Managing secrets with Onboardbase and Dante Lex

hey friends you know here at Hansel hey friends you know here at Hansel minutes we really appreciate our minutes we really appreciate our minutes we really appreciate our sponsors and I'm here with JD tras CEO sponsors and I'm here with JD tras CEO sponsors and I'm here with JD tras CEO of ray gun how's it going sir it's going of ray gun how's it going sir it's going of ray gun how's it going sir it's going very well Scott how are you very well I very well Scott how are you very well I very well Scott how are you very well I want to learn about now that uh zamon want to learn about now that uh zamon want to learn about now that uh zamon became Maui and App Center Microsoft App became Maui and App Center Microsoft App became Maui and App Center Microsoft App Center is not a thing anymore where are Center is not a thing anymore where are Center is not a thing anymore where are people going it's a great question so people going it's a great question so people going it's a great question so we've long time been supporters of we've long time been supporters of we've long time been supporters of zamarin since very early on we're zamarin since very early on we're zamarin since very early on we're helping a lot of customers migrate onto helping a lot of customers migrate onto helping a lot of customers migrate onto Maui with ray gun and we also provide Maui with ray gun and we also provide Maui with ray gun and we also provide the ability for folks to see all of the the ability for folks to see all of the the ability for folks to see all of the Diagnostics about their mobile Diagnostics about their mobile Diagnostics about their mobile application within ray gun so it's a application within ray gun so it's a application within ray gun so it's a great replacement for a lot of what great replacement for a lot of what great replacement for a lot of what people were using App Center for very people were using App Center for very people were using App Center for very cool so ray gun is a place that you can cool so ray gun is a place that you can cool so ray gun is a place that you can go if you were an app center user you go if you were an app center user you go if you were an app center user you can check out Ray gun.com for a 14-day can check out Ray gun.com for a 14-day can check out Ray gun.com for a 14-day free trial and use the code Hanselman free trial and use the code Hanselman free trial and use the code Hanselman for half price monitoring for your first for half price monitoring for your first for half price monitoring for your first month month month [Music] hi I'm Scott Hanselman this is another hi I'm Scott Hanselman this is another episode of Hansel minutes today I'm episode of Hansel minutes today I'm episode of Hansel minutes today I'm chatting with Dante Lex the CEO of chatting with Dante Lex the CEO of chatting with Dante Lex the CEO of onboard base we're going to chat about onboard base we're going to chat about onboard base we're going to chat about their new product secure log how's it their new product secure log how's it their new product secure log how's it going sir going well how's your day going sir going well how's your day going sir going well how's your day going uh very well it's always fun to going uh very well it's always fun to going uh very well it's always fun to talk to people on the hansome minutes talk to people on the hansome minutes talk to people on the hansome minutes podcast and you know one of the things podcast and you know one of the things podcast and you know one of the things that I thought was interesting about the that I thought was interesting about the that I thought was interesting about the way that you are talking about your way that you are talking about your way that you are talking about your products if you go to onboard base you products if you go to onboard base you products if you go to onboard base you come out right and say it I'm going to come out right and say it I'm going to come out right and say it I'm going to read the homepage of your website if read the homepage of your website if read the homepage of your website if Hashi Cor Vault was simpler Priced Right

Hashi Cor Vault was simpler Priced Right Hashi Cor Vault was simpler Priced Right and just worked that's very bold like and just worked that's very bold like and just worked that's very bold like why come right out and say it that why come right out and say it that why come right out and say it that you're not a fan of Hashi Corp Vault so you're not a fan of Hashi Corp Vault so you're not a fan of Hashi Corp Vault so much so that you made your own thing so much so that you made your own thing so much so that you made your own thing so um I've used Hashi cop extensively and um I've used Hashi cop extensively and um I've used Hashi cop extensively and uh I actually love the product it's a uh I actually love the product it's a uh I actually love the product it's a really good product but while using it really good product but while using it really good product but while using it it's felt like it was built for uh it's felt like it was built for uh it's felt like it was built for uh Enterprise teams who are very late in Enterprise teams who are very late in Enterprise teams who are very late in the stage or a team of security the stage or a team of security the stage or a team of security Engineers or you need to hire a bunch of Engineers or you need to hire a bunch of Engineers or you need to hire a bunch of security Engineers to set up right and I security Engineers to set up right and I security Engineers to set up right and I absolutely wanted an alternative to absolutely wanted an alternative to absolutely wanted an alternative to hasik but it's uh it's it's so hasik but it's uh it's it's so hasik but it's uh it's it's so complicated to use that sometimes you complicated to use that sometimes you complicated to use that sometimes you just either shy away from it or just just either shy away from it or just just either shy away from it or just keep managing Secrets locally and so keep managing Secrets locally and so keep managing Secrets locally and so right off the bat we knew that what we right off the bat we knew that what we right off the bat we knew that what we wanted to do was be a better product or wanted to do was be a better product or wanted to do was be a better product or be a better version than hashiko VA be a better version than hashiko VA be a better version than hashiko VA right remove all the noise Al together right remove all the noise Al together right remove all the noise Al together and just give you exactly what what you and just give you exactly what what you and just give you exactly what what you not want at point in time and so this not want at point in time and so this not want at point in time and so this particular positioning has actually particular positioning has actually particular positioning has actually helped us a lot with gaining a whole lot helped us a lot with gaining a whole lot helped us a lot with gaining a whole lot of customers because people who are of customers because people who are of customers because people who are looking for a secret management looking for a secret management looking for a secret management alternative already know about hash alternative already know about hash alternative already know about hash vaults or have used them in the past vaults or have used them in the past vaults or have used them in the past don't like them and we like okay what's don't like them and we like okay what's don't like them and we like okay what's the best way to position us right you're the best way to position us right you're the best way to position us right you're looking for a simple alternative for ash looking for a simple alternative for ash looking for a simple alternative for ash V that's what we are to begin V that's what we are to begin V that's what we are to begin with okay that makes sense so you're with okay that makes sense so you're with okay that makes sense so you're using the familiarity using the familiarity using the familiarity that the community has withi Corp Vault

that the community has withi Corp Vault that the community has withi Corp Vault and then calling out immediately these and then calling out immediately these and then calling out immediately these are things we do better yeah absolutely are things we do better yeah absolutely are things we do better yeah absolutely and it's has worked like magic because and it's has worked like magic because and it's has worked like magic because most of the the customers that come to most of the the customers that come to most of the the customers that come to us we don't have to explain a whole lot us we don't have to explain a whole lot us we don't have to explain a whole lot of things to them they already know what of things to them they already know what of things to them they already know what they're looking for and they almost want they're looking for and they almost want they're looking for and they almost want to get started to get started to get started immediately interesting it's it's a it's immediately interesting it's it's a it's immediately interesting it's it's a it's a it's a bold marketing strategy I'm a it's a bold marketing strategy I'm a it's a bold marketing strategy I'm curious if anyone from Hashi Corp or curious if anyone from Hashi Corp or curious if anyone from Hashi Corp or anyone has been turned off by that uh no anyone has been turned off by that uh no anyone has been turned off by that uh no uh uh uh they've not reached out to us though we they've not reached out to us though we they've not reached out to us though we have seen some accounts from ashik up have seen some accounts from ashik up have seen some accounts from ashik up crat accounts on on board base probably crat accounts on on board base probably crat accounts on on board base probably just testing it out uh just but nothing just testing it out uh just but nothing just testing it out uh just but nothing else has actually happened within that else has actually happened within that else has actually happened within that space so it's competitive and I believe space so it's competitive and I believe space so it's competitive and I believe they are doing really well to really be they are doing really well to really be they are doing really well to really be bothered yeah you know uh I had a a bothered yeah you know uh I had a a bothered yeah you know uh I had a a startup founder on last week uh or I'm startup founder on last week uh or I'm startup founder on last week uh or I'm not sure depending on when the shows not sure depending on when the shows not sure depending on when the shows come out and she uh is making a a brand come out and she uh is making a a brand come out and she uh is making a a brand new product but it's clearly entering a new product but it's clearly entering a new product but it's clearly entering a space where there's big players and one space where there's big players and one space where there's big players and one of the words that I used when I was of the words that I used when I was of the words that I used when I was describing her product was audacity and describing her product was audacity and describing her product was audacity and I think that really good Founders really I think that really good Founders really I think that really good Founders really good startups have audacity they have good startups have audacity they have good startups have audacity they have this sense of like you know I can do it this sense of like you know I can do it this sense of like you know I can do it better than that giant company over better than that giant company over better than that giant company over there and I was I asked her the same there and I was I asked her the same there and I was I asked her the same thing I'm G to ask you I like where does thing I'm G to ask you I like where does thing I'm G to ask you I like where does that come from and what does that feel that come from and what does that feel that come from and what does that feel like because I love that well uh it's uh like because I love that well uh it's uh like because I love that well uh it's uh one is one is one is passion uh and also you you felt the

passion uh and also you you felt the passion uh and also you you felt the pain so much that you wished that what pain so much that you wished that what pain so much that you wished that what you're doing existed in a different way you're doing existed in a different way you're doing existed in a different way right um you've probably used those right um you've probably used those right um you've probably used those other alternative extensively but other alternative extensively but other alternative extensively but nothing was felt like was built for you nothing was felt like was built for you nothing was felt like was built for you right nothing felt like it was buil for right nothing felt like it was buil for right nothing felt like it was buil for you and you're like you know what why you and you're like you know what why you and you're like you know what why can't I build something that just fits can't I build something that just fits can't I build something that just fits my needs not something someone imagin my needs not something someone imagin my needs not something someone imagin is a solution for me and so when you go is a solution for me and so when you go is a solution for me and so when you go off that bad building in that sense it off that bad building in that sense it off that bad building in that sense it gives you the pride sense of Pride and gives you the pride sense of Pride and gives you the pride sense of Pride and the audacity to say okay yeah I've built the audacity to say okay yeah I've built the audacity to say okay yeah I've built something way better than the something way better than the something way better than the alternative out there and this was built alternative out there and this was built alternative out there and this was built with me in mind right I like that and in with me in mind right I like that and in with me in mind right I like that and in this case with me in mind you're the CEO this case with me in mind you're the CEO this case with me in mind you're the CEO you are basically counting on your you are basically counting on your you are basically counting on your expertise in the space yes so that the expertise in the space yes so that the expertise in the space yes so that the other people are also you like you had other people are also you like you had other people are also you like you had experience in this space before putting experience in this space before putting experience in this space before putting Secrets managements encryption Secrets managements encryption Secrets managements encryption Management Systems in place You' used Management Systems in place You' used Management Systems in place You' used Hashi Corp extensively yeah I've used Hashi Corp extensively yeah I've used Hashi Corp extensively yeah I've used Hashi cop extensively I've had to deal Hashi cop extensively I've had to deal Hashi cop extensively I've had to deal with a data brid as one of the companies with a data brid as one of the companies with a data brid as one of the companies I've worked at oh I've had to manage uh I've worked at oh I've had to manage uh I've worked at oh I've had to manage uh secrets on notion on Google Docs just oh secrets on notion on Google Docs just oh secrets on notion on Google Docs just oh god oh no pretty interesting is it uh so god oh no pretty interesting is it uh so god oh no pretty interesting is it uh so I've found several ways to manage it in I've found several ways to manage it in I've found several ways to manage it in the past and um nothing quite was quite the past and um nothing quite was quite the past and um nothing quite was quite right right and the closest I could get

right right and the closest I could get right right and the closest I could get was hashiko VA and even that was hashiko VA and even that was hashiko VA and even that was was a was was a was was a hustle okay so Hashi Corp vault is hustle okay so Hashi Corp vault is hustle okay so Hashi Corp vault is identity based secrets and encryption identity based secrets and encryption identity based secrets and encryption management system onboard based secure management system onboard based secure management system onboard based secure log secure log by onboard based is log secure log by onboard based is log secure log by onboard based is similar this is a problem that everyone similar this is a problem that everyone similar this is a problem that everyone has I mean you just called out that you has I mean you just called out that you has I mean you just called out that you worked at a company that kept secrets in worked at a company that kept secrets in worked at a company that kept secrets in notion like it's like putting your notion like it's like putting your notion like it's like putting your password in one one password in one one password in one one um why do people do this so wrong why um why do people do this so wrong why um why do people do this so wrong why would anyone think a text file called would anyone think a text file called would anyone think a text file called password. text was a Secrets management password. text was a Secrets management password. text was a Secrets management solution and why do they start wrong solution and why do they start wrong solution and why do they start wrong first reason is convenience right first reason is convenience right first reason is convenience right convenience is the mother of all evil convenience is the mother of all evil convenience is the mother of all evil right because uh it's so convenient to right because uh it's so convenient to right because uh it's so convenient to share these things we in know a text share these things we in know a text share these things we in know a text file or keep them in a Note file uh it file or keep them in a Note file uh it file or keep them in a Note file uh it feels right like it's right within your feels right like it's right within your feels right like it's right within your wall space so you just keep constantly wall space so you just keep constantly wall space so you just keep constantly doing the things without the doing the things without the doing the things without the consequences that are going to obviously consequences that are going to obviously consequences that are going to obviously come it's it's a data brid just waiting come it's it's a data brid just waiting come it's it's a data brid just waiting to happen it's just waiting right it may to happen it's just waiting right it may to happen it's just waiting right it may never happen for but most people never happen for but most people never happen for but most people especially most companies they tend to especially most companies they tend to especially most companies they tend to experience the data reges and um people experience the data reges and um people experience the data reges and um people never change this habit over time they never change this habit over time they never change this habit over time they just keep putting it in text files just keep putting it in text files just keep putting it in text files sharing it on slack doing it on notion sharing it on slack doing it on notion sharing it on slack doing it on notion and you find ways to solve your own and you find ways to solve your own and you find ways to solve your own problem even if the tools does not exist problem even if the tools does not exist problem even if the tools does not exist right right right and it's uh it's a pandemic how I how I and it's uh it's a pandemic how I how I and it's uh it's a pandemic how I how I say this it's a way of thinking it's a

say this it's a way of thinking it's a say this it's a way of thinking it's a lifestyle for people to do these things lifestyle for people to do these things lifestyle for people to do these things this way right I it is a pandemic though this way right I it is a pandemic though this way right I it is a pandemic though it's a virus that has caught everyone it's a virus that has caught everyone it's a virus that has caught everyone and they're all just storing their and they're all just storing their and they're all just storing their passwords wrong and now we have to get passwords wrong and now we have to get passwords wrong and now we have to get them the Cure yeah and uh first you need them the Cure yeah and uh first you need them the Cure yeah and uh first you need to also get them to care about it to also get them to care about it to also get them to care about it because a lot of people don't care you because a lot of people don't care you because a lot of people don't care you see people see people see people assume developers are secure by default assume developers are secure by default assume developers are secure by default that is a wrong notion in fact that is a wrong notion in fact that is a wrong notion in fact developers are far from being secure by developers are far from being secure by developers are far from being secure by default they just mostly want to go default they just mostly want to go default they just mostly want to go about their creativity and do things about their creativity and do things about their creativity and do things that they are paid to do or they want to that they are paid to do or they want to that they are paid to do or they want to do right the security is more at the do right the security is more at the do right the security is more at the back of their mind than anything else back of their mind than anything else back of their mind than anything else right and so to bring the solution to right and so to bring the solution to right and so to bring the solution to them you need to build something that them you need to build something that them you need to build something that fits them particularly right not uh fits them particularly right not uh fits them particularly right not uh something that they need to go through something that they need to go through something that they need to go through three different people just to use the three different people just to use the three different people just to use the solution and so building onboard base I solution and so building onboard base I solution and so building onboard base I buil particularly for developers first buil particularly for developers first buil particularly for developers first because I'm a developer myself I needed because I'm a developer myself I needed because I'm a developer myself I needed to solve that itch I needed to make sure to solve that itch I needed to make sure to solve that itch I needed to make sure that it was as convenient as using slack that it was as convenient as using slack that it was as convenient as using slack to share secrets for me okay so that's to share secrets for me okay so that's to share secrets for me okay so that's really interesting because the whole really interesting because the whole really interesting because the whole concept of a let's just use password concept of a let's just use password concept of a let's just use password managers as an example right like managers as an example right like managers as an example right like everyone's using one password or you everyone's using one password or you everyone's using one password or you know different tools like that we're know different tools like that we're know different tools like that we're slowly starting to normalize password slowly starting to normalize password slowly starting to normalize password managers for like Mom and Dad like yeah managers for like Mom and Dad like yeah managers for like Mom and Dad like yeah iOS 18 added a new app called password iOS 18 added a new app called password iOS 18 added a new app called password passwords in an attempt to get everyone passwords in an attempt to get everyone passwords in an attempt to get everyone to start putting their unique passwords to start putting their unique passwords to start putting their unique passwords in a password manager and a good one in a password manager and a good one in a password manager and a good one doesn't show you your password yeah and

doesn't show you your password yeah and doesn't show you your password yeah and you you talk about this in onboard base you you talk about this in onboard base you you talk about this in onboard base if you go to app. onboard base.com you if you go to app. onboard base.com you if you go to app. onboard base.com you actually call it the zeron knowledge actually call it the zeron knowledge actually call it the zeron knowledge protocol you don't want like I don't protocol you don't want like I don't protocol you don't want like I don't even want to see the thing right I want even want to see the thing right I want even want to see the thing right I want to see asterisks I want to see stars so to see asterisks I want to see stars so to see asterisks I want to see stars so you know if Mom and Dad non-technical you know if Mom and Dad non-technical you know if Mom and Dad non-technical parent can go into the iOS 18 app hit parent can go into the iOS 18 app hit parent can go into the iOS 18 app hit copy or hit autofill copy or hit autofill copy or hit autofill even if they were kidnapped no one they even if they were kidnapped no one they even if they were kidnapped no one they could not be you know told to give up could not be you know told to give up could not be you know told to give up their passwords and you want to be the their passwords and you want to be the their passwords and you want to be the same thing in onboard base like you same thing in onboard base like you same thing in onboard base like you don't even want people to think about it don't even want people to think about it don't even want people to think about it however you want it to be easy to share however you want it to be easy to share however you want it to be easy to share so how do you have both you want so how do you have both you want so how do you have both you want convenience hey paste it into slack but convenience hey paste it into slack but convenience hey paste it into slack but also no one should ever see or know also no one should ever see or know also no one should ever see or know about a secret yeah so um it's uh it's about a secret yeah so um it's uh it's about a secret yeah so um it's uh it's the race to balance speed and security the race to balance speed and security the race to balance speed and security right so what we have done was you know right so what we have done was you know right so what we have done was you know what we've put this layers of controls what we've put this layers of controls what we've put this layers of controls into on board Bas that uh particular to into on board Bas that uh particular to into on board Bas that uh particular to how teams work so if you give an how teams work so if you give an how teams work so if you give an engineer say uh access to local engineer say uh access to local engineer say uh access to local development they won't even be able to development they won't even be able to development they won't even be able to see the secrets in local development but see the secrets in local development but see the secrets in local development but they will be able to work so Bey to they will be able to work so Bey to they will be able to work so Bey to actively inject those security real time actively inject those security real time actively inject those security real time directly where they working whether it's directly where they working whether it's directly where they working whether it's in their local machine or it's in their in their local machine or it's in their in their local machine or it's in their s so it's injected real time they don't s so it's injected real time they don't s so it's injected real time they don't need to think about it they could just need to think about it they could just need to think about it they could just actively work with it right because once actively work with it right because once actively work with it right because once they begin to be able to view those

they begin to be able to view those they begin to be able to view those Secrets then you almost cannot control Secrets then you almost cannot control Secrets then you almost cannot control what happens around how they share it what happens around how they share it what happens around how they share it right so we building several different right so we building several different right so we building several different layers of encryption into Umble base layers of encryption into Umble base layers of encryption into Umble base that makes it so easy for you not to that makes it so easy for you not to that makes it so easy for you not to want to share any Secret at all and if want to share any Secret at all and if want to share any Secret at all and if you choose or decide to share it we have you choose or decide to share it we have you choose or decide to share it we have something we call credential new that uh something we call credential new that uh something we call credential new that uh you put the key inside encrypts it and you put the key inside encrypts it and you put the key inside encrypts it and it just shares a link to the person it just shares a link to the person it just shares a link to the person right so that link is Where to view it right so that link is Where to view it right so that link is Where to view it once it viewed it's deleted after 2 once it viewed it's deleted after 2 once it viewed it's deleted after 2 minutes 3 minutes 5 minutes right so now minutes 3 minutes 5 minutes right so now minutes 3 minutes 5 minutes right so now if you're going to share something if you're going to share something if you're going to share something sensitive it's a conscious decision you sensitive it's a conscious decision you sensitive it's a conscious decision you have made not this that the solution have made not this that the solution have made not this that the solution doesn't exist for it doesn't exist for it doesn't exist for it MH hey friends as I spend the next MH hey friends as I spend the next MH hey friends as I spend the next couple of months learning more and more couple of months learning more and more couple of months learning more and more about AI in the middle of the show I'm about AI in the middle of the show I'm about AI in the middle of the show I'm going to pause for a second and I'm going to pause for a second and I'm going to pause for a second and I'm going to bring in lbert Van Dorne senior going to bring in lbert Van Dorne senior going to bring in lbert Van Dorne senior VP of engineering at Qualcomm to help me VP of engineering at Qualcomm to help me VP of engineering at Qualcomm to help me understand more about what's going on understand more about what's going on understand more about what's going on ler at Qualcomm when you came in you ler at Qualcomm when you came in you ler at Qualcomm when you came in you needed to shift the culture to an open needed to shift the culture to an open needed to shift the culture to an open one to and you wrote a Manifesto to help one to and you wrote a Manifesto to help one to and you wrote a Manifesto to help people get their heads right talk to me people get their heads right talk to me people get their heads right talk to me about that Manifesto yeah so it feels about that Manifesto yeah so it feels about that Manifesto yeah so it feels like every Big company needs to go like every Big company needs to go like every Big company needs to go through this kind of culture change to through this kind of culture change to through this kind of culture change to become more open and to uh adop become more open and to uh adop become more open and to uh adop certainly open source and so yes I wrote certainly open source and so yes I wrote certainly open source and so yes I wrote a Manifesto where I basically pointed a Manifesto where I basically pointed a Manifesto where I basically pointed out that our traditional business model out that our traditional business model out that our traditional business model uh which is around cell phones which has uh which is around cell phones which has uh which is around cell phones which has made us extremely successful right

made us extremely successful right made us extremely successful right doesn't really work or doesn't scale to doesn't really work or doesn't scale to doesn't really work or doesn't scale to our new strategy where we're our new strategy where we're our new strategy where we're diversifying we're we're addressing XR diversifying we're we're addressing XR diversifying we're we're addressing XR we're addressing PC we're addressing iot we're addressing PC we're addressing iot we're addressing PC we're addressing iot we're addressing we're addressing we're addressing auto key thing about all these new auto key thing about all these new auto key thing about all these new Diversified businesses is that open Diversified businesses is that open Diversified businesses is that open source is a critical part of that source is a critical part of that source is a critical part of that business model and so we need to we business model and so we need to we business model and so we need to we needed to adopt that and we needed to needed to adopt that and we needed to needed to adopt that and we needed to embrace it and that's basically was very embrace it and that's basically was very embrace it and that's basically was very well received by my SE suite and it's well received by my SE suite and it's well received by my SE suite and it's very actively Something That We're very actively Something That We're very actively Something That We're engaging in so a lot of the open source engaging in so a lot of the open source engaging in so a lot of the open source engagements that you see from a lot of engagements that you see from a lot of engagements that you see from a lot of Welcome developers it sort of goes back Welcome developers it sort of goes back Welcome developers it sort of goes back to it's a continuation really shouldn't to it's a continuation really shouldn't to it's a continuation really shouldn't say that I all started it but I say that I all started it but I say that I all started it but I certainly put the emphasis on it was certainly put the emphasis on it was certainly put the emphasis on it was like hey this is going toal it needs to like hey this is going toal it needs to like hey this is going toal it needs to I'm pretty excited about that I love it I'm pretty excited about that I love it I'm pretty excited about that I love it open First Community first a lot of open First Community first a lot of open First Community first a lot of great stuff happening at Qualcomm you great stuff happening at Qualcomm you great stuff happening at Qualcomm you can learn more at can learn more at can learn more at qualcomm.com qualcomm.com qualcomm.com developer I've heard the term secret Ops developer I've heard the term secret Ops developer I've heard the term secret Ops like Dev Ops but secret Ops and I see like Dev Ops but secret Ops and I see like Dev Ops but secret Ops and I see that a lot uh on your side in your docs that a lot uh on your side in your docs that a lot uh on your side in your docs um but I hadn't heard it said a lot is um but I hadn't heard it said a lot is um but I hadn't heard it said a lot is that a thing is secret Ops a thing or that a thing is secret Ops a thing or that a thing is secret Ops a thing or are we making it a thing uh so I think are we making it a thing uh so I think are we making it a thing uh so I think we meded it thing so it's secret Ops Dev we meded it thing so it's secret Ops Dev we meded it thing so it's secret Ops Dev secret Ops we kind of meded IT thing and secret Ops we kind of meded IT thing and secret Ops we kind of meded IT thing and uh uh it it's also for the audience we uh uh it it's also for the audience we uh uh it it's also for the audience we trying to sell to right so they trying to sell to right so they trying to sell to right so they understand this language uh when you say

understand this language uh when you say understand this language uh when you say secret Ops or when you say de secret up secret Ops or when you say de secret up secret Ops or when you say de secret up they understand it and it helps them they understand it and it helps them they understand it and it helps them become way more familiar than they are become way more familiar than they are become way more familiar than they are with it right uh so to sell to devs you with it right uh so to sell to devs you with it right uh so to sell to devs you need to speak their language that's kind need to speak their language that's kind need to speak their language that's kind of where it comes from really I see so of where it comes from really I see so of where it comes from really I see so onboard base is this secret Ops onboard base is this secret Ops onboard base is this secret Ops infrastructure so Environ variable infrastructure so Environ variable infrastructure so Environ variable configs secret credentials like anything configs secret credentials like anything configs secret credentials like anything whether it be local devs need access to whether it be local devs need access to whether it be local devs need access to something or in prod you don't want something or in prod you don't want something or in prod you don't want anyone to ever see the secrets but you anyone to ever see the secrets but you anyone to ever see the secrets but you want them to be able to share but I want them to be able to share but I want them to be able to share but I assume you also need to be able to assume you also need to be able to assume you also need to be able to rotate Secrets like Secrets change if rotate Secrets like Secrets change if rotate Secrets like Secrets change if it's a personal access token you might it's a personal access token you might it's a personal access token you might like we recently at Microsoft have like like we recently at Microsoft have like like we recently at Microsoft have like shortened the amount of time you used to shortened the amount of time you used to shortened the amount of time you used to make a personal access token it would make a personal access token it would make a personal access token it would live forever and now they'll they'll live forever and now they'll they'll live forever and now they'll they'll spin them every day or every every seven spin them every day or every every seven spin them every day or every every seven days do you also help with that life days do you also help with that life days do you also help with that life cycle that's security life cycle yes so cycle that's security life cycle yes so cycle that's security life cycle yes so um we do this particularly for API um we do this particularly for API um we do this particularly for API tokens right you can auto rotate API tokens right you can auto rotate API tokens right you can auto rotate API tokens um connection strings like debut tokens um connection strings like debut tokens um connection strings like debut credentials you can set time limits to credentials you can set time limits to credentials you can set time limits to them as well so do you want this person them as well so do you want this person them as well so do you want this person to use it say 100 times or uh 30 days to use it say 100 times or uh 30 days to use it say 100 times or uh 30 days right so once it reach those limit it right so once it reach those limit it right so once it reach those limit it automatically expires or it's automatically expires or it's automatically expires or it's automatically rotated it's actually very automatically rotated it's actually very automatically rotated it's actually very key for development because uh uh key for development because uh uh key for development because uh uh developers are actively working and developers are actively working and developers are actively working and especially teams that hire contractors especially teams that hire contractors especially teams that hire contractors you need this level of safety to auto you need this level of safety to auto you need this level of safety to auto rotate even in your servers right so we

rotate even in your servers right so we rotate even in your servers right so we are saying that you know what no matter are saying that you know what no matter are saying that you know what no matter what happens even if you get a data what happens even if you get a data what happens even if you get a data Bridge right there's hardly anything Bridge right there's hardly anything Bridge right there's hardly anything that they are going to find in your that they are going to find in your that they are going to find in your servers to begin with and even if it's servers to begin with and even if it's servers to begin with and even if it's there is already Auto rotated based on there is already Auto rotated based on there is already Auto rotated based on the credentials or the limit you set the credentials or the limit you set the credentials or the limit you set right so we don't want you to think right so we don't want you to think right so we don't want you to think about security too much we just want you about security too much we just want you about security too much we just want you to actively build what you're building to actively build what you're building to actively build what you're building and leave the security to us in that and leave the security to us in that and leave the security to us in that sense right secure yeah secure by sense right secure yeah secure by sense right secure yeah secure by default and uh as long as they're using default and uh as long as they're using default and uh as long as they're using your stuff correctly they will be your stuff correctly they will be your stuff correctly they will be successful we use this term at my successful we use this term at my successful we use this term at my company called the pit of success so company called the pit of success so company called the pit of success so even if you fall you fall into the pit even if you fall you fall into the pit even if you fall you fall into the pit of success yes you know even messing up of success yes you know even messing up of success yes you know even messing up you can still succeed and that I think you can still succeed and that I think you can still succeed and that I think is a is a good is a is a good is a is a good idea um now when I think about Hashi cor idea um now when I think about Hashi cor idea um now when I think about Hashi cor Vault I usually think about kuber NES Vault I usually think about kuber NES Vault I usually think about kuber NES and when I think about safeguarding and when I think about safeguarding and when I think about safeguarding confidential data in Dynamic systems confidential data in Dynamic systems confidential data in Dynamic systems like kubernetes is this primarily for like kubernetes is this primarily for like kubernetes is this primarily for kubernetes or can I do it in any old web kubernetes or can I do it in any old web kubernetes or can I do it in any old web app or what about mobile apps and other app or what about mobile apps and other app or what about mobile apps and other apps that are in different apps that are in different apps that are in different environments the be fo thing about un environments the be fo thing about un environments the be fo thing about un Bas you can use it for anything anywhere Bas you can use it for anything anywhere Bas you can use it for anything anywhere at all right it's built to fit into at all right it's built to fit into at all right it's built to fit into almost any systems we've hardly found almost any systems we've hardly found almost any systems we've hardly found any system that it doesn't fit into it's any system that it doesn't fit into it's any system that it doesn't fit into it's why we have a very extensive why we have a very extensive why we have a very extensive documentation and cover a whole lot of documentation and cover a whole lot of documentation and cover a whole lot of Frameworks a whole lot of uh Frameworks a whole lot of uh Frameworks a whole lot of uh Integrations across several different Integrations across several different Integrations across several different Cloud platforms so as long as you're Cloud platforms so as long as you're Cloud platforms so as long as you're using secret or managing Secrets using secret or managing Secrets using secret or managing Secrets anywhere on base will work for you right

anywhere on base will work for you right anywhere on base will work for you right and uh We've made it possible for you to and uh We've made it possible for you to and uh We've made it possible for you to easily use on Bas as a droing easily use on Bas as a droing easily use on Bas as a droing replacement for your environment replacement for your environment replacement for your environment variables anywhere that you variables anywhere that you variables anywhere that you use okay so are environment variables use okay so are environment variables use okay so are environment variables now kind of like the primary way to have now kind of like the primary way to have now kind of like the primary way to have secrets like basically dynamically secrets like basically dynamically secrets like basically dynamically injected envir variables within an injected envir variables within an injected envir variables within an individual process space are the primary individual process space are the primary individual process space are the primary way to have secrets be shared these way to have secrets be shared these way to have secrets be shared these days most people use environment days most people use environment days most people use environment variables locally EMV files locally and variables locally EMV files locally and variables locally EMV files locally and uh that's how they then share these uh that's how they then share these uh that's how they then share these files across teammates right copy and files across teammates right copy and files across teammates right copy and pasting it almost everywhere right you pasting it almost everywhere right you pasting it almost everywhere right you have environment variables in your have environment variables in your have environment variables in your servers uh local machine you have it servers uh local machine you have it servers uh local machine you have it almost everywhere right that's how most almost everywhere right that's how most almost everywhere right that's how most secrets are injected or used in Cloud secrets are injected or used in Cloud secrets are injected or used in Cloud platforms right platforms right platforms right we want to replace that EMV file we want to replace that EMV file we want to replace that EMV file completely we don't want you to maintain completely we don't want you to maintain completely we don't want you to maintain it at all because there's almost no need it at all because there's almost no need it at all because there's almost no need for it right once you are using om Bas for it right once you are using om Bas for it right once you are using om Bas you don't need emvs anywhere at all you don't need emvs anywhere at all you don't need emvs anywhere at all right om Bas just injects them real time right om Bas just injects them real time right om Bas just injects them real time and uh you can basically auto rotate and uh you can basically auto rotate and uh you can basically auto rotate them as we've previously said as well them as we've previously said as well them as we've previously said as well okay so EnV files are really a okay so EnV files are really a okay so EnV files are really a convention like web developers and convention like web developers and convention like web developers and developers in general have just decided developers in general have just decided developers in general have just decided hey password. text is too obvious we'll hey password. text is too obvious we'll hey password. text is too obvious we'll just put all of our name value pairs in just put all of our name value pairs in just put all of our name value pairs in a EnV file and you're saying your goal a EnV file and you're saying your goal a EnV file and you're saying your goal is to completely eliminate them I should is to completely eliminate them I should is to completely eliminate them I should not have EnV files existing it's a bad not have EnV files existing it's a bad not have EnV files existing it's a bad idea yeah it's a bad idea but I can

idea yeah it's a bad idea but I can idea yeah it's a bad idea but I can understand why people still maintain it understand why people still maintain it understand why people still maintain it because because because one one one uh personally I don't know why they uh personally I don't know why they uh personally I don't know why they still use it but if I see it somewhere still use it but if I see it somewhere still use it but if I see it somewhere I'm like okay yeah it's the convention I'm like okay yeah it's the convention I'm like okay yeah it's the convention everyone is used to most people don't everyone is used to most people don't everyone is used to most people don't want to change how they currently work want to change how they currently work want to change how they currently work right so they just use the EMV files and right so they just use the EMV files and right so they just use the EMV files and get on with their work work right so the get on with their work work right so the get on with their work work right so the average developer will start a project average developer will start a project average developer will start a project and have EMV files in your project right and have EMV files in your project right and have EMV files in your project right if you go through most repos you see if you go through most repos you see if you go through most repos you see they still have the EMV do example file they still have the EMV do example file they still have the EMV do example file for people to easily start up those for people to easily start up those for people to easily start up those projects right so uh yeah it's a projects right so uh yeah it's a projects right so uh yeah it's a convention that uh we have all agreed on convention that uh we have all agreed on convention that uh we have all agreed on to use going forward right but then to use going forward right but then to use going forward right but then people will take their they'll use the people will take their they'll use the people will take their they'll use the environment variable injection their environment variable injection their environment variable injection their Cloud provides so for example my secrets Cloud provides so for example my secrets Cloud provides so for example my secrets for this podcast are stored in Azure and for this podcast are stored in Azure and for this podcast are stored in Azure and I go into the Azure environment and I I go into the Azure environment and I I go into the Azure environment and I use these global environment variables use these global environment variables use these global environment variables which seems like a kind of a shotgun which seems like a kind of a shotgun which seems like a kind of a shotgun approach in the sense of every process approach in the sense of every process approach in the sense of every process everywhere that's involved in any way everywhere that's involved in any way everywhere that's involved in any way with my app knows those global with my app knows those global with my app knows those global environment variables so EnV files are environment variables so EnV files are environment variables so EnV files are very static and they sit there and very static and they sit there and very static and they sit there and probably a insecure thing but then probably a insecure thing but then probably a insecure thing but then global environment variables seems like global environment variables seems like global environment variables seems like a big deal does onboard base fit a big deal does onboard base fit a big deal does onboard base fit somewhere in the middle with like a somewhere in the middle with like a somewhere in the middle with like a principle of least knowledge I only want principle of least knowledge I only want principle of least knowledge I only want some processes to know some Secrets not some processes to know some Secrets not some processes to know some Secrets not all the processes to know all the all the processes to know all the all the processes to know all the secrets yes so uh on on base you can secrets yes so uh on on base you can secrets yes so uh on on base you can create several different environments create several different environments create several different environments production local development and then

production local development and then production local development and then you point those specific environments to you point those specific environments to you point those specific environments to where they are needed right so where they are needed right so where they are needed right so production will probably put Point your production will probably put Point your production will probably put Point your servers while local will point to any servers while local will point to any servers while local will point to any developer working locally right so you developer working locally right so you developer working locally right so you can create Serv tokens to give access to can create Serv tokens to give access to can create Serv tokens to give access to particular projects and secrets for any particular projects and secrets for any particular projects and secrets for any service that you want them to give service that you want them to give service that you want them to give access to so we give as much information access to so we give as much information access to so we give as much information as needed we don't give more than that as needed we don't give more than that as needed we don't give more than that right at at least from the admin point right at at least from the admin point right at at least from the admin point of view and uh something we also have of view and uh something we also have of view and uh something we also have gone ahead to do is say okay you know gone ahead to do is say okay you know gone ahead to do is say okay you know what we also revoke device what we also revoke device what we also revoke device tokens right so if developers have so tokens right so if developers have so tokens right so if developers have so when you install um Bas on your local when you install um Bas on your local when you install um Bas on your local machine it registers a token on your machine it registers a token on your machine it registers a token on your device for you to get access to your device for you to get access to your device for you to get access to your team's uh Secrets right so now when a team's uh Secrets right so now when a team's uh Secrets right so now when a teammate leave we you can easily go teammate leave we you can easily go teammate leave we you can easily go there revoke those particular devices or there revoke those particular devices or there revoke those particular devices or say teammate system got um compromised say teammate system got um compromised say teammate system got um compromised you can just go there R the devices and you can just go there R the devices and you can just go there R the devices and get on with whatever it is you're doing get on with whatever it is you're doing get on with whatever it is you're doing you don't need to worry about it anymore you don't need to worry about it anymore you don't need to worry about it anymore and that system would not have access to and that system would not have access to and that system would not have access to your secrets anymore your secrets anymore your secrets anymore completely and then on the the usage completely and then on the the usage completely and then on the the usage side once you started using it you might side once you started using it you might side once you started using it you might accidentally leak a secret though like accidentally leak a secret though like accidentally leak a secret though like you've gone and received it from onboard you've gone and received it from onboard you've gone and received it from onboard base but then maybe I'm doing a base but then maybe I'm doing a base but then maybe I'm doing a console.log or it's in a log in my build console.log or it's in a log in my build console.log or it's in a log in my build environment or it's you know copy pasted environment or it's you know copy pasted environment or it's you know copy pasted somewhere uh how would I scan or prevent somewhere uh how would I scan or prevent somewhere uh how would I scan or prevent those secrets from leaking that's where

those secrets from leaking that's where those secrets from leaking that's where SEC Lo comes in right so um we thought SEC Lo comes in right so um we thought SEC Lo comes in right so um we thought about how do about how do about how do people use secret today before they need people use secret today before they need people use secret today before they need secret managers right secret managers right secret managers right they use secret via their em files or in they use secret via their em files or in they use secret via their em files or in their project and something no one wants their project and something no one wants their project and something no one wants is a secret leakage they don't want is a secret leakage they don't want is a secret leakage they don't want those secrets to get into their client those secrets to get into their client those secrets to get into their client or whatever it is so you build secure or whatever it is so you build secure or whatever it is so you build secure log to go into your project your console log to go into your project your console log to go into your project your console log files your RC components your R log files your RC components your R log files your RC components your R server components and make sure that it server components and make sure that it server components and make sure that it scans and Max those Secrets if you want scans and Max those Secrets if you want scans and Max those Secrets if you want that or removes them right so we show that or removes them right so we show that or removes them right so we show you all the places that the secrets have you all the places that the secrets have you all the places that the secrets have been used or leaked you can either mask been used or leaked you can either mask been used or leaked you can either mask it so masking sometimes maybe uh some it so masking sometimes maybe uh some it so masking sometimes maybe uh some secrets are showing up in user logs secrets are showing up in user logs secrets are showing up in user logs right so you might not want to remove right so you might not want to remove right so you might not want to remove them you just easily Max them right and them you just easily Max them right and them you just easily Max them right and this make sure that your secrets remain this make sure that your secrets remain this make sure that your secrets remain secret right so whether you want it secret right so whether you want it secret right so whether you want it there or not our goal with SEC log is to there or not our goal with SEC log is to there or not our goal with SEC log is to let you know hey this is what is let you know hey this is what is let you know hey this is what is happening do you want it to remain happening do you want it to remain happening do you want it to remain secret or not or do you want to remove secret or not or do you want to remove secret or not or do you want to remove it okay and is secure log in ejecting it okay and is secure log in ejecting it okay and is secure log in ejecting itself in like I see the sample code for itself in like I see the sample code for itself in like I see the sample code for it is just literally new secure log and it is just literally new secure log and it is just literally new secure log and then all my console. logs are being seen then all my console. logs are being seen then all my console. logs are being seen they're somehow being going through they're somehow being going through they're somehow being going through onboard onboard onboard base in in Secure logs environment how base in in Secure logs environment how base in in Secure logs environment how are you seeing those secrets and are you seeing those secrets and are you seeing those secrets and preventing them from showing up so uh it preventing them from showing up so uh it preventing them from showing up so uh it uh completely scans any sensitive

uh completely scans any sensitive uh completely scans any sensitive information that you log into the information that you log into the information that you log into the console right so it's watching out for a console right so it's watching out for a console right so it's watching out for a couple of console related tags like couple of console related tags like couple of console related tags like console law console error we scan those console law console error we scan those console law console error we scan those uh particular uh commands or objects to uh particular uh commands or objects to uh particular uh commands or objects to make sure that no secrets are being make sure that no secrets are being make sure that no secrets are being leaked once you notice anything leaked once you notice anything leaked once you notice anything sensitive we mask it immediately and sensitive we mask it immediately and sensitive we mask it immediately and show you hey this is being leaked here show you hey this is being leaked here show you hey this is being leaked here what do you want to do we try not to be what do you want to do we try not to be what do you want to do we try not to be intrusive at all uh and uh or disrupt intrusive at all uh and uh or disrupt intrusive at all uh and uh or disrupt your flow we just let you know this is your flow we just let you know this is your flow we just let you know this is happening what do you want what's the happening what do you want what's the happening what do you want what's the next CA of action and for you to take next CA of action and for you to take next CA of action and for you to take the next course of action we also the next course of action we also the next course of action we also provide what you need to do interesting provide what you need to do interesting provide what you need to do interesting does that work on the client side as does that work on the client side as does that work on the client side as well can I prevent that from showing up well can I prevent that from showing up well can I prevent that from showing up an F12 tools yes so with secure log so an F12 tools yes so with secure log so an F12 tools yes so with secure log so sometimes I've seen where developers uh sometimes I've seen where developers uh sometimes I've seen where developers uh mostly Junior developers right they leak mostly Junior developers right they leak mostly Junior developers right they leak they mistakenly L log secrets in a they mistakenly L log secrets in a they mistakenly L log secrets in a console and it makes it production right console and it makes it production right console and it makes it production right secure La will make sure that those secure La will make sure that those secure La will make sure that those Secrets whether they get into your build Secrets whether they get into your build Secrets whether they get into your build or not will never make it or not will never make it or not will never make it production right they will only stay production right they will only stay production right they will only stay where they they are which is locally where they they are which is locally where they they are which is locally don't never make it to production you don't never make it to production you don't never make it to production you can prevent them from it's like um can prevent them from it's like um can prevent them from it's like um someone mentioned to me that Cog is someone mentioned to me that Cog is someone mentioned to me that Cog is probably going to make people lazy probably going to make people lazy probably going to make people lazy because they know Cog is going to handle because they know Cog is going to handle because they know Cog is going to handle it so they might just be negligent and it so they might just be negligent and it so they might just be negligent and lck things as they want I'm like well lck things as they want I'm like well lck things as they want I'm like well I'm assuming they going to do that I'm assuming they going to do that I'm assuming they going to do that already and that's where we

already and that's where we already and that's where we come you're assuming negligence and bad come you're assuming negligence and bad come you're assuming negligence and bad behavior you're assuming sloppiness so behavior you're assuming sloppiness so behavior you're assuming sloppiness so at every level here you're assuming that at every level here you're assuming that at every level here you're assuming that the developer is going to do the the the developer is going to do the the the developer is going to do the the wrong thing but you're going to again I wrong thing but you're going to again I wrong thing but you're going to again I come back to this idea of the pit of come back to this idea of the pit of come back to this idea of the pit of success they're going to keep falling success they're going to keep falling success they're going to keep falling and stumbling and you're going to catch and stumbling and you're going to catch and stumbling and you're going to catch them and they will fall into the pit of them and they will fall into the pit of them and they will fall into the pit of success yes uh so yeah you need to success yes uh so yeah you need to success yes uh so yeah you need to assume that mistakes are going to happen assume that mistakes are going to happen assume that mistakes are going to happen there's no two ways about it they are there's no two ways about it they are there's no two ways about it they are going to happen whether I like it or not going to happen whether I like it or not going to happen whether I like it or not the best thing you can do is get ahead the best thing you can do is get ahead the best thing you can do is get ahead of that that's cool but you're also of that that's cool but you're also of that that's cool but you're also trying to you're getting you're getting trying to you're getting you're getting trying to you're getting you're getting so far ahead of it is that you really so far ahead of it is that you really so far ahead of it is that you really want to prevent these things from ever want to prevent these things from ever want to prevent these things from ever escaping in the first place yeah uh like escaping in the first place yeah uh like escaping in the first place yeah uh like I don't I don't I don't know people how people have dealt with know people how people have dealt with know people how people have dealt with data breaches but haven't dealt with one data breaches but haven't dealt with one data breaches but haven't dealt with one I hated the feeling I hated the feeling I hated the feeling it's oh my God it's so frustrating it's oh my God it's so frustrating it's oh my God it's so frustrating because everything is coming down a because everything is coming down a because everything is coming down a thousand one times all at you all at thousand one times all at you all at thousand one times all at you all at once and you're wondering what do you do once and you're wondering what do you do once and you're wondering what do you do how do you mitigate this and then at the how do you mitigate this and then at the how do you mitigate this and then at the aftermath you think of what could have aftermath you think of what could have aftermath you think of what could have been done better right and uh that been done better right and uh that been done better right and uh that sinking feeling like this is a very sinking feeling like this is a very sinking feeling like this is a very sickening feeling in your chest where sickening feeling in your chest where sickening feeling in your chest where you go oh you go oh you go oh no oh it's oh no oh no oh no 10 times no oh it's oh no oh no oh no 10 times no oh it's oh no oh no oh no 10 times like so yeah it's it's insane and um you like so yeah it's it's insane and um you like so yeah it's it's insane and um you don't want teams to go through that don't want teams to go through that don't want teams to go through that because most times you lose money you because most times you lose money you because most times you lose money you lose credibility right a lot of teams

lose credibility right a lot of teams lose credibility right a lot of teams don't come back from data bres right don't come back from data bres right don't come back from data bres right they've lost that trust right and trust they've lost that trust right and trust they've lost that trust right and trust is one of the things that is very hard is one of the things that is very hard is one of the things that is very hard to beat up yeah that is a really to beat up yeah that is a really to beat up yeah that is a really powerful statement like we've heard powerful statement like we've heard powerful statement like we've heard about this before the idea that you about this before the idea that you about this before the idea that you could take 10 years to build up trust could take 10 years to build up trust could take 10 years to build up trust and it takes one moment to like you and it takes one moment to like you and it takes one moment to like you think about these poor Cloud strike think about these poor Cloud strike think about these poor Cloud strike people yeah you know I mean when you people yeah you know I mean when you people yeah you know I mean when you reboot the entire world and shut down reboot the entire world and shut down reboot the entire world and shut down all the airplanes it's going to be a all the airplanes it's going to be a all the airplanes it's going to be a problem to get that problem to get that problem to get that back mind uh um so we did it PST on the back mind uh um so we did it PST on the back mind uh um so we did it PST on the crowd strike thing and uh I'm like so crowd strike thing and uh I'm like so crowd strike thing and uh I'm like so many things could have been done to PR many things could have been done to PR many things could have been done to PR vend this vend this vend this but uh I don't know what happened I'm but uh I don't know what happened I'm but uh I don't know what happened I'm just assuming it's it's just one of just assuming it's it's just one of just assuming it's it's just one of those it was just one of those days but those it was just one of those days but those it was just one of those days but unfortunately for them it was it unfortunately for them it was it unfortunately for them it was it affected the entire world so indeed so affected the entire world so indeed so affected the entire world so indeed so when you get in the security business when you get in the security business when you get in the security business though is it do you feel risky like what though is it do you feel risky like what though is it do you feel risky like what happens if onboard basis SEC Cur log happens if onboard basis SEC Cur log happens if onboard basis SEC Cur log misses a thing that's a like you're misses a thing that's a like you're misses a thing that's a like you're almost asking for it because when you almost asking for it because when you almost asking for it because when you step into a secure Ops environment you step into a secure Ops environment you step into a secure Ops environment you you have to get it right yeah you have you have to get it right yeah you have you have to get it right yeah you have to Red Team your own stuff yeah so to Red Team your own stuff yeah so to Red Team your own stuff yeah so before we do before we push code to before we do before we push code to before we do before we push code to development it goes to rigorous testing development it goes to rigorous testing development it goes to rigorous testing like proper security testing like uh a like proper security testing like uh a like proper security testing like uh a product or feature could be done in one product or feature could be done in one product or feature could be done in one week or a couple of days but it needs to week or a couple of days but it needs to week or a couple of days but it needs to go through security checks for a whole go through security checks for a whole go through security checks for a whole week before push that out right the only

week before push that out right the only week before push that out right the only part we might say does not go through part we might say does not go through part we might say does not go through rigorous Security check is the website rigorous Security check is the website rigorous Security check is the website right those you can easily bounce off a right those you can easily bounce off a right those you can easily bounce off a couple of things because they're not uh couple of things because they're not uh couple of things because they're not uh customer ficent right let me put it that customer ficent right let me put it that customer ficent right let me put it that way so but the main product itself needs way so but the main product itself needs way so but the main product itself needs to go proper Security checks it needs to to go proper Security checks it needs to to go proper Security checks it needs to be actively tested so we have automated be actively tested so we have automated be actively tested so we have automated testing but we still manually test testing but we still manually test testing but we still manually test almost every feature in UMAS and the almost every feature in UMAS and the almost every feature in UMAS and the good thing is we actively use it good thing is we actively use it good thing is we actively use it ourselves so it's way way way easier for ourselves so it's way way way easier for ourselves so it's way way way easier for us right yeah I I don't start any us right yeah I I don't start any us right yeah I I don't start any project with without using om base H uh project with without using om base H uh project with without using om base H uh it's insane how fast it is personally it's insane how fast it is personally it's insane how fast it is personally and sometimes I'm like how did we make and sometimes I'm like how did we make and sometimes I'm like how did we make this thing so fast uh but I remember this thing so fast uh but I remember this thing so fast uh but I remember something I keep saying to myself the something I keep saying to myself the something I keep saying to myself the one thing you can always control is one thing you can always control is one thing you can always control is friction and so every day we try to friction and so every day we try to friction and so every day we try to remove as much friction as possible from remove as much friction as possible from remove as much friction as possible from the product and removing friction makes the product and removing friction makes the product and removing friction makes it less complicated and makes it way it less complicated and makes it way it less complicated and makes it way more secure than that is a very very more secure than that is a very very more secure than that is a very very empath athetic very customer focused way empath athetic very customer focused way empath athetic very customer focused way of thinking things right like like okay of thinking things right like like okay of thinking things right like like okay this took nine clicks how can it take this took nine clicks how can it take this took nine clicks how can it take eight you know this took this many eight you know this took this many eight you know this took this many keystrokes this this felt weird when I keystrokes this this felt weird when I keystrokes this this felt weird when I did that how can I make that not feel did that how can I make that not feel did that how can I make that not feel weird uh a frictionless onboarding weird uh a frictionless onboarding weird uh a frictionless onboarding experience a frictionless signup experience a frictionless signup experience a frictionless signup experience that's a lot of work it is uh experience that's a lot of work it is uh experience that's a lot of work it is uh but um when you go back to audacity I but um when you go back to audacity I but um when you go back to audacity I believe omal Bay feels like it's a piece

believe omal Bay feels like it's a piece believe omal Bay feels like it's a piece of me right and uh you know that piece of me right and uh you know that piece of me right and uh you know that piece you take care of that piece and you want you take care of that piece and you want you take care of that piece and you want the very best for that piece so uh the the very best for that piece so uh the the very best for that piece so uh the best products out there are love Kind of best products out there are love Kind of best products out there are love Kind of Love Letters From the founders because Love Letters From the founders because Love Letters From the founders because they taken so well care of those product they taken so well care of those product they taken so well care of those product themselves and that's how I see onboard themselves and that's how I see onboard themselves and that's how I see onboard based based based personally that's awesome so when folks personally that's awesome so when folks personally that's awesome so when folks want to sign up for this they go to want to sign up for this they go to want to sign up for this they go to onboard base.com they hit sign up and onboard base.com they hit sign up and onboard base.com they hit sign up and how quickly is it going to take uh to how quickly is it going to take uh to how quickly is it going to take uh to get this going five minutes or less get this going five minutes or less get this going five minutes or less depending on your setup really five depending on your setup really five depending on your setup really five minutes or less uh you sign up you add minutes or less uh you sign up you add minutes or less uh you sign up you add your keys you install the C and you're your keys you install the C and you're your keys you install the C and you're really good to go uh so five minutes or really good to go uh so five minutes or really good to go uh so five minutes or less and if you Pro two minutes so but less and if you Pro two minutes so but less and if you Pro two minutes so but yeah and then the quick start I thought yeah and then the quick start I thought yeah and then the quick start I thought was very surprising you actually have was very surprising you actually have was very surprising you actually have this really cool quick start which I this really cool quick start which I this really cool quick start which I thought was quite clever uh it's uh you thought was quite clever uh it's uh you thought was quite clever uh it's uh you just go to onboard base and hit quick just go to onboard base and hit quick just go to onboard base and hit quick start you actually have people pasting start you actually have people pasting start you actually have people pasting in example key values uh and you're not in example key values uh and you're not in example key values uh and you're not literally asking them to give you their literally asking them to give you their literally asking them to give you their secrets but you're trying to show them secrets but you're trying to show them secrets but you're trying to show them how convenient it is and I thought that how convenient it is and I thought that how convenient it is and I thought that was quite clever yeah um so one thing I was quite clever yeah um so one thing I was quite clever yeah um so one thing I tried to incorporate into products or tried to incorporate into products or tried to incorporate into products or every product I build is a live demo every product I build is a live demo every product I build is a live demo every product I build has a live demo every product I build has a live demo every product I build has a live demo because I want you to be able to test it because I want you to be able to test it because I want you to be able to test it out almost immediately and see the value out almost immediately and see the value out almost immediately and see the value real time right and that particular real time right and that particular real time right and that particular thing brings us so much customers even thing brings us so much customers even thing brings us so much customers even though some of them might not stay but though some of them might not stay but though some of them might not stay but it gets people really really interested

it gets people really really interested it gets people really really interested in being able to try it out almost in being able to try it out almost in being able to try it out almost immediately so it was a clever one from immediately so it was a clever one from immediately so it was a clever one from us that is quite clever so folks can go us that is quite clever so folks can go us that is quite clever so folks can go to onboard base click sign up try it out to onboard base click sign up try it out to onboard base click sign up try it out or just you know go and uh take a look or just you know go and uh take a look or just you know go and uh take a look at the docs right on the front page at the docs right on the front page at the docs right on the front page there you've got try it you can see there you've got try it you can see there you've got try it you can see immediately how quickly you can get set immediately how quickly you can get set immediately how quickly you can get set up I thought it was really clever you up I thought it was really clever you up I thought it was really clever you and I met each other at I want to say uh and I met each other at I want to say uh and I met each other at I want to say uh we were at a react event K was it Kent we were at a react event K was it Kent we were at a react event K was it Kent dogs event yes yes fantastic and I'm dogs event yes yes fantastic and I'm dogs event yes yes fantastic and I'm glad that we finally got to uh to chat glad that we finally got to uh to chat glad that we finally got to uh to chat and put together a show and thanks for and put together a show and thanks for and put together a show and thanks for sharing your uh your startup with us sharing your uh your startup with us sharing your uh your startup with us yeah thanks for having me it's uh it's yeah thanks for having me it's uh it's yeah thanks for having me it's uh it's been great we've been chatting with been great we've been chatting with been great we've been chatting with Dante Lex you can check out onboard Dante Lex you can check out onboard Dante Lex you can check out onboard base.com and uh their product secur base.com and uh their product secur base.com and uh their product secur log.com uh this has been another episode log.com uh this has been another episode log.com uh this has been another episode of Hansel minutes and we'll see you of Hansel minutes and we'll see you of Hansel minutes and we'll see you again next week again next week again next week [Music] n n [Music]