EPISODE 28 - Scott and Mark Learn To… Second Brain

Can you ask Can you ask co-pilot what we Can you ask Can you ask co-pilot what we should talk about? should talk about? should talk about? >> Look, have it look at our um >> Look, have it look at our um >> Look, have it look at our um >> That's a good idea. Let me do that >> That's a good idea. Let me do that >> That's a good idea. Let me do that >> podcast and say what should they talk >> podcast and say what should they talk >> podcast and say what should they talk about next? about next? about next? >> Doesn't that mean that this doesn't this >> Doesn't that mean that this doesn't this >> Doesn't that mean that this doesn't this literally mean this is the der of literally mean this is the der of literally mean this is the der of creativity? What you're just describing? creativity? What you're just describing? creativity? What you're just describing? >> Are we just giving just giving giving it >> Are we just giving just giving giving it >> Are we just giving just giving giving it up right now? up right now? up right now? >> I'm cognitively dead. >> I'm cognitively dead. >> I'm cognitively dead. So, I was talking to my buddy Mark, and So, I was talking to my buddy Mark, and So, I was talking to my buddy Mark, and he says that he's cognitively dead. he says that he's cognitively dead. he says that he's cognitively dead. Period. Take a look at this playlist and Period. Take a look at this playlist and Period. Take a look at this playlist and all of our shows and our podcasts, all of our shows and our podcasts, all of our shows and our podcasts, specifically the topics as listed in the specifically the topics as listed in the specifically the topics as listed in the titles and the descriptions, comma. And titles and the descriptions, comma. And titles and the descriptions, comma. And suggest five new shows that we could suggest five new shows that we could suggest five new shows that we could talk about. Period. We do well as an AI talk about. Period. We do well as an AI talk about. Period. We do well as an AI show, comma, but we're thinking that we show, comma, but we're thinking that we show, comma, but we're thinking that we might not want to get pigeonholed. might not want to get pigeonholed. might not want to get pigeonholed. Period. What are some other things we Period. What are some other things we Period. What are some other things we can chat about on the Scott and Mark can chat about on the Scott and Mark can chat about on the Scott and Mark Learn to podcast? Learn to podcast? Learn to podcast? I don't think this is the old I don't think this is the old I don't think this is the old transcriptionist transcriptionist transcriptionist style dictation you need to do. Period. style dictation you need to do. Period. style dictation you need to do. Period. >> That's That's how I do it. Period. It >> That's That's how I do it. Period. It >> That's That's how I do it. Period. It works extremely well. Exclamation point. works extremely well. Exclamation point. works extremely well. Exclamation point. >> Period. >> Period. >> Period. >> I don't like I don't like inferred >> I don't like I don't like inferred >> I don't like I don't like inferred commas.

commas. commas. >> I think why not? >> I think why not? >> I think why not? [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> So, Mark, people ask me all the time, >> So, Mark, people ask me all the time, >> So, Mark, people ask me all the time, "How do you know that? How do you keep "How do you know that? How do you keep "How do you know that? How do you keep up on this? How do you keep track of up on this? How do you keep track of up on this? How do you keep track of stuff?" It used to be a to-do.ext file stuff?" It used to be a to-do.ext file stuff?" It used to be a to-do.ext file on my desktop. It used to be sticky on my desktop. It used to be sticky on my desktop. It used to be sticky notes. notes. notes. >> Well, it was in >> Well, it was in >> Well, it was in >> Is that to keep track of what you're >> Is that to keep track of what you're >> Is that to keep track of what you're doing or to remember things like doing or to remember things like doing or to remember things like remember longterm remember longterm remember longterm >> long-term memory? >> long-term memory? >> long-term memory? >> Really? You >> Really? You >> Really? You >> give me give me an example. Okay. So, >> give me give me an example. Okay. So, >> give me give me an example. Okay. So, there's there's all these little moments there's there's all these little moments there's there's all these little moments where in executive function and not not where in executive function and not not where in executive function and not not executive being in charge of something, executive being in charge of something, executive being in charge of something, but being an adult human, pay a bill, but being an adult human, pay a bill, but being an adult human, pay a bill, take your pills, pick up the milk at the take your pills, pick up the milk at the take your pills, pick up the milk at the store, um don't forget to call soand so, store, um don't forget to call soand so, store, um don't forget to call soand so, remind me that Amanda told me to write a remind me that Amanda told me to write a remind me that Amanda told me to write a paper, Mark said to work on this thing paper, Mark said to work on this thing paper, Mark said to work on this thing over the weekend, uh cuz he's a stern over the weekend, uh cuz he's a stern over the weekend, uh cuz he's a stern taskmaster. like all the different taskmaster. like all the different taskmaster. like all the different things that one has to do in order to things that one has to do in order to things that one has to do in order to like like like >> but there's to-do lists there's the >> but there's to-do lists there's the >> but there's to-do lists there's the article I read on hacker news there's article I read on hacker news there's article I read on hacker news there's links there's like some people have links there's like some people have links there's like some people have really big obsidians or really big really big obsidians or really big really big obsidians or really big notions or really big loops do you have notions or really big loops do you have notions or really big loops do you have a second brain do you have a place where a second brain do you have a place where a second brain do you have a place where all things go a single location all things go a single location all things go a single location >> I generally do this >> I generally do this >> I generally do this >> piece of paper >> piece of paper >> piece of paper >> yeah

>> yeah >> yeah but that this is just to do this is just but that this is just to do this is just but that this is just to do this is just like here are the like here are the like here are the >> and and to by the way I mean Many many >> and and to by the way I mean Many many >> and and to by the way I mean Many many studies show that offloading to to a studies show that offloading to to a studies show that offloading to to a list like this either on computer or list like this either on computer or list like this either on computer or paper paper paper is a huge savings in tax on your brain. is a huge savings in tax on your brain. is a huge savings in tax on your brain. >> And you refer to it after the fact cuz >> And you refer to it after the fact cuz >> And you refer to it after the fact cuz some people say just it's the act of some people say just it's the act of some people say just it's the act of offloading but no one ever looks at offloading but no one ever looks at offloading but no one ever looks at their notes or their notes or their notes or >> they check it off and there's like a >> they check it off and there's like a >> they check it off and there's like a sense of like completion. I've sense of like completion. I've sense of like completion. I've accomplished this. I'm being productive, accomplished this. I'm being productive, accomplished this. I'm being productive, which you might not recognize is if if which you might not recognize is if if which you might not recognize is if if you're not checking it off, if you're you're not checking it off, if you're you're not checking it off, if you're actually just doing it and then going, actually just doing it and then going, actually just doing it and then going, "Okay, next thing." But being able to "Okay, next thing." But being able to "Okay, next thing." But being able to check it off, like there's this, check it off, like there's this, check it off, like there's this, >> you know, sense of accomplishment. >> you know, sense of accomplishment. >> you know, sense of accomplishment. >> Do you have just that one spiral >> Do you have just that one spiral >> Do you have just that one spiral notebook notebook notebook >> or do you have dozens of different >> or do you have dozens of different >> or do you have dozens of different mediums? mediums? mediums? >> No, just this. And I yeah I mean you can >> No, just this. And I yeah I mean you can >> No, just this. And I yeah I mean you can see that's like see that's like see that's like >> okay so that's a that's that's the kind >> okay so that's a that's that's the kind >> okay so that's a that's that's the kind of classic David Allen getting things of classic David Allen getting things of classic David Allen getting things done have one done have one done have one >> source of truth for all things and keep >> source of truth for all things and keep >> source of truth for all things and keep it open all the time and available all it open all the time and available all it open all the time and available all the time.

the time. the time. >> It's informal too. It's not like this is >> It's informal too. It's not like this is >> It's informal too. It's not like this is ri I'm not totally completely rigorous ri I'm not totally completely rigorous ri I'm not totally completely rigorous about it. It's just when I feel like about it. It's just when I feel like about it. It's just when I feel like okay I've got like six things now I need okay I've got like six things now I need okay I've got like six things now I need to keep track of them while I'm doing to keep track of them while I'm doing to keep track of them while I'm doing them. let me write them down and then them. let me write them down and then them. let me write them down and then let me like pick off the easy one and let me like pick off the easy one and let me like pick off the easy one and then go to the harder one and then then go to the harder one and then then go to the harder one and then and just having them listed without the and just having them listed without the and just having them listed without the checks next to them makes me want to go checks next to them makes me want to go checks next to them makes me want to go do them because I'm normally a do them because I'm normally a do them because I'm normally a procrastinator. procrastinator. procrastinator. >> That's a surprising thing to hear about >> That's a surprising thing to hear about >> That's a surprising thing to hear about you. you. you. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> I don't get procrastinator vibes off of >> I don't get procrastinator vibes off of >> I don't get procrastinator vibes off of you. you. you. >> I am an incredible procrastinator, but I >> I am an incredible procrastinator, but I >> I am an incredible procrastinator, but I found it served me well because I've found it served me well because I've found it served me well because I've studied this for a long time. Like why studied this for a long time. Like why studied this for a long time. Like why am I waiting to the last minute for am I waiting to the last minute for am I waiting to the last minute for this? Like now this? Like now this? Like now >> because eventually it'll go away and now >> because eventually it'll go away and now >> because eventually it'll go away and now you don't have to do it. you don't have to do it. you don't have to do it. >> No, actually for the things that you >> No, actually for the things that you >> No, actually for the things that you know won't go away, I still wait till know won't go away, I still wait till know won't go away, I still wait till the last minute or close to the last the last minute or close to the last the last minute or close to the last minute. But you know why I do? minute. But you know why I do? minute. But you know why I do? Actually I find that subconsciously I'm Actually I find that subconsciously I'm Actually I find that subconsciously I'm working on it even if I'm not doing it. working on it even if I'm not doing it. working on it even if I'm not doing it. >> A background agent perhaps. >> A background agent perhaps. >> A background agent perhaps. >> It is like a background activity. And so >> It is like a background activity. And so >> It is like a background activity. And so when I go to sit down it's not like I'm when I go to sit down it's not like I'm when I go to sit down it's not like I'm starting fresh having not thought about starting fresh having not thought about starting fresh having not thought about it at all. That is a really great point it at all. That is a really great point it at all. That is a really great point because there is true procrastination because there is true procrastination because there is true procrastination which is avoidance which is avoidance which is avoidance >> and then there's just I'm chewing on it.

>> and then there's just I'm chewing on it. >> and then there's just I'm chewing on it. You know, it's developing. You know, it's developing. You know, it's developing. >> It feels like avoidance to me. I mean, >> It feels like avoidance to me. I mean, >> It feels like avoidance to me. I mean, >> the uh the altter thing that we've been >> the uh the altter thing that we've been >> the uh the altter thing that we've been talking about like I think there was a talking about like I think there was a talking about like I think there was a sense that I may be procrastinating, but sense that I may be procrastinating, but sense that I may be procrastinating, but it was always there and I was always it was always there and I was always it was always there and I was always kind of coming up with it. kind of coming up with it. kind of coming up with it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And and then I did the talk in Portugal >> And and then I did the talk in Portugal >> And and then I did the talk in Portugal and it went great. and it went great. and it went great. >> And some people were like, man, he just >> And some people were like, man, he just >> And some people were like, man, he just like flew the plane right into the like flew the plane right into the like flew the plane right into the mountain at the last minute. went pull mountain at the last minute. went pull mountain at the last minute. went pull up, pull up, but I felt like I was up, pull up, but I felt like I was up, pull up, but I felt like I was ruminating. I was luxuriating in the ruminating. I was luxuriating in the ruminating. I was luxuriating in the idea and then I was ready for it. And idea and then I was ready for it. And idea and then I was ready for it. And then the pressure that it was coming then the pressure that it was coming then the pressure that it was coming next week. next week. next week. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That's the other thing too is I you >> That's the other thing too is I you >> That's the other thing too is I you build up st you're thinking also how build up st you're thinking also how build up st you're thinking also how much effort is this going to take? Is much effort is this going to take? Is much effort is this going to take? Is this like 20 minutes? Is it 2 hours? this like 20 minutes? Is it 2 hours? this like 20 minutes? Is it 2 hours? Because that way you're you're preparing Because that way you're you're preparing Because that way you're you're preparing for the you know, okay, so this thing is for the you know, okay, so this thing is for the you know, okay, so this thing is really going to take me three hours of really going to take me three hours of really going to take me three hours of my time. let me just build up the my time. let me just build up the my time. let me just build up the stamina and okay, here I go rather than stamina and okay, here I go rather than stamina and okay, here I go rather than I start it and I'm like, well, this is I start it and I'm like, well, this is I start it and I'm like, well, this is taking me way longer than I thought and taking me way longer than I thought and taking me way longer than I thought and I need to step back and think about if I need to step back and think about if I need to step back and think about if I'm doing the right thing. Um, so that's I'm doing the right thing. Um, so that's I'm doing the right thing. Um, so that's part of the reason that I think I part of the reason that I think I part of the reason that I think I procrastinate, but and like I said, procrastinate, but and like I said, procrastinate, but and like I said, there's some stress to it, too. But then there's some stress to it, too. But then there's some stress to it, too. But then I'm like, I know this will work out.

I'm like, I know this will work out. I'm like, I know this will work out. I've done this my whole life. I've done this my whole life. I've done this my whole life. >> Okay, so this is a great point. So, >> Okay, so this is a great point. So, >> Okay, so this is a great point. So, we're of a certain age where this is not we're of a certain age where this is not we're of a certain age where this is not new information about ourselves, right? new information about ourselves, right? new information about ourselves, right? We're like, people know that panic is We're like, people know that panic is We're like, people know that panic is part of my process. part of my process. part of my process. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You've been backstage with me while I >> You've been backstage with me while I >> You've been backstage with me while I panic and now it's just like panic and now it's just like panic and now it's just like >> it's not pretty >> it's not pretty >> it's not pretty filming. [laughter] filming. [laughter] filming. [laughter] >> Let this man freak out because, you >> Let this man freak out because, you >> Let this man freak out because, you know, it's going to be know, it's going to be know, it's going to be >> have your episode, you know, I I step >> have your episode, you know, I I step >> have your episode, you know, I I step away. away. away. Stay stay out of your arms reach. Stay stay out of your arms reach. Stay stay out of your arms reach. >> And it's like it's a low-key panic. It's >> And it's like it's a low-key panic. It's >> And it's like it's a low-key panic. It's a lowercase P panic because on a panic a lowercase P panic because on a panic a lowercase P panic because on a panic attack attack attack >> it's just like yeah and then it's like I >> it's just like yeah and then it's like I >> it's just like yeah and then it's like I know it'll be fine because I've done it know it'll be fine because I've done it know it'll be fine because I've done it before and you build that that sense of before and you build that that sense of before and you build that that sense of yourself. So like once you have a system yourself. So like once you have a system yourself. So like once you have a system that works go with it. And I think that works go with it. And I think that works go with it. And I think that's an important thing to note is that's an important thing to note is that's an important thing to note is that when you're younger or you're that when you're younger or you're that when you're younger or you're earlier in career earlier in career earlier in career >> try different stuff. Maybe it's a spiral >> try different stuff. Maybe it's a spiral >> try different stuff. Maybe it's a spiral notebook. Maybe it's a text file. Maybe notebook. Maybe it's a text file. Maybe notebook. Maybe it's a text file. Maybe it's freaking Git. There's always it's freaking Git. There's always it's freaking Git. There's always somebody who's got their to-do list in somebody who's got their to-do list in somebody who's got their to-do list in Git. Um, but as long as you try a system Git. Um, but as long as you try a system Git. Um, but as long as you try a system until you find until you find until you find >> my to-do list.

>> my to-do list. >> my to-do list. >> Oh god, I've got the uh that remarkable >> Oh god, I've got the uh that remarkable >> Oh god, I've got the uh that remarkable the e- in thing. I've shown you that the e- in thing. I've shown you that the e- in thing. I've shown you that before. before. before. >> You showed it to me. >> You showed it to me. >> You showed it to me. >> Yeah. The the the thing you've got >> Yeah. The the the thing you've got >> Yeah. The the the thing you've got though, it's a little big. It's not like though, it's a little big. It's not like though, it's a little big. It's not like the little notebook that like uh a the little notebook that like uh a the little notebook that like uh a reporter an oldtimey reporter would have reporter an oldtimey reporter would have reporter an oldtimey reporter would have like how do you manage nonwork stuff? like how do you manage nonwork stuff? like how do you manage nonwork stuff? Because that doesn't look like something Because that doesn't look like something Because that doesn't look like something that work that doesn't go anywhere but that work that doesn't go anywhere but that work that doesn't go anywhere but the but the desk, right? the but the desk, right? the but the desk, right? >> Left column is work, right column is >> Left column is work, right column is >> Left column is work, right column is home. home. home. Okay. Okay. Okay. >> You see there's a line down the middle >> You see there's a line down the middle >> You see there's a line down the middle in this notebook. This, by the way, the in this notebook. This, by the way, the in this notebook. This, by the way, the It's not like I went and like shopped. It's not like I went and like shopped. It's not like I went and like shopped. Oh, where's the notebook for this? This Oh, where's the notebook for this? This Oh, where's the notebook for this? This is a notebook that you get in the is a notebook that you get in the is a notebook that you get in the Microsoft's stock room Microsoft's stock room Microsoft's stock room on every floor. Like they've got on every floor. Like they've got on every floor. Like they've got >> Microsoft stolen office supplies is what >> Microsoft stolen office supplies is what >> Microsoft stolen office supplies is what I'm hearing. I'm hearing. I'm hearing. >> It's there for us to steal. [laughter] >> So, okay. This um but it's large though >> So, okay. This um but it's large though is the point I'm making. If you're at is the point I'm making. If you're at is the point I'm making. If you're at Kroger or Fred Meyer or whatever, you're Kroger or Fred Meyer or whatever, you're Kroger or Fred Meyer or whatever, you're not you don't have that. What do you do not you don't have that. What do you do not you don't have that. What do you do about on the move ideas? about on the move ideas? about on the move ideas? >> Oh, I don't Yeah, I don't I just wait >> Oh, I don't Yeah, I don't I just wait >> Oh, I don't Yeah, I don't I just wait and do it. Like I said, it's not it's and do it. Like I said, it's not it's and do it. Like I said, it's not it's not like I'm super formal about this.

not like I'm super formal about this. not like I'm super formal about this. It's It's It's >> Yeah. Okay. It seems pretty formal cuz >> Yeah. Okay. It seems pretty formal cuz >> Yeah. Okay. It seems pretty formal cuz you got a pile of of stuff. you got a pile of of stuff. you got a pile of of stuff. >> This is probably a year. >> This is probably a year. >> This is probably a year. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> cuz I've got over here in my off There >> cuz I've got over here in my off There >> cuz I've got over here in my off There we go. we go. we go. >> I know you've got your whole history >> I know you've got your whole history >> I know you've got your whole history there. I know you. there. I know you. there. I know you. >> Yeah, I've got like a couple of years, >> Yeah, I've got like a couple of years, >> Yeah, I've got like a couple of years, but then I switch to the remarkable. but then I switch to the remarkable. but then I switch to the remarkable. >> I throw them line away after them. I >> I throw them line away after them. I >> I throw them line away after them. I mean, they're just And by the way, mean, they're just And by the way, mean, they're just And by the way, >> throw them away. You throw them away. >> throw them away. You throw them away. >> throw them away. You throw them away. >> Yeah. I also go back and I'm like, I >> Yeah. I also go back and I'm like, I >> Yeah. I also go back and I'm like, I don't even I can't even read my writing, don't even I can't even read my writing, don't even I can't even read my writing, >> dude. You throw them away. I just looked >> dude. You throw them away. I just looked >> dude. You throw them away. I just looked at mine. Mix 2007. at mine. Mix 2007. at mine. Mix 2007. >> That's pretty incredible. So, that's >> That's pretty incredible. So, that's >> That's pretty incredible. So, that's like your diary, I guess. like your diary, I guess. like your diary, I guess. >> Yeah, I guess. But this is not >> Yeah, I guess. But this is not >> Yeah, I guess. But this is not sophisticated sophisticated sophisticated >> like >> like >> like net40. net40. net40. >> It's like net 40 >> It's like net 40 >> It's like net 40 >> 10 minute like remember how you and I do >> 10 minute like remember how you and I do >> 10 minute like remember how you and I do our talks like 10 minutes 20 minutes 30 our talks like 10 minutes 20 minutes 30 our talks like 10 minutes 20 minutes 30 minutes 40. So like demo demo point it minutes 40. So like demo demo point it minutes 40. So like demo demo point it like look at this like look at this like look at this >> it says o data >> it says o data >> it says o data right [snorts] so like demo right [snorts] so like demo right [snorts] so like demo demo with Pablo Castro demo with Pablo Castro demo with Pablo Castro >> uh and then it's like using meth with >> uh and then it's like using meth with >> uh and then it's like using meth with WPF4 WPF4 WPF4 >> entity framework. I remember that. Yeah, >> entity framework. I remember that. Yeah, >> entity framework. I remember that. Yeah, it's CLR4 in process. Um, oh my god. Web it's CLR4 in process. Um, oh my god. Web it's CLR4 in process. Um, oh my god. Web forms versus MVC.

forms versus MVC. forms versus MVC. >> Yeah, you're having major >> Yeah, you're having major >> Yeah, you're having major flashback here. flashback here. flashback here. >> I am. >> I am. >> I am. And like I don't know what I'm doing. I And like I don't know what I'm doing. I And like I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know what is going on here. don't know what is going on here. don't know what is going on here. >> When do you But I don't I don't know >> When do you But I don't I don't know >> When do you But I don't I don't know what that is. what that is. what that is. >> What were you going to say? When do I >> What were you going to say? When do I >> What were you going to say? When do I what? what? what? >> Uh have time to even look back at this. >> Uh have time to even look back at this. >> Uh have time to even look back at this. I mean, I'm just like I mean, I'm just like I mean, I'm just like >> Well, now on the show, right? Here's me >> Well, now on the show, right? Here's me >> Well, now on the show, right? Here's me in a meeting with Bill Staples uh in a meeting with Bill Staples uh in a meeting with Bill Staples uh talking about PHP versus plan 9. Um talking about PHP versus plan 9. Um talking about PHP versus plan 9. Um >> just page after page after page of stuff >> just page after page after page of stuff >> just page after page after page of stuff like this. By the way, like this. By the way, like this. By the way, >> the other thing that I do, by the way, >> the other thing that I do, by the way, >> the other thing that I do, by the way, um for sometimes for collecting links, um for sometimes for collecting links, um for sometimes for collecting links, although it's just hard to be to keep although it's just hard to be to keep although it's just hard to be to keep them organized, like uh funny links, um them organized, like uh funny links, um them organized, like uh funny links, um I I'll throw them into one note. Like I I I'll throw them into one note. Like I I I'll throw them into one note. Like I have uh AI hallucinations like where I have uh AI hallucinations like where I have uh AI hallucinations like where I just toss um the AI the hallucinations just toss um the AI the hallucinations just toss um the AI the hallucinations that I encounter using AI and I just that I encounter using AI and I just that I encounter using AI and I just >> So the ones that we have in our team's >> So the ones that we have in our team's >> So the ones that we have in our team's chat, are those being double double chat, are those being double double chat, are those being double double pasted into both the team chat and one?

pasted into both the team chat and one? pasted into both the team chat and one? >> A lot of them are. Yeah. the ones that >> A lot of them are. Yeah. the ones that >> A lot of them are. Yeah. the ones that I'm so there's AI hallucinations so I I'm so there's AI hallucinations so I I'm so there's AI hallucinations so I assume chat bots but there's the coding assume chat bots but there's the coding assume chat bots but there's the coding ones I've actually got uh folder in one ones I've actually got uh folder in one ones I've actually got uh folder in one note with the project and then I've got note with the project and then I've got note with the project and then I've got the AI craziness screenshots for that the AI craziness screenshots for that the AI craziness screenshots for that project which is now you know multiple project which is now you know multiple project which is now you know multiple dozen examples and growing you know dozen examples and growing you know dozen examples and growing you know >> so I but then I've also got like um you >> so I but then I've also got like um you >> so I but then I've also got like um you know what's going on with know what's going on with know what's going on with um safety and transformer forms or um safety and transformer forms or um safety and transformer forms or jailbreaks. I'll throw in to a OneNote jailbreaks. I'll throw in to a OneNote jailbreaks. I'll throw in to a OneNote page links to papers. page links to papers. page links to papers. >> I I keep trying to wish that I was >> I I keep trying to wish that I was >> I I keep trying to wish that I was organized enough to have like an organized enough to have like an organized enough to have like an Obsidian database or a OneNote. Like I Obsidian database or a OneNote. Like I Obsidian database or a OneNote. Like I see people with like these exquisitely see people with like these exquisitely see people with like these exquisitely organized, organized, organized, you know, hierarchical treeview type you know, hierarchical treeview type you know, hierarchical treeview type knowledge bases like you know the way knowledge bases like you know the way knowledge bases like you know the way that people I don't know if you know that people I don't know if you know that people I don't know if you know about this but the way that people do about this but the way that people do about this but the way that people do their PhDs now in like 2025 are very their PhDs now in like 2025 are very their PhDs now in like 2025 are very much throw everything into a much throw everything into a much throw everything into a hierarchical treebased thing. it'll hierarchical treebased thing. it'll hierarchical treebased thing. it'll generate the the the citations and generate the the the citations and generate the the the citations and everything like knowledgebased systems everything like knowledgebased systems everything like knowledgebased systems are a common thing now but for me this are a common thing now but for me this are a common thing now but for me this is a 10-year-old is a 10-year-old is a 10-year-old >> blog when I get stressed out I >> blog when I get stressed out I >> blog when I get stressed out I synchronized to paper I've been doing synchronized to paper I've been doing synchronized to paper I've been doing this for 20 years but I still feel like this for 20 years but I still feel like this for 20 years but I still feel like maybe I should do better and that I maybe I should do better and that I maybe I should do better and that I deserve a central deserve a central deserve a central synchronized super one note and I keep synchronized super one note and I keep synchronized super one note and I keep coming down to coming down to coming down to >> with any of these things there's effort >> with any of these things there's effort >> with any of these things there's effort effort in the the return on that

effort in the the return on that effort in the the return on that investment of the effort. investment of the effort. investment of the effort. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You think you would get it? Because I >> You think you would get it? Because I >> You think you would get it? Because I have not gone to anything organized and have not gone to anything organized and have not gone to anything organized and I'm not rigorous about it just because I'm not rigorous about it just because I'm not rigorous about it just because that requires effort. You got to be that requires effort. You got to be that requires effort. You got to be consistent about it. consistent about it. consistent about it. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> And then what's the value you're >> And then what's the value you're >> And then what's the value you're getting? Like are you getting the the getting? Like are you getting the the getting? Like are you getting the the return on that time you're spending? return on that time you're spending? return on that time you're spending? >> Well, the thing is that people always >> Well, the thing is that people always >> Well, the thing is that people always the argument that people always make is the argument that people always make is the argument that people always make is that it's not searchable. And I would that it's not searchable. And I would that it's not searchable. And I would argue it hasn't needed to be searchable. argue it hasn't needed to be searchable. argue it hasn't needed to be searchable. >> Why not searchable? What do you mean? >> Why not searchable? What do you mean? >> Why not searchable? What do you mean? >> I'm saying that that you can't search. >> I'm saying that that you can't search. >> I'm saying that that you can't search. You can peruse, you can browse, you can You can peruse, you can browse, you can You can peruse, you can browse, you can explore your notebook, but you can't explore your notebook, but you can't explore your notebook, but you can't search it. search it. search it. >> Oh, you mean the paper one? >> Oh, you mean the paper one? >> Oh, you mean the paper one? >> Well, I don't need to because this is so >> Well, I don't need to because this is so >> Well, I don't need to because this is so ephemeral. ephemeral. ephemeral. >> Okay, >> Okay, >> Okay, >> because I'm not putting the links in >> because I'm not putting the links in >> because I'm not putting the links in there. Um, that's there. Um, that's there. Um, that's >> So, the links live in Oneote and your >> So, the links live in Oneote and your >> So, the links live in Oneote and your to-dos live in to-dos live in to-dos live in >> paper. >> paper. >> paper. >> In paper. And you never need to search >> In paper. And you never need to search >> In paper. And you never need to search for your for your for your >> No, you know, you never search your >> No, you know, you never search your >> No, you know, you never search your notes. notes. notes. >> No. >> No. >> No. >> Okay. So, so what I do is if I haven't >> Okay. So, so what I do is if I haven't >> Okay. So, so what I do is if I haven't finished something that's in the to-do finished something that's in the to-do finished something that's in the to-do list, I'll start a new I'll just do make list, I'll start a new I'll just do make list, I'll start a new I'll just do make a horizontal line to represent the a horizontal line to represent the a horizontal line to represent the current to-do list and I'll just copy current to-do list and I'll just copy current to-do list and I'll just copy then the thing that I haven't finished then the thing that I haven't finished then the thing that I haven't finished to the new one.

to the new one. to the new one. >> Okay. The the tool that I've been using >> Okay. The the tool that I've been using >> Okay. The the tool that I've been using with the the little the remarkable uh e with the the little the remarkable uh e with the the little the remarkable uh e in thing uh it synchronizes all of your in thing uh it synchronizes all of your in thing uh it synchronizes all of your stuff. stuff. stuff. So like So like So like where I'm speaking taekwond do hungs my where I'm speaking taekwond do hungs my where I'm speaking taekwond do hungs my TED talk uh a file you sent me about TED talk uh a file you sent me about TED talk uh a file you sent me about billionaires writing high billionaires writing high billionaires writing high performance.net net code like all this performance.net net code like all this performance.net net code like all this stuff. I think I was doing stuff. I think I was doing stuff. I think I was doing I don't know what I was doing here some I don't know what I was doing here some I don't know what I was doing here some statistical statistical statistical thing you know like hand random math thing you know like hand random math thing you know like hand random math calculations you know calculations you know calculations you know >> what were you doing that for >> what were you doing that for >> what were you doing that for >> I don't probably helping my son with the >> I don't probably helping my son with the >> I don't probably helping my son with the SATs >> like this was like two weeks ago you >> like this was like two weeks ago you know know know >> you but you don't remember >> you but you don't remember >> you but you don't remember >> I don't but this is and that >> I don't but this is and that >> I don't but this is and that [clears throat] there you go and I don't [clears throat] there you go and I don't [clears throat] there you go and I don't remember Because I don't think I've remember Because I don't think I've remember Because I don't think I've realized how much I have offloaded realized how much I have offloaded realized how much I have offloaded stuff.

stuff. stuff. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I think the reason that I sleep like a >> I think the reason that I sleep like a >> I think the reason that I sleep like a baby is that once it's written down, I baby is that once it's written down, I baby is that once it's written down, I can sleep again. You know what I mean? can sleep again. You know what I mean? can sleep again. You know what I mean? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That's so important. That that >> That's so important. That that >> That's so important. That that [clears throat] that goes to why it's [clears throat] that goes to why it's [clears throat] that goes to why it's such a cognitive load off when you just such a cognitive load off when you just such a cognitive load off when you just write down your to-do list. write down your to-do list. write down your to-do list. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I [clears throat] have >> Yeah. Yeah. And I [clears throat] have >> Yeah. Yeah. And I [clears throat] have noticed with my kids that they are not noticed with my kids that they are not noticed with my kids that they are not yet using calendars. yet using calendars. yet using calendars. And I would say if there's one thing And I would say if there's one thing And I would say if there's one thing that takes the cognitive load off for me that takes the cognitive load off for me that takes the cognitive load off for me that what I call the psychic weight. that what I call the psychic weight. that what I call the psychic weight. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> It's not the piece of paper. It's not >> It's not the piece of paper. It's not >> It's not the piece of paper. It's not the to-do list. It's not the remarkable. the to-do list. It's not the remarkable. the to-do list. It's not the remarkable. It's the freaking calendar. Like I've It's the freaking calendar. Like I've It's the freaking calendar. Like I've had tiny lowercase a arguments with my had tiny lowercase a arguments with my had tiny lowercase a arguments with my wife about like what are we doing this wife about like what are we doing this wife about like what are we doing this day or whatever. She's like it's on the day or whatever. She's like it's on the day or whatever. She's like it's on the calendar but she forgot to invite me. calendar but she forgot to invite me. calendar but she forgot to invite me. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And it's like that didn't exist. That's >> And it's like that didn't exist. That's >> And it's like that didn't exist. That's not a thing. not a thing. not a thing. >> Yeah. I think every partner is that >> Yeah. I think every partner is that >> Yeah. I think every partner is that >> we're not going anywhere because I don't >> we're not going anywhere because I don't >> we're not going anywhere because I don't know. I've never heard of that thing, know. I've never heard of that thing, know. I've never heard of that thing, you know. [laughter] you know. [laughter] you know. [laughter] >> Well, I mentioned it to you, but it's >> Well, I mentioned it to you, but it's >> Well, I mentioned it to you, but it's not on the calendar. So, not on the calendar. So, not on the calendar. So, >> h so many arguments can be solved >> h so many arguments can be solved >> h so many arguments can be solved >> by simply having a shared calendar with >> by simply having a shared calendar with >> by simply having a shared calendar with your spouse. So, true. Oh my goodness.

your spouse. So, true. Oh my goodness. your spouse. So, true. Oh my goodness. >> Trying to get the boys to do that um has >> Trying to get the boys to do that um has >> Trying to get the boys to do that um has been really challenging. only now the been really challenging. only now the been really challenging. only now the 20-year-old in college has started to 20-year-old in college has started to 20-year-old in college has started to use the calendar as an authoritative use the calendar as an authoritative use the calendar as an authoritative thing. But it's um I think that's a thing. But it's um I think that's a thing. But it's um I think that's a thing that happens when you're thing that happens when you're thing that happens when you're >> Does that mean you can't keep it all in >> Does that mean you can't keep it all in >> Does that mean you can't keep it all in your head anymore or when it becomes too your head anymore or when it becomes too your head anymore or when it becomes too taxing? You know, I can keep a few taxing? You know, I can keep a few taxing? You know, I can keep a few things and cruise around. things and cruise around. things and cruise around. >> I can't keep anything in my head >> I can't keep anything in my head >> I can't keep anything in my head anymore. anymore. anymore. >> Well, yeah. >> Well, yeah. >> Well, yeah. >> Another thing that I really like that I >> Another thing that I really like that I >> Another thing that I really like that I don't think gets used enough and I think don't think gets used enough and I think don't think gets used enough and I think I've told you about this um was geoenced I've told you about this um was geoenced I've told you about this um was geoenced reminders. reminders. reminders. Have you ever used these on on the Have you ever used these on on the Have you ever used these on on the iPhone? iPhone? iPhone? >> No. Oh, >> No. Oh, >> No. Oh, >> dude. So, you say, "Remind me the next >> dude. So, you say, "Remind me the next >> dude. So, you say, "Remind me the next time I'm at Fred Meyer to buy milk." And time I'm at Fred Meyer to buy milk." And time I'm at Fred Meyer to buy milk." And then you throw it out there. You tell then you throw it out there. You tell then you throw it out there. You tell Siri and you throw it out there and then Siri and you throw it out there and then Siri and you throw it out there and then the next time you enter the geoence, the next time you enter the geoence, the next time you enter the geoence, it'll pop up. it'll pop up. it'll pop up. >> Whoa, I didn't know that. >> Whoa, I didn't know that. >> Whoa, I didn't know that. >> So, dude, it's so good. You can go, >> So, dude, it's so good. You can go, >> So, dude, it's so good. You can go, "Remind me the next time I'm at work to "Remind me the next time I'm at work to "Remind me the next time I'm at work to call my boss." And then it says, "Oh, call my boss." And then it says, "Oh, call my boss." And then it says, "Oh, you don't have a work listed on your you don't have a work listed on your you don't have a work listed on your contact card." So, then you go and you contact card." So, then you go and you contact card." So, then you go and you put in your contact card. You put in put in your contact card. You put in put in your contact card. You put in work. And then the next time you say, work. And then the next time you say, work. And then the next time you say, "Remind me the next time I'm at Fred "Remind me the next time I'm at Fred "Remind me the next time I'm at Fred Meyers to buy milk." And then it pops up Meyers to buy milk." And then it pops up Meyers to buy milk." And then it pops up a thing. And now it says, "When arriving a thing. And now it says, "When arriving a thing. And now it says, "When arriving Fred Meyer."

Fred Meyer." Fred Meyer." >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> buy milk. There it is. Buy milk. >> buy milk. There it is. Buy milk. >> buy milk. There it is. Buy milk. Arriving Fred Meyer. Arriving Fred Meyer. Arriving Fred Meyer. >> I didn't >> I didn't >> I didn't >> Builtin. Builtin. Builtin. So you just >> Builtin. Builtin. Builtin. So you just >> Builtin. Builtin. Builtin. So you just hold the thing and it does the little hold the thing and it does the little hold the thing and it does the little sparkle. sparkle. sparkle. >> Wong. >> Wong. >> Wong. I love the Wong. Yeah. Um, those little I love the Wong. Yeah. Um, those little I love the Wong. Yeah. Um, those little bits of meta of metadata I find really bits of meta of metadata I find really bits of meta of metadata I find really really delightful and I feel like people really delightful and I feel like people really delightful and I feel like people don't utilize that stuff enough. I I go don't utilize that stuff enough. I I go don't utilize that stuff enough. I I go nuts with it. I love it. nuts with it. I love it. nuts with it. I love it. I just had to take insulin and notice my I just had to take insulin and notice my I just had to take insulin and notice my blood sugar is high. blood sugar is high. blood sugar is high. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Sorry. I am paying attention to you, but >> Sorry. I am paying attention to you, but >> Sorry. I am paying attention to you, but I'm also trying not to die. Mark and I'm also trying not to die. Mark and I'm also trying not to die. Mark and Scott learn about the awkward pause. Scott learn about the awkward pause. Scott learn about the awkward pause. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> I think we've drained this one. >> I think we've drained this one. >> I think we've drained this one. >> I think we've drained this one, too. I >> I think we've drained this one, too. I >> I think we've drained this one, too. I just wonder is this something that just just wonder is this something that just just wonder is this something that just everyone has to suffer with or did you everyone has to suffer with or did you everyone has to suffer with or did you did anyone teach us to do this stuff did anyone teach us to do this stuff did anyone teach us to do this stuff because I was big into productivity for because I was big into productivity for because I was big into productivity for a time. I was doing talks and reading a time. I was doing talks and reading a time. I was doing talks and reading books. books. books. >> I never find those things useful. >> I never find those things useful. >> I never find those things useful. >> Thank you for [laughter] >> Thank you for [laughter] >> Thank you for [laughter] on my life's work.

>> You probably had to do this when you got >> You probably had to do this when you got your PhD. How did you organize all the your PhD. How did you organize all the your PhD. How did you organize all the material? Hala. No, there wasn't a lot material? Hala. No, there wasn't a lot material? Hala. No, there wasn't a lot of material to work on this of material to work on this of material to work on this >> citations and references and all that >> citations and references and all that >> citations and references and all that kind of stuff. My wife is working on her kind of stuff. My wife is working on her kind of stuff. My wife is working on her PhD. PhD. PhD. >> I remember this is >> I remember this is >> I remember this is >> overwhelmed with citations. >> overwhelmed with citations. >> overwhelmed with citations. >> I think I put it on punch cards. >> I think I put it on punch cards. >> I think I put it on punch cards. >> No, I'm just kidding. I don't >> I'm going to get makes me I'm going to >> I'm going to get makes me I'm going to get down here into my off. Yeah, get down here into my off. Yeah, get down here into my off. Yeah, >> this is Mark Renovich's >> this is Mark Renovich's >> this is Mark Renovich's >> uh PhD thesis on punch card. You can get >> uh PhD thesis on punch card. You can get >> uh PhD thesis on punch card. You can get that or you can also get the edition. that or you can also get the edition. that or you can also get the edition. >> Uh, I've used those. I've also used >> Uh, I've used those. I've also used >> Uh, I've used those. I've also used punch cards. Have you? punch cards. Have you? punch cards. Have you? >> I I have. You only use punch cards at >> I I have. You only use punch cards at >> I I have. You only use punch cards at the Living Computer Museum. the Living Computer Museum. the Living Computer Museum. >> Oh, but you never >> Oh, but you never >> Oh, but you never >> I have I have made a single-sided disc >> I have I have made a single-sided disc >> I have I have made a single-sided disc double-sided. double-sided. double-sided. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Which I think is an important skill for >> Which I think is an important skill for >> Which I think is an important skill for the young people to have. the young people to have. the young people to have. >> I just have a fond memory when I look at >> I just have a fond memory when I look at >> I just have a fond memory when I look at those floppies. those floppies. those floppies. >> Yeah. [sighs and gasps] Having my >> Yeah. [sighs and gasps] Having my >> Yeah. [sighs and gasps] Having my um little case of floppy disc floppies um little case of floppy disc floppies um little case of floppy disc floppies you'd flip through. I think I told you you'd flip through. I think I told you you'd flip through. I think I told you you got to go to the interim computer you got to go to the interim computer you got to go to the interim computer museum in Tquila.

museum in Tquila. museum in Tquila. >> Yeah. Well, I've been to it. >> Yeah. Well, I've been to it. >> Yeah. Well, I've been to it. Predecessor. Predecessor. Predecessor. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's the place, man. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's the place, man. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's the place, man. I I I >> There's also the computer history museum >> There's also the computer history museum >> There's also the computer history museum in San Francisco. in San Francisco. in San Francisco. >> Yeah. And there's also the Mims uh in >> Yeah. And there's also the Mims uh in >> Yeah. And there's also the Mims uh in Roswell, Georgia. A lot of the the Cray Roswell, Georgia. A lot of the the Cray Roswell, Georgia. A lot of the the Cray is there and a lot of the bigger uh Paul is there and a lot of the bigger uh Paul is there and a lot of the bigger uh Paul Allen stuff is down in Roswell. Allen stuff is down in Roswell. Allen stuff is down in Roswell. >> Well, there was a cray at a piece of >> Well, there was a cray at a piece of >> Well, there was a cray at a piece of array at the Computer History Museum in array at the Computer History Museum in array at the Computer History Museum in Seattle, too. I think it was they they Seattle, too. I think it was they they Seattle, too. I think it was they they they took like 30 or 40 pieces and they they took like 30 or 40 pieces and they they took like 30 or 40 pieces and they split them between the interim computer split them between the interim computer split them between the interim computer museum and Roswell museum and Roswell museum and Roswell >> and the Mims and Roswell. >> and the Mims and Roswell. >> and the Mims and Roswell. >> Cool. Okay. Well, this is uh Scott and >> Cool. Okay. Well, this is uh Scott and >> Cool. Okay. Well, this is uh Scott and Mark learned their about their own Mark learned their about their own Mark learned their about their own second brains. Um the question is then second brains. Um the question is then second brains. Um the question is then can we rag over them with AI or do we can we rag over them with AI or do we can we rag over them with AI or do we even need to? It sounds like we don't even need to? It sounds like we don't even need to? It sounds like we don't need need need >> it to our interns, right? >> it to our interns, right? >> it to our interns, right? >> Give it to our interns so that they can >> Give it to our interns so that they can >> Give it to our interns so that they can hallucinate and tell us that we're hallucinate and tell us that we're hallucinate and tell us that we're absolutely wrong. absolutely wrong. absolutely wrong. >> What's my next thing on the to-do list? >> What's my next thing on the to-do list? >> What's my next thing on the to-do list? Yeah, I think that's at some point Yeah, I think that's at some point Yeah, I think that's at some point that's what we're all going to get. that's what we're all going to get. that's what we're all going to get. We'll all have interns that will keep We'll all have interns that will keep We'll all have interns that will keep track of this kind of stuff. But it is track of this kind of stuff. But it is track of this kind of stuff. But it is funny that I have to tell Siri and the funny that I have to tell Siri and the funny that I have to tell Siri and the paper and like no, there is no true paper and like no, there is no true paper and like no, there is no true second brain right now. There's just a second brain right now. There's just a second brain right now. There's just a hierarchy of of brains.

hierarchy of of brains. hierarchy of of brains. Cool. Well, that's probably an episode. Cool. Well, that's probably an episode. Cool. Well, that's probably an episode. Um, not our finest hour. Um, but I will Um, not our finest hour. Um, but I will Um, not our finest hour. Um, but I will take I will take a note to do better take I will take a note to do better take I will take a note to do better next time. next time. next time. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> All right. Like and subscribe our >> All right. Like and subscribe our >> All right. Like and subscribe our friends and let us know in the comments friends and let us know in the comments friends and let us know in the comments what you use for your own second. what you use for your own second. what you use for your own second. >> Let us know what you think of this kind >> Let us know what you think of this kind >> Let us know what you think of this kind of rambling version of our podcast. of rambling version of our podcast. of rambling version of our podcast. >> Yeah. And give us suggestions on topics, >> Yeah. And give us suggestions on topics, >> Yeah. And give us suggestions on topics, right? Like we've had some shows that right? Like we've had some shows that right? Like we've had some shows that that were very much directly out of the that were very much directly out of the that were very much directly out of the comments, right? This show existed comments, right? This show existed comments, right? This show existed because that person said that would be a because that person said that would be a because that person said that would be a good idea for a show. And then other good idea for a show. And then other good idea for a show. And then other times it's just like this, which is uh times it's just like this, which is uh times it's just like this, which is uh of questionable value.