EPISODE 8 - Scott and Mark Learn To...The History of Cloud

[Music] [Music] what I'm doing is I'm looking at the what I'm doing is I'm looking at the what I'm doing is I'm looking at the color of your skin as you open and close color of your skin as you open and close color of your skin as you open and close different different different windows and I'm trying to figure out windows and I'm trying to figure out windows and I'm trying to figure out what you're doing because I like it's what you're doing because I like it's what you're doing because I like it's like like like notepad it' be like one of those notepad it' be like one of those notepad it' be like one of those research articles like we were able to research articles like we were able to research articles like we were able to extract the contents of email people extract the contents of email people extract the contents of email people were reading through their webcam by were reading through their webcam by were reading through their webcam by looking at Reflections off their skin looking at Reflections off their skin looking at Reflections off their skin exactly that's exactly right because exactly that's exactly right because exactly that's exactly right because Mark renovich and Scott hansman had such Mark renovich and Scott hansman had such Mark renovich and Scott hansman had such great skin care we could see the great skin care we could see the great skin care we could see the reflection in their pores yeah then we reflection in their pores yeah then we reflection in their pores yeah then we do de do de do de blurring from the from the reflection blurring from the from the reflection blurring from the from the reflection you can see private Microsoft you can see private Microsoft you can see private Microsoft information in the reflection of my my information in the reflection of my my information in the reflection of my my in your re in your retinas actually in in your re in your retinas actually in in your re in your retinas actually in my retina oh God actually your glasses my retina oh God actually your glasses my retina oh God actually your glasses probably I can probably read your email probably I can probably read your email probably I can probably read your email from your glasses all right [Music] [Music] hey friends I'm Scott Hanselman and uh hey friends I'm Scott Hanselman and uh hey friends I'm Scott Hanselman and uh Mark renovich is here checking email and Mark renovich is here checking email and Mark renovich is here checking email and um you're busy man I do not have a um you're busy man I do not have a um you're busy man I do not have a problem doing our show I'll let you know problem doing our show I'll let you know problem doing our show I'll let you know go ahead and get on a teams call and

go ahead and get on a teams call and go ahead and get on a teams call and I'll let you know when we're ready for I'll let you know when we're ready for I'll let you know when we're ready for you here on the show um I uh I want to you here on the show um I uh I want to you here on the show um I uh I want to say it was 1990 something something and say it was 1990 something something and say it was 1990 something something and I was working at 800.com and we were I was working at 800.com and we were I was working at 800.com and we were selling three DVDs for a buck and um selling three DVDs for a buck and um selling three DVDs for a buck and um when we did that 3 dvds for a dollar when we did that 3 dvds for a dollar when we did that 3 dvds for a dollar promotion it changed the way that the promotion it changed the way that the promotion it changed the way that the site traffic work and it was on the uset site traffic work and it was on the uset site traffic work and it was on the uset and it blew up the internet like and it blew up the internet like and it blew up the internet like everyone rushed to 800.com to buy 3D for everyone rushed to 800.com to buy 3D for everyone rushed to 800.com to buy 3D for a dollar and historically 80% of our a dollar and historically 80% of our a dollar and historically 80% of our traffic had been people wandering around traffic had been people wandering around traffic had been people wandering around in the product catalog and then 20% was in the product catalog and then 20% was in the product catalog and then 20% was people checking out of the people checking out of the people checking out of the um uh of the the shopping cart and then um uh of the the shopping cart and then um uh of the the shopping cart and then once everyone had picked all their DVDs once everyone had picked all their DVDs once everyone had picked all their DVDs the traffic changed and it was like the traffic changed and it was like the traffic changed and it was like everyone was done going through the everyone was done going through the everyone was done going through the product catalog no one was going through product catalog no one was going through product catalog no one was going through the product catalog everyone wanted to the product catalog everyone wanted to the product catalog everyone wanted to get through the uh the shopping cart and get through the uh the shopping cart and get through the uh the shopping cart and we had to go and change the way our site we had to go and change the way our site we had to go and change the way our site scaled this would be like a very simple scaled this would be like a very simple scaled this would be like a very simple problem with kubernetes today but then problem with kubernetes today but then problem with kubernetes today but then it was redeploying it was thinking about it was redeploying it was thinking about it was redeploying it was thinking about Hardware we had shopping cart. 800.com Hardware we had shopping cart. 800.com Hardware we had shopping cart. 800.com we had to go down to PC Micro Center buy we had to go down to PC Micro Center buy we had to go down to PC Micro Center buy racked P you know computers stick them racked P you know computers stick them racked P you know computers stick them into the into the into the rack scaling the web Farm was a physical rack scaling the web Farm was a physical rack scaling the web Farm was a physical thing but now it's just a command line thing but now it's just a command line thing but now it's just a command line it's just a checkbox it's just a slider it's just a checkbox it's just a slider it's just a checkbox it's just a slider bar why what what happened that we bar why what what happened that we bar why what what happened that we needed to go away from self-hosting needed to go away from self-hosting needed to go away from self-hosting to H hiring a a local host a local

to H hiring a a local host a local to H hiring a a local host a local company to put our computers in a box company to put our computers in a box company to put our computers in a box and put our computers in a big giant and put our computers in a big giant and put our computers in a big giant Costco to the elasticity and the Costco to the elasticity and the Costco to the elasticity and the programmatic that we have with the cloud programmatic that we have with the cloud programmatic that we have with the cloud like what what business what capitalism like what what business what capitalism like what what business what capitalism caused the cloud to need to caused the cloud to need to caused the cloud to need to exist that's a good way of framing that exist that's a good way of framing that exist that's a good way of framing that question because I think um you were question because I think um you were question because I think um you were racking and stacking your own servers it racking and stacking your own servers it racking and stacking your own servers it sounds like yep and people still do like sounds like yep and people still do like sounds like yep and people still do like blue sky but there's there then hosters blue sky but there's there then hosters blue sky but there's there then hosters too that they would rack and stack them too that they would rack and stack them too that they would rack and stack them for you and just give them to you but it for you and just give them to you but it for you and just give them to you but it was very much a you know you order the was very much a you know you order the was very much a you know you order the server and Speck it andell they put they they deploy it and andell they put they they deploy it and then give you access to it and then they then give you access to it and then they then give you access to it and then they would manage it but it was very much would manage it but it was very much would manage it but it was very much just you know you get raw access to the just you know you get raw access to the just you know you get raw access to the server um the economics that led to it server um the economics that led to it server um the economics that led to it actually I think actually I think actually I think were first of all the rise of the were first of all the rise of the were first of all the rise of the internet in Internet services especially internet in Internet services especially internet in Internet services especially services that were driven by Mobile in services that were driven by Mobile in services that were driven by Mobile in fact the way that I actually got into fact the way that I actually got into fact the way that I actually got into Cloud was I was in Windows I joined Cloud was I was in Windows I joined Cloud was I was in Windows I joined windows in windows in windows in 2006 and it was right then that the 2006 and it was right then that the 2006 and it was right then that the mobile Revolution was mobile Revolution was mobile Revolution was happening uh I was in Windows through happening uh I was in Windows through happening uh I was in Windows through the end of end of Windows Vista Windows the end of end of Windows Vista Windows the end of end of Windows Vista Windows 7 and then Windows 8 and one of the 7 and then Windows 8 and one of the 7 and then Windows 8 and one of the things that I looked at was what was things that I looked at was what was things that I looked at was what was really d necessary to scale mobile were really d necessary to scale mobile were really d necessary to scale mobile were centralized services and this was very

centralized services and this was very centralized services and this was very much aligned with what Razzi had put in much aligned with what Razzi had put in much aligned with what Razzi had put in his uh memo in 2005 that he sent to the his uh memo in 2005 that he sent to the his uh memo in 2005 that he sent to the company software as a company software as a company software as a service um and services were the future service um and services were the future service um and services were the future of of of Microsoft and this was like echoing Bill Microsoft and this was like echoing Bill Microsoft and this was like echoing Bill Gates's internet Title Wave Memo from Gates's internet Title Wave Memo from Gates's internet Title Wave Memo from the 90s saying Microsoft needs to get to the 90s saying Microsoft needs to get to the 90s saying Microsoft needs to get to change itself to embrace this service change itself to embrace this service change itself to embrace this service world we're in because of world we're in because of world we're in because of mobile and at a year later Amazon mobile and at a year later Amazon mobile and at a year later Amazon launched launched launched AWS with ec2 and S3 that were that they AWS with ec2 and S3 that were that they AWS with ec2 and S3 that were that they built for their own services for their built for their own services for their built for their own services for their own amazon.com own amazon.com own amazon.com Services Microsoft actually had in Services Microsoft actually had in Services Microsoft actually had in parallel been looking at what kind of parallel been looking at what kind of parallel been looking at what kind of platform we could build for our own platform we could build for our own platform we could build for our own Services internally to make it easier Services internally to make it easier Services internally to make it easier for people to deploy and build these for people to deploy and build these for people to deploy and build these services and that led to the launch of services and that led to the launch of services and that led to the launch of something called project Red Dog which something called project Red Dog which something called project Red Dog which literally as I was joining Microsoft in literally as I was joining Microsoft in literally as I was joining Microsoft in in the mid2 2006 the red dog team was in the mid2 2006 the red dog team was in the mid2 2006 the red dog team was forming and my hero Dave Cutler who was forming and my hero Dave Cutler who was forming and my hero Dave Cutler who was the creator of Windows and T and the creator of Windows and T and the creator of Windows and T and VMS he you know joining windows and to VMS he you know joining windows and to VMS he you know joining windows and to work with Dave and he's like no I'm work with Dave and he's like no I'm work with Dave and he's like no I'm joining this red dog thing to work on joining this red dog thing to work on joining this red dog thing to work on just when you show up to work on Windows just when you show up to work on Windows just when you show up to work on Windows he's like no I'm going over there yeah he's like no I'm going over there yeah he's like no I'm going over there yeah so a small group of people working under so a small group of people working under so a small group of people working under Ray Azie were seeing if they could build Ray Azie were seeing if they could build Ray Azie were seeing if they could build a a platform for services so it really

a a platform for services so it really a a platform for services so it really start kind if you take a look at Amazon start kind if you take a look at Amazon start kind if you take a look at Amazon and Microsoft the Genesis of the clouds and Microsoft the Genesis of the clouds and Microsoft the Genesis of the clouds for us were focused on serving our own for us were focused on serving our own for us were focused on serving our own service needs but then saying hey we can service needs but then saying hey we can service needs but then saying hey we can also make this available to customers as also make this available to customers as also make this available to customers as well and this is a big difference well and this is a big difference well and this is a big difference between hosting your own platform and between hosting your own platform and between hosting your own platform and hosting a PL a platform for other people hosting a PL a platform for other people hosting a PL a platform for other people that is a that brings a that is a that brings a that is a that brings a huge amount of additional work and huge amount of additional work and huge amount of additional work and complexity because uh of the fact that complexity because uh of the fact that complexity because uh of the fact that you can trust your own people but you you can trust your own people but you you can trust your own people but you can't trust the the public can't trust the the public can't trust the the public service the people that are going to be service the people that are going to be service the people that are going to be using your public service was it the using your public service was it the using your public service was it the case that at Amazon they had basically case that at Amazon they had basically case that at Amazon they had basically separated things where it's like we have separated things where it's like we have separated things where it's like we have this shopping thing we need to build and this shopping thing we need to build and this shopping thing we need to build and we're going to need hosters to do it and we're going to need hosters to do it and we're going to need hosters to do it and we're not going to like you said we're we're not going to like you said we're we're not going to like you said we're not going to trust other people to do not going to trust other people to do not going to trust other people to do that so we'll create a platform group that so we'll create a platform group that so we'll create a platform group and they'll do the hosting and we had and they'll do the hosting and we had and they'll do the hosting and we had similar things going on with Halo and similar things going on with Halo and similar things going on with Halo and with Xbox and with Xbox Live so like with Xbox and with Xbox Live so like with Xbox and with Xbox Live so like Halo multiplayer was huge and they had Halo multiplayer was huge and they had Halo multiplayer was huge and they had their own cloud lowercase C maybe yeah their own cloud lowercase C maybe yeah their own cloud lowercase C maybe yeah as well that wasn't an Azure and they as well that wasn't an Azure and they as well that wasn't an Azure and they were learning about elasticity they were were learning about elasticity they were were learning about elasticity they were learning about orders of magnitude of learning about orders of magnitude of learning about orders of magnitude of scale yeah and I so that's true and and scale yeah and I so that's true and and scale yeah and I so that's true and and teams like you know Hotmail and Bing and teams like you know Hotmail and Bing and teams like you know Hotmail and Bing and whatever they were building their own whatever they were building their own whatever they were building their own kind of platforms but it that's kind of platforms but it that's kind of platforms but it that's different than cloud and there in fact different than cloud and there in fact different than cloud and there in fact when I joined Azure in 2010 when I joined Azure in 2010 when I joined Azure in 2010 there was even raging debate and nist there was even raging debate and nist there was even raging debate and nist came up with here's the definition of came up with here's the definition of came up with here's the definition of cloud which has had like five attributes

cloud which has had like five attributes cloud which has had like five attributes and all of these attributes distinguish and all of these attributes distinguish and all of these attributes distinguish it from hosting or creating your own it from hosting or creating your own it from hosting or creating your own internal scaling platform like it has to internal scaling platform like it has to internal scaling platform like it has to be multi-tenant it has to be on demand be multi-tenant it has to be on demand be multi-tenant it has to be on demand has to be has to be has to be self-service um and I can't remember self-service um and I can't remember self-service um and I can't remember what the other ones were but that those what the other ones were but that those what the other ones were but that those were some of the the definitions if you were some of the the definitions if you were some of the the definitions if you take take a look at those like on demand take take a look at those like on demand take take a look at those like on demand self-service those bring in some self-service those bring in some self-service those bring in some requirements that you don't have with requirements that you don't have with requirements that you don't have with your internal platform with internal your internal platform with internal your internal platform with internal platform somebody wants to scale platform somebody wants to scale platform somebody wants to scale something they can give you a open a something they can give you a open a something they can give you a open a service ticket and it can be like days service ticket and it can be like days service ticket and it can be like days and so the platform you know you goes and so the platform you know you goes and so the platform you know you goes goes and and manages the scale on demand goes and and manages the scale on demand goes and and manages the scale on demand and self-service means you like you were and self-service means you like you were and self-service means you like you were saying you move the slider and that's saying you move the slider and that's saying you move the slider and that's your way of saying I want it to scale your way of saying I want it to scale your way of saying I want it to scale and you expect it to scale instantly you and you expect it to scale instantly you and you expect it to scale instantly you don't humans shouldn't be involved with don't humans shouldn't be involved with don't humans shouldn't be involved with like oh Scott move the scale slider I like oh Scott move the scale slider I like oh Scott move the scale slider I need to go like and that's the part that need to go like and that's the part that need to go like and that's the part that I have my head kind of having trouble I have my head kind of having trouble I have my head kind of having trouble getting around is that I we went from a getting around is that I we went from a getting around is that I we went from a time where a business person would say time where a business person would say time where a business person would say scale on a Friday and they would go scale on a Friday and they would go scale on a Friday and they would go golfing and they would come back on golfing and they would come back on golfing and they would come back on Monday and the scaling problem would be Monday and the scaling problem would be Monday and the scaling problem would be solved but we worked all weekend racking solved but we worked all weekend racking solved but we worked all weekend racking and stacking servers and now it's a and stacking servers and now it's a and stacking servers and now it's a checkbox and as someone who's been on checkbox and as someone who's been on checkbox and as someone who's been on both sides of that it feels weird so as both sides of that it feels weird so as both sides of that it feels weird so as we try to explain what the cloud is to we try to explain what the cloud is to we try to explain what the cloud is to young people to early in career people young people to early in career people young people to early in career people who weren't there in 2006 who weren't there in 2006 who weren't there in 2006 the appreciation for what is happening the appreciation for what is happening the appreciation for what is happening in these to to make something the cloud in these to to make something the cloud in these to to make something the cloud I think is is Miss it's kind of people

I think is is Miss it's kind of people I think is is Miss it's kind of people just take it for granted once they it just take it for granted once they it just take it for granted once they it shows up but the you know going to the shows up but the you know going to the shows up but the you know going to the economics so what drove the economics of economics so what drove the economics of economics so what drove the economics of cloud it's the multi-tenancy it's the cloud it's the multi-tenancy it's the cloud it's the multi-tenancy it's the fact fact fact that instead of getting dedicated that instead of getting dedicated that instead of getting dedicated servers now I'm using servers from a servers now I'm using servers from a servers now I'm using servers from a giant pool of servers MH and that that giant pool of servers MH and that that giant pool of servers MH and that that actually allows me to scale in out and actually allows me to scale in out and actually allows me to scale in out and save money because I don't need and this save money because I don't need and this save money because I don't need and this was one of the big arguments you know was one of the big arguments you know was one of the big arguments you know we'd have or con or for on for we'd have or con or for on for we'd have or con or for on for Enterprises about what's the value of Enterprises about what's the value of Enterprises about what's the value of going to the cloud where there's two big going to the cloud where there's two big going to the cloud where there's two big values one of them is if you got values one of them is if you got values one of them is if you got workloads that are workloads that are workloads that are elastic or periodic like you have to elastic or periodic like you have to elastic or periodic like you have to spin them up like test resources or or spin them up like test resources or or spin them up like test resources or or spin them down what you do typically do spin them down what you do typically do spin them down what you do typically do on Enterprise you just need to provision on Enterprise you just need to provision on Enterprise you just need to provision for the max because you have nowhere for the max because you have nowhere for the max because you have nowhere else to go other than your own footprint else to go other than your own footprint else to go other than your own footprint and we used to talk about like well we and we used to talk about like well we and we used to talk about like well we have 30% CPU is a good Baseline because have 30% CPU is a good Baseline because have 30% CPU is a good Baseline because we have room we have head room or 60% we have room we have head room or 60% we have room we have head room or 60% like we'd all decide as a workload what like we'd all decide as a workload what like we'd all decide as a workload what was a reasonable amount of Headroom but was a reasonable amount of Headroom but was a reasonable amount of Headroom but everything else was wasted we were not everything else was wasted we were not everything else was wasted we were not running those servers they did idle running those servers they did idle running those servers they did idle right if they're not being used like if right if they're not being used like if right if they're not being used like if you you know talk about a a company that you you know talk about a a company that you you know talk about a a company that does taxes or a company that does does taxes or a company that does does taxes or a company that does Financial reportings so those things are Financial reportings so those things are Financial reportings so those things are going to burst at the end of the month going to burst at the end of the month going to burst at the end of the month or once a year and they've got a pre or once a year and they've got a pre or once a year and they've got a pre provision for that Max Capacity um provision for that Max Capacity um provision for that Max Capacity um whereas when you're dealing with a whereas when you're dealing with a whereas when you're dealing with a multi-tenant multi-tenant multi-tenant environment you do statistical over environment you do statistical over environment you do statistical over subscription which means there's a whole

subscription which means there's a whole subscription which means there's a whole bunch of customers in there they all bunch of customers in there they all bunch of customers in there they all have Peaks but those Peaks happen at have Peaks but those Peaks happen at have Peaks but those Peaks happen at different times in an aggregate the different times in an aggregate the different times in an aggregate the amount of capacity there satisfies amount of capacity there satisfies amount of capacity there satisfies everybody's Peaks but they can all scale everybody's Peaks but they can all scale everybody's Peaks but they can all scale down and that the cloud can drive close down and that the cloud can drive close down and that the cloud can drive close to 100% to 100% to 100% utilization giving everybody this utilization giving everybody this utilization giving everybody this illusion that can scale down and they illusion that can scale down and they illusion that can scale down and they can scale up and it's kind of infinite can scale up and it's kind of infinite can scale up and it's kind of infinite and they can do it whenever they want to and they can do it whenever they want to and they can do it whenever they want to and so that is part of the economics of and so that is part of the economics of and so that is part of the economics of the cloud the other part of the the cloud the other part of the the cloud the other part of the economics of the cloud is agility economics of the cloud is agility economics of the cloud is agility because again self-service on demand API because again self-service on demand API because again self-service on demand API driven just go do it means that you can driven just go do it means that you can driven just go do it means that you can stand up a new site within minutes and stand up a new site within minutes and stand up a new site within minutes and like you know in Azure this was one of like you know in Azure this was one of like you know in Azure this was one of Scott Guthries in the early days of Scott Guthries in the early days of Scott Guthries in the early days of azure he's like I want it so that you azure he's like I want it so that you azure he's like I want it so that you can go to Azure web app in 90 seconds can go to Azure web app in 90 seconds can go to Azure web app in 90 seconds you have your you have your you have your website and it but but there's a VM website and it but but there's a VM website and it but but there's a VM underneath and something has to be kept underneath and something has to be kept underneath and something has to be kept warm like keep the car running is what warm like keep the car running is what warm like keep the car running is what he's saying but in keeping the car he's saying but in keeping the car he's saying but in keeping the car running then it's on us it's on Azure running then it's on us it's on Azure running then it's on us it's on Azure it's on the cloud Hoster the cloud it's on the cloud Hoster the cloud it's on the cloud Hoster the cloud provider to be smart about economies of provider to be smart about economies of provider to be smart about economies of scale otherwise then it's just somebody scale otherwise then it's just somebody scale otherwise then it's just somebody else leaving the car running all the else leaving the car running all the else leaving the car running all the time you don't want idle cars because time you don't want idle cars because time you don't want idle cars because then you're wasting energy you're then you're wasting energy you're then you're wasting energy you're hurting the environment etc etc yeah hurting the environment etc etc yeah hurting the environment etc etc yeah okay the um the scale up illusion is okay the um the scale up illusion is okay the um the scale up illusion is very complete like there's if if I can very complete like there's if if I can very complete like there's if if I can go from 1 to go from 1 to go from 1 to 30 like that um but I don't see what's 30 like that um but I don't see what's 30 like that um but I don't see what's really happening in the back end like

really happening in the back end like really happening in the back end like it's looking for capacity all over is it it's looking for capacity all over is it it's looking for capacity all over is it like remember in the old days when we like remember in the old days when we like remember in the old days when we used to defrag our hard drives I imagine used to defrag our hard drives I imagine used to defrag our hard drives I imagine this is how I visualized the cloud I this is how I visualized the cloud I this is how I visualized the cloud I imagine like a Costco like you know a imagine like a Costco like you know a imagine like a Costco like you know a Costco warehouse filled with computers Costco warehouse filled with computers Costco warehouse filled with computers and then I zoom out and I look at it and then I zoom out and I look at it and then I zoom out and I look at it like a defrag thing and I'm like okay my like a defrag thing and I'm like okay my like a defrag thing and I'm like okay my computer is here here here here and here computer is here here here here and here computer is here here here here and here now that's multi-tenancy but when I was now that's multi-tenancy but when I was now that's multi-tenancy but when I was working in banking and we were going and working in banking and we were going and working in banking and we were going and selling multitenant banking systems the selling multitenant banking systems the selling multitenant banking systems the banks were like no I don't want to be on banks were like no I don't want to be on banks were like no I don't want to be on the same physical computer as my the same physical computer as my the same physical computer as my competitor because bad stuff could competitor because bad stuff could competitor because bad stuff could happen the idea that that that we would happen the idea that that that we would happen the idea that that that we would all live in an apartment like I don't all live in an apartment like I don't all live in an apartment like I don't want to hear my neighbors I don't want want to hear my neighbors I don't want want to hear my neighbors I don't want to hear the people above me or below me to hear the people above me or below me to hear the people above me or below me how did we get past that and are we how did we get past that and are we how did we get past that and are we still bumping up against people who still bumping up against people who still bumping up against people who don't like that idea so you bring up don't like that idea so you bring up don't like that idea so you bring up another technology that empowered that another technology that empowered that another technology that empowered that led to Cloud that cloud is built on top led to Cloud that cloud is built on top led to Cloud that cloud is built on top of and that's virtualization of and that's virtualization of and that's virtualization virtualization and compute virtualization and compute virtualization and compute virtualization and networks the ability virtualization and networks the ability virtualization and networks the ability to segregate people in a in a safe way to segregate people in a in a safe way to segregate people in a in a safe way in fact uh in the early days of azure I in fact uh in the early days of azure I in fact uh in the early days of azure I wanted to really reinforce the wanted to really reinforce the wanted to really reinforce the difference between Enterprise multi difference between Enterprise multi difference between Enterprise multi tendency and what we had to deliver in tendency and what we had to deliver in tendency and what we had to deliver in Azure and so came up with two terms Azure and so came up with two terms Azure and so came up with two terms Enterprise multi- tendency to represent Enterprise multi- tendency to represent Enterprise multi- tendency to represent the kind of tendency that you that the kind of tendency that you that the kind of tendency that you that companies have in their own self-hosted companies have in their own self-hosted companies have in their own self-hosted infrastructure which is is hey we want infrastructure which is is hey we want infrastructure which is is hey we want scottt your your website's you're you're scottt your your website's you're you're scottt your your website's you're you're dossing uh you know you're causing Noise dossing uh you know you're causing Noise dossing uh you know you're causing Noise by dossing or so much Network traffic by dossing or so much Network traffic by dossing or so much Network traffic that you're basically dossing the apps

that you're basically dossing the apps that you're basically dossing the apps around you why don't you just cool it around you why don't you just cool it around you why don't you just cool it you know denial of service yeah um but you know denial of service yeah um but you know denial of service yeah um but somebody would come and talk to you somebody would come and talk to you somebody would come and talk to you about fixing you know changing your apps about fixing you know changing your apps about fixing you know changing your apps Behavior to not affect the the Behavior to not affect the the Behavior to not affect the the performance of the other apps in the performance of the other apps in the performance of the other apps in the infrastructure Enterprise multi tendency infrastructure Enterprise multi tendency infrastructure Enterprise multi tendency is kind of friendly multi- tendency is kind of friendly multi- tendency is kind of friendly multi- tendency and by the way you won't do something and by the way you won't do something and by the way you won't do something bad like try to Doss everybody because bad like try to Doss everybody because bad like try to Doss everybody because you know you'll get fired and the you know you'll get fired and the you know you'll get fired and the company will take legal action so company will take legal action so company will take legal action so there's these this kind of this friendly there's these this kind of this friendly there's these this kind of this friendly nature and disincentives to do harm nature and disincentives to do harm nature and disincentives to do harm where if you've got a public Cloud where where if you've got a public Cloud where where if you've got a public Cloud where anybody can come in with a credit card anybody can come in with a credit card anybody can come in with a credit card even free trial and they're and they can even free trial and they're and they can even free trial and they're and they can come in with their own motivations like come in with their own motivations like come in with their own motivations like you know what I just want to Doss the you know what I just want to Doss the you know what I just want to Doss the cloud m cloud m cloud m I the term I came up to represent that I the term I came up to represent that I the term I came up to represent that is you've got to assume that your is you've got to assume that your is you've got to assume that your customer is hostile now typically customer is hostile now typically customer is hostile now typically they're not going to be it's going to be they're not going to be it's going to be they're not going to be it's going to be Scott who's just trying to run his Scott who's just trying to run his Scott who's just trying to run his website but somebody could come in and website but somebody could come in and website but somebody could come in and and be hostile they wanted zero trust and be hostile they wanted zero trust and be hostile they wanted zero trust zero trust zero trust yeah so we call it zero trust zero trust yeah so we call it zero trust zero trust yeah so we call it hostile multi-tenancy for what we've got hostile multi-tenancy for what we've got hostile multi-tenancy for what we've got in Azure and that reinforces the fact of in Azure and that reinforces the fact of in Azure and that reinforces the fact of I need to be defensive I need to I need to be defensive I need to I need to be defensive I need to anticipate somebody wanting to do bad anticipate somebody wanting to do bad anticipate somebody wanting to do bad things things things virtualization is is a way we believe is virtualization is is a way we believe is virtualization is is a way we believe is strong enough given there's a small strong enough given there's a small strong enough given there's a small what's called trusted Computing base what's called trusted Computing base what's called trusted Computing base around a hypervisor and the supporting around a hypervisor and the supporting around a hypervisor and the supporting software to isolate compute in a safe software to isolate compute in a safe software to isolate compute in a safe way we treat it as a security boundary

way we treat it as a security boundary way we treat it as a security boundary there's very few vulnerabilities when there's very few vulnerabilities when there's very few vulnerabilities when there are we can patch them very quickly there are we can patch them very quickly there are we can patch them very quickly and this is the same you know uh and this is the same you know uh and this is the same you know uh assumption that all public clouds are assumption that all public clouds are assumption that all public clouds are built on top of really it's built on top of really it's built on top of really it's virtualization and then and then we also virtualization and then and then we also virtualization and then and then we also virtualize the network as well instead virtualize the network as well instead virtualize the network as well instead of having physical networks and ports of having physical networks and ports of having physical networks and ports it's all virtualized yeah that I think it's all virtualized yeah that I think it's all virtualized yeah that I think is uh you know for amongst Cloud people is uh you know for amongst Cloud people is uh you know for amongst Cloud people they get that that's amazing but softwar they get that that's amazing but softwar they get that that's amazing but softwar defined defined defined networking is the thing that is networking is the thing that is networking is the thing that is underappreciated the idea that we think underappreciated the idea that we think underappreciated the idea that we think about ports and nicks and stuff like about ports and nicks and stuff like about ports and nicks and stuff like that but they don't exist yeah is even that but they don't exist yeah is even that but they don't exist yeah is even to me it's crazy cuz I've rewired my to me it's crazy cuz I've rewired my to me it's crazy cuz I've rewired my whole house and we've talked about how whole house and we've talked about how whole house and we've talked about how you know you had a GU wire your house you know you had a GU wire your house you know you had a GU wire your house and I wired it all myself and I know and I wired it all myself and I know and I wired it all myself and I know where everything is but like I probably where everything is but like I probably where everything is but like I probably could have just come up with a software could have just come up with a software could have just come up with a software to find networking solution for this uh to find networking solution for this uh to find networking solution for this uh I don't I can't even visualize it how it I don't I can't even visualize it how it I don't I can't even visualize it how it would how it looks in in Azure yeah well would how it looks in in Azure yeah well would how it looks in in Azure yeah well it's I mean it's going to what you were it's I mean it's going to what you were it's I mean it's going to what you were saying everything is saying everything is saying everything is virtualized there's physical resources virtualized there's physical resources virtualized there's physical resources underneath everything at some point you underneath everything at some point you underneath everything at some point you know it's an illusion yeah there is a know it's an illusion yeah there is a know it's an illusion yeah there is a physical wire and there are physical physical wire and there are physical physical wire and there are physical Nicks so you were talking about the Nicks so you were talking about the Nicks so you were talking about the Costco and how to we place things we've Costco and how to we place things we've Costco and how to we place things we've got a very sophisticated what's called got a very sophisticated what's called got a very sophisticated what's called resource resource resource allocator that goes and when you deploy allocator that goes and when you deploy allocator that goes and when you deploy a VM figures out given this pool of a VM figures out given this pool of a VM figures out given this pool of servers where's the ideal place to put servers where's the ideal place to put servers where's the ideal place to put that VM and it ideal means well first of that VM and it ideal means well first of that VM and it ideal means well first of all there's hard constraints like we you

all there's hard constraints like we you all there's hard constraints like we you said you want this size of VM you said said you want this size of VM you said said you want this size of VM you said you want this much Network or whatever you want this much Network or whatever you want this much Network or whatever other characteristics you wanted got to other characteristics you wanted got to other characteristics you wanted got to satisfy those first satisfy those first satisfy those first secondary constraints we want to make secondary constraints we want to make secondary constraints we want to make sure that that um there's we not sure that that um there's we not sure that that um there's we not fragmenting the server capacity if you fragmenting the server capacity if you fragmenting the server capacity if you allocate a 1/4 size VM we want to put it allocate a 1/4 size VM we want to put it allocate a 1/4 size VM we want to put it on another server that already has 1/4 on another server that already has 1/4 on another server that already has 1/4 size VMS on it because if if we place it size VMS on it because if if we place it size VMS on it because if if we place it in an empty server that means a fullsize in an empty server that means a fullsize in an empty server that means a fullsize VM full server size VM can't land on VM full server size VM can't land on VM full server size VM can't land on that server so we need and we want to that server so we need and we want to that server so we need and we want to keep full you know servers empty as much keep full you know servers empty as much keep full you know servers empty as much as possible so that we can satisfy as possible so that we can satisfy as possible so that we can satisfy somebody's deploying a fullsize VM that somebody's deploying a fullsize VM that somebody's deploying a fullsize VM that allocator is actually incredibly allocator is actually incredibly allocator is actually incredibly sophisticated and we and I'm a co-author sophisticated and we and I'm a co-author sophisticated and we and I'm a co-author on a paper on it that's we call the on a paper on it that's we call the on a paper on it that's we call the schedular schedular schedular protein and there's a paper that we protein and there's a paper that we protein and there's a paper that we published a few years ago about the published a few years ago about the published a few years ago about the design of protein at at the time it's design of protein at at the time it's design of protein at at the time it's been evolving since but uh it's it's a been evolving since but uh it's it's a been evolving since but uh it's it's a fun problem because it's and we use fun problem because it's and we use fun problem because it's and we use machine learning now too to predict VM machine learning now too to predict VM machine learning now too to predict VM arrivals so we can say oh it looks like arrivals so we can say oh it looks like arrivals so we can say oh it looks like given you know we anonymously of course given you know we anonymously of course given you know we anonymously of course scottt Scott every day deploys a VM of scottt Scott every day deploys a VM of scottt Scott every day deploys a VM of this size right yeah person guid this size right yeah person guid this size right yeah person guid something you know this this good he something you know this this good he something you know this this good he shows up on Tuesdays they're probably shows up on Tuesdays they're probably shows up on Tuesdays they're probably going to show up next Tuesday and so going to show up next Tuesday and so going to show up next Tuesday and so then we can uh allocate with that in then we can uh allocate with that in then we can uh allocate with that in mind of knowing hey Scott's going to mind of knowing hey Scott's going to mind of knowing hey Scott's going to deploy a 1/4 size VM let's here's the deploy a 1/4 size VM let's here's the deploy a 1/4 size VM let's here's the place where it's can go we also know

place where it's can go we also know place where it's can go we also know spot instances too Umble VMS we try to spot instances too Umble VMS we try to spot instances too Umble VMS we try to make those last a long time so we use make those last a long time so we use make those last a long time so we use that kind of ML and history to know if that kind of ML and history to know if that kind of ML and history to know if we put this spot VM here it's unlikely we put this spot VM here it's unlikely we put this spot VM here it's unlikely that somebody with an on demand VM is that somebody with an on demand VM is that somebody with an on demand VM is going to come and M Force us to kick it going to come and M Force us to kick it going to come and M Force us to kick it off um many years ago I want to say five off um many years ago I want to say five off um many years ago I want to say five maybe even 10 years ago when the cloud maybe even 10 years ago when the cloud maybe even 10 years ago when the cloud was you know like in the middle of the was you know like in the middle of the was you know like in the middle of the cloud like you know like this been 20 cloud like you know like this been 20 cloud like you know like this been 20 years almost 18 years uh I think it was years almost 18 years uh I think it was years almost 18 years uh I think it was uh Aaron crockford somebody from fley uh Aaron crockford somebody from fley uh Aaron crockford somebody from fley who was talking about his relationship who was talking about his relationship who was talking about his relationship with the decision-making process that with the decision-making process that with the decision-making process that they made at the company he was working they made at the company he was working they made at the company he was working at at the time which was to switch from at at the time which was to switch from at at the time which was to switch from spinning rust spinning hard drives to spinning rust spinning hard drives to spinning rust spinning hard drives to ssds during that time when the cloud was ssds during that time when the cloud was ssds during that time when the cloud was moving from hard drives that spin to moving from hard drives that spin to moving from hard drives that spin to hard drives that don't Spin and some hard drives that don't Spin and some hard drives that don't Spin and some person in the audience came up and asked person in the audience came up and asked person in the audience came up and asked him a question and said well you know him a question and said well you know him a question and said well you know ssds are very notoriously unreliable and ssds are very notoriously unreliable and ssds are very notoriously unreliable and they stop they stop working suddenly and they stop they stop working suddenly and they stop they stop working suddenly and you know you'll be there was a time when you know you'll be there was a time when you know you'll be there was a time when an SSD would either work or it would an SSD would either work or it would an SSD would either work or it would stop working and there was no warning at stop working and there was no warning at stop working and there was no warning at least with a spinning rust hard drive least with a spinning rust hard drive least with a spinning rust hard drive you got a little bit of a a warning that you got a little bit of a a warning that you got a little bit of a a warning that it might go sick and uh they said what it might go sick and uh they said what it might go sick and uh they said what do you think about that sir he was do you think about that sir he was do you think about that sir he was basically accusing Aaron he's like wait basically accusing Aaron he's like wait basically accusing Aaron he's like wait what do you this is a huge problem and what do you this is a huge problem and what do you this is a huge problem and he says that's not my problem that is he says that's not my problem that is he says that's not my problem that is the Cloud's problem whether or not 20 is the Cloud's problem whether or not 20 is the Cloud's problem whether or not 20 is a 20% of the ssds fail I don't care and a 20% of the ssds fail I don't care and a 20% of the ssds fail I don't care and that was a moment for me just I just that was a moment for me just I just that was a moment for me just I just like my brain exploded because I was like my brain exploded because I was like my brain exploded because I was like I don't know how much of the cloud like I don't know how much of the cloud like I don't know how much of the cloud could be broken at any time could be 1% could be broken at any time could be 1% could be broken at any time could be 1% could be 40% but that's hidden from me

could be 40% but that's hidden from me could be 40% but that's hidden from me it's like saying I could drive with it's like saying I could drive with it's like saying I could drive with three flat tires do you think about how three flat tires do you think about how three flat tires do you think about how much of the ssds I'm just making that up much of the ssds I'm just making that up much of the ssds I'm just making that up could be down at any moment or V VMS could be down at any moment or V VMS could be down at any moment or V VMS could disappear and the cloud continues could disappear and the cloud continues could disappear and the cloud continues absolutely because uh resource that's absolutely because uh resource that's absolutely because uh resource that's not working is a resource that's not not working is a resource that's not not working is a resource that's not that we've paid for that we're not that we've paid for that we're not that we've paid for that we're not making any money off of so and then making any money off of so and then making any money off of so and then there's also cost to repair too so those there's also cost to repair too so those there's also cost to repair too so those things balanced together to have some things balanced together to have some things balanced together to have some amount of the fleet is always out out of amount of the fleet is always out out of amount of the fleet is always out out of service out in fact we call it ofr out service out in fact we call it ofr out service out in fact we call it ofr out for for for repair and we try to keep that number as repair and we try to keep that number as repair and we try to keep that number as low as possible without the economics of low as possible without the economics of low as possible without the economics of you know keeping standbys and having you know keeping standbys and having you know keeping standbys and having repair too many repair technicians and repair too many repair technicians and repair too many repair technicians and you know that that fine balance there um you know that that fine balance there um you know that that fine balance there um but so it's low single digit it's like but so it's low single digit it's like but so it's low single digit it's like in the low you know 3% or in the low you know 3% or in the low you know 3% or lower is out for repair it's because lower is out for repair it's because lower is out for repair it's because it's a fleet it's like you know if it's a fleet it's like you know if it's a fleet it's like you know if you're a rental agency like Herz or Avis you're a rental agency like Herz or Avis you're a rental agency like Herz or Avis you know yeah some of the cars are going you know yeah some of the cars are going you know yeah some of the cars are going to be broken some of the buses are going to be broken some of the buses are going to be broken some of the buses are going to be broken you got to go and have to be broken you got to go and have to be broken you got to go and have mechanics fixing them and then once they mechanics fixing them and then once they mechanics fixing them and then once they get fixed they just they're back into get fixed they just they're back into get fixed they just they're back into the fleet like the the scheduler knows the fleet like the the scheduler knows the fleet like the the scheduler knows that they're available now picked up and that they're available now picked up and that they're available now picked up and by the way that highlights something by the way that highlights something by the way that highlights something else that people recognize there a key else that people recognize there a key else that people recognize there a key distinction between your own distinction between your own distinction between your own infrastructure hosted infrastructure and infrastructure hosted infrastructure and infrastructure hosted infrastructure and cloud and that's and Cloud native uh cloud and that's and Cloud native uh cloud and that's and Cloud native uh apps and that is the distinction between apps and that is the distinction between apps and that is the distinction between a server that is got your app running on a server that is got your app running on a server that is got your app running on it and it's got a name and you don't

it and it's got a name and you don't it and it's got a name and you don't know how to rebuild it so you like take know how to rebuild it so you like take know how to rebuild it so you like take care of it and those are called pets and care of it and those are called pets and care of it and those are called pets and then there's the fleet of servers or then there's the fleet of servers or then there's the fleet of servers or virtual machines where if one goes sick virtual machines where if one goes sick virtual machines where if one goes sick you can redeploy you can redeploy you can redeploy it and that is what people called cattle it and that is what people called cattle it and that is what people called cattle now I know that there's kind now I know that there's kind now I know that there's kind of cultural sensitivities to that but of cultural sensitivities to that but of cultural sensitivities to that but that's what the people would describe that's what the people would describe that's what the people would describe the the distinct difference between the the distinct difference between the the distinct difference between Enterprise things you love and things Enterprise things you love and things Enterprise things you love and things you don't love as much yeah yeah you don't love as much yeah yeah you don't love as much yeah yeah interesting okay we talked about the the interesting okay we talked about the the interesting okay we talked about the the formation of Red Dog as the project that formation of Red Dog as the project that formation of Red Dog as the project that going to create an internal Cloud going to create an internal Cloud going to create an internal Cloud platform and so the red dog team went platform and so the red dog team went platform and so the red dog team went around and talked to Bing and Hotmail around and talked to Bing and Hotmail around and talked to Bing and Hotmail and to try to figure out how to build and to try to figure out how to build and to try to figure out how to build that platform and one of the ideas they that platform and one of the ideas they that platform and one of the ideas they came up with is we're going to make an came up with is we're going to make an came up with is we're going to make an app model an application model it's app model an application model it's app model an application model it's called cloud services for people to be called cloud services for people to be called cloud services for people to be able to Define their apps that are able to Define their apps that are able to Define their apps that are typically web related apps right web typically web related apps right web typically web related apps right web plus database so Azure Azure SQL plus plus database so Azure Azure SQL plus plus database so Azure Azure SQL plus cloud services plus the network cloud services plus the network cloud services plus the network endpoints and you've got your Cloud at endpoints and you've got your Cloud at endpoints and you've got your Cloud at that point and by the way it's designed that point and by the way it's designed that point and by the way it's designed to be Cloud native you can scale these to be Cloud native you can scale these to be Cloud native you can scale these cloud services out and in and you don't cloud services out and in and you don't cloud services out and in and you don't have to manage the servers you just give have to manage the servers you just give have to manage the servers you just give the code the cloud services code and we the code the cloud services code and we the code the cloud services code and we deploy it and and run it it felt like deploy it and and run it it felt like deploy it and and run it it felt like heavy containers to me it was Heavy heavy containers to me it was Heavy heavy containers to me it was Heavy containers containers didn't exist so we containers containers didn't exist so we containers containers didn't exist so we made really heavy ones yeah and people made really heavy ones yeah and people made really heavy ones yeah and people so the term to describe this model where so the term to describe this model where so the term to describe this model where you just to give the code and the you just to give the code and the you just to give the code and the infrastructure taken care of for is infrastructure taken care of for is infrastructure taken care of for is platform as a service or pass so AZ

platform as a service or pass so AZ platform as a service or pass so AZ Azure was born as pass not just pass but Azure was born as pass not just pass but Azure was born as pass not just pass but Windows only p and so when it was Windows only p and so when it was Windows only p and so when it was announced at the PDC in 2008 by Ray Azie announced at the PDC in 2008 by Ray Azie announced at the PDC in 2008 by Ray Azie was announced as Windows Azure so when I was announced as Windows Azure so when I was announced as Windows Azure so when I joined in joined in joined in 2010 a few months after the commercial 2010 a few months after the commercial 2010 a few months after the commercial launch in February of that year it was launch in February of that year it was launch in February of that year it was called Windows Azure and we had cloud called Windows Azure and we had cloud called Windows Azure and we had cloud services windows-based and this is kind of interesting because and this is kind of interesting because when I showed up the first day the when I showed up the first day the when I showed up the first day the person the the engineer that ran the app person the the engineer that ran the app person the the engineer that ran the app platform team he's like hey he like he's platform team he's like hey he like he's platform team he's like hey he like he's one of those people that likes to go for one of those people that likes to go for one of those people that likes to go for walks in your one-on-one he's like let's walks in your one-on-one he's like let's walks in your one-on-one he's like let's go for a walk he takes me on this walk go for a walk he takes me on this walk go for a walk he takes me on this walk and he's like so here's the deal there's and he's like so here's the deal there's and he's like so here's the deal there's a raging debate should we do a raging debate should we do a raging debate should we do infrastructure as a infrastructure as a infrastructure as a service IAS and what IAS is is give give service IAS and what IAS is is give give service IAS and what IAS is is give give the customer a virtual machine let them the customer a virtual machine let them the customer a virtual machine let them deploy the software onto deploy the software onto deploy the software onto it and the benefit of that is you can it and the benefit of that is you can it and the benefit of that is you can lift and shift your existing software lift and shift your existing software lift and shift your existing software from your on premise to Center from your on premise to Center from your on premise to Center infrastructure into the virtual machines infrastructure into the virtual machines infrastructure into the virtual machines in a cloud if that's got the right in a cloud if that's got the right in a cloud if that's got the right capabilities making it really easy to capabilities making it really easy to capabilities making it really easy to move into into a cloud whereas Pas like move into into a cloud whereas Pas like move into into a cloud whereas Pas like azure's cloud services required you to azure's cloud services required you to azure's cloud services required you to rewrite your app to work within its rewrite your app to work within its rewrite your app to work within its constraints and so the debate that I constraints and so the debate that I constraints and so the debate that I showed up for was should we do IAS and showed up for was should we do IAS and showed up for was should we do IAS and there was a contingent of people that there was a contingent of people that there was a contingent of people that were very much like P is the future like were very much like P is the future like were very much like P is the future like we we shouldn't waste our time on the we we shouldn't waste our time on the we we shouldn't waste our time on the past and so this engineer was you know

past and so this engineer was you know past and so this engineer was you know looking to he very much believed that looking to he very much believed that looking to he very much believed that Azure needed to do iaz and was looking Azure needed to do iaz and was looking Azure needed to do iaz and was looking for people to yeah people to recruit for people to yeah people to recruit for people to yeah people to recruit help push it so I shut up and I'm like I help push it so I shut up and I'm like I help push it so I shut up and I'm like I can see both sides I see p as the future can see both sides I see p as the future can see both sides I see p as the future I also see IAS as a place to what we I also see IAS as a place to what we I also see IAS as a place to what we call meeting customers where they're at call meeting customers where they're at call meeting customers where they're at this debate lasted a while and then the this debate lasted a while and then the this debate lasted a while and then the head of Microsoft sales actually had a head of Microsoft sales actually had a head of Microsoft sales actually had a meeting with amitab crava who was meeting with amitab crava who was meeting with amitab crava who was running Azure at the time like in 2011 running Azure at the time like in 2011 running Azure at the time like in 2011 so about a year after I joined and he's so about a year after I joined and he's so about a year after I joined and he's like look you're I've got you know I'm like look you're I've got you know I'm like look you're I've got you know I'm being told to sell Windows Azure I can't being told to sell Windows Azure I can't being told to sell Windows Azure I can't sell sell sell because customers want IAS and you're because customers want IAS and you're because customers want IAS and you're not giving me IAS so unless you give me not giving me IAS so unless you give me not giving me IAS so unless you give me IAS and promise me IAS I'm going to stop IAS and promise me IAS I'm going to stop IAS and promise me IAS I'm going to stop selling this and so amitab came to me selling this and so amitab came to me selling this and so amitab came to me and and and said hey what do we what would it take said hey what do we what would it take said hey what do we what would it take for us to do IIs and so I sat down with for us to do IIs and so I sat down with for us to do IIs and so I sat down with Corey Sanders who was the program Corey Sanders who was the program Corey Sanders who was the program manager for Azure uh for the for compute manager for Azure uh for the for compute manager for Azure uh for the for compute at the time and uh we wrote a paper like at the time and uh we wrote a paper like at the time and uh we wrote a paper like here's what we need to do to build IAS here's what we need to do to build IAS here's what we need to do to build IAS in azure and so we started building that in azure and so we started building that in azure and so we started building that then the paper nitab is like yep let's then the paper nitab is like yep let's then the paper nitab is like yep let's do this and uh a year later we launched do this and uh a year later we launched do this and uh a year later we launched IAS and I remember that date very IAS and I remember that date very IAS and I remember that date very Faithfully because we turned on a for Faithfully because we turned on a for Faithfully because we turned on a for the public a year later we all went into the public a year later we all went into the public a year later we all went into one of the engineers offices because we one of the engineers offices because we one of the engineers offices because we storage and the disc drives being served storage and the disc drives being served storage and the disc drives being served off of Storage for these VMS we were off of Storage for these VMS we were off of Storage for these VMS we were worried about because we didn't have

worried about because we didn't have worried about because we didn't have real discs for our P for cloud services real discs for our P for cloud services real discs for our P for cloud services we had to have discs for we had to have discs for we had to have discs for IAS is can will storage hold up to the IAS is can will storage hold up to the IAS is can will storage hold up to the load of people starting to use this load of people starting to use this load of people starting to use this thing and so we're watch sitting in the thing and so we're watch sitting in the thing and so we're watch sitting in the office watching a line of storage iops office watching a line of storage iops office watching a line of storage iops on the back end looking and every on the back end looking and every on the back end looking and every nervously to see if if Windows Azure was nervously to see if if Windows Azure was nervously to see if if Windows Azure was going to fail because we didn't have going to fail because we didn't have going to fail because we didn't have provision enough capacity and storage to provision enough capacity and storage to provision enough capacity and storage to handle the load and fortunately it it handle the load and fortunately it it handle the load and fortunately it it didn't and but that was a a kind of a didn't and but that was a a kind of a didn't and but that was a a kind of a cool cool cool moment in the uh I remember that you moment in the uh I remember that you moment in the uh I remember that you could just you can still you can go on could just you can still you can go on could just you can still you can go on to dis Management on your Windows to dis Management on your Windows to dis Management on your Windows machine right now go to disk manager say machine right now go to disk manager say machine right now go to disk manager say create create create vhd make a vhd just a virtual hard drive vhd make a vhd just a virtual hard drive vhd make a vhd just a virtual hard drive upload it into Azure storage and mount upload it into Azure storage and mount upload it into Azure storage and mount it and go in and then remote desktop it and go in and then remote desktop it and go in and then remote desktop into a Windows machine yeah attach into a Windows machine yeah attach into a Windows machine yeah attach there's some code from dis to vhd a tool there's some code from dis to vhd a tool there's some code from dis to vhd a tool that I forist internals so I used to use that I forist internals so I used to use that I forist internals so I used to use disc to vhd because it's like okay I'm disc to vhd because it's like okay I'm disc to vhd because it's like okay I'm getting ready to upgrade my machine I'll getting ready to upgrade my machine I'll getting ready to upgrade my machine I'll do a snapshot like a like a mosquito and do a snapshot like a like a mosquito and do a snapshot like a like a mosquito and Amber of my machine I'll snapshot disc Amber of my machine I'll snapshot disc Amber of my machine I'll snapshot disc to vhd and then I'll throw it up in the to vhd and then I'll throw it up in the to vhd and then I'll throw it up in the cloud and then I'll boot up a version cloud and then I'll boot up a version cloud and then I'll boot up a version and then that's the moment when it's and then that's the moment when it's and then that's the moment when it's like the computer doesn't know it like the computer doesn't know it like the computer doesn't know it doesn't know if it's on a physical doesn't know if it's on a physical doesn't know if it's on a physical machine or virtual machine and that for machine or virtual machine and that for machine or virtual machine and that for me was the difference between a cloud me was the difference between a cloud me was the difference between a cloud native app and a non-cloud native app if native app and a non-cloud native app if native app and a non-cloud native app if the computer can be effectively lied to the computer can be effectively lied to the computer can be effectively lied to then then then it's naive it could be on then then then it's naive it could be on then then then it's naive it could be on a physical machine it could be on the a physical machine it could be on the a physical machine it could be on the cloud and that's lift and shift it's

cloud and that's lift and shift it's cloud and that's lift and shift it's it's a naive way to move things up in it's a naive way to move things up in it's a naive way to move things up in the cloud but then if the computer is the cloud but then if the computer is the cloud but then if the computer is aware that it's in the cloud and meaning aware that it's in the cloud and meaning aware that it's in the cloud and meaning the software is aware it's in the cloud the software is aware it's in the cloud the software is aware it's in the cloud if your app is aware it's in the cloud if your app is aware it's in the cloud if your app is aware it's in the cloud then it can participate in Cloud things then it can participate in Cloud things then it can participate in Cloud things it can call Cloud apis it can scale it can call Cloud apis it can scale it can call Cloud apis it can scale better and a cloud native app knows it's better and a cloud native app knows it's better and a cloud native app knows it's in the cloud but an iaz one yeah exactly in the cloud but an iaz one yeah exactly in the cloud but an iaz one yeah exactly I don't care yeah that's a good way of I don't care yeah that's a good way of I don't care yeah that's a good way of putting it very cool here's another you putting it very cool here's another you putting it very cool here's another you know big moments in azure's history so know big moments in azure's history so know big moments in azure's history so that one yeah what you got so the the that one yeah what you got so the the that one yeah what you got so the the creation of azure the launch of azure creation of azure the launch of azure creation of azure the launch of azure the the introduction of iaz in 12 the the introduction of iaz in 12 the the introduction of iaz in 12 another big moment was when when we another big moment was when when we another big moment was when when we introduced iaz by the way it was kind of introduced iaz by the way it was kind of introduced iaz by the way it was kind of a combination of moments because it was a combination of moments because it was a combination of moments because it was Azure embracing iaz which actually Azure embracing iaz which actually Azure embracing iaz which actually started to cause the business to really started to cause the business to really started to cause the business to really scale but the other one was we when we scale but the other one was we when we scale but the other one was we when we introduced iaz we introduced both introduced iaz we introduced both introduced iaz we introduced both windows and Linux VMS windows and Linux VMS windows and Linux VMS support and this was kind of one of support and this was kind of one of support and this was kind of one of those pigs fly moments uh in Microsoft's those pigs fly moments uh in Microsoft's those pigs fly moments uh in Microsoft's history of what you're supporting history of what you're supporting history of what you're supporting Linux in your cloud and so this Linux in your cloud and so this Linux in your cloud and so this LED um to Microsoft really embracing LED um to Microsoft really embracing LED um to Microsoft really embracing Linux and by extension open source and Linux and by extension open source and Linux and by extension open source and Sacha famously at a event in New York Sacha famously at a event in New York Sacha famously at a event in New York that I happen to be that I happen to be that I happen to be attending posting a Microsoft loves attending posting a Microsoft loves attending posting a Microsoft loves Linux slide I remember that Microsoft Linux slide I remember that Microsoft Linux slide I remember that Microsoft heart Linux with penguin Microsoft heart Linux with penguin Microsoft heart Linux with penguin Microsoft penguin um and that was just a wow

penguin um and that was just a wow penguin um and that was just a wow moment um and and in one of moment um and and in one of moment um and and in one of those took a long time I mean took years those took a long time I mean took years those took a long time I mean took years and years and years and I think we're and years and years and I think we're and years and years and I think we're finally there now where people were like finally there now where people were like finally there now where people were like oh you're you don't really believe it no oh you're you don't really believe it no oh you're you don't really believe it no it's not true or they just didn't even it's not true or they just didn't even it's not true or they just didn't even know it and it was the the old you know know it and it was the the old you know know it and it was the the old you know Microsoft's just that the Azure is just Microsoft's just that the Azure is just Microsoft's just that the Azure is just the windows.net cloud and you guys don't the windows.net cloud and you guys don't the windows.net cloud and you guys don't knew like Linux or use Linux and and knew like Linux or use Linux and and knew like Linux or use Linux and and actually we've come so far from that to actually we've come so far from that to actually we've come so far from that to the point where we've got our own Linux the point where we've got our own Linux the point where we've got our own Linux drro Azure Linux where we've got our drro Azure Linux where we've got our drro Azure Linux where we've got our Azure boost offload card that runs Azure Azure boost offload card that runs Azure Azure boost offload card that runs Azure Linux we've got our Network switches Linux we've got our Network switches Linux we've got our Network switches running Sonic on Azure Linux so we've running Sonic on Azure Linux so we've running Sonic on Azure Linux so we've really just embraced open source really really just embraced open source really really just embraced open source really um and and leverag it a lot in the um and and leverag it a lot in the um and and leverag it a lot in the building of our cloud and I think that building of our cloud and I think that building of our cloud and I think that it also showcases that we decided to be it also showcases that we decided to be it also showcases that we decided to be a utility and sell four Loops in the a utility and sell four Loops in the a utility and sell four Loops in the cloud we don't care what language we cloud we don't care what language we cloud we don't care what language we don't care what operating system we you don't care what operating system we you don't care what operating system we you you got a for Loop we'll sell it we'll you got a for Loop we'll sell it we'll you got a for Loop we'll sell it we'll make in the cloud serverless iaz pas make in the cloud serverless iaz pas make in the cloud serverless iaz pas wherever your for Loop runs we'll run it wherever your for Loop runs we'll run it wherever your for Loop runs we'll run it we're non- denominational yeah and and we're non- denominational yeah and and we're non- denominational yeah and and now I think that there's more Linux in now I think that there's more Linux in now I think that there's more Linux in the cloud than I think it's something the cloud than I think it's something the cloud than I think it's something there's more virtual machines and Azure there's more virtual machines and Azure there's more virtual machines and Azure that are Linux than Windows yeah and that are Linux than Windows yeah and that are Linux than Windows yeah and that's fine because we're providing that that's fine because we're providing that that's fine because we're providing that utility so popping off the stack to the utility so popping off the stack to the utility so popping off the stack to the beginning how much should a young person beginning how much should a young person beginning how much should a young person know about this stuff if you're an early know about this stuff if you're an early know about this stuff if you're an early in career person if you're five years in career person if you're five years in career person if you're five years into your career and you're used to into your career and you're used to into your career and you're used to going to the command line and you say

going to the command line and you say going to the command line and you say scale out and then you go and have lunch scale out and then you go and have lunch scale out and then you go and have lunch and you come back and now there's a a and you come back and now there's a a and you come back and now there's a a thousand VMS is there value in visiting thousand VMS is there value in visiting thousand VMS is there value in visiting a cloud and watching a video about what a cloud and watching a video about what a cloud and watching a video about what goes on there like I always talk about goes on there like I always talk about goes on there like I always talk about driving stick shift so when I teach driving stick shift so when I teach driving stick shift so when I teach Cloud at the at the local high school or Cloud at the at the local high school or Cloud at the at the local high school or when I teach it at local University I when I teach it at local University I when I teach it at local University I bring my kubernetes cluster and I talk bring my kubernetes cluster and I talk bring my kubernetes cluster and I talk about scaling and I say that that's the about scaling and I say that that's the about scaling and I say that that's the cloud imagine that except bigger and cloud imagine that except bigger and cloud imagine that except bigger and then I pull a network wire on one of then I pull a network wire on one of then I pull a network wire on one of them and watch the others scale like them and watch the others scale like them and watch the others scale like that kind of like fundamental stuff I that kind of like fundamental stuff I that kind of like fundamental stuff I think that has value historical context think that has value historical context think that has value historical context but I don't think it always will at some but I don't think it always will at some but I don't think it always will at some point everything will be serverless and point everything will be serverless and point everything will be serverless and people won't think about that but should people won't think about that but should people won't think about that but should we know actually I don't know um I think we know actually I don't know um I think we know actually I don't know um I think it's if you want to under be a full it's if you want to under be a full it's if you want to under be a full systems person it's helpful to know but systems person it's helpful to know but systems person it's helpful to know but I think a lot of people might not know I think a lot of people might not know I think a lot of people might not know so and the analogy I draw here is in so and the analogy I draw here is in so and the analogy I draw here is in programming programming programming languages with garbage collect stop languages with garbage collect stop languages with garbage collect stop doing email garbage doing email garbage doing email garbage collect I'll wait till you're collect I'll wait till you're collect I'll wait till you're done I'm telling this guy I'm late for a done I'm telling this guy I'm late for a done I'm telling this guy I'm late for a meeting we're gonna this Show's gonna go meeting we're gonna this Show's gonna go meeting we're gonna this Show's gonna go late so I'm telling the guy I'm gonna be late so I'm telling the guy I'm gonna be late so I'm telling the guy I'm gonna be late I apologize let me let me steeple late I apologize let me let me steeple late I apologize let me let me steeple my fingers and show direct interest in my fingers and show direct interest in my fingers and show direct interest in the story of azure as we get to the end the story of azure as we get to the end the story of azure as we get to the end of our podcast uh so as garbage of our podcast uh so as garbage of our podcast uh so as garbage collected languages showed collected languages showed collected languages showed up people didn't have to worry about up people didn't have to worry about up people didn't have to worry about memory management and they didn't have memory management and they didn't have memory management and they didn't have to worry about threading and they just to worry about threading and they just to worry about threading and they just knew here's my code and just just going

knew here's my code and just just going knew here's my code and just just going to do to do to do stuff and question is knowing about stuff and question is knowing about stuff and question is knowing about virtual memory and Page tables is it virtual memory and Page tables is it virtual memory and Page tables is it necessary knowing about necessary knowing about necessary knowing about threading it depends it depends on the threading it depends it depends on the threading it depends it depends on the day it depends on the business problem day it depends on the business problem day it depends on the business problem but a lot of people I in fact I would but a lot of people I in fact I would but a lot of people I in fact I would say probably most Enterprise app say probably most Enterprise app say probably most Enterprise app developers don't know th those things developers don't know th those things developers don't know th those things and they're and they're and they're successful with the skills they've got successful with the skills they've got successful with the skills they've got so then are we do am I being Doom and so then are we do am I being Doom and so then are we do am I being Doom and Gloom when I say like well what Gloom when I say like well what Gloom when I say like well what percentage of developers should know percentage of developers should know percentage of developers should know about this stuff right like we have only about this stuff right like we have only about this stuff right like we have only so many plumbers available we have only so many plumbers available we have only so many plumbers available we have only so many electricians available we have so many electricians available we have so many electricians available we have lots of yeah home Architects but there's lots of yeah home Architects but there's lots of yeah home Architects but there's only so many people that know how to only so many people that know how to only so many people that know how to pull wire I think that that's just the pull wire I think that that's just the pull wire I think that that's just the way that the technology evolves is as way that the technology evolves is as way that the technology evolves is as the layers of abstraction get built the the layers of abstraction get built the the layers of abstraction get built the people at the that are down in the guts people at the that are down in the guts people at the that are down in the guts you know it becomes very specialized you you know it becomes very specialized you you know it becomes very specialized you know I'll give you the other example of know I'll give you the other example of know I'll give you the other example of how I saw this happen Windows NT uh how I saw this happen Windows NT uh how I saw this happen Windows NT uh inside Windows NT the book that came out inside Windows NT the book that came out inside Windows NT the book that came out in in in 1996 describing the internals of Windows 1996 describing the internals of Windows 1996 describing the internals of Windows and it was very high level description and it was very high level description and it was very high level description that book sold like 250,000 that book sold like 250,000 that book sold like 250,000 copies because that was it like that was copies because that was it like that was copies because that was it like that was the frontier of Technology was the the frontier of Technology was the the frontier of Technology was the operating system and its operating system and its operating system and its apis you know then came uh inside apis you know then came uh inside apis you know then came uh inside Windows NT second edition inside Windows Windows NT second edition inside Windows Windows NT second edition inside Windows 2000 that I joined uh Dave Solomon the 2000 that I joined uh Dave Solomon the 2000 that I joined uh Dave Solomon the co-author and for the covered windows co-author and for the covered windows co-author and for the covered windows 2000 that book sold 75,000

2000 that book sold 75,000 2000 that book sold 75,000 copies uh the next Edition sold you know copies uh the next Edition sold you know copies uh the next Edition sold you know 50,000 copies the next edition's 40,000 50,000 copies the next edition's 40,000 50,000 copies the next edition's 40,000 so it's like and you see what where this so it's like and you see what where this so it's like and you see what where this is going it's people don't need to know is going it's people don't need to know is going it's people don't need to know that stuff anymore but not to you know that stuff anymore but not to you know that stuff anymore but not to you know there's some factor of the stuff's there's some factor of the stuff's there's some factor of the stuff's available on the web too but most people available on the web too but most people available on the web too but most people don't need to know that stuff and so don't need to know that stuff and so don't need to know that stuff and so because everybody's there's so much because everybody's there's so much because everybody's there's so much surface area even at the abstraction surface area even at the abstraction surface area even at the abstraction layers is above that that people need to layers is above that that people need to layers is above that that people need to worry about and learn that they don't worry about and learn that they don't worry about and learn that they don't have time or need to go down into the have time or need to go down into the have time or need to go down into the lower layers lay but there are the right lower layers lay but there are the right lower layers lay but there are the right number of people know these things to number of people know these things to number of people know these things to keep it running and keep it building and keep it running and keep it building and keep it running and keep it building and going forward so that let me ask you going forward so that let me ask you going forward so that let me ask you this then to close because I think that this then to close because I think that this then to close because I think that the advice that I give people is the advice that I give people is the advice that I give people is whatever level that you operate at if whatever level that you operate at if whatever level that you operate at if you're Power Platform or your C or your you're Power Platform or your C or your you're Power Platform or your C or your C just pick one layer below your comfort C just pick one layer below your comfort C just pick one layer below your comfort zone and explore that area it's kind of zone and explore that area it's kind of zone and explore that area it's kind of Echoes what we were talking about when Echoes what we were talking about when Echoes what we were talking about when came to giving technical talks or is go came to giving technical talks or is go came to giving technical talks or is go one level below or just knowing inter one level below or just knowing inter one level below or just knowing inter standing technology you know one level standing technology you know one level standing technology you know one level below where you are at because that'll below where you are at because that'll below where you are at because that'll make you that'll give you powers that make you that'll give you powers that make you that'll give you powers that other people don't have which arguably other people don't have which arguably other people don't have which arguably we just did with this episode yeah call we just did with this episode yeah call we just did with this episode yeah call back back back wow that's cool um this is one of those wow that's cool um this is one of those wow that's cool um this is one of those things where you know I was listening to things where you know I was listening to things where you know I was listening to this podcast called acquired that Damen this podcast called acquired that Damen this podcast called acquired that Damen Edwards and David fower told me to Edwards and David fower told me to Edwards and David fower told me to listen to there's like a two-part two listen to there's like a two-part two listen to there's like a two-part two three-hour part podcast about the three-hour part podcast about the three-hour part podcast about the history of Microsoft it's a six hour history of Microsoft it's a six hour history of Microsoft it's a six hour long podcast of like from Bill Gates is

long podcast of like from Bill Gates is long podcast of like from Bill Gates is 12 years old and like his dad was a 12 years old and like his dad was a 12 years old and like his dad was a lawyer and and all the way up until you lawyer and and all the way up until you lawyer and and all the way up until you know and they were selling basic and know and they were selling basic and know and they were selling basic and like the history of Microsoft six hour like the history of Microsoft six hour like the history of Microsoft six hour long podcast um I would listen to one long podcast um I would listen to one long podcast um I would listen to one about by the way there's another um so about by the way there's another um so about by the way there's another um so Dave Cutler interview with Dave Cutler Dave Cutler interview with Dave Cutler Dave Cutler interview with Dave Cutler that's like three hours long too okay that's like three hours long too okay that's like three hours long too okay then we need to find that and link to it then we need to find that and link to it then we need to find that and link to it in the show notes yeah and I think that in the show notes yeah and I think that in the show notes yeah and I think that makes people like historical cont makes people like historical cont makes people like historical cont matters what what were the factors matters what what were the factors matters what what were the factors happening in the marketplace that caused happening in the marketplace that caused happening in the marketplace that caused the perfect moment for the cloud to the perfect moment for the cloud to the perfect moment for the cloud to happen and someone at Microsoft was like happen and someone at Microsoft was like happen and someone at Microsoft was like all in let's go this is the thing we're all in let's go this is the thing we're all in let's go this is the thing we're doing this thing doing this thing doing this thing now I remember when Sai was just like now I remember when Sai was just like now I remember when Sai was just like the cloud guy yeah we go to meetings the cloud guy yeah we go to meetings the cloud guy yeah we go to meetings it's like yeah he's Cloud guy he ran a it's like yeah he's Cloud guy he ran a it's like yeah he's Cloud guy he ran a he ran Azure for until he became c yeah he ran Azure for until he became c yeah he ran Azure for until he became c yeah he ran Azure that's so cool ah okay I'm just wh was I'm like whisp ah okay I'm just wh was I'm like whisp wistfully thinking about history and wistfully thinking about history and wistfully thinking about history and being there before like that was the being there before like that was the being there before like that was the cloud man it it wasn't that long ago and cloud man it it wasn't that long ago and cloud man it it wasn't that long ago and it cut the world in half and now there's it cut the world in half and now there's it cut the world in half and now there's before the cloud was a thing and after before the cloud was a thing and after before the cloud was a thing and after the cloud is a the cloud is a the cloud is a thing I hope it's good I hope it's a thing I hope it's good I hope it's a thing I hope it's good I hope it's a good good good thing all right I think that's a I think thing all right I think that's a I think thing all right I think that's a I think that's a show as well you feel good that's a show as well you feel good that's a show as well you feel good about that feel do I feel good okay all about that feel do I feel good okay all about that feel do I feel good okay all right friends if you want more things right friends if you want more things right friends if you want more things for Market Scott to learn uh please for Market Scott to learn uh please for Market Scott to learn uh please again the comments and leave reviews for again the comments and leave reviews for again the comments and leave reviews for us it cannot be overstated that you us it cannot be overstated that you us it cannot be overstated that you leaving a review on iTunes or Spotify or

leaving a review on iTunes or Spotify or leaving a review on iTunes or Spotify or wherever helps us grow the show uh we wherever helps us grow the show uh we wherever helps us grow the show uh we enjoy doing this we're not getting paid enjoy doing this we're not getting paid enjoy doing this we're not getting paid for doing this we just think that this for doing this we just think that this for doing this we just think that this is fun because we think learning is is fun because we think learning is is fun because we think learning is where it's at and we hope that you learn where it's at and we hope that you learn where it's at and we hope that you learn with us but we we want to keep doing the with us but we we want to keep doing the with us but we we want to keep doing the show and in order to do that we need to show and in order to do that we need to show and in order to do that we need to grow the audience so anything you can do grow the audience so anything you can do grow the audience so anything you can do to share uh Scott and Mark SC learn to to share uh Scott and Mark SC learn to to share uh Scott and Mark SC learn to friends and family yeah friends and friends and family yeah friends and friends and family yeah friends and family yeah text your mom tell Uncle family yeah text your mom tell Uncle family yeah text your mom tell Uncle friend friend friend that they can learn about the cloud you that they can learn about the cloud you that they can learn about the cloud you know episode yeah all right we'll see you again next yeah all right we'll see you again next week everybody bye week everybody bye week everybody bye [Music]