Vjekoslav Krajačić on File Pilot and a return to fast UIs

Hey friends, it's Scott. I want to thank Hey friends, it's Scott. I want to thank our new sponsor, Mail Trap. Modern email our new sponsor, Mail Trap. Modern email our new sponsor, Mail Trap. Modern email delivery for developers. They integrate delivery for developers. They integrate delivery for developers. They integrate straight into your code with their SDKs. straight into your code with their SDKs. straight into your code with their SDKs. You get unified transactional and You get unified transactional and You get unified transactional and promotional email delivery. 24/7 promotional email delivery. 24/7 promotional email delivery. 24/7 support. You contact humans, not AI chat support. You contact humans, not AI chat support. You contact humans, not AI chat bots. We'll give you 3,500 emails bots. We'll give you 3,500 emails bots. We'll give you 3,500 emails monthly in the free tier. And you can monthly in the free tier. And you can monthly in the free tier. And you can try them out at mail.io try them out at mail.io try them out at mail.io today. That's m a lap.io today. That's m a lap.io today. That's m a lap.io io today. io today. io today. [music] Hi, I'm Scott Hansselman. This is Hi, I'm Scott Hansselman. This is another episode of Handsome Minutes. another episode of Handsome Minutes. another episode of Handsome Minutes. Today I'm chatting with Vekuslav Priic. Today I'm chatting with Vekuslav Priic. Today I'm chatting with Vekuslav Priic. He is the principal at Filepilot. You He is the principal at Filepilot. You He is the principal at Filepilot. You can check it out at filepilot.te. can check it out at filepilot.te. can check it out at filepilot.te. How are you sir? How are you sir? How are you sir? >> Hello everyone. Hi. I'm I'm fine, >> Hello everyone. Hi. I'm I'm fine, >> Hello everyone. Hi. I'm I'm fine, thanks. thanks. thanks. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You've had a really exciting couple of >> You've had a really exciting couple of >> You've had a really exciting couple of years. Uh I like to talk about how years. Uh I like to talk about how years. Uh I like to talk about how people um come out of nowhere like an people um come out of nowhere like an people um come out of nowhere like an overnight success, but what's funny is overnight success, but what's funny is overnight success, but what's funny is that you had some really interesting um that you had some really interesting um that you had some really interesting um like press and everyone's excited about like press and everyone's excited about like press and everyone's excited about your product, File Pilot. But you've your product, File Pilot. But you've your product, File Pilot. But you've been working on this quietly for a year been working on this quietly for a year been working on this quietly for a year or two, but then people might be like, or two, but then people might be like, or two, but then people might be like, "Oh man, that guy, he came out of "Oh man, that guy, he came out of "Oh man, that guy, he came out of nowhere." But this is a this is a a a nowhere." But this is a this is a a a nowhere." But this is a this is a a a labor of love you've been working on for labor of love you've been working on for labor of love you've been working on for quite a while, isn't it?

quite a while, isn't it? quite a while, isn't it? >> Yeah. Yeah. I started in 2022, >> Yeah. Yeah. I started in 2022, >> Yeah. Yeah. I started in 2022, so roughly four years ago. Yeah. And I so roughly four years ago. Yeah. And I so roughly four years ago. Yeah. And I was pretty much like incognito like was pretty much like incognito like was pretty much like incognito like first two or three years and uh people first two or three years and uh people first two or three years and uh people started noticing when I released the started noticing when I released the started noticing when I released the first uh initial alpha. But that was first uh initial alpha. But that was first uh initial alpha. But that was like maybe like maybe like maybe couple hundreds of users and it stayed couple hundreds of users and it stayed couple hundreds of users and it stayed like that for a year. And then a year like that for a year. And then a year like that for a year. And then a year after uh at the beginning of 2025 I after uh at the beginning of 2025 I after uh at the beginning of 2025 I released it to the public beta and then released it to the public beta and then released it to the public beta and then like a lot of people uh a lot of people like a lot of people uh a lot of people like a lot of people uh a lot of people u discovered it. u discovered it. u discovered it. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And this this is effectively a entirely >> And this this is effectively a entirely >> And this this is effectively a entirely engineered from scratch Windows file engineered from scratch Windows file engineered from scratch Windows file explorer. It's meant to wholly replace explorer. It's meant to wholly replace explorer. It's meant to wholly replace >> explorer and um >> explorer and um >> explorer and um >> to the extent to the extent it can be on >> to the extent to the extent it can be on >> to the extent to the extent it can be on to the extent to the extent to the extent >> it can right and and that's an important >> it can right and and that's an important >> it can right and and that's an important thing to talk about and we should talk thing to talk about and we should talk thing to talk about and we should talk about it that there is there are about it that there is there are about it that there is there are features and deep features within you features and deep features within you features and deep features within you know Windows Explorer some of which know Windows Explorer some of which know Windows Explorer some of which might be niche or little tiny small might be niche or little tiny small might be niche or little tiny small features that you don't care about but features that you don't care about but features that you don't care about but you're trying to cover the 80% you're trying to cover the 80% you're trying to cover the 80% >> be a good file explorer for everyday use >> be a good file explorer for everyday use >> be a good file explorer for everyday use all the time.

all the time. all the time. >> Yeah, pretty much. pretty much like I I >> Yeah, pretty much. pretty much like I I >> Yeah, pretty much. pretty much like I I probably I've never tested like can file probably I've never tested like can file probably I've never tested like can file pilot read um CDs or DVDs like because pilot read um CDs or DVDs like because pilot read um CDs or DVDs like because people don't use those anymore. At least people don't use those anymore. At least people don't use those anymore. At least most of people don't use them. So I'm most of people don't use them. So I'm most of people don't use them. So I'm not even sure if it's possible in file not even sure if it's possible in file not even sure if it's possible in file pilot. So yeah, I'm pretty much I I just pilot. So yeah, I'm pretty much I I just pilot. So yeah, I'm pretty much I I just tried to cover like tried to cover like tried to cover like >> So if I tried to read a DVD, we don't >> So if I tried to read a DVD, we don't >> So if I tried to read a DVD, we don't know. It might work, it might not work. know. It might work, it might not work. know. It might work, it might not work. Who knows? Who knows? Who knows? >> I'm not sure. >> I'm not sure. >> I'm not sure. Please tell me because I don't have a Please tell me because I don't have a Please tell me because I don't have a DVD uh drive to test it. DVD uh drive to test it. DVD uh drive to test it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there seem to be >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there seem to be >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there seem to be two big competitors in the file explorer two big competitors in the file explorer two big competitors in the file explorer space. There's File Pilot at space. There's File Pilot at space. There's File Pilot at filepilot.te filepilot.te filepilot.te and then there's the Files app which is and then there's the Files app which is and then there's the Files app which is at files.com community. And your app and at files.com community. And your app and at files.com community. And your app and their app kind of are the two big their app kind of are the two big their app kind of are the two big players. If you're a Windows user and players. If you're a Windows user and players. If you're a Windows user and you're thinking, I want to replace you're thinking, I want to replace you're thinking, I want to replace Windows Explorer. Windows Explorer. Windows Explorer. >> I mean, there are more of them. There >> I mean, there are more of them. There >> I mean, there are more of them. There are more of them, but files and file are more of them, but files and file are more of them, but files and file pilot are the most recent ones, I think. pilot are the most recent ones, I think. pilot are the most recent ones, I think. >> Yeah. And I think I would also go so far >> Yeah. And I think I would also go so far >> Yeah. And I think I would also go so far as to say the most polished. Certainly, as to say the most polished. Certainly, as to say the most polished. Certainly, there are ones that have been around for there are ones that have been around for there are ones that have been around for a very long time, 20 years even, a very long time, 20 years even, a very long time, 20 years even, >> but from a polished perspective, I think >> but from a polished perspective, I think >> but from a polished perspective, I think the thing that really struck people the thing that really struck people the thing that really struck people about File Pilot is it's it's lightning about File Pilot is it's it's lightning about File Pilot is it's it's lightning fast. It is as fast as a fast. It is as fast as a fast. It is as fast as a >> because I always ask myself the >> because I always ask myself the >> because I always ask myself the question, why can I run Assassin's Creed question, why can I run Assassin's Creed question, why can I run Assassin's Creed at 100 frames a second, at 100 frames a second, at 100 frames a second, >> but I can't resize this window without >> but I can't resize this window without >> but I can't resize this window without it feeling janky?

it feeling janky? it feeling janky? >> But but it appears that you're doing uh >> But but it appears that you're doing uh >> But but it appears that you're doing uh is it is it an I mean is this custom GPU is it is it an I mean is this custom GPU is it is it an I mean is this custom GPU accelerated with OpenGL? Did you do your accelerated with OpenGL? Did you do your accelerated with OpenGL? Did you do your own shader pipeline? own shader pipeline? own shader pipeline? >> Yeah, it is. It is. But I do plan to to >> Yeah, it is. It is. But I do plan to to >> Yeah, it is. It is. But I do plan to to move to DirectX because I've had a move to DirectX because I've had a move to DirectX because I've had a really really bad experience with really really bad experience with really really bad experience with OpenGL. [clears throat] OpenGL. [clears throat] OpenGL. [clears throat] Like a lot of people uh have crazy bugs Like a lot of people uh have crazy bugs Like a lot of people uh have crazy bugs with uh OpenGL drivers and and stuff with uh OpenGL drivers and and stuff with uh OpenGL drivers and and stuff like that. So I hope to move to DirectX like that. So I hope to move to DirectX like that. So I hope to move to DirectX at the beginning of the next year at the beginning of the next year at the beginning of the next year >> and so hopefully stuff will be a bit >> and so hopefully stuff will be a bit >> and so hopefully stuff will be a bit more uh stable there. But yeah, it's more uh stable there. But yeah, it's more uh stable there. But yeah, it's it's completely custom like the renderer it's completely custom like the renderer it's completely custom like the renderer is OpenGL and the UI frame framework is is OpenGL and the UI frame framework is is OpenGL and the UI frame framework is built on top of it. It's it's also mine. built on top of it. It's it's also mine. built on top of it. It's it's also mine. Um it's using immediate mode uh UI Um it's using immediate mode uh UI Um it's using immediate mode uh UI paradigm. Um so yeah, everything paradigm. Um so yeah, everything paradigm. Um so yeah, everything everything that you see is is pretty everything that you see is is pretty everything that you see is is pretty much written from scratch. much written from scratch. much written from scratch. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> some people on on Twitter and social >> some people on on Twitter and social >> some people on on Twitter and social media, some positive, some negative, media, some positive, some negative, media, some positive, some negative, look at something like File Pilot and look at something like File Pilot and look at something like File Pilot and they think of it as a a vote against they think of it as a a vote against they think of it as a a vote against Windows Explorer and the kind of growing Windows Explorer and the kind of growing Windows Explorer and the kind of growing complexity of something like Windows complexity of something like Windows complexity of something like Windows Explorer. Even though this is a win32 Explorer. Even though this is a win32 Explorer. Even though this is a win32 app that's written in C with a little app that's written in C with a little app that's written in C with a little bit of C++, this is not using wind32 bit of C++, this is not using wind32 bit of C++, this is not using wind32 user interface like you.

user interface like you. user interface like you. >> No, no, >> No, no, >> No, no, >> it is it is a game effectively. It's a >> it is it is a game effectively. It's a >> it is it is a game effectively. It's a canvas canvas canvas >> pretty much. Yeah. Uh like I told you >> pretty much. Yeah. Uh like I told you >> pretty much. Yeah. Uh like I told you prior to this to this stream like I come prior to this to this stream like I come prior to this to this stream like I come from uh game industry. So I I ran a game from uh game industry. So I I ran a game from uh game industry. So I I ran a game development company for more than a development company for more than a development company for more than a decade. So this is just my background decade. So this is just my background decade. So this is just my background and I I wanted to apply that knowledge and I I wanted to apply that knowledge and I I wanted to apply that knowledge to to to the apps because when I was uh to to to the apps because when I was uh to to to the apps because when I was uh when I was doing games I was always when I was doing games I was always when I was doing games I was always frustrated with some of the tooling. It frustrated with some of the tooling. It frustrated with some of the tooling. It was usually slow and and game developers was usually slow and and game developers was usually slow and and game developers are famous famous for uh for yeah for are famous famous for uh for yeah for are famous famous for uh for yeah for quoting apps uh and saying how how slow quoting apps uh and saying how how slow quoting apps uh and saying how how slow they are and how how games can run like they are and how how games can run like they are and how how games can run like the things you said how games can run at the things you said how games can run at the things you said how games can run at 60 220 FPS per second and and apps like 60 220 FPS per second and and apps like 60 220 FPS per second and and apps like struggle with resizing a window or struggle with resizing a window or struggle with resizing a window or something like that. It's it's it's like something like that. It's it's it's like something like that. It's it's it's like two different universes. I I I don't two different universes. I I I don't two different universes. I I I don't know why that is, but know why that is, but know why that is, but >> yeah, it does make you wonder like if I >> yeah, it does make you wonder like if I >> yeah, it does make you wonder like if I know this is a simplistic and dumb thing know this is a simplistic and dumb thing know this is a simplistic and dumb thing to say, but like why don't we rewrite to say, but like why don't we rewrite to say, but like why don't we rewrite the entire operating system like a game, the entire operating system like a game, the entire operating system like a game, but ultimately this is an old school but ultimately this is an old school but ultimately this is an old school >> and I say this with with respect and >> and I say this with with respect and >> and I say this with with respect and admiration. It's an old school admiration. It's an old school admiration. It's an old school philosophy of development because you've philosophy of development because you've philosophy of development because you've made a 2.3 megabyte file, a single made a 2.3 megabyte file, a single made a 2.3 megabyte file, a single executable.

executable. executable. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> With only 14 DL dependencies, >> With only 14 DL dependencies, >> With only 14 DL dependencies, >> and you're only calling about I did an >> and you're only calling about I did an >> and you're only calling about I did an analysis, by the way, before the analysis, by the way, before the analysis, by the way, before the interview. You're calling 312 imported interview. You're calling 312 imported interview. You're calling 312 imported functions. Your API surface is minimal. functions. Your API surface is minimal. functions. Your API surface is minimal. Um, and Um, and Um, and >> and to me to me that that's actually a >> and to me to me that that's actually a >> and to me to me that that's actually a big number. it would be far far less if big number. it would be far far less if big number. it would be far far less if I weren't like developing a file I weren't like developing a file I weren't like developing a file explorer which has a tight connection to explorer which has a tight connection to explorer which has a tight connection to the to the OS. So I have to call a lot the to the OS. So I have to call a lot the to the OS. So I have to call a lot of function to retrieve files and of function to retrieve files and of function to retrieve files and thumbnails and stuff like that. So it thumbnails and stuff like that. So it thumbnails and stuff like that. So it would be a lot less if I were doing would be a lot less if I were doing would be a lot less if I were doing something that's not that integrated something that's not that integrated something that's not that integrated into into into Windows. into into into Windows. into into into Windows. >> Mhm. [snorts] And and you also don't >> Mhm. [snorts] And and you also don't >> Mhm. [snorts] And and you also don't even have a runtime dependency on VC even have a runtime dependency on VC even have a runtime dependency on VC runtime. You statically link the C runtime. You statically link the C runtime. You statically link the C runtime. No, I don't even link it. I No, runtime. No, I don't even link it. I No, runtime. No, I don't even link it. I No, I I just throw it away. Like I I did all I I just throw it away. Like I I did all I I just throw it away. Like I I did all the standard library thing myself. Yeah. the standard library thing myself. Yeah. the standard library thing myself. Yeah. >> Yourself? Oh my goodness. >> Yourself? Oh my goodness. >> Yourself? Oh my goodness. >> So then when people on social media who >> So then when people on social media who >> So then when people on social media who are like we call them like armchair are like we call them like armchair are like we call them like armchair quarterbacks, it's like an armchair quarterbacks, it's like an armchair quarterbacks, it's like an armchair programmer like oh you [clears throat] programmer like oh you [clears throat] programmer like oh you [clears throat] know look at what Vakaslav has done.

know look at what Vakaslav has done. know look at what Vakaslav has done. This is why Windows sucks. This is why This is why Windows sucks. This is why This is why Windows sucks. This is why that sucks. Is is this something that we that sucks. Is is this something that we that sucks. Is is this something that we should all try to be like? Is this a should all try to be like? Is this a should all try to be like? Is this a level of quality that everyone should level of quality that everyone should level of quality that everyone should try to have or is do you think this is try to have or is do you think this is try to have or is do you think this is sustainable? If you ran like if you ran sustainable? If you ran like if you ran sustainable? If you ran like if you ran the Windows or you ran the Linux the Windows or you ran the Linux the Windows or you ran the Linux desktop, could everything in our lives desktop, could everything in our lives desktop, could everything in our lives be this good and this fast? be this good and this fast? be this good and this fast? >> I don't know. I I hope that it could be. >> I don't know. I I hope that it could be. >> I don't know. I I hope that it could be. Um I I don't think I'm in a position to Um I I don't think I'm in a position to Um I I don't think I'm in a position to to say something like that because I to say something like that because I to say something like that because I don't have enough experience in all don't have enough experience in all don't have enough experience in all spheres that uh Windows is doing. But I spheres that uh Windows is doing. But I spheres that uh Windows is doing. But I would certainly like to see more of would certainly like to see more of would certainly like to see more of this. Um like I I'm not afraid of this. Um like I I'm not afraid of this. Um like I I'm not afraid of competition. I I would like to see more competition. I I would like to see more competition. I I would like to see more apps like written in this way. I would apps like written in this way. I would apps like written in this way. I would like more people to be like passionate like more people to be like passionate like more people to be like passionate about the craft. about the craft. about the craft. >> Um and yeah, I don't know. Um, >> Um and yeah, I don't know. Um, >> Um and yeah, I don't know. Um, >> I think that it has got people excited >> I think that it has got people excited >> I think that it has got people excited because because because there's a lot of electron right now.

there's a lot of electron right now. there's a lot of electron right now. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> there's a lot of, you know, the the the >> there's a lot of, you know, the the the >> there's a lot of, you know, the the the stack is very deep stack is very deep stack is very deep >> and when someone comes out with a single >> and when someone comes out with a single >> and when someone comes out with a single statically linked thing, static just statically linked thing, static just statically linked thing, static just like boom, two megs, let's go. like boom, two megs, let's go. like boom, two megs, let's go. >> It's almost it almost reminds me I'm not >> It's almost it almost reminds me I'm not >> It's almost it almost reminds me I'm not sure how old you are, but it reminds me sure how old you are, but it reminds me sure how old you are, but it reminds me of the demo scene of the demo scene of the demo scene >> where it's like you have 4K, what can >> where it's like you have 4K, what can >> where it's like you have 4K, what can you do? you do? you do? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. something like that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. something like that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, initially, um, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, initially, um, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, initially, um, File Pilot and this style of File Pilot and this style of File Pilot and this style of programming, uh, I was initially programming, uh, I was initially programming, uh, I was initially inspired by Handmade Hero. I don't know inspired by Handmade Hero. I don't know inspired by Handmade Hero. I don't know if you've heard of that series. It's if you've heard of that series. It's if you've heard of that series. It's it's it was essenti writing a game from scratch every night. writing a game from scratch every night. Uh, it was decade ago. Um, and a lot of Uh, it was decade ago. Um, and a lot of Uh, it was decade ago. Um, and a lot of people, yeah, a lot of people picked up people, yeah, a lot of people picked up people, yeah, a lot of people picked up that uh philosophy and I was hugely that uh philosophy and I was hugely that uh philosophy and I was hugely inspired by that and I applied a lot of inspired by that and I applied a lot of inspired by that and I applied a lot of that knowledge to my uh to the stuff I that knowledge to my uh to the stuff I that knowledge to my uh to the stuff I did in my at my old company and I always did in my at my old company and I always did in my at my old company and I always had an urge to try to apply this to some had an urge to try to apply this to some had an urge to try to apply this to some um some native application. So I don't um some native application. So I don't um some native application. So I don't know why but I just started to work on know why but I just started to work on know why but I just started to work on file managers probably because that was file managers probably because that was file managers probably because that was the time when I um I realized that you the time when I um I realized that you the time when I um I realized that you don't have to that you have like don't have to that you have like don't have to that you have like alternative alternatives to file alternative alternatives to file alternative alternatives to file managers on Windows. I didn't know that managers on Windows. I didn't know that managers on Windows. I didn't know that before.

before. before. >> So I I at one point point I tried pretty >> So I I at one point point I tried pretty >> So I I at one point point I tried pretty much all of them. I was pretty much all of them. I was pretty much all of them. I was pretty fascinated by by that market. I didn't fascinated by by that market. I didn't fascinated by by that market. I didn't know about it before. [clears throat] know about it before. [clears throat] know about it before. [clears throat] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And then you just said I'm gonna build a >> And then you just said I'm gonna build a >> And then you just said I'm gonna build a business around this. business around this. business around this. >> I didn't know it was going to be a >> I didn't know it was going to be a >> I didn't know it was going to be a business. Uh but yeah, in 2022 I left my business. Uh but yeah, in 2022 I left my business. Uh but yeah, in 2022 I left my old company pretty much for some old company pretty much for some old company pretty much for some personal reasons. personal reasons. personal reasons. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> But uh I had like this toy project that >> But uh I had like this toy project that >> But uh I had like this toy project that I was working in my free time and I I was working in my free time and I I was working in my free time and I don't know I just I researched a market don't know I just I researched a market don't know I just I researched a market for a bit and I saw a gap here because for a bit and I saw a gap here because for a bit and I saw a gap here because pretty much all file managers were pretty much all file managers were pretty much all file managers were pretty old at that time. So so some of pretty old at that time. So so some of pretty old at that time. So so some of those are written like in n in the '9s. those are written like in n in the '9s. those are written like in n in the '9s. So for very very early versions of So for very very early versions of So for very very early versions of Windows, Windows 95 and Windows 98. Windows, Windows 95 and Windows 98. Windows, Windows 95 and Windows 98. >> Um, and when you see them, you you can >> Um, and when you see them, you you can >> Um, and when you see them, you you can notice because they are built with the notice because they are built with the notice because they are built with the with the Windows built-in u um GU.

with the Windows built-in u um GU. with the Windows built-in u um GU. >> They're not built the way I build them. >> They're not built the way I build them. >> They're not built the way I build them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> What how do you decide what you bring in >> What how do you decide what you bring in >> What how do you decide what you bring in versus what you do yourself? because versus what you do yourself? because versus what you do yourself? because this is a 2025 version of a kind of this is a 2025 version of a kind of this is a 2025 version of a kind of software that we wrote in like 1995. software that we wrote in like 1995. software that we wrote in like 1995. Like I've written apps like this. Uh, Like I've written apps like this. Uh, Like I've written apps like this. Uh, another example would be like um Mark another example would be like um Mark another example would be like um Mark Rinovich's Zoom It like for the longest Rinovich's Zoom It like for the longest Rinovich's Zoom It like for the longest time was a single main C that's was time was a single main C that's was time was a single main C that's was about, you know, 5,000 lines of tight C about, you know, 5,000 lines of tight C about, you know, 5,000 lines of tight C code. And now it's got a little bit more code. And now it's got a little bit more code. And now it's got a little bit more to it. to it. to it. >> But um, from the analysis that I did, >> But um, from the analysis that I did, >> But um, from the analysis that I did, you have like a windm and you have like you have like a windm and you have like you have like a windm and you have like a wind font rasterizer.cpp. Other than a wind font rasterizer.cpp. Other than a wind font rasterizer.cpp. Other than the the the >> other I have maybe I have yeah I have >> other I have maybe I have yeah I have >> other I have maybe I have yeah I have maybe maybe maybe >> 10 C files that's that's about it. >> 10 C files that's that's about it. >> 10 C files that's that's about it. >> And then do you have one C++ file for >> And then do you have one C++ file for >> And then do you have one C++ file for the font rasterization? the font rasterization? the font rasterization? >> Uh yeah because that's direct write uh >> Uh yeah because that's direct write uh >> Uh yeah because that's direct write uh code and that is that code is title code and that is that code is title code and that is that code is title coupled to the C++. So I couldn't coupled to the C++. So I couldn't coupled to the C++. So I couldn't couldn't write that in C. It's it was couldn't write that in C. It's it was couldn't write that in C. It's it was too much of a struggle. Yeah. And it's a too much of a struggle. Yeah. And it's a too much of a struggle. Yeah. And it's a very small file. It's maybe 200 lines.

very small file. It's maybe 200 lines. very small file. It's maybe 200 lines. Did you did you decide I'm going to make Did you did you decide I'm going to make Did you did you decide I'm going to make this two megs or did it just end up this two megs or did it just end up this two megs or did it just end up being two megs? being two megs? being two megs? >> It it just ended up being two megs. >> It it just ended up being two megs. >> It it just ended up being two megs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. And >> Okay. And >> Okay. And >> my my philosophy was I'm just going to >> my my philosophy was I'm just going to >> my my philosophy was I'm just going to try to build everything from scratch try to build everything from scratch try to build everything from scratch everything except the the the parts that everything except the the the parts that everything except the the the parts that I need to use from Windows, I need to use from Windows, I need to use from Windows, >> but other than that, pretty much >> but other than that, pretty much >> but other than that, pretty much everything. So from from opening a everything. So from from opening a everything. So from from opening a window to uh to the renderer and UI and window to uh to the renderer and UI and window to uh to the renderer and UI and and handling input and pretty much and handling input and pretty much and handling input and pretty much everything, handling strings, handling everything, handling strings, handling everything, handling strings, handling memory, threads, everything. Mhm. Yeah. memory, threads, everything. Mhm. Yeah. memory, threads, everything. Mhm. Yeah. >> One of the things that is different now >> One of the things that is different now >> One of the things that is different now in 2025 that we didn't really have in in 2025 that we didn't really have in in 2025 that we didn't really have in the '90s was really smart threading and the '90s was really smart threading and the '90s was really smart threading and asynchronous asynchrony. One of the asynchronous asynchrony. One of the asynchronous asynchrony. One of the things that's just kind of deeply things that's just kind of deeply things that's just kind of deeply impressive about File Pilot to me is impressive about File Pilot to me is impressive about File Pilot to me is >> it's fast to show you something, but if >> it's fast to show you something, but if >> it's fast to show you something, but if something else comes in, it will do it something else comes in, it will do it something else comes in, it will do it asynchronously. So, for example, asynchronously. So, for example, asynchronously. So, for example, >> uh for folks that are listening and >> uh for folks that are listening and >> uh for folks that are listening and maybe can't see this, if you rightclick maybe can't see this, if you rightclick maybe can't see this, if you rightclick on a folder, on a folder, on a folder, >> one of the things that has historically >> one of the things that has historically >> one of the things that has historically been challenging with Windows Explorer been challenging with Windows Explorer been challenging with Windows Explorer is that there's lots of opportunities is that there's lots of opportunities is that there's lots of opportunities for someone to register themselves as a for someone to register themselves as a for someone to register themselves as a handler and you have to run around in handler and you have to run around in handler and you have to run around in the registry and go and see who's the registry and go and see who's the registry and go and see who's interested in this thing. So, if you interested in this thing. So, if you interested in this thing. So, if you rightclick on a folder, uh there'd be rightclick on a folder, uh there'd be rightclick on a folder, uh there'd be this kind of like pause and then you this kind of like pause and then you this kind of like pause and then you would wait for the window and the and would wait for the window and the and would wait for the window and the and the menu to render. But in FilePilot, the menu to render. But in FilePilot, the menu to render. But in FilePilot, the the menu comes up instantly and then the the menu comes up instantly and then the the menu comes up instantly and then you kind of see this like as it like you kind of see this like as it like you kind of see this like as it like asynchronously fills in whatever it asynchronously fills in whatever it asynchronously fills in whatever it needs to fill in. But you're not needs to fill in. But you're not needs to fill in. But you're not >> Are we talking about right click context >> Are we talking about right click context >> Are we talking about right click context menu?

menu? menu? >> Right click context menu >> Right click context menu >> Right click context menu >> because that's the it's funny that you >> because that's the it's funny that you >> because that's the it's funny that you that you mentioned because it's the only that you mentioned because it's the only that you mentioned because it's the only thing that's not multi-threaded in Val. thing that's not multi-threaded in Val. thing that's not multi-threaded in Val. >> Okay, then maybe I'm assuming because >> Okay, then maybe I'm assuming because >> Okay, then maybe I'm assuming because it's just so fast. When are you when are it's just so fast. When are you when are it's just so fast. When are you when are you populating? Like I just rightclicked you populating? Like I just rightclicked you populating? Like I just rightclicked and I have 12 separate icons that are and I have 12 separate icons that are and I have 12 separate icons that are like open with this, unlock with file like open with this, unlock with file like open with this, unlock with file locksmith, open with file pilot, open locksmith, open with file pilot, open locksmith, open with file pilot, open with code, open with warp. with code, open with warp. with code, open with warp. >> When did you cache all of that? >> When did you cache all of that? >> When did you cache all of that? >> I didn't like when you when you when you >> I didn't like when you when you when you >> I didn't like when you when you when you click it, I call the API and I populate click it, I call the API and I populate click it, I call the API and I populate it. Yeah. The only difference is I'm not it. Yeah. The only difference is I'm not it. Yeah. The only difference is I'm not using uh Windows uh UI for that. I just using uh Windows uh UI for that. I just using uh Windows uh UI for that. I just I just want to fetch all the uh the data I just want to fetch all the uh the data I just want to fetch all the uh the data for for the items and then I render it for for the items and then I render it for for the items and then I render it myself. Yeah. myself. Yeah. myself. Yeah. >> No, I stand corrected. So, the right >> No, I stand corrected. So, the right >> No, I stand corrected. So, the right click menu is is synchronous and it's click menu is is synchronous and it's click menu is is synchronous and it's still still still >> Yes, but I want to move it to the >> Yes, but I want to move it to the >> Yes, but I want to move it to the separate thread. But that's actually a separate thread. But that's actually a separate thread. But that's actually a bit harder than you would think because bit harder than you would think because bit harder than you would think because I think that a lot of those extensions I think that a lot of those extensions I think that a lot of those extensions were probably written with main thread were probably written with main thread were probably written with main thread context.

context. context. >> Uh, so every time I try to move that to >> Uh, so every time I try to move that to >> Uh, so every time I try to move that to the separate thread, something would the separate thread, something would the separate thread, something would break break break >> and some something would not work. Yeah, >> and some something would not work. Yeah, >> and some something would not work. Yeah, it's it's it's it's probably just a it's it's it's it's probably just a it's it's it's it's probably just a legacy problem at this point, but I I legacy problem at this point, but I I legacy problem at this point, but I I need to connect with some folks uh in need to connect with some folks uh in need to connect with some folks uh in Microsoft that that knows uh that know Microsoft that that knows uh that know Microsoft that that knows uh that know those internal stuff. those internal stuff. those internal stuff. >> I'm happy to make that introduction >> I'm happy to make that introduction >> I'm happy to make that introduction anytime. anytime. anytime. >> Yeah, that would be great. Yeah. >> Yeah, that would be great. Yeah. >> Yeah, that would be great. Yeah. >> Are there any issues that you've had >> Are there any issues that you've had >> Are there any issues that you've had where you hit a bug and you were just where you hit a bug and you were just where you hit a bug and you were just like unable to work around it? What's like unable to work around it? What's like unable to work around it? What's the hardest thing that got you this that the hardest thing that got you this that the hardest thing that got you this that got you stuck the longest when you're got you stuck the longest when you're got you stuck the longest when you're writing File Pilot? writing File Pilot? writing File Pilot? probably the the the thing we just uh probably the the the thing we just uh probably the the the thing we just uh discussed. So it's usually it's usually discussed. So it's usually it's usually discussed. So it's usually it's usually something that I call from Windows and something that I call from Windows and something that I call from Windows and uh the reason for that is because that's uh the reason for that is because that's uh the reason for that is because that's the code that I don't control and I the code that I don't control and I the code that I don't control and I don't have insight into. So and not only don't have insight into. So and not only don't have insight into. So and not only that, it's also because I'm using a lot that, it's also because I'm using a lot that, it's also because I'm using a lot of old APIs. So it's it's kind of hard of old APIs. So it's it's kind of hard of old APIs. So it's it's kind of hard to find people with whom you can talk to find people with whom you can talk to find people with whom you can talk about stuff like that because most about stuff like that because most about stuff like that because most people will not use those APIs anymore.

people will not use those APIs anymore. people will not use those APIs anymore. It's it's like it's old school. Um so It's it's like it's old school. Um so It's it's like it's old school. Um so when I when I so for instance for right when I when I so for instance for right when I when I so for instance for right click context menu and the other one is click context menu and the other one is click context menu and the other one is um drag and drop. Drag and drop was also um drag and drop. Drag and drop was also um drag and drop. Drag and drop was also the one that that gave me a lot of the one that that gave me a lot of the one that that gave me a lot of trouble. Um, and it's mostly stable now trouble. Um, and it's mostly stable now trouble. Um, and it's mostly stable now in File Pilot, but I still have a couple in File Pilot, but I still have a couple in File Pilot, but I still have a couple of bugs uh that I don't know how to fix. of bugs uh that I don't know how to fix. of bugs uh that I don't know how to fix. >> Um, >> Um, >> Um, >> but yeah. >> but yeah. >> but yeah. >> Are they your bugs? Are they Windows >> Are they your bugs? Are they Windows >> Are they your bugs? Are they Windows bugs? bugs? bugs? >> I wouldn't call them bugs. It's it's >> I wouldn't call them bugs. It's it's >> I wouldn't call them bugs. It's it's probably just the things I don't fully probably just the things I don't fully probably just the things I don't fully understand. Uh, or I don't know how to understand. Uh, or I don't know how to understand. Uh, or I don't know how to set it up uh so that Windows is happy. set it up uh so that Windows is happy. set it up uh so that Windows is happy. >> I don't know. That's why I said I need I >> I don't know. That's why I said I need I >> I don't know. That's why I said I need I I would need to talk with someone who I would need to talk with someone who I would need to talk with someone who who has more experience in in um code who has more experience in in um code who has more experience in in um code like that. And it's hard to find people like that. And it's hard to find people like that. And it's hard to find people like that today because most of people like that today because most of people like that today because most of people like most most of people are ju just like most most of people are ju just like most most of people are ju just moved to to the other platforms to the moved to to the other platforms to the moved to to the other platforms to the net and and stuff like that. net and and stuff like that. net and and stuff like that. >> How do we teach the next generation this >> How do we teach the next generation this >> How do we teach the next generation this stuff? Because it does feel sometimes stuff? Because it does feel sometimes stuff? Because it does feel sometimes like well you're advocating for tight like well you're advocating for tight like well you're advocating for tight crisp clean C code that has minimal crisp clean C code that has minimal crisp clean C code that has minimal dependencies. Other people are like dependencies. Other people are like dependencies. Other people are like let's just relight rewrite the entire let's just relight rewrite the entire let's just relight rewrite the entire operating system in Electron. It just operating system in Electron. It just operating system in Electron. It just feels like everyone's everyone's doing a feels like everyone's everyone's doing a feels like everyone's everyone's doing a React, you know, component these days.

React, you know, component these days. React, you know, component these days. >> Yeah. And it's going to get probably >> Yeah. And it's going to get probably >> Yeah. And it's going to get probably even worse with with the AI and and all even worse with with the AI and and all even worse with with the AI and and all of that. It's because I think that as of that. It's because I think that as of that. It's because I think that as the time goes on, more and more and more the time goes on, more and more and more the time goes on, more and more and more people will be decoupled from the from people will be decoupled from the from people will be decoupled from the from the actual computer hardware hardware. the actual computer hardware hardware. the actual computer hardware hardware. Um, so I don't know. I don't know. I Um, so I don't know. I don't know. I Um, so I don't know. I don't know. I don't know how to learn those people. So don't know how to learn those people. So don't know how to learn those people. So as I said, Handmade Hero was the thing as I said, Handmade Hero was the thing as I said, Handmade Hero was the thing that clicked for me. that clicked for me. that clicked for me. >> But I don't know I don't know what I >> But I don't know I don't know what I >> But I don't know I don't know what I don't know where people start today when don't know where people start today when don't know where people start today when when someone wants to learn a when someone wants to learn a when someone wants to learn a programming. I don't know where they programming. I don't know where they programming. I don't know where they start. Do they just start typing in CHJT start. Do they just start typing in CHJT start. Do they just start typing in CHJT or what? I don't know. Um or what? I don't know. Um or what? I don't know. Um but I don't anticipate that it will get but I don't anticipate that it will get but I don't anticipate that it will get better. better. better. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> To be honest. Yeah. So Casey Murritori >> To be honest. Yeah. So Casey Murritori >> To be honest. Yeah. So Casey Murritori who did Handmade Hero uh he's a game who did Handmade Hero uh he's a game who did Handmade Hero uh he's a game developer also. Is is this something developer also. Is is this something developer also. Is is this something that you think is for game developers to that you think is for game developers to that you think is for game developers to kind of come back to the UI people and kind of come back to the UI people and kind of come back to the UI people and teach us these things and teach us these teach us these things and teach us these teach us these things and teach us these techniques techniques techniques >> or because I I'm just wondering like >> or because I I'm just wondering like >> or because I I'm just wondering like there's a speed at which you can get there's a speed at which you can get there's a speed at which you can get things done things done things done >> in electron and it is it's a kind of a >> in electron and it is it's a kind of a >> in electron and it is it's a kind of a drug because it's like look how fast I drug because it's like look how fast I drug because it's like look how fast I did this.

did this. did this. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I assume that you didn't do this >> And I assume that you didn't do this >> And I assume that you didn't do this very fast. This is one application very fast. This is one application very fast. This is one application you've been working on at speed for a you've been working on at speed for a you've been working on at speed for a while. There's a lot of thought put into while. There's a lot of thought put into while. There's a lot of thought put into file pilot. file pilot. file pilot. >> It is. Yeah. Um >> It is. Yeah. Um >> It is. Yeah. Um the biggest speed improvement when the biggest speed improvement when the biggest speed improvement when rendering UI is probably from the rendering UI is probably from the rendering UI is probably from the immediate mode uh approach. So instead immediate mode uh approach. So instead immediate mode uh approach. So instead of so the other one that that standard of so the other one that that standard of so the other one that that standard apps use is um is retain mode. So apps use is um is retain mode. So apps use is um is retain mode. So whenever something changes in the UI, whenever something changes in the UI, whenever something changes in the UI, you check which part of the UI changed you check which part of the UI changed you check which part of the UI changed and you render only that part and that's and you render only that part and that's and you render only that part and that's how traditionally uh UIs were written. how traditionally uh UIs were written. how traditionally uh UIs were written. Uh but immediate mode UI is pretty much Uh but immediate mode UI is pretty much Uh but immediate mode UI is pretty much every every frame you render everything every every frame you render everything every every frame you render everything everything from scratch but you have to everything from scratch but you have to everything from scratch but you have to make it really really fast. So you can make it really really fast. So you can make it really really fast. So you can do that do that do that >> once you have that everything is so much >> once you have that everything is so much >> once you have that everything is so much simpler and easier because each frame simpler and easier because each frame simpler and easier because each frame you just declare what you want to draw you just declare what you want to draw you just declare what you want to draw and that's it. And that's pretty much and that's it. And that's pretty much and that's it. And that's pretty much how most of the games work. how most of the games work. how most of the games work. >> And that's that's that's probably the >> And that's that's that's probably the >> And that's that's that's probably the reason why why games can do sometimes reason why why games can do sometimes reason why why games can do sometimes more advanced stuff, at least on the more advanced stuff, at least on the more advanced stuff, at least on the graphics front.

graphics front. graphics front. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Now, I've got a I've got four monitors >> Now, I've got a I've got four monitors >> Now, I've got a I've got four monitors and I'm moving I have four monitors that and I'm moving I have four monitors that and I'm moving I have four monitors that they're all different resolutions and they're all different resolutions and they're all different resolutions and all different DPIs. And one of the all different DPIs. And one of the all different DPIs. And one of the things that Windows will say with like things that Windows will say with like things that Windows will say with like one of the reasons you want to use a WPF one of the reasons you want to use a WPF one of the reasons you want to use a WPF or something like that is like free DPI or something like that is like free DPI or something like that is like free DPI support. And I'm looking and seeing how support. And I'm looking and seeing how support. And I'm looking and seeing how you move between you move between you move between between windows and I'm not seeing you between windows and I'm not seeing you between windows and I'm not seeing you switch DPIs as I move from place to switch DPIs as I move from place to switch DPIs as I move from place to place. Are you thinking about like place. Are you thinking about like place. Are you thinking about like supporting every monitor and every every supporting every monitor and every every supporting every monitor and every every DPI and every kind of window geometry or DPI and every kind of window geometry or DPI and every kind of window geometry or is that something that you you care is that something that you you care is that something that you you care about? about? about? >> Do you do your monitors uh have >> Do you do your monitors uh have >> Do you do your monitors uh have different DPI DPIs or different DPI DPIs or different DPI DPIs or >> Yeah. So like these three are 150 and >> Yeah. So like these three are 150 and >> Yeah. So like these three are 150 and this one's 125 this one's 125 this one's 125 >> because I do uh recalculate DPI based on >> because I do uh recalculate DPI based on >> because I do uh recalculate DPI based on the on the monitor windows uh is at and the on the monitor windows uh is at and the on the monitor windows uh is at and >> ah okay I'm looking I see that the size >> ah okay I'm looking I see that the size >> ah okay I'm looking I see that the size changes but not the the size of the changes but not the the size of the changes but not the the size of the objects on the on the screen.

objects on the on the screen. objects on the on the screen. >> Uh >> Uh >> Uh >> the folders are the same size. >> the folders are the same size. >> the folders are the same size. >> Folders are the same size. Yeah. But >> Folders are the same size. Yeah. But >> Folders are the same size. Yeah. But font should change and everything else font should change and everything else font should change and everything else is dependent on the font. So is dependent on the font. So is dependent on the font. So >> that's really clever. >> that's really clever. >> that's really clever. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's that's just the way I >> Yeah. Yeah. That's that's just the way I >> Yeah. Yeah. That's that's just the way I architect it. I'm not sure if it's the architect it. I'm not sure if it's the architect it. I'm not sure if it's the best way, but best way, but best way, but >> Well, no. I I'm I'm I'm actually giving >> Well, no. I I'm I'm I'm actually giving >> Well, no. I I'm I'm I'm actually giving you in in asking about your philosophy. you in in asking about your philosophy. you in in asking about your philosophy. I'm seeing something really interesting I'm seeing something really interesting I'm seeing something really interesting with Windows. They basically scale the with Windows. They basically scale the with Windows. They basically scale the entire thing. You've actually chosen not entire thing. You've actually chosen not entire thing. You've actually chosen not to scale the folders and chosen to scale to scale the folders and chosen to scale to scale the folders and chosen to scale the fonts. And the the the visual that the fonts. And the the the visual that the fonts. And the the the visual that it gave me made me think you weren't it gave me made me think you weren't it gave me made me think you weren't scaling at all. But in fact, there's scaling at all. But in fact, there's scaling at all. But in fact, there's less of a of a pop because you know on less of a of a pop because you know on less of a of a pop because you know on Windows when you move Windows when you move Windows when you move >> there's like a moment where more than >> there's like a moment where more than >> there's like a moment where more than 50% has moved and then there's a drama. 50% has moved and then there's a drama. 50% has moved and then there's a drama. >> Uh there's there's less drama when you >> Uh there's there's less drama when you >> Uh there's there's less drama when you move File Pilot between monitors which move File Pilot between monitors which move File Pilot between monitors which is really cool. is really cool. is really cool. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Yeah. But you expected you expected for >> Yeah. But you expected you expected for >> Yeah. But you expected you expected for uh folder icons to change too, right? I uh folder icons to change too, right? I uh folder icons to change too, right? I well I only expected it because I well I only expected it because I well I only expected it because I thought because I'm used to how things thought because I'm used to how things thought because I'm used to how things already work and you're breaking the already work and you're breaking the already work and you're breaking the rules because you're making your own rules because you're making your own rules because you're making your own rules.

rules. rules. >> Cuz like right now if I'm on a small >> Cuz like right now if I'm on a small >> Cuz like right now if I'm on a small monitor and I drag to the big monitor, monitor and I drag to the big monitor, monitor and I drag to the big monitor, nothing happens on the drag nothing happens on the drag nothing happens on the drag >> until I go mouse up and the drag >> until I go mouse up and the drag >> until I go mouse up and the drag completes completes completes >> and then it looks like you recalculate >> and then it looks like you recalculate >> and then it looks like you recalculate which is cool. which is cool. which is cool. >> Yeah. I mean the reason why it happens >> Yeah. I mean the reason why it happens >> Yeah. I mean the reason why it happens on mouse up because that's that's on mouse up because that's that's on mouse up because that's that's something that's specific to drag and something that's specific to drag and something that's specific to drag and drop in Windows. drop in Windows. drop in Windows. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, >> because when you're dragging the window, >> because when you're dragging the window, >> because when you're dragging the window, it enters the model loop and it's it enters the model loop and it's it enters the model loop and it's there's nothing I can do. Like the whole there's nothing I can do. Like the whole there's nothing I can do. Like the whole app goes into a different mode. That's app goes into a different mode. That's app goes into a different mode. That's just something that's specific to just something that's specific to just something that's specific to Windows. You probably know that. Yeah. Windows. You probably know that. Yeah. Windows. You probably know that. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's really cool because >> Yeah. Yeah. That's really cool because >> Yeah. Yeah. That's really cool because now that I'm I'm not dragging fast, I'm now that I'm I'm not dragging fast, I'm now that I'm I'm not dragging fast, I'm dragging slow and then doing a mouse up. dragging slow and then doing a mouse up. dragging slow and then doing a mouse up. Um I can see because I can hold that Um I can see because I can hold that Um I can see because I can hold that mouse and move it around between windows mouse and move it around between windows mouse and move it around between windows and then I go up and then I go ah and and then I go up and then I go ah and and then I go up and then I go ah and there's the recalculation which again there's the recalculation which again there's the recalculation which again >> is instantaneous. >> is instantaneous. >> is instantaneous. >> Yeah. So, you uh you had a a version out >> Yeah. So, you uh you had a a version out >> Yeah. So, you uh you had a a version out in February and you were kind of like in February and you were kind of like in February and you were kind of like quiet for a couple of months. You're quiet for a couple of months. You're quiet for a couple of months. You're really taking your time for quality cuz really taking your time for quality cuz really taking your time for quality cuz I kept visiting the site I kept visiting the site I kept visiting the site >> waiting for the next version.

>> waiting for the next version. >> waiting for the next version. >> I kept coming back like where's 0.5? Now >> I kept coming back like where's 0.5? Now >> I kept coming back like where's 0.5? Now we're on 063. we're on 063. we're on 063. >> Um when do you think you'll be done? Do >> Um when do you think you'll be done? Do >> Um when do you think you'll be done? Do you feel like that it'll ever be done or you feel like that it'll ever be done or you feel like that it'll ever be done or are you going to be one of those things are you going to be one of those things are you going to be one of those things like Gmail that you're always in beta? like Gmail that you're always in beta? like Gmail that you're always in beta? Uh [sighs] no no no not always in beta Uh [sighs] no no no not always in beta Uh [sighs] no no no not always in beta but um it it's it's a huge endeavor. So but um it it's it's a huge endeavor. So but um it it's it's a huge endeavor. So uh I hope to move out of the beta uh uh I hope to move out of the beta uh uh I hope to move out of the beta uh probably beginning or mid next year. Uh probably beginning or mid next year. Uh probably beginning or mid next year. Uh but after that I don't know there's so but after that I don't know there's so but after that I don't know there's so much stuff I want to try. Like I still much stuff I want to try. Like I still much stuff I want to try. Like I still haven't come to a place where I want to haven't come to a place where I want to haven't come to a place where I want to experiment with more new ideas. So experiment with more new ideas. So experiment with more new ideas. So currently I'm just trying to make currently I'm just trying to make currently I'm just trying to make something that most people are something that most people are something that most people are accustomed to when dealing with file accustomed to when dealing with file accustomed to when dealing with file managers, but I there's a ton of ideas I managers, but I there's a ton of ideas I managers, but I there's a ton of ideas I want to work try. want to work try. want to work try. >> And then there's like porting to to Mac >> And then there's like porting to to Mac >> And then there's like porting to to Mac OS and Linux if and stuff like that. So OS and Linux if and stuff like that. So OS and Linux if and stuff like that. So >> Oh, wow. >> Oh, wow. >> Oh, wow. >> So yeah, I'm going to have to uh find at >> So yeah, I'm going to have to uh find at >> So yeah, I'm going to have to uh find at least one more person uh next year. least one more person uh next year. least one more person uh next year. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. what you you had mentioned uh what >> Yeah. what you you had mentioned uh what >> Yeah. what you you had mentioned uh what you know AI and how AI is causing people you know AI and how AI is causing people you know AI and how AI is causing people to write a ton of code. I'm imagining to write a ton of code. I'm imagining to write a ton of code. I'm imagining you having another person inside of your you having another person inside of your you having another person inside of your your 10 C files and they might they your 10 C files and they might they your 10 C files and they might they might bump into you and I'm curious what might bump into you and I'm curious what might bump into you and I'm curious what your thoughts are about AI. Do you use your thoughts are about AI. Do you use your thoughts are about AI. Do you use it at all for analysis to learn or are it at all for analysis to learn or are it at all for analysis to learn or are you just hands off no AI for me? Um I do you just hands off no AI for me? Um I do you just hands off no AI for me? Um I do use it but use it but use it but to a very very um so to me Chad GPT is

to a very very um so to me Chad GPT is to a very very um so to me Chad GPT is like improved Google. like improved Google. like improved Google. >> So um often times I will when I'm not >> So um often times I will when I'm not >> So um often times I will when I'm not sure what to look for or when I can't sure what to look for or when I can't sure what to look for or when I can't remember exactly what I'm looking for remember exactly what I'm looking for remember exactly what I'm looking for but I know what I but I know what I need but I know what I but I know what I need but I know what I but I know what I need but I I just can't remember what what but I I just can't remember what what but I I just can't remember what what are the words. So I will put it in the are the words. So I will put it in the are the words. So I will put it in the CHP CHP CHP >> but uh after that I'm usually in the >> but uh after that I'm usually in the >> but uh after that I'm usually in the official docs and checking every official docs and checking every official docs and checking every parameter because I've been I've tried parameter because I've been I've tried parameter because I've been I've tried uh I've tried writing some code with it uh I've tried writing some code with it uh I've tried writing some code with it but I've been bitten a couple of times but I've been bitten a couple of times but I've been bitten a couple of times because um they often hallucinate. So because um they often hallucinate. So because um they often hallucinate. So that's yeah that's one of the problems that's yeah that's one of the problems that's yeah that's one of the problems and and and >> to me so uh when we talk about AI I >> to me so uh when we talk about AI I >> to me so uh when we talk about AI I think it's a great productivity boost think it's a great productivity boost think it's a great productivity boost for people who already know how to solve for people who already know how to solve for people who already know how to solve a lot of problems a lot of problems a lot of problems >> and who know how to fix the >> and who know how to fix the >> and who know how to fix the hallucinations but for someone who hallucinations but for someone who hallucinations but for someone who doesn't know taking code from JGPT is doesn't know taking code from JGPT is doesn't know taking code from JGPT is probably a very dangerous I think um so probably a very dangerous I think um so probably a very dangerous I think um so I'm not sure where where would that lead I'm not sure where where would that lead I'm not sure where where would that lead with new generation of programmers. But with new generation of programmers. But with new generation of programmers. But I'm not too optimistic to be honest.

I'm not too optimistic to be honest. I'm not too optimistic to be honest. >> Yeah. Um Mark and I believe that if >> Yeah. Um Mark and I believe that if >> Yeah. Um Mark and I believe that if you're already senior and you know you're already senior and you know you're already senior and you know what's going on, you can be boosted. But what's going on, you can be boosted. But what's going on, you can be boosted. But if you are struggling and just learning if you are struggling and just learning if you are struggling and just learning and you're missing context, then you're and you're missing context, then you're and you're missing context, then you're going to get actually slowed down. going to get actually slowed down. going to get actually slowed down. You'll be slower and you'll be producing You'll be slower and you'll be producing You'll be slower and you'll be producing worse code. worse code. worse code. >> Yes. So, I like the idea of using it as >> Yes. So, I like the idea of using it as >> Yes. So, I like the idea of using it as a tutor and a helper, but if it's a tutor and a helper, but if it's a tutor and a helper, but if it's generating code that you don't generating code that you don't generating code that you don't understand, then you're going to get understand, then you're going to get understand, then you're going to get nailed. nailed. nailed. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> If you don't understand the code, that's >> If you don't understand the code, that's >> If you don't understand the code, that's that's a red flag. that's a red flag. that's a red flag. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I agree. So, right now, people can go >> I agree. So, right now, people can go >> I agree. So, right now, people can go and get P File Pilot. The beta is free and get P File Pilot. The beta is free and get P File Pilot. The beta is free as of the time of this recording. Um, as of the time of this recording. Um, as of the time of this recording. Um, and then you're already taking pricing and then you're already taking pricing and then you're already taking pricing though, so you can pre-order now. though, so you can pre-order now. though, so you can pre-order now. There's a 20% off early bird. Um, There's a 20% off early bird. Um, There's a 20% off early bird. Um, perpetual license is just 40 bucks for perpetual license is just 40 bucks for perpetual license is just 40 bucks for an individual, but if you want to be a an individual, but if you want to be a an individual, but if you want to be a uh a pro, you can get a, you know, all uh a pro, you can get a, you know, all uh a pro, you can get a, you know, all updates, you know, which is pretty updates, you know, which is pretty updates, you know, which is pretty pretty cool. pretty cool. pretty cool. >> And, um, I noticed also, I wanted to >> And, um, I noticed also, I wanted to >> And, um, I noticed also, I wanted to call this out. This is Windows 7 and up.

call this out. This is Windows 7 and up. call this out. This is Windows 7 and up. You could have said Windows 10, you You could have said Windows 10, you You could have said Windows 10, you could have said Windows 11. Was it hard could have said Windows 11. Was it hard could have said Windows 11. Was it hard to support Windows 7? to support Windows 7? to support Windows 7? >> No. The reason why I'm uh why I included >> No. The reason why I'm uh why I included >> No. The reason why I'm uh why I included it because I'm using very old API. So I it because I'm using very old API. So I it because I'm using very old API. So I I'm not I'm actually there are a couple I'm not I'm actually there are a couple I'm not I'm actually there are a couple of things that are specific to the of things that are specific to the of things that are specific to the Windows 7. Uh but most of the stuff is Windows 7. Uh but most of the stuff is Windows 7. Uh but most of the stuff is pretty much the same code. So I didn't pretty much the same code. So I didn't pretty much the same code. So I didn't have to include extra code to support have to include extra code to support have to include extra code to support Windows 7. Uh but when I started it, Windows 7. Uh but when I started it, Windows 7. Uh but when I started it, that was like four years ago, Windows 7 that was like four years ago, Windows 7 that was like four years ago, Windows 7 looked to me like something that someone looked to me like something that someone looked to me like something that someone could use. Four years later, like could use. Four years later, like could use. Four years later, like Windows 10 is is out of the out of the Windows 10 is is out of the out of the Windows 10 is is out of the out of the support. So, I'm not even sure if support. So, I'm not even sure if support. So, I'm not even sure if supporting Windows 7 is is important supporting Windows 7 is is important supporting Windows 7 is is important anymore, but anymore, but anymore, but >> yeah. Well, I don't think it's >> yeah. Well, I don't think it's >> yeah. Well, I don't think it's important, but I do think that it speaks important, but I do think that it speaks important, but I do think that it speaks to your craftsmanship that it's there to your craftsmanship that it's there to your craftsmanship that it's there and it works. So, if you get it for and it works. So, if you get it for and it works. So, if you get it for free, that's cool. I wonder free, that's cool. I wonder free, that's cool. I wonder >> I actually I actually like Windows 7. >> I actually I actually like Windows 7. >> I actually I actually like Windows 7. It's the most It's the most uh It's the most It's the most uh It's the most It's the most uh >> that's the one I most like.

>> that's the one I most like. >> that's the one I most like. >> So, I've been user user from Windows XP. >> So, I've been user user from Windows XP. >> So, I've been user user from Windows XP. I'm I'm a lot younger than you I'm I'm a lot younger than you I'm I'm a lot younger than you obviously, but obviously, but obviously, but >> uh but Windows X is great, but seven was >> uh but Windows X is great, but seven was >> uh but Windows X is great, but seven was was like the best one for me and yeah, was like the best one for me and yeah, was like the best one for me and yeah, 10 is I know. Yeah, it's it's a sweet 10 is I know. Yeah, it's it's a sweet 10 is I know. Yeah, it's it's a sweet spot. Yeah. Yeah. And currently I'm on spot. Yeah. Yeah. And currently I'm on spot. Yeah. Yeah. And currently I'm on Windows 10. Windows 10. Windows 10. >> Um [snorts] since I've got you here, I >> Um [snorts] since I've got you here, I >> Um [snorts] since I've got you here, I selfishly, as a File Pilot user, uh and selfishly, as a File Pilot user, uh and selfishly, as a File Pilot user, uh and someone who's going to purchase a copy, someone who's going to purchase a copy, someone who's going to purchase a copy, I will ask for a feature. What is your I will ask for a feature. What is your I will ask for a feature. What is your thinking about how File Pilot should thinking about how File Pilot should thinking about how File Pilot should integrate with WSL? I want to be able to integrate with WSL? I want to be able to integrate with WSL? I want to be able to see my Linux files from That's that's see my Linux files from That's that's see my Linux files from That's that's just uh I think if I remember correct just uh I think if I remember correct just uh I think if I remember correct correctly uh VSSL is supported via uh v correctly uh VSSL is supported via uh v correctly uh VSSL is supported via uh v virtual folders in uh in win32 API. So virtual folders in uh in win32 API. So virtual folders in uh in win32 API. So once I add support for that it will be once I add support for that it will be once I add support for that it will be visible. I don't think it's that hard. visible. I don't think it's that hard. visible. I don't think it's that hard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. So like can I can I see like I see >> Okay. So like can I can I see like I see >> Okay. So like can I can I see like I see my storage devices. I see my USB my storage devices. I see my USB my storage devices. I see my USB devices. I don't know how to get to like devices. I don't know how to get to like devices. I don't know how to get to like my server uh or like back slashbacks my server uh or like back slashbacks my server uh or like back slashbacks slash or whack-wack server.

slash or whack-wack server. slash or whack-wack server. >> You need to open go to window. It's >> You need to open go to window. It's >> You need to open go to window. It's control P. Control P. control P. Control P. control P. Control P. >> And which by the way is great. Control P >> And which by the way is great. Control P >> And which by the way is great. Control P is great because everyone's got a is great because everyone's got a is great because everyone's got a command pallet now. command pallet now. command pallet now. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's a thing. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's a thing. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's a thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. So, command P. >> Okay. So, command P. >> Okay. So, command P. I'm in the panel. This looks great. I'm in the panel. This looks great. I'm in the panel. This looks great. >> So, you just start writing UNC cadet and >> So, you just start writing UNC cadet and >> So, you just start writing UNC cadet and it should find it. Uh unless you didn't it should find it. Uh unless you didn't it should find it. Uh unless you didn't um logged in if you have credentials um logged in if you have credentials um logged in if you have credentials that you need to enter. that you need to enter. that you need to enter. >> Ah that was >> Ah that was >> Ah that was >> yeah that part that part I need to I >> yeah that part that part I need to I >> yeah that part that part I need to I need to add. need to add. need to add. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So if you if you connect if you connect >> So if you if you connect if you connect >> So if you if you connect if you connect it via file explorer um you will be able it via file explorer um you will be able it via file explorer um you will be able to see it in file pilot. to see it in file pilot. to see it in file pilot. >> Oh you mean like map a drive? >> Oh you mean like map a drive? >> Oh you mean like map a drive? >> Uh map a drive or even if you're going >> Uh map a drive or even if you're going >> Uh map a drive or even if you're going to uh with UNCC pad and it requires to uh with UNCC pad and it requires to uh with UNCC pad and it requires credentials you have to enter them from credentials you have to enter them from credentials you have to enter them from file explorer. file explorer. file explorer. >> I see. Okay, cuz right now when I my I >> I see. Okay, cuz right now when I my I >> I see. Okay, cuz right now when I my I have a server that's called server. have a server that's called server. have a server that's called server. >> So I go back slashback/server >> So I go back slashback/server >> So I go back slashback/server >> and in file pilot I go back >> and in file pilot I go back >> and in file pilot I go back slback/server and it sends me to program slback/server and it sends me to program slback/server and it sends me to program files SQL server.

files SQL server. files SQL server. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> that's problematic, right? Yeah. >> that's problematic, right? Yeah. >> that's problematic, right? Yeah. >> Yeah, that's okay. [clears throat] I >> Yeah, that's okay. [clears throat] I >> Yeah, that's okay. [clears throat] I mean again I want to make sure with that mean again I want to make sure with that mean again I want to make sure with that this is all said with love and this is all said with love and this is all said with love and appreciation. I don't want to use this appreciation. I don't want to use this appreciation. I don't want to use this podcast to give you to give you podcast to give you to give you podcast to give you to give you >> Yeah. Network shares are are things that >> Yeah. Network shares are are things that >> Yeah. Network shares are are things that I need to work more on. Yeah. I need to work more on. Yeah. I need to work more on. Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, File Pilot right now is just >> Yeah. Well, File Pilot right now is just >> Yeah. Well, File Pilot right now is just so impressive and so fun. It's so fast. so impressive and so fun. It's so fast. so impressive and so fun. It's so fast. I know that there's people who are I know that there's people who are I know that there's people who are listening who may have used tools like listening who may have used tools like listening who may have used tools like everything that they really admire. everything that they really admire. everything that they really admire. >> Um, the thing that you get with File >> Um, the thing that you get with File >> Um, the thing that you get with File Pilot that I'm so impressed about is Pilot that I'm so impressed about is Pilot that I'm so impressed about is just as fast as you can think it can just as fast as you can think it can just as fast as you can think it can move. So, for example, you just said move. So, for example, you just said move. So, for example, you just said control P. I just start typing control P. I just start typing control P. I just start typing >> and it's just it's 100 frames a second >> and it's just it's 100 frames a second >> and it's just it's 100 frames a second or you know thousand frames a second or you know thousand frames a second or you know thousand frames a second whatever my whatever my whatever my >> whatever my 5080 can uh can handle. >> whatever my 5080 can uh can handle. >> whatever my 5080 can uh can handle. What's uh what's for the what's the What's uh what's for the what's the What's uh what's for the what's the future? What's a maybe give us a uh uh a future? What's a maybe give us a uh uh a future? What's a maybe give us a uh uh a sneak peek into a feature that hasn't sneak peek into a feature that hasn't sneak peek into a feature that hasn't shipped yet that we should be excited shipped yet that we should be excited shipped yet that we should be excited about? about? about? >> So probably the biggest one uh is is >> So probably the biggest one uh is is >> So probably the biggest one uh is is support for uniode. So that so I can support for uniode. So that so I can support for uniode. So that so I can render Japanese and Korean and stuff render Japanese and Korean and stuff render Japanese and Korean and stuff like that.

like that. like that. >> Oh, cool. Um I I wasn't I wasn't >> Oh, cool. Um I I wasn't I wasn't >> Oh, cool. Um I I wasn't I wasn't expecting that ma that much exposure to expecting that ma that much exposure to expecting that ma that much exposure to be honest like I didn't I didn't expect be honest like I didn't I didn't expect be honest like I didn't I didn't expect so many so many people to be to be so many so many people to be to be so many so many people to be to be trying file pilot and a lot of people trying file pilot and a lot of people trying file pilot and a lot of people are are from from that part of the world are are from from that part of the world are are from from that part of the world and so yeah I didn't integrate it. Um so and so yeah I didn't integrate it. Um so and so yeah I didn't integrate it. Um so that's probably the number one. The that's probably the number one. The that's probably the number one. The number two is um drag and drop from zip number two is um drag and drop from zip number two is um drag and drop from zip archives. Uh a lot of people use that. archives. Uh a lot of people use that. archives. Uh a lot of people use that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And I wanted to include that into >> Yeah. And I wanted to include that into >> Yeah. And I wanted to include that into original beta release, but it's it's one original beta release, but it's it's one original beta release, but it's it's one of those um com uh stuff that is not so of those um com uh stuff that is not so of those um com uh stuff that is not so simple. It come as in uh co simple. It come as in uh co simple. It come as in uh co >> Yeah. com component object model. >> Yeah. com component object model. >> Yeah. com component object model. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um it's a bit complicated >> Yeah. Yeah. Um it's a bit complicated >> Yeah. Yeah. Um it's a bit complicated >> and there's and there's licensing that's >> and there's and there's licensing that's >> and there's and there's licensing that's implied because you've got and there's implied because you've got and there's implied because you've got and there's different versions of zip and there's different versions of zip and there's different versions of zip and there's AES encryption and 256 bit and like AES encryption and 256 bit and like AES encryption and 256 bit and like there it's a lot. there it's a lot. there it's a lot. >> Yeah, it's a lot. Yeah. >> Yeah, it's a lot. Yeah. >> Yeah, it's a lot. Yeah. But it's coming. Um But it's coming. Um But it's coming. Um other than that um it's mostly smaller other than that um it's mostly smaller other than that um it's mostly smaller features uh quality of life improvements features uh quality of life improvements features uh quality of life improvements uh and in general like bug fixing and uh and in general like bug fixing and uh and in general like bug fixing and crashing crash fixing. Um but file crashing crash fixing. Um but file crashing crash fixing. Um but file pallet is is in pretty I would say in pallet is is in pretty I would say in pallet is is in pretty I would say in reasonably stable state at the moment.

reasonably stable state at the moment. reasonably stable state at the moment. Um, it doesn't it it will occasionally Um, it doesn't it it will occasionally Um, it doesn't it it will occasionally crash for someone, but not that often. crash for someone, but not that often. crash for someone, but not that often. So, I'm pretty happy with it. So, I'm pretty happy with it. So, I'm pretty happy with it. >> Oh, I've never Yeah, I've never seen it >> Oh, I've never Yeah, I've never seen it >> Oh, I've never Yeah, I've never seen it crash at all. crash at all. crash at all. >> And I love I love that you I I just put >> And I love I love that you I I just put >> And I love I love that you I I just put it in my utilities folder and it's it in my utilities folder and it's it in my utilities folder and it's actually I have it in my one drive and actually I have it in my one drive and actually I have it in my one drive and it syncs to all of my other machines. it syncs to all of my other machines. it syncs to all of my other machines. So, it's available everywhere because So, it's available everywhere because So, it's available everywhere because it's a loose executable. it's a loose executable. it's a loose executable. >> I mean, yeah, that that was the one of >> I mean, yeah, that that was the one of >> I mean, yeah, that that was the one of the design goals to be small and the design goals to be small and the design goals to be small and portable app. portable app. portable app. >> I really like that. Yeah. Um, and you >> I really like that. Yeah. Um, and you >> I really like that. Yeah. Um, and you can't do that if if your executable is 1 can't do that if if your executable is 1 can't do that if if your executable is 1 GBTE. I mean, you can, but it's it's GBTE. I mean, you can, but it's it's GBTE. I mean, you can, but it's it's it's it's not the same. Yeah. it's it's not the same. Yeah. it's it's not the same. Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, I really appreciate your >> Yeah. Well, I really appreciate your >> Yeah. Well, I really appreciate your work that we are all watching with work that we are all watching with work that we are all watching with enthusiasm. I just while we were talking enthusiasm. I just while we were talking enthusiasm. I just while we were talking purchased my license to file pilot. Uh purchased my license to file pilot. Uh purchased my license to file pilot. Uh and I would of course and I I just feel and I would of course and I I just feel and I would of course and I I just feel like we need to appreciate and celebrate like we need to appreciate and celebrate like we need to appreciate and celebrate uh small and medium businesses that are uh small and medium businesses that are uh small and medium businesses that are doing interesting work and uh yourself doing interesting work and uh yourself doing interesting work and uh yourself and and the other folks in the in the and and the other folks in the in the and and the other folks in the in the file explorer replacement community like file explorer replacement community like file explorer replacement community like files and others should be celebrated files and others should be celebrated files and others should be celebrated because you're trying new things and because you're trying new things and because you're trying new things and you're doing it in a really innovative you're doing it in a really innovative you're doing it in a really innovative way and I wish you all the success.

way and I wish you all the success. way and I wish you all the success. >> I appreciate it. Thanks. Thanks. >> I appreciate it. Thanks. Thanks. >> I appreciate it. Thanks. Thanks. >> Folks can check out FilePilot at >> Folks can check out FilePilot at >> Folks can check out FilePilot at filepilot.te filepilot.te filepilot.te teec teec teec and we have been chatting with Vekuslav and we have been chatting with Vekuslav and we have been chatting with Vekuslav Crayic today on another episode of Crayic today on another episode of Crayic today on another episode of Hansel Minutes. We'll see you again next Hansel Minutes. We'll see you again next Hansel Minutes. We'll see you again next week. [music]