Coding while Blind with Dominic St Pierre

hi I'm Scott Hanselman this is another hi I'm Scott Hanselman this is another episode of Hansel minutes today I'm episode of Hansel minutes today I'm episode of Hansel minutes today I'm chatting with Dominic samier he is the chatting with Dominic samier he is the chatting with Dominic samier he is the host of The Go podcast has been writing host of The Go podcast has been writing host of The Go podcast has been writing go daily since go daily since go daily since 2014 he is joining me from uh Quebec in 2014 he is joining me from uh Quebec in 2014 he is joining me from uh Quebec in Canada how are you sir I'm very good Canada how are you sir I'm very good Canada how are you sir I'm very good thank you thanks for hanging out uh thank you thanks for hanging out uh thank you thanks for hanging out uh interestingly we are recording this show interestingly we are recording this show interestingly we are recording this show in a different tool I usually use uh in a different tool I usually use uh in a different tool I usually use uh another tool we won't mention its name another tool we won't mention its name another tool we won't mention its name but today we're using one called but today we're using one called but today we're using one called remotely. FM and we're starting about 20 remotely. FM and we're starting about 20 remotely. FM and we're starting about 20 minutes late why are we starting 20 minutes late why are we starting 20 minutes late why are we starting 20 minutes late D well it was pretty minutes late D well it was pretty minutes late D well it was pretty difficult I don't even know why exactly difficult I don't even know why exactly difficult I don't even know why exactly but yeah my mic and camera the was not but yeah my mic and camera the was not but yeah my mic and camera the was not working with the other tool and I don't working with the other tool and I don't working with the other tool and I don't understand why I thought it was the understand why I thought it was the understand why I thought it was the screen reader at first uh app that that screen reader at first uh app that that screen reader at first uh app that that it was not so I don't know we don't know it was not so I don't know we don't know it was not so I don't know we don't know but for context you're blind developer but for context you're blind developer but for context you're blind developer and you are using a screen reader and and you are using a screen reader and and you are using a screen reader and accessibility tools to uh attach to this accessibility tools to uh attach to this accessibility tools to uh attach to this tool and I sent you a link to a tool to tool and I sent you a link to a tool to tool and I sent you a link to a tool to join my podcast without me necessarily join my podcast without me necessarily join my podcast without me necessarily looking at that tool completely and looking at that tool completely and looking at that tool completely and seeing if it was fully accessible and seeing if it was fully accessible and seeing if it was fully accessible and you know we don't know what went wrong you know we don't know what went wrong you know we don't know what went wrong we don't have the time to debug it but we don't have the time to debug it but we don't have the time to debug it but it was a challenging moment there for us it was a challenging moment there for us it was a challenging moment there for us to try to figure out how are you going to try to figure out how are you going to try to figure out how are you going to join this meeting and that makes me to join this meeting and that makes me to join this meeting and that makes me think about zoom and teams and jitsy and think about zoom and teams and jitsy and think about zoom and teams and jitsy and blue jeans and Google meet how often as blue jeans and Google meet how often as blue jeans and Google meet how often as a blind developer are you bumping into a blind developer are you bumping into a blind developer are you bumping into hey meet me over there and then over hey meet me over there and then over hey meet me over there and then over there isn't accessible for you no there isn't accessible for you no there isn't accessible for you no totally and I mean it's it's not just in totally and I mean it's it's not just in totally and I mean it's it's not just in the virtual world as you might imagine

the virtual world as you might imagine the virtual world as you might imagine so so yeah it's a it's a constant uh so so yeah it's a it's a constant uh so so yeah it's a it's a constant uh battle uh that's why I I I I like to to battle uh that's why I I I I like to to battle uh that's why I I I I like to to say you know that I I'm a pretty I I say you know that I I'm a pretty I I say you know that I I'm a pretty I I like things that don't really change like things that don't really change like things that don't really change that's why I like to stay that's why I like to stay that's why I like to stay you know very long at at my companies you know very long at at my companies you know very long at at my companies and whatnot and I like to maintain and whatnot and I like to maintain and whatnot and I like to maintain software if we do a small parallel so I software if we do a small parallel so I software if we do a small parallel so I mean being in in place where I I you mean being in in place where I I you mean being in in place where I I you know I know what's going on and I don't know I know what's going on and I don't know I know what's going on and I don't have bad surprises because I hate to have bad surprises because I hate to have bad surprises because I hate to waste my time like that like like you waste my time like that like like you waste my time like that like like you might imagine yeah there's a there's a might imagine yeah there's a there's a might imagine yeah there's a there's a comfort thing now this is a silly comfort thing now this is a silly comfort thing now this is a silly analogy and maybe it's maybe it's okay analogy and maybe it's maybe it's okay analogy and maybe it's maybe it's okay maybe it's not okay but I I I've talked maybe it's not okay but I I I've talked maybe it's not okay but I I I've talked to you before about how I'm a type 1 to you before about how I'm a type 1 to you before about how I'm a type 1 diabetic and people tease me when I eat diabetic and people tease me when I eat diabetic and people tease me when I eat the same thing uh like I just had Subway the same thing uh like I just had Subway the same thing uh like I just had Subway sandwiches you know brown bread and a sandwiches you know brown bread and a sandwiches you know brown bread and a steak sandwich and uh one time I was steak sandwich and uh one time I was steak sandwich and uh one time I was visiting a foreign country and someone visiting a foreign country and someone visiting a foreign country and someone teased me for having Subway sandwich and teased me for having Subway sandwich and teased me for having Subway sandwich and brown bread and I said well but I know brown bread and I said well but I know brown bread and I said well but I know it and it's I know how much insulin I it and it's I know how much insulin I it and it's I know how much insulin I know how much sugar it has it's reliable know how much sugar it has it's reliable know how much sugar it has it's reliable I can only assume that with any I can only assume that with any I can only assume that with any disability whether it be diabetes or disability whether it be diabetes or disability whether it be diabetes or with blindness that if you are with blindness that if you are with blindness that if you are comfortable in your space you know comfortable in your space you know comfortable in your space you know what's around you it is like an what's around you it is like an what's around you it is like an emotional release it's less effort to emotional release it's less effort to emotional release it's less effort to just exist than new places new stuff just exist than new places new stuff just exist than new places new stuff constantly oh yeah totally I mean this constantly oh yeah totally I mean this constantly oh yeah totally I mean this like you said this is a constant efforts like you said this is a constant efforts like you said this is a constant efforts and the the more things that you can and the the more things that you can and the the more things that you can control that that are not in your way control that that are not in your way control that that are not in your way that you know the the day will just be that you know the the day will just be that you know the the day will just be easier and and you will not uh not be

easier and and you will not uh not be easier and and you will not uh not be completely dead at the end of the day completely dead at the end of the day completely dead at the end of the day because that you know that that's a toll because that you know that that's a toll because that you know that that's a toll on yourself uh at some point because on yourself uh at some point because on yourself uh at some point because yeah it's it's a constant fight and it's yeah it's it's a constant fight and it's yeah it's it's a constant fight and it's not just conferencing tools right uh not just conferencing tools right uh not just conferencing tools right uh it's code as well it's it's anything I it's code as well it's it's anything I it's code as well it's it's anything I mean anything is is a is a battle uh so mean anything is is a is a battle uh so mean anything is is a is a battle uh so so yeah that's why uh sometimes you you so yeah that's why uh sometimes you you so yeah that's why uh sometimes you you you need to uh to moderate yourself you need to uh to moderate yourself you need to uh to moderate yourself because yes you uh I I mean I I I just because yes you uh I I mean I I I just because yes you uh I I mean I I I just just want to do uh to do my my job and just want to do uh to do my my job and just want to do uh to do my my job and you know be productive in what what I'm you know be productive in what what I'm you know be productive in what what I'm I'm doing and if if if I if I fought for I'm doing and if if if I if I fought for I'm doing and if if if I if I fought for three hours on something that you know a three hours on something that you know a three hours on something that you know a a cited person would would would have a cited person would would would have a cited person would would would have done in in t been it's it's it's it's done in in t been it's it's it's it's done in in t been it's it's it's it's hard yeah yeah I'm curious like my wife hard yeah yeah I'm curious like my wife hard yeah yeah I'm curious like my wife was asking me how much diabetes bugs me was asking me how much diabetes bugs me was asking me how much diabetes bugs me every day and it's like 10% 15% on a bad every day and it's like 10% 15% on a bad every day and it's like 10% 15% on a bad day 5% it's just like a it's a like a day 5% it's just like a it's a like a day 5% it's just like a it's a like a rogue process in task manager that's rogue process in task manager that's rogue process in task manager that's taking up too much space now you've been taking up too much space now you've been taking up too much space now you've been you've been blind now how many you've been blind now how many you've been blind now how many years I I'm legally blind since bir but years I I'm legally blind since bir but years I I'm legally blind since bir but I have a degenerative disease so I'm I have a degenerative disease so I'm I have a degenerative disease so I'm yeah I've been using a screen reader yeah I've been using a screen reader yeah I've been using a screen reader let's say for the last three years or let's say for the last three years or let's say for the last three years or three and a half but before that uh you three and a half but before that uh you three and a half but before that uh you know I I was using an an invert know I I was using an an invert know I I was using an an invert inverting color uh in uh in in my uh I inverting color uh in uh in in my uh I inverting color uh in uh in in my uh I was using archu with with I3 actually no was using archu with with I3 actually no was using archu with with I3 actually no mouse for a long time that was great um mouse for a long time that was great um mouse for a long time that was great um so yeah so so for me it was it was it so yeah so so for me it was it was it so yeah so so for me it was it was it was slow so it I I I kind of lived

was slow so it I I I kind of lived was slow so it I I I kind of lived different you know pain during this this different you know pain during this this different you know pain during this this entire entire entire uh you know Journey if you will mhm um uh you know Journey if you will mhm um uh you know Journey if you will mhm um so yes it was it was different different so yes it was it was different different so yes it was it was different different challenges different battles so now I uh challenges different battles so now I uh challenges different battles so now I uh I I do I do have kind of lost my my C I I do I do have kind of lost my my C I I do I do have kind of lost my my C Center Vision if you will and uh that is Center Vision if you will and uh that is Center Vision if you will and uh that is the problem for me so I I was always the problem for me so I I was always the problem for me so I I was always lucky to be to be uh able to have a very lucky to be to be uh able to have a very lucky to be to be uh able to have a very good centered Vision so that helped me a good centered Vision so that helped me a good centered Vision so that helped me a lot with reading so uh so that that is lot with reading so uh so that that is lot with reading so uh so that that is gone now so the screen reader is really gone now so the screen reader is really gone now so the screen reader is really helpful so now that that's changed using helpful so now that that's changed using helpful so now that that's changed using this analogy that I have of like this this analogy that I have of like this this analogy that I have of like this process you can't control that's taking process you can't control that's taking process you can't control that's taking up a percentage of your life how much of up a percentage of your life how much of up a percentage of your life how much of your life and on and I assume it changes your life and on and I assume it changes your life and on and I assume it changes on a day-to-day basis is just blindness on a day-to-day basis is just blindness on a day-to-day basis is just blindness is it 30% and it's just like I can't is it 30% and it's just like I can't is it 30% and it's just like I can't emotionally fully give myself 100% to emotionally fully give myself 100% to emotionally fully give myself 100% to this situation because I am fighting this situation because I am fighting this situation because I am fighting with the screen reader or just blindness with the screen reader or just blindness with the screen reader or just blindness has me sad has me sad has me sad today yes yeah 30% it's it's still today yes yeah 30% it's it's still today yes yeah 30% it's it's still different from one day it's I I would I different from one day it's I I would I different from one day it's I I would I would say it's almost impossible Ju Just would say it's almost impossible Ju Just would say it's almost impossible Ju Just just take two days ago my uh my headset just take two days ago my uh my headset just take two days ago my uh my headset broke my cable broke and and I I had to broke my cable broke and and I I had to broke my cable broke and and I I had to to take a you know another another to take a you know another another to take a you know another another headphone headset and now the screen headphone headset and now the screen headphone headset and now the screen reader was was not pronouncing the same reader was was not pronouncing the same reader was was not pronouncing the same and I was like what what did what did he and I was like what what did what did he and I was like what what did what did he say what was it was it a t a p um so say what was it was it a t a p um so say what was it was it a t a p um so yeah it's small things but yeah when you

yeah it's small things but yeah when you yeah it's small things but yeah when you accumulate them on a dayto day it's it's accumulate them on a dayto day it's it's accumulate them on a dayto day it's it's it's pretty hard but uh yeah yeah maybe it's pretty hard but uh yeah yeah maybe it's pretty hard but uh yeah yeah maybe 30% it's it's a it's a good which is a 30% it's it's a it's a good which is a 30% it's it's a it's a good which is a lot because that's 30% you could be lot because that's 30% you could be lot because that's 30% you could be doing other stuff for you know I'll have doing other stuff for you know I'll have doing other stuff for you know I'll have a whole day where I won't think about a whole day where I won't think about a whole day where I won't think about diabetes and then I'll have another day diabetes and then I'll have another day diabetes and then I'll have another day where I'm having a pity party you know where I'm having a pity party you know where I'm having a pity party you know I'm like oh this sucks woe is me um and I'm like oh this sucks woe is me um and I'm like oh this sucks woe is me um and that's that's super frustrating and I that's that's super frustrating and I that's that's super frustrating and I I'm curious like there was this there I'm curious like there was this there I'm curious like there was this there was this skit once on a on a comedy show was this skit once on a on a comedy show was this skit once on a on a comedy show Dom it was called Saturday Night Live Dom it was called Saturday Night Live Dom it was called Saturday Night Live where a blind person goes on Oprah and where a blind person goes on Oprah and where a blind person goes on Oprah and Oprah is like the you know the the talk Oprah is like the you know the the talk Oprah is like the you know the the talk show host and there's this idea that show host and there's this idea that show host and there's this idea that like the blind person's expectation is like the blind person's expectation is like the blind person's expectation is they're supposed to inspire us and they're supposed to inspire us and they're supposed to inspire us and Oprah's like oh you're so inspirational Oprah's like oh you're so inspirational Oprah's like oh you're so inspirational and you're working so hard and we and you're working so hard and we and you're working so hard and we appreciate you so much and the blind guy appreciate you so much and the blind guy appreciate you so much and the blind guy in the joke of the is like no it sucks in the joke of the is like no it sucks in the joke of the is like no it sucks it sucks every day like I'm not here to it sucks every day like I'm not here to it sucks every day like I'm not here to inspire you I'm here to tell you that inspire you I'm here to tell you that inspire you I'm here to tell you that this sucks and you should not if you can this sucks and you should not if you can this sucks and you should not if you can avoid it avoid being blind because it's avoid it avoid being blind because it's avoid it avoid being blind because it's not fun at all and I wonder if you ever not fun at all and I wonder if you ever not fun at all and I wonder if you ever feel like people expect you to inspire feel like people expect you to inspire feel like people expect you to inspire them oh yeah yeah it's uh it's a them oh yeah yeah it's uh it's a them oh yeah yeah it's uh it's a challenge sometimes and and for me the challenge sometimes and and for me the challenge sometimes and and for me the what what was difficult earlier uh in what what was difficult earlier uh in what what was difficult earlier uh in when I was young for example it was I it when I was young for example it was I it when I was young for example it was I it was not really visible that I had an was not really visible that I had an was not really visible that I had an issue so that that was opening a lot of issue so that that was opening a lot of issue so that that was opening a lot of of problem let's just take at school for of problem let's just take at school for of problem let's just take at school for example uh at some point near 10 I I example uh at some point near 10 I I example uh at some point near 10 I I started to have really really hard time started to have really really hard time started to have really really hard time to read the the board in front and I I

to read the the board in front and I I to read the the board in front and I I wanted to go in the back because I was wanted to go in the back because I was wanted to go in the back because I was not really uh well I I was supposed to not really uh well I I was supposed to not really uh well I I was supposed to to sit in the back but I was not seeing to sit in the back but I was not seeing to sit in the back but I was not seeing anything so uh at some point when when anything so uh at some point when when anything so uh at some point when when you are a not really a a I quote unquote you are a not really a a I quote unquote you are a not really a a I quote unquote a good student uh it's hard to believe a good student uh it's hard to believe a good student uh it's hard to believe from from you know teachers that well is from from you know teachers that well is from from you know teachers that well is it is it really his eyes or I don't know it is it really his eyes or I don't know it is it really his eyes or I don't know he wants to so yeah so for me it was it he wants to so yeah so for me it was it he wants to so yeah so for me it was it was like that at first more than was like that at first more than was like that at first more than inspiring people just just trying to to inspiring people just just trying to to inspiring people just just trying to to say well you know I'm I'm I'm really say well you know I'm I'm I'm really say well you know I'm I'm I'm really legally blind I I understand so people legally blind I I understand so people legally blind I I understand so people have difficulties seeing someone that is have difficulties seeing someone that is have difficulties seeing someone that is not you know fully blind uh not you know fully blind uh not you know fully blind uh understanding you know that it's not a understanding you know that it's not a understanding you know that it's not a binary thing uh it's it's it's really binary thing uh it's it's it's really binary thing uh it's it's it's really there there's a lot of grades in in there there's a lot of grades in in there there's a lot of grades in in there you know that's so true disability there you know that's so true disability there you know that's so true disability in general I think able-bodied people in general I think able-bodied people in general I think able-bodied people think it's a a binary you know you're think it's a a binary you know you're think it's a a binary you know you're diabetic no sugar zero sugar you're diabetic no sugar zero sugar you're diabetic no sugar zero sugar you're blind you see you see nothing you see blind you see you see nothing you see blind you see you see nothing you see Blackness and it's a spectrum um I'm Blackness and it's a spectrum um I'm Blackness and it's a spectrum um I'm curious when did this uh you said the curious when did this uh you said the curious when did this uh you said the last couple three years have been rough last couple three years have been rough last couple three years have been rough because you've lost your Center vision because you've lost your Center vision because you've lost your Center vision and that was just something you knew was and that was just something you knew was and that was just something you knew was coming or was that a surprise oh yeah coming or was that a surprise oh yeah coming or was that a surprise oh yeah yeah I knew uh I was told uh I was told yeah I knew uh I was told uh I was told yeah I knew uh I was told uh I was told near near five I was not supposed to uh near near five I was not supposed to uh near near five I was not supposed to uh to have past 20 in fact so they uh they to have past 20 in fact so they uh they to have past 20 in fact so they uh they guesstimate uh and told told my mother guesstimate uh and told told my mother guesstimate uh and told told my mother actually uh that at 20 I was supposed to actually uh that at 20 I was supposed to actually uh that at 20 I was supposed to be blind so she uh she did not even uh

be blind so she uh she did not even uh be blind so she uh she did not even uh how can I say that uh I I never returned how can I say that uh I I never returned how can I say that uh I I never returned to uh to an eye doctor for a long time to uh to an eye doctor for a long time to uh to an eye doctor for a long time after that because she wanted me to have after that because she wanted me to have after that because she wanted me to have a I don't know a quote unquote normal a I don't know a quote unquote normal a I don't know a quote unquote normal and uh child childhood so yes the last and uh child childhood so yes the last and uh child childhood so yes the last three years I I knew but I'm I'm still three years I I knew but I'm I'm still three years I I knew but I'm I'm still you know I'm still very grateful for you know I'm still very grateful for you know I'm still very grateful for what I had because uh I I at some point what I had because uh I I at some point what I had because uh I I at some point in in my life I attended a a school for in in my life I attended a a school for in in my life I attended a a school for blinds and and things like that so I blinds and and things like that so I blinds and and things like that so I mean i' I've seen I've seen people with mean i' I've seen I've seen people with mean i' I've seen I've seen people with with you with you with you know uh there situation was was harder know uh there situation was was harder know uh there situation was was harder than than me I would say so so yes I'm than than me I would say so so yes I'm than than me I would say so so yes I'm grateful for what I had uh it was it was grateful for what I had uh it was it was grateful for what I had uh it was it was pretty difficult uh be you know I I pretty difficult uh be you know I I pretty difficult uh be you know I I really really love to program so that really really love to program so that really really love to program so that that was the last thing because that is that was the last thing because that is that was the last thing because that is that is the hard part in my life so far that is the hard part in my life so far that is the hard part in my life so far is that I I need to let go some things is that I I need to let go some things is that I I need to let go some things at some point because I cannot do that at some point because I cannot do that at some point because I cannot do that like I was saying uh I I was playing ay like I was saying uh I I was playing ay like I was saying uh I I was playing ay at the age of 12 13 at some point I I I at the age of 12 13 at some point I I I at the age of 12 13 at some point I I I cannot do that and and now you know I cannot do that and and now you know I cannot do that and and now you know I told my wife you know I cannot stop to told my wife you know I cannot stop to told my wife you know I cannot stop to do programming this this is really do programming this this is really do programming this this is really really who I am I can't it's my passion really who I am I can't it's my passion really who I am I can't it's my passion now um so yeah I was really afraid uh of now um so yeah I was really afraid uh of now um so yeah I was really afraid uh of how the transition was going to be uh how the transition was going to be uh how the transition was going to be uh Visual Studio code is a great great Visual Studio code is a great great Visual Studio code is a great great accessible tool I'm so grateful for accessible tool I'm so grateful for accessible tool I'm so grateful for people at Microsoft for for putting the people at Microsoft for for putting the people at Microsoft for for putting the the efforts that they are doing and if I the efforts that they are doing and if I the efforts that they are doing and if I can help uh I try to to open a couple of

can help uh I try to to open a couple of can help uh I try to to open a couple of issues in their here and there but but issues in their here and there but but issues in their here and there but but wow this tool this tool is great that's wow this tool this tool is great that's wow this tool this tool is great that's really good you know it's it's never a really good you know it's it's never a really good you know it's it's never a good time to have a disability but you good time to have a disability but you good time to have a disability but you know it doesn't it always seem like know it doesn't it always seem like know it doesn't it always seem like since technology is moving forward that since technology is moving forward that since technology is moving forward that like if you're going to get a thing now like if you're going to get a thing now like if you're going to get a thing now is the time like again I keep using the is the time like again I keep using the is the time like again I keep using the diabetes as an example like when I had diabetes as an example like when I had diabetes as an example like when I had it in the early 90s it really sucked and it in the early 90s it really sucked and it in the early 90s it really sucked and if you were diagnosed today you have all if you were diagnosed today you have all if you were diagnosed today you have all these tools is it is it easier with the these tools is it is it easier with the these tools is it is it easier with the the seeing AI tools on the iPhone that the seeing AI tools on the iPhone that the seeing AI tools on the iPhone that can you can take a phone and point it at can you can take a phone and point it at can you can take a phone and point it at a scene and it will tell you what's a scene and it will tell you what's a scene and it will tell you what's happening do you use those tools do they happening do you use those tools do they happening do you use those tools do they have those has has blindness sucked less have those has has blindness sucked less have those has has blindness sucked less because of the tech improvements I'm I'm because of the tech improvements I'm I'm because of the tech improvements I'm I'm not a a mobile user that that is strange not a a mobile user that that is strange not a a mobile user that that is strange because I have a lot of friends that because I have a lot of friends that because I have a lot of friends that that are blind as well and and they you that are blind as well and and they you that are blind as well and and they you know they use that thing a lot I don't know they use that thing a lot I don't know they use that thing a lot I don't uh to me yeah yeah oh yeah I don't I uh to me yeah yeah oh yeah I don't I uh to me yeah yeah oh yeah I don't I don't know why I don't know what it is don't know why I don't know what it is don't know why I don't know what it is uh maybe maybe because I'm I'm coming uh maybe maybe because I'm I'm coming uh maybe maybe because I'm I'm coming from you know before using a screen from you know before using a screen from you know before using a screen reader I was having so many difficulties reader I was having so many difficulties reader I was having so many difficulties because it's so tiny on on there um but because it's so tiny on on there um but because it's so tiny on on there um but yes no I'm not uh I'm not using that a yes no I'm not uh I'm not using that a yes no I'm not uh I'm not using that a lot to be frank but but I see I I see lot to be frank but but I see I I see lot to be frank but but I see I I see you know I've seen it it seems to be you know I've seen it it seems to be you know I've seen it it seems to be really nice uh yeah they're talking really nice uh yeah they're talking really nice uh yeah they're talking about wearing glasses and then walking about wearing glasses and then walking about wearing glasses and then walking around and having it click in your ear around and having it click in your ear around and having it click in your ear until you turn left turn right reading until you turn left turn right reading until you turn left turn right reading street signs you know i' I've only seen street signs you know i' I've only seen street signs you know i' I've only seen the Tik toks I don't know it's likeing

the Tik toks I don't know it's likeing the Tik toks I don't know it's likeing it seems to be improving people's lives it seems to be improving people's lives it seems to be improving people's lives but it seems like like to your point but it seems like like to your point but it seems like like to your point everyone's different so it really everyone's different so it really everyone's different so it really depends on your use case yes and also I depends on your use case yes and also I depends on your use case yes and also I mean I don't I don't know if it's mean I don't I don't know if it's mean I don't I don't know if it's marketing or what not I I I don't know marketing or what not I I I don't know marketing or what not I I I don't know if if we are there yet but yes if it's if if we are there yet but yes if it's if if we are there yet but yes if it's coming like that and if it what we are coming like that and if it what we are coming like that and if it what we are seeing I I was seeing someone that was seeing I I was seeing someone that was seeing I I was seeing someone that was waiting for for a taxi cab and the thing waiting for for a taxi cab and the thing waiting for for a taxi cab and the thing was saying well it's about I don't know was saying well it's about I don't know was saying well it's about I don't know 15 meters from you and things like that 15 meters from you and things like that 15 meters from you and things like that so I mean that's cool the future is so I mean that's cool the future is so I mean that's cool the future is bright to be frank I mean this is this bright to be frank I mean this is this bright to be frank I mean this is this is great this is yeah yeah yeah these is great this is yeah yeah yeah these is great this is yeah yeah yeah these these these scene readers are built into these these scene readers are built into these these scene readers are built into the iPhone now I just got iPhone 18 and the iPhone now I just got iPhone 18 and the iPhone now I just got iPhone 18 and it's built in and it will like look at it's built in and it will like look at it's built in and it will like look at stuff and tell you what's going on and stuff and tell you what's going on and stuff and tell you what's going on and we spoke on the phone earlier are you an we spoke on the phone earlier are you an we spoke on the phone earlier are you an iPhone user or an Android user Android iPhone user or an Android user Android iPhone user or an Android user Android yeah no yeah to be to be frank I I I yeah no yeah to be to be frank I I I yeah no yeah to be to be frank I I I don't use that at all I mean I'm I just don't use that at all I mean I'm I just don't use that at all I mean I'm I just I just do phone on that thing that's it I just do phone on that thing that's it I just do phone on that thing that's it I'm not reading any PDF I I'm not I I'm not reading any PDF I I'm not I I'm not reading any PDF I I'm not I don't do anything I'm I'm always on my don't do anything I'm I'm always on my don't do anything I'm I'm always on my computer the the computer is good computer the the computer is good computer the the computer is good computer is reliable yeah I I like text computer is reliable yeah I I like text computer is reliable yeah I I like text you know all text file and whatnot so so you know all text file and whatnot so so you know all text file and whatnot so so I yeah it it was sad to for me I I I I yeah it it was sad to for me I I I I yeah it it was sad to for me I I I needed to uh to quit Linux to be frank needed to uh to quit Linux to be frank needed to uh to quit Linux to be frank but you know I'm I'm on the WSL and as but you know I'm I'm on the WSL and as but you know I'm I'm on the WSL and as as long as it's tax I'm I'm so I'm just as long as it's tax I'm I'm so I'm just as long as it's tax I'm I'm so I'm just happy yeah wi Windows terminal works happy yeah wi Windows terminal works happy yeah wi Windows terminal works okay for you oh it's great yeah it's okay for you oh it's great yeah it's okay for you oh it's great yeah it's great unfortunately yeah the the Ora or great unfortunately yeah the the Ora or great unfortunately yeah the the Ora or Ora is the the technology the screen Ora is the the technology the screen Ora is the the technology the screen reader on on Linux it it did not work reader on on Linux it it did not work reader on on Linux it it did not work for me so yes I did a I did a return uh for me so yes I did a I did a return uh for me so yes I did a I did a return uh on Windows which which is it's it's it's

on Windows which which is it's it's it's on Windows which which is it's it's it's okay I mean it's it's it's very the okay I mean it's it's it's very the okay I mean it's it's it's very the accessibility is good there there's no accessibility is good there there's no accessibility is good there there's no question there so so yes hey friends as question there so so yes hey friends as question there so so yes hey friends as I spend the next couple of months I spend the next couple of months I spend the next couple of months learning more and more about AI in the learning more and more about AI in the learning more and more about AI in the middle of the show I'm going to pause middle of the show I'm going to pause middle of the show I'm going to pause for a second and I'm going to bring in for a second and I'm going to bring in for a second and I'm going to bring in lbert Van Dorne senior VP of engineering lbert Van Dorne senior VP of engineering lbert Van Dorne senior VP of engineering at Qualcomm to help me understand more at Qualcomm to help me understand more at Qualcomm to help me understand more about what's going on ler at Qualcomm about what's going on ler at Qualcomm about what's going on ler at Qualcomm when you came in you needed to shift the when you came in you needed to shift the when you came in you needed to shift the culture to an open one to and you wrote culture to an open one to and you wrote culture to an open one to and you wrote Manifesto to help people get their heads Manifesto to help people get their heads Manifesto to help people get their heads right talk to me about that Manifesto right talk to me about that Manifesto right talk to me about that Manifesto yeah so it feels like every Big company yeah so it feels like every Big company yeah so it feels like every Big company needs to go through this kind of culture needs to go through this kind of culture needs to go through this kind of culture change to become more open and to uh change to become more open and to uh change to become more open and to uh adopt certainly open source and so yes I adopt certainly open source and so yes I adopt certainly open source and so yes I wrote a Manifesto where I basically wrote a Manifesto where I basically wrote a Manifesto where I basically pointed out that our traditional pointed out that our traditional pointed out that our traditional business model uh which is around cell business model uh which is around cell business model uh which is around cell phones which has beta extremely phones which has beta extremely phones which has beta extremely successful right doesn't really work or successful right doesn't really work or successful right doesn't really work or doesn't scale to our new strategy where doesn't scale to our new strategy where doesn't scale to our new strategy where we're diversifying we're we addressing we're diversifying we're we addressing we're diversifying we're we addressing XR we're addressing PC we're addressing XR we're addressing PC we're addressing XR we're addressing PC we're addressing iot we're addressing iot we're addressing iot we're addressing auto key thing about all these new auto key thing about all these new auto key thing about all these new Diversified businesses is that open Diversified businesses is that open Diversified businesses is that open source is a critical part of that source is a critical part of that source is a critical part of that business model and so we need to we business model and so we need to we business model and so we need to we needed to adopt that and we needed to needed to adopt that and we needed to needed to adopt that and we needed to embrace it and basically it was very embrace it and basically it was very embrace it and basically it was very well received by my SE suite and it's well received by my SE suite and it's well received by my SE suite and it's very actively Something That We're very actively Something That We're very actively Something That We're engaging in so a lot of the open source engaging in so a lot of the open source engaging in so a lot of the open source engagements that you see from a lot of engagements that you see from a lot of engagements that you see from a lot of Welcome developers it sort of goes back

Welcome developers it sort of goes back Welcome developers it sort of goes back it's a continuation really shouldn't say it's a continuation really shouldn't say it's a continuation really shouldn't say that I all started it but I certainly that I all started it but I certainly that I all started it but I certainly put the emphasis on it was like hey this put the emphasis on it was like hey this put the emphasis on it was like hey this is going to call it a beast I'm pretty is going to call it a beast I'm pretty is going to call it a beast I'm pretty excited about I love it open First excited about I love it open First excited about I love it open First Community First a lot of great stuff Community First a lot of great stuff Community First a lot of great stuff happening at Qualcomm you can learn more happening at Qualcomm you can learn more happening at Qualcomm you can learn more at at at qualcomm.com qualcomm.com qualcomm.com developer I saw a Tik Tok a couple of developer I saw a Tik Tok a couple of developer I saw a Tik Tok a couple of days ago where a young man was using his days ago where a young man was using his days ago where a young man was using his iPhone to text his friend and talk on um iPhone to text his friend and talk on um iPhone to text his friend and talk on um look at Instagram and the screen reader look at Instagram and the screen reader look at Instagram and the screen reader was going so fast that it sounded just like and he totally understood it um and like and he totally understood it um and I've used screen readers uh in the early I've used screen readers uh in the early I've used screen readers uh in the early days because Vision has been a big part days because Vision has been a big part days because Vision has been a big part of my diabetes journey I I'm negative uh of my diabetes journey I I'm negative uh of my diabetes journey I I'm negative uh 10 11 diopters so 10 11 diopters so 10 11 diopters so 20600 I had laser surgery now I have 20600 I had laser surgery now I have 20600 I had laser surgery now I have cataracts so blindness is in my future cataracts so blindness is in my future cataracts so blindness is in my future somewhere so I've always thought about I somewhere so I've always thought about I somewhere so I've always thought about I need to be familiar with a screen reader need to be familiar with a screen reader need to be familiar with a screen reader cuz I just don't know where I'm going cuz I just don't know where I'm going cuz I just don't know where I'm going with this but I've never been able to with this but I've never been able to with this but I've never been able to get it Beyond 100% speed did you start get it Beyond 100% speed did you start get it Beyond 100% speed did you start talk to me about screen readers how you talk to me about screen readers how you talk to me about screen readers how you started with a screen reader and how you started with a screen reader and how you started with a screen reader and how you get up to speed and now you're actually get up to speed and now you're actually get up to speed and now you're actually listening to music and doing the screen listening to music and doing the screen listening to music and doing the screen reader at the same time so walk me reader at the same time so walk me reader at the same time so walk me through that screen reader Journey oh through that screen reader Journey oh through that screen reader Journey oh yeah it it was it was painful completely yeah it it was it was painful completely yeah it it was it was painful completely painful I to be completely Frank I painful I to be completely Frank I painful I to be completely Frank I should have started to use a screen should have started to use a screen should have started to use a screen reader like like five or six years ago I reader like like five or six years ago I reader like like five or six years ago I I'm yeah I I stubborn oh yeah totally

I'm yeah I I stubborn oh yeah totally I'm yeah I I stubborn oh yeah totally totally it but it's difficult it's totally it but it's difficult it's totally it but it's difficult it's difficult to accept where you are and difficult to accept where you are and difficult to accept where you are and now now I'm good with myself but at that now now I'm good with myself but at that now now I'm good with myself but at that time um and and you know what I I it's time um and and you know what I I it's time um and and you know what I I it's about at that time that I stopped to to about at that time that I stopped to to about at that time that I stopped to to read documentation and now I oh no I I read documentation and now I oh no I I read documentation and now I oh no I I have this API that I need to implement have this API that I need to implement have this API that I need to implement oh damn I need to read uh you know oh damn I need to read uh you know oh damn I need to read uh you know documentation and whatnot so the when I documentation and whatnot so the when I documentation and whatnot so the when I started it was it was extremely painful started it was it was extremely painful started it was it was extremely painful because I had so many because I had so many because I had so many reflexes uh from always using you know reflexes uh from always using you know reflexes uh from always using you know my eyes and whatnot and and it was my eyes and whatnot and and it was my eyes and whatnot and and it was always in my in my I don't know it was always in my in my I don't know it was always in my in my I don't know it was in my way a little bit like co-pilot to in my way a little bit like co-pilot to in my way a little bit like co-pilot to be frank but but that's another story be frank but but that's another story be frank but but that's another story but uh but yeah to to be frank so it it but uh but yeah to to be frank so it it but uh but yeah to to be frank so it it took a long time I would say I I would took a long time I would say I I would took a long time I would say I I would even even say one year it took me one even even say one year it took me one even even say one year it took me one year to finally be able to to accept year to finally be able to to accept year to finally be able to to accept that okay you know what this thing is that okay you know what this thing is that okay you know what this thing is the driver I will I will and and now I I the driver I will I will and and now I I the driver I will I will and and now I I I started also at that time to bump the I started also at that time to bump the I started also at that time to bump the the speed so now I I'm I'm in in the the speed so now I I'm I'm in in the the speed so now I I'm I'm in in the boost mode so so you have zero to one boost mode so so you have zero to one boost mode so so you have zero to one person and after that you have a boost person and after that you have a boost person and after that you have a boost I'm now at 30% of the Boost which is I I'm now at 30% of the Boost which is I I'm now at 30% of the Boost which is I mean this thing is reading now I'm not mean this thing is reading now I'm not mean this thing is reading now I'm not afraid you know give me give me a new afraid you know give me give me a new afraid you know give me give me a new product give me a new library I don't I product give me a new library I don't I product give me a new library I don't I don't mind I will I will read the don't mind I will I will read the don't mind I will I will read the documentation it it's reading documentation it it's reading documentation it it's reading really I never read I never read like at really I never read I never read like at really I never read I never read like at that speed never in my life so wow so that speed never in my life so wow so that speed never in my life so wow so now I'm I'm I I was starting to see you now I'm I'm I I was starting to see you now I'm I'm I I was starting to see you know what there is some benefits in that know what there is some benefits in that know what there is some benefits in that thing and at the end of my days you know

thing and at the end of my days you know thing and at the end of my days you know I I was extremely tired when I was not I I was extremely tired when I was not I I was extremely tired when I was not using the screen reader my my eyes was using the screen reader my my eyes was using the screen reader my my eyes was was hurting my head was hurting I was was hurting my head was hurting I was was hurting my head was hurting I was not good you know with my family I was I not good you know with my family I was I not good you know with my family I was I was like cranky and whatnot now I mean was like cranky and whatnot now I mean was like cranky and whatnot now I mean I'm I'm just cruising sometime I I I can I'm I'm just cruising sometime I I I can I'm I'm just cruising sometime I I I can I can just you know close my eyes and I can just you know close my eyes and I can just you know close my eyes and and do my work and it's good it's really and do my work and it's good it's really and do my work and it's good it's really yeah did it did it change your brain yeah did it did it change your brain yeah did it did it change your brain like you know how you it's like exercise like you know how you it's like exercise like you know how you it's like exercise right so you changed your brain and how right so you changed your brain and how right so you changed your brain and how it interacts with the screen reader and it interacts with the screen reader and it interacts with the screen reader and if you are sitting writing some code and if you are sitting writing some code and if you are sitting writing some code and you need to kind of like sit back and you need to kind of like sit back and you need to kind of like sit back and get an overview like basically what I do get an overview like basically what I do get an overview like basically what I do I I zoom out and I look at this this I I zoom out and I look at this this I I zoom out and I look at this this current function do you effectively I'm current function do you effectively I'm current function do you effectively I'm putting my hands up in air quotes do you putting my hands up in air quotes do you putting my hands up in air quotes do you zoom out and then have it read the zoom out and then have it read the zoom out and then have it read the function back to you so you can kind of function back to you so you can kind of function back to you so you can kind of go what am I doing here and it reads it go what am I doing here and it reads it go what am I doing here and it reads it really fast and you see the code in your really fast and you see the code in your really fast and you see the code in your head it's funny it's funny that that head it's funny it's funny that that head it's funny it's funny that that you're saying that so I never were able you're saying that so I never were able you're saying that so I never were able to do that so even when when I was not to do that so even when when I was not to do that so even when when I was not using a screen reader so my my problem using a screen reader so my my problem using a screen reader so my my problem is actually the field of vision so is actually the field of vision so is actually the field of vision so normal you know normal sighted people as normal you know normal sighted people as normal you know normal sighted people as like one 180ish field division I was like one 180ish field division I was like one 180ish field division I was having like three or two when when I having like three or two when when I having like three or two when when I when I was you know seeing good um so I when I was you know seeing good um so I when I was you know seeing good um so I I never was able I I never was able to I never was able I I never was able to I never was able I I never was able to see more than uh two or three see more than uh two or three see more than uh two or three letters uh in in one look because you're letters uh in in one look because you're letters uh in in one look because you're looking through a pinhole yes yeah

looking through a pinhole yes yeah looking through a pinhole yes yeah totally so I'm extremely good uh totally so I'm extremely good uh totally so I'm extremely good uh actually this is this is how I met my actually this is this is how I met my actually this is this is how I met my wife actually so so I'm actually good at wife actually so so I'm actually good at wife actually so so I'm actually good at guessing what what words are and things guessing what what words are and things guessing what what words are and things like that so I mean so uh so no I'm I'm like that so I mean so uh so no I'm I'm like that so I mean so uh so no I'm I'm I'm not doing that my my my work memory I'm not doing that my my my work memory I'm not doing that my my my work memory I don't know if we can say that in I don't know if we can say that in I don't know if we can say that in English but in French we say uh the work English but in French we say uh the work English but in French we say uh the work memory my my my memory is very good my memory my my my memory is very good my memory my my my memory is very good my shortterm and long-term memory your shortterm and long-term memory your shortterm and long-term memory your buffer your your short-term buffer is buffer your your short-term buffer is buffer your your short-term buffer is excellent exact so so that is my you excellent exact so so that is my you excellent exact so so that is my you know my superpower and I have that since know my superpower and I have that since know my superpower and I have that since since the beginning because I I could since the beginning because I I could since the beginning because I I could never you know see the entire thing so never you know see the entire thing so never you know see the entire thing so um so no I don't do that because I I um so no I don't do that because I I um so no I don't do that because I I kind of remember what what was going on kind of remember what what was going on kind of remember what what was going on and uh yeah you know that's so and uh yeah you know that's so and uh yeah you know that's so interesting because they always have interesting because they always have interesting because they always have that thing where you um you think a that thing where you um you think a that thing where you um you think a blind person or a person who's deaf has blind person or a person who's deaf has blind person or a person who's deaf has some other superpower because their some other superpower because their some other superpower because their other sense becomes enhanced like you other sense becomes enhanced like you other sense becomes enhanced like you have super hearing but which you have is have super hearing but which you have is have super hearing but which you have is a really good short-term buffer you're a really good short-term buffer you're a really good short-term buffer you're holding the code and the concepts in holding the code and the concepts in holding the code and the concepts in your brain and holding it there and your brain and holding it there and your brain and holding it there and manipulating it but it's not using manipulating it but it's not using manipulating it but it's not using Vision it's just Concepts right you're Vision it's just Concepts right you're Vision it's just Concepts right you're holding the the the the code the code holding the the the the code the code holding the the the the code the code Dom if I may you know the document Dom if I may you know the document Dom if I may you know the document object model of your code is in your object model of your code is in your object model of your code is in your brain yeah absolutely so that that that brain yeah absolutely so that that that brain yeah absolutely so that that that is why I I I like to maintain you know is why I I I like to maintain you know is why I I I like to maintain you know software for a long time you know I have software for a long time you know I have software for a long time you know I have no issues at all doing that because um no issues at all doing that because um no issues at all doing that because um at some point you can ask me a question

at some point you can ask me a question at some point you can ask me a question I'm not even on the computer and kind oh I'm not even on the computer and kind oh I'm not even on the computer and kind oh yeah this this is in in that file near yeah this this is in in that file near yeah this this is in in that file near the line 500 this people find it the line 500 this people find it the line 500 this people find it completely crazy when I do those kind of completely crazy when I do those kind of completely crazy when I do those kind of things because I yes I do I do have the things because I yes I do I do have the things because I yes I do I do have the code in in my mind somewhere code in in my mind somewhere code in in my mind somewhere so now you're doing you're doing go so now you're doing you're doing go so now you're doing you're doing go right now like this might be a dumb right now like this might be a dumb right now like this might be a dumb question but it's worth asking is there question but it's worth asking is there question but it's worth asking is there a programming language that is better a programming language that is better a programming language that is better for blind people or are they all kind of for blind people or are they all kind of for blind people or are they all kind of the same like because you did net you the same like because you did net you the same like because you did net you did you do go now is there one that did you do go now is there one that did you do go now is there one that works better or is it all just works better or is it all just works better or is it all just code I I really enjoy go to be frank code I I really enjoy go to be frank code I I really enjoy go to be frank it's it's it's one of the most it's it's it's one of the most it's it's it's one of the most accessible I think because of the accessible I think because of the accessible I think because of the tooling to be frank so it's for me it's tooling to be frank so it's for me it's tooling to be frank so it's for me it's all about the tooling uh making sure all about the tooling uh making sure all about the tooling uh making sure that you know the compiler is is there that you know the compiler is is there that you know the compiler is is there to help you and because when you are to help you and because when you are to help you and because when you are when you are blind one difficulties that when you are blind one difficulties that when you are blind one difficulties that you have is scanning a a blob a huge you you have is scanning a a blob a huge you you have is scanning a a blob a huge you know blob of text I cannot do that know blob of text I cannot do that know blob of text I cannot do that anymore you know uh scanning across a a anymore you know uh scanning across a a anymore you know uh scanning across a a huge stack trace and whatnot this is huge stack trace and whatnot this is huge stack trace and whatnot this is this is not possible so you can can very this is not possible so you can can very this is not possible so you can can very quickly spot oh yeah you know this is my quickly spot oh yeah you know this is my quickly spot oh yeah you know this is my my my C file is is there across the my my C file is is there across the my my C file is is there across the 1,000 uh yeah so so yes so go for me is 1,000 uh yeah so so yes so go for me is 1,000 uh yeah so so yes so go for me is is is just is just a good partner in is is just is just a good partner in is is just is just a good partner in that way because that way because that way because it's yeah it's simple what what about it's yeah it's simple what what about it's yeah it's simple what what about like the miss you know the whole problem like the miss you know the whole problem like the miss you know the whole problem of the missing semicolon where you know of the missing semicolon where you know of the missing semicolon where you know you're staring at some code for days and you're staring at some code for days and you're staring at some code for days and you like oh there's a comma there or oh you like oh there's a comma there or oh you like oh there's a comma there or oh there's a missing

there's a missing there's a missing semicolon does do you count on the a semicolon does do you count on the a semicolon does do you count on the a linter or do you have to scan through linter or do you have to scan through linter or do you have to scan through the code to find those kind of syntax the code to find those kind of syntax the code to find those kind of syntax errors yeah this is uh this is linters errors yeah this is uh this is linters errors yeah this is uh this is linters for me I was doing a video a couple of I for me I was doing a video a couple of I for me I was doing a video a couple of I I tried to continue doing some content I tried to continue doing some content I tried to continue doing some content and I I did a video at some point on and I I did a video at some point on and I I did a video at some point on YouTube and I was like looking why I YouTube and I was like looking why I YouTube and I was like looking why I have a com a compilation error and yes have a com a compilation error and yes have a com a compilation error and yes that that was a comma especially in that that was a comma especially in that that was a comma especially in Jason for example that that is that is Jason for example that that is that is Jason for example that that is that is terrible um so yes I mean linters all terrible um so yes I mean linters all terrible um so yes I mean linters all the way so so yes you need you need to the way so so yes you need you need to the way so so yes you need you need to have tools you need to have tools have tools you need to have tools have tools you need to have tools because again you you cannot scan you because again you you cannot scan you because again you you cannot scan you cannot scan quickly uh you you have to cannot scan quickly uh you you have to cannot scan quickly uh you you have to pass one you know one line at a time and pass one you know one line at a time and pass one you know one line at a time and and you know hear what what hear and and you know hear what what hear and and you know hear what what hear and understand what what you are doing there understand what what you are doing there understand what what you are doing there so because at at some point I I remember so because at at some point I I remember so because at at some point I I remember uh I I I I was able to do that at at uh I I I I was able to do that at at uh I I I I was able to do that at at some point earlier in my career you know some point earlier in my career you know some point earlier in my career you know just just spot a block of code and and just just spot a block of code and and just just spot a block of code and and be able to say you know there there's a be able to say you know there there's a be able to say you know there there's a tyo there or there's something there so tyo there or there's something there so tyo there or there's something there so uh is there a thing that is that you're uh is there a thing that is that you're uh is there a thing that is that you're that you're that you're the most that you're that you're the most that you're that you're the most frustrated with like what do you miss frustrated with like what do you miss frustrated with like what do you miss the most because we were talking a the most because we were talking a the most because we were talking a little bit before that you you said little bit before that you you said little bit before that you you said maybe you weren't as mobile as you would maybe you weren't as mobile as you would maybe you weren't as mobile as you would like like physically mobile uh cuz I can like like physically mobile uh cuz I can like like physically mobile uh cuz I can only imagine that working in a virtual only imagine that working in a virtual only imagine that working in a virtual world is much easier than like blindly world is much easier than like blindly world is much easier than like blindly no pun intended going and getting on a no pun intended going and getting on a no pun intended going and getting on a bus and going to user group and giving a bus and going to user group and giving a bus and going to user group and giving a talk and then coming back or maybe Uber talk and then coming back or maybe Uber talk and then coming back or maybe Uber has made that easier because then they has made that easier because then they has made that easier because then they can just drop you in front but it's can just drop you in front but it's can just drop you in front but it's still it's hard to go outside I would

still it's hard to go outside I would still it's hard to go outside I would assume yeah exactly because you still assume yeah exactly because you still assume yeah exactly because you still need to get out and find the place so so need to get out and find the place so so need to get out and find the place so so yes so for me and and and this is this yes so for me and and and this is this yes so for me and and and this is this is not blind related this is me domia is not blind related this is me domia is not blind related this is me domia because I have a lot of of uh friends because I have a lot of of uh friends because I have a lot of of uh friends that that are way way more mobile than that that are way way more mobile than that that are way way more mobile than me so this is a problem that I always me so this is a problem that I always me so this is a problem that I always add I don't know why exactly but yes it add I don't know why exactly but yes it add I don't know why exactly but yes it it prevented me from from going to it prevented me from from going to it prevented me from from going to conferences and also probably speaking conferences and also probably speaking conferences and also probably speaking there and things like that because yes there and things like that because yes there and things like that because yes uh uh uh it's like like like we were saying at it's like like like we were saying at it's like like like we were saying at the beginning it you choose your battle the beginning it you choose your battle the beginning it you choose your battle I guess this this to me is is hard this I guess this this to me is is hard this I guess this this to me is is hard this to me uh and and it's not because people to me uh and and it's not because people to me uh and and it's not because people are not helpful but you you always have are not helpful but you you always have are not helpful but you you always have to ask as well so this this is something to ask as well so this this is something to ask as well so this this is something that you need to to accept at some point that you need to to accept at some point that you need to to accept at some point but but again it's it's not easy and and but but again it's it's not easy and and but but again it's it's not easy and and yes but that's personalities right like yes but that's personalities right like yes but that's personalities right like just like people are people are not a just like people are people are not a just like people are people are not a monolith so you can be an introvert and monolith so you can be an introvert and monolith so you can be an introvert and blind or an extrovert and blind and it blind or an extrovert and blind and it blind or an extrovert and blind and it just it all depends so that's just a just it all depends so that's just a just it all depends so that's just a that's not blindness that's keeping you that's not blindness that's keeping you that's not blindness that's keeping you from going outside no no absolutely yeah from going outside no no absolutely yeah from going outside no no absolutely yeah exactly it's yeah it's just that I I exactly it's yeah it's just that I I exactly it's yeah it's just that I I don't want to I don't want to face that don't want to I don't want to face that don't want to I don't want to face that battle but but yes it's it's kind of battle but but yes it's it's kind of battle but but yes it's it's kind of ridiculous because yeah I I've skipped a ridiculous because yeah I I've skipped a ridiculous because yeah I I've skipped a lot of conferences that I I would have lot of conferences that I I would have lot of conferences that I I would have like to attend so yeah yeah but I I do like to attend so yeah yeah but I I do like to attend so yeah yeah but I I do want to call out though that it's not want to call out though that it's not want to call out though that it's not keeping you from being so productive you keeping you from being so productive you keeping you from being so productive you have video courses on have video courses on have video courses on go uh you've got your podcasts you you go uh you've got your podcasts you you go uh you've got your podcasts you you do feel that you want to like put like do feel that you want to like put like do feel that you want to like put like put stuff out there for people you're put stuff out there for people you're put stuff out there for people you're sharing your knowledge you're on you're

sharing your knowledge you're on you're sharing your knowledge you're on you're everywhere that podcasts can be can be everywhere that podcasts can be can be everywhere that podcasts can be can be seen you sell uh courses and then you seen you sell uh courses and then you seen you sell uh courses and then you also have your own business how do you also have your own business how do you also have your own business how do you pronounce it kiwi palis yeah kiwi palis pronounce it kiwi palis yeah kiwi palis pronounce it kiwi palis yeah kiwi palis yeah exactly so I've always wanted yeah exactly so I've always wanted yeah exactly so I've always wanted because yeah because for me the the most because yeah because for me the the most because yeah because for me the the most important thing thing for me is is I I I important thing thing for me is is I I I important thing thing for me is is I I I to have purpose in what I'm doing so to have purpose in what I'm doing so to have purpose in what I'm doing so that that is why since 2008 I'm trying that that is why since 2008 I'm trying that that is why since 2008 I'm trying to to build that SAS that that will to to build that SAS that that will to to build that SAS that that will sustain my family and whatnot so uh so I sustain my family and whatnot so uh so I sustain my family and whatnot so uh so I was lucky enough to uh to have have was lucky enough to uh to have have was lucky enough to uh to have have built a a a huge system at a company built a a a huge system at a company built a a a huge system at a company that was acquired by Equifax in 2023 so that was acquired by Equifax in 2023 so that was acquired by Equifax in 2023 so and in 2023 so I was able to uh to have and in 2023 so I was able to uh to have and in 2023 so I was able to uh to have some small exit from that because I I I some small exit from that because I I I some small exit from that because I I I was you know I was there since the was you know I was there since the was you know I was there since the beginning I've built the entire things beginning I've built the entire things beginning I've built the entire things it was a small 10 uh 10 people companies it was a small 10 uh 10 people companies it was a small 10 uh 10 people companies uh at the first and and when they they uh at the first and and when they they uh at the first and and when they they acquired was like 35 so you know acquired was like 35 so you know acquired was like 35 so you know smallish but but still so I I always smallish but but still so I I always smallish but but still so I I always wanted to to have have something uh from wanted to to have have something uh from wanted to to have have something uh from from my from my own and just do you know from my from my own and just do you know from my from my own and just do you know do do it all you know support sales uh do do it all you know support sales uh do do it all you know support sales uh anything marketing and whatnot so so anything marketing and whatnot so so anything marketing and whatnot so so yeah this this is this is me uh trying yeah this this is this is me uh trying yeah this this is this is me uh trying to bootstrap a a product I I've been to bootstrap a a product I I've been to bootstrap a a product I I've been trying that since since trying that since since trying that since since 2008 so and are you the loan developer 2008 so and are you the loan developer 2008 so and are you the loan developer cuz you're the CTO right now do you you cuz you're the CTO right now do you you cuz you're the CTO right now do you you have any vendors oh no no you know so C have any vendors oh no no you know so C have any vendors oh no no you know so C CTO in in those small bootstrap just CTO in in those small bootstrap just CTO in in those small bootstrap just mean that you are doing anything so you mean that you are doing anything so you mean that you are doing anything so you are doing the architecture the are doing the architecture the are doing the architecture the infrastructure the the programming the

infrastructure the the programming the infrastructure the the programming the the support so it's it's not it's not the support so it's it's not it's not the support so it's it's not it's not the CTO like Cloud flare and whatnot so the CTO like Cloud flare and whatnot so the CTO like Cloud flare and whatnot so it's it's just a just a title I'm I'm it's it's just a just a title I'm I'm it's it's just a just a title I'm I'm just a software engineer but if you just a software engineer but if you just a software engineer but if you can't like if you can't have a single can't like if you can't have a single can't like if you can't have a single software engineering business and name software engineering business and name software engineering business and name yourself CTO then what are you doing yourself CTO then what are you doing yourself CTO then what are you doing like you got a yeah Chief technical CTO like you got a yeah Chief technical CTO like you got a yeah Chief technical CTO is a great title No matter whether is a great title No matter whether is a great title No matter whether you're the only Dev or not so give you're the only Dev or not so give you're the only Dev or not so give yourself credit for that well you know yourself credit for that well you know yourself credit for that well you know we are all doing that so I'm part I'm we are all doing that so I'm part I'm we are all doing that so I'm part I'm part of this small this small community part of this small this small community part of this small this small community so B base camps base camp kind of so B base camps base camp kind of so B base camps base camp kind of started that a long time ago uh you know started that a long time ago uh you know started that a long time ago uh you know tried to bootstrap and they were not tried to bootstrap and they were not tried to bootstrap and they were not very very uh they they were not saying very very uh they they were not saying very very uh they they were not saying that they they got some founding so so that they they got some founding so so that they they got some founding so so yeah they they did took some some yeah they they did took some some yeah they they did took some some founding from Jeff Bezos at at first but founding from Jeff Bezos at at first but founding from Jeff Bezos at at first but yeah they they kind of started this this yeah they they kind of started this this yeah they they kind of started this this uh I don't know this movement of people uh I don't know this movement of people uh I don't know this movement of people that just want to that just want to that just want to to yeah self fund a a small product and to yeah self fund a a small product and to yeah self fund a a small product and just you know just do a software just you know just do a software just you know just do a software business and and this is this is what I business and and this is this is what I business and and this is this is what I I'm trying to do mhm so the Kiwi polis I'm trying to do mhm so the Kiwi polis I'm trying to do mhm so the Kiwi polis it's kiwi like the fruit yeah polus like it's kiwi like the fruit yeah polus like it's kiwi like the fruit yeah polus like a metropolis yeah uh this is a a a metropolis yeah uh this is a a a metropolis yeah uh this is a a homeschooling planner so this is a homeschooling planner so this is a homeschooling planner so this is a planner that supports you as you planner that supports you as you planner that supports you as you homeschool your kids and manage your homeschool your kids and manage your homeschool your kids and manage your your your basically your family life your your basically your family life your your basically your family life exactly yeah and there there's a there's exactly yeah and there there's a there's exactly yeah and there there's a there's a a 2d game aspect to that so how blind a a 2d game aspect to that so how blind a a 2d game aspect to that so how blind is doing a 2d game well I don't I don't is doing a 2d game well I don't I don't is doing a 2d game well I don't I don't know this is this is kind of crazy so uh know this is this is kind of crazy so uh know this is this is kind of crazy so uh so yes so just just take a bug I I fixed so yes so just just take a bug I I fixed so yes so just just take a bug I I fixed a bug this morning so my I'm I'm not a bug this morning so my I'm I'm not a bug this morning so my I'm I'm not able to move my my character in the able to move my my character in the able to move my my character in the world so when you think about that a 2d

world so when you think about that a 2d world so when you think about that a 2d game is is just it's just mat at the end game is is just it's just mat at the end game is is just it's just mat at the end of the world end of of the day so so yes of the world end of of the day so so yes of the world end of of the day so so yes it's kind of crazy but yeah do I'm it's kind of crazy but yeah do I'm it's kind of crazy but yeah do I'm curious do you make it accessible simply curious do you make it accessible simply curious do you make it accessible simply because like like do you have blind uh because like like do you have blind uh because like like do you have blind uh customers or do you just make it customers or do you just make it customers or do you just make it accessible for yourself no it's it's not accessible for yourself no it's it's not accessible for yourself no it's it's not accessible unfortunately I I just have a accessible unfortunately I I just have a accessible unfortunately I I just have a lot of of key a shortcut key that just lot of of key a shortcut key that just lot of of key a shortcut key that just allow me to uh to move and and uh skip allow me to uh to move and and uh skip allow me to uh to move and and uh skip the Collision detection and whatnot so the Collision detection and whatnot so the Collision detection and whatnot so it's not accessible because it's a it's not accessible because it's a it's not accessible because it's a canvas uh game so so yes it's not yeah canvas uh game so so yes it's not yeah canvas uh game so so yes it's not yeah so you're you found your your way in go so you're you found your your way in go so you're you found your your way in go you're making a a software as a service you're making a a software as a service you're making a a software as a service app in go you've done go courses uh and app in go you've done go courses uh and app in go you've done go courses uh and you also do the go podcast at go you also do the go podcast at go you also do the go podcast at go podcast. podcast. podcast. Dev uh which and you have other friends Dev uh which and you have other friends Dev uh which and you have other friends on the show as well uh when did you on the show as well uh when did you on the show as well uh when did you discover go and when did you decide that discover go and when did you decide that discover go and when did you decide that that was the language that you were that was the language that you were that was the language that you were going to be sticking with the rest of going to be sticking with the rest of going to be sticking with the rest of your life because it really seems like your life because it really seems like your life because it really seems like you lit up when you found go oh yeah oh you lit up when you found go oh yeah oh you lit up when you found go oh yeah oh yeah but but but yes uh I I was like yeah but but but yes uh I I was like yeah but but but yes uh I I was like that in the in in my early careers when that in the in in my early careers when that in the in in my early careers when I was doing that net to be frank but I was doing that net to be frank but I was doing that net to be frank but that's you know after 12 13 years I I that's you know after 12 13 years I I that's you know after 12 13 years I I wanted to just discover what what's out wanted to just discover what what's out wanted to just discover what what's out there and after being bitten by L you there and after being bitten by L you there and after being bitten by L you know link and uh silverite and whatnot I know link and uh silverite and whatnot I know link and uh silverite and whatnot I mean this I was like uh you know what I mean this I was like uh you know what I mean this I was like uh you know what I I want to I want to check something else I want to I want to check something else I want to I want to check something else so I I did one year of node and I was so I I did one year of node and I was so I I did one year of node and I was like oh no okay this is this is not like oh no okay this is this is not like oh no okay this is this is not going to work for me so uh at that time going to work for me so uh at that time going to work for me so uh at that time I I was looking like I was saying for

I I was looking like I was saying for I I was looking like I was saying for the the most the the most the the most comfortable uh developer experience in comfortable uh developer experience in comfortable uh developer experience in terms of CLI and and the build tool and terms of CLI and and the build tool and terms of CLI and and the build tool and the the kind of relationship that you the the kind of relationship that you the the kind of relationship that you have with with the compiler that I can have with with the compiler that I can have with with the compiler that I can say that so so go when I when I used it say that so so go when I when I used it say that so so go when I when I used it first of all it was so simple that I first of all it was so simple that I first of all it was so simple that I liked it and another thing that I really liked it and another thing that I really liked it and another thing that I really enjoy uh being a blind uh person is that enjoy uh being a blind uh person is that enjoy uh being a blind uh person is that well they were they were kind of the well they were they were kind of the well they were they were kind of the first to do to do formatting and and first to do to do formatting and and first to do to do formatting and and things like that with an opiniated way things like that with an opiniated way things like that with an opiniated way and things like that so all the projects and things like that so all the projects and things like that so all the projects all all the codebase that that you will all all the codebase that that you will all all the codebase that that you will see will mostly be formatted the same see will mostly be formatted the same see will mostly be formatted the same and for a blind user I use tab so you and for a blind user I use tab so you and for a blind user I use tab so you know for me it it's just a no-brainer know for me it it's just a no-brainer know for me it it's just a no-brainer because when you are using a screen because when you are using a screen because when you are using a screen reader when you have spaces you you need reader when you have spaces you you need reader when you have spaces you you need you know you need to hear them and you know you need to hear them and you know you need to hear them and things like that I mean yeah so so yeah things like that I mean yeah so so yeah things like that I mean yeah so so yeah go go just clicked uh I don't I don't go go just clicked uh I don't I don't go go just clicked uh I don't I don't exactly know why but it it's it's very exactly know why but it it's it's very exactly know why but it it's it's very accessible you know it makes me wonder accessible you know it makes me wonder accessible you know it makes me wonder like this might be a a bad joke or like like this might be a a bad joke or like like this might be a a bad joke or like an off-color joke but like I hate yaml an off-color joke but like I hate yaml an off-color joke but like I hate yaml and I wonder if blind people hate it and I wonder if blind people hate it and I wonder if blind people hate it equally because I'm always looking at a equally because I'm always looking at a equally because I'm always looking at a yaml file and like the space is wrong yaml file and like the space is wrong yaml file and like the space is wrong the indenting is wrong and I have you the indenting is wrong and I have you the indenting is wrong and I have you know today working eyes and I still know today working eyes and I still know today working eyes and I still can't get that damn thing to format I can't get that damn thing to format I can't get that damn thing to format I would just never how would you even find would just never how would you even find would just never how would you even find spaces versus tabs Whit space issues in spaces versus tabs Whit space issues in spaces versus tabs Whit space issues in a tool like that you'd have to have it a tool like that you'd have to have it a tool like that you'd have to have it read out each white space and debug that

read out each white space and debug that read out each white space and debug that oh yeah absolutely I I I can I can tell oh yeah absolutely I I I can I can tell oh yeah absolutely I I I can I can tell you I I uh I pass a couple of hours at you I I uh I pass a couple of hours at you I I uh I pass a couple of hours at once because yes exactly like that you once because yes exactly like that you once because yes exactly like that you hate yaml too then we are we're joined hate yaml too then we are we're joined hate yaml too then we are we're joined in our in our in our pre oh yeah absolutely but I mean yeah pre oh yeah absolutely but I mean yeah pre oh yeah absolutely but I mean yeah exactly it's there it's there we cannot exactly it's there it's there we cannot exactly it's there it's there we cannot do we cannot undo that I guess yeah yeah do we cannot undo that I guess yeah yeah do we cannot undo that I guess yeah yeah whes space is not good well thank you so whes space is not good well thank you so whes space is not good well thank you so much Dominic St Pierre for chatting with much Dominic St Pierre for chatting with much Dominic St Pierre for chatting with me today it's been just wonderful me today it's been just wonderful me today it's been just wonderful learning about uh your work and your learning about uh your work and your learning about uh your work and your Outreach and all the great stuff that Outreach and all the great stuff that Outreach and all the great stuff that you're doing online and uh folks can you're doing online and uh folks can you're doing online and uh folks can support you at go podcast. Dev and also support you at go podcast. Dev and also support you at go podcast. Dev and also check out your startup at kiwi palis check out your startup at kiwi palis check out your startup at kiwi palis kiwi kiwi kiwi p.com I'll put links in the show notes p.com I'll put links in the show notes p.com I'll put links in the show notes and then at Dominic ster.com you can and then at Dominic ster.com you can and then at Dominic ster.com you can check out his video courses as well on check out his video courses as well on check out his video courses as well on uh working with go thanks so much thank uh working with go thanks so much thank uh working with go thanks so much thank you Scott this has been another episode you Scott this has been another episode you Scott this has been another episode of Hansel minuts and we'll see you again of Hansel minuts and we'll see you again of Hansel minuts and we'll see you again next week [Music] [Music] a a a [Music]