Conscious Leadership with Ginny Clarke

hi I'm Scott Hanselman this is another hi I'm Scott Hanselman this is another episode of Hansel minutes today I have episode of Hansel minutes today I have episode of Hansel minutes today I have the distinct pleasure of chatting with the distinct pleasure of chatting with the distinct pleasure of chatting with Jenny Clark she's the CEO of Jenny Clark Jenny Clark she's the CEO of Jenny Clark Jenny Clark she's the CEO of Jenny Clark LLC and the author of The Classic career LLC and the author of The Classic career LLC and the author of The Classic career mapping charting your course in the new mapping charting your course in the new mapping charting your course in the new world of work how are you doing great world of work how are you doing great world of work how are you doing great Scott thank you for having me uh Scott thank you for having me uh Scott thank you for having me uh absolute pleasure to chat with you you absolute pleasure to chat with you you absolute pleasure to chat with you you have been in in leadership in uh in have been in in leadership in uh in have been in in leadership in uh in executive leadership in coaching for executive leadership in coaching for executive leadership in coaching for many years previously you did work at many years previously you did work at many years previously you did work at Google you did uh led a whole team of Google you did uh led a whole team of Google you did uh led a whole team of recruiters you have a long and stored recruiters you have a long and stored recruiters you have a long and stored career and I very much enjoyed your now career and I very much enjoyed your now career and I very much enjoyed your now classic almost 10-year-old book now classic almost 10-year-old book now classic almost 10-year-old book now career mapping charting your course in career mapping charting your course in career mapping charting your course in the new world of work and you've started the new world of work and you've started the new world of work and you've started showing up on my Instagram feed as well showing up on my Instagram feed as well showing up on my Instagram feed as well with just kind of making my feed a with just kind of making my feed a with just kind of making my feed a little more positive and a little more little more positive and a little more little more positive and a little more empowered and I just thank you for that empowered and I just thank you for that empowered and I just thank you for that so much thank you I'm glad you got the so much thank you I'm glad you got the so much thank you I'm glad you got the vibe that's what I was going for I vibe that's what I was going for I vibe that's what I was going for I definitely got the vibe I I know that definitely got the vibe I I know that definitely got the vibe I I know that the book is a little bit older right now the book is a little bit older right now the book is a little bit older right now but it didn't read like it was written but it didn't read like it was written but it didn't read like it was written 10 years ago it seems somewhat preent it 10 years ago it seems somewhat preent it 10 years ago it seems somewhat preent it acknowledges personal branding it acknowledges personal branding it acknowledges personal branding it acknowledges impostor syndrome it acknowledges impostor syndrome it acknowledges impostor syndrome it acknowledges a lot of things that we acknowledges a lot of things that we acknowledges a lot of things that we talk about now with fresh eyes was it talk about now with fresh eyes was it talk about now with fresh eyes was it unusual for you to identify things like unusual for you to identify things like unusual for you to identify things like Executives having imposture syndromes so Executives having imposture syndromes so Executives having imposture syndromes so long ago no because I was an executive long ago no because I was an executive long ago no because I was an executive recruiter and so you know I've reviewed recruiter and so you know I've reviewed recruiter and so you know I've reviewed probably hundreds of thousands of probably hundreds of thousands of probably hundreds of thousands of resumés and assessed thousands of resumés and assessed thousands of resumés and assessed thousands of Executives and I saw a lot of these Executives and I saw a lot of these Executives and I saw a lot of these behaviors that might not have had the behaviors that might not have had the behaviors that might not have had the current label but I witnessed these

current label but I witnessed these current label but I witnessed these Dynamics and I consider myself a bit of Dynamics and I consider myself a bit of Dynamics and I consider myself a bit of an impact um and pretty intuitive and so an impact um and pretty intuitive and so an impact um and pretty intuitive and so in addition to being trained to do in addition to being trained to do in addition to being trained to do Competency Based assessment and to Competency Based assessment and to Competency Based assessment and to really you know assess these individuals really you know assess these individuals really you know assess these individuals with rigor I tried to tap in and see with rigor I tried to tap in and see with rigor I tried to tap in and see what else was going on because I just I what else was going on because I just I what else was going on because I just I have like this radar that is I don't try have like this radar that is I don't try have like this radar that is I don't try to broadcast because I I don't want to broadcast because I I don't want to broadcast because I I don't want people to feel self-conscious but I just people to feel self-conscious but I just people to feel self-conscious but I just sense things about people that they sense things about people that they sense things about people that they don't always speak of you call out very don't always speak of you call out very don't always speak of you call out very early in the book that when someone is early in the book that when someone is early in the book that when someone is looking for a job they need to be have a looking for a job they need to be have a looking for a job they need to be have a free agent mentality and you call out free agent mentality and you call out free agent mentality and you call out that they need to be self-aware that they need to be self-aware that they need to be self-aware introspective and have their ego in introspective and have their ego in introspective and have their ego in check and that term ego comes up check and that term ego comes up check and that term ego comes up multiple times in your work and in your multiple times in your work and in your multiple times in your work and in your book I hear that people who are at the book I hear that people who are at the book I hear that people who are at the highest level CEO levels and and and highest level CEO levels and and and highest level CEO levels and and and seite have big egos because they seite have big egos because they seite have big egos because they wouldn't make it there otherwise how do wouldn't make it there otherwise how do wouldn't make it there otherwise how do you reconcile it keeping your ego in you reconcile it keeping your ego in you reconcile it keeping your ego in check servant leadership with that high check servant leadership with that high check servant leadership with that high performance that's required in this performance that's required in this performance that's required in this Society to be in Sea Suite frankly I Society to be in Sea Suite frankly I Society to be in Sea Suite frankly I think that's a bit of an archaic model think that's a bit of an archaic model think that's a bit of an archaic model and this whole notion of needing to have and this whole notion of needing to have and this whole notion of needing to have a big ego I'll go here a little bit but a big ego I'll go here a little bit but a big ego I'll go here a little bit but that's a and I'm not bashing men but I that's a and I'm not bashing men but I that's a and I'm not bashing men but I do think I talk a lot about the Divine do think I talk a lot about the Divine do think I talk a lot about the Divine male and the divine feminine the their male and the divine feminine the their male and the divine feminine the their references to energies and to the extent references to energies and to the extent references to energies and to the extent that women came into the workforce later that women came into the workforce later that women came into the workforce later we walked into these constructs that we walked into these constructs that we walked into these constructs that were developed by men men tend to lead were developed by men men tend to lead were developed by men men tend to lead more I'm generalizing but men and women more I'm generalizing but men and women more I'm generalizing but men and women both have some of these energies in the

both have some of these energies in the both have some of these energies in the absence of women being around to balance absence of women being around to balance absence of women being around to balance them out them out them out arguably men have this dominant I'm arguably men have this dominant I'm arguably men have this dominant I'm going to charge the hill I want to beat going to charge the hill I want to beat going to charge the hill I want to beat you out it's all these sort of Primal you out it's all these sort of Primal you out it's all these sort of Primal urges from when we were probably cavemen urges from when we were probably cavemen urges from when we were probably cavemen and women and you know this whole ego and women and you know this whole ego and women and you know this whole ego thing goes with that women come in to thing goes with that women come in to thing goes with that women come in to the extent that we have been expected to the extent that we have been expected to the extent that we have been expected to emulate men you're going to see some of emulate men you're going to see some of emulate men you're going to see some of that behavior but I think more recently that behavior but I think more recently that behavior but I think more recently you know in the last 20 30 years women you know in the last 20 30 years women you know in the last 20 30 years women are realizing and and so are some of are realizing and and so are some of are realizing and and so are some of these men that we can bring a great these men that we can bring a great these men that we can bring a great energy that can help balance what I energy that can help balance what I energy that can help balance what I think is required going forward so ego think is required going forward so ego think is required going forward so ego to me you need some ego but to be to me you need some ego but to be to me you need some ego but to be narcissistic to be self-centered those narcissistic to be self-centered those narcissistic to be self-centered those things I don't think serve anyone well things I don't think serve anyone well things I don't think serve anyone well so I think we're seeing a new so I think we're seeing a new so I think we're seeing a new orientation that is focused on orientation that is focused on orientation that is focused on self-awareness and empathy and some of self-awareness and empathy and some of self-awareness and empathy and some of these things that that acknowledge the these things that that acknowledge the these things that that acknowledge the humanity and all of this I really humanity and all of this I really humanity and all of this I really appreciate the way you framed that I appreciate the way you framed that I appreciate the way you framed that I mean there is a redefinition of what mean there is a redefinition of what mean there is a redefinition of what masculinity means you know I'm a masculinity means you know I'm a masculinity means you know I'm a computer person so there's a slider bar computer person so there's a slider bar computer person so there's a slider bar of like masculine to feminine and it's a of like masculine to feminine and it's a of like masculine to feminine and it's a spectrum that we work through and you spectrum that we work through and you spectrum that we work through and you know a bunch of dudes duding uh a bunch know a bunch of dudes duding uh a bunch know a bunch of dudes duding uh a bunch of bros hanging out like I am guilty of of bros hanging out like I am guilty of of bros hanging out like I am guilty of that because I tell my young teenage that because I tell my young teenage that because I tell my young teenage sons that like you know you and your sons that like you know you and your sons that like you know you and your buddy hanging out's one thing but four buddy hanging out's one thing but four buddy hanging out's one thing but four or five teenage boys like the IQ the or five teenage boys like the IQ the or five teenage boys like the IQ the collective IQ in the room kind of lowers collective IQ in the room kind of lowers collective IQ in the room kind of lowers you got to balance that out a little bit

you got to balance that out a little bit you got to balance that out a little bit you know with some other perspectives you know with some other perspectives you know with some other perspectives because yeah otherwise you're just kind because yeah otherwise you're just kind because yeah otherwise you're just kind of goofing around in front of the gas of goofing around in front of the gas of goofing around in front of the gas and Sip and you're going to get into and Sip and you're going to get into and Sip and you're going to get into trouble and that's kind of what we see trouble and that's kind of what we see trouble and that's kind of what we see in the SE Suite yeah well for sure there in the SE Suite yeah well for sure there in the SE Suite yeah well for sure there there in lies the The Perils of there in lies the The Perils of there in lies the The Perils of homogeneity let's put it that way that homogeneity let's put it that way that homogeneity let's put it that way that is actually a really good point so you is actually a really good point so you is actually a really good point so you said you're going to go there I'm going said you're going to go there I'm going said you're going to go there I'm going to go somewhere interesting it is of to go somewhere interesting it is of to go somewhere interesting it is of note I think it's it's you are six foot note I think it's it's you are six foot note I think it's it's you are six foot one yeah I think I've shrug an inch I'm one yeah I think I've shrug an inch I'm one yeah I think I've shrug an inch I'm six feet okay so you're six feet tall in six feet okay so you're six feet tall in six feet okay so you're six feet tall in moving through space as a black woman in moving through space as a black woman in moving through space as a black woman in a leadership position now today uh I a leadership position now today uh I a leadership position now today uh I think it would be fair to say you know think it would be fair to say you know think it would be fair to say you know an elder and that you have so much an elder and that you have so much an elder and that you have so much experience absolutely but also with this experience absolutely but also with this experience absolutely but also with this kind of in the unpacking of you have kind of in the unpacking of you have kind of in the unpacking of you have this height privilege and we look for this height privilege and we look for this height privilege and we look for height in our leaders intuitively has height in our leaders intuitively has height in our leaders intuitively has that worked for you or against you that worked for you or against you that worked for you or against you bringing both feminine energy but also bringing both feminine energy but also bringing both feminine energy but also physical presence to a space when you physical presence to a space when you physical presence to a space when you are leading I think it's mostly worked are leading I think it's mostly worked are leading I think it's mostly worked for me mostly at the same time I here's for me mostly at the same time I here's for me mostly at the same time I here's what a couple things that it did people what a couple things that it did people what a couple things that it did people notice me some people are intimidated by notice me some people are intimidated by notice me some people are intimidated by the height there were times when I would the height there were times when I would the height there were times when I would try to play small you can't hide being try to play small you can't hide being try to play small you can't hide being six feet tall you walk into a room six feet tall you walk into a room six feet tall you walk into a room people see you but it taught me to pay people see you but it taught me to pay people see you but it taught me to pay attention to be cognizant and to sort of attention to be cognizant and to sort of attention to be cognizant and to sort of again reading some other people's energy again reading some other people's energy again reading some other people's energy and to attempt to put them at ease and and to attempt to put them at ease and and to attempt to put them at ease and so I think that became sort of a so I think that became sort of a so I think that became sort of a superpower I'm not shying away my mother superpower I'm not shying away my mother superpower I'm not shying away my mother used to poke me in the back to make me used to poke me in the back to make me used to poke me in the back to make me stand up straight so at the same time I stand up straight so at the same time I stand up straight so at the same time I think it was advantageous because it

think it was advantageous because it think it was advantageous because it offered me this awareness of myself offered me this awareness of myself offered me this awareness of myself relative to other people and tried to relative to other people and tried to relative to other people and tried to BGE a bridge to find that connection for BGE a bridge to find that connection for BGE a bridge to find that connection for us to come together that was sort of The us to come together that was sort of The us to come together that was sort of The Upside and the downside people Upside and the downside people Upside and the downside people remembered me I had somebody recently remembered me I had somebody recently remembered me I had somebody recently that I hadn't seen for 35 years and he that I hadn't seen for 35 years and he that I hadn't seen for 35 years and he said this was a very accomplished said this was a very accomplished said this was a very accomplished gentleman now in his 80s and he said gentleman now in his 80s and he said gentleman now in his 80s and he said Jenny we were at an alumni thing at Jenny we were at an alumni thing at Jenny we were at an alumni thing at Kellog walked into his home he said Kellog walked into his home he said Kellog walked into his home he said Jenny I remember you and he said and not Jenny I remember you and he said and not Jenny I remember you and he said and not because you're because you're because you're tall which what I took as a high tall which what I took as a high tall which what I took as a high compliment the moving through space compliment the moving through space compliment the moving through space thing is something I'm struggling to thing is something I'm struggling to thing is something I'm struggling to teach both my early in career people uh teach both my early in career people uh teach both my early in career people uh and my sons cuz I want them to take up and my sons cuz I want them to take up and my sons cuz I want them to take up space but I want them to check their space but I want them to check their space but I want them to check their egos uh I want them to be proud of egos uh I want them to be proud of egos uh I want them to be proud of themselves but I don't want them to themselves but I don't want them to themselves but I don't want them to overly self-promote there's kind of this overly self-promote there's kind of this overly self-promote there's kind of this constant back and forth yeah as constant back and forth yeah as constant back and forth yeah as Americans and Western culture really Americans and Western culture really Americans and Western culture really want everyone to be unique there's all want everyone to be unique there's all want everyone to be unique there's all these ads about personal branding and these ads about personal branding and these ads about personal branding and building your brand you have a section building your brand you have a section building your brand you have a section where you call it the elevator speech where you call it the elevator speech where you call it the elevator speech though which which is different than though which which is different than though which which is different than than your personal brand I'm curious than your personal brand I'm curious than your personal brand I'm curious your face kind of squinched up there your face kind of squinched up there your face kind of squinched up there when I said personal brand well when I when I said personal brand well when I when I said personal brand well when I think about social media and how many think about social media and how many think about social media and how many people are trying to Brand themselves as people are trying to Brand themselves as people are trying to Brand themselves as something that they're not that's not something that they're not that's not something that they're not that's not what I'm talking about I'm talking about what I'm talking about I'm talking about what I'm talking about I'm talking about first of all get in touch with who you first of all get in touch with who you first of all get in touch with who you are because this is where again my my are because this is where again my my are because this is where again my my sort of x-ray vision comes in you know I sort of x-ray vision comes in you know I sort of x-ray vision comes in you know I can spot an impostor in a minute in a can spot an impostor in a minute in a can spot an impostor in a minute in a second actually I can tell when somebody

second actually I can tell when somebody second actually I can tell when somebody isn't comfortable in their skin it's isn't comfortable in their skin it's isn't comfortable in their skin it's very apparent to me to me that's what very apparent to me to me that's what very apparent to me to me that's what it's about the brand in a professional it's about the brand in a professional it's about the brand in a professional context should be about you being a to context should be about you being a to context should be about you being a to articulate what you're bringing to the articulate what you're bringing to the articulate what you're bringing to the party how are you adding value that party how are you adding value that party how are you adding value that might be different from what your brand might be different from what your brand might be different from what your brand is going to be at home to the extent is going to be at home to the extent is going to be at home to the extent that you need one or with your community that you need one or with your community that you need one or with your community right so I don't want people to right so I don't want people to right so I don't want people to misconstrue the brand I've elevated my misconstrue the brand I've elevated my misconstrue the brand I've elevated my reference to really talk more in terms reference to really talk more in terms reference to really talk more in terms of a personal narrative so I think it's of a personal narrative so I think it's of a personal narrative so I think it's consistent with the elevator pitch it's consistent with the elevator pitch it's consistent with the elevator pitch it's the elevator pitch might be derived from the elevator pitch might be derived from the elevator pitch might be derived from this long longer form narrative that one this long longer form narrative that one this long longer form narrative that one needs to establish for oneself so that needs to establish for oneself so that needs to establish for oneself so that very often I say it this way if I'm very often I say it this way if I'm very often I say it this way if I'm interviewing you and I ask the question interviewing you and I ask the question interviewing you and I ask the question tell me about yourself far too often tell me about yourself far too often tell me about yourself far too often people would just kind of raise up their people would just kind of raise up their people would just kind of raise up their resume and say here I no I like I read resume and say here I no I like I read resume and say here I no I like I read that I want you to tell me what's not on that I want you to tell me what's not on that I want you to tell me what's not on here I want you to tell me who you are here I want you to tell me who you are here I want you to tell me who you are how you think there's no right or wrong how you think there's no right or wrong how you think there's no right or wrong answer and that makes people answer and that makes people answer and that makes people uncomfortable but to the extent that you uncomfortable but to the extent that you uncomfortable but to the extent that you know yourself that will become apparent know yourself that will become apparent know yourself that will become apparent to me and that's attractive because now to me and that's attractive because now to me and that's attractive because now I can better understand how you might I can better understand how you might I can better understand how you might work with other people in the work with other people in the work with other people in the organization and how you see yourself so organization and how you see yourself so organization and how you see yourself so I think people need to get comfortable I think people need to get comfortable I think people need to get comfortable with that and include elements of like I with that and include elements of like I with that and include elements of like I said how you think your personal style said how you think your personal style said how you think your personal style what moves you what you don't like what what moves you what you don't like what what moves you what you don't like what are your aspirations that's your are your aspirations that's your are your aspirations that's your opportunity to put some stuff out there opportunity to put some stuff out there opportunity to put some stuff out there for people who probably do want to help

for people who probably do want to help for people who probably do want to help you you use a term in your work which I you you use a term in your work which I you you use a term in your work which I really enjoy it's called affirmations really enjoy it's called affirmations really enjoy it's called affirmations you know there's elevator speeches you know there's elevator speeches you know there's elevator speeches there's Brands there's but when you there's Brands there's but when you there's Brands there's but when you affirm something you're solidifying it affirm something you're solidifying it affirm something you're solidifying it in your mind and you're saying this is in your mind and you're saying this is in your mind and you're saying this is who I am this is what I am that seems who I am this is what I am that seems who I am this is what I am that seems very intentional and I see very intentional and I see very intentional and I see intentionality deliberate practice intentionality deliberate practice intentionality deliberate practice conscious focus in everything that you conscious focus in everything that you conscious focus in everything that you do were you always that deliberate do were you always that deliberate do were you always that deliberate because some of us are just flailing and because some of us are just flailing and because some of us are just flailing and making it up when did Consciousness and making it up when did Consciousness and making it up when did Consciousness and deliberation happen I think I've deliberation happen I think I've deliberation happen I think I've probably always been fairly deliberate probably always been fairly deliberate probably always been fairly deliberate in things that I did and said I studied in things that I did and said I studied in things that I did and said I studied Linguistics and French in college and so Linguistics and French in college and so Linguistics and French in college and so I'm very precise with my language I love I'm very precise with my language I love I'm very precise with my language I love words I used to literally read the words I used to literally read the words I used to literally read the dictionary as a kid because I thought it dictionary as a kid because I thought it dictionary as a kid because I thought it was interesting I did that too okay see was interesting I did that too okay see was interesting I did that too okay see I'm not the only one yeah I was just I'm not the only one yeah I was just I'm not the only one yeah I was just like that's a much better word I'm gonna like that's a much better word I'm gonna like that's a much better word I'm gonna use that I be like I was the 12-year-old use that I be like I was the 12-year-old use that I be like I was the 12-year-old using big words because it's the better using big words because it's the better using big words because it's the better word well there all these nuances why word well there all these nuances why word well there all these nuances why not get good at really Discerning what not get good at really Discerning what not get good at really Discerning what it is that you mean right but I guess it is that you mean right but I guess it is that you mean right but I guess you know just in terms of being you know just in terms of being you know just in terms of being deliberate I developed a spiritual deliberate I developed a spiritual deliberate I developed a spiritual practice in my 30s after my father practice in my 30s after my father practice in my 30s after my father passed away way I think I'd always had passed away way I think I'd always had passed away way I think I'd always had this orientation of I had an Alice and this orientation of I had an Alice and this orientation of I had an Alice and Wonderland moment where I stared into Wonderland moment where I stared into Wonderland moment where I stared into the mirror in my bedroom and kind of the mirror in my bedroom and kind of the mirror in my bedroom and kind of wondered who I was I just had a sense wondered who I was I just had a sense wondered who I was I just had a sense that there was more to me than this that there was more to me than this that there was more to me than this physical body and what I could see and physical body and what I could see and physical body and what I could see and so the spiritual practice and guidance so the spiritual practice and guidance so the spiritual practice and guidance that I've had for the last several that I've had for the last several that I've had for the last several decades has been really additive and I

decades has been really additive and I decades has been really additive and I think it helps people begin to see think it helps people begin to see think it helps people begin to see themselves differently to see the themselves differently to see the themselves differently to see the connection between us again finding more connection between us again finding more connection between us again finding more Humanity versus what in corporate Humanity versus what in corporate Humanity versus what in corporate parlaments can be a very crude and harsh parlaments can be a very crude and harsh parlaments can be a very crude and harsh place to be to the extent that we have place to be to the extent that we have place to be to the extent that we have lost our Humanity it's interesting that lost our Humanity it's interesting that lost our Humanity it's interesting that you say crude and harsh because you're a you say crude and harsh because you're a you say crude and harsh because you're a an executive leadership coach enabling an executive leadership coach enabling an executive leadership coach enabling capitalists in a crude and you know capitalists in a crude and you know capitalists in a crude and you know uncomfortable environment so it's like uncomfortable environment so it's like uncomfortable environment so it's like we have this game that we have to play we have this game that we have to play we have this game that we have to play we might as well be really good at it we might as well be really good at it we might as well be really good at it some may be better than others and some some may be better than others and some some may be better than others and some may have different goals uh is that ever may have different goals uh is that ever may have different goals uh is that ever hard to reconcile I've been in the game hard to reconcile I've been in the game hard to reconcile I've been in the game for so long I understand it and now at for so long I understand it and now at for so long I understand it and now at this point as you say from the this point as you say from the this point as you say from the perspective of an elder my goal is to perspective of an elder my goal is to perspective of an elder my goal is to help Empower people to change the help Empower people to change the help Empower people to change the game because the game has not included game because the game has not included game because the game has not included and was never designed to include all and was never designed to include all and was never designed to include all I'm not blaming capitalism for that I'm not blaming capitalism for that I'm not blaming capitalism for that right that wasn't the essence of right that wasn't the essence of right that wasn't the essence of capitalism right of course we can maybe capitalism right of course we can maybe capitalism right of course we can maybe talk about the influences that I think talk about the influences that I think talk about the influences that I think derailed it because it's happened in my derailed it because it's happened in my derailed it because it's happened in my lifetime I believe I don't struggle with lifetime I believe I don't struggle with lifetime I believe I don't struggle with that because I'm trying to offer a that because I'm trying to offer a that because I'm trying to offer a compatible compatible compatible transparence for those of us still transparence for those of us still transparence for those of us still working in the space we need to be working in the space we need to be working in the space we need to be different for everyone we owe it to the different for everyone we owe it to the different for everyone we owe it to the rest of civilization we're at a seminal rest of civilization we're at a seminal rest of civilization we're at a seminal point in my view and we can't afford to point in my view and we can't afford to point in my view and we can't afford to just keep running things the way we've just keep running things the way we've just keep running things the way we've run them we need leaders who think

run them we need leaders who think run them we need leaders who think differently who are inclusive in the differently who are inclusive in the differently who are inclusive in the broadest sense of the word and want to broadest sense of the word and want to broadest sense of the word and want to tap into what everyone can bring to the tap into what everyone can bring to the tap into what everyone can bring to the table Yeah a friend of mine who was on table Yeah a friend of mine who was on table Yeah a friend of mine who was on the podcast a number of years ago who the podcast a number of years ago who the podcast a number of years ago who passed away a few weeks after the show passed away a few weeks after the show passed away a few weeks after the show named Abel Wang had a saying and we all named Abel Wang had a saying and we all named Abel Wang had a saying and we all made t-shirts uh of it which was don't made t-shirts uh of it which was don't made t-shirts uh of it which was don't accept the defaults love that in the accept the defaults love that in the accept the defaults love that in the computer world where I'm in you know computer world where I'm in you know computer world where I'm in you know when you're installing an application when you're installing an application when you're installing an application you can just go next next next and you you can just go next next next and you you can just go next next next and you hit finish and the thing got installed hit finish and the thing got installed hit finish and the thing got installed yeah but then there's always a button yeah but then there's always a button yeah but then there's always a button that no one ever pushes it says custom that no one ever pushes it says custom that no one ever pushes it says custom where you get to find out what is this where you get to find out what is this where you get to find out what is this thing about to do to my computer yeah thing about to do to my computer yeah thing about to do to my computer yeah and he always said always push custom and he always said always push custom and he always said always push custom you got to push custom CU you don't know you got to push custom CU you don't know you got to push custom CU you don't know what's about to happen it said people what's about to happen it said people what's about to happen it said people are just living their life out there are just living their life out there are just living their life out there pushing default and then they're upset pushing default and then they're upset pushing default and then they're upset when their computer gets messed up or when their computer gets messed up or when their computer gets messed up or when their life doesn't work out um when their life doesn't work out um when their life doesn't work out um you've talked about conducting a you've talked about conducting a you've talked about conducting a personal inventory and I was really personal inventory and I was really personal inventory and I was really struck when you mentioned looking in the struck when you mentioned looking in the struck when you mentioned looking in the mirror that moment where an executive or mirror that moment where an executive or mirror that moment where an executive or a leader or an emerging person needs to a leader or an emerging person needs to a leader or an emerging person needs to like pause for a second go what the heck like pause for a second go what the heck like pause for a second go what the heck am I doing that's right am I just am I doing that's right am I just am I doing that's right am I just letting my life happen by default letting my life happen by default letting my life happen by default autopilot yeah autopilot it feels like a autopilot yeah autopilot it feels like a autopilot yeah autopilot it feels like a lot of us are so tired with everything lot of us are so tired with everything lot of us are so tired with everything that's going on in the world right now that's going on in the world right now that's going on in the world right now that autopilot is just easier sometimes that autopilot is just easier sometimes that autopilot is just easier sometimes and you wake up and it's like oh it's and you wake up and it's like oh it's and you wake up and it's like oh it's Thursday afternoon when did this happen Thursday afternoon when did this happen Thursday afternoon when did this happen except we haven't exercised our choice except we haven't exercised our choice except we haven't exercised our choice and that to me is so sad we haven't even and that to me is so sad we haven't even and that to me is so sad we haven't even explored some of the depths of our explored some of the depths of our explored some of the depths of our buness to know what it feels like to buness to know what it feels like to buness to know what it feels like to find joy to find satisfaction to find

find joy to find satisfaction to find find joy to find satisfaction to find love I talk about love and I don't mean love I talk about love and I don't mean love I talk about love and I don't mean the romantic kind I just mean I love you the romantic kind I just mean I love you the romantic kind I just mean I love you I have love I look at people in people's I have love I look at people in people's I have love I look at people in people's faces and smile because I have love for faces and smile because I have love for faces and smile because I have love for them there's some people I don't them there's some people I don't them there's some people I don't necessarily like but I can find it in my necessarily like but I can find it in my necessarily like but I can find it in my heart to have love to me that's where heart to have love to me that's where heart to have love to me that's where we've Fallen away there's room for that we've Fallen away there's room for that we've Fallen away there's room for that now there's a need for that now there's a need for that now there's a need for that now is your business powered by now is your business powered by now is your business powered by postgress but the cost of existing ETL postgress but the cost of existing ETL postgress but the cost of existing ETL tools are breaking the bank pdb is the tools are breaking the bank pdb is the tools are breaking the bank pdb is the game changer you've been waiting for game changer you've been waiting for game changer you've been waiting for save up to 5x on cost while seamlessly save up to 5x on cost while seamlessly save up to 5x on cost while seamlessly replicating data from postest to Data replicating data from postest to Data replicating data from postest to Data Warehouse like Snowflake and data bricks Warehouse like Snowflake and data bricks Warehouse like Snowflake and data bricks their blazing fast technology will their blazing fast technology will their blazing fast technology will ensure real-time replication at any ensure real-time replication at any ensure real-time replication at any scale traditional data movement tools scale traditional data movement tools scale traditional data movement tools will sacrifice speed reliability and will sacrifice speed reliability and will sacrifice speed reliability and features for breadth the pdb solution features for breadth the pdb solution features for breadth the pdb solution prioritizes quality over breadth they prioritizes quality over breadth they prioritizes quality over breadth they focus on topnotch replication from focus on topnotch replication from focus on topnotch replication from postgress to data warehouses it's postgress to data warehouses it's postgress to data warehouses it's costeffective it's got blazing fast costeffective it's got blazing fast costeffective it's got blazing fast replication and it is purpose-built with replication and it is purpose-built with replication and it is purpose-built with Native features some of their success Native features some of their success Native features some of their success stories replicate 700 million rows stories replicate 700 million rows stories replicate 700 million rows monthly with less than minute latency monthly with less than minute latency monthly with less than minute latency they saved 5x flat iron migrated 35,000 they saved 5x flat iron migrated 35,000 they saved 5x flat iron migrated 35,000 tables with terabytes of data within a tables with terabytes of data within a tables with terabytes of data within a week are you ready to optimize your data week are you ready to optimize your data week are you ready to optimize your data Movement try pure DB today if you use Movement try pure DB today if you use Movement try pure DB today if you use postgress at the core of your business postgress at the core of your business postgress at the core of your business they offer this gamechanging solution they offer this gamechanging solution they offer this gamechanging solution you can enjoy a one- Monon free trial you can enjoy a one- Monon free trial you can enjoy a one- Monon free trial and an exclusive 25% discount for a year and an exclusive 25% discount for a year and an exclusive 25% discount for a year just visit just visit just visit pb. Hansel minutes that's PE

pb. Hansel minutes that's PE pb. Hansel minutes that's PE db. minutes to supercharge your data db. minutes to supercharge your data db. minutes to supercharge your data movement movement movement today people who are watching may be today people who are watching may be today people who are watching may be enjoying my facial reactions to the enjoying my facial reactions to the enjoying my facial reactions to the things that you say because I'm lighting things that you say because I'm lighting things that you say because I'm lighting up in different places so I turned 50 up in different places so I turned 50 up in different places so I turned 50 last week and I am fascinated between last week and I am fascinated between last week and I am fascinated between the difference in empathy that I have the difference in empathy that I have the difference in empathy that I have now in my 50s versus the complete lack now in my 50s versus the complete lack now in my 50s versus the complete lack of empathy that my 18-year-old has and of empathy that my 18-year-old has and of empathy that my 18-year-old has and I'm looking at him and he's he's an I'm looking at him and he's he's an I'm looking at him and he's he's an alien it could be something simple where alien it could be something simple where alien it could be something simple where someone at the fast food restaurant is someone at the fast food restaurant is someone at the fast food restaurant is rude and my big dad energy that I bring rude and my big dad energy that I bring rude and my big dad energy that I bring to the situation is I wonder what's to the situation is I wonder what's to the situation is I wonder what's going on in this person's life that they going on in this person's life that they going on in this person's life that they needed to snap like it's got nothing to needed to snap like it's got nothing to needed to snap like it's got nothing to do with me or my diet coke my small fry do with me or my diet coke my small fry do with me or my diet coke my small fry did not push this person over the edge I did not push this person over the edge I did not push this person over the edge I I'm trying to understand if it's because I'm trying to understand if it's because I'm trying to understand if it's because I have the journey now and I can look I have the journey now and I can look I have the journey now and I can look back when did that empathy happen and back when did that empathy happen and back when did that empathy happen and how do we I don't know encourage it to how do we I don't know encourage it to how do we I don't know encourage it to grow earlier in our young people and in grow earlier in our young people and in grow earlier in our young people and in our leaders I honestly don't know other our leaders I honestly don't know other our leaders I honestly don't know other than to model it my brother said than to model it my brother said than to model it my brother said something thing to me I only have one something thing to me I only have one something thing to me I only have one sibling he's only 20 months older and sibling he's only 20 months older and sibling he's only 20 months older and we're completely different and we used we're completely different and we used we're completely different and we used to bicker and fight and all those things to bicker and fight and all those things to bicker and fight and all those things but he said something more recently he's but he said something more recently he's but he said something more recently he's like Jenny you I think his word was like Jenny you I think his word was like Jenny you I think his word was softened and I was like that's probably softened and I was like that's probably softened and I was like that's probably Fair yeah I was incredibly impatient Fair yeah I was incredibly impatient Fair yeah I was incredibly impatient still am driven not just for driven sake still am driven not just for driven sake still am driven not just for driven sake but knew that I'm here for a purpose and but knew that I'm here for a purpose and but knew that I'm here for a purpose and wanting to find that and worked in very

wanting to find that and worked in very wanting to find that and worked in very competitive aggressive environments and competitive aggressive environments and competitive aggressive environments and so I think some of it was that I took on so I think some of it was that I took on so I think some of it was that I took on aspects of that in my life um I was aspects of that in my life um I was aspects of that in my life um I was known and I'm still known to be brutally known and I'm still known to be brutally known and I'm still known to be brutally honest I'm not going to change that but honest I'm not going to change that but honest I'm not going to change that but I think most people know that it's I think most people know that it's I think most people know that it's coming from a place of love and caring coming from a place of love and caring coming from a place of love and caring I'm not going to try to break you down I'm not going to try to break you down I'm not going to try to break you down intentionally that's never been my goal intentionally that's never been my goal intentionally that's never been my goal but I've learned how to say maybe soften but I've learned how to say maybe soften but I've learned how to say maybe soften the tone just so that it might not be so the tone just so that it might not be so the tone just so that it might not be so offputting for some who aren't used to offputting for some who aren't used to offputting for some who aren't used to it the softening of the tone has been a it the softening of the tone has been a it the softening of the tone has been a challenge when I'm trying to teach young challenge when I'm trying to teach young challenge when I'm trying to teach young people because just because it's true people because just because it's true people because just because it's true doesn't mean that it needed to be doesn't mean that it needed to be doesn't mean that it needed to be delivered with a hammer and I talk about delivered with a hammer and I talk about delivered with a hammer and I talk about the envelope versus the the envelope versus the the envelope versus the message the shape of the envelope if message the shape of the envelope if message the shape of the envelope if it's you know if it's a hammer then the it's you know if it's a hammer then the it's you know if it's a hammer then the message is going to be completely missed message is going to be completely missed message is going to be completely missed so uh I'm not a huge fan of the whole so uh I'm not a huge fan of the whole so uh I'm not a huge fan of the whole compliment sandwich idea but at the same compliment sandwich idea but at the same compliment sandwich idea but at the same time though you didn't have to be awful time though you didn't have to be awful time though you didn't have to be awful when you gave the truthful and conscious when you gave the truthful and conscious when you gave the truthful and conscious feedback absolutely not and I think feedback absolutely not and I think feedback absolutely not and I think that's one of the reasons most people that's one of the reasons most people that's one of the reasons most people especially leader shy away from giving especially leader shy away from giving especially leader shy away from giving feedback because they don't feel feedback because they don't feel feedback because they don't feel comfortable and they're putting comfortable and they're putting comfortable and they're putting themselves here's here's a sense when it themselves here's here's a sense when it themselves here's here's a sense when it comes that empathy isn't necessarily comes that empathy isn't necessarily comes that empathy isn't necessarily serving them because they are may maybe serving them because they are may maybe serving them because they are may maybe fearing and recalling when someone came fearing and recalling when someone came fearing and recalling when someone came at them and it hurt and they don't want at them and it hurt and they don't want at them and it hurt and they don't want to do that versus acknowledging that to do that versus acknowledging that to do that versus acknowledging that you're doing the individual the you're doing the individual the you're doing the individual the disservice by not offering them some of disservice by not offering them some of disservice by not offering them some of this critical feedback which one is more this critical feedback which one is more this critical feedback which one is more important and from where I'm sitting as important and from where I'm sitting as important and from where I'm sitting as a leader I owe it to you to help you a leader I owe it to you to help you a leader I owe it to you to help you develop and get better what you do so

develop and get better what you do so develop and get better what you do so let me speak to you through that let me speak to you through that let me speak to you through that lens some people are going to be you lens some people are going to be you lens some people are going to be you know they'll take it personally well know they'll take it personally well know they'll take it personally well they won't like it but again to the they won't like it but again to the they won't like it but again to the extent that I can tap in and try to meet extent that I can tap in and try to meet extent that I can tap in and try to meet you halfway to convey this that's what you halfway to convey this that's what you halfway to convey this that's what I'm obligated to do yeah I am learning I'm obligated to do yeah I am learning I'm obligated to do yeah I am learning every day uh at my current job I've been every day uh at my current job I've been every day uh at my current job I've been there 15 years uh which for some people there 15 years uh which for some people there 15 years uh which for some people is a very long time for me is only half is a very long time for me is only half is a very long time for me is only half my career uh and just literally today my career uh and just literally today my career uh and just literally today after this meeting I was in a leadership after this meeting I was in a leadership after this meeting I was in a leadership team meeting my boss came back from team meeting my boss came back from team meeting my boss came back from vacation he had given us a task the the vacation he had given us a task the the vacation he had given us a task the the leadership team and uh rather than leadership team and uh rather than leadership team and uh rather than saying you didn't do what I needed this saying you didn't do what I needed this saying you didn't do what I needed this is not what I asked for he said what I is not what I asked for he said what I is not what I asked for he said what I was looking for was bullet bullet bullet was looking for was bullet bullet bullet was looking for was bullet bullet bullet and he just left it there and left it to and he just left it there and left it to and he just left it there and left it to us to go oh that's what he was looking us to go oh that's what he was looking us to go oh that's what he was looking for we didn't deliver it he didn't say for we didn't deliver it he didn't say for we didn't deliver it he didn't say you didn't deliver it he let us realize you didn't deliver it he let us realize you didn't deliver it he let us realize that and in doing it he just simply that and in doing it he just simply that and in doing it he just simply clarified what he wanted yeah and then clarified what he wanted yeah and then clarified what he wanted yeah and then we as a leadership team are uh are we as a leadership team are uh are we as a leadership team are uh are adjusting and it was such a subtle way adjusting and it was such a subtle way adjusting and it was such a subtle way of saying you bunch of morons you messed of saying you bunch of morons you messed of saying you bunch of morons you messed up while I was gone and you didn't give up while I was gone and you didn't give up while I was gone and you didn't give me anything what I asked for but none of me anything what I asked for but none of me anything what I asked for but none of that was implied it was just simply how that was implied it was just simply how that was implied it was just simply how we decided to react to oh I'm clarifying we decided to react to oh I'm clarifying we decided to react to oh I'm clarifying what I needed and here I am 15 years what I needed and here I am 15 years what I needed and here I am 15 years into the career 50 years old I'm like into the career 50 years old I'm like into the career 50 years old I'm like wow I got to write that down what a wow I got to write that down what a wow I got to write that down what a masterful way of giving us clear crisp masterful way of giving us clear crisp masterful way of giving us clear crisp expectations but I didn't feel expectations but I didn't feel expectations but I didn't feel admonished and I didn't feel like anyone admonished and I didn't feel like anyone admonished and I didn't feel like anyone was being rude it was a very conscious was being rude it was a very conscious was being rude it was a very conscious way of talking to us to me it sounds

way of talking to us to me it sounds way of talking to us to me it sounds like he left room for the possibility like he left room for the possibility like he left room for the possibility that he wasn't clear right because very that he wasn't clear right because very that he wasn't clear right because very often I know in my mind it's here this often I know in my mind it's here this often I know in my mind it's here this is very clear right well everybody is very clear right well everybody is very clear right well everybody perceives things differently we forget perceives things differently we forget perceives things differently we forget that the words on the page may be the that the words on the page may be the that the words on the page may be the same the way it's taken in is going to same the way it's taken in is going to same the way it's taken in is going to change person by person doesn't mean change person by person doesn't mean change person by person doesn't mean you're not smart just means we're all you're not smart just means we're all you're not smart just means we're all different right so good on him for for different right so good on him for for different right so good on him for for using that approach yeah he was using that approach yeah he was using that approach yeah he was acknowledging that uh his job as a acknowledging that uh his job as a acknowledging that uh his job as a manager is to create Clarity and manager is to create Clarity and manager is to create Clarity and generate some forward energy he didn't generate some forward energy he didn't generate some forward energy he didn't generate any stop energy he's a very yes generate any stop energy he's a very yes generate any stop energy he's a very yes and kind of a manager love that so you and kind of a manager love that so you and kind of a manager love that so you you've talked about the conscious you've talked about the conscious you've talked about the conscious leadership dimensions of conscious leadership dimensions of conscious leadership dimensions of conscious leadership I wonder if this resonates leadership I wonder if this resonates leadership I wonder if this resonates with you like I mentioned before that with you like I mentioned before that with you like I mentioned before that I've been doing this for 30 years but I I've been doing this for 30 years but I I've been doing this for 30 years but I started to be really introspective about started to be really introspective about started to be really introspective about my time and I think I was asleep for my time and I think I was asleep for my time and I think I was asleep for maybe seven years of the 30 so like maybe seven years of the 30 so like maybe seven years of the 30 so like people walk around go I got 30 years people walk around go I got 30 years people walk around go I got 30 years experience you know and they kind of experience you know and they kind of experience you know and they kind of bonky on the head with their 30 years bonky on the head with their 30 years bonky on the head with their 30 years experience but I recognized that there experience but I recognized that there experience but I recognized that there were years where I was just like kind of were years where I was just like kind of were years where I was just like kind of blinked and the year was gone and I blinked and the year was gone and I blinked and the year was gone and I wasn't conscious wasn't connected are wasn't conscious wasn't connected are wasn't conscious wasn't connected are are you thinking that conscious leaders are you thinking that conscious leaders are you thinking that conscious leaders need to really kind of keep waking up need to really kind of keep waking up need to really kind of keep waking up and reminding themselves that I'm here and reminding themselves that I'm here and reminding themselves that I'm here and this is what I'm doing so that those and this is what I'm doing so that those and this is what I'm doing so that those years really matter oh for sure you know years really matter oh for sure you know years really matter oh for sure you know we we live multifaceted lives and at we we live multifaceted lives and at we we live multifaceted lives and at midpoint of my career more or less well midpoint of my career more or less well midpoint of my career more or less well it was early in my 30s mid-30s I became

it was early in my 30s mid-30s I became it was early in my 30s mid-30s I became a single mother so I had my son and soon a single mother so I had my son and soon a single mother so I had my son and soon after divorced there are times when I after divorced there are times when I after divorced there are times when I felt as though I had to kind of bridge felt as though I had to kind of bridge felt as though I had to kind of bridge those two worlds I had recently started those two worlds I had recently started those two worlds I had recently started as Spencer Stewart and where it was as Spencer Stewart and where it was as Spencer Stewart and where it was highly demanding and so I forced myself highly demanding and so I forced myself highly demanding and so I forced myself in some ways through this practice to in some ways through this practice to in some ways through this practice to make sure that I remained present to the make sure that I remained present to the make sure that I remained present to the extent that I could for both first my extent that I could for both first my extent that I could for both first my son first and foremost and my job my son first and foremost and my job my son first and foremost and my job my career it was important it can be hard career it was important it can be hard career it was important it can be hard to do but it requires again for me it to do but it requires again for me it to do but it requires again for me it was um a meditation practice that helped was um a meditation practice that helped was um a meditation practice that helped me find that bridge and at least pull me me find that bridge and at least pull me me find that bridge and at least pull me back to Center when I was feeling back to Center when I was feeling back to Center when I was feeling especially stressed for one reason or especially stressed for one reason or especially stressed for one reason or another it's interesting some people may another it's interesting some people may another it's interesting some people may be listening if they've made it this far be listening if they've made it this far be listening if they've made it this far in the podcast and they may say wow this in the podcast and they may say wow this in the podcast and they may say wow this is very practical but it's always also is very practical but it's always also is very practical but it's always also very woo woo but at the same time I was very woo woo but at the same time I was very woo woo but at the same time I was in an executive leadership coaching in an executive leadership coaching in an executive leadership coaching session yesterday and they LED my VPS session yesterday and they LED my VPS session yesterday and they LED my VPS through a meditation moment which is for through a meditation moment which is for through a meditation moment which is for me as a techie is a little squishy so me as a techie is a little squishy so me as a techie is a little squishy so I'm trying to you know it's like my I'm trying to you know it's like my I'm trying to you know it's like my audience is technical I am technical I audience is technical I am technical I audience is technical I am technical I think we wish the world would just think we wish the world would just think we wish the world would just compile perfectly with zero errors and compile perfectly with zero errors and compile perfectly with zero errors and the code would run the first way but the code would run the first way but the code would run the first way but there's so much more Humanity in our there's so much more Humanity in our there's so much more Humanity in our Tech Community than there is Tech sure Tech Community than there is Tech sure Tech Community than there is Tech sure it's it's nice to kind of remember that it's it's nice to kind of remember that it's it's nice to kind of remember that that is the case well we don't even that is the case well we don't even that is the case well we don't even breathe enough sometimes breathe enough sometimes breathe enough sometimes I'm working with someone coaching I'm working with someone coaching I'm working with someone coaching someone and we just talked yesterday

someone and we just talked yesterday someone and we just talked yesterday about the idea of breath because she was about the idea of breath because she was about the idea of breath because she was really getting very anxious and upset really getting very anxious and upset really getting very anxious and upset not with me but just about work and I not with me but just about work and I not with me but just about work and I said how often do you breathe said how often do you breathe said how often do you breathe out who has time to breathe that was a out who has time to breathe that was a out who has time to breathe that was a response we're gonna work on just response we're gonna work on just response we're gonna work on just breathing just breathing out you could breathing just breathing out you could breathing just breathing out you could call a woooo if you want it's also a call a woooo if you want it's also a call a woooo if you want it's also a physical shift in your body when you physical shift in your body when you physical shift in your body when you breathe out you are relaxing you're breathe out you are relaxing you're breathe out you are relaxing you're allowing even for those split seconds allowing even for those split seconds allowing even for those split seconds yeah it's also an acknowledgement that yeah it's also an acknowledgement that yeah it's also an acknowledgement that it is a we are in we are in these meat it is a we are in we are in these meat it is a we are in we are in these meat bags we are tools we are someone was bags we are tools we are someone was bags we are tools we are someone was telling me that we're three l pounds of telling me that we're three l pounds of telling me that we're three l pounds of Jell-O that's piloting this this robot Jell-O that's piloting this this robot Jell-O that's piloting this this robot you know this biological robot that's an you know this biological robot that's an you know this biological robot that's an image it is it is ridiculous right but image it is it is ridiculous right but image it is it is ridiculous right but it's like wow there's like three pounds it's like wow there's like three pounds it's like wow there's like three pounds of Jell-O piloting this robot and you're of Jell-O piloting this robot and you're of Jell-O piloting this robot and you're surprised that when you do things to it surprised that when you do things to it surprised that when you do things to it that it goes poorly whether you put bad that it goes poorly whether you put bad that it goes poorly whether you put bad fuel in it or you put bad energy or if fuel in it or you put bad energy or if fuel in it or you put bad energy or if you're just running tapes we used to you're just running tapes we used to you're just running tapes we used to call them tapes in the 70s and 80s you call them tapes in the 70s and 80s you call them tapes in the 70s and 80s you know those those tapes of childhood know those those tapes of childhood know those those tapes of childhood stuff and what your parents said they're stuff and what your parents said they're stuff and what your parents said they're always going you know you feed garbage always going you know you feed garbage always going you know you feed garbage in and you're going to get garbage out in and you're going to get garbage out in and you're going to get garbage out it's so true so self-reflection is it's so true so self-reflection is it's so true so self-reflection is really at the Key of being a conscious really at the Key of being a conscious really at the Key of being a conscious leader from your perspective yeah what leader from your perspective yeah what leader from your perspective yeah what are you doing in any given moment are are you doing in any given moment are are you doing in any given moment are you making it better are you making it you making it better are you making it you making it better are you making it worse do you even know have you asked worse do you even know have you asked worse do you even know have you asked anybody how are you engaging with people anybody how are you engaging with people anybody how are you engaging with people you don't have to just be mechanical

you don't have to just be mechanical you don't have to just be mechanical about it but just as you're walking about it but just as you're walking about it but just as you're walking around notice the small things look in around notice the small things look in around notice the small things look in someone's face are they having a bad day someone's face are they having a bad day someone's face are they having a bad day are they stressed are they confused you are they stressed are they confused you are they stressed are they confused you know ask your team members it it's isn't know ask your team members it it's isn't know ask your team members it it's isn't hard but it's about being human yeah hard but it's about being human yeah hard but it's about being human yeah remembering to be human is the remembering to be human is the remembering to be human is the equivalent of remembering to breathe it equivalent of remembering to breathe it equivalent of remembering to breathe it is yes well said yeah right we'll die if is yes well said yeah right we'll die if is yes well said yeah right we'll die if we don't we don't we don't breathe it's just that simple I had breathe it's just that simple I had breathe it's just that simple I had someone come on the podcast and we were someone come on the podcast and we were someone come on the podcast and we were getting doing the prep we're in this getting doing the prep we're in this getting doing the prep we're in this this application that you and I are in this application that you and I are in this application that you and I are in right now and uh we were getting ready right now and uh we were getting ready right now and uh we were getting ready to start and I just said are you in the to start and I just said are you in the to start and I just said are you in the right head space for this right now right head space for this right now right head space for this right now would it be better if we did this later would it be better if we did this later would it be better if we did this later and she said no I'm I'm just not I was and she said no I'm I'm just not I was and she said no I'm I'm just not I was going to just do this but I am having an going to just do this but I am having an going to just do this but I am having an issue right now with some personal stuff issue right now with some personal stuff issue right now with some personal stuff and can we do this in a week no you know and can we do this in a week no you know and can we do this in a week no you know like something said are you in the right like something said are you in the right like something said are you in the right head space and I wanted to ask it in a head space and I wanted to ask it in a head space and I wanted to ask it in a way that was respectful yeah without way that was respectful yeah without way that was respectful yeah without being condescending and and we did it a being condescending and and we did it a being condescending and and we did it a week later and it was totally great and week later and it was totally great and week later and it was totally great and they said I really appreciated you they said I really appreciated you they said I really appreciated you giving me that space But if I hadn't giving me that space But if I hadn't giving me that space But if I hadn't stopped to breathe and had doing such stopped to breathe and had doing such stopped to breathe and had doing such looked at their face I wouldn't have looked at their face I wouldn't have looked at their face I wouldn't have seen that that question needed to be seen that that question needed to be seen that that question needed to be asked there you have it and how many asked there you have it and how many asked there you have it and how many missed opportunities are there in a day missed opportunities are there in a day missed opportunities are there in a day to do to do to do that see now you just blew my mind right that see now you just blew my mind right that see now you just blew my mind right because now I'm looking back and this is because now I'm looking back and this is because now I'm looking back and this is the other thing right you got to look the other thing right you got to look the other thing right you got to look back on your day and you think about back on your day and you think about back on your day and you think about those missed opportunities then you those missed opportunities then you those missed opportunities then you forgive yourself absolutely forgive forgive yourself absolutely forgive forgive yourself absolutely forgive yourself super important and then

yourself super important and then yourself super important and then reflect on how you can make you know the reflect on how you can make you know the reflect on how you can make you know the next day that much better my friend JD next day that much better my friend JD next day that much better my friend JD Meyer says uh Monday Vision Friday Meyer says uh Monday Vision Friday Meyer says uh Monday Vision Friday reflection I love that for me it's reflection I love that for me it's reflection I love that for me it's Monday vision and Friday Monday vision and Friday Monday vision and Friday forgiveness uh where you go okay I forgiveness uh where you go okay I forgiveness uh where you go okay I missed a couple of things I write them missed a couple of things I write them missed a couple of things I write them down I put them on my Post-It notes on down I put them on my Post-It notes on down I put them on my Post-It notes on my on my monitor and in Mondays a FR my on my monitor and in Mondays a FR my on my monitor and in Mondays a FR week and I try to do better it's the week and I try to do better it's the week and I try to do better it's the Forgiveness part that is so challenging Forgiveness part that is so challenging Forgiveness part that is so challenging especially in times of gosh I mean of of especially in times of gosh I mean of of especially in times of gosh I mean of of layoffs and return to work and remote layoffs and return to work and remote layoffs and return to work and remote work I don't know how the seite is doing work I don't know how the seite is doing work I don't know how the seite is doing it right now yeah I think there's what I it right now yeah I think there's what I it right now yeah I think there's what I would refer to as emotional would refer to as emotional would refer to as emotional Detachment but see here you are telling Detachment but see here you are telling Detachment but see here you are telling leaders to get in touch with their leaders to get in touch with their leaders to get in touch with their emotions but they have to be detached in emotions but they have to be detached in emotions but they have to be detached in some of the very difficult parts of some of the very difficult parts of some of the very difficult parts of their jobs I don't necessarily think their jobs I don't necessarily think their jobs I don't necessarily think they need to be I think they feel that they need to be I think they feel that they need to be I think they feel that they need to be in executing many of they need to be in executing many of they need to be in executing many of these things a lot of decisions are made these things a lot of decisions are made these things a lot of decisions are made without the empathy right the the without the empathy right the the without the empathy right the the empathetic Len or they'll just kind of empathetic Len or they'll just kind of empathetic Len or they'll just kind of punch HR will handle this yeah we've punch HR will handle this yeah we've punch HR will handle this yeah we've seen those go very badly how was it that seen those go very badly how was it that seen those go very badly how was it that certain companies in the tech sector certain companies in the tech sector certain companies in the tech sector laid people off via email I know some laid people off via email I know some laid people off via email I know some people to whom that happened inexcusable people to whom that happened inexcusable people to whom that happened inexcusable in my view yeah inexcusable never should in my view yeah inexcusable never should in my view yeah inexcusable never should that happen I I'm not excusing the bad that happen I I'm not excusing the bad that happen I I'm not excusing the bad behavior I'm saying that people have behavior I'm saying that people have behavior I'm saying that people have made a decision to turn off that made a decision to turn off that made a decision to turn off that awareness and again I would suggest that awareness and again I would suggest that awareness and again I would suggest that it's at their own Peril it's at their own Peril it's at their own Peril ultimately because they're they're

ultimately because they're they're ultimately because they're they're missing the richness the ability to missing the richness the ability to missing the richness the ability to connect even if you're delivering bad connect even if you're delivering bad connect even if you're delivering bad news have the courage to stand and face news have the courage to stand and face news have the courage to stand and face somebody and acknowledge them have the somebody and acknowledge them have the somebody and acknowledge them have the humanity right and the humility to stand humanity right and the humility to stand humanity right and the humility to stand and say it to someone that really click and say it to someone that really click and say it to someone that really click with have the courage to look him in the with have the courage to look him in the with have the courage to look him in the face because here I am trying to teach face because here I am trying to teach face because here I am trying to teach my 16-year-old my 18-year-old how to my 16-year-old my 18-year-old how to my 16-year-old my 18-year-old how to look someone in the face shake their look someone in the face shake their look someone in the face shake their hand and hand them their resume my hand and hand them their resume my hand and hand them their resume my 18-year-old got a job on Main Street at 18-year-old got a job on Main Street at 18-year-old got a job on Main Street at a local place as a dishwasher and he was a local place as a dishwasher and he was a local place as a dishwasher and he was going to go online and just send his going to go online and just send his going to go online and just send his resume all over the place pray and prey resume all over the place pray and prey resume all over the place pray and prey as I call it there you go so what I had as I call it there you go so what I had as I call it there you go so what I had him do is I had him print out 10 rums I him do is I had him print out 10 rums I him do is I had him print out 10 rums I dropped them off at the top of Main dropped them off at the top of Main dropped them off at the top of Main Street and I said you walk down one side Street and I said you walk down one side Street and I said you walk down one side and the other side and you pass out rums and the other side and you pass out rums and the other side and you pass out rums by the fourth restaurant he had a job by the fourth restaurant he had a job by the fourth restaurant he had a job and they had him work that night because and they had him work that night because and they had him work that night because he had the courage to look him in the he had the courage to look him in the he had the courage to look him in the eye he dressed up he had his little tie eye he dressed up he had his little tie eye he dressed up he had his little tie and he shook their hand fast forward God and he shook their hand fast forward God and he shook their hand fast forward God forbid if he has to lay someone off when forbid if he has to lay someone off when forbid if he has to lay someone off when he's in the sea Suite I hope that he he's in the sea Suite I hope that he he's in the sea Suite I hope that he also has the ability to look them in the also has the ability to look them in the also has the ability to look them in the eye and that courage it is courage it is eye and that courage it is courage it is eye and that courage it is courage it is it is well um I could talk to you for it is well um I could talk to you for it is well um I could talk to you for another half an hour but the show is another half an hour but the show is another half an hour but the show is only a half an hour long I do want to only a half an hour long I do want to only a half an hour long I do want to thank you so much for your time and for thank you so much for your time and for thank you so much for your time and for uh for everything that you share out uh for everything that you share out uh for everything that you share out there and I want to point people to your there and I want to point people to your there and I want to point people to your podcast fifth dimensional leadership podcast fifth dimensional leadership podcast fifth dimensional leadership that folks can find all over the places that folks can find all over the places that folks can find all over the places that they can get podcasts on Apple that they can get podcasts on Apple that they can get podcasts on Apple podcasts check out her book at career podcasts check out her book at career podcasts check out her book at career mapping charting your course in the new mapping charting your course in the new mapping charting your course in the new world of work and of course Jenny world of work and of course Jenny world of work and of course Jenny clark.com and your Instagram reals are clark.com and your Instagram reals are clark.com and your Instagram reals are just a joy thank you it's just a little

just a joy thank you it's just a little just a joy thank you it's just a little little spark of you know serotonin every little spark of you know serotonin every little spark of you know serotonin every day you kind of show up and just give me day you kind of show up and just give me day you kind of show up and just give me a little something deep to think about a little something deep to think about a little something deep to think about great and I just want to thank you very great and I just want to thank you very great and I just want to thank you very much forly for that thank you for paying much forly for that thank you for paying much forly for that thank you for paying attention and for welcoming here I attention and for welcoming here I attention and for welcoming here I really appreciate it Scott we have been really appreciate it Scott we have been really appreciate it Scott we have been chatting with Jenny Clark she's a chatting with Jenny Clark she's a chatting with Jenny Clark she's a world-renowned conscious leadership world-renowned conscious leadership world-renowned conscious leadership expert you can check her out at Jenny expert you can check her out at Jenny expert you can check her out at Jenny clark.com clark.com clark.com this has been another episode of Hansel this has been another episode of Hansel this has been another episode of Hansel minutes and we'll see you again next minutes and we'll see you again next minutes and we'll see you again next [Music]