The US–China AI Arms Race Isn't Real But The Lobbying Is. My Guest Worked Both Sides.

I am shocked by how much of a barrier I am shocked by how much of a barrier that sense of willingness is like I that sense of willingness is like I that sense of willingness is like I talked to a lot of folks in the business talked to a lot of folks in the business talked to a lot of folks in the business um in enterprises and they're like um in enterprises and they're like um in enterprises and they're like I don't like my engineers care about I don't like my engineers care about I don't like my engineers care about codeex that's fine for them I'm not codeex that's fine for them I'm not codeex that's fine for them I'm not going to make everyone a coder in my going to make everyone a coder in my going to make everyone a coder in my company company company >> I have other things to do with my >> I have other things to do with my >> I have other things to do with my business when you look at the next 10 business when you look at the next 10 business when you look at the next 10 years or so paint me I guess maybe paint years or so paint me I guess maybe paint years or so paint me I guess maybe paint me two paths right paint me the happy me two paths right paint me the happy me two paths right paint me the happy path where you're like okay we're going path where you're like okay we're going path where you're like okay we're going to get to a society that's more to get to a society that's more to get to a society that's more functioning and then maybe paint me a functioning and then maybe paint me a functioning and then maybe paint me a darker path darker path darker path >> yeah I mean, nobody won the electricity >> yeah I mean, nobody won the electricity >> yeah I mean, nobody won the electricity race, right? [laughter] race, right? [laughter] race, right? [laughter] >> We all got electricity. >> We all got electricity. >> We all got electricity. >> Yes. And but that to me is scary because >> Yes. And but that to me is scary because >> Yes. And but that to me is scary because if your stuff is that good, why the heck if your stuff is that good, why the heck if your stuff is that good, why the heck do you need, you know, do you need, you know, do you need, you know, >> that much lobbying? No, it's already >> that much lobbying? No, it's already >> that much lobbying? No, it's already here. here. here. >> Sounds like the AI that we're creating. >> Sounds like the AI that we're creating. >> Sounds like the AI that we're creating. Essentially, we don't need to depend on Essentially, we don't need to depend on Essentially, we don't need to depend on the kindness of an alien species. We are the kindness of an alien species. We are the kindness of an alien species. We are creating our only alien species. creating our only alien species. creating our only alien species. >> We are. I've got something really >> We are. I've got something really >> We are. I've got something really special for today's video. I've been special for today's video. I've been special for today's video. I've been trying to find someone who can talk trying to find someone who can talk trying to find someone who can talk about US, China, AI without picking a about US, China, AI without picking a about US, China, AI without picking a side, and I found it. Alvin Grlin has side, and I found it. Alvin Grlin has side, and I found it. Alvin Grlin has been in AI all the way back to 1990 on been in AI all the way back to 1990 on been in AI all the way back to 1990 on both sides of the Pacific. He has both sides of the Pacific. He has both sides of the Pacific. He has perspective I haven't seen anywhere perspective I haven't seen anywhere perspective I haven't seen anywhere else. He tells me the arms race isn't else. He tells me the arms race isn't else. He tells me the arms race isn't real. That's right. So stay tuned. This real. That's right. So stay tuned. This real. That's right. So stay tuned. This is going to be a fun one.

is going to be a fun one. is going to be a fun one. >> So Alvin, this is the first time that >> So Alvin, this is the first time that >> So Alvin, this is the first time that you're on the podcast here. Maybe start you're on the podcast here. Maybe start you're on the podcast here. Maybe start off by just telling us who you are, how off by just telling us who you are, how off by just telling us who you are, how you got into AI, um kind of where you're you got into AI, um kind of where you're you got into AI, um kind of where you're at right now. at right now. at right now. >> Um sure. Yeah. Thanks for inviting me. >> Um sure. Yeah. Thanks for inviting me. >> Um sure. Yeah. Thanks for inviting me. And so I've been you know in tech since And so I've been you know in tech since And so I've been you know in tech since uh 1980 uh 1980 uh 1980 >> um and uh you know been coding since >> um and uh you know been coding since >> um and uh you know been coding since then. I started doing AI in 1990 911. Uh then. I started doing AI in 1990 911. Uh then. I started doing AI in 1990 911. Uh I was doing neural networks uh I was doing neural networks uh I was doing neural networks uh controlling creating my own bread boards controlling creating my own bread boards controlling creating my own bread boards and doing natural language processing and doing natural language processing and doing natural language processing and have essentially worked through the and have essentially worked through the and have essentially worked through the entire AI stack everything from data entire AI stack everything from data entire AI stack everything from data centers to chip design to to devices to centers to chip design to to devices to centers to chip design to to devices to apps uh models. Um so I I've seen a few apps uh models. Um so I I've seen a few apps uh models. Um so I I've seen a few things happen and you know in fact I things happen and you know in fact I things happen and you know in fact I worked on when I was at Intel I worked worked on when I was at Intel I worked worked on when I was at Intel I worked on the chip [snorts] um that was the on the chip [snorts] um that was the on the chip [snorts] um that was the first single instruction multi-data SIMD first single instruction multi-data SIMD first single instruction multi-data SIMD which is what GPUs are based on. It was which is what GPUs are based on. It was which is what GPUs are based on. It was called MMX at the [laughter] time. So called MMX at the [laughter] time. So called MMX at the [laughter] time. So >> MMX we worked on both both sides of the >> MMX we worked on both both sides of the >> MMX we worked on both both sides of the Pacific. I studied uh at University Pacific. I studied uh at University Pacific. I studied uh at University Washington also I did my computer Washington also I did my computer Washington also I did my computer science at MIT and my MBA at MIT science at MIT and my MBA at MIT science at MIT and my MBA at MIT recently and now I've essentially moved recently and now I've essentially moved recently and now I've essentially moved from industry to more academia. I'm from industry to more academia. I'm from industry to more academia. I'm doing research at at Stanford uh the at doing research at at Stanford uh the at doing research at at Stanford uh the at the HAI human center AI institute and the HAI human center AI institute and the HAI human center AI institute and then also at I'm teaching here at UDub then also at I'm teaching here at UDub then also at I'm teaching here at UDub and I I'll be starting in the winter but and I I'll be starting in the winter but and I I'll be starting in the winter but in AI and technology policy and then I in AI and technology policy and then I in AI and technology policy and then I um um um >> work at a think tank in DC uh advising >> work at a think tank in DC uh advising >> work at a think tank in DC uh advising our governments on making some better our governments on making some better our governments on making some better policy decisions around AI and policy decisions around AI and policy decisions around AI and technology. So technology. So technology. So >> in that world, what do you think is the >> in that world, what do you think is the >> in that world, what do you think is the biggest misconception that people have

biggest misconception that people have biggest misconception that people have around AI that you spend a lot of time around AI that you spend a lot of time around AI that you spend a lot of time and a lot of breath sort of trying to and a lot of breath sort of trying to and a lot of breath sort of trying to diffuse or change perspectives on? I I diffuse or change perspectives on? I I diffuse or change perspectives on? I I think the the biggest problem in fact think the the biggest problem in fact think the the biggest problem in fact probably the core problem that is probably the core problem that is probably the core problem that is driving a lot of bad decisions right now driving a lot of bad decisions right now driving a lot of bad decisions right now is this misperception of this AI arms is this misperception of this AI arms is this misperception of this AI arms race race race >> u and the the expectation that there's a >> u and the the expectation that there's a >> u and the the expectation that there's a finish line that there is a single finish line that there is a single finish line that there is a single winner the winner takes all and that the winner the winner takes all and that the winner the winner takes all and that the world is zero sum and none of that is world is zero sum and none of that is world is zero sum and none of that is true true true >> right and I think when people wake up >> right and I think when people wake up >> right and I think when people wake up and finally understand these none of and finally understand these none of and finally understand these none of those are true then everything that those are true then everything that those are true then everything that we've been doing um whether from an we've been doing um whether from an we've been doing um whether from an industry perspective or from a national industry perspective or from a national industry perspective or from a national security perspective um is really security perspective um is really security perspective um is really misallocation of resources. The misallocation of resources. The misallocation of resources. The competitive nature also is preventing us competitive nature also is preventing us competitive nature also is preventing us from making these products and these from making these products and these from making these products and these technologies more safe. >> Yeah. I mean nobody won the electricity >> Yeah. I mean nobody won the electricity race, right? We all got electricity race, right? We all got electricity race, right? We all got electricity >> and and I in a lot of ways this is what >> and and I in a lot of ways this is what >> and and I in a lot of ways this is what this what you know you can't keep people this what you know you can't keep people this what you know you can't keep people from having electricity and you can't from having electricity and you can't from having electricity and you can't keep people from having AI. It's just keep people from having AI. It's just keep people from having AI. It's just it's software and software wants to be it's software and software wants to be it's software and software wants to be free. Software wants to be everywhere.

free. Software wants to be everywhere. free. Software wants to be everywhere. Software is is you know impossible to to Software is is you know impossible to to Software is is you know impossible to to prevent it from being distributed prevent it from being distributed prevent it from being distributed especially when we start having now you especially when we start having now you especially when we start having now you know open source or openweight software know open source or openweight software know open source or openweight software that that that >> that's right >> that's right >> that's right >> it's completely open source. It's tiny. >> it's completely open source. It's tiny. >> it's completely open source. It's tiny. It has a a new architecture that is It has a a new architecture that is It has a a new architecture that is actually now can you know run on a Mac actually now can you know run on a Mac actually now can you know run on a Mac studio studio studio >> whereas these other closed source >> whereas these other closed source >> whereas these other closed source devices or closed source models are devices or closed source models are devices or closed source models are running on multiple racks right and each running on multiple racks right and each running on multiple racks right and each rack is millions of dollars rack is millions of dollars rack is millions of dollars >> so this commoditizes high quality >> so this commoditizes high quality >> so this commoditizes high quality intelligence and you know I don't think intelligence and you know I don't think intelligence and you know I don't think that's a bad thing no that's a bad thing no that's a bad thing no >> right except maybe for a couple >> right except maybe for a couple >> right except maybe for a couple companies who are relying on high profit companies who are relying on high profit companies who are relying on high profit margins from this uh everybody else it's margins from this uh everybody else it's margins from this uh everybody else it's good for good for good for >> that's right. I I believe in a future >> that's right. I I believe in a future >> that's right. I I believe in a future where intelligence is ambient where intelligence is ambient where intelligence is ambient >> everywhere >> everywhere >> everywhere >> essentially free >> essentially free >> essentially free >> and now it's able to run on a you know >> and now it's able to run on a you know >> and now it's able to run on a you know PC essentially a Mac studio and another PC essentially a Mac studio and another PC essentially a Mac studio and another few months somebody's going to quantize few months somebody's going to quantize few months somebody's going to quantize it and then it's going to run on a it and then it's going to run on a it and then it's going to run on a laptop a laptop and then another three laptop a laptop and then another three laptop a laptop and then another three four six months from there it's going to four six months from there it's going to four six months from there it's going to run on our phones and the level of run on our phones and the level of run on our phones and the level of intelligence we have in these systems is intelligence we have in these systems is intelligence we have in these systems is already amazing. It's more than most already amazing. It's more than most already amazing. It's more than most people can use most of the time.

people can use most of the time. people can use most of the time. >> That's right. And so that's the case. It >> That's right. And so that's the case. It >> That's right. And so that's the case. It will be ambient. It will be everywhere. will be ambient. It will be everywhere. will be ambient. It will be everywhere. And you know it cannot be hoarded or And you know it cannot be hoarded or And you know it cannot be hoarded or monopolized which you know a few monopolized which you know a few monopolized which you know a few companies want to do but it's it's kind companies want to do but it's it's kind companies want to do but it's it's kind of against the macro forces of nature. of against the macro forces of nature. of against the macro forces of nature. >> That's and then the question is going to >> That's and then the question is going to >> That's and then the question is going to become you have the intelligence what do become you have the intelligence what do become you have the intelligence what do you do with it? you do with it? you do with it? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And that's really the question all of us >> And that's really the question all of us >> And that's really the question all of us are going to face to a different degree. are going to face to a different degree. are going to face to a different degree. >> And this goes back to what you said >> And this goes back to what you said >> And this goes back to what you said earlier is do we use it to as a weapon earlier is do we use it to as a weapon earlier is do we use it to as a weapon or do we use it as something that or do we use it as something that or do we use it as something that creates betterment of society? Do we creates betterment of society? Do we creates betterment of society? Do we allow it to help us find new materials, allow it to help us find new materials, allow it to help us find new materials, you know, new new ways to be conserving you know, new new ways to be conserving you know, new new ways to be conserving energy? Uh, you know, better ways to energy? Uh, you know, better ways to energy? Uh, you know, better ways to educate our children or or diagnose, you educate our children or or diagnose, you educate our children or or diagnose, you know, just diseases, right? And and you know, just diseases, right? And and you know, just diseases, right? And and you know, I I was just in China a couple know, I I was just in China a couple know, I I was just in China a couple months ago and talking to one of the the months ago and talking to one of the the months ago and talking to one of the the leading drug discovery companies and leading drug discovery companies and leading drug discovery companies and they said, "Yeah, we're we're using AI they said, "Yeah, we're we're using AI they said, "Yeah, we're we're using AI all the time, but we're not using the 10 all the time, but we're not using the 10 all the time, but we're not using the 10 trillion parameter model. we're using a trillion parameter model. we're using a trillion parameter model. we're using a 10 billion parameter model specialized 10 billion parameter model specialized 10 billion parameter model specialized for whatever disease that we're working for whatever disease that we're working for whatever disease that we're working on. And so this this is where I think a on. And so this this is where I think a on. And so this this is where I think a lot the other mistake that people have lot the other mistake that people have lot the other mistake that people have or misconception is that they think you or misconception is that they think you or misconception is that they think you know the race is to make the biggest know the race is to make the biggest know the race is to make the biggest model the most super AI model that's the model the most super AI model that's the model the most super AI model that's the one that can you know cure cancer or can we make use of the efficiencies or can we make use of the efficiencies that are coming out every pay

that are coming out every pay that are coming out every pay to make better use of what we already to make better use of what we already to make better use of what we already have and then take some of the money have and then take some of the money have and then take some of the money that we're putting into data centers and that we're putting into data centers and that we're putting into data centers and put it into, you know, better hospitals put it into, you know, better hospitals put it into, you know, better hospitals and better better roads and better power and better better roads and better power and better better roads and better power plants and all these things that we we plants and all these things that we we plants and all these things that we we need as a society. And that feels like need as a society. And that feels like need as a society. And that feels like it's a overconentration and over relian it's a overconentration and over relian it's a overconentration and over relian in one particular area. And if it does in one particular area. And if it does in one particular area. And if it does happen to uh not be realized in terms of happen to uh not be realized in terms of happen to uh not be realized in terms of profitability of what people are profitability of what people are profitability of what people are expecting, then how do you pay back expecting, then how do you pay back expecting, then how do you pay back these uh these investments? And in fact, these uh these investments? And in fact, these uh these investments? And in fact, I think it was maybe a couple weeks ago, I think it was maybe a couple weeks ago, I think it was maybe a couple weeks ago, Wall Street Journal came out with an Wall Street Journal came out with an Wall Street Journal came out with an article that showed somewhere around $3 article that showed somewhere around $3 article that showed somewhere around $3 trillion of offthe-book debts and trillion of offthe-book debts and trillion of offthe-book debts and obligations of just the top hyperscalers obligations of just the top hyperscalers obligations of just the top hyperscalers in America. During the the height of the in America. During the the height of the in America. During the the height of the subprime bubble, uh there was $1.6 6 subprime bubble, uh there was $1.6 6 subprime bubble, uh there was $1.6 6 trillion of subprime debt. I feel like trillion of subprime debt. I feel like trillion of subprime debt. I feel like uh we're really uh we're really uh we're really >> shooting ourselves in the foot a little >> shooting ourselves in the foot a little >> shooting ourselves in the foot a little bit and making the economy super bit and making the economy super bit and making the economy super fragile. This this is what scares me fragile. This this is what scares me fragile. This this is what scares me today today today >> and this is what I try to >> and this is what I try to >> and this is what I try to >> talk to policy makers about to help them >> talk to policy makers about to help them >> talk to policy makers about to help them understand. Not to mention the potential understand. Not to mention the potential understand. Not to mention the potential um displacement issues and you know I um displacement issues and you know I um displacement issues and you know I don't know if we completely agree on don't know if we completely agree on don't know if we completely agree on kind of how quickly that happens and kind of how quickly that happens and kind of how quickly that happens and where it will happen and how quickly it where it will happen and how quickly it where it will happen and how quickly it gets resolved.

gets resolved. gets resolved. >> And there's essentially no safety social >> And there's essentially no safety social >> And there's essentially no safety social safety net in America. You know there safety net in America. You know there safety net in America. You know there there's a little bit of unemployment but there's a little bit of unemployment but there's a little bit of unemployment but it runs out pretty quickly and it's not it runs out pretty quickly and it's not it runs out pretty quickly and it's not enough to to help you live. Um and that enough to to help you live. Um and that enough to to help you live. Um and that you know the we're already seeing that you know the we're already seeing that you know the we're already seeing that today in fact with uh young people uh today in fact with uh young people uh today in fact with uh young people uh based on a a Stanford study that's you based on a a Stanford study that's you based on a a Stanford study that's you know been came out last year they know been came out last year they know been came out last year they refreshed it and the trend continues. refreshed it and the trend continues. refreshed it and the trend continues. It's something around a 19% difference It's something around a 19% difference It's something around a 19% difference for 20 to 25 year olds uh in terms of for 20 to 25 year olds uh in terms of for 20 to 25 year olds uh in terms of their you know uh payroll numbers versus their you know uh payroll numbers versus their you know uh payroll numbers versus what they should be compared to other what they should be compared to other what they should be compared to other age groups. And so it feels like for for age groups. And so it feels like for for age groups. And so it feels like for for you know AI exposed industries young you know AI exposed industries young you know AI exposed industries young people is the first to see the potential people is the first to see the potential people is the first to see the potential damage percent. So whereas you know the damage percent. So whereas you know the damage percent. So whereas you know the the senior people continue to to to to the senior people continue to to to to the senior people continue to to to to ramp as the original rates. So it feels ramp as the original rates. So it feels ramp as the original rates. So it feels like it's the like it's the like it's the >> senior people are just cutting young >> senior people are just cutting young >> senior people are just cutting young people. They're like or or they're just people. They're like or or they're just people. They're like or or they're just not hiring. That's the other thing. They not hiring. That's the other thing. They not hiring. That's the other thing. They either don't hire or they lay off the either don't hire or they lay off the either don't hire or they lay off the young people because they feel like you young people because they feel like you young people because they feel like you know we don't really need them because know we don't really need them because know we don't really need them because AI can do a lot of what they used to do.

AI can do a lot of what they used to do. AI can do a lot of what they used to do. So, I'm curious if we put that data So, I'm curious if we put that data So, I'm curious if we put that data together because I've seen that study as together because I've seen that study as together because I've seen that study as well. I've certainly talked with a lot well. I've certainly talked with a lot well. I've certainly talked with a lot of folks who are Gen Z and who are of folks who are Gen Z and who are of folks who are Gen Z and who are really feeling the pinch. really feeling the pinch. really feeling the pinch. >> Um, >> Um, >> Um, how do you put that next to the data we how do you put that next to the data we how do you put that next to the data we get from companies like Stripe that are get from companies like Stripe that are get from companies like Stripe that are showing this skyrocketing rate of showing this skyrocketing rate of showing this skyrocketing rate of business creation? Entrepreneurship is business creation? Entrepreneurship is business creation? Entrepreneurship is on the rise. on the rise. on the rise. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> What is what does that picture look like >> What is what does that picture look like >> What is what does that picture look like as a composite to you? I think if you go as a composite to you? I think if you go as a composite to you? I think if you go and look at what happened in 98 to 2000 and look at what happened in 98 to 2000 and look at what happened in 98 to 2000 in terms of job increases, in terms of job increases, in terms of job increases, >> right? Uh remember when when HTML coders >> right? Uh remember when when HTML coders >> right? Uh remember when when HTML coders who had a oneweek training course could who had a oneweek training course could who had a oneweek training course could get a six-figure salary. get a six-figure salary. get a six-figure salary. >> Oh yeah. >> Oh yeah. >> Oh yeah. >> Right. But you know if you look at what >> Right. But you know if you look at what >> Right. But you know if you look at what happened in 2001 to 2005, most of those happened in 2001 to 2005, most of those happened in 2001 to 2005, most of those jobs went away. jobs went away. jobs went away. >> Right. So it's not that it's not that um >> Right. So it's not that it's not that um >> Right. So it's not that it's not that um that there isn't a need. there is a need that there isn't a need. there is a need that there isn't a need. there is a need because you know right now something because you know right now something because you know right now something only about 20% of companies have only about 20% of companies have only about 20% of companies have actually adopted AI and probably only 5% actually adopted AI and probably only 5% actually adopted AI and probably only 5% have done it well have done it well have done it well >> you know so so there is room for people >> you know so so there is room for people >> you know so so there is room for people to take AI and integrate it into society to take AI and integrate it into society to take AI and integrate it into society so into into their their business so into into their their business so into into their their business workflow workflow workflow so a lot of them haven't been able to u so a lot of them haven't been able to u so a lot of them haven't been able to u to extract the value yet and so they to extract the value yet and so they to extract the value yet and so they haven't done the the the layoffs but haven't done the the the layoffs but haven't done the the the layoffs but then the companies who are helping then the companies who are helping then the companies who are helping enable it you know dare to pick on enable it you know dare to pick on enable it you know dare to pick on shovels guys so of they're the ones that shovels guys so of they're the ones that shovels guys so of they're the ones that are going to see the first boom is are going to see the first boom is are going to see the first boom is actually in fact if you look at the the actually in fact if you look at the the actually in fact if you look at the the uh stock market value versus net net uh stock market value versus net net uh stock market value versus net net payrolls overall actually the net pay

payrolls overall actually the net pay payrolls overall actually the net pay payrolls have been coming down uh payrolls have been coming down uh payrolls have been coming down uh consistently since 2023. consistently since 2023. consistently since 2023. >> So total payroll in America has been >> So total payroll in America has been >> So total payroll in America has been going like this. The stock market has going like this. The stock market has going like this. The stock market has been going like this. This is the first been going like this. This is the first been going like this. This is the first time ever where the the payroll and time ever where the the payroll and time ever where the the payroll and stock markets do not move together. stock markets do not move together. stock markets do not move together. >> Yeah. And I think that that's actually a >> Yeah. And I think that that's actually a >> Yeah. And I think that that's actually a bigger sign of of of a real issue is bigger sign of of of a real issue is bigger sign of of of a real issue is that you know and and labor that you know and and labor that you know and and labor participation has continued to go down. participation has continued to go down. participation has continued to go down. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's pre AI that >> Yeah. Yeah. That's pre AI that >> Yeah. Yeah. That's pre AI that >> that's prei but this continues >> that's prei but this continues >> that's prei but this continues essentially. It's just it's just a sign essentially. It's just it's just a sign essentially. It's just it's just a sign of automation, right? Automation of automation, right? Automation of automation, right? Automation happening across all areas whether in happening across all areas whether in happening across all areas whether in manufacturing or in in in um in the manufacturing or in in in um in the manufacturing or in in in um in the white collar work. white collar work. white collar work. >> So with that context in mind, what do >> So with that context in mind, what do >> So with that context in mind, what do you tell young people when you talk with you tell young people when you talk with you tell young people when you talk with them? You're teaching students like them? You're teaching students like them? You're teaching students like these are genzers now in college. these are genzers now in college. these are genzers now in college. >> Yeah. Like it's tough cuz cuz honestly >> Yeah. Like it's tough cuz cuz honestly >> Yeah. Like it's tough cuz cuz honestly even at schools like MIT and and even at schools like MIT and and even at schools like MIT and and Stanford and Udub which are all really Stanford and Udub which are all really Stanford and Udub which are all really good schools, kids are having tough good schools, kids are having tough good schools, kids are having tough times. They're having tough times just times. They're having tough times just times. They're having tough times just even finding and what I generally tell even finding and what I generally tell even finding and what I generally tell them is don't focus on the job that you them is don't focus on the job that you them is don't focus on the job that you think you're going to get. Try to get as think you're going to get. Try to get as think you're going to get. Try to get as broad a experience set as you can.

broad a experience set as you can. broad a experience set as you can. create a a Tbased experience set create a a Tbased experience set create a a Tbased experience set >> as in know a lot of things and then one >> as in know a lot of things and then one >> as in know a lot of things and then one thing really well where you've actually thing really well where you've actually thing really well where you've actually built something built something built something >> right not not where you just you know >> right not not where you just you know >> right not not where you just you know get to a certain thin level because when get to a certain thin level because when get to a certain thin level because when you've actually gone through the process you've actually gone through the process you've actually gone through the process of designing building deploying and then of designing building deploying and then of designing building deploying and then maybe even you know taking end of life maybe even you know taking end of life maybe even you know taking end of life something you know how things are done something you know how things are done something you know how things are done in the real world whether it doesn't in the real world whether it doesn't in the real world whether it doesn't matter what industry you're in matter what industry you're in matter what industry you're in >> you know go through that entire process >> you know go through that entire process >> you know go through that entire process and and even if you have to work for and and even if you have to work for and and even if you have to work for free. Go give them your volunteer time free. Go give them your volunteer time free. Go give them your volunteer time for the summer or whatever time after for the summer or whatever time after for the summer or whatever time after school to to learn that process of school to to learn that process of school to to learn that process of actually going through entire life actually going through entire life actually going through entire life cycles. Uh and then go, you know, read cycles. Uh and then go, you know, read cycles. Uh and then go, you know, read history and philosophy and and um history and philosophy and and um history and philosophy and and um psychology and sociology and management psychology and sociology and management psychology and sociology and management and all these other things that are and all these other things that are and all these other things that are needed for you to actually have a breath needed for you to actually have a breath needed for you to actually have a breath of understanding so that you can connect of understanding so that you can connect of understanding so that you can connect connect points together. And I think connect points together. And I think connect points together. And I think that's something that unfortunately our that's something that unfortunately our that's something that unfortunately our education system has kind of uh taken education system has kind of uh taken education system has kind of uh taken away in the sense of we we've been asked away in the sense of we we've been asked away in the sense of we we've been asked to specialize. And right now if you to specialize. And right now if you to specialize. And right now if you specialize then you really add very specialize then you really add very specialize then you really add very little value over what AI's can can little value over what AI's can can little value over what AI's can can provide. And you know even if you get an provide. And you know even if you get an provide. And you know even if you get an answer back from the there's no way for answer back from the there's no way for answer back from the there's no way for you to really judge it and and critique you to really judge it and and critique you to really judge it and and critique it. So you just accept it. And if that's it. So you just accept it. And if that's it. So you just accept it. And if that's the case why are you even there? There's the case why are you even there? There's the case why are you even there? There's no no no >> you're the rapper over the AI.

>> you're the rapper over the AI. >> you're the rapper over the AI. >> Yeah. you're you're the rapper over it. >> Yeah. you're you're the rapper over it. >> Yeah. you're you're the rapper over it. And in fact, some people say then you And in fact, some people say then you And in fact, some people say then you become actually a negative value to the become actually a negative value to the become actually a negative value to the company because they're just paying you company because they're just paying you company because they're just paying you to then just rubber stamp something that to then just rubber stamp something that to then just rubber stamp something that the AI did and eventually people will the AI did and eventually people will the AI did and eventually people will figure that out figure that out figure that out >> and and you're not there anymore. >> and and you're not there anymore. >> and and you're not there anymore. >> That's right. No, that lines up a lot >> That's right. No, that lines up a lot >> That's right. No, that lines up a lot with what I have both seen practically with what I have both seen practically with what I have both seen practically in companies and also talk with young in companies and also talk with young in companies and also talk with young folks about. It's that you need you need folks about. It's that you need you need folks about. It's that you need you need the ability to both rapidly coalesce and the ability to both rapidly coalesce and the ability to both rapidly coalesce and pattern form across a really wide body pattern form across a really wide body pattern form across a really wide body of experience. So that's that wide of experience. So that's that wide of experience. So that's that wide reading you talked about, but then you reading you talked about, but then you reading you talked about, but then you also need to have a fairly deep also need to have a fairly deep also need to have a fairly deep understanding of how to build something understanding of how to build something understanding of how to build something uh set it live, optimize it, and then to uh set it live, optimize it, and then to uh set it live, optimize it, and then to your point, sunset it and turn over and your point, sunset it and turn over and your point, sunset it and turn over and take those learnings somewhere. Um and take those learnings somewhere. Um and take those learnings somewhere. Um and and the the work that we're seeing that and the the work that we're seeing that and the the work that we're seeing that is a trend that persists sort of is a trend that persists sort of is a trend that persists sort of regardless of how smart the models get regardless of how smart the models get regardless of how smart the models get is work in that space. It's that very is work in that space. It's that very is work in that space. It's that very highdimensional high connection kind of highdimensional high connection kind of highdimensional high connection kind of work. I think that the street smarts work. I think that the street smarts work. I think that the street smarts experience tends to add more value. It's experience tends to add more value. It's experience tends to add more value. It's sort of like the joke that you want to sort of like the joke that you want to sort of like the joke that you want to get to your second startup as fast as get to your second startup as fast as get to your second startup as fast as you can cuz you're going to mess up your you can cuz you're going to mess up your you can cuz you're going to mess up your first startup real bad and that's the first startup real bad and that's the first startup real bad and that's the learning startup learning startup learning startup >> or or your first startup go learn with >> or or your first startup go learn with >> or or your first startup go learn with somebody who've actually done it instead somebody who've actually done it instead somebody who've actually done it instead of making all the same mistakes of making all the same mistakes of making all the same mistakes yourself. That's I I prefer that because yourself. That's I I prefer that because yourself. That's I I prefer that because not everybody needs to be a CEO.

not everybody needs to be a CEO. not everybody needs to be a CEO. >> No, not it's not everybody is qualified >> No, not it's not everybody is qualified >> No, not it's not everybody is qualified or should be a CEO. or should be a CEO. or should be a CEO. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> No, it's it's I often say that like if >> No, it's it's I often say that like if >> No, it's it's I often say that like if if you aspire to that then you're Yes. if you aspire to that then you're Yes. if you aspire to that then you're Yes. There's all of these leadership There's all of these leadership There's all of these leadership qualities people talk about, but the qualities people talk about, but the qualities people talk about, but the capacity to just eat glass for a long capacity to just eat glass for a long capacity to just eat glass for a long period of time needs to be off the period of time needs to be off the period of time needs to be off the charts. charts. charts. >> Yeah. And this is I think one of the >> Yeah. And this is I think one of the >> Yeah. And this is I think one of the things that young people particularly in things that young people particularly in things that young people particularly in America is missing is that they've been America is missing is that they've been America is missing is that they've been so pampered I think by and I I do the so pampered I think by and I I do the so pampered I think by and I I do the same for my kids. So I I you know I am same for my kids. So I I you know I am same for my kids. So I I you know I am at the same fault. I feel like, you at the same fault. I feel like, you at the same fault. I feel like, you know, they they grew up in such a nice know, they they grew up in such a nice know, they they grew up in such a nice time, time, time, >> such a peaceful time when everything >> such a peaceful time when everything >> such a peaceful time when everything just kept growing and they had just kept growing and they had just kept growing and they had everything they wanted everything they wanted everything they wanted >> and they never suffered. You know, I >> and they never suffered. You know, I >> and they never suffered. You know, I come from kind of the Asian Yeah. come from kind of the Asian Yeah. come from kind of the Asian Yeah. >> culture and and that is actually one of >> culture and and that is actually one of >> culture and and that is actually one of the sayings is it's true cool is eating the sayings is it's true cool is eating the sayings is it's true cool is eating bitter is is a sign of of growth is that bitter is is a sign of of growth is that bitter is is a sign of of growth is that you have to learn how to eat bitter. you have to learn how to eat bitter. you have to learn how to eat bitter. >> So, so I feel like um kids these days, >> So, so I feel like um kids these days, >> So, so I feel like um kids these days, if you know, especially ones that if you know, especially ones that if you know, especially ones that haven't traveled internationally, they haven't traveled internationally, they haven't traveled internationally, they don't know how the rest of the world don't know how the rest of the world don't know how the rest of the world lives. I no it it really rings true for lives. I no it it really rings true for lives. I no it it really rings true for me because I remember um back in the 90s me because I remember um back in the 90s me because I remember um back in the 90s I was in Indonesia and Indonesia was I was in Indonesia and Indonesia was I was in Indonesia and Indonesia was going through that Asian economic growth going through that Asian economic growth going through that Asian economic growth miracle phase um and I saw how miracle phase um and I saw how miracle phase um and I saw how >> people were sacrificing to put their >> people were sacrificing to put their >> people were sacrificing to put their kids into school. People were kids into school. People were kids into school. People were sacrificing to get to Jakarta to get a sacrificing to get to Jakarta to get a sacrificing to get to Jakarta to get a job.

job. job. >> People were overtime the households were >> People were overtime the households were >> People were overtime the households were going from on average they don't have a going from on average they don't have a going from on average they don't have a TV, on average they don't have a TV, on average they don't have a TV, on average they don't have a motorcycle, on average they can't have motorcycle, on average they can't have motorcycle, on average they can't have chicken more than maybe once a week. And chicken more than maybe once a week. And chicken more than maybe once a week. And now all of a sudden all those things are now all of a sudden all those things are now all of a sudden all those things are starting to come through because the starting to come through because the starting to come through because the economy as a whole is starting to economy as a whole is starting to economy as a whole is starting to respond to the efforts of all of these respond to the efforts of all of these respond to the efforts of all of these individuals to better themselves. individuals to better themselves. individuals to better themselves. >> Yeah. Yeah. And you know, humans are >> Yeah. Yeah. And you know, humans are >> Yeah. Yeah. And you know, humans are very resilient animals. We we've done very resilient animals. We we've done very resilient animals. We we've done amazing things if we work together, amazing things if we work together, amazing things if we work together, right? And we're not having wars. That right? And we're not having wars. That right? And we're not having wars. That that helps. that helps. that helps. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, so there is a peace dividend >> You know, so there is a peace dividend >> You know, so there is a peace dividend and it feels like we're we're kind of and it feels like we're we're kind of and it feels like we're we're kind of going backwards in the last few years. going backwards in the last few years. going backwards in the last few years. And I think that that sense of And I think that that sense of And I think that that sense of resilience is part of what makes me, you resilience is part of what makes me, you resilience is part of what makes me, you know, I don't know what the future know, I don't know what the future know, I don't know what the future holds, but it makes me hopeful because holds, but it makes me hopeful because holds, but it makes me hopeful because as a species, we have shown over and as a species, we have shown over and as a species, we have shown over and over again that we have an ability to over again that we have an ability to over again that we have an ability to look at a new challenge, look at the look at a new challenge, look at the look at a new challenge, look at the tools that we have and say, well, how do tools that we have and say, well, how do tools that we have and say, well, how do we respond to this differently? we respond to this differently? we respond to this differently? >> I I on [sighs and gasps] a on the long >> I I on [sighs and gasps] a on the long >> I I on [sighs and gasps] a on the long term, I'm fully in agreement with you. I term, I'm fully in agreement with you. I term, I'm fully in agreement with you. I feel like in the short term, humans feel like in the short term, humans feel like in the short term, humans don't change unless they see a crisis. don't change unless they see a crisis. don't change unless they see a crisis. >> Yeah. My my only question is how big of >> Yeah. My my only question is how big of >> Yeah. My my only question is how big of a crisis do we need for people to wake a crisis do we need for people to wake a crisis do we need for people to wake up and change their ways?

up and change their ways? up and change their ways? >> What are some like if we go below the >> What are some like if we go below the >> What are some like if we go below the level of okay, let's suppose that we level of okay, let's suppose that we level of okay, let's suppose that we should wave our magic wands and now should wave our magic wands and now should wave our magic wands and now we're going to cooperate. What are some we're going to cooperate. What are some we're going to cooperate. What are some of the things that you think are really of the things that you think are really of the things that you think are really important to get agreement on important to get agreement on important to get agreement on internationally that go to that next internationally that go to that next internationally that go to that next second or third level um in the AI second or third level um in the AI second or third level um in the AI space? Uh I mean you know I think when space? Uh I mean you know I think when space? Uh I mean you know I think when we talk about this this is really right we talk about this this is really right we talk about this this is really right now a USChina race right that's now a USChina race right that's now a USChina race right that's happening and what's already happening happening and what's already happening happening and what's already happening in terms of discussion is the the AI in terms of discussion is the the AI in terms of discussion is the the AI side which you know I I was lucky to side which you know I I was lucky to side which you know I I was lucky to have participated in part of that kind have participated in part of that kind have participated in part of that kind of early prep for that and of early prep for that and of early prep for that and >> I I think that's probably the the place >> I I think that's probably the the place >> I I think that's probably the the place to start to start to start >> and and because that is a shared risk >> and and because that is a shared risk >> and and because that is a shared risk >> and we have a shared interest you know >> and we have a shared interest you know >> and we have a shared interest you know even in in the the height of the cold even in in the the height of the cold even in in the the height of the cold war the US and the USSR got together and war the US and the USSR got together and war the US and the USSR got together and said Hey, you know what? Maybe we said Hey, you know what? Maybe we said Hey, you know what? Maybe we shouldn't be building that many new shouldn't be building that many new shouldn't be building that many new ballistic missiles anymore. Having 70 ballistic missiles anymore. Having 70 ballistic missiles anymore. Having 70 80,000 is probably enough to blow up the 80,000 is probably enough to blow up the 80,000 is probably enough to blow up the world a few dozen times. world a few dozen times. world a few dozen times. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um, let's actually start to reduce that. >> Um, let's actually start to reduce that. >> Um, let's actually start to reduce that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And you know, and that's with a weapon >> And you know, and that's with a weapon >> And you know, and that's with a weapon that was only a weapon. That a that was only a weapon. That a that was only a weapon. That a technology that was only a weapon, we technology that was only a weapon, we technology that was only a weapon, we have even more incentive to keep it safe have even more incentive to keep it safe have even more incentive to keep it safe so that the civilian benefits can so that the civilian benefits can so that the civilian benefits can actually then acrue to our society. So, actually then acrue to our society. So, actually then acrue to our society. So, so if we can a agree on, you know, uh so if we can a agree on, you know, uh so if we can a agree on, you know, uh safety standards, if we can agree on uh safety standards, if we can agree on uh safety standards, if we can agree on uh communication of of uh protocol for when communication of of uh protocol for when communication of of uh protocol for when incidents happen, when bad things happen incidents happen, when bad things happen incidents happen, when bad things happen and and have that kind of, you know, red and and have that kind of, you know, red and and have that kind of, you know, red phone red phone hotline. [laughter] I phone red phone hotline. [laughter] I phone red phone hotline. [laughter] I mean, no, no, it worked cuz there was a mean, no, no, it worked cuz there was a mean, no, no, it worked cuz there was a few times where I was like, was that a few times where I was like, was that a few times where I was like, was that a missile or is that a satellite coming missile or is that a satellite coming missile or is that a satellite coming down?

down? down? >> Make a call here and that will be a big >> Make a call here and that will be a big >> Make a call here and that will be a big deal. It saves the world to make a call. deal. It saves the world to make a call. deal. It saves the world to make a call. >> It's a lot cheaper to make a call than >> It's a lot cheaper to make a call than >> It's a lot cheaper to make a call than to send a missile and then try to uh to send a missile and then try to uh to send a missile and then try to uh explain it after. explain it after. explain it after. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> Right. So I mean these are the kind of >> Right. So I mean these are the kind of >> Right. So I mean these are the kind of things that feels like hey you know what things that feels like hey you know what things that feels like hey you know what we should just do these things because we should just do these things because we should just do these things because we've learned from the past. Yeah. we've learned from the past. Yeah. we've learned from the past. Yeah. >> Um and the the real threat is really not >> Um and the the real threat is really not >> Um and the the real threat is really not state-to-state. I think this is state-to-state. I think this is state-to-state. I think this is something that we need to just just let something that we need to just just let something that we need to just just let people understand. The reason nobody has people understand. The reason nobody has people understand. The reason nobody has you know used nuclear arms for 80 years you know used nuclear arms for 80 years you know used nuclear arms for 80 years is because we understand that when you is because we understand that when you is because we understand that when you do you escalate this into essentially do you escalate this into essentially do you escalate this into essentially global destruction. There there is a global destruction. There there is a global destruction. There there is a natural balance that has existed for 80 natural balance that has existed for 80 natural balance that has existed for 80 years and years and years and AI you're not even if you got to ASI AI you're not even if you got to ASI AI you're not even if you got to ASI what what are you going to do you're what what are you going to do you're what what are you going to do you're going to say oh I'm going to go unleash going to say oh I'm going to go unleash going to say oh I'm going to go unleash it to turn off all the power data it to turn off all the power data it to turn off all the power data centers and and all of the power grid centers and and all of the power grid centers and and all of the power grid and all the banking system of China then and all the banking system of China then and all the banking system of China then they're just going to sit there and let they're just going to sit there and let they're just going to sit there and let that happen no that happen no that happen no >> for why why would you do it >> for why why would you do it >> for why why would you do it >> no right and they're they're not going >> no right and they're they're not going >> no right and they're they're not going to do it so so is that the threat that's to do it so so is that the threat that's to do it so so is that the threat that's not the threat threat is bad actors not the threat threat is bad actors not the threat threat is bad actors >> non-state actors non-state actors rogue >> non-state actors non-state actors rogue >> non-state actors non-state actors rogue actors who already every day is planning actors who already every day is planning actors who already every day is planning to do things everywhere in the world to do things everywhere in the world to do things everywhere in the world because it somehow achieves whatever because it somehow achieves whatever because it somehow achieves whatever their purpose is whether it's for self their purpose is whether it's for self their purpose is whether it's for self gain or for some ideology right we know gain or for some ideology right we know gain or for some ideology right we know that exists and given what we said that exists and given what we said that exists and given what we said earlier these models are getting small earlier these models are getting small earlier these models are getting small enough it runs on your laptop enough it runs on your laptop enough it runs on your laptop >> that's not a state power that's an >> that's not a state power that's an >> that's not a state power that's an individual power individual power individual power >> if it's an individual power then it >> if it's an individual power then it >> if it's an individual power then it requires requires requires >> I think we need to do the same thing >> I think we need to do the same thing >> I think we need to do the same thing soon with this technology because the

soon with this technology because the soon with this technology because the ability for ability for ability for >> small groups of people to do big amounts >> small groups of people to do big amounts >> small groups of people to do big amounts of harm that can destabilize their of harm that can destabilize their of harm that can destabilize their society is either here or soon will be. society is either here or soon will be. society is either here or soon will be. So this is already happening but it's So this is already happening but it's So this is already happening but it's going to go up going to go up going to go up and that's just on cyber and that's just on cyber and that's just on cyber >> not to mention you know bio uh and >> not to mention you know bio uh and >> not to mention you know bio uh and chemical you know because you can have chemical you know because you can have chemical you know because you can have right I think I don't I think I sent you right I think I don't I think I sent you right I think I don't I think I sent you a paper on that I did on called um a paper on that I did on called um a paper on that I did on called um bigger models are not not the biggest bigger models are not not the biggest bigger models are not not the biggest threats right threats right threats right >> yes you did >> yes you did >> yes you did >> right and you know essentially we're >> right and you know essentially we're >> right and you know essentially we're showing millions of parameter chemical showing millions of parameter chemical showing millions of parameter chemical models can make chemical weapons in models can make chemical weapons in models can make chemical weapons in hours on a laptop hours on a laptop hours on a laptop >> that's right >> that's right >> that's right >> how do you stop that how do you and >> how do you stop that how do you and >> how do you stop that how do you and these are things that are already in these are things that are already in these are things that are already in public open source that people can public open source that people can public open source that people can either download or buy for nothing. either download or buy for nothing. either download or buy for nothing. >> So then the question is how do you make >> So then the question is how do you make >> So then the question is how do you make sure that the precursors sure that the precursors sure that the precursors >> are maintained and there's there's a >> are maintained and there's there's a >> are maintained and there's there's a good you know your customer uh uh good you know your customer uh uh good you know your customer uh uh protocol so that you can find people protocol so that you can find people protocol so that you can find people when you see that they're doing bad when you see that they're doing bad when you see that they're doing bad things and we've done that with you know things and we've done that with you know things and we've done that with you know making bombs and you know fertilizers making bombs and you know fertilizers making bombs and you know fertilizers and other things and other things and other things >> oxycottton yeah pharmaceuticals >> oxycottton yeah pharmaceuticals >> oxycottton yeah pharmaceuticals >> pharmaceuticals right so and and the >> pharmaceuticals right so and and the >> pharmaceuticals right so and and the same for uh for bioh is that we have same for uh for bioh is that we have same for uh for bioh is that we have this uh you know global uh consortium this uh you know global uh consortium this uh you know global uh consortium synthesis consortium that allows DNA synthesis consortium that allows DNA synthesis consortium that allows DNA sequencers sequencers sequencers to look at potentially harmful virus to look at potentially harmful virus to look at potentially harmful virus sequences, flag them and not produce sequences, flag them and not produce sequences, flag them and not produce them.

them. them. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. And and that protocol has been >> Right. And and that protocol has been >> Right. And and that protocol has been around, but now if we say, oh, you know, around, but now if we say, oh, you know, around, but now if we say, oh, you know, our our machines are not going to talk our our machines are not going to talk our our machines are not going to talk to your machine. So if China finds a to your machine. So if China finds a to your machine. So if China finds a virus pattern, they're not going to virus pattern, they're not going to virus pattern, they're not going to share with America. And if America finds share with America. And if America finds share with America. And if America finds one, they won't share with China one, they won't share with China one, they won't share with China >> and no one wins. >> and no one wins. >> and no one wins. >> Not not only no one wins, everybody lo >> Not not only no one wins, everybody lo >> Not not only no one wins, everybody lo everybody loses, right? Because you know everybody loses, right? Because you know everybody loses, right? Because you know this is when you need to talk more and I this is when you need to talk more and I this is when you need to talk more and I think you don't want to create a think you don't want to create a think you don't want to create a bifurcation of systems because that just bifurcation of systems because that just bifurcation of systems because that just creates more dark spaces for bad actors creates more dark spaces for bad actors creates more dark spaces for bad actors to hide. to hide. to hide. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And and >> And and >> And and >> they hide in the cracks. >> they hide in the cracks. >> they hide in the cracks. >> They Yeah. And then the cracks are >> They Yeah. And then the cracks are >> They Yeah. And then the cracks are getting bigger every day. Right. Let's getting bigger every day. Right. Let's getting bigger every day. Right. Let's start there because there there is no start there because there there is no start there because there there is no scenario in the world where uh not scenario in the world where uh not scenario in the world where uh not working together makes more sense than working together makes more sense than working together makes more sense than working together. working together. working together. >> That's right. No, I think that's really >> That's right. No, I think that's really >> That's right. No, I think that's really true. And I think there's a ton of true. And I think there's a ton of true. And I think there's a ton of misunderstanding about misunderstanding about misunderstanding about there there's this sort of assumed there there's this sort of assumed there there's this sort of assumed narrative of conflict that is narrative of conflict that is narrative of conflict that is self-propelling and self-reinforcing. self-propelling and self-reinforcing. self-propelling and self-reinforcing. >> I I but I I think it's not as natural as >> I I but I I think it's not as natural as >> I I but I I think it's not as natural as it seems. And essentially the current it seems. And essentially the current it seems. And essentially the current playbook that the AI industry is using playbook that the AI industry is using playbook that the AI industry is using is the military-industrial complex is the military-industrial complex is the military-industrial complex playbook that has worked for the last 60 playbook that has worked for the last 60 playbook that has worked for the last 60 70 years ever since Eisenhower, 70 years ever since Eisenhower, 70 years ever since Eisenhower, >> right? is find an enemy, make them big >> right? is find an enemy, make them big >> right? is find an enemy, make them big and big big and scary. [laughter] Make and big big and scary. [laughter] Make and big big and scary. [laughter] Make them big and scary and then make them big and scary and then make them big and scary and then make yourself the solution to that problem.

yourself the solution to that problem. yourself the solution to that problem. >> And when you do, >> And when you do, >> And when you do, >> everybody aligns and works with you, >> everybody aligns and works with you, >> everybody aligns and works with you, supports you, gets rid of your your uh supports you, gets rid of your your uh supports you, gets rid of your your uh regulatory constraints and allows you to regulatory constraints and allows you to regulatory constraints and allows you to make a lot of money. And this is make a lot of money. And this is make a lot of money. And this is essentially what's happened in the last essentially what's happened in the last essentially what's happened in the last four or five years with the AI industry. four or five years with the AI industry. four or five years with the AI industry. If your stuff is that good, why the heck If your stuff is that good, why the heck If your stuff is that good, why the heck do you need, you know, do you need, you know, do you need, you know, >> that much lobbying? >> that much lobbying? >> that much lobbying? >> That that much lobbying, right? Yeah. I >> That that much lobbying, right? Yeah. I >> That that much lobbying, right? Yeah. I mean, essentially, there's hundreds of mean, essentially, there's hundreds of mean, essentially, there's hundreds of millions of dollars right now that are millions of dollars right now that are millions of dollars right now that are in, you know, in the lobbying and the in, you know, in the lobbying and the in, you know, in the lobbying and the packs to try to get their their policies packs to try to get their their policies packs to try to get their their policies approved. And who who has a lot of approved. And who who has a lot of approved. And who who has a lot of lobbyists? It's like the the insurance lobbyists? It's like the the insurance lobbyists? It's like the the insurance industry and the tobacco industry and industry and the tobacco industry and industry and the tobacco industry and the petroleum industry and the defense the petroleum industry and the defense the petroleum industry and the defense industry because they have reasons to industry because they have reasons to industry because they have reasons to try to move you off of something that try to move you off of something that try to move you off of something that you weren't going to do. you weren't going to do. you weren't going to do. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's a really interesting >> Yeah. Yeah. That's a really interesting >> Yeah. Yeah. That's a really interesting take. Um, okay, let's switch gears a take. Um, okay, let's switch gears a take. Um, okay, let's switch gears a little bit. You've talked a lot about little bit. You've talked a lot about little bit. You've talked a lot about the idea, and we've talked about the the idea, and we've talked about the the idea, and we've talked about the idea that intelligence is ambient, that idea that intelligence is ambient, that idea that intelligence is ambient, that we think there's a lot of long-term good we think there's a lot of long-term good we think there's a lot of long-term good to society, but we've also talked about to society, but we've also talked about to society, but we've also talked about this idea that there's some short-term this idea that there's some short-term this idea that there's some short-term pain around jobs and we have challenges pain around jobs and we have challenges pain around jobs and we have challenges for individuals.

for individuals. for individuals. >> When you look at the next 10 years or >> When you look at the next 10 years or >> When you look at the next 10 years or so, paint me, I guess maybe paint me two so, paint me, I guess maybe paint me two so, paint me, I guess maybe paint me two paths, right? Paint me the happy path paths, right? Paint me the happy path paths, right? Paint me the happy path where you're like, "Okay, we're going to where you're like, "Okay, we're going to where you're like, "Okay, we're going to get to a society that's more get to a society that's more get to a society that's more functioning." And then maybe paint me a functioning." And then maybe paint me a functioning." And then maybe paint me a darker path. darker path. darker path. >> Yeah. Um, which one do you want to go >> Yeah. Um, which one do you want to go >> Yeah. Um, which one do you want to go first? first? first? >> Either one, your choice. >> Either one, your choice. >> Either one, your choice. >> Yeah. Let's do the dark path first >> Yeah. Let's do the dark path first >> Yeah. Let's do the dark path first because usually you want to start with because usually you want to start with because usually you want to start with the pain. the pain. the pain. >> Start with the pain, end on the happy. >> Start with the pain, end on the happy. >> Start with the pain, end on the happy. >> I mean, if you read most of the >> I mean, if you read most of the >> I mean, if you read most of the forecasts out there, they paint the dark forecasts out there, they paint the dark forecasts out there, they paint the dark path. Yeah. Right. And the dark path is path. Yeah. Right. And the dark path is path. Yeah. Right. And the dark path is either uh you know, some some country either uh you know, some some country either uh you know, some some country gets uh close to AGI. uh that AGI either gets uh close to AGI. uh that AGI either gets uh close to AGI. uh that AGI either runs away and then you know starts wars runs away and then you know starts wars runs away and then you know starts wars or or or takes and turns us into or or or takes and turns us into or or or takes and turns us into batteries batteries batteries >> or the the countries then fight against >> or the the countries then fight against >> or the the countries then fight against each other and we destroy each other or each other and we destroy each other or each other and we destroy each other or uh a few companies become super powerful uh a few companies become super powerful uh a few companies become super powerful and essentially takes over the world and and essentially takes over the world and and essentially takes over the world and you have a few private companies running you have a few private companies running you have a few private companies running [snorts] the world right and I think [snorts] the world right and I think [snorts] the world right and I think probably the more likely one is that we probably the more likely one is that we probably the more likely one is that we get to uh there probably will be some get to uh there probably will be some get to uh there probably will be some wars because if you have large amounts wars because if you have large amounts wars because if you have large amounts of displacement uh the best and fastest of displacement uh the best and fastest of displacement uh the best and fastest way to employ them is to have way to employ them is to have way to employ them is to have >> put them in an army.

>> put them in an army. >> put them in an army. >> You put them into your army. That gets >> You put them into your army. That gets >> You put them into your army. That gets rid of some of them rid of some of them rid of some of them >> and that also employs them for some >> and that also employs them for some >> and that also employs them for some period of time. period of time. period of time. >> Um, and it also dis it distracts >> Um, and it also dis it distracts >> Um, and it also dis it distracts people's attention away from their daily people's attention away from their daily people's attention away from their daily suffering and it unites them against suffering and it unites them against suffering and it unites them against some common enemy. I mean, this this some common enemy. I mean, this this some common enemy. I mean, this this playbook has been used a playbook has been used a playbook has been used a >> 2,000 years. 2,000 years. It's not. >> 2,000 years. 2,000 years. It's not. >> 2,000 years. 2,000 years. It's not. >> So, >> So, >> So, >> um, but I I would like us to to uh not >> um, but I I would like us to to uh not >> um, but I I would like us to to uh not be apathetic that one of these has to be apathetic that one of these has to be apathetic that one of these has to happen. I I I think right now on the happen. I I I think right now on the happen. I I I think right now on the path that we are on we will probably path that we are on we will probably path that we are on we will probably head towards that that middle path head towards that that middle path head towards that that middle path >> right because I I don't think that the >> right because I I don't think that the >> right because I I don't think that the the econ economics makes sense for a AI the econ economics makes sense for a AI the econ economics makes sense for a AI lab to actually be the one who captures lab to actually be the one who captures lab to actually be the one who captures all the value. I actually believe that all the value. I actually believe that all the value. I actually believe that if AI does what we think it will is that if AI does what we think it will is that if AI does what we think it will is that the the value actually distributes in the the value actually distributes in the the value actually distributes in non-monetary ways to society non-monetary ways to society non-monetary ways to society >> and then takes away the value of these >> and then takes away the value of these >> and then takes away the value of these giant trillion dollar investments giant trillion dollar investments giant trillion dollar investments because now I can get it for free and I because now I can get it for free and I because now I can get it for free and I can just run on my laptop which I didn't can just run on my laptop which I didn't can just run on my laptop which I didn't cost me anything that so so that cost me anything that so so that cost me anything that so so that actually I I think um so but the war actually I I think um so but the war actually I I think um so but the war part the the the the um economic part the the the the um economic part the the the the um economic collapse the the uh bubble collapsing I collapse the the uh bubble collapsing I collapse the the uh bubble collapsing I think those are highly likely. Now, think those are highly likely. Now, think those are highly likely. Now, >> that may not be a bad thing because it >> that may not be a bad thing because it >> that may not be a bad thing because it goes back to the question you asked goes back to the question you asked goes back to the question you asked earlier, earlier, earlier, >> which was what does it take for us to to >> which was what does it take for us to to >> which was what does it take for us to to make to change our minds and start to do make to change our minds and start to do make to change our minds and start to do the right things is that we need a the right things is that we need a the right things is that we need a crisis. And I think the smallest crisis crisis. And I think the smallest crisis crisis. And I think the smallest crisis I can think of that is reversible I can think of that is reversible I can think of that is reversible >> uh and recoverable in a reasonable

>> uh and recoverable in a reasonable >> uh and recoverable in a reasonable amount of time is a uh economic uh amount of time is a uh economic uh amount of time is a uh economic uh crisis because an economic crisis we've crisis because an economic crisis we've crisis because an economic crisis we've seen is you know some cases it takes seen is you know some cases it takes seen is you know some cases it takes less than a year in some cases it takes less than a year in some cases it takes less than a year in some cases it takes a decade a decade a decade >> but it's recoverable and people don't >> but it's recoverable and people don't >> but it's recoverable and people don't die well not from directly anyways right die well not from directly anyways right die well not from directly anyways right um but it wakes people up and it changes um but it wakes people up and it changes um but it wakes people up and it changes people's minds and it it shows there are people's minds and it it shows there are people's minds and it it shows there are maybe other ways to to do things and I maybe other ways to to do things and I maybe other ways to to do things and I think uh if you know if you look at the think uh if you know if you look at the think uh if you know if you look at the current stock market 45% of the S&P current stock market 45% of the S&P current stock market 45% of the S&P today is AI stocks 100% today is AI stocks 100% today is AI stocks 100% >> right the the um uh Buffett index which >> right the the um uh Buffett index which >> right the the um uh Buffett index which is uh percentage of stock market versus is uh percentage of stock market versus is uh percentage of stock market versus the GDP uh what he recommends is 100% is the GDP uh what he recommends is 100% is the GDP uh what he recommends is 100% is a good balance where you know the the a good balance where you know the the a good balance where you know the the total stock market value is about the total stock market value is about the total stock market value is about the stock about the same as the GDP of the stock about the same as the GDP of the stock about the same as the GDP of the country uh guess how what we are on on country uh guess how what we are on on country uh guess how what we are on on the Buffet in about the indicator today. the Buffet in about the indicator today. the Buffet in about the indicator today. >> Oh, we're way over that. >> Oh, we're way over that. >> Oh, we're way over that. >> We're 240%. >> We're 240%. >> We're 240%. >> I was going to guess in the 200. >> I was going to guess in the 200. >> I was going to guess in the 200. >> So, so we we know there is a bubble. The >> So, so we we know there is a bubble. The >> So, so we we know there is a bubble. The question is when does it pop and and and question is when does it pop and and and question is when does it pop and and and the internet companies dropped like some the internet companies dropped like some the internet companies dropped like some cases Amazon dropped 90 something%.

cases Amazon dropped 90 something%. cases Amazon dropped 90 something%. >> Yeah. They almost went out of business. >> Yeah. They almost went out of business. >> Yeah. They almost went out of business. >> Yeah. Right. And Cisco went down by 86%. >> Yeah. Right. And Cisco went down by 86%. >> Yeah. Right. And Cisco went down by 86%. It they just came back to what they were It they just came back to what they were It they just came back to what they were in 2000. in 2000. in 2000. >> I know. >> I know. >> I know. >> So, >> So, >> So, >> 26 years later. >> 26 years later. >> 26 years later. >> 26 years later. So, so this is the issue >> 26 years later. So, so this is the issue >> 26 years later. So, so this is the issue is that um I think these type of of is that um I think these type of of is that um I think these type of of changes in in economy and changes in changes in in economy and changes in changes in in economy and changes in people's perception of wealth will make people's perception of wealth will make people's perception of wealth will make them uh rethink whether or not we're them uh rethink whether or not we're them uh rethink whether or not we're doing the right thing. doing the right thing. doing the right thing. Then the other thing is it's that the Then the other thing is it's that the Then the other thing is it's that the first question you asked is what is the first question you asked is what is the first question you asked is what is the biggest misperception? When you start biggest misperception? When you start biggest misperception? When you start thinking about survival of yourself, you thinking about survival of yourself, you thinking about survival of yourself, you stop thinking about trying to fight stop thinking about trying to fight stop thinking about trying to fight somebody else. You're trying to save somebody else. You're trying to save somebody else. You're trying to save yourself. And I think that that will yourself. And I think that that will yourself. And I think that that will actually be the actually be the actually be the the catalyst that initiates some level the catalyst that initiates some level the catalyst that initiates some level of cooperation between US and China. And of cooperation between US and China. And of cooperation between US and China. And I think those two countries, if they put I think those two countries, if they put I think those two countries, if they put their minds to it, these two are the two their minds to it, these two are the two their minds to it, these two are the two most powerful, richest and technological most powerful, richest and technological most powerful, richest and technological countries in the world. And they have an countries in the world. And they have an countries in the world. And they have an ability to help write that ship, ability to help write that ship, ability to help write that ship, >> right? In fact, if you look at, you >> right? In fact, if you look at, you >> right? In fact, if you look at, you know, World War II, uh, US and China know, World War II, uh, US and China know, World War II, uh, US and China were actually allies. They were were actually allies. They were were actually allies. They were >> against, you know, the Japanese. In >> against, you know, the Japanese. In >> against, you know, the Japanese. In fact, my my grandmother went to China in fact, my my grandmother went to China in fact, my my grandmother went to China in 1937 from from Berkeley to report on the 1937 from from Berkeley to report on the 1937 from from Berkeley to report on the war, right? And she was, you know, kind war, right? And she was, you know, kind war, right? And she was, you know, kind of uh I guess uh trying to to to uh of uh I guess uh trying to to to uh of uh I guess uh trying to to to uh connect these countries. Uh I'm I guess connect these countries. Uh I'm I guess connect these countries. Uh I'm I guess I'm trying to do what she didn't I'm trying to do what she didn't I'm trying to do what she didn't complete, you know, many decades later.

complete, you know, many decades later. complete, you know, many decades later. If you look at what happened in 2008 If you look at what happened in 2008 If you look at what happened in 2008 with the great financial crisis, with the great financial crisis, with the great financial crisis, >> China kept buying US bonds. >> China kept buying US bonds. >> China kept buying US bonds. >> Yep. Even when we >> Yep. Even when we >> Yep. Even when we >> which was much needed >> which was much needed >> which was much needed >> which was much if they didn't it could >> which was much if they didn't it could >> which was much if they didn't it could have you know completely raised the have you know completely raised the have you know completely raised the price of of of the uh the debt price of of of the uh the debt price of of of the uh the debt >> and uh created a real solveny problem >> and uh created a real solveny problem >> and uh created a real solveny problem for the country. Yeah. for the country. Yeah. for the country. Yeah. >> Right. So they came and helped us out. I >> Right. So they came and helped us out. I >> Right. So they came and helped us out. I think in some ways uh think in some ways uh think in some ways uh >> because China is actually less exposed >> because China is actually less exposed >> because China is actually less exposed to this AI bubble because they're to this AI bubble because they're to this AI bubble because they're spending about uh 80 billion dollars a spending about uh 80 billion dollars a spending about uh 80 billion dollars a year. we're spending over a trillion year. we're spending over a trillion year. we're spending over a trillion dollars a year uh in in capex. So their dollars a year uh in in capex. So their dollars a year uh in in capex. So their their exposure is much less, their debt their exposure is much less, their debt their exposure is much less, their debt is much less. So is much less. So is much less. So >> I think that that will actually be a >> I think that that will actually be a >> I think that that will actually be a positive in terms of let's stop this positive in terms of let's stop this positive in terms of let's stop this race. Let's redirect our our our race. Let's redirect our our our race. Let's redirect our our our spending to the right places. Let's spending to the right places. Let's spending to the right places. Let's actually take care of our people versus actually take care of our people versus actually take care of our people versus fighting. And that will also then get us fighting. And that will also then get us fighting. And that will also then get us to the next thing which is maybe we to the next thing which is maybe we to the next thing which is maybe we don't need to be, you know, making as don't need to be, you know, making as don't need to be, you know, making as much data center. all the costs actually much data center. all the costs actually much data center. all the costs actually starts to come down. The the the the starts to come down. The the the the starts to come down. The the the the memory shortage we have starts to become memory shortage we have starts to become memory shortage we have starts to become more uh manageable more uh manageable more uh manageable >> because everybody's buying the same >> because everybody's buying the same >> because everybody's buying the same things at the same time, things at the same time, things at the same time, >> you know. So, so we need to get it back >> you know. So, so we need to get it back >> you know. So, so we need to get it back down to normal. We we we we get it back down to normal. We we we we get it back down to normal. We we we we get it back in balance with with the supply chain in balance with with the supply chain in balance with with the supply chain with nature and then we start to think with nature and then we start to think with nature and then we start to think about, okay, how can we now that we have about, okay, how can we now that we have about, okay, how can we now that we have all this extra capacity of making chips, all this extra capacity of making chips, all this extra capacity of making chips, who else can we sell to? And it's who else can we sell to? And it's who else can we sell to? And it's actually the global south.

actually the global south. actually the global south. >> Yeah. And so now we do what we did in >> Yeah. And so now we do what we did in >> Yeah. And so now we do what we did in 1946, which was the Marshall Plan. 1946, which was the Marshall Plan. 1946, which was the Marshall Plan. >> The Marshall Plan allow it was I think >> The Marshall Plan allow it was I think >> The Marshall Plan allow it was I think $18 billion over four years, rebuilt a $18 billion over four years, rebuilt a $18 billion over four years, rebuilt a lot of uh Europe and created essentially lot of uh Europe and created essentially lot of uh Europe and created essentially a you know 70 80year marketplace for a you know 70 80year marketplace for a you know 70 80year marketplace for American goods. American goods. American goods. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. And I think that's what we need >> Right. And I think that's what we need >> Right. And I think that's what we need to do. And that will then allow all this to do. And that will then allow all this to do. And that will then allow all this extra capacity that we've built to then extra capacity that we've built to then extra capacity that we've built to then have a place to go. have a place to go. have a place to go. >> Allow those countries to to to catch up >> Allow those countries to to to catch up >> Allow those countries to to to catch up from a technology-wise so they're not from a technology-wise so they're not from a technology-wise so they're not left behind. If they grow, they then left behind. If they grow, they then left behind. If they grow, they then become customers for American become customers for American become customers for American technology, American devices and chips. technology, American devices and chips. technology, American devices and chips. Um, and same for China. So they're Um, and same for China. So they're Um, and same for China. So they're they're they're both aligned. They want they're they're both aligned. They want they're they're both aligned. They want to be able to do this, to be able to do this, to be able to do this, >> you know, and and then >> you know, and and then >> you know, and and then >> we're helping uplift uh the global >> we're helping uplift uh the global >> we're helping uplift uh the global south. we we're helping ourselves. We we south. we we're helping ourselves. We we south. we we're helping ourselves. We we create a lot more peace dividend because create a lot more peace dividend because create a lot more peace dividend because now we're not spending as much on now we're not spending as much on now we're not spending as much on fighting because we we're saying, "Hey, fighting because we we're saying, "Hey, fighting because we we're saying, "Hey, maybe we don't need to spend $1 and a maybe we don't need to spend $1 and a maybe we don't need to spend $1 and a half trillion dollars on weapons this half trillion dollars on weapons this half trillion dollars on weapons this year, year, year, >> right? Because who are who are you going >> right? Because who are who are you going >> right? Because who are who are you going to fight against when everybody's to fight against when everybody's to fight against when everybody's fighting for survival?

fighting for survival? fighting for survival? >> Making more weapons doesn't really help >> Making more weapons doesn't really help >> Making more weapons doesn't really help you." you." you." >> You know, if you look at >> You know, if you look at >> You know, if you look at >> uh humans are are social animals. Yeah. >> uh humans are are social animals. Yeah. >> uh humans are are social animals. Yeah. You know, we we we have kind of You know, we we we have kind of You know, we we we have kind of disconnected from ourselves over the disconnected from ourselves over the disconnected from ourselves over the last few decades and also specifically last few decades and also specifically last few decades and also specifically since 2020 with COVID where we lock since 2020 with COVID where we lock since 2020 with COVID where we lock ourselves up and we don't talk to our ourselves up and we don't talk to our ourselves up and we don't talk to our neighbors, you know, and and even with neighbors, you know, and and even with neighbors, you know, and and even with our kids. Our kids, you know, lock our kids. Our kids, you know, lock our kids. Our kids, you know, lock themselves in the room and go online. themselves in the room and go online. themselves in the room and go online. They don't talk to their friends. They They don't talk to their friends. They They don't talk to their friends. They don't talk to their parents and they don't talk to their parents and they don't talk to their parents and they come out and get food once in a while, come out and get food once in a while, come out and get food once in a while, right? This is not a a healthy way for right? This is not a a healthy way for right? This is not a a healthy way for us to live. If we can start to leverage us to live. If we can start to leverage us to live. If we can start to leverage the the laborsaving benefits of the the laborsaving benefits of the the laborsaving benefits of productivity gains from AI, allow people productivity gains from AI, allow people productivity gains from AI, allow people to spend more time at home instead of, to spend more time at home instead of, to spend more time at home instead of, >> you know, time trying to compete to to >> you know, time trying to compete to to >> you know, time trying to compete to to to win things, to win things, to win things, >> we then have more time to actually spend >> we then have more time to actually spend >> we then have more time to actually spend face to face face to face face to face >> whether with our neighbors, with our >> whether with our neighbors, with our >> whether with our neighbors, with our children, with our families, with our children, with our families, with our children, with our families, with our churches, whatever, and and become more churches, whatever, and and become more churches, whatever, and and become more human again. And I think AI will human again. And I think AI will human again. And I think AI will actually uh allow us to be more human. actually uh allow us to be more human. actually uh allow us to be more human. that that's kind of the the final that's that that's kind of the the final that's that that's kind of the the final that's the happy that's the that's the the the the happy that's the that's the the the the happy that's the that's the the the happy path. I think one of the things happy path. I think one of the things happy path. I think one of the things that has really stood out to me is that that has really stood out to me is that that has really stood out to me is that this is a pivotal moment in history. And this is a pivotal moment in history. And this is a pivotal moment in history. And yes, you know, there are people who have yes, you know, there are people who have yes, you know, there are people who have unusual influence. They're leaders of unusual influence. They're leaders of unusual influence. They're leaders of companies, there leaders of governments, companies, there leaders of governments, companies, there leaders of governments, but we collectively also shape our but we collectively also shape our but we collectively also shape our future.

future. future. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And I think if you look at it and you >> And I think if you look at it and you >> And I think if you look at it and you say, okay, there's there's a lot of say, okay, there's there's a lot of say, okay, there's there's a lot of investment in data centers. Maybe we're investment in data centers. Maybe we're investment in data centers. Maybe we're too heavy there. too heavy there. too heavy there. What if, especially as we've been What if, especially as we've been What if, especially as we've been talking about these quantized models, talking about these quantized models, talking about these quantized models, these models coming down, these models coming down, these models coming down, >> what if the opportunity is really in >> what if the opportunity is really in >> what if the opportunity is really in something that's closer to the mini duck something that's closer to the mini duck something that's closer to the mini duck that HuggingFace released, like these that HuggingFace released, like these that HuggingFace released, like these little small robotic experiences, these little small robotic experiences, these little small robotic experiences, these places where compute is just available places where compute is just available places where compute is just available in the home and adds value in discrete in the home and adds value in discrete in the home and adds value in discrete ways. And sure, are there businesses ways. And sure, are there businesses ways. And sure, are there businesses there? Absolutely. But also, there's there? Absolutely. But also, there's there? Absolutely. But also, there's just a lot of value that will probably just a lot of value that will probably just a lot of value that will probably be hard to quantify from a GDP be hard to quantify from a GDP be hard to quantify from a GDP perspective, but that we will feel in perspective, but that we will feel in perspective, but that we will feel in our homes and communities. our homes and communities. our homes and communities. >> Oh, absolutely. I think robotics is >> Oh, absolutely. I think robotics is >> Oh, absolutely. I think robotics is actually going to be increasingly actually going to be increasingly actually going to be increasingly important and you can see over the last important and you can see over the last important and you can see over the last few years that the progress has happened few years that the progress has happened few years that the progress has happened and and actually from a a US China and and actually from a a US China and and actually from a a US China perspective, I think actually China's perspective, I think actually China's perspective, I think actually China's way ahead right now on on manu anything way ahead right now on on manu anything way ahead right now on on manu anything manufacturing. Yeah. manufacturing. Yeah. manufacturing. Yeah. >> Because they had the whole supply chain. >> Because they had the whole supply chain. >> Because they had the whole supply chain. They have all of the talent there. I They have all of the talent there. I They have all of the talent there. I went to the unit tree factory just two went to the unit tree factory just two went to the unit tree factory just two months ago and it was a bunch of little months ago and it was a bunch of little months ago and it was a bunch of little ladies wrapping coils around magnets and ladies wrapping coils around magnets and ladies wrapping coils around magnets and they're still doing that. I mean all they're still doing that. I mean all they're still doing that. I mean all manual manual manual >> all manual but they did say hey you know >> all manual but they did say hey you know >> all manual but they did say hey you know we're working on these machines they we're working on these machines they we're working on these machines they were showing me these automated machines were showing me these automated machines were showing me these automated machines but you know it just the the pace of but you know it just the the pace of but you know it just the the pace of change in in that space is going to be change in in that space is going to be change in in that space is going to be just like the the software side has been just like the the software side has been just like the the software side has been the last few years when we look at the the last few years when we look at the the last few years when we look at the next few years.

next few years. next few years. >> So so so more and more devices will be >> So so so more and more devices will be >> So so so more and more devices will be coming into our homes. Uh, you know, I coming into our homes. Uh, you know, I coming into our homes. Uh, you know, I think starting with with little kind of think starting with with little kind of think starting with with little kind of fun things like what you're describing. fun things like what you're describing. fun things like what you're describing. I actually advise one of these companies I actually advise one of these companies I actually advise one of these companies that does robotics training and, you that does robotics training and, you that does robotics training and, you know, training for something as simple know, training for something as simple know, training for something as simple as folding your sheets as folding your sheets as folding your sheets >> takes a while. >> takes a while. >> takes a while. >> It's it's difficult because sheets are, >> It's it's difficult because sheets are, >> It's it's difficult because sheets are, you know, it's different in every home. you know, it's different in every home. you know, it's different in every home. >> Every bed's different, every cloth's >> Every bed's different, every cloth's >> Every bed's different, every cloth's different, every color is different, the different, every color is different, the different, every color is different, the lighting is different versus, you know, lighting is different versus, you know, lighting is different versus, you know, to make somebody, you know, have a fight to make somebody, you know, have a fight to make somebody, you know, have a fight on a flat mat with a a a a a on a flat mat with a a a a a on a flat mat with a a a a a standardized shape. That's actually standardized shape. That's actually standardized shape. That's actually pretty easy for for AI and robots to do. pretty easy for for AI and robots to do. pretty easy for for AI and robots to do. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, >> So, >> So, >> yeah, I think that's a really good >> yeah, I think that's a really good >> yeah, I think that's a really good point. I think there's a lot of you point. I think there's a lot of you point. I think there's a lot of you reality is surprisingly detailed. reality is surprisingly detailed. reality is surprisingly detailed. There's a lot of detail that robotics There's a lot of detail that robotics There's a lot of detail that robotics has to master to really get into the has to master to really get into the has to master to really get into the home. Um, but we're on a path there. home. Um, but we're on a path there. home. Um, but we're on a path there. >> Yeah. But robotics in in factories will >> Yeah. But robotics in in factories will >> Yeah. But robotics in in factories will just it's going to happen. It's going to just it's going to happen. It's going to just it's going to happen. It's going to happen faster. And it doesn't have to be happen faster. And it doesn't have to be happen faster. And it doesn't have to be a human noise. a human noise. a human noise. >> No. >> No. >> No. >> That that was >> That that was >> That that was >> that's an assumption everyone makes. I >> that's an assumption everyone makes. I >> that's an assumption everyone makes. I don't know why. don't know why. don't know why. >> No. And in fact, uh I when I was talking >> No. And in fact, uh I when I was talking >> No. And in fact, uh I when I was talking to the the Yinutri CEO, he was saying to the the Yinutri CEO, he was saying to the the Yinutri CEO, he was saying that they're selling more halfbody that they're selling more halfbody that they're selling more halfbody humanoids than they are the full body humanoids than they are the full body humanoids than they are the full body humanoids. Uh you know, because it's humanoids. Uh you know, because it's humanoids. Uh you know, because it's just the batteries last longer. They're just the batteries last longer. They're just the batteries last longer. They're more stable. They don't fall over. They more stable. They don't fall over. They more stable. They don't fall over. They there just a lot of benefits of not there just a lot of benefits of not there just a lot of benefits of not having legs. Uh and you can if you're having legs. Uh and you can if you're having legs. Uh and you can if you're working in in a factory, it's it's flat.

working in in a factory, it's it's flat. working in in a factory, it's it's flat. You don't need to walk. Walking is You don't need to walk. Walking is You don't need to walk. Walking is actually actually actually >> you just stay there and you do your >> you just stay there and you do your >> you just stay there and you do your thing. thing. thing. >> Yeah. It's it's an inefficient thing. >> Yeah. It's it's an inefficient thing. >> Yeah. It's it's an inefficient thing. And you know, you're spending all your And you know, you're spending all your And you know, you're spending all your energy keeping stable so you don't fall energy keeping stable so you don't fall energy keeping stable so you don't fall over. And these things are still over. And these things are still over. And these things are still relatively fragile. Uh relatively fragile. Uh relatively fragile. Uh >> that's right. >> that's right. >> that's right. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You know, one of the things I like >> Yeah. You know, one of the things I like >> Yeah. You know, one of the things I like to do when I'm tracking technical to do when I'm tracking technical to do when I'm tracking technical changes, I look at the rate at which an changes, I look at the rate at which an changes, I look at the rate at which an idea goes from someone made something on idea goes from someone made something on idea goes from someone made something on X to I see an ad for it in Tik Tok. X to I see an ad for it in Tik Tok. X to I see an ad for it in Tik Tok. >> Um and now it's a product. Yeah. >> Um and now it's a product. Yeah. >> Um and now it's a product. Yeah. >> And that has gotten shorter and shorter >> And that has gotten shorter and shorter >> And that has gotten shorter and shorter and shorter. And so like I was looking and shorter. And so like I was looking and shorter. And so like I was looking at an ex open-source project two months at an ex open-source project two months at an ex open-source project two months ago and the idea was you take this ago and the idea was you take this ago and the idea was you take this little screen, you stick it up against little screen, you stick it up against little screen, you stick it up against your wall and if you're an airplane your wall and if you're an airplane your wall and if you're an airplane nerd, you can see the airplanes that are nerd, you can see the airplanes that are nerd, you can see the airplanes that are flying overhead because it uses flight flying overhead because it uses flight flying overhead because it uses flight data and it like shows you the data and it like shows you the data and it like shows you the airplanes. Very fun little project, very airplanes. Very fun little project, very airplanes. Very fun little project, very open source. Not even 60 days later, open source. Not even 60 days later, open source. Not even 60 days later, exactly that product on Tik Tok. Yeah. exactly that product on Tik Tok. Yeah. exactly that product on Tik Tok. Yeah. >> For the airplane nerd in your life. >> For the airplane nerd in your life. >> For the airplane nerd in your life. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I mean this that's sent in speed, right? >> I mean this that's sent in speed, right? >> I mean this that's sent in speed, right? Essentially anything you can think of. Essentially anything you can think of. Essentially anything you can think of. you've got an idea. You you go find a you've got an idea. You you go find a you've got an idea. You you go find a ODM in in Senzen and within weeks you ODM in in Senzen and within weeks you ODM in in Senzen and within weeks you have a working demo or working prototype have a working demo or working prototype have a working demo or working prototype and within another month or two you and within another month or two you and within another month or two you could actually get that on assembly could actually get that on assembly could actually get that on assembly line.

line. line. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So in terms of of of um hardware >> So in terms of of of um hardware >> So in terms of of of um hardware prototyping and you know time to market prototyping and you know time to market prototyping and you know time to market uh it's it's crazy what's possible. uh it's it's crazy what's possible. uh it's it's crazy what's possible. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> No, it really is. And I saw it >> No, it really is. And I saw it >> No, it really is. And I saw it firsthand. I I don't know that we've firsthand. I I don't know that we've firsthand. I I don't know that we've talked about my background but I used to talked about my background but I used to talked about my background but I used to do hardware manufacturing. Um, but I was do hardware manufacturing. Um, but I was do hardware manufacturing. Um, but I was in the coffee space. in the coffee space. in the coffee space. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, I invented a sort of stainless steel >> So, I invented a sort of stainless steel >> So, I invented a sort of stainless steel filter contraption for coffee makers. filter contraption for coffee makers. filter contraption for coffee makers. >> Um, I did my prototyping with jewelry >> Um, I did my prototyping with jewelry >> Um, I did my prototyping with jewelry welders. I still have scars on my hands welders. I still have scars on my hands welders. I still have scars on my hands from all of that. from all of that. from all of that. >> Um, and then we tried to make it in the >> Um, and then we tried to make it in the >> Um, and then we tried to make it in the States and we ended up finding a factory States and we ended up finding a factory States and we ended up finding a factory in Pennsylvania. It was a ton of work in Pennsylvania. It was a ton of work in Pennsylvania. It was a ton of work this and that. this and that. this and that. >> And I saw firsthand how fast once we >> And I saw firsthand how fast once we >> And I saw firsthand how fast once we made it, made it, made it, >> it just spread as an idea. Like ideas >> it just spread as an idea. Like ideas >> it just spread as an idea. Like ideas want to be free. like all of a sudden want to be free. like all of a sudden want to be free. like all of a sudden like there was this just this flood of like there was this just this flood of like there was this just this flood of very similar looking devices and I could very similar looking devices and I could very similar looking devices and I could see them getting better at welding see them getting better at welding see them getting better at welding because I could like buy the product and because I could like buy the product and because I could like buy the product and oh you're getting better you're getting oh you're getting better you're getting oh you're getting better you're getting better you're getting better and it was better you're getting better and it was better you're getting better and it was like like like >> technical innovation is something that >> technical innovation is something that >> technical innovation is something that >> ultimately I it was discouraging for me >> ultimately I it was discouraging for me >> ultimately I it was discouraging for me as an entrepreneur at the time but as an entrepreneur at the time but as an entrepreneur at the time but ultimately it's good for everybody.

ultimately it's good for everybody. ultimately it's good for everybody. >> Yeah. I mean that that's the biggest >> Yeah. I mean that that's the biggest >> Yeah. I mean that that's the biggest winner I think of of the this AI race is winner I think of of the this AI race is winner I think of of the this AI race is that the the consumer the end user the that the the consumer the end user the that the the consumer the end user the businesses that will utilize it and and businesses that will utilize it and and businesses that will utilize it and and one thing you said earlier about it one thing you said earlier about it one thing you said earlier about it doesn't show in the GDP. doesn't show in the GDP. doesn't show in the GDP. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I think that that's something that >> And I think that that's something that >> And I think that that's something that we need to think about is to to redefine we need to think about is to to redefine we need to think about is to to redefine value value value >> because today everything is about how >> because today everything is about how >> because today everything is about how much you produce and what you can sell much you produce and what you can sell much you produce and what you can sell it for. it for. it for. >> And >> And >> And >> in a lot of ways technology >> in a lot of ways technology >> in a lot of ways technology >> deflates the price of goods. Mhm. >> deflates the price of goods. Mhm. >> deflates the price of goods. Mhm. >> Right. Uh I think if you there was a >> Right. Uh I think if you there was a >> Right. Uh I think if you there was a chart that went you know kind of viral chart that went you know kind of viral chart that went you know kind of viral the last few years which was you know the last few years which was you know the last few years which was you know all the services things kept going up all the services things kept going up all the services things kept going up significantly education and and uh significantly education and and uh significantly education and and uh housing and uh you know uh your TV your housing and uh you know uh your TV your housing and uh you know uh your TV your computer your phone so it's like this computer your phone so it's like this computer your phone so it's like this diverging curve that's happening and AI diverging curve that's happening and AI diverging curve that's happening and AI makes essentially anything automatable. makes essentially anything automatable. makes essentially anything automatable. Yeah. uh whether it's it's uh cognitive Yeah. uh whether it's it's uh cognitive Yeah. uh whether it's it's uh cognitive services, white collar services services, white collar services services, white collar services >> or physical goods because these things >> or physical goods because these things >> or physical goods because these things will then be tied to machines to will then be tied to machines to will then be tied to machines to automate design, automate testing, automate design, automate testing, automate design, automate testing, automate manufacturing. So all of those automate manufacturing. So all of those automate manufacturing. So all of those prices will come down and if you look at prices will come down and if you look at prices will come down and if you look at raw GDP, you may actually have a raw GDP, you may actually have a raw GDP, you may actually have a reduction in price because you're going reduction in price because you're going reduction in price because you're going to have, you know, companies who can to have, you know, companies who can to have, you know, companies who can make what used to cost thousand dollars make what used to cost thousand dollars make what used to cost thousand dollars into $100 and $100 would be tens of into $100 and $100 would be tens of into $100 and $100 would be tens of dollars, dollars, dollars, >> right? and services. You know, we don't >> right? and services. You know, we don't >> right? and services. You know, we don't even need to talk about because I have even need to talk about because I have even need to talk about because I have friends who are in McKenzie and the friends who are in McKenzie and the friends who are in McKenzie and the various banks and they're saying we used various banks and they're saying we used various banks and they're saying we used to, you know, do a a um perspectives for to, you know, do a a um perspectives for to, you know, do a a um perspectives for an IPO would take us weeks and teams of an IPO would take us weeks and teams of an IPO would take us weeks and teams of tens of people. Now we can do it over a

tens of people. Now we can do it over a tens of people. Now we can do it over a weekend with a couple people, right? So, weekend with a couple people, right? So, weekend with a couple people, right? So, and if you're and McKenzie is the same, and if you're and McKenzie is the same, and if you're and McKenzie is the same, right? Millions of dollars per per right? Millions of dollars per per right? Millions of dollars per per >> and it affects your pricing power if >> and it affects your pricing power if >> and it affects your pricing power if >> Yeah. And how do you price for that? >> Yeah. And how do you price for that? >> Yeah. And how do you price for that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Right. And so, so that that's something >> Right. And so, so that that's something >> Right. And so, so that that's something that I think that the GDP won't account that I think that the GDP won't account that I think that the GDP won't account for, but it's actually extra value. Just for, but it's actually extra value. Just for, but it's actually extra value. Just like, you know, now everybody can have a like, you know, now everybody can have a like, you know, now everybody can have a high quality lawyer at their fingertip. high quality lawyer at their fingertip. high quality lawyer at their fingertip. I I I I I I >> How do you measure the value? >> How do you measure the value? >> How do you measure the value? >> Yeah. I mean, I used to not want to call >> Yeah. I mean, I used to not want to call >> Yeah. I mean, I used to not want to call my lawyer because I know every time I my lawyer because I know every time I my lawyer because I know every time I called him, it would be, you know, at called him, it would be, you know, at called him, it would be, you know, at least a 15 minutes times $1,000. Y least a 15 minutes times $1,000. Y least a 15 minutes times $1,000. Y >> just to have a a a fivem minute call. >> just to have a a a fivem minute call. >> just to have a a a fivem minute call. So, and if it's a if it's a contract, So, and if it's a if it's a contract, So, and if it's a if it's a contract, it's it'll be hundreds, you know, hours it's it'll be hundreds, you know, hours it's it'll be hundreds, you know, hours and thousands of dollars for something and thousands of dollars for something and thousands of dollars for something that now you just send it to the AI and that now you just send it to the AI and that now you just send it to the AI and say, "Look at this as my lawyer. What am say, "Look at this as my lawyer. What am say, "Look at this as my lawyer. What am I missing? What what requirements do I missing? What what requirements do I missing? What what requirements do what changes should I be asking for?" what changes should I be asking for?" what changes should I be asking for?" >> Right? That's that's value, but it is >> Right? That's that's value, but it is >> Right? That's that's value, but it is not GDP value. not GDP value. not GDP value. >> Yeah. I it's really hard to measure the >> Yeah. I it's really hard to measure the >> Yeah. I it's really hard to measure the impact of a general purpose technology. impact of a general purpose technology. impact of a general purpose technology. It just sort of permeates like It just sort of permeates like It just sort of permeates like >> we we're we're now all have a team of >> we we're we're now all have a team of >> we we're we're now all have a team of experts at our fingertips experts at our fingertips experts at our fingertips >> for experts for anything, right? sports >> for experts for anything, right? sports >> for experts for anything, right? sports injury, medicine, law, like you name it.

injury, medicine, law, like you name it. injury, medicine, law, like you name it. >> Exactly. I mean, and how much and these >> Exactly. I mean, and how much and these >> Exactly. I mean, and how much and these that was not even available to the that was not even available to the that was not even available to the richest people in the world. No, richest people in the world. No, richest people in the world. No, >> just a few years ago. >> just a few years ago. >> just a few years ago. >> That's right. And now we just have it >> That's right. And now we just have it >> That's right. And now we just have it and don't even think about it. And I and don't even think about it. And I and don't even think about it. And I think that's, you know, that's what think that's, you know, that's what think that's, you know, that's what makes me really curious. Like I think makes me really curious. Like I think makes me really curious. Like I think you're absolutely right that we have you're absolutely right that we have you're absolutely right that we have this opportunity for in real life this opportunity for in real life this opportunity for in real life connection coming up that we haven't had connection coming up that we haven't had connection coming up that we haven't had but in a while. Yeah. but in a while. Yeah. but in a while. Yeah. >> And that we really need to take >> And that we really need to take >> And that we really need to take advantage of. And when I think about advantage of. And when I think about advantage of. And when I think about that and I put that together with the that and I put that together with the that and I put that together with the with where sort of AI is going, with where sort of AI is going, with where sort of AI is going, miniaturaturization of AI, it just feels miniaturaturization of AI, it just feels miniaturaturization of AI, it just feels like we're headed more and more toward a like we're headed more and more toward a like we're headed more and more toward a world where we'll have the technology. world where we'll have the technology. world where we'll have the technology. The technology will be there when we The technology will be there when we The technology will be there when we want it. want it. want it. >> But we will have the chance to build >> But we will have the chance to build >> But we will have the chance to build better connections with each other. better connections with each other. better connections with each other. >> Because humans remain interested in each >> Because humans remain interested in each >> Because humans remain interested in each other. We remain curious about each other. We remain curious about each other. We remain curious about each other. That's not going to go away. And other. That's not going to go away. And other. That's not going to go away. And you know, you know, last week I I spent you know, you know, last week I I spent you know, you know, last week I I spent a whole week in the desert in the play a whole week in the desert in the play a whole week in the desert in the play and that was my biggest kind of and that was my biggest kind of and that was my biggest kind of conclusion conclusion conclusion >> was that humans are social animals. When >> was that humans are social animals. When >> was that humans are social animals. When you go, you know, to Burning Man, you you go, you know, to Burning Man, you you go, you know, to Burning Man, you spend a week in the desert and spend a week in the desert and spend a week in the desert and >> everything you you you bring in is all >> everything you you you bring in is all >> everything you you you bring in is all you have.

you have. you have. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You start to realize that first of all, >> You start to realize that first of all, >> You start to realize that first of all, you don't need a lot. You just need some you don't need a lot. You just need some you don't need a lot. You just need some water, some food, and some water, some food, and some water, some food, and some companionship. And you h you you can be companionship. And you h you you can be companionship. And you h you you can be very happy very happy very happy >> and everybody's there working. Nobody's >> and everybody's there working. Nobody's >> and everybody's there working. Nobody's being paid to do anything. But being paid to do anything. But being paid to do anything. But everybody's working so hard to to cook everybody's working so hard to to cook everybody's working so hard to to cook for each other, to take care of each for each other, to take care of each for each other, to take care of each other, to to build amazing art, to play other, to to build amazing art, to play other, to to build amazing art, to play music for each other. music for each other. music for each other. >> And that it made you so happy even >> And that it made you so happy even >> And that it made you so happy even though there was no exchange of money. though there was no exchange of money. though there was no exchange of money. >> In fact, there was a reverse status, >> In fact, there was a reverse status, >> In fact, there was a reverse status, right? If you were a billionaire that right? If you were a billionaire that right? If you were a billionaire that flew in on a jet and people made your flew in on a jet and people made your flew in on a jet and people made your tent for you or or or you had this, you tent for you or or or you had this, you tent for you or or or you had this, you know, service staff, people look down on know, service staff, people look down on know, service staff, people look down on you. you. you. >> You're lower status. >> You're lower status. >> You're lower status. >> Yeah. No, [laughter] they're like, >> Yeah. No, [laughter] they're like, >> Yeah. No, [laughter] they're like, "Dude, that that guy's not a burner." "Dude, that that guy's not a burner." "Dude, that that guy's not a burner." >> Yeah. Right. And so I I feel like um >> Yeah. Right. And so I I feel like um >> Yeah. Right. And so I I feel like um we're we're going to need new status we're we're going to need new status we're we're going to need new status instruments going forward. Right now in instruments going forward. Right now in instruments going forward. Right now in the what they call you know the burners the what they call you know the burners the what they call you know the burners call the default world which is what we call the default world which is what we call the default world which is what we live right now. live right now. live right now. >> It's all about money and power. >> It's all about money and power. >> It's all about money and power. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And uh on the playa it's it's all about >> And uh on the playa it's it's all about >> And uh on the playa it's it's all about creativity, creativity, creativity, >> service and community.

>> service and community. >> service and community. >> And those are things that you cannot >> And those are things that you cannot >> And those are things that you cannot monopolize. Right. So it actually monopolize. Right. So it actually monopolize. Right. So it actually creates a lot more equality and that creates a lot more equality and that creates a lot more equality and that equity allows people to to bond more equity allows people to to bond more equity allows people to to bond more >> and and that that was something that I >> and and that that was something that I >> and and that that was something that I in fact I'm I'm doing a research paper in fact I'm I'm doing a research paper in fact I'm I'm doing a research paper >> uh as for for Stanford specifically on >> uh as for for Stanford specifically on >> uh as for for Stanford specifically on this issue and looking at does the this issue and looking at does the this issue and looking at does the gifting economy and the the principles gifting economy and the the principles gifting economy and the the principles of operation of that culture is that a of operation of that culture is that a of operation of that culture is that a precursor precursor precursor to a post scarcity post labor postetary to a post scarcity post labor postetary to a post scarcity post labor postetary society because in in some ways You go society because in in some ways You go society because in in some ways You go in there, you spend a whole year. You in there, you spend a whole year. You in there, you spend a whole year. You know, some people save up for a whole know, some people save up for a whole know, some people save up for a whole year so they can spend that week in a year so they can spend that week in a year so they can spend that week in a place where there's no money. place where there's no money. place where there's no money. >> But if if AI and robots do all the labor >> But if if AI and robots do all the labor >> But if if AI and robots do all the labor and essentially do that 51 weeks a year, and essentially do that 51 weeks a year, and essentially do that 51 weeks a year, can we live our life not necessarily in can we live our life not necessarily in can we live our life not necessarily in the desert, but live our life in in the the desert, but live our life in in the the desert, but live our life in in the the the the world that we are in, but the the the world that we are in, but the the the world that we are in, but with a lot less of that financial with a lot less of that financial with a lot less of that financial pressure and a lot more focus on pressure and a lot more focus on pressure and a lot more focus on community and creativity and and and and community and creativity and and and and community and creativity and and and and service. I think that's part of what has service. I think that's part of what has service. I think that's part of what has made the imagined future of Star Trek so made the imagined future of Star Trek so made the imagined future of Star Trek so enduringly interesting.

enduringly interesting. enduringly interesting. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Like Pequard doesn't think about getting >> Like Pequard doesn't think about getting >> Like Pequard doesn't think about getting more money. more money. more money. >> Yeah. That was his thinks about >> Yeah. That was his thinks about >> Yeah. That was his thinks about exploring the universe. exploring the universe. exploring the universe. >> Well, he also says we work for the >> Well, he also says we work for the >> Well, he also says we work for the betterment of our species. betterment of our species. betterment of our species. >> That's right. Right. >> That's right. Right. >> That's right. Right. >> And that's what motivates him and >> And that's what motivates him and >> And that's what motivates him and motivates the whole team. motivates the whole team. motivates the whole team. >> Yeah. And so I I and Oh, actually a >> Yeah. And so I I and Oh, actually a >> Yeah. And so I I and Oh, actually a little trivia on Star Trek. Do you know little trivia on Star Trek. Do you know little trivia on Star Trek. Do you know what happens in 2026 in Star Trek? what happens in 2026 in Star Trek? what happens in 2026 in Star Trek? >> No, I don't. What happens? >> No, I don't. What happens? >> No, I don't. What happens? >> World War II. >> World War II. >> World War II. >> Oh, no. [laughter] >> Oh, no. [laughter] >> Oh, no. [laughter] No, but but World War II was also what No, but but World War II was also what No, but but World War II was also what then you got people to wake up, got then you got people to wake up, got then you got people to wake up, got people to come together. It took them a people to come together. It took them a people to come together. It took them a few decades to to recover and then they few decades to to recover and then they few decades to to recover and then they created a warp drive. And then who came? created a warp drive. And then who came? created a warp drive. And then who came? >> The Vulcans came. The Vulcans advanced >> The Vulcans came. The Vulcans advanced >> The Vulcans came. The Vulcans advanced alien species, alien species, alien species, >> brought advanced technologies, gave us >> brought advanced technologies, gave us >> brought advanced technologies, gave us the resources to be abundant and stopped the resources to be abundant and stopped the resources to be abundant and stopped fighting. Y fighting. Y fighting. Y >> and then we started to, you know, get >> and then we started to, you know, get >> and then we started to, you know, get together and started to discover the together and started to discover the together and started to discover the universe or the galaxy at least. What universe or the galaxy at least. What universe or the galaxy at least. What does that sound like? does that sound like? does that sound like? >> Sounds a lot like the world we're living >> Sounds a lot like the world we're living >> Sounds a lot like the world we're living in. in. in. >> Sounds like the AI that we're creating. >> Sounds like the AI that we're creating. >> Sounds like the AI that we're creating. Essentially, we don't need to depend on Essentially, we don't need to depend on Essentially, we don't need to depend on the kindness of an alien species. We are the kindness of an alien species. We are the kindness of an alien species. We are creating our own alien species.

creating our own alien species. creating our own alien species. >> We are >> We are >> We are >> right. And if we can do >> right. And if we can do >> right. And if we can do >> with AI what that the federation did or >> with AI what that the federation did or >> with AI what that the federation did or at least the humans before the at least the humans before the at least the humans before the federation did with AI in terms of using federation did with AI in terms of using federation did with AI in terms of using it for creating shared common good, it for creating shared common good, it for creating shared common good, >> we actually can create a pseudo proto >> we actually can create a pseudo proto >> we actually can create a pseudo proto utopian uh world where people care a lot utopian uh world where people care a lot utopian uh world where people care a lot more about service to each other and more about service to each other and more about service to each other and betterment of of humanity than they do betterment of of humanity than they do betterment of of humanity than they do about enriching themselves. about enriching themselves. about enriching themselves. >> Well, and to bring this all the way back >> Well, and to bring this all the way back >> Well, and to bring this all the way back around to Gen Z and the young folks we around to Gen Z and the young folks we around to Gen Z and the young folks we talked about earlier, that motivation is talked about earlier, that motivation is talked about earlier, that motivation is something I hear proactively from them a something I hear proactively from them a something I hear proactively from them a ton, like that's what they're interested ton, like that's what they're interested ton, like that's what they're interested in. in. in. >> So, so this actually I have a theory for >> So, so this actually I have a theory for >> So, so this actually I have a theory for this. M the chimps and the and the this. M the chimps and the and the this. M the chimps and the and the bonobos separated from each other and bonobos separated from each other and bonobos separated from each other and north of the conger the the chimps lived north of the conger the the chimps lived north of the conger the the chimps lived and it was a relatively kind of seasonal and it was a relatively kind of seasonal and it was a relatively kind of seasonal and and aid space. So sometimes there and and aid space. So sometimes there and and aid space. So sometimes there was a lot of food sometimes there wasn't was a lot of food sometimes there wasn't was a lot of food sometimes there wasn't and so being strong and and and you know and so being strong and and and you know and so being strong and and and you know um uh alpha male driven um uh alpha male driven um uh alpha male driven >> might mix right >> might mix right >> might mix right >> it gives you access to resources so you >> it gives you access to resources so you >> it gives you access to resources so you live better. South of the Congo River is live better. South of the Congo River is live better. South of the Congo River is where the Bonobos lived and there was where the Bonobos lived and there was where the Bonobos lived and there was always food. It was like a very always food. It was like a very always food. It was like a very >> resource abundant >> resource abundant >> resource abundant >> resource abundant world. And so in that >> resource abundant world. And so in that >> resource abundant world. And so in that world actually having the cohesiveness world actually having the cohesiveness world actually having the cohesiveness of a matriarchal femaleled um nonviolent of a matriarchal femaleled um nonviolent of a matriarchal femaleled um nonviolent um you know actually sex-driven conflict um you know actually sex-driven conflict um you know actually sex-driven conflict resolution model actually works better resolution model actually works better resolution model actually works better because if you have everything why are because if you have everything why are because if you have everything why are we fighting? Let's just let's just get we fighting? Let's just let's just get we fighting? Let's just let's just get along. It is the one side is the

along. It is the one side is the along. It is the one side is the scarcity driven reaction to their scarcity driven reaction to their scarcity driven reaction to their environment and the other one is the environment and the other one is the environment and the other one is the abundance driven reaction. And remember abundance driven reaction. And remember abundance driven reaction. And remember what we talked earlier about about young what we talked earlier about about young what we talked earlier about about young people people people >> is that they lived in such a sheltered >> is that they lived in such a sheltered >> is that they lived in such a sheltered life that they've always had abundance. life that they've always had abundance. life that they've always had abundance. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so they don't feel that the the >> And so they don't feel that the the >> And so they don't feel that the the hunger of competition and fighting and hunger of competition and fighting and hunger of competition and fighting and they need to fight to survive. Whereas they need to fight to survive. Whereas they need to fight to survive. Whereas you know like I I I was born on a you know like I I I was born on a you know like I I I was born on a re-education farm during the cultural re-education farm during the cultural re-education farm during the cultural revolution. We we were given little revolution. We we were given little revolution. We we were given little tickets of you this is how many ounces tickets of you this is how many ounces tickets of you this is how many ounces of sugar you have for this week for your of sugar you have for this week for your of sugar you have for this week for your family and family and family and >> good luck. That's all you got. >> good luck. That's all you got. >> good luck. That's all you got. >> Yes. And so you always felt scarcity, >> Yes. And so you always felt scarcity, >> Yes. And so you always felt scarcity, right? And and you know, so so but right? And and you know, so so but right? And and you know, so so but that's where a lot of kind of our that's where a lot of kind of our that's where a lot of kind of our generation maybe even before they came generation maybe even before they came generation maybe even before they came from a world where where you had to from a world where where you had to from a world where where you had to fight and compete for your for your what fight and compete for your for your what fight and compete for your for your what you had. Whereas that generation now you had. Whereas that generation now you had. Whereas that generation now have they're the the bonobos of the have they're the the bonobos of the have they're the the bonobos of the world [laughter] and and I'm I'm hoping world [laughter] and and I'm I'm hoping world [laughter] and and I'm I'm hoping that we are now going to create a that we are now going to create a that we are now going to create a generation after them the the al the gen generation after them the the al the gen generation after them the the al the gen alphas or whatever will be even more and alphas or whatever will be even more and alphas or whatever will be even more and more benovo more and more peaceloving more benovo more and more peaceloving more benovo more and more peaceloving >> and having more ability to to to find >> and having more ability to to to find >> and having more ability to to to find ways to cooperate and collaborate versus ways to cooperate and collaborate versus ways to cooperate and collaborate versus conflict. You know, I I love that conflict. You know, I I love that conflict. You know, I I love that focus because that is one of the things focus because that is one of the things focus because that is one of the things that has emerged to me that I have sort that has emerged to me that I have sort that has emerged to me that I have sort of reflected back at talking with my of reflected back at talking with my of reflected back at talking with my community uh that I've sort of built on community uh that I've sort of built on community uh that I've sort of built on YouTube and other places, Substack, over YouTube and other places, Substack, over YouTube and other places, Substack, over the last year or two. The thing that has the last year or two. The thing that has the last year or two. The thing that has stood out over and over again, seeing stood out over and over again, seeing stood out over and over again, seeing like the hundreds and thousands of like the hundreds and thousands of like the hundreds and thousands of stories of people who have changed their stories of people who have changed their stories of people who have changed their lives with AI, none of them are doing so lives with AI, none of them are doing so lives with AI, none of them are doing so at the expense of one another.

at the expense of one another. at the expense of one another. >> The future is an abundant future. >> The future is an abundant future. >> The future is an abundant future. >> Yes. And so if we start to sort of buy >> Yes. And so if we start to sort of buy >> Yes. And so if we start to sort of buy that and think about that seriously, I that and think about that seriously, I that and think about that seriously, I think it changes absolutely everything. think it changes absolutely everything. think it changes absolutely everything. >> Absolutely. So this this is why I gave >> Absolutely. So this this is why I gave >> Absolutely. So this this is why I gave you that pin, the abundant pin. So you that pin, the abundant pin. So you that pin, the abundant pin. So because I want you to to I I know you because I want you to to I I know you because I want you to to I I know you already have that mindset, but I I think already have that mindset, but I I think already have that mindset, but I I think the the world needs to think more about the the world needs to think more about the the world needs to think more about this to realize we in fact we already this to realize we in fact we already this to realize we in fact we already live in an abundant world, particularly live in an abundant world, particularly live in an abundant world, particularly in America. in America. in America. >> Astonishing abundance. >> Astonishing abundance. >> Astonishing abundance. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> But but but it's just not evenly >> But but but it's just not evenly >> But but but it's just not evenly distributed. And most people don't distributed. And most people don't distributed. And most people don't realize what they already have. And this realize what they already have. And this realize what they already have. And this is why going to the desert helps you is why going to the desert helps you is why going to the desert helps you realize how abundant a life we already realize how abundant a life we already realize how abundant a life we already have. have. have. >> The abundance is already here. It's just >> The abundance is already here. It's just >> The abundance is already here. It's just not evenly distributed. [laughter] not evenly distributed. [laughter] not evenly distributed. [laughter] >> We're uh we're Gibson again. >> We're uh we're Gibson again. >> We're uh we're Gibson again. >> There you go. There you go. Um well, >> There you go. There you go. Um well, >> There you go. There you go. Um well, thank you. Thank you for coming and thank you. Thank you for coming and thank you. Thank you for coming and chatting. chatting. chatting. >> No, no, this this is we need to do it >> No, no, this this is we need to do it >> No, no, this this is we need to do it again sometime. This this is fun. I I I again sometime. This this is fun. I I I again sometime. This this is fun. I I I think we have a lot in common. think we have a lot in common. think we have a lot in common. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And it's just good to get that >> Yeah. And it's just good to get that >> Yeah. And it's just good to get that perspective. I think one of the things perspective. I think one of the things perspective. I think one of the things that I've been looking forward to about that I've been looking forward to about that I've been looking forward to about this conversation is I feel like because this conversation is I feel like because this conversation is I feel like because you have that cross-pacific perspective, you have that cross-pacific perspective, you have that cross-pacific perspective, it's a needed voice in a moment when it's a needed voice in a moment when it's a needed voice in a moment when most of the voices are stuck on one most of the voices are stuck on one most of the voices are stuck on one coast or another.

coast or another. coast or another. >> Yeah. Just more good can come from from >> Yeah. Just more good can come from from >> Yeah. Just more good can come from from peace than from war. So, [laughter] very peace than from war. So, [laughter] very peace than from war. So, [laughter] very much so. All right. Well, thank you, much so. All right. Well, thank you, much so. All right. Well, thank you, Alvin. Thank you. Hey, thanks, Nate. Alvin. Thank you. Hey, thanks, Nate. Alvin. Thank you. Hey, thanks, Nate. Yeah.