Forking around (with the Linux Desktop) and Finding Out with Justin Garrison

Hi, I'm Scott Hansselman. This is Hi, I'm Scott Hansselman. This is another episode of Hansel Minutes. Today another episode of Hansel Minutes. Today another episode of Hansel Minutes. Today I'm chatting with Justin Garrison. He's I'm chatting with Justin Garrison. He's I'm chatting with Justin Garrison. He's a co-host of the Forground and Find Out a co-host of the Forground and Find Out a co-host of the Forground and Find Out podcast. You can check him out at podcast. You can check him out at podcast. You can check him out at justingarrison.com. How are you, sir? justingarrison.com. How are you, sir? justingarrison.com. How are you, sir? I'm doing just great, thank you. Um, you I'm doing just great, thank you. Um, you I'm doing just great, thank you. Um, you know, you have such a lovely uh blog at know, you have such a lovely uh blog at know, you have such a lovely uh blog at just garrison.com. It looks like you just garrison.com. It looks like you just garrison.com. It looks like you kind of did what I did was you uh you kind of did what I did was you uh you kind of did what I did was you uh you blogged a lot for a while and then you blogged a lot for a while and then you blogged a lot for a while and then you start sort of just slow down and slow start sort of just slow down and slow start sort of just slow down and slow down a little bit and it looks like down a little bit and it looks like down a little bit and it looks like you're doing about once a month. Is that you're doing about once a month. Is that you're doing about once a month. Is that about right? Yeah, once a month for about right? Yeah, once a month for about right? Yeah, once a month for almost 20 years. Yeah. My cadence. Yeah. almost 20 years. Yeah. My cadence. Yeah. almost 20 years. Yeah. My cadence. Yeah. And that's just a like it's an endurance And that's just a like it's an endurance And that's just a like it's an endurance race, right? This is not a sprint. But race, right? This is not a sprint. But race, right? This is not a sprint. But it does it comes in seasons, right? And it does it comes in seasons, right? And it does it comes in seasons, right? And like I will I will get all the energy to like I will I will get all the energy to like I will I will get all the energy to write all the blogs and then I just write all the blogs and then I just write all the blogs and then I just don't do it for a while. Yeah. Yeah. I don't do it for a while. Yeah. Yeah. I don't do it for a while. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like we are maybe parallel universe feel like we are maybe parallel universe feel like we are maybe parallel universe versions of each other. There could be versions of each other. There could be versions of each other. There could be like some kind of a variant, a Loki like some kind of a variant, a Loki like some kind of a variant, a Loki variant thing going on here. I've been variant thing going on here. I've been variant thing going on here. I've been blogging since 2000 and for the longest blogging since 2000 and for the longest blogging since 2000 and for the longest time, for the first 18 years, it was time, for the first 18 years, it was time, for the first 18 years, it was every Tuesday and Thursday for 20 years. every Tuesday and Thursday for 20 years. every Tuesday and Thursday for 20 years. And then co slowed me down and now I And then co slowed me down and now I And then co slowed me down and now I just roll in whenever I feel like just roll in whenever I feel like just roll in whenever I feel like rolling in. But you've been you're rolling in. But you've been you're rolling in. But you've been you're you're out there. You're putting good you're out there. You're putting good you're out there. You're putting good information out there, which I information out there, which I information out there, which I appreciate. I put the things out there appreciate. I put the things out there appreciate. I put the things out there that I wished existed, right? And that's that I wished existed, right? And that's that I wished existed, right? And that's like most of blogging is for myself, and like most of blogging is for myself, and like most of blogging is for myself, and I don't care if no one ever reads it.

I don't care if no one ever reads it. I don't care if no one ever reads it. And that I think is the the ultimate And that I think is the the ultimate And that I think is the the ultimate goal if you want to keep doing it is do goal if you want to keep doing it is do goal if you want to keep doing it is do it for yourself. That is exactly it. It it for yourself. That is exactly it. It it for yourself. That is exactly it. It is a diary so that you can Google is a diary so that you can Google is a diary so that you can Google yourself later. Yes. I always always am yourself later. Yes. I always always am yourself later. Yes. I always always am the top result of my searches. Yeah. the top result of my searches. Yeah. the top result of my searches. Yeah. When that's when you know you're truly When that's when you know you're truly When that's when you know you're truly alone in the world. Like no one really alone in the world. Like no one really alone in the world. Like no one really understands the pain of googling for understands the pain of googling for understands the pain of googling for something and finding either yourself something and finding either yourself something and finding either yourself asking the question or a blog post where asking the question or a blog post where asking the question or a blog post where you got close but never answered it and you got close but never answered it and you got close but never answered it and then forgetting that you wrote that blog then forgetting that you wrote that blog then forgetting that you wrote that blog post. Yeah. Or answers and comments in post. Yeah. Or answers and comments in post. Yeah. Or answers and comments in in Reddit and other forums and stuff. in Reddit and other forums and stuff. in Reddit and other forums and stuff. And I was like, "Oh, that was me. That And I was like, "Oh, that was me. That And I was like, "Oh, that was me. That was my other account. I totally forgot I was my other account. I totally forgot I was my other account. I totally forgot I did this. Oh, finding your alt. did this. Oh, finding your alt. did this. Oh, finding your alt. That is the worst. That is the worst. That is the worst. That is the worst. That is the worst. That is the worst. Yeah, I think we are parallel universe Yeah, I think we are parallel universe Yeah, I think we are parallel universe versions of each other. That's versions of each other. That's versions of each other. That's hilarious. However, controversial spicy hilarious. However, controversial spicy hilarious. However, controversial spicy take. You uh are running what operating take. You uh are running what operating take. You uh are running what operating system, sir? I'm running a Linux distro system, sir? I'm running a Linux distro system, sir? I'm running a Linux distro called uh Blue Fin on my desktop. Okay. called uh Blue Fin on my desktop. Okay. called uh Blue Fin on my desktop. Okay. So, uh you know, I'm non-denominational So, uh you know, I'm non-denominational So, uh you know, I'm non-denominational and far be it for me to to to I don't and far be it for me to to to I don't and far be it for me to to to I don't pick on anyone because of their pick on anyone because of their pick on anyone because of their religion. Um, I enjoy Windows, but I religion. Um, I enjoy Windows, but I religion. Um, I enjoy Windows, but I also have, you know, a Mac. I've got also have, you know, a Mac. I've got also have, you know, a Mac. I've got Linux machines around. I've got Linux machines around. I've got Linux machines around. I've got Raspberry Pies. Like, my house is a a Raspberry Pies. Like, my house is a a Raspberry Pies. Like, my house is a a cornucopia of operating systems. But I I cornucopia of operating systems. But I I cornucopia of operating systems. But I I would say that my familiarity with Linux would say that my familiarity with Linux would say that my familiarity with Linux kind of stops around Ubuntu. Like it is kind of stops around Ubuntu. Like it is kind of stops around Ubuntu. Like it is that if we think about the pie chart of that if we think about the pie chart of that if we think about the pie chart of Linux on the desktop right now. Can you Linux on the desktop right now. Can you Linux on the desktop right now. Can you help me understand what that pie chart help me understand what that pie chart help me understand what that pie chart looks like? on the desktop you still looks like? on the desktop you still looks like? on the desktop you still have the probably the majority is iuntu have the probably the majority is iuntu have the probably the majority is iuntu debian based and then you have the debian based and then you have the debian based and then you have the fedora based systems um which are like fedora based systems um which are like fedora based systems um which are like enterprise Linux environment you know

enterprise Linux environment you know enterprise Linux environment you know susi and all these other ones that are susi and all these other ones that are susi and all these other ones that are are kind of the same if they have RPMs are kind of the same if they have RPMs are kind of the same if they have RPMs and DNF it's kind of in that field and and DNF it's kind of in that field and and DNF it's kind of in that field and then there's the the very vocal uh then there's the the very vocal uh then there's the the very vocal uh minority uh that use Arch by the way minority uh that use Arch by the way minority uh that use Arch by the way and there's always the easy joke like and there's always the easy joke like and there's always the easy joke like both those people that use Arch are very both those people that use Arch are very both those people that use Arch are very happy but Um, so help me understand the happy but Um, so help me understand the happy but Um, so help me understand the like if if you're a non- Linux person, like if if you're a non- Linux person, like if if you're a non- Linux person, you're trying to understand these you're trying to understand these you're trying to understand these families. You said like, well, they're families. You said like, well, they're families. You said like, well, they're Fedora based or they're uh you they're Fedora based or they're uh you they're Fedora based or they're uh you they're Archbased, like what's what's the core Archbased, like what's what's the core Archbased, like what's what's the core of the big the big three or four Linuxes of the big the big three or four Linuxes of the big the big three or four Linuxes and why would one care about that? And and why would one care about that? And and why would one care about that? And what does that tell someone when you what does that tell someone when you what does that tell someone when you say, "Oh, yeah, this is based on say, "Oh, yeah, this is based on say, "Oh, yeah, this is based on Fedora." It's usually just the opinions Fedora." It's usually just the opinions Fedora." It's usually just the opinions around how things should work and and around how things should work and and around how things should work and and those those those opinions are kind of spread throughout opinions are kind of spread throughout opinions are kind of spread throughout the distributions and the different the distributions and the different the distributions and the different families but in general they they kind families but in general they they kind families but in general they they kind of boil down to uh how they started as of boil down to uh how they started as of boil down to uh how they started as far as like how the file systems laid far as like how the file systems laid far as like how the file systems laid out uh where where configuration files out uh where where configuration files out uh where where configuration files are how to like Windows has a registry are how to like Windows has a registry are how to like Windows has a registry right and there's only one registry and right and there's only one registry and right and there's only one registry and inside of Linux you might have different inside of Linux you might have different inside of Linux you might have different ways like you know demp or you have in ways like you know demp or you have in ways like you know demp or you have in like the gnome world or you're going to like the gnome world or you're going to like the gnome world or you're going to have these have these have these ways to configure the system that aren't ways to configure the system that aren't ways to configure the system that aren't that go beyond flat files because that go beyond flat files because that go beyond flat files because sometimes files are are a little sometimes files are are a little sometimes files are are a little cumbersome and so that's kind of where cumbersome and so that's kind of where cumbersome and so that's kind of where the opinions go and on the servers it's the opinions go and on the servers it's the opinions go and on the servers it's it's also different where I mean they it's also different where I mean they it's also different where I mean they you have the same majorities there uh you have the same majorities there uh you have the same majorities there uh but there are other ways of how to but there are other ways of how to but there are other ways of how to configure servers and kind of what their configure servers and kind of what their configure servers and kind of what their use cases are right if you're using a a use cases are right if you're using a a use cases are right if you're using a a Raspberry Pi you probably want to Raspberry Pi you probably want to Raspberry Pi you probably want to interact with it you probably want to do

interact with it you probably want to do interact with it you probably want to do some things to like I don't know exactly some things to like I don't know exactly some things to like I don't know exactly how I'm going to figure this but I'm how I'm going to figure this but I'm how I'm going to figure this but I'm going to configure it over time okay and going to configure it over time okay and going to configure it over time okay and So there's the monolithic Linux kernel, So there's the monolithic Linux kernel, So there's the monolithic Linux kernel, right? There's the Linux kernel as as right? There's the Linux kernel as as right? There's the Linux kernel as as Linux sees it. Linux sees it. Linux sees it. Is that a fair statement? Right. And Is that a fair statement? Right. And Is that a fair statement? Right. And then are there forks of that? Like if then are there forks of that? Like if then are there forks of that? Like if I'm using Fedora or Linux Mint or Debian I'm using Fedora or Linux Mint or Debian I'm using Fedora or Linux Mint or Debian or Arch or SUSA, you know, they are not or Arch or SUSA, you know, they are not or Arch or SUSA, you know, they are not all pulling from the same place like all pulling from the same place like all pulling from the same place like Ubuntu is very much follows what's going Ubuntu is very much follows what's going Ubuntu is very much follows what's going on in the kernel. Um and Fedora tends to on in the kernel. Um and Fedora tends to on in the kernel. Um and Fedora tends to adopt newer versions of the Linux adopt newer versions of the Linux adopt newer versions of the Linux kernel, but like when do people vote kernel, but like when do people vote kernel, but like when do people vote have a vote of no confidence against the have a vote of no confidence against the have a vote of no confidence against the kernel and then do their own thing. kernel and then do their own thing. kernel and then do their own thing. Yeah. All the distributions will have Yeah. All the distributions will have Yeah. All the distributions will have some flavor that they build themselves some flavor that they build themselves some flavor that they build themselves with different types of support for with different types of support for with different types of support for hardware and things and and many times hardware and things and and many times hardware and things and and many times those become just licensing deals, those become just licensing deals, those become just licensing deals, right? Where where iuntu was one of the right? Where where iuntu was one of the right? Where where iuntu was one of the first ones that were like, "Hey, we're first ones that were like, "Hey, we're first ones that were like, "Hey, we're going to give you an easy button to going to give you an easy button to going to give you an easy button to install Nvidia drivers, right?" right? install Nvidia drivers, right?" right? install Nvidia drivers, right?" right? Like proprietary blobs that you can load Like proprietary blobs that you can load Like proprietary blobs that you can load as kernel modules and we don't care that as kernel modules and we don't care that as kernel modules and we don't care that this isn't free software, right? Like we this isn't free software, right? Like we this isn't free software, right? Like we don't care that, you know, other people don't care that, you know, other people don't care that, you know, other people don't install this, we're just going to don't install this, we're just going to don't install this, we're just going to go ahead and do it for you. And that's go ahead and do it for you. And that's go ahead and do it for you. And that's like Bluein for me is that sort of like like Bluein for me is that sort of like like Bluein for me is that sort of like easy button. We're like, hey, you know easy button. We're like, hey, you know easy button. We're like, hey, you know what? This Fedora has licensing terms what? This Fedora has licensing terms what? This Fedora has licensing terms that they're not going to distribute that they're not going to distribute that they're not going to distribute some of that stuff. But in Bluein, I some of that stuff. But in Bluein, I some of that stuff. But in Bluein, I have an Nvidia version that I it's just have an Nvidia version that I it's just have an Nvidia version that I it's just gets delivered to me with Nvidia drivers gets delivered to me with Nvidia drivers gets delivered to me with Nvidia drivers baked in. I don't even care. Like I baked in. I don't even care. Like I baked in. I don't even care. Like I don't have to mess with it at all. Yeah, don't have to mess with it at all. Yeah, don't have to mess with it at all. Yeah, that's a really good point. The first that's a really good point. The first that's a really good point. The first time I installed Ubuntu, probably around time I installed Ubuntu, probably around time I installed Ubuntu, probably around 2016 or 2018, there was this, "Oh, I 2016 or 2018, there was this, "Oh, I 2016 or 2018, there was this, "Oh, I have an Nvidia card click." And then a have an Nvidia card click." And then a have an Nvidia card click." And then a warning comes up that's like, "Do you

warning comes up that's like, "Do you warning comes up that's like, "Do you care?" And I don't know if I was care?" And I don't know if I was care?" And I don't know if I was educated enough about how licensing educated enough about how licensing educated enough about how licensing worked at the time to know if I was worked at the time to know if I was worked at the time to know if I was supposed to care. Yeah. But it's like, supposed to care. Yeah. But it's like, supposed to care. Yeah. But it's like, "Hey, this is third party and this "Hey, this is third party and this "Hey, this is third party and this isn't, you know, completely open source. isn't, you know, completely open source. isn't, you know, completely open source. Are you okay with that?" And then I Are you okay with that?" And then I Are you okay with that?" And then I said, "Yeah, whatever you say." And then said, "Yeah, whatever you say." And then said, "Yeah, whatever you say." And then I And then it just worked. Yeah. Are we I And then it just worked. Yeah. Are we I And then it just worked. Yeah. Are we still seeing that now in 2025? like you still seeing that now in 2025? like you still seeing that now in 2025? like you still I mean are there Nvidia drivers still I mean are there Nvidia drivers still I mean are there Nvidia drivers that are not third party that from that are not third party that from that are not third party that from Nvidia and that they still work like can Nvidia and that they still work like can Nvidia and that they still work like can I still get a great experience if I want I still get a great experience if I want I still get a great experience if I want to be fully open source all the way to be fully open source all the way to be fully open source all the way down. Well I mean it depends on what you down. Well I mean it depends on what you down. Well I mean it depends on what you consider great experience but probably consider great experience but probably consider great experience but probably and I I do think that a lot of credit to and I I do think that a lot of credit to and I I do think that a lot of credit to what Steam has been doing with the Steam what Steam has been doing with the Steam what Steam has been doing with the Steam Deck and just making Linux a first class Deck and just making Linux a first class Deck and just making Linux a first class citizen. I mean, obviously that's an AMD citizen. I mean, obviously that's an AMD citizen. I mean, obviously that's an AMD stack for the Steam Deck, but just stack for the Steam Deck, but just stack for the Steam Deck, but just saying, "Hey, you know what? Like, saying, "Hey, you know what? Like, saying, "Hey, you know what? Like, gaming should be good here, and we gaming should be good here, and we gaming should be good here, and we should be able to make this better." And should be able to make this better." And should be able to make this better." And and anyone that buys a Steam Deck is and anyone that buys a Steam Deck is and anyone that buys a Steam Deck is probably in the I don't care, you know, probably in the I don't care, you know, probably in the I don't care, you know, realm of give me whatever blobs make realm of give me whatever blobs make realm of give me whatever blobs make this system usable and function in a in this system usable and function in a in this system usable and function in a in a utility sort of way where I don't have a utility sort of way where I don't have a utility sort of way where I don't have to tinker with it. Yeah. Uh, Steam to tinker with it. Yeah. Uh, Steam to tinker with it. Yeah. Uh, Steam definitely has done it right. And the definitely has done it right. And the definitely has done it right. And the compatibility layer is the joy. like compatibility layer is the joy. like compatibility layer is the joy. like Proton, the the thing that allows a Proton, the the thing that allows a Proton, the the thing that allows a Windows game to be lied to, but without Windows game to be lied to, but without Windows game to be lied to, but without it being a virtual machine, basically it being a virtual machine, basically it being a virtual machine, basically like, you know, I'm going to call the like, you know, I'm going to call the like, you know, I'm going to call the Win32 API. What's that? There's like a Win32 API. What's that? There's like a Win32 API. What's that? There's like a legendary blog post about that that said legendary blog post about that that said legendary blog post about that that said the only uh ABI, the only application the only uh ABI, the only application the only uh ABI, the only application binary interface that is stable for binary interface that is stable for binary interface that is stable for gaming is Win32. Yeah. And it's gaming is Win32. Yeah. And it's gaming is Win32. Yeah. And it's basically a statement that if you're basically a statement that if you're basically a statement that if you're going to make a game, you're going to going to make a game, you're going to going to make a game, you're going to target Windows. But don't worry,

target Windows. But don't worry, target Windows. But don't worry, targeting Windows doesn't mean just targeting Windows doesn't mean just targeting Windows doesn't mean just targeting Windows. It really means it'll targeting Windows. It really means it'll targeting Windows. It really means it'll work and be okay everywhere, which is a work and be okay everywhere, which is a work and be okay everywhere, which is a crazy thing to be true. Yeah. And crazy thing to be true. Yeah. And crazy thing to be true. Yeah. And actually the with Blue Fin like they actually the with Blue Fin like they actually the with Blue Fin like they have a version that's for gaming called have a version that's for gaming called have a version that's for gaming called Basite, which is I I have it on my on my Basite, which is I I have it on my on my Basite, which is I I have it on my on my Steam Deck, right? It's an alternative Steam Deck, right? It's an alternative Steam Deck, right? It's an alternative to Steam OS, which gives me all the to Steam OS, which gives me all the to Steam OS, which gives me all the flexibility of a full Linux distro. Uh, flexibility of a full Linux distro. Uh, flexibility of a full Linux distro. Uh, and I can install things and I still get and I can install things and I still get and I can install things and I still get that AB partition swapping for upgrades that AB partition swapping for upgrades that AB partition swapping for upgrades and all that other stuff. And I get and all that other stuff. And I get and all that other stuff. And I get Proton and it's just an utility for me, Proton and it's just an utility for me, Proton and it's just an utility for me, right? Like it's still I just game on right? Like it's still I just game on right? Like it's still I just game on it. But the first time that I I used it, it. But the first time that I I used it, it. But the first time that I I used it, I'm like, I'm gonna run Kubernetes on I'm like, I'm gonna run Kubernetes on I'm like, I'm gonna run Kubernetes on here. Why not? like let's see what this here. Why not? like let's see what this here. Why not? like let's see what this looks like and it works right because I looks like and it works right because I looks like and it works right because I get a full SSH and all the other stuff get a full SSH and all the other stuff get a full SSH and all the other stuff that I might want to do that is is that I might want to do that is is that I might want to do that is is restrictive on Steam OS and and you restrictive on Steam OS and and you restrictive on Steam OS and and you can't they really really don't want you can't they really really don't want you can't they really really don't want you to do those things and as soon as you to do those things and as soon as you to do those things and as soon as you like break out of the mold they're like like break out of the mold they're like like break out of the mold they're like oh this is now un unapgradeable but oh this is now un unapgradeable but oh this is now un unapgradeable but Basite is like no no we know where the Basite is like no no we know where the Basite is like no no we know where the edges are we can make this easier edges are we can make this easier edges are we can make this easier interesting okay so why did you do that interesting okay so why did you do that interesting okay so why did you do that because sometimes I feel like Linux because sometimes I feel like Linux because sometimes I feel like Linux people do stuff just because we they can people do stuff just because we they can people do stuff just because we they can do stuff like is there a legitimate do stuff like is there a legitimate do stuff like is there a legitimate reason or was there something was like reason or was there something was like reason or was there something was like ah I just bumped up against the edge of ah I just bumped up against the edge of ah I just bumped up against the edge of Steam OS. Uh installing applications was Steam OS. Uh installing applications was Steam OS. Uh installing applications was just really cumbersome like switching to just really cumbersome like switching to just really cumbersome like switching to the Ubuntu desktop and messing around the Ubuntu desktop and messing around the Ubuntu desktop and messing around and switching back. Yeah, I mean they and switching back. Yeah, I mean they and switching back. Yeah, I mean they run I I'm not a big fan of KDE and they run I I'm not a big fan of KDE and they run I I'm not a big fan of KDE and they run KDE by default. um they have an Arch run KDE by default. um they have an Arch run KDE by default. um they have an Arch Linux like flavor that's kind of locked Linux like flavor that's kind of locked Linux like flavor that's kind of locked down and read only in certain areas and down and read only in certain areas and down and read only in certain areas and I was like ah this isn't really what I I was like ah this isn't really what I I was like ah this isn't really what I wanted and so I enjoy Gnome and I enjoy wanted and so I enjoy Gnome and I enjoy wanted and so I enjoy Gnome and I enjoy a Fedora base because I'm used to it and a Fedora base because I'm used to it and a Fedora base because I'm used to it and so familiarity was really helpful in so familiarity was really helpful in so familiarity was really helpful in just like hey you know what I would just just like hey you know what I would just just like hey you know what I would just love to be able to have like a decent

love to be able to have like a decent love to be able to have like a decent browser or an update browser at some browser or an update browser at some browser or an update browser at some point and and Basite gave me those point and and Basite gave me those point and and Basite gave me those things. Uh, it also like my son uses a things. Uh, it also like my son uses a things. Uh, it also like my son uses a Steam Deck for his only computer for Steam Deck for his only computer for Steam Deck for his only computer for school because full his full desktop school because full his full desktop school because full his full desktop environment, right? Like he just plugs environment, right? Like he just plugs environment, right? Like he just plugs it into a dock and it's just a it's just it into a dock and it's just a it's just it into a dock and it's just a it's just a laptop with a big screen and keyboard a laptop with a big screen and keyboard a laptop with a big screen and keyboard mouse and he can do everything that's mouse and he can do everything that's mouse and he can do everything that's not stripped down to what Steam OS not stripped down to what Steam OS not stripped down to what Steam OS allows you to do. That's cool. I need to allows you to do. That's cool. I need to allows you to do. That's cool. I need to understand this. How old is your son? understand this. How old is your son? understand this. How old is your son? 13. He's 13. And he's got a dock, like a 13. He's 13. And he's got a dock, like a 13. He's 13. And he's got a dock, like a USBC dock, and he puts a Steam Deck in USBC dock, and he puts a Steam Deck in USBC dock, and he puts a Steam Deck in there. He hits it. He goes and he says, there. He hits it. He goes and he says, there. He hits it. He goes and he says, "Switch to desktop." or he boots "Switch to desktop." or he boots "Switch to desktop." or he boots directly into into Bazite. He he directly into into Bazite. He he directly into into Bazite. He he switches to desktop whenever it reboots. switches to desktop whenever it reboots. switches to desktop whenever it reboots. Yeah. Or when he restarts it, he'll Yeah. Or when he restarts it, he'll Yeah. Or when he restarts it, he'll switch it to desktop because he'll use switch it to desktop because he'll use switch it to desktop because he'll use it gaming mode. He'll take it with him it gaming mode. He'll take it with him it gaming mode. He'll take it with him and in gaming mode it gives you better and in gaming mode it gives you better and in gaming mode it gives you better controls and stuff like that. Like it controls and stuff like that. Like it controls and stuff like that. Like it gives an emulation layer for keyboard gives an emulation layer for keyboard gives an emulation layer for keyboard and mouse. Uh but then he'll switch it and mouse. Uh but then he'll switch it and mouse. Uh but then he'll switch it to desktop and he loves it cuz it's like to desktop and he loves it cuz it's like to desktop and he loves it cuz it's like he gets the dual monitors. So he plays he gets the dual monitors. So he plays he gets the dual monitors. So he plays YouTube on the small screen and plays on YouTube on the small screen and plays on YouTube on the small screen and plays on the big screen. No way. And yeah, he's the big screen. No way. And yeah, he's the big screen. No way. And yeah, he's in Discord all day just like I know that in Discord all day just like I know that in Discord all day just like I know that that's possible. Like I can that's possible. Like I can that's possible. Like I can intellectualize that. You know what I intellectualize that. You know what I intellectualize that. You know what I mean? But like usually when I switch mean? But like usually when I switch mean? But like usually when I switch over to to uh desktop mode in uh on my over to to uh desktop mode in uh on my over to to uh desktop mode in uh on my Steam Deck, I do it to install something Steam Deck, I do it to install something Steam Deck, I do it to install something weird, you know, like I think I I did it weird, you know, like I think I I did it weird, you know, like I think I I did it to install Edge in order to do Xbox to install Edge in order to do Xbox to install Edge in order to do Xbox cloud streaming or I did it to install cloud streaming or I did it to install cloud streaming or I did it to install retro stuff, but he's like living over retro stuff, but he's like living over retro stuff, but he's like living over there and using using Google and logging there and using using Google and logging there and using using Google and logging into school and everything. Yeah, 100%.

into school and everything. Yeah, 100%. into school and everything. Yeah, 100%. Like all of his homework, everything Like all of his homework, everything Like all of his homework, everything else. It's just it's just a powerful else. It's just it's just a powerful else. It's just it's just a powerful like laptop that has a good video card like laptop that has a good video card like laptop that has a good video card and and Basite allows for that. Like it and and Basite allows for that. Like it and and Basite allows for that. Like it cloud streaming is like a built into cloud streaming is like a built into cloud streaming is like a built into Basite. Oh yeah, like if you want cloud Basite. Oh yeah, like if you want cloud Basite. Oh yeah, like if you want cloud streaming, here's here's a bunch of streaming, here's here's a bunch of streaming, here's here's a bunch of stuff. They make a lot of that stuff stuff. They make a lot of that stuff stuff. They make a lot of that stuff around around gaming and it's not just around around gaming and it's not just around around gaming and it's not just for the Steam Deck. Like it is you can for the Steam Deck. Like it is you can for the Steam Deck. Like it is you can run it on laptops. People run it on like run it on laptops. People run it on like run it on laptops. People run it on like home theater PCs just for because it home theater PCs just for because it home theater PCs just for because it gives you a TV interface, right? I want gives you a TV interface, right? I want gives you a TV interface, right? I want that lean back interface or whatever that lean back interface or whatever that lean back interface or whatever they call it. So Basite is generally they call it. So Basite is generally they call it. So Basite is generally Steam OS for every hardware, but also Steam OS for every hardware, but also Steam OS for every hardware, but also it's just a better Steam OS for Steam it's just a better Steam OS for Steam it's just a better Steam OS for Steam hardware. That's so cool. I like that. hardware. That's so cool. I like that. hardware. That's so cool. I like that. Now, does he take the thing to school Now, does he take the thing to school Now, does he take the thing to school with a keyboard or how does he do his with a keyboard or how does he do his with a keyboard or how does he do his work in class? He's He's still He's not work in class? He's He's still He's not work in class? He's He's still He's not allowed to take computers to school allowed to take computers to school allowed to take computers to school right now, so he's still just at at home right now, so he's still just at at home right now, so he's still just at at home with it. Oh, okay. That's really cool. with it. Oh, okay. That's really cool. with it. Oh, okay. That's really cool. And and do other things. Yeah. Yeah. And and do other things. Yeah. Yeah. And and do other things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have I dual boot my Steam Deck Yeah. I have I dual boot my Steam Deck Yeah. I have I dual boot my Steam Deck to Badosera and I've got a multi- to Badosera and I've got a multi- to Badosera and I've got a multi- terabyte Bossera uh in another terabyte Bossera uh in another terabyte Bossera uh in another partition, but um that's where all my partition, but um that's where all my partition, but um that's where all my like retro stuff is. So I and I and and like retro stuff is. So I and I and and like retro stuff is. So I and I and and my my Steam Deck, which is right here.

my my Steam Deck, which is right here. my my Steam Deck, which is right here. Actually, I'm bringing it over here. Actually, I'm bringing it over here. Actually, I'm bringing it over here. I've got a uh like two extra SD cards. I've got a uh like two extra SD cards. I've got a uh like two extra SD cards. So for for alternate boot. So for me the So for for alternate boot. So for me the So for for alternate boot. So for me the dual boot I don't trust messing around dual boot I don't trust messing around dual boot I don't trust messing around with grub. I dual boot the partition by with grub. I dual boot the partition by with grub. I dual boot the partition by pulling out the uh SD card holding down pulling out the uh SD card holding down pulling out the uh SD card holding down volume plug and doing that is the way to volume plug and doing that is the way to volume plug and doing that is the way to do it. Is that the way? Oh, excellent. do it. Is that the way? Oh, excellent. do it. Is that the way? Oh, excellent. That that makes me feel better. Physical That that makes me feel better. Physical That that makes me feel better. Physical phys physical unplug this thing to boot phys physical unplug this thing to boot phys physical unplug this thing to boot the other thing is the best way because the other thing is the best way because the other thing is the best way because like Basite also like they don't mess like Basite also like they don't mess like Basite also like they don't mess around with dual booting. It's like no around with dual booting. It's like no around with dual booting. It's like no just install this to like a full uh just install this to like a full uh just install this to like a full uh micro SD or internal and then just when micro SD or internal and then just when micro SD or internal and then just when you want to boot it, boot it. Um but you want to boot it, boot it. Um but you want to boot it, boot it. Um but they do have like retro gaming stuff they do have like retro gaming stuff they do have like retro gaming stuff built in. It's like, yeah, we just have built in. It's like, yeah, we just have built in. It's like, yeah, we just have a menu that allows you to do some of a menu that allows you to do some of a menu that allows you to do some of that stuff because it's a full Linux that stuff because it's a full Linux that stuff because it's a full Linux distro. What a time to be distro. What a time to be distro. What a time to be alive. The um on the on on the the alive. The um on the on on the the alive. The um on the on on the the desktop that you're running, which is desktop that you're running, which is desktop that you're running, which is Bluefin, uh which is project bluefin.io. Bluefin, uh which is project bluefin.io. Bluefin, uh which is project bluefin.io. You you picked that one because why? You you picked that one because why? You you picked that one because why? What was it about that that gave you What was it about that that gave you What was it about that that gave you what you wanted other than the power of what you wanted other than the power of what you wanted other than the power of the Gnome desktop? the Gnome desktop? the Gnome desktop? Uh I mean I I have been dro hopping Uh I mean I I have been dro hopping Uh I mean I I have been dro hopping since I started using Linux back in since I started using Linux back in since I started using Linux back in probably 2004ish. probably 2004ish. probably 2004ish. Uh I I would go back and forth Debbian, Uh I I would go back and forth Debbian, Uh I I would go back and forth Debbian, Iuntu, Fedora, Arch for a little while.

Iuntu, Fedora, Arch for a little while. Iuntu, Fedora, Arch for a little while. I' I've done so many and I kept coming I' I've done so many and I kept coming I' I've done so many and I kept coming back to this like you know what I I I back to this like you know what I I I back to this like you know what I I I ran a Chromebook for a really long time. ran a Chromebook for a really long time. ran a Chromebook for a really long time. I really liked the Chromebook upgrade I really liked the Chromebook upgrade I really liked the Chromebook upgrade stability experience, but I didn't like stability experience, but I didn't like stability experience, but I didn't like the restrictions. And Bluefin is based the restrictions. And Bluefin is based the restrictions. And Bluefin is based on uh Fedora Silverblue, which is like on uh Fedora Silverblue, which is like on uh Fedora Silverblue, which is like this AB partition swapping, which is this AB partition swapping, which is this AB partition swapping, which is what Android phones do, is what what Android phones do, is what what Android phones do, is what Chromebooks do. Uh they have a different Chromebooks do. Uh they have a different Chromebooks do. Uh they have a different mechanism for it, but it doesn't really mechanism for it, but it doesn't really mechanism for it, but it doesn't really matter. It just gives you that stable matter. It just gives you that stable matter. It just gives you that stable like fallback. It's like, "Oh, this like fallback. It's like, "Oh, this like fallback. It's like, "Oh, this didn't this boot didn't work. Fall didn't this boot didn't work. Fall didn't this boot didn't work. Fall back." Like a whole distribution upgrade back." Like a whole distribution upgrade back." Like a whole distribution upgrade is the exactly the same as a normal is the exactly the same as a normal is the exactly the same as a normal package upgrade where it's like, "Oh, I package upgrade where it's like, "Oh, I package upgrade where it's like, "Oh, I just reboot and I get the new thing." just reboot and I get the new thing." just reboot and I get the new thing." And like my whole I want to go back to And like my whole I want to go back to And like my whole I want to go back to the old dro. Yeah, just reboot back and the old dro. Yeah, just reboot back and the old dro. Yeah, just reboot back and and you can even like bookmark things and you can even like bookmark things and you can even like bookmark things like a git tree. Like I can have like like a git tree. Like I can have like like a git tree. Like I can have like get status and say like, "Oh, let me let get status and say like, "Oh, let me let get status and say like, "Oh, let me let me bookmark this version of of the OS me bookmark this version of of the OS me bookmark this version of of the OS and then let me fall back to it if I and then let me fall back to it if I and then let me fall back to it if I need to." And I loved that just need to." And I loved that just need to." And I loved that just stability mindset of just I reboot if I stability mindset of just I reboot if I stability mindset of just I reboot if I want to do a big upgrade, if I want to want to do a big upgrade, if I want to want to do a big upgrade, if I want to change a bunch of packages. There's a change a bunch of packages. There's a change a bunch of packages. There's a lot of things that are containerized in lot of things that are containerized in lot of things that are containerized in various ways, whether that's actual like various ways, whether that's actual like various ways, whether that's actual like Docker containers or flatpack packages, Docker containers or flatpack packages, Docker containers or flatpack packages, which are isolated guey environments.

which are isolated guey environments. which are isolated guey environments. Uh, and there's also like Drobox and Uh, and there's also like Drobox and Uh, and there's also like Drobox and Docker of course and all these other Docker of course and all these other Docker of course and all these other things. It's like if you want to run and things. It's like if you want to run and things. It's like if you want to run and install software, you should probably do install software, you should probably do install software, you should probably do it with Brew because Brew is just a a a it with Brew because Brew is just a a a it with Brew because Brew is just a a a good package manager that exists and has good package manager that exists and has good package manager that exists and has a bunch of packages for command line a bunch of packages for command line a bunch of packages for command line tools. If you want to run guey apps, run tools. If you want to run guey apps, run tools. If you want to run guey apps, run them in Flatpack. And if you need them in Flatpack. And if you need them in Flatpack. And if you need something outside of that, there's like something outside of that, there's like something outside of that, there's like an escape hatch to layer on more an escape hatch to layer on more an escape hatch to layer on more packages on top of it. Interesting. packages on top of it. Interesting. packages on top of it. Interesting. Okay. And it is is it brew specifically Okay. And it is is it brew specifically Okay. And it is is it brew specifically that is making the pinability of the that is making the pinability of the that is making the pinability of the versions or is it something inside of versions or is it something inside of versions or is it something inside of project bluefin specifically that is project bluefin specifically that is project bluefin specifically that is allow no that's that's part of fedora allow no that's that's part of fedora allow no that's that's part of fedora silver blue that's called rpmos tree and silver blue that's called rpmos tree and silver blue that's called rpmos tree and it's it's basically git for your file it's it's basically git for your file it's it's basically git for your file system which is similar if you like system which is similar if you like system which is similar if you like think of nyx does the same thing in in think of nyx does the same thing in in think of nyx does the same thing in in some ways but in a different sort of some ways but in a different sort of some ways but in a different sort of way. It's just like it's red hat's way. It's just like it's red hat's way. It's just like it's red hat's version of nyx in a lot of ways. Okay. version of nyx in a lot of ways. Okay. version of nyx in a lot of ways. Okay. And that's combining your traditional And that's combining your traditional And that's combining your traditional RPM style packet management with the OS3 RPM style packet management with the OS3 RPM style packet management with the OS3 model, the OS3 style of system images. model, the OS3 style of system images. model, the OS3 style of system images. Yeah. Yeah. Because you get an image, Yeah. Yeah. Because you get an image, Yeah. Yeah. Because you get an image, but it still kind of links a bunch of but it still kind of links a bunch of but it still kind of links a bunch of files on the file system just like a files on the file system just like a files on the file system just like a Git. So is that versioning like your Git. So is that versioning like your Git. So is that versioning like your whole thing? Like how much you choose, I whole thing? Like how much you choose, I whole thing? Like how much you choose, I assume, what to version? Like is it a assume, what to version? Like is it a assume, what to version? Like is it a versioned file system or is it just a versioned file system or is it just a versioned file system or is it just a full file system? Yeah. My my home full file system? Yeah. My my home full file system? Yeah. My my home directory separate, right? It mounts a directory separate, right? It mounts a directory separate, right? It mounts a bunch of directories that I can write bunch of directories that I can write bunch of directories that I can write to. uh and and those things get to. uh and and those things get to. uh and and those things get persisted over reboots if I'm changing persisted over reboots if I'm changing persisted over reboots if I'm changing files like Etsy, right? If I'm like files like Etsy, right? If I'm like files like Etsy, right? If I'm like changing Etsy hosts or something like changing Etsy hosts or something like changing Etsy hosts or something like that, I want that to stick around. So that, I want that to stick around. So that, I want that to stick around. So there's a bunch of things that are there's a bunch of things that are there's a bunch of things that are writable. Uh but in general, it's just writable. Uh but in general, it's just writable. Uh but in general, it's just like this AB sort of we we isolate like this AB sort of we we isolate like this AB sort of we we isolate things. And that's the same thing like things. And that's the same thing like things. And that's the same thing like when you're running servers, right? Like when you're running servers, right? Like when you're running servers, right? Like a lot of security best practices on a lot of security best practices on a lot of security best practices on servers are now also

servers are now also servers are now also mount the file system as readon. Don't mount the file system as readon. Don't mount the file system as readon. Don't allow it to have right access to things. allow it to have right access to things. allow it to have right access to things. The server will be more secure. all this The server will be more secure. all this The server will be more secure. all this stuff is just going to be easier to stuff is just going to be easier to stuff is just going to be easier to maintain and update and all that stuff maintain and update and all that stuff maintain and update and all that stuff just kind of is like bleeding into the just kind of is like bleeding into the just kind of is like bleeding into the Linux desktop and and I I give Linux desktop and and I I give Linux desktop and and I I give Chromebook a lot of credit for starting Chromebook a lot of credit for starting Chromebook a lot of credit for starting that sort of mindset of just like hey if that sort of mindset of just like hey if that sort of mindset of just like hey if we just isolate what you can do but we just isolate what you can do but we just isolate what you can do but enabling you to do whatever you want is enabling you to do whatever you want is enabling you to do whatever you want is another story around that. Yeah, I feel another story around that. Yeah, I feel another story around that. Yeah, I feel like those are the the the stuff that's like those are the the the stuff that's like those are the the the stuff that's been happening in the last 5 or 10 years been happening in the last 5 or 10 years been happening in the last 5 or 10 years around being really formal about boot around being really formal about boot around being really formal about boot partitions, user days or partitions, partitions, user days or partitions, partitions, user days or partitions, what's readon, what's not read only. what's readon, what's not read only. what's readon, what's not read only. like there's a it's starting to get more like there's a it's starting to get more like there's a it's starting to get more formal and more opinionated and people formal and more opinionated and people formal and more opinionated and people are starting to be unafraid of like how are starting to be unafraid of like how are starting to be unafraid of like how to set up their partitions. Back in the to set up their partitions. Back in the to set up their partitions. Back in the day, we did not think about it like that day, we did not think about it like that day, we did not think about it like that 20 20 years ago, but now the idea that 20 20 years ago, but now the idea that 20 20 years ago, but now the idea that like, oh, I'm going to upgrade. Okay, like, oh, I'm going to upgrade. Okay, like, oh, I'm going to upgrade. Okay, that's the new partition. Let's boot off that's the new partition. Let's boot off that's the new partition. Let's boot off of that. When that one doesn't work out, of that. When that one doesn't work out, of that. When that one doesn't work out, we'll just roll back. It's cool. It's we'll just roll back. It's cool. It's we'll just roll back. It's cool. It's very like Linux is becoming so much more very like Linux is becoming so much more very like Linux is becoming so much more bulletproof than than it was, I don't bulletproof than than it was, I don't bulletproof than than it was, I don't know, even even 10 years ago. Yeah, it's know, even even 10 years ago. Yeah, it's know, even even 10 years ago. Yeah, it's really cool to be so opinionated. I've really cool to be so opinionated. I've really cool to be so opinionated. I've seen I've seen those upgrades with seen I've seen those upgrades with seen I've seen those upgrades with Battle Sera which I found to be a really Battle Sera which I found to be a really Battle Sera which I found to be a really great dro for my Steam Deck and doing great dro for my Steam Deck and doing great dro for my Steam Deck and doing the upgrades has been pretty the upgrades has been pretty the upgrades has been pretty straightforward. Hey friends, it's time straightforward. Hey friends, it's time straightforward. Hey friends, it's time to pay the rent. We're going to take a to pay the rent. We're going to take a to pay the rent. We're going to take a pause here and have a chat with our new pause here and have a chat with our new pause here and have a chat with our new sponsor ShareGate by Work Leap. I've got sponsor ShareGate by Work Leap. I've got sponsor ShareGate by Work Leap. I've got Shaylen Gimy on the line. You know Shaylen Gimy on the line. You know Shaylen Gimy on the line. You know Shayon, if you had 30 seconds to explain Shayon, if you had 30 seconds to explain Shayon, if you had 30 seconds to explain why ShareGate makes IT teams lives why ShareGate makes IT teams lives why ShareGate makes IT teams lives easier, what would you say? All right, easier, what would you say? All right, easier, what would you say? All right, start the clock. Uh, everything IT teams start the clock. Uh, everything IT teams start the clock. Uh, everything IT teams need to manage Microsoft 365 comes out need to manage Microsoft 365 comes out need to manage Microsoft 365 comes out of the box. No manual needed. Flat, of the box. No manual needed. Flat, of the box. No manual needed. Flat, transparent pricing, no data caps, no

transparent pricing, no data caps, no transparent pricing, no data caps, no per user fees. From planning migrations per user fees. From planning migrations per user fees. From planning migrations to keeping your environment clean and to keeping your environment clean and to keeping your environment clean and secure. We take the heavy lifting off secure. We take the heavy lifting off secure. We take the heavy lifting off it's shoulders, you know, and when you it's shoulders, you know, and when you it's shoulders, you know, and when you need help, you get real support from need help, you get real support from need help, you get real support from real experts. Sharegate makes Microsoft real experts. Sharegate makes Microsoft real experts. Sharegate makes Microsoft 365 management simple so IT teams can 365 management simple so IT teams can 365 management simple so IT teams can focus on what really matters. That was focus on what really matters. That was focus on what really matters. That was exactly 29 seconds. That was impressive. exactly 29 seconds. That was impressive. exactly 29 seconds. That was impressive. Very, very impressive. Just as is Very, very impressive. Just as is Very, very impressive. Just as is Sharegate by Work. You can check them Sharegate by Work. You can check them Sharegate by Work. You can check them out at sharegate.com. It's one tool to out at sharegate.com. It's one tool to out at sharegate.com. It's one tool to migrate faster and secure your tenant. migrate faster and secure your tenant. migrate faster and secure your tenant. It's an out of the box Microsoft 365 It's an out of the box Microsoft 365 It's an out of the box Microsoft 365 migration solution. You can check them migration solution. You can check them migration solution. You can check them out shargate.com. And we thank them for out shargate.com. And we thank them for out shargate.com. And we thank them for being a sponsor of Hansel being a sponsor of Hansel being a sponsor of Hansel minutes. So, when you are picking your minutes. So, when you are picking your minutes. So, when you are picking your your front end, are you finding there's your front end, are you finding there's your front end, are you finding there's anything you can't do? We used to tease anything you can't do? We used to tease anything you can't do? We used to tease Linux people about their video drivers, Linux people about their video drivers, Linux people about their video drivers, but sound was the big one. But here we but sound was the big one. But here we but sound was the big one. But here we are. You're in you're in Chrome. We're are. You're in you're in Chrome. We're are. You're in you're in Chrome. We're having no problem. You've got your your having no problem. You've got your your having no problem. You've got your your your webcam. Is there anything that your webcam. Is there anything that your webcam. Is there anything that doesn't work or are the days of joking doesn't work or are the days of joking doesn't work or are the days of joking about Linux and audio drivers long over? about Linux and audio drivers long over? about Linux and audio drivers long over? I used to manage Linux at Disney I used to manage Linux at Disney I used to manage Linux at Disney Animation and Disney Animation is all of Animation and Disney Animation is all of Animation and Disney Animation is all of the artist workstations are Linux, all the artist workstations are Linux, all the artist workstations are Linux, all Red Hat Linux. And I was responsible for Red Hat Linux. And I was responsible for Red Hat Linux. And I was responsible for what artists would do to make a movie.

what artists would do to make a movie. what artists would do to make a movie. And it was always like a trope going And it was always like a trope going And it was always like a trope going into it was like you can't do multimedia into it was like you can't do multimedia into it was like you can't do multimedia or graphics or all this stuff on Linux. or graphics or all this stuff on Linux. or graphics or all this stuff on Linux. And I'm like I walk into that And I'm like I walk into that And I'm like I walk into that environment I'm like oh this is all like environment I'm like oh this is all like environment I'm like oh this is all like and they like all of the other options and they like all of the other options and they like all of the other options of like we should use Windows for this, of like we should use Windows for this, of like we should use Windows for this, we should use Mac for this and like nah we should use Mac for this and like nah we should use Mac for this and like nah like we don't have any of the like we don't have any of the like we don't have any of the flexibility that we need that we get flexibility that we need that we get flexibility that we need that we get from Linux to be able to run a business from Linux to be able to run a business from Linux to be able to run a business this way. and and they were running, you this way. and and they were running, you this way. and and they were running, you know, like with wine and even things know, like with wine and even things know, like with wine and even things back, you know, 10 years ago, like they back, you know, 10 years ago, like they back, you know, 10 years ago, like they were running applications that you're were running applications that you're were running applications that you're like, "Oh, this this should never work like, "Oh, this this should never work like, "Oh, this this should never work in Linux, right?" Like now, like in Linux, right?" Like now, like in Linux, right?" Like now, like Photoshop, yeah, it's fine. Like, we we Photoshop, yeah, it's fine. Like, we we Photoshop, yeah, it's fine. Like, we we got it. Like, it's it doesn't matter. got it. Like, it's it doesn't matter. got it. Like, it's it doesn't matter. It's it's running in Linux. It does It's it's running in Linux. It does It's it's running in Linux. It does everything that the artists need to everything that the artists need to everything that the artists need to literally make movies that go to a movie literally make movies that go to a movie literally make movies that go to a movie theater. And then I started discovering theater. And then I started discovering theater. And then I started discovering that like, wow, there's like a lot of that like, wow, there's like a lot of that like, wow, there's like a lot of industries that do this. Like all the industries that do this. Like all the industries that do this. Like all the other animation studios like, you know, other animation studios like, you know, other animation studios like, you know, DreamWorks and ILM and all the like, DreamWorks and ILM and all the like, DreamWorks and ILM and all the like, yeah, we're all everything's Linux, of yeah, we're all everything's Linux, of yeah, we're all everything's Linux, of course. Why would it not be? And then course. Why would it not be? And then course. Why would it not be? And then like the CAD environment of like like the CAD environment of like like the CAD environment of like robotics and 3D rendering like yeah robotics and 3D rendering like yeah robotics and 3D rendering like yeah we're all like why wouldn't we be L I'm we're all like why wouldn't we be L I'm we're all like why wouldn't we be L I'm like what is going on here like this is like what is going on here like this is like what is going on here like this is weird and like I had been using Linux weird and like I had been using Linux weird and like I had been using Linux just because I was a broke college just because I was a broke college just because I was a broke college student. I was like why I got into it student. I was like why I got into it student. I was like why I got into it was like I can't afford a Windows was like I can't afford a Windows was like I can't afford a Windows license in 2002 when I got my first license in 2002 when I got my first license in 2002 when I got my first computer and I was like oh this is my computer and I was like oh this is my computer and I was like oh this is my first computer it didn't come with first computer it didn't come with first computer it didn't come with Windows like all right well like I just Windows like all right well like I just Windows like all right well like I just I need an operating system and so I just I need an operating system and so I just I need an operating system and so I just found you know Linux and I started found you know Linux and I started found you know Linux and I started running it and then I just was like okay running it and then I just was like okay running it and then I just was like okay well how does this work and there's been well how does this work and there's been well how does this work and there's been lots of hiccups along the way and lots lots of hiccups along the way and lots lots of hiccups along the way and lots of things that haven't worked and of things that haven't worked and of things that haven't worked and transition to Wayland was rough and all transition to Wayland was rough and all transition to Wayland was rough and all of these things are kind of being reborn of these things are kind of being reborn of these things are kind of being reborn in a lot of ways but I mean it's been in a lot of ways but I mean it's been in a lot of ways but I mean it's been nice like I I can't say that had any

nice like I I can't say that had any nice like I I can't say that had any less problems on Windows. I used to less problems on Windows. I used to less problems on Windows. I used to manage Windows devices at a university. manage Windows devices at a university. manage Windows devices at a university. So I was, you know, managing thousands So I was, you know, managing thousands So I was, you know, managing thousands of Windows machines and labs and of Windows machines and labs and of Windows machines and labs and classrooms and endpoints and everything classrooms and endpoints and everything classrooms and endpoints and everything else. I'm like, wow, this is this gets else. I'm like, wow, this is this gets else. I'm like, wow, this is this gets broken just the same. This is just a broken just the same. This is just a broken just the same. This is just a different flavor of what are you used different flavor of what are you used different flavor of what are you used to. Mhm. Why was the transition to to. Mhm. Why was the transition to to. Mhm. Why was the transition to Wayland uh difficult for folks who may Wayland uh difficult for folks who may Wayland uh difficult for folks who may not have the context? Uh X11 was the the not have the context? Uh X11 was the the not have the context? Uh X11 was the the kind of the UI, the thing that you draw kind of the UI, the thing that you draw kind of the UI, the thing that you draw on the screen with and Wayland is the on the screen with and Wayland is the on the screen with and Wayland is the modern display protocol, the display modern display protocol, the display modern display protocol, the display server protocol. Um, and it's it's way server protocol. Um, and it's it's way server protocol. Um, and it's it's way way better. Like it's the compositor for way better. Like it's the compositor for way better. Like it's the compositor for for for Linux now. But why did you find for for Linux now. But why did you find for for Linux now. But why did you find the transition challenging? Um, a lot of the transition challenging? Um, a lot of the transition challenging? Um, a lot of times it was because just software was times it was because just software was times it was because just software was never going to be updated to Wayland's never going to be updated to Wayland's never going to be updated to Wayland's protocols. And Wayland was especially protocols. And Wayland was especially protocols. And Wayland was especially early on was very strict about we're early on was very strict about we're early on was very strict about we're never going to add compatibility for never going to add compatibility for never going to add compatibility for something. Like there was X Wayland something. Like there was X Wayland something. Like there was X Wayland compatibility layers that did a fraction compatibility layers that did a fraction compatibility layers that did a fraction of what you wanted a system to do. But of what you wanted a system to do. But of what you wanted a system to do. But in many regards just like we can't bring in many regards just like we can't bring in many regards just like we can't bring all of the legacy along with us and so all of the legacy along with us and so all of the legacy along with us and so we have to just build everything from we have to just build everything from we have to just build everything from scratch again and and Whan has a lot of scratch again and and Whan has a lot of scratch again and and Whan has a lot of ideas about like how how a window ideas about like how how a window ideas about like how how a window manager should be secure, right? And manager should be secure, right? And manager should be secure, right? And there's like again it's just like there's like again it's just like there's like again it's just like another aspect of like well how do you another aspect of like well how do you another aspect of like well how do you isolate your your Chrome from that other isolate your your Chrome from that other isolate your your Chrome from that other application that's running? Like should application that's running? Like should application that's running? Like should a web page be able to read my Audacity?

a web page be able to read my Audacity? a web page be able to read my Audacity? I don't know. Like probably not. Like it I don't know. Like probably not. Like it I don't know. Like probably not. Like it it maybe isn't something that you really it maybe isn't something that you really it maybe isn't something that you really need. But in general like in X you could need. But in general like in X you could need. But in general like in X you could do all of that. And the cool things do all of that. And the cool things do all of that. And the cool things about X were like you could do it over about X were like you could do it over about X were like you could do it over the network and that was super fun. Like the network and that was super fun. Like the network and that was super fun. Like you could just like pull up like I want you could just like pull up like I want you could just like pull up like I want Chrome from that computer over there. Chrome from that computer over there. Chrome from that computer over there. SSH X forward. I have Chrome running. SSH X forward. I have Chrome running. SSH X forward. I have Chrome running. No, it doesn't matter at all, right? No, it doesn't matter at all, right? No, it doesn't matter at all, right? Like that stuff was amazing. And Wayan's Like that stuff was amazing. And Wayan's Like that stuff was amazing. And Wayan's like what? Maybe you maybe we shouldn't like what? Maybe you maybe we shouldn't like what? Maybe you maybe we shouldn't do Xhost Plus. Everyone on the network do Xhost Plus. Everyone on the network do Xhost Plus. Everyone on the network can now run any application from our can now run any application from our can now run any application from our system and just like pull it over to system and just like pull it over to system and just like pull it over to them. Like there's some security them. Like there's some security them. Like there's some security boundaries that we should set up. And boundaries that we should set up. And boundaries that we should set up. And some of that is in in the windowing some of that is in in the windowing some of that is in in the windowing manager. Some of that is in the file manager. Some of that is in the file manager. Some of that is in the file system layer. Some of that is in like system layer. Some of that is in like system layer. Some of that is in like the packing packaging mechanisms like the packing packaging mechanisms like the packing packaging mechanisms like flatpack where it's like oh yeah no you flatpack where it's like oh yeah no you flatpack where it's like oh yeah no you can't read anything outside of like home can't read anything outside of like home can't read anything outside of like home downloads folder right like you know downloads folder right like you know downloads folder right like you know Chrome like you don't need homeconfig Chrome like you don't need homeconfig Chrome like you don't need homeconfig like it's just not like you don't need like it's just not like you don't need like it's just not like you don't need that whatever some gentle sandboxing is that whatever some gentle sandboxing is that whatever some gentle sandboxing is a very reasonable thing to do. It does a very reasonable thing to do. It does a very reasonable thing to do. It does get in the way sometimes still. Like get in the way sometimes still. Like get in the way sometimes still. Like there's still plenty of things that I'm there's still plenty of things that I'm there's still plenty of things that I'm like, "Oh, actually I I can't drag and like, "Oh, actually I I can't drag and like, "Oh, actually I I can't drag and drop a file into Slack." Sometimes like drop a file into Slack." Sometimes like drop a file into Slack." Sometimes like I forget like, "Oh, I I dragged that I forget like, "Oh, I I dragged that I forget like, "Oh, I I dragged that from an NFS." Oh, because Slack has from an NFS." Oh, because Slack has from an NFS." Oh, because Slack has limited visibility, right? I I give limited visibility, right? I I give limited visibility, right? I I give Slack limited visibility. So, I have to Slack limited visibility. So, I have to Slack limited visibility. So, I have to go through like a different flow if I go through like a different flow if I go through like a different flow if I wanted to be able to mount my USB drive wanted to be able to mount my USB drive wanted to be able to mount my USB drive and pull a file in or something, right?

and pull a file in or something, right? and pull a file in or something, right? Like that stuff is there for a reason. Like that stuff is there for a reason. Like that stuff is there for a reason. And for a lot of people, it's just like And for a lot of people, it's just like And for a lot of people, it's just like I don't you don't know why this is I don't you don't know why this is I don't you don't know why this is happening. And so, you're like, "Ah, I happening. And so, you're like, "Ah, I happening. And so, you're like, "Ah, I can't do this." But like you mentioned can't do this." But like you mentioned can't do this." But like you mentioned beginning, like is there anything I beginning, like is there anything I beginning, like is there anything I can't do? I was like I mostly shifted can't do? I was like I mostly shifted can't do? I was like I mostly shifted all my behaviors to things like Da Vinci all my behaviors to things like Da Vinci all my behaviors to things like Da Vinci Resolve for video editing. I still do a Resolve for video editing. I still do a Resolve for video editing. I still do a bunch of YouTube videos and so are you bunch of YouTube videos and so are you bunch of YouTube videos and so are you doing most of your work on native apps doing most of your work on native apps doing most of your work on native apps because you had mentioned before like because you had mentioned before like because you had mentioned before like running Photoshop on wine is a thing running Photoshop on wine is a thing running Photoshop on wine is a thing like there is a comp wine is a like there is a comp wine is a like there is a comp wine is a compatibility layer. It's not a virtual compatibility layer. It's not a virtual compatibility layer. It's not a virtual machine. It's basically lying to Windows machine. It's basically lying to Windows machine. It's basically lying to Windows app. So, Windows app says I want an app. So, Windows app says I want an app. So, Windows app says I want an extern C uh function that is exported by extern C uh function that is exported by extern C uh function that is exported by a DL here. And I'm going to go and call a DL here. And I'm going to go and call a DL here. And I'm going to go and call load library on this DL and Wine is load library on this DL and Wine is load library on this DL and Wine is going to lie. And then it's going to say going to lie. And then it's going to say going to lie. And then it's going to say I want this function offset and Wine's I want this function offset and Wine's I want this function offset and Wine's going to lie. And it lies so effectively going to lie. And it lies so effectively going to lie. And it lies so effectively that Windows apps run great on Wine. You that Windows apps run great on Wine. You that Windows apps run great on Wine. You know, kudos to the Codew Weaver folks know, kudos to the Codew Weaver folks know, kudos to the Codew Weaver folks for bringing that forward. It's a for bringing that forward. It's a for bringing that forward. It's a fantastic fantastic product. And I I fantastic fantastic product. And I I fantastic fantastic product. And I I don't know if you heard, but we recently don't know if you heard, but we recently don't know if you heard, but we recently we Microsoft, where I work in my day we Microsoft, where I work in my day we Microsoft, where I work in my day job, donated Mono and the Mono project job, donated Mono and the Mono project job, donated Mono and the Mono project to to Wine. So they're keeping .NET to to Wine. So they're keeping .NET to to Wine. So they're keeping .NET Framework running, which is keeping a Framework running, which is keeping a Framework running, which is keeping a lot of games running even on Steam. Uh lot of games running even on Steam. Uh lot of games running even on Steam. Uh to this day, uh a lot of software is is to this day, uh a lot of software is is to this day, uh a lot of software is is a series of lies, right? Like even right a series of lies, right? Like even right a series of lies, right? Like even right going if we the further down the stack going if we the further down the stack going if we the further down the stack you go, you're like, it's all lies. Lies you go, you're like, it's all lies. Lies you go, you're like, it's all lies. Lies all the way down. That's the layers of all the way down. That's the layers of all the way down. That's the layers of abstraction. They're all lies. Yeah. Mac abstraction. They're all lies. Yeah. Mac abstraction. They're all lies. Yeah. Mac emulation layers for hardware, right?

emulation layers for hardware, right? emulation layers for hardware, right? When they switched to the the silicon, When they switched to the the silicon, When they switched to the the silicon, like the Apple silicon, right? like it's like the Apple silicon, right? like it's like the Apple silicon, right? like it's all just lies and it's just like a all just lies and it's just like a all just lies and it's just like a constant like you know what I can just constant like you know what I can just constant like you know what I can just lie to this software and everything's lie to this software and everything's lie to this software and everything's fine and if you've ever messed in Linux fine and if you've ever messed in Linux fine and if you've ever messed in Linux like mess with LD preload you could lie like mess with LD preload you could lie like mess with LD preload you could lie to so many things if you're just like I to so many things if you're just like I to so many things if you're just like I can just tell you where the C library is can just tell you where the C library is can just tell you where the C library is for that and I own it and it doesn't for that and I own it and it doesn't for that and I own it and it doesn't matter like there's so many things like matter like there's so many things like matter like there's so many things like that where it's you have full control that where it's you have full control that where it's you have full control over these systems and the further down over these systems and the further down over these systems and the further down you go and the further down you you go and the further down you you go and the further down you understand the easier it is to lie to understand the easier it is to lie to understand the easier it is to lie to the rest of the system on top of you as the rest of the system on top of you as the rest of the system on top of you as we've moved to a web first and PWAs we've moved to a web first and PWAs we've moved to a web first and PWAs progressive web apps and things like progressive web apps and things like progressive web apps and things like that. Are you finding that less and less that. Are you finding that less and less that. Are you finding that less and less of the world is blocked from you? Like of the world is blocked from you? Like of the world is blocked from you? Like you can run games. You've already said you can run games. You've already said you can run games. You've already said that you can run things on wine if you that you can run things on wine if you that you can run things on wine if you wanted to. And then you said like Slack, wanted to. And then you said like Slack, wanted to. And then you said like Slack, I bet I bet you if you went through all I bet I bet you if you went through all I bet I bet you if you went through all of your main apps, probably a non of your main apps, probably a non of your main apps, probably a non non-trivial percent of them are all web non-trivial percent of them are all web non-trivial percent of them are all web apps, right? How much of your time is apps, right? How much of your time is apps, right? How much of your time is spent on the web and it doesn't really spent on the web and it doesn't really spent on the web and it doesn't really matter that you're running Linux versus matter that you're running Linux versus matter that you're running Linux versus running native Linux apps? Yeah, I mean running native Linux apps? Yeah, I mean running native Linux apps? Yeah, I mean a good portion and that probably came a good portion and that probably came a good portion and that probably came from practices like around again at from practices like around again at from practices like around again at Disney animation. We didn't we weren't a Disney animation. We didn't we weren't a Disney animation. We didn't we weren't a Microsoft Office group. Like I Microsoft Office group. Like I Microsoft Office group. Like I everywhere I like every enterprise is everywhere I like every enterprise is everywhere I like every enterprise is using Microsoft Office. I'm like no, using Microsoft Office. I'm like no, using Microsoft Office. I'm like no, they use all Google apps and everything they use all Google apps and everything they use all Google apps and everything is a web- based Google. I'm like that's is a web- based Google. I'm like that's is a web- based Google. I'm like that's amazing that the entire company can just amazing that the entire company can just amazing that the entire company can just go off Google apps. And I didn't think go off Google apps. And I didn't think go off Google apps. And I didn't think that was possible. And so yeah, there's that was possible. And so yeah, there's that was possible. And so yeah, there's a lot of stuff that that like I just a lot of stuff that that like I just a lot of stuff that that like I just shifted. I'm like oh you know what the shifted. I'm like oh you know what the shifted. I'm like oh you know what the web app's good enough here. Also, uh, web app's good enough here. Also, uh, web app's good enough here. Also, uh, some of that is self-inflicted where some of that is self-inflicted where some of that is self-inflicted where like I I mentioned like I'm trying to like I I mentioned like I'm trying to like I I mentioned like I'm trying to deleg my life a little more and in deleg my life a little more and in deleg my life a little more and in switching to Firefox this year, I was switching to Firefox this year, I was switching to Firefox this year, I was like, "Oh, you know what? Apps like like, "Oh, you know what? Apps like like, "Oh, you know what? Apps like Zencaster that we're in right now, like Zencaster that we're in right now, like Zencaster that we're in right now, like just like please install Chrome. Like

just like please install Chrome. Like just like please install Chrome. Like just please it'll work, but it but it just please it'll work, but it but it just please it'll work, but it but it may not work." Yeah. And so there's a may not work." Yeah. And so there's a may not work." Yeah. And so there's a lot of PWAs that are kind of like we're lot of PWAs that are kind of like we're lot of PWAs that are kind of like we're we are we're not web specific, we're we are we're not web specific, we're we are we're not web specific, we're Chrome specific. And so those are things Chrome specific. And so those are things Chrome specific. And so those are things that I'm also finding more and more of that I'm also finding more and more of that I'm also finding more and more of that I'm like, okay, is there that I'm like, okay, is there that I'm like, okay, is there alternative that I could still keep alternative that I could still keep alternative that I could still keep using Firefox for? And so I'm I'm kind using Firefox for? And so I'm I'm kind using Firefox for? And so I'm I'm kind of struggling just on my own, but that's of struggling just on my own, but that's of struggling just on my own, but that's again self-inflicted and it's not a again self-inflicted and it's not a again self-inflicted and it's not a Linux thing. It's a how do how do I own Linux thing. It's a how do how do I own Linux thing. It's a how do how do I own a little more of my stack? How do I make a little more of my stack? How do I make a little more of my stack? How do I make sure that I'm supporting open source sure that I'm supporting open source sure that I'm supporting open source more and and not going the easy route more and and not going the easy route more and and not going the easy route every time? Well, I think that there's every time? Well, I think that there's every time? Well, I think that there's value in in doing that. Like you you've value in in doing that. Like you you've value in in doing that. Like you you've said the word self-inflicted a couple of said the word self-inflicted a couple of said the word self-inflicted a couple of times, but like trying to push back times, but like trying to push back times, but like trying to push back against monoculture doesn't seem like against monoculture doesn't seem like against monoculture doesn't seem like self-inflicted. It seems like a a noble self-inflicted. It seems like a a noble self-inflicted. It seems like a a noble effort, right? Like and there's always effort, right? Like and there's always effort, right? Like and there's always alternatives like you can say oh I need alternatives like you can say oh I need alternatives like you can say oh I need like there's plugins for Firefox that'll like there's plugins for Firefox that'll like there's plugins for Firefox that'll say this app needs Chrome when you enter say this app needs Chrome when you enter say this app needs Chrome when you enter this URL jump out of Firefox and jump this URL jump out of Firefox and jump this URL jump out of Firefox and jump into Chrome. So you can make the into Chrome. So you can make the into Chrome. So you can make the transition like as simple as you want transition like as simple as you want transition like as simple as you want but there's there's nobility in trying but there's there's nobility in trying but there's there's nobility in trying to avoid a browser monoculture I think. to avoid a browser monoculture I think. to avoid a browser monoculture I think. And there's also I mean like I I'm a big And there's also I mean like I I'm a big And there's also I mean like I I'm a big believer that people should own domains believer that people should own domains believer that people should own domains and and websites and and and have home and and websites and and and have home and and websites and and and have home labs like I've had a home lab for oh labs like I've had a home lab for oh labs like I've had a home lab for oh yeah for a long long time. I've been yeah for a long long time. I've been yeah for a long long time. I've been running a Plex server for I don't know running a Plex server for I don't know running a Plex server for I don't know how long now, right? Like I have like a how long now, right? Like I have like a how long now, right? Like I have like a thousand DVDs stacked over here in my thousand DVDs stacked over here in my thousand DVDs stacked over here in my garage that like I rip DVDs still. Like garage that like I rip DVDs still. Like garage that like I rip DVDs still. Like I buy them on Offer Up. I'll bought two I buy them on Offer Up. I'll bought two I buy them on Offer Up. I'll bought two DVDs last week that I could not find DVDs last week that I could not find DVDs last week that I could not find anywhere I was streaming. I'm like I'm anywhere I was streaming. I'm like I'm anywhere I was streaming. I'm like I'm just buy the DVD, put them in Plex.

just buy the DVD, put them in Plex. just buy the DVD, put them in Plex. They're mine. Yeah. Like they're going They're mine. Yeah. Like they're going They're mine. Yeah. Like they're going to make you pay $9 or whatever $5 on on to make you pay $9 or whatever $5 on on to make you pay $9 or whatever $5 on on Prime, but you find the same thing for Prime, but you find the same thing for Prime, but you find the same thing for $5 then rip it. Yeah. Yep. That's great. $5 then rip it. Yeah. Yep. That's great. $5 then rip it. Yeah. Yep. That's great. Yeah. I got a Plex. I've got Plex. I run Yeah. I got a Plex. I've got Plex. I run Yeah. I got a Plex. I've got Plex. I run a Synology Naz. Yep. And I've got I a Synology Naz. Yep. And I've got I a Synology Naz. Yep. And I've got I don't know 72 terabytes. Just way too don't know 72 terabytes. Just way too don't know 72 terabytes. Just way too many. Like I have every photograph and many. Like I have every photograph and many. Like I have every photograph and video I've ever taken since like 1995. video I've ever taken since like 1995. video I've ever taken since like 1995. Like I had the old remember the Kodak Like I had the old remember the Kodak Like I had the old remember the Kodak square digital camera in the '90s. Like square digital camera in the '90s. Like square digital camera in the '90s. Like I've got every every picture I've ever I've got every every picture I've ever I've got every every picture I've ever taken on that NAS. And then because the taken on that NAS. And then because the taken on that NAS. And then because the Synology runs Docker so well and I ended Synology runs Docker so well and I ended Synology runs Docker so well and I ended up putting um was it port Portainer on up putting um was it port Portainer on up putting um was it port Portainer on it. So like I'm pushing that thing hard. it. So like I'm pushing that thing hard. it. So like I'm pushing that thing hard. I assume you're doing similar things. I assume you're doing similar things. I assume you're doing similar things. Yeah. I got the x861. I upgraded the Yeah. I got the x861. I upgraded the Yeah. I got the x861. I upgraded the memory. I think I have like maybe 35 memory. I think I have like maybe 35 memory. I think I have like maybe 35 terabytes something like that. I was terabytes something like that. I was terabytes something like that. I was like it's fine. I just it's good enough. like it's fine. I just it's good enough. like it's fine. I just it's good enough. I have a bunch of movies on there and I have a bunch of movies on there and I have a bunch of movies on there and it's such a great device. Computer it's such a great device. Computer it's such a great device. Computer backups to it. I don't have to pay. I backups to it. I don't have to pay. I backups to it. I don't have to pay. I mean like and granted these are mean like and granted these are mean like and granted these are investments. Like these are time investments. Like these are time investments. Like these are time investments. These are money investments investments. These are money investments investments. These are money investments to do this. Like the cloud services are to do this. Like the cloud services are to do this. Like the cloud services are way more convenient. I'm it doesn't mean way more convenient. I'm it doesn't mean way more convenient. I'm it doesn't mean that I'm not paying Apple's $10 two that I'm not paying Apple's $10 two that I'm not paying Apple's $10 two terabyte upload thing too, right? It's terabyte upload thing too, right? It's terabyte upload thing too, right? It's like the other side of it like well I like the other side of it like well I like the other side of it like well I have this thing. I have all this have this thing. I have all this have this thing. I have all this storage. It should exist. But also like storage. It should exist. But also like storage. It should exist. But also like you know my we lost power last week and you know my we lost power last week and you know my we lost power last week and we lost internet you know a couple weeks we lost internet you know a couple weeks we lost internet you know a couple weeks ago. I'm like oh Plex still works. Like ago. I'm like oh Plex still works. Like ago. I'm like oh Plex still works. Like we're fine. Like we have a thousand we're fine. Like we have a thousand we're fine. Like we have a thousand movies in here that all the kids watch movies in here that all the kids watch movies in here that all the kids watch and we can still listen to the audio and we can still listen to the audio and we can still listen to the audio books and movies and or Okay. So then books and movies and or Okay. So then books and movies and or Okay. So then what's the front end on the TV? So like what's the front end on the TV? So like what's the front end on the TV? So like having a Plex server is one thing, but having a Plex server is one thing, but having a Plex server is one thing, but then would you just plug a laptop into then would you just plug a laptop into then would you just plug a laptop into the TV and then hit it with uh the the TV and then hit it with uh the the TV and then hit it with uh the internet? Apple Apple TV with Plex. Oh, internet? Apple Apple TV with Plex. Oh, internet? Apple Apple TV with Plex. Oh, okay. So there's there's a Plex app for

okay. So there's there's a Plex app for okay. So there's there's a Plex app for Apple TV. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. Apple TV. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. Apple TV. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. See, that's really nice. Now then what See, that's really nice. Now then what See, that's really nice. Now then what about Home Assistant? Because I run Home about Home Assistant? Because I run Home about Home Assistant? Because I run Home Assistant in a Docker container. Do you Assistant in a Docker container. Do you Assistant in a Docker container. Do you do the same? Yep. Yeah. That's awesome. do the same? Yep. Yeah. That's awesome. do the same? Yep. Yeah. That's awesome. I I don't use Home Assistant as much. I I don't use Home Assistant as much. I I don't use Home Assistant as much. Like I use Homebridge a little more. Like I use Homebridge a little more. Like I use Homebridge a little more. Like I tried to like go all in on the on Like I tried to like go all in on the on Like I tried to like go all in on the on the Apple ecosystem because the Google the Apple ecosystem because the Google the Apple ecosystem because the Google home automation system. The irony though home automation system. The irony though home automation system. The irony though that you're a hardcore Linux head who's that you're a hardcore Linux head who's that you're a hardcore Linux head who's deleging his life. But you're like, "But deleging his life. But you're like, "But deleging his life. But you're like, "But Apple's cool." I I don't think Apple's Apple's cool." I I don't think Apple's Apple's cool." I I don't think Apple's like I I can Mac OS. I don't I don't like I I can Mac OS. I don't I don't like I I can Mac OS. I don't I don't like a lot of the Apple hardware. I do like a lot of the Apple hardware. I do like a lot of the Apple hardware. I do like the mobile devices. Like I do have like the mobile devices. Like I do have like the mobile devices. Like I do have an iPad. I do have an iPhone. And And an iPad. I do have an iPhone. And And an iPad. I do have an iPhone. And And really that comes down to like just the really that comes down to like just the really that comes down to like just the family and wife acceptance factor thing, family and wife acceptance factor thing, family and wife acceptance factor thing, right? It's like, "Hey, you know what? right? It's like, "Hey, you know what? right? It's like, "Hey, you know what? like I'm trying to make this as easy as like I'm trying to make this as easy as like I'm trying to make this as easy as possible and I did acceptance factor is possible and I did acceptance factor is possible and I did acceptance factor is a big challenge. I I did overly a big challenge. I I did overly a big challenge. I I did overly complicate some of our automation at my complicate some of our automation at my complicate some of our automation at my house and I've just tried to like you house and I've just tried to like you house and I've just tried to like you know pull back from that too. But I also know pull back from that too. But I also know pull back from that too. But I also with home assistant it runs locally with home assistant it runs locally with home assistant it runs locally right like that's another home assistant right like that's another home assistant right like that's another home assistant and homebridge these are local I don't and homebridge these are local I don't and homebridge these are local I don't have to call out to the cloud when when have to call out to the cloud when when have to call out to the cloud when when some service is down it doesn't matter some service is down it doesn't matter some service is down it doesn't matter if the internet was down didn't actually if the internet was down didn't actually if the internet was down didn't actually matter I can still automate those things matter I can still automate those things matter I can still automate those things and uh and so that was nice just keeping and uh and so that was nice just keeping and uh and so that was nice just keeping it local in the network was a big and it local in the network was a big and it local in the network was a big and and and some of that is like thread is and and some of that is like thread is and and some of that is like thread is like a new like standard for it which is like a new like standard for it which is like a new like standard for it which is basically home not home assistant basically home not home assistant basically home not home assistant homebridge the apple ecosystem home kit homebridge the apple ecosystem home kit homebridge the apple ecosystem home kit that's what it's called they donated that's what it's called they donated that's what it's called they donated this thread library and everything like this thread library and everything like this thread library and everything like it's a standard now it's just not fully it's a standard now it's just not fully it's a standard now it's just not fully there yet. So I went into Homebridge there yet. So I went into Homebridge there yet. So I went into Homebridge because I knew that was a future because I knew that was a future because I knew that was a future standard that I was just going to go standard that I was just going to go standard that I was just going to go into. I've had Powus from Home Assistant into. I've had Powus from Home Assistant into. I've had Powus from Home Assistant on and just a couple of weeks ago I had

on and just a couple of weeks ago I had on and just a couple of weeks ago I had Dr. Michael Hansen who made the voice Dr. Michael Hansen who made the voice Dr. Michael Hansen who made the voice stuff. So Home Assist they have home stuff. So Home Assist they have home stuff. So Home Assist they have home assistant voice now. So it's basically assistant voice now. So it's basically assistant voice now. So it's basically an Alexa puck for home assistant. And an Alexa puck for home assistant. And an Alexa puck for home assistant. And the idea that you could put your house the idea that you could put your house the idea that you could put your house into airplane mode and be cool and be into airplane mode and be cool and be into airplane mode and be cool and be fine. It actually got me thinking if I fine. It actually got me thinking if I fine. It actually got me thinking if I should make an internet in a box. Have should make an internet in a box. Have should make an internet in a box. Have you seen the internet in a box project? you seen the internet in a box project? you seen the internet in a box project? Yeah. Right. So, it's just like download Yeah. Right. So, it's just like download Yeah. Right. So, it's just like download the entire internet which is really the entire internet which is really the entire internet which is really Wikipedia plus a bunch of survivalist Wikipedia plus a bunch of survivalist Wikipedia plus a bunch of survivalist PDFs and like run it on a on a you know PDFs and like run it on a on a you know PDFs and like run it on a on a you know run it on your NAS and it's like okay run it on your NAS and it's like okay run it on your NAS and it's like okay the power is out. What's what's left? the power is out. What's what's left? the power is out. What's what's left? You know I feel like on this on the You know I feel like on this on the You know I feel like on this on the Walking Dead I would love an episode Walking Dead I would love an episode Walking Dead I would love an episode where Justin's on the Walking Dead. The where Justin's on the Walking Dead. The where Justin's on the Walking Dead. The zombie apocalypse has happened right cuz zombie apocalypse has happened right cuz zombie apocalypse has happened right cuz you never see any software engineers on you never see any software engineers on you never see any software engineers on the Walking Dead. We were all eaten very the Walking Dead. We were all eaten very the Walking Dead. We were all eaten very quickly cuz none of us can run. But then quickly cuz none of us can run. But then quickly cuz none of us can run. But then you then everyone shows up to your house you then everyone shows up to your house you then everyone shows up to your house and you're all watching Plex and the and you're all watching Plex and the and you're all watching Plex and the internet doesn't exist anymore, but you internet doesn't exist anymore, but you internet doesn't exist anymore, but you have full support for everything. I got have full support for everything. I got have full support for everything. I got I got solar panels and batteries I got solar panels and batteries I got solar panels and batteries installed last year and so yeah. No, installed last year and so yeah. No, installed last year and so yeah. No, like I'm literally like like throwing like I'm literally like like throwing like I'm literally like like throwing extension cords over to my neighbors. extension cords over to my neighbors. extension cords over to my neighbors. Like we had power outages recently. I'm Like we had power outages recently. I'm Like we had power outages recently. I'm like, "Hey, you need charge your phone?

like, "Hey, you need charge your phone? like, "Hey, you need charge your phone? Here you go." Like cuz I got it. Like Here you go." Like cuz I got it. Like Here you go." Like cuz I got it. Like and I was like, "Let me just calculate and I was like, "Let me just calculate and I was like, "Let me just calculate enough power." And I'm in Southern enough power." And I'm in Southern enough power." And I'm in Southern California, so sun's up most of the California, so sun's up most of the California, so sun's up most of the time. I was like, "Hey, just sun down to time. I was like, "Hey, just sun down to time. I was like, "Hey, just sun down to sun up and I'm good." like you give me sun up and I'm good." like you give me sun up and I'm good." like you give me that much battery and we're fine. And that much battery and we're fine. And that much battery and we're fine. And and literally like I lost power you like and literally like I lost power you like and literally like I lost power you like I said a week or two ago and it was like I said a week or two ago and it was like I said a week or two ago and it was like yeah no no big deal. I couldn't use my yeah no no big deal. I couldn't use my yeah no no big deal. I couldn't use my AC is like one of the Did you do you did AC is like one of the Did you do you did AC is like one of the Did you do you did do you have a an interlock or how did do you have a an interlock or how did do you have a an interlock or how did you switch from power to no power or you you switch from power to no power or you you switch from power to no power or you are you back up all the time? It's it's are you back up all the time? It's it's are you back up all the time? It's it's automatic like it's in the like in the automatic like it's in the like in the automatic like it's in the like in the junction box. So like it auto auto junction box. So like it auto auto junction box. So like it auto auto switches like we'll see the lights dim switches like we'll see the lights dim switches like we'll see the lights dim for half a second just like oh we're on for half a second just like oh we're on for half a second just like oh we're on we must be on battery now. It's just we must be on battery now. It's just we must be on battery now. It's just that's the dream. What a cool thing. Do that's the dream. What a cool thing. Do that's the dream. What a cool thing. Do you And you have dual internet? I mean I you And you have dual internet? I mean I you And you have dual internet? I mean I my my arrows can tether off my phone if my my arrows can tether off my phone if my my arrows can tether off my phone if need be. Like it has a it can join a need be. Like it has a it can join a need be. Like it has a it can join a hotspot and so I could tether it from hotspot and so I could tether it from hotspot and so I could tether it from there. You said your arrows. Is that there. You said your arrows. Is that there. You said your arrows. Is that your router? The Yeah, the the is Amazon your router? The Yeah, the the is Amazon your router? The Yeah, the the is Amazon EOS. Oh, EOS. Okay. Got Oh, interesting. EOS. Oh, EOS. Okay. Got Oh, interesting. EOS. Oh, EOS. Okay. Got Oh, interesting. Okay. All right. So, as we get towards Okay. All right. So, as we get towards Okay. All right. So, as we get towards the end of our Linux exploration, I love the end of our Linux exploration, I love the end of our Linux exploration, I love I can visualize your house and I'm I can visualize your house and I'm I can visualize your house and I'm excited that you're going to survive the excited that you're going to survive the excited that you're going to survive the zombie apocalypse and I'll be going to zombie apocalypse and I'll be going to zombie apocalypse and I'll be going to your house to watch movies. Um, if I your house to watch movies. Um, if I your house to watch movies. Um, if I were going to put non-technical parent, were going to put non-technical parent, were going to put non-technical parent, you know, like my mom or dad, uh, on a you know, like my mom or dad, uh, on a you know, like my mom or dad, uh, on a Linux DRO, what do you think? Where do Linux DRO, what do you think? Where do Linux DRO, what do you think? Where do you think that the the newbie should go you think that the the newbie should go you think that the the newbie should go when they're exploring Linux on me a when they're exploring Linux on me a when they're exploring Linux on me a laptop they've got lying around? They've laptop they've got lying around? They've laptop they've got lying around? They've got a ThinkPad they want to bring back got a ThinkPad they want to bring back got a ThinkPad they want to bring back to life. What do you What do you to life. What do you What do you to life. What do you What do you recommend? Well, I mean, I I if you're recommend? Well, I mean, I I if you're recommend? Well, I mean, I I if you're buying something, go get a Chromebook, buying something, go get a Chromebook, buying something, go get a Chromebook, right? Like it's just the the easiest.

right? Like it's just the the easiest. right? Like it's just the the easiest. Like I've bought almost all all my Like I've bought almost all all my Like I've bought almost all all my family, you know, extended family. If family, you know, extended family. If family, you know, extended family. If I'm doing support for them, they saying I'm doing support for them, they saying I'm doing support for them, they saying get a Chromebook. You want to de Google get a Chromebook. You want to de Google get a Chromebook. You want to de Google your life and then Yeah. Yeah. I'm your life and then Yeah. Yeah. I'm your life and then Yeah. Yeah. I'm giving it to them. Yeah. Uh, you can't giving it to them. Yeah. Uh, you can't giving it to them. Yeah. Uh, you can't like I didn't dual booting on like I didn't dual booting on like I didn't dual booting on Chromebooks is is kind of a mess if I'm Chromebooks is is kind of a mess if I'm Chromebooks is is kind of a mess if I'm if I'm just like here's and I've done if I'm just like here's and I've done if I'm just like here's and I've done this in the past. Uh, I used to do the this in the past. Uh, I used to do the this in the past. Uh, I used to do the Linux Mint podcast, Mintcast way back in Linux Mint podcast, Mintcast way back in Linux Mint podcast, Mintcast way back in the day and and so I was a big fan of the day and and so I was a big fan of the day and and so I was a big fan of Linux Mint because it was a Windows-like Linux Mint because it was a Windows-like Linux Mint because it was a Windows-like experience for many of them. I don't experience for many of them. I don't experience for many of them. I don't think they have a good update story. So think they have a good update story. So think they have a good update story. So like that's still like difficult. It's like that's still like difficult. It's like that's still like difficult. It's it's difficult like a Windows update is it's difficult like a Windows update is it's difficult like a Windows update is difficult and a Mac update is difficult. difficult and a Mac update is difficult. difficult and a Mac update is difficult. It's not that it's Yeah, it's a moment. It's not that it's Yeah, it's a moment. It's not that it's Yeah, it's a moment. It's like Yeah, it's not It's like Yeah, it's not It's like Yeah, it's not incomprehensible. It's just like oh this incomprehensible. It's just like oh this incomprehensible. It's just like oh this should be easier. Uh, but I mean I I do should be easier. Uh, but I mean I I do should be easier. Uh, but I mean I I do enjoy the a client sort of approach that enjoy the a client sort of approach that enjoy the a client sort of approach that like Basite and Bluefin kind of give for like Basite and Bluefin kind of give for like Basite and Bluefin kind of give for it doesn't have to be like this is just it doesn't have to be like this is just it doesn't have to be like this is just a a desktop. It's just it's if you know a a desktop. It's just it's if you know a a desktop. It's just it's if you know how to open a browser, you're fine and how to open a browser, you're fine and how to open a browser, you're fine and updates are automatic. As soon as you updates are automatic. As soon as you updates are automatic. As soon as you reboot the device, yeah, you have reboot the device, yeah, you have reboot the device, yeah, you have updates. It doesn't matter. And if you updates. It doesn't matter. And if you updates. It doesn't matter. And if you don't reboot the device, it doesn't don't reboot the device, it doesn't don't reboot the device, it doesn't matter. You're not getting updates. It's matter. You're not getting updates. It's matter. You're not getting updates. It's like just like a Chromebook. And so that like just like a Chromebook. And so that like just like a Chromebook. And so that side of it is I've I very much have been side of it is I've I very much have been side of it is I've I very much have been enjoying that and I've been sharing enjoying that and I've been sharing enjoying that and I've been sharing people those dros just because they feel people those dros just because they feel people those dros just because they feel more stable and more like an appliance more stable and more like an appliance more stable and more like an appliance for the the the normal computer user, for the the the normal computer user, for the the the normal computer user, someone that's not like me uh in the someone that's not like me uh in the someone that's not like me uh in the nitty-gritty of it. That's cool. You nitty-gritty of it. That's cool. You nitty-gritty of it. That's cool. You know, whenever I see um like a user know, whenever I see um like a user know, whenever I see um like a user interface in a movie or a TV show, I interface in a movie or a TV show, I interface in a movie or a TV show, I always ask myself, did they draw that always ask myself, did they draw that always ask myself, did they draw that themselves or is that a Linux distro I'm themselves or is that a Linux distro I'm themselves or is that a Linux distro I'm not yet familiar with? I always see like not yet familiar with? I always see like not yet familiar with? I always see like the the Finder, the Explorer, or the the Finder, the Explorer, or the the Finder, the Explorer, or whatever. like is this a flash whatever. like is this a flash whatever. like is this a flash application that they made or is this application that they made or is this application that they made or is this real? The the uh the project bluefin

real? The the uh the project bluefin real? The the uh the project bluefin which we talked about a little bit is at which we talked about a little bit is at which we talked about a little bit is at project project project bluefin.io and then your podcast fork bluefin.io and then your podcast fork bluefin.io and then your podcast fork around and find out is at around and find out is at around and find out is at fafo.fm folks can check that out and fafo.fm folks can check that out and fafo.fm folks can check that out and then all things Justin garrison are at then all things Justin garrison are at then all things Justin garrison are at just just just garrison.com. Thanks so much for hanging garrison.com. Thanks so much for hanging garrison.com. Thanks so much for hanging out with me today and educating me on out with me today and educating me on out with me today and educating me on the state of the Linux desktop. Thanks the state of the Linux desktop. Thanks the state of the Linux desktop. Thanks for having me Scott. This has been for having me Scott. This has been for having me Scott. This has been another episode of Hansel Minutes another episode of Hansel Minutes another episode of Hansel Minutes Sandhe. See you again next week.