The Boring Edition with Shopify's Glen Coates

hi I'm Scott Hanselman this is another hi I'm Scott Hanselman this is another episode of hansome minutes today I'm episode of hansome minutes today I'm episode of hansome minutes today I'm chatting with Glenn coats VP of product chatting with Glenn coats VP of product chatting with Glenn coats VP of product at Shopify how are you sir I'm doing at Shopify how are you sir I'm doing at Shopify how are you sir I'm doing great how are you doing I'm doing great how are you doing I'm doing great how are you doing I'm doing fantastic I'm talking to you and I'm fantastic I'm talking to you and I'm fantastic I'm talking to you and I'm going to learn all about what's going on going to learn all about what's going on going to learn all about what's going on in Shopify uh we were actually talking a in Shopify uh we were actually talking a in Shopify uh we were actually talking a little bit at the beginning and then I little bit at the beginning and then I little bit at the beginning and then I realized that we should just hit record realized that we should just hit record realized that we should just hit record because you were going to tell me about because you were going to tell me about because you were going to tell me about when you started uh your first when you started uh your first when you started uh your first engineering story there yeah well so engineering story there yeah well so engineering story there yeah well so Scott was pre-record telling me the Scott was pre-record telling me the Scott was pre-record telling me the story of this uh Bluetooth device that story of this uh Bluetooth device that story of this uh Bluetooth device that he's got on his body for reasons I'm he's got on his body for reasons I'm he's got on his body for reasons I'm sure he'll describe at his own at his sure he'll describe at his own at his sure he'll describe at his own at his own Leisure but encrypting the catching own Leisure but encrypting the catching own Leisure but encrypting the catching the the signal between two Bluetooth the the signal between two Bluetooth the the signal between two Bluetooth devices and it's going to be decrypted devices and it's going to be decrypted devices and it's going to be decrypted and he's playing cat and mouse with blah and he's playing cat and mouse with blah and he's playing cat and mouse with blah blah blah blah blah my first software blah blah blah blah my first software blah blah blah blah my first software engineering job was at a video game engineering job was at a video game engineering job was at a video game company in Sydney called Big World and I company in Sydney called Big World and I company in Sydney called Big World and I was I think one year out of University was I think one year out of University was I think one year out of University I'd spent a year dejing because I was I'd spent a year dejing because I was I'd spent a year dejing because I was still in denial that I was a nerd and I still in denial that I was a nerd and I still in denial that I was a nerd and I was trying to be cool but then I was trying to be cool but then I was trying to be cool but then I admitted it and then I went and got a admitted it and then I went and got a admitted it and then I went and got a software engineering job at a video software engineering job at a video software engineering job at a video games company and um there was a guy who games company and um there was a guy who games company and um there was a guy who worked there who had been at my high worked there who had been at my high worked there who had been at my high school like I think three or four years school like I think three or four years school like I think three or four years senior to me his name was John John D senior to me his name was John John D senior to me his name was John John D gash brilliant guy and I show up at this gash brilliant guy and I show up at this gash brilliant guy and I show up at this job and he's on Long service leave when job and he's on Long service leave when job and he's on Long service leave when I show up so I'm there for like four I show up so I'm there for like four I show up so I'm there for like four weeks and there's an empty desk with weeks and there's an empty desk with weeks and there's an empty desk with John's name on it I come he comes back John's name on it I come he comes back John's name on it I come he comes back and I'm like hey man and he's like oh and I'm like hey man and he's like oh and I'm like hey man and he's like oh yeah we went to high school together we yeah we went to high school together we yeah we went to high school together we we go for lunch the first day we're

we go for lunch the first day we're we go for lunch the first day we're walking up the street and he's like walking up the street and he's like walking up the street and he's like what' you do on the weekend and I'm like what' you do on the weekend and I'm like what' you do on the weekend and I'm like oh I went out and my friend's drinking I oh I went out and my friend's drinking I oh I went out and my friend's drinking I went surfing and blah blah blah blah went surfing and blah blah blah blah went surfing and blah blah blah blah blah a bunch of like young kids stuff blah a bunch of like young kids stuff blah a bunch of like young kids stuff and I was like what' you do on the and I was like what' you do on the and I was like what' you do on the weekend and he said oh and he pulls out weekend and he said oh and he pulls out weekend and he said oh and he pulls out this digital camera this is back in like this digital camera this is back in like this digital camera this is back in like 2003 or something pulls out a digital 2003 or something pulls out a digital 2003 or something pulls out a digital camera shows me in the back of it and camera shows me in the back of it and camera shows me in the back of it and it's a photo of a power MAAC G4 on its it's a photo of a power MAAC G4 on its it's a photo of a power MAAC G4 on its side with the case off and it's a TV side with the case off and it's a TV side with the case off and it's a TV tuner card with like alligator clips on tuner card with like alligator clips on tuner card with like alligator clips on it and I'm like what is that and he's it and I'm like what is that and he's it and I'm like what is that and he's like oh yeah um I'm reverse like oh yeah um I'm reverse like oh yeah um I'm reverse engineering this Hardware TV tuner card engineering this Hardware TV tuner card engineering this Hardware TV tuner card in software and I'm basically like in software and I'm basically like in software and I'm basically like reading all of the bit streams off the reading all of the bit streams off the reading all of the bit streams off the actual circuit board using alligator actual circuit board using alligator actual circuit board using alligator Eclipse to like reverse engineer this Eclipse to like reverse engineer this Eclipse to like reverse engineer this Hardware thing and I was just like I was Hardware thing and I was just like I was Hardware thing and I was just like I was like I'm in so much I'm I'm so in the like I'm in so much I'm I'm so in the like I'm in so much I'm I'm so in the deep end way more than I thought I was deep end way more than I thought I was deep end way more than I thought I was like if this is the guy who sits next to like if this is the guy who sits next to like if this is the guy who sits next to me at this job I'm a dead man like what me at this job I'm a dead man like what me at this job I'm a dead man like what what is what is what is happening but isn't that that's this happening but isn't that that's this happening but isn't that that's this that's is that energizing or is that that's is that energizing or is that that's is that energizing or is that demotivating because that's energizing demotivating because that's energizing demotivating because that's energizing for I it was energizing and I was like for I it was energizing and I was like for I it was energizing and I was like but I was like man I I better catch up but I was like man I I better catch up but I was like man I I better catch up quick like I got a lot of work to do quick like I got a lot of work to do quick like I got a lot of work to do yeah that's fantastic yeah the uh the yeah that's fantastic yeah the uh the yeah that's fantastic yeah the uh the the tool we're talking about about is the tool we're talking about about is the tool we're talking about about is the the Dexcom blood sugar meter that I the the Dexcom blood sugar meter that I the the Dexcom blood sugar meter that I used to manage my diabetes and uh the used to manage my diabetes and uh the used to manage my diabetes and uh the the folks went and you know reverse the folks went and you know reverse the folks went and you know reverse engineered the Blu tooth and doing that engineered the Blu tooth and doing that engineered the Blu tooth and doing that kind of fun stuff that's that's like the kind of fun stuff that's that's like the kind of fun stuff that's that's like the least boring thing I can think of doing least boring thing I can think of doing least boring thing I can think of doing like I I I've got over on my other i' on

like I I I've got over on my other i' on like I I I've got over on my other i' on my desk here you can't really see but my desk here you can't really see but my desk here you can't really see but I've got a um a kit that you can buy I've got a um a kit that you can buy I've got a um a kit that you can buy that is building an apple one like the that is building an apple one like the that is building an apple one like the original wnc Apple 1 from original parts original wnc Apple 1 from original parts original wnc Apple 1 from original parts and like building it out on a board and and like building it out on a board and and like building it out on a board and then flashing it with the original ROM then flashing it with the original ROM then flashing it with the original ROM like that kind of nerdery and like like that kind of nerdery and like like that kind of nerdery and like someone was like why are you doing that someone was like why are you doing that someone was like why are you doing that we have the cloud you know do it on a we have the cloud you know do it on a we have the cloud you know do it on a Raspberry Pi and I'm like no man you got Raspberry Pi and I'm like no man you got Raspberry Pi and I'm like no man you got to you got to do it to learn you got to to you got to do it to learn you got to to you got to do it to learn you got to learn how to do these things that's like learn how to do these things that's like learn how to do these things that's like the argument for like why play a musical the argument for like why play a musical the argument for like why play a musical instrument when you can just type a instrument when you can just type a instrument when you can just type a prompt into sunno It's like because it's prompt into sunno It's like because it's prompt into sunno It's like because it's fun okay see let's talk about that fun okay see let's talk about that fun okay see let's talk about that because like my son wants to be an because like my son wants to be an because like my son wants to be an artist and um people are saying you artist and um people are saying you artist and um people are saying you don't you don't want to go to school for don't you don't want to go to school for don't you don't want to go to school for art he just started University 8 weeks art he just started University 8 weeks art he just started University 8 weeks ago and he wants to do anime and the the ago and he wants to do anime and the the ago and he wants to do anime and the the haters are saying would you just type haters are saying would you just type haters are saying would you just type into into AI like the name of your anime into into AI like the name of your anime into into AI like the name of your anime it'll do the whole thing I'm like that it'll do the whole thing I'm like that it'll do the whole thing I'm like that just cheapens art do you know what's a just cheapens art do you know what's a just cheapens art do you know what's a good uh thing that I noticed in the last good uh thing that I noticed in the last good uh thing that I noticed in the last couple years uh on a whim I think I got couple years uh on a whim I think I got couple years uh on a whim I think I got Instagram targeted a couple years ago or Instagram targeted a couple years ago or Instagram targeted a couple years ago or maybe a year ago to buy one of those maybe a year ago to buy one of those maybe a year ago to buy one of those like like like Polaroid I like the new Polaroid I2 Polaroid I like the new Polaroid I2 Polaroid I like the new Polaroid I2 camera the one that's like just some camera the one that's like just some camera the one that's like just some Swedish company bought the rights and Swedish company bought the rights and Swedish company bought the rights and now they make Polaroid stuff again and now they make Polaroid stuff again and now they make Polaroid stuff again and the film for this camera is it's eight the film for this camera is it's eight the film for this camera is it's eight shots in a cartridge yep and each shots in a cartridge yep and each shots in a cartridge yep and each cartridge I think is 25 bucks so it's cartridge I think is 25 bucks so it's cartridge I think is 25 bucks so it's like three bucks a shot yeah right and like three bucks a shot yeah right and like three bucks a shot yeah right and everyone's like that thing's huge the everyone's like that thing's huge the everyone's like that thing's huge the photos come out mostly pretty terrible

photos come out mostly pretty terrible photos come out mostly pretty terrible you're not very good at holding a camera you're not very good at holding a camera you're not very good at holding a camera and I'm like right but I [ __ ] love and I'm like right but I [ __ ] love and I'm like right but I [ __ ] love these things every one of these things these things every one of these things these things every one of these things is such an important memory for me like is such an important memory for me like is such an important memory for me like I keep them I put them on the walls I I keep them I put them on the walls I I keep them I put them on the walls I spread them out on the dining table spread them out on the dining table spread them out on the dining table people come over for dinner and they're people come over for dinner and they're people come over for dinner and they're like oh who that and like you know and I like oh who that and like you know and I like oh who that and like you know and I love these things guess what I guess love these things guess what I guess love these things guess what I guess what I don't feel like that about yeah what I don't feel like that about yeah what I don't feel like that about yeah any digital picture all the photos in my any digital picture all the photos in my any digital picture all the photos in my iPhone you know what you're never going iPhone you know what you're never going iPhone you know what you're never going to ever do this is what we need to tell to ever do this is what we need to tell to ever do this is what we need to tell the people you're never going to relook the people you're never going to relook the people you're never going to relook at that video you took of the fireworks at that video you took of the fireworks at that video you took of the fireworks I know right when I see people looking I know right when I see people looking I know right when I see people looking at reality through their 7inch screen of at reality through their 7inch screen of at reality through their 7inch screen of a blurry horrible digitally zoomed when a blurry horrible digitally zoomed when a blurry horrible digitally zoomed when they digitally Zoom that's the they digitally Zoom that's the they digitally Zoom that's the worst uh yeah that that is off actually worst uh yeah that that is off actually worst uh yeah that that is off actually for my wife's uh 50th birthday a couple for my wife's uh 50th birthday a couple for my wife's uh 50th birthday a couple months ago we got the Bluetooth Polaroid months ago we got the Bluetooth Polaroid months ago we got the Bluetooth Polaroid inkless printers so I had everyone take inkless printers so I had everyone take inkless printers so I had everyone take pictures and then rather than them doing pictures and then rather than them doing pictures and then rather than them doing digital uploads that no one's ever going digital uploads that no one's ever going digital uploads that no one's ever going to look at they all bluetoothed them to look at they all bluetoothed them to look at they all bluetoothed them over to these things and I handed out over to these things and I handed out over to these things and I handed out Polaroids so everyone went home with a Polaroids so everyone went home with a Polaroids so everyone went home with a physical physical physical Polaroid yeah yeah I mean I think people Polaroid yeah yeah I mean I think people Polaroid yeah yeah I mean I think people are basically on the one hand it's just are basically on the one hand it's just are basically on the one hand it's just like scarcity equals value so that's one like scarcity equals value so that's one like scarcity equals value so that's one thing right and the other thing is like thing right and the other thing is like thing right and the other thing is like you know we're still sort of like apes you know we're still sort of like apes you know we're still sort of like apes right and apes have these very like right and apes have these very like right and apes have these very like physical tactile our brains are wired physical tactile our brains are wired physical tactile our brains are wired for a certain sort of loop that's only for a certain sort of loop that's only for a certain sort of loop that's only activated by the physical and the activated by the physical and the activated by the physical and the tactile and the immediate tactile and the immediate tactile and the immediate and the community and all those words and the community and all those words and the community and all those words but you know just because something can

but you know just because something can but you know just because something can be done at zero cost and infinite scale be done at zero cost and infinite scale be done at zero cost and infinite scale doesn't mean that like this piece of doesn't mean that like this piece of doesn't mean that like this piece of Hardware up here is going to react to it Hardware up here is going to react to it Hardware up here is going to react to it the same way okay so here's the pivot the same way okay so here's the pivot the same way okay so here's the pivot and here's what I to talk about what and here's what I to talk about what and here's what I to talk about what should be commoditized what should be should be commoditized what should be should be commoditized what should be simple what should be boring what should simple what should be boring what should simple what should be boring what should be easy and what shouldn't so for be easy and what shouldn't so for be easy and what shouldn't so for context you know I don't know how how context you know I don't know how how context you know I don't know how how old you are but I figure I probably got old you are but I figure I probably got old you are but I figure I probably got like 10 years on you I'm 43 how old are like 10 years on you I'm 43 how old are like 10 years on you I'm 43 how old are you I'll be 51 in in in January you you you I'll be 51 in in in January you you you I'll be 51 in in in January you you look fantastic oh my God you've been look fantastic oh my God you've been look fantastic oh my God you've been moisturizing oh yeah it's because I'm moisturizing oh yeah it's because I'm moisturizing oh yeah it's because I'm half asan I'll look like this until half asan I'll look like this until half asan I'll look like this until about 60 yeah and then I'll suddenly about 60 yeah and then I'll suddenly about 60 yeah and then I'll suddenly look like a very old Chinese man yeah look like a very old Chinese man yeah look like a very old Chinese man yeah when does that happen is it just a when does that happen is it just a when does that happen is it just a moment going to happen he's on a random moment going to happen he's on a random moment going to happen he's on a random Tuesday think your your number comes up Tuesday think your your number comes up Tuesday think your your number comes up one day like a guy like you get a knock one day like a guy like you get a knock one day like a guy like you get a knock on the door and suddenly you're just on the door and suddenly you're just on the door and suddenly you're just like you lose a foot lose a foot and like you lose a foot lose a foot and like you lose a foot lose a foot and you're old well mission accomplished man you're old well mission accomplished man you're old well mission accomplished man you look great keep moisturizing so um you look great keep moisturizing so um you look great keep moisturizing so um 25 years ago maybe even longer uh I 25 years ago maybe even longer uh I 25 years ago maybe even longer uh I worked at a place called 800.com worked at a place called 800.com worked at a place called 800.com 800.com and it's pre- Amazon and uh my 800.com and it's pre- Amazon and uh my 800.com and it's pre- Amazon and uh my job was managing the web farm and this job was managing the web farm and this job was managing the web farm and this was a time when web farm management was was a time when web farm management was was a time when web farm management was a thing right you would hire Consultants a thing right you would hire Consultants a thing right you would hire Consultants from like Cisco local director or F5 and from like Cisco local director or F5 and from like Cisco local director or F5 and they'd fly a person in and they would they'd fly a person in and they would they'd fly a person in and they would teach you how to scale the web farm and teach you how to scale the web farm and teach you how to scale the web farm and then one of the business people says then one of the business people says then one of the business people says we're going to do a deal we're going to we're going to do a deal we're going to we're going to do a deal we're going to do three DVDs for a dollar it's going to do three DVDs for a dollar it's going to do three DVDs for a dollar it's going to be huge and it completely changed the be huge and it completely changed the be huge and it completely changed the characteristics of scaling because we

characteristics of scaling because we characteristics of scaling because we went from a site where people were went from a site where people were went from a site where people were basically 80% of the time browsing the basically 80% of the time browsing the basically 80% of the time browsing the product catalog sure to 80% of the product catalog sure to 80% of the product catalog sure to 80% of the people had all of their DVDs picked out people had all of their DVDs picked out people had all of their DVDs picked out they just wanted to give us money so we they just wanted to give us money so we they just wanted to give us money so we had to change the scale and scale up the had to change the scale and scale up the had to change the scale and scale up the shopping cart and scale down the product shopping cart and scale down the product shopping cart and scale down the product catalog and the business guy didn't get catalog and the business guy didn't get catalog and the business guy didn't get that he didn't understand that like he that he didn't understand that like he that he didn't understand that like he just like they just want to give the just like they just want to give the just like they just want to give the money because he was a business person money because he was a business person money because he was a business person he wanted to sell DVDs totally now fast he wanted to sell DVDs totally now fast he wanted to sell DVDs totally now fast forward the like that entire section of forward the like that entire section of forward the like that entire section of my resume is just a checkbox in the my resume is just a checkbox in the my resume is just a checkbox in the cloud somewhere totally or it's been cloud somewhere totally or it's been cloud somewhere totally or it's been solved by Shopify is that a good thing solved by Shopify is that a good thing solved by Shopify is that a good thing is that the kind of boring that we want is that the kind of boring that we want is that the kind of boring that we want to abstract away yeah I mean I think to abstract away yeah I mean I think to abstract away yeah I mean I think like I've had this conversation with like I've had this conversation with like I've had this conversation with Toby it always comes around about once Toby it always comes around about once Toby it always comes around about once every six months and we talk every six months and we talk every six months and we talk about some part of shopy that is about some part of shopy that is about some part of shopy that is historically hard and we're going to historically hard and we're going to historically hard and we're going to make easy by just doing it in software make easy by just doing it in software make easy by just doing it in software or doing it at scale or something like or doing it at scale or something like or doing it at scale or something like that and this conversation always ends that and this conversation always ends that and this conversation always ends up with the like well The Logical end up with the like well The Logical end up with the like well The Logical end point of all of this is that the entire point of all of this is that the entire point of all of this is that the entire shop if I admin just gets replaced with shop if I admin just gets replaced with shop if I admin just gets replaced with a huge red button that says make me a huge red button that says make me a huge red button that says make me money right yeah isn't that just money right yeah isn't that just money right yeah isn't that just endstage capitalism I like too far endstage capitalism I like too far endstage capitalism I like too far because I like what I like about Shopify because I like what I like about Shopify because I like what I like about Shopify for me is it enables like small and for me is it enables like small and for me is it enables like small and medium-sized businesses to look like big medium-sized businesses to look like big medium-sized businesses to look like big businesses it makes people power but no businesses it makes people power but no businesses it makes people power but no one ever wants to go there this is this one ever wants to go there this is this one ever wants to go there this is this is the point is like nobody at Shopify is the point is like nobody at Shopify is the point is like nobody at Shopify thinks that going all the way to Shopify

thinks that going all the way to Shopify thinks that going all the way to Shopify disappears and there's just a huge red disappears and there's just a huge red disappears and there's just a huge red button that says make me money because button that says make me money because button that says make me money because by the way if everyone has access to by the way if everyone has access to by the way if everyone has access to that red button then everyone's getting that red button then everyone's getting that red button then everyone's getting like the the the yield that red button like the the the yield that red button like the the the yield that red button will like go to zero will like go to zero will like go to zero right and so I think it just comes down right and so I think it just comes down right and so I think it just comes down to like what you value as a society like to like what you value as a society like to like what you value as a society like do you value what's the unique thing do you value what's the unique thing do you value what's the unique thing that each person brings to the table that each person brings to the table that each person brings to the table that you value like is it really like that you value like is it really like that you value like is it really like their website is fast probably not their website is fast probably not their website is fast probably not you're like hey like can everyone's you're like hey like can everyone's you're like hey like can everyone's website just be fast like that's I don't website just be fast like that's I don't website just be fast like that's I don't want to fine that's not a differentiator want to fine that's not a differentiator want to fine that's not a differentiator right what what is a differentiator right what what is a differentiator right what what is a differentiator though is so like the marginal cost of though is so like the marginal cost of though is so like the marginal cost of atoms has not yet gone to zero right so atoms has not yet gone to zero right so atoms has not yet gone to zero right so atoms are still a thing that one costs atoms are still a thing that one costs atoms are still a thing that one costs one thing right so the the physical one thing right so the the physical one thing right so the the physical product you product you product you produce is still differentiated like produce is still differentiated like produce is still differentiated like what is the idea for the thing that I'm what is the idea for the thing that I'm what is the idea for the thing that I'm going to buy here the other thing that's going to buy here the other thing that's going to buy here the other thing that's differentiated I think is stories right differentiated I think is stories right differentiated I think is stories right like the story that you tell about why like the story that you tell about why like the story that you tell about why this product exists who you are why this product exists who you are why this product exists who you are why anyone should care why like because when anyone should care why like because when anyone should care why like because when someone buys like someone buys like someone buys like you know like a I don't know like I mean you know like a I don't know like I mean you know like a I don't know like I mean we're both sort of audio musical people we're both sort of audio musical people we're both sort of audio musical people like when you buy like a keyboard from like when you buy like a keyboard from like when you buy like a keyboard from like Fender roads or you buy like I mean like Fender roads or you buy like I mean like Fender roads or you buy like I mean I'm a bit of a Teenage engineering I'm a bit of a Teenage engineering I'm a bit of a Teenage engineering Fanboy but like when you buy their stuff Fanboy but like when you buy their stuff Fanboy but like when you buy their stuff you're not just buying the thing you're you're not just buying the thing you're you're not just buying the thing you're buying into the story and the the point buying into the story and the the point buying into the story and the the point of view that they have right and so

of view that they have right and so of view that they have right and so that's the thing that I think is that's the thing that I think is that's the thing that I think is different and I think digital like there different and I think digital like there different and I think digital like there there's I mean some of the sites that there's I mean some of the sites that there's I mean some of the sites that are on shopy that are that are really are on shopy that are that are really are on shopy that are that are really interesting that there's one that that interesting that there's one that that interesting that there's one that that was was was done a year or two ago called Drake done a year or two ago called Drake done a year or two ago called Drake related that is like a I mean if you go related that is like a I mean if you go related that is like a I mean if you go to it like go to Drake rated.com it's to it like go to Drake rated.com it's to it like go to Drake rated.com it's literally like a I think I'm I can't literally like a I think I'm I can't literally like a I think I'm I can't remember what it's built in but it's not remember what it's built in but it's not remember what it's built in but it's not built like any other e-commerce website built like any other e-commerce website built like any other e-commerce website you've ever seen and it's kind of going you've ever seen and it's kind of going you've ever seen and it's kind of going around his house and his studio and you around his house and his studio and you around his house and his studio and you can like buy different it's like a you can like buy different it's like a you can like buy different it's like a you know looks like it looks like an old know looks like it looks like an old know looks like it looks like an old style image map where you would like style image map where you would like style image map where you would like he's got he got a photograph of yeah of he's got he got a photograph of yeah of he's got he got a photograph of yeah of his like Ottoman and then there's hot his like Ottoman and then there's hot his like Ottoman and then there's hot spots on it and then it's stuff that's spots on it and then it's stuff that's spots on it and then it's stuff that's lying around that you can buy exactly lying around that you can buy exactly lying around that you can buy exactly that's sitting on his thing but that that's sitting on his thing but that that's sitting on his thing but that website is is a piece of art right it's website is is a piece of art right it's website is is a piece of art right it's like a very particular point of view of like a very particular point of view of like a very particular point of view of like we're going to create this like we're going to create this like we're going to create this experience and it's not going to be like experience and it's not going to be like experience and it's not going to be like any other online store that you're going any other online store that you're going any other online store that you're going to visit today oh this is a Shopify to visit today oh this is a Shopify to visit today oh this is a Shopify store it's a Shopify store yeah it's store it's a Shopify store yeah it's store it's a Shopify store yeah it's built in hydrogen oh it doesn't yeah I built in hydrogen oh it doesn't yeah I built in hydrogen oh it doesn't yeah I wouldn't so it's it's funny you wouldn't so it's it's funny you wouldn't so it's it's funny you mentioned that that because I have been mentioned that that because I have been mentioned that that because I have been inundated with uh I clicked I made a inundated with uh I clicked I made a inundated with uh I clicked I made a mistake about a week ago and I I I I mistake about a week ago and I I I I mistake about a week ago and I I I I clicked on a watch ad in uh in Instagram clicked on a watch ad in uh in Instagram clicked on a watch ad in uh in Instagram and for the last nine days uh every and for the last nine days uh every and for the last nine days uh every single thing on the internet has decided single thing on the internet has decided single thing on the internet has decided that I need to watch um and and and they that I need to watch um and and and they that I need to watch um and and and they all look exactly the same every website all look exactly the same every website all look exactly the same every website for this watch looks the for this watch looks the for this watch looks the same I assume because they're using the

same I assume because they're using the same I assume because they're using the default but I would not have guessed default but I would not have guessed default but I would not have guessed that this was Shopify which is what I that this was Shopify which is what I that this was Shopify which is what I want to see like I want that kind of want to see like I want that kind of want to see like I want that kind of creativity I want to a different message creativity I want to a different message creativity I want to a different message a different story right and so to come a different story right and so to come a different story right and so to come back to your original question like back to your original question like back to your original question like things that we want to be commoditized things that we want to be commoditized things that we want to be commoditized are is the like like the technical part are is the like like the technical part are is the like like the technical part of like is this reliable is it of like is this reliable is it of like is this reliable is it fast all of that stuff kind of can melt fast all of that stuff kind of can melt fast all of that stuff kind of can melt away and actually like this sort of a away and actually like this sort of a away and actually like this sort of a funnel thing but like I feel funnel thing but like I feel funnel thing but like I feel like the Journey of someone on a website like the Journey of someone on a website like the Journey of someone on a website particularly like a an online store particularly like a an online store particularly like a an online store the start of the journey is like kind of the start of the journey is like kind of the start of the journey is like kind of who is like what's this site why should who is like what's this site why should who is like what's this site why should I care what's the story right that's I care what's the story right that's I care what's the story right that's what the beginning of the website is all what the beginning of the website is all what the beginning of the website is all about it's like tell me why I'm even about it's like tell me why I'm even about it's like tell me why I'm even here and why I should care the further here and why I should care the further here and why I should care the further you get to the bottom where the checkout you get to the bottom where the checkout you get to the bottom where the checkout is that's where like you don't you don't is that's where like you don't you don't is that's where like you don't you don't want creativity down there it's like I'm want creativity down there it's like I'm want creativity down there it's like I'm about to hand you money I I don't I'm about to hand you money I I don't I'm about to hand you money I I don't I'm not looking for creativity I'm looking not looking for creativity I'm looking not looking for creativity I'm looking for guarantees I want to know that for guarantees I want to know that for guarantees I want to know that you're not spamming me I want to know you're not spamming me I want to know you're not spamming me I want to know that the shipping is going to show up that the shipping is going to show up that the shipping is going to show up I'm looking for reassurance I'm not I'm looking for reassurance I'm not I'm looking for reassurance I'm not looking for like blowing my mind right looking for like blowing my mind right looking for like blowing my mind right now and so what we try to do at CH like now and so what we try to do at CH like now and so what we try to do at CH like give you the tools to build give you the tools to build give you the tools to build that differentiated storytelling thing that differentiated storytelling thing that differentiated storytelling thing near the top but then by the time you near the top but then by the time you near the top but then by the time you get need to check out it's actually get need to check out it's actually get need to check out it's actually becoming much much much more consistent becoming much much much more consistent becoming much much much more consistent a lot of Shopify checkouts look almost a lot of Shopify checkouts look almost a lot of Shopify checkouts look almost the same and that's a feature not a bug

the same and that's a feature not a bug the same and that's a feature not a bug because like when I'm giving you money I because like when I'm giving you money I because like when I'm giving you money I want to see a thing that I've seen want to see a thing that I've seen want to see a thing that I've seen before I want to feel safe so I am very before I want to feel safe so I am very before I want to feel safe so I am very much a person that that is like uh if much a person that that is like uh if much a person that that is like uh if the price point is right I'll buy the the price point is right I'll buy the the price point is right I'll buy the thing you know like buy first think thing you know like buy first think thing you know like buy first think think second and I and I regret that but think second and I and I regret that but think second and I and I regret that but there's a feeling where it's like oh there's a feeling where it's like oh there's a feeling where it's like oh they're going to make this so easy to they're going to make this so easy to they're going to make this so easy to take this money from me but if there's take this money from me but if there's take this money from me but if there's any friction at all I will abandon a any friction at all I will abandon a any friction at all I will abandon a cart and I will never return you know I cart and I will never return you know I cart and I will never return you know I will bail but it's like if it's like oh will bail but it's like if it's like oh will bail but it's like if it's like oh uh we'll text you a number and all you uh we'll text you a number and all you uh we'll text you a number and all you have to do is hit you know and and oh I have to do is hit you know and and oh I have to do is hit you know and and oh I I've seen you before I've seen your I've seen you before I've seen your I've seen you before I've seen your credit card before I'll take your money credit card before I'll take your money credit card before I'll take your money Apple pay oh if you got Apple pay and Apple pay oh if you got Apple pay and Apple pay oh if you got Apple pay and I'm on my mobile the stuff that I will I'm on my mobile the stuff that I will I'm on my mobile the stuff that I will buy uh it's happening yeah we and but buy uh it's happening yeah we and but buy uh it's happening yeah we and but but if you go back to the 90s the amount but if you go back to the 90s the amount but if you go back to the 90s the amount of work that it required to just get of work that it required to just get of work that it required to just get someone to fill out their address and to someone to fill out their address and to someone to fill out their address and to fill out their credit card to do credit fill out their credit card to do credit fill out their credit card to do credit card validation so all of those problems card validation so all of those problems card validation so all of those problems you're saving you're saying have been you're saving you're saying have been you're saving you're saying have been solved like the taking money part is not solved like the taking money part is not solved like the taking money part is not the differentiator it's a funnel it the differentiator it's a funnel it the differentiator it's a funnel it truly is a funnel and you have unlimited truly is a funnel and you have unlimited truly is a funnel and you have unlimited flexibility at the top open part of the flexibility at the top open part of the flexibility at the top open part of the funnel to tell your story exactly I mean funnel to tell your story exactly I mean funnel to tell your story exactly I mean even the technical stack of shop fire even the technical stack of shop fire even the technical stack of shop fire reflects that right like the the tooling reflects that right like the the tooling reflects that right like the the tooling we give you to build storefronts you we give you to build storefronts you we give you to build storefronts you effectively have control all the way effectively have control all the way effectively have control all the way down to the base plate of the HTML right down to the base plate of the HTML right down to the base plate of the HTML right you can literally do anything within you can literally do anything within you can literally do anything within reason like if you do fraud things we're reason like if you do fraud things we're reason like if you do fraud things we're going to come after you but like within going to come after you but like within going to come after you but like within reason you can do anything by the time reason you can do anything by the time reason you can do anything by the time you comes to the checkout it's a much you comes to the checkout it's a much you comes to the checkout it's a much more controlled stack you no longer have more controlled stack you no longer have more controlled stack you no longer have access to the Dom and there there's

access to the Dom and there there's access to the Dom and there there's extensibility but it's very controlled extensibility but it's very controlled extensibility but it's very controlled because we're trying to preserve the because we're trying to preserve the because we're trying to preserve the consistency and the security of that consistency and the security of that consistency and the security of that experience and make it a safe place for experience and make it a safe place for experience and make it a safe place for someone to like give you lots of someone to like give you lots of someone to like give you lots of money that's interesting I just had this money that's interesting I just had this money that's interesting I just had this thing pop in my head you've almost made thing pop in my head you've almost made thing pop in my head you've almost made the internet's checkout process and like the internet's checkout process and like the internet's checkout process and like yes you worry about the store you were yes you worry about the store you were yes you worry about the store you were at the story will handle checkout but at at the story will handle checkout but at at the story will handle checkout but at the same time you've given them all of the same time you've given them all of the same time you've given them all of the the structures and the tools because the the structures and the tools because the the structures and the tools because I know a lot I know a lot of Shopify I know a lot I know a lot of Shopify I know a lot I know a lot of Shopify developers people identify they developers people identify they developers people identify they self-identify as Shopify developers I'm self-identify as Shopify developers I'm self-identify as Shopify developers I'm not a Dev Shopify Dev and they can go not a Dev Shopify Dev and they can go not a Dev Shopify Dev and they can go and have all kinds of fun yeah I mean and have all kinds of fun yeah I mean and have all kinds of fun yeah I mean look the the the fundamental problem of look the the the fundamental problem of look the the the fundamental problem of Shopify is and it's Shopify is and it's Shopify is and it's why it's why Shopify is a hard thing to why it's why Shopify is a hard thing to why it's why Shopify is a hard thing to build is build is build is because if if you if you went through because if if you if you went through because if if you if you went through the data model of shopy in the back end the data model of shopy in the back end the data model of shopy in the back end like the products and the inventory and like the products and the inventory and like the products and the inventory and the orders and the collections and the the orders and the collections and the the orders and the collections and the shipping rules and yada yada shipping rules and yada yada shipping rules and yada yada yada what you would find is that the yada what you would find is that the yada what you would find is that the vast majority of Shopify data model vast majority of Shopify data model vast majority of Shopify data model somehow shows up in the checkout as somehow shows up in the checkout as somehow shows up in the checkout as influencing the influencing the influencing the transaction governing how much you're transaction governing how much you're transaction governing how much you're going to pay for something what the going to pay for something what the going to pay for something what the shipping rules are the taxes the duties shipping rules are the taxes the duties shipping rules are the taxes the duties y y y all that stuff y y y all that stuff y y y all that stuff right and what this stuff ends up being right and what this stuff ends up being right and what this stuff ends up being is it's actually an attempt to is it's actually an attempt to is it's actually an attempt to encode all of the ways that humans trade encode all of the ways that humans trade encode all of the ways that humans trade with one another into with one another into with one another into software because at the moment that the

software because at the moment that the software because at the moment that the checkout happens like the checkout is checkout happens like the checkout is checkout happens like the checkout is going to charge your a certain amount of going to charge your a certain amount of going to charge your a certain amount of money and that amount of money has to be money and that amount of money has to be money and that amount of money has to be right and it has to reflect the deal right and it has to reflect the deal right and it has to reflect the deal that's on the table now the problem is that's on the table now the problem is that's on the table now the problem is is that the deal that's on the table is is that the deal that's on the table is is that the deal that's on the table is all the deals of all the tables of all the deals of all the tables of all the deals of all the tables of planet Earth across all the industries planet Earth across all the industries planet Earth across all the industries across all the countries across all the across all the countries across all the across all the countries across all the currencies and is it am I buying this currencies and is it am I buying this currencies and is it am I buying this once am I buying a subscription am I once am I buying a subscription am I once am I buying a subscription am I buying at retail am I buying it buying at retail am I buying it buying at retail am I buying it wholesale and so you end up with this wholesale and so you end up with this wholesale and so you end up with this thing it's like the Shopify checkout is thing it's like the Shopify checkout is thing it's like the Shopify checkout is really a how do you encode human trade really a how do you encode human trade really a how do you encode human trade into a pace of into a pace of into a pace of software and so that's why it's a hard software and so that's why it's a hard software and so that's why it's a hard thing to build you know yeah you know thing to build you know yeah you know thing to build you know yeah you know it's so funny because in my mind I've it's so funny because in my mind I've it's so funny because in my mind I've been been seeing this inverted pyramid been been seeing this inverted pyramid been been seeing this inverted pyramid uh going from Top at the you know the uh going from Top at the you know the uh going from Top at the you know the big funnel at the top to checkout at the big funnel at the top to checkout at the big funnel at the top to checkout at the bottom and in my mind in my mind's eye bottom and in my mind in my mind's eye bottom and in my mind in my mind's eye in my own mental Dom the the checkout in my own mental Dom the the checkout in my own mental Dom the the checkout problem has been quite small it's not problem has been quite small it's not problem has been quite small it's not there's another pyramid underneath it there's another pyramid underneath it there's another pyramid underneath it that's that's like the B that's that's like the B that's that's like the B like the checkout part is as complicated like the checkout part is as complicated like the checkout part is as complicated or more so oh yeah the checkout team at or more so oh yeah the checkout team at or more so oh yeah the checkout team at shopy has the hardest job of all the shopy has the hardest job of all the shopy has the hardest job of all the teams and no shade to everyone else but teams and no shade to everyone else but teams and no shade to everyone else but all of the dependencies of all the teams all of the dependencies of all the teams all of the dependencies of all the teams at shopy run towards that single team at shopy run towards that single team at shopy run towards that single team because almost everything at Shopify because almost everything at Shopify because almost everything at Shopify somehow affects the somehow affects the somehow affects the checkout um and so yeah it's it's a very checkout um and so yeah it's it's a very checkout um and so yeah it's it's a very very very hard problem and this is like very very hard problem and this is like very very hard problem and this is like you see this you know every so often you see this you know every so often you see this you know every so often someone will show me like a startup someone will show me like a startup someone will show me like a startup that's like oh we've got this new thing

that's like oh we've got this new thing that's like oh we've got this new thing that like can build that like can build that like can build a little mobile app or a little website a little mobile app or a little website a little mobile app or a little website thing or something or other and then the thing or something or other and then the thing or something or other and then the same thing keeps happening where they're same thing keeps happening where they're same thing keeps happening where they're like oh well what do people want to do like oh well what do people want to do like oh well what do people want to do with this well a bunch of the users with this well a bunch of the users with this well a bunch of the users would love to sell things and then would love to sell things and then would love to sell things and then they're like oh well let's just add a they're like oh well let's just add a they're like oh well let's just add a checkout how hard could it be well you checkout how hard could it be well you checkout how hard could it be well you know you add something to the cart and know you add something to the cart and know you add something to the cart and it cost $5 and blah blah blah blah blah it cost $5 and blah blah blah blah blah it cost $5 and blah blah blah blah blah and then they suddenly run into the like and then they suddenly run into the like and then they suddenly run into the like right but what about all the countries right but what about all the countries right but what about all the countries and what about all the taxes and what and what about all the taxes and what and what about all the taxes and what about all the blah and then and then about all the blah and then and then about all the blah and then and then it's suddenly you're like my God this is it's suddenly you're like my God this is it's suddenly you're like my God this is human trade this is a kind of a large human trade this is a kind of a large human trade this is a kind of a large problem you problem you problem you know hey friends in the interest of me know hey friends in the interest of me know hey friends in the interest of me learning more about Ai and helping you learning more about Ai and helping you learning more about Ai and helping you learn more about AI for the next couple learn more about AI for the next couple learn more about AI for the next couple of episodes we're going to have Lander of episodes we're going to have Lander of episodes we're going to have Lander vandoran from Qualcomm help me vandoran from Qualcomm help me vandoran from Qualcomm help me understand understand understand AI what is an npu and why is it AI what is an npu and why is it AI what is an npu and why is it important today uh so the npu stands for important today uh so the npu stands for important today uh so the npu stands for uh neural processing units and it's uh neural processing units and it's uh neural processing units and it's basically your AI accelerator and so it basically your AI accelerator and so it basically your AI accelerator and so it can execute AI operations these large can execute AI operations these large can execute AI operations these large language models language models language models or all sorts of different generative AI or all sorts of different generative AI or all sorts of different generative AI models in a much more efficient way than models in a much more efficient way than models in a much more efficient way than a CPU or a GPU can so just to give you a CPU or a GPU can so just to give you a CPU or a GPU can so just to give you an example with Microsoft's recall like an example with Microsoft's recall like an example with Microsoft's recall like you run that continuously in the you run that continuously in the you run that continuously in the background running it on an npu takes background running it on an npu takes background running it on an npu takes about 30 minutes of overall life battery about 30 minutes of overall life battery about 30 minutes of overall life battery lifetime if you were to run it on a GP

lifetime if you were to run it on a GP lifetime if you were to run it on a GP you it would take 6 and a half hours you it would take 6 and a half hours you it would take 6 and a half hours right so it's all about Energy right so it's all about Energy right so it's all about Energy Efficiency very specifically dedicated Efficiency very specifically dedicated Efficiency very specifically dedicated to a single task which is AI in this to a single task which is AI in this to a single task which is AI in this case very cool so I'm going to go learn case very cool so I'm going to go learn case very cool so I'm going to go learn more about npus and how they can do more about npus and how they can do more about npus and how they can do things more cheaply from a battery things more cheaply from a battery things more cheaply from a battery perspective more efficiently and why I perspective more efficiently and why I perspective more efficiently and why I might want a Snapdragon processor in my might want a Snapdragon processor in my might want a Snapdragon processor in my next PC exactly thank you and folks can next PC exactly thank you and folks can next PC exactly thank you and folks can check out more at check out more at check out more at qualcomm.com sdevelopments qualcomm.com sdevelopments qualcomm.com sdevelopments those things and learn more today the uh the folks that uh that set today the uh the folks that uh that set us up should have you on the show said us up should have you on the show said us up should have you on the show said that there's this concept of boring that there's this concept of boring that there's this concept of boring software um and it feels like like I software um and it feels like like I software um and it feels like like I find this to be fascinating this is not find this to be fascinating this is not find this to be fascinating this is not boring at all but for the user checking boring at all but for the user checking boring at all but for the user checking out is boring so it's kind of funny you out is boring so it's kind of funny you out is boring so it's kind of funny you want to make the checkout process as want to make the checkout process as want to make the checkout process as reliable and dull and friction free as reliable and dull and friction free as reliable and dull and friction free as possible for the user no surprises but possible for the user no surprises but possible for the user no surprises but the back end must not be boring at all the back end must not be boring at all the back end must not be boring at all well this is the thing so like the well this is the thing so like the well this is the thing so like the question is I mean boring is a bit question is I mean boring is a bit question is I mean boring is a bit tongue and cheek I can tell you how it tongue and cheek I can tell you how it tongue and cheek I can tell you how it came about so we're if we cycle back so came about so we're if we cycle back so came about so we're if we cycle back so so I've had my job at Shopify for about so I've had my job at Shopify for about so I've had my job at Shopify for about four years now and when I took over uh four years now and when I took over uh four years now and when I took over uh what is called Shopify core internally what is called Shopify core internally what is called Shopify core internally which is what most people in the outside which is what most people in the outside which is what most people in the outside think of as Shopify so the check out the think of as Shopify so the check out the think of as Shopify so the check out the storefront the backend the dev storefront the backend the dev storefront the backend the dev platform uh Shopify was I would call it

platform uh Shopify was I would call it platform uh Shopify was I would call it like capability light four years ago for like capability light four years ago for like capability light four years ago for the scale that it was operating at and the scale that it was operating at and the scale that it was operating at and like people were trying to do things like people were trying to do things like people were trying to do things with with with shy that it really did not have the shy that it really did not have the shy that it really did not have the capabilities for and so they were doing capabilities for and so they were doing capabilities for and so they were doing all these hacks on hacks on Hacks to all these hacks on hacks on Hacks to all these hacks on hacks on Hacks to make weird business models work and it make weird business models work and it make weird business models work and it was just kind of it was clearly um was just kind of it was clearly um was just kind of it was clearly um things that should have been in the core things that should have been in the core things that should have been in the core of product were not there so I would say of product were not there so I would say of product were not there so I would say on balance over the last 3 or four years on balance over the last 3 or four years on balance over the last 3 or four years we've gone and added in a bunch of these we've gone and added in a bunch of these we've gone and added in a bunch of these missing capabilities like being good at missing capabilities like being good at missing capabilities like being good at selling internationally being good at selling internationally being good at selling internationally being good at selling point of sale being good at selling point of sale being good at selling point of sale being good at selling B2B making the developer selling B2B making the developer selling B2B making the developer platform much more uh feature Rich but platform much more uh feature Rich but platform much more uh feature Rich but the thing that happened and I am the thing that happened and I am the thing that happened and I am regretful of this I don't know that I regretful of this I don't know that I regretful of this I don't know that I would have done it differently I think would have done it differently I think would have done it differently I think it was the right call but what always it was the right call but what always it was the right call but what always happens and I'm sure you've seen this happens and I'm sure you've seen this happens and I'm sure you've seen this you know a million times and this has you know a million times and this has you know a million times and this has happened to a million teams at Microsoft happened to a million teams at Microsoft happened to a million teams at Microsoft and every big company and every big company and every big company is there's there's a nonlinear cost of is there's there's a nonlinear cost of is there's there's a nonlinear cost of like as you add more features to a like as you add more features to a like as you add more features to a platform the cost to back integrate each platform the cost to back integrate each platform the cost to back integrate each new feature into the existing feature new feature into the existing feature new feature into the existing feature set goes up because there's just more set goes up because there's just more set goes up because there's just more stuff that you have to be like oh right stuff that you have to be like oh right stuff that you have to be like oh right it has to work with all these existing it has to work with all these existing it has to work with all these existing things right and especially the teams things right and especially the teams things right and especially the teams that were there at the beginning are not that were there at the beginning are not that were there at the beginning are not used to like the back integration cost used to like the back integration cost used to like the back integration cost right because they remember when there right because they remember when there right because they remember when there was only 10 features and they're like oh was only 10 features and they're like oh was only 10 features and they're like oh what there's 100 features now like oh I what there's 100 features now like oh I what there's 100 features now like oh I don't have time for this right and so don't have time for this right and so don't have time for this right and so what happens is the new features end up what happens is the new features end up what happens is the new features end up not working so well with the entirety of not working so well with the entirety of not working so well with the entirety of the existing platform

the existing platform the existing platform right and so the users start having right and so the users start having right and so the users start having these like absurd things where they're these like absurd things where they're these like absurd things where they're like oh well you know as an example like like oh well you know as an example like like oh well you know as an example like hey Shopify you do subscriptions and you hey Shopify you do subscriptions and you hey Shopify you do subscriptions and you do B2B but I can't do a B2B subscription do B2B but I can't do a B2B subscription do B2B but I can't do a B2B subscription that's insane and then they'll come to that's insane and then they'll come to that's insane and then they'll come to us and be like hey that's insane and the us and be like hey that's insane and the us and be like hey that's insane and the only real explanation for why that's only real explanation for why that's only real explanation for why that's true is because it's like well that's true is because it's like well that's true is because it's like well that's the subscriptions team and that's the the subscriptions team and that's the the subscriptions team and that's the B2B team and they didn't talk right B2B team and they didn't talk right B2B team and they didn't talk right which is a terrible answer this I've I which is a terrible answer this I've I which is a terrible answer this I've I have another podcast we talked about have another podcast we talked about have another podcast we talked about shipping the org chart and the customer shipping the org chart and the customer shipping the org chart and the customer does not care about your org chart but does not care about your org chart but does not care about your org chart but you just shipped it when you didn't you just shipped it when you didn't you just shipped it when you didn't allow B2B subscriptions exactly right allow B2B subscriptions exactly right allow B2B subscriptions exactly right and so I noticed you know and um Emma and so I noticed you know and um Emma and so I noticed you know and um Emma who runs uh product marketing for me and who runs uh product marketing for me and who runs uh product marketing for me and a couple of my team members came to me a couple of my team members came to me a couple of my team members came to me after the last Edition which we put out after the last Edition which we put out after the last Edition which we put out six months ago and they said hey Glenn six months ago and they said hey Glenn six months ago and they said hey Glenn we think uh we we should probably focus we think uh we we should probably focus we think uh we we should probably focus a bit more on integrating our existing a bit more on integrating our existing a bit more on integrating our existing feature set than adding new features and feature set than adding new features and feature set than adding new features and they said but hey we're just going to they said but hey we're just going to they said but hey we're just going to warn you that's going to mean the next warn you that's going to mean the next warn you that's going to mean the next Edition is going to be a little bit Edition is going to be a little bit Edition is going to be a little bit boring and I was boring and I was boring and I was like that's actually what the title of like that's actually what the title of like that's actually what the title of the next Edition should be we should the next Edition should be we should the next Edition should be we should just make it the boring Edition and it just make it the boring Edition and it just make it the boring Edition and it should just be like we're just going to should just be like we're just going to should just be like we're just going to make everything better no new whizbang make everything better no new whizbang make everything better no new whizbang features there's actually no headline features there's actually no headline features there's actually no headline really there's no new like here's the really there's no new like here's the really there's no new like here's the big new iPhone here's the big new big new iPhone here's the big new big new iPhone here's the big new airpods there just isn't one it's just airpods there just isn't one it's just airpods there just isn't one it's just see everything better was that hard to

see everything better was that hard to see everything better was that hard to sell because listen I have been saying sell because listen I have been saying sell because listen I have been saying that now this is my podcast and we're that now this is my podcast and we're that now this is my podcast and we're doing this on my own time but I do work doing this on my own time but I do work doing this on my own time but I do work for Microsoft in my day job I have been for Microsoft in my day job I have been for Microsoft in my day job I have been saying we should do a boring version of saying we should do a boring version of saying we should do a boring version of Windows just tighten the screws just Windows just tighten the screws just Windows just tighten the screws just make it better for a year everybody just make it better for a year everybody just make it better for a year everybody just shut up for a year no more buttons make shut up for a year no more buttons make shut up for a year no more buttons make it boring I love that you sold that did it boring I love that you sold that did it boring I love that you sold that did anyone push back but you're a VP you can anyone push back but you're a VP you can anyone push back but you're a VP you can do whatever you want to right I think do whatever you want to right I think do whatever you want to right I think people were worried they were they were people were worried they were they were people were worried they were they were like how's the Press going to react when like how's the Press going to react when like how's the Press going to react when we say it's boring but the reality do we say it's boring but the reality do we say it's boring but the reality do you remember I mean you're a Windows guy you remember I mean you're a Windows guy you remember I mean you're a Windows guy maybe you don't remember this but I maybe you don't remember this but I maybe you don't remember this but I remember do you remember snow leopard on remember do you remember snow leopard on remember do you remember snow leopard on Mac OS yeah I remember when it left my Mac OS yeah I remember when it left my Mac OS yeah I remember when it left my Mac Mini because snow snow leopard is Mac Mini because snow snow leopard is Mac Mini because snow snow leopard is when it said the Mac Mini is now left when it said the Mac Mini is now left when it said the Mac Mini is now left behind and I have a Mac Mini that's behind and I have a Mac Mini that's behind and I have a Mac Mini that's still on Snow Leopard because that's still on Snow Leopard because that's still on Snow Leopard because that's when the moment when the moment when the moment was oh dude I got a crazy story for you was oh dude I got a crazy story for you was oh dude I got a crazy story for you about snow leopards in Mac Mini in a about snow leopards in Mac Mini in a about snow leopards in Mac Mini in a second but I remember snow leopard as uh second but I remember snow leopard as uh second but I remember snow leopard as uh such a great release of ma OS leopard such a great release of ma OS leopard such a great release of ma OS leopard was really new and had all this weird was really new and had all this weird was really new and had all this weird [ __ ] but it was kind of unstable and [ __ ] but it was kind of unstable and [ __ ] but it was kind of unstable and then snow leopard just came in and just then snow leopard just came in and just then snow leopard just came in and just tightened everything up tighten tightened everything up tighten tightened everything up tighten everything up exactly it was a polished everything up exactly it was a polished everything up exactly it was a polished version of leopard yeah I was like this version of leopard yeah I was like this version of leopard yeah I was like this one this is it and I made a meme one this is it and I made a meme one this is it and I made a meme internally where I was like I I I I made internally where I was like I I I I made internally where I was like I I I I made an an emoji that I would put on product an an emoji that I would put on product an an emoji that I would put on product reviews that was just like the little reviews that was just like the little reviews that was just like the little snow like snowflake thing and then a snow like snowflake thing and then a snow like snowflake thing and then a leopard and I would just start leaving leopard and I would just start leaving leopard and I would just start leaving those two emojis everywhere every time those two emojis everywhere every time those two emojis everywhere every time someone proposed a project that was like someone proposed a project that was like someone proposed a project that was like that and then everyone was like Glen no that and then everyone was like Glen no that and then everyone was like Glen no one understands what snow leop is and one understands what snow leop is and one understands what snow leop is and then I mean boring is a better name but

then I mean boring is a better name but then I mean boring is a better name but no I totally I totally am picking up no I totally I totally am picking up no I totally I totally am picking up what you're putting down no but yeah the what you're putting down no but yeah the what you're putting down no but yeah the thing I remember was that you there was thing I remember was that you there was thing I remember was that you there was a time when they switched processors a time when they switched processors a time when they switched processors right when they switched from yes power right when they switched from yes power right when they switched from yes power power PC to Intel and then from Intel power PC to Intel and then from Intel power PC to Intel and then from Intel but they left all these machines behind but they left all these machines behind but they left all these machines behind and then there's still machines out and then there's still machines out and then there's still machines out there that are stuck on Snow Leopard there that are stuck on Snow Leopard there that are stuck on Snow Leopard because that was the end do you know how because that was the end do you know how because that was the end do you know how bad okay let going to tell you a thing bad okay let going to tell you a thing bad okay let going to tell you a thing that's like this is how bad of an that's like this is how bad of an that's like this is how bad of an engineer I am and this is why it's good engineer I am and this is why it's good engineer I am and this is why it's good that I'm a product guy now but like so that I'm a product guy now but like so that I'm a product guy now but like so my my first startup my only startup was my my first startup my only startup was my my first startup my only startup was a company called handshake and it was a a company called handshake and it was a a company called handshake and it was a sort of B2B only um Commerce platform sort of B2B only um Commerce platform sort of B2B only um Commerce platform much like Shopify but just wholesale much like Shopify but just wholesale much like Shopify but just wholesale only it started out as an iPhone app and only it started out as an iPhone app and only it started out as an iPhone app and the the initial use case was like Hey the the initial use case was like Hey the the initial use case was like Hey I'm a salesperson I'm at a trade show I'm a salesperson I'm at a trade show I'm a salesperson I'm at a trade show someone's cominging to my booth I want someone's cominging to my booth I want someone's cominging to my booth I want to enter orders for you know someone's to enter orders for you know someone's to enter orders for you know someone's going to order their back you know my going to order their back you know my going to order their back you know my products into their store so the initial products into their store so the initial products into their store so the initial product was just an iPhone app and it product was just an iPhone app and it product was just an iPhone app and it was just like you know punching in was just like you know punching in was just like you know punching in orders really good UI for doing that so orders really good UI for doing that so orders really good UI for doing that so I prototype this iPhone I prototype this iPhone I prototype this iPhone app and I build the data model in um app and I build the data model in um app and I build the data model in um core data exactly so I build it I build core data exactly so I build it I build core data exactly so I build it I build the RM in the data model in core data on the RM in the data model in core data on the RM in the data model in core data on the iPhone side and then I have this the iPhone side and then I have this the iPhone side and then I have this genius idea which is uh I'm really lazy genius idea which is uh I'm really lazy genius idea which is uh I'm really lazy I don't want to reimplement the data I don't want to reimplement the data I don't want to reimplement the data model and the network stack on the model and the network stack on the model and the network stack on the server so what I'm going to do is I'm server so what I'm going to do is I'm server so what I'm going to do is I'm going to compile out the data layer and going to compile out the data layer and going to compile out the data layer and the networking layer of the iPhone app the networking layer of the iPhone app the networking layer of the iPhone app into an Objective C extension and then

into an Objective C extension and then into an Objective C extension and then I'm going to load the objective c I'm going to load the objective c I'm going to load the objective c extension into a python server using py extension into a python server using py extension into a python server using py OBC on my at the time it was turbo gears OBC on my at the time it was turbo gears OBC on my at the time it was turbo gears eventually became Django thing right and eventually became Django thing right and eventually became Django thing right and I'm like dude I am so smart I just saved I'm like dude I am so smart I just saved I'm like dude I am so smart I just saved like two to three days of reimplementing like two to three days of reimplementing like two to three days of reimplementing all this [ __ ] in Python I'm a goddamn all this [ __ ] in Python I'm a goddamn all this [ __ ] in Python I'm a goddamn Genius of course now I can only run my Genius of course now I can only run my Genius of course now I can only run my server on a Mac right mhm so then the server on a Mac right mhm so then the server on a Mac right mhm so then the first server of handshake was literally first server of handshake was literally first server of handshake was literally a Mac Mini that was stuck in the network a Mac Mini that was stuck in the network a Mac Mini that was stuck in the network closet of the uh wework that I worked closet of the uh wework that I worked closet of the uh wework that I worked out of back in out of back in out of back in 2010 and I had to know the IT guy at the 2010 and I had to know the IT guy at the 2010 and I had to know the IT guy at the Wei work because every time he shut down Wei work because every time he shut down Wei work because every time he shut down the office like the server would go the office like the server would go the office like the server would go offline but I had the Mac Mini that you offline but I had the Mac Mini that you offline but I had the Mac Mini that you had right which was I think it was a had right which was I think it was a had right which was I think it was a core2 core2 core2 Duo uh Intel thing with two two CPUs Duo uh Intel thing with two two CPUs Duo uh Intel thing with two two CPUs right and then uh eventually they sh SK right and then uh eventually they sh SK right and then uh eventually they sh SK to the quadcore Mac Mini right and when to the quadcore Mac Mini right and when to the quadcore Mac Mini right and when that news came out I was like awesome that news came out I was like awesome that news came out I was like awesome I'm going to go buy that that's web I'm going to go buy that that's web I'm going to go buy that that's web scale that's 2x that's web scale that's 2x that's web scale that's 2x that's web scale so I go to the Apple Store I buy scale so I go to the Apple Store I buy scale so I go to the Apple Store I buy the Mac the Mac the Mac Mini and I come back and I try to Mini and I come back and I try to Mini and I come back and I try to install uh the hand the handshake server install uh the hand the handshake server install uh the hand the handshake server on it with this Objective C extension on it with this Objective C extension on it with this Objective C extension thing in it I boot the server instantly thing in it I boot the server instantly thing in it I boot the server instantly crashes because there's some bug in the crashes because there's some bug in the crashes because there's some bug in the lion version of uh of see where it does lion version of uh of see where it does lion version of uh of see where it does a div by zero error on some particular a div by zero error on some particular a div by zero error on some particular decimal thing it doesn't know how to decimal thing it doesn't know how to decimal thing it doesn't know how to divide decimals or something right so

divide decimals or something right so divide decimals or something right so instantly it's crashing so I'm like oh instantly it's crashing so I'm like oh instantly it's crashing so I'm like oh that's cool I'll just install snow that's cool I'll just install snow that's cool I'll just install snow leopard on this new Mac Mini and then leopard on this new Mac Mini and then leopard on this new Mac Mini and then I'll be able to run the server fine try I'll be able to run the server fine try I'll be able to run the server fine try to do that can't because the all the to do that can't because the all the to do that can't because the all the drivers are not for the new hardware so drivers are not for the new hardware so drivers are not for the new hardware so now I realized oh my God I can only run now I realized oh my God I can only run now I realized oh my God I can only run the server for my entire startup on this the server for my entire startup on this the server for my entire startup on this one exact Mac Mini which they don't even one exact Mac Mini which they don't even one exact Mac Mini which they don't even sell any anym and I was like I need to sell any anym and I was like I need to sell any anym and I was like I need to go to eBay and buy another one of these go to eBay and buy another one of these go to eBay and buy another one of these things right now as a things right now as a things right now as a backup and then I spent a month like backup and then I spent a month like backup and then I spent a month like reprogramming the entire server just in reprogramming the entire server just in reprogramming the entire server just in like pure python because I was like this like pure python because I was like this like pure python because I was like this is a sign and this is why I'm not an is a sign and this is why I'm not an is a sign and this is why I'm not an engineer anymore oh my God and then and engineer anymore oh my God and then and engineer anymore oh my God and then and do do you still have that mini somewhere do do you still have that mini somewhere do do you still have that mini somewhere it should be in a museum I do actually it should be in a museum I do actually it should be in a museum I do actually yeah it's somewhere here in my in my yeah it's somewhere here in my in my yeah it's somewhere here in my in my house it's like you know it's it's it's house it's like you know it's it's it's house it's like you know it's it's it's in a trophy case or something that in a trophy case or something that in a trophy case or something that reminds me of the Tim burner's Lee thing reminds me of the Tim burner's Lee thing reminds me of the Tim burner's Lee thing where when when the early early early where when when the early early early where when when the early early early days of the internet Tim burner Lee and days of the internet Tim burner Lee and days of the internet Tim burner Lee and all of his interns were creating the all of his interns were creating the all of his interns were creating the worldwide web and there was like a worldwide web and there was like a worldwide web and there was like a server under his desk that was like server under his desk that was like server under his desk that was like that's the internet don't shut it off that's the internet don't shut it off that's the internet don't shut it off it's right there he had like a little it's right there he had like a little it's right there he had like a little piece of paper on it just make sure you piece of paper on it just make sure you piece of paper on it just make sure you don't turn off the server because that's don't turn off the server because that's don't turn off the server because that's the entire web H yeah so this so This Edition the web H yeah so this so This Edition the boring Edition uh is uh is out December boring Edition uh is uh is out December boring Edition uh is uh is out December uh 11th that's right yeah so folks can uh 11th that's right yeah so folks can uh 11th that's right yeah so folks can folks can check that out and this is a folks can check that out and this is a folks can check that out and this is a giant product launch it's your big giant product launch it's your big giant product launch it's your big product launch moment and it's product launch moment and it's product launch moment and it's absolutely boring and we should just absolutely boring and we should just absolutely boring and we should just expect Shopify to be better you should

expect Shopify to be better you should expect Shopify to be better you should expect everything to be better and you expect everything to be better and you expect everything to be better and you should expect things to work the way should expect things to work the way should expect things to work the way that you would have imagined right it's that you would have imagined right it's that you would have imagined right it's like when you buy you know it's like like when you buy you know it's like like when you buy you know it's like what's great about I don't know I'm kind what's great about I don't know I'm kind what's great about I don't know I'm kind of a bit of again you're Microsoft but of a bit of again you're Microsoft but of a bit of again you're Microsoft but like I'm a bit of an apple Fanboy do you like I'm a bit of an apple Fanboy do you like I'm a bit of an apple Fanboy do you know what's the best I'm not know what's the best I'm not know what's the best I'm not denominational to be clear denominational to be clear denominational to be clear right but it's like you know the Apple right but it's like you know the Apple right but it's like you know the Apple stuff it's like is the iPhone the best stuff it's like is the iPhone the best stuff it's like is the iPhone the best phone maybe maybe not but it connects to phone maybe maybe not but it connects to phone maybe maybe not but it connects to the head to the airpods and the the head to the airpods and the the head to the airpods and the ecosystem it's perfectly integrated into ecosystem it's perfectly integrated into ecosystem it's perfectly integrated into everything and every time I I I unwrap a everything and every time I I I unwrap a everything and every time I I I unwrap a new Apple product it just instantly new Apple product it just instantly new Apple product it just instantly connects to everything and I never have connects to everything and I never have connects to everything and I never have that thing where I'm like oh well you've that thing where I'm like oh well you've that thing where I'm like oh well you've got headphones and you've got tablets got headphones and you've got tablets got headphones and you've got tablets but for some reason the headphones won't but for some reason the headphones won't but for some reason the headphones won't work with the tablet that never happens work with the tablet that never happens work with the tablet that never happens and I'm like that's what what great and I'm like that's what what great and I'm like that's what what great software should be like it's like that software should be like it's like that software should be like it's like that thing where you're like what why and the thing where you're like what why and the thing where you're like what why and the answer as we just talked about is always answer as we just talked about is always answer as we just talked about is always well it's the X team and the Y team and well it's the X team and the Y team and well it's the X team and the Y team and they just didn't talk and that's like they just didn't talk and that's like they just didn't talk and that's like the worst answer in the world so this the worst answer in the world so this the worst answer in the world so this addition is all about how do we make addition is all about how do we make addition is all about how do we make performance better how do we make things performance better how do we make things performance better how do we make things that should work together work together that should work together work together that should work together work together beautifully how do we make things more beautifully how do we make things more beautifully how do we make things more reliable how do we make the developer reliable how do we make the developer reliable how do we make the developer experience of something that is like experience of something that is like experience of something that is like possible but kind of annoying just possible but kind of annoying just possible but kind of annoying just really really like fun and it's not really really like fun and it's not really really like fun and it's not about here's a million new bells and

about here's a million new bells and about here's a million new bells and whistles fantastic so people who have whistles fantastic so people who have whistles fantastic so people who have not used Shopify now is the time jump in not used Shopify now is the time jump in not used Shopify now is the time jump in and if you are a longtime fan you're and if you are a longtime fan you're and if you are a longtime fan you're just going to go like oh everything got just going to go like oh everything got just going to go like oh everything got better on December 11th exactly and the better on December 11th exactly and the better on December 11th exactly and the funny thing is is like I would talk to funny thing is is like I would talk to funny thing is is like I would talk to when I would talk to our customers this when I would talk to our customers this when I would talk to our customers this is the stuff that they want like when I is the stuff that they want like when I is the stuff that they want like when I go to you know these we do you know go to you know these we do you know go to you know these we do you know panels with our customers and we hear panels with our customers and we hear panels with our customers and we hear what they interested what they interested what they interested in it's so rare that one of them will in it's so rare that one of them will in it's so rare that one of them will come up to me and be like you know what come up to me and be like you know what come up to me and be like you know what Glenn do you know what I wish sh if I Glenn do you know what I wish sh if I Glenn do you know what I wish sh if I would do like rocket ships would do like rocket ships would do like rocket ships or you know tunnel underneath different or you know tunnel underneath different or you know tunnel underneath different cities or like get into digital cars cities or like get into digital cars cities or like get into digital cars like they never say anything like that like they never say anything like that like they never say anything like that they always come up to me and they're they always come up to me and they're they always come up to me and they're like hey um why doesn't draft orders like hey um why doesn't draft orders like hey um why doesn't draft orders work with B2B or they come up to me work with B2B or they come up to me work with B2B or they come up to me they're like hey um why don't gift cards they're like hey um why don't gift cards they're like hey um why don't gift cards work on hydrogen it's always something work on hydrogen it's always something work on hydrogen it's always something like that and they're like please like like that and they're like please like like that and they're like please like I've got so much stuff to do in my I've got so much stuff to do in my I've got so much stuff to do in my business that is like commanding my business that is like commanding my business that is like commanding my attention and what I don't want to be attention and what I don't want to be attention and what I don't want to be doing is trying to like plug your two doing is trying to like plug your two doing is trying to like plug your two apis together to do the thing that they apis together to do the thing that they apis together to do the thing that they probably should be doing inside the box probably should be doing inside the box probably should be doing inside the box and so I think we're just trying to make and so I think we're just trying to make and so I think we're just trying to make this one of the most dialed in like this one of the most dialed in like this one of the most dialed in like beautiful pieces of software that's I beautiful pieces of software that's I beautiful pieces of software that's I think we expect this in the world of think we expect this in the world of think we expect this in the world of consumer products I think all the words consumer products I think all the words consumer products I think all the words that I'm saying if someone's like yeah that I'm saying if someone's like yeah that I'm saying if someone's like yeah that's how my iPhone works like of that's how my iPhone works like of that's how my iPhone works like of course it works like that you want to course it works like that you want to course it works like that you want to raise the expectation for this kind of raise the expectation for this kind of raise the expectation for this kind of stuff you just said at the beginning stuff you just said at the beginning stuff you just said at the beginning that this is about human Commerce and if

that this is about human Commerce and if that this is about human Commerce and if you can model it in the practice of you can model it in the practice of you can model it in the practice of human Commerce you should be able to human Commerce you should be able to human Commerce you should be able to model it in the back end of your Shopify model it in the back end of your Shopify model it in the back end of your Shopify shop yeah fantastic I think shop yeah fantastic I think shop yeah fantastic I think there's the only thing I'll say is like there's the only thing I'll say is like there's the only thing I'll say is like like shop fight is as a company quite like shop fight is as a company quite like shop fight is as a company quite successful now right I think you know successful now right I think you know successful now right I think you know today we're doing north of 10% of all today we're doing north of 10% of all today we're doing north of 10% of all e-commerce in the US you know shight is e-commerce in the US you know shight is e-commerce in the US you know shight is sort of in an in a in a strong Market sort of in an in a in a strong Market sort of in an in a in a strong Market position and you know I spent most of my position and you know I spent most of my position and you know I spent most of my career in companies that were not in a career in companies that were not in a career in companies that were not in a strong Market position right like strong Market position right like strong Market position right like smaller companies companies that were smaller companies companies that were smaller companies companies that were like startups finding survival get the like startups finding survival get the like startups finding survival get the next round of funding competitors next round of funding competitors next round of funding competitors everywhere and shopy has been successful everywhere and shopy has been successful everywhere and shopy has been successful enough to you it's not that we don't enough to you it's not that we don't enough to you it's not that we don't have competitors but I think I am in the have competitors but I think I am in the have competitors but I think I am in the sort of sort of sort of uh I'm in the luxurious position uh I'm in the luxurious position uh I'm in the luxurious position uh for the first time in my career where uh for the first time in my career where uh for the first time in my career where there's like a little bit of that there's like a little bit of that there's like a little bit of that breathing room where you know Engineers breathing room where you know Engineers breathing room where you know Engineers are always like oh man I wish I could go are always like oh man I wish I could go are always like oh man I wish I could go back and do that thing properly and back and do that thing properly and back and do that thing properly and there's always some like business thing there's always some like business thing there's always some like business thing that's driving them to be a build the that's driving them to be a build the that's driving them to be a build the next thing before they're really next thing before they're really next thing before they're really finished with the current thing right MH finished with the current thing right MH finished with the current thing right MH and I'm like guys this is one of those and I'm like guys this is one of those and I'm like guys this is one of those moments where we should just we can moments where we should just we can moments where we should just we can actually just take a moment to breathe actually just take a moment to breathe actually just take a moment to breathe here and do it properly and and I here and do it properly and and I here and do it properly and and I actually had to stop the teams it was actually had to stop the teams it was actually had to stop the teams it was very difficult very difficult very difficult because I've actually been saying this because I've actually been saying this because I've actually been saying this internally and like dropping my weird internally and like dropping my weird internally and like dropping my weird little snow leopard emojis around in little snow leopard emojis around in little snow leopard emojis around in internally for like I don't know a year

internally for like I don't know a year internally for like I don't know a year and a half and every time I would do my and a half and every time I would do my and a half and every time I would do my meeting with my product leadership I'd meeting with my product leadership I'd meeting with my product leadership I'd say hey guys let's just turn the say hey guys let's just turn the say hey guys let's just turn the dial another 5 to 10 degrees towards dial another 5 to 10 degrees towards dial another 5 to 10 degrees towards quality and away from like new features quality and away from like new features quality and away from like new features and I would say these words and I would and I would say these words and I would and I would say these words and I would think okay everyone's going to hear me think okay everyone's going to hear me think okay everyone's going to hear me and they're going to do it but of course and they're going to do it but of course and they're going to do it but of course everyone's just like excited about everyone's just like excited about everyone's just like excited about building new stuff and everyone wants to building new stuff and everyone wants to building new stuff and everyone wants to push the envelope and it really took me push the envelope and it really took me push the envelope and it really took me this time and again I'll thank Emma Mani this time and again I'll thank Emma Mani this time and again I'll thank Emma Mani Aon the people on my team who came to me Aon the people on my team who came to me Aon the people on my team who came to me and told me this they said Glenn we and told me this they said Glenn we and told me this they said Glenn we should do the boring should do the boring should do the boring Edition and I really had to go Edition and I really had to go Edition and I really had to go internally and say hey guys literally I internally and say hey guys literally I internally and say hey guys literally I don't need any new features in the next don't need any new features in the next don't need any new features in the next Edition no one is on the hook for Edition no one is on the hook for Edition no one is on the hook for anything please take this moment to just anything please take this moment to just anything please take this moment to just go Di di it in whatever that thing is go Di di it in whatever that thing is go Di di it in whatever that thing is that you swept under the rug 34 ago and that you swept under the rug 34 ago and that you swept under the rug 34 ago and it's like keeping you up at night Now's it's like keeping you up at night Now's it's like keeping you up at night Now's the Time go do that thing and like this the Time go do that thing and like this the Time go do that thing and like this is the time to do the right thing and is the time to do the right thing and is the time to do the right thing and I'm giving you the permission to do it I'm giving you the permission to do it I'm giving you the permission to do it and and it's and it's actually worked and and it's and it's actually worked and and it's and it's actually worked now but I had to say it way more now but I had to say it way more now but I had to say it way more forcefully than I thought I would have forcefully than I thought I would have forcefully than I thought I would have to in order to get people to to to think to in order to get people to to to think to in order to get people to to to think of it that of it that of it that way very cool thank you so much for way very cool thank you so much for way very cool thank you so much for chatting with me today Glen Co thanks chatting with me today Glen Co thanks chatting with me today Glen Co thanks Scott we have been talking all about Scott we have been talking all about Scott we have been talking all about boring software and the boring edition boring software and the boring edition boring software and the boring edition of Shopify that you can check out uh on of Shopify that you can check out uh on of Shopify that you can check out uh on or after December 11th and this has been or after December 11th and this has been or after December 11th and this has been another episode of Hansel minutes and another episode of Hansel minutes and another episode of Hansel minutes and we'll see you again next week

we'll see you again next week we'll see you again next week [Music] [Music] [Music] n