Neverending support for open source with Hayden Barnes

Hi, this is Scott Hanssel and this is Hi, this is Scott Hanssel and this is another episode of Hansel Minutes. Today another episode of Hansel Minutes. Today another episode of Hansel Minutes. Today I'm chatting with Hayden Barnes. He's I'm chatting with Hayden Barnes. He's I'm chatting with Hayden Barnes. He's the open source partner manager for Hero the open source partner manager for Hero the open source partner manager for Hero Devs. How's it going, sir? Great. Thanks Devs. How's it going, sir? Great. Thanks Devs. How's it going, sir? Great. Thanks so much for having me on, Scott. Um, so much for having me on, Scott. Um, so much for having me on, Scott. Um, this is such a cool company idea. Like I this is such a cool company idea. Like I this is such a cool company idea. Like I you know you've you and I have known you know you've you and I have known you know you've you and I have known each other for a long time and we've each other for a long time and we've each other for a long time and we've worked on cool stuff together but like worked on cool stuff together but like worked on cool stuff together but like when I heard about this a company that when I heard about this a company that when I heard about this a company that gives support for open source projects gives support for open source projects gives support for open source projects that are end of life. What a genius that are end of life. What a genius that are end of life. What a genius idea. Like how did you get hooked up idea. Like how did you get hooked up idea. Like how did you get hooked up with these guys? So I uh hooked up with with these guys? So I uh hooked up with with these guys? So I uh hooked up with her based on my experience in her based on my experience in her based on my experience in crossplatform open source crossplatform open source crossplatform open source development.net. development.net. development.net. uh they got started primarily in the uh they got started primarily in the uh they got started primarily in the front-end space uh projects like front-end space uh projects like front-end space uh projects like AngularJS AngularJS AngularJS uh and Node and Vue and as their catalog uh and Node and Vue and as their catalog uh and Node and Vue and as their catalog has expanded they've been growing has expanded they've been growing has expanded they've been growing essentially down the stack. So they essentially down the stack. So they essentially down the stack. So they recently entered the Java space with the recently entered the Java space with the recently entered the Java space with the Spring uh web framework and one of their Spring uh web framework and one of their Spring uh web framework and one of their top requested uh products after that top requested uh products after that top requested uh products after that wasnet. So we are working our way down wasnet. So we are working our way down wasnet. So we are working our way down the stack and building out those the stack and building out those the stack and building out those frameworks uh you know includes things frameworks uh you know includes things frameworks uh you know includes things like web frameworks ASP.NET net, but like web frameworks ASP.NET net, but like web frameworks ASP.NET net, but we're getting into systems and guey we're getting into systems and guey we're getting into systems and guey applications applications applications uh and a lot more uh neat things like uh and a lot more uh neat things like uh and a lot more uh neat things like databases. Yeah. Then the number of databases. Yeah. Then the number of databases. Yeah. Then the number of products is like shockingly large. Like

products is like shockingly large. Like products is like shockingly large. Like I'm looking here and it's like node all I'm looking here and it's like node all I'm looking here and it's like node all the way back to 12, Bootstrap 2, all the way back to 12, Bootstrap 2, all the way back to 12, Bootstrap 2, all versions of Struts. Um and uh it almost versions of Struts. Um and uh it almost versions of Struts. Um and uh it almost seems like when I say impossibly large, seems like when I say impossibly large, seems like when I say impossibly large, I'm not just like blowing smoke. I'm I'm not just like blowing smoke. I'm I'm not just like blowing smoke. I'm saying like how is that possible? like saying like how is that possible? like saying like how is that possible? like how big is this group? How can you have how big is this group? How can you have how big is this group? How can you have expertise that goes that far back? expertise that goes that far back? expertise that goes that far back? So, we're a startup uh about 120 So, we're a startup uh about 120 So, we're a startup uh about 120 employees, but unlike a lot of startups, employees, but unlike a lot of startups, employees, but unlike a lot of startups, we're not just running on VC funds. We we're not just running on VC funds. We we're not just running on VC funds. We were mostly bootstrapped from day one, were mostly bootstrapped from day one, were mostly bootstrapped from day one, thanks in large part to uh Google thanks in large part to uh Google thanks in large part to uh Google essentially blessing us as the uh essentially blessing us as the uh essentially blessing us as the uh maintainers of Angular.js when it was maintainers of Angular.js when it was maintainers of Angular.js when it was deprecated. And the team has significant deprecated. And the team has significant deprecated. And the team has significant front-end experience uh which is uh front-end experience uh which is uh front-end experience uh which is uh allowing them to support the wide range allowing them to support the wide range allowing them to support the wide range of mostly JavaScript based frameworks um of mostly JavaScript based frameworks um of mostly JavaScript based frameworks um also a lot of background and experience also a lot of background and experience also a lot of background and experience and open- source security and uh secure and open- source security and uh secure and open- source security and uh secure supply chain uh and working with these supply chain uh and working with these supply chain uh and working with these upstream projects as we continue this upstream projects as we continue this upstream projects as we continue this journey down the stack uh we bring in journey down the stack uh we bring in journey down the stack uh we bring in the expertise needed. So uh a fair the expertise needed. So uh a fair the expertise needed. So uh a fair number of hires in the Java space number of hires in the Java space number of hires in the Java space particularly uh from the uh spring particularly uh from the uh spring particularly uh from the uh spring community and as we ramp up our net community and as we ramp up our net community and as we ramp up our net offering um I joined and we have brought offering um I joined and we have brought offering um I joined and we have brought on experts uh innet to uh round out on experts uh innet to uh round out on experts uh innet to uh round out those skills.

those skills. those skills. Interesting. Now, one of the things that Interesting. Now, one of the things that Interesting. Now, one of the things that I think is is is curious when I look at I think is is is curious when I look at I think is is is curious when I look at how you are how Hero Devs is positioning how you are how Hero Devs is positioning how you are how Hero Devs is positioning this. They're saying secure dropin this. They're saying secure dropin this. They're saying secure dropin replacements. So, are these are these replacements. So, are these are these replacements. So, are these are these forks? Are you pushing them back forks? Are you pushing them back forks? Are you pushing them back upstream? Uh like how are you good open upstream? Uh like how are you good open upstream? Uh like how are you good open source uh members? But also, why is it source uh members? But also, why is it source uh members? But also, why is it called a drop-in replacement? What are called a drop-in replacement? What are called a drop-in replacement? What are we what am I getting if I for example we what am I getting if I for example we what am I getting if I for example decided I needed a copy of Angular 15? decided I needed a copy of Angular 15? decided I needed a copy of Angular 15? Right? So in many cases you simply uh Right? So in many cases you simply uh Right? So in many cases you simply uh you become a customer uh and you obtain you become a customer uh and you obtain you become a customer uh and you obtain a token through our uh customer portal a token through our uh customer portal a token through our uh customer portal our package repository and update your our package repository and update your our package repository and update your package sources to point to uh our package sources to point to uh our package sources to point to uh our package repository and you get uh package repository and you get uh package repository and you get uh ongoing uh updates uh with uh uh high to ongoing uh updates uh with uh uh high to ongoing uh updates uh with uh uh high to critical severity CVEEs. critical severity CVEEs. critical severity CVEEs. patched and the way we contribute as uh patched and the way we contribute as uh patched and the way we contribute as uh open source community members is um we open source community members is um we open source community members is um we simply don't you know take you know an simply don't you know take you know an simply don't you know take you know an EOL version and and fork it I mean we EOL version and and fork it I mean we EOL version and and fork it I mean we practically do right an end of life practically do right an end of life practically do right an end of life version and uh fork it uh we routinely version and uh fork it uh we routinely version and uh fork it uh we routinely partner with the upstream open source partner with the upstream open source partner with the upstream open source projects whether that's a single projects whether that's a single projects whether that's a single maintainer uh a company uh a project or

maintainer uh a company uh a project or maintainer uh a company uh a project or you know even a foundation that sponsors you know even a foundation that sponsors you know even a foundation that sponsors a number of open source projects. We a number of open source projects. We a number of open source projects. We have a number of arrangements we've put have a number of arrangements we've put have a number of arrangements we've put in place. Everything from hiring key in place. Everything from hiring key in place. Everything from hiring key members of the uh project staff to uh members of the uh project staff to uh members of the uh project staff to uh sponsoring organizations like uh sponsoring organizations like uh sponsoring organizations like uh OpenJS to uh funding community efforts OpenJS to uh funding community efforts OpenJS to uh funding community efforts uh around the uh projects that we've uh around the uh projects that we've uh around the uh projects that we've taken on. So um we're not simply just taken on. So um we're not simply just taken on. So um we're not simply just relying on these and and taking them and relying on these and and taking them and relying on these and and taking them and you know packaging them and making them you know packaging them and making them you know packaging them and making them available uh you know at at at cost to available uh you know at at at cost to available uh you know at at at cost to enterprise customers. Um we are uh enterprise customers. Um we are uh enterprise customers. Um we are uh sharing revenue back uh and and time and sharing revenue back uh and and time and sharing revenue back uh and and time and effort back upstream. effort back upstream. effort back upstream. That's super cool you know and the fact That's super cool you know and the fact That's super cool you know and the fact that like it's you it's using the that like it's you it's using the that like it's you it's using the package idea like if you're doing struts package idea like if you're doing struts package idea like if you're doing struts then you update your Maven files your then you update your Maven files your then you update your Maven files your gradal files. If you're using uh gradal files. If you're using uh gradal files. If you're using uh JavaScript, you update your package JavaScript, you update your package JavaScript, you update your package JSON. You know, you you you're providing JSON. You know, you you you're providing JSON. You know, you you you're providing a feed for an endof life thing and you a feed for an endof life thing and you a feed for an endof life thing and you just kind of point back to that feed uh just kind of point back to that feed uh just kind of point back to that feed uh and the feed you get access to with that and the feed you get access to with that and the feed you get access to with that with that token. And then rather than with that token. And then rather than with that token. And then rather than having to pay money to migrate and do having to pay money to migrate and do having to pay money to migrate and do all of the work and test, you just stay all of the work and test, you just stay all of the work and test, you just stay comfortably in the past and it's your comfortably in the past and it's your comfortably in the past and it's your decision whether or not you get rushed decision whether or not you get rushed decision whether or not you get rushed or pressured into upgrading or not. You or pressured into upgrading or not. You or pressured into upgrading or not. You call them NES, right? Not Nintendo, but call them NES, right? Not Nintendo, but call them NES, right? Not Nintendo, but never ending never- ending support as never ending never- ending support as never ending never- ending support as opposed to long-term support or

opposed to long-term support or opposed to long-term support or short-term support, STS. Right. Right. short-term support, STS. Right. Right. short-term support, STS. Right. Right. And, you know, we don't want to And, you know, we don't want to And, you know, we don't want to prevent customers from upgrading. prevent customers from upgrading. prevent customers from upgrading. Obviously, they need a long-term Obviously, they need a long-term Obviously, they need a long-term migration story, but often times, migration story, but often times, migration story, but often times, particularly with large enterprise particularly with large enterprise particularly with large enterprise customers, government agencies, customers, government agencies, customers, government agencies, uh they need a long-term horizon to make uh they need a long-term horizon to make uh they need a long-term horizon to make those migrations happen. And we're those migrations happen. And we're those migrations happen. And we're simply providing that additional padding simply providing that additional padding simply providing that additional padding uh to make those migrations over time. uh to make those migrations over time. uh to make those migrations over time. It's such a cool idea to uh to do that. It's such a cool idea to uh to do that. It's such a cool idea to uh to do that. I just I just love that. Do you think I just I just love that. Do you think I just I just love that. Do you think that this is a solution for some of the that this is a solution for some of the that this is a solution for some of the problems that that we have in the open problems that that we have in the open problems that that we have in the open source community? Because I think people source community? Because I think people source community? Because I think people like make stuff and the expectation is like make stuff and the expectation is like make stuff and the expectation is never ending support like but then the never ending support like but then the never ending support like but then the never- ending support be might be never- ending support be might be never- ending support be might be some single maintainer project like some single maintainer project like some single maintainer project like these are all big projects but I'm just these are all big projects but I'm just these are all big projects but I'm just pointing out that like it is pointing out that like it is pointing out that like it is unreasonable to expect never- ending unreasonable to expect never- ending unreasonable to expect never- ending support but by making that possible they support but by making that possible they support but by making that possible they can go and innovate do the next version can go and innovate do the next version can go and innovate do the next version and it provides a reasonable opportunity and it provides a reasonable opportunity and it provides a reasonable opportunity and an option for someone who before and an option for someone who before and an option for someone who before would have been I guess just left on an would have been I guess just left on an would have been I guess just left on an insecure unsupported version with no insecure unsupported version with no insecure unsupported version with no recourse at all, which is which is not a recourse at all, which is which is not a recourse at all, which is which is not a position you want to be in. Right. A lot position you want to be in. Right. A lot position you want to be in. Right. A lot of the projects that we take on and of the projects that we take on and of the projects that we take on and partner with actually uh love that we've partner with actually uh love that we've partner with actually uh love that we've come along to provide this come along to provide this come along to provide this service. They can then point to us in service. They can then point to us in service. They can then point to us in their deprecation notices and in their

their deprecation notices and in their their deprecation notices and in their release notes and say, "Hey, you know, release notes and say, "Hey, you know, release notes and say, "Hey, you know, we're deprecating this version on this we're deprecating this version on this we're deprecating this version on this date. If you still need date. If you still need date. If you still need support, contact hero devs." And that support, contact hero devs." And that support, contact hero devs." And that basically gets that burden off their basically gets that burden off their basically gets that burden off their plate so they can continue to work plate so they can continue to work plate so they can continue to work upstream, innovate on new features, new upstream, innovate on new features, new upstream, innovate on new features, new functionality, and they're relieved of functionality, and they're relieved of functionality, and they're relieved of that support burden. So it definitely that support burden. So it definitely that support burden. So it definitely contributes to the sustainability contributes to the sustainability contributes to the sustainability particularly of those volunteer like particularly of those volunteer like particularly of those volunteer like projectbased uh open-source uh projectbased uh open-source uh projectbased uh open-source uh frameworks and toolkits. And frameworks and toolkits. And frameworks and toolkits. And hey friends, it's an advertising break. hey friends, it's an advertising break. hey friends, it's an advertising break. We're going to take a moment and chat We're going to take a moment and chat We're going to take a moment and chat with our new sponsor, Sharegate by Work. with our new sponsor, Sharegate by Work. with our new sponsor, Sharegate by Work. You know, if you're thinking about You know, if you're thinking about You know, if you're thinking about deploying C-pilot in an organization, deploying C-pilot in an organization, deploying C-pilot in an organization, but you've got a whole bunch of but you've got a whole bunch of but you've got a whole bunch of documents and a whole bunch of documents and a whole bunch of documents and a whole bunch of information, that can be a new information, that can be a new information, that can be a new challenge. Shayen Gimby, what makes it challenge. Shayen Gimby, what makes it challenge. Shayen Gimby, what makes it so challenging for IT teams? Copilot is so challenging for IT teams? Copilot is so challenging for IT teams? Copilot is an incredible tool, but only if your an incredible tool, but only if your an incredible tool, but only if your Microsoft 365 environment is clean, Microsoft 365 environment is clean, Microsoft 365 environment is clean, secure, and structured. You know, if secure, and structured. You know, if secure, and structured. You know, if your permissions are a mess or your your permissions are a mess or your your permissions are a mess or your teams are inactive and your SharePoint teams are inactive and your SharePoint teams are inactive and your SharePoint sites are unstructured, you're basically sites are unstructured, you're basically sites are unstructured, you're basically setting a C-pilot up to pull the wrong setting a C-pilot up to pull the wrong setting a C-pilot up to pull the wrong data for the wrong people. And C-pilot data for the wrong people. And C-pilot data for the wrong people. And C-pilot only works effectively if everything is only works effectively if everything is only works effectively if everything is in one tenant. So, if your data is in one tenant. So, if your data is in one tenant. So, if your data is scattered across multiple tenants, scattered across multiple tenants, scattered across multiple tenants, C-Pilot's ability to retrieve and C-Pilot's ability to retrieve and C-Pilot's ability to retrieve and process information is going to be process information is going to be process information is going to be seriously limited. That's why data seriously limited. That's why data seriously limited. That's why data consolidation should be a top priority consolidation should be a top priority consolidation should be a top priority in your C-pilot readiness plan. You in your C-pilot readiness plan. You in your C-pilot readiness plan. You know, you hear the saying, garbage in, know, you hear the saying, garbage in, know, you hear the saying, garbage in, garbage out. An outdated file from eight

garbage out. An outdated file from eight garbage out. An outdated file from eight years ago with more views might take years ago with more views might take years ago with more views might take priority over a newer, more accurate priority over a newer, more accurate priority over a newer, more accurate file with fewer views, leading to file with fewer views, leading to file with fewer views, leading to unreliable answers. Without cleaning up unreliable answers. Without cleaning up unreliable answers. Without cleaning up your content and structuring your data your content and structuring your data your content and structuring your data properly, you could end up with Copilot properly, you could end up with Copilot properly, you could end up with Copilot generating responses based on outdated generating responses based on outdated generating responses based on outdated or irrelevant files, which is exactly or irrelevant files, which is exactly or irrelevant files, which is exactly why we built our co-pilot readiness why we built our co-pilot readiness why we built our co-pilot readiness assessment. It analyzes your tenant and assessment. It analyzes your tenant and assessment. It analyzes your tenant and gives IT teams clear insights and gives IT teams clear insights and gives IT teams clear insights and recommendations so they can get their recommendations so they can get their recommendations so they can get their environment in shape before rolling out environment in shape before rolling out environment in shape before rolling out C-pilot. That way you're not just C-pilot. That way you're not just C-pilot. That way you're not just flipping a switch and hoping for the flipping a switch and hoping for the flipping a switch and hoping for the best. Now we're cooking with gas. This best. Now we're cooking with gas. This best. Now we're cooking with gas. This is great. Now I know how ShareGate by is great. Now I know how ShareGate by is great. Now I know how ShareGate by Work Leap is going to help me out. It is Work Leap is going to help me out. It is Work Leap is going to help me out. It is packed with best practices, going to packed with best practices, going to packed with best practices, going to guide you at every step. It's your guide you at every step. It's your guide you at every step. It's your out-of-the-box Microsoft 365 migration out-of-the-box Microsoft 365 migration out-of-the-box Microsoft 365 migration tool. Check it out at sharegate.com. And tool. Check it out at sharegate.com. And tool. Check it out at sharegate.com. And thank you for being a sponsor of Hansel thank you for being a sponsor of Hansel thank you for being a sponsor of Hansel Minutes. Minutes. Minutes. your your background I've always found your your background I've always found your your background I've always found to be really fascinating because you to be really fascinating because you to be really fascinating because you know we we hung out and worked on like know we we hung out and worked on like know we we hung out and worked on like WSL the Windows subsystem for Linux and WSL the Windows subsystem for Linux and WSL the Windows subsystem for Linux and you're like a Linux head from way back you're like a Linux head from way back you're like a Linux head from way back you worked at Canonicle on Ubuntu you you worked at Canonicle on Ubuntu you you worked at Canonicle on Ubuntu you worked at S you know SUSA you know so worked at S you know SUSA you know so worked at S you know SUSA you know so you're you're like a deep uh tech nerd you're you're like a deep uh tech nerd you're you're like a deep uh tech nerd but is it true that you're you were also but is it true that you're you were also but is it true that you're you were also a you were a practicing attorney I was I a you were a practicing attorney I was I a you were a practicing attorney I was I was uh how how did you do that like has was uh how how did you do that like has was uh how how did you do that like has that how do you be a techie and a and a that how do you be a techie and a and a that how do you be a techie and a and a and a and an attorney? So, you know, the and a and an attorney? So, you know, the and a and an attorney? So, you know, the funny story behind that is uh for some funny story behind that is uh for some funny story behind that is uh for some reason I just never like did well in

reason I just never like did well in reason I just never like did well in traditional computer science courses and traditional computer science courses and traditional computer science courses and kind of ruled it out as an option. You kind of ruled it out as an option. You kind of ruled it out as an option. You know, I've been tinkering with Linux uh know, I've been tinkering with Linux uh know, I've been tinkering with Linux uh since I was a teenager. My first Linux since I was a teenager. My first Linux since I was a teenager. My first Linux was like Red Hat 5.2 too. Uh, and back was like Red Hat 5.2 too. Uh, and back was like Red Hat 5.2 too. Uh, and back when you bought it in a box and it came when you bought it in a box and it came when you bought it in a box and it came with a book, you know, and I my first with a book, you know, and I my first with a book, you know, and I my first experience with Linux was then having to experience with Linux was then having to experience with Linux was then having to rebuild my kernel to support my uh, rebuild my kernel to support my uh, rebuild my kernel to support my uh, graphics card at the time, an ATA graphics card at the time, an ATA graphics card at the time, an ATA graphics card. The classic Linux uh, graphics card. The classic Linux uh, graphics card. The classic Linux uh, trial by fire is I can't get my graphics trial by fire is I can't get my graphics trial by fire is I can't get my graphics I know that this is like a meme or I know that this is like a meme or I know that this is like a meme or whatever, but like I can't get my whatever, but like I can't get my whatever, but like I can't get my graphics card to work. I shall compile graphics card to work. I shall compile graphics card to work. I shall compile my own kernel. the only solution to get my own kernel. the only solution to get my own kernel. the only solution to get your sound card and your graphics card your sound card and your graphics card your sound card and your graphics card working on it. Of course, it works working on it. Of course, it works working on it. Of course, it works today, but still this was a thing that today, but still this was a thing that today, but still this was a thing that we did when we were teenagers. Yeah. we did when we were teenagers. Yeah. we did when we were teenagers. Yeah. Yeah. Um and uh you know, I wrote a lot Yeah. Um and uh you know, I wrote a lot Yeah. Um and uh you know, I wrote a lot of uh you know, programs to help me of uh you know, programs to help me of uh you know, programs to help me along the way, whether that be to pass along the way, whether that be to pass along the way, whether that be to pass calculus in high school, to check the calculus in high school, to check the calculus in high school, to check the status of my cases, uh practicing law.

status of my cases, uh practicing law. status of my cases, uh practicing law. uh the at the time the uh county uh uh the at the time the uh county uh uh the at the time the uh county uh computer system was a IBM mainframe and computer system was a IBM mainframe and computer system was a IBM mainframe and required you to log in uh with an old required you to log in uh with an old required you to log in uh with an old Java tube based applet and I said you Java tube based applet and I said you Java tube based applet and I said you know I could just write a web front end know I could just write a web front end know I could just write a web front end for this uh to check the status of my for this uh to check the status of my for this uh to check the status of my cases and it slowly became a you know cases and it slowly became a you know cases and it slowly became a you know entire case management system which I entire case management system which I entire case management system which I then uh began licensing out to uh other then uh began licensing out to uh other then uh began licensing out to uh other local attorneys And I was like, hey, you local attorneys And I was like, hey, you local attorneys And I was like, hey, you I'm not half bad at this. And at the I'm not half bad at this. And at the I'm not half bad at this. And at the time, I had made the transition from uh time, I had made the transition from uh time, I had made the transition from uh Mac OS to uh Windows with WSL because it Mac OS to uh Windows with WSL because it Mac OS to uh Windows with WSL because it gave me those desktop applications I gave me those desktop applications I gave me those desktop applications I needed for uh my law practice, but also needed for uh my law practice, but also needed for uh my law practice, but also access to uh a familiar Nyx, in this access to uh a familiar Nyx, in this access to uh a familiar Nyx, in this case, Linux terminal where I could where case, Linux terminal where I could where case, Linux terminal where I could where I could do my work. uh particularly I could do my work. uh particularly I could do my work. uh particularly after the butterfly keyboard debacle on after the butterfly keyboard debacle on after the butterfly keyboard debacle on the uh MacBook Pro um which was the uh MacBook Pro um which was the uh MacBook Pro um which was untenable for me. Uh so I switched to untenable for me. Uh so I switched to untenable for me. Uh so I switched to ThinkPad through uh Windows on there, ThinkPad through uh Windows on there, ThinkPad through uh Windows on there, started working with WSL and then uh started working with WSL and then uh started working with WSL and then uh kind of just got connected through uh kind of just got connected through uh kind of just got connected through uh the you know very early WSL community the you know very early WSL community the you know very early WSL community and started sharing hacks with uh other and started sharing hacks with uh other and started sharing hacks with uh other folks, you know, playing with folks, you know, playing with folks, you know, playing with WSL and eventually we decided to

WSL and eventually we decided to WSL and eventually we decided to assemble assemble assemble all of those, you know, early hacks that all of those, you know, early hacks that all of those, you know, early hacks that were needed to to really get the most were needed to to really get the most were needed to to really get the most out of WSL1 at the time and distribute out of WSL1 at the time and distribute out of WSL1 at the time and distribute our own uh bespoke uh Linux distro for our own uh bespoke uh Linux distro for our own uh bespoke uh Linux distro for WSL called WSL called WSL called Penguin. And we packaged all of that Penguin. And we packaged all of that Penguin. And we packaged all of that stuff in. And it kind of goes back to stuff in. And it kind of goes back to stuff in. And it kind of goes back to that theme you brought up before, which that theme you brought up before, which that theme you brought up before, which was open source sustainability. was open source sustainability. was open source sustainability. And uh you know I was like we put some And uh you know I was like we put some And uh you know I was like we put some effort into this. We're going to provide effort into this. We're going to provide effort into this. We're going to provide community support. This is going to community support. This is going to community support. This is going to belong to the community. Uh we're going belong to the community. Uh we're going belong to the community. Uh we're going to put it on the Microsoft store and ask to put it on the Microsoft store and ask to put it on the Microsoft store and ask 10 bucks for it, you know, and that 10 bucks for it, you know, and that 10 bucks for it, you know, and that essentially gives you a stake in that essentially gives you a stake in that essentially gives you a stake in that community and and best effort support community and and best effort support community and and best effort support and some product direction input. And and some product direction input. And and some product direction input. And you know, I thought maybe a couple you know, I thought maybe a couple you know, I thought maybe a couple hundred people would buy it. And hundred people would buy it. And hundred people would buy it. And within a few months, uh, several within a few months, uh, several within a few months, uh, several thousand people had bought it. And it thousand people had bought it. And it thousand people had bought it. And it was a legit thing. It was real. I paid was a legit thing. It was real. I paid was a legit thing. It was real. I paid Oh, appreciate it. Um, and we were all Oh, appreciate it. Um, and we were all Oh, appreciate it. Um, and we were all able to basically make it a part-time able to basically make it a part-time able to basically make it a part-time job. And then eventually, uh, it it grew job. And then eventually, uh, it it grew job. And then eventually, uh, it it grew enough, it really helped, uh, that we enough, it really helped, uh, that we enough, it really helped, uh, that we were featured in the Windows Terminal were featured in the Windows Terminal were featured in the Windows Terminal Sizzle reel. Uh, and I was invited to Sizzle reel. Uh, and I was invited to Sizzle reel. Uh, and I was invited to build and I was able to slowly stop

build and I was able to slowly stop build and I was able to slowly stop taking new clients and go work on this taking new clients and go work on this taking new clients and go work on this full-time. So, that was uh a really full-time. So, that was uh a really full-time. So, that was uh a really really awesome journey. That's so cool. really awesome journey. That's so cool. really awesome journey. That's so cool. Now, this will sound like a like a Now, this will sound like a like a Now, this will sound like a like a cheesy call back, but it's a legitimate cheesy call back, but it's a legitimate cheesy call back, but it's a legitimate one. uh in the list of reasons why one one. uh in the list of reasons why one one. uh in the list of reasons why one might want to avoid staying on an might want to avoid staying on an might want to avoid staying on an unsupported version of something is unsupported version of something is unsupported version of something is regulatory action fines and legal regulatory action fines and legal regulatory action fines and legal action. Is that just scare tactics or is action. Is that just scare tactics or is action. Is that just scare tactics or is that an actual thing? Can you get in that an actual thing? Can you get in that an actual thing? Can you get in trouble if you if you run a product or trouble if you if you run a product or trouble if you if you run a product or run a website or or or have a thing and run a website or or or have a thing and run a website or or or have a thing and you are running on unsupported stuff? you are running on unsupported stuff? you are running on unsupported stuff? like who's going to regulate you or find like who's going to regulate you or find like who's going to regulate you or find you or legally whatever you is it is it you or legally whatever you is it is it you or legally whatever you is it is it like you might get hacked and then you like you might get hacked and then you like you might get hacked and then you get sued or as a person with one foot in get sued or as a person with one foot in get sued or as a person with one foot in each uh world why is that important to each uh world why is that important to each uh world why is that important to me to stay up to up to supported me to stay up to up to supported me to stay up to up to supported versions of stuff secure versions of versions of stuff secure versions of versions of stuff secure versions of stuff yeah putting my legal hat on um stuff yeah putting my legal hat on um stuff yeah putting my legal hat on um there are a number of government there are a number of government there are a number of government regulations promagated by uh SISA that regulations promagated by uh SISA that regulations promagated by uh SISA that require uh government contractors to uh require uh government contractors to uh require uh government contractors to uh patch security vulnerabilities within a patch security vulnerabilities within a patch security vulnerabilities within a certain amount of time. Uh if you're in certain amount of time. Uh if you're in certain amount of time. Uh if you're in the insurance industry, the financial the insurance industry, the financial the insurance industry, the financial services industry, healthcare, uh there services industry, healthcare, uh there services industry, healthcare, uh there are additional requirements for um uh are additional requirements for um uh are additional requirements for um uh remediating security vulnerabilities.

remediating security vulnerabilities. remediating security vulnerabilities. Also uh you know if you're a company Also uh you know if you're a company Also uh you know if you're a company handling customer data you know handling customer data you know handling customer data you know particularly those forms of you know particularly those forms of you know particularly those forms of you know financial or health data if you are uh financial or health data if you are uh financial or health data if you are uh you know hacked in some way um and it's you know hacked in some way um and it's you know hacked in some way um and it's determined that it uh was because you determined that it uh was because you determined that it uh was because you failed to patch a piece of software that failed to patch a piece of software that failed to patch a piece of software that certainly does not look good in court. certainly does not look good in court. certainly does not look good in court. you know, that certainly contributes to you know, that certainly contributes to you know, that certainly contributes to uh a class action, you know, claim uh a class action, you know, claim uh a class action, you know, claim showing negligence. So, you negligently showing negligence. So, you negligently showing negligence. So, you negligently failed to maintain your software, left a failed to maintain your software, left a failed to maintain your software, left a high severity CVE open that was remotely high severity CVE open that was remotely high severity CVE open that was remotely exploitable. You know, that's that's you exploitable. You know, that's that's you exploitable. You know, that's that's you know how you end up right paying big know how you end up right paying big know how you end up right paying big bucks. probably not a concern for my bucks. probably not a concern for my bucks. probably not a concern for my blog, but if I was holding credit card blog, but if I was holding credit card blog, but if I was holding credit card information and I negligently left information and I negligently left information and I negligently left something unpatched and someone stole something unpatched and someone stole something unpatched and someone stole something PII, personally identifying something PII, personally identifying something PII, personally identifying information, I could get in trouble. information, I could get in trouble. information, I could get in trouble. Now, when you said SISA, you're talking Now, when you said SISA, you're talking Now, when you said SISA, you're talking about the Cyber Security and about the Cyber Security and about the Cyber Security and Infrastructure Security Agency. That's Infrastructure Security Agency. That's Infrastructure Security Agency. That's CISA.gov for for folks who may not be CISA.gov for for folks who may not be CISA.gov for for folks who may not be familiar with that acronym.

familiar with that acronym. familiar with that acronym. Yep, absolutely. and any sort of company Yep, absolutely. and any sort of company Yep, absolutely. and any sort of company that does business with the government that does business with the government that does business with the government and that's quite a lot you know those and that's quite a lot you know those and that's quite a lot you know those regulations attach um there are other regulations attach um there are other regulations attach um there are other you know regulations out of the EU uh if you know regulations out of the EU uh if you know regulations out of the EU uh if you do a lot of business in the EU or you do a lot of business in the EU or you do a lot of business in the EU or you know have subsidiary there uh and you know have subsidiary there uh and you know have subsidiary there uh and you know those regulatory uh burdens are you know those regulatory uh burdens are you know those regulatory uh burdens are real uh and strict real uh and strict real uh and strict h now I think that this idea that you're h now I think that this idea that you're h now I think that this idea that you're running that hero devs is running their running that hero devs is running their running that hero devs is running their own package repository is such a clever own package repository is such a clever own package repository is such a clever such a clever one. It's such a good such a clever one. It's such a good such a clever one. It's such a good balance between open- source which I am balance between open- source which I am balance between open- source which I am a big proponent of and you know and and a big proponent of and you know and and a big proponent of and you know and and and capitalism which uh we a system in and capitalism which uh we a system in and capitalism which uh we a system in which we exist. It seems like a pretty which we exist. It seems like a pretty which we exist. It seems like a pretty good balance to catch that long tale of good balance to catch that long tale of good balance to catch that long tale of of non-supported uh software. I wonder of non-supported uh software. I wonder of non-supported uh software. I wonder if it is going to be forever though like if it is going to be forever though like if it is going to be forever though like is it challenging? Do you run your own is it challenging? Do you run your own is it challenging? Do you run your own build servers to maintain and test these build servers to maintain and test these build servers to maintain and test these things? How do we have confidence that things? How do we have confidence that things? How do we have confidence that some super old 10-year-old version of some super old 10-year-old version of some super old 10-year-old version of something is not only been patched and something is not only been patched and something is not only been patched and fixed, but builds and runs and will will fixed, but builds and runs and will will fixed, but builds and runs and will will keep my website running? Yeah, that's a keep my website running? Yeah, that's a keep my website running? Yeah, that's a great question. So, we do run our own great question. So, we do run our own great question. So, we do run our own build systems and uh you know that could build systems and uh you know that could build systems and uh you know that could be a fun challenge around .NET because be a fun challenge around .NET because be a fun challenge around .NET because we we run those for both Linux and we we run those for both Linux and we we run those for both Linux and Windows.

Windows. Windows. And in terms of the never- ending And in terms of the never- ending And in terms of the never- ending support guarantee, uh the irony is that support guarantee, uh the irony is that support guarantee, uh the irony is that the longer these uh versions of the longer these uh versions of the longer these uh versions of open-source frameworks are uh end of open-source frameworks are uh end of open-source frameworks are uh end of life, the demand simply goes up. And life, the demand simply goes up. And life, the demand simply goes up. And really, yes, that is in really, yes, that is in really, yes, that is in counterintuitive. It's counterintuitive. counterintuitive. It's counterintuitive. counterintuitive. It's counterintuitive. But you know as uh more and more But you know as uh more and more But you know as uh more and more companies and government agencies companies and government agencies companies and government agencies institute mandatory uh internal you know institute mandatory uh internal you know institute mandatory uh internal you know CVE scanning tools um you know whether CVE scanning tools um you know whether CVE scanning tools um you know whether in CI/CD or just across their endpoints in CI/CD or just across their endpoints in CI/CD or just across their endpoints they're they're discovering these in they're they're discovering these in they're they're discovering these in production you know uh customers I talk production you know uh customers I talk production you know uh customers I talk to who are running net uh large to who are running net uh large to who are running net uh large customers tend to be running 10 to customers tend to be running 10 to customers tend to be running 10 to hundreds of uhn net applications um many hundreds of uhn net applications um many hundreds of uhn net applications um many of which you know are running on you of which you know are running on you of which you know are running on you know a single system over here or a know a single system over here or a know a single system over here or a small team over there and they just find small team over there and they just find small team over there and they just find more of these over time uh as uh these more of these over time uh as uh these more of these over time uh as uh these policies um get implemented you know policies um get implemented you know policies um get implemented you know companywide. So uh the growth on some of companywide. So uh the growth on some of companywide. So uh the growth on some of these these these uh very end of life say very end of life uh very end of life say very end of life uh very end of life say very end of life long since end of life versions of open long since end of life versions of open long since end of life versions of open source uh toolkits uh is exponential to source uh toolkits uh is exponential to source uh toolkits uh is exponential to be honest. Interesting. So like net uh be honest. Interesting. So like net uh be honest. Interesting. So like net uh which is my favorite thing uh

which is my favorite thing uh which is my favorite thing uh the even numbers to put it simply are the even numbers to put it simply are the even numbers to put it simply are long-term support. So 6 8 and 10 all long-term support. So 6 8 and 10 all long-term support. So 6 8 and 10 all have long-term support. So 6net 6 ended have long-term support. So 6net 6 ended have long-term support. So 6net 6 ended support uh November of 2024. And when support uh November of 2024. And when support uh November of 2024. And when you try to download it, there's a big you try to download it, there's a big you try to download it, there's a big red like banner. This release has red like banner. This release has red like banner. This release has reached the end of life. It is no longer reached the end of life. It is no longer reached the end of life. It is no longer supported. Go to a support release and supported. Go to a support release and supported. Go to a support release and then you can dig into their support then you can dig into their support then you can dig into their support policy and it's a big scary thing. But policy and it's a big scary thing. But policy and it's a big scary thing. But then when you get down to end of life, then when you get down to end of life, then when you get down to end of life, you're like, "Well, wait a second. I've you're like, "Well, wait a second. I've you're like, "Well, wait a second. I've got a bunch of stuff on .NET 6. I got got a bunch of stuff on .NET 6. I got got a bunch of stuff on .NET 6. I got two choices here. I could try to upgrade two choices here. I could try to upgrade two choices here. I could try to upgrade to .NET 8. I could use one of the to .NET 8. I could use one of the to .NET 8. I could use one of the migration tools or use, you know, AI or migration tools or use, you know, AI or migration tools or use, you know, AI or a migration tool. Or the new thing that a migration tool. Or the new thing that a migration tool. Or the new thing that Hero Devs is doing because it's mostly Hero Devs is doing because it's mostly Hero Devs is doing because it's mostly been JavaScript historically is .NET 6 been JavaScript historically is .NET 6 been JavaScript historically is .NET 6 neverending support. That's really cool. neverending support. That's really cool. neverending support. That's really cool. So that that would imply then that the So that that would imply then that the So that that would imply then that the next version that you would support if next version that you would support if next version that you would support if this goes well for her devs would be at this goes well for her devs would be at this goes well for her devs would be at 8 which goes out of support uh next 8 which goes out of support uh next 8 which goes out of support uh next November. So like just you know maybe November. So like just you know maybe November. So like just you know maybe not eight maybe a little bit less than not eight maybe a little bit less than not eight maybe a little bit less than two years away. Is that the intent to two years away. Is that the intent to two years away. Is that the intent to basically take those long-term supports basically take those long-term supports basically take those long-term supports and make them never ending and then uh and make them never ending and then uh and make them never ending and then uh not do anything with the standard term not do anything with the standard term not do anything with the standard term supports or are you still trying to supports or are you still trying to supports or are you still trying to figure that out? Uh the goal right now figure that out? Uh the goal right now figure that out? Uh the goal right now is to focus on the LTS version uh the is to focus on the LTS version uh the is to focus on the LTS version uh the ones that have gone uh uh end of life.

ones that have gone uh uh end of life. ones that have gone uh uh end of life. Um we are scoping the possibility of Um we are scoping the possibility of Um we are scoping the possibility of offering um our own builds of in support offering um our own builds of in support offering um our own builds of in support LTS versions so that when customers LTS versions so that when customers LTS versions so that when customers approach that end of life date they can approach that end of life date they can approach that end of life date they can simply apply that token from the simply apply that token from the simply apply that token from the customer portal and continue receiving customer portal and continue receiving customer portal and continue receiving um support post do um support post do um support post do you know but if if demand is sufficient you know but if if demand is sufficient you know but if if demand is sufficient for an STS uh version. Uh we'd certainly for an STS uh version. Uh we'd certainly for an STS uh version. Uh we'd certainly be open to that. All of our product be open to that. All of our product be open to that. All of our product catalog offerings are customer request catalog offerings are customer request catalog offerings are customer request driven. So, oh that was my next question driven. So, oh that was my next question driven. So, oh that was my next question because these are all like you're not because these are all like you're not because these are all like you're not saying I need to support JavaScript. saying I need to support JavaScript. saying I need to support JavaScript. You're saying I need to support Angular You're saying I need to support Angular You're saying I need to support Angular or Spring or whatever. But then my next or Spring or whatever. But then my next or Spring or whatever. But then my next question was what about all the question was what about all the question was what about all the libraries? What about all the libraries libraries? What about all the libraries libraries? What about all the libraries beyond that? Cuz like .NET's the beyond that? Cuz like .NET's the beyond that? Cuz like .NET's the baseclass library and node, but like baseclass library and node, but like baseclass library and node, but like what about this library or that library what about this library or that library what about this library or that library which might be small or insignificant which might be small or insignificant which might be small or insignificant even from the perspective of heroes? How even from the perspective of heroes? How even from the perspective of heroes? How would you handle something like that? So would you handle something like that? So would you handle something like that? So when a customer comes to us and and we when a customer comes to us and and we when a customer comes to us and and we perform an onboarding, you know, we perform an onboarding, you know, we perform an onboarding, you know, we obviously have the 10pole framework, but obviously have the 10pole framework, but obviously have the 10pole framework, but we ask them for what libraries they're we ask them for what libraries they're we ask them for what libraries they're dependent upon and uh we sort through dependent upon and uh we sort through dependent upon and uh we sort through those and determine uh which ones we can those and determine uh which ones we can those and determine uh which ones we can continue support uh which ones uh we continue support uh which ones uh we continue support uh which ones uh we would be unable to support. Uh however would be unable to support. Uh however would be unable to support. Uh however particularly in the particularly in the particularly in the uh JavaScript in the front-end uh

uh JavaScript in the front-end uh uh JavaScript in the front-end uh ecosystem we already support a wide ecosystem we already support a wide ecosystem we already support a wide range of those uh smaller libraries you range of those uh smaller libraries you range of those uh smaller libraries you know that um are used in a number of know that um are used in a number of know that um are used in a number of projects um across the the front end um projects um across the the front end um projects um across the the front end um ecosystem. So withnet you know we have a ecosystem. So withnet you know we have a ecosystem. So withnet you know we have a you know standard set of uh nougat you know standard set of uh nougat you know standard set of uh nougat packages uh that we support and you know packages uh that we support and you know packages uh that we support and you know we uh did some research looking at um we uh did some research looking at um we uh did some research looking at um the sport life cycle of you know the top the sport life cycle of you know the top the sport life cycle of you know the top 200 Nougat packages uh maintained by the 200 Nougat packages uh maintained by the 200 Nougat packages uh maintained by the community and uh should we have a community and uh should we have a community and uh should we have a customer come forward that that needs customer come forward that that needs customer come forward that that needs another uh Nougat package, another .NET another uh Nougat package, another .NET another uh Nougat package, another .NET library that that's not currently on our library that that's not currently on our library that that's not currently on our supported list. You know, we would go supported list. You know, we would go supported list. You know, we would go through that evaluation process. Can we through that evaluation process. Can we through that evaluation process. Can we support this? How would we support this? support this? How would we support this? support this? How would we support this? Do we fork it and maintain it Do we fork it and maintain it Do we fork it and maintain it internally? Is this uh large enough, internally? Is this uh large enough, internally? Is this uh large enough, popular enough where we can actually uh popular enough where we can actually uh popular enough where we can actually uh approach the maintainer on contract and approach the maintainer on contract and approach the maintainer on contract and have them maintain uh a branch uh for have them maintain uh a branch uh for have them maintain uh a branch uh for our customers. uh we have a wide toolkit our customers. uh we have a wide toolkit our customers. uh we have a wide toolkit uh and a number of approaches for uh and a number of approaches for uh and a number of approaches for addressing that challenge.

addressing that challenge. addressing that challenge. There is a section on the heroes website There is a section on the heroes website There is a section on the heroes website that I think like should have a bigger that I think like should have a bigger that I think like should have a bigger link because like if you go to her link because like if you go to her link because like if you go to her devs.com you click on developers and you devs.com you click on developers and you devs.com you click on developers and you click on vulnerability directory it's click on vulnerability directory it's click on vulnerability directory it's this really really good list of all the this really really good list of all the this really really good list of all the CVEes right a common vulnerability and CVEes right a common vulnerability and CVEes right a common vulnerability and exploit is what CVE stands for and you exploit is what CVE stands for and you exploit is what CVE stands for and you can go in there and say all right well I can go in there and say all right well I can go in there and say all right well I want to see critical angular or jQuery want to see critical angular or jQuery want to see critical angular or jQuery high and then it will give you this list high and then it will give you this list high and then it will give you this list of like all the vulnerabilities and then of like all the vulnerabilities and then of like all the vulnerabilities and then the part that gets really scary is the the part that gets really scary is the the part that gets really scary is the versions affected and then you can find versions affected and then you can find versions affected and then you can find out if that's a version that affects you out if that's a version that affects you out if that's a version that affects you and then whether or not you're going to and then whether or not you're going to and then whether or not you're going to be nailed because of something being out be nailed because of something being out be nailed because of something being out of uh you know out of scope because it's of uh you know out of scope because it's of uh you know out of scope because it's like oh look here's one from 2024 on net like oh look here's one from 2024 on net like oh look here's one from 2024 on net with the ASP.NET at core runtime and with the ASP.NET at core runtime and with the ASP.NET at core runtime and then here's the versions affected and then here's the versions affected and then here's the versions affected and it's like oh shoot anything over version it's like oh shoot anything over version it's like oh shoot anything over version six oh shoot version six is out of date six oh shoot version six is out of date six oh shoot version six is out of date that's what we're trying to solve and that's what we're trying to solve and that's what we're trying to solve and some of these are some of these are some of these are some of these are some of these are some of these are critical I see Apache and lucine and critical I see Apache and lucine and critical I see Apache and lucine and spring I thought this was just a really spring I thought this was just a really spring I thought this was just a really cool resource and what I thought was cool resource and what I thought was cool resource and what I thought was nice is that there's actually an RSS nice is that there's actually an RSS nice is that there's actually an RSS feed that's like you don't have to go to feed that's like you don't have to go to feed that's like you don't have to go to this website just get the feed and this website just get the feed and this website just get the feed and you're tracking the vulnerabilities you're tracking the vulnerabilities you're tracking the vulnerabilities uh right there so like kudos whoever uh right there so like kudos whoever uh right there so like kudos whoever made that page because I thought that made that page because I thought that made that page because I thought that was super helpful was super helpful was super helpful Absolutely. Um, we certainly encourage Absolutely. Um, we certainly encourage Absolutely. Um, we certainly encourage users, you know, broadly as well as our users, you know, broadly as well as our users, you know, broadly as well as our customers to be proactive about these customers to be proactive about these customers to be proactive about these CVES. We certainly notify our existing

CVES. We certainly notify our existing CVES. We certainly notify our existing customers of CVEEs and and when fixes customers of CVEEs and and when fixes customers of CVEEs and and when fixes are incoming. Um, there's also that more are incoming. Um, there's also that more are incoming. Um, there's also that more kind of responsive posture that a lot of kind of responsive posture that a lot of kind of responsive posture that a lot of customers have with those internal uh, customers have with those internal uh, customers have with those internal uh, you know, scanners and endpoint you know, scanners and endpoint you know, scanners and endpoint management tools. Um I I think uh uh management tools. Um I I think uh uh management tools. Um I I think uh uh it's you need to have a good balance it's you need to have a good balance it's you need to have a good balance where you want to be sca scanning and where you want to be sca scanning and where you want to be sca scanning and monitoring you know for things you might monitoring you know for things you might monitoring you know for things you might have missed but uh taking an active have missed but uh taking an active have missed but uh taking an active interest in interest in interest in uh critical CVEes that may affect your uh critical CVEes that may affect your uh critical CVEes that may affect your uh production systems um you know your uh production systems um you know your uh production systems um you know your bread and butter uh is certainly bread and butter uh is certainly bread and butter uh is certainly powerful. Yeah for sure. I mean, I've powerful. Yeah for sure. I mean, I've powerful. Yeah for sure. I mean, I've added Dependabot to my workflow, and added Dependabot to my workflow, and added Dependabot to my workflow, and Dependabot has been really helpful Dependabot has been really helpful Dependabot has been really helpful because I don't have a habit as a small because I don't have a habit as a small because I don't have a habit as a small a small business, you know, a small business, you know, a small business, you know, handsomeman.com. And this podcast is handsomeman.com. And this podcast is handsomeman.com. And this podcast is just me, but I'm not like looking up. just me, but I'm not like looking up. just me, but I'm not like looking up. I'm not going looking for CVES. I need I'm not going looking for CVES. I need I'm not going looking for CVES. I need the CVE to come to me. I need the the CVE to come to me. I need the the CVE to come to me. I need the security report to come to me. Uh, and security report to come to me. Uh, and security report to come to me. Uh, and then someone needs to give me a heads then someone needs to give me a heads then someone needs to give me a heads up. So, dependabot for me is like, oh, up. So, dependabot for me is like, oh, up. So, dependabot for me is like, oh, this is a thing. You aware? And the this is a thing. You aware? And the this is a thing. You aware? And the security warnings in in GitHub would security warnings in in GitHub would security warnings in in GitHub would then lead me to a solution like like a then lead me to a solution like like a then lead me to a solution like like a never-ending support contract. Yeah. And never-ending support contract. Yeah. And never-ending support contract. Yeah. And you know with our package repositories, you know with our package repositories, you know with our package repositories, you know, even if you don't monitor the you know, even if you don't monitor the you know, even if you don't monitor the vulnerability database and you know vulnerability database and you know vulnerability database and you know don't read our emails, you you know that don't read our emails, you you know that don't read our emails, you you know that because of our SLA explicitly avoid our because of our SLA explicitly avoid our because of our SLA explicitly avoid our emails. Yeah. Yeah. You know, keep

emails. Yeah. Yeah. You know, keep emails. Yeah. Yeah. You know, keep marking them as junk so they just end up marking them as junk so they just end up marking them as junk so they just end up in your junk folder every time. in your junk folder every time. in your junk folder every time. um uh because of the RSLA, you're going um uh because of the RSLA, you're going um uh because of the RSLA, you're going to get the fix, you know. Oh, okay. So, to get the fix, you know. Oh, okay. So, to get the fix, you know. Oh, okay. So, because the it's in the feed and I'm because the it's in the feed and I'm because the it's in the feed and I'm running my regular builds, I'm going to running my regular builds, I'm going to running my regular builds, I'm going to get those fixes uh pulled in from get those fixes uh pulled in from get those fixes uh pulled in from package.json or Maven or Gradle or or package.json or Maven or Gradle or or package.json or Maven or Gradle or or whatever. Exactly. Exactly. That is whatever. Exactly. Exactly. That is whatever. Exactly. Exactly. That is cool. So, have you been enjoying this? cool. So, have you been enjoying this? cool. So, have you been enjoying this? This sounds like fun. Like I I like a This sounds like fun. Like I I like a This sounds like fun. Like I I like a product that just sells itself. Like I product that just sells itself. Like I product that just sells itself. Like I know this is more you and I geeking out know this is more you and I geeking out know this is more you and I geeking out on a podcast, but when I heard about on a podcast, but when I heard about on a podcast, but when I heard about this being a concept, I was like, "Oh, this being a concept, I was like, "Oh, this being a concept, I was like, "Oh, what a good idea." And when you heard what a good idea." And when you heard what a good idea." And when you heard about it, you must have felt the same about it, you must have felt the same about it, you must have felt the same way, especially as a Linux person way, especially as a Linux person way, especially as a Linux person because Linux is all about packages. because Linux is all about packages. because Linux is all about packages. Yeah. Yeah. It has been uh a very fun Yeah. Yeah. It has been uh a very fun Yeah. Yeah. It has been uh a very fun challenge because you know especially challenge because you know especially challenge because you know especially aiming for that drop in you know aiming for that drop in you know aiming for that drop in you know replacement um you know we're packaging replacement um you know we're packaging replacement um you know we're packaging for Windows uh a couple flavors of Linux for Windows uh a couple flavors of Linux for Windows uh a couple flavors of Linux you know we go and we look at the Linux you know we go and we look at the Linux you know we go and we look at the Linux packages and they're packaged slightly packages and they're packaged slightly packages and they're packaged slightly different for slightly different Linux different for slightly different Linux different for slightly different Linux distributions distributions distributions um and we've got to match our builds you um and we've got to match our builds you um and we've got to match our builds you know uh bit forbit so that everything know uh bit forbit so that everything know uh bit forbit so that everything lands in place um when you uh add our lands in place um when you uh add our lands in place um when you uh add our apt repo or our RPM repo and eventually apt repo or our RPM repo and eventually apt repo or our RPM repo and eventually uh our Windgget repo to uh your your

uh our Windgget repo to uh your your uh our Windgget repo to uh your your systems. Oh, Windgate repo as well. systems. Oh, Windgate repo as well. systems. Oh, Windgate repo as well. That's great. I love Windgget. I know That's great. I love Windgget. I know That's great. I love Windgget. I know that you're a Linux person and I'm a that you're a Linux person and I'm a that you're a Linux person and I'm a Windows person, but just like we we had Windows person, but just like we we had Windows person, but just like we we had been talking about this for gosh 15 been talking about this for gosh 15 been talking about this for gosh 15 years like when we when aptget for years like when we when aptget for years like when we when aptget for Windows was going to happen and Windgate Windows was going to happen and Windgate Windows was going to happen and Windgate has been such a joy. So it's great that has been such a joy. So it's great that has been such a joy. So it's great that you'll have a Wind source uh as as a you'll have a Wind source uh as as a you'll have a Wind source uh as as a part of heroes one day. Yeah, part of heroes one day. Yeah, part of heroes one day. Yeah, absolutely. Um because right now the you absolutely. Um because right now the you absolutely. Um because right now the you know Windows deployment is fairly manual know Windows deployment is fairly manual know Windows deployment is fairly manual you know it it still requires uh you know it it still requires uh you know it it still requires uh downloading the binary and and deploying downloading the binary and and deploying downloading the binary and and deploying it using endpoint management tooling it using endpoint management tooling it using endpoint management tooling whether that's like legacy in tune um or whether that's like legacy in tune um or whether that's like legacy in tune um or the variety of thirdparty products that the variety of thirdparty products that the variety of thirdparty products that that are available at the market but that are available at the market but that are available at the market but moderate in tune has windit integration moderate in tune has windit integration moderate in tune has windit integration so uh that'll make it much easier to so uh that'll make it much easier to so uh that'll make it much easier to deploy the latest versions of either the deploy the latest versions of either the deploy the latest versions of either the SDK to your uh developers or the runtime SDK to your uh developers or the runtime SDK to your uh developers or the runtime to your endpoints to your endpoints to your endpoints um uh through the Windgate repository.

um uh through the Windgate repository. um uh through the Windgate repository. Well, I am still uh even though I love Well, I am still uh even though I love Well, I am still uh even though I love you, I'm still going to keep promoting you, I'm still going to keep promoting you, I'm still going to keep promoting that people upgrade because migration that people upgrade because migration that people upgrade because migration tools are great. You've seen me do live tools are great. You've seen me do live tools are great. You've seen me do live migrations. We've got AI based migrations. We've got AI based migrations. We've got AI based migrations, but you know, sometimes it's migrations, but you know, sometimes it's migrations, but you know, sometimes it's just a hassle to upgrade something to just a hassle to upgrade something to just a hassle to upgrade something to the latest and you don't have the the latest and you don't have the the latest and you don't have the person, you don't have the team, you person, you don't have the team, you person, you don't have the team, you know, if you've got an existing system know, if you've got an existing system know, if you've got an existing system and it works just fine and you just need and it works just fine and you just need and it works just fine and you just need it to keep working just fine and you it to keep working just fine and you it to keep working just fine and you don't want to go and upset it by don't want to go and upset it by don't want to go and upset it by upgrading or migrating to the latest, a upgrading or migrating to the latest, a upgrading or migrating to the latest, a a never-ending support solution is a a never-ending support solution is a a never-ending support solution is a really clever idea and I love that it's really clever idea and I love that it's really clever idea and I love that it's a drop in replacement. So, we got this. a drop in replacement. So, we got this. a drop in replacement. So, we got this. I'm looking here on products. We've got I'm looking here on products. We've got I'm looking here on products. We've got Angular and we've got Spring and we got Angular and we've got Spring and we got Angular and we've got Spring and we got .NET 6 and we got Bootstrap. What a cool .NET 6 and we got Bootstrap. What a cool .NET 6 and we got Bootstrap. What a cool uh what a cool idea. I've just upgraded uh what a cool idea. I've just upgraded uh what a cool idea. I've just upgraded one of my sites to .NET 8, but I still one of my sites to .NET 8, but I still one of my sites to .NET 8, but I still have some .NET 6 sites that are out have some .NET 6 sites that are out have some .NET 6 sites that are out there and I'm dreading that. I guess there and I'm dreading that. I guess there and I'm dreading that. I guess they've been out of date for at least a they've been out of date for at least a they've been out of date for at least a half a year now. I I hopefully won't get half a year now. I I hopefully won't get half a year now. I I hopefully won't get in trouble at some point. I'm looking at in trouble at some point. I'm looking at in trouble at some point. I'm looking at the NES site here and there's actually a the NES site here and there's actually a the NES site here and there's actually a countdown. Heroes is threatening me that countdown. Heroes is threatening me that countdown. Heroes is threatening me that I've been out of out of support for hund I've been out of out of support for hund I've been out of out of support for hund and something days. I need to get I need and something days. I need to get I need and something days. I need to get I need to get to to going on that. So, we can to get to to going on that. So, we can to get to to going on that. So, we can check that out at herbs.com. And where check that out at herbs.com. And where check that out at herbs.com. And where can folks find you online?

can folks find you online? can folks find you online? I am um online on GitHub uh sir I am um online on GitHub uh sir I am um online on GitHub uh sir Redbeard. I am still on Twitter trying Redbeard. I am still on Twitter trying Redbeard. I am still on Twitter trying to make that work. Unix terminal. Um you to make that work. Unix terminal. Um you to make that work. Unix terminal. Um you can join uh the WSL community telegram. can join uh the WSL community telegram. can join uh the WSL community telegram. It's wsl.com community for that link. Uh It's wsl.com community for that link. Uh It's wsl.com community for that link. Uh where we talk about WSL, you know, where we talk about WSL, you know, where we talk about WSL, you know, provide support if that's something provide support if that's something provide support if that's something you're interested in exploring. Um also you're interested in exploring. Um also you're interested in exploring. Um also feel free to add me on LinkedIn. feel free to add me on LinkedIn. feel free to add me on LinkedIn. Very cool. out there. Yeah. Well, thank Very cool. out there. Yeah. Well, thank Very cool. out there. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Hayden Barnes. I learned you so much, Hayden Barnes. I learned you so much, Hayden Barnes. I learned something today. I did not know that something today. I did not know that something today. I did not know that there was never ending support for so there was never ending support for so there was never ending support for so many open source projects. I think it's many open source projects. I think it's many open source projects. I think it's a pretty interesting solution. You can a pretty interesting solution. You can a pretty interesting solution. You can check them out at check them out at check them out at heroeds.com. Learn all about heroeds.com. Learn all about heroeds.com. Learn all about never-ending support. And then Hayden is never-ending support. And then Hayden is never-ending support. And then Hayden is spelled H A Y T-N Barnes. Follow him on spelled H A Y T-N Barnes. Follow him on spelled H A Y T-N Barnes. Follow him on LinkedIn and all over social. Thanks so LinkedIn and all over social. Thanks so LinkedIn and all over social. Thanks so much for spending time with me today. much for spending time with me today. much for spending time with me today. Thanks for the time, Scott. I really Thanks for the time, Scott. I really Thanks for the time, Scott. I really appreciate it. This has been another appreciate it. This has been another appreciate it. This has been another episode of Pencil Minutes, and we'll see episode of Pencil Minutes, and we'll see episode of Pencil Minutes, and we'll see you again next week. you again next week. you again next week. [Music]