How to Lead with Value with Dr. Morgan Depenbusch

Hi, I'm Scott Hansselman. This is Hi, I'm Scott Hansselman. This is another episode of Hansel Minutes. Today another episode of Hansel Minutes. Today another episode of Hansel Minutes. Today I'm chatting with Dr. Morgan Deppenbush. I'm chatting with Dr. Morgan Deppenbush. I'm chatting with Dr. Morgan Deppenbush. She works in people analytics at She works in people analytics at She works in people analytics at Snowflake. How are you? Snowflake. How are you? Snowflake. How are you? >> I'm doing well. It's Friday, the sun is >> I'm doing well. It's Friday, the sun is >> I'm doing well. It's Friday, the sun is out, so can't complain. How are you out, so can't complain. How are you out, so can't complain. How are you doing? doing? doing? >> Uh, I am enjoying the sun as well. Well, >> Uh, I am enjoying the sun as well. Well, >> Uh, I am enjoying the sun as well. Well, everyone wins when the sun is out. So, everyone wins when the sun is out. So, everyone wins when the sun is out. So, um I was exploring your LinkedIn and a um I was exploring your LinkedIn and a um I was exploring your LinkedIn and a lot of the conversations that you have lot of the conversations that you have lot of the conversations that you have about how people move within a workspace about how people move within a workspace about how people move within a workspace and it was the perfect time for me to and it was the perfect time for me to and it was the perfect time for me to discover your work because I had just discover your work because I had just discover your work because I had just come back from speaking at a conference come back from speaking at a conference come back from speaking at a conference called Code Path and it felt like a lot called Code Path and it felt like a lot called Code Path and it felt like a lot of young people were struggling with of young people were struggling with of young people were struggling with their careers and having any kind of their careers and having any kind of their careers and having any kind of strategy behind their career because a strategy behind their career because a strategy behind their career because a lot of them were like well I'm early in lot of them were like well I'm early in lot of them were like well I'm early in career how do I provide value? So I went career how do I provide value? So I went career how do I provide value? So I went down this providing value, down this providing value, down this providing value, you know, rabbit hole and I think that's you know, rabbit hole and I think that's you know, rabbit hole and I think that's a space that you're interested in. a space that you're interested in. a space that you're interested in. >> Yes, very much so. It's it's funny >> Yes, very much so. It's it's funny >> Yes, very much so. It's it's funny because I didn't start there or even because I didn't start there or even because I didn't start there or even recently I've been thinking about it too recently I've been thinking about it too recently I've been thinking about it too much. I typically work in the field of much. I typically work in the field of much. I typically work in the field of like data visualization and data like data visualization and data like data visualization and data storytelling, but I was getting all storytelling, but I was getting all storytelling, but I was getting all these questions and every time I gave these questions and every time I gave these questions and every time I gave the answer, it would come back to well, the answer, it would come back to well, the answer, it would come back to well, how can you provide value and how do you how can you provide value and how do you how can you provide value and how do you lead with value? And it was just funny lead with value? And it was just funny lead with value? And it was just funny to me that no matter what the question to me that no matter what the question to me that no matter what the question was, it just kept coming back to that was, it just kept coming back to that was, it just kept coming back to that same answer. And so I started thinking, same answer. And so I started thinking, same answer. And so I started thinking, okay, I think there's something here. I okay, I think there's something here. I okay, I think there's something here. I think there is a theme here, uh, I think think there is a theme here, uh, I think think there is a theme here, uh, I think it's relevant to people whether they're it's relevant to people whether they're it's relevant to people whether they're early in their career or later in their early in their career or later in their early in their career or later in their career. And just kind of really flipping career. And just kind of really flipping career. And just kind of really flipping the script in our mind instead of how do the script in our mind instead of how do the script in our mind instead of how do I, you know, get my my point across? How

I, you know, get my my point across? How I, you know, get my my point across? How do I make sure they take my do I make sure they take my do I make sure they take my recommendation? How do I, you know, make recommendation? How do I, you know, make recommendation? How do I, you know, make the best report and everyone loves my the best report and everyone loves my the best report and everyone loves my ideas? and changing that to how do I ideas? and changing that to how do I ideas? and changing that to how do I provide value right now in this moment provide value right now in this moment provide value right now in this moment and I think that just totally changes and I think that just totally changes and I think that just totally changes your your mindset and your approach to your your mindset and your approach to your your mindset and your approach to your work to your interactions at work your work to your interactions at work your work to your interactions at work and so I too have now been going down and so I too have now been going down and so I too have now been going down this rabbit hole the idea of how can we this rabbit hole the idea of how can we this rabbit hole the idea of how can we start with value and what is value and start with value and what is value and start with value and what is value and what does that look like at different what does that look like at different what does that look like at different points in your career points in your career points in your career >> it also requires one to be for lack of a >> it also requires one to be for lack of a >> it also requires one to be for lack of a better word present and like awake in better word present and like awake in better word present and like awake in the moment you know what I mean like the moment you know what I mean like the moment you know what I mean like sometimes I feel like I'm maybe not sometimes I feel like I'm maybe not sometimes I feel like I'm maybe not present in the meeting. And I don't mean present in the meeting. And I don't mean present in the meeting. And I don't mean not paying attention, but I just mean not paying attention, but I just mean not paying attention, but I just mean leading with the id versus the ego, I leading with the id versus the ego, I leading with the id versus the ego, I guess. guess. guess. >> And uh I'm I'm thinking about like >> And uh I'm I'm thinking about like >> And uh I'm I'm thinking about like they're not listening to me. they're not listening to me. they're not listening to me. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> My idea is not coming across. If they >> My idea is not coming across. If they >> My idea is not coming across. If they would just shut up and listen, so then I would just shut up and listen, so then I would just shut up and listen, so then I might have a louder argument or try to might have a louder argument or try to might have a louder argument or try to like rephrase the topic, but in doing like rephrase the topic, but in doing like rephrase the topic, but in doing that, I don't think I'm necessarily that, I don't think I'm necessarily that, I don't think I'm necessarily providing value for what is helpful to providing value for what is helpful to providing value for what is helpful to them right now.

them right now. them right now. >> Yeah. And it's like the idea of active >> Yeah. And it's like the idea of active >> Yeah. And it's like the idea of active listening, right? We go into listening, right? We go into listening, right? We go into conversations and when someone else is conversations and when someone else is conversations and when someone else is talking, you're just thinking about, talking, you're just thinking about, talking, you're just thinking about, okay, what what am I going to say next? okay, what what am I going to say next? okay, what what am I going to say next? And when can I interject and when can I And when can I interject and when can I And when can I interject and when can I say it versus saying, no, what are they say it versus saying, no, what are they say it versus saying, no, what are they really saying and how can you listen to really saying and how can you listen to really saying and how can you listen to the the point they're making, but also the the point they're making, but also the the point they're making, but also maybe the point behind the point, right? maybe the point behind the point, right? maybe the point behind the point, right? And then how can you respond to that? And then how can you respond to that? And then how can you respond to that? But so many of us go into those But so many of us go into those But so many of us go into those conversations and those meetings saying, conversations and those meetings saying, conversations and those meetings saying, "I'm going in. This is my "I'm going in. This is my "I'm going in. This is my recommendation. This is what I want them recommendation. This is what I want them recommendation. This is what I want them to know. This is what I want to show to know. This is what I want to show to know. This is what I want to show them all the hard work I did." And them all the hard work I did." And them all the hard work I did." And you're just waiting for your moment to you're just waiting for your moment to you're just waiting for your moment to to show that versus saying, "Okay, to show that versus saying, "Okay, to show that versus saying, "Okay, what's actually needed right now?" But what's actually needed right now?" But what's actually needed right now?" But isn't that so this is the thing are we isn't that so this is the thing are we isn't that so this is the thing are we are you asking or are we being asked to are you asking or are we being asked to are you asking or are we being asked to go against what is natural human nature go against what is natural human nature go against what is natural human nature like it is intuitive to want to be me like it is intuitive to want to be me like it is intuitive to want to be me focused focused focused >> a little bit but I think that's what >> a little bit but I think that's what >> a little bit but I think that's what going to make it more so powerful is going to make it more so powerful is going to make it more so powerful is because everyone else is going to because everyone else is going to because everyone else is going to approach these conversations from how do approach these conversations from how do approach these conversations from how do I how do I get my point across how do I I how do I get my point across how do I I how do I get my point across how do I you know win in this conversation but if you know win in this conversation but if you know win in this conversation but if you're the one who goes in there and you're the one who goes in there and you're the one who goes in there and says how can I provide value to what is says how can I provide value to what is says how can I provide value to what is important to the people I'm talking to important to the people I'm talking to important to the people I'm talking to meeting with presenting to right now, meeting with presenting to right now, meeting with presenting to right now, you're going to instantly stand out. Uh you're going to instantly stand out. Uh you're going to instantly stand out. Uh because everyone is going to go into because everyone is going to go into because everyone is going to go into those meetings saying, "I have my those meetings saying, "I have my those meetings saying, "I have my recommendation. I have the work I want recommendation. I have the work I want recommendation. I have the work I want to show and my only goal for this to show and my only goal for this to show and my only goal for this meeting is to get that point across."

meeting is to get that point across." meeting is to get that point across." But if you're someone who goes in and But if you're someone who goes in and But if you're someone who goes in and says, "I'm really going to listen to says, "I'm really going to listen to says, "I'm really going to listen to what is what is the problem? What is the what is what is the problem? What is the what is what is the problem? What is the goal? What is their pain point? Do I goal? What is their pain point? Do I goal? What is their pain point? Do I understand that? And how can I understand that? And how can I understand that? And how can I contribute my unique skills or knowledge contribute my unique skills or knowledge contribute my unique skills or knowledge to help achieve that goal that's going to help achieve that goal that's going to help achieve that goal that's going to help you stand out?" But it's hard to to help you stand out?" But it's hard to to help you stand out?" But it's hard to do because it's not our human nature. do because it's not our human nature. do because it's not our human nature. Our human nature is it's a dog eat dog Our human nature is it's a dog eat dog Our human nature is it's a dog eat dog world, you know, especially right now in world, you know, especially right now in world, you know, especially right now in tech. It's very competitive and you just tech. It's very competitive and you just tech. It's very competitive and you just go into it thinking, how do I survive? go into it thinking, how do I survive? go into it thinking, how do I survive? How do I kind of get ahead? How do I be How do I kind of get ahead? How do I be How do I kind of get ahead? How do I be the one who gets chosen for this job, the one who gets chosen for this job, the one who gets chosen for this job, chosen for this promotion? So, you have chosen for this promotion? So, you have chosen for this promotion? So, you have to override a lot of those instincts. to override a lot of those instincts. to override a lot of those instincts. And the irony in it is when you do, And the irony in it is when you do, And the irony in it is when you do, you're more likely to actually get those you're more likely to actually get those you're more likely to actually get those goals you're going after when you flip goals you're going after when you flip goals you're going after when you flip and you start from what do what do they and you start from what do what do they and you start from what do what do they need? How can I provide value? and then need? How can I provide value? and then need? How can I provide value? and then you are more likely to get that job, get you are more likely to get that job, get you are more likely to get that job, get that promotion, kind of be seen as more that promotion, kind of be seen as more that promotion, kind of be seen as more of a of a partner. of a of a partner. of a of a partner. >> You do make a really challenging point >> You do make a really challenging point >> You do make a really challenging point though that we are in a time when people though that we are in a time when people though that we are in a time when people are nervous about their jobs, about the are nervous about their jobs, about the are nervous about their jobs, about the industry, about industry, about industry, about >> um their being cemented as being a >> um their being cemented as being a >> um their being cemented as being a person that is a useful person at the person that is a useful person at the person that is a useful person at the company so I won't be laid off. So to be company so I won't be laid off. So to be company so I won't be laid off. So to be selfish and self-focused and turn inward selfish and self-focused and turn inward selfish and self-focused and turn inward in order to protect oneself in a space in order to protect oneself in a space in order to protect oneself in a space is a very natural thing to do. And to go is a very natural thing to do. And to go is a very natural thing to do. And to go and say, "No, no, focus on other people and say, "No, no, focus on other people and say, "No, no, focus on other people and what would be helpful to them right and what would be helpful to them right and what would be helpful to them right now now now >> is a is a leap you're asking them to >> is a is a leap you're asking them to >> is a is a leap you're asking them to make kind of without a parachute." And make kind of without a parachute." And make kind of without a parachute." And they may not necessarily have the the they may not necessarily have the the they may not necessarily have the the privilege or the paychecks in the bank privilege or the paychecks in the bank privilege or the paychecks in the bank to be able to do that, but you're still to be able to do that, but you're still to be able to do that, but you're still thinking, thinking, thinking, >> let me give an example. So, I get a lot

>> let me give an example. So, I get a lot >> let me give an example. So, I get a lot of I get a lot of DMs on LinkedIn that of I get a lot of DMs on LinkedIn that of I get a lot of DMs on LinkedIn that say, "Will you be my mentor?" And some say, "Will you be my mentor?" And some say, "Will you be my mentor?" And some will literally just be a message that will literally just be a message that will literally just be a message that says, "Will you be my mentor, please? I says, "Will you be my mentor, please? I says, "Will you be my mentor, please? I want a mentor." Do I respond to those? want a mentor." Do I respond to those? want a mentor." Do I respond to those? No, not usually because I'm I'm like I'm No, not usually because I'm I'm like I'm No, not usually because I'm I'm like I'm I don't think I even be a good mentor to I don't think I even be a good mentor to I don't think I even be a good mentor to you cuz I don't know you. I don't know you cuz I don't know you. I don't know you cuz I don't know you. I don't know what you're working on. Um and so they what you're working on. Um and so they what you're working on. Um and so they came at that with a meat trick, right? came at that with a meat trick, right? came at that with a meat trick, right? Like my goal is to get a mentor. I want Like my goal is to get a mentor. I want Like my goal is to get a mentor. I want this person to be my mentor. So I'm this person to be my mentor. So I'm this person to be my mentor. So I'm going to ask for that. That's my going to ask for that. That's my going to ask for that. That's my outcome. I have also gotten requests. Uh outcome. I have also gotten requests. Uh outcome. I have also gotten requests. Uh one person comes to mind. He started one person comes to mind. He started one person comes to mind. He started sending me DMs saying, "Hey, I know you sending me DMs saying, "Hey, I know you sending me DMs saying, "Hey, I know you love data visualization. Here's this new love data visualization. Here's this new love data visualization. Here's this new tool that just came out. I don't know if tool that just came out. I don't know if tool that just came out. I don't know if you're aware of it. Thought you might you're aware of it. Thought you might you're aware of it. Thought you might want to check it out." Then a couple want to check it out." Then a couple want to check it out." Then a couple days later, he responds, "Oh, this days later, he responds, "Oh, this days later, he responds, "Oh, this article just came out. I think you'd article just came out. I think you'd article just came out. I think you'd find it really interesting." he will find it really interesting." he will find it really interesting." he will respond to my post with insightful respond to my post with insightful respond to my post with insightful comments. And so I was like, "Oh," we comments. And so I was like, "Oh," we comments. And so I was like, "Oh," we started having conversations and he just started having conversations and he just started having conversations and he just every couple days, every couple weeks, every couple days, every couple weeks, every couple days, every couple weeks, he would drop a resource that I might he would drop a resource that I might he would drop a resource that I might thought would be interesting. He might thought would be interesting. He might thought would be interesting. He might share some feedback on like, "Oh, this share some feedback on like, "Oh, this share some feedback on like, "Oh, this post really resonated because I'm at post really resonated because I'm at post really resonated because I'm at this point in my career." And so it this point in my career." And so it this point in my career." And so it naturally kind of evolved into he was naturally kind of evolved into he was naturally kind of evolved into he was leaning with value to me, right? But leaning with value to me, right? But leaning with value to me, right? But then I reciprocate and I say, "You know then I reciprocate and I say, "You know then I reciprocate and I say, "You know what? What's helpful to you? What what? What's helpful to you? What what? What's helpful to you? What questions do you have?" And he would questions do you have?" And he would questions do you have?" And he would say, "Oh, I have this presentation. Can say, "Oh, I have this presentation. Can say, "Oh, I have this presentation. Can you give me feedback?" or I made a data you give me feedback?" or I made a data you give me feedback?" or I made a data viz course and I said I know you're viz course and I said I know you're viz course and I said I know you're trying to grow those skills. I can send trying to grow those skills. I can send trying to grow those skills. I can send this to you for free and in exchange this to you for free and in exchange this to you for free and in exchange just give me any feedback. Was this just give me any feedback. Was this just give me any feedback. Was this helpful? Was there anything that you helpful? Was there anything that you helpful? Was there anything that you think I should add to it? Right? So in a think I should add to it? Right? So in a think I should add to it? Right? So in a way he kind of crafted that relationship way he kind of crafted that relationship way he kind of crafted that relationship that he probably was hoping for because that he probably was hoping for because that he probably was hoping for because he started with how can I give value to he started with how can I give value to he started with how can I give value to this person and he stood out among this person and he stood out among this person and he stood out among everyone else who's just saying the everyone else who's just saying the everyone else who's just saying the messages hi can we connect will you be

messages hi can we connect will you be messages hi can we connect will you be my mentor or hi I have a question can we my mentor or hi I have a question can we my mentor or hi I have a question can we coffee chat for 15 minutes right? So it coffee chat for 15 minutes right? So it coffee chat for 15 minutes right? So it it maybe took a little bit longer. You it maybe took a little bit longer. You it maybe took a little bit longer. You don't just say, "Hey, can I be a don't just say, "Hey, can I be a don't just say, "Hey, can I be a mentor?" Yes, I shall mentor you. Right? mentor?" Yes, I shall mentor you. Right? mentor?" Yes, I shall mentor you. Right? But you get the outcome that you're But you get the outcome that you're But you get the outcome that you're looking for because you started with looking for because you started with looking for because you started with value to the other person. value to the other person. value to the other person. >> That really speaks to a lot of the >> That really speaks to a lot of the >> That really speaks to a lot of the situations that I've come into. I get a situations that I've come into. I get a situations that I've come into. I get a lot of pick your brain things. Like I've lot of pick your brain things. Like I've lot of pick your brain things. Like I've I've gotten to the point where now can I I've gotten to the point where now can I I've gotten to the point where now can I pick your brain is actively irritating pick your brain is actively irritating pick your brain is actively irritating to me to me to me >> because it's it's unfocused. It has no >> because it's it's unfocused. It has no >> because it's it's unfocused. It has no direction. It is meentric, but also it direction. It is meentric, but also it direction. It is meentric, but also it doesn't have any respect for the other doesn't have any respect for the other doesn't have any respect for the other person's time. person's time. person's time. >> Yeah. It doesn't mean that I'm not like >> Yeah. It doesn't mean that I'm not like >> Yeah. It doesn't mean that I'm not like not busy like there's there are there is not busy like there's there are there is not busy like there's there are there is downtime but if a total stranger says downtime but if a total stranger says downtime but if a total stranger says can I pick your brain along with another can I pick your brain along with another can I pick your brain along with another thousand strangers that also want to thousand strangers that also want to thousand strangers that also want to pick your brain there's no value there pick your brain there's no value there pick your brain there's no value there so this is a digital person showing up so this is a digital person showing up so this is a digital person showing up in a digital space you haven't met this in a digital space you haven't met this in a digital space you haven't met this person yet person yet person yet >> but this is about showing up and we >> but this is about showing up and we >> but this is about showing up and we always hear that that idea that like always hear that that idea that like always hear that that idea that like half of life is just showing up being half of life is just showing up being half of life is just showing up being present do you think that this same kind present do you think that this same kind present do you think that this same kind of networking that you've described of networking that you've described of networking that you've described works in a physical works in a physical works in a physical like the you see someone at a meetup or like the you see someone at a meetup or like the you see someone at a meetup or at a professional event, you sleep, at a professional event, you sleep, at a professional event, you sleep, couple of days goes by, you see them couple of days goes by, you see them couple of days goes by, you see them again. That happens over a couple of again. That happens over a couple of again. That happens over a couple of weeks, you're like, "Oh, you keep weeks, you're like, "Oh, you keep weeks, you're like, "Oh, you keep showing up in the same spaces, the same showing up in the same spaces, the same showing up in the same spaces, the same meetups, the data visualization user meetups, the data visualization user meetups, the data visualization user groups or the conferences." That makes groups or the conferences." That makes groups or the conferences." That makes them safer and it's a more natural, them safer and it's a more natural, them safer and it's a more natural, reasonable next step is to like have a reasonable next step is to like have a reasonable next step is to like have a coffee chat, which is step nine that coffee chat, which is step nine that coffee chat, which is step nine that they typically reach out with on step they typically reach out with on step they typically reach out with on step zero.

zero. zero. >> Exactly. And I mean it's it's the same >> Exactly. And I mean it's it's the same >> Exactly. And I mean it's it's the same idea of how are you give value. It idea of how are you give value. It idea of how are you give value. It doesn't matter if it's digital or face doesn't matter if it's digital or face doesn't matter if it's digital or face tof face or in a meeting, right? It's tof face or in a meeting, right? It's tof face or in a meeting, right? It's the same idea of can you give someone the same idea of can you give someone the same idea of can you give someone feedback? Can you give them a resource? feedback? Can you give them a resource? feedback? Can you give them a resource? Say you're at a meetup and someone makes Say you're at a meetup and someone makes Say you're at a meetup and someone makes a good point and afterwards you pull a good point and afterwards you pull a good point and afterwards you pull them aside and said, "Wow, that idea you them aside and said, "Wow, that idea you them aside and said, "Wow, that idea you had about XYZ that really resonated with had about XYZ that really resonated with had about XYZ that really resonated with me." And even that is value because you me." And even that is value because you me." And even that is value because you just gave them feedback. You probably just gave them feedback. You probably just gave them feedback. You probably made them feel pretty good that what made them feel pretty good that what made them feel pretty good that what they said was actually helpful, right? they said was actually helpful, right? they said was actually helpful, right? Right? And they'll remember you because Right? And they'll remember you because Right? And they'll remember you because they'll say, "Wow, that was really nice they'll say, "Wow, that was really nice they'll say, "Wow, that was really nice to hear that person like what I said to hear that person like what I said to hear that person like what I said resonated with that person that I helped resonated with that person that I helped resonated with that person that I helped them." Right? And maybe they also say, them." Right? And maybe they also say, them." Right? And maybe they also say, "Have you considered XYZ?" Or, "You "Have you considered XYZ?" Or, "You "Have you considered XYZ?" Or, "You might like this book or you might want might like this book or you might want might like this book or you might want to meet this person who's talking about to meet this person who's talking about to meet this person who's talking about similar ideas." Right? So, you don't similar ideas." Right? So, you don't similar ideas." Right? So, you don't even have to be an expert in the space even have to be an expert in the space even have to be an expert in the space that you're giving value on. You can be that you're giving value on. You can be that you're giving value on. You can be someone who just shares ideas, who's a someone who just shares ideas, who's a someone who just shares ideas, who's a connector, who passes along resources, connector, who passes along resources, connector, who passes along resources, and they'll remember you, and then you and they'll remember you, and then you and they'll remember you, and then you run into them again, and they say, "Oh, run into them again, and they say, "Oh, run into them again, and they say, "Oh, yeah. Thank you. You know, I did check yeah. Thank you. You know, I did check yeah. Thank you. You know, I did check out that book, and it was so helpful." out that book, and it was so helpful." out that book, and it was so helpful." or you know that YouTube video you sent or you know that YouTube video you sent or you know that YouTube video you sent me or that feedback really is stuck in me or that feedback really is stuck in me or that feedback really is stuck in my mind that was helpful and you just my mind that was helpful and you just my mind that was helpful and you just keep doing that. You keep planting those keep doing that. You keep planting those keep doing that. You keep planting those seeds and just pouring in to that other seeds and just pouring in to that other seeds and just pouring in to that other person and they're going to want to person and they're going to want to person and they're going to want to reciprocate in one way or another, reciprocate in one way or another, reciprocate in one way or another, right? If when an idea comes to mind, right? If when an idea comes to mind, right? If when an idea comes to mind, they want to share it back with you. If they want to share it back with you. If they want to share it back with you. If there's an opportunity, they might ask there's an opportunity, they might ask there's an opportunity, they might ask if you're interested. And so when you if you're interested. And so when you if you're interested. And so when you start planting those seeds and you're start planting those seeds and you're start planting those seeds and you're just saying, "How can I support this just saying, "How can I support this just saying, "How can I support this person? How can I pour into them? How person? How can I pour into them? How person? How can I pour into them? How can I help them? How can I encourage can I help them? How can I encourage can I help them? How can I encourage them? How can I provide resources or them? How can I provide resources or them? How can I provide resources or tools that they might enjoy? You're tools that they might enjoy? You're tools that they might enjoy? You're going to build that relationship much going to build that relationship much going to build that relationship much more naturally than just saying, "Hey, more naturally than just saying, "Hey, more naturally than just saying, "Hey, it was nice to meet you. Can we have a it was nice to meet you. Can we have a it was nice to meet you. Can we have a coffee chat?" and keep talking.

coffee chat?" and keep talking. coffee chat?" and keep talking. >> You've used this phrase before being a >> You've used this phrase before being a >> You've used this phrase before being a thought partner versus a task completer. thought partner versus a task completer. thought partner versus a task completer. >> And everyone's freaking out about AI >> And everyone's freaking out about AI >> And everyone's freaking out about AI very likely, rightfully so. And I think very likely, rightfully so. And I think very likely, rightfully so. And I think of AI as being kind of a task completer. of AI as being kind of a task completer. of AI as being kind of a task completer. I think that for for wrote work, we're I think that for for wrote work, we're I think that for for wrote work, we're going to ask it to go off and do a going to ask it to go off and do a going to ask it to go off and do a thing. But people are my favorite thing. But people are my favorite thing. But people are my favorite thought partners and I really like the thought partners and I really like the thought partners and I really like the idea that value is being a thought idea that value is being a thought idea that value is being a thought partner. Maybe you can expand on that partner. Maybe you can expand on that partner. Maybe you can expand on that idea. idea. idea. >> Yeah. So I I I wouldn't want there to be >> Yeah. So I I I wouldn't want there to be >> Yeah. So I I I wouldn't want there to be this I want someone's takeaway to be this I want someone's takeaway to be this I want someone's takeaway to be value is I'm just going to do anything I value is I'm just going to do anything I value is I'm just going to do anything I can to help someone achieve their end can to help someone achieve their end can to help someone achieve their end goal, right? Because you're not just a goal, right? Because you're not just a goal, right? Because you're not just a task completer. Someone says I need XYZ task completer. Someone says I need XYZ task completer. Someone says I need XYZ and you go do XYZ because maybe that's and you go do XYZ because maybe that's and you go do XYZ because maybe that's not actually what is going to help them not actually what is going to help them not actually what is going to help them achieve their goal, achieve their goal, achieve their goal, >> right? So you can be someone who says >> right? So you can be someone who says >> right? So you can be someone who says interesting. What are you trying to do interesting. What are you trying to do interesting. What are you trying to do with that? What is the goal you're with that? What is the goal you're with that? What is the goal you're trying to achieve? Hm. Maybe have we trying to achieve? Hm. Maybe have we trying to achieve? Hm. Maybe have we considered doing this? Oh, we could do considered doing this? Oh, we could do considered doing this? Oh, we could do XYZ, but there's some risks to that. So, XYZ, but there's some risks to that. So, XYZ, but there's some risks to that. So, you help them kind of work through some you help them kind of work through some you help them kind of work through some of their assumptions. Maybe you're of their assumptions. Maybe you're of their assumptions. Maybe you're helping talk about resources that you helping talk about resources that you helping talk about resources that you know that could help. It's not just a know that could help. It's not just a know that could help. It's not just a matter of, you know, they say, I I need matter of, you know, they say, I I need matter of, you know, they say, I I need to achieve this sales target. Go pull to achieve this sales target. Go pull to achieve this sales target. Go pull this data for me. You know, yes, sir.

this data for me. You know, yes, sir. this data for me. You know, yes, sir. Yes, ma'am. And you go do it. That's not Yes, ma'am. And you go do it. That's not Yes, ma'am. And you go do it. That's not really Maybe that's adding value in that really Maybe that's adding value in that really Maybe that's adding value in that little moment, but that's not the bigger little moment, but that's not the bigger little moment, but that's not the bigger idea of interesting. Okay, I did that idea of interesting. Okay, I did that idea of interesting. Okay, I did that poll for you, but what are you really poll for you, but what are you really poll for you, but what are you really trying to understand? Because there trying to understand? Because there trying to understand? Because there might be other things we could look at might be other things we could look at might be other things we could look at or there might be past research we've or there might be past research we've or there might be past research we've done internally, externally that could done internally, externally that could done internally, externally that could help answer this question. And so, it's help answer this question. And so, it's help answer this question. And so, it's helping people also think through what helping people also think through what helping people also think through what are we really trying to get at here and are we really trying to get at here and are we really trying to get at here and what are other avenues we could explore? what are other avenues we could explore? what are other avenues we could explore? What are assumptions we're making to get What are assumptions we're making to get What are assumptions we're making to get there versus just saying, "Okay, I'll go there versus just saying, "Okay, I'll go there versus just saying, "Okay, I'll go do the XYZ task that you've asked for do the XYZ task that you've asked for do the XYZ task that you've asked for and now, you know, poof, I've added and now, you know, poof, I've added and now, you know, poof, I've added value." Sometimes, sometimes not. value." Sometimes, sometimes not. value." Sometimes, sometimes not. >> Yeah. Like I mean if your job is >> Yeah. Like I mean if your job is >> Yeah. Like I mean if your job is executive assistant and your job is to executive assistant and your job is to executive assistant and your job is to say yes to everything say yes to everything say yes to everything >> yeah you probably should >> yeah you probably should >> yeah you probably should >> you probably should do those things >> you probably should do those things >> you probably should do those things right but you you certainly don't like right but you you certainly don't like right but you you certainly don't like there's a sense amongst early and career there's a sense amongst early and career there's a sense amongst early and career people right now that they're constantly people right now that they're constantly people right now that they're constantly trying to prove their worth trying to prove their worth trying to prove their worth >> and also overwork which I'm finding to >> and also overwork which I'm finding to >> and also overwork which I'm finding to be really challenging because I want to be really challenging because I want to be really challenging because I want to provide value but I also don't want to provide value but I also don't want to provide value but I also don't want to lose 10 years of my life and work 60 lose 10 years of my life and work 60 lose 10 years of my life and work 60 hours a week like I don't think that's hours a week like I don't think that's hours a week like I don't think that's always a good idea.

always a good idea. always a good idea. >> Yep. Yep. I agree. I think having those >> Yep. Yep. I agree. I think having those >> Yep. Yep. I agree. I think having those boundaries are so important um for boundaries are so important um for boundaries are so important um for yourself and for just setting up the yourself and for just setting up the yourself and for just setting up the relationship with people. Um but there's relationship with people. Um but there's relationship with people. Um but there's also always a balance especially when also always a balance especially when also always a balance especially when you're building that rapport. So I've you're building that rapport. So I've you're building that rapport. So I've started working with a new a new partner started working with a new a new partner started working with a new a new partner at at work and they you know they ask at at work and they you know they ask at at work and they you know they ask for can we we do a data poll and it's for can we we do a data poll and it's for can we we do a data poll and it's normally not something that might be in normally not something that might be in normally not something that might be in our team's wheelhouse but it takes me our team's wheelhouse but it takes me our team's wheelhouse but it takes me maybe an hour to do. It builds that maybe an hour to do. It builds that maybe an hour to do. It builds that quick win. It shows yes I'm here to help quick win. It shows yes I'm here to help quick win. It shows yes I'm here to help you and support you. and you say, "Okay, you and support you. and you say, "Okay, you and support you. and you say, "Okay, we pulled this." It also brought up we pulled this." It also brought up we pulled this." It also brought up these questions. Are you thinking about these questions. Are you thinking about these questions. Are you thinking about this? Would it be helpful if we kind of this? Would it be helpful if we kind of this? Would it be helpful if we kind of explored this next? Right? So, it's not explored this next? Right? So, it's not explored this next? Right? So, it's not always about being the the contrarian or always about being the the contrarian or always about being the the contrarian or saying, "No, no, no, I don't do tasks. saying, "No, no, no, I don't do tasks. saying, "No, no, no, I don't do tasks. Let me let me, you know, partner with Let me let me, you know, partner with Let me let me, you know, partner with you on your thoughts." It's it's you on your thoughts." It's it's you on your thoughts." It's it's sometimes it's saying, "Okay, maybe sometimes it's saying, "Okay, maybe sometimes it's saying, "Okay, maybe you're going to do some of those XYZ you're going to do some of those XYZ you're going to do some of those XYZ tasks." But you're building that bridge. tasks." But you're building that bridge. tasks." But you're building that bridge. You're building that rapport. So you You're building that rapport. So you You're building that rapport. So you kind of earn the respect and the kind of earn the respect and the kind of earn the respect and the credibility to be a sounding board to credibility to be a sounding board to credibility to be a sounding board to them to push back when you think it's them to push back when you think it's them to push back when you think it's really time to push back. really time to push back. really time to push back. >> I feel like people don't talk enough >> I feel like people don't talk enough >> I feel like people don't talk enough about rapport. Like rapport doesn't about rapport. Like rapport doesn't about rapport. Like rapport doesn't necessarily mean making uppercase F necessarily mean making uppercase F necessarily mean making uppercase F friends at work.

friends at work. friends at work. >> It doesn't necessarily mean inviting >> It doesn't necessarily mean inviting >> It doesn't necessarily mean inviting everyone over for dinner. Like rapport everyone over for dinner. Like rapport everyone over for dinner. Like rapport is just having someone know that like, is just having someone know that like, is just having someone know that like, yeah, yeah, yeah, >> Morgan gets it. Like when I want to >> Morgan gets it. Like when I want to >> Morgan gets it. Like when I want to brainstorm, when I'm ready to work on a brainstorm, when I'm ready to work on a brainstorm, when I'm ready to work on a project, it's like doing group projects project, it's like doing group projects project, it's like doing group projects in high school or college. There's in high school or college. There's in high school or college. There's always that person that didn't do always that person that didn't do always that person that didn't do anything, but they were in the group. anything, but they were in the group. anything, but they were in the group. There's always the person who carried There's always the person who carried There's always the person who carried the group in the group project, but you the group in the group project, but you the group in the group project, but you want your work friends, your work people want your work friends, your work people want your work friends, your work people to be allies, to be cheerleaders. They to be allies, to be cheerleaders. They to be allies, to be cheerleaders. They sit with you and they build up a group sit with you and they build up a group sit with you and they build up a group and you're like, "Yeah, let's do it. and you're like, "Yeah, let's do it. and you're like, "Yeah, let's do it. Let's do this group again. Let's do Let's do this group again. Let's do Let's do this group again. Let's do another project." another project." another project." >> I want Yes. And people at work. I don't >> I want Yes. And people at work. I don't >> I want Yes. And people at work. I don't want stop energy. want stop energy. want stop energy. >> Yep. Or I want people to say, "I'm >> Yep. Or I want people to say, "I'm >> Yep. Or I want people to say, "I'm aligning with you on this end goal. aligning with you on this end goal. aligning with you on this end goal. Maybe the path that you've laid out Maybe the path that you've laid out Maybe the path that you've laid out isn't the the right way, but I have isn't the the right way, but I have isn't the the right way, but I have another idea to still achieve that end another idea to still achieve that end another idea to still achieve that end goal. So, I would much rather go to goal. So, I would much rather go to goal. So, I would much rather go to someone and say, "Hey, we're really someone and say, "Hey, we're really someone and say, "Hey, we're really trying to understand what's going on trying to understand what's going on trying to understand what's going on with attrition, and can you go do an with attrition, and can you go do an with attrition, and can you go do an analysis on XYZ?" I would much rather analysis on XYZ?" I would much rather analysis on XYZ?" I would much rather them come back to me and say, you know, them come back to me and say, you know, them come back to me and say, you know, we could do that, but if we really want we could do that, but if we really want we could do that, but if we really want to understand this goal of attrition, I to understand this goal of attrition, I to understand this goal of attrition, I think there's more value in looking over think there's more value in looking over think there's more value in looking over here. That to me signals much more of a here. That to me signals much more of a here. That to me signals much more of a thought partner of value because I'm thought partner of value because I'm thought partner of value because I'm like, "Okay, you understand my goal. You like, "Okay, you understand my goal. You like, "Okay, you understand my goal. You understand what I'm really trying to do understand what I'm really trying to do understand what I'm really trying to do here." versus someone say, "Okay, I here." versus someone say, "Okay, I here." versus someone say, "Okay, I pulled XYZ. Here you go." And it doesn't pulled XYZ. Here you go." And it doesn't pulled XYZ. Here you go." And it doesn't actually help me achieve my end goal of actually help me achieve my end goal of actually help me achieve my end goal of attrition because it was, you know, you attrition because it was, you know, you attrition because it was, you know, you know, an assumption I made or it wasn't know, an assumption I made or it wasn't know, an assumption I made or it wasn't the right right analysis. So when the right right analysis. So when the right right analysis. So when someone can come back and even if I were someone can come back and even if I were someone can come back and even if I were to respond to them and say, "No, I I to respond to them and say, "No, I I to respond to them and say, "No, I I think it is XYZ. I think we really think it is XYZ. I think we really think it is XYZ. I think we really should go that route, but thank you." I

should go that route, but thank you." I should go that route, but thank you." I still know that they are they understood still know that they are they understood still know that they are they understood my goal in the end and they're thinking my goal in the end and they're thinking my goal in the end and they're thinking about that and they're starting with about that and they're starting with about that and they're starting with that. And then maybe they come back to that. And then maybe they come back to that. And then maybe they come back to me in two weeks and say, "Hey, this me in two weeks and say, "Hey, this me in two weeks and say, "Hey, this other research just came out or this other research just came out or this other research just came out or this data point came up. I know you're data point came up. I know you're data point came up. I know you're worried about attrition. You might be worried about attrition. You might be worried about attrition. You might be interested in this." Right? Then I say, interested in this." Right? Then I say, interested in this." Right? Then I say, "Oh, they get it. They know this is on "Oh, they get it. They know this is on "Oh, they get it. They know this is on my mind." Whether or not I even use that my mind." Whether or not I even use that my mind." Whether or not I even use that data point or that research is data point or that research is data point or that research is irrelevant at that point. I know this irrelevant at that point. I know this irrelevant at that point. I know this person has my best interests at heart in person has my best interests at heart in person has my best interests at heart in that way and they're thinking about my that way and they're thinking about my that way and they're thinking about my goals. And now if I have a a big high goals. And now if I have a a big high goals. And now if I have a a big high stakes project coming up or I need to stakes project coming up or I need to stakes project coming up or I need to look at this more, I'm going to go to look at this more, I'm going to go to look at this more, I'm going to go to that person. So I'm like, they know my that person. So I'm like, they know my that person. So I'm like, they know my goal. They're thinking about it too, goal. They're thinking about it too, goal. They're thinking about it too, >> right? And and you also you didn't >> right? And and you also you didn't >> right? And and you also you didn't ignore their perspective. You didn't ignore their perspective. You didn't ignore their perspective. You didn't minimize their perspective. It was given minimize their perspective. It was given minimize their perspective. It was given the respect it deserves. Even though um the respect it deserves. Even though um the respect it deserves. Even though um it you may have disagreed and committed it you may have disagreed and committed it you may have disagreed and committed to something else. to something else. to something else. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> There's there's this phrase that we used >> There's there's this phrase that we used >> There's there's this phrase that we used to use at Intel which is called disagree to use at Intel which is called disagree to use at Intel which is called disagree and commit where it's like everyone gets and commit where it's like everyone gets and commit where it's like everyone gets heard. Everyone gets to argue and fight, heard. Everyone gets to argue and fight, heard. Everyone gets to argue and fight, you know, and we'll all go to lunch you know, and we'll all go to lunch you know, and we'll all go to lunch later and no one's feelings gets hurt. later and no one's feelings gets hurt. later and no one's feelings gets hurt. But disagree and commit. It's like okay, But disagree and commit. It's like okay, But disagree and commit. It's like okay, Morgan, I get that you feel strongly Morgan, I get that you feel strongly Morgan, I get that you feel strongly about this. We're going to go a about this. We're going to go a about this. We're going to go a different way. we hear you, but now different way. we hear you, but now different way. we hear you, but now we're going to disagree and commit to a we're going to disagree and commit to a we're going to disagree and commit to a thing that we've all decided to go. And thing that we've all decided to go. And thing that we've all decided to go. And that's hard. That's hard work for any that's hard. That's hard work for any that's hard. That's hard work for any early in career or later in career early in career or later in career early in career or later in career because it's like, man, they didn't they because it's like, man, they didn't they because it's like, man, they didn't they didn't pick my idea. Maybe now I don't didn't pick my idea. Maybe now I don't didn't pick my idea. Maybe now I don't provide value.

provide value. provide value. >> Yeah. Well, then that you're going back >> Yeah. Well, then that you're going back >> Yeah. Well, then that you're going back to the mecentric mindset when you're to the mecentric mindset when you're to the mecentric mindset when you're doing that, right? You're saying, well, doing that, right? You're saying, well, doing that, right? You're saying, well, they didn't pick my idea. My goal was they didn't pick my idea. My goal was they didn't pick my idea. My goal was for my idea to get picked. It's like, for my idea to get picked. It's like, for my idea to get picked. It's like, no, your goal should be how can I no, your goal should be how can I no, your goal should be how can I contribute to this conversation? I gave contribute to this conversation? I gave contribute to this conversation? I gave my idea, they heard it, and now I'm my idea, they heard it, and now I'm my idea, they heard it, and now I'm going to give value by getting on board going to give value by getting on board going to give value by getting on board and helping this team win with the path and helping this team win with the path and helping this team win with the path we've chosen, we've chosen, we've chosen, >> right? And maybe I had a professor in >> right? And maybe I had a professor in >> right? And maybe I had a professor in grad school, and I'm going to totally grad school, and I'm going to totally grad school, and I'm going to totally get this phrase wrong, but he was saying get this phrase wrong, but he was saying get this phrase wrong, but he was saying like it was it I'm sure he took this like it was it I'm sure he took this like it was it I'm sure he took this from another another quote, but like it from another another quote, but like it from another another quote, but like it was better to if you have two mountains was better to if you have two mountains was better to if you have two mountains in front of you and you're not sure in front of you and you're not sure in front of you and you're not sure which one to climb, don't just sit there which one to climb, don't just sit there which one to climb, don't just sit there being is it that one, is it left, is it being is it that one, is it left, is it being is it that one, is it left, is it right? I don't know. Just start climbing right? I don't know. Just start climbing right? I don't know. Just start climbing that mountain because the sooner you that mountain because the sooner you that mountain because the sooner you find out it's wrong, you can get back find out it's wrong, you can get back find out it's wrong, you can get back down and go the other one, right? So get down and go the other one, right? So get down and go the other one, right? So get on that team, climb that mountain. If on that team, climb that mountain. If on that team, climb that mountain. If that wasn't the right one, great. you that wasn't the right one, great. you that wasn't the right one, great. you all help everyone get down and you go to all help everyone get down and you go to all help everyone get down and you go to the next one. And so you don't want to the next one. And so you don't want to the next one. And so you don't want to be the person who's like, "Well, my idea be the person who's like, "Well, my idea be the person who's like, "Well, my idea was X and they didn't choose my idea. So was X and they didn't choose my idea. So was X and they didn't choose my idea. So now, you know, I'm not going to get now, you know, I'm not going to get now, you know, I'm not going to get promoted and they're not going to see my promoted and they're not going to see my promoted and they're not going to see my value." No, like you were part of that value." No, like you were part of that value." No, like you were part of that conversation and now you're showing I conversation and now you're showing I conversation and now you're showing I can be a team player and I can help us can be a team player and I can help us can be a team player and I can help us get to to the goal that we're trying to get to to the goal that we're trying to get to to the goal that we're trying to achieve. achieve. achieve. >> Mhm. I think though that people people >> Mhm. I think though that people people >> Mhm. I think though that people people are worried that their ideas will be are worried that their ideas will be are worried that their ideas will be stolen. like this might be a bit of a stolen. like this might be a bit of a stolen. like this might be a bit of a left turn. But I'm when I talk to early left turn. But I'm when I talk to early left turn. But I'm when I talk to early career people, maybe underrepresented career people, maybe underrepresented career people, maybe underrepresented people, they feel like, well, someone people, they feel like, well, someone people, they feel like, well, someone took my idea and they put their name on took my idea and they put their name on took my idea and they put their name on it and if I try to not be mecentric, if it and if I try to not be mecentric, if it and if I try to not be mecentric, if I don't look out for number one, watch I don't look out for number one, watch I don't look out for number one, watch out for me, then it's going to make it out for me, then it's going to make it out for me, then it's going to make it easier for people to step on me. These easier for people to step on me. These easier for people to step on me. These strategies you're describing are strategies you're describing are strategies you're describing are idealized strategies that maybe work in idealized strategies that maybe work in idealized strategies that maybe work in an idealized environment, but maybe work an idealized environment, but maybe work an idealized environment, but maybe work isn't as friendly and as low

isn't as friendly and as low isn't as friendly and as low competition. How do how would I apply a competition. How do how would I apply a competition. How do how would I apply a non-mecententric perspective in a non-mecententric perspective in a non-mecententric perspective in a situation that might not be as um situation that might not be as um situation that might not be as um friendly? friendly? friendly? >> I would say it's relationships and >> I would say it's relationships and >> I would say it's relationships and documentation. documentation. documentation. >> Documentation. >> Documentation. >> Documentation. >> But so, you know, first starting with >> But so, you know, first starting with >> But so, you know, first starting with relationships, right? It's relationships, right? It's relationships, right? It's >> you you win people over one by one, >> you you win people over one by one, >> you you win people over one by one, right? It's you're not going to send an right? It's you're not going to send an right? It's you're not going to send an email to the whole company and email to the whole company and email to the whole company and everyone's like, "Oh my gosh, like everyone's like, "Oh my gosh, like everyone's like, "Oh my gosh, like genius." You know, genius." You know, genius." You know, >> so smart. >> so smart. >> so smart. >> So smart. It's promote that person >> So smart. It's promote that person >> So smart. It's promote that person whoever wherever they are. It's you you whoever wherever they are. It's you you whoever wherever they are. It's you you win them over one by one. So you you win them over one by one. So you you win them over one by one. So you you keep showing up, you kind of win over keep showing up, you kind of win over keep showing up, you kind of win over your boss. You keep showing up, your your boss. You keep showing up, your your boss. You keep showing up, your teammates. And now those people kind of teammates. And now those people kind of teammates. And now those people kind of become your your supporters, your become your your supporters, your become your your supporters, your allies, and they'll be in rooms that allies, and they'll be in rooms that allies, and they'll be in rooms that you're not, and they can say, "I you're not, and they can say, "I you're not, and they can say, "I actually heard that idea from Scott. I actually heard that idea from Scott. I actually heard that idea from Scott. I heard that idea from Morgan." You know, heard that idea from Morgan." You know, heard that idea from Morgan." You know, or they they can help to kind of spread or they they can help to kind of spread or they they can help to kind of spread your word. But you you build those your word. But you you build those your word. But you you build those relationships one by one. You build that relationships one by one. You build that relationships one by one. You build that rapport. You keep showing up. And then rapport. You keep showing up. And then rapport. You keep showing up. And then documentation. So if you have an idea or documentation. So if you have an idea or documentation. So if you have an idea or proposal, put it in a doc, put in a proposal, put it in a doc, put in a proposal, put it in a doc, put in a document, right? Put it in an email. And document, right? Put it in an email. And document, right? Put it in an email. And it might be that someone else takes it might be that someone else takes it might be that someone else takes credit for it and runs with it. But when credit for it and runs with it. But when credit for it and runs with it. But when you're having those meetings with your you're having those meetings with your you're having those meetings with your boss, when you're talking about boss, when you're talking about boss, when you're talking about promotion, you can pull it up and say, promotion, you can pull it up and say, promotion, you can pull it up and say, "Hey, remember here are all the things "Hey, remember here are all the things "Hey, remember here are all the things that we talked about. Here were the that we talked about. Here were the that we talked about. Here were the ideas that I proposed and look, this ideas that I proposed and look, this ideas that I proposed and look, this idea got implemented 6 months later. You idea got implemented 6 months later. You idea got implemented 6 months later. You know, maybe someone else kind of ran know, maybe someone else kind of ran know, maybe someone else kind of ran with it, but here I have it all written with it, but here I have it all written with it, but here I have it all written down and we and we've talked about it."

down and we and we've talked about it." down and we and we've talked about it." And so I think it's that the building And so I think it's that the building And so I think it's that the building relationship because that will ripple relationship because that will ripple relationship because that will ripple effect in the other rooms that you're effect in the other rooms that you're effect in the other rooms that you're not in. And as you get farther along in not in. And as you get farther along in not in. And as you get farther along in your career, you'll build relationships your career, you'll build relationships your career, you'll build relationships with more senior people one-on-one. Uh, with more senior people one-on-one. Uh, with more senior people one-on-one. Uh, and then the documentation you for just and then the documentation you for just and then the documentation you for just for anything for anything you're for anything for anything you're for anything for anything you're proposing, for ideas you have. If you proposing, for ideas you have. If you proposing, for ideas you have. If you have that written down, it's something have that written down, it's something have that written down, it's something you can always point back to. you can always point back to. you can always point back to. >> People I wish if I wish I had known 30 >> People I wish if I wish I had known 30 >> People I wish if I wish I had known 30 years ago years ago years ago >> that the the compounding interest of >> that the the compounding interest of >> that the the compounding interest of relationships is huge. Like you know how relationships is huge. Like you know how relationships is huge. Like you know how they always tell you that if you start they always tell you that if you start they always tell you that if you start your retirement even with five or 10 your retirement even with five or 10 your retirement even with five or 10 bucks when you're age 20 bucks when you're age 20 bucks when you're age 20 >> versus someone who starts at 40 and >> versus someone who starts at 40 and >> versus someone who starts at 40 and tries to catch up tries to catch up tries to catch up >> you will you the person will never catch >> you will you the person will never catch >> you will you the person will never catch up cuz compounding interest and like we up cuz compounding interest and like we up cuz compounding interest and like we never we all like okay yeah sure but now never we all like okay yeah sure but now never we all like okay yeah sure but now that I'm looking back on my career I'm that I'm looking back on my career I'm that I'm looking back on my career I'm like oh my goodness like there were like oh my goodness like there were like oh my goodness like there were times I was such a jerk at 20 I could times I was such a jerk at 20 I could times I was such a jerk at 20 I could have saved time by being more valueled have saved time by being more valueled have saved time by being more valueled and less mecentric. and less mecentric. and less mecentric. >> Yeah. And these these relationships, >> Yeah. And these these relationships, >> Yeah. And these these relationships, what what people think are the what what people think are the what what people think are the quoteunquote old boys network for a lot quoteunquote old boys network for a lot quoteunquote old boys network for a lot of people is really just being reliable, of people is really just being reliable, of people is really just being reliable, providing value for years, and then you providing value for years, and then you providing value for years, and then you become known as a good team member.

become known as a good team member. become known as a good team member. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> that's a really hard thing for a >> that's a really hard thing for a >> that's a really hard thing for a 20-year-old to be told. 20-year-old to be told. 20-year-old to be told. >> Totally. Totally the same experience >> Totally. Totally the same experience >> Totally. Totally the same experience where I look back, I'm like, "Wow, like where I look back, I'm like, "Wow, like where I look back, I'm like, "Wow, like all those threads I never knew were all those threads I never knew were all those threads I never knew were connecting." And so, I mean, one connecting." And so, I mean, one connecting." And so, I mean, one example, uh, I was at Google for almost example, uh, I was at Google for almost example, uh, I was at Google for almost 10 years before I changed jobs. And in 10 years before I changed jobs. And in 10 years before I changed jobs. And in my first year, uh, I had started talking my first year, uh, I had started talking my first year, uh, I had started talking to someone who's on a different team and to someone who's on a different team and to someone who's on a different team and they were trying to do some sort of they were trying to do some sort of they were trying to do some sort of analysis, but they didn't have someone analysis, but they didn't have someone analysis, but they didn't have someone with that skill set or the bandwidth to with that skill set or the bandwidth to with that skill set or the bandwidth to do the analysis. And so I said, you do the analysis. And so I said, you do the analysis. And so I said, you know, I'll I'll I'll do it. I'll kind of know, I'll I'll I'll do it. I'll kind of know, I'll I'll I'll do it. I'll kind of fit it into my current workload. This is fit it into my current workload. This is fit it into my current workload. This is totally unrelated to my current tasks. I totally unrelated to my current tasks. I totally unrelated to my current tasks. I for sure will not get promoted based off for sure will not get promoted based off for sure will not get promoted based off of this, but I have this skill set. Uh, of this, but I have this skill set. Uh, of this, but I have this skill set. Uh, I think it's an interesting problem. Let I think it's an interesting problem. Let I think it's an interesting problem. Let me align my unique skills to the goal me align my unique skills to the goal me align my unique skills to the goal you have. And so I spent a few weeks you have. And so I spent a few weeks you have. And so I spent a few weeks helping them with that project. helping them with that project. helping them with that project. And that was like, you know, thank you. And that was like, you know, thank you. And that was like, you know, thank you. Great experience. Moving on. You could Great experience. Moving on. You could Great experience. Moving on. You could have looked at that and said, well, that have looked at that and said, well, that have looked at that and said, well, that had no benefit to me. I had to work had no benefit to me. I had to work had no benefit to me. I had to work longer and harder on something that longer and harder on something that longer and harder on something that wasn't even for my team. 6 months later, wasn't even for my team. 6 months later, wasn't even for my team. 6 months later, they have an opening on their team and they have an opening on their team and they have an opening on their team and they want some of that same skill set. they want some of that same skill set. they want some of that same skill set. And so, they came back to me and said, And so, they came back to me and said, And so, they came back to me and said, "Hey, we're hiring on our team now.

"Hey, we're hiring on our team now. "Hey, we're hiring on our team now. Would you be interested?" I said, "Yes, Would you be interested?" I said, "Yes, Would you be interested?" I said, "Yes, I'd be interested." Right? And I I'd be interested." Right? And I I'd be interested." Right? And I transferred over to that team. And so, transferred over to that team. And so, transferred over to that team. And so, it's that that compound interest. You it's that that compound interest. You it's that that compound interest. You built the relationship. You gave value. built the relationship. You gave value. built the relationship. You gave value. And maybe there wasn't a clear I will do And maybe there wasn't a clear I will do And maybe there wasn't a clear I will do this until I'll get this in return at this until I'll get this in return at this until I'll get this in return at the moment, but like you said, it the moment, but like you said, it the moment, but like you said, it compounds and you build those compounds and you build those compounds and you build those relationships and you'll start to see relationships and you'll start to see relationships and you'll start to see those things come back to you tfold down those things come back to you tfold down those things come back to you tfold down the road. I mean, I would in a heartbeat the road. I mean, I would in a heartbeat the road. I mean, I would in a heartbeat do an analysis for two weeks to get a do an analysis for two weeks to get a do an analysis for two weeks to get a new job 6 months later, right? So, it's new job 6 months later, right? So, it's new job 6 months later, right? So, it's it's you you're doing things for I'm it's you you're doing things for I'm it's you you're doing things for I'm going to give value. I'm going to use my going to give value. I'm going to use my going to give value. I'm going to use my unique skills to meet this moment to unique skills to meet this moment to unique skills to meet this moment to help someone with a goal that they need help someone with a goal that they need help someone with a goal that they need to achieve knowing that you're building to achieve knowing that you're building to achieve knowing that you're building those inroads. You're building those those inroads. You're building those those inroads. You're building those relationships and it's going to come relationships and it's going to come relationships and it's going to come back to you. Mhm. Right now, people are back to you. Mhm. Right now, people are back to you. Mhm. Right now, people are focused on keeping their jobs, on focused on keeping their jobs, on focused on keeping their jobs, on expanding their careers, and I think expanding their careers, and I think expanding their careers, and I think we're seeing people ask themselves like, we're seeing people ask themselves like, we're seeing people ask themselves like, "Do I care about the work? Do I have "Do I care about the work? Do I have "Do I care about the work? Do I have passion about the work? Or do I care passion about the work? Or do I care passion about the work? Or do I care about my co-workers?" Like, what is it about my co-workers?" Like, what is it about my co-workers?" Like, what is it that keeps people going to work? Like, I that keeps people going to work? Like, I that keeps people going to work? Like, I think you called it work passion in your think you called it work passion in your think you called it work passion in your PhD thesis. Like, where does that PhD thesis. Like, where does that PhD thesis. Like, where does that >> You've done your research on my >> You've done your research on my >> You've done your research on my research.

research. research. >> I try to do my research. Otherwise, I'm >> I try to do my research. Otherwise, I'm >> I try to do my research. Otherwise, I'm just a guy with a microphone. So that just a guy with a microphone. So that just a guy with a microphone. So that that that helps fuel uh helps work that that helps fuel uh helps work that that helps fuel uh helps work against the uh the imposttor syndrome, against the uh the imposttor syndrome, against the uh the imposttor syndrome, right? So this idea of passion at work right? So this idea of passion at work right? So this idea of passion at work like I I particularly amongst engineers like I I particularly amongst engineers like I I particularly amongst engineers I think is a real challenge and you must I think is a real challenge and you must I think is a real challenge and you must have seen that at Google. have seen that at Google. have seen that at Google. >> Mhm. It's gosh when I when I did my >> Mhm. It's gosh when I when I did my >> Mhm. It's gosh when I when I did my dissertation I was you know pretty dissertation I was you know pretty dissertation I was you know pretty naive. I had never actually gone to the naive. I had never actually gone to the naive. I had never actually gone to the work world. I was doing a PhD work world. I was doing a PhD work world. I was doing a PhD researching work when I had never researching work when I had never researching work when I had never actually worked. So I thought I was an actually worked. So I thought I was an actually worked. So I thought I was an expert on it. Uh, and I I love this idea expert on it. Uh, and I I love this idea expert on it. Uh, and I I love this idea of of work passion and what keeps you of of work passion and what keeps you of of work passion and what keeps you passionate about your work and does it passionate about your work and does it passionate about your work and does it change whether you you burn out or you change whether you you burn out or you change whether you you burn out or you you know you love it because I've seen you know you love it because I've seen you know you love it because I've seen it go both ways. You know, I've seen it go both ways. You know, I've seen it go both ways. You know, I've seen people who are so passionate they work people who are so passionate they work people who are so passionate they work way too long hours and now they're burnt way too long hours and now they're burnt way too long hours and now they're burnt out in the thing they care about. Um, out in the thing they care about. Um, out in the thing they care about. Um, and I'll say that the one thing I and I'll say that the one thing I and I'll say that the one thing I remember most strongly from my remember most strongly from my remember most strongly from my dissertation was that work passion dissertation was that work passion dissertation was that work passion mirrors romantic passion where when you mirrors romantic passion where when you mirrors romantic passion where when you start a job or you start a new uh like start a job or you start a new uh like start a job or you start a new uh like hobby or task or project, you are all hobby or task or project, you are all hobby or task or project, you are all about it. It is the best thing that's about it. It is the best thing that's about it. It is the best thing that's ever happened. And for 6 months, whether ever happened. And for 6 months, whether ever happened. And for 6 months, whether it's six months of your relationship, it's six months of your relationship, it's six months of your relationship, six months of your job, you are in the six months of your job, you are in the six months of your job, you are in the honeymoon period. And it is so great.

honeymoon period. And it is so great. honeymoon period. And it is so great. And you could just ride that honeymoon And you could just ride that honeymoon And you could just ride that honeymoon period no matter what happens in your period no matter what happens in your period no matter what happens in your job. in the relationship, you will job. in the relationship, you will job. in the relationship, you will overlook the negative aspects and then overlook the negative aspects and then overlook the negative aspects and then you hit that sixmon hump and you're you hit that sixmon hump and you're you hit that sixmon hump and you're like, hm, that initial kind of like, hm, that initial kind of like, hm, that initial kind of adrenaline, that initial like appeal of adrenaline, that initial like appeal of adrenaline, that initial like appeal of it has kind of died down and now I can it has kind of died down and now I can it has kind of died down and now I can see it for what it is and there's the see it for what it is and there's the see it for what it is and there's the pros and the cons and then it kind of pros and the cons and then it kind of pros and the cons and then it kind of comes down. So, that's always stuck with comes down. So, that's always stuck with comes down. So, that's always stuck with me. I always tell people if you're me. I always tell people if you're me. I always tell people if you're dating and you're thinking about getting dating and you're thinking about getting dating and you're thinking about getting married, has it been at least 6 to 18 married, has it been at least 6 to 18 married, has it been at least 6 to 18 months? Because that is the honeymoon months? Because that is the honeymoon months? Because that is the honeymoon period until you can make a good make a period until you can make a good make a period until you can make a good make a good call. But, I think it it really is good call. But, I think it it really is good call. But, I think it it really is the idea of passion. It's going to the idea of passion. It's going to the idea of passion. It's going to differ for everyone. And I don't think differ for everyone. And I don't think differ for everyone. And I don't think you have to be passionate about, you you have to be passionate about, you you have to be passionate about, you know, the hour by hour of what you're know, the hour by hour of what you're know, the hour by hour of what you're doing. I think you can be passionate doing. I think you can be passionate doing. I think you can be passionate about does this help me meet the goals about does this help me meet the goals about does this help me meet the goals that are important to me. So before I that are important to me. So before I that are important to me. So before I was a parent, I wanted to fully love my was a parent, I wanted to fully love my was a parent, I wanted to fully love my job and the work I was doing day in and job and the work I was doing day in and job and the work I was doing day in and day out in the projects. Since becoming day out in the projects. Since becoming day out in the projects. Since becoming a parent, I want a job that is a parent, I want a job that is a parent, I want a job that is fulfilling. I can, you know, have unique fulfilling. I can, you know, have unique fulfilling. I can, you know, have unique contribution, but I want a job that's contribution, but I want a job that's contribution, but I want a job that's going to say, "Yes, it's okay to leave going to say, "Yes, it's okay to leave going to say, "Yes, it's okay to leave at 4:00 and go pick up your kids, at 4:00 and go pick up your kids, at 4:00 and go pick up your kids, right?" And so it could be a job that's right?" And so it could be a job that's right?" And so it could be a job that's the most amazing thing in the world. I'm the most amazing thing in the world. I'm the most amazing thing in the world. I'm so passionate about it, but if it's so passionate about it, but if it's so passionate about it, but if it's going to take away from things that I going to take away from things that I going to take away from things that I value instead, I'm not going to do it.

value instead, I'm not going to do it. value instead, I'm not going to do it. And I think after co and you know, And I think after co and you know, And I think after co and you know, people experience that like they're just people experience that like they're just people experience that like they're just their priorities changed. And we're their priorities changed. And we're their priorities changed. And we're seeing that with RTO and it could be the seeing that with RTO and it could be the seeing that with RTO and it could be the best job in the world, but if it doesn't best job in the world, but if it doesn't best job in the world, but if it doesn't support your bigger goals and your support your bigger goals and your support your bigger goals and your bigger priorities, doesn't matter how bigger priorities, doesn't matter how bigger priorities, doesn't matter how passionate someone is about it, they're passionate someone is about it, they're passionate someone is about it, they're going to probably step away from it. And going to probably step away from it. And going to probably step away from it. And some people the passion is going to be some people the passion is going to be some people the passion is going to be the job. Some people the passion is the job. Some people the passion is the job. Some people the passion is going to be their family. Some people going to be their family. Some people going to be their family. Some people it's going to be the people they work it's going to be the people they work it's going to be the people they work with. And so just knowing what is it for with. And so just knowing what is it for with. And so just knowing what is it for you and then how do you build an you and then how do you build an you and then how do you build an environment around that that supports environment around that that supports environment around that that supports that? that? that? >> That really resonates with me. People >> That really resonates with me. People >> That really resonates with me. People ask me since I've been working so long ask me since I've been working so long ask me since I've been working so long like you know you seem to have so much like you know you seem to have so much like you know you seem to have so much energy and you're always upbeat and it's energy and you're always upbeat and it's energy and you're always upbeat and it's just like it's because it's never been just like it's because it's never been just like it's because it's never been about the job itself. It's been about about the job itself. It's been about about the job itself. It's been about the thing under the job which I guess is the thing under the job which I guess is the thing under the job which I guess is value. I didn't think about it as value. value. I didn't think about it as value. value. I didn't think about it as value. For me it's been teaching. It's been For me it's been teaching. It's been For me it's been teaching. It's been empowering and like getting people empowering and like getting people empowering and like getting people excited about a thing so that they might excited about a thing so that they might excited about a thing so that they might go off and do something. So like you go off and do something. So like you go off and do something. So like you mentioned connecting people earlier in mentioned connecting people earlier in mentioned connecting people earlier in the podcast. Like I love connecting the podcast. Like I love connecting the podcast. Like I love connecting people like oh Morgan you should meet people like oh Morgan you should meet people like oh Morgan you should meet so- and so like I don't have an so- and so like I don't have an so- and so like I don't have an underlying thing here. I'm not keeping underlying thing here. I'm not keeping underlying thing here. I'm not keeping score. I will probably forget that I score. I will probably forget that I score. I will probably forget that I introduced you to so- and so, but like introduced you to so- and so, but like introduced you to so- and so, but like out of every 10 introductions, maybe one out of every 10 introductions, maybe one out of every 10 introductions, maybe one of them will be like, "Oh, and then we of them will be like, "Oh, and then we of them will be like, "Oh, and then we worked together on a thing and it was worked together on a thing and it was worked together on a thing and it was great." And through the transitive great." And through the transitive great." And through the transitive property of friendship, A to B to C, now property of friendship, A to B to C, now property of friendship, A to B to C, now Morgan's friends with my friend and Morgan's friends with my friend and Morgan's friends with my friend and they're they run they run off and do they're they run they run off and do they're they run they run off and do great business together. That has great business together. That has great business together. That has nothing to do with working at Google or nothing to do with working at Google or nothing to do with working at Google or Microsoft or Snowflake. That's just like Microsoft or Snowflake. That's just like Microsoft or Snowflake. That's just like >> that's passion like connecting people or >> that's passion like connecting people or >> that's passion like connecting people or plugging people in. Um I never realized

plugging people in. Um I never realized plugging people in. Um I never realized though that that was trying to lead with though that that was trying to lead with though that that was trying to lead with adding value rather than being adding value rather than being adding value rather than being mecentric. mecentric. mecentric. >> Yeah. Cuz I mean you're not doing that >> Yeah. Cuz I mean you're not doing that >> Yeah. Cuz I mean you're not doing that thinking well if they become friends thinking well if they become friends thinking well if they become friends then maybe they'll you know invent this then maybe they'll you know invent this then maybe they'll you know invent this business and they'll cut up the money. business and they'll cut up the money. business and they'll cut up the money. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. >> That would be very conniving and like >> That would be very conniving and like >> That would be very conniving and like strategic if you were able to do that. strategic if you were able to do that. strategic if you were able to do that. But But But >> I am wondering where my money is. Where >> I am wondering where my money is. Where >> I am wondering where my money is. Where is my where's my check? is my where's my check? is my where's my check? >> And I think that goes the question of >> And I think that goes the question of >> And I think that goes the question of like well what is value? Because it it like well what is value? Because it it like well what is value? Because it it can sound great to say you know lead can sound great to say you know lead can sound great to say you know lead with value. It's great. think what what with value. It's great. think what what with value. It's great. think what what does that mean? How do I how do I lead does that mean? How do I how do I lead does that mean? How do I how do I lead with value? And I and I think of value with value? And I and I think of value with value? And I and I think of value as, you know, three different broad as, you know, three different broad as, you know, three different broad categories. And one, it can be categories. And one, it can be categories. And one, it can be informational. It can be things like the informational. It can be things like the informational. It can be things like the the knowledge you have, the the data you the knowledge you have, the the data you the knowledge you have, the the data you provide, the insights, the the tools you provide, the insights, the the tools you provide, the insights, the the tools you know about, the resources you share. I know about, the resources you share. I know about, the resources you share. I think people think about this most often think people think about this most often think people think about this most often when they think about value, right? It's when they think about value, right? It's when they think about value, right? It's like how can I use my knowledge and like how can I use my knowledge and like how can I use my knowledge and information? And that is one way uh that information? And that is one way uh that information? And that is one way uh that can be harder when you don't feel like can be harder when you don't feel like can be harder when you don't feel like an expert in something or maybe you're an expert in something or maybe you're an expert in something or maybe you're approaching someone who you know is 10 approaching someone who you know is 10 approaching someone who you know is 10 years farther along in the field for you years farther along in the field for you years farther along in the field for you and you're like I'm not going to go and and you're like I'm not going to go and and you're like I'm not going to go and be like have you considered like of be like have you considered like of be like have you considered like of course I invented that you know but a course I invented that you know but a course I invented that you know but a second way would be uh emotional and so second way would be uh emotional and so second way would be uh emotional and so value can be just giving someone value can be just giving someone value can be just giving someone encouragement. It can be giving them encouragement. It can be giving them encouragement. It can be giving them feedback. It can be advocating for them.

feedback. It can be advocating for them. feedback. It can be advocating for them. And so I I think of, you know, there's I And so I I think of, you know, there's I And so I I think of, you know, there's I have a I have of a friend on LinkedIn have a I have of a friend on LinkedIn have a I have of a friend on LinkedIn and we always joke that I I try to post and we always joke that I I try to post and we always joke that I I try to post things that are very educational, things that are very educational, things that are very educational, informational, and he just posts a bunch informational, and he just posts a bunch informational, and he just posts a bunch of things that make him laugh and of things that make him laugh and of things that make him laugh and everyone else is laughing along and he's everyone else is laughing along and he's everyone else is laughing along and he's just grown this huge community and it's just grown this huge community and it's just grown this huge community and it's like that's value because that's that's like that's value because that's that's like that's value because that's that's an emotional component of value is an emotional component of value is an emotional component of value is you're you're bringing levity and people you're you're bringing levity and people you're you're bringing levity and people are on LinkedIn, they're stressed, are on LinkedIn, they're stressed, are on LinkedIn, they're stressed, they're looking for jobs and you made they're looking for jobs and you made they're looking for jobs and you made them laugh because you made a joke about them laugh because you made a joke about them laugh because you made a joke about a dashboard, right? And so that too is a dashboard, right? And so that too is a dashboard, right? And so that too is value. Just cuz how can you make value. Just cuz how can you make value. Just cuz how can you make someone's day a little brighter? And someone's day a little brighter? And someone's day a little brighter? And then the third way I think of value is then the third way I think of value is then the third way I think of value is strategic. And that's where that that strategic. And that's where that that strategic. And that's where that that thought partnership comes in, right? How thought partnership comes in, right? How thought partnership comes in, right? How can you offer perspective? How can you can you offer perspective? How can you can you offer perspective? How can you surface risks that people might not be surface risks that people might not be surface risks that people might not be aware of? How can you help them ask the aware of? How can you help them ask the aware of? How can you help them ask the better questions? And I think that's the better questions? And I think that's the better questions? And I think that's the one that maybe more you become more of one that maybe more you become more of one that maybe more you become more of an expert in your field. You start to an expert in your field. You start to an expert in your field. You start to add more of the strategic value. But add more of the strategic value. But add more of the strategic value. But anybody can offer the informational and anybody can offer the informational and anybody can offer the informational and the emotional. So the informational goes the emotional. So the informational goes the emotional. So the informational goes back to the example of of the the guy back to the example of of the the guy back to the example of of the the guy who sends me resources on LinkedIn, who sends me resources on LinkedIn, who sends me resources on LinkedIn, right? That's information. Here's a tool right? That's information. Here's a tool right? That's information. Here's a tool I think you would help. Thank you. I think you would help. Thank you. I think you would help. Thank you. Right? Then he also adds the feedback.

Right? Then he also adds the feedback. Right? Then he also adds the feedback. That's the emotional aspect. So you That's the emotional aspect. So you That's the emotional aspect. So you don't have to be an expert. You don't don't have to be an expert. You don't don't have to be an expert. You don't have to be smarter than the person have to be smarter than the person have to be smarter than the person you're trying to add value to. But just you're trying to add value to. But just you're trying to add value to. But just think about those three components of is think about those three components of is think about those three components of is there is there information I can share? there is there information I can share? there is there information I can share? Are there a tool, an article they'd find Are there a tool, an article they'd find Are there a tool, an article they'd find interesting? Is there uh emotional, interesting? Is there uh emotional, interesting? Is there uh emotional, whether that is encouragement, advocacy, whether that is encouragement, advocacy, whether that is encouragement, advocacy, humor if that's your, you know, your humor if that's your, you know, your humor if that's your, you know, your specialty, or just strategic? Do I feel specialty, or just strategic? Do I feel specialty, or just strategic? Do I feel like I can help someone rethink how like I can help someone rethink how like I can help someone rethink how they're approaching this problem? And they're approaching this problem? And they're approaching this problem? And all three of those are really solid ways all three of those are really solid ways all three of those are really solid ways of giving value. of giving value. of giving value. >> Yeah. And I think that's a really good >> Yeah. And I think that's a really good >> Yeah. And I think that's a really good reminder for for people who are early in reminder for for people who are early in reminder for for people who are early in career. If you're listening to this show career. If you're listening to this show career. If you're listening to this show and you're thinking about like, well, I and you're thinking about like, well, I and you're thinking about like, well, I don't have the information. I don't have don't have the information. I don't have don't have the information. I don't have the context for strategic, but I would the context for strategic, but I would the context for strategic, but I would rather work with a pleasant, thoughtful rather work with a pleasant, thoughtful rather work with a pleasant, thoughtful person who will give encouragement and person who will give encouragement and person who will give encouragement and advocacy and clear feedback. someone who advocacy and clear feedback. someone who advocacy and clear feedback. someone who has an emotional brain, even if they has an emotional brain, even if they has an emotional brain, even if they don't yet at this point in their career, don't yet at this point in their career, don't yet at this point in their career, have all the data and all the insights have all the data and all the insights have all the data and all the insights that that I might necessarily need. Like that that I might necessarily need. Like that that I might necessarily need. Like a person on the group project who is a person on the group project who is a person on the group project who is positive is certainly better than a positive is certainly better than a positive is certainly better than a genius who's a jerk. genius who's a jerk. genius who's a jerk. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> And we don't think about those kind of >> And we don't think about those kind of >> And we don't think about those kind of things. Like I need to my husband, I was things. Like I need to my husband, I was things. Like I need to my husband, I was like, I'm a personality hireer. He's like, I'm a personality hireer. He's like, I'm a personality hireer. He's like, no, you're not. You have the like, no, you're not. You have the like, no, you're not. You have the education. But I'm like, well, sometimes education. But I'm like, well, sometimes education. But I'm like, well, sometimes you just have to be that person who you just have to be that person who you just have to be that person who brings the levity especially to hard brings the levity especially to hard brings the levity especially to hard projects and it just changes people's projects and it just changes people's projects and it just changes people's perspective of work. And also you can do perspective of work. And also you can do perspective of work. And also you can do two things like when Twitter came out in two things like when Twitter came out in two things like when Twitter came out in 2006 or 2007 2006 or 2007 2006 or 2007 >> I feel like our entire brains became all >> I feel like our entire brains became all >> I feel like our entire brains became all thoughts became the size of a tweet and thoughts became the size of a tweet and thoughts became the size of a tweet and like if if a statistic doesn't fit in a like if if a statistic doesn't fit in a like if if a statistic doesn't fit in a tweet if a data visualization doesn't tweet if a data visualization doesn't tweet if a data visualization doesn't fit in a tweet then it's like not the fit in a tweet then it's like not the fit in a tweet then it's like not the American brain can't hold it

American brain can't hold it American brain can't hold it >> and I think that that's just wrong and >> and I think that that's just wrong and >> and I think that that's just wrong and suddenly with 24-hour news cycles and suddenly with 24-hour news cycles and suddenly with 24-hour news cycles and everything's a tweet we can't do two everything's a tweet we can't do two everything's a tweet we can't do two things at once. I think you can be things at once. I think you can be things at once. I think you can be valueled while quietly being me centric valueled while quietly being me centric valueled while quietly being me centric because in doing that you are trying to because in doing that you are trying to because in doing that you are trying to lead with value while improving your lead with value while improving your lead with value while improving your your career and your your status. You your career and your your status. You your career and your your status. You can do two things at once. can do two things at once. can do two things at once. >> Yeah, 100% agree. It's funny when you >> Yeah, 100% agree. It's funny when you >> Yeah, 100% agree. It's funny when you when you talk about like the the when you talk about like the the when you talk about like the the attention span of a tweet. I saw a funny attention span of a tweet. I saw a funny attention span of a tweet. I saw a funny post I mean months ago but it stuck with post I mean months ago but it stuck with post I mean months ago but it stuck with me where they said we don't have short me where they said we don't have short me where they said we don't have short attention spans. We have short boring attention spans. We have short boring attention spans. We have short boring spans. Like you will go sit through a spans. Like you will go sit through a spans. Like you will go sit through a three-hour movie no problem and that's three-hour movie no problem and that's three-hour movie no problem and that's not attention span. cuz it's keeping not attention span. cuz it's keeping not attention span. cuz it's keeping your attention, right? And so it's it's your attention, right? And so it's it's your attention, right? And so it's it's not about, you know, get do everything not about, you know, get do everything not about, you know, get do everything you can in 10 seconds or less. If you're you can in 10 seconds or less. If you're you can in 10 seconds or less. If you're giving someone value for an hour, they giving someone value for an hour, they giving someone value for an hour, they will sit and talk to you for an hour, will sit and talk to you for an hour, will sit and talk to you for an hour, you know, and so that's why it's the the you know, and so that's why it's the the you know, and so that's why it's the the boring span is this doesn't apply to me. boring span is this doesn't apply to me. boring span is this doesn't apply to me. This isn't relevant. This is just, you This isn't relevant. This is just, you This isn't relevant. This is just, you know, this is something else going on know, this is something else going on know, this is something else going on that's just noise to me. Well, how do that's just noise to me. Well, how do that's just noise to me. Well, how do you cut through that noise and how do you cut through that noise and how do you cut through that noise and how do you really think about what's important you really think about what's important you really think about what's important to this person? You'll have their to this person? You'll have their to this person? You'll have their attention whether that's for a minute, attention whether that's for a minute, attention whether that's for a minute, 10 minutes, an hour.

10 minutes, an hour. 10 minutes, an hour. >> That's deep. You just blew my mind. I >> That's deep. You just blew my mind. I >> That's deep. You just blew my mind. I was going to make a joke that I just got was going to make a joke that I just got was going to make a joke that I just got bored and I just kind of like went off bored and I just kind of like went off bored and I just kind of like went off in space. in space. in space. >> Oh, no. >> Oh, no. >> Oh, no. >> No, no, no. But this is great. Thank you >> No, no, no. But this is great. Thank you >> No, no, no. But this is great. Thank you so much for spending time with me today. so much for spending time with me today. so much for spending time with me today. >> Yeah, this has been fun. It flew by. You >> Yeah, this has been fun. It flew by. You >> Yeah, this has been fun. It flew by. You were right. were right. were right. >> It does fly by. Well, if you want to >> It does fly by. Well, if you want to >> It does fly by. Well, if you want to learn more from Dr. Morgan, you can learn more from Dr. Morgan, you can learn more from Dr. Morgan, you can check her out at morganddeepenbush.com. check her out at morganddeepenbush.com. check her out at morganddeepenbush.com. I'll put links in the show notes and you I'll put links in the show notes and you I'll put links in the show notes and you can go and get the weekly newsletter, can go and get the weekly newsletter, can go and get the weekly newsletter, turning insights into real impact. uh turning insights into real impact. uh turning insights into real impact. uh learn about how to do all of these learn about how to do all of these learn about how to do all of these strategies and be a better worker strategies and be a better worker strategies and be a better worker leading with value. leading with value. leading with value. This has been another episode of Hansel This has been another episode of Hansel This has been another episode of Hansel Minutes and we'll see you again next Minutes and we'll see you again next Minutes and we'll see you again next week.