EPISODE 16 - Scott & Mark Learn To… Feedback

[Music] [Music] I'm doing a TED talk in a couple of I'm doing a TED talk in a couple of I'm doing a TED talk in a couple of weeks and um I went to the speaker weeks and um I went to the speaker weeks and um I went to the speaker coaching thing today. Destroyed me. They coaching thing today. Destroyed me. They coaching thing today. Destroyed me. They hated it. Really? Retool the whole talk. hated it. Really? Retool the whole talk. hated it. Really? Retool the whole talk. You're serious? Yeah. Yeah. Didn't You're serious? Yeah. Yeah. Didn't You're serious? Yeah. Yeah. Didn't Didn't they said there's not a talk Didn't they said there's not a talk Didn't they said there's not a talk here? There's not enough here. here? There's not enough here. here? There's not enough here. Wow. So, I got to go and figure out Have you ever had anyone make you out Have you ever had anyone make you rehearse? Yeah. Like write it down and rehearse? Yeah. Like write it down and rehearse? Yeah. Like write it down and memorize it. I don't like that. I hate memorize it. I don't like that. I hate memorize it. I don't like that. I hate it. I hate it. I I hate it. So I I I've it. I hate it. I I hate it. So I I I've it. I hate it. I I hate it. So I I I've done this talk like three times in front done this talk like three times in front done this talk like three times in front of like people that I know and they like of like people that I know and they like of like people that I know and they like love it and then I did it there. I just love it and then I did it there. I just love it and then I did it there. I just I did it completely wrong. Like I I did it completely wrong. Like I I did it completely wrong. Like I screwed myself over completely because screwed myself over completely because screwed myself over completely because it was not the talk I wanted to do. They it was not the talk I wanted to do. They it was not the talk I wanted to do. They didn't pick it up. They weren't giving didn't pick it up. They weren't giving didn't pick it up. They weren't giving me any energy. They hated it. me any energy. They hated it. me any energy. They hated it. Huh. And telling them, trust me, bro, is Huh. And telling them, trust me, bro, is Huh. And telling them, trust me, bro, is not a strategy for a good TED talk, it not a strategy for a good TED talk, it not a strategy for a good TED talk, it turns out. So how did you screw it up so turns out. So how did you screw it up so turns out. So how did you screw it up so bad? The vibes weren't there. the bad? The vibes weren't there. the bad? The vibes weren't there. the narrative. I I had an outline in front narrative. I I had an outline in front narrative. I I had an outline in front of me. I overthought it. Like they want of me. I overthought it. Like they want of me. I overthought it. Like they want it to be scripted without being it to be scripted without being it to be scripted without being scripted. I've got beats to hit, but I scripted. I've got beats to hit, but I scripted. I've got beats to hit, but I don't really hold the bullets in my don't really hold the bullets in my don't really hold the bullets in my head. Yeah. The way that other people head. Yeah. The way that other people head. Yeah. The way that other people do. I I I know how I want to get there, do. I I I know how I want to get there, do. I I I know how I want to get there, but there's not a lot of room in a TED but there's not a lot of room in a TED but there's not a lot of room in a TED talk for, you know, wandering.

talk for, you know, wandering. talk for, you know, wandering. Like, what's the whole essence of a TED Like, what's the whole essence of a TED Like, what's the whole essence of a TED talk? If you were to give a TED talk, it talk? If you were to give a TED talk, it talk? If you were to give a TED talk, it would be everything you know about blank would be everything you know about blank would be everything you know about blank is wrong. Yeah. here's why you should is wrong. Yeah. here's why you should is wrong. Yeah. here's why you should think about it this way. Like that's the think about it this way. Like that's the think about it this way. Like that's the structure and here's the call to action. structure and here's the call to action. structure and here's the call to action. So I I didn't have any of those things. So I I didn't have any of those things. So I I didn't have any of those things. I had a uh a 12-minute standup comedy I had a uh a 12-minute standup comedy I had a uh a 12-minute standup comedy bit about my life and uh it did not bit about my life and uh it did not bit about my life and uh it did not land. So yeah, that was my land. So yeah, that was my land. So yeah, that was my warning. That's sucks. [Music] [Music] You think good? Well, here's a good You think good? Well, here's a good You think good? Well, here's a good here's a good thing. We can learn about here's a good thing. We can learn about here's a good thing. We can learn about feedback today. I called a couple feedback today. I called a couple feedback today. I called a couple people. I called people who gotten people. I called people who gotten people. I called people who gotten feedback like this before. Some were feedback like this before. Some were feedback like this before. Some were reduced to tears. reduced to tears. reduced to tears. Wow. What is a good way to build one's Wow. What is a good way to build one's Wow. What is a good way to build one's emotional resilience so that they can emotional resilience so that they can emotional resilience so that they can receive feedback and receive feedback and receive feedback and not just be decimated? You know what I not just be decimated? You know what I not just be decimated? You know what I mean? Yeah. I don't know. I can I can mean? Yeah. I don't know. I can I can mean? Yeah. I don't know. I can I can see it from their perspective, so I see it from their perspective, so I see it from their perspective, so I respect the feedback and I can adjust.

respect the feedback and I can adjust. respect the feedback and I can adjust. Did you But you're not going to cry. Did you But you're not going to cry. Did you But you're not going to cry. Well, I might tear up a little bit on on Well, I might tear up a little bit on on Well, I might tear up a little bit on on the on our YouTube. No, but it just it the on our YouTube. No, but it just it the on our YouTube. No, but it just it wasn't like that cuz my identity is not wasn't like that cuz my identity is not wasn't like that cuz my identity is not attached to the thing that they gave me attached to the thing that they gave me attached to the thing that they gave me feedback on. Like if it was a piece of feedback on. Like if it was a piece of feedback on. Like if it was a piece of art that I'd worked for 20 years on and art that I'd worked for 20 years on and art that I'd worked for 20 years on and done like an done like an done like an MFA and I was like, here's my thesis on MFA and I was like, here's my thesis on MFA and I was like, here's my thesis on the culmination of my life's work. Yeah, the culmination of my life's work. Yeah, the culmination of my life's work. Yeah, that would have been challenging. So, that would have been challenging. So, that would have been challenging. So, like when is because feedback's like when is because feedback's like when is because feedback's someone's opinion, right? Have you ever someone's opinion, right? Have you ever someone's opinion, right? Have you ever given someone feedback and had them cry? given someone feedback and had them cry? given someone feedback and had them cry? Not that I know of. At least you Not that I know of. At least you Not that I know of. At least you wouldn't know cuz they slinkedked away wouldn't know cuz they slinkedked away wouldn't know cuz they slinkedked away and cried quietly and you couldn't see and cried quietly and you couldn't see and cried quietly and you couldn't see what you did to them. Let me tell you what you did to them. Let me tell you what you did to them. Let me tell you about the time you gave me feedback. I about the time you gave me feedback. I about the time you gave me feedback. I know. Oh, yeah. You So, one you just know. Oh, yeah. You So, one you just know. Oh, yeah. You So, one you just that one. Just that one. Oh, by the way, that one. Just that one. Oh, by the way, that one. Just that one. Oh, by the way, there's a really good comment on our there's a really good comment on our there's a really good comment on our YouTube from last week where they said YouTube from last week where they said YouTube from last week where they said that they like it when we call each that they like it when we call each that they like it when we call each other out for multitasking. I just saw other out for multitasking. I just saw other out for multitasking. I just saw you uh maximize a window and your face you uh maximize a window and your face you uh maximize a window and your face got bright because something entered got bright because something entered got bright because something entered light mode. They're like, "Good job light mode. They're like, "Good job light mode. They're like, "Good job keeping them on topic." See how my hands keeping them on topic." See how my hands keeping them on topic." See how my hands are away from the keyboard and you're are away from the keyboard and you're are away from the keyboard and you're doing email. Wait, can you see doing email. Wait, can you see doing email. Wait, can you see flashing%? I'm doing Morse code with flashing%? I'm doing Morse code with flashing%? I'm doing Morse code with That's exactly what I saw.

That's exactly what I saw. That's exactly what I saw. And you've got glasses so I can really And you've got glasses so I can really And you've got glasses so I can really tell. Yeah, you can know exactly what's tell. Yeah, you can know exactly what's tell. Yeah, you can know exactly what's going on. But yeah, like hard feedback going on. But yeah, like hard feedback going on. But yeah, like hard feedback is hard, but I think feedback's one of is hard, but I think feedback's one of is hard, but I think feedback's one of these words that just gets overloaded these words that just gets overloaded these words that just gets overloaded because when is feedback valid and because when is feedback valid and because when is feedback valid and actionable and when is feedback just actionable and when is feedback just actionable and when is feedback just someone else's opinion? Are we doing the someone else's opinion? Are we doing the someone else's opinion? Are we doing the show right now? I think we are. Is this show right now? I think we are. Is this show right now? I think we are. Is this And by the way, this seems to be the And by the way, this seems to be the And by the way, this seems to be the stick of you starting to talk just stick of you starting to talk just stick of you starting to talk just randomly and me going, are we is this randomly and me going, are we is this randomly and me going, are we is this the show? This is how every show goes the show? This is how every show goes the show? This is how every show goes now because it's about our lives. Unless now because it's about our lives. Unless now because it's about our lives. Unless you have some better show. I just feel you have some better show. I just feel you have some better show. I just feel like this just happened like an hour like this just happened like an hour like this just happened like an hour ago. I came from this event ago. I came from this event ago. I came from this event and well actually I mean this is and well actually I mean this is and well actually I mean this is a interesting topic because one of the a interesting topic because one of the a interesting topic because one of the things that I see is I mean you've been things that I see is I mean you've been things that I see is I mean you've been in meetings where somebody comes and in meetings where somebody comes and in meetings where somebody comes and asserts something like it's a UX and asserts something like it's a UX and asserts something like it's a UX and they're like that's wrong. It should be they're like that's wrong. It should be they're like that's wrong. It should be like this. Yeah. And then um the whole like this. Yeah. And then um the whole like this. Yeah. And then um the whole data data data driven principle. We're going to be data driven principle. We're going to be data driven principle. We're going to be data driven, right? Like where's the data driven, right? Like where's the data driven, right? Like where's the data that says it's wrong? Well, I don't have that says it's wrong? Well, I don't have that says it's wrong? Well, I don't have the data, but I know that it's wrong.

the data, but I know that it's wrong. the data, but I know that it's wrong. I've been around the block enough times I've been around the block enough times I've been around the block enough times that I know that it's wrong. Well, you that I know that it's wrong. Well, you that I know that it's wrong. Well, you don't have the data. It's staying the don't have the data. It's staying the don't have the data. It's staying the way it is. Uh that's a very Microsoft way it is. Uh that's a very Microsoft way it is. Uh that's a very Microsoft thing. Yeah. Big tech probably. It's thing. Yeah. Big tech probably. It's thing. Yeah. Big tech probably. It's like the the weaponization of data like the the weaponization of data like the the weaponization of data driven. Yeah. Go and do a survey. Do driven. Yeah. Go and do a survey. Do driven. Yeah. Go and do a survey. Do some user studies. Yeah. go fetch this some user studies. Yeah. go fetch this some user studies. Yeah. go fetch this rock. rock. rock. Uh and then you you know they Uh and then you you know they Uh and then you you know they I guess this is where I uh there has I guess this is where I uh there has I guess this is where I uh there has it's an art. You have to know when data it's an art. You have to know when data it's an art. You have to know when data will help you and when you're making a will help you and when you're making a will help you and when you're making a decision where you don't necessarily decision where you don't necessarily decision where you don't necessarily need the data to support it because the need the data to support it because the need the data to support it because the there's enough evidence already or your there's enough evidence already or your there's enough evidence already or your instinct or you're you've got a instinct or you're you've got a instinct or you're you've got a strategic vision for changing things and strategic vision for changing things and strategic vision for changing things and so you won't be able to get positive so you won't be able to get positive so you won't be able to get positive data. This is um for example Steve Jobs data. This is um for example Steve Jobs data. This is um for example Steve Jobs saying, "Hey, we're gonna make a a phone saying, "Hey, we're gonna make a a phone saying, "Hey, we're gonna make a a phone without a without a without a keyboard. Go find the data that says keyboard. Go find the data that says keyboard. Go find the data that says people want that." No, I love my people want that." No, I love my people want that." No, I love my Blackberry. Yeah, Blackberry. Yeah, Blackberry. Yeah, I'm never going to use a a phone without I'm never going to use a a phone without I'm never going to use a a phone without a keyboard. Starting from a if we start a keyboard. Starting from a if we start a keyboard. Starting from a if we start with this belief. Yeah, regardless of with this belief. Yeah, regardless of with this belief. Yeah, regardless of what anyone thinks, well, how far can we what anyone thinks, well, how far can we what anyone thinks, well, how far can we take it? Yeah. And and it turns out it take it? Yeah. And and it turns out it take it? Yeah. And and it turns out it worked. Can't argue with it now, but you worked. Can't argue with it now, but you worked. Can't argue with it now, but you could argue with it at the moment. But could argue with it at the moment. But could argue with it at the moment. But if you'd if he'd been in a data driven if you'd if he'd been in a data driven if you'd if he'd been in a data driven culture, you couldn't get the data to culture, you couldn't get the data to culture, you couldn't get the data to support it. This is like creating a new support it. This is like creating a new support it. This is like creating a new product category. It's really hard to product category. It's really hard to product category. It's really hard to get data to support it. Um you can you get data to support it. Um you can you get data to support it. Um you can you can get some signals and of course you can get some signals and of course you can get some signals and of course you should try to work on it but this is should try to work on it but this is should try to work on it but this is where um instinct art

where um instinct art where um instinct art experience all come together to uh to experience all come together to uh to experience all come together to uh to have a vision where you've got to just have a vision where you've got to just have a vision where you've got to just take a leap right well in the context of take a leap right well in the context of take a leap right well in the context of this feedback that I got today. It's the this feedback that I got today. It's the this feedback that I got today. It's the 13th year that they've done it. It's the 13th year that they've done it. It's the 13th year that they've done it. It's the third or fourth biggest head in in the third or fourth biggest head in in the third or fourth biggest head in in the world. That's their date. You're not world. That's their date. You're not world. That's their date. You're not you're not at the biggest one. you're not at the biggest one. you're not at the biggest one. No, not like you. No, not like you. No, not like you. I've not been invited to even the 10th I've not been invited to even the 10th I've not been invited to even the 10th biggest one. It'll be I don't It'll be biggest one. It'll be I don't It'll be biggest one. It'll be I don't It'll be three or four thousand people, but it's three or four thousand people, but it's three or four thousand people, but it's like small by big tech conference like small by big tech conference like small by big tech conference feedback. But this is a great point. So feedback. But this is a great point. So feedback. But this is a great point. So I could do this I could do this I could do this talk with a page of notes tomorrow in an talk with a page of notes tomorrow in an talk with a page of notes tomorrow in an hour if the talk was at Microsoft Build hour if the talk was at Microsoft Build hour if the talk was at Microsoft Build or if it was at South by Southwest or if or if it was at South by Southwest or if or if it was at South by Southwest or if it was at XOXO or some festival. But it was at XOXO or some festival. But it was at XOXO or some festival. But because they are the experts at TED and because they are the experts at TED and because they are the experts at TED and I am not, that's the data that they have I am not, that's the data that they have I am not, that's the data that they have for 13 years of successful TED. So I for 13 years of successful TED. So I for 13 years of successful TED. So I should listen to their feedback. So when should listen to their feedback. So when should listen to their feedback. So when someone gives you feedback, I think you someone gives you feedback, I think you someone gives you feedback, I think you have to ask yourself what is their have to ask yourself what is their have to ask yourself what is their motivation? They want a good event.

motivation? They want a good event. motivation? They want a good event. They're not trying to make anybody sad. They're not trying to make anybody sad. They're not trying to make anybody sad. Yeah. They're not trying to make you Yeah. They're not trying to make you Yeah. They're not trying to make you Yeah. And I think that's a thing that I Yeah. And I think that's a thing that I Yeah. And I think that's a thing that I couldn't do and you can do because we couldn't do and you can do because we couldn't do and you can do because we are people of a certain age with certain are people of a certain age with certain are people of a certain age with certain amount of experience. But when you're 17 amount of experience. But when you're 17 amount of experience. But when you're 17 or 20 or 25, you're you're you're not or 20 or 25, you're you're you're not or 20 or 25, you're you're you're not thinking about the motivation of the thinking about the motivation of the thinking about the motivation of the feedback giver. Yeah. You think they're feedback giver. Yeah. You think they're feedback giver. Yeah. You think they're against you and you feel attacked. Why against you and you feel attacked. Why against you and you feel attacked. Why would you say that? Well, but actually would you say that? Well, but actually would you say that? Well, but actually in the corporate world, you can have in the corporate world, you can have in the corporate world, you can have that kind of feedback. H you can have that kind of feedback. H you can have that kind of feedback. H you can have the we don't want to do that and it's the we don't want to do that and it's the we don't want to do that and it's motivated by we're doing our own thing motivated by we're doing our own thing motivated by we're doing our own thing and we like it or I'd have to and we like it or I'd have to and we like it or I'd have to change. change. change. Um or I view as this is a competitive Um or I view as this is a competitive Um or I view as this is a competitive situation. I win or you win. situation. I win or you win. situation. I win or you win. Yeah. That's where things that's where Yeah. That's where things that's where Yeah. That's where things that's where the the calculus of office politics gets the the calculus of office politics gets the the calculus of office politics gets complicated. Yeah. And and the complicated. Yeah. And and the complicated. Yeah. And and the combinatorics in my head are really combinatorics in my head are really combinatorics in my head are really strange. When I'm in a meeting and I'm strange. When I'm in a meeting and I'm strange. When I'm in a meeting and I'm like, should I say this? And then I look like, should I say this? And then I look like, should I say this? And then I look at the 81 people in the meeting and I at the 81 people in the meeting and I at the 81 people in the meeting and I go, probably not in this meeting. Yeah. go, probably not in this meeting. Yeah. go, probably not in this meeting. Yeah. We talked about that before. Do you We talked about that before. Do you We talked about that before. Do you remember that? We did. Do you remember?

remember that? We did. Do you remember? remember that? We did. Do you remember? Did so. Go ahead. I was just going to Did so. Go ahead. I was just going to Did so. Go ahead. I was just going to say like related to this whole thing of say like related to this whole thing of say like related to this whole thing of I mean you and I have both seen this I'm I mean you and I have both seen this I'm I mean you and I have both seen this I'm sure which is the team that doesn't want sure which is the team that doesn't want sure which is the team that doesn't want to to to do what you'd like them to do what you'd like them to do what you'd like them to do and it's the throw up the smokec do and it's the throw up the smokec do and it's the throw up the smokec screen screen screen defense. Uh no we can't do it because of defense. Uh no we can't do it because of defense. Uh no we can't do it because of X. No we can't do it because of Y. No it X. No we can't do it because of Y. No it X. No we can't do it because of Y. No it doesn't make sense. No where's the data? doesn't make sense. No where's the data? doesn't make sense. No where's the data? you know, it's just one thing like you know, it's just one thing like you know, it's just one thing like you're like, "Okay, here's my answer to you're like, "Okay, here's my answer to you're like, "Okay, here's my answer to this one." Well, and and you and it's this one." Well, and and you and it's this one." Well, and and you and it's solid answer that they can't refute. solid answer that they can't refute. solid answer that they can't refute. Okay. Well, but but then there's this Okay. Well, but but then there's this Okay. Well, but but then there's this other thing like, "What about that?" other thing like, "What about that?" other thing like, "What about that?" You're like, "Well, okay." So, that and You're like, "Well, okay." So, that and You're like, "Well, okay." So, that and it just is like this never ending and it it just is like this never ending and it it just is like this never ending and it after a couple of those and it's like after a couple of those and it's like after a couple of those and it's like becomes very clear they just don't want becomes very clear they just don't want becomes very clear they just don't want to do it and they're just trying to find to do it and they're just trying to find to do it and they're just trying to find any excuse any excuse any excuse in those in instances. That's like game in those in instances. That's like game in those in instances. That's like game theory, you know, with the two prisoners theory, you know, with the two prisoners theory, you know, with the two prisoners trying to figure out who's going to get trying to figure out who's going to get trying to figure out who's going to get out of and and in game theory, the out of and and in game theory, the out of and and in game theory, the challenge is do you assume best challenge is do you assume best challenge is do you assume best intentions or do you assume an intentions or do you assume an intentions or do you assume an adversarial relationship? And my career adversarial relationship? And my career adversarial relationship? And my career and my probably my and my probably my and my probably my um my Achilles heel has always been my um my Achilles heel has always been my um my Achilles heel has always been my naive. What are you clicking on right naive. What are you clicking on right naive. What are you clicking on right now? I'm I'm clicking away something now? I'm I'm clicking away something now? I'm I'm clicking away something because I'm trying to concentrate on you because I'm trying to concentrate on you because I'm trying to concentrate on you and I wanted to get it out of the way.

and I wanted to get it out of the way. and I wanted to get it out of the way. Um, but I'm also looking up and to the Um, but I'm also looking up and to the Um, but I'm also looking up and to the right because it's like this is where right because it's like this is where right because it's like this is where you recall and this is where you um can you recall and this is where you um can you recall and this is where you um can come up with new ideas. I'm not actually come up with new ideas. I'm not actually come up with new ideas. I'm not actually looking at anything. There's nothing on looking at anything. There's nothing on looking at anything. There's nothing on this monitor. But my Achilles heel is my this monitor. But my Achilles heel is my this monitor. But my Achilles heel is my naivee and I tend to assume best naivee and I tend to assume best naivee and I tend to assume best intentions which is how I got into this intentions which is how I got into this intentions which is how I got into this situation with you. Um, you know, not situation with you. Um, you know, not situation with you. Um, you know, not real not realizing how truly evil you real not realizing how truly evil you real not realizing how truly evil you are. That's right. And I'm just trying are. That's right. And I'm just trying are. That's right. And I'm just trying to crush your reputation by making one to crush your reputation by making one to crush your reputation by making one one pod one bad podcast at a time. Uh, one pod one bad podcast at a time. Uh, one pod one bad podcast at a time. Uh, no. I no. I no. I think if you and you I'm sure you've think if you and you I'm sure you've think if you and you I'm sure you've seen these people that are walking seen these people that are walking seen these people that are walking around assuming bad intention, right? around assuming bad intention, right? around assuming bad intention, right? And they feel like, wait, they're saying And they feel like, wait, they're saying And they feel like, wait, they're saying no because really what they're trying to no because really what they're trying to no because really what they're trying to do is they want to kill my project. do is they want to kill my project. do is they want to kill my project. That's why they're That's why they're That's why they're Yeah. There's a We've all come across Yeah. There's a We've all come across Yeah. There's a We've all come across those people in our corporate histories those people in our corporate histories those people in our corporate histories of the paranoid everybody's out to of the paranoid everybody's out to of the paranoid everybody's out to destroy things. They're all acting in destroy things. They're all acting in destroy things. They're all acting in bad faith. They're talking about things bad faith. They're talking about things bad faith. They're talking about things without me around. without me around. without me around. And that's just a miserable way to live And that's just a miserable way to live And that's just a miserable way to live in general. And that's not to say you in general. And that's not to say you in general. And that's not to say you need to swing to the other extreme and need to swing to the other extreme and need to swing to the other extreme and always assume that people are acting in always assume that people are acting in always assume that people are acting in good faith and never have ulterior good faith and never have ulterior good faith and never have ulterior motives that they're not sharing with motives that they're not sharing with motives that they're not sharing with you because that's certainly going to you because that's certainly going to you because that's certainly going to happen. But at least approaching things happen. But at least approaching things happen. But at least approaching things with I'm going to assume that you're not with I'm going to assume that you're not with I'm going to assume that you're not doing that and I'm going to assume it doing that and I'm going to assume it doing that and I'm going to assume it until I have really good evidence that until I have really good evidence that until I have really good evidence that you are.

you are. you are. Is the That's hard to do. Yeah, that's Is the That's hard to do. Yeah, that's Is the That's hard to do. Yeah, that's hard to do based on where you come from, hard to do based on where you come from, hard to do based on where you come from, your culture and where you came from in your culture and where you came from in your culture and where you came from in the world, how old you are, how how the world, how old you are, how how the world, how old you are, how how confident you are in your own in your confident you are in your own in your confident you are in your own in your own abilities and your own standing in own abilities and your own standing in own abilities and your own standing in the company. You know, if you're at a the company. You know, if you're at a the company. You know, if you're at a time of layoffs, that can be a thing time of layoffs, that can be a thing time of layoffs, that can be a thing that would make you feel more tense. If that would make you feel more tense. If that would make you feel more tense. If you uh what have you the whole what have you uh what have you the whole what have you uh what have you the whole what have you done for me lately thing with your you done for me lately thing with your you done for me lately thing with your boss where it's like, yeah, I'm on good boss where it's like, yeah, I'm on good boss where it's like, yeah, I'm on good standing with my boss because in the standing with my boss because in the standing with my boss because in the game of corporate Flappy Bird, I'm on an game of corporate Flappy Bird, I'm on an game of corporate Flappy Bird, I'm on an upswing because I recently did something upswing because I recently did something upswing because I recently did something cool. cool. cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm like, will Microsoft build? Yeah, I'm like, will Microsoft build? Yeah, I'm like, will Microsoft build? You and I have been like working on You and I have been like working on You and I have been like working on build and trying to make it better and build and trying to make it better and build and trying to make it better and I'm deep in it right now and there's I'm deep in it right now and there's I'm deep in it right now and there's always arguments about how we should do always arguments about how we should do always arguments about how we should do build. And in no sense have I ever felt build. And in no sense have I ever felt build. And in no sense have I ever felt like anyone was uh against it. No, like like anyone was uh against it. No, like like anyone was uh against it. No, like we you and I want to see a tech we you and I want to see a tech we you and I want to see a tech conference a certain way, but but if conference a certain way, but but if conference a certain way, but but if someone disagrees, it's not because someone disagrees, it's not because someone disagrees, it's not because they're evil and they're trying to they're evil and they're trying to they're evil and they're trying to torpedo an event. They just have a torpedo an event. They just have a torpedo an event. They just have a different opinion, which is wrong. Yeah. different opinion, which is wrong. Yeah. different opinion, which is wrong. Yeah. Our our opinions are the superior Our our opinions are the superior Our our opinions are the superior opinions. Of course. Um do you believe opinions. Of course. Um do you believe opinions. Of course. Um do you believe in the whole uh have you heard that in the whole uh have you heard that in the whole uh have you heard that term? Is it like uh compliment? No.

term? Is it like uh compliment? No. term? Is it like uh compliment? No. Feedback bookends. Oh yeah. Is it kiss? Feedback bookends. Oh yeah. Is it kiss? Feedback bookends. Oh yeah. Is it kiss? Yeah. I actually think that that's Yeah. I actually think that that's Yeah. I actually think that that's probably a wise practice. Yeah. That's probably a wise practice. Yeah. That's probably a wise practice. Yeah. That's constructive. It makes it easy because constructive. It makes it easy because constructive. It makes it easy because if you just come in raw and like, "Hey if you just come in raw and like, "Hey if you just come in raw and like, "Hey Scott, that sucked." Scott, that sucked." Scott, that sucked." It's really hard for you to accept that It's really hard for you to accept that It's really hard for you to accept that cuz you're immediately on the defense. cuz you're immediately on the defense. cuz you're immediately on the defense. Yeah. Yeah, you're immediately like, Yeah. Yeah, you're immediately like, Yeah. Yeah, you're immediately like, "Wow, you're an ass." Um, I'm just going "Wow, you're an ass." Um, I'm just going "Wow, you're an ass." Um, I'm just going to reject everything you say. And by the to reject everything you say. And by the to reject everything you say. And by the way, and I'm not listening now because way, and I'm not listening now because way, and I'm not listening now because I'm so mad. I'm so mad. I'm so mad. Yeah. Yeah. Versus Scott, man, there was Yeah. Yeah. Versus Scott, man, there was Yeah. Yeah. Versus Scott, man, there was some really awesome stuff you just did some really awesome stuff you just did some really awesome stuff you just did there. there. there. It's got good bones. Yeah. Here's some It's got good bones. Yeah. Here's some It's got good bones. Yeah. Here's some ways to improve it. ways to improve it. ways to improve it. Yeah. Here's here's to make it suck Yeah. Here's here's to make it suck Yeah. Here's here's to make it suck less. That would have helped. That would less. That would have helped. That would less. That would have helped. That would have hoped. Yeah. Yeah. There's nothing have hoped. Yeah. Yeah. There's nothing have hoped. Yeah. Yeah. There's nothing here. It is unredeemable. it's not here. It is unredeemable. it's not here. It is unredeemable. it's not redeemable is is is less helpful. So redeemable is is is less helpful. So redeemable is is is less helpful. So yeah, so constructive feedback should be yeah, so constructive feedback should be yeah, so constructive feedback should be provided with like this was not entirely provided with like this was not entirely provided with like this was not entirely uh irredeemable. Yeah. And actually uh irredeemable. Yeah. And actually uh irredeemable. Yeah. And actually making it clear I think making it clear I think making it clear I think that b makes it clear that you're coming that b makes it clear that you're coming that b makes it clear that you're coming from a place of positive intent as well, from a place of positive intent as well, from a place of positive intent as well, not just not just not just y not trying to tear people down. You y not trying to tear people down. You y not trying to tear people down. You def you did your PhD on something def you did your PhD on something def you did your PhD on something interesting. Did you have to like did interesting. Did you have to like did interesting. Did you have to like did anyone ever give you really horrible anyone ever give you really horrible anyone ever give you really horrible feedback and like tell you that it was feedback and like tell you that it was feedback and like tell you that it was trash or you just like sailed your way trash or you just like sailed your way trash or you just like sailed your way into failed doctorate it? Yeah. Super into failed doctorate it? Yeah. Super into failed doctorate it? Yeah. Super easy. Yeah. No one even rubber stamp.

easy. Yeah. No one even rubber stamp. easy. Yeah. No one even rubber stamp. Rubber stamp. Rubber stamp. Rubber stamp. Have you got any good give me some give Have you got any good give me some give Have you got any good give me some give me some feedback story. Surely Sier or me some feedback story. Surely Sier or me some feedback story. Surely Sier or someone has called you and said knock it someone has called you and said knock it someone has called you and said knock it off dude. Stop tweeting about that. off dude. Stop tweeting about that. off dude. Stop tweeting about that. [Music] [Music] [Music] Um well I I actually at the MVP summit Um well I I actually at the MVP summit Um well I I actually at the MVP summit which I had a blast at. Yeah. I gave a which I had a blast at. Yeah. I gave a which I had a blast at. Yeah. I gave a talk on the history of Azure. Oh yeah talk on the history of Azure. Oh yeah talk on the history of Azure. Oh yeah yeah a talk about the history of Azure yeah a talk about the history of Azure yeah a talk about the history of Azure and then where Azure's going. Yeah. I and then where Azure's going. Yeah. I and then where Azure's going. Yeah. I reviewed your slides and you all my reviewed your slides and you all my reviewed your slides and you all my suggestions. So, so one one story um was suggestions. So, so one one story um was suggestions. So, so one one story um was so we had uh Azure started with so we had uh Azure started with so we had uh Azure started with something called Red Dog front end which something called Red Dog front end which something called Red Dog front end which is what implements the they implemented is what implements the they implemented is what implements the they implemented the control plane to Azure and it had a the control plane to Azure and it had a the control plane to Azure and it had a as part of it a cloud service model as part of it a cloud service model as part of it a cloud service model that we was pazbased that we was pazbased that we was pazbased and was that had two types of and was that had two types of and was that had two types of application deployment a web ro and application deployment a web ro and application deployment a web ro and worker worker worker ro and the description of the ro and the description of the ro and the description of the application was the composition of web application was the composition of web application was the composition of web and worker roles plus the networking and worker roles plus the networking and worker roles plus the networking between them and the external between them and the external between them and the external networking. It was very simple. It networking. It was very simple. It networking. It was very simple. It didn't talk about storage disks any didn't talk about storage disks any didn't talk about storage disks any other pass service. That was the cloud other pass service. That was the cloud other pass service. That was the cloud service model. Mhm. And after being in service model. Mhm. And after being in service model. Mhm. And after being in Azure for a year and a for a while I'm Azure for a year and a for a while I'm Azure for a year and a for a while I'm like this this cloud applications are like this this cloud applications are like this this cloud applications are not just compute with the network not just compute with the network not just compute with the network between that connects them. They're between that connects them. They're between that connects them. They're consists of all these other resources.

consists of all these other resources. consists of all these other resources. So So So I uh had become familiar with service I uh had become familiar with service I uh had become familiar with service fabric which had this way of describing fabric which had this way of describing fabric which had this way of describing applications itself again that didn't applications itself again that didn't applications itself again that didn't include these other resources but it was include these other resources but it was include these other resources but it was a declarative model where you described a declarative model where you described a declarative model where you described exactly how these things connected exactly how these things connected exactly how these things connected together together together and I took inspiration from that to and I took inspiration from that to and I took inspiration from that to propose that we create something that propose that we create something that propose that we create something that was an application model that you would was an application model that you would was an application model that you would describe describe describe declaratively and include clude the declaratively and include clude the declaratively and include clude the dependencies on other resources and have dependencies on other resources and have dependencies on other resources and have it be extensible. So that the control it be extensible. So that the control it be extensible. So that the control plane could really model any resource, plane could really model any resource, plane could really model any resource, any service type and that the control any service type and that the control any service type and that the control plane would just be basically a router plane would just be basically a router plane would just be basically a router and a front and a front and a front end. And that the imperative API would end. And that the imperative API would end. And that the imperative API would be the same as the declarative API. So be the same as the declarative API. So be the same as the declarative API. So you could support templatebased you could support templatebased you could support templatebased deployments or interact with it, you deployments or interact with it, you deployments or interact with it, you know, with one-off API calls like you know, with one-off API calls like you know, with one-off API calls like you could with RDF. You see how I'm not could with RDF. You see how I'm not could with RDF. You see how I'm not yawning or giving you any kind of yawning or giving you any kind of yawning or giving you any kind of feedback about the length of this story?

feedback about the length of this story? feedback about the length of this story? And I'm wondering where the point is, And I'm wondering where the point is, And I'm wondering where the point is, but I'm doing that because I respect but I'm doing that because I respect but I'm doing that because I respect you. I appreciate that. But thanks for you. I appreciate that. But thanks for you. I appreciate that. But thanks for the message that I should I'm wondering the message that I should I'm wondering the message that I should I'm wondering I'm wondering how this had this is I'm wondering how this had this is I'm wondering how this had this is constructive feedback that you've constructive feedback that you've constructive feedback that you've received Microsoft. All right. So received Microsoft. All right. So received Microsoft. All right. So anyway, um the bottom line is that what anyway, um the bottom line is that what anyway, um the bottom line is that what I was proposing was ARM. It wasn't I was proposing was ARM. It wasn't I was proposing was ARM. It wasn't called ARM then the Azure Resource called ARM then the Azure Resource called ARM then the Azure Resource Manager. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like very Manager. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like very Manager. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like very excited about it because this is going excited about it because this is going excited about it because this is going to unlock, you know, ability for the to unlock, you know, ability for the to unlock, you know, ability for the cloud to model anything be extensible cloud to model anything be extensible cloud to model anything be extensible even things outside of Azure. Gotcha. So even things outside of Azure. Gotcha. So even things outside of Azure. Gotcha. So I go and I'm like I need to start I go and I'm like I need to start I go and I'm like I need to start socializing this. Um so let me show it socializing this. Um so let me show it socializing this. Um so let me show it share this vision with my bosses and get share this vision with my bosses and get share this vision with my bosses and get them excited about it. So I schedule a them excited about it. So I schedule a them excited about it. So I schedule a meeting with Jason Xander and Scott meeting with Jason Xander and Scott meeting with Jason Xander and Scott Guthrie who were the dev and PM PM and Guthrie who were the dev and PM PM and Guthrie who were the dev and PM PM and or dev and PM heads for Azure at the or dev and PM heads for Azure at the or dev and PM heads for Azure at the time reporting to Satcha. So, uh, I time reporting to Satcha. So, uh, I time reporting to Satcha. So, uh, I schedule the meeting and I have a paper schedule the meeting and I have a paper schedule the meeting and I have a paper written up about it and they read the written up about it and they read the written up about it and they read the paper and then I like So, they they paper and then I like So, they they paper and then I like So, they they finish it and Scott's finish it and Scott's finish it and Scott's like, like, like, "Um, this would be good for modeling, I "Um, this would be good for modeling, I "Um, this would be good for modeling, I think, SharePoint sites." Oh, and and think, SharePoint sites." Oh, and and think, SharePoint sites." Oh, and and Jason's like, because SharePoint sites Jason's like, because SharePoint sites Jason's like, because SharePoint sites are like these IAS deployments of a are like these IAS deployments of a are like these IAS deployments of a bunch of things. And Jason's like, bunch of things. And Jason's like, bunch of things. And Jason's like, "Yeah, it's "Yeah, it's "Yeah, it's interesting." And I'm like, "Okay."

interesting." And I'm like, "Okay." interesting." And I'm like, "Okay." Um, yeah. All right. Well, well, thanks. Um, yeah. All right. Well, well, thanks. Um, yeah. All right. Well, well, thanks. And then the meeting ended and I'm like, And then the meeting ended and I'm like, And then the meeting ended and I'm like, that's not the reaction I was hoping that's not the reaction I was hoping that's not the reaction I was hoping for. You were hoping then for the see for. You were hoping then for the see for. You were hoping then for the see your genius and run with it. Yeah, I'm your genius and run with it. Yeah, I'm your genius and run with it. Yeah, I'm picking up what you're putting down. picking up what you're putting down. picking up what you're putting down. Yeah, let's do this. And they were very Yeah, let's do this. And they were very Yeah, let's do this. And they were very much like, much like, much like, yeah, interesting. Uh, that's how I felt yeah, interesting. Uh, that's how I felt yeah, interesting. Uh, that's how I felt going into my talk. Yeah. So, I wanted going into my talk. Yeah. So, I wanted going into my talk. Yeah. So, I wanted to be buoied into the next step and it to be buoied into the next step and it to be buoied into the next step and it did not happen. So that that's uh and did not happen. So that that's uh and did not happen. So that that's uh and you know ARM got made anyway and but you know ARM got made anyway and but you know ARM got made anyway and but that was the an example of oh man I came that was the an example of oh man I came that was the an example of oh man I came out of that going wow what just happened out of that going wow what just happened out of that going wow what just happened that was didn't go anything like I that was didn't go anything like I that was didn't go anything like I expected it to. When you get feedback expected it to. When you get feedback expected it to. When you get feedback like that do did it make you doubt like that do did it make you doubt like that do did it make you doubt yourself and your team and say like well yourself and your team and say like well yourself and your team and say like well maybe they're right or did it just was maybe they're right or did it just was maybe they're right or did it just was it could have been the presentation it could have been the presentation it could have been the presentation wasn't tight? Um like why didn't it wasn't tight? Um like why didn't it wasn't tight? Um like why didn't it land? I know why mine didn't land. I I land? I know why mine didn't land. I I land? I know why mine didn't land. I I think think think [Music] [Music] [Music] um I Yeah, I have to say it's probably um I Yeah, I have to say it's probably um I Yeah, I have to say it's probably the the selling of it that I didn't do. the the selling of it that I didn't do. the the selling of it that I didn't do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um and maybe they were busy thinking Um and maybe they were busy thinking Um and maybe they were busy thinking about other things had other priorities about other things had other priorities about other things had other priorities and this is like okay so maybe in the and this is like okay so maybe in the and this is like okay so maybe in the future at some point you know not future at some point you know not future at some point you know not directly connecting to what their directly connecting to what their directly connecting to what their current priorities current priorities current priorities were is why they weren't didn't get were is why they weren't didn't get were is why they weren't didn't get enthusiastic about it. But I didn't let enthusiastic about it. But I didn't let enthusiastic about it. But I didn't let I didn't lose any con conviction in the I didn't lose any con conviction in the I didn't lose any con conviction in the idea.

idea. idea. See, that's really good. I like that See, that's really good. I like that See, that's really good. I like that because there's feedback. There's the because there's feedback. There's the because there's feedback. There's the con context within which the feedback con context within which the feedback con context within which the feedback occurs. It could be a like landing a occurs. It could be a like landing a occurs. It could be a like landing a story like that on a Thursday at 2 could story like that on a Thursday at 2 could story like that on a Thursday at 2 could land very differently than at Monday at land very differently than at Monday at land very differently than at Monday at 9:00 a.m. of the first meeting of the 9:00 a.m. of the first meeting of the 9:00 a.m. of the first meeting of the day. You don't know where that per where day. You don't know where that per where day. You don't know where that per where Jason and Scott were in that moment. Jason and Scott were in that moment. Jason and Scott were in that moment. Just like I don't know where my feedback Just like I don't know where my feedback Just like I don't know where my feedback folks were in the presentation today. I folks were in the presentation today. I folks were in the presentation today. I wasn't at my best. My blood sugar was wasn't at my best. My blood sugar was wasn't at my best. My blood sugar was wrong. There's 50 reasons and context wrong. There's 50 reasons and context wrong. There's 50 reasons and context why it could be perfect or not. And why it could be perfect or not. And why it could be perfect or not. And being able to look at the the the the being able to look at the the the the being able to look at the the the the holistic view of the feedback and the holistic view of the feedback and the holistic view of the feedback and the context in which it was given while context in which it was given while context in which it was given while still holding on to your convictions. still holding on to your convictions. still holding on to your convictions. Like I know my idea is still good. I Like I know my idea is still good. I Like I know my idea is still good. I just need to reframe it. So even while just need to reframe it. So even while just need to reframe it. So even while even though I came out of it thinking I even though I came out of it thinking I even though I came out of it thinking I need to torch this, I'm not really going need to torch this, I'm not really going need to torch this, I'm not really going to torch it because there's a core to torch it because there's a core to torch it because there's a core there. There's a steel core that I'm not there. There's a steel core that I'm not there. There's a steel core that I'm not going to let go of. And you didn't let going to let go of. And you didn't let going to let go of. And you didn't let go of yours either. Yeah. I think that go of yours either. Yeah. I think that go of yours either. Yeah. I think that that's the key is like to look at again that's the key is like to look at again that's the key is like to look at again to look at the feedback and what's the to look at the feedback and what's the to look at the feedback and what's the feedback on actually. Did I get feedback feedback on actually. Did I get feedback feedback on actually. Did I get feedback on the idea? Did I get feedback on my on the idea? Did I get feedback on my on the idea? Did I get feedback on my presentation of the idea? Mhm. Did I get presentation of the idea? Mhm. Did I get presentation of the idea? Mhm. Did I get no feedback at all really because no feedback at all really because no feedback at all really because there's external externalities there. By there's external externalities there. By there's external externalities there. By the way, the interesting study, this was the way, the interesting study, this was the way, the interesting study, this was I don't know 20 years ago of judges and I don't know 20 years ago of judges and I don't know 20 years ago of judges and the the the uh the um uh sentences, the severess of uh the um uh sentences, the severess of uh the um uh sentences, the severess of sentences they would um hand down. They sentences they would um hand down. They sentences they would um hand down. They did a study of judges of did a study of judges of did a study of judges of of ones handed down before lunch and of ones handed down before lunch and of ones handed down before lunch and after lunch and found the ones after

after lunch and found the ones after after lunch and found the ones after lunch were more severe. lunch were more severe. lunch were more severe. when the judge is full on lunch and go when the judge is full on lunch and go when the judge is full on lunch and go to jail for more years. Yeah, that's to jail for more years. Yeah, that's to jail for more years. Yeah, that's messed up. Yeah. messed up. Yeah. messed up. Yeah. See, I don't like a 9:00 am meeting and See, I don't like a 9:00 am meeting and See, I don't like a 9:00 am meeting and who I am at 9:00 a.m. is very different who I am at 9:00 a.m. is very different who I am at 9:00 a.m. is very different than who I am at 3 on a Friday. And I I than who I am at 3 on a Friday. And I I than who I am at 3 on a Friday. And I I know that about myself. So, like knowing know that about myself. So, like knowing know that about myself. So, like knowing your own biases. your own biases. your own biases. Um I also know that like in the feedback Um I also know that like in the feedback Um I also know that like in the feedback that I got today that there's a bunch of that I got today that there's a bunch of that I got today that there's a bunch of other stuff that has to do with the other stuff that has to do with the other stuff that has to do with the organizing the event that's got nothing organizing the event that's got nothing organizing the event that's got nothing to do with me. like they got books to to do with me. like they got books to to do with me. like they got books to publish and snacks and caterers to call publish and snacks and caterers to call publish and snacks and caterers to call and all this kind of stuff and now they and all this kind of stuff and now they and all this kind of stuff and now they have a new problem which is me and my have a new problem which is me and my have a new problem which is me and my talk sucking. So like you know you you talk sucking. So like you know you you talk sucking. So like you know you you you you need to know if someone's in the you you need to know if someone's in the you you need to know if someone's in the right headsp space. And actually this is right headsp space. And actually this is right headsp space. And actually this is this headsp space thing is interesting. this headsp space thing is interesting. this headsp space thing is interesting. I I I started asking everyone before my I I I started asking everyone before my I I I started asking everyone before my podcasts podcasts podcasts uh if they're in a good place for this uh if they're in a good place for this uh if they're in a good place for this right now. And like literally 50% of right now. And like literally 50% of right now. And like literally 50% of them are like wow no one's ever asked me them are like wow no one's ever asked me them are like wow no one's ever asked me that before and thank you. And some of that before and thank you. And some of that before and thank you. And some of them will go and say, you know, I'm I'm them will go and say, you know, I'm I'm them will go and say, you know, I'm I'm not in the right headsp space to do what not in the right headsp space to do what not in the right headsp space to do what happens in that you you postpone it. So happens in that you you postpone it. So happens in that you you postpone it. So yeah, I'll postpone it. Like it could be yeah, I'll postpone it. Like it could be yeah, I'll postpone it. Like it could be that like one person had a death in the that like one person had a death in the that like one person had a death in the family. No, I'm fine. You're the one family. No, I'm fine. You're the one family. No, I'm fine. You're the one with the problem. No. Um when I uh you with the problem. No. Um when I uh you with the problem. No. Um when I uh you know, you just don't know. They could know, you just don't know. They could know, you just don't know. They could have come from a funeral. You just don't have come from a funeral. You just don't have come from a funeral. You just don't know. And I wish that we had We don't know. And I wish that we had We don't know. And I wish that we had We don't get in the corporate world, you don't get in the corporate world, you don't get in the corporate world, you don't get to choose when the feedback comes get to choose when the feedback comes get to choose when the feedback comes and you don't get to choose when the and you don't get to choose when the and you don't get to choose when the meeting with Scott Guthrie happens. You meeting with Scott Guthrie happens. You meeting with Scott Guthrie happens. You just have to show up and hope for the just have to show up and hope for the just have to show up and hope for the best. and the feedback might come wrong best. and the feedback might come wrong best. and the feedback might come wrong because they didn't have lunch or they because they didn't have lunch or they because they didn't have lunch or they did and the feedback um could land weird

did and the feedback um could land weird did and the feedback um could land weird because you're not in the right place to because you're not in the right place to because you're not in the right place to receive it. But there's an receive it. But there's an receive it. But there's an intentionality to receiving feedback and intentionality to receiving feedback and intentionality to receiving feedback and giving feedback that I think uh giving feedback that I think uh giving feedback that I think uh hopefully grows the longer you get into hopefully grows the longer you get into hopefully grows the longer you get into your career. Yeah. And being I think uh your career. Yeah. And being I think uh your career. Yeah. And being I think uh being conscious of your reaction. Mhm. being conscious of your reaction. Mhm. being conscious of your reaction. Mhm. And by the way, that takes me into I And by the way, that takes me into I And by the way, that takes me into I think something we talked about before. think something we talked about before. think something we talked about before. Breathing. Breathing. Breathing. Power. Power poses. Yeah. And And Power. Power poses. Yeah. And And Power. Power poses. Yeah. And And breathing like Yeah. Cuz breathing like Yeah. Cuz breathing like Yeah. Cuz breathing makes you conscious of what's breathing makes you conscious of what's breathing makes you conscious of what's going going going on. You know, like if somebody's giving on. You know, like if somebody's giving on. You know, like if somebody's giving you I you I you I I'm maybe when you got that negative I'm maybe when you got that negative I'm maybe when you got that negative feedback, you held your breath. feedback, you held your breath. feedback, you held your breath. That is very true. I'm thinking about That is very true. I'm thinking about That is very true. I'm thinking about that now. You're absolutely right. I that now. You're absolutely right. I that now. You're absolutely right. I probably like leaned back and I went probably like leaned back and I went probably like leaned back and I went like this and I probably paused my like this and I probably paused my like this and I probably paused my entire body. Yeah. entire body. Yeah. entire body. Yeah. Which makes it harder for you to receive Which makes it harder for you to receive Which makes it harder for you to receive it in a constructive way.

it in a constructive way. it in a constructive way. And at one point, one of the gentlemen And at one point, one of the gentlemen And at one point, one of the gentlemen said, "Don't interrupt me." said, "Don't interrupt me." said, "Don't interrupt me." Wow. Did you interrupt? I I did because Wow. Did you interrupt? I I did because Wow. Did you interrupt? I I did because I was trying to I was trying to I was trying to say that I heard it. Oh. But I was also say that I heard it. Oh. But I was also say that I heard it. Oh. But I was also trying to say I don't want anymore. Make trying to say I don't want anymore. Make trying to say I don't want anymore. Make it stop. It was kind It was one of those it stop. It was kind It was one of those it stop. It was kind It was one of those like I get it. I get it. It's like no like I get it. I get it. It's like no like I get it. I get it. It's like no don't interrupt me. I'm not done. And don't interrupt me. I'm not done. And don't interrupt me. I'm not done. And it's like and then I have to like take it's like and then I have to like take it's like and then I have to like take take the feedback. So it was more like a take the feedback. So it was more like a take the feedback. So it was more like a I want to escape now. It's like nope you I want to escape now. It's like nope you I want to escape now. It's like nope you can't escape yet. We're not finished. can't escape yet. We're not finished. can't escape yet. We're not finished. And and that's valid. And being able to And and that's valid. And being able to And and that's valid. And being able to be in the place to receive that I think be in the place to receive that I think be in the place to receive that I think is important. is important. is important. Yeah. That's pretty humbling. I bet you Yeah. That's pretty humbling. I bet you Yeah. That's pretty humbling. I bet you haven't had an experience like that in a haven't had an experience like that in a haven't had an experience like that in a long time. Oh no. That's Yeah. I mean, long time. Oh no. That's Yeah. I mean, long time. Oh no. That's Yeah. I mean, you you you probably haven't either. I you you you probably haven't either. I you you you probably haven't either. I mean, you give talks and everyone's mean, you give talks and everyone's mean, you give talks and everyone's like, "Oh, the great Markovich is that's like, "Oh, the great Markovich is that's like, "Oh, the great Markovich is that's the great best talk I've ever seen." You the great best talk I've ever seen." You the great best talk I've ever seen." You know, but that's not my audience. Yeah. know, but that's not my audience. Yeah. know, but that's not my audience. Yeah. And uh and they know more than I do. So, And uh and they know more than I do. So, And uh and they know more than I do. So, difficult, very, very difficult to difficult, very, very difficult to difficult, very, very difficult to receive. But I do have a great speaker receive. But I do have a great speaker receive. But I do have a great speaker coach and I'll do my best to make it not coach and I'll do my best to make it not coach and I'll do my best to make it not suck.

suck. suck. So, I did, speaking of speaking coaches, So, I did, speaking of speaking coaches, So, I did, speaking of speaking coaches, I did um there was a speaking coach, I I did um there was a speaking coach, I I did um there was a speaking coach, I can't remember his name, that did Oh, can't remember his name, that did Oh, can't remember his name, that did Oh, that one guy who always did that for his that one guy who always did that for his that one guy who always did that for his name Richard. Oh, yeah. Richard. Richard name Richard. Oh, yeah. Richard. Richard name Richard. Oh, yeah. Richard. Richard Cle. Richard Cle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I Cle. Richard Cle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I Cle. Richard Cle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I did him. So, I did him. That was brutal. did him. So, I did him. That was brutal. did him. So, I did him. That was brutal. Yeah. Yeah. He didn't mess around. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He didn't mess around. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He didn't mess around. Yeah. Because, you know, his job is to poke Because, you know, his job is to poke Because, you know, his job is to poke out po point out everything that it out po point out everything that it out po point out everything that it you're not doing perfectly or how and you're not doing perfectly or how and you're not doing perfectly or how and how you can improve. And so, you know, how you can improve. And so, you know, how you can improve. And so, you know, I'd been giving top-rated sessions I'd been giving top-rated sessions I'd been giving top-rated sessions forever, and I'm like, I let me go do forever, and I'm like, I let me go do forever, and I'm like, I let me go do this. I might learn something to be even this. I might learn something to be even this. I might learn something to be even better. And the feedback was like, better. And the feedback was like, better. And the feedback was like, you're pausing, you're stuttering, you're pausing, you're stuttering, you're pausing, you're stuttering, you're you you redid these words. Uh, you're you you redid these words. Uh, you're you you redid these words. Uh, get your hands out of your pockets. Get get your hands out of your pockets. Get get your hands out of your pockets. Get your hands out of your pockets. Uh, your hands out of your pockets. Uh, your hands out of your pockets. Uh, you're not looking at the audience you're not looking at the audience you're not looking at the audience enough. Um, you're reading your slot. enough. Um, you're reading your slot. enough. Um, you're reading your slot. You know, it was like stuff like, well, You know, it was like stuff like, well, You know, it was like stuff like, well, I didn't realize that I had those ticks I didn't realize that I had those ticks I didn't realize that I had those ticks and those mannerisms to the depth that and those mannerisms to the depth that and those mannerisms to the depth that he just called me out on. Um, so that he just called me out on. Um, so that he just called me out on. Um, so that was it was painful. Yeah. Because I I was it was painful. Yeah. Because I I was it was painful. Yeah. Because I I imagine myself like I'm a smooth talker.

imagine myself like I'm a smooth talker. imagine myself like I'm a smooth talker. I don't do any of those things. I don't do any of those things. I don't do any of those things. Yeah. That's why I don't watch my talks. Yeah. That's why I don't watch my talks. Yeah. That's why I don't watch my talks. Watch my talks afterwards. But you get Watch my talks afterwards. But you get Watch my talks afterwards. But you get to then pick the feedback. This is the to then pick the feedback. This is the to then pick the feedback. This is the other thing people don't realize is that other thing people don't realize is that other thing people don't realize is that feedback is advice and you do not need feedback is advice and you do not need feedback is advice and you do not need to take it all. You can pick and choose. to take it all. You can pick and choose. to take it all. You can pick and choose. It's a cafeteria. I'm sure you picked It's a cafeteria. I'm sure you picked It's a cafeteria. I'm sure you picked some of those things and you still the some of those things and you still the some of those things and you still the fact that we're still talking about fact that we're still talking about fact that we're still talking about Richard all these years later. I did Richard all these years later. I did Richard all these years later. I did that speaker training 10 years ago. that speaker training 10 years ago. that speaker training 10 years ago. Shows that he was probably right. Yeah, Shows that he was probably right. Yeah, Shows that he was probably right. Yeah, he was. I mean, it was he was very valid he was. I mean, it was he was very valid he was. I mean, it was he was very valid with that stuff. Yeah. And some of that with that stuff. Yeah. And some of that with that stuff. Yeah. And some of that stuff I'm like, that's just who I am. Um stuff I'm like, that's just who I am. Um stuff I'm like, that's just who I am. Um I could try to work on getting rid of I could try to work on getting rid of I could try to work on getting rid of it, but probably not worth it. Um but at it, but probably not worth it. Um but at it, but probably not worth it. Um but at least I'm aware of least I'm aware of least I'm aware of it. Okay. Thanks. Okay. All right. Let's it. Okay. Thanks. Okay. All right. Let's it. Okay. Thanks. Okay. All right. Let's critique each other's next talks. Oh critique each other's next talks. Oh critique each other's next talks. Oh god. The problem is it'll end up being a god. The problem is it'll end up being a god. The problem is it'll end up being a joint talk and you'll be like, "You're joint talk and you'll be like, "You're joint talk and you'll be like, "You're standing too close to me. You're standing too close to me. You're standing too close to me. You're standing." standing." standing." H I think though that we got to have H I think though that we got to have H I think though that we got to have people stick around in tech long enough people stick around in tech long enough people stick around in tech long enough so that they can get this feedback and so that they can get this feedback and so that they can get this feedback and feel confident in their jobs and their feel confident in their jobs and their feel confident in their jobs and their abilities and their their work to get abilities and their their work to get abilities and their their work to get feedback and look at it as a gift as feedback and look at it as a gift as feedback and look at it as a gift as opposed to an attack. And I think that's opposed to an attack. And I think that's opposed to an attack. And I think that's ultimately where I would agree end it.

ultimately where I would agree end it. ultimately where I would agree end it. Yeah. Cool. Scott and Mark learned to give Cool. Scott and Mark learned to give feedback and feedback and feedback and receive. That's a show. I didn't think receive. That's a show. I didn't think receive. That's a show. I didn't think you did that well with that closing. Why you did that well with that closing. Why you did that well with that closing. Why did you do it better? Huh? Those who did you do it better? Huh? Those who did you do it better? Huh? Those who can't teach, right? Ouch. You some kind of film critic. Ouch. You some kind of film critic. Didn't go to film school. No. Uh, Didn't go to film school. No. Uh, Didn't go to film school. No. Uh, please, why don't you do it and we'll please, why don't you do it and we'll please, why don't you do it and we'll critique each other. Thank you for that critique each other. Thank you for that critique each other. Thank you for that feedback. I receive it with the gift and feedback. I receive it with the gift and feedback. I receive it with the gift and the intent that it was given. the intent that it was given. the intent that it was given. That's good enough. That's good enough. That's good enough. That's the opening line.