Preparing for 9/11 trials inside Guantanamo | 60 Minutes Archive

60 Minutes Rewind 60 Minutes Rewind Brigadier General Mark Martins has one Brigadier General Mark Martins has one Brigadier General Mark Martins has one of the toughest missions there is in the of the toughest missions there is in the of the toughest missions there is in the war on terror, not on the battlefield, war on terror, not on the battlefield, war on terror, not on the battlefield, but in the courtroom of a special but in the courtroom of a special but in the courtroom of a special military commission. military commission. military commission. It will hold what's being called It will hold what's being called It will hold what's being called Al-Qaeda's Nuremberg, the first trial of Al-Qaeda's Nuremberg, the first trial of Al-Qaeda's Nuremberg, the first trial of those charged with plotting the attacks those charged with plotting the attacks those charged with plotting the attacks on 9/11 12 years ago. And as chief on 9/11 12 years ago. And as chief on 9/11 12 years ago. And as chief prosecutor, Martins will be asking for prosecutor, Martins will be asking for prosecutor, Martins will be asking for the death penalty. the death penalty. the death penalty. Pre-trial proceedings have begun and Pre-trial proceedings have begun and Pre-trial proceedings have begun and he's already taking fire because the he's already taking fire because the he's already taking fire because the five defendants were all subjected to five defendants were all subjected to five defendants were all subjected to widely condemned interrogation widely condemned interrogation widely condemned interrogation techniques used by the CIA, among them techniques used by the CIA, among them techniques used by the CIA, among them waterboarding, and because of where the waterboarding, and because of where the waterboarding, and because of where the trial will be held at the notorious trial will be held at the notorious trial will be held at the notorious military prison camp at Guantanamo Bay. military prison camp at Guantanamo Bay. military prison camp at Guantanamo Bay. Since Congress passed a law banning the Since Congress passed a law banning the Since Congress passed a law banning the defendants from setting foot on US soil, defendants from setting foot on US soil, defendants from setting foot on US soil, everyone involved in the case has to go everyone involved in the case has to go everyone involved in the case has to go there. Every 6 weeks for the last year and a Every 6 weeks for the last year and a half, General Martins and his team of half, General Martins and his team of half, General Martins and his team of prosecutors, defense lawyers, bailiffs, prosecutors, defense lawyers, bailiffs, prosecutors, defense lawyers, bailiffs, interpreters, about 250 people in all, interpreters, about 250 people in all, interpreters, about 250 people in all, are airlifted aboard a government are airlifted aboard a government are airlifted aboard a government charter to the US Naval Base at charter to the US Naval Base at charter to the US Naval Base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba at a cost of Guantanamo Bay, Cuba at a cost of Guantanamo Bay, Cuba at a cost of $90,000 a flight.

$90,000 a flight. $90,000 a flight. >> Hello everyone and welcome back to >> Hello everyone and welcome back to >> Hello everyone and welcome back to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, pearl of the Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, pearl of the Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, pearl of the Antilles. Antilles. Antilles. >> When the trial begins more than a year >> When the trial begins more than a year >> When the trial begins more than a year from now, it'll be the biggest war from now, it'll be the biggest war from now, it'll be the biggest war crimes tribunal since Nuremberg and much crimes tribunal since Nuremberg and much crimes tribunal since Nuremberg and much of the burden rests on General Martins of the burden rests on General Martins of the burden rests on General Martins shoulders. shoulders. shoulders. >> So when when it's a military tribunal, >> So when when it's a military tribunal, >> So when when it's a military tribunal, >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> um or commission, how is it different >> um or commission, how is it different >> um or commission, how is it different from a civilian proceeding? from a civilian proceeding? from a civilian proceeding? >> The similarities really swamp the >> The similarities really swamp the >> The similarities really swamp the differences. I mean, it's there's the differences. I mean, it's there's the differences. I mean, it's there's the accused is presumed innocent, the accused is presumed innocent, the accused is presumed innocent, the prosecution must prove guilt beyond prosecution must prove guilt beyond prosecution must prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt. reasonable doubt. reasonable doubt. >> General Martins knows a lot's at stake. >> General Martins knows a lot's at stake. >> General Martins knows a lot's at stake. The 9/11 defendants must be seen as The 9/11 defendants must be seen as The 9/11 defendants must be seen as getting a fair and legitimate hearing. getting a fair and legitimate hearing. getting a fair and legitimate hearing. >> We've got to ensure that what we do in >> We've got to ensure that what we do in >> We've got to ensure that what we do in these cases these cases these cases is justice and is justice and is justice and can't be accused of being vengeance. And can't be accused of being vengeance. And can't be accused of being vengeance. And that's that's a great challenge. that's that's a great challenge. that's that's a great challenge. >> Now, we have talked to some of the >> Now, we have talked to some of the >> Now, we have talked to some of the defense attorneys defense attorneys defense attorneys and they've told us it's a show trial. and they've told us it's a show trial. and they've told us it's a show trial. It's a charade. It's a charade. It's a charade. >> Well, I mean, I don't think the test of >> Well, I mean, I don't think the test of >> Well, I mean, I don't think the test of any system is what the defense counsel any system is what the defense counsel any system is what the defense counsel say about it.

say about it. say about it. >> But hard as he tries to ensure that it's >> But hard as he tries to ensure that it's >> But hard as he tries to ensure that it's seen as a fair trial, he keeps running seen as a fair trial, he keeps running seen as a fair trial, he keeps running into one obstacle after the next, into one obstacle after the next, into one obstacle after the next, starting with the reputation of the starting with the reputation of the starting with the reputation of the venue itself, Guantanamo Bay, where 164 venue itself, Guantanamo Bay, where 164 venue itself, Guantanamo Bay, where 164 detainees sit in cells, most of them for detainees sit in cells, most of them for detainees sit in cells, most of them for nearly 12 years. nearly 12 years. nearly 12 years. And except for the 9/11 five, most have And except for the 9/11 five, most have And except for the 9/11 five, most have not been charged. One of them cried out not been charged. One of them cried out not been charged. One of them cried out when he saw our cameras. when he saw our cameras. when he saw our cameras. >> Please, we are tired. Even you leave us >> Please, we are tired. Even you leave us >> Please, we are tired. Even you leave us to die in peace. to die in peace. to die in peace. Or either tell the world the truth. Let Or either tell the world the truth. Let Or either tell the world the truth. Let the world hear what's happening. the world hear what's happening. the world hear what's happening. >> 12 years. >> 12 years. >> 12 years. >> They >> They >> They >> With no charges. >> With no charges. >> With no charges. >> Uh that's one of the reasons I have a >> Uh that's one of the reasons I have a >> Uh that's one of the reasons I have a sense of urgency to try everybody that sense of urgency to try everybody that sense of urgency to try everybody that we can try. we can try. we can try. >> Does it in any way taint what you're >> Does it in any way taint what you're >> Does it in any way taint what you're doing? doing? doing? >> I wouldn't characterize it as taint. I >> I wouldn't characterize it as taint. I >> I wouldn't characterize it as taint. I believe that it influences people's believe that it influences people's believe that it influences people's perceptions. perceptions. perceptions. >> Another thing that influences >> Another thing that influences >> Another thing that influences perceptions is the elephant in the perceptions is the elephant in the perceptions is the elephant in the courtroom, the question of torture.

courtroom, the question of torture. courtroom, the question of torture. All five of the 9/11 defendants were All five of the 9/11 defendants were All five of the 9/11 defendants were held incommunicado for years at CIA held incommunicado for years at CIA held incommunicado for years at CIA black sites, where they were subjected black sites, where they were subjected black sites, where they were subjected to harsh interrogation techniques. to harsh interrogation techniques. to harsh interrogation techniques. They were legal at the time, but have They were legal at the time, but have They were legal at the time, but have since been banned by the Obama since been banned by the Obama since been banned by the Obama administration. administration. administration. Walid bin Attash attorney Cheryl Bormann Walid bin Attash attorney Cheryl Bormann Walid bin Attash attorney Cheryl Bormann says she's not allowed to talk about the says she's not allowed to talk about the says she's not allowed to talk about the interrogations because they've been interrogations because they've been interrogations because they've been classified. classified. classified. >> Was your client waterboarded? >> Was your client waterboarded? >> Was your client waterboarded? >> I can't answer that question. The >> I can't answer that question. The >> I can't answer that question. The proposed protective order bans me from proposed protective order bans me from proposed protective order bans me from telling you anything I know about what telling you anything I know about what telling you anything I know about what happened to my client beginning from the happened to my client beginning from the happened to my client beginning from the moment of his capture in 2003 until the moment of his capture in 2003 until the moment of his capture in 2003 until the moment that he landed in Guantanamo Bay moment that he landed in Guantanamo Bay moment that he landed in Guantanamo Bay in 2006. in 2006. in 2006. >> So, if you were to tell me that he was >> So, if you were to tell me that he was >> So, if you were to tell me that he was subjected to a specific harsh subjected to a specific harsh subjected to a specific harsh interrogation technique, interrogation technique, interrogation technique, you would be breaking a law? You would you would be breaking a law? You would you would be breaking a law? You would be convicted of something? be convicted of something? be convicted of something? >> be prosecuted and imprisoned for I >> be prosecuted and imprisoned for I >> be prosecuted and imprisoned for I believe up to 30 years. believe up to 30 years. believe up to 30 years. >> This is not a system that is set up to >> This is not a system that is set up to >> This is not a system that is set up to deliver justice.

deliver justice. deliver justice. >> David Nevin represents Khalid Sheikh >> David Nevin represents Khalid Sheikh >> David Nevin represents Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, KSM, known as the architect of Mohammed, KSM, known as the architect of Mohammed, KSM, known as the architect of 9/11. 9/11. 9/11. Considering that KSM has admitted to the Considering that KSM has admitted to the Considering that KSM has admitted to the worst terrorist attack on US soil, you worst terrorist attack on US soil, you worst terrorist attack on US soil, you would think the case might be open and would think the case might be open and would think the case might be open and shut. shut. shut. But part of the problem is that he was But part of the problem is that he was But part of the problem is that he was waterboarded 183 times in 1 month. waterboarded 183 times in 1 month. waterboarded 183 times in 1 month. Nevin filed this declaration detailing Nevin filed this declaration detailing Nevin filed this declaration detailing the treatment of his client, but after the treatment of his client, but after the treatment of his client, but after the sensors got through with it, this is the sensors got through with it, this is the sensors got through with it, this is all that made it into the public record. all that made it into the public record. all that made it into the public record. >> Think about this for a minute. The >> Think about this for a minute. The >> Think about this for a minute. The government says they can't talk publicly government says they can't talk publicly government says they can't talk publicly about what happened to them because it's about what happened to them because it's about what happened to them because it's classified. If the government didn't classified. If the government didn't classified. If the government didn't want to reveal its secrets to them, it want to reveal its secrets to them, it want to reveal its secrets to them, it shouldn't have tortured them. And yet shouldn't have tortured them. And yet shouldn't have tortured them. And yet they the the this information is they the the this information is they the the this information is classified. classified. classified. >> were trying to stop the next terrorist >> were trying to stop the next terrorist >> were trying to stop the next terrorist attack. attack. attack. They're not intentionally all totally They're not intentionally all totally They're not intentionally all totally evil. evil. evil. >> Right? >> Right? >> Right? >> No, of course not. >> No, of course not. >> No, of course not. >> Good intentions pave the road to hell >> Good intentions pave the road to hell >> Good intentions pave the road to hell though, right? though, right? though, right? >> What about statements KSM made during >> What about statements KSM made during >> What about statements KSM made during the waterboarding?

the waterboarding? the waterboarding? The law says any evidence obtained The law says any evidence obtained The law says any evidence obtained through harsh interrogation techniques through harsh interrogation techniques through harsh interrogation techniques is inadmissible, but there's a loophole. is inadmissible, but there's a loophole. is inadmissible, but there's a loophole. >> It is possible for a voluntary statement >> It is possible for a voluntary statement >> It is possible for a voluntary statement to be made to be made to be made after a passage of time in a different after a passage of time in a different after a passage of time in a different location, perhaps, with different location, perhaps, with different location, perhaps, with different questioners. questioners. questioners. >> And so, once the CIA's harsh >> And so, once the CIA's harsh >> And so, once the CIA's harsh interrogations of the five 9/11 interrogations of the five 9/11 interrogations of the five 9/11 defendants stopped, the FBI sent in a defendants stopped, the FBI sent in a defendants stopped, the FBI sent in a so-called clean team to question them so-called clean team to question them so-called clean team to question them all over again, but without coercion. all over again, but without coercion. all over again, but without coercion. And those statements are admissible. And those statements are admissible. And those statements are admissible. >> It's like Alice going down the rabbit >> It's like Alice going down the rabbit >> It's like Alice going down the rabbit hole, right? hole, right? hole, right? >> You torture them for 3 years. You keep >> You torture them for 3 years. You keep >> You torture them for 3 years. You keep them in captivity after you stop them in captivity after you stop them in captivity after you stop torturing them in a place like torturing them in a place like torturing them in a place like Guantanamo Bay. And then you send in Guantanamo Bay. And then you send in Guantanamo Bay. And then you send in agents from the same government that agents from the same government that agents from the same government that tortured them for 3 years to take tortured them for 3 years to take tortured them for 3 years to take statements. And then, if you're General statements. And then, if you're General statements. And then, if you're General Martins, you say, "Well, those are now Martins, you say, "Well, those are now Martins, you say, "Well, those are now clean." Guess what? They're not. clean." Guess what? They're not. clean." Guess what? They're not. >> I understand the I understand the >> I understand the I understand the >> I understand the I understand the argument. The people do not forfeit argument. The people do not forfeit argument. The people do not forfeit their chance for accountability their chance for accountability their chance for accountability because someone may have crossed the because someone may have crossed the because someone may have crossed the line or have coerced line or have coerced line or have coerced or subjected to harsh measures somebody or subjected to harsh measures somebody or subjected to harsh measures somebody who is in custody.

who is in custody. who is in custody. >> So, you're saying that it's unfair to >> So, you're saying that it's unfair to >> So, you're saying that it's unfair to the justice system. the justice system. the justice system. >> Well, the Not to be able to >> Well, the Not to be able to >> Well, the Not to be able to >> question these guys later. >> question these guys later. >> question these guys later. >> The point that I reject and that the law >> The point that I reject and that the law >> The point that I reject and that the law rejects is that there can be no rejects is that there can be no rejects is that there can be no voluntary statements voluntary statements voluntary statements following an instance of coercion. following an instance of coercion. following an instance of coercion. Justice requires that you look deeper, Justice requires that you look deeper, Justice requires that you look deeper, that you determine if the statement, that you determine if the statement, that you determine if the statement, even though there had been a prior even though there had been a prior even though there had been a prior instance, was nevertheless voluntary. instance, was nevertheless voluntary. instance, was nevertheless voluntary. And there can be such statements. And there can be such statements. And there can be such statements. >> Navy Commander Walter Ruiz is a military >> Navy Commander Walter Ruiz is a military >> Navy Commander Walter Ruiz is a military attorney representing Mustafa al Hasawi. attorney representing Mustafa al Hasawi. attorney representing Mustafa al Hasawi. >> General Martins, um I respect him. >> General Martins, um I respect him. >> General Martins, um I respect him. I believe he is a patriot. I believe I believe he is a patriot. I believe I believe he is a patriot. I believe that if our government asked him to sell that if our government asked him to sell that if our government asked him to sell ice to Eskimos, he would try his best if ice to Eskimos, he would try his best if ice to Eskimos, he would try his best if it believed it was in our nation's it believed it was in our nation's it believed it was in our nation's interest. interest. interest. But ultimately, you have a system where But ultimately, you have a system where But ultimately, you have a system where we've classified evidence of war crimes, we've classified evidence of war crimes, we've classified evidence of war crimes, where you have loopholes for torture and where you have loopholes for torture and where you have loopholes for torture and coercion. Every day we listen to the coercion. Every day we listen to the coercion. Every day we listen to the national anthem in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, national anthem in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, national anthem in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, but yet the Constitution has been kicked but yet the Constitution has been kicked but yet the Constitution has been kicked down the road and is persona non grata down the road and is persona non grata down the road and is persona non grata in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. >> Well, at the end of the day, I think we >> Well, at the end of the day, I think we >> Well, at the end of the day, I think we all have to look at each other and say, all have to look at each other and say, all have to look at each other and say, are we doing this? are we doing this? are we doing this? >> Your client, KSM, he admits that he was >> Your client, KSM, he admits that he was >> Your client, KSM, he admits that he was the mastermind of 9/11. He didn't wear a the mastermind of 9/11. He didn't wear a the mastermind of 9/11. He didn't wear a military uniform. He wasn't on a real, military uniform. He wasn't on a real, military uniform. He wasn't on a real, you know, traditional battlefield. He you know, traditional battlefield. He you know, traditional battlefield. He hid among civilians. This is a bad guy hid among civilians. This is a bad guy hid among civilians. This is a bad guy by his own confession. by his own confession. by his own confession. >> Yeah, you know, um Leslie >> Yeah, you know, um Leslie >> Yeah, you know, um Leslie >> You're not saying he's not the >> You're not saying he's not the >> You're not saying he's not the mastermind. mastermind. mastermind. >> Uh here's what I'm saying. I'm saying >> Uh here's what I'm saying. I'm saying >> Uh here's what I'm saying. I'm saying that in the United States, we have a that in the United States, we have a that in the United States, we have a process. We follow it. We've always process. We follow it. We've always process. We follow it. We've always followed it. We apply it to everyone followed it. We apply it to everyone followed it. We apply it to everyone except not now. except not now. except not now. >> There will be a lot of firsts in this >> There will be a lot of firsts in this >> There will be a lot of firsts in this trial by military commission. Given the trial by military commission. Given the trial by military commission. Given the CIA's tactics, the unique nature of the CIA's tactics, the unique nature of the CIA's tactics, the unique nature of the crime, and unprecedented legal questions crime, and unprecedented legal questions crime, and unprecedented legal questions that are now being fought over in that are now being fought over in that are now being fought over in pretrial motions at this high-security pretrial motions at this high-security pretrial motions at this high-security legal complex. legal complex. legal complex. This is the first time cameras were This is the first time cameras were This is the first time cameras were allowed to videotape where the trial allowed to videotape where the trial allowed to videotape where the trial will take place.

will take place. will take place. This is the courtroom where the first This is the courtroom where the first This is the courtroom where the first American war crimes trial is taking American war crimes trial is taking American war crimes trial is taking place since World War II. place since World War II. place since World War II. These tables are for the defendants, one These tables are for the defendants, one These tables are for the defendants, one each for the 9/11 five. each for the 9/11 five. each for the 9/11 five. And this is for Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, And this is for Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, And this is for Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the self-confessed mastermind of 9/11. the self-confessed mastermind of 9/11. the self-confessed mastermind of 9/11. He's defendant number one, as you can He's defendant number one, as you can He's defendant number one, as you can clearly see. clearly see. clearly see. And this is where he sits. He has his And this is where he sits. He has his And this is where he sits. He has his own screen to read court documents. And own screen to read court documents. And own screen to read court documents. And if he wants to hear the Arabic if he wants to hear the Arabic if he wants to hear the Arabic translation, it comes out through that translation, it comes out through that translation, it comes out through that box. box. box. While we were here, he appeared in court While we were here, he appeared in court While we were here, he appeared in court in a long, henna-dyed, red beard and a in a long, henna-dyed, red beard and a in a long, henna-dyed, red beard and a military camouflage jacket over a long military camouflage jacket over a long military camouflage jacket over a long white robe. white robe. white robe. He sat here quietly and calmly. If he He sat here quietly and calmly. If he He sat here quietly and calmly. If he had acted up, he could have been had acted up, he could have been had acted up, he could have been shackled. shackled. shackled. >> When court is in session, the defendants >> When court is in session, the defendants >> When court is in session, the defendants are transported from a secret facility are transported from a secret facility are transported from a secret facility on the base known as Camp Seven to these on the base known as Camp Seven to these on the base known as Camp Seven to these holding cells where they stay till holding cells where they stay till holding cells where they stay till they're escorted to the courtroom.

they're escorted to the courtroom. they're escorted to the courtroom. They're on the so-called black mile They're on the so-called black mile They're on the so-called black mile corridor beneath dark sniper meshing corridor beneath dark sniper meshing corridor beneath dark sniper meshing that camouflages the walkway. that camouflages the walkway. that camouflages the walkway. This is Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's holding This is Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's holding This is Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's holding cell, an 8 by 12-ft steel cell, an 8 by 12-ft steel cell, an 8 by 12-ft steel air-conditioned room with an arrow air-conditioned room with an arrow air-conditioned room with an arrow pointing toward Mecca for when he prays. pointing toward Mecca for when he prays. pointing toward Mecca for when he prays. The defendants are under constant The defendants are under constant The defendants are under constant surveillance, even their lawyers claim, surveillance, even their lawyers claim, surveillance, even their lawyers claim, when they're not supposed to be. Another when they're not supposed to be. Another when they're not supposed to be. Another complication. complication. complication. >> I'm meeting with my client in a room >> I'm meeting with my client in a room >> I'm meeting with my client in a room and up on the ceiling, like you would and up on the ceiling, like you would and up on the ceiling, like you would normally find it in a jail with a normally find it in a jail with a normally find it in a jail with a client, there's a smoke detector. And uh client, there's a smoke detector. And uh client, there's a smoke detector. And uh one day I'm sitting in there and um my one day I'm sitting in there and um my one day I'm sitting in there and um my client stops one of the correctional client stops one of the correctional client stops one of the correctional guards and says, guards and says, guards and says, "That's "That's "That's What is that? What is that? What is that? You're listening, aren't you?" And and You're listening, aren't you?" And and You're listening, aren't you?" And and the guard says, "Of course we're not the guard says, "Of course we're not the guard says, "Of course we're not listening. That's a smoke detector." listening. That's a smoke detector." listening. That's a smoke detector." >> She believed the guard but decided to >> She believed the guard but decided to >> She believed the guard but decided to look up the manufacturer of the smoke look up the manufacturer of the smoke look up the manufacturer of the smoke detector on Google. detector on Google. detector on Google. >> Google it and it turns out they only >> Google it and it turns out they only >> Google it and it turns out they only make listening devices that are intended make listening devices that are intended make listening devices that are intended to look like smoke detectors and other to look like smoke detectors and other to look like smoke detectors and other >> You find this out while you're in >> You find this out while you're in >> You find this out while you're in Guantanamo?

Guantanamo? Guantanamo? >> We find this out while >> We find this out while >> We find this out while >> While you're in Guantanamo? What? >> While you're in Guantanamo? What? >> While you're in Guantanamo? What? >> Motions were filed, witnesses were >> Motions were filed, witnesses were >> Motions were filed, witnesses were called, and while it was confirmed that called, and while it was confirmed that called, and while it was confirmed that the smoke detector actually was a the smoke detector actually was a the smoke detector actually was a listening device, the judge determined listening device, the judge determined listening device, the judge determined that General Martins and his team were that General Martins and his team were that General Martins and his team were not eavesdropping. not eavesdropping. not eavesdropping. But the defense lawyers suspect it was But the defense lawyers suspect it was But the defense lawyers suspect it was the CIA and they based that on something the CIA and they based that on something the CIA and they based that on something that happened this past January. that happened this past January. that happened this past January. >> I was speaking >> I was speaking >> I was speaking one day in the courtroom and making one day in the courtroom and making one day in the courtroom and making innocuous unclassified remarks and innocuous unclassified remarks and innocuous unclassified remarks and suddenly the red hockey light goes off. suddenly the red hockey light goes off. suddenly the red hockey light goes off. >> When the red hockey light went off, >> When the red hockey light went off, >> When the red hockey light went off, everything stopped. That's only supposed everything stopped. That's only supposed everything stopped. That's only supposed to happen when classified information is to happen when classified information is to happen when classified information is disclosed and the only ones authorized disclosed and the only ones authorized disclosed and the only ones authorized to activate the light are the judge or to activate the light are the judge or to activate the light are the judge or the court's security officer. the court's security officer. the court's security officer. >> I looked at the judge and I looked at >> I looked at the judge and I looked at >> I looked at the judge and I looked at his court security officer. They're both his court security officer. They're both his court security officer. They're both of them looked at each other as if to of them looked at each other as if to of them looked at each other as if to say, "I didn't do it. Did you?" say, "I didn't do it. Did you?" say, "I didn't do it. Did you?" >> So, who who did it?

>> So, who who did it? >> So, who who did it? >> I don't know. >> I don't know. >> I don't know. >> You actually don't know to this day who >> You actually don't know to this day who >> You actually don't know to this day who did it? Were you horrified? did it? Were you horrified? did it? Were you horrified? >> I don't get horrified or not. I stay in >> I don't get horrified or not. I stay in >> I don't get horrified or not. I stay in that band between grim determination and that band between grim determination and that band between grim determination and tempered optimism. tempered optimism. tempered optimism. >> The judge found out who did it, the CIA. >> The judge found out who did it, the CIA. >> The judge found out who did it, the CIA. Wait a minute. Are they in the Wait a minute. Are they in the Wait a minute. Are they in the courtroom? courtroom? courtroom? >> No, they're not in the courtroom. >> No, they're not in the courtroom. >> No, they're not in the courtroom. >> Where are they? >> Where are they? >> Where are they? >> I don't know. >> I don't know. >> I don't know. I'd like to know. I'd like to know. I'd like to know. >> So, wait. >> So, wait. >> So, wait. >> I've demanded to know, but the >> I've demanded to know, but the >> I've demanded to know, but the government won't tell me. government won't tell me. government won't tell me. >> See, do you think that the CIA >> See, do you think that the CIA >> See, do you think that the CIA has a any kind of right to keep has a any kind of right to keep has a any kind of right to keep listening because these were terrorists listening because these were terrorists listening because these were terrorists or they're charging that they were or they're charging that they were or they're charging that they were terrorists? terrorists? terrorists? They believe that these guys are bad They believe that these guys are bad They believe that these guys are bad guys who did a a dastardly deed. guys who did a a dastardly deed. guys who did a a dastardly deed. >> The Constitution get guarantees >> The Constitution get guarantees >> The Constitution get guarantees everybody certain rights and one of them everybody certain rights and one of them everybody certain rights and one of them is that you don't listen in on the is that you don't listen in on the is that you don't listen in on the lawyers in a serious capital case. You lawyers in a serious capital case. You lawyers in a serious capital case. You just don't do it. just don't do it. just don't do it. >> The defense teams say that the CIA has a >> The defense teams say that the CIA has a >> The defense teams say that the CIA has a completely different agenda from yours. completely different agenda from yours. completely different agenda from yours. >> We are going to do these trials fairly.

>> We are going to do these trials fairly. >> We are going to do these trials fairly. All these allegations they can raise and All these allegations they can raise and All these allegations they can raise and we have a process to sort that out. we have a process to sort that out. we have a process to sort that out. >> You know, I've heard people say, "Look, >> You know, I've heard people say, "Look, >> You know, I've heard people say, "Look, he's he's trying he's he's trying he's he's trying KSM. Why are we contorting ourselves? KSM. Why are we contorting ourselves? KSM. Why are we contorting ourselves? These guys slaughtered 3,000 innocent These guys slaughtered 3,000 innocent These guys slaughtered 3,000 innocent people. This was not the battlefield. people. This was not the battlefield. people. This was not the battlefield. These were people going to work." These were people going to work." These were people going to work." >> Well, I mean I understand the point of >> Well, I mean I understand the point of >> Well, I mean I understand the point of view and the criticism. The law requires view and the criticism. The law requires view and the criticism. The law requires and justice requires the prosecution and justice requires the prosecution and justice requires the prosecution must present proof beyond a reasonable must present proof beyond a reasonable must present proof beyond a reasonable doubt before we hold someone guilty and doubt before we hold someone guilty and doubt before we hold someone guilty and we aim to dispense justice that we can we aim to dispense justice that we can we aim to dispense justice that we can we can be proud of.