Wrongful Convictions | 60 Minutes Full Episodes

There may be no greater miscarriage of There may be no greater miscarriage of justice than to wrongfully convict a justice than to wrongfully convict a justice than to wrongfully convict a person of murder and sentence him to person of murder and sentence him to person of murder and sentence him to death. But that's exactly what happened death. But that's exactly what happened death. But that's exactly what happened to Glenn Ford. He spent nearly 30 years to Glenn Ford. He spent nearly 30 years to Glenn Ford. He spent nearly 30 years on death row in solitary confinement in on death row in solitary confinement in on death row in solitary confinement in Louisiana's notorious Angola prison Louisiana's notorious Angola prison Louisiana's notorious Angola prison until new evidence revealed he did not until new evidence revealed he did not until new evidence revealed he did not commit the murder. He was one of 149 commit the murder. He was one of 149 commit the murder. He was one of 149 inmates freed from death row since the inmates freed from death row since the inmates freed from death row since the US Supreme Court reinstated capital US Supreme Court reinstated capital US Supreme Court reinstated capital punishment in 1976. punishment in 1976. punishment in 1976. In all those exonerations, you have In all those exonerations, you have In all those exonerations, you have likely never heard a prosecutor admit likely never heard a prosecutor admit likely never heard a prosecutor admit his role and apologize for his mistakes his role and apologize for his mistakes his role and apologize for his mistakes in sending an innocent man to death row. in sending an innocent man to death row. in sending an innocent man to death row. But tonight, a prosecutor's confession. But tonight, a prosecutor's confession. But tonight, a prosecutor's confession. Marty Strad speaks of an injustice he Marty Strad speaks of an injustice he Marty Strad speaks of an injustice he calls so great it destroyed two lives. calls so great it destroyed two lives. calls so great it destroyed two lives. Glenn Ford's and his own. Glenn Ford's and his own. Glenn Ford's and his own. I ended up I ended up I ended up without anybody else's help putting a without anybody else's help putting a without anybody else's help putting a man on death row who didn't belong man on death row who didn't belong man on death row who didn't belong there. I mean, at the end of the day, there. I mean, at the end of the day, there. I mean, at the end of the day, beginning, end, middle, whatever you beginning, end, middle, whatever you beginning, end, middle, whatever you want to call it.

I did something that was very, very bad. I did something that was very, very bad. >> It was 1983, Shreveport, Louisiana, and >> It was 1983, Shreveport, Louisiana, and >> It was 1983, Shreveport, Louisiana, and 32year-old prosecutor Marty Straoud was 32year-old prosecutor Marty Straoud was 32year-old prosecutor Marty Straoud was assigned his first death penalty case. A assigned his first death penalty case. A assigned his first death penalty case. A local jeweler, Isidor Roseman, had been local jeweler, Isidor Roseman, had been local jeweler, Isidor Roseman, had been robbed and murdered. Quickly, Straoud robbed and murdered. Quickly, Straoud robbed and murdered. Quickly, Straoud zeroed in on Glenn Ford. Ford had done zeroed in on Glenn Ford. Ford had done zeroed in on Glenn Ford. Ford had done yard work for Roseman and was known to yard work for Roseman and was known to yard work for Roseman and was known to be a petty thief, and he admitted he had be a petty thief, and he admitted he had be a petty thief, and he admitted he had pawned some of the stolen jewelry. All pawned some of the stolen jewelry. All pawned some of the stolen jewelry. All that was enough to make him the primary that was enough to make him the primary that was enough to make him the primary suspect. Straoud knew a conviction would suspect. Straoud knew a conviction would suspect. Straoud knew a conviction would boost his career. I was arrogant, boost his career. I was arrogant, boost his career. I was arrogant, narcissistic, caught up in the culture of winning. caught up in the culture of winning. >> Win regardless of the facts, the truth. >> Win regardless of the facts, the truth. >> Win regardless of the facts, the truth. >> Looking back on it, yes, there was a >> Looking back on it, yes, there was a >> Looking back on it, yes, there was a question about other people's question about other people's question about other people's involvement. I should have followed up involvement. I should have followed up involvement. I should have followed up on that. on that. on that. I didn't do that. I didn't do that. I didn't do that. >> Why didn't you? >> Why didn't you? >> Why didn't you? >> I think my failure to say something can >> I think my failure to say something can >> I think my failure to say something can only be described as cowardness. only be described as cowardness. only be described as cowardness. I was a coward.

I was a coward. I was a coward. Straoud now admits the cards and the Straoud now admits the cards and the Straoud now admits the cards and the system were stacked against Ford from system were stacked against Ford from system were stacked against Ford from the beginning. His courtappointed the beginning. His courtappointed the beginning. His courtappointed lawyers had never practiced criminal lawyers had never practiced criminal lawyers had never practiced criminal law. law. law. >> What kind of law did they practice? >> What kind of law did they practice? >> What kind of law did they practice? >> One individual had general civil >> One individual had general civil >> One individual had general civil practice and another one did succession practice and another one did succession practice and another one did succession wills and estates wills and estates wills and estates >> in a murder in a murder trial in >> in a murder in a murder trial in >> in a murder in a murder trial in Louisiana where a man was on trial for Louisiana where a man was on trial for Louisiana where a man was on trial for his life. And at the time I saw nothing his life. And at the time I saw nothing his life. And at the time I saw nothing wrong with that. In fact, I snickered wrong with that. In fact, I snickered wrong with that. In fact, I snickered from time to time saying that, you know, from time to time saying that, you know, from time to time saying that, you know, this was going to be we were going to this was going to be we were going to this was going to be we were going to get through this case pretty quickly. get through this case pretty quickly. get through this case pretty quickly. >> Straoud's case wasn't strong. There was >> Straoud's case wasn't strong. There was >> Straoud's case wasn't strong. There was no physical evidence linking Ford to the no physical evidence linking Ford to the no physical evidence linking Ford to the crime. The main witness incriminating crime. The main witness incriminating crime. The main witness incriminating Ford admitted in court she'd been Ford admitted in court she'd been Ford admitted in court she'd been coerced by police to make up her coerced by police to make up her coerced by police to make up her testimony. But what was more important testimony. But what was more important testimony. But what was more important to Marty Straoud was the composition of to Marty Straoud was the composition of to Marty Straoud was the composition of the jury. the jury. the jury. >> There were no African-Americans on the >> There were no African-Americans on the >> There were no African-Americans on the jury. jury. jury. >> Was that by design? At the time of the case, we excluded At the time of the case, we excluded African-Americans because we I felt that African-Americans because we I felt that African-Americans because we I felt that they would not consider a death penalty they would not consider a death penalty they would not consider a death penalty where you had a black defendant and a where you had a black defendant and a where you had a black defendant and a white victim. I was the person that made white victim. I was the person that made white victim. I was the person that made the final call on the case with respect the final call on the case with respect the final call on the case with respect to jurors.

to jurors. to jurors. And I was And I was And I was I was wrong. I was wrong. I was wrong. >> Kat Parish, Louisiana is predominantly >> Kat Parish, Louisiana is predominantly >> Kat Parish, Louisiana is predominantly white. Yet 77% of those given the death white. Yet 77% of those given the death white. Yet 77% of those given the death penalty here in the last 40 years have penalty here in the last 40 years have penalty here in the last 40 years have been black. So when Glenn Ford walks been black. So when Glenn Ford walks been black. So when Glenn Ford walks into that courtroom, he's got a count of into that courtroom, he's got a count of into that courtroom, he's got a count of 0 and2 against him and a fast ball's 0 and2 against him and a fast ball's 0 and2 against him and a fast ball's coming right at his head for strike coming right at his head for strike coming right at his head for strike three. three. three. >> It took the jury less than 3 hours to >> It took the jury less than 3 hours to >> It took the jury less than 3 hours to find Glenn Ford guilty. Afterwards, find Glenn Ford guilty. Afterwards, find Glenn Ford guilty. Afterwards, Straoud and his legal team went out and Straoud and his legal team went out and Straoud and his legal team went out and celebrated, sending Ford to death row. celebrated, sending Ford to death row. celebrated, sending Ford to death row. >> I had drinks. I slapped people on the >> I had drinks. I slapped people on the >> I had drinks. I slapped people on the back. We sang songs. That was utterly back. We sang songs. That was utterly back. We sang songs. That was utterly disgusting. disgusting. disgusting. You know, you see mother justice You know, you see mother justice You know, you see mother justice sometimes and a statute and she has a sometimes and a statute and she has a sometimes and a statute and she has a blindfold over her eyes. She was crying blindfold over her eyes. She was crying blindfold over her eyes. She was crying that night that night that night because that wasn't justice. That wasn't justice at all. That wasn't justice at all. Ford was put in solitary confinement in Ford was put in solitary confinement in Ford was put in solitary confinement in one of the most infamous lockups in one of the most infamous lockups in one of the most infamous lockups in America, Angola. The maximum security America, Angola. The maximum security America, Angola. The maximum security prison has a well-earned reputation for prison has a well-earned reputation for prison has a well-earned reputation for harsh penalties and harsher conditions.

harsh penalties and harsher conditions. harsh penalties and harsher conditions. Summer temperatures on death row Summer temperatures on death row Summer temperatures on death row commonly exceed 104°. commonly exceed 104°. commonly exceed 104°. >> Death Row, you have maybe a 5 by 7 ft >> Death Row, you have maybe a 5 by 7 ft >> Death Row, you have maybe a 5 by 7 ft cell. cell. cell. You're in there every day. Uh you get You're in there every day. Uh you get You're in there every day. Uh you get out one hour a day to walk around and out one hour a day to walk around and out one hour a day to walk around and you come back in. You do that day after you come back in. You do that day after you come back in. You do that day after day, day, day, year after year. year after year. year after year. And that's it. He was basically thrown And that's it. He was basically thrown And that's it. He was basically thrown into a cell and forgotten. into a cell and forgotten. into a cell and forgotten. >> Ford would become one of the country's >> Ford would become one of the country's >> Ford would become one of the country's longest serving death row inmates. longest serving death row inmates. longest serving death row inmates. Straoud went on to a successful legal Straoud went on to a successful legal Straoud went on to a successful legal career. But all that changed when one of career. But all that changed when one of career. But all that changed when one of the initial suspects, a man named Jake the initial suspects, a man named Jake the initial suspects, a man named Jake Robinson, told a police informant he had Robinson, told a police informant he had Robinson, told a police informant he had killed the jeweler three decades killed the jeweler three decades killed the jeweler three decades earlier. Robinson is now in prison for earlier. Robinson is now in prison for earlier. Robinson is now in prison for another murder. A court review of the another murder. A court review of the another murder. A court review of the new information found there was credible new information found there was credible new information found there was credible evidence Glenn Ford was neither present evidence Glenn Ford was neither present evidence Glenn Ford was neither present at nor a participant in the robbery and at nor a participant in the robbery and at nor a participant in the robbery and murder of Isidor Roseman. Straoud's murder of Isidor Roseman. Straoud's murder of Isidor Roseman. Straoud's reaction when he was told Ford was reaction when he was told Ford was reaction when he was told Ford was innocent.

innocent. innocent. >> I thought I was going to throw up, >> I thought I was going to throw up, >> I thought I was going to throw up, nauseous as it and I felt my face was nauseous as it and I felt my face was nauseous as it and I felt my face was just turning like a fever. But then the just turning like a fever. But then the just turning like a fever. But then the horror of of knowing [snorts] that horror of of knowing [snorts] that horror of of knowing [snorts] that yours truly had caused him all this yours truly had caused him all this yours truly had caused him all this pain. pain. pain. >> Last year, Ford was exonerated and >> Last year, Ford was exonerated and >> Last year, Ford was exonerated and released from Angola. Pictures of his released from Angola. Pictures of his released from Angola. Pictures of his first free moments captured a rainbow in first free moments captured a rainbow in first free moments captured a rainbow in the sky and a smile on his face. the sky and a smile on his face. the sky and a smile on his face. >> What was it like to step outside the >> What was it like to step outside the >> What was it like to step outside the walls of that prison? walls of that prison? walls of that prison? >> Like stepping in a brand new world. >> Like stepping in a brand new world. >> Like stepping in a brand new world. Like [clears throat] breathing fresh air Like [clears throat] breathing fresh air Like [clears throat] breathing fresh air for the first time. for the first time. for the first time. It felt good. It felt good. It felt good. But that good feeling didn't last. But that good feeling didn't last. But that good feeling didn't last. Shortly after being released, Ford Shortly after being released, Ford Shortly after being released, Ford learned he had stage 4 lung cancer. learned he had stage 4 lung cancer. learned he had stage 4 lung cancer. Doctors told him he only had a few Doctors told him he only had a few Doctors told him he only had a few months to live. When we met Glenn Ford, months to live. When we met Glenn Ford, months to live. When we met Glenn Ford, he was living in New Orleans in a home he was living in New Orleans in a home he was living in New Orleans in a home for released prisoners. for released prisoners. for released prisoners. >> And that hurts >> And that hurts >> And that hurts >> just to swallow water. Felt like a >> just to swallow water. Felt like a >> just to swallow water. Felt like a flame.

flame. flame. >> You were on death row for 30 years. >> You were on death row for 30 years. >> You were on death row for 30 years. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Did you ever come close >> Did you ever come close >> Did you ever come close to an execution date? came within a week to an execution date? came within a week to an execution date? came within a week because the judge said he was retiring because the judge said he was retiring because the judge said he was retiring and he wanted to put a death date on me. and he wanted to put a death date on me. and he wanted to put a death date on me. >> Did Mr. Ford get justice in this case? >> Did Mr. Ford get justice in this case? >> Did Mr. Ford get justice in this case? >> I think he has uh gotten delayed >> I think he has uh gotten delayed >> I think he has uh gotten delayed justice. justice. justice. >> Dale Cox, the acting district attorney >> Dale Cox, the acting district attorney >> Dale Cox, the acting district attorney of Kado Parish, got Glenn Ford released of Kado Parish, got Glenn Ford released of Kado Parish, got Glenn Ford released after receiving the informants after receiving the informants after receiving the informants information. As he sees it, the justice information. As he sees it, the justice information. As he sees it, the justice system worked and no one, including system worked and no one, including system worked and no one, including Marty Strad, did anything wrong. I don't Marty Strad, did anything wrong. I don't Marty Strad, did anything wrong. I don't know what it is he's apologizing for. I know what it is he's apologizing for. I know what it is he's apologizing for. I think he's wrong in that the system did think he's wrong in that the system did think he's wrong in that the system did not fail, Mr. Ford. not fail, Mr. Ford. not fail, Mr. Ford. >> It did not. >> It did not. >> It did not. >> It did not. In fact, the system >> It did not. In fact, the system >> It did not. In fact, the system >> How can you say that? >> How can you say that? >> How can you say that? >> Because he's not on death row. And >> Because he's not on death row. And >> Because he's not on death row. And that's how I can say it. that's how I can say it. that's how I can say it. >> Getting out of prison after 30 years is >> Getting out of prison after 30 years is >> Getting out of prison after 30 years is justice. justice. justice. >> Well, it's better than dying there and >> Well, it's better than dying there and >> Well, it's better than dying there and it's better than being executed. There it's better than being executed. There it's better than being executed. There may be no more controversial prosecutor may be no more controversial prosecutor may be no more controversial prosecutor in the US than Dale Cox. Between 2010 in the US than Dale Cox. Between 2010 in the US than Dale Cox. Between 2010 and 2014, his Kado Parish office put and 2014, his Kado Parish office put and 2014, his Kado Parish office put more people on death row per capita than more people on death row per capita than more people on death row per capita than anywhere else in the country. I think anywhere else in the country. I think anywhere else in the country. I think society should be employing the death society should be employing the death society should be employing the death penalty more rather than less. But there penalty more rather than less. But there penalty more rather than less. But there have been 10 other inmates on death row have been 10 other inmates on death row have been 10 other inmates on death row in Louisiana who have been exonerated.

in Louisiana who have been exonerated. in Louisiana who have been exonerated. Clearly the system is not flawless. Are Clearly the system is not flawless. Are Clearly the system is not flawless. Are you sure that you've gotten it right all you sure that you've gotten it right all you sure that you've gotten it right all the time? the time? the time? >> I'm reasonably confident that that I've >> I'm reasonably confident that that I've >> I'm reasonably confident that that I've gotten it right. U gotten it right. U gotten it right. U >> reasonably confident. >> reasonably confident. >> reasonably confident. >> Am I arrogant enough? Am I narcissistic >> Am I arrogant enough? Am I narcissistic >> Am I arrogant enough? Am I narcissistic enough to say I couldn't make a mistake? enough to say I couldn't make a mistake? enough to say I couldn't make a mistake? Of course not. But until this Of course not. But until this Of course not. But until this information came out, the state was information came out, the state was information came out, the state was convinced that Mr. Ford was guilty. convinced that Mr. Ford was guilty. convinced that Mr. Ford was guilty. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> He could have been killed. >> He could have been killed. >> He could have been killed. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And it would have been a mistake. >> And it would have been a mistake. >> And it would have been a mistake. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> It sounds like you're saying that's just >> It sounds like you're saying that's just >> It sounds like you're saying that's just a risk we have to take. a risk we have to take. a risk we have to take. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. If I had gotten this information too If I had gotten this information too If I had gotten this information too late, all of us late, all of us late, all of us would have been uh grieved beyond would have been uh grieved beyond would have been uh grieved beyond description. Uh, we don't want to do description. Uh, we don't want to do description. Uh, we don't want to do this to people who are not guilty of the this to people who are not guilty of the this to people who are not guilty of the crime they're charged with. crime they're charged with. crime they're charged with. >> According to Louisiana law, Glenn Ford >> According to Louisiana law, Glenn Ford >> According to Louisiana law, Glenn Ford was entitled to $330,000, was entitled to $330,000, was entitled to $330,000, about $11,000 for every year of wrongful about $11,000 for every year of wrongful about $11,000 for every year of wrongful imprisonment. But the state is denying imprisonment. But the state is denying imprisonment. But the state is denying him the money. Why? In the original him the money. Why? In the original him the money. Why? In the original trial, prosecutors said Ford knew a trial, prosecutors said Ford knew a trial, prosecutors said Ford knew a robbery of Roseman's jewelry shop was robbery of Roseman's jewelry shop was robbery of Roseman's jewelry shop was going to take place, but he didn't going to take place, but he didn't going to take place, but he didn't report it. Ford was never charged with report it. Ford was never charged with report it. Ford was never charged with that crime, but the state says that's that crime, but the state says that's that crime, but the state says that's reason enough to deny him.

reason enough to deny him. reason enough to deny him. >> Do you believe he should be compensated >> Do you believe he should be compensated >> Do you believe he should be compensated for the time he spent in prison? for the time he spent in prison? for the time he spent in prison? >> No. I think we need to follow the law, >> No. I think we need to follow the law, >> No. I think we need to follow the law, and the statute does not require that and the statute does not require that and the statute does not require that you be charged or convicted or arrested you be charged or convicted or arrested you be charged or convicted or arrested for any of these other crimes. The for any of these other crimes. The for any of these other crimes. The statute only requires that Mr. Ford statute only requires that Mr. Ford statute only requires that Mr. Ford prove he didn't do these other crimes. prove he didn't do these other crimes. prove he didn't do these other crimes. >> So, he's guilty until proven innocent in >> So, he's guilty until proven innocent in >> So, he's guilty until proven innocent in this case. this case. this case. >> No, because it's not a question of guilt >> No, because it's not a question of guilt >> No, because it's not a question of guilt or innocence. It's a question of whether or innocence. It's a question of whether or innocence. It's a question of whether he's entitled to money, taxpayer money. he's entitled to money, taxpayer money. he's entitled to money, taxpayer money. >> But you say he has to prove Yes. >> But you say he has to prove Yes. >> But you say he has to prove Yes. >> that he's innocent of these other >> that he's innocent of these other >> that he's innocent of these other charges, these other crimes for which charges, these other crimes for which charges, these other crimes for which he's never been charged, for which he's he's never been charged, for which he's he's never been charged, for which he's never been tried. never been tried. never been tried. >> That's correct. >> That's correct. >> That's correct. >> He has to prove that he's innocent of >> He has to prove that he's innocent of >> He has to prove that he's innocent of them in order to get the compensation. them in order to get the compensation. them in order to get the compensation. That's correct. That's correct. That's correct. >> I'm I'm trying to understand. He was >> I'm I'm trying to understand. He was >> I'm I'm trying to understand. He was punished for something that he might punished for something that he might punished for something that he might have done. That doesn't seem fair. have done. That doesn't seem fair. have done. That doesn't seem fair. >> You want fairness. >> You want fairness. >> You want fairness. >> Isn't the law supposed to pro provide >> Isn't the law supposed to pro provide >> Isn't the law supposed to pro provide fairness? fairness? fairness? >> It is supposed to >> It is supposed to >> It is supposed to provide justice.

provide justice. provide justice. >> You don't think he deserves >> You don't think he deserves >> You don't think he deserves compensation? compensation? compensation? >> I think that the law must be followed. >> I think that the law must be followed. >> I think that the law must be followed. >> What law? >> What law? >> What law? I had never heard of such law where it I had never heard of such law where it I had never heard of such law where it says it's okay to says it's okay to says it's okay to do what they did to me without any type do what they did to me without any type do what they did to me without any type of compensation. of compensation. of compensation. >> There was some compensation. Glenn Ford >> There was some compensation. Glenn Ford >> There was some compensation. Glenn Ford was given a $20 gift card the day he was given a $20 gift card the day he was given a $20 gift card the day he left Angola prison. left Angola prison. left Angola prison. >> Gave me a card for $20 and said, "Wish >> Gave me a card for $20 and said, "Wish >> Gave me a card for $20 and said, "Wish you luck." you luck." you luck." >> How long did that last you? >> How long did that last you? >> How long did that last you? >> One meal. >> One meal. >> One meal. I had some fried chicken, tea, and the I had some fried chicken, tea, and the I had some fried chicken, tea, and the French fries came with it. I had $4 and French fries came with it. I had $4 and French fries came with it. I had $4 and change left change left change left after 30 years in prison. after 30 years in prison. after 30 years in prison. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. 30 years on death row in in solitary 30 years on death row in in solitary 30 years on death row in in solitary confinement and the state of Louisiana confinement and the state of Louisiana confinement and the state of Louisiana releases Mr. Ford with a $20 gift card. releases Mr. Ford with a $20 gift card. releases Mr. Ford with a $20 gift card. You're trying to portray the state of You're trying to portray the state of You're trying to portray the state of Louisiana Louisiana Louisiana as some kind of monster. I got him out as some kind of monster. I got him out as some kind of monster. I got him out of jail as quickly as I could. That's of jail as quickly as I could. That's of jail as quickly as I could. That's what the obligation of the state is what the obligation of the state is what the obligation of the state is >> and that's the end of the state's >> and that's the end of the state's >> and that's the end of the state's obligation obligation obligation >> as far as I'm concerned.

>> as far as I'm concerned. >> as far as I'm concerned. >> What about compassion? >> What about compassion? >> What about compassion? Have you no compassion for what Mr. Ford Have you no compassion for what Mr. Ford Have you no compassion for what Mr. Ford has been through? has been through? has been through? >> Well, well, you don't know me at all, do >> Well, well, you don't know me at all, do >> Well, well, you don't know me at all, do you? And but you have no problem asking you? And but you have no problem asking you? And but you have no problem asking that question. that question. that question. >> No, I'm I'm asking because I'm seeking >> No, I'm I'm asking because I'm seeking >> No, I'm I'm asking because I'm seeking an answer. I an answer. I an answer. I >> I'm not in the compassion business. None >> I'm not in the compassion business. None >> I'm not in the compassion business. None of us as prosecutors or defense lawyers of us as prosecutors or defense lawyers of us as prosecutors or defense lawyers are in the compassion business. Um I I are in the compassion business. Um I I are in the compassion business. Um I I think the ministry is in the compassion think the ministry is in the compassion think the ministry is in the compassion business. We're in the legal business. business. We're in the legal business. business. We're in the legal business. So to suggest that somehow what has So to suggest that somehow what has So to suggest that somehow what has happened to Glenn Ford is abhorrent. happened to Glenn Ford is abhorrent. happened to Glenn Ford is abhorrent. Yes, it's unfair, Yes, it's unfair, Yes, it's unfair, but it's not illegal. Uh and it's not but it's not illegal. Uh and it's not but it's not illegal. Uh and it's not even immoral. It just doesn't fit your even immoral. It just doesn't fit your even immoral. It just doesn't fit your perception of fairness. perception of fairness. perception of fairness. >> I would say in this case, >> I would say in this case, >> I would say in this case, many many many people would see this as many many many people would see this as many many many people would see this as unfair. unfair. unfair. >> I agree. >> I agree. >> I agree. I I can't disagree with that.

I I can't disagree with that. I I can't disagree with that. >> For his part, Marty Strad says Glenn >> For his part, Marty Strad says Glenn >> For his part, Marty Strad says Glenn Ford deserves every penny owed him. He Ford deserves every penny owed him. He Ford deserves every penny owed him. He went to see Ford to apologize. How do went to see Ford to apologize. How do went to see Ford to apologize. How do you apologize to someone for taking 30 you apologize to someone for taking 30 you apologize to someone for taking 30 years of his life from him? years of his life from him? years of his life from him? >> Well, there's no book you can read to do >> Well, there's no book you can read to do >> Well, there's no book you can read to do that. I just went in and apologized. that. I just went in and apologized. that. I just went in and apologized. >> Do you forgive him? >> Do you forgive him? >> Do you forgive him? >> No. He didn't only take from me, he took He didn't only take from me, he took from my whole family. So, from my whole family. So, from my whole family. So, >> it sounds like you don't think you could >> it sounds like you don't think you could >> it sounds like you don't think you could ever forgive him. ever forgive him. ever forgive him. >> Well, I don't, >> Well, I don't, >> Well, I don't, but I'm still trying, though. but I'm still trying, though. but I'm still trying, though. >> Do you think you deserve his >> Do you think you deserve his >> Do you think you deserve his forgiveness. forgiveness. forgiveness. >> No. If somebody had done that to me, I >> No. If somebody had done that to me, I >> No. If somebody had done that to me, I don't know if I could forgive them. don't know if I could forgive them. don't know if I could forgive them. >> You say you destroyed his life. >> You say you destroyed his life. >> You say you destroyed his life. Sounds like this incident Sounds like this incident Sounds like this incident destroyed your life, too. destroyed your life, too. destroyed your life, too. >> I've got a hole in me through which the >> I've got a hole in me through which the >> I've got a hole in me through which the north wind blows. It's it's a sense of north wind blows. It's it's a sense of north wind blows. It's it's a sense of of coldness. It's a sense of of coldness. It's a sense of of coldness. It's a sense of of just disgust. There's just nothing of just disgust. There's just nothing of just disgust. There's just nothing out there that can fill in that hole. It out there that can fill in that hole. It out there that can fill in that hole. It says, "It's all right." Well, it's not says, "It's all right." Well, it's not says, "It's all right." Well, it's not all right.

all right. all right. It's not all right. [singing] [singing] >> Three weeks after we met him, Len Ford >> Three weeks after we met him, Len Ford >> Three weeks after we met him, Len Ford died penniless. His final months, he died penniless. His final months, he died penniless. His final months, he lived off charity. Donations covered the lived off charity. Donations covered the lived off charity. Donations covered the cost of his funeral. [singing] >> There was a tragic outcome. And and >> There was a tragic outcome. And and these tragic outcomes happen all the these tragic outcomes happen all the these tragic outcomes happen all the time in life. It's not like the Glenn time in life. It's not like the Glenn time in life. It's not like the Glenn Ford case is the only tragedy you will Ford case is the only tragedy you will Ford case is the only tragedy you will ever see or I'll ever see in our ever see or I'll ever see in our ever see or I'll ever see in our lifetime. The question is, was there lifetime. The question is, was there lifetime. The question is, was there anything illegally done, improperly done anything illegally done, improperly done anything illegally done, improperly done that led to this? And and and I can that led to this? And and and I can that led to this? And and and I can comfortably say based on the review of comfortably say based on the review of comfortably say based on the review of the record, no, there was not. In Glenn the record, no, there was not. In Glenn the record, no, there was not. In Glenn Ford's will, he directs that any state Ford's will, he directs that any state Ford's will, he directs that any state money he might receive go to his 10 money he might receive go to his 10 money he might receive go to his 10 grandchildren so they can have a better grandchildren so they can have a better grandchildren so they can have a better chance than he did. And Marty Strad, he chance than he did. And Marty Strad, he chance than he did. And Marty Strad, he has asked the Louisiana Bar Association has asked the Louisiana Bar Association has asked the Louisiana Bar Association to discipline him for his role in the to discipline him for his role in the to discipline him for his role in the Ford case.

Ford case. Ford case. >> It was a train to injustice and I was >> It was a train to injustice and I was >> It was a train to injustice and I was the engineer. the engineer. the engineer. Lyn Ford will be Lyn Ford will be Lyn Ford will be a part of me until the day I die. Hardly a day goes by when we don't Hardly a day goes by when we don't receive a letter from someone in prison receive a letter from someone in prison receive a letter from someone in prison who claims he didn't do it and doesn't who claims he didn't do it and doesn't who claims he didn't do it and doesn't belong there. Most of the time it turns belong there. Most of the time it turns belong there. Most of the time it turns out he probably did do it and does out he probably did do it and does out he probably did do it and does belong there. But once in a while, we belong there. But once in a while, we belong there. But once in a while, we hear about a case like the one that hear about a case like the one that hear about a case like the one that called our attention to two men in called our attention to two men in called our attention to two men in Louisiana who may have been wrongfully Louisiana who may have been wrongfully Louisiana who may have been wrongfully convicted and sent to prison for a convicted and sent to prison for a convicted and sent to prison for a robbery and murder 22 years ago. Were robbery and murder 22 years ago. Were robbery and murder 22 years ago. Were they? You decide. they? You decide. they? You decide. >> 22 years and I'm still in here and I >> 22 years and I'm still in here and I >> 22 years and I'm still in here and I still don't know when I'm going home. If still don't know when I'm going home. If still don't know when I'm going home. If I'm ever going home. I'm ever going home. I'm ever going home. >> 22 years I'm still gone. We refuse to >> 22 years I'm still gone. We refuse to >> 22 years I'm still gone. We refuse to give up.

give up. give up. 22 years ago, Harry Granger was working 22 years ago, Harry Granger was working 22 years ago, Harry Granger was working in construction. David Alexander was in construction. David Alexander was in construction. David Alexander was working as a taxi driver. Back in 1976, working as a taxi driver. Back in 1976, working as a taxi driver. Back in 1976, both were accused of being part of a both were accused of being part of a both were accused of being part of a group that robbed and murdered Lewis group that robbed and murdered Lewis group that robbed and murdered Lewis Gladu in his convenience store in New Gladu in his convenience store in New Gladu in his convenience store in New Iberia, Louisiana. Iberia, Louisiana. Iberia, Louisiana. >> Mr. Gladu was laying in front of the >> Mr. Gladu was laying in front of the >> Mr. Gladu was laying in front of the service counter uh and hid. service counter uh and hid. service counter uh and hid. >> Today, Steve Wooding heads the armed >> Today, Steve Wooding heads the armed >> Today, Steve Wooding heads the armed robbery division of the Baton Rouge robbery division of the Baton Rouge robbery division of the Baton Rouge Police Department. But 22 years ago, he Police Department. But 22 years ago, he Police Department. But 22 years ago, he was a young and admittedly inexperienced was a young and admittedly inexperienced was a young and admittedly inexperienced sheriff's deputy in New Iberia working sheriff's deputy in New Iberia working sheriff's deputy in New Iberia working on his first murder case. on his first murder case. on his first murder case. >> What was the strongest evidence that the >> What was the strongest evidence that the >> What was the strongest evidence that the sheriff's department had? sheriff's department had? sheriff's department had? >> We had virtually nothing. We had >> We had virtually nothing. We had >> We had virtually nothing. We had nothing. nothing. nothing. >> No real suspects at the top of the list. >> No real suspects at the top of the list. >> No real suspects at the top of the list. >> No. >> No. >> No. >> Until this woman appeared. Her name is >> Until this woman appeared. Her name is >> Until this woman appeared. Her name is Mary Arseno. 22 years ago, Arseno was a Mary Arseno. 22 years ago, Arseno was a Mary Arseno. 22 years ago, Arseno was a convicted criminal out on parole with a convicted criminal out on parole with a convicted criminal out on parole with a charge pending against her. Six days charge pending against her. Six days charge pending against her. Six days after the murder, she voluntarily told a after the murder, she voluntarily told a after the murder, she voluntarily told a friend and the police that she took part friend and the police that she took part friend and the police that she took part in the crime, could identify some of the in the crime, could identify some of the in the crime, could identify some of the robbers, and could take the police to a robbers, and could take the police to a robbers, and could take the police to a place called Cypress Island, where she place called Cypress Island, where she place called Cypress Island, where she said the guns were buried. What was your said the guns were buried. What was your said the guns were buried. What was your impression of her credibility?

impression of her credibility? impression of her credibility? >> When she took us out to Cypress Island >> When she took us out to Cypress Island >> When she took us out to Cypress Island and the guns were not buried there after and the guns were not buried there after and the guns were not buried there after all, and then she admitted that evening all, and then she admitted that evening all, and then she admitted that evening that she had made that up, that was very that she had made that up, that was very that she had made that up, that was very disturbing. It may have been disturbing, disturbing. It may have been disturbing, disturbing. It may have been disturbing, but Arseno was their first big break and but Arseno was their first big break and but Arseno was their first big break and the sheriff's department believed her. the sheriff's department believed her. the sheriff's department believed her. According to Arseno, in addition to According to Arseno, in addition to According to Arseno, in addition to Alexander Granger and herself, several Alexander Granger and herself, several Alexander Granger and herself, several more people took part in the robbery, more people took part in the robbery, more people took part in the robbery, and it was a strange group. For example, and it was a strange group. For example, and it was a strange group. For example, some of them didn't know each other, and some of them didn't know each other, and some of them didn't know each other, and two of the men were mentally [ __ ] two of the men were mentally [ __ ] two of the men were mentally [ __ ] One of the [ __ ] men was Herbert One of the [ __ ] men was Herbert One of the [ __ ] men was Herbert Derowan, who denied that he was involved Derowan, who denied that he was involved Derowan, who denied that he was involved until he was interrogated. It went on until he was interrogated. It went on until he was interrogated. It went on for hours and the manner in which the for hours and the manner in which the for hours and the manner in which the interrogation was done was very interrogation was done was very interrogation was done was very suggestive. In other words, Captain Ko suggestive. In other words, Captain Ko suggestive. In other words, Captain Ko would provide facts of the case through would provide facts of the case through would provide facts of the case through leading questions and eventually he came leading questions and eventually he came leading questions and eventually he came out and he began to parrot back some of out and he began to parrot back some of out and he began to parrot back some of the things that Captain Ko was telling the things that Captain Ko was telling the things that Captain Ko was telling him. him. him. >> By the end of the interrogation, Herbert >> By the end of the interrogation, Herbert >> By the end of the interrogation, Herbert Derowan confessed and became the Derowan confessed and became the Derowan confessed and became the prosecution's second key witness. Did prosecution's second key witness. Did prosecution's second key witness. Did did you have any concerns about his did you have any concerns about his did you have any concerns about his confession confession confession >> at the time? I had very strong concerns.

>> at the time? I had very strong concerns. >> at the time? I had very strong concerns. >> What was the response to your concern? >> What was the response to your concern? >> What was the response to your concern? >> I was uh I was not taken seriously. >> I was uh I was not taken seriously. >> I was uh I was not taken seriously. >> Based on Darowan and Arseno's >> Based on Darowan and Arseno's >> Based on Darowan and Arseno's information, the prosecution said that information, the prosecution said that information, the prosecution said that seven people in two cars drove to a seven people in two cars drove to a seven people in two cars drove to a convenience store called the Hasty Mart. convenience store called the Hasty Mart. convenience store called the Hasty Mart. One car, a taxi parked in front, the One car, a taxi parked in front, the One car, a taxi parked in front, the other across the road with arseno other across the road with arseno other across the road with arseno remaining in it, while the six men remaining in it, while the six men remaining in it, while the six men robbed and killed Lewis Gladu. But robbed and killed Lewis Gladu. But robbed and killed Lewis Gladu. But before they could go to trial, this man, before they could go to trial, this man, before they could go to trial, this man, Malcolm Roy, told authorities they had Malcolm Roy, told authorities they had Malcolm Roy, told authorities they had the wrong men. the wrong men. the wrong men. >> Not one of them was there. >> Not one of them was there. >> Not one of them was there. >> None of them were involved in this >> None of them were involved in this >> None of them were involved in this robbery and this murder. robbery and this murder. robbery and this murder. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Malcolm Roy says he knows they were not >> Malcolm Roy says he knows they were not >> Malcolm Roy says he knows they were not there because he was. We talked to him there because he was. We talked to him there because he was. We talked to him at a prison in Louisiana where he's at a prison in Louisiana where he's at a prison in Louisiana where he's serving time for burglary and possession serving time for burglary and possession serving time for burglary and possession of cocaine. of cocaine. of cocaine. >> You were involved in it. >> You were involved in it. >> You were involved in it. >> Yes, I drove the car. >> Yes, I drove the car. >> Yes, I drove the car. >> According to Roy, on the day of the >> According to Roy, on the day of the >> According to Roy, on the day of the murder, he drove to the Hasty Mart and murder, he drove to the Hasty Mart and murder, he drove to the Hasty Mart and waited in the car while two friends went waited in the car while two friends went waited in the car while two friends went inside. He says they came out excited inside. He says they came out excited inside. He says they came out excited and bloody. I asked him what happened, and bloody. I asked him what happened, and bloody. I asked him what happened, you know, cuz I seen gun on blood on the you know, cuz I seen gun on blood on the you know, cuz I seen gun on blood on the gun gun gun and um so person said that he killed the and um so person said that he killed the and um so person said that he killed the [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] >> What's your reaction when they pick up >> What's your reaction when they pick up >> What's your reaction when they pick up these other guys for the murder?

these other guys for the murder? these other guys for the murder? >> Well, I'm I'm stung, you know. I don't >> Well, I'm I'm stung, you know. I don't >> Well, I'm I'm stung, you know. I don't know why they picked them up, you know, know why they picked them up, you know, know why they picked them up, you know, because these guys didn't do this. because these guys didn't do this. because these guys didn't do this. Malcolm Roy confessed to the Hasty Mart Malcolm Roy confessed to the Hasty Mart Malcolm Roy confessed to the Hasty Mart robbery after he was implicated by one robbery after he was implicated by one robbery after he was implicated by one of his friends who had already confessed of his friends who had already confessed of his friends who had already confessed and led police to this gun, which and led police to this gun, which and led police to this gun, which ballistics tests prove was the gun that ballistics tests prove was the gun that ballistics tests prove was the gun that killed Lewis Gladu. But the sheriff's killed Lewis Gladu. But the sheriff's killed Lewis Gladu. But the sheriff's department didn't believe them and said department didn't believe them and said department didn't believe them and said they had evidence that Roy and his they had evidence that Roy and his they had evidence that Roy and his friend were lying. Later, both claimed friend were lying. Later, both claimed friend were lying. Later, both claimed they had been offered a bribe to lie and they had been offered a bribe to lie and they had been offered a bribe to lie and took their confessions back. Here I'm I took their confessions back. Here I'm I took their confessions back. Here I'm I am confessing to a armed robbery and am confessing to a armed robbery and am confessing to a armed robbery and murder and then you're telling me that murder and then you're telling me that murder and then you're telling me that I'm lying, you know. And I'm lying, you know. And I'm lying, you know. And >> do you think that they didn't believe >> do you think that they didn't believe >> do you think that they didn't believe you or that they believed you but didn't you or that they believed you but didn't you or that they believed you but didn't want to hear what you had to say? want to hear what you had to say? want to hear what you had to say? >> They believed me but didn't want to hear >> They believed me but didn't want to hear >> They believed me but didn't want to hear what I had to say. what I had to say. what I had to say. >> You don't have any doubts about that, >> You don't have any doubts about that, >> You don't have any doubts about that, >> right? They knew. They framed those guys. They framed those guys. They knew what they was doing. Roy They knew what they was doing. Roy They knew what they was doing. Roy confessed again at David Alexander and confessed again at David Alexander and confessed again at David Alexander and Harry Grers's trial, which took place in Harry Grers's trial, which took place in Harry Grers's trial, which took place in this courtroom. But the jury didn't this courtroom. But the jury didn't this courtroom. But the jury didn't believe him. Instead, they believed Mary believe him. Instead, they believed Mary believe him. Instead, they believed Mary Arseno and Herbert Derowan, who both Arseno and Herbert Derowan, who both Arseno and Herbert Derowan, who both testified with immunity. After a two-day testified with immunity. After a two-day testified with immunity. After a two-day trial, Alexander and Granger were trial, Alexander and Granger were trial, Alexander and Granger were convicted of armed robbery and sentenced convicted of armed robbery and sentenced convicted of armed robbery and sentenced to 99 years. That's what convinced the to 99 years. That's what convinced the to 99 years. That's what convinced the remaining two defendants, Ronald Miller remaining two defendants, Ronald Miller remaining two defendants, Ronald Miller and John Nelson Collins, to plead guilty

and John Nelson Collins, to plead guilty and John Nelson Collins, to plead guilty in exchange for a lesser sentence. in exchange for a lesser sentence. in exchange for a lesser sentence. >> I didn't think I had a chance. >> I didn't think I had a chance. >> I didn't think I had a chance. >> Miller served 20 months in jail. So did >> Miller served 20 months in jail. So did >> Miller served 20 months in jail. So did Collins. Both have been trying to clear Collins. Both have been trying to clear Collins. Both have been trying to clear their names ever since. their names ever since. their names ever since. >> Mr. Bradley, we wouldn't be here today >> Mr. Bradley, we wouldn't be here today >> Mr. Bradley, we wouldn't be here today sitting here wasting your time and our sitting here wasting your time and our sitting here wasting your time and our time if we weren't innocent. The time if we weren't innocent. The time if we weren't innocent. The district attorney told us that he became district attorney told us that he became district attorney told us that he became convinced that the right two men had convinced that the right two men had convinced that the right two men had been convicted after you guys plead been convicted after you guys plead been convicted after you guys plead guilty. Quite quite naturally the guilty. Quite quite naturally the guilty. Quite quite naturally the district attorney is going to say that district attorney is going to say that district attorney is going to say that is his ball game. is his ball game. is his ball game. I mean everybody told the truth got time I mean everybody told the truth got time I mean everybody told the truth got time to immunity went home. Remember that to immunity went home. Remember that to immunity went home. Remember that Mary also and Dale went Mary also and Dale went Mary also and Dale went everybody that told the truth done time. everybody that told the truth done time. everybody that told the truth done time. Everybody that lied went home. Everybody that lied went home. Everybody that lied went home. Think about it. Think about it. Think about it. >> Did either of you know Mary Arsenal? >> Did either of you know Mary Arsenal? >> Did either of you know Mary Arsenal? >> Neither one of you knew her. >> Neither one of you knew her. >> Neither one of you knew her. >> Well, the first time I saw her when when >> Well, the first time I saw her when when >> Well, the first time I saw her when when she walked in the room, she walked in the room, she walked in the room, >> I stood up. I said, "Well, I know I'm >> I stood up. I said, "Well, I know I'm >> I stood up. I said, "Well, I know I'm going home now because I don't know this going home now because I don't know this going home now because I don't know this lady." So, I I said I stood up. I said, lady." So, I I said I stood up. I said, lady." So, I I said I stood up. I said, "Look at me." She looked at me and she "Look at me." She looked at me and she "Look at me." She looked at me and she her head was going like this. She had her head was going like this. She had her head was going like this. She had tears in her eye. And then Horus Ko tears in her eye. And then Horus Ko tears in her eye. And then Horus Ko grabbed her and she went from this to grabbed her and she went from this to grabbed her and she went from this to this. Como was a police captain.

this. Como was a police captain. this. Como was a police captain. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. Right. Right. Right. And she went from no And she went from no And she went from no to yes. Woodring says he had doubts to yes. Woodring says he had doubts to yes. Woodring says he had doubts about the case and Arseno's credibility about the case and Arseno's credibility about the case and Arseno's credibility from the beginning. But those doubts from the beginning. But those doubts from the beginning. But those doubts were not confirmed until he ran into were not confirmed until he ran into were not confirmed until he ran into Arseno 9 years after the trial. Baton Arseno 9 years after the trial. Baton Arseno 9 years after the trial. Baton Rouge police were looking for the man Rouge police were looking for the man Rouge police were looking for the man responsible for a string of robberies responsible for a string of robberies responsible for a string of robberies and Arseno said she knew who he was. It and Arseno said she knew who he was. It and Arseno said she knew who he was. It turned out she was lying. turned out she was lying. turned out she was lying. >> So I thought to myself, she's done it >> So I thought to myself, she's done it >> So I thought to myself, she's done it again. She tried to do it again. But again. She tried to do it again. But again. She tried to do it again. But >> she identified the wrong man. >> she identified the wrong man. >> she identified the wrong man. >> She identified the wrong man. A series >> She identified the wrong man. A series >> She identified the wrong man. A series of robberies. of robberies. of robberies. >> That's right. But she didn't just >> That's right. But she didn't just >> That's right. But she didn't just identify him. She went into great identify him. She went into great identify him. She went into great detail. detail. detail. >> Did you then make a connection between >> Did you then make a connection between >> Did you then make a connection between this in the mid 80s and what had this in the mid 80s and what had this in the mid 80s and what had happened with the shooting of Mr. Gladoo happened with the shooting of Mr. Gladoo happened with the shooting of Mr. Gladoo at the Hasty Mark? Absolutely. at the Hasty Mark? Absolutely. at the Hasty Mark? Absolutely. >> So, you're feeling now that these guys >> So, you're feeling now that these guys >> So, you're feeling now that these guys in there are innocent, in there are innocent, in there are innocent, >> Mr. Bradley, they are absolutely >> Mr. Bradley, they are absolutely >> Mr. Bradley, they are absolutely innocent. They were wrongfully innocent. They were wrongfully innocent. They were wrongfully convicted.

convicted. convicted. And I'm absolutely certain of what I'm And I'm absolutely certain of what I'm And I'm absolutely certain of what I'm saying. saying. saying. >> Do Do you believe that the sheriff's >> Do Do you believe that the sheriff's >> Do Do you believe that the sheriff's department deliberately, knowingly built department deliberately, knowingly built department deliberately, knowingly built a case against Granger and Alexander? a case against Granger and Alexander? a case against Granger and Alexander? >> That's the only explanation. >> That's the only explanation. >> That's the only explanation. That's the only explanation why. That's the only explanation why. That's the only explanation why. I think uh they were under extreme I think uh they were under extreme I think uh they were under extreme pressure. Uh pressure. Uh pressure. Uh and I think that they felt like they and I think that they felt like they and I think that they felt like they would be embarrassed would be embarrassed would be embarrassed uh if they had to release these guys uh if they had to release these guys uh if they had to release these guys after they charge them. >> It just sort of makes you shake your >> It just sort of makes you shake your head here. head here. head here. >> The conclusions reached based on the >> The conclusions reached based on the >> The conclusions reached based on the evidence in this case are inexplicable. evidence in this case are inexplicable. evidence in this case are inexplicable. Anyone Anyone Anyone that examines this case reaches the same that examines this case reaches the same that examines this case reaches the same conclusion except the investigators conclusion except the investigators conclusion except the investigators and the staff of the district attorney's and the staff of the district attorney's and the staff of the district attorney's office in Iberia Parish. office in Iberia Parish. office in Iberia Parish. >> Bernard Budro is the district attorney >> Bernard Budro is the district attorney >> Bernard Budro is the district attorney in Iberia Parish.

in Iberia Parish. in Iberia Parish. >> I was not the district attorney at the >> I was not the district attorney at the >> I was not the district attorney at the time this case was tried, nor did I try time this case was tried, nor did I try time this case was tried, nor did I try this case. I have no personal interest this case. I have no personal interest this case. I have no personal interest in this case. I am convinced they're in this case. I am convinced they're in this case. I am convinced they're guilty and I believe that the criminal guilty and I believe that the criminal guilty and I believe that the criminal justice system acted properly. justice system acted properly. justice system acted properly. >> You're convinced the the the right men >> You're convinced the the the right men >> You're convinced the the the right men are in jail. are in jail. are in jail. >> I certainly am. >> I certainly am. >> I certainly am. >> Budro says he's convinced because none >> Budro says he's convinced because none >> Budro says he's convinced because none of the men had credible alibis. Some of the men had credible alibis. Some of the men had credible alibis. Some failed lie detector tests. Alexander's failed lie detector tests. Alexander's failed lie detector tests. Alexander's car was identified as being at the crime car was identified as being at the crime car was identified as being at the crime scene. And the testimony from Herbert scene. And the testimony from Herbert scene. And the testimony from Herbert Derowan and Mary Arseno was Derowan and Mary Arseno was Derowan and Mary Arseno was corroborated, consistent, and credible. corroborated, consistent, and credible. corroborated, consistent, and credible. I don't see anything that could be I don't see anything that could be I don't see anything that could be considered credible about Mary Arseno. considered credible about Mary Arseno. considered credible about Mary Arseno. >> Since the Hasty Mart murder, Mary Arseno >> Since the Hasty Mart murder, Mary Arseno >> Since the Hasty Mart murder, Mary Arseno has been living in Baton Rouge. At has been living in Baton Rouge. At has been living in Baton Rouge. At first, she was reluctant to talk to us, first, she was reluctant to talk to us, first, she was reluctant to talk to us, but she finally agreed. but she finally agreed. but she finally agreed. >> You said that Harry Granger and David >> You said that Harry Granger and David >> You said that Harry Granger and David Alexander committed this robbery and Alexander committed this robbery and Alexander committed this robbery and this murder. this murder. this murder. >> Yep, I sure did.

>> Yep, I sure did. >> Yep, I sure did. >> I'm asking you today, did they? >> I'm asking you today, did they? >> I'm asking you today, did they? >> No, they didn't. >> No, they didn't. >> No, they didn't. After all that you've said in the past, After all that you've said in the past, After all that you've said in the past, why should we believe you today? why should we believe you today? why should we believe you today? >> Well, >> Well, >> Well, I'm telling you. I'm telling you. I'm telling you. >> Just tell me the truth. Well, >> Just tell me the truth. Well, >> Just tell me the truth. Well, >> I'm telling you the truth. >> I'm telling you the truth. >> I'm telling you the truth. >> What is the truth? >> What is the truth? >> What is the truth? >> They did not kill the people and rob >> They did not kill the people and rob >> They did not kill the people and rob them. them. them. >> They didn't kill Mr. Glad. >> They didn't kill Mr. Glad. >> They didn't kill Mr. Glad. >> No, they didn't kill no Liz Glad do. >> No, they didn't kill no Liz Glad do. >> No, they didn't kill no Liz Glad do. >> Did anyone >> Did anyone >> Did anyone pay you to say that? pay you to say that? pay you to say that? >> All I'mma stay was bribing. >> All I'mma stay was bribing. >> All I'mma stay was bribing. >> You got money? I sure did. >> You got money? I sure did. >> You got money? I sure did. >> Did Mary Arseno receive anything in >> Did Mary Arseno receive anything in >> Did Mary Arseno receive anything in return for providing this information? return for providing this information? return for providing this information? Was she paid? Was she paid? Was she paid? >> No, she was not paid anything. Some >> No, she was not paid anything. Some >> No, she was not paid anything. Some charges against her were dismissed in charges against her were dismissed in charges against her were dismissed in St. Martin Parish. St. Martin Parish. St. Martin Parish. >> Did she receive anything for her >> Did she receive anything for her >> Did she receive anything for her information? information? information? >> Yes, she she received money from the >> Yes, she she received money from the >> Yes, she she received money from the sheriff's department. sheriff's department. sheriff's department. >> She was paid. >> She was paid. >> She was paid. >> She was paid. Yes, sir. >> She was paid. Yes, sir. >> She was paid. Yes, sir. >> What about the charges against you? Were >> What about the charges against you? Were >> What about the charges against you? Were they Were they dropped? they Were they dropped? they Were they dropped? >> So did. But you have two men who you're >> So did. But you have two men who you're >> So did. But you have two men who you're saying saying saying are innocent.

are innocent. are innocent. >> Yeah, they innocent. >> Yeah, they innocent. >> Yeah, they innocent. >> And they've been in jail for 22 years. >> And they've been in jail for 22 years. >> And they've been in jail for 22 years. >> Well, sometime after 22 years, you could >> Well, sometime after 22 years, you could >> Well, sometime after 22 years, you could free somebody. free somebody. free somebody. >> Which is exactly what Jim McCloskkey >> Which is exactly what Jim McCloskkey >> Which is exactly what Jim McCloskkey wants to happen. McCloskey is the wants to happen. McCloskey is the wants to happen. McCloskey is the executive director of Centurion executive director of Centurion executive director of Centurion Ministries, an organization that Ministries, an organization that Ministries, an organization that investigates cases of alleged wrongful investigates cases of alleged wrongful investigates cases of alleged wrongful imprisonment. Very few cases come our imprisonment. Very few cases come our imprisonment. Very few cases come our way where not only do we become way where not only do we become way where not only do we become convinced of the complete innocence, but convinced of the complete innocence, but convinced of the complete innocence, but we also become convinced on the complete we also become convinced on the complete we also become convinced on the complete guilt of the real killers. This is where guilt of the real killers. This is where guilt of the real killers. This is where the Hasty Mart was right here. the Hasty Mart was right here. the Hasty Mart was right here. >> This was the Hasty Mart right here. >> This was the Hasty Mart right here. >> This was the Hasty Mart right here. >> Centurion Ministries has been >> Centurion Ministries has been >> Centurion Ministries has been investigating the Hasty Mart murder for investigating the Hasty Mart murder for investigating the Hasty Mart murder for 2 years. Its goal is to get Alexander 2 years. Its goal is to get Alexander 2 years. Its goal is to get Alexander and Granger a new trial. and Granger a new trial. and Granger a new trial. >> Where are we going? Their case has >> Where are we going? Their case has >> Where are we going? Their case has already been appealed to the Justice already been appealed to the Justice already been appealed to the Justice Department and numerous state and Department and numerous state and Department and numerous state and federal courts, including the US Supreme federal courts, including the US Supreme federal courts, including the US Supreme Court. So far, everyone has been denied. Court. So far, everyone has been denied. Court. So far, everyone has been denied. How difficult will it be to get How difficult will it be to get How difficult will it be to get Alexander and Granger a new trial? In Alexander and Granger a new trial? In Alexander and Granger a new trial? In the interest of justice, we believe that the interest of justice, we believe that the interest of justice, we believe that some court in Louisiana will some court in Louisiana will some court in Louisiana will reassess original positions and take a reassess original positions and take a reassess original positions and take a look at this and see it for what it is, look at this and see it for what it is, look at this and see it for what it is, which is one of the worst miscarriage of which is one of the worst miscarriage of which is one of the worst miscarriage of justice I've seen anywhere in the 17 justice I've seen anywhere in the 17 justice I've seen anywhere in the 17 years I've been doing this work. I am years I've been doing this work. I am years I've been doing this work. I am not about to say that there has never not about to say that there has never not about to say that there has never been a miscarriage of justice in the been a miscarriage of justice in the been a miscarriage of justice in the United States or in the state of United States or in the state of United States or in the state of Louisiana, but in this case, there has Louisiana, but in this case, there has Louisiana, but in this case, there has been no miscarriage of justice. Do you been no miscarriage of justice. Do you been no miscarriage of justice. Do you think race played a role in in any of

think race played a role in in any of think race played a role in in any of this? this? this? >> I think probably at that time uh there >> I think probably at that time uh there >> I think probably at that time uh there was a feeling uh that that pervaded uh was a feeling uh that that pervaded uh was a feeling uh that that pervaded uh much of the law enforcement community. much of the law enforcement community. much of the law enforcement community. And I'm just going to be plain spoken And I'm just going to be plain spoken And I'm just going to be plain spoken here. These were two two black young here. These were two two black young here. These were two two black young black men. If they didn't do that, they black men. If they didn't do that, they black men. If they didn't do that, they probably did something else. And what probably did something else. And what probably did something else. And what have we lost if they're not the right have we lost if they're not the right have we lost if they're not the right guys? guys? guys? >> And if five, six years down the road, >> And if five, six years down the road, >> And if five, six years down the road, you're still sitting here in Baton Rouge you're still sitting here in Baton Rouge you're still sitting here in Baton Rouge and they're still sitting in Angola and they're still sitting in Angola and they're still sitting in Angola prison. prison. prison. >> If that happens, I will continue at >> If that happens, I will continue at >> If that happens, I will continue at every opportunity to profess their every opportunity to profess their every opportunity to profess their innocence. These people were wrongfully innocence. These people were wrongfully innocence. These people were wrongfully convicted. There is no absolutely no convicted. There is no absolutely no convicted. There is no absolutely no doubt about it. 17 years ago, we reported on a woman 17 years ago, we reported on a woman named Jennifer Thompson, a rape victim named Jennifer Thompson, a rape victim named Jennifer Thompson, a rape victim who was devastated to learn years after who was devastated to learn years after who was devastated to learn years after her assault that she and the police had her assault that she and the police had her assault that she and the police had identified an innocent man who was identified an innocent man who was identified an innocent man who was convicted and sent to prison while the convicted and sent to prison while the convicted and sent to prison while the actual rapist had gone on to attacks actual rapist had gone on to attacks actual rapist had gone on to attacks several more women. It's not an uncommon several more women. It's not an uncommon several more women. It's not an uncommon story in this era of DNA exonerations, story in this era of DNA exonerations, story in this era of DNA exonerations, and Jennifer Thompson has tried for and Jennifer Thompson has tried for and Jennifer Thompson has tried for years to do something about it. Thompson years to do something about it. Thompson years to do something about it. Thompson knows firsthand that wrongful knows firsthand that wrongful knows firsthand that wrongful convictions scar not just the unjustly convictions scar not just the unjustly convictions scar not just the unjustly convicted, but also the original crime

convicted, but also the original crime convicted, but also the original crime victims who are often overlooked. So, as victims who are often overlooked. So, as victims who are often overlooked. So, as we first reported in 2024, she's doing we first reported in 2024, she's doing we first reported in 2024, she's doing something no one else has tried and something no one else has tried and something no one else has tried and perhaps only she could pull off. perhaps only she could pull off. perhaps only she could pull off. Bringing together crime victims and Bringing together crime victims and Bringing together crime victims and innocent men from different cases for innocent men from different cases for innocent men from different cases for what she calls healing justice. what she calls healing justice. what she calls healing justice. >> What I'm going to ask you to do is turn >> What I'm going to ask you to do is turn >> What I'm going to ask you to do is turn your bowl upside down. What we saw on your bowl upside down. What we saw on your bowl upside down. What we saw on day one of a multi-day group retreat day one of a multi-day group retreat day one of a multi-day group retreat Jennifer Thompson is leading sure didn't Jennifer Thompson is leading sure didn't Jennifer Thompson is leading sure didn't look like healing. look like healing. look like healing. 10 men and women plus an observer. 10 men and women plus an observer. 10 men and women plus an observer. >> Nice job, Leslie. >> Nice job, Leslie. >> Nice job, Leslie. >> Smashing bowls with a hammer. >> Smashing bowls with a hammer. >> Smashing bowls with a hammer. >> Nice. What I'm going to ask you to do >> Nice. What I'm going to ask you to do >> Nice. What I'm going to ask you to do now is I'm going to ask you to repair now is I'm going to ask you to repair now is I'm going to ask you to repair it. It was quite something to realize it. It was quite something to realize it. It was quite something to realize that gluing pieces back together at one that gluing pieces back together at one that gluing pieces back together at one table were two women who had been raped table were two women who had been raped table were two women who had been raped at the ages of 15 and 12. Sitting across at the ages of 15 and 12. Sitting across at the ages of 15 and 12. Sitting across from two men who, in unrelated cases, from two men who, in unrelated cases, from two men who, in unrelated cases, had been wrongfully convicted of had been wrongfully convicted of had been wrongfully convicted of sexually assaulting children and had sexually assaulting children and had sexually assaulting children and had each spent more than two decades in each spent more than two decades in each spent more than two decades in prison.

prison. prison. >> Anyone need a little blob of glue? At >> Anyone need a little blob of glue? At >> Anyone need a little blob of glue? At the next table, another woman who the next table, another woman who the next table, another woman who survived a sexual assault, sitting survived a sexual assault, sitting survived a sexual assault, sitting beside a man exonerated for rape and beside a man exonerated for rape and beside a man exonerated for rape and murder. And at our table, the partner murder. And at our table, the partner murder. And at our table, the partner and daughter of a murder victim. and daughter of a murder victim. and daughter of a murder victim. Everyone here part of a case where the Everyone here part of a case where the Everyone here part of a case where the wrong man was sent to prison for years wrong man was sent to prison for years wrong man was sent to prison for years and years. and years. and years. >> You have said that wrongful convictions >> You have said that wrongful convictions >> You have said that wrongful convictions aren't a single bullet. aren't a single bullet. aren't a single bullet. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> You said they're bombs. Mhm. >> You said they're bombs. Mhm. >> You said they're bombs. Mhm. >> A wrongful conviction doesn't hurt like >> A wrongful conviction doesn't hurt like >> A wrongful conviction doesn't hurt like a person. a person. a person. >> It's not just Raymond Tower got hurt. >> It's not just Raymond Tower got hurt. >> It's not just Raymond Tower got hurt. Like his whole family got shrapnel and Like his whole family got shrapnel and Like his whole family got shrapnel and the victims got shrapnel and the the victims got shrapnel and the the victims got shrapnel and the community received shrapnel because a community received shrapnel because a community received shrapnel because a child molester was still in the child molester was still in the child molester was still in the community. There's just so many people community. There's just so many people community. There's just so many people in a wrongful conviction in a wrongful conviction in a wrongful conviction >> case. >> case. >> case. >> I think it's hundreds of people for >> I think it's hundreds of people for >> I think it's hundreds of people for every single wrongful conviction case every single wrongful conviction case every single wrongful conviction case that are hurt. that are hurt. that are hurt. Jennifer Thompson was one of them. She Jennifer Thompson was one of them. She Jennifer Thompson was one of them. She was a college student in 1984 when a man was a college student in 1984 when a man was a college student in 1984 when a man broke into her off-campus apartment and broke into her off-campus apartment and broke into her off-campus apartment and raped her at knife point. Jennifer raped her at knife point. Jennifer raped her at knife point. Jennifer worked with police to create a composite worked with police to create a composite worked with police to create a composite sketch, then identified a man named sketch, then identified a man named sketch, then identified a man named Ronald Cotton in the photo and physical Ronald Cotton in the photo and physical Ronald Cotton in the photo and physical lineups police showed her. Jennifer lineups police showed her. Jennifer lineups police showed her. Jennifer testified in court against Ronald Cotton testified in court against Ronald Cotton testified in court against Ronald Cotton and was relieved when he received a life and was relieved when he received a life and was relieved when he received a life sentence.

But after 11 years in prison, DNA But after 11 years in prison, DNA testing proved Cotton's innocence and testing proved Cotton's innocence and testing proved Cotton's innocence and identified the actual rapist whose photo identified the actual rapist whose photo identified the actual rapist whose photo had not been in the lineup. [applause] had not been in the lineup. [applause] had not been in the lineup. [applause] Ronald Cotton was exonerated and Ronald Cotton was exonerated and Ronald Cotton was exonerated and Jennifer was racked with guilt as she Jennifer was racked with guilt as she Jennifer was racked with guilt as she told us in 2009. told us in 2009. told us in 2009. >> Shame. Shame. Terrible shame. >> Shame. Shame. Terrible shame. >> Shame. Shame. Terrible shame. Suffocating. Suffocating. Suffocating. debilitating shame. debilitating shame. debilitating shame. >> Jennifer turned that shame into action. >> Jennifer turned that shame into action. >> Jennifer turned that shame into action. She apologized to Ronald Cotton in She apologized to Ronald Cotton in She apologized to Ronald Cotton in person and then started speaking around person and then started speaking around person and then started speaking around the country to police and prosecutors, the country to police and prosecutors, the country to police and prosecutors, sometimes together with Cotton about how sometimes together with Cotton about how sometimes together with Cotton about how to make wrongful convictions less to make wrongful convictions less to make wrongful convictions less likely. [screaming] likely. [screaming] likely. [screaming] But over the years, as exonerations of But over the years, as exonerations of But over the years, as exonerations of the innocent have multiplied, the innocent have multiplied, the innocent have multiplied, >> finally we freed. >> finally we freed. >> finally we freed. >> With more than 3,800 freed so far, I'm >> With more than 3,800 freed so far, I'm >> With more than 3,800 freed so far, I'm free. free. free. >> Based on new evidence, including DNA, >> Based on new evidence, including DNA, >> Based on new evidence, including DNA, Jennifer began focusing in on what was Jennifer began focusing in on what was Jennifer began focusing in on what was being overlooked.

being overlooked. being overlooked. >> What do you think most people feel and >> What do you think most people feel and >> What do you think most people feel and see when they see an innocent man come see when they see an innocent man come see when they see an innocent man come out of prison? out of prison? out of prison? >> [applause and cheering] >> [applause and cheering] >> [applause and cheering] >> It's the day that that man or woman >> It's the day that that man or woman >> It's the day that that man or woman who's wrongfully incarcerated and their who's wrongfully incarcerated and their who's wrongfully incarcerated and their families are rejoicing. families are rejoicing. families are rejoicing. >> I know you didn't do it. I know. I know. >> I know you didn't do it. I know. I know. >> I know you didn't do it. I know. I know. >> It's the day they've been dreaming >> It's the day they've been dreaming >> It's the day they've been dreaming about. They've prayed for it. [cheering] about. They've prayed for it. [cheering] about. They've prayed for it. [cheering] >> They're on the court steps and their >> They're on the court steps and their >> They're on the court steps and their arms are raised high and it's a day of arms are raised high and it's a day of arms are raised high and it's a day of celebration. But for the crime victims, celebration. But for the crime victims, celebration. But for the crime victims, for the murder victim family members, for the murder victim family members, for the murder victim family members, they're sitting back here saying, "Hey, they're sitting back here saying, "Hey, they're sitting back here saying, "Hey, hold up a second. hold up a second. hold up a second. This is another nightmare on top of a This is another nightmare on top of a This is another nightmare on top of a nightmare. The victims have been nightmare. The victims have been nightmare. The victims have been forgotten. forgotten. forgotten. >> Victims, she says, like Tamishia >> Victims, she says, like Tamishia >> Victims, she says, like Tamishia Carrington Artist, who was 12 years old Carrington Artist, who was 12 years old Carrington Artist, who was 12 years old when a man broke into her bedroom and when a man broke into her bedroom and when a man broke into her bedroom and raped her. raped her. raped her. >> He grabbed me by my throat and put a >> He grabbed me by my throat and put a >> He grabbed me by my throat and put a knife to my throat and said if I knife to my throat and said if I knife to my throat and said if I screamed, he was going to kill me and my screamed, he was going to kill me and my screamed, he was going to kill me and my mom. mom. mom. >> Grabbed me from behind, put me in a >> Grabbed me from behind, put me in a >> Grabbed me from behind, put me in a chokeold. Penny Bernson sexually chokeold. Penny Bernson sexually chokeold. Penny Bernson sexually assaulted at age 36 as she went for an assaulted at age 36 as she went for an assaulted at age 36 as she went for an afternoon run along the shore of Lake afternoon run along the shore of Lake afternoon run along the shore of Lake Michigan.

Michigan. Michigan. >> And he said, "Now I'm going to kill you >> And he said, "Now I'm going to kill you >> And he said, "Now I'm going to kill you now. You're going to die." now. You're going to die." now. You're going to die." >> And Loretta Zillinger White, who was >> And Loretta Zillinger White, who was >> And Loretta Zillinger White, who was raped at age 15 on the way to school one raped at age 15 on the way to school one raped at age 15 on the way to school one morning after she'd missed her bus. morning after she'd missed her bus. morning after she'd missed her bus. >> It's hard. People expect you to >> It's hard. People expect you to >> It's hard. People expect you to just put it behind you and not think just put it behind you and not think just put it behind you and not think about it again. and they don't realize about it again. and they don't realize about it again. and they don't realize that it's going to affect you for the that it's going to affect you for the that it's going to affect you for the rest of your life. rest of your life. rest of your life. >> All these women like Jennifer had >> All these women like Jennifer had >> All these women like Jennifer had identified a suspect the police showed identified a suspect the police showed identified a suspect the police showed them only to learn years later that them only to learn years later that them only to learn years later that those men were innocent and they were those men were innocent and they were those men were innocent and they were gripped by a whole new nightmare. gripped by a whole new nightmare. gripped by a whole new nightmare. >> I felt so bad for for him because I felt >> I felt so bad for for him because I felt >> I felt so bad for for him because I felt like I sent this man to prison. That's like I sent this man to prison. That's like I sent this man to prison. That's all I could think about. I got scared. I all I could think about. I got scared. I all I could think about. I got scared. I felt like that he was going to try to felt like that he was going to try to felt like that he was going to try to come out and kill me. Yeah. I mean, I come out and kill me. Yeah. I mean, I come out and kill me. Yeah. I mean, I just just just I shut down. I shut down. I shut down. >> Did people blame you? >> Did people blame you? >> Did people blame you? >> Oh, absolutely. The first time I went >> Oh, absolutely. The first time I went >> Oh, absolutely. The first time I went out in public, out in public, out in public, a friend came up to me and said, "I a friend came up to me and said, "I a friend came up to me and said, "I can't believe you're showing your face."

can't believe you're showing your face." can't believe you're showing your face." >> They were saying that I needed to go to >> They were saying that I needed to go to >> They were saying that I needed to go to prison. Um prison. Um prison. Um >> Yes. that I intentionally sent the wrong >> Yes. that I intentionally sent the wrong >> Yes. that I intentionally sent the wrong man to prison. man to prison. man to prison. >> Oh my gosh. >> Oh my gosh. >> Oh my gosh. >> Yeah. It was bad. >> Yeah. It was bad. >> Yeah. It was bad. >> Yeah. Memory experts have long >> Yeah. Memory experts have long >> Yeah. Memory experts have long understood how crime victims can get it understood how crime victims can get it understood how crime victims can get it wrong. In our earlier story about wrong. In our earlier story about wrong. In our earlier story about Jennifer's case, Professor Gary Wells Jennifer's case, Professor Gary Wells Jennifer's case, Professor Gary Wells showed us a simulated crime scene and showed us a simulated crime scene and showed us a simulated crime scene and then a lineup. then a lineup. then a lineup. >> Now you know now after we've talked >> Now you know now after we've talked >> Now you know now after we've talked probably not to pick anyone. probably not to pick anyone. probably not to pick anyone. >> No. No. Actually, I know. I actually >> No. No. Actually, I know. I actually >> No. No. Actually, I know. I actually know who it is because if I had know who it is because if I had know who it is because if I had >> come upon that I think it's this guy. Am >> come upon that I think it's this guy. Am >> come upon that I think it's this guy. Am I wrong? I wrong? I wrong? >> Am I wrong? >> Am I wrong? >> Am I wrong? >> Yeah. I'm wrong. >> Yeah. I'm wrong. >> Yeah. I'm wrong. >> Yeah. It's none of them. [gasps] >> Yeah. It's none of them. [gasps] >> Yeah. It's none of them. [gasps] >> So, this is the >> So, this is the >> So, this is the >> studies have shown again and again when >> studies have shown again and again when >> studies have shown again and again when the actual perpetrator is not in the the actual perpetrator is not in the the actual perpetrator is not in the lineup, witnesses often pick the wrong lineup, witnesses often pick the wrong lineup, witnesses often pick the wrong man who then comes to replace the man who then comes to replace the man who then comes to replace the original offender in their memory of the original offender in their memory of the original offender in their memory of the crime. In Jennifer's case, and Tamisha crime. In Jennifer's case, and Tamisha crime. In Jennifer's case, and Tamisha and Penny's, the real perpetrators and Penny's, the real perpetrators and Penny's, the real perpetrators revealed by DNA years later had not been revealed by DNA years later had not been revealed by DNA years later had not been in the original lineups. 20 years later in the original lineups. 20 years later in the original lineups. 20 years later when they come to me and say, "By the when they come to me and say, "By the when they come to me and say, "By the way, way, way, >> I can't imagine.

>> I can't imagine. >> I can't imagine. >> The person who raped you never went to >> The person who raped you never went to >> The person who raped you never went to prison and the person we thought is prison and the person we thought is prison and the person we thought is innocent. See youa." And oh, by the way, innocent. See youa." And oh, by the way, innocent. See youa." And oh, by the way, it's all your fault. It's not the it's all your fault. It's not the it's all your fault. It's not the system's fault. I mean, here was my system's fault. I mean, here was my system's fault. I mean, here was my narrative. narrative. narrative. Rape victim falsely accuses an innocent Rape victim falsely accuses an innocent Rape victim falsely accuses an innocent man and sends him to prison. man and sends him to prison. man and sends him to prison. Everything's wrong with that because a Everything's wrong with that because a Everything's wrong with that because a false accusation denotes a lie. Deliver false accusation denotes a lie. Deliver false accusation denotes a lie. Deliver it. Why would a crime survivor, why it. Why would a crime survivor, why it. Why would a crime survivor, why would a victim want the wrong person to would a victim want the wrong person to would a victim want the wrong person to go to prison? That doesn't make any go to prison? That doesn't make any go to prison? That doesn't make any sense at all. sense at all. sense at all. >> You know, when you hear what you're >> You know, when you hear what you're >> You know, when you hear what you're saying, then we get it. But we don't saying, then we get it. But we don't saying, then we get it. But we don't hear it. As you said, there's a blazing hear it. As you said, there's a blazing hear it. As you said, there's a blazing headline. Man is freed. Person who headline. Man is freed. Person who headline. Man is freed. Person who fingered him got it wrong. fingered him got it wrong. fingered him got it wrong. >> That's it. And the system now doesn't >> That's it. And the system now doesn't >> That's it. And the system now doesn't get held accountable for how it failed get held accountable for how it failed get held accountable for how it failed me and it failed my family and it failed me and it failed my family and it failed me and it failed my family and it failed the innocent person. It failed the the innocent person. It failed the the innocent person. It failed the innocent person's family and it failed innocent person's family and it failed innocent person's family and it failed everybody.

everybody. everybody. That failure, Jennifer told us, is also That failure, Jennifer told us, is also That failure, Jennifer told us, is also devastating for families of murder devastating for families of murder devastating for families of murder victims, even when they played no role victims, even when they played no role victims, even when they played no role themselves in identifying the wrongfully themselves in identifying the wrongfully themselves in identifying the wrongfully convicted person. That's what happened convicted person. That's what happened convicted person. That's what happened to Andrea Harrison and her father, to Andrea Harrison and her father, to Andrea Harrison and her father, Dwayne Jones. Andrea's mother, Dwayne Jones. Andrea's mother, Dwayne Jones. Andrea's mother, Jacqueline, was raped and murdered in Jacqueline, was raped and murdered in Jacqueline, was raped and murdered in 1987 when Andrea was just 3 years old. 1987 when Andrea was just 3 years old. 1987 when Andrea was just 3 years old. >> It was one of the most horrendous >> It was one of the most horrendous >> It was one of the most horrendous crimes. Um, she was brutally raped, crimes. Um, she was brutally raped, crimes. Um, she was brutally raped, tortured. Someone found her body walking tortured. Someone found her body walking tortured. Someone found her body walking their dog. their dog. their dog. A local man named Larry Peterson spent A local man named Larry Peterson spent A local man named Larry Peterson spent more than 17 years in prison for the more than 17 years in prison for the more than 17 years in prison for the crime before DNA testing proved his crime before DNA testing proved his crime before DNA testing proved his innocence and he was released. innocence and he was released. innocence and he was released. >> Did you know that he was going to be >> Did you know that he was going to be >> Did you know that he was going to be released? Did they tell you? released? Did they tell you? released? Did they tell you? >> No. >> No. >> No. >> No. >> No. >> No. >> No. >> No. >> No. >> For many, many years, someone was tried, >> For many, many years, someone was tried, >> For many, many years, someone was tried, convicted, and put away. convicted, and put away. convicted, and put away. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And then you find out that the DNA >> And then you find out that the DNA >> And then you find out that the DNA doesn't match.

doesn't match. doesn't match. I mean, you go back into fight or I mean, you go back into fight or I mean, you go back into fight or flight. flight. flight. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You got scared. >> You got scared. >> You got scared. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. We did. >> Absolutely. We did. >> Absolutely. We did. >> Can you tell us of what >> Can you tell us of what >> Can you tell us of what >> who the person who's who's who hurt my >> who the person who's who's who hurt my >> who the person who's who's who hurt my mother? What happened to Jackie? Who did mother? What happened to Jackie? Who did mother? What happened to Jackie? Who did it? Whoever that person is, they're it? Whoever that person is, they're it? Whoever that person is, they're still out there. still out there. still out there. >> But since Larry Peterson's exoneration >> But since Larry Peterson's exoneration >> But since Larry Peterson's exoneration with the case now cold, they feel the with the case now cold, they feel the with the case now cold, they feel the original crime and victim have become an original crime and victim have become an original crime and victim have become an afterthought. afterthought. afterthought. >> It's always been, "What do you think >> It's always been, "What do you think >> It's always been, "What do you think about Mr. Peterson?" That is not my about Mr. Peterson?" That is not my about Mr. Peterson?" That is not my charge. I care about Jackie. I'm worried charge. I care about Jackie. I'm worried charge. I care about Jackie. I'm worried about Jackie. What about Jackie? about Jackie. What about Jackie? about Jackie. What about Jackie? >> But even while victims and their >> But even while victims and their >> But even while victims and their families are left reeling in the wake of families are left reeling in the wake of families are left reeling in the wake of wrongful convictions, Jennifer knows wrongful convictions, Jennifer knows wrongful convictions, Jennifer knows from her friendship with Ronald Cotton from her friendship with Ronald Cotton from her friendship with Ronald Cotton and her work with other exoneres. and her work with other exoneres. and her work with other exoneres. That heady, blissful first day of That heady, blissful first day of That heady, blissful first day of freedom is just the start of a tough freedom is just the start of a tough freedom is just the start of a tough yearslong struggle to rebuild. yearslong struggle to rebuild. yearslong struggle to rebuild. >> Freedom. Raymond Tower, exonerated after >> Freedom. Raymond Tower, exonerated after >> Freedom. Raymond Tower, exonerated after 29 years in prison, 29 years, plays in a 29 years in prison, 29 years, plays in a 29 years in prison, 29 years, plays in a band with other exoneres and says he band with other exoneres and says he band with other exoneres and says he struggles with the lingering stigma and struggles with the lingering stigma and struggles with the lingering stigma and hurt of being charged with such a hurt of being charged with such a hurt of being charged with such a heinous crime.

heinous crime. heinous crime. >> Tell us if it's not too painful what the >> Tell us if it's not too painful what the >> Tell us if it's not too painful what the crime was. crime was. crime was. >> It's painful. >> It's painful. >> It's painful. >> I know >> I know >> I know >> I'm laughing over it, but it is painful. >> I'm laughing over it, but it is painful. >> I'm laughing over it, but it is painful. But it it was rape of 11 and 12 year old But it it was rape of 11 and 12 year old But it it was rape of 11 and 12 year old kids. kids. kids. >> [applause] >> [applause] >> [applause] >> When DNA testing finally proved Tyler's >> When DNA testing finally proved Tyler's >> When DNA testing finally proved Tyler's innocence and won his freedom, he says innocence and won his freedom, he says innocence and won his freedom, he says it was thrilling, but also daunting. The it was thrilling, but also daunting. The it was thrilling, but also daunting. The adjustment was difficult. adjustment was difficult. adjustment was difficult. >> Yeah, I couldn't even really go out the >> Yeah, I couldn't even really go out the >> Yeah, I couldn't even really go out the door by myself. door by myself. door by myself. >> You don't feel like you fit in anywhere. >> You don't feel like you fit in anywhere. >> You don't feel like you fit in anywhere. At least I did. At least I did. At least I did. >> Exoner stories are often filled with >> Exoner stories are often filled with >> Exoner stories are often filled with egregious police and prosecutorial egregious police and prosecutorial egregious police and prosecutorial misconduct. In Chris Ooa's case, abusive misconduct. In Chris Ooa's case, abusive misconduct. In Chris Ooa's case, abusive interrogations that led to a false interrogations that led to a false interrogations that led to a false confession to rape and murder. For confession to rape and murder. For confession to rape and murder. For Howard Dudley, evidence withheld by Howard Dudley, evidence withheld by Howard Dudley, evidence withheld by prosecutors that likely would have prosecutors that likely would have prosecutors that likely would have cleared him of child sexual abuse, for cleared him of child sexual abuse, for cleared him of child sexual abuse, for which he served more than 23 years. which he served more than 23 years. which he served more than 23 years. >> I always dream of being there with my >> I always dream of being there with my >> I always dream of being there with my kids, see the football game, see them on kids, see the football game, see them on kids, see the football game, see them on the basketball court.

didn't get a chance to see none of that. didn't get a chance to see none of that. >> So, I would like for everybody to >> So, I would like for everybody to >> So, I would like for everybody to introduce themselves. introduce themselves. introduce themselves. >> So, Jennifer came up with a novel idea. >> So, Jennifer came up with a novel idea. >> So, Jennifer came up with a novel idea. >> So, I am Jennifer Thompson. I am a >> So, I am Jennifer Thompson. I am a >> So, I am Jennifer Thompson. I am a victim survivor. victim survivor. victim survivor. >> My name is Raymond Raymond Tyler. I'm >> My name is Raymond Raymond Tyler. I'm >> My name is Raymond Raymond Tyler. I'm exoner. exoner. exoner. >> My name is Loretta. >> My name is Loretta. >> My name is Loretta. >> She started an organization called >> She started an organization called >> She started an organization called Healing Justice that brings together Healing Justice that brings together Healing Justice that brings together exoneres. exoneres. exoneres. >> My name is Chris. I'm an exonery >> My name is Chris. I'm an exonery >> My name is Chris. I'm an exonery >> and crime victims. >> and crime victims. >> and crime victims. >> My name is Penny. >> My name is Penny. >> My name is Penny. >> All from different cases. >> All from different cases. >> All from different cases. >> I am Tamishia as well as family members. >> I am Tamishia as well as family members. >> I am Tamishia as well as family members. >> My brother was an exonery. My name is >> My brother was an exonery. My name is >> My brother was an exonery. My name is Andrea. Healing Justice paid to bring Andrea. Healing Justice paid to bring Andrea. Healing Justice paid to bring them from around the country to this them from around the country to this them from around the country to this rented retreat center in Virginia where rented retreat center in Virginia where rented retreat center in Virginia where they will spend three days sharing they will spend three days sharing they will spend three days sharing stories, stories, stories, playing games, [laughter] >> and eating all their meals together. >> and eating all their meals together. This is the 17th retreat healing justice This is the 17th retreat healing justice This is the 17th retreat healing justice has done. has done. has done. >> How effective is it when it's not the >> How effective is it when it's not the >> How effective is it when it's not the same crime?

same crime? same crime? >> Very effective. There's something >> Very effective. There's something >> Very effective. There's something powerful and healing when an exonery can powerful and healing when an exonery can powerful and healing when an exonery can hear what the victim in their case must hear what the victim in their case must hear what the victim in their case must have felt like. And for crime survivors, have felt like. And for crime survivors, have felt like. And for crime survivors, it's really healing to also hear about it's really healing to also hear about it's really healing to also hear about the experiences of exoneries. the experiences of exoneries. the experiences of exoneries. >> The biggest thing I lost >> The biggest thing I lost >> The biggest thing I lost was trust. was trust. was trust. >> Three days of emotional release, >> Three days of emotional release, >> Three days of emotional release, rebuilding trust, and healing. when we rebuilding trust, and healing. when we rebuilding trust, and healing. when we come back. Jennifer Thompson's goal when she Jennifer Thompson's goal when she created the nonprofit organization created the nonprofit organization created the nonprofit organization Healing Justice in 2015 was to help all Healing Justice in 2015 was to help all Healing Justice in 2015 was to help all groups harmed by wrongful convictions. groups harmed by wrongful convictions. groups harmed by wrongful convictions. Healing Justice now advises prosecutors Healing Justice now advises prosecutors Healing Justice now advises prosecutors officers around the country on dealing officers around the country on dealing officers around the country on dealing more effectively and empathetically with more effectively and empathetically with more effectively and empathetically with crime victims in exoneration cases. But crime victims in exoneration cases. But crime victims in exoneration cases. But it's what they call the healing side of it's what they call the healing side of it's what they call the healing side of their work that is most meaningful to their work that is most meaningful to their work that is most meaningful to Jennifer. She did course work in trauma Jennifer. She did course work in trauma Jennifer. She did course work in trauma recovery and worked with psychologists recovery and worked with psychologists recovery and worked with psychologists to design a program to safely bring to design a program to safely bring to design a program to safely bring together victims of crime and exoneres.

together victims of crime and exoneres. together victims of crime and exoneres. They work in small groups on the wounds They work in small groups on the wounds They work in small groups on the wounds left behind when the justice system gets left behind when the justice system gets left behind when the justice system gets it wrong. >> Nice. >> Nice. >> Remember the breaking and gluing back >> Remember the breaking and gluing back >> Remember the breaking and gluing back together of those bowls? together of those bowls? together of those bowls? >> Did anybody notice how fast and easy it >> Did anybody notice how fast and easy it >> Did anybody notice how fast and easy it was to break it and how hard it is to was to break it and how hard it is to was to break it and how hard it is to put it back together again? That was put it back together again? That was put it back together again? That was just the start of this retreat's opening just the start of this retreat's opening just the start of this retreat's opening exercise and perhaps a metaphor for the exercise and perhaps a metaphor for the exercise and perhaps a metaphor for the whole endeavor. whole endeavor. whole endeavor. >> So, what I'm going to ask you to do now >> So, what I'm going to ask you to do now >> So, what I'm going to ask you to do now >> is to paint your broken places with >> is to paint your broken places with >> is to paint your broken places with gold. This is actually 24 karat gold gold. This is actually 24 karat gold gold. This is actually 24 karat gold paint. paint. paint. >> She told us it's called kinugi. >> She told us it's called kinugi. >> She told us it's called kinugi. >> Kinugi. >> Kinugi. >> Kinugi. >> Kinugi. Mhm. What is that? It's the >> Kinugi. Mhm. What is that? It's the >> Kinugi. Mhm. What is that? It's the Japanese concept that even in our broken Japanese concept that even in our broken Japanese concept that even in our broken places, we're still beautiful because places, we're still beautiful because places, we're still beautiful because we're strong at our broken places and we're strong at our broken places and we're strong at our broken places and we're not disposable. we're not disposable. we're not disposable. >> But before they can paint their real >> But before they can paint their real >> But before they can paint their real wounds with gold, they have to look hard wounds with gold, they have to look hard wounds with gold, they have to look hard at the breaks that need repair.

at the breaks that need repair. at the breaks that need repair. >> That I lost part of my heart. So sitting >> That I lost part of my heart. So sitting >> That I lost part of my heart. So sitting in a circle using a rock to give whoever in a circle using a rock to give whoever in a circle using a rock to give whoever holds it the floor and with a healing holds it the floor and with a healing holds it the floor and with a healing justice social worker always present justice social worker always present justice social worker always present they talked about their losses they talked about their losses they talked about their losses >> I lost believing in myself I had so much >> I lost believing in myself I had so much >> I lost believing in myself I had so much confidence I had so much confidence I had so much confidence I had so much >> that first you know slamming the doors >> that first you know slamming the doors >> that first you know slamming the doors everything got real right then you know everything got real right then you know everything got real right then you know I seen people suicide I seen people suicide I seen people suicide uh death by cop just getting beat up, uh death by cop just getting beat up, uh death by cop just getting beat up, killed. You know, the talk comes back killed. You know, the talk comes back killed. You know, the talk comes back and I have to keep reminding myself, you and I have to keep reminding myself, you and I have to keep reminding myself, you know, right here, I'm in the present know, right here, I'm in the present know, right here, I'm in the present right now. right now. right now. Uh, Uh, Uh, >> the hardest part for me is hearing what >> the hardest part for me is hearing what >> the hardest part for me is hearing what the exoneries went through in prison. the exoneries went through in prison. the exoneries went through in prison. It's so hard to hear, but it's so It's so hard to hear, but it's so It's so hard to hear, but it's so necessary. So what I want to do today is necessary. So what I want to do today is necessary. So what I want to do today is >> on day two of the retreat, Jennifer led >> on day two of the retreat, Jennifer led >> on day two of the retreat, Jennifer led an exercise on how the harsh words used an exercise on how the harsh words used an exercise on how the harsh words used against each of them end up becoming against each of them end up becoming against each of them end up becoming internalized.

internalized. internalized. >> You might have been called a liar. You >> You might have been called a liar. You >> You might have been called a liar. You might have been called a rapist. And might have been called a rapist. And might have been called a rapist. And those words really do take on a life of those words really do take on a life of those words really do take on a life of their own. I'd like for you to write a their own. I'd like for you to write a their own. I'd like for you to write a letter to yourself from the space of the letter to yourself from the space of the letter to yourself from the space of the critical mind. That loop that plays in critical mind. That loop that plays in critical mind. That loop that plays in your head over and over again. You had your head over and over again. You had your head over and over again. You had them write letters. them write letters. them write letters. >> What was the purpose? >> What was the purpose? >> What was the purpose? >> I've done this before. Um, when they're >> I've done this before. Um, when they're >> I've done this before. Um, when they're writing it, they're not happy. And then writing it, they're not happy. And then writing it, they're not happy. And then I had them read it out loud to the I had them read it out loud to the I had them read it out loud to the circle. circle. circle. >> They didn't like it. >> They didn't like it. >> They didn't like it. >> Dear Chris, you failed in life. Why did >> Dear Chris, you failed in life. Why did >> Dear Chris, you failed in life. Why did you confess? I will never have you confess? I will never have you confess? I will never have confessed. confessed. confessed. >> Why can't you just be quiet? >> Why can't you just be quiet? >> Why can't you just be quiet? >> Dear Raymond, you are a angry black man. >> Dear Raymond, you are a angry black man. >> Dear Raymond, you are a angry black man. You will never know love. You will You will never know love. You will You will never know love. You will always be a prisoner. >> And then there was Loretta's. Dear >> And then there was Loretta's. Dear Loretta, Loretta, Loretta, you deserve to be raped and beaten. You you deserve to be raped and beaten. You you deserve to be raped and beaten. You really don't deserve to be alive.

You aren't brave nor strong. You are a You aren't brave nor strong. You are a failure as a woman and a mother. failure as a woman and a mother. failure as a woman and a mother. Loretta, Jennifer told us, faces one of Loretta, Jennifer told us, faces one of Loretta, Jennifer told us, faces one of the most excruciating situations for a the most excruciating situations for a the most excruciating situations for a victim in an exoneration case when the victim in an exoneration case when the victim in an exoneration case when the DNA clears one man, but doesn't identify DNA clears one man, but doesn't identify DNA clears one man, but doesn't identify who the actual asalent was. who the actual asalent was. who the actual asalent was. >> I'm stuck. >> I'm stuck. >> I'm stuck. >> She told us she reles the assault daily >> She told us she reles the assault daily >> She told us she reles the assault daily and can't get the exonerated man's face and can't get the exonerated man's face and can't get the exonerated man's face out of her memory. So even though he was out of her memory. So even though he was out of her memory. So even though he was cleared through DNA, his face is still cleared through DNA, his face is still cleared through DNA, his face is still there. there. there. >> Yes. The DNA said it wasn't him. >> Yes. The DNA said it wasn't him. >> Yes. The DNA said it wasn't him. [snorts] >> You didn't believe it. >> You didn't believe it. >> No, I feel guilty [snorts] [snorts] cuz I feel like I did something wrong. cuz I feel like I did something wrong. cuz I feel like I did something wrong. So, you're having both the feeling that So, you're having both the feeling that So, you're having both the feeling that he was the one and that you did he was the one and that you did he was the one and that you did something wrong. something wrong. something wrong. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Oh my god. You really are stuck.

>> Oh my god. You really are stuck. >> Oh my god. You really are stuck. >> I don't know who did this. >> I don't know who did this. >> I don't know who did this. >> Is it >> Is it >> Is it >> for Andrea Harrison, whose mother's >> for Andrea Harrison, whose mother's >> for Andrea Harrison, whose mother's killer also remains unknown. It's a killer also remains unknown. It's a killer also remains unknown. It's a familiar struggle. familiar struggle. familiar struggle. >> What was told to me was that he was the >> What was told to me was that he was the >> What was told to me was that he was the person who murdered my mother. And so, person who murdered my mother. And so, person who murdered my mother. And so, that was a belief of mine for a lot of that was a belief of mine for a lot of that was a belief of mine for a lot of years. I can't get that out of my years. I can't get that out of my years. I can't get that out of my [clears throat] head. on his side of it. [clears throat] head. on his side of it. [clears throat] head. on his side of it. >> I mean, that's sad. >> I mean, that's sad. >> I mean, that's sad. >> It is sad. >> It is sad. >> It is sad. >> It is sad. >> It is sad. >> It is sad. >> The justice system failed him just like >> The justice system failed him just like >> The justice system failed him just like it did us. it did us. it did us. >> Until now, Andrea and her father had not >> Until now, Andrea and her father had not >> Until now, Andrea and her father had not been willing to attend a retreat with been willing to attend a retreat with been willing to attend a retreat with exoneres present. exoneres present. exoneres present. >> Do you think that the exonerated person >> Do you think that the exonerated person >> Do you think that the exonerated person and the victim are almost pitted against and the victim are almost pitted against and the victim are almost pitted against each other when they shouldn't be? each other when they shouldn't be? each other when they shouldn't be? They're both victims of the same They're both victims of the same They're both victims of the same perpetrator. who knows someone's sitting perpetrator. who knows someone's sitting perpetrator. who knows someone's sitting in jail for what he or she did. in jail for what he or she did. in jail for what he or she did. >> That's right. At the end of the day, >> That's right. At the end of the day, >> That's right. At the end of the day, when an innocent person's in prison, a when an innocent person's in prison, a when an innocent person's in prison, a guilty person's not. We should all be guilty person's not. We should all be guilty person's not. We should all be concerned about that. concerned about that. concerned about that. >> And maybe they go off and do it many >> And maybe they go off and do it many >> And maybe they go off and do it many more times.

more times. more times. >> In my case, the person who wasn't caught >> In my case, the person who wasn't caught >> In my case, the person who wasn't caught committed six more first-degree rapes committed six more first-degree rapes committed six more first-degree rapes before he was ever apprehended. before he was ever apprehended. before he was ever apprehended. >> I just love that we're here working on >> I just love that we're here working on >> I just love that we're here working on this. In the circle, after reading the this. In the circle, after reading the this. In the circle, after reading the critical letters, Jennifer turned the critical letters, Jennifer turned the critical letters, Jennifer turned the tables. tables. tables. >> So, I want you to write a second letter >> So, I want you to write a second letter >> So, I want you to write a second letter now to yourself now to yourself now to yourself from the self-compassion voice, the from the self-compassion voice, the from the self-compassion voice, the voice that you would use for the person voice that you would use for the person voice that you would use for the person you love the most. So, they rewrote it. you love the most. So, they rewrote it. you love the most. So, they rewrote it. >> They did. They turned >> They did. They turned >> They did. They turned >> Oh, yeah. And then they read that out >> Oh, yeah. And then they read that out >> Oh, yeah. And then they read that out loud in their faces. They smiled when loud in their faces. They smiled when loud in their faces. They smiled when they read it. they read it. they read it. >> Dear Raymond, you have a kind heart. You >> Dear Raymond, you have a kind heart. You >> Dear Raymond, you have a kind heart. You are loved. Raymond, your dreams have are loved. Raymond, your dreams have are loved. Raymond, your dreams have come true and you are free to dream more come true and you are free to dream more come true and you are free to dream more and create. and create. and create. >> You are a great mother, grandmother, >> You are a great mother, grandmother, >> You are a great mother, grandmother, wife, daughter, sister, friend, and so wife, daughter, sister, friend, and so wife, daughter, sister, friend, and so on and on. Keep going. You got this. on and on. Keep going. You got this. on and on. Keep going. You got this. >> I've seen you stumble and I've seen you >> I've seen you stumble and I've seen you >> I've seen you stumble and I've seen you bounce right back. bounce right back. bounce right back. >> Dear Loretta, you know that it's never >> Dear Loretta, you know that it's never >> Dear Loretta, you know that it's never too late to follow your dreams. You too late to follow your dreams. You too late to follow your dreams. You should never stop believing in yourself.

should never stop believing in yourself. should never stop believing in yourself. You didn't deserve to be hurt by anyone You didn't deserve to be hurt by anyone You didn't deserve to be hurt by anyone or anything. I will always be your or anything. I will always be your or anything. I will always be your biggest fan and supporter. I love you. biggest fan and supporter. I love you. biggest fan and supporter. I love you. Well, that was different. So, why is it Well, that was different. So, why is it Well, that was different. So, why is it that we speak to ourselves in a way that that we speak to ourselves in a way that that we speak to ourselves in a way that we would never speak to the people that we would never speak to the people that we would never speak to the people that we love? we love? we love? >> Something I need to change, you know, is >> Something I need to change, you know, is >> Something I need to change, you know, is that it was actually harder to write the that it was actually harder to write the that it was actually harder to write the happy letter for me. I do believe the happy letter for me. I do believe the happy letter for me. I do believe the good things about myself, but I don't good things about myself, but I don't good things about myself, but I don't think I really say them to myself think I really say them to myself think I really say them to myself enough. And the reality is, if we really enough. And the reality is, if we really enough. And the reality is, if we really want to to do good in the world, hating want to to do good in the world, hating want to to do good in the world, hating ourselves serves nobody ourselves serves nobody ourselves serves nobody at all. at all. at all. >> Who's ready? >> Who's ready? >> Who's ready? >> After two emotionfilled days came a >> After two emotionfilled days came a >> After two emotionfilled days came a scene we weren't expecting. scene we weren't expecting. scene we weren't expecting. >> Catch it. >> Catch it. >> Catch it. >> The group gathered together for improv >> The group gathered together for improv >> The group gathered together for improv games. games. games. >> Ribbit. Ribbit. >> Ribbit. Ribbit. >> Ribbit. Ribbit. >> Acting like animals. You play a lot of games.

You play a lot of games. >> Well, the games are just really a way of >> Well, the games are just really a way of >> Well, the games are just really a way of inviting that child to come back and inviting that child to come back and inviting that child to come back and play again. If you feel safe, you can play again. If you feel safe, you can play again. If you feel safe, you can pretend like you're a monkey. [laughter] You can do all kinds of ridiculous You can do all kinds of ridiculous things and it's okay because everybody things and it's okay because everybody things and it's okay because everybody else is doing it, too. else is doing it, too. else is doing it, too. >> I know, but don't you feel guilty. We >> I know, but don't you feel guilty. We >> I know, but don't you feel guilty. We noticed a loosening and connecting later noticed a loosening and connecting later noticed a loosening and connecting later that night over an art project. The kind that night over an art project. The kind that night over an art project. The kind of impromptu conversation Jennifer says of impromptu conversation Jennifer says of impromptu conversation Jennifer says this retreat is all about. this retreat is all about. this retreat is all about. >> How can somebody look at me and think >> How can somebody look at me and think >> How can somebody look at me and think that I would do something so heinous that I would do something so heinous that I would do something so heinous like that? That's part of the trauma for like that? That's part of the trauma for like that? That's part of the trauma for me. me. me. >> When you hear some of our stories, do >> When you hear some of our stories, do >> When you hear some of our stories, do you ever like blame us you ever like blame us you ever like blame us >> like me? by >> like me? by >> like me? by >> being a exonery and >> being a exonery and >> being a exonery and >> Yeah. Do you ever see yourself blaming >> Yeah. Do you ever see yourself blaming >> Yeah. Do you ever see yourself blaming the victims for the victims for the victims for >> you didn't do anything wrong? >> you didn't do anything wrong? >> you didn't do anything wrong? >> It's not your fault.

>> The next morning, as they gathered in >> The next morning, as they gathered in the circle for the third and final day, the circle for the third and final day, the circle for the third and final day, >> I feel blessed. >> I feel blessed. >> I feel blessed. >> I feel light as a feather. >> I feel light as a feather. >> I feel light as a feather. >> The mood had shifted dramatically. I >> The mood had shifted dramatically. I >> The mood had shifted dramatically. I feel um feel um feel um open. I feel courageous. open. I feel courageous. open. I feel courageous. >> I feel nurtured. Even though it's >> I feel nurtured. Even though it's >> I feel nurtured. Even though it's painful to let it out, I think you guys painful to let it out, I think you guys painful to let it out, I think you guys do it because you know it's going to do it because you know it's going to do it because you know it's going to help the next person. help the next person. help the next person. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And it has. >> And it has. >> And it has. >> So, how did the retreat go? >> So, how did the retreat go? >> So, how did the retreat go? >> Very enlightening, >> Very enlightening, >> Very enlightening, very powerful. very powerful. very powerful. >> We took off the mask that everybody >> We took off the mask that everybody >> We took off the mask that everybody sees. What questions did you ask each sees. What questions did you ask each sees. What questions did you ask each other exoneries to crime victims and other exoneries to crime victims and other exoneries to crime victims and back around? back around? back around? >> I asked what happened to you and >> I asked what happened to you and >> I asked what happened to you and everyone was honest everyone was honest everyone was honest >> and everybody was honest. I asked right >> and everybody was honest. I asked right >> and everybody was honest. I asked right away I shook Mr. Howard's hand and I away I shook Mr. Howard's hand and I away I shook Mr. Howard's hand and I feel for this man and my other two feel for this man and my other two feel for this man and my other two friends back there that are exoneres. I friends back there that are exoneres. I friends back there that are exoneres. I see it now cuz we only looked from our see it now cuz we only looked from our see it now cuz we only looked from our side of the table. We never seen it from side of the table. We never seen it from side of the table. We never seen it from their side. I had that fear even when I their side. I had that fear even when I their side. I had that fear even when I came here. I didn't know if I I'll be came here. I didn't know if I I'll be came here. I didn't know if I I'll be coming into hate because I was exonery coming into hate because I was exonery coming into hate because I was exonery cuz you know nobody believed me for you cuz you know nobody believed me for you cuz you know nobody believed me for you know 30 years.

know 30 years. know 30 years. >> I I think we believe it. I >> I I think we believe it. I >> I I think we believe it. I >> thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> We do. [laughter] >> We do. [laughter] >> We do. [laughter] I had questions myself for an exonery I had questions myself for an exonery I had questions myself for an exonery and I was able to build up the courage and I was able to build up the courage and I was able to build up the courage to even ask Raymond because I still hold to even ask Raymond because I still hold to even ask Raymond because I still hold this guilt and I was finally able to let this guilt and I was finally able to let this guilt and I was finally able to let it go after talking to him. I knew he it go after talking to him. I knew he it go after talking to him. I knew he was speaking from his heart and it took was speaking from his heart and it took was speaking from his heart and it took 30 years 30 years 30 years for him to let me get that guilt off of for him to let me get that guilt off of for him to let me get that guilt off of me. me. me. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. I thank you. >> May you keep spreading your love to >> May you keep spreading your love to everyone that needs it. everyone that needs it. everyone that needs it. >> So, as the retreat drew to a close, they >> So, as the retreat drew to a close, they >> So, as the retreat drew to a close, they clasped hands and shared wishes for one clasped hands and shared wishes for one clasped hands and shared wishes for one another. another. another. >> Penny, may you continue on your journey >> Penny, may you continue on your journey >> Penny, may you continue on your journey of healing? of healing? of healing? >> What happened in your case that allowed >> What happened in your case that allowed >> What happened in your case that allowed you to heal? you to heal? you to heal? I think I'll always be healing. But I I think I'll always be healing. But I I think I'll always be healing. But I think what has helped me more than think what has helped me more than think what has helped me more than anything is the relationships I built anything is the relationships I built anything is the relationships I built along the way with people that that have along the way with people that that have along the way with people that that have been harmed and hurt just like me.

been harmed and hurt just like me. been harmed and hurt just like me. >> Cuz you're helping other people. >> Cuz you're helping other people. >> Cuz you're helping other people. Jennifer, may you always be in our lives Jennifer, may you always be in our lives Jennifer, may you always be in our lives and may you always be courageous as you and may you always be courageous as you and may you always be courageous as you >> I'm helping other people, but what they >> I'm helping other people, but what they >> I'm helping other people, but what they don't realize is they're also helping don't realize is they're also helping don't realize is they're also helping me. [laughter] [laughter] >> I didn't know that move. >> I didn't know that move. >> I didn't know that move. >> They're healing. They are healing and I >> They're healing. They are healing and I >> They're healing. They are healing and I want to walk with them on that journey. want to walk with them on that journey. want to walk with them on that journey. [applause] >> A bit of good news. Three of the >> A bit of good news. Three of the exoneres have gotten married since our exoneres have gotten married since our exoneres have gotten married since our story first aired. Congratulations to story first aired. Congratulations to story first aired. Congratulations to Howard Dudley, Chris Ooa, and Raymond Howard Dudley, Chris Ooa, and Raymond Howard Dudley, Chris Ooa, and Raymond Tower.