Scott on DotNetRocks episode 1900 with Carl Franklin and Richard Campbell

hey guess what it's net rocks and a very hey guess what it's net rocks and a very special episode 1900 Scott hansman is special episode 1900 Scott hansman is special episode 1900 Scott hansman is here I'm Carl Franklin and I'm Richard here I'm Carl Franklin and I'm Richard here I'm Carl Franklin and I'm Richard Campbell and we're at build yeah and Campbell and we're at build yeah and Campbell and we're at build yeah and happen to have just made our we're in a happen to have just made our we're in a happen to have just made our we're in a process of making our 1900th episode how process of making our 1900th episode how process of making our 1900th episode how did that happen how did that happen well did that happen how did that happen well did that happen how did that happen well we got a really great guest who's been we got a really great guest who's been we got a really great guest who's been part of the net rocks uh environment if part of the net rocks uh environment if part of the net rocks uh environment if you will for ever since we can remember you will for ever since we can remember you will for ever since we can remember show 17 you I tell people how did how show 17 you I tell people how did how show 17 you I tell people how did how did Hansel minutes start right it's did Hansel minutes start right it's did Hansel minutes start right it's because Carl Franklin called me 18 years because Carl Franklin called me 18 years because Carl Franklin called me 18 years ago and he said why don't you have a ago and he said why don't you have a ago and he said why don't you have a podcast and your answer was I said podcast and your answer was I said podcast and your answer was I said podcast podcast podcast sucks and then he said well I dare you sucks and then he said well I dare you sucks and then he said well I dare you to make one better to make one better to make one better yeah and I said well fine I will all yeah and I said well fine I will all yeah and I said well fine I will all right but you know to right but you know to right but you know to to your credit though what you really to your credit though what you really to your credit though what you really meant to say was the podcasts that I've meant to say was the podcasts that I've meant to say was the podcasts that I've heard suck so when I said podcasting heard suck so when I said podcasting heard suck so when I said podcasting sucks I want to point out that there sucks I want to point out that there sucks I want to point out that there were only like five podcasts because it were only like five podcasts because it were only like five podcasts because it was 20 years ago right but it was was 20 years ago right but it was was 20 years ago right but it was because so many podcasts were just a because so many podcasts were just a because so many podcasts were just a bunch of idiots sitting around jabbering bunch of idiots sitting around jabbering bunch of idiots sitting around jabbering and now uh podcasts are just Instagram and now uh podcasts are just Instagram and now uh podcasts are just Instagram reals with a bunch of ID case it's a reals with a bunch of ID case it's a reals with a bunch of ID case it's a bunch of idiots sitting around with bunch of idiots sitting around with bunch of idiots sitting around with their headphones on chatting so yeah their headphones on chatting so yeah their headphones on chatting so yeah Welcome to our podcast and and then they Welcome to our podcast and and then they Welcome to our podcast and and then they say the weirdest you know it's like did say the weirdest you know it's like did say the weirdest you know it's like did you read that article in the New Yorker you read that article in the New Yorker you read that article in the New Yorker about how cinnamon cures diabetes and about how cinnamon cures diabetes and about how cinnamon cures diabetes and then they then that goes viral and then then they then that goes viral and then then they then that goes viral and then we have to talk about how that's not we have to talk about how that's not we have to talk about how that's not true right yeah over and over again but true right yeah over and over again but true right yeah over and over again but yeah I appreciate it very much Carl you yeah I appreciate it very much Carl you yeah I appreciate it very much Carl you supported me for gosh 500 episodes you

supported me for gosh 500 episodes you supported me for gosh 500 episodes you know edited produced Hanselman it's know edited produced Hanselman it's know edited produced Hanselman it's would not exist without well thanks the would not exist without well thanks the would not exist without well thanks the Carl Franklin Family podcast I remember Carl Franklin Family podcast I remember Carl Franklin Family podcast I remember be at the first time I met you was at an be at the first time I met you was at an be at the first time I met you was at an RD meeting and uh we were talking about RD meeting and uh we were talking about RD meeting and uh we were talking about I think we were talking about Joseph I think we were talking about Joseph I think we were talking about Joseph Campbell of all people and maybe the Campbell of all people and maybe the Campbell of all people and maybe the hero's journey the hero's journey and hero's journey the hero's journey and hero's journey the hero's journey and how you know the similarities between uh how you know the similarities between uh how you know the similarities between uh cultures of the religions and the things cultures of the religions and the things cultures of the religions and the things that manifest that manifest that manifest themselves you related it is he sharp themselves you related it is he sharp themselves you related it is he sharp that's awesome you're like yeah do net that's awesome you're like yeah do net that's awesome you're like yeah do net is kind of like that we you I love my is kind of like that we you I love my is kind of like that we you I love my analogies oh it was great and I was like analogies oh it was great and I was like analogies oh it was great and I was like all right this is a smart guy I want to all right this is a smart guy I want to all right this is a smart guy I want to get to know anybody did you want to do get to know anybody did you want to do get to know anybody did you want to do the open yeah let's do the open better the open yeah let's do the open better the open yeah let's do the open better no framework music [Music] [Music] all right dude what do you got I came all right dude what do you got I came all right dude what do you got I came across this and I said this has got to across this and I said this has got to across this and I said this has got to be the better know framework for Scott be the better know framework for Scott be the better know framework for Scott Hanselman because he's such a commodor Hanselman because he's such a commodor Hanselman because he's such a commodor nerd yeah he is such a codor nerd this nerd yeah he is such a codor nerd this nerd yeah he is such a codor nerd this is 8bit do retro mechanical keyboard c64 is 8bit do retro mechanical keyboard c64 is 8bit do retro mechanical keyboard c64 Edition programmable Keys intuitive Edition programmable Keys intuitive Edition programmable Keys intuitive controls it's a keyboard for your PC controls it's a keyboard for your PC controls it's a keyboard for your PC that looks like the Commodore 64 that looks like the Commodore 64 that looks like the Commodore 64 with the rainbow logo and all of that oh with the rainbow logo and all of that oh with the rainbow logo and all of that oh my God I purchased that on March my God I purchased that on March my God I purchased that on March 29th of course you did it has been on 29th of course you did it has been on 29th of course you did it has been on pre-order with a July uh shipping date pre-order with a July uh shipping date pre-order with a July uh shipping date and it turns out that it is going to be and it turns out that it is going to be and it turns out that it is going to be arriving Wednesday oh that's awesome Co arriving Wednesday oh that's awesome Co arriving Wednesday oh that's awesome Co now this was just convergent thinking

now this was just convergent thinking now this was just convergent thinking right I mean you found it just probably right I mean you found it just probably right I mean you found it just probably the same time and I wore a commoner 64 the same time and I wore a commoner 64 the same time and I wore a commoner 64 t-shirt yesterday nice and uh at Dev t-shirt yesterday nice and uh at Dev t-shirt yesterday nice and uh at Dev intersections on stage with you we asked intersections on stage with you we asked intersections on stage with you we asked chat GP T through a commodor 64 we had chat GP T through a commodor 64 we had chat GP T through a commodor 64 we had AER 64 live on stage we uh used a BBS AER 64 live on stage we uh used a BBS AER 64 live on stage we uh used a BBS software great to simulate talking to a software great to simulate talking to a software great to simulate talking to a bulletin board you can go and the young bulletin board you can go and the young bulletin board you can go and the young people can Google for that with Bing and people can Google for that with Bing and people can Google for that with Bing and we got we we we BBs into an Ubuntu VM we got we we we BBs into an Ubuntu VM we got we we we BBs into an Ubuntu VM ran a python script called chbt and ran a python script called chbt and ran a python script called chbt and asked it to run and write a 6502 asked it to run and write a 6502 asked it to run and write a 6502 assembler and then say hello world and assembler and then say hello world and assembler and then say hello world and then run it on the Commodore 64 this is then run it on the Commodore 64 this is then run it on the Commodore 64 this is so why because it's so why because it's so why because it's it's it's it's awesome a lot of Hoops it's retro too awesome a lot of Hoops it's retro too awesome a lot of Hoops it's retro too there's a lovely commer 64 User Group there's a lovely commer 64 User Group there's a lovely commer 64 User Group active yeah yeah in the Portland area we active yeah yeah in the Portland area we active yeah yeah in the Portland area we meet at we meet at Kingpin in Beaverton meet at we meet at Kingpin in Beaverton meet at we meet at Kingpin in Beaverton you're more than welcome to join us you're more than welcome to join us you're more than welcome to join us that's phenomenal how do I mean the that's phenomenal how do I mean the that's phenomenal how do I mean the traces have got to be falling off those traces have got to be falling off those traces have got to be falling off those boards man like no man so we do you can boards man like no man so we do you can boards man like no man so we do you can actually go and and search for a c64 cap actually go and and search for a c64 cap actually go and and search for a c64 cap kit yeah and get and recap so like if kit yeah and get and recap so like if kit yeah and get and recap so like if you talk to a Commodore or a ZX Spectrum you talk to a Commodore or a ZX Spectrum you talk to a Commodore or a ZX Spectrum or an amga person you say oh yeah when or an amga person you say oh yeah when or an amga person you say oh yeah when was the last time you recapped board was the last time you recapped board was the last time you recapped board your board I had a 1571 Commodore disc your board I had a 1571 Commodore disc your board I had a 1571 Commodore disc drive and it had magic smoke Y come out drive and it had magic smoke Y come out drive and it had magic smoke Y come out of it right as they do and like oh I got of it right as they do and like oh I got of it right as they do and like oh I got to recap it and you go and you buy all to recap it and you go and you buy all to recap it and you go and you buy all new capacitors you desolder the boards new capacitors you desolder the boards new capacitors you desolder the boards and you redo them and they'll live and you redo them and they'll live and you redo them and they'll live forever yeah that's hilarious moving forever yeah that's hilarious moving forever yeah that's hilarious moving Parts I just have one question before we Parts I just have one question before we Parts I just have one question before we get started can I buy a pair of Crocs I

get started can I buy a pair of Crocs I get started can I buy a pair of Crocs I I I I I've been I have move I have so I I I I I've been I have move I have so I I I I I've been I have move I have so I made a video where I 3D printed a pair made a video where I 3D printed a pair made a video where I 3D printed a pair of Croc like yeah not Crocs yeah and uh of Croc like yeah not Crocs yeah and uh of Croc like yeah not Crocs yeah and uh people have telling me in the comments people have telling me in the comments people have telling me in the comments that they are very litigious they are that they are very litigious they are that they are very litigious they are simply plastic shoes yes with no with a simply plastic shoes yes with no with a simply plastic shoes yes with no with a with a passing resemblance yeah to Crocs with a passing resemblance yeah to Crocs with a passing resemblance yeah to Crocs there you go I was worried that you had there you go I was worried that you had there you go I was worried that you had said the word Crocs in that video said the word Crocs in that video said the word Crocs in that video they're not Yeezys they are not Yeezy they're not Yeezys they are not Yeezy they're not Yeezys they are not Yeezy slides they are not Crocs okay that's slides they are not Crocs okay that's slides they are not Crocs okay that's but you made them for your son I made but you made them for your son I made but you made them for your son I made for does he wear them he does not for does he wear them he does not for does he wear them he does not they're too slippery too slippery wrong they're too slippery too slippery wrong they're too slippery too slippery wrong material material I got put like they material material I got put like they material material I got put like they they're missing that Crocs magic this they're missing that Crocs magic this they're missing that Crocs magic this episode is You by episode is You by episode is You by Crocs all right well Richard who's Crocs all right well Richard who's Crocs all right well Richard who's talking to us grabbed a comment off a talking to us grabbed a comment off a talking to us grabbed a comment off a show 800 cuz why wouldn't I go 1100 show 800 cuz why wouldn't I go 1100 show 800 cuz why wouldn't I go 1100 shows back right but you know we always shows back right but you know we always shows back right but you know we always have fun with our ODOT shows and when we have fun with our ODOT shows and when we have fun with our ODOT shows and when we made show 800 in 2012 our guests were made show 800 in 2012 our guests were made show 800 in 2012 our guests were Scott Hanselman and Rob connory yeah so Scott Hanselman and Rob connory yeah so Scott Hanselman and Rob connory yeah so it was like the podcaster gang and it was like the podcaster gang and it was like the podcaster gang and there's like 30 something comments on there's like 30 something comments on there's like 30 something comments on this show like it's huge uh lots of this show like it's huge uh lots of this show like it's huge uh lots of chatter just you know it was it was fun chatter just you know it was it was fun chatter just you know it was it was fun but I I'll read James M blin's comment but I I'll read James M blin's comment but I I'll read James M blin's comment from 11 years ago uh he started with from 11 years ago uh he started with from 11 years ago uh he started with Avengers Assemble Avengers Assemble Avengers Assemble okay wow yeah this Marvel Universe has okay wow yeah this Marvel Universe has okay wow yeah this Marvel Universe has been going on that long yeah this been going on that long yeah this been going on that long yeah this episode is like all my favorite podcast episode is like all my favorite podcast episode is like all my favorite podcast put together very interesting behind the put together very interesting behind the put together very interesting behind the scenes glimpse of how you guys all do it scenes glimpse of how you guys all do it scenes glimpse of how you guys all do it Scott's comment about asking potentially Scott's comment about asking potentially Scott's comment about asking potentially stupid sounding questions really stupid sounding questions really stupid sounding questions really resonated with me if I'm to build resonated with me if I'm to build resonated with me if I'm to build something for someone I'd rather keep

something for someone I'd rather keep something for someone I'd rather keep going over it until we're both convinced going over it until we're both convinced going over it until we're both convinced that I've got it I don't want to go away that I've got it I don't want to go away that I've got it I don't want to go away giving the other person the impression giving the other person the impression giving the other person the impression that understand and then build something that understand and then build something that understand and then build something incorrect I also don't want to keep incorrect I also don't want to keep incorrect I also don't want to keep going back with questions about things going back with questions about things going back with questions about things that the other person thought were that the other person thought were that the other person thought were settled it serves everyone better when settled it serves everyone better when settled it serves everyone better when you spend all the time up front to come you spend all the time up front to come you spend all the time up front to come with a common understanding even if it with a common understanding even if it with a common understanding even if it means you have to take a credibility hit means you have to take a credibility hit means you have to take a credibility hit up front right I remember James mcin up front right I remember James mcin up front right I remember James mcin he's from the UK yeah and when you come he's from the UK yeah and when you come he's from the UK yeah and when you come back and the exact thing is built you back and the exact thing is built you back and the exact thing is built you look like a pro very nice yeah no and look like a pro very nice yeah no and look like a pro very nice yeah no and and the comment about uh about asking and the comment about uh about asking and the comment about uh about asking potentially dumb questions that that the potentially dumb questions that that the potentially dumb questions that that the whole my whole podcast is dedicated to whole my whole podcast is dedicated to whole my whole podcast is dedicated to me asking dumb question me asking dumb question me asking dumb question someone asked me how I did so many someone asked me how I did so many someone asked me how I did so many episodes I know that I'm not at 1900 I'm episodes I know that I'm not at 1900 I'm episodes I know that I'm not at 1900 I'm only at 950 air but the trick is um if only at 950 air but the trick is um if only at 950 air but the trick is um if people email you and say hey can I pick people email you and say hey can I pick people email you and say hey can I pick your brain and buy you coffee right your brain and buy you coffee right your brain and buy you coffee right that's annoying yeah but if they say hey that's annoying yeah but if they say hey that's annoying yeah but if they say hey would you come on my podcast that's not would you come on my podcast that's not would you come on my podcast that's not annoying yeah but it's the same exact annoying yeah but it's the same exact annoying yeah but it's the same exact thing it is pretty much the same yeah it thing it is pretty much the same yeah it thing it is pretty much the same yeah it is I have no business talking to these is I have no business talking to these is I have no business talking to these that is one of the secrets isn't it uh that is one of the secrets isn't it uh that is one of the secrets isn't it uh James thanks so much for your comment James thanks so much for your comment James thanks so much for your comment and a coffee of Music Co by it's on its and a coffee of Music Co by it's on its and a coffee of Music Co by it's on its way to you and if you like a copy of way to you and if you like a copy of way to you and if you like a copy of Music C by write a comment on the Music C by write a comment on the Music C by write a comment on the website at Don rocks.com or on the website at Don rocks.com or on the website at Don rocks.com or on the Facebooks we publish every show there Facebooks we publish every show there Facebooks we publish every show there and if you comment there and I read it and if you comment there and I read it and if you comment there and I read it on the show we'll send you a copy of mus on the show we'll send you a copy of mus on the show we'll send you a copy of mus to go by and you can follow us that was to go by and you can follow us that was to go by and you can follow us that was very smooth I'm sorry can we true he very smooth I'm sorry can we true he very smooth I'm sorry can we true he does that live every time and people does that live every time and people does that live every time and people when we do live shows they they're like when we do live shows they they're like when we do live shows they they're like what yeah the look on their faces when what yeah the look on their faces when what yeah the look on their faces when we do a live show and I rip that out and we do a live show and I rip that out and we do a live show and I rip that out and they like the part that I was missing they like the part that I was missing they like the part that I was missing though was the part like the the the though was the part like the the the though was the part like the the the prescription drug part where you go

prescription drug part where you go prescription drug part where you go music to code may cause abdominal music to code may cause abdominal music to code may cause abdominal distension do not taunt music to code none of these statements have been none of these statements have been validated by the FDA very nice talk to validated by the FDA very nice talk to validated by the FDA very nice talk to your doctor before anying with that your doctor before anying with that your doctor before anying with that rocks anyway you can follow us on X rocks anyway you can follow us on X rocks anyway you can follow us on X Twitter which is what I'm calling it now Twitter which is what I'm calling it now Twitter which is what I'm calling it now get it X Twitter I I refuse to call it X get it X Twitter I I refuse to call it X get it X Twitter I I refuse to call it X yeah yeah we're in the same boat uh yeah yeah we're in the same boat uh yeah yeah we're in the same boat uh we've been on there for a long long time we've been on there for a long long time we've been on there for a long long time but all the cool kids are hanging out on but all the cool kids are hanging out on but all the cool kids are hanging out on mdon I'm at Carl Franklin Tech hub. and mdon I'm at Carl Franklin Tech hub. and mdon I'm at Carl Franklin Tech hub. and I'm rich Campbell atmad on.so do you I'm rich Campbell atmad on.so do you I'm rich Campbell atmad on.so do you have a Mastadon account so I do and I have a Mastadon account so I do and I have a Mastadon account so I do and I can give you a cool tip if you just can give you a cool tip if you just can give you a cool tip if you just search for scott.and one.com you'll find search for scott.and one.com you'll find search for scott.and one.com you'll find me I'm actually on hacky Derm right but me I'm actually on hacky Derm right but me I'm actually on hacky Derm right but you can use a thing called Web finger you can use a thing called Web finger you can use a thing called Web finger you put a single file on you know you put a single file on you know you put a single file on you know franklin.nc Associates and then it will franklin.nc Associates and then it will franklin.nc Associates and then it will be a pointer yeah to where you are so be a pointer yeah to where you are so be a pointer yeah to where you are so you can just look for my first name and you can just look for my first name and you can just look for my first name and at at my last name and you'll find me at at my last name and you'll find me at at my last name and you'll find me it's very good that's awesome yeah yeah it's very good that's awesome yeah yeah it's very good that's awesome yeah yeah you should do that I'm also on threads you should do that I'm also on threads you should do that I'm also on threads air chat Instagram Blue Sky I have a air chat Instagram Blue Sky I have a air chat Instagram Blue Sky I have a list those at Carl franklin.com so list those at Carl franklin.com so list those at Carl franklin.com so that's where I tell people to go I'm on that's where I tell people to go I'm on that's where I tell people to go I'm on all them I'm going to set up the finger all them I'm going to set up the finger all them I'm going to set up the finger I think that's a good idea yeah okay so I think that's a good idea yeah okay so I think that's a good idea yeah okay so we haven't a formally introduce Scott we haven't a formally introduce Scott we haven't a formally introduce Scott but if if you haven't listened to him but if if you haven't listened to him but if if you haven't listened to him lately he is now Vice President of lately he is now Vice President of lately he is now Vice President of developer Community congratulations what developer Community congratulations what developer Community congratulations what is that it what is that about crazy what is that it what is that about crazy what is that it what is that about crazy what a weird compliment capitalism pays you so uh it's but you know I didn't you so uh it's but you know I didn't want this show and neither did Richard

want this show and neither did Richard want this show and neither did Richard to be you know three old guys talk about to be you know three old guys talk about to be you know three old guys talk about the old days get off my lawn but late the old days get off my lawn but late the old days get off my lawn but late what else can we do it turns out that what else can we do it turns out that what else can we do it turns out that you know that's a really valid point of you know that's a really valid point of you know that's a really valid point of view that uh may be missing in some view that uh may be missing in some view that uh may be missing in some conversations maybe not to get off my conversations maybe not to get off my conversations maybe not to get off my lawn part but we did the show with Sean lawn part but we did the show with Sean lawn part but we did the show with Sean wildermuth about you know the Aging wildermuth about you know the Aging wildermuth about you know the Aging senior developer and you know the senior developer and you know the senior developer and you know the decisions that we make in our older decisions that we make in our older decisions that we make in our older years about what do we want to do next years about what do we want to do next years about what do we want to do next yeah and it resonated with the listeners yeah and it resonated with the listeners yeah and it resonated with the listeners we weren't sure if it was going to but we weren't sure if it was going to but we weren't sure if it was going to but it really did and then followed that up it really did and then followed that up it really did and then followed that up with uh Aaron Eric show yeah uh who is with uh Aaron Eric show yeah uh who is with uh Aaron Eric show yeah uh who is also a 50-some developer but he was the also a 50-some developer but he was the also a 50-some developer but he was the nomadic developer when we interviewed nomadic developer when we interviewed nomadic developer when we interviewed him ages ago and now he's he's working him ages ago and now he's he's working him ages ago and now he's he's working in he he he did all the jobs he was a in he he he did all the jobs he was a in he he he did all the jobs he was a consultant and then he went into he consultant and then he went into he consultant and then he went into he dabbled with some other companies then dabbled with some other companies then dabbled with some other companies then he did a startup he moved to San he did a startup he moved to San he did a startup he moved to San Francisco did the startup failed Francisco did the startup failed Francisco did the startup failed horribly but got it was an AI startup horribly but got it was an AI startup horribly but got it was an AI startup and he got hired by Nvidia now he's and he got hired by Nvidia now he's and he got hired by Nvidia now he's working at Nvidia on on large language working at Nvidia on on large language working at Nvidia on on large language models stuff but the Energizer Bunny models stuff but the Energizer Bunny models stuff but the Energizer Bunny still just going and learning new things still just going and learning new things still just going and learning new things slowing down I just thought it was a slowing down I just thought it was a slowing down I just thought it was a really interesting set of shows to think really interesting set of shows to think really interesting set of shows to think in terms of you know what what did you in terms of you know what what did you in terms of you know what what did you want from your career like you've got want from your career like you've got want from your career like you've got your VP I don't know if that was a goal your VP I don't know if that was a goal your VP I don't know if that was a goal for you well for you well for you well so um now that I'm on the Downs slope on so um now that I'm on the Downs slope on so um now that I'm on the Downs slope on on the on the way out augering in yeah I on the on the way out augering in yeah I on the on the way out augering in yeah I have thought about what my identity is have thought about what my identity is have thought about what my identity is it's not my company yeah um never was it's not my company yeah um never was it's not my company yeah um never was never has been I feel like I'm a teacher never has been I feel like I'm a teacher never has been I feel like I'm a teacher I was a teacher before I'll be a teacher

I was a teacher before I'll be a teacher I was a teacher before I'll be a teacher after all of my vibes are teachery yeah after all of my vibes are teachery yeah after all of my vibes are teachery yeah now that I'm older uh I I've been told now that I'm older uh I I've been told now that I'm older uh I I've been told that I give off big dad energy yeah so that I give off big dad energy yeah so that I give off big dad energy yeah so that I think is a position that I will that I think is a position that I will that I think is a position that I will happily take yeah and my job is to make happily take yeah and my job is to make happily take yeah and my job is to make the kids successful whether it be my own the kids successful whether it be my own the kids successful whether it be my own kids or whether it be early in career kids or whether it be early in career kids or whether it be early in career people uh regardless of their age people uh regardless of their age people uh regardless of their age because there's a lot of great 40-some because there's a lot of great 40-some because there's a lot of great 40-some career switchers that are early in career switchers that are early in career switchers that are early in career so on my way out the question is career so on my way out the question is career so on my way out the question is who is the next Richard Campbell who's who is the next Richard Campbell who's who is the next Richard Campbell who's the next Carl Franklin who's the next the next Carl Franklin who's the next the next Carl Franklin who's the next you know Angie Jones how do we make you know Angie Jones how do we make you know Angie Jones how do we make these great new developers that are these great new developers that are these great new developers that are maybe in their 20s yeah uh or are in maybe in their 20s yeah uh or are in maybe in their 20s yeah uh or are in their 40s and their career s so that's their 40s and their career s so that's their 40s and their career s so that's my that's my goal I want P you a my that's my goal I want P you a my that's my goal I want P you a compliment you paid me one earlier um compliment you paid me one earlier um compliment you paid me one earlier um when I think of you one word comes to when I think of you one word comes to when I think of you one word comes to mind and that's Integrity a absolutely mind and that's Integrity a absolutely mind and that's Integrity a absolutely you um you spoke truth when truth needed you um you spoke truth when truth needed you um you spoke truth when truth needed to be heard and wasn't very popular and to be heard and wasn't very popular and to be heard and wasn't very popular and uh you still do that to this day that's uh you still do that to this day that's uh you still do that to this day that's very kind thank you for that well it's very kind thank you for that well it's very kind thank you for that well it's very true and I think a lot of people very true and I think a lot of people very true and I think a lot of people will agree with me sure no when I F FKS will agree with me sure no when I F FKS will agree with me sure no when I F FKS asked me about you one of I talk about asked me about you one of I talk about asked me about you one of I talk about your diabetes video watching you do your your diabetes video watching you do your your diabetes video watching you do your routine oh yeah and to me it's always routine oh yeah and to me it's always routine oh yeah and to me it's always the thing of doesn't matter that you I the thing of doesn't matter that you I the thing of doesn't matter that you I think you were 30-some when you did that think you were 30-some when you did that think you were 30-some when you did that video good Lord and uh but you still video good Lord and uh but you still video good Lord and uh but you still Flinch oh it hurt yeah everyone's like Flinch oh it hurt yeah everyone's like Flinch oh it hurt yeah everyone's like does it hurt do the needle hurt no they does it hurt do the needle hurt no they does it hurt do the needle hurt no they yes they hurt it's a needle look at it I yes they hurt it's a needle look at it I yes they hurt it's a needle look at it I remember being on the phone with you remember being on the phone with you remember being on the phone with you before we did a handome minut it's one before we did a handome minut it's one before we did a handome minut it's one day and you were like hang on one second day and you were like hang on one second day and you were like hang on one second I got to jab I got to jab I got to jab myself sounded like a horror movie you myself sounded like a horror movie you myself sounded like a horror movie you know I'm like oh I'm so sorry you know

know I'm like oh I'm so sorry you know know I'm like oh I'm so sorry you know yep no it's your life the gluc pilot yep no it's your life the gluc pilot yep no it's your life the gluc pilot none of us are getting out of this alive none of us are getting out of this alive none of us are getting out of this alive no none of us are at all but uh back to no none of us are at all but uh back to no none of us are at all but uh back to the uh the the old programmer thing the the uh the the old programmer thing the the uh the the old programmer thing the thing that we can offer is kind and thing that we can offer is kind and thing that we can offer is kind and patient mentorship and historical patient mentorship and historical patient mentorship and historical context exactly goodness knows I love context exactly goodness knows I love context exactly goodness knows I love historical context and I I I love the historical context and I I I love the historical context and I I I love the enthusiasm of the early and career enthusiasm of the early and career enthusiasm of the early and career developer of the young person I love how developer of the young person I love how developer of the young person I love how excited they about stuff and I don't excited they about stuff and I don't excited they about stuff and I don't want to bring stop energy and one of the want to bring stop energy and one of the want to bring stop energy and one of the things that we as as older as Elders things that we as as older as Elders things that we as as older as Elders we'll say yeah uh have a tendency to do we'll say yeah uh have a tendency to do we'll say yeah uh have a tendency to do is bring stop energy yeah it's to get is bring stop energy yeah it's to get is bring stop energy yeah it's to get off my lawn mentality oh we did that oh off my lawn mentality oh we did that oh off my lawn mentality oh we did that oh we did that before why would you do that we did that before why would you do that we did that before why would you do that that's a lot of work you just instead of that's a lot of work you just instead of that's a lot of work you just instead of no we did that before and you shouldn't no we did that before and you shouldn't no we did that before and you shouldn't do it now we go yeah okay I can see why do it now we go yeah okay I can see why do it now we go yeah okay I can see why you'd want to do that here's what we you'd want to do that here's what we you'd want to do that here's what we learned when we tried yeah exactly yes learned when we tried yeah exactly yes learned when we tried yeah exactly yes and yes and yeah take and take him and yes and yeah take and take him and yes and yeah take and take him forward on that certainly be forward on that certainly be forward on that certainly be enthusiastic with all the possibilities enthusiastic with all the possibilities enthusiastic with all the possibilities that are out there oh yeah I mean that are out there oh yeah I mean that are out there oh yeah I mean I'm the 50-some still in the speaking I'm the 50-some still in the speaking I'm the 50-some still in the speaking circuit and uh most of the speakers are circuit and uh most of the speakers are circuit and uh most of the speakers are in the 30s now and you know what they're in the 30s now and you know what they're in the 30s now and you know what they're a great crop of speakers there's a bunch a great crop of speakers there's a bunch a great crop of speakers there's a bunch of very very exciting speakers out there of very very exciting speakers out there of very very exciting speakers out there right now and they're doing a lot of right now and they're doing a lot of right now and they're doing a lot of really cool stuff and I think we're also really cool stuff and I think we're also really cool stuff and I think we're also starting to see uh and I always like to starting to see uh and I always like to starting to see uh and I always like to see speakers that build first and then see speakers that build first and then see speakers that build first and then talk yeah uh you can really really talk yeah uh you can really really talk yeah uh you can really really easily get pulled into the quote unquote easily get pulled into the quote unquote easily get pulled into the quote unquote International technical speaking circuit International technical speaking circuit International technical speaking circuit and all you do is talk about stuff and and all you do is talk about stuff and and all you do is talk about stuff and you know go make things go make things you know go make things go make things you know go make things go make things disappear and then talk about what you disappear and then talk about what you disappear and then talk about what you made cuz I want to know what you made

made cuz I want to know what you made made cuz I want to know what you made when I was wondering where you were yeah when I was wondering where you were yeah when I was wondering where you were yeah where are they where oh they're making where are they where oh they're making where are they where oh they're making stuff they were making stuff so our stuff they were making stuff so our stuff they were making stuff so our generation and I don't want to be the in generation and I don't want to be the in generation and I don't want to be the in my day we use Punch Cards and we liked my day we use Punch Cards and we liked my day we use Punch Cards and we liked it guy but our generation saw the it guy but our generation saw the it guy but our generation saw the evolution of computing from you know evolution of computing from you know evolution of computing from you know maybe just after Punch Cards you know to maybe just after Punch Cards you know to maybe just after Punch Cards you know to the PC certain from the PC certainly all the PC certain from the PC certainly all the PC certain from the PC certainly all the way up to now and there is some I the way up to now and there is some I the way up to now and there is some I don't know would you say don't know would you say don't know would you say that we came of age there um and and that we came of age there um and and that we came of age there um and and there were fewer people people maybe there were fewer people people maybe there were fewer people people maybe following that curve as there are now following that curve as there are now following that curve as there are now and you know so it was easy to because and you know so it was easy to because and you know so it was easy to because there were less of us to easier to fall there were less of us to easier to fall there were less of us to easier to fall into the pit of success or do you think into the pit of success or do you think into the pit of success or do you think that now with so many things being so that now with so many things being so that now with so many things being so easy all right let me give you an easy all right let me give you an easy all right let me give you an example what you just talked about with example what you just talked about with example what you just talked about with hacking this Commodore 64 and bbs's and hacking this Commodore 64 and bbs's and hacking this Commodore 64 and bbs's and stuff you know we've been doing stuff stuff you know we've been doing stuff stuff you know we've been doing stuff like that the whole time on the bleeding like that the whole time on the bleeding like that the whole time on the bleeding edge where things were people didn't edge where things were people didn't edge where things were people didn't know you could do what we did and so know you could do what we did and so know you could do what we did and so you're like wow you can do that it very you're like wow you can do that it very you're like wow you can do that it very much a merit ocracy in my career anyway much a merit ocracy in my career anyway much a merit ocracy in my career anyway you can do that you're hired you can do you can do that you're hired you can do you can do that you're hired you can do that you're hired whereas now there's so that you're hired whereas now there's so that you're hired whereas now there's so much information out there it's easier much information out there it's easier much information out there it's easier for people in some way to get in on it for people in some way to get in on it for people in some way to get in on it and learn things quickly but are they as and learn things quickly but are they as and learn things quickly but are they as motivated or is there a difference let motivated or is there a difference let motivated or is there a difference let me let me frame it like this it's easier me let me frame it like this it's easier me let me frame it like this it's easier to get the information it is harder to to get the information it is harder to to get the information it is harder to get noticed when we were starting up get noticed when we were starting up get noticed when we were starting up there were like two or three books there were like two or three books there were like two or three books you're in the basement you have a you're in the basement you have a you're in the basement you have a question you can go on phonet or compy

question you can go on phonet or compy question you can go on phonet or compy serve and you can wait a couple of days serve and you can wait a couple of days serve and you can wait a couple of days yeah you send a box top to Kelloggs you yeah you send a box top to Kelloggs you yeah you send a box top to Kelloggs you get back a toy in 6 to8 weeks right get back a toy in 6 to8 weeks right get back a toy in 6 to8 weeks right right there's no idea of like Skyping a right there's no idea of like Skyping a right there's no idea of like Skyping a friend I remember writing on Compu serve friend I remember writing on Compu serve friend I remember writing on Compu serve to Dan appelman about his win 32 book to Dan appelman about his win 32 book to Dan appelman about his win 32 book Dan epelman wrote me back he he wrote me Dan epelman wrote me back he he wrote me Dan epelman wrote me back he he wrote me back always and he wrote me back fast at back always and he wrote me back fast at back always and he wrote me back fast at one point I literally said to him I one point I literally said to him I one point I literally said to him I don't understand how you're doing this don't understand how you're doing this don't understand how you're doing this and he's like I don't get as many and he's like I don't get as many and he's like I don't get as many questions as you think no I disagree I'm questions as you think no I disagree I'm questions as you think no I disagree I'm sure Dan get that lovely guy one of my sure Dan get that lovely guy one of my sure Dan get that lovely guy one of my Inspirations like when I grew up I want Inspirations like when I grew up I want Inspirations like when I grew up I want to be Dan appan like he he he was so to be Dan appan like he he he was so to be Dan appan like he he he was so kind another one of actually I have kind another one of actually I have kind another one of actually I have three favorite Dan small small side three favorite Dan small small side three favorite Dan small small side thing if this was a book this would be thing if this was a book this would be thing if this was a book this would be the little box in the corner of the book the little box in the corner of the book the little box in the corner of the book with the offsite you got your Dan appan with the offsite you got your Dan appan with the offsite you got your Dan appan lovely you got your Dan brickland lovely you got your Dan brickland lovely you got your Dan brickland yes right and then you got your Dan yes right and then you got your Dan yes right and then you got your Dan schiffman from the coding train schiffman from the coding train schiffman from the coding train processing wrote a processing langine processing wrote a processing langine processing wrote a processing langine was lovely you want to just meet who's was lovely you want to just meet who's was lovely you want to just meet who's the Mr Rogers or the the the uh the Bob the Mr Rogers or the the the uh the Bob the Mr Rogers or the the the uh the Bob Ross of programming Dan schiffman so Ross of programming Dan schiffman so Ross of programming Dan schiffman so because it's harder to get noticed now because it's harder to get noticed now because it's harder to get noticed now do you think is is like the current do you think is is like the current do you think is is like the current environment of social media Tik Tok environment of social media Tik Tok environment of social media Tik Tok stars and all of that where people want stars and all of that where people want stars and all of that where people want and to get noticed for being a developer and to get noticed for being a developer and to get noticed for being a developer takes too long like is that a barrier takes too long like is that a barrier takes too long like is that a barrier I'm trying to figure out like what's the I'm trying to figure out like what's the I'm trying to figure out like what's the difference between what what are difference between what what are difference between what what are challenges that young people have today challenges that young people have today challenges that young people have today that we may have had differently there that we may have had differently there that we may have had differently there is the getting noticed but there's also is the getting noticed but there's also is the getting noticed but there's also the does getting noticed matter yeah the does getting noticed matter yeah the does getting noticed matter yeah yeah right there are lots and lots I yeah right there are lots and lots I yeah right there are lots and lots I still stand by my my blog post about

still stand by my my blog post about still stand by my my blog post about Dark Matter developers so many years ago Dark Matter developers so many years ago Dark Matter developers so many years ago that said that uh there are a ton of for that said that uh there are a ton of for that said that uh there are a ton of for every one Twitter star there's a every one Twitter star there's a every one Twitter star there's a thousand people that are just doing the thousand people that are just doing the thousand people that are just doing the job doing the work and they're doing job doing the work and they're doing job doing the work and they're doing great and they're well-known in their great and they're well-known in their great and they're well-known in their space and that's fine I don't think space and that's fine I don't think space and that's fine I don't think Twitter and when I say Twitter I'm using Twitter and when I say Twitter I'm using Twitter and when I say Twitter I'm using the word like Kleenex the brand name the word like Kleenex the brand name the word like Kleenex the brand name Twitter means all of social media all Twitter means all of social media all Twitter means all of social media all soci you don't have to be you don't have soci you don't have to be you don't have soci you don't have to be you don't have to be a YouTuber yeah there's a lot of to be a YouTuber yeah there's a lot of to be a YouTuber yeah there's a lot of introverted people out there that have introverted people out there that have introverted people out there that have no reason to be on Twitter but they can no reason to be on Twitter but they can no reason to be on Twitter but they can consume mhm right um I I just think that consume mhm right um I I just think that consume mhm right um I I just think that we see the glamour but we are algor it we see the glamour but we are algor it we see the glamour but we are algor it is algorithmically designed to make us is algorithmically designed to make us is algorithmically designed to make us feel bad about ourselves right yeah so feel bad about ourselves right yeah so feel bad about ourselves right yeah so don't look to Twitter in somebody's don't look to Twitter in somebody's don't look to Twitter in somebody's freaking GitHub graph and go am I gr freaking GitHub graph and go am I gr freaking GitHub graph and go am I gr comparison is a thief of Joy right work comparison is a thief of Joy right work comparison is a thief of Joy right work on yourself the only person you should on yourself the only person you should on yourself the only person you should be comparing yourself against as you be comparing yourself against as you be comparing yourself against as you yesterday yeah I agree MH yeah see yesterday yeah I agree MH yeah see yesterday yeah I agree MH yeah see podcasting same thing like we both got podcasting same thing like we both got podcasting same thing like we both got into it we all got into it very early on into it we all got into it very early on into it we all got into it very early on and that's why net rocks and Hansel and that's why net rocks and Hansel and that's why net rocks and Hansel minuts became very popular arguably minuts became very popular arguably minuts became very popular arguably because we were the the go-to places to because we were the the go-to places to because we were the the go-to places to listen to for do net essentially and now listen to for do net essentially and now listen to for do net essentially and now everybody in the brother has a podcast everybody in the brother has a podcast everybody in the brother has a podcast and I love when somebody tells me have and I love when somebody tells me have and I love when somebody tells me have you heard of podcasting I look going you heard of podcasting I look going you heard of podcasting I look going no but people ask me for advice about no but people ask me for advice about no but people ask me for advice about podcasting and I do have to tell them podcasting and I do have to tell them podcasting and I do have to tell them that you have to grind nobody listened that you have to grind nobody listened that you have to grind nobody listened to the first 100 episodes of yep my show to the first 100 episodes of yep my show to the first 100 episodes of yep my show that the truth yeah right very few that the truth yeah right very few that the truth yeah right very few listen to the last 100 episodes but you

listen to the last 100 episodes but you listen to the last 100 episodes but you know like the first 100 were grind so know like the first 100 were grind so know like the first 100 were grind so then you just ask yourself well what's a then you just ask yourself well what's a then you just ask yourself well what's a good number and people like well if I good number and people like well if I good number and people like well if I don't get a thousand I don't it doesn't don't get a thousand I don't it doesn't don't get a thousand I don't it doesn't you get more than one yeah right did you get more than one yeah right did you get more than one yeah right did anyone listen who's not your mom that's anyone listen who's not your mom that's anyone listen who's not your mom that's awesome conat like seriously you get 10 awesome conat like seriously you get 10 awesome conat like seriously you get 10 listeners that was never the motivation listeners that was never the motivation listeners that was never the motivation 10x no it was never the motivation it 10x no it was never the motivation it 10x no it was never the motivation it was never the motivation it was the was never the motivation it was the was never the motivation it was the conversations right you know you you conversations right you know you you conversations right you know you you said this offline but let's you it was said this offline but let's you it was said this offline but let's you it was in the show actually I can't even in the show actually I can't even in the show actually I can't even remember now pretty consistent remember now pretty consistent remember now pretty consistent that the bugging from somebody to have that the bugging from somebody to have that the bugging from somebody to have coffee with them is annoying but ask coffee with them is annoying but ask coffee with them is annoying but ask them to come to the podcast is not but them to come to the podcast is not but them to come to the podcast is not but they're actually the same thing they are they're actually the same thing they are they're actually the same thing they are the same thing and I would encourage the same thing and I would encourage the same thing and I would encourage people if you are having great people if you are having great people if you are having great conversations to to document them right conversations to to document them right conversations to to document them right right about share them do so that other right about share them do so that other right about share them do so that other people can feel connected well that and people can feel connected well that and people can feel connected well that and that was your line right is you saw that was your line right is you saw that was your line right is you saw Rocky and Billy arguing over the first Rocky and Billy arguing over the first Rocky and Billy arguing over the first version atnet and thought everybody version atnet and thought everybody version atnet and thought everybody should hear this everybody should hear should hear this everybody should hear should hear this everybody should hear this conversation yeah cuz it was two this conversation yeah cuz it was two this conversation yeah cuz it was two really great minds that we there were a really great minds that we there were a really great minds that we there were a couple of times I don't know if we couple of times I don't know if we couple of times I don't know if we actually did a show but we did attempt actually did a show but we did attempt actually did a show but we did attempt to record conversations in the lobbies to record conversations in the lobbies to record conversations in the lobbies of hotels because there's this magic of hotels because there's this magic of hotels because there's this magic that happens somewhere around 9:30 in that happens somewhere around 9:30 in that happens somewhere around 9:30 in the lobby of the Hilton after the you the lobby of the Hilton after the you the lobby of the Hilton after the you know the thing and everyone's kind of know the thing and everyone's kind of know the thing and everyone's kind of quiet and tired and they're coming down quiet and tired and they're coming down quiet and tired and they're coming down from an exciting day one or day two and from an exciting day one or day two and from an exciting day one or day two and then and they're reflective and then then and they're reflective and then then and they're reflective and then there's just Vibes we did a show at D there's just Vibes we did a show at D there's just Vibes we did a show at D and rocks called the speakers lounge and and rocks called the speakers lounge and and rocks called the speakers lounge and you were on it and I will be quizzing you were on it and I will be quizzing you were on it and I will be quizzing you about these shows oh Lord after the you about these shows oh Lord after the you about these shows oh Lord after the break I don't remember the things that break I don't remember the things that break I don't remember the things that you said don't worry they're multiple you said don't worry they're multiple you said don't worry they're multiple choice and uh yeah it was very much like choice and uh yeah it was very much like choice and uh yeah it was very much like that and and that was the because we all that and and that was the because we all that and and that was the because we all had these great conversations in the had these great conversations in the had these great conversations in the hallways outside or in the speaker L

hallways outside or in the speaker L hallways outside or in the speaker L yeah literally trying to capture the yeah literally trying to capture the yeah literally trying to capture the hallway track yeah right but but you hallway track yeah right but but you hallway track yeah right but but you make the point it's like there are make the point it's like there are make the point it's like there are certain times in the day where you're certain times in the day where you're certain times in the day where you're more reflective and it's a great time to more reflective and it's a great time to more reflective and it's a great time to catch a story nighttime quiet is the catch a story nighttime quiet is the catch a story nighttime quiet is the time for me that's when I'm reflective time for me that's when I'm reflective time for me that's when I'm reflective or when I'm re tired well I definitely or when I'm re tired well I definitely or when I'm re tired well I definitely remember you and I doing like a Hansel remember you and I doing like a Hansel remember you and I doing like a Hansel minutia in the corner of a Lobby of a minutia in the corner of a Lobby of a minutia in the corner of a Lobby of a hotel somewhere and in the evening and hotel somewhere and in the evening and hotel somewhere and in the evening and you know she's riffing my most fond you know she's riffing my most fond you know she's riffing my most fond Lobby of a hotel moment was Lobby of a hotel moment was Lobby of a hotel moment was in in in Stockholm and you busted out a guitar oh Stockholm and you busted out a guitar oh Stockholm and you busted out a guitar oh yeah and started doing um what did you I yeah and started doing um what did you I yeah and started doing um what did you I forgot the video I was recording on a forgot the video I was recording on a forgot the video I was recording on a flip cam nice what this is pre- flip cam nice what this is pre- flip cam nice what this is pre- smartphone holy crap and you had a smartphone holy crap and you had a smartphone holy crap and you had a guitar and you just busted out some I guitar and you just busted out some I guitar and you just busted out some I don't know what it was it was I'm not a don't know what it was it was I'm not a don't know what it was it was I'm not a classic rock guy but you just start classic rock guy but you just start classic rock guy but you just start started busking in the middle of the started busking in the middle of the started busking in the middle of the lobby of the hotel that's cool and I had lobby of the hotel that's cool and I had lobby of the hotel that's cool and I had a flip phone it was freaking amazing you a flip phone it was freaking amazing you a flip phone it was freaking amazing you know what I mean definitely set a Vibe know what I mean definitely set a Vibe know what I mean definitely set a Vibe So speaking of music I experienced this So speaking of music I experienced this So speaking of music I experienced this from the opposite side uh in music right from the opposite side uh in music right from the opposite side uh in music right in the music business I am not popular I in the music business I am not popular I in the music business I am not popular I did not ride the wave of the 60s and 70s did not ride the wave of the 60s and 70s did not ride the wave of the 60s and 70s and I wasn't in the right place at the and I wasn't in the right place at the and I wasn't in the right place at the right time in LA when the things were right time in LA when the things were right time in LA when the things were happening but um so the music business happening but um so the music business happening but um so the music business you know I feel like I was born too late you know I feel like I was born too late you know I feel like I was born too late to be noticed and uh so by the time I to be noticed and uh so by the time I to be noticed and uh so by the time I was good enough as an artist according was good enough as an artist according was good enough as an artist according to me to create an album it it was to me to create an album it it was to me to create an album it it was harder and harder like albums didn't harder and harder like albums didn't harder and harder like albums didn't exist anymore and oh now we're in exist anymore and oh now we're in exist anymore and oh now we're in cassettes so then I started making home

cassettes so then I started making home cassettes so then I started making home cassettes but you know and then CDs and cassettes but you know and then CDs and cassettes but you know and then CDs and I thought okay I'll make a CD by the I thought okay I'll make a CD by the I thought okay I'll make a CD by the time I was able to afford Studio time I was able to afford Studio time I was able to afford Studio production and make a CD that was right production and make a CD that was right production and make a CD that was right on the right about the time where people on the right about the time where people on the right about the time where people didn't want CDs anymore so I kind of didn't want CDs anymore so I kind of didn't want CDs anymore so I kind of feel ripped off a little bit but now feel ripped off a little bit but now feel ripped off a little bit but now that vinyl is coming back I'm actually that vinyl is coming back I'm actually that vinyl is coming back I'm actually going to do a vinyl out I would buy a going to do a vinyl out I would buy a going to do a vinyl out I would buy a Carl Franklin vinyl press wouldn't that Carl Franklin vinyl press wouldn't that Carl Franklin vinyl press wouldn't that be cool that'd be amazing it's not going be cool that'd be amazing it's not going be cool that'd be amazing it's not going to be cheap either but it's to be full to be cheap either but it's to be full to be cheap either but it's to be full of Kickstarter yeah exactly yeah but of Kickstarter yeah exactly yeah but of Kickstarter yeah exactly yeah but also you know what's interesting about also you know what's interesting about also you know what's interesting about that vinyl movement is really the music that vinyl movement is really the music that vinyl movement is really the music as ceremony yes one thing I mean I don't as ceremony yes one thing I mean I don't as ceremony yes one thing I mean I don't know people know this but you and I have know people know this but you and I have know people know this but you and I have been hanging around with each other for been hanging around with each other for been hanging around with each other for a fairly long time long long time fairly a fairly long time long long time fairly a fairly long time long long time fairly long time one thing I know about you you long time one thing I know about you you long time one thing I know about you you do love to play but you want people to do love to play but you want people to do love to play but you want people to listen yeah you are not willing to be listen yeah you are not willing to be listen yeah you are not willing to be background noise it's very Soul draining background noise it's very Soul draining background noise it's very Soul draining when I have those and and you're you're when I have those and and you're you're when I have those and and you're you're volunteering you're not being paid like volunteering you're not being paid like volunteering you're not being paid like you're just going to play just want to you're just going to play just want to you're just going to play just want to play yeah home at last okay that was the play yeah home at last okay that was the play yeah home at last okay that was the song that was the song that's one of song that was the song that's one of song that was the song that's one of your favorites that's on it was in your favorites that's on it was in your favorites that's on it was in Sweden I did a video of that was a Sweden I did a video of that was a Sweden I did a video of that was a silver L video you did a video with uh silver L video you did a video with uh silver L video you did a video with uh you playing each individual yeah yeah you playing each individual yeah yeah you playing each individual yeah yeah thing it was an experimenting video for thing it was an experimenting video for thing it was an experimenting video for you as well as you were using the you as well as you were using the you as well as you were using the silverite publishing engine it was very silverite publishing engine it was very silverite publishing engine it was very Jacob Collier uh you were you know what Jacob Collier uh you were you know what Jacob Collier uh you were you know what I mean you were just riing and like it I mean you were just riing and like it I mean you were just riing and like it was very early early on because people was very early early on because people was very early early on because people now do those kind of videos all the time now do those kind of videos all the time now do those kind of videos all the time where like you bring in the next person where like you bring in the next person where like you bring in the next person and the same guy in a different thing and the same guy in a different thing and the same guy in a different thing right and the and the btle of Woodford right and the and the btle of Woodford right and the and the btle of Woodford and every shot Woodford and every shot I and every shot Woodford and every shot I and every shot Woodford and every shot I did a better one called waiting for the

did a better one called waiting for the did a better one called waiting for the summer to come where I actually had one summer to come where I actually had one summer to come where I actually had one shot with all all me in it in four shot with all all me in it in four shot with all all me in it in four different instruments at the same time different instruments at the same time different instruments at the same time and I could zoom and pan across it it's and I could zoom and pan across it it's and I could zoom and pan across it it's really cool that's amazing I remember really cool that's amazing I remember really cool that's amazing I remember that one too but anyway um so so I'm that one too but anyway um so so I'm that one too but anyway um so so I'm wondering what developers that are wondering what developers that are wondering what developers that are younger think I mean are the golden younger think I mean are the golden younger think I mean are the golden years of software development gone does years of software development gone does years of software development gone does it matter that genen Z and millennials it matter that genen Z and millennials it matter that genen Z and millennials didn't grow up on the bleeding edge does didn't grow up on the bleeding edge does didn't grow up on the bleeding edge does it does having more choices today from it does having more choices today from it does having more choices today from sophisticated tools and platforms make sophisticated tools and platforms make sophisticated tools and platforms make it easier or harder to break in you it easier or harder to break in you it easier or harder to break in you talked about this makes it harder to get talked about this makes it harder to get talked about this makes it harder to get noticed but do you you you you told me noticed but do you you you you told me noticed but do you you you you told me that your goal now is to be the Mr that your goal now is to be the Mr that your goal now is to be the Mr Rogers of development and sort of talk Rogers of development and sort of talk Rogers of development and sort of talk to the young people what kind of to the young people what kind of to the young people what kind of feedback are you getting from the young feedback are you getting from the young feedback are you getting from the young people that um about writing software people that um about writing software people that um about writing software about you know the things that we were about you know the things that we were about you know the things that we were doing versus now today I think that the doing versus now today I think that the doing versus now today I think that the stack is really deep yeah and uh most stack is really deep yeah and uh most stack is really deep yeah and uh most people go kind of to http and not much people go kind of to http and not much people go kind of to http and not much farther I think that a lot of things farther I think that a lot of things farther I think that a lot of things that we learn building home networks that we learn building home networks that we learn building home networks yeah you just buy a you know Google mesh yeah you just buy a you know Google mesh yeah you just buy a you know Google mesh or whatever and it just just works right or whatever and it just just works right or whatever and it just just works right so I'll I'll I'll make a comment about so I'll I'll I'll make a comment about so I'll I'll I'll make a comment about you know rest and then we'll start you know rest and then we'll start you know rest and then we'll start talking about HTTP and then we're talking about HTTP and then we're talking about HTTP and then we're talking about TCP and then we we hit we talking about TCP and then we we hit we talking about TCP and then we we hit we hit the granite very hit the granite very hit the granite very quickly magic Network stuff yeah and quickly magic Network stuff yeah and quickly magic Network stuff yeah and then and then a miracle happens a then and then a miracle happens a then and then a miracle happens a miracle happens Far Side I love it I I'm miracle happens Far Side I love it I I'm miracle happens Far Side I love it I I'm I mean I I you know we're all I mean I I you know we're all I mean I I you know we're all storytellers here and I do know I can

storytellers here and I do know I can storytellers here and I do know I can engage people to take them down through engage people to take them down through engage people to take them down through the stack and and those things and they the stack and and those things and they the stack and and those things and they often are interested uh not often are interested uh not often are interested uh not always you to ask first but you talk always you to ask first but you talk always you to ask first but you talk about the old guy no the old guy no is about the old guy no the old guy no is about the old guy no the old guy no is well I had to learn this before I could well I had to learn this before I could well I had to learn this before I could work so you have to learn this before work so you have to learn this before work so you have to learn this before you any right so the example that I give you any right so the example that I give you any right so the example that I give uh you know and it try to give a gender uh you know and it try to give a gender uh you know and it try to give a gender non-specific old guy know here which is non-specific old guy know here which is non-specific old guy know here which is the uh my 16-year-old wants to drive so the uh my 16-year-old wants to drive so the uh my 16-year-old wants to drive so should he learn how to drive stick and should he learn how to drive stick and should he learn how to drive stick and the fact is he doesn't need a drive the fact is he doesn't need a drive the fact is he doesn't need a drive stick no not in America uh you know if stick no not in America uh you know if stick no not in America uh you know if in Europe or he wants to experience farf in Europe or he wants to experience farf in Europe or he wants to experience farf Nan in you know in in in America 3 to 4% Nan in you know in in in America 3 to 4% Nan in you know in in in America 3 to 4% of cars are stick um in Europe it's more of cars are stick um in Europe it's more of cars are stick um in Europe it's more like 50 or 60 but the point is he lives like 50 or 60 but the point is he lives like 50 or 60 but the point is he lives here so then the question is well Uber here so then the question is well Uber here so then the question is well Uber is a thing yeah well we don't live in a is a thing yeah well we don't live in a is a thing yeah well we don't live in a big big city but there are perfectly big big city but there are perfectly big big city but there are perfectly cromulent New Yorkers that are living cromulent New Yorkers that are living cromulent New Yorkers that are living their lives without ever having gotten their lives without ever having gotten their lives without ever having gotten their licenses um my stepdaughter is one their licenses um my stepdaughter is one their licenses um my stepdaughter is one of them and that's fine yeah so if I of them and that's fine yeah so if I of them and that's fine yeah so if I were to to insist and say well young man were to to insist and say well young man were to to insist and say well young man you have to change your oil and and and you have to change your oil and and and you have to change your oil and and and change your tire and learn how to drive change your tire and learn how to drive change your tire and learn how to drive stick and then I'll give you an stick and then I'll give you an stick and then I'll give you an automatic and you have to learn how to automatic and you have to learn how to automatic and you have to learn how to code an assembler and debug a dump and code an assembler and debug a dump and code an assembler and debug a dump and then I'll give you a garbage then I'll give you a garbage then I'll give you a garbage collector that would be disrespectful collector that would be disrespectful collector that would be disrespectful yeah and stupid to let them know that yeah and stupid to let them know that yeah and stupid to let them know that the information is available if they the information is available if they the information is available if they want yeah I always have encouraged and want yeah I always have encouraged and want yeah I always have encouraged and people who've heard me before we'll people who've heard me before we'll people who've heard me before we'll we'll say yeah this your Handelman like

we'll say yeah this your Handelman like we'll say yeah this your Handelman like six phrases but take the level that six phrases but take the level that six phrases but take the level that you're currently working at and go one you're currently working at and go one you're currently working at and go one level below your comfort zone yes so if level below your comfort zone yes so if level below your comfort zone yes so if you're a JavaScript person like you're a JavaScript person like you're a JavaScript person like understand how V8 works if you're a net understand how V8 works if you're a net understand how V8 works if you're a net person how does the CLR work yeah you person how does the CLR work yeah you person how does the CLR work yeah you don't have to learn how to like smelt don't have to learn how to like smelt don't have to learn how to like smelt your own iron or generate your own your own iron or generate your own your own iron or generate your own electricity right you don't have to take electricity right you don't have to take electricity right you don't have to take the Rock and inject lightning and make the Rock and inject lightning and make the Rock and inject lightning and make think but it's it's nice to have a sense think but it's it's nice to have a sense think but it's it's nice to have a sense of systems thinking and how these things of systems thinking and how these things of systems thinking and how these things all together and I will say though that all together and I will say though that all together and I will say though that there are people there are personalities there are people there are personalities there are people there are personalities there are types of people who are there are types of people who are there are types of people who are naturally systems thinkers yeah one of naturally systems thinkers yeah one of naturally systems thinkers yeah one of the stories that I love to tell was the stories that I love to tell was the stories that I love to tell was doing a a black girls code presentation doing a a black girls code presentation doing a a black girls code presentation and I was saying look we're going to and I was saying look we're going to and I was saying look we're going to learn how to code we're going to debug a learn how to code we're going to debug a learn how to code we're going to debug a problem hey let's debug a problem all problem hey let's debug a problem all problem hey let's debug a problem all the kids all 14 15year old high school the kids all 14 15year old high school the kids all 14 15year old high school kids and I said all right everybody my kids and I said all right everybody my kids and I said all right everybody my toaster is broken M and I pause and I toaster is broken M and I pause and I toaster is broken M and I pause and I make it really awkward and I say I make it really awkward and I say I make it really awkward and I say I really want toast and they're like well really want toast and they're like well really want toast and they're like well you should buy a new toaster and I said you should buy a new toaster and I said you should buy a new toaster and I said that's one way to solve it we can that's one way to solve it we can that's one way to solve it we can probably do that but what if I buy a new probably do that but what if I buy a new probably do that but what if I buy a new toaster and it doesn't work and toaster and it doesn't work and toaster and it doesn't work and someone's like well is there is there someone's like well is there is there someone's like well is there is there any electricity is there power and any electricity is there power and any electricity is there power and they're all sitting there thinking and they're all sitting there thinking and they're all sitting there thinking and then one girl in the back yells out do then one girl in the back yells out do then one girl in the back yells out do the neighbors have power look outside the neighbors have power look outside the neighbors have power look outside are the lights on on the street we were are the lights on on the street we were are the lights on on the street we were talking about toast toast all I wanted talking about toast toast all I wanted talking about toast toast all I wanted was hot bread and and and that's that's was hot bread and and and that's that's was hot bread and and and that's that's a programmer like whoever she is she's a programmer like whoever she is she's a programmer like whoever she is she's wired she she's like it's probably DNS wired she she's like it's probably DNS wired she she's like it's probably DNS look outside it's DNS it's not DNS be DN

look outside it's DNS it's not DNS be DN look outside it's DNS it's not DNS be DN okay it's DNS the but the fundamental okay it's DNS the but the fundamental okay it's DNS the but the fundamental the the like going from point A to point the the like going from point A to point the the like going from point A to point D or Point G that's how programmers like D or Point G that's how programmers like D or Point G that's how programmers like debug things and the fact that she was debug things and the fact that she was debug things and the fact that she was able to go I understand the system in able to go I understand the system in able to go I understand the system in which the toaster exists and exists in which the toaster exists and exists in which the toaster exists and exists in one where power is a thing right and one where power is a thing right and one where power is a thing right and maybe maybe the neighborhood had a power maybe maybe the neighborhood had a power maybe maybe the neighborhood had a power routage yeah yeah it's great it's great routage yeah yeah it's great it's great routage yeah yeah it's great it's great context context context I've also come to be really comfortable I've also come to be really comfortable I've also come to be really comfortable with the idea that they're not only with the idea that they're not only with the idea that they're not only different species of programmers but different species of programmers but different species of programmers but they all and there are versions that are they all and there are versions that are they all and there are versions that are their best selves yeah you know they're their best selves yeah you know they're their best selves yeah you know they're not all developers are the same they're not all developers are the same they're not all developers are the same they're not even close to the same you know it's not even close to the same you know it's not even close to the same you know it's one of the biggest problems you deal one of the biggest problems you deal one of the biggest problems you deal with is folks thinking well I can plug with is folks thinking well I can plug with is folks thinking well I can plug any programmer to any pro problem it's any programmer to any pro problem it's any programmer to any pro problem it's just not true you know certainly working just not true you know certainly working just not true you know certainly working around Microsoft as I have for so many around Microsoft as I have for so many around Microsoft as I have for so many years is like do you know how many years is like do you know how many years is like do you know how many places there are to work where you write places there are to work where you write places there are to work where you write programming languages yeah like five and programming languages yeah like five and programming languages yeah like five and the folks that are good at that that the folks that are good at that that the folks that are good at that that love that they're a different species love that they're a different species love that they're a different species and it's the same like building great and it's the same like building great and it's the same like building great teams over the years is like that guy teams over the years is like that guy teams over the years is like that guy loves networking he's got a knack for it loves networking he's got a knack for it loves networking he's got a knack for it like that's the piece he wants to follow like that's the piece he wants to follow like that's the piece he wants to follow your bliss yeah follow your bliss and your bliss yeah follow your bliss and your bliss yeah follow your bliss and and value each of them and good leaders and value each of them and good leaders and value each of them and good leaders go and put the puzzle pieces together go and put the puzzle pieces together go and put the puzzle pieces together everybody doing their favorite thing and everybody doing their favorite thing and everybody doing their favorite thing and it makes a whole thing Scott hunter it makes a whole thing Scott hunter it makes a whole thing Scott hunter likes to say if you're putting together likes to say if you're putting together likes to say if you're putting together a team a basketball team you should hire a team a basketball team you should hire a team a basketball team you should hire for height right so I don't care I don't height right so I don't care I don't care about your I've T this before I care about your I've T this before I care about your I've T this before I don't care about your degree where you don't care about your degree where you don't care about your degree where you came from your your native language if came from your your native language if came from your your native language if you're tall I can teach you the ball you're tall I can teach you the ball you're tall I can teach you the ball handling and dribbling right so like oh handling and dribbling right so like oh handling and dribbling right so like oh I learned uh you know like I learned I learned uh you know like I learned I learned uh you know like I learned JavaScript okay we'll teach you C I

JavaScript okay we'll teach you C I JavaScript okay we'll teach you C I learned rust okay we'll teach you VB or learned rust okay we'll teach you VB or learned rust okay we'll teach you VB or whatever it's easier it's easier for a whatever it's easier it's easier for a whatever it's easier it's easier for a tall person to just put the ball just tall person to just put the ball just tall person to just put the ball just just put it in exactly just reach over just put it in exactly just reach over just put it in exactly just reach over and dunk it in and of course to to our and dunk it in and of course to to our and dunk it in and of course to to our friends who may not get that analogy friends who may not get that analogy friends who may not get that analogy we're talking about like intellectual we're talking about like intellectual we're talking about like intellectual height just like if you're if you're height just like if you're if you're height just like if you're if you're professionally curious if you're excited professionally curious if you're excited professionally curious if you're excited mhm one of my most favorite programmers mhm one of my most favorite programmers mhm one of my most favorite programmers is safia Abdullah on the asp.net team is safia Abdullah on the asp.net team is safia Abdullah on the asp.net team she great she's a beast and I think she she great she's a beast and I think she she great she's a beast and I think she didn't even know C when she came to work didn't even know C when she came to work didn't even know C when she came to work at the company she was a python person at the company she was a python person at the company she was a python person you know but she you can see her like you know but she you can see her like you know but she you can see her like the Matrix she's putting code together the Matrix she's putting code together the Matrix she's putting code together in her brain and snapping things in her brain and snapping things in her brain and snapping things together so it's not about the syntax together so it's not about the syntax together so it's not about the syntax it's about given tool just before we it's about given tool just before we it's about given tool just before we break here my brother was a marine uh break here my brother was a marine uh break here my brother was a marine uh engineer Naval architect and uh so he engineer Naval architect and uh so he engineer Naval architect and uh so he went to school for Ann Arbor for went to school for Ann Arbor for went to school for Ann Arbor for engineering got his degree and then he engineering got his degree and then he engineering got his degree and then he was like I don't like this anymore and I was like I don't like this anymore and I was like I don't like this anymore and I was like yeah you should get into was like yeah you should get into was like yeah you should get into programming so he took a VB class after programming so he took a VB class after programming so he took a VB class after graduating the VB class he went right to graduating the VB class he went right to graduating the VB class he went right to work for a company learning Java work for a company learning Java work for a company learning Java JavaScript um Ms like there was like JavaScript um Ms like there was like JavaScript um Ms like there was like several languages that he learned and several languages that he learned and several languages that he learned and he's been there ever since because he he's been there ever since because he he's been there ever since because he could just adapt he had the engineer could just adapt he had the engineer could just adapt he had the engineer brain yeah and I and and all of those brain yeah and I and and all of those brain yeah and I and and all of those examples that we're giving are examples examples that we're giving are examples examples that we're giving are examples of people feeling empowered being of people feeling empowered being of people feeling empowered being empowered by the people around them like empowered by the people around them like empowered by the people around them like you encouraging him and I want the young you encouraging him and I want the young you encouraging him and I want the young people and the early in career people people and the early in career people people and the early in career people the code switchers to feel empowered one the code switchers to feel empowered one the code switchers to feel empowered one of my faves there's a gentleman named of my faves there's a gentleman named of my faves there's a gentleman named Lawrence uh who's on Twitter at Lawrence

Lawrence uh who's on Twitter at Lawrence Lawrence uh who's on Twitter at Lawrence codes he was in Hospitality for 25 years codes he was in Hospitality for 25 years codes he was in Hospitality for 25 years wow and he started being curious about wow and he started being curious about wow and he started being curious about tech and he's like there's no reason I tech and he's like there's no reason I tech and he's like there's no reason I can't do that why not me yeah yeah yeah can't do that why not me yeah yeah yeah can't do that why not me yeah yeah yeah why not be very powerful statement Y and why not be very powerful statement Y and why not be very powerful statement Y and uh I guess is it quiz time well you're uh I guess is it quiz time well you're uh I guess is it quiz time well you're up man I I was not told there would be a up man I I was not told there would be a up man I I was not told there would be a quiz no wait before we do the quiz um is quiz no wait before we do the quiz um is quiz no wait before we do the quiz um is there anything that any sole message there anything that any sole message there anything that any sole message that you want to tell the people from that you want to tell the people from that you want to tell the people from your perspective as a VP from being here your perspective as a VP from being here your perspective as a VP from being here at build what's the message if you if at build what's the message if you if at build what's the message if you if you like a thing or if you don't like a you like a thing or if you don't like a you like a thing or if you don't like a thing vote with your feet interesting thing vote with your feet interesting thing vote with your feet interesting you you have power you have you power if you you have power you have you power if you you have power you have you power if you don't if you don't like it tell you don't if you don't like it tell you don't if you don't like it tell people that you don't like it if you people that you don't like it if you people that you don't like it if you like it tell people that you like it uh like it tell people that you like it uh like it tell people that you like it uh Microsoft is not a monolith it's a big Microsoft is not a monolith it's a big Microsoft is not a monolith it's a big giant company it's 300,000 people your giant company it's 300,000 people your giant company it's 300,000 people your quote that is that yeah we are not quote that is that yeah we are not quote that is that yeah we are not organized enough to be as evil as you're organized enough to be as evil as you're organized enough to be as evil as you're accusing us of being oh yeah yeah we are accusing us of being oh yeah yeah we are accusing us of being oh yeah yeah we are not as organized as to be as evil as you not as organized as to be as evil as you not as organized as to be as evil as you think we are yeah yeah absolutely we're think we are yeah yeah absolutely we're think we are yeah yeah absolutely we're just a bunch of Stormtroopers running just a bunch of Stormtroopers running just a bunch of Stormtroopers running around on the whacking into each other around on the whacking into each other around on the whacking into each other whacking into each other on the desar no whacking into each other on the desar no whacking into each other on the desar no but like it's there's a lot of really but like it's there's a lot of really but like it's there's a lot of really smart people have empathy because every smart people have empathy because every smart people have empathy because every feature every button every every idea feature every button every every idea feature every button every every idea was a human behind it and if you presume was a human behind it and if you presume was a human behind it and if you presume that they're doing their very best to that they're doing their very best to that they're doing their very best to make a a fun and exciting and and safe make a a fun and exciting and and safe make a a fun and exciting and and safe and responsible private product for you and responsible private product for you and responsible private product for you engage with those people cuz they're all engage with those people cuz they're all engage with those people cuz they're all out there you don't see apple Engineers out there you don't see apple Engineers out there you don't see apple Engineers on social media you can't just find the on social media you can't just find the on social media you can't just find the owner of the thing yeah no they're owner of the thing yeah no they're owner of the thing yeah no they're they're strictly against you generally

they're strictly against you generally they're strictly against you generally speaking Apple employees aren't allowed speaking Apple employees aren't allowed speaking Apple employees aren't allowed to admit they work for after yeah to to admit they work for after yeah to to admit they work for after yeah to Microsoft's credit if you like a thing Microsoft's credit if you like a thing Microsoft's credit if you like a thing or you don't like a thing you can find or you don't like a thing you can find or you don't like a thing you can find that person and say hey here's some that person and say hey here's some that person and say hey here's some feedback and we'll usually listen and I feedback and we'll usually listen and I feedback and we'll usually listen and I think I'm not off base by saying one of think I'm not off base by saying one of think I'm not off base by saying one of your catchphrases is don't be mean don't your catchphrases is don't be mean don't your catchphrases is don't be mean don't be a dick you'll get a lot further yeah be a dick you'll get a lot further yeah be a dick you'll get a lot further yeah I actually had a t-shirt I was going to I actually had a t-shirt I was going to I actually had a t-shirt I was going to wear today that said work hard and be wear today that said work hard and be wear today that said work hard and be nice ni uh but it doesn't fit anymore nice ni uh but it doesn't fit anymore nice ni uh but it doesn't fit anymore there's well there's a there's a classic there's well there's a there's a classic there's well there's a there's a classic photo of you that's very old of you photo of you that's very old of you photo of you that's very old of you holding up a Post-It note that says why holding up a Post-It note that says why holding up a Post-It note that says why so mean yeah I just think people should so mean yeah I just think people should so mean yeah I just think people should be pleasant that's all I agree all right be pleasant that's all I agree all right be pleasant that's all I agree all right let's get into the quiz so what I did let's get into the quiz so what I did let's get into the quiz so what I did was I went back through all the shows was I went back through all the shows was I went back through all the shows that you were ever in and I pulled out that you were ever in and I pulled out that you were ever in and I pulled out some questions that we asked you or some questions that we asked you or some questions that we asked you or things that you said and we're going to things that you said and we're going to things that you said and we're going to see how well you're how good you do know see how well you're how good you do know see how well you're how good you do know that I not known for a memory like I that I not known for a memory like I that I not known for a memory like I live in a this should be a l of fun I live in a this should be a l of fun I live in a this should be a l of fun I live in a blissful window of 3 days in live in a blissful window of 3 days in live in a blissful window of 3 days in either direction I don't know what's either direction I don't know what's either direction I don't know what's going on first question in episode 17 going on first question in episode 17 going on first question in episode 17 published in March published in March published in March 2003 I asked you what is the one Windows 2003 I asked you what is the one Windows 2003 I asked you what is the one Windows tool you can't live without and you said tool you can't live without and you said tool you can't live without and you said a seven zip B Dave's search bar or C a seven zip B Dave's search bar or C a seven zip B Dave's search bar or C open Office open Office open Office 2003 I don't think that seven zip 2003 I don't think that seven zip 2003 I don't think that seven zip existed in 200 three I think it was RN existed in 200 three I think it was RN existed in 200 three I think it was RN WinRAR for arge which you still haven't WinRAR for arge which you still haven't WinRAR for arge which you still haven't paid for I I did the research seven zip paid for I I did the research seven zip paid for I I did the research seven zip did indeed exist in 2003 did indeed exist in 2003 did indeed exist in 2003 2003 Dave search bar I likeed quick run 2003 Dave search bar I likeed quick run 2003 Dave search bar I likeed quick run slick run in Open Office I would have to

slick run in Open Office I would have to slick run in Open Office I would have to it's going to be either it's not open it's going to be either it's not open it's going to be either it's not open Office it's going to be Dave search bar Office it's going to be Dave search bar Office it's going to be Dave search bar or it's going to be seven zip pick one or it's going to be seven zip pick one or it's going to be seven zip pick one let's go with Dave search bar here's the let's go with Dave search bar here's the let's go with Dave search bar here's the answer you know if I could say there's answer you know if I could say there's answer you know if I could say there's one tool that I would install Windows one tool that I would install Windows one tool that I would install Windows and then install that Tool uh it would and then install that Tool uh it would and then install that Tool uh it would be Dave's search be Dave's search be Dave's search bar bar bar correct that's awesome oh my God all correct that's awesome oh my God all correct that's awesome oh my God all right here's here's the well reasoned right here's here's the well reasoned right here's here's the well reasoned good Lord yeah all right so in episode good Lord yeah all right so in episode good Lord yeah all right so in episode 51 from February 2004 you told us you 51 from February 2004 you told us you 51 from February 2004 you told us you had lasic surgery on your eyes oh God had lasic surgery on your eyes oh God had lasic surgery on your eyes oh God which you did what was the startling which you did what was the startling which you did what was the startling fact that you discovered during this fact that you discovered during this fact that you discovered during this process that a the laser itself was hot process that a the laser itself was hot process that a the laser itself was hot pink and you were waiting for nurse pink and you were waiting for nurse pink and you were waiting for nurse Barbie to walk in Barbie to walk in Barbie to walk in B you were surprised to learn you would B you were surprised to learn you would B you were surprised to learn you would not be under general anesthesia or C the not be under general anesthesia or C the not be under general anesthesia or C the machine was running Windows 98 see 100% machine was running Windows 98 see 100% machine was running Windows 98 see 100% I mentioned this yesterday no kidding I mentioned this yesterday no kidding I mentioned this yesterday no kidding because I was talking to Shae Pierce because I was talking to Shae Pierce because I was talking to Shae Pierce person and she just got lasic and I person and she just got lasic and I person and she just got lasic and I pulled out that out of the archives that pulled out that out of the archives that pulled out that out of the archives that I in fact had a very old here's the I in fact had a very old here's the I in fact had a very old here's the answer I had laser surgery on my eyes a answer I had laser surgery on my eyes a answer I had laser surgery on my eyes a couple of days ago really and and damn couple of days ago really and and damn couple of days ago really and and damn it if the machine wasn't running Windows 98 I am nothing if not consist that was 98 I am nothing if not consist that was Rory yeah said really yeah oh wow yeah Rory yeah said really yeah oh wow yeah Rory yeah said really yeah oh wow yeah it was mhm okay you you've Batten a it was mhm okay you you've Batten a it was mhm okay you you've Batten a th000 so far in episode 70 called the th000 so far in episode 70 called the th000 so far in episode 70 called the speakers Lounge which we talked about speakers Lounge which we talked about speakers Lounge which we talked about recorded July 2004 you had sent me a recorded July 2004 you had sent me a recorded July 2004 you had sent me a bunch of topics that we could talk about

bunch of topics that we could talk about bunch of topics that we could talk about and when I asked you what's on your mind and when I asked you what's on your mind and when I asked you what's on your mind what did you answer a you were what did you answer a you were what did you answer a you were fascinated with the the artist fascinated with the the artist fascinated with the the artist Usher B the final episode of Friends Usher B the final episode of Friends Usher B the final episode of Friends Made You Weep like a baby Made You Weep like a baby Made You Weep like a baby or see you forgot the list of topics or see you forgot the list of topics or see you forgot the list of topics what year was this what year was this what year was this 2004 July 2004 July 2004 July 2004 fascinated with Usher final episode 2004 fascinated with Usher final episode 2004 fascinated with Usher final episode of Friends made you cry or you forgot of Friends made you cry or you forgot of Friends made you cry or you forgot the list of I'm going to say it's Usher the list of I'm going to say it's Usher the list of I'm going to say it's Usher but it's probably I forgot the list of but it's probably I forgot the list of but it's probably I forgot the list of topics here's the answer so we want to topics here's the answer so we want to topics here's the answer so we want to know what's on your mind and I guess uh know what's on your mind and I guess uh know what's on your mind and I guess uh Scott brought up some good topics Scott Scott brought up some good topics Scott Scott brought up some good topics Scott what's on your mind uh I think I emailed what's on your mind uh I think I emailed what's on your mind uh I think I emailed it to you and then at that point I've it to you and then at that point I've it to you and then at that point I've forgotten forgotten forgotten it see it see it see I'm I'm I'm taking that one as the win I'm I'm I'm taking that one as the win I'm I'm I'm taking that one as the win absolutely totally you're three for it absolutely totally you're three for it absolutely totally you're three for it should have been Usher I remember you should have been Usher I remember you should have been Usher I remember you and I planning out a a a Handel minutia and I planning out a a a Handel minutia and I planning out a a a Handel minutia oh no right we sort of batted some stuff oh no right we sort of batted some stuff oh no right we sort of batted some stuff back and forth what we were going to back and forth what we were going to back and forth what we were going to talk about and then you went to Chipotle talk about and then you went to Chipotle talk about and then you went to Chipotle inevitably and got on their Wi-Fi and inevitably and got on their Wi-Fi and inevitably and got on their Wi-Fi and their Wi-Fi had been their Wi-Fi had been their Wi-Fi had been hijacked oh I remember that and you came hijacked oh I remember that and you came hijacked oh I remember that and you came and when you got it's l like an hour and when you got it's l like an hour and when you got it's l like an hour later we've made this perfect plan it's later we've made this perfect plan it's later we've made this perfect plan it's like I'm going to get something to eat like I'm going to get something to eat like I'm going to get something to eat I'll come back then we'll record okay I'll come back then we'll record okay I'll come back then we'll record okay get back we are only going to talk about get back we are only going to talk about get back we are only going to talk about hijacked Wi-Fi from now on yeah whole hijacked Wi-Fi from now on yeah whole hijacked Wi-Fi from now on yeah whole show they had a rootkit on their on show they had a rootkit on their on show they had a rootkit on their on theou yeah I became friends with the theou yeah I became friends with the theou yeah I became friends with the manager and I had to go and get the root manager and I had to go and get the root manager and I had to go and get the root kick off the router because it you kick off the router because it you kick off the router because it you helped him yeah it was because it's my helped him yeah it was because it's my helped him yeah it was because it's my favorite Chipotle I to use that Wi-Fi favorite Chipotle I to use that Wi-Fi favorite Chipotle I to use that Wi-Fi that Wii it's as much it's a public that Wii it's as much it's a public that Wii it's as much it's a public service right uh and what was it was service right uh and what was it was service right uh and what was it was hijacking DNS yeah yeah yeah sending

hijacking DNS yeah yeah yeah sending hijacking DNS yeah yeah yeah sending people to bad sites and and I mean I'm people to bad sites and and I mean I'm people to bad sites and and I mean I'm the kind of guy also can roll with that the kind of guy also can roll with that the kind of guy also can roll with that too I think we ended up talk we end too I think we ended up talk we end too I think we ended up talk we end talking about all kinds of exploits talking about all kinds of exploits talking about all kinds of exploits going on I'm impressed you pulled the going on I'm impressed you pulled the going on I'm impressed you pulled the audio that's that's a Next Level you audio that's that's a Next Level you audio that's that's a Next Level you know me I'm just Next Level man I have know me I'm just Next Level man I have know me I'm just Next Level man I have these all right so in episode 107 with these all right so in episode 107 with these all right so in episode 107 with you and Rory blle recorded April 2005 I you and Rory blle recorded April 2005 I you and Rory blle recorded April 2005 I asked you how many readers your blog asked you how many readers your blog asked you how many readers your blog which was computer in at the time had which was computer in at the time had which was computer in at the time had had and you said a over 10,000 B had and you said a over 10,000 B had and you said a over 10,000 B somewhere between 1,000 and 8,000 or C somewhere between 1,000 and 8,000 or C somewhere between 1,000 and 8,000 or C most of my traffic is most of my traffic is most of my traffic is Spam the answer was probably a but I'm Spam the answer was probably a but I'm Spam the answer was probably a but I'm going to say it's see here we go uh I I going to say it's see here we go uh I I going to say it's see here we go uh I I I I don't refer to them as readers I I I don't refer to them as readers I I I don't refer to them as readers I it's usually spam I I most of my tra spam oh remember Rory's Google weirdos spam oh remember Rory's Google weirdos oh God this so funny the funniest thing oh God this so funny the funniest thing oh God this so funny the funniest thing we ever did on Rock I'm Just Looking for we ever did on Rock I'm Just Looking for we ever did on Rock I'm Just Looking for the search strings that people found his the search strings that people found his the search strings that people found his site on cuz he talked about such random site on cuz he talked about such random site on cuz he talked about such random stuff right cooking with pig milk all right so I actually played this one all right so I actually played this one and asked Phil hack about this but in and asked Phil hack about this but in and asked Phil hack about this but in episode 458 with you and Phil hack episode 458 with you and Phil hack episode 458 with you and Phil hack recorded June 209 at NDC you talked recorded June 209 at NDC you talked recorded June 209 at NDC you talked about yours and Phil's NDC talk where about yours and Phil's NDC talk where about yours and Phil's NDC talk where you Scott Hanselman set up an aspnet you Scott Hanselman set up an aspnet you Scott Hanselman set up an aspnet website and Phil hacked into it by website and Phil hacked into it by website and Phil hacked into it by sending you a video by email that you sending you a video by email that you sending you a video by email that you clicked on what was the video of a a

clicked on what was the video of a a clicked on what was the video of a a hamster on a piano B Michael Jackson's hamster on a piano B Michael Jackson's hamster on a piano B Michael Jackson's autopsy or c autopsy or c autopsy or c a steamy scene from True Blood uh a steamy scene from True Blood uh a steamy scene from True Blood uh hopefully a cuz both of the other ones hopefully a cuz both of the other ones hopefully a cuz both of the other ones are problematic yeah here we go and then are problematic yeah here we go and then are problematic yeah here we go and then I got this email from my good buddy Phil I got this email from my good buddy Phil I got this email from my good buddy Phil hack that said check out the picture uh hack that said check out the picture uh hack that said check out the picture uh this this video rather of a hamster on a this this video rather of a hamster on a this this video rather of a hamster on a piano and who doesn't like seeing piano and who doesn't like seeing piano and who doesn't like seeing hamsters on pianos right I like H I like hamsters on pianos right I like H I like hamsters on pianos right I like H I like hamsters and I like Pian so I figured hamsters and I like Pian so I figured hamsters and I like Pian so I figured click those I great so I click on it and click those I great so I click on it and click those I great so I click on it and it takes me to his website which then it takes me to his website which then it takes me to his website which then generates a fake form post with generates a fake form post with generates a fake form post with JavaScript and then because I was JavaScript and then because I was JavaScript and then because I was already logged into my banking site he already logged into my banking site he already logged into my banking site he basically form posted over sideways to basically form posted over sideways to basically form posted over sideways to my site and then you started a transfer my site and then you started a transfer my site and then you started a transfer to take money away from me wow that and to take money away from me wow that and to take money away from me wow that and I talked to Phil about that that's a I talked to Phil about that that's a I talked to Phil about that that's a great talk I mean you know hacking live great talk I mean you know hacking live great talk I mean you know hacking live yeah you know legit yeah you know legit yeah you know legit legit okay so in episode 582 published legit okay so in episode 582 published legit okay so in episode 582 published in August 2010 we were talking about the in August 2010 we were talking about the in August 2010 we were talking about the web platform installer and Richard web platform installer and Richard web platform installer and Richard pointed out that there were a lot of pointed out that there were a lot of pointed out that there were a lot of apps you could install what was your apps you could install what was your apps you could install what was your reaction a there are more apps than you reaction a there are more apps than you reaction a there are more apps than you can shake a stick at sounds like you B can shake a stick at sounds like you B can shake a stick at sounds like you B so many apps it's ridiculous or c a so many apps it's ridiculous or c a so many apps it's ridiculous or c a metric ass load oh it'll be metric ass load oh it'll be metric ass load oh it'll be C you sure about that oh yeah okay here C you sure about that oh yeah okay here C you sure about that oh yeah okay here we go question well there's a ton of we go question well there's a ton of we go question well there's a ton of apps in here right I mean there's a apps in here right I mean there's a apps in here right I mean there's a whole e-commerce section of this there whole e-commerce section of this there whole e-commerce section of this there is a a metric ass

is a a metric ass is a a metric ass load it's term you use but you know when load it's term you use but you know when load it's term you use but you know when I was I was I was well at least they you use the metric well at least they you use the metric well at least they you use the metric measurements CU that way they divisible measurements CU that way they divisible measurements CU that way they divisible by you by you by you need but you know here's the thing those need but you know here's the thing those need but you know here's the thing those other two answers are other two answers are other two answers are legitimate very much something I would legitimate very much something I would legitimate very much something I would have said yeah so all right in episode have said yeah so all right in episode have said yeah so all right in episode 731 published January 2012 I read a 731 published January 2012 I read a 731 published January 2012 I read a tweet by one Matt Rock which read tweet by one Matt Rock which read tweet by one Matt Rock which read getting an IM from Scott Hanselman in an getting an IM from Scott Hanselman in an getting an IM from Scott Hanselman in an intro to Richard Campbell is like what a intro to Richard Campbell is like what a intro to Richard Campbell is like what a like my daughter getting the same from I like my daughter getting the same from I like my daughter getting the same from I Carly and Justin Carly and Justin Carly and Justin Bieber B like Bill Clinton getting a Bieber B like Bill Clinton getting a Bieber B like Bill Clinton getting a letter stating that he had won big Maxs letter stating that he had won big Maxs letter stating that he had won big Maxs for life or C like Lindsay Lohan for life or C like Lindsay Lohan for life or C like Lindsay Lohan accepting the Best Actress Academy Award accepting the Best Actress Academy Award accepting the Best Actress Academy Award for her role in the Lifetime movie Liz for her role in the Lifetime movie Liz for her role in the Lifetime movie Liz and Dick I don't know what B and C are and Dick I don't know what B and C are and Dick I don't know what B and C are so I'm going to say a oh that's good so I'm going to say a oh that's good so I'm going to say a oh that's good listen to this tweet from uh Matt Rock listen to this tweet from uh Matt Rock listen to this tweet from uh Matt Rock getting an IM from Scott Hanselman and getting an IM from Scott Hanselman and getting an IM from Scott Hanselman and an intro to Rich Campbell is like my an intro to Rich Campbell is like my an intro to Rich Campbell is like my daughter getting the same from I Carly daughter getting the same from I Carly daughter getting the same from I Carly and Justin Bieber I think I think you're and Justin Bieber I think I think you're and Justin Bieber I think I think you're Bieber I think Scott's Bieber to go with Bieber I think Scott's Bieber to go with Bieber I think Scott's Bieber to go with that prepared to be I very nice Richard that prepared to be I very nice Richard that prepared to be I very nice Richard pulls out exactly what his reaction was pulls out exactly what his reaction was pulls out exactly what his reaction was then I how you guys remember this stuff then I how you guys remember this stuff then I how you guys remember this stuff I don't remember what I had for lunch I don't remember what I had for lunch I don't remember what I had for lunch yesterday oh Richard remembers yesterday oh Richard remembers yesterday oh Richard remembers everything I don't remember anything my everything I don't remember anything my everything I don't remember anything my wife hates that she remembers random wife hates that she remembers random wife hates that she remembers random conversations on random Tuesday I don't conversations on random Tuesday I don't conversations on random Tuesday I don't know what day it is I'm I'm wonder why know what day it is I'm I'm wonder why know what day it is I'm I'm wonder why I'm so happy and chill cuz I don't

I'm so happy and chill cuz I don't I'm so happy and chill cuz I don't remember any of this stuff nothing to remember any of this stuff nothing to remember any of this stuff nothing to worry about nothing's happened worry about nothing's happened worry about nothing's happened uh in episode 800 with you and Rob uh in episode 800 with you and Rob uh in episode 800 with you and Rob connory published September 2012 you connory published September 2012 you connory published September 2012 you told us of a place you like to go to told us of a place you like to go to told us of a place you like to go to work and watch people was it a Starbucks work and watch people was it a Starbucks work and watch people was it a Starbucks B McDonald's or C the Mula County B McDonald's or C the Mula County B McDonald's or C the Mula County Library what was the context so you told Library what was the context so you told Library what was the context so you told us of a place you like to go to work and us of a place you like to go to work and us of a place you like to go to work and watch people was it Starbucks McDonald's watch people was it Starbucks McDonald's watch people was it Starbucks McDonald's or the mtima county library County or the mtima county library County or the mtima county library County Library what year is this 2012 2012 Library what year is this 2012 2012 Library what year is this 2012 2012 McDonald's really okay malma County McDonald's really okay malma County McDonald's really okay malma County Library is a deep cut but I didn't I Library is a deep cut but I didn't I Library is a deep cut but I didn't I don't live in Mal County okay let me don't live in Mal County okay let me don't live in Mal County okay let me just come out and say it I'll just just come out and say it I'll just just come out and say it I'll just confess I was at McDonald's earlier confess I was at McDonald's earlier confess I was at McDonald's earlier today good wi got MC Diabetes Meal they today good wi got MC Diabetes Meal they today good wi got MC Diabetes Meal they hang on now they have there are there's hang on now they have there are there's hang on now they have there are there's free Wi-Fi and there are things you can free Wi-Fi and there are things you can free Wi-Fi and there are things you can buy at McDonald's that are not bad there buy at McDonald's that are not bad there buy at McDonald's that are not bad there you go you got it right okay so now you go you got it right okay so now you go you got it right okay so now let's move on to episode eight I'm let's move on to episode eight I'm let's move on to episode eight I'm sweeping this you are killing totally sweeping this you are killing totally sweeping this you are killing totally killing it oh my goodness in episode 85 killing it oh my goodness in episode 85 killing it oh my goodness in episode 85 with you and Chris cells which we with you and Chris cells which we with you and Chris cells which we recorded on the 2012 road trip right and recorded on the 2012 road trip right and recorded on the 2012 road trip right and published in September of that year we published in September of that year we published in September of that year we totally lost control of that show at one totally lost control of that show at one totally lost control of that show at one point you just went off but you were point you just went off but you were point you just went off but you were speaking of how people who post comments speaking of how people who post comments speaking of how people who post comments on your blog are mean and that had made on your blog are mean and that had made on your blog are mean and that had made you afraid to post anything at all and you afraid to post anything at all and you afraid to post anything at all and Richard asked you why you allow Richard asked you why you allow Richard asked you why you allow anonimous comments at all and your anonimous comments at all and your anonimous comments at all and your answer was a I believe in free hey you

answer was a I believe in free hey you answer was a I believe in free hey you can't Google this fre what this your can't Google this fre what this your can't Google this fre what this your answer was I believe in a I believe in answer was I believe in a I believe in answer was I believe in a I believe in free speech even if it hurts my feelings free speech even if it hurts my feelings free speech even if it hurts my feelings this is why you allow Anonymous comments this is why you allow Anonymous comments this is why you allow Anonymous comments on your blog in 2012 yeah B because on your blog in 2012 yeah B because on your blog in 2012 yeah B because karma I mean mean commenters have to karma I mean mean commenters have to karma I mean mean commenters have to sleep at night too or C because I don't sleep at night too or C because I don't sleep at night too or C because I don't know how to make oath work oh know how to make oath work oh know how to make oath work oh man probably all of man probably all of man probably all of those um but I'm going to go with C okay those um but I'm going to go with C okay those um but I'm going to go with C okay here's the answer well the question is here's the answer well the question is here's the answer well the question is why are you allowing Anonymous comments why are you allowing Anonymous comments why are you allowing Anonymous comments at at at all because I don't know how to make all because I don't know how to make all because I don't know how to make ooth work I work I mean Scott nobody does CU open idea is a mean Scott nobody does CU open idea is a mean Scott nobody does CU open idea is a huge fail no but um you got to give me huge fail no but um you got to give me huge fail no but um you got to give me credit for at least knowing credit for at least knowing credit for at least knowing myself pause when before you answer myself pause when before you answer myself pause when before you answer because cuz I don't know how to make because cuz I don't know how to make because cuz I don't know how to make well because the pause there is do I be well because the pause there is do I be well because the pause there is do I be honest or do I not be honest do I say honest or do I not be honest do I say honest or do I not be honest do I say something funny oh wait I can do both something funny oh wait I can do both something funny oh wait I can do both try to say something honest yeah oh my try to say something honest yeah oh my try to say something honest yeah oh my goodness gracious to uh okay so the last goodness gracious to uh okay so the last goodness gracious to uh okay so the last one here in episode one here in episode one here in episode 1131 open source panel discussion at net 1131 open source panel discussion at net 1131 open source panel discussion at net Fringe published in April 2015 you Fringe published in April 2015 you Fringe published in April 2015 you called comments by James Newton quote called comments by James Newton quote called comments by James Newton quote either elitist or mean after he said one either elitist or mean after he said one either elitist or mean after he said one of the following statements about Visual of the following statements about Visual of the following statements about Visual Studio H a Linux is the only operating Studio H a Linux is the only operating Studio H a Linux is the only operating system I will use for development B it system I will use for development B it system I will use for development B it makes you want to kill yourself every makes you want to kill yourself every makes you want to kill yourself every time you open it or c it doesn't suck

time you open it or c it doesn't suck time you open it or c it doesn't suck anymore what is this what I said or what anymore what is this what I said or what anymore what is this what I said or what he said no what he said he said B and I he said no what he said he said B and I he said no what he said he said B and I I called him out on it and he you can I called him out on it and he you can I called him out on it and he you can now run this thing on Linux you can now now run this thing on Linux you can now now run this thing on Linux you can now uh you can now build it with tools that uh you can now build it with tools that uh you can now build it with tools that don't make you want to kill yourself don't make you want to kill yourself don't make you want to kill yourself every time you open them you can see why every time you open them you can see why every time you open them you can see why do statements like that helpful what it do statements like that helpful what it do statements like that helpful what it depends seriously like I hear what depends seriously like I hear what depends seriously like I hear what you're saying because I feel like 75% of you're saying because I feel like 75% of you're saying because I feel like 75% of what you're saying I agree with and then what you're saying I agree with and then what you're saying I agree with and then 25% is either elitist or mean boy that 25% is either elitist or mean boy that 25% is either elitist or mean boy that was a tense moment really it was a good was a tense moment really it was a good was a tense moment really it was a good one the problem was that he's he's he's one the problem was that he's he's he's one the problem was that he's he's he's he has valid feedback sure and if you he has valid feedback sure and if you he has valid feedback sure and if you have good feedback that's great put it have good feedback that's great put it have good feedback that's great put it in an envelope and mail it but if the in an envelope and mail it but if the in an envelope and mail it but if the envelope is a rock and you tape the envelope is a rock and you tape the envelope is a rock and you tape the message to the Rock and throw it through message to the Rock and throw it through message to the Rock and throw it through my window I'm probably not going to read my window I'm probably not going to read my window I'm probably not going to read the note yeah you're less inclined to uh the note yeah you're less inclined to uh the note yeah you're less inclined to uh go along with the other 75 I mean I I go along with the other 75 I mean I I go along with the other 75 I mean I I then got accused of being mean because I then got accused of being mean because I then got accused of being mean because I cuz elitist was a statement or whatever cuz elitist was a statement or whatever cuz elitist was a statement or whatever but you know dude that was not necessary but you know dude that was not necessary but you know dude that was not necessary I also remember talking to you on the pH I also remember talking to you on the pH I also remember talking to you on the pH yeah but you called me as I was driving yeah but you called me as I was driving yeah but you called me as I was driving back from that show from as I had an 8 back from that show from as I had an 8 back from that show from as I had an 8 hour drive I was driving back from hour drive I was driving back from hour drive I was driving back from Portland and we I think we talked for Portland and we I think we talked for Portland and we I think we talked for three hours just and then at the end we three hours just and then at the end we three hours just and then at the end we always go we should have recorded this always go we should have recorded this always go we should have recorded this every time I don't think that one every time I don't think that one every time I don't think that one actually that one was pretty personal actually that one was pretty personal actually that one was pretty personal you just you don't you are not normally you just you don't you are not normally you just you don't you are not normally a confrontational person you want to you a confrontational person you want to you a confrontational person you want to you want to tell the truth and I and I want to tell the truth and I and I want to tell the truth and I and I appreciate when you are um you know it's appreciate when you are um you know it's appreciate when you are um you know it's not like you do it for fun mhm I thought not like you do it for fun mhm I thought not like you do it for fun mhm I thought it was a very good moment I think most

it was a very good moment I think most it was a very good moment I think most people thought it was a very good moment people thought it was a very good moment people thought it was a very good moment but I know I know I've known you long but I know I know I've known you long but I know I know I've known you long enough to know that isn't an easy thing enough to know that isn't an easy thing enough to know that isn't an easy thing for you to do either right and we end up for you to do either right and we end up for you to do either right and we end up talking for quite a while about it talking for quite a while about it talking for quite a while about it afterwards well yeah I mean you don't afterwards well yeah I mean you don't afterwards well yeah I mean you don't want to be unnecessarily confrontational want to be unnecessarily confrontational want to be unnecessarily confrontational no like but I also don't want to be no like but I also don't want to be no like but I also don't want to be dismissive of people's feelings so like dismissive of people's feelings so like dismissive of people's feelings so like you know I I do have a certain amount of you know I I do have a certain amount of you know I I do have a certain amount of like yeah it's not that deep man for like yeah it's not that deep man for like yeah it's not that deep man for some people it is that deep yeah but uh some people it is that deep yeah but uh some people it is that deep yeah but uh you know you should consider I wrote a you know you should consider I wrote a you know you should consider I wrote a blog post called software and saving blog post called software and saving blog post called software and saving babies nice nice you know like is it babies nice nice you know like is it babies nice nice you know like is it software is it saving babies or is it software is it saving babies or is it software is it saving babies or is it literally baby saving software like you literally baby saving software like you literally baby saving software like you got to go and think about all the got to go and think about all the got to go and think about all the different things you're working on and different things you're working on and different things you're working on and then compare it to whether or not we're then compare it to whether or not we're then compare it to whether or not we're saving babies yeah right maybe the wrong saving babies yeah right maybe the wrong saving babies yeah right maybe the wrong ad gets served because you're working on ad gets served because you're working on ad gets served because you're working on ad serving software right or maybe ad serving software right or maybe ad serving software right or maybe you're working on a video game and the you're working on a video game and the you're working on a video game and the guy doesn't jump at the right time but guy doesn't jump at the right time but guy doesn't jump at the right time but like are you saving babies so it feels like are you saving babies so it feels like are you saving babies so it feels like it's a huge bug or it's a huge like it's a huge bug or it's a huge like it's a huge bug or it's a huge problem but it's probably not that big problem but it's probably not that big problem but it's probably not that big of a deal take a breath it's going to be of a deal take a breath it's going to be of a deal take a breath it's going to be okay let's work the problem so I'm I'm okay let's work the problem so I'm I'm okay let's work the problem so I'm I'm very much like the older I get the more very much like the older I get the more very much like the older I get the more like let's just chill out let's solve like let's just chill out let's solve like let's just chill out let's solve the problem it's going to be okay it's the problem it's going to be okay it's the problem it's going to be okay it's going to be okay hope so that's naive going to be okay hope so that's naive going to be okay hope so that's naive perhaps but also a little bit optimistic perhaps but also a little bit optimistic perhaps but also a little bit optimistic yeah before we go let's talk a little yeah before we go let's talk a little yeah before we go let's talk a little bit more about these mean people who bit more about these mean people who bit more about these mean people who we've been referencing not necessarily we've been referencing not necessarily we've been referencing not necessarily James but um there are people out there James but um there are people out there James but um there are people out there that love to throw darts at uh people that love to throw darts at uh people that love to throw darts at uh people with power maybe people with celebrity with power maybe people with celebrity with power maybe people with celebrity as a means of furthering themselves or as a means of furthering themselves or as a means of furthering themselves or getting noticed anyway I noticed this in getting noticed anyway I noticed this in getting noticed anyway I noticed this in the very early days of net rocks I would

the very early days of net rocks I would the very early days of net rocks I would get people who couldn't just come out get people who couldn't just come out get people who couldn't just come out and say hey I would like to be a guest and say hey I would like to be a guest and say hey I would like to be a guest on your show here's what I have to say on your show here's what I have to say on your show here's what I have to say they had to instead throw rocks in you they had to instead throw rocks in you they had to instead throw rocks in you know oh mean the classic was the angry know oh mean the classic was the angry know oh mean the classic was the angry blog post referencing a show right and blog post referencing a show right and blog post referencing a show right and and then we'd be people would come to us and then we'd be people would come to us and then we'd be people would come to us you got to respond to that I'm like no you got to respond to that I'm like no you got to respond to that I'm like no no really don't don't really want to do no really don't don't really want to do no really don't don't really want to do that doesn't does it make the I'm only that doesn't does it make the I'm only that doesn't does it make the I'm only going to do something that makes the going to do something that makes the going to do something that makes the situation better there was a one of situation better there was a one of situation better there was a one of these people who was very mean we these people who was very mean we these people who was very mean we actually ended up engaging them and they actually ended up engaging them and they actually ended up engaging them and they ended up ruining their ended up ruining their ended up ruining their career and uh that was just the way it career and uh that was just the way it career and uh that was just the way it went but you know it's sort of I'm not went but you know it's sort of I'm not went but you know it's sort of I'm not going to say who it is but that sort of going to say who it is but that sort of going to say who it is but that sort of speaks to the karma of the situation speaks to the karma of the situation speaks to the karma of the situation that uh you never know who you're that uh you never know who you're that uh you never know who you're talking to or talking about so be real talking to or talking about so be real talking to or talking about so be real and don't be a jerk well I don't want and don't be a jerk well I don't want and don't be a jerk well I don't want to I have no problem with with James I to I have no problem with with James I to I have no problem with with James I had a problem only with that sentence had a problem only with that sentence had a problem only with that sentence yeah so I want to make sure if James is yeah so I want to make sure if James is yeah so I want to make sure if James is listening to this yeah the the the point listening to this yeah the the the point listening to this yeah the the the point was 75% valid yeah um and and and I have was 75% valid yeah um and and and I have was 75% valid yeah um and and and I have no problem with him um so yeah I don't no problem with him um so yeah I don't no problem with him um so yeah I don't like it makes me uncomfortable that like it makes me uncomfortable that like it makes me uncomfortable that we're talking about people at all on on we're talking about people at all on on we're talking about people at all on on a podcast um but I do believe in in a podcast um but I do believe in in a podcast um but I do believe in in karma and I do believe that if you're karma and I do believe that if you're karma and I do believe that if you're kind consistently for decades then good kind consistently for decades then good kind consistently for decades then good things will happen yeah uh but it gets things will happen yeah uh but it gets things will happen yeah uh but it gets back to the very beginning of the show back to the very beginning of the show back to the very beginning of the show the difference between stop energy and the difference between stop energy and the difference between stop energy and and yes and energy yeah uh if you're a and yes and energy yeah uh if you're a and yes and energy yeah uh if you're a hater for a long time I'm convinced that

hater for a long time I'm convinced that hater for a long time I'm convinced that it's going to cause high blood pressure it's going to cause high blood pressure it's going to cause high blood pressure and cholesterol and hard heart disease and cholesterol and hard heart disease and cholesterol and hard heart disease yeah and uh you know PE it would just it yeah and uh you know PE it would just it yeah and uh you know PE it would just it would be very very hard to live a 100e would be very very hard to live a 100e would be very very hard to live a 100e plus life and everything sucks yeah yeah plus life and everything sucks yeah yeah plus life and everything sucks yeah yeah it's tough way to be try to be positive it's tough way to be try to be positive it's tough way to be try to be positive and try to be constructive your feedback and try to be constructive your feedback and try to be constructive your feedback list the great thing about pessimism is list the great thing about pessimism is list the great thing about pessimism is you're usually right occasionally you're usually right occasionally you're usually right occasionally pleasantly surprised no I my my uh I'm a Perpetual surprised no I my my uh I'm a Perpetual uh Optimist yeah good yeah I know that I uh Optimist yeah good yeah I know that I uh Optimist yeah good yeah I know that I know that much about you and and as know that much about you and and as know that much about you and and as funny as I may be at this moment I am funny as I may be at this moment I am funny as I may be at this moment I am too and uh as I said Integrity is your too and uh as I said Integrity is your too and uh as I said Integrity is your middle name and uh everybody should middle name and uh everybody should middle name and uh everybody should realize realize realize that taco is that silly quiz you just that taco is that silly quiz you just that taco is that silly quiz you just did a proof of the Integrity absolutely did a proof of the Integrity absolutely did a proof of the Integrity absolutely you I'm impressed with myself cuz I was you I'm impressed with myself cuz I was you I'm impressed with myself cuz I was literally I had no idea you didn't tell literally I had no idea you didn't tell literally I had no idea you didn't tell me there was going to be a freaking quiz me there was going to be a freaking quiz me there was going to be a freaking quiz it was a surprise you didn't tell me it it was a surprise you didn't tell me it it was a surprise you didn't tell me it was going to be a 20 years of was going to be a 20 years of was going to be a 20 years of of and you have recordings like you've of and you have recordings like you've of and you have recordings like you've got tapes Franklin brought got tapes Franklin brought got tapes Franklin brought receipts uh but at least I I am nothing receipts uh but at least I I am nothing receipts uh but at least I I am nothing if not consistent is what I learned from if not consistent is what I learned from if not consistent is what I learned from that absolutely true and you still are that absolutely true and you still are that absolutely true and you still are believe you're not thanks for doing this believe you're not thanks for doing this believe you're not thanks for doing this 1900 with us man yeah no absolutely my 1900 with us man yeah no absolutely my 1900 with us man yeah no absolutely my pleasure thank you great be sure to pleasure thank you great be sure to pleasure thank you great be sure to listen to Hansel minutes listen to Hansel minutes listen to Hansel minutes on.com yeah yeah that's right because on.com yeah yeah that's right because on.com yeah yeah that's right because this is also a Hansel minutes isn't it this is also a Hansel minutes isn't it this is also a Hansel minutes isn't it uh yeah we'll turn around we'll make uh yeah we'll turn around we'll make uh yeah we'll turn around we'll make this hands minutes as well that'll be this hands minutes as well that'll be this hands minutes as well that'll be fantastic yeah all right we'll see you fantastic yeah all right we'll see you fantastic yeah all right we'll see you next time on net rocks this has been next time on net rocks this has been next time on net rocks this has been another episode of Handel minutes and we another episode of Handel minutes and we another episode of Handel minutes and we will see you again next week and then will see you again next week and then will see you again next week and then this is front Wier where you go Handel

this is front Wier where you go Handel this is front Wier where you go Handel minutes may cause abdominal minutes may cause abdominal minutes may cause abdominal distension consult your doctor before distension consult your doctor before distension consult your doctor before consuming it oh it oh [Music]