EP26 Dig This!

hey everyone make sure to stay tuned at hey everyone make sure to stay tuned at the end of today's show for an important the end of today's show for an important the end of today's show for an important announcement one of the other big history podcasters one of the other big history podcasters that I stay in regular touch with and that I stay in regular touch with and that I stay in regular touch with and have known for years is the wonderful have known for years is the wonderful have known for years is the wonderful daniele belly host of the history on daniele belly host of the history on daniele belly host of the history on fire podcast which if you have not fire podcast which if you have not fire podcast which if you have not checked that out and you like my show checked that out and you like my show checked that out and you like my show you really ought to because you'll like you really ought to because you'll like you really ought to because you'll like that probably as well and for a while up that probably as well and for a while up that probably as well and for a while up until recently it was behind a paywall until recently it was behind a paywall until recently it was behind a paywall but now it is free for everyone just but now it is free for everyone just but now it is free for everyone just like my show is so go check that out if like my show is so go check that out if like my show is so go check that out if you haven't or if you haven't checked it you haven't or if you haven't checked it you haven't or if you haven't checked it out in a while there's going to be a out in a while there's going to be a out in a while there's going to be a whole bunch of new shows you haven't whole bunch of new shows you haven't whole bunch of new shows you haven't heard heard heard daniele is a university lecturer when daniele is a university lecturer when daniele is a university lecturer when he's not doing podcasts he has degrees he's not doing podcasts he has degrees he's not doing podcasts he has degrees in history anthropology Native American in history anthropology Native American in history anthropology Native American studies a subject on which he is an studies a subject on which he is an studies a subject on which he is an expert he's written four books the first expert he's written four books the first expert he's written four books the first one was published when he was only 22 so one was published when he was only 22 so one was published when he was only 22 so he's a very accomplished guy he's a very accomplished guy he's a very accomplished guy and we were talking the other day and I and we were talking the other day and I and we were talking the other day and I was working on ideas for a hardcore was working on ideas for a hardcore was working on ideas for a hardcore history addendum and he said you know we history addendum and he said you know we history addendum and he said you know we should talk about archeology should talk about archeology should talk about archeology now saying we should talk about now saying we should talk about now saying we should talk about archeology is a little like saying we archeology is a little like saying we archeology is a little like saying we should talk about history I mean it's a should talk about history I mean it's a should talk about history I mean it's a giant subject isn't it and neither one giant subject isn't it and neither one giant subject isn't it and neither one of us are archaeologists although he's of us are archaeologists although he's of us are archaeologists although he's more qualified to talk about it with his more qualified to talk about it with his more qualified to talk about it with his anthropology degree than I am but we're anthropology degree than I am but we're anthropology degree than I am but we're both kind of geeking out about it for a both kind of geeking out about it for a both kind of geeking out about it for a while and so we decided you know what while and so we decided you know what while and so we decided you know what we'll have this conversation and we'll we'll have this conversation and we'll we'll have this conversation and we'll just sort of talk a little bit about

just sort of talk a little bit about just sort of talk a little bit about you know our you know our you know our interesting stories or things that we interesting stories or things that we interesting stories or things that we would like to see or things from the would like to see or things from the would like to see or things from the past that you know would resonate maybe past that you know would resonate maybe past that you know would resonate maybe with the listeners and maybe talk about with the listeners and maybe talk about with the listeners and maybe talk about it in terms of you know I I proposed an it in terms of you know I I proposed an it in terms of you know I I proposed an Ebenezer Scrooge Christmas Carol kind of Ebenezer Scrooge Christmas Carol kind of Ebenezer Scrooge Christmas Carol kind of organization right the the ghost of organization right the the ghost of organization right the the ghost of archeology past the ghost of archeology archeology past the ghost of archeology archeology past the ghost of archeology present and the Ghost of archeology present and the Ghost of archeology present and the Ghost of archeology future sounds great in my head we'll see future sounds great in my head we'll see future sounds great in my head we'll see how it works out in practice in this how it works out in practice in this how it works out in practice in this discussion with the wonderful discussion with the wonderful discussion with the wonderful charismatic and intensely knowledgeable charismatic and intensely knowledgeable charismatic and intensely knowledgeable daniele host a history on fire all right with me right now my long-term all right with me right now my long-term friend Danielle to talk well like a friend Danielle to talk well like a friend Danielle to talk well like a couple of Geeks geeking out about couple of Geeks geeking out about couple of Geeks geeking out about archeology really and as I said I think archeology really and as I said I think archeology really and as I said I think what we'll do is organize this into sort what we'll do is organize this into sort what we'll do is organize this into sort of a ghost of archeology past ghost of of a ghost of archeology past ghost of of a ghost of archeology past ghost of archeology president ghost of archeology archeology president ghost of archeology archeology president ghost of archeology future and we'll leave those categories future and we'll leave those categories future and we'll leave those categories a little fungible we might be moving a little fungible we might be moving a little fungible we might be moving between them a little bit but let's between them a little bit but let's between them a little bit but let's start off with sort of the early things start off with sort of the early things start off with sort of the early things that you can find out there where early that you can find out there where early that you can find out there where early peoples showed an interest in their even peoples showed an interest in their even peoples showed an interest in their even earlier past I mean I always wondered earlier past I mean I always wondered earlier past I mean I always wondered how the ancient Egyptians thought about how the ancient Egyptians thought about how the ancient Egyptians thought about their ancient history or how what the their ancient history or how what the their ancient history or how what the ancient Chinese from the Shang Dynasty ancient Chinese from the Shang Dynasty ancient Chinese from the Shang Dynasty thought about history a thousand years thought about history a thousand years thought about history a thousand years before them or if they knew anything before them or if they knew anything before them or if they knew anything about it at all so I was doing a little about it at all so I was doing a little about it at all so I was doing a little research research research and I found some material that shows

and I found some material that shows and I found some material that shows that certain Kings or sons of Kings in that certain Kings or sons of Kings in that certain Kings or sons of Kings in places like Egypt and famously in in places like Egypt and famously in in places like Egypt and famously in in Babylon during the neo-babylonian empire Babylon during the neo-babylonian empire Babylon during the neo-babylonian empire about 550 BCE where they showed an about 550 BCE where they showed an about 550 BCE where they showed an interest in Empires that came before interest in Empires that came before interest in Empires that came before them so for example uh in Egypt they them so for example uh in Egypt they them so for example uh in Egypt they would often maintain temples and tomb would often maintain temples and tomb would often maintain temples and tomb sites uh sort of reverently and this was sites uh sort of reverently and this was sites uh sort of reverently and this was connected I think to the fact that the connected I think to the fact that the connected I think to the fact that the religion that was being worshiped was religion that was being worshiped was religion that was being worshiped was still viable and you'll often see that still viable and you'll often see that still viable and you'll often see that where sites will be protected and where sites will be protected and where sites will be protected and refurbished and sometimes if they've refurbished and sometimes if they've refurbished and sometimes if they've been robbed in Antiquity uh put back been robbed in Antiquity uh put back been robbed in Antiquity uh put back together again as long as the belief together again as long as the belief together again as long as the belief system holds but once the belief system system holds but once the belief system system holds but once the belief system is replaced by another belief system is replaced by another belief system is replaced by another belief system those things often became relics of the those things often became relics of the those things often became relics of the past that were either ignored or past that were either ignored or past that were either ignored or deliberately shunned I was reading that deliberately shunned I was reading that deliberately shunned I was reading that after Rome converted to Christianity after Rome converted to Christianity after Rome converted to Christianity some of the ancient temples from the some of the ancient temples from the some of the ancient temples from the polytheistic era were not just some polytheistic era were not just some polytheistic era were not just some sometimes they were just reused but sometimes they were just reused but sometimes they were just reused but other times they were actively avoided other times they were actively avoided other times they were actively avoided because it wasn't that the Christians because it wasn't that the Christians because it wasn't that the Christians didn't believe that the previous Gods didn't believe that the previous Gods didn't believe that the previous Gods existed they did believe they existed existed they did believe they existed existed they did believe they existed sometimes and thought they were demons sometimes and thought they were demons sometimes and thought they were demons and Devils so better to avoid those and Devils so better to avoid those and Devils so better to avoid those sights altogether sights altogether sights altogether um um um in some of these early attempts at what in some of these early attempts at what in some of these early attempts at what you might call proto-archeology too you might call proto-archeology too you might call proto-archeology too there was a vested interest the kings there was a vested interest the kings there was a vested interest the kings that were looking back like um nabanitis

that were looking back like um nabanitis that were looking back like um nabanitis looked back toward the Acadian Empire of looked back toward the Acadian Empire of looked back toward the Acadian Empire of naurum's sin for example which existed I naurum's sin for example which existed I naurum's sin for example which existed I believe more than the Millennia before believe more than the Millennia before believe more than the Millennia before he did but part of this rather than just he did but part of this rather than just he did but part of this rather than just trying to do what a modern-day trying to do what a modern-day trying to do what a modern-day archaeologist would do and try to archaeologist would do and try to archaeologist would do and try to reconstruct the past sometimes this was reconstruct the past sometimes this was reconstruct the past sometimes this was a part of establishing the Royal a part of establishing the Royal a part of establishing the Royal pedigree of some of these rulers right pedigree of some of these rulers right pedigree of some of these rulers right if you were if you were connected to if you were if you were connected to if you were if you were connected to this great king of the past it made you this great king of the past it made you this great king of the past it made you look like you were even more August and look like you were even more August and look like you were even more August and that your heritage was even more uh that your heritage was even more uh that your heritage was even more uh Royal so some of this stuff we would say Royal so some of this stuff we would say Royal so some of this stuff we would say today was perhaps had a vested interest today was perhaps had a vested interest today was perhaps had a vested interest for the rulers and stuff involved for the rulers and stuff involved for the rulers and stuff involved I mean That's a classic right you see it I mean That's a classic right you see it I mean That's a classic right you see it is a classic you're right in just about is a classic you're right in just about is a classic you're right in just about every culture there's that desire to every culture there's that desire to every culture there's that desire to connect yourself to some mythical past connect yourself to some mythical past connect yourself to some mythical past like for example in mesoamerica long like for example in mesoamerica long like for example in mesoamerica long after teotiwakan declined that the only after teotiwakan declined that the only after teotiwakan declined that the only memory is remained of the Splendor that memory is remained of the Splendor that memory is remained of the Splendor that have been to otiwakan just about every have been to otiwakan just about every have been to otiwakan just about every every other state that propped up in every other state that propped up in every other state that propped up in mesoamerica tried to connect themselves mesoamerica tried to connect themselves mesoamerica tried to connect themselves whether there was an actual connection whether there was an actual connection whether there was an actual connection or whether it was completely invented or whether it was completely invented or whether it was completely invented because it was a cool story and because it was a cool story and because it was a cool story and everybody likes to be connected to some everybody likes to be connected to some everybody likes to be connected to some cool mythology that that everyone else cool mythology that that everyone else cool mythology that that everyone else knows about knows about knows about I think it also bolsters your I think it also bolsters your I think it also bolsters your credentials to rule right and it wasn't credentials to rule right and it wasn't credentials to rule right and it wasn't just uh attaching yourself to earlier just uh attaching yourself to earlier just uh attaching yourself to earlier rulers I mean sometimes when you well rulers I mean sometimes when you well rulers I mean sometimes when you well oftentimes when you look at the invented oftentimes when you look at the invented oftentimes when you look at the invented lineage of some of these people lineage of some of these people lineage of some of these people sometimes going back you know 60 70 80 sometimes going back you know 60 70 80 sometimes going back you know 60 70 80 Generations eventually you find it going Generations eventually you find it going Generations eventually you find it going back to some deity somewhere so you know

back to some deity somewhere so you know back to some deity somewhere so you know you're you're descended from a God if you're you're descended from a God if you're you're descended from a God if you go back far enough right so who so you go back far enough right so who so you go back far enough right so who so who better to rule right that's that's who better to rule right that's that's who better to rule right that's that's what it always works that way that's what it always works that way that's what it always works that way that's what I love about uh invented what I love about uh invented what I love about uh invented genealogies or invented connection with genealogies or invented connection with genealogies or invented connection with the mythical past that while you know if the mythical past that while you know if the mythical past that while you know if you look at it Through The Eyes of a you look at it Through The Eyes of a you look at it Through The Eyes of a strict historians those would be strict historians those would be strict historians those would be considered lies there's something considered lies there's something considered lies there's something interesting about why those Lies come interesting about why those Lies come interesting about why those Lies come into being in the first place what does into being in the first place what does into being in the first place what does it say about the necessity to make those it say about the necessity to make those it say about the necessity to make those claims what does it say about the claims what does it say about the claims what does it say about the culture you know again even though they culture you know again even though they culture you know again even though they are too fully invented they may they may are too fully invented they may they may are too fully invented they may they may tell you a lot about a particular time tell you a lot about a particular time tell you a lot about a particular time and place and the culture of the people and place and the culture of the people and place and the culture of the people living in it living in it living in it I think it just tells us about human I think it just tells us about human I think it just tells us about human beings overall right what's in it for me beings overall right what's in it for me beings overall right what's in it for me what can I get from this archaeological what can I get from this archaeological what can I get from this archaeological Discovery right rather than the sort of Discovery right rather than the sort of Discovery right rather than the sort of amorphous idea of let me reconstruct the amorphous idea of let me reconstruct the amorphous idea of let me reconstruct the past so I better understood what came past so I better understood what came past so I better understood what came before me it's more how can before me it's more how can before me it's more how can reconstructions of the past benefit me reconstructions of the past benefit me reconstructions of the past benefit me so I mean you take a guy like uh so I mean you take a guy like uh so I mean you take a guy like uh Ramesses the second son who supposedly Ramesses the second son who supposedly Ramesses the second son who supposedly goes in and rediscovers uh temples and goes in and rediscovers uh temples and goes in and rediscovers uh temples and and cleans them out and fixes them up or and cleans them out and fixes them up or and cleans them out and fixes them up or tries to bolster up or restore pyramids tries to bolster up or restore pyramids tries to bolster up or restore pyramids that came from a long time before his that came from a long time before his that came from a long time before his lifespan well he may have been doing lifespan well he may have been doing lifespan well he may have been doing this for sort of generalized this for sort of generalized this for sort of generalized philosophical reasons but he's the kind philosophical reasons but he's the kind philosophical reasons but he's the kind of guy that stood personally to benefit of guy that stood personally to benefit of guy that stood personally to benefit from this I mean take a guy like from this I mean take a guy like from this I mean take a guy like nebonitis that we mentioned earlier nebonitis that we mentioned earlier nebonitis that we mentioned earlier right uh 550s BCE a neo-babylonian king

right uh 550s BCE a neo-babylonian king right uh 550s BCE a neo-babylonian king who stumbles upon what are ruins for him who stumbles upon what are ruins for him who stumbles upon what are ruins for him in 550s BCE finds some of the sites can in 550s BCE finds some of the sites can in 550s BCE finds some of the sites can connected to an ancient Acadian King connected to an ancient Acadian King connected to an ancient Acadian King named narum sin so he's from about the named narum sin so he's from about the named narum sin so he's from about the time where you have guys like Sargon of time where you have guys like Sargon of time where you have guys like Sargon of akkad some of the great first Empire akkad some of the great first Empire akkad some of the great first Empire Builders and nabanitis may be just Builders and nabanitis may be just Builders and nabanitis may be just generally interested in this stuff on generally interested in this stuff on generally interested in this stuff on the other hand if you connect yourself the other hand if you connect yourself the other hand if you connect yourself to some of the first great you know true to some of the first great you know true to some of the first great you know true Kings I think that's what Sargon means Kings I think that's what Sargon means Kings I think that's what Sargon means true Kings it benefits you personally true Kings it benefits you personally true Kings it benefits you personally he's supposed to have actually tried to he's supposed to have actually tried to he's supposed to have actually tried to date this stuff if you can imagine a guy date this stuff if you can imagine a guy date this stuff if you can imagine a guy in the 550s trying to date something in the 550s trying to date something in the 550s trying to date something from a thousand or fifteen hundred years from a thousand or fifteen hundred years from a thousand or fifteen hundred years before his time period sometimes people before his time period sometimes people before his time period sometimes people call him by the way the first call him by the way the first call him by the way the first archaeologist and they call Ramesses archaeologist and they call Ramesses archaeologist and they call Ramesses II's son sometimes the first II's son sometimes the first II's son sometimes the first egyptologist but you obviously have egyptologist but you obviously have egyptologist but you obviously have ruins and past histories the world over ruins and past histories the world over ruins and past histories the world over right so it's hardly just people from right so it's hardly just people from right so it's hardly just people from ancient Egypt or the ancient near East I ancient Egypt or the ancient near East I ancient Egypt or the ancient near East I mean the Chinese have a long uh and very mean the Chinese have a long uh and very mean the Chinese have a long uh and very deep history and they had people who deep history and they had people who deep history and they had people who were interested all during their history were interested all during their history were interested all during their history in studying their past but oftentimes in studying their past but oftentimes in studying their past but oftentimes for the same reasons right what can we for the same reasons right what can we for the same reasons right what can we get out of it can we find some artifacts get out of it can we find some artifacts get out of it can we find some artifacts can we find some hidden knowledge that can we find some hidden knowledge that can we find some hidden knowledge that we can use now uh every now and then we can use now uh every now and then we can use now uh every now and then though you find these people and I don't though you find these people and I don't though you find these people and I don't want to Tar them with the same brushes want to Tar them with the same brushes want to Tar them with the same brushes all these what's in it for me types who all these what's in it for me types who all these what's in it for me types who seem to maybe have a generalized seem to maybe have a generalized seem to maybe have a generalized interest in interest in interest in re-sort of re-sort of re-sort of connecting the world of the past so they connecting the world of the past so they connecting the world of the past so they understand it better and some of these

understand it better and some of these understand it better and some of these Chinese Scholars may have fallen into Chinese Scholars may have fallen into Chinese Scholars may have fallen into that category there's a famous that category there's a famous that category there's a famous medieval Indian scholar who may have medieval Indian scholar who may have medieval Indian scholar who may have written the first Indian history book written the first Indian history book written the first Indian history book a guy named kalhana I believe who may a guy named kalhana I believe who may a guy named kalhana I believe who may have been one of these people with a have been one of these people with a have been one of these people with a real you know sort of a general interest real you know sort of a general interest real you know sort of a general interest in history for history's sake rather in history for history's sake rather in history for history's sake rather than what's in it for me but of course than what's in it for me but of course than what's in it for me but of course it's the period when Europeans start it's the period when Europeans start it's the period when Europeans start dominating this whole thing that gets dominating this whole thing that gets dominating this whole thing that gets the Lion's Share of interest because the Lion's Share of interest because the Lion's Share of interest because they're so overwhelming in the 1700s and they're so overwhelming in the 1700s and they're so overwhelming in the 1700s and 1800s and I was reading in uh one of my 1800s and I was reading in uh one of my 1800s and I was reading in uh one of my books on the history of archeology and books on the history of archeology and books on the history of archeology and they were connecting this whole they were connecting this whole they were connecting this whole resurrection of interest in the past to resurrection of interest in the past to resurrection of interest in the past to the Renaissance where Europe first sort the Renaissance where Europe first sort the Renaissance where Europe first sort of rediscovers the classical of rediscovers the classical of rediscovers the classical civilizations of places like Greece and civilizations of places like Greece and civilizations of places like Greece and Rome Rome Rome and it's the era where the writings of and it's the era where the writings of and it's the era where the writings of Greece and Rome start influencing things Greece and Rome start influencing things Greece and Rome start influencing things and this becomes very important I mean and this becomes very important I mean and this becomes very important I mean Aristotle and Plato and all those guys Aristotle and Plato and all those guys Aristotle and Plato and all those guys are sort of rediscovered and Infused the are sort of rediscovered and Infused the are sort of rediscovered and Infused the Renaissance Era science and philosophy Renaissance Era science and philosophy Renaissance Era science and philosophy with a lot of the ancient classical with a lot of the ancient classical with a lot of the ancient classical values but it also means people start values but it also means people start values but it also means people start getting interested in ancient Greece and getting interested in ancient Greece and getting interested in ancient Greece and Rome again Rome again Rome again and just like the people in the past one and just like the people in the past one and just like the people in the past one of the things that they're most of the things that they're most of the things that they're most interested in rather than some interested in rather than some interested in rather than some generalized knowledge about what did the generalized knowledge about what did the generalized knowledge about what did the past look like and how can we better past look like and how can we better past look like and how can we better understand it is where are the artifacts understand it is where are the artifacts understand it is where are the artifacts right it's a it's a little like you know right it's a it's a little like you know right it's a it's a little like you know a giant treasure hunt right where can we a giant treasure hunt right where can we a giant treasure hunt right where can we get the stuff absolutely and I think

get the stuff absolutely and I think get the stuff absolutely and I think that's what the before there was an that's what the before there was an that's what the before there was an archeology that's what people were archeology that's what people were archeology that's what people were looking for they were looking for the looking for they were looking for the looking for they were looking for the shiny gold object that makes everybody shiny gold object that makes everybody shiny gold object that makes everybody go oh wow more than necessarily trying go oh wow more than necessarily trying go oh wow more than necessarily trying to reconstruct the past the car fully to reconstruct the past the car fully to reconstruct the past the car fully the way an archaeologist would do today the way an archaeologist would do today the way an archaeologist would do today and it's funny to me you know you and it's funny to me you know you and it's funny to me you know you mentioned the example of Rome it's funny mentioned the example of Rome it's funny mentioned the example of Rome it's funny how certain things that today we how certain things that today we how certain things that today we consider archaeological Treasures consider archaeological Treasures consider archaeological Treasures WordPress served for very different WordPress served for very different WordPress served for very different reasons and various points in their reasons and various points in their reasons and various points in their history like one thing I read at some history like one thing I read at some history like one thing I read at some point is that the Coliseum in Rome at a point is that the Coliseum in Rome at a point is that the Coliseum in Rome at a time when pretty much everything was time when pretty much everything was time when pretty much everything was torn down for building materials by torn down for building materials by torn down for building materials by later generations the Colosseum was later generations the Colosseum was later generations the Colosseum was preserved because some of the early preserved because some of the early preserved because some of the early Christians believe that many Christian Christians believe that many Christian Christians believe that many Christian Martyrs were killed in the Colosseum so Martyrs were killed in the Colosseum so Martyrs were killed in the Colosseum so that made it somewhat of a holy site in that made it somewhat of a holy site in that made it somewhat of a holy site in a way and so you wouldn't touch it now a way and so you wouldn't touch it now a way and so you wouldn't touch it now today we know that probably many of today we know that probably many of today we know that probably many of those massacres did not happen the way those massacres did not happen the way those massacres did not happen the way we think maybe they did happen on a much we think maybe they did happen on a much we think maybe they did happen on a much much smaller scale much smaller scale much smaller scale but people believe they happen and so but people believe they happen and so but people believe they happen and so Danny was like okay I used to be a pagan Danny was like okay I used to be a pagan Danny was like okay I used to be a pagan thing but it was made Holy by the blood thing but it was made Holy by the blood thing but it was made Holy by the blood of the markers so we need to preserve it of the markers so we need to preserve it of the markers so we need to preserve it fast forward another few generations and fast forward another few generations and fast forward another few generations and people don't necessarily believe that people don't necessarily believe that people don't necessarily believe that anymore but now they are interested in anymore but now they are interested in anymore but now they are interested in the Coliseum for its historical the Coliseum for its historical the Coliseum for its historical importance once the Roman Traditions are importance once the Roman Traditions are importance once the Roman Traditions are rediscovered and all of that so it's rediscovered and all of that so it's rediscovered and all of that so it's interesting out the same bunch of rocks interesting out the same bunch of rocks interesting out the same bunch of rocks can be perceived in such different ways

can be perceived in such different ways can be perceived in such different ways and this preserved for different reasons and this preserved for different reasons and this preserved for different reasons over the centuries over the centuries over the centuries well and you know what I'm fascinated by well and you know what I'm fascinated by well and you know what I'm fascinated by the amateur nature of a lot of the early the amateur nature of a lot of the early the amateur nature of a lot of the early archeology after the Renaissance period archeology after the Renaissance period archeology after the Renaissance period because when you read about a lot of because when you read about a lot of because when you read about a lot of these guys some of whom are not treasure these guys some of whom are not treasure these guys some of whom are not treasure Hunters we should say some of them are Hunters we should say some of them are Hunters we should say some of them are more hobbyists where they're you know more hobbyists where they're you know more hobbyists where they're you know diagramming and making sketches and diagramming and making sketches and diagramming and making sketches and stuff of the various uh things they stuff of the various uh things they stuff of the various uh things they found the megaliths or the great found the megaliths or the great found the megaliths or the great buildings or what have you but that buildings or what have you but that buildings or what have you but that quickly gets followed by the guys that I quickly gets followed by the guys that I quickly gets followed by the guys that I like to think of as the Indiana Jones like to think of as the Indiana Jones like to think of as the Indiana Jones version of archaeologists right the guys version of archaeologists right the guys version of archaeologists right the guys who are hired by Rich folks in places who are hired by Rich folks in places who are hired by Rich folks in places like Europe to go get them Antiques and like Europe to go get them Antiques and like Europe to go get them Antiques and artifacts and whatnot and I was reading artifacts and whatnot and I was reading artifacts and whatnot and I was reading one book because I pulled out one of one book because I pulled out one of one book because I pulled out one of these books I have on the history of these books I have on the history of these books I have on the history of archeology it's called uncovering the archeology it's called uncovering the archeology it's called uncovering the past a history of archeology by William past a history of archeology by William past a history of archeology by William H steaming Jr and he sort of goes over H steaming Jr and he sort of goes over H steaming Jr and he sort of goes over the history and talks about how the history and talks about how the history and talks about how um these early guys um these early guys um these early guys started when Napoleon invaded Egypt and started when Napoleon invaded Egypt and started when Napoleon invaded Egypt and you know there's that great line from you know there's that great line from you know there's that great line from Napoleon where he's addressing his Napoleon where he's addressing his Napoleon where he's addressing his troops right before they fight the troops right before they fight the troops right before they fight the mamluks in Egypt and he tells them mamluks in Egypt and he tells them mamluks in Egypt and he tells them soldiers 40 centuries of History are soldiers 40 centuries of History are soldiers 40 centuries of History are looking down on you because the pyramids looking down on you because the pyramids looking down on you because the pyramids are right there right are right there right are right there right um but what Napoleon did was he brought um but what Napoleon did was he brought um but what Napoleon did was he brought a lot of scientists with him and his a lot of scientists with him and his a lot of scientists with him and his army and while he's conquering Egypt and army and while he's conquering Egypt and army and while he's conquering Egypt and fighting in that part of the of the fighting in that part of the of the fighting in that part of the of the world these scientists are examining the

world these scientists are examining the world these scientists are examining the ruins of Egypt and it's part of what ruins of Egypt and it's part of what ruins of Egypt and it's part of what starts this real craze for Egyptian starts this real craze for Egyptian starts this real craze for Egyptian artifacts and everything connected with artifacts and everything connected with artifacts and everything connected with that and then what ends up happening of that and then what ends up happening of that and then what ends up happening of course is because he's fighting the course is because he's fighting the course is because he's fighting the British in that area there almost British in that area there almost British in that area there almost becomes a Scramble for who's going to becomes a Scramble for who's going to becomes a Scramble for who's going to get their hands on the Egyptian Antiques get their hands on the Egyptian Antiques get their hands on the Egyptian Antiques and they both you know it's funny and they both you know it's funny and they both you know it's funny because normally you would think they because normally you would think they because normally you would think they would go in there and rape and pillage would go in there and rape and pillage would go in there and rape and pillage the Antiques but because they're it's the Antiques but because they're it's the Antiques but because they're it's two European powers sort of vying for two European powers sort of vying for two European powers sort of vying for the antiques they would actually go to the antiques they would actually go to the antiques they would actually go to the authorities at that time the the authorities at that time the the authorities at that time the authorities were not Egyptian they were authorities were not Egyptian they were authorities were not Egyptian they were Turkish and they would they would try to Turkish and they would they would try to Turkish and they would they would try to seek the approval and get permits from seek the approval and get permits from seek the approval and get permits from the authorities so that they could use the authorities so that they could use the authorities so that they could use those permits against you know if there those permits against you know if there those permits against you know if there was the British they could use the was the British they could use the was the British they could use the permits against the French or vice versa permits against the French or vice versa permits against the French or vice versa and say you can't dig here we have the and say you can't dig here we have the and say you can't dig here we have the official you know signature which official you know signature which official you know signature which otherwise they probably wouldn't have otherwise they probably wouldn't have otherwise they probably wouldn't have cared about if there hadn't been another cared about if there hadn't been another cared about if there hadn't been another European power you know opposing them European power you know opposing them European power you know opposing them but this is where you start to see now but this is where you start to see now but this is where you start to see now very wealthy Europeans who want to hire very wealthy Europeans who want to hire very wealthy Europeans who want to hire individuals to go find them stuff that individuals to go find them stuff that individuals to go find them stuff that can be carted back to museums or even can be carted back to museums or even can be carted back to museums or even and I always find this interesting even and I always find this interesting even and I always find this interesting even to their personal property like a lot of to their personal property like a lot of to their personal property like a lot of statues and obelisks and things like statues and obelisks and things like statues and obelisks and things like that ended up as like backyard pieces in that ended up as like backyard pieces in that ended up as like backyard pieces in some englishman's Garden or something some englishman's Garden or something some englishman's Garden or something and and the guy who I always love from and and the guy who I always love from and and the guy who I always love from this time period if you can love this time period if you can love this time period if you can love somebody who destroys tons of things somebody who destroys tons of things somebody who destroys tons of things while he's looking for artifacts is the while he's looking for artifacts is the while he's looking for artifacts is the great Giovanni Belzoni and if if you go great Giovanni Belzoni and if if you go great Giovanni Belzoni and if if you go and you look at belzoni's stuff he's and you look at belzoni's stuff he's and you look at belzoni's stuff he's famous because he made sure he would be

famous because he made sure he would be famous because he made sure he would be remembered as the guy who let's call it remembered as the guy who let's call it remembered as the guy who let's call it rediscovered because tomb robbers found rediscovered because tomb robbers found rediscovered because tomb robbers found a lot of these places in Antiquity a lot of these places in Antiquity a lot of these places in Antiquity before he ever got to them but before he ever got to them but before he ever got to them but rediscovered a bunch of these tombs in rediscovered a bunch of these tombs in rediscovered a bunch of these tombs in the Valley of the Kings and stuff he the Valley of the Kings and stuff he the Valley of the Kings and stuff he would carve his name graffiti style and would carve his name graffiti style and would carve his name graffiti style and it's still there today into the walls as it's still there today into the walls as it's still there today into the walls as sort of a way to say his version of sort of a way to say his version of sort of a way to say his version of Kilroy was here right wow Giovanni was Kilroy was here right wow Giovanni was Kilroy was here right wow Giovanni was the artist that's that's your father of the artist that's that's your father of the artist that's that's your father of archeology that way that's hilarious archeology that way that's hilarious archeology that way that's hilarious well and remember he was to show you well and remember he was to show you well and remember he was to show you what an amateur this guy was he was a what an amateur this guy was he was a what an amateur this guy was he was a circus strong man six foot seven inch circus strong man six foot seven inch circus strong man six foot seven inch tall this massive guy tall this massive guy tall this massive guy and and he well I've got I actually uh and and he well I've got I actually uh and and he well I've got I actually uh wrote down or recorded one of the uh wrote down or recorded one of the uh wrote down or recorded one of the uh accounts where he wrote about one of accounts where he wrote about one of accounts where he wrote about one of these places that he was Excavating and these places that he was Excavating and these places that he was Excavating and in it's mentioned in the history of in it's mentioned in the history of in it's mentioned in the history of archeology book that I have and when you archeology book that I have and when you archeology book that I have and when you realize as many of us do today how realize as many of us do today how realize as many of us do today how painstaking modern archeology is and how painstaking modern archeology is and how painstaking modern archeology is and how many years archaeologists can spend many years archaeologists can spend many years archaeologists can spend working on just one Temple or one tomb working on just one Temple or one tomb working on just one Temple or one tomb or one dig listen to what it was like in or one dig listen to what it was like in or one dig listen to what it was like in like the wild west of the Indiana Jones like the wild west of the Indiana Jones like the wild west of the Indiana Jones era of discovering these places because era of discovering these places because era of discovering these places because here's what Belzoni writes about one of here's what Belzoni writes about one of here's what Belzoni writes about one of these I think it was a temple or a tomb these I think it was a temple or a tomb these I think it was a temple or a tomb or a mortuary that he that he broke into or a mortuary that he that he broke into or a mortuary that he that he broke into and starts telling you what it's like and starts telling you what it's like and starts telling you what it's like when he gets in there when he gets in there when he gets in there so so let me do the lead in that that uh so so let me do the lead in that that uh so so let me do the lead in that that uh William H steving gives and then I'll William H steving gives and then I'll William H steving gives and then I'll give you the Belzoni quote so Stephen give you the Belzoni quote so Stephen give you the Belzoni quote so Stephen says quote throughout his explorations

says quote throughout his explorations says quote throughout his explorations Belzoni continually looked for portable Belzoni continually looked for portable Belzoni continually looked for portable Antiquities and papyri that he could Antiquities and papyri that he could Antiquities and papyri that he could sell to the consul general or other sell to the consul general or other sell to the consul general or other European collectors he openly admitted European collectors he openly admitted European collectors he openly admitted that his purpose in entering ancient that his purpose in entering ancient that his purpose in entering ancient tombs was to quote Rob the Egyptians of tombs was to quote Rob the Egyptians of tombs was to quote Rob the Egyptians of their papyri end quote from belzoni's their papyri end quote from belzoni's their papyri end quote from belzoni's account of his experiences while account of his experiences while account of his experiences while exploring dark unventilated tomb exploring dark unventilated tomb exploring dark unventilated tomb passages and Chambers one can get an passages and Chambers one can get an passages and Chambers one can get an impression of the amount of Destruction impression of the amount of Destruction impression of the amount of Destruction that must have taken place during this that must have taken place during this that must have taken place during this era and now he quotes from belzoni's era and now he quotes from belzoni's era and now he quotes from belzoni's writing so listen to what You Know writing so listen to what You Know writing so listen to what You Know listen to the care that Belzoni took in listen to the care that Belzoni took in listen to the care that Belzoni took in in exploring these ancient places where in exploring these ancient places where in exploring these ancient places where he was often the first person to enter he was often the first person to enter he was often the first person to enter into these areas since maybe tomb into these areas since maybe tomb into these areas since maybe tomb robbers had been in there in the ancient robbers had been in there in the ancient robbers had been in there in the ancient world he writes quote this is from world he writes quote this is from world he writes quote this is from Belzoni Belzoni Belzoni after the exertion of entering into such after the exertion of entering into such after the exertion of entering into such a place through a passage of 50 100 300 a place through a passage of 50 100 300 a place through a passage of 50 100 300 or perhaps 600 yards nearly overcome I or perhaps 600 yards nearly overcome I or perhaps 600 yards nearly overcome I sought a resting place found one and sought a resting place found one and sought a resting place found one and contrived to sit but when my weight bore contrived to sit but when my weight bore contrived to sit but when my weight bore on the body of an Egyptian it crushed it on the body of an Egyptian it crushed it on the body of an Egyptian it crushed it like a band box I naturally had recourse like a band box I naturally had recourse like a band box I naturally had recourse to my hands to sustain my weight but to my hands to sustain my weight but to my hands to sustain my weight but they found no better support so that I they found no better support so that I they found no better support so that I sunk all together amongst the broken sunk all together amongst the broken sunk all together amongst the broken mummies with a crash of Bones rags and mummies with a crash of Bones rags and mummies with a crash of Bones rags and wooden cases which raised such a dust as wooden cases which raised such a dust as wooden cases which raised such a dust as kept me motionless for a quarter of an kept me motionless for a quarter of an kept me motionless for a quarter of an hour waiting for it to subside again

hour waiting for it to subside again hour waiting for it to subside again once I was conducted from such a place once I was conducted from such a place once I was conducted from such a place to another resembling it through a to another resembling it through a to another resembling it through a passage of about 20 feet in length and passage of about 20 feet in length and passage of about 20 feet in length and no wider than a body could be forced no wider than a body could be forced no wider than a body could be forced through it was choked with mummies and I through it was choked with mummies and I through it was choked with mummies and I could not pass without putting my face could not pass without putting my face could not pass without putting my face in contact with that of some decayed in contact with that of some decayed in contact with that of some decayed Egyptian but as the passage inclined Egyptian but as the passage inclined Egyptian but as the passage inclined down downward my own weight helped me on down downward my own weight helped me on down downward my own weight helped me on however I could not avoid being covered however I could not avoid being covered however I could not avoid being covered with bones legs arms and heads rolling with bones legs arms and heads rolling with bones legs arms and heads rolling from above end quote can you imagine the from above end quote can you imagine the from above end quote can you imagine the tears of the modern day archaeologists tears of the modern day archaeologists tears of the modern day archaeologists thinking how they would have lovingly thinking how they would have lovingly thinking how they would have lovingly used a paintbrush to just remove the used a paintbrush to just remove the used a paintbrush to just remove the tiniest bits of dust off every one of tiniest bits of dust off every one of tiniest bits of dust off every one of those objects yeah that was today that those objects yeah that was today that those objects yeah that was today that same thing you described would have same thing you described would have same thing you described would have taken probably three years to go slowly taken probably three years to go slowly taken probably three years to go slowly inch by Lynch layer by layer and he's inch by Lynch layer by layer and he's inch by Lynch layer by layer and he's just bulldozing through the whole thing just bulldozing through the whole thing just bulldozing through the whole thing rolling over skylator you truly can at rolling over skylator you truly can at rolling over skylator you truly can at the end of this quote you truly can hear the end of this quote you truly can hear the end of this quote you truly can hear the tears of archaeologists worldwide the tears of archaeologists worldwide the tears of archaeologists worldwide then again we can possibly cut this guy then again we can possibly cut this guy then again we can possibly cut this guy a little SLA because he wasn't in the a little SLA because he wasn't in the a little SLA because he wasn't in the early 1800s when archeology as we early 1800s when archeology as we early 1800s when archeology as we understand it today wasn't even on the understand it today wasn't even on the understand it today wasn't even on the horizon horizon horizon no it's and it's interesting because the no it's and it's interesting because the no it's and it's interesting because the author of the history of archeology that author of the history of archeology that author of the history of archeology that I read actually tried to grade Belzoni I read actually tried to grade Belzoni I read actually tried to grade Belzoni on a curve if you will and compared him on a curve if you will and compared him on a curve if you will and compared him to some of his contemporaries one of to some of his contemporaries one of to some of his contemporaries one of whom I believe was an Englishman who whom I believe was an Englishman who whom I believe was an Englishman who when he couldn't find the entrance to when he couldn't find the entrance to when he couldn't find the entrance to the third pyramid at Giza just put

the third pyramid at Giza just put the third pyramid at Giza just put gunpowder between the stones and blew a gunpowder between the stones and blew a gunpowder between the stones and blew a hole into the side of it so that gives hole into the side of it so that gives hole into the side of it so that gives you an idea about this Indiana Jones you an idea about this Indiana Jones you an idea about this Indiana Jones period of archeology and how nobody was period of archeology and how nobody was period of archeology and how nobody was waiting years you know to to get the waiting years you know to to get the waiting years you know to to get the artifacts that somebody was paying them artifacts that somebody was paying them artifacts that somebody was paying them to go grab for them I guess when the bar to go grab for them I guess when the bar to go grab for them I guess when the bar is that low yes maybe it's not that is that low yes maybe it's not that is that low yes maybe it's not that harder to be above it but but yes you harder to be above it but but yes you harder to be above it but but yes you know when you look at what was done in know when you look at what was done in know when you look at what was done in the 1800s never mind before that but the 1800s never mind before that but the 1800s never mind before that but even just as recently as the 1800s even just as recently as the 1800s even just as recently as the 1800s that's more than enough to make modern that's more than enough to make modern that's more than enough to make modern archaeologists cry I mean think about archaeologists cry I mean think about archaeologists cry I mean think about even like one of the most famous early even like one of the most famous early even like one of the most famous early figures in archeology Heinrich figures in archeology Heinrich figures in archeology Heinrich schliemann the guy who discovered Troy schliemann the guy who discovered Troy schliemann the guy who discovered Troy and the whole his fascinating mission and the whole his fascinating mission and the whole his fascinating mission for the Trojan War and all of that for the Trojan War and all of that for the Trojan War and all of that I mean the guy was like on one end I mean the guy was like on one end I mean the guy was like on one end people give him credit because he people give him credit because he people give him credit because he believes in the American story he was believes in the American story he was believes in the American story he was actually able to find something to back actually able to find something to back actually able to find something to back them up and find some evidence for the them up and find some evidence for the them up and find some evidence for the Trojan War but on the other end the fact Trojan War but on the other end the fact Trojan War but on the other end the fact that he started just bulldozing through that he started just bulldozing through that he started just bulldozing through the side digging everything and even the side digging everything and even the side digging everything and even ending up digging the wrong layers at ending up digging the wrong layers at ending up digging the wrong layers at time like destroying some of the layers time like destroying some of the layers time like destroying some of the layers where the conflict would have taken where the conflict would have taken where the conflict would have taken place because he believed that the real place because he believed that the real place because he believed that the real stuff was uh was below that stuff was uh was below that stuff was uh was below that yeah that's not exactly the best kind of yeah that's not exactly the best kind of yeah that's not exactly the best kind of archaeological work ever done archaeological work ever done archaeological work ever done no but it's there's almost like a little no but it's there's almost like a little no but it's there's almost like a little karmic Justice in it right because so so karmic Justice in it right because so so karmic Justice in it right because so so the story you're talking about is how

the story you're talking about is how the story you're talking about is how schliemann his life's Obsession was the schliemann his life's Obsession was the schliemann his life's Obsession was the Troy of the Trojan Wars from The Iliad Troy of the Trojan Wars from The Iliad Troy of the Trojan Wars from The Iliad right so he finds this mound in turkey right so he finds this mound in turkey right so he finds this mound in turkey called hyserlik which is uh which had called hyserlik which is uh which had called hyserlik which is uh which had often been linked to the Trojan Wars often been linked to the Trojan Wars often been linked to the Trojan Wars right so these Mounds a lot of these right so these Mounds a lot of these right so these Mounds a lot of these architect architectural um architect architectural um architect architectural um archaeological digs revolved around archaeological digs revolved around archaeological digs revolved around these Mounds because a lot of these big these Mounds because a lot of these big these Mounds because a lot of these big locations like cities from the ancient locations like cities from the ancient locations like cities from the ancient world they turn into these giant they world they turn into these giant they world they turn into these giant they look like Hills or small mountains look like Hills or small mountains look like Hills or small mountains sometimes so he goes to Historic and he sometimes so he goes to Historic and he sometimes so he goes to Historic and he didn't expect that the site was going to didn't expect that the site was going to didn't expect that the site was going to be occupied through many different eras be occupied through many different eras be occupied through many different eras and as we know now you know this is and as we know now you know this is and as we know now you know this is their strata right there's layers and as their strata right there's layers and as their strata right there's layers and as you go down you're going earlier so one you go down you're going earlier so one you go down you're going earlier so one layer of occupation might be nearer to layer of occupation might be nearer to layer of occupation might be nearer to the surface and then you find another the surface and then you find another the surface and then you find another one 12 or 15 inches below that and one 12 or 15 inches below that and one 12 or 15 inches below that and that's an earlier era and so when that's an earlier era and so when that's an earlier era and so when schliemann goes and finds this Troy that schliemann goes and finds this Troy that schliemann goes and finds this Troy that he's you know this is his life's he's you know this is his life's he's you know this is his life's Obsession he doesn't realize that there Obsession he doesn't realize that there Obsession he doesn't realize that there are multiple layers and when he runs are multiple layers and when he runs are multiple layers and when he runs into the multiple layers he makes an into the multiple layers he makes an into the multiple layers he makes an assumption and the assumption is that assumption and the assumption is that assumption and the assumption is that his Troy the one from The Iliad from his Troy the one from The Iliad from his Troy the one from The Iliad from Homer's era or from Homer's uh from Homer's era or from Homer's uh from Homer's era or from Homer's uh from earlier than Homer's era is going to be earlier than Homer's era is going to be earlier than Homer's era is going to be the very lowest layer and instead of the very lowest layer and instead of the very lowest layer and instead of doing what a modern archaeologist would doing what a modern archaeologist would doing what a modern archaeologist would do and painstakingly you know go layer do and painstakingly you know go layer do and painstakingly you know go layer by layer and excavate he just bulldozes by layer and excavate he just bulldozes by layer and excavate he just bulldozes through the layers destroying much of through the layers destroying much of through the layers destroying much of what exists above them gets down to the what exists above them gets down to the what exists above them gets down to the lowest layer having destroyed much of lowest layer having destroyed much of lowest layer having destroyed much of the above layers only to find that the the above layers only to find that the the above layers only to find that the Troy he was looking for was in a middle Troy he was looking for was in a middle Troy he was looking for was in a middle layer and he had done tons of damage to layer and he had done tons of damage to layer and he had done tons of damage to it on the way down so there's a little

it on the way down so there's a little it on the way down so there's a little karmic Justice in there for the karmic Justice in there for the karmic Justice in there for the bulldozing archaeologist definitely and bulldozing archaeologist definitely and bulldozing archaeologist definitely and I think you know one thing that we I think you know one thing that we I think you know one thing that we probably should have mentioned early on probably should have mentioned early on probably should have mentioned early on but it makes sense is the fact that we but it makes sense is the fact that we but it makes sense is the fact that we need to remember that archeology is a need to remember that archeology is a need to remember that archeology is a destructive is the destructive form of destructive is the destructive form of destructive is the destructive form of research and may not be in the future if research and may not be in the future if research and may not be in the future if we discover progressively more we discover progressively more we discover progressively more sophisticated Technologies to look deep sophisticated Technologies to look deep sophisticated Technologies to look deep into something without how to destroy in into something without how to destroy in into something without how to destroy in the top layers but the reality today is the top layers but the reality today is the top layers but the reality today is that still to this day let alone in the that still to this day let alone in the that still to this day let alone in the previous decades once you dig up a site previous decades once you dig up a site previous decades once you dig up a site you you get whatever information your you you get whatever information your you you get whatever information your current technology is able to give you current technology is able to give you current technology is able to give you based on the evidence but you also based on the evidence but you also based on the evidence but you also destroy often a whole lot of the destroy often a whole lot of the destroy often a whole lot of the evidence in the process and so it's evidence in the process and so it's evidence in the process and so it's always that you know in some cases we always that you know in some cases we always that you know in some cases we discover sites and we're like maybe we discover sites and we're like maybe we discover sites and we're like maybe we should hang on on digging too much to it should hang on on digging too much to it should hang on on digging too much to it because maybe down the road in 20 or 30 because maybe down the road in 20 or 30 because maybe down the road in 20 or 30 years our technology will be better and years our technology will be better and years our technology will be better and we'll be able to do the job in a much we'll be able to do the job in a much we'll be able to do the job in a much cleaner fashion in a less destructive cleaner fashion in a less destructive cleaner fashion in a less destructive fashion of course these were not the fashion of course these were not the fashion of course these were not the kind of concerns that people like kind of concerns that people like kind of concerns that people like schliemanned because not only they're schliemanned because not only they're schliemanned because not only they're wearing wire that way they weren't wearing wire that way they weren't wearing wire that way they weren't educated that way and they didn't even educated that way and they didn't even educated that way and they didn't even have the perspective that that could be have the perspective that that could be have the perspective that that could be something that in the future things something that in the future things something that in the future things would change it reminds me of things like earlier it reminds me of things like earlier crime scenes right if if they had known crime scenes right if if they had known crime scenes right if if they had known that we would want DNA evidence today that we would want DNA evidence today that we would want DNA evidence today they would have gone about investigating they would have gone about investigating they would have gone about investigating the crime scene differently a hundred the crime scene differently a hundred the crime scene differently a hundred years ago or what have you but you're

years ago or what have you but you're years ago or what have you but you're stuck with it right I mean because by stuck with it right I mean because by stuck with it right I mean because by the time you look back on it now the the time you look back on it now the the time you look back on it now the entire thing's been contaminated you entire thing's been contaminated you entire thing's been contaminated you don't have the original stuff anymore don't have the original stuff anymore don't have the original stuff anymore and the people back then were and the people back then were and the people back then were investigating in a totally different way investigating in a totally different way investigating in a totally different way than the way we would do it today 100 than the way we would do it today 100 than the way we would do it today 100 and that's the the Tariq of archeology and that's the the Tariq of archeology and that's the the Tariq of archeology that we we wanted dig as much as that we we wanted dig as much as that we we wanted dig as much as possible to have the information today possible to have the information today possible to have the information today and we want to do it before whether it's and we want to do it before whether it's and we want to do it before whether it's climate change or anything else that climate change or anything else that climate change or anything else that could be damaging to a site whether it's could be damaging to a site whether it's could be damaging to a site whether it's grave robbers coming in because the year grave robbers coming in because the year grave robbers coming in because the year that there's something to be found or that there's something to be found or that there's something to be found or whether it's because a changing climate whether it's because a changing climate whether it's because a changing climate exposes to different conditions aside exposes to different conditions aside exposes to different conditions aside that leads to in distraction so we have that leads to in distraction so we have that leads to in distraction so we have the pressure to rush to it and at the the pressure to rush to it and at the the pressure to rush to it and at the same time we have this pressure of ah same time we have this pressure of ah same time we have this pressure of ah maybe we should hang on a second until maybe we should hang on a second until maybe we should hang on a second until our technology improves our technology improves our technology improves you know one of the things it's a great you know one of the things it's a great you know one of the things it's a great point one of the things that destroys a point one of the things that destroys a point one of the things that destroys a ton of these archaeological sites are ton of these archaeological sites are ton of these archaeological sites are the creation of dams and the flooding of the creation of dams and the flooding of the creation of dams and the flooding of places into reservoirs and I always said places into reservoirs and I always said places into reservoirs and I always said if I if the only way I think I would if I if the only way I think I would if I if the only way I think I would have the patience to be a modern have the patience to be a modern have the patience to be a modern archaeologist I call it Dan Carlin archaeologist I call it Dan Carlin archaeologist I call it Dan Carlin archaeologist if you said we're going to archaeologist if you said we're going to archaeologist if you said we're going to flood this entire Valley and all the flood this entire Valley and all the flood this entire Valley and all the Antiquities in it are going to be Antiquities in it are going to be Antiquities in it are going to be flooded and lost forever you have six flooded and lost forever you have six flooded and lost forever you have six months to get everything out and then I months to get everything out and then I months to get everything out and then I could pull down down the bulldozers and could pull down down the bulldozers and could pull down down the bulldozers and I forget the little you know paint I forget the little you know paint I forget the little you know paint brushes that that get the dust off the brushes that that get the dust off the brushes that that get the dust off the shards of pottery I'm going in and shards of pottery I'm going in and shards of pottery I'm going in and saving what I can that's the only way I saving what I can that's the only way I saving what I can that's the only way I would have the patience to to do it would have the patience to to do it would have the patience to to do it rescue every mummy you can before they rescue every mummy you can before they rescue every mummy you can before they flood the whole region I can hear

flood the whole region I can hear flood the whole region I can hear listeners wishing that there was the listeners wishing that there was the listeners wishing that there was the equivalent of the time for your episodes equivalent of the time for your episodes equivalent of the time for your episodes it's like yeah three months to get an it's like yeah three months to get an it's like yeah three months to get an episode out whether you like it or not episode out whether you like it or not episode out whether you like it or not it's three months my wife would feel the it's three months my wife would feel the it's three months my wife would feel the same way same way same way and you know the part that we didn't get and you know the part that we didn't get and you know the part that we didn't get into too and this is when you really into too and this is when you really into too and this is when you really start to see I think the the ability to start to see I think the the ability to start to see I think the the ability to have earlier societies talk to us now have earlier societies talk to us now have earlier societies talk to us now and almost like adding water allowing and almost like adding water allowing and almost like adding water allowing them to sort of them to sort of them to sort of Revitalize and and talk again is when Revitalize and and talk again is when Revitalize and and talk again is when they start uh uh translating and they start uh uh translating and they start uh uh translating and deciphering the writing and the language deciphering the writing and the language deciphering the writing and the language of these peoples from so long ago I mean of these peoples from so long ago I mean of these peoples from so long ago I mean for example the coming up with the for example the coming up with the for example the coming up with the ability I mean these guys are like ability I mean these guys are like ability I mean these guys are like archaeological code Breakers but when archaeological code Breakers but when archaeological code Breakers but when they start doing things like deciphering they start doing things like deciphering they start doing things like deciphering Egyptian hieroglyphics or the Mayan Egyptian hieroglyphics or the Mayan Egyptian hieroglyphics or the Mayan writings or Acadian or any of these writings or Acadian or any of these writings or Acadian or any of these various things that allow all of a various things that allow all of a various things that allow all of a sudden the people from you know sudden the people from you know sudden the people from you know thousands of years ago to thousands of years ago to thousands of years ago to talk to us again and give us an idea I talk to us again and give us an idea I talk to us again and give us an idea I mean we have from ancient Sumeria the mean we have from ancient Sumeria the mean we have from ancient Sumeria the Epic of Gilgamesh which is a story from Epic of Gilgamesh which is a story from Epic of Gilgamesh which is a story from a people that have been gone for a people that have been gone for a people that have been gone for thousands of years but because somebody thousands of years but because somebody thousands of years but because somebody wrote it down and somebody was able to wrote it down and somebody was able to wrote it down and somebody was able to translate that all of a sudden the translate that all of a sudden the translate that all of a sudden the Sumerians and their worldview and the Sumerians and their worldview and the Sumerians and their worldview and the way they thought and the stories that way they thought and the stories that way they thought and the stories that they listened to are allowed to live they listened to are allowed to live they listened to are allowed to live again it's like a resurrection isn't it again it's like a resurrection isn't it again it's like a resurrection isn't it absolutely because that's the reality absolutely because that's the reality absolutely because that's the reality that when we are talking I mean now we

that when we are talking I mean now we that when we are talking I mean now we are going from just artifacts to actual are going from just artifacts to actual are going from just artifacts to actual writing when you can recover writing in writing when you can recover writing in writing when you can recover writing in some cases we have recover right you some cases we have recover right you some cases we have recover right you know we have no way to say to know what know we have no way to say to know what know we have no way to say to know what they say because we haven't deciphered they say because we haven't deciphered they say because we haven't deciphered it but when you can't recover writing it but when you can't recover writing it but when you can't recover writing and you can decipher it well now you are and you can decipher it well now you are and you can decipher it well now you are as it's basically the archaeological as it's basically the archaeological as it's basically the archaeological dream it's as good as it's ever gonna dream it's as good as it's ever gonna dream it's as good as it's ever gonna get now of course people can lie in get now of course people can lie in get now of course people can lie in their writing of course you're gonna run their writing of course you're gonna run their writing of course you're gonna run into bias of course you know but that's into bias of course you know but that's into bias of course you know but that's like a real Prime Body Source where like a real Prime Body Source where like a real Prime Body Source where people you can hear people thoughts you people you can hear people thoughts you people you can hear people thoughts you can hear their words you can hear the can hear their words you can hear the can hear their words you can hear the way they describe the war they lived way they describe the war they lived way they describe the war they lived into some historical events that happen into some historical events that happen into some historical events that happen so of course that adds a layer of so of course that adds a layer of so of course that adds a layer of context that often fewer archeology can context that often fewer archeology can context that often fewer archeology can not give us because sometimes it can not give us because sometimes it can not give us because sometimes it can give us this one quick snapshot in time give us this one quick snapshot in time give us this one quick snapshot in time but we don't know what's around it what but we don't know what's around it what but we don't know what's around it what happens before or after or where the happens before or after or where the happens before or after or where the characters involved and for that kind of characters involved and for that kind of characters involved and for that kind of depth it's hard to it's hard to find any depth it's hard to it's hard to find any depth it's hard to it's hard to find any substitute for writing you know writing substitute for writing you know writing substitute for writing you know writing is the thing is the thing is the thing it reminds me of of the line that is it reminds me of of the line that is it reminds me of of the line that is attributed to Cicero the ancient orator attributed to Cicero the ancient orator attributed to Cicero the ancient orator from Rome who's supposed to have said from Rome who's supposed to have said from Rome who's supposed to have said writing is the only true form of writing is the only true form of writing is the only true form of immortality yeah of course that's given immortality yeah of course that's given immortality yeah of course that's given that the language survived because of that the language survived because of that the language survived because of course languages are constantly changing course languages are constantly changing course languages are constantly changing in many languages die off without in many languages die off without in many languages die off without anybody having an idea how to translate anybody having an idea how to translate anybody having an idea how to translate them centuries down the road so you know them centuries down the road so you know them centuries down the road so you know it still is likely on the optimistic it still is likely on the optimistic it still is likely on the optimistic side his quote but but I can see the

side his quote but but I can see the side his quote but but I can see the point you know compared to most other point you know compared to most other point you know compared to most other things yes that's where you have a things yes that's where you have a things yes that's where you have a better shot at things being preserved better shot at things being preserved better shot at things being preserved for sure but sometimes you get lucky for sure but sometimes you get lucky for sure but sometimes you get lucky right and this is something archeology right and this is something archeology right and this is something archeology can do too like the discovery of the can do too like the discovery of the can do too like the discovery of the Rosetta Stone and the Rosetta Stone for Rosetta Stone and the Rosetta Stone for Rosetta Stone and the Rosetta Stone for those who don't know is a perfect those who don't know is a perfect those who don't know is a perfect example of what daniele was talking example of what daniele was talking example of what daniele was talking about earlier uh where where let's call about earlier uh where where let's call about earlier uh where where let's call it recycling to be kind when earlier it recycling to be kind when earlier it recycling to be kind when earlier peoples would tear apart peoples would tear apart peoples would tear apart um uh structures and things that we um uh structures and things that we um uh structures and things that we would consider to be uh you un cultural would consider to be uh you un cultural would consider to be uh you un cultural heritage sites because they wanted the heritage sites because they wanted the heritage sites because they wanted the building material again and they found building material again and they found building material again and they found this Stone embedded in one of the walls this Stone embedded in one of the walls this Stone embedded in one of the walls reused as a piece of building material reused as a piece of building material reused as a piece of building material and the stone had had a a message from I and the stone had had a a message from I and the stone had had a a message from I believe it was a Hellenistic ruler of believe it was a Hellenistic ruler of believe it was a Hellenistic ruler of Egypt and he was trying to make a Egypt and he was trying to make a Egypt and he was trying to make a proclamation and he wanted to make sure proclamation and he wanted to make sure proclamation and he wanted to make sure his people could read it so he wrote it his people could read it so he wrote it his people could read it so he wrote it in three languages one above the other in three languages one above the other in three languages one above the other and by the way the Rosetta Stone is in and by the way the Rosetta Stone is in and by the way the Rosetta Stone is in the British Museum and you can see it the British Museum and you can see it the British Museum and you can see it today and and the the two languages that today and and the the two languages that today and and the the two languages that he wrote for the Egyptians was unknown he wrote for the Egyptians was unknown he wrote for the Egyptians was unknown at the time that the Rosetta Stone was at the time that the Rosetta Stone was at the time that the Rosetta Stone was found but the third language used was found but the third language used was found but the third language used was Greek which they had already deciphered Greek which they had already deciphered Greek which they had already deciphered and so by having the Greek there it was and so by having the Greek there it was and so by having the Greek there it was almost like having a code breaking tool almost like having a code breaking tool almost like having a code breaking tool where they could then sort of reverse where they could then sort of reverse where they could then sort of reverse engineer what the hieroglyphics above engineer what the hieroglyphics above engineer what the hieroglyphics above that had said and what uh the earlier uh that had said and what uh the earlier uh that had said and what uh the earlier uh another Egyptian writing system had said another Egyptian writing system had said another Egyptian writing system had said and so it's like a shortcut to and so it's like a shortcut to and so it's like a shortcut to deciphering an ancient language and when deciphering an ancient language and when deciphering an ancient language and when you think about how many of these pieces

you think about how many of these pieces you think about how many of these pieces of writing that they've found this is of writing that they've found this is of writing that they've found this is the part that boggles the mind there are the part that boggles the mind there are the part that boggles the mind there are so many more pieces of writing and so many more pieces of writing and so many more pieces of writing and tablets and Records than we would tablets and Records than we would tablets and Records than we would normally think I mean in one city alone normally think I mean in one city alone normally think I mean in one city alone a place called nepur in Western Asia a place called nepur in Western Asia a place called nepur in Western Asia they found 30 000 tablets just in that they found 30 000 tablets just in that they found 30 000 tablets just in that City administrative stuff all sorts of City administrative stuff all sorts of City administrative stuff all sorts of commercial records diplomatic records commercial records diplomatic records commercial records diplomatic records all sorts of things and in places like all sorts of things and in places like all sorts of things and in places like Nineveh and and some of the excavations Nineveh and and some of the excavations Nineveh and and some of the excavations they've done in Babylonia I mean they they've done in Babylonia I mean they they've done in Babylonia I mean they find tons of this stuff and so when you find tons of this stuff and so when you find tons of this stuff and so when you talk about what would be missing if you talk about what would be missing if you talk about what would be missing if you play the what if game and ask what would play the what if game and ask what would play the what if game and ask what would we know about these places if we we know about these places if we we know about these places if we couldn't decipher this stuff it is couldn't decipher this stuff it is couldn't decipher this stuff it is shocking yep 100 percent and that's why shocking yep 100 percent and that's why shocking yep 100 percent and that's why that's why you also have the feeling of that's why you also have the feeling of that's why you also have the feeling of like what are we gonna find out in the like what are we gonna find out in the like what are we gonna find out in the future what are the history books gonna future what are the history books gonna future what are the history books gonna look like down the road because of look like down the road because of look like down the road because of course you know the reality is that we course you know the reality is that we course you know the reality is that we are constantly discovering new things are constantly discovering new things are constantly discovering new things that shine new light on history that that shine new light on history that that shine new light on history that sometimes had been forgotten until this sometimes had been forgotten until this sometimes had been forgotten until this point or maybe it hadn't been forgotten point or maybe it hadn't been forgotten point or maybe it hadn't been forgotten but we know only a Tiny's liver of it but we know only a Tiny's liver of it but we know only a Tiny's liver of it and that's where I keep hammering on and that's where I keep hammering on and that's where I keep hammering on this idea of context because to me this idea of context because to me this idea of context because to me context is everything without context I context is everything without context I context is everything without context I mean I was thinking uh there's this mean I was thinking uh there's this mean I was thinking uh there's this beautiful archaeological discovery that beautiful archaeological discovery that beautiful archaeological discovery that they made in New Mexico where they found they made in New Mexico where they found they made in New Mexico where they found these Footprints dating from roughly these Footprints dating from roughly these Footprints dating from roughly around 10 000 years ago around 10 000 years ago around 10 000 years ago and these Footprints they give you and these Footprints they give you and these Footprints they give you it's a perfect window in time because it's a perfect window in time because it's a perfect window in time because the archaeologist archaeologists were

the archaeologist archaeologists were the archaeologist archaeologists were able to figure out that this was either able to figure out that this was either able to figure out that this was either a woman or a young man walking along a woman or a young man walking along a woman or a young man walking along with a toddler who sometimes is clearly with a toddler who sometimes is clearly with a toddler who sometimes is clearly they are carrying this toddler and they are carrying this toddler and they are carrying this toddler and sometimes suddenly these small tracks sometimes suddenly these small tracks sometimes suddenly these small tracks pop up next to them as they put the pop up next to them as they put the pop up next to them as they put the toddler down to get them to walk they toddler down to get them to walk they toddler down to get them to walk they could figure out from where to where could figure out from where to where could figure out from where to where they were going so they followed these they were going so they followed these they were going so they followed these Footprints for a long distance they Footprints for a long distance they Footprints for a long distance they could figure out that it started raining could figure out that it started raining could figure out that it started raining short after their walk 10 000 years ago short after their walk 10 000 years ago short after their walk 10 000 years ago they figured out that the person they figured out that the person they figured out that the person carrying this toddler came back the same carrying this toddler came back the same carrying this toddler came back the same way without the toddler we don't really way without the toddler we don't really way without the toddler we don't really know what happened to the kid whether he know what happened to the kid whether he know what happened to the kid whether he was left at a village or what happened was left at a village or what happened was left at a village or what happened they could see how a mammoth and the they could see how a mammoth and the they could see how a mammoth and the giant sloth cross their tracks within giant sloth cross their tracks within giant sloth cross their tracks within just minutes or possibly almost a few just minutes or possibly almost a few just minutes or possibly almost a few hours of them walking by so you have hours of them walking by so you have hours of them walking by so you have these you know if you like your these you know if you like your these you know if you like your imagination go this is a fantastic imagination go this is a fantastic imagination go this is a fantastic picture because you really get this picture because you really get this picture because you really get this snapshot in time of these two snapshot in time of these two snapshot in time of these two individuals Crossing this environment individuals Crossing this environment individuals Crossing this environment the kind of animals that lived in there the kind of animals that lived in there the kind of animals that lived in there and yet we don't know who these people and yet we don't know who these people and yet we don't know who these people were we don't know what happened we were we don't know what happened we were we don't know what happened we don't know we don't know anything you don't know we don't know anything you don't know we don't know anything you know on one end we know so much like to know on one end we know so much like to know on one end we know so much like to the point where really you can see uh at the point where really you can see uh at the point where really you can see uh at what speed was the person walking with what speed was the person walking with what speed was the person walking with the toddler in arm and on the other hand the toddler in arm and on the other hand the toddler in arm and on the other hand we know nothing because we don't know we know nothing because we don't know we know nothing because we don't know the context of the story and often the context of the story and often the context of the story and often archaeologists that that's kind of what archaeologists that that's kind of what archaeologists that that's kind of what the field does it gives you these little

the field does it gives you these little the field does it gives you these little tidbits that seems so precise but tidbits that seems so precise but tidbits that seems so precise but lacking the necessary context this of lacking the necessary context this of lacking the necessary context this of course is precise only to a point and course is precise only to a point and course is precise only to a point and instead what you just described when you instead what you just described when you instead what you just described when you find the miracle Discovery when you find find the miracle Discovery when you find find the miracle Discovery when you find the Rosetta Stone of the story suddenly the Rosetta Stone of the story suddenly the Rosetta Stone of the story suddenly all kind of context become available to all kind of context become available to all kind of context become available to you when you start fleshing out and you when you start fleshing out and you when you start fleshing out and adding layers to stories that maybe you adding layers to stories that maybe you adding layers to stories that maybe you knew just a tiny tiny bit about knew just a tiny tiny bit about knew just a tiny tiny bit about you know that's fascinating it's like a you know that's fascinating it's like a you know that's fascinating it's like a moment Frozen in Amber and when I think moment Frozen in Amber and when I think moment Frozen in Amber and when I think about that idea of a moment Frozen in about that idea of a moment Frozen in about that idea of a moment Frozen in Amber I always think of the eruption of Amber I always think of the eruption of Amber I always think of the eruption of Mount Vesuvius that buried Pompeii and Mount Vesuvius that buried Pompeii and Mount Vesuvius that buried Pompeii and cities like that and you know one of the cities like that and you know one of the cities like that and you know one of the things I don't know how current this is things I don't know how current this is things I don't know how current this is because my history of archeology was because my history of archeology was because my history of archeology was written about 30 years ago so this may written about 30 years ago so this may written about 30 years ago so this may have changed but what the author talks have changed but what the author talks have changed but what the author talks about is he said in um in uh I think about is he said in um in uh I think about is he said in um in uh I think it's uh in uh herculinium where where it it's uh in uh herculinium where where it it's uh in uh herculinium where where it was buried in I guess Pompeii was more was buried in I guess Pompeii was more was buried in I guess Pompeii was more Ash and its sister city was more like Ash and its sister city was more like Ash and its sister city was more like hard lava so they're actually chipping hard lava so they're actually chipping hard lava so they're actually chipping away and and and getting that city out away and and and getting that city out away and and and getting that city out of stone when they're when they're of stone when they're when they're of stone when they're when they're Excavating it but they found a library Excavating it but they found a library Excavating it but they found a library of burnt Scrolls that when they founded of burnt Scrolls that when they founded of burnt Scrolls that when they founded uh Steven says they looked like logs uh Steven says they looked like logs uh Steven says they looked like logs like they'd been burnt and then what like they'd been burnt and then what like they'd been burnt and then what happened is the outside layer had been happened is the outside layer had been happened is the outside layer had been burnt but all of the inside layers are burnt but all of the inside layers are burnt but all of the inside layers are still okay and they just require the still okay and they just require the still okay and they just require the technology because you can't really technology because you can't really technology because you can't really unroll them without tearing them to unroll them without tearing them to unroll them without tearing them to pieces now and and if you could just use pieces now and and if you could just use pieces now and and if you could just use the technology to read what's on the the technology to read what's on the the technology to read what's on the Scrolls and 30 years ago they may not

Scrolls and 30 years ago they may not Scrolls and 30 years ago they may not have had that they may be doing that now have had that they may be doing that now have had that they may be doing that now I'm not aware but that's an example I'm not aware but that's an example I'm not aware but that's an example because Steven says that much of the because Steven says that much of the because Steven says that much of the stuff we have from Rome whether you're stuff we have from Rome whether you're stuff we have from Rome whether you're talking about Livy or polybius or some talking about Livy or polybius or some talking about Livy or polybius or some of these great writers that we have of these great writers that we have of these great writers that we have there's often big chunks of their there's often big chunks of their there's often big chunks of their writing that that have been that have writing that that have been that have writing that that have been that have disappeared over the eras and we may be disappeared over the eras and we may be disappeared over the eras and we may be able to fill in some of those gaps when able to fill in some of those gaps when able to fill in some of those gaps when these scrolls are deciphered or even these scrolls are deciphered or even these scrolls are deciphered or even have authors that we were never exposed have authors that we were never exposed have authors that we were never exposed to so one of my big fantasies is that to so one of my big fantasies is that to so one of my big fantasies is that they continue to find these libraries they continue to find these libraries they continue to find these libraries all over the world and will be able to all over the world and will be able to all over the world and will be able to flesh out a lot of stuff we don't know flesh out a lot of stuff we don't know flesh out a lot of stuff we don't know right now right now right now 14 year old me would be very 14 year old me would be very 14 year old me would be very disappointed in this because in high disappointed in this because in high disappointed in this because in high school in Italy I had to they torture me school in Italy I had to they torture me school in Italy I had to they torture me making me translate ancient Latin and making me translate ancient Latin and making me translate ancient Latin and ancient Greek if there was even more ancient Greek if there was even more ancient Greek if there was even more material like I remember going through material like I remember going through material like I remember going through all of this guy Levy and you know just all of this guy Levy and you know just all of this guy Levy and you know just about every one of those writers from about every one of those writers from about every one of those writers from back then if suddenly you were to Triple back then if suddenly you were to Triple back then if suddenly you were to Triple or quadruple the material available or quadruple the material available or quadruple the material available would be a great thing for history a would be a great thing for history a would be a great thing for history a less great thing for 14 year old daniele less great thing for 14 year old daniele less great thing for 14 year old daniele translating all this stuff translating all this stuff translating all this stuff oh but I'm jealous that you got to read oh but I'm jealous that you got to read oh but I'm jealous that you got to read them in basically closer anyway to the them in basically closer anyway to the them in basically closer anyway to the original language you know it's funny original language you know it's funny original language you know it's funny though because with those languages though because with those languages though because with those languages because they are not languages that because they are not languages that because they are not languages that people use all the time I mean I've seen people use all the time I mean I've seen people use all the time I mean I've seen later people starting to try to revive later people starting to try to revive later people starting to try to revive Latin and actually have conversation in Latin and actually have conversation in Latin and actually have conversation in Latin and all that but when you deal Latin and all that but when you deal Latin and all that but when you deal with the language that's essentially a with the language that's essentially a with the language that's essentially a dead language that people are not using dead language that people are not using dead language that people are not using on a day-to-day basis it's very

on a day-to-day basis it's very on a day-to-day basis it's very different like you know if you learn different like you know if you learn different like you know if you learn Spanish today after a while you'll be Spanish today after a while you'll be Spanish today after a while you'll be semi-decent at having a conversation semi-decent at having a conversation semi-decent at having a conversation with Latin or Greek for some reason of with Latin or Greek for some reason of with Latin or Greek for some reason of despite years of studying I always found despite years of studying I always found despite years of studying I always found uh it was still a challenge I mean you uh it was still a challenge I mean you uh it was still a challenge I mean you do pick up layers that you wouldn't pick do pick up layers that you wouldn't pick do pick up layers that you wouldn't pick up if you read them in translation for up if you read them in translation for up if you read them in translation for sure but it was still a much harder sure but it was still a much harder sure but it was still a much harder challenge than learning a living challenge than learning a living challenge than learning a living language language language well and as you pointed out earlier well and as you pointed out earlier well and as you pointed out earlier languages change I mean look how languages change I mean look how languages change I mean look how different English was in Shakespeare's different English was in Shakespeare's different English was in Shakespeare's time and that's a much shorter period of time and that's a much shorter period of time and that's a much shorter period of time between then and now than trying to time between then and now than trying to time between then and now than trying to you know take Cicero's air and and read you know take Cicero's air and and read you know take Cicero's air and and read his Latin yep yeah for sure his Latin yep yeah for sure his Latin yep yeah for sure and you know even with all that was lost and you know even with all that was lost and you know even with all that was lost from the 1700s to the late 1800s with from the 1700s to the late 1800s with from the 1700s to the late 1800s with guys like Belzoni doing the Dan Carlin guys like Belzoni doing the Dan Carlin guys like Belzoni doing the Dan Carlin equivalent of taking like backhoes and equivalent of taking like backhoes and equivalent of taking like backhoes and tractors to the Valley of the Kings to tractors to the Valley of the Kings to tractors to the Valley of the Kings to you know to scoop up mummies and you know to scoop up mummies and you know to scoop up mummies and everything you can't help but notice how everything you can't help but notice how everything you can't help but notice how much progress was made I mean the much progress was made I mean the much progress was made I mean the difference between what humankind knew difference between what humankind knew difference between what humankind knew about the world of the past from the about the world of the past from the about the world of the past from the time of the American Revolution in the time of the American Revolution in the time of the American Revolution in the 1770s to the 1890s or the 1900 era is 1770s to the 1890s or the 1900 era is 1770s to the 1890s or the 1900 era is night and day night and day night and day and the difference in the approach of and the difference in the approach of and the difference in the approach of archaeologists is as well archaeologists is as well archaeologists is as well I mean people like Belzoni weren't I mean people like Belzoni weren't I mean people like Belzoni weren't really concerned with piecing together really concerned with piecing together really concerned with piecing together the past so we had a you know sort of the past so we had a you know sort of the past so we had a you know sort of clarified picture of things but neither clarified picture of things but neither clarified picture of things but neither would most of the people in his time

would most of the people in his time would most of the people in his time period one of the sort of dirty little period one of the sort of dirty little period one of the sort of dirty little secrets of the whole thing is while a secrets of the whole thing is while a secrets of the whole thing is while a guy like Belzoni is sawing guy like Belzoni is sawing guy like Belzoni is sawing precious multi-ton statues into pieces precious multi-ton statues into pieces precious multi-ton statues into pieces so he can cart them off across the so he can cart them off across the so he can cart them off across the landscape and take them overseas to landscape and take them overseas to landscape and take them overseas to Europe the locals in those areas weren't Europe the locals in those areas weren't Europe the locals in those areas weren't all that concerned with them either I all that concerned with them either I all that concerned with them either I mean he may have as he said been mean he may have as he said been mean he may have as he said been stealing the Egyptians papyri but the stealing the Egyptians papyri but the stealing the Egyptians papyri but the Egyptian peasants I mean there's a great Egyptian peasants I mean there's a great Egyptian peasants I mean there's a great story of Belzoni having to leave one of story of Belzoni having to leave one of story of Belzoni having to leave one of these statues that he's dragging across these statues that he's dragging across these statues that he's dragging across the landscape at one point and when he the landscape at one point and when he the landscape at one point and when he comes back the local peasants have lit comes back the local peasants have lit comes back the local peasants have lit it on fire trying to turn it into lime it on fire trying to turn it into lime it on fire trying to turn it into lime which they can use for things like which they can use for things like which they can use for things like farming purposes right so nobody was farming purposes right so nobody was farming purposes right so nobody was really concerned with preserving these really concerned with preserving these really concerned with preserving these ancient artifacts because they were ancient artifacts because they were ancient artifacts because they were special to the heritage of the people special to the heritage of the people special to the heritage of the people and by the way the governors and the and by the way the governors and the and by the way the governors and the rulers of these areas weren't either rulers of these areas weren't either rulers of these areas weren't either they were giving away artifacts as gifts they were giving away artifacts as gifts they were giving away artifacts as gifts they were giving away the rights to dig they were giving away the rights to dig they were giving away the rights to dig this stuff up to other countries for this stuff up to other countries for this stuff up to other countries for diplomatic reasons diplomatic reasons diplomatic reasons it's only by the time that Heinrich it's only by the time that Heinrich it's only by the time that Heinrich schliemann is tearing up the mound at schliemann is tearing up the mound at schliemann is tearing up the mound at hyserlick in the 1870s that you begin to hyserlick in the 1870s that you begin to hyserlick in the 1870s that you begin to see a very different sort of archeology see a very different sort of archeology see a very different sort of archeology take hold maybe we could call it the take hold maybe we could call it the take hold maybe we could call it the archeology of the ghost of archeology archeology of the ghost of archeology archeology of the ghost of archeology present where by the time you have present where by the time you have present where by the time you have Howard Carter in the 1920s opening up Howard Carter in the 1920s opening up Howard Carter in the 1920s opening up King Tutankhamun's tomb you see what King Tutankhamun's tomb you see what King Tutankhamun's tomb you see what looks much more like modern looks much more like modern looks much more like modern archaeological sorts of approaches right archaeological sorts of approaches right archaeological sorts of approaches right where they're going more methodically where they're going more methodically where they're going more methodically they're taking their time they're noting they're taking their time they're noting they're taking their time they're noting all the strata down they're marking all the strata down they're marking all the strata down they're marking every location where they find stuff and

every location where they find stuff and every location where they find stuff and they're paying attention to things that they're paying attention to things that they're paying attention to things that a guy like Belzoni would have considered a guy like Belzoni would have considered a guy like Belzoni would have considered to be archaeological trash right even to be archaeological trash right even to be archaeological trash right even broken shards of pottery are important broken shards of pottery are important broken shards of pottery are important to the modern archaeologists and so to the modern archaeologists and so to the modern archaeologists and so maybe we could say it's about that time maybe we could say it's about that time maybe we could say it's about that time period where you transition from the period where you transition from the period where you transition from the ghost of archeology past to the ghost of ghost of archeology past to the ghost of ghost of archeology past to the ghost of archeology present and once you hit the archeology present and once you hit the archeology present and once you hit the Contemporary era you start getting into Contemporary era you start getting into Contemporary era you start getting into contemporary moral questions the sorts contemporary moral questions the sorts contemporary moral questions the sorts of stuff that a guy like Giovanni of stuff that a guy like Giovanni of stuff that a guy like Giovanni Belzoni never even considered if you'd Belzoni never even considered if you'd Belzoni never even considered if you'd have said to him listen maybe you have said to him listen maybe you have said to him listen maybe you shouldn't go into these tombs and shouldn't go into these tombs and shouldn't go into these tombs and destroy all these mummies after all this destroy all these mummies after all this destroy all these mummies after all this is the sacred resting place of a lot of is the sacred resting place of a lot of is the sacred resting place of a lot of human beings he didn't even consider human beings he didn't even consider human beings he didn't even consider stuff like that but we do and there's stuff like that but we do and there's stuff like that but we do and there's all sorts of questions that a lot of all sorts of questions that a lot of all sorts of questions that a lot of people especially lay people ask about people especially lay people ask about people especially lay people ask about archeology like is it really cool to go archeology like is it really cool to go archeology like is it really cool to go in and desecrate tombs and move people in and desecrate tombs and move people in and desecrate tombs and move people from their final resting place and take from their final resting place and take from their final resting place and take them for study or maybe even long-term them for study or maybe even long-term them for study or maybe even long-term storage in a museum or a university storage in a museum or a university storage in a museum or a university what do you think about that what do you think about that what do you think about that well and this is where the modern well and this is where the modern well and this is where the modern controversy is kick in because in many controversy is kick in because in many controversy is kick in because in many cases when you're dealing with artifacts cases when you're dealing with artifacts cases when you're dealing with artifacts or even more so when you're dealing with or even more so when you're dealing with or even more so when you're dealing with human remains the question is where's human remains the question is where's human remains the question is where's the right to them and in some cases it's the right to them and in some cases it's the right to them and in some cases it's obvious you know nobody goes to dig up obvious you know nobody goes to dig up obvious you know nobody goes to dig up your grandma at the cemetery there's your grandma at the cemetery there's your grandma at the cemetery there's there's a personal connection not yet there's a personal connection not yet there's a personal connection not yet not yet exactly but it's like how many not yet exactly but it's like how many not yet exactly but it's like how many generations need to pass before your

generations need to pass before your generations need to pass before your grandma is somebody's great great grandma is somebody's great great grandma is somebody's great great grandma now it's getting a little grandma now it's getting a little grandma now it's getting a little fuzzier now it's like well in the fuzzier now it's like well in the fuzzier now it's like well in the interest of science we want to know what interest of science we want to know what interest of science we want to know what people were doing back then and and in people were doing back then and and in people were doing back then and and in some cases you know there's still a some cases you know there's still a some cases you know there's still a connection with living people in some connection with living people in some connection with living people in some cases the connection if it exists is so cases the connection if it exists is so cases the connection if it exists is so long gone in memory that nobody has any long gone in memory that nobody has any long gone in memory that nobody has any idea and that's also goes into the idea and that's also goes into the idea and that's also goes into the complicated issues regarding identity complicated issues regarding identity complicated issues regarding identity regarding a race regarding all sorts of regarding a race regarding all sorts of regarding a race regarding all sorts of things because sometimes you know you things because sometimes you know you things because sometimes you know you have you make a Discovery at one place have you make a Discovery at one place have you make a Discovery at one place and and somebody may have an attachment and and somebody may have an attachment and and somebody may have an attachment saying hey that was our ancestors but saying hey that was our ancestors but saying hey that was our ancestors but that's based on the idea that people that's based on the idea that people that's based on the idea that people don't move in some cases somebody who don't move in some cases somebody who don't move in some cases somebody who lived there two thousand years ago as lived there two thousand years ago as lived there two thousand years ago as next no connection with the people next no connection with the people next no connection with the people living there today now not always of living there today now not always of living there today now not always of course in some cases there is a course in some cases there is a course in some cases there is a connection but it gets it start getting connection but it gets it start getting connection but it gets it start getting complicated because it brings up complicated because it brings up complicated because it brings up political issues at that point it starts political issues at that point it starts political issues at that point it starts bringing up the meaning of what does it bringing up the meaning of what does it bringing up the meaning of what does it mean to belong to a particular ethnic mean to belong to a particular ethnic mean to belong to a particular ethnic group like does ethnicity really survive group like does ethnicity really survive group like does ethnicity really survive through the centuries whether on a through the centuries whether on a through the centuries whether on a biological level or a cultural level or biological level or a cultural level or biological level or a cultural level or any level any level any level and those are all questions that clearly and those are all questions that clearly and those are all questions that clearly are unsettling because they go they end are unsettling because they go they end are unsettling because they go they end up messing with people's sense of up messing with people's sense of up messing with people's sense of identity which is one of the Sacred cows identity which is one of the Sacred cows identity which is one of the Sacred cows that usually you don't want to mess up that usually you don't want to mess up that usually you don't want to mess up if you want to if you value your life if you want to if you value your life if you want to if you value your life well and look clearly we can look at

well and look clearly we can look at well and look clearly we can look at things like Native American skeletons things like Native American skeletons things like Native American skeletons from 150 years ago that are in museums from 150 years ago that are in museums from 150 years ago that are in museums or in universities now and that to me or in universities now and that to me or in universities now and that to me seems a very different story than seems a very different story than seems a very different story than something like the Kenny Wick man that something like the Kenny Wick man that something like the Kenny Wick man that they found here so-called Kenny Wickman they found here so-called Kenny Wickman they found here so-called Kenny Wickman that they found here in the Pacific that they found here in the Pacific that they found here in the Pacific Northwest that when they dated it it was Northwest that when they dated it it was Northwest that when they dated it it was dated to be over 9 000 years old which dated to be over 9 000 years old which dated to be over 9 000 years old which means it predates all recorded human means it predates all recorded human means it predates all recorded human history but some of the peoples in the history but some of the peoples in the history but some of the peoples in the Pacific Northwest have claimed that Pacific Northwest have claimed that Pacific Northwest have claimed that Kenny Wickman as an ancestor and are Kenny Wickman as an ancestor and are Kenny Wickman as an ancestor and are upset at the fact that you know there upset at the fact that you know there upset at the fact that you know there it's being studied and treated like it's it's being studied and treated like it's it's being studied and treated like it's not somebody's ancestor of to me there's not somebody's ancestor of to me there's not somebody's ancestor of to me there's absolutely no question that the 150 year absolutely no question that the 150 year absolutely no question that the 150 year old you know the head of Mangus old you know the head of Mangus old you know the head of Mangus Colorado's the Apache Chief was was in Colorado's the Apache Chief was was in Colorado's the Apache Chief was was in some museum for a long time that to me some museum for a long time that to me some museum for a long time that to me is an obvious case where you can look is an obvious case where you can look is an obvious case where you can look and say that's an ancestor of ours and say that's an ancestor of ours and say that's an ancestor of ours because that's relatively recent history because that's relatively recent history because that's relatively recent history the Kenny Wick man well there's also I the Kenny Wick man well there's also I the Kenny Wick man well there's also I mean then you start saying well if mean then you start saying well if mean then you start saying well if somebody finds a Cro-Magnon man but it's somebody finds a Cro-Magnon man but it's somebody finds a Cro-Magnon man but it's in the location where your peoples are in the location where your peoples are in the location where your peoples are now is there a claim that's much more now is there a claim that's much more now is there a claim that's much more difficult don't you think that's the difficult don't you think that's the difficult don't you think that's the difficulties putting it generously you difficulties putting it generously you difficulties putting it generously you know when you're talking about thousands know when you're talking about thousands know when you're talking about thousands of years the odd that there's any of years the odd that there's any of years the odd that there's any connection becomes next to none I mean I connection becomes next to none I mean I connection becomes next to none I mean I remember when I started studying the remember when I started studying the remember when I started studying the places where I come like I grew up in places where I come like I grew up in places where I come like I grew up in Milan in Italy and I remember reading Milan in Italy and I remember reading Milan in Italy and I remember reading books and I was like oh so this was a books and I was like oh so this was a books and I was like oh so this was a site that was first settled and I site that was first settled and I site that was first settled and I permanently based by some Celtic tribe

permanently based by some Celtic tribe permanently based by some Celtic tribe and I was like oh cool so there's a and I was like oh cool so there's a and I was like oh cool so there's a connection with and then I turn the page connection with and then I turn the page connection with and then I turn the page and it's like and 50 years later this and it's like and 50 years later this and it's like and 50 years later this other group came by and killed them all other group came by and killed them all other group came by and killed them all and you go like okay so now those guys and you go like okay so now those guys and you go like okay so now those guys it's these other guys who are my it's these other guys who are my it's these other guys who are my ancestors but then 25 years later this ancestors but then 25 years later this ancestors but then 25 years later this other group came in and they mix heavily other group came in and they mix heavily other group came in and they mix heavily and 50 years and before you know once and 50 years and before you know once and 50 years and before you know once you look at like a deep history you look you look at like a deep history you look you look at like a deep history you look at the two thousand three thousand years at the two thousand three thousand years at the two thousand three thousand years of History whatever we know of History whatever we know of History whatever we know you realize that just about everyone and you realize that just about everyone and you realize that just about everyone and their Grandma pastor liaria and so who I their Grandma pastor liaria and so who I their Grandma pastor liaria and so who I am today I have no idea who I'm am today I have no idea who I'm am today I have no idea who I'm connected to from hundreds of years ago connected to from hundreds of years ago connected to from hundreds of years ago you know there's it's very very they're you know there's it's very very they're you know there's it's very very they're doing better and better job with DNA doing better and better job with DNA doing better and better job with DNA trying to but even that is very trying to but even that is very trying to but even that is very it doesn't tell you personal stories you it doesn't tell you personal stories you it doesn't tell you personal stories you know it doesn't so to be able to trace know it doesn't so to be able to trace know it doesn't so to be able to trace somebody living today to somebody so somebody living today to somebody so somebody living today to somebody so deep into the past is at best a deep into the past is at best a deep into the past is at best a challenge if we want to be generous in challenge if we want to be generous in challenge if we want to be generous in many cases it's not right impossible many cases it's not right impossible many cases it's not right impossible well and you know there's a trade-off I well and you know there's a trade-off I well and you know there's a trade-off I think that's sometimes missed on some of think that's sometimes missed on some of think that's sometimes missed on some of these deals in other words these deals in other words these deals in other words um some peoples in some parts of the um some peoples in some parts of the um some peoples in some parts of the world may feel like there is a violation world may feel like there is a violation world may feel like there is a violation going on when tombs are opened and going on when tombs are opened and going on when tombs are opened and artifacts are removed but there's a artifacts are removed but there's a artifacts are removed but there's a payoff sometimes and I notice I don't payoff sometimes and I notice I don't payoff sometimes and I notice I don't want to call it defensive but I noticed want to call it defensive but I noticed want to call it defensive but I noticed that in my history of archeology that in my history of archeology that in my history of archeology uncovering the past the author several uncovering the past the author several uncovering the past the author several times at the end of various chapters times at the end of various chapters times at the end of various chapters will say something like and because we

will say something like and because we will say something like and because we found this we allowed these people's found this we allowed these people's found this we allowed these people's Heritage to be restored to them and Heritage to be restored to them and Heritage to be restored to them and there's some examples that are maybe there's some examples that are maybe there's some examples that are maybe worth citing so for example you know the worth citing so for example you know the worth citing so for example you know the the great period when archeology the great period when archeology the great period when archeology exploded is in like the 1800s and as we exploded is in like the 1800s and as we exploded is in like the 1800s and as we all know in the 1800s amongst Europeans all know in the 1800s amongst Europeans all know in the 1800s amongst Europeans there's quite a bit of racism and there's quite a bit of racism and there's quite a bit of racism and ethnocentrism and superiority complexes ethnocentrism and superiority complexes ethnocentrism and superiority complexes and so the belief system was was often and so the belief system was was often and so the belief system was was often that these peoples in the other parts of that these peoples in the other parts of that these peoples in the other parts of the world whether we're talking about the world whether we're talking about the world whether we're talking about the Americas or whether we're talking the Americas or whether we're talking the Americas or whether we're talking about places like Africa especially about places like Africa especially about places like Africa especially sub-Saharan Africa were unsophisticated sub-Saharan Africa were unsophisticated sub-Saharan Africa were unsophisticated and they didn't know how to build great and they didn't know how to build great and they didn't know how to build great monuments like the great civilizations monuments like the great civilizations monuments like the great civilizations and because of that they extrapolated and because of that they extrapolated and because of that they extrapolated out assumptions like you know you hear out assumptions like you know you hear out assumptions like you know you hear it from racists even today all the time it from racists even today all the time it from racists even today all the time about black Africans they'll say well about black Africans they'll say well about black Africans they'll say well you can tell they're not as you can tell they're not as you can tell they're not as sophisticated as we were because where sophisticated as we were because where sophisticated as we were because where are all their great civilizations well are all their great civilizations well are all their great civilizations well the archeology it shows you that they the archeology it shows you that they the archeology it shows you that they don't know what they're talking about don't know what they're talking about don't know what they're talking about but the archeology shows that for but the archeology shows that for but the archeology shows that for example sub-Saharan Africa had great example sub-Saharan Africa had great example sub-Saharan Africa had great civilizations and the racism and civilizations and the racism and civilizations and the racism and ethnocentrism is so deep that when they ethnocentrism is so deep that when they ethnocentrism is so deep that when they were first discovered the white were first discovered the white were first discovered the white archaeologists who discovered them in archaeologists who discovered them in archaeologists who discovered them in the 1800s could not bring themselves to the 1800s could not bring themselves to the 1800s could not bring themselves to attribute their building to the black attribute their building to the black attribute their building to the black Africans and had to concoct theories of Africans and had to concoct theories of Africans and had to concoct theories of how there must have been white people how there must have been white people how there must have been white people there once upon a time who were there once upon a time who were there once upon a time who were eventually wiped out I mean for example eventually wiped out I mean for example eventually wiped out I mean for example there's a place called The Great there's a place called The Great there's a place called The Great Zimbabwe which is an archaeological site Zimbabwe which is an archaeological site Zimbabwe which is an archaeological site that they found in sub-Saharan Africa that they found in sub-Saharan Africa that they found in sub-Saharan Africa that so bowled over the excavators when

that so bowled over the excavators when that so bowled over the excavators when they found it that they couldn't believe they found it that they couldn't believe they found it that they couldn't believe the locals had built it and steaming has the locals had built it and steaming has the locals had built it and steaming has an account from one of the early an account from one of the early an account from one of the early archaeologists who founded and was one archaeologists who founded and was one archaeologists who founded and was one of the people that couldn't believe the of the people that couldn't believe the of the people that couldn't believe the locals could build this but he described locals could build this but he described locals could build this but he described what he saw and here's his description what he saw and here's his description what he saw and here's his description so according to Steven's book this site so according to Steven's book this site so according to Steven's book this site that became known as the Great Zimbabwe that became known as the Great Zimbabwe that became known as the Great Zimbabwe was taboo to the people who lived there was taboo to the people who lived there was taboo to the people who lived there when the discoveries were made so they when the discoveries were made so they when the discoveries were made so they didn't go to the site and they also were didn't go to the site and they also were didn't go to the site and they also were not the original people there because not the original people there because not the original people there because the these people had only moved in there the these people had only moved in there the these people had only moved in there about 50 years beforehand so it had been about 50 years beforehand so it had been about 50 years beforehand so it had been another group of sub-Saharan Africans another group of sub-Saharan Africans another group of sub-Saharan Africans but here's what they found when they but here's what they found when they but here's what they found when they uncovered the ruins and Stephen's book uncovered the ruins and Stephen's book uncovered the ruins and Stephen's book it says quote it says quote it says quote during several excursions from the during several excursions from the during several excursions from the village in 1871 and 1872 Carl Mark village in 1871 and 1872 Carl Mark village in 1871 and 1872 Carl Mark the archaeologist or the archaeologist or the archaeologist or pseudo-archaeologist finally got to pseudo-archaeologist finally got to pseudo-archaeologist finally got to explore the stone ruins about which he explore the stone ruins about which he explore the stone ruins about which he had heard so much at the foot of a high had heard so much at the foot of a high had heard so much at the foot of a high hill he found a great circular enclosure hill he found a great circular enclosure hill he found a great circular enclosure with granite walls about 20 feet high with granite walls about 20 feet high with granite walls about 20 feet high inside were lower partially crumbled inside were lower partially crumbled inside were lower partially crumbled walls and a conical Tower about 30 feet walls and a conical Tower about 30 feet walls and a conical Tower about 30 feet high all were constructed of stones high all were constructed of stones high all were constructed of stones about twice the size of bricks that had about twice the size of bricks that had about twice the size of bricks that had been fit together without mortar on the been fit together without mortar on the been fit together without mortar on the hill were more ruins protected by a hill were more ruins protected by a hill were more ruins protected by a strong fortification wall that varied strong fortification wall that varied strong fortification wall that varied between 6 to 12 feet in thickness these between 6 to 12 feet in thickness these between 6 to 12 feet in thickness these massive structures as well as many massive structures as well as many massive structures as well as many smaller ones between the Citadel and the

smaller ones between the Citadel and the smaller ones between the Citadel and the great enclosure were overgrown with great enclosure were overgrown with great enclosure were overgrown with trees and vegetations Mark had found the trees and vegetations Mark had found the trees and vegetations Mark had found the site now called Great Zimbabwe end quote site now called Great Zimbabwe end quote site now called Great Zimbabwe end quote so later on Steven points out that the so later on Steven points out that the so later on Steven points out that the people that moved in once this site were people that moved in once this site were people that moved in once this site were found were all these Prospectors and found were all these Prospectors and found were all these Prospectors and people looking for gold and they did a people looking for gold and they did a people looking for gold and they did a lot of damage to the site one of the lot of damage to the site one of the lot of damage to the site one of the companies I love this one of the companies I love this one of the companies I love this one of the companies was actually called the companies was actually called the companies was actually called the ancient ruins company which is a great ancient ruins company which is a great ancient ruins company which is a great name for a company that actually deals name for a company that actually deals name for a company that actually deals in ancient ruins but here's an example in ancient ruins but here's an example in ancient ruins but here's an example of Steven pointed out not maybe even of Steven pointed out not maybe even of Steven pointed out not maybe even sounding a little defensive about what sounding a little defensive about what sounding a little defensive about what archaeologists have to do to these sites archaeologists have to do to these sites archaeologists have to do to these sites in terms of violating taboos or digging in terms of violating taboos or digging in terms of violating taboos or digging up Graves but points out that because up Graves but points out that because up Graves but points out that because they did they're able to give back these they did they're able to give back these they did they're able to give back these people's Heritage and he writes quote people's Heritage and he writes quote people's Heritage and he writes quote archeology has now solved many of the archeology has now solved many of the archeology has now solved many of the mysteries of Zimbabwe perhaps in mysteries of Zimbabwe perhaps in mysteries of Zimbabwe perhaps in dispersing images of the Queen of Sheba dispersing images of the Queen of Sheba dispersing images of the Queen of Sheba or King Solomon's M voice walking around or King Solomon's M voice walking around or King Solomon's M voice walking around the ruins meaning it was really white the ruins meaning it was really white the ruins meaning it was really white people who did it it also destroyed some people who did it it also destroyed some people who did it it also destroyed some of the Romantic lure that had drawn of the Romantic lure that had drawn of the Romantic lure that had drawn westerners to the area in the past but westerners to the area in the past but westerners to the area in the past but truth is almost always less romantic truth is almost always less romantic truth is almost always less romantic than myth archeology has restored Great than myth archeology has restored Great than myth archeology has restored Great Zimbabwe and other Iron Age sites in Zimbabwe and other Iron Age sites in Zimbabwe and other Iron Age sites in southern Africa to their True Builders southern Africa to their True Builders southern Africa to their True Builders thus returning to Black Africans an thus returning to Black Africans an thus returning to Black Africans an important part of their Heritage end important part of their Heritage end important part of their Heritage end quote so is it worth it Danielle well quote so is it worth it Danielle well quote so is it worth it Danielle well and I think that's where it gets uh I and I think that's where it gets uh I and I think that's where it gets uh I guess there are two different points to guess there are two different points to guess there are two different points to that like on one level of course it's

that like on one level of course it's that like on one level of course it's super fascinating to ReDiscover aspects super fascinating to ReDiscover aspects super fascinating to ReDiscover aspects of history that would have been long of history that would have been long of history that would have been long forgotten that some people would have forgotten that some people would have forgotten that some people would have used for racist reasons to say oh you used for racist reasons to say oh you used for racist reasons to say oh you see these people are below us because see these people are below us because see these people are below us because they didn't do this and that and when they didn't do this and that and when they didn't do this and that and when you discover that the history is much you discover that the history is much you discover that the history is much more complicated well that's of course more complicated well that's of course more complicated well that's of course is a good thing there's another aspect is a good thing there's another aspect is a good thing there's another aspect though that's funny that like though that's funny that like though that's funny that like in itself this kind of discoveries seem in itself this kind of discoveries seem in itself this kind of discoveries seem to be seems to be based on and the to be seems to be based on and the to be seems to be based on and the assumption that you are only civilized assumption that you are only civilized assumption that you are only civilized they are only Advanced you are only good they are only Advanced you are only good they are only Advanced you are only good almost on a moral level if you build the almost on a moral level if you build the almost on a moral level if you build the complicated stuff if you have complex complicated stuff if you have complex complicated stuff if you have complex civilizations if you have a Monumental civilizations if you have a Monumental civilizations if you have a Monumental architecture if you have urban planning architecture if you have urban planning architecture if you have urban planning which in itself is kind of interesting which in itself is kind of interesting which in itself is kind of interesting because because because to me I don't know I may be coming at it to me I don't know I may be coming at it to me I don't know I may be coming at it from a different angle but to me there from a different angle but to me there from a different angle but to me there is no superiority in this or rather yes is no superiority in this or rather yes is no superiority in this or rather yes that shows that your civilization is that shows that your civilization is that shows that your civilization is capable of building complicated stuff capable of building complicated stuff capable of building complicated stuff but complicated doesn't necessarily but complicated doesn't necessarily but complicated doesn't necessarily always mean better on a quality of life always mean better on a quality of life always mean better on a quality of life kind of way I mean look at like the the kind of way I mean look at like the the kind of way I mean look at like the the a bunch of people throughout history who a bunch of people throughout history who a bunch of people throughout history who did live in the midst of some of the did live in the midst of some of the did live in the midst of some of the biggest greatest civilizations ever from biggest greatest civilizations ever from biggest greatest civilizations ever from the point of view of complexity where the point of view of complexity where the point of view of complexity where slaves were absolutely miserable for a slaves were absolutely miserable for a slaves were absolutely miserable for a whole variety of circumstances and whole variety of circumstances and whole variety of circumstances and sometimes when you compare their life sometimes when you compare their life sometimes when you compare their life with a bunch of hunters and gatherers with a bunch of hunters and gatherers with a bunch of hunters and gatherers living with their tribe in a fair

living with their tribe in a fair living with their tribe in a fair legalitarian scenario you're like I legalitarian scenario you're like I legalitarian scenario you're like I don't know that that's a superior way of don't know that that's a superior way of don't know that that's a superior way of living it's a it's a more complex way of living it's a it's a more complex way of living it's a it's a more complex way of living is a way of living that give living is a way of living that give living is a way of living that give access to many certainly many advantages access to many certainly many advantages access to many certainly many advantages but also this so I don't know to me I but also this so I don't know to me I but also this so I don't know to me I tend to have a little bit of a more tend to have a little bit of a more tend to have a little bit of a more relativistic approach to ranking called relativistic approach to ranking called relativistic approach to ranking called stores in this fashion in the way that stores in this fashion in the way that stores in this fashion in the way that these guys seem to do some time when these guys seem to do some time when these guys seem to do some time when they were thinking oh if we find big they were thinking oh if we find big they were thinking oh if we find big cities that's a sign that you guys are cities that's a sign that you guys are cities that's a sign that you guys are civilized they are not primitive civilized they are not primitive civilized they are not primitive I think that's a great point it's almost I think that's a great point it's almost I think that's a great point it's almost our own cultural bias and and the our own cultural bias and and the our own cultural bias and and the measurements by which we decide measurements by which we decide measurements by which we decide something is valuable or not valuable something is valuable or not valuable something is valuable or not valuable like you said if we measure it in terms like you said if we measure it in terms like you said if we measure it in terms of human satisfaction and happiness we of human satisfaction and happiness we of human satisfaction and happiness we may come up with a very different answer may come up with a very different answer may come up with a very different answer exactly and that's where I feel that we exactly and that's where I feel that we exactly and that's where I feel that we do and this is something that we still do and this is something that we still do and this is something that we still have in history books to this day there have in history books to this day there have in history books to this day there is this bias that we are constantly is this bias that we are constantly is this bias that we are constantly moving from a place of Simplicity to a moving from a place of Simplicity to a moving from a place of Simplicity to a place of complexity which that in itself place of complexity which that in itself place of complexity which that in itself is not true because there are many gaps is not true because there are many gaps is not true because there are many gaps in there there are many times when more in there there are many times when more in there there are many times when more advanced civilizations collapse and are advanced civilizations collapse and are advanced civilizations collapse and are replaced by centuries of less Advanced replaced by centuries of less Advanced replaced by centuries of less Advanced civilization from a technological civilization from a technological civilization from a technological standpoint but even if we were to grant standpoint but even if we were to grant standpoint but even if we were to grant that assumption also the second that assumption also the second that assumption also the second assumption is that this is an assumption is that this is an assumption is that this is an improvement this is somehow better and improvement this is somehow better and improvement this is somehow better and better again as you are saying better better again as you are saying better better again as you are saying better according to what Matrix what are we according to what Matrix what are we according to what Matrix what are we talking about you know are we talking talking about you know are we talking talking about you know are we talking about the capability to affect the about the capability to affect the about the capability to affect the environment yeah then yes more complex environment yeah then yes more complex environment yeah then yes more complex will give you that are we talking about

will give you that are we talking about will give you that are we talking about human beings being happier living more human beings being happier living more human beings being happier living more fulfilling lives well then probably not fulfilling lives well then probably not fulfilling lives well then probably not so much so again it's uh so much so again it's uh so much so again it's uh some of these assumptions are unstated some of these assumptions are unstated some of these assumptions are unstated but they probably should be stated but they probably should be stated but they probably should be stated because they I do feel that they because they I do feel that they because they I do feel that they mess with our perception of it all mess with our perception of it all mess with our perception of it all I think that's a great it's a great I think that's a great it's a great I think that's a great it's a great point and and when I was a kid and when point and and when I was a kid and when point and and when I was a kid and when you were a kid and we were reading about you were a kid and we were reading about you were a kid and we were reading about things like the fall of Rome's Western things like the fall of Rome's Western things like the fall of Rome's Western Empire and The Barbarians taking over in Empire and The Barbarians taking over in Empire and The Barbarians taking over in the west it was always portrayed as some the west it was always portrayed as some the west it was always portrayed as some sort of a catastrophe and all of a sort of a catastrophe and all of a sort of a catastrophe and all of a sudden you know the great technology of sudden you know the great technology of sudden you know the great technology of Rome and all of the things that the Rome and all of the things that the Rome and all of the things that the Roman civilization brought to these Roman civilization brought to these Roman civilization brought to these people was replaced by barbarism and a people was replaced by barbarism and a people was replaced by barbarism and a lower level of civilizational technology lower level of civilizational technology lower level of civilizational technology and capabilities but some of the stuff and capabilities but some of the stuff and capabilities but some of the stuff in the last 20 years and I think we used in the last 20 years and I think we used in the last 20 years and I think we used them in a show we did a while back some them in a show we did a while back some them in a show we did a while back some of the great histories written about of the great histories written about of the great histories written about this lately point out that another way this lately point out that another way this lately point out that another way of looking at this is that maybe the of looking at this is that maybe the of looking at this is that maybe the people in these areas that formerly were people in these areas that formerly were people in these areas that formerly were hooked up to the great Roman version of hooked up to the great Roman version of hooked up to the great Roman version of the internet were being better served by the internet were being better served by the internet were being better served by what came afterwards for example some of what came afterwards for example some of what came afterwards for example some of these barbarians that took over didn't these barbarians that took over didn't these barbarians that took over didn't tax the locals to the same degree that tax the locals to the same degree that tax the locals to the same degree that the Romans did and some of these the Romans did and some of these the Romans did and some of these barbarians that came later were able to barbarians that came later were able to barbarians that came later were able to better protect the locals than Rome had better protect the locals than Rome had better protect the locals than Rome had been near the end so it's very possible been near the end so it's very possible been near the end so it's very possible that we're looking at this through our that we're looking at this through our that we're looking at this through our own lens and saying my goodness I own lens and saying my goodness I own lens and saying my goodness I wouldn't want to lose those wonderful wouldn't want to lose those wonderful wouldn't want to lose those wonderful baths and the wonderful aqueducts but baths and the wonderful aqueducts but baths and the wonderful aqueducts but the people there might have made a the people there might have made a the people there might have made a different decision might have felt very

different decision might have felt very different decision might have felt very differently about it absolutely and I differently about it absolutely and I differently about it absolutely and I think that's where the cultural think that's where the cultural think that's where the cultural trade-offs are interesting because the trade-offs are interesting because the trade-offs are interesting because the rarely you're gonna run into a rarely you're gonna run into a rarely you're gonna run into a civilization that's clearly a hundred civilization that's clearly a hundred civilization that's clearly a hundred percent Superior to another by and by percent Superior to another by and by percent Superior to another by and by Superior I mean that any person that you Superior I mean that any person that you Superior I mean that any person that you put in at the proverbial Crossroads say put in at the proverbial Crossroads say put in at the proverbial Crossroads say do you want to go to path a or to path B do you want to go to path a or to path B do you want to go to path a or to path B they all say clearly a is better in most they all say clearly a is better in most they all say clearly a is better in most cases it's a mixed bag in most cases it cases it's a mixed bag in most cases it cases it's a mixed bag in most cases it really depends sometime on the really depends sometime on the really depends sometime on the individual on your particular cultural individual on your particular cultural individual on your particular cultural makeup on your priorities on your own makeup on your priorities on your own makeup on your priorities on your own that's why I mean when you think about that's why I mean when you think about that's why I mean when you think about it the fact that and this is something it the fact that and this is something it the fact that and this is something that Euro Americans demoned to no end in that Euro Americans demoned to no end in that Euro Americans demoned to no end in the 17 and 1800s sometimes the 17 and 1800s sometimes the 17 and 1800s sometimes people were captured by certain native people were captured by certain native people were captured by certain native tribes in North America they didn't want tribes in North America they didn't want tribes in North America they didn't want to go back when they had a chance to go to go back when they had a chance to go to go back when they had a chance to go and could be freed and that clearly and could be freed and that clearly and could be freed and that clearly messed with the whole set of assumptions messed with the whole set of assumptions messed with the whole set of assumptions that some Europe Americans said where that some Europe Americans said where that some Europe Americans said where the Assumption was we are clearly the Assumption was we are clearly the Assumption was we are clearly Superior in every possible way and Superior in every possible way and Superior in every possible way and anybody who has a choice would want to anybody who has a choice would want to anybody who has a choice would want to be with us be with us be with us And yet when your own people once they And yet when your own people once they And yet when your own people once they spend some time in another culture spend some time in another culture spend some time in another culture decided not to come back decided not to come back decided not to come back well that throws a ranch into all those well that throws a ranch into all those well that throws a ranch into all those assumptions and again I'm not trying to assumptions and again I'm not trying to assumptions and again I'm not trying to argue I'm not trying to argue that one argue I'm not trying to argue that one argue I'm not trying to argue that one culture is better than the other in culture is better than the other in culture is better than the other in Reverse by say kind of having some noble Reverse by say kind of having some noble Reverse by say kind of having some noble savage kind of thing that clearly the savage kind of thing that clearly the savage kind of thing that clearly the native cultures were better in heaven native cultures were better in heaven native cultures were better in heaven that's not what I'm saying at all I mean

that's not what I'm saying at all I mean that's not what I'm saying at all I mean to me like one my favorite story in to me like one my favorite story in to me like one my favorite story in regards to this kind of tale is the regards to this kind of tale is the regards to this kind of tale is the story of Gonzalo Guerrero Gonzalo story of Gonzalo Guerrero Gonzalo story of Gonzalo Guerrero Gonzalo Guerrero is one of them and the other Guerrero is one of them and the other Guerrero is one of them and the other one is Geronimo de Aguilar where two one is Geronimo de Aguilar where two one is Geronimo de Aguilar where two Spaniards to Shipwrecked on the coast of Spaniards to Shipwrecked on the coast of Spaniards to Shipwrecked on the coast of Mexico in 1511 like 80 years before Mexico in 1511 like 80 years before Mexico in 1511 like 80 years before Cortez arrived by the time Cortez Cortez arrived by the time Cortez Cortez arrived by the time Cortez arrives the two Spaniards have been arrives the two Spaniards have been arrives the two Spaniards have been separated and they have been living in separated and they have been living in separated and they have been living in different Maya towns for a while and different Maya towns for a while and different Maya towns for a while and Cortes and this man ran into Geronimo Cortes and this man ran into Geronimo Cortes and this man ran into Geronimo dagilar and Aguilar dagilar and Aguilar dagilar and Aguilar could not be any happier he's like I could not be any happier he's like I could not be any happier he's like I prayed every day that this would happen prayed every day that this would happen prayed every day that this would happen I'm gonna get to see Spain again you I'm gonna get to see Spain again you I'm gonna get to see Spain again you know he's know he's know he's ecstatic to be able to be reunited with ecstatic to be able to be reunited with ecstatic to be able to be reunited with some Spaniards and to go back to Europe some Spaniards and to go back to Europe some Spaniards and to go back to Europe eventually but he said oh we should go eventually but he said oh we should go eventually but he said oh we should go look for my friend Gonzalo he's I look for my friend Gonzalo he's I look for my friend Gonzalo he's I haven't seen him in a few years but I haven't seen him in a few years but I haven't seen him in a few years but I know he's in a village down the road know he's in a village down the road know he's in a village down the road let's go check up on him and they arrive let's go check up on him and they arrive let's go check up on him and they arrive and they find Gonzalo Guerrero covered and they find Gonzalo Guerrero covered and they find Gonzalo Guerrero covered in tribal tattoos from head to toe he's in tribal tattoos from head to toe he's in tribal tattoos from head to toe he's married to a Maya woman he has three married to a Maya woman he has three married to a Maya woman he has three kids with this woman and when they tell kids with this woman and when they tell kids with this woman and when they tell him he's like how we are here to free him he's like how we are here to free him he's like how we are here to free you and bring you back to Spain he's you and bring you back to Spain he's you and bring you back to Spain he's like well nice of you guys to show up it like well nice of you guys to show up it like well nice of you guys to show up it was good seeing you but I'm good here was good seeing you but I'm good here was good seeing you but I'm good here you know say hello to Spain for me you know say hello to Spain for me you know say hello to Spain for me because I and the point to me of this because I and the point to me of this because I and the point to me of this story that is beautiful is the role that story that is beautiful is the role that story that is beautiful is the role that individuals play in history right it's individuals play in history right it's individuals play in history right it's not like old Spaniards who have made the not like old Spaniards who have made the not like old Spaniards who have made the jump or old Spaniards would have been jump or old Spaniards would have been jump or old Spaniards would have been ecstatic to return to Europe one person

ecstatic to return to Europe one person ecstatic to return to Europe one person is and one person is not and then that's is and one person is not and then that's is and one person is not and then that's where where where a layer of complexity to the stories a layer of complexity to the stories a layer of complexity to the stories that the over simplistic version of one that the over simplistic version of one that the over simplistic version of one culture Superior to another tend to culture Superior to another tend to culture Superior to another tend to gloss over all this stuff gloss over all this stuff gloss over all this stuff well and needless to say the vast well and needless to say the vast well and needless to say the vast majority of let's just take North majority of let's just take North majority of let's just take North American natives but this could apply American natives but this could apply American natives but this could apply elsewhere the vast majority when shown elsewhere the vast majority when shown elsewhere the vast majority when shown you know the white man's civilization you know the white man's civilization you know the white man's civilization didn't want that they wanted to go back didn't want that they wanted to go back didn't want that they wanted to go back and live the way they traditionally had and live the way they traditionally had and live the way they traditionally had they were happier that way and as to they were happier that way and as to they were happier that way and as to your point earlier about you know if you your point earlier about you know if you your point earlier about you know if you measure this stuff by happiness rather measure this stuff by happiness rather measure this stuff by happiness rather than you know the amount of technology than you know the amount of technology than you know the amount of technology and whatever you have I mean there were and whatever you have I mean there were and whatever you have I mean there were very few Native Americans who saw white very few Native Americans who saw white very few Native Americans who saw white civilization said give me some of that civilization said give me some of that civilization said give me some of that yeah exactly or maybe you want one yeah exactly or maybe you want one yeah exactly or maybe you want one aspect it's like hey I like those uh aspect it's like hey I like those uh aspect it's like hey I like those uh sharp knives I dig them all right I like sharp knives I dig them all right I like sharp knives I dig them all right I like the fact that with the still ax I can the fact that with the still ax I can the fact that with the still ax I can cut down a tree and make a canoe in one cut down a tree and make a canoe in one cut down a tree and make a canoe in one day instead of a week but that's it I day instead of a week but that's it I day instead of a week but that's it I don't want everything else I just want don't want everything else I just want don't want everything else I just want the shower pack you know it's often a the shower pack you know it's often a the shower pack you know it's often a selective thing where it's like yeah I selective thing where it's like yeah I selective thing where it's like yeah I like ABC that you bring to the table but like ABC that you bring to the table but like ABC that you bring to the table but I don't want everything else when I I don't want everything else when I I don't want everything else when I think of the archeology though and you think of the archeology though and you think of the archeology though and you think about people saying something like think about people saying something like think about people saying something like well you shouldn't dig up those tombs I well you shouldn't dig up those tombs I well you shouldn't dig up those tombs I always wonder about the what if I try to always wonder about the what if I try to always wonder about the what if I try to examine a lot of problems that way and examine a lot of problems that way and examine a lot of problems that way and say okay can we really imagine people say okay can we really imagine people say okay can we really imagine people seeing all these tombs and saying you seeing all these tombs and saying you seeing all these tombs and saying you know we shouldn't break into that King know we shouldn't break into that King know we shouldn't break into that King Tutankhamun's tomb it wouldn't be a good Tutankhamun's tomb it wouldn't be a good Tutankhamun's tomb it wouldn't be a good thing there's a curse on it anyway they thing there's a curse on it anyway they thing there's a curse on it anyway they wouldn't have wanted us to do it so

wouldn't have wanted us to do it so wouldn't have wanted us to do it so we're just gonna leave it there I find we're just gonna leave it there I find we're just gonna leave it there I find it difficult to imagine human beings it difficult to imagine human beings it difficult to imagine human beings doing that especially if the if we're doing that especially if the if we're doing that especially if the if we're not so so like if you said the ancient not so so like if you said the ancient not so so like if you said the ancient Egyptians who still practice the Egyptians who still practice the Egyptians who still practice the religion and whatever that you shouldn't religion and whatever that you shouldn't religion and whatever that you shouldn't do this I can see them laying off but do this I can see them laying off but do this I can see them laying off but once that religion's gone and the once that religion's gone and the once that religion's gone and the connection to that's over I mean we had connection to that's over I mean we had connection to that's over I mean we had tomb robbers raiding the vast majority tomb robbers raiding the vast majority tomb robbers raiding the vast majority of tombs especially in Egypt but all of tombs especially in Egypt but all of tombs especially in Egypt but all over the world tomb robbers are raiding over the world tomb robbers are raiding over the world tomb robbers are raiding these things so clearly they're not these things so clearly they're not these things so clearly they're not deterred and they don't care one wit deterred and they don't care one wit deterred and they don't care one wit about you know what somebody would have about you know what somebody would have about you know what somebody would have felt about their grandmother being dug felt about their grandmother being dug felt about their grandmother being dug up I wonder if there's a little bit like up I wonder if there's a little bit like up I wonder if there's a little bit like if it's a little like virginity if the if it's a little like virginity if the if it's a little like virginity if the tomb is already raided by robbers in the tomb is already raided by robbers in the tomb is already raided by robbers in the past does it matter if you're the second past does it matter if you're the second past does it matter if you're the second one who comes there anymore right right one who comes there anymore right right one who comes there anymore right right if the tomb is pristine we don't want to if the tomb is pristine we don't want to if the tomb is pristine we don't want to destroy it but when they've already gone destroy it but when they've already gone destroy it but when they've already gone in there you know thrown The Mummy on in there you know thrown The Mummy on in there you know thrown The Mummy on the floor or broken open it's it's chest the floor or broken open it's it's chest the floor or broken open it's it's chest cavity to try to take the scarabs out at cavity to try to take the scarabs out at cavity to try to take the scarabs out at that point doesn't matter anymore Dan that point doesn't matter anymore Dan that point doesn't matter anymore Dan Carlin for you virginity and Grave Robin Carlin for you virginity and Grave Robin Carlin for you virginity and Grave Robin an obvious connection that's right a an obvious connection that's right a an obvious connection that's right a clear obvious connection I love that the clear obvious connection I love that the clear obvious connection I love that the no and I think that's where things get no and I think that's where things get no and I think that's where things get uh got really interesting because of who uh got really interesting because of who uh got really interesting because of who gets to make those choices and is it gets to make those choices and is it gets to make those choices and is it even like one of the most fascinating even like one of the most fascinating even like one of the most fascinating archaeological discoveries of the last archaeological discoveries of the last archaeological discoveries of the last three decades or so to me has been the three decades or so to me has been the three decades or so to me has been the discovery of what sometimes is referred discovery of what sometimes is referred discovery of what sometimes is referred to as the ice Maiden uh skitian mommy to as the ice Maiden uh skitian mommy to as the ice Maiden uh skitian mommy from um I think it was the fifth century

from um I think it was the fifth century from um I think it was the fifth century Before Common Era or so so we're talking Before Common Era or so so we're talking Before Common Era or so so we're talking a really long time ago where she was the a really long time ago where she was the a really long time ago where she was the Gap and she was super perfectly Gap and she was super perfectly Gap and she was super perfectly preserved that you could even see the preserved that you could even see the preserved that you could even see the tattoos on her skin that's how good it tattoos on her skin that's how good it tattoos on her skin that's how good it was uh interesting Enough by the way the was uh interesting Enough by the way the was uh interesting Enough by the way the tattoos there's plenty of people today tattoos there's plenty of people today tattoos there's plenty of people today who because that discovery made the who because that discovery made the who because that discovery made the headlines ended up in National headlines ended up in National headlines ended up in National Geographic and was all over and because Geographic and was all over and because Geographic and was all over and because the tattoos are so beautiful there are the tattoos are so beautiful there are the tattoos are so beautiful there are plenty of people today who have them plenty of people today who have them plenty of people today who have them tattooed on their skin today which in tattooed on their skin today which in tattooed on their skin today which in itself is uh weird can you imagine like itself is uh weird can you imagine like itself is uh weird can you imagine like some lady 2500 years ago roaming the some lady 2500 years ago roaming the some lady 2500 years ago roaming the steps she gets her tattoo done and some steps she gets her tattoo done and some steps she gets her tattoo done and some almost 3000 years later people to this almost 3000 years later people to this almost 3000 years later people to this day walk into a tattoo part or with a day walk into a tattoo part or with a day walk into a tattoo part or with a copy of National Geographic and go I copy of National Geographic and go I copy of National Geographic and go I want this want this want this that's the repeat itself but you know that's the repeat itself but you know that's the repeat itself but you know this was a fantastic Discovery was uh this was a fantastic Discovery was uh this was a fantastic Discovery was uh was beautiful oh sorry I should nerd out was beautiful oh sorry I should nerd out was beautiful oh sorry I should nerd out on one more detail on the tattoos on one more detail on the tattoos on one more detail on the tattoos there's if you post the image toward the there's if you post the image toward the there's if you post the image toward the end of Kill Bill 2 that whole one of the end of Kill Bill 2 that whole one of the end of Kill Bill 2 that whole one of the tattoos that this lady had on her skin tattoos that this lady had on her skin tattoos that this lady had on her skin is painted on a wall in one of the is painted on a wall in one of the is painted on a wall in one of the houses in Kill Bill too so you know you houses in Kill Bill too so you know you houses in Kill Bill too so you know you see this but aside for me geeking out on see this but aside for me geeking out on see this but aside for me geeking out on this stuff what's fascinating is that this stuff what's fascinating is that this stuff what's fascinating is that they found this woman they were able to they found this woman they were able to they found this woman they were able to tell so much about who she was her life tell so much about who she was her life tell so much about who she was her life the culture that she came from there the culture that she came from there the culture that she came from there were all sorts of goods that have been were all sorts of goods that have been were all sorts of goods that have been placed in the grave with her they give placed in the grave with her they give placed in the grave with her they give us a snapshot of what skition culture

us a snapshot of what skition culture us a snapshot of what skition culture was like 2500 years ago but of course was like 2500 years ago but of course was like 2500 years ago but of course there's also the other side of it the there's also the other side of it the there's also the other side of it the local population today or like hey we local population today or like hey we local population today or like hey we don't want Russian archaeologists to don't want Russian archaeologists to don't want Russian archaeologists to come in and take our ancestors now come in and take our ancestors now come in and take our ancestors now Russian archaeologists come back and say Russian archaeologists come back and say Russian archaeologists come back and say Well about that being your ancestor not Well about that being your ancestor not Well about that being your ancestor not so sure because we ran the DNA and she's so sure because we ran the DNA and she's so sure because we ran the DNA and she's way more European than she's Asian and way more European than she's Asian and way more European than she's Asian and then the guys from the the local then the guys from the the local then the guys from the the local population start contesting the DNA population start contesting the DNA population start contesting the DNA results and argued that the DNA shows a results and argued that the DNA shows a results and argued that the DNA shows a much more complicated teacher which was much more complicated teacher which was much more complicated teacher which was many was true who knows because people many was true who knows because people many was true who knows because people were rarely belong to a single ethnicity were rarely belong to a single ethnicity were rarely belong to a single ethnicity back then there was so much movement back then there was so much movement back then there was so much movement back and forth you know it gets into back and forth you know it gets into back and forth you know it gets into this into this fight that has much more this into this fight that has much more this into this fight that has much more to do with modern politics and sense of to do with modern politics and sense of to do with modern politics and sense of nationhood and sense of people wanting nationhood and sense of people wanting nationhood and sense of people wanting to who this lady was 2500 years ago and to who this lady was 2500 years ago and to who this lady was 2500 years ago and their relationship to today gets to be their relationship to today gets to be their relationship to today gets to be the literal truth of it got to be swept the literal truth of it got to be swept the literal truth of it got to be swept under the rug in the name of all the under the rug in the name of all the under the rug in the name of all the political conflicts that a discovery political conflicts that a discovery political conflicts that a discovery like these races and I find it like these races and I find it like these races and I find it fascinating to see how people negotiate fascinating to see how people negotiate fascinating to see how people negotiate them because in some cases they them because in some cases they them because in some cases they negotiate them very well you know in negotiate them very well you know in negotiate them very well you know in some cases the local population and some cases the local population and some cases the local population and archaeologists make a deal they find a archaeologists make a deal they find a archaeologists make a deal they find a point of agreement they feel like you point of agreement they feel like you point of agreement they feel like you know the ideal scenarios where know the ideal scenarios where know the ideal scenarios where archaeologists say okay we're gonna work archaeologists say okay we're gonna work archaeologists say okay we're gonna work on this for 10 years we're gonna on this for 10 years we're gonna on this for 10 years we're gonna discover every single weekend and then discover every single weekend and then discover every single weekend and then we're gonna return the remains to you we're gonna return the remains to you we're gonna return the remains to you and you re-burry them however you want

and you re-burry them however you want and you re-burry them however you want and in some cases they shake hands and and in some cases they shake hands and and in some cases they shake hands and do that because they each see a do that because they each see a do that because they each see a legitimate claim on the other side and legitimate claim on the other side and legitimate claim on the other side and in some cases they don't and they go at in some cases they don't and they go at in some cases they don't and they go at each other's throat with hey we need to each other's throat with hey we need to each other's throat with hey we need to know it for science versus the screw know it for science versus the screw know it for science versus the screw your science this is our ancestor you your science this is our ancestor you your science this is our ancestor you don't touch her don't touch her don't touch her and and again I find myself and and again I find myself and and again I find myself switching my opinion pretty much case to switching my opinion pretty much case to switching my opinion pretty much case to case depending of how long ago we are case depending of how long ago we are case depending of how long ago we are talking about as you are saying if talking about as you are saying if talking about as you are saying if you're talking about 150 years ago is a you're talking about 150 years ago is a you're talking about 150 years ago is a very different story than from 2000 very different story than from 2000 very different story than from 2000 years ago so how strong is the years ago so how strong is the years ago so how strong is the connection to the present and and all of connection to the present and and all of connection to the present and and all of that that that well and you can't have any sacred cows well and you can't have any sacred cows well and you can't have any sacred cows right you can't say we can dig up your right you can't say we can dig up your right you can't say we can dig up your ancestors but no one can dig up ours if ancestors but no one can dig up ours if ancestors but no one can dig up ours if it's okay to dig up somebody else's it's okay to dig up somebody else's it's okay to dig up somebody else's ancestors we need to be prepared for ancestors we need to be prepared for ancestors we need to be prepared for somebody who want to dig up George somebody who want to dig up George somebody who want to dig up George Washington Thomas Jefferson and all Washington Thomas Jefferson and all Washington Thomas Jefferson and all those guys too right what's good for the those guys too right what's good for the those guys too right what's good for the goose is good for the gander absolutely goose is good for the gander absolutely goose is good for the gander absolutely you know in that sense yeah you cannot you know in that sense yeah you cannot you know in that sense yeah you cannot if you lay down a ground rule of what's if you lay down a ground rule of what's if you lay down a ground rule of what's acceptable and what's not that acceptable and what's not that acceptable and what's not that absolutely applies to everybody absolutely applies to everybody absolutely applies to everybody and you bring up scythians so I can't and you bring up scythians so I can't and you bring up scythians so I can't let that go because you know how much I let that go because you know how much I let that go because you know how much I love the Eurasian peoples of the step love the Eurasian peoples of the step love the Eurasian peoples of the step um and you know here in the United um and you know here in the United um and you know here in the United States we're so attached to the issues States we're so attached to the issues States we're so attached to the issues involving Native Americans and Graves involving Native Americans and Graves involving Native Americans and Graves and all those sorts of things that it and all those sorts of things that it and all those sorts of things that it it's a known subject but I don't think it's a known subject but I don't think it's a known subject but I don't think many in in the United States especially many in in the United States especially many in in the United States especially but maybe even in Western Europe uh also but maybe even in Western Europe uh also but maybe even in Western Europe uh also I'm not sure they understand exactly how I'm not sure they understand exactly how I'm not sure they understand exactly how much there is buried on the Eurasian

much there is buried on the Eurasian much there is buried on the Eurasian step so there have been some good books step so there have been some good books step so there have been some good books that have come out lately and it's funny that have come out lately and it's funny that have come out lately and it's funny how they often come out in clusters and how they often come out in clusters and how they often come out in clusters and you'll get a few good books on the same you'll get a few good books on the same you'll get a few good books on the same subject in quick succession I have one subject in quick succession I have one subject in quick succession I have one uh called Empire of Horses by John Mann uh called Empire of Horses by John Mann uh called Empire of Horses by John Mann that came out recently that came out recently that came out recently uh man is um a historian who specializes uh man is um a historian who specializes uh man is um a historian who specializes in this particular area and period and in this particular area and period and in this particular area and period and he talks about because he visited and he talks about because he visited and he talks about because he visited and was visiting all of these various sites was visiting all of these various sites was visiting all of these various sites and their giant burial grounds and and their giant burial grounds and and their giant burial grounds and what's now places like Mongolia or what's now places like Mongolia or what's now places like Mongolia or Eastern Russia or western China and he Eastern Russia or western China and he Eastern Russia or western China and he talks about the sheer scale and scope of talks about the sheer scale and scope of talks about the sheer scale and scope of this and you know I've been researching this and you know I've been researching this and you know I've been researching these people for years and it still these people for years and it still these people for years and it still caught me off guard listen to this quote caught me off guard listen to this quote caught me off guard listen to this quote from the book to give you an idea of the from the book to give you an idea of the from the book to give you an idea of the the not just the the scope of this but the not just the the scope of this but the not just the the scope of this but how long different people's waves of how long different people's waves of how long different people's waves of successor peoples were using the same successor peoples were using the same successor peoples were using the same places as sort of like giant uh uh places as sort of like giant uh uh places as sort of like giant uh uh hundreds and hundreds of square mile hundreds and hundreds of square mile hundreds and hundreds of square mile mortuaries man writes quote the mortuaries man writes quote the mortuaries man writes quote the scythians and many sub-groups prove so scythians and many sub-groups prove so scythians and many sub-groups prove so successful that they built substantial successful that they built substantial successful that they built substantial kingdoms recalled not by cities but by kingdoms recalled not by cities but by kingdoms recalled not by cities but by the tombs of their leaders how many the tombs of their leaders how many the tombs of their leaders how many tombs no one knows certainly tens of tombs no one knows certainly tens of tombs no one knows certainly tens of thousands perhaps hundreds of thousands thousands perhaps hundreds of thousands thousands perhaps hundreds of thousands they run from north of the Black Sea they run from north of the Black Sea they run from north of the Black Sea across present-day Southern Russia and across present-day Southern Russia and across present-day Southern Russia and Kazakhstan into Mongolia and Southern Kazakhstan into Mongolia and Southern Kazakhstan into Mongolia and Southern Siberia to my eyes they are like Braille Siberia to my eyes they are like Braille Siberia to my eyes they are like Braille dots on the pages of history that reveal dots on the pages of history that reveal dots on the pages of history that reveal truth to those with the skill to read

truth to those with the skill to read truth to those with the skill to read them many were treasure chests of them many were treasure chests of them many were treasure chests of possessions presumably to sustain the possessions presumably to sustain the possessions presumably to sustain the rich and Powerful in the afterlife so rich and Powerful in the afterlife so rich and Powerful in the afterlife so for centuries they were literally gold for centuries they were literally gold for centuries they were literally gold mines for grave robbers end quote mines for grave robbers end quote mines for grave robbers end quote he then talks about another tomb area he then talks about another tomb area he then talks about another tomb area and again it boggles the mind and a and again it boggles the mind and a and again it boggles the mind and a bunch of these tombs by the way freeze bunch of these tombs by the way freeze bunch of these tombs by the way freeze on the first Frost and so when on the first Frost and so when on the first Frost and so when archaeologists find these things they're archaeologists find these things they're archaeologists find these things they're basically blocks of ice which is why basically blocks of ice which is why basically blocks of ice which is why they've been able to find as you pointed they've been able to find as you pointed they've been able to find as you pointed out the skin of these people and the out the skin of these people and the out the skin of these people and the tattoos that were on them textiles the tattoos that were on them textiles the tattoos that were on them textiles the sacrificial animals and I was blown away sacrificial animals and I was blown away sacrificial animals and I was blown away by one of the accounts of them uh by one of the accounts of them uh by one of the accounts of them uh thawing out one of these tombs and the thawing out one of these tombs and the thawing out one of these tombs and the sacrificial horses and sheep that had sacrificial horses and sheep that had sacrificial horses and sheep that had been put in the tombs started to rot and been put in the tombs started to rot and been put in the tombs started to rot and it was the smell was bothering the it was the smell was bothering the it was the smell was bothering the archaeologist and you thought this is archaeologist and you thought this is archaeologist and you thought this is the smell of decaying animals that were the smell of decaying animals that were the smell of decaying animals that were killed you know 2300 years ago or killed you know 2300 years ago or killed you know 2300 years ago or something man writes this quote scythian something man writes this quote scythian something man writes this quote scythian subgroups organized prodigious grave subgroups organized prodigious grave subgroups organized prodigious grave sites often burying vast amounts of sites often burying vast amounts of sites often burying vast amounts of wealth in southern Siberia for instance wealth in southern Siberia for instance wealth in southern Siberia for instance the menu since I probably mispronounced the menu since I probably mispronounced the menu since I probably mispronounced that uh minusinsk Hollow is prime past that uh minusinsk Hollow is prime past that uh minusinsk Hollow is prime past your land some 125 miles across it and your land some 125 miles across it and your land some 125 miles across it and its surrounding territory have some 30 its surrounding territory have some 30 its surrounding territory have some 30 000 kurgans these are these Mounds where 000 kurgans these are these Mounds where 000 kurgans these are these Mounds where they erect over the tombs acquired over they erect over the tombs acquired over they erect over the tombs acquired over a thousand years the biggest the great

a thousand years the biggest the great a thousand years the biggest the great saubach kurgan is surrounded by 23 saubach kurgan is surrounded by 23 saubach kurgan is surrounded by 23 gigantic Stones weighing up to 40 tons gigantic Stones weighing up to 40 tons gigantic Stones weighing up to 40 tons each cut and hauled from a quarry 60 each cut and hauled from a quarry 60 each cut and hauled from a quarry 60 kilometers away end quote so this is kilometers away end quote so this is kilometers away end quote so this is wild you have just like you said maybe wild you have just like you said maybe wild you have just like you said maybe hundreds of thousands of these tombs I hundreds of thousands of these tombs I hundreds of thousands of these tombs I know that in Russia they've they've know that in Russia they've they've know that in Russia they've they've taken the bodies of something like at taken the bodies of something like at taken the bodies of something like at least a thousand of these uh peoples least a thousand of these uh peoples least a thousand of these uh peoples buried in these places back to Russia to buried in these places back to Russia to buried in these places back to Russia to study so it's it's it's archeology and study so it's it's it's archeology and study so it's it's it's archeology and let's just call it tomb excavation on a let's just call it tomb excavation on a let's just call it tomb excavation on a massive scale but think about what they massive scale but think about what they massive scale but think about what they learn they learn a lot and in fact you learn they learn a lot and in fact you learn they learn a lot and in fact you know when you look at something like the know when you look at something like the know when you look at something like the ice maiden or any of these burials you ice maiden or any of these burials you ice maiden or any of these burials you discover so so much and the part of me discover so so much and the part of me discover so so much and the part of me is extremely thankful for it on the is extremely thankful for it on the is extremely thankful for it on the other hand you do understand the other hand you do understand the other hand you do understand the controversies that are swirling around controversies that are swirling around controversies that are swirling around this stuff because for example like this stuff because for example like this stuff because for example like today and you made a good point about today and you made a good point about today and you made a good point about you know people being familiar with some you know people being familiar with some you know people being familiar with some stories in U.S perhaps but when you talk stories in U.S perhaps but when you talk stories in U.S perhaps but when you talk about something happening in Siberia about something happening in Siberia about something happening in Siberia probably most people don't know the probably most people don't know the probably most people don't know the details and the thing that's interesting details and the thing that's interesting details and the thing that's interesting is that you know you look at a political is that you know you look at a political is that you know you look at a political map and you say oh that's Russia map and you say oh that's Russia map and you say oh that's Russia uh yes and no I mean because the reality uh yes and no I mean because the reality uh yes and no I mean because the reality is that you're dealing in some cases is that you're dealing in some cases is that you're dealing in some cases with tribal people who have had a very with tribal people who have had a very with tribal people who have had a very contentious relationship with the contentious relationship with the contentious relationship with the Russian government for decades or even Russian government for decades or even Russian government for decades or even centuries you deal with the newly centuries you deal with the newly centuries you deal with the newly discovered sense of sell food as a discovered sense of sell food as a discovered sense of sell food as a people that's clashing with Russian people that's clashing with Russian people that's clashing with Russian nationalism so suddenly you discover a

nationalism so suddenly you discover a nationalism so suddenly you discover a mummy there and it's not just a mummy there and it's not just a mummy there and it's not just a scientific discovery it's not like what scientific discovery it's not like what scientific discovery it's not like what you or I would say oh great we got more you or I would say oh great we got more you or I would say oh great we got more information about the past that's like information about the past that's like information about the past that's like poking The Hornet's Nest of nationalism poking The Hornet's Nest of nationalism poking The Hornet's Nest of nationalism of relationship between the state and as of relationship between the state and as of relationship between the state and as particular ethnic groups and things that particular ethnic groups and things that particular ethnic groups and things that you you know since we don't live in the you you know since we don't live in the you you know since we don't live in the contest we probably barely are even contest we probably barely are even contest we probably barely are even aware of it but to those people that aware of it but to those people that aware of it but to those people that overwrites the importance of the overwrites the importance of the overwrites the importance of the scientific discovery you were talking to scientific discovery you were talking to scientific discovery you were talking to me a little bit about the famous ice man me a little bit about the famous ice man me a little bit about the famous ice man can you tell us a little bit more about can you tell us a little bit more about can you tell us a little bit more about that that that yeah that was probably the one discovery yeah that was probably the one discovery yeah that was probably the one discovery that really turned the light on for me that really turned the light on for me that really turned the light on for me regarding the power of archeology regarding the power of archeology regarding the power of archeology because this is goes back to 1991 there because this is goes back to 1991 there because this is goes back to 1991 there was Discovery at the border between was Discovery at the border between was Discovery at the border between Italy and Austria where these as Italy and Austria where these as Italy and Austria where these as glaciers were melting at the time this glaciers were melting at the time this glaciers were melting at the time this one perfectly preserved mummified body one perfectly preserved mummified body one perfectly preserved mummified body popped up and you know there was a whole popped up and you know there was a whole popped up and you know there was a whole crazy series of coincidence that allow crazy series of coincidence that allow crazy series of coincidence that allow for it to be found and not to be for it to be found and not to be for it to be found and not to be destroyed there were so many things that destroyed there were so many things that destroyed there were so many things that happened that day it happened one day happened that day it happened one day happened that day it happened one day before or one day later we would have before or one day later we would have before or one day later we would have never found this thing but the fact was never found this thing but the fact was never found this thing but the fact was it was found we found this body they did it was found we found this body they did it was found we found this body they did once they started studying it they once they started studying it they once they started studying it they realized that it was over 5000 years old realized that it was over 5000 years old realized that it was over 5000 years old so you're talking about 3 000 years so you're talking about 3 000 years so you're talking about 3 000 years before Julius Caesars more than two

before Julius Caesars more than two before Julius Caesars more than two thousand years before the Olympic Games thousand years before the Olympic Games thousand years before the Olympic Games several hundred years before the several hundred years before the several hundred years before the pyramids were even there pyramids were even there pyramids were even there and what we found was not only the man's and what we found was not only the man's and what we found was not only the man's body but we found all the tools he was body but we found all the tools he was body but we found all the tools he was carrying with him they started studying carrying with him they started studying carrying with him they started studying and based on the kind of stuff you were and based on the kind of stuff you were and based on the kind of stuff you were describing by studying his digestive describing by studying his digestive describing by studying his digestive tract they were able to figure out the tract they were able to figure out the tract they were able to figure out the last few days of his life which part of last few days of his life which part of last few days of his life which part of the mountain he was on how he was the mountain he was on how he was the mountain he was on how he was probably way up in the mountain went probably way up in the mountain went probably way up in the mountain went down into the valley dropping several down into the valley dropping several down into the valley dropping several hundred feet to go to some Village down hundred feet to go to some Village down hundred feet to go to some Village down there went back up the mountain where he there went back up the mountain where he there went back up the mountain where he was murdered where we found evidence was murdered where we found evidence was murdered where we found evidence that he was shot with an arrow by that he was shot with an arrow by that he was shot with an arrow by somebody who was clearly a skilled somebody who was clearly a skilled somebody who was clearly a skilled Archer because they could even figure Archer because they could even figure Archer because they could even figure out the trajectory of the arrow and we out the trajectory of the arrow and we out the trajectory of the arrow and we were shot from down the mountain they were shot from down the mountain they were shot from down the mountain they could figure out how many yards he was could figure out how many yards he was could figure out how many yards he was shot from and then whoever shot him just shot from and then whoever shot him just shot from and then whoever shot him just walked up to him and bashed him in the walked up to him and bashed him in the walked up to him and bashed him in the head head head so on one end it's trippy because we so on one end it's trippy because we so on one end it's trippy because we know so much about the guy how tall he know so much about the guy how tall he know so much about the guy how tall he was how much did he weigh how old he was was how much did he weigh how old he was was how much did he weigh how old he was what he ate or as his last meal or what what he ate or as his last meal or what what he ate or as his last meal or what where he walked the last few days of his where he walked the last few days of his where he walked the last few days of his life we found out even other crazy life we found out even other crazy life we found out even other crazy things for example he had all these things for example he had all these things for example he had all these tattoos that are some of the very first tattoos that are some of the very first tattoos that are some of the very first example of tattoos that we find in the example of tattoos that we find in the example of tattoos that we find in the archaeological record archaeological record archaeological record and then doing a study they realized and then doing a study they realized and then doing a study they realized that all these tattoos which are not

that all these tattoos which are not that all these tattoos which are not cool you know imagine they were dots and cool you know imagine they were dots and cool you know imagine they were dots and lines so things that is like why are you lines so things that is like why are you lines so things that is like why are you even doing this stuff they realized even doing this stuff they realized even doing this stuff they realized almost every one of them was located in almost every one of them was located in almost every one of them was located in a spot where the guy was suffering from a spot where the guy was suffering from a spot where the guy was suffering from arthritis so they started thinking oh arthritis so they started thinking oh arthritis so they started thinking oh this is some form of like ancient this is some form of like ancient this is some form of like ancient acupuncture before there was even an acupuncture before there was even an acupuncture before there was even an acupuncture and so there's all this acupuncture and so there's all this acupuncture and so there's all this stuff about like the medicine of it all stuff about like the medicine of it all stuff about like the medicine of it all and what so you know we have all these and what so you know we have all these and what so you know we have all these incredible amount of details about the incredible amount of details about the incredible amount of details about the man's life man's life man's life and yet of course we're still teased by and yet of course we're still teased by and yet of course we're still teased by the mystery of who was he who killed him the mystery of who was he who killed him the mystery of who was he who killed him why the people that he belonged to who why the people that he belonged to who why the people that he belonged to who were the you know we don't know the were the you know we don't know the were the you know we don't know the broader context and we probably never broader context and we probably never broader context and we probably never will and yet we can know so much about will and yet we can know so much about will and yet we can know so much about the one little the one little the one little window in time of the last few days of window in time of the last few days of window in time of the last few days of his life at least part of it and so I his life at least part of it and so I his life at least part of it and so I always found it fascinating because it's always found it fascinating because it's always found it fascinating because it's like reading a murder mystery in a way like reading a murder mystery in a way like reading a murder mystery in a way where it's sad in pieces it's adding where it's sad in pieces it's adding where it's sad in pieces it's adding pieces and you start beginning to see pieces and you start beginning to see pieces and you start beginning to see the picture but of course since we don't the picture but of course since we don't the picture but of course since we don't have the benefit of a screenwriter and have the benefit of a screenwriter and have the benefit of a screenwriter and this is real science you only get so far this is real science you only get so far this is real science you only get so far and there are so much more well and I and there are so much more well and I and there are so much more well and I think maybe we're focusing a little think maybe we're focusing a little think maybe we're focusing a little a little too much maybe on the tomb side a little too much maybe on the tomb side a little too much maybe on the tomb side of it because there's other things that of it because there's other things that of it because there's other things that maybe don't bring up the same level of maybe don't bring up the same level of maybe don't bring up the same level of controversy so for example I was reading controversy so for example I was reading controversy so for example I was reading about how the new technology uh it's about how the new technology uh it's about how the new technology uh it's called lidar Uh is is impacting the

called lidar Uh is is impacting the called lidar Uh is is impacting the study of ancient sites in places where study of ancient sites in places where study of ancient sites in places where jungle and rainforest tend to hide ruins jungle and rainforest tend to hide ruins jungle and rainforest tend to hide ruins and whatnot from the naked eye so it's a and whatnot from the naked eye so it's a and whatnot from the naked eye so it's a lot easier for example to see the giant lot easier for example to see the giant lot easier for example to see the giant structures in a desert in ancient Egypt structures in a desert in ancient Egypt structures in a desert in ancient Egypt than it is in Central or South America than it is in Central or South America than it is in Central or South America where the foliage quickly covers this where the foliage quickly covers this where the foliage quickly covers this stuff so for those who don't know this stuff so for those who don't know this stuff so for those who don't know this lidar technology lidar technology lidar technology um I was reading about it basically what um I was reading about it basically what um I was reading about it basically what it does is it sees through the it does is it sees through the it does is it sees through the vegetation so they can fly a plane over vegetation so they can fly a plane over vegetation so they can fly a plane over these areas and it exposes the these areas and it exposes the these areas and it exposes the structures underneath and the amount of structures underneath and the amount of structures underneath and the amount of stuff they're finding is crazy so I was stuff they're finding is crazy so I was stuff they're finding is crazy so I was reading a story online about how much reading a story online about how much reading a story online about how much it's doing and the story says that uh it's doing and the story says that uh it's doing and the story says that uh before the lidarge study that was before the lidarge study that was before the lidarge study that was recently done archaeologists biologists recently done archaeologists biologists recently done archaeologists biologists and historians had identified about 50 and historians had identified about 50 and historians had identified about 50 sites of importance in this one area in sites of importance in this one area in sites of importance in this one area in Central America in a decade now it says Central America in a decade now it says Central America in a decade now it says there are more than 900 settlements that there are more than 900 settlements that there are more than 900 settlements that they've found that they couldn't even they've found that they couldn't even they've found that they couldn't even see without this technology and what see without this technology and what see without this technology and what it's doing and this ties into the idea it's doing and this ties into the idea it's doing and this ties into the idea of how you know there's a benefit even of how you know there's a benefit even of how you know there's a benefit even to the native populations uh to all of to the native populations uh to all of to the native populations uh to all of this what it's doing is completely this what it's doing is completely this what it's doing is completely revising the sophistication level of revising the sophistication level of revising the sophistication level of some of these places like Central some of these places like Central some of these places like Central America some of these places they found America some of these places they found America some of these places they found by Looking Through the Jungle are so by Looking Through the Jungle are so by Looking Through the Jungle are so large that the people that I was reading large that the people that I was reading large that the people that I was reading who wrote the story are saying that you who wrote the story are saying that you who wrote the story are saying that you have to reinvent evaluate how these have to reinvent evaluate how these have to reinvent evaluate how these Societies in mesoamerica compared to

Societies in mesoamerica compared to Societies in mesoamerica compared to what was going on in places like Europe what was going on in places like Europe what was going on in places like Europe or Western Asia or even China during the or Western Asia or even China during the or Western Asia or even China during the Middle Ages because they're every bit Middle Ages because they're every bit Middle Ages because they're every bit they're equal and maybe even larger and they're equal and maybe even larger and they're equal and maybe even larger and more sophisticated than those so this is more sophisticated than those so this is more sophisticated than those so this is a little bit about what the a little bit about what the a little bit about what the archaeologists who wrote my history of archaeologists who wrote my history of archaeologists who wrote my history of archeology book was talking about I mean archeology book was talking about I mean archeology book was talking about I mean this sort of archeology restores these this sort of archeology restores these this sort of archeology restores these places to their to their to the to the places to their to their to the to the places to their to their to the to the place that they belong I mean for place that they belong I mean for place that they belong I mean for example in Stephen's book he talks about example in Stephen's book he talks about example in Stephen's book he talks about the early excavations of some of these the early excavations of some of these the early excavations of some of these pyramids in Central America and it's pyramids in Central America and it's pyramids in Central America and it's very similar to what we had in in very similar to what we had in in very similar to what we had in in sub-Saharan Africa where in this era the sub-Saharan Africa where in this era the sub-Saharan Africa where in this era the archaeologists were not willing to give archaeologists were not willing to give archaeologists were not willing to give the locals credit for building such the locals credit for building such the locals credit for building such sophisticated sites and tried to you sophisticated sites and tried to you sophisticated sites and tried to you know find all sorts of of weird ways of know find all sorts of of weird ways of know find all sorts of of weird ways of of explaining how it might have happened of explaining how it might have happened of explaining how it might have happened not involving the people in the area and not involving the people in the area and not involving the people in the area and and of course they they fail to do that and of course they they fail to do that and of course they they fail to do that but for example he talks about this but for example he talks about this but for example he talks about this um Two Gentlemen by the way uh John um Two Gentlemen by the way uh John um Two Gentlemen by the way uh John Lloyd Stevens and Frederick catherwood Lloyd Stevens and Frederick catherwood Lloyd Stevens and Frederick catherwood were discovering some of these uh were discovering some of these uh were discovering some of these uh temples in the uh late 1800s I believe temples in the uh late 1800s I believe temples in the uh late 1800s I believe it was in places like mesoamerica and it was in places like mesoamerica and it was in places like mesoamerica and they found they found they found um it says as they began clearing some um it says as they began clearing some um it says as they began clearing some of the jungle growth they uncovered of the jungle growth they uncovered of the jungle growth they uncovered Stones steelies and portions of pyramids Stones steelies and portions of pyramids Stones steelies and portions of pyramids even more wonderful than they had even more wonderful than they had even more wonderful than they had imagined Stevens later described his imagined Stevens later described his imagined Stevens later described his thoughts at the moment and this is from thoughts at the moment and this is from thoughts at the moment and this is from his diary I think he says quote America his diary I think he says quote America his diary I think he says quote America say historians was peopled by Savages say historians was peopled by Savages say historians was peopled by Savages but Savages never reared these but Savages never reared these but Savages never reared these structures Savages never carved these

structures Savages never carved these structures Savages never carved these Stones we asked the Indians who made Stones we asked the Indians who made Stones we asked the Indians who made them and their dull answer was who knows them and their dull answer was who knows them and their dull answer was who knows there were no associations connected there were no associations connected there were no associations connected with this place none of those stirring with this place none of those stirring with this place none of those stirring Recollections which hallow Rome Athens Recollections which hallow Rome Athens Recollections which hallow Rome Athens and the world's great mistress on the and the world's great mistress on the and the world's great mistress on the Egyptian plain but architecture Egyptian plain but architecture Egyptian plain but architecture sculpture and painting all the Arts sculpture and painting all the Arts sculpture and painting all the Arts which embellish life had flourished in which embellish life had flourished in which embellish life had flourished in this overgrown Forest orators Warriors this overgrown Forest orators Warriors this overgrown Forest orators Warriors and Statesmen Beauty ambition and Glory and Statesmen Beauty ambition and Glory and Statesmen Beauty ambition and Glory had lived and passed away and none knew had lived and passed away and none knew had lived and passed away and none knew that such things had been or could tell that such things had been or could tell that such things had been or could tell of their past existence books he writes of their past existence books he writes of their past existence books he writes the records of knowledge are silent on the records of knowledge are silent on the records of knowledge are silent on these themes end quote we should point these themes end quote we should point these themes end quote we should point out by the way that one of the reasons out by the way that one of the reasons out by the way that one of the reasons they may be silent is because the early they may be silent is because the early they may be silent is because the early Christian priests often burned the Christian priests often burned the Christian priests often burned the records of the Maya and people like that records of the Maya and people like that records of the Maya and people like that when they found them early on yeah when they found them early on yeah when they found them early on yeah exactly exactly that's a very funny I exactly exactly that's a very funny I exactly exactly that's a very funny I can't believe you guys didn't preserve can't believe you guys didn't preserve can't believe you guys didn't preserve your history after he got burned and if your history after he got burned and if your history after he got burned and if you were found in possession of any of you were found in possession of any of you were found in possession of any of that you would you yourself were that you would you yourself were that you would you yourself were probably burned on the Public Square but probably burned on the Public Square but probably burned on the Public Square but yes I can't believe you didn't do it yes I can't believe you didn't do it yes I can't believe you didn't do it it's yeah that's that's it's a tiny bit it's yeah that's that's it's a tiny bit it's yeah that's that's it's a tiny bit tone deaf to say but you can see the tone deaf to say but you can see the tone deaf to say but you can see the trade-offs here for archeology even for trade-offs here for archeology even for trade-offs here for archeology even for some of the people whose whose sacred some of the people whose whose sacred some of the people whose whose sacred sites may be death desecrated it's part sites may be death desecrated it's part sites may be death desecrated it's part of restoring them to their proper place of restoring them to their proper place of restoring them to their proper place I mean it's it is a question of I mean it's it is a question of I mean it's it is a question of trade-offs isn't it yeah absolutely and

trade-offs isn't it yeah absolutely and trade-offs isn't it yeah absolutely and ultimately you know from a scientific ultimately you know from a scientific ultimately you know from a scientific standpoint all knowledge is good standpoint all knowledge is good standpoint all knowledge is good knowledge in that regard anything that knowledge in that regard anything that knowledge in that regard anything that we can discover helps uh clearly yeah we can discover helps uh clearly yeah we can discover helps uh clearly yeah one needs to be aware of the modern day one needs to be aware of the modern day one needs to be aware of the modern day controversy that one steps into with controversy that one steps into with controversy that one steps into with some of these things but ultimately some of these things but ultimately some of these things but ultimately history is history right so there's no history is history right so there's no history is history right so there's no such thing as bad information about the such thing as bad information about the such thing as bad information about the past as long as it's accurate and you do past as long as it's accurate and you do past as long as it's accurate and you do your best to cater to just not step on your best to cater to just not step on your best to cater to just not step on people's sensibility by digging the people's sensibility by digging the people's sensibility by digging the proverbial grammar you know you just proverbial grammar you know you just proverbial grammar you know you just make deals you try to convey the make deals you try to convey the make deals you try to convey the importance of these and ultimately importance of these and ultimately importance of these and ultimately because you know there's a PR job because you know there's a PR job because you know there's a PR job involved in this there's a convincing involved in this there's a convincing involved in this there's a convincing people that what you're doing is people that what you're doing is people that what you're doing is valuable that what the information the valuable that what the information the valuable that what the information the ud Gap is useful to them first and ud Gap is useful to them first and ud Gap is useful to them first and foremost and so you would want people to foremost and so you would want people to foremost and so you would want people to participate like for example there's one participate like for example there's one participate like for example there's one guy that I always I love this guy I did guy that I always I love this guy I did guy that I always I love this guy I did an episode about him at one point Joe an episode about him at one point Joe an episode about him at one point Joe Madison Crow he was the last man of the Madison Crow he was the last man of the Madison Crow he was the last man of the Crow tribe to ever become a war chief of Crow tribe to ever become a war chief of Crow tribe to ever become a war chief of the tribe by performing four Deeds they the tribe by performing four Deeds they the tribe by performing four Deeds they are supposed to be able to perform to be are supposed to be able to perform to be are supposed to be able to perform to be considered a war chief for the crows but considered a war chief for the crows but considered a war chief for the crows but he did it during World War II and one of he did it during World War II and one of he did it during World War II and one of them even included stealing horses from them even included stealing horses from them even included stealing horses from the Enemy at the time when he went into the Enemy at the time when he went into the Enemy at the time when he went into this French farm and was able to take a this French farm and was able to take a this French farm and was able to take a bunch of horses that the Nazis were bunch of horses that the Nazis were bunch of horses that the Nazis were using in any case Joe Madison Crow star using in any case Joe Madison Crow star using in any case Joe Madison Crow star is fantastic in itself there's a he has is fantastic in itself there's a he has is fantastic in itself there's a he has a clip in a camp Burns documentary where a clip in a camp Burns documentary where a clip in a camp Burns documentary where you can hear him talking about his you can hear him talking about his you can hear him talking about his experience at war was awesome but okay

experience at war was awesome but okay experience at war was awesome but okay that was a tangent back to the point Joe that was a tangent back to the point Joe that was a tangent back to the point Joe Madison Crow also was he had a master Madison Crow also was he had a master Madison Crow also was he had a master degree in anthropology and was well on degree in anthropology and was well on degree in anthropology and was well on his way of getting his PhD from USC when his way of getting his PhD from USC when his way of getting his PhD from USC when World War II broke out World War II broke out World War II broke out and afterwards after he came back from and afterwards after he came back from and afterwards after he came back from World War II he became a tribal World War II he became a tribal World War II he became a tribal historian both were very well steeped in historian both were very well steeped in historian both were very well steeped in his tribes tradition and history from his tribes tradition and history from his tribes tradition and history from purely the native oral history side as purely the native oral history side as purely the native oral history side as well as having a footing understanding well as having a footing understanding well as having a footing understanding archeology the advantages and the archeology the advantages and the archeology the advantages and the problems that comes with archeology and problems that comes with archeology and problems that comes with archeology and that way being able to negotiate between that way being able to negotiate between that way being able to negotiate between two different World Views and I think two different World Views and I think two different World Views and I think that's essential anytime you're talking that's essential anytime you're talking that's essential anytime you're talking about you know if you are not talking about you know if you are not talking about you know if you are not talking about thousands upon thousands of years about thousands upon thousands of years about thousands upon thousands of years ago where nobody has a claim where ago where nobody has a claim where ago where nobody has a claim where you're talking about things that are you're talking about things that are you're talking about things that are more recent then I think is very more recent then I think is very more recent then I think is very important to create those bridges important to create those bridges important to create those bridges well and as we said there's maybe a well and as we said there's maybe a well and as we said there's maybe a difference if you don't have ancestors difference if you don't have ancestors difference if you don't have ancestors bodies and tombs involved I mean I was bodies and tombs involved I mean I was bodies and tombs involved I mean I was reading a story the other day about reading a story the other day about reading a story the other day about something that I was completely ignorant something that I was completely ignorant something that I was completely ignorant about by the way uh known as the desert about by the way uh known as the desert about by the way uh known as the desert kite traps and this is something from kite traps and this is something from kite traps and this is something from pre-history but apparently there's like pre-history but apparently there's like pre-history but apparently there's like 6 000 of these things and they didn't 6 000 of these things and they didn't 6 000 of these things and they didn't discover any of them until uh until discover any of them until uh until discover any of them until uh until flight was invented because you can only flight was invented because you can only flight was invented because you can only see them from the air but what they are see them from the air but what they are see them from the air but what they are are these sometimes massive traps are these sometimes massive traps are these sometimes massive traps designed to Corner animals that you designed to Corner animals that you designed to Corner animals that you drive into the Trap and then at the very

drive into the Trap and then at the very drive into the Trap and then at the very end of the Trap I guess there are these end of the Trap I guess there are these end of the Trap I guess there are these killing pits and you're able to then killing pits and you're able to then killing pits and you're able to then drive the animals into it seems like a drive the animals into it seems like a drive the animals into it seems like a maze but it doesn't curl around in maze but it doesn't curl around in maze but it doesn't curl around in circles and stuff as much but once you circles and stuff as much but once you circles and stuff as much but once you get them into the entrance of this trap get them into the entrance of this trap get them into the entrance of this trap and keep driving them there's no escape and keep driving them there's no escape and keep driving them there's no escape and then they hit the killing pit and uh and then they hit the killing pit and uh and then they hit the killing pit and uh and all of a sudden everybody's eating and all of a sudden everybody's eating and all of a sudden everybody's eating for a long time afterwards but it's one for a long time afterwards but it's one for a long time afterwards but it's one of these things where not only are these of these things where not only are these of these things where not only are these sophisticated things that people did not sophisticated things that people did not sophisticated things that people did not think people in pre-history could do but think people in pre-history could do but think people in pre-history could do but the story I read the other day said that the story I read the other day said that the story I read the other day said that they think that they have found actual they think that they have found actual they think that they have found actual blueprints for these the the creation of blueprints for these the the creation of blueprints for these the the creation of these kite traps drawn to scale and they these kite traps drawn to scale and they these kite traps drawn to scale and they did not think that prehistoric man was did not think that prehistoric man was did not think that prehistoric man was was capable of drawing blueprints for was capable of drawing blueprints for was capable of drawing blueprints for structures that they eventually built to structures that they eventually built to structures that they eventually built to scale like that so once again we're scale like that so once again we're scale like that so once again we're learning more and more that our learning more and more that our learning more and more that our ancestors in the really deep dark past ancestors in the really deep dark past ancestors in the really deep dark past could do more than we thought they could could do more than we thought they could could do more than we thought they could do I mean just take a look at all of the do I mean just take a look at all of the do I mean just take a look at all of the information starting to come out in information starting to come out in information starting to come out in turkey at goblecki Tepe right turkey at goblecki Tepe right turkey at goblecki Tepe right absolutely that is one of those absolutely that is one of those absolutely that is one of those archaeological sites that has just blown archaeological sites that has just blown archaeological sites that has just blown away our understanding of the past and away our understanding of the past and away our understanding of the past and it's still we are trying to come to it's still we are trying to come to it's still we are trying to come to terms with the implications of it terms with the implications of it terms with the implications of it because traditionally what we have because traditionally what we have because traditionally what we have always believed was that hunting and always believed was that hunting and always believed was that hunting and Gathering culture where relatively small Gathering culture where relatively small Gathering culture where relatively small they involve small numbers of people and they involve small numbers of people and they involve small numbers of people and they could never mobilize the kind of they could never mobilize the kind of they could never mobilize the kind of Manpower needed to deal the Monumental Manpower needed to deal the Monumental Manpower needed to deal the Monumental architecture architecture architecture and then we come up with Robert which

and then we come up with Robert which and then we come up with Robert which changes everything because either like changes everything because either like changes everything because either like the current understanding is that this the current understanding is that this the current understanding is that this was built by hunting and Gathering was built by hunting and Gathering was built by hunting and Gathering people and yet is this extremely complex people and yet is this extremely complex people and yet is this extremely complex I would say some people call it a temple I would say some people call it a temple I would say some people call it a temple because they believed it as a religious because they believed it as a religious because they believed it as a religious importance there's all sort of importance there's all sort of importance there's all sort of disagreements regarding what exactly was disagreements regarding what exactly was disagreements regarding what exactly was but there's no disagreement regarding but there's no disagreement regarding but there's no disagreement regarding the incredible complexity required to the incredible complexity required to the incredible complexity required to build on the scale that they did and you build on the scale that they did and you build on the scale that they did and you know this flies in the face of know this flies in the face of know this flies in the face of everything we have ever assumed about everything we have ever assumed about everything we have ever assumed about hunters and gatherers and it's really hunters and gatherers and it's really hunters and gatherers and it's really forcing us to rewrite the history of our forcing us to rewrite the history of our forcing us to rewrite the history of our entire history in that regard it also entire history in that regard it also entire history in that regard it also complicates things because the older complicates things because the older complicates things because the older layer at the site are more sophisticated layer at the site are more sophisticated layer at the site are more sophisticated and the more recent ones and again we and the more recent ones and again we and the more recent ones and again we are used to thinking that sophistication are used to thinking that sophistication are used to thinking that sophistication is a straight line where we go from is a straight line where we go from is a straight line where we go from Simplicity to higher complexity and Simplicity to higher complexity and Simplicity to higher complexity and that's not the case we the first that's not the case we the first that's not the case we the first artifacts are incredible and then they artifacts are incredible and then they artifacts are incredible and then they get progressively worse over time and get progressively worse over time and get progressively worse over time and it's like wait why how could these it's like wait why how could these it's like wait why how could these people build it if they were hunters and people build it if they were hunters and people build it if they were hunters and gatherers back then why did their gatherers back then why did their gatherers back then why did their ability to put stuff together seem to ability to put stuff together seem to ability to put stuff together seem to decrease over you know it's really one decrease over you know it's really one decrease over you know it's really one of those discoveries that we are of those discoveries that we are of those discoveries that we are probably gonna still trying to figure it probably gonna still trying to figure it probably gonna still trying to figure it out a hundred years from now that was out a hundred years from now that was out a hundred years from now that was one of the concepts I remember reading one of the concepts I remember reading one of the concepts I remember reading in in uh steveling's book that blew me in in uh steveling's book that blew me in in uh steveling's book that blew me away because it reminded me of my Statue away because it reminded me of my Statue away because it reminded me of my Statue of Liberty and the sand idea he referred

of Liberty and the sand idea he referred of Liberty and the sand idea he referred to it as a controversy in archeology to it as a controversy in archeology to it as a controversy in archeology that's been solved now known as the that's been solved now known as the that's been solved now known as the unilinear concept this idea that you unilinear concept this idea that you unilinear concept this idea that you move and you alluded to this earlier move and you alluded to this earlier move and you alluded to this earlier that you moved from sort of barbarism to that you moved from sort of barbarism to that you moved from sort of barbarism to civilization and it's a one-way Street civilization and it's a one-way Street civilization and it's a one-way Street and he pointed out he was talking about and he pointed out he was talking about and he pointed out he was talking about and again this is in your area of and again this is in your area of and again this is in your area of expertise but he was talking about the expertise but he was talking about the expertise but he was talking about the North American mound builder culture and North American mound builder culture and North American mound builder culture and for those who don't know it's funny for those who don't know it's funny for those who don't know it's funny because it's a little reminds me a because it's a little reminds me a because it's a little reminds me a little of the step peoples who build little of the step peoples who build little of the step peoples who build their kurgans uh in Eurasia but there their kurgans uh in Eurasia but there their kurgans uh in Eurasia but there were these there were these mysterious were these there were these mysterious were these there were these mysterious mounds and I think Thomas Jefferson of mounds and I think Thomas Jefferson of mounds and I think Thomas Jefferson of all people was one of the really early all people was one of the really early all people was one of the really early guys to sort of dig into it to try to guys to sort of dig into it to try to guys to sort of dig into it to try to figure out what it was but when they did figure out what it was but when they did figure out what it was but when they did dig into it it didn't help them very dig into it it didn't help them very dig into it it didn't help them very much because they there is still ongoing much because they there is still ongoing much because they there is still ongoing trying to figure out what these mound trying to figure out what these mound trying to figure out what these mound builders whoever they may have been were builders whoever they may have been were builders whoever they may have been were and what Stephen says is is that they've and what Stephen says is is that they've and what Stephen says is is that they've they've confirmed now that the people they've confirmed now that the people they've confirmed now that the people who built these Mounds all over North who built these Mounds all over North who built these Mounds all over North America were more sophisticated than the America were more sophisticated than the America were more sophisticated than the people who came after them and because people who came after them and because people who came after them and because of that that unilinear concept the idea of that that unilinear concept the idea of that that unilinear concept the idea that you know technology and growth and that you know technology and growth and that you know technology and growth and civilization and capacity always moves civilization and capacity always moves civilization and capacity always moves in a straight line isn't true and that in a straight line isn't true and that in a straight line isn't true and that it can sort of Rise and Fall Decline and it can sort of Rise and Fall Decline and it can sort of Rise and Fall Decline and and fall kind of an idea the same way and fall kind of an idea the same way and fall kind of an idea the same way that you know and I love this story that you know and I love this story that you know and I love this story because I use it used it to Anchor our because I use it used it to Anchor our because I use it used it to Anchor our um our show on the Assyrians uh Judgment um our show on the Assyrians uh Judgment um our show on the Assyrians uh Judgment at Nineveh but the great line from at Nineveh but the great line from at Nineveh but the great line from xenophon and for those who don't know xenophon and for those who don't know xenophon and for those who don't know xenophon was an ancient Greek General xenophon was an ancient Greek General xenophon was an ancient Greek General who fought in a Persian Civil War he's who fought in a Persian Civil War he's who fought in a Persian Civil War he's sort of the key leader in in a story

sort of the key leader in in a story sort of the key leader in in a story that when I was a kid we all study that when I was a kid we all study that when I was a kid we all study called the the uh the uh the the the called the the uh the uh the the the called the the uh the uh the the the Flight of the ten thousand right the the Flight of the ten thousand right the the Flight of the ten thousand right the the famous ten thousand Greeks who were able famous ten thousand Greeks who were able famous ten thousand Greeks who were able to march away from the battlefield all to march away from the battlefield all to march away from the battlefield all the way back home to Greece Harry by the the way back home to Greece Harry by the the way back home to Greece Harry by the Persian army the whole way but in Persian army the whole way but in Persian army the whole way but in xenophon's writing he's writing about xenophon's writing he's writing about xenophon's writing he's writing about the various places that he and his the various places that he and his the various places that he and his troops come across during this flight troops come across during this flight troops come across during this flight from the Persians and at one point he he from the Persians and at one point he he from the Persians and at one point he he stumbles upon what I always refer to as stumbles upon what I always refer to as stumbles upon what I always refer to as ghost cities these these cities that are ghost cities these these cities that are ghost cities these these cities that are literally sort of turning to dust in the literally sort of turning to dust in the literally sort of turning to dust in the desert and he doesn't know what they are desert and he doesn't know what they are desert and he doesn't know what they are and they're grander than anything back and they're grander than anything back and they're grander than anything back in Greece so you look at these things in Greece so you look at these things in Greece so you look at these things and you're thinking okay here's a city and you're thinking okay here's a city and you're thinking okay here's a city that was inhabited in the past that's that was inhabited in the past that's that was inhabited in the past that's more sophisticated than what we have more sophisticated than what we have more sophisticated than what we have right now and he talked to the locals right now and he talked to the locals right now and he talked to the locals and said do you know anything about who and said do you know anything about who and said do you know anything about who built these and the locals didn't know built these and the locals didn't know built these and the locals didn't know and the Syria had built them but Assyria and the Syria had built them but Assyria and the Syria had built them but Assyria had only been gone about 200 years and had only been gone about 200 years and had only been gone about 200 years and already they'd forgotten who they were already they'd forgotten who they were already they'd forgotten who they were the cities are degenerating and the cities are degenerating and the cities are degenerating and eventually by the way when they find eventually by the way when they find eventually by the way when they find those in more modern times they look those in more modern times they look those in more modern times they look like hisser lick you know that like hisser lick you know that like hisser lick you know that schliemann uh uh had excavated with Troy schliemann uh uh had excavated with Troy schliemann uh uh had excavated with Troy they look like the kurgans I mean they they look like the kurgans I mean they they look like the kurgans I mean they turn to sort of mounds of material that turn to sort of mounds of material that turn to sort of mounds of material that look like natural Hills almost but when look like natural Hills almost but when look like natural Hills almost but when xenophon found this it became one of xenophon found this it became one of xenophon found this it became one of those examples of what I like to call those examples of what I like to call those examples of what I like to call the Statue of Liberty in the sand moment the Statue of Liberty in the sand moment the Statue of Liberty in the sand moment from the Planet of the Apes where all of from the Planet of the Apes where all of from the Planet of the Apes where all of a sudden you realize that there may have a sudden you realize that there may have a sudden you realize that there may have been a high water mark in civilization

been a high water mark in civilization been a high water mark in civilization in the past that's higher than the level in the past that's higher than the level in the past that's higher than the level you currently are you currently are you currently are yeah that I remember when you first yeah that I remember when you first yeah that I remember when you first managed from that story on an early managed from that story on an early managed from that story on an early episode of yours I love that story so episode of yours I love that story so episode of yours I love that story so much and I love the way you framed it much and I love the way you framed it much and I love the way you framed it too because I had read the xylophone and too because I had read the xylophone and too because I had read the xylophone and I read the same story but it didn't I read the same story but it didn't I read the same story but it didn't quite stick in my mind the way you quite stick in my mind the way you quite stick in my mind the way you described it after reading it from you I described it after reading it from you I described it after reading it from you I was like oh I need to dive back so that was like oh I need to dive back so that was like oh I need to dive back so that was actually an inspiration one of my was actually an inspiration one of my was actually an inspiration one of my very very early episodes I did a very very early episodes I did a very very early episodes I did a two-part series on the ten thousand and two-part series on the ten thousand and two-part series on the ten thousand and and xenophon and it was directly and xenophon and it was directly and xenophon and it was directly inspired by you telling that story inspired by you telling that story inspired by you telling that story because it is an iconic moment right it because it is an iconic moment right it because it is an iconic moment right it is uh you know think about xenophon is uh you know think about xenophon is uh you know think about xenophon we're talking so far back in the past we're talking so far back in the past we're talking so far back in the past compared to us and yet to him 200 years compared to us and yet to him 200 years compared to us and yet to him 200 years before was just as far back in the past before was just as far back in the past before was just as far back in the past if not more I mean we today know more if not more I mean we today know more if not more I mean we today know more about xenophon than he did about 200 about xenophon than he did about 200 about xenophon than he did about 200 years before and it's I don't know it's years before and it's I don't know it's years before and it's I don't know it's one of those mind-blowing moments in in one of those mind-blowing moments in in one of those mind-blowing moments in in ancient literature for sure ancient literature for sure ancient literature for sure okay let's move on to the ghost of okay let's move on to the ghost of okay let's move on to the ghost of archeology future right so the the idea archeology future right so the the idea archeology future right so the the idea of our Maybe of our Maybe of our Maybe as yet to be discovered things I mean we as yet to be discovered things I mean we as yet to be discovered things I mean we so so we've gone from you know inventing so so we've gone from you know inventing so so we've gone from you know inventing tools like radio carbon dating to the tools like radio carbon dating to the tools like radio carbon dating to the DNA technology to the isotope stuff DNA technology to the isotope stuff DNA technology to the isotope stuff which I was reading Cat jarman's book which I was reading Cat jarman's book which I was reading Cat jarman's book River Kings for the Viking show that River Kings for the Viking show that River Kings for the Viking show that we're doing and I was shocked by what

we're doing and I was shocked by what we're doing and I was shocked by what some of the isotope uh work does I mean some of the isotope uh work does I mean some of the isotope uh work does I mean you know she was talking about Vikings you know she was talking about Vikings you know she was talking about Vikings that they found in places like Ireland that they found in places like Ireland that they found in places like Ireland and England but they can do isotope work and England but they can do isotope work and England but they can do isotope work on them which shows what they ate when on them which shows what they ate when on them which shows what they ate when they were children growing up so they they were children growing up so they they were children growing up so they could say well this person may have been could say well this person may have been could say well this person may have been buried in England but they came from buried in England but they came from buried in England but they came from Scandinavia originally stuff like that Scandinavia originally stuff like that Scandinavia originally stuff like that to the lidar technology that we just to the lidar technology that we just to the lidar technology that we just mentioned I mean they're only going to mentioned I mean they're only going to mentioned I mean they're only going to invent more things in the future that invent more things in the future that invent more things in the future that help us so maybe we have a chance of help us so maybe we have a chance of help us so maybe we have a chance of finding some of our you know favorite finding some of our you know favorite finding some of our you know favorite things that we've been hoping for and things that we've been hoping for and things that we've been hoping for and you know me personally I've been hoping you know me personally I've been hoping you know me personally I've been hoping that they find Alexander and for people that they find Alexander and for people that they find Alexander and for people that don't yeah I mean is it that like that don't yeah I mean is it that like that don't yeah I mean is it that like so so people for people that don't know so so people for people that don't know so so people for people that don't know when Alexander the Great died who and he when Alexander the Great died who and he when Alexander the Great died who and he was in his early 30s which of course was in his early 30s which of course was in his early 30s which of course blows people away we when you realize blows people away we when you realize blows people away we when you realize that I love the story of you know that I love the story of you know that I love the story of you know whether it really happened or not of whether it really happened or not of whether it really happened or not of Julius Caesar crying at Alexander's Julius Caesar crying at Alexander's Julius Caesar crying at Alexander's statue because Alexander had already statue because Alexander had already statue because Alexander had already conquered the known world and Julius conquered the known world and Julius conquered the known world and Julius Caesar was already older than Alexander Caesar was already older than Alexander Caesar was already older than Alexander was when Alexander died but Alexander was when Alexander died but Alexander was when Alexander died but Alexander dies in Babylon nobody knows how that's dies in Babylon nobody knows how that's dies in Babylon nobody knows how that's one of the great Mysteries was he one of the great Mysteries was he one of the great Mysteries was he poisoned was it malaria was it I mean I poisoned was it malaria was it I mean I poisoned was it malaria was it I mean I even read one book that suggested it was even read one book that suggested it was even read one book that suggested it was West Nile virus from a mosquito another West Nile virus from a mosquito another West Nile virus from a mosquito another author had talked about the obvious author had talked about the obvious author had talked about the obvious alcoholism that he had and maybe it was alcoholism that he had and maybe it was alcoholism that he had and maybe it was that another of course theory is that he that another of course theory is that he that another of course theory is that he was assassinated because everybody was assassinated because everybody was assassinated because everybody wanted him dead because he was turning wanted him dead because he was turning wanted him dead because he was turning into like Hitler in the bunker type into like Hitler in the bunker type into like Hitler in the bunker type things killing everybody but once he things killing everybody but once he things killing everybody but once he died died died his body became sort of a symbol of his body became sort of a symbol of his body became sort of a symbol of rulership and all of his various

rulership and all of his various rulership and all of his various generals which split his Empire apart generals which split his Empire apart generals which split his Empire apart into multiple pieces wanted to get their into multiple pieces wanted to get their into multiple pieces wanted to get their hands on the body so I think that I'm hands on the body so I think that I'm hands on the body so I think that I'm going from memory here but I think they going from memory here but I think they going from memory here but I think they mummified it in like honey or something mummified it in like honey or something mummified it in like honey or something so that it wouldn't deteriorate build so that it wouldn't deteriorate build so that it wouldn't deteriorate build this giant this giant this giant um sort of a a caravan and a way to um sort of a a caravan and a way to um sort of a a caravan and a way to transport him back to Macedonia transport him back to Macedonia transport him back to Macedonia Macedonia and it was hijacked by one of Macedonia and it was hijacked by one of Macedonia and it was hijacked by one of his generals Ptolemy because you know his generals Ptolemy because you know his generals Ptolemy because you know whoever has the corpse is in you know whoever has the corpse is in you know whoever has the corpse is in you know possession is nine tenths of the law possession is nine tenths of the law possession is nine tenths of the law right and Ptolemy takes it back to right and Ptolemy takes it back to right and Ptolemy takes it back to Alexandria the city founded by Alexander Alexandria the city founded by Alexander Alexandria the city founded by Alexander puts it on display in a giant place like puts it on display in a giant place like puts it on display in a giant place like a mausoleum and it's on display for a mausoleum and it's on display for a mausoleum and it's on display for centuries I mean later Roman emperors centuries I mean later Roman emperors centuries I mean later Roman emperors would come and view it one supposedly would come and view it one supposedly would come and view it one supposedly knocked Alexander's nose off another knocked Alexander's nose off another knocked Alexander's nose off another supposedly stole his armor but then it supposedly stole his armor but then it supposedly stole his armor but then it disappears from history and no one knows disappears from history and no one knows disappears from history and no one knows what happened to it I remember when I what happened to it I remember when I what happened to it I remember when I was working at a news station in Los was working at a news station in Los was working at a news station in Los Angeles and I I was just a kid compared Angeles and I I was just a kid compared Angeles and I I was just a kid compared to the the producers and stuff there but to the the producers and stuff there but to the the producers and stuff there but a producer found out I was into a producer found out I was into a producer found out I was into Alexander and lent me a book she had you Alexander and lent me a book she had you Alexander and lent me a book she had you know and it's both one of the silliest know and it's both one of the silliest know and it's both one of the silliest books on Alexander I've ever read but books on Alexander I've ever read but books on Alexander I've ever read but one of the most interesting because one of the most interesting because one of the most interesting because there's a lot of books on the search for there's a lot of books on the search for there's a lot of books on the search for Alexander but this book was like they Alexander but this book was like they Alexander but this book was like they went and found a modern day psychic and went and found a modern day psychic and went and found a modern day psychic and had the psychic try to find Alexander had the psychic try to find Alexander had the psychic try to find Alexander and and so the book would mix like you and and so the book would mix like you and and so the book would mix like you know the latest information we know know the latest information we know know the latest information we know about where Alexander might be with the about where Alexander might be with the about where Alexander might be with the psychic stuff and it was so fascinating psychic stuff and it was so fascinating psychic stuff and it was so fascinating and so ever since I've just wondered and so ever since I've just wondered and so ever since I've just wondered where the heck is this honey preserved where the heck is this honey preserved where the heck is this honey preserved mummy that people looked at and were

mummy that people looked at and were mummy that people looked at and were able to view for centuries after he died able to view for centuries after he died able to view for centuries after he died that's just disappeared so so for me my that's just disappeared so so for me my that's just disappeared so so for me my favorite as to be discovered thing is favorite as to be discovered thing is favorite as to be discovered thing is where the heck is the body of Alexander where the heck is the body of Alexander where the heck is the body of Alexander the Great I can see why that would be the Great I can see why that would be the Great I can see why that would be fits with your interest and it's a fits with your interest and it's a fits with your interest and it's a powerful one for me I think one of the powerful one for me I think one of the powerful one for me I think one of the things that fascinates me and frustrates things that fascinates me and frustrates things that fascinates me and frustrates me as a somebody who loves history is me as a somebody who loves history is me as a somebody who loves history is the fact that what we know about human the fact that what we know about human the fact that what we know about human history is a tiny fraction compared to history is a tiny fraction compared to history is a tiny fraction compared to the time we have been on Earth and if I the time we have been on Earth and if I the time we have been on Earth and if I have to pick one thing one one place have to pick one thing one one place have to pick one thing one one place where I would love to see the spotlight where I would love to see the spotlight where I would love to see the spotlight in a shine a little clearer is what we in a shine a little clearer is what we in a shine a little clearer is what we would call prehistory you know the fact would call prehistory you know the fact would call prehistory you know the fact that nine depending on who you listen to that nine depending on who you listen to that nine depending on who you listen to anywhere between 90 to 99 percent of the anywhere between 90 to 99 percent of the anywhere between 90 to 99 percent of the time we have lived as small bands of time we have lived as small bands of time we have lived as small bands of hunters and gatherers with no writing hunters and gatherers with no writing hunters and gatherers with no writing leaving behind very little because so leaving behind very little because so leaving behind very little because so much of what we used was made of much of what we used was made of much of what we used was made of perishable materials that don't Preserve perishable materials that don't Preserve perishable materials that don't Preserve in the archaeological record in the archaeological record in the archaeological record so that would be something that whenever so that would be something that whenever so that would be something that whenever we can find you know because clearly we we can find you know because clearly we we can find you know because clearly we find less than from civilizations that find less than from civilizations that find less than from civilizations that I've uh Left Behind the massive I've uh Left Behind the massive I've uh Left Behind the massive buildings or things that tend to last in buildings or things that tend to last in buildings or things that tend to last in time time time but I would love to see something that but I would love to see something that but I would love to see something that allows us to reconstruct a little bit allows us to reconstruct a little bit allows us to reconstruct a little bit what life was like 10 000 years ago what life was like 10 000 years ago what life was like 10 000 years ago fifteen thousand years ago 20 000 years fifteen thousand years ago 20 000 years fifteen thousand years ago 20 000 years ago 50. you know all of that that would ago 50. you know all of that that would ago 50. you know all of that that would be if I have to pick if I have to limit

be if I have to pick if I have to limit be if I have to pick if I have to limit myself to one thing and you know I get myself to one thing and you know I get myself to one thing and you know I get the genie who tells me you go one wish the genie who tells me you go one wish the genie who tells me you go one wish that would be the area of history that I that would be the area of history that I that would be the area of history that I would like to know a whole lot more would like to know a whole lot more would like to know a whole lot more about about about do you think anybody's ever gonna dig up do you think anybody's ever gonna dig up do you think anybody's ever gonna dig up our ruins in the same way I mean I our ruins in the same way I mean I our ruins in the same way I mean I remember when I was doing one of the remember when I was doing one of the remember when I was doing one of the shows we did on nuclear weapons and I shows we did on nuclear weapons and I shows we did on nuclear weapons and I was reading you know accounts of some of was reading you know accounts of some of was reading you know accounts of some of these thinkers during the early nuclear these thinkers during the early nuclear these thinkers during the early nuclear period they were talking about how one period they were talking about how one period they were talking about how one of these days after a nuclear war when of these days after a nuclear war when of these days after a nuclear war when our society maybe returns to the way we our society maybe returns to the way we our society maybe returns to the way we were 15 or 20 000 years ago in terms of were 15 or 20 000 years ago in terms of were 15 or 20 000 years ago in terms of lifestyle and capability and capacity lifestyle and capability and capacity lifestyle and capability and capacity that somebody might eventually come back that somebody might eventually come back that somebody might eventually come back one civilization had risen up to the one civilization had risen up to the one civilization had risen up to the levels that had previously been right levels that had previously been right levels that had previously been right when when our own xenophon uh walks by when when our own xenophon uh walks by when when our own xenophon uh walks by and sees the ruins of our civilization and sees the ruins of our civilization and sees the ruins of our civilization and our skyscrapers are bigger than and our skyscrapers are bigger than and our skyscrapers are bigger than anything he could imagine will they one anything he could imagine will they one anything he could imagine will they one day be digging up our ruins does George day be digging up our ruins does George day be digging up our ruins does George Washington sleep in safety or are they Washington sleep in safety or are they Washington sleep in safety or are they going to be Excavating his tomb one of going to be Excavating his tomb one of going to be Excavating his tomb one of these days now George Washington is these days now George Washington is these days now George Washington is screwed they are definitely Excavating screwed they are definitely Excavating screwed they are definitely Excavating Stone but that's not even but also I Stone but that's not even but also I Stone but that's not even but also I think one of the big questions is the think one of the big questions is the think one of the big questions is the continuity or not with that because of continuity or not with that because of continuity or not with that because of course people are gonna want to find out course people are gonna want to find out course people are gonna want to find out regardless but whether you have a pretty regardless but whether you have a pretty regardless but whether you have a pretty good understanding of a culture because good understanding of a culture because good understanding of a culture because so much has been preserved and you just so much has been preserved and you just so much has been preserved and you just want to sort of dig the deeper layers or want to sort of dig the deeper layers or want to sort of dig the deeper layers or whether we have lost so much because whether we have lost so much because whether we have lost so much because again things don't always one of the again things don't always one of the again things don't always one of the rules of life is that hardly anything rules of life is that hardly anything rules of life is that hardly anything lasts forever so if much of the lasts forever so if much of the lasts forever so if much of the knowledge we currently have about who we

knowledge we currently have about who we knowledge we currently have about who we are today gets lost in to 300 500 a are today gets lost in to 300 500 a are today gets lost in to 300 500 a thousand years you know you can lengthen thousand years you know you can lengthen thousand years you know you can lengthen the scale and of course the bigger the the scale and of course the bigger the the scale and of course the bigger the scale the easier it is for all that scale the easier it is for all that scale the easier it is for all that information to get lost then it would be information to get lost then it would be information to get lost then it would be interesting because you could have the interesting because you could have the interesting because you could have the the person who has an archaeological the person who has an archaeological the person who has an archaeological being centuries from now Evin perhaps as being centuries from now Evin perhaps as being centuries from now Evin perhaps as little as an idea of who we are today as little as an idea of who we are today as little as an idea of who we are today as we do with people two thousand years ago we do with people two thousand years ago we do with people two thousand years ago and the Rosetta Stone of the future if and the Rosetta Stone of the future if and the Rosetta Stone of the future if they want to unlock our writings may they want to unlock our writings may they want to unlock our writings may have to have the source code for have to have the source code for have to have the source code for Microsoft Word written into it right Microsoft Word written into it right Microsoft Word written into it right exactly because you know think about it exactly because you know think about it exactly because you know think about it so much of what we have today is not so much of what we have today is not so much of what we have today is not Material you know we don't leave a piece Material you know we don't leave a piece Material you know we don't leave a piece of paper behind we don't leave something of paper behind we don't leave something of paper behind we don't leave something carved in stone it's all in in carved in stone it's all in in carved in stone it's all in in cyberspace so to speak so if you get rid cyberspace so to speak so if you get rid cyberspace so to speak so if you get rid of that well suddenly these guys didn't of that well suddenly these guys didn't of that well suddenly these guys didn't really write much no they did write a really write much no they did write a really write much no they did write a lot just not in a way that you can lot just not in a way that you can lot just not in a way that you can access access access my friend thank you so much for taking my friend thank you so much for taking my friend thank you so much for taking the time to talk with us today thank you the time to talk with us today thank you the time to talk with us today thank you always a pleasure to have a chance to always a pleasure to have a chance to always a pleasure to have a chance to sit down and chat with you thank you so sit down and chat with you thank you so sit down and chat with you thank you so much for having me so I did a speaking engagement one of my so I did a speaking engagement one of my rare speaking engagements at the end of rare speaking engagements at the end of rare speaking engagements at the end of January in Boston January in Boston January in Boston and at the end of the engagement there and at the end of the engagement there and at the end of the engagement there was a meet and greet where I got the was a meet and greet where I got the was a meet and greet where I got the chance to meet the attendees and talk to chance to meet the attendees and talk to chance to meet the attendees and talk to them and a Gentleman came up to me them and a Gentleman came up to me them and a Gentleman came up to me afterwards

afterwards afterwards identified himself as a businessman and identified himself as a businessman and identified himself as a businessman and said can I give you a friendly piece of said can I give you a friendly piece of said can I give you a friendly piece of advice advice advice he said now I know you shared news about he said now I know you shared news about he said now I know you shared news about this event on social media beforehand this event on social media beforehand this event on social media beforehand but I didn't hear about it and I follow but I didn't hear about it and I follow but I didn't hear about it and I follow you you you he said you need to find a way to be he said you need to find a way to be he said you need to find a way to be able to reach the people who like what able to reach the people who like what able to reach the people who like what you do directly when you have something you do directly when you have something you do directly when you have something that they would want to hear about that they would want to hear about that they would want to hear about and he suggested we explore and he suggested we explore and he suggested we explore really an archaic old-fashioned internet really an archaic old-fashioned internet really an archaic old-fashioned internet sort of Technology sort of Technology sort of Technology email newsletters email newsletters email newsletters and I thought about this on my way home and I thought about this on my way home and I thought about this on my way home on the flight and I was doing some on the flight and I was doing some on the flight and I was doing some research and trying to figure it out and research and trying to figure it out and research and trying to figure it out and what was involved and was it worth the what was involved and was it worth the what was involved and was it worth the trouble and all these kinds of things trouble and all these kinds of things trouble and all these kinds of things and when I sat down and discussed it and when I sat down and discussed it and when I sat down and discussed it with some friends one of them said to me with some friends one of them said to me with some friends one of them said to me well why are you trying to reinvent the well why are you trying to reinvent the well why are you trying to reinvent the wheel here with some old internet wheel here with some old internet wheel here with some old internet newsletter technology when there are newsletter technology when there are newsletter technology when there are companies today that do this and it's companies today that do this and it's companies today that do this and it's easy peasy it's all set up it's ready to easy peasy it's all set up it's ready to easy peasy it's all set up it's ready to go it takes very little effort it's go it takes very little effort it's go it takes very little effort it's easier on the user end of things why easier on the user end of things why easier on the user end of things why don't you just sign up with something don't you just sign up with something don't you just sign up with something like sub stack like sub stack like sub stack now for those of you who don't know now for those of you who don't know now for those of you who don't know about sub stack essentially part of what about sub stack essentially part of what about sub stack essentially part of what it does is what the old-fashioned email it does is what the old-fashioned email it does is what the old-fashioned email newsletters do so if you wanted to newsletters do so if you wanted to newsletters do so if you wanted to follow for example what we do you would follow for example what we do you would follow for example what we do you would go to sub stack essentially you give go to sub stack essentially you give go to sub stack essentially you give them your email address there's no them your email address there's no them your email address there's no credit cards or anything like that credit cards or anything like that credit cards or anything like that you're not paying for anything at least you're not paying for anything at least you're not paying for anything at least not with us and at least not right now not with us and at least not right now not with us and at least not right now um you give them your your email address

um you give them your your email address um you give them your your email address and then anytime we put out a and then anytime we put out a and then anytime we put out a notification maybe a new show drops notification maybe a new show drops notification maybe a new show drops maybe a new piece of merchandise becomes maybe a new piece of merchandise becomes maybe a new piece of merchandise becomes available maybe I'm doing an appearance available maybe I'm doing an appearance available maybe I'm doing an appearance somewhere you'll get an email about it somewhere you'll get an email about it somewhere you'll get an email about it and the email will say whatever we type and the email will say whatever we type and the email will say whatever we type into the text box to say into the text box to say into the text box to say now sub stack is set up mainly for now sub stack is set up mainly for now sub stack is set up mainly for writers to be able to make a living off writers to be able to make a living off writers to be able to make a living off their writing without having to be part their writing without having to be part their writing without having to be part of some giant firm right if you you work of some giant firm right if you you work of some giant firm right if you you work for the newspaper before but now you for the newspaper before but now you for the newspaper before but now you leave the newspaper now you write on sub leave the newspaper now you write on sub leave the newspaper now you write on sub stack they have a setup you know you stack they have a setup you know you stack they have a setup you know you switch a button and you can charge for switch a button and you can charge for switch a button and you can charge for your stories your stories your stories now maybe we'll do something like that now maybe we'll do something like that now maybe we'll do something like that someday but one of the great things someday but one of the great things someday but one of the great things about substack is that you can set that about substack is that you can set that about substack is that you can set that up and still not charge anything for the up and still not charge anything for the up and still not charge anything for the email newsletter side of things right so email newsletter side of things right so email newsletter side of things right so if I want to tell you about our if I want to tell you about our if I want to tell you about our merchandise that's always free if merchandise that's always free if merchandise that's always free if someday we're putting out two articles a someday we're putting out two articles a someday we're putting out two articles a week and we want to charge for that well week and we want to charge for that well week and we want to charge for that well we can flip a button and charge for that we can flip a button and charge for that we can flip a button and charge for that but the person who doesn't want to pay but the person who doesn't want to pay but the person who doesn't want to pay for that still gets the merchandise for that still gets the merchandise for that still gets the merchandise information or the new show drop information or the new show drop information or the new show drop information or the personal appearance information or the personal appearance information or the personal appearance information for free information for free information for free so we set up a substack page you can get so we set up a substack page you can get so we set up a substack page you can get to it off of our website we linked to it to it off of our website we linked to it to it off of our website we linked to it you can also just go to you can also just go to you can also just go to dancarlin.substack.com and sign up and then anytime we have and sign up and then anytime we have something to tell you for example a new something to tell you for example a new something to tell you for example a new show drops we will put it in the sub show drops we will put it in the sub show drops we will put it in the sub stack text box it will go out to you and stack text box it will go out to you and stack text box it will go out to you and you'll get an email about it a direct you'll get an email about it a direct you'll get an email about it a direct connection between us and you and maybe connection between us and you and maybe connection between us and you and maybe that way the next time we have something

that way the next time we have something that way the next time we have something we think you might like you won't miss we think you might like you won't miss we think you might like you won't miss it so check it out see what you think it so check it out see what you think it so check it out see what you think and just a reminder and just a reminder and just a reminder danielelli's wonderful history show danielelli's wonderful history show danielelli's wonderful history show history on fire now away from the history on fire now away from the history on fire now away from the paywall and available for free anywhere paywall and available for free anywhere paywall and available for free anywhere you normally get your podcasts he also you normally get your podcasts he also you normally get your podcasts he also has a sub stack account at substack.com has a sub stack account at substack.com has a sub stack account at substack.com forward slash at symbol Danielle forward slash at symbol Danielle forward slash at symbol Danielle ebullellelli that's ebullellelli that's ebullellelli that's [Music] d-a-n-i-e-l-e-b-o-l-e-l-l-i but I hope d-a-n-i-e-l-e-b-o-l-e-l-l-i but I hope you'll sign up for it I actually have a you'll sign up for it I actually have a you'll sign up for it I actually have a couple of things couple of things couple of things you know I didn't think I was going to you know I didn't think I was going to you know I didn't think I was going to write articles and stuff because I write articles and stuff because I write articles and stuff because I didn't know that I had anything to say didn't know that I had anything to say didn't know that I had anything to say but lo and behold if you go there I but lo and behold if you go there I but lo and behold if you go there I wrote a couple so maybe I was wrong wrote a couple so maybe I was wrong wrote a couple so maybe I was wrong about that and well one of them has some about that and well one of them has some about that and well one of them has some stuff about me wargaming with some stuff about me wargaming with some stuff about me wargaming with some photos teasing the audience there with photos teasing the audience there with photos teasing the audience there with some old photos another one has to do some old photos another one has to do some old photos another one has to do with pronunciations of you know the with pronunciations of you know the with pronunciations of you know the letter c and Latin and Greek which is letter c and Latin and Greek which is letter c and Latin and Greek which is you know a little you know a little you know a little point of contention sometimes with the point of contention sometimes with the point of contention sometimes with the listeners so maybe something worth listeners so maybe something worth listeners so maybe something worth checking out I hope you'll sign up and checking out I hope you'll sign up and checking out I hope you'll sign up and become part of you know what the become part of you know what the become part of you know what the listeners have named the hardcore listeners have named the hardcore listeners have named the hardcore dancarlin.substack.com Wrath of the cons Punic nightmares Wrath of the cons Punic nightmares Apache tears and of course ghost of the Apache tears and of course ghost of the Apache tears and of course ghost of the OST front just a few of the classic OST front just a few of the classic OST front just a few of the classic Hardcore History titles available from Hardcore History titles available from Hardcore History titles available from dancarlin.com every true fan has heard dancarlin.com every true fan has heard dancarlin.com every true fan has heard these favorites hey they make great these favorites hey they make great these favorites hey they make great gifts too