Next steps for Open Sauced with Brian Douglas

hi I'm Scott Hanselman this is another hi I'm Scott Hanselman this is another episode of Hansel minutes today I'm episode of Hansel minutes today I'm episode of Hansel minutes today I'm chatting with Brian Douglas he the chatting with Brian Douglas he the chatting with Brian Douglas he the founder of open sace former GitHub founder of open sace former GitHub founder of open sace former GitHub employee how are you sir uh I'm doing employee how are you sir uh I'm doing employee how are you sir uh I'm doing well yeah it's a wonderful day in well yeah it's a wonderful day in well yeah it's a wonderful day in Oakland wonderful day in Oakland Oakland wonderful day in Oakland Oakland wonderful day in Oakland fantastic um so you are uh a well-known fantastic um so you are uh a well-known fantastic um so you are uh a well-known open- Source Advocate you've been in the open- Source Advocate you've been in the open- Source Advocate you've been in the open source space for many years you are open source space for many years you are open source space for many years you are both uh in front of the camera and both uh in front of the camera and both uh in front of the camera and behind the scenes quietly pushing open behind the scenes quietly pushing open behind the scenes quietly pushing open source why is that such a passion for source why is that such a passion for source why is that such a passion for you because you do a lot of stuff that you because you do a lot of stuff that you because you do a lot of stuff that you don't talk about to support open you don't talk about to support open you don't talk about to support open source quietly on your own yeah uh I I source quietly on your own yeah uh I I source quietly on your own yeah uh I I mean I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for mean I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for mean I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for open source um so open source is the open source um so open source is the open source um so open source is the reason why I learned how to code while reason why I learned how to code while reason why I learned how to code while getting my MBA um at this point 11 years getting my MBA um at this point 11 years getting my MBA um at this point 11 years ago man it's uh yeah my 11 so 11 years ago man it's uh yeah my 11 so 11 years ago man it's uh yeah my 11 so 11 years ago and uh if it yeah so basically I ago and uh if it yeah so basically I ago and uh if it yeah so basically I love making myself involved having love making myself involved having love making myself involved having conversations with folk I was just conversations with folk I was just conversations with folk I was just chatting with the a foundation lead of chatting with the a foundation lead of chatting with the a foundation lead of risk five which I have no no not a lot risk five which I have no no not a lot risk five which I have no no not a lot of context of uh but I was just sitting of context of uh but I was just sitting of context of uh but I was just sitting down learning about their situation what down learning about their situation what down learning about their situation what their goals are and it's fun to find out their goals are and it's fun to find out their goals are and it's fun to find out humans behind code that that's like the humans behind code that that's like the humans behind code that that's like the the number one goal you worked at GitHub the number one goal you worked at GitHub the number one goal you worked at GitHub for almost 5 years doing developer ad for almost 5 years doing developer ad for almost 5 years doing developer ad advocacy and uh and Outreach you were advocacy and uh and Outreach you were advocacy and uh and Outreach you were very visible and then you left and it very visible and then you left and it very visible and then you left and it seems like you left because you wanted seems like you left because you wanted seems like you left because you wanted to make a thing that they didn't want to to make a thing that they didn't want to to make a thing that they didn't want to make is that a fair statement yeah I make is that a fair statement yeah I make is that a fair statement yeah I mean that that's pretty fair and I would mean that that's pretty fair and I would mean that that's pretty fair and I would say well actually if I could correct say well actually if I could correct say well actually if I could correct that GitHub did want to make it they

that GitHub did want to make it they that GitHub did want to make it they giab tried to make stuff like Open sauce giab tried to make stuff like Open sauce giab tried to make stuff like Open sauce uh a couple times and I think timing um uh a couple times and I think timing um uh a couple times and I think timing um was just not there for them and it was was just not there for them and it was was just not there for them and it was also trying to attach it to a business also trying to attach it to a business also trying to attach it to a business use case uh was also not there so I saw use case uh was also not there so I saw use case uh was also not there so I saw opportunity to build Open sauce which opportunity to build Open sauce which opportunity to build Open sauce which was essentially GitHub insights but was essentially GitHub insights but was essentially GitHub insights but better uh if I could say that and the better uh if I could say that and the better uh if I could say that and the idea was like just take all the data idea was like just take all the data idea was like just take all the data that happens in the GitHub repo and tell that happens in the GitHub repo and tell that happens in the GitHub repo and tell some stories from it um so we ended up some stories from it um so we ended up some stories from it um so we ended up doing that pretty quickly uh after I doing that pretty quickly uh after I doing that pretty quickly uh after I left okay and Open sauce is what what left okay and Open sauce is what what left okay and Open sauce is what what does Open sauce do that GitHub does not does Open sauce do that GitHub does not does Open sauce do that GitHub does not currently do yeah so open sauce really currently do yeah so open sauce really currently do yeah so open sauce really just takes like uh you think of like a just takes like uh you think of like a just takes like uh you think of like a lot of folks who listen are involved lot of folks who listen are involved lot of folks who listen are involved with os are familiar with the GitHub with os are familiar with the GitHub with os are familiar with the GitHub archive uh AR this raw data and what we archive uh AR this raw data and what we archive uh AR this raw data and what we do is we grab the raw data but then we do is we grab the raw data but then we do is we grab the raw data but then we tell stories from it so there's a tool tell stories from it so there's a tool tell stories from it so there's a tool called Dev stats that the cncf threw called Dev stats that the cncf threw called Dev stats that the cncf threw together that inspired a lot of the together that inspired a lot of the together that inspired a lot of the stuff we did within the Open sauce repo stuff we did within the Open sauce repo stuff we did within the Open sauce repo Pages uh and it provides this high level Pages uh and it provides this high level Pages uh and it provides this high level death stats things like um Lottery death stats things like um Lottery death stats things like um Lottery Factor so the ability uh sorry the the Factor so the ability uh sorry the the Factor so the ability uh sorry the the ability really to go into a project and ability really to go into a project and ability really to go into a project and find out like how much of the ecosystems find out like how much of the ecosystems find out like how much of the ecosystems maintained by one or two people um so it maintained by one or two people um so it maintained by one or two people um so it would be a high water factor of one would be a high water factor of one would be a high water factor of one person do all the merging on the PRS uh person do all the merging on the PRS uh person do all the merging on the PRS uh but then we Al have other things like but then we Al have other things like but then we Al have other things like outside contributors so um to see what outside contributors so um to see what outside contributors so um to see what the level of uh contribution comes from the level of uh contribution comes from the level of uh contribution comes from outside the core team as well so how outside the core team as well so how outside the core team as well so how approachable uh and we called that approachable uh and we called that approachable uh and we called that confidence um confidence um confidence um internally and do why do you think they internally and do why do you think they internally and do why do you think they still have they made it yet they I feel still have they made it yet they I feel still have they made it yet they I feel like they still haven't made this level

like they still haven't made this level like they still haven't made this level of detail this is like a super dashboard of detail this is like a super dashboard of detail this is like a super dashboard for building a successful open source for building a successful open source for building a successful open source project and I don't feel like GTO hasn't project and I don't feel like GTO hasn't project and I don't feel like GTO hasn't made it yet yeah I mean so I I wrot a made it yet yeah I mean so I I wrot a made it yet yeah I mean so I I wrot a blog post about uh about this actually blog post about uh about this actually blog post about uh about this actually earlier January this year um and I'm earlier January this year um and I'm earlier January this year um and I'm going to blank on the title I'll look going to blank on the title I'll look going to blank on the title I'll look I'll look it up later for show notes but I'll look it up later for show notes but I'll look it up later for show notes but um uh it was really around GitHub solved um uh it was really around GitHub solved um uh it was really around GitHub solved a problem for developers to share and a problem for developers to share and a problem for developers to share and collaborative code the infrastructure collaborative code the infrastructure collaborative code the infrastructure wasn't really set up to build this type wasn't really set up to build this type wasn't really set up to build this type of tooling uh GI ups at a lot of like of tooling uh GI ups at a lot of like of tooling uh GI ups at a lot of like rebuilding infrastructure like actions rebuilding infrastructure like actions rebuilding infrastructure like actions right now is going to be rebuilt on go right now is going to be rebuilt on go right now is going to be rebuilt on go uh a lot of database stuff has been uh a lot of database stuff has been uh a lot of database stuff has been updated to expand this new level of updated to expand this new level of updated to expand this new level of GitHub that's ready for the Enterprise GitHub that's ready for the Enterprise GitHub that's ready for the Enterprise and and AI so I think they're ready to and and AI so I think they're ready to and and AI so I think they're ready to build something like this today but build something like this today but build something like this today but their Focus right now being co-pilot their Focus right now being co-pilot their Focus right now being co-pilot you've got to like spin it into like a you've got to like spin it into like a you've got to like spin it into like a we're building now this AI first we're building now this AI first we're building now this AI first platform which I think is really poised platform which I think is really poised platform which I think is really poised for GitHub today like having this for GitHub today like having this for GitHub today like having this knowledge in these Dev stats but also be knowledge in these Dev stats but also be knowledge in these Dev stats but also be able to do like vector search and pull able to do like vector search and pull able to do like vector search and pull up U like this these data stats or data up U like this these data stats or data up U like this these data stats or data science on demand like this is where the science on demand like this is where the science on demand like this is where the world is going um so I think github's world is going um so I think github's world is going um so I think github's more prepared today to build this will more prepared today to build this will more prepared today to build this will they build this in the next six months they build this in the next six months they build this in the next six months next 12 months um it's up for up for next 12 months um it's up for up for next 12 months um it's up for up for GitHub and their head a product to GitHub and their head a product to GitHub and their head a product to decide yeah you you came on this podcast decide yeah you you came on this podcast decide yeah you you came on this podcast about 200 episodes ago it was April of about 200 episodes ago it was April of about 200 episodes ago it was April of 2021 and you left GitHub about a year 2021 and you left GitHub about a year 2021 and you left GitHub about a year and a half later was this product was and a half later was this product was and a half later was this product was open sauc in your brain in April of open sauc in your brain in April of open sauc in your brain in April of 2021 yeah so open sawce actually 2017 is

2021 yeah so open sawce actually 2017 is 2021 yeah so open sawce actually 2017 is when I started fiddling around with this when I started fiddling around with this when I started fiddling around with this idea so I did a lot of Open Source idea so I did a lot of Open Source idea so I did a lot of Open Source contributions uh I was mainly in contributions uh I was mainly in contributions uh I was mainly in JavaScript at that point it was like JavaScript at that point it was like JavaScript at that point it was like react was kind of my main focus uh react react was kind of my main focus uh react react was kind of my main focus uh react native as well was like making native as well was like making native as well was like making contributions I think at one time I had contributions I think at one time I had contributions I think at one time I had 20 PRS opened um and like various 20 PRS opened um and like various 20 PRS opened um and like various different like templates and react different like templates and react different like templates and react libraries uh I built open sace as a CRM libraries uh I built open sace as a CRM libraries uh I built open sace as a CRM for my PRS I just wanted to see where my for my PRS I just wanted to see where my for my PRS I just wanted to see where my PRS were open and it didn't quite work PRS were open and it didn't quite work PRS were open and it didn't quite work on GitHub you had to use the API or use on GitHub you had to use the API or use on GitHub you had to use the API or use like some clever search few um which like some clever search few um which like some clever search few um which actually even back then it was kind of actually even back then it was kind of actually even back then it was kind of hard to do something to search uh for hard to do something to search uh for hard to do something to search uh for GitHub um so that was the original goal GitHub um so that was the original goal GitHub um so that was the original goal back in 2020 during the actually right back in 2020 during the actually right back in 2020 during the actually right before the pandemic I started live before the pandemic I started live before the pandemic I started live streaming uh every Friday uh and I just streaming uh every Friday uh and I just streaming uh every Friday uh and I just wanted to use GitHub tools in the open wanted to use GitHub tools in the open wanted to use GitHub tools in the open in public but I needed something to show in public but I needed something to show in public but I needed something to show it so I picked up Open sauce again and it so I picked up Open sauce again and it so I picked up Open sauce again and started building again like whatever the started building again like whatever the started building again like whatever the new version was going to be and it ended new version was going to be and it ended new version was going to be and it ended up being what we ended up um building up being what we ended up um building up being what we ended up um building the last couple years uh so in 2021 I the last couple years uh so in 2021 I the last couple years uh so in 2021 I probably was a year into had built like probably was a year into had built like probably was a year into had built like about a 200 person Discord had a bit of about a 200 person Discord had a bit of about a 200 person Discord had a bit of a community of folks who were interested a community of folks who were interested a community of folks who were interested in building alongside of me in open in building alongside of me in open in building alongside of me in open source uh so I think source uh so I think source uh so I think that ramp up was really just me that ramp up was really just me that ramp up was really just me consistently meeting with that Community consistently meeting with that Community consistently meeting with that Community live streaming uh and then getting live streaming uh and then getting live streaming uh and then getting validation that there was a product that validation that there was a product that validation that there was a product that could fit within a market so one of the could fit within a market so one of the could fit within a market so one of the things that is a struggle for open things that is a struggle for open things that is a struggle for open source in general and has been since the source in general and has been since the source in general and has been since the concept of Open Source is come out is concept of Open Source is come out is concept of Open Source is come out is the idea of where does capitalism where the idea of where does capitalism where the idea of where does capitalism where does commercial fit like in OSS now

does commercial fit like in OSS now does commercial fit like in OSS now there's OSS and then there's F OSS but there's OSS and then there's F OSS but there's OSS and then there's F OSS but in the context of what you're building in the context of what you're building in the context of what you're building what was your idea what was your plan what was your idea what was your plan what was your idea what was your plan for making money while being open source for making money while being open source for making money while being open source and supporting open source because you and supporting open source because you and supporting open source because you you quit your job to become a founder of you quit your job to become a founder of you quit your job to become a founder of this thing that is itself you know going this thing that is itself you know going this thing that is itself you know going to be an open source to be an open source to be an open source thing yeah so the the the idea here in thing yeah so the the the idea here in thing yeah so the the the idea here in making money and how I sort of like making money and how I sort of like making money and how I sort of like separated of we built the platform that separated of we built the platform that separated of we built the platform that was open free folks to make was open free folks to make was open free folks to make contributions uh the signal I saw was contributions uh the signal I saw was contributions uh the signal I saw was like these open source program offices like these open source program offices like these open source program offices uh in particular uh they were attached uh in particular uh they were attached uh in particular uh they were attached to large Enterprises to large Enterprises to large Enterprises these are teams that have a directive these are teams that have a directive these are teams that have a directive either from the CTO VP engineering how either from the CTO VP engineering how either from the CTO VP engineering how well they're doing an open source and well they're doing an open source and well they're doing an open source and inner source and what we discovered inner source and what we discovered inner source and what we discovered particular was um finops foundation so a particular was um finops foundation so a particular was um finops foundation so a lot of fchs in particular also have the lot of fchs in particular also have the lot of fchs in particular also have the same goals and the need for this data uh same goals and the need for this data uh same goals and the need for this data uh inner source and open source and that inner source and open source and that inner source and open source and that was our really the last goal for us in was our really the last goal for us in was our really the last goal for us in the last 18 months is attach the product the last 18 months is attach the product the last 18 months is attach the product to those teams in particular uh I don't to those teams in particular uh I don't to those teams in particular uh I don't know like spill the beans and uh like know like spill the beans and uh like know like spill the beans and uh like bury the lead but like we ended up bury the lead but like we ended up bury the lead but like we ended up getting acquired by the Linux foundation getting acquired by the Linux foundation getting acquired by the Linux foundation so we got any sort of momentum past that so we got any sort of momentum past that so we got any sort of momentum past that one use case but that's been the goal one use case but that's been the goal one use case but that's been the goal for us in the last 18 months and what we for us in the last 18 months and what we for us in the last 18 months and what we discovered is like there are other large discovered is like there are other large discovered is like there are other large teams like Microsoft like Netflix like teams like Microsoft like Netflix like teams like Microsoft like Netflix like Amazon that also had the same problem uh Amazon that also had the same problem uh Amazon that also had the same problem uh our challenge is really how do we get our challenge is really how do we get our challenge is really how do we get ourselves into that door validate that ourselves into that door validate that ourselves into that door validate that we we do have a solved problem for this we we do have a solved problem for this we we do have a solved problem for this uh and it made the decision to go ahead

uh and it made the decision to go ahead uh and it made the decision to go ahead and join a larger organization yeah and and join a larger organization yeah and and join a larger organization yeah and we'll get to the the the the path and we'll get to the the the the path and we'll get to the the the the path and how you join the Lin find but but it's how you join the Lin find but but it's how you join the Lin find but but it's it's a 2-year process here you're you're it's a 2-year process here you're you're it's a 2-year process here you're you're doing full-time founding building this doing full-time founding building this doing full-time founding building this thing when did you decide to I don't thing when did you decide to I don't thing when did you decide to I don't know if it's a pivot but I I'm know if it's a pivot but I I'm know if it's a pivot but I I'm perceiving it as a pivot where you're perceiving it as a pivot where you're perceiving it as a pivot where you're starting to call it co-pilot but for get starting to call it co-pilot but for get starting to call it co-pilot but for get history and you're creating a thing history and you're creating a thing history and you're creating a thing called Star Search where you're called Star Search where you're called Star Search where you're effectively using your git commit as as effectively using your git commit as as effectively using your git commit as as rag as retrieval augmented generation rag as retrieval augmented generation rag as retrieval augmented generation and applying AI to it because ai's been and applying AI to it because ai's been and applying AI to it because ai's been around but it's only been in the around but it's only been in the around but it's only been in the Zeitgeist for like the last two two Zeitgeist for like the last two two Zeitgeist for like the last two two three years yeah yeah and like the three years yeah yeah and like the three years yeah yeah and like the timeline was September of 2022 I had timeline was September of 2022 I had timeline was September of 2022 I had left GitHub officially to build this left GitHub officially to build this left GitHub officially to build this product uh I actually took a three-month product uh I actually took a three-month product uh I actually took a three-month sabatical and then built the new version sabatical and then built the new version sabatical and then built the new version of open sace that summer um so we of open sace that summer um so we of open sace that summer um so we attached ourselves to github's or sorry attached ourselves to github's or sorry attached ourselves to github's or sorry not GitHub digital oceans hober Fest was not GitHub digital oceans hober Fest was not GitHub digital oceans hober Fest was our first customer if we get insights our first customer if we get insights our first customer if we get insights over 300,000 plus poqu quest uh we can over 300,000 plus poqu quest uh we can over 300,000 plus poqu quest uh we can like really just tell a story through like really just tell a story through like really just tell a story through that data first uh and that was a goal that data first uh and that was a goal that data first uh and that was a goal um 6 months after that in the 2023 uh we um 6 months after that in the 2023 uh we um 6 months after that in the 2023 uh we actually beefed up the infrastructure we actually beefed up the infrastructure we actually beefed up the infrastructure we hired John McBride from Amazon uh to hired John McBride from Amazon uh to hired John McBride from Amazon uh to come on early employee and just build come on early employee and just build come on early employee and just build out more infrastructure on how we Source out more infrastructure on how we Source out more infrastructure on how we Source this data um cost effectively and by this data um cost effectively and by this data um cost effectively and by that summer we were just kind of like that summer we were just kind of like that summer we were just kind of like okay we solved that problem we solved okay we solved that problem we solved okay we solved that problem we solved this sort of GitHub insights but better this sort of GitHub insights but better this sort of GitHub insights but better problem uh that we sort of set out to do problem uh that we sort of set out to do problem uh that we sort of set out to do like what's next um and September of

like what's next um and September of like what's next um and September of 2022 actually November of 2022 is when 2022 actually November of 2022 is when 2022 actually November of 2022 is when chat gbt came out and AI really just chat gbt came out and AI really just chat gbt came out and AI really just became way more accessible uh as more became way more accessible uh as more became way more accessible uh as more and more tooling was being exposed I was and more tooling was being exposed I was and more tooling was being exposed I was very familiar with co-pilot and open Ai very familiar with co-pilot and open Ai very familiar with co-pilot and open Ai and that partnership um but as a and that partnership um but as a and that partnership um but as a developer of doing front-end Co coding developer of doing front-end Co coding developer of doing front-end Co coding mostly like I never saw myself as a had mostly like I never saw myself as a had mostly like I never saw myself as a had the ability to go do some AI stuff um so the ability to go do some AI stuff um so the ability to go do some AI stuff um so as I saw more and more Tooling in like as I saw more and more Tooling in like as I saw more and more Tooling in like six months till December of 2023 I came six months till December of 2023 I came six months till December of 2023 I came out with an idea of like what could we out with an idea of like what could we out with an idea of like what could we do with our data because like the do with our data because like the do with our data because like the hardest part I actually heard from the hardest part I actually heard from the hardest part I actually heard from the hugging face CEO um at a fireside chat hugging face CEO um at a fireside chat hugging face CEO um at a fireside chat out here in San Francisco the hardest out here in San Francisco the hardest out here in San Francisco the hardest thing about machine learning and AI is thing about machine learning and AI is thing about machine learning and AI is data like if you have no data to train data like if you have no data to train data like if you have no data to train if you have no data to to do AI with if you have no data to to do AI with if you have no data to to do AI with you're kind of not really doing anything you're kind of not really doing anything you're kind of not really doing anything like you you got to build up some sort like you you got to build up some sort like you you got to build up some sort of use case and uh because we had all of use case and uh because we had all of use case and uh because we had all this data we we decided to build this this data we we decided to build this this data we we decided to build this thing what we call um well you know it's thing what we call um well you know it's thing what we call um well you know it's funny I was gonna say star search but we funny I was gonna say star search but we funny I was gonna say star search but we actually built something before that uh actually built something before that uh actually built something before that uh well we actually took GitHub repos and well we actually took GitHub repos and well we actually took GitHub repos and you could chat with them and it was um you could chat with them and it was um you could chat with them and it was um it's kind of at this point it's kind of it's kind of at this point it's kind of it's kind of at this point it's kind of a tri trivial like you go to Microsoft a tri trivial like you go to Microsoft a tri trivial like you go to Microsoft build you're doing like a two-hour build you're doing like a two-hour build you're doing like a two-hour workshop and you're doing this so it's workshop and you're doing this so it's workshop and you're doing this so it's like a definitely like a a workshop or like a definitely like a a workshop or like a definitely like a a workshop or hello world and open source or sorry hello world and open source or sorry hello world and open source or sorry open source and AI but we built that as open source and AI but we built that as open source and AI but we built that as a Chrome extension so you basically just a Chrome extension so you basically just a Chrome extension so you basically just opt in the repo and we'd go index it and opt in the repo and we'd go index it and opt in the repo and we'd go index it and build a rag to basically say hey who was build a rag to basically say hey who was build a rag to basically say hey who was maintained stuff in 2017 like one of the maintained stuff in 2017 like one of the maintained stuff in 2017 like one of the biggest problems that we we heard from biggest problems that we we heard from biggest problems that we we heard from customers was like hey I I'm now owning customers was like hey I I'm now owning customers was like hey I I'm now owning this stuff as an opo but I don't know this stuff as an opo but I don't know this stuff as an opo but I don't know what the historical record and context

what the historical record and context what the historical record and context on how we got here big thing for on how we got here big thing for on how we got here big thing for engineers you start day one you're like engineers you start day one you're like engineers you start day one you're like oh wow well you wrote this code in net oh wow well you wrote this code in net oh wow well you wrote this code in net but like we should use typescript so but like we should use typescript so but like we should use typescript so like I'm rewriting everything and it's like I'm rewriting everything and it's like I'm rewriting everything and it's going to be better and then five years going to be better and then five years going to be better and then five years from now it's G be like oh no we're from now it's G be like oh no we're from now it's G be like oh no we're actually doing this in hascal but no one actually doing this in hascal but no one actually doing this in hascal but no one really knows how we got here so like you really knows how we got here so like you really knows how we got here so like you can now have the historical record can now have the historical record can now have the historical record through a chat interface so that was our through a chat interface so that was our through a chat interface so that was our first thing uh which was fun but I I first thing uh which was fun but I I first thing uh which was fun but I I anticipated GitHub would build that anticipated GitHub would build that anticipated GitHub would build that pretty easily in co-pilot like co-pilot pretty easily in co-pilot like co-pilot pretty easily in co-pilot like co-pilot chat came out literally the next GitHub chat came out literally the next GitHub chat came out literally the next GitHub Universe in November so I was like this Universe in November so I was like this Universe in November so I was like this can't be the thing we actually focus on can't be the thing we actually focus on can't be the thing we actually focus on what is the thing that would be super what is the thing that would be super what is the thing that would be super useful um which I I in particular I useful um which I I in particular I useful um which I I in particular I always wanted to go and find out always wanted to go and find out always wanted to go and find out historical record on projects before historical record on projects before historical record on projects before making contributions and opening up 20 making contributions and opening up 20 making contributions and opening up 20 PRS uh and just knowing like hey is this PRS uh and just knowing like hey is this PRS uh and just knowing like hey is this a good place to like start my open a good place to like start my open a good place to like start my open source Journey or start my next source Journey or start my next source Journey or start my next contribution or who are the folks I contribution or who are the folks I contribution or who are the folks I should reach out to a lot of that should reach out to a lot of that should reach out to a lot of that context is lost so that's where we sort context is lost so that's where we sort context is lost so that's where we sort of came up the idea around GitHub of came up the idea around GitHub of came up the idea around GitHub Universe uh to build Star Search did you Universe uh to build Star Search did you Universe uh to build Star Search did you feel like you were competing with your feel like you were competing with your feel like you were competing with your previous co-workers do you feel like previous co-workers do you feel like previous co-workers do you feel like you're like Hey we're a small company you're like Hey we're a small company you're like Hey we're a small company we're a startup and we're against in we're a startup and we're against in we're a startup and we're against in quotes this like giant company that I quotes this like giant company that I quotes this like giant company that I just left and you're kind of like just left and you're kind of like just left and you're kind of like chasing what they're not going to chasing what they're not going to chasing what they're not going to build yeah you it it actually came up a build yeah you it it actually came up a build yeah you it it actually came up a ton because we did take up VC um ton because we did take up VC um ton because we did take up VC um investment and the biggest question was investment and the biggest question was investment and the biggest question was like why would GitHub not build this or like why would GitHub not build this or like why would GitHub not build this or what happens if GitHub does build this what happens if GitHub does build this what happens if GitHub does build this and I I think and maybe this is like

and I I think and maybe this is like and I I think and maybe this is like maybe not my hubis but like my naive of maybe not my hubis but like my naive of maybe not my hubis but like my naive of being a Founder but also maybe being too being a Founder but also maybe being too being a Founder but also maybe being too humble um I didn't I didn't mind if humble um I didn't I didn't mind if humble um I didn't I didn't mind if GitHub built what we were building GitHub built what we were building GitHub built what we were building because I knew I knew everyone at GitHub because I knew I knew everyone at GitHub because I knew I knew everyone at GitHub I knew who to reach out to I knew where I knew who to reach out to I knew where I knew who to reach out to I knew where we could make strike a partnership so I we could make strike a partnership so I we could make strike a partnership so I was like too totally fine with GitHub was like too totally fine with GitHub was like too totally fine with GitHub solving the problem because at the end solving the problem because at the end solving the problem because at the end of the day as Open sauce I didn't build of the day as Open sauce I didn't build of the day as Open sauce I didn't build this so I could be like a billionaire or this so I could be like a billionaire or this so I could be like a billionaire or you know multi-million dollar exit uh I you know multi-million dollar exit uh I you know multi-million dollar exit uh I built this because I wanted to see this built this because I wanted to see this built this because I wanted to see this in the world and if someone else built in the world and if someone else built in the world and if someone else built it before me I would be 100% fine with it before me I would be 100% fine with it before me I would be 100% fine with that if someone else solve the problem that if someone else solve the problem that if someone else solve the problem in a more cost effective way that did in a more cost effective way that did in a more cost effective way that did much better than us like I'd be totally much better than us like I'd be totally much better than us like I'd be totally fine with that and we could either pivot fine with that and we could either pivot fine with that and we could either pivot or partner or shut it down like the goal or partner or shut it down like the goal or partner or shut it down like the goal is really to get this thing in the is really to get this thing in the is really to get this thing in the market like get this thing usable and market like get this thing usable and market like get this thing usable and people make it accessible and like the people make it accessible and like the people make it accessible and like the monetization side was really how do you monetization side was really how do you monetization side was really how do you sustain something that's yes you can do sustain something that's yes you can do sustain something that's yes you can do open source contributions but like open source contributions but like open source contributions but like somebody's gonna have to pay the bill so somebody's gonna have to pay the bill so somebody's gonna have to pay the bill so discovering that was was the goal um but discovering that was was the goal um but discovering that was was the goal um but what I talked to actually so going when what I talked to actually so going when what I talked to actually so going when I Microsoft build in 2022 actually Jo I I Microsoft build in 2022 actually Jo I I Microsoft build in 2022 actually Jo I went there I think to an invite from you went there I think to an invite from you went there I think to an invite from you uh hosted a podcast and I had uh Allison uh hosted a podcast and I had uh Allison uh hosted a podcast and I had uh Allison win's 2% silk one of the PMS for win's 2% silk one of the PMS for win's 2% silk one of the PMS for co-pilot was on uh my podcast at co-pilot was on uh my podcast at co-pilot was on uh my podcast at Microsoft build and after that Microsoft build and after that Microsoft build and after that conversation I was say like Allison like conversation I was say like Allison like conversation I was say like Allison like you you should be building this stuff you you should be building this stuff you you should be building this stuff like we built this little repo chat like we built this little repo chat like we built this little repo chat interface um this sounds like a copilot interface um this sounds like a copilot interface um this sounds like a copilot feature it turns out like six months feature it turns out like six months feature it turns out like six months later it was not because of our later it was not because of our later it was not because of our conversation I think it was already in

conversation I think it was already in conversation I think it was already in the road map uh but the road map uh but the road map uh but there you go here's some other ideas there you go here's some other ideas there you go here's some other ideas that we have like take it or leave it that we have like take it or leave it that we have like take it or leave it feel free uh because I just knew I was feel free uh because I just knew I was feel free uh because I just knew I was just confident that was not going to be just confident that was not going to be just confident that was not going to be the end all of what Open sauce needed to the end all of what Open sauce needed to the end all of what Open sauce needed to be I think it was just a really good be I think it was just a really good be I think it was just a really good summer project for us to work on uh and summer project for us to work on uh and summer project for us to work on uh and same deal with Star Search like we did same deal with Star Search like we did same deal with Star Search like we did partner with um GitHub and collaborated partner with um GitHub and collaborated partner with um GitHub and collaborated with them and had conversations with with them and had conversations with with them and had conversations with their team as we were building it uh we their team as we were building it uh we their team as we were building it uh we also partnered with Microsoft's AI also partnered with Microsoft's AI also partnered with Microsoft's AI Innovation lab as well uh and built this Innovation lab as well uh and built this Innovation lab as well uh and built this all on Azure really because I I I think all on Azure really because I I I think all on Azure really because I I I think I do much better like my network and and I do much better like my network and and I do much better like my network and and engaging folks like collaboration um I engaging folks like collaboration um I engaging folks like collaboration um I didn't want to feel like I had to like didn't want to feel like I had to like didn't want to feel like I had to like compete and and Crush competition and compete and and Crush competition and compete and and Crush competition and like crushing GitHub yeah that would like crushing GitHub yeah that would like crushing GitHub yeah that would feel great um but I'd rather see GitHub feel great um but I'd rather see GitHub feel great um but I'd rather see GitHub Microsoft whoever succeed uh and I Microsoft whoever succeed uh and I Microsoft whoever succeed uh and I benefit from it as well as a developer hey friends as I spend the developer hey friends as I spend the next couple of months learning more and next couple of months learning more and next couple of months learning more and more about AI in the middle of the show more about AI in the middle of the show more about AI in the middle of the show I'm going to pause for a second and I'm I'm going to pause for a second and I'm I'm going to pause for a second and I'm going to bring in lvert Van Dorne senior going to bring in lvert Van Dorne senior going to bring in lvert Van Dorne senior VP of engineering at qual com to help me VP of engineering at qual com to help me VP of engineering at qual com to help me understand more about what's going on understand more about what's going on understand more about what's going on Lander at Qualcomm when you came in you Lander at Qualcomm when you came in you Lander at Qualcomm when you came in you needed to shift the culture to an open needed to shift the culture to an open needed to shift the culture to an open one to and you wrote a Manifesto to help one to and you wrote a Manifesto to help one to and you wrote a Manifesto to help people get their heads right talk to me people get their heads right talk to me people get their heads right talk to me about that Manifesto yeah so it feels about that Manifesto yeah so it feels about that Manifesto yeah so it feels like every Big company needs to go like every Big company needs to go like every Big company needs to go through this kind of culture change to through this kind of culture change to through this kind of culture change to become more open and to uh adopt become more open and to uh adopt become more open and to uh adopt certainly open source and so yes I wrote certainly open source and so yes I wrote certainly open source and so yes I wrote a Manifesto where I basically pointed

a Manifesto where I basically pointed a Manifesto where I basically pointed out that our tradition business model uh out that our tradition business model uh out that our tradition business model uh which is around cell phones which has which is around cell phones which has which is around cell phones which has made us extremely successful right made us extremely successful right made us extremely successful right doesn't really work or doesn't scale to doesn't really work or doesn't scale to doesn't really work or doesn't scale to our new strategy where we're our new strategy where we're our new strategy where we're diversifying we're we addressing XR diversifying we're we addressing XR diversifying we're we addressing XR we're addressing PC we're addressing iot we're addressing PC we're addressing iot we're addressing PC we're addressing iot we're addressing we're addressing we're addressing auto key thing about all these new auto key thing about all these new auto key thing about all these new Diversified businesses is that open Diversified businesses is that open Diversified businesses is that open source is a critical part of that source is a critical part of that source is a critical part of that business model and so we need to we business model and so we need to we business model and so we need to we needed to adopt that and we needed to needed to adopt that and we needed to needed to adopt that and we needed to embrace it and that's basically it was embrace it and that's basically it was embrace it and that's basically it was very well received by my SE suite and very well received by my SE suite and very well received by my SE suite and it's very actively Something That We're it's very actively Something That We're it's very actively Something That We're engaging and so a lot of the open source engaging and so a lot of the open source engaging and so a lot of the open source engagements that you see from a lot of engagements that you see from a lot of engagements that you see from a lot of Welcome developers it sort of goes back Welcome developers it sort of goes back Welcome developers it sort of goes back to it's a continuation really shouldn't to it's a continuation really shouldn't to it's a continuation really shouldn't say that I all started it but I say that I all started it but I say that I all started it but I certainly put the emphasis on it as like certainly put the emphasis on it as like certainly put the emphasis on it as like hey this is critical it needs to I'm hey this is critical it needs to I'm hey this is critical it needs to I'm pretty excited about that I love it open pretty excited about that I love it open pretty excited about that I love it open First Community First a lot of great First Community First a lot of great First Community First a lot of great stuff happening at Qualcomm you can stuff happening at Qualcomm you can stuff happening at Qualcomm you can learn more at learn more at learn more at qualcomm.com developer so I I'm trying to find the developer so I I'm trying to find the way to phras this so we know each other way to phras this so we know each other way to phras this so we know each other and we've known you for a long time so I and we've known you for a long time so I and we've known you for a long time so I think you'll take it with the love that think you'll take it with the love that think you'll take it with the love that it is meant but I want to ask a hard it is meant but I want to ask a hard it is meant but I want to ask a hard question I've never thought of you as a question I've never thought of you as a question I've never thought of you as a real big capitalist make billions of real big capitalist make billions of real big capitalist make billions of dollars but you live in the bay and you dollars but you live in the bay and you dollars but you live in the bay and you took VC money are you a not a good took VC money are you a not a good took VC money are you a not a good capitalist or like are you walking on

capitalist or like are you walking on capitalist or like are you walking on both sides of this Razor's Edge cuz both sides of this Razor's Edge cuz both sides of this Razor's Edge cuz you're trying to build this open source you're trying to build this open source you're trying to build this open source thing but then you just said well I thing but then you just said well I thing but then you just said well I don't really care if anyone I just want don't really care if anyone I just want don't really care if anyone I just want it to be out in the universe I don't it to be out in the universe I don't it to be out in the universe I don't really care that's not the founder really care that's not the founder really care that's not the founder attitude that most Bay Area people uh attitude that most Bay Area people uh attitude that most Bay Area people uh walk around with yeah that's I mean walk around with yeah that's I mean walk around with yeah that's I mean that's a good question too is the thing that's a good question too is the thing that's a good question too is the thing I was thinking about like even like a I was thinking about like even like a I was thinking about like even like a deeper question was like before I left deeper question was like before I left deeper question was like before I left GitHub I was making the most amount of GitHub I was making the most amount of GitHub I was making the most amount of money uh in my entire career so like I money uh in my entire career so like I money uh in my entire career so like I think I had tripled my salary my first think I had tripled my salary my first think I had tripled my salary my first in San Francisco I had tripled it at in San Francisco I had tripled it at in San Francisco I had tripled it at that point um when I left GitHub so I that point um when I left GitHub so I that point um when I left GitHub so I constantly like I'm fine with making constantly like I'm fine with making constantly like I'm fine with making money and I'm fine with like paying for money and I'm fine with like paying for money and I'm fine with like paying for my kids college and stuff like that but my kids college and stuff like that but my kids college and stuff like that but also like there's a saying like if you also like there's a saying like if you also like there's a saying like if you have enough Lobster it starts tasting have enough Lobster it starts tasting have enough Lobster it starts tasting like soap like the goal for me was not like soap like the goal for me was not like soap like the goal for me was not have more Lobster like eat more Fine have more Lobster like eat more Fine have more Lobster like eat more Fine Food like take helicopter rides to Tahoe Food like take helicopter rides to Tahoe Food like take helicopter rides to Tahoe like my goal is like I just want to make like my goal is like I just want to make like my goal is like I just want to make an impact in industry in this world and an impact in industry in this world and an impact in industry in this world and if my kids go to to a private college if my kids go to to a private college if my kids go to to a private college versus a public school on scholarship versus a public school on scholarship versus a public school on scholarship like I'm just happy that everyone gets a like I'm just happy that everyone gets a like I'm just happy that everyone gets a step forward and so like am I in the step forward and so like am I in the step forward and so like am I in the razer's edge like I I definitely have razer's edge like I I definitely have razer's edge like I I definitely have Investments and I have a savings and I I Investments and I have a savings and I I Investments and I have a savings and I I do drive a Tesla um but I don't think I do drive a Tesla um but I don't think I do drive a Tesla um but I don't think I do any of that stuff because like I'm do any of that stuff because like I'm do any of that stuff because like I'm trying to use sort of hor chips um I do trying to use sort of hor chips um I do trying to use sort of hor chips um I do it mainly because I just know that I it mainly because I just know that I it mainly because I just know that I want to benefit me everyone in my four want to benefit me everyone in my four want to benefit me everyone in my four walls here at my house uh but also I I'm walls here at my house uh but also I I'm walls here at my house uh but also I I'm constantly mentoring like new Engineers

constantly mentoring like new Engineers constantly mentoring like new Engineers like I participate in hack the hood out like I participate in hack the hood out like I participate in hack the hood out here in Oakland like if I can give here in Oakland like if I can give here in Oakland like if I can give everyone else a leg up where I can and everyone else a leg up where I can and everyone else a leg up where I can and without overextending myself I do that without overextending myself I do that without overextending myself I do that too as well so I don't know I it it too as well so I don't know I it it too as well so I don't know I it it sounds like and I'm also like I don't sounds like and I'm also like I don't sounds like and I'm also like I don't want to like to to my own on horn as want to like to to my own on horn as want to like to to my own on horn as well so like uh that even feels weird to well so like uh that even feels weird to well so like uh that even feels weird to say out loud um so maybe I'm not like say out loud um so maybe I'm not like say out loud um so maybe I'm not like the best founder in the sense that like the best founder in the sense that like the best founder in the sense that like I gotta go cross a competition and like I gotta go cross a competition and like I gotta go cross a competition and like well like like founder mode founder mode well like like founder mode founder mode well like like founder mode founder mode you know what I mean like yeah your you know what I mean like yeah your you know what I mean like yeah your Vibes don't give founder mode they kind Vibes don't give founder mode they kind Vibes don't give founder mode they kind of never have and I was wondering if of never have and I was wondering if of never have and I was wondering if that was challenging as you're out there that was challenging as you're out there that was challenging as you're out there trying to like raise money and be a trying to like raise money and be a trying to like raise money and be a Founder yeah but the thing is like so Founder yeah but the thing is like so Founder yeah but the thing is like so the founder mode thing uh so like there the founder mode thing uh so like there the founder mode thing uh so like there like the uh it was the Airbnb CEO at the like the uh it was the Airbnb CEO at the like the uh it was the Airbnb CEO at the figma conference fireside chat mentioned figma conference fireside chat mentioned figma conference fireside chat mentioned founder mode and then like there's a founder mode and then like there's a founder mode and then like there's a Paul Graham article that this was all Paul Graham article that this was all Paul Graham article that this was all inspired from I kind of lived founder inspired from I kind of lived founder inspired from I kind of lived founder mode before I was a Founder so like I mode before I was a Founder so like I mode before I was a Founder so like I I'm still very much like I'm actually I I'm still very much like I'm actually I I'm still very much like I'm actually I got a six months plan for learning AI in got a six months plan for learning AI in got a six months plan for learning AI in ml why like for no reason other than I ml why like for no reason other than I ml why like for no reason other than I just love learning so I've already done just love learning so I've already done just love learning so I've already done negotiated with my wife of like cool I negotiated with my wife of like cool I negotiated with my wife of like cool I do kids pick up or drop off but before do kids pick up or drop off but before do kids pick up or drop off but before that I'll do like two hours of reading that I'll do like two hours of reading that I'll do like two hours of reading and hacking so I'm up at 5: am not and hacking so I'm up at 5: am not and hacking so I'm up at 5: am not because of founder mode more of like I because of founder mode more of like I because of founder mode more of like I just know time management and I just just know time management and I just just know time management and I just know I want to go ship a new thing and know I want to go ship a new thing and know I want to go ship a new thing and learn a new skill and that's kind of how learn a new skill and that's kind of how learn a new skill and that's kind of how I treated open sace before I became like I treated open sace before I became like I treated open sace before I became like the actual company like every Friday at the actual company like every Friday at the actual company like every Friday at lunch like I'm doing two hours on Twitch lunch like I'm doing two hours on Twitch lunch like I'm doing two hours on Twitch stream because I'm want to learn in stream because I'm want to learn in stream because I'm want to learn in public with an audience for public with an audience for public with an audience for uh and I'm going to hack on Sunday

uh and I'm going to hack on Sunday uh and I'm going to hack on Sunday afternoons on whatever random thing or afternoons on whatever random thing or afternoons on whatever random thing or whatever article I saw um and I think whatever article I saw um and I think whatever article I saw um and I think that's the kind of like when you're just that's the kind of like when you're just that's the kind of like when you're just like excited about what you're doing I like excited about what you're doing I like excited about what you're doing I think FBO becomes more organic and think FBO becomes more organic and think FBO becomes more organic and natural um but some people feel like natural um but some people feel like natural um but some people feel like they have to prescribe of like oh I they have to prescribe of like oh I they have to prescribe of like oh I gotta wear my black turtleneck and like gotta wear my black turtleneck and like gotta wear my black turtleneck and like go drink a blue bottle of coffee and go drink a blue bottle of coffee and go drink a blue bottle of coffee and then now I'm in founder mod like I don't then now I'm in founder mod like I don't then now I'm in founder mod like I don't know if that's the the reality I when I know if that's the the reality I when I know if that's the the reality I when I I think you and I are very similar in I think you and I are very similar in I think you and I are very similar in that we are very intentional you're that we are very intentional you're that we are very intentional you're doing things because you decided to do doing things because you decided to do doing things because you decided to do the thing you are making intentional the thing you are making intentional the thing you are making intentional choices about your time about the the choices about your time about the the choices about your time about the the things you're going to learn you talk to things you're going to learn you talk to things you're going to learn you talk to your wife about like okay this is the your wife about like okay this is the your wife about like okay this is the thing I want to learn let's let's thing I want to learn let's let's thing I want to learn let's let's partner as a team and figure out the partner as a team and figure out the partner as a team and figure out the right way to make that happen and if right way to make that happen and if right way to make that happen and if that's I'm going to wake up 5:00 am that's I'm going to wake up 5:00 am that's I'm going to wake up 5:00 am because I want to do that that's because because I want to do that that's because because I want to do that that's because that's when you could find those two that's when you could find those two that's when you could find those two hours and that seems very intentional hours and that seems very intentional hours and that seems very intentional and that seems like a very positive and that seems like a very positive and that seems like a very positive thing it doesn't seem like I have to thing it doesn't seem like I have to thing it doesn't seem like I have to grind 15 hours a day otherwi wise the grind 15 hours a day otherwi wise the grind 15 hours a day otherwi wise the company will fail that's just you just company will fail that's just you just company will fail that's just you just you made a decision and that seems you made a decision and that seems you made a decision and that seems really cool to really cool to really cool to me yeah indeed it's it also like it's me yeah indeed it's it also like it's me yeah indeed it's it also like it's kind of how I also join this sort of kind of how I also join this sort of kind of how I also join this sort of tech ecosystem I was an outsider tech ecosystem I was an outsider tech ecosystem I was an outsider listened to a ton of podcasts kind of listened to a ton of podcasts kind of listened to a ton of podcasts kind of had dreams and aspirations of like had dreams and aspirations of like had dreams and aspirations of like eventually learning how to code and eventually learning how to code and eventually learning how to code and building a little mobile app and when it building a little mobile app and when it building a little mobile app and when it became a reality it was kind of I've became a reality it was kind of I've became a reality it was kind of I've been kind of been living like a been kind of been living like a been kind of been living like a serendipitous like life of like I made serendipitous like life of like I made serendipitous like life of like I made it and like even my choice to move from it and like even my choice to move from it and like even my choice to move from at the time Orlando to Oakland uh to be

at the time Orlando to Oakland uh to be at the time Orlando to Oakland uh to be closer in the Bay Area and take a closer in the Bay Area and take a closer in the Bay Area and take a startup job originally was like I'm just startup job originally was like I'm just startup job originally was like I'm just going to try it because I just enjoy going to try it because I just enjoy going to try it because I just enjoy doing this versus what I did previously doing this versus what I did previously doing this versus what I did previously which was sales for networking equipment which was sales for networking equipment which was sales for networking equipment like that wasn't quite filling my hopes like that wasn't quite filling my hopes like that wasn't quite filling my hopes dreams and dreams and dreams and aspirations so you when did you decide aspirations so you when did you decide aspirations so you when did you decide that you could not turn this into the that you could not turn this into the that you could not turn this into the next billion dollar thing and you needed next billion dollar thing and you needed next billion dollar thing and you needed to start looking for it to be acquired to start looking for it to be acquired to start looking for it to be acquired to be become a part of something larger to be become a part of something larger to be become a part of something larger like that you're two years into it and like that you're two years into it and like that you're two years into it and then what then what then what happened yeah I think out the gate we happened yeah I think out the gate we happened yeah I think out the gate we had some really good interests from had some really good interests from had some really good interests from sales and uh from Enterprises uh we sales and uh from Enterprises uh we sales and uh from Enterprises uh we didn't quite have an Enterprise product didn't quite have an Enterprise product didn't quite have an Enterprise product for a while we had to like build for a while we had to like build for a while we had to like build infrastructure uh and then once we built infrastructure uh and then once we built infrastructure uh and then once we built that we had to decide okay what do we do that we had to decide okay what do we do that we had to decide okay what do we do with this and Star Search became the with this and Star Search became the with this and Star Search became the thing so like the story behind Star thing so like the story behind Star thing so like the story behind Star Search was um it's just like the show Search was um it's just like the show Search was um it's just like the show like as a kid I used to watch Star like as a kid I used to watch Star like as a kid I used to watch Star Search on my grandma's couch uh and they Search on my grandma's couch uh and they Search on my grandma's couch uh and they would discover Beyonce Justin Timberlake would discover Beyonce Justin Timberlake would discover Beyonce Justin Timberlake and I wanted to be able to like discover and I wanted to be able to like discover and I wanted to be able to like discover who are The Heavy Hitters who are The who are The Heavy Hitters who are The who are The Heavy Hitters who are The Taste makers within open source uh and Taste makers within open source uh and Taste makers within open source uh and that was like a really strong story that that was like a really strong story that that was like a really strong story that we wanted to go to market with like this we wanted to go to market with like this we wanted to go to market with like this is why Open sauce exists this is why the is why Open sauce exists this is why the is why Open sauce exists this is why the data is important this is why you should data is important this is why you should data is important this is why you should go run this in a a container uh a Docker go run this in a a container uh a Docker go run this in a a container uh a Docker container in inside your firewall and um container in inside your firewall and um container in inside your firewall and um so we had shipped that in April of this so we had shipped that in April of this so we had shipped that in April of this year uh and then we did a product hunt year uh and then we did a product hunt year uh and then we did a product hunt launch and I think just shortly after launch and I think just shortly after launch and I think just shortly after May did a bunch of marketing around it May did a bunch of marketing around it May did a bunch of marketing around it and I would say like at the time we had and I would say like at the time we had and I would say like at the time we had built this as a you build a workspace

built this as a you build a workspace built this as a you build a workspace you add all your repositories you you you add all your repositories you you you add all your repositories you you interact with the the project we got a interact with the the project we got a interact with the the project we got a lot of excitement a lot of interest a lot of excitement a lot of interest a lot of excitement a lot of interest a lot of inbounds and it worked out pretty lot of inbounds and it worked out pretty lot of inbounds and it worked out pretty well uh what was really the the kicker well uh what was really the the kicker well uh what was really the the kicker was like when it's like they called us was like when it's like they called us was like when it's like they called us the willingness to buy um as a startup the willingness to buy um as a startup the willingness to buy um as a startup founder when we got to the point of founder when we got to the point of founder when we got to the point of talking to some of the largest companies talking to some of the largest companies talking to some of the largest companies uh within open source but also like just uh within open source but also like just uh within open source but also like just on the stock stock market as well like on the stock stock market as well like on the stock stock market as well like Blue Chip companies Blue Chip companies Blue Chip companies the willingness to buy wasn't really the willingness to buy wasn't really the willingness to buy wasn't really there and it sounded like it was going there and it sounded like it was going there and it sounded like it was going to be like three to four quarters of us to be like three to four quarters of us to be like three to four quarters of us like collaborating taking little to no like collaborating taking little to no like collaborating taking little to no money to like earn an opportunity to be money to like earn an opportunity to be money to like earn an opportunity to be in someone's budget next year and once I in someone's budget next year and once I in someone's budget next year and once I got that validation of like hey this is got that validation of like hey this is got that validation of like hey this is like not hair onire problem but this is like not hair onire problem but this is like not hair onire problem but this is a nice to have uh it honestly kind of a nice to have uh it honestly kind of a nice to have uh it honestly kind of became a little bit concerning of like became a little bit concerning of like became a little bit concerning of like did we build the right thing uh and then did we build the right thing uh and then did we build the right thing uh and then we' not have the right mindset of like we' not have the right mindset of like we' not have the right mindset of like how we were building this and how it was how we were building this and how it was how we were building this and how it was going to actually sell and be a scalable going to actually sell and be a scalable going to actually sell and be a scalable infr structure in business so um we I infr structure in business so um we I infr structure in business so um we I did started sourcing perhaps did started sourcing perhaps did started sourcing perhaps distribution channels of like partnering distribution channels of like partnering distribution channels of like partnering with GitHub uh maybe embedding our with GitHub uh maybe embedding our with GitHub uh maybe embedding our product inside of GitHub uh partner with product inside of GitHub uh partner with product inside of GitHub uh partner with the Linux Foundation or the cncf uh of the Linux Foundation or the cncf uh of the Linux Foundation or the cncf uh of like really this like we've solved a like really this like we've solved a like really this like we've solved a problem this thing could run in problem this thing could run in problem this thing could run in Enterprise infrastructure anywhere um Enterprise infrastructure anywhere um Enterprise infrastructure anywhere um how can we solve that story at a larger how can we solve that story at a larger how can we solve that story at a larger scale uh much faster um so that all scale uh much faster um so that all scale uh much faster um so that all those conversations end up turning into those conversations end up turning into those conversations end up turning into potential acquisition conversations like potential acquisition conversations like potential acquisition conversations like shockingly pretty quickly um so then the shockingly pretty quickly um so then the shockingly pretty quickly um so then the story was like I just needed to decide story was like I just needed to decide story was like I just needed to decide like are we going to be raising another

like are we going to be raising another like are we going to be raising another round then scale to do Enterprise and do round then scale to do Enterprise and do round then scale to do Enterprise and do distribution or do we just say hey we distribution or do we just say hey we distribution or do we just say hey we did a really good job of building this did a really good job of building this did a really good job of building this product to get to this point uh this product to get to this point uh this product to get to this point uh this might be better off working somewhere might be better off working somewhere might be better off working somewhere else on the same problem and how many else on the same problem and how many else on the same problem and how many people worked for open sace at its peak people worked for open sace at its peak people worked for open sace at its peak and did you have to think about as a and did you have to think about as a and did you have to think about as a Founder like okay I want to make sure Founder like okay I want to make sure Founder like okay I want to make sure that everyone like still has a job every that everyone like still has a job every that everyone like still has a job every gets a W2 how do you figure like how gets a W2 how do you figure like how gets a W2 how do you figure like how much stress is that part of the founder much stress is that part of the founder much stress is that part of the founder yeah I mean that was probably the most yeah I mean that was probably the most yeah I mean that was probably the most stressful of this entire experience so stressful of this entire experience so stressful of this entire experience so like we had eight at the peak um eight like we had eight at the peak um eight like we had eight at the peak um eight employees um all owning options employees um all owning options employees um all owning options investing and Etc uh most with Benefits investing and Etc uh most with Benefits investing and Etc uh most with Benefits because some folks are out the outside because some folks are out the outside because some folks are out the outside the US so benefits is as hard to do at the US so benefits is as hard to do at the US so benefits is as hard to do at an early State company um that was that an early State company um that was that an early State company um that was that was our our largest about and we we was our our largest about and we we was our our largest about and we we spent about nine months at eight I think spent about nine months at eight I think spent about nine months at eight I think we had about six prior prior to the we had about six prior prior to the we had about six prior prior to the early part of this year and um yeah that early part of this year and um yeah that early part of this year and um yeah that was the considerations like can we take was the considerations like can we take was the considerations like can we take the the the mind the Brain Trust of the the the the mind the Brain Trust of the the the the mind the Brain Trust of the team and find a home for them can we team and find a home for them can we team and find a home for them can we find a home for the product um like what find a home for the product um like what find a home for the product um like what were options and that's kind of how we were options and that's kind of how we were options and that's kind of how we did this and if anybody's gone through did this and if anybody's gone through did this and if anybody's gone through the sort of fundraising process of the sort of fundraising process of the sort of fundraising process of talking to VCS and having a proc like talking to VCS and having a proc like talking to VCS and having a proc like that process of like you talk to this that process of like you talk to this that process of like you talk to this many VCS you get some sort of signal many VCS you get some sort of signal many VCS you get some sort of signal then you add like 10 more VCS into the then you add like 10 more VCS into the then you add like 10 more VCS into the mix and then you like give urgency to mix and then you like give urgency to mix and then you like give urgency to like hey Deal's closing very similar like hey Deal's closing very similar like hey Deal's closing very similar with um with acquisition uh you you we

with um with acquisition uh you you we with um with acquisition uh you you we had a 15 company list uh and I went and had a 15 company list uh and I went and had a 15 company list uh and I went and knocked out a bunch of doors and said knocked out a bunch of doors and said knocked out a bunch of doors and said hey we've got we got interest from some hey we've got we got interest from some hey we've got we got interest from some this is the process that we're looking this is the process that we're looking this is the process that we're looking for um either Brain Trust find the job for um either Brain Trust find the job for um either Brain Trust find the job uh for the team or absorb the company uh for the team or absorb the company uh for the team or absorb the company altoe so you ended up at the Linux altoe so you ended up at the Linux altoe so you ended up at the Linux foundation in just last month uh if I foundation in just last month uh if I foundation in just last month uh if I understand correctly how many of the understand correctly how many of the understand correctly how many of the eight are also now working for the Linux eight are also now working for the Linux eight are also now working for the Linux and you work there now full-time so you and you work there now full-time so you and you work there now full-time so you were a full-time employee of the Linux were a full-time employee of the Linux were a full-time employee of the Linux foundation so this is like they call it foundation so this is like they call it foundation so this is like they call it an aqua hire yes yeah so three of us an aqua hire yes yeah so three of us an aqua hire yes yeah so three of us three of the eight made it over to the three of the eight made it over to the three of the eight made it over to the Linux Foundation that are continuing to Linux Foundation that are continuing to Linux Foundation that are continuing to work on Linux Foundation problems uh work on Linux Foundation problems uh work on Linux Foundation problems uh around what we built at open saw so uh around what we built at open saw so uh around what we built at open saw so uh we've got like our head of devell made we've got like our head of devell made we've got like our head of devell made it over to help with communication and it over to help with communication and it over to help with communication and tell that story for developers tell that story for developers tell that story for developers maintainers foundations uh and then one maintainers foundations uh and then one maintainers foundations uh and then one of our engineers and myself are joining of our engineers and myself are joining of our engineers and myself are joining also so to continue down the story for also so to continue down the story for also so to continue down the story for Open sauce uh other folks have offers Open sauce uh other folks have offers Open sauce uh other folks have offers and jobs other places and I think the and jobs other places and I think the and jobs other places and I think the what we discovered is like a lot of what we discovered is like a lot of what we discovered is like a lot of folks were interested in the team not a folks were interested in the team not a folks were interested in the team not a lot of folks were interested in the lot of folks were interested in the lot of folks were interested in the product um so we had to do a little bit product um so we had to do a little bit product um so we had to do a little bit of like these folks will go here and of like these folks will go here and of like these folks will go here and we'll continue conversations at other we'll continue conversations at other we'll continue conversations at other places for proper jobs uh at other places for proper jobs uh at other places for proper jobs uh at other places so right now if you go to op sa.

places so right now if you go to op sa. places so right now if you go to op sa. pizza not.com but. pizza that's where pizza not.com but. pizza that's where pizza not.com but. pizza that's where the the site is is that where it's going the the site is is that where it's going the the site is is that where it's going to stay will what is the plan for the to stay will what is the plan for the to stay will what is the plan for the the back end because there's a lot of the back end because there's a lot of the back end because there's a lot of intellectual property there yeah so uh intellectual property there yeah so uh intellectual property there yeah so uh what they purchase is all of Open sauce what they purchase is all of Open sauce what they purchase is all of Open sauce uh code interletter Pro property uh code interletter Pro property uh code interletter Pro property trademark Etc so that will stick stick trademark Etc so that will stick stick trademark Etc so that will stick stick around uh we're actually meeting around uh we're actually meeting around uh we're actually meeting tomorrow about like transferring it over tomorrow about like transferring it over tomorrow about like transferring it over to U their credit cards um and their to U their credit cards um and their to U their credit cards um and their management and their it uh so open sauce management and their it uh so open sauce management and their it uh so open sauce will stick around uh what it looks like will stick around uh what it looks like will stick around uh what it looks like with the lenux foundation insights with the lenux foundation insights with the lenux foundation insights platform which is what I'll be working platform which is what I'll be working platform which is what I'll be working on full-time uh that will be the on full-time uh that will be the on full-time uh that will be the Enterprise product open o be top of Enterprise product open o be top of Enterprise product open o be top of funnel Community platform uh so folks funnel Community platform uh so folks funnel Community platform uh so folks can still use it as it is today it might can still use it as it is today it might can still use it as it is today it might change slightly sometime next year um as change slightly sometime next year um as change slightly sometime next year um as we we've removed uh any sort of billing we we've removed uh any sort of billing we we've removed uh any sort of billing or payment uh from the platform so it's or payment uh from the platform so it's or payment uh from the platform so it's free to use 100% through and through um free to use 100% through and through um free to use 100% through and through um and the goal would just be okay you've and the goal would just be okay you've and the goal would just be okay you've used Open sauce we've got this other used Open sauce we've got this other used Open sauce we've got this other thing that's actually geared towards thing that's actually geared towards thing that's actually geared towards your Enterprise use case called the LFX your Enterprise use case called the LFX your Enterprise use case called the LFX uh so there'll be some sort of like uh so there'll be some sort of like uh so there'll be some sort of like converting funnel but we have uh I'm converting funnel but we have uh I'm converting funnel but we have uh I'm about two weeks in so we quite haven't about two weeks in so we quite haven't about two weeks in so we quite haven't got a got that plan together G well got a got that plan together G well got a got that plan together G well thanks for hanging out with me for like thanks for hanging out with me for like thanks for hanging out with me for like uh just being a monthin I wanted to kind uh just being a monthin I wanted to kind uh just being a monthin I wanted to kind of find you as as this happened and I of find you as as this happened and I of find you as as this happened and I appreciate you taking the time how does appreciate you taking the time how does appreciate you taking the time how does it feel like do you like looking back it feel like do you like looking back it feel like do you like looking back are you like this is cool like we're at are you like this is cool like we're at are you like this is cool like we're at the Linux Foundation like the work the Linux Foundation like the work the Linux Foundation like the work continues are you are you happy with continues are you are you happy with continues are you are you happy with just a month of uh of distance yeah I just a month of uh of distance yeah I just a month of uh of distance yeah I I've had a lot of meetings this week to I've had a lot of meetings this week to I've had a lot of meetings this week to kind of figure out like my place um so

kind of figure out like my place um so kind of figure out like my place um so like I I spent a lot of my career as a like I I spent a lot of my career as a like I I spent a lot of my career as a developer uh and then spent quite a bit developer uh and then spent quite a bit developer uh and then spent quite a bit of it as a developer advocate I'm kind of it as a developer advocate I'm kind of it as a developer advocate I'm kind of now morphing into more of a product of now morphing into more of a product of now morphing into more of a product leader role uh today at least at the leader role uh today at least at the leader role uh today at least at the Linux Foundation uh so that's actually Linux Foundation uh so that's actually Linux Foundation uh so that's actually been interesting uh like okay I'm my been interesting uh like okay I'm my been interesting uh like okay I'm my title is head of developer experience so title is head of developer experience so title is head of developer experience so I still got the dev R like okrs I still got the dev R like okrs I still got the dev R like okrs essentially but I also will be essentially but I also will be essentially but I also will be maintaining and owning a product as well maintaining and owning a product as well maintaining and owning a product as well so I'm excited to expand that skill set so I'm excited to expand that skill set so I'm excited to expand that skill set where I could be more Visionary uh and where I could be more Visionary uh and where I could be more Visionary uh and talk about like zero to 60 of a product talk about like zero to 60 of a product talk about like zero to 60 of a product uh when foundations is large uh when foundations is large uh when foundations is large organization there's a lot of organization there's a lot of organization there's a lot of Foundations underneath of it um a lot of Foundations underneath of it um a lot of Foundations underneath of it um a lot of events as well uh so it's already of got events as well uh so it's already of got events as well uh so it's already of got established presence within the established presence within the established presence within the ecosystem so I'm excited to start you ecosystem so I'm excited to start you ecosystem so I'm excited to start you know uh like chatting with folks in know uh like chatting with folks in know uh like chatting with folks in different Linux dros and places I different Linux dros and places I different Linux dros and places I haven't really touch in my career um so haven't really touch in my career um so haven't really touch in my career um so I think I it's bit of a for me it's I think I it's bit of a for me it's I think I it's bit of a for me it's Green Field even though there's a legacy Green Field even though there's a legacy Green Field even though there's a legacy product I'll be working with um just i' product I'll be working with um just i' product I'll be working with um just i' I've got a very positive outlook on the I've got a very positive outlook on the I've got a very positive outlook on the opportunity forward that's awesome and opportunity forward that's awesome and opportunity forward that's awesome and then one question that I've always then one question that I've always then one question that I've always wanted to ask uh and I I am not I have I wanted to ask uh and I I am not I have I wanted to ask uh and I I am not I have I have my gut you have your gut and I am have my gut you have your gut and I am have my gut you have your gut and I am not known for being right when it comes not known for being right when it comes not known for being right when it comes to naming stuff I remember when Rob to naming stuff I remember when Rob to naming stuff I remember when Rob Reynolds who made chocy which is a Reynolds who made chocy which is a Reynolds who made chocy which is a Windows um package manager uh he he Windows um package manager uh he he Windows um package manager uh he he showed it to me like on like within the showed it to me like on like within the showed it to me like on like within the first week or two I'm making this thing first week or two I'm making this thing first week or two I'm making this thing and I'm naming it chocy and I said I

and I'm naming it chocy and I said I and I'm naming it chocy and I said I love it it's amazing the name will never love it it's amazing the name will never love it it's amazing the name will never work and I was wrong and chocolatey is work and I was wrong and chocolatey is work and I was wrong and chocolatey is wildly successful I always thought op wildly successful I always thought op wildly successful I always thought op sa. Pizza might be a self-limiting name sa. Pizza might be a self-limiting name sa. Pizza might be a self-limiting name do you think that was a thing that made do you think that was a thing that made do you think that was a thing that made people take it seriously or take it people take it seriously or take it people take it seriously or take it differently or am I just bad at differently or am I just bad at differently or am I just bad at naming yeah I I I can't speak on your naming yeah I I I can't speak on your naming yeah I I I can't speak on your your batter naming but I would say open your batter naming but I would say open your batter naming but I would say open sauce. pizza originally was a side sauce. pizza originally was a side sauce. pizza originally was a side project that I was like okay pza came project that I was like okay pza came project that I was like okay pza came out in 2017 this would be fun uh an Open out in 2017 this would be fun uh an Open out in 2017 this would be fun uh an Open sauce was taken at the at the time so sauce was taken at the at the time so sauce was taken at the at the time so um that was how the name came about I um that was how the name came about I um that was how the name came about I had I had other name sauce without the D had I had other name sauce without the D had I had other name sauce without the D is what Tak we said yeah without the D is what Tak we said yeah without the D is what Tak we said yeah without the D was taken uh with the D was not um was taken uh with the D was not um was taken uh with the D was not um so I never anticipated like running an so I never anticipated like running an so I never anticipated like running an entire like funded company with this entire like funded company with this entire like funded company with this name but when I actually tested it uh name but when I actually tested it uh name but when I actually tested it uh with like companies like stripe and like with like companies like stripe and like with like companies like stripe and like with uh even with boing um not a lot of with uh even with boing um not a lot of with uh even with boing um not a lot of push back uh even on the VC side so we push back uh even on the VC side so we push back uh even on the VC side so we had built so much brain brand in capital had built so much brain brand in capital had built so much brain brand in capital with it that it was kind of hard to with it that it was kind of hard to with it that it was kind of hard to change at this point uh I will say open change at this point uh I will say open change at this point uh I will say open sauce. pizza when I when I say the do sauce. pizza when I when I say the do sauce. pizza when I when I say the do URL alloud it's very memorable our URL alloud it's very memorable our URL alloud it's very memorable our number one refer to traffic up until we number one refer to traffic up until we number one refer to traffic up until we started doing SEO was direct like typing started doing SEO was direct like typing started doing SEO was direct like typing open sauce. pizza in the in the URL um open sauce. pizza in the in the URL um open sauce. pizza in the in the URL um so for that reason something that's so for that reason something that's so for that reason something that's memorable that distinguishes like memorable that distinguishes like memorable that distinguishes like chocolate is memorable as well things chocolate is memorable as well things chocolate is memorable as well things that like are acronyms or it sounds like

that like are acronyms or it sounds like that like are acronyms or it sounds like developer platform 2 uh what you it's developer platform 2 uh what you it's developer platform 2 uh what you it's could be great Tech but then you hit could be great Tech but then you hit could be great Tech but then you hit your terminal and you're like hey what your terminal and you're like hey what your terminal and you're like hey what was that thing I can't remember it I've was that thing I can't remember it I've was that thing I can't remember it I've got to go like Google or search on got to go like Google or search on got to go like Google or search on Twitter X or something to find out what Twitter X or something to find out what Twitter X or something to find out what the name is um that was it was always the name is um that was it was always the name is um that was it was always the goal was like can it be memorable the goal was like can it be memorable the goal was like can it be memorable can it be identif like identifiable can it be identif like identifiable can it be identif like identifiable amongst the crowd and uh it checked all amongst the crowd and uh it checked all amongst the crowd and uh it checked all the boxes with Open sauce it absolutely the boxes with Open sauce it absolutely the boxes with Open sauce it absolutely checked all the boxes yeah I think I'm checked all the boxes yeah I think I'm checked all the boxes yeah I think I'm bad at naming and you are excellent at bad at naming and you are excellent at bad at naming and you are excellent at naming because do pizza is the move and naming because do pizza is the move and naming because do pizza is the move and succeeded wildly so I I'm very excited succeeded wildly so I I'm very excited succeeded wildly so I I'm very excited uh for you and all your continued uh for you and all your continued uh for you and all your continued success now you are the head of success now you are the head of success now you are the head of developer experience at the Linux developer experience at the Linux developer experience at the Linux Foundation I'm glad your team found Foundation I'm glad your team found Foundation I'm glad your team found places to be and that op sa. Pizza lives places to be and that op sa. Pizza lives places to be and that op sa. Pizza lives on thank you so much Brian Douglas for on thank you so much Brian Douglas for on thank you so much Brian Douglas for hanging out with me today yeah it's a hanging out with me today yeah it's a hanging out with me today yeah it's a pleasure always happy to chat this has pleasure always happy to chat this has pleasure always happy to chat this has been another episode of Hansel minutes been another episode of Hansel minutes been another episode of Hansel minutes and we'll see you again next week and we'll see you again next week and we'll see you again next week [Music] a a [Music]