EPISODE 4 - Scott & Mark Learn To... Pick a Programming Language

didn't we you and I Rift on picking a didn't we you and I Rift on picking a programming language in one of our talks programming language in one of our talks programming language in one of our talks we uh the one on on on uh on zoomit we uh the one on on on uh on zoomit we uh the one on on on uh on zoomit yeah because I was like why don't you yeah because I was like why don't you yeah because I was like why don't you just write the whole thing in Rust yeah just write the whole thing in Rust yeah just write the whole thing in Rust yeah yeah yeah yeah all right let's talk yeah yeah yeah all right let's talk yeah yeah yeah all right let's talk let's do it are we started is this a let's do it are we started is this a let's do it are we started is this a thing are we live was that a thing are we live was that a thing are we live was that a [Music] show all show all right I'll I'll just open do you want to right I'll I'll just open do you want to right I'll I'll just open do you want to open this open this open this time uh I don't know how to open oh you time uh I don't know how to open oh you time uh I don't know how to open oh you open like this you say something like open like this you say something like open like this you say something like hey friends I'm Mark hey friends I'm Mark hey friends I'm Mark renovich hey friends I'm Mark renovich renovich hey friends I'm Mark renovich renovich hey friends I'm Mark renovich yeah yeah more gra and this is my other yeah yeah more gra and this is my other yeah yeah more gra and this is my other friend Scott hansin friend Scott hansin friend Scott hansin [Music] hi um this is Mark and Scott learn to um hi um this is Mark and Scott learn to um Mark how I want to I want to pick a Mark how I want to I want to pick a Mark how I want to I want to pick a programming language and I met this guy programming language and I met this guy programming language and I met this guy who was a professor uh and he was a c who was a professor uh and he was a c who was a professor uh and he was a c programmer kind of like the original programmer kind of like the original programmer kind of like the original curly brace language K and Richie KR curly brace language K and Richie KR curly brace language K and Richie KR exactly KRC which where do you put your exactly KRC which where do you put your exactly KRC which where do you put your curly braces this way or that way these curly braces this way or that way these curly braces this way or that way these are the there was no this way or that are the there was no this way or that are the there was no this way or that way in canor there was only that way the way in canor there was only that way the way in canor there was only that way the way the way that's the correct way yeah

way the way that's the correct way yeah way the way that's the correct way yeah see there's a thing right there that's a see there's a thing right there that's a see there's a thing right there that's a whole conversation about where to put whole conversation about where to put whole conversation about where to put your curly braces um but then he your curly braces um but then he your curly braces um but then he discovered discovered discovered cotlin and it it got me thinking about cotlin and it it got me thinking about cotlin and it it got me thinking about like is that going to win is that the like is that going to win is that the like is that going to win is that the language that's going to win because I language that's going to win because I language that's going to win because I have another buddy who discovered have another buddy who discovered have another buddy who discovered erlang and I think it's fair to say erlang and I think it's fair to say erlang and I think it's fair to say erlang is not going to erlang is not going to erlang is not going to win but then what does winning mean if win but then what does winning mean if win but then what does winning mean if you're picking a programming language I you're picking a programming language I you're picking a programming language I a agree I don't think it's a winning a agree I don't think it's a winning a agree I don't think it's a winning thing but I do think that there's thing but I do think that there's thing but I do think that there's languages for different purposes um you know one of the things purposes um you know one of the things that we have a dividing line on in Azure that we have a dividing line on in Azure that we have a dividing line on in Azure and generally at Microsoft is systems and generally at Microsoft is systems and generally at Microsoft is systems code versus non-system code where code versus non-system code where code versus non-system code where systems code can't tolerate a garbage systems code can't tolerate a garbage systems code can't tolerate a garbage collection it's more real time needs to collection it's more real time needs to collection it's more real time needs to be more predictable needs to be low be more predictable needs to be low be more predictable needs to be low resource and we've traditionally used C resource and we've traditionally used C resource and we've traditionally used C C++ for that at Microsoft so you're C++ for that at Microsoft so you're C++ for that at Microsoft so you're saying it comes so you're saying systems saying it comes so you're saying systems saying it comes so you're saying systems code but it's ultimately coming down to code but it's ultimately coming down to code but it's ultimately coming down to Malak and free or let someone else do it Malak and free or let someone else do it Malak and free or let someone else do it and we don't trust that in the konel in and we don't trust that in the konel in and we don't trust that in the konel in ring zero we don't trust it's not that ring zero we don't trust it's not that ring zero we don't trust it's not that we don't trust them doing it of course we don't trust them doing it of course we don't trust them doing it of course garbage collectors are fantastic because garbage collectors are fantastic because garbage collectors are fantastic because it eliminates a variety of classes of it eliminates a variety of classes of it eliminates a variety of classes of memory safety memory safety memory safety problems uh the problem is performance problems uh the problem is performance problems uh the problem is performance and and and predictability pauses yeah not knowing predictability pauses yeah not knowing predictability pauses yeah not knowing when they're going to happen exactly when they're going to happen exactly when they're going to happen exactly yeah everybody wait we're doing a GC yeah everybody wait we're doing a GC yeah everybody wait we're doing a GC yeah okay and also memory consumption yeah okay and also memory consumption yeah okay and also memory consumption you know because you're sitting there

you know because you're sitting there you know because you're sitting there accumulating crap that you don't need accumulating crap that you don't need accumulating crap that you don't need hence the hence the hence the GC so you can't you know all of a sudden GC so you can't you know all of a sudden GC so you can't you know all of a sudden hey I need more memory all and let's go hey I need more memory all and let's go hey I need more memory all and let's go do a GC to get it is just in the middle do a GC to get it is just in the middle do a GC to get it is just in the middle of responding to something that needs to of responding to something that needs to of responding to something that needs to be real time so that said I think then there's time so that said I think then there's the non-gc languages and there the GC the non-gc languages and there the GC the non-gc languages and there the GC languages but you called it out you said languages but you called it out you said languages but you called it out you said system code and non-system code but it system code and non-system code but it system code and non-system code but it really comes down to GC versus non GC really comes down to GC versus non GC really comes down to GC versus non GC well that you map on to systems code well that you map on to systems code well that you map on to systems code versus non systems code right okay and versus non systems code right okay and versus non systems code right okay and there are many of them but why are the there are many of them but why are the there are many of them but why are the only ones we're talking about putting in only ones we're talking about putting in only ones we're talking about putting in the system are C and rust because those the system are C and rust because those the system are C and rust because those are the only mature non-gc languages and are the only mature non-gc languages and are the only mature non-gc languages and I say mature meaning there's an I say mature meaning there's an I say mature meaning there's an ecosystem of tool tooling behind them ecosystem of tool tooling behind them ecosystem of tool tooling behind them and packages for those languages and packages for those languages and packages for those languages did I ever tell you about the time my did I ever tell you about the time my did I ever tell you about the time my son and I went to son and I went to son and I went to Finland no so I take a 16- year-old to Finland no so I take a 16- year-old to Finland no so I take a 16- year-old to Finland and he notices that the Finnish Finland and he notices that the Finnish Finland and he notices that the Finnish language is weird I've told this story language is weird I've told this story language is weird I've told this story before it's a weird language it's from before it's a weird language it's from before it's a weird language it's from Mars it doesn't fit into the language Mars it doesn't fit into the language Mars it doesn't fit into the language tree of languages but the fins it works tree of languages but the fins it works tree of languages but the fins it works for them they love the language um and for them they love the language um and for them they love the language um and he said because he's 16 why do they he said because he's 16 why do they he said because he's 16 why do they bother it's not going to bother it's not going to bother it's not going to win and that was a very prac IAL win and that was a very prac IAL win and that was a very prac IAL pragmatic thing it's the kind of weird pragmatic thing it's the kind of weird pragmatic thing it's the kind of weird stuff that programmers on YouTube and tw stuff that programmers on YouTube and tw stuff that programmers on YouTube and tw Twitter say why does erlang bother why

Twitter say why does erlang bother why Twitter say why does erlang bother why does Scala care they're not going to win does Scala care they're not going to win does Scala care they're not going to win they should all just do JavaScript right they should all just do JavaScript right they should all just do JavaScript right JavaScript has become the English JavaScript has become the English JavaScript has become the English language where it's like this weird language where it's like this weird language where it's like this weird language that is stolen from all the language that is stolen from all the language that is stolen from all the other languages it was not designed it other languages it was not designed it other languages it was not designed it just happened it's not the one we just happened it's not the one we just happened it's not the one we deserve it's the language that we have deserve it's the language that we have deserve it's the language that we have so just as English is this crazy so just as English is this crazy so just as English is this crazy bastardized colonized mesh of a language bastardized colonized mesh of a language bastardized colonized mesh of a language it's a big cafeteria it's a it's a it's it's a big cafeteria it's a it's a it's it's a big cafeteria it's a it's a it's a it's a a mall in midwestern United a it's a a mall in midwestern United a it's a a mall in midwestern United States of States of States of languages JavaScript is that way English languages JavaScript is that way English languages JavaScript is that way English is that way but Finnish they feel very is that way but Finnish they feel very is that way but Finnish they feel very strong they've got a purity of language strong they've got a purity of language strong they've got a purity of language they can do you know so I told him well they can do you know so I told him well they can do you know so I told him well it's not about winning or losing they it's not about winning or losing they it's not about winning or losing they like it it makes them happy they can do like it it makes them happy they can do like it it makes them happy they can do poetry in it so let the small languages poetry in it so let the small languages poetry in it so let the small languages exist Does that analogy do you think exist Does that analogy do you think exist Does that analogy do you think work towards programming languages I work towards programming languages I work towards programming languages I think so I mean I'll I'll so first of think so I mean I'll I'll so first of think so I mean I'll I'll so first of all I want your opinion on this do you all I want your opinion on this do you all I want your opinion on this do you believe in believe in believe in there's a there's some languages that there's a there's some languages that there's a there's some languages that are better than are better than are better than others I think that languages that have others I think that languages that have others I think that languages that have and I'm talking about programming and I'm talking about programming and I'm talking about programming language not prog programming languages language not prog programming languages language not prog programming languages that have hindsight yeah I think are that have hindsight yeah I think are that have hindsight yeah I think are better like to to kotlin's credit it better like to to kotlin's credit it better like to to kotlin's credit it looked backwards and it said we're not looked backwards and it said we're not looked backwards and it said we're not making those mistakes again and did making those mistakes again and did making those mistakes again and did other stuff now they might make other other stuff now they might make other other stuff now they might make other mistakes but as a general rule I think mistakes but as a general rule I think mistakes but as a general rule I think cotlin is demonstrably better than Java cotlin is demonstrably better than Java cotlin is demonstrably better than Java so you're saying modern languages are so you're saying modern languages are so you're saying modern languages are generally better than older generally better than older generally better than older languages no I wouldn't say that because languages no I wouldn't say that because languages no I wouldn't say that because I feel like things that c did and C++ I feel like things that c did and C++ I feel like things that c did and C++ did like nailed it on the first try but did like nailed it on the first try but did like nailed it on the first try but it got resolved later in different

it got resolved later in different it got resolved later in different versions but modern languages that have versions but modern languages that have versions but modern languages that have thoughtful hindsight yes are better than thoughtful hindsight yes are better than thoughtful hindsight yes are better than than because they we know more stuff than because they we know more stuff than because they we know more stuff than our four fathers and four than our four fathers and four than our four fathers and four mothers all right so I I think we need mothers all right so I I think we need mothers all right so I I think we need to answer a question before we move on to answer a question before we move on to answer a question before we move on discussing the philosophies of discussing the philosophies of discussing the philosophies of programming languages and and that is programming languages and and that is programming languages and and that is what's your favorite programming what's your favorite programming what's your favorite programming language so unfortunately it's C because language so unfortunately it's C because language so unfortunately it's C because it's the language why is that it's the language why is that it's the language why is that unfortunate that because I want to make unfortunate that because I want to make unfortunate that because I want to make sure that I am exposed to a diverse sure that I am exposed to a diverse sure that I am exposed to a diverse group of languages so that I'm not being group of languages so that I'm not being group of languages so that I'm not being blinded and missing something people blinded and missing something people blinded and missing something people will say oh handsone likes C because he will say oh handsone likes C because he will say oh handsone likes C because he works at Microsoft and they pay him to works at Microsoft and they pay him to works at Microsoft and they pay him to like C right but I started in C I like C right but I started in C I like C right but I started in C I started with pets so and C well actually started with pets so and C well actually started with pets so and C well actually no I started in 6502 assembler but you no I started in 6502 assembler but you no I started in 6502 assembler but you know by the way I want to talk about know by the way I want to talk about know by the way I want to talk about that too cuz that's I started around that too cuz that's I started around that too cuz that's I started around there there there so like you know I I always talk about so like you know I I always talk about so like you know I I always talk about like stick shift versus automatic like I like stick shift versus automatic like I like stick shift versus automatic like I started riding driving stick so it's started riding driving stick so it's started riding driving stick so it's like commer 64 6502 assembler then C like commer 64 6502 assembler then C like commer 64 6502 assembler then C then C++ wait you skipped basic oh yeah then C++ wait you skipped basic oh yeah then C++ wait you skipped basic oh yeah well so basic was an interesting one I well so basic was an interesting one I well so basic was an interesting one I didn't even think about basic as a didn't even think about basic as a didn't even think about basic as a language the same way I didn't think of language the same way I didn't think of language the same way I didn't think of logo as a language logo was the turtle logo as a language logo was the turtle logo as a language logo was the turtle language where we'd move the turtle language where we'd move the turtle language where we'd move the turtle around when I when I learned basic I around when I when I learned basic I around when I when I learned basic I didn't consider it a real language I didn't consider it a real language I didn't consider it a real language I thought it was just a toy that they used thought it was just a toy that they used thought it was just a toy that they used to tease children but then when I went to tease children but then when I went to tease children but then when I went did Visual did Visual did Visual Basic I uh it clicked for me because Basic I uh it clicked for me because Basic I uh it clicked for me because like visual Basics thing wasn't the

like visual Basics thing wasn't the like visual Basics thing wasn't the language it was the Wind forms yeah language it was the Wind forms yeah language it was the Wind forms yeah thing the drag a button double click thing the drag a button double click thing the drag a button double click button by way I just saw somebody said button by way I just saw somebody said button by way I just saw somebody said visual they got Visual Basic working oh visual they got Visual Basic working oh visual they got Visual Basic working oh yeah it's back there's a whole yeah it's back there's a whole yeah it's back there's a whole Resurgence of Visual Basic levers but Resurgence of Visual Basic levers but Resurgence of Visual Basic levers but then Deli so I was huge in Deli and I then Deli so I was huge in Deli and I then Deli so I was huge in Deli and I would write Deli and thunk into inline would write Deli and thunk into inline would write Deli and thunk into inline assembler so I shipped commercial assembler so I shipped commercial assembler so I shipped commercial products you that had were written in products you that had were written in products you that had were written in Deli at one oh yeah so did I I've got Deli at one oh yeah so did I I've got Deli at one oh yeah so did I I've got I've actually got one yeah where's my I've actually got one yeah where's my I've actually got one yeah where's my I've got one of my first applications I've got one of my first applications I've got one of my first applications see now I'm going to jump up and people see now I'm going to jump up and people see now I'm going to jump up and people are going to have to cut this out are going to have to cut this out are going to have to cut this out because I'm going to grab a piece of because I'm going to grab a piece of because I'm going to grab a piece of software why they have to cut it software why they have to cut it software why they have to cut it out well because you're looking at my out well because you're looking at my out well because you're looking at my butt probably right now I'm not looking butt probably right now I'm not looking butt probably right now I'm not looking at it well trying not to trying not to at it well trying not to trying not to at it well trying not to trying not to I'll look at the rest of your office I'll look at the rest of your office I'll look at the rest of your office while you're doing that look at the rest while you're doing that look at the rest while you're doing that look at the rest of my office while I look for my piece of my office while I look for my piece of my office while I look for my piece of software of software of software because in 199 something because in 199 something because in 199 something something I wrote a piece of something I wrote a piece of something I wrote a piece of software called foolproof God dang software called foolproof God dang software called foolproof God dang it it's around here somewhere but it's it it's around here somewhere but it's it it's around here somewhere but it's written in it was right on the edge of written in it was right on the edge of written in it was right on the edge of Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 and we had to Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 and we had to Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 and we had to ship a 16-bit version and a 32-bit ship a 16-bit version and a 32-bit ship a 16-bit version and a 32-bit version at the same time but we didn't version at the same time but we didn't version at the same time but we didn't want to write the middle part of the want to write the middle part of the want to write the middle part of the code twice so we thunked around and then code twice so we thunked around and then code twice so we thunked around and then I needed to write a UI in I needed to write a UI in I needed to write a UI in Deli so it was one of those mishos type Deli so it was one of those mishos type Deli so it was one of those mishos type applications and we had a turbo Vision applications and we had a turbo Vision applications and we had a turbo Vision dos version calling into our main shared

dos version calling into our main shared dos version calling into our main shared library and then we had a deli front end library and then we had a deli front end library and then we had a deli front end for Windows 95 and then we had a wi 32c for Windows 95 and then we had a wi 32c for Windows 95 and then we had a wi 32c front end it was called foolproof front end it was called foolproof front end it was called foolproof software and it was meant to keep kids software and it was meant to keep kids software and it was meant to keep kids from breaking into the librarian's from breaking into the librarian's from breaking into the librarian's computer and the remember that yeah we computer and the remember that yeah we computer and the remember that yeah we would sneak into the library with a boot would sneak into the library with a boot would sneak into the library with a boot dis and like get away from you know so dis and like get away from you know so dis and like get away from you know so we we wrote a boot sector virus we we wrote a boot sector virus we we wrote a boot sector virus that was a boot SE it was a formal that was a boot SE it was a formal that was a boot SE it was a formal literal boot sector virus to prevent literal boot sector virus to prevent literal boot sector virus to prevent people from booting into um uh the uh people from booting into um uh the uh people from booting into um uh the uh the a drive without holding down certain the a drive without holding down certain the a drive without holding down certain keys but the front end of that was keys but the front end of that was keys but the front end of that was written in Deli written in Deli written in Deli sorry was great my Deli stories uh so sorry was great my Deli stories uh so sorry was great my Deli stories uh so we're writing Windows Administration we're writing Windows Administration we're writing Windows Administration software at winternals for like disde software at winternals for like disde software at winternals for like disde fragmentation and recovery and the the fragmentation and recovery and the the fragmentation and recovery and the the way that the ux standard for management way that the ux standard for management way that the ux standard for management tools was MMC Microsoft Management tools was MMC Microsoft Management tools was MMC Microsoft Management console which was a C+ plus com console which was a C+ plus com console which was a C+ plus com driven uh driven uh driven uh platform and and anybody that's done platform and and anybody that's done platform and and anybody that's done that knows what what a nightmare it is that knows what what a nightmare it is that knows what what a nightmare it is oh yeah um and so I'm like I'm not oh yeah um and so I'm like I'm not oh yeah um and so I'm like I'm not dealing with this so I Del I figured out dealing with this so I Del I figured out dealing with this so I Del I figured out how to get delie working so that I could how to get delie working so that I could how to get delie working so that I could write ux code for MMC snap-ins using write ux code for MMC snap-ins using write ux code for MMC snap-ins using dely and it was much much better dely and it was much much better dely and it was much much better experience yeah why is it that the Danes experience yeah why is it that the Danes experience yeah why is it that the Danes are so good at writing programming are so good at writing programming are so good at writing programming languages you mean the Dane like Anders languages you mean the Dane like Anders languages you mean the Dane like Anders well there's the Dane I think there was well there's the Dane I think there was well there's the Dane I think there was one other Dane yeah um but yeah I'm just

one other Dane yeah um but yeah I'm just one other Dane yeah um but yeah I'm just saying like Anders did dely and turo saying like Anders did dely and turo saying like Anders did dely and turo Pascal and CT I'm asking I'm asking uh co-pilot why CT I'm asking I'm asking uh co-pilot why are the Dan so good at making are the Dan so good at making are the Dan so good at making programming languages we'll see what it programming languages we'll see what it programming languages we'll see what it so the the idea of my son trying to get so the the idea of my son trying to get so the the idea of my son trying to get the you why would why would this thing the you why would why would this thing the you why would why would this thing win like the kids want things to win win like the kids want things to win win like the kids want things to win strw strub is strw strub is strw strub is Danish yeah well C++ then yeah yeah yeah Danish yeah well C++ then yeah yeah yeah Danish yeah well C++ then yeah yeah yeah I was talking to him on LinkedIn he just I was talking to him on LinkedIn he just I was talking to him on LinkedIn he just uh put a book out I was talking to him a uh put a book out I was talking to him a uh put a book out I was talking to him a couple days ago um C++ book yeah yeah couple days ago um C++ book yeah yeah couple days ago um C++ book yeah yeah like the whatever final version updated like the whatever final version updated like the whatever final version updated version kind of a thing want to get him version kind of a thing want to get him version kind of a thing want to get him on the podcast um but like like he was on the podcast um but like like he was on the podcast um but like like he was like yeah why why don't they win so like like yeah why why don't they win so like like yeah why why don't they win so like JavaScript people who are like in on JavaScript people who are like in on JavaScript people who are like in on JavaScript in the front end and the back JavaScript in the front end and the back JavaScript in the front end and the back end are like why do you bother with end are like why do you bother with end are like why do you bother with these other esoteric languages and I these other esoteric languages and I these other esoteric languages and I think it's just CU there's there's joy think it's just CU there's there's joy think it's just CU there's there's joy in not having a monoculture around in not having a monoculture around in not having a monoculture around programming languages I think that's programming languages I think that's programming languages I think that's part of it um but there's also different part of it um but there's also different part of it um but there's also different um there's stylistic differences between um there's stylistic differences between um there's stylistic differences between them and people have stylistic them and people have stylistic them and people have stylistic preferences preferences preferences MH well that's why I think the language MH well that's why I think the language MH well that's why I think the language human language parallel works because human language parallel works because human language parallel works because there's like words in Span spish that there's like words in Span spish that there's like words in Span spish that are paragraphs in English but you just are paragraphs in English but you just are paragraphs in English but you just pick the right word you know or like the pick the right word you know or like the pick the right word you know or like the way the way we steal like Umami by the way the way we steal like Umami by the way the way we steal like Umami by the way uhud there was a study recently done way uhud there was a study recently done way uhud there was a study recently done to to look at the information density of to to look at the information density of to to look at the information density of languages across the world yeah because

languages across the world yeah because languages across the world yeah because the the belief is that languages that the the belief is that languages that the the belief is that languages that are spoken faster are transmitting in are spoken faster are transmitting in are spoken faster are transmitting in information at higher bandwidth than information at higher bandwidth than information at higher bandwidth than ones that are more slowly spoken I ones that are more slowly spoken I ones that are more slowly spoken I remember this I saw this this where remember this I saw this this where remember this I saw this this where you're going yeah and the answer is drum you're going yeah and the answer is drum you're going yeah and the answer is drum roll they're all about the same they're roll they're all about the same they're roll they're all about the same they're all about the same because they have to all about the same because they have to all about the same because they have to use extra words my wife's language my use extra words my wife's language my use extra words my wife's language my wife speaks uh Northern endell which is wife speaks uh Northern endell which is wife speaks uh Northern endell which is a inoni language that's sounds like Zulu a inoni language that's sounds like Zulu a inoni language that's sounds like Zulu or isosa and when she speaks Elli with or isosa and when she speaks Elli with or isosa and when she speaks Elli with her Mom it sounds unbelievably fast but her Mom it sounds unbelievably fast but her Mom it sounds unbelievably fast but it's because they only have a couple it's because they only have a couple it's because they only have a couple hundred thousand words so they'll end up hundred thousand words so they'll end up hundred thousand words so they'll end up using a bunch of extra words to say using a bunch of extra words to say using a bunch of extra words to say stuff that they could have used lone stuff that they could have used lone stuff that they could have used lone words for and that's why I think English words for and that's why I think English words for and that's why I think English other than colonialism is so popular as other than colonialism is so popular as other than colonialism is so popular as a language is that we're Unapologetic a language is that we're Unapologetic a language is that we're Unapologetic about stealing words yeah so you're just about stealing words yeah so you're just about stealing words yeah so you're just like oh yeah we'll meet you in the foyer like oh yeah we'll meet you in the foyer like oh yeah we'll meet you in the foyer oh you the foyer you know we'll just oh you the foyer you know we'll just oh you the foyer you know we'll just make they'll just steal that word and make they'll just steal that word and make they'll just steal that word and make it it's an English word now uh make it it's an English word now uh make it it's an English word now uh rather than come up with a room for the rather than come up with a room for the rather than come up with a room for the entry way to the front of the house you entry way to the front of the house you entry way to the front of the house you know know know um you didn't ask me my Lang favorite um you didn't ask me my Lang favorite um you didn't ask me my Lang favorite language what's your favorite language language what's your favorite language language what's your favorite language Mark Mark Mark renovich I don't have one dick actually and I really don't I'm one dick actually and I really don't I'm I'm pretty agnostic about it I I'll use I'm pretty agnostic about it I I'll use I'm pretty agnostic about it I I'll use whatever um what I used and still use a whatever um what I used and still use a whatever um what I used and still use a lot is C and C++ because the CIS inter lot is C and C++ because the CIS inter lot is C and C++ because the CIS inter internals tool suite are all written in internals tool suite are all written in internals tool suite are all written in C C++ yeah like you and I did that C C++ yeah like you and I did that C C++ yeah like you and I did that presentation on zoomit which with the

presentation on zoomit which with the presentation on zoomit which with the the infamous 5000 line yeah yeah if the infamous 5000 line yeah yeah if the infamous 5000 line yeah yeah if folks if folks tolerate this podcast you folks if folks tolerate this podcast you folks if folks tolerate this podcast you might also tolerate our our talk we did might also tolerate our our talk we did might also tolerate our our talk we did and uh I said let's go and fix a bug and and uh I said let's go and fix a bug and and uh I said let's go and fix a bug and zoom it and he's like oh yeah I'll give zoom it and he's like oh yeah I'll give zoom it and he's like oh yeah I'll give you access to the code I felt very you access to the code I felt very you access to the code I felt very special I felt like I'd been asked into special I felt like I'd been asked into special I felt like I'd been asked into like this back room archive or whatever like this back room archive or whatever like this back room archive or whatever the elegant code that is zoomit and it the elegant code that is zoomit and it the elegant code that is zoomit and it was one main.c that's like 5,000 lines was one main.c that's like 5,000 lines was one main.c that's like 5,000 lines and I was like speaking of the code to and I was like speaking of the code to and I was like speaking of the code to zoomit I announced this just recently zoomit I announced this just recently zoomit I announced this just recently that zoomit is going into power toys as that zoomit is going into power toys as that zoomit is going into power toys as a power so it's also in power toys as a power so it's also in power toys as a power so it's also in power toys as well as a standalone so yeah which means well as a standalone so yeah which means well as a standalone so yeah which means it'll it's a it'll be open source you it'll it's a it'll be open source you it'll it's a it'll be open source you have secured your legacy have secured your legacy have secured your legacy yeah uh I've made it you finally made it yeah uh I've made it you finally made it yeah uh I've made it you finally made it you're in power power to actually this you're in power power to actually this you're in power power to actually this is let me show you this now he's running is let me show you this now he's running is let me show you this now he's running away okay he's run off somewhere he's away okay he's run off somewhere he's away okay he's run off somewhere he's coming back I mention whoops I mentioned coming back I mention whoops I mentioned coming back I mention whoops I mentioned this in the uh I think in that talk um this in the uh I think in that talk um this in the uh I think in that talk um but I got to Microsoft in 2006 I'd but I got to Microsoft in 2006 I'd but I got to Microsoft in 2006 I'd already written Zoom it because I'd already written Zoom it because I'd already written Zoom it because I'd written that in the early 2000s for written that in the early 2000s for written that in the early 2000s for helping doing helping doing helping doing presentations and uh at this internal presentations and uh at this internal presentations and uh at this internal conference called whips which is the conference called whips which is the conference called whips which is the windows windows windows Hardware something comp I can't remember Hardware something comp I can't remember Hardware something comp I can't remember yeah they renamed it it's it's called yeah they renamed it it's it's called yeah they renamed it it's it's called Reverb now anyway so I got invited to go Reverb now anyway so I got invited to go Reverb now anyway so I got invited to go there and then they have lightning talks there and then they have lightning talks there and then they have lightning talks and I got invited to give a lightning and I got invited to give a lightning and I got invited to give a lightning talk so I gave the lightning talk on talk so I gave the lightning talk on talk so I gave the lightning talk on Zuma because I figured it'd be good you Zuma because I figured it'd be good you Zuma because I figured it'd be good you know for people to know about its know for people to know about its know for people to know about its existence they give presentations they existence they give presentations they existence they give presentations they could use it and they give they were could use it and they give they were could use it and they give they were back then they gave Awards different for

back then they gave Awards different for back then they gave Awards different for different things at the end of whips and different things at the end of whips and different things at the end of whips and I got this award which is I got this award which is I got this award which is the the least likely to ship award for the the least likely to ship award for the the least likely to ship award for zoomit is that a Gong can you hold that zoomit is that a Gong can you hold that zoomit is that a Gong can you hold that up and a little bit of a we is this have we reached the part a we is this have we reached the part now where we run to our our um shelves now where we run to our our um shelves now where we run to our our um shelves and grab our Awards and then hold them and grab our Awards and then hold them and grab our Awards and then hold them up in front of the well this one was up in front of the well this one was up in front of the well this one was relevant I thought oh excuse me well relevant I thought oh excuse me well relevant I thought oh excuse me well then I'm going to go what is your Channel 9 award it's my go what is your Channel 9 award it's my Channel 9 award for Channel 9 award for Channel 9 award for podcast wow yeah well I want to point podcast wow yeah well I want to point podcast wow yeah well I want to point out that it's not this out that it's not this out that it's not this one just throwing that out not this one just throwing that out not this one just throwing that out not this podcast no no not this podcast we are podcast no no not this podcast we are podcast no no not this podcast we are rewardless that hurts yeah yeah well you rewardless that hurts yeah yeah well you rewardless that hurts yeah yeah well you know it's only been a couple of episodes know it's only been a couple of episodes know it's only been a couple of episodes so lower your any anyway my my point was so lower your any anyway my my point was so lower your any anyway my my point was going back to my favorite language I going back to my favorite language I going back to my favorite language I write yeah still a lot of write yeah still a lot of write yeah still a lot of cc++ I don't really like cc+ plus it's cc++ I don't really like cc+ plus it's cc++ I don't really like cc+ plus it's it takes a lot of brain it takes a lot of brain it takes a lot of brain energy uh but I've been doing a lot of energy uh but I've been doing a lot of energy uh but I've been doing a lot of python the last last couple years python the last last couple years python the last last couple years because I've gotten into AI research because I've gotten into AI research because I've gotten into AI research which is if you want an example of which is if you want an example of which is if you want an example of basically you're you're forced to use a basically you're you're forced to use a basically you're you're forced to use a language for that okay so because of the language for that okay so because of the language for that okay so because of the ecosystem because of the ecosystem ecosystem because of the ecosystem ecosystem because of the ecosystem that's the thing people in my opinion that's the thing people in my opinion that's the thing people in my opinion incorrectly assume that a programming incorrectly assume that a programming incorrectly assume that a programming language takes over a space because of

language takes over a space because of language takes over a space because of some unique feature about the some unique feature about the some unique feature about the programming Sy language sometimes that's programming Sy language sometimes that's programming Sy language sometimes that's the case but as a general rule they all the case but as a general rule they all the case but as a general rule they all have similar keywords they're all kind have similar keywords they're all kind have similar keywords they're all kind of congealing into lists and Collections of congealing into lists and Collections of congealing into lists and Collections and stuff but why did python pop 10 and stuff but why did python pop 10 and stuff but why did python pop 10 years ago in ml and to data science and years ago in ml and to data science and years ago in ml and to data science and why did R and Julia pop and why did like why did R and Julia pop and why did like why did R and Julia pop and why did like C why did R not become the language for C why did R not become the language for C why did R not become the language for neural networks it's more fun to say neural networks it's more fun to say neural networks it's more fun to say python yeah easier to Google for I don't python yeah easier to Google for I don't python yeah easier to Google for I don't know that was my explanation too but any know that was my explanation too but any know that was my explanation too but any case I really I just made that up but I case I really I just made that up but I case I really I just made that up but I think it's probably true it's probably think it's probably true it's probably think it's probably true it's probably true but um but I really enjoy python um true but um but I really enjoy python um true but um but I really enjoy python um which I you know has very similar which I you know has very similar which I you know has very similar characteristics to JavaScript in terms characteristics to JavaScript in terms characteristics to JavaScript in terms of its um of its um of its um uh a reppel language as well as a a uh a reppel language as well as a a uh a reppel language as well as a a language that you can write and ship language that you can write and ship language that you can write and ship third with I was talking to Guido about third with I was talking to Guido about third with I was talking to Guido about Python and I was asking Guido who Python and I was asking Guido who Python and I was asking Guido who invented Python and I said you know do invented Python and I said you know do invented Python and I said you know do you feel like you're an you want to you feel like you're an you want to you feel like you're an you want to mention which Guido you're talking about mention which Guido you're talking about mention which Guido you're talking about Ben NOS NOS Ben Ben NOS NOS Ben Ben NOS NOS Ben Russman quo forgot his last name he's Russman quo forgot his last name he's Russman quo forgot his last name he's not gonna listen to that van rossom I not gonna listen to that van rossom I not gonna listen to that van rossom I asked him if he was an expert in Python asked him if he was an expert in Python asked him if he was an expert in Python and he says not anymore and I thought and he says not anymore and I thought and he says not anymore and I thought that was such a cool thing to say CU he that was such a cool thing to say CU he that was such a cool thing to say CU he like wrote the thing but it's beyond him like wrote the thing but it's beyond him like wrote the thing but it's beyond him now and he's like no I'm learning stuff now and he's like no I'm learning stuff now and he's like no I'm learning stuff every day and I thought that was every day and I thought that was every day and I thought that was wonderful that is so how would you pick wonderful that is so how would you pick wonderful that is so how would you pick your programming language though you did your programming language though you did your programming language though you did you pick a language or do you look at you pick a language or do you look at you pick a language or do you look at the ecosystem and then follow and then the ecosystem and then follow and then the ecosystem and then follow and then the language appears I think um if the language appears I think um if the language appears I think um if there's an ecosystem like an AI like for there's an ecosystem like an AI like for there's an ecosystem like an AI like for AI you you can't pick you just you've

AI you you can't pick you just you've AI you you can't pick you just you've got to use it you're you go to python got to use it you're you go to python got to use it you're you go to python just because you have to um there's just because you have to um there's just because you have to um there's other places where hey I'm going to other places where hey I'm going to other places where hey I'm going to write some new tool what do I use and write some new tool what do I use and write some new tool what do I use and this is where I go if I'm writing at this is where I go if I'm writing at this is where I go if I'm writing at systems tool that can't garbage collect systems tool that can't garbage collect systems tool that can't garbage collect I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to use uh rust not C C++ which you can make use uh rust not C C++ which you can make use uh rust not C C++ which you can make safer are you sworn off C now like safer are you sworn off C now like safer are you sworn off C now like you're rust you'll go rust file new rust you're rust you'll go rust file new rust you're rust you'll go rust file new rust um a few years ago in Azure I declared a um a few years ago in Azure I declared a um a few years ago in Azure I declared a policy of no new cc++ code so new code policy of no new cc++ code so new code policy of no new cc++ code so new code in Azure if if it's system code like in Azure if if it's system code like in Azure if if it's system code like we've got in our boost accelerated we've got in our boost accelerated we've got in our boost accelerated offload card which has Linux on it and offload card which has Linux on it and offload card which has Linux on it and the Agents the Agents the Agents there uh some of those were ported over there uh some of those were ported over there uh some of those were ported over from the host which was Windows based from the host which was Windows based from the host which was Windows based cc++ code for systems we've been cc++ code for systems we've been cc++ code for systems we've been rewriting those in Rust and new ones are rewriting those in Rust and new ones are rewriting those in Rust and new ones are written in written in written in Rust but for nons not you know if it's Rust but for nons not you know if it's Rust but for nons not you know if it's not a systems code thing right then it's not a systems code thing right then it's not a systems code thing right then it's like Okay C python like Okay C python like Okay C python go maybe rust even but okay so why and go maybe rust even but okay so why and go maybe rust even but okay so why and why did go not become rust why is go why why did go not become rust why is go why why did go not become rust why is go why is collected because of the collection is collected because of the collection is collected because of the collection again but then rust and rust's primary again but then rust and rust's primary again but then rust and rust's primary claim to fame is its ownership system claim to fame is its ownership system claim to fame is its ownership system right so n pointer D references Family right so n pointer D references Family right so n pointer D references Family Safety and concurrency safety data races Safety and concurrency safety data races Safety and concurrency safety data races yeah yeah uh forcing like you know you yeah yeah uh forcing like you know you yeah yeah uh forcing like you know you just can't unless you use

just can't unless you use just can't unless you use unsafe keyword you cannot create a unsafe keyword you cannot create a unsafe keyword you cannot create a memory safety problem as opposed to cc++ memory safety problem as opposed to cc++ memory safety problem as opposed to cc++ which is we'll try to stop you from which is we'll try to stop you from which is we'll try to stop you from doing doing doing it but can't guarantee foot guns abound it but can't guarantee foot guns abound it but can't guarantee foot guns abound yeah yeah yeah cool I feel like I could probably pick a cool I feel like I could probably pick a cool I feel like I could probably pick a programming language at this point programming language at this point programming language at this point that's how I pick how do you that's how I pick how do you that's how I pick how do you pick I guess you you you have one choice pick I guess you you you have one choice pick I guess you you you have one choice C no well so I will say that that is a C no well so I will say that that is a C no well so I will say that that is a thing that I'm bad at is I will fail at thing that I'm bad at is I will fail at thing that I'm bad at is I will fail at C before I'll pick another one for a lot C before I'll pick another one for a lot C before I'll pick another one for a lot of stuff you know like there are you of stuff you know like there are you of stuff you know like there are you just try to force it I just kind of like just try to force it I just kind of like just try to force it I just kind of like how can I P invoke my way to Glory you how can I P invoke my way to Glory you how can I P invoke my way to Glory you know what I mean like extern see my way know what I mean like extern see my way know what I mean like extern see my way um there's a great example of some um there's a great example of some um there's a great example of some really cool work have you seen Anthony really cool work have you seen Anthony really cool work have you seen Anthony Shaw's sea snakes tool that he's been Shaw's sea snakes tool that he's been Shaw's sea snakes tool that he's been working on no dude this is hot it's C working on no dude this is hot it's C working on no dude this is hot it's C like the word c snakes and it's meant to like the word c snakes and it's meant to like the word c snakes and it's meant to be like a python but C it's a snake it's be like a python but C it's a snake it's be like a python but C it's a snake it's like a whole thing so Anthony Shaw is a like a whole thing so Anthony Shaw is a like a whole thing so Anthony Shaw is a God and he spun up a little V team he God and he spun up a little V team he God and he spun up a little V team he did a lot of really great work and then did a lot of really great work and then did a lot of really great work and then he got Guido and a bunch of other folks he got Guido and a bunch of other folks he got Guido and a bunch of other folks to do a hackathon and it lets you run to do a hackathon and it lets you run to do a hackathon and it lets you run python within C in process so it will python within C in process so it will python within C in process so it will use Source generators and you have a use Source generators and you have a use Source generators and you have a python so I just take mark. py include python so I just take mark. py include python so I just take mark. py include it say literally uh add you know using it say literally uh add you know using it say literally uh add you know using Python and then a source generator looks Python and then a source generator looks Python and then a source generator looks at the python parses it and creates a at the python parses it and creates a at the python parses it and creates a mirror Source generator version of that mirror Source generator version of that mirror Source generator version of that in and you just call it and it allows

in and you just call it and it allows in and you just call it and it allows you to then from C consume python data you to then from C consume python data you to then from C consume python data science uh libraries just pip them in science uh libraries just pip them in science uh libraries just pip them in and start calling them like pie torch and start calling them like pie torch and start calling them like pie torch that's the goal you say a goal like not that's the goal you say a goal like not that's the goal you say a goal like not yet yeah yeah well yeah they got that yet yeah yeah well yeah they got that yet yeah yeah well yeah they got that working now I'm just saying that there's working now I'm just saying that there's working now I'm just saying that there's probably edge cases we haven't thought probably edge cases we haven't thought probably edge cases we haven't thought about but the goal is pytorch the goal about but the goal is pytorch the goal about but the goal is pytorch the goal is not anything so what Anthony and the is not anything so what Anthony and the is not anything so what Anthony and the team were doing that I think is very team were doing that I think is very team were doing that I think is very thoughtful is um coming up with a way to thoughtful is um coming up with a way to thoughtful is um coming up with a way to do this but constraining it and saying do this but constraining it and saying do this but constraining it and saying we're not trying to cons like like iron we're not trying to cons like like iron we're not trying to cons like like iron Python and python. net and all the other Python and python. net and all the other Python and python. net and all the other attempts to make a python that tried to attempts to make a python that tried to attempts to make a python that tried to beet this is running python in process beet this is running python in process beet this is running python in process yeah and then just marshalling data yeah and then just marshalling data yeah and then just marshalling data across it I'll check it out yeah it's across it I'll check it out yeah it's across it I'll check it out yeah it's cool see snakes check it out cool well I cool see snakes check it out cool well I cool see snakes check it out cool well I we learned something I I think I think we learned something I I think I think we learned something I I think I think that's a show go forever how about one that's a show go forever how about one that's a show go forever how about one last thing I think oh okay list all the last thing I think oh okay list all the last thing I think oh okay list all the languages that you've coded in in your languages that you've coded in in your languages that you've coded in in your life uh that's a good question it's it's life uh that's a good question it's it's life uh that's a good question it's it's good when Mark ask questions logo basic good when Mark ask questions logo basic good when Mark ask questions logo basic gorilla when did you do logo in school gorilla when did you do logo in school gorilla when did you do logo in school like Elementary School like Elementary School like Elementary School 1983 yeah 84 yeah there there was a 1983 yeah 84 yeah there there was a 1983 yeah 84 yeah there there was a robot on a big piece of butcher paper robot on a big piece of butcher paper robot on a big piece of butcher paper with a um with a a Sharpie and it would with a um with a a Sharpie and it would with a um with a a Sharpie and it would draw spirographs yeah so we write draw spirographs yeah so we write draw spirographs yeah so we write spirographs and flowers and stuff yeah spirographs and flowers and stuff yeah spirographs and flowers and stuff yeah with a big long ribbon cable because with a big long ribbon cable because with a big long ribbon cable because there was no Wi-Fi or Wireless so we'd there was no Wi-Fi or Wireless so we'd there was no Wi-Fi or Wireless so we'd have a 20 foot ribbon cable and we'd have a 20 foot ribbon cable and we'd have a 20 foot ribbon cable and we'd make the robot draw so yeah so logo 6502

make the robot draw so yeah so logo 6502 make the robot draw so yeah so logo 6502 assembler doing the demo scene in C in assembler doing the demo scene in C in assembler doing the demo scene in C in in in in 64 uh 8086 assembler C Pet solds Book uh 64 uh 8086 assembler C Pet solds Book uh 64 uh 8086 assembler C Pet solds Book uh C++ uh with with Borland an owl uh C++ uh with with Borland an owl uh C++ uh with with Borland an owl uh then then uh turbo Pascal in in DOS with then then uh turbo Pascal in in DOS with then then uh turbo Pascal in in DOS with turbo Vision then Deli then deli with turbo Vision then Deli then deli with turbo Vision then Deli then deli with inline assembler then Visual Basic 3 inline assembler then Visual Basic 3 inline assembler then Visual Basic 3 456 Donnet visual basic.net then C cuz 456 Donnet visual basic.net then C cuz 456 Donnet visual basic.net then C cuz visual basic.net was the gateway drug to visual basic.net was the gateway drug to visual basic.net was the gateway drug to C uh C uh C uh python uh hasell for a time why that's I python uh hasell for a time why that's I python uh hasell for a time why that's I was taking a class on functional was taking a class on functional was taking a class on functional programming and that was the one they programming and that was the one they programming and that was the one they wanted us to do so then it was hascal wanted us to do so then it was hascal wanted us to do so then it was hascal old camel and then fshp came out and old camel and then fshp came out and old camel and then fshp came out and then I was like ah having that Basse then I was like ah having that Basse then I was like ah having that Basse maybe understand F better um and then um maybe understand F better um and then um maybe understand F better um and then um then all the little utility ones that then all the little utility ones that then all the little utility ones that you learn that aren't really programming you learn that aren't really programming you learn that aren't really programming langu yeah and then JavaScript langu yeah and then JavaScript langu yeah and then JavaScript yeah but I would say my JavaScript is yeah but I would say my JavaScript is yeah but I would say my JavaScript is not idiomatic because it moves so fast not idiomatic because it moves so fast not idiomatic because it moves so fast my JavaScript is stuck about 5 years ago my JavaScript is stuck about 5 years ago my JavaScript is stuck about 5 years ago yeah and then when JavaScript started yeah and then when JavaScript started yeah and then when JavaScript started taking like async and await and Promises taking like async and await and Promises taking like async and await and Promises that's when my JavaScript got a little that's when my JavaScript got a little that's when my JavaScript got a little goofy and I just said screw it and I goofy and I just said screw it and I goofy and I just said screw it and I went to went to went to typescript yeah okay yeah I think that's typescript yeah okay yeah I think that's typescript yeah okay yeah I think that's it there's probably a couple more but it there's probably a couple more but it there's probably a couple more but those are other peripheral those are other peripheral those are other peripheral languages was that an acceptable list languages was that an acceptable list languages was that an acceptable list was great it's a great list what about

was great it's a great list what about was great it's a great list what about yourself did you list yours out uh we yourself did you list yours out uh we yourself did you list yours out uh we don't have that kind of don't have that kind of don't have that kind of time people are gonna be like checking time people are gonna be like checking time people are gonna be like checking their watches my first one was uh basic apple watches my first one was uh basic apple 2 applesoft that's good that's good uh 2 applesoft that's good that's good uh 2 applesoft that's good that's good uh machine language for 6502 8088 8088 um SE a bunch of assembly languages for um SE a bunch of assembly languages for um SE a bunch of assembly languages for other other other processors uh turbo processors uh turbo processors uh turbo Pascal uh uh Pascal uh uh Pascal uh uh Deli um is it delie or Deli um is it delie or Deli um is it delie or Deli say Deli and I'm gonna own that all Deli say Deli and I'm gonna own that all Deli say Deli and I'm gonna own that all right Deli fine yeah uh right Deli fine yeah uh right Deli fine yeah uh cc++ Fortran never did Fortran yeah I did Fortran never did Fortran yeah I did that in my master's program uh and then that in my master's program uh and then that in my master's program uh and then at CMU we had programming language class at CMU we had programming language class at CMU we had programming language class said small talk did blah lisp oh lisp said small talk did blah lisp oh lisp said small talk did blah lisp oh lisp yeah missed that one yes that did that yeah missed that one yes that did that yeah missed that one yes that did that all the all the all the all the all the all the car and python python JavaScript I think that's it okay and JavaScript I think that's it okay and JavaScript I think that's it okay and which one do you dream which one do you dream which one do you dream in I still probably dream in C yeah yeah in I still probably dream in C yeah yeah in I still probably dream in C yeah yeah I think I dream in a nonsp specific I think I dream in a nonsp specific I think I dream in a nonsp specific cly an abstract curly brace language

cly an abstract curly brace language cly an abstract curly brace language because I was look dream an i because I was look dream an i because I was look dream an i Cottin's like like I looked at cotland Cottin's like like I looked at cotland Cottin's like like I looked at cotland it's like you squish your eyes it's it's like you squish your eyes it's it's like you squish your eyes it's every it's everything it just depends on every it's everything it just depends on every it's everything it just depends on where you put your braces yeah all right where you put your braces yeah all right where you put your braces yeah all right um I don't know if this one had value or um I don't know if this one had value or um I don't know if this one had value or not but I enjoyed it I learned a lot not but I enjoyed it I learned a lot not but I enjoyed it I learned a lot yeah I did too yeah that's cool uh be yeah I did too yeah that's cool uh be yeah I did too yeah that's cool uh be sure to check us out at Mark andscott sure to check us out at Mark andscott sure to check us out at Mark andscott learn learn learn to.com or if you're sassy Mark andscott to.com or if you're sassy Mark andscott to.com or if you're sassy Mark andscott learn.to which I thought was a nice uh a learn.to which I thought was a nice uh a learn.to which I thought was a nice uh a nice get from our producer appreciate nice get from our producer appreciate nice get from our producer appreciate you getting that for us uh feel feel you getting that for us uh feel feel you getting that for us uh feel feel free to oh it's Scott and Mark I forgot free to oh it's Scott and Mark I forgot free to oh it's Scott and Mark I forgot I have to correct myself it's Scott Mark I have to correct myself it's Scott Mark I have to correct myself it's Scott Mark you're not going to find anything of you're not going to find anything of you're not going to find anything of those other domains we didn't even buy those other domains we didn't even buy those other domains we didn't even buy those Scott learns it's just Scott and those Scott learns it's just Scott and those Scott learns it's just Scott and another guy learn to do some stuff we're another guy learn to do some stuff we're another guy learn to do some stuff we're going to need to buy those domains and going to need to buy those domains and going to need to buy those domains and redirect them to the redirect them to the redirect them to the canonical canonical canonical canonical canonical canonical domain uh but check us out like And domain uh but check us out like And domain uh but check us out like And subscribe and help us out by sharing subscribe and help us out by sharing subscribe and help us out by sharing this on your favorite social network this on your favorite social network this on your favorite social network that's not evil and we'll see you again that's not evil and we'll see you again that's not evil and we'll see you again next week