Exploring Decentralized Tech with TBD's Rizel Scarlett

hi friends I'm Scott Hanselman and it's hi friends I'm Scott Hanselman and it's another episode of Hansel minutes today another episode of Hansel minutes today another episode of Hansel minutes today I'm chatting with Roselle Scarlet she's I'm chatting with Roselle Scarlet she's I'm chatting with Roselle Scarlet she's a staff developer Advocate at a company a staff developer Advocate at a company a staff developer Advocate at a company called TBD which is an incubator called TBD which is an incubator called TBD which is an incubator operating within block how are you relle operating within block how are you relle operating within block how are you relle I'm good how are you doing Scott I am I'm good how are you doing Scott I am I'm good how are you doing Scott I am very well thanks for hanging out so um very well thanks for hanging out so um very well thanks for hanging out so um we worked together when you were at we worked together when you were at we worked together when you were at GitHub and you were developer Advocate GitHub and you were developer Advocate GitHub and you were developer Advocate at GitHub and we went to conferences and at GitHub and we went to conferences and at GitHub and we went to conferences and worked on GitHub universe and did all worked on GitHub universe and did all worked on GitHub universe and did all kinds of cool stuff because I work at kinds of cool stuff because I work at kinds of cool stuff because I work at Microsoft in my day job but you went off Microsoft in my day job but you went off Microsoft in my day job but you went off and I think this is so funny the company and I think this is so funny the company and I think this is so funny the company is called TBD like to be determined yeah is called TBD like to be determined yeah is called TBD like to be determined yeah I actually I think it stands for to be I actually I think it stands for to be I actually I think it stands for to be decentralized is that what it means I decentralized is that what it means I decentralized is that what it means I think so yeah I was like when are they think so yeah I was like when are they think so yeah I was like when are they going to come up with their name this is going to come up with their name this is going to come up with their name this is crazy but no they they came up with crazy but no they they came up with crazy but no they they came up with something okay to be decentralized something okay to be decentralized something okay to be decentralized that's interesting well this term that's interesting well this term that's interesting well this term decentralized on its face as just like a decentralized on its face as just like a decentralized on its face as just like a noun like makes sense I get it like this noun like makes sense I get it like this noun like makes sense I get it like this is something is decentralized it's is something is decentralized it's is something is decentralized it's spread apart but I feel like with all spread apart but I feel like with all spread apart but I feel like with all this talk of crypto and blockchain and this talk of crypto and blockchain and this talk of crypto and blockchain and web 3 and this and that like the word web 3 and this and that like the word web 3 and this and that like the word decentralized has got a lot of baggage decentralized has got a lot of baggage decentralized has got a lot of baggage along with it yeah I think it does too I along with it yeah I think it does too I along with it yeah I think it does too I think even coming in like I was think even coming in like I was think even coming in like I was interested in joining the company interested in joining the company interested in joining the company because I kind of wanted a challenge because I kind of wanted a challenge because I kind of wanted a challenge like I wanted to learn from Angie and I like I wanted to learn from Angie and I like I wanted to learn from Angie and I wanted to code even more and delve into wanted to code even more and delve into wanted to code even more and delve into Technologies I didn't know but I was Technologies I didn't know but I was Technologies I didn't know but I was scared of that term decentralized yeah I scared of that term decentralized yeah I scared of that term decentralized yeah I guess it's a verb not a noun and then guess it's a verb not a noun and then guess it's a verb not a noun and then you refer to Angie you're talking about

you refer to Angie you're talking about you refer to Angie you're talking about Angie Jones yes who is the VP of devel Angie Jones yes who is the VP of devel Angie Jones yes who is the VP of devel at TBD and I've seen talks that Angie at TBD and I've seen talks that Angie at TBD and I've seen talks that Angie has done on distributed identity and I has done on distributed identity and I has done on distributed identity and I think people are starting to get think people are starting to get think people are starting to get confused about all the stuff that's confused about all the stuff that's confused about all the stuff that's moving there's a lot of moving parts moving there's a lot of moving parts moving there's a lot of moving parts right now right now right now yes you've got pass Keys which are yes you've got pass Keys which are yes you've got pass Keys which are having a moment right now uh literally having a moment right now uh literally having a moment right now uh literally yesterday someone at work was like why yesterday someone at work was like why yesterday someone at work was like why aren't you logging to GitHub with past aren't you logging to GitHub with past aren't you logging to GitHub with past keys and I was like I just got the keys and I was like I just got the keys and I was like I just got the little the little freaking phonet thing little the little freaking phonet thing little the little freaking phonet thing what is that called the little is it a u what is that called the little is it a u what is that called the little is it a u key the I got keys I thought I was key the I got keys I thought I was key the I got keys I thought I was supposed to use a UB key and then aie is supposed to use a UB key and then aie is supposed to use a UB key and then aie is shutting down their desktop app and then shutting down their desktop app and then shutting down their desktop app and then someone said pass Keys yeah I didn't someone said pass Keys yeah I didn't someone said pass Keys yeah I didn't know that you have to use aie on the know that you have to use aie on the know that you have to use aie on the phone you can't use the desktop app phone you can't use the desktop app phone you can't use the desktop app anymore that's happening next month so anymore that's happening next month so anymore that's happening next month so then there's the federsee then there's the federsee then there's the federsee yes which so there's all is it is there yes which so there's all is it is there yes which so there's all is it is there a competition happening or is it a competition happening or is it a competition happening or is it cooption around the space of cooption around the space of cooption around the space of decentralized identity as we all try to decentralized identity as we all try to decentralized identity as we all try to decide how we're going to log into stuff decide how we're going to log into stuff decide how we're going to log into stuff it does seem like there's a lot of it does seem like there's a lot of it does seem like there's a lot of players in the game and as I've joined players in the game and as I've joined players in the game and as I've joined this company I learned there's even more this company I learned there's even more this company I learned there's even more players I learned Microsoft is part of players I learned Microsoft is part of players I learned Microsoft is part of this work day like so many different off this work day like so many different off this work day like so many different off zero and I'm like wow but I think what's zero and I'm like wow but I think what's zero and I'm like wow but I think what's really happening is a lot of like like really happening is a lot of like like really happening is a lot of like like individuals technologist organizations individuals technologist organizations individuals technologist organizations are like yo the way that the internet are like yo the way that the internet are like yo the way that the internet was created it doesn't have an identity was created it doesn't have an identity was created it doesn't have an identity layer as Angie would say like there's no layer as Angie would say like there's no layer as Angie would say like there's no good solution one example I usually like good solution one example I usually like good solution one example I usually like to give is like I have black girl bites

to give is like I have black girl bites to give is like I have black girl bites on Twitter black girl bites on GitHub on Twitter black girl bites on GitHub on Twitter black girl bites on GitHub and I have all these different usernames and I have all these different usernames and I have all these different usernames but they're not connected to each other but they're not connected to each other but they're not connected to each other in any way I'm not able to like move my in any way I'm not able to like move my in any way I'm not able to like move my data with me they're only connected data with me they're only connected data with me they're only connected because I'm the person that created it because I'm the person that created it because I'm the person that created it but no one can be like oh black girl but no one can be like oh black girl but no one can be like oh black girl bites on Twitter I know that she did bites on Twitter I know that she did bites on Twitter I know that she did these code commits on GitHub so people these code commits on GitHub so people these code commits on GitHub so people are trying to reduce like the are trying to reduce like the are trying to reduce like the fragmentation of data and identities fragmentation of data and identities fragmentation of data and identities across the web and I'm hoping personally across the web and I'm hoping personally across the web and I'm hoping personally that we could all work together rather that we could all work together rather that we could all work together rather than working separately like because it than working separately like because it than working separately like because it does seem like wasted efforts if we're does seem like wasted efforts if we're does seem like wasted efforts if we're all separate yeah because I have you all separate yeah because I have you all separate yeah because I have you know hansel. comom the website like know hansel. comom the website like know hansel. comom the website like that's kind of my if I've got my finger that's kind of my if I've got my finger that's kind of my if I've got my finger on one chest piece when I try to make a on one chest piece when I try to make a on one chest piece when I try to make a move it's hans.com like that's where move it's hans.com like that's where move it's hans.com like that's where everything starts from because I've had everything starts from because I've had everything starts from because I've had that for like 25 years but then like s that for like 25 years but then like s that for like 25 years but then like s Hanselman is who I am on Twitter and Hanselman is who I am on Twitter and Hanselman is who I am on Twitter and Mastadon etc etc etc so then I'm always Mastadon etc etc etc so then I'm always Mastadon etc etc etc so then I'm always rushing to grab my username on like any rushing to grab my username on like any rushing to grab my username on like any new social media because because I feel new social media because because I feel new social media because because I feel like it's mine but I'm sure there's like like it's mine but I'm sure there's like like it's mine but I'm sure there's like a Sharon Hanselman or a Susan Hanselman a Sharon Hanselman or a Susan Hanselman a Sharon Hanselman or a Susan Hanselman that I don't know who is getting in that I don't know who is getting in that I don't know who is getting in there and I always hate finding that s there and I always hate finding that s there and I always hate finding that s Hanselman is taken when I already have a Hanselman is taken when I already have a Hanselman is taken when I already have a perfectly good domain but then if I tell perfectly good domain but then if I tell perfectly good domain but then if I tell my non-technical parent oh well just my non-technical parent oh well just my non-technical parent oh well just register a domain and everything like register a domain and everything like register a domain and everything like that's not really something that you can that's not really something that you can that's not really something that you can do yeah exactly that's where the thing do yeah exactly that's where the thing do yeah exactly that's where the thing that Angie often talks about and her that Angie often talks about and her that Angie often talks about and her talks decentralized identifiers would talks decentralized identifiers would talks decentralized identifiers would come in because you create that come in because you create that come in because you create that decentralized identifier and that moves decentralized identifier and that moves decentralized identifier and that moves with you across the web and you can add

with you across the web and you can add with you across the web and you can add a Alias up on it and in the case of your a Alias up on it and in the case of your a Alias up on it and in the case of your parents you might be like why would my parents you might be like why would my parents you might be like why would my parents want to do that or it seems a parents want to do that or it seems a parents want to do that or it seems a little scary or something they won't little scary or something they won't little scary or something they won't even know that's happening under the even know that's happening under the even know that's happening under the hood I don't know if you've tried out hood I don't know if you've tried out hood I don't know if you've tried out blue sky but they use decentralized blue sky but they use decentralized blue sky but they use decentralized identifiers and every was going crazy identifiers and every was going crazy identifiers and every was going crazy over like getting to be verified or over like getting to be verified or over like getting to be verified or change it to their domain and under the change it to their domain and under the change it to their domain and under the hood it's really using decentralized hood it's really using decentralized hood it's really using decentralized identifiers yeah that's interesting so identifiers yeah that's interesting so identifiers yeah that's interesting so on Blue Sky this is a great Point blue on Blue Sky this is a great Point blue on Blue Sky this is a great Point blue sky is a decentralized identifier based sky is a decentralized identifier based sky is a decentralized identifier based Twitter yeah uh it's a be I think it's Twitter yeah uh it's a be I think it's Twitter yeah uh it's a be I think it's like what is it bsky doapp and I'm at like what is it bsky doapp and I'm at like what is it bsky doapp and I'm at scott.and and.com and that involved scott.and and.com and that involved scott.and and.com and that involved making some changes to my web server so making some changes to my web server so making some changes to my web server so that blue sky would call back to me that blue sky would call back to me that blue sky would call back to me check on some stuff and that would check on some stuff and that would check on some stuff and that would confirm that I'm me that's different confirm that I'm me that's different confirm that I'm me that's different than what Mastadon does which is called than what Mastadon does which is called than what Mastadon does which is called webfinger where it has a well-known webfinger where it has a well-known webfinger where it has a well-known endpoint and it says hey do you have endpoint and it says hey do you have endpoint and it says hey do you have this well-known endpoint it's kind of this well-known endpoint it's kind of this well-known endpoint it's kind of like if you if you're familiar with like if you if you're familiar with like if you if you're familiar with robots. text right it's like just have a robots. text right it's like just have a robots. text right it's like just have a file in this place and people can go file in this place and people can go file in this place and people can go there and if it's there we'll do stuff there and if it's there we'll do stuff there and if it's there we'll do stuff and if it's not we won't do stuff that and if it's not we won't do stuff that and if it's not we won't do stuff that seems to be a real common theme but then seems to be a real common theme but then seems to be a real common theme but then back to non-technical parent they have back to non-technical parent they have back to non-technical parent they have to have a domain they have to have a web to have a domain they have to have a web to have a domain they have to have a web server they have to make a text file and server they have to make a text file and server they have to make a text file and upload the text file like it starts upload the text file like it starts upload the text file like it starts getting complicated even with the blue getting complicated even with the blue getting complicated even with the blue sky example yeah that's true and I think sky example yeah that's true and I think sky example yeah that's true and I think the way some companies including TBD are the way some companies including TBD are the way some companies including TBD are hoping to do it um not not hoping to do hoping to do it um not not hoping to do hoping to do it um not not hoping to do it but they're working on developing it but they're working on developing it but they're working on developing this right so I'm talking about this

this right so I'm talking about this this right so I'm talking about this more in more in more in theory but you would essentially store theory but you would essentially store theory but you would essentially store your your identity in like your phone's your your identity in like your phone's your your identity in like your phone's wallet similar to how you would have wallet similar to how you would have wallet similar to how you would have like a debit card in your phone's wallet like a debit card in your phone's wallet like a debit card in your phone's wallet or pay Google wallet and then you would or pay Google wallet and then you would or pay Google wallet and then you would just like scan a QR code or something just like scan a QR code or something just like scan a QR code or something like that and move across the web rather like that and move across the web rather like that and move across the web rather than being like I have to set up this than being like I have to set up this than being like I have to set up this domain or I have to do this you just domain or I have to do this you just domain or I have to do this you just have this identity that's moving with have this identity that's moving with have this identity that's moving with you okay so then this gets into the idea you okay so then this gets into the idea you okay so then this gets into the idea of verifiable credentials and verifiable of verifiable credentials and verifiable of verifiable credentials and verifiable credentials to me feel like one of the credentials to me feel like one of the credentials to me feel like one of the factors when we talk about like two factors when we talk about like two factors when we talk about like two Factor o or multiactor o because like Factor o or multiactor o because like Factor o or multiactor o because like this I'm holding my phone up this is a this I'm holding my phone up this is a this I'm holding my phone up this is a thing I have yeah that's a factor I have thing I have yeah that's a factor I have thing I have yeah that's a factor I have it in my hand I could lose it it could it in my hand I could lose it it could it in my hand I could lose it it could be stolen it could break there's like be stolen it could break there's like be stolen it could break there's like stuff that can go wrong with it and then stuff that can go wrong with it and then stuff that can go wrong with it and then there's stuff that I know yeah yeah there's stuff that I know yeah yeah there's stuff that I know yeah yeah there's a buddy of mine who dm'd me there's a buddy of mine who dm'd me there's a buddy of mine who dm'd me literally 20 minutes before we got on literally 20 minutes before we got on literally 20 minutes before we got on this call I won't say their name but you this call I won't say their name but you this call I won't say their name but you know them and they said that they were know them and they said that they were know them and they said that they were unfortunately laid off but their work unfortunately laid off but their work unfortunately laid off but their work GitHub account is enabled to their work GitHub account is enabled to their work GitHub account is enabled to their work email and their backup for their email and their backup for their email and their backup for their authenticator app is on a their work authenticator app is on a their work authenticator app is on a their work email and they don't have access to any email and they don't have access to any email and they don't have access to any recovery codes because we always have recovery codes because we always have recovery codes because we always have that piece of paper that they say print that piece of paper that they say print that piece of paper that they say print these recovery codes and we don't know these recovery codes and we don't know these recovery codes and we don't know where they are y so now here's a person where they are y so now here's a person where they are y so now here's a person that I know is them they're verifiably that I know is them they're verifiably that I know is them they're verifiably them I can I could call them and they them I can I could call them and they them I can I could call them and they have no way to get to their GitHub have no way to get to their GitHub have no way to get to their GitHub account is that a solvable problem yeah

account is that a solvable problem yeah account is that a solvable problem yeah I think so that was an amazing and I think so that was an amazing and I think so that was an amazing and perfect example actually and I've perfect example actually and I've perfect example actually and I've experienced that too where like once I experienced that too where like once I experienced that too where like once I left GitHub I was like I thought I took left GitHub I was like I thought I took left GitHub I was like I thought I took everything with me but then I realized I everything with me but then I realized I everything with me but then I realized I didn't but yeah that would be a perfect didn't but yeah that would be a perfect didn't but yeah that would be a perfect example of like moving across the web example of like moving across the web example of like moving across the web and being like o I need access to this and being like o I need access to this and being like o I need access to this and I'm just going to use my verifiable and I'm just going to use my verifiable and I'm just going to use my verifiable credential and my decentralized identity credential and my decentralized identity credential and my decentralized identity which is like paired with the verifiable which is like paired with the verifiable which is like paired with the verifiable credential to blog in and if you want to credential to blog in and if you want to credential to blog in and if you want to talk more on because there's a lot of talk more on because there's a lot of talk more on because there's a lot of companies using verifiable credentials companies using verifiable credentials companies using verifiable credentials and decentralized identity for various and decentralized identity for various and decentralized identity for various use cases but what TBD really wants to use cases but what TBD really wants to use cases but what TBD really wants to do is they want to enable the exchange do is they want to enable the exchange do is they want to enable the exchange of like Global Payments right and they of like Global Payments right and they of like Global Payments right and they recognize so backing up a little bit recognize so backing up a little bit recognize so backing up a little bit right block they own a couple of right block they own a couple of right block they own a couple of companies including cash app and square companies including cash app and square companies including cash app and square and they feel like extremely yeah they and they feel like extremely yeah they and they feel like extremely yeah they own title they own a lot and they feel own title they own a lot and they feel own title they own a lot and they feel extremely proud of the fact that they're extremely proud of the fact that they're extremely proud of the fact that they're like yo we enabled money to easily be like yo we enabled money to easily be like yo we enabled money to easily be exchanged like you can just Tap a button exchanged like you can just Tap a button exchanged like you can just Tap a button and you're like hey that's cool I did and you're like hey that's cool I did and you're like hey that's cool I did that and even for square I think it's that and even for square I think it's that and even for square I think it's like a little I don't know what it's like a little I don't know what it's like a little I don't know what it's called a card reader you add it on to called a card reader you add it on to called a card reader you add it on to your phone and like Mom and Pop shots your phone and like Mom and Pop shots your phone and like Mom and Pop shots can essentially earn money through that can essentially earn money through that can essentially earn money through that but they they realized like it's not but they they realized like it's not but they they realized like it's not easy if you are trying to send money to easy if you are trying to send money to easy if you are trying to send money to a different country and so they want to a different country and so they want to a different country and so they want to bring that same usability and ease of bring that same usability and ease of bring that same usability and ease of experience but they recognize that experience but they recognize that experience but they recognize that because there's all these different because there's all these different because there's all these different Financial systems they will have to rely Financial systems they will have to rely Financial systems they will have to rely on like decentralization to do it yeah on like decentralization to do it yeah on like decentralization to do it yeah that when you said like sending money

that when you said like sending money that when you said like sending money overseas and that kind of thing like overseas and that kind of thing like overseas and that kind of thing like right now we're bringing uh my wife's right now we're bringing uh my wife's right now we're bringing uh my wife's family over from Zimbabwe for her 50th family over from Zimbabwe for her 50th family over from Zimbabwe for her 50th birthday and we're going to pay for like birthday and we're going to pay for like birthday and we're going to pay for like one of the tickets but not the other one one of the tickets but not the other one one of the tickets but not the other one of the tickets and like the simple fact of the tickets and like the simple fact of the tickets and like the simple fact of like we're splitting the flights and of like we're splitting the flights and of like we're splitting the flights and I'll pay for half the like how are they I'll pay for half the like how are they I'll pay for half the like how are they supposed to get money to us now people supposed to get money to us now people supposed to get money to us now people who are listening might just say oh just who are listening might just say oh just who are listening might just say oh just send an international wire that's not a send an international wire that's not a send an international wire that's not a thing that everyone has access to like thing that everyone has access to like thing that everyone has access to like there's people who don't have that kind there's people who don't have that kind there's people who don't have that kind of money in their bank they have their of money in their bank they have their of money in their bank they have their money in their phone if they maybe they money in their phone if they maybe they money in their phone if they maybe they have imp PESA or they have they have have imp PESA or they have they have have imp PESA or they have they have minutes like some of our family members minutes like some of our family members minutes like some of our family members they pay for stuff with cell phone they pay for stuff with cell phone they pay for stuff with cell phone minutes think about minutes as a minutes think about minutes as a minutes think about minutes as a currency yeah you know oh you don't have currency yeah you know oh you don't have currency yeah you know oh you don't have the cash just pay me minutes or whatever the cash just pay me minutes or whatever the cash just pay me minutes or whatever like there's so many ways and the idea like there's so many ways and the idea like there's so many ways and the idea like oh just send an international wire like oh just send an international wire like oh just send an international wire if you have a banker maybe right that if you have a banker maybe right that if you have a banker maybe right that you could do that and then spend you could do that and then spend you could do that and then spend $30 right to send the money so gosh how $30 right to send the money so gosh how $30 right to send the money so gosh how do you send money overseas I use like do you send money overseas I use like do you send money overseas I use like Zoom with an X yeah I use Western Union Zoom with an X yeah I use Western Union Zoom with an X yeah I use Western Union yeah I was just gonna say I use Western yeah I was just gonna say I use Western yeah I was just gonna say I use Western Union any like Check Cashers place Union any like Check Cashers place Union any like Check Cashers place because I was born in Antiga my parents because I was born in Antiga my parents because I was born in Antiga my parents are born in Guyana South America maybe are born in Guyana South America maybe are born in Guyana South America maybe my family uses cell phones and stuff I my family uses cell phones and stuff I my family uses cell phones and stuff I don't know but they seem very like don't know but they seem very like don't know but they seem very like traditional and it's it's a long process traditional and it's it's a long process traditional and it's it's a long process people don't realize like I got to go to people don't realize like I got to go to people don't realize like I got to go to Western Union and then they got to go to Western Union and then they got to go to Western Union and then they got to go to Western Union in their country and pick Western Union in their country and pick Western Union in their country and pick it up so that creates like delayed it up so that creates like delayed it up so that creates like delayed access to funds and then sometimes some access to funds and then sometimes some access to funds and then sometimes some ways of sending money globally has high ways of sending money globally has high ways of sending money globally has high transaction fees so at TBD we want to be

transaction fees so at TBD we want to be transaction fees so at TBD we want to be able to lower all that you know and you able to lower all that you know and you able to lower all that you know and you bring something really interesting up bring something really interesting up bring something really interesting up that we should dig into like they go that we should dig into like they go that we should dig into like they go physically to the Western Union like physically to the Western Union like physically to the Western Union like office with some thing they have to show office with some thing they have to show office with some thing they have to show an ID a national ID and that's this an ID a national ID and that's this an ID a national ID and that's this credential they physically have to have credential they physically have to have credential they physically have to have it present it to them and the person's it present it to them and the person's it present it to them and the person's like okay this is sus this is not sus or like okay this is sus this is not sus or like okay this is sus this is not sus or whatever right yes yeah and are they whatever right yes yeah and are they whatever right yes yeah and are they phone people or do they they don't they phone people or do they they don't they phone people or do they they don't they probably don't have PCS like I don't probably don't have PCS like I don't probably don't have PCS like I don't know about my family are mostly like know about my family are mostly like know about my family are mostly like Android phones they would be nice if Android phones they would be nice if Android phones they would be nice if they could have that credential on their they could have that credential on their they could have that credential on their phone yeah yeah I mean I'm I don't know phone yeah yeah I mean I'm I don't know phone yeah yeah I mean I'm I don't know how what they're using as devices but how what they're using as devices but how what they're using as devices but yeah it would be awesome if they can yeah it would be awesome if they can yeah it would be awesome if they can just show it and be like this is for just show it and be like this is for just show it and be like this is for real who I am and another benefit of real who I am and another benefit of real who I am and another benefit of verifiable credentials is like it only verifiable credentials is like it only verifiable credentials is like it only reveals the important amount of reveals the important amount of reveals the important amount of information right like I mean this is a information right like I mean this is a information right like I mean this is a different example than like Global different example than like Global different example than like Global Payments but in the blog post I recently Payments but in the blog post I recently Payments but in the blog post I recently wrote I talk about like wanting to show wrote I talk about like wanting to show wrote I talk about like wanting to show your proof of age to be able to drink your proof of age to be able to drink your proof of age to be able to drink you don't need to show your address and you don't need to show your address and you don't need to show your address and your first name and last name and all your first name and last name and all your first name and last name and all that you have something called selective that you have something called selective that you have something called selective disclosure that just says yes this disclosure that just says yes this disclosure that just says yes this person can drink so in the case of like person can drink so in the case of like person can drink so in the case of like Western Union or however you're sending Western Union or however you're sending Western Union or however you're sending money it'll just be like hey this person money it'll just be like hey this person money it'll just be like hey this person can receive this money this is actually can receive this money this is actually can receive this money this is actually this person only with the necessary this person only with the necessary this person only with the necessary information that is a really great Point information that is a really great Point information that is a really great Point like the idea is like there's this name like the idea is like there's this name like the idea is like there's this name value pair pile of information that is value pair pile of information that is value pair pile of information that is in the verifiable credential right yeah in the verifiable credential right yeah in the verifiable credential right yeah including my eye color and my weight my

including my eye color and my weight my including my eye color and my weight my weight has nothing to do with this money weight has nothing to do with this money weight has nothing to do with this money like you do not need to know my weight like you do not need to know my weight like you do not need to know my weight in my height you need to know that I'm in my height you need to know that I'm in my height you need to know that I'm that guy in the picture so then you're that guy in the picture so then you're that guy in the picture so then you're saying that they would request the saying that they would request the saying that they would request the information that they want to know just information that they want to know just information that they want to know just like my phone requests for my location like my phone requests for my location like my phone requests for my location or my access to my camera it's going to or my access to my camera it's going to or my access to my camera it's going to proactively say Roselle's website wants proactively say Roselle's website wants proactively say Roselle's website wants to know these four things of the 20 that to know these four things of the 20 that to know these four things of the 20 that we know about you she only wants to know we know about you she only wants to know we know about you she only wants to know four and do you know them forever do you four and do you know them forever do you four and do you know them forever do you store them or do you just know them for store them or do you just know them for store them or do you just know them for the moment that you make that decision the moment that you make that decision the moment that you make that decision that is a good question and I think it that is a good question and I think it that is a good question and I think it is I think it's hm think it would be is I think it's hm think it would be is I think it's hm think it would be privacy policy based wouldn't it like privacy policy based wouldn't it like privacy policy based wouldn't it like you could take it it if you were being you could take it it if you were being you could take it it if you were being like if you were not following the rules like if you were not following the rules like if you were not following the rules but I as a user of a verifiable but I as a user of a verifiable but I as a user of a verifiable credential I would really rather that credential I would really rather that credential I would really rather that you just like make your decision and you just like make your decision and you just like make your decision and then throw it away yeah it depends on then throw it away yeah it depends on then throw it away yeah it depends on the wallet for who is doing the subject the wallet for who is doing the subject the wallet for who is doing the subject and then the person who was like and then the person who was like and then the person who was like verifying but I don't think they're verifying but I don't think they're verifying but I don't think they're supposed to like keep it and another supposed to like keep it and another supposed to like keep it and another thing I wanted to bring up is This thing I wanted to bring up is This thing I wanted to bring up is This Global exchange tool we're calling it Global exchange tool we're calling it Global exchange tool we're calling it tbex tbex tbex because it's currency agnostic you can because it's currency agnostic you can because it's currency agnostic you can really just trade anything it doesn't really just trade anything it doesn't really just trade anything it doesn't have to be necessarily you're like have to be necessarily you're like have to be necessarily you're like trading money like maybe you're trading trading money like maybe you're trading trading money like maybe you're trading sneakers for this bad example that just sneakers for this bad example that just sneakers for this bad example that just popped in my head sneakers for a car popped in my head sneakers for a car popped in my head sneakers for a car something else where you're just like something else where you're just like something else where you're just like making an exchange but the verifiable making an exchange but the verifiable making an exchange but the verifiable credential also is supposed to say like credential also is supposed to say like credential also is supposed to say like I trust that I can make this exchange I trust that I can make this exchange I trust that I can make this exchange with this financial institution or

with this financial institution or with this financial institution or whoever I'm doing the exchange with yeah whoever I'm doing the exchange with yeah whoever I'm doing the exchange with yeah so then I got to go say it though so then I got to go say it though so then I got to go say it though because I'm not a fan of crypto and I because I'm not a fan of crypto and I because I'm not a fan of crypto and I feel like you know web 3 God bless him feel like you know web 3 God bless him feel like you know web 3 God bless him it was not is not a thing I'm super it was not is not a thing I'm super it was not is not a thing I'm super jazzed about like I'm not a supporter jazzed about like I'm not a supporter jazzed about like I'm not a supporter it's too easily stolen it's too easily it's too easily stolen it's too easily it's too easily stolen it's too easily taken from people and it's also too taken from people and it's also too taken from people and it's also too easily um people who are saying oh I easily um people who are saying oh I easily um people who are saying oh I care about the unbanked didn't seem to care about the unbanked didn't seem to care about the unbanked didn't seem to care about them before crypto existed so care about them before crypto existed so care about them before crypto existed so let me ask you like is there crypto is let me ask you like is there crypto is let me ask you like is there crypto is there secret crypto in this is there there secret crypto in this is there there secret crypto in this is there blockchain in this is this another blockchain in this is this another blockchain in this is this another crypto thing I don't want to be involved crypto thing I don't want to be involved crypto thing I don't want to be involved in no this is not a crypto thing if in no this is not a crypto thing if in no this is not a crypto thing if someone tried to talk to me about crypto someone tried to talk to me about crypto someone tried to talk to me about crypto I would have zero knowledge there's no I would have zero knowledge there's no I would have zero knowledge there's no blockchain like zero when I joined we blockchain like zero when I joined we blockchain like zero when I joined we did use there there's different types of did use there there's different types of did use there there's different types of decentralized identifiers right and we decentralized identifiers right and we decentralized identifiers right and we used a decentralized identifier method used a decentralized identifier method used a decentralized identifier method from Microsoft which was anchored to the from Microsoft which was anchored to the from Microsoft which was anchored to the blockchain and that was the only thing blockchain and that was the only thing blockchain and that was the only thing we had that had any relation to we had that had any relation to we had that had any relation to blockchain or crypto but now we've blockchain or crypto but now we've blockchain or crypto but now we've created our own did method called did D created our own did method called did D created our own did method called did D HT Angie likes to call it did that and HT Angie likes to call it did that and HT Angie likes to call it did that and that's anchored onto bit torrent so at that's anchored onto bit torrent so at that's anchored onto bit torrent so at this point there's like no nothing with this point there's like no nothing with this point there's like no nothing with crypto we don't have a coin there's crypto we don't have a coin there's crypto we don't have a coin there's nothing with blockchain okay so there's nothing with blockchain okay so there's nothing with blockchain okay so there's a lot of acronyms here let's take a a lot of acronyms here let's take a a lot of acronyms here let's take a second and let's tear them apart so second and let's tear them apart so second and let's tear them apart so first we've got dids decentralized first we've got dids decentralized first we've got dids decentralized identifiers this was a w3c identifiers this was a w3c identifiers this was a w3c recommendation and w3c the worldwide Web recommendation and w3c the worldwide Web recommendation and w3c the worldwide Web Consortium they're like people who like Consortium they're like people who like Consortium they're like people who like decide that's a thing like that's HTTP

decide that's a thing like that's HTTP decide that's a thing like that's HTTP that's a that's a thing so there's a that's a that's a thing so there's a that's a that's a thing so there's a recomend recomend recomend for decentralized identifier to identify for decentralized identifier to identify for decentralized identifier to identify them as being a thing then there's them as being a thing then there's them as being a thing then there's tbex tbex tbex deex and then there's did- deex and then there's did- deex and then there's did- DHT which is what you were talking about DHT which is what you were talking about DHT which is what you were talking about yeah the method that is in there so it's yeah the method that is in there so it's yeah the method that is in there so it's did decentralized identifier that uses a did decentralized identifier that uses a did decentralized identifier that uses a distributed hashtable so that method is distributed hashtable so that method is distributed hashtable so that method is just talking about like how this this just talking about like how this this just talking about like how this this decentralized identifier was made and decentralized identifier was made and decentralized identifier was made and how it functions right and I'm looking how it functions right and I'm looking how it functions right and I'm looking at the GitHub right now at the TBD at the GitHub right now at the TBD at the GitHub right now at the TBD GitHub GitHub GitHub and it says decentralization is a and it says decentralization is a and it says decentralization is a spectrum the did DHT service enables you spectrum the did DHT service enables you spectrum the did DHT service enables you to run your own node and participate in to run your own node and participate in to run your own node and participate in a permission less blockchain less a permission less blockchain less a permission less blockchain less Network so it's explicitly calling out Network so it's explicitly calling out Network so it's explicitly calling out that this is something else yes okay and that this is something else yes okay and that this is something else yes okay and it says that the DHT the distributed it says that the DHT the distributed it says that the DHT the distributed hash table and I think we're are we sure hash table and I think we're are we sure hash table and I think we're are we sure that that's what it stands for yes 100% that that's what it stands for yes 100% that that's what it stands for yes 100% so it says that DHD is a distributed so it says that DHD is a distributed so it says that DHD is a distributed hash table that stores the documents so hash table that stores the documents so hash table that stores the documents so when I think of distributed hasht I when I think of distributed hasht I when I think of distributed hasht I think I've reddis right it's just like think I've reddis right it's just like think I've reddis right it's just like an end point it's a big name value pair an end point it's a big name value pair an end point it's a big name value pair I'll give you a key you give me a value I'll give you a key you give me a value I'll give you a key you give me a value which makes sense because you said I'm which makes sense because you said I'm which makes sense because you said I'm going to show my identity if I want a going to show my identity if I want a going to show my identity if I want a drink or something or if there's like a drink or something or if there's like a drink or something or if there's like a maybe there's an age limit for tacos and maybe there's an age limit for tacos and maybe there's an age limit for tacos and I'm like hey I want some tacos and I'm like hey I want some tacos and I'm like hey I want some tacos and they're like all right we need to know they're like all right we need to know they're like all right we need to know these three things about you in order to these three things about you in order to these three things about you in order to get your tacos give me the keys I will get your tacos give me the keys I will get your tacos give me the keys I will give you the values and the point that give you the values and the point that give you the values and the point that you were making earlier is that it has you were making earlier is that it has you were making earlier is that it has to be verifiable yeah who decides am I

to be verifiable yeah who decides am I to be verifiable yeah who decides am I verifying myself or is there verifying myself or is there verifying myself or is there organization like my bank or LinkedIn or organization like my bank or LinkedIn or organization like my bank or LinkedIn or the government that's going to decide the government that's going to decide the government that's going to decide I'm Legit right so it wouldn't be TBD I'm Legit right so it wouldn't be TBD I'm Legit right so it wouldn't be TBD that's doing that cuz what we're just that's doing that cuz what we're just that's doing that cuz what we're just doing is like providing the SDK and the doing is like providing the SDK and the doing is like providing the SDK and the programming framework but it will be programming framework but it will be programming framework but it will be whoever is the issuer so in like a whoever is the issuer so in like a whoever is the issuer so in like a verifiable credential like exchange verifiable credential like exchange verifiable credential like exchange there are three different roles there's there are three different roles there's there are three different roles there's the issue or the person who gave the um the issue or the person who gave the um the issue or the person who gave the um verifiable credential the subject the verifiable credential the subject the verifiable credential the subject the person who receives it and then the person who receives it and then the person who receives it and then the verifier who is like going to double verifier who is like going to double verifier who is like going to double check so in example of I'll do the check so in example of I'll do the check so in example of I'll do the alcohol example again right maybe the alcohol example again right maybe the alcohol example again right maybe the Department of Motor Vehicles or the like Department of Motor Vehicles or the like Department of Motor Vehicles or the like a passport registry or something like a passport registry or something like a passport registry or something like that they know your age for sure so they that they know your age for sure so they that they know your age for sure so they could issue you a credential saying like could issue you a credential saying like could issue you a credential saying like hey Scott he is legally of age to drink hey Scott he is legally of age to drink hey Scott he is legally of age to drink and then you get it you store it in your and then you get it you store it in your and then you get it you store it in your your phone with a QR code or a link or your phone with a QR code or a link or your phone with a QR code or a link or whatever and then you go to an alcohol whatever and then you go to an alcohol whatever and then you go to an alcohol vendor or a bar or a restaurant and vendor or a bar or a restaurant and vendor or a bar or a restaurant and they're like hey are you actually old they're like hey are you actually old they're like hey are you actually old enough to drink and you just tap your enough to drink and you just tap your enough to drink and you just tap your phone and you get that like check mark phone and you get that like check mark phone and you get that like check mark and they say okay we'll give it to you and they say okay we'll give it to you and they say okay we'll give it to you so it would be somebody who is like so it would be somebody who is like so it would be somebody who is like trusted by that verifier to issue it to trusted by that verifier to issue it to trusted by that verifier to issue it to you people always ask me I'm always you people always ask me I'm always you people always ask me I'm always getting carded constantly you do look getting carded constantly you do look getting carded constantly you do look very young my baby face so okay so the very young my baby face so okay so the very young my baby face so okay so the issuer is the organization that makes issuer is the organization that makes issuer is the organization that makes the credential like some trusted Org the the credential like some trusted Org the the credential like some trusted Org the subject I'm the subject yeah the subject I'm the subject yeah the subject I'm the subject yeah the verifier is the person that thinks I'm verifier is the person that thinks I'm verifier is the person that thinks I'm sus and then maybe if I was like uh my

sus and then maybe if I was like uh my sus and then maybe if I was like uh my wife could be like a holder that's a wife could be like a holder that's a wife could be like a holder that's a fourth role yes where I'm usually both fourth role yes where I'm usually both fourth role yes where I'm usually both the subject and the holder of the the subject and the holder of the the subject and the holder of the credential but I could maybe send my credential but I could maybe send my credential but I could maybe send my wife to buy stuff for me and then wife to buy stuff for me and then wife to buy stuff for me and then present my credential on my behalf or my present my credential on my behalf or my present my credential on my behalf or my lawyer or I could you know whatever lawyer or I could you know whatever lawyer or I could you know whatever something like that yes exactly something like that yes exactly something like that yes exactly interesting okay and then it sounds like interesting okay and then it sounds like interesting okay and then it sounds like we always hear the words we always hear the words we always hear the words cryptographically signed it's cryptographically signed it's cryptographically signed it's cryptographically significant this is cryptographically significant this is cryptographically significant this is probably using private keys and public probably using private keys and public probably using private keys and public keys and all the stuff that already keys and all the stuff that already keys and all the stuff that already works that are already standards yes in works that are already standards yes in works that are already standards yes in the space yeah yeah when people say that the space yeah yeah when people say that the space yeah yeah when people say that I I used to get really overwhelmed like I I used to get really overwhelmed like I I used to get really overwhelmed like what does cryptographically sign mean what does cryptographically sign mean what does cryptographically sign mean but yeah just like you said it's just but yeah just like you said it's just but yeah just like you said it's just using a public key and a private key using a public key and a private key using a public key and a private key just to prove that this was actually just to prove that this was actually just to prove that this was actually signed by the person that created it you signed by the person that created it you signed by the person that created it you know it seems like when early things know it seems like when early things know it seems like when early things like this start getting built and being like this start getting built and being like this start getting built and being presented it's overwhelming and it's presented it's overwhelming and it's presented it's overwhelming and it's like oh I'm going to have to write a like oh I'm going to have to write a like oh I'm going to have to write a bunch of stuff I'm going to have to like bunch of stuff I'm going to have to like bunch of stuff I'm going to have to like implement this myself but ultimately implement this myself but ultimately implement this myself but ultimately then you have something like Apple pay then you have something like Apple pay then you have something like Apple pay which now is called contactless payments which now is called contactless payments which now is called contactless payments cuz I don't even know when I'm tapping cuz I don't even know when I'm tapping cuz I don't even know when I'm tapping if it's using Apple pay or if it's using if it's using Apple pay or if it's using if it's using Apple pay or if it's using some standard I just know it's awesome some standard I just know it's awesome some standard I just know it's awesome yeah right my wife and I were in yeah right my wife and I were in yeah right my wife and I were in Australia a couple weeks ago and we Australia a couple weeks ago and we Australia a couple weeks ago and we turned on Express transit on our iPhones turned on Express transit on our iPhones turned on Express transit on our iPhones have you done this no how does it work have you done this no how does it work have you done this no how does it work you know how on an iPhone you have to you know how on an iPhone you have to you know how on an iPhone you have to double tap on the right hand side and do double tap on the right hand side and do double tap on the right hand side and do face ID and then your card comes up yeah face ID and then your card comes up yeah face ID and then your card comes up yeah so you can go into the Apple wallet and so you can go into the Apple wallet and so you can go into the Apple wallet and turn on Express transit which says if turn on Express transit which says if turn on Express transit which says if it's a Transit person a Transit operator it's a Transit person a Transit operator it's a Transit person a Transit operator a bus a train then you need to do any of

a bus a train then you need to do any of a bus a train then you need to do any of that identification if it's going to be that identification if it's going to be that identification if it's going to be like less than 10 bucks so then you can like less than 10 bucks so then you can like less than 10 bucks so then you can just tap your phone even if it's locked just tap your phone even if it's locked just tap your phone even if it's locked and if you're getting on the bus there's and if you're getting on the bus there's and if you're getting on the bus there's no ceremony I love that that makes it so no ceremony I love that that makes it so no ceremony I love that that makes it so much easier I hate the whole like much easier I hate the whole like much easier I hate the whole like waiting for my exactly I love that so my waiting for my exactly I love that so my waiting for my exactly I love that so my wife was like legit hating that and she wife was like legit hating that and she wife was like legit hating that and she was like oh I don't want to do your was like oh I don't want to do your was like oh I don't want to do your Apple pay like she thinks Apple pay is Apple pay like she thinks Apple pay is Apple pay like she thinks Apple pay is like a a Scot thing she's like that's like a a Scot thing she's like that's like a a Scot thing she's like that's too much like I cuz she's like oh you too much like I cuz she's like oh you too much like I cuz she's like oh you know whatever I have my mask on or my know whatever I have my mask on or my know whatever I have my mask on or my hair is different or whatever like it hair is different or whatever like it hair is different or whatever like it never knows it's her yeah and so I turn never knows it's her yeah and so I turn never knows it's her yeah and so I turn that Express thing on and then the point that Express thing on and then the point that Express thing on and then the point I'm making is that the user interface I'm making is that the user interface I'm making is that the user interface was delightful she's it's been two weeks was delightful she's it's been two weeks was delightful she's it's been two weeks since we've been back she's talking since we've been back she's talking since we've been back she's talking about this still she's telling people about this still she's telling people about this still she's telling people like have you heard the news so I want like have you heard the news so I want like have you heard the news so I want like verifiable credentials pass Keys like verifiable credentials pass Keys like verifiable credentials pass Keys distributed identities to be so easy distributed identities to be so easy distributed identities to be so easy that I'm not personally writing code in that I'm not personally writing code in that I'm not personally writing code in my blog to like get this to work yeah my blog to like get this to work yeah my blog to like get this to work yeah that where your SDK is going to like that where your SDK is going to like that where your SDK is going to like make my life better yes that's where make my life better yes that's where make my life better yes that's where we're going we want to make it easy for we're going we want to make it easy for we're going we want to make it easy for developers to create very easy developers to create very easy developers to create very easy experiences at least in my mind I don't experiences at least in my mind I don't experiences at least in my mind I don't this is not quoting anything TV this this is not quoting anything TV this this is not quoting anything TV this this whole thing is your opinion right this whole thing is your opinion right this whole thing is your opinion right yeah but like you know how open AI kind yeah but like you know how open AI kind yeah but like you know how open AI kind of made artificial intelligence easy of made artificial intelligence easy of made artificial intelligence easy where like at least for me before open where like at least for me before open where like at least for me before open AI did all this stuff I was like AI is AI did all this stuff I was like AI is AI did all this stuff I was like AI is something that like PhD people do it's something that like PhD people do it's something that like PhD people do it's it's real complicated it's cool but not it's real complicated it's cool but not it's real complicated it's cool but not applicable to me and I'd never be able

applicable to me and I'd never be able applicable to me and I'd never be able to use it but I think they brought it to use it but I think they brought it to use it but I think they brought it down a couple levels where it's like down a couple levels where it's like down a couple levels where it's like just their everyday developer like me just their everyday developer like me just their everyday developer like me can use it and we like something like can use it and we like something like can use it and we like something like chat gbt somebody that's not even chat gbt somebody that's not even chat gbt somebody that's not even technical can type a couple questions in technical can type a couple questions in technical can type a couple questions in so that's the level we want to bring it so that's the level we want to bring it so that's the level we want to bring it down to yeah exactly so we're building down to yeah exactly so we're building down to yeah exactly so we're building you're building the base of the pyramid you're building the base of the pyramid you're building the base of the pyramid and at some point it's going to become and at some point it's going to become and at some point it's going to become delightful yeah and my my wife will go delightful yeah and my my wife will go delightful yeah and my my wife will go and talk about it with her friends like and talk about it with her friends like and talk about it with her friends like this is so cool like I have an this is so cool like I have an this is so cool like I have an identifier yeah the the thing that I'm identifier yeah the the thing that I'm identifier yeah the the thing that I'm worried then is then what I lose like worried then is then what I lose like worried then is then what I lose like I've got like you can see here I've got I've got like you can see here I've got I've got like you can see here I've got like all my cards in my Apple wallet like all my cards in my Apple wallet like all my cards in my Apple wallet like I hope that's recoverable like I like I hope that's recoverable like I like I hope that's recoverable like I think we're all afraid of losing our think we're all afraid of losing our think we're all afraid of losing our digital identity especially like our digital identity especially like our digital identity especially like our friend who's unable to get into their friend who's unable to get into their friend who's unable to get into their GitHub right now and you're like but I'm GitHub right now and you're like but I'm GitHub right now and you're like but I'm me yeah yeah I'm actually going through me yeah yeah I'm actually going through me yeah yeah I'm actually going through your beginner guide to you have actually your beginner guide to you have actually your beginner guide to you have actually a web a Blog here I'm going to put this a web a Blog here I'm going to put this a web a Blog here I'm going to put this in the show notes called the beginner in the show notes called the beginner in the show notes called the beginner friendly Illustrated guide to verifiable friendly Illustrated guide to verifiable friendly Illustrated guide to verifiable credentials and it's really long like credentials and it's really long like credentials and it's really long like this is a very detailed blog post this this is a very detailed blog post this this is a very detailed blog post this does not a thing you wrote in an does not a thing you wrote in an does not a thing you wrote in an afternoon you put some work into this afternoon you put some work into this afternoon you put some work into this and it goes all the way through it's got and it goes all the way through it's got and it goes all the way through it's got code examples and links off to go and code examples and links off to go and code examples and links off to go and watch basically watch in public you all watch basically watch in public you all watch basically watch in public you all build this so I will probably be able to build this so I will probably be able to build this so I will probably be able to answer some of those questions myself answer some of those questions myself answer some of those questions myself you know one thing I'm surprised about you know one thing I'm surprised about you know one thing I'm surprised about though and this is just my opinion that though and this is just my opinion that though and this is just my opinion that who's calling it web five like web five who's calling it web five like web five who's calling it web five like web five like web 3 plus Web Two branding is off like web 3 plus Web Two branding is off like web 3 plus Web Two branding is off like I feel like web 3 is kind of burned

like I feel like web 3 is kind of burned like I feel like web 3 is kind of burned and we need we need a cooler name I like and we need we need a cooler name I like and we need we need a cooler name I like did I mean yeah and maybe hopefully one did I mean yeah and maybe hopefully one did I mean yeah and maybe hopefully one day they'll be open day they'll be open day they'll be open to to to changing it up I I wasn't part to to to changing it up I I wasn't part to to to changing it up I I wasn't part of the naming process yeah I know I'm of the naming process yeah I know I'm of the naming process yeah I know I'm putting you on the spot once I learned putting you on the spot once I learned putting you on the spot once I learned more about it I was like oh this is more about it I was like oh this is more about it I was like oh this is actually really cool um but yeah I think actually really cool um but yeah I think actually really cool um but yeah I think I have ideas maybe as I as I gain more I have ideas maybe as I as I gain more I have ideas maybe as I as I gain more yeah could be like how about this yeah yeah could be like how about this yeah yeah could be like how about this yeah so it sounds like this is happening like so it sounds like this is happening like so it sounds like this is happening like I said at the at the base of the pyramid I said at the at the base of the pyramid I said at the at the base of the pyramid but they have cash app they have like at but they have cash app they have like at but they have cash app they have like at some point when this protocol is some point when this protocol is some point when this protocol is ratified when the tools are built we're ratified when the tools are built we're ratified when the tools are built we're going to start seeing this kind of going to start seeing this kind of going to start seeing this kind of expose itself in ways that are going to expose itself in ways that are going to expose itself in ways that are going to make our financial experience better so make our financial experience better so make our financial experience better so back to our conversation about how we're back to our conversation about how we're back to our conversation about how we're going to go and get our money to our going to go and get our money to our going to go and get our money to our relatives I would like to text them the relatives I would like to text them the relatives I would like to text them the money in quotes I don't know how they're money in quotes I don't know how they're money in quotes I don't know how they're going to get it I just want the going to get it I just want the going to get it I just want the experience to be as easy as is that experience to be as easy as is that experience to be as easy as is that really you am I sending it to a bad guy really you am I sending it to a bad guy really you am I sending it to a bad guy okay cool we all agree that it's really okay cool we all agree that it's really okay cool we all agree that it's really you I just got off the phone with you you I just got off the phone with you you I just got off the phone with you here's the money and it just shows up I here's the money and it just shows up I here's the money and it just shows up I don't want to worry about currency don't want to worry about currency don't want to worry about currency conversions which is a huge deal for us conversions which is a huge deal for us conversions which is a huge deal for us right now we're like chasing currencies right now we're like chasing currencies right now we're like chasing currencies trying to get the number right because trying to get the number right because trying to get the number right because some of our familyes in South Africa and some of our familyes in South Africa and some of our familyes in South Africa and we'll lose like 50 bucks if we pick the we'll lose like 50 bucks if we pick the we'll lose like 50 bucks if we pick the wrong day to send the money yeah yeah I wrong day to send the money yeah yeah I wrong day to send the money yeah yeah I I can't wait for I can't wait for it to I can't wait for I can't wait for it to I can't wait for I can't wait for it to be like reduced those transaction fees be like reduced those transaction fees be like reduced those transaction fees it's easy as one two three and as you

it's easy as one two three and as you it's easy as one two three and as you were talking I just remembered something were talking I just remembered something were talking I just remembered something cuz you were saying when is T like cuz you were saying when is T like cuz you were saying when is T like earlier you said when is this going to earlier you said when is this going to earlier you said when is this going to be something that's usable although be something that's usable although be something that's usable although we're not at 1.0 yet there are some we're not at 1.0 yet there are some we're not at 1.0 yet there are some companies that are using our products companies that are using our products companies that are using our products and I think you might find this kind of and I think you might find this kind of and I think you might find this kind of interesting right there's this company interesting right there's this company interesting right there's this company called form free and they have this called form free and they have this called form free and they have this platform called passport and they platform called passport and they platform called passport and they basically are giving back like the power basically are giving back like the power basically are giving back like the power quote unquote to borrowers for getting quote unquote to borrowers for getting quote unquote to borrowers for getting loans loans loans so instead of them being like hey I am so instead of them being like hey I am so instead of them being like hey I am this person here's my credit score blah this person here's my credit score blah this person here's my credit score blah blah blah and then being vulnerable to blah blah and then being vulnerable to blah blah and then being vulnerable to maybe unconscious bias maybe they're maybe unconscious bias maybe they're maybe unconscious bias maybe they're like oh no that person is black and they like oh no that person is black and they like oh no that person is black and they live in the hood I'm not giving them a live in the hood I'm not giving them a live in the hood I'm not giving them a loan in another way they basically say loan in another way they basically say loan in another way they basically say like hey here's only the necessary like hey here's only the necessary like hey here's only the necessary information you need to know about me information you need to know about me information you need to know about me and then it's almost like I think of it and then it's almost like I think of it and then it's almost like I think of it like tender for banks right then some like tender for banks right then some like tender for banks right then some banks come in and say ooh that person banks come in and say ooh that person banks come in and say ooh that person I'm willing to give them a loan and then I'm willing to give them a loan and then I'm willing to give them a loan and then you as the borrower swipe through and you as the borrower swipe through and you as the borrower swipe through and you're like Noah I don't want that bank you're like Noah I don't want that bank you're like Noah I don't want that bank I want this bank and then you match with I want this bank and then you match with I want this bank and then you match with them and then you get the loan through them and then you get the loan through them and then you get the loan through that so they're using verifiable that so they're using verifiable that so they're using verifiable credentials and they're using another credentials and they're using another credentials and they're using another concept that I didn't bring up called a concept that I didn't bring up called a concept that I didn't bring up called a decentralized web node to do all this decentralized web node to do all this decentralized web node to do all this that would be really cool actually my that would be really cool actually my that would be really cool actually my son uh you know who of course is is son uh you know who of course is is son uh you know who of course is is quite younger than us has a different quite younger than us has a different quite younger than us has a different perspective like on how the world should perspective like on how the world should perspective like on how the world should work and he'll come up with these ideas work and he'll come up with these ideas work and he'll come up with these ideas like he just got a scholarship for a like he just got a scholarship for a like he just got a scholarship for a college that he doesn't want want to go college that he doesn't want want to go college that he doesn't want want to go to and he's like well this is great and to and he's like well this is great and to and he's like well this is great and he literally asked me this morning how he literally asked me this morning how he literally asked me this morning how can I use this one to make the other

can I use this one to make the other can I use this one to make the other college give me more money and it's like college give me more money and it's like college give me more money and it's like if it was humans like I suppose you if it was humans like I suppose you if it was humans like I suppose you could get somebody on the phone and could get somebody on the phone and could get somebody on the phone and maybe like make them fight each other maybe like make them fight each other maybe like make them fight each other like not everyone has that privilege like not everyone has that privilege like not everyone has that privilege right not everyone has like a is like a right not everyone has like a is like a right not everyone has like a is like a first round draft pick yeah and can go first round draft pick yeah and can go first round draft pick yeah and can go and be like that but you're describing a and be like that but you're describing a and be like that but you're describing a world where I could say I want a car world where I could say I want a car world where I could say I want a car note and then companies could compete note and then companies could compete note and then companies could compete over me yeah and I could tell them only over me yeah and I could tell them only over me yeah and I could tell them only what I want to tell them to make their what I want to tell them to make their what I want to tell them to make their decision using selective parts of my decision using selective parts of my decision using selective parts of my distributed identity and then to your distributed identity and then to your distributed identity and then to your other point run the web node myself if I other point run the web node myself if I other point run the web node myself if I wanted to on like a in a container yeah wanted to on like a in a container yeah wanted to on like a in a container yeah on my NZ on my network attach storage on my NZ on my network attach storage on my NZ on my network attach storage machine or I could probably have someone machine or I could probably have someone machine or I could probably have someone I trust run it for me yeah exactly I trust run it for me yeah exactly I trust run it for me yeah exactly interesting so some companies are interesting so some companies are interesting so some companies are already doing this it's early days you already doing this it's early days you already doing this it's early days you said you're not 1.0 I'll put you on the said you're not 1.0 I'll put you on the said you're not 1.0 I'll put you on the spot is it 0.7 is it 0 Point like spot is it 0.7 is it 0 Point like spot is it 0.7 is it 0 Point like ballpark how far along is the progress ballpark how far along is the progress ballpark how far along is the progress bar to 1.0 we have a website called are bar to 1.0 we have a website called are bar to 1.0 we have a website called are we web five yet let me go check it I know I think yet let me go check it I know I think some of our packages right now are at some of our packages right now are at some of our packages right now are at 0.41 so we're like halfway there or 0.41 so we're like halfway there or 0.41 so we're like halfway there or almost halfway there with some of the almost halfway there with some of the almost halfway there with some of the stuff that's cool okay here we go are we stuff that's cool okay here we go are we stuff that's cool okay here we go are we web yet.com web five is 85% done 85 web yet.com web five is 85% done 85 web yet.com web five is 85% done 85 that's freaking cool here it says oh that's freaking cool here it says oh that's freaking cool here it says oh okay so it says verifiable credentials okay so it says verifiable credentials okay so it says verifiable credentials are 100% done okay the is are 100% done are 100% done okay the is are 100% done are 100% done okay the is are 100% done but then at the top of the stack but then at the top of the stack but then at the top of the stack decentralized web apps are only 62% done

decentralized web apps are only 62% done decentralized web apps are only 62% done okay and then you can actually I didn't okay and then you can actually I didn't okay and then you can actually I didn't I legit did not know this when I asked I legit did not know this when I asked I legit did not know this when I asked that question so I it's going to sound that question so I it's going to sound that question so I it's going to sound like some kind of softball question that like some kind of softball question that like some kind of softball question that I asked you and now there's a website to I asked you and now there's a website to I asked you and now there's a website to answer it but like that's pretty answer it but like that's pretty answer it but like that's pretty freaking cool I was so glad because my freaking cool I was so glad because my freaking cool I was so glad because my percentages were off but I'm glad no but percentages were off but I'm glad no but percentages were off but I'm glad no but this is great because what it's saying this is great because what it's saying this is great because what it's saying is that all the way up through web nodes is that all the way up through web nodes is that all the way up through web nodes is like in the 90s and then you know is like in the 90s and then you know is like in the 90s and then you know it's a stack right it's five layers to it's a stack right it's five layers to it's a stack right it's five layers to this stack web apps wallets nodes this stack web apps wallets nodes this stack web apps wallets nodes credentials and decentralized credentials and decentralized credentials and decentralized identifiers are we web5 yet.com identifiers are we web5 yet.com identifiers are we web5 yet.com very cool well thank you so much relle very cool well thank you so much relle very cool well thank you so much relle for chatting with me today thank you for chatting with me today thank you for chatting with me today thank you thanks for having me I have been thanks for having me I have been thanks for having me I have been learning all about how TBD is promising learning all about how TBD is promising learning all about how TBD is promising to make the decentralized financial to make the decentralized financial to make the decentralized financial World accessible for everyone and this World accessible for everyone and this World accessible for everyone and this has been another episode of Hansel has been another episode of Hansel has been another episode of Hansel minutes and we'll see you again next minutes and we'll see you again next minutes and we'll see you again next week