EPISODE 20 - Scott & Mark Learn To… Vibe Coding and Being Productive

[Music] [Music] I bet, by the way, I've been vi coding I bet, by the way, I've been vi coding I bet, by the way, I've been vi coding so much lately. I made a um so Jay sent so much lately. I made a um so Jay sent so much lately. I made a um so Jay sent me a um an LLM study guide, like a list me a um an LLM study guide, like a list me a um an LLM study guide, like a list of interview questions he found on uh on of interview questions he found on uh on of interview questions he found on uh on LinkedIn. Uh yeah. So, I made a um check LinkedIn. Uh yeah. So, I made a um check LinkedIn. Uh yeah. So, I made a um check this out. I made a I took it's like a this out. I made a I took it's like a this out. I made a I took it's like a long long long PDF and it's like latex long long long PDF and it's like latex long long long PDF and it's like latex and equations and stuff. So I chunked it and equations and stuff. So I chunked it and equations and stuff. So I chunked it up and made a website um up and made a website um up and made a website um did the whole thing has like when you did the whole thing has like when you did the whole thing has like when you check it but it's not a website based on check it but it's not a website based on check it but it's not a website based on the questions. It's basically finding the questions. It's basically finding the questions. It's basically finding all references, all um all scientific all references, all um all scientific all references, all um all scientific papers, YouTubetubes, anything like it's papers, YouTubetubes, anything like it's papers, YouTubetubes, anything like it's a giant study guide with a tracker and a giant study guide with a tracker and a giant study guide with a tracker and then when you click on the check boxes then when you click on the check boxes then when you click on the check boxes like I watched that video, I watched like I watched that video, I watched like I watched that video, I watched that video. It increases the progress that video. It increases the progress that video. It increases the progress bar. It's all local storage. bar. It's all local storage. bar. It's all local storage. It's got vi the whole thing took like 3 It's got vi the whole thing took like 3 It's got vi the whole thing took like 3 hours in cloud code. hours in cloud code. hours in cloud code. Did do you um Did do you um Did do you um look type any cut?

look type any cut? look type any cut? Did not type a line. Did not type a line. Did not type a line. Yeah. So Yeah. So Yeah. So what I'm doing is doing I'm solving that what I'm doing is doing I'm solving that what I'm doing is doing I'm solving that exact problem in all the different exact problem in all the different exact problem in all the different agents. I'll do it in GitHub agent. I'll agents. I'll do it in GitHub agent. I'll agents. I'll do it in GitHub agent. I'll do it in cloud and then see what I get do it in cloud and then see what I get do it in cloud and then see what I get with each one. with each one. with each one. Yeah. Oh, that's kind of cool idea. Um, Yeah. Oh, that's kind of cool idea. Um, Yeah. Oh, that's kind of cool idea. Um, I vibe code it. I I've got a couple I vibe code it. I I've got a couple I vibe code it. I I've got a couple projects I'm vi coding, but one of them projects I'm vi coding, but one of them projects I'm vi coding, but one of them is just about done, but it's been is just about done, but it's been is just about done, but it's been painful. So, painful. So, painful. So, Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. On Linux, the CD command doesn't behave On Linux, the CD command doesn't behave On Linux, the CD command doesn't behave the way that I want. I want it to do the way that I want. I want it to do the way that I want. I want it to do searches. I want it to autocomplete. I searches. I want it to autocomplete. I searches. I want it to autocomplete. I wanted to I wanted to I wanted to I been navigating up and down these been navigating up and down these been navigating up and down these directory hierarchies that are very directory hierarchies that are very directory hierarchies that are very regular and and I find myself having to regular and and I find myself having to regular and and I find myself having to go cd dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot go cd dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot go cd dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot and I'm like oh I'm going off one more and I'm like oh I'm going off one more and I'm like oh I'm going off one more dot dot or I went too far go back down. dot dot or I went too far go back down. dot dot or I went too far go back down. So I've made this uh this combination of So I've made this uh this combination of So I've made this uh this combination of a rust program and a shell script shell a rust program and a shell script shell a rust program and a shell script shell integration that where I can just type integration that where I can just type integration that where I can just type uh here let me show you a demo. You uh here let me show you a demo. You uh here let me show you a demo. You should you should Have you ever used should you should Have you ever used should you should Have you ever used Zoxide? Zoxide? Zoxide? Um, Um, Um, Zoxide is basically Z. It's the It's the Zoxide is basically Z. It's the It's the Zoxide is basically Z. It's the It's the CD for CD for CD for Z and it doesn't do what I want.

Z and it doesn't do what I want. Z and it doesn't do what I want. Yeah. You don't like Okay. So, what do Yeah. You don't like Okay. So, what do Yeah. You don't like Okay. So, what do you got? you got? you got? Uh, so let me flip over here and show Uh, so let me flip over here and show Uh, so let me flip over here and show you. Yiann thinks it's really cool, too. you. Yiann thinks it's really cool, too. you. Yiann thinks it's really cool, too. So, I've got her endorsement. So, I've got her endorsement. So, I've got her endorsement. Share your share your screen cuz we're Share your share your screen cuz we're Share your share your screen cuz we're recording. recording. recording. Um, we are. Can Um, we are. Can Um, we are. Can I send you my study guide as well? Okay. You see me? Okay. You see me? Yep. Yep. Yep. Um, Um, Um, so I've got this directory hierarchy so I've got this directory hierarchy so I've got this directory hierarchy here. So it's I've called it MCD. Oops. here. So it's I've called it MCD. Oops. here. So it's I've called it MCD. Oops. Make the fonts bigger. Control scroll Make the fonts bigger. Control scroll Make the fonts bigger. Control scroll or or control or command plus. or or control or command plus. or or control or command plus. There you go. Okay. All right. That's awesome.

That's awesome. All right. So, there's a bunch of All right. So, there's a bunch of All right. So, there's a bunch of directories under here. Um, directories under here. Um, directories under here. Um, just to play with it so you can see how just to play with it so you can see how just to play with it so you can see how it works. it works. it works. So, I there's a four down there. So, I there's a four down there. So, I there's a four down there. You should be able to CD into FU 4 You should be able to CD into FU 4 You should be able to CD into FU 4 directly is what you're saying. directly is what you're saying. directly is what you're saying. Like watch. Like watch. Like watch. Ooh. Oo, and watch this. Ooh. Oo, and watch this. Ooh. Oo, and watch this. Okay. Okay. Okay. Oh, okay. Is it scoped? What is the Oh, okay. Is it scoped? What is the Oh, okay. Is it scoped? What is the scoping? Is it scoped within a certain scoping? Is it scoped within a certain scoping? Is it scoped within a certain window? window? window? What do you mean scoped? What do you mean scoped? What do you mean scoped? Um, if you typed one and there was uh Um, if you typed one and there was uh Um, if you typed one and there was uh three or four things that it could three or four things that it could three or four things that it could potentially be. Is it scoped within temp potentially be. Is it scoped within temp potentially be. Is it scoped within temp and down or within data drive and down? and down or within data drive and down? and down or within data drive and down? So, it goes up first and then down. It So, it goes up first and then down. It So, it goes up first and then down. It goes for current directory first. goes for current directory first. goes for current directory first. Nothing there. Up and then down. And so, Nothing there. Up and then down. And so, Nothing there. Up and then down. And so, if I type three, watch this. three. If I if I type three, watch this. three. If I if I type three, watch this. three. If I just press enter, it's going to take me just press enter, it's going to take me just press enter, it's going to take me to the first match. to the first match. to the first match. I'm still getting used to using it. If I I'm still getting used to using it. If I I'm still getting used to using it. If I go three tab go three tab go three tab Oh, yeah. There you go. Look at that.

Oh, yeah. There you go. Look at that. Oh, yeah. There you go. Look at that. That's hot, That's hot, That's hot, right? It's It's called the It's the pit right? It's It's called the It's the pit right? It's It's called the It's the pit of success, right? It's like I just just of success, right? It's like I just just of success, right? It's like I just just do it. I just know you know what I You do it. I just know you know what I You do it. I just know you know what I You know what I mean? And it just does it. know what I mean? And it just does it. know what I mean? And it just does it. Yeah. It does what I This is what like Yeah. It does what I This is what like Yeah. It does what I This is what like what I want. I made a tool. You should what I want. I made a tool. You should what I want. I made a tool. You should have done this. You should have done have done this. You should have done have done this. You should have done this years ago and now No, you're going this years ago and now No, you're going this years ago and now No, you're going to put it in CIS internals so we all get to put it in CIS internals so we all get to put it in CIS internals so we all get it. it. it. Yeah, I think I'll just put it in my own Yeah, I think I'll just put it in my own Yeah, I think I'll just put it in my own repo. I don't know. I guess I should repo. I don't know. I guess I should repo. I don't know. I guess I should make it a CIS internals tool. make it a CIS internals tool. make it a CIS internals tool. I mean, we're already getting it with I mean, we're already getting it with I mean, we're already getting it with Windit. Just bring it along for the Windit. Just bring it along for the Windit. Just bring it along for the ride. ride. ride. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, that's cool. So, that's cool. So, that's cool. Can you switch drives? Can you switch Can you switch drives? Can you switch Can you switch drives? Can you switch drives with it? drives with it? drives with it? One of the things I've never liked about One of the things I've never liked about One of the things I've never liked about CD is you have to type cd CD is you have to type cd CD is you have to type cd to swap across drives. to swap across drives. to swap across drives. This is on on Linux right now. This is on on Linux right now. This is on on Linux right now. Oh, that's on Linux. Okay. Oh, that's on Linux. Okay. Oh, that's on Linux. Okay. Yeah, this is a Linux machine. Yeah, this is a Linux machine. Yeah, this is a Linux machine. So, watch this. There's a subdirectory So, watch this. There's a subdirectory So, watch this. There's a subdirectory called experiments. That's a couple called experiments. That's a couple called experiments. That's a couple down. down. down. So, if I type there, So, if I type there, So, if I type there, um, will the tab would the tab have um, will the tab would the tab have um, will the tab would the tab have worked? worked? worked? Yeah. Watch this.

Oh, that's interesting. Oh, that's interesting. Now, it's doing a big big search. So, if Now, it's doing a big big search. So, if Now, it's doing a big big search. So, if I just I Wait, Wait, that's a clever idea to use an ellipsus that's a clever idea to use an ellipsus that's a clever idea to use an ellipsus for an animation. for an animation. for an animation. Yeah, let me um That's my idea. Yeah, let me um That's my idea. Yeah, let me um That's my idea. Did it store an index to spin? Did it store an index to spin? Did it store an index to spin? No, it doesn't score an index. No, it doesn't score an index. No, it doesn't score an index. Okay, Okay, Okay, so this is a little more narrow, but so this is a little more narrow, but so this is a little more narrow, but no, it's still a lot. no, it's still a lot. no, it's still a lot. Yeah. Anyway, I mean a lot, right? It's Yeah. Anyway, I mean a lot, right? It's Yeah. Anyway, I mean a lot, right? It's close to being done. There's a there's close to being done. There's a there's close to being done. There's a there's an edge case that So, so it There we go. So that's the So there were multiple So that's the So there were multiple matches a couple down. matches a couple down. matches a couple down. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. For For For that's cool. that's cool. that's cool. Yeah. So I mean it I think it's you know Yeah. So I mean it I think it's you know Yeah. So I mean it I think it's you know very intuitive, very convenient. very intuitive, very convenient. very intuitive, very convenient. Well, it's more intuitive. Like it's Well, it's more intuitive. Like it's Well, it's more intuitive. Like it's it's like CD on steroids. It's CD++ as it's like CD on steroids. It's CD++ as it's like CD on steroids. It's CD++ as opposed to like Z and Zoxide which are a opposed to like Z and Zoxide which are a opposed to like Z and Zoxide which are a little bit more opinionated. little bit more opinionated. little bit more opinionated. Yeah. And they those I I tried I was Yeah. And they those I I tried I was Yeah. And they those I I tried I was like when I uh Yannan told me about Z.

like when I uh Yannan told me about Z. like when I uh Yannan told me about Z. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. And I'm like, "Oh, let me go try it." Um And I'm like, "Oh, let me go try it." Um And I'm like, "Oh, let me go try it." Um and I was already partway through this and I was already partway through this and I was already partway through this and then I'm like, "Well, like these and then I'm like, "Well, like these and then I'm like, "Well, like these things that I just did, it doesn't do." things that I just did, it doesn't do." things that I just did, it doesn't do." Well, cuz Z Yeah. And Z uses um FZF, the Well, cuz Z Yeah. And Z uses um FZF, the Well, cuz Z Yeah. And Z uses um FZF, the fuzzy finder, fuzzy finder, fuzzy finder, command line fuzzy finder. command line fuzzy finder. command line fuzzy finder. Uh this seems more narrow and like less Uh this seems more narrow and like less Uh this seems more narrow and like less fuzzy. Like if you misspelled fuzzy. Like if you misspelled fuzzy. Like if you misspelled experiments, it's not going to Yours is experiments, it's not going to Yours is experiments, it's not going to Yours is not going to go there. not going to go there. not going to go there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. And how much do you ever look at Cool. And how much do you ever look at Cool. And how much do you ever look at the code? the code? the code? Yeah, it's um it's roughly a thousand Yeah, it's um it's roughly a thousand Yeah, it's um it's roughly a thousand lines of Rust lines of Rust lines of Rust or 800, you know, 900 lines. or 800, you know, 900 lines. or 800, you know, 900 lines. Okay. 800. And did you look at it or did Okay. 800. And did you look at it or did Okay. 800. And did you look at it or did you like judge it or did you just you like judge it or did you just you like judge it or did you just focused on features? focused on features? focused on features? I focused on features. I mean, I looked I focused on features. I mean, I looked I focused on features. I mean, I looked at it just just out of curiosity. Like at it just just out of curiosity. Like at it just just out of curiosity. Like here's where it does the So there's here's where it does the So there's here's where it does the So there's prioritization that has to happen for prioritization that has to happen for prioritization that has to happen for this to work the way that I want it. And this to work the way that I want it. And this to work the way that I want it. And it and the AI figured out, oh, I need to it and the AI figured out, oh, I need to it and the AI figured out, oh, I need to actually it's right here. Need to do actually it's right here. Need to do actually it's right here. Need to do prioritizations. prioritizations. prioritizations. Ah, it is it is cool to be able to just Ah, it is it is cool to be able to just Ah, it is it is cool to be able to just spawn into existence a thing that you spawn into existence a thing that you spawn into existence a thing that you like cuz you would have done this, but like cuz you would have done this, but like cuz you would have done this, but you would like I don't have a weekend to you would like I don't have a weekend to you would like I don't have a weekend to dedicate to it. And here you dedicate an dedicate to it. And here you dedicate an dedicate to it. And here you dedicate an hour.

hour. hour. Well, actually, how long did it take an Well, actually, how long did it take an Well, actually, how long did it take an hour? I mean, hour? I mean, hour? I mean, many many rounds. So, this test this is many many rounds. So, this test this is many many rounds. So, this test this is kind of like at the limit of Frontier kind of like at the limit of Frontier kind of like at the limit of Frontier model capability. So I and I've tried 41 model capability. So I and I've tried 41 model capability. So I and I've tried 41 01 Sonnet 4 and Sonnet 4 I think is 01 Sonnet 4 and Sonnet 4 I think is 01 Sonnet 4 and Sonnet 4 I think is still doing the best job at this still doing the best job at this still doing the best job at this but um it but um it but um it this was all in co-pilot agent mode. this was all in co-pilot agent mode. this was all in co-pilot agent mode. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. The challenge is so that I found Cool. The challenge is so that I found Cool. The challenge is so that I found was that uh like I'll it'll you know I was that uh like I'll it'll you know I was that uh like I'll it'll you know I say now do this make it so that when I say now do this make it so that when I say now do this make it so that when I you know press enter it just takes me to you know press enter it just takes me to you know press enter it just takes me to the first match and it and it works on the first match and it and it works on the first match and it and it works on that and it h it's very pedantic. So, that and it h it's very pedantic. So, that and it h it's very pedantic. So, I've actually gone to auto approve. I've actually gone to auto approve. I've actually gone to auto approve. There's another way you can set auto There's another way you can set auto There's another way you can set auto approve. So, it's not asking it for approve. So, it's not asking it for approve. So, it's not asking it for every thing it wants to do because every thing it wants to do because every thing it wants to do because otherwise it's like now I want to do otherwise it's like now I want to do otherwise it's like now I want to do this, now I want to do this, now I want this, now I want to do this, now I want this, now I want to do this, now I want to do this, now I want to do this. It to do this, now I want to do this. It to do this, now I want to do this. It it's for this kind of project, it wants it's for this kind of project, it wants it's for this kind of project, it wants to do a shell of shells commands and to do a shell of shells commands and to do a shell of shells commands and those are uh by default approved. those are uh by default approved. those are uh by default approved. Uh, so I I turn that on, but it's still Uh, so I I turn that on, but it's still Uh, so I I turn that on, but it's still um wants to ask me to do things and it's um wants to ask me to do things and it's um wants to ask me to do things and it's and it's while it's solving that task, and it's while it's solving that task, and it's while it's solving that task, it's like, let me go check out this, let it's like, let me go check out this, let it's like, let me go check out this, let me go check out that, let me try this, me go check out that, let me try this, me go check out that, let me try this, let me try like 50 million things and let me try like 50 million things and let me try like 50 million things and then it'll be like, okay, fixed it, done then it'll be like, okay, fixed it, done then it'll be like, okay, fixed it, done tasks, you know, and then I'm like I try tasks, you know, and then I'm like I try tasks, you know, and then I'm like I try to play with it and of course it might to play with it and of course it might to play with it and of course it might not have fixed it. And so I like I've not have fixed it. And so I like I've not have fixed it. And so I like I've told it to write tests for everything it told it to write tests for everything it told it to write tests for everything it does and even tell tell it after a while

does and even tell tell it after a while does and even tell tell it after a while because it'll break fix something and because it'll break fix something and because it'll break fix something and then regress something else and the then regress something else and the then regress something else and the tests won't cover that and then I mean tests won't cover that and then I mean tests won't cover that and then I mean it's just been a lot of babysitting. So it's just been a lot of babysitting. So it's just been a lot of babysitting. So yeah, I didn't type any code but I yeah, I didn't type any code but I yeah, I didn't type any code but I babysat the crap out of it and it took babysat the crap out of it and it took babysat the crap out of it and it took you and if I summed up all the time that you and if I summed up all the time that you and if I summed up all the time that I spent all looking at it and trying to I spent all looking at it and trying to I spent all looking at it and trying to understand what it's doing and testing understand what it's doing and testing understand what it's doing and testing it's probably a few hours. H it's probably a few hours. H it's probably a few hours. H I uh let me show you this thing that I I uh let me show you this thing that I I uh let me show you this thing that I did which is not as cool but still fun. did which is not as cool but still fun. did which is not as cool but still fun. So, the context was this fella here put So, the context was this fella here put So, the context was this fella here put up a really nice study guide up a really nice study guide up a really nice study guide on uh LLM interview questions and it's on uh LLM interview questions and it's on uh LLM interview questions and it's you know it's very kind of latexy you know it's very kind of latexy you know it's very kind of latexy and it's like 12 pages long and it's like 12 pages long and it's like 12 pages long and it starts at basic stuff like what's and it starts at basic stuff like what's and it starts at basic stuff like what's in but then in but then in but then yeah little little trivia computer yeah little little trivia computer yeah little little trivia computer science history trivia you know who science history trivia you know who science history trivia you know who invented latex who created it invented latex who created it invented latex who created it I don't remember the guy's name what who I don't remember the guy's name what who I don't remember the guy's name what who Leslie Lamport Leslie Lamport Leslie Lamport Oh yeah, I talked to Leslie. I had him Oh yeah, I talked to Leslie. I had him Oh yeah, I talked to Leslie. I had him on the podcast.

on the podcast. on the podcast. You know what else he did? You know what else he did? You know what else he did? Oh lord. What else did Leslie do? Oh lord. What else did Leslie do? Oh lord. What else did Leslie do? He came up with uh he basically he came He came up with uh he basically he came He came up with uh he basically he came up with concurrency algorithms and up with concurrency algorithms and up with concurrency algorithms and Paxos. It's not Pax uh the Paxus. Um Paxos. It's not Pax uh the Paxus. Um Paxos. It's not Pax uh the Paxus. Um just uh yeah, Paxus. He came up with um just uh yeah, Paxus. He came up with um just uh yeah, Paxus. He came up with um distributed concurrency distributed concurrency distributed concurrency and the concept of logical clocks for and the concept of logical clocks for and the concept of logical clocks for partial ordering and distributed partial ordering and distributed partial ordering and distributed systems. systems. systems. Yeah. like really is a monster impact on Yeah. like really is a monster impact on Yeah. like really is a monster impact on computer science and computer science and computer science and he worked at Microsoft till he retired a he worked at Microsoft till he retired a he worked at Microsoft till he retired a couple months ago. A few months ago. couple months ago. A few months ago. couple months ago. A few months ago. Yeah. Yeah. I talked to him in 2021. Uh Yeah. Yeah. I talked to him in 2021. Uh Yeah. Yeah. I talked to him in 2021. Uh super nice guy. We talked all about a super nice guy. We talked all about a super nice guy. We talked all about a bunch of stuff and uh there you go. The bunch of stuff and uh there you go. The bunch of stuff and uh there you go. The developer of Latex. developer of Latex. developer of Latex. That is a good trivia. That is a good trivia. That is a good trivia. So it's actually So it's actually So it's actually latte. My bad. latte. My bad. latte. My bad. Yeah. So, um, this is like a, uh, oops, Yeah. So, um, this is like a, uh, oops, Yeah. So, um, this is like a, uh, oops, that's my expense report. Um, this is I that's my expense report. Um, this is I that's my expense report. Um, this is I don't want to where did I where? So, um, don't want to where did I where? So, um, don't want to where did I where? So, um, so you have a question, for example, so you have a question, for example, so you have a question, for example, we'll just say like, what is generative we'll just say like, what is generative we'll just say like, what is generative versus discriminative models? Like versus discriminative models? Like versus discriminative models? Like question number 19. And he puts a little question number 19. And he puts a little question number 19. And he puts a little thing here, but I I don't want that. I thing here, but I I don't want that. I thing here, but I I don't want that. I don't want a one paragraph essay. I want don't want a one paragraph essay. I want don't want a one paragraph essay. I want study material. I want meat.

study material. I want meat. study material. I want meat. So, I built a website that tore apart So, I built a website that tore apart So, I built a website that tore apart his PDF his PDF his PDF and then h I put in his answer. How and then h I put in his answer. How and then h I put in his answer. How Hong, great guy. I put in an AI answer. Hong, great guy. I put in an AI answer. Hong, great guy. I put in an AI answer. I put in definitions. Now, what I don't I put in definitions. Now, what I don't I put in definitions. Now, what I don't have yet is a latte uh equation have yet is a latte uh equation have yet is a latte uh equation generator. So, I need to go and update generator. So, I need to go and update generator. So, I need to go and update my rendering. But then I put in, my rendering. But then I put in, my rendering. But then I put in, you know, comparisons. I put in um you know, comparisons. I put in um you know, comparisons. I put in um resources research and then you can resources research and then you can resources research and then you can check these and then as you check them check these and then as you check them check these and then as you check them because you've done the work your study because you've done the work your study because you've done the work your study progress gets updated down here. progress gets updated down here. progress gets updated down here. That's very cool. So how much code That's very cool. So how much code That's very cool. So how much code how much how much how much that was all done in clawed code. that was all done in clawed code. that was all done in clawed code. Wow. Wow. Wow. So the idea is I'm going to try it in So the idea is I'm going to try it in So the idea is I'm going to try it in agent mode with the different models and agent mode with the different models and agent mode with the different models and I'm going to vibe it maybe three times. I'm going to vibe it maybe three times. I'm going to vibe it maybe three times. Right. This took about an hour and a Right. This took about an hour and a Right. This took about an hour and a half, two hours. So I'm going to do I half, two hours. So I'm going to do I half, two hours. So I'm going to do I have a problem that is nice and clean have a problem that is nice and clean have a problem that is nice and clean and complicated that is a do a thing and and complicated that is a do a thing and and complicated that is a do a thing and do it end times and then deal with all do it end times and then deal with all do it end times and then deal with all of the edge cases of the edge cases of the edge cases and then see what it comes up with and and then see what it comes up with and and then see what it comes up with and see which one you know works see which one you know works see which one you know works and uh you know chain of thought here's and uh you know chain of thought here's and uh you know chain of thought here's the and then also the important thing the and then also the important thing the and then also the important thing was was was sorry go ahead sorry go ahead sorry go ahead it's amazing like what you can do it's amazing like what you can do it's amazing like what you can do it is cool the the hardest part was it is cool the the hardest part was it is cool the the hardest part was validating each one of these and making validating each one of these and making validating each one of these and making sure that these are all uh ive it's you sure that these are all uh ive it's you sure that these are all uh ive it's you know legitimate links cuz I didn't want know legitimate links cuz I didn't want know legitimate links cuz I didn't want it to hallucinate any of the citations.

it to hallucinate any of the citations. it to hallucinate any of the citations. How do you pronounce it? How do you pronounce it? How do you pronounce it? Archive. Archive. Archive. Archive. Archive. Archive. Archive. Archive. Archive. So this word here So this word here So this word here h i e. It's an archive of papers. h i e. It's an archive of papers. h i e. It's an archive of papers. Okay. So make sure I understand this. Okay. So make sure I understand this. Okay. So make sure I understand this. Yep. Yep. Yep. So So So this this this is pronounced that. Yep. And this is pronounced that. Yep. And this is pronounced that. Yep. And this is pronounced is pronounced is pronounced latte. latte. latte. Correct. Correct. Correct. Okay. Makes total sense. Okay. Makes total sense. Okay. Makes total sense. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's obvious. I feel like a Yeah. It's obvious. I feel like a Yeah. It's obvious. I feel like a schmuck. schmuck. schmuck. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um Um Um I know you do actually. I know you do actually. I know you do actually. No, I know. I And appreciate not only No, I know. I And appreciate not only No, I know. I And appreciate not only did you call me out on it, but now we did you call me out on it, but now we did you call me out on it, but now we recorded it. So now I feel like a recorded it. So now I feel like a recorded it. So now I feel like a schmuck schmuck schmuck forever with a link. forever with a link. forever with a link. We don't have to air. We don't have to air. We don't have to air. We don't have to air this link to my We don't have to air this link to my We don't have to air this link to my link to my schmuckery. No, I don't care. link to my schmuckery. No, I don't care. link to my schmuckery. No, I don't care. People, this is a great point. We had a People, this is a great point. We had a People, this is a great point. We had a conversation about this at um uh at this conversation about this at um uh at this conversation about this at um uh at this at this this ERG I went to yesterday at this this ERG I went to yesterday at this this ERG I went to yesterday about when do you feel at a certain about when do you feel at a certain about when do you feel at a certain point in your career that you can point in your career that you can point in your career that you can mispronounce a thing or misunderstand a mispronounce a thing or misunderstand a mispronounce a thing or misunderstand a a threeletter acronym and just own it a threeletter acronym and just own it a threeletter acronym and just own it versus feeling like someone's going to versus feeling like someone's going to versus feeling like someone's going to flip the bozo bit on you. Now, you flip the bozo bit on you. Now, you flip the bozo bit on you. Now, you flipped the bozo bit on me years ago, so flipped the bozo bit on me years ago, so flipped the bozo bit on me years ago, so there's really nothing I can do to save there's really nothing I can do to save there's really nothing I can do to save money. You have nothing to lose, money. You have nothing to lose, money. You have nothing to lose, right? At this point, it's pretty much right? At this point, it's pretty much right? At this point, it's pretty much over. But, um, yeah, like what do you over. But, um, yeah, like what do you over. But, um, yeah, like what do you do? Have you ever been in a meeting, do? Have you ever been in a meeting, do? Have you ever been in a meeting, even at your level, and said a thing even at your level, and said a thing even at your level, and said a thing like a three and just like you didn't like a three and just like you didn't like a three and just like you didn't know what that code name was? Like, what know what that code name was? Like, what know what that code name was? Like, what do you like in a meeting where I'm like, do you like in a meeting where I'm like, do you like in a meeting where I'm like, people are talking about something and I

people are talking about something and I people are talking about something and I don't know what it is. I feel like I don't know what it is. I feel like I don't know what it is. I feel like I should probably. So, if I ask about it, should probably. So, if I ask about it, should probably. So, if I ask about it, people might go, "What the hell?" But, people might go, "What the hell?" But, people might go, "What the hell?" But, you know, I'm at the point in my career you know, I'm at the point in my career you know, I'm at the point in my career just like, "No, I'm going to do it." And just like, "No, I'm going to do it." And just like, "No, I'm going to do it." And often times somebody else will be like, often times somebody else will be like, often times somebody else will be like, "Yeah, what is that?" And I'm like, "Oh, "Yeah, what is that?" And I'm like, "Oh, "Yeah, what is that?" And I'm like, "Oh, I was the one that was bold enough to I was the one that was bold enough to I was the one that was bold enough to represent the people that didn't know." represent the people that didn't know." represent the people that didn't know." And And And yep, yep, yep, I think that's important. People will I think that's important. People will I think that's important. People will text will teams me afterwards and be text will teams me afterwards and be text will teams me afterwards and be like, "Thank you for asking what that like, "Thank you for asking what that like, "Thank you for asking what that was. I didn't know what project fufu was. I didn't know what project fufu was. I didn't know what project fufu was. Everyone else knew Project Fufu and was. Everyone else knew Project Fufu and was. Everyone else knew Project Fufu and read the Fufu paper, but I read the Fufu paper, but I read the Fufu paper, but I Oh, so get speaking of fufu projects and Oh, so get speaking of fufu projects and Oh, so get speaking of fufu projects and make and not knowing what it is. Uh, I make and not knowing what it is. Uh, I make and not knowing what it is. Uh, I was like, let me see how um M365 Copilot was like, let me see how um M365 Copilot was like, let me see how um M365 Copilot does when I give it when I have a a does when I give it when I have a a does when I give it when I have a a email in my inbox that references a email in my inbox that references a email in my inbox that references a project that doesn't exist and I ask it project that doesn't exist and I ask it project that doesn't exist and I ask it and you know what happens? It makes up and you know what happens? It makes up and you know what happens? It makes up the the the completely makes everything up like completely makes everything up like completely makes everything up like because it's grounded in what it thinks because it's grounded in what it thinks because it's grounded in what it thinks is reality which is your is reality which is your is reality which is your I heard the research mode and it's like I heard the research mode and it's like I heard the research mode and it's like uh this project and I mean I show you uh this project and I mean I show you uh this project and I mean I show you the transcript. It's like pages and the transcript. It's like pages and the transcript. It's like pages and pages of dates, milestones, pages of dates, milestones, pages of dates, milestones, integrations, team structure, and then integrations, team structure, and then integrations, team structure, and then I'm like well who's in the project? And I'm like well who's in the project? And I'm like well who's in the project? And then it goes off and think well and then it goes off and think well and then it goes off and think well and actually let me back up cuz in the chain actually let me back up cuz in the chain actually let me back up cuz in the chain of thought you can see it going um I've of thought you can see it going um I've of thought you can see it going um I've done a whole lot of searching. I can't done a whole lot of searching. I can't done a whole lot of searching. I can't find anything about this project. I find anything about this project. I find anything about this project. I think the right thing to do is to admit think the right thing to do is to admit think the right thing to do is to admit that.

that. that. But then what would a project like this But then what would a project like this But then what would a project like this be structured like and then it goes off be structured like and then it goes off be structured like and then it goes off and then from there it just makes the and then from there it just makes the and then from there it just makes the whole thing up and it whole thing up and it whole thing up and it and this is where and this is where and this is where is it grounded? is it grounded? is it grounded? Is it grounded in fact or is it a improv Is it grounded in fact or is it a improv Is it grounded in fact or is it a improv partner and that's why it's so important partner and that's why it's so important partner and that's why it's so important to stay grounded. I know the the PM who to stay grounded. I know the the PM who to stay grounded. I know the the PM who owns 365 co-pilot so I can introduce you owns 365 co-pilot so I can introduce you owns 365 co-pilot so I can introduce you to her if you don't already know them. to her if you don't already know them. to her if you don't already know them. Well, I pissed it. I gave this to the AI Well, I pissed it. I gave this to the AI Well, I pissed it. I gave this to the AI red team chat and I think this they're red team chat and I think this they're red team chat and I think this they're in there, but I'm like in there, but I'm like in there, but I'm like uh anyway, yeah, projects that was a uh anyway, yeah, projects that was a uh anyway, yeah, projects that was a little digression off little digression off little digression off project. It's very very tented. project. It's very very tented. project. It's very very tented. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, nobody knows about nobody knows about nobody knows about the level of detail they came up with the level of detail they came up with the level of detail they came up with for this thing. for this thing. for this thing. I'm by the way, this this project that I'm by the way, this this project that I'm by the way, this this project that doesn't exist, doesn't exist, doesn't exist, deputy sito for project fufu. Now, now deputy sito for project fufu. Now, now deputy sito for project fufu. Now, now what's going to happen is someone is what's going to happen is someone is what's going to happen is someone is going to go and this will be on the net going to go and this will be on the net going to go and this will be on the net and then they're going to turn into a and then they're going to turn into a and then they're going to turn into a transcript and this is going to be on transcript and this is going to be on transcript and this is going to be on the vergeman the vergeman the vergeman orich go and leak Microsoft secret orich go and leak Microsoft secret orich go and leak Microsoft secret fufufu uh project fufufu uh project fufufu uh project because some AI will come across it and because some AI will come across it and because some AI will come across it and go, "Oh, they're talking about a secret go, "Oh, they're talking about a secret go, "Oh, they're talking about a secret project."

project." project." Oh, yeah. And you know it's going to be Oh, yeah. And you know it's going to be Oh, yeah. And you know it's going to be a direct uh com direct compete to uh a direct uh com direct compete to uh a direct uh com direct compete to uh glass whatever they're doing liquid glass whatever they're doing liquid glass whatever they're doing liquid glass. Have you seen that in glass. Have you seen that in glass. Have you seen that in See how bothered you are by that? You're See how bothered you are by that? You're See how bothered you are by that? You're so annoyed. so annoyed. so annoyed. I'm pretty bothered by liquid glass. I'm I'm pretty bothered by liquid glass. I'm I'm pretty bothered by liquid glass. I'm just feeling just feeling just feeling it's like you're like your new mission it's like you're like your new mission it's like you're like your new mission in life is make it clear that this is in life is make it clear that this is in life is make it clear that this is not new. Arrow invented this. Apple's not new. Arrow invented this. Apple's not new. Arrow invented this. Apple's just copying. You know what? It just copying. You know what? It just copying. You know what? It shouldn't get all this credit. shouldn't get all this credit. shouldn't get all this credit. I don't want to make it clear. I want to I don't want to make it clear. I want to I don't want to make it clear. I want to make it liquid glass. I uh I just I it's make it liquid glass. I uh I just I it's make it liquid glass. I uh I just I it's it's fine. It's not It's It's got a lot it's fine. It's not It's It's got a lot it's fine. It's not It's It's got a lot of animations. I think the question is, of animations. I think the question is, of animations. I think the question is, do I really want hardware shaders do I really want hardware shaders do I really want hardware shaders working that hard on my computer? working that hard on my computer? working that hard on my computer? You see the reflections as you move You see the reflections as you move You see the reflections as you move things around? things around? things around? Yeah. And then if they if two buttons Yeah. And then if they if two buttons Yeah. And then if they if two buttons get near each other, they kind of like get near each other, they kind of like get near each other, they kind of like do the liquid thing. I mean, it's it's do the liquid thing. I mean, it's it's do the liquid thing. I mean, it's it's hardware shaders, hardware shaders, hardware shaders, which we know how to vibe actually. which we know how to vibe actually. which we know how to vibe actually. Um, but people are like reporting their Um, but people are like reporting their Um, but people are like reporting their phones getting hot, so it's just like, phones getting hot, so it's just like, phones getting hot, so it's just like, how much how much how much extraneous stuff do I want? I don't extraneous stuff do I want? I don't extraneous stuff do I want? I don't know. I think I'm kind of a minimalist. know. I think I'm kind of a minimalist. know. I think I'm kind of a minimalist. Uh, I'm not a Windows phone apologist, Uh, I'm not a Windows phone apologist, Uh, I'm not a Windows phone apologist, but I did Windows phone. but I did Windows phone. but I did Windows phone. By the way, you and I have been in the By the way, you and I have been in the By the way, you and I have been in the tech industry enough to see these tech industry enough to see these tech industry enough to see these cycles. First, it goes from very cycles. First, it goes from very cycles. First, it goes from very minimalist to let's add bells and minimalist to let's add bells and minimalist to let's add bells and whistles. Let's add edges. Let's add whistles. Let's add edges. Let's add whistles. Let's add edges. Let's add shadows. Let's add oh, clear this. Let's shadows. Let's add oh, clear this. Let's shadows. Let's add oh, clear this. Let's add lots of colors. And let's add add lots of colors. And let's add add lots of colors. And let's add animations. And then it goes back to you animations. And then it goes back to you animations. And then it goes back to you know what? No, we're going to reset and know what? No, we're going to reset and know what? No, we're going to reset and do something simple.

do something simple. do something simple. And this is what with Windows 8. You And this is what with Windows 8. You And this is what with Windows 8. You remember like in Windows Phone with the remember like in Windows Phone with the remember like in Windows Phone with the very simple things very simple things very simple things and then it's everything is one. Nope. and then it's everything is one. Nope. and then it's everything is one. Nope. It's monochromatic. It's monochromatic. It's monochromatic. Very thin lines for everything represent Very thin lines for everything represent Very thin lines for everything represent representing icons. And then it what representing icons. And then it what representing icons. And then it what people are like, no, you know what? people are like, no, you know what? people are like, no, you know what? That's not rich enough to really show That's not rich enough to really show That's not rich enough to really show what we want. We need to add some color what we want. We need to add some color what we want. We need to add some color back. Oh, you know what? We need to add back. Oh, you know what? We need to add back. Oh, you know what? We need to add some icons that actually have like some icons that actually have like some icons that actually have like graphical elements to them. Oh, we need graphical elements to them. Oh, we need graphical elements to them. Oh, we need to add shade shade or you know shade to add shade shade or you know shade to add shade shade or you know shade shadows on the things. We need to And so shadows on the things. We need to And so shadows on the things. We need to And so here we go. We're back into let's make here we go. We're back into let's make here we go. We're back into let's make things really fancy and whisbangy and things really fancy and whisbangy and things really fancy and whisbangy and rich and colorful. And then few years rich and colorful. And then few years rich and colorful. And then few years from now we'll be like, wait, wait, from now we'll be like, wait, wait, from now we'll be like, wait, wait, wait, wait, new aesthetic, wait, wait, new aesthetic, wait, wait, new aesthetic, really simple. really simple. really simple. You remember when the iPhone 3 came out You remember when the iPhone 3 came out You remember when the iPhone 3 came out and it was like there was a bookshelf. and it was like there was a bookshelf. and it was like there was a bookshelf. It was a skeworphic It was a skeworphic It was a skeworphic literal wooden bookshelf that you would literal wooden bookshelf that you would literal wooden bookshelf that you would put ebooks on. Like it had grain. It had put ebooks on. Like it had grain. It had put ebooks on. Like it had grain. It had a 3D thing. It looked It was like a 3D thing. It looked It was like a 3D thing. It looked It was like Microsoft Bob. Microsoft Bob. Microsoft Bob. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But on your phone.

But on your phone. But on your phone. Um I I don't know, man. I just want to Um I I don't know, man. I just want to Um I I don't know, man. I just want to have flexibility and choice. But the I I have flexibility and choice. But the I I have flexibility and choice. But the I I I'm concerned that there's just no value I'm concerned that there's just no value I'm concerned that there's just no value in this liquid glass thing other than in this liquid glass thing other than in this liquid glass thing other than burning. burning. burning. It's different. It's different. It's different. I don't And it burns GPU. I don't And it burns GPU. I don't And it burns GPU. I think that's what it is. It's like, I think that's what it is. It's like, I think that's what it is. It's like, you know, give it a fresh look. You got you know, give it a fresh look. You got you know, give it a fresh look. You got to give it a fresh things a fresh look to give it a fresh things a fresh look to give it a fresh things a fresh look every now and then because it perception every now and then because it perception every now and then because it perception to it. It's like it if they can have new to it. It's like it if they can have new to it. It's like it if they can have new features in it, but if without the look, features in it, but if without the look, features in it, but if without the look, people think, "Oh, it's just the same people think, "Oh, it's just the same people think, "Oh, it's just the same thing now." thing now." thing now." But there are design things and people But there are design things and people But there are design things and people are like, "This is brand new." are like, "This is brand new." are like, "This is brand new." Yeah. There are design things that come Yeah. There are design things that come Yeah. There are design things that come out that are new thoughts like the out that are new thoughts like the out that are new thoughts like the dynamic island which is a hack but a dynamic island which is a hack but a dynamic island which is a hack but a genius one where it's like we have a genius one where it's like we have a genius one where it's like we have a circle at the top here we can't do circle at the top here we can't do circle at the top here we can't do anything about today anything about today anything about today because we have a camera there but we because we have a camera there but we because we have a camera there but we can put stuff around there and make it can put stuff around there and make it can put stuff around there and make it feel juicy. So like if I charge my car feel juicy. So like if I charge my car feel juicy. So like if I charge my car the little the little the little dynamic island jumps up into the corner dynamic island jumps up into the corner dynamic island jumps up into the corner there and it gives me status. If I'm on there and it gives me status. If I'm on there and it gives me status. If I'm on an airplane, if I use like uh Flighty, an airplane, if I use like uh Flighty, an airplane, if I use like uh Flighty, which is the best.

which is the best. which is the best. If you're if you're playing Spotify in If you're if you're playing Spotify in If you're if you're playing Spotify in the background, it'll the background, it'll the background, it'll love that stuff. Like that seems useful love that stuff. Like that seems useful love that stuff. Like that seems useful and that seems like a new and and that seems like a new and and that seems like a new and interesting kind of user interface. But interesting kind of user interface. But interesting kind of user interface. But uh I don't know, maybe I'm not a I don't uh I don't know, maybe I'm not a I don't uh I don't know, maybe I'm not a I don't know. But the problem is when you work know. But the problem is when you work know. But the problem is when you work for a company like Microsoft, people for a company like Microsoft, people for a company like Microsoft, people assume that your opinion is rooted in assume that your opinion is rooted in assume that your opinion is rooted in some Microsoft ism. But I I I didn't some Microsoft ism. But I I I didn't some Microsoft ism. But I I I didn't work here always. I remember what it was work here always. I remember what it was work here always. I remember what it was like to not work here. I will not work like to not work here. I will not work like to not work here. I will not work here in the future. my opinion is here in the future. my opinion is here in the future. my opinion is spanning many years that do not spanning many years that do not spanning many years that do not necessarily uh are not necessarily necessarily uh are not necessarily necessarily uh are not necessarily informed by Microsoft's design language. informed by Microsoft's design language. informed by Microsoft's design language. Uh so like yeah, Windows Arrow did that Uh so like yeah, Windows Arrow did that Uh so like yeah, Windows Arrow did that uh without the animation stuff, but it's uh without the animation stuff, but it's uh without the animation stuff, but it's not about that. There were glass UIs not about that. There were glass UIs not about that. There were glass UIs before even Windows. I'm not a Windows before even Windows. I'm not a Windows before even Windows. I'm not a Windows apologist in that context. apologist in that context. apologist in that context. The other thing that's interesting is The other thing that's interesting is The other thing that's interesting is the Have you noticed that all websites the Have you noticed that all websites the Have you noticed that all websites now look basically the same? It's like now look basically the same? It's like now look basically the same? It's like dark mode, blues and purples, maybe a dark mode, blues and purples, maybe a dark mode, blues and purples, maybe a little orange because we're a little little orange because we're a little little orange because we're a little spicy. And it's like blue, orange, and spicy. And it's like blue, orange, and spicy. And it's like blue, orange, and purple. And that's just the aesthetic purple. And that's just the aesthetic purple. And that's just the aesthetic that the web has right now. And the that the web has right now. And the that the web has right now. And the whole web is moved.

whole web is moved. whole web is moved. It's kind of progressive scroll, It's kind of progressive scroll, It's kind of progressive scroll, vertical scroll. Everything is vertical. vertical scroll. Everything is vertical. vertical scroll. Everything is vertical. And then you scroll and things kind of And then you scroll and things kind of And then you scroll and things kind of animate to get bigger as you get near animate to get bigger as you get near animate to get bigger as you get near them. And them. And them. And right, that's called scrolljacking. They right, that's called scrolljacking. They right, that's called scrolljacking. They grab the scroller and then you don't get grab the scroller and then you don't get grab the scroller and then you don't get to see that. Sorry, New York Times. Keep to see that. Sorry, New York Times. Keep to see that. Sorry, New York Times. Keep scrolling. We're going to build. We're scrolling. We're going to build. We're scrolling. We're going to build. We're making your wheel movement. making your wheel movement. making your wheel movement. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Build up the animation. I Build up the animation. I Build up the animation. I actually kind of like it. But actually kind of like it. But actually kind of like it. But yeah, scroll scrolljacking is okay if it yeah, scroll scrolljacking is okay if it yeah, scroll scrolljacking is okay if it provides value. I think the New York provides value. I think the New York provides value. I think the New York Times and the stuff like D3JS, those Times and the stuff like D3JS, those Times and the stuff like D3JS, those really cool visualizers like really cool visualizers like really cool visualizers like the Edward Tuy++, the Edward Tuy++, the Edward Tuy++, if you've ever read his book on the uh if you've ever read his book on the uh if you've ever read his book on the uh you know quantitative display of of you know quantitative display of of you know quantitative display of of information, those things I think are information, those things I think are information, those things I think are really really powerful. But when we're really really powerful. But when we're really really powerful. But when we're talking about vibing like this basically talking about vibing like this basically talking about vibing like this basically vied bootstrap site, you know, like vied bootstrap site, you know, like vied bootstrap site, you know, like there's so much of this kind of like there's so much of this kind of like there's so much of this kind of like left rail tree. left rail tree. left rail tree. What else? There's no creativity there. What else? There's no creativity there. What else? There's no creativity there. It's just um It's just um It's just um Yeah, that's why it's the perfect Yeah, that's why it's the perfect Yeah, that's why it's the perfect project to vod.

project to vod. project to vod. Why? Why do you say that? Why? Why do you say that? Why? Why do you say that? Because there's so many examples out on Because there's so many examples out on Because there's so many examples out on the web of that very type of the web of that very type of the web of that very type of Oh, Oh, Oh, so many. so many. so many. Okay. So, that's that's a great point. Okay. So, that's that's a great point. Okay. So, that's that's a great point. So, So, So, it's not that complicated either, it's not that complicated either, it's not that complicated either, right? It's not that complicated. But right? It's not that complicated. But right? It's not that complicated. But what happens when everything becomes a what happens when everything becomes a what happens when everything becomes a statistical just mediocrity. statistical just mediocrity. statistical just mediocrity. We're going to need to do bespoke We're going to need to do bespoke We're going to need to do bespoke interesting work does not involve vibing interesting work does not involve vibing interesting work does not involve vibing in order to break new ground because in order to break new ground because in order to break new ground because right now we're just sitting on top of right now we're just sitting on top of right now we're just sitting on top of the the fat part of the normal the the the fat part of the normal the the the fat part of the normal the normal distribution. normal distribution. normal distribution. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. By the way, uh All right. You want to do By the way, uh All right. You want to do By the way, uh All right. You want to do the episode? the episode? the episode? I think this is the This has been 24 I think this is the This has been 24 I think this is the This has been 24 minutes of you of you talking. minutes of you of you talking. minutes of you of you talking. Mostly you mostly you Mostly you mostly you Mostly you mostly you actually I do Hey, here's a project for actually I do Hey, here's a project for actually I do Hey, here's a project for a to to vibe a to to vibe a to to vibe something he does and looks at all our something he does and looks at all our something he does and looks at all our podcasts podcasts podcasts just audio and then adds up the number just audio and then adds up the number just audio and then adds up the number of minutes you talk versus I talk. Do you think we should do that right Do you think we should do that right now? We should do that in the next now? We should do that in the next now? We should do that in the next episode.

episode. episode. How long do you think that one takes? How long do you think that one takes? How long do you think that one takes? I think we could do that in 30 minutes I think we could do that in 30 minutes I think we could do that in 30 minutes because all you need to do is get the because all you need to do is get the because all you need to do is get the RSS, loop over the things, bring them RSS, loop over the things, bring them RSS, loop over the things, bring them down, transcribe them, identify down, transcribe them, identify down, transcribe them, identify speakers, and then build a chart, and speakers, and then build a chart, and speakers, and then build a chart, and then as you scroll, we have to have then as you scroll, we have to have then as you scroll, we have to have scrolljacking. scrolljacking. scrolljacking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As you go down episode one, episode two, As you go down episode one, episode two, As you go down episode one, episode two, you can see the competing of who's you can see the competing of who's you can see the competing of who's gapping more. gapping more. gapping more. You're even more ambitious than I was to You're even more ambitious than I was to You're even more ambitious than I was to be, but be, but be, but if we're going to do it, we got to Oh, yeah. That's a really good idea. We Oh, yeah. That's a really good idea. We could just do a command line in Rust. could just do a command line in Rust. could just do a command line in Rust. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Count of lines. Count of lines. Count of lines. Does the language matter if we're not Does the language matter if we're not Does the language matter if we're not coding any of it? coding any of it? coding any of it? Although, what if you Although, what if you Although, what if you Mark's CD? I did make it do Rust. I'm Mark's CD? I did make it do Rust. I'm Mark's CD? I did make it do Rust. I'm like, you're going to do this in Rust. like, you're going to do this in Rust. like, you're going to do this in Rust. Okay. What if you ask the the agent, I Okay. What if you ask the the agent, I Okay. What if you ask the the agent, I want to do this project, and you tell it want to do this project, and you tell it want to do this project, and you tell it explicitly, explicitly, explicitly, don't tell me uh what language you're don't tell me uh what language you're don't tell me uh what language you're going to use and consciously go out of going to use and consciously go out of going to use and consciously go out of your way to hide the implementation from your way to hide the implementation from your way to hide the implementation from me.

me. me. But you AIDS, But you AIDS, But you AIDS, what's that? what's that? what's that? You're going to see it making files with You're going to see it making files with You're going to see it making files with extensions and compiling. Oh, but you extensions and compiling. Oh, but you extensions and compiling. Oh, but you got you have to tell it like you you'd got you have to tell it like you you'd got you have to tell it like you you'd have to basically have it hide it cuz have to basically have it hide it cuz have to basically have it hide it cuz then the question is when does the top then the question is when does the top then the question is when does the top level programming language become level programming language become level programming language become assembler become effectively a runtime assembler become effectively a runtime assembler become effectively a runtime that we don't think about? that we don't think about? that we don't think about? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And is that bad? And is that bad? And is that bad? Well, here's one of the questions that I Well, here's one of the questions that I Well, here's one of the questions that I get asked. I've I've had people ask me a get asked. I've I've had people ask me a get asked. I've I've had people ask me a few times and I few times and I few times and I kind of my head hurts thinking about it. kind of my head hurts thinking about it. kind of my head hurts thinking about it. They say, "Hey, um, we're having AI do They say, "Hey, um, we're having AI do They say, "Hey, um, we're having AI do this AI assisted coding and vibe coding this AI assisted coding and vibe coding this AI assisted coding and vibe coding using programming language programming using programming language programming using programming language programming programming languages designed for programming languages designed for programming languages designed for humans. humans. humans. What if What if What if Oh god, Oh god, Oh god, we let AI create a programming language we let AI create a programming language we let AI create a programming language that's more that's most optimal for AI. Does it have enough context? Cuz we're Does it have enough context? Cuz we're good at program. We're good at making good at program. We're good at making good at program. We're good at making programming languages from a from a programming languages from a from a programming languages from a from a computer from a from a human computer from a from a human computer from a from a human perspective.

perspective. perspective. Well, I I in thinking about that, I'm Well, I I in thinking about that, I'm Well, I I in thinking about that, I'm like, well, like, well, like, well, what what what what what what kind of programming languages would let kind of programming languages would let kind of programming languages would let the EI be more efficient than the the EI be more efficient than the the EI be more efficient than the existing ones? Cuz the you know, existing ones? Cuz the you know, existing ones? Cuz the you know, actually, if you take a look at actually, if you take a look at actually, if you take a look at programming languages, programming languages, programming languages, you they're all turning complete. You you they're all turning complete. You you they're all turning complete. You can do anything in just about anything can do anything in just about anything can do anything in just about anything in every in any of these popular in every in any of these popular in every in any of these popular languages. languages. languages. Right. So they're all basically Right. So they're all basically Right. So they're all basically equivalence class, you know, equivalence equivalence class, you know, equivalence equivalence class, you know, equivalence class. And class. And class. And the the the uh unless you got something like Rust, uh unless you got something like Rust, uh unless you got something like Rust, which forces you to do things a certain which forces you to do things a certain which forces you to do things a certain way, they're all it's just a matter of way, they're all it's just a matter of way, they're all it's just a matter of preference and ecosystem. Check this out. Are you even listening Check this out. Are you even listening to me? to me? to me? No. I'm trying to figure out which one No. I'm trying to figure out which one No. I'm trying to figure out which one of us talks the most. of us talks the most. of us talks the most. It does. It does. It does. Did you already vive cut it? You're Did you already vive cut it? You're Did you already vive cut it? You're done. done. done. I'm doing it now.