Is it always DNS? with DNSimple's Anthony Eden

hi I'm Scott hansome and this is another hi I'm Scott hansome and this is another episode of Hansel minutes today I'm episode of Hansel minutes today I'm episode of Hansel minutes today I'm chatting with Anthony Eden the Creator chatting with Anthony Eden the Creator chatting with Anthony Eden the Creator and founder of DN simple is it DN simple and founder of DN simple is it DN simple and founder of DN simple is it DN simple or DNS simple it is DN simple although or DNS simple it is DN simple although or DNS simple it is DN simple although I've heard people say it in all kinds of I've heard people say it in all kinds of I've heard people say it in all kinds of ways and uh I'm happy to have them as ways and uh I'm happy to have them as ways and uh I'm happy to have them as customers regardless of how they say customers regardless of how they say customers regardless of how they say name I feel like when you started it the name I feel like when you started it the name I feel like when you started it the first thing you would have done would first thing you would have done would first thing you would have done would have been uh to register not just DN have been uh to register not just DN have been uh to register not just DN simple but also DNS simple with the simple but also DNS simple with the simple but also DNS simple with the extra s and then redirect it to extra s and then redirect it to extra s and then redirect it to canonicalize your own URL yeah we would canonicalize your own URL yeah we would canonicalize your own URL yeah we would have loved to have registered it from have loved to have registered it from have loved to have registered it from day one but in fact somebody else day one but in fact somebody else day one but in fact somebody else already owned it so we went through the already owned it so we went through the already owned it so we went through the process years later to actually buy dnss process years later to actually buy dnss process years later to actually buy dnss simple.com from uh somebody who sold it simple.com from uh somebody who sold it simple.com from uh somebody who sold it to us that is actually kind of awesome to us that is actually kind of awesome to us that is actually kind of awesome it's always DNS it's always DNS always it's always DNS it's always DNS always it's always DNS it's always DNS always so you've been on the web since the so you've been on the web since the so you've been on the web since the early mid 90s you've been a web person early mid 90s you've been a web person early mid 90s you've been a web person since the web began and DNS is since the web began and DNS is since the web began and DNS is fundamentally at the root of everything fundamentally at the root of everything fundamentally at the root of everything we joke about how it's always DNS but it we joke about how it's always DNS but it we joke about how it's always DNS but it always is and back in the day in the always is and back in the day in the always is and back in the day in the early 9s I think when I registered early 9s I think when I registered early 9s I think when I registered hansel. comom it was hard You' call hansel. comom it was hard You' call hansel. comom it was hard You' call Network Solutions and you'd be you'd Network Solutions and you'd be you'd Network Solutions and you'd be you'd have to fax people and talk to a human have to fax people and talk to a human have to fax people and talk to a human to get a domain name how did you get to get a domain name how did you get to get a domain name how did you get into the business how did you think for into the business how did you think for into the business how did you think for 14 15 years ago that that DNS was 14 15 years ago that that DNS was 14 15 years ago that that DNS was something that needed to be solved and something that needed to be solved and something that needed to be solved and that DN simple could do it it was pure that DN simple could do it it was pure that DN simple could do it it was pure chance I at the time it was 98 uh so chance I at the time it was 98 uh so chance I at the time it was 98 uh so late 1998 I was living in France kind of late 1998 I was living in France kind of late 1998 I was living in France kind of failing at the work that I was doing

failing at the work that I was doing failing at the work that I was doing trying to build a uh CMS system for a trying to build a uh CMS system for a trying to build a uh CMS system for a school over there and it wasn't really school over there and it wasn't really school over there and it wasn't really working out and uh decided to head back working out and uh decided to head back working out and uh decided to head back to the US um got back to the US and was to the US um got back to the US and was to the US um got back to the US and was looking for work and I received somebody looking for work and I received somebody looking for work and I received somebody basically a job offer from somebody basically a job offer from somebody basically a job offer from somebody who's looking for a Java programmer but who's looking for a Java programmer but who's looking for a Java programmer but in order to take the job I had to be in order to take the job I had to be in order to take the job I had to be able to help him become accredited this able to help him become accredited this able to help him become accredited this was back in 99 this was when uh when the was back in 99 this was when uh when the was back in 99 this was when uh when the dotc domain was de was basically dotc domain was de was basically dotc domain was de was basically deregulated and so he said I I need your deregulated and so he said I I need your deregulated and so he said I I need your help we have five days to do this and I help we have five days to do this and I help we have five days to do this and I said no problem we can do this I had to said no problem we can do this I had to said no problem we can do this I had to do the technical implementation so in 5 do the technical implementation so in 5 do the technical implementation so in 5 days I built a swing application where I days I built a swing application where I days I built a swing application where I could run Python scripts written in could run Python scripts written in could run Python scripts written in jython to control the communications and jython to control the communications and jython to control the communications and run through the test with verisign run through the test with verisign run through the test with verisign because it it was Network Solutions because it it was Network Solutions because it it was Network Solutions verisign already at that point I believe verisign already at that point I believe verisign already at that point I believe um and it was completely ridiculous it um and it was completely ridiculous it um and it was completely ridiculous it was such an overblown solution but we was such an overblown solution but we was such an overblown solution but we managed to actually get accredited in managed to actually get accredited in managed to actually get accredited in that very short timeline and he's like that very short timeline and he's like that very short timeline and he's like this is awesome you need to stay and this is awesome you need to stay and this is awesome you need to stay and work for me uh come be the CTO and this work for me uh come be the CTO and this work for me uh come be the CTO and this was at a company called Signature was at a company called Signature was at a company called Signature domains and we were one of the first domains and we were one of the first domains and we were one of the first seven domain registrars during the seven domain registrars during the seven domain registrars during the deregulation in deregulation in deregulation in 1999 wow so you ended up being the lead 1999 wow so you ended up being the lead 1999 wow so you ended up being the lead Dev and the CTO if you look at your Dev and the CTO if you look at your Dev and the CTO if you look at your LinkedIn you've got a bunch of other

LinkedIn you've got a bunch of other LinkedIn you've got a bunch of other things on it that do do you are you things on it that do do you are you things on it that do do you are you stepping out of the DNS business and stepping out of the DNS business and stepping out of the DNS business and then back in or are all of these then back in or are all of these then back in or are all of these different holding companies for because different holding companies for because different holding companies for because there was atrion LLC and different there was atrion LLC and different there was atrion LLC and different different organizations so it's the different organizations so it's the different organizations so it's the timeline is not clear that's correct timeline is not clear that's correct timeline is not clear that's correct it's so I did the domain thing for quite it's so I did the domain thing for quite it's so I did the domain thing for quite a while in 2000 I can't remember exactly a while in 2000 I can't remember exactly a while in 2000 I can't remember exactly when I think so we went through the bu when I think so we went through the bu when I think so we went through the bu the the bubble and the burst of the doc the the bubble and the burst of the doc the the bubble and the burst of the doc com bubble and burst uh I then joined com bubble and burst uh I then joined com bubble and burst uh I then joined another company to work on uh Health another company to work on uh Health another company to work on uh Health Systems so medical device systems then Systems so medical device systems then Systems so medical device systems then came back to the domain space then I came back to the domain space then I came back to the domain space then I left that again uh went and worked um in left that again uh went and worked um in left that again uh went and worked um in a different part of the domain space so a different part of the domain space so a different part of the domain space so ended up going over to Hawaii and I ran ended up going over to Hawaii and I ran ended up going over to Hawaii and I ran the Mariana Pacific Islands top level the Mariana Pacific Islands top level the Mariana Pacific Islands top level domain for a few years so the registry domain for a few years so the registry domain for a few years so the registry and registar for that which ismp so I and registar for that which ismp so I and registar for that which ismp so I did that for a little while then I went did that for a little while then I went did that for a little while then I went and worked for a DOD contracting company and worked for a DOD contracting company and worked for a DOD contracting company and I worked for Yahoo for a little bit and I worked for Yahoo for a little bit and I worked for Yahoo for a little bit and then so I was all over the place and and then so I was all over the place and and then so I was all over the place and then uh and then I I started doing my then uh and then I I started doing my then uh and then I I started doing my own consultancy and that's what atreon own consultancy and that's what atreon own consultancy and that's what atreon was it was just me writing software and was it was just me writing software and was it was just me writing software and charging people for it um worked for charging people for it um worked for charging people for it um worked for Living Social during the Living Social Living Social during the Living Social Living Social during the Living Social hey days uh as part of the crew there hey days uh as part of the crew there hey days uh as part of the crew there writing Ruby writing closure doing all writing Ruby writing closure doing all writing Ruby writing closure doing all kinds of fun things there all the while kinds of fun things there all the while kinds of fun things there all the while running DN simple so I actually had the running DN simple so I actually had the running DN simple so I actually had the full-time job in the beginning working full-time job in the beginning working full-time job in the beginning working for Living Social while I was running DN for Living Social while I was running DN for Living Social while I was running DN simple and then when DN simple finally simple and then when DN simple finally simple and then when DN simple finally grew enough where it could sustain me grew enough where it could sustain me grew enough where it could sustain me then I left that job and started working then I left that job and started working then I left that job and started working on DN simple full-time and that was on DN simple full-time and that was on DN simple full-time and that was about I'd say 2012

about I'd say 2012 about I'd say 2012 2013 okay so check this out this will be 2013 okay so check this out this will be 2013 okay so check this out this will be a funny way to to transition I'm looking a funny way to to transition I'm looking a funny way to to transition I'm looking at an email from my wife uh in June of at an email from my wife uh in June of at an email from my wife uh in June of 2011 2011 2011 and she has a screenshot of our credit and she has a screenshot of our credit and she has a screenshot of our credit card and she says there are card and she says there are card and she says there are 23 draws meaning debits from these guys 23 draws meaning debits from these guys 23 draws meaning debits from these guys $18 for $8.50 and five for $8 who is $18 for $8.50 and five for $8 who is $18 for $8.50 and five for $8 who is Dian Dian Dian simple that just shows you how long you simple that just shows you how long you simple that just shows you how long you were we I launched Dean simple in July were we I launched Dean simple in July were we I launched Dean simple in July of 2010 after having worked on it for of 2010 after having worked on it for of 2010 after having worked on it for three months so the first line of code three months so the first line of code three months so the first line of code was written April 1st 2010 and it was was written April 1st 2010 and it was was written April 1st 2010 and it was launched mid to late July 2010 and you launched mid to late July 2010 and you launched mid to late July 2010 and you were already on it and getting build were already on it and getting build were already on it and getting build repeatedly by 2011 that's pretty cool repeatedly by 2011 that's pretty cool repeatedly by 2011 that's pretty cool yeah so my that that means that I was yeah so my that that means that I was yeah so my that that means that I was probably I don't know not single-digit probably I don't know not single-digit probably I don't know not single-digit customers but first definitely the first customers but first definitely the first customers but first definitely the first couple of hundred people I was right couple of hundred people I was right couple of hundred people I was right there um because it was simple yes and there um because it was simple yes and there um because it was simple yes and this is not a you know I don't do this is not a you know I don't do this is not a you know I don't do sponsored shows it's not a sponsored sponsored shows it's not a sponsored sponsored shows it's not a sponsored show but I've known you now you know as show but I've known you now you know as show but I've known you now you know as a fan of yours on the internet for 15 a fan of yours on the internet for 15 a fan of yours on the internet for 15 years uh I had tried to you I think we years uh I had tried to you I think we years uh I had tried to you I think we were all anti-g GoDaddy at the point were all anti-g GoDaddy at the point were all anti-g GoDaddy at the point like there were a b there were just a like there were a b there were just a like there were a b there were just a lot of really crap places to keep your lot of really crap places to keep your lot of really crap places to keep your domains and it was incredibly tedious to domains and it was incredibly tedious to domains and it was incredibly tedious to Simply add a record and as we started Simply add a record and as we started Simply add a record and as we started moving towards the cloud years later you

moving towards the cloud years later you moving towards the cloud years later you want to add a text record you want to want to add a text record you want to want to add a text record you want to add a URL redirector uh everyone was add a URL redirector uh everyone was add a URL redirector uh everyone was complicated except DN simple and that's complicated except DN simple and that's complicated except DN simple and that's why I was like oh I'm in and I remember why I was like oh I'm in and I remember why I was like oh I'm in and I remember like the moving everything over and the like the moving everything over and the like the moving everything over and the the collaborating and the consolidating the collaborating and the consolidating the collaborating and the consolidating and I'm looking at my account now and I and I'm looking at my account now and I and I'm looking at my account now and I have like 46 41 registered domains and have like 46 41 registered domains and have like 46 41 registered domains and 47 zones uh I I got down from 50 because 47 zones uh I I got down from 50 because 47 zones uh I I got down from 50 because keep in mind that every domain that I've keep in mind that every domain that I've keep in mind that every domain that I've registered with you is a startup idea registered with you is a startup idea registered with you is a startup idea that I failed to uh to ship so there's that I failed to uh to ship so there's that I failed to uh to ship so there's also that you are a a living Monument to also that you are a a living Monument to also that you are a a living Monument to my own failure as a startup founder well my own failure as a startup founder well my own failure as a startup founder well I'm also a living Monument to my own I'm also a living Monument to my own I'm also a living Monument to my own failure as well for other types of failure as well for other types of failure as well for other types of startups because I've got I think 150 startups because I've got I think 150 startups because I've got I think 150 domain in my account any one of them at domain in my account any one of them at domain in my account any one of them at any point could be a thing it's it could any point could be a thing it's it could any point could be a thing it's it could be it could be huge I've got and then of be it could be huge I've got and then of be it could be huge I've got and then of course you have variants of that one course you have variants of that one course you have variants of that one name because just having the do com name because just having the do com name because just having the do com isn't enough so yeah it's kind of funny isn't enough so yeah it's kind of funny isn't enough so yeah it's kind of funny it's people collect domains and it's the it's people collect domains and it's the it's people collect domains and it's the graveyard of ideas right like that is graveyard of ideas right like that is graveyard of ideas right like that is totally what happens to many of us totally what happens to many of us totally what happens to many of us especially creative types software especially creative types software especially creative types software developers or designers or or developers or designers or or developers or designers or or entrepreneurial types it's just you entrepreneurial types it's just you entrepreneurial types it's just you build up this portfolio of domains um build up this portfolio of domains um build up this portfolio of domains um which funny enough is the reason that which funny enough is the reason that which funny enough is the reason that the very first business that I worked the very first business that I worked the very first business that I worked for that I stopped working for him for that I stopped working for him for that I stopped working for him because he left the registar business because he left the registar business because he left the registar business because he had a domain portfolio of because he had a domain portfolio of because he had a domain portfolio of like 30,000 domains and he and instead like 30,000 domains and he and instead like 30,000 domains and he and instead focused on his domain portfolio rather focused on his domain portfolio rather focused on his domain portfolio rather than running a registar oh my than running a registar oh my than running a registar oh my goodness um you know I I I wonder I've goodness um you know I I I wonder I've goodness um you know I I I wonder I've got a bunch of do I have this one I have

got a bunch of do I have this one I have got a bunch of do I have this one I have a bunch of vanity domains that are like a bunch of vanity domains that are like a bunch of vanity domains that are like redirects to stuff like I have a YouTube redirects to stuff like I have a YouTube redirects to stuff like I have a YouTube channel called computer stuff they channel called computer stuff they channel called computer stuff they didn't teach you and people would um didn't teach you and people would um didn't teach you and people would um keep telling me that I uh I did really keep telling me that I uh I did really keep telling me that I uh I did really register it there and it turns out I register it there and it turns out I register it there and it turns out I have computer stuff they didn't teach have computer stuff they didn't teach have computer stuff they didn't teach you with two TS didn't and teach and I you with two TS didn't and teach and I you with two TS didn't and teach and I also have the misspelling one with the also have the misspelling one with the also have the misspelling one with the single T right um I I wonder sometimes single T right um I I wonder sometimes single T right um I I wonder sometimes if people over index on the misspellings if people over index on the misspellings if people over index on the misspellings and they think that it's going to be and they think that it's going to be and they think that it's going to be important to have every single variant I important to have every single variant I important to have every single variant I wonder if like Microsoft has 20 wonder if like Microsoft has 20 wonder if like Microsoft has 20 different versions of oh undoubtedly different versions of oh undoubtedly different versions of oh undoubtedly just in case somebody types it wrong just in case somebody types it wrong just in case somebody types it wrong undoubtedly I if I'd be surprised if undoubtedly I if I'd be surprised if undoubtedly I if I'd be surprised if Microsoft didn't own Microsoft the O's Microsoft didn't own Microsoft the O's Microsoft didn't own Microsoft the O's were were were zeros oh yeah and there's the whole um zeros oh yeah and there's the whole um zeros oh yeah and there's the whole um and then the UTM code the UTM versions and then the UTM code the UTM versions and then the UTM code the UTM versions of it Turkish eyes steric uh yeah every of it Turkish eyes steric uh yeah every of it Turkish eyes steric uh yeah every possible version there's someone in possible version there's someone in possible version there's someone in charge of that that seems like a big charge of that that seems like a big charge of that that seems like a big problem with DNS in general well I mean problem with DNS in general well I mean problem with DNS in general well I mean when you think about it it's it's the when you think about it it's it's the when you think about it it's it's the the DNS system was designed in a time a the DNS system was designed in a time a the DNS system was designed in a time a gentler time when people weren't so gentler time when people weren't so gentler time when people weren't so worried about other people doing bad worried about other people doing bad worried about other people doing bad things other than as jokes right I mean things other than as jokes right I mean things other than as jokes right I mean we're talking about a protocol that was we're talking about a protocol that was we're talking about a protocol that was developed in the 80s and the internet developed in the 80s and the internet developed in the 80s and the internet was was the web still was just a a gleam was was the web still was just a a gleam was was the web still was just a a gleam in someone's eye right that wasn't even in someone's eye right that wasn't even in someone's eye right that wasn't even going to be a thing yet um sir Tim going to be a thing yet um sir Tim going to be a thing yet um sir Tim burner Lee he he probably did he may burner Lee he he probably did he may burner Lee he he probably did he may have been thinking about it then but I'm have been thinking about it then but I'm have been thinking about it then but I'm not even sure not even sure not even sure and it has withstood the test of time and it has withstood the test of time and it has withstood the test of time but not without the pains along the way but not without the pains along the way but not without the pains along the way um and all kind and not just from the

um and all kind and not just from the um and all kind and not just from the the the types of attacks we're talking the the types of attacks we're talking the the types of attacks we're talking about where they have letter variations about where they have letter variations about where they have letter variations but also the operational side of it DNS but also the operational side of it DNS but also the operational side of it DNS has long been a vector of of dods attack has long been a vector of of dods attack has long been a vector of of dods attack because it everybody has to have it it's because it everybody has to have it it's because it everybody has to have it it's a protocol that has to be underlying a protocol that has to be underlying a protocol that has to be underlying pretty much everything so it's one of pretty much everything so it's one of pretty much everything so it's one of those protocols that gets attacked those protocols that gets attacked those protocols that gets attacked pretty regularly in all kinds of pretty regularly in all kinds of pretty regularly in all kinds of different fun ways um I I was thinking different fun ways um I I was thinking different fun ways um I I was thinking about uh Microsoft who I work for about uh Microsoft who I work for about uh Microsoft who I work for Microsoft to my day job so for Microsoft to my day job so for Microsoft to my day job so for disclosure uh recently is starting to disclosure uh recently is starting to disclosure uh recently is starting to change all of their Cloud stuff tot change all of their Cloud stuff tot change all of their Cloud stuff tot Microsoft they have Microsoft as a TLD Microsoft they have Microsoft as a TLD Microsoft they have Microsoft as a TLD which is crazy a top level domain uh and which is crazy a top level domain uh and which is crazy a top level domain uh and they they are saying that uh that's more they they are saying that uh that's more they they are saying that uh that's more secure so like whatever. cloud. secure so like whatever. cloud. secure so like whatever. cloud. Microsoft or cloud. Microsoft why why is Microsoft or cloud. Microsoft why why is Microsoft or cloud. Microsoft why why is that the case why do they believe that that the case why do they believe that that the case why do they believe that why is dot not fine for everyone why do why is dot not fine for everyone why do why is dot not fine for everyone why do we need a ninja and a Microsoft well I we need a ninja and a Microsoft well I we need a ninja and a Microsoft well I think Microsoft for the obvious brand think Microsoft for the obvious brand think Microsoft for the obvious brand reasons is quite interesting but I think reasons is quite interesting but I think reasons is quite interesting but I think from the security perspective they from the security perspective they from the security perspective they believe that they can run the name and believe that they can run the name and believe that they can run the name and control the registry and essentially for control the registry and essentially for control the registry and essentially for them that means there's one less point them that means there's one less point them that means there's one less point that somebody can attack that is out of that somebody can attack that is out of that somebody can attack that is out of their control because they they can't their control because they they can't their control because they they can't control the namespace if somebody were control the namespace if somebody were control the namespace if somebody were to find a vector to attack it or any to find a vector to attack it or any to find a vector to attack it or any other one net whatever it might be they other one net whatever it might be they other one net whatever it might be they would be down just like everybody else would be down just like everybody else would be down just like everybody else but at least in the case of Microsoft but at least in the case of Microsoft but at least in the case of Microsoft they have more control over it so that's they have more control over it so that's they have more control over it so that's probably why they're saying it's more probably why they're saying it's more probably why they're saying it's more secure they also might be able to put

secure they also might be able to put secure they also might be able to put rules in place starting at that top rules in place starting at that top rules in place starting at that top level domain requirements for example level domain requirements for example level domain requirements for example and they did this I think it wasapp so and they did this I think it wasapp so and they did this I think it wasapp so Google did this with apppp andev they Google did this with apppp andev they Google did this with apppp andev they basically turned on the htst I think basically turned on the htst I think basically turned on the htst I think it's hsts or hsts yeah they turn that on it's hsts or hsts yeah they turn that on it's hsts or hsts yeah they turn that on by default and required everything to by default and required everything to by default and required everything to have uh to have secure connections so have uh to have secure connections so have uh to have secure connections so that's an example of when owning the the that's an example of when owning the the that's an example of when owning the the TLD gives you the ability to implement TLD gives you the ability to implement TLD gives you the ability to implement things you couldn't otherwise yeah hsts things you couldn't otherwise yeah hsts things you couldn't otherwise yeah hsts HTTP strict Transport Security it's like HTTP strict Transport Security it's like HTTP strict Transport Security it's like a redirect before like once it's a redirect before like once it's a redirect before like once it's happened once they don't even redirect happened once they don't even redirect happened once they don't even redirect you at the at the client level you can't you at the at the client level you can't you at the at the client level you can't HTTP your way anywhere anymore that is a HTTP your way anywhere anymore that is a HTTP your way anywhere anymore that is a secure place from now on it's a huge secure place from now on it's a huge secure place from now on it's a huge hassle when you're doing Local Host hassle when you're doing Local Host hassle when you're doing Local Host development and you get uh you know development and you get uh you know development and you get uh you know redirected over to an hsts yeah so they redirected over to an hsts yeah so they redirected over to an hsts yeah so they they switched that to to dot they switched that to to dot they switched that to to dot Microsoft you all have.org you can I Microsoft you all have.org you can I Microsoft you all have.org you can I have up some doos and some have up some doos and some have up some doos and some docos yep I'm looking here at my 50 docos yep I'm looking here at my 50 docos yep I'm looking here at my 50 domains and I'm thinking domains and I'm thinking domains and I'm thinking about could I lose them could they be about could I lose them could they be about could I lose them could they be attacked you know how people can steal attacked you know how people can steal attacked you know how people can steal your uh your sim cards we hear about your uh your sim cards we hear about your uh your sim cards we hear about people swapping a a a a a phone number people swapping a a a a a phone number people swapping a a a a a phone number out from underneath someone when I out from underneath someone when I out from underneath someone when I register with you or with someone else register with you or with someone else register with you or with someone else how do I know that that's going to be how do I know that that's going to be how do I know that that's going to be mine and that it can't be stolen because mine and that it can't be stolen because mine and that it can't be stolen because like Hanselman docomo's email going back 20 years yeah

docomo's email going back 20 years yeah so so let's think about the ways I mean so so let's think about the ways I mean so so let's think about the ways I mean Sim swapping funny you should bring that Sim swapping funny you should bring that Sim swapping funny you should bring that up is one of the attack vectors for up is one of the attack vectors for up is one of the attack vectors for getting around two Factor off with getting around two Factor off with getting around two Factor off with SMS there's a reason why we don't offer SMS there's a reason why we don't offer SMS there's a reason why we don't offer two Factor off with SMS while we offer two Factor off with SMS while we offer two Factor off with SMS while we offer instead with Hardware keys or with o uh instead with Hardware keys or with o uh instead with Hardware keys or with o uh the one-time passwords right because the one-time passwords right because the one-time passwords right because we're trying to make it so one we give we're trying to make it so one we give we're trying to make it so one we give you the tools to protect yourself and you the tools to protect yourself and you the tools to protect yourself and that's the starting point the other that's the starting point the other that's the starting point the other thing is is that you have to be with thing is is that you have to be with thing is is that you have to be with companies that you trust are not going companies that you trust are not going companies that you trust are not going to be socially engineered social to be socially engineered social to be socially engineered social engineering is probably the number one engineering is probably the number one engineering is probably the number one way that a lot of these take over way that a lot of these take over way that a lot of these take over attacks occur granted there are other attacks occur granted there are other attacks occur granted there are other unique and fun ways which we've seen unique and fun ways which we've seen unique and fun ways which we've seen recently that come out but truthfully if recently that come out but truthfully if recently that come out but truthfully if I'm going on a oneoff if somebody were I'm going on a oneoff if somebody were I'm going on a oneoff if somebody were to attack one off and they wanted your to attack one off and they wanted your to attack one off and they wanted your domain particularly most likely they try domain particularly most likely they try domain particularly most likely they try to social engineer their way into it to to social engineer their way into it to to social engineer their way into it to Pro to try to prove they're you and so I Pro to try to prove they're you and so I Pro to try to prove they're you and so I think that being with companies that think that being with companies that think that being with companies that have pretty strict policies against have pretty strict policies against have pretty strict policies against taking action on your behalf is a good taking action on your behalf is a good taking action on your behalf is a good starting point for ensuring that your starting point for ensuring that your starting point for ensuring that your stuff remains safe it's also just paying stuff remains safe it's also just paying stuff remains safe it's also just paying attention to it making sure that it's attention to it making sure that it's attention to it making sure that it's being renewed ideally automatically being renewed ideally automatically being renewed ideally automatically every year and potentially if it really every year and potentially if it really every year and potentially if it really matters renewing it for multiple years matters renewing it for multiple years matters renewing it for multiple years right that's something that you could do right that's something that you could do right that's something that you could do as well so there's a lot of ways to as well so there's a lot of ways to as well so there's a lot of ways to protect it it's really comes down to one protect it it's really comes down to one protect it it's really comes down to one personal security and to trust in the personal security and to trust in the personal security and to trust in the security of the entity that you're security of the entity that you're security of the entity that you're buying and managing your domains through buying and managing your domains through buying and managing your domains through when you when you created this uh there

when you when you created this uh there when you when you created this uh there were a number of like there are still a were a number of like there are still a were a number of like there are still a number of like small boutique DNS number of like small boutique DNS number of like small boutique DNS companies that are well known what makes companies that are well known what makes companies that are well known what makes those Boutique entities that are not you those Boutique entities that are not you those Boutique entities that are not you know Google domains or GoDaddy uh like know Google domains or GoDaddy uh like know Google domains or GoDaddy uh like competitive for for DN simple it was competitive for for DN simple it was competitive for for DN simple it was like you had an API you had a very like you had an API you had a very like you had an API you had a very thoughtful UI like it was really easy thoughtful UI like it was really easy thoughtful UI like it was really easy for it I felt like it was a developers for it I felt like it was a developers for it I felt like it was a developers it was yes you got it it's exactly what it was yes you got it it's exactly what it was yes you got it it's exactly what it was for um and I think that for some it was for um and I think that for some it was for um and I think that for some of the other ones uh price is going to of the other ones uh price is going to of the other ones uh price is going to be something that's competitive look a be something that's competitive look a be something that's competitive look a lot of people still lot of people still lot of people still undervalue the the importance of their undervalue the the importance of their undervalue the the importance of their domains I you'll see it time and time domains I you'll see it time and time domains I you'll see it time and time again they they they'll go through a again they they they'll go through a again they they they'll go through a shady registar or a company that's not shady registar or a company that's not shady registar or a company that's not really innovating at all the domain then really innovating at all the domain then really innovating at all the domain then gets lost because they can't even access gets lost because they can't even access gets lost because they can't even access it they you know the person who manages it they you know the person who manages it they you know the person who manages it goes away and they're with a company it goes away and they're with a company it goes away and they're with a company where one person had access because that where one person had access because that where one person had access because that service didn't offer the ability for service didn't offer the ability for service didn't offer the ability for multiple people to have access that's multiple people to have access that's multiple people to have access that's pretty common and so I think people get pretty common and so I think people get pretty common and so I think people get attracted by low prices or things like attracted by low prices or things like attracted by low prices or things like that or Legacy they're just like I've that or Legacy they're just like I've that or Legacy they're just like I've always bought my thing my domain through always bought my thing my domain through always bought my thing my domain through this company I will continue buying it this company I will continue buying it this company I will continue buying it through this company right so Legacy has through this company right so Legacy has through this company right so Legacy has a big part of it as well I kind of think a big part of it as well I kind of think a big part of it as well I kind of think you have to keep evolving and keep you have to keep evolving and keep you have to keep evolving and keep looking and seeing who out there is looking and seeing who out there is looking and seeing who out there is actually continuing to make progress on actually continuing to make progress on actually continuing to make progress on the protection and the operations of the protection and the operations of the protection and the operations of domains and DNS and a lot of the small domains and DNS and a lot of the small domains and DNS and a lot of the small ones won't they they they're pretty

ones won't they they they're pretty ones won't they they they're pretty happy where they're at that's okay happy where they're at that's okay happy where they're at that's okay they're going to move really slowly the they're going to move really slowly the they're going to move really slowly the big ones will initially but then they big ones will initially but then they big ones will initially but then they also will they have a lot of different also will they have a lot of different also will they have a lot of different business models right so one of the business models right so one of the business models right so one of the things we tried to do is get in that things we tried to do is get in that things we tried to do is get in that sweet spot right there in the Middle sweet spot right there in the Middle sweet spot right there in the Middle where we could continue innovating but where we could continue innovating but where we could continue innovating but at the same time um we weren't spreading at the same time um we weren't spreading at the same time um we weren't spreading out and trying to do lots of different out and trying to do lots of different out and trying to do lots of different things and and thus running out of things and and thus running out of things and and thus running out of resources to stay focused on domains and resources to stay focused on domains and resources to stay focused on domains and DNS uh which any company that so Dean DNS uh which any company that so Dean DNS uh which any company that so Dean simple has always been funded by simple has always been funded by simple has always been funded by bootstrapping so we've never taken bootstrapping so we've never taken bootstrapping so we've never taken outside funds and a company like that outside funds and a company like that outside funds and a company like that has the opportunity to do what we've has the opportunity to do what we've has the opportunity to do what we've done which is stay the course and focus done which is stay the course and focus done which is stay the course and focus on one thing and do that one thing well on one thing and do that one thing well on one thing and do that one thing well whereas if you're VC funded you and you whereas if you're VC funded you and you whereas if you're VC funded you and you grow or you become you know you go to grow or you become you know you go to grow or you become you know you go to public trading like there the public trading like there the public trading like there the expectation is you will continue to grow expectation is you will continue to grow expectation is you will continue to grow and you can only do that by adding on and you can only do that by adding on and you can only do that by adding on more products and so that's where we see more products and so that's where we see more products and so that's where we see sort of that separation yeah if I look sort of that separation yeah if I look sort of that separation yeah if I look at some uh and I won't say their names at some uh and I won't say their names at some uh and I won't say their names but if I look some some obvious cheaper but if I look some some obvious cheaper but if I look some some obvious cheaper domain type places now it's hosting and domain type places now it's hosting and domain type places now it's hosting and email and work marketing tools and email and work marketing tools and email and work marketing tools and security and it's like they don't do security and it's like they don't do security and it's like they don't do just DNS and uh but at the same time you just DNS and uh but at the same time you just DNS and uh but at the same time you you make the point that people are kind you make the point that people are kind you make the point that people are kind of devaluing DNS they're like I just of devaluing DNS they're like I just of devaluing DNS they're like I just want to park this thing for a dollar want to park this thing for a dollar want to park this thing for a dollar yeah they don't right they just just yeah they don't right they just just yeah they don't right they just just just hold just hold on to this for me just hold just hold on to this for me just hold just hold on to this for me and I'll give you a buck uh and that and I'll give you a buck uh and that and I'll give you a buck uh and that kind of devalues what's going on behind kind of devalues what's going on behind kind of devalues what's going on behind the scenes there seem if you look at the the scenes there seem if you look at the the scenes there seem if you look at the the blog. DN simple.com your team is the blog. DN simple.com your team is the blog. DN simple.com your team is very technical and they're always

very technical and they're always very technical and they're always following the way that the industry is following the way that the industry is following the way that the industry is moving for whether it be null MX records moving for whether it be null MX records moving for whether it be null MX records or whatever uh that are making you know or whatever uh that are making you know or whatever uh that are making you know DNS more uh more secure and more safe I DNS more uh more secure and more safe I DNS more uh more secure and more safe I hate to see people in this race towards hate to see people in this race towards hate to see people in this race towards the cost bottom it's the word that we the cost bottom it's the word that we the cost bottom it's the word that we hear is it's a commodity that's how they hear is it's a commodity that's how they hear is it's a commodity that's how they think of it they see DNS as a commodity think of it they see DNS as a commodity think of it they see DNS as a commodity which is is interesting it's not been which is is interesting it's not been which is is interesting it's not been helped by the big players commoditizing helped by the big players commoditizing helped by the big players commoditizing it that's fine but that's fair we can it that's fine but that's fair we can it that's fine but that's fair we can play that game too we just have to play that game too we just have to play that game too we just have to figure out a way to stay lean so that we figure out a way to stay lean so that we figure out a way to stay lean so that we can play that game at the same time and can play that game at the same time and can play that game at the same time and yet continue innovating and doing things yet continue innovating and doing things yet continue innovating and doing things that but again if we stay focused we can that but again if we stay focused we can that but again if we stay focused we can do that it's it's through Focus that do that it's it's through Focus that do that it's it's through Focus that we're able to innovate uh and it's not we're able to innovate uh and it's not we're able to innovate uh and it's not necessarily by being the biggest or the necessarily by being the biggest or the necessarily by being the biggest or the fastest growing company it's more about fastest growing company it's more about fastest growing company it's more about being the most focused being the most focused being the most focused company hey friends in the interest of company hey friends in the interest of company hey friends in the interest of me learning more about Ai and helping me learning more about Ai and helping me learning more about Ai and helping you learn more about AI for the next you learn more about AI for the next you learn more about AI for the next couple of episodes we're going to have couple of episodes we're going to have couple of episodes we're going to have Lander vandoran from Qualcomm help me Lander vandoran from Qualcomm help me Lander vandoran from Qualcomm help me understand understand understand AI what is an npu and why is it AI what is an npu and why is it AI what is an npu and why is it important today important today important today uh so the npu stands for uh neural uh so the npu stands for uh neural uh so the npu stands for uh neural processing units and it's basically your processing units and it's basically your processing units and it's basically your AI accelerator and so it can execute AI AI accelerator and so it can execute AI AI accelerator and so it can execute AI operations these large language models operations these large language models operations these large language models or all sorts of different generative AI or all sorts of different generative AI or all sorts of different generative AI models in a much more efficient way than models in a much more efficient way than models in a much more efficient way than a CPU or a GPU can so just to give you a CPU or a GPU can so just to give you a CPU or a GPU can so just to give you an example with Microsoft's recall like

an example with Microsoft's recall like an example with Microsoft's recall like you run that continuously in the you run that continuously in the you run that continuously in the background running it on an npu takes background running it on an npu takes background running it on an npu takes about 30 minutes of overall life battery about 30 minutes of overall life battery about 30 minutes of overall life battery lifetime if you were to run it on a GPU lifetime if you were to run it on a GPU lifetime if you were to run it on a GPU it would take six and a half hours right it would take six and a half hours right it would take six and a half hours right so it's all about Energy Efficiency very so it's all about Energy Efficiency very so it's all about Energy Efficiency very specifically dedicated to a single task specifically dedicated to a single task specifically dedicated to a single task which is AI in this very cool so I'm which is AI in this very cool so I'm which is AI in this very cool so I'm going to go learn more about npus and going to go learn more about npus and going to go learn more about npus and how they can do things more cheaply from how they can do things more cheaply from how they can do things more cheaply from a battery perspective more efficiently a battery perspective more efficiently a battery perspective more efficiently and why I might want a Snapdragon and why I might want a Snapdragon and why I might want a Snapdragon processor in my next PC exactly thank processor in my next PC exactly thank processor in my next PC exactly thank you and folks can check out more at you and folks can check out more at you and folks can check out more at qualcomm.com developer uh to download qualcomm.com developer uh to download qualcomm.com developer uh to download those things and learn more those things and learn more those things and learn more today now you've got this thing called today now you've got this thing called today now you've got this thing called The Domain control plane and maybe I'm The Domain control plane and maybe I'm The Domain control plane and maybe I'm conflating these things and you can conflating these things and you can conflating these things and you can explain it to me but when I go to the explain it to me but when I go to the explain it to me but when I go to the dashboard it says 41 registered domains dashboard it says 41 registered domains dashboard it says 41 registered domains but then next to it it says 47 DNS zones but then next to it it says 47 DNS zones but then next to it it says 47 DNS zones does that mean that I don't have all of does that mean that I don't have all of does that mean that I don't have all of my domains with you or my conflating my domains with you or my conflating my domains with you or my conflating those two things it might be that you those two things it might be that you those two things it might be that you have a domain registered somewhere else have a domain registered somewhere else have a domain registered somewhere else and pointing at us it might be that that and pointing at us it might be that that and pointing at us it might be that that you have a name in there that's not even you have a name in there that's not even you have a name in there that's not even registered and never was it's possible registered and never was it's possible registered and never was it's possible um The Domain control plane the idea um The Domain control plane the idea um The Domain control plane the idea behind it really was that we we'd love behind it really was that we we'd love behind it really was that we we'd love it if everybody use DN simple all the it if everybody use DN simple all the it if everybody use DN simple all the time but that's not a reality the time but that's not a reality the time but that's not a reality the reality is some people are going to mix reality is some people are going to mix reality is some people are going to mix DN simple with Route 53 or aure DNS or DN simple with Route 53 or aure DNS or DN simple with Route 53 or aure DNS or different providers maybe even on different providers maybe even on different providers maybe even on premise DNS like core DNS and so what we

premise DNS like core DNS and so what we premise DNS like core DNS and so what we did with the domain control plane was did with the domain control plane was did with the domain control plane was build a way to connect into those other build a way to connect into those other build a way to connect into those other systems so from with Indian simple I systems so from with Indian simple I systems so from with Indian simple I connect to azur DNS and I can actually connect to azur DNS and I can actually connect to azur DNS and I can actually manage in a bidirectional fashion zones manage in a bidirectional fashion zones manage in a bidirectional fashion zones that are at Azure or at DN simple side that are at Azure or at DN simple side that are at Azure or at DN simple side by side and I can move them back and by side and I can move them back and by side and I can move them back and forth and so that the idea was an forth and so that the idea was an forth and so that the idea was an acceptance that a acceptance that a acceptance that a multi-platform world is the reality like multi-platform world is the reality like multi-platform world is the reality like we're in a multicloud world that is the we're in a multicloud world that is the we're in a multicloud world that is the way it works um and we'd rather adopt a way it works um and we'd rather adopt a way it works um and we'd rather adopt a system or create a system that allow us system or create a system that allow us system or create a system that allow us to work in that space rather than trying to work in that space rather than trying to work in that space rather than trying to force people because we're too small to force people because we're too small to force people because we're too small to force people to do anything that's to force people to do anything that's to force people to do anything that's the reality of it the reality of it the reality of it right so let's just make it so that it's right so let's just make it so that it's right so let's just make it so that it's e and we our goal is always to make DNS e and we our goal is always to make DNS e and we our goal is always to make DNS and domain management easier so if and domain management easier so if and domain management easier so if somebody can do all that through the UI somebody can do all that through the UI somebody can do all that through the UI or the API D simple and they have that or the API D simple and they have that or the API D simple and they have that single interface that's pretty powerful single interface that's pretty powerful single interface that's pretty powerful we think so this is kind of the this is we think so this is kind of the this is we think so this is kind of the this is early it's still nent we created it uh early it's still nent we created it uh early it's still nent we created it uh within the last year and a half and within the last year and a half and within the last year and a half and we've been testing it out but it still we've been testing it out but it still we've been testing it out but it still has a long way to go I think but that's has a long way to go I think but that's has a long way to go I think but that's the principle behind it now you've got a the principle behind it now you've got a the principle behind it now you've got a really great website called how DNS do really great website called how DNS do really great website called how DNS do works so I would encourage folks to works so I would encourage folks to works so I would encourage folks to check that out I think that it is a one check that out I think that it is a one check that out I think that it is a one of the Little Gems of the internet that of the Little Gems of the internet that of the Little Gems of the internet that people should spend some time on it's uh people should spend some time on it's uh people should spend some time on it's uh the little website that uh that could the little website that uh that could the little website that uh that could how DNS do works but in the interest of how DNS do works but in the interest of how DNS do works but in the interest of maybe understanding a little bit more maybe understanding a little bit more maybe understanding a little bit more about DNS I think that the average about DNS I think that the average about DNS I think that the average developer gets the idea that they go to developer gets the idea that they go to developer gets the idea that they go to a registar in the register a domain and a registar in the register a domain and a registar in the register a domain and then their home network they may be put then their home network they may be put then their home network they may be put in 1.11.1 or 8.8 8.8 and they've got

in 1.11.1 or 8.8 8.8 and they've got in 1.11.1 or 8.8 8.8 and they've got these you know very simple uh ipv4s that these you know very simple uh ipv4s that these you know very simple uh ipv4s that they've memorized can you explain the they've memorized can you explain the they've memorized can you explain the relationship between me putting in 1.1.1 relationship between me putting in 1.1.1 relationship between me putting in 1.1.1 or whatever and what you're doing and or whatever and what you're doing and or whatever and what you're doing and how Google or cloudflare and my own how Google or cloudflare and my own how Google or cloudflare and my own network interact and when they network interact and when they network interact and when they eventually show up at DN simple and how eventually show up at DN simple and how eventually show up at DN simple and how that interaction Works sure sure so we that interaction Works sure sure so we that interaction Works sure sure so we do the authoritative DNS side of it so do the authoritative DNS side of it so do the authoritative DNS side of it so that is we hold the Zone information for that is we hold the Zone information for that is we hold the Zone information for a domain that's with us and a domain that's with us and a domain that's with us and ultimately the answer to the questions ultimately the answer to the questions ultimately the answer to the questions lies with us but those questions first lies with us but those questions first lies with us but those questions first go through a series of other servers the go through a series of other servers the go through a series of other servers the 1.1.1 or 1.1.1 or 1.1.1 or 88.8 uh and there are several of these 88.8 uh and there are several of these 88.8 uh and there are several of these that have been run over the years are that have been run over the years are that have been run over the years are resolving networks so they're resolvers resolving networks so they're resolvers resolving networks so they're resolvers uh the resolvers are essentially the uh the resolvers are essentially the uh the resolvers are essentially the first place that you go to ask the first place that you go to ask the first place that you go to ask the question closer to you because the idea question closer to you because the idea question closer to you because the idea is if we cash a bunch of these requests is if we cash a bunch of these requests is if we cash a bunch of these requests closer to you then you don't have to go closer to you then you don't have to go closer to you then you don't have to go back every time to the authoritative back every time to the authoritative back every time to the authoritative name server to ask that same name server to ask that same name server to ask that same question there's also an onboard cache question there's also an onboard cache question there's also an onboard cache on pretty much every computer that is on pretty much every computer that is on pretty much every computer that is also quered but the time that the that also quered but the time that the that also quered but the time that the that it will hold that response is shorter it will hold that response is shorter it will hold that response is shorter and shorter as the closer it gets to you and shorter as the closer it gets to you and shorter as the closer it gets to you so the farther away it gets to you the so the farther away it gets to you the so the farther away it gets to you the the the longer it might hold that the the longer it might hold that the the longer it might hold that response in memory um so the idea is is response in memory um so the idea is is response in memory um so the idea is is that you make a request and and how DNS that you make a request and and how DNS that you make a request and and how DNS do works is a great way to see all this do works is a great way to see all this do works is a great way to see all this in the comic version of it but you make in the comic version of it but you make in the comic version of it but you make a request that goes to the resolver say

a request that goes to the resolver say a request that goes to the resolver say an 8.8.8.8 or an 8.8.8.8 or an 8.8.8.8 or 1.11.1 that resolver in turn starts 1.11.1 that resolver in turn starts 1.11.1 that resolver in turn starts trying to figure out where is this trying to figure out where is this trying to figure out where is this domain does it have something in cash domain does it have something in cash domain does it have something in cash that it can start the answer so and if that it can start the answer so and if that it can start the answer so and if it doesn't it would have to go say first it doesn't it would have to go say first it doesn't it would have to go say first let's pull this apart I'm going to go to let's pull this apart I'm going to go to let's pull this apart I'm going to go to the root name servers and it's like do the root name servers and it's like do the root name servers and it's like do you have say Scott Hanselman dcom and you have say Scott Hanselman dcom and you have say Scott Hanselman dcom and the root name server says no but I have the root name server says no but I have the root name server says no but I have doc I can tell you who doc I can tell you who doc I can tell you who has so then that gets delegated to the has so then that gets delegated to the has so then that gets delegated to the name servers which are run by a whole name servers which are run by a whole name servers which are run by a whole bunch of companies then the resolver bunch of companies then the resolver bunch of companies then the resolver says hey.com name servers do you have says hey.com name servers do you have says hey.com name servers do you have Scot Hanselman Scot Hanselman Scot Hanselman docomo but I can tell you who does Scott docomo but I can tell you who does Scott docomo but I can tell you who does Scott hav Scot hansel. then it might go to our hav Scot hansel. then it might go to our hav Scot hansel. then it might go to our name servers and our name servers name servers and our name servers name servers and our name servers finally say yes we do and it responds finally say yes we do and it responds finally say yes we do and it responds back the resolver then caches that back the resolver then caches that back the resolver then caches that information that it's gathered along the information that it's gathered along the information that it's gathered along the way returns it to you and then you ask way returns it to you and then you ask way returns it to you and then you ask again and it's like here I already know again and it's like here I already know again and it's like here I already know don't need to go again so that's one of don't need to go again so that's one of don't need to go again so that's one of the performance enhancements to that the performance enhancements to that the performance enhancements to that makes DNS continue to scale even as the makes DNS continue to scale even as the makes DNS continue to scale even as the internet just grows and grows and grows internet just grows and grows and grows internet just grows and grows and grows and we have more and more traffic mhm and we have more and more traffic mhm and we have more and more traffic mhm now this might sound like I'm a fanboy now this might sound like I'm a fanboy now this might sound like I'm a fanboy but certainly I've been a customer for a but certainly I've been a customer for a but certainly I've been a customer for a very very long time so if I I am very very long time so if I I am very very long time so if I I am indirectly a fanboy but in the early indirectly a fanboy but in the early indirectly a fanboy but in the early days 1015 years ago one of the reasons days 1015 years ago one of the reasons days 1015 years ago one of the reasons that I stuck with DN simple was I would that I stuck with DN simple was I would that I stuck with DN simple was I would constantly have to make a c name or a constantly have to make a c name or a constantly have to make a c name or a subdomain change or add a text record subdomain change or add a text record subdomain change or add a text record and I would watch people like live and I would watch people like live and I would watch people like live coding on Twitch or live coding on coding on Twitch or live coding on coding on Twitch or live coding on YouTube try to put a website up live on YouTube try to put a website up live on YouTube try to put a website up live on stage and they would update a CN you stage and they would update a CN you stage and they would update a CN you know C name and GoDaddy or something and

know C name and GoDaddy or something and know C name and GoDaddy or something and then they'd go well we're going to wait then they'd go well we're going to wait then they'd go well we're going to wait about 12 to 15 minutes for the DNS to about 12 to 15 minutes for the DNS to about 12 to 15 minutes for the DNS to propagate and the demo would never work propagate and the demo would never work propagate and the demo would never work you know what I mean yeah but for some you know what I mean yeah but for some you know what I mean yeah but for some reason on Dan simple I would go and make reason on Dan simple I would go and make reason on Dan simple I would go and make you know example app. hans.com and I'd you know example app. hans.com and I'd you know example app. hans.com and I'd hit refresh or even now when I do a um a hit refresh or even now when I do a um a hit refresh or even now when I do a um a let's encrypt certificate and I add a let's encrypt certificate and I add a let's encrypt certificate and I add a text record and then I go back to Let's text record and then I go back to Let's text record and then I go back to Let's encrypt at the command line and it says encrypt at the command line and it says encrypt at the command line and it says oh I see it is that some herbs and oh I see it is that some herbs and oh I see it is that some herbs and spices that you're doing because you spices that you're doing because you spices that you're doing because you always seem to be fast on picking that always seem to be fast on picking that always seem to be fast on picking that stuff up while I'm constantly waiting stuff up while I'm constantly waiting stuff up while I'm constantly waiting for for other domain providers to to I for for other domain providers to to I for for other domain providers to to I don't know clear the caches do whatever don't know clear the caches do whatever don't know clear the caches do whatever they need to do yeah that's part of they need to do yeah that's part of they need to do yeah that's part of that's part of what's I think what works that's part of what's I think what works that's part of what's I think what works well at d symbol and what makes that well at d symbol and what makes that well at d symbol and what makes that piece work really well is that we piece work really well is that we piece work really well is that we instead of using def the the protocols instead of using def the the protocols instead of using def the the protocols that you have in the DNS space to that you have in the DNS space to that you have in the DNS space to synchronize between different servers we synchronize between different servers we synchronize between different servers we use our own internal system and that use our own internal system and that use our own internal system and that internal system has been built up over internal system has been built up over internal system has been built up over the years to to be pretty fast and the years to to be pretty fast and the years to to be pretty fast and essentially the goal is how fast can we essentially the goal is how fast can we essentially the goal is how fast can we get changes to our Edge because our get changes to our Edge because our get changes to our Edge because our Network's not just one server or one set Network's not just one server or one set Network's not just one server or one set of servers in one location our of servers in one location our of servers in one location our authoritative Network had right now we authoritative Network had right now we authoritative Network had right now we have eight points of presence around the have eight points of presence around the have eight points of presence around the world so we have to get that data out to world so we have to get that data out to world so we have to get that data out to all of them the furthest one which is all of them the furthest one which is all of them the furthest one which is kind of our our bar that we set for has kind of our our bar that we set for has kind of our our bar that we set for has to go to Australia and it has to go from to go to Australia and it has to go from to go to Australia and it has to go from our data our primary data center in the our data our primary data center in the our data our primary data center in the US over to Australia so we've worked US over to Australia so we've worked US over to Australia so we've worked hard to make that caching mechanism hard to make that caching mechanism hard to make that caching mechanism really like that transfer mechanism work really like that transfer mechanism work really like that transfer mechanism work really fast and I think we all one of

really fast and I think we all one of really fast and I think we all one of the things that we also did is that we the things that we also did is that we the things that we also did is that we took a lot of time to measure that and took a lot of time to measure that and took a lot of time to measure that and constantly measure it make sure that it constantly measure it make sure that it constantly measure it make sure that it was continuing to work there were times was continuing to work there were times was continuing to work there were times where it didn't it worked up to a point where it didn't it worked up to a point where it didn't it worked up to a point and you know how it is with scaling and you know how it is with scaling and you know how it is with scaling right you start scaling something it right you start scaling something it right you start scaling something it works to a point and then it kind of works to a point and then it kind of works to a point and then it kind of just starts to slow down and bog down just starts to slow down and bog down just starts to slow down and bog down and it doesn't work as well you need to and it doesn't work as well you need to and it doesn't work as well you need to do some redesigns we've gone through do some redesigns we've gone through do some redesigns we've gone through several of those over the years to several of those over the years to several of those over the years to redesign our infrastructure and our redesign our infrastructure and our redesign our infrastructure and our architecture for how we move data around architecture for how we move data around architecture for how we move data around um so yeah that's that's part of what we um so yeah that's that's part of what we um so yeah that's that's part of what we do I think it's also our willingness to do I think it's also our willingness to do I think it's also our willingness to set default TTL values that are fairly set default TTL values that are fairly set default TTL values that are fairly low a lot of original like if you go to low a lot of original like if you go to low a lot of original like if you go to let's say you go to your registar they let's say you go to your registar they let's say you go to your registar they might default you to a TTL of a day might default you to a TTL of a day might default you to a TTL of a day right and if some if a c we talked about right and if some if a c we talked about right and if some if a c we talked about those caching name servers the TTL is those caching name servers the TTL is those caching name servers the TTL is the time to live so if that caching name the time to live so if that caching name the time to live so if that caching name server has that and it has a very long server has that and it has a very long server has that and it has a very long time to live it's not going to clear time to live it's not going to clear time to live it's not going to clear itself it's going to like let that thing itself it's going to like let that thing itself it's going to like let that thing run down and you're going to get that run down and you're going to get that run down and you're going to get that old record if you're doing an update so old record if you're doing an update so old record if you're doing an update so yeah yeah there's a few little things yeah yeah there's a few little things yeah yeah there's a few little things that we did that we set up and then that we did that we set up and then that we did that we set up and then there's a few big things that we did there's a few big things that we did there's a few big things that we did over the years to make it work fast and over the years to make it work fast and over the years to make it work fast and all that work together to make it so you all that work together to make it so you all that work together to make it so you can do that type of thing and you can can do that type of thing and you can can do that type of thing and you can know that the record's going to be know that the record's going to be know that the record's going to be deployed real fast yeah yeah as a deployed real fast yeah yeah as a deployed real fast yeah yeah as a customer who is constantly tweaking customer who is constantly tweaking customer who is constantly tweaking making changes adding text records making changes adding text records making changes adding text records messing around uh particularly in messing around uh particularly in messing around uh particularly in development I can I can attest to the development I can I can attest to the development I can I can attest to the fact that um I don't like that thing fact that um I don't like that thing fact that um I don't like that thing where I uh make a change to my code I I where I uh make a change to my code I I where I uh make a change to my code I I push it into git I wait for my CI CD push it into git I wait for my CI CD push it into git I wait for my CI CD those are all very fast all of this those are all very fast all of this those are all very fast all of this happens fast and then I go to my DNS and happens fast and then I go to my DNS and happens fast and then I go to my DNS and I update a record and I sit around like

I update a record and I sit around like I update a record and I sit around like I don't have that experience with thean I don't have that experience with thean I don't have that experience with thean simple and I've always appreciated simple and I've always appreciated simple and I've always appreciated because when I said at the beginning it because when I said at the beginning it because when I said at the beginning it was a developer's DNS that feels like was a developer's DNS that feels like was a developer's DNS that feels like that I've constantly seen people uh with that I've constantly seen people uh with that I've constantly seen people uh with other domain registers wait and fight other domain registers wait and fight other domain registers wait and fight and hit refresh and ip config slf flush and hit refresh and ip config slf flush and hit refresh and ip config slf flush and reboot their just anything they and reboot their just anything they and reboot their just anything they could do to get whatever is stuck could do to get whatever is stuck could do to get whatever is stuck unstuck uh which brings me to my next unstuck uh which brings me to my next unstuck uh which brings me to my next question I as a web developer feel like question I as a web developer feel like question I as a web developer feel like at you know when you think about the at you know when you think about the at you know when you think about the layer the seven layers of networks I layer the seven layers of networks I layer the seven layers of networks I understand HTTP I could write I could I understand HTTP I could write I could I understand HTTP I could write I could I used to true story I used to tnet to used to true story I used to tnet to used to true story I used to tnet to Port 80 and simulate HTTP gets to show Port 80 and simulate HTTP gets to show Port 80 and simulate HTTP gets to show people how you can browse the web at people how you can browse the web at people how you can browse the web at Port 80 as a way of showing students in Port 80 as a way of showing students in Port 80 as a way of showing students in my in my University classes when I was a my in my University classes when I was a my in my University classes when I was a professor how to drive stick professor how to drive stick professor how to drive stick shift I can't do that at the DNS level shift I can't do that at the DNS level shift I can't do that at the DNS level but I guess I bet you probably probably but I guess I bet you probably probably but I guess I bet you probably probably could like do a wire shark and you know could like do a wire shark and you know could like do a wire shark and you know DNS at that level you know what I mean DNS at that level you know what I mean DNS at that level you know what I mean like the way I know HTTP you know like the way I know HTTP you know like the way I know HTTP you know DNS uh yeah I mean the I've like you I DNS uh yeah I mean the I've like you I DNS uh yeah I mean the I've like you I also used to tell net to Port 8 on HTP also used to tell net to Port 8 on HTP also used to tell net to Port 8 on HTP servers to show how it worked that kind servers to show how it worked that kind servers to show how it worked that kind of nerd the good old days um I also have of nerd the good old days um I also have of nerd the good old days um I also have written three DNS servers I wrote One in written three DNS servers I wrote One in written three DNS servers I wrote One in Pearl I wrote One in Java and I wrote Pearl I wrote One in Java and I wrote Pearl I wrote One in Java and I wrote One in earling which is what we One in earling which is what we One in earling which is what we currently operate so I wrote the core of currently operate so I wrote the core of currently operate so I wrote the core of what our name server infrastructure what our name server infrastructure what our name server infrastructure run-ons granted other developers have run-ons granted other developers have run-ons granted other developers have added their their energy to it as well added their their energy to it as well added their their energy to it as well but I spend a lot of time trying to

but I spend a lot of time trying to but I spend a lot of time trying to understand the protocol really deeply understand the protocol really deeply understand the protocol really deeply and that's the cool thing about it like and that's the cool thing about it like and that's the cool thing about it like that's to me it's it's always been that's to me it's it's always been that's to me it's it's always been fascinating because the protocol itself fascinating because the protocol itself fascinating because the protocol itself is massive but it's it's broken up in is massive but it's it's broken up in is massive but it's it's broken up in all these little chunks because it's all these little chunks because it's all these little chunks because it's it's evolved over time so you can pick a it's evolved over time so you can pick a it's evolved over time so you can pick a piece out of that and read an RFC which piece out of that and read an RFC which piece out of that and read an RFC which is out there in the public is for every is out there in the public is for every is out there in the public is for every and you can understand how that little and you can understand how that little and you can understand how that little bit of the protocol Works um granted bit of the protocol Works um granted bit of the protocol Works um granted there are some pieces the protocol that there are some pieces the protocol that there are some pieces the protocol that are not so easy to understand but the are not so easy to understand but the are not so easy to understand but the the fundamental protocol is just so the fundamental protocol is just so the fundamental protocol is just so elegant and beautiful I think again that elegant and beautiful I think again that elegant and beautiful I think again that that's a it's a testament to why it has that's a it's a testament to why it has that's a it's a testament to why it has survived for so long is that it is so survived for so long is that it is so survived for so long is that it is so elegant at its core and so I've always elegant at its core and so I've always elegant at its core and so I've always been fascinated by it I've done a lot of been fascinated by it I've done a lot of been fascinated by it I've done a lot of talks over the years on on UDP and and talks over the years on on UDP and and talks over the years on on UDP and and for DNS and and even things specifically for DNS and and even things specifically for DNS and and even things specifically about how earling is really good at about how earling is really good at about how earling is really good at taking packets and breaking them apart taking packets and breaking them apart taking packets and breaking them apart into their little bits it's because it into their little bits it's because it into their little bits it's because it has a particular part of the language has a particular part of the language has a particular part of the language which are called bit strings which are which are called bit strings which are which are called bit strings which are perfect for mapping DNS packets it's perfect for mapping DNS packets it's perfect for mapping DNS packets it's like they were made to go together like they were made to go together like they were made to go together peanut butter and jelly uh so yeah I I I peanut butter and jelly uh so yeah I I I peanut butter and jelly uh so yeah I I I love it and I've spent a lot of time love it and I've spent a lot of time love it and I've spent a lot of time doing that and a lot of time writing doing that and a lot of time writing doing that and a lot of time writing tools that query DNS and try to tools that query DNS and try to tools that query DNS and try to understand what's going on and yeah it's understand what's going on and yeah it's understand what's going on and yeah it's just a lot of fun it's I mean I'm a nerd just a lot of fun it's I mean I'm a nerd just a lot of fun it's I mean I'm a nerd at heart I'm even though I run the at heart I'm even though I run the at heart I'm even though I run the company now I still love I wish I could company now I still love I wish I could company now I still love I wish I could be writing code more often is what is be writing code more often is what is be writing code more often is what is what it comes down to Alas there are what it comes down to Alas there are what it comes down to Alas there are more important things for me to do the more important things for me to do the more important things for me to do the uh yeah I think I'm not sure if WhatsApp uh yeah I think I'm not sure if WhatsApp uh yeah I think I'm not sure if WhatsApp still runs on erlang but early on they

still runs on erlang but early on they still runs on erlang but early on they were on llang and uh it seems to be a were on llang and uh it seems to be a were on llang and uh it seems to be a great backend uh language and great backend uh language and great backend uh language and environment for doing doing stuff as environment for doing doing stuff as environment for doing doing stuff as fast as possible at scale chopping bits fast as possible at scale chopping bits fast as possible at scale chopping bits up and getting them out you know boom bo up and getting them out you know boom bo up and getting them out you know boom bo boom boom boom I mean it was designed boom boom boom I mean it was designed boom boom boom I mean it was designed for for telephone switches right so it for for telephone switches right so it for for telephone switches right so it was defined designed to work in an was defined designed to work in an was defined designed to work in an environment that needed to be uh environment that needed to be uh environment that needed to be uh reliable but also could break so the reliable but also could break so the reliable but also could break so the whole principle behind it is like allow whole principle behind it is like allow whole principle behind it is like allow it to fail fast and then recover well it to fail fast and then recover well it to fail fast and then recover well and that's actually part of what the ins and that's actually part of what the ins and that's actually part of what the ins simples infrastructure is designed as as simples infrastructure is designed as as simples infrastructure is designed as as well rather than trying for this um you well rather than trying for this um you well rather than trying for this um you know this massive uh redundancy granted know this massive uh redundancy granted know this massive uh redundancy granted we have plenty of redundancy but if a we have plenty of redundancy but if a we have plenty of redundancy but if a system fails it's designed to go down system fails it's designed to go down system fails it's designed to go down hard and then come back up well and hard and then come back up well and hard and then come back up well and clean and and llang as a language and clean and and llang as a language and clean and and llang as a language and more specifically OTP as a framework was more specifically OTP as a framework was more specifically OTP as a framework was designed to do that and and I because of designed to do that and and I because of designed to do that and and I because of where it was running because was running where it was running because was running where it was running because was running in telephone switches and you didn't in telephone switches and you didn't in telephone switches and you didn't have the opportunity to go out there and have the opportunity to go out there and have the opportunity to go out there and like try to go fix something it needed like try to go fix something it needed like try to go fix something it needed to come down and then restart clean yeah to come down and then restart clean yeah to come down and then restart clean yeah yeah that term erlang was a unit of yeah that term erlang was a unit of yeah that term erlang was a unit of telecommunications traffic so it makes telecommunications traffic so it makes telecommunications traffic so it makes sense that it would be great at doing sense that it would be great at doing sense that it would be great at doing something like like DNS and then OT something like like DNS and then OT something like like DNS and then OT lotp what does the OTP stand for do you lotp what does the OTP stand for do you lotp what does the OTP stand for do you know so I always thought it was open know so I always thought it was open know so I always thought it was open Telecom protocol but or um something Telecom protocol but or um something Telecom protocol but or um something like that but I actually somebody told like that but I actually somebody told like that but I actually somebody told me the other day that I was just flat me the other day that I was just flat me the other day that I was just flat out wrong uh and now I'm going to have out wrong uh and now I'm going to have out wrong uh and now I'm going to have to go look up on my own again cuz they to go look up on my own again cuz they to go look up on my own again cuz they say it's open Telecom platform but like

say it's open Telecom platform but like say it's open Telecom platform but like yes somebody said the other day that yes somebody said the other day that yes somebody said the other day that that wasn't the case so now I'm that wasn't the case so now I'm that wasn't the case so now I'm wondering if there's if I've been wondering if there's if I've been wondering if there's if I've been bamboozled or if there is a deeper story bamboozled or if there is a deeper story bamboozled or if there is a deeper story here uh I think it's one of those things here uh I think it's one of those things here uh I think it's one of those things like you know where it meant something like you know where it meant something like you know where it meant something once and now it's it's become bigger once and now it's it's become bigger once and now it's it's become bigger than it is and now earling is certainly than it is and now earling is certainly than it is and now earling is certainly not just for Telecom systems although not just for Telecom systems although not just for Telecom systems although it's ironic that it's doing both DNS in it's ironic that it's doing both DNS in it's ironic that it's doing both DNS in this case and then WhatsApp as well it's this case and then WhatsApp as well it's this case and then WhatsApp as well it's perfect for that kind of uh that kind of perfect for that kind of uh that kind of perfect for that kind of uh that kind of work yeah we it's it is really neat it's work yeah we it's it is really neat it's work yeah we it's it is really neat it's so I've written in lots of different so I've written in lots of different so I've written in lots of different languages I've written everything from languages I've written everything from languages I've written everything from java to python to Ruby to Pearl to PHP java to python to Ruby to Pearl to PHP java to python to Ruby to Pearl to PHP to like just all over the board uh uh go to like just all over the board uh uh go to like just all over the board uh uh go rust closure my favorite language still rust closure my favorite language still rust closure my favorite language still is or Ling because it's not like is or Ling because it's not like is or Ling because it's not like anything else it's it's pattern matching anything else it's it's pattern matching anything else it's it's pattern matching in the language itself is so beautiful in the language itself is so beautiful in the language itself is so beautiful it's just and granted it's based on it's just and granted it's based on it's just and granted it's based on prologue so prologue so prologue so i' have never written a line of prologue i' have never written a line of prologue i' have never written a line of prologue in my life but I probably should go back in my life but I probably should go back in my life but I probably should go back and check because I bet that prologue is and check because I bet that prologue is and check because I bet that prologue is can be is just as beautiful for certain can be is just as beautiful for certain can be is just as beautiful for certain things so let me ask you this last things so let me ask you this last things so let me ask you this last question and uh I mean it as 100% of a question and uh I mean it as 100% of a question and uh I mean it as 100% of a compliment although some people might compliment although some people might compliment although some people might not think about it that way but I've not think about it that way but I've not think about it that way but I've always thought of DN simple as the best always thought of DN simple as the best always thought of DN simple as the best kind of Boutique tech company you've kind of Boutique tech company you've kind of Boutique tech company you've been running it now for 15 plus years been running it now for 15 plus years been running it now for 15 plus years you've been thinking about this stuff you've been thinking about this stuff you've been thinking about this stuff for 20 years but I've never seen you try for 20 years but I've never seen you try for 20 years but I've never seen you try to get acquired or become bigger than to get acquired or become bigger than to get acquired or become bigger than necessary a boutique is like we make necessary a boutique is like we make necessary a boutique is like we make high quality bespoke leather goods out high quality bespoke leather goods out high quality bespoke leather goods out of a nice little place in Florida and of a nice little place in Florida and of a nice little place in Florida and you you come come and visit us and

you you come come and visit us and you you come come and visit us and you'll meet like some little old tayor you'll meet like some little old tayor you'll meet like some little old tayor you're the you're the old tailor in this you're the you're the old tailor in this you're the you're the old tailor in this in this case you're the guy with the in this case you're the guy with the in this case you're the guy with the you're the guy with the uh uh the you're the guy with the uh uh the you're the guy with the uh uh the measuring tape around his neck who wants measuring tape around his neck who wants measuring tape around his neck who wants to go and measure your inseam and make to go and measure your inseam and make to go and measure your inseam and make sure you get the perfect bespoke suit um sure you get the perfect bespoke suit um sure you get the perfect bespoke suit um is that the the the the the future is is that the the the the the future is is that the the the the the future is that the plan or is there some get that the plan or is there some get that the plan or is there some get bought by giant billionaire company and bought by giant billionaire company and bought by giant billionaire company and then you go off to an island somewhere I then you go off to an island somewhere I then you go off to an island somewhere I for the foreseeable future I'm totally for the foreseeable future I'm totally for the foreseeable future I'm totally happy to keep running D simple as it is happy to keep running D simple as it is happy to keep running D simple as it is I like running it as a boutique service I like running it as a boutique service I like running it as a boutique service I like knowing the people that use our I like knowing the people that use our I like knowing the people that use our service I really truly like meeting service I really truly like meeting service I really truly like meeting customers I go out and I will meet a customers I go out and I will meet a customers I go out and I will meet a person and that person says I use the person and that person says I use the person and that person says I use the ins simple and it makes me happy and ins simple and it makes me happy and ins simple and it makes me happy and that is a joy for me you know is there a that is a joy for me you know is there a that is a joy for me you know is there a price sure there's always a price right price sure there's always a price right price sure there's always a price right but I'm in no hurry I'm still I consider but I'm in no hurry I'm still I consider but I'm in no hurry I'm still I consider myself still a young man I'm still under myself still a young man I'm still under myself still a young man I'm still under 50 here I've got a lot of years ahead of 50 here I've got a lot of years ahead of 50 here I've got a lot of years ahead of me as I am now 50 you have just PID me a me as I am now 50 you have just PID me a me as I am now 50 you have just PID me a incredibly old man sorry not not incredibly old man sorry not not incredibly old man sorry not not incredibly old you're just you're just incredibly old you're just you're just incredibly old you're just you're just Towing over the line no I I love what I Towing over the line no I I love what I Towing over the line no I I love what I do and I'd be happy to keep doing this do and I'd be happy to keep doing this do and I'd be happy to keep doing this for quite a long time I as long as we for quite a long time I as long as we for quite a long time I as long as we can continue can continue can continue to make our customers happy do things to make our customers happy do things to make our customers happy do things that are Innovative and continue to that are Innovative and continue to that are Innovative and continue to operate it the way we we want to operate operate it the way we we want to operate operate it the way we we want to operate it I am totally happy continue to do it I am totally happy continue to do it I am totally happy continue to do this I I love this business it's so this I I love this business it's so this I I love this business it's so fascinating uh and and look it's got 40 fascinating uh and and look it's got 40 fascinating uh and and look it's got 40 Years of history and so that gives you a Years of history and so that gives you a Years of history and so that gives you a lot of room to play in and a lot of lot of room to play in and a lot of lot of room to play in and a lot of space to learn in and and to me that's a space to learn in and and to me that's a space to learn in and and to me that's a fun thing very cool well thank you so

fun thing very cool well thank you so fun thing very cool well thank you so much for chatting with me today uh again much for chatting with me today uh again much for chatting with me today uh again not a sponsored show just talking to my not a sponsored show just talking to my not a sponsored show just talking to my buddy Anthony but I do recommend buddy Anthony but I do recommend buddy Anthony but I do recommend personally and I have for years you can personally and I have for years you can personally and I have for years you can find my tweets going back 15 years uh DN find my tweets going back 15 years uh DN find my tweets going back 15 years uh DN simple whether it be one domain or simple whether it be one domain or simple whether it be one domain or 100,000 domains also fantastic SSL 100,000 domains also fantastic SSL 100,000 domains also fantastic SSL certificate management now makes it certificate management now makes it certificate management now makes it super super easy to not have to think super super easy to not have to think super super easy to not have to think about your domains thanks for for about your domains thanks for for about your domains thanks for for chatting with me today I appreciate it chatting with me today I appreciate it chatting with me today I appreciate it thanks for having me on Scott I thanks for having me on Scott I thanks for having me on Scott I appreciate it as well we've been talking appreciate it as well we've been talking appreciate it as well we've been talking with Anthony Eden founder of DN simple with Anthony Eden founder of DN simple with Anthony Eden founder of DN simple and this has been another episode of and this has been another episode of and this has been another episode of Hansel minutes and we'll see you again Hansel minutes and we'll see you again Hansel minutes and we'll see you again next week next week next week [Music]