Sculpting Evolution: Using genetic engineering to curb Lyme | 60 Minutes Archive

>> Biologist Charles Darwin began crafting >> Biologist Charles Darwin began crafting his theory of evolution on a trip to the his theory of evolution on a trip to the his theory of evolution on a trip to the Galapagos Islands where he discovered Galapagos Islands where he discovered Galapagos Islands where he discovered animals had developed unique traits that animals had developed unique traits that animals had developed unique traits that varied from island to island. Nearly two varied from island to island. Nearly two varied from island to island. Nearly two centuries later, on a different island, centuries later, on a different island, centuries later, on a different island, scientists aren't just observing scientists aren't just observing scientists aren't just observing evolution. They now have the technology evolution. They now have the technology evolution. They now have the technology to shape it. This past year, we met a to shape it. This past year, we met a to shape it. This past year, we met a team of modern-day Darwins on Nantucket, team of modern-day Darwins on Nantucket, team of modern-day Darwins on Nantucket, where they're hoping to use genetic where they're hoping to use genetic where they're hoping to use genetic engineering to reduce the transmission engineering to reduce the transmission engineering to reduce the transmission of Lyme disease, a tickborn illness of Lyme disease, a tickborn illness of Lyme disease, a tickborn illness found primarily in the Northeast and found primarily in the Northeast and found primarily in the Northeast and upper Midwest, but also throughout the upper Midwest, but also throughout the upper Midwest, but also throughout the United States. The scientist's target United States. The scientist's target United States. The scientist's target may surprise you. It's not the deer may surprise you. It's not the deer may surprise you. It's not the deer often associated with the disease or often associated with the disease or often associated with the disease or even the ticks, but wild mice, the main even the ticks, but wild mice, the main even the ticks, but wild mice, the main carriers of lime. It's a firstofits-kind carriers of lime. It's a firstofits-kind carriers of lime. It's a firstofits-kind approach where scientists and locals are approach where scientists and locals are approach where scientists and locals are working together to decide whether to working together to decide whether to working together to decide whether to sculpt evolution. 30 miles off the coast of Cape Cod, 30 miles off the coast of Cape Cod, Massachusetts, is the island of Massachusetts, is the island of Massachusetts, is the island of Nantucket. A 14-m long, three-mile wide Nantucket. A 14-m long, three-mile wide Nantucket. A 14-m long, three-mile wide oasis known for its natural beauty, oasis known for its natural beauty, oasis known for its natural beauty, pristine shorelines, and protected pristine shorelines, and protected pristine shorelines, and protected landscape. But hidden is a scourge landscape. But hidden is a scourge landscape. But hidden is a scourge that's afflicted 15% of its residents.

that's afflicted 15% of its residents. that's afflicted 15% of its residents. The natural disaster in our area is not The natural disaster in our area is not The natural disaster in our area is not hurricanes or tornadoes or earthquakes. hurricanes or tornadoes or earthquakes. hurricanes or tornadoes or earthquakes. It is Lyme disease. It is the one plague It is Lyme disease. It is the one plague It is Lyme disease. It is the one plague that might be severe enough that that might be severe enough that that might be severe enough that communities might want to engineer a communities might want to engineer a communities might want to engineer a wild organism in order to get rid of it wild organism in order to get rid of it wild organism in order to get rid of it or at least reduce the level of line. or at least reduce the level of line. or at least reduce the level of line. Last October, deep in the island's Last October, deep in the island's Last October, deep in the island's brush, we found MIT associate professor brush, we found MIT associate professor brush, we found MIT associate professor Kevin Esfelt, a pioneer in genetic Kevin Esfelt, a pioneer in genetic Kevin Esfelt, a pioneer in genetic engineering, waving a white flag in engineering, waving a white flag in engineering, waving a white flag in search of ticks. search of ticks. search of ticks. >> So, we just grab it. >> So, we just grab it. >> So, we just grab it. >> These tiny vectors of Lyme disease were >> These tiny vectors of Lyme disease were >> These tiny vectors of Lyme disease were not hard to find. not hard to find. not hard to find. >> And we just pop it in. >> And we just pop it in. >> And we just pop it in. >> These are the big ones. Yeah, >> These are the big ones. Yeah, >> These are the big ones. Yeah, >> because these are largely adults. >> because these are largely adults. >> because these are largely adults. >> If the adults are this small, imagine >> If the adults are this small, imagine >> If the adults are this small, imagine the tiny tiny what are they called? the tiny tiny what are they called? the tiny tiny what are they called? Nymphs. Nymphs. Nymphs. >> Nymphs. Yeah. We often think of poppy >> Nymphs. Yeah. We often think of poppy >> Nymphs. Yeah. We often think of poppy seed sized. seed sized. seed sized. >> Esfelt's collaborator is Sam Telford, an >> Esfelt's collaborator is Sam Telford, an >> Esfelt's collaborator is Sam Telford, an epidemiologist at Tus University who's epidemiologist at Tus University who's epidemiologist at Tus University who's been studying ticks on Nantucket for the been studying ticks on Nantucket for the been studying ticks on Nantucket for the last 40 years. last 40 years. last 40 years. >> There's a 50% chance, maybe more, that >> There's a 50% chance, maybe more, that >> There's a 50% chance, maybe more, that this is actually carrying Lyme disease.

this is actually carrying Lyme disease. this is actually carrying Lyme disease. >> But you're not afraid because it has to >> But you're not afraid because it has to >> But you're not afraid because it has to be be be >> it has to be attached >> it has to be attached >> it has to be attached >> attached >> attached >> attached >> for for more than 24 hours, >> for for more than 24 hours, >> for for more than 24 hours, >> right? To to infect you. >> right? To to infect you. >> right? To to infect you. >> That's correct. These guys will swell >> That's correct. These guys will swell >> That's correct. These guys will swell up. up. up. >> Yeah. 50 to 100 times that size with >> Yeah. 50 to 100 times that size with >> Yeah. 50 to 100 times that size with blood, you know, that becomes that that blood, you know, that becomes that that blood, you know, that becomes that that big. big. big. >> And that's how you know when they're >> And that's how you know when they're >> And that's how you know when they're engorged, you know that they've been engorged, you know that they've been engorged, you know that they've been feeding on you. If you see it that big, feeding on you. If you see it that big, feeding on you. If you see it that big, then you're in trouble. then you're in trouble. then you're in trouble. >> The scientists aren't here just to >> The scientists aren't here just to >> The scientists aren't here just to collect ticks. They're interested in collect ticks. They're interested in collect ticks. They're interested in this critter. this critter. this critter. >> This is a wild mouse. >> This is a wild mouse. >> This is a wild mouse. >> This is a wild whitefooted mouse. >> This is a wild whitefooted mouse. >> This is a wild whitefooted mouse. >> And you've tagged it? >> And you've tagged it? >> And you've tagged it? >> I've tagged it. So, uh, when I come back >> I've tagged it. So, uh, when I come back >> I've tagged it. So, uh, when I come back in April or May of next year, we get an in April or May of next year, we get an in April or May of next year, we get an idea of what overwintering success is. idea of what overwintering success is. idea of what overwintering success is. >> Telford is tracking the mouse population >> Telford is tracking the mouse population >> Telford is tracking the mouse population on Nantucket as part of a novel project. on Nantucket as part of a novel project. on Nantucket as part of a novel project. The scientists want to use genetic The scientists want to use genetic The scientists want to use genetic engineering to interrupt a cycle of engineering to interrupt a cycle of engineering to interrupt a cycle of infection necessary for Lyme disease to infection necessary for Lyme disease to infection necessary for Lyme disease to flourish. White-footed mice are the main flourish. White-footed mice are the main flourish. White-footed mice are the main host of Lyme bacteria. When an host of Lyme bacteria. When an host of Lyme bacteria. When an uninfected tick bites an infected mouse, uninfected tick bites an infected mouse, uninfected tick bites an infected mouse, the bacteria transfer to the tick. When the bacteria transfer to the tick. When the bacteria transfer to the tick. When that infected tick then bites an that infected tick then bites an that infected tick then bites an uninfected mouse, the cycle continues.

uninfected mouse, the cycle continues. uninfected mouse, the cycle continues. Deer don't get infected, but they help Deer don't get infected, but they help Deer don't get infected, but they help spread the disease because ticks embed spread the disease because ticks embed spread the disease because ticks embed on them to feed, then reproduce with a on them to feed, then reproduce with a on them to feed, then reproduce with a single female tick laying as many as single female tick laying as many as single female tick laying as many as 2,000 eggs. Here's Espelt and Telford's 2,000 eggs. Here's Espelt and Telford's 2,000 eggs. Here's Espelt and Telford's big idea. Change the genetic makeup of big idea. Change the genetic makeup of big idea. Change the genetic makeup of the mice so they're immune to lime. That the mice so they're immune to lime. That the mice so they're immune to lime. That way, the ticks that bite them won't get way, the ticks that bite them won't get way, the ticks that bite them won't get infected. You don't have to kill the infected. You don't have to kill the infected. You don't have to kill the mouse in order to interrupt the cycle. mouse in order to interrupt the cycle. mouse in order to interrupt the cycle. >> It'd be so much more economical and >> It'd be so much more economical and >> It'd be so much more economical and straightforward to just go out and straightforward to just go out and straightforward to just go out and poison all the mice, right? Get rid of poison all the mice, right? Get rid of poison all the mice, right? Get rid of the mice. But then there's a whole food the mice. But then there's a whole food the mice. But then there's a whole food chain that might depend on these mice chain that might depend on these mice chain that might depend on these mice that would be impacted. The dream is that would be impacted. The dream is that would be impacted. The dream is that we can use new technologies to that we can use new technologies to that we can use new technologies to ensure that wild creatures can live in ensure that wild creatures can live in ensure that wild creatures can live in peace, playing their normal ecological peace, playing their normal ecological peace, playing their normal ecological role, but without causing disease that role, but without causing disease that role, but without causing disease that make people suffer. make people suffer. make people suffer. >> Come on in, money. >> Come on in, money. >> Come on in, money. >> If Esfeld's dream becomes a reality, >> If Esfeld's dream becomes a reality, >> If Esfeld's dream becomes a reality, >> 80-year-old Dr. Timothy Leprey might >> 80-year-old Dr. Timothy Leprey might >> 80-year-old Dr. Timothy Leprey might finally be able to retire.

finally be able to retire. finally be able to retire. >> So, how did you get Lyme disease, do you >> So, how did you get Lyme disease, do you >> So, how did you get Lyme disease, do you think, Winnie? Uh, was it because of the think, Winnie? Uh, was it because of the think, Winnie? Uh, was it because of the tape right here? tape right here? tape right here? >> Over the past 40 years, he's been the >> Over the past 40 years, he's been the >> Over the past 40 years, he's been the island's emergency room head, soul island's emergency room head, soul island's emergency room head, soul surgeon, even its medical examiner. surgeon, even its medical examiner. surgeon, even its medical examiner. Today, Dr. Lepri runs the only private Today, Dr. Lepri runs the only private Today, Dr. Lepri runs the only private practice on Nantucket, where he treats practice on Nantucket, where he treats practice on Nantucket, where he treats dozens of patients with Lyme disease dozens of patients with Lyme disease dozens of patients with Lyme disease each year. each year. each year. >> Follow my finger. >> Follow my finger. >> Follow my finger. >> And yes, that's a giant tick in his >> And yes, that's a giant tick in his >> And yes, that's a giant tick in his waiting room. Being in private practice, waiting room. Being in private practice, waiting room. Being in private practice, it is u while not well paid. Uh it is u while not well paid. Uh it is u while not well paid. Uh >> you get paid in like what? Chickens and >> you get paid in like what? Chickens and >> you get paid in like what? Chickens and donuts and donuts and donuts and >> we prefer lobsters. >> we prefer lobsters. >> we prefer lobsters. >> Lobsters, clams, and scallops. >> Lobsters, clams, and scallops. >> Lobsters, clams, and scallops. >> But you'll take you'll take anything, >> But you'll take you'll take anything, >> But you'll take you'll take anything, right? right? right? >> I will take anything. >> I will take anything. >> I will take anything. >> Come on down, Shauna. >> Come on down, Shauna. >> Come on down, Shauna. >> Lyme disease can be treated with >> Lyme disease can be treated with >> Lyme disease can be treated with antibiotics. But if left untreated, the antibiotics. But if left untreated, the antibiotics. But if left untreated, the infection can spread to the heart, infection can spread to the heart, infection can spread to the heart, joints, and nervous system, as it did joints, and nervous system, as it did joints, and nervous system, as it did for 33-year-old Shauna Aspent.

for 33-year-old Shauna Aspent. for 33-year-old Shauna Aspent. >> My body hurts all the time. Okay. >> My body hurts all the time. Okay. >> My body hurts all the time. Okay. >> I don't know if that's from my limes >> I don't know if that's from my limes >> I don't know if that's from my limes disease or what. disease or what. disease or what. >> My neck is stiff. My ankles are sore, >> My neck is stiff. My ankles are sore, >> My neck is stiff. My ankles are sore, and my hips. and my hips. and my hips. >> Aspagnosed >> Aspagnosed >> Aspagnosed with lime when she was 10 years old. A with lime when she was 10 years old. A with lime when she was 10 years old. A few years later, the left side of her few years later, the left side of her few years later, the left side of her face stopped moving. A residual effect face stopped moving. A residual effect face stopped moving. A residual effect from the disease is still noticeable from the disease is still noticeable from the disease is still noticeable today. today. today. >> Let's see your smile. >> Let's see your smile. >> Let's see your smile. >> It's still a little off. And then if I >> It's still a little off. And then if I >> It's still a little off. And then if I >> Yeah. No, it's >> Yeah. No, it's >> Yeah. No, it's >> raise my eyebrows. It just doesn't move. >> raise my eyebrows. It just doesn't move. >> raise my eyebrows. It just doesn't move. >> We see people with facial policies. We >> We see people with facial policies. We >> We see people with facial policies. We see little kids with swollen knees. We see little kids with swollen knees. We see little kids with swollen knees. We see people with lime rashes. So, it see people with lime rashes. So, it see people with lime rashes. So, it alters people's behavior and activities. alters people's behavior and activities. alters people's behavior and activities. The problem on Nantucket can be traced The problem on Nantucket can be traced The problem on Nantucket can be traced back to 1926 back to 1926 back to 1926 when locals voted to import two female when locals voted to import two female when locals voted to import two female deer to the island to give a lone buck deer to the island to give a lone buck deer to the island to give a lone buck company. As the deer population grew, so company. As the deer population grew, so company. As the deer population grew, so did the ticks. On top of that, by the did the ticks. On top of that, by the did the ticks. On top of that, by the 1950s, half the land on the island was 1950s, half the land on the island was 1950s, half the land on the island was put into conservation. The untamed brush put into conservation. The untamed brush put into conservation. The untamed brush and wild grasslands create an ideal and wild grasslands create an ideal and wild grasslands create an ideal ecosystem for limes host to thrive. We ecosystem for limes host to thrive. We ecosystem for limes host to thrive. We have a problem with tick born disease have a problem with tick born disease have a problem with tick born disease because we engineered the environment to because we engineered the environment to because we engineered the environment to maximize the number of ticks and to maximize the number of ticks and to maximize the number of ticks and to maximize the number of mice that are the maximize the number of mice that are the maximize the number of mice that are the best host of Lyme disease. And it came best host of Lyme disease. And it came best host of Lyme disease. And it came back and bit us literally. A trip at age back and bit us literally. A trip at age back and bit us literally. A trip at age 11 to the Gapagos Islands sparked 11 to the Gapagos Islands sparked 11 to the Gapagos Islands sparked Esfelt's lifelong obsession with Esfelt's lifelong obsession with Esfelt's lifelong obsession with evolution. In 2013, he was the first to evolution. In 2013, he was the first to evolution. In 2013, he was the first to propose that crisper, a revolutionary

propose that crisper, a revolutionary propose that crisper, a revolutionary technology that enables scientists to technology that enables scientists to technology that enables scientists to edit DNA, could be used to change a edit DNA, could be used to change a edit DNA, could be used to change a species genetics in perpetuity, hacking species genetics in perpetuity, hacking species genetics in perpetuity, hacking the laws of inheritance. the laws of inheritance. the laws of inheritance. >> I mean, it's not like we won a fitness >> I mean, it's not like we won a fitness >> I mean, it's not like we won a fitness advantage. advantage. advantage. >> This idea led to the project they call >> This idea led to the project they call >> This idea led to the project they call mice against ticks in the sculpting mice against ticks in the sculpting mice against ticks in the sculpting evolution lab Efelt runs at MIT. They're evolution lab Efelt runs at MIT. They're evolution lab Efelt runs at MIT. They're all LA. all LA. all LA. >> For the last nine years, he and >> For the last nine years, he and >> For the last nine years, he and researcher Joanna Buckthal have been researcher Joanna Buckthal have been researcher Joanna Buckthal have been studying whether they could add a gene studying whether they could add a gene studying whether they could add a gene for an antibbody that prevents Lyme for an antibbody that prevents Lyme for an antibbody that prevents Lyme infection to a mouse embryo that, as we infection to a mouse embryo that, as we infection to a mouse embryo that, as we see here, has progressed into two cells. see here, has progressed into two cells. see here, has progressed into two cells. >> More things to talk about. >> More things to talk about. >> More things to talk about. >> Is it going to be into one of those >> Is it going to be into one of those >> Is it going to be into one of those cells or both of them? cells or both of them? cells or both of them? >> So, our technique involves injecting >> So, our technique involves injecting >> So, our technique involves injecting both cells to maximize the likelihood both cells to maximize the likelihood both cells to maximize the likelihood that we get the antibbody gene in their that we get the antibbody gene in their that we get the antibbody gene in their DNA. Buckthal and embryologist Zach Hill DNA. Buckthal and embryologist Zach Hill DNA. Buckthal and embryologist Zach Hill showed us how they genetically engineer showed us how they genetically engineer showed us how they genetically engineer lab mice. lab mice. lab mice. >> He's going to actually inject through >> He's going to actually inject through >> He's going to actually inject through the plasma membrane and into the nucleus the plasma membrane and into the nucleus the plasma membrane and into the nucleus for both of these cells. for both of these cells. for both of these cells. >> How are you at darts?

>> How are you at darts? >> How are you at darts? >> Not very good. >> Not very good. >> Not very good. >> But you're going to hit better at this. >> But you're going to hit better at this. >> But you're going to hit better at this. >> You're going to hit the center of this. >> You're going to hit the center of this. >> You're going to hit the center of this. >> Oh, yeah. Okay. So, I already have an >> Oh, yeah. Okay. So, I already have an >> Oh, yeah. Okay. So, I already have an embryo set up on the on the dish here. embryo set up on the on the dish here. embryo set up on the on the dish here. So, I'm just trying to find the nucleus So, I'm just trying to find the nucleus So, I'm just trying to find the nucleus here. here. here. >> It is amazing to see this. >> It is amazing to see this. >> It is amazing to see this. So that little burst that you can see in So that little burst that you can see in So that little burst that you can see in the nucleus is when he's actually the nucleus is when he's actually the nucleus is when he's actually injecting the genome engineering tools injecting the genome engineering tools injecting the genome engineering tools directly into the nucleus where the DNA directly into the nucleus where the DNA directly into the nucleus where the DNA is. is. is. >> The injection mix contains both the >> The injection mix contains both the >> The injection mix contains both the antibbody gene and crisper which acts antibbody gene and crisper which acts antibbody gene and crisper which acts like molecular scissors. After crisper like molecular scissors. After crisper like molecular scissors. After crisper finds and cuts the targeted area of DNA, finds and cuts the targeted area of DNA, finds and cuts the targeted area of DNA, the cell inserts the gene into the the cell inserts the gene into the the cell inserts the gene into the mouse's genetic code. When this mouse is mouse's genetic code. When this mouse is mouse's genetic code. When this mouse is born, it will be immune to Lyme disease born, it will be immune to Lyme disease born, it will be immune to Lyme disease and so will its children. and so will its children. and so will its children. >> If I get a polio vaccine, my kids aren't >> If I get a polio vaccine, my kids aren't >> If I get a polio vaccine, my kids aren't going to be immune to polio unless they going to be immune to polio unless they going to be immune to polio unless they get the vaccine, too. get the vaccine, too. get the vaccine, too. >> That's exactly right. So, this is a >> That's exactly right. So, this is a >> That's exactly right. So, this is a heritable immunization. heritable immunization. heritable immunization. >> What do you mean by that? >> What do you mean by that? >> What do you mean by that? >> What we're actually doing is we're >> What we're actually doing is we're >> What we're actually doing is we're encoding immunity so that that immunity encoding immunity so that that immunity encoding immunity so that that immunity is passed on generationally and every is passed on generationally and every is passed on generationally and every mouse that gets the antibbody gene is mouse that gets the antibbody gene is mouse that gets the antibbody gene is actually immune. Typical standard actually immune. Typical standard actually immune. Typical standard evolution happened very slowly, right?

evolution happened very slowly, right? evolution happened very slowly, right? Over thousands, maybe millions of years. Over thousands, maybe millions of years. Over thousands, maybe millions of years. Are you speeding up evolution here? We Are you speeding up evolution here? We Are you speeding up evolution here? We are absolutely speeding up evolution and are absolutely speeding up evolution and are absolutely speeding up evolution and that's precisely why we have to be that's precisely why we have to be that's precisely why we have to be careful because we are doing things that careful because we are doing things that careful because we are doing things that couldn't happen naturally. The plan is couldn't happen naturally. The plan is couldn't happen naturally. The plan is to release thousands of engineered mice to release thousands of engineered mice to release thousands of engineered mice on Nantucket over time, starting during on Nantucket over time, starting during on Nantucket over time, starting during the winter months when the native mouse the winter months when the native mouse the winter months when the native mouse population is low. But first, Esfelt population is low. But first, Esfelt population is low. But first, Esfelt needs community buyin. needs community buyin. needs community buyin. To the flag of the United States of To the flag of the United States of To the flag of the United States of America, America, America, >> you're going to start. >> you're going to start. >> you're going to start. >> He chose Nantucket not only for its high >> He chose Nantucket not only for its high >> He chose Nantucket not only for its high rate of line, but also for its rate of line, but also for its rate of line, but also for its tight-knit, well-educated community with tight-knit, well-educated community with tight-knit, well-educated community with the tradition of town hall democracy. the tradition of town hall democracy. the tradition of town hall democracy. Um, I am going to call the October 23rd Um, I am going to call the October 23rd Um, I am going to call the October 23rd select board meeting to order at 5:30 select board meeting to order at 5:30 select board meeting to order at 5:30 p.m. p.m. p.m. >> We also need to start small. >> We also need to start small. >> We also need to start small. >> We saw this in action last fall when for >> We saw this in action last fall when for >> We saw this in action last fall when for the 10th time, the scientists presented the 10th time, the scientists presented the 10th time, the scientists presented their latest findings to locals. their latest findings to locals. their latest findings to locals. >> So, it appears that we have indeed >> So, it appears that we have indeed >> So, it appears that we have indeed produced the first heritably lymune produced the first heritably lymune produced the first heritably lymune laboratory mice capable of breaking the laboratory mice capable of breaking the laboratory mice capable of breaking the disease transmission cycle, disease transmission cycle, disease transmission cycle, >> followed by a public Q&A.

>> followed by a public Q&A. >> followed by a public Q&A. >> We have a huge population of field mice >> We have a huge population of field mice >> We have a huge population of field mice here. Shall we expect a larger here. Shall we expect a larger here. Shall we expect a larger population? population? population? >> Having had Lyme disease twice, I >> Having had Lyme disease twice, I >> Having had Lyme disease twice, I thought, what a cool idea, but mice are thought, what a cool idea, but mice are thought, what a cool idea, but mice are kind of the foundation of the food kind of the foundation of the food kind of the foundation of the food chain. So, tinkering with the food chain chain. So, tinkering with the food chain chain. So, tinkering with the food chain makes me a little cautious. makes me a little cautious. makes me a little cautious. >> How long before it's actually going to >> How long before it's actually going to >> How long before it's actually going to take effect and keep me from getting take effect and keep me from getting take effect and keep me from getting Lyme disease? Question. Lyme disease? Question. Lyme disease? Question. >> When you're in these meetings, what's >> When you're in these meetings, what's >> When you're in these meetings, what's that been like? Some people are really that been like? Some people are really that been like? Some people are really gung-ho about this. Some people have gung-ho about this. Some people have gung-ho about this. Some people have deep reservations, but what I found deep reservations, but what I found deep reservations, but what I found heartening about this and Nantucket in heartening about this and Nantucket in heartening about this and Nantucket in particular is that pretty much everyone particular is that pretty much everyone particular is that pretty much everyone agrees that this is how we should go agrees that this is how we should go agrees that this is how we should go about developing these kinds of about developing these kinds of about developing these kinds of technologies. That it should not just be technologies. That it should not just be technologies. That it should not just be scientists in their laboratories get a scientists in their laboratories get a scientists in their laboratories get a clever idea and then boom, it's there. clever idea and then boom, it's there. clever idea and then boom, it's there. >> Dr. Timothy Leprey says he's supportive >> Dr. Timothy Leprey says he's supportive >> Dr. Timothy Leprey says he's supportive of the proposal of the proposal of the proposal >> right here. >> right here. >> right here. But as an avid falconer, he wants more But as an avid falconer, he wants more But as an avid falconer, he wants more testing to be done to ensure there won't testing to be done to ensure there won't testing to be done to ensure there won't be unintended consequences to the be unintended consequences to the be unintended consequences to the island's ecosystem.

island's ecosystem. island's ecosystem. >> Could a change in in the field mouse >> Could a change in in the field mouse >> Could a change in in the field mouse lead to a change in the hawk? lead to a change in the hawk? lead to a change in the hawk? >> Well, that's the question. I don't think >> Well, that's the question. I don't think >> Well, that's the question. I don't think so, so, so, >> but we don't know. >> but we don't know. >> but we don't know. >> But I think that has to be shown. >> But I think that has to be shown. >> But I think that has to be shown. >> Do you worry about fooling around with >> Do you worry about fooling around with >> Do you worry about fooling around with mother nature? mother nature? mother nature? >> Absolutely. But on the other hand, I'm >> Absolutely. But on the other hand, I'm >> Absolutely. But on the other hand, I'm not terribly fond of mother nature if not terribly fond of mother nature if not terribly fond of mother nature if she's going to give my kids disease. All she's going to give my kids disease. All she's going to give my kids disease. All of technology is saying to mother of technology is saying to mother of technology is saying to mother nature, you're beautiful and we nature, you're beautiful and we nature, you're beautiful and we appreciate you very much and we need to appreciate you very much and we need to appreciate you very much and we need to conserve you, but we're not always happy conserve you, but we're not always happy conserve you, but we're not always happy with the way things work naturally and with the way things work naturally and with the way things work naturally and so we're going to change it. so we're going to change it. so we're going to change it. >> But in this case, you're changing the >> But in this case, you're changing the >> But in this case, you're changing the environment for everybody. This is, I environment for everybody. This is, I environment for everybody. This is, I agree, different because it's hard for agree, different because it's hard for agree, different because it's hard for individuals to opt out. And I think that individuals to opt out. And I think that individuals to opt out. And I think that means we need to do the science means we need to do the science means we need to do the science differently because we need to ensure differently because we need to ensure differently because we need to ensure that people have a voice early enough to that people have a voice early enough to that people have a voice early enough to actually influence the direction that actually influence the direction that actually influence the direction that the technology is developed. the technology is developed. the technology is developed. >> If federal and state regulators agree, >> If federal and state regulators agree, >> If federal and state regulators agree, the team plans to first release the the team plans to first release the the team plans to first release the engineered mice in a small field trial engineered mice in a small field trial engineered mice in a small field trial on a private island so they can better on a private island so they can better on a private island so they can better understand the ecological impacts before understand the ecological impacts before understand the ecological impacts before any potential experiments on Nantucket.

any potential experiments on Nantucket. any potential experiments on Nantucket. What is the home run for you? I think What is the home run for you? I think What is the home run for you? I think it's a field trial that works. It's it's a field trial that works. It's it's a field trial that works. It's something that allows us to dramatically something that allows us to dramatically something that allows us to dramatically reduce the the fraction of ticks that reduce the the fraction of ticks that reduce the the fraction of ticks that are infected that doesn't have anything are infected that doesn't have anything are infected that doesn't have anything obviously go wrong with the ecosystem. obviously go wrong with the ecosystem. obviously go wrong with the ecosystem. And then the community has a good And then the community has a good And then the community has a good discussion and then they decide. And I discussion and then they decide. And I discussion and then they decide. And I think there's benefits as we discussed think there's benefits as we discussed think there's benefits as we discussed even if they say no and then we walk even if they say no and then we walk even if they say no and then we walk away.