EPISODE 32 - Scott & Mark Learn To... Are Apps Dead?

Mark, are we getting to the point where Mark, are we getting to the point where it's going to be there's no apps? It's it's going to be there's no apps? It's it's going to be there's no apps? It's just talk to and disembodied agent. And just talk to and disembodied agent. And just talk to and disembodied agent. And >> I know you're poking I know you're >> I know you're poking I know you're >> I know you're poking I know you're poking me cuz we've talked about this poking me cuz we've talked about this poking me cuz we've talked about this and I I my head explodes when people say and I I my head explodes when people say and I I my head explodes when people say apps are dead or SAS is dead. apps are dead or SAS is dead. apps are dead or SAS is dead. >> Okay. Mark and Scott learned that apps >> Okay. Mark and Scott learned that apps >> Okay. Mark and Scott learned that apps are not dead. I'm I'm interested in your are not dead. I'm I'm interested in your are not dead. I'm I'm interested in your your take. your take. your take. [music] I know that one of the things that I I know that one of the things that I think we need to think about, we need to think we need to think about, we need to think we need to think about, we need to work on is that [snorts] Mark and I feel work on is that [snorts] Mark and I feel work on is that [snorts] Mark and I feel like once we've done a topic, we've done like once we've done a topic, we've done like once we've done a topic, we've done a topic and the topic is now done. a topic and the topic is now done. a topic and the topic is now done. >> Yeah. But there's there's the agentic >> Yeah. But there's there's the agentic >> Yeah. But there's there's the agentic fun explorations and people really like fun explorations and people really like fun explorations and people really like these shows because it's real world and these shows because it's real world and these shows because it's real world and it's factual and it's it's got clarity. it's factual and it's it's got clarity. it's factual and it's it's got clarity. Um, so that means that it's, you know, Um, so that means that it's, you know, Um, so that means that it's, you know, Mark and Scott Vibe Code for the sixth Mark and Scott Vibe Code for the sixth Mark and Scott Vibe Code for the sixth time. So it makes a little hard for time. So it makes a little hard for time. So it makes a little hard for naming, but that's not a bad show. It's naming, but that's not a bad show. It's naming, but that's not a bad show. It's just not just not just not a topic. I do think that we should start a topic. I do think that we should start a topic. I do think that we should start looking at hacker news and tech meme and looking at hacker news and tech meme and looking at hacker news and tech meme and finding things that are somewhat topical finding things that are somewhat topical finding things that are somewhat topical but not necessarily something that's but not necessarily something that's but not necessarily something that's going to get us to spin a news cycle.

going to get us to spin a news cycle. going to get us to spin a news cycle. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> That we can talk about that Frank will >> That we can talk about that Frank will >> That we can talk about that Frank will get mad about. get mad about. get mad about. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Because um like like like my like tuies >> Because um like like like my like tuies >> Because um like like like my like tuies like I'm really excited about twoies like I'm really excited about twoies like I'm really excited about twoies right now. Um text and right now. Um text and right now. Um text and >> I don't I mean this Yeah. You know what >> I don't I mean this Yeah. You know what >> I don't I mean this Yeah. You know what T-M T-M T-M agree agree agree >> T-Mux is becoming like the everybody's >> T-Mux is becoming like the everybody's >> T-Mux is becoming like the everybody's awesome tool of choice now. Have you awesome tool of choice now. Have you awesome tool of choice now. Have you seen that? seen that? seen that? >> Yeah, dude. But that there's also >> Yeah, dude. But that there's also >> Yeah, dude. But that there's also arguments. So that's a show like that we arguments. So that's a show like that we arguments. So that's a show like that we can talk about ties can talk about ties can talk about ties >> because Jay has asked me to do a video >> because Jay has asked me to do a video >> because Jay has asked me to do a video on tuies and I did a whole deep research on tuies and I did a whole deep research on tuies and I did a whole deep research thing and I spun up a bunch of agents to thing and I spun up a bunch of agents to thing and I spun up a bunch of agents to experiment on different tuy styles and experiment on different tuy styles and experiment on different tuy styles and then then MCP UI. Goose just released then then MCP UI. Goose just released then then MCP UI. Goose just released MCP UI but they're doing it with Chrome MCP UI but they're doing it with Chrome MCP UI but they're doing it with Chrome and canvas. And [snorts] another guy did and canvas. And [snorts] another guy did and canvas. And [snorts] another guy did clawed clawed clawed canvas. So basically you're asking it to canvas. So basically you're asking it to canvas. So basically you're asking it to prototype stuff. Should it prototype and prototype stuff. Should it prototype and prototype stuff. Should it prototype and react? Should it automate Chrome? Should react? Should it automate Chrome? Should react? Should it automate Chrome? Should it make a new TUI? Should it, you know, it make a new TUI? Should it, you know, it make a new TUI? Should it, you know, how do you manage agent swarms? What's how do you manage agent swarms? What's how do you manage agent swarms? What's the cube cuddle for agents? Like there's the cube cuddle for agents? Like there's the cube cuddle for agents? Like there's a lot of fun conversations happening a lot of fun conversations happening a lot of fun conversations happening there. People are using tuys because there. People are using tuys because there. People are using tuys because they're tired of the weight.

they're tired of the weight. they're tired of the weight. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Of of, you know, web view 2. >> Of of, you know, web view 2. >> Of of, you know, web view 2. >> Huh. >> Huh. >> Huh. >> I don't necessarily think that that >> I don't necessarily think that that >> I don't necessarily think that that means that the next thing is terminals means that the next thing is terminals means that the next thing is terminals again. Well, um, that ties into another again. Well, um, that ties into another again. Well, um, that ties into another debate that I've even just had with some debate that I've even just had with some debate that I've even just had with some people yesterday of is the are apps people yesterday of is the are apps people yesterday of is the are apps dead? Somebody claimed. dead? Somebody claimed. dead? Somebody claimed. >> Well, but see, Sam Salach said apps are >> Well, but see, Sam Salach said apps are >> Well, but see, Sam Salach said apps are dead. And I'm like, no, they're not. dead. And I'm like, no, they're not. dead. And I'm like, no, they're not. >> But see, this is the thing, right? What >> But see, this is the thing, right? What >> But see, this is the thing, right? What is an app is a whole philosophical is an app is a whole philosophical is an app is a whole philosophical conversation that we can have. But we conversation that we can have. But we conversation that we can have. But we said our app's dead when decom came out said our app's dead when decom came out said our app's dead when decom came out >> and everything was going to be a decom, >> and everything was going to be a decom, >> and everything was going to be a decom, you know, you know, you know, >> that I I an app for me is something that >> that I I an app for me is something that >> that I I an app for me is something that has a user interface that lets something has a user interface that lets something has a user interface that lets something that is that is that is >> uh durable, a piece of code that's >> uh durable, a piece of code that's >> uh durable, a piece of code that's durable and has a user interface. durable and has a user interface. durable and has a user interface. >> That's what I would call an app. >> That's what I would call an app. >> That's what I would call an app. >> So David Fowler vibe coded tally his >> So David Fowler vibe coded tally his >> So David Fowler vibe coded tally his money system. It has no user interface. money system. It has no user interface. money system. It has no user interface. That's you open the GitHub CLI or you That's you open the GitHub CLI or you That's you open the GitHub CLI or you open cloud code and then it uses its open cloud code and then it uses its open cloud code and then it uses its tool calls and it transforms it into a tool calls and it transforms it into a tool calls and it transforms it into a money.

money. money. >> Let me say user or a API interface. >> Let me say user or a API interface. >> Let me say user or a API interface. >> Okay. API interface. So the API >> Okay. API interface. So the API >> Okay. API interface. So the API interface in the case of tally is it's a interface in the case of tally is it's a interface in the case of tally is it's a CLI. CLI. CLI. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But it is I you know when people say an >> But it is I you know when people say an >> But it is I you know when people say an app is dead I think what they're saying app is dead I think what they're saying app is dead I think what they're saying is you know what we're just going to you is you know what we're just going to you is you know what we're just going to you you want to do something you're just you want to do something you're just you want to do something you're just going to ask the chatbot to do it. Well, going to ask the chatbot to do it. Well, going to ask the chatbot to do it. Well, yeah, you're just going to say, "Oh, you yeah, you're just going to say, "Oh, you yeah, you're just going to say, "Oh, you know what? Uh, go go go here. Uh, here's know what? Uh, go go go here. Uh, here's know what? Uh, go go go here. Uh, here's my expense reports. Go OCR them and then my expense reports. Go OCR them and then my expense reports. Go OCR them and then file it." And you know what? I didn't file it." And you know what? I didn't file it." And you know what? I didn't use an app. I didn't use an expense use an app. I didn't use an expense use an app. I didn't use an expense report app. report app. report app. >> 40 APIs. You called 20 REST API. >> 40 APIs. You called 20 REST API. >> 40 APIs. You called 20 REST API. >> And the chatbot had, and this is where >> And the chatbot had, and this is where >> And the chatbot had, and this is where I'm like, no, [clears throat] that makes I'm like, no, [clears throat] that makes I'm like, no, [clears throat] that makes no sense at all. No. Like, no sense at all. No. Like, no sense at all. No. Like, >> why? >> why? >> why? >> Okay, so here's why. >> Okay, so here's why. >> Okay, so here's why. >> This is the whole Scotty and Star Trek >> This is the whole Scotty and Star Trek >> This is the whole Scotty and Star Trek computer. Yeah. Like, that's what they computer. Yeah. Like, that's what they computer. Yeah. Like, that's what they want us to do. want us to do. want us to do. >> That's fine. So, I'll tell you filing >> That's fine. So, I'll tell you filing >> That's fine. So, I'll tell you filing expenses. expenses. expenses. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um, do you want to waste >> Um, do you want to waste >> Um, do you want to waste so having the everybody that's got to so having the everybody that's got to so having the everybody that's got to file expenses going to their chatbot and file expenses going to their chatbot and file expenses going to their chatbot and saying figure out how to OCR this and saying figure out how to OCR this and saying figure out how to OCR this and figure out my expenses, it's just figure out my expenses, it's just figure out my expenses, it's just stupid. You're going to have an app that stupid. You're going to have an app that stupid. You're going to have an app that is like the the deterministic here's, is like the the deterministic here's, is like the the deterministic here's, you know, upload your expenses.

you know, upload your expenses. you know, upload your expenses. >> I'm going to call OCR on them. I'm not >> I'm going to call OCR on them. I'm not >> I'm going to call OCR on them. I'm not asking AI to figure out how to do this. asking AI to figure out how to do this. asking AI to figure out how to do this. I just know like that's a flow workflow I just know like that's a flow workflow I just know like that's a flow workflow that is very deterministic, very it's that is very deterministic, very it's that is very deterministic, very it's it's gonna it requires execution over it's gonna it requires execution over it's gonna it requires execution over and over again. I need to make sure it's and over again. I need to make sure it's and over again. I need to make sure it's reliable. I need to make sure it's reliable. I need to make sure it's reliable. I need to make sure it's secure. secure. secure. >> So, you're saying that that should be an >> So, you're saying that that should be an >> So, you're saying that that should be an app because that's a problem that we're app because that's a problem that we're app because that's a problem that we're throwing an AI at when we just should throwing an AI at when we just should throwing an AI at when we just should fix the expense reporting. fix the expense reporting. fix the expense reporting. >> That's right. And there's so many cases >> That's right. And there's so many cases >> That's right. And there's so many cases like that where you don't want to leave like that where you don't want to leave like that where you don't want to leave yourself to the whims of an AI that yourself to the whims of an AI that yourself to the whims of an AI that might screw things up. And it's not just might screw things up. And it's not just might screw things up. And it's not just a one, like if this is a one-off case of a one, like if this is a one-off case of a one, like if this is a one-off case of like, you know, nobody else in the world like, you know, nobody else in the world like, you know, nobody else in the world is ever going to want to do this is ever going to want to do this is ever going to want to do this followed by that followed by that, followed by that followed by that, followed by that followed by that, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Sure, have AI do it. But if it's >> Sure, have AI do it. But if it's >> Sure, have AI do it. But if it's something that is repetitive something that is repetitive something that is repetitive and something that requires high and something that requires high and something that requires high security and reliability, you're going security and reliability, you're going security and reliability, you're going to want to codify that in a to want to codify that in a to want to codify that in a deterministic manner. And, you know, deterministic manner. And, you know, deterministic manner. And, you know, maybe there's AI sprinkled in there, maybe there's AI sprinkled in there, maybe there's AI sprinkled in there, something like, you know, AI is going to something like, you know, AI is going to something like, you know, AI is going to OCR it. OCR it. OCR it. >> Yeah. But the rest of the workflow >> Yeah. But the rest of the workflow >> Yeah. But the rest of the workflow should just be deterministic.

should just be deterministic. should just be deterministic. >> Totally agree. This is one of my You got >> Totally agree. This is one of my You got >> Totally agree. This is one of my You got me on a rant here because me on a rant here because me on a rant here because >> No, this is good. I have a rant after >> No, this is good. I have a rant after >> No, this is good. I have a rant after >> because that's also I hear SAS is dead. >> because that's also I hear SAS is dead. >> because that's also I hear SAS is dead. I'm like, no, it's not for the same I'm like, no, it's not for the same I'm like, no, it's not for the same reasons. SAS is not dead. reasons. SAS is not dead. reasons. SAS is not dead. Um, Um, Um, and UX is dead. Chat's the new and UX is dead. Chat's the new and UX is dead. Chat's the new interface. No, that's not true either. interface. No, that's not true either. interface. No, that's not true either. There's so many cases where humans need There's so many cases where humans need There's so many cases where humans need to review something or they need to to review something or they need to to review something or they need to input something input something input something that chat and text is just incredibly that chat and text is just incredibly that chat and text is just incredibly inefficient means of doing it. inefficient means of doing it. inefficient means of doing it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And in those cases, you're going to have >> And in those cases, you're going to have >> And in those cases, you're going to have a UX like a drop down that's yes or no. a UX like a drop down that's yes or no. a UX like a drop down that's yes or no. You're going to say, you know, in the You're going to say, you know, in the You're going to say, you know, in the chat bots's going to say yes or no. Um, chat bots's going to say yes or no. Um, chat bots's going to say yes or no. Um, you know, a form, you're going to have you know, a form, you're going to have you know, a form, you're going to have that chat with a form. that chat with a form. that chat with a form. >> Yeah. So the thing is though that this >> Yeah. So the thing is though that this >> Yeah. So the thing is though that this there's there's push back because the there's there's push back because the there's there's push back because the the terminal folks are using ask the the the terminal folks are using ask the the the terminal folks are using ask the the ask user question tool. Have you seen ask user question tool. Have you seen ask user question tool. Have you seen this? this? this? >> No. >> No. >> No. >> Okay. So the way that people are getting >> Okay. So the way that people are getting >> Okay. So the way that people are getting around this is this tool for Claude around this is this tool for Claude around this is this tool for Claude called ask user question and you called ask user question and you called ask user question and you [snorts] tell it about the tool [snorts] tell it about the tool [snorts] tell it about the tool >> and then it makes drop downs and yes nos >> and then it makes drop downs and yes nos >> and then it makes drop downs and yes nos and interviews and it's basically and interviews and it's basically and interviews and it's basically dynamically generating a SAT multiple dynamically generating a SAT multiple dynamically generating a SAT multiple choice questions and stuff like that.

choice questions and stuff like that. choice questions and stuff like that. >> So rather than interviewing you it's >> So rather than interviewing you it's >> So rather than interviewing you it's like okay what behavior do you want like okay what behavior do you want like okay what behavior do you want retry fail Q and then you get to do retry fail Q and then you get to do retry fail Q and then you get to do that. So their dynamic user interface that. So their dynamic user interface that. So their dynamic user interface creation is going to blur the lines creation is going to blur the lines creation is going to blur the lines where you ask for a thing. You're like, where you ask for a thing. You're like, where you ask for a thing. You're like, I want to go and do this problem. I want I want to go and do this problem. I want I want to go and do this problem. I want to resize these videos. to resize these videos. to resize these videos. >> It could do that and script it. It could >> It could do that and script it. It could >> It could do that and script it. It could generate an entire app and that would be generate an entire app and that would be generate an entire app and that would be an app by your definition. Or somewhere an app by your definition. Or somewhere an app by your definition. Or somewhere in the middle it dynamically creates. in the middle it dynamically creates. in the middle it dynamically creates. >> Let me ask you this. So let's let's just >> Let me ask you this. So let's let's just >> Let me ask you this. So let's let's just test this. Zoom it in and video test this. Zoom it in and video test this. Zoom it in and video clipping. clipping. clipping. >> Mhm. So how often do let's say AI is so >> Mhm. So how often do let's say AI is so >> Mhm. So how often do let's say AI is so good now that it it could do that in one good now that it it could do that in one good now that it it could do that in one prompt prompt prompt >> create that clip. So >> create that clip. So >> create that clip. So >> what's better? >> what's better? >> what's better? >> What I just did which is create you know >> What I just did which is create you know >> What I just did which is create you know have it create it. So now everybody can have it create it. So now everybody can have it create it. So now everybody can use it or use it or use it or >> every time somebody wants to trim >> every time somebody wants to trim >> every time somebody wants to trim something they go hey co-pilot something they go hey co-pilot something they go hey co-pilot >> create I want to trim this video and >> create I want to trim this video and >> create I want to trim this video and then it's like okay one second let me go then it's like okay one second let me go then it's like okay one second let me go create a UX for that for you. create a UX for that for you. create a UX for that for you. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And here you go. >> And here you go. >> And here you go. >> You're totally right. Yeah. You don't >> You're totally right. Yeah. You don't >> You're totally right. Yeah. You don't want to, we don't need just in time UIs want to, we don't need just in time UIs want to, we don't need just in time UIs for stuff that is like like if for stuff that is like like if for stuff that is like like if something's done twice, then make it something's done twice, then make it something's done twice, then make it deterministic. Totally agree. Uh when deterministic. Totally agree. Uh when deterministic. Totally agree. Uh when people are using LLM as a poor man's uh people are using LLM as a poor man's uh people are using LLM as a poor man's uh and that's a a phrase that people use.

and that's a a phrase that people use. and that's a a phrase that people use. So as a as a a simplistic scripting So as a as a a simplistic scripting So as a as a a simplistic scripting language, you're wasting power. You're language, you're wasting power. You're language, you're wasting power. You're wasting the power of this thing. wasting the power of this thing. wasting the power of this thing. Make the non-determinist Make the non-determinist Make the non-determinist script. script. script. >> Yeah. It's also like we scripting >> Yeah. It's also like we scripting >> Yeah. It's also like we scripting language. It's not a scripting and and language. It's not a scripting and and language. It's not a scripting and and AI should be used for cases where you AI should be used for cases where you AI should be used for cases where you need reasoning need reasoning need reasoning >> ambiguity. It's for great places where a >> ambiguity. It's for great places where a >> ambiguity. It's for great places where a little bit of ambiguity happens. The little bit of ambiguity happens. The little bit of ambiguity happens. The expense reporting thing pisses me off. expense reporting thing pisses me off. expense reporting thing pisses me off. I've seen people try, oh yeah, look, I've seen people try, oh yeah, look, I've seen people try, oh yeah, look, Claude can automate my browser because Claude can automate my browser because Claude can automate my browser because but what you're saying is your UI for but what you're saying is your UI for but what you're saying is your UI for your expense reporting system sucks so your expense reporting system sucks so your expense reporting system sucks so bad. bad. bad. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That you need the power of the world >> That you need the power of the world >> That you need the power of the world burning computer to fix their UI. burning computer to fix their UI. burning computer to fix their UI. >> Fix that UI. How many and and uh 50, you >> Fix that UI. How many and and uh 50, you >> Fix that UI. How many and and uh 50, you know, hundreds of thousands of people know, hundreds of thousands of people know, hundreds of thousands of people using the expense report, horrible UXI using the expense report, horrible UXI using the expense report, horrible UXI at it versus the expense report company at it versus the expense report company at it versus the expense report company throwing AI at putting an API on it. throwing AI at putting an API on it. throwing AI at putting an API on it. >> And they love to go and do the whole >> And they love to go and do the whole >> And they love to go and do the whole like look at me OCRing my receipts like look at me OCRing my receipts like look at me OCRing my receipts rather than the business process problem rather than the business process problem rather than the business process problem which is why are receipts in that form which is why are receipts in that form which is why are receipts in that form format? Can I get the receipts from format? Can I get the receipts from format? Can I get the receipts from American Express? Why am I physically American Express? Why am I physically American Express? Why am I physically taking pictures of receipts? Why are the taking pictures of receipts? Why are the taking pictures of receipts? Why are the receipts entering my brain and then receipts entering my brain and then receipts entering my brain and then exiting my brain, entering my phone, exiting my brain, entering my phone, exiting my brain, entering my phone, going to iCloud, coming back down?

going to iCloud, coming back down? going to iCloud, coming back down? >> Why do I have expense reports at all? >> Why do I have expense reports at all? >> Why do I have expense reports at all? It's kind of like filing taxes in the It's kind of like filing taxes in the It's kind of like filing taxes in the United States. United States. United States. >> That's stupid. >> That's stupid. >> That's stupid. >> The government should just file the >> The government should just file the >> The government should just file the taxes for me. The company should just do taxes for me. The company should just do taxes for me. The company should just do the expenses for me. So, it's it's very the expenses for me. So, it's it's very the expenses for me. So, it's it's very much high on your own supply much high on your own supply much high on your own supply >> to think that that's the way to >> to think that that's the way to >> to think that that's the way to >> it's like saying, uh, the root cause is >> it's like saying, uh, the root cause is >> it's like saying, uh, the root cause is I can't touch that. I can't touch that. I can't touch that. >> Yeah, that's just too hard to fix. So, >> Yeah, that's just too hard to fix. So, >> Yeah, that's just too hard to fix. So, what I'll do is throw a whole bunch of what I'll do is throw a whole bunch of what I'll do is throw a whole bunch of crap in, you know, bailing wire and crap in, you know, bailing wire and crap in, you know, bailing wire and >> Yeah. And another another great example >> Yeah. And another another great example >> Yeah. And another another great example is um using an AI to book travel. is um using an AI to book travel. is um using an AI to book travel. >> Yeah, that's >> Yeah, that's >> Yeah, that's >> that's dumb. It is. >> that's dumb. It is. >> that's dumb. It is. >> That's dumb. >> That's dumb. >> That's dumb. >> You're going to end up going to the >> You're going to end up going to the >> You're going to end up going to the wrong place and the wrong dates wrong place and the wrong dates wrong place and the wrong dates probably. probably. probably. >> Yeah. Well, where is my travel API? >> Yeah. Well, where is my travel API? >> Yeah. Well, where is my travel API? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> This is the thing. Uh >> This is the thing. Uh >> This is the thing. Uh >> we're we're we we had decom, we had >> we're we're we we had decom, we had >> we're we're we we had decom, we had Corbbo, we had RMI, we had REST, we had Corbbo, we had RMI, we had REST, we had Corbbo, we had RMI, we had REST, we had SOAP, we have we have we have MCP. It's SOAP, we have we have we have MCP. It's SOAP, we have we have we have MCP. It's just like we're inventing remote method just like we're inventing remote method just like we're inventing remote method invocation over and over again and then invocation over and over again and then invocation over and over again and then putting an ambiguity loop around it and putting an ambiguity loop around it and putting an ambiguity loop around it and then we're surprised when things don't then we're surprised when things don't then we're surprised when things don't work out and we agree on that. Well, so work out and we agree on that. Well, so work out and we agree on that. Well, so going back is SAS dead? No. And I'll going back is SAS dead? No. And I'll going back is SAS dead? No. And I'll tell you another thing like if you take tell you another thing like if you take tell you another thing like if you take a look at Dynamics which is where people a look at Dynamics which is where people a look at Dynamics which is where people you would file expense reports you would file expense reports you would file expense reports um um um that that's a service. It's a cloud that that's a service. It's a cloud that that's a service. It's a cloud service. It has service. It has service. It has >> hundreds of features, hundreds of >> hundreds of features, hundreds of >> hundreds of features, hundreds of workflows built into it and it's workflows built into it and it's workflows built into it and it's dynamically, you know, extensible as dynamically, you know, extensible as dynamically, you know, extensible as well, but it's running in cloud servers well, but it's running in cloud servers well, but it's running in cloud servers all over the world. So, because it's got all over the world. So, because it's got all over the world. So, because it's got to honor regionality, you know, data to honor regionality, you know, data to honor regionality, you know, data sovereignty and latency

sovereignty and latency sovereignty and latency >> and it's got security controls all over >> and it's got security controls all over >> and it's got security controls all over it because this is sensitive data. it because this is sensitive data. it because this is sensitive data. >> And you know, the people are like, oh, >> And you know, the people are like, oh, >> And you know, the people are like, oh, you know what, SAS like that is dead. you know what, SAS like that is dead. you know what, SAS like that is dead. people, you know, a startup is just people, you know, a startup is just people, you know, a startup is just going to be able to go create a Dynamics going to be able to go create a Dynamics going to be able to go create a Dynamics killer based on AI. Like, what are you killer based on AI. Like, what are you killer based on AI. Like, what are you that doesn't make any that doesn't make any that doesn't make any >> I love it when people are gonna vibe >> I love it when people are gonna vibe >> I love it when people are gonna vibe code SAP. Like, I I'm looking forward to code SAP. Like, I I'm looking forward to code SAP. Like, I I'm looking forward to that moment. that moment. that moment. >> And [clears throat] I'm like, what about >> And [clears throat] I'm like, what about >> And [clears throat] I'm like, what about all what about scale? What about all what about scale? What about all what about scale? What about regional deployments? What about regional deployments? What about regional deployments? What about security? What about compliance? What security? What about compliance? What security? What about compliance? What about all the features that it has about all the features that it has about all the features that it has um that are built on real world um that are built on real world um that are built on real world workflows and experience with c real workflows and experience with c real workflows and experience with c real customers over at this point decades? customers over at this point decades? customers over at this point decades? You're just going to go vibe code that You're just going to go vibe code that You're just going to go vibe code that in a in a few months or even a year or in a in a few months or even a year or in a in a few months or even a year or two years? Like it just doesn't make any two years? Like it just doesn't make any two years? Like it just doesn't make any sense to me uh that people extrapolate sense to me uh that people extrapolate sense to me uh that people extrapolate this. And not just that, but we talk this. And not just that, but we talk this. And not just that, but we talk about when do you want to use AI? Again, about when do you want to use AI? Again, about when do you want to use AI? Again, a whole lot of what these SAS a whole lot of what these SAS a whole lot of what these SAS applications do is very deterministic.

applications do is very deterministic. applications do is very deterministic. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Um, you're not going to go Yeah. Anyway, >> Um, you're not going to go Yeah. Anyway, >> Um, you're not going to go Yeah. Anyway, >> let me ask you this. That's cool. This >> let me ask you this. That's cool. This >> let me ask you this. That's cool. This is a whole other show that we're is a whole other show that we're is a whole other show that we're recording right now. Um, when people recording right now. Um, when people recording right now. Um, when people talk about like, oh, knowledge talk about like, oh, knowledge talk about like, oh, knowledge extraction, like that's not it's very extraction, like that's not it's very extraction, like that's not it's very antihuman. Like people know stuff. What antihuman. Like people know stuff. What antihuman. Like people know stuff. What is the I don't want to extract knowledge is the I don't want to extract knowledge is the I don't want to extract knowledge from humans. I want to unlock it. I want from humans. I want to unlock it. I want from humans. I want to unlock it. I want people to be enabled by these things, people to be enabled by these things, people to be enabled by these things, not replaced by these things. Um, if if not replaced by these things. Um, if if not replaced by these things. Um, if if if you were going to take something that if you were going to take something that if you were going to take something that an expert knew and then people seem to an expert knew and then people seem to an expert knew and then people seem to think that they can uh turn that into a think that they can uh turn that into a think that they can uh turn that into a markdown file and then have like MD and markdown file and then have like MD and markdown file and then have like MD and it's like, okay, I I know everything. it's like, okay, I I know everything. it's like, okay, I I know everything. Mark knows it's in Markdown now. Mark knows it's in Markdown now. Mark knows it's in Markdown now. Everything's cool. Everything's cool. Everything's cool. >> Let's [laughter] go. >> Let's [laughter] go. >> Let's [laughter] go. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So then where where I would where what >> So then where where I would where what >> So then where where I would where what is the role of expertise in this is the role of expertise in this is the role of expertise in this context? Well, how are you using this to context? Well, how are you using this to context? Well, how are you using this to be get smarter? be get smarter? be get smarter? >> How could I put my expertise in a >> How could I put my expertise in a >> How could I put my expertise in a markdown file? markdown file? markdown file? >> I don't. >> I don't. >> I don't. >> That'd be a very big markdown file. >> That'd be a very big markdown file. >> That'd be a very big markdown file. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> It'd be monstrous.

>> It'd be monstrous. >> It'd be monstrous. >> Yeah. Yeah. Your ego could fit in there >> Yeah. Yeah. Your ego could fit in there >> Yeah. Yeah. Your ego could fit in there as well, but you need, [laughter] >> you know, I think it was Quinton >> you know, I think it was Quinton Tarantino who said, "He who is most Tarantino who said, "He who is most Tarantino who said, "He who is most likely to make declarative statements is likely to make declarative statements is likely to make declarative statements is most likely to be called a fool in most likely to be called a fool in most likely to be called a fool in retrospect." retrospect." retrospect." >> Oh, that's >> Oh, that's >> Oh, that's Let's go and see 3, five, 10 years Let's go and see 3, five, 10 years Let's go and see 3, five, 10 years later. Return to this episode of Mark later. Return to this episode of Mark later. Return to this episode of Mark and Scott and see if Mark is wrong or and Scott and see if Mark is wrong or and Scott and see if Mark is wrong or not. Did apps get replaced? It's 2030. not. Did apps get replaced? It's 2030. not. Did apps get replaced? It's 2030. Where are we? Are we at the uh the Where are we? Are we at the uh the Where are we? Are we at the uh the Hillside Mall with Marty and Doc? Hillside Mall with Marty and Doc? Hillside Mall with Marty and Doc? >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Like and subscribe. Make sure that you >> Like and subscribe. Make sure that you >> Like and subscribe. Make sure that you leave a comment. Um I cannot say enough leave a comment. Um I cannot say enough leave a comment. Um I cannot say enough that we would rather have a excited that we would rather have a excited that we would rather have a excited group of people who watch the show and group of people who watch the show and group of people who watch the show and comment and let us reply to you than a comment and let us reply to you than a comment and let us reply to you than a whole bunch of views. It's much more fun whole bunch of views. It's much more fun whole bunch of views. It's much more fun to be engaged. So, if you are a viewer, to be engaged. So, if you are a viewer, to be engaged. So, if you are a viewer, uh, I'd love to hear people who are, you uh, I'd love to hear people who are, you uh, I'd love to hear people who are, you know, firsttime callers, longtime know, firsttime callers, longtime know, firsttime callers, longtime listeners, uh, that have something to listeners, uh, that have something to listeners, uh, that have something to say, make sure to offer suggestions on say, make sure to offer suggestions on say, make sure to offer suggestions on future episodes of Mark [music] and future episodes of Mark [music] and future episodes of Mark [music] and Scott because we are reading the Scott because we are reading the Scott because we are reading the comments and we will put episodes comments and we will put episodes comments and we will put episodes together if we think that we can, uh, together if we think that we can, uh, together if we think that we can, uh, answer your questions, answer your questions, answer your questions, >> share with somebody else so we got some >> share with somebody else so we got some >> share with somebody else so we got some more viewers. Yeah, we would appreciate more viewers. Yeah, we would appreciate more viewers. Yeah, we would appreciate that. All right, bye everybody.