The man determining the monetary value of lives lost on 9/11 | 60 Minutes Archive

60 Minutes rewind. 60 Minutes rewind. >> No single person in history has been >> No single person in history has been >> No single person in history has been given the kind of authority by the given the kind of authority by the given the kind of authority by the United States government that this man United States government that this man United States government that this man has. His name is Kenneth Fineberg, a has. His name is Kenneth Fineberg, a has. His name is Kenneth Fineberg, a 58-year-old arbitration lawyer who's 58-year-old arbitration lawyer who's 58-year-old arbitration lawyer who's been asked by Attorney General John been asked by Attorney General John been asked by Attorney General John Ashcroft to become judge and jury over Ashcroft to become judge and jury over Ashcroft to become judge and jury over the federal government's September 11th the federal government's September 11th the federal government's September 11th victim's compensation fund. a man who in victim's compensation fund. a man who in victim's compensation fund. a man who in a certain way has been asked to play a certain way has been asked to play a certain way has been asked to play God. He's been given the archaic title God. He's been given the archaic title God. He's been given the archaic title of special master. And that he is the of special master. And that he is the of special master. And that he is the one man who must place a value on each one man who must place a value on each one man who must place a value on each of the almost 3,000 lives lost that day. of the almost 3,000 lives lost that day. of the almost 3,000 lives lost that day. Though a December 22nd deadline is fast Though a December 22nd deadline is fast Though a December 22nd deadline is fast approaching, there are still hundreds of approaching, there are still hundreds of approaching, there are still hundreds of families who've not yet applied for families who've not yet applied for families who've not yet applied for compensation. But like those who have, compensation. But like those who have, compensation. But like those who have, they have stories. And Fineberg has been they have stories. And Fineberg has been they have stories. And Fineberg has been listening. listening to a relentless listening. listening to a relentless listening. listening to a relentless catalog of heartbreak that can often be catalog of heartbreak that can often be catalog of heartbreak that can often be reduced to a single word, grief. reduced to a single word, grief. reduced to a single word, grief. There are many people who have been There are many people who have been There are many people who have been traumatized by September 11th, who when traumatized by September 11th, who when traumatized by September 11th, who when you sit with them and say, "I will help you sit with them and say, "I will help you sit with them and say, "I will help you fill out the forms, you may get $2 you fill out the forms, you may get $2 you fill out the forms, you may get $2 million tax-free. I will assist you.

million tax-free. I will assist you. million tax-free. I will assist you. I'll fill it out with you." And they I'll fill it out with you." And they I'll fill it out with you." And they say, "Mr. Fineberg, leave the say, "Mr. Fineberg, leave the say, "Mr. Fineberg, leave the application. application. application. Thank you for trying. I cannot put Thank you for trying. I cannot put Thank you for trying. I cannot put numbers to my daughter's life, to my numbers to my daughter's life, to my numbers to my daughter's life, to my son's life, to my husband's life. son's life, to my husband's life. son's life, to my husband's life. >> But that is exactly what Kenneth >> But that is exactly what Kenneth >> But that is exactly what Kenneth Fineberg must do. Attach a price tag to Fineberg must do. Attach a price tag to Fineberg must do. Attach a price tag to suffering, to injury, and a specific suffering, to injury, and a specific suffering, to injury, and a specific price tag to each of 2,976 price tag to each of 2,976 price tag to each of 2,976 lives. Did Congress make your job more lives. Did Congress make your job more lives. Did Congress make your job more difficult by asking you to evaluate each difficult by asking you to evaluate each difficult by asking you to evaluate each life? Absolutely. life? Absolutely. life? Absolutely. >> As opposed to saying, "Here's four, six, >> As opposed to saying, "Here's four, six, >> As opposed to saying, "Here's four, six, 10 billion dollars, whatever. Divide it 10 billion dollars, whatever. Divide it 10 billion dollars, whatever. Divide it by the number of claimants and each will by the number of claimants and each will by the number of claimants and each will get the same." get the same." get the same." >> Juries every day evaluate economic loss >> Juries every day evaluate economic loss >> Juries every day evaluate economic loss and non-C pain and suffering. Juries do and non-C pain and suffering. Juries do and non-C pain and suffering. Juries do that in every village and Hamlet in this that in every village and Hamlet in this that in every village and Hamlet in this country, but they do it quietly, out of country, but they do it quietly, out of country, but they do it quietly, out of the public eye, according to local the public eye, according to local the public eye, according to local community standards. Here, Congress community standards. Here, Congress community standards. Here, Congress said, "You do that. No appeals from your said, "You do that. No appeals from your said, "You do that. No appeals from your decisions.

decisions. decisions. You will decide. You will decide. You will decide. >> We anticipate three to four billion >> We anticipate three to four billion >> We anticipate three to four billion dollars being spent." Congress has given dollars being spent." Congress has given dollars being spent." Congress has given Fineberg enormous discretion to Fineberg enormous discretion to Fineberg enormous discretion to interpret the hastily written interpret the hastily written interpret the hastily written legislation that created the legislation that created the legislation that created the compensation fund. It was designed compensation fund. It was designed compensation fund. It was designed primarily to protect the airlines whose primarily to protect the airlines whose primarily to protect the airlines whose planes were used in the attacks from planes were used in the attacks from planes were used in the attacks from ruinous lawsuits. ruinous lawsuits. ruinous lawsuits. >> Congress was conflicted, frankly, when >> Congress was conflicted, frankly, when >> Congress was conflicted, frankly, when they created the fund. On the one hand, they created the fund. On the one hand, they created the fund. On the one hand, the purpose of the fund clearly is to the purpose of the fund clearly is to the purpose of the fund clearly is to provide an alternative to lawsuits provide an alternative to lawsuits provide an alternative to lawsuits against the airlines, the security. against the airlines, the security. against the airlines, the security. Okay, that's the practical. Okay, that's the practical. Okay, that's the practical. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> But there was compassion. >> But there was compassion. >> But there was compassion. >> Clearly, Congress decided that this >> Clearly, Congress decided that this >> Clearly, Congress decided that this unprecedented historical event in unprecedented historical event in unprecedented historical event in American history, we must come to the American history, we must come to the American history, we must come to the aid to the rescue aid to the rescue aid to the rescue of those in need. of those in need. of those in need. >> Fineberg almost immediately met with >> Fineberg almost immediately met with >> Fineberg almost immediately met with survivors. In explaining the fund, he survivors. In explaining the fund, he survivors. In explaining the fund, he was accused of being insensitive. was accused of being insensitive. was accused of being insensitive. >> He became the lightning rod for their >> He became the lightning rod for their >> He became the lightning rod for their anger at government. and at the terms of anger at government. and at the terms of anger at government. and at the terms of the deal they were being offered. In the deal they were being offered. In the deal they were being offered. In order to qualify for compensation, order to qualify for compensation, order to qualify for compensation, families had to give up all rights to families had to give up all rights to families had to give up all rights to sue the airlines. Fineberg maintained sue the airlines. Fineberg maintained sue the airlines. Fineberg maintained that suing would be pointless, but still that suing would be pointless, but still that suing would be pointless, but still people had their reasons.

people had their reasons. people had their reasons. >> My lost loved one would have wanted me >> My lost loved one would have wanted me >> My lost loved one would have wanted me to sue to make the airline safer. We to sue to make the airline safer. We to sue to make the airline safer. We have to discover what really happened on have to discover what really happened on have to discover what really happened on that day. we will get in a lawsuit all that day. we will get in a lawsuit all that day. we will get in a lawsuit all the information about what the CIA knew, the information about what the CIA knew, the information about what the CIA knew, what the FBI knew, what the what the FBI knew, what the what the FBI knew, what the administration knew. I say to them, administration knew. I say to them, administration knew. I say to them, you're not going to get any of that in a you're not going to get any of that in a you're not going to get any of that in a lawsuit. lawsuit. lawsuit. >> I'm in New York. I'm getting the >> I'm in New York. I'm getting the >> I'm in New York. I'm getting the shuttle. I'll come back to Washington shuttle. I'll come back to Washington shuttle. I'll come back to Washington and then tomorrow. and then tomorrow. and then tomorrow. >> Fineberg says he agreed to accept this >> Fineberg says he agreed to accept this >> Fineberg says he agreed to accept this job, cut back on a good part of his job, cut back on a good part of his job, cut back on a good part of his lucrative private practice for 2 years lucrative private practice for 2 years lucrative private practice for 2 years as an act of patriotism. as an act of patriotism. as an act of patriotism. He's settled huge class action lawsuits He's settled huge class action lawsuits He's settled huge class action lawsuits on Agent Orange and his bestas. That's on Agent Orange and his bestas. That's on Agent Orange and his bestas. That's why the attorney general appointed this why the attorney general appointed this why the attorney general appointed this liberal Democrat who thrives on the liberal Democrat who thrives on the liberal Democrat who thrives on the toughest cases. toughest cases. toughest cases. He begins each day before dawn. These He begins each day before dawn. These He begins each day before dawn. These moments of isolation surrounded by music moments of isolation surrounded by music moments of isolation surrounded by music may be the only respit from an 18-hour may be the only respit from an 18-hour may be the only respit from an 18-hour workday, often seven days a week. He workday, often seven days a week. He workday, often seven days a week. He receives very little thanks and at his receives very little thanks and at his receives very little thanks and at his own request no pay. He knows more about own request no pay. He knows more about own request no pay. He knows more about those who died on September 11th and the those who died on September 11th and the those who died on September 11th and the lives they left behind than anyone has lives they left behind than anyone has lives they left behind than anyone has any right to.

any right to. any right to. >> Banker dies on the 103rd floor of the >> Banker dies on the 103rd floor of the >> Banker dies on the 103rd floor of the World Trade Center. World Trade Center. World Trade Center. I have to try and compute, calculate, I have to try and compute, calculate, I have to try and compute, calculate, predict with a crystal ball what that predict with a crystal ball what that predict with a crystal ball what that 35year-old banker who died leaving three 35year-old banker who died leaving three 35year-old banker who died leaving three children and a wife. children and a wife. children and a wife. What would he have earned What would he have earned What would he have earned if he had worked, survived and worked if he had worked, survived and worked if he had worked, survived and worked till he was 62 or 65? There is no till he was 62 or 65? There is no till he was 62 or 65? There is no crystal ball, just pages of projections, crystal ball, just pages of projections, crystal ball, just pages of projections, victim's salaries, future earnings, victim's salaries, future earnings, victim's salaries, future earnings, educated guesswork on the value of an educated guesswork on the value of an educated guesswork on the value of an individual life. Fineberg admits he individual life. Fineberg admits he individual life. Fineberg admits he keeps the awards to the families of the keeps the awards to the families of the keeps the awards to the families of the highest earning victims down to narrow highest earning victims down to narrow highest earning victims down to narrow the gap between rich and poor. the gap between rich and poor. the gap between rich and poor. >> What should I do with the undocumented >> What should I do with the undocumented >> What should I do with the undocumented worker, the military, worker, the military, worker, the military, the banker, the stock broker, the the banker, the stock broker, the the banker, the stock broker, the fireman, the policeman? I mean that's fireman, the policeman? I mean that's fireman, the policeman? I mean that's that's the that's the challenge. What's that's the that's the challenge. What's that's the that's the challenge. What's really unusual here is that Fineberg had really unusual here is that Fineberg had really unusual here is that Fineberg had the guts to publish a chart which was the guts to publish a chart which was the guts to publish a chart which was the expectation of how much money you the expectation of how much money you the expectation of how much money you would get and for the first time ever would get and for the first time ever would get and for the first time ever the government was in the position of the government was in the position of the government was in the position of doing comparative values of human lives.

doing comparative values of human lives. doing comparative values of human lives. Steven Bril, an attorney and author of a Steven Bril, an attorney and author of a Steven Bril, an attorney and author of a book on the aftermath of September 11th, book on the aftermath of September 11th, book on the aftermath of September 11th, says Fineberg's chart was certain to says Fineberg's chart was certain to says Fineberg's chart was certain to offend all families regardless of offend all families regardless of offend all families regardless of income. income. income. >> At the same time that some of the >> At the same time that some of the >> At the same time that some of the wealthy families are angry at him, the wealthy families are angry at him, the wealthy families are angry at him, the poor families are angry at him. How dare poor families are angry at him. How dare poor families are angry at him. How dare Ken Fineberg do that? How dare someone Ken Fineberg do that? How dare someone Ken Fineberg do that? How dare someone put a value on human life that says that put a value on human life that says that put a value on human life that says that my husband and the father of my children my husband and the father of my children my husband and the father of my children is worth onetenth of what this what this is worth onetenth of what this what this is worth onetenth of what this what this other person is worth. One uh claimant other person is worth. One uh claimant other person is worth. One uh claimant got up and criticized me. Why are they got up and criticized me. Why are they got up and criticized me. Why are they getting less than the stock broker or getting less than the stock broker or getting less than the stock broker or the bond trader? And she sat down and the bond trader? And she sat down and the bond trader? And she sat down and then the stock broker's widow got up. then the stock broker's widow got up. then the stock broker's widow got up. How dare you? My husband worked long and How dare you? My husband worked long and How dare you? My husband worked long and hard to make that money and I have every hard to make that money and I have every hard to make that money and I have every right to get what's due me. Uhuh. Even right to get what's due me. Uhuh. Even right to get what's due me. Uhuh. Even if you think that you're being shortch if you think that you're being shortch if you think that you're being shortch changed, changed, changed, >> any precedent in giving a single man, >> any precedent in giving a single man, >> any precedent in giving a single man, Ken Fineberg, the kind of power that Ken Fineberg, the kind of power that Ken Fineberg, the kind of power that Congress, Congress, Congress, >> this is this is almost unbelievable.

>> this is this is almost unbelievable. >> this is this is almost unbelievable. This is the only time in the history of This is the only time in the history of This is the only time in the history of this country that we've ever passed a this country that we've ever passed a this country that we've ever passed a law that says one person literally has law that says one person literally has law that says one person literally has the ability to go to uh the Treasury the ability to go to uh the Treasury the ability to go to uh the Treasury checkbook and write a check on his say checkbook and write a check on his say checkbook and write a check on his say so to an American citizen with no so to an American citizen with no so to an American citizen with no appeal, with no way to stop him. appeal, with no way to stop him. appeal, with no way to stop him. >> It was a law met with a certain >> It was a law met with a certain >> It was a law met with a certain bitterness. For example, no compensation bitterness. For example, no compensation bitterness. For example, no compensation for families or victims of Oklahoma City for families or victims of Oklahoma City for families or victims of Oklahoma City and other terrorist attacks. Fineberg in and other terrorist attacks. Fineberg in and other terrorist attacks. Fineberg in explaining his mission talks of their explaining his mission talks of their explaining his mission talks of their anguish and the letters they send him. anguish and the letters they send him. anguish and the letters they send him. >> Dear Mr. Fineberg, my son died in >> Dear Mr. Fineberg, my son died in >> Dear Mr. Fineberg, my son died in Oklahoma City. Where's my check? Oklahoma City. Where's my check? Oklahoma City. Where's my check? Dear Mr. Fineberg, my daughter died in Dear Mr. Fineberg, my daughter died in Dear Mr. Fineberg, my daughter died in the African embassy bombings of the the African embassy bombings of the the African embassy bombings of the terrorists in 96. Where's my check? Dear terrorists in 96. Where's my check? Dear terrorists in 96. Where's my check? Dear Mr. Fineberg, my son died in the first Mr. Fineberg, my son died in the first Mr. Fineberg, my son died in the first World Trade Center bombing in 93 World Trade Center bombing in 93 World Trade Center bombing in 93 committed by the very same people. Why committed by the very same people. Why committed by the very same people. Why aren't I eligible?

aren't I eligible? aren't I eligible? >> Did Congress act too hastily, too >> Did Congress act too hastily, too >> Did Congress act too hastily, too emotionally when they set up this very emotionally when they set up this very emotionally when they set up this very particular fund? particular fund? particular fund? >> You have to ask Congress that. I must >> You have to ask Congress that. I must >> You have to ask Congress that. I must say I think that they acted say I think that they acted say I think that they acted appropriately. I think the program is a appropriately. I think the program is a appropriately. I think the program is a is a is a is a an excellent one. an excellent one. an excellent one. >> No program would satisfy everyone. Of >> No program would satisfy everyone. Of >> No program would satisfy everyone. Of course, early on, Fineberg decided that course, early on, Fineberg decided that course, early on, Fineberg decided that in addition to his calculation of in addition to his calculation of in addition to his calculation of economic loss, he would give each economic loss, he would give each economic loss, he would give each family, regardless of income, a flat family, regardless of income, a flat family, regardless of income, a flat payment of $250,000 payment of $250,000 payment of $250,000 for pain and suffering. Grieving for pain and suffering. Grieving for pain and suffering. Grieving families complained it was not enough. families complained it was not enough. families complained it was not enough. >> And he takes a lot of heat over things >> And he takes a lot of heat over things >> And he takes a lot of heat over things he has no control over, like Congress's he has no control over, like Congress's he has no control over, like Congress's decision to deduct life insurance from decision to deduct life insurance from decision to deduct life insurance from the awards. A lot of people will not the awards. A lot of people will not the awards. A lot of people will not accept this program because you're accept this program because you're accept this program because you're taking away life insurance and that has taking away life insurance and that has taking away life insurance and that has nothing to do with it. You're taking nothing to do with it. You're taking nothing to do with it. You're taking away something they work for, something away something they work for, something away something they work for, something they live for every day. they live for every day. they live for every day. >> This is Mr. Fineberg. >> This is Mr. Fineberg. >> This is Mr. Fineberg. >> Mr.

>> Mr. >> Mr. >> By law, families who challenge >> By law, families who challenge >> By law, families who challenge Fineberg's awards are entitled to a Fineberg's awards are entitled to a Fineberg's awards are entitled to a hearing where they must prove to him hearing where they must prove to him hearing where they must prove to him that their financial circumstances are that their financial circumstances are that their financial circumstances are extraordinary and merit higher payments. extraordinary and merit higher payments. extraordinary and merit higher payments. But still, people plead on grounds of But still, people plead on grounds of But still, people plead on grounds of emotional circumstances. emotional circumstances. emotional circumstances. >> I've had many claims where a survivor, a >> I've had many claims where a survivor, a >> I've had many claims where a survivor, a surviving spouse will come to me and surviving spouse will come to me and surviving spouse will come to me and say, "I'm really entitled to more say, "I'm really entitled to more say, "I'm really entitled to more because my wife was trapped and called because my wife was trapped and called because my wife was trapped and called me on her cell phone to say goodbye." me on her cell phone to say goodbye." me on her cell phone to say goodbye." And I received calls from my wife for 10 And I received calls from my wife for 10 And I received calls from my wife for 10 minutes on a cell phone until the minutes on a cell phone until the minutes on a cell phone until the building collapsed. So, I went through building collapsed. So, I went through building collapsed. So, I went through much more suffering than much more suffering than much more suffering than somebody killed instantly. I will not somebody killed instantly. I will not somebody killed instantly. I will not recognize those distinctions though in recognize those distinctions though in recognize those distinctions though in my awards, my awards, my awards, >> even though they're they're powerful. >> even though they're they're powerful. >> even though they're they're powerful. >> They're powerful and they're very >> They're powerful and they're very >> They're powerful and they're very emotional. But I've explained to all of emotional. But I've explained to all of emotional. But I've explained to all of the families that when it comes to pain the families that when it comes to pain the families that when it comes to pain and suffering and emotional distress, I and suffering and emotional distress, I and suffering and emotional distress, I cannot be Solomon. I cannot make fine cannot be Solomon. I cannot make fine cannot be Solomon. I cannot make fine distinctions between the pain of one distinctions between the pain of one distinctions between the pain of one claimant and the suffering of another.

claimant and the suffering of another. claimant and the suffering of another. As for his own emotions, it took almost As for his own emotions, it took almost As for his own emotions, it took almost two years before he was able to face two years before he was able to face two years before he was able to face ground zero. ground zero. ground zero. >> This is the first time I've been here. >> This is the first time I've been here. >> This is the first time I've been here. The first time I didn't want to come. The first time I didn't want to come. The first time I didn't want to come. >> Why did you not want to go down? >> Why did you not want to go down? >> Why did you not want to go down? >> I just um I just didn't think I could >> I just um I just didn't think I could >> I just um I just didn't think I could take it. and and and frankly the take it. and and and frankly the take it. and and and frankly the objectivity of my task is such that you objectivity of my task is such that you objectivity of my task is such that you try as best you can to uh try and try as best you can to uh try and try as best you can to uh try and isolate yourself from that but it's very isolate yourself from that but it's very isolate yourself from that but it's very very difficult to do. very difficult to do. very difficult to do. >> Other questions. >> Other questions. >> Other questions. >> Fineberg is making a last big push >> Fineberg is making a last big push >> Fineberg is making a last big push meeting with families urging them to meeting with families urging them to meeting with families urging them to sign up for the fund. There's little sign up for the fund. There's little sign up for the fund. There's little reprieve for him from the continuous reprieve for him from the continuous reprieve for him from the continuous flow of other people's agony. And it can flow of other people's agony. And it can flow of other people's agony. And it can come in many forms. come in many forms. come in many forms. >> Some people play CDs with songs that >> Some people play CDs with songs that >> Some people play CDs with songs that have been written about the deceased. have been written about the deceased. have been written about the deceased. Some people offer photographs and most Some people offer photographs and most Some people offer photographs and most people just want to talk about what that people just want to talk about what that people just want to talk about what that person meant to the family.

person meant to the family. person meant to the family. >> What have you learned about human nature >> What have you learned about human nature >> What have you learned about human nature in these two years in this job? I've in these two years in this job? I've in these two years in this job? I've learned how how uh dogged people will be learned how how uh dogged people will be learned how how uh dogged people will be to preserve a memory of a loved one. And to preserve a memory of a loved one. And to preserve a memory of a loved one. And when one way to preserve that memory is when one way to preserve that memory is when one way to preserve that memory is through a calculation of money of through a calculation of money of through a calculation of money of dollars, one way dollars, one way dollars, one way they will be dogged and committed to they will be dogged and committed to they will be dogged and committed to getting every last dollar. I don't think getting every last dollar. I don't think getting every last dollar. I don't think it's greed. I think it's an attempt to it's greed. I think it's an attempt to it's greed. I think it's an attempt to valuate valuate valuate a lost loved one. His tone has softened a lost loved one. His tone has softened a lost loved one. His tone has softened over the two years he's been at it. And over the two years he's been at it. And over the two years he's been at it. And he's learned something about that arc he's learned something about that arc he's learned something about that arc that begins with anger, then grief, that begins with anger, then grief, that begins with anger, then grief, and finally acceptance. and finally acceptance. and finally acceptance. >> When I became a widow after 9/11, I have >> When I became a widow after 9/11, I have >> When I became a widow after 9/11, I have three children. three children. three children. >> He heard it in the words of a wife who'd >> He heard it in the words of a wife who'd >> He heard it in the words of a wife who'd struggled with the decision to join the struggled with the decision to join the struggled with the decision to join the fund. fund. fund. >> You put your kids to bed, you stay up at >> You put your kids to bed, you stay up at >> You put your kids to bed, you stay up at midnight. When you fill out the papers, midnight. When you fill out the papers, midnight. When you fill out the papers, it hurts when you look up personal it hurts when you look up personal it hurts when you look up personal records, but when it's done, you have records, but when it's done, you have records, but when it's done, you have made made made a finality to your family where you can a finality to your family where you can a finality to your family where you can move on and you can help them. And move on and you can help them. And move on and you can help them. And although it is difficult, Mr. Fineberg, although it is difficult, Mr. Fineberg, although it is difficult, Mr. Fineberg, the fund has treated my family very the fund has treated my family very the fund has treated my family very reasonably and very fairly. And I just reasonably and very fairly. And I just reasonably and very fairly. And I just want the families with children to know want the families with children to know want the families with children to know that. Thanks.

that. Thanks. that. Thanks. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> This job surely will stay with you for >> This job surely will stay with you for >> This job surely will stay with you for the rest of your life. the rest of your life. the rest of your life. Yes, it will. Yes, it will. Yes, it will. It absolutely will.