Funded Founder Fridays: E9 From Vision to Execution

and welcome to another funded founder and welcome to another funded founder Fridays. This is our ninth episode Fridays. This is our ninth episode Fridays. This is our ninth episode today. today. today. >> Congratulations. >> Congratulations. >> Congratulations. >> Congrats. >> Congrats. >> Congrats. >> Thank you. Um and today we are talking >> Thank you. Um and today we are talking >> Thank you. Um and today we are talking about from vision to execution. uh what about from vision to execution. uh what about from vision to execution. uh what it takes to build the leadership and it takes to build the leadership and it takes to build the leadership and infrastructure that your startup needs infrastructure that your startup needs infrastructure that your startup needs to scale. Um I'm Rosel, CEO and to scale. Um I'm Rosel, CEO and to scale. Um I'm Rosel, CEO and co-founder of Creattopia, Inc. uh where co-founder of Creattopia, Inc. uh where co-founder of Creattopia, Inc. uh where we are centered on exploring the we are centered on exploring the we are centered on exploring the relationship between safety and relationship between safety and relationship between safety and creativity. We know that without safety, creativity. We know that without safety, creativity. We know that without safety, our brain is not capable of original our brain is not capable of original our brain is not capable of original thought. Um and my co-host is actually thought. Um and my co-host is actually thought. Um and my co-host is actually not here today. He got sick. So, hi Ben. not here today. He got sick. So, hi Ben. not here today. He got sick. So, hi Ben. >> Get better [laughter] soon. >> Get better [laughter] soon. >> Get better [laughter] soon. Um, but today I have two guests with us Um, but today I have two guests with us Um, but today I have two guests with us that will help us just deep dive into that will help us just deep dive into that will help us just deep dive into what it takes to scale and to build the what it takes to scale and to build the what it takes to scale and to build the infrastructure and the leadership. Um, infrastructure and the leadership. Um, infrastructure and the leadership. Um, when when the founder is realizing that when when the founder is realizing that when when the founder is realizing that they're wearing too many hats, right? they're wearing too many hats, right? they're wearing too many hats, right? When they're like, I need somebody to When they're like, I need somebody to When they're like, I need somebody to fractionally wear this hat for me. Uh, fractionally wear this hat for me. Uh, fractionally wear this hat for me. Uh, maybe they're not ready to hire. Um, and maybe they're not ready to hire. Um, and maybe they're not ready to hire. Um, and just what it takes. [laughter] just what it takes. [laughter] just what it takes. [laughter] Uh and so first of all we have Kenneth Uh and so first of all we have Kenneth Uh and so first of all we have Kenneth Benavidas. Uh [snorts] Kenneth is a Benavidas. Uh [snorts] Kenneth is a Benavidas. Uh [snorts] Kenneth is a founder of Alto Lumo, a fractional founder of Alto Lumo, a fractional founder of Alto Lumo, a fractional executive leadership firm serving executive leadership firm serving executive leadership firm serving startups and growing companies across startups and growing companies across startups and growing companies across Houston's innovation community. [snorts] Houston's innovation community. [snorts] Houston's innovation community. [snorts] He brings more than 30 years of He brings more than 30 years of He brings more than 30 years of experience in technology operations, experience in technology operations, experience in technology operations, enterprise software, digital enterprise software, digital enterprise software, digital transformation, and complex delivery.

transformation, and complex delivery. transformation, and complex delivery. Through Alto Lumo, he steps into Through Alto Lumo, he steps into Through Alto Lumo, he steps into fractional CTO and COO level roles, fractional CTO and COO level roles, fractional CTO and COO level roles, including serving as fractional COO at including serving as fractional COO at including serving as fractional COO at Iron Grove. He works [snorts] alongside Iron Grove. He works [snorts] alongside Iron Grove. He works [snorts] alongside funders and ecosystem partners to funders and ecosystem partners to funders and ecosystem partners to connect strategy, teams, technology, and connect strategy, teams, technology, and connect strategy, teams, technology, and execution, helping ambitious ideas, move execution, helping ambitious ideas, move execution, helping ambitious ideas, move from vision to launch with greater from vision to launch with greater from vision to launch with greater clarity and accountability. So, welcome, clarity and accountability. So, welcome, clarity and accountability. So, welcome, Ken. Ken. Ken. >> Thank you. Uh, pleasure to be here, >> Thank you. Uh, pleasure to be here, >> Thank you. Uh, pleasure to be here, Roselia, and I appreciate you and, uh, Roselia, and I appreciate you and, uh, Roselia, and I appreciate you and, uh, Ben and the organization that you're Ben and the organization that you're Ben and the organization that you're doing. Um, I think it's really well doing. Um, I think it's really well doing. Um, I think it's really well needed here in Houston. So, uh, needed here in Houston. So, uh, needed here in Houston. So, uh, appreciate it. appreciate it. appreciate it. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> thank you very much. >> thank you very much. >> thank you very much. >> Glad to have you. And we also have Wen >> Glad to have you. And we also have Wen >> Glad to have you. And we also have Wen Gutierrez, uh, who is the president and Gutierrez, uh, who is the president and Gutierrez, uh, who is the president and founder of Iron Grove, a Houston founder of Iron Grove, a Houston founder of Iron Grove, a Houston engineering firm that builds custom engineering firm that builds custom engineering firm that builds custom software, websites, and the software, websites, and the software, websites, and the infrastructure that keeps them running. infrastructure that keeps them running. infrastructure that keeps them running. once has built Iron Grove around a once has built Iron Grove around a once has built Iron Grove around a simple principle. The team that creates simple principle. The team that creates simple principle. The team that creates the technology should remain accountable the technology should remain accountable the technology should remain accountable for it after launch. Under his for it after launch. Under his for it after launch. Under his leadership, Iron Grove developed leadership, Iron Grove developed leadership, Iron Grove developed Javalina, its own aniccast DNA, DNS and Javalina, its own aniccast DNA, DNS and Javalina, its own aniccast DNA, DNS and traffic control platform. You're going traffic control platform. You're going traffic control platform. You're going to have to break that down for us.

to have to break that down for us. to have to break that down for us. >> All right. >> All right. >> All right. >> Uh giving clients one team responsible. >> Uh giving clients one team responsible. >> Uh giving clients one team responsible. Giving clients one team responsible for Giving clients one team responsible for Giving clients one team responsible for architecture, software delivery, and architecture, software delivery, and architecture, software delivery, and reliability. WS is an active Houston reliability. WS is an active Houston reliability. WS is an active Houston ecosystem builder who helps founders ecosystem builder who helps founders ecosystem builder who helps founders turn complex ideas into durable turn complex ideas into durable turn complex ideas into durable production ready products and I can say production ready products and I can say production ready products and I can say personally uh Creattopia has been personally uh Creattopia has been personally uh Creattopia has been working with both of you to develop our working with both of you to develop our working with both of you to develop our website and our infrastructure and I'm website and our infrastructure and I'm website and our infrastructure and I'm enjoying it and I really appreciate enjoying it and I really appreciate enjoying it and I really appreciate y'all's support. y'all's support. y'all's support. >> Us too. >> Us too. >> Us too. >> So, thanks for being here and let's >> So, thanks for being here and let's >> So, thanks for being here and let's let's get into it. Do you all want to let's get into it. Do you all want to let's get into it. Do you all want to just say hi? Do you want to say hi real just say hi? Do you want to say hi real just say hi? Do you want to say hi real quick? quick? quick? >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Your mom? Anybody? Hi, mom. You >> Your mom? Anybody? Hi, mom. You >> Your mom? Anybody? Hi, mom. You [laughter] know that. Thanks. I'm sure [laughter] know that. Thanks. I'm sure [laughter] know that. Thanks. I'm sure she will really appreciate that. Um, she will really appreciate that. Um, she will really appreciate that. Um, it's my sister's birthday today. Oh, it's my sister's birthday today. Oh, it's my sister's birthday today. Oh, >> I should say happy birthday, Esther. >> I should say happy birthday, Esther. >> I should say happy birthday, Esther. Yay. you know. Um so yeah uh you know Yay. you know. Um so yeah uh you know Yay. you know. Um so yeah uh you know Iron Grove was founded uh back in 2004 Iron Grove was founded uh back in 2004 Iron Grove was founded uh back in 2004 and and what it what it really for us and and what it what it really for us and and what it what it really for us was about um you know we've been in it a was about um you know we've been in it a was about um you know we've been in it a long time and uh a lot of the companies long time and uh a lot of the companies long time and uh a lot of the companies that we had worked for and and friends that we had worked for and and friends that we had worked for and and friends of mine had worked for um of mine had worked for um of mine had worked for um would always reach out to us and need would always reach out to us and need would always reach out to us and need additional help and things and and it additional help and things and and it additional help and things and and it really started a way just to like how do really started a way just to like how do really started a way just to like how do we build build customers ers who are we build build customers ers who are we build build customers ers who are asking for our help even though that's asking for our help even though that's asking for our help even though that's not our full-time job. And it kind of not our full-time job. And it kind of not our full-time job. And it kind of >> leads into exactly what Ken does, you >> leads into exactly what Ken does, you >> leads into exactly what Ken does, you know, fractional help, you know, on the know, fractional help, you know, on the know, fractional help, you know, on the infrastructure side.

infrastructure side. infrastructure side. >> What we've done is we've built a >> What we've done is we've built a >> What we've done is we've built a platform to host anything and everything platform to host anything and everything platform to host anything and everything and and we own this platform. Uh it's and and we own this platform. Uh it's and and we own this platform. Uh it's it's locally managed. Uh it it is uh it's locally managed. Uh it it is uh it's locally managed. Uh it it is uh worldwide. We we're in 32 places around worldwide. We we're in 32 places around worldwide. We we're in 32 places around the globe. uh we can route traffic to the globe. uh we can route traffic to the globe. uh we can route traffic to the closest hop etc. you know. Um, the closest hop etc. you know. Um, the closest hop etc. you know. Um, so in 2004 when we founded this company, so in 2004 when we founded this company, so in 2004 when we founded this company, uh, we were getting random reachouts to uh, we were getting random reachouts to uh, we were getting random reachouts to the community saying, "Hey, we're trying the community saying, "Hey, we're trying the community saying, "Hey, we're trying to build this. Can you help us do this?" to build this. Can you help us do this?" to build this. Can you help us do this?" Or a lot of times small businesses would Or a lot of times small businesses would Or a lot of times small businesses would have a product that someone built and have a product that someone built and have a product that someone built and then that person has moved on and no then that person has moved on and no then that person has moved on and no one's maintaining this product anymore. one's maintaining this product anymore. one's maintaining this product anymore. And And And >> as security or or as time marches on, >> as security or or as time marches on, >> as security or or as time marches on, security needs security needs security needs >> Exactly. force older software to be >> Exactly. force older software to be >> Exactly. force older software to be rewritten or or modernized, rewritten or or modernized, rewritten or or modernized, >> right? And that's kind of where we've >> right? And that's kind of where we've >> right? And that's kind of where we've come in to help other companies in in a come in to help other companies in in a come in to help other companies in in a in a fractional way also, you know, in a fractional way also, you know, in a fractional way also, you know, because a lot of times we we don't want because a lot of times we we don't want because a lot of times we we don't want to necessarily to necessarily to necessarily displace any of their current setup, but displace any of their current setup, but displace any of their current setup, but a lot of times companies have a short a lot of times companies have a short a lot of times companies have a short high demand need to either get something high demand need to either get something high demand need to either get something caught up or they need some additional caught up or they need some additional caught up or they need some additional functionality and it's a it's it's a functionality and it's a it's it's a functionality and it's a it's it's a single project versus hiring someone and single project versus hiring someone and single project versus hiring someone and keeping them for years or whatever. So, keeping them for years or whatever. So, keeping them for years or whatever. So, that's kind of how we got started.

that's kind of how we got started. that's kind of how we got started. >> Um, >> Um, >> Um, Iron Grow is made up of a lot of people Iron Grow is made up of a lot of people Iron Grow is made up of a lot of people that I've worked with in the past from, that I've worked with in the past from, that I've worked with in the past from, you know, everywhere I've worked and uh you know, everywhere I've worked and uh you know, everywhere I've worked and uh I guess fortunately uh I get along with I guess fortunately uh I get along with I guess fortunately uh I get along with all my ex- bosses and uh all my ex- bosses and uh all my ex- bosses and uh >> some of them never got the memo that I >> some of them never got the memo that I >> some of them never got the memo that I don't still work for them and they don't still work for them and they don't still work for them and they [laughter] still send me emails asking [laughter] still send me emails asking [laughter] still send me emails asking me to do stuff and you know, we just me to do stuff and you know, we just me to do stuff and you know, we just keep doing it. You know, keep doing it. You know, keep doing it. You know, >> hey, [laughter] that works. >> hey, [laughter] that works. >> hey, [laughter] that works. >> Yeah. just forever employ. >> Yeah. just forever employ. >> Yeah. just forever employ. >> So that's how I got into it. >> So that's how I got into it. >> So that's how I got into it. >> Works for consulting, works for, you >> Works for consulting, works for, you >> Works for consulting, works for, you know, keeping those relationships and know, keeping those relationships and know, keeping those relationships and that's really key, WZ. Um, a lot of this that's really key, WZ. Um, a lot of this that's really key, WZ. Um, a lot of this work that we do, whether it's with work that we do, whether it's with work that we do, whether it's with founders, it's with our projects, it's founders, it's with our projects, it's founders, it's with our projects, it's about those key relationships and it's about those key relationships and it's about those key relationships and it's ensuring that, you know, early on uh you ensuring that, you know, early on uh you ensuring that, you know, early on uh you may be doing this alone, but if you run may be doing this alone, but if you run may be doing this alone, but if you run across us, we try to build that across us, we try to build that across us, we try to build that relationship and that partnership, you relationship and that partnership, you relationship and that partnership, you know, at all levels. Wherever you're at know, at all levels. Wherever you're at know, at all levels. Wherever you're at in your journey, we try to kind of come in your journey, we try to kind of come in your journey, we try to kind of come in, execute. It's your product, it's in, execute. It's your product, it's in, execute. It's your product, it's your project. We just come in and try to your project. We just come in and try to your project. We just come in and try to help you as much as we can uh with our help you as much as we can uh with our help you as much as we can uh with our expertise and the people that we know. expertise and the people that we know. expertise and the people that we know. Uh we build our own network, you know, Uh we build our own network, you know, Uh we build our own network, you know, not only infrastructure but also people not only infrastructure but also people not only infrastructure but also people wise as well. And so we've been in this wise as well. And so we've been in this wise as well. And so we've been in this industry for quite some time and really industry for quite some time and really industry for quite some time and really understand kind of you can't do it understand kind of you can't do it understand kind of you can't do it alone. So that's kind of alone. So that's kind of alone. So that's kind of >> it goes back to people, right? Like I >> it goes back to people, right? Like I >> it goes back to people, right? Like I love I love how we keep coming back to love I love how we keep coming back to love I love how we keep coming back to people like no matter how much people like no matter how much people like no matter how much technology there is and how much AI technology there is and how much AI technology there is and how much AI there is like you still have to be able there is like you still have to be able there is like you still have to be able to have a relationship with other humans to have a relationship with other humans to have a relationship with other humans >> to get things going.

>> to get things going. >> to get things going. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Exactly. You know, I I read a I read a >> Exactly. You know, I I read a I read a >> Exactly. You know, I I read a I read a book about uh being an entrepreneur way book about uh being an entrepreneur way book about uh being an entrepreneur way back and uh you know, first first back and uh you know, first first back and uh you know, first first chapter it talks about how chapter it talks about how chapter it talks about how you have to stop doing the work yourself you have to stop doing the work yourself you have to stop doing the work yourself and and you know that's that's such a and and you know that's that's such a and and you know that's that's such a simple statement. It sounds great like simple statement. It sounds great like simple statement. It sounds great like you know you know you know >> everyone's like but but wait I'm >> everyone's like but but wait I'm >> everyone's like but but wait I'm building this I'm like building but we building this I'm like building but we building this I'm like building but we need to be involved. [laughter] I would need to be involved. [laughter] I would need to be involved. [laughter] I would never you give up though, you know, and never you give up though, you know, and never you give up though, you know, and there's things you gain, you know? So, there's things you gain, you know? So, there's things you gain, you know? So, so when you quit doing the work so when you quit doing the work so when you quit doing the work yourself, yourself, yourself, the bad gain is is there's usually the bad gain is is there's usually the bad gain is is there's usually expenses that come along with it, you expenses that come along with it, you expenses that come along with it, you know? know? know? >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> The upside is when you're starting a >> The upside is when you're starting a >> The upside is when you're starting a company, there's so much work to do. company, there's so much work to do. company, there's so much work to do. There's no possible way that you can be There's no possible way that you can be There's no possible way that you can be everywhere everywhere everywhere and and and really give everything the and and and really give everything the and and and really give everything the attention it needs, attention it needs, attention it needs, >> right, >> right, >> right, >> to grow. So, at some point, you have to >> to grow. So, at some point, you have to >> to grow. So, at some point, you have to figure out who you can partner with or figure out who you can partner with or figure out who you can partner with or who who you can trust to bring your who who you can trust to bring your who who you can trust to bring your vision in vision in vision in >> to fruition, you know, but >> to fruition, you know, but >> to fruition, you know, but >> it it's it's difficult because you have >> it it's it's difficult because you have >> it it's it's difficult because you have the challenges of capital a lot of the challenges of capital a lot of the challenges of capital a lot of times, you know, you're just starting times, you know, you're just starting times, you know, you're just starting off, right?

off, right? off, right? >> You know, and >> You know, and >> You know, and Yep. It's a balancing act, Yep. It's a balancing act, Yep. It's a balancing act, >> right? I mean, and it's I mean, >> right? I mean, and it's I mean, >> right? I mean, and it's I mean, personally, that's with Creattopia, personally, that's with Creattopia, personally, that's with Creattopia, that's where we're coming out of, right? that's where we're coming out of, right? that's where we're coming out of, right? That valley of death. And That valley of death. And That valley of death. And >> as you're scaling, when you're really >> as you're scaling, when you're really >> as you're scaling, when you're really starting to scale and everything's like starting to scale and everything's like starting to scale and everything's like going, going, going, >> all of the different hats that you as a >> all of the different hats that you as a >> all of the different hats that you as a if you're a soloreneur, if you're a soloreneur, if you're a soloreneur, >> God bless you, >> God bless you, >> God bless you, >> right? >> right? >> right? If you're and if you're co-founders, u If you're and if you're co-founders, u If you're and if you're co-founders, u still there's a lot of hats, right, that still there's a lot of hats, right, that still there's a lot of hats, right, that you have to that you have to wear and you have to that you have to wear and you have to that you have to wear and >> like how do you how do you start piecing >> like how do you how do you start piecing >> like how do you how do you start piecing that out so that you can hand it over that out so that you can hand it over that out so that you can hand it over because you do need if you're scaling, because you do need if you're scaling, because you do need if you're scaling, right? You need to work on the business, right? You need to work on the business, right? You need to work on the business, not in the business is what we we've not in the business is what we we've not in the business is what we we've been hearing. So, what have y'all well been hearing. So, what have y'all well been hearing. So, what have y'all well first of all, how did y'all get first of all, how did y'all get first of all, how did y'all get connected? When did y'all meet? And then connected? When did y'all meet? And then connected? When did y'all meet? And then what have you found with founders or the what have you found with founders or the what have you found with founders or the startups that come to you just startups that come to you just startups that come to you just >> that that process right of like they >> that that process right of like they >> that that process right of like they know that they're wearing a lot of hats know that they're wearing a lot of hats know that they're wearing a lot of hats and how can you help them like slowly and how can you help them like slowly and how can you help them like slowly start removing the hats? you know, start removing the hats? you know, start removing the hats? you know, >> let me go first because [laughter] >> let me go first because [laughter] >> let me go first because [laughter] >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> because for me it's easy, you know, like >> because for me it's easy, you know, like >> because for me it's easy, you know, like on my side, on my side, on my side, what we do is is because we've been in what we do is is because we've been in what we do is is because we've been in tech so long, you know, when when when tech so long, you know, when when when tech so long, you know, when when when someone comes to us with with their someone comes to us with with their someone comes to us with with their idea, idea, idea, um, for for me, um, for for me, um, for for me, this is this is kind of what we've been this is this is kind of what we've been this is this is kind of what we've been doing all along is is taking doing all along is is taking doing all along is is taking requirements from a business, take requirements from a business, take requirements from a business, take taking that that idea of what they want

taking that that idea of what they want taking that that idea of what they want to build and and what they want to to build and and what they want to to build and and what they want to accomplish and then turn it into some accomplish and then turn it into some accomplish and then turn it into some requirements that we can actually build requirements that we can actually build requirements that we can actually build and deliver. and deliver. and deliver. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> You know, so so for me, part of part of >> You know, so so for me, part of part of >> You know, so so for me, part of part of that main conversation is really that main conversation is really that main conversation is really understanding the dream or or the vision understanding the dream or or the vision understanding the dream or or the vision of what they're trying to do and then of what they're trying to do and then of what they're trying to do and then what's actually possible today. you what's actually possible today. you what's actually possible today. you know, cuz you know, for instance, about know, cuz you know, for instance, about know, cuz you know, for instance, about 10 years ago, someone came to me with a 10 years ago, someone came to me with a 10 years ago, someone came to me with a great idea, you know, but tech wasn't great idea, you know, but tech wasn't great idea, you know, but tech wasn't there yet. You know, what they wanted to there yet. You know, what they wanted to there yet. You know, what they wanted to do was be able to cast um do was be able to cast um do was be able to cast um >> they they wanted to be able to >> they they wanted to be able to >> they they wanted to be able to >> use any TV to basically video cast to. >> use any TV to basically video cast to. >> use any TV to basically video cast to. And today that's common, And today that's common, And today that's common, >> right? you know, I mean, whether you >> right? you know, I mean, whether you >> right? you know, I mean, whether you have Apple TV or Google Play or, you have Apple TV or Google Play or, you have Apple TV or Google Play or, you know, any of these, you know, built-in know, any of these, you know, built-in know, any of these, you know, built-in things, you can just display to your TV. things, you can just display to your TV. things, you can just display to your TV. No extra hardware. But these companies No extra hardware. But these companies No extra hardware. But these companies have built it for it. This this person have built it for it. This this person have built it for it. This this person had this idea way back 10 years ago had this idea way back 10 years ago had this idea way back 10 years ago before anyone had done that.

before anyone had done that. before anyone had done that. >> And it it's >> And it it's >> And it it's I like to say I used to think great I like to say I used to think great I like to say I used to think great ideas were the hardest part of starting ideas were the hardest part of starting ideas were the hardest part of starting a business, you know, but honestly, it's a business, you know, but honestly, it's a business, you know, but honestly, it's it's the carry through and all the it's the carry through and all the it's the carry through and all the follow-up [snorts] work, follow-up [snorts] work, follow-up [snorts] work, >> the execution, right? That's that's >> the execution, right? That's that's >> the execution, right? That's that's that's the extreme challenge. And that's the extreme challenge. And that's the extreme challenge. And honestly, I don't know how there's a few honestly, I don't know how there's a few honestly, I don't know how there's a few people I've seen them do it by their people I've seen them do it by their people I've seen them do it by their peers, they do it by themselves. I don't peers, they do it by themselves. I don't peers, they do it by themselves. I don't know how they do it, you know, I could know how they do it, you know, I could know how they do it, you know, I could never, right? never, right? never, right? >> You know, and and that's that's kind of >> You know, and and that's that's kind of >> You know, and and that's that's kind of key is that, you know, I don't think in key is that, you know, I don't think in key is that, you know, I don't think in this day and age, you know, there's a this day and age, you know, there's a this day and age, you know, there's a lot of push for, you know, with with lot of push for, you know, with with lot of push for, you know, with with different products, different tools, you different products, different tools, you different products, different tools, you you can do all this by yourself. But the you can do all this by yourself. But the you can do all this by yourself. But the reality is is that may be from just a reality is is that may be from just a reality is is that may be from just a product, but how do you get it to product, but how do you get it to product, but how do you get it to market? How do you support it? How do market? How do you support it? How do market? How do you support it? How do you how do you do your finances? Those you how do you do your finances? Those you how do you do your finances? Those things are missing from the the things are missing from the the things are missing from the the conversation. And that's kind of where, conversation. And that's kind of where, conversation. And that's kind of where, you know, I come in, WS comes in and you know, I come in, WS comes in and you know, I come in, WS comes in and we're kind of looking at it from what is we're kind of looking at it from what is we're kind of looking at it from what is that idea and how are you going to get that idea and how are you going to get that idea and how are you going to get it to market? How are you going to it to market? How are you going to it to market? How are you going to support it? How are you going to deliver support it? How are you going to deliver support it? How are you going to deliver that and sustain it with a customer that and sustain it with a customer that and sustain it with a customer base? You know, all of those different base? You know, all of those different base? You know, all of those different things come into it. And a lot of times things come into it. And a lot of times things come into it. And a lot of times a founder may come in and say, "Uh, I I a founder may come in and say, "Uh, I I a founder may come in and say, "Uh, I I don't know. I've got to get this. Well, don't know. I've got to get this. Well, don't know. I've got to get this. Well, what's the road map look like?" You what's the road map look like?" You what's the road map look like?" You know, and that's kind of the the key is know, and that's kind of the the key is know, and that's kind of the the key is a lot of times it's kind of just in a lot of times it's kind of just in a lot of times it's kind of just in time. You're doing, you know, 20 things time. You're doing, you know, 20 things time. You're doing, you know, 20 things day one, you know, another 40 things day one, you know, another 40 things day one, you know, another 40 things because you didn't finish the 20 the day because you didn't finish the 20 the day because you didn't finish the 20 the day before. So, it just kind of piles up and before. So, it just kind of piles up and before. So, it just kind of piles up and by the end of the week, you've got a 100 by the end of the week, you've got a 100 by the end of the week, you've got a 100 things to do. And if you're a solo things to do. And if you're a solo things to do. And if you're a solo person, you know, that's really, you

person, you know, that's really, you person, you know, that's really, you know, where's the weekend and everything know, where's the weekend and everything know, where's the weekend and everything else. So that's kind of where a lot of else. So that's kind of where a lot of else. So that's kind of where a lot of times like what W was saying at the end times like what W was saying at the end times like what W was saying at the end of the day is you really have to kind of of the day is you really have to kind of of the day is you really have to kind of take a step back if you really want this take a step back if you really want this take a step back if you really want this to be a successful business. You have to to be a successful business. You have to to be a successful business. You have to kind of start to who are you going to kind of start to who are you going to kind of start to who are you going to trust? Who are you going to lean on and trust? Who are you going to lean on and trust? Who are you going to lean on and start forming that organization around start forming that organization around start forming that organization around you to start delivering that because at you to start delivering that because at you to start delivering that because at the end of the day you're working on not the end of the day you're working on not the end of the day you're working on not an idea but a business and and it's fine an idea but a business and and it's fine an idea but a business and and it's fine if you want to work on the idea and you if you want to work on the idea and you if you want to work on the idea and you don't really want it to be a business. don't really want it to be a business. don't really want it to be a business. it. Not every business that you create it. Not every business that you create it. Not every business that you create has to be super successful, but the idea has to be super successful, but the idea has to be super successful, but the idea is why did you get in this in the first is why did you get in this in the first is why did you get in this in the first place um because it's a lot of work, you place um because it's a lot of work, you place um because it's a lot of work, you know, at the end of the day. So, you know, at the end of the day. So, you know, at the end of the day. So, you have to kind of figure out what path you have to kind of figure out what path you have to kind of figure out what path you want to kind of move forward to. So, want to kind of move forward to. So, want to kind of move forward to. So, >> you know, I've been surprised just >> you know, I've been surprised just >> you know, I've been surprised just recently with founders that have been recently with founders that have been recently with founders that have been coming into the Noble Founder ecosystem coming into the Noble Founder ecosystem coming into the Noble Founder ecosystem and thank you all for your support with and thank you all for your support with and thank you all for your support with our Noble Founder. No problem. Um our Noble Founder. No problem. Um our Noble Founder. No problem. Um >> we're glad this organization exists, by >> we're glad this organization exists, by >> we're glad this organization exists, by the way. the way. the way. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Um, but I've it's been interesting to me >> Um, but I've it's been interesting to me >> Um, but I've it's been interesting to me to speak to founders that are that are to speak to founders that are that are to speak to founders that are that are already building and even marketing, but already building and even marketing, but already building and even marketing, but they don't know if they want an investor they don't know if they want an investor they don't know if they want an investor or not or they don't know where they're or not or they don't know where they're or not or they don't know where they're going.

going. going. >> You know, it's it's it's really >> You know, it's it's it's really >> You know, it's it's it's really interesting. It's like [snorts] interesting. It's like [snorts] interesting. It's like [snorts] a great idea can either be a hobby, a great idea can either be a hobby, a great idea can either be a hobby, something that you're building, but and something that you're building, but and something that you're building, but and you're building for the sake of you're building for the sake of you're building for the sake of building. Most builders love to build. Y building. Most builders love to build. Y building. Most builders love to build. Y >> and there's nothing wrong with that, >> and there's nothing wrong with that, >> and there's nothing wrong with that, right? right? right? >> You know, >> You know, >> You know, >> but when you want to take something from >> but when you want to take something from >> but when you want to take something from an idea that you build and you have an idea that you build and you have an idea that you build and you have working on your laptop working on your laptop working on your laptop to something that actually has customers to something that actually has customers to something that actually has customers and everything that it means that that and everything that it means that that and everything that it means that that means meaning the support for those means meaning the support for those means meaning the support for those customers. customers. customers. >> You know what happens when someone asks >> You know what happens when someone asks >> You know what happens when someone asks for something outside the lines. Is that for something outside the lines. Is that for something outside the lines. Is that a business opportunity or is that a no? a business opportunity or is that a no? a business opportunity or is that a no? How do we do that? You know, How do we do that? You know, How do we do that? You know, >> it's like >> it's like >> it's like >> and and it's hard because you have to >> and and it's hard because you have to >> and and it's hard because you have to make a decision whether you're doing make a decision whether you're doing make a decision whether you're doing this because you just love it or you're this because you just love it or you're this because you just love it or you're doing this because you're trying to doing this because you're trying to doing this because you're trying to build a business. And at that point, build a business. And at that point, build a business. And at that point, that's when all the hard compromises you that's when all the hard compromises you that's when all the hard compromises you have to make, have to make, have to make, >> right? you know, because you may want to >> right? you know, because you may want to >> right? you know, because you may want to build something and you may want to give build something and you may want to give build something and you may want to give it away for free, for instance, but it away for free, for instance, but it away for free, for instance, but there there's very I can't I haven't there there's very I can't I haven't there there's very I can't I haven't seen anything free in this world seen anything free in this world seen anything free in this world [laughter] yet. So, you have to figure [laughter] yet. So, you have to figure [laughter] yet. So, you have to figure out how to pay for that, right?

out how to pay for that, right? out how to pay for that, right? >> Even if you want to give it away, right? >> Even if you want to give it away, right? >> Even if you want to give it away, right? >> You know, and how do you do that? >> You know, and how do you do that? >> You know, and how do you do that? >> Even a nonprofit is for profit. >> Even a nonprofit is for profit. >> Even a nonprofit is for profit. >> They have to be, >> They have to be, >> They have to be, >> you know, otherwise how do they, you >> you know, otherwise how do they, you >> you know, otherwise how do they, you know, charities have a focus of, you know, charities have a focus of, you know, charities have a focus of, you know, they want to do good in the world. know, they want to do good in the world. know, they want to do good in the world. Uh but if you're in the if you're in the Uh but if you're in the if you're in the Uh but if you're in the if you're in the business to make money and support your business to make money and support your business to make money and support your team and support your product, you have team and support your product, you have team and support your product, you have to build that as part of the process. to build that as part of the process. to build that as part of the process. You know, it's not it's not a bad thing. You know, it's not it's not a bad thing. You know, it's not it's not a bad thing. It's just you have to decide where you It's just you have to decide where you It's just you have to decide where you want to be in that in that business want to be in that in that business want to be in that in that business cycle. Otherwise, it like once said, cycle. Otherwise, it like once said, cycle. Otherwise, it like once said, it's it it's a hobby and that's great, it's it it's a hobby and that's great, it's it it's a hobby and that's great, but it doesn't you know, if that's your but it doesn't you know, if that's your but it doesn't you know, if that's your only source of income, then you really only source of income, then you really only source of income, then you really need to figure out are you going to do need to figure out are you going to do need to figure out are you going to do this? Are you going to go back to this? Are you going to go back to this? Are you going to go back to traditional work? are you going to traditional work? are you going to traditional work? are you going to really focus and make this, you know, a really focus and make this, you know, a really focus and make this, you know, a reality? reality? reality? >> And for me, you know, it the word >> And for me, you know, it the word >> And for me, you know, it the word sustainable is is is thrown around a lot sustainable is is is thrown around a lot sustainable is is is thrown around a lot for the environment, but you know, in for the environment, but you know, in for the environment, but you know, in business, it matters, too, right? business, it matters, too, right? business, it matters, too, right? >> Because if you build something, but you >> Because if you build something, but you >> Because if you build something, but you can't sustain it, can't sustain it, can't sustain it, >> then then it's not going to stick around >> then then it's not going to stick around >> then then it's not going to stick around long. And and what that that really long. And and what that that really long. And and what that that really means is finding building the product, means is finding building the product, means is finding building the product, finding your customers and finding a way finding your customers and finding a way finding your customers and finding a way to connect with them to where you to connect with them to where you to connect with them to where you provide a service to them.

provide a service to them. provide a service to them. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> And they value it and and they part of >> And they value it and and they part of >> And they value it and and they part of that contract is they have to that contract is they have to that contract is they have to >> provide you enough res, you know, pay or >> provide you enough res, you know, pay or >> provide you enough res, you know, pay or whatever to keep it going, whatever to keep it going, whatever to keep it going, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> You know, and as simple as as that is, >> You know, and as simple as as that is, >> You know, and as simple as as that is, it's it's extremely hard to do, you You it's it's extremely hard to do, you You it's it's extremely hard to do, you You know, I mean, it's a simple concept, you know, I mean, it's a simple concept, you know, I mean, it's a simple concept, you know, be sustainable, you know, and and know, be sustainable, you know, and and know, be sustainable, you know, and and a lot of people will start a small a lot of people will start a small a lot of people will start a small business. Sure. A business. Sure. A business. Sure. A >> and they and this is one of my peas is >> and they and this is one of my peas is >> and they and this is one of my peas is when when people start a small business when when people start a small business when when people start a small business and they show how much money they're and they show how much money they're and they show how much money they're making, making, making, >> but if you zoom the camera back, >> but if you zoom the camera back, >> but if you zoom the camera back, >> it's their mom and dad doing all the >> it's their mom and dad doing all the >> it's their mom and dad doing all the work for free. It's their uncle, you work for free. It's their uncle, you work for free. It's their uncle, you know, who's out working for free, right? know, who's out working for free, right? know, who's out working for free, right? And and this person who started the And and this person who started the And and this person who started the business business business >> is like, "Oh, look, we made this much >> is like, "Oh, look, we made this much >> is like, "Oh, look, we made this much money this month." but they're relying money this month." but they're relying money this month." but they're relying on all their relatives donation etc. And on all their relatives donation etc. And on all their relatives donation etc. And that's a very common thing but at some that's a very common thing but at some that's a very common thing but at some point you have to start being able to point you have to start being able to point you have to start being able to pay those people back or else you don't pay those people back or else you don't pay those people back or else you don't have a sustainable business. have a sustainable business. have a sustainable business. >> Your business has to stand on its own. >> Your business has to stand on its own. >> Your business has to stand on its own. So there's multiple ways. I mean and So there's multiple ways. I mean and So there's multiple ways. I mean and that's kind of what we were talking that's kind of what we were talking that's kind of what we were talking about before is like there's road maps.

about before is like there's road maps. about before is like there's road maps. So like and even Ben refers to this like So like and even Ben refers to this like So like and even Ben refers to this like where are you at in your journey? You where are you at in your journey? You where are you at in your journey? You know at the very beginning you may have know at the very beginning you may have know at the very beginning you may have created a product you know but how are created a product you know but how are created a product you know but how are you going to sustain that product? how you going to sustain that product? how you going to sustain that product? how are you going to move it forward? You are you going to move it forward? You are you going to move it forward? You know, and and like W was saying, at the know, and and like W was saying, at the know, and and like W was saying, at the end of the day, you know, you've got all end of the day, you know, you've got all end of the day, you know, you've got all this support, but is that sustainable as this support, but is that sustainable as this support, but is that sustainable as well? Or do you have to kind of start to well? Or do you have to kind of start to well? Or do you have to kind of start to say, okay, I need to be profitable to be say, okay, I need to be profitable to be say, okay, I need to be profitable to be able to pay for staff, to be able to pay able to pay for staff, to be able to pay able to pay for staff, to be able to pay for support, to be able to pay for for support, to be able to pay for for support, to be able to pay for marketing. All of those things add up marketing. All of those things add up marketing. All of those things add up and you've got to start to build that as and you've got to start to build that as and you've got to start to build that as part of your business profile, your you part of your business profile, your you part of your business profile, your you know, otherwise it it won't be know, otherwise it it won't be know, otherwise it it won't be successful. And you'll have a great successful. And you'll have a great successful. And you'll have a great idea, but it just it won't be idea, but it just it won't be idea, but it just it won't be sustainable, sustainable, sustainable, >> right? And and so I mean as a as a >> right? And and so I mean as a as a >> right? And and so I mean as a as a founder, right, in the beginning it's founder, right, in the beginning it's founder, right, in the beginning it's it's kind of like a how do I say this it's kind of like a how do I say this it's kind of like a how do I say this without swearing? Like a cluster f. without swearing? Like a cluster f. without swearing? Like a cluster f. >> Yeah. Well, it's it's chaos at the >> Yeah. Well, it's it's chaos at the >> Yeah. Well, it's it's chaos at the beginning, beginning, beginning, >> right? Chaos. There we go. That's >> right? Chaos. There we go. That's >> right? Chaos. There we go. That's another word. another word. another word. >> Sure. Sure. That's [laughter] the uh >> Sure. Sure. That's [laughter] the uh >> Sure. Sure. That's [laughter] the uh Yeah, sure. Yeah, sure. Yeah, sure. >> You know, it's chaos. But but so but so >> You know, it's chaos. But but so but so >> You know, it's chaos. But but so but so just how you need to land on strategy, just how you need to land on strategy, just how you need to land on strategy, right? Correct. and how you're not only right? Correct. and how you're not only right? Correct. and how you're not only providing the technology and the providing the technology and the providing the technology and the infrastructure that's required, but infrastructure that's required, but infrastructure that's required, but you're also able to be fractional.

you're also able to be fractional. you're also able to be fractional. >> Exactly. So, a lot of that has to do >> Exactly. So, a lot of that has to do >> Exactly. So, a lot of that has to do with like, you know, when Winston and I with like, you know, when Winston and I with like, you know, when Winston and I were connected, and by the way, you were connected, and by the way, you were connected, and by the way, you asked this earlier, like we've known asked this earlier, like we've known asked this earlier, like we've known each other for a very long time. And and each other for a very long time. And and each other for a very long time. And and the thing is is that with fractional the thing is is that with fractional the thing is is that with fractional really the idea is that you may be in really the idea is that you may be in really the idea is that you may be in and making key [snorts] decisions to and making key [snorts] decisions to and making key [snorts] decisions to help that company move forward. So, as a help that company move forward. So, as a help that company move forward. So, as a fractional, your role is to kind of come fractional, your role is to kind of come fractional, your role is to kind of come in and there may be tactical things, in and there may be tactical things, in and there may be tactical things, there may be strategic things that there may be strategic things that there may be strategic things that you're looking at, but at the end of the you're looking at, but at the end of the you're looking at, but at the end of the day, when it comes to decisions around day, when it comes to decisions around day, when it comes to decisions around the company, that's the strategic value the company, that's the strategic value the company, that's the strategic value that you bring to the table. You may that you bring to the table. You may that you bring to the table. You may spend two hours and that may be all you spend two hours and that may be all you spend two hours and that may be all you spend that week with that company spend that week with that company spend that week with that company because you've got other activities because you've got other activities because you've got other activities going on, but during those two hours, going on, but during those two hours, going on, but during those two hours, that's really the key decisions because that's really the key decisions because that's really the key decisions because they may be on the cusp of, hey, do we they may be on the cusp of, hey, do we they may be on the cusp of, hey, do we build this? Do we spend here? do we turn build this? Do we spend here? do we turn build this? Do we spend here? do we turn around and build another product? Those around and build another product? Those around and build another product? Those are key decisions because if they make are key decisions because if they make are key decisions because if they make the wrong decision without having that the wrong decision without having that the wrong decision without having that guidance, that could be the end of that guidance, that could be the end of that guidance, that could be the end of that company. You know, they only have a company. You know, they only have a company. You know, they only have a certain amount of funds. They only have certain amount of funds. They only have certain amount of funds. They only have a certain amount of time to make a certain amount of time to make a certain amount of time to make decisions. And that's really the key decisions. And that's really the key decisions. And that's really the key thing. You have to kind of be thing. You have to kind of be thing. You have to kind of be >> are you, you know, when you're a part of >> are you, you know, when you're a part of >> are you, you know, when you're a part of that and you're doing fractional work, that and you're doing fractional work, that and you're doing fractional work, you also have to kind of help take a you also have to kind of help take a you also have to kind of help take a step back. Either you are a part of it, step back. Either you are a part of it, step back. Either you are a part of it, you may own it, you may, you know, you you may own it, you may, you know, you you may own it, you may, you know, you may just be there just for the time to may just be there just for the time to may just be there just for the time to say, "Hey, we need help, you know, say, "Hey, we need help, you know, say, "Hey, we need help, you know, bringing the product to market or we bringing the product to market or we bringing the product to market or we need help in marketing." You may just be need help in marketing." You may just be need help in marketing." You may just be connecting two people and say, "Hey, connecting two people and say, "Hey, connecting two people and say, "Hey, here's the person that can help you with here's the person that can help you with here's the person that can help you with marketing to get you over this. It's marketing to get you over this. It's marketing to get you over this. It's going to be x amount of cost." Things

going to be x amount of cost." Things going to be x amount of cost." Things like that. like that. like that. >> You know, when you when you first start >> You know, when you when you first start >> You know, when you when you first start a business, if you haven't done a business, if you haven't done a business, if you haven't done something once, it feels so impossible, something once, it feels so impossible, something once, it feels so impossible, right? right? right? >> You know, >> You know, >> You know, >> the rock is so heavy. You know, it >> the rock is so heavy. You know, it >> the rock is so heavy. You know, it [laughter] is that's how you pushing it [laughter] is that's how you pushing it [laughter] is that's how you pushing it up. It really is. It feels impossible. up. It really is. It feels impossible. up. It really is. It feels impossible. And And And >> for me, >> for me, >> for me, >> working with Ken, you know, as in with >> working with Ken, you know, as in with >> working with Ken, you know, as in with his in his fractional his in his fractional his in his fractional role with us, you know, a a lot of the role with us, you know, a a lot of the role with us, you know, a a lot of the things that we tackle, we had never seen things that we tackle, we had never seen things that we tackle, we had never seen before. We've never had any experience before. We've never had any experience before. We've never had any experience writing up certain contracts, you know, writing up certain contracts, you know, writing up certain contracts, you know, for for the next level of the business for for the next level of the business for for the next level of the business that we're we're at things where Ken has that we're we're at things where Ken has that we're we're at things where Ken has seen some of those things, you know. So seen some of those things, you know. So seen some of those things, you know. So a lot of times it's just having the a lot of times it's just having the a lot of times it's just having the confidence of someone else who has seen confidence of someone else who has seen confidence of someone else who has seen it before it before it before >> can give you some you know gotchas or >> can give you some you know gotchas or >> can give you some you know gotchas or let's think about this and help you let's think about this and help you let's think about this and help you [snorts] think you know and get in the [snorts] think you know and get in the [snorts] think you know and get in the mind frame of preparing to tackle it you mind frame of preparing to tackle it you mind frame of preparing to tackle it you know and that's kind of the hardest know and that's kind of the hardest know and that's kind of the hardest challenge of of being a founder is every challenge of of being a founder is every challenge of of being a founder is every day is a new challenge you know and day is a new challenge you know and day is a new challenge you know and >> and every day and and that and that to >> and every day and and that and that to >> and every day and and that and that to me that also ties in with the ownership me that also ties in with the ownership me that also ties in with the ownership you have to really want to own the you have to really want to own the you have to really want to own the product or the challenge because if product or the challenge because if product or the challenge because if you're kind of just in it for the money, you're kind of just in it for the money, you're kind of just in it for the money, right, right, right, >> there's probably always easier ways to >> there's probably always easier ways to >> there's probably always easier ways to make money, right?

make money, right? make money, right? >> You know, and and that's pro I would >> You know, and and that's pro I would >> You know, and and that's pro I would probably recommend you probably recommend you probably recommend you >> to really think about it because >> to really think about it because >> to really think about it because [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] it's it's a it's a big investment of it's it's a it's a big investment of it's it's a it's a big investment of time and effort and it's and everyone time and effort and it's and everyone time and effort and it's and everyone will tell you it's you know, you have to will tell you it's you know, you have to will tell you it's you know, you have to have the resilience and everything, but have the resilience and everything, but have the resilience and everything, but so does your family. Everyone around you so does your family. Everyone around you so does your family. Everyone around you has to have the resilience and the has to have the resilience and the has to have the resilience and the fortitude fortitude fortitude to do it every to do it every to do it every >> day. Oh my god. Yeah. >> day. Oh my god. Yeah. >> day. Oh my god. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean it it comes with the >> Yeah. I mean it it comes with the >> Yeah. I mean it it comes with the territory from it. One is believe in territory from it. One is believe in territory from it. One is believe in yourself and then the other is kind of yourself and then the other is kind of yourself and then the other is kind of if you have a product it's believing in if you have a product it's believing in if you have a product it's believing in that product. But you know there's going that product. But you know there's going that product. But you know there's going to come times and days where you know to come times and days where you know to come times and days where you know you may be challenged as a part of that. you may be challenged as a part of that. you may be challenged as a part of that. And that's where you lean on, you know, And that's where you lean on, you know, And that's where you lean on, you know, whether you have a fractional, whether whether you have a fractional, whether whether you have a fractional, whether you have people around you that are part you have people around you that are part you have people around you that are part of your network cuz as we mentioned of your network cuz as we mentioned of your network cuz as we mentioned before, it's if you're doing this all by before, it's if you're doing this all by before, it's if you're doing this all by yourself, it it can feel, you know, like yourself, it it can feel, you know, like yourself, it it can feel, you know, like you're pushing that boulder up that hill you're pushing that boulder up that hill you're pushing that boulder up that hill and it's a lot of work. But if you have and it's a lot of work. But if you have and it's a lot of work. But if you have more people behind you then eventually more people behind you then eventually more people behind you then eventually you can deliver that in a very quick way you can deliver that in a very quick way you can deliver that in a very quick way because at the end of the journey you because at the end of the journey you because at the end of the journey you know there are people who are willing to know there are people who are willing to know there are people who are willing to invest in your company. If you are able invest in your company. If you are able invest in your company. If you are able to take it to market, you're able to to take it to market, you're able to to take it to market, you're able to present that I'm sustainable with present that I'm sustainable with present that I'm sustainable with customers, that I'm sustainable with, customers, that I'm sustainable with, customers, that I'm sustainable with, you know, people really want to see this you know, people really want to see this you know, people really want to see this product, then at some point somebody's product, then at some point somebody's product, then at some point somebody's going to invest in you or you're going going to invest in you or you're going going to invest in you or you're going to have enough customers to basically be to have enough customers to basically be to have enough customers to basically be sustainable on your own that you don't sustainable on your own that you don't sustainable on your own that you don't even need to take investment on.

even need to take investment on. even need to take investment on. >> Right. Right. And you know, just with >> Right. Right. And you know, just with >> Right. Right. And you know, just with y'all's support and then we recently got y'all's support and then we recently got y'all's support and then we recently got an admin and shout out to Vanessa if an admin and shout out to Vanessa if an admin and shout out to Vanessa if she's listening. she's listening. she's listening. >> Yeah. Hey, Vanessa. She just even that >> Yeah. Hey, Vanessa. She just even that >> Yeah. Hey, Vanessa. She just even that and and we're building the team slowly, and and we're building the team slowly, and and we're building the team slowly, right? right? right? >> And and it does take time to trust. It >> And and it does take time to trust. It >> And and it does take time to trust. It does take time to even get all of that does take time to even get all of that does take time to even get all of that like in your brain out of your brain and like in your brain out of your brain and like in your brain out of your brain and be able to communicate that and direct be able to communicate that and direct be able to communicate that and direct others, right? But the ability to have others, right? But the ability to have others, right? But the ability to have people around you that people around you that people around you that >> know what you don't know, [laughter] >> know what you don't know, [laughter] >> know what you don't know, [laughter] >> and to be able to be like, "That's a >> and to be able to be like, "That's a >> and to be able to be like, "That's a blind spot. If you do this, it'll be so blind spot. If you do this, it'll be so blind spot. If you do this, it'll be so much faster." like just just with y'all much faster." like just just with y'all much faster." like just just with y'all and and the team that we've put together and and the team that we've put together and and the team that we've put together and our admin, the amount of things that and our admin, the amount of things that and our admin, the amount of things that we're now able to tackle and the the we're now able to tackle and the the we're now able to tackle and the the confidence that that has given us, confidence that that has given us, confidence that that has given us, right? And like how you feel supported right? And like how you feel supported right? And like how you feel supported because you're because it's not it's not because you're because it's not it's not because you're because it's not it's not only like like people see your vision only like like people see your vision only like like people see your vision and and they're they're rooting for you. and and they're they're rooting for you. and and they're they're rooting for you. It's like your team, right? Like you're It's like your team, right? Like you're It's like your team, right? Like you're they're cheering you on. So, how how they're cheering you on. So, how how they're cheering you on. So, how how that can turn into actual systems and that can turn into actual systems and that can turn into actual systems and infrastructure and money, right?

infrastructure and money, right? infrastructure and money, right? Correct. And so, so I'm I'm just curious Correct. And so, so I'm I'm just curious Correct. And so, so I'm I'm just curious like some stories, right, of some like some stories, right, of some like some stories, right, of some founders that y'all have met or projects founders that y'all have met or projects founders that y'all have met or projects that you worked on um just when when do that you worked on um just when when do that you worked on um just when when do when do founders when do founders when do founders realize that they need fractional realize that they need fractional realize that they need fractional support or or just stories that you've support or or just stories that you've support or or just stories that you've had around that? maybe my role. Um had around that? maybe my role. Um had around that? maybe my role. Um >> yeah, I mean [snorts] I would say >> yeah, I mean [snorts] I would say >> yeah, I mean [snorts] I would say there's a couple of things to look at at there's a couple of things to look at at there's a couple of things to look at at least that have come in my way and least that have come in my way and least that have come in my way and during my work. Um and it's really just during my work. Um and it's really just during my work. Um and it's really just guidance. I think it's one is kind of guidance. I think it's one is kind of guidance. I think it's one is kind of building that relationship with the building that relationship with the building that relationship with the individual. So I've met you know individual. So I've met you know individual. So I've met you know probably the last year you know working probably the last year you know working probably the last year you know working with the ion rice and different with the ion rice and different with the ion rice and different universities and people that I've worked universities and people that I've worked universities and people that I've worked with in the past. Um really just with in the past. Um really just with in the past. Um really just reaching out and connecting with them. reaching out and connecting with them. reaching out and connecting with them. One of the things that I I would see is One of the things that I I would see is One of the things that I I would see is that connecting with one of the that connecting with one of the that connecting with one of the founders, you know, he's an individual founders, you know, he's an individual founders, you know, he's an individual that has worked probably since he was, that has worked probably since he was, that has worked probably since he was, you know, 11, 12, just kind of creating you know, 11, 12, just kind of creating you know, 11, 12, just kind of creating ideas. And that was interesting. I mean, ideas. And that was interesting. I mean, ideas. And that was interesting. I mean, now he's in college, he's second year now he's in college, he's second year now he's in college, he's second year and so forth, and we'll probably end up and so forth, and we'll probably end up and so forth, and we'll probably end up crossing paths [snorts] with him at some crossing paths [snorts] with him at some crossing paths [snorts] with him at some point. But it was an interesting point. But it was an interesting point. But it was an interesting conversation because it was just a, hey, conversation because it was just a, hey, conversation because it was just a, hey, I've got some I've got some questions.

I've got some I've got some questions. I've got some I've got some questions. Can I lean on you? Can I talk to you? Can I lean on you? Can I talk to you? Can I lean on you? Can I talk to you? And we just started having that And we just started having that And we just started having that conversation. built up that relationship conversation. built up that relationship conversation. built up that relationship to say, "Hey, you know, when you get to to say, "Hey, you know, when you get to to say, "Hey, you know, when you get to a point, you know, here's some key a point, you know, here's some key a point, you know, here's some key decisions that you might need to make on decisions that you might need to make on decisions that you might need to make on your company. Um, you know, here's my your company. Um, you know, here's my your company. Um, you know, here's my number. You know, let's let's begin that number. You know, let's let's begin that number. You know, let's let's begin that conversation and see, you know, what conversation and see, you know, what conversation and see, you know, what what that became." And really, it's what that became." And really, it's what that became." And really, it's somebody that, you know, he's just somebody that, you know, he's just somebody that, you know, he's just looking for, hey, here's some advice. looking for, hey, here's some advice. looking for, hey, here's some advice. And so, it starts like that. And then And so, it starts like that. And then And so, it starts like that. And then not everything is um you know in this not everything is um you know in this not everything is um you know in this line of work is always you know there's line of work is always you know there's line of work is always you know there's there's a time and a place for oh okay there's a time and a place for oh okay there's a time and a place for oh okay there's a budget and it's associated there's a budget and it's associated there's a budget and it's associated with that and then there's hey someone with that and then there's hey someone with that and then there's hey someone really needs you know guidance and it's really needs you know guidance and it's really needs you know guidance and it's your opportunity to really you know kind your opportunity to really you know kind your opportunity to really you know kind of provide that and so you got to be of provide that and so you got to be of provide that and so you got to be true to yourself that you want to help true to yourself that you want to help true to yourself that you want to help people and that's me from a just working people and that's me from a just working people and that's me from a just working in service and executive and just always in service and executive and just always in service and executive and just always being around that is yeah there's a time being around that is yeah there's a time being around that is yeah there's a time and a place to deliver the project and a place to deliver the project and a place to deliver the project there's budget all that kind of stuff there's budget all that kind of stuff there's budget all that kind of stuff But it's also being a human being uh you But it's also being a human being uh you But it's also being a human being uh you know to other people and just trying to know to other people and just trying to know to other people and just trying to say hey if you need help you know if say hey if you need help you know if say hey if you need help you know if I've got the time you know let's let's I've got the time you know let's let's I've got the time you know let's let's have a conversation. Let's see where we have a conversation. Let's see where we have a conversation. Let's see where we can go and see how I can help you can go and see how I can help you can go and see how I can help you deliver this project or whatever that deliver this project or whatever that deliver this project or whatever that question you had. And so it was a unique question you had. And so it was a unique question you had. And so it was a unique opportunity really just to kind of talk opportunity really just to kind of talk opportunity really just to kind of talk with him and just kind of say, "Hey," with him and just kind of say, "Hey," with him and just kind of say, "Hey," and and it kind of helped him because and and it kind of helped him because and and it kind of helped him because he's come back a couple of months later he's come back a couple of months later he's come back a couple of months later and said, "Hey, yeah, these are and said, "Hey, yeah, these are and said, "Hey, yeah, these are conversations we've had." And then he's conversations we've had." And then he's conversations we've had." And then he's like, "Hey, I've I've gone on. I'm now like, "Hey, I've I've gone on. I'm now like, "Hey, I've I've gone on. I'm now looking for my next thing." Um, and so looking for my next thing." Um, and so looking for my next thing." Um, and so we'll connect again and talk from there.

we'll connect again and talk from there. we'll connect again and talk from there. So yeah, it's kind of interesting just, So yeah, it's kind of interesting just, So yeah, it's kind of interesting just, you know, like for me it's always about you know, like for me it's always about you know, like for me it's always about the connection. And you know for me you the connection. And you know for me you the connection. And you know for me you know I'll answer the question from the know I'll answer the question from the know I'll answer the question from the other side from from from our side we other side from from from our side we other side from from from our side we have so much technical experience that's have so much technical experience that's have so much technical experience that's that's easy so we we built this that's easy so we we built this that's easy so we we built this complicated network and all this you complicated network and all this you complicated network and all this you know and that's the easy part for us you know and that's the easy part for us you know and that's the easy part for us you know taking our business to the next know taking our business to the next know taking our business to the next level level level and really and really and really finding the right customers to grow finding the right customers to grow finding the right customers to grow together with is is a thing too And together with is is a thing too And together with is is a thing too And that's where we partnered with with Ken. that's where we partnered with with Ken. that's where we partnered with with Ken. We brought Ken in as as for fractional We brought Ken in as as for fractional We brought Ken in as as for fractional help, you know, and the big advantage help, you know, and the big advantage help, you know, and the big advantage for us has been for us has been for us has been it's not just a work that he does for us it's not just a work that he does for us it's not just a work that he does for us all the time. And I mean, trust me, all the time. And I mean, trust me, all the time. And I mean, trust me, that's that's that's it's been such a help just knowing it's been such a help just knowing it's been such a help just knowing someone else is keeping track of these someone else is keeping track of these someone else is keeping track of these meetings that I got to make sure to meetings that I got to make sure to meetings that I got to make sure to attend, [laughter] you know, and help me attend, [laughter] you know, and help me attend, [laughter] you know, and help me prior prioritize my limited time, things prior prioritize my limited time, things prior prioritize my limited time, things like that. But, like that. But, like that. But, >> right, >> right, >> right, >> the other thing that Ken has brought a >> the other thing that Ken has brought a >> the other thing that Ken has brought a lot is is his other relationships with lot is is his other relationships with lot is is his other relationships with other businesses, with other, other businesses, with other, other businesses, with other, you know, uh, opportunities. And and so you know, uh, opportunities. And and so you know, uh, opportunities. And and so to me, to me, to me, the building part was easy. The the building part was easy. The the building part was easy. The relationships was the hard part.

relationships was the hard part. relationships was the hard part. >> Meaning, and it's not that they're hard, >> Meaning, and it's not that they're hard, >> Meaning, and it's not that they're hard, it's just I don't have I hadn't focused it's just I don't have I hadn't focused it's just I don't have I hadn't focused on those contacts. I'm not used to going on those contacts. I'm not used to going on those contacts. I'm not used to going out and and talking like, hey, you know, out and and talking like, hey, you know, out and and talking like, hey, you know, how can we work together? Right? you how can we work together? Right? you how can we work together? Right? you know, and where Ken Ken really has know, and where Ken Ken really has know, and where Ken Ken really has helped us with that kind of stuff. You helped us with that kind of stuff. You helped us with that kind of stuff. You know, know, know, >> for us, it's a lot easier to run into a >> for us, it's a lot easier to run into a >> for us, it's a lot easier to run into a devel into an a founder who says, "I devel into an a founder who says, "I devel into an a founder who says, "I have this great idea, but I have no have this great idea, but I have no have this great idea, but I have no technical ability." And that's where I technical ability." And that's where I technical ability." And that's where I and just like what Ken does and just like what Ken does and just like what Ken does >> at Iron Grow, we're happy to give free >> at Iron Grow, we're happy to give free >> at Iron Grow, we're happy to give free advice. You know, advice. You know, advice. You know, >> if there's something off the shelf that >> if there's something off the shelf that >> if there's something off the shelf that I can say, "Oh, you just got to go get I can say, "Oh, you just got to go get I can say, "Oh, you just got to go get this. That's exactly what you want." this. That's exactly what you want." this. That's exactly what you want." >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> You know, we don't try to shoehorn >> You know, we don't try to shoehorn >> You know, we don't try to shoehorn custom code into everything. We try to custom code into everything. We try to custom code into everything. We try to look for the right solution look for the right solution look for the right solution >> for the problem at that time, you know, >> for the problem at that time, you know, >> for the problem at that time, you know, and and and that's really, and and and that's really, and and and that's really, >> you know, you give good advice, you you >> you know, you give good advice, you you >> you know, you give good advice, you you that you can stand behind. People learn that you can stand behind. People learn that you can stand behind. People learn that you're not just in it for a quick that you're not just in it for a quick that you're not just in it for a quick profit or or, you know, turn and burn, profit or or, you know, turn and burn, profit or or, you know, turn and burn, you know, and you answer the phone when you know, and you answer the phone when you know, and you answer the phone when they're looking for you and and that's they're looking for you and and that's they're looking for you and and that's how you prove you're someone you can be how you prove you're someone you can be how you prove you're someone you can be trusted. and and at the beginning, you trusted. and and at the beginning, you trusted. and and at the beginning, you know, when you're when you're in that know, when you're when you're in that know, when you're when you're in that and that and I always take it back to and that and I always take it back to and that and I always take it back to everything is connected by everything is connected by everything is connected by relationships. Meaning, you know, when relationships. Meaning, you know, when relationships. Meaning, you know, when you meet somebody, when you talk to you meet somebody, when you talk to you meet somebody, when you talk to them, you know, especially in a business them, you know, especially in a business them, you know, especially in a business setting, um that's where a lot of it is setting, um that's where a lot of it is setting, um that's where a lot of it is because eventually it turns into a because eventually it turns into a because eventually it turns into a contract, it turns into a project that contract, it turns into a project that contract, it turns into a project that turns into maybe support, maybe turns into maybe support, maybe turns into maybe support, maybe additional work after that. But if you additional work after that. But if you additional work after that. But if you haven't had that initial engagement of haven't had that initial engagement of haven't had that initial engagement of like really understand where they're at like really understand where they're at like really understand where they're at from the beginning, you may be pushing a

from the beginning, you may be pushing a from the beginning, you may be pushing a founder in a direction that they're not founder in a direction that they're not founder in a direction that they're not ready to go. So you really have to ready to go. So you really have to ready to go. So you really have to understand and have those conversations understand and have those conversations understand and have those conversations early up front. Where is the founder at? early up front. Where is the founder at? early up front. Where is the founder at? Where are they at in their journey? You Where are they at in their journey? You Where are they at in their journey? You know, if you're working on, you know, know, if you're working on, you know, know, if you're working on, you know, say you're working with the midsize say you're working with the midsize say you're working with the midsize enterprise customer, they have different enterprise customer, they have different enterprise customer, they have different agendas because they're like, "Hey, I'm agendas because they're like, "Hey, I'm agendas because they're like, "Hey, I'm in this situation. I need somebody to in this situation. I need somebody to in this situation. I need somebody to help me. I'm gonna bring in this help me. I'm gonna bring in this help me. I'm gonna bring in this contractor, which would be us, to come contractor, which would be us, to come contractor, which would be us, to come in and say, "Okay, let me start this in and say, "Okay, let me start this in and say, "Okay, let me start this project off and figure out all the project off and figure out all the project off and figure out all the pieces." And sometimes that's the type pieces." And sometimes that's the type pieces." And sometimes that's the type of work. But the other time, you know, of work. But the other time, you know, of work. But the other time, you know, that's really more fun is really sitting that's really more fun is really sitting that's really more fun is really sitting down with a founder who may have a down with a founder who may have a down with a founder who may have a really great idea, just isn't sure like, really great idea, just isn't sure like, really great idea, just isn't sure like, "Hey, I'm about to get funding. I'm "Hey, I'm about to get funding. I'm "Hey, I'm about to get funding. I'm about to do these different things. How about to do these different things. How about to do these different things. How can I h where should I go? I've got can I h where should I go? I've got can I h where should I go? I've got these three different things that are these three different things that are these three different things that are coming at me and I'm also dealing with coming at me and I'm also dealing with coming at me and I'm also dealing with this. Should I should I do A, B, or C? this. Should I should I do A, B, or C? this. Should I should I do A, B, or C? Well, you need to have those Well, you need to have those Well, you need to have those conversations upfront with them because conversations upfront with them because conversations upfront with them because otherwise it's it's kind of like, well, otherwise it's it's kind of like, well, otherwise it's it's kind of like, well, if you don't know what they're doing, if you don't know what they're doing, if you don't know what they're doing, then you know, well, let me know and then you know, well, let me know and then you know, well, let me know and then we'll get back like they may be then we'll get back like they may be then we'll get back like they may be looking for help. And for me, what what looking for help. And for me, what what looking for help. And for me, what what Ken's really describing is that Ken's really describing is that Ken's really describing is that >> for for us when when things are good and >> for for us when when things are good and >> for for us when when things are good and you [snorts] have time to think, you [snorts] have time to think, you [snorts] have time to think, >> you you really need to lock down what >> you you really need to lock down what >> you you really need to lock down what your north star is and what you're your north star is and what you're your north star is and what you're really aiming for because as things get really aiming for because as things get really aiming for because as things get hard, hard, hard, it gets really chaotic and it's easy to it gets really chaotic and it's easy to it gets really chaotic and it's easy to forget what you were trying to do forget what you were trying to do forget what you were trying to do >> and and it's easy to jump to anything.

>> and and it's easy to jump to anything. >> and and it's easy to jump to anything. And that's where someone who's maybe a And that's where someone who's maybe a And that's where someone who's maybe a partial, you know, COO or whatever partial, you know, COO or whatever partial, you know, COO or whatever remembers your vision, remembers your vision, remembers your vision, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> And can remind you and see if that's >> And can remind you and see if that's >> And can remind you and see if that's still what you're trying to do or if still what you're trying to do or if still what you're trying to do or if it's time to pivot pivot. You know, it's it's time to pivot pivot. You know, it's it's time to pivot pivot. You know, it's >> right >> right >> right >> because again, >> because again, >> because again, >> it's difficult. >> it's difficult. >> it's difficult. >> Again, if a founder is in there 24/7 and >> Again, if a founder is in there 24/7 and >> Again, if a founder is in there 24/7 and this is like their sole thing, but this is like their sole thing, but this is like their sole thing, but you're only available to them a couple you're only available to them a couple you're only available to them a couple hours a week because you're on other hours a week because you're on other hours a week because you're on other different things that you're working on. different things that you're working on. different things that you're working on. You know, you always like once said, you You know, you always like once said, you You know, you always like once said, you always have to kind of be a part of always have to kind of be a part of always have to kind of be a part of that. But if you have those that. But if you have those that. But if you have those conversations up front and you make sure conversations up front and you make sure conversations up front and you make sure that you utilize those couple hours a that you utilize those couple hours a that you utilize those couple hours a week with them, you make sure you're week with them, you make sure you're week with them, you make sure you're like always engaged like this is my like always engaged like this is my like always engaged like this is my client. This is who I'm working with. client. This is who I'm working with. client. This is who I'm working with. You know, you may be sitting on their You know, you may be sitting on their You know, you may be sitting on their board. You may be sitting, you know, in board. You may be sitting, you know, in board. You may be sitting, you know, in their team embedded, but at the end of their team embedded, but at the end of their team embedded, but at the end of the day, you're working to help them the day, you're working to help them the day, you're working to help them succeed for their goals. And you got to succeed for their goals. And you got to succeed for their goals. And you got to kind of make sure like reiterate that kind of make sure like reiterate that kind of make sure like reiterate that like as you meet and as you talk. That's like as you meet and as you talk. That's like as you meet and as you talk. That's really the key and that's kind of why I really the key and that's kind of why I really the key and that's kind of why I always take it back to it's a always take it back to it's a always take it back to it's a conversation. It's people. If you're conversation. It's people. If you're conversation. It's people. If you're like, I'm going to sit behind an AI like, I'm going to sit behind an AI like, I'm going to sit behind an AI terminal. I'm going to get all my stuff terminal. I'm going to get all my stuff terminal. I'm going to get all my stuff and use AI. Great. That helps you, but and use AI. Great. That helps you, but and use AI. Great. That helps you, but think of it as a tool. It's not the end think of it as a tool. It's not the end think of it as a tool. It's not the end all be all because it becomes an echo all be all because it becomes an echo all be all because it becomes an echo chamber and you know, so it's a problem.

chamber and you know, so it's a problem. chamber and you know, so it's a problem. >> Yeah, I was going to say I was going to >> Yeah, I was going to say I was going to >> Yeah, I was going to say I was going to say do say do say do >> I mean we're in technology and by all >> I mean we're in technology and by all >> I mean we're in technology and by all means AI. Yes. But I'm not, you know, means AI. Yes. But I'm not, you know, means AI. Yes. But I'm not, you know, I'm just saying that as we're talking I'm just saying that as we're talking I'm just saying that as we're talking about people and we're talking about about people and we're talking about about people and we're talking about that, we just want to make sure that that, we just want to make sure that that, we just want to make sure that that's really clear and, you know, it's that's really clear and, you know, it's that's really clear and, you know, it's always about that information. always about that information. always about that information. >> Yeah. Like the pro right the getting >> Yeah. Like the pro right the getting >> Yeah. Like the pro right the getting customers right and and really customers right and and really customers right and and really establishing your product market fit. establishing your product market fit. establishing your product market fit. You can't chat GBT that. You can't chat GBT that. You can't chat GBT that. >> No, >> No, >> No, >> you can't you can't like >> you can't you can't like >> you can't you can't like >> it's hard because chat's always on your >> it's hard because chat's always on your >> it's hard because chat's always on your side, you know. side, you know. side, you know. It's like you're doing great. These It's like you're doing great. These It's like you're doing great. These agents are always on your side and if agents are always on your side and if agents are always on your side and if you're only talking to them, you're only talking to them, you're only talking to them, >> yeah, it'll tell you everything's great. >> yeah, it'll tell you everything's great. >> yeah, it'll tell you everything's great. You you know, you just came up in and You you know, you just came up in and You you know, you just came up in and chat says, "I think we're breaking up. chat says, "I think we're breaking up. chat says, "I think we're breaking up. You're getting too close. You're asking You're getting too close. You're asking You're getting too close. You're asking me too much stuff." [laughter] me too much stuff." [laughter] me too much stuff." [laughter] >> But there are people that build their >> But there are people that build their >> But there are people that build their seuite. They they've built agents, seuite. They they've built agents, seuite. They they've built agents, right, for their right, for their right, for their >> seuite. Yes, that's true. Yeah. I mean, >> seuite. Yes, that's true. Yeah. I mean, >> seuite. Yes, that's true. Yeah. I mean, there are some leading edge companies there are some leading edge companies there are some leading edge companies that are really kind of moving into that that are really kind of moving into that that are really kind of moving into that direction. And again they're saying hey direction. And again they're saying hey direction. And again they're saying hey I can do all this by myself. I can have, I can do all this by myself. I can have, I can do all this by myself. I can have, you know, I can leverage AI and I can you know, I can leverage AI and I can you know, I can leverage AI and I can leverage that for, you know, but again, leverage that for, you know, but again, leverage that for, you know, but again, at the end of the day, who's driving at the end of the day, who's driving at the end of the day, who's driving that behind them? It's still the that behind them? It's still the that behind them? It's still the founder. And that founder may have other founder. And that founder may have other founder. And that founder may have other individuals, but it may be saying, "Hey, individuals, but it may be saying, "Hey, individuals, but it may be saying, "Hey, I've I've got somebody that's handling, I've I've got somebody that's handling, I've I've got somebody that's handling, you know, for [snorts] my financials.

you know, for [snorts] my financials. you know, for [snorts] my financials. You know, we met an individual before You know, we met an individual before You know, we met an individual before that said, hey, I'm using AI for, you that said, hey, I'm using AI for, you that said, hey, I'm using AI for, you know, all my financials, you know." So, know, all my financials, you know." So, know, all my financials, you know." So, different people have different takes on different people have different takes on different people have different takes on it. And also, it's from a cost it. And also, it's from a cost it. And also, it's from a cost perspective, right? So at the end of the perspective, right? So at the end of the perspective, right? So at the end of the day, if you say, "Hey, I can afford, you day, if you say, "Hey, I can afford, you day, if you say, "Hey, I can afford, you know, a couple of subscriptions versus I know, a couple of subscriptions versus I know, a couple of subscriptions versus I can afford three people." Okay. Well, can afford three people." Okay. Well, can afford three people." Okay. Well, you're going to make some decisions you're going to make some decisions you're going to make some decisions there. It and and again, every founder there. It and and again, every founder there. It and and again, every founder has a different way of looking at it. has a different way of looking at it. has a different way of looking at it. You know, our way is just different from You know, our way is just different from You know, our way is just different from others and how we've done things. others and how we've done things. others and how we've done things. >> Yeah. I I I think the the people the >> Yeah. I I I think the the people the >> Yeah. I I I think the the people the people parts of the business, I'm always people parts of the business, I'm always people parts of the business, I'm always like, keep that to the people, right? like, keep that to the people, right? like, keep that to the people, right? [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> There is a lot of things that you >> There is a lot of things that you >> There is a lot of things that you >> Yeah. I read a story I read a story a >> Yeah. I read a story I read a story a >> Yeah. I read a story I read a story a couple of weeks ago that I think it was couple of weeks ago that I think it was couple of weeks ago that I think it was out of Silicon Valley and I don't know out of Silicon Valley and I don't know out of Silicon Valley and I don't know if it's more of just them pressing for if it's more of just them pressing for if it's more of just them pressing for them but it was talking about the AI them but it was talking about the AI them but it was talking about the AI company that hired an AI you know that company that hired an AI you know that company that hired an AI you know that basically fired you know it basically basically fired you know it basically basically fired you know it basically had the AI fire the other AI because had the AI fire the other AI because had the AI fire the other AI because they didn't like it and I was like well they didn't like it and I was like well they didn't like it and I was like well but the reality is they just canceled but the reality is they just canceled but the reality is they just canceled the program but it makes great press you the program but it makes great press you the program but it makes great press you know that like AI is now you know know that like AI is now you know know that like AI is now you know cancelling other AI it just you know cancelling other AI it just you know cancelling other AI it just you know some of it's silly some of it's silly some of it's silly >> and it gets great headlines But, you >> and it gets great headlines But, you >> and it gets great headlines But, you know, you just got to kind of take it know, you just got to kind of take it know, you just got to kind of take it with tongue and cheek on some of that with tongue and cheek on some of that with tongue and cheek on some of that stuff.

stuff. stuff. >> I mean, you you still need humans, >> I mean, you you still need humans, >> I mean, you you still need humans, right? For for your business to be right? For for your business to be right? For for your business to be successful, you still need humans to successful, you still need humans to successful, you still need humans to purchase. purchase. purchase. >> You know, at the end of the day, it's >> You know, at the end of the day, it's >> You know, at the end of the day, it's it's kind of when you when you look at it's kind of when you when you look at it's kind of when you when you look at an engagement, you may, you know, a an engagement, you may, you know, a an engagement, you may, you know, a couple years ago, you come in and you couple years ago, you come in and you couple years ago, you come in and you say, "Oh, well, there's there's 15 say, "Oh, well, there's there's 15 say, "Oh, well, there's there's 15 people for a project." You used to have people for a project." You used to have people for a project." You used to have a project manager, a business analyst, a a project manager, a business analyst, a a project manager, a business analyst, a designer, a developer, and so forth. Now designer, a developer, and so forth. Now designer, a developer, and so forth. Now you come in and you say, "Well, I'm you come in and you say, "Well, I'm you come in and you say, "Well, I'm going to have somebody here that really going to have somebody here that really going to have somebody here that really understands AI and come in with three or understands AI and come in with three or understands AI and come in with three or four people." So it just means from a four people." So it just means from a four people." So it just means from a business perspective that you're business perspective that you're business perspective that you're reducing cost, but somebody's still reducing cost, but somebody's still reducing cost, but somebody's still driving that project. At the end of the driving that project. At the end of the driving that project. At the end of the day, you're still on the hook for that day, you're still on the hook for that day, you're still on the hook for that project. So whether you have a project. So whether you have a project. So whether you have a fractional person, you have a full-time fractional person, you have a full-time fractional person, you have a full-time person, at the end of the day, person, at the end of the day, person, at the end of the day, somebody's still on the hook because the somebody's still on the hook because the somebody's still on the hook because the CEO, especially in mid to larger CEO, especially in mid to larger CEO, especially in mid to larger organizations, they're going to need to organizations, they're going to need to organizations, they're going to need to point to somebody because they're not point to somebody because they're not point to somebody because they're not going to stand in a boardroom and say, going to stand in a boardroom and say, going to stand in a boardroom and say, "Well, it was the program's fault." "Well, it was the program's fault." "Well, it was the program's fault." >> You know, that's that's my that's my >> You know, that's that's my that's my >> You know, that's that's my that's my whole kind of issue with that model is whole kind of issue with that model is whole kind of issue with that model is that at the end of the day, someone has that at the end of the day, someone has that at the end of the day, someone has to be responsible for all that. Right. to be responsible for all that. Right. to be responsible for all that. Right. >> Exactly. and and and and yes, chat can >> Exactly. and and and and yes, chat can >> Exactly. and and and and yes, chat can give you great advice and and do a lot give you great advice and and do a lot give you great advice and and do a lot of the work for you, of the work for you, of the work for you, >> but really what you're doing at the end >> but really what you're doing at the end >> but really what you're doing at the end of the day is that person saying of the day is that person saying of the day is that person saying >> all of this is on my shoulders, right?

>> all of this is on my shoulders, right? >> all of this is on my shoulders, right? >> I mean, yes, I use AI to give me these >> I mean, yes, I use AI to give me these >> I mean, yes, I use AI to give me these these um financials or whatever, these um financials or whatever, these um financials or whatever, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> But if that is incorrect and you file >> But if that is incorrect and you file >> But if that is incorrect and you file wrong with the tax, whatever, wrong with the tax, whatever, wrong with the tax, whatever, >> that's still on you. >> that's still on you. >> that's still on you. >> The government's not going to go after >> The government's not going to go after >> The government's not going to go after your chat agent because get filled as your chat agent because get filled as your chat agent because get filled as your CFO. That's that's on you. your CFO. That's that's on you. your CFO. That's that's on you. >> Is that an actual law? I saw I saw that >> Is that an actual law? I saw I saw that >> Is that an actual law? I saw I saw that on online that it was that's like a on online that it was that's like a on online that it was that's like a machine can't can't be held legally machine can't can't be held legally machine can't can't be held legally responsible for the decision. responsible for the decision. responsible for the decision. >> Well, because a lot of it is also they >> Well, because a lot of it is also they >> Well, because a lot of it is also they they have controls of the lobbies and so they have controls of the lobbies and so they have controls of the lobbies and so yeah, I mean it's similar to some of the yeah, I mean it's similar to some of the yeah, I mean it's similar to some of the other things that have come out other things that have come out other things that have come out recently, but it's true on that uh recently, but it's true on that uh recently, but it's true on that uh perspective that yeah, you can't be you perspective that yeah, you can't be you perspective that yeah, you can't be you can't blame the system. It's also in the can't blame the system. It's also in the can't blame the system. It's also in the terms and conditions that nobody reads. terms and conditions that nobody reads. terms and conditions that nobody reads. They just click by and say, "Hey, I need They just click by and say, "Hey, I need They just click by and say, "Hey, I need my subscription." And [laughter] hey, my subscription." And [laughter] hey, my subscription." And [laughter] hey, we're all human. We're still we're all human. We're still we're all human. We're still responsible. responsible. responsible. >> If there's an easy button, we're going >> If there's an easy button, we're going >> If there's an easy button, we're going to try to hit it every email whoever's to try to hit it every email whoever's to try to hit it every email whoever's email is behind that. Right. email is behind that. Right. email is behind that. Right. >> Right. But you're right. I mean, at the >> Right. But you're right. I mean, at the >> Right. But you're right. I mean, at the end of the day, it's going to be who who end of the day, it's going to be who who end of the day, it's going to be who who is behind that conversation, they're is behind that conversation, they're is behind that conversation, they're going to be responsible for the work.

going to be responsible for the work. going to be responsible for the work. So, at the end of the day, if somebody So, at the end of the day, if somebody So, at the end of the day, if somebody says, "Hey, I can do this quicker, says, "Hey, I can do this quicker, says, "Hey, I can do this quicker, faster, you know, I'm going to have an faster, you know, I'm going to have an faster, you know, I'm going to have an agent do this. I'm going to have my agent do this. I'm going to have my agent do this. I'm going to have my developer. I I don't need a developer developer. I I don't need a developer developer. I I don't need a developer for this. I'm gonna use AI for this. for this. I'm gonna use AI for this. for this. I'm gonna use AI for this. Great. Go for it. Um but at the end of Great. Go for it. Um but at the end of Great. Go for it. Um but at the end of the day, you still are the founder. the day, you still are the founder. the day, you still are the founder. You're the creator of that company. You're the creator of that company. You're the creator of that company. You're the creator of that, you know, You're the creator of that, you know, You're the creator of that, you know, concept. That's on your shoulders. So, concept. That's on your shoulders. So, concept. That's on your shoulders. So, if it saves you time, you just have to if it saves you time, you just have to if it saves you time, you just have to realize you're the owner of that. You realize you're the owner of that. You realize you're the owner of that. You have to be have to be have to be >> So, as a founder, you honestly, you own >> So, as a founder, you honestly, you own >> So, as a founder, you honestly, you own everything. everything. everything. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> You know, and and you know, usually it's >> You know, and and you know, usually it's >> You know, and and you know, usually it's a profits last, you know, you own a profits last, you know, you own a profits last, you know, you own everything. everything. everything. >> All the problems, everything. >> All the problems, everything. >> All the problems, everything. >> Correct. you know, and it seems really I >> Correct. you know, and it seems really I >> Correct. you know, and it seems really I can see the allure of dumping everything can see the allure of dumping everything can see the allure of dumping everything to to an agent and say, "Hey, yeah, to to an agent and say, "Hey, yeah, to to an agent and say, "Hey, yeah, >> I pay you 20 bucks a month and go do >> I pay you 20 bucks a month and go do >> I pay you 20 bucks a month and go do this for me and it'll be great, this for me and it'll be great, this for me and it'll be great, [laughter] you know, but [laughter] you know, but [laughter] you know, but >> but it's still yours. >> but it's still yours. >> but it's still yours. >> It's still yours. You're still in you're >> It's still yours. You're still in you're >> It's still yours. You're still in you're still responsible. You're still I mean, still responsible. You're still I mean, still responsible. You're still I mean, there's some division there, but at the there's some division there, but at the there's some division there, but at the end of the day, think of it as a tool. end of the day, think of it as a tool. end of the day, think of it as a tool. Um, just like you get into QuickBooks, Um, just like you get into QuickBooks, Um, just like you get into QuickBooks, you get into, you know, whatever you get into, you know, whatever you get into, you know, whatever accounting system you use, at the end of accounting system you use, at the end of accounting system you use, at the end of the day, it's still you're responsible the day, it's still you're responsible the day, it's still you're responsible for And don't get me wrong, I use it all for And don't get me wrong, I use it all for And don't get me wrong, I use it all the time to help me get started and then the time to help me get started and then the time to help me get started and then after that like after that like after that like >> yeah, we use it for processing, for >> yeah, we use it for processing, for >> yeah, we use it for processing, for development. I mean, it's a tool.

development. I mean, it's a tool. development. I mean, it's a tool. >> When you're when you're an expert at >> When you're when you're an expert at >> When you're when you're an expert at something, whatever it is, something, whatever it is, something, whatever it is, >> when you use that tool, you'll see right >> when you use that tool, you'll see right >> when you use that tool, you'll see right away the gaps where it's not as good as away the gaps where it's not as good as away the gaps where it's not as good as someone who's been doing this for years someone who's been doing this for years someone who's been doing this for years and years and years, you'll see it, you and years and years, you'll see it, you and years and years, you'll see it, you know, but if you have no experience in know, but if you have no experience in know, but if you have no experience in it, it, it, >> it's amazing because >> it's amazing because >> it's amazing because >> this is working. >> this is working. >> this is working. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. [laughter] >> It's ignorance is bliss in a way. >> It's ignorance is bliss in a way. >> It's ignorance is bliss in a way. Absolutely. Exactly. Absolutely. Exactly. Absolutely. Exactly. >> So, let's let's double click on >> So, let's let's double click on >> So, let's let's double click on fractional uh executives, right? And fractional uh executives, right? And fractional uh executives, right? And what and what that means um and how what and what that means um and how what and what that means um and how that's different from hiring a that's different from hiring a that's different from hiring a contractor. contractor. contractor. >> Um so, just >> Um so, just >> Um so, just >> Yeah, sure. I'll I'll start. So, you >> Yeah, sure. I'll I'll start. So, you >> Yeah, sure. I'll I'll start. So, you know, from a fractional perspective, I know, from a fractional perspective, I know, from a fractional perspective, I think you bring in expertise at a think you bring in expertise at a think you bring in expertise at a different level. So you may have held different level. So you may have held different level. So you may have held executive roles. You may have held you executive roles. You may have held you executive roles. You may have held you know different types of conversations know different types of conversations know different types of conversations that the founder may not always be that the founder may not always be that the founder may not always be available to. Um whereas a contractor available to. Um whereas a contractor available to. Um whereas a contractor contractor may be just tactical hired to contractor may be just tactical hired to contractor may be just tactical hired to bring in x amount of things that you bring in x amount of things that you bring in x amount of things that you need done and off they go. So really need done and off they go. So really need done and off they go. So really that's the key differentiator is that that's the key differentiator is that that's the key differentiator is that you know you bring in a lot of you know you bring in a lot of you know you bring in a lot of expertise. you've kind of positioned expertise. you've kind of positioned expertise. you've kind of positioned yourself as the expert in this space and yourself as the expert in this space and yourself as the expert in this space and you're working also you're bringing in a you're working also you're bringing in a you're working also you're bringing in a network of people that you know that can network of people that you know that can network of people that you know that can basically may not be available to just a basically may not be available to just a basically may not be available to just a general contractor because they're general contractor because they're general contractor because they're working as an individual. they're working as an individual. they're working as an individual. they're working as like okay you hired me to do working as like okay you hired me to do working as like okay you hired me to do this for these you know I don't have any this for these you know I don't have any this for these you know I don't have any responsibilities whereas the fractional responsibilities whereas the fractional responsibilities whereas the fractional may come in and they're actually going

may come in and they're actually going may come in and they're actually going to work with you at the beginning to work with you at the beginning to work with you at the beginning they're going to be hey I'm vested they're going to be hey I'm vested they're going to be hey I'm vested interest in this um I want you to interest in this um I want you to interest in this um I want you to succeed so I'm going to make sure I do succeed so I'm going to make sure I do succeed so I'm going to make sure I do everything I can to help bring that to everything I can to help bring that to everything I can to help bring that to success and those are kind of success and those are kind of success and those are kind of differences that I've seen um just in my differences that I've seen um just in my differences that I've seen um just in my interactions with different people and interactions with different people and interactions with different people and the way I the way I position myself as a the way I the way I position myself as a the way I the way I position myself as a fractional individual. fractional individual. fractional individual. >> Nice. >> Nice. >> Nice. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. For me consultants, it's it's >> Yeah. For me consultants, it's it's >> Yeah. For me consultants, it's it's difficult because their motivation is to difficult because their motivation is to difficult because their motivation is to complete the job complete the job complete the job >> to get paid and then they have more jobs >> to get paid and then they have more jobs >> to get paid and then they have more jobs to go to. And so it's it's in it's out, to go to. And so it's it's in it's out, to go to. And so it's it's in it's out, it's done it's done it's done >> where with a with with a partial, you >> where with a with with a partial, you >> where with a with with a partial, you know, know, know, seuite it I feel they're your success is seuite it I feel they're your success is seuite it I feel they're your success is their success, their success, their success, >> right? you know, if if they can grow >> right? you know, if if they can grow >> right? you know, if if they can grow your business, the idea is that their your business, the idea is that their your business, the idea is that their position in your company will grow too, position in your company will grow too, position in your company will grow too, you know. you know. you know. >> And to me, that makes that falls back to >> And to me, that makes that falls back to >> And to me, that makes that falls back to that sustainableness that, you know, you that sustainableness that, you know, you that sustainableness that, you know, you have to be trying to do something where have to be trying to do something where have to be trying to do something where >> not only are you able >> not only are you able >> not only are you able to get what you need to exist, but to get what you need to exist, but to get what you need to exist, but everyone who's helping you gets what everyone who's helping you gets what everyone who's helping you gets what they need to exist, too, you know, and they need to exist, too, you know, and they need to exist, too, you know, and and and you know, we don't build and and you know, we don't build and and you know, we don't build products for for machines. We build products for for machines. We build products for for machines. We build products for people. And and you know to products for people. And and you know to products for people. And and you know to me me me it's just kind of part of the social it's just kind of part of the social it's just kind of part of the social contract is is I you know contract is is I you know contract is is I you know >> for people buy people and and and money >> for people buy people and and and money >> for people buy people and and and money should be moving around between them not

should be moving around between them not should be moving around between them not all to one big huge corporation that all to one big huge corporation that all to one big huge corporation that runs an agent for everyone and you know runs an agent for everyone and you know runs an agent for everyone and you know >> right >> right >> right >> who knows where that goes. I mean, you >> who knows where that goes. I mean, you >> who knows where that goes. I mean, you know, for me, you know, I created know, for me, you know, I created know, for me, you know, I created Altalumo from the concept of I wanted I Altalumo from the concept of I wanted I Altalumo from the concept of I wanted I wanted to basically take my years of wanted to basically take my years of wanted to basically take my years of experience, you know, proving it out, experience, you know, proving it out, experience, you know, proving it out, you know, working, you know, in you know, working, you know, in you know, working, you know, in partnership with Iron Grove and other partnership with Iron Grove and other partnership with Iron Grove and other founders, you know, over the last couple founders, you know, over the last couple founders, you know, over the last couple of years, really kind of maturing that, of years, really kind of maturing that, of years, really kind of maturing that, you know, into a model that's you know, into a model that's you know, into a model that's sustainable, not only for myself, but sustainable, not only for myself, but sustainable, not only for myself, but for other companies. And that's really for other companies. And that's really for other companies. And that's really kind of kind of the background of, you kind of kind of the background of, you kind of kind of the background of, you know, like what is it? Why why' you know, like what is it? Why why' you know, like what is it? Why why' you create it? And really for me it was to create it? And really for me it was to create it? And really for me it was to kind of leverage all of my expertise but kind of leverage all of my expertise but kind of leverage all of my expertise but bring it to a different audience, a bring it to a different audience, a bring it to a different audience, a different customers. Um you know from different customers. Um you know from different customers. Um you know from the perspective of you see this a lot in the perspective of you see this a lot in the perspective of you see this a lot in enterprise and you see this a lot of you enterprise and you see this a lot of you enterprise and you see this a lot of you know very very established experts in know very very established experts in know very very established experts in that space but then none of them are that space but then none of them are that space but then none of them are kind of moving into you know at the very kind of moving into you know at the very kind of moving into you know at the very beginning where people are just starting beginning where people are just starting beginning where people are just starting out. you know, why not bring some of out. you know, why not bring some of out. you know, why not bring some of that expertise to people who really, you that expertise to people who really, you that expertise to people who really, you know, have great products and they're on know, have great products and they're on know, have great products and they're on the cusp of success and you can leverage the cusp of success and you can leverage the cusp of success and you can leverage all of the experience from enterprise all of the experience from enterprise all of the experience from enterprise from large corporations. you know, WZE from large corporations. you know, WZE from large corporations. you know, WZE has done this, you know, from data has done this, you know, from data has done this, you know, from data centers and all different kind of spaces centers and all different kind of spaces centers and all different kind of spaces and I've done this from, you know, and I've done this from, you know, and I've done this from, you know, software development and so forth. And software development and so forth. And software development and so forth. And so through all those partnerships, it's so through all those partnerships, it's so through all those partnerships, it's really kind of leveraging all of the really kind of leveraging all of the really kind of leveraging all of the experiences that we have from all of experiences that we have from all of experiences that we have from all of these large enterprise from, you know,

these large enterprise from, you know, these large enterprise from, you know, all these different all these different all these different >> and I've met a lot of great people >> and I've met a lot of great people >> and I've met a lot of great people through Kin and a lot of opportunities, through Kin and a lot of opportunities, through Kin and a lot of opportunities, right? right? right? >> You know, that we're working on >> You know, that we're working on >> You know, that we're working on together. together. together. >> Exactly. meeting other companies kind of >> Exactly. meeting other companies kind of >> Exactly. meeting other companies kind of in the same position looking for other in the same position looking for other in the same position looking for other opportunities to work with other opportunities to work with other opportunities to work with other companies to how how we can all help companies to how how we can all help companies to how how we can all help each other. each other. each other. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> And and like with all the people that >> And and like with all the people that >> And and like with all the people that are getting laid off, right? Like all are getting laid off, right? Like all are getting laid off, right? Like all the all the executives. the all the executives. the all the executives. >> It's a transition. It really is. And I >> It's a transition. It really is. And I >> It's a transition. It really is. And I think a lot of it, you know, I I think a lot of it, you know, I I think a lot of it, you know, I I [snorts] mean there's a drive in the [snorts] mean there's a drive in the [snorts] mean there's a drive in the market, you know, we've all kind of market, you know, we've all kind of market, you know, we've all kind of ridden through kind of the high times. ridden through kind of the high times. ridden through kind of the high times. You know, they say this is like a third You know, they say this is like a third You know, they say this is like a third revolution. They say, you know, AI and revolution. They say, you know, AI and revolution. They say, you know, AI and other things are driving this third other things are driving this third other things are driving this third revolution. We've had, you know, the revolution. We've had, you know, the revolution. We've had, you know, the dot. we've had, you know, the dot. we've had, you know, the dot. we've had, you know, the infrastructure changes in all of the infrastructure changes in all of the infrastructure changes in all of the different companies and now we're in different companies and now we're in different companies and now we're in this new phase. And so, you know, at the this new phase. And so, you know, at the this new phase. And so, you know, at the end of the day, you still want to be a end of the day, you still want to be a end of the day, you still want to be a part of that because I don't think, you part of that because I don't think, you part of that because I don't think, you know, at I mean, I like the technology. know, at I mean, I like the technology. know, at I mean, I like the technology. I like being involved in projects and I like being involved in projects and I like being involved in projects and things like that. I just I don't sit things like that. I just I don't sit things like that. I just I don't sit still. Uh, sorry. I just I just don't. still. Uh, sorry. I just I just don't. still. Uh, sorry. I just I just don't. >> That's probably why we get along. >> That's probably why we get along. >> That's probably why we get along. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, [laughter] I I'm you >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, [laughter] I I'm you >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, [laughter] I I'm you know, my family will tell me they're know, my family will tell me they're know, my family will tell me they're like, you know, when are you going to like, you know, when are you going to like, you know, when are you going to And it's like, yeah, I don't know. you And it's like, yeah, I don't know. you And it's like, yeah, I don't know. you know, I really enjoy this stuff.

know, I really enjoy this stuff. know, I really enjoy this stuff. >> Still building. >> Still building. >> Still building. >> Yeah. Still building and I still, you >> Yeah. Still building and I still, you >> Yeah. Still building and I still, you know, and so they're all in support of know, and so they're all in support of know, and so they're all in support of that and and they love it and they see that and and they love it and they see that and and they love it and they see and they tell me, you know, you're the and they tell me, you know, you're the and they tell me, you know, you're the happiest when you're doing this stuff. happiest when you're doing this stuff. happiest when you're doing this stuff. And so that's why I do it and it drives And so that's why I do it and it drives And so that's why I do it and it drives me because at the end of the day there's me because at the end of the day there's me because at the end of the day there's there's opportunities from working with, there's opportunities from working with, there's opportunities from working with, you know, like-minded people and you know, like-minded people and you know, like-minded people and projects that are really pushing us projects that are really pushing us projects that are really pushing us forward versus um, you know, hey, we forward versus um, you know, hey, we forward versus um, you know, hey, we need to deliver this and it's not really need to deliver this and it's not really need to deliver this and it's not really a project that you really want to be a a project that you really want to be a a project that you really want to be a part of. So, you know, in this mode, part of. So, you know, in this mode, part of. So, you know, in this mode, it's kind of you're selective of like, it's kind of you're selective of like, it's kind of you're selective of like, hey, I want to be a part of this. This hey, I want to be a part of this. This hey, I want to be a part of this. This is something that's of interest to me. is something that's of interest to me. is something that's of interest to me. And um yeah, that's that's kind of why I And um yeah, that's that's kind of why I And um yeah, that's that's kind of why I do it. So why I kind of formed the do it. So why I kind of formed the do it. So why I kind of formed the company myself. So company myself. So company myself. So >> yeah, it's like you're you're godp >> yeah, it's like you're you're godp >> yeah, it's like you're you're godp parent or godfathers in a way. parent or godfathers in a way. parent or godfathers in a way. >> You come in and you're like, "Hey, you >> You come in and you're like, "Hey, you >> You come in and you're like, "Hey, you need this. I wish [laughter] sprinkles need this. I wish [laughter] sprinkles need this. I wish [laughter] sprinkles of fairy dust." Well, maybe not of fairy dust." Well, maybe not of fairy dust." Well, maybe not everybody. everybody. everybody. Let's just one more question for each of Let's just one more question for each of Let's just one more question for each of you. you. you. >> Yeah. I mean, we have had unique >> Yeah. I mean, we have had unique >> Yeah. I mean, we have had unique [clears throat] projects. I mean that [clears throat] projects. I mean that [clears throat] projects. I mean that that is true. But yeah, I mean I don't that is true. But yeah, I mean I don't that is true. But yeah, I mean I don't know the Godfather. Yeah, probably. I know the Godfather. Yeah, probably. I know the Godfather. Yeah, probably. I wish I wish. Yeah, I [laughter] wish.

wish I wish. Yeah, I [laughter] wish. wish I wish. Yeah, I [laughter] wish. >> Well, like just in like just in like >> Well, like just in like just in like >> Well, like just in like just in like that overseeing way, you know, that it's that overseeing way, you know, that it's that overseeing way, you know, that it's like there's so much that you know that like there's so much that you know that like there's so much that you know that people have no clue and like with your people have no clue and like with your people have no clue and like with your experience and having been experience and having been experience and having been >> how how long have you been in the >> how how long have you been in the >> how how long have you been in the technology space building like technology space building like technology space building like >> 30 plus? Yeah. >> 30 plus? Yeah. >> 30 plus? Yeah. >> So, so what you've seen, right, the >> So, so what you've seen, right, the >> So, so what you've seen, right, the changes that you've seen in technology, changes that you've seen in technology, changes that you've seen in technology, how you've seen things burst and bubble how you've seen things burst and bubble how you've seen things burst and bubble and and and >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> come down. That's true. >> come down. That's true. >> come down. That's true. >> Rise again. >> Rise again. >> Rise again. >> Yeah. Well, I mean what we we wanted to >> Yeah. Well, I mean what we we wanted to >> Yeah. Well, I mean what we we wanted to like start game development and all like start game development and all like start game development and all that. That's I think when we were like that. That's I think when we were like that. That's I think when we were like much much younger much much younger much much younger >> when we met in college. That's what we >> when we met in college. That's what we >> when we met in college. That's what we we wanted to be [laughter] game we wanted to be [laughter] game we wanted to be [laughter] game developers and developers and developers and >> Oh, there's still time. >> Oh, there's still time. >> Oh, there's still time. >> Yeah. No, probably. Yeah. No, >> Yeah. No, probably. Yeah. No, >> Yeah. No, probably. Yeah. No, >> we know people. >> we know people. >> we know people. >> Yeah, [laughter] >> Yeah, [laughter] >> Yeah, [laughter] I'm sure. I'm sure we'll probably have I'm sure. I'm sure we'll probably have I'm sure. I'm sure we'll probably have conversations, but yeah, I think that conversations, but yeah, I think that conversations, but yeah, I think that >> that green screen room to use it. >> that green screen room to use it. >> that green screen room to use it. >> That's awesome. [laughter] >> That's awesome. [laughter] >> That's awesome. [laughter] >> But uh so WS uh you >> But uh so WS uh you >> But uh so WS uh you >> we play them enough. >> we play them enough. >> we play them enough. your philosophy uh that the people who your philosophy uh that the people who your philosophy uh that the people who build the techn the technology should build the techn the technology should build the techn the technology should remain accountable for it after launch.

remain accountable for it after launch. remain accountable for it after launch. Uh just tell us about that philosophy a Uh just tell us about that philosophy a Uh just tell us about that philosophy a little more. little more. little more. >> I don't know any other way to to do a >> I don't know any other way to to do a >> I don't know any other way to to do a good job on something you work on unless good job on something you work on unless good job on something you work on unless you care about it, you know, and and you care about it, you know, and and you care about it, you know, and and >> um >> um >> um >> for me that that accountability is key. >> for me that that accountability is key. >> for me that that accountability is key. It it I I It it I I It it I I >> it's so hard to work on something that >> it's so hard to work on something that >> it's so hard to work on something that you don't care about. I mean I mean go you don't care about. I mean I mean go you don't care about. I mean I mean go try it. Go try to move a big block, you try it. Go try to move a big block, you try it. Go try to move a big block, you know, big stack of bricks from one spot know, big stack of bricks from one spot know, big stack of bricks from one spot to another for no reason. You know, like to another for no reason. You know, like to another for no reason. You know, like you know, one of my favorite stories is you know, one of my favorite stories is you know, one of my favorite stories is a good friend of mine uh was working at a good friend of mine uh was working at a good friend of mine uh was working at a a grocery store and uh his shift a a grocery store and uh his shift a a grocery store and uh his shift starts in the morning and the manager starts in the morning and the manager starts in the morning and the manager comes out and says, "Hey, this whole comes out and says, "Hey, this whole comes out and says, "Hey, this whole stack of pumpkins, we don't want them stack of pumpkins, we don't want them stack of pumpkins, we don't want them here. We want them here." So it starts here. We want them here." So it starts here. We want them here." So it starts his shift. He moves them all over. his shift. He moves them all over. his shift. He moves them all over. >> Uhhuh. >> Uhhuh. >> Uhhuh. >> Midday, a new manager comes in. He's >> Midday, a new manager comes in. He's >> Midday, a new manager comes in. He's wrapping up and he's like, "What is wrapping up and he's like, "What is wrapping up and he's like, "What is this? [laughter] this? [laughter] this? [laughter] I need you to put it back." You know, I need you to put it back." You know, I need you to put it back." You know, and he quit his job, you know, because I and he quit his job, you know, because I and he quit his job, you know, because I mean, mean, mean, >> it's a lot of money.

>> it's a lot of money. >> it's a lot of money. >> It is it's a lot of work, but you know, >> It is it's a lot of work, but you know, >> It is it's a lot of work, but you know, it's it's hard. You have to be vested in it's it's hard. You have to be vested in it's it's hard. You have to be vested in the job you're doing or else it's it's the job you're doing or else it's it's the job you're doing or else it's it's so hard to keep going. So I don't know so hard to keep going. So I don't know so hard to keep going. So I don't know any way any other way any way any other way any way any other way >> to build something and do a good job >> to build something and do a good job >> to build something and do a good job unless you care about it, unless you care about it, unless you care about it, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> You know, >> You know, >> You know, >> right? Yeah. Just keep your nineto-5 in >> right? Yeah. Just keep your nineto-5 in >> right? Yeah. Just keep your nineto-5 in that case. that case. that case. >> Well, I mean it's >> Well, I mean it's >> Well, I mean it's >> Well, yeah. If if you don't want to care >> Well, yeah. If if you don't want to care >> Well, yeah. If if you don't want to care and you just want a paycheck. and you just want a paycheck. and you just want a paycheck. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Stick to the nineto five. >> Stick to the nineto five. >> Stick to the nineto five. >> That's fine. >> That's fine. >> That's fine. >> Yeah. and and you know and >> Yeah. and and you know and >> Yeah. and and you know and >> and be comfortable in this in the false >> and be comfortable in this in the false >> and be comfortable in this in the false security that that some company's going security that that some company's going security that that some company's going to keep paying you every week because to keep paying you every week because to keep paying you every week because you know you know you know >> that's mostly true unless they need to >> that's mostly true unless they need to >> that's mostly true unless they need to lay someone off and and lay someone off and and lay someone off and and >> right >> right >> right >> and if you're the right candidate you >> and if you're the right candidate you >> and if you're the right candidate you will be the first one to go and it's will be the first one to go and it's will be the first one to go and it's just how it is just how it is just how it is >> right but if but I think if you do not >> right but if but I think if you do not >> right but if but I think if you do not have that passion and that drive and have that passion and that drive and have that passion and that drive and that ability and that resilience right that ability and that resilience right that ability and that resilience right you won't make it you know as a founder you won't make it you know as a founder you won't make it you know as a founder like like like I don't mean to sound I don't mean to sound I don't mean to sound is not for you because because yeah, is not for you because because yeah, is not for you because because yeah, every day is hard, right? Exactly. every day is hard, right? Exactly. every day is hard, right? Exactly. >> You know, and you have to remember why >> You know, and you have to remember why >> You know, and you have to remember why you're doing it, you're doing it, you're doing it, >> right?

>> right? >> right? >> And you have to keep doing it, you know. >> And you have to keep doing it, you know. >> And you have to keep doing it, you know. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. >> And as it gets harder, you know, >> And as it gets harder, you know, >> And as it gets harder, you know, >> people who started the journey with you >> people who started the journey with you >> people who started the journey with you may not have the same level of may not have the same level of may not have the same level of commitment and resilience commitment and resilience commitment and resilience >> and that's something that you have to >> and that's something that you have to >> and that's something that you have to come to grips with too as you go. But come to grips with too as you go. But come to grips with too as you go. But the other side of that coin is you make the other side of that coin is you make the other side of that coin is you make other friends, other partnersh other friends, other partnersh other friends, other partnersh >> and to me work's a whole lot easier when >> and to me work's a whole lot easier when >> and to me work's a whole lot easier when you enjoy who you work with. So that's you enjoy who you work with. So that's you enjoy who you work with. So that's that's a real key for me is that that's a real key for me is that that's a real key for me is that >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> you know, not only the project that they >> you know, not only the project that they >> you know, not only the project that they bring, but you know, is the energy bring, but you know, is the energy bring, but you know, is the energy right? You know, like and I know that right? You know, like and I know that right? You know, like and I know that sounds new age today, but it really is. sounds new age today, but it really is. sounds new age today, but it really is. It isn't. It's like It isn't. It's like It isn't. It's like can we work together because it's a can we work together because it's a can we work together because it's a relationship, relationship, relationship, >> right? Because at the end of the day >> right? Because at the end of the day >> right? Because at the end of the day when the technology is like okay you when the technology is like okay you when the technology is like okay you know you you've solved all the tech know you you've solved all the tech know you you've solved all the tech problems at some point and I've been on problems at some point and I've been on problems at some point and I've been on projects where it's like they call it projects where it's like they call it projects where it's like they call it follow the sun you know 247 you follow follow the sun you know 247 you follow follow the sun you know 247 you follow it and you finish it and there's always it and you finish it and there's always it and you finish it and there's always somebody every 8 hours or whatever but somebody every 8 hours or whatever but somebody every 8 hours or whatever but my point is is that if you're not really my point is is that if you're not really my point is is that if you're not really like when said if you're not really like when said if you're not really like when said if you're not really comfortable with those people you know comfortable with those people you know comfortable with those people you know at some point you know your emotions are at some point you know your emotions are at some point you know your emotions are going to come out and and people's going to come out and and people's going to come out and and people's tempers are going to come out and and if tempers are going to come out and and if tempers are going to come out and and if you're not really connected with them you're not really connected with them you're not really connected with them and you don't really have a good balance and you don't really have a good balance and you don't really have a good balance of like okay hey um and not able to of like okay hey um and not able to of like okay hey um and not able to understand those emotions of like why am understand those emotions of like why am understand those emotions of like why am I feeling like this you know that you I feeling like this you know that you I feeling like this you know that you have to be comfortable with that because have to be comfortable with that because have to be comfortable with that because at the end of the day you bring that to at the end of the day you bring that to at the end of the day you bring that to work and if you're not able to work with

work and if you're not able to work with work and if you're not able to work with the people that you really want to work the people that you really want to work the people that you really want to work with you know cuz like it is a hard with you know cuz like it is a hard with you know cuz like it is a hard thing to do to run your own companies thing to do to run your own companies thing to do to run your own companies and to go out and find your own clients and to go out and find your own clients and to go out and find your own clients and all of those things but you have to and all of those things but you have to and all of those things but you have to be in kind of your emotions in check and be in kind of your emotions in check and be in kind of your emotions in check and all that kind of stuff to be able to all that kind of stuff to be able to all that kind of stuff to be able to deal with everything else and be able to deal with everything else and be able to deal with everything else and be able to keep that energy level going because keep that energy level going because keep that energy level going because some days are good and some days are low some days are good and some days are low some days are good and some days are low and and and >> that's where having a team really helps >> that's where having a team really helps >> that's where having a team really helps you on my mind. You're read my mind. you on my mind. You're read my mind. you on my mind. You're read my mind. >> Absolutely. Right. And and building that >> Absolutely. Right. And and building that >> Absolutely. Right. And and building that trust, right? And having that trust, right? And having that trust, right? And having that conversation, but conversation, but conversation, but >> panning things off. >> panning things off. >> panning things off. >> But again, you you can't do that if you >> But again, you you can't do that if you >> But again, you you can't do that if you don't talk to other humans. don't talk to other humans. don't talk to other humans. >> Exactly. Right. >> Exactly. Right. >> Exactly. Right. >> We appreciate our tools. We appreciate >> We appreciate our tools. We appreciate >> We appreciate our tools. We appreciate our generative AI and everything that's our generative AI and everything that's our generative AI and everything that's out there. But to scale and grow a out there. But to scale and grow a out there. But to scale and grow a business, you still need to sell to business, you still need to sell to business, you still need to sell to humans, right? You can't you can't sell humans, right? You can't you can't sell humans, right? You can't you can't sell it to AI, it to AI, it to AI, >> right? Maybe [laughter] >> right? Maybe [laughter] >> right? Maybe [laughter] they're trying. they're trying. they're trying. >> They're trying, but honestly, somebody's >> They're trying, but honestly, somebody's >> They're trying, but honestly, somebody's getting a check from that, you know, on getting a check from that, you know, on getting a check from that, you know, on the other side. the other side. the other side. >> Someone's pumping the money. There's >> Someone's pumping the money. There's >> Someone's pumping the money. There's money coming in and money coming out and money coming in and money coming out and money coming in and money coming out and somebody's actually cashing it. So, somebody's actually cashing it. So, somebody's actually cashing it. So, yeah, it's not the agent doing that. So, yeah, it's not the agent doing that. So, yeah, it's not the agent doing that. So, you know, you know, you know, >> it's some silly stuff going on, but >> it's some silly stuff going on, but >> it's some silly stuff going on, but really, it is true. At the end of the really, it is true. At the end of the really, it is true. At the end of the day, it is the human element and that's day, it is the human element and that's day, it is the human element and that's what that's what you know I wake up what that's what you know I wake up what that's what you know I wake up every morning going [snorts] yeah it's every morning going [snorts] yeah it's every morning going [snorts] yeah it's the people it's the connection it's you the people it's the connection it's you the people it's the connection it's you know who are you going to meet who are know who are you going to meet who are know who are you going to meet who are you going to talk to what projects you going to talk to what projects you going to talk to what projects technology it's always great and fun to technology it's always great and fun to technology it's always great and fun to get a part of and yeah that you get get a part of and yeah that you get get a part of and yeah that you get jazzed about all that stuff but at the jazzed about all that stuff but at the jazzed about all that stuff but at the end of the day you gota you know you got end of the day you gota you know you got end of the day you gota you know you got to talk to people and execute.

to talk to people and execute. to talk to people and execute. >> Yeah. Yeah. and yeah, double clicking on >> Yeah. Yeah. and yeah, double clicking on >> Yeah. Yeah. and yeah, double clicking on the on the team development, right? And the on the team development, right? And the on the team development, right? And just how just how just how >> how people are able to see the things >> how people are able to see the things >> how people are able to see the things that you have no idea about. that you have no idea about. that you have no idea about. >> Um, >> Um, >> Um, >> but also cheer you on and how it makes >> but also cheer you on and how it makes >> but also cheer you on and how it makes it easier to get up. it easier to get up. it easier to get up. >> Exactly. Absolutely. >> Exactly. Absolutely. >> Exactly. Absolutely. >> Some days because you're like, "Oh, >> Some days because you're like, "Oh, >> Some days because you're like, "Oh, yeah. He they're doing this and she's yeah. He they're doing this and she's yeah. He they're doing this and she's got this and and then you're growing and got this and and then you're growing and got this and and then you're growing and then you're developing those then you're developing those then you're developing those relationships and like the magic and relationships and like the magic and relationships and like the magic and synchronicity that happens with like synchronicity that happens with like synchronicity that happens with like >> people knowing people, right? and coming >> people knowing people, right? and coming >> people knowing people, right? and coming together in the same space with a together in the same space with a together in the same space with a vision, right? And so so definitely vision, right? And so so definitely vision, right? And so so definitely >> for founders again when I when I'm >> for founders again when I when I'm >> for founders again when I when I'm having conversations, they're like, you having conversations, they're like, you having conversations, they're like, you don't you don't know where you're going. don't you don't know where you're going. don't you don't know where you're going. Like you don't know your vision. You Like you don't know your vision. You Like you don't know your vision. You don't know where you're don't know where you're don't know where you're >> where you're scaling. >> where you're scaling. >> where you're scaling. >> That's where we come in and we go, hey, >> That's where we come in and we go, hey, >> That's where we come in and we go, hey, >> why are you doing this? First of all, >> why are you doing this? First of all, >> why are you doing this? First of all, >> that's when Rosa goes, have you met Ken? >> that's when Rosa goes, have you met Ken? >> that's when Rosa goes, have you met Ken? Have you met WZ? Let me tell you, these Have you met WZ? Let me tell you, these Have you met WZ? Let me tell you, these guys can help you figure it out. guys can help you figure it out. guys can help you figure it out. [laughter] It's hard because you know [laughter] It's hard because you know [laughter] It's hard because you know we've been taught since we were little we've been taught since we were little we've been taught since we were little build it and they will come you know and build it and they will come you know and build it and they will come you know and >> I don't I don't know if that's quite >> I don't I don't know if that's quite >> I don't I don't know if that's quite true you know I feel like build it then true you know I feel like build it then true you know I feel like build it then you got to market it [laughter] you know you got to market it [laughter] you know you got to market it [laughter] you know and then you know and then you know and then you know >> you got to bring people to the party >> you got to bring people to the party >> you got to bring people to the party >> you can't keep yourself a secret you >> you can't keep yourself a secret you >> you can't keep yourself a secret you know know know >> right >> right >> right >> and and a lot of people >> and and a lot of people >> and and a lot of people you know that humility you know that humility you know that humility is counterproductive if you're trying to is counterproductive if you're trying to is counterproductive if you're trying to get your part your your product out you get your part your your product out you get your part your your product out you know you have to go if you don't believe know you have to go if you don't believe know you have to go if you don't believe in your own product who's going to in your own product who's going to in your own product who's going to believe in your product right you Right.

believe in your product right you Right. believe in your product right you Right. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. Cuz I mean for some people, you >> Yeah. Cuz I mean for some people, you >> Yeah. Cuz I mean for some people, you know, I've met founders that, you know, know, I've met founders that, you know, know, I've met founders that, you know, they are the product, you know, and and they are the product, you know, and and they are the product, you know, and and with their skills and their with their skills and their with their skills and their capabilities, you know, we met, you capabilities, you know, we met, you capabilities, you know, we met, you know, amazing individual that, you know, know, amazing individual that, you know, know, amazing individual that, you know, he does AI and some other stuff and, you he does AI and some other stuff and, you he does AI and some other stuff and, you know, he is that, you know, cuz you know, he is that, you know, cuz you know, he is that, you know, cuz you could say, well, somebody else will come could say, well, somebody else will come could say, well, somebody else will come in and do that, but that individual is, in and do that, but that individual is, in and do that, but that individual is, and that's kind of one of the things and that's kind of one of the things and that's kind of one of the things that I would say is, you know, it's that I would say is, you know, it's that I would say is, you know, it's still the human element. if you're a still the human element. if you're a still the human element. if you're a founder, if you're a creator, it's, you founder, if you're a creator, it's, you founder, if you're a creator, it's, you know, it's the human part of it. Um, at know, it's the human part of it. Um, at know, it's the human part of it. Um, at the end of the day, because that's what the end of the day, because that's what the end of the day, because that's what represents everything. So, represents everything. So, represents everything. So, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> at least that's my part. >> at least that's my part. >> at least that's my part. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, we're almost out of time. Um, just >> Well, we're almost out of time. Um, just >> Well, we're almost out of time. Um, just one more question for both of you. Where one more question for both of you. Where one more question for both of you. Where do you where do you see yourself in like do you where do you see yourself in like do you where do you see yourself in like five years? Like, where do you see Alumo five years? Like, where do you see Alumo five years? Like, where do you see Alumo and Iron Grove and any of the projects and Iron Grove and any of the projects and Iron Grove and any of the projects that that you're working on or that that you're working on or that that you're working on or >> Yeah. Um so for for Altalumo I think uh >> Yeah. Um so for for Altalumo I think uh >> Yeah. Um so for for Altalumo I think uh continuing to to grow it as a as an continuing to to grow it as a as an continuing to to grow it as a as an organization organization organization um and really kind of helping you know um and really kind of helping you know um and really kind of helping you know founders you know mature and get to the founders you know mature and get to the founders you know mature and get to the levels that you know are like Iron Grove levels that you know are like Iron Grove levels that you know are like Iron Grove and others that I'm working with is and others that I'm working with is and others that I'm working with is really you know continuing that that really you know continuing that that really you know continuing that that success not only for them but also for success not only for them but also for success not only for them but also for myself to really kind of you know market myself to really kind of you know market myself to really kind of you know market myself out there uh continue to build myself out there uh continue to build myself out there uh continue to build the organization that that's really what the organization that that's really what the organization that that's really what I see is you know in five years looking I see is you know in five years looking I see is you know in five years looking back um you know right now it's you know back um you know right now it's you know back um you know right now it's you know it's a small organization and you know a

it's a small organization and you know a it's a small organization and you know a lot of it is you know you know myself lot of it is you know you know myself lot of it is you know you know myself and others you know very very fractional and others you know very very fractional and others you know very very fractional um as I start to grow but that's kind of um as I start to grow but that's kind of um as I start to grow but that's kind of what I see is that you know I'm kind of what I see is that you know I'm kind of what I see is that you know I'm kind of building it and then kind of you know it building it and then kind of you know it building it and then kind of you know it it kind of is starting to kind of mature it kind of is starting to kind of mature it kind of is starting to kind of mature and grow and people start to go okay and grow and people start to go okay and grow and people start to go okay yeah this is this is how I connect to yeah this is this is how I connect to yeah this is this is how I connect to them and this is the part so yeah just them and this is the part so yeah just them and this is the part so yeah just growth That's what I would say in five growth That's what I would say in five growth That's what I would say in five years. years. years. >> For me, what I'd love to see Iron Grove >> For me, what I'd love to see Iron Grove >> For me, what I'd love to see Iron Grove in five years is is really being the in five years is is really being the in five years is is really being the infrastructure company behind of several infrastructure company behind of several infrastructure company behind of several really successful really successful really successful companies. You know, I I've always been companies. You know, I I've always been companies. You know, I I've always been in the infrastructure side, in the cost in the infrastructure side, in the cost in the infrastructure side, in the cost center side of things, center side of things, center side of things, >> supporting the product. >> supporting the product. >> supporting the product. >> And now that we have our own product, >> And now that we have our own product, >> And now that we have our own product, >> that really hasn't changed. I still are >> that really hasn't changed. I still are >> that really hasn't changed. I still are just looking for applications to just looking for applications to just looking for applications to support. support. support. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Businesses to support and and but now >> Businesses to support and and but now >> Businesses to support and and but now >> in a much more connected way their >> in a much more connected way their >> in a much more connected way their success is our success success is our success success is our success >> and that's to me that's what I want to >> and that's to me that's what I want to >> and that's to me that's what I want to see. I would like to see us all see. I would like to see us all see. I would like to see us all successful in five years pushing a lot successful in five years pushing a lot successful in five years pushing a lot of traffic through our platform meaning of traffic through our platform meaning of traffic through our platform meaning we have clients that are we have clients that are we have clients that are >> taking in a lot of traffic etc. and then >> taking in a lot of traffic etc. and then >> taking in a lot of traffic etc. and then figuring out how to make products out of figuring out how to make products out of figuring out how to make products out of that. You know, you know, we're that. You know, you know, we're that. You know, you know, we're >> we're always learning about things >> we're always learning about things >> we're always learning about things either our clients or what they want or either our clients or what they want or either our clients or what they want or and taking that data and figure out how and taking that data and figure out how and taking that data and figure out how to serve those clients better, you know, to serve those clients better, you know, to serve those clients better, you know, that's that's all we do, that's that's all we do, that's that's all we do, >> you know.

>> you know. >> you know. >> Awesome. Awesome. Well, thank you both >> Awesome. Awesome. Well, thank you both >> Awesome. Awesome. Well, thank you both so much. so much. so much. >> Thanks for having us. >> Thanks for having us. >> Thanks for having us. >> Yeah. Thank you for having us. We >> Yeah. Thank you for having us. We >> Yeah. Thank you for having us. We appreciate it. appreciate it. appreciate it. >> Any any last words or last thoughts to >> Any any last words or last thoughts to >> Any any last words or last thoughts to >> uh No. >> uh No. >> uh No. >> Anybody? >> Anybody? >> Anybody? >> No, [laughter] I don't think so. Uh, >> No, [laughter] I don't think so. Uh, >> No, [laughter] I don't think so. Uh, >> no. >> no. >> no. >> Happy to pitch in for Ben while he's >> Happy to pitch in for Ben while he's >> Happy to pitch in for Ben while he's out. You know, out. You know, out. You know, >> we hope you feel better, Ben. Uh, no, we >> we hope you feel better, Ben. Uh, no, we >> we hope you feel better, Ben. Uh, no, we missed you. missed you. missed you. >> Yeah, we did miss you. But, um, no, we >> Yeah, we did miss you. But, um, no, we >> Yeah, we did miss you. But, um, no, we just want to say uh thank you for the just want to say uh thank you for the just want to say uh thank you for the opportunity to kind of uh be here and opportunity to kind of uh be here and opportunity to kind of uh be here and support the ecosystem and support kind support the ecosystem and support kind support the ecosystem and support kind of what you and Creattopia are doing. of what you and Creattopia are doing. of what you and Creattopia are doing. So, we really appreciate it and glad to So, we really appreciate it and glad to So, we really appreciate it and glad to be partners be partners be partners >> and really excited about y'all success, >> and really excited about y'all success, >> and really excited about y'all success, too, and happy to help. And this is too, and happy to help. And this is too, and happy to help. And this is really what it's all about, right? really what it's all about, right? really what it's all about, right? Exactly. It really is. And it kind of Exactly. It really is. And it kind of Exactly. It really is. And it kind of proves everything that we've been proves everything that we've been proves everything that we've been talking about and seeing the you know talking about and seeing the you know talking about and seeing the you know kind of the for me it's it's seeing the kind of the for me it's it's seeing the kind of the for me it's it's seeing the end result. There's a lot of things that end result. There's a lot of things that end result. There's a lot of things that happen behind the scenes but it's the happen behind the scenes but it's the happen behind the scenes but it's the the end result is really what helps us the end result is really what helps us the end result is really what helps us to see okay it's really working. It's to see okay it's really working. It's to see okay it's really working. It's you know when you see that just like a you know when you see that just like a you know when you see that just like a product when it's live and people are on product when it's live and people are on product when it's live and people are on it uh to me that's that's like all right it uh to me that's that's like all right it uh to me that's that's like all right that's success that's success that's success >> right? What's that quote? The the fruit.

>> right? What's that quote? The the fruit. >> right? What's that quote? The the fruit. >> Go live day is always go [laughter] live >> Go live day is always go [laughter] live >> Go live day is always go [laughter] live is always fun. is always fun. is always fun. >> It really is. >> It really is. >> It really is. >> No matter how small a business it is, >> No matter how small a business it is, >> No matter how small a business it is, >> when you open the door and say we're >> when you open the door and say we're >> when you open the door and say we're open for business. open for business. open for business. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> it's an exciting time. So, you know >> it's an exciting time. So, you know >> it's an exciting time. So, you know what? I like that too a lot. [laughter] what? I like that too a lot. [laughter] what? I like that too a lot. [laughter] >> Awesome. Well, thank you again. Uh thank >> Awesome. Well, thank you again. Uh thank >> Awesome. Well, thank you again. Uh thank you to anybody that's watching online. you to anybody that's watching online. you to anybody that's watching online. Uh shout out to 801 Trev, the innovation Uh shout out to 801 Trev, the innovation Uh shout out to 801 Trev, the innovation hub. Um, and my co-founder behind the hub. Um, and my co-founder behind the hub. Um, and my co-founder behind the scenes over there for the technical scenes over there for the technical scenes over there for the technical support. Um, and thank you to anybody support. Um, and thank you to anybody support. Um, and thank you to anybody who was listening. Uh, we'll see you who was listening. Uh, we'll see you who was listening. Uh, we'll see you next week for our 10th show. next week for our 10th show. next week for our 10th show. >> So, thanks. >> So, thanks. >> So, thanks. >> Thanks. >> Thanks. >> Thanks. >> Bye. >> Bye. >> Bye. >> Bye.