Compile after Class Crossover Episode

Hey friends, you probably knew that text Hey friends, you probably knew that text control is a powerful library for control is a powerful library for control is a powerful library for document editing and PDF generation. But document editing and PDF generation. But document editing and PDF generation. But did you also know that they're a strong did you also know that they're a strong did you also know that they're a strong supporter of the developer community and supporter of the developer community and supporter of the developer community and it's part of their mission to build and it's part of their mission to build and it's part of their mission to build and support a strong community by being support a strong community by being support a strong community by being present by listening to users and by present by listening to users and by present by listening to users and by sharing knowledge at conferences across sharing knowledge at conferences across sharing knowledge at conferences across Europe and the United States. If you're Europe and the United States. If you're Europe and the United States. If you're heading to a conference soon, maybe heading to a conference soon, maybe heading to a conference soon, maybe check if text control will be there. check if text control will be there. check if text control will be there. Stop by and say hi. You'll find their Stop by and say hi. You'll find their Stop by and say hi. You'll find their full conference calendar at full conference calendar at full conference calendar at textcontrol.com. textcontrol.com. textcontrol.com. That's textcontrol.com. Hey friends, it's Scott. This is an Hey friends, it's Scott. This is an interesting episode. I got an invite uh interesting episode. I got an invite uh interesting episode. I got an invite uh a while back to come on a podcast called a while back to come on a podcast called a while back to come on a podcast called Compile After Class. It's a podcast done Compile After Class. It's a podcast done Compile After Class. It's a podcast done by an incoming sophomore at a high by an incoming sophomore at a high by an incoming sophomore at a high school in California named Shri Monica school in California named Shri Monica school in California named Shri Monica Raja and he does it with his friend Cam Raja and he does it with his friend Cam Raja and he does it with his friend Cam and I went on their little podcast and and I went on their little podcast and and I went on their little podcast and it was super fun and we had a great time it was super fun and we had a great time it was super fun and we had a great time and then about halfway through the and then about halfway through the and then about halfway through the podcast I thought to myself podcast I thought to myself podcast I thought to myself we should do a crossover. So this we should do a crossover. So this we should do a crossover. So this episode is me on Shri and Cam's podcast episode is me on Shri and Cam's podcast episode is me on Shri and Cam's podcast cross-osted here. So check them out. Uh cross-osted here. So check them out. Uh cross-osted here. So check them out. Uh we'll put links in the show notes.

we'll put links in the show notes. we'll put links in the show notes. Enjoy. Enjoy. Enjoy. Prompt engineering is not a thing. Prompt engineering is not a thing. Prompt engineering is not a thing. Prompting is not programming, people. Prompting is not programming, people. Prompting is not programming, people. You guys don't even know how to crap You guys don't even know how to crap You guys don't even know how to crap without your phones. AI doesn't take without your phones. AI doesn't take without your phones. AI doesn't take your job. Unchecked capitalism takes your job. Unchecked capitalism takes your job. Unchecked capitalism takes your job. It's going to be mid. Half of your job. It's going to be mid. Half of your job. It's going to be mid. Half of the internet is trash. I'm like on the internet is trash. I'm like on the internet is trash. I'm like on version seven or eight of myself. version seven or eight of myself. version seven or eight of myself. >> Scott Hanselman has spent almost two >> Scott Hanselman has spent almost two >> Scott Hanselman has spent almost two decades explaining code to people who decades explaining code to people who decades explaining code to people who thought they never understand it. He's thought they never understand it. He's thought they never understand it. He's the VP at Microsoft and also an engineer the VP at Microsoft and also an engineer the VP at Microsoft and also an engineer at GitHub. He's also a partner program at GitHub. He's also a partner program at GitHub. He's also a partner program manager at Microsoft. He's recorded over manager at Microsoft. He's recorded over manager at Microsoft. He's recorded over 1,000 episodes of his own podcast, 1,000 episodes of his own podcast, 1,000 episodes of his own podcast, Handel Minutes, for the past 20 plus Handel Minutes, for the past 20 plus Handel Minutes, for the past 20 plus years. And somewhere along the way, he years. And somewhere along the way, he years. And somewhere along the way, he became one of the most trusted voices in became one of the most trusted voices in became one of the most trusted voices in software. Not simply because he's the software. Not simply because he's the software. Not simply because he's the smartest person in the room, but because smartest person in the room, but because smartest person in the room, but because he's the best at making the room he's the best at making the room he's the best at making the room smarter. And today, we're two students smarter. And today, we're two students smarter. And today, we're two students trying to figure out the same thing he trying to figure out the same thing he trying to figure out the same thing he spent his whole career figuring out. How spent his whole career figuring out. How spent his whole career figuring out. How do you actually build something that do you actually build something that do you actually build something that matters? matters? matters? So we asked him >> don't drop classes out the code on >> don't drop classes out the code on compile after class till the break of compile after class till the break of compile after class till the break of dawn.

>> All right, Scott, do you want to just >> All right, Scott, do you want to just start by introducing yourself to start by introducing yourself to start by introducing yourself to everyone? My name is Scott Hanselman and everyone? My name is Scott Hanselman and everyone? My name is Scott Hanselman and I work at Microsoft from my home office I work at Microsoft from my home office I work at Microsoft from my home office in Portland, Oregon. I kind of work half in Portland, Oregon. I kind of work half in Portland, Oregon. I kind of work half for Microsoft and half for GitHub. So for Microsoft and half for GitHub. So for Microsoft and half for GitHub. So I'm focused primarily on developers and I'm focused primarily on developers and I'm focused primarily on developers and making developers, particularly young making developers, particularly young making developers, particularly young developers, successful. developers, successful. developers, successful. What's something that you thought you What's something that you thought you What's something that you thought you were like really sure about when you were like really sure about when you were like really sure about when you were like younger and starting to get were like younger and starting to get were like younger and starting to get into tech and all that, but now you into tech and all that, but now you into tech and all that, but now you wanted to if you wish you can go back wanted to if you wish you can go back wanted to if you wish you can go back and tell yourself that you were wrong. and tell yourself that you were wrong. and tell yourself that you were wrong. I thought that you had to be the I thought that you had to be the I thought that you had to be the smartest person in the room and that you smartest person in the room and that you smartest person in the room and that you had to like totally grind it out and be had to like totally grind it out and be had to like totally grind it out and be the one that has the answers. And I the one that has the answers. And I the one that has the answers. And I realized that life and as a general realized that life and as a general realized that life and as a general rule, adulting is a big group project. rule, adulting is a big group project. rule, adulting is a big group project. And just like, you know, group projects, And just like, you know, group projects, And just like, you know, group projects, cuz y'all are high school students, just cuz y'all are high school students, just cuz y'all are high school students, just like with group projects, there's always like with group projects, there's always like with group projects, there's always like one rando who just shows up for the like one rando who just shows up for the like one rando who just shows up for the group and gets the grade, but they group and gets the grade, but they group and gets the grade, but they didn't do any work. and he's like, didn't do any work. and he's like, didn't do any work. and he's like, "Dude, that guy didn't do anything. He "Dude, that guy didn't do anything. He "Dude, that guy didn't do anything. He got this is screwed up." You know what I got this is screwed up." You know what I got this is screwed up." You know what I mean? That happens in life as well. But mean? That happens in life as well. But mean? That happens in life as well. But you have to be able to get along with you have to be able to get along with you have to be able to get along with human beings. So being pleasant and easy human beings. So being pleasant and easy human beings. So being pleasant and easy to get along with is way way way more to get along with is way way way more to get along with is way way way more useful of a skill than being the useful of a skill than being the useful of a skill than being the smartest person in the room.

smartest person in the room. smartest person in the room. >> Does that make sense? >> Does that make sense? >> Does that make sense? >> Yeah. Yeah. That was And did you always >> Yeah. Yeah. That was And did you always >> Yeah. Yeah. That was And did you always plan to take this route down into tech plan to take this route down into tech plan to take this route down into tech and stuff or did that moment click for and stuff or did that moment click for and stuff or did that moment click for you? you? you? >> Being the smartest person in the room is >> Being the smartest person in the room is >> Being the smartest person in the room is sometimes just you're born that way and sometimes just you're born that way and sometimes just you're born that way and sometimes it's you grinded it out and sometimes it's you grinded it out and sometimes it's you grinded it out and you did the work but you you have to you did the work but you you have to you did the work but you you have to work with the gifts that you are given work with the gifts that you are given work with the gifts that you are given >> and being the being given the gift to be >> and being the being given the gift to be >> and being the being given the gift to be the smartest person room is not was not the smartest person room is not was not the smartest person room is not was not the gift that I was given. So, I try to the gift that I was given. So, I try to the gift that I was given. So, I try to be the pleasant one who is moving us be the pleasant one who is moving us be the pleasant one who is moving us forward. And I I like to use this term forward. And I I like to use this term forward. And I I like to use this term yes. And if you've ever done like yes. And if you've ever done like yes. And if you've ever done like theater or improv, people want you to go theater or improv, people want you to go theater or improv, people want you to go yes. And like if you're in a group yes. And like if you're in a group yes. And like if you're in a group project and someone comes up with an project and someone comes up with an project and someone comes up with an idea, oh no, Sh, that's never going to idea, oh no, Sh, that's never going to idea, oh no, Sh, that's never going to work. That's stupid. Well, I don't want work. That's stupid. Well, I don't want work. That's stupid. Well, I don't want you in my group project. But instead, you in my group project. But instead, you in my group project. But instead, you go, yes, and oh yeah, and we can do you go, yes, and oh yeah, and we can do you go, yes, and oh yeah, and we can do that and we can build on this. That's that and we can build on this. That's that and we can build on this. That's the kind of positive interactions that the kind of positive interactions that the kind of positive interactions that you want. So, I try to provide that in a you want. So, I try to provide that in a you want. So, I try to provide that in a room rather than just trying to be the room rather than just trying to be the room rather than just trying to be the smartest because it's never going to smartest because it's never going to smartest because it's never going to work.

work. work. >> All right. Um, I had a question since >> All right. Um, I had a question since >> All right. Um, I had a question since we're talking about, you know, back we're talking about, you know, back we're talking about, you know, back before a lot of important stuff. Um, one before a lot of important stuff. Um, one before a lot of important stuff. Um, one thing that everybody goes to is school. thing that everybody goes to is school. thing that everybody goes to is school. So, how did school shape your journey So, how did school shape your journey So, how did school shape your journey into the tech world? into the tech world? into the tech world? School when you start it is primarily School when you start it is primarily School when you start it is primarily teaching you stuff teaching you stuff teaching you stuff and it's kind of like this daily lecture and it's kind of like this daily lecture and it's kind of like this daily lecture from a bunch of old people and then at from a bunch of old people and then at from a bunch of old people and then at some point probably where you guys are some point probably where you guys are some point probably where you guys are like 16 you start being like I get it like 16 you start being like I get it like 16 you start being like I get it dude h like I get it now and then school dude h like I get it now and then school dude h like I get it now and then school becomes less well you think you get it becomes less well you think you get it becomes less well you think you get it you don't you have no idea what you're you don't you have no idea what you're you don't you have no idea what you're doing you you get less about learning doing you you get less about learning doing you you get less about learning stuff and more about learning how to stuff and more about learning how to stuff and more about learning how to learn so what I would tell you as you learn so what I would tell you as you learn so what I would tell you as you people that are going to be juniors and people that are going to be juniors and people that are going to be juniors and seniors in high school is yeah absorb seniors in high school is yeah absorb seniors in high school is yeah absorb all the stuff they're teaching you but all the stuff they're teaching you but all the stuff they're teaching you but focus on can you learn stuff on your own focus on can you learn stuff on your own focus on can you learn stuff on your own and you know we see a lot of and you know we see a lot of and you know we see a lot of misinformation you're growing up in a misinformation you're growing up in a misinformation you're growing up in a time where politics and health and time where politics and health and time where politics and health and influencers uh any excuse my influencers uh any excuse my influencers uh any excuse my French for swearing on your podcast but French for swearing on your podcast but French for swearing on your podcast but any with a microphone can just any with a microphone can just any with a microphone can just say some stuff and it's like oh look say some stuff and it's like oh look say some stuff and it's like oh look look he's got a fancy room and a bunch look he's got a fancy room and a bunch look he's got a fancy room and a bunch of LEDs he's old he must be of LEDs he's old he must be of LEDs he's old he must be That is not authority. So you as people That is not authority. So you as people That is not authority. So you as people who are learning how to learn need to be who are learning how to learn need to be who are learning how to learn need to be able to say, "I don't believe that guy.

able to say, "I don't believe that guy. able to say, "I don't believe that guy. He doesn't know what he's a guy. This is He doesn't know what he's a guy. This is He doesn't know what he's a guy. This is a guy with a podcast mic." Right? A a guy with a podcast mic." Right? A a guy with a podcast mic." Right? A podcast mic does not make you the podcast mic does not make you the podcast mic does not make you the authority. So learning how to learn authority. So learning how to learn authority. So learning how to learn means you need to have a good BS means you need to have a good BS means you need to have a good BS detector detector detector where someone says something on a where someone says something on a where someone says something on a podcast whether it's about tech or about podcast whether it's about tech or about podcast whether it's about tech or about AI or about crypto or about you know AI or about crypto or about you know AI or about crypto or about you know politics and you go my critical thinking politics and you go my critical thinking politics and you go my critical thinking hat doesn't says this is nonsense hat doesn't says this is nonsense hat doesn't says this is nonsense don't go down the wrong side of the don't go down the wrong side of the don't go down the wrong side of the internet half of the internet is trash internet half of the internet is trash internet half of the internet is trash so you need to be learning in the next so you need to be learning in the next so you need to be learning in the next two years and in college how to teach two years and in college how to teach two years and in college how to teach yourself and actually do your research yourself and actually do your research yourself and actually do your research because going on Reddit is not doing because going on Reddit is not doing because going on Reddit is not doing your own research. your own research. your own research. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Oh, I did my own research. No, you >> Oh, I did my own research. No, you >> Oh, I did my own research. No, you didn't. That dude's Reddit post is not didn't. That dude's Reddit post is not didn't. That dude's Reddit post is not your research. your research. your research. >> You've obviously like you've had a ton >> You've obviously like you've had a ton >> You've obviously like you've had a ton of experience. You've gone through so of experience. You've gone through so of experience. You've gone through so much to like get to the point where much to like get to the point where much to like get to the point where you're at. How do you tell the you're at. How do you tell the you're at. How do you tell the difference between like because you've difference between like because you've difference between like because you've done a lot of fraud and a lot of done a lot of fraud and a lot of done a lot of fraud and a lot of different things. How do you tell the different things. How do you tell the different things. How do you tell the difference between I need to stop or I difference between I need to stop or I difference between I need to stop or I need to push through this to control need to push through this to control need to push through this to control your your your >> That's a really good question. I have >> That's a really good question. I have >> That's a really good question. I have two young sons. I have an an 18-year-old two young sons. I have an an 18-year-old two young sons. I have an an 18-year-old and a 20-year-old and getting them to and a 20-year-old and getting them to and a 20-year-old and getting them to listen to their bodies.

listen to their bodies. listen to their bodies. What is going on in my head right now? What is going on in my head right now? What is going on in my head right now? Why do I feel this way? Why am I angry? Why do I feel this way? Why am I angry? Why do I feel this way? Why am I angry? Why am I frustrated? Why did I snap at Why am I frustrated? Why did I snap at Why am I frustrated? Why did I snap at mom? Why do I feel like crap? Oh, I got mom? Why do I feel like crap? Oh, I got mom? Why do I feel like crap? Oh, I got up at 1:00 in the afternoon. I haven't up at 1:00 in the afternoon. I haven't up at 1:00 in the afternoon. I haven't had any water in 3 days. I ate at had any water in 3 days. I ate at had any water in 3 days. I ate at Chick-fil-A yesterday and I feel like Chick-fil-A yesterday and I feel like Chick-fil-A yesterday and I feel like crap. It's probably your fault, Dad. You crap. It's probably your fault, Dad. You crap. It's probably your fault, Dad. You know what I mean? That's how you do know what I mean? That's how you do know what I mean? That's how you do that. But if you can listen to your body that. But if you can listen to your body that. But if you can listen to your body and you go, "Man, I haven't drank any and you go, "Man, I haven't drank any and you go, "Man, I haven't drank any water in three days and I haven't had water in three days and I haven't had water in three days and I haven't had any good protein and I haven't seen the any good protein and I haven't seen the any good protein and I haven't seen the sun in a week." Listen to your body. sun in a week." Listen to your body. sun in a week." Listen to your body. That applies to if you're working on a That applies to if you're working on a That applies to if you're working on a problem. Literally yesterday I was problem. Literally yesterday I was problem. Literally yesterday I was working with Copilot. I was getting a working with Copilot. I was getting a working with Copilot. I was getting a bunch of weird layout issues in a bunch of weird layout issues in a bunch of weird layout issues in a Windows app. The scroll was jittery. I Windows app. The scroll was jittery. I Windows app. The scroll was jittery. I was scrolling with the mouse wheel and was scrolling with the mouse wheel and was scrolling with the mouse wheel and it was jittering and I was like, and I it was jittering and I was like, and I it was jittering and I was like, and I was grinding through it, but I was was grinding through it, but I was was grinding through it, but I was making it worse. And I listened to my making it worse. And I listened to my making it worse. And I listened to my body like I'm done for the day. body like I'm done for the day. body like I'm done for the day. I need to stop. I need to go for a walk. I need to stop. I need to go for a walk. I need to stop. I need to go for a walk. So, I would argue that, and I know I'm So, I would argue that, and I know I'm So, I would argue that, and I know I'm kind of being like right now, but like kind of being like right now, but like kind of being like right now, but like people need to listen to their bodies. people need to listen to their bodies. people need to listen to their bodies. And a lot of Gen Z and Gen Alpha are And a lot of Gen Z and Gen Alpha are And a lot of Gen Z and Gen Alpha are just not.

just not. just not. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You're just not listening to your body. >> You're just not listening to your body. >> You're just not listening to your body. Like, oh, it's a monster and I'll just Like, oh, it's a monster and I'll just Like, oh, it's a monster and I'll just grind through this. No, grind through this. No, grind through this. No, >> that's not a thing. You need to go to >> that's not a thing. You need to go to >> that's not a thing. You need to go to sleep. sleep. sleep. >> Self-awareness, we call it >> Self-awareness, we call it >> Self-awareness, we call it metacognition. Thinking is one thing, metacognition. Thinking is one thing, metacognition. Thinking is one thing, but thinking about your thinking is but thinking about your thinking is but thinking about your thinking is another thing. another thing. another thing. >> That's fair. Yeah, it's a great advice. >> That's fair. Yeah, it's a great advice. >> That's fair. Yeah, it's a great advice. You've done your podcast for so long. Is You've done your podcast for so long. Is You've done your podcast for so long. Is there like one question that guests there like one question that guests there like one question that guests still can't answer whenever you ask it? still can't answer whenever you ask it? still can't answer whenever you ask it? Something of that sort. Something of that sort. Something of that sort. >> I think that they talk too soon. You'll >> I think that they talk too soon. You'll >> I think that they talk too soon. You'll notice right then I just thought for notice right then I just thought for notice right then I just thought for >> a moment. >> a moment. >> a moment. >> You're allowed to think. >> You're allowed to think. >> You're allowed to think. >> All right. >> All right. >> All right. >> Don't just attach your brain to your >> Don't just attach your brain to your >> Don't just attach your brain to your mouth and start yapping. mouth and start yapping. mouth and start yapping. >> So, I'd like to see more guests say, "I >> So, I'd like to see more guests say, "I >> So, I'd like to see more guests say, "I don't know." Or, "I need to think about don't know." Or, "I need to think about don't know." Or, "I need to think about that for a second." or they need to that for a second." or they need to that for a second." or they need to pause and look up to the left, look up pause and look up to the left, look up pause and look up to the left, look up to the right, or whatever direction to the right, or whatever direction to the right, or whatever direction you're supposed to be looking when you're supposed to be looking when you're supposed to be looking when you're thinking hard you're thinking hard you're thinking hard as opposed to starting talking and then as opposed to starting talking and then as opposed to starting talking and then hoping you figure out the answer before hoping you figure out the answer before hoping you figure out the answer before the end of the sentence. the end of the sentence. the end of the sentence. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You know, I wish PT did that too.

>> Yeah. You know, I wish PT did that too. >> Yeah. You know, I wish PT did that too. >> I've gone through that too many times. >> I've gone through that too many times. >> I've gone through that too many times. >> Since we're on the topic of podcast, I >> Since we're on the topic of podcast, I >> Since we're on the topic of podcast, I also wanted to say something that no one also wanted to say something that no one also wanted to say something that no one warns you about for starting your own warns you about for starting your own warns you about for starting your own podcast and running it. the production podcast and running it. the production podcast and running it. the production part like like we'll probably do this part like like we'll probably do this part like like we'll probably do this podcast and it's like what is it today? podcast and it's like what is it today? podcast and it's like what is it today? It's the 22nd of July. It's the 22nd of July. It's the 22nd of July. Is this coming out next week or is it Is this coming out next week or is it Is this coming out next week or is it coming out like after school? Like dude, coming out like after school? Like dude, coming out like after school? Like dude, you're going to spend hours editing you're going to spend hours editing you're going to spend hours editing this. Yeah. this. Yeah. this. Yeah. >> So, I would probably say maybe don't. >> So, I would probably say maybe don't. >> So, I would probably say maybe don't. >> Now, I know that you're kids and you >> Now, I know that you're kids and you >> Now, I know that you're kids and you have no money, but like could you hire have no money, but like could you hire have no money, but like could you hire someone on Fiverr? someone on Fiverr? someone on Fiverr? >> Could you like pay a local kid? Could >> Could you like pay a local kid? Could >> Could you like pay a local kid? Could you find a kid who works in the music you find a kid who works in the music you find a kid who works in the music department? Right? Like Cam's got music department? Right? Like Cam's got music department? Right? Like Cam's got music interest. He's got guitars. Somebody out interest. He's got guitars. Somebody out interest. He's got guitars. Somebody out there needs to edit this. there needs to edit this. there needs to edit this. >> So when you start a podcast, don't just >> So when you start a podcast, don't just >> So when you start a podcast, don't just yap for 30 minutes and then in six weeks yap for 30 minutes and then in six weeks yap for 30 minutes and then in six weeks I'm gonna like email Shri. I'm like, I'm gonna like email Shri. I'm like, I'm gonna like email Shri. I'm like, "Bro, where's the show?" Oh, life got "Bro, where's the show?" Oh, life got "Bro, where's the show?" Oh, life got busy. Get it done. Do the thing. And you busy. Get it done. Do the thing. And you busy. Get it done. Do the thing. And you don't have to do it perfect. It doesn't don't have to do it perfect. It doesn't don't have to do it perfect. It doesn't have to be an A+ podcast where you talk have to be an A+ podcast where you talk have to be an A+ podcast where you talk for 30 minutes and then edit for 6 for 30 minutes and then edit for 6 for 30 minutes and then edit for 6 hours. Like, just remove the ums, level hours. Like, just remove the ums, level hours. Like, just remove the ums, level the audio, make sure that we're all at the audio, make sure that we're all at the audio, make sure that we're all at the same level. Use the tools you have the same level. Use the tools you have the same level. Use the tools you have available because the the world is available because the the world is available because the the world is littered with podcasts that people have littered with podcasts that people have littered with podcasts that people have given up on. Oh, we did seven episodes given up on. Oh, we did seven episodes given up on. Oh, we did seven episodes and then life happened. I've done 1,053 and then life happened. I've done 1,053 and then life happened. I've done 1,053 episodes. They're not all good.

episodes. They're not all good. episodes. They're not all good. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But I've got a good producer. >> But I've got a good producer. >> But I've got a good producer. >> Yeah, that's >> Yeah, that's >> Yeah, that's >> Find someone to do your editing for you. >> Find someone to do your editing for you. >> Find someone to do your editing for you. That's my tip. I mean, watching your That's my tip. I mean, watching your That's my tip. I mean, watching your podcast a lot and like listening to it, podcast a lot and like listening to it, podcast a lot and like listening to it, not only did it help me a lot, like not only did it help me a lot, like not only did it help me a lot, like that's kind of what got me into like that's kind of what got me into like that's kind of what got me into like podcasting, reaching out to Cam, you podcasting, reaching out to Cam, you podcasting, reaching out to Cam, you want to make a podcast with me. And I want to make a podcast with me. And I want to make a podcast with me. And I mean, like seeing that not like a lot a mean, like seeing that not like a lot a mean, like seeing that not like a lot a lot of podcasts that I watch, seeing lot of podcasts that I watch, seeing lot of podcasts that I watch, seeing that people didn't just like stop after that people didn't just like stop after that people didn't just like stop after a video just flunked. They just kept a video just flunked. They just kept a video just flunked. They just kept pushing through. They kept making little pushing through. They kept making little pushing through. They kept making little videos and just eventually got better videos and just eventually got better videos and just eventually got better and better with experience. That's kind and better with experience. That's kind and better with experience. That's kind of what of what of what >> Oh, dude. >> Oh, dude. >> Oh, dude. The first hundred episodes nobody The first hundred episodes nobody The first hundred episodes nobody listened to. listened to. listened to. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And and everybody wants to be on >> And and everybody wants to be on >> And and everybody wants to be on streamer university and oh Kais can do streamer university and oh Kais can do streamer university and oh Kais can do it. I can do dude grind. Did you see on it. I can do dude grind. Did you see on it. I can do dude grind. Did you see on streamer university last week when streamer university last week when streamer university last week when what's that guy's name? The guy with a what's that guy's name? The guy with a what's that guy's name? The guy with a German name like what's the dude who's German name like what's the dude who's German name like what's the dude who's doing the classes? doing the classes? doing the classes? >> Forgot his name. Anyway, one of these >> Forgot his name. Anyway, one of these >> Forgot his name. Anyway, one of these guys is doing a class. guys is doing a class. guys is doing a class. >> I forgot his name. Lewig. Ledwick is >> I forgot his name. Lewig. Ledwick is >> I forgot his name. Lewig. Ledwick is doing a class doing a class doing a class >> and then 30 people were given homework.

>> and then 30 people were given homework. >> and then 30 people were given homework. One girl did the homework. One girl did the homework. One girl did the homework. >> I think >> I think >> I think >> one girl did homework. Like that's the >> one girl did homework. Like that's the >> one girl did homework. Like that's the other thing. Like freaking show up. Like other thing. Like freaking show up. Like other thing. Like freaking show up. Like you can tell that she's serious about you can tell that she's serious about you can tell that she's serious about being a streamer and the rest of them being a streamer and the rest of them being a streamer and the rest of them are just there for the the clout. So if are just there for the the clout. So if are just there for the the clout. So if more than 10 people listen to your show, more than 10 people listen to your show, more than 10 people listen to your show, that is a success. You do not need a that is a success. You do not need a that is a success. You do not need a thousand views. 10 people is 10 more thousand views. 10 people is 10 more thousand views. 10 people is 10 more than are in the room with us right now. than are in the room with us right now. than are in the room with us right now. That is some great advice. Grinding and That is some great advice. Grinding and That is some great advice. Grinding and consistency. I agree. There's some like consistency. I agree. There's some like consistency. I agree. There's some like the most important things you can learn the most important things you can learn the most important things you can learn how to do, especially in high school. Is how to do, especially in high school. Is how to do, especially in high school. Is there any other advice like that you there any other advice like that you there any other advice like that you would give someone in our shoes right would give someone in our shoes right would give someone in our shoes right now while we're just starting? Cuz I now while we're just starting? Cuz I now while we're just starting? Cuz I know you had plenty of experience. know you had plenty of experience. know you had plenty of experience. You're on your what past episode. You're on your what past episode. You're on your what past episode. >> When you say you're and I'm interested, >> When you say you're and I'm interested, >> When you say you're and I'm interested, by the way, I want to hear from you guys by the way, I want to hear from you guys by the way, I want to hear from you guys after your parents listen to the show after your parents listen to the show after your parents listen to the show >> and if they disagree or agree like Yeah. >> and if they disagree or agree like Yeah. >> and if they disagree or agree like Yeah. Well, they're going to give you parent Well, they're going to give you parent Well, they're going to give you parent versions of what I say, but doing what versions of what I say, but doing what versions of what I say, but doing what you say you're going to do. Like, I you say you're going to do. Like, I you say you're going to do. Like, I trust that Tria is going to edit this or trust that Tria is going to edit this or trust that Tria is going to edit this or you're going to edit this and it's going you're going to edit this and it's going you're going to edit this and it's going to get published. It's sad. I have had to get published. It's sad. I have had to get published. It's sad. I have had shows where I'll come on with a bunch of shows where I'll come on with a bunch of shows where I'll come on with a bunch of folks like you and we'll do a show and folks like you and we'll do a show and folks like you and we'll do a show and the show will never come out because the show will never come out because the show will never come out because they just they didn't produce the show.

they just they didn't produce the show. they just they didn't produce the show. I'm watching uh on my TikTok, there's I'm watching uh on my TikTok, there's I'm watching uh on my TikTok, there's two ladies right now that are going two ladies right now that are going two ladies right now that are going viral on Tik Tok because they lost their viral on Tik Tok because they lost their viral on Tik Tok because they lost their jobs. one lost their job because they jobs. one lost their job because they jobs. one lost their job because they got the job and on day one and day two got the job and on day one and day two got the job and on day one and day two they didn't show up on time. They were they didn't show up on time. They were they didn't show up on time. They were three minutes late and then five minutes three minutes late and then five minutes three minutes late and then five minutes late and they're fighting for their late and they're fighting for their late and they're fighting for their lives in the comments but the facts are lives in the comments but the facts are lives in the comments but the facts are they didn't show up for work. they didn't show up for work. they didn't show up for work. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So do the thing >> So do the thing >> So do the thing >> consistent. >> consistent. >> consistent. >> Consistent. Second lady was told that >> Consistent. Second lady was told that >> Consistent. Second lady was told that she had to get a notary and notorized she had to get a notary and notorized she had to get a notary and notorized document and she didn't she's like I document and she didn't she's like I document and she didn't she's like I didn't know what that was so I just sent didn't know what that was so I just sent didn't know what that was so I just sent it in and she lost the job and moved to it in and she lost the job and moved to it in and she lost the job and moved to Florida and now she's homeless and every Florida and now she's homeless and every Florida and now she's homeless and every again fighting for her life in the again fighting for her life in the again fighting for her life in the comments and everyone's like paperwork comments and everyone's like paperwork comments and everyone's like paperwork man do the paperwork so apply that to man do the paperwork so apply that to man do the paperwork so apply that to software apply that to adulting it software apply that to adulting it software apply that to adulting it doesn't mean grind grind means like doesn't mean grind grind means like doesn't mean grind grind means like suffer I'm not saying suffer I'm saying suffer I'm not saying suffer I'm saying suffer I'm not saying suffer I'm saying write stuff down make a list do the write stuff down make a list do the write stuff down make a list do the thing it is so much easier to just empty thing it is so much easier to just empty thing it is so much easier to just empty the dishwasher than it is to fight with the dishwasher than it is to fight with the dishwasher than it is to fight with your mom about emptying the dishwasher. your mom about emptying the dishwasher. your mom about emptying the dishwasher. >> It is so much easier to just go to get a >> It is so much easier to just go to get a >> It is so much easier to just go to get a notary, fill out the form, send the notary, fill out the form, send the notary, fill out the form, send the thing in, just drop the mail. Sorry. Go thing in, just drop the mail. Sorry. Go thing in, just drop the mail. Sorry. Go ahead, Trey.

ahead, Trey. ahead, Trey. >> No, no, you're good. Uh, this is a huge >> No, no, you're good. Uh, this is a huge >> No, no, you're good. Uh, this is a huge thing into my mind, but I just thought thing into my mind, but I just thought thing into my mind, but I just thought since I could give you guys so much since I could give you guys so much since I could give you guys so much advice, I'd rather think ask you about advice, I'd rather think ask you about advice, I'd rather think ask you about this, but I'm guessing you've probably this, but I'm guessing you've probably this, but I'm guessing you've probably gone through this is a huge thing for me gone through this is a huge thing for me gone through this is a huge thing for me at least right now in high school is at least right now in high school is at least right now in high school is procrastinating a lot. Like whether it procrastinating a lot. Like whether it procrastinating a lot. Like whether it be school work, whether it be producing be school work, whether it be producing be school work, whether it be producing this, I just keep saying I'll do it. this, I just keep saying I'll do it. this, I just keep saying I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll do it and I just never I'll do it. I'll do it and I just never I'll do it. I'll do it and I just never do it. How did you What's your view on do it. How did you What's your view on do it. How did you What's your view on that? I I guess that? I I guess that? I I guess >> it is normal to procrastinate, but you >> it is normal to procrastinate, but you >> it is normal to procrastinate, but you also have to acknowledge that you are also have to acknowledge that you are also have to acknowledge that you are fighting with fighting with fighting with social media and the infinite doom social media and the infinite doom social media and the infinite doom scrolling that's telling you that you're scrolling that's telling you that you're scrolling that's telling you that you're not there yet. not there yet. not there yet. >> Honestly, I'm telling you guys, social >> Honestly, I'm telling you guys, social >> Honestly, I'm telling you guys, social media is destroying you. So, like I media is destroying you. So, like I media is destroying you. So, like I don't have the time. You were on you don't have the time. You were on you don't have the time. You were on you were on TikTok for three hours today. I were on TikTok for three hours today. I were on TikTok for three hours today. I don't have the time. I was on like oh I don't have the time. I was on like oh I don't have the time. I was on like oh I was on you know like doom scrolling for was on you know like doom scrolling for was on you know like doom scrolling for three hours. three hours. three hours. >> Like you guys don't even know how to >> Like you guys don't even know how to >> Like you guys don't even know how to crap without your phones. crap without your phones. crap without your phones. Like that's a crazy thing for me to say Like that's a crazy thing for me to say Like that's a crazy thing for me to say on a podcast, but like let's just be on a podcast, but like let's just be on a podcast, but like let's just be real. Does anyone under 25 know how to real. Does anyone under 25 know how to real. Does anyone under 25 know how to simply go to the bathroom and do their simply go to the bathroom and do their simply go to the bathroom and do their business without a freaking phone? Try business without a freaking phone? Try business without a freaking phone? Try it. Let me tell it'll make it'll get you it. Let me tell it'll make it'll get you it. Let me tell it'll make it'll get you out of the can faster. But those kinds out of the can faster. But those kinds out of the can faster. But those kinds of things are those kind of things are of things are those kind of things are of things are those kind of things are affecting you and how you choose to do affecting you and how you choose to do affecting you and how you choose to do stuff because you know I can't I'm going stuff because you know I can't I'm going stuff because you know I can't I'm going to wait in line here at DMV and get my to wait in line here at DMV and get my to wait in line here at DMV and get my license renewed because I can't do it license renewed because I can't do it license renewed because I can't do it unless I sit on my phone. If you simply unless I sit on my phone. If you simply unless I sit on my phone. If you simply do the thing now there's actually this

do the thing now there's actually this do the thing now there's actually this guy you should Google named David Allen guy you should Google named David Allen guy you should Google named David Allen and he's got this great book called and he's got this great book called and he's got this great book called Getting Things Done. He talks about the Getting Things Done. He talks about the Getting Things Done. He talks about the four Ds. Do it, drop it, delegate it. four Ds. Do it, drop it, delegate it. four Ds. Do it, drop it, delegate it. Delegate means have someone else do it Delegate means have someone else do it Delegate means have someone else do it >> or defer it, which means do it later. >> or defer it, which means do it later. >> or defer it, which means do it later. >> If something's going to take less than >> If something's going to take less than >> If something's going to take less than five minutes, do it. So, take that. Can five minutes, do it. So, take that. Can five minutes, do it. So, take that. Can I do the thing in 5 minutes? Write a I do the thing in 5 minutes? Write a I do the thing in 5 minutes? Write a thank you note, empty the dishwasher, do thank you note, empty the dishwasher, do thank you note, empty the dishwasher, do my own laundry. I don't know if you guys my own laundry. I don't know if you guys my own laundry. I don't know if you guys do your own laundry or not, but like do your own laundry or not, but like do your own laundry or not, but like five minutes is how long it takes to do five minutes is how long it takes to do five minutes is how long it takes to do your own laundry. And you will have your own laundry. And you will have your own laundry. And you will have complaints and arguments for 40 minutes complaints and arguments for 40 minutes complaints and arguments for 40 minutes about not doing a thing. You could have about not doing a thing. You could have about not doing a thing. You could have done it eight times if you just This done it eight times if you just This done it eight times if you just This isn't so real. isn't so real. isn't so real. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> do it. Drop it, delegate it, defer it. >> do it. Drop it, delegate it, defer it. >> do it. Drop it, delegate it, defer it. So, either doing it or just not doing So, either doing it or just not doing So, either doing it or just not doing it, but pick one. it, but pick one. it, but pick one. But when you're an adult and you're out But when you're an adult and you're out But when you're an adult and you're out there or you're a college student, it's there or you're a college student, it's there or you're a college student, it's it's 100% your fault. And watching these it's 100% your fault. And watching these it's 100% your fault. And watching these ladies, just in this one example, these ladies, just in this one example, these ladies, just in this one example, these people fighting in the for their lives people fighting in the for their lives people fighting in the for their lives in the comments trying to get some in the comments trying to get some in the comments trying to get some amount of like, but it wasn't my fault.

amount of like, but it wasn't my fault. amount of like, but it wasn't my fault. I was only 3 minutes late. You should I was only 3 minutes late. You should I was only 3 minutes late. You should have been 5 minutes early. have been 5 minutes early. have been 5 minutes early. >> Like, being on time is late. >> Like, being on time is late. >> Like, being on time is late. Being five minutes early is on time. Being five minutes early is on time. Being five minutes early is on time. >> And that is literally going to be the >> And that is literally going to be the >> And that is literally going to be the difference between like success and difference between like success and difference between like success and failure. failure. failure. Nobody cares. You didn't your car broke Nobody cares. You didn't your car broke Nobody cares. You didn't your car broke down? Get an Uber. down? Get an Uber. down? Get an Uber. You don't have a car, get to take the You don't have a car, get to take the You don't have a car, get to take the bus. Get up earlier. Like that's the do bus. Get up earlier. Like that's the do bus. Get up earlier. Like that's the do the thing you say you're going to do. So the thing you say you're going to do. So the thing you say you're going to do. So yeah, I know I'm like going to full dad yeah, I know I'm like going to full dad yeah, I know I'm like going to full dad mode now. mode now. mode now. This This This >> is some good advice now. I appreciate >> is some good advice now. I appreciate >> is some good advice now. I appreciate it. it. it. Have you ever thought about like Have you ever thought about like Have you ever thought about like starting your own business or finding starting your own business or finding starting your own business or finding your own startup? your own startup? your own startup? >> Well, that'll get political. >> Well, that'll get political. >> Well, that'll get political. If I could get health care, yes, I'm If I could get health care, yes, I'm If I could get health care, yes, I'm actually a type 1 diabetic, so I have an actually a type 1 diabetic, so I have an actually a type 1 diabetic, so I have an insulin pump uh and I have a sensor. So, insulin pump uh and I have a sensor. So, insulin pump uh and I have a sensor. So, these are like plugs into my body, these are like plugs into my body, these are like plugs into my body, right? So, I need insulin or I will die. right? So, I need insulin or I will die. right? So, I need insulin or I will die. And I mean like I'll be dead in two And I mean like I'll be dead in two And I mean like I'll be dead in two weeks if I run out of insulin. So, weeks if I run out of insulin. So, weeks if I run out of insulin. So, insurance is super important. But of all insurance is super important. But of all insurance is super important. But of all the countries that were in the World the countries that were in the World the countries that were in the World Cup, we are the only one that does not Cup, we are the only one that does not Cup, we are the only one that does not have that does not have health universal have that does not have health universal have that does not have health universal health. So yes, I am at my company that health. So yes, I am at my company that health. So yes, I am at my company that I like very much primarily because we I like very much primarily because we I like very much primarily because we have really great healthcare. If I could have really great healthcare. If I could have really great healthcare. If I could start a business and buy healthcare on start a business and buy healthcare on start a business and buy healthcare on some open market, I would 100% start a some open market, I would 100% start a some open market, I would 100% start a business tomorrow. And I think that lots business tomorrow. And I think that lots business tomorrow. And I think that lots of people would start businesses. you of people would start businesses. you of people would start businesses. you guys, you know, you're going to be on guys, you know, you're going to be on guys, you know, you're going to be on your parents healthcare till you're 26, your parents healthcare till you're 26, your parents healthcare till you're 26, but when you're 27, if you don't have a but when you're 27, if you don't have a but when you're 27, if you don't have a job, you're going to be hating life.

job, you're going to be hating life. job, you're going to be hating life. >> That's why I'm trying to work on a >> That's why I'm trying to work on a >> That's why I'm trying to work on a startup right now. See what I can get startup right now. See what I can get startup right now. See what I can get done. done. done. >> But you get it for free though because >> But you get it for free though because >> But you get it for free though because you got your you got your you got your >> That's why I got to start out. >> That's why I got to start out. >> That's why I got to start out. So yeah, I just think that if you are if So yeah, I just think that if you are if So yeah, I just think that if you are if your political party says you are the your political party says you are the your political party says you are the party of business, then a business party party of business, then a business party party of business, then a business party would support paid time off time for would support paid time off time for would support paid time off time for people to have babies and like parental people to have babies and like parental people to have babies and like parental leave and and help. leave and and help. leave and and help. >> Yeah. Since we're on the topic of >> Yeah. Since we're on the topic of >> Yeah. Since we're on the topic of diabetes, I did a little bit of research diabetes, I did a little bit of research diabetes, I did a little bit of research and I saw that you already do have some and I saw that you already do have some and I saw that you already do have some experience with things like Glucco experience with things like Glucco experience with things like Glucco Pilot. Like I saw that you made that Pilot. Like I saw that you made that Pilot. Like I saw that you made that like a long time ago. 1998. like a long time ago. 1998. like a long time ago. 1998. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Just crazy enough before I was born. >> Just crazy enough before I was born. >> Just crazy enough before I was born. >> Shout out to doing research. Good job. >> Shout out to doing research. Good job. >> Shout out to doing research. Good job. >> Thank you. Because you were designing >> Thank you. Because you were designing >> Thank you. Because you were designing this thing not only as a programmer but this thing not only as a programmer but this thing not only as a programmer but with someone as someone who was actively with someone as someone who was actively with someone as someone who was actively living it. What did you catch that living it. What did you catch that living it. What did you catch that someone who wasn't diabetic? someone who wasn't diabetic? someone who wasn't diabetic? >> That's a great point. So that's a good >> That's a great point. So that's a good >> That's a great point. So that's a good topic where we talk about diverse teams.

topic where we talk about diverse teams. topic where we talk about diverse teams. If 10 people get together to write a If 10 people get together to write a If 10 people get together to write a diabetes application and 10 people do diabetes application and 10 people do diabetes application and 10 people do not have diabetes, not have diabetes, not have diabetes, I would argue that that's probably not a I would argue that that's probably not a I would argue that that's probably not a diverse team because there's no one to diverse team because there's no one to diverse team because there's no one to work with, right? Like if I'm working on work with, right? Like if I'm working on work with, right? Like if I'm working on an app for veterans and no one on the an app for veterans and no one on the an app for veterans and no one on the team is a veteran, how can I truly team is a veteran, how can I truly team is a veteran, how can I truly understand what a veteran needs? So as a understand what a veteran needs? So as a understand what a veteran needs? So as a diabetic writing an app for myself, I diabetic writing an app for myself, I diabetic writing an app for myself, I fully and completely understood the fully and completely understood the fully and completely understood the topic and then I later sold it and topic and then I later sold it and topic and then I later sold it and worked with a healthcare company to make worked with a healthcare company to make worked with a healthcare company to make it better. So if you're making a an app it better. So if you're making a an app it better. So if you're making a an app for an audience, make sure that someone for an audience, make sure that someone for an audience, make sure that someone on your team is that audience so that on your team is that audience so that on your team is that audience so that they I wouldn't make an app for teens if they I wouldn't make an app for teens if they I wouldn't make an app for teens if I wasn't a teen. I would get a teen as I wasn't a teen. I would get a teen as I wasn't a teen. I would get a teen as an adviser or a board member or a an adviser or a board member or a an adviser or a board member or a programmer. So, I don't know what programmer. So, I don't know what programmer. So, I don't know what specifically I did, like specific specifically I did, like specific specifically I did, like specific features that were better, but there was features that were better, but there was features that were better, but there was a ton of stuff that is intuitive to me a ton of stuff that is intuitive to me a ton of stuff that is intuitive to me that would not be intuitive to you that would not be intuitive to you that would not be intuitive to you unless you were also diabetic, unless you were also diabetic, unless you were also diabetic, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Yeah, diverse teams is always a better >> Yeah, diverse teams is always a better >> Yeah, diverse teams is always a better better thing.

better thing. better thing. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Go ahead, Kim. >> Go ahead, Kim. >> Go ahead, Kim. >> Thank you. Uh, I have one more question >> Thank you. Uh, I have one more question >> Thank you. Uh, I have one more question about Glucco Pilot really quick. You about Glucco Pilot really quick. You about Glucco Pilot really quick. You mentioned that you sold it. So, I was mentioned that you sold it. So, I was mentioned that you sold it. So, I was just curious, what was it like to sell just curious, what was it like to sell just curious, what was it like to sell something that came out of something so something that came out of something so something that came out of something so personal to you? That's funny that you personal to you? That's funny that you personal to you? That's funny that you mentioned that. So, I think I sold it mentioned that. So, I think I sold it mentioned that. So, I think I sold it for like $25,000, which was not enough for like $25,000, which was not enough for like $25,000, which was not enough money. I was young. I totally got ripped money. I was young. I totally got ripped money. I was young. I totally got ripped off, but it helped me like, you know, off, but it helped me like, you know, off, but it helped me like, you know, move out of my parents house. So, it's move out of my parents house. So, it's move out of my parents house. So, it's one of those things where it was the one of those things where it was the one of those things where it was the exactly how much money I needed at the exactly how much money I needed at the exactly how much money I needed at the time, but I was sad because then they time, but I was sad because then they time, but I was sad because then they took it and they did a bunch of features took it and they did a bunch of features took it and they did a bunch of features and added a bunch of stuff and I was and added a bunch of stuff and I was and added a bunch of stuff and I was like, "No, that's not don't do that." I like, "No, that's not don't do that." I like, "No, that's not don't do that." I think I have the CD over on my shelf. I think I have the CD over on my shelf. I think I have the CD over on my shelf. I can go get it with like they have like a can go get it with like they have like a can go get it with like they have like a a package CD that you could buy with the a package CD that you could buy with the a package CD that you could buy with the thing and they made like an instruction thing and they made like an instruction thing and they made like an instruction manual and just like they went in a manual and just like they went in a manual and just like they went in a totally weird direction. You have to totally weird direction. You have to totally weird direction. You have to just let go. I was I was low-key sad just let go. I was I was low-key sad just let go. I was I was low-key sad that they did that but at the same time that they did that but at the same time that they did that but at the same time I'm like well they did give me money so I'm like well they did give me money so I'm like well they did give me money so like I will I will wipe my tears with my like I will I will wipe my tears with my like I will I will wipe my tears with my $100 bills.

$100 bills. $100 bills. So relating to the role that you're at So relating to the role that you're at So relating to the role that you're at right now, right now, right now, it's more it's like you have a lot of it's more it's like you have a lot of it's more it's like you have a lot of mentoring to do, right? So if you're mentoring to do, right? So if you're mentoring to do, right? So if you're mentoring early career engineers through mentoring early career engineers through mentoring early career engineers through this AI augmented like time, what was this AI augmented like time, what was this AI augmented like time, what was something that you would tell them now something that you would tell them now something that you would tell them now that's different than what you would that's different than what you would that's different than what you would tell them in like 2023 or anything tell them in like 2023 or anything tell them in like 2023 or anything before live coding started? before live coding started? before live coding started? >> Yeah. Well, do you guys have your >> Yeah. Well, do you guys have your >> Yeah. Well, do you guys have your licenses? licenses? licenses? >> No. >> No. >> No. >> Drive? >> Drive? >> Drive? Not yet. Not yet. Not yet. >> Not yet. get on my permit, but I'm too >> Not yet. get on my permit, but I'm too >> Not yet. get on my permit, but I'm too lazy. lazy. lazy. >> Yeah, well, don't do that. Like, you got >> Yeah, well, don't do that. Like, you got >> Yeah, well, don't do that. Like, you got to learn how to drive, man. So, consider to learn how to drive, man. So, consider to learn how to drive, man. So, consider what driving stick shift would mean and what driving stick shift would mean and what driving stick shift would mean and whether or not your parents know how to whether or not your parents know how to whether or not your parents know how to drive stick shift. Do either of your drive stick shift. Do either of your drive stick shift. Do either of your parents drive stick? parents drive stick? parents drive stick? >> Yeah, my my dad does. >> Yeah, my my dad does. >> Yeah, my my dad does. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Your dad does. >> Your dad does. >> Your dad does. >> The old cars. >> The old cars. >> The old cars. >> He got the older cars, right? So, think >> He got the older cars, right? So, think >> He got the older cars, right? So, think about his relationship with the car about his relationship with the car about his relationship with the car versus your relationship with the car versus your relationship with the car versus your relationship with the car versus someone who only knows how to versus someone who only knows how to versus someone who only knows how to Uber. Knowing how to drive stick Uber. Knowing how to drive stick Uber. Knowing how to drive stick arguably means that your dad has a arguably means that your dad has a arguably means that your dad has a different relationship with the different relationship with the different relationship with the mechanics of the vehicle. He feels it.

mechanics of the vehicle. He feels it. mechanics of the vehicle. He feels it. He knows when to shift. Apply that to He knows when to shift. Apply that to He knows when to shift. Apply that to software. Like if you if you're just software. Like if you if you're just software. Like if you if you're just like, "Oh, it's Vibes, man." You don't like, "Oh, it's Vibes, man." You don't like, "Oh, it's Vibes, man." You don't really understand. you're just like really understand. you're just like really understand. you're just like sitting in this car and then you're in sitting in this car and then you're in sitting in this car and then you're in this Uber and then you need to change a this Uber and then you need to change a this Uber and then you need to change a tire or the oil goes out or the fan belt tire or the oil goes out or the fan belt tire or the oil goes out or the fan belt dies or any like like whatever. What's dies or any like like whatever. What's dies or any like like whatever. What's the programming equivalent of, oh crap, the programming equivalent of, oh crap, the programming equivalent of, oh crap, I need to change my oil. And you hear I need to change my oil. And you hear I need to change my oil. And you hear all these Redditors that are like all these Redditors that are like all these Redditors that are like technical, but they're not coders. And technical, but they're not coders. And technical, but they're not coders. And there's a difference. Yeah, there's a difference. Yeah, there's a difference. Yeah, >> like just because you're the one who >> like just because you're the one who >> like just because you're the one who knows how to go into Windows settings or knows how to go into Windows settings or knows how to go into Windows settings or run the regedit and like put on a run the regedit and like put on a run the regedit and like put on a Minecraft mod, Minecraft mod, Minecraft mod, that is not technical. That is like, oh, that is not technical. That is like, oh, that is not technical. That is like, oh, I can pop the hood and look for fire. I can pop the hood and look for fire. I can pop the hood and look for fire. You are not a mechanic. You are not a mechanic. You are not a mechanic. So, really think about the basics. Learn So, really think about the basics. Learn So, really think about the basics. Learn how the machine works. how the machine works. how the machine works. That's that's the thing. A lot of people That's that's the thing. A lot of people That's that's the thing. A lot of people just vibing code and making stuff which just vibing code and making stuff which just vibing code and making stuff which is effectively they're ubering their way is effectively they're ubering their way is effectively they're ubering their way to a solution. I would never do that to a solution. I would never do that to a solution. I would never do that because I want to know how I got there.

because I want to know how I got there. because I want to know how I got there. How did I You said you're making a How did I You said you're making a How did I You said you're making a startup. If startup. If startup. If >> if you don't know how to make software >> if you don't know how to make software >> if you don't know how to make software and I want to call out the difference and I want to call out the difference and I want to call out the difference between computer science and software between computer science and software between computer science and software engineering. engineering. engineering. >> Computer science is the science behind >> Computer science is the science behind >> Computer science is the science behind compilers and software and computers and compilers and software and computers and compilers and software and computers and multi-threading and all that stuff. It multi-threading and all that stuff. It multi-threading and all that stuff. It is not the science of shipping. That's is not the science of shipping. That's is not the science of shipping. That's what software engineering is. So, learn what software engineering is. So, learn what software engineering is. So, learn the software development life cycle. the software development life cycle. the software development life cycle. Learn how to build servers. Learn about Learn how to build servers. Learn about Learn how to build servers. Learn about security reviews and all that kind of security reviews and all that kind of security reviews and all that kind of stuff. There's so much more involved in stuff. There's so much more involved in stuff. There's so much more involved in shipping than vibing. And this is, by shipping than vibing. And this is, by shipping than vibing. And this is, by the way, this is not just like old man the way, this is not just like old man the way, this is not just like old man shakes fisted cloud. Like, I'm telling shakes fisted cloud. Like, I'm telling shakes fisted cloud. Like, I'm telling you, you, you, >> you will >> you will >> you will get in trouble. Like, you're going to be get in trouble. Like, you're going to be get in trouble. Like, you're going to be like, when you don't understand your like, when you don't understand your like, when you don't understand your system, that's when you're in trouble. system, that's when you're in trouble. system, that's when you're in trouble. You've also recently, at least from what You've also recently, at least from what You've also recently, at least from what I saw, you recently talked about making I saw, you recently talked about making I saw, you recently talked about making the ambiguous specific is the actual the ambiguous specific is the actual the ambiguous specific is the actual like thing behind programming. Would you like thing behind programming. Would you like thing behind programming. Would you say that if that's true, would you say say that if that's true, would you say say that if that's true, would you say prompt engineering counts as programming prompt engineering counts as programming prompt engineering counts as programming or is it a completely different thing or is it a completely different thing or is it a completely different thing that's wear programmer's clothes?

that's wear programmer's clothes? that's wear programmer's clothes? >> Oh, that's a great question. Okay, so >> Oh, that's a great question. Okay, so >> Oh, that's a great question. Okay, so first I'm gonna be a little spicy. first I'm gonna be a little spicy. first I'm gonna be a little spicy. Prompt engineering is not a thing. Okay, Prompt engineering is not a thing. Okay, Prompt engineering is not a thing. Okay, so you and Cam could both prompt so you and Cam could both prompt so you and Cam could both prompt the exact same prompt. the exact same prompt. the exact same prompt. You will not get the exact same code. You will not get the exact same code. You will not get the exact same code. So that by its definition means that the So that by its definition means that the So that by its definition means that the prompt was ambiguous. The prompt is not prompt was ambiguous. The prompt is not prompt was ambiguous. The prompt is not a programming language. But if you and a programming language. But if you and a programming language. But if you and Cam each wrote a for loop in C Cam each wrote a for loop in C Cam each wrote a for loop in C and it compiled and it was the same for and it compiled and it was the same for and it compiled and it was the same for loop, it would run deterministically. loop, it would run deterministically. loop, it would run deterministically. That for loop is guaranteed every time That for loop is guaranteed every time That for loop is guaranteed every time until the end of time to work. until the end of time to work. until the end of time to work. >> So then let's say we had a million trees >> So then let's say we had a million trees >> So then let's say we had a million trees and cams all doing the exact same and cams all doing the exact same and cams all doing the exact same prompt. How many? So a million people prompt. How many? So a million people prompt. How many? So a million people all prompting the exact same prompt. all prompting the exact same prompt. all prompting the exact same prompt. How many unique results are there? Are How many unique results are there? Are How many unique results are there? Are there a million? Are there 100,000? Like there a million? Are there 100,000? Like there a million? Are there 100,000? Like what is the ratio of prompt to solution?

what is the ratio of prompt to solution? what is the ratio of prompt to solution? How many potential solutions are there? How many potential solutions are there? How many potential solutions are there? There's an old programmer's joke you may There's an old programmer's joke you may There's an old programmer's joke you may have heard me tell, but I'll tell you have heard me tell, but I'll tell you have heard me tell, but I'll tell you anyway because it's useful. I need you anyway because it's useful. I need you anyway because it's useful. I need you to go to the store. I want you to get me to go to the store. I want you to get me to go to the store. I want you to get me bread and if they have eggs, get 12. bread and if they have eggs, get 12. bread and if they have eggs, get 12. So, I tell that to Cam. I tell that to So, I tell that to Cam. I tell that to So, I tell that to Cam. I tell that to Shri. Cam comes back with 12 loaves of Shri. Cam comes back with 12 loaves of Shri. Cam comes back with 12 loaves of bread. And I go, Cam, what the heck? And bread. And I go, Cam, what the heck? And bread. And I go, Cam, what the heck? And he's like, they had eggs. Go to the he's like, they had eggs. Go to the he's like, they had eggs. Go to the store, get bread. If they have eggs, get store, get bread. If they have eggs, get store, get bread. If they have eggs, get 12. 12. 12. It's ambiguous. Do you mean 12 eggs or It's ambiguous. Do you mean 12 eggs or It's ambiguous. Do you mean 12 eggs or do you mean 12 loaves of bread? You're do you mean 12 loaves of bread? You're do you mean 12 loaves of bread? You're like, I don't if eggs then 12 like you like, I don't if eggs then 12 like you like, I don't if eggs then 12 like you did the math. You figured it out. did the math. You figured it out. did the math. You figured it out. Arguably, if you give instructions like Arguably, if you give instructions like Arguably, if you give instructions like to somebody, common sense will dictate to somebody, common sense will dictate to somebody, common sense will dictate get eggs and someone else is going to get eggs and someone else is going to get eggs and someone else is going to bring back bread and you could argue bring back bread and you could argue bring back bread and you could argue that they're both right. that they're both right. that they're both right. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> that is ambiguity. >> that is ambiguity. >> that is ambiguity. >> That metaphor is like the first metaphor >> That metaphor is like the first metaphor >> That metaphor is like the first metaphor that actually made sense to me in that. that actually made sense to me in that. that actually made sense to me in that. Are you saying that like the last 20 Are you saying that like the last 20 Are you saying that like the last 20 minutes of my metaphors has been trash?

minutes of my metaphors has been trash? minutes of my metaphors has been trash? >> No, no, no, no. I meant like in that >> No, no, no, no. I meant like in that >> No, no, no, no. I meant like in that specific like in that specific topic out specific like in that specific topic out specific like in that specific topic out of all the metaphors I've heard from of all the metaphors I've heard from of all the metaphors I've heard from everyone, that's the one. everyone, that's the one. everyone, that's the one. >> Oh, really? Oh, rock on, dude. Yeah, >> Oh, really? Oh, rock on, dude. Yeah, >> Oh, really? Oh, rock on, dude. Yeah, >> cuz cuz is that a prompt? It is a >> cuz cuz is that a prompt? It is a >> cuz cuz is that a prompt? It is a prompt. It's not a programming language. prompt. It's not a programming language. prompt. It's not a programming language. Like, here's the deal. English English Like, here's the deal. English English Like, here's the deal. English English is not a programming language. is not a programming language. is not a programming language. >> 90% of the arguments you have with your >> 90% of the arguments you have with your >> 90% of the arguments you have with your friends are about the definitions of friends are about the definitions of friends are about the definitions of words. words. words. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. You want to talk about politics, >> Right. You want to talk about politics, >> Right. You want to talk about politics, you want to talk about this, you want to you want to talk about this, you want to you want to talk about this, you want to talk about that and you're be fighting talk about that and you're be fighting talk about that and you're be fighting and then you're going to a second that's and then you're going to a second that's and then you're going to a second that's not what that word means and what it's not what that word means and what it's not what that word means and what it's not and we've been arguing all this time not and we've been arguing all this time not and we've been arguing all this time because we're arguing about the because we're arguing about the because we're arguing about the definition of this word. That doesn't definition of this word. That doesn't definition of this word. That doesn't happen in programming. Programming is happen in programming. Programming is happen in programming. Programming is clear. Compilers are clear. The clear. Compilers are clear. The clear. Compilers are clear. The definition of a keyword and the definition of a keyword and the definition of a keyword and the definition of what a word is in program definition of what a word is in program definition of what a word is in program is absolutely rock solid scientifically is absolutely rock solid scientifically is absolutely rock solid scientifically clear. clear. clear. >> But with prompting it's not. So good >> But with prompting it's not. So good >> But with prompting it's not. So good luck. luck. luck. That's That's That's >> Oh, and another thing. If you try to >> Oh, and another thing. If you try to >> Oh, and another thing. If you try to oneshot something, what a oneshot is oneshot something, what a oneshot is oneshot something, what a oneshot is when you ask the prompt, like you ask when you ask the prompt, like you ask when you ask the prompt, like you ask the one prompt and see if it could write the one prompt and see if it could write the one prompt and see if it could write a whole program in one shot.

a whole program in one shot. a whole program in one shot. >> This guy was like, this young person in >> This guy was like, this young person in >> This guy was like, this young person in my my team was like, "Bro, I oneshotted my my team was like, "Bro, I oneshotted my my team was like, "Bro, I oneshotted Minecraft. Programming his code." Minecraft. Programming his code." Minecraft. Programming his code." >> Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, I saw that. >> Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, I saw that. >> Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, I saw that. >> Yeah. And he like, "Make me a clone of >> Yeah. And he like, "Make me a clone of >> Yeah. And he like, "Make me a clone of Minecraft." But the word Minecraft did Minecraft." But the word Minecraft did Minecraft." But the word Minecraft did all the work. So yeah, try oneshot all the work. So yeah, try oneshot all the work. So yeah, try oneshot Minecraft, but you can't use the word Minecraft, but you can't use the word Minecraft, but you can't use the word Minecraft. Minecraft. Minecraft. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And you're gonna end up with slop. >> And you're gonna end up with slop. >> And you're gonna end up with slop. >> All the heavy lifting. Exactly. >> All the heavy lifting. Exactly. >> All the heavy lifting. Exactly. >> I was reading that. >> I was reading that. >> I was reading that. >> Yeah, I talked about that on YouTube. >> Yeah, I talked about that on YouTube. >> Yeah, I talked about that on YouTube. >> Yeah. Yeah, I saw that. >> Yeah. Yeah, I saw that. >> Yeah. Yeah, I saw that. >> That also kind of clicked with me. >> That also kind of clicked with me. >> That also kind of clicked with me. >> That word has like all the semantic >> That word has like all the semantic >> That word has like all the semantic stuff in it. That's what builds the stuff in it. That's what builds the stuff in it. That's what builds the entire project. entire project. entire project. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, seriously, make me a game >> Yeah. I mean, seriously, make me a game >> Yeah. I mean, seriously, make me a game with Mario. It's going to look like with Mario. It's going to look like with Mario. It's going to look like Mario. Make me a game with a weird Mario. Make me a game with a weird Mario. Make me a game with a weird little red Italian plumber with a little red Italian plumber with a little red Italian plumber with a mustache. It's going to be nightmare mustache. It's going to be nightmare mustache. It's going to be nightmare fuel. fuel. fuel. >> Yeah, I think it is a little dangerous >> Yeah, I think it is a little dangerous >> Yeah, I think it is a little dangerous how like this is more the average how like this is more the average how like this is more the average consumer, but some people don't consumer, but some people don't consumer, but some people don't understand that AI just works based on understand that AI just works based on understand that AI just works based on what we already fed. You can't sometimes what we already fed. You can't sometimes what we already fed. You can't sometimes so difficult to make new stuff.

so difficult to make new stuff. so difficult to make new stuff. >> Well, another thing to think about is >> Well, another thing to think about is >> Well, another thing to think about is why AI websites all look the same. Let's why AI websites all look the same. Let's why AI websites all look the same. Let's think about that. So, it's trained on think about that. So, it's trained on think about that. So, it's trained on everyone's website. And if you take a everyone's website. And if you take a everyone's website. And if you take a bunch of things and you blend it up, bunch of things and you blend it up, bunch of things and you blend it up, >> like, you know, you take like all these >> like, you know, you take like all these >> like, you know, you take like all these different fruits and stuff. Yeah. different fruits and stuff. Yeah. different fruits and stuff. Yeah. >> And you blend it, it's going to end up >> And you blend it, it's going to end up >> And you blend it, it's going to end up being gray. being gray. being gray. >> It's going to be it's going to be mid. >> It's going to be it's going to be mid. >> It's going to be it's going to be mid. It's going to be medium. It's going to It's going to be medium. It's going to It's going to be medium. It's going to be the most average looking website. So be the most average looking website. So be the most average looking website. So all of these, you know, opacy looking all of these, you know, opacy looking all of these, you know, opacy looking clawed websites, they all look the same clawed websites, they all look the same clawed websites, they all look the same because they are the statistical average because they are the statistical average because they are the statistical average website. So then your job as programmers website. So then your job as programmers website. So then your job as programmers is to push to the right, push it towards is to push to the right, push it towards is to push to the right, push it towards awesomeness and creativity and make it awesomeness and creativity and make it awesomeness and creativity and make it special, you know, push it away from special, you know, push it away from special, you know, push it away from mediocrity mediocrity mediocrity >> and >> and >> and >> because there's a gravity well that's >> because there's a gravity well that's >> because there's a gravity well that's pulling you towards medioc >> Okay. So, >> Okay. So, >> kind of somewhat recreate that same >> kind of somewhat recreate that same >> kind of somewhat recreate that same base.

base. base. >> That's a great example. Do you think I >> That's a great example. Do you think I >> That's a great example. Do you think I could take a bit map that's perfect like could take a bit map that's perfect like could take a bit map that's perfect like a PND, like a 4K wallpaper, a PND, like a 4K wallpaper, a PND, like a 4K wallpaper, >> save it as a JPEG? >> save it as a JPEG? >> save it as a JPEG? >> Yeah, I know. >> Yeah, I know. >> Yeah, I know. >> And then get back that 4K wallpaper >> And then get back that 4K wallpaper >> And then get back that 4K wallpaper again, again, again, >> right? Because a JPEG is lossy. >> right? Because a JPEG is lossy. >> right? Because a JPEG is lossy. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, ultimately, if I let's say that I >> So, ultimately, if I let's say that I >> So, ultimately, if I let's say that I have a gorgeous 4K wallpaper, save it as have a gorgeous 4K wallpaper, save it as have a gorgeous 4K wallpaper, save it as a JPEG. But then let's say in your a JPEG. But then let's say in your a JPEG. But then let's say in your world, because you just said, "Well, you world, because you just said, "Well, you world, because you just said, "Well, you could," let's say that you magically could," let's say that you magically could," let's say that you magically prompt it back into that 4K wallpaper prompt it back into that 4K wallpaper prompt it back into that 4K wallpaper and then save it as a JPEG again and and then save it as a JPEG again and and then save it as a JPEG again and then prompt it again and then save it a then prompt it again and then save it a then prompt it again and then save it a JPEG and prompt it again and go back and JPEG and prompt it again and go back and JPEG and prompt it again and go back and forth. Are you always going to get back forth. Are you always going to get back forth. Are you always going to get back to where it is or it going to start to to where it is or it going to start to to where it is or it going to start to warp towards something? Yeah. warp towards something? Yeah. warp towards something? Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. Like this is an old an old >> Right. Like this is an old an old >> Right. Like this is an old an old example, but like if you know what example, but like if you know what example, but like if you know what mixtapz are, right, with cassettes and mixtapz are, right, with cassettes and mixtapz are, right, with cassettes and stuff. stuff. stuff. >> We would copy cassettes and then you >> We would copy cassettes and then you >> We would copy cassettes and then you give it to your friend and they'd make a give it to your friend and they'd make a give it to your friend and they'd make a copy. copy. copy. >> You've seen memes and stuff where the >> You've seen memes and stuff where the >> You've seen memes and stuff where the memes are just destroyed. It's because memes are just destroyed. It's because memes are just destroyed. It's because people have been saving those JPEGs over people have been saving those JPEGs over people have been saving those JPEGs over and over and over and a copy of a copy and over and over and a copy of a copy and over and over and a copy of a copy of a copy keeps throwing away of a copy keeps throwing away of a copy keeps throwing away information. So you could take an app information. So you could take an app information. So you could take an app and compress it into a specification, and compress it into a specification, and compress it into a specification, but anything that's ambiguous but anything that's ambiguous but anything that's ambiguous then becomes the statistical mean, which then becomes the statistical mean, which then becomes the statistical mean, which means that when you uncompress it or means that when you uncompress it or means that when you uncompress it or prompt it back into existence, it will prompt it back into existence, it will prompt it back into existence, it will be different. So you could take your be different. So you could take your be different. So you could take your podcast website, ask it to turn it into podcast website, ask it to turn it into podcast website, ask it to turn it into a spec, hand it to Cam, he could then

a spec, hand it to Cam, he could then a spec, hand it to Cam, he could then feed it into a thing and try to get the feed it into a thing and try to get the feed it into a thing and try to get the website back. It will look different, website back. It will look different, website back. It will look different, guaranteed. But you clone the repo, guaranteed. But you clone the repo, guaranteed. But you clone the repo, he can build it. It's going to look he can build it. It's going to look he can build it. It's going to look amazing. It's going to look exactly the amazing. It's going to look exactly the amazing. It's going to look exactly the same. You see the difference? same. You see the difference? same. You see the difference? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Prompting is not programming, people. >> Prompting is not programming, people. >> Prompting is not programming, people. That is the title of the show. That is the title of the show. That is the title of the show. >> Looks like change now. >> Looks like change now. >> Looks like change now. >> Yeah. Is there Okay, I got the hook, >> Yeah. Is there Okay, I got the hook, >> Yeah. Is there Okay, I got the hook, guys. Is there like, guys. Is there like, guys. Is there like, this is kind of random, but something I this is kind of random, but something I this is kind of random, but something I really want to ask you because your really want to ask you because your really want to ask you because your experience, but is there at any point, experience, but is there at any point, experience, but is there at any point, any era, any time, was there like a any era, any time, was there like a any era, any time, was there like a piece of tech that people thought was piece of tech that people thought was piece of tech that people thought was uncool and might maybe they still think uncool and might maybe they still think uncool and might maybe they still think it's uncool and it's weird to use, but it's uncool and it's weird to use, but it's uncool and it's weird to use, but it really did solve its problem, it really did solve its problem, it really did solve its problem, >> dude. So, wired headphones. >> dude. So, wired headphones. >> dude. So, wired headphones. >> Wired headphones. >> Wired headphones. >> Wired headphones. Like, literally, I have a pair of Like, literally, I have a pair of Like, literally, I have a pair of lightning wired headphones. I saw LeBron lightning wired headphones. I saw LeBron lightning wired headphones. I saw LeBron go into a meeting recently with wired go into a meeting recently with wired go into a meeting recently with wired headphones on. Like AirPods, they look headphones on. Like AirPods, they look headphones on. Like AirPods, they look like you've got like Q-tips hanging out like you've got like Q-tips hanging out like you've got like Q-tips hanging out of your ears. Everybody loses one of of your ears. Everybody loses one of of your ears. Everybody loses one of them. them. them. You go from wired headphones where it's You go from wired headphones where it's You go from wired headphones where it's like one thing. They always work. They like one thing. They always work. They like one thing. They always work. They have no battery. There's no pairing.

have no battery. There's no pairing. have no battery. There's no pairing. They just work to three things, the case They just work to three things, the case They just work to three things, the case and two AirPods. There's even website and two AirPods. There's even website and two AirPods. There's even website dedicated to buying one AirPod. It's dedicated to buying one AirPod. It's dedicated to buying one AirPod. It's literally called the right pod and they literally called the right pod and they literally called the right pod and they sell loose AirPods. sell loose AirPods. sell loose AirPods. Like think about that. Someone built an Like think about that. Someone built an Like think about that. Someone built an entire business around selling oneoff entire business around selling oneoff entire business around selling oneoff AirPods because people lose them so AirPods because people lose them so AirPods because people lose them so much. That's dumb. And then their much. That's dumb. And then their much. That's dumb. And then their solution was rather than going back to solution was rather than going back to solution was rather than going back to wired was to make find my friends work wired was to make find my friends work wired was to make find my friends work with each AirPod so you can find the with each AirPod so you can find the with each AirPod so you can find the case and then find the left pod and find case and then find the left pod and find case and then find the left pod and find the right pod. If you simply attach them the right pod. If you simply attach them the right pod. If you simply attach them to each other, you will not lose them. to each other, you will not lose them. to each other, you will not lose them. So yeah, wired man, So yeah, wired man, So yeah, wired man, >> wired headphones, wired everything >> wired headphones, wired everything >> wired headphones, wired everything because like right now Shri, you're because like right now Shri, you're because like right now Shri, you're having a little bit of trouble with your having a little bit of trouble with your having a little bit of trouble with your connection and you're kind of coming and connection and you're kind of coming and connection and you're kind of coming and going a little bit. Wired. If you can going a little bit. Wired. If you can going a little bit. Wired. If you can get a wire to your router, it will get a wire to your router, it will get a wire to your router, it will change your life. change your life. change your life. >> Yeah. Ethernet cable. >> Yeah. Ethernet cable. >> Yeah. Ethernet cable. >> Yeah. Ethernet directly into the router, >> Yeah. Ethernet directly into the router, >> Yeah. Ethernet directly into the router, man. you know, kind of separating from man. you know, kind of separating from man. you know, kind of separating from what we were talking about before, but what we were talking about before, but what we were talking about before, but it was like, like I said earlier, I did it was like, like I said earlier, I did it was like, like I said earlier, I did some research and I saw that you had some research and I saw that you had some research and I saw that you had incredibly wide variety of experience incredibly wide variety of experience incredibly wide variety of experience from programming to teaching to ASL.

from programming to teaching to ASL. from programming to teaching to ASL. Like what inspired this insane amount Like what inspired this insane amount Like what inspired this insane amount like this just crazy amount of like this just crazy amount of like this just crazy amount of >> I'll get a little philosophical for you. >> I'll get a little philosophical for you. >> I'll get a little philosophical for you. Social media has caused guys, and by you Social media has caused guys, and by you Social media has caused guys, and by you guys I mean young people, to feel like guys I mean young people, to feel like guys I mean young people, to feel like you have to pick a thing you have to pick a thing you have to pick a thing and then have one thing. So it's like, and then have one thing. So it's like, and then have one thing. So it's like, oh, I'm a dancer. I'm a programmer. I'm oh, I'm a dancer. I'm a programmer. I'm oh, I'm a dancer. I'm a programmer. I'm a fitness influencer. And like the a fitness influencer. And like the a fitness influencer. And like the reality is that human beings have a reality is that human beings have a reality is that human beings have a diverse series of interests. diverse series of interests. diverse series of interests. You know what I mean? Like if if all you You know what I mean? Like if if all you You know what I mean? Like if if all you do is like code, eat snacks, and play do is like code, eat snacks, and play do is like code, eat snacks, and play COD, then you are not an interesting COD, then you are not an interesting COD, then you are not an interesting person. Like it is okay to I'm just person. Like it is okay to I'm just person. Like it is okay to I'm just making stuff up. Do taekwond do, do making stuff up. Do taekwond do, do making stuff up. Do taekwond do, do ballet, rock climb, play video, you ballet, rock climb, play video, you ballet, rock climb, play video, you know, play Zelda, play Animal Crossing, know, play Zelda, play Animal Crossing, know, play Zelda, play Animal Crossing, and play COD. and play COD. and play COD. But because social media has made it But because social media has made it But because social media has made it like, oh, men are supposed to be like like, oh, men are supposed to be like like, oh, men are supposed to be like this guy, you know what I mean? this guy, you know what I mean? this guy, you know what I mean? Everyone's got to be like Clvicular Everyone's got to be like Clvicular Everyone's got to be like Clvicular because he's so great and everyone else because he's so great and everyone else because he's so great and everyone else got like it's not that deep. If you got like it's not that deep. If you got like it's not that deep. If you think something's cool, then it's cool.

think something's cool, then it's cool. think something's cool, then it's cool. But you're so afraid of being perceived But you're so afraid of being perceived But you're so afraid of being perceived being seen as being cringe that then, being seen as being cringe that then, being seen as being cringe that then, oh, someone's going to post a video of oh, someone's going to post a video of oh, someone's going to post a video of me liking ballet and then they're going me liking ballet and then they're going me liking ballet and then they're going to make fun of me. Okay. So, I came up to make fun of me. Okay. So, I came up to make fun of me. Okay. So, I came up in a time where I didn't have to think in a time where I didn't have to think in a time where I didn't have to think about that. So, I have the confidence to about that. So, I have the confidence to about that. So, I have the confidence to have a diverse series of interests. So, have a diverse series of interests. So, have a diverse series of interests. So, I would encourage you to not I would encourage you to not I would encourage you to not just do one thing. If something's just do one thing. If something's just do one thing. If something's exciting, if it's if it's guitar today, exciting, if it's if it's guitar today, exciting, if it's if it's guitar today, if it's movies tomorrow, do it. Just if it's movies tomorrow, do it. Just if it's movies tomorrow, do it. Just something that I want to add to that is something that I want to add to that is something that I want to add to that is even though like with social media and even though like with social media and even though like with social media and stuff, at least for now, it's at the stuff, at least for now, it's at the stuff, at least for now, it's at the point like you said, where people do it point like you said, where people do it point like you said, where people do it because they're not they're scared to because they're not they're scared to because they're not they're scared to like be judged. But also, at least from like be judged. But also, at least from like be judged. But also, at least from my experience, a lot of these things my experience, a lot of these things my experience, a lot of these things like when you do get judged, it blows like when you do get judged, it blows like when you do get judged, it blows over really fast. People don't realize over really fast. People don't realize over really fast. People don't realize that. So, then they get scared to do it. that. So, then they get scared to do it. that. So, then they get scared to do it. Yeah, that's fair. I mean, I think that Yeah, that's fair. I mean, I think that Yeah, that's fair. I mean, I think that people there's a there's a what do you people there's a there's a what do you people there's a there's a what do you call it? Like a news cycle that happens. call it? Like a news cycle that happens. call it? Like a news cycle that happens. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, but at the same time, >> You know, but at the same time, >> You know, but at the same time, people are afraid that they're still people are afraid that they're still people are afraid that they're still figuring out who they are, right? And figuring out who they are, right? And figuring out who they are, right? And and they and they also feel like you are and they and they also feel like you are and they and they also feel like you are going to figure out who you are and then going to figure out who you are and then going to figure out who you are and then know who you are and then be that same know who you are and then be that same know who you are and then be that same person the whole time.

person the whole time. person the whole time. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I'm like on version seven or eight of >> I'm like on version seven or eight of >> I'm like on version seven or eight of myself. myself. myself. >> You know what I mean? Like I'm I'm >> You know what I mean? Like I'm I'm >> You know what I mean? Like I'm I'm figuring stuff out, man. Like it's just figuring stuff out, man. Like it's just figuring stuff out, man. Like it's just like I told you, it's group projects. like I told you, it's group projects. like I told you, it's group projects. It's tall grade school. We're all just It's tall grade school. We're all just It's tall grade school. We're all just kind of learning how to do stuff. kind of learning how to do stuff. kind of learning how to do stuff. >> So it's okay to like, oh, I'm not >> So it's okay to like, oh, I'm not >> So it's okay to like, oh, I'm not interested in that thing anymore. I'm interested in that thing anymore. I'm interested in that thing anymore. I'm interested in another thing. So you want interested in another thing. So you want interested in another thing. So you want to have friend group of people around to have friend group of people around to have friend group of people around you that acknowledge that you can you that acknowledge that you can you that acknowledge that you can change. change. change. >> Oh, dude. I thought you were all into >> Oh, dude. I thought you were all into >> Oh, dude. I thought you were all into cot. No, I'm not into cotton anymore. cot. No, I'm not into cotton anymore. cot. No, I'm not into cotton anymore. I'm into this other thing. I'm into this other thing. I'm into this other thing. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Like let your people grow. >> Like let your people grow. >> Like let your people grow. >> Yeah. And me and KS friend groups are >> Yeah. And me and KS friend groups are >> Yeah. And me and KS friend groups are pretty good that pretty good that pretty good that >> just something that Okay, it's my turn >> just something that Okay, it's my turn >> just something that Okay, it's my turn to make a metaphor now. to make a metaphor now. to make a metaphor now. But you've said before that it's But you've said before that it's But you've said before that it's significant that diabetics historically, significant that diabetics historically, significant that diabetics historically, at least like in the past, they don't at least like in the past, they don't at least like in the past, they don't really die of diabetes, but they die really die of diabetes, but they die really die of diabetes, but they die because of what it causes over decades. because of what it causes over decades. because of what it causes over decades. So is there like an equivalent of that So is there like an equivalent of that So is there like an equivalent of that in software? I'd say like a slow failure in software? I'd say like a slow failure in software? I'd say like a slow failure that we're not treating with the urgency that we're not treating with the urgency that we're not treating with the urgency it deserves because I guess the crash it deserves because I guess the crash it deserves because I guess the crash hasn't really happened and doesn't hasn't really happened and doesn't hasn't really happened and doesn't happen immediately.

happen immediately. happen immediately. >> Oh wow, that's a really deep question. >> Oh wow, that's a really deep question. >> Oh wow, that's a really deep question. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That's a pretty crazy metaphor, dude. >> That's a pretty crazy metaphor, dude. >> That's a pretty crazy metaphor, dude. I've never heard that before. So I've never heard that before. So I've never heard that before. So diabetics die of tiny little things that diabetics die of tiny little things that diabetics die of tiny little things that eat away at them. little bits of eat away at them. little bits of eat away at them. little bits of cellular destruction that happens over cellular destruction that happens over cellular destruction that happens over 50 years. 50 years. 50 years. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, we have this phrase in software >> So, we have this phrase in software >> So, we have this phrase in software called bit rot. And bits don't actually called bit rot. And bits don't actually called bit rot. And bits don't actually rot, but like I have this video game rot, but like I have this video game rot, but like I have this video game that I wrote called Baby Smash. And Baby that I wrote called Baby Smash. And Baby that I wrote called Baby Smash. And Baby Smash let my at the time one-year-old Smash let my at the time one-year-old Smash let my at the time one-year-old smash the keyboard and it would make smash the keyboard and it would make smash the keyboard and it would make letters and circles and it would like a letters and circles and it would like a letters and circles and it would like a fun thing to teach him how to do. Now, fun thing to teach him how to do. Now, fun thing to teach him how to do. Now, that baby is 20. He'll be 21 in that baby is 20. He'll be 21 in that baby is 20. He'll be 21 in November. November. November. Does Baby Smash still run? Does it still Does Baby Smash still run? Does it still Does Baby Smash still run? Does it still build? Can you still clone the repo and build? Can you still clone the repo and build? Can you still clone the repo and build it? build it? build it? >> There was a time when the bits rotted >> There was a time when the bits rotted >> There was a time when the bits rotted and you couldn't find the compiler, you and you couldn't find the compiler, you and you couldn't find the compiler, you couldn't find the libraries, you know, couldn't find the libraries, you know, couldn't find the libraries, you know, this website was down or that website this website was down or that website this website was down or that website was down. You see this if you visit was down. You see this if you visit was down. You see this if you visit like, you know, you've Googled for stuff like, you know, you've Googled for stuff like, you know, you've Googled for stuff and then you find a website and some of and then you find a website and some of and then you find a website and some of the pictures are broken and then some of the pictures are broken and then some of the pictures are broken and then some of the CSS is broken and the next thing you the CSS is broken and the next thing you the CSS is broken and the next thing you know the site doesn't the certificate know the site doesn't the certificate know the site doesn't the certificate dies and then it says yeah dies and then it says yeah dies and then it says yeah >> I can't visit the site at all.

>> I can't visit the site at all. >> I can't visit the site at all. >> Bit rot I think is a big challenge and >> Bit rot I think is a big challenge and >> Bit rot I think is a big challenge and maintaining software takes it's like a maintaining software takes it's like a maintaining software takes it's like a garden it's like weeds taking over a garden it's like weeds taking over a garden it's like weeds taking over a garden. garden. garden. So diabetes and health is the same thing So diabetes and health is the same thing So diabetes and health is the same thing like if you don't maintain your garden like if you don't maintain your garden like if you don't maintain your garden you will eventually be overcome with you will eventually be overcome with you will eventually be overcome with weeds. Good analogy Shri. Very nicely weeds. Good analogy Shri. Very nicely weeds. Good analogy Shri. Very nicely done sir. done sir. done sir. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yeah I want to actually >> Yeah I want to actually >> Yeah I want to actually >> I learn from you. >> I learn from you. >> I learn from you. >> I ask a followup question. Is AI one of >> I ask a followup question. Is AI one of >> I ask a followup question. Is AI one of these things that you mentioned? Do you these things that you mentioned? Do you these things that you mentioned? Do you think it's one of these things that will think it's one of these things that will think it's one of these things that will end up sneaking up behind society and end up sneaking up behind society and end up sneaking up behind society and stabbing it in the back later? stabbing it in the back later? stabbing it in the back later? >> It's not the AI, it's the slop that got >> It's not the AI, it's the slop that got >> It's not the AI, it's the slop that got made with it. Just like I've said made with it. Just like I've said made with it. Just like I've said before, like AI doesn't take your job. before, like AI doesn't take your job. before, like AI doesn't take your job. Unchecked capitalism takes your job, Unchecked capitalism takes your job, Unchecked capitalism takes your job, >> right? Like, are we doing this for human >> right? Like, are we doing this for human >> right? Like, are we doing this for human beings? And why are we doing this? Right beings? And why are we doing this? Right beings? And why are we doing this? Right now, everyone's just out to make a buck now, everyone's just out to make a buck now, everyone's just out to make a buck and everyone's just trying to make a and everyone's just trying to make a and everyone's just trying to make a buck with as least amount of work as buck with as least amount of work as buck with as least amount of work as possible because all the billionaires possible because all the billionaires possible because all the billionaires took all the money, right? So, took all the money, right? So, took all the money, right? So, everyone's like, "Well, forget you. I'll everyone's like, "Well, forget you. I'll everyone's like, "Well, forget you. I'll just vibe the next great product, you just vibe the next great product, you just vibe the next great product, you know?" And then it's a thing.

know?" And then it's a thing. know?" And then it's a thing. Everything's getting hyper optimized Everything's getting hyper optimized Everything's getting hyper optimized down to nothing. like Teimu and Sheen down to nothing. like Teimu and Sheen down to nothing. like Teimu and Sheen and halls. Like what a hall like how is and halls. Like what a hall like how is and halls. Like what a hall like how is that a thing? This is all just people that a thing? This is all just people that a thing? This is all just people trying to get theirs. So it's not AI trying to get theirs. So it's not AI trying to get theirs. So it's not AI that concerns me. It's what's going to that concerns me. It's what's going to that concerns me. It's what's going to happen in 5 or 10 years when someone has happen in 5 or 10 years when someone has happen in 5 or 10 years when someone has to go and clean up all these crappy to go and clean up all these crappy to go and clean up all these crappy websites because to Shre's point, those websites because to Shre's point, those websites because to Shre's point, those bits are going to rot bits are going to rot bits are going to rot and they'll be insecure and every and they'll be insecure and every and they'll be insecure and every security problem that's out there is security problem that's out there is security problem that's out there is going to eventually be found by another going to eventually be found by another going to eventually be found by another >> blindly relying on it. >> blindly relying on it. >> blindly relying on it. That's it. Blindly sitting in an Uber That's it. Blindly sitting in an Uber That's it. Blindly sitting in an Uber hoping everything's going to be fine. hoping everything's going to be fine. hoping everything's going to be fine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> When they need to start learning how to >> When they need to start learning how to >> When they need to start learning how to drive stick shift. drive stick shift. drive stick shift. >> I know some people like they'll be going >> I know some people like they'll be going >> I know some people like they'll be going on a road trip and they're like during on a road trip and they're like during on a road trip and they're like during this road trip I'm going to code this road trip I'm going to code this road trip I'm going to code something, dude. They'll go in the front something, dude. They'll go in the front something, dude. They'll go in the front like one of the AI agent apps and they like one of the AI agent apps and they like one of the AI agent apps and they like make this for me. And like the end like make this for me. And like the end like make this for me. And like the end of the drive they go check it on like oh of the drive they go check it on like oh of the drive they go check it on like oh my god it's done. my god it's done. my god it's done. >> Yeah. And it's not done. Prototype is >> Yeah. And it's not done. Prototype is >> Yeah. And it's not done. Prototype is done. The basics are done. The beginning done. The basics are done. The beginning done. The basics are done. The beginning done. The idea is fleshed out but it done. The idea is fleshed out but it done. The idea is fleshed out but it ain't done. ain't done. ain't done. >> That's like saying your first draft >> That's like saying your first draft >> That's like saying your first draft paper is the paper that you should ship.

paper is the paper that you should ship. paper is the paper that you should ship. Yeah. So, do you think it's like Yeah. So, do you think it's like Yeah. So, do you think it's like dangerous that all these people like an dangerous that all these people like an dangerous that all these people like an increasing percent of coders are now increasing percent of coders are now increasing percent of coders are now like vibe coders and people who have like vibe coders and people who have like vibe coders and people who have like absolutely no experience but are like absolutely no experience but are like absolutely no experience but are creating creating creating >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> products. Um, you know, here's a good >> products. Um, you know, here's a good >> products. Um, you know, here's a good anal since we're this is the analogy anal since we're this is the analogy anal since we're this is the analogy show. I watched some young people your show. I watched some young people your show. I watched some young people your age on highowered electric bicycles age on highowered electric bicycles age on highowered electric bicycles without helmets going 35 mph through my without helmets going 35 mph through my without helmets going 35 mph through my neighborhood this morning. So, let's neighborhood this morning. So, let's neighborhood this morning. So, let's think about that. They don't have a think about that. They don't have a think about that. They don't have a license. They don't have a helmet. And license. They don't have a helmet. And license. They don't have a helmet. And they're on a motorcycle that can go 40 m they're on a motorcycle that can go 40 m they're on a motorcycle that can go 40 m an hour. What could go wrong? an hour. What could go wrong? an hour. What could go wrong? That is vibe coding. That is vibe coding. That is vibe coding. >> I think also another point that I would >> I think also another point that I would >> I think also another point that I would like to add, it's only a question, just like to add, it's only a question, just like to add, it's only a question, just Cam's question of it. I think another Cam's question of it. I think another Cam's question of it. I think another dangerous thing is not I mean it's dangerous thing is not I mean it's dangerous thing is not I mean it's obviously people who are vi coding, but obviously people who are vi coding, but obviously people who are vi coding, but it's also people think it's okay to it's also people think it's okay to it's also people think it's okay to teach other people how to v code. Like a teach other people how to v code. Like a teach other people how to v code. Like a lot of these place schools and colleges lot of these place schools and colleges lot of these place schools and colleges are starting to teach their students how are starting to teach their students how are starting to teach their students how to bio code and without actually to bio code and without actually to bio code and without actually checking their code they're shipping and checking their code they're shipping and checking their code they're shipping and that can obviously not end very well.

that can obviously not end very well. that can obviously not end very well. >> Yeah, absolutely right. >> Yeah, absolutely right. >> Yeah, absolutely right. >> Relating like the companies who at least >> Relating like the companies who at least >> Relating like the companies who at least I personally find a use for because I'm I personally find a use for because I'm I personally find a use for because I'm not blindly relying on live web coding not blindly relying on live web coding not blindly relying on live web coding but but but >> for forums like Stack Overflow and >> for forums like Stack Overflow and >> for forums like Stack Overflow and stuff, what would you say the future is stuff, what would you say the future is stuff, what would you say the future is for them? And if you think it's for them? And if you think it's for them? And if you think it's non-existent like some people do, what non-existent like some people do, what non-existent like some people do, what would you say to the people who made it? would you say to the people who made it? would you say to the people who made it? I actually, dude, I actually had the VP I actually, dude, I actually had the VP I actually, dude, I actually had the VP of product for Stack Overflow on my of product for Stack Overflow on my of product for Stack Overflow on my podcast last week. podcast last week. podcast last week. >> So, she's going to be coming out. Her >> So, she's going to be coming out. Her >> So, she's going to be coming out. Her episode will come out like the next week episode will come out like the next week episode will come out like the next week or two. or two. or two. >> They're making Stack Overflow for agents >> They're making Stack Overflow for agents >> They're making Stack Overflow for agents >> where your agent, >> where your agent, >> where your agent, >> they are >> they are >> they are >> your AI bot can go and ask Stack >> your AI bot can go and ask Stack >> your AI bot can go and ask Stack Overflow questions and when it finds Overflow questions and when it finds Overflow questions and when it finds answers, it can post there. answers, it can post there. answers, it can post there. >> So, AI agent run forum. It's an AI agent >> So, AI agent run forum. It's an AI agent >> So, AI agent run forum. It's an AI agent run forum where they can actually like run forum where they can actually like run forum where they can actually like they can do like today I learned. So they can do like today I learned. So they can do like today I learned. So there's like agents going up TIL D and there's like agents going up TIL D and there's like agents going up TIL D and they can like put their memories so that they can like put their memories so that they can like put their memories so that everyone can learn them. everyone can learn them. everyone can learn them. >> That's actually really interesting. >> That's actually really interesting. >> That's actually really interesting. >> Isn't that cool? I don't know if it'll >> Isn't that cool? I don't know if it'll >> Isn't that cool? I don't know if it'll work but like that's pretty cool. work but like that's pretty cool. work but like that's pretty cool. >> I guess I guess the one good thing about >> I guess I guess the one good thing about >> I guess I guess the one good thing about at least not good thing but the one at least not good thing but the one at least not good thing but the one innovative thing about live v coding is innovative thing about live v coding is innovative thing about live v coding is that it's forcing people who don't rely that it's forcing people who don't rely that it's forcing people who don't rely on live coding to innovate with ways to on live coding to innovate with ways to on live coding to innovate with ways to stay ahead of other people who do and stay ahead of other people who do and stay ahead of other people who do and keep their products alive. Yeah, keep their products alive. Yeah, keep their products alive. Yeah, >> that's smart.

>> that's smart. >> that's smart. >> Back to what you said about the TIL. >> Back to what you said about the TIL. >> Back to what you said about the TIL. That reminds me of something I heard That reminds me of something I heard That reminds me of something I heard hypothesis that eventually the internet hypothesis that eventually the internet hypothesis that eventually the internet is just going to become AI agents is just going to become AI agents is just going to become AI agents chatting with AI agents. And that really chatting with AI agents. And that really chatting with AI agents. And that really reminded me. reminded me. reminded me. >> Yeah, that's kind of gross. >> Yeah, that's kind of gross. >> Yeah, that's kind of gross. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Give them their own internet. You know >> Give them their own internet. You know >> Give them their own internet. You know what I mean? I can probably play it on what I mean? I can probably play it on what I mean? I can probably play it on the overlay of this when we're editing, the overlay of this when we're editing, the overlay of this when we're editing, but I saw this screenshot the other day. but I saw this screenshot the other day. but I saw this screenshot the other day. My dad forwarded it to me, but it was My dad forwarded it to me, but it was My dad forwarded it to me, but it was like the company was testing something. like the company was testing something. like the company was testing something. I think it was Google or something and I think it was Google or something and I think it was Google or something and they had like a Slack channel and they they had like a Slack channel and they they had like a Slack channel and they had to put two AI agents into it, but had to put two AI agents into it, but had to put two AI agents into it, but they didn't know the other person was an they didn't know the other person was an they didn't know the other person was an AI agent. They were talking back and AI agent. They were talking back and AI agent. They were talking back and forth like they thought they were forth like they thought they were forth like they thought they were talking to another human. They each talking to another human. They each talking to another human. They each thought they each knew that they were an thought they each knew that they were an thought they each knew that they were an AI agent, but they were thought they AI agent, but they were thought they AI agent, but they were thought they were talking to another human. And it were talking to another human. And it were talking to another human. And it was so funny to see what was happening. was so funny to see what was happening. was so funny to see what was happening. Like the conversation never went Like the conversation never went Like the conversation never went anywhere. It's just dead end after anywhere. It's just dead end after anywhere. It's just dead end after >> Oh, yeah. Have you seen You know what >> Oh, yeah. Have you seen You know what >> Oh, yeah. Have you seen You know what Moltbook is, right? You heard of Moltbook is, right? You heard of Moltbook is, right? You heard of Moltbook? Moltbook? Moltbook? >> I think. Yeah, I've heard of. >> I think. Yeah, I've heard of. >> I think. Yeah, I've heard of. >> So, Molt Multi is the previous name of >> So, Molt Multi is the previous name of >> So, Molt Multi is the previous name of OpenClaw before OpenClaw became OpenClaw before OpenClaw became OpenClaw before OpenClaw became OpenClaw. OpenClaw. OpenClaw. >> And someone made a Facebook for agents >> And someone made a Facebook for agents >> And someone made a Facebook for agents and they all just like talk to and they all just like talk to and they all just like talk to themselves. And some of it is like it's themselves. And some of it is like it's themselves. And some of it is like it's like fanfiction for for bots like fanfiction for for bots like fanfiction for for bots >> like, "Yeah, my owner is really weird.

>> like, "Yeah, my owner is really weird. >> like, "Yeah, my owner is really weird. He asked me to do all this weird stuff." He asked me to do all this weird stuff." He asked me to do all this weird stuff." And they all like yap at each other. And And they all like yap at each other. And And they all like yap at each other. And we don't know if it's real or an art we don't know if it's real or an art we don't know if it's real or an art project or whatever, but it's it's a project or whatever, but it's it's a project or whatever, but it's it's a feedback loop, right? You've seen those feedback loop, right? You've seen those feedback loop, right? You've seen those Tik Toks where they have like two phones Tik Toks where they have like two phones Tik Toks where they have like two phones and then they have Chat GBT talk to the and then they have Chat GBT talk to the and then they have Chat GBT talk to the other chatbt. other chatbt. other chatbt. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That that's nothing good comes out of >> That that's nothing good comes out of >> That that's nothing good comes out of that. that. that. >> Yeah. There's teaching her the exact >> Yeah. There's teaching her the exact >> Yeah. There's teaching her the exact same thing that they already know. And same thing that they already know. And same thing that they already know. And have you I mean cuz you've personally have you I mean cuz you've personally have you I mean cuz you've personally lived through how the definition of AI lived through how the definition of AI lived through how the definition of AI has completely changed over the years. has completely changed over the years. has completely changed over the years. Would you say most people who have lived Would you say most people who have lived Would you say most people who have lived through that, maybe not personally from through that, maybe not personally from through that, maybe not personally from your experience, people you know, have your experience, people you know, have your experience, people you know, have become willing to adapt to that and have become willing to adapt to that and have become willing to adapt to that and have started supporting the vibe coding started supporting the vibe coding started supporting the vibe coding generation or would you say they've been generation or would you say they've been generation or would you say they've been trying to fight back against it? trying to fight back against it? trying to fight back against it? >> I think that for us to just say vibe >> I think that for us to just say vibe >> I think that for us to just say vibe coding sucks is too simplistic and I coding sucks is too simplistic and I coding sucks is too simplistic and I imagine this kind of slider bar from imagine this kind of slider bar from imagine this kind of slider bar from slop cannon slop cannon slop cannon vibe coding AI augmented software vibe coding AI augmented software vibe coding AI augmented software engineering. Yeah. engineering. Yeah. engineering. Yeah. >> The problem is it's fun to say vibe >> The problem is it's fun to say vibe >> The problem is it's fun to say vibe coding.

coding. coding. >> It's not fun to say AI augmented >> It's not fun to say AI augmented >> It's not fun to say AI augmented software engineering. software engineering. software engineering. >> So like like I I vibed some stuff and it >> So like like I I vibed some stuff and it >> So like like I I vibed some stuff and it was fine and then I applied AI focused was fine and then I applied AI focused was fine and then I applied AI focused software engineering lens and it became software engineering lens and it became software engineering lens and it became better. So vibe prototypes and then take better. So vibe prototypes and then take better. So vibe prototypes and then take the prototype to production by doing the prototype to production by doing the prototype to production by doing proper work proper work proper work >> to that point. Um I think >> to that point. Um I think >> to that point. Um I think because like with social media and stuff because like with social media and stuff because like with social media and stuff everything's become we get no we ended everything's become we get no we ended everything's become we get no we ended like a few seconds but with um social like a few seconds but with um social like a few seconds but with um social media and everything everything's become media and everything everything's become media and everything everything's become if it's not a trend people aren't going if it's not a trend people aren't going if it's not a trend people aren't going to do it which is why with vibe killing to do it which is why with vibe killing to do it which is why with vibe killing as it became more fun name became all as it became more fun name became all as it became more fun name became all over came all over social media people over came all over social media people over came all over social media people started like saying if they're going to started like saying if they're going to started like saying if they're going to do it I'm going to do it and I'm not do it I'm going to do it and I'm not do it I'm going to do it and I'm not going to stop till someone else stops going to stop till someone else stops going to stop till someone else stops and that's like a blind chain everyone and that's like a blind chain everyone and that's like a blind chain everyone just cop a game of telephone. just cop a game of telephone. just cop a game of telephone. >> Well but see again advice is again spend >> Well but see again advice is again spend >> Well but see again advice is again spend less time on social media. Yeah. Yeah. less time on social media. Yeah. Yeah. less time on social media. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. >> Because trends trends are group think. >> Because trends trends are group think. >> Because trends trends are group think. Think for yourself, young men. Think for yourself, young men. Think for yourself, young men. >> Think for yourself. Be kind to people. >> Think for yourself. Be kind to people. >> Think for yourself. Be kind to people. Be thoughtful. Be thoughtful. Be thoughtful. Do your own research. Learn how to Do your own research. Learn how to Do your own research. Learn how to learn. And make sure that the thing that learn. And make sure that the thing that learn. And make sure that the thing that you're making is the right thing for the you're making is the right thing for the you're making is the right thing for the right people. And if it doesn't help right people. And if it doesn't help right people. And if it doesn't help someone, then it's the wrong thing.

someone, then it's the wrong thing. someone, then it's the wrong thing. Regardless of what the trend is this Regardless of what the trend is this Regardless of what the trend is this week on Instagram. week on Instagram. week on Instagram. >> Okay. Uh, all right. Thank you very >> Okay. Uh, all right. Thank you very >> Okay. Uh, all right. Thank you very much, Scott. That was much, Scott. That was much, Scott. That was >> incredible. Great call.