Local AI empowers startups with StoryGraph's Rob Frelow

do you have a WPF application and want do you have a WPF application and want to take it to Mac OS or Linux avalonia to take it to Mac OS or Linux avalonia to take it to Mac OS or Linux avalonia xpf is a binary compatible crossplatform xpf is a binary compatible crossplatform xpf is a binary compatible crossplatform Fork of WPF it enables WPF apps to run Fork of WPF it enables WPF apps to run Fork of WPF it enables WPF apps to run on New platforms with minimal effort and on New platforms with minimal effort and on New platforms with minimal effort and maximum compatibility with a few tweaks maximum compatibility with a few tweaks maximum compatibility with a few tweaks to your project file your WPF app and to your project file your WPF app and to your project file your WPF app and all its dependencies are ready for all its dependencies are ready for all its dependencies are ready for testing on new platforms start your app testing on new platforms start your app testing on new platforms start your app transformation Journey with a 30-day transformation Journey with a 30-day transformation Journey with a 30-day free trial head over to avalonia free trial head over to avalonia free trial head over to avalonia ui.net / Hansel minutes to get started ui.net / Hansel minutes to get started ui.net / Hansel minutes to get started today that's avalonia today that's avalonia today that's avalonia ui.net Hansel ui.net Hansel ui.net Hansel [Music] [Music] [Music] minutes hi I'm Scott Hanselman this is minutes hi I'm Scott Hanselman this is minutes hi I'm Scott Hanselman this is another episode of Hansel minutes today another episode of Hansel minutes today another episode of Hansel minutes today I'm chatting with Rob frilo he's a I'm chatting with Rob frilo he's a I'm chatting with Rob frilo he's a co-founder and chief AI officer at the co-founder and chief AI officer at the co-founder and chief AI officer at the story graph how are you sir hello I'm story graph how are you sir hello I'm story graph how are you sir hello I'm doing great thanks for having me on doing great thanks for having me on doing great thanks for having me on you've had a big couple of days of you've had a big couple of days of you've had a big couple of days of course it'll be weeks past by the time course it'll be weeks past by the time course it'll be weeks past by the time the show gets out but you were on the the show gets out but you were on the the show gets out but you were on the App Store very high up in uh the uh the App Store very high up in uh the uh the App Store very high up in uh the uh the books category so congratulations on books category so congratulations on books category so congratulations on that yes thank you thank you it's been that yes thank you thank you it's been that yes thank you thank you it's been quite a wild ride these last few days quite a wild ride these last few days quite a wild ride these last few days hopefully got lots of users and learned hopefully got lots of users and learned hopefully got lots of users and learned a lot of stuff uh I had an observability a lot of stuff uh I had an observability a lot of stuff uh I had an observability expert on and they said that you just expert on and they said that you just expert on and they said that you just learn so much during these moments if learn so much during these moments if learn so much during these moments if you've got a very observable stack yes I you've got a very observable stack yes I you've got a very observable stack yes I love that my stack is observable I mean love that my stack is observable I mean love that my stack is observable I mean it's a des St access I know exactly

it's a des St access I know exactly it's a des St access I know exactly where the servers are I'm the one where the servers are I'm the one where the servers are I'm the one running all the code on it so I have running all the code on it so I have running all the code on it so I have full observability and when it goes full observability and when it goes full observability and when it goes wrong I know exactly where it is doesn't wrong I know exactly where it is doesn't wrong I know exactly where it is doesn't always make it easier to fix the problem always make it easier to fix the problem always make it easier to fix the problem but I know exactly where it is I know but I know exactly where it is I know but I know exactly where it is I know exactly where to go let's talk about exactly where to go let's talk about exactly where to go let's talk about that and your your co-founder is Nadia that and your your co-founder is Nadia that and your your co-founder is Nadia odono and you you are a startup so you odono and you you are a startup so you odono and you you are a startup so you recently moved off of Heroku and I would recently moved off of Heroku and I would recently moved off of Heroku and I would expect that startups go to the cloud expect that startups go to the cloud expect that startups go to the cloud like I wouldn't even conceive that a like I wouldn't even conceive that a like I wouldn't even conceive that a startup would not use Some Cloud but you startup would not use Some Cloud but you startup would not use Some Cloud but you consciously made the decision to move consciously made the decision to move consciously made the decision to move off of a of a relatively inexpensive off of a of a relatively inexpensive off of a of a relatively inexpensive Cloud to go with bare metal servers why Cloud to go with bare metal servers why Cloud to go with bare metal servers why is that oh frankly we had to we didn't is that oh frankly we had to we didn't is that oh frankly we had to we didn't have a choice I don't think that the have a choice I don't think that the have a choice I don't think that the cloud works very well when you have a cloud works very well when you have a cloud works very well when you have a freemium model when you have millions of freemium model when you have millions of freemium model when you have millions of users coming to your site using your app users coming to your site using your app users coming to your site using your app you're doing very write and read intense you're doing very write and read intense you're doing very write and read intense actions that require a very powerful actions that require a very powerful actions that require a very powerful database and they're on the app for many database and they're on the app for many database and they're on the app for many minutes at a time we found that as our minutes at a time we found that as our minutes at a time we found that as our user numbers went up our costs went up user numbers went up our costs went up user numbers went up our costs went up in lock step to the point where we were in lock step to the point where we were in lock step to the point where we were literally never going to be profitable literally never going to be profitable literally never going to be profitable and we forecasted it out into the future and we forecasted it out into the future and we forecasted it out into the future and we saw that our company had no and we saw that our company had no and we saw that our company had no future if we stayed on Hoku we had to future if we stayed on Hoku we had to future if we stayed on Hoku we had to get off it was a forced decision and get off it was a forced decision and get off it was a forced decision and frankly it's been wonderful it's been frankly it's been wonderful it's been frankly it's been wonderful it's been wonderful so that's amazing so you're wonderful so that's amazing so you're wonderful so that's amazing so you're you moved to Bare Metal servers now are you moved to Bare Metal servers now are you moved to Bare Metal servers now are these like we went to PC Micro Center these like we went to PC Micro Center these like we went to PC Micro Center and bought servers and they're running and bought servers and they're running and bought servers and they're running in Rob's garage or where where did you in Rob's garage or where where did you in Rob's garage or where where did you find that balance because there's find that balance because there's find that balance because there's hosting there's the cloud there's hosting there's the cloud there's hosting there's the cloud there's running your own infrastructure I

running your own infrastructure I running your own infrastructure I actually did pitch setting up my garage actually did pitch setting up my garage actually did pitch setting up my garage with a bunch of servers and in some ways with a bunch of servers and in some ways with a bunch of servers and in some ways it makes sense but in many more real it makes sense but in many more real it makes sense but in many more real ways it does not make sense when we ways it does not make sense when we ways it does not make sense when we realized we had to migrate away from realized we had to migrate away from realized we had to migrate away from Heroku the big issue that we saw wasn't Heroku the big issue that we saw wasn't Heroku the big issue that we saw wasn't specifically where do we get the servers specifically where do we get the servers specifically where do we get the servers where do we host the servers that was a where do we host the servers that was a where do we host the servers that was a big issue but it was how do we deploy to big issue but it was how do we deploy to big issue but it was how do we deploy to the servers in an easy way our entire the servers in an easy way our entire the servers in an easy way our entire company only has two full-time people company only has two full-time people company only has two full-time people and N is the only developer I do machine and N is the only developer I do machine and N is the only developer I do machine learning side I create apis for her and learning side I create apis for her and learning side I create apis for her and I handle the back end but she's the only I handle the back end but she's the only I handle the back end but she's the only developer so we needed as far back as I developer so we needed as far back as I developer so we needed as far back as I can remember every boot camp every Tech can remember every boot camp every Tech can remember every boot camp every Tech boot camp teaches you like on Heroku boot camp teaches you like on Heroku boot camp teaches you like on Heroku it's the easiest or at least it was it's the easiest or at least it was it's the easiest or at least it was probably still is the easiest way to probably still is the easiest way to probably still is the easiest way to just get an app up and running with as just get an app up and running with as just get an app up and running with as little fuss as possible and we thought little fuss as possible and we thought little fuss as possible and we thought that we might lose that if we went to that we might lose that if we went to that we might lose that if we went to bare metal and that's when I did weeks bare metal and that's when I did weeks bare metal and that's when I did weeks and weeks and months of research and I and weeks and months of research and I and weeks and months of research and I found Cloud 66 and well Cloud 66 allows found Cloud 66 and well Cloud 66 allows found Cloud 66 and well Cloud 66 allows you to do it gives us the same you to do it gives us the same you to do it gives us the same flexibility and the same ease of use as flexibility and the same ease of use as flexibility and the same ease of use as Heroku but we can choose where the Heroku but we can choose where the Heroku but we can choose where the servers are if I wanted the servers to servers are if I wanted the servers to servers are if I wanted the servers to be in my garage I could just point it to be in my garage I could just point it to be in my garage I could just point it to the IP in my garage and it will the IP in my garage and it will the IP in my garage and it will provision those servers for me Cloud 66 provision those servers for me Cloud 66 provision those servers for me Cloud 66 is really the reason why we were able to is really the reason why we were able to is really the reason why we were able to be profitable because we did not need to be profitable because we did not need to be profitable because we did not need to hire anyone else to manage the service hire anyone else to manage the service hire anyone else to manage the service for us I can handle it along with Cloud for us I can handle it along with Cloud for us I can handle it along with Cloud 66 and all Nadia has to focus on is 66 and all Nadia has to focus on is 66 and all Nadia has to focus on is doing her code and it was the perfect doing her code and it was the perfect doing her code and it was the perfect combination now to get more direct to combination now to get more direct to combination now to get more direct to your question now yes yes I could have your question now yes yes I could have your question now yes yes I could have chosen servers in my garage but for a chosen servers in my garage but for a chosen servers in my garage but for a lot of reasons that doesn't work I could lot of reasons that doesn't work I could lot of reasons that doesn't work I could have chosen Cloud servers I already

have chosen Cloud servers I already have chosen Cloud servers I already explained that wouldn't work too costly explained that wouldn't work too costly explained that wouldn't work too costly so yeah so we rent bare metal servers so yeah so we rent bare metal servers so yeah so we rent bare metal servers that's what we do yeah that's that's what we do yeah that's that's what we do yeah that's interesting I want to make sure that interesting I want to make sure that interesting I want to make sure that people understand that the cloud 66 people understand that the cloud 66 people understand that the cloud 66 isn't a host it's a solution for isn't a host it's a solution for isn't a host it's a solution for building for deploying and for managing building for deploying and for managing building for deploying and for managing applications but it's Cloud applications but it's Cloud applications but it's Cloud nonspecific and it takes your you know nonspecific and it takes your you know nonspecific and it takes your you know it allows you to have that Heroku Style it allows you to have that Heroku Style it allows you to have that Heroku Style just push to a repository cicd whether just push to a repository cicd whether just push to a repository cicd whether it's in a monor repo or a multi- repo it's in a monor repo or a multi- repo it's in a monor repo or a multi- repo setup and then whatever if you want to setup and then whatever if you want to setup and then whatever if you want to use cloud 66 to talk to you know Azure use cloud 66 to talk to you know Azure use cloud 66 to talk to you know Azure or Leno or AWS you can and you chose to or Leno or AWS you can and you chose to or Leno or AWS you can and you chose to do it to metal which I think is a really do it to metal which I think is a really do it to metal which I think is a really interesting decision yes the next stage interesting decision yes the next stage interesting decision yes the next stage beyond that would be a collocation but beyond that would be a collocation but beyond that would be a collocation but even that it's fascinating to me I even that it's fascinating to me I even that it's fascinating to me I really want to I want to have a physical really want to I want to have a physical really want to I want to have a physical Hardware that I own that's in a CO Hardware that I own that's in a CO Hardware that I own that's in a CO location dedicated data center somewhere location dedicated data center somewhere location dedicated data center somewhere that I can just drive to and fix stuff that I can just drive to and fix stuff that I can just drive to and fix stuff but then I think I'm gonna have to drive but then I think I'm gonna have to drive but then I think I'm gonna have to drive there and fix stuff so there and fix stuff so there and fix stuff so That's funny though because people who That's funny though because people who That's funny though because people who may not know but I you know you and I may not know but I you know you and I may not know but I you know you and I have been friends for a number of years have been friends for a number of years have been friends for a number of years and I've always thought of you as and I've always thought of you as and I've always thought of you as someone who drives stick shift and you someone who drives stick shift and you someone who drives stick shift and you enjoy that though you you want to touch enjoy that though you you want to touch enjoy that though you you want to touch those servers so the idea of Rob is those servers so the idea of Rob is those servers so the idea of Rob is going to drive to visit the servers just going to drive to visit the servers just going to drive to visit the servers just to put his hand on the hard drive and to put his hand on the hard drive and to put his hand on the hard drive and feel it you know spinning is such a Rob feel it you know spinning is such a Rob feel it you know spinning is such a Rob Freo thing to do so that's interesting Freo thing to do so that's interesting Freo thing to do so that's interesting how do you justify that though when you how do you justify that though when you how do you justify that though when you have a situation where just last week uh have a situation where just last week uh have a situation where just last week uh you are moving your way up the app store you are moving your way up the app store you are moving your way up the app store because the cloud provides elasticity because the cloud provides elasticity because the cloud provides elasticity can you call your bare metal people and can you call your bare metal people and can you call your bare metal people and they they can rack it maybe not as fast

they they can rack it maybe not as fast they they can rack it maybe not as fast as the cloud but they can get you more as the cloud but they can get you more as the cloud but they can get you more capacity yes I can get new servers capacity yes I can get new servers capacity yes I can get new servers dedicated servers within minutes the dedicated servers within minutes the dedicated servers within minutes the issue was not specifically the number of issue was not specifically the number of issue was not specifically the number of servers the issue is was same issue servers the issue is was same issue servers the issue is was same issue we've most companies have is is the we've most companies have is is the we've most companies have is is the database and I already had the most database and I already had the most database and I already had the most expensive database I can get and expensive database I can get and expensive database I can get and apparently I needed two or three or four apparently I needed two or three or four apparently I needed two or three or four and I needed to set up replication and and I needed to set up replication and and I needed to set up replication and maybe I need to have a distributed maybe I need to have a distributed maybe I need to have a distributed database so there's all these things database so there's all these things database so there's all these things that I'm learning now that before this that I'm learning now that before this that I'm learning now that before this latest holiday season where everyone has latest holiday season where everyone has latest holiday season where everyone has joined the app I always had in the back joined the app I always had in the back joined the app I always had in the back of my mind like yes I need to learn how of my mind like yes I need to learn how of my mind like yes I need to learn how to do this but I think our setup will to do this but I think our setup will to do this but I think our setup will last us pretty far and it just last us pretty far and it just last us pretty far and it just expectations for this holiday season expectations for this holiday season expectations for this holiday season just blew it blew it all out of the just blew it blew it all out of the just blew it blew it all out of the water that's amazing uh it is an water that's amazing uh it is an water that's amazing uh it is an interesting thing though because you are interesting thing though because you are interesting thing though because you are freemium right someone could log in like freemium right someone could log in like freemium right someone could log in like I'm logged into the story gra.com right I'm logged into the story gra.com right I'm logged into the story gra.com right now and it's all about these kind of now and it's all about these kind of now and it's all about these kind of order n for Loops where it's like okay order n for Loops where it's like okay order n for Loops where it's like okay uh I'm a guy Scott who has n number of uh I'm a guy Scott who has n number of uh I'm a guy Scott who has n number of books and then all the stats that go books and then all the stats that go books and then all the stats that go along with that and the combinatorics along with that and the combinatorics along with that and the combinatorics become huge and the joins and all the become huge and the joins and all the become huge and the joins and all the work that you're doing in that backend work that you're doing in that backend work that you're doing in that backend database are going be huge and I haven't database are going be huge and I haven't database are going be huge and I haven't paid you yet yeah that's exactly why we paid you yet yeah that's exactly why we paid you yet yeah that's exactly why we needed to have a lowcost solution so we needed to have a lowcost solution so we needed to have a lowcost solution so we have well over 2 million registered have well over 2 million registered have well over 2 million registered users right now we have a lot more users users right now we have a lot more users users right now we have a lot more users who don't sign in who does use the app who don't sign in who does use the app who don't sign in who does use the app to help find their next book so when I to help find their next book so when I to help find their next book so when I look at the stats we have about right look at the stats we have about right look at the stats we have about right now about 50 million books or viewed now about 50 million books or viewed now about 50 million books or viewed every day and when I try to think about

every day and when I try to think about every day and when I try to think about what type of business model would work what type of business model would work what type of business model would work well there a lot of people are surprised well there a lot of people are surprised well there a lot of people are surprised people come up to me all the time and people come up to me all the time and people come up to me all the time and say but how do you make money you have say but how do you make money you have say but how do you make money you have all these users and nobody's paying you all these users and nobody's paying you all these users and nobody's paying you exactly as you asked me just now and I exactly as you asked me just now and I exactly as you asked me just now and I think we are very lucky and we are think we are very lucky and we are think we are very lucky and we are grateful to have a very warm and grateful to have a very warm and grateful to have a very warm and welcoming community that just wants to welcoming community that just wants to welcoming community that just wants to support us we try our best we have a support us we try our best we have a support us we try our best we have a plus membership just to be clear a plus plus membership just to be clear a plus plus membership just to be clear a plus membership it's about $5 a month and membership it's about $5 a month and membership it's about $5 a month and we're we're just crossed 10,000 Plus we're we're just crossed 10,000 Plus we're we're just crossed 10,000 Plus members so we are profitable now after members so we are profitable now after members so we are profitable now after moving off of Heroku but it's still a moving off of Heroku but it's still a moving off of Heroku but it's still a tough ride because how comfortable can I tough ride because how comfortable can I tough ride because how comfortable can I be when my whole business model is be when my whole business model is be when my whole business model is dependent on the Goodwill of people who dependent on the Goodwill of people who dependent on the Goodwill of people who just love us you know and that that's just love us you know and that that's just love us you know and that that's funny I I had a couple of people on funny I I had a couple of people on funny I I had a couple of people on recently who have patreons and patreons recently who have patreons and patreons recently who have patreons and patreons and it's really just the uh have you've and it's really just the uh have you've and it's really just the uh have you've heard of the theory of a thousand true heard of the theory of a thousand true heard of the theory of a thousand true fans are you familiar with that theory fans are you familiar with that theory fans are you familiar with that theory yes Sam yes right so for folks that may yes Sam yes right so for folks that may yes Sam yes right so for folks that may not be if you can extract $100 a year not be if you can extract $100 a year not be if you can extract $100 a year from a th000 people you have $100,000 from a th000 people you have $100,000 from a th000 people you have $100,000 now you have a boutique and you know you now you have a boutique and you know you now you have a boutique and you know you have certainly more than a thousand true have certainly more than a thousand true have certainly more than a thousand true fans but you are ultimately counting on fans but you are ultimately counting on fans but you are ultimately counting on them to continue to like you and not them to continue to like you and not them to continue to like you and not pull that that $5 a month or whatever pull that that $5 a month or whatever pull that that $5 a month or whatever that that monthly uh you know that that that that monthly uh you know that that that that monthly uh you know that that monthly patreon that they are giving you monthly patreon that they are giving you monthly patreon that they are giving you in this case A Plus subscription you're in this case A Plus subscription you're in this case A Plus subscription you're also adding new features and adding new also adding new features and adding new also adding new features and adding new value like right now I'm on the value like right now I'm on the value like right now I'm on the Community page of the story graph and Community page of the story graph and Community page of the story graph and even as I'm sitting here talking to you even as I'm sitting here talking to you even as I'm sitting here talking to you someone less than a minute ago just someone less than a minute ago just someone less than a minute ago just finished reading a book and marked it finished reading a book and marked it finished reading a book and marked it and put their review up and I didn't hit and put their review up and I didn't hit and put their review up and I didn't hit refresh so now I'm doing the math and refresh so now I'm doing the math and refresh so now I'm doing the math and thinking about the connections to the

thinking about the connections to the thinking about the connections to the backend database and the work that backend database and the work that backend database and the work that you're doing in real time and thinking you're doing in real time and thinking you're doing in real time and thinking to myself wow the optimization work to myself wow the optimization work to myself wow the optimization work you're going to need to do to make this you're going to need to do to make this you're going to need to do to make this as good an experience as possible but as good an experience as possible but as good an experience as possible but also as cheap as possible to run is also as cheap as possible to run is also as cheap as possible to run is really challenging it's been a huge really challenging it's been a huge really challenging it's been a huge challenge the biggest challenge we've challenge the biggest challenge we've challenge the biggest challenge we've had over this holiday season which we had over this holiday season which we had over this holiday season which we get most of our new users during the get most of our new users during the get most of our new users during the holiday season cuz everybody's ready for holiday season cuz everybody's ready for holiday season cuz everybody's ready for January 1st they have there like people January 1st they have there like people January 1st they have there like people want to join the gym for the New Year's want to join the gym for the New Year's want to join the gym for the New Year's resolutions people want to read more resolutions people want to read more resolutions people want to read more books and everybody comes to stereograph books and everybody comes to stereograph books and everybody comes to stereograph it's the best place to help find the it's the best place to help find the it's the best place to help find the next book and help track your reads so next book and help track your reads so next book and help track your reads so we found that our daily users have more we found that our daily users have more we found that our daily users have more than doubled like almost overnight and than doubled like almost overnight and than doubled like almost overnight and the first thing people want to do when the first thing people want to do when the first thing people want to do when they come on a story graph is import they come on a story graph is import they come on a story graph is import their Goodreads file so just this their Goodreads file so just this their Goodreads file so just this holiday season we've received about holiday season we've received about holiday season we've received about 100,000 Goodreads import files and on 100,000 Goodreads import files and on 100,000 Goodreads import files and on average each file has about a thousand average each file has about a thousand average each file has about a thousand books between the books that they've books between the books that they've books between the books that they've read or books that they want to read so read or books that they want to read so read or books that they want to read so if I'm looking at 100,000 files and each if I'm looking at 100,000 files and each if I'm looking at 100,000 files and each file has a th000 books so now we're file has a th000 books so now we're file has a th000 books so now we're looking at 100 million database inserts looking at 100 million database inserts looking at 100 million database inserts but no it's more than that because each but no it's more than that because each but no it's more than that because each book has about 10 different attributes book has about 10 different attributes book has about 10 different attributes what was your review for the book when what was your review for the book when what was your review for the book when did you add the book to the list what did you add the book to the list what did you add the book to the list what was your star rating did you add any was your star rating did you add any was your star rating did you add any tags to it so there's on the order of a tags to it so there's on the order of a tags to it so there's on the order of a billion inserts that we need to do to billion inserts that we need to do to billion inserts that we need to do to satisfy this 100,000 uploads that we've satisfy this 100,000 uploads that we've satisfy this 100,000 uploads that we've received and what we found is that doing received and what we found is that doing received and what we found is that doing all those inserts while the app is all those inserts while the app is all those inserts while the app is handling more traffic than it ever has handling more traffic than it ever has handling more traffic than it ever has in history in our history it just can't in history in our history it just can't in history in our history it just can't handle it and we have outages and it's handle it and we have outages and it's handle it and we have outages and it's been a huge struggle where I have to been a huge struggle where I have to been a huge struggle where I have to balance do I want the app to be up or do balance do I want the app to be up or do balance do I want the app to be up or do I want people to get their good weeds

I want people to get their good weeds I want people to get their good weeds Imports so um I have a short-term Imports so um I have a short-term Imports so um I have a short-term solution and I have a long-term solution solution and I have a long-term solution solution and I have a long-term solution and My Hope Is by the time this episode and My Hope Is by the time this episode and My Hope Is by the time this episode is out my short-term solution will have is out my short-term solution will have is out my short-term solution will have been well pasted implemented and the been well pasted implemented and the been well pasted implemented and the long-term solution is on the way that's long-term solution is on the way that's long-term solution is on the way that's such a classic scaling problem it really such a classic scaling problem it really such a classic scaling problem it really reminds me of a situation I had about reminds me of a situation I had about reminds me of a situation I had about almost 30 years ago almost 30 years ago almost 30 years ago where I worked at a place called 800.com where I worked at a place called 800.com where I worked at a place called 800.com 800.com and they got bought by um 800.com and they got bought by um 800.com and they got bought by um overstock.com and went off into the overstock.com and went off into the overstock.com and went off into the world but this is pre- Amazon okay and world but this is pre- Amazon okay and world but this is pre- Amazon okay and we had a highly optimized product we had a highly optimized product we had a highly optimized product database so you would look at products database so you would look at products database so you would look at products and categories and we had a tree View and categories and we had a tree View and categories and we had a tree View and 99% of the people just spent the and 99% of the people just spent the and 99% of the people just spent the time browsing and then one of the time browsing and then one of the time browsing and then one of the business people had the bright idea to business people had the bright idea to business people had the bright idea to give away three DVDs for a dollar so give away three DVDs for a dollar so give away three DVDs for a dollar so then the traffic pattern on the site then the traffic pattern on the site then the traffic pattern on the site changed and it wasn't 99% of the people changed and it wasn't 99% of the people changed and it wasn't 99% of the people browsing it was 99% of the people trying browsing it was 99% of the people trying browsing it was 99% of the people trying to get out of the shopping cart and to get out of the shopping cart and to get out of the shopping cart and that's a right that's right heavy right that's a right that's right heavy right that's a right that's right heavy right I can optimize the product database for I can optimize the product database for I can optimize the product database for reads I can cash everything but then reads I can cash everything but then reads I can cash everything but then suddenly this idea that 1% of our suddenly this idea that 1% of our suddenly this idea that 1% of our traffic is now 99% of our traffic traffic is now 99% of our traffic traffic is now 99% of our traffic changed and we had to move and in those changed and we had to move and in those changed and we had to move and in those days was it was physical today would be days was it was physical today would be days was it was physical today would be changing a kubernetes node and that can changing a kubernetes node and that can changing a kubernetes node and that can be extremely challenging and I love that be extremely challenging and I love that be extremely challenging and I love that it's called the story graph because it's it's called the story graph because it's it's called the story graph because it's like our social Gra graph which is like our social Gra graph which is like our social Gra graph which is incredibly complicated yes you want incredibly complicated yes you want incredibly complicated yes you want those connections but those connections those connections but those connections those connections but those connections are going to cost you rob CPU Cycles yes are going to cost you rob CPU Cycles yes are going to cost you rob CPU Cycles yes CPU Cycles brain cycles that I'm CPU Cycles brain cycles that I'm CPU Cycles brain cycles that I'm operating on 3 hours of sleep right now operating on 3 hours of sleep right now operating on 3 hours of sleep right now we had two outages just this morning and

we had two outages just this morning and we had two outages just this morning and none of the outages were related to the none of the outages were related to the none of the outages were related to the database and one of the outages wasn't database and one of the outages wasn't database and one of the outages wasn't even one of our providers lost internet even one of our providers lost internet even one of our providers lost internet access so we just we're we're down and access so we just we're we're down and access so we just we're we're down and we couldn't do anything about it yeah we couldn't do anything about it yeah we couldn't do anything about it yeah it's been a struggle but I feel like it's been a struggle but I feel like it's been a struggle but I feel like it's a solved problem and I feel like it's a solved problem and I feel like it's a solved problem and I feel like we're working towards solving the we're working towards solving the we're working towards solving the problem and actually when we were on problem and actually when we were on problem and actually when we were on Heroku just to think about how far we've Heroku just to think about how far we've Heroku just to think about how far we've come in solving similar problems cuz come in solving similar problems cuz come in solving similar problems cuz when we were on Heroku we still had when we were on Heroku we still had when we were on Heroku we still had outages and I remember I thought about outages and I remember I thought about outages and I remember I thought about one of your talks Scott and I remember one of your talks Scott and I remember one of your talks Scott and I remember you said yeah back in my you said yeah back in my you said yeah back in my day is that your Scott impression yeah day is that your Scott impression yeah day is that your Scott impression yeah it is it is it is it back in my day I my whole job was was it back in my day I my whole job was was it back in my day I my whole job was was to do this this this and this and now to do this this this and this and now to do this this this and this and now it's just a slider on Heroku I just have it's just a slider on Heroku I just have it's just a slider on Heroku I just have a slider I just move it up and I have a slider I just move it up and I have a slider I just move it up and I have more servers well Scott I called Nadia I more servers well Scott I called Nadia I more servers well Scott I called Nadia I woke her up at 3:00 in the morning her woke her up at 3:00 in the morning her woke her up at 3:00 in the morning her time because it was an outage and I said time because it was an outage and I said time because it was an outage and I said I did what Scott said I moved the slider I did what Scott said I moved the slider I did what Scott said I moved the slider all the way to the right and we're still all the way to the right and we're still all the way to the right and we're still down what are we do and we had we worked down what are we do and we had we worked down what are we do and we had we worked on that for a few hours so I assume it on that for a few hours so I assume it on that for a few hours so I assume it wasn't capacity it was something else it wasn't capacity it was something else it wasn't capacity it was something else it was something else yeah it's always was something else yeah it's always was something else yeah it's always something else it's always DNS as something else it's always DNS as something else it's always DNS as Abraham Lincoln used to say Abraham Lincoln used to say Abraham Lincoln used to say indeed want to welcome partner hero the indeed want to welcome partner hero the indeed want to welcome partner hero the Hanselman at sponsor family they provide Hanselman at sponsor family they provide Hanselman at sponsor family they provide customer service Outsourcing that's customer service Outsourcing that's customer service Outsourcing that's built for the needs of scaling and high built for the needs of scaling and high built for the needs of scaling and high growth startups partner hero offers growth startups partner hero offers growth startups partner hero offers flexible terms f onboarding and the flexible terms f onboarding and the flexible terms f onboarding and the ability to scale teams quickly which is ability to scale teams quickly which is ability to scale teams quickly which is perfect for fast growing perfect for fast growing perfect for fast growing businesses in my experience Outsourcing businesses in my experience Outsourcing businesses in my experience Outsourcing tends to have a bad reputation as being tends to have a bad reputation as being tends to have a bad reputation as being exploitative and low quality but partner exploitative and low quality but partner exploitative and low quality but partner Heroes values-based approach will raise Heroes values-based approach will raise Heroes values-based approach will raise the bar for the Outsourcing industry by

the bar for the Outsourcing industry by the bar for the Outsourcing industry by investing in employee empowerment and investing in employee empowerment and investing in employee empowerment and focusing on Career growth they pay above focusing on Career growth they pay above focusing on Career growth they pay above Market salaries and they maintain a Market salaries and they maintain a Market salaries and they maintain a focus on quality and performance they focus on quality and performance they focus on quality and performance they also offer these flexible terms for you also offer these flexible terms for you also offer these flexible terms for you to scale quickly which is perfect for to scale quickly which is perfect for to scale quickly which is perfect for startups they bake quality Assurance startups they bake quality Assurance startups they bake quality Assurance into every program and they have offices into every program and they have offices into every program and they have offices around the world so they can provide a around the world so they can provide a around the world so they can provide a truly Global coverage that means onshore truly Global coverage that means onshore truly Global coverage that means onshore Nearshore and offshore Outsourcing has Nearshore and offshore Outsourcing has Nearshore and offshore Outsourcing has long been available to Big Enterprise long been available to Big Enterprise long been available to Big Enterprise businesses but partner here was businesses but partner here was businesses but partner here was challenging the business as usual and challenging the business as usual and challenging the business as usual and bringing those benefits to startups bringing those benefits to startups bringing those benefits to startups short flexible contracts Fast rampup short flexible contracts Fast rampup short flexible contracts Fast rampup Times values integrity and expertise if Times values integrity and expertise if Times values integrity and expertise if you're ready to bring in outside you're ready to bring in outside you're ready to bring in outside customer support help for your startup customer support help for your startup customer support help for your startup that feels like it's a part of your that feels like it's a part of your that feels like it's a part of your existing team check out partner hero existing team check out partner hero existing team check out partner hero head on over to partner hero.com Hansel head on over to partner hero.com Hansel head on over to partner hero.com Hansel minutes you can book a free consultation minutes you can book a free consultation minutes you can book a free consultation with their Solutions team mention you with their Solutions team mention you with their Solutions team mention you heard about partner hero from Hansel heard about partner hero from Hansel heard about partner hero from Hansel minutes and the wave the setup fee so minutes and the wave the setup fee so minutes and the wave the setup fee so one of the other things that's going to one of the other things that's going to one of the other things that's going to be great is as you build this graph you be great is as you build this graph you be great is as you build this graph you build this story graph is obviously the build this story graph is obviously the build this story graph is obviously the next thing is AI and you're not the CTO next thing is AI and you're not the CTO next thing is AI and you're not the CTO you're the chief AI officer which I know you're the chief AI officer which I know you're the chief AI officer which I know means that you love and you care about means that you love and you care about means that you love and you care about AI but I know that if you're running AI but I know that if you're running AI but I know that if you're running your stuff on the metal you're your stuff on the metal you're your stuff on the metal you're definitely not just going to send a definitely not just going to send a definitely not just going to send a bunch of text to chat GPT because that's bunch of text to chat GPT because that's bunch of text to chat GPT because that's not how you want to do things it seems not how you want to do things it seems not how you want to do things it seems like every startup is doing that though like every startup is doing that though like every startup is doing that though they're just sending huge amounts of they're just sending huge amounts of they're just sending huge amounts of text very expensively off to a third text very expensively off to a third text very expensively off to a third party and hoping magic pops out of a party and hoping magic pops out of a party and hoping magic pops out of a very large language model because it's very large language model because it's very large language model because it's easy it's easier to implement something easy it's easier to implement something easy it's easier to implement something like that if I were not the big privacy

like that if I were not the big privacy like that if I were not the big privacy guy that I am I'm the guy who runs Linux guy that I am I'm the guy who runs Linux guy that I am I'm the guy who runs Linux on Hall of his machines I got rid of my on Hall of his machines I got rid of my on Hall of his machines I got rid of my iPhone for a Google pixel with graphine iPhone for a Google pixel with graphine iPhone for a Google pixel with graphine OS I use proton b instead of Gmail and OS I use proton b instead of Gmail and OS I use proton b instead of Gmail and I'm I feel very strongly in the privacy I'm I feel very strongly in the privacy I'm I feel very strongly in the privacy of our users so I would never do that of our users so I would never do that of our users so I would never do that but during my limited tests using my own but during my limited tests using my own but during my limited tests using my own data it was much easier if I'm willing data it was much easier if I'm willing data it was much easier if I'm willing to give my data to someone else yeah you to give my data to someone else yeah you to give my data to someone else yeah you just got to be willing to pay so like I just got to be willing to pay so like I just got to be willing to pay so like I said we have millions of people hitting said we have millions of people hitting said we have millions of people hitting book pages and as it is right now for book pages and as it is right now for book pages and as it is right now for every book page hit that we have on our every book page hit that we have on our every book page hit that we have on our site it's hitting a large language model site it's hitting a large language model site it's hitting a large language model that I'm hosting locally so if that's that I'm hosting locally so if that's that I'm hosting locally so if that's millions of hits I don't want to pay for millions of hits I don't want to pay for millions of hits I don't want to pay for that number one I don't want to give up that number one I don't want to give up that number one I don't want to give up that data number two and I don't want to that data number two and I don't want to that data number two and I don't want to lose our customers trust because if we lose our customers trust because if we lose our customers trust because if we are literally surviving if the only are literally surviving if the only are literally surviving if the only reason we're profitable is because our reason we're profitable is because our reason we're profitable is because our users like and trust us I can't users like and trust us I can't users like and trust us I can't jeopardize that by taking the easy path jeopardize that by taking the easy path jeopardize that by taking the easy path to a new feature so that's definitely to a new feature so that's definitely to a new feature so that's definitely not us you know I feel like that's not us you know I feel like that's not us you know I feel like that's something that I think we're going to something that I think we're going to something that I think we're going to see more people putting on their see more people putting on their see more people putting on their homepage like right now I can go to the homepage like right now I can go to the homepage like right now I can go to the story gra.com and I could see get smart story gra.com and I could see get smart story gra.com and I could see get smart personalized recommendations but it personalized recommendations but it personalized recommendations but it doesn't call out where the AI is and I doesn't call out where the AI is and I doesn't call out where the AI is and I think that there's value in saying that think that there's value in saying that think that there's value in saying that it's local and that it's custom and it's it's local and that it's custom and it's it's local and that it's custom and it's trained and it's it can both give you trained and it's it can both give you trained and it's it can both give you value and be private it's kind of like value and be private it's kind of like value and be private it's kind of like iect you're probably a home assistant iect you're probably a home assistant iect you're probably a home assistant person like you don't want to turn a person like you don't want to turn a person like you don't want to turn a light off and talk to Alexa and have it light off and talk to Alexa and have it light off and talk to Alexa and have it go all the way across the universe and go all the way across the universe and go all the way across the universe and back to turn a light off if it can stay back to turn a light off if it can stay back to turn a light off if it can stay inside of your inonet the same thing inside of your inonet the same thing inside of your inonet the same thing applies in this context there's no applies in this context there's no applies in this context there's no reason to send story graph people's reason to send story graph people's reason to send story graph people's information to a large language model information to a large language model information to a large language model when you can have your perfectly good

when you can have your perfectly good when you can have your perfectly good private large language model locally yes private large language model locally yes private large language model locally yes I think that is the path forward I'm I think that is the path forward I'm I think that is the path forward I'm waiting for other people to see that waiting for other people to see that waiting for other people to see that that is the path forward but I'm not that is the path forward but I'm not that is the path forward but I'm not going to wait for that before we going to wait for that before we going to wait for that before we Implement what I think is best for our Implement what I think is best for our Implement what I think is best for our users Nadia gave a great talk a few users Nadia gave a great talk a few users Nadia gave a great talk a few months ago about how to get to one months ago about how to get to one months ago about how to get to one million users with the one woman Dev and million users with the one woman Dev and million users with the one woman Dev and we have over two million users now but we have over two million users now but we have over two million users now but the three mantras she had were keep cost the three mantras she had were keep cost the three mantras she had were keep cost low keep the teex simple with Ruby on low keep the teex simple with Ruby on low keep the teex simple with Ruby on Rails and keep talking to customers and Rails and keep talking to customers and Rails and keep talking to customers and this is something that we've heard from this is something that we've heard from this is something that we've heard from our customers over and over why was I our customers over and over why was I our customers over and over why was I recommended this book why would this recommended this book why would this recommended this book why would this book be good for me I'm looking at the book be good for me I'm looking at the book be good for me I'm looking at the blurb the book description I just I just blurb the book description I just I just blurb the book description I just I just don't see it and the large language don't see it and the large language don't see it and the large language model solv that and it solves it for us model solv that and it solves it for us model solv that and it solves it for us in a way that I think works really well in a way that I think works really well in a way that I think works really well without having to compromise anybody's without having to compromise anybody's without having to compromise anybody's privacy you know they call that at least privacy you know they call that at least privacy you know they call that at least in Microsoft where I work they call that in Microsoft where I work they call that in Microsoft where I work they call that responsible AI if you suggest something responsible AI if you suggest something responsible AI if you suggest something say why yes and I think it just makes say why yes and I think it just makes say why yes and I think it just makes people feel better and it gets you out people feel better and it gets you out people feel better and it gets you out of the uncanny valley of creepiness of the uncanny valley of creepiness of the uncanny valley of creepiness because you know I think Netflix does a because you know I think Netflix does a because you know I think Netflix does a good job at this you know here's a good job at this you know here's a good job at this you know here's a science fiction movie because you liked science fiction movie because you liked science fiction movie because you liked yes this Schwarzenegger science fiction yes this Schwarzenegger science fiction yes this Schwarzenegger science fiction movie where goes to Mars you're going to movie where goes to Mars you're going to movie where goes to Mars you're going to like this movie where somebody else goes like this movie where somebody else goes like this movie where somebody else goes to Jupiter that that just makes sense to to Jupiter that that just makes sense to to Jupiter that that just makes sense to me but just having the creep factor of me but just having the creep factor of me but just having the creep factor of AI recommending stuff because of this AI recommending stuff because of this AI recommending stuff because of this black box decided to tell you that you black box decided to tell you that you black box decided to tell you that you should read this book there's a lot of should read this book there's a lot of should read this book there's a lot of value in in the why I definitely agree value in in the why I definitely agree value in in the why I definitely agree with that and we do have in a footnote with that and we do have in a footnote with that and we do have in a footnote because we weren't sure exactly how the because we weren't sure exactly how the because we weren't sure exactly how the community was going to react to the

community was going to react to the community was going to react to the large language model that we implemented large language model that we implemented large language model that we implemented recently and we do have a footnote if recently and we do have a footnote if recently and we do have a footnote if you click on like learn more or you click on like learn more or you click on like learn more or something where it says yes this AI is something where it says yes this AI is something where it says yes this AI is local we're not sending your data local we're not sending your data local we're not sending your data anywhere your is never leaving story anywhere your is never leaving story anywhere your is never leaving story graph servers and it's still scary for graph servers and it's still scary for graph servers and it's still scary for some people it's a small percentage of some people it's a small percentage of some people it's a small percentage of our of our users who have expressed our of our users who have expressed our of our users who have expressed unhappiness about it and we need to unhappiness about it and we need to unhappiness about it and we need to balance that with the vast majority of balance that with the vast majority of balance that with the vast majority of the people who are very excited for the the people who are very excited for the the people who are very excited for the feature but I still can't leave those feature but I still can't leave those feature but I still can't leave those other users behind so we as as part of other users behind so we as as part of other users behind so we as as part of you said responsible AI before we enable you said responsible AI before we enable you said responsible AI before we enable it there's a popup that says this is it there's a popup that says this is it there's a popup that says this is what the feature looks like this is what what the feature looks like this is what what the feature looks like this is what the feature is going to to do do you the feature is going to to do do you the feature is going to to do do you want this if you say no you'll never be want this if you say no you'll never be want this if you say no you'll never be asked that question again you will never asked that question again you will never asked that question again you will never see it again and I see screenshots of see it again and I see screenshots of see it again and I see screenshots of people on X or on Twitter or on people on X or on Twitter or on people on X or on Twitter or on Instagram and I see most of the people Instagram and I see most of the people Instagram and I see most of the people have it enabled but some people don't have it enabled but some people don't have it enabled but some people don't and I think that's great because we are and I think that's great because we are and I think that's great because we are able to tailor your experience to what able to tailor your experience to what able to tailor your experience to what you're looking for yeah that is so you're looking for yeah that is so you're looking for yeah that is so important to be able to opt in and opt important to be able to opt in and opt important to be able to opt in and opt out of this kind of stuff yes so when I out of this kind of stuff yes so when I out of this kind of stuff yes so when I filled out of course uh you know there's filled out of course uh you know there's filled out of course uh you know there's a survey there's an opt-in survey on the a survey there's an opt-in survey on the a survey there's an opt-in survey on the story graph where I put in the things I story graph where I put in the things I story graph where I put in the things I care about and I thought it was really care about and I thought it was really care about and I thought it was really cool it's the first time I've ever seen cool it's the first time I've ever seen cool it's the first time I've ever seen a book recommendation site actually say a book recommendation site actually say a book recommendation site actually say well what turns you off and I was like well what turns you off and I was like well what turns you off and I was like Wow flat characters and boring bad Wow flat characters and boring bad Wow flat characters and boring bad writing and misspellings and like all writing and misspellings and like all writing and misspellings and like all that kind of stuff and uh so I fill all that kind of stuff and uh so I fill all that kind of stuff and uh so I fill all this out right and what does it say this out right and what does it say this out right and what does it say based on my recent reads Octavia Butler based on my recent reads Octavia Butler based on my recent reads Octavia Butler and it's like you know me you already and it's like you know me you already and it's like you know me you already you know what I mean like right there

you know what I mean like right there you know what I mean like right there like book number two it recommended like book number two it recommended like book number two it recommended already is uh a book that I would read already is uh a book that I would read already is uh a book that I would read then it recommends The Shining Girls by then it recommends The Shining Girls by then it recommends The Shining Girls by Lauren buas who I literally is a friend Lauren buas who I literally is a friend Lauren buas who I literally is a friend of mine and I just hung out with her in of mine and I just hung out with her in of mine and I just hung out with her in person so your AI model I'm just like person so your AI model I'm just like person so your AI model I'm just like going through it I'm like yeah oh yeah going through it I'm like yeah oh yeah going through it I'm like yeah oh yeah yeah that one there too you know that yeah that one there too you know that yeah that one there too you know that that's so cool yeah this is my life's that's so cool yeah this is my life's that's so cool yeah this is my life's work right now and I'm I'm loving it I'm work right now and I'm I'm loving it I'm work right now and I'm I'm loving it I'm falling asleep with the laptop in bed falling asleep with the laptop in bed falling asleep with the laptop in bed happy that I I wake up and I get to see happy that I I wake up and I get to see happy that I I wake up and I get to see what what the processes that I was what what the processes that I was what what the processes that I was running overnight I wake up at 3: in the running overnight I wake up at 3: in the running overnight I wake up at 3: in the morning just to check on how they're morning just to check on how they're morning just to check on how they're doing because it's I'm really loving doing because it's I'm really loving doing because it's I'm really loving what I'm doing which is why these latest what I'm doing which is why these latest what I'm doing which is why these latest outages during our peak time it feels outages during our peak time it feels outages during our peak time it feels like first for me and for us story it like first for me and for us story it like first for me and for us story it feels like the Super Bowl like you can feels like the Super Bowl like you can feels like the Super Bowl like you can see it coming there's this huge event see it coming there's this huge event see it coming there's this huge event everybody's going to be on your app you everybody's going to be on your app you everybody's going to be on your app you make a plan you prepare and when make a plan you prepare and when make a plan you prepare and when everybody shows up the power goes out everybody shows up the power goes out everybody shows up the power goes out and I know that actually happened about and I know that actually happened about and I know that actually happened about a decade ago in the Super Bowl and as a a decade ago in the Super Bowl and as a a decade ago in the Super Bowl and as a fan I remember watching it feeling bad fan I remember watching it feeling bad fan I remember watching it feeling bad for the workers feeling like oh man this for the workers feeling like oh man this for the workers feeling like oh man this must suck for them they're probably must suck for them they're probably must suck for them they're probably going crazy right now and I didn't care going crazy right now and I didn't care going crazy right now and I didn't care that the Super Bowl was delayed for 30 that the Super Bowl was delayed for 30 that the Super Bowl was delayed for 30 minutes but I'm sure for them this was minutes but I'm sure for them this was minutes but I'm sure for them this was probably the worst day of their probably the worst day of their probably the worst day of their professional lives and that's how I felt professional lives and that's how I felt professional lives and that's how I felt over the last week this has been the over the last week this has been the over the last week this has been the worst week the worst time of my worst week the worst time of my worst week the worst time of my professional life and I'm just I'm professional life and I'm just I'm professional life and I'm just I'm getting through it and I'm making sure getting through it and I'm making sure getting through it and I'm making sure it does not happen again we're I I I it does not happen again we're I I I it does not happen again we're I I I want to bring a little big dad energy

want to bring a little big dad energy want to bring a little big dad energy here if I may for just a second though here if I may for just a second though here if I may for just a second though and I hope that you are giving yourself and I hope that you are giving yourself and I hope that you are giving yourself a little grace that while it may feel a little grace that while it may feel a little grace that while it may feel like it's the worst thing ever the like it's the worst thing ever the like it's the worst thing ever the site's up right now it's great you've site's up right now it's great you've site's up right now it's great you've doubled your user base it's working doubled your user base it's working doubled your user base it's working there will be outages you know what I there will be outages you know what I there will be outages you know what I mean like you're not going to hit 59 mean like you're not going to hit 59 mean like you're not going to hit 59 this year you and Nadia should Pat this year you and Nadia should Pat this year you and Nadia should Pat yourselves on the back because two yourselves on the back because two yourselves on the back because two people are running two million user base people are running two million user base people are running two million user base application that's that's amazing you application that's that's amazing you application that's that's amazing you know like Kudos do you both through your know like Kudos do you both through your know like Kudos do you both through your work give yourself a little Grace my work give yourself a little Grace my work give yourself a little Grace my friend thank you Scott that that means a friend thank you Scott that that means a friend thank you Scott that that means a lot yeah so what kind of ideas are you lot yeah so what kind of ideas are you lot yeah so what kind of ideas are you going to come up with for the future going to come up with for the future going to come up with for the future because you have your two people she's because you have your two people she's because you have your two people she's coding you're you're the SRE effectively coding you're you're the SRE effectively coding you're you're the SRE effectively the site reliability engineer and the site reliability engineer and the site reliability engineer and infrastructure how do you manage the infrastructure how do you manage the infrastructure how do you manage the keeping the car running while keeping the car running while keeping the car running while simultaneously changing the engine and simultaneously changing the engine and simultaneously changing the engine and tires while it's on the road Ron rails tires while it's on the road Ron rails tires while it's on the road Ron rails is great for that Nadia is the sole is great for that Nadia is the sole is great for that Nadia is the sole developer but she's also the sole developer but she's also the sole developer but she's also the sole Android developer she's the sole web Android developer she's the sole web Android developer she's the sole web developer she's the sole Apple developer developer she's the sole Apple developer developer she's the sole Apple developer Apple app developer and I feel like ruon Apple app developer and I feel like ruon Apple app developer and I feel like ruon rails makes it easy for us to react rails makes it easy for us to react rails makes it easy for us to react quickly to create new features to push quickly to create new features to push quickly to create new features to push once and it's live everywhere and we once and it's live everywhere and we once and it's live everywhere and we don't have to spend much time thinking don't have to spend much time thinking don't have to spend much time thinking about what to work on next because it about what to work on next because it about what to work on next because it comes back to the other Mantra that comes back to the other Mantra that comes back to the other Mantra that Nadia had in her talk we keep talking to Nadia had in her talk we keep talking to Nadia had in her talk we keep talking to customers the customers are telling us customers the customers are telling us customers the customers are telling us exactly what they want they're giving us exactly what they want they're giving us exactly what they want they're giving us the road map and we have we have a road the road map and we have we have a road the road map and we have we have a road map and they're voting up and down but map and they're voting up and down but map and they're voting up and down but it's very clear what our next moves are it's very clear what our next moves are it's very clear what our next moves are going to be and there's no ambiguity for

going to be and there's no ambiguity for going to be and there's no ambiguity for us on that it's more of how do we us on that it's more of how do we us on that it's more of how do we implement it in a way that brings the implement it in a way that brings the implement it in a way that brings the user joy and maybe in a way that they user joy and maybe in a way that they user joy and maybe in a way that they didn't think it would so our latest didn't think it would so our latest didn't think it would so our latest endof year wrap-up we call it like story endof year wrap-up we call it like story endof year wrap-up we call it like story graph wrapped everyone loves seeing the graph wrapped everyone loves seeing the graph wrapped everyone loves seeing the graphs everyone loves the specific like graphs everyone loves the specific like graphs everyone loves the specific like mood graph that we have that charts your mood graph that we have that charts your mood graph that we have that charts your reads throughout the year and has a reads throughout the year and has a reads throughout the year and has a lined graph showing like darker moods lined graph showing like darker moods lined graph showing like darker moods pull the line down and make it red and pull the line down and make it red and pull the line down and make it red and happier moods move the line up and make happier moods move the line up and make happier moods move the line up and make it green and people can see what their it green and people can see what their it green and people can see what their moods were like it was interesting moods were like it was interesting moods were like it was interesting people said it it's like a a map of people said it it's like a a map of people said it it's like a a map of their mental health throughout the year their mental health throughout the year their mental health throughout the year because it tells them how they how they because it tells them how they how they because it tells them how they how they felt the sonographs that was really felt the sonographs that was really felt the sonographs that was really interesting and we have all these cool interesting and we have all these cool interesting and we have all these cool and exciting graphs but people were and exciting graphs but people were and exciting graphs but people were struggling last year to share them and struggling last year to share them and struggling last year to share them and so this year we have an easy push button so this year we have an easy push button so this year we have an easy push button create an image to share to social media create an image to share to social media create an image to share to social media and we came up with a little fun graphic and we came up with a little fun graphic and we came up with a little fun graphic actually Saron designed a graphic for us actually Saron designed a graphic for us actually Saron designed a graphic for us and I'm very happy to to have her help and I'm very happy to to have her help and I'm very happy to to have her help and support on that and I think that was and support on that and I think that was and support on that and I think that was one of the main drivers behind the huge one of the main drivers behind the huge one of the main drivers behind the huge amount of traffic the huge popularity we amount of traffic the huge popularity we amount of traffic the huge popularity we had on January 1st people knew that this had on January 1st people knew that this had on January 1st people knew that this was coming and we gave them a huge was coming and we gave them a huge was coming and we gave them a huge surprise that they weren't expecting but surprise that they weren't expecting but surprise that they weren't expecting but because we're talking to our customers because we're talking to our customers because we're talking to our customers and we're listening it wasn't a huge and we're listening it wasn't a huge and we're listening it wasn't a huge leap for us to do these type of things I leap for us to do these type of things I leap for us to do these type of things I like the way that you're sprinkling AI like the way that you're sprinkling AI like the way that you're sprinkling AI around and you're sprinkling new around and you're sprinkling new around and you're sprinkling new features like one of the features that features like one of the features that features like one of the features that I'm a fan of on the book Details page is I'm a fan of on the book Details page is I'm a fan of on the book Details page is called story graph preview which is called story graph preview which is called story graph preview which is effectively an AI book jacket you know effectively an AI book jacket you know effectively an AI book jacket you know you kind of like you're looking at the you kind of like you're looking at the you kind of like you're looking at the jacket of the book and you're trying to jacket of the book and you're trying to jacket of the book and you're trying to figure out if this is a good idea it'll

figure out if this is a good idea it'll figure out if this is a good idea it'll actually say well this is a good fit for actually say well this is a good fit for actually say well this is a good fit for people who are interested in these kinds people who are interested in these kinds people who are interested in these kinds of things and those kind of things and of things and those kind of things and of things and those kind of things and then for plus users you actually have a then for plus users you actually have a then for plus users you actually have a personalized one because as the more I personalized one because as the more I personalized one because as the more I read the more you know about me and read the more you know about me and read the more you know about me and again with a local model you're starting again with a local model you're starting again with a local model you're starting to look at my reading history and say we to look at my reading history and say we to look at my reading history and say we think you'll like this because of that think you'll like this because of that think you'll like this because of that thing and it's not one of those in thing and it's not one of those in thing and it's not one of those in yourface things like you could have made yourface things like you could have made yourface things like you could have made it a whole separate page you made it a a it a whole separate page you made it a a it a whole separate page you made it a a natural part of the The Details page you natural part of the The Details page you natural part of the The Details page you know what I mean it's just kind of there know what I mean it's just kind of there know what I mean it's just kind of there and it just made The Details page better and it just made The Details page better and it just made The Details page better and it makes me more likely to click add and it makes me more likely to click add and it makes me more likely to click add to up next and then read a book yes and to up next and then read a book yes and to up next and then read a book yes and since that feature I found and our users since that feature I found and our users since that feature I found and our users through our their feedback have found through our their feedback have found through our their feedback have found that it really helps them choose their that it really helps them choose their that it really helps them choose their next book I'm not happy that it's a paid next book I'm not happy that it's a paid next book I'm not happy that it's a paid feature we made it a paid feature not to feature we made it a paid feature not to feature we made it a paid feature not to help push people towards plus but help push people towards plus but help push people towards plus but because it's expensive and I I just at because it's expensive and I I just at because it's expensive and I I just at the time we released it I didn't know the time we released it I didn't know the time we released it I didn't know how I can serve millions of users that how I can serve millions of users that how I can serve millions of users that type of personalized response but since type of personalized response but since type of personalized response but since then I've figured it out and yeah in the then I've figured it out and yeah in the then I've figured it out and yeah in the next few months we're going to be next few months we're going to be next few months we're going to be transitioning the plus plan to more of a transitioning the plus plan to more of a transitioning the plus plan to more of a stats plan and features like this AI stats plan and features like this AI stats plan and features like this AI personalized preview will be part of the personalized preview will be part of the personalized preview will be part of the free plan so that's going to be the next free plan so that's going to be the next free plan so that's going to be the next technical hurdle for me to handle technical hurdle for me to handle technical hurdle for me to handle there's another feature I wanted to call there's another feature I wanted to call there's another feature I wanted to call out that I thought was really cool out that I thought was really cool out that I thought was really cool because I'd never seen it before was I because I'd never seen it before was I because I'd never seen it before was I want you to explain the difference want you to explain the difference want you to explain the difference between a buddy read and a read along between a buddy read and a read along between a buddy read and a read along yes because I have a lot of followers on yes because I have a lot of followers on yes because I have a lot of followers on good read like like hundreds maybe good read like like hundreds maybe good read like like hundreds maybe thousands because you know people know thousands because you know people know thousands because you know people know you from around the way and then they you from around the way and then they you from around the way and then they they start to find you on other

they start to find you on other they start to find you on other platforms so then it's it's creepy platforms so then it's it's creepy platforms so then it's it's creepy because people are watching me read because people are watching me read because people are watching me read stuff but I'm like hey well maybe I stuff but I'm like hey well maybe I stuff but I'm like hey well maybe I could go to story graph and we could could go to story graph and we could could go to story graph and we could have like a read along we'll all read have like a read along we'll all read have like a read along we'll all read together like a book club yes so first together like a book club yes so first together like a book club yes so first we will be releasing book clubs it was we will be releasing book clubs it was we will be releasing book clubs it was supposed to be out for January 1st but supposed to be out for January 1st but supposed to be out for January 1st but outages got the better of us that will outages got the better of us that will outages got the better of us that will be coming out probably within the next be coming out probably within the next be coming out probably within the next week or two but read alongs specifically week or two but read alongs specifically week or two but read alongs specifically are for large groups of people where you are for large groups of people where you are for large groups of people where you want to have checkpoints where maybe at want to have checkpoints where maybe at want to have checkpoints where maybe at the end of chapter one end of chapter 2 the end of chapter one end of chapter 2 the end of chapter one end of chapter 2 we want everyone to come together and we want everyone to come together and we want everyone to come together and talk about how felt about that chapter talk about how felt about that chapter talk about how felt about that chapter how they felt about part one how they how they felt about part one how they how they felt about part one how they felt about part two and it's an easier felt about part two and it's an easier felt about part two and it's an easier way for up to a thousand people to get way for up to a thousand people to get way for up to a thousand people to get together and have a more structured together and have a more structured together and have a more structured conversation a buddy read is it's more conversation a buddy read is it's more conversation a buddy read is it's more personal it's more intimate and with the personal it's more intimate and with the personal it's more intimate and with the Buddy read there's no structure when you Buddy read there's no structure when you Buddy read there's no structure when you are reading your book let's say you're are reading your book let's say you're are reading your book let's say you're 23% in in the book and you write a 23% in in the book and you write a 23% in in the book and you write a comment that comment will be tagged with comment that comment will be tagged with comment that comment will be tagged with 23% and no one in your buddy read can 23% and no one in your buddy read can 23% and no one in your buddy read can see that comment or they can see it but see that comment or they can see it but see that comment or they can see it but it'll be locked they can't can't read it'll be locked they can't can't read it'll be locked they can't can't read that comment until they've reached 23% that comment until they've reached 23% that comment until they've reached 23% in the book so there are no spoilers oh in the book so there are no spoilers oh in the book so there are no spoilers oh it's a no spoiler okay cuz I'm always it's a no spoiler okay cuz I'm always it's a no spoiler okay cuz I'm always wondering because I'm always like going wondering because I'm always like going wondering because I'm always like going on on on good reads and like commenting on on on good reads and like commenting on on on good reads and like commenting about stuff but I'm like oh shoot did I about stuff but I'm like oh shoot did I about stuff but I'm like oh shoot did I just spoil the whole book because I said just spoil the whole book because I said just spoil the whole book because I said a thing exactly it's much easier to do a thing exactly it's much easier to do a thing exactly it's much easier to do things like that when you have a small things like that when you have a small things like that when you have a small more intimate group if you have a more intimate group if you have a more intimate group if you have a thousand people and there's there will thousand people and there's there will thousand people and there's there will probably be a comment on every single probably be a comment on every single probably be a comment on every single numerical percent from 1 to 100 and numerical percent from 1 to 100 and numerical percent from 1 to 100 and that's unwieldly so we gave you more that's unwieldly so we gave you more that's unwieldly so we gave you more structure on that side of things but for

structure on that side of things but for structure on that side of things but for a buddy read you can add comments give a buddy read you can add comments give a buddy read you can add comments give little likes thumbs up at any point in little likes thumbs up at any point in little likes thumbs up at any point in the book and we find that's a much more the book and we find that's a much more the book and we find that's a much more intimate way to read a book with someone intimate way to read a book with someone intimate way to read a book with someone one of your friends that is really cool one of your friends that is really cool one of your friends that is really cool you know I I know that the analogies you know I I know that the analogies you know I I know that the analogies just overwhelm me but sometimes uh it's just overwhelm me but sometimes uh it's just overwhelm me but sometimes uh it's like apple Fitness for books and I'm like apple Fitness for books and I'm like apple Fitness for books and I'm just I'm going to like challenge my just I'm going to like challenge my just I'm going to like challenge my friend to a competition we've got our friend to a competition we've got our friend to a competition we've got our reading challenges my yearly challenge reading challenges my yearly challenge reading challenges my yearly challenge I've set my my 2024 reading goal and I've set my my 2024 reading goal and I've set my my 2024 reading goal and then being able to to go and say to my then being able to to go and say to my then being able to to go and say to my friend hey you should read this along friend hey you should read this along friend hey you should read this along alongside me and let's let's go together alongside me and let's let's go together alongside me and let's let's go together does feel a very I'm closing my my does feel a very I'm closing my my does feel a very I'm closing my my circles except I'm doing it in the story circles except I'm doing it in the story circles except I'm doing it in the story graph stats yeah I found it's a lot of graph stats yeah I found it's a lot of graph stats yeah I found it's a lot of fun and I found that the main reason why fun and I found that the main reason why fun and I found that the main reason why we released these type of features uh we released these type of features uh we released these type of features uh because from the very beginning we don't because from the very beginning we don't because from the very beginning we don't want to be another social network we want to be another social network we want to be another social network we don't want to cause burnout we don't don't want to cause burnout we don't don't want to cause burnout we don't want to have gamification on your want to have gamification on your want to have gamification on your reading because it's not supposed to be reading because it's not supposed to be reading because it's not supposed to be about that but we found that reading about that but we found that reading about that but we found that reading with others will actually help you read with others will actually help you read with others will actually help you read more you might even read books that may more you might even read books that may more you might even read books that may not otherwise have picked and you end up not otherwise have picked and you end up not otherwise have picked and you end up loving it and we actually do have an AI loving it and we actually do have an AI loving it and we actually do have an AI feature that you type in everyone's name feature that you type in everyone's name feature that you type in everyone's name and it'll recommend books that it thinks and it'll recommend books that it thinks and it'll recommend books that it thinks everyone in the group will enjoy and everyone in the group will enjoy and everyone in the group will enjoy and that's one of the things that I'm that's one of the things that I'm that's one of the things that I'm excited to release with the oh wow so excited to release with the oh wow so excited to release with the oh wow so like doing an intersection of what we like doing an intersection of what we like doing an intersection of what we know about all these people who are all know about all these people who are all know about all these people who are all our friends yes here's a book we'd all our friends yes here's a book we'd all our friends yes here's a book we'd all love exactly that's going to be probably love exactly that's going to be probably love exactly that's going to be probably a center point of the book club feature a center point of the book club feature a center point of the book club feature when that comes out but you can do that when that comes out but you can do that when that comes out but you can do that now just by typing in their usernames in now just by typing in their usernames in now just by typing in their usernames in that on that page how fun is that well

that on that page how fun is that well that on that page how fun is that well that is so cool so twers startup that is so cool so twers startup that is so cool so twers startup millions of page views a day running on millions of page views a day running on millions of page views a day running on bare medal servers deployed with Cloud bare medal servers deployed with Cloud bare medal servers deployed with Cloud 66 and using AI but using it in a 66 and using AI but using it in a 66 and using AI but using it in a responsible and local large language responsible and local large language responsible and local large language model really cool really Innovative model really cool really Innovative model really cool really Innovative stuff happening with you and AIA over at stuff happening with you and AIA over at stuff happening with you and AIA over at the stra docomo it you can check out the docomo it you can check out the adventures of Robin Nadia over atth adventures of Robin Nadia over atth adventures of Robin Nadia over atth strac sign up for free maybe enjoy their strac sign up for free maybe enjoy their strac sign up for free maybe enjoy their plus P plan their plus plan and plus P plan their plus plan and plus P plan their plus plan and certainly you can follow Rob fro and certainly you can follow Rob fro and certainly you can follow Rob fro and Nadia Nadia Nadia Ono on on Twitter and anywhere you find Ono on on Twitter and anywhere you find Ono on on Twitter and anywhere you find social media this has been another social media this has been another social media this has been another episode of Hansel minutes and we'll see episode of Hansel minutes and we'll see episode of Hansel minutes and we'll see you again next you again next you again next [Music]