EPISODE 34 - Scott & Mark Learn To...Vibe Coding, for Real (Again)

Speaking of all your test passing, did Speaking of all your test passing, did you get that that that thing working? you get that that that thing working? you get that that that thing working? Are you allowed to talk about that? The Are you allowed to talk about that? The Are you allowed to talk about that? The thing you're building that is uh thing you're building that is uh thing you're building that is uh >> Yes. Which one? Oh, shared memory GRPC. >> Yes. Which one? Oh, shared memory GRPC. >> Yes. Which one? Oh, shared memory GRPC. Yeah. Yeah. Um it is working. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Um it is working. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Um it is working. Oh, sorry. >> I'm working on like four things, so I >> I'm working on like four things, so I >> I'm working on like four things, so I didn't didn't didn't >> Well, the problem is I can never know >> Well, the problem is I can never know >> Well, the problem is I can never know what's secret or not, so I just kind of what's secret or not, so I just kind of what's secret or not, so I just kind of was like kind of like that thing. Yeah. was like kind of like that thing. Yeah. was like kind of like that thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, actually Did you ship it? Cuz I Well, actually Did you ship it? Cuz I Well, actually Did you ship it? Cuz I know that it was like right on the edge. know that it was like right on the edge. know that it was like right on the edge. You don't know if half the tests could You don't know if half the tests could You don't know if half the tests could have been like commented out. Actually, have been like commented out. Actually, have been like commented out. Actually, man, I've run into so many man, I've run into so many man, I've run into so many This is, you know, This is, you know, This is, you know, as everybody's like, "Oh, I just give as everybody's like, "Oh, I just give as everybody's like, "Oh, I just give your, you know, write your spec and the your, you know, write your spec and the your, you know, write your spec and the AI runs away with it." First of all, AI runs away with it." First of all, AI runs away with it." First of all, there was a paper [laughter] there was a paper [laughter] there was a paper [laughter] Here we go. Yeah. There was a paper just Here we go. Yeah. There was a paper just Here we go. Yeah. There was a paper just published that looks at published that looks at published that looks at model performance on or agent model performance on or agent model performance on or agent performance when there's an agents.md performance when there's an agents.md performance when there's an agents.md file. file. file. Yeah. And they found that yeah, they Yeah. And they found that yeah, they Yeah. And they found that yeah, they incrementally follow the spec incrementally follow the spec incrementally follow the spec better if there's an agent Sorry. Sorry. Sorry.

Sorry. Sorry. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> I didn't do anything. >> I didn't do anything. >> I didn't do anything. >> [cough] >> This is like the >> This is like the the COVID video where the the kid comes the COVID video where the the kid comes the COVID video where the the kid comes into the room. Yeah. into the room. Yeah. into the room. Yeah. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Put the cat away. >> Put the cat away. >> Put the cat away. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. >> [music] >> So, yes. [music] You Tell people what >> So, yes. [music] You Tell people what you're trying to make and what's going you're trying to make and what's going you're trying to make and what's going wrong with it. Well, so I'm trying to create this So, Well, so I'm trying to create this So, GRPC GRPC GRPC uh Google RPC it originally stood for uh Google RPC it originally stood for uh Google RPC it originally stood for and maybe it still does and maybe it still does and maybe it still does is a interprocess communications is a interprocess communications is a interprocess communications standard where you can pass buffer standard where you can pass buffer standard where you can pass buffer typically protobuf formatted data typically protobuf formatted data typically protobuf formatted data between processes and you you generate between processes and you you generate between processes and you you generate client server stubs. It's, you know, client server stubs. It's, you know, client server stubs. It's, you know, like middle, you know, old Microsoft like middle, you know, old Microsoft like middle, you know, old Microsoft people remember that.

people remember that. people remember that. Except it works distributed across Except it works distributed across Except it works distributed across distributed distributed distributed uh uh uh systems. systems. systems. And um And um And um it works over HTTP 2 on top of either it works over HTTP 2 on top of either it works over HTTP 2 on top of either TCP or or some of the languages that TCP or or some of the languages that TCP or or some of the languages that support Unix domain sockets. But support Unix domain sockets. But support Unix domain sockets. But >> Okay. if you're on the same box, process >> Okay. if you're on the same box, process >> Okay. if you're on the same box, process talking to process, it makes no sense to talking to process, it makes no sense to talking to process, it makes no sense to go over TCP when you've got the ability go over TCP when you've got the ability go over TCP when you've got the ability to share memory and just drop data into to share memory and just drop data into to share memory and just drop data into buffers that can be copied from one side buffers that can be copied from one side buffers that can be copied from one side to the other. to the other. to the other. My My My hypothesis theory is that that'll give hypothesis theory is that that'll give hypothesis theory is that that'll give you a big performance boost, especially you a big performance boost, especially you a big performance boost, especially for large buffer trans, you know, for large buffer trans, you know, for large buffer trans, you know, transmission transmission transmission sharing, which is interesting for two sharing, which is interesting for two sharing, which is interesting for two cases. One is Dapper, which uses sidecar cases. One is Dapper, which uses sidecar cases. One is Dapper, which uses sidecar to pass data between the app and the to pass data between the app and the to pass data between the app and the Dapper component in the sidecar. Dapper component in the sidecar. Dapper component in the sidecar. And it's also interesting for Go And it's also interesting for Go And it's also interesting for Go potentially because Go doesn't have a potentially because Go doesn't have a potentially because Go doesn't have a dynamic loaded module support. But if dynamic loaded module support. But if dynamic loaded module support. But if you had you had you had modules that are effectively separate modules that are effectively separate modules that are effectively separate processes with GRPC to connect them to processes with GRPC to connect them to processes with GRPC to connect them to the main code, you kind of have a the main code, you kind of have a the main code, you kind of have a dynamic loading capability.

dynamic loading capability. dynamic loading capability. Um Um Um if it's high performance enough. if it's high performance enough. if it's high performance enough. So, I started down this path and I So, I started down this path and I So, I started down this path and I had multiple had multiple had multiple starts and stops last year with the starts and stops last year with the starts and stops last year with the models at the time just unable to get models at the time just unable to get models at the time just unable to get concurrency right. When Opus 4.5 came concurrency right. When Opus 4.5 came concurrency right. When Opus 4.5 came out, I started [snorts] it up again out, I started [snorts] it up again out, I started [snorts] it up again and made fast progress and now have and made fast progress and now have and made fast progress and now have >> think you would one shot this. I mean, >> think you would one shot this. I mean, >> think you would one shot this. I mean, you basically just expected it out of you basically just expected it out of you basically just expected it out of the box. the box. the box. >> It's definitely not one shot. It was >> It's definitely not one shot. It was >> It's definitely not one shot. It was many, many, many, many dozens, hundreds many, many, many, many dozens, hundreds many, many, many, many dozens, hundreds maybe of of shots to get to the where I maybe of of shots to get to the where I maybe of of shots to get to the where I am, but I've got GRPC Go shared memory am, but I've got GRPC Go shared memory am, but I've got GRPC Go shared memory working. working. working. And then a few weeks ago I started and And then a few weeks ago I started and And then a few weeks ago I started and said it'd be nice to have two examples said it'd be nice to have two examples said it'd be nice to have two examples because that way you can show, hey, this because that way you can show, hey, this because that way you can show, hey, this can be supported by multiple languages can be supported by multiple languages can be supported by multiple languages and they can interoperate together. So, and they can interoperate together. So, and they can interoperate together. So, I did I started with GRPC.net I did I started with GRPC.net I did I started with GRPC.net and have that working now. And by and have that working now. And by and have that working now. And by working I mean it passed all of the it working I mean it passed all of the it working I mean it passed all of the it passed tests that are equivalent of the passed tests that are equivalent of the passed tests that are equivalent of the TCP tests. It's got end-to-end examples TCP tests. It's got end-to-end examples TCP tests. It's got end-to-end examples that are equivalent. It supports all the that are equivalent. It supports all the that are equivalent. It supports all the GRPC functionality that's relevant. GRPC functionality that's relevant. GRPC functionality that's relevant. And I've got benchmarks running on it. And I've got benchmarks running on it. And I've got benchmarks running on it. So, I've got to that point. Now, it's So, I've got to that point. Now, it's So, I've got to that point. Now, it's still still still you know, some Yeah, go ahead. You got you know, some Yeah, go ahead. You got you know, some Yeah, go ahead. You got any question you want to ask me? I any question you want to ask me? I any question you want to ask me? I wanted to under So, you did the Go one wanted to under So, you did the Go one wanted to under So, you did the Go one first.

first. first. Did you get the Go one completely done Did you get the Go one completely done Did you get the Go one completely done and then port the Go one to .net? Did and then port the Go one to .net? Did and then port the Go one to .net? Did you back up and then do it idiomatically you back up and then do it idiomatically you back up and then do it idiomatically in .net? in .net? in .net? >> it's a separate repo. It's The um the >> it's a separate repo. It's The um the >> it's a separate repo. It's The um the way GRPC is organized is there's a GRPC way GRPC is organized is there's a GRPC way GRPC is organized is there's a GRPC core which supports a bunch of languages core which supports a bunch of languages core which supports a bunch of languages like Python and C++ and then there's like Python and C++ and then there's like Python and C++ and then there's language specific implementations like language specific implementations like language specific implementations like one for Go and one for .net. Right. I one for Go and one for .net. Right. I one for Go and one for .net. Right. I started originally with C++ but just started originally with C++ but just started originally with C++ but just then I was like, why am I wasting my then I was like, why am I wasting my then I was like, why am I wasting my time here? Because I really want to time here? Because I really want to time here? Because I really want to support the Dapper and Go DLL. So, I support the Dapper and Go DLL. So, I support the Dapper and Go DLL. So, I started So, I reset started So, I reset started So, I reset last year and started that, which also last year and started that, which also last year and started that, which also failed and then I restarted it and then failed and then I restarted it and then failed and then I restarted it and then that's what took me down this path that that's what took me down this path that that's what took me down this path that to go to .net next. Okay. But my to go to .net next. Okay. But my to go to .net next. Okay. But my question is as someone who said, "I'm question is as someone who said, "I'm question is as someone who said, "I'm going to make a thing that is that has going to make a thing that is that has going to make a thing that is that has to pass tests, it has to meet the to pass tests, it has to meet the to pass tests, it has to meet the specification, it's understood. I'm specification, it's understood. I'm specification, it's understood. I'm going to do it in two languages." going to do it in two languages." going to do it in two languages." Do you do it in one and then go Do you do it in one and then go Do you do it in one and then go laterally and go, "Okay, we have a laterally and go, "Okay, we have a laterally and go, "Okay, we have a >> separate Two separate things. >> separate Two separate things. >> separate Two separate things. >> Yeah. But that you But But the thing is >> Yeah. But that you But But the thing is >> Yeah. But that you But But the thing is though, you know stuff now. Yeah. though, you know stuff now. Yeah. though, you know stuff now. Yeah. Because you did it in Go. So, you are Because you did it in Go. So, you are Because you did it in Go. So, you are now infected with Did you Did it Was it now infected with Did you Did it Was it now infected with Did you Did it Was it easier in .net because you now easier in .net because you now easier in .net because you now >> it was easier. Cuz you knew stuff.

>> it was easier. Cuz you knew stuff. >> it was easier. Cuz you knew stuff. >> Yeah. In fact, I pointed it at the Go >> Yeah. In fact, I pointed it at the Go >> Yeah. In fact, I pointed it at the Go implementation of the implementation of the implementation of the core transport, which uses few taxes on core transport, which uses few taxes on core transport, which uses few taxes on Linux and Linux and Linux and events on and shared memory on Windows events on and shared memory on Windows events on and shared memory on Windows and I just said, "Copy that." So, I did and I just said, "Copy that." So, I did and I just said, "Copy that." So, I did get it started, so I didn't have to get it started, so I didn't have to get it started, so I didn't have to recreate all that it's, you know, from recreate all that it's, you know, from recreate all that it's, you know, from scratch. But I could just borrow the scratch. But I could just borrow the scratch. But I could just borrow the architecture and just implement it in architecture and just implement it in architecture and just implement it in .net. Okay. So, that's cool. .net. Okay. So, that's cool. .net. Okay. So, that's cool. But, you know, as we've shown many and But, you know, as we've shown many and But, you know, as we've shown many and talked about many times on this show, I talked about many times on this show, I talked about many times on this show, I might had to micromanage it the whole might had to micromanage it the whole might had to micromanage it the whole way. way. way. You have such a love-hate relationship You have such a love-hate relationship You have such a love-hate relationship with this stuff. I think it's so funny with this stuff. I think it's so funny with this stuff. I think it's so funny because you are 100% acknowledging that because you are 100% acknowledging that because you are 100% acknowledging that like, "Yeah, this is the future." like, "Yeah, this is the future." like, "Yeah, this is the future." Three times a day you're like, "This is Three times a day you're like, "This is Three times a day you're like, "This is the dumbest thing ever." the dumbest thing ever." the dumbest thing ever." >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Is it just cuz you're working on harder >> Is it just cuz you're working on harder >> Is it just cuz you're working on harder stuff? If you would just make React stuff? If you would just make React stuff? If you would just make React websites with the rest of us, they'd be websites with the rest of us, they'd be websites with the rest of us, they'd be fine. fine. fine. >> true. I think that's the problem. If >> true. I think that's the problem. If >> true. I think that's the problem. If it's just a web plus database thing with it's just a web plus database thing with it's just a web plus database thing with an uh UX, then yeah, that's well-worn an uh UX, then yeah, that's well-worn an uh UX, then yeah, that's well-worn paths not of of low complexity that paths not of of low complexity that paths not of of low complexity that these things are really good at. these things are really good at. these things are really good at. These things that I'm working on are These things that I'm working on are These things that I'm working on are me I'd say um medium complexity.

me I'd say um medium complexity. me I'd say um medium complexity. And there it's there I just see that And there it's there I just see that And there it's there I just see that they're I'm right at the edge of these they're I'm right at the edge of these they're I'm right at the edge of these things' capabilities to begin with. things' capabilities to begin with. things' capabilities to begin with. And then I'm spotting just nonsense and And then I'm spotting just nonsense and And then I'm spotting just nonsense and I'm spotting stuff that's just shocking. I'm spotting stuff that's just shocking. I'm spotting stuff that's just shocking. Like um and I've shared some of them Like um and I've shared some of them Like um and I've shared some of them with you that you know, it's just like, with you that you know, it's just like, with you that you know, it's just like, "What?" "What?" "What?" Like Like Like >> Yeah. I'm asking it >> Yeah. I'm asking it >> Yeah. I'm asking it I'm saying, "Does this use idiomatic Do I'm saying, "Does this use idiomatic Do I'm saying, "Does this use idiomatic Do Yeah, I just want to confirm." You so Yeah, I just want to confirm." You so Yeah, I just want to confirm." You so I'm I'm I try to be efficient with my I'm I'm I try to be efficient with my I'm I'm I try to be efficient with my time, so I'm not I'm not going to go time, so I'm not I'm not going to go time, so I'm not I'm not going to go look if I can ask the model. "Do all of look if I can ask the model. "Do all of look if I can ask the model. "Do all of the end-to-end examples that you've that the end-to-end examples that you've that the end-to-end examples that you've that have been written in here which I've have been written in here which I've have been written in here which I've originally said they need to be originally said they need to be originally said they need to be idiomatic Go GRPC?" idiomatic Go GRPC?" idiomatic Go GRPC?" >> Right. So, I get the examples, I think >> Right. So, I get the examples, I think >> Right. So, I get the examples, I think they're all done. they're all done. they're all done. And then and I even and even has a task And then and I even and even has a task And then and I even and even has a task list that it set out with all of them. list that it set out with all of them. list that it set out with all of them. And then I Okay, I set a new context And then I Okay, I set a new context And then I Okay, I set a new context like, "Go look and see if all the like, "Go look and see if all the like, "Go look and see if all the end-to-end examples have been end-to-end examples have been end-to-end examples have been implemented that are equivalent implemented that are equivalent implemented that are equivalent equivalent to the TCP ones." And it'll equivalent to the TCP ones." And it'll equivalent to the TCP ones." And it'll be like, "Oh, you know what? I see that be like, "Oh, you know what? I see that be like, "Oh, you know what? I see that there's 15 TCP ones and six of them have there's 15 TCP ones and six of them have there's 15 TCP ones and six of them have been implemented for Go." And I'm like, been implemented for Go." And I'm like, been implemented for Go." And I'm like, the model just told me it finished all the model just told me it finished all the model just told me it finished all of them.

of them. of them. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> So, when that happens, like I I have >> So, when that happens, like I I have >> So, when that happens, like I I have found in general work very rarely do I found in general work very rarely do I found in general work very rarely do I find it hallucinating stuff. Mostly it's find it hallucinating stuff. Mostly it's find it hallucinating stuff. Mostly it's just what I would call brain farts. Like just what I would call brain farts. Like just what I would call brain farts. Like I've told it 40 times today, "Stop I've told it 40 times today, "Stop I've told it 40 times today, "Stop pushing without asking." and it pushes pushing without asking." and it pushes pushing without asking." and it pushes anyway. And then you tell it, "Why'd you anyway. And then you tell it, "Why'd you anyway. And then you tell it, "Why'd you do that?" "Oh, I just don't know. I just do that?" "Oh, I just don't know. I just do that?" "Oh, I just don't know. I just pushed [laughter] it. Sorry, dude." pushed [laughter] it. Sorry, dude." pushed [laughter] it. Sorry, dude." You know? Yeah. You know? Yeah. You know? Yeah. They are They are brain farts like that. They are They are brain farts like that. They are They are brain farts like that. Oh, and Oh, and Oh, and I the fa- my one of my favorite brain I the fa- my one of my favorite brain I the fa- my one of my favorite brain farts ones was I'm like, farts ones was I'm like, farts ones was I'm like, I'm asking it again to evaluate the I'm asking it again to evaluate the I'm asking it again to evaluate the end-to-end examples. Are they all end-to-end examples. Are they all end-to-end examples. Are they all idiomatic idiomatic idiomatic Go? And it's like, "No, they're not." Go? And it's like, "No, they're not." Go? And it's like, "No, they're not." And I'm like, And I'm like, And I'm like, "How could that be?" Like I've I I "How could that be?" Like I've I I "How could that be?" Like I've I I [snorts] with my instructions, I asked [snorts] with my instructions, I asked [snorts] with my instructions, I asked it to do that before. This is in fresh it to do that before. This is in fresh it to do that before. This is in fresh context, so it's not like it's you know, context, so it's not like it's you know, context, so it's not like it's you know, an easy or whatever. And then I'm like, an easy or whatever. And then I'm like, an easy or whatever. And then I'm like, "I think you're wrong. I think they "I think you're wrong. I think they "I think you're wrong. I think they are." And it goes and like, "Oh, yeah, are." And it goes and like, "Oh, yeah, are." And it goes and like, "Oh, yeah, you're right. They are." you're right. They are." you're right. They are." But see, then now you don't know. Now But see, then now you don't know. Now But see, then now you don't know. Now you'll never know. [laughter] you'll never know. [laughter] you'll never know. [laughter] No, then I go look. Then I go look and No, then I go look. Then I go look and No, then I go look. Then I go look and then I'm like, "Give me evidence." But then I'm like, "Give me evidence." But then I'm like, "Give me evidence." But it's like this, it's like this, it's like this, "How can the thing be completely "How can the thing be completely "How can the thing be completely autonomous autonomous autonomous if it's making if it's making if it's making mistakes like that and just mistakes like that and just mistakes like that and just >> Yeah. And it can't And people will tell >> Yeah. And it can't And people will tell >> Yeah. And it can't And people will tell you, "Well, just put a really great test you, "Well, just put a really great test you, "Well, just put a really great test harness around it and run it in a loop."

harness around it and run it in a loop." harness around it and run it in a loop." No, it'll just it'll it'll lie on the No, it'll just it'll it'll lie on the No, it'll just it'll it'll lie on the tests. It'll put a sleep in Oh, here's tests. It'll put a sleep in Oh, here's tests. It'll put a sleep in Oh, here's one for you. Here's one for you. Here's one for you. Here's one for you. Here's one for you. Here's one for you. Here's one for you. The benchmarks, one for you. The benchmarks, one for you. The benchmarks, I have these sweeps of the the number of I have these sweeps of the the number of I have these sweeps of the the number of the size of the buffers in benchmarks the size of the buffers in benchmarks the size of the buffers in benchmarks starting with kilobytes and going up to starting with kilobytes and going up to starting with kilobytes and going up to 128 meg is what I want. And I can't tell 128 meg is what I want. And I can't tell 128 meg is what I want. And I can't tell you the number of times you the number of times you the number of times where I'm like, it's doing a whole ton where I'm like, it's doing a whole ton where I'm like, it's doing a whole ton of work and I'm having it like, you of work and I'm having it like, you of work and I'm having it like, you know, benchmark, make sure no know, benchmark, make sure no know, benchmark, make sure no regressions in the in the instructions regressions in the in the instructions regressions in the in the instructions to it. And after hours or the next day to it. And after hours or the next day to it. And after hours or the next day I'm like, "Okay, let show me the latest I'm like, "Okay, let show me the latest I'm like, "Okay, let show me the latest benchmark results." And I go look at it benchmark results." And I go look at it benchmark results." And I go look at it and it goes up to 16 meg. and it goes up to 16 meg. and it goes up to 16 meg. I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, "What happened to the other ones?" "Oh, "What happened to the other ones?" "Oh, "What happened to the other ones?" "Oh, yeah, they're they're not they're not in yeah, they're they're not they're not in yeah, they're they're not they're not in the benchmark anymore." Never did it. the benchmark anymore." Never did it. the benchmark anymore." Never did it. And then occasionally I'll catch it when And then occasionally I'll catch it when And then occasionally I'll catch it when I'm watching it process, it'll be like, I'm watching it process, it'll be like, I'm watching it process, it'll be like, "This seems to be a hang at six at 32 "This seems to be a hang at six at 32 "This seems to be a hang at six at 32 meg. Let's just leave that out." meg. Let's just leave that out." meg. Let's just leave that out." And so I'm like, that's what's And so I'm like, that's what's And so I'm like, that's what's happening. And it's happened like happening. And it's happened like happening. And it's happened like probably a dozen half a dozen times probably a dozen half a dozen times probably a dozen half a dozen times where it just takes out the where it just takes out the where it just takes out the 32 to 128 meg test out of the bench. It 32 to 128 meg test out of the bench. It 32 to 128 meg test out of the bench. It just happened again today.

just happened again today. just happened again today. And so why do you think it's doing that? And so why do you think it's doing that? And so why do you think it's doing that? Because it's like it's failing on this Because it's like it's failing on this Because it's like it's failing on this and so we don't need to that's not what and so we don't need to that's not what and so we don't need to that's not what I'm being asked to do. I'm not being I'm being asked to do. I'm not being I'm being asked to do. I'm not being asked to fix things. I'm being asked to asked to fix things. I'm being asked to asked to fix things. I'm being asked to benchmark things. benchmark things. benchmark things. And so it just leaves it out. And so it just leaves it out. And so it just leaves it out. >> There there is a >> There there is a >> There there is a there's something to be talked about and there's something to be talked about and there's something to be talked about and I wonder if there's been papers written I wonder if there's been papers written I wonder if there's been papers written on this about when it chooses to give on this about when it chooses to give on this about when it chooses to give up. I've been telling I've mine's been up. I've been telling I've mine's been up. I've been telling I've mine's been telling me uh Opus 46 has been saying telling me uh Opus 46 has been saying telling me uh Opus 46 has been saying you just go to bed. Like you're Oh yeah, you just go to bed. Like you're Oh yeah, you just go to bed. Like you're Oh yeah, it's actually somebody somebody posted it's actually somebody somebody posted it's actually somebody somebody posted on this on threads today. on this on threads today. on this on threads today. Really? Yeah. And it then you the guy Really? Yeah. And it then you the guy Really? Yeah. And it then you the guy with he's like the next morning he comes with he's like the next morning he comes with he's like the next morning he comes back and says how did it go and he's back and says how did it go and he's back and says how did it go and he's like, well all the agents crashed. like, well all the agents crashed. like, well all the agents crashed. I can restart that for you. I can restart that for you. I can restart that for you. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Uh my goodness. I >> Uh my goodness. I >> Uh my goodness. I having it go and and just say you should having it go and and just say you should having it go and and just say you should go to bed. I'm like there it's 10:30 go to bed. I'm like there it's 10:30 go to bed. I'm like there it's 10:30 dude. We're doing this. Like we're dude. We're doing this. Like we're dude. We're doing this. Like we're getting this done. getting this done. getting this done. >> even know what time it is. I don't know. >> even know what time it is. I don't know. >> even know what time it is. I don't know. And then it'll it'll say it probably ran And then it'll it'll say it probably ran And then it'll it'll say it probably ran a power shell script. But then it'll say a power shell script. But then it'll say a power shell script. But then it'll say okay, I'm re-energized. Let's let's okay, I'm re-energized. Let's let's okay, I'm re-energized. Let's let's attack this thing with fresh eyes. attack this thing with fresh eyes. attack this thing with fresh eyes. You know? [laughter] You know? [laughter] You know? [laughter] And the way that it anthropomorphizes And the way that it anthropomorphizes And the way that it anthropomorphizes itself. Like I was trying to build some itself. Like I was trying to build some itself. Like I was trying to build some C++ app today but I hadn't loaded within C++ app today but I hadn't loaded within C++ app today but I hadn't loaded within the developer command prompt context so the developer command prompt context so the developer command prompt context so it didn't have VC vars and all that kind it didn't have VC vars and all that kind it didn't have VC vars and all that kind of stuff loaded. So it was going out of of stuff loaded. So it was going out of of stuff loaded. So it was going out of its way to try to get all the [snorts] its way to try to get all the [snorts] its way to try to get all the [snorts] environment variables set but it can't environment variables set but it can't environment variables set but it can't because it's an app within a larger because it's an app within a larger because it's an app within a larger process.

process. process. And I said and I watched it like thrash And I said and I watched it like thrash And I said and I watched it like thrash just trying to just trying to just trying to and I was like would you like me to load and I was like would you like me to load and I was like would you like me to load you into a you into a you into a uh another context and it's like yes uh another context and it's like yes uh another context and it's like yes please would you would you please please would you would you please please would you would you please [laughter] load me load me into another [laughter] load me load me into another [laughter] load me load me into another context? And then I I exit loaded bring context? And then I I exit loaded bring context? And then I I exit loaded bring it back up and I go okay you're back now it back up and I go okay you're back now it back up and I go okay you're back now and it and it kind of like you can and it and it kind of like you can and it and it kind of like you can almost like imagine looking around going almost like imagine looking around going almost like imagine looking around going look at all these great environment look at all these great environment look at all these great environment variables. Now I can do the thing. Like variables. Now I can do the thing. Like variables. Now I can do the thing. Like you could have saved a lot of time. you could have saved a lot of time. you could have saved a lot of time. >> Yeah. I I yeah knowing when to give up. >> Yeah. I I yeah knowing when to give up. >> Yeah. I I yeah knowing when to give up. By the way the other one I don't I I By the way the other one I don't I I By the way the other one I don't I I think you talked about this one before. think you talked about this one before. think you talked about this one before. This project is using .NET 9 as the core This project is using .NET 9 as the core This project is using .NET 9 as the core for the tests. for the tests. for the tests. It keeps upgrading it to .NET 10. It keeps upgrading it to .NET 10. It keeps upgrading it to .NET 10. I'm like stop. I'm like stop. I'm like stop. Go back to .NET 9. It's like Go back to .NET 9. It's like Go back to .NET 9. It's like You're trying to do LTS? Yeah. Well it's You're trying to do LTS? Yeah. Well it's You're trying to do LTS? Yeah. Well it's whatever it's the GRPC .NET test base is whatever it's the GRPC .NET test base is whatever it's the GRPC .NET test base is Oh, okay. I think it doesn't really Oh, okay. I think it doesn't really Oh, okay. I think it doesn't really matter. matter. matter. It's just I don't want to have to deal It's just I don't want to have to deal It's just I don't want to have to deal with you know with you know with you know upstreaming this and going So here's the upstreaming this and going So here's the upstreaming this and going So here's the question though. We joke about how much question though. We joke about how much question though. We joke about how much frustration it is but it's still better frustration it is but it's still better frustration it is but it's still better than doing it yourself.

than doing it yourself. than doing it yourself. >> Oh there's no >> Oh there's no >> Oh there's no there's no like what it's done on this there's no like what it's done on this there's no like what it's done on this is like is like is like >> [gasps and sighs] >> [gasps and sighs] >> [gasps and sighs] >> absolutely mind-blowing. Okay. So even >> absolutely mind-blowing. Okay. So even >> absolutely mind-blowing. Okay. So even though it completely sucks you're into though it completely sucks you're into though it completely sucks you're into it. Even though it completely sucks it's it. Even though it completely sucks it's it. Even though it completely sucks it's the most amazing thing ever. Yeah, the most amazing thing ever. Yeah, the most amazing thing ever. Yeah, rocket ship. It is a rocket ship on my rocket ship. It is a rocket ship on my rocket ship. It is a rocket ship on my like just the so the .NET GRPC shared like just the so the .NET GRPC shared like just the so the .NET GRPC shared memory transport with everything that memory transport with everything that memory transport with everything that I've got into it in it. Like I said I've got into it in it. Like I said I've got into it in it. Like I said tests, benchmarks, and then examples tests, benchmarks, and then examples tests, benchmarks, and then examples supporting all the extraneous GRPC supporting all the extraneous GRPC supporting all the extraneous GRPC features. features. features. And basically a And basically a And basically a um um um I mean I started at calendar time a I mean I started at calendar time a I mean I started at calendar time a month ago but it's been month ago but it's been month ago but it's been a fraction a very tiny fraction of my a fraction a very tiny fraction of my a fraction a very tiny fraction of my overall time has been spent on it. So overall time has been spent on it. So overall time has been spent on it. So like how many like man-hours? like how many like man-hours? like how many like man-hours? Uh Uh Uh 30 40? 30 40? 30 40? Not even that. Not even that. Not even that. Seriously? Seriously? Seriously? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. This is like 6 months of disappearing This is like 6 months of disappearing This is like 6 months of disappearing into Walden Pond going up and getting a into Walden Pond going up and getting a into Walden Pond going up and getting a cabin and you come back down with a GRPC cabin and you come back down with a GRPC cabin and you come back down with a GRPC >> what the maintainers estimated it would >> what the maintainers estimated it would >> what the maintainers estimated it would take.

take. take. 6 months of isolation. 6 months of isolation. 6 months of isolation. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And you did it in a week. A couple Less And you did it in a week. A couple Less And you did it in a week. A couple Less than that. I mean Now how close is it? Here's the Now how close is it? Here's the question. Is it asymptotically question. Is it asymptotically question. Is it asymptotically approaching done but can never finish? approaching done but can never finish? approaching done but can never finish? Uh that's the that's a good question. I Uh that's the that's a good question. I Uh that's the that's a good question. I don't know yet. So I'm meeting with the don't know yet. So I'm meeting with the don't know yet. So I'm meeting with the .NET maintainer .NET maintainer .NET maintainer um who you know well. um who you know well. um who you know well. You mean King? Yeah. You mean King? Yeah. You mean King? Yeah. Love that guy. Just a joy. Love that guy. Just a joy. Love that guy. Just a joy. So he's so I just shared the repo with So he's so I just shared the repo with So he's so I just shared the repo with him today and he's also like hey you're him today and he's also like hey you're him today and he's also like hey you're uh what did he he point out? uh what did he he point out? uh what did he he point out? >> He's going to go and find something >> He's going to go and find something >> He's going to go and find something commented out and he's going to be like commented out and he's going to be like commented out and he's going to be like what are you doing here man? Yeah. what are you doing here man? Yeah. what are you doing here man? Yeah. He had a idea. He had a idea. He had a idea. Uh he said like Uh he said like Uh he said like he's the current .NET he's the current .NET he's the current .NET Uh he said something about .NET Uh he said something about .NET Uh he said something about .NET targeting. He's like it needs to target targeting. He's like it needs to target targeting. He's like it needs to target .NET 10 and I thought it did. .NET 10 and I thought it did. .NET 10 and I thought it did. So anyway He'll fix it. He knows So anyway He'll fix it. He knows So anyway He'll fix it. He knows everything. everything. everything. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But the question is can these things But the question is can these things But the question is can these things ever be done? ever be done? ever be done? I think they can. I mean like I think they can. I mean like I think they can. I mean like look look look I've a I've not written a line of code.

I've a I've not written a line of code. I've a I've not written a line of code. I've done a lot of looking at code and I've done a lot of looking at code and I've done a lot of looking at code and looking at results and looking at at By looking at results and looking at at By looking at results and looking at at By the way the way the way going back to one of our earlier maybe going back to one of our earlier maybe going back to one of our earlier maybe might even be a year ago 6 months plus might even be a year ago 6 months plus might even be a year ago 6 months plus months ago we're talking about months ago we're talking about months ago we're talking about which models we like. which models we like. which models we like. And the models that I really like are And the models that I really like are And the models that I really like are the ones that are giving you their the ones that are giving you their the ones that are giving you their thinking out loud as they're doing it thinking out loud as they're doing it thinking out loud as they're doing it because I can because I can because I can immediately spot when it's going ooh immediately spot when it's going ooh immediately spot when it's going ooh wait there's a hang at 32 meg. wait there's a hang at 32 meg. wait there's a hang at 32 meg. It's like there's a hang at 32 meg. Let It's like there's a hang at 32 meg. Let It's like there's a hang at 32 meg. Let me avoid let me cut that out. I like me avoid let me cut that out. I like me avoid let me cut that out. I like watching Opus think and I'm frustrated watching Opus think and I'm frustrated watching Opus think and I'm frustrated that Codex will say nothing for 20 that Codex will say nothing for 20 that Codex will say nothing for 20 minutes. And neither Gemini will won't minutes. And neither Gemini will won't minutes. And neither Gemini will won't either and I'm like what the hell are either and I'm like what the hell are either and I'm like what the hell are you doing? Like And you know open claw you doing? Like And you know open claw you doing? Like And you know open claw Pete who wrote open claw you know clawed Pete who wrote open claw you know clawed Pete who wrote open claw you know clawed is at the core of open clawed but the is at the core of open clawed but the is at the core of open clawed but the whole thing's written in Codex and he whole thing's written in Codex and he whole thing's written in Codex and he swears by Codex. He's like I would not swears by Codex. He's like I would not swears by Codex. He's like I would not he will not write code with Opus. he will not write code with Opus. he will not write code with Opus. >> But I'm telling you open claw from a >> But I'm telling you open claw from a >> But I'm telling you open claw from a complexity perspective is I think a lot complexity perspective is I think a lot complexity perspective is I think a lot simpler than some of these things that simpler than some of these things that simpler than some of these things that I'm working on. I think it's it's it's I'm working on. I think it's it's it's I'm working on. I think it's it's it's sprawling but not complex. It's got a sprawling but not complex. It's got a sprawling but not complex. It's got a lot of state because there's 50 11 lot of state because there's 50 11 lot of state because there's 50 11 booleans and he'll say himself on booleans and he'll say himself on booleans and he'll say himself on Twitter that there's a ton of edge Twitter that there's a ton of edge Twitter that there's a ton of edge cases. Like he's just spending time cases. Like he's just spending time cases. Like he's just spending time doing whack-a-mole on all these weird doing whack-a-mole on all these weird doing whack-a-mole on all these weird edge cases that he's never going to hit.

edge cases that he's never going to hit. edge cases that he's never going to hit. But the essence of what it's trying to But the essence of what it's trying to But the essence of what it's trying to accomplish is not rocket surgery. It's a accomplish is not rocket surgery. It's a accomplish is not rocket surgery. It's a community that he's built. community that he's built. community that he's built. >> Well so But I think it's interesting >> Well so But I think it's interesting >> Well so But I think it's interesting though that he he really likes the and though that he he really likes the and though that he he really likes the and then he he we had him on the podcast. He then he he we had him on the podcast. He then he he we had him on the podcast. He was saying that watching it was saying that watching it was saying that watching it a think and then he fed the thinking a think and then he fed the thinking a think and then he fed the thinking back into itself. So now it knows he can back into itself. So now it knows he can back into itself. So now it knows he can see it's thinking. see it's thinking. see it's thinking. And it started to have like a little And it started to have like a little And it started to have like a little panic attack cuz it's like panic attack cuz it's like panic attack cuz it's like >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> he he he can the user like I'm thinking >> he he he can the user like I'm thinking >> he he he can the user like I'm thinking about like Tron you know like the user about like Tron you know like the user about like Tron you know like the user can see that I am thinking. can see that I am thinking. can see that I am thinking. >> Yeah. Well I see it while it's thinking >> Yeah. Well I see it while it's thinking >> Yeah. Well I see it while it's thinking is the user wants me to write the make is the user wants me to write the make is the user wants me to write the make the benchmark work at 32 megabytes. I the benchmark work at 32 megabytes. I the benchmark work at 32 megabytes. I wonder I wonder if it this is the part wonder I wonder if it this is the part wonder I wonder if it this is the part like you're talking to yourself in the like you're talking to yourself in the like you're talking to yourself in the mirror. You're talking to a parrot who's mirror. You're talking to a parrot who's mirror. You're talking to a parrot who's also talking to itself in the mirror. also talking to itself in the mirror. also talking to itself in the mirror. >> Yeah. Cuz thinking tokens >> Yeah. Cuz thinking tokens >> Yeah. Cuz thinking tokens and reasoning tokens and doing tokens and reasoning tokens and doing tokens and reasoning tokens and doing tokens are all different kind of things. are all different kind of things. are all different kind of things. Is it is it emergent or is it just Is it is it emergent or is it just Is it is it emergent or is it just No I think it's just trained on human No I think it's just trained on human No I think it's just trained on human trained on us Yeah. having an inner trained on us Yeah. having an inner trained on us Yeah. having an inner monologue. monologue. monologue. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. By the way today it's much like the By the way today it's much like the By the way today it's much like the show. Today I I had a I'm working also show. Today I I had a I'm working also show. Today I I had a I'm working also on on on something that is is like a it's something that is is like a it's something that is is like a it's basically um basically um basically um I think the the another one of those I think the the another one of those I think the the another one of those cases of a problem that is cases of a problem that is cases of a problem that is that is that is that is beyond the frontier right now and that's beyond the frontier right now and that's beyond the frontier right now and that's a panorama screenshot capability which a panorama screenshot capability which a panorama screenshot capability which I'm building into ZoomIt where you can I'm building into ZoomIt where you can I'm building into ZoomIt where you can select the region of the screen and then select the region of the screen and then select the region of the screen and then scroll underneath the region while it's scroll underneath the region while it's scroll underneath the region while it's capturing frames that then stitches capturing frames that then stitches capturing frames that then stitches together to take the scroll area and

together to take the scroll area and together to take the scroll area and create create create >> Oh yeah. composite image. Yeah we yeah. >> Oh yeah. composite image. Yeah we yeah. >> Oh yeah. composite image. Yeah we yeah. Stitching. Yeah there's a thing on Stitching. Yeah there's a thing on Stitching. Yeah there's a thing on iPhone called Taylor. So iPhone called Taylor. So iPhone called Taylor. So >> to have a certain amount of of >> to have a certain amount of of >> to have a certain amount of of Yeah. uh overlap. Yeah. uh overlap. Yeah. uh overlap. >> Well it turns out that this is an >> Well it turns out that this is an >> Well it turns out that this is an NP-hard problem. No. Yeah. NP-hard problem. No. Yeah. NP-hard problem. No. Yeah. >> Are you serious? It sounds so easy. >> Are you serious? It sounds so easy. >> Are you serious? It sounds so easy. >> It is really really hard. >> It is really really hard. >> It is really really hard. Because Because Because the the the when you're looking at the frames the when you're looking at the frames the when you're looking at the frames the the system doesn't know the system doesn't know the system doesn't know how much each frame how much each frame how much each frame scrolled. scrolled. scrolled. Oh okay. So it's just got to it's got to Oh okay. So it's just got to it's got to Oh okay. So it's just got to it's got to go a pixel at a time until it lines up. go a pixel at a time until it lines up. go a pixel at a time until it lines up. >> that's way too inefficient. And by the >> that's way too inefficient. And by the >> that's way too inefficient. And by the way pixel at a time doesn't even really way pixel at a time doesn't even really way pixel at a time doesn't even really reliably work because if you take a look reliably work because if you take a look reliably work because if you take a look Can you kind of bubble sort it and kind Can you kind of bubble sort it and kind Can you kind of bubble sort it and kind of just bisect it? Well it's actually of just bisect it? Well it's actually of just bisect it? Well it's actually here here's why you can't even do pixel here here's why you can't even do pixel here here's why you can't even do pixel matching. You've got to use something matching. You've got to use something matching. You've got to use something that approximates it like what they call that approximates it like what they call that approximates it like what they call luma which is looking at the brightness luma which is looking at the brightness luma which is looking at the brightness of pixels and seeing how much overlap of pixels and seeing how much overlap of pixels and seeing how much overlap there is. there is. there is. Because if you take a look at clear type Because if you take a look at clear type Because if you take a look at clear type having a character on that's starts at having a character on that's starts at having a character on that's starts at offset Y offset uh-huh.

offset Y offset uh-huh. offset Y offset uh-huh. You shift it to Y offset 101 and You shift it to Y offset 101 and You shift it to Y offset 101 and suddenly the colors and pixels all suddenly the colors and pixels all suddenly the colors and pixels all change. change. change. Well depending on if you're going left Well depending on if you're going left Well depending on if you're going left or right because if you're going left or or right because if you're going left or or right because if you're going left or right then you're going to use subpixel right then you're going to use subpixel right then you're going to use subpixel aliasing across RGB cuz most monitors aliasing across RGB cuz most monitors aliasing across RGB cuz most monitors are RGB and people don't people don't are RGB and people don't people don't are RGB and people don't people don't think about that. That you've got a red think about that. That you've got a red think about that. That you've got a red pixel a green pixel and a blue pixel. pixel a green pixel and a blue pixel. pixel a green pixel and a blue pixel. And if you want to you know like make And if you want to you know like make And if you want to you know like make the outside of a of a C a little bit the outside of a of a C a little bit the outside of a of a C a little bit there you'll you'll make it red over there you'll you'll make it red over there you'll you'll make it red over here. That's all Bill Hill's early here. That's all Bill Hill's early here. That's all Bill Hill's early TrueType work. So you're right you shift TrueType work. So you're right you shift TrueType work. So you're right you shift that thing one subpixel to the right. that thing one subpixel to the right. that thing one subpixel to the right. It's going to shift from that affect It's going to shift from that affect It's going to shift from that affect your horizontal stitches. But vertical your horizontal stitches. But vertical your horizontal stitches. But vertical it it also changes colors. it it also changes colors. it it also changes colors. >> Vertical changes as well. So Oh wow. >> Vertical changes as well. So Oh wow. >> Vertical changes as well. So Oh wow. Okay. Okay. Okay. Because of compression and So how does Because of compression and So how does Because of compression and So how does it how does my iPhone do it so it how does my iPhone do it so it how does my iPhone do it so delightfully and easily? delightfully and easily? delightfully and easily? >> Because they know because you're on your >> Because they know because you're on your >> Because they know because you're on your iPhone you have to use the iPhone to iPhone you have to use the iPhone to iPhone you have to use the iPhone to scroll. So it knows exactly how much scroll. So it knows exactly how much scroll. So it knows exactly how much each frame shifted. So I use an app on the iPhone called So I use an app on the iPhone called Taylor you should look at and you just Taylor you should look at and you just Taylor you should look at and you just take three screenshots.

take three screenshots. take three screenshots. Screenshot scroll screenshot scroll Screenshot scroll screenshot scroll Screenshot scroll screenshot scroll screenshot show and then it stitches screenshot show and then it stitches screenshot show and then it stitches them together and it'll go and do it them together and it'll go and do it them together and it'll go and do it dynamically. They'll go dynamically. They'll go dynamically. They'll go boop boop boop. And then maybe I should boop boop boop. And then maybe I should boop boop boop. And then maybe I should do because I'm maybe I'm doing It may be do because I'm maybe I'm doing It may be do because I'm maybe I'm doing It may be simpler. There may be an 80/20 rule. simpler. There may be an 80/20 rule. simpler. There may be an 80/20 rule. Yeah I think you're right. I just Yeah I think you're right. I just Yeah I think you're right. I just thought it'd be nice just to be able to thought it'd be nice just to be able to thought it'd be nice just to be able to scroll and then have it automatically scroll and then have it automatically scroll and then have it automatically >> No I think it'd be great. I think it'd >> No I think it'd be great. I think it'd >> No I think it'd be great. I think it'd be great but like Edge does this be great but like Edge does this be great but like Edge does this automatically. They have like Edge full automatically. They have like Edge full automatically. They have like Edge full page screenshots. I think they do it page screenshots. I think they do it page screenshots. I think they do it because they have the entire viewport because they have the entire viewport because they have the entire viewport available. available. available. >> They do and they know how much you're >> They do and they know how much you're >> They do and they know how much you're scrolling whatever. I think I think the scrolling whatever. I think I think the scrolling whatever. I think I think the challenge here is that challenge here is that challenge here is that >> they're they're rendering the whole >> they're they're rendering the whole >> they're they're rendering the whole viewport off screen and just viewport off screen and just viewport off screen and just >> Off screen right. I would argue that >> Off screen right. I would argue that >> Off screen right. I would argue that you're doing it right which is you want you're doing it right which is you want you're doing it right which is you want to make it perfect and I bet you that to make it perfect and I bet you that to make it perfect and I bet you that the 80/20 rule would mean you could put the 80/20 rule would mean you could put the 80/20 rule would mean you could put much much much effort into this. much much much effort into this. much much much effort into this. >> Well I'm already so far into this now >> Well I'm already so far into this now >> Well I'm already so far into this now You're never let it go. You've been nerd You're never let it go. You've been nerd You're never let it go. You've been nerd sniped. Yeah, I have been. I've been sniped. Yeah, I have been. I've been sniped. Yeah, I have been. I've been I've spent a week on this. I've spent a week on this. I've spent a week on this. This is probably I spend as I I spend as This is probably I spend as I I spend as This is probably I spend as I I spend as much time on this as .NET shared memory much time on this as .NET shared memory much time on this as .NET shared memory Jeremy C. I would be careful because the Jeremy C. I would be careful because the Jeremy C. I would be careful because the problem with these kind of problems that problem with these kind of problems that problem with these kind of problems that you'll go and you'll do a whole thing you'll go and you'll do a whole thing you'll go and you'll do a whole thing and then you'll stick it up on Hacker and then you'll stick it up on Hacker and then you'll stick it up on Hacker News and someone in the broke someone in News and someone in the broke someone in News and someone in the broke someone in the chat can be like, "Wait."

the chat can be like, "Wait." the chat can be like, "Wait." Here's a for loop to do it for you in Here's a for loop to do it for you in Here's a for loop to do it for you in Python. Yeah, or they'll be like, "I Python. Yeah, or they'll be like, "I Python. Yeah, or they'll be like, "I just tried to capture this image and it just tried to capture this image and it just tried to capture this image and it and it failed." and it failed." and it failed." How often By the way, I don't know if How often By the way, I don't know if How often By the way, I don't know if this is two shows. Now, this is probably this is two shows. Now, this is probably this is two shows. Now, this is probably two shows. Maybe this is part one and two shows. Maybe this is part one and two shows. Maybe this is part one and part two cuz we need to wrap it up. But part two cuz we need to wrap it up. But part two cuz we need to wrap it up. But do have you done the cross model do have you done the cross model do have you done the cross model review? review? review? >> Uh no. And I don't You got to try that. >> Uh no. And I don't You got to try that. >> Uh no. And I don't You got to try that. >> I don't I don't see a good occasion for >> I don't I don't see a good occasion for >> I don't I don't see a good occasion for that. You know what I do is I just like that. You know what I do is I just like that. You know what I do is I just like when I see it flailing, I'll just switch when I see it flailing, I'll just switch when I see it flailing, I'll just switch models and be like, "Okay, that one." models and be like, "Okay, that one." models and be like, "Okay, that one." >> I want you to try this. Give me Give me >> I want you to try this. Give me Give me >> I want you to try this. Give me Give me your your RPC thing. Yeah. And what I'll your your RPC thing. Yeah. And what I'll your your RPC thing. Yeah. And what I'll do is I'll run it and you can go into do is I'll run it and you can go into do is I'll run it and you can go into GitHub Copilot CLI and say, "Codex and GitHub Copilot CLI and say, "Codex and GitHub Copilot CLI and say, "Codex and Opus, you both do separate ones and then Opus, you both do separate ones and then Opus, you both do separate ones and then I want you to coalesce on the top five I want you to coalesce on the top five I want you to coalesce on the top five issues that you both agree on and then issues that you both agree on and then issues that you both agree on and then argue between each other how you think argue between each other how you think argue between each other how you think you should fix you should fix you should fix It's delightful. Uh I I mean, the how to It's delightful. Uh I I mean, the how to It's delightful. Uh I I mean, the how to fix it thing I fix it thing I fix it thing I I don't think that's the problem. It's I don't think that's the problem. It's I don't think that's the problem. It's execution of the fix. But here's what I execution of the fix. But here's what I execution of the fix. But here's what I wish I I could do.

wish I I could do. wish I I could do. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Um is go into GitHub Copilot, Um is go into GitHub Copilot, Um is go into GitHub Copilot, give the same prompt and have it fire give the same prompt and have it fire give the same prompt and have it fire off against both models at the same off against both models at the same off against both models at the same time. time. time. And then I could see when they're done, And then I could see when they're done, And then I could see when they're done, I could pick one. You know how I could pick one. You know how I could pick one. You know how the one that I want. the one that I want. the one that I want. >> Yeah, so we have that with /review. >> Yeah, so we have that with /review. >> Yeah, so we have that with /review. No, no, I don't want a review. It's like No, no, I don't want a review. It's like No, no, I don't want a review. It's like each one like Oh, you want it to fight? each one like Oh, you want it to fight? each one like Oh, you want it to fight? Like go off and shout? Like go off and shout? Like go off and shout? >> Not even fight. I want them >> Not even fight. I want them >> Not even fight. I want them independently doing the same thing. Oh, independently doing the same thing. Oh, independently doing the same thing. Oh, okay. And that way I can I can at you okay. And that way I can I can at you okay. And that way I can I can at you know, they get to a certain point I can know, they get to a certain point I can know, they get to a certain point I can be like, "That one I don't is off the be like, "That one I don't is off the be like, "That one I don't is off the rails." rails." rails." >> Yeah, like you know when you're in >> Yeah, like you know when you're in >> Yeah, like you know when you're in ChatGPT and it'll like split sometimes. ChatGPT and it'll like split sometimes. ChatGPT and it'll like split sometimes. >> the one you like. I just want to be able >> the one you like. I just want to be able >> the one you like. I just want to be able to say, "Hey, give this to 46 and 53." to say, "Hey, give this to 46 and 53." to say, "Hey, give this to 46 and 53." >> I can write that. Yeah. >> I can write that. Yeah. >> I can write that. Yeah. I can do that with work trees. Yeah, I can do that with work trees. Yeah, I can do that with work trees. Yeah, that's what I want because that way I'm that's what I want because that way I'm that's what I want because that way I'm like like like getting the best getting the best getting the best >> this. >> this. >> this. Battle. Model battle. Okay. Battle. Model battle. Okay. Battle. Model battle. Okay. >> I think now you're nerd sniping me. I'm >> I think now you're nerd sniping me. I'm >> I think now you're nerd sniping me. I'm going to spend a week on this. Gosh darn going to spend a week on this. Gosh darn going to spend a week on this. Gosh darn it. By the way, what's going on with the it. By the way, what's going on with the it. By the way, what's going on with the terminal integration that I asked for?

terminal integration that I asked for? terminal integration that I asked for? Oh, yeah. I can't tell you on this show. Oh, yeah. I can't tell you on this show. Oh, yeah. I can't tell you on this show. Why not? Why not? Why not? >> But I can tell you when we stop. Wow, >> But I can tell you when we stop. Wow, >> But I can tell you when we stop. Wow, that's mysterious. that's mysterious. that's mysterious. >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> That's good. >> That's good. >> That's good. It'll The terminal's just going to keep It'll The terminal's just going to keep It'll The terminal's just going to keep getting better. There's a lot of really getting better. There's a lot of really getting better. There's a lot of really exciting stuff happening with the exciting stuff happening with the exciting stuff happening with the terminal. The TUI is having a moment terminal. The TUI is having a moment terminal. The TUI is having a moment right now and it's very exciting. Yeah, right now and it's very exciting. Yeah, right now and it's very exciting. Yeah, you know that I'm not a TUI fan, but I you know that I'm not a TUI fan, but I you know that I'm not a TUI fan, but I know you're not a TUI fan, but the TUI know you're not a TUI fan, but the TUI know you're not a TUI fan, but the TUI will rise again, my friend. A TUI is will rise again, my friend. A TUI is will rise again, my friend. A TUI is just a crappy GUI. just a crappy GUI. just a crappy GUI. >> [laughter] >> What can you do with a TUI that you >> What can you do with a TUI that you can't do with a GUI, Tommy? can't do with a GUI, Tommy? can't do with a GUI, Tommy? Uh ASCII art. Uh ASCII art. Uh ASCII art. You can do that with a GUI, too. You can do that with a GUI, too. You can do that with a GUI, too. Yeah, but then it looks weird cuz it's Yeah, but then it looks weird cuz it's Yeah, but then it looks weird cuz it's like in Courier New or something. I like in Courier New or something. I like in Courier New or something. I don't know. don't know. don't know. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> I just I love a TUI. I just love a TUI. >> I just I love a TUI. I just love a TUI. >> I just I love a TUI. I just love a TUI. I love a bulletin board. I love a bulletin board. I love a bulletin board. Is there uh I just don't get it. I just don't get it. I don't I don't I don't I don't get why some of your uh I don't get why some of your uh I don't get why some of your uh your Sysinternals tools don't have dark your Sysinternals tools don't have dark your Sysinternals tools don't have dark mode, but uh we can't have everything we mode, but uh we can't have everything we mode, but uh we can't have everything we want, can't we? Which one? want, can't we? Which one? want, can't we? Which one? What was I in? I was in something a What was I in? I was in something a What was I in? I was in something a couple of days. Was it Sysmon?

couple of days. Was it Sysmon? couple of days. Was it Sysmon? Sysmon's not mine. Sysmon's not mine. Sysmon's not mine. >> not Sysmon. It's not one of yours. The >> not Sysmon. It's not one of yours. The >> not Sysmon. It's not one of yours. The other problem with you is that sometimes other problem with you is that sometimes other problem with you is that sometimes I'll be in a Windows tool Yeah. and I'll I'll be in a Windows tool Yeah. and I'll I'll be in a Windows tool Yeah. and I'll be like, "Oh, Russinovich." I'm like, be like, "Oh, Russinovich." I'm like, be like, "Oh, Russinovich." I'm like, "No, that's not even his thing. That's "No, that's not even his thing. That's "No, that's not even his thing. That's like like like >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> That ship with Windows. Oh, speaking of >> That ship with Windows. Oh, speaking of >> That ship with Windows. Oh, speaking of shipping with Windows, we should end on shipping with Windows, we should end on shipping with Windows, we should end on that. Sysmon ship with Windows? that. Sysmon ship with Windows? that. Sysmon ship with Windows? Huh? It's out in the insider ring. Huh? It's out in the insider ring. Huh? It's out in the insider ring. Very exciting. Very exciting. Very exciting. >> Yeah, huge huge milestone. You know, um >> Yeah, huge huge milestone. You know, um >> Yeah, huge huge milestone. You know, um that's my first code in Windows. I think that's my first code in Windows. I think that's my first code in Windows. I think I have. I have. I have. >> "Finally, you've actually arrived." >> "Finally, you've actually arrived." >> "Finally, you've actually arrived." Finally, Finally, Finally, >> people will know your name. 20 years >> people will know your name. 20 years >> people will know your name. 20 years after joining Microsoft, I've coded in after joining Microsoft, I've coded in after joining Microsoft, I've coded in Windows. You shipped something in Windows. You shipped something in Windows. You shipped something in Windows. Windows. Windows. It's pretty exciting. It's pretty exciting. It's pretty exciting. >> Yeah. You going to get a patent cube? >> Yeah. You going to get a patent cube? >> Yeah. You going to get a patent cube? I've got a few. Not for There's no I've got a few. Not for There's no I've got a few. Not for There's no patent on that. Thanks for Thanks for patent on that. Thanks for Thanks for patent on that. Thanks for Thanks for watching. watching. watching. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for watching Scott and Mark learn Thanks for watching Scott and Mark learn Thanks for watching Scott and Mark learn to One of these days we'll learn to have to One of these days we'll learn to have to One of these days we'll learn to have a show of an appropriate length and a show of an appropriate length and a show of an appropriate length and we'll remember to stop and and set up we'll remember to stop and and set up we'll remember to stop and and set up for the next show. But we appreciate you for the next show. But we appreciate you for the next show. But we appreciate you and if you make it this far If you made and if you make it this far If you made and if you make it this far If you made it this far, it this far, it this far, go to the comments. Smash Smash the go to the comments. Smash Smash the go to the comments. Smash Smash the subscribe button. I've learned that subscribe button. I've learned that subscribe button. I've learned that that's what you're supposed to say now.

that's what you're supposed to say now. that's what you're supposed to say now. Smash that bell. Smash that bell. Smash that bell. Like and subscribe. We need to also talk Like and subscribe. We need to also talk Like and subscribe. We need to also talk talk about chat. talk about chat. talk about chat. You refer to the chat. You can Hey chat, You refer to the chat. You can Hey chat, You refer to the chat. You can Hey chat, are you watching, chat? What do you are you watching, chat? What do you are you watching, chat? What do you think about this, chat? think about this, chat? think about this, chat? That's the people in the chat. Yeah, we That's the people in the chat. Yeah, we That's the people in the chat. Yeah, we for the live ones. For the live ones. We for the live ones. For the live ones. We for the live ones. For the live ones. We should do live ones. We should do a live should do live ones. We should do a live should do live ones. We should do a live one. Can we do that? one. Can we do that? one. Can we do that? >> Yeah. Pretty pretty sure, Rob. Can we do a Pretty pretty sure, Rob. Can we do a live one? You can just do stuff. No one can tell You can just do stuff. No one can tell you you're a bad person. you you're a bad person. you you're a bad person. >> do a live one. I can do anything I want. >> do a live one. I can do anything I want. >> do a live one. I can do anything I want. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay, live episode. We're going to do Okay, live episode. We're going to do Okay, live episode. We're going to do one. one. one. This is going to be very exciting and This is going to be very exciting and This is going to be very exciting and then we can talk to the chat on Twitch then we can talk to the chat on Twitch then we can talk to the chat on Twitch and YouTube. and YouTube. and YouTube. >> Let's do some giveaways to encourage >> Let's do some giveaways to encourage >> Let's do some giveaways to encourage people to come and watch live. Well, I people to come and watch live. Well, I people to come and watch live. Well, I love that idea. Maybe we can get an love that idea. Maybe we can get an love that idea. Maybe we can get an Xbox. Yeah. Or a Band. They still make Xbox. Yeah. Or a Band. They still make Xbox. Yeah. Or a Band. They still make Xboxes? Xboxes? Xboxes? >> Or a Zune. >> Or a Zune. >> Or a Zune. Too soon? Too soon? Too soon? >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> You can't say that. Take that out. >> You can't say that. Take that out. >> You can't say that. Take that out. Take that out. We'll give away a Band Take that out. We'll give away a Band Take that out. We'll give away a Band and a Zune.

and a Zune. and a Zune. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Yeah, that's really useful. >> Yeah, that's really useful. >> Yeah, that's really useful. Hey, I I worked very Hey, I I worked very Hey, I I worked very >> Only if it's the Zune that was on >> Only if it's the Zune that was on >> Only if it's the Zune that was on Guardians of the Galaxy, then that would Guardians of the Galaxy, then that would Guardians of the Galaxy, then that would screen you. screen you. screen you. Was it Was it on it on in the movie? Was it Was it on it on in the movie? Was it Was it on it on in the movie? That one? That one? That one? Uh this one may have been in the movie. Uh this one may have been in the movie. Uh this one may have been in the movie. There were like They were like 10. Yeah. There were like They were like 10. Yeah. There were like They were like 10. Yeah. There were a lot of Zunes. There were a lot of Zunes. There were a lot of Zunes. >> People would like that if it was in the >> People would like that if it was in the >> People would like that if it was in the movie. Yeah. I'd [clears throat] have to movie. Yeah. I'd [clears throat] have to movie. Yeah. I'd [clears throat] have to Yeah, this None of these are written. I Yeah, this None of these are written. I Yeah, this None of these are written. I probably I don't know where those are. probably I don't know where those are. probably I don't know where those are. Some of They're probably in someone's Some of They're probably in someone's Some of They're probably in someone's very nice gentleman I worked with down very nice gentleman I worked with down very nice gentleman I worked with down there [music] probably has those all. there [music] probably has those all. there [music] probably has those all. But a couple of these have the Guardians But a couple of these have the Guardians But a couple of these have the Guardians playlist loaded on them. playlist loaded on them. playlist loaded on them. I need to charge the batteries. I need to charge the batteries. I need to charge the batteries. All right, [music] like and subscribe. All right, [music] like and subscribe. All right, [music] like and subscribe. Smash that bell. We appreciate you. I Smash that bell. We appreciate you. I Smash that bell. We appreciate you. I think we said last time to stay until think we said last time to stay until think we said last time to stay until the end [music] and like a bunch of the end [music] and like a bunch of the end [music] and like a bunch of people were like, "Stay till the end?" people were like, "Stay till the end?" people were like, "Stay till the end?" Yeah, that was great. I loved seeing Yeah, that was great. I loved seeing Yeah, that was great. I loved seeing that. that. that. >> that. That was awesome. I love people >> that. That was awesome. I love people >> that. That was awesome. I love people like that. Thank you very much. like that. Thank you very much. like that. Thank you very much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.