Teaching the next-gen engineer with Dr Carlotta Berry

hi I'm Scott Hanselman this is another hi I'm Scott Hanselman this is another episode of Hansel minutes today I have episode of Hansel minutes today I have episode of Hansel minutes today I have the pleasure of chatting with Dr carlot the pleasure of chatting with Dr carlot the pleasure of chatting with Dr carlot Barry she's a professor of electrical Barry she's a professor of electrical Barry she's a professor of electrical and computer engineering at the rolls and computer engineering at the rolls and computer engineering at the rolls pulman Institute of Technology and an pulman Institute of Technology and an pulman Institute of Technology and an expert in educational mobile robotics as expert in educational mobile robotics as expert in educational mobile robotics as well as human robot interfaces how are well as human robot interfaces how are well as human robot interfaces how are you I am wonderful how are you I am very you I am wonderful how are you I am very you I am wonderful how are you I am very well I'm thrilled to be chatting with well I'm thrilled to be chatting with well I'm thrilled to be chatting with you because um I you know I follow you you because um I you know I follow you you because um I you know I follow you on Tik Tok I see you on social media on Tik Tok I see you on social media on Tik Tok I see you on social media you're have an infectious enthusiastic you're have an infectious enthusiastic you're have an infectious enthusiastic way of teaching and uh I just want you way of teaching and uh I just want you way of teaching and uh I just want you to know that I see you and I I wanted to to know that I see you and I I wanted to to know that I see you and I I wanted to have you on the show because I wanted to have you on the show because I wanted to have you on the show because I wanted to also get that level of infectious also get that level of infectious also get that level of infectious enthusiasm thank you so much for having enthusiasm thank you so much for having enthusiasm thank you so much for having me I'm glad that it translates through me I'm glad that it translates through me I'm glad that it translates through the screen yeah it's it's challenging the screen yeah it's it's challenging the screen yeah it's it's challenging because I can see how one could get because I can see how one could get because I can see how one could get burned out with with tech I could see burned out with with tech I could see burned out with with tech I could see how someone could get burned out with how someone could get burned out with how someone could get burned out with teaching and combine the two and I could teaching and combine the two and I could teaching and combine the two and I could see where someone could get burned out see where someone could get burned out see where someone could get burned out real quick is there is there a way real quick is there is there a way real quick is there is there a way people ask me how I don't get burned out people ask me how I don't get burned out people ask me how I don't get burned out how do you prevent burnout when when how do you prevent burnout when when how do you prevent burnout when when when you want to bring enthusiasm to the when you want to bring enthusiasm to the when you want to bring enthusiasm to the to the young people I embrace my mission to the young people I embrace my mission to the young people I embrace my mission so the mission of my company is my stem so the mission of my company is my stem so the mission of my company is my stem is for the streets and I had an epiphany is for the streets and I had an epiphany is for the streets and I had an epiphany during the pandemic when we were all at during the pandemic when we were all at during the pandemic when we were all at home that there's so much great home that there's so much great home that there's so much great knowledge in engineering education but knowledge in engineering education but knowledge in engineering education but it's really a shame that only the it's really a shame that only the it's really a shame that only the students with the high you know paying students with the high you know paying students with the high you know paying the high tuition or behind the pay wall the high tuition or behind the pay wall the high tuition or behind the pay wall or the firewall of journals and or the firewall of journals and or the firewall of journals and conferences were the only one to benefit conferences were the only one to benefit conferences were the only one to benefit from this knowledge and I just made a from this knowledge and I just made a from this knowledge and I just made a mission that I was going to start put mission that I was going to start put mission that I was going to start put posting Snippets online wherever some of

posting Snippets online wherever some of posting Snippets online wherever some of my first posts were Instagram Twitter my first posts were Instagram Twitter my first posts were Instagram Twitter and I really wanted to get young people and I really wanted to get young people and I really wanted to get young people excited because I wanted to diversify excited because I wanted to diversify excited because I wanted to diversify stem get more girls um black and brown stem get more girls um black and brown stem get more girls um black and brown kids Hispanic um African-American Etc kids Hispanic um African-American Etc kids Hispanic um African-American Etc and I had a parent say you got to go to and I had a parent say you got to go to and I had a parent say you got to go to Tik Tok and I was like I don't want to Tik Tok and I was like I don't want to Tik Tok and I was like I don't want to do any more social media got to Tik Tok do any more social media got to Tik Tok do any more social media got to Tik Tok and loved it love love loved it because and loved it love love loved it because and loved it love love loved it because you could just put up a video and let you could just put up a video and let you could just put up a video and let people you know put up a quiz think what people you know put up a quiz think what people you know put up a quiz think what they want answer how you know my quizzes they want answer how you know my quizzes they want answer how you know my quizzes don't have right or wrong answers I just don't have right or wrong answers I just don't have right or wrong answers I just want you to engage with me to be honest want you to engage with me to be honest want you to engage with me to be honest yeah you know by the time this publishes yeah you know by the time this publishes yeah you know by the time this publishes we'll know whether or not Tik Tok will we'll know whether or not Tik Tok will we'll know whether or not Tik Tok will still be around but I have found Tik Tok still be around but I have found Tik Tok still be around but I have found Tik Tok and I wish people would understand this and I wish people would understand this and I wish people would understand this I have found it to be joyful and I have found it to be joyful and I have found it to be joyful and positive and exciting and everyone who positive and exciting and everyone who positive and exciting and everyone who doesn't go on Tik Tok says oh just go to doesn't go on Tik Tok says oh just go to doesn't go on Tik Tok says oh just go to reals and reals is just a soulless reals and reals is just a soulless reals and reals is just a soulless hellscape and they don't understand that hellscape and they don't understand that hellscape and they don't understand that the Vibes are different and I don't know the Vibes are different and I don't know the Vibes are different and I don't know what it is but I just don't think it's a what it is but I just don't think it's a what it is but I just don't think it's a replacement you're singing my song right replacement you're singing my song right replacement you're singing my song right now so I'm an engineer and it's just now so I'm an engineer and it's just now so I'm an engineer and it's just very hard for me to understand Twitter very hard for me to understand Twitter very hard for me to understand Twitter made sense to me Tik Tok made sense to made sense to me Tik Tok made sense to made sense to me Tik Tok made sense to me I have migrated from Twitter to Blue me I have migrated from Twitter to Blue me I have migrated from Twitter to Blue Sky but or X to Blue Sky but I just Sky but or X to Blue Sky but I just Sky but or X to Blue Sky but I just Instagram just doesn't make sense to me Instagram just doesn't make sense to me Instagram just doesn't make sense to me yeah and people and when I say that on yeah and people and when I say that on yeah and people and when I say that on Instagram or I say that on threads like Instagram or I say that on threads like Instagram or I say that on threads like oh you're just being a hater but there's oh you're just being a hater but there's oh you're just being a hater but there's just something about a well-tuned just something about a well-tuned just something about a well-tuned algorithm it takes a day or two for it algorithm it takes a day or two for it algorithm it takes a day or two for it to figure you out and it's like okay to figure you out and it's like okay to figure you out and it's like okay it's giving me the things that I want it's giving me the things that I want it's giving me the things that I want and I totally agree with you on the and I totally agree with you on the and I totally agree with you on the growth situation I have been absolutely growth situation I have been absolutely growth situation I have been absolutely flat on Instagram and I have found Tik

flat on Instagram and I have found Tik flat on Instagram and I have found Tik Tok to be a growth platform people are Tok to be a growth platform people are Tok to be a growth platform people are delightful and the interactions are delightful and the interactions are delightful and the interactions are positive and there's something about the positive and there's something about the positive and there's something about the way they're making it a positive place way they're making it a positive place way they're making it a positive place which I think is really exciting and the which I think is really exciting and the which I think is really exciting and the young people seem to like what we're young people seem to like what we're young people seem to like what we're what we're giving them abely absolutely what we're giving them abely absolutely what we're giving them abely absolutely um I did go to Red note yesterday just um I did go to Red note yesterday just um I did go to Red note yesterday just to test it out did too don't know what's to test it out did too don't know what's to test it out did too don't know what's going to happen with Tik Tok and can I going to happen with Tik Tok and can I going to happen with Tik Tok and can I just tell you they are equally as just tell you they are equally as just tell you they are equally as welcoming even though half the time I welcoming even though half the time I welcoming even though half the time I don't know what I'm reading but the good don't know what I'm reading but the good don't know what I'm reading but the good thing about it is you can take a thing about it is you can take a thing about it is you can take a screenshot of it and you can translate screenshot of it and you can translate screenshot of it and you can translate it right on your phone and then go right it right on your phone and then go right it right on your phone and then go right back in there and answer them so it has back in there and answer them so it has back in there and answer them so it has been wonderful as well um it's only been been wonderful as well um it's only been been wonderful as well um it's only been it's so funny that we would rather go to it's so funny that we would rather go to it's so funny that we would rather go to another Chinese video sharing app than another Chinese video sharing app than another Chinese video sharing app than go to Instagram that's how bad it is so go to Instagram that's how bad it is so go to Instagram that's how bad it is so yes someone needs to acknowledge that yes someone needs to acknowledge that yes someone needs to acknowledge that but you're also on haer iO and YouTube but you're also on haer iO and YouTube but you're also on haer iO and YouTube and instructables like you and I think and instructables like you and I think and instructables like you and I think share the philosophy of you go where the share the philosophy of you go where the share the philosophy of you go where the people are yes so you want to get your people are yes so you want to get your people are yes so you want to get your message out so it's pretty clear that message out so it's pretty clear that message out so it's pretty clear that you just went to wherever they are to you just went to wherever they are to you just went to wherever they are to make sure that your message gets hurt make sure that your message gets hurt make sure that your message gets hurt 100% um my stem is for the streets um 100% um my stem is for the streets um 100% um my stem is for the streets um I'm trying to meet them where they are I'm trying to meet them where they are I'm trying to meet them where they are I've met lots of parents I've met K I've met lots of parents I've met K I've met lots of parents I've met K through 12 teachers I've shared my robot through 12 teachers I've shared my robot through 12 teachers I've shared my robot designs I've shipped robots to people designs I've shipped robots to people designs I've shipped robots to people that I've met on mastedon I've met him that I've met on mastedon I've met him that I've met on mastedon I've met him on Twitter Tik Tok YouTube wherever um on Twitter Tik Tok YouTube wherever um on Twitter Tik Tok YouTube wherever um invited people to workshops I've been invited people to workshops I've been invited people to workshops I've been invited to talks things that cannot invited to talks things that cannot invited to talks things that cannot happen with me just being in the Ivory happen with me just being in the Ivory happen with me just being in the Ivory Tower um with just my students and my Tower um with just my students and my Tower um with just my students and my colleagues that I see at at colleagues that I see at at colleagues that I see at at conferences all right so I want to ask conferences all right so I want to ask conferences all right so I want to ask you a bit of a controversial take I want

you a bit of a controversial take I want you a bit of a controversial take I want to share one of my spicy takes and you to share one of my spicy takes and you to share one of my spicy takes and you tell me what you think uh I met a family tell me what you think uh I met a family tell me what you think uh I met a family who was a little bit interested in 3D who was a little bit interested in 3D who was a little bit interested in 3D printing and Robotics and they felt that printing and Robotics and they felt that printing and Robotics and they felt that it was too expensive and I said it was too expensive and I said it was too expensive and I said well you can get a 3D printer for like well you can get a 3D printer for like well you can get a 3D printer for like $2.99 and a really nice one for $3.99 $2.99 and a really nice one for $3.99 $2.99 and a really nice one for $3.99 and they said well I think that's too and they said well I think that's too and they said well I think that's too expensive but behind them was a expensive but behind them was a expensive but behind them was a PlayStation 5 with a dozen games and PlayStation 5 with a dozen games and PlayStation 5 with a dozen games and probably 11 $1,200 worth of PlayStation probably 11 $1,200 worth of PlayStation probably 11 $1,200 worth of PlayStation is it a fair comparison when I say you is it a fair comparison when I say you is it a fair comparison when I say you know an Xbox for 400 bucks or a 3D know an Xbox for 400 bucks or a 3D know an Xbox for 400 bucks or a 3D printer and a stem kit for 400 bucks printer and a stem kit for 400 bucks printer and a stem kit for 400 bucks like I understand the the call of the like I understand the the call of the like I understand the the call of the video game but I also feel like you can video game but I also feel like you can video game but I also feel like you can be a consumer you can be a Creator so of be a consumer you can be a Creator so of be a consumer you can be a Creator so of the talks I give to people is I'm okay the talks I give to people is I'm okay the talks I give to people is I'm okay with young people being consumers but with young people being consumers but with young people being consumers but also make them creators of technology so also make them creators of technology so also make them creators of technology so some examples I give I I you know I some examples I give I I you know I some examples I give I I you know I don't judge people who do video games my don't judge people who do video games my don't judge people who do video games my daughter is one of them she's 16 no no daughter is one of them she's 16 no no daughter is one of them she's 16 no no judgment here right but what I will say judgment here right but what I will say judgment here right but what I will say is if you're G to have them doing things is if you're G to have them doing things is if you're G to have them doing things as a consumer also make them a Creator as a consumer also make them a Creator as a consumer also make them a Creator do you have them build worlds on do you have them build worlds on do you have them build worlds on Minecraft do you have them use Roblox Minecraft do you have them use Roblox Minecraft do you have them use Roblox have them do some things that engage have them do some things that engage have them do some things that engage their mind but also your public library their mind but also your public library their mind but also your public library now has a maker space and 3D printers so now has a maker space and 3D printers so now has a maker space and 3D printers so if you absolutely do not want to let go if you absolutely do not want to let go if you absolutely do not want to let go of the Nintendo the switch or the Xbox of the Nintendo the switch or the Xbox of the Nintendo the switch or the Xbox get some of the thingy verse models from get some of the thingy verse models from get some of the thingy verse models from online and truck yourself to the public online and truck yourself to the public online and truck yourself to the public library but don't give up on that one of library but don't give up on that one of library but don't give up on that one of my biggest frustrations is I do a lot of my biggest frustrations is I do a lot of my biggest frustrations is I do a lot of book talks robot talks um exhibits and book talks robot talks um exhibits and book talks robot talks um exhibits and Spares is when I go and the kids are

Spares is when I go and the kids are Spares is when I go and the kids are playing with a robot on the floor and playing with a robot on the floor and playing with a robot on the floor and I'll have a young lady a little girl I'll have a young lady a little girl I'll have a young lady a little girl come up playing and the parents would come up playing and the parents would come up playing and the parents would come up and go oh her brother's going to come up and go oh her brother's going to come up and go oh her brother's going to love this hold on I'll go get her love this hold on I'll go get her love this hold on I'll go get her brother and I'll be right brother and I'll be right brother and I'll be right back and no we assume the little girl is back and no we assume the little girl is back and no we assume the little girl is just and I'm like she's been standing just and I'm like she's been standing just and I'm like she's been standing here talking to me for 10 minutes why here talking to me for 10 minutes why here talking to me for 10 minutes why are you going to get her brother not are you going to get her brother not are you going to get her brother not that I don't love her brother but you that I don't love her brother but you that I don't love her brother but you know it's this whole changing the model know it's this whole changing the model know it's this whole changing the model and the representation of what an and the representation of what an and the representation of what an engineer looks like let her be excited engineer looks like let her be excited engineer looks like let her be excited to play with the robot too it reminds me to play with the robot too it reminds me to play with the robot too it reminds me of a uh there was a Barbie doll I want of a uh there was a Barbie doll I want of a uh there was a Barbie doll I want to say like 1979 1980 that came out and to say like 1979 1980 that came out and to say like 1979 1980 that came out and was immediately pulled but you would was immediately pulled but you would was immediately pulled but you would pull a string on her back and she would pull a string on her back and she would pull a string on her back and she would say math is say math is say math is hard like what committee meeting hard like what committee meeting hard like what committee meeting occurred to ow that to ship and who occurred to ow that to ship and who occurred to ow that to ship and who thought that was a good idea and that's thought that was a good idea and that's thought that was a good idea and that's that's where you set those things do you that's where you set those things do you that's where you set those things do you remember um they had to pull this too remember um they had to pull this too remember um they had to pull this too when Mattel had a robotics engineer it when Mattel had a robotics engineer it when Mattel had a robotics engineer it was like a comic book and the the the I was like a comic book and the the the I was like a comic book and the the the I have the Barbie by the robotics engineer have the Barbie by the robotics engineer have the Barbie by the robotics engineer Barbie but it was like uh Barbie is a Barbie but it was like uh Barbie is a Barbie but it was like uh Barbie is a computer engineer and the story had to computer engineer and the story had to computer engineer and the story had to be pulled because in this the original be pulled because in this the original be pulled because in this the original story her software isn't working so she story her software isn't working so she story her software isn't working so she has to go and get the guys to help her has to go and get the guys to help her has to go and get the guys to help her figure out the code and find the bug and figure out the code and find the bug and figure out the code and find the bug and some women engine were like pull this some women engine were like pull this some women engine were like pull this now this is so offensive they thought it now this is so offensive they thought it now this is so offensive they thought it was cool because they had made Barbie was cool because they had made Barbie was cool because they had made Barbie into computer engineer but the whole into computer engineer but the whole into computer engineer but the whole story was about how the guys had to come story was about how the guys had to come story was about how the guys had to come help her fix the problem you know and help her fix the problem you know and help her fix the problem you know and it's so funny because it's just not that it's so funny because it's just not that it's so funny because it's just not that deep it's just you just let everybody deep it's just you just let everybody deep it's just you just let everybody make stuff like how hard is that it's make stuff like how hard is that it's make stuff like how hard is that it's just not that complicated like when I just not that complicated like when I just not that complicated like when I did work uh you know wood shop back when

did work uh you know wood shop back when did work uh you know wood shop back when we had like wood shop and they'll send we had like wood shop and they'll send we had like wood shop and they'll send you in with a pair of plastic glasses you in with a pair of plastic glasses you in with a pair of plastic glasses and you've got like a full band saw and you've got like a full band saw and you've got like a full band saw available to you as a child which was available to you as a child which was available to you as a child which was probably a mistake but it was a simpler probably a mistake but it was a simpler probably a mistake but it was a simpler time uh we were not worried about time uh we were not worried about time uh we were not worried about anyone's gender we were just cutting anyone's gender we were just cutting anyone's gender we were just cutting wood and solving problems because I wood and solving problems because I wood and solving problems because I think it's about the the problem solving think it's about the the problem solving think it's about the the problem solving mindset if you if if a little girl or a mindset if you if if a little girl or a mindset if you if if a little girl or a little boy has a problem and they want little boy has a problem and they want little boy has a problem and they want to solve it with a robot or with to solve it with a robot or with to solve it with a robot or with engineering let them play I think engineering let them play I think engineering let them play I think another third rail that I have another third rail that I have another third rail that I have encountered there have been several on encountered there have been several on encountered there have been several on social media is the intersections of Art social media is the intersections of Art social media is the intersections of Art and stem and now some people say science and stem and now some people say science and stem and now some people say science technology engineering and math go technology engineering and math go technology engineering and math go together who was the bright person that together who was the bright person that together who was the bright person that came up with art I think art fits with came up with art I think art fits with came up with art I think art fits with stem in two different ways one of them stem in two different ways one of them stem in two different ways one of them being we want our Engineers to have some being we want our Engineers to have some being we want our Engineers to have some awareness of History ethics how their awareness of History ethics how their awareness of History ethics how their designs will be engaged with by people designs will be engaged with by people designs will be engaged with by people for example The Uncanny Valley in for example The Uncanny Valley in for example The Uncanny Valley in robotics so if you have a person who's robotics so if you have a person who's robotics so if you have a person who's completely Technical and has no completely Technical and has no completely Technical and has no connection with diverse communities the connection with diverse communities the connection with diverse communities the global Community how good could their global Community how good could their global Community how good could their designs possibly be then looking at it designs possibly be then looking at it designs possibly be then looking at it from an artistic aesthetic if you're an from an artistic aesthetic if you're an from an artistic aesthetic if you're an architectural architectural engineer for architectural architectural engineer for architectural architectural engineer for example designing ugly buildings or example designing ugly buildings or example designing ugly buildings or bridges that are not very appealing no bridges that are not very appealing no bridges that are not very appealing no one is going to give you money for those one is going to give you money for those one is going to give you money for those designs so I just think it's absolutely designs so I just think it's absolutely designs so I just think it's absolutely offensive for somebody to say that art offensive for somebody to say that art offensive for somebody to say that art does not belong in stem and some of the does not belong in stem and some of the does not belong in stem and some of the people who have deated with me about people who have deated with me about people who have deated with me about this Humanities arts and social sciences this Humanities arts and social sciences this Humanities arts and social sciences says it's typically normally men who says it's typically normally men who says it's typically normally men who will make fun and say things like oh God will make fun and say things like oh God will make fun and say things like oh God you're not an engineering major and I you're not an engineering major and I you're not an engineering major and I said well you know what they make fun of said well you know what they make fun of said well you know what they make fun of the women who are in stem as well so

the women who are in stem as well so the women who are in stem as well so you're getting it from both ends they you're getting it from both ends they you're getting it from both ends they don't want you there either so I just don't want you there either so I just don't want you there either so I just think it's these kind of things I also think it's these kind of things I also think it's these kind of things I also had a third re about whether kids should had a third re about whether kids should had a third re about whether kids should be doing home work in college to I mean be doing home work in college to I mean be doing home work in college to I mean in high school to get them ready for in high school to get them ready for in high school to get them ready for college I absolutely say if you're going college I absolutely say if you're going college I absolutely say if you're going to college doing homework in high school to college doing homework in high school to college doing homework in high school to help you to learn how to be a problem to help you to learn how to be a problem to help you to learn how to be a problem solver an independent thinker how to solver an independent thinker how to solver an independent thinker how to take something you've learned in class take something you've learned in class take something you've learned in class and reflect on it is absolutely vital I and reflect on it is absolutely vital I and reflect on it is absolutely vital I have gotten into Wars on Twitter and on have gotten into Wars on Twitter and on have gotten into Wars on Twitter and on Tik Tok with K through2 teachers as well Tik Tok with K through2 teachers as well Tik Tok with K through2 teachers as well as parents who say my kids been at as parents who say my kids been at as parents who say my kids been at school all day and I'm not going to make school all day and I'm not going to make school all day and I'm not going to make them do anything when they come home or them do anything when they come home or them do anything when they come home or they're tired after basketball football they're tired after basketball football they're tired after basketball football or theater practice and as a parent I or theater practice and as a parent I or theater practice and as a parent I shouldn't have to make them do anything shouldn't have to make them do anything shouldn't have to make them do anything I've had things with teachers teachers I've had things with teachers teachers I've had things with teachers teachers are like you know socioeconomic are like you know socioeconomic are like you know socioeconomic background some kids have horrible home background some kids have horrible home background some kids have horrible home lives um parents may be on drugs parents lives um parents may be on drugs parents lives um parents may be on drugs parents may not work and they shouldn't have to may not work and they shouldn't have to may not work and they shouldn't have to do anything when they get home and I do anything when they get home and I do anything when they get home and I said it's about self-reflecting on what said it's about self-reflecting on what said it's about self-reflecting on what you learn during the day I've seen since you learn during the day I've seen since you learn during the day I've seen since the pandemic it's actually a little the pandemic it's actually a little the pandemic it's actually a little worse we now have students entering worse we now have students entering worse we now have students entering College engineering Majors who don't College engineering Majors who don't College engineering Majors who don't know how to self-organize don't have any know how to self-organize don't have any know how to self-organize don't have any executive function to do homework cannot executive function to do homework cannot executive function to do homework cannot long-term plan on how to do things these long-term plan on how to do things these long-term plan on how to do things these are things I would like high school to are things I would like high school to are things I would like high school to start to help them with I'm not trying start to help them with I'm not trying start to help them with I'm not trying to give more work to teachers I don't to give more work to teachers I don't to give more work to teachers I don't even care if the homework is graded the even care if the homework is graded the even care if the homework is graded the whole point is being able to reflect on whole point is being able to reflect on whole point is being able to reflect on something so that was a third rail that something so that was a third rail that something so that was a third rail that happened on social media that I was happened on social media that I was happened on social media that I was actually shocked about let me let me actually shocked about let me let me actually shocked about let me let me then just uh for the purpose of the then just uh for the purpose of the then just uh for the purpose of the conversation jump on that third

conversation jump on that third conversation jump on that third rail I agree on both sides that Tik Tok rail I agree on both sides that Tik Tok rail I agree on both sides that Tik Tok is a joy and that there's an executive is a joy and that there's an executive is a joy and that there's an executive function issue is there a causal function issue is there a causal function issue is there a causal relationship between the two because I relationship between the two because I relationship between the two because I had my I had a viral thing on Tik Tok had my I had a viral thing on Tik Tok had my I had a viral thing on Tik Tok you may have seen where my 17-year-old you may have seen where my 17-year-old you may have seen where my 17-year-old bought a flip phone because he came to bought a flip phone because he came to bought a flip phone because he came to me one day and he said I think Tik Tok me one day and he said I think Tik Tok me one day and he said I think Tik Tok is rotting my brain and the idea was is rotting my brain and the idea was is rotting my brain and the idea was it's an infinite scroll like there's no it's an infinite scroll like there's no it's an infinite scroll like there's no end of the scroll and he would lose time end of the scroll and he would lose time end of the scroll and he would lose time and he said I don't want to lose time so and he said I don't want to lose time so and he said I don't want to lose time so I'm only going to do Tik Tok on these I'm only going to do Tik Tok on these I'm only going to do Tik Tok on these days and he would switch between his days and he would switch between his days and he would switch between his flip phone and his other phone I was flip phone and his other phone I was flip phone and his other phone I was really proud of him for doing that but I really proud of him for doing that but I really proud of him for doing that but I don't know if everyone has that level of don't know if everyone has that level of don't know if everyone has that level of self-reflection to be able to say like self-reflection to be able to say like self-reflection to be able to say like and my my my 19-year-old said I'm I want and my my my 19-year-old said I'm I want and my my my 19-year-old said I'm I want to borrow your Kindle because it doesn't to borrow your Kindle because it doesn't to borrow your Kindle because it doesn't have a have a have a browser he acknowledged that there was browser he acknowledged that there was browser he acknowledged that there was no way to like get distracted on a no way to like get distracted on a no way to like get distracted on a Kindle you know on a on a black and Kindle you know on a on a black and Kindle you know on a on a black and white Kindle so what what do you think white Kindle so what what do you think white Kindle so what what do you think about that like you're saying yes they about that like you're saying yes they about that like you're saying yes they need to have executive function but we need to have executive function but we need to have executive function but we also love Tik Tok I love that level of also love Tik Tok I love that level of also love Tik Tok I love that level of maturity I have a colleague who recently maturity I have a colleague who recently maturity I have a colleague who recently said their sophomore in high school said said their sophomore in high school said said their sophomore in high school said the same thing that she now gets up in the same thing that she now gets up in the same thing that she now gets up in the morning and doesn't pick up her the morning and doesn't pick up her the morning and doesn't pick up her phone because she was losing an hour phone because she was losing an hour phone because she was losing an hour every morning um scrolling I also do the every morning um scrolling I also do the every morning um scrolling I also do the same my daughter at 16 did not get a same my daughter at 16 did not get a same my daughter at 16 did not get a cell phone until she was in um ninth cell phone until she was in um ninth cell phone until she was in um ninth grade she's now a junior and she did not grade she's now a junior and she did not grade she's now a junior and she did not get her first social media account which get her first social media account which get her first social media account which is now Instagram until a month ago so is now Instagram until a month ago so is now Instagram until a month ago so because of that she does not understand because of that she does not understand because of that she does not understand the the Mindless scrolling she does not the the Mindless scrolling she does not the the Mindless scrolling she does not understand the addiction to the phone it

understand the addiction to the phone it understand the addiction to the phone it really is just a tool for her to really is just a tool for her to really is just a tool for her to communicate with Mom and Dad hey come communicate with Mom and Dad hey come communicate with Mom and Dad hey come pick me up from wherever I think I agree pick me up from wherever I think I agree pick me up from wherever I think I agree with you I think I now have also become with you I think I now have also become with you I think I now have also become a little bit of that at my old age a little bit of that at my old age a little bit of that at my old age because I did not do social media till because I did not do social media till because I did not do social media till about 10 years ago at all and then you about 10 years ago at all and then you about 10 years ago at all and then you know during the pandemic when we were at know during the pandemic when we were at know during the pandemic when we were at home I started doing it a lot more so I home I started doing it a lot more so I home I started doing it a lot more so I do lose a lot of time with it which is do lose a lot of time with it which is do lose a lot of time with it which is why I now try to make value added why I now try to make value added why I now try to make value added contributions because my husband contributions because my husband contributions because my husband sometimes like what are you doing Tik sometimes like what are you doing Tik sometimes like what are you doing Tik tocking again I said I'm actually doing tocking again I said I'm actually doing tocking again I said I'm actually doing marketing materials right now it's not marketing materials right now it's not marketing materials right now it's not always just me goofing off sometimes I'm always just me goofing off sometimes I'm always just me goofing off sometimes I'm actually creting content but um I agree actually creting content but um I agree actually creting content but um I agree I think that level of maturity is I think that level of maturity is I think that level of maturity is missing from a lot of students and I missing from a lot of students and I missing from a lot of students and I also think that um YouTube and that also think that um YouTube and that also think that um YouTube and that scrolling makes it difficult for some of scrolling makes it difficult for some of scrolling makes it difficult for some of them to sit there and get anything out them to sit there and get anything out them to sit there and get anything out of a 50-minute lecture most universities of a 50-minute lecture most universities of a 50-minute lecture most universities including myself have a no cell phone in including myself have a no cell phone in including myself have a no cell phone in class policy unless if you're taking it class policy unless if you're taking it class policy unless if you're taking it out you have an emergency a medical out you have an emergency a medical out you have an emergency a medical emergency you're a doctor you need to emergency you're a doctor you need to emergency you're a doctor you need to run out and deliver a baby Etc but run out and deliver a baby Etc but run out and deliver a baby Etc but because of that some of them really because of that some of them really because of that some of them really struggle to just sit there for 50 struggle to just sit there for 50 struggle to just sit there for 50 minutes and get something out of it so minutes and get something out of it so minutes and get something out of it so the way I have to do that is I do Active the way I have to do that is I do Active the way I have to do that is I do Active Learning in class know it any moment Learning in class know it any moment Learning in class know it any moment moment I'm going to stop and ask you a moment I'm going to stop and ask you a moment I'm going to stop and ask you a question or I'm going to have you do question or I'm going to have you do question or I'm going to have you do something I don't do the chalk talks something I don't do the chalk talks something I don't do the chalk talks where I just stand there for 50 minutes where I just stand there for 50 minutes where I just stand there for 50 minutes while you stare at me and we leave so while you stare at me and we leave so while you stare at me and we leave so you need to be engaged hands on and you need to be engaged hands on and you need to be engaged hands on and Minds on so that you get something out Minds on so that you get something out Minds on so that you get something out of that talk because they're so used to of that talk because they're so used to of that talk because they're so used to the the flashing colors and things the the flashing colors and things the the flashing colors and things spinning and every 10 seconds scrolling spinning and every 10 seconds scrolling spinning and every 10 seconds scrolling I can't just stand up there and just I can't just stand up there and just I can't just stand up there and just talk and expect some of them to get talk and expect some of them to get talk and expect some of them to get anything out of what I'm saying yeah it

anything out of what I'm saying yeah it anything out of what I'm saying yeah it is such a challenge and a balance and it is such a challenge and a balance and it is such a challenge and a balance and it is going to be really interesting to is going to be really interesting to is going to be really interesting to think about my kids kids and what is think about my kids kids and what is think about my kids kids and what is this doing to brains because I you know this doing to brains because I you know this doing to brains because I you know I I'm not sure how old you are but I I I'm not sure how old you are but I I I'm not sure how old you are but I assume that we are within a couple assume that we are within a couple assume that we are within a couple decades of each other so we are decades of each other so we are decades of each other so we are contemporaries in that we remember a contemporaries in that we remember a contemporaries in that we remember a time before the internet yes and our time before the internet yes and our time before the internet yes and our kids don't remember a time before the kids don't remember a time before the kids don't remember a time before the internet and their kids won't won't internet and their kids won't won't internet and their kids won't won't remember a time before they could just remember a time before they could just remember a time before they could just talk to their computer and it wouldn't talk to their computer and it wouldn't talk to their computer and it wouldn't have the sum of all human knowledge like have the sum of all human knowledge like have the sum of all human knowledge like there are externalized brains now then there are externalized brains now then there are externalized brains now then why would you bother learning math I can why would you bother learning math I can why would you bother learning math I can remember when calculators came out and remember when calculators came out and remember when calculators came out and they were like oh if you carry the they were like oh if you carry the they were like oh if you carry the calculator around then you'll never know calculator around then you'll never know calculator around then you'll never know how to do math so it's going to rot your how to do math so it's going to rot your how to do math so it's going to rot your brain no absolutely and now we have brain no absolutely and now we have brain no absolutely and now we have pocket supercomputers right I talk about pocket supercomputers right I talk about pocket supercomputers right I talk about tools um your calculator is a tool chat tools um your calculator is a tool chat tools um your calculator is a tool chat GPT is a tool garbage in garbage out so GPT is a tool garbage in garbage out so GPT is a tool garbage in garbage out so a more important thing to teach is a more important thing to teach is a more important thing to teach is because some professors are absolutely because some professors are absolutely because some professors are absolutely anti- AI anti- chat GPT on all anti- AI anti- chat GPT on all anti- AI anti- chat GPT on all assignments especially I was on um assignments especially I was on um assignments especially I was on um social media and there were some English social media and there were some English social media and there were some English professors talking about you cannot professors talking about you cannot professors talking about you cannot teach someone the structure of writing teach someone the structure of writing teach someone the structure of writing critical thinking and developing their critical thinking and developing their critical thinking and developing their ideas if they're getting their essays ideas if they're getting their essays ideas if they're getting their essays from chat GPT as an engineer my thoughts from chat GPT as an engineer my thoughts from chat GPT as an engineer my thoughts are a little bit different because we are a little bit different because we are a little bit different because we want to teach critical thinking and want to teach critical thinking and want to teach critical thinking and problem solving I would rather them to problem solving I would rather them to problem solving I would rather them to think about is this solution correct think about is this solution correct think about is this solution correct does it make sense is it solving this does it make sense is it solving this does it make sense is it solving this problem in a way that is the most problem in a way that is the most problem in a way that is the most efficient is that the way you would do efficient is that the way you would do efficient is that the way you would do it I've actually gone in chat GPT and it I've actually gone in chat GPT and it I've actually gone in chat GPT and put in some exam questions that it was put in some exam questions that it was put in some exam questions that it was giving the wrong answers I need to make giving the wrong answers I need to make giving the wrong answers I need to make sure my engineering students would

sure my engineering students would sure my engineering students would recognize that and not just swipe cut recognize that and not just swipe cut recognize that and not just swipe cut paste and turn it in so I'm not anti- AI paste and turn it in so I'm not anti- AI paste and turn it in so I'm not anti- AI at all but I am about critical thinking at all but I am about critical thinking at all but I am about critical thinking with any kind of tools you have with any kind of tools you have with any kind of tools you have similarly with a calculator it is a tool similarly with a calculator it is a tool similarly with a calculator it is a tool not a crutch there needs to be some not a crutch there needs to be some not a crutch there needs to be some level of Mind Math that you can do I'm level of Mind Math that you can do I'm level of Mind Math that you can do I'm currently teaching AC circuits which currently teaching AC circuits which currently teaching AC circuits which requires complex number math depending requires complex number math depending requires complex number math depending on what kind of calculator you have on what kind of calculator you have on what kind of calculator you have because I do Ti calculators some can do because I do Ti calculators some can do because I do Ti calculators some can do systems of equations and some cannot systems of equations and some cannot systems of equations and some cannot don't tell me you can't do anything in don't tell me you can't do anything in don't tell me you can't do anything in your head to understand if it gives you your head to understand if it gives you your head to understand if it gives you an answer of 3 50 volts does that really an answer of 3 50 volts does that really an answer of 3 50 volts does that really make sense for what the circuit gave you make sense for what the circuit gave you make sense for what the circuit gave you to begin with you have to think mind on to begin with you have to think mind on to begin with you have to think mind on anything you do so one of the things anything you do so one of the things anything you do so one of the things that I'm interested in your thoughts that I'm interested in your thoughts that I'm interested in your thoughts about are a thing called systems about are a thing called systems about are a thing called systems thinking yes one of my most popular thinking yes one of my most popular thinking yes one of my most popular podcasts ever was with a an engineer podcasts ever was with a an engineer podcasts ever was with a an engineer named khaw Rogers who and khaw is a out named khaw Rogers who and khaw is a out named khaw Rogers who and khaw is a out of Virginia and she has a whole software of Virginia and she has a whole software of Virginia and she has a whole software consultancy and she says that people consultancy and she says that people consultancy and she says that people keep learning in silos but they don't keep learning in silos but they don't keep learning in silos but they don't think about how those silos connect and think about how those silos connect and think about how those silos connect and they don't think about the context and they don't think about the context and they don't think about the context and the systems within which they they they the systems within which they they they the systems within which they they they exist like you're teaching electrical exist like you're teaching electrical exist like you're teaching electrical engineering but also Computer engineering but also Computer engineering but also Computer Engineering and also software Engineering and also software Engineering and also software engineering and then the ethical system engineering and then the ethical system engineering and then the ethical system and the larger system in which these and the larger system in which these and the larger system in which these things exist how do you get that into a things exist how do you get that into a things exist how do you get that into a brain of a teenager how do you get that brain of a teenager how do you get that brain of a teenager how do you get that in a brain of a 19-year-old I push a lot in a brain of a 19-year-old I push a lot in a brain of a 19-year-old I push a lot multidisiplinary connections especially multidisiplinary connections especially multidisiplinary connections especially in robotics I teach in the in robotics I teach in the in robotics I teach in the multidisiplinary minor in robotics so my multidisiplinary minor in robotics so my multidisiplinary minor in robotics so my robotics course actually has students robotics course actually has students robotics course actually has students from electrical and computer engineering from electrical and computer engineering from electrical and computer engineering computer science and software

computer science and software computer science and software engineering and mechanical engineering engineering and mechanical engineering engineering and mechanical engineering engineering design biomedical engineering design biomedical engineering design biomedical engineering and I talked to them about engineering and I talked to them about engineering and I talked to them about things like there's no design you're things like there's no design you're things like there's no design you're ever going to build where you don't have ever going to build where you don't have ever going to build where you don't have to understand the language of some other to understand the language of some other to understand the language of some other discipline a mechanical engineer could discipline a mechanical engineer could discipline a mechanical engineer could design something that works great design something that works great design something that works great mechanically but if they don't mechanically but if they don't mechanically but if they don't understand how to power it they need to understand how to power it they need to understand how to power it they need to talk to the electrical engineer I teach talk to the electrical engineer I teach talk to the electrical engineer I teach circuits for non- Majors sometimes they circuits for non- Majors sometimes they circuits for non- Majors sometimes they give you a lot of flak because they give you a lot of flak because they give you a lot of flak because they don't want to take this class it has don't want to take this class it has don't want to take this class it has civil engineers chemical engineers and civil engineers chemical engineers and civil engineers chemical engineers and mechanical engineers in there and I mechanical engineers in there and I mechanical engineers in there and I talked to them about things like you talked to them about things like you talked to them about things like you have to have some not only appreciation have to have some not only appreciation have to have some not only appreciation for electricity but understand how it for electricity but understand how it for electricity but understand how it works even in your discipline and I works even in your discipline and I works even in your discipline and I think that goes both ways I need an think that goes both ways I need an think that goes both ways I need an electrical engineer who can write some electrical engineer who can write some electrical engineer who can write some software I need an electrical engineer software I need an electrical engineer software I need an electrical engineer who understands at least something about who understands at least something about who understands at least something about kinematics how are you going to design a kinematics how are you going to design a kinematics how are you going to design a robot if you don't understand anything robot if you don't understand anything robot if you don't understand anything about harenberg you know parameters or about harenberg you know parameters or about harenberg you know parameters or how the things have to move together so how the things have to move together so how the things have to move together so that's how I sell it to them is you are that's how I sell it to them is you are that's how I sell it to them is you are not going to go anywhere where you work not going to go anywhere where you work not going to go anywhere where you work in a cubicle and never have to talk to in a cubicle and never have to talk to in a cubicle and never have to talk to other disciplines multidisiplinary other disciplines multidisiplinary other disciplines multidisiplinary approach is the key to any design that approach is the key to any design that approach is the key to any design that you're going to create that's ever going you're going to create that's ever going you're going to create that's ever going to be useful I love it I love it I'm to be useful I love it I love it I'm to be useful I love it I love it I'm definitely I'm picking up everything definitely I'm picking up everything definitely I'm picking up everything that you're putting down I uh I I use that you're putting down I uh I I use that you're putting down I uh I I use this analogy when I teach to uh younger this analogy when I teach to uh younger this analogy when I teach to uh younger kids like 13 14 and they're like hey kids like 13 14 and they're like hey kids like 13 14 and they're like hey we're going to learn about robotics hey we're going to learn about robotics hey we're going to learn about robotics hey we're going to learn about whatever and we're going to learn about whatever and we're going to learn about whatever and I say all right everybody before we I say all right everybody before we I say all right everybody before we start um my toaster is broken what start um my toaster is broken what start um my toaster is broken what should I do and then I just let it hang should I do and then I just let it hang should I do and then I just let it hang in the in the AUD and and I'm like what in the in the AUD and and I'm like what in the in the AUD and and I'm like what what should I do and they say well you

what should I do and they say well you what should I do and they say well you should probably buy a new toaster oh no should probably buy a new toaster oh no should probably buy a new toaster oh no I said well no no I mean like why how do I said well no no I mean like why how do I said well no no I mean like why how do I debug this toaster situation and you I debug this toaster situation and you I debug this toaster situation and you let it Steep and you let it Steep and let it Steep and you let it Steep and let it Steep and you let it Steep and one of them will say well uh are are the one of them will say well uh are are the one of them will say well uh are are the lights on in the house and then it's lights on in the house and then it's lights on in the house and then it's like okay now you're thinking about the like okay now you're thinking about the like okay now you're thinking about the context in which the toaster exists context in which the toaster exists context in which the toaster exists check the fuse box we start debugging check the fuse box we start debugging check the fuse box we start debugging the toaster and getting out of that oh the toaster and getting out of that oh the toaster and getting out of that oh just replace it solution and then one just replace it solution and then one just replace it solution and then one young lady who always sticks with me I young lady who always sticks with me I young lady who always sticks with me I always use this analogy she says are the always use this analogy she says are the always use this analogy she says are the neighbors lights neighbors lights neighbors lights on and I freaking love that because I on and I freaking love that because I on and I freaking love that because I want hot toasted bread and she's looking want hot toasted bread and she's looking want hot toasted bread and she's looking out the window to see if the neighbor out the window to see if the neighbor out the window to see if the neighbor lights are on if that's not systems lights are on if that's not systems lights are on if that's not systems thinking and that's not an engineer thinking and that's not an engineer thinking and that's not an engineer right there ready to go yes then I don't right there ready to go yes then I don't right there ready to go yes then I don't know what is so that's one of the things know what is so that's one of the things know what is so that's one of the things I teach in circuits because they do I teach in circuits because they do I teach in circuits because they do breadboarding they build circuits on breadboarding they build circuits on breadboarding they build circuits on breadboarding and even if they can breadboarding and even if they can breadboarding and even if they can follow my instructions in a lab being follow my instructions in a lab being follow my instructions in a lab being able to step back for the instructions able to step back for the instructions able to step back for the instructions and say I need a systematic approach to and say I need a systematic approach to and say I need a systematic approach to troubleshoot and problem solve and troubleshoot and problem solve and troubleshoot and problem solve and figure out why this is not working figure out why this is not working figure out why this is not working sometimes it is as simple as they forgot sometimes it is as simple as they forgot sometimes it is as simple as they forgot to flip the power supply on but more to flip the power supply on but more to flip the power supply on but more likely they will raise their hand and likely they will raise their hand and likely they will raise their hand and they will ask me a teaching assistant to they will ask me a teaching assistant to they will ask me a teaching assistant to help them and I always tell them please help them and I always tell them please help them and I always tell them please stop doing that first because if I come stop doing that first because if I come stop doing that first because if I come over and tell you you forgot to flip the over and tell you you forgot to flip the over and tell you you forgot to flip the power supply on next Lab you will forget power supply on next Lab you will forget power supply on next Lab you will forget to switch the power supply on if it to switch the power supply on if it to switch the power supply on if it takes you five hours to figure out you takes you five hours to figure out you takes you five hours to figure out you forgot to flip that power supply switch forgot to flip that power supply switch forgot to flip that power supply switch on you will never forget that again same on you will never forget that again same on you will never forget that again same when I'm doing programming with my when I'm doing programming with my when I'm doing programming with my students I will tell them stop asking me

students I will tell them stop asking me students I will tell them stop asking me to bug your poorly commented and badly to bug your poorly commented and badly to bug your poorly commented and badly organized code just so 3 hours later you organized code just so 3 hours later you organized code just so 3 hours later you can realize in um python you forgot to can realize in um python you forgot to can realize in um python you forgot to put a semicolon because if I tell you put a semicolon because if I tell you put a semicolon because if I tell you that you forgot a semicolon you will do that you forgot a semicolon you will do that you forgot a semicolon you will do it again if you forgot to put a it again if you forgot to put a it again if you forgot to put a semicolon you will check every semicolon semicolon you will check every semicolon semicolon you will check every semicolon for the rest of your life so although for the rest of your life so although for the rest of your life so although they will do that that is actually more they will do that that is actually more they will do that that is actually more important in engineering school than important in engineering school than important in engineering school than sometimes the technical things I'm sometimes the technical things I'm sometimes the technical things I'm teaching you because there's lots of teaching you because there's lots of teaching you because there's lots of things I do that I have no clue how to things I do that I have no clue how to things I do that I have no clue how to do from the do from the do from the but I know how to break it down into but I know how to break it down into but I know how to break it down into subsystems and go I need to check the subsystems and go I need to check the subsystems and go I need to check the hardware I need to check the software I hardware I need to check the software I hardware I need to check the software I need to check the electronics I need to need to check the electronics I need to need to check the electronics I need to connect that the connections are connect that the connections are connect that the connections are speaking to each other so being able to speaking to each other so being able to speaking to each other so being able to take this system break it down into take this system break it down into take this system break it down into subsystems troubleshoot it in subsystems subsystems troubleshoot it in subsystems subsystems troubleshoot it in subsystems and figure out what's wrong is key to and figure out what's wrong is key to and figure out what's wrong is key to doing that and the technical resilience doing that and the technical resilience doing that and the technical resilience to be able to do that for a half an hour to be able to do that for a half an hour to be able to do that for a half an hour two hours 17 hours like I have I had a two hours 17 hours like I have I had a two hours 17 hours like I have I had a 17h hour long debugging session that 17h hour long debugging session that 17h hour long debugging session that ended up being a carriage return I love ended up being a carriage return I love ended up being a carriage return I love it I love it and and but and every like it I love it and and but and every like it I love it and and but and every like that was a waste of time why didn't you that was a waste of time why didn't you that was a waste of time why didn't you ask me but I will never make that ask me but I will never make that ask me but I will never make that mistake again and that carriage return mistake again and that carriage return mistake again and that carriage return has sat with me for decades I had a has sat with me for decades I had a has sat with me for decades I had a student yesterday in Maple I I hate student yesterday in Maple I I hate student yesterday in Maple I I hate Maple by the way but we use maple Maple by the way but we use maple Maple by the way but we use maple sometimes with very complicated systems sometimes with very complicated systems sometimes with very complicated systems and I had checked over her code she had and I had checked over her code she had and I had checked over her code she had checked over her code both of us were checked over her code both of us were checked over her code both of us were adamant we could not figure out what was adamant we could not figure out what was adamant we could not figure out what was wrong and she found it right before I wrong and she found it right before I wrong and she found it right before I did she had for she had put a variable

did she had for she had put a variable did she had for she had put a variable next to a number and forgotten to put a next to a number and forgotten to put a next to a number and forgotten to put a dot so if you don't put a dot it looked dot so if you don't put a dot it looked dot so if you don't put a dot it looked like a function instead of like a function instead of like a function instead of multiplication it's those little things multiplication it's those little things multiplication it's those little things that she will never same same in lab that she will never same same in lab that she will never same same in lab yesterday had a circuit that looked yesterday had a circuit that looked yesterday had a circuit that looked beautiful to me they had a wire going beautiful to me they had a wire going beautiful to me they had a wire going one row over on the one row over on the one row over on the breadboard off one row which means there breadboard off one row which means there breadboard off one row which means there was no connection it's just those little was no connection it's just those little was no connection it's just those little things but to get them to appreciate things but to get them to appreciate things but to get them to appreciate that and stop becoming frustrated and that and stop becoming frustrated and that and stop becoming frustrated and mad about it is important like when they mad about it is important like when they mad about it is important like when they they raise their hand and they go it's they raise their hand and they go it's they raise their hand and they go it's just not working and they have all this just not working and they have all this just not working and they have all this anxiety vibrating I said we're gonna anxiety vibrating I said we're gonna anxiety vibrating I said we're gonna figure it out I always do start to figure it out I always do start to figure it out I always do start to embrace the bugs and not let the bugs embrace the bugs and not let the bugs embrace the bugs and not let the bugs take you outside your box you're take you outside your box you're take you outside your box you're learning through that right H see a as learning through that right H see a as learning through that right H see a as an engineer when you're telling me this an engineer when you're telling me this an engineer when you're telling me this story I am I feel her pain but I also story I am I feel her pain but I also story I am I feel her pain but I also love that because we have all had a wire love that because we have all had a wire love that because we have all had a wire one slot over on a breadboard and that one slot over on a breadboard and that one slot over on a breadboard and that is delightful that is fantastic that is delightful that is fantastic that is delightful that is fantastic that like oh yes I I hear you I feel that how like oh yes I I hear you I feel that how like oh yes I I hear you I feel that how do you get a person who says well this do you get a person who says well this do you get a person who says well this isn't for me how do you make them isn't for me how do you make them isn't for me how do you make them embrace the bug the off by one error embrace the bug the off by one error embrace the bug the off by one error because that's all engineering is it's because that's all engineering is it's because that's all engineering is it's just a series of off by one errors you just a series of off by one errors you just a series of off by one errors you want to find that thing that Rings their want to find that thing that Rings their want to find that thing that Rings their Bell um I've had students come back from Bell um I've had students come back from Bell um I've had students come back from an internship and decide I don't want to an internship and decide I don't want to an internship and decide I don't want to be a computer scientist I think I'm more be a computer scientist I think I'm more be a computer scientist I think I'm more a St to be a computer engineer I've had a St to be a computer engineer I've had a St to be a computer engineer I've had students go to internships and come back students go to internships and come back students go to internships and come back and say I don't think I should be an and say I don't think I should be an and say I don't think I should be an engineer at all well you know it's not engineer at all well you know it's not engineer at all well you know it's not made for everyone and sometimes it's made for everyone and sometimes it's made for everyone and sometimes it's that one class I've had students take

that one class I've had students take that one class I've had students take circuits and go I think I'm changing my circuits and go I think I'm changing my circuits and go I think I'm changing my major from mechanical to electrical it major from mechanical to electrical it major from mechanical to electrical it goes both ways so I really asked them goes both ways so I really asked them goes both ways so I really asked them what do they like about robots do they what do they like about robots do they what do they like about robots do they like programming robots do they like like programming robots do they like like programming robots do they like building robots do they like designing building robots do they like designing building robots do they like designing them do they like the electronics do them do they like the electronics do them do they like the electronics do they like controls because I was a they like controls because I was a they like controls because I was a controls engineer before I was a controls engineer before I was a controls engineer before I was a roboticist because what I find is that roboticist because what I find is that roboticist because what I find is that because a lot of them do first robotics because a lot of them do first robotics because a lot of them do first robotics competition in high school they all competition in high school they all competition in high school they all gravitate to mechanical engineering gravitate to mechanical engineering gravitate to mechanical engineering because in their mind they think because in their mind they think because in their mind they think mechanical engineers are roboticist when mechanical engineers are roboticist when mechanical engineers are roboticist when really computer science software really computer science software really computer science software engineer social psychologist lots of engineer social psychologist lots of engineer social psychologist lots of people study robotics from different people study robotics from different people study robotics from different perspectives so I think that's a big perspectives so I think that's a big perspectives so I think that's a big part is a lot of kids show up in part is a lot of kids show up in part is a lot of kids show up in engineering school because mom or dad engineering school because mom or dad engineering school because mom or dad said I want to be an engineer but they said I want to be an engineer but they said I want to be an engineer but they don't have any self reflection or don't have any self reflection or don't have any self reflection or affinity for what they like to do and affinity for what they like to do and affinity for what they like to do and they'll say to me I don't know what I they'll say to me I don't know what I they'll say to me I don't know what I want to do well the first thing I need want to do well the first thing I need want to do well the first thing I need you to do is go Tinker get your hands on you to do is go Tinker get your hands on you to do is go Tinker get your hands on some stuff and figure out what you like some stuff and figure out what you like some stuff and figure out what you like because it's hard for me to guide you as because it's hard for me to guide you as because it's hard for me to guide you as an advisor to where you want to go in an advisor to where you want to go in an advisor to where you want to go in your career when you cannot even tell me your career when you cannot even tell me your career when you cannot even tell me whether you like to code or you like to whether you like to code or you like to whether you like to code or you like to build Electronics so that's another part build Electronics so that's another part build Electronics so that's another part of talking about being creators not just of talking about being creators not just of talking about being creators not just consumers because you need to know consumers because you need to know consumers because you need to know thyself you know I I'm agreeing with you thyself you know I I'm agreeing with you thyself you know I I'm agreeing with you I'm just nodding uh fervently here I'm just nodding uh fervently here I'm just nodding uh fervently here because I my my parents are not because I my my parents are not because I my my parents are not technical they were never technical but technical they were never technical but technical they were never technical but my dad unapologetically took stuff apart my dad unapologetically took stuff apart my dad unapologetically took stuff apart so we would like you know replace a so we would like you know replace a so we would like you know replace a headlight in a car and I would say oh headlight in a car and I would say oh headlight in a car and I would say oh wow I didn't know you knew how to do wow I didn't know you knew how to do wow I didn't know you knew how to do that and he'd be like I don't but like that and he'd be like I don't but like that and he'd be like I don't but like how hard can it be so like next thing how hard can it be so like next thing how hard can it be so like next thing you know you're underneath the hood of a you know you're underneath the hood of a you know you're underneath the hood of a car and you're pulling things off right car and you're pulling things off right car and you're pulling things off right like they they take apart the toaster

like they they take apart the toaster like they they take apart the toaster more kids should have the ability to do more kids should have the ability to do more kids should have the ability to do that just yeah flip it over let's figure that just yeah flip it over let's figure that just yeah flip it over let's figure out what the screws are and let's take out what the screws are and let's take out what the screws are and let's take the thing apart so I remember taking the thing apart so I remember taking the thing apart so I remember taking apart Atari 6 you know Atari 2600s and apart Atari 6 you know Atari 2600s and apart Atari 6 you know Atari 2600s and commodor 64s and my parents were okay commodor 64s and my parents were okay commodor 64s and my parents were okay with that but I feel like today you with that but I feel like today you with that but I feel like today you can't really take a part of TV anymore can't really take a part of TV anymore can't really take a part of TV anymore and fix a TV it's so complicated but and fix a TV it's so complicated but and fix a TV it's so complicated but this is what I took I get a lot of how this is what I took I get a lot of how this is what I took I get a lot of how can I get my kid in stem this is what can I get my kid in stem this is what can I get my kid in stem this is what made me make the blog post because I was made me make the blog post because I was made me make the blog post because I was getting the question so much so I have getting the question so much so I have getting the question so much so I have it on my blog on my website and I also it on my blog on my website and I also it on my blog on my website and I also had one about um parents asking what had one about um parents asking what had one about um parents asking what kind of things to get their kids I said kind of things to get their kids I said kind of things to get their kids I said let's take this out of buying expensive let's take this out of buying expensive let's take this out of buying expensive robots from Target and start them with robots from Target and start them with robots from Target and start them with leg Lincoln Tinker Toys take a pen apart leg Lincoln Tinker Toys take a pen apart leg Lincoln Tinker Toys take a pen apart and and figure out can you put the pen and and figure out can you put the pen and and figure out can you put the pen back together take a a can opener apart back together take a a can opener apart back together take a a can opener apart it does you don't have to start with the it does you don't have to start with the it does you don't have to start with the TV start with something like that TV start with something like that TV start with something like that because it's about getting them to be because it's about getting them to be because it's about getting them to be creative when I was a little girl my mom creative when I was a little girl my mom creative when I was a little girl my mom was a kindergarten teacher I didn't was a kindergarten teacher I didn't was a kindergarten teacher I didn't really know my dad so mine wasn't really know my dad so mine wasn't really know my dad so mine wasn't Electronics mine was Barbies a lot of Electronics mine was Barbies a lot of Electronics mine was Barbies a lot of stuff I did is because I wanted my stuff I did is because I wanted my stuff I did is because I wanted my Barbie to have it I learned to sew Barbie to have it I learned to sew Barbie to have it I learned to sew because I wanted my Barbie to have a because I wanted my Barbie to have a because I wanted my Barbie to have a cute little outfit I wanted to figure cute little outfit I wanted to figure cute little outfit I wanted to figure out how to make my dream house in out how to make my dream house in out how to make my dream house in Barbie's dream car better so I used to Barbie's dream car better so I used to Barbie's dream car better so I used to use household items to make things I I use household items to make things I I use household items to make things I I was using a mop for doll hair so you was using a mop for doll hair so you was using a mop for doll hair so you don't have to start there I do a don't have to start there I do a don't have to start there I do a presentation for Girl Scouts and I had a presentation for Girl Scouts and I had a presentation for Girl Scouts and I had a parent run up to me in the airport I parent run up to me in the airport I parent run up to me in the airport I don't even remember him being there he don't even remember him being there he don't even remember him being there he said I saw you and I just had to come up said I saw you and I just had to come up said I saw you and I just had to come up here and say thank you because during here and say thank you because during here and say thank you because during your presentation you mentioned sewing your presentation you mentioned sewing your presentation you mentioned sewing and my daughter got so excited because

and my daughter got so excited because and my daughter got so excited because she SWS and I said because Engineers do she SWS and I said because Engineers do she SWS and I said because Engineers do not look one certain way they are not not look one certain way they are not not look one certain way they are not excited about any one thing I do cross excited about any one thing I do cross excited about any one thing I do cross stitching creative Hobbies do not stitching creative Hobbies do not stitching creative Hobbies do not disconnect you from being an engineer my disconnect you from being an engineer my disconnect you from being an engineer my daughter loves to draw I talked to her daughter loves to draw I talked to her daughter loves to draw I talked to her about media arts and science she likes about media arts and science she likes about media arts and science she likes that along with video games so there's that along with video games so there's that along with video games so there's no certain way to be an engineer if you no certain way to be an engineer if you no certain way to be an engineer if you are creative and want to create things are creative and want to create things are creative and want to create things to solve problems we just need to figure to solve problems we just need to figure to solve problems we just need to figure out where that intersection is which is out where that intersection is which is out where that intersection is which is why I got so offended about this young why I got so offended about this young why I got so offended about this young lady talking about who was the stupid lady talking about who was the stupid lady talking about who was the stupid person who decided to put art into stem person who decided to put art into stem person who decided to put art into stem it absolutely belongs there in fact that it absolutely belongs there in fact that it absolutely belongs there in fact that may be the hook for more young women may be the hook for more young women may be the hook for more young women because you don't want them to feel like because you don't want them to feel like because you don't want them to feel like they cannot be an engineer because they they cannot be an engineer because they they cannot be an engineer because they also like dolls or they also like sewing also like dolls or they also like sewing also like dolls or they also like sewing or playing music or dancing or theater or playing music or dancing or theater or playing music or dancing or theater my my son has a deop and he sells uh my my son has a deop and he sells uh my my son has a deop and he sells uh vintage clothing and he bought a sewing vintage clothing and he bought a sewing vintage clothing and he bought a sewing machine that was the most obvious thing machine that was the most obvious thing machine that was the most obvious thing for him to do he's like well I can't for him to do he's like well I can't for him to do he's like well I can't keep buying this clothing at bulk and keep buying this clothing at bulk and keep buying this clothing at bulk and it's all broken up so I need to learn it's all broken up so I need to learn it's all broken up so I need to learn how to sew if sewing is not engineering how to sew if sewing is not engineering how to sew if sewing is not engineering then I am not engine an engineer because then I am not engine an engineer because then I am not engine an engineer because that sewing machine is complicated and that sewing machine is complicated and that sewing machine is complicated and the stitching threading that bobin oh my the stitching threading that bobin oh my the stitching threading that bobin oh my God the bobbin threading is it's been a God the bobbin threading is it's been a God the bobbin threading is it's been a year and we're still having trouble with year and we're still having trouble with year and we're still having trouble with that bobbin but yes I appreciate that I that bobbin but yes I appreciate that I that bobbin but yes I appreciate that I app well I appreciate you chatting with app well I appreciate you chatting with app well I appreciate you chatting with us today and giving us a new Fresh us today and giving us a new Fresh us today and giving us a new Fresh perspective on how people can think perspective on how people can think perspective on how people can think about these things it's fantastic to about these things it's fantastic to about these things it's fantastic to chat with you thank you so much for chat with you thank you so much for chat with you thank you so much for having me I love talking about the stuff having me I love talking about the stuff having me I love talking about the stuff I love talking about that's great well I love talking about that's great well I love talking about that's great well you're you're enthusiasm is infectious

you're you're enthusiasm is infectious you're you're enthusiasm is infectious and if you've enjoyed uh listening to Dr and if you've enjoyed uh listening to Dr and if you've enjoyed uh listening to Dr carlot Barry as much as I have you can carlot Barry as much as I have you can carlot Barry as much as I have you can check her out at Noir steminist dcom check her out at Noir steminist dcom check her out at Noir steminist dcom we'll put a link in the show notes you we'll put a link in the show notes you we'll put a link in the show notes you can see her blog her children's books can see her blog her children's books can see her blog her children's books and learn about places where you might and learn about places where you might and learn about places where you might hear her in the speaking section of her hear her in the speaking section of her hear her in the speaking section of her website this has been another episode of website this has been another episode of website this has been another episode of Hansel minutes and we'll see you again Hansel minutes and we'll see you again Hansel minutes and we'll see you again next week next week next week [Music] [Music] [Music] n