Scott & Mark Learn To...Process Explorer for Mac

Is this recording? Is this recording? >> Are we on? >> Are we on? >> Are we on? >> No, it says >> No, it says >> No, it says it is recording. it is recording. it is recording. You look pretty excited, Mark. You're You look pretty excited, Mark. You're You look pretty excited, Mark. You're blown away still? >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> That's the opener producer, Rob. >> That's the opener producer, Rob. >> That's the opener producer, Rob. >> [music] >> If you were here in the last episode, >> If you were here in the last episode, you'll know that Mark has taken ZoomIt you'll know that Mark has taken ZoomIt you'll know that Mark has taken ZoomIt and made ZoomIt for Mac. And he did that and made ZoomIt for Mac. And he did that and made ZoomIt for Mac. And he did that through a combination of looking at the through a combination of looking at the through a combination of looking at the source, prompting, and uh good source, prompting, and uh good source, prompting, and uh good old-fashioned expertise. And uh Mark, we old-fashioned expertise. And uh Mark, we old-fashioned expertise. And uh Mark, we had suggested had suggested had suggested I had suggested you just do it all. Just I had suggested you just do it all. Just I had suggested you just do it all. Just for loop over the entire Sysinternals for loop over the entire Sysinternals for loop over the entire Sysinternals family of tools. family of tools. family of tools. But I think it's so interesting that you But I think it's so interesting that you But I think it's so interesting that you spent 25 now, how many years now? Is it spent 25 now, how many years now? Is it spent 25 now, how many years now? Is it 30 years? 30 years? 30 years? >> 30th It will be 30th anniversary in >> 30th It will be 30th anniversary in >> 30th It will be 30th anniversary in September. September. September. >> Yeah, there's a there's an event, a >> Yeah, there's a there's an event, a >> Yeah, there's a there's an event, a September Sysinternals Fest. A festival.

September Sysinternals Fest. A festival. September Sysinternals Fest. A festival. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> 30 years of writing these utilities >> 30 years of writing these utilities >> 30 years of writing these utilities bespoke from scratch. bespoke from scratch. bespoke from scratch. Is it stupid to suggest that you could Is it stupid to suggest that you could Is it stupid to suggest that you could for loop over them and write them for for loop over them and write them for for loop over them and write them for Mac? Mac? Mac? >> No, although >> No, although >> No, although I mean, when when you say for loop, to I mean, when when you say for loop, to I mean, when when you say for loop, to me I I interpret that me I I interpret that me I I interpret that >> and tools and tools and >> and tools and tools and >> and tools and tools and >> I interpret like here >> I interpret like here >> I interpret like here Copilot, go and Copilot, go and Copilot, go and >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> make Mac versions of all these. >> make Mac versions of all these. >> make Mac versions of all these. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And as we discussed >> And as we discussed >> And as we discussed the last episode, when I did ZoomIt, the last episode, when I did ZoomIt, the last episode, when I did ZoomIt, I had to do a lot of coaching and I had to do a lot of coaching and I had to do a lot of coaching and guiding and tweaking guiding and tweaking guiding and tweaking to get it to be the way to to get it to to get it to be the way to to get it to to get it to be the way to to get it to be a high-fidelity, working, reliable be a high-fidelity, working, reliable be a high-fidelity, working, reliable clone. clone. clone. And so, I think if you say for loop is And so, I think if you say for loop is And so, I think if you say for loop is go to each tool go to each tool go to each tool and do it, and do it, and do it, then then then uh with that kind of uh sculpting, then uh with that kind of uh sculpting, then uh with that kind of uh sculpting, then yes, I think you're right. yes, I think you're right. yes, I think you're right. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. Not blindly. You don't think you could Not blindly. You don't think you could Not blindly. You don't think you could just autopilot this. just autopilot this. just autopilot this. >> you'd end up with a pile of garbage. >> you'd end up with a pile of garbage. >> you'd end up with a pile of garbage. >> Pile of garbage.

>> Pile of garbage. >> Pile of garbage. Okay. Okay. Okay. Because there you know, there's the we Because there you know, there's the we Because there you know, there's the we should have to do another show about should have to do another show about should have to do another show about this idea of loop engineering where this idea of loop engineering where this idea of loop engineering where people are saying you move beyond people are saying you move beyond people are saying you move beyond prompts and now prompt loops. prompts and now prompt loops. prompts and now prompt loops. And I'm starting to do little stuff like And I'm starting to do little stuff like And I'm starting to do little stuff like that where it's like that where it's like that where it's like but it feels like a million monkeys in a but it feels like a million monkeys in a but it feels like a million monkeys in a million typewriters, you know? million typewriters, you know? million typewriters, you know? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Uh >> Uh >> Uh give it a gate and say go until you hit give it a gate and say go until you hit give it a gate and say go until you hit the gate. the gate. the gate. >> Yeah, well, actually >> Yeah, well, actually >> Yeah, well, actually I did um I tried a different approach on I did um I tried a different approach on I did um I tried a different approach on this one than I did on ZoomIt. this one than I did on ZoomIt. this one than I did on ZoomIt. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, on ZoomIt, I started by I just added >> So, on ZoomIt, I started by I just added >> So, on ZoomIt, I started by I just added features incrementally. So, I just features incrementally. So, I just features incrementally. So, I just started with let's get drawing working. started with let's get drawing working. started with let's get drawing working. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And then I would get other drawing >> And then I would get other drawing >> And then I would get other drawing features and typing and then I kept on features and typing and then I kept on features and typing and then I kept on adding with more prompting more adding with more prompting more adding with more prompting more features. features. features. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> With Process Explorer, what I told it >> With Process Explorer, what I told it >> With Process Explorer, what I told it was go look at the Windows code. was go look at the Windows code. was go look at the Windows code. Go read the documentation online. Go read the documentation online. Go read the documentation online. And And And then then then create a I had it create a spec and then create a I had it create a spec and then create a I had it create a spec and then I said go and divide it among sub-agents I said go and divide it among sub-agents I said go and divide it among sub-agents to do the work in parallel to do the work in parallel to do the work in parallel to get Process Explorer ported. So, I to get Process Explorer ported. So, I to get Process Explorer ported. So, I did go after in one shot, I went after a did go after in one shot, I went after a did go after in one shot, I went after a port, a 100% port.

port, a 100% port. port, a 100% port. Now, what I got after Now, what I got after Now, what I got after half an hour was something that worked half an hour was something that worked half an hour was something that worked kind of. kind of. kind of. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> So, it had some of the basics, but the >> So, it had some of the basics, but the >> So, it had some of the basics, but the UX was ugly. The process list wasn't UX was ugly. The process list wasn't UX was ugly. The process list wasn't really a process tree or tree list like really a process tree or tree list like really a process tree or tree list like it is in Process Explorer. it is in Process Explorer. it is in Process Explorer. Uh was showing only a fraction of the Uh was showing only a fraction of the Uh was showing only a fraction of the interesting information. interesting information. interesting information. Um Um Um the layouts of everything was off. the layouts of everything was off. the layouts of everything was off. But But But the skeleton was there. the skeleton was there. the skeleton was there. And then And then And then this is another one of those things this is another one of those things this is another one of those things where like ZoomIt, I expected ZoomIt was where like ZoomIt, I expected ZoomIt was where like ZoomIt, I expected ZoomIt was going to be a a summer project of a few going to be a a summer project of a few going to be a a summer project of a few weeks, few week, you know, night weeks, few week, you know, night weeks, few week, you know, night evenings, weekends of prompting cuz I'd evenings, weekends of prompting cuz I'd evenings, weekends of prompting cuz I'd run into challenges where it didn't know run into challenges where it didn't know run into challenges where it didn't know the the API or the the API or the the API or how to do things and it took two days. how to do things and it took two days. how to do things and it took two days. This one I'm like This one I'm like This one I'm like this could have been really easy or too this could have been really easy or too this could have been really easy or too impossible. impossible. impossible. The I don't just have no idea how I The I don't just have no idea how I The I don't just have no idea how I actually do this. actually do this. actually do this. >> we had had a conversation about what is >> we had had a conversation about what is >> we had had a conversation about what is the next one. You did Zoomit and Zoomit the next one. You did Zoomit and Zoomit the next one. You did Zoomit and Zoomit is complicated but also we don't we're is complicated but also we don't we're is complicated but also we don't we're not saying that it's trivial but of all not saying that it's trivial but of all not saying that it's trivial but of all the utilities it's probably the one that the utilities it's probably the one that the utilities it's probably the one that does the least kind of heavy lifting.

does the least kind of heavy lifting. does the least kind of heavy lifting. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's got some nuance to it but I thought >> It's got some nuance to it but I thought >> It's got some nuance to it but I thought ProcMon or Process Explorer. And the ProcMon or Process Explorer. And the ProcMon or Process Explorer. And the reason that I thought Process Explorer reason that I thought Process Explorer reason that I thought Process Explorer was the move for Mac is I've always was the move for Mac is I've always was the move for Mac is I've always disliked Activity Log or Activity disliked Activity Log or Activity disliked Activity Log or Activity Viewer. Maybe you could bring that up Viewer. Maybe you could bring that up Viewer. Maybe you could bring that up and show us what the Activity Monitor and show us what the Activity Monitor and show us what the Activity Monitor looks like. looks like. looks like. Uh you have to hit command shift uh Uh you have to hit command shift uh Uh you have to hit command shift uh command space. It's called Activity Monitor. It's called Activity Monitor. >> Oh, there it is. >> Oh, there it is. >> Oh, there it is. >> That is your competition. >> That is your competition. >> That is your competition. And this is the one that this is their And this is the one that this is their And this is the one that this is their task man. task man. task man. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Now you can see it's very pretty. >> Now you can see it's very pretty. >> Now you can see it's very pretty. >> Where is the process list? >> Where is the process list? >> Where is the process list? >> Uh there it is. >> Uh there it is. >> Uh there it is. >> it is. >> it is. >> it is. >> Bit of a bit of a >> Bit of a bit of a >> Bit of a bit of a bit of a moment there. bit of a moment there. bit of a moment there. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, I just dislike this. It is hard to >> So, I just dislike this. It is hard to >> So, I just dislike this. It is hard to understand. It's hard to under like if understand. It's hard to under like if understand. It's hard to under like if you sort by CPU I'm going to get it again. I'm going to get it again. And then go to the top. Yeah, there you And then go to the top. Yeah, there you And then go to the top. Yeah, there you go. So, what is using the go. So, what is using the go. So, what is using the What is it? Probably Edge because you're What is it? Probably Edge because you're What is it? Probably Edge because you're sharing your screen. sharing your screen. sharing your screen. >> there's a great tooltip here. Oh, there >> there's a great tooltip here. Oh, there >> there's a great tooltip here. Oh, there it is. Shut up. Microsoft Edge, yeah.

it is. Shut up. Microsoft Edge, yeah. it is. Shut up. Microsoft Edge, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, like how many processes are going? >> So, like how many processes are going? >> So, like how many processes are going? 822 it says. Okay, you have 822 822 it says. Okay, you have 822 822 it says. Okay, you have 822 processes processes processes >> running in the background. >> running in the background. >> running in the background. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. Like it's it's attractive but I don't Like it's it's attractive but I don't Like it's it's attractive but I don't know. I just never worked for me. The know. I just never worked for me. The know. I just never worked for me. The other thing is I don't like the way it other thing is I don't like the way it other thing is I don't like the way it doesn't show a tree. I haven't figured doesn't show a tree. I haven't figured doesn't show a tree. I haven't figured out how to show it. Maybe there's an out how to show it. Maybe there's an out how to show it. Maybe there's an activity tree. activity tree. activity tree. >> Oh, I think you can. >> Oh, I think you can. >> Oh, I think you can. >> Under Can you go to CPU? Is there a tree >> Under Can you go to CPU? Is there a tree >> Under Can you go to CPU? Is there a tree view? view? view? Cuz really like to know the parents Cuz really like to know the parents Cuz really like to know the parents and children relationship of of and children relationship of of and children relationship of of processing. Okay, so we thought process processing. Okay, so we thought process processing. Okay, so we thought process explorer explorer explorer it's known for its tree view as well as it's known for its tree view as well as it's known for its tree view as well as the coloring of the of the of the the coloring of the of the of the the coloring of the of the of the processing. So you you've never even processing. So you you've never even processing. So you you've never even seen this before, have you? You're like seen this before, have you? You're like seen this before, have you? You're like exploring it now to see if your stuff exploring it now to see if your stuff exploring it now to see if your stuff >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> is competitive. >> is competitive. >> is competitive. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I love that. I love that this is the >> I love that. I love that this is the >> I love that. I love that this is the first time you've opened Activity cuz first time you've opened Activity cuz first time you've opened Activity cuz you just got this Mac like last week. you just got this Mac like last week. you just got this Mac like last week. >> Uh I >> Uh I >> Uh I two weeks ago. two weeks ago. two weeks ago. >> Yeah, it's like visiting a strange >> Yeah, it's like visiting a strange >> Yeah, it's like visiting a strange country, right? And they like they all country, right? And they like they all country, right? And they like they all kind of talk like we talk, but it's kind of talk like we talk, but it's kind of talk like we talk, but it's different. different. different. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay, so give me the tour of of Mac >> Okay, so give me the tour of of Mac >> Okay, so give me the tour of of Mac internals process explorer.

internals process explorer. internals process explorer. >> so a few things. One, the one of the >> so a few things. One, the one of the >> so a few things. One, the one of the things that I spent the most time on things that I spent the most time on things that I spent the most time on this over that two days this weekend this over that two days this weekend this over that two days this weekend was on this tree list. So getting it to was on this tree list. So getting it to was on this tree list. So getting it to actually support actually support actually support uh the same uh the same uh the same style as process support for Windows. style as process support for Windows. style as process support for Windows. There's actually two controls here. The There's actually two controls here. The There's actually two controls here. The this right side is just a list and the this right side is just a list and the this right side is just a list and the left side is a tree or a list. left side is a tree or a list. left side is a tree or a list. And they have to be state they have to And they have to be state they have to And they have to be state they have to be in sync. So when you scroll one, they be in sync. So when you scroll one, they be in sync. So when you scroll one, they both have to scroll. When you select, it both have to scroll. When you select, it both have to scroll. When you select, it has to select across both. It's got to has to select across both. It's got to has to select across both. It's got to sort the same way. sort the same way. sort the same way. And that one And that one And that one it was just like it was just like it was just like came up with crap. And this is funny cuz came up with crap. And this is funny cuz came up with crap. And this is funny cuz I'm like there needs to be two sides to I'm like there needs to be two sides to I'm like there needs to be two sides to this. This needs to be fixed on the left this. This needs to be fixed on the left this. This needs to be fixed on the left side. It's always visible. side. It's always visible. side. It's always visible. And you need to be able to scroll the And you need to be able to scroll the And you need to be able to scroll the other columns. other columns. other columns. And so And so And so it just sort of had no idea what I was it just sort of had no idea what I was it just sort of had no idea what I was talking about. I had I I don't think it talking about. I had I I don't think it talking about. I had I I don't think it could figure out much from looking at could figure out much from looking at could figure out much from looking at the Windows source code, either, to the Windows source code, either, to the Windows source code, either, to process explorer. So I had to guide it process explorer. So I had to guide it process explorer. So I had to guide it through here and be like, "Nope, that's through here and be like, "Nope, that's through here and be like, "Nope, that's broken. Nope, this is in back and forth broken. Nope, this is in back and forth broken. Nope, this is in back and forth with it." At one point it's like it it with it." At one point it's like it it with it." At one point it's like it it effectively said this is too hard effectively said this is too hard effectively said this is too hard and it undid the two panes that it had and it undid the two panes that it had and it undid the two panes that it had developed and went back to just one, developed and went back to just one, developed and went back to just one, which didn't behave like a tree list at which didn't behave like a tree list at which didn't behave like a tree list at all and had no fixed left column.

all and had no fixed left column. all and had no fixed left column. And I was like, And I was like, And I was like, "No, I didn't I didn't say that was okay "No, I didn't I didn't say that was okay "No, I didn't I didn't say that was okay for you to do. Undo that right now." for you to do. Undo that right now." for you to do. Undo that right now." And revert. And but that's an example of And revert. And but that's an example of And revert. And but that's an example of it just decided on its own, "I don't it just decided on its own, "I don't it just decided on its own, "I don't really want to do this. It's too hard." really want to do this. It's too hard." really want to do this. It's too hard." And so, um I I like you need to owner And so, um I I like you need to owner And so, um I I like you need to owner draw this. You need to keep it in sync. draw this. You need to keep it in sync. draw this. You need to keep it in sync. You need to manage screen updates so You need to manage screen updates so You need to manage screen updates so that the the scrolling asynchronous that the the scrolling asynchronous that the the scrolling asynchronous scrolling on the two sides is not scrolling on the two sides is not scrolling on the two sides is not visible so it update visible so it update visible so it update in unison. in unison. in unison. And so, I had to prompt it like that to And so, I had to prompt it like that to And so, I had to prompt it like that to get it to this point. get it to this point. get it to this point. >> Okay, so owner draw, I don't know if >> Okay, so owner draw, I don't know if >> Okay, so owner draw, I don't know if that's a computer science thing. I've that's a computer science thing. I've that's a computer science thing. I've always thought about it as being a always thought about it as being a always thought about it as being a Windows thing cuz back in Windows 3.1, Windows thing cuz back in Windows 3.1, Windows thing cuz back in Windows 3.1, they would give you these controls and they would give you these controls and they would give you these controls and anything else you had to draw yourself. anything else you had to draw yourself. anything else you had to draw yourself. So, it was called owner draw in the So, it was called owner draw in the So, it was called owner draw in the client area. client area. client area. Uh Mac is extremely well known for Uh Mac is extremely well known for Uh Mac is extremely well known for having a robust series of controls and having a robust series of controls and having a robust series of controls and there's really no reason to use other there's really no reason to use other there's really no reason to use other other controls. Are we looking at a other controls. Are we looking at a other controls. Are we looking at a control or is this a painted on a canvas control or is this a painted on a canvas control or is this a painted on a canvas fake control?

fake control? fake control? >> This is um >> This is um >> This is um customized control, I think. customized control, I think. customized control, I think. What's happening here? What's happening here? What's happening here? >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> You can see there's the tree. By the >> You can see there's the tree. By the >> You can see there's the tree. By the way, this is a custom tooltip I had it way, this is a custom tooltip I had it way, this is a custom tooltip I had it do to match the Windows tooltip and do to match the Windows tooltip and do to match the Windows tooltip and because I didn't like the, you know, because I didn't like the, you know, because I didn't like the, you know, just like I in Windows, I take over the just like I in Windows, I take over the just like I in Windows, I take over the tooltip. tooltip. tooltip. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> I wanted this to show >> I wanted this to show >> I wanted this to show this information instantly as you scroll this information instantly as you scroll this information instantly as you scroll over. over. over. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And if the column is too wide, I also >> And if the column is too wide, I also >> And if the column is too wide, I also wanted it to instantly show wanted it to instantly show wanted it to instantly show the tooltip. the tooltip. the tooltip. >> And what does the red mean? This is a >> And what does the red mean? This is a >> And what does the red mean? This is a flood of red on the screen. flood of red on the screen. flood of red on the screen. >> So, it's the same as in Windows. This >> So, it's the same as in Windows. This >> So, it's the same as in Windows. This means it's a system daemon. means it's a system daemon. means it's a system daemon. >> Okay, so close the launch close the >> Okay, so close the launch close the >> Okay, so close the launch close the chevron for launchd. And everything is off of launchd cuz it And everything is off of launchd cuz it is the bootstrapper for Darwin. is the bootstrapper for Darwin. is the bootstrapper for Darwin. >> But it means it's um run with an auto >> But it means it's um run with an auto >> But it means it's um run with an auto start? Uh launchd auto start? start? Uh launchd auto start? start? Uh launchd auto start? >> Mhm. Right. Everything comes off of it. >> Mhm. Right. Everything comes off of it. >> Mhm. Right. Everything comes off of it. So, the reason I point that out is it So, the reason I point that out is it So, the reason I point that out is it launchd on Mac is an interesting and launchd on Mac is an interesting and launchd on Mac is an interesting and this is where you've made something that this is where you've made something that this is where you've made something that is a straight port. is a straight port. is a straight port. The question would be would I as a Mac The question would be would I as a Mac The question would be would I as a Mac user want launchd, which always starts user want launchd, which always starts user want launchd, which always starts as a PID of one, as a PID of one, as a PID of one, to be removed from the tree?

to be removed from the tree? to be removed from the tree? >> No. The whole goal with Sysinternals >> No. The whole goal with Sysinternals >> No. The whole goal with Sysinternals tools is so that it shows you the raw tools is so that it shows you the raw tools is so that it shows you the raw what's there. what's there. what's there. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Now, the blue is processes running as >> Now, the blue is processes running as >> Now, the blue is processes running as me, just like on the Windows version. me, just like on the Windows version. me, just like on the Windows version. >> Right, right, right. >> Right, right, right. >> Right, right, right. >> Um I had it implement You can see the >> Um I had it implement You can see the >> Um I had it implement You can see the toolbar here. This is custom, too. toolbar here. This is custom, too. toolbar here. This is custom, too. And you can resize these graphs, or And you can resize these graphs, or And you can resize these graphs, or which are custom, which are custom, which are custom, as well. as well. as well. This is all custom. This is all custom. This is all custom. >> Yeah, but see, the part that I think is >> Yeah, but see, the part that I think is >> Yeah, but see, the part that I think is interesting, if you compare this interesting, if you compare this interesting, if you compare this to how Windows works, on Windows you've to how Windows works, on Windows you've to how Windows works, on Windows you've got like system and wininit and got like system and wininit and got like system and wininit and winlogin, but winlogin starts like DWM, winlogin, but winlogin starts like DWM, winlogin, but winlogin starts like DWM, the the the the the the the the the the window uh compositor, but it doesn't the window uh compositor, but it doesn't the window uh compositor, but it doesn't start explorer.exe. start explorer.exe. start explorer.exe. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's like it's interesting to learn >> It's like it's interesting to learn >> It's like it's interesting to learn about how they think about process trees about how they think about process trees about how they think about process trees and that everything starts off of and that everything starts off of and that everything starts off of launchd. launchd. launchd. >> So, the lower pane. >> So, the lower pane. >> So, the lower pane. >> Yeah. Like it. >> Yeah. Like it. >> Yeah. Like it. >> And I had to >> And I had to >> And I had to get it to add things to the basics that get it to add things to the basics that get it to add things to the basics that it had started out with and correct some it had started out with and correct some it had started out with and correct some things and things and things and have it so um the scroll bars in Mac have it so um the scroll bars in Mac have it so um the scroll bars in Mac don't work the way I want them to, don't work the way I want them to, don't work the way I want them to, either.

either. either. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Because I don't want it to show a scroll >> Because I don't want it to show a scroll >> Because I don't want it to show a scroll bar if you don't need it. bar if you don't need it. bar if you don't need it. And it basically either see there like And it basically either see there like And it basically either see there like you've got a scroll bar or you don't you've got a scroll bar or you don't you've got a scroll bar or you don't have a scroll bar. have a scroll bar. have a scroll bar. And I'm like, I don't want the scroll And I'm like, I don't want the scroll And I'm like, I don't want the scroll bar. Now, if it shrinks enough that you bar. Now, if it shrinks enough that you bar. Now, if it shrinks enough that you need it, I want it to show up. need it, I want it to show up. need it, I want it to show up. >> So, I had >> So, I had >> So, I had >> Oh, really? >> Oh, really? >> Oh, really? >> So, I had to make it do that. But you can see lots of information But you can see lots of information about about about >> Do you Do you want real-time bug >> Do you Do you want real-time bug >> Do you Do you want real-time bug reports? reports? reports? >> No. >> No. >> No. >> Okay, I won't send you a bug report. >> Okay, I won't send you a bug report. >> Okay, I won't send you a bug report. >> Don't embarrass me. >> Don't embarrass me. >> Don't embarrass me. >> All right. >> All right. >> All right. >> Uh thread list. Uh by the way, on the process view Uh by the way, on the process view So this is with all the columns So this is with all the columns So this is with all the columns selected. So you can see that we've got selected. So you can see that we've got selected. So you can see that we've got the same options here and view the same options here and view the same options here and view select columns. select columns. select columns. So just like in the Windows version So just like in the Windows version So just like in the Windows version >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> told it to do this. I've selected >> told it to do this. I've selected >> told it to do this. I've selected everything so that we can see it. everything so that we can see it. everything so that we can see it. >> Right, right. >> And so you can see there's just a ton of >> And so you can see there's just a ton of information.

information. information. There's the command line. There's the command line. There's the command line. >> Interesting. Now on um >> Interesting. Now on um >> Interesting. Now on um on uh on uh on uh Process Explorer, one of the things it's Process Explorer, one of the things it's Process Explorer, one of the things it's known for is you can right-click, search known for is you can right-click, search known for is you can right-click, search online. You can change stuff as well. online. You can change stuff as well. online. You can change stuff as well. You can set affinity, kill processes, You can set affinity, kill processes, You can set affinity, kill processes, and stuff like that. and stuff like that. and stuff like that. >> same here. >> same here. >> same here. >> Nice. >> Um one of the things that I You can look >> Um one of the things that I You can look at properties. at properties. at properties. So you can see here image information, So you can see here image information, So you can see here image information, the signature the signature the signature performance stats performance stats performance stats and performance graph. and performance graph. and performance graph. >> Are the Are the graphs are bespoke as >> Are the Are the graphs are bespoke as >> Are the Are the graphs are bespoke as well? well? well? >> Yeah, graphs are bespoke, threads >> Yeah, graphs are bespoke, threads >> Yeah, graphs are bespoke, threads uh uh uh security information, entitlements security information, entitlements security information, entitlements >> Right, right. >> Right, right. >> Right, right. >> in the sandbox or not >> in the sandbox or not >> in the sandbox or not environment strings if they're environment strings if they're environment strings if they're available, the strings in the image You available, the strings in the image You available, the strings in the image You can see can see can see >> Strings in the image, very nice. Nice. >> Strings in the image, very nice. Nice. >> Strings in the image, very nice. Nice. >> Um And then the system information. And then the system information. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> So summary. This is all custom. >> So summary. This is all custom. >> So summary. This is all custom. >> That's a very nice screen right there. >> That's a very nice screen right there. >> That's a very nice screen right there. >> Yeah, this is all custom.

>> Yeah, this is all custom. >> Yeah, this is all custom. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Um and I had By the way, this was also >> Um and I had By the way, this was also >> Um and I had By the way, this was also hard to get it to size this hard to get it to size this hard to get it to size this appropriately and layout appropriately. appropriately and layout appropriately. appropriately and layout appropriately. I had to tweak it a lot to do that. I had to tweak it a lot to do that. I had to tweak it a lot to do that. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> E-core and P-core information >> E-core and P-core information >> E-core and P-core information >> See, this is one that I've said this >> See, this is one that I've said this >> See, this is one that I've said this publicly, Task Manager publicly, Task Manager publicly, Task Manager I would very much like it to show me I would very much like it to show me I would very much like it to show me e-cores and p-cores because I don't e-cores and p-cores because I don't e-cores and p-cores because I don't think people realize especially on Mac think people realize especially on Mac think people realize especially on Mac people don't realize that they only have people don't realize that they only have people don't realize that they only have four p-cores. Yeah. They just They don't four p-cores. Yeah. They just They don't four p-cores. Yeah. They just They don't even think about it. And there's nothing even think about it. And there's nothing even think about it. And there's nothing that I have seen that I have seen that I have seen on a Mac that shows you that stuff. Now, where would I get that feature Now, where would I get that feature there? You just gave me system there? You just gave me system there? You just gave me system information. How do I get that on system information. How do I get that on system information. How do I get that on system internals for Windows? internals for Windows? internals for Windows? >> Uh well, it's in process explorer. You >> Uh well, it's in process explorer. You >> Uh well, it's in process explorer. You just click on the on here. just click on the on here. just click on the on here. >> click >> click >> click Oh, dude. I never click on that little Oh, dude. I never click on that little Oh, dude. I never click on that little graph. graph. graph. >> You got a view system info. >> You got a view system info. >> You got a view system info. >> Okay. But if I go one core, how do you >> Okay. But if I go one core, how do you >> Okay. But if I go one core, how do you on on Windows you don't show p-cores. on on Windows you don't show p-cores. on on Windows you don't show p-cores. How do I know whether a core is a p-core How do I know whether a core is a p-core How do I know whether a core is a p-core or an e-core? or an e-core? or an e-core? >> Um I don't remember if I we added that >> Um I don't remember if I we added that >> Um I don't remember if I we added that or not to process explorer.

or not to process explorer. or not to process explorer. >> think we have that. >> think we have that. >> think we have that. >> No. >> No. >> No. >> I've always wanted to know that. >> I've always wanted to know that. >> I've always wanted to know that. >> It's easy enough to add. >> It's easy enough to add. >> It's easy enough to add. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> CPU >> CPU >> CPU So, CPU info. There's CPU info EX the So, CPU info. There's CPU info EX the So, CPU info. There's CPU info EX the graphical version of or sorry, core graphical version of or sorry, core graphical version of or sorry, core info. That'll show you e-core and info. That'll show you e-core and info. That'll show you e-core and p-core. Go down. Load that one or run p-core. Go down. Load that one or run p-core. Go down. Load that one or run that cuz you got power toys installed. that cuz you got power toys installed. that cuz you got power toys installed. So, you've got it. So, you've got it. So, you've got it. >> Uh >> Uh >> Uh >> There's a graphical core info that will >> There's a graphical core info that will >> There's a graphical core info that will show you lots of detailed CPU show you lots of detailed CPU show you lots of detailed CPU information. information. information. >> Where is core usage though? >> Where is core usage though? >> Where is core usage though? >> It's in system tools suite. >> It's in system tools suite. >> It's in system tools suite. >> Oh, okay. Oh, core info. Yeah, that's >> Oh, okay. Oh, core info. Yeah, that's >> Oh, okay. Oh, core info. Yeah, that's the command line app. the command line app. the command line app. >> Yeah. There's a core info. >> Yeah. There's a core info. >> Yeah. There's a core info. >> Yeah. Well, I do I do with all love and >> Yeah. Well, I do I do with all love and >> Yeah. Well, I do I do with all love and due respect the status bar due respect the status bar due respect the status bar is not updating. is not updating. is not updating. >> It's not? >> It's not? >> It's not? >> So, it's been at CPU zero. Commit charge >> So, it's been at CPU zero. Commit charge >> So, it's been at CPU zero. Commit charge is not showing the percentage of commit is not showing the percentage of commit is not showing the percentage of commit charge. charge. charge. And physical usage, none of those have And physical usage, none of those have And physical usage, none of those have changed the whole time you've been changed the whole time you've been changed the whole time you've been running. running. running. >> Well, maybe nothing changed. >> Well, maybe nothing changed. >> Well, maybe nothing changed. >> I'm pretty sure your CPU usage is over >> I'm pretty sure your CPU usage is over >> I'm pretty sure your CPU usage is over zero. zero. zero. >> All right, fine. Thanks for the bug >> All right, fine. Thanks for the bug >> All right, fine. Thanks for the bug report.

report. report. >> I apologize. >> I apologize. >> I apologize. Uh Uh Uh >> Uh let me show you one other thing which >> Uh let me show you one other thing which >> Uh let me show you one other thing which I didn't So, you can do a searches, like I didn't So, you can do a searches, like I didn't So, you can do a searches, like >> Yeah, this is super helpful actually. >> Yeah, this is super helpful actually. >> Yeah, this is super helpful actually. Find DLL. Find DLL. Find DLL. >> It's a handle or DLL, just like in >> It's a handle or DLL, just like in >> It's a handle or DLL, just like in >> So many processes. 811 processes. I have >> So many processes. 811 processes. I have >> So many processes. 811 processes. I have 400 processes open on Windows right now. 400 processes open on Windows right now. 400 processes open on Windows right now. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You have 800 plus on Mac. >> You have 800 plus on Mac. >> You have 800 plus on Mac. >> So look at that. There's handles, the V >> So look at that. There's handles, the V >> So look at that. There's handles, the V nodes, and DLLs. nodes, and DLLs. nodes, and DLLs. >> there's Look at that. Why do you have a >> there's Look at that. Why do you have a >> there's Look at that. Why do you have a V node open on a trashed V node open on a trashed V node open on a trashed MP4? MP4? MP4? >> I have no idea. >> I have no idea. >> I have no idea. >> That's so interesting. >> That's so interesting. >> That's so interesting. >> By the QuickTime Player, cuz I must have >> By the QuickTime Player, cuz I must have >> By the QuickTime Player, cuz I must have QuickTime open. QuickTime open. QuickTime open. >> I would use this. I would use this in an >> I would use this. I would use this in an >> I would use this. I would use this in an in an operating systems class if I was in an operating systems class if I was in an operating systems class if I was teaching one. teaching one. teaching one. >> Yeah. Um Um What else? This one blew me away. What else? This one blew me away. What else? This one blew me away. So this is the window finder. So this is the window finder. So this is the window finder. With With With on Windows, you can drag that bull's-eye on Windows, you can drag that bull's-eye on Windows, you can drag that bull's-eye over a over a over a window and it'll take you to which window and it'll take you to which window and it'll take you to which process owns that window. And I'm like process owns that window. And I'm like process owns that window. And I'm like >> feature. >> feature. >> feature. >> So when I told it to implement feature, >> So when I told it to implement feature, >> So when I told it to implement feature, you know, compatibility, you know, compatibility, you know, compatibility, >> Yep.

>> Yep. >> Yep. >> I didn't explicitly tell it to do this >> I didn't explicitly tell it to do this >> I didn't explicitly tell it to do this one. one. one. And I didn't tell it how to make it And I didn't tell it how to make it And I didn't tell it how to make it work. And I was like it work. And I was like it work. And I was like it I thought it would just leave that and, I thought it would just leave that and, I thought it would just leave that and, you know, maybe I didn't even know if it you know, maybe I didn't even know if it you know, maybe I didn't even know if it could work on the Mac. could work on the Mac. could work on the Mac. >> Huh. >> Huh. >> Huh. >> But watch this. >> But watch this. >> But watch this. >> How did it know? >> How did it know? >> How did it know? >> But it says >> But it says >> But it says >> How did it do it? And there it is. And there it is. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. There was an application many, many There was an application many, many There was an application many, many years ago called Spy++ years ago called Spy++ years ago called Spy++ >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That was the very first time I ever saw >> That was the very first time I ever saw >> That was the very first time I ever saw that click on a bull's-eye pointed at a that click on a bull's-eye pointed at a that click on a bull's-eye pointed at a window. And I don't know why I find that window. And I don't know why I find that window. And I don't know why I find that to be such a delightful little feature, to be such a delightful little feature, to be such a delightful little feature, but it really is nice. but it really is nice. but it really is nice. >> Well, here it is on the Mac, which I >> Well, here it is on the Mac, which I >> Well, here it is on the Mac, which I didn't didn't didn't And that UX And that UX And that UX it came up with this, which I'm like, it came up with this, which I'm like, it came up with this, which I'm like, "You know what? I think I'm fine with "You know what? I think I'm fine with "You know what? I think I'm fine with that." that." that." >> And interesting. I'm comparing it to the >> And interesting. I'm comparing it to the >> And interesting. I'm comparing it to the one on one on one on It's actually nicer than the Windows It's actually nicer than the Windows It's actually nicer than the Windows one, that particular one, that particular one, that particular >> one >> one >> one >> when do you take it and you drag it up >> when do you take it and you drag it up >> when do you take it and you drag it up >> You drag it and you hold it down.

>> You drag it and you hold it down. >> You drag it and you hold it down. >> Which I like a little better than this, >> Which I like a little better than this, >> Which I like a little better than this, but this is fine, too. And I don't know but this is fine, too. And I don't know but this is fine, too. And I don't know that's even possible. that's even possible. that's even possible. >> So, those toolbars look >> So, those toolbars look >> So, those toolbars look like like like they're custom. Like that looks like a they're custom. Like that looks like a they're custom. Like that looks like a Windows toolbar on Windows toolbar on Windows toolbar on >> It is a custom >> It is a custom >> It is a custom >> pull and but those are the exact same >> pull and but those are the exact same >> pull and but those are the exact same icons. So, did it pull those icons over? icons. So, did it pull those icons over? icons. So, did it pull those icons over? >> They use the same icons. >> They use the same icons. >> They use the same icons. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> went into the Windows source and pulled >> went into the Windows source and pulled >> went into the Windows source and pulled those icons out. those icons out. those icons out. >> Okay. And then >> Okay. And then >> Okay. And then there's a another missing So, I see CPU there's a another missing So, I see CPU there's a another missing So, I see CPU >> One other thing. >> One other thing. >> One other thing. To get this information about system To get this information about system To get this information about system processes, you can't do that. So, you processes, you can't do that. So, you processes, you can't do that. So, you know, in Windows you do UAC elevation. know, in Windows you do UAC elevation. know, in Windows you do UAC elevation. There's no UAC elevation on the Mac. There's no UAC elevation on the Mac. There's no UAC elevation on the Mac. >> Uh-huh. >> Uh-huh. >> Uh-huh. >> So, there's this >> So, there's this >> So, there's this um >> Well, there is a UAC like there is a Mac >> Well, there is a UAC like there is a Mac wants to do a thing dialogue, right? wants to do a thing dialogue, right? wants to do a thing dialogue, right? >> Yeah, there is. But there's a actually >> Yeah, there is. But there's a actually >> Yeah, there is. But there's a actually cuz I'm running elevated, you don't see cuz I'm running elevated, you don't see cuz I'm running elevated, you don't see it. But if you're not running elevated, it. But if you're not running elevated, it. But if you're not running elevated, it has it in stall it has it in stall it has it in stall Proc X Mac Proc X Mac Proc X Mac elevation helper.

elevation helper. elevation helper. >> Oh, they actually made a helper for you. >> Oh, they actually made a helper for you. >> Oh, they actually made a helper for you. >> Yeah, so it has to be signed to have >> Yeah, so it has to be signed to have >> Yeah, so it has to be signed to have that information. So, it's self-signed that information. So, it's self-signed that information. So, it's self-signed with the develop you know, self with the develop you know, self with the develop you know, self developer here developer here developer here to run elevated. And then it's the one to run elevated. And then it's the one to run elevated. And then it's the one that gives Process Explorer that gives Process Explorer that gives Process Explorer this detailed information about these this detailed information about these this detailed information about these system processes. system processes. system processes. >> At the top there, you've got CPU in a >> At the top there, you've got CPU in a >> At the top there, you've got CPU in a green point at the green green point at the green green point at the green in the toolbar. in the toolbar. in the toolbar. >> This? >> This? >> This? >> You have CPU, then you have system >> You have CPU, then you have system >> You have CPU, then you have system commit. commit. commit. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Those should have um >> Those should have um >> Those should have um tool tooltips. tool tooltips. tool tooltips. >> Yeah, they should. >> Yeah, they should. >> Yeah, they should. >> Um and then network >> Um and then network >> Um and then network on the Windows machine, there's 1 2 3 4 on the Windows machine, there's 1 2 3 4 on the Windows machine, there's 1 2 3 4 5. 5. 5. >> Yeah, so they >> Yeah, so they >> Yeah, so they >> called? >> called? >> called? >> What are they called? Mini graphs. >> What are they called? Mini graphs. >> What are they called? Mini graphs. >> charts cuz there's five on my Windows >> charts cuz there's five on my Windows >> charts cuz there's five on my Windows machine. machine. machine. >> Yeah, there's mini graphs. >> Yeah, there's mini graphs. >> Yeah, there's mini graphs. >> Mini graphs, there you go. >> Mini graphs, there you go. >> Mini graphs, there you go. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And you click on the mini graph. I never >> And you click on the mini graph. I never >> And you click on the mini graph. I never knew I never knew I could click on a knew I never knew I could click on a knew I never knew I could click on a mini graph and see even more mini graph and see even more mini graph and see even more information. Yeah, the other thing click on the GPU Yeah, the other thing click on the GPU one cuz that's another thing that you've one cuz that's another thing that you've one cuz that's another thing that you've got in the system information. The got in the system information. The got in the system information. The sysinfo part this part here this is sysinfo part this part here this is sysinfo part this part here this is almost an app of its own.

almost an app of its own. almost an app of its own. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Don't you think? >> Don't you think? >> Don't you think? >> I guess. >> I guess. >> I guess. >> I think it is because then you have this >> I think it is because then you have this >> I think it is because then you have this feature on Windows that says view feature on Windows that says view feature on Windows that says view individual GPU engine usage. individual GPU engine usage. individual GPU engine usage. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Which is really nice. >> Which is really nice. >> Which is really nice. It's interesting. Do you think that this It's interesting. Do you think that this It's interesting. Do you think that this should look different or behave should look different or behave should look different or behave differently? Like look at memory because differently? Like look at memory because differently? Like look at memory because of the UMA because of the universal of the UMA because of the universal of the UMA because of the universal memory architecture. memory architecture. memory architecture. >> For Mac? >> For Mac? >> For Mac? >> Yeah, cuz Mac has unified memory. >> Yeah, cuz Mac has unified memory. >> Yeah, cuz Mac has unified memory. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I think what would be cool would be to >> I think what would be cool would be to >> I think what would be cool would be to see if and how you use this and if other see if and how you use this and if other see if and how you use this and if other people use it if you put this on people use it if you put this on people use it if you put this on on GitHub or not. on GitHub or not. on GitHub or not. What what is the correct metaphor to What what is the correct metaphor to What what is the correct metaphor to show memory being allocated between the show memory being allocated between the show memory being allocated between the GPU and the CPU? GPU and the CPU? GPU and the CPU? >> I don't know. >> I don't know. >> I don't know. >> Cuz if you load it up a cuz this is an >> Cuz if you load it up a cuz this is an >> Cuz if you load it up a cuz this is an M5, right? M5, right? M5, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right, but it's only got 32 gigs. So >> Right, but it's only got 32 gigs. So >> Right, but it's only got 32 gigs. So it's kind of a smaller M5. it's kind of a smaller M5. it's kind of a smaller M5. If you were to go and load up a olama or If you were to go and load up a olama or If you were to go and load up a olama or something something something on Windows in the task man, we call out on Windows in the task man, we call out on Windows in the task man, we call out and CPU and GPU separately and NPU.

and CPU and GPU separately and NPU. and CPU and GPU separately and NPU. And on memory we have GPU memory and we And on memory we have GPU memory and we And on memory we have GPU memory and we have system memory. But on Mac it's all have system memory. But on Mac it's all have system memory. But on Mac it's all unified like this until unified memory unified like this until unified memory unified like this until unified memory systems like the new surfaces come out systems like the new surfaces come out systems like the new surfaces come out in the in the later on. in the in the later on. in the in the later on. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But this is a process explorer. So it's >> But this is a process explorer. So it's >> But this is a process explorer. So it's very process orientated. very process orientated. very process orientated. >> But I but I think those are things to >> But I but I think those are things to >> But I but I think those are things to look into. Like basically look into. Like basically look into. Like basically two days. two days. two days. >> Oh, it's unbelievable. What's the little >> Oh, it's unbelievable. What's the little >> Oh, it's unbelievable. What's the little chart is you actually have some chart is you actually have some chart is you actually have some additional stuff. Do you have a little additional stuff. Do you have a little additional stuff. Do you have a little mini chart happening in the column? mini chart happening in the column? mini chart happening in the column? >> Oh, yeah. It decided to do this. I'm >> Oh, yeah. It decided to do this. I'm >> Oh, yeah. It decided to do this. I'm like oh, that's kind of cool. So instead like oh, that's kind of cool. So instead like oh, that's kind of cool. So instead of showing highlight colors, it shows of showing highlight colors, it shows of showing highlight colors, it shows you relative usage you relative usage you relative usage >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> with the mini charts. >> with the mini charts. >> with the mini charts. >> Yeah, that could even be an improvement >> Yeah, that could even be an improvement >> Yeah, that could even be an improvement in uh in uh in uh >> Yeah, and assistant and the >> Yeah, and assistant and the >> Yeah, and assistant and the >> Yeah, once you figure out the x-axis, >> Yeah, once you figure out the x-axis, >> Yeah, once you figure out the x-axis, yeah, that is kind of cool. I like that. yeah, that is kind of cool. I like that. yeah, that is kind of cool. I like that. It's almost like those mini charts you It's almost like those mini charts you It's almost like those mini charts you get in Excel. get in Excel. get in Excel. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> And how long did this take? >> And how long did this take? >> And how long did this take? >> Two days of prompting. >> Two days of prompting. >> Two days of prompting. >> That's insane. >> That's insane. >> That's insane. >> It's >> It's >> It's >> Are you going to like What about all the >> Are you going to like What about all the >> Are you going to like What about all the administrativia cuz you got to get like administrativia cuz you got to get like administrativia cuz you got to get like a developer cert and put it in the store a developer cert and put it in the store a developer cert and put it in the store and all that stuff?

and all that stuff? and all that stuff? >> So, we're starting on that and creating >> So, we're starting on that and creating >> So, we're starting on that and creating the build pipeline for it so that it's a the build pipeline for it so that it's a the build pipeline for it so that it's a fit one whatever. fit one whatever. fit one whatever. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> It's open source, too. >> It's open source, too. >> It's open source, too. But, But, But, it's just it's just it's just Here's the auto start locations, by the Here's the auto start locations, by the Here's the auto start locations, by the way. way. way. >> It'd be cool to be able to right click >> It'd be cool to be able to right click >> It'd be cool to be able to right click on those and then go to that folder. on those and then go to that folder. on those and then go to that folder. >> Uh >> Uh >> Uh Well, you can go to Well, you can go to Well, you can go to here. here. here. >> Oh, wow. Yeah, see? There you go. Okay, >> Oh, wow. Yeah, see? There you go. Okay, >> Oh, wow. Yeah, see? There you go. Okay, I think you have that as well. I think you have that as well. I think you have that as well. >> Yeah. >> Do you have that feature on Windows, >> Do you have that feature on Windows, too? too? too? >> Yeah, I do. >> That explorer, that's nice. >> That explorer, that's nice. Wow. Wow. Wow. So, this is just another example of So, this is just another example of So, this is just another example of something you thought would take you all something you thought would take you all something you thought would take you all summer. summer. summer. >> I mean, this is like jaw-dropping is >> I mean, this is like jaw-dropping is >> I mean, this is like jaw-dropping is what it is. It's just what it is. It's just what it is. It's just >> Okay. So, >> Okay. So, >> Okay. So, >> really It is really like science >> really It is really like science >> really It is really like science fiction. >> But, reconcile this with is it really >> But, reconcile this with is it really just about out of distribution and just about out of distribution and just about out of distribution and inside the distribution like inside inside the distribution like inside inside the distribution like inside normal curve?

normal curve? normal curve? >> Well, I think I think it's the common >> Well, I think I think it's the common >> Well, I think I think it's the common So, So, So, this weekend I also was doing on my uh this weekend I also was doing on my uh this weekend I also was doing on my uh AI research AI research AI research >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> and I ran into over and over again AI >> and I ran into over and over again AI >> and I ran into over and over again AI saying one thing saying one thing saying one thing and then me digging at it and then it and then me digging at it and then it and then me digging at it and then it realizing it's wrong. realizing it's wrong. realizing it's wrong. Over like Over like Over like to the point where I'm just like I can't to the point where I'm just like I can't to the point where I'm just like I can't trust anything it's saying. I Cuz I ran trust anything it's saying. I Cuz I ran trust anything it's saying. I Cuz I ran with this project for a while trusting with this project for a while trusting with this project for a while trusting as it's like as it's like as it's like "Hey, I ran 40 tests. Uh Uh 13 of the "Hey, I ran 40 tests. Uh Uh 13 of the "Hey, I ran 40 tests. Uh Uh 13 of the benchmark tests failed. The other one benchmark tests failed. The other one benchmark tests failed. The other one succeeded." And I'm like, "Okay, great. succeeded." And I'm like, "Okay, great. succeeded." And I'm like, "Okay, great. 13 failed then." 13 failed then." 13 failed then." And I take it at face value. That fail And I take it at face value. That fail And I take it at face value. That fail means means means that the test that the test that the test you know, that the the you know, that the the you know, that the the system under test wasn't able to pass system under test wasn't able to pass system under test wasn't able to pass the test. the test. the test. So, I start digging into the results So, I start digging into the results So, I start digging into the results this weekend and I find out, "Well, this weekend and I find out, "Well, this weekend and I find out, "Well, actually actually actually 12 of those failures were because of 12 of those failures were because of 12 of those failures were because of bugs bugs bugs in the setup." in the setup." in the setup." And it be it it's there in the logs.

And it be it it's there in the logs. And it be it it's there in the logs. Like, you know, missing dependency or Like, you know, missing dependency or Like, you know, missing dependency or whatever. Like, the test never actually whatever. Like, the test never actually whatever. Like, the test never actually ran. ran. ran. But the AI just counted it as a failure. But the AI just counted it as a failure. But the AI just counted it as a failure. And didn't make it clear. This is not a And didn't make it clear. This is not a And didn't make it clear. This is not a actually a failure of the system under actually a failure of the system under actually a failure of the system under test. This is a failure to even run the test. This is a failure to even run the test. This is a failure to even run the test. test. test. So, there's example after example of me So, there's example after example of me So, there's example after example of me of it saying something. And then I'm of it saying something. And then I'm of it saying something. And then I'm like, "That doesn't Like, it's like, like, "That doesn't Like, it's like, like, "That doesn't Like, it's like, "Oh, I did another test. These tests "Oh, I did another test. These tests "Oh, I did another test. These tests require have in them the the system is require have in them the the system is require have in them the the system is using a consultant." And so, it calls using a consultant." And so, it calls using a consultant." And so, it calls the consultant multiple times. the consultant multiple times. the consultant multiple times. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> So, it's giving me the stats for a a run >> So, it's giving me the stats for a a run >> So, it's giving me the stats for a a run and it's like and it's like and it's like "The the run passed. "The the run passed. "The the run passed. Um interesting thing is there were no Um interesting thing is there were no Um interesting thing is there were no consultant calls." consultant calls." consultant calls." And I'm like And I'm like And I'm like "There were consultant calls." "There were consultant calls." "There were consultant calls." And then it's like, "Let me look." And And then it's like, "Let me look." And And then it's like, "Let me look." And it comes back after a minute of digging it comes back after a minute of digging it comes back after a minute of digging through stuff. He's like, "Yep, you're through stuff. He's like, "Yep, you're through stuff. He's like, "Yep, you're right. I was wrong. There were right. I was wrong. There were right. I was wrong. There were consultant calls. It's in a different consultant calls. It's in a different consultant calls. It's in a different log than I what I was looking in." log than I what I was looking in." log than I what I was looking in." I'm telling you that there were there's I'm telling you that there were there's I'm telling you that there were there's just been in this project just been in this project just been in this project >> Right. And it's like, "How do you >> Right. And it's like, "How do you >> Right. And it's like, "How do you reconcile jaw-dropping made something in reconcile jaw-dropping made something in reconcile jaw-dropping made something in 2 days with so dumb that it can't follow 2 days with so dumb that it can't follow 2 days with so dumb that it can't follow basic instructions?"

basic instructions?" basic instructions?" >> And it's just example after example in >> And it's just example after example in >> And it's just example after example in this project. Like, example at like this project. Like, example at like this project. Like, example at like Really, I'm just like, Really, I'm just like, Really, I'm just like, you know, you get to the point where you know, you get to the point where you know, you get to the point where >> Also, >> Also, >> Also, this is the thing. It would take me this is the thing. It would take me this is the thing. It would take me I'm just looking at this and thinking I'm just looking at this and thinking I'm just looking at this and thinking about my own knowledge and also the about my own knowledge and also the about my own knowledge and also the atrophy of my own abilities. atrophy of my own abilities. atrophy of my own abilities. I would probably take me I would probably take me I would probably take me two to four weeks to get a two to four weeks to get a two to four weeks to get a basic version of this working and basic version of this working and basic version of this working and probably three to six months. probably three to six months. probably three to six months. >> You mean pre-AI? >> You mean pre-AI? >> You mean pre-AI? >> To make this pre-AI. >> To make this pre-AI. >> To make this pre-AI. >> Yeah, pre-AI for sure. >> Yeah, pre-AI for sure. >> Yeah, pre-AI for sure. >> making that up. You know what I mean? >> making that up. You know what I mean? >> making that up. You know what I mean? But I just feel like I would probably But I just feel like I would probably But I just feel like I would probably just knowing I couldn't do it 40 hours a just knowing I couldn't do it 40 hours a just knowing I couldn't do it 40 hours a week, my head would hurt. So 25 30 hours week, my head would hurt. So 25 30 hours week, my head would hurt. So 25 30 hours a week a week a week you know, I'd have a I'd have big bursts you know, I'd have a I'd have big bursts you know, I'd have a I'd have big bursts where I get the basics going and then where I get the basics going and then where I get the basics going and then all the little details, sh- I mean, come all the little details, sh- I mean, come all the little details, sh- I mean, come on. You could spend a week and a half on on. You could spend a week and a half on on. You could spend a week and a half on the charts. the charts. the charts. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And then and then the architecture on >> And then and then the architecture on >> And then and then the architecture on which like avoiding god objects and which like avoiding god objects and which like avoiding god objects and making sure that you're doing uh making sure that you're doing uh making sure that you're doing uh reactive, you know, like how your reactive, you know, like how your reactive, you know, like how your message passing, which by the way, I message passing, which by the way, I message passing, which by the way, I know that you do it differently cuz it's know that you do it differently cuz it's know that you do it differently cuz it's written in Win32.

written in Win32. written in Win32. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> The way that you make sure that >> The way that you make sure that >> The way that you make sure that everything is cuz one of the things this everything is cuz one of the things this everything is cuz one of the things this is very well known for is that it's is very well known for is that it's is very well known for is that it's constantly updating across multiple constantly updating across multiple constantly updating across multiple modeless windows. modeless windows. modeless windows. That's architecture that is something That's architecture that is something That's architecture that is something that you have to think about. I I'm that you have to think about. I I'm that you have to think about. I I'm curious how it decided to do that. curious how it decided to do that. curious how it decided to do that. Um the reason I'm saying that is that Um the reason I'm saying that is that Um the reason I'm saying that is that >> the example on the strings tab, it was >> the example on the strings tab, it was >> the example on the strings tab, it was getting the strings synchronously and so getting the strings synchronously and so getting the strings synchronously and so when I opened the strings tab when I opened the strings tab when I opened the strings tab >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> see [clears throat] the you know, the >> see [clears throat] the you know, the >> see [clears throat] the you know, the Mac rainbow Mac rainbow Mac rainbow icon cursor for busy. icon cursor for busy. icon cursor for busy. >> Yep. Yep. >> Yep. Yep. >> Yep. Yep. >> And it would sit there for 30 seconds >> And it would sit there for 30 seconds >> And it would sit there for 30 seconds before it So I'm like, make that async. before it So I'm like, make that async. before it So I'm like, make that async. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> Exactly. So like >> Exactly. So like >> Exactly. So like doing that right and doing that doing that right and doing that doing that right and doing that correctly like I'm still struggling with correctly like I'm still struggling with correctly like I'm still struggling with a god object in an app that I'm working a god object in an app that I'm working a god object in an app that I'm working on right now and it's I I'm I don't know on right now and it's I I'm I don't know on right now and it's I I'm I don't know how I'm going to pull it out. I'm going how I'm going to pull it out. I'm going how I'm going to pull it out. I'm going to have to just sit down and do it to have to just sit down and do it to have to just sit down and do it myself over a week. myself over a week. myself over a week. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But think about also the API surfaces But think about also the API surfaces But think about also the API surfaces you got to even for ZoomIt like the you got to even for ZoomIt like the you got to even for ZoomIt like the audio surfaces, the video capture audio surfaces, the video capture audio surfaces, the video capture surfaces, the webcam surface, the screen surfaces, the webcam surface, the screen surfaces, the webcam surface, the screen surfaces. It actually on the ZoomIt for surfaces. It actually on the ZoomIt for surfaces. It actually on the ZoomIt for Mac um which here let's take a look at Mac um which here let's take a look at Mac um which here let's take a look at Zoomit for Mac. Here's live zoom on Zoomit for Mac. Here's live zoom on Zoomit for Mac. Here's live zoom on Zoomit for Mac.

Zoomit for Mac. Zoomit for Mac. So this is live updates. So this is live updates. So this is live updates. >> Okay so just a interesting note here. >> Okay so just a interesting note here. >> Okay so just a interesting note here. I'm not seeing anything. I'm not seeing anything. I'm not seeing anything. >> Ah, that's because it's not on the >> Ah, that's because it's not on the >> Ah, that's because it's not on the >> That's because you're doing something >> That's because you're doing something >> That's because you're doing something possibly elevated on a different surface possibly elevated on a different surface possibly elevated on a different surface and the and the and the browser that we're sharing our screen browser that we're sharing our screen browser that we're sharing our screen on. There now I see it. on. There now I see it. on. There now I see it. >> This is static zoom so the live zoom >> This is static zoom so the live zoom >> This is static zoom so the live zoom which which which >> I've seen the same issue with live zoom >> I've seen the same issue with live zoom >> I've seen the same issue with live zoom on Windows as well. on Windows as well. on Windows as well. I can Oh wow. I can Oh wow. I can Oh wow. Well sure that is a crisp and sharp Well sure that is a crisp and sharp Well sure that is a crisp and sharp arrow. arrow. arrow. >> You know why? Because this is >> You know why? Because this is >> You know why? Because this is it using a different surface at full res it using a different surface at full res it using a different surface at full res versus what I have to do on Zoomit which versus what I have to do on Zoomit which versus what I have to do on Zoomit which is I'm drawing directly on this on the is I'm drawing directly on this on the is I'm drawing directly on this on the image. image. image. So it's compositing an over it's an So it's compositing an over it's an So it's compositing an over it's an overlay a full res overlay. overlay a full res overlay. overlay a full res overlay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> one >> one >> one >> Who is scaling the fonts though as well? >> Who is scaling the fonts though as well? >> Who is scaling the fonts though as well? You're getting a nice anti-alias font You're getting a nice anti-alias font You're getting a nice anti-alias font zoom there as well. The Those numbers zoom there as well. The Those numbers zoom there as well. The Those numbers look great. look great. look great. Cuz when you zoom in I don't Why am I Cuz when you zoom in I don't Why am I Cuz when you zoom in I don't Why am I not seeing pixels? See? not seeing pixels? See? not seeing pixels? See? >> That >> That >> That That's well on Windows remember I added That's well on Windows remember I added That's well on Windows remember I added any alias any alias any alias >> added Oh I turned that off. I turned off >> added Oh I turned that off. I turned off >> added Oh I turned that off. I turned off anti-aliasing.

anti-aliasing. anti-aliasing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But look at the line though. You can see But look at the line though. You can see But look at the line though. You can see that's not anti-alias that's full res. that's not anti-alias that's full res. that's not anti-alias that's full res. >> Even when you zoom farther. >> Even when you zoom farther. >> Even when you zoom farther. Wow. Wow. Wow. Smooth zoomed image. I'm trying this Smooth zoomed image. I'm trying this Smooth zoomed image. I'm trying this now. I remember why. Yeah, I can see I got I remember why. Yeah, I can see I got smooth zoom image on it. I don't like smooth zoom image on it. I don't like smooth zoom image on it. I don't like the speed. I feel like it's faster the speed. I feel like it's faster the speed. I feel like it's faster without the smoothing on Windows. Now it's black. Yeah. Now it's black. Yeah. People are going to be very excited very People are going to be very excited very People are going to be very excited very excited about this. Yeah I had to turn that feature off. Yeah I had to turn that feature off. >> Um, feel right at home. >> Um, feel right at home. >> Um, feel right at home. Oh and here's the uh Zoom it. Oh and here's the uh Zoom it. Oh and here's the uh Zoom it. >> Oh, you even have a little thing there. >> Oh, you even have a little thing there. >> Oh, you even have a little thing there. Okay. Okay. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Like general, so it's launch it login. >> I think that people could argue if >> I think that people could argue if because the Mac people believe in their because the Mac people believe in their because the Mac people believe in their aesthetics, like it is differently aesthetics, like it is differently aesthetics, like it is differently aesthetic aesthetic aesthetic than Mac apps.

than Mac apps. than Mac apps. >> Um >> Um >> Um I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> That's going to be my my ringtone now. >> That's going to be my my ringtone now. >> That's going to be my my ringtone now. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Just when Mark calls, I don't care. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Fantastic. This is great. Okay, so when >> Fantastic. This is great. Okay, so when >> Fantastic. This is great. Okay, so when do you think this will be out? do you think this will be out? do you think this will be out? >> Um, I'm shooting for a few weeks just to >> Um, I'm shooting for a few weeks just to >> Um, I'm shooting for a few weeks just to get these out as quick as can. get these out as quick as can. get these out as quick as can. >> Is it just administration right now? How >> Is it just administration right now? How >> Is it just administration right now? How come it takes you an hour and a half to come it takes you an hour and a half to come it takes you an hour and a half to write it, but then weeks to get it out? write it, but then weeks to get it out? write it, but then weeks to get it out? >> It's just getting the build pipeline >> It's just getting the build pipeline >> It's just getting the build pipeline working for Mac builds and working for Mac builds and working for Mac builds and >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> GitHub does a great job at that. I'm >> GitHub does a great job at that. I'm >> GitHub does a great job at that. I'm actually building my artificial pancreas actually building my artificial pancreas actually building my artificial pancreas app. I used to build it on a Mac once a app. I used to build it on a Mac once a app. I used to build it on a Mac once a year year year and I switched to what we call browser and I switched to what we call browser and I switched to what we call browser build, which is just build in GitHub, build, which is just build in GitHub, build, which is just build in GitHub, and then I test flight it to myself. and then I test flight it to myself. and then I test flight it to myself. So, every Sunday I get a new build of my So, every Sunday I get a new build of my So, every Sunday I get a new build of my pancreas. pancreas. pancreas. >> Well, so we got to do official builds in >> Well, so we got to do official builds in >> Well, so we got to do official builds in ADO. ADO. ADO. >> Do you really? >> Do you really? >> Do you really? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Oh, wow. And ADO does Mac? >> Oh, wow. And ADO does Mac? >> Oh, wow. And ADO does Mac? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay.

Is there a reason for that? That you Is there a reason for that? That you can't just use GitHub? can't just use GitHub? can't just use GitHub? >> It's the build it's production build >> It's the build it's production build >> It's the build it's production build policy. policy. policy. >> Because reasons. >> Because reasons. >> Because reasons. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay, cool. >> Okay, cool. >> Okay, cool. That is impressive. So, what's the next? That is impressive. So, what's the next? That is impressive. So, what's the next? Are you going to go for ProcMon or Are you going to go for ProcMon or Are you going to go for ProcMon or what's the plan? what's the plan? what's the plan? >> I guess so. I mean, I'm like thinking, >> I guess so. I mean, I'm like thinking, >> I guess so. I mean, I'm like thinking, "Wow, that's a lot of Wait a minute." "Wow, that's a lot of Wait a minute." "Wow, that's a lot of Wait a minute." This is probably next weekend. >> Seriously? >> Seriously? >> I guess. I might as well. I mean, I >> I guess. I might as well. I mean, I >> I guess. I might as well. I mean, I really like really like really like this was so lightweight. I mean, I did this was so lightweight. I mean, I did this was so lightweight. I mean, I did prompt over the whole weekend, you know, prompt over the whole weekend, you know, prompt over the whole weekend, you know, but it wasn't full-time. I like I spent but it wasn't full-time. I like I spent but it wasn't full-time. I like I spent time outside and time outside and time outside and lots of lots of lots of >> I'm just looking here. There's disk >> I'm just looking here. There's disk >> I'm just looking here. There's disk monitor, proc monitor, debug view. monitor, proc monitor, debug view. monitor, proc monitor, debug view. I'd be interested in whatever the Mac I'd be interested in whatever the Mac I'd be interested in whatever the Mac equivalent to debug view is. I don't equivalent to debug view is. I don't equivalent to debug view is. I don't know if they have a know if they have a know if they have a global debug list. global debug list. global debug list. Auto runs. Auto runs. Auto runs. >> Uh proc monitor would probably be the >> Uh proc monitor would probably be the >> Uh proc monitor would probably be the next one. next one. next one. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Mac has a lot of auto running stuff in Mac has a lot of auto running stuff in Mac has a lot of auto running stuff in the background and it's a hard to find. the background and it's a hard to find. the background and it's a hard to find. >> Yeah. >> There's probably like 10 10 good solid >> There's probably like 10 10 good solid utilities. utilities. utilities. >> Lessons in being blown away by this.

>> Lessons in being blown away by this. >> Lessons in being blown away by this. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And this was GPT-5 and a little bit of And this was GPT-5 and a little bit of And this was GPT-5 and a little bit of Opus 48? Opus 48? Opus 48? >> Uh both I don't I wouldn't I don't know >> Uh both I don't I wouldn't I don't know >> Uh both I don't I wouldn't I don't know how much um how much um how much um >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But I know you're kind of >> But I know you're kind of >> But I know you're kind of non-denominational and you pick the one non-denominational and you pick the one non-denominational and you pick the one that works and have them be adversarial. that works and have them be adversarial. that works and have them be adversarial. >> I guess that I if one fails me, >> I guess that I if one fails me, >> I guess that I if one fails me, I fire it and start with the other one. I fire it and start with the other one. I fire it and start with the other one. >> Yeah, interesting. All right. Well, >> Yeah, interesting. All right. Well, >> Yeah, interesting. All right. Well, that's a show. That is impressive. that's a show. That is impressive. that's a show. That is impressive. Uh what's more impressive is that you, Uh what's more impressive is that you, Uh what's more impressive is that you, my wonderful viewers, uh have stayed my wonderful viewers, uh have stayed my wonderful viewers, uh have stayed till the end. Once again, till the end. Once again, till the end. Once again, you are better than your peers. You are you are better than your peers. You are you are better than your peers. You are superior because you're here to learn superior because you're here to learn superior because you're here to learn and you're here to have fun just like we and you're here to have fun just like we and you're here to have fun just like we are. Every week, Mark and Scott Learn are. Every week, Mark and Scott Learn are. Every week, Mark and Scott Learn Two tries to bring you something fresh Two tries to bring you something fresh Two tries to bring you something fresh to learn. [music] to learn. [music] to learn. [music] Uh and what you can do is you can think Uh and what you can do is you can think Uh and what you can do is you can think about ways to help build our viewership. about ways to help build our viewership. about ways to help build our viewership. We're going to come up with some [music] We're going to come up with some [music] We're going to come up with some [music] kind of a contest to find creative ways. kind of a contest to find creative ways. kind of a contest to find creative ways. So, put your creative ways in the chat So, put your creative ways in the chat So, put your creative ways in the chat and we'll try to give away maybe a and we'll try to give away maybe a and we'll try to give away maybe a ticket to Ignite or a conference ticket to Ignite or a conference ticket to Ignite or a conference >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> where you can come see Mark and Scott >> where you can come see Mark and Scott >> where you can come see Mark and Scott Learn Two Learn Two Learn Two live. live. live. Um there you go. All right, friends. Um there you go. All right, friends. Um there you go. All right, friends. Smash that bell, like and subscribe. Smash that bell, like and subscribe. Smash that bell, like and subscribe. We'll see you again next week.