Martha Stewart | 60 Minutes Archive

>> If you think that the ignominious fall >> If you think that the ignominious fall from grace of Martha Stewart is the last from grace of Martha Stewart is the last from grace of Martha Stewart is the last we've heard from this remarkable woman, we've heard from this remarkable woman, we've heard from this remarkable woman, you do not know Martha Stewart. She you do not know Martha Stewart. She you do not know Martha Stewart. She seems to thrive on adversity, often seems to thrive on adversity, often seems to thrive on adversity, often leaving a wake of battered enemies and leaving a wake of battered enemies and leaving a wake of battered enemies and friends behind. friends behind. friends behind. For 9 years on both 60 Minutes and 60 For 9 years on both 60 Minutes and 60 For 9 years on both 60 Minutes and 60 Minutes II, we've been sort of keeping Minutes II, we've been sort of keeping Minutes II, we've been sort of keeping tabs on her, following the arc from tabs on her, following the arc from tabs on her, following the arc from so-called domestic diva to corporate so-called domestic diva to corporate so-called domestic diva to corporate billionaire. billionaire. billionaire. In the light of her disgrace, the guilty In the light of her disgrace, the guilty In the light of her disgrace, the guilty verdict last Friday, some of those verdict last Friday, some of those verdict last Friday, some of those conversations now reveal a certain conversations now reveal a certain conversations now reveal a certain irony. For example, back in 1995 at her irony. For example, back in 1995 at her irony. For example, back in 1995 at her estate in Connecticut, where I asked her estate in Connecticut, where I asked her estate in Connecticut, where I asked her about the importance of material wealth. about the importance of material wealth. about the importance of material wealth. >> To tell you the truth, I could leave >> To tell you the truth, I could leave >> To tell you the truth, I could leave this place tomorrow, this place tomorrow, this place tomorrow, except for my animals except for my animals except for my animals and my family. I could leave this place and my family. I could leave this place and my family. I could leave this place tomorrow and not feel any sense of loss tomorrow and not feel any sense of loss tomorrow and not feel any sense of loss whatsoever, because I know with my whatsoever, because I know with my whatsoever, because I know with my knowledge, I could go anywhere and knowledge, I could go anywhere and knowledge, I could go anywhere and create a life for myself and create a create a life for myself and create a create a life for myself and create a feeling that I'm I feel comfortable with feeling that I'm I feel comfortable with feeling that I'm I feel comfortable with without having what I already have.

without having what I already have. without having what I already have. >> And start all over again? >> And start all over again? >> And start all over again? >> Oh, sure. No problem. >> Oh, sure. No problem. >> Oh, sure. No problem. I wouldn't miss a thing. >> Last Friday may have been her darkest >> Last Friday may have been her darkest day. day. day. Her finest hour came in the fall of 1999 Her finest hour came in the fall of 1999 Her finest hour came in the fall of 1999 on the floor of the New York Stock on the floor of the New York Stock on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange when to the sound of bells, Exchange when to the sound of bells, Exchange when to the sound of bells, the private Martha went public, leaving the private Martha went public, leaving the private Martha went public, leaving no doubt that Martha Stewart was not no doubt that Martha Stewart was not no doubt that Martha Stewart was not just living, she was reaching for the just living, she was reaching for the just living, she was reaching for the sun. sun. sun. The occasion was the public offering of The occasion was the public offering of The occasion was the public offering of shares in her company, 7.2 million shares in her company, 7.2 million shares in her company, 7.2 million shares. They opened that day at $18, shares. They opened that day at $18, shares. They opened that day at $18, soared to 52, and settled at $36. soared to 52, and settled at $36. soared to 52, and settled at $36. With Martha Stewart's personal 70% stake With Martha Stewart's personal 70% stake With Martha Stewart's personal 70% stake in the company, by the end of that day, in the company, by the end of that day, in the company, by the end of that day, she was 1.2 billion dollars richer. she was 1.2 billion dollars richer. she was 1.2 billion dollars richer. >> No other woman has created this kind of >> No other woman has created this kind of >> No other woman has created this kind of business in such a short time, business in such a short time, business in such a short time, from scratch, from, you know, baking from scratch, from, you know, baking from scratch, from, you know, baking cookies in the basement. If you can find cookies in the basement. If you can find cookies in the basement. If you can find that person, let me know who took a that person, let me know who took a that person, let me know who took a company public and in the first day, you company public and in the first day, you company public and in the first day, you know, made, you know, over a billion know, made, you know, over a billion know, made, you know, over a billion dollars. I dollars. I dollars. I >> And all of it done without an ounce of >> And all of it done without an ounce of >> And all of it done without an ounce of humility.

humility. humility. Nine years ago, she had already become Nine years ago, she had already become Nine years ago, she had already become Martha Stewart the brand, a walking, Martha Stewart the brand, a walking, Martha Stewart the brand, a walking, talking, multi-million dollar, talking, multi-million dollar, talking, multi-million dollar, one-person corporation. There was only one-person corporation. There was only one-person corporation. There was only one direction, one direction, one direction, up. up. up. You have now entered the culture, You have now entered the culture, You have now entered the culture, whether you like it or not, whether you like it or not, whether you like it or not, as as a kind of icon. as as a kind of icon. as as a kind of icon. You have. You're everywhere. You have. You're everywhere. You have. You're everywhere. >> Well, icons are either believed or not >> Well, icons are either believed or not >> Well, icons are either believed or not believed. Icons are reviled or or believed. Icons are reviled or or believed. Icons are reviled or or admired. admired. admired. Um, I know all about icons from history. Um, I know all about icons from history. Um, I know all about icons from history. Um, and if that's what it takes to be an Um, and if that's what it takes to be an Um, and if that's what it takes to be an icon, then, you know, and if if it's my icon, then, you know, and if if it's my icon, then, you know, and if if it's my kind of work that is um encouraging kind of work that is um encouraging kind of work that is um encouraging these sentiments, then um I either sort these sentiments, then um I either sort these sentiments, then um I either sort of like ignore it or feel sorry for it of like ignore it or feel sorry for it of like ignore it or feel sorry for it or just, you know, don't pay any or just, you know, don't pay any or just, you know, don't pay any attention. >> It was a name and face revered by >> It was a name and face revered by millions. And what she was selling was millions. And what she was selling was millions. And what she was selling was that most indefinable and ambiguous that most indefinable and ambiguous that most indefinable and ambiguous [music] of all products, taste.

[music] of all products, taste. [music] of all products, taste. >> He's open my schedule. >> He's open my schedule. >> He's open my schedule. >> In books, in the Martha Stewart >> In books, in the Martha Stewart >> In books, in the Martha Stewart magazine, on the Martha Stewart magazine, on the Martha Stewart magazine, on the Martha Stewart television series, she became the television series, she became the television series, she became the American goddess of the kitchen, living American goddess of the kitchen, living American goddess of the kitchen, living room, garden, and boudoir. >> Yeah, call it call it into the magazine >> Yeah, call it call it into the magazine and and get me. and and get me. and and get me. >> But when you peeled away all the hype, >> But when you peeled away all the hype, >> But when you peeled away all the hype, the perfection in every department, the perfection in every department, the perfection in every department, >> Okay, we'll find out that number and >> Okay, we'll find out that number and >> Okay, we'll find out that number and call me back at the office. call me back at the office. call me back at the office. >> What you got is what you started with. >> What you got is what you started with. >> What you got is what you started with. >> Oh, great. I'll have a dinner. >> Oh, great. I'll have a dinner. >> Oh, great. I'll have a dinner. >> Martha Stewart. She was, someone said, >> Martha Stewart. She was, someone said, >> Martha Stewart. She was, someone said, as focused as a bullet in flight. as focused as a bullet in flight. as focused as a bullet in flight. >> Find out if there's somebody else that >> Find out if there's somebody else that >> Find out if there's somebody else that can fill in for the next 2 weeks. can fill in for the next 2 weeks. can fill in for the next 2 weeks. >> This image or this symbol of in- >> This image or this symbol of in- >> This image or this symbol of in- peccable taste, of ingenuity, of peccable taste, of ingenuity, of peccable taste, of ingenuity, of gastronomy, of botany, of agronomy, gastronomy, of botany, of agronomy, gastronomy, of botany, of agronomy, animal husbandry. animal husbandry. animal husbandry. What are the one or perhaps two things What are the one or perhaps two things What are the one or perhaps two things you can't do? you can't do? you can't do? >> I can't concentrate on games. >> I can't concentrate on games. >> I can't concentrate on games. I lose my concentration really fast. I lose my concentration really fast. I lose my concentration really fast. >> So, you do not, Billy, abide frivolous >> So, you do not, Billy, abide frivolous >> So, you do not, Billy, abide frivolous things, frivolous activities. things, frivolous activities. things, frivolous activities. >> Not much.

>> Not much. >> Not much. >> It all started as a small home-based >> It all started as a small home-based >> It all started as a small home-based catering business in 1976. catering business in 1976. catering business in 1976. >> I love that. >> I love that. >> I love that. >> And became Martha Stewart Living >> And became Martha Stewart Living >> And became Martha Stewart Living Enterprises, probably the only Enterprises, probably the only Enterprises, probably the only one-woman, one-person conglomerate. one-woman, one-person conglomerate. one-woman, one-person conglomerate. >> They fall apart really fast. Photograph >> They fall apart really fast. Photograph >> They fall apart really fast. Photograph from the in bloom would be so beautiful. from the in bloom would be so beautiful. from the in bloom would be so beautiful. >> How about the compote with the balls? >> How about the compote with the balls? >> How about the compote with the balls? >> All of its value embodied in this >> All of its value embodied in this >> All of its value embodied in this uncompromising body. uncompromising body. uncompromising body. Parody was irresistible. Her magazine, Parody was irresistible. Her magazine, Parody was irresistible. Her magazine, Martha Stewart Living, led to is Martha Martha Stewart Living, led to is Martha Martha Stewart Living, led to is Martha Stewart Living, a funny, sometimes cruel Stewart Living, a funny, sometimes cruel Stewart Living, a funny, sometimes cruel version of our lady of perpetual version of our lady of perpetual version of our lady of perpetual perfection, offering such handy tips as perfection, offering such handy tips as perfection, offering such handy tips as making your own condoms and how to making your own condoms and how to making your own condoms and how to sweep. sweep. sweep. >> They're having me make dirt. >> They're having me make dirt. >> They're having me make dirt. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> They're having me make water. >> They're having me make water. >> They're having me make water. They're having me make air. You know, They're having me make air. You know, They're having me make air. You know, guess who makes those things? I don't guess who makes those things? I don't guess who makes those things? I don't make those things. There's somebody else make those things. There's somebody else make those things. There's somebody else out there that made those things. out there that made those things. out there that made those things. >> This study in middle-aged American >> This study in middle-aged American >> This study in middle-aged American elegance started life as Martha Kostyra elegance started life as Martha Kostyra elegance started life as Martha Kostyra of Nutley, New Jersey, one of six of Nutley, New Jersey, one of six of Nutley, New Jersey, one of six children in a working-class family.

children in a working-class family. children in a working-class family. She does not believe in the work ethic. She does not believe in the work ethic. She does not believe in the work ethic. She is the work ethic. She is the work ethic. She is the work ethic. She was a favorite of fashion She was a favorite of fashion She was a favorite of fashion photographers, earning her way through photographers, earning her way through photographers, earning her way through Barnard College in New York, where she Barnard College in New York, where she Barnard College in New York, where she was a star student. Then marriage, the was a star student. Then marriage, the was a star student. Then marriage, the suburbs, family. suburbs, family. suburbs, family. >> I did have the perfect baby and the >> I did have the perfect baby and the >> I did have the perfect baby and the perfect young child. And I did have the perfect young child. And I did have the perfect young child. And I did have the perfect house and I I've done all that perfect house and I I've done all that perfect house and I I've done all that already. already. already. >> She neglects to mention the perfect >> She neglects to mention the perfect >> She neglects to mention the perfect husband, Andy Stewart, a publisher, who husband, Andy Stewart, a publisher, who husband, Andy Stewart, a publisher, who became imperfect and left her after 29 became imperfect and left her after 29 became imperfect and left her after 29 years of marriage. That was just about years of marriage. That was just about years of marriage. That was just about the time Martha Stewart became Martha the time Martha Stewart became Martha the time Martha Stewart became Martha Stewart. Stewart. Stewart. >> I can't think of another example where a >> I can't think of another example where a >> I can't think of another example where a an entire corporation, which is what you an entire corporation, which is what you an entire corporation, which is what you are, is really are, is really are, is really one person. one person. one person. That's it. I mean, apart from the help That's it. I mean, apart from the help That's it. I mean, apart from the help >> It is a peculiar situation and it's it's >> It is a peculiar situation and it's it's >> It is a peculiar situation and it's it's It's a single-person kind of corporation It's a single-person kind of corporation It's a single-person kind of corporation because I have a name that's on the because I have a name that's on the because I have a name that's on the magazine, that's on the television show, magazine, that's on the television show, magazine, that's on the television show, that's on the books.

that's on the books. that's on the books. >> But >> But >> But there has to nevertheless be a there has to nevertheless be a there has to nevertheless be a difference between that person we see on difference between that person we see on difference between that person we see on the television broadcasts and the the television broadcasts and the the television broadcasts and the magazine and the beautifully produced magazine and the beautifully produced magazine and the beautifully produced books books books and the person I'm talking to right now. and the person I'm talking to right now. and the person I'm talking to right now. What is the difference? What is the difference? What is the difference? >> Well, there's not really much of a >> Well, there's not really much of a >> Well, there's not really much of a difference. I am Martha Stewart and and difference. I am Martha Stewart and and difference. I am Martha Stewart and and my business has become also Martha my business has become also Martha my business has become also Martha Stewart. That's the complicated thing Stewart. That's the complicated thing Stewart. That's the complicated thing for the people who work with me. for the people who work with me. for the people who work with me. >> Complicated because there was no >> Complicated because there was no >> Complicated because there was no separation in her life. All work was separation in her life. All work was separation in her life. All work was fun, all fun was work. fun, all fun was work. fun, all fun was work. Do you ever kind of wake up in the Do you ever kind of wake up in the Do you ever kind of wake up in the middle of the night screaming, middle of the night screaming, middle of the night screaming, terrified? terrified? terrified? >> Oh, terrified or happy? >> Oh, terrified or happy? >> Oh, terrified or happy? >> I both. >> I both. >> I both. >> Oh, I'm not terrified at all. I'm very >> Oh, I'm not terrified at all. I'm very >> Oh, I'm not terrified at all. I'm very happy. happy. happy. >> Back then, the Stewart empire occupied >> Back then, the Stewart empire occupied >> Back then, the Stewart empire occupied five floors in New York's highest rent five floors in New York's highest rent five floors in New York's highest rent district and had 400 employees. district and had 400 employees. district and had 400 employees. Her magazines had 9 million subscribers, Her magazines had 9 million subscribers, Her magazines had 9 million subscribers, her books 8 and 1/2 million sold. her books 8 and 1/2 million sold. her books 8 and 1/2 million sold. It's estimated that Martha Stewart has It's estimated that Martha Stewart has It's estimated that Martha Stewart has now lost nearly $400 million on now lost nearly $400 million on now lost nearly $400 million on legal fees and lost business legal fees and lost business legal fees and lost business opportunities and may lose millions more opportunities and may lose millions more opportunities and may lose millions more when fines are imposed.

when fines are imposed. when fines are imposed. >> Our little nut with a little nut on top. >> Our little nut with a little nut on top. >> Our little nut with a little nut on top. >> The losses are stunning. It seems >> The losses are stunning. It seems >> The losses are stunning. It seems unlikely she'll be able to remain on the unlikely she'll be able to remain on the unlikely she'll be able to remain on the board of the company she founded. The board of the company she founded. The board of the company she founded. The New York Times syndicate removed her New York Times syndicate removed her New York Times syndicate removed her name from her columns and her television name from her columns and her television name from her columns and her television career may also be coming to an end. For career may also be coming to an end. For career may also be coming to an end. For years her program was broadcast on years her program was broadcast on years her program was broadcast on various CBS stations. various CBS stations. various CBS stations. >> The next Martha Stewart Living. >> The next Martha Stewart Living. >> The next Martha Stewart Living. >> Today we're going to teach you all about >> Today we're going to teach you all about >> Today we're going to teach you all about color diamonds [music] and gems. color diamonds [music] and gems. color diamonds [music] and gems. >> After the guilty verdict, those stations >> After the guilty verdict, those stations >> After the guilty verdict, those stations immediately dropped her. immediately dropped her. immediately dropped her. And Martha Stewart, the brand, And Martha Stewart, the brand, And Martha Stewart, the brand, Kmart remained silent about continuing Kmart remained silent about continuing Kmart remained silent about continuing their relationship with Stewart. But their relationship with Stewart. But their relationship with Stewart. But when we talked to her in 1999, her sales when we talked to her in 1999, her sales when we talked to her in 1999, her sales through Kmart alone were $1 billion. through Kmart alone were $1 billion. through Kmart alone were $1 billion. As we said then, Martha Stewart wanted As we said then, Martha Stewart wanted As we said then, Martha Stewart wanted to fill every casual, practical, and to fill every casual, practical, and to fill every casual, practical, and romantic need Americans might have. And romantic need Americans might have. And romantic need Americans might have. And she hoped to create a few along the way. she hoped to create a few along the way. she hoped to create a few along the way. The Martha Stewart weddings division was The Martha Stewart weddings division was The Martha Stewart weddings division was only the beginning.

only the beginning. only the beginning. >> Once we get you married with weddings, >> Once we get you married with weddings, >> Once we get you married with weddings, then we, of course, have to then we, of course, have to then we, of course, have to you know, have have the babies, of you know, have have the babies, of you know, have have the babies, of course. course. course. >> And then at Kmart, came Martha Stewart's >> And then at Kmart, came Martha Stewart's >> And then at Kmart, came Martha Stewart's everyday baby baby. Get them in the everyday baby baby. Get them in the everyday baby baby. Get them in the cradle and you've got them to the grave. cradle and you've got them to the grave. cradle and you've got them to the grave. So perhaps one day the Martha Stewart So perhaps one day the Martha Stewart So perhaps one day the Martha Stewart everyday casket, which raised the everyday casket, which raised the everyday casket, which raised the question, can there be a Martha Stewart question, can there be a Martha Stewart question, can there be a Martha Stewart without Martha Stewart? without Martha Stewart? without Martha Stewart? Too soon to tell. But back in those Too soon to tell. But back in those Too soon to tell. But back in those pre-felony days, 5 years ago, she and we pre-felony days, 5 years ago, she and we pre-felony days, 5 years ago, she and we were full of optimism. were full of optimism. were full of optimism. >> Tell me something. When I come back 5 >> Tell me something. When I come back 5 >> Tell me something. When I come back 5 years from now to do the years from now to do the years from now to do the second update, second update, second update, >> I can't wait. >> I can't wait. >> I can't wait. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Um >> Um >> Um how big will you be? how big will you be? how big will you be? >> Well, I think >> Well, I think >> Well, I think um um um without making any financial without making any financial without making any financial projections, I think um it will be projections, I think um it will be projections, I think um it will be astonishing. astonishing. astonishing. >> Astonishing, but not the kind of >> Astonishing, but not the kind of >> Astonishing, but not the kind of astonishing she meant.

astonishing she meant. astonishing she meant. The federal accusations against her had The federal accusations against her had The federal accusations against her had already emerged when she was doing her already emerged when she was doing her already emerged when she was doing her stint on CBS's The Early [music] Show. stint on CBS's The Early [music] Show. stint on CBS's The Early [music] Show. She made it clear it was something she She made it clear it was something she She made it clear it was something she did not want to talk about. did not want to talk about. did not want to talk about. >> Well, we're going to make salad, but >> Well, we're going to make salad, but >> Well, we're going to make salad, but >> We are, but first let me ask you a few >> We are, but first let me ask you a few >> We are, but first let me ask you a few things. things. things. >> I have nothing to say on the matter. I'm >> I have nothing to say on the matter. I'm >> I have nothing to say on the matter. I'm I'm really not at liberty to say, and as I'm really not at liberty to say, and as I'm really not at liberty to say, and as I said, I think this will all be I said, I think this will all be I said, I think this will all be resolved in the very near future, and I resolved in the very near future, and I resolved in the very near future, and I will be exonerated. I know that will be exonerated. I know that will be exonerated. I know that ridiculousness. ridiculousness. ridiculousness. >> Alas, poor Martha, it was not to be. >> Alas, poor Martha, it was not to be. >> Alas, poor Martha, it was not to be. Clearly devastated by the likelihood of Clearly devastated by the likelihood of Clearly devastated by the likelihood of serving prison time, but still her serving prison time, but still her serving prison time, but still her steely nature would not allow her steely nature would not allow her steely nature would not allow her critics the satisfaction of tears. critics the satisfaction of tears. critics the satisfaction of tears. The Germans have a word for it, The Germans have a word for it, The Germans have a word for it, Schadenfreude, the pleasure we get from Schadenfreude, the pleasure we get from Schadenfreude, the pleasure we get from others' misfortune. others' misfortune. others' misfortune. Jay Leno did not hesitate. Jay Leno did not hesitate. Jay Leno did not hesitate. >> And if you're trying to reach Martha, >> And if you're trying to reach Martha, >> And if you're trying to reach Martha, she has a new cell number, CELL NUMBER she has a new cell number, CELL NUMBER she has a new cell number, CELL NUMBER 68. HEY, THERE'S A NEW REALITY.

68. HEY, THERE'S A NEW REALITY. 68. HEY, THERE'S A NEW REALITY. BUT GOD BLESS HER, she is a BUT GOD BLESS HER, she is a BUT GOD BLESS HER, she is a businesswoman through and through. Do businesswoman through and through. Do businesswoman through and through. Do you you you >> Look, this this just came out today. I >> Look, this this just came out today. I >> Look, this this just came out today. I couldn't believe this is their new couldn't believe this is their new couldn't believe this is their new magazine. This is a Big House and magazine. This is a Big House and magazine. This is a Big House and Garden. Garden. Garden. >> [screaming] >> [screaming] >> [screaming] >> Not so long ago, she was immune to even >> Not so long ago, she was immune to even >> Not so long ago, she was immune to even the cruelest parody. the cruelest parody. the cruelest parody. >> I have quietly been plotting along like >> I have quietly been plotting along like >> I have quietly been plotting along like that pearl tortoise all these years, that pearl tortoise all these years, that pearl tortoise all these years, building something that is of great building something that is of great building something that is of great worth and value. I think that that worth and value. I think that that worth and value. I think that that finally shook people to an awareness finally shook people to an awareness finally shook people to an awareness that, you know, that I'm not a parody. I that, you know, that I'm not a parody. I that, you know, that I'm not a parody. I shouldn't be parodied. I I be shouldn't be parodied. I I be shouldn't be parodied. I I be uh uh of fooled around with like that. uh uh of fooled around with like that. uh uh of fooled around with like that. That's serious business. That's serious business. That's serious business. >> In the end, it may have been sheer >> In the end, it may have been sheer >> In the end, it may have been sheer hubris, a belief in her own hubris, a belief in her own hubris, a belief in her own infallibility, infallibility, infallibility, that may have been her undoing. that may have been her undoing. that may have been her undoing. >> I always thought about >> I always thought about >> I always thought about uh the idea of taking the public company uh the idea of taking the public company uh the idea of taking the public company public. I always wanted to do an IPO. public. I always wanted to do an IPO. public. I always wanted to do an IPO. Uh for several reasons. Uh for several reasons. Uh for several reasons. Um I um Um I um Um I um after having been on Wall Street as a after having been on Wall Street as a after having been on Wall Street as a broker, remember when I broker, remember when I broker, remember when I >> Way back. >> Way back. >> Way back. >> Yeah, way, way back. Um I um like the >> Yeah, way, way back. Um I um like the >> Yeah, way, way back. Um I um like the public markets. I understand them. And I public markets. I understand them. And I public markets. I understand them. And I think that it's one way to get people to think that it's one way to get people to think that it's one way to get people to understand uh like you that this is a understand uh like you that this is a understand uh like you that this is a serious company, a contender for serious company, a contender for serious company, a contender for uh prominence in the world of business.

uh prominence in the world of business. uh prominence in the world of business. >> As the Bible tells us, pride goeth >> As the Bible tells us, pride goeth >> As the Bible tells us, pride goeth before a fall and haughty spirit before before a fall and haughty spirit before before a fall and haughty spirit before destruction. destruction. destruction. >> Tonight, four times guilty, and Martha >> Tonight, four times guilty, and Martha >> Tonight, four times guilty, and Martha Stewart faces living in prison. Stewart faces living in prison. Stewart faces living in prison. >> Martha's boast that she knew so much >> Martha's boast that she knew so much >> Martha's boast that she knew so much about business was not lost on the about business was not lost on the about business was not lost on the jurors when they found her guilty of jurors when they found her guilty of jurors when they found her guilty of deliberately lying to federal deliberately lying to federal deliberately lying to federal investigators. investigators. investigators. Back in 1995, Back in 1995, Back in 1995, Martha gave us her thoughts on the Martha gave us her thoughts on the Martha gave us her thoughts on the question of sin that seemed so question of sin that seemed so question of sin that seemed so pedestrian, we did not include them in pedestrian, we did not include them in pedestrian, we did not include them in our story. our story. our story. Just listen. Just listen. Just listen. >> What are the one or two sins that you >> What are the one or two sins that you >> What are the one or two sins that you just cannot abide in people? just cannot abide in people? just cannot abide in people? >> Uh one thing is dishonesty. >> Uh one thing is dishonesty. >> Uh one thing is dishonesty. Uh that bothers me a lot. And um Uh that bothers me a lot. And um Uh that bothers me a lot. And um and I'm always amazed at how many people and I'm always amazed at how many people and I'm always amazed at how many people are dishonest. Um and I think um another are dishonest. Um and I think um another are dishonest. Um and I think um another another um I I maybe amorality.

maybe amorality. maybe amorality. >> Amorality. >> Amorality. >> Amorality. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> As opposed to immorality. >> As opposed to immorality. >> As opposed to immorality. >> Well, immorality. Well, amorality is >> Well, immorality. Well, amorality is >> Well, immorality. Well, amorality is just a lack of morals. Um I think that just a lack of morals. Um I think that just a lack of morals. Um I think that that is another thing that bothers me a that is another thing that bothers me a that is another thing that bothers me a lot. I know it is. lot. I know it is. lot. I know it is. >> I mean, what >> I mean, what >> I mean, what >> So, they're serious. I mean, it's very >> So, they're serious. I mean, it's very >> So, they're serious. I mean, it's very serious. [clears throat] serious. [clears throat] serious. [clears throat] >> I'm thinking, what about sloth and >> I'm thinking, what about sloth and >> I'm thinking, what about sloth and laziness and idleness and laziness and idleness and laziness and idleness and >> All that can be corrected. That can be >> All that can be corrected. That can be >> All that can be corrected. That can be corrected. You know, um, corrected. You know, um, corrected. You know, um, dishonesty just seems to be something dishonesty just seems to be something dishonesty just seems to be something that once you get into it, people just that once you get into it, people just that once you get into it, people just seem to not be able to get out of it.