Dan Carlin’s Hardcore History 67 - Supernova in the East 6

what you're about to hear is part six of what you're about to hear is part six of a six-part series on the second world a six-part series on the second world a six-part series on the second world war in the Asia Pacific Theater if you war in the Asia Pacific Theater if you war in the Asia Pacific Theater if you have not heard the have not heard the have not heard the earlier segments please go check those earlier segments please go check those earlier segments please go check those out you probably want to hear this in out you probably want to hear this in out you probably want to hear this in order but there's a few of you out there order but there's a few of you out there order but there's a few of you out there who don't care about that sort of stuff who don't care about that sort of stuff who don't care about that sort of stuff in which case well catch up in which case well catch up in which case well catch up and join us won't you for part six of and join us won't you for part six of and join us won't you for part six of the light and Airy story that is the light and Airy story that is the light and Airy story that is Supernova in the Supernova in the Supernova in the East December 7 it's history 1941 a date which will 1941 a date which will live in infamy it's hardcore history people who are knowledgeable history people who are knowledgeable about the second world war and many about the second world war and many about the second world war and many people are it's one of those subjects people are it's one of those subjects people are it's one of those subjects that fascinates human beings the world that fascinates human beings the world that fascinates human beings the world over understandably over understandably over understandably so people who are afficionados of the so people who are afficionados of the so people who are afficionados of the second world war knows that the rhythm second world war knows that the rhythm second world war knows that the rhythm of the second world war reminds you of of the second world war reminds you of of the second world war reminds you of an opera or a musical theater production an opera or a musical theater production an opera or a musical theater production where the end is going to be like the where the end is going to be like the where the end is going to be like the end of the world a Ragnarok or a got end of the world a Ragnarok or a got end of the world a Ragnarok or a got damrong and the whole last year of the damrong and the whole last year of the damrong and the whole last year of the war is whipping yourself up like a war is whipping yourself up like a war is whipping yourself up like a roller coaster going uphill waiting for roller coaster going uphill waiting for roller coaster going uphill waiting for that giant dip where you're building up that giant dip where you're building up that giant dip where you're building up to that horrific to that horrific to that horrific ending the last year of the second world ending the last year of the second world ending the last year of the second world war is the worst year of the second war is the worst year of the second war is the worst year of the second World War and the kind of numbers that World War and the kind of numbers that World War and the kind of numbers that demonstrate that are for example

demonstrate that are for example demonstrate that are for example casualties killings look at the German casualties killings look at the German casualties killings look at the German deaths for example in January 1945 deaths for example in January 1945 deaths for example in January 1945 that's a month that is mind-blowing the that's a month that is mind-blowing the that's a month that is mind-blowing the Germans will have more than 400,000 of Germans will have more than 400,000 of Germans will have more than 400,000 of their soldiers maybe closer to 450,000 their soldiers maybe closer to 450,000 their soldiers maybe closer to 450,000 of their soldiers die in that month of their soldiers die in that month of their soldiers die in that month alone for comparison purposes that is alone for comparison purposes that is alone for comparison purposes that is more military deaths than the United more military deaths than the United more military deaths than the United States suffered all branches of service States suffered all branches of service States suffered all branches of service all cause of mortality for the whole all cause of mortality for the whole all cause of mortality for the whole world world world War historian Neil Ferguson says the War historian Neil Ferguson says the War historian Neil Ferguson says the German military loses more soldiers in German military loses more soldiers in German military loses more soldiers in the last year of the war than the entire the last year of the war than the entire the last year of the war than the entire rest of the war put together and some of rest of the war put together and some of rest of the war put together and some of the latest estimates of casualty num the latest estimates of casualty num the latest estimates of casualty num suggest the Germans were losing on suggest the Germans were losing on suggest the Germans were losing on average 10,000 soldiers every day in average 10,000 soldiers every day in average 10,000 soldiers every day in 1945 so from January 1st to May 8th when 1945 so from January 1st to May 8th when 1945 so from January 1st to May 8th when the war ended in Europe 10,000 a day on the war ended in Europe 10,000 a day on the war ended in Europe 10,000 a day on average that is almost twice as many average that is almost twice as many average that is almost twice as many people as the United States lost at the people as the United States lost at the people as the United States lost at the Battle of antium which many military Battle of antium which many military Battle of antium which many military historians consider to be the worst day historians consider to be the worst day historians consider to be the worst day in US military history and the Germans in US military history and the Germans in US military history and the Germans were getting it day after day after day if you think to yourself and if this day if you think to yourself and if this would be totally understandable who would be totally understandable who would be totally understandable who cares right the Germans are reaping what cares right the Germans are reaping what cares right the Germans are reaping what they sowed uh that would be fine except they sowed uh that would be fine except they sowed uh that would be fine except it's hardly just the Germans in his book it's hardly just the Germans in his book it's hardly just the Germans in his book how Wars end author Gideon Rose says how Wars end author Gideon Rose says how Wars end author Gideon Rose says that every month in that every month in that every month in 1945 between 100,000 and 1945 between 100,000 and 1945 between 100,000 and 250,000 non-combatants in Asia were 250,000 non-combatants in Asia were 250,000 non-combatants in Asia were dying again every month due to the dying again every month due to the dying again every month due to the actions of Japanese

actions of Japanese actions of Japanese forces these are data points but you forces these are data points but you forces these are data points but you have to add all the other data points up have to add all the other data points up have to add all the other data points up too and see the conveyor belt of death too and see the conveyor belt of death too and see the conveyor belt of death the factory assembly line of human the factory assembly line of human the factory assembly line of human destruction that's going on in 1945 or destruction that's going on in 1945 or destruction that's going on in 1945 or really the last year of the war I mean really the last year of the war I mean really the last year of the war I mean you don't have to really imagine too you don't have to really imagine too you don't have to really imagine too much to just know that the Holocaust is much to just know that the Holocaust is much to just know that the Holocaust is going on during this time period in going on during this time period in going on during this time period in Europe and people are dying in those Europe and people are dying in those Europe and people are dying in those camps every day so every day the war camps every day so every day the war camps every day so every day the war continues that tally goes up continues that tally goes up continues that tally goes up reliably I'm reminded of a song by the reliably I'm reminded of a song by the reliably I'm reminded of a song by the rock band the MC5 from the late 1960s rock band the MC5 from the late 1960s rock band the MC5 from the late 1960s early 1970s they wrote a song which I early 1970s they wrote a song which I early 1970s they wrote a song which I think is about the Vietnam War and it's think is about the Vietnam War and it's think is about the Vietnam War and it's entitled the human being entitled the human being entitled the human being lawnmower and to me the imagery as lawnmower and to me the imagery as lawnmower and to me the imagery as horrific as it is works better for the horrific as it is works better for the horrific as it is works better for the second world war and especially the end second world war and especially the end second world war and especially the end of the second world war than it does for of the second world war than it does for of the second world war than it does for Vietnam a lawnmower that cuts human Vietnam a lawnmower that cuts human Vietnam a lawnmower that cuts human beings instead of Blades of grass or an beings instead of Blades of grass or an beings instead of Blades of grass or an assembly line that's reliably heading assembly line that's reliably heading assembly line that's reliably heading towards a furnace or a chopping machine towards a furnace or a chopping machine towards a furnace or a chopping machine with people on it and when the lead with people on it and when the lead with people on it and when the lead singer would say the words the human singer would say the words the human singer would say the words the human being lawnmower he would emphasize what being lawnmower he would emphasize what being lawnmower he would emphasize what was going on by then saying chop chop was going on by then saying chop chop was going on by then saying chop chop chop chop chop human being lawnmower chop chop chop human being lawnmower chop chop chop human being lawnmower chop chop chop chop chop that's what's chop chop chop chop chop that's what's chop chop chop chop chop that's what's going on in the last year of the war so going on in the last year of the war so going on in the last year of the war so why is the last year of the war still why is the last year of the war still why is the last year of the war still going going going on Neil Ferguson in his book The War of on Neil Ferguson in his book The War of on Neil Ferguson in his book The War of the World quotes an age to us General the World quotes an age to us General the World quotes an age to us General Omar Bradley who is fighting the Third Omar Bradley who is fighting the Third Omar Bradley who is fighting the Third Reich in Europe and the aid made this Reich in Europe and the aid made this Reich in Europe and the aid made this statement Ferguson says at the end of

statement Ferguson says at the end of statement Ferguson says at the end of 1944 and the statement was quote if we 1944 and the statement was quote if we 1944 and the statement was quote if we were fighting reasonable people they were fighting reasonable people they were fighting reasonable people they would have surrendered long ago end would have surrendered long ago end would have surrendered long ago end quote but they're not fighting quote but they're not fighting quote but they're not fighting reasonable people clearly they're reasonable people clearly they're reasonable people clearly they're fighting a fanatical regime in the Third fighting a fanatical regime in the Third fighting a fanatical regime in the Third Reich which is committed to going down Reich which is committed to going down Reich which is committed to going down with the ship and taking the entire with the ship and taking the entire with the ship and taking the entire country down with them and the Japanese country down with them and the Japanese country down with them and the Japanese we've already pointed out to outside we've already pointed out to outside we've already pointed out to outside observers who are not Japanese it's observers who are not Japanese it's observers who are not Japanese it's always looked always looked always looked fanatical Hitler and his cohorts know fanatical Hitler and his cohorts know fanatical Hitler and his cohorts know that they're not surviving the post-war that they're not surviving the post-war that they're not surviving the post-war period regardless they're all going to period regardless they're all going to period regardless they're all going to hang at the end of a rope so maybe that hang at the end of a rope so maybe that hang at the end of a rope so maybe that influences their decision to take influences their decision to take influences their decision to take everything down with them his propaganda everything down with them his propaganda everything down with them his propaganda Minister Joseph Gobles had famously said Minister Joseph Gobles had famously said Minister Joseph Gobles had famously said if we have to leave we'll close the door if we have to leave we'll close the door if we have to leave we'll close the door behind us with a slam that all the world behind us with a slam that all the world behind us with a slam that all the world will will will hear pity that all the German civilians hear pity that all the German civilians hear pity that all the German civilians need to go with them need to go with them need to go with them and in the Japanese situation uh their and in the Japanese situation uh their and in the Japanese situation uh their military is planning for a last ditch military is planning for a last ditch military is planning for a last ditch stand on the home Islands if it comes to stand on the home Islands if it comes to stand on the home Islands if it comes to that the Army thinks they can put two that the Army thinks they can put two that the Army thinks they can put two and a half million Japanese soldiers and a half million Japanese soldiers and a half million Japanese soldiers into Japan's builtup cities and then add into Japan's builtup cities and then add into Japan's builtup cities and then add to those numbers with a ton of civilians to those numbers with a ton of civilians to those numbers with a ton of civilians that as we said in the last segment are that as we said in the last segment are that as we said in the last segment are training with bamboo Spears by this time training with bamboo Spears by this time training with bamboo Spears by this time and make life impossible for an invading and make life impossible for an invading and make life impossible for an invading Army what's the goal what's the end game Army what's the goal what's the end game Army what's the goal what's the end game game well both the Germans and the game well both the Germans and the game well both the Germans and the Japanese are hoping to inflict a last Japanese are hoping to inflict a last Japanese are hoping to inflict a last big blow against their enemies that

big blow against their enemies that big blow against their enemies that causes their enemies to rethink the causes their enemies to rethink the causes their enemies to rethink the peace terms because as you know even a peace terms because as you know even a peace terms because as you know even a cursory understanding of the second cursory understanding of the second cursory understanding of the second world war makes clear the peace terms world war makes clear the peace terms world war makes clear the peace terms are unconditional surrender and the are unconditional surrender and the are unconditional surrender and the reason we know that is the Allies made reason we know that is the Allies made reason we know that is the Allies made an attempt to broadcast this make it an attempt to broadcast this make it an attempt to broadcast this make it known to everybody the terms are you known to everybody the terms are you known to everybody the terms are you give up and then we decide what we're give up and then we decide what we're give up and then we decide what we're going to do to going to do to going to do to you now this is controversial after all you now this is controversial after all you now this is controversial after all if the terms of surrender are going to if the terms of surrender are going to if the terms of surrender are going to be that harsh the Axis powers are going be that harsh the Axis powers are going be that harsh the Axis powers are going to fight longer than they otherwise to fight longer than they otherwise to fight longer than they otherwise might which means the human being might which means the human being might which means the human being lawnmower the conveyor belt of lawnmower the conveyor belt of lawnmower the conveyor belt of Destruction continues longer the Destruction continues longer the Destruction continues longer the Holocaust goes on longer the Asian Holocaust goes on longer the Asian Holocaust goes on longer the Asian civilians die you know more day I mean civilians die you know more day I mean civilians die you know more day I mean just it's just it's just it's controversial but there's an attitude if controversial but there's an attitude if controversial but there's an attitude if you look at the sources that you need an you look at the sources that you need an you look at the sources that you need an unconditional surrender if you're going unconditional surrender if you're going unconditional surrender if you're going to finally end this recurring problem to finally end this recurring problem to finally end this recurring problem and the Germans especially are seen as a and the Germans especially are seen as a and the Germans especially are seen as a recurring problem my stepfather who was recurring problem my stepfather who was recurring problem my stepfather who was half German by ancestry had said look at half German by ancestry had said look at half German by ancestry had said look at the German history over the past hundred the German history over the past hundred the German history over the past hundred years right the Franco Prussian War the years right the Franco Prussian War the years right the Franco Prussian War the first world war the second world war first world war the second world war first world war the second world war that is three generations of German that is three generations of German that is three generations of German youth going off to fight in wars that youth going off to fight in wars that youth going off to fight in wars that destabilize the International System destabilize the International System destabilize the International System Frank Roosevelt thought it was Prussian Frank Roosevelt thought it was Prussian Frank Roosevelt thought it was Prussian or junker militarism that was at fault or junker militarism that was at fault or junker militarism that was at fault and that countries needed to have and that countries needed to have and that countries needed to have finally this tendency rooted out of them

finally this tendency rooted out of them finally this tendency rooted out of them and to do that a free hand would be and to do that a free hand would be and to do that a free hand would be necessary you couldn't have some sort of necessary you couldn't have some sort of necessary you couldn't have some sort of deal like the deal that ended the first deal like the deal that ended the first deal like the deal that ended the first world war you needed the ability to world war you needed the ability to world war you needed the ability to remake these societies to finally end remake these societies to finally end remake these societies to finally end the repeat offender status of some of the repeat offender status of some of the repeat offender status of some of these places right who would upset the these places right who would upset the these places right who would upset the Peace of the world so for many people it Peace of the world so for many people it Peace of the world so for many people it was this view that the entire sacrifice was this view that the entire sacrifice was this view that the entire sacrifice of all three of those Wars but of all three of those Wars but of all three of those Wars but especially the second world war would be especially the second world war would be especially the second world war would be in vain if it didn't end the right way in vain if it didn't end the right way in vain if it didn't end the right way there's a quote from assistant US there's a quote from assistant US there's a quote from assistant US Secretary of State Breen Ridge long Secretary of State Breen Ridge long Secretary of State Breen Ridge long that's used in Gideon Rose's book where that's used in Gideon Rose's book where that's used in Gideon Rose's book where he says quote we are fighting this war he says quote we are fighting this war he says quote we are fighting this war because we did not have an unconditional because we did not have an unconditional because we did not have an unconditional surrender at the end of the last one end surrender at the end of the last one end surrender at the end of the last one end quote it's controversial though and quote it's controversial though and quote it's controversial though and people like Winston Churchill sometimes people like Winston Churchill sometimes people like Winston Churchill sometimes seem to seem to seem to vary in his views that you find on vary in his views that you find on vary in his views that you find on whether or not he was for it or open to whether or not he was for it or open to whether or not he was for it or open to uh some sort of conditional piece in his uh some sort of conditional piece in his uh some sort of conditional piece in his book series the second world war which book series the second world war which book series the second world war which cannot be taken as gospel truth you know cannot be taken as gospel truth you know cannot be taken as gospel truth you know you take it with a grain of salt because you take it with a grain of salt because you take it with a grain of salt because he's he's bolstering his own post-war he's he's bolstering his own post-war he's he's bolstering his own post-war image but he knows that unconditional image but he knows that unconditional image but he knows that unconditional surrender is controversial so he tries surrender is controversial so he tries surrender is controversial so he tries to defend it and he says that they tried to defend it and he says that they tried to defend it and he says that they tried to sit down and come up with conditional to sit down and come up with conditional to sit down and come up with conditional terms right if if it was not going to be terms right if if it was not going to be terms right if if it was not going to be uncondition conditional what should the uncondition conditional what should the uncondition conditional what should the surrender terms be and he wrote quote surrender terms be and he wrote quote surrender terms be and he wrote quote they looked so terrible when set forth they looked so terrible when set forth they looked so terrible when set forth on paper and so far exceeded what was in on paper and so far exceeded what was in on paper and so far exceeded what was in fact done that their publication would

fact done that their publication would fact done that their publication would only have stimulated German resistance only have stimulated German resistance only have stimulated German resistance they had in fact only to be written out they had in fact only to be written out they had in fact only to be written out to be withdrawn end to be withdrawn end to be withdrawn end quote we should also recall that there quote we should also recall that there quote we should also recall that there were political reasons in the Allied were political reasons in the Allied were political reasons in the Allied Alliance for doing this too the Soviets Alliance for doing this too the Soviets Alliance for doing this too the Soviets were very suspicious that the Western were very suspicious that the Western were very suspicious that the Western allies would cut a separate deal with allies would cut a separate deal with allies would cut a separate deal with gery and sort of leave them in the Lurch gery and sort of leave them in the Lurch gery and sort of leave them in the Lurch a an announced public pledge for an a an announced public pledge for an a an announced public pledge for an unconditional surrender helped bind all unconditional surrender helped bind all unconditional surrender helped bind all the Allies together in a United cause the Allies together in a United cause the Allies together in a United cause right no one's going to make A Separate right no one's going to make A Separate right no one's going to make A Separate Peace but it meant the war would go on Peace but it meant the war would go on Peace but it meant the war would go on longer and both Japan and Germany were longer and both Japan and Germany were longer and both Japan and Germany were hoping for some sort of last ditch punch hoping for some sort of last ditch punch hoping for some sort of last ditch punch in the nose that would wake the Allies in the nose that would wake the Allies in the nose that would wake the Allies up to the fact that you know this war up to the fact that you know this war up to the fact that you know this war could continue for years if you didn't could continue for years if you didn't could continue for years if you didn't come up with a better peace deal I mean come up with a better peace deal I mean come up with a better peace deal I mean that's really what something like the that's really what something like the that's really what something like the Battle of the Bulge the Second Battle of Battle of the Bulge the Second Battle of Battle of the Bulge the Second Battle of the ardan in 1944 that could be the only the ardan in 1944 that could be the only the ardan in 1944 that could be the only reason to do that because there was no reason to do that because there was no reason to do that because there was no war-winning element to that the whole war-winning element to that the whole war-winning element to that the whole point was to do such damage and maybe point was to do such damage and maybe point was to do such damage and maybe have a whole bunch of Allied troops sort have a whole bunch of Allied troops sort have a whole bunch of Allied troops sort of surrounded and endangered so you of surrounded and endangered so you of surrounded and endangered so you could maybe bargain with them and in could maybe bargain with them and in could maybe bargain with them and in Japan they were continually looking for Japan they were continually looking for Japan they were continually looking for the last great battle that would help the last great battle that would help the last great battle that would help wake the Allies up to the idea that wake the Allies up to the idea that wake the Allies up to the idea that unconditional surrender was a bridge to unconditional surrender was a bridge to unconditional surrender was a bridge to to far when last we spoke we were to far when last we spoke we were to far when last we spoke we were talking about the Battle of cpan in July talking about the Battle of cpan in July talking about the Battle of cpan in July 1944 well the Navy the Japanese Navy had 1944 well the Navy the Japanese Navy had 1944 well the Navy the Japanese Navy had thought that the war had been decided

thought that the war had been decided thought that the war had been decided some of the naval experts after the some of the naval experts after the some of the naval experts after the battle of guad canal and most of the battle of guad canal and most of the battle of guad canal and most of the rest at least after the Battle of Midway rest at least after the Battle of Midway rest at least after the Battle of Midway in the Japanese War Journal of Imperial in the Japanese War Journal of Imperial in the Japanese War Journal of Imperial headquarters quoted in Richard B Frank's headquarters quoted in Richard B Frank's headquarters quoted in Richard B Frank's book book book downfall uh they were very open and is downfall uh they were very open and is downfall uh they were very open and is official that the war was over in terms official that the war was over in terms official that the war was over in terms of who was going to win and it said of who was going to win and it said of who was going to win and it said quote we can no longer direct the war quote we can no longer direct the war quote we can no longer direct the war with any hope of success the only course with any hope of success the only course with any hope of success the only course left is for Japan's 100 million people left is for Japan's 100 million people left is for Japan's 100 million people to sacrifice their lives by charging the to sacrifice their lives by charging the to sacrifice their lives by charging the enemy to make them lose the will to enemy to make them lose the will to enemy to make them lose the will to fight end fight end fight end quote that is an amazing statement we quote that is an amazing statement we quote that is an amazing statement we will sacrifice all the people in this will sacrifice all the people in this will sacrifice all the people in this country to get a better deal than country to get a better deal than country to get a better deal than unconditional surrender unconditional surrender unconditional surrender and what was it that the Japanese really and what was it that the Japanese really and what was it that the Japanese really were holding out for the were holding out for the were holding out for the emperor they were worried that an emperor they were worried that an emperor they were worried that an unconditional surrender might mean that unconditional surrender might mean that unconditional surrender might mean that the emperor and the entire imperial the emperor and the entire imperial the emperor and the entire imperial system would be tossed out and this was system would be tossed out and this was system would be tossed out and this was something they could not live with something they could not live with something they could not live with what's more the idea that the emperor what's more the idea that the emperor what's more the idea that the emperor might be treated as a war criminal and might be treated as a war criminal and might be treated as a war criminal and might be hung or something after the war might be hung or something after the war might be hung or something after the war was intolerable to a ton of Japanese was intolerable to a ton of Japanese was intolerable to a ton of Japanese people including a ton of civilians I people including a ton of civilians I people including a ton of civilians I mean remember there's a decent number of mean remember there's a decent number of mean remember there's a decent number of Japanese folk who consider this person a Japanese folk who consider this person a Japanese folk who consider this person a living God his voice has never even been living God his voice has never even been living God his voice has never even been heard by the public I mean there's a heard by the public I mean there's a heard by the public I mean there's a whole lot of stuff that makes this an whole lot of stuff that makes this an whole lot of stuff that makes this an almost superhuman figure and the idea

almost superhuman figure and the idea almost superhuman figure and the idea that the country might have to lose that the country might have to lose that the country might have to lose there really weren't 100 million people there really weren't 100 million people there really weren't 100 million people in Japan it's more like 70 or 75 million in Japan it's more like 70 or 75 million in Japan it's more like 70 or 75 million but I mean that you might have to but I mean that you might have to but I mean that you might have to sacrifice that to keep one guy on the sacrifice that to keep one guy on the sacrifice that to keep one guy on the throne wow that's well if we were throne wow that's well if we were throne wow that's well if we were fighting reasonable people it would have fighting reasonable people it would have fighting reasonable people it would have been over already been over already been over already this is not reasonable I read a couple this is not reasonable I read a couple this is not reasonable I read a couple of different takes on this that of different takes on this that of different takes on this that suggested it was a lot more than the suggested it was a lot more than the suggested it was a lot more than the emperor this is the imperial system emperor this is the imperial system emperor this is the imperial system which includes a lot of what we would which includes a lot of what we would which includes a lot of what we would call the oligarchy or the Old Guard call the oligarchy or the Old Guard call the oligarchy or the Old Guard there's a lot of people who have a stake there's a lot of people who have a stake there's a lot of people who have a stake in the imperial system and they would in the imperial system and they would in the imperial system and they would all be thrown to the Wolves if this went all be thrown to the Wolves if this went all be thrown to the Wolves if this went away but it would seem to be the kind of away but it would seem to be the kind of away but it would seem to be the kind of thing where you're going to keep the thing where you're going to keep the thing where you're going to keep the human being lawnmower operating at break human being lawnmower operating at break human being lawnmower operating at break neck speed to keep a single guy from The neck speed to keep a single guy from The neck speed to keep a single guy from The Gallows after the war Gallows after the war Gallows after the war maybe the problem Japan has is different maybe the problem Japan has is different maybe the problem Japan has is different than Germany because one of the things than Germany because one of the things than Germany because one of the things we said at the end of the last segment we said at the end of the last segment we said at the end of the last segment was that the famous plot against Adolf was that the famous plot against Adolf was that the famous plot against Adolf Hitler on July 20th operation Valkyrie Hitler on July 20th operation Valkyrie Hitler on July 20th operation Valkyrie where a bomb exploded in a meeting room where a bomb exploded in a meeting room where a bomb exploded in a meeting room attempting to take Hitler out well attempting to take Hitler out well attempting to take Hitler out well that's an attempt to get rid of The that's an attempt to get rid of The that's an attempt to get rid of The Fanatic in Chief right I mean as I said Fanatic in Chief right I mean as I said Fanatic in Chief right I mean as I said if we were fighting reasonable people if we were fighting reasonable people if we were fighting reasonable people the war would be over long ago but in the war would be over long ago but in the war would be over long ago but in Germany you got rid you have to get rid Germany you got rid you have to get rid Germany you got rid you have to get rid of the unreasonable person at the top to of the unreasonable person at the top to of the unreasonable person at the top to have a chance to do that Japan's have a chance to do that Japan's have a chance to do that Japan's government's very government's very government's very different it's hard to put your finger different it's hard to put your finger different it's hard to put your finger on who's in charge and we we dealt with on who's in charge and we we dealt with on who's in charge and we we dealt with this extensively in the first segment of this extensively in the first segment of this extensively in the first segment of the program pointing out that Japan's the program pointing out that Japan's the program pointing out that Japan's system was one that Outsiders certainly system was one that Outsiders certainly system was one that Outsiders certainly but even insiders sometimes could have a

but even insiders sometimes could have a but even insiders sometimes could have a tough time figuring where the buck stops tough time figuring where the buck stops tough time figuring where the buck stops author Ian W tol had written um a line author Ian W tol had written um a line author Ian W tol had written um a line that just uh I think was a perfect that just uh I think was a perfect that just uh I think was a perfect summation of that where he said quote summation of that where he said quote summation of that where he said quote the same institutional defects that had the same institutional defects that had the same institutional defects that had produced Japan's irrational decision to produced Japan's irrational decision to produced Japan's irrational decision to launch the war in launch the war in launch the war in 1941 now prevented a rational decision 1941 now prevented a rational decision 1941 now prevented a rational decision to end it end to end it end to end it end quote and SCM Payne in his book The Wars quote and SCM Payne in his book The Wars quote and SCM Payne in his book The Wars for Asia 1911 for Asia 1911 for Asia 1911 1945 had said um that Japan's government 1945 had said um that Japan's government 1945 had said um that Japan's government had been called a government by had been called a government by had been called a government by acquiescence or a system of acquiescence or a system of acquiescence or a system of irresponsibility and he said quote irresponsibility and he said quote irresponsibility and he said quote because if everyone is responsible for because if everyone is responsible for because if everyone is responsible for policy then policy formation becomes policy then policy formation becomes policy then policy formation becomes Anonymous so that no one is actually Anonymous so that no one is actually Anonymous so that no one is actually held accountable the primary value held accountable the primary value held accountable the primary value emphasized in decision- making was a emphasized in decision- making was a emphasized in decision- making was a consensus reached through informal consensus reached through informal consensus reached through informal procedures end quote a consensus that procedures end quote a consensus that procedures end quote a consensus that required the most DieHard fanatical required the most DieHard fanatical required the most DieHard fanatical elements of the military to be on board elements of the military to be on board elements of the military to be on board and at least the Army was and at least the Army was and at least the Army was not and this by the way is why everybody not and this by the way is why everybody not and this by the way is why everybody spends so much time talking about the spends so much time talking about the spends so much time talking about the 19th century development of the Japanese 19th century development of the Japanese 19th century development of the Japanese constitutional system design and constitutional system design and constitutional system design and everything um to get us to the second everything um to get us to the second everything um to get us to the second world war because the second world wars world war because the second world wars world war because the second world wars where a couple of major things happen where a couple of major things happen where a couple of major things happen where you just go um it's almost like a where you just go um it's almost like a where you just go um it's almost like a tragic flaw in Greek Theater where there tragic flaw in Greek Theater where there tragic flaw in Greek Theater where there it was built into the Japanese system a it was built into the Japanese system a it was built into the Japanese system a long time ago and it only comes out when long time ago and it only comes out when long time ago and it only comes out when the system's under massive stress like

the system's under massive stress like the system's under massive stress like you know a World War but the fact that you know a World War but the fact that you know a World War but the fact that the Army and Navy for example have an the Army and Navy for example have an the Army and Navy for example have an outsize amount of control and influence outsize amount of control and influence outsize amount of control and influence tends to bend the decision making in a tends to bend the decision making in a tends to bend the decision making in a more Hardline sort of way and people who more Hardline sort of way and people who more Hardline sort of way and people who want to talk about peace actually put want to talk about peace actually put want to talk about peace actually put their own lives in in danger to do so so their own lives in in danger to do so so their own lives in in danger to do so so in both Germany and Japan as the war in both Germany and Japan as the war in both Germany and Japan as the war starts to grind into the last year starts to grind into the last year starts to grind into the last year anybody who tries to bring up the idea anybody who tries to bring up the idea anybody who tries to bring up the idea of peace or who suggests that the war of peace or who suggests that the war of peace or who suggests that the war may be lost are enemies of the regime in may be lost are enemies of the regime in may be lost are enemies of the regime in Germany uh in the last year of the war Germany uh in the last year of the war Germany uh in the last year of the war between 10 and 20,000 people I read were between 10 and 20,000 people I read were between 10 and 20,000 people I read were hung or executed in some other way hung or executed in some other way hung or executed in some other way soldiers and civilians alike on charges soldiers and civilians alike on charges soldiers and civilians alike on charges of what was called defeated of what was called defeated of what was called defeated m in Japan Marius B Jensen the historian m in Japan Marius B Jensen the historian m in Japan Marius B Jensen the historian says that the military uh was watching says that the military uh was watching says that the military uh was watching the people and uh had jailed some people the people and uh had jailed some people the people and uh had jailed some people for highlevel defeatism as it was called for highlevel defeatism as it was called for highlevel defeatism as it was called and Saburo yanaga in his book The and Saburo yanaga in his book The and Saburo yanaga in his book The Pacific War talked about how careful Pacific War talked about how careful Pacific War talked about how careful those were his translated words peace those were his translated words peace those were his translated words peace advocates in the government had to be he advocates in the government had to be he advocates in the government had to be he says that they faced assassination or a says that they faced assassination or a says that they faced assassination or a coup and he blames the Army but that's coup and he blames the Army but that's coup and he blames the Army but that's who he blames for a lot of of things the who he blames for a lot of of things the who he blames for a lot of of things the point being that even bringing up what point being that even bringing up what point being that even bringing up what might be a rational question like do we might be a rational question like do we might be a rational question like do we have to have Armageddon is that the way have to have Armageddon is that the way have to have Armageddon is that the way this whole thing has to go could get you this whole thing has to go could get you this whole thing has to go could get you charged as An Enemy of the State and in charged as An Enemy of the State and in charged as An Enemy of the State and in a place like Germany it could get you a place like Germany it could get you a place like Germany it could get you hung so rationality isn't just in short

hung so rationality isn't just in short hung so rationality isn't just in short supply it's actively punished by supply it's actively punished by supply it's actively punished by death I keep thinking of uh both the death I keep thinking of uh both the death I keep thinking of uh both the average Japanese person who may or may average Japanese person who may or may average Japanese person who may or may not have wanted to die for the emperor not have wanted to die for the emperor not have wanted to die for the emperor um are they looking forward to actually um are they looking forward to actually um are they looking forward to actually taking up arms with their their their taking up arms with their their their taking up arms with their their their women and children and fighting women and children and fighting women and children and fighting alongside the Japanese Army and the alongside the Japanese Army and the alongside the Japanese Army and the builtup areas of Japan and hous to house builtup areas of Japan and hous to house builtup areas of Japan and hous to house hand-to-hand combat against the Allied hand-to-hand combat against the Allied hand-to-hand combat against the Allied Forces something tells me um they're Forces something tells me um they're Forces something tells me um they're going to be a lot of regular Japanese going to be a lot of regular Japanese going to be a lot of regular Japanese folks who would see that as a failure of folks who would see that as a failure of folks who would see that as a failure of government and once again there are government and once again there are government and once again there are going to be people who say well then going to be people who say well then going to be people who say well then they shouldn't have started the war they they shouldn't have started the war they they shouldn't have started the war they shouldn't have mistreated all of the shouldn't have mistreated all of the shouldn't have mistreated all of the populations they dealt with so much populations they dealt with so much populations they dealt with so much which is a fair point but let's remember which is a fair point but let's remember which is a fair point but let's remember that if the Japanese are going to die that if the Japanese are going to die that if the Japanese are going to die because they're going to have to be because they're going to have to be because they're going to have to be rooted out of all these buildings rooted out of all these buildings rooted out of all these buildings somebody's going to have to do the somebody's going to have to do the somebody's going to have to do the rooting rooting rooting out and this is what my stepfather was out and this is what my stepfather was out and this is what my stepfather was referring to once when he he talked to referring to once when he he talked to referring to once when he he talked to me about how it was a kind of a double- me about how it was a kind of a double- me about how it was a kind of a double- edge sword reading in the newspapers edge sword reading in the newspapers edge sword reading in the newspapers about how well the war was going because about how well the war was going because about how well the war was going because my stepdad's a guy who got into the my stepdad's a guy who got into the my stepdad's a guy who got into the second world war at the real tail end of second world war at the real tail end of second world war at the real tail end of it so had there been a it so had there been a it so had there been a 1946 uh continuation of the war that's 1946 uh continuation of the war that's 1946 uh continuation of the war that's when he would have been been in the when he would have been been in the when he would have been been in the thick of it so like a lot of people by thick of it so like a lot of people by thick of it so like a lot of people by the end of the war he was kind of trying the end of the war he was kind of trying the end of the war he was kind of trying to time it out in his head right is this to time it out in his head right is this to time it out in his head right is this thing going to be over before I'm on the thing going to be over before I'm on the thing going to be over before I'm on the Frontline areas he was a naval guy but Frontline areas he was a naval guy but Frontline areas he was a naval guy but the Frontline areas was right off the the Frontline areas was right off the the Frontline areas was right off the coast of Japan if there was 1946 coast of Japan if there was 1946 coast of Japan if there was 1946 fighting and he said every time there'd

fighting and he said every time there'd fighting and he said every time there'd be another Victory and another island be another Victory and another island be another Victory and another island taken another closer hop to Japan you taken another closer hop to Japan you taken another closer hop to Japan you know and more of the shrinking of the know and more of the shrinking of the know and more of the shrinking of the blast radius of Japan Supernova um he blast radius of Japan Supernova um he blast radius of Japan Supernova um he said that's the same as saying we're one said that's the same as saying we're one said that's the same as saying we're one step closer to the final battles for step closer to the final battles for step closer to the final battles for Japan's home Islands the Ragnarok right Japan's home Islands the Ragnarok right Japan's home Islands the Ragnarok right and he's thinking to himself you know and he's thinking to himself you know and he's thinking to himself you know everybody already knows how dieh hard everybody already knows how dieh hard everybody already knows how dieh hard the Japanese were on all these islands the Japanese were on all these islands the Japanese were on all these islands we've already had to take from them that we've already had to take from them that we've already had to take from them that they don't care about as much as the they don't care about as much as the they don't care about as much as the home islands and we still have to go do home islands and we still have to go do home islands and we still have to go do I mean nobody was looking forward to I mean nobody was looking forward to I mean nobody was looking forward to this I just keep thinking about how this I just keep thinking about how this I just keep thinking about how unnerving the previews to it all would unnerving the previews to it all would unnerving the previews to it all would be if I were a nearly fighting age young be if I were a nearly fighting age young be if I were a nearly fighting age young man in the United States in say April man in the United States in say April man in the United States in say April early May early May early May 1945 and I'm reading about the Battle of 1945 and I'm reading about the Battle of 1945 and I'm reading about the Battle of Berlin right the last assault the Red Berlin right the last assault the Red Berlin right the last assault the Red Army Launches on uh Hitler's capital Army Launches on uh Hitler's capital Army Launches on uh Hitler's capital city with Hitler in it that the last big city with Hitler in it that the last big city with Hitler in it that the last big battle right it's going to end right battle right it's going to end right battle right it's going to end right here Ragnarok in Berlin if I'm reading here Ragnarok in Berlin if I'm reading here Ragnarok in Berlin if I'm reading about that uh something that turns into about that uh something that turns into about that uh something that turns into arguably the worst Urban combat in human arguably the worst Urban combat in human arguably the worst Urban combat in human history the Red Army loses more than history the Red Army loses more than history the Red Army loses more than 880,000 men in 16 days the Germans lose 880,000 men in 16 days the Germans lose 880,000 men in 16 days the Germans lose more more than 20,000 civilians Hitler more more than 20,000 civilians Hitler more more than 20,000 civilians Hitler kills himself in the bunker with the kills himself in the bunker with the kills himself in the bunker with the Soviet troops yards away the only way it Soviet troops yards away the only way it Soviet troops yards away the only way it could have been more last ditch is if a could have been more last ditch is if a could have been more last ditch is if a Soviet Soldier had broken down the Soviet Soldier had broken down the Soviet Soldier had broken down the bunker doors and stabbed Hitler with a

bunker doors and stabbed Hitler with a bunker doors and stabbed Hitler with a Bayonet and Hitler is not perceived as Bayonet and Hitler is not perceived as Bayonet and Hitler is not perceived as any more fanatical than Japanese any more fanatical than Japanese any more fanatical than Japanese leadership and maybe your average leadership and maybe your average leadership and maybe your average Japanese loyal Soldier and maybe even Japanese loyal Soldier and maybe even Japanese loyal Soldier and maybe even wife and child who knows but to somebody wife and child who knows but to somebody wife and child who knows but to somebody like yours truly reading the paper this like yours truly reading the paper this like yours truly reading the paper this would have looked like a horrible would have looked like a horrible would have looked like a horrible preview of what the Tokyo Situation's preview of what the Tokyo Situation's preview of what the Tokyo Situation's going to look like in a few months when going to look like in a few months when going to look like in a few months when we get to we get to we get to that and yet the alternative to Ragnarok that and yet the alternative to Ragnarok that and yet the alternative to Ragnarok is to let the human being lawnmower is to let the human being lawnmower is to let the human being lawnmower continue to rack up obscene monthly continue to rack up obscene monthly continue to rack up obscene monthly death totals until it's death totals until it's death totals until it's stopped there are no good choices are stopped there are no good choices are stopped there are no good choices are there there there and choices are where people like yours and choices are where people like yours and choices are where people like yours truly I know many of you too we just we truly I know many of you too we just we truly I know many of you too we just we can't help but look at the choices and can't help but look at the choices and can't help but look at the choices and become fascinated with I mean it's it's become fascinated with I mean it's it's become fascinated with I mean it's it's tempting always for a person who's into tempting always for a person who's into tempting always for a person who's into war games and chess and all that stuff war games and chess and all that stuff war games and chess and all that stuff uh to think about this in terms of a uh to think about this in terms of a uh to think about this in terms of a game like a geostrategic card game and game like a geostrategic card game and game like a geostrategic card game and the danger with that is all the the danger with that is all the the danger with that is all the decisions look so much easier when decisions look so much easier when decisions look so much easier when you're looking at them now you have no you're looking at them now you have no you're looking at them now you have no idea all the little influences and um idea all the little influences and um idea all the little influences and um roadblocks and roadblocks and roadblocks and Inhibitors and pressures and everything Inhibitors and pressures and everything Inhibitors and pressures and everything else that was working on the historical else that was working on the historical else that was working on the historical figure I always have this image of them figure I always have this image of them figure I always have this image of them coming back in a time machine and coming back in a time machine and coming back in a time machine and hearing someone like yours truly say hearing someone like yours truly say hearing someone like yours truly say well here's what you should have done well here's what you should have done well here's what you should have done and having them say oh yeah sure you and having them say oh yeah sure you and having them say oh yeah sure you don't think I would have done that if I don't think I would have done that if I don't think I would have done that if I could have but I couldn't have because could have but I couldn't have because could have but I couldn't have because of all these things that are not even in of all these things that are not even in of all these things that are not even in your history books that were acting on your history books that were acting on your history books that were acting on me so with that having been said it's

me so with that having been said it's me so with that having been said it's still hard for me to not look at this still hard for me to not look at this still hard for me to not look at this sometimes like a card game and in 1944 sometimes like a card game and in 1944 sometimes like a card game and in 1944 what's fascinating of that year is that what's fascinating of that year is that what's fascinating of that year is that the Germans and the Japanese only have a the Germans and the Japanese only have a the Germans and the Japanese only have a few meaningful cards left to few meaningful cards left to few meaningful cards left to play uh a limited amount of harbored and play uh a limited amount of harbored and play uh a limited amount of harbored and um stockpiled strength little bit of um stockpiled strength little bit of um stockpiled strength little bit of Rocket Fuel if you will that they've Rocket Fuel if you will that they've Rocket Fuel if you will that they've kept aside for just this time so what do kept aside for just this time so what do kept aside for just this time so what do you do with it what do you use it for you do with it what do you use it for you do with it what do you use it for what is a um worthy goal to use some of what is a um worthy goal to use some of what is a um worthy goal to use some of your last remaining strength for if your last remaining strength for if your last remaining strength for if winning the war probably isn't on the winning the war probably isn't on the winning the war probably isn't on the table I never like to say it's never on table I never like to say it's never on table I never like to say it's never on the table cuz war is full of weirdness the table cuz war is full of weirdness the table cuz war is full of weirdness to the degree that you just ever you to the degree that you just ever you to the degree that you just ever you can't ever say ever somebody's always can't ever say ever somebody's always can't ever say ever somebody's always pulling Victory out of the jaws of pulling Victory out of the jaws of pulling Victory out of the jaws of defeat but basically there are no war defeat but basically there are no war defeat but basically there are no war winning cards left to play at least no winning cards left to play at least no winning cards left to play at least no obvious war-winning cards left to play obvious war-winning cards left to play obvious war-winning cards left to play so how do you play what cards you still so how do you play what cards you still so how do you play what cards you still have left that's fascinating to me the have left that's fascinating to me the have left that's fascinating to me the Germans uh uh offensive in late 1944 the Germans uh uh offensive in late 1944 the Germans uh uh offensive in late 1944 the one in the the second ardan as it's one in the the second ardan as it's one in the the second ardan as it's called we Americans call it the Battle called we Americans call it the Battle called we Americans call it the Battle of the Bulge that's an example of Hitler of the Bulge that's an example of Hitler of the Bulge that's an example of Hitler playing one of those last cards I've got playing one of those last cards I've got playing one of those last cards I've got the stockpile of stuff uh let's use it the stockpile of stuff uh let's use it the stockpile of stuff uh let's use it here what was he trying to do historians here what was he trying to do historians here what was he trying to do historians and armchair generals ever since have and armchair generals ever since have and armchair generals ever since have been critiquing that decision there were been critiquing that decision there were been critiquing that decision there were a lot of people even at the time that a lot of people even at the time that a lot of people even at the time that maybe would have like to have seen all maybe would have like to have seen all maybe would have like to have seen all of that stockpiled strength used against of that stockpiled strength used against of that stockpiled strength used against the Red Army instead to maybe Forstall the Red Army instead to maybe Forstall the Red Army instead to maybe Forstall what happened in Berlin long enough to what happened in Berlin long enough to what happened in Berlin long enough to let the Allies get there let the Allies get there let the Allies get there first the Western allies would be a first the Western allies would be a first the Western allies would be a better way to put it right because the

better way to put it right because the better way to put it right because the Soviet Union's an ally as well but Soviet Union's an ally as well but Soviet Union's an ally as well but regardless you know hindsight's 2020 regardless you know hindsight's 2020 regardless you know hindsight's 2020 right the Japanese cards that they have right the Japanese cards that they have right the Japanese cards that they have to to to play they're playing um early on in play they're playing um early on in play they're playing um early on in 1944 I mean they launch an offensive in 1944 I mean they launch an offensive in 1944 I mean they launch an offensive in the Burma India theater in March 1944 the Burma India theater in March 1944 the Burma India theater in March 1944 and then a month later they launched the and then a month later they launched the and then a month later they launched the largest offensive of the war on their largest offensive of the war on their largest offensive of the war on their part and I think I read the largest part and I think I read the largest part and I think I read the largest offensive in Imperial Japanese Army offensive in Imperial Japanese Army offensive in Imperial Japanese Army history with the Ichigo campaign in history with the Ichigo campaign in history with the Ichigo campaign in China we mentioned both these campaigns China we mentioned both these campaigns China we mentioned both these campaigns actually uh briefly in the last segment actually uh briefly in the last segment actually uh briefly in the last segment but the Ichigo campaign is the kind but the Ichigo campaign is the kind but the Ichigo campaign is the kind where you look at and you don't even where you look at and you don't even where you look at and you don't even know how the Japanese do it we mentioned know how the Japanese do it we mentioned know how the Japanese do it we mentioned a long time ago that that to me the a long time ago that that to me the a long time ago that that to me the Japanese look like one of the peoples on Japanese look like one of the peoples on Japanese look like one of the peoples on the planet that punch above their weight the planet that punch above their weight the planet that punch above their weight class because they are um able to pull class because they are um able to pull class because they are um able to pull off stuff where you would look at their off stuff where you would look at their off stuff where you would look at their population numbers and their population numbers and their population numbers and their geographical questions and their history geographical questions and their history geographical questions and their history and think that they're just not they're and think that they're just not they're and think that they're just not they're not going to be able to do that and then not going to be able to do that and then not going to be able to do that and then they achieve it anyway and I sometimes they achieve it anyway and I sometimes they achieve it anyway and I sometimes wonder looking at their history if maybe wonder looking at their history if maybe wonder looking at their history if maybe they just have to we've talked about they just have to we've talked about they just have to we've talked about about the limitations of their somewhat about the limitations of their somewhat about the limitations of their somewhat dysfunctional uh subpar usually in terms dysfunctional uh subpar usually in terms dysfunctional uh subpar usually in terms of outcome government of outcome government of outcome government design we've talked about the problems design we've talked about the problems design we've talked about the problems that they have with the organization of that they have with the organization of that they have with the organization of the military and how you have this issue the military and how you have this issue the military and how you have this issue with midlevel officers able to exert an with midlevel officers able to exert an with midlevel officers able to exert an undue amount of control and influence undue amount of control and influence undue amount of control and influence over military policy these are all over military policy these are all over military policy these are all things that put the Japanese into very

things that put the Japanese into very things that put the Japanese into very tough situations and time and again tough situations and time and again tough situations and time and again somehow despite all of the impediments somehow despite all of the impediments somehow despite all of the impediments and the odds against them the Japanese and the odds against them the Japanese and the odds against them the Japanese people managed to pull the fat out of people managed to pull the fat out of people managed to pull the fat out of the fire more times than the fire more times than the fire more times than not I read somewhere that for the Ichigo not I read somewhere that for the Ichigo not I read somewhere that for the Ichigo offensive the Japanese stockpiled offensive the Japanese stockpiled offensive the Japanese stockpiled ammunition for two years and Aviation ammunition for two years and Aviation ammunition for two years and Aviation air fuel for eight months and when they air fuel for eight months and when they air fuel for eight months and when they launch this multi-stage offensive that launch this multi-stage offensive that launch this multi-stage offensive that will go from will go from will go from April uh 1944 to at least December 1944 April uh 1944 to at least December 1944 April uh 1944 to at least December 1944 I believe there's still significant I believe there's still significant I believe there's still significant fighting going on in January fighting going on in January fighting going on in January 1945 the half a million Japanese troops 1945 the half a million Japanese troops 1945 the half a million Japanese troops more than 15,000 Vehicles more than more than 15,000 Vehicles more than more than 15,000 Vehicles more than 100,000 animals um launch this assault 100,000 animals um launch this assault 100,000 animals um launch this assault on China that is ferocious and you know on China that is ferocious and you know on China that is ferocious and you know we should point out that nowhere in the we should point out that nowhere in the we should point out that nowhere in the Pacific was anybody facing armies like Pacific was anybody facing armies like Pacific was anybody facing armies like 500,000 Japanese soldiers these are land 500,000 Japanese soldiers these are land 500,000 Japanese soldiers these are land war in Asia sized armies okay I mean the war in Asia sized armies okay I mean the war in Asia sized armies okay I mean the big battles in the Pacific uh later on big battles in the Pacific uh later on big battles in the Pacific uh later on are going to be fractions of this are going to be fractions of this are going to be fractions of this number The Only Exception I can think of number The Only Exception I can think of number The Only Exception I can think of is the Philippines Campaign which is is the Philippines Campaign which is is the Philippines Campaign which is still to come but even then the Japanese still to come but even then the Japanese still to come but even then the Japanese are more on the defensive there whereas are more on the defensive there whereas are more on the defensive there whereas in China on the Ichigo offensive it is a in China on the Ichigo offensive it is a in China on the Ichigo offensive it is a massive many months long assault but massive many months long assault but massive many months long assault but when you're fighting Chinese armies when you're fighting Chinese armies when you're fighting Chinese armies which are traditionally very large and which are traditionally very large and which are traditionally very large and in this campaign the Japanese are often in this campaign the Japanese are often in this campaign the Japanese are often outnumbered and fighting multiple outnumbered and fighting multiple outnumbered and fighting multiple Chinese armies which means lots of Chinese armies which means lots of Chinese armies which means lots of troops you better have lots of troops you better have lots of troops you better have lots of troops the irony of the whole thing is

troops the irony of the whole thing is troops the irony of the whole thing is that the Japanese will in large part uh that the Japanese will in large part uh that the Japanese will in large part uh succeed in many ways in this offensive succeed in many ways in this offensive succeed in many ways in this offensive if you were judging this offensive if you were judging this offensive if you were judging this offensive outside of the context of the war you'd outside of the context of the war you'd outside of the context of the war you'd go wow they pulled off a lot of upsets go wow they pulled off a lot of upsets go wow they pulled off a lot of upsets here almost knock the nationalists out here almost knock the nationalists out here almost knock the nationalists out of the war did retake the American air of the war did retake the American air of the war did retake the American air bases they wanted eliminated did connect bases they wanted eliminated did connect bases they wanted eliminated did connect these territories they wanted connected these territories they wanted connected these territories they wanted connected but there so many historians I was but there so many historians I was but there so many historians I was reading pointed out so what so you took reading pointed out so what so you took reading pointed out so what so you took this giant amount of remaining Rocket this giant amount of remaining Rocket this giant amount of remaining Rocket Fuel You' stored up and saved to use Fuel You' stored up and saved to use Fuel You' stored up and saved to use somehow and you did it in a way that somehow and you did it in a way that somehow and you did it in a way that won't slow the Allied Advance across the won't slow the Allied Advance across the won't slow the Allied Advance across the Pacific Island and toward the Japanese Pacific Island and toward the Japanese Pacific Island and toward the Japanese Homeland at Homeland at Homeland at all right was that a wasted card you all right was that a wasted card you all right was that a wasted card you actually achieved a lot of what you actually achieved a lot of what you actually achieved a lot of what you wanted to achieve it actually worked out wanted to achieve it actually worked out wanted to achieve it actually worked out pretty well judging by you know a a pretty well judging by you know a a pretty well judging by you know a a non-contextual sort of standard but in a non-contextual sort of standard but in a non-contextual sort of standard but in a contextual sort of standard didn't do contextual sort of standard didn't do contextual sort of standard didn't do anything to slow down the losing of the anything to slow down the losing of the anything to slow down the losing of the war needless to say it keeps the human war needless to say it keeps the human war needless to say it keeps the human being being being lawnmower uh working overtime I mean lawnmower uh working overtime I mean lawnmower uh working overtime I mean 750,000 Chinese soldiers may have been 750,000 Chinese soldiers may have been 750,000 Chinese soldiers may have been killed I I've seen like a 100,000 killed I I've seen like a 100,000 killed I I've seen like a 100,000 Japanese as a um as a death toll Japanese as a um as a death toll Japanese as a um as a death toll sometimes the numbers are are hard to sometimes the numbers are are hard to sometimes the numbers are are hard to trust and and differ source to source trust and and differ source to source trust and and differ source to source and the methodolog is different and but and the methodolog is different and but and the methodolog is different and but there may have been 200,000 Chinese there may have been 200,000 Chinese there may have been 200,000 Chinese civilian deaths due to this civilian deaths due to this civilian deaths due to this offensive and in the same way that there offensive and in the same way that there offensive and in the same way that there are critics of Hitler's decision to use are critics of Hitler's decision to use are critics of Hitler's decision to use some of his last precious Rocket Fuel some of his last precious Rocket Fuel some of his last precious Rocket Fuel against the Western allies instead of against the Western allies instead of against the Western allies instead of against the Soviets saying that it was a

against the Soviets saying that it was a against the Soviets saying that it was a essentially a boon for communism it essentially a boon for communism it essentially a boon for communism it trapped more of Central Europe behind trapped more of Central Europe behind trapped more of Central Europe behind the Iron Curtain a similar charge is the Iron Curtain a similar charge is the Iron Curtain a similar charge is sometimes made against the Japanese for sometimes made against the Japanese for sometimes made against the Japanese for the Ichigo campaign for example Japanese the Ichigo campaign for example Japanese the Ichigo campaign for example Japanese military historian harra teshi writing military historian harra teshi writing military historian harra teshi writing in the battle for China proclaims the in the battle for China proclaims the in the battle for China proclaims the Ichigo campaign to have been a disaster Ichigo campaign to have been a disaster Ichigo campaign to have been a disaster for both the Japanese and the for both the Japanese and the for both the Japanese and the Nationalist Chinese he says the only Nationalist Chinese he says the only Nationalist Chinese he says the only winners were the Communists because they winners were the Communists because they winners were the Communists because they sat back and watched their two worst sat back and watched their two worst sat back and watched their two worst enemies the Japanese and the Nationalist enemies the Japanese and the Nationalist enemies the Japanese and the Nationalist Chinese kill each other off the Nationalist and the Communist the Nationalist and the Communist Chinese of course had been fighting a Chinese of course had been fighting a Chinese of course had been fighting a Civil War when the Japanese uh invasion Civil War when the Japanese uh invasion Civil War when the Japanese uh invasion of China sort of temporarily put a of China sort of temporarily put a of China sort of temporarily put a damper on that but it will spring into damper on that but it will spring into damper on that but it will spring into New Life After the Japanese are defeated New Life After the Japanese are defeated New Life After the Japanese are defeated and because perhaps of the damage that and because perhaps of the damage that and because perhaps of the damage that was was done to the Nationalist the was was done to the Nationalist the was was done to the Nationalist the nationalists will lose that Civil War nationalists will lose that Civil War nationalists will lose that Civil War and well of course we have a communist and well of course we have a communist and well of course we have a communist China today so there are some historians China today so there are some historians China today so there are some historians who suggest that the Japanese helped who suggest that the Japanese helped who suggest that the Japanese helped give us a communist China today it's give us a communist China today it's give us a communist China today it's interesting and fascinating to interesting and fascinating to interesting and fascinating to contemplate isn't contemplate isn't contemplate isn't it considering that in 1944 Japan was it considering that in 1944 Japan was it considering that in 1944 Japan was probably the most anti-communist country probably the most anti-communist country probably the most anti-communist country in the world there's some historical in the world there's some historical in the world there's some historical irony to it isn't it talk about not irony to it isn't it talk about not irony to it isn't it talk about not getting what you wished getting what you wished getting what you wished for I happen to find much more Intrigue for I happen to find much more Intrigue for I happen to find much more Intrigue in the Japanese offensive in Burma the in the Japanese offensive in Burma the in the Japanese offensive in Burma the one that kicks off a month before Ichigo one that kicks off a month before Ichigo one that kicks off a month before Ichigo and was supposed to act sort of in and was supposed to act sort of in and was supposed to act sort of in tandem with it to me it's much more

tandem with it to me it's much more tandem with it to me it's much more interesting because there's a wild card interesting because there's a wild card interesting because there's a wild card element involved and if you're where the element involved and if you're where the element involved and if you're where the Japanese are at this time in the war Japanese are at this time in the war Japanese are at this time in the war wild cards look good how about playing a wild cards look good how about playing a wild cards look good how about playing a joker card in a campaign right they joker card in a campaign right they joker card in a campaign right they introduce a little chaos introduce a little chaos introduce a little chaos somewhere um where it might do some good somewhere um where it might do some good somewhere um where it might do some good for your war effort and if you can't win for your war effort and if you can't win for your war effort and if you can't win the war what can you the war what can you the war what can you do the Japanese offensive in central do the Japanese offensive in central do the Japanese offensive in central Burma is known as the Yugo campaign from Burma is known as the Yugo campaign from Burma is known as the Yugo campaign from the Japanese Viewpoint in anglo-american the Japanese Viewpoint in anglo-american the Japanese Viewpoint in anglo-american history it's often referred to as the history it's often referred to as the history it's often referred to as the invasion of India 1944 now most military history accounts 1944 now most military history accounts of the Yugo campaign State the sort of of the Yugo campaign State the sort of of the Yugo campaign State the sort of goals that also don't really do a whole goals that also don't really do a whole goals that also don't really do a whole lot to keep Japan from losing the war lot to keep Japan from losing the war lot to keep Japan from losing the war doesn't even really do much to slow it doesn't even really do much to slow it doesn't even really do much to slow it down I mean you know I love the down I mean you know I love the down I mean you know I love the encyclopedia military history by R erest encyclopedia military history by R erest encyclopedia military history by R erest uh dep and Trevor dep they describ the uh dep and Trevor dep they describ the uh dep and Trevor dep they describ the Japanese goals this way uh by the way Japanese goals this way uh by the way Japanese goals this way uh by the way kab and mutaguchi are two Japanese kab and mutaguchi are two Japanese kab and mutaguchi are two Japanese generals quote kabe had directed generals quote kabe had directed generals quote kabe had directed mutaguchi to prepare for an offensive mutaguchi to prepare for an offensive mutaguchi to prepare for an offensive across the mountains into Eastern India across the mountains into Eastern India across the mountains into Eastern India with three of his divisions which with with three of his divisions which with with three of his divisions which with attached units totaled nearly 100,000 attached units totaled nearly 100,000 attached units totaled nearly 100,000 veteran combat troops the objective was veteran combat troops the objective was veteran combat troops the objective was twofold they write first to seize the twofold they write first to seize the twofold they write first to seize the infal kohima plane of Manipur The infal kohima plane of Manipur The infal kohima plane of Manipur The Logical assembly area and base for any Logical assembly area and base for any Logical assembly area and base for any Allied invasion of central Burma from

Allied invasion of central Burma from Allied invasion of central Burma from India second to cut the railroad line India second to cut the railroad line India second to cut the railroad line into Assam which passed through Manipur into Assam which passed through Manipur into Assam which passed through Manipur and which carried almost all the and which carried almost all the and which carried almost all the supplies um all the supplies into China supplies um all the supplies into China supplies um all the supplies into China that they were sending end quote so this that they were sending end quote so this that they were sending end quote so this doesn't sound a whole lot different than doesn't sound a whole lot different than doesn't sound a whole lot different than the Ichigo campaign does it the sort of the Ichigo campaign does it the sort of the Ichigo campaign does it the sort of uh sound military objectives that won't uh sound military objectives that won't uh sound military objectives that won't keep you from losing the war but there's keep you from losing the war but there's keep you from losing the war but there's a secondary consideration or a lot of my a secondary consideration or a lot of my a secondary consideration or a lot of my history books will call it a secondary history books will call it a secondary history books will call it a secondary objective sometimes they'll have a whole objective sometimes they'll have a whole objective sometimes they'll have a whole paragraph outlying uh the seizing of the paragraph outlying uh the seizing of the paragraph outlying uh the seizing of the rail heads and all these military things rail heads and all these military things rail heads and all these military things and then add like a couple of words or and then add like a couple of words or and then add like a couple of words or or a single sentence at the end of the or a single sentence at the end of the or a single sentence at the end of the paragraph and say something to the paragraph and say something to the paragraph and say something to the effect of oh yeah and maybe prompt some effect of oh yeah and maybe prompt some effect of oh yeah and maybe prompt some sort of a rebellion in India that little sort of a rebellion in India that little sort of a rebellion in India that little secondary consideration is the most secondary consideration is the most secondary consideration is the most interesting part of this plan to me and interesting part of this plan to me and interesting part of this plan to me and the most scary to a dedicated the most scary to a dedicated the most scary to a dedicated imperialist like Winston imperialist like Winston imperialist like Winston Churchill in his book uh well series of Churchill in his book uh well series of Churchill in his book uh well series of books the history of the Second World books the history of the Second World books the history of the Second World War written not that long after the War written not that long after the War written not that long after the second world war and sometimes you can second world war and sometimes you can second world war and sometimes you can see it as almost a window into the see it as almost a window into the see it as almost a window into the psychology of Winston psychology of Winston psychology of Winston Churchill Churchill doesn't talk at all Churchill Churchill doesn't talk at all Churchill Churchill doesn't talk at all about seizing this rail head or this he about seizing this rail head or this he about seizing this rail head or this he lays out what a um the head of the lays out what a um the head of the lays out what a um the head of the greatest colonial power in human greatest colonial power in human greatest colonial power in human history his worry is and he he puts it history his worry is and he he puts it history his worry is and he he puts it this way he says this way he says this way he says quote they meaning the Japanese proposed quote they meaning the Japanese proposed quote they meaning the Japanese proposed to invade Eastern India and raise the to invade Eastern India and raise the to invade Eastern India and raise the flag of rebellion against the British flag of rebellion against the British flag of rebellion against the British end quote raise the flag of rebellion

end quote raise the flag of rebellion end quote raise the flag of rebellion against the British what would that even against the British what would that even against the British what would that even mean well first we have to recall the mean well first we have to recall the mean well first we have to recall the global situation in global situation in global situation in 1944 a ton of the world are Colonial 1944 a ton of the world are Colonial 1944 a ton of the world are Colonial possessions during this time period I possessions during this time period I possessions during this time period I mean go look at a map and a lot of the mean go look at a map and a lot of the mean go look at a map and a lot of the the places that aren't Colonial the places that aren't Colonial the places that aren't Colonial possessions are are de facto ones where possessions are are de facto ones where possessions are are de facto ones where they're sort of under the control um of they're sort of under the control um of they're sort of under the control um of other people I mean but almost all of other people I mean but almost all of other people I mean but almost all of Africa is colonized during this period Africa is colonized during this period Africa is colonized during this period um most of the places that the Japanese um most of the places that the Japanese um most of the places that the Japanese took over after the Pearl Harbor attacks took over after the Pearl Harbor attacks took over after the Pearl Harbor attacks they didn't take from the indigenous they didn't take from the indigenous they didn't take from the indigenous peoples they conquered those places from peoples they conquered those places from peoples they conquered those places from the colonial countries that had taken the colonial countries that had taken the colonial countries that had taken them over a long time ago I mean uh the them over a long time ago I mean uh the them over a long time ago I mean uh the Japanese threw out the Dutch who were Japanese threw out the Dutch who were Japanese threw out the Dutch who were controlling places like Java and controlling places like Java and controlling places like Java and Sumatra they threw out the French who Sumatra they threw out the French who Sumatra they threw out the French who were in Indochina right La Cambodia were in Indochina right La Cambodia were in Indochina right La Cambodia Vietnam today they threw the British out Vietnam today they threw the British out Vietnam today they threw the British out of Burma and now the British were in of Burma and now the British were in of Burma and now the British were in India and uh what if the Japanese could India and uh what if the Japanese could India and uh what if the Japanese could have Cloud seeded a revolution have Cloud seeded a revolution have Cloud seeded a revolution there it's a weird thought isn't it there it's a weird thought isn't it there it's a weird thought isn't it cloud-seeding a revolution but if you cloud-seeding a revolution but if you cloud-seeding a revolution but if you look at the histories of the late 1940s look at the histories of the late 1940s look at the histories of the late 1940s after the second world war the 1950s the after the second world war the 1950s the after the second world war the 1950s the 1960s really into the 1970s there are so 1960s really into the 1970s there are so 1960s really into the 1970s there are so many wars and struggles and political many wars and struggles and political many wars and struggles and political problems that one could broadly classify problems that one could broadly classify problems that one could broadly classify as the unraveling of colonialism I mean as the unraveling of colonialism I mean as the unraveling of colonialism I mean the Vietnam war is as a result of the the Vietnam war is as a result of the the Vietnam war is as a result of the unraveling of colonialism and so many of

unraveling of colonialism and so many of unraveling of colonialism and so many of these places that will fall into these these places that will fall into these these places that will fall into these categories in the decades after the categories in the decades after the categories in the decades after the second world war have the seeds and the second world war have the seeds and the second world war have the seeds and the nucleus of those things in existence nucleus of those things in existence nucleus of those things in existence already I remember a history Professor already I remember a history Professor already I remember a history Professor pointing out that one of the the key pointing out that one of the the key pointing out that one of the the key amplifiers and accelerators of this amplifiers and accelerators of this amplifiers and accelerators of this process was that the Japanese didn't process was that the Japanese didn't process was that the Japanese didn't just throw out these Colonial Powers just throw out these Colonial Powers just throw out these Colonial Powers when they took over these countries from when they took over these countries from when they took over these countries from them they threw them out quickly and at them they threw them out quickly and at them they threw them out quickly and at the same time so instead of the Dutch the same time so instead of the Dutch the same time so instead of the Dutch having to leave um the the Indies um and having to leave um the the Indies um and having to leave um the the Indies um and then 10 years later the French having to then 10 years later the French having to then 10 years later the French having to leave Indochina and then 10 years after leave Indochina and then 10 years after leave Indochina and then 10 years after that the British having to leave India that the British having to leave India that the British having to leave India the Japanese threw them all out in a the Japanese threw them all out in a the Japanese threw them all out in a matter of months and kept them out of matter of months and kept them out of matter of months and kept them out of those territories for years and so when those territories for years and so when those territories for years and so when those those those countries evicted the Japanese and countries evicted the Japanese and countries evicted the Japanese and retook their colonial possessions those retook their colonial possessions those retook their colonial possessions those Colonial possessions had not had their Colonial possessions had not had their Colonial possessions had not had their colonial Masters there for some time colonial Masters there for some time colonial Masters there for some time tough to put those Genies back in the tough to put those Genies back in the tough to put those Genies back in the bottle especially when those areas bottle especially when those areas bottle especially when those areas weren't too happy with the colonial weren't too happy with the colonial weren't too happy with the colonial Masters already India is a perfect Masters already India is a perfect Masters already India is a perfect example of that by example of that by example of that by 1944 there are some seriously angry 1944 there are some seriously angry 1944 there are some seriously angry Indians and they're angry at the Indians and they're angry at the Indians and they're angry at the British recall our conversation earlier British recall our conversation earlier British recall our conversation earlier on um when we had talked about how the on um when we had talked about how the on um when we had talked about how the Indians who already were were for years Indians who already were were for years Indians who already were were for years before this time um advocating for before this time um advocating for before this time um advocating for independence from Britain how they even independence from Britain how they even independence from Britain how they even found themselves in the second world war

found themselves in the second world war found themselves in the second world war it was a slap in the face the British it was a slap in the face the British it was a slap in the face the British vicy just said we're in didn't ask vicy just said we're in didn't ask vicy just said we're in didn't ask Indian leadership or the top people in Indian leadership or the top people in Indian leadership or the top people in India at all in 1942 when talks broke India at all in 1942 when talks broke India at all in 1942 when talks broke down on Indian independence um mandes down on Indian independence um mandes down on Indian independence um mandes Gandhi called Mahatma Gandhi the Great Gandhi called Mahatma Gandhi the Great Gandhi called Mahatma Gandhi the Great Soul he um he starts the quit India Soul he um he starts the quit India Soul he um he starts the quit India Campaign which says we're not going to Campaign which says we're not going to Campaign which says we're not going to cooperate with the war effort uh for his cooperate with the war effort uh for his cooperate with the war effort uh for his troubles he gets thrown into jail along troubles he gets thrown into jail along troubles he gets thrown into jail along with most most of the leadership of his with most most of the leadership of his with most most of the leadership of his political party there will be something political party there will be something political party there will be something like a 100,000 Indians thrown into like a 100,000 Indians thrown into like a 100,000 Indians thrown into prison during this time period there prison during this time period there prison during this time period there will be uh riots rebellions protests will be uh riots rebellions protests will be uh riots rebellions protests that some of these protest troops will that some of these protest troops will that some of these protest troops will open fire and hundreds if not thousands open fire and hundreds if not thousands open fire and hundreds if not thousands those numbers are debatable will be those numbers are debatable will be those numbers are debatable will be killed there is a famine in Bengal in killed there is a famine in Bengal in killed there is a famine in Bengal in 1943 which we also mentioned which will 1943 which we also mentioned which will 1943 which we also mentioned which will stretch into 1944 which um it's a very stretch into 1944 which um it's a very stretch into 1944 which um it's a very controversial issue it's often blamed on controversial issue it's often blamed on controversial issue it's often blamed on war related things and a guy who gets war related things and a guy who gets war related things and a guy who gets the Lion Share of the blame on on the the Lion Share of the blame on on the the Lion Share of the blame on on the part of some people is Winston Churchill part of some people is Winston Churchill part of some people is Winston Churchill and he's called genocidal by some and he's called genocidal by some and he's called genocidal by some Indians today but Millions will die in Indians today but Millions will die in Indians today but Millions will die in this it contributes to the mood uh this it contributes to the mood uh this it contributes to the mood uh Brigadier Peter Young who wrote a book Brigadier Peter Young who wrote a book Brigadier Peter Young who wrote a book in the 1970s called add dictionary of in the 1970s called add dictionary of in the 1970s called add dictionary of battles claims that it was taking a battles claims that it was taking a battles claims that it was taking a 100,000 British and Indian soldiers to 100,000 British and Indian soldiers to 100,000 British and Indian soldiers to keep the lid on unrest in India during keep the lid on unrest in India during keep the lid on unrest in India during this time period so this is even before this time period so this is even before this time period so this is even before the Japanese make their move the Japanese make their move the Japanese make their move here worth pointing out that India is here worth pointing out that India is here worth pointing out that India is not the kind of place no country is but not the kind of place no country is but not the kind of place no country is but especially not India that is of like especially not India that is of like especially not India that is of like mind about anything it is an enormous mind about anything it is an enormous mind about anything it is an enormous country and potentially the most diverse

country and potentially the most diverse country and potentially the most diverse country I've ever seen top to bottom country I've ever seen top to bottom country I've ever seen top to bottom side to side and it was even bigger in side to side and it was even bigger in side to side and it was even bigger in this period than it is now because its this period than it is now because its this period than it is now because its territories included the modern states territories included the modern states territories included the modern states of Pakistan and Bangladesh as of Pakistan and Bangladesh as of Pakistan and Bangladesh as well some of these uh people support the well some of these uh people support the well some of these uh people support the British there are princely uh uh groups British there are princely uh uh groups British there are princely uh uh groups for example that have an arrangement for example that have an arrangement for example that have an arrangement with the colonial Powers um the Muslims with the colonial Powers um the Muslims with the colonial Powers um the Muslims and the Hindus have different opinions and the Hindus have different opinions and the Hindus have different opinions on things we'd mentioned earlier there's on things we'd mentioned earlier there's on things we'd mentioned earlier there's two and a half million Indian soldiers two and a half million Indian soldiers two and a half million Indian soldiers fighting for the Allies but there's also fighting for the Allies but there's also fighting for the Allies but there's also Indian soldiers fighting with the Indian soldiers fighting with the Indian soldiers fighting with the Japanese against the Allies it's a much Japanese against the Allies it's a much Japanese against the Allies it's a much smaller smaller smaller number but in this campaign this number but in this campaign this number but in this campaign this invasion of India in invasion of India in invasion of India in 1944 they're going to play a an 1944 they're going to play a an 1944 they're going to play a an important important important role it they're led by a a charismatic role it they're led by a a charismatic role it they're led by a a charismatic Indian figure his name is subas Indian figure his name is subas Indian figure his name is subas Shandra and you know if you wanted to Shandra and you know if you wanted to Shandra and you know if you wanted to make a really poor analogy and I make a really poor analogy and I make a really poor analogy and I apologize for this but but Gandhi and apologize for this but but Gandhi and apologize for this but but Gandhi and Martin Luther King U have some Martin Luther King U have some Martin Luther King U have some similarities because Martin Luther King similarities because Martin Luther King similarities because Martin Luther King um modeled some of his tactics on um modeled some of his tactics on um modeled some of his tactics on Gandhi's nonviolent approach well if if Gandhi's nonviolent approach well if if Gandhi's nonviolent approach well if if you want to equate those two then you want to equate those two then you want to equate those two then Subhash Shandra BOS is more like an Subhash Shandra BOS is more like an Subhash Shandra BOS is more like an unreformed version of Malcom X his unreformed version of Malcom X his unreformed version of Malcom X his attitude is much more of uh by any means attitude is much more of uh by any means attitude is much more of uh by any means necessary and whereas Gandhi issues necessary and whereas Gandhi issues necessary and whereas Gandhi issues violence to get the British out of India violence to get the British out of India violence to get the British out of India uh Bose Embraces it and he's leading a uh Bose Embraces it and he's leading a uh Bose Embraces it and he's leading a bunch of Indian troops um I think the bunch of Indian troops um I think the bunch of Indian troops um I think the Indian army fighting with the Japanese Indian army fighting with the Japanese Indian army fighting with the Japanese is like 16 17,000 people I think he's is like 16 17,000 people I think he's is like 16 17,000 people I think he's leading seven or 8,000 in this assault leading seven or 8,000 in this assault leading seven or 8,000 in this assault on India a lot of these Indians were PWS

on India a lot of these Indians were PWS on India a lot of these Indians were PWS and they were offered the chance you and they were offered the chance you and they were offered the chance you know when Singapore fell a lot of them know when Singapore fell a lot of them know when Singapore fell a lot of them fell into Japanese hands they were fell into Japanese hands they were fell into Japanese hands they were offered this chance to be in horrific p offered this chance to be in horrific p offered this chance to be in horrific p uh conditions or join this Army and a uh conditions or join this Army and a uh conditions or join this Army and a lot of them unsurprisingly did but Bose lot of them unsurprisingly did but Bose lot of them unsurprisingly did but Bose is involved in trying to tell the is involved in trying to tell the is involved in trying to tell the Japanese Commander listen you defeat the Japanese Commander listen you defeat the Japanese Commander listen you defeat the British military forces here and I will British military forces here and I will British military forces here and I will go into India with these Indians will go into India with these Indians will go into India with these Indians will carry Indian flags of Independence and carry Indian flags of Independence and carry Indian flags of Independence and we'll raise India to we'll raise India to we'll raise India to Rebellion what would happen if that Rebellion what would happen if that Rebellion what would happen if that actually actually actually occurred I mean I can't think of any occurred I mean I can't think of any occurred I mean I can't think of any card the Japanese could play at this card the Japanese could play at this card the Japanese could play at this point in the war that would create more point in the war that would create more point in the war that would create more if you'll pardon the Star Wars reference if you'll pardon the Star Wars reference if you'll pardon the Star Wars reference but more of a disturbance in the Allied but more of a disturbance in the Allied but more of a disturbance in the Allied Force than prompting a rebellion in Force than prompting a rebellion in Force than prompting a rebellion in India now because India is not of one India now because India is not of one India now because India is not of one mind I don't think you'd ever see mind I don't think you'd ever see mind I don't think you'd ever see anything like India just flip to the anything like India just flip to the anything like India just flip to the Axis powers but you could easily see Axis powers but you could easily see Axis powers but you could easily see India descend into chaos because you'll India descend into chaos because you'll India descend into chaos because you'll see it after the second world war during see it after the second world war during see it after the second world war during the the chaos involved in Independence the the chaos involved in Independence the the chaos involved in Independence and India is one of those countries that and India is one of those countries that and India is one of those countries that 5 minutes after it descends into chaos 5 minutes after it descends into chaos 5 minutes after it descends into chaos you have a humanitarian catastrophe on you have a humanitarian catastrophe on you have a humanitarian catastrophe on your hands if it's taken a 100,000 your hands if it's taken a 100,000 your hands if it's taken a 100,000 British and Indian troops to keep Indian British and Indian troops to keep Indian British and Indian troops to keep Indian unrest under control without any of that unrest under control without any of that unrest under control without any of that what's it going to take if India goes what's it going to take if India goes what's it going to take if India goes sideways on the allies sideways on the allies sideways on the allies what's more if you really want to start what's more if you really want to start what's more if you really want to start talking about uh fascinating wha ifs or talking about uh fascinating wha ifs or talking about uh fascinating wha ifs or counterfactuals why would this stop at counterfactuals why would this stop at counterfactuals why would this stop at India those of you who remember the Arab

India those of you who remember the Arab India those of you who remember the Arab Spring uh not that long ago uh will Spring uh not that long ago uh will Spring uh not that long ago uh will recall how amazing it is to see how recall how amazing it is to see how recall how amazing it is to see how quickly an idea and and a mood if you quickly an idea and and a mood if you quickly an idea and and a mood if you will can will can will can spread we once described ideas like an spread we once described ideas like an spread we once described ideas like an intellectual contagion and there were intellectual contagion and there were intellectual contagion and there were many people who said that the Arabs many people who said that the Arabs many people who said that the Arabs spring was only made possible because of spring was only made possible because of spring was only made possible because of modern-day Communications but that's modern-day Communications but that's modern-day Communications but that's happened many times in the past those of happened many times in the past those of happened many times in the past those of you who look at the famous year of 1848 you who look at the famous year of 1848 you who look at the famous year of 1848 the so-called year of revolutions and the so-called year of revolutions and the so-called year of revolutions and how many revolutions sprung up in so how many revolutions sprung up in so how many revolutions sprung up in so many different countries at once I mean many different countries at once I mean many different countries at once I mean what if the Japanese could Cloud seed a what if the Japanese could Cloud seed a what if the Japanese could Cloud seed a revolution here on the part of a bunch revolution here on the part of a bunch revolution here on the part of a bunch of these colonially um oppressed is that of these colonially um oppressed is that of these colonially um oppressed is that a good way to put it subject a good way to put it subject a good way to put it subject peoples it's a joker card right to peoples it's a joker card right to peoples it's a joker card right to introduce a little chaos into the introduce a little chaos into the introduce a little chaos into the equation and see what happens and let's equation and see what happens and let's equation and see what happens and let's recall that the Japanese propaganda has recall that the Japanese propaganda has recall that the Japanese propaganda has been laying the groundwork for this for been laying the groundwork for this for been laying the groundwork for this for years that's why we brought it up much years that's why we brought it up much years that's why we brought it up much earlier in this conversation I think earlier in this conversation I think earlier in this conversation I think maybe in the very first segment where we maybe in the very first segment where we maybe in the very first segment where we talked about pan asianism Which is an talked about pan asianism Which is an talked about pan asianism Which is an intellectual uh Doctrine with a with a intellectual uh Doctrine with a with a intellectual uh Doctrine with a with a long history and and many countries have long history and and many countries have long history and and many countries have their own version of it but the Japanese their own version of it but the Japanese their own version of it but the Japanese took a little bit of that and injected took a little bit of that and injected took a little bit of that and injected it into their concept of uh of an it into their concept of uh of an it into their concept of uh of an economic Union the famous greater East economic Union the famous greater East economic Union the famous greater East Asia Co Prosperity Asia Co Prosperity Asia Co Prosperity sphere they were uh consistently saying sphere they were uh consistently saying sphere they were uh consistently saying things like they their troops were things like they their troops were things like they their troops were pushing for Asia for the pushing for Asia for the pushing for Asia for the asiatics we had quoted again in the asiatics we had quoted again in the asiatics we had quoted again in the first show I think uh that Japanese

first show I think uh that Japanese first show I think uh that Japanese soldier who said that he was fired up by soldier who said that he was fired up by soldier who said that he was fired up by his teacher back in I think it was their his teacher back in I think it was their his teacher back in I think it was their version of high school who was talking version of high school who was talking version of high school who was talking about the um the white man and what he about the um the white man and what he about the um the white man and what he was doing in in Asia to Asians and that was doing in in Asia to Asians and that was doing in in Asia to Asians and that same teacher talked about uh black folks same teacher talked about uh black folks same teacher talked about uh black folks in the United States Native Americans in in the United States Native Americans in in the United States Native Americans in the United States and and the Japanese the United States and and the Japanese the United States and and the Japanese soldier said he was fired up to free all soldier said he was fired up to free all soldier said he was fired up to free all these these these people in 1943 the Japanese make a big people in 1943 the Japanese make a big people in 1943 the Japanese make a big show of um giving Independence to a show of um giving Independence to a show of um giving Independence to a bunch of these countries like Burma for bunch of these countries like Burma for bunch of these countries like Burma for example although they're not really example although they're not really example although they're not really giving it to them it's a great giving it to them it's a great giving it to them it's a great propaganda tool and back in 1941 to to propaganda tool and back in 1941 to to propaganda tool and back in 1941 to to name just one example the Japanese name just one example the Japanese name just one example the Japanese foreign minister said quote Japan is foreign minister said quote Japan is foreign minister said quote Japan is determined to shatter the white man's determined to shatter the white man's determined to shatter the white man's Mastery over all the Orient end quote if Mastery over all the Orient end quote if Mastery over all the Orient end quote if you are a a British man in London you are a a British man in London you are a a British man in London reading the London Times in the morning reading the London Times in the morning reading the London Times in the morning or a Frenchman in Paris doing the or a Frenchman in Paris doing the or a Frenchman in Paris doing the equivalent that sends a chill up your equivalent that sends a chill up your equivalent that sends a chill up your spine but if you're a Vietnamese person spine but if you're a Vietnamese person spine but if you're a Vietnamese person in French in French in French Indochina or a Burmese person in Burma Indochina or a Burmese person in Burma Indochina or a Burmese person in Burma or an Indian person in India and and or an Indian person in India and and or an Indian person in India and and many of those people if you look at the many of those people if you look at the many of those people if you look at the rules sometimes not all places were the rules sometimes not all places were the rules sometimes not all places were the same um but they're living under rules same um but they're living under rules same um but they're living under rules that make them seem like second class that make them seem like second class that make them seem like second class citizens some of the rules I've seen citizens some of the rules I've seen citizens some of the rules I've seen remind one of the Jim Crow south or remind one of the Jim Crow south or remind one of the Jim Crow south or apartheid South Africa well the Japanese apartheid South Africa well the Japanese apartheid South Africa well the Japanese driving out your Colonial rulers from driving out your Colonial rulers from driving out your Colonial rulers from from far away from your Homeland might from far away from your Homeland might from far away from your Homeland might look a lot more like Liberation than look a lot more like Liberation than look a lot more like Liberation than conquest and if the Japanese had only

conquest and if the Japanese had only conquest and if the Japanese had only been able to walk the walk a little bit been able to walk the walk a little bit been able to walk the walk a little bit better and live up to their hype a better and live up to their hype a better and live up to their hype a little bit who knows what they might little bit who knows what they might little bit who knows what they might have accomplished but as we've said over have accomplished but as we've said over have accomplished but as we've said over and over they didn't and I don't know if and over they didn't and I don't know if and over they didn't and I don't know if that's because it the entire thing was that's because it the entire thing was that's because it the entire thing was nothing this is what I learned growing nothing this is what I learned growing nothing this is what I learned growing up by the way but nothing but fig leaf up by the way but nothing but fig leaf up by the way but nothing but fig leaf for Japanese brutal imperialism the for Japanese brutal imperialism the for Japanese brutal imperialism the whole whole whole time or whether it was a case of the time or whether it was a case of the time or whether it was a case of the Japanese right hand not knowing or Japanese right hand not knowing or Japanese right hand not knowing or caring what the Japanese left hand was caring what the Japanese left hand was caring what the Japanese left hand was doing often times the military people doing often times the military people doing often times the military people seem a lot more dismissive of this idea seem a lot more dismissive of this idea seem a lot more dismissive of this idea of Asia for the asiatics and the of Asia for the asiatics and the of Asia for the asiatics and the Japanese is the tip of the spear for Japanese is the tip of the spear for Japanese is the tip of the spear for Asian Independence than Japanese Asian Independence than Japanese Asian Independence than Japanese intellectuals citizens or soldiers intellectuals citizens or soldiers intellectuals citizens or soldiers do it's a Cause Worth Dying For if you do it's a Cause Worth Dying For if you do it's a Cause Worth Dying For if you think about it though I mean many of the think about it though I mean many of the think about it though I mean many of the peoples fighting on the good guy side peoples fighting on the good guy side peoples fighting on the good guy side and the bad guy side and a whole lot of and the bad guy side and a whole lot of and the bad guy side and a whole lot of Wars think they're fighting for good Wars think they're fighting for good Wars think they're fighting for good reasons I'll never forget the Nazi reasons I'll never forget the Nazi reasons I'll never forget the Nazi daggers emblazoned with the phrase God daggers emblazoned with the phrase God daggers emblazoned with the phrase God Is With Is With Is With Us bottom line though is that even Us bottom line though is that even Us bottom line though is that even though something like that is a huge though something like that is a huge though something like that is a huge long shot the Japanese might be trying long shot the Japanese might be trying long shot the Japanese might be trying to Cloud seed a revolution here and to Cloud seed a revolution here and to Cloud seed a revolution here and that's a fascinating concept when you're that's a fascinating concept when you're that's a fascinating concept when you're down to your last few cards if India down to your last few cards if India down to your last few cards if India went sideways on the on the British you went sideways on the on the British you went sideways on the on the British you would have a circumstance where the would have a circumstance where the would have a circumstance where the great great great Supply Center for the entire Asia war Supply Center for the entire Asia war Supply Center for the entire Asia war from the British Empire would be

from the British Empire would be from the British Empire would be unusable or cut off according to unusable or cut off according to unusable or cut off according to Brigadier Peter Young in his book of Brigadier Peter Young in his book of Brigadier Peter Young in his book of dictionary of battles it's already dictionary of battles it's already dictionary of battles it's already happening with sabotage and everything happening with sabotage and everything happening with sabotage and everything else now as a guy who who'd rather swing else now as a guy who who'd rather swing else now as a guy who who'd rather swing for the fences at this point in the war for the fences at this point in the war for the fences at this point in the war if I'm the one playing the Japanese if I'm the one playing the Japanese if I'm the one playing the Japanese geostrategic hard hand or um throw a geostrategic hard hand or um throw a geostrategic hard hand or um throw a Hail Mary pass or put all of my chips on Hail Mary pass or put all of my chips on Hail Mary pass or put all of my chips on one last roll of the die or one spin of one last roll of the die or one spin of one last roll of the die or one spin of the roulette wheel this idea appeals to the roulette wheel this idea appeals to the roulette wheel this idea appeals to me a lot more than the Ichigo offensive me a lot more than the Ichigo offensive me a lot more than the Ichigo offensive the problem of course is the way it's the problem of course is the way it's the problem of course is the way it's carried carried carried out the Japanese do something here that out the Japanese do something here that out the Japanese do something here that once again I try to figure out an once again I try to figure out an once again I try to figure out an American equivalent if an American Army American equivalent if an American Army American equivalent if an American Army went into battle without enough supplies went into battle without enough supplies went into battle without enough supplies and the plan was to take a chance on and the plan was to take a chance on and the plan was to take a chance on them starving to death I wonder how the them starving to death I wonder how the them starving to death I wonder how the American people would react to that and American people would react to that and American people would react to that and the reason I bring it up is because the the reason I bring it up is because the the reason I bring it up is because the Japanese are going to do this multiple Japanese are going to do this multiple Japanese are going to do this multiple times in Burma there's a diversionary times in Burma there's a diversionary times in Burma there's a diversionary attack that they launched before the yug attack that they launched before the yug attack that they launched before the yug Yugo campaign in a place called aricon Yugo campaign in a place called aricon Yugo campaign in a place called aricon and the Japanese plan on not providing and the Japanese plan on not providing and the Japanese plan on not providing enough supplies for their troops I guess enough supplies for their troops I guess enough supplies for their troops I guess that's a good way to get get away from a that's a good way to get get away from a that's a good way to get get away from a supply problem right just don't supply supply problem right just don't supply supply problem right just don't supply enough but but the country is difficult enough but but the country is difficult enough but but the country is difficult to supply um to supply um to supply um regularly the Japanese will do the same regularly the Japanese will do the same regularly the Japanese will do the same thing in this Burma campaign where they thing in this Burma campaign where they thing in this Burma campaign where they send their troops to attack um infall send their troops to attack um infall send their troops to attack um infall and kohima are the places and only give and kohima are the places and only give and kohima are the places and only give them something like 20 or 21 days worth them something like 20 or 21 days worth them something like 20 or 21 days worth of supplies the goal they say is to take

of supplies the goal they say is to take of supplies the goal they say is to take what you need to live the bullets you what you need to live the bullets you what you need to live the bullets you need to fight the food you need to eat need to fight the food you need to eat need to fight the food you need to eat uh the medical supplies you need to take uh the medical supplies you need to take uh the medical supplies you need to take care of your wounded from the enemy care of your wounded from the enemy care of your wounded from the enemy after you defeat them which of course after you defeat them which of course after you defeat them which of course leads to the very interesting question leads to the very interesting question leads to the very interesting question what happens if you don't what happens if you don't what happens if you don't or what happens if you don't defeat them or what happens if you don't defeat them or what happens if you don't defeat them in time to have what you need before the in time to have what you need before the in time to have what you need before the supplies run supplies run supplies run out well it's a catastrophe out well it's a catastrophe out well it's a catastrophe right and while General mutaguchi is right and while General mutaguchi is right and while General mutaguchi is issuing press releases saying that this issuing press releases saying that this issuing press releases saying that this giant offensive is going to change the giant offensive is going to change the giant offensive is going to change the whole complexion of the war real raw raw whole complexion of the war real raw raw whole complexion of the war real raw raw stuff some of his divisional stuff some of his divisional stuff some of his divisional commanders clearly see what's about to commanders clearly see what's about to commanders clearly see what's about to happen here um in his book Hirohito or happen here um in his book Hirohito or happen here um in his book Hirohito or Francis Pike talks about one of them Francis Pike talks about one of them Francis Pike talks about one of them Lieutenant General I hope the name Lieutenant General I hope the name Lieutenant General I hope the name pronunciation is correct Sato and um pronunciation is correct Sato and um pronunciation is correct Sato and um sato's troops are going to have to cross sato's troops are going to have to cross sato's troops are going to have to cross the chindwin river which is sort of one the chindwin river which is sort of one the chindwin river which is sort of one of these big dividing lines in order to of these big dividing lines in order to of these big dividing lines in order to make these attacks and Pike writes quote make these attacks and Pike writes quote make these attacks and Pike writes quote Lieutenant General koku sat commanding Lieutenant General koku sat commanding Lieutenant General koku sat commanding the 31st Infantry Division had to the 31st Infantry Division had to the 31st Infantry Division had to transport his troops a thousand miles transport his troops a thousand miles transport his troops a thousand miles before the offensive was launched he was before the offensive was launched he was before the offensive was launched he was deeply pessimistic about the plans for deeply pessimistic about the plans for deeply pessimistic about the plans for the campaign though he was partially the campaign though he was partially the campaign though he was partially mollified by Promises of 250 tons of mollified by Promises of 250 tons of mollified by Promises of 250 tons of supplies before March 25th and then 10 supplies before March 25th and then 10 supplies before March 25th and then 10 tons per week afterwards none of these tons per week afterwards none of these tons per week afterwards none of these supplies actually arrived before leaving supplies actually arrived before leaving supplies actually arrived before leaving the chindwin pike writes Sato toasted

the chindwin pike writes Sato toasted the chindwin pike writes Sato toasted his fellow officers with champagne his fellow officers with champagne his fellow officers with champagne telling them quote I'll take the telling them quote I'll take the telling them quote I'll take the opportunity gentlemen of making opportunity gentlemen of making opportunity gentlemen of making something quite clear to you miracles something quite clear to you miracles something quite clear to you miracles apart everyone is likely to lose his apart everyone is likely to lose his apart everyone is likely to lose his life in this operation it isn't simply a life in this operation it isn't simply a life in this operation it isn't simply a question of the enemies bullets you must question of the enemies bullets you must question of the enemies bullets you must be prepared for death by starvation in be prepared for death by starvation in be prepared for death by starvation in these Mountain fastnesses end quote Pike these Mountain fastnesses end quote Pike these Mountain fastnesses end quote Pike then says they were prophetic words end then says they were prophetic words end then says they were prophetic words end quote now you don't see a lot of quote now you don't see a lot of quote now you don't see a lot of starvation I mean real like dying from starvation I mean real like dying from starvation I mean real like dying from Hunger starvation amongst modern armies Hunger starvation amongst modern armies Hunger starvation amongst modern armies but In fairness to the Japanese part of but In fairness to the Japanese part of but In fairness to the Japanese part of the problem here is the terrain it is the problem here is the terrain it is the problem here is the terrain it is awful country to try to get supplies to awful country to try to get supplies to awful country to try to get supplies to troops through troops through troops through so much of the asia-pacific theater is so much of the asia-pacific theater is so much of the asia-pacific theater is isn't it and we had used a line from isn't it and we had used a line from isn't it and we had used a line from several of my history books sort of a a several of my history books sort of a a several of my history books sort of a a sang amongst Japanese troops comparing sang amongst Japanese troops comparing sang amongst Japanese troops comparing the relative merits of places they might the relative merits of places they might the relative merits of places they might find themselves serving in like uh one find themselves serving in like uh one find themselves serving in like uh one of them was that um heaven was Java hell of them was that um heaven was Java hell of them was that um heaven was Java hell was Burma but no one returns alive from was Burma but no one returns alive from was Burma but no one returns alive from New Guinea and we were trying to point New Guinea and we were trying to point New Guinea and we were trying to point out when we said that how terrible a out when we said that how terrible a out when we said that how terrible a place to fight New Guinea was but Burma place to fight New Guinea was but Burma place to fight New Guinea was but Burma if if it's better is only better by the if if it's better is only better by the if if it's better is only better by the nth degree it has the same combination nth degree it has the same combination nth degree it has the same combination of wonderful terrain types that make a of wonderful terrain types that make a of wonderful terrain types that make a place like New Guinea so difficult to place like New Guinea so difficult to place like New Guinea so difficult to fight in heavy jungle with really high fight in heavy jungle with really high fight in heavy jungle with really high mountains it's on actually on the way to mountains it's on actually on the way to mountains it's on actually on the way to the Himalayan range so you get these the Himalayan range so you get these the Himalayan range so you get these 7,000 foot mountains with heavy jungle

7,000 foot mountains with heavy jungle 7,000 foot mountains with heavy jungle and the jungle is so heavy the British and the jungle is so heavy the British and the jungle is so heavy the British commander makes a mistake in thinking commander makes a mistake in thinking commander makes a mistake in thinking that the Japanese won't be able to get that the Japanese won't be able to get that the Japanese won't be able to get large numbers of troops through it he's large numbers of troops through it he's large numbers of troops through it he's wrong about that but the Japanese won't wrong about that but the Japanese won't wrong about that but the Japanese won't be able to get lots of supplies through be able to get lots of supplies through be able to get lots of supplies through through it which contributes to the through it which contributes to the through it which contributes to the starvation problem the other issue with starvation problem the other issue with starvation problem the other issue with terrain like this is it is absolutely terrain like this is it is absolutely terrain like this is it is absolutely made for Disease New Guinea is one of made for Disease New Guinea is one of made for Disease New Guinea is one of the wetest places in the world Burma's the wetest places in the world Burma's the wetest places in the world Burma's wetter up to 5 Ines of rain a day during wetter up to 5 Ines of rain a day during wetter up to 5 Ines of rain a day during the monsoon season and the monsoon the monsoon season and the monsoon the monsoon season and the monsoon season lasts half the year it pretty season lasts half the year it pretty season lasts half the year it pretty much shuts down military operations much shuts down military operations much shuts down military operations which is part of the reason why you which is part of the reason why you which is part of the reason why you haven't seen as much action in Burma haven't seen as much action in Burma haven't seen as much action in Burma although there's been skirmishing and although there's been skirmishing and although there's been skirmishing and and some things going on I mean you and some things going on I mean you and some things going on I mean you really only have half a campaign really only have half a campaign really only have half a campaign season but the disease is as bad as the season but the disease is as bad as the season but the disease is as bad as the worst places in the asia-pacific theater worst places in the asia-pacific theater worst places in the asia-pacific theater start with malaria and work your way start with malaria and work your way start with malaria and work your way down an exhaustive list the majority of down an exhaustive list the majority of down an exhaustive list the majority of casualties are caused by disease and not casualties are caused by disease and not casualties are caused by disease and not by enemy bullets and sometimes some of by enemy bullets and sometimes some of by enemy bullets and sometimes some of these units reach um disease casualty these units reach um disease casualty these units reach um disease casualty rates of like 600% and 600% means that rates of like 600% and 600% means that rates of like 600% and 600% means that people are coming back from recuperation people are coming back from recuperation people are coming back from recuperation again it again that new people are being again it again that new people are being again it again that new people are being brought in as Replacements and then brought in as Replacements and then brought in as Replacements and then they're getting sick it is completely they're getting sick it is completely they're getting sick it is completely muddy once the rain starts and there's muddy once the rain starts and there's muddy once the rain starts and there's only a few good modern roads and those only a few good modern roads and those only a few good modern roads and those places become the key points that are places become the key points that are places become the key points that are fought fought fought over the army that the Japanese are

over the army that the Japanese are over the army that the Japanese are fighting is one of the most diverse in fighting is one of the most diverse in fighting is one of the most diverse in the world and I often try to imagine the world and I often try to imagine the world and I often try to imagine myself as a Japanese soldier during this myself as a Japanese soldier during this myself as a Japanese soldier during this time period from a small island nation time period from a small island nation time period from a small island nation you find yourself in Burma and in in the you find yourself in Burma and in in the you find yourself in Burma and in in the north you're fighting Chinese troops and north you're fighting Chinese troops and north you're fighting Chinese troops and American troops sometimes Chinese and American troops sometimes Chinese and American troops sometimes Chinese and American troops together in this American troops together in this American troops together in this campaign you're fighting the British campaign you're fighting the British campaign you're fighting the British Empire whose armies are some of the most Empire whose armies are some of the most Empire whose armies are some of the most diverse ever fielded so you have your diverse ever fielded so you have your diverse ever fielded so you have your troops from Great Britain of course your troops from Great Britain of course your troops from Great Britain of course your Englishmen your Scotsman your welshmen Englishmen your Scotsman your welshmen Englishmen your Scotsman your welshmen I'm sure there are some Irish guys there I'm sure there are some Irish guys there I'm sure there are some Irish guys there there always seem to be but then you there always seem to be but then you there always seem to be but then you have a ton of Indians from all over have a ton of Indians from all over have a ton of Indians from all over India you have uh the famous giras from India you have uh the famous giras from India you have uh the famous giras from Nepal who fight with the British and Nepal who fight with the British and Nepal who fight with the British and then you have a bunch of people from then you have a bunch of people from then you have a bunch of people from subsaharan Africa East East and West subsaharan Africa East East and West subsaharan Africa East East and West Africa the colonial regions are called Africa the colonial regions are called Africa the colonial regions are called but those form a multitude of modern-day but those form a multitude of modern-day but those form a multitude of modern-day African countries the poor Japanese African countries the poor Japanese African countries the poor Japanese person is getting like a visual person is getting like a visual person is getting like a visual representation through the diversity of representation through the diversity of representation through the diversity of the army that they're facing of the the army that they're facing of the the army that they're facing of the depth of Allied power and resources depth of Allied power and resources depth of Allied power and resources right here here's the way Yasmin Khan in right here here's the way Yasmin Khan in right here here's the way Yasmin Khan in her book India at War describes the her book India at War describes the her book India at War describes the kickoff of this campaign when the kickoff of this campaign when the kickoff of this campaign when the Japanese in the first week of March push Japanese in the first week of March push Japanese in the first week of March push across the chindwin river and start this across the chindwin river and start this across the chindwin river and start this offensive quote the Japanese did make an offensive quote the Japanese did make an offensive quote the Japanese did make an ambitious incursion into Indian ambitious incursion into Indian ambitious incursion into Indian Territory but by 1944 the Allies were Territory but by 1944 the Allies were Territory but by 1944 the Allies were fully prepared for it in March 1944 the fully prepared for it in March 1944 the fully prepared for it in March 1944 the Japanese pushed into the Northeast and Japanese pushed into the Northeast and Japanese pushed into the Northeast and advanced along the imal dimapur road in advanced along the imal dimapur road in advanced along the imal dimapur road in an attempt to cut infal supply lines and

an attempt to cut infal supply lines and an attempt to cut infal supply lines and to capture the strategically pivotal to capture the strategically pivotal to capture the strategically pivotal kohima the 14th Army an Eclectic kohima the 14th Army an Eclectic kohima the 14th Army an Eclectic collection of nearly half a million collection of nearly half a million collection of nearly half a million troops including British infantrymen troops including British infantrymen troops including British infantrymen Canadian American Pilots the Assam Canadian American Pilots the Assam Canadian American Pilots the Assam rifles the king's African rifles and rifles the king's African rifles and rifles the king's African rifles and troops from the Gold Coast had been troops from the Gold Coast had been troops from the Gold Coast had been trained equipped and honed into a modern trained equipped and honed into a modern trained equipped and honed into a modern fighting force by now among the Infantry fighting force by now among the Infantry fighting force by now among the Infantry morale was high there was an effective morale was high there was an effective morale was high there was an effective organizational es deor and a powerful organizational es deor and a powerful organizational es deor and a powerful air support gave the Allies a distinct air support gave the Allies a distinct air support gave the Allies a distinct Advantage nonetheless the Japanese made Advantage nonetheless the Japanese made Advantage nonetheless the Japanese made a massive thrust sending in 85,000 men a massive thrust sending in 85,000 men a massive thrust sending in 85,000 men far more than had been expected and for far more than had been expected and for far more than had been expected and for a time it looked as if they might cut a time it looked as if they might cut a time it looked as if they might cut off and occupy Northeast India at kohima off and occupy Northeast India at kohima off and occupy Northeast India at kohima but in stark contrast to 1942 she writes but in stark contrast to 1942 she writes but in stark contrast to 1942 she writes the Japanese quickly became the Japanese quickly became the Japanese quickly became overstretched as their supply lines were overstretched as their supply lines were overstretched as their supply lines were bogged down over hundreds of miles of bogged down over hundreds of miles of bogged down over hundreds of miles of difficult terrain winding back into difficult terrain winding back into difficult terrain winding back into southeast Asia end southeast Asia end southeast Asia end quote basically what happens is the quote basically what happens is the quote basically what happens is the British are ready for this assault but British are ready for this assault but British are ready for this assault but it just happen sooner than they thought it just happen sooner than they thought it just happen sooner than they thought it was going to happen in Greater it was going to happen in Greater it was going to happen in Greater strength than they expected and more strength than they expected and more strength than they expected and more quickly than they'd accounted for which quickly than they'd accounted for which quickly than they'd accounted for which puts them at a disadvantage initially puts them at a disadvantage initially puts them at a disadvantage initially the Japanese are able to to get around the Japanese are able to to get around the Japanese are able to to get around the flanks of of of a bunch of units the flanks of of of a bunch of units the flanks of of of a bunch of units they cut one major Force off that has to they cut one major Force off that has to they cut one major Force off that has to fight its way out and then they fight its way out and then they fight its way out and then they basically surround their two areas that basically surround their two areas that basically surround their two areas that they're after infall and kohima kohima they're after infall and kohima kohima they're after infall and kohima kohima is a mountain uh Village that's that's

is a mountain uh Village that's that's is a mountain uh Village that's that's heavily jungled about 80 miles north of heavily jungled about 80 miles north of heavily jungled about 80 miles north of infall and the infall plane is is a infall and the infall plane is is a infall and the infall plane is is a large relatively open area um the large relatively open area um the large relatively open area um the Japanese will basically put both of them Japanese will basically put both of them Japanese will basically put both of them under siege and several times try to under siege and several times try to under siege and several times try to assault them and overrun them part of assault them and overrun them part of assault them and overrun them part of the reason for the heroism here is that the reason for the heroism here is that the reason for the heroism here is that not only are they cut off but the uh the not only are they cut off but the uh the not only are they cut off but the uh the British Imperial forces are badly British Imperial forces are badly British Imperial forces are badly outnumbered I think there's 15 to 20,000 outnumbered I think there's 15 to 20,000 outnumbered I think there's 15 to 20,000 Japanese attacking kohima for example Japanese attacking kohima for example Japanese attacking kohima for example and something like 1,800 Defenders at and something like 1,800 Defenders at and something like 1,800 Defenders at kohima uh this is actually it's funny kohima uh this is actually it's funny kohima uh this is actually it's funny this is both a little known Affair this is both a little known Affair this is both a little known Affair especially outside the British Empire uh especially outside the British Empire uh especially outside the British Empire uh and the Japanese uh Homeland today and and the Japanese uh Homeland today and and the Japanese uh Homeland today and yet that it was voted in 2013 I believe yet that it was voted in 2013 I believe yet that it was voted in 2013 I believe Britain's greatest battle of the modern Britain's greatest battle of the modern Britain's greatest battle of the modern era beating out such famous encounters era beating out such famous encounters era beating out such famous encounters as Napoleon's defeat at watero and the as Napoleon's defeat at watero and the as Napoleon's defeat at watero and the British Landings at Normandy on D-Day British Landings at Normandy on D-Day British Landings at Normandy on D-Day and yet the victory was won by an army and yet the victory was won by an army and yet the victory was won by an army that's known as The Forgotten Army so that's known as The Forgotten Army so that's known as The Forgotten Army so does that tell you does that tell you does that tell you something there's a couple of reasons something there's a couple of reasons something there's a couple of reasons that might explain this starting with that might explain this starting with that might explain this starting with the the the terrain I mean jungle and Mountain terrain I mean jungle and Mountain terrain I mean jungle and Mountain terrain has a way of frustrating large terrain has a way of frustrating large terrain has a way of frustrating large forces being used and in an earlier forces being used and in an earlier forces being used and in an earlier discussion when we were talking about discussion when we were talking about discussion when we were talking about guad canal and places like that we guad canal and places like that we guad canal and places like that we quoted from Eric Berger's book touched quoted from Eric Berger's book touched quoted from Eric Berger's book touched with fire where he talks about how so with fire where he talks about how so with fire where he talks about how so much of the fighting devolves down to much of the fighting devolves down to much of the fighting devolves down to like squads and companies and patrols like squads and companies and patrols like squads and companies and patrols and things like that that are very and things like that that are very and things like that that are very different than what the large armies in

different than what the large armies in different than what the large armies in say North Africa or the Western or say North Africa or the Western or say North Africa or the Western or Eastern front in Europe or even in Italy Eastern front in Europe or even in Italy Eastern front in Europe or even in Italy are dealing are dealing are dealing with in his book Japan's last bid for with in his book Japan's last bid for with in his book Japan's last bid for victory the invasion of India in 1944 victory the invasion of India in 1944 victory the invasion of India in 1944 author Robert Lyman describes it this author Robert Lyman describes it this author Robert Lyman describes it this way way way quote when Field Marshal sir archabald quote when Field Marshal sir archabald quote when Field Marshal sir archabald waval the vicroy of India visited waval the vicroy of India visited waval the vicroy of India visited headquarters 14th Army in August headquarters 14th Army in August headquarters 14th Army in August 1944 he was perplexed by the nature of 1944 he was perplexed by the nature of 1944 he was perplexed by the nature of the fighting describing it in a letter the fighting describing it in a letter the fighting describing it in a letter to London as taking place strangely in to London as taking place strangely in to London as taking place strangely in what he called Penny packets he was what he called Penny packets he was what he called Penny packets he was right the battle did not involve MK right the battle did not involve MK right the battle did not involve MK brigades and divisions fighting in brigades and divisions fighting in brigades and divisions fighting in carefully choreographed coherence on a carefully choreographed coherence on a carefully choreographed coherence on a perhaps traditional model if a normally perhaps traditional model if a normally perhaps traditional model if a normally chaotic Battlefield could ever be chaotic Battlefield could ever be chaotic Battlefield could ever be described thus but was instead Lyman described thus but was instead Lyman described thus but was instead Lyman writes a confused and disperate section writes a confused and disperate section writes a confused and disperate section and platoon sometimes company level and platoon sometimes company level and platoon sometimes company level struggle fought at many different points struggle fought at many different points struggle fought at many different points of the compass in the jungle matted of the compass in the jungle matted of the compass in the jungle matted Hills and Valleys encircling the infall Hills and Valleys encircling the infall Hills and Valleys encircling the infall plain and the swampy terrain around plain and the swampy terrain around plain and the swampy terrain around bishanpur none of the land battles were bishanpur none of the land battles were bishanpur none of the land battles were directly interconnected the struggles directly interconnected the struggles directly interconnected the struggles for the North and Northeast the South for the North and Northeast the South for the North and Northeast the South and Southeast being conducted largely and Southeast being conducted largely and Southeast being conducted largely Independent by both attacker and Independent by both attacker and Independent by both attacker and Defender end Defender end Defender end quote add to that the fact that battle quote add to that the fact that battle quote add to that the fact that battle is a very strange term to use for 20th is a very strange term to use for 20th is a very strange term to use for 20th century large scale conflict because

century large scale conflict because century large scale conflict because it's so different than all the previous it's so different than all the previous it's so different than all the previous eras that came before it when a battle eras that came before it when a battle eras that came before it when a battle usually meant one really horrible usually meant one really horrible usually meant one really horrible day the really terrible battles in human day the really terrible battles in human day the really terrible battles in human history up until the modern era are two history up until the modern era are two history up until the modern era are two or three days long now we're not talking or three days long now we're not talking or three days long now we're not talking about sieges which can go on for months about sieges which can go on for months about sieges which can go on for months or even years but a battle is generally or even years but a battle is generally or even years but a battle is generally something on a small enough area where something on a small enough area where something on a small enough area where if you can get above The Fray and the if you can get above The Fray and the if you can get above The Fray and the dust and the commotion and the chaos get dust and the commotion and the chaos get dust and the commotion and the chaos get up to a hill maybe with a little spy up to a hill maybe with a little spy up to a hill maybe with a little spy glass you can usually see the whole glass you can usually see the whole glass you can usually see the whole thing not here not in the 20th century thing not here not in the 20th century thing not here not in the 20th century you're better off referring to these you're better off referring to these you're better off referring to these things things to avoid confusion and things things to avoid confusion and things things to avoid confusion and they often are referred to instead of they often are referred to instead of they often are referred to instead of battles as battles as battles as operations operations that are the sum operations operations that are the sum operations operations that are the sum total of thousands of potentially fatal total of thousands of potentially fatal total of thousands of potentially fatal tasks so when you read the accounts of a tasks so when you read the accounts of a tasks so when you read the accounts of a veteran in these modern operations their veteran in these modern operations their veteran in these modern operations their entire War experience may be when they entire War experience may be when they entire War experience may be when they ran into a concealed gun in a hill a ran into a concealed gun in a hill a ran into a concealed gun in a hill a mile away from the road that they're on mile away from the road that they're on mile away from the road that they're on that shuts down road traffic until they that shuts down road traffic until they that shuts down road traffic until they can figure out a way to outflank the gun can figure out a way to outflank the gun can figure out a way to outflank the gun and take it out right that's one of and take it out right that's one of and take it out right that's one of those you know thousands of little those you know thousands of little those you know thousands of little potentially fatal tasks that when you potentially fatal tasks that when you potentially fatal tasks that when you add them all together equals an add them all together equals an add them all together equals an operation like the infall kohima operation like the infall kohima operation like the infall kohima campaign but it sure makes it less campaign but it sure makes it less campaign but it sure makes it less dramatic in the big picture sense and dramatic in the big picture sense and dramatic in the big picture sense and much harder to follow but in the small much harder to follow but in the small much harder to follow but in the small unit sense it is as dramatic and unit sense it is as dramatic and unit sense it is as dramatic and horrifying as any encounter you'll find

horrifying as any encounter you'll find horrifying as any encounter you'll find in the war maybe in the war maybe in the war maybe worse if you look at the big picture worse if you look at the big picture worse if you look at the big picture timeline in the first week of March the timeline in the first week of March the timeline in the first week of March the Japanese crossed the chindwin river as Japanese crossed the chindwin river as Japanese crossed the chindwin river as we had said they blow past the flanks of we had said they blow past the flanks of we had said they blow past the flanks of uh of one major unit surround it and it uh of one major unit surround it and it uh of one major unit surround it and it has to fight its way out then they has to fight its way out then they has to fight its way out then they Advance on infal and kohima and manage Advance on infal and kohima and manage Advance on infal and kohima and manage to put those places under to put those places under to put those places under siege if this had been uh an earlier siege if this had been uh an earlier siege if this had been uh an earlier War those places would be cut off and War those places would be cut off and War those places would be cut off and the British and Imperial troops in those the British and Imperial troops in those the British and Imperial troops in those places would begin to run out of places would begin to run out of places would begin to run out of ammunition they wouldn't have any ammunition they wouldn't have any ammunition they wouldn't have any reinforcements they would run out of reinforcements they would run out of reinforcements they would run out of medical supplies they would run out of medical supplies they would run out of medical supplies they would run out of food and that would be food and that would be food and that would be that the difference here though is and that the difference here though is and that the difference here though is and this is what frustrates the this is what frustrates the this is what frustrates the Japanese the Allies have the ability to Japanese the Allies have the ability to Japanese the Allies have the ability to supply the cut off areas by air this is supply the cut off areas by air this is supply the cut off areas by air this is huge and it's a new development right it huge and it's a new development right it huge and it's a new development right it was only really in the second world war was only really in the second world war was only really in the second world war that the capability existed to even try that the capability existed to even try that the capability existed to even try this and past attempts had been hit or this and past attempts had been hit or this and past attempts had been hit or missed to say the least I mean when the missed to say the least I mean when the missed to say the least I mean when the German Army is surrounded by the Soviets German Army is surrounded by the Soviets German Army is surrounded by the Soviets at at at Stalingrad the um Luft wafa tries to fly Stalingrad the um Luft wafa tries to fly Stalingrad the um Luft wafa tries to fly in supplies and they can't manage to in supplies and they can't manage to in supplies and they can't manage to provide anywhere near enough for a provide anywhere near enough for a provide anywhere near enough for a starving Army running out of ammunition starving Army running out of ammunition starving Army running out of ammunition that has to that has to that has to surrender but here uh there are American surrender but here uh there are American surrender but here uh there are American Air assets that have been flying Air assets that have been flying Air assets that have been flying supplies over What's called the hump

supplies over What's called the hump supplies over What's called the hump which are a bunch of mountain ranges which are a bunch of mountain ranges which are a bunch of mountain ranges into China it's also called the Skyway into China it's also called the Skyway into China it's also called the Skyway to hell and the British are able to to hell and the British are able to to hell and the British are able to borrow some of these big heavy Supply borrow some of these big heavy Supply borrow some of these big heavy Supply planes uh to add to their Spitfire and planes uh to add to their Spitfire and planes uh to add to their Spitfire and hurricane Fighters which they're using hurricane Fighters which they're using hurricane Fighters which they're using in a mostly ground attack role to change in a mostly ground attack role to change in a mostly ground attack role to change the entire equation and begin to supply the entire equation and begin to supply the entire equation and begin to supply their cut off troops with what they need their cut off troops with what they need their cut off troops with what they need to keep fighting and recall the Japanese to keep fighting and recall the Japanese to keep fighting and recall the Japanese have only a limited amount of this stuff have only a limited amount of this stuff have only a limited amount of this stuff themselves they can't do the Air Supply themselves they can't do the Air Supply themselves they can't do the Air Supply thing and if they can't take the thing and if they can't take the thing and if they can't take the supplies of the people that they cut off supplies of the people that they cut off supplies of the people that they cut off and are fighting at infall and kohima and are fighting at infall and kohima and are fighting at infall and kohima they're going to run out of supplies they're going to run out of supplies they're going to run out of supplies themselves I like the way the British themselves I like the way the British themselves I like the way the British general in charge of this operation general in charge of this operation general in charge of this operation describes it his name by the way is describes it his name by the way is describes it his name by the way is Lieutenant General William slim he's a Lieutenant General William slim he's a Lieutenant General William slim he's a very fine General he cops to his uh very fine General he cops to his uh very fine General he cops to his uh mistakes initially here underestimating mistakes initially here underestimating mistakes initially here underestimating the Japanese speed and size and whether the Japanese speed and size and whether the Japanese speed and size and whether or not they can get through the jungle or not they can get through the jungle or not they can get through the jungle with their troops but then explains with their troops but then explains with their troops but then explains really the entire battle in the terms really the entire battle in the terms really the entire battle in the terms that will decide it and he says quote as that will decide it and he says quote as that will decide it and he says quote as I struggled hard to redress my errors I struggled hard to redress my errors I struggled hard to redress my errors and to speed by Rail and air these and to speed by Rail and air these and to speed by Rail and air these reinforcements I knew that all depended reinforcements I knew that all depended reinforcements I knew that all depended on the steadfastness of the troops on the steadfastness of the troops on the steadfastness of the troops already meeting the first impetus of already meeting the first impetus of already meeting the first impetus of attack if they could hold until help attack if they could hold until help attack if they could hold until help arrived all would be well if not we were arrived all would be well if not we were arrived all would be well if not we were near disaster end quote so that's what near disaster end quote so that's what near disaster end quote so that's what has to happen and the Air Supply helps

has to happen and the Air Supply helps has to happen and the Air Supply helps but bottom line it's a question of but bottom line it's a question of but bottom line it's a question of heroism and I am not a glory guy when it heroism and I am not a glory guy when it heroism and I am not a glory guy when it comes to war put me in the camp of uh comes to war put me in the camp of uh comes to war put me in the camp of uh the William tumsa Sherman the American the William tumsa Sherman the American the William tumsa Sherman the American General who had said that War's glory is General who had said that War's glory is General who had said that War's glory is all moonshine I don't think killing all moonshine I don't think killing all moonshine I don't think killing other people's glorious but I think other people's glorious but I think other people's glorious but I think surviving against incredible surviving against incredible surviving against incredible odds putting up with the privation and odds putting up with the privation and odds putting up with the privation and the hardship enduring the the hardship enduring the the hardship enduring the unendurable for the sake of whatever is unendurable for the sake of whatever is unendurable for the sake of whatever is motivating you to do so can often be motivating you to do so can often be motivating you to do so can often be heroic and it's a shame that things like heroic and it's a shame that things like heroic and it's a shame that things like the colonial overtones or if you're the the colonial overtones or if you're the the colonial overtones or if you're the Japanese or the Germans the evil cause Japanese or the Germans the evil cause Japanese or the Germans the evil cause in which you're you're fighting that in which you're you're fighting that in which you're you're fighting that that somehow or sometimes overshadows that somehow or sometimes overshadows that somehow or sometimes overshadows the heroism of the troops the heroism of the troops the heroism of the troops involved um rarely do you read combat involved um rarely do you read combat involved um rarely do you read combat accounts where the troops are talking accounts where the troops are talking accounts where the troops are talking about things like um you know a German about things like um you know a German about things like um you know a German soldier saying he's ready to fight and soldier saying he's ready to fight and soldier saying he's ready to fight and die for more laan's realm for Germany die for more laan's realm for Germany die for more laan's realm for Germany right or an American who's fighting and right or an American who's fighting and right or an American who's fighting and dying for the larger cause of freedom dying for the larger cause of freedom dying for the larger cause of freedom for the world or a Japanese soldier for the world or a Japanese soldier for the world or a Japanese soldier who's fighting and dying um to conquer who's fighting and dying um to conquer who's fighting and dying um to conquer and and control other Asian peoples or and and control other Asian peoples or and and control other Asian peoples or even a British soldier uh from Kent even a British soldier uh from Kent even a British soldier uh from Kent maybe or a place like that ready to lay maybe or a place like that ready to lay maybe or a place like that ready to lay down his life so Britain can maintain down his life so Britain can maintain down his life so Britain can maintain its Colonial dominance of a place like its Colonial dominance of a place like its Colonial dominance of a place like India that's generally not what it's India that's generally not what it's India that's generally not what it's about at bottom line of course it's

about at bottom line of course it's about at bottom line of course it's about killer be killed but above that about killer be killed but above that about killer be killed but above that you'll read so many accounts where you'll read so many accounts where you'll read so many accounts where soldiers are fighting for their comrades soldiers are fighting for their comrades soldiers are fighting for their comrades or their unit or the espr core of the or their unit or the espr core of the or their unit or the espr core of the group that they belong to or maybe just group that they belong to or maybe just group that they belong to or maybe just to not let down uh those other people to not let down uh those other people to not let down uh those other people that are depending on them I mean it's that are depending on them I mean it's that are depending on them I mean it's very Baseline stuff your your world view very Baseline stuff your your world view very Baseline stuff your your world view and your your horizon shrinks and the and your your horizon shrinks and the and your your horizon shrinks and the lens you view things through is very lens you view things through is very lens you view things through is very narrow and um narrow and um narrow and um immediate so I don't like the idea that immediate so I don't like the idea that immediate so I don't like the idea that um and and this is a problem in India I um and and this is a problem in India I um and and this is a problem in India I read that the Indians have a hard time read that the Indians have a hard time read that the Indians have a hard time sometimes trying to figure out how to sometimes trying to figure out how to sometimes trying to figure out how to portray this whole affair because it's portray this whole affair because it's portray this whole affair because it's so overshadowed with the colonial so overshadowed with the colonial so overshadowed with the colonial question were Indian troops fighting question were Indian troops fighting question were Indian troops fighting with the British mercenaries fighting with the British mercenaries fighting with the British mercenaries fighting for the colonial master or were they for the colonial master or were they for the colonial master or were they Heroes fighting for post-war Indian Heroes fighting for post-war Indian Heroes fighting for post-war Indian independence I mean it's it's a independence I mean it's it's a independence I mean it's it's a complicated question and as John Tolan complicated question and as John Tolan complicated question and as John Tolan wrote in his book The Rising Sun this wrote in his book The Rising Sun this wrote in his book The Rising Sun this whole Burma campaign is an ideological whole Burma campaign is an ideological whole Burma campaign is an ideological and Geographic nightmare but that and Geographic nightmare but that and Geographic nightmare but that shouldn't overshadow what was done there shouldn't overshadow what was done there shouldn't overshadow what was done there by all the soldiers on all sides I mean by all the soldiers on all sides I mean by all the soldiers on all sides I mean read some of the read some of the read some of the accounts first of all the Japanese threw accounts first of all the Japanese threw accounts first of all the Japanese threw themselves at the enemy wave after wave themselves at the enemy wave after wave themselves at the enemy wave after wave sometimes sometimes sometimes suicidally uh the British general U slim suicidally uh the British general U slim suicidally uh the British general U slim was very critical of the throwing away was very critical of the throwing away was very critical of the throwing away of Japanese of Japanese of Japanese lives he also had a true admiration for lives he also had a true admiration for lives he also had a true admiration for the Japanese uh as a fighting people

the Japanese uh as a fighting people the Japanese uh as a fighting people because because because um well let me just quote what's said in um well let me just quote what's said in um well let me just quote what's said in um Robert lyman's book Japan's last bid um Robert lyman's book Japan's last bid um Robert lyman's book Japan's last bid for victory quote with the difficulties for victory quote with the difficulties for victory quote with the difficulties posed by the climate came a stark posed by the climate came a stark posed by the climate came a stark reminder to any British Commonwealth reminder to any British Commonwealth reminder to any British Commonwealth troops who had not yet experienced the troops who had not yet experienced the troops who had not yet experienced the toughness of their adversary of just how toughness of their adversary of just how toughness of their adversary of just how extraordinarily fit and physically Hardy extraordinarily fit and physically Hardy extraordinarily fit and physically Hardy were the Japanese how committed they were the Japanese how committed they were the Japanese how committed they were to achieving their objectives how were to achieving their objectives how were to achieving their objectives how apparently unconcerned they were with apparently unconcerned they were with apparently unconcerned they were with regard to human Comforts and how regard to human Comforts and how regard to human Comforts and how determined they were to do what the determined they were to do what the determined they were to do what the emperor through their officers demanded emperor through their officers demanded emperor through their officers demanded or die in the attempt repeated fanatical or die in the attempt repeated fanatical or die in the attempt repeated fanatical and suicidal attacks were thrown at the and suicidal attacks were thrown at the and suicidal attacks were thrown at the British Indian and girka Defenders and British Indian and girka Defenders and British Indian and girka Defenders and counterattacks had to face the toughest counterattacks had to face the toughest counterattacks had to face the toughest defensive positions imaginable prepared defensive positions imaginable prepared defensive positions imaginable prepared by men whom General slim was to describe by men whom General slim was to describe by men whom General slim was to describe as Warrior ants as the days went by the as Warrior ants as the days went by the as Warrior ants as the days went by the battlefield became one large charnal battlefield became one large charnal battlefield became one large charnal house littered with bodies in various house littered with bodies in various house littered with bodies in various states of decomposition as it was rarely states of decomposition as it was rarely states of decomposition as it was rarely easy to recover and bury the dead end easy to recover and bury the dead end easy to recover and bury the dead end quote you can even look by the way at quote you can even look by the way at quote you can even look by the way at the at the at the photographs and as the the at the at the photographs and as the the at the at the photographs and as the battle goes on the areas that are highly battle goes on the areas that are highly battle goes on the areas that are highly fought over go from you know heavy lush fought over go from you know heavy lush fought over go from you know heavy lush jungle where you can't see 5T in front jungle where you can't see 5T in front jungle where you can't see 5T in front of your face to terrain that looks like of your face to terrain that looks like of your face to terrain that looks like First World War battlefields especially First World War battlefields especially First World War battlefields especially the ones that used to be forests but the ones that used to be forests but the ones that used to be forests but have been shelled have been shelled have been shelled into Wasteland into Wasteland into Wasteland General slim actually says that the

General slim actually says that the General slim actually says that the battle for kohima is the only one he'd battle for kohima is the only one he'd battle for kohima is the only one he'd seen in the second world war that seen in the second world war that seen in the second world war that reminded him of the first world war hard reminded him of the first world war hard reminded him of the first world war hard to know which is different kohima the to know which is different kohima the to know which is different kohima the British forces the Imperial forces were British forces the Imperial forces were British forces the Imperial forces were so badly outnumbered that they so badly outnumbered that they so badly outnumbered that they eventually get um uh pushed in onto one eventually get um uh pushed in onto one eventually get um uh pushed in onto one Hill of something like 350 square meters Hill of something like 350 square meters Hill of something like 350 square meters and they will be fighting over an over a and they will be fighting over an over a and they will be fighting over an over a tennis court an actual it's called the tennis court an actual it's called the tennis court an actual it's called the tennis court um where the Japanese are tennis court um where the Japanese are tennis court um where the Japanese are on one side of the tennis court fighting on one side of the tennis court fighting on one side of the tennis court fighting British Imperial forces on the other British Imperial forces on the other British Imperial forces on the other side of the tennis court and they're side of the tennis court and they're side of the tennis court and they're throwing grenades at each other for days throwing grenades at each other for days throwing grenades at each other for days and days and and days and and days and days that's not glorious but it's heroic days that's not glorious but it's heroic days that's not glorious but it's heroic on both on both on both sides in his book hero hitto's War sides in his book hero hitto's War sides in his book hero hitto's War author Francis Pike tries to give a author Francis Pike tries to give a author Francis Pike tries to give a sense of what the fighting was like and sense of what the fighting was like and sense of what the fighting was like and writes quote most famously there was a writes quote most famously there was a writes quote most famously there was a 5-day tussle across the tennis courts 5-day tussle across the tennis courts 5-day tussle across the tennis courts belonging to the deputy commissioner's belonging to the deputy commissioner's belonging to the deputy commissioner's Bungalow soldiers dug in on either side Bungalow soldiers dug in on either side Bungalow soldiers dug in on either side had to live through torrential rain and had to live through torrential rain and had to live through torrential rain and eat [ __ ] and sleep in their trenches the eat [ __ ] and sleep in their trenches the eat [ __ ] and sleep in their trenches the courts were covered in the bloated courts were covered in the bloated courts were covered in the bloated bodies of slain Japanese soldiers bodies of slain Japanese soldiers bodies of slain Japanese soldiers enormous black flies filled the air the enormous black flies filled the air the enormous black flies filled the air the stench of death was gut-wrenching Major stench of death was gut-wrenching Major stench of death was gut-wrenching Major John nettlefield observed quote the John nettlefield observed quote the John nettlefield observed quote the place stank the ground everywhere was place stank the ground everywhere was place stank the ground everywhere was plowed up with shell fire and human plowed up with shell fire and human plowed up with shell fire and human remains lay rotting as the battle raged remains lay rotting as the battle raged remains lay rotting as the battle raged over them over them over them flies swarmed everywhere and multiplied

flies swarmed everywhere and multiplied flies swarmed everywhere and multiplied with Incredible speed men wretched as with Incredible speed men wretched as with Incredible speed men wretched as they dug in end quote Pike continues they dug in end quote Pike continues they dug in end quote Pike continues quote hand grenades rather than tennis quote hand grenades rather than tennis quote hand grenades rather than tennis balls crisscross the courts the balls crisscross the courts the balls crisscross the courts the resilience of the Defenders proved the resilience of the Defenders proved the resilience of the Defenders proved the morale that General slim had instilled morale that General slim had instilled morale that General slim had instilled in his troops in one notable engagement in his troops in one notable engagement in his troops in one notable engagement John Harmon son of the millionaire owner John Harmon son of the millionaire owner John Harmon son of the millionaire owner of Lundy Island a lance corporal with of Lundy Island a lance corporal with of Lundy Island a lance corporal with the Queen's Royal West Kent regiment the Queen's Royal West Kent regiment the Queen's Royal West Kent regiment single handedly charged a Japanese single handedly charged a Japanese single handedly charged a Japanese trench killed its five occupants before trench killed its five occupants before trench killed its five occupants before being fatally shot returning to his own being fatally shot returning to his own being fatally shot returning to his own lines dying in his company Commander's lines dying in his company Commander's lines dying in his company Commander's arms he gave his last words I got the arms he gave his last words I got the arms he gave his last words I got the lot it was worth it end lot it was worth it end lot it was worth it end quote but this is unsustainable for the quote but this is unsustainable for the quote but this is unsustainable for the Japanese because unlike their opponents Japanese because unlike their opponents Japanese because unlike their opponents they are running out of they are running out of they are running out of supplies and not just food but supplies and not just food but supplies and not just food but ammunition bullets shells medical stuff ammunition bullets shells medical stuff ammunition bullets shells medical stuff everything when you look at the um everything when you look at the um everything when you look at the um numbers that the Japanese units were numbers that the Japanese units were numbers that the Japanese units were reduced to I have a hard time finding reduced to I have a hard time finding reduced to I have a hard time finding similar numbers in any conflict anywhere similar numbers in any conflict anywhere similar numbers in any conflict anywhere because normally units break and run because normally units break and run because normally units break and run before they hit those kinds of numbers I before they hit those kinds of numbers I before they hit those kinds of numbers I mean in one um situation that Pike mean in one um situation that Pike mean in one um situation that Pike recalls um one soldier says that the recalls um one soldier says that the recalls um one soldier says that the losses had been Dreadful the regiment losses had been Dreadful the regiment losses had been Dreadful the regiment had started out 3,800 strong and now had started out 3,800 strong and now had started out 3,800 strong and now just had a few hundred men left and many just had a few hundred men left and many just had a few hundred men left and many of them invalids General Sato asks his Superior General

General Sato asks his Superior General mutaguchi a man uh often referred to as mutaguchi a man uh often referred to as mutaguchi a man uh often referred to as a blockhead by some of his subordinates a blockhead by some of his subordinates a blockhead by some of his subordinates permission to retreat he's denied he permission to retreat he's denied he permission to retreat he's denied he asks again and he's denied and then says asks again and he's denied and then says asks again and he's denied and then says quote this is shameful mutaguchi should quote this is shameful mutaguchi should quote this is shameful mutaguchi should apologize for his own failure to the apologize for his own failure to the apologize for his own failure to the dead soldiers and the Japanese people dead soldiers and the Japanese people dead soldiers and the Japanese people end quote General mud Gucci's response end quote General mud Gucci's response end quote General mud Gucci's response is to sack General Sato and send a is to sack General Sato and send a is to sack General Sato and send a subordinate with a sword to him so he subordinate with a sword to him so he subordinate with a sword to him so he can kill himself which sat refuses to do can kill himself which sat refuses to do can kill himself which sat refuses to do mutaguchi will do the unthinkable here mutaguchi will do the unthinkable here mutaguchi will do the unthinkable here and Sack three of his divisional and Sack three of his divisional and Sack three of his divisional generals one for incompetence one for generals one for incompetence one for generals one for incompetence one for ill health and Sato for Disobedience ill health and Sato for Disobedience ill health and Sato for Disobedience Sato doesn't care he orders his troops Sato doesn't care he orders his troops Sato doesn't care he orders his troops to retreat right around the same time to retreat right around the same time to retreat right around the same time that the monsoons open up the Japanese on the the Japanese on the defensive are just as difficult for the defensive are just as difficult for the defensive are just as difficult for the Allies to deal with as they are on the Allies to deal with as they are on the Allies to deal with as they are on the offensive and they they have to be dug offensive and they they have to be dug offensive and they they have to be dug out position by position at huge cost to out position by position at huge cost to out position by position at huge cost to the Allied soldiers who have to do the Allied soldiers who have to do the Allied soldiers who have to do this in his book Japan's last bid for this in his book Japan's last bid for this in his book Japan's last bid for victory author Robert Lyman tries to victory author Robert Lyman tries to victory author Robert Lyman tries to give a sense of how hard it was to dig give a sense of how hard it was to dig give a sense of how hard it was to dig the ja Japanese out of these defensive the ja Japanese out of these defensive the ja Japanese out of these defensive positions he says that the uh British positions he says that the uh British positions he says that the uh British Imperial forces ate away slowly at the

Imperial forces ate away slowly at the Imperial forces ate away slowly at the Japanese defenses and said quote nowhere Japanese defenses and said quote nowhere Japanese defenses and said quote nowhere were sudden gains made but by gradual were sudden gains made but by gradual were sudden gains made but by gradual perseverance and the application of perseverance and the application of perseverance and the application of focused Firepower the Japanese were focused Firepower the Japanese were focused Firepower the Japanese were destroyed bunker by bunker trench by destroyed bunker by bunker trench by destroyed bunker by bunker trench by trench rarely did the Japanese run or trench rarely did the Japanese run or trench rarely did the Japanese run or Retreat remaining to die where they Retreat remaining to die where they Retreat remaining to die where they fought Lieutenant Lind Horn haet of the fought Lieutenant Lind Horn haet of the fought Lieutenant Lind Horn haet of the dorsets considered the Japanese to be dorsets considered the Japanese to be dorsets considered the Japanese to be magnificent trench Warriors quote every magnificent trench Warriors quote every magnificent trench Warriors quote every army in the world talks about holding army in the world talks about holding army in the world talks about holding positions to the last man virtually no positions to the last man virtually no positions to the last man virtually no other Army including the Germans ever other Army including the Germans ever other Army including the Germans ever did but the Japs did their positions did but the Japs did their positions did but the Japs did their positions were well-sited and they had a good eye were well-sited and they had a good eye were well-sited and they had a good eye for ground they relied on rushing and for ground they relied on rushing and for ground they relied on rushing and shouting in the attack we thought they shouting in the attack we thought they shouting in the attack we thought they were formidable fighting insects and were formidable fighting insects and were formidable fighting insects and Savages we took few prisoners about one Savages we took few prisoners about one Savages we took few prisoners about one or two in the whole War we wanted PR or two in the whole War we wanted PR or two in the whole War we wanted PR prisoners but wounded men would have a prisoners but wounded men would have a prisoners but wounded men would have a primed grenade under them so stretcher primed grenade under them so stretcher primed grenade under them so stretcher bearers were very careful end quote British General William slim quote British General William slim concurs and he says quoted in Francis concurs and he says quoted in Francis concurs and he says quoted in Francis Pike's Book Pike's Book Pike's Book quote whatever his thoughts about the quote whatever his thoughts about the quote whatever his thoughts about the capabilities of Japanese commanders slim capabilities of Japanese commanders slim capabilities of Japanese commanders slim was profuse in his admiration for was profuse in his admiration for was profuse in his admiration for Japanese troops quote there can be no Japanese troops quote there can be no Japanese troops quote there can be no question of the Supreme courage and question of the Supreme courage and question of the Supreme courage and Hardy hood of the Japanese soldiers who Hardy hood of the Japanese soldiers who Hardy hood of the Japanese soldiers who made the attempts I know of no Army that made the attempts I know of no Army that made the attempts I know of no Army that could have equaled them end

could have equaled them end could have equaled them end quote reading of the Japanese quote reading of the Japanese quote reading of the Japanese experiences in the experiences in the experiences in the retreat is retreat is retreat is horrifying they literally are starving horrifying they literally are starving horrifying they literally are starving to death when the Skies open up and the to death when the Skies open up and the to death when the Skies open up and the rain start it turns into a wetter rain start it turns into a wetter rain start it turns into a wetter version of Napoleon's Retreat from version of Napoleon's Retreat from version of Napoleon's Retreat from Moscow the troops are committing suicide Moscow the troops are committing suicide Moscow the troops are committing suicide left and right um the Japanese refer to left and right um the Japanese refer to left and right um the Japanese refer to the road out as the road of human the road out as the road of human the road out as the road of human remains it's often translated into the remains it's often translated into the remains it's often translated into the road of road of road of Bones um there are many stories of of Bones um there are many stories of of Bones um there are many stories of of soldiers taking grenades sometimes in soldiers taking grenades sometimes in soldiers taking grenades sometimes in pairs and they will Embrace their pairs and they will Embrace their pairs and they will Embrace their comrade and and blow up a grenade comrade and and blow up a grenade comrade and and blow up a grenade between them there are medical orderly between them there are medical orderly between them there are medical orderly injecting wounded troops with something injecting wounded troops with something injecting wounded troops with something to kill them quickly to kill them quickly to kill them quickly um the eating grass potatoes snails um the eating grass potatoes snails um the eating grass potatoes snails lizards snakes monkeys anything they can lizards snakes monkeys anything they can lizards snakes monkeys anything they can get their hands get their hands get their hands on it's one of the worst Retreats I've on it's one of the worst Retreats I've on it's one of the worst Retreats I've ever read about and when it's over the ever read about and when it's over the ever read about and when it's over the Japanese between the fighting in kohima Japanese between the fighting in kohima Japanese between the fighting in kohima infall infall was under siege by the way infall infall was under siege by the way infall infall was under siege by the way for like 88 days before it was broken for like 88 days before it was broken for like 88 days before it was broken and the diversionary attack in the and the diversionary attack in the and the diversionary attack in the arican area about 65,000 Japanese arican area about 65,000 Japanese arican area about 65,000 Japanese die most of those fatalities occurred die most of those fatalities occurred die most of those fatalities occurred during the during the during the retreat and were caused by by either retreat and were caused by by either retreat and were caused by by either suicide disease or suicide disease or suicide disease or starvation the Allies suffered a starvation the Allies suffered a starvation the Allies suffered a fraction of the number of

fraction of the number of fraction of the number of deaths and um according to author John deaths and um according to author John deaths and um according to author John Tolland Tolland Tolland quote in all 65,000 men died more than quote in all 65,000 men died more than quote in all 65,000 men died more than two and a half times the number lost on two and a half times the number lost on two and a half times the number lost on gu canal and about as many as fell on gu canal and about as many as fell on gu canal and about as many as fell on Ley mutaguchi his chief of staff and Ley mutaguchi his chief of staff and Ley mutaguchi his chief of staff and Senior staff officers were relieved of Senior staff officers were relieved of Senior staff officers were relieved of their posts as was kawab and his chief their posts as was kawab and his chief their posts as was kawab and his chief of staff the command shakeup and the of staff the command shakeup and the of staff the command shakeup and the destruction of the 15th Army the destruction of the 15th Army the destruction of the 15th Army the Japanese 15th Army infected every other Japanese 15th Army infected every other Japanese 15th Army infected every other unit in Burma and by the end of the year unit in Burma and by the end of the year unit in Burma and by the end of the year Japanese rule was at the point of Japanese rule was at the point of Japanese rule was at the point of collapse end collapse end collapse end quote this is one of the worst defeats quote this is one of the worst defeats quote this is one of the worst defeats in Japanese history some historical in Japanese history some historical in Japanese history some historical sources call it the worst defeat they'd sources call it the worst defeat they'd sources call it the worst defeat they'd ever suffered uh up till this time ever suffered uh up till this time ever suffered uh up till this time and yet interestingly enough this is and yet interestingly enough this is and yet interestingly enough this is considered to be a subsidiary front in considered to be a subsidiary front in considered to be a subsidiary front in the war because it's not a decisive one the war because it's not a decisive one the war because it's not a decisive one as we said if you're going to play a as we said if you're going to play a as we said if you're going to play a bunch of cards what can this card do to bunch of cards what can this card do to bunch of cards what can this card do to Forstall Japanese defeat which is coming Forstall Japanese defeat which is coming Forstall Japanese defeat which is coming at an increasingly rapid Pace from the at an increasingly rapid Pace from the at an increasingly rapid Pace from the other Geographic Direction entirely from other Geographic Direction entirely from other Geographic Direction entirely from the the the Pacific the Pacific was the last thing Pacific the Pacific was the last thing Pacific the Pacific was the last thing we were talking about when we left off we were talking about when we left off we were talking about when we left off the last segment we were in mid the last segment we were in mid the last segment we were in mid 1944 the Americans had just taken Guam 1944 the Americans had just taken Guam 1944 the Americans had just taken Guam sipan tiny and the Marian

sipan tiny and the Marian sipan tiny and the Marian islands and before the last Japanese islands and before the last Japanese islands and before the last Japanese snipers are cleared out of the trees the snipers are cleared out of the trees the snipers are cleared out of the trees the American uh Naval construction American uh Naval construction American uh Naval construction engineering people the CBS are out there engineering people the CBS are out there engineering people the CBS are out there building building building airfields and this means the Japanese airfields and this means the Japanese airfields and this means the Japanese are on the clock and they know it they are on the clock and they know it they are on the clock and they know it they can do the math they realize these can do the math they realize these can do the math they realize these islands are probably in range round trip islands are probably in range round trip islands are probably in range round trip of America's brand new super bomber the of America's brand new super bomber the of America's brand new super bomber the b29 never used against Germany by the b29 never used against Germany by the b29 never used against Germany by the way looks like a early 1950s Cold War way looks like a early 1950s Cold War way looks like a early 1950s Cold War bomber rather than a second world war bomber rather than a second world war bomber rather than a second world war bomber and as soon as they can get them bomber and as soon as they can get them bomber and as soon as they can get them to these islands get all of the to these islands get all of the to these islands get all of the necessary support materials together and necessary support materials together and necessary support materials together and these airfields finished the bombing these airfields finished the bombing these airfields finished the bombing starts and the Japanese do not have to starts and the Japanese do not have to starts and the Japanese do not have to imagine what it might be like to have imagine what it might be like to have imagine what it might be like to have their cities bombed they can look at their cities bombed they can look at their cities bombed they can look at real photographs of what's Happening to real photographs of what's Happening to real photographs of what's Happening to their aess partner Germany right their aess partner Germany right their aess partner Germany right now by 1945 by the end of the war um I now by 1945 by the end of the war um I now by 1945 by the end of the war um I believe amongst mid and large siiz believe amongst mid and large siiz believe amongst mid and large siiz German cities only heidleberg is German cities only heidleberg is German cities only heidleberg is significantly untouched I'm going for significantly untouched I'm going for significantly untouched I'm going for memory here but as I recall hi highberg memory here but as I recall hi highberg memory here but as I recall hi highberg special in that regard you want to go special in that regard you want to go special in that regard you want to go see what Germany used to look like you see what Germany used to look like you see what Germany used to look like you got to go to heidleberg unless you want got to go to heidleberg unless you want got to go to heidleberg unless you want to see a recreation I was in Munich and to see a recreation I was in Munich and to see a recreation I was in Munich and um they've rebuilt some of it to look um they've rebuilt some of it to look um they've rebuilt some of it to look just like it looked before but it has a just like it looked before but it has a just like it looked before but it has a feel to me when you're used to the old feel to me when you're used to the old feel to me when you're used to the old buildings of like a movie set but what buildings of like a movie set but what buildings of like a movie set but what are they supposed to do that generation are they supposed to do that generation are they supposed to do that generation in Germany um created the conditions in Germany um created the conditions in Germany um created the conditions where the cultural architectural where the cultural architectural where the cultural architectural Heritage of Germans forever into the

Heritage of Germans forever into the Heritage of Germans forever into the future is gone and they're not the only future is gone and they're not the only future is gone and they're not the only ones who suffer it's a cultural Monument ones who suffer it's a cultural Monument ones who suffer it's a cultural Monument that we all suffer because it's that we all suffer because it's that we all suffer because it's gone significant that one generation of gone significant that one generation of gone significant that one generation of human beings could cost I mean it's the human beings could cost I mean it's the human beings could cost I mean it's the same thing Churchill looked at when he same thing Churchill looked at when he same thing Churchill looked at when he saw the films of of the German cities in saw the films of of the German cities in saw the films of of the German cities in rubble and wondered if if this was a rubble and wondered if if this was a rubble and wondered if if this was a bridge too far to win the war but if you bridge too far to win the war but if you bridge too far to win the war but if you look at how events unfolded it all is look at how events unfolded it all is look at how events unfolded it all is pretty understandable you can see how pretty understandable you can see how pretty understandable you can see how people got sucked into this idea that um people got sucked into this idea that um people got sucked into this idea that um anything's better than losing this war anything's better than losing this war anything's better than losing this war total war and anything means using total war and anything means using total war and anything means using everything you have and there are a lot everything you have and there are a lot everything you have and there are a lot of people arguing that this bombing of people arguing that this bombing of people arguing that this bombing stuff shortens Wars and as we've seen stuff shortens Wars and as we've seen stuff shortens Wars and as we've seen the human being lawnmower is at work at the human being lawnmower is at work at the human being lawnmower is at work at all times every day racking up its daily all times every day racking up its daily all times every day racking up its daily totals if you shut the war down um totals if you shut the war down um totals if you shut the war down um months early well that's that many daily months early well that's that many daily months early well that's that many daily totals that don't you know go into the totals that don't you know go into the totals that don't you know go into the fiery furnace it's it's logical insanity fiery furnace it's it's logical insanity fiery furnace it's it's logical insanity is the way it's been is the way it's been is the way it's been described if the Japanese were described if the Japanese were described if the Japanese were reasonable people they would surrender reasonable people they would surrender reasonable people they would surrender now see there's many points in 1944 now see there's many points in 1944 now see there's many points in 1944 where you go okay now would be a really where you go okay now would be a really where you go okay now would be a really good time to spare your cities and the good time to spare your cities and the good time to spare your cities and the cultural heritage of the Japanese people cultural heritage of the Japanese people cultural heritage of the Japanese people and all that for the and all that for the and all that for the future but part of what makes the future but part of what makes the future but part of what makes the Japanese so compelling I mean 500 years Japanese so compelling I mean 500 years Japanese so compelling I mean 500 years from now when the the young people are from now when the the young people are from now when the the young people are reading the history and getting reading the history and getting reading the history and getting interested in the subjects Japan is interested in the subjects Japan is interested in the subjects Japan is going to be I think compelling the way going to be I think compelling the way going to be I think compelling the way that many other people throughout the that many other people throughout the that many other people throughout the past who were willing to past who were willing to past who were willing to fight for their country right this is a fight for their country right this is a fight for their country right this is a kind of a patriotic sort of a feeling

kind of a patriotic sort of a feeling kind of a patriotic sort of a feeling taken to extremes and then becoming taken to extremes and then becoming taken to extremes and then becoming poisonous and we talked about this poisonous and we talked about this poisonous and we talked about this earlier in this series didn't we we earlier in this series didn't we we earlier in this series didn't we we called it super called it super called it super patriotism the Japanese are going to go patriotism the Japanese are going to go patriotism the Japanese are going to go to lengths that you admire because it to lengths that you admire because it to lengths that you admire because it shows how far the human Spirit can be shows how far the human Spirit can be shows how far the human Spirit can be pushed right it's interesting to see pushed right it's interesting to see pushed right it's interesting to see some of our extremes at the same time some of our extremes at the same time some of our extremes at the same time it's debilitating to watch because it's it's debilitating to watch because it's it's debilitating to watch because it's often being used in a way uh that seems often being used in a way uh that seems often being used in a way uh that seems wasteful doesn't have to happen and wasteful doesn't have to happen and wasteful doesn't have to happen and that's why sometimes you'll read these that's why sometimes you'll read these that's why sometimes you'll read these books about the kamakazi for example and books about the kamakazi for example and books about the kamakazi for example and they will they will make it beautiful in they will they will make it beautiful in they will they will make it beautiful in a Japanese cultural sense and talk about a Japanese cultural sense and talk about a Japanese cultural sense and talk about the falling of the cherry blossoms and the falling of the cherry blossoms and the falling of the cherry blossoms and these sorts of things um in order to put these sorts of things um in order to put these sorts of things um in order to put some sort of an artistic or spiritual some sort of an artistic or spiritual some sort of an artistic or spiritual coding on the idea of a young man with coding on the idea of a young man with coding on the idea of a young man with his whole life ahead of him flying his his whole life ahead of him flying his his whole life ahead of him flying his airplane extra loaded with bombs into an airplane extra loaded with bombs into an airplane extra loaded with bombs into an allied ship now I've read the letters from ship now I've read the letters from kamakazi pilots and and you get all kamakazi pilots and and you get all kamakazi pilots and and you get all sorts of different people who do that sorts of different people who do that sorts of different people who do that for all sorts of different reasons it's for all sorts of different reasons it's for all sorts of different reasons it's not this monolithic fanatical robot not this monolithic fanatical robot not this monolithic fanatical robot image we thought of them when I was image we thought of them when I was image we thought of them when I was growing up not at all but there's a growing up not at all but there's a growing up not at all but there's a number of people out there that think number of people out there that think number of people out there that think that this is what you should be doing if that this is what you should be doing if that this is what you should be doing if you love your country right same thing you love your country right same thing you love your country right same thing these Japanese soldiers did when they these Japanese soldiers did when they these Japanese soldiers did when they would strap themselves and put a mine on would strap themselves and put a mine on would strap themselves and put a mine on their back and then run under an their back and then run under an their back and then run under an American or or a British tank and blow

American or or a British tank and blow American or or a British tank and blow themselves themselves themselves up most armies don't do that the up most armies don't do that the up most armies don't do that the Japanese are like everyone else only Japanese are like everyone else only Japanese are like everyone else only more so right and the b29 countdown has more so right and the b29 countdown has more so right and the b29 countdown has begun once the these Marianas Islands begun once the these Marianas Islands begun once the these Marianas Islands have fallen into US have fallen into US have fallen into US hands the question of what to do next is hands the question of what to do next is hands the question of what to do next is Paramount at this particular time and Paramount at this particular time and Paramount at this particular time and the high command of the Allies disagrees the high command of the Allies disagrees the high command of the Allies disagrees over what this should be and the main over what this should be and the main over what this should be and the main disagreement is within the United States disagreement is within the United States disagreement is within the United States chain of command the Army and the Navy chain of command the Army and the Navy chain of command the Army and the Navy have different ideas on how the rest of have different ideas on how the rest of have different ideas on how the rest of the war should go both sides would like the war should go both sides would like the war should go both sides would like to sort of end up at least off the coast to sort of end up at least off the coast to sort of end up at least off the coast of Japan as the end destination but the of Japan as the end destination but the of Japan as the end destination but the path to get there well the Navy has one path to get there well the Navy has one path to get there well the Navy has one idea under Admiral Ernest King who's a idea under Admiral Ernest King who's a idea under Admiral Ernest King who's a tough customer um and the Army in this tough customer um and the Army in this tough customer um and the Army in this situation he's not the general of the situation he's not the general of the situation he's not the general of the army that would be George Marshall but army that would be George Marshall but army that would be George Marshall but but the guy whose opinion matters in but the guy whose opinion matters in but the guy whose opinion matters in this situation is our old friend Douglas this situation is our old friend Douglas this situation is our old friend Douglas the situation the situation the situation MacArthur who comes to Hawaii in mid1 MacArthur who comes to Hawaii in mid1 MacArthur who comes to Hawaii in mid1 1944 for a big strategy conference over 1944 for a big strategy conference over 1944 for a big strategy conference over what to do next and uh Franklin delanor what to do next and uh Franklin delanor what to do next and uh Franklin delanor Roosevelt's going to be there which is a Roosevelt's going to be there which is a Roosevelt's going to be there which is a huge deal I mean when you look at how huge deal I mean when you look at how huge deal I mean when you look at how really really sick Franklin Roosevelt is really really sick Franklin Roosevelt is really really sick Franklin Roosevelt is in been 1944 I mean it is not too much in been 1944 I mean it is not too much in been 1944 I mean it is not too much to say that he is dying I've read a to say that he is dying I've read a to say that he is dying I've read a bunch of good books lately that talk bunch of good books lately that talk bunch of good books lately that talk about how uh pretty much everyone who about how uh pretty much everyone who about how uh pretty much everyone who hadn't seen him for a while he shocked

hadn't seen him for a while he shocked hadn't seen him for a while he shocked when they do even MacArthur wrote that when they do even MacArthur wrote that when they do even MacArthur wrote that after seeing him he just knew he didn't after seeing him he just knew he didn't after seeing him he just knew he didn't have a long time left and by the way have a long time left and by the way have a long time left and by the way Roosevelt is running for office at this Roosevelt is running for office at this Roosevelt is running for office at this time for his fourth no other president time for his fourth no other president time for his fourth no other president has ever been elected more than twice or has ever been elected more than twice or has ever been elected more than twice or run more than twice I mean uh Roosevelt run more than twice I mean uh Roosevelt run more than twice I mean uh Roosevelt is dying and he's going for his fourth is dying and he's going for his fourth is dying and he's going for his fourth term I love the uh the whole sort of term I love the uh the whole sort of term I love the uh the whole sort of reality series um mood that is cast when reality series um mood that is cast when reality series um mood that is cast when this conference kicks off because uh this conference kicks off because uh this conference kicks off because uh Roosevelt arrives he's the Navy's Roosevelt arrives he's the Navy's Roosevelt arrives he's the Navy's waiting for them everybody's you know waiting for them everybody's you know waiting for them everybody's you know very CU When the president shows up you very CU When the president shows up you very CU When the president shows up you know everybody salutes a lot and know everybody salutes a lot and know everybody salutes a lot and everybody's everything's been prepared everybody's everything's been prepared everybody's everything's been prepared and everybody's ready and and um and and everybody's ready and and um and and everybody's ready and and um and Douglas Arthur is not there at the Douglas Arthur is not there at the Douglas Arthur is not there at the meeting with the president he doesn't meeting with the president he doesn't meeting with the president he doesn't show he doesn't show up for 40 minutes show he doesn't show up for 40 minutes show he doesn't show up for 40 minutes and I love the way author Jonathan W and I love the way author Jonathan W and I love the way author Jonathan W Jordan describes it in his book American Jordan describes it in his book American Jordan describes it in his book American Warlords um President Roosevelt is on Warlords um President Roosevelt is on Warlords um President Roosevelt is on the USS Baltimore with the Navy guys and the USS Baltimore with the Navy guys and the USS Baltimore with the Navy guys and they've been waiting for like 40 minutes they've been waiting for like 40 minutes they've been waiting for like 40 minutes and that's where the narrative picks up and that's where the narrative picks up and that's where the narrative picks up quote 40 minutes after Baltimore's gang quote 40 minutes after Baltimore's gang quote 40 minutes after Baltimore's gang plank was lowered to the pier the air plank was lowered to the pier the air plank was lowered to the pier the air was split by the shriek of a police was split by the shriek of a police was split by the shriek of a police siren a motorcycle escort appeared siren a motorcycle escort appeared siren a motorcycle escort appeared leading what Sam rosenman remembered as leading what Sam rosenman remembered as leading what Sam rosenman remembered as quote the longest open car I've ever quote the longest open car I've ever quote the longest open car I've ever seen in front was a chauffeur in khaki seen in front was a chauffeur in khaki seen in front was a chauffeur in khaki and in the back one loone figure end and in the back one loone figure end and in the back one loone figure end quote Jordan continues quote that figure quote Jordan continues quote that figure quote Jordan continues quote that figure wore a crushed General's hat and a brown

wore a crushed General's hat and a brown wore a crushed General's hat and a brown leather jacket Mr catch had arrived let leather jacket Mr catch had arrived let leather jacket Mr catch had arrived let me stop the narrative real quick Mr me stop the narrative real quick Mr me stop the narrative real quick Mr catch was um the code name or the catch was um the code name or the catch was um the code name or the something like that for MacArthur that something like that for MacArthur that something like that for MacArthur that the president than the other side had so the president than the other side had so the president than the other side had so this was Mr catch Mr catch had arrived this was Mr catch Mr catch had arrived this was Mr catch Mr catch had arrived MacArthur's car drove to the gang plank MacArthur's car drove to the gang plank MacArthur's car drove to the gang plank to the wild Applause of the crowd he to the wild Applause of the crowd he to the wild Applause of the crowd he bounded up the ramp stopping halfway to bounded up the ramp stopping halfway to bounded up the ramp stopping halfway to acknowledge another round of applause acknowledge another round of applause acknowledge another round of applause then stro onto the Cruisers deck he then stro onto the Cruisers deck he then stro onto the Cruisers deck he saluted the commanderin-chief before saluted the commanderin-chief before saluted the commanderin-chief before shaking Roosevelt's outstretched hand shaking Roosevelt's outstretched hand shaking Roosevelt's outstretched hand hello Douglas said Roosevelt what are hello Douglas said Roosevelt what are hello Douglas said Roosevelt what are you doing with that leather jacket on you doing with that leather jacket on you doing with that leather jacket on it's darn hot today well I've just it's darn hot today well I've just it's darn hot today well I've just landed from Australia MacArthur said landed from Australia MacArthur said landed from Australia MacArthur said with a smile it's pretty cold up there with a smile it's pretty cold up there with a smile it's pretty cold up there end end end quote well Jordan points out that quote well Jordan points out that quote well Jordan points out that MacArthur had actually had time to shave MacArthur had actually had time to shave MacArthur had actually had time to shave and get ready in the whole thing he wore and get ready in the whole thing he wore and get ready in the whole thing he wore the leather jacket for effect that's his the leather jacket for effect that's his the leather jacket for effect that's his branding like the corn cob pipe in the branding like the corn cob pipe in the branding like the corn cob pipe in the crushed hat and he's in Hawaii and he crushed hat and he's in Hawaii and he crushed hat and he's in Hawaii and he shows up in the whole Garb because he's shows up in the whole Garb because he's shows up in the whole Garb because he's in costume I mean uniform he's an in costume I mean uniform he's an in costume I mean uniform he's an interesting see and we' said this before interesting see and we' said this before interesting see and we' said this before you have to acknowledge I think anyway you have to acknowledge I think anyway you have to acknowledge I think anyway Douglas MacArthur's military Talent Douglas MacArthur's military Talent Douglas MacArthur's military Talent sometimes he does extraordinary things sometimes he does extraordinary things sometimes he does extraordinary things but he is an interesting but he is an interesting but he is an interesting guy talks about himself in the third guy talks about himself in the third guy talks about himself in the third person as we said before no one who person as we said before no one who person as we said before no one who talks about himself in the third person talks about himself in the third person talks about himself in the third person is your normal kind of customer just is your normal kind of customer just is your normal kind of customer just going to make a broad brush statement going to make a broad brush statement going to make a broad brush statement about

about about that George likes Spicy Chicken Little that George likes Spicy Chicken Little that George likes Spicy Chicken Little Seinfeld joke there for you Seinfeld Seinfeld joke there for you Seinfeld Seinfeld joke there for you Seinfeld fans MacArthur's favorite pronoun fans MacArthur's favorite pronoun fans MacArthur's favorite pronoun is is is I and it's the one he used when he was I and it's the one he used when he was I and it's the one he used when he was forced out of the Philippines by the forced out of the Philippines by the forced out of the Philippines by the Japanese way back in 1942 I shall return Japanese way back in 1942 I shall return Japanese way back in 1942 I shall return it's one of the most famous phrases of it's one of the most famous phrases of it's one of the most famous phrases of all time but as we pointed out at the all time but as we pointed out at the all time but as we pointed out at the time there were a bunch of historians in time there were a bunch of historians in time there were a bunch of historians in contemporar who were saying you know he contemporar who were saying you know he contemporar who were saying you know he should have said the United States will should have said the United States will should have said the United States will return or or something but but he made return or or something but but he made return or or something but but he made it personal and because he made it it personal and because he made it it personal and because he made it personal um it's one of the things that personal um it's one of the things that personal um it's one of the things that goes into his argument that he makes it goes into his argument that he makes it goes into his argument that he makes it this strategy conference about you know this strategy conference about you know this strategy conference about you know what should happen next well he said we what should happen next well he said we what should happen next well he said we should go back to the Philippines I'm should go back to the Philippines I'm should go back to the Philippines I'm going to going to going to return and he he gave a whole host of return and he he gave a whole host of return and he he gave a whole host of good reasons why that should be the way good reasons why that should be the way good reasons why that should be the way you know sort of to Japan let's take the you know sort of to Japan let's take the you know sort of to Japan let's take the Philippines we promise those people we Philippines we promise those people we Philippines we promise those people we have PS in there that the Japanese will have PS in there that the Japanese will have PS in there that the Japanese will kill a lot of good reasons um but part kill a lot of good reasons um but part kill a lot of good reasons um but part of it was he you know he'd made a of it was he you know he'd made a of it was he you know he'd made a promise and this was wrapped up in his promise and this was wrapped up in his promise and this was wrapped up in his Destiny Destiny Destiny somehow and he wanted to go through the somehow and he wanted to go through the somehow and he wanted to go through the Philippines and then you go up toward Philippines and then you go up toward Philippines and then you go up toward okanawa which is uh it's Japanese but okanawa which is uh it's Japanese but okanawa which is uh it's Japanese but not Japanese it depends on who you talk not Japanese it depends on who you talk not Japanese it depends on who you talk to talk to okona they have a different to talk to okona they have a different to talk to okona they have a different opinion sometimes but but it's it's opinion sometimes but but it's it's opinion sometimes but but it's it's considered a home Island and then from considered a home Island and then from considered a home Island and then from okanawa you keep going what what the okanawa you keep going what what the okanawa you keep going what what the Americans need is a place that can serve Americans need is a place that can serve Americans need is a place that can serve the same role that Great Britain serves the same role that Great Britain serves the same role that Great Britain serves in the Normandy Landings you know on in the Normandy Landings you know on in the Normandy Landings you know on D-Day you had a big place where you D-Day you had a big place where you D-Day you had a big place where you could you could get all your troops could you could get all your troops could you could get all your troops together and all the supplies you need

together and all the supplies you need together and all the supplies you need and and build up and then boom cross the and and build up and then boom cross the and and build up and then boom cross the water and you're there and your supply water and you're there and your supply water and you're there and your supply hubs right off the shore the problem is hubs right off the shore the problem is hubs right off the shore the problem is there's nothing right off the shore from there's nothing right off the shore from there's nothing right off the shore from Japan so if you take the Philippines and Japan so if you take the Philippines and Japan so if you take the Philippines and you decide that this is going to be your you decide that this is going to be your you decide that this is going to be your big Supply Hub where you can uh gather big Supply Hub where you can uh gather big Supply Hub where you can uh gather troops together for the eventual troops together for the eventual troops together for the eventual invasion of Japan it's still a long sea invasion of Japan it's still a long sea invasion of Japan it's still a long sea ride to Japan from ride to Japan from ride to Japan from there the Navy uh Ernest King Admiral there the Navy uh Ernest King Admiral there the Navy uh Ernest King Admiral Ernest King has sent uh he wanted to Ernest King has sent uh he wanted to Ernest King has sent uh he wanted to come himself but maybe the actual come himself but maybe the actual come himself but maybe the actual face-to-face meeting at a strategy face-to-face meeting at a strategy face-to-face meeting at a strategy session between a guy like MacArthur and session between a guy like MacArthur and session between a guy like MacArthur and a guy like King and we talked about what a guy like King and we talked about what a guy like King and we talked about what they were like earlier might have been they were like earlier might have been they were like earlier might have been too many Sparks for Franklin Delan or too many Sparks for Franklin Delan or too many Sparks for Franklin Delan or Roosevelt to keep from blowing up so he Roosevelt to keep from blowing up so he Roosevelt to keep from blowing up so he he sends a subordinate he sends Admiral he sends a subordinate he sends Admiral he sends a subordinate he sends Admiral Nimitz who he then accuses of not having Nimitz who he then accuses of not having Nimitz who he then accuses of not having a spine and he'll never represent things a spine and he'll never represent things a spine and he'll never represent things against He he'll get eaten up by Douglas against He he'll get eaten up by Douglas against He he'll get eaten up by Douglas MacArthur was basically the gist of his MacArthur was basically the gist of his MacArthur was basically the gist of his statements and Douglas MacArthur statements and Douglas MacArthur statements and Douglas MacArthur prevails in the strategy session because prevails in the strategy session because prevails in the strategy session because the Navy wants to go take Formosa which the Navy wants to go take Formosa which the Navy wants to go take Formosa which is modern day Taiwan uh and use that as is modern day Taiwan uh and use that as is modern day Taiwan uh and use that as the Big Supply base that they can start the Big Supply base that they can start the Big Supply base that they can start the Japan attack the Japan attack the Japan attack from MacArthur wins out though uh in in from MacArthur wins out though uh in in from MacArthur wins out though uh in in the long run on this deal but that the long run on this deal but that the long run on this deal but that doesn't stop the Navy Advance the island doesn't stop the Navy Advance the island doesn't stop the Navy Advance the island hopping that's been going on now for a hopping that's been going on now for a hopping that's been going on now for a long time and the Marianas Islands long time and the Marianas Islands long time and the Marianas Islands campaign we just talked about is the campaign we just talked about is the campaign we just talked about is the latest Island hop so that's going to latest Island hop so that's going to latest Island hop so that's going to continue through the Central Pacific too continue through the Central Pacific too continue through the Central Pacific too so think of two routes of approach to so think of two routes of approach to so think of two routes of approach to Japan MacArthur is going to go up Japan MacArthur is going to go up Japan MacArthur is going to go up through the Philippines and that route through the Philippines and that route through the Philippines and that route um the US Fleet and the Marines and some um the US Fleet and the Marines and some um the US Fleet and the Marines and some Army help is going to go through the Army help is going to go through the Army help is going to go through the Central Pacific you know next major stop

Central Pacific you know next major stop Central Pacific you know next major stop on the list EO gima but there's going to on the list EO gima but there's going to on the list EO gima but there's going to be a little quick thing that the Navy be a little quick thing that the Navy be a little quick thing that the Navy wants to take care of first or I've wants to take care of first or I've wants to take care of first or I've actually read a lot about about this cuz actually read a lot about about this cuz actually read a lot about about this cuz it's controversial how an island chain it's controversial how an island chain it's controversial how an island chain like the island chain that contains the like the island chain that contains the like the island chain that contains the island of pelo how that ends up on the island of pelo how that ends up on the island of pelo how that ends up on the to-do list um eventually because there's to-do list um eventually because there's to-do list um eventually because there's a lot of history that suggest that it a lot of history that suggest that it a lot of history that suggest that it was supposed to be crossed off or that was supposed to be crossed off or that was supposed to be crossed off or that it never should have H I mean there's it never should have H I mean there's it never should have H I mean there's it's interesting and the reason it it's interesting and the reason it it's interesting and the reason it actually matters is because what will actually matters is because what will actually matters is because what will happen on pelo is not what is expected happen on pelo is not what is expected happen on pelo is not what is expected to happen on pelo and when things go to happen on pelo and when things go to happen on pelo and when things go wrong people ask questions for a long wrong people ask questions for a long wrong people ask questions for a long time afterwards right when you lose a time afterwards right when you lose a time afterwards right when you lose a lot of Marines people start going uh was lot of Marines people start going uh was lot of Marines people start going uh was this trip really necessary and pelo is this trip really necessary and pelo is this trip really necessary and pelo is controversial that way pelo is a a controversial that way pelo is a a controversial that way pelo is a a little island it's a coral reef little island it's a coral reef little island it's a coral reef basically um sort of off the coast of basically um sort of off the coast of basically um sort of off the coast of the Philippines a ways and one of the the Philippines a ways and one of the the Philippines a ways and one of the arguments for why this was necessary is arguments for why this was necessary is arguments for why this was necessary is it was going to take these islands so it was going to take these islands so it was going to take these islands so they couldn't use air bases against they couldn't use air bases against they couldn't use air bases against MacArthur when he lands in the not too MacArthur when he lands in the not too MacArthur when he lands in the not too distant distant distant Philippines well the prediction is is Philippines well the prediction is is Philippines well the prediction is is that they'll go in there uh they'll take that they'll go in there uh they'll take that they'll go in there uh they'll take these islands two days maybe four days these islands two days maybe four days these islands two days maybe four days should be a Shar little fight little should be a Shar little fight little should be a Shar little fight little like teraa so it's going to be rough for like teraa so it's going to be rough for like teraa so it's going to be rough for a very short period of time but maybe a very short period of time but maybe a very short period of time but maybe really rough and instead the situation really rough and instead the situation really rough and instead the situation on pelo turns into a kind of on pelo turns into a kind of on pelo turns into a kind of disaster it turns into um I've I've seen disaster it turns into um I've I've seen disaster it turns into um I've I've seen it called the worst combat that the US it called the worst combat that the US it called the worst combat that the US Marines ever Marines ever Marines ever saw I think that's arguable but the saw I think that's arguable but the saw I think that's arguable but the invasion of pelo is something that

invasion of pelo is something that invasion of pelo is something that reminds me of what the Japanese had reminds me of what the Japanese had reminds me of what the Japanese had wanted to do in in terms of their grand wanted to do in in terms of their grand wanted to do in in terms of their grand strategy y of taking all these islands strategy y of taking all these islands strategy y of taking all these islands and then forcing the Americans and the and then forcing the Americans and the and then forcing the Americans and the British and the Australians and the new British and the Australians and the new British and the Australians and the new zealanders and the South Africans and on zealanders and the South Africans and on zealanders and the South Africans and on and on and on to take them back at super and on and on to take them back at super and on and on to take them back at super high cost because the Japanese were high cost because the Japanese were high cost because the Japanese were going to reinforce these places have going to reinforce these places have going to reinforce these places have guns everywhere and steel doors and it guns everywhere and steel doors and it guns everywhere and steel doors and it was going to be like something kind of a was going to be like something kind of a was going to be like something kind of a James Bond film but they never really James Bond film but they never really James Bond film but they never really did that on the outer Islands very much did that on the outer Islands very much did that on the outer Islands very much on pelo though it's sort of let's call on pelo though it's sort of let's call on pelo though it's sort of let's call it the model home for what the Japanese it the model home for what the Japanese it the model home for what the Japanese would have liked to have seen all these would have liked to have seen all these would have liked to have seen all these islands built up to a level of I mean islands built up to a level of I mean islands built up to a level of I mean when you have when you have metal doors when you have when you have metal doors when you have when you have metal doors that open up and a gun pops up and fires that open up and a gun pops up and fires that open up and a gun pops up and fires and goes back inside and the metal doors and goes back inside and the metal doors and goes back inside and the metal doors Clos I'm calling that James bondes Clos I'm calling that James bondes Clos I'm calling that James bondes that's the kind of stuff that the people that's the kind of stuff that the people that's the kind of stuff that the people who landed on pelu got to deal with that who landed on pelu got to deal with that who landed on pelu got to deal with that and the fact that they're on an absolute and the fact that they're on an absolute and the fact that they're on an absolute Coral atal it is not dirt it is rock and Coral atal it is not dirt it is rock and Coral atal it is not dirt it is rock and it is usually around 110° or more in the it is usually around 110° or more in the it is usually around 110° or more in the daytime on a rock this is one of those campaigns by rock this is one of those campaigns by the way that you wish there was more the way that you wish there was more the way that you wish there was more more visual material to see you know more visual material to see you know more visual material to see you know photographs movies those kind of things photographs movies those kind of things photographs movies those kind of things but I read that because the military had but I read that because the military had but I read that because the military had told the media that this was going to be told the media that this was going to be told the media that this was going to be over in two or four days right a quick over in two or four days right a quick over in two or four days right a quick short sharp fight uh most of them chose short sharp fight uh most of them chose short sharp fight uh most of them chose to go elsewhere right there's lots of to go elsewhere right there's lots of to go elsewhere right there's lots of other stories in the Pacific how about other stories in the Pacific how about other stories in the Pacific how about MacArthur uh planning to come back to MacArthur uh planning to come back to MacArthur uh planning to come back to the Philippines right we can go cover the Philippines right we can go cover the Philippines right we can go cover that and so you don't get pelo because that and so you don't get pelo because that and so you don't get pelo because you didn't know pelo was going to be you didn't know pelo was going to be you didn't know pelo was going to be what pelo is one of the Marine Corps the

what pelo is one of the Marine Corps the what pelo is one of the Marine Corps the US Marine corps's toughest battles ever US Marine corps's toughest battles ever US Marine corps's toughest battles ever and when you see see the lineage of the and when you see see the lineage of the and when you see see the lineage of the US Marines from the second world war um US Marines from the second world war um US Marines from the second world war um it is one of those place of honor sorts it is one of those place of honor sorts it is one of those place of honor sorts of battles but it wasn't supposed to of battles but it wasn't supposed to of battles but it wasn't supposed to be there's lots of good accounts um the be there's lots of good accounts um the be there's lots of good accounts um the Marines land uh on September 15th uh Marines land uh on September 15th uh Marines land uh on September 15th uh first Marine Regiment of the first first Marine Regiment of the first first Marine Regiment of the first Marine Division uh the fifth is there Marine Division uh the fifth is there Marine Division uh the fifth is there the seventh is there the 11th is the seventh is there the 11th is the seventh is there the 11th is providing artillary support and they're providing artillary support and they're providing artillary support and they're expecting the Japanese to do what the expecting the Japanese to do what the expecting the Japanese to do what the Japanese have done on the other islands Japanese have done on the other islands Japanese have done on the other islands and the Americans are doing what they've and the Americans are doing what they've and the Americans are doing what they've done just better right pounding the done just better right pounding the done just better right pounding the beach with you know heavy duty weapons beach with you know heavy duty weapons beach with you know heavy duty weapons from the Cruisers offshore and the from the Cruisers offshore and the from the Cruisers offshore and the battleships offshore and then the battleships offshore and then the battleships offshore and then the bombers come in strafe the beaches bomb bombers come in strafe the beaches bomb bombers come in strafe the beaches bomb the heck out of everything but the the heck out of everything but the the heck out of everything but the Japanese don't do what they've done in Japanese don't do what they've done in Japanese don't do what they've done in their other battles no Bonsai charges on their other battles no Bonsai charges on their other battles no Bonsai charges on the beach to waste away their strength the beach to waste away their strength the beach to waste away their strength none of that sort of stuff they're going none of that sort of stuff they're going none of that sort of stuff they're going to oppose the American landing on the to oppose the American landing on the to oppose the American landing on the beach lightly but then require the beach lightly but then require the beach lightly but then require the Americans to go and get them Americans to go and get them Americans to go and get them in their prepared positions in what is in their prepared positions in what is in their prepared positions in what is one of the better fortresses you will one of the better fortresses you will one of the better fortresses you will ever see that was designed by Japanese ever see that was designed by Japanese ever see that was designed by Japanese Engineers um more than 500 tunnels on Engineers um more than 500 tunnels on Engineers um more than 500 tunnels on the island many of which had been used the island many of which had been used the island many of which had been used for mining purposes so they're for mining purposes so they're for mining purposes so they're interconnected and they go to logical interconnected and they go to logical interconnected and they go to logical places and they're designed in a in a places and they're designed in a in a places and they're designed in a in a sort of strategic sense there are going sort of strategic sense there are going sort of strategic sense there are going to be times on this island where the to be times on this island where the to be times on this island where the Americans can hear and know that the Americans can hear and know that the Americans can hear and know that the Japanese are under them you know in the

Japanese are under them you know in the Japanese are under them you know in the ground and they just can't even get to ground and they just can't even get to ground and they just can't even get to them them them in his book Eagle against the sun Ronald in his book Eagle against the sun Ronald in his book Eagle against the sun Ronald H Spectre has a good sort of overview of H Spectre has a good sort of overview of H Spectre has a good sort of overview of the start of this thing and he writes the start of this thing and he writes the start of this thing and he writes quote by the way the island like two quote by the way the island like two quote by the way the island like two miles wide I think it's six square miles miles wide I think it's six square miles miles wide I think it's six square miles overall overall overall tiny quote the Americans had little tiny quote the Americans had little tiny quote the Americans had little information about the terrain on pelo information about the terrain on pelo information about the terrain on pelo except some inadequate aerial photos as except some inadequate aerial photos as except some inadequate aerial photos as a result they failed to recognize its a result they failed to recognize its a result they failed to recognize its potential for defense the northern potential for defense the northern potential for defense the northern peninsula of the small island was a peninsula of the small island was a peninsula of the small island was a series of jagged Cor ridg lines series of jagged Cor ridg lines series of jagged Cor ridg lines honeycombed with natural caves which the honeycombed with natural caves which the honeycombed with natural caves which the Japanese had improved into almost Japanese had improved into almost Japanese had improved into almost impregnable fortresses blast walls of impregnable fortresses blast walls of impregnable fortresses blast walls of reinforced concrete or oil drums filled reinforced concrete or oil drums filled reinforced concrete or oil drums filled with coral protected the entrances to with coral protected the entrances to with coral protected the entrances to the caves which often faced each other the caves which often faced each other the caves which often faced each other from the sheer walls of twisting gorges from the sheer walls of twisting gorges from the sheer walls of twisting gorges and were thus mutually supporting in the and were thus mutually supporting in the and were thus mutually supporting in the larger cave fortresses he writes the larger cave fortresses he writes the larger cave fortresses he writes the Japanese had installed electric Lighting Japanese had installed electric Lighting Japanese had installed electric Lighting ventilating systems stairs telephones ventilating systems stairs telephones ventilating systems stairs telephones and radio communications one large cave and radio communications one large cave and radio communications one large cave was discovered now he's quoting somebody was discovered now he's quoting somebody was discovered now he's quoting somebody quote to have nine staggered levels and quote to have nine staggered levels and quote to have nine staggered levels and so many entrances that it was all but so many entrances that it was all but so many entrances that it was all but impossible to count them end impossible to count them end impossible to count them end quote the Marines are going to land and quote the Marines are going to land and quote the Marines are going to land and assault right into the teeth of defenses assault right into the teeth of defenses assault right into the teeth of defenses that remind me of the kind of defenses that remind me of the kind of defenses that remind me of the kind of defenses that the British and the French soldiers that the British and the French soldiers that the British and the French soldiers sometimes had to assault headon on the

sometimes had to assault headon on the sometimes had to assault headon on the Western Front in the first World War you Western Front in the first World War you Western Front in the first World War you know prepared German trenches that had know prepared German trenches that had know prepared German trenches that had had the guns sighted and Crossfire set had the guns sighted and Crossfire set had the guns sighted and Crossfire set up and and uh barred wire put up I mean up and and uh barred wire put up I mean up and and uh barred wire put up I mean this is it's not the sort of fight you this is it's not the sort of fight you this is it's not the sort of fight you want Marines in necessarily because want Marines in necessarily because want Marines in necessarily because they're fast moving lightly uh uh armed they're fast moving lightly uh uh armed they're fast moving lightly uh uh armed and equipped people designed to you know and equipped people designed to you know and equipped people designed to you know get in quickly bypass strong points this get in quickly bypass strong points this get in quickly bypass strong points this is going to throw them though right into is going to throw them though right into is going to throw them though right into the teeth of all this this is where some the teeth of all this this is where some the teeth of all this this is where some of the criticism by the way of pelo of the criticism by the way of pelo of the criticism by the way of pelo comes in uh and this is where the war comes in uh and this is where the war comes in uh and this is where the war Memoirs take over there are some Memoirs take over there are some Memoirs take over there are some fantastic accounts of pelo the best of fantastic accounts of pelo the best of fantastic accounts of pelo the best of course is one of the best war Memoirs of course is one of the best war Memoirs of course is one of the best war Memoirs of all all all time it's uh called with the old breed time it's uh called with the old breed time it's uh called with the old breed at pelo in okanawa by EB Sledge Eugene at pelo in okanawa by EB Sledge Eugene at pelo in okanawa by EB Sledge Eugene Sledge they've made movies from sledge's Sledge they've made movies from sledge's Sledge they've made movies from sledge's writing now but it was never intended writing now but it was never intended writing now but it was never intended for this this was therapeutic for this for this this was therapeutic for this for this this was therapeutic for this Marine wrote it for himself from notes Marine wrote it for himself from notes Marine wrote it for himself from notes he took during the fighting for his he took during the fighting for his he took during the fighting for his family he's one of the most attractive family he's one of the most attractive family he's one of the most attractive maybe that's a better way to put it sort maybe that's a better way to put it sort maybe that's a better way to put it sort of individuals you will ever meet uh of individuals you will ever meet uh of individuals you will ever meet uh he's dead now but I mean became a he's dead now but I mean became a he's dead now but I mean became a biology Professor after the war biology Professor after the war biology Professor after the war softspoken southern guy you can't in softspoken southern guy you can't in softspoken southern guy you can't in your mind's eye picture the old man your mind's eye picture the old man your mind's eye picture the old man Eugene Sledge doing the things the young Eugene Sledge doing the things the young Eugene Sledge doing the things the young man the young Marine Eugene Sledge had man the young Marine Eugene Sledge had man the young Marine Eugene Sledge had to do and live through but that's part to do and live through but that's part to do and live through but that's part of what his more war Memoir is all about of what his more war Memoir is all about of what his more war Memoir is all about that all these people were like him and that all these people were like him and that all these people were like him and that the the the war made them do and that the the the war made them do and that the the the war made them do and live through the most outrageously

live through the most outrageously live through the most outrageously extreme extreme extreme things Sledge talks about the hitting things Sledge talks about the hitting things Sledge talks about the hitting the beach moment which he says is like the beach moment which he says is like the beach moment which he says is like cinematic says you know the the Amtrak cinematic says you know the the Amtrak cinematic says you know the the Amtrak is moving from the ships toward the is moving from the ships toward the is moving from the ships toward the shore and one of the other soldiers shore and one of the other soldiers shore and one of the other soldiers pulls out some whiskey and says well pulls out some whiskey and says well pulls out some whiskey and says well this is it boys and then Sledge says this is it boys and then Sledge says this is it boys and then Sledge says just like in the just like in the just like in the movies but once they hit the beach it's movies but once they hit the beach it's movies but once they hit the beach it's not like the not like the not like the movies at all Sledge writes movies at all Sledge writes movies at all Sledge writes quote shells crashed all around quote shells crashed all around quote shells crashed all around fragments tore and worred slapping on fragments tore and worred slapping on fragments tore and worred slapping on the sand and splashing into the water a the sand and splashing into the water a the sand and splashing into the water a few yards behind us the Japanese were few yards behind us the Japanese were few yards behind us the Japanese were recovering from the shock of our recovering from the shock of our recovering from the shock of our pre-landing bombardment their Machine pre-landing bombardment their Machine pre-landing bombardment their Machine Gun and Rifle fire got thicker snapping Gun and Rifle fire got thicker snapping Gun and Rifle fire got thicker snapping viciously overhead in increasing volume viciously overhead in increasing volume viciously overhead in increasing volume our Amtrak the amphibious vehicle spun our Amtrak the amphibious vehicle spun our Amtrak the amphibious vehicle spun around and headed back out as I reached around and headed back out as I reached around and headed back out as I reached the end of the beach and flattened on the end of the beach and flattened on the end of the beach and flattened on the deck the world was a nightmare of the deck the world was a nightmare of the deck the world was a nightmare of flashes violent explosions and snapping flashes violent explosions and snapping flashes violent explosions and snapping bullets most of what I saw blurred my bullets most of what I saw blurred my bullets most of what I saw blurred my mind was benumbed by the shock of it I mind was benumbed by the shock of it I mind was benumbed by the shock of it I glanced back across the beach and saw a glanced back across the beach and saw a glanced back across the beach and saw a duck a rubber tired amphibious truck duck a rubber tired amphibious truck duck a rubber tired amphibious truck that's what they were called roll up on that's what they were called roll up on that's what they were called roll up on the sand at a point near where we had the sand at a point near where we had the sand at a point near where we had just landed the instant the duck stopped just landed the instant the duck stopped just landed the instant the duck stopped it was engulfed in a thick dirty black it was engulfed in a thick dirty black it was engulfed in a thick dirty black smoke as a shell scored a direct hit on smoke as a shell scored a direct hit on smoke as a shell scored a direct hit on it bits of debris flew into the air I it bits of debris flew into the air I it bits of debris flew into the air I watched with that odd detached watched with that odd detached watched with that odd detached fascination peculiar to men under Fire

fascination peculiar to men under Fire fascination peculiar to men under Fire as a flat metal panel about 2 feet as a flat metal panel about 2 feet as a flat metal panel about 2 feet square spun High into the air and then square spun High into the air and then square spun High into the air and then splashed into shallow water like a big splashed into shallow water like a big splashed into shallow water like a big pancake I didn't see any men get out of pancake I didn't see any men get out of pancake I didn't see any men get out of the duck he continues up and down the the duck he continues up and down the the duck he continues up and down the beach and out on the reef a number of Am beach and out on the reef a number of Am beach and out on the reef a number of Am TRS and Ducks were burning Japanese TRS and Ducks were burning Japanese TRS and Ducks were burning Japanese machine gun bursts made long splashes on machine gun bursts made long splashes on machine gun bursts made long splashes on the water as though flying it with some the water as though flying it with some the water as though flying it with some giant whip the geysers belched up giant whip the geysers belched up giant whip the geysers belched up relentlessly where the mortar and relentlessly where the mortar and relentlessly where the mortar and artillery shells hit I caught a fleeting artillery shells hit I caught a fleeting artillery shells hit I caught a fleeting glimpse of a group of Marines leaving a glimpse of a group of Marines leaving a glimpse of a group of Marines leaving a smoking amtr on the reef some fell as smoking amtr on the reef some fell as smoking amtr on the reef some fell as bullets and fragments splashed among bullets and fragments splashed among bullets and fragments splashed among them their buddies tried to help them as them their buddies tried to help them as them their buddies tried to help them as they struggled in kneed deep water I they struggled in kneed deep water I they struggled in kneed deep water I shuddered and choked a wild desperate shuddered and choked a wild desperate shuddered and choked a wild desperate feeling of anger frustration and pity feeling of anger frustration and pity feeling of anger frustration and pity gripped me it was an emotion that always gripped me it was an emotion that always gripped me it was an emotion that always would torture my mind when I saw men would torture my mind when I saw men would torture my mind when I saw men trapped and was unable to do anything trapped and was unable to do anything trapped and was unable to do anything but watch as they were hit my own plight but watch as they were hit my own plight but watch as they were hit my own plight forgotten momentarily I felt thickened forgotten momentarily I felt thickened forgotten momentarily I felt thickened to the depths of my soul I asked God why to the depths of my soul I asked God why to the depths of my soul I asked God why why why I turned my face away and wished why why I turned my face away and wished why why I turned my face away and wished that I were imagining it all I had that I were imagining it all I had that I were imagining it all I had tasted the bitterest essence of war the tasted the bitterest essence of war the tasted the bitterest essence of war the sight of helpless comrades being sight of helpless comrades being sight of helpless comrades being slaughtered and it filled me with slaughtered and it filled me with slaughtered and it filled me with disgusted end disgusted end disgusted end quote in Matthew a Roselle's book The quote in Matthew a Roselle's book The quote in Matthew a Roselle's book The Things our fathers saw where he Things our fathers saw where he Things our fathers saw where he interviews veterans throughout the book interviews veterans throughout the book interviews veterans throughout the book he interviews uh pelalu veterans he interviews uh pelalu veterans he interviews uh pelalu veterans including a 19-year-old Marine Dan including a 19-year-old Marine Dan including a 19-year-old Marine Dan Lawler who was also in the wave that Lawler who was also in the wave that Lawler who was also in the wave that attacked Pelon says this quote we hit

attacked Pelon says this quote we hit attacked Pelon says this quote we hit the island which was only 4 miles long the island which was only 4 miles long the island which was only 4 miles long by 2 mies wide I was in the first by 2 mies wide I was in the first by 2 mies wide I was in the first assault wave it was hell and everyone assault wave it was hell and everyone assault wave it was hell and everyone was scared it was an awful feeling as we was scared it was an awful feeling as we was scared it was an awful feeling as we disembarked I looked up and down the disembarked I looked up and down the disembarked I looked up and down the beaches and all you could hear was beaches and all you could hear was beaches and all you could hear was screaming and men were falling and dying screaming and men were falling and dying screaming and men were falling and dying there was artillery mortar and machine there was artillery mortar and machine there was artillery mortar and machine gun fire constantly we fought all day gun fire constantly we fought all day gun fire constantly we fought all day and by evening we reached the air strip and by evening we reached the air strip and by evening we reached the air strip about a half mile from the Beach we set about a half mile from the Beach we set about a half mile from the Beach we set up for the night along the sides of the up for the night along the sides of the up for the night along the sides of the airst strip the temperature was from airst strip the temperature was from airst strip the temperature was from 102° at night to 120° in the daytime we 102° at night to 120° in the daytime we 102° at night to 120° in the daytime we went in with two canteens of water went in with two canteens of water went in with two canteens of water that's a gallon of water this island was that's a gallon of water this island was that's a gallon of water this island was 2 de off the equator by noon time we 2 de off the equator by noon time we 2 de off the equator by noon time we were out of water end were out of water end were out of water end quote Roselle also quotes another Marine quote Roselle also quotes another Marine quote Roselle also quotes another Marine from that day named John Murray who says from that day named John Murray who says from that day named John Murray who says that the first thing he saw after he that the first thing he saw after he that the first thing he saw after he landed Ed was a Japanese machine gunner landed Ed was a Japanese machine gunner landed Ed was a Japanese machine gunner chained to his machine gun and he says chained to his machine gun and he says chained to his machine gun and he says they were not going to give they were not going to give they were not going to give up in the last segment we had quoted a up in the last segment we had quoted a up in the last segment we had quoted a line from Paul fussell's wonderful book line from Paul fussell's wonderful book line from Paul fussell's wonderful book on War called wartime and he had a whole on War called wartime and he had a whole on War called wartime and he had a whole chapter called the real war will never chapter called the real war will never chapter called the real war will never get into the books uh and it was based get into the books uh and it was based get into the books uh and it was based on on a saying that soldiers had and the on on a saying that soldiers had and the on on a saying that soldiers had and the problem with the real war getting into problem with the real war getting into problem with the real war getting into the books is that no country likes to the books is that no country likes to the books is that no country likes to show their own soldiers getting chewed show their own soldiers getting chewed show their own soldiers getting chewed up I have a book called life goes to war

up I have a book called life goes to war up I have a book called life goes to war in the second world Awards this book of in the second world Awards this book of in the second world Awards this book of all the Life magazine photos and you'll all the Life magazine photos and you'll all the Life magazine photos and you'll occasionally see dead Americans you know occasionally see dead Americans you know occasionally see dead Americans you know Tastefully shown uh but they have no Tastefully shown uh but they have no Tastefully shown uh but they have no problem showing thousands and thousands problem showing thousands and thousands problem showing thousands and thousands of dead Japanese after a bonsai attack of dead Japanese after a bonsai attack of dead Japanese after a bonsai attack but what hit me as a child you know who but what hit me as a child you know who but what hit me as a child you know who was interested in war was the first real was interested in war was the first real was interested in war was the first real stuff that I ran into that didn't stuff that I ran into that didn't stuff that I ran into that didn't sanitize it from the American side right sanitize it from the American side right sanitize it from the American side right you go around playing in your army you go around playing in your army you go around playing in your army helmet your army clothes and uh and it helmet your army clothes and uh and it helmet your army clothes and uh and it looks all glorious and then you run into looks all glorious and then you run into looks all glorious and then you run into some of the artwork of a guy like uh some of the artwork of a guy like uh some of the artwork of a guy like uh life magazines Tom Lee Lee's a famous life magazines Tom Lee Lee's a famous life magazines Tom Lee Lee's a famous artist and he was in the second wave at artist and he was in the second wave at artist and he was in the second wave at pelo so he landed about an hour after pelo so he landed about an hour after pelo so he landed about an hour after the first wave and Lee had had up until the first wave and Lee had had up until the first wave and Lee had had up until this time been doing the same sort of this time been doing the same sort of this time been doing the same sort of artwork that we could call today sort of artwork that we could call today sort of artwork that we could call today sort of propaganda artwork but pelo changed him propaganda artwork but pelo changed him propaganda artwork but pelo changed him I have an account from I have an account from I have an account from um author James Jones who was in the um author James Jones who was in the um author James Jones who was in the Pacific War and he's talking about these Pacific War and he's talking about these Pacific War and he's talking about these artists and he says uh this about Tom artists and he says uh this about Tom artists and he says uh this about Tom Lee Lee Lee quote Lee was one of the artists put quote Lee was one of the artists put quote Lee was one of the artists put into the field by Life Magazine after into the field by Life Magazine after into the field by Life Magazine after their takeover of the defunct Army their takeover of the defunct Army their takeover of the defunct Army program various of his Works appeared in program various of his Works appeared in program various of his Works appeared in the magazine and up until the time he the magazine and up until the time he the magazine and up until the time he went into pelo most of them could be went into pelo most of them could be went into pelo most of them could be pretty well classified as excellently pretty well classified as excellently pretty well classified as excellently done but high-grade propaganda there was done but high-grade propaganda there was done but high-grade propaganda there was very little American blood very little very little American blood very little very little American blood very little tension very little horror mostly it was tension very little horror mostly it was tension very little horror mostly it was what could be called the Bravo America

what could be called the Bravo America what could be called the Bravo America and this is your boy type of War art his and this is your boy type of War art his and this is your boy type of War art his almost photographic style easily lent almost photographic style easily lent almost photographic style easily lent itself to that type of work as did the itself to that type of work as did the itself to that type of work as did the styles of Rockwell and others but styles of Rockwell and others but styles of Rockwell and others but something apparently happened to Lee something apparently happened to Lee something apparently happened to Lee after going into pelo Jones writes the after going into pelo Jones writes the after going into pelo Jones writes the pictures painted out of his pelalu pictures painted out of his pelalu pictures painted out of his pelalu experience show a new approach there is experience show a new approach there is experience show a new approach there is the tension of Terror in the bodies here the tension of Terror in the bodies here the tension of Terror in the bodies here and the distorted facial expressions of and the distorted facial expressions of and the distorted facial expressions of the men under Fire show it too if his the men under Fire show it too if his the men under Fire show it too if his propagandistic style has not changed his propagandistic style has not changed his propagandistic style has not changed his subject matter certainly has end subject matter certainly has end subject matter certainly has end quote I ran into this as a kid seeing uh quote I ran into this as a kid seeing uh quote I ran into this as a kid seeing uh a couple of Lee's most famous pieces of a couple of Lee's most famous pieces of a couple of Lee's most famous pieces of work one was called uh the 2,000 yard work one was called uh the 2,000 yard work one was called uh the 2,000 yard stair where Lee had done a piece of art stair where Lee had done a piece of art stair where Lee had done a piece of art showing what soldiers look like after showing what soldiers look like after showing what soldiers look like after combat for long time today we would combat for long time today we would combat for long time today we would recognize it as as what's sometimes recognize it as as what's sometimes recognize it as as what's sometimes called combat called combat called combat Neurosis Tom Lee wrote about the Neurosis Tom Lee wrote about the Neurosis Tom Lee wrote about the painting that he did of the Marine with painting that he did of the Marine with painting that he did of the Marine with the so-called 2,000 yard stare and said the so-called 2,000 yard stare and said the so-called 2,000 yard stare and said quote he meaning the Marine left the quote he meaning the Marine left the quote he meaning the Marine left the states 31 months ago he was wounded in states 31 months ago he was wounded in states 31 months ago he was wounded in his first campaign he has had tropical his first campaign he has had tropical his first campaign he has had tropical diseases he half sleeps at night and diseases he half sleeps at night and diseases he half sleeps at night and gouges Japs out of holes all day 2third gouges Japs out of holes all day 2third gouges Japs out of holes all day 2third of his company has been killed or of his company has been killed or of his company has been killed or wounded did he will return to attack wounded did he will return to attack wounded did he will return to attack this morning how much can a human being this morning how much can a human being this morning how much can a human being endure end endure end endure end quote Lee also is the one who painted a

quote Lee also is the one who painted a quote Lee also is the one who painted a a a painting called the price this was a a a painting called the price this was a a a painting called the price this was a very controversial piece when it was very controversial piece when it was very controversial piece when it was published by Life Magazine uh ianw tol published by Life Magazine uh ianw tol published by Life Magazine uh ianw tol says uh people complained and canceled says uh people complained and canceled says uh people complained and canceled their subscriptions because it showed a their subscriptions because it showed a their subscriptions because it showed a marine suffering what a marine really marine suffering what a marine really marine suffering what a marine really suffered and Lee was accused of suffered and Lee was accused of suffered and Lee was accused of embellishing and and overd dramatizing embellishing and and overd dramatizing embellishing and and overd dramatizing something which if you think about it something which if you think about it something which if you think about it sounds silly he's overd dramatizing war sounds silly he's overd dramatizing war sounds silly he's overd dramatizing war and Lee fought back saying every single and Lee fought back saying every single and Lee fought back saying every single painting he did showed what he really painting he did showed what he really painting he did showed what he really saw and um the painting the price I'm saw and um the painting the price I'm saw and um the painting the price I'm not the only guy by the way I was doing not the only guy by the way I was doing not the only guy by the way I was doing research on this and found that other research on this and found that other research on this and found that other people were similarly affected if you're people were similarly affected if you're people were similarly affected if you're not used to seeing your own side uh as not used to seeing your own side uh as not used to seeing your own side uh as War victims when an artist paints it and War victims when an artist paints it and War victims when an artist paints it and and this showed a photo almost photo and this showed a photo almost photo and this showed a photo almost photo realistic quality of a marine who had realistic quality of a marine who had realistic quality of a marine who had been hit by mortar fire on the beach at been hit by mortar fire on the beach at been hit by mortar fire on the beach at pelo as Tom Lee watched and his arm is pelo as Tom Lee watched and his arm is pelo as Tom Lee watched and his arm is destroyed and half his face is gone and destroyed and half his face is gone and destroyed and half his face is gone and Lee described it this way he said quote Lee described it this way he said quote Lee described it this way he said quote I fell flat on my face just as I heard I fell flat on my face just as I heard I fell flat on my face just as I heard the whoosh of a mortar that I knew was the whoosh of a mortar that I knew was the whoosh of a mortar that I knew was too close a red flash stabbed at my too close a red flash stabbed at my too close a red flash stabbed at my eyeballs about 15 yards away on the eyeballs about 15 yards away on the eyeballs about 15 yards away on the upper edge of the beach it smashed down upper edge of the beach it smashed down upper edge of the beach it smashed down four men from our boat one figure seemed four men from our boat one figure seemed four men from our boat one figure seemed to fly to pieces with with terrible to fly to pieces with with terrible to fly to pieces with with terrible Clarity I saw the head and one leg sail Clarity I saw the head and one leg sail Clarity I saw the head and one leg sail into the air I got up ran a few steps into the air I got up ran a few steps into the air I got up ran a few steps and fell into a small hole as another and fell into a small hole as another and fell into a small hole as another mortar burst through dirt on me lying

mortar burst through dirt on me lying mortar burst through dirt on me lying there in Terror looking longingly up the there in Terror looking longingly up the there in Terror looking longingly up the slope for better cover I saw a wounded slope for better cover I saw a wounded slope for better cover I saw a wounded man near me staggering in the direction man near me staggering in the direction man near me staggering in the direction of the lvts The Landing Vehicles his of the lvts The Landing Vehicles his of the lvts The Landing Vehicles his face was half bloody pulp and the face was half bloody pulp and the face was half bloody pulp and the mangled shreds of what was left of an mangled shreds of what was left of an mangled shreds of what was left of an arm hung down like a stick as he bent arm hung down like a stick as he bent arm hung down like a stick as he bent over in his stomach Ling shock crazy over in his stomach Ling shock crazy over in his stomach Ling shock crazy walk the half of his face that was still walk the half of his face that was still walk the half of his face that was still human had the most terrifying look of human had the most terrifying look of human had the most terrifying look of abject patience I've ever seen he fell abject patience I've ever seen he fell abject patience I've ever seen he fell behind me in a red puddle on the white behind me in a red puddle on the white behind me in a red puddle on the white sand end sand end sand end quote but to me this isn't gratuitous to quote but to me this isn't gratuitous to quote but to me this isn't gratuitous to say these things this is what makes what say these things this is what makes what say these things this is what makes what these marines did and yes let's be fair these marines did and yes let's be fair these marines did and yes let's be fair what the Japanese resisting them also what the Japanese resisting them also what the Japanese resisting them also did what it did what it did what it is if you have some easy run and nobody is if you have some easy run and nobody is if you have some easy run and nobody gets hurt well it's a different style of gets hurt well it's a different style of gets hurt well it's a different style of of thing isn't it the reason pelo of thing isn't it the reason pelo of thing isn't it the reason pelo elicits the kind of admiration and elicits the kind of admiration and elicits the kind of admiration and horror that it does is because that's horror that it does is because that's horror that it does is because that's not what not what not what happens these men have to see things happens these men have to see things happens these men have to see things like this or experience it and then keep like this or experience it and then keep like this or experience it and then keep going and as I said I'm not a glory uh going and as I said I'm not a glory uh going and as I said I'm not a glory uh person I don't think shooting and person I don't think shooting and person I don't think shooting and killing other people's glorious but killing other people's glorious but killing other people's glorious but there is something heroic about about there is something heroic about about there is something heroic about about being able to keep going when assaulted being able to keep going when assaulted being able to keep going when assaulted by these sorts of sights sounds and um by these sorts of sights sounds and um by these sorts of sights sounds and um and and possible damage to

and and possible damage to and and possible damage to yourself and I break by the way the yourself and I break by the way the yourself and I break by the way the heroism down to two separate categories heroism down to two separate categories heroism down to two separate categories the heroism while these soldiers and the heroism while these soldiers and the heroism while these soldiers and Marines and yes Japanese soldiers too Marines and yes Japanese soldiers too Marines and yes Japanese soldiers too while they're actually fighting and while they're actually fighting and while they're actually fighting and dying in combat and then the different dying in combat and then the different dying in combat and then the different kind of heroism that comes com with kind of heroism that comes com with kind of heroism that comes com with trying to reestablish some sort of a trying to reestablish some sort of a trying to reestablish some sort of a normal life when you go home and have to normal life when you go home and have to normal life when you go home and have to live with all of this stuff in your live with all of this stuff in your live with all of this stuff in your memory banks for maybe memory banks for maybe memory banks for maybe decades as I believe I mentioned earlier decades as I believe I mentioned earlier decades as I believe I mentioned earlier I used to talk to um American veterans I used to talk to um American veterans I used to talk to um American veterans of the second world war and specifically of the second world war and specifically of the second world war and specifically the ones that were the most difficult the ones that were the most difficult the ones that were the most difficult nuts to crack were those from the nuts to crack were those from the nuts to crack were those from the Pacific and um a bunch of them wouldn't Pacific and um a bunch of them wouldn't Pacific and um a bunch of them wouldn't talk at all the ones who I was told had talk at all the ones who I was told had talk at all the ones who I was told had seen the most seen the most seen the most combat but look at what they're trying combat but look at what they're trying combat but look at what they're trying to Grapple with and how could they ever to Grapple with and how could they ever to Grapple with and how could they ever explain it to you the the things in explain it to you the the things in explain it to you the the things in sledge's book there were there are three sledge's book there were there are three sledge's book there were there are three or four things that when you read them or four things that when you read them or four things that when you read them you go okay this is something that's you go okay this is something that's you go okay this is something that's going to stay with you the rest of your going to stay with you the rest of your going to stay with you the rest of your life I mean all of it will be but there life I mean all of it will be but there life I mean all of it will be but there are certain things where you just go are certain things where you just go are certain things where you just go holy cow and sledge had said once that holy cow and sledge had said once that holy cow and sledge had said once that if you were a hundred yards behind the if you were a hundred yards behind the if you were a hundred yards behind the front line you didn't understand it you front line you didn't understand it you front line you didn't understand it you know you could be a rear support person know you could be a rear support person know you could be a rear support person and still being great danger in the and still being great danger in the and still being great danger in the second world war but it's different and second world war but it's different and second world war but it's different and we said this in the last segment the we said this in the last segment the we said this in the last segment the last part of the show I'm sure where last part of the show I'm sure where last part of the show I'm sure where it's different when you're in the meat it's different when you're in the meat it's different when you're in the meat grinder and you absolutely every single grinder and you absolutely every single grinder and you absolutely every single day are going from one position to day are going from one position to day are going from one position to another position to another position another position to another position another position to another position rooting out and killing the people in rooting out and killing the people in rooting out and killing the people in each of these each of these each of these positions Sledge says the worst

positions Sledge says the worst positions Sledge says the worst experience he ever had in the Second experience he ever had in the Second experience he ever had in the Second World War uh was on pelo trying to cross World War uh was on pelo trying to cross World War uh was on pelo trying to cross an open Airfield which a lot of the an open Airfield which a lot of the an open Airfield which a lot of the soldiers remembered under artillery and soldiers remembered under artillery and soldiers remembered under artillery and mortar fire and he said quote to be mortar fire and he said quote to be mortar fire and he said quote to be shelled by massed artillery and mortars shelled by massed artillery and mortars shelled by massed artillery and mortars is absolutely terrifying but to be is absolutely terrifying but to be is absolutely terrifying but to be shelled in the open is Terror compounded shelled in the open is Terror compounded shelled in the open is Terror compounded beyond the belief of anyone who hasn't beyond the belief of anyone who hasn't beyond the belief of anyone who hasn't experienced it the attack across pelo experienced it the attack across pelo experienced it the attack across pelo Airfield was the worst combat experience Airfield was the worst combat experience Airfield was the worst combat experience I had during the entire War it surpassed I had during the entire War it surpassed I had during the entire War it surpassed by the intensity of the blast and shock by the intensity of the blast and shock by the intensity of the blast and shock of the bursting shells all the of the bursting shells all the of the bursting shells all the subsequent horrifying ordeals on pelalu subsequent horrifying ordeals on pelalu subsequent horrifying ordeals on pelalu and okanawa end quote that sort of and okanawa end quote that sort of and okanawa end quote that sort of mirror is what Ernst Jer in his fabulous mirror is what Ernst Jer in his fabulous mirror is what Ernst Jer in his fabulous book on the first world war the storm of book on the first world war the storm of book on the first world war the storm of Steel had said about artillery he said Steel had said about artillery he said Steel had said about artillery he said that being under artillery attack was that being under artillery attack was that being under artillery attack was like being tied to a stake and having like being tied to a stake and having like being tied to a stake and having somebody swinging at your head with a somebody swinging at your head with a somebody swinging at your head with a sledgehammer over and over again and sledgehammer over and over again and sledgehammer over and over again and just missing by a little but you were just missing by a little but you were just missing by a little but you were sure that the next shot of the sure that the next shot of the sure that the next shot of the sledgehammer was going to get sledgehammer was going to get sledgehammer was going to get you surviving that artillery barrage you surviving that artillery barrage you surviving that artillery barrage while you run and try to avoid getting while you run and try to avoid getting while you run and try to avoid getting hit is the sort of thing that will give hit is the sort of thing that will give hit is the sort of thing that will give you nightmares the rest of your life but you nightmares the rest of your life but you nightmares the rest of your life but he he has two other incidents in the he he has two other incidents in the he he has two other incidents in the book uh that fall in my mind under the book uh that fall in my mind under the book uh that fall in my mind under the category of um this is not what you're category of um this is not what you're category of um this is not what you're ready for when you go to war or you're ready for when you go to war or you're ready for when you go to war or you're ready to to take on the enemy and deal ready to to take on the enemy and deal ready to to take on the enemy and deal with uh you know shooting at somebody or with uh you know shooting at somebody or with uh you know shooting at somebody or or being shot at but but he talks about or being shot at but but he talks about or being shot at but but he talks about for example one incident where they're for example one incident where they're for example one incident where they're all on patrol at night in on pelo and all on patrol at night in on pelo and all on patrol at night in on pelo and it's dark and they're trying to maintain

it's dark and they're trying to maintain it's dark and they're trying to maintain quiet and secrecy and then one of their quiet and secrecy and then one of their quiet and secrecy and then one of their guys cracks up and starts raving and guys cracks up and starts raving and guys cracks up and starts raving and screaming and threatening the whole unit screaming and threatening the whole unit screaming and threatening the whole unit and they don't know what to do they're and they don't know what to do they're and they don't know what to do they're panicking what do we do with this guy panicking what do we do with this guy panicking what do we do with this guy he's our friend he's our buddy so first he's our friend he's our buddy so first he's our friend he's our buddy so first they try to give him morphine then they they try to give him morphine then they they try to give him morphine then they try to knock him out with a punch to the try to knock him out with a punch to the try to knock him out with a punch to the jaw then more morphine and nothing is jaw then more morphine and nothing is jaw then more morphine and nothing is working and eventually one of the working and eventually one of the working and eventually one of the officers or the sergeant says use an officers or the sergeant says use an officers or the sergeant says use an entrenching tool knock him out and they entrenching tool knock him out and they entrenching tool knock him out and they hit him in the head with basically a hit him in the head with basically a hit him in the head with basically a shovel and instead of injuring him he shovel and instead of injuring him he shovel and instead of injuring him he dies and the person who hit him in the dies and the person who hit him in the dies and the person who hit him in the head with the shovel has to live with head with the shovel has to live with head with the shovel has to live with that the rest of his life you know it's that the rest of his life you know it's that the rest of his life you know it's one thing to say I killed the enemy and one thing to say I killed the enemy and one thing to say I killed the enemy and they were a bunch of fanatical robots they were a bunch of fanatical robots they were a bunch of fanatical robots and and they did Terrible Things to our and and they did Terrible Things to our and and they did Terrible Things to our troops so I don't feel bad about it it's troops so I don't feel bad about it it's troops so I don't feel bad about it it's another thing to hit your own guy in the another thing to hit your own guy in the another thing to hit your own guy in the head with an entrenching tool and kill head with an entrenching tool and kill head with an entrenching tool and kill him Sledge tells a worse story than that him Sledge tells a worse story than that him Sledge tells a worse story than that later on when he's talking about later on when he's talking about later on when he's talking about um and this is like horror movie stuff um and this is like horror movie stuff um and this is like horror movie stuff like Freddy Krueger jump scare horror like Freddy Krueger jump scare horror like Freddy Krueger jump scare horror stuff but the Japanese at night with stuff but the Japanese at night with stuff but the Japanese at night with their infiltration tactics drove the their infiltration tactics drove the their infiltration tactics drove the Americans crazy and over and over you Americans crazy and over and over you Americans crazy and over and over you read veterans saying I hated the night read veterans saying I hated the night read veterans saying I hated the night they would be in Twan fox holes so one they would be in Twan fox holes so one they would be in Twan fox holes so one person could sleep while the other person could sleep while the other person could sleep while the other person watched and stayed on guard but person watched and stayed on guard but person watched and stayed on guard but the problem is is at night you thought the problem is is at night you thought the problem is is at night you thought you every single sound was the Japanese you every single sound was the Japanese you every single sound was the Japanese and they'd come close to the foxholes and they'd come close to the foxholes and they'd come close to the foxholes and scream things at you to keep you on and scream things at you to keep you on and scream things at you to keep you on edge but sometimes they do more than edge but sometimes they do more than edge but sometimes they do more than scream they grab a a couple of edged scream they grab a a couple of edged scream they grab a a couple of edged weapons and jump into some of these fox weapons and jump into some of these fox weapons and jump into some of these fox holes and not only did the people in the holes and not only did the people in the holes and not only did the people in the fox holes who all of a sudden had fox holes who all of a sudden had fox holes who all of a sudden had Japanese in their fox holes with them Japanese in their fox holes with them Japanese in their fox holes with them have to deal with them but so did every have to deal with them but so did every have to deal with them but so did every American around that Foxhole who could American around that Foxhole who could American around that Foxhole who could hear what was

hear what was hear what was happening I read this over and over happening I read this over and over happening I read this over and over again with uh different Marines in again with uh different Marines in again with uh different Marines in different books talking about the sounds different books talking about the sounds different books talking about the sounds I mean what does it sound like when one I mean what does it sound like when one I mean what does it sound like when one guy is gouging out another guy's eyes guy is gouging out another guy's eyes guy is gouging out another guy's eyes and kills him by doing that I mean and kills him by doing that I mean and kills him by doing that I mean Sledge says quote with the wild yell the Sledge says quote with the wild yell the Sledge says quote with the wild yell the Japanese jumped into the hole with the Japanese jumped into the hole with the Japanese jumped into the hole with the two marines a frantic desperate two marines a frantic desperate two marines a frantic desperate hand-to-hand struggle ensued accompanied hand-to-hand struggle ensued accompanied hand-to-hand struggle ensued accompanied by the most gruesome combination of by the most gruesome combination of by the most gruesome combination of curses wild babbling animalistic curses wild babbling animalistic curses wild babbling animalistic guttural noises and grunts sounds of men guttural noises and grunts sounds of men guttural noises and grunts sounds of men hitting each other and thrashing around hitting each other and thrashing around hitting each other and thrashing around came from the came from the came from the Foxhole end quote okay again though Foxhole end quote okay again though Foxhole end quote okay again though that's combat right you're going to wake that's combat right you're going to wake that's combat right you're going to wake up with some Nightmares From that but up with some Nightmares From that but up with some Nightmares From that but it's what happens next that gives a it's what happens next that gives a it's what happens next that gives a different sort of vibe to the whole different sort of vibe to the whole different sort of vibe to the whole thing when Sledge says a man jump out of thing when Sledge says a man jump out of thing when Sledge says a man jump out of the Foxhole and starts running in the the Foxhole and starts running in the the Foxhole and starts running in the dark toward the other Marine fox holes dark toward the other Marine fox holes dark toward the other Marine fox holes so a Marine stands up uses his gun like so a Marine stands up uses his gun like so a Marine stands up uses his gun like a club and smacks the figure in the head a club and smacks the figure in the head a club and smacks the figure in the head knocking him down that figure stays knocking him down that figure stays knocking him down that figure stays around in the dark groaning and around in the dark groaning and around in the dark groaning and thrashing around until another Marine thrashing around until another Marine thrashing around until another Marine goes up and shoots him in the head and goes up and shoots him in the head and goes up and shoots him in the head and in the morning they find out that it in the morning they find out that it in the morning they find out that it wasn't a Japanese soldier that they shot wasn't a Japanese soldier that they shot wasn't a Japanese soldier that they shot in the head it was one of their in the head it was one of their in the head it was one of their own Sledge says quote a few hours later own Sledge says quote a few hours later own Sledge says quote a few hours later as objects around me became faintly as objects around me became faintly as objects around me became faintly visible with the dawn I noticed that the visible with the dawn I noticed that the visible with the dawn I noticed that the still form lying to my left didn't still form lying to my left didn't still form lying to my left didn't appear Japanese it was either an enemy appear Japanese it was either an enemy appear Japanese it was either an enemy and Marine dungarees or leggings or it and Marine dungarees or leggings or it and Marine dungarees or leggings or it was a marine I went over to find out was a marine I went over to find out was a marine I went over to find out which before I got to the prone body its

which before I got to the prone body its which before I got to the prone body its identity was obvious to me my God I said identity was obvious to me my God I said identity was obvious to me my God I said in horror several men looked at me and in horror several men looked at me and in horror several men looked at me and asked what was the matter it's Bill I asked what was the matter it's Bill I asked what was the matter it's Bill I said end said end said end quote he then is asked by the officer um quote he then is asked by the officer um quote he then is asked by the officer um you know who got him did he get killed you know who got him did he get killed you know who got him did he get killed by one of the Japs he said and by one of the Japs he said and by one of the Japs he said and sledgehammers which was sledge's sledgehammers which was sledge's sledgehammers which was sledge's nickname says quote I didn't answer just nickname says quote I didn't answer just nickname says quote I didn't answer just looked at him with a blank stare and looked at him with a blank stare and looked at him with a blank stare and felt sick I looked at the man who had felt sick I looked at the man who had felt sick I looked at the man who had crawled past me to check on the groaning crawled past me to check on the groaning crawled past me to check on the groaning man in the dark he had shot Bill through man in the dark he had shot Bill through man in the dark he had shot Bill through the temple mistakenly assuming him to be the temple mistakenly assuming him to be the temple mistakenly assuming him to be Japanese and then he says as the Japanese and then he says as the Japanese and then he says as the realization of his fatal mistake hit him realization of his fatal mistake hit him realization of his fatal mistake hit him the man's face turned Ashen his jaw the man's face turned Ashen his jaw the man's face turned Ashen his jaw trembled and he looked as though he were trembled and he looked as though he were trembled and he looked as though he were going to cry going to cry going to cry end end end quote this is something above and beyond quote this is something above and beyond quote this is something above and beyond what you expect when you go to kill the what you expect when you go to kill the what you expect when you go to kill the enemy and I understand so much better enemy and I understand so much better enemy and I understand so much better after reading sledge's book why it was after reading sledge's book why it was after reading sledge's book why it was so hard sometimes impossible to get so hard sometimes impossible to get so hard sometimes impossible to get these Pacific War veterans especially these Pacific War veterans especially these Pacific War veterans especially these marines to tell you much about these marines to tell you much about these marines to tell you much about their experience because how could you their experience because how could you their experience because how could you have understood what sort of context did have understood what sort of context did have understood what sort of context did you have to properly assess what this you have to properly assess what this you have to properly assess what this person was trying to make you understand person was trying to make you understand person was trying to make you understand and sledge addresses this too and says and sledge addresses this too and says and sledge addresses this too and says quote to the non-combatants and those on quote to the non-combatants and those on quote to the non-combatants and those on the periphery of action the war meant the periphery of action the war meant the periphery of action the war meant only boredom or occasional excitement only boredom or occasional excitement only boredom or occasional excitement but to those who entered the meat but to those who entered the meat but to those who entered the meat grinder itself the war was a Nether

grinder itself the war was a Nether grinder itself the war was a Nether world of horror from which Escape seemed world of horror from which Escape seemed world of horror from which Escape seemed less and less likely as casualties less and less likely as casualties less and less likely as casualties mounted and the fighting dragged on and mounted and the fighting dragged on and mounted and the fighting dragged on and on time had no meaning life had no on time had no meaning life had no on time had no meaning life had no meaning the fierce struggle for survival meaning the fierce struggle for survival meaning the fierce struggle for survival in the the abyss of pelo eroded the in the the abyss of pelo eroded the in the the abyss of pelo eroded the veneer of civilization and made Savages veneer of civilization and made Savages veneer of civilization and made Savages of us all we existed in an environment of us all we existed in an environment of us all we existed in an environment totally incomprehensible to Men Behind totally incomprehensible to Men Behind totally incomprehensible to Men Behind the lines service troops and the lines service troops and the lines service troops and civilians end civilians end civilians end quote when you look at the casualties on quote when you look at the casualties on quote when you look at the casualties on pelo it's like 8,000 Americans roughly pelo it's like 8,000 Americans roughly pelo it's like 8,000 Americans roughly about 16 or 1700 dead which doesn't about 16 or 1700 dead which doesn't about 16 or 1700 dead which doesn't sound like a lot Until you realize the sound like a lot Until you realize the sound like a lot Until you realize the size of the Island right it was like size of the Island right it was like size of the Island right it was like teraa uh the numbers at teraa and the teraa uh the numbers at teraa and the teraa uh the numbers at teraa and the Gilbert Islands earlier don't seem like Gilbert Islands earlier don't seem like Gilbert Islands earlier don't seem like that much until you realize it's like 3 that much until you realize it's like 3 that much until you realize it's like 3 days of fighting for another little tiny days of fighting for another little tiny days of fighting for another little tiny spit of nothing landwise if you could spit of nothing landwise if you could spit of nothing landwise if you could divide the casualties by the square divide the casualties by the square divide the casualties by the square footage of the battlefield you could see footage of the battlefield you could see footage of the battlefield you could see how particularly nasty these Pacific how particularly nasty these Pacific how particularly nasty these Pacific battles were and you don't even have to battles were and you don't even have to battles were and you don't even have to do that for the Japanese because they do that for the Japanese because they do that for the Japanese because they lose between 11 and 13,000 men their lose between 11 and 13,000 men their lose between 11 and 13,000 men their commanding officer of course near the commanding officer of course near the commanding officer of course near the end of the campaign burns the regimental end of the campaign burns the regimental end of the campaign burns the regimental colors um kills him colors um kills him colors um kills him himself and the only people who himself and the only people who himself and the only people who surrender are the normal small small surrender are the normal small small surrender are the normal small small handful of mostly Korean and okan handful of mostly Korean and okan handful of mostly Korean and okan laborers the last organized Japanese laborers the last organized Japanese laborers the last organized Japanese units to surrender on pelalu don't do so units to surrender on pelalu don't do so units to surrender on pelalu don't do so until

until until 1947 two years after the war is over 1947 two years after the war is over 1947 two years after the war is over does that tell you how committed they does that tell you how committed they does that tell you how committed they were to were to were to resisting and how hard an opponent they resisting and how hard an opponent they resisting and how hard an opponent they were the first Marine Division were the first Marine Division were the first Marine Division especially uh the first regiment especially uh the first regiment especially uh the first regiment severely chewed up the first regiment I severely chewed up the first regiment I severely chewed up the first regiment I believe suffers twice as many uh believe suffers twice as many uh believe suffers twice as many uh casualties as is normally considered to casualties as is normally considered to casualties as is normally considered to be uh a unit that's just completely out be uh a unit that's just completely out be uh a unit that's just completely out of commission it would take them months of commission it would take them months of commission it would take them months to to to recover it's some of the worst if not recover it's some of the worst if not recover it's some of the worst if not the worst uh casualty rates the Marines the worst uh casualty rates the Marines the worst uh casualty rates the Marines suffer ever in their suffer ever in their suffer ever in their history and pelo doesn't get enough history and pelo doesn't get enough history and pelo doesn't get enough attention it's not hard to see attention it's not hard to see attention it's not hard to see how an event like pelalu though gets how an event like pelalu though gets how an event like pelalu though gets downplayed after all what country in the downplayed after all what country in the downplayed after all what country in the second world war was not exercising a second world war was not exercising a second world war was not exercising a high level of censorship when it comes high level of censorship when it comes high level of censorship when it comes to showing their public back home what to showing their public back home what to showing their public back home what the war was really like I mean most the war was really like I mean most the war was really like I mean most Americans got their visual impressions Americans got their visual impressions Americans got their visual impressions of what the war looked like through of what the war looked like through of what the war looked like through newsreal footage in the movie theaters newsreal footage in the movie theaters newsreal footage in the movie theaters right often show it uh in between two right often show it uh in between two right often show it uh in between two have of a double feature right you go to have of a double feature right you go to have of a double feature right you go to see your Escapist entertainment you buy see your Escapist entertainment you buy see your Escapist entertainment you buy your popcorn and your Coke you sit down your popcorn and your Coke you sit down your popcorn and your Coke you sit down in the theater and you're confronted in the theater and you're confronted in the theater and you're confronted with with with pelo how's that going to make parents of pelo how's that going to make parents of pelo how's that going to make parents of a marine somewhere in the Pacific that a marine somewhere in the Pacific that a marine somewhere in the Pacific that they just get occasional cards from and they just get occasional cards from and they just get occasional cards from and you're wondering how's Junior doing and you're wondering how's Junior doing and you're wondering how's Junior doing and then you see the footage of

then you see the footage of then you see the footage of pelo or you're a 15 or 16-year-old pelo or you're a 15 or 16-year-old pelo or you're a 15 or 16-year-old American Boy thinking okay in the next American Boy thinking okay in the next American Boy thinking okay in the next couple of years I'm going off to war and couple of years I'm going off to war and couple of years I'm going off to war and then you show them what a two or three then you show them what a two or three then you show them what a two or three or four 4 day battle estimations were um or four 4 day battle estimations were um or four 4 day battle estimations were um what that looks like when it turns into what that looks like when it turns into what that looks like when it turns into a 73 or 74 day battle instead with the a 73 or 74 day battle instead with the a 73 or 74 day battle instead with the highest casualty rates Marines have seen highest casualty rates Marines have seen highest casualty rates Marines have seen I mean that's the kind of thing that not I mean that's the kind of thing that not I mean that's the kind of thing that not only does the public not want to really only does the public not want to really only does the public not want to really see that the government doesn't really see that the government doesn't really see that the government doesn't really want to show it to want to show it to want to show it to them what's more we should point out them what's more we should point out them what's more we should point out that there's a giant giant historical that there's a giant giant historical that there's a giant giant historical news event happening only about 700 news event happening only about 700 news event happening only about 700 miles away that overshadows this whole miles away that overshadows this whole miles away that overshadows this whole thing and overlaps it TimeWise cuz while thing and overlaps it TimeWise cuz while thing and overlaps it TimeWise cuz while pelo is being fought over Douglas pelo is being fought over Douglas pelo is being fought over Douglas MacArthur is returning to the MacArthur is returning to the MacArthur is returning to the Philippines and if you didn't know how Philippines and if you didn't know how Philippines and if you didn't know how big of an historical event this was big of an historical event this was big of an historical event this was Douglas MacArthur's press relations Douglas MacArthur's press relations Douglas MacArthur's press relations people would see to it that you people would see to it that you people would see to it that you did but pelo is hardly the only thing did but pelo is hardly the only thing did but pelo is hardly the only thing that gets overshadowed by all of these that gets overshadowed by all of these that gets overshadowed by all of these big exciting historical occasions that big exciting historical occasions that big exciting historical occasions that are much more positive and would look are much more positive and would look are much more positive and would look much better in the movie theater and the much better in the movie theater and the much better in the movie theater and the news real between the two halves of the news real between the two halves of the news real between the two halves of the double feature I mean how about double feature I mean how about double feature I mean how about submarine warfare and what that's doing submarine warfare and what that's doing submarine warfare and what that's doing to the to the to the Japanese the non seexy side of War as Japanese the non seexy side of War as Japanese the non seexy side of War as we've been calling it the logistics the we've been calling it the logistics the we've been calling it the logistics the supply and what what's fascinating to me supply and what what's fascinating to me supply and what what's fascinating to me is not only is is are things like is not only is is are things like is not only is is are things like Logistics and Supply not all that Logistics and Supply not all that Logistics and Supply not all that interesting to people like yours truly interesting to people like yours truly interesting to people like yours truly or the people who want to war game the

or the people who want to war game the or the people who want to war game the Second World War I can honestly tell you Second World War I can honestly tell you Second World War I can honestly tell you I've I've War gamed many times Japanese I've I've War gamed many times Japanese I've I've War gamed many times Japanese Naval Combat I have never once in my Naval Combat I have never once in my Naval Combat I have never once in my life War gamed a submarine trying to life War gamed a submarine trying to life War gamed a submarine trying to sink a merchant vessel while some um sink a merchant vessel while some um sink a merchant vessel while some um escort ship tries to catch the submarine escort ship tries to catch the submarine escort ship tries to catch the submarine first I mean not only do I not do that first I mean not only do I not do that first I mean not only do I not do that but the Japanese cadets at the Naval but the Japanese cadets at the Naval but the Japanese cadets at the Naval Academy don't want to do Academy don't want to do Academy don't want to do that there's a book called the Japanese that there's a book called the Japanese that there's a book called the Japanese Navy in World War II edited by David C Navy in World War II edited by David C Navy in World War II edited by David C Evans and what it really is a sort of a Evans and what it really is a sort of a Evans and what it really is a sort of a debriefing of the Japanese Admirals debriefing of the Japanese Admirals debriefing of the Japanese Admirals after the war and they all but say that after the war and they all but say that after the war and they all but say that nobody cared about this they blame it on nobody cared about this they blame it on nobody cared about this they blame it on the Japanese um pensions for the offense the Japanese um pensions for the offense the Japanese um pensions for the offense right they want the colorful offense right they want the colorful offense right they want the colorful offense they want the the big decisive Naval they want the the big decisive Naval they want the the big decisive Naval battles which by the way the Americans battles which by the way the Americans battles which by the way the Americans and the Japanese both subscribe to the and the Japanese both subscribe to the and the Japanese both subscribe to the to the Mayan idea of the decisive naval to the Mayan idea of the decisive naval to the Mayan idea of the decisive naval battle so neither one of those country's battle so neither one of those country's battle so neither one of those country's navies were really excited about things navies were really excited about things navies were really excited about things like Commerce like Commerce like Commerce rating but the Japanese didn't put any rating but the Japanese didn't put any rating but the Japanese didn't put any effort into it at all uh one Admiral had effort into it at all uh one Admiral had effort into it at all uh one Admiral had said that if they had thought the United said that if they had thought the United said that if they had thought the United States would use their submarines the States would use their submarines the States would use their submarines the way the Germans were using uots in the way the Germans were using uots in the way the Germans were using uots in the Atlantic to go after Merchant shipping Atlantic to go after Merchant shipping Atlantic to go after Merchant shipping they might not have launched the war at they might not have launched the war at they might not have launched the war at all that shows you how unprepared they all that shows you how unprepared they all that shows you how unprepared they were to deal with it and as we had said were to deal with it and as we had said were to deal with it and as we had said earlier one of the things about Naval earlier one of the things about Naval earlier one of the things about Naval Warfare is in general if you find out Warfare is in general if you find out Warfare is in general if you find out that you haven't built the right ships that you haven't built the right ships that you haven't built the right ships that is a problem that takes at least a that is a problem that takes at least a that is a problem that takes at least a couple of years to solve like when you couple of years to solve like when you couple of years to solve like when you find out because of experience in the find out because of experience in the find out because of experience in the second world war that aircraft carriers second world war that aircraft carriers second world war that aircraft carriers are going to be the new Queen of the are going to be the new Queen of the are going to be the new Queen of the Seas and not battleships well you don't

Seas and not battleships well you don't Seas and not battleships well you don't magically have aircraft carriers you got magically have aircraft carriers you got magically have aircraft carriers you got to go and make some and that takes years to go and make some and that takes years to go and make some and that takes years so if you find out that you don't have so if you find out that you don't have so if you find out that you don't have enough escorts for your Merchant ships enough escorts for your Merchant ships enough escorts for your Merchant ships that's a problem you can't solve all that's a problem you can't solve all that's a problem you can't solve all that quickly and it took the Japanese a that quickly and it took the Japanese a that quickly and it took the Japanese a while to realize it because it took the while to realize it because it took the while to realize it because it took the Americans and the other allies a while Americans and the other allies a while Americans and the other allies a while to really make a dent in the enemy's to really make a dent in the enemy's to really make a dent in the enemy's commercial shipping there's lots of commercial shipping there's lots of commercial shipping there's lots of reasons for this and we mentioned one of reasons for this and we mentioned one of reasons for this and we mentioned one of them earlier in the series we talked them earlier in the series we talked them earlier in the series we talked about the absolute terribleness of about the absolute terribleness of about the absolute terribleness of American Torpedoes and I've read all American Torpedoes and I've read all American Torpedoes and I've read all kinds of accounts where I mean it's kinds of accounts where I mean it's kinds of accounts where I mean it's called a scandal a National Disgrace called a scandal a National Disgrace called a scandal a National Disgrace people should have gone to jail I mean people should have gone to jail I mean people should have gone to jail I mean uh the stories from the Japanese about uh the stories from the Japanese about uh the stories from the Japanese about uh Ships coming back into port with un uh Ships coming back into port with un uh Ships coming back into port with un exploded American Torpedoes sticking out exploded American Torpedoes sticking out exploded American Torpedoes sticking out of the side of the merchant vessels or of the side of the merchant vessels or of the side of the merchant vessels or all the American pilots who Dro their all the American pilots who Dro their all the American pilots who Dro their Torpedoes right right close by an Torpedoes right right close by an Torpedoes right right close by an enticing Japanese Naval Target only to enticing Japanese Naval Target only to enticing Japanese Naval Target only to watch the Torpedoes go right under it watch the Torpedoes go right under it watch the Torpedoes go right under it well that will impact your submarine well that will impact your submarine well that will impact your submarine success rate until you fix that but by success rate until you fix that but by success rate until you fix that but by mid1 1944 the Americans have fixed that mid1 1944 the Americans have fixed that mid1 1944 the Americans have fixed that and now you start to see the tonage and now you start to see the tonage and now you start to see the tonage totals of Japanese Merchant shipping totals of Japanese Merchant shipping totals of Japanese Merchant shipping Skyrocket Skyrocket Skyrocket and submarines will account for about and submarines will account for about and submarines will account for about 60% of the Japanese Merchant ships that 60% of the Japanese Merchant ships that 60% of the Japanese Merchant ships that are sent to the bottom of the sea with are sent to the bottom of the sea with are sent to the bottom of the sea with aircraft uh Allied aircraft of all kinds aircraft uh Allied aircraft of all kinds aircraft uh Allied aircraft of all kinds and from all Allied countries uh and from all Allied countries uh and from all Allied countries uh accounting for most of the accounting for most of the accounting for most of the rest but when you look at the numbers rest but when you look at the numbers rest but when you look at the numbers you get an idea of how the impact is you get an idea of how the impact is you get an idea of how the impact is affecting the Japanese ability to do affecting the Japanese ability to do affecting the Japanese ability to do anything we had talked about the supply

anything we had talked about the supply anything we had talked about the supply problems in Burma how did the Japanese problems in Burma how did the Japanese problems in Burma how did the Japanese get supplies over those mountains get supplies over those mountains get supplies over those mountains through those jungles on those terrible through those jungles on those terrible through those jungles on those terrible roads well the Pacific SE even worse the roads well the Pacific SE even worse the roads well the Pacific SE even worse the Japanese at the time of the Pearl Harbor Japanese at the time of the Pearl Harbor Japanese at the time of the Pearl Harbor attacks had about 6 million tons of attacks had about 6 million tons of attacks had about 6 million tons of merchant shipping and no nation in the merchant shipping and no nation in the merchant shipping and no nation in the second world war has enough Merchant second world war has enough Merchant second world war has enough Merchant shipping is always in short supply for shipping is always in short supply for shipping is always in short supply for everyone including the United States who everyone including the United States who everyone including the United States who can build Merchant ships faster than can build Merchant ships faster than can build Merchant ships faster than anyone ever thought anyone ever thought anyone ever thought possible the Japanese will build another possible the Japanese will build another possible the Japanese will build another three and a half million tons of three and a half million tons of three and a half million tons of merchant shipping during the war but by merchant shipping during the war but by merchant shipping during the war but by December 1944 even with all that they're December 1944 even with all that they're December 1944 even with all that they're down to 2,500,000 tons and the Americans down to 2,500,000 tons and the Americans down to 2,500,000 tons and the Americans are sinking are sinking are sinking hundreds of thousands of tons a month hundreds of thousands of tons a month hundreds of thousands of tons a month and the only way that that number will and the only way that that number will and the only way that that number will slow down and they'll start sinking less slow down and they'll start sinking less slow down and they'll start sinking less Merchant shipping is because eventually Merchant shipping is because eventually Merchant shipping is because eventually they're so successful they run out of they're so successful they run out of they're so successful they run out of targets essentially by late targets essentially by late targets essentially by late 1944 American submarines are doing to 1944 American submarines are doing to 1944 American submarines are doing to Japan what German OTS were hoping to do Japan what German OTS were hoping to do Japan what German OTS were hoping to do to Britain another island nation back to Britain another island nation back to Britain another island nation back during the battle of the Atlantic in during the battle of the Atlantic in during the battle of the Atlantic in 1942 starve an island nation of the 1942 starve an island nation of the 1942 starve an island nation of the resources that it needs to continue to resources that it needs to continue to resources that it needs to continue to fight the fight the fight the war bring them to their war bring them to their war bring them to their knees but the German Navy's idea of knees but the German Navy's idea of knees but the German Navy's idea of bringing Britain to its knees in 1942 in bringing Britain to its knees in 1942 in bringing Britain to its knees in 1942 in the battle of the Atlantic would have the battle of the Atlantic would have the battle of the Atlantic would have involved some sort of Peace Arrangement involved some sort of Peace Arrangement involved some sort of Peace Arrangement right what if you are dropped to your

right what if you are dropped to your right what if you are dropped to your knees as a nation but you still don't knees as a nation but you still don't knees as a nation but you still don't give up right we know if these were give up right we know if these were give up right we know if these were reasonable people they would have reasonable people they would have reasonable people they would have surrendered long ago what if you [ __ ] surrendered long ago what if you [ __ ] surrendered long ago what if you [ __ ] them and they don't give in them and they don't give in them and they don't give in anyway there's a fantastic anecdote and anyway there's a fantastic anecdote and anyway there's a fantastic anecdote and ianw toll by the way as an author is so ianw toll by the way as an author is so ianw toll by the way as an author is so good at finding these historical good at finding these historical good at finding these historical anecdotes that helps dramatize both anecdotes that helps dramatize both anecdotes that helps dramatize both where the supply problem has the where the supply problem has the where the supply problem has the Japanese in terms of options by October Japanese in terms of options by October Japanese in terms of options by October 1944 but also the mood amongst the 1944 but also the mood amongst the 1944 but also the mood amongst the leadership and the decision makers and I leadership and the decision makers and I leadership and the decision makers and I have to say there's a little bit of a have to say there's a little bit of a have to say there's a little bit of a sickness I think to finding this so sickness I think to finding this so sickness I think to finding this so interesting but I've always been interesting but I've always been interesting but I've always been fascinated with that mood that you find fascinated with that mood that you find fascinated with that mood that you find well we always say the extremes of The well we always say the extremes of The well we always say the extremes of The Human Experience but think about the Human Experience but think about the Human Experience but think about the people in Hitler's bunker you know as people in Hitler's bunker you know as people in Hitler's bunker you know as the Battle of Berlin is ramping up so the Battle of Berlin is ramping up so the Battle of Berlin is ramping up so Hitler during the last month and what Hitler during the last month and what Hitler during the last month and what it's like in that room and all those it's like in that room and all those it's like in that room and all those people's psychological States under that people's psychological States under that people's psychological States under that kind of crushing pressure I'm fascinated kind of crushing pressure I'm fascinated kind of crushing pressure I'm fascinated by that you have a similar Dynamic going by that you have a similar Dynamic going by that you have a similar Dynamic going on in Japan at this time period and in on in Japan at this time period and in on in Japan at this time period and in this anecdote IW toll um brings you into this anecdote IW toll um brings you into this anecdote IW toll um brings you into a conference between uh Army heads and a conference between uh Army heads and a conference between uh Army heads and navy heads in navy heads in navy heads in Japan and these guys are putting the Japan and these guys are putting the Japan and these guys are putting the finishing touches on their plan to finishing touches on their plan to finishing touches on their plan to respond to this great historical event respond to this great historical event respond to this great historical event we mentioned earlier that's going to we mentioned earlier that's going to we mentioned earlier that's going to overshadow palalo right the return of overshadow palalo right the return of overshadow palalo right the return of Douglas MacArthur to the Douglas MacArthur to the Douglas MacArthur to the Philippines and the plan is the Philippines and the plan is the Philippines and the plan is the Americans are going to land October 20th Americans are going to land October 20th Americans are going to land October 20th on the Philippine island of Ley and it's

on the Philippine island of Ley and it's on the Philippine island of Ley and it's going to be on right the Japanese know going to be on right the Japanese know going to be on right the Japanese know by that time that the Americans are by that time that the Americans are by that time that the Americans are going to land in the Philippines and going to land in the Philippines and going to land in the Philippines and probably on LY and so they have a plan probably on LY and so they have a plan probably on LY and so they have a plan that's been ready for a little while to that's been ready for a little while to that's been ready for a little while to go disrupt this and they're basically go disrupt this and they're basically go disrupt this and they're basically going to throw in everything the going to throw in everything the going to throw in everything the Japanese fleet has left in order to Japanese fleet has left in order to Japanese fleet has left in order to accomplish this goal but before the plan accomplish this goal but before the plan accomplish this goal but before the plan can happen there's this conference that can happen there's this conference that can happen there's this conference that tol talks about and a general in the tol talks about and a general in the tol talks about and a general in the Army sat who we mentioned earlier Army sat who we mentioned earlier Army sat who we mentioned earlier basically turns to the Navy and says you basically turns to the Navy and says you basically turns to the Navy and says you know know know how is this going to be worth the fuel how is this going to be worth the fuel how is this going to be worth the fuel that we're going to use for the Navy to that we're going to use for the Navy to that we're going to use for the Navy to conduct this operation right um he says conduct this operation right um he says conduct this operation right um he says uh that there's a a fleet of merchant uh that there's a a fleet of merchant uh that there's a a fleet of merchant ships six of them carrying 60,000 tons ships six of them carrying 60,000 tons ships six of them carrying 60,000 tons of oil to Japan right now and that the of oil to Japan right now and that the of oil to Japan right now and that the fleet would basically use all of that fleet would basically use all of that fleet would basically use all of that whereas we could use that 60,000 tons of whereas we could use that 60,000 tons of whereas we could use that 60,000 tons of oil to do a lot of things for the oil to do a lot of things for the oil to do a lot of things for the civilians for the other war effort areas civilians for the other war effort areas civilians for the other war effort areas and it's funny cuz 60,000 tons of oil a and it's funny cuz 60,000 tons of oil a and it's funny cuz 60,000 tons of oil a couple years ago would not have been couple years ago would not have been couple years ago would not have been anywhere near this important but we anywhere near this important but we anywhere near this important but we understand that scarcity makes things understand that scarcity makes things understand that scarcity makes things valuable law of supply and demand and valuable law of supply and demand and valuable law of supply and demand and all that but when the general says this all that but when the general says this all that but when the general says this to the Navy he essentially exposes the to the Navy he essentially exposes the to the Navy he essentially exposes the fact that this is less about the fact that this is less about the fact that this is less about the Japanese Navy trying to make a Japanese Navy trying to make a Japanese Navy trying to make a war-winning difference here although war-winning difference here although war-winning difference here although they'd like to then it is about making they'd like to then it is about making they'd like to then it is about making an honorable end tol says that their an honorable end tol says that their an honorable end tol says that their plan here boils down to like a naval plan here boils down to like a naval plan here boils down to like a naval version of one of those suicidal Bonsai

version of one of those suicidal Bonsai version of one of those suicidal Bonsai attacks the Japanese have been doing on attacks the Japanese have been doing on attacks the Japanese have been doing on land where thousands of their soldiers land where thousands of their soldiers land where thousands of their soldiers will run into machine gun fire with will run into machine gun fire with will run into machine gun fire with bayonets but that's where we are in this bayonets but that's where we are in this bayonets but that's where we are in this story and one of the things that tol's story and one of the things that tol's story and one of the things that tol's antidote deals with is the fact that antidote deals with is the fact that antidote deals with is the fact that these hard-bitten old military guys who these hard-bitten old military guys who these hard-bitten old military guys who are in a room with their sister service are in a room with their sister service are in a room with their sister service right and the Japanese Navy and army right and the Japanese Navy and army right and the Japanese Navy and army don't much care for each other so if the don't much care for each other so if the don't much care for each other so if the one place you don't want to wear your one place you don't want to wear your one place you don't want to wear your emotions on your sleeve is in a room emotions on your sleeve is in a room emotions on your sleeve is in a room full of these kind of people right but full of these kind of people right but full of these kind of people right but everybody's everybody's everybody's crying to writes quote and he begins crying to writes quote and he begins crying to writes quote and he begins this anecdote right after the Japanese this anecdote right after the Japanese this anecdote right after the Japanese General says to the Navy you know how General says to the Navy you know how General says to the Navy you know how how are you going to be able to how are you going to be able to how are you going to be able to accomplish anything worth this fuel the accomplish anything worth this fuel the accomplish anything worth this fuel the 60,000 tons of oil is more important and 60,000 tons of oil is more important and 60,000 tons of oil is more important and tol writes tol writes tol writes quote the speech brought the entire room quote the speech brought the entire room quote the speech brought the entire room including Sato to the brink of Tears he including Sato to the brink of Tears he including Sato to the brink of Tears he had put Japan's predicament into Stark had put Japan's predicament into Stark had put Japan's predicament into Stark relief the honor of the once Mighty relief the honor of the once Mighty relief the honor of the once Mighty Imperial Japanese Navy now mattered less Imperial Japanese Navy now mattered less Imperial Japanese Navy now mattered less than six tankers and the oil that They than six tankers and the oil that They than six tankers and the oil that They Carried even a general could see that Carried even a general could see that Carried even a general could see that the fleet's diminished status was a the fleet's diminished status was a the fleet's diminished status was a portant of Doom quote this was the portant of Doom quote this was the portant of Doom quote this was the saddest feeling I had ever experienced saddest feeling I had ever experienced saddest feeling I had ever experienced end quot Sato end quot Sato end quot Sato wrote tol then points out that wrote tol then points out that wrote tol then points out that everybody's weeping quote sobbing freely everybody's weeping quote sobbing freely everybody's weeping quote sobbing freely rear Admiral tasuku nakazawa of the rear Admiral tasuku nakazawa of the rear Admiral tasuku nakazawa of the naval general staff replied on behalf of naval general staff replied on behalf of naval general staff replied on behalf of the Navy he was grateful to the general

the Navy he was grateful to the general the Navy he was grateful to the general for his kindness but now quote and for his kindness but now quote and for his kindness but now quote and quoting the Admiral now the combined quoting the Admiral now the combined quoting the Admiral now the combined Fleet of the Empire of Japan wishes to Fleet of the Empire of Japan wishes to Fleet of the Empire of Japan wishes to be given a place to end her life end be given a place to end her life end be given a place to end her life end quote tol then says that there's talk of quote tol then says that there's talk of quote tol then says that there's talk of this being a last chance so that the this being a last chance so that the this being a last chance so that the fleet can have a glorious death and then fleet can have a glorious death and then fleet can have a glorious death and then the Admiral points out that this is the the Admiral points out that this is the the Admiral points out that this is the Navy's Earnest Navy's Earnest Navy's Earnest wish toll continues quote after a choked wish toll continues quote after a choked wish toll continues quote after a choked Silence with tears streaming down his Silence with tears streaming down his Silence with tears streaming down his face Sato agreed that the 60,000 tons of face Sato agreed that the 60,000 tons of face Sato agreed that the 60,000 tons of oil should be offered as a quote end oil should be offered as a quote end oil should be offered as a quote end quote parting present to the Navy end quote parting present to the Navy end quote parting present to the Navy end quote told then quote Sato writing that quote told then quote Sato writing that quote told then quote Sato writing that as he walked out of the meeting to the as he walked out of the meeting to the as he walked out of the meeting to the sound of Air Raid Sirens he had prayed sound of Air Raid Sirens he had prayed sound of Air Raid Sirens he had prayed for the heroic end of the combined for the heroic end of the combined for the heroic end of the combined Fleet this idea of a heroic death is one Fleet this idea of a heroic death is one Fleet this idea of a heroic death is one of the fascinating parts of this of the fascinating parts of this of the fascinating parts of this story because if you read the accounts story because if you read the accounts story because if you read the accounts of this affair uh it's interesting that of this affair uh it's interesting that of this affair uh it's interesting that the Japanese the Japanese the Japanese Fleet even though they know they're Fleet even though they know they're Fleet even though they know they're being sent on one of these things that's being sent on one of these things that's being sent on one of these things that's probably a one-way Mission do they Rebel probably a one-way Mission do they Rebel probably a one-way Mission do they Rebel how many fleets around the world in how many fleets around the world in how many fleets around the world in world history would have just rebelled world history would have just rebelled world history would have just rebelled you know struck the colors put up some you know struck the colors put up some you know struck the colors put up some red flag say we're not red flag say we're not red flag say we're not fighting now the Japanese Sailors have a fighting now the Japanese Sailors have a fighting now the Japanese Sailors have a problem with this too but for different problem with this too but for different problem with this too but for different reasons entirely if they're going to go reasons entirely if they're going to go reasons entirely if they're going to go down in the blaze of glory they want it down in the blaze of glory they want it down in the blaze of glory they want it to be glorious they want to be fighting to be glorious they want to be fighting to be glorious they want to be fighting the best the United States has so that

the best the United States has so that the best the United States has so that if they do manage to land some lucky or if they do manage to land some lucky or if they do manage to land some lucky or divinely inspired punch it can do some divinely inspired punch it can do some divinely inspired punch it can do some real damage put us against the US real damage put us against the US real damage put us against the US carriers they're mad that the plan calls carriers they're mad that the plan calls carriers they're mad that the plan calls for them to go after cargo ships and for them to go after cargo ships and for them to go after cargo ships and Supply vessels and Oilers and the stuff Supply vessels and Oilers and the stuff Supply vessels and Oilers and the stuff like that the like that the like that the boring logistical side of War right the boring logistical side of War right the boring logistical side of War right the non sexy side as we've been talking non sexy side as we've been talking non sexy side as we've been talking about that's going to be the target so about that's going to be the target so about that's going to be the target so that MacArthur's recently landed troops that MacArthur's recently landed troops that MacArthur's recently landed troops are starved right on the beaches of are starved right on the beaches of are starved right on the beaches of bullets and bullets and bullets and food but no sailor wants to lose his food but no sailor wants to lose his food but no sailor wants to lose his life trying to fight a cargo vessel life trying to fight a cargo vessel life trying to fight a cargo vessel right that's a no- win situation if you right that's a no- win situation if you right that's a no- win situation if you win there's no honor if you lose you win there's no honor if you lose you win there's no honor if you lose you lost to a cargo vessel and in masanori lost to a cargo vessel and in masanori lost to a cargo vessel and in masanori eto's classic book the end of the eto's classic book the end of the eto's classic book the end of the Imperial Japanese Navy he says the Imperial Japanese Navy he says the Imperial Japanese Navy he says the Admiral here whose name is karita is Admiral here whose name is karita is Admiral here whose name is karita is being bombarded with and that's not being bombarded with and that's not being bombarded with and that's not usual in the Japanese Navy from from usual in the Japanese Navy from from usual in the Japanese Navy from from notes from from average Sailors to being notes from from average Sailors to being notes from from average Sailors to being stopped by his um his officer and asked stopped by his um his officer and asked stopped by his um his officer and asked about this and ETO quotes one of the about this and ETO quotes one of the about this and ETO quotes one of the notes that the Admiral received from notes that the Admiral received from notes that the Admiral received from just a Japanese sailor and the note says just a Japanese sailor and the note says just a Japanese sailor and the note says quote we do not mind death but we are quote we do not mind death but we are quote we do not mind death but we are very concerned for the honor of the very concerned for the honor of the very concerned for the honor of the Japanese Navy if the final effort of our Japanese Navy if the final effort of our Japanese Navy if the final effort of our great Navy should be spent in engaging a great Navy should be spent in engaging a great Navy should be spent in engaging a group of empty cargo ships surely group of empty cargo ships surely group of empty cargo ships surely Admirals Togo and Yamamoto would weep in Admirals Togo and Yamamoto would weep in Admirals Togo and Yamamoto would weep in their graves end quote and ETO says it their graves end quote and ETO says it their graves end quote and ETO says it prompts the Admiral against his will

prompts the Admiral against his will prompts the Admiral against his will really to call his underlings around him really to call his underlings around him really to call his underlings around him and he addresses them and he gives and he addresses them and he gives and he addresses them and he gives another one of these speeches that just another one of these speeches that just another one of these speeches that just to me it's a tone thing you get a sense to me it's a tone thing you get a sense to me it's a tone thing you get a sense of the mood here and as an American we of the mood here and as an American we of the mood here and as an American we have no we have no historical analogy have no we have no historical analogy have no we have no historical analogy certainly not within living memory to certainly not within living memory to certainly not within living memory to allow us to put ourselves in the allow us to put ourselves in the allow us to put ourselves in the emotional shoes if you will of someone emotional shoes if you will of someone emotional shoes if you will of someone who's on the losing end of a war that's who's on the losing end of a war that's who's on the losing end of a war that's not necessarily near over I mean you not necessarily near over I mean you not necessarily near over I mean you have to continue to fight after the have to continue to fight after the have to continue to fight after the decision has happened and how do you do decision has happened and how do you do decision has happened and how do you do that well the Admirals got to Rally his that well the Admirals got to Rally his that well the Admirals got to Rally his Sailors and he said Sailors and he said Sailors and he said quote I know that many of you are quote I know that many of you are quote I know that many of you are strongly opposed to this assignment but strongly opposed to this assignment but strongly opposed to this assignment but the war situation is far more critical the war situation is far more critical the war situation is far more critical than any of you can possibly know would than any of you can possibly know would than any of you can possibly know would it not be a shame to have the fleet it not be a shame to have the fleet it not be a shame to have the fleet remain intact while our nation perishes remain intact while our nation perishes remain intact while our nation perishes I believe that Imperial General I believe that Imperial General I believe that Imperial General headquarters is giving us a glorious headquarters is giving us a glorious headquarters is giving us a glorious opportunity Unity because I realize how opportunity Unity because I realize how opportunity Unity because I realize how very serious the war situation actually very serious the war situation actually very serious the war situation actually is I am willing to accept even this is I am willing to accept even this is I am willing to accept even this ultimate assignment to storm into ly ultimate assignment to storm into ly ultimate assignment to storm into ly Gulf you must all remember that there Gulf you must all remember that there Gulf you must all remember that there are such things as Miracles what man can are such things as Miracles what man can are such things as Miracles what man can say that there is no chance for our say that there is no chance for our say that there is no chance for our Fleet to turn the tide of war in a Fleet to turn the tide of war in a Fleet to turn the tide of war in a decisive battle we shall have the chance decisive battle we shall have the chance decisive battle we shall have the chance to meet our enemies we shall engage his to meet our enemies we shall engage his to meet our enemies we shall engage his task forces I hope that you will not task forces I hope that you will not task forces I hope that you will not carry your responsibility lightly I know carry your responsibility lightly I know carry your responsibility lightly I know that you will act faithfully and

that you will act faithfully and that you will act faithfully and well end quote and then ETO says the well end quote and then ETO says the well end quote and then ETO says the assembled officers raised their arms in assembled officers raised their arms in assembled officers raised their arms in unison and yelled Bonsai well I'm not going to say that Bonsai well I'm not going to say that that Admiral is misinforming his staff that Admiral is misinforming his staff that Admiral is misinforming his staff but maybe he's being a little but maybe he's being a little but maybe he's being a little disingenuous because the plan is to go disingenuous because the plan is to go disingenuous because the plan is to go after cargo ships and Supply ships and after cargo ships and Supply ships and after cargo ships and Supply ships and those kinds of um non-heroic targets but those kinds of um non-heroic targets but those kinds of um non-heroic targets but there's a an understanding might be a there's a an understanding might be a there's a an understanding might be a good way to put it that if you run into good way to put it that if you run into good way to put it that if you run into any American aircraft carriers you can any American aircraft carriers you can any American aircraft carriers you can attack them so maybe we'll call that an attack them so maybe we'll call that an attack them so maybe we'll call that an out clause in the plan the plan by the out clause in the plan the plan by the out clause in the plan the plan by the way uh is one similar to a naval plan way uh is one similar to a naval plan way uh is one similar to a naval plan the Japanese tried earlier in the War uh the Japanese tried earlier in the War uh the Japanese tried earlier in the War uh essentially in order to get to these essentially in order to get to these essentially in order to get to these cargo ships and these Oilers and these cargo ships and these Oilers and these cargo ships and these Oilers and these Supply ships the Japanese have to lure Supply ships the Japanese have to lure Supply ships the Japanese have to lure the warships that are protecting them the warships that are protecting them the warships that are protecting them away so if you think about a defenseless away so if you think about a defenseless away so if you think about a defenseless flock of sheep the Japanese plan here flock of sheep the Japanese plan here flock of sheep the Japanese plan here calls for something to be used as bait calls for something to be used as bait calls for something to be used as bait to try to attract the sheep dog and take to try to attract the sheep dog and take to try to attract the sheep dog and take them away from the flock and then the them away from the flock and then the them away from the flock and then the Japanese divided into several uh Japanese divided into several uh Japanese divided into several uh separate flotillas coming from several separate flotillas coming from several separate flotillas coming from several different angles will pounce on the different angles will pounce on the different angles will pounce on the beach head area and each one of these beach head area and each one of these beach head area and each one of these separate flotillas has its own destiny separate flotillas has its own destiny separate flotillas has its own destiny and its own story in the giant Battle of and its own story in the giant Battle of and its own story in the giant Battle of ly Gulf that's why it's really best ly Gulf that's why it's really best ly Gulf that's why it's really best thought of as 3 to five depending thought of as 3 to five depending thought of as 3 to five depending depending on who you're reading uh depending on who you're reading uh depending on who you're reading uh separate Naval battles smaller ones they separate Naval battles smaller ones they separate Naval battles smaller ones they all have their own names by the way but

all have their own names by the way but all have their own names by the way but they're all the separate fleets and they're all the separate fleets and they're all the separate fleets and their their their Destinies the Japanese flotilla that is Destinies the Japanese flotilla that is Destinies the Japanese flotilla that is designed to be the bait in this plan is designed to be the bait in this plan is designed to be the bait in this plan is using the very best sort of lure that using the very best sort of lure that using the very best sort of lure that you can have if you're trying to attract you can have if you're trying to attract you can have if you're trying to attract late 1944 Admirals also happens to be late 1944 Admirals also happens to be late 1944 Admirals also happens to be the one ship you normally don't want to the one ship you normally don't want to the one ship you normally don't want to let the other side find under any let the other side find under any let the other side find under any conditions conditions conditions it's the Japanese aircraft it's the Japanese aircraft it's the Japanese aircraft carriers they're going to be the carriers they're going to be the carriers they're going to be the equivalent of the matadors cape in this equivalent of the matadors cape in this equivalent of the matadors cape in this plan to attract the attention of a plan to attract the attention of a plan to attract the attention of a bull just so happens that the American bull just so happens that the American bull just so happens that the American Admiral's nickname is bull Admiral bull Admiral's nickname is bull Admiral bull Admiral's nickname is bull Admiral bull Hy and while if the plan goes as planned Hy and while if the plan goes as planned Hy and while if the plan goes as planned the bull is charging up to the Northeast the bull is charging up to the Northeast the bull is charging up to the Northeast area of lison you know up far away from area of lison you know up far away from area of lison you know up far away from the beach heads the other Japanese flip the beach heads the other Japanese flip the beach heads the other Japanese flip tillers can come in from multiple angles tillers can come in from multiple angles tillers can come in from multiple angles and destroy the Americans either you and destroy the Americans either you and destroy the Americans either you know best case scenario while they're know best case scenario while they're know best case scenario while they're actually Landing but even a couple of actually Landing but even a couple of actually Landing but even a couple of days afterwards you could probably cause days afterwards you could probably cause days afterwards you could probably cause great damage right you got Big Ships great damage right you got Big Ships great damage right you got Big Ships coming in here although no aircraft coming in here although no aircraft coming in here although no aircraft carriers but that's the carriers but that's the carriers but that's the plan whatever chance these um Sailors plan whatever chance these um Sailors plan whatever chance these um Sailors had in this upcoming event has been had in this upcoming event has been had in this upcoming event has been whittel away in the previous couple of whittel away in the previous couple of whittel away in the previous couple of weeks because as part of the softening weeks because as part of the softening weeks because as part of the softening up campaign that happens before the

up campaign that happens before the up campaign that happens before the MacArthur Landings American Carrier MacArthur Landings American Carrier MacArthur Landings American Carrier planes have been savaging the entire planes have been savaging the entire planes have been savaging the entire region I mean certainly everything uh region I mean certainly everything uh region I mean certainly everything uh that floats on the ocean but I mean that floats on the ocean but I mean that floats on the ocean but I mean going far inland and hitting facilities going far inland and hitting facilities going far inland and hitting facilities especially especially especially airfields taking out Japanese aircraft airfields taking out Japanese aircraft airfields taking out Japanese aircraft at an alarming pace and it's easy to at an alarming pace and it's easy to at an alarming pace and it's easy to understand why by the way at this point understand why by the way at this point understand why by the way at this point in the war uh all of the Advan ages the in the war uh all of the Advan ages the in the war uh all of the Advan ages the that the Japanese uh pilots and planes that the Japanese uh pilots and planes that the Japanese uh pilots and planes had earlier in the war are tipped on its had earlier in the war are tipped on its had earlier in the war are tipped on its head the Americans have all of those head the Americans have all of those head the Americans have all of those same advantages now they've got the same advantages now they've got the same advantages now they've got the veteran Pilots the Americans have the veteran Pilots the Americans have the veteran Pilots the Americans have the better machines now so the kill ratios better machines now so the kill ratios better machines now so the kill ratios are remarkably one-sided but I mean in are remarkably one-sided but I mean in are remarkably one-sided but I mean in one air battle that goes on for several one air battle that goes on for several one air battle that goes on for several days uh in the air space above Formosa days uh in the air space above Formosa days uh in the air space above Formosa which is now Taiwan in the days leading which is now Taiwan in the days leading which is now Taiwan in the days leading up to McArthur's uh return to the up to McArthur's uh return to the up to McArthur's uh return to the Philippines the Japanese lose something Philippines the Japanese lose something Philippines the Japanese lose something like 700 planes like 700 planes like 700 planes that's according to my Encyclopedia of that's according to my Encyclopedia of that's according to my Encyclopedia of military history uh in masanori eto's military history uh in masanori eto's military history uh in masanori eto's book he quotes one Admiral as saying you book he quotes one Admiral as saying you book he quotes one Admiral as saying you know we lost 205 know we lost 205 know we lost 205 planes on palao right after we lost 345 planes on palao right after we lost 345 planes on palao right after we lost 345 planes over truck and you just get this planes over truck and you just get this planes over truck and you just get this sense of an of an intense level of sense of an of an intense level of sense of an of an intense level of grinding at this point in the war and grinding at this point in the war and grinding at this point in the war and the Japanese industry can't possibly the Japanese industry can't possibly the Japanese industry can't possibly keep up with these kind of losses and keep up with these kind of losses and keep up with these kind of losses and forget about the machines that you're forget about the machines that you're forget about the machines that you're losing for a minute uh in most of these losing for a minute uh in most of these losing for a minute uh in most of these cases you're losing the pilots cases you're losing the pilots cases you're losing the pilots too and the pilots that are uh going up too and the pilots that are uh going up too and the pilots that are uh going up in these air battles uh are often very in these air battles uh are often very in these air battles uh are often very very green and they're going up against very green and they're going up against very green and they're going up against American carrier pilots that are some of

American carrier pilots that are some of American carrier pilots that are some of the best aviators the United States has the best aviators the United States has the best aviators the United States has ever produced so when it comes to ever produced so when it comes to ever produced so when it comes to equipment the Japanese are now very equipment the Japanese are now very equipment the Japanese are now very outclass in the war the one place they outclass in the war the one place they outclass in the war the one place they can actually put up a good fight is when can actually put up a good fight is when can actually put up a good fight is when it comes to their own people's it comes to their own people's it comes to their own people's willingness to fight to the death and I willingness to fight to the death and I willingness to fight to the death and I mean the land battles even with Japanese mean the land battles even with Japanese mean the land battles even with Japanese equipment being inferior with their equipment being inferior with their equipment being inferior with their Logistics shattered are still going to Logistics shattered are still going to Logistics shattered are still going to be horribly difficult opponents but all the Bushido spirit in opponents but all the Bushido spirit in the world doesn't make your aircraft the world doesn't make your aircraft the world doesn't make your aircraft better right so they suffer terribly and better right so they suffer terribly and better right so they suffer terribly and if the Japanese fleet's actions here in if the Japanese fleet's actions here in if the Japanese fleet's actions here in the Philippines was a long shot before the Philippines was a long shot before the Philippines was a long shot before you lose 700 planes that are supposed to you lose 700 planes that are supposed to you lose 700 planes that are supposed to play a very big role in this affair how play a very big role in this affair how play a very big role in this affair how much more of a long shot is it after you much more of a long shot is it after you much more of a long shot is it after you lose them Winston Churchill in his lose them Winston Churchill in his lose them Winston Churchill in his history of the Second World War said history of the Second World War said history of the Second World War said that the enemy Air Force was broken that the enemy Air Force was broken that the enemy Air Force was broken before the Battle of ly was before the Battle of ly was before the Battle of ly was joined speaking of that uh this whole joined speaking of that uh this whole joined speaking of that uh this whole Affair is is part of the tri phibious Affair is is part of the tri phibious Affair is is part of the tri phibious operations uh that surround the the operations uh that surround the the operations uh that surround the the great MacArthur return to the great MacArthur return to the great MacArthur return to the Philippines right the Giant news story Philippines right the Giant news story Philippines right the Giant news story that we talked about earlier that that we talked about earlier that that we talked about earlier that happens on October 20th happens on October 20th happens on October 20th 1944 the Americans uh uh launch this 1944 the Americans uh uh launch this 1944 the Americans uh uh launch this whole campaign early MacArthur arrives whole campaign early MacArthur arrives whole campaign early MacArthur arrives early the good news is it catches the early the good news is it catches the early the good news is it catches the Japanese uh wrong footed I guess you Japanese uh wrong footed I guess you Japanese uh wrong footed I guess you could say the bad news is the Americans could say the bad news is the Americans could say the bad news is the Americans aren't exactly as prepared as they like aren't exactly as prepared as they like aren't exactly as prepared as they like to be to be to be either but even with all the problems

either but even with all the problems either but even with all the problems they still manage the absolutely they still manage the absolutely they still manage the absolutely unbelievable task of Landing more than unbelievable task of Landing more than unbelievable task of Landing more than 100,000 people by midnight on the first 100,000 people by midnight on the first 100,000 people by midnight on the first day that's amazing I've actually seen a day that's amazing I've actually seen a day that's amazing I've actually seen a couple of histories say d plus one which couple of histories say d plus one which couple of histories say d plus one which would be the next day but most of them would be the next day but most of them would be the next day but most of them say on the first day compare and say on the first day compare and say on the first day compare and contrast that with the earlier Landings contrast that with the earlier Landings contrast that with the earlier Landings in the war places like teraa which were in the war places like teraa which were in the war places like teraa which were a chaotic mess with far fewer people a chaotic mess with far fewer people a chaotic mess with far fewer people having to be having to be having to be landed now we should point out there landed now we should point out there landed now we should point out there wasn't much resistance on the beaches wasn't much resistance on the beaches wasn't much resistance on the beaches the Japanese strategy here is to uh the Japanese strategy here is to uh the Japanese strategy here is to uh confront MacArthur more Inland where confront MacArthur more Inland where confront MacArthur more Inland where you're out of the range of all the J you you're out of the range of all the J you you're out of the range of all the J you know the big guns that were firing on know the big guns that were firing on know the big guns that were firing on the beach heads and the planes but the beach heads and the planes but the beach heads and the planes but there's some there's some there's some resistance but 100,000 guys by midnight resistance but 100,000 guys by midnight resistance but 100,000 guys by midnight on the first day that's a well-oiled on the first day that's a well-oiled on the first day that's a well-oiled machine at this point in the and the machine at this point in the and the machine at this point in the and the great Factory assembly line in the the great Factory assembly line in the the great Factory assembly line in the the logistic Supply chains and all that logistic Supply chains and all that logistic Supply chains and all that boring stuff that the United States is boring stuff that the United States is boring stuff that the United States is so good at in its corporate peacetime so good at in its corporate peacetime so good at in its corporate peacetime economy really coming in handy in events economy really coming in handy in events economy really coming in handy in events like this and MacArthur's total Invasion like this and MacArthur's total Invasion like this and MacArthur's total Invasion force uh will number something like force uh will number something like force uh will number something like 175,000 to 200,000 men and boy what a 175,000 to 200,000 men and boy what a 175,000 to 200,000 men and boy what a difference a couple of years in the difference a couple of years in the difference a couple of years in the Pacific War makes doesn't it it's no Pacific War makes doesn't it it's no Pacific War makes doesn't it it's no longer the little brother to places like longer the little brother to places like longer the little brother to places like Europe where where the numbers are Europe where where the numbers are Europe where where the numbers are smaller we're starting to creep up to smaller we're starting to creep up to smaller we're starting to creep up to numbers that they wouldn't sneeze at on numbers that they wouldn't sneeze at on numbers that they wouldn't sneeze at on the Western the Western the Western Front the Japanese resistors by the way Front the Japanese resistors by the way Front the Japanese resistors by the way who are spread out over a bunch of the who are spread out over a bunch of the who are spread out over a bunch of the different Philippine Islands uh they're different Philippine Islands uh they're different Philippine Islands uh they're estimated to be between 300 and 350,000

estimated to be between 300 and 350,000 estimated to be between 300 and 350,000 men so a large battle men so a large battle men so a large battle indeed one thing that is worth pointing indeed one thing that is worth pointing indeed one thing that is worth pointing out is that there are really two kinds out is that there are really two kinds out is that there are really two kinds of Island battles in this war um the of Island battles in this war um the of Island battles in this war um the kind that have a relatively free area kind that have a relatively free area kind that have a relatively free area without a civilian population to worry without a civilian population to worry without a civilian population to worry about and the kind that about and the kind that about and the kind that don't Palo don't Palo don't Palo teraa iima not a big civilian population teraa iima not a big civilian population teraa iima not a big civilian population to worry about sipan okanawa the to worry about sipan okanawa the to worry about sipan okanawa the Philippines just the Philippines just the Philippines just the opposite and we had just talked in the opposite and we had just talked in the opposite and we had just talked in the last segment about the disaster the last segment about the disaster the last segment about the disaster the humanitarian nightmare that cpan was humanitarian nightmare that cpan was humanitarian nightmare that cpan was with civilians jumping off of cliffs and with civilians jumping off of cliffs and with civilians jumping off of cliffs and getting caught in the crossfire and and getting caught in the crossfire and and getting caught in the crossfire and and the high level of Civilian deaths well the high level of Civilian deaths well the high level of Civilian deaths well sipan's miniature compared to the 15 to sipan's miniature compared to the 15 to sipan's miniature compared to the 15 to 16 million people that live in the 16 million people that live in the 16 million people that live in the Philippines Philippines Philippines and okanawa is very populated too so in and okanawa is very populated too so in and okanawa is very populated too so in the distance you can see these areas the distance you can see these areas the distance you can see these areas that the human being lawnmower is going that the human being lawnmower is going that the human being lawnmower is going to just crisscross and when we had given to just crisscross and when we had given to just crisscross and when we had given those numbers at the beginning of this those numbers at the beginning of this those numbers at the beginning of this segment where we were talking about uh segment where we were talking about uh segment where we were talking about uh every month in 1944 what did it say 200 every month in 1944 what did it say 200 every month in 1944 what did it say 200 to to to 250,000 civilian Cas innocent civilian 250,000 civilian Cas innocent civilian 250,000 civilian Cas innocent civilian casualties in casualties in casualties in Asia this is in Asia but you can see Asia this is in Asia but you can see Asia this is in Asia but you can see these numbers in the distance right I these numbers in the distance right I these numbers in the distance right I mean wait till the Japanese and the mean wait till the Japanese and the mean wait till the Japanese and the Americans start fighting over the urban Americans start fighting over the urban Americans start fighting over the urban center that is Manila in 1945 MacArthur by the way will show up 1945 MacArthur by the way will show up himself uh on the first day step out of

himself uh on the first day step out of himself uh on the first day step out of the uh landing craft or the whaler I the uh landing craft or the whaler I the uh landing craft or the whaler I read in one account with his pressed read in one account with his pressed read in one account with his pressed khakis aviator khakis aviator khakis aviator sunglasses his completely non-regulation sunglasses his completely non-regulation sunglasses his completely non-regulation and I don't know how he gets away with and I don't know how he gets away with and I don't know how he gets away with it uh Philippine field Marshall cap as it uh Philippine field Marshall cap as it uh Philippine field Marshall cap as he called he called he called it steps out of the craft gets his uh it steps out of the craft gets his uh it steps out of the craft gets his uh pants wet from the knees down in a photo pants wet from the knees down in a photo pants wet from the knees down in a photo that is so good you can't believe it's that is so good you can't believe it's that is so good you can't believe it's not staged I mean it looks like a poster not staged I mean it looks like a poster not staged I mean it looks like a poster the camera people on the shore get him the camera people on the shore get him the camera people on the shore get him striding back onto Philippine soil a striding back onto Philippine soil a striding back onto Philippine soil a couple of years after he was couple of years after he was couple of years after he was unceremoniously thrown out of unceremoniously thrown out of unceremoniously thrown out of it at some point he'll get his hands on it at some point he'll get his hands on it at some point he'll get his hands on a microphone and say people of the a microphone and say people of the a microphone and say people of the Philippines I have returned rally to Philippines I have returned rally to Philippines I have returned rally to me and he'll begin his campaign to along me and he'll begin his campaign to along me and he'll begin his campaign to along on with the help of the Filipinos throw on with the help of the Filipinos throw on with the help of the Filipinos throw the Japanese out of the the Japanese out of the the Japanese out of the Philippines the first Japanese Fleet is Philippines the first Japanese Fleet is Philippines the first Japanese Fleet is not cited for three not cited for three not cited for three days and two submarines uh in the late days and two submarines uh in the late days and two submarines uh in the late night hours on October 23rd I think it night hours on October 23rd I think it night hours on October 23rd I think it is spot one of these is spot one of these is spot one of these flotillas and this is traditionally the flotillas and this is traditionally the flotillas and this is traditionally the beginning of the battle of L Gulf the beginning of the battle of L Gulf the beginning of the battle of L Gulf the naval battle of ly naval battle of ly naval battle of ly golf put me in the category of those who golf put me in the category of those who golf put me in the category of those who think that this is a highly overrated think that this is a highly overrated think that this is a highly overrated battle although people battle although people battle although people differ Francis Pike and hirohito's War differ Francis Pike and hirohito's War differ Francis Pike and hirohito's War says the reason it doesn't get the says the reason it doesn't get the says the reason it doesn't get the attention some of its more vigorous attention some of its more vigorous attention some of its more vigorous proponents wish that it would is because

proponents wish that it would is because proponents wish that it would is because the stakes aren't that high and he the stakes aren't that high and he the stakes aren't that high and he mentions several other very famous Naval mentions several other very famous Naval mentions several other very famous Naval battles in throughout battles in throughout battles in throughout history and talks about how uh the history and talks about how uh the history and talks about how uh the decision which way that battle went one decision which way that battle went one decision which way that battle went one way or the other had huge war changing way or the other had huge war changing way or the other had huge war changing ramifications and this doesn't ramifications and this doesn't ramifications and this doesn't I would even suggest that a battle that I would even suggest that a battle that I would even suggest that a battle that I've done 45 minutes on before the I've done 45 minutes on before the I've done 45 minutes on before the Battle of Jutland which if it were a Battle of Jutland which if it were a Battle of Jutland which if it were a boxing match you would say it ended as a boxing match you would say it ended as a boxing match you would say it ended as a no contest I would say that that counts no contest I would say that that counts no contest I would say that that counts as a much more interesting affair as a much more interesting affair as a much more interesting affair because if one side had had an because if one side had had an because if one side had had an overwhelming Victory and that was overwhelming Victory and that was overwhelming Victory and that was possible well that would have been a possible well that would have been a possible well that would have been a huge warch changing sort of huge warch changing sort of huge warch changing sort of event the best the Japanese can hope for event the best the Japanese can hope for event the best the Japanese can hope for here is to lengthen the war and if they here is to lengthen the war and if they here is to lengthen the war and if they lengthen the war maybe get better peace lengthen the war maybe get better peace lengthen the war maybe get better peace terms so anybody that is giving their terms so anybody that is giving their terms so anybody that is giving their life in this contest is doing this in life in this contest is doing this in life in this contest is doing this in order to establish well in this case order to establish well in this case order to establish well in this case keep the imperial system in the emperor keep the imperial system in the emperor keep the imperial system in the emperor right the Imperial polity as it's right the Imperial polity as it's right the Imperial polity as it's sometimes called because that's the sometimes called because that's the sometimes called because that's the sticking sticking sticking point but there are a lot of people who point but there are a lot of people who point but there are a lot of people who look at this battle as something more look at this battle as something more look at this battle as something more than an execution and I don't think I'm than an execution and I don't think I'm than an execution and I don't think I'm one of one of one of them and by that I mean uh the Battle of them and by that I mean uh the Battle of them and by that I mean uh the Battle of ly Gulf has a couple of things ly Gulf has a couple of things ly Gulf has a couple of things associated with it that sound really associated with it that sound really associated with it that sound really like a big deal like a big deal like a big deal uh for example you'll hear that it is uh for example you'll hear that it is uh for example you'll hear that it is the greatest naval battle of all time or the greatest naval battle of all time or the greatest naval battle of all time or the largest naval battle of all time the largest naval battle of all time the largest naval battle of all time which might be which might be which might be true but what that kind of conceals is true but what that kind of conceals is true but what that kind of conceals is that the United States outnumbers the that the United States outnumbers the that the United States outnumbers the Japanese in warships four or five to

Japanese in warships four or five to Japanese in warships four or five to one they outnumber them in aircraft 5 to one they outnumber them in aircraft 5 to one they outnumber them in aircraft 5 to one one one um the Japanese have almost no aircraft um the Japanese have almost no aircraft um the Japanese have almost no aircraft capability they certainly have I mean capability they certainly have I mean capability they certainly have I mean it's just this is a a very one-sided it's just this is a a very one-sided it's just this is a a very one-sided fair from the get-go the only reason fair from the get-go the only reason fair from the get-go the only reason though it has some drama you know it though it has some drama you know it though it has some drama you know it reminds me I have to say of one of those reminds me I have to say of one of those reminds me I have to say of one of those early Mike Tyson fights where he was early Mike Tyson fights where he was early Mike Tyson fights where he was knocking out guys in 45 seconds but you knocking out guys in 45 seconds but you knocking out guys in 45 seconds but you you bought the pay-per-view so they you bought the pay-per-view so they you bought the pay-per-view so they always had to have a a postf fight always had to have a a postf fight always had to have a a postf fight analysis segment where somebody would analysis segment where somebody would analysis segment where somebody would have to try to find a way that the other have to try to find a way that the other have to try to find a way that the other guy might have won you know oh he tapped guy might have won you know oh he tapped guy might have won you know oh he tapped him on the chin uh at the 16-second Mark him on the chin uh at the 16-second Mark him on the chin uh at the 16-second Mark and if if that had hurt Mike we'd have and if if that had hurt Mike we'd have and if if that had hurt Mike we'd have had a whole different fight right here had a whole different fight right here had a whole different fight right here and that's kind of how I feel about the and that's kind of how I feel about the and that's kind of how I feel about the Battle of laty Gulf it's a disaster for Battle of laty Gulf it's a disaster for Battle of laty Gulf it's a disaster for the Japanese except a mistake happens at the Japanese except a mistake happens at the Japanese except a mistake happens at some point uh in the affair that allows some point uh in the affair that allows some point uh in the affair that allows one Japanese flotilla uh to get into the one Japanese flotilla uh to get into the one Japanese flotilla uh to get into the back field you would say if this were back field you would say if this were back field you would say if this were football uh begin tearing up some escort football uh begin tearing up some escort football uh begin tearing up some escort carriers uh and if the escort carriers carriers uh and if the escort carriers carriers uh and if the escort carriers had all been torn up could have broken had all been torn up could have broken had all been torn up could have broken into the uh landing area which might into the uh landing area which might into the uh landing area which might have been vulnerable I mean there's a have been vulnerable I mean there's a have been vulnerable I mean there's a lot of mites and wha ifs and and that is lot of mites and wha ifs and and that is lot of mites and wha ifs and and that is history right especially military history right especially military history right especially military history but I think sometimes the idea history but I think sometimes the idea history but I think sometimes the idea that this would have been catastrophic that this would have been catastrophic that this would have been catastrophic is is is overplayed there's a case to be made overplayed there's a case to be made overplayed there's a case to be made that if all the worst things had that if all the worst things had that if all the worst things had happened in the Japanese Fleet started happened in the Japanese Fleet started happened in the Japanese Fleet started tearing up the beach head areas that tearing up the beach head areas that tearing up the beach head areas that that just would have made them that just would have made them that just would have made them stationary when the American planes stationary when the American planes stationary when the American planes eventually came back and found that and eventually came back and found that and eventually came back and found that and they would have lost even more they would have lost even more they would have lost even more ships the bottom line is when the Battle ships the bottom line is when the Battle ships the bottom line is when the Battle of L gul's over though the Japanese lose

of L gul's over though the Japanese lose of L gul's over though the Japanese lose four aircraft carriers three battleships four aircraft carriers three battleships four aircraft carriers three battleships 10 Cruisers 11 destroyers and they sink 10 Cruisers 11 destroyers and they sink 10 Cruisers 11 destroyers and they sink you know like a light carrier they sink you know like a light carrier they sink you know like a light carrier they sink a escort carryer I mean it's just a a escort carryer I mean it's just a a escort carryer I mean it's just a disaster one of their fleets gets wiped out in one of their fleets gets wiped out in one of the greatest Ambush attacks in one of the greatest Ambush attacks in one of the greatest Ambush attacks in Naval History where and it's sort of a Naval History where and it's sort of a Naval History where and it's sort of a little karmic retribution a bunch of the little karmic retribution a bunch of the little karmic retribution a bunch of the uh battleships World Old World War one uh battleships World Old World War one uh battleships World Old World War one type battleships that were damaged at type battleships that were damaged at type battleships that were damaged at Pearl Harbor were raised reff floated Pearl Harbor were raised reff floated Pearl Harbor were raised reff floated refitted and um and were here and and refitted and um and were here and and refitted and um and were here and and participated in the Ambush um and did a participated in the Ambush um and did a participated in the Ambush um and did a lot of damage but I mean from an lot of damage but I mean from an lot of damage but I mean from an American standpoint it's you could look American standpoint it's you could look American standpoint it's you could look at it as a raw raw moment because it at it as a raw raw moment because it at it as a raw raw moment because it really uh inflicts a defeat on the really uh inflicts a defeat on the really uh inflicts a defeat on the Japanese Navy that they never recover Japanese Navy that they never recover Japanese Navy that they never recover from and the the Navy will be reduced to from and the the Navy will be reduced to from and the the Navy will be reduced to um impotence after um impotence after um impotence after this American Air power just shredded this American Air power just shredded this American Air power just shredded Japanese Naval assets whenever it found Japanese Naval assets whenever it found Japanese Naval assets whenever it found it a lesson that had already been it a lesson that had already been it a lesson that had already been learned several times in this war is learned several times in this war is learned several times in this war is reinforced and that by October 1944 if reinforced and that by October 1944 if reinforced and that by October 1944 if one side has powerful Naval Air assets one side has powerful Naval Air assets one side has powerful Naval Air assets and the other doesn't the way the battle and the other doesn't the way the battle and the other doesn't the way the battle is going to go is pretty much a foregone is going to go is pretty much a foregone is going to go is pretty much a foregone conclusion conclusion conclusion so with the exception of uh the one so with the exception of uh the one so with the exception of uh the one fantastic night Ambush where the fantastic night Ambush where the fantastic night Ambush where the American battleships from Pearl Harbor American battleships from Pearl Harbor American battleships from Pearl Harbor ended up um crushing that one Japanese ended up um crushing that one Japanese ended up um crushing that one Japanese flotilla the damage is pretty much done flotilla the damage is pretty much done flotilla the damage is pretty much done by American by American by American aircraft just as the Japanese Admirals

aircraft just as the Japanese Admirals aircraft just as the Japanese Admirals assumed it would be the Battle of ly Gulf is famous for be the Battle of ly Gulf is famous for something else though something else though something else though too it's considered to be the battle too it's considered to be the battle too it's considered to be the battle where the suicide attacks known as where the suicide attacks known as where the suicide attacks known as kamakazi attacks first happen in real kamakazi attacks first happen in real kamakazi attacks first happen in real numbers there may have been some early numbers there may have been some early numbers there may have been some early attacks earlier and there were attacks earlier and there were attacks earlier and there were definitely suicide attacks with the definitely suicide attacks with the definitely suicide attacks with the Japanese all throughout the war but as Japanese all throughout the war but as Japanese all throughout the war but as an organized effort unleashing trained an organized effort unleashing trained an organized effort unleashing trained and tactically organized for maximum and tactically organized for maximum and tactically organized for maximum effect suicide squads you first see this effect suicide squads you first see this effect suicide squads you first see this at L at L at L Gulf and John Tolland in his 1970 book Gulf and John Tolland in his 1970 book Gulf and John Tolland in his 1970 book The Rising Sun Chronicles one of these The Rising Sun Chronicles one of these The Rising Sun Chronicles one of these early famous attacks and it's famous early famous attacks and it's famous early famous attacks and it's famous because the kamakazi came in and did because the kamakazi came in and did because the kamakazi came in and did some damage and I try to imagine the some damage and I try to imagine the some damage and I try to imagine the Americans watching this as it unfolds Americans watching this as it unfolds Americans watching this as it unfolds trying to figure out what it is they're trying to figure out what it is they're trying to figure out what it is they're seeing and trying to come to grips with seeing and trying to come to grips with seeing and trying to come to grips with are these guys deliberately trying to are these guys deliberately trying to are these guys deliberately trying to smash into us and take their own smash into us and take their own smash into us and take their own lives the event happens uh in that one lives the event happens uh in that one lives the event happens uh in that one moment in time at the Battle of L Gulf moment in time at the Battle of L Gulf moment in time at the Battle of L Gulf didn't we say that that the enemy didn't we say that that the enemy didn't we say that that the enemy flotillas you know enemy if you're an flotillas you know enemy if you're an flotillas you know enemy if you're an American uh get into the back field American uh get into the back field American uh get into the back field right and they're they they're fighting right and they're they they're fighting right and they're they they're fighting with these escort carriers and you do with these escort carriers and you do with these escort carriers and you do have the rather interesting moment where have the rather interesting moment where have the rather interesting moment where you have the super battleship Yamato for you have the super battleship Yamato for you have the super battleship Yamato for the first time in the war I believe the first time in the war I believe the first time in the war I believe firing its guns in Anger it's 18.1 inch firing its guns in Anger it's 18.1 inch firing its guns in Anger it's 18.1 inch guns shells the size of volkswagons at guns shells the size of volkswagons at guns shells the size of volkswagons at American carriers 18 or 19 miles away American carriers 18 or 19 miles away American carriers 18 or 19 miles away escort carriers it must be said they escort carriers it must be said they escort carriers it must be said they were called Jeep were called Jeep were called Jeep carriers and then about an hour after uh

carriers and then about an hour after uh carriers and then about an hour after uh these Japanese battleships inexplicably these Japanese battleships inexplicably these Japanese battleships inexplicably turn away giving the escort carriers uh turn away giving the escort carriers uh turn away giving the escort carriers uh after having lost a ship uh and and after having lost a ship uh and and after having lost a ship uh and and others damaged a a reprieve from the others damaged a a reprieve from the others damaged a a reprieve from the governor and then something else shows governor and then something else shows governor and then something else shows up and Tolland writes quote and by the up and Tolland writes quote and by the up and Tolland writes quote and by the way I'm going to add the word escort way I'm going to add the word escort way I'm going to add the word escort carrier in front of all these ships that carrier in front of all these ships that carrier in front of all these ships that are escort carriers where he just gives are escort carriers where he just gives are escort carriers where he just gives the name it gets confusing quote for the name it gets confusing quote for the name it gets confusing quote for over an hour all was quiet then at 10:50 over an hour all was quiet then at 10:50 over an hour all was quiet then at 10:50 General quarters was again sounded on General quarters was again sounded on General quarters was again sounded on the five surviving Jeep carriers nine the five surviving Jeep carriers nine the five surviving Jeep carriers nine enemy planes were approaching at massed enemy planes were approaching at massed enemy planes were approaching at massed level so low that radar had failed to level so low that radar had failed to level so low that radar had failed to pick them up they climbed to several pick them up they climbed to several pick them up they climbed to several thousand feet as American fighters tried thousand feet as American fighters tried thousand feet as American fighters tried to intercept them 5 Z Fighters with to intercept them 5 Z Fighters with to intercept them 5 Z Fighters with bombs lashed to their wings emerged from bombs lashed to their wings emerged from bombs lashed to their wings emerged from the Milling mass and slanted down toward the Milling mass and slanted down toward the Milling mass and slanted down toward the Jeeps they were led by a recently the Jeeps they were led by a recently the Jeeps they were led by a recently married Lieutenant Commander I hope I married Lieutenant Commander I hope I married Lieutenant Commander I hope I pronounced his name correctly Yuki oi pronounced his name correctly Yuki oi pronounced his name correctly Yuki oi one Z Tolland writes headed for the one Z Tolland writes headed for the one Z Tolland writes headed for the bridge of the escort carrier kitkun Bay bridge of the escort carrier kitkun Bay bridge of the escort carrier kitkun Bay its machine guns winking onlookers its machine guns winking onlookers its machine guns winking onlookers expected it to pull up instead it drove expected it to pull up instead it drove expected it to pull up instead it drove into the P catwalk exploded and tumbled into the P catwalk exploded and tumbled into the P catwalk exploded and tumbled on into the sea two others roared on into the sea two others roared on into the sea two others roared straight at the escort carrier fans Shaw straight at the escort carrier fans Shaw straight at the escort carrier fans Shaw Bay also with obvious intent to crash Bay also with obvious intent to crash Bay also with obvious intent to crash into her only to disintegrate at the into her only to disintegrate at the into her only to disintegrate at the last moment the final two veered off last moment the final two veered off last moment the final two veered off from the heavy fire thrown up by the from the heavy fire thrown up by the from the heavy fire thrown up by the escort carrier white planes one trailing escort carrier white planes one trailing escort carrier white planes one trailing smoke banked toward the escort carrier

smoke banked toward the escort carrier smoke banked toward the escort carrier ST Low in a right turn as if intending ST Low in a right turn as if intending ST Low in a right turn as if intending to land but the pilot pushed the little to land but the pilot pushed the little to land but the pilot pushed the little plane over slamming it into the flight plane over slamming it into the flight plane over slamming it into the flight deck fires spread throughout the hanger deck fires spread throughout the hanger deck fires spread throughout the hanger deck setting off a chain of violent deck setting off a chain of violent deck setting off a chain of violent internal explosions after having internal explosions after having internal explosions after having survived the running battle unscathed ST survived the running battle unscathed ST survived the running battle unscathed ST Low Low Low sank end sank end sank end quote I've been fascinated by this quote I've been fascinated by this quote I've been fascinated by this phenomenon of the kamakazi since I first phenomenon of the kamakazi since I first phenomenon of the kamakazi since I first learned about him as a kid and I know learned about him as a kid and I know learned about him as a kid and I know many of you have been fascinated with many of you have been fascinated with many of you have been fascinated with them too and like me if you've continued them too and like me if you've continued them too and like me if you've continued to read up on them your views on them to read up on them your views on them to read up on them your views on them have probably changed 100 180° too when have probably changed 100 180° too when have probably changed 100 180° too when I was a kid we were basically taught I was a kid we were basically taught I was a kid we were basically taught these were these were these were fanatic you know Kool-Aid drinkers who fanatic you know Kool-Aid drinkers who fanatic you know Kool-Aid drinkers who would give their lives up without even would give their lives up without even would give their lives up without even giving it a second thought for the giving it a second thought for the giving it a second thought for the emperor very non-complicated robots and now when you read their last robots and now when you read their last letters and their diary entries the letters and their diary entries the letters and their diary entries the whole time that they were training for whole time that they were training for whole time that they were training for these missions but knowing that they these missions but knowing that they these missions but knowing that they were dead men walking or dead men flying were dead men walking or dead men flying were dead men walking or dead men flying or dead men piloting the human torpedo or dead men piloting the human torpedo or dead men piloting the human torpedo whatever it might have been your heart whatever it might have been your heart whatever it might have been your heart breaks in a lot of these breaks in a lot of these breaks in a lot of these cases first of all these are not your cases first of all these are not your cases first of all these are not your hard-bitten military men which I found hard-bitten military men which I found hard-bitten military men which I found very interesting uh when the program was very interesting uh when the program was very interesting uh when the program was first developed they asked military men first developed they asked military men first developed they asked military men to volunteer and do you know how many to volunteer and do you know how many to volunteer and do you know how many military men did according to military men did according to military men did according to Anthropologist amiko onuki tyy who wrote Anthropologist amiko onuki tyy who wrote Anthropologist amiko onuki tyy who wrote The Fabulous book kamakazi cherry The Fabulous book kamakazi cherry The Fabulous book kamakazi cherry blossoms and nationalisms the number of

blossoms and nationalisms the number of blossoms and nationalisms the number of hard-bitten military men that said yeah hard-bitten military men that said yeah hard-bitten military men that said yeah I'll volunteer for that suicide mission I'll volunteer for that suicide mission I'll volunteer for that suicide mission was none was none was none and she italicized the word and she italicized the word and she italicized the word none this is a bit of a problem if none this is a bit of a problem if none this is a bit of a problem if you're trying to Kickstart a brand new you're trying to Kickstart a brand new you're trying to Kickstart a brand new program and get people interested in it program and get people interested in it program and get people interested in it so apparently the military just decided so apparently the military just decided so apparently the military just decided to then point to some people and say to then point to some people and say to then point to some people and say okay you're volunteering you're okay you're volunteering you're okay you're volunteering you're volunteering you're volunteering and one volunteering you're volunteering and one volunteering you're volunteering and one of them was this pilot John Tolland had of them was this pilot John Tolland had of them was this pilot John Tolland had used in his book Yuki oi portrayed as used in his book Yuki oi portrayed as used in his book Yuki oi portrayed as this willing you know ready to die for this willing you know ready to die for this willing you know ready to die for the emperor guy turns out not so willing the emperor guy turns out not so willing the emperor guy turns out not so willing but that was not news that made it into but that was not news that made it into but that was not news that made it into the propaganda at the time before he he the propaganda at the time before he he the propaganda at the time before he he flies off to crash his plane into an flies off to crash his plane into an flies off to crash his plane into an enemy ship he does an interview with a enemy ship he does an interview with a enemy ship he does an interview with a reporter whose job it is to get the good reporter whose job it is to get the good reporter whose job it is to get the good story for the Japanese propaganda and story for the Japanese propaganda and story for the Japanese propaganda and instead gets a whole bunch of stuff from instead gets a whole bunch of stuff from instead gets a whole bunch of stuff from this pilot that he can't release he this pilot that he can't release he this pilot that he can't release he talks about it in a letter decades later talks about it in a letter decades later talks about it in a letter decades later but the great Yukio SEI early kamakazi but the great Yukio SEI early kamakazi but the great Yukio SEI early kamakazi pilot spat this out to the reporter at pilot spat this out to the reporter at pilot spat this out to the reporter at the time quote there is no more hope for the time quote there is no more hope for the time quote there is no more hope for Japan if it has to kill such a skillful Japan if it has to kill such a skillful Japan if it has to kill such a skillful pilot like myself pilot like myself pilot like myself I can hit an aircraft carrier with an I can hit an aircraft carrier with an I can hit an aircraft carrier with an 112 lb bomb and return alive without 112 lb bomb and return alive without 112 lb bomb and return alive without having to make a suicidal plunge onuki having to make a suicidal plunge onuki having to make a suicidal plunge onuki tney then says quote at that time SEI tney then says quote at that time SEI tney then says quote at that time SEI had been married for only six months to had been married for only six months to had been married for only six months to a woman with whom he was passionately in a woman with whom he was passionately in a woman with whom he was passionately in love he explained to the reporter quote love he explained to the reporter quote love he explained to the reporter quote if it is in order I will go but I am not if it is in order I will go but I am not if it is in order I will go but I am not going to die for the Emperor or for

going to die for the Emperor or for going to die for the Emperor or for Imperial Japan I am going for my beloved Imperial Japan I am going for my beloved Imperial Japan I am going for my beloved wife if Japan loses she might be raped wife if Japan loses she might be raped wife if Japan loses she might be raped by Americans I am dying for someone I by Americans I am dying for someone I by Americans I am dying for someone I love most to protect her end love most to protect her end love most to protect her end quote this mirrors what you read from a quote this mirrors what you read from a quote this mirrors what you read from a lot of these Pilots although it should lot of these Pilots although it should lot of these Pilots although it should be noted there were thousands of them be noted there were thousands of them be noted there were thousands of them and they run the gamut in terms of of and they run the gamut in terms of of and they run the gamut in terms of of the differences in their background and the differences in their background and the differences in their background and some of them do seem a little like the some of them do seem a little like the some of them do seem a little like the robotic figures who seem to have been robotic figures who seem to have been robotic figures who seem to have been brainwashed into just dying for the brainwashed into just dying for the brainwashed into just dying for the emperor and happy to do it some of those emperor and happy to do it some of those emperor and happy to do it some of those people fit that mold but most of them people fit that mold but most of them people fit that mold but most of them don't don't don't what's more since they can't get the what's more since they can't get the what's more since they can't get the professionals to volunteer to do this professionals to volunteer to do this professionals to volunteer to do this they go after like Cadets and and they go after like Cadets and and they go after like Cadets and and training pilots and students at the training pilots and students at the training pilots and students at the University this is one of the really University this is one of the really University this is one of the really weird things about this program you weird things about this program you weird things about this program you could see the Nazi Germany regime for could see the Nazi Germany regime for could see the Nazi Germany regime for example may be picking up the dereli off example may be picking up the dereli off example may be picking up the dereli off the street or the people the the street or the people the the street or the people the undesirables that they'd thrown into undesirables that they'd thrown into undesirables that they'd thrown into concentration camps or those kinds you concentration camps or those kinds you concentration camps or those kinds you know the discredited people and making know the discredited people and making know the discredited people and making them the suicide Pilots the Japanese them the suicide Pilots the Japanese them the suicide Pilots the Japanese instead make a lot of these suicide instead make a lot of these suicide instead make a lot of these suicide Pilots come from their best and their Pilots come from their best and their Pilots come from their best and their brightest the kids at the elite colleges brightest the kids at the elite colleges brightest the kids at the elite colleges really if you look at them and you read really if you look at them and you read really if you look at them and you read the accounts they almost seem like the the accounts they almost seem like the the accounts they almost seem like the people that were picked on by all these people that were picked on by all these people that were picked on by all these Macho you know military types who when Macho you know military types who when Macho you know military types who when they finally show up to be comicazi are they finally show up to be comicazi are they finally show up to be comicazi are picked on even more treated like nerds picked on even more treated like nerds picked on even more treated like nerds the For Eyes the the uh brainiacs of I the For Eyes the the uh brainiacs of I the For Eyes the the uh brainiacs of I mean mean mean it's it's interesting to read who these

it's it's interesting to read who these it's it's interesting to read who these people were though and Ian W toll in his people were though and Ian W toll in his people were though and Ian W toll in his book Twilight of the Gods has a quick book Twilight of the Gods has a quick book Twilight of the Gods has a quick rundown and he writes rundown and he writes rundown and he writes quote about half of the kamakazi pilots quote about half of the kamakazi pilots quote about half of the kamakazi pilots of 1945 have been drawn from the ranks of 1945 have been drawn from the ranks of 1945 have been drawn from the ranks of University students many were of University students many were of University students many were Cosmopolitan intellectuals who had been Cosmopolitan intellectuals who had been Cosmopolitan intellectuals who had been exposed to foreign ideas and influences exposed to foreign ideas and influences exposed to foreign ideas and influences including Western philosophy and including Western philosophy and including Western philosophy and literature these traits had not endeared literature these traits had not endeared literature these traits had not endeared them to their officers and nocos in them to their officers and nocos in them to their officers and nocos in military training camps many young military training camps many young military training camps many young scholars had been singled out for scholars had been singled out for scholars had been singled out for special abuse including vicious beatings special abuse including vicious beatings special abuse including vicious beatings leaving them with feelings of contempt leaving them with feelings of contempt leaving them with feelings of contempt and Loathing for military Authority and and Loathing for military Authority and and Loathing for military Authority and for the tyrannical regime that held the for the tyrannical regime that held the for the tyrannical regime that held the nation's fate in its grip in Diaries and nation's fate in its grip in Diaries and nation's fate in its grip in Diaries and letters many of these future comicazi letters many of these future comicazi letters many of these future comicazi identified themselves as political identified themselves as political identified themselves as political liberals and Democrats some found much liberals and Democrats some found much liberals and Democrats some found much to admire in the American model of to admire in the American model of to admire in the American model of society and government others harbored society and government others harbored society and government others harbored radical utopian pacifist or even Marxist radical utopian pacifist or even Marxist radical utopian pacifist or even Marxist views end views end views end quote onuki tyy runs down the quote onuki tyy runs down the quote onuki tyy runs down the backgrounds of a lot of these people uh backgrounds of a lot of these people uh backgrounds of a lot of these people uh most of them speak multiple languages most of them speak multiple languages most of them speak multiple languages their reading list would shame an their reading list would shame an their reading list would shame an English English English Professor this is these are the very Professor this is these are the very Professor this is these are the very people you look at as the people who are people you look at as the people who are people you look at as the people who are going to have to rebuild Japan right if going to have to rebuild Japan right if going to have to rebuild Japan right if and instead they're being thrown into and instead they're being thrown into and instead they're being thrown into the meat the meat the meat grinder reading the accounts uh from grinder reading the accounts uh from grinder reading the accounts uh from these people's fascinating uh first of these people's fascinating uh first of these people's fascinating uh first of all they all seem to be Patriots even if

all they all seem to be Patriots even if all they all seem to be Patriots even if they disagree with the they disagree with the they disagree with the government some of them specifically are government some of them specifically are government some of them specifically are looking forward to helping uh the looking forward to helping uh the looking forward to helping uh the post-war Japan emerge a lot of them post-war Japan emerge a lot of them post-war Japan emerge a lot of them think about themselves as helping their think about themselves as helping their think about themselves as helping their families back home and trying to make a families back home and trying to make a families back home and trying to make a difference to see that they don't end up difference to see that they don't end up difference to see that they don't end up bombed or bombed or bombed or occupied some of the uh Pilots expressed occupied some of the uh Pilots expressed occupied some of the uh Pilots expressed all sorts of worry and remorse about the all sorts of worry and remorse about the all sorts of worry and remorse about the way their own Army were treating captive way their own Army were treating captive way their own Army were treating captive populations this is not what you populations this is not what you populations this is not what you expect I was thinking how very different expect I was thinking how very different expect I was thinking how very different this is right how you couldn't expect this is right how you couldn't expect this is right how you couldn't expect any other military major military in the any other military major military in the any other military major military in the second world war to do something like second world war to do something like second world war to do something like this but then I was doing some research this but then I was doing some research this but then I was doing some research and I came across I think it was like a and I came across I think it was like a and I came across I think it was like a letter to the editor or something like letter to the editor or something like letter to the editor or something like that by a person who identified that by a person who identified that by a person who identified themselves as a US Marine they didn't themselves as a US Marine they didn't themselves as a US Marine they didn't say in in what era all they had written say in in what era all they had written say in in what era all they had written though was if they had found themselves though was if they had found themselves though was if they had found themselves in a situation where their country was in a situation where their country was in a situation where their country was about to be occupied where their about to be occupied where their about to be occupied where their government or their military superiors government or their military superiors government or their military superiors said that they could reduce the chances said that they could reduce the chances said that they could reduce the chances of that happening if they'd be willing of that happening if they'd be willing of that happening if they'd be willing to sacrifice their lives you know flying to sacrifice their lives you know flying to sacrifice their lives you know flying their plane into an enemy ship this their plane into an enemy ship this their plane into an enemy ship this person who identified as a US Marine person who identified as a US Marine person who identified as a US Marine said he would be happy to do that and said he would be happy to do that and said he would be happy to do that and then I thought to myself the Japanese then I thought to myself the Japanese then I thought to myself the Japanese are just like everyone else only more so are just like everyone else only more so are just like everyone else only more so right I mean you can kind of see where right I mean you can kind of see where right I mean you can kind of see where all this hails from they just took it to all this hails from they just took it to all this hails from they just took it to levels that in most societies are levels that in most societies are levels that in most societies are theoretical the one part that really uh theoretical the one part that really uh theoretical the one part that really uh got to me the most um well there were got to me the most um well there were got to me the most um well there were several I mean there was the one about several I mean there was the one about several I mean there was the one about the Christian Pilots you forget that the Christian Pilots you forget that the Christian Pilots you forget that there's a sizable uh Christian there's a sizable uh Christian there's a sizable uh Christian population in Japan and you think of population in Japan and you think of population in Japan and you think of suicide as being prohibited by the

suicide as being prohibited by the suicide as being prohibited by the religion but uh there were Japanese religion but uh there were Japanese religion but uh there were Japanese kamakazi pilots who brought their Bibles kamakazi pilots who brought their Bibles kamakazi pilots who brought their Bibles into the cockpit with them taped the into the cockpit with them taped the into the cockpit with them taped the photo of their mother to their chest and photo of their mother to their chest and photo of their mother to their chest and when I was reading about this one person when I was reading about this one person when I was reading about this one person had said well isn't suicide frowned upon had said well isn't suicide frowned upon had said well isn't suicide frowned upon by the church and someone else explained by the church and someone else explained by the church and someone else explained that they just didn't see it as suicide that they just didn't see it as suicide that they just didn't see it as suicide they they looked at it as the war they they looked at it as the war they they looked at it as the war bringing death to them rather than they bringing death to them rather than they bringing death to them rather than they seeking it out some of these other seeking it out some of these other seeking it out some of these other people were making very rational people were making very rational people were making very rational calculations because as another calculations because as another calculations because as another historian pointed out they weren't historian pointed out they weren't historian pointed out they weren't making a choice between a suicide attack making a choice between a suicide attack making a choice between a suicide attack that killed them and a wonderful world that killed them and a wonderful world that killed them and a wonderful world of rainbows and unicorn corns right that of rainbows and unicorn corns right that of rainbows and unicorn corns right that wasn't their other option their other wasn't their other option their other wasn't their other option their other option was probably dying somewhere else option was probably dying somewhere else option was probably dying somewhere else maybe um anonymously your corpse left in maybe um anonymously your corpse left in maybe um anonymously your corpse left in a decaying jungle somewhere your family a decaying jungle somewhere your family a decaying jungle somewhere your family never known what even happens to you or never known what even happens to you or never known what even happens to you or you could die a hero and I think I read you could die a hero and I think I read you could die a hero and I think I read don't quote me on this that they got the don't quote me on this that they got the don't quote me on this that they got the comicazi pilots got an immediate comicazi pilots got an immediate comicazi pilots got an immediate increase in two ranks two military ranks increase in two ranks two military ranks increase in two ranks two military ranks and if that's the case well now it's and if that's the case well now it's and if that's the case well now it's even a financial decision right you can even a financial decision right you can even a financial decision right you can die in a jungle somewhere and your die in a jungle somewhere and your die in a jungle somewhere and your family's at one level of poverty or you family's at one level of poverty or you family's at one level of poverty or you could increase the amount of money that could increase the amount of money that could increase the amount of money that the state pays to you know grieving the state pays to you know grieving the state pays to you know grieving families and widows for upkeep and all families and widows for upkeep and all families and widows for upkeep and all that sort of stuff um if you get your that sort of stuff um if you get your that sort of stuff um if you get your rank I mean so you start to see rank I mean so you start to see rank I mean so you start to see actual maybe thinking going on in some actual maybe thinking going on in some actual maybe thinking going on in some of these decisions and then one other of these decisions and then one other of these decisions and then one other thing that just moved me was how the the thing that just moved me was how the the thing that just moved me was how the the they were supposed to be volunteers but they were supposed to be volunteers but they were supposed to be volunteers but many historians will use the word many historians will use the word many historians will use the word volunteer with quotation marks because volunteer with quotation marks because volunteer with quotation marks because the circumstances these 20 to 24 year the circumstances these 20 to 24 year the circumstances these 20 to 24 year old guys were put in were such that they old guys were put in were such that they old guys were put in were such that they were forced into moral quandaries and were forced into moral quandaries and were forced into moral quandaries and the only people that passed the moral

the only people that passed the moral the only people that passed the moral quandries and became the kamakazi pilots quandries and became the kamakazi pilots quandries and became the kamakazi pilots in other words the only ones that the in other words the only ones that the in other words the only ones that the strategy worked on were sort of the most strategy worked on were sort of the most strategy worked on were sort of the most moral amongst them for example a lot of moral amongst them for example a lot of moral amongst them for example a lot of these volunteer sessions were framed in these volunteer sessions were framed in these volunteer sessions were framed in a way that you understood that if you a way that you understood that if you a way that you understood that if you said no that you wouldn't volunteer that said no that you wouldn't volunteer that said no that you wouldn't volunteer that meant that your refusal was consigning meant that your refusal was consigning meant that your refusal was consigning some other person to death and a lot of some other person to death and a lot of some other person to death and a lot of these people couldn't handle these people couldn't handle these people couldn't handle that but the part that moved me the most that but the part that moved me the most that but the part that moved me the most because it's one of those things I because it's one of those things I because it's one of those things I wonder about I wondered in a show we did wonder about I wondered in a show we did wonder about I wondered in a show we did on executions once what goes through on executions once what goes through on executions once what goes through your mind the night before your own your mind the night before your own your mind the night before your own execution this is similar you wonder execution this is similar you wonder execution this is similar you wonder okay if you're a kamakazi pilot and you okay if you're a kamakazi pilot and you okay if you're a kamakazi pilot and you you know tomorrow's go time what's your you know tomorrow's go time what's your you know tomorrow's go time what's your last night like and apparently the last last night like and apparently the last last night like and apparently the last nights were not spent alone you spent it nights were not spent alone you spent it nights were not spent alone you spent it with the other people that were going to with the other people that were going to with the other people that were going to go with you and in um onuki tiy's book go with you and in um onuki tiy's book go with you and in um onuki tiy's book she quotes a guy who wrote all this in a she quotes a guy who wrote all this in a she quotes a guy who wrote all this in a letter decades later to somebody else letter decades later to somebody else letter decades later to somebody else whose job it was to cater to these whose job it was to cater to these whose job it was to cater to these pilots on their last night of life and pilots on their last night of life and pilots on their last night of life and he writes what that was like he writes what that was like he writes what that was like he is identified by the way as kasuga he is identified by the way as kasuga he is identified by the way as kasuga Teo and he wrote quote at the hall where Teo and he wrote quote at the hall where Teo and he wrote quote at the hall where their farewell parties were held the their farewell parties were held the their farewell parties were held the young student officers drank cold saki young student officers drank cold saki young student officers drank cold saki the night before their flight some the night before their flight some the night before their flight some gulped the saki in one swallow others gulped the saki in one swallow others gulped the saki in one swallow others kept gulping down a large amount the kept gulping down a large amount the kept gulping down a large amount the whole place degenerated into chaos some whole place degenerated into chaos some whole place degenerated into chaos some broke hanging light bulbs with their broke hanging light bulbs with their broke hanging light bulbs with their swords some lifted chairs to break the swords some lifted chairs to break the swords some lifted chairs to break the windows and tore white tablecloths a

windows and tore white tablecloths a windows and tore white tablecloths a mixture of military songs and curses mixture of military songs and curses mixture of military songs and curses filled the air while some shouted in filled the air while some shouted in filled the air while some shouted in Rage others cried aloud it was their Rage others cried aloud it was their Rage others cried aloud it was their last night of Life they thought of their last night of Life they thought of their last night of Life they thought of their parents their faces and images lovers parents their faces and images lovers parents their faces and images lovers faces and their smiles a sad farewell to faces and their smiles a sad farewell to faces and their smiles a sad farewell to their fiance all went through their their fiance all went through their their fiance all went through their minds like a running horse Lantern minds like a running horse Lantern minds like a running horse Lantern although they were supposedly ready to although they were supposedly ready to although they were supposedly ready to sacrifice their precious youth the next sacrifice their precious youth the next sacrifice their precious youth the next morning for Imperial Japan and for the morning for Imperial Japan and for the morning for Imperial Japan and for the emperor they were torn beyond what words emperor they were torn beyond what words emperor they were torn beyond what words can express some putting their heads on can express some putting their heads on can express some putting their heads on the table some writing their Wills some the table some writing their Wills some the table some writing their Wills some folding their hands in meditation some folding their hands in meditation some folding their hands in meditation some leaving the hall and some dancing in leaving the hall and some dancing in leaving the hall and some dancing in frenzy while breaking flower vases they frenzy while breaking flower vases they frenzy while breaking flower vases they all took off with the Rising Sun all took off with the Rising Sun all took off with the Rising Sun headband the next morning but this scene headband the next morning but this scene headband the next morning but this scene of utter desperation has hardly been of utter desperation has hardly been of utter desperation has hardly been reported I observed it with my own eyes reported I observed it with my own eyes reported I observed it with my own eyes as I took care of their daily life end as I took care of their daily life end as I took care of their daily life end quote now I don't know how quote now I don't know how quote now I don't know how representative that account is of the representative that account is of the representative that account is of the kamakazi last night kamakazi last night kamakazi last night experience there may be different experience there may be different experience there may be different experiences I would imagine there were experiences I would imagine there were experiences I would imagine there were and we should also point out that it was and we should also point out that it was and we should also point out that it was hardly just as Pilots that these young hardly just as Pilots that these young hardly just as Pilots that these young people who the government could count on people who the government could count on people who the government could count on to reliably kill themselves trying to to reliably kill themselves trying to to reliably kill themselves trying to kill the enemy it wasn't just airplanes kill the enemy it wasn't just airplanes kill the enemy it wasn't just airplanes I mean they had uh something known as a I mean they had uh something known as a I mean they had uh something known as a human human human torpedo they had bombs that they dropped torpedo they had bombs that they dropped torpedo they had bombs that they dropped I think they may be rocket Propel bombs

I think they may be rocket Propel bombs I think they may be rocket Propel bombs they drop from from aircraft that have a they drop from from aircraft that have a they drop from from aircraft that have a human pilot they have motorboats that human pilot they have motorboats that human pilot they have motorboats that they load with explosives that are they load with explosives that are they load with explosives that are designed to be driven into uh the enemy designed to be driven into uh the enemy designed to be driven into uh the enemy ships I mean there's a whole bunch of ships I mean there's a whole bunch of ships I mean there's a whole bunch of ingenious ways to utilize the ingenious ways to utilize the ingenious ways to utilize the willingness of your young men to kill willingness of your young men to kill willingness of your young men to kill themselves for the themselves for the themselves for the cause but it's this regardless of their cause but it's this regardless of their cause but it's this regardless of their positions on the issues and regardless positions on the issues and regardless positions on the issues and regardless of how much they might dislike the of how much they might dislike the of how much they might dislike the government or whatever it might be government or whatever it might be government or whatever it might be there's a strain of patriotism that runs there's a strain of patriotism that runs there's a strain of patriotism that runs through these people that's noticeable through these people that's noticeable through these people that's noticeable in all their writings I love of country in all their writings I love of country in all their writings I love of country that did not always mean a love of that did not always mean a love of that did not always mean a love of Emperor or a government or any of these Emperor or a government or any of these Emperor or a government or any of these things sometimes it was just the concept things sometimes it was just the concept things sometimes it was just the concept of Japan or what Japan might be in the of Japan or what Japan might be in the of Japan or what Japan might be in the future after the war uh but one kamakazi future after the war uh but one kamakazi future after the war uh but one kamakazi quoted in um omiko onuki Ty's book said quoted in um omiko onuki Ty's book said quoted in um omiko onuki Ty's book said that he found quote our love of country that he found quote our love of country that he found quote our love of country to be of frightening to be of frightening to be of frightening intensity end quote I think that's a intensity end quote I think that's a intensity end quote I think that's a great way to put frightening intensity great way to put frightening intensity great way to put frightening intensity what what happens when you take what what happens when you take what what happens when you take something that most countries have you something that most countries have you something that most countries have you know patriotism on the part of their know patriotism on the part of their know patriotism on the part of their people and turn it up to an above people and turn it up to an above people and turn it up to an above maximum level turn it up to 11 the fact that you would embark on 11 the fact that you would embark on this program though in 1944 late 1944 this program though in 1944 late 1944 this program though in 1944 late 1944 it's a sign of the desperate times if it's a sign of the desperate times if it's a sign of the desperate times if you needed to be reminded of that in you needed to be reminded of that in you needed to be reminded of that in late November 1944 the Japanese will be late November 1944 the Japanese will be late November 1944 the Japanese will be when the clock finally runs out on them when the clock finally runs out on them when the clock finally runs out on them uh on the Marianas Islands Airfield uh on the Marianas Islands Airfield uh on the Marianas Islands Airfield construction timeline because the CBS construction timeline because the CBS construction timeline because the CBS working on air fields and the recently

working on air fields and the recently working on air fields and the recently conquered islands in the Marianas gets conquered islands in the Marianas gets conquered islands in the Marianas gets them operational and b29 super them operational and b29 super them operational and b29 super fortresses the new bombers that are so fortresses the new bombers that are so fortresses the new bombers that are so new they've not been used in Europe new they've not been used in Europe new they've not been used in Europe although there are other reasons they although there are other reasons they although there are other reasons they were not used in Europe but not used in were not used in Europe but not used in were not used in Europe but not used in Europe uh they will land on these Europe uh they will land on these Europe uh they will land on these islands and the bombing attacks islands and the bombing attacks islands and the bombing attacks begin Japan has been bombed before the begin Japan has been bombed before the begin Japan has been bombed before the doitt raids were more of a pin prick for doitt raids were more of a pin prick for doitt raids were more of a pin prick for morale purposes but the uh b-29s were morale purposes but the uh b-29s were morale purposes but the uh b-29s were taking off from areas around the Indo taking off from areas around the Indo taking off from areas around the Indo China theater but just barely able to China theater but just barely able to China theater but just barely able to reach the edge of Japanese soil the reach the edge of Japanese soil the reach the edge of Japanese soil the raids were not enormous uh in late raids were not enormous uh in late raids were not enormous uh in late November the attacks begin and the November the attacks begin and the November the attacks begin and the Japanese will find themselves bombed at Japanese will find themselves bombed at Japanese will find themselves bombed at times in the capital uh by more than a times in the capital uh by more than a times in the capital uh by more than a hundred of these big planes at a hundred of these big planes at a hundred of these big planes at a time these are not known to be time these are not known to be time these are not known to be particularly uh effective attacks going particularly uh effective attacks going particularly uh effective attacks going after airplane facilities and things after airplane facilities and things after airplane facilities and things like that sometimes they get lucky but like that sometimes they get lucky but like that sometimes they get lucky but most of the time uh the bombing is most of the time uh the bombing is most of the time uh the bombing is inaccurate but here's here's the thing inaccurate but here's here's the thing inaccurate but here's here's the thing for from a civilian standpoint let's for from a civilian standpoint let's for from a civilian standpoint let's just acknowledge something I don't think just acknowledge something I don't think just acknowledge something I don't think any of us well there's probably some of any of us well there's probably some of any of us well there's probably some of us actually have been under a bombing us actually have been under a bombing us actually have been under a bombing attack before and these kind of bombing attack before and these kind of bombing attack before and these kind of bombing attacks are in some ways scarier than attacks are in some ways scarier than attacks are in some ways scarier than ones you might face today although it ones you might face today although it ones you might face today although it depends on whether you're the Target or depends on whether you're the Target or depends on whether you're the Target or not because these bombing attacks have a not because these bombing attacks have a not because these bombing attacks have a lot more planes and a lot less accuracy lot more planes and a lot less accuracy lot more planes and a lot less accuracy and part of the reason you have so many and part of the reason you have so many and part of the reason you have so many more planes is because you are so much more planes is because you are so much more planes is because you are so much less accurate you need lots of planes less accurate you need lots of planes less accurate you need lots of planes and lots of Bombs over a wide area to and lots of Bombs over a wide area to and lots of Bombs over a wide area to even hope to hit your target even hope to hit your target even hope to hit your target which they don't often for all sorts of

which they don't often for all sorts of which they don't often for all sorts of reasons the jet stream and a bunch of reasons the jet stream and a bunch of reasons the jet stream and a bunch of other ones included but that doesn't other ones included but that doesn't other ones included but that doesn't lessen the fact that if you're a lessen the fact that if you're a lessen the fact that if you're a Japanese civilian maybe a Japanese Japanese civilian maybe a Japanese Japanese civilian maybe a Japanese civilian who's had heavily filtered news civilian who's had heavily filtered news civilian who's had heavily filtered news reports about how the war is going if reports about how the war is going if reports about how the war is going if you have Bombs all of a sudden falling you have Bombs all of a sudden falling you have Bombs all of a sudden falling on your capital city and most of the on your capital city and most of the on your capital city and most of the planes that drop those bombs are getting planes that drop those bombs are getting planes that drop those bombs are getting away uh that puts the credibility of the away uh that puts the credibility of the away uh that puts the credibility of the government's accounts on how the war is government's accounts on how the war is government's accounts on how the war is going in rather Stark relief doesn't it going in rather Stark relief doesn't it going in rather Stark relief doesn't it that having been said in terms of that having been said in terms of that having been said in terms of concrete results The Early Air War here concrete results The Early Air War here concrete results The Early Air War here from the Mariana the bombing of Japan from the Mariana the bombing of Japan from the Mariana the bombing of Japan somewhat underwhelming in terms of somewhat underwhelming in terms of somewhat underwhelming in terms of results the US idea about Precision results the US idea about Precision results the US idea about Precision bombing seems to founder on the rocks of bombing seems to founder on the rocks of bombing seems to founder on the rocks of Japan's cloudy weather and high Japan's cloudy weather and high Japan's cloudy weather and high winds there's all sorts of reasons that winds there's all sorts of reasons that winds there's all sorts of reasons that that might be an issue and in addition that might be an issue and in addition that might be an issue and in addition to that they're losing a decent number to that they're losing a decent number to that they're losing a decent number of planes of planes of planes so early on a lot of pressure on the air so early on a lot of pressure on the air so early on a lot of pressure on the air service to be more effective because service to be more effective because service to be more effective because things are heating up as you know we things are heating up as you know we things are heating up as you know we transition from the year 1944 to that transition from the year 1944 to that transition from the year 1944 to that terrible year half year really of terrible year half year really of terrible year half year really of 1945 the monthly totals of which we LED 1945 the monthly totals of which we LED 1945 the monthly totals of which we LED this segment off with if you recall this segment off with if you recall this segment off with if you recall because they were so awful um a lot of because they were so awful um a lot of because they were so awful um a lot of pressure on the air service to figure pressure on the air service to figure pressure on the air service to figure out a way to increase the pressure on out a way to increase the pressure on out a way to increase the pressure on the Japanese to put an end to something the Japanese to put an end to something the Japanese to put an end to something that's already over they just haven't that's already over they just haven't that's already over they just haven't admitted it yet yet and the problem here admitted it yet yet and the problem here admitted it yet yet and the problem here is that even though it's almost over

is that even though it's almost over is that even though it's almost over it's getting worse and this defies it's getting worse and this defies it's getting worse and this defies what's supposed to happen when you have what's supposed to happen when you have what's supposed to happen when you have an enemy who's for all intents and an enemy who's for all intents and an enemy who's for all intents and purposes beaten who's uh devoid of the purposes beaten who's uh devoid of the purposes beaten who's uh devoid of the natural resources they need whose troops natural resources they need whose troops natural resources they need whose troops I mean starving troops I mean all all I mean starving troops I mean all all I mean starving troops I mean all all over the place you look the Japanese over the place you look the Japanese over the place you look the Japanese just look like they're just been just look like they're just been just look like they're just been battered from Pillar To Post so this battered from Pillar To Post so this battered from Pillar To Post so this should be getting easier for the Allies should be getting easier for the Allies should be getting easier for the Allies fighting them but it's fighting them but it's fighting them but it's not the casualties are getting getting not the casualties are getting getting not the casualties are getting getting worse the civilian casualties are worse the civilian casualties are worse the civilian casualties are starting to absolutely go through the starting to absolutely go through the starting to absolutely go through the roof and if we wanted to think of what's roof and if we wanted to think of what's roof and if we wanted to think of what's about to happen here in 1945 it's worth about to happen here in 1945 it's worth about to happen here in 1945 it's worth thinking about it as a whole instead of thinking about it as a whole instead of thinking about it as a whole instead of this happened then this happened then this happened then this happened then this happened then this happened then this happened because if you're waking this happened because if you're waking this happened because if you're waking up reading your morning paper in the up reading your morning paper in the up reading your morning paper in the middle of Iowa one day and you're trying middle of Iowa one day and you're trying middle of Iowa one day and you're trying to get a handle on the world situation to get a handle on the world situation to get a handle on the world situation you're going to have updates on the you're going to have updates on the you're going to have updates on the front page from each of these places front page from each of these places front page from each of these places either something about to begin and either something about to begin and either something about to begin and preparations going on or fighting preparations going on or fighting preparations going on or fighting continuing in this other spot or mopping continuing in this other spot or mopping continuing in this other spot or mopping up operations in this other place up operations in this other place up operations in this other place there's there's a bunch of things that there's there's a bunch of things that there's there's a bunch of things that are and not only happening at the same are and not only happening at the same are and not only happening at the same time but drawing and competing for time but drawing and competing for time but drawing and competing for resources with each other there there resources with each other there there resources with each other there there will never be enough us Fleet Assets in will never be enough us Fleet Assets in will never be enough us Fleet Assets in the area MacArthur will be wanting them the area MacArthur will be wanting them the area MacArthur will be wanting them just where they be wanting them in the just where they be wanting them in the just where they be wanting them in the Central Pacific I mean so all of this is Central Pacific I mean so all of this is Central Pacific I mean so all of this is happening at the same time and if you're happening at the same time and if you're happening at the same time and if you're in the Japanese High command you are in the Japanese High command you are in the Japanese High command you are being battered with incident after being battered with incident after being battered with incident after incident after incident and it seems to incident after incident and it seems to incident after incident and it seems to be having no effect on the main be having no effect on the main be having no effect on the main leadership's opinion on whether or not leadership's opinion on whether or not leadership's opinion on whether or not the warship kenu which is surprising to the warship kenu which is surprising to the warship kenu which is surprising to say the say the say the least start with MacArthur at the

least start with MacArthur at the least start with MacArthur at the beginning of 1945 MacArthur makes the beginning of 1945 MacArthur makes the beginning of 1945 MacArthur makes the leap to the island of lison which is leap to the island of lison which is leap to the island of lison which is where Manila is in the where Manila is in the where Manila is in the Philippines um MacArthur is moving Philippines um MacArthur is moving Philippines um MacArthur is moving quickly because he's convinced and he quickly because he's convinced and he quickly because he's convinced and he appears to be right I think that there appears to be right I think that there appears to be right I think that there are P camps on uh the Philippines that are P camps on uh the Philippines that are P camps on uh the Philippines that have had American and Filipino troops have had American and Filipino troops have had American and Filipino troops there since MacArthur left years before there since MacArthur left years before there since MacArthur left years before who are waiting for him to come back and who are waiting for him to come back and who are waiting for him to come back and he wants to rescue them before the he wants to rescue them before the he wants to rescue them before the Japanese kill their prisoners which they Japanese kill their prisoners which they Japanese kill their prisoners which they they are doing once again with alarming they are doing once again with alarming they are doing once again with alarming frequency the situation in Manila will frequency the situation in Manila will frequency the situation in Manila will become an unbelievable nightmare the become an unbelievable nightmare the become an unbelievable nightmare the Japanese General who is Awesome by the Japanese General who is Awesome by the Japanese General who is Awesome by the way MacArthur is really up against a way MacArthur is really up against a way MacArthur is really up against a good guy but he decides not to defend good guy but he decides not to defend good guy but he decides not to defend the city but there's a naval Commander the city but there's a naval Commander the city but there's a naval Commander there who's got what we would call if there who's got what we would call if there who's got what we would call if they were United States Marines they'd they were United States Marines they'd they were United States Marines they'd be Marines Naval infantry there be Marines Naval infantry there be Marines Naval infantry there something like 15,000 of them and he something like 15,000 of them and he something like 15,000 of them and he says well I'm staying and he defends the says well I'm staying and he defends the says well I'm staying and he defends the old city which is you know a a sort of a old city which is you know a a sort of a old city which is you know a a sort of a colonial concrete stone I mean it's a colonial concrete stone I mean it's a colonial concrete stone I mean it's a it's a rather impregnable place and uh it's a rather impregnable place and uh it's a rather impregnable place and uh he gets nailed down in there and we'll he gets nailed down in there and we'll he gets nailed down in there and we'll have the US fighting house to house in have the US fighting house to house in have the US fighting house to house in urban combat of the sort they have not urban combat of the sort they have not urban combat of the sort they have not seen in this war at all and will not see seen in this war at all and will not see seen in this war at all and will not see again it's probably the sort of fighting again it's probably the sort of fighting again it's probably the sort of fighting they could have expected though had they they could have expected though had they they could have expected though had they gone into Japan in 1946 and invaded the gone into Japan in 1946 and invaded the gone into Japan in 1946 and invaded the home Islands forget about the uh military Islands forget about the uh military side of this for a minute because as side of this for a minute because as side of this for a minute because as expected right the US will win here the expected right the US will win here the expected right the US will win here the Japanese will die almost to the last Japanese will die almost to the last Japanese will die almost to the last man and something like a 100,000

man and something like a 100,000 man and something like a 100,000 Filipino civilians will Filipino civilians will Filipino civilians will die when I first saw that number I knew die when I first saw that number I knew die when I first saw that number I knew that knew it was large I thought they that knew it was large I thought they that knew it was large I thought they were talking about maybe all the were talking about maybe all the were talking about maybe all the civilians that died in the Philippines civilians that died in the Philippines civilians that died in the Philippines during this time period And I actually during this time period And I actually during this time period And I actually have seen an account or two that sort of have seen an account or two that sort of have seen an account or two that sort of insinuates that but most of them say in insinuates that but most of them say in insinuates that but most of them say in this fighting over the the the the city this fighting over the the the the city this fighting over the the the the city of Manila 100,000 Philippine civilians of Manila 100,000 Philippine civilians of Manila 100,000 Philippine civilians ladies and gentlemen um that's in a ladies and gentlemen um that's in a ladies and gentlemen um that's in a month and the stories are amongst some month and the stories are amongst some month and the stories are amongst some of the worst I've ever encountered of the worst I've ever encountered of the worst I've ever encountered there's one that I it's funny you know I there's one that I it's funny you know I there's one that I it's funny you know I mean I know we're all a little weird if mean I know we're all a little weird if mean I know we're all a little weird if we listen to this maybe I don't know but we listen to this maybe I don't know but we listen to this maybe I don't know but I have certain eyewitness stories that I have certain eyewitness stories that I have certain eyewitness stories that stay with me and they stay with me in stay with me and they stay with me in stay with me and they stay with me in part because regularly I have to go back part because regularly I have to go back part because regularly I have to go back and reread them and I have no idea why and reread them and I have no idea why and reread them and I have no idea why there's one story and I'll have to do a there's one story and I'll have to do a there's one story and I'll have to do a show on this someday if you know the the show on this someday if you know the the show on this someday if you know the the mental health will allow me to get mental health will allow me to get mental health will allow me to get through something like that but there's through something like that but there's through something like that but there's a story involving the einot group and a story involving the einot group and a story involving the einot group and and an eyewitness who was watching um and an eyewitness who was watching um and an eyewitness who was watching um lots and lots and lots of Jewish lots and lots and lots of Jewish lots and lots and lots of Jewish civilians being lined up and killed over civilians being lined up and killed over civilians being lined up and killed over and over again and it involved a young and over again and it involved a young and over again and it involved a young woman and as she passes by the woman and as she passes by the woman and as she passes by the eyewitness on the way to her death she eyewitness on the way to her death she eyewitness on the way to her death she just says to him while pointing to just says to him while pointing to just says to him while pointing to herself 24 meaning I'm 24 years old that herself 24 meaning I'm 24 years old that herself 24 meaning I'm 24 years old that one kills me I looked it up last month one kills me I looked it up last month one kills me I looked it up last month again but there are some scenes from the again but there are some scenes from the again but there are some scenes from the Philippines that just as a listen as a Philippines that just as a listen as a Philippines that just as a listen as a human being I was going to say say as a human being I was going to say say as a human being I was going to say say as a father but let's not patronize everyone father but let's not patronize everyone father but let's not patronize everyone else there are certain experiences one else there are certain experiences one else there are certain experiences one can imagine living through and then um can imagine living through and then um can imagine living through and then um ones that one can't imagine going on

ones that one can't imagine going on ones that one can't imagine going on afterwards and the best way to describe afterwards and the best way to describe afterwards and the best way to describe and and I don't mean this for um I'm not and and I don't mean this for um I'm not and and I don't mean this for um I'm not trying to to be uh gratuitous here it's trying to to be uh gratuitous here it's trying to to be uh gratuitous here it's important to understand what's going on important to understand what's going on important to understand what's going on though and when we use that euphemism of though and when we use that euphemism of though and when we use that euphemism of the human being lawnmower what that the human being lawnmower what that the human being lawnmower what that means in reality because this is as we means in reality because this is as we means in reality because this is as we said something that is remorseless it's said something that is remorseless it's said something that is remorseless it's month to month it's uh it's a reliable month to month it's uh it's a reliable month to month it's uh it's a reliable tally of people and this is what those tally of people and this is what those tally of people and this is what those statistics boil down to on the ground in statistics boil down to on the ground in statistics boil down to on the ground in the book Rampage John M Scott tells the the book Rampage John M Scott tells the the book Rampage John M Scott tells the story of well I guess ultimately of a story of well I guess ultimately of a story of well I guess ultimately of a family who are rounded up by the family who are rounded up by the family who are rounded up by the Japanese right as their troops are Japanese right as their troops are Japanese right as their troops are starting to torch the city of Manila and starting to torch the city of Manila and starting to torch the city of Manila and this is the sort of stuff MacArthur was this is the sort of stuff MacArthur was this is the sort of stuff MacArthur was worried about when he was worried about worried about when he was worried about worried about when he was worried about the PS having something happen to them the PS having something happen to them the PS having something happen to them so Scott's piece starts with these men so Scott's piece starts with these men so Scott's piece starts with these men being rounded up um taken to this school being rounded up um taken to this school being rounded up um taken to this school and then eventually moved out to this and then eventually moved out to this and then eventually moved out to this canal at night and they have their hands canal at night and they have their hands canal at night and they have their hands tied behind their back and the Japanese tied behind their back and the Japanese tied behind their back and the Japanese has a has a has a flashlight and they start cutting off flashlight and they start cutting off flashlight and they start cutting off the heads of the people in this group the heads of the people in this group the heads of the people in this group that's been taken to the canal by that's been taken to the canal by that's been taken to the canal by flashlight and then when it is the turn flashlight and then when it is the turn flashlight and then when it is the turn of this gentleman that in Scott's book of this gentleman that in Scott's book of this gentleman that in Scott's book um is identified as 25 year-old Ricardo um is identified as 25 year-old Ricardo um is identified as 25 year-old Ricardo sanan when they get to him they chop his sanan when they get to him they chop his sanan when they get to him they chop his head off but not quite head off but not quite head off but not quite and they have a picture of him I believe and they have a picture of him I believe and they have a picture of him I believe it's him in the book showing you um him it's him in the book showing you um him it's him in the book showing you um him years later and he clearly looks like years later and he clearly looks like years later and he clearly looks like somebody whose head was almost chopped

somebody whose head was almost chopped somebody whose head was almost chopped off that's what it looks like after it off that's what it looks like after it off that's what it looks like after it heals but he plays dead and he lays heals but he plays dead and he lays heals but he plays dead and he lays there and you're thinking to yourself as there and you're thinking to yourself as there and you're thinking to yourself as he's laying around a lot of other he's laying around a lot of other he's laying around a lot of other decapitated people who were with him decapitated people who were with him decapitated people who were with him alive just one second ago you're alive just one second ago you're alive just one second ago you're thinking okay this is the kind of thinking okay this is the kind of thinking okay this is the kind of experience that will ruin the rest of experience that will ruin the rest of experience that will ruin the rest of your life don't you but this is where your life don't you but this is where your life don't you but this is where his experience begins to get horrific his experience begins to get horrific his experience begins to get horrific and like I said this is not meant to be and like I said this is not meant to be and like I said this is not meant to be gratuitous this is meant to put some gratuitous this is meant to put some gratuitous this is meant to put some context on these enormous numbers like a context on these enormous numbers like a context on these enormous numbers like a 100,000 civilians die in a month while 100,000 civilians die in a month while 100,000 civilians die in a month while manila's being fought manila's being fought manila's being fought over and I do not count these sorts of over and I do not count these sorts of over and I do not count these sorts of incidents as collateral damage at incidents as collateral damage at incidents as collateral damage at all this is all this is all this is intentional on someone's part at some intentional on someone's part at some intentional on someone's part at some level of the command level of the command level of the command structure so Scott talks about structure so Scott talks about structure so Scott talks about everything that this poor guy goes everything that this poor guy goes everything that this poor guy goes through personally and then says quote through personally and then says quote through personally and then says quote but the knight's Terror had only begun but the knight's Terror had only begun but the knight's Terror had only begun the Japanese returned to the same spot the Japanese returned to the same spot the Japanese returned to the same spot with a second group of captives on his with a second group of captives on his with a second group of captives on his belly in the brush Ricardo sanan counted belly in the brush Ricardo sanan counted belly in the brush Ricardo sanan counted 19 women and 27 children among them he 19 women and 27 children among them he 19 women and 27 children among them he saw his 25-year-old wife Virginia and saw his 25-year-old wife Virginia and saw his 25-year-old wife Virginia and the couple's three children four months the couple's three children four months the couple's three children four months pregnant at the time Virginia held the pregnant at the time Virginia held the pregnant at the time Virginia held the couple's youngest child in her arms couple's youngest child in her arms couple's youngest child in her arms one-year-old Jose the Japanese had tied one-year-old Jose the Japanese had tied one-year-old Jose the Japanese had tied the adults together with a long strand the adults together with a long strand the adults together with a long strand of rope looped around the upper left arm of rope looped around the upper left arm of rope looped around the upper left arm of each woman guards herded the woman of each woman guards herded the woman of each woman guards herded the woman into a circle around the children the into a circle around the children the into a circle around the children the Japanese then formed a perimeter around

Japanese then formed a perimeter around Japanese then formed a perimeter around them to San Juan's horror Scott writes them to San Juan's horror Scott writes them to San Juan's horror Scott writes the soldiers began to Bonet the children the soldiers began to Bonet the children the soldiers began to Bonet the children and even the infants including and even the infants including and even the infants including two-month-old Celia Fardo wrapped in a two-month-old Celia Fardo wrapped in a two-month-old Celia Fardo wrapped in a gray flannel sleepsuit now quoting the gray flannel sleepsuit now quoting the gray flannel sleepsuit now quoting the eyewitness quote some of the babies were eyewitness quote some of the babies were eyewitness quote some of the babies were grabbed from the arms of their mothers grabbed from the arms of their mothers grabbed from the arms of their mothers and were held by their two hands hands and were held by their two hands hands and were held by their two hands hands in midair by one of the Japanese in midair by one of the Japanese in midair by one of the Japanese soldiers he later told soldiers he later told soldiers he later told investigators at that instant he says investigators at that instant he says investigators at that instant he says the Executioner would stab them in that the Executioner would stab them in that the Executioner would stab them in that position Scott continues quote the origy position Scott continues quote the origy position Scott continues quote the origy of violence escalated hidden in the dark of violence escalated hidden in the dark of violence escalated hidden in the dark Thicket barely 8 ft away San Juan Thicket barely 8 ft away San Juan Thicket barely 8 ft away San Juan watched a soldier plunge his bayonet watched a soldier plunge his bayonet watched a soldier plunge his bayonet into the chest of his 5-year-old son into the chest of his 5-year-old son into the chest of his 5-year-old son cresencio he heard the boy cry out cresencio he heard the boy cry out cresencio he heard the boy cry out before he collapsed and died the same before he collapsed and died the same before he collapsed and died the same Soldier then snatched up his in son Jose Soldier then snatched up his in son Jose Soldier then snatched up his in son Jose that Baby of Mine San Juan recalls was that Baby of Mine San Juan recalls was that Baby of Mine San Juan recalls was thrown into the air and then caught with thrown into the air and then caught with thrown into the air and then caught with the point of a bayonet those were his the point of a bayonet those were his the point of a bayonet those were his words the author continues quote words the author continues quote words the author continues quote soldiers likewise killed his soldiers likewise killed his soldiers likewise killed his three-year-old daughter corazone her three-year-old daughter corazone her three-year-old daughter corazone her name Spanish for heart but San Juan did name Spanish for heart but San Juan did name Spanish for heart but San Juan did not see it that was the only Mercy he not see it that was the only Mercy he not see it that was the only Mercy he experienced that night with the children experienced that night with the children experienced that night with the children littered on the ground dead the Japanese littered on the ground dead the Japanese littered on the ground dead the Japanese pounced on the mothers with blood soaked pounced on the mothers with blood soaked pounced on the mothers with blood soaked bayonets the same soldier who had tried bayonets the same soldier who had tried bayonets the same soldier who had tried to cut off his head ran his blade to cut off his head ran his blade to cut off his head ran his blade through the belly of San Juan's pregnant through the belly of San Juan's pregnant through the belly of San Juan's pregnant wife end wife end wife end quote so if one death is a quote so if one death is a quote so if one death is a tragedy and a million deaths a

tragedy and a million deaths a tragedy and a million deaths a statistic stories like that put a little statistic stories like that put a little statistic stories like that put a little bit more flashback on the bones of who bit more flashback on the bones of who bit more flashback on the bones of who these numbers these numbers these numbers were and while I wish these were were and while I wish these were were and while I wish these were completely isolated completely isolated completely isolated examples they're all too common both in examples they're all too common both in examples they're all too common both in your history books and amongst the your history books and amongst the your history books and amongst the Japanese and here's the thing is if we Japanese and here's the thing is if we Japanese and here's the thing is if we were talking about something that were talking about something that were talking about something that happened in the biblical era and you happened in the biblical era and you happened in the biblical era and you said that one Army treated the civilians said that one Army treated the civilians said that one Army treated the civilians in areas that had held captive or other in areas that had held captive or other in areas that had held captive or other soldiers that fell into its hands this soldiers that fell into its hands this soldiers that fell into its hands this way you you'd hardly blink but it's very way you you'd hardly blink but it's very way you you'd hardly blink but it's very unusual behavior in the mid 20th century unusual behavior in the mid 20th century unusual behavior in the mid 20th century by a major by a major by a major power and while you can certainly find power and while you can certainly find power and while you can certainly find examples that are easily as off the examples that are easily as off the examples that are easily as off the chart chart chart uh as this with say the Germans uh as this with say the Germans uh as this with say the Germans certainly but I mean even the Red Army certainly but I mean even the Red Army certainly but I mean even the Red Army maybe even the Allies in certain maybe even the Allies in certain maybe even the Allies in certain circumstances the non-soviet Allies but circumstances the non-soviet Allies but circumstances the non-soviet Allies but those are just that they're those are just that they're those are just that they're outliers the Japanese do this over and outliers the Japanese do this over and outliers the Japanese do this over and over and over again in Scott's book he over and over again in Scott's book he over and over again in Scott's book he has a section you know in the index and has a section you know in the index and has a section you know in the index and Under The Heading of massacres and Under The Heading of massacres and Under The Heading of massacres and atrocities it goes down a whole page in atrocities it goes down a whole page in atrocities it goes down a whole page in small small small print and this is just mostly in the print and this is just mostly in the print and this is just mostly in the Philippines it's things like behind the Philippines it's things like behind the Philippines it's things like behind the Shell service station there was a Shell service station there was a Shell service station there was a massacre behind the Shell service massacre behind the Shell service massacre behind the Shell service station against civilians suspected of station against civilians suspected of station against civilians suspected of Guerilla Guerilla Guerilla ties de laal Massacre Fort Santiago ties de laal Massacre Fort Santiago ties de laal Massacre Fort Santiago sealed dungeon Mass starvation German

sealed dungeon Mass starvation German sealed dungeon Mass starvation German club Massacre Philippine General club Massacre Philippine General club Massacre Philippine General Hospital killing of men PS on Palawan Hospital killing of men PS on Palawan Hospital killing of men PS on Palawan Red Cross Massacre Santa Domingo Church Red Cross Massacre Santa Domingo Church Red Cross Massacre Santa Domingo Church Massacre over and over and over Massacre over and over and over Massacre over and over and over again it's fascinating to wonder about again it's fascinating to wonder about again it's fascinating to wonder about this isn't it there's a book called this isn't it there's a book called this isn't it there's a book called embracing defeat that is about Japan's embracing defeat that is about Japan's embracing defeat that is about Japan's coming to grips with losing the war coming to grips with losing the war coming to grips with losing the war right right right afterwards 46 47 afterwards 46 47 afterwards 46 47 1948 and one of the things I found 1948 and one of the things I found 1948 and one of the things I found interesting when reading it was that interesting when reading it was that interesting when reading it was that there was a big backlash amongst the there was a big backlash amongst the there was a big backlash amongst the civilians to returning soldiers when civilians to returning soldiers when civilians to returning soldiers when these sorts of stories of this kind of these sorts of stories of this kind of these sorts of stories of this kind of behavior filtered down to the public behavior filtered down to the public behavior filtered down to the public after the war obviously they were not after the war obviously they were not after the war obviously they were not getting this during the war and there getting this during the war and there getting this during the war and there was a backlash that one might compare to was a backlash that one might compare to was a backlash that one might compare to the way some Vietnam veterans were the way some Vietnam veterans were the way some Vietnam veterans were treated over the whole you know taunting treated over the whole you know taunting treated over the whole you know taunting at the airport when they would arrive at the airport when they would arrive at the airport when they would arrive back in country for being baby killers back in country for being baby killers back in country for being baby killers that was the epithet yelled at that was the epithet yelled at that was the epithet yelled at them MacArthur will find himself them MacArthur will find himself them MacArthur will find himself occupied in liberating the occupied in liberating the occupied in liberating the Philippines for the rest of the war now Philippines for the rest of the war now Philippines for the rest of the war now he will declare at certain times that he will declare at certain times that he will declare at certain times that the fighting has ceased in order to the fighting has ceased in order to the fighting has ceased in order to basically say I have liberated the basically say I have liberated the basically say I have liberated the Philippines but when the war actually Philippines but when the war actually Philippines but when the war actually ends there's tens of thousands I think ends there's tens of thousands I think ends there's tens of thousands I think it's like 50,000 men still under the it's like 50,000 men still under the it's like 50,000 men still under the same Japanese General who have to give same Japanese General who have to give same Japanese General who have to give up their arms and surrender so I would up their arms and surrender so I would up their arms and surrender so I would say that the island wasn't say that the island wasn't say that the island wasn't pacified but MacArthur will continually pacified but MacArthur will continually pacified but MacArthur will continually be fighting there in hard slogging for be fighting there in hard slogging for be fighting there in hard slogging for the rest of the war as I said so while the rest of the war as I said so while the rest of the war as I said so while that's going on you now have the

that's going on you now have the that's going on you now have the determination to take the island of iima determination to take the island of iima determination to take the island of iima and right afterwards okanawa these and right afterwards okanawa these and right afterwards okanawa these places if you look in the map are are places if you look in the map are are places if you look in the map are are the Japanese um in hirohito's war the Japanese um in hirohito's war the Japanese um in hirohito's war Herbert P Bick says that the emperor Herbert P Bick says that the emperor Herbert P Bick says that the emperor looked at those areas as a moat and the looked at those areas as a moat and the looked at those areas as a moat and the idea of course of the moat is to absorb idea of course of the moat is to absorb idea of course of the moat is to absorb the force of your enemy charge and the force of your enemy charge and the force of your enemy charge and weaken them before they get to the weaken them before they get to the weaken them before they get to the castle walls and okanawa is like a castle walls and okanawa is like a castle walls and okanawa is like a southern area of the moat and iima is southern area of the moat and iima is southern area of the moat and iima is like a Eastern area of the like a Eastern area of the like a Eastern area of the moat ewo is a tiny little place a little moat ewo is a tiny little place a little moat ewo is a tiny little place a little volcanic island eight square miles it's volcanic island eight square miles it's volcanic island eight square miles it's a nothing little place but it can hold a a nothing little place but it can hold a a nothing little place but it can hold a couple of airfields this is as we've couple of airfields this is as we've couple of airfields this is as we've said in this whole War airfields I mean said in this whole War airfields I mean said in this whole War airfields I mean a lot of this fighting is over airfields a lot of this fighting is over airfields a lot of this fighting is over airfields having or not having an Airfield can having or not having an Airfield can having or not having an Airfield can make a huge difference they're the make a huge difference they're the make a huge difference they're the ultimate strategic location in the ultimate strategic location in the ultimate strategic location in the middle of the vast distances of the middle of the vast distances of the middle of the vast distances of the Pacific so uh the Americans want to take Pacific so uh the Americans want to take Pacific so uh the Americans want to take EO and the Japanese are once again ready EO and the Japanese are once again ready EO and the Japanese are once again ready for them so what happened in pelo begins for them so what happened in pelo begins for them so what happened in pelo begins to be the new trend uh to have these to be the new trend uh to have these to be the new trend uh to have these places be built up and they've had more places be built up and they've had more places be built up and they've had more time right the outlying islands they time right the outlying islands they time right the outlying islands they hadn't had as much time or ability to hadn't had as much time or ability to hadn't had as much time or ability to really get the defenses the way they really get the defenses the way they really get the defenses the way they hoped to get them at pelu you had the hoped to get them at pelu you had the hoped to get them at pelu you had the guns peeking out from behind steel doors guns peeking out from behind steel doors guns peeking out from behind steel doors EO takes it the next step higher than EO takes it the next step higher than EO takes it the next step higher than that one of the most fortified uh places that one of the most fortified uh places that one of the most fortified uh places in the second world war in terms of in the second world war in terms of in the second world war in terms of places that any of the Allies had to places that any of the Allies had to places that any of the Allies had to overcome and iojima is one of the most

overcome and iojima is one of the most overcome and iojima is one of the most if not the most famous battle that ever if not the most famous battle that ever if not the most famous battle that ever involved the US involved the US involved the US Marines but the reason for that is Marines but the reason for that is Marines but the reason for that is because it was so nightmarish that's how because it was so nightmarish that's how because it was so nightmarish that's how you make a you make a you make a reputation as you go through through reputation as you go through through reputation as you go through through something that is like walking through something that is like walking through something that is like walking through hell and when you read the accounts of hell and when you read the accounts of hell and when you read the accounts of the survivors and the veterans from eil the survivors and the veterans from eil the survivors and the veterans from eil it's it's interesting how often and many it's it's interesting how often and many it's it's interesting how often and many of these people had been on other Island of these people had been on other Island of these people had been on other Island fights before and so had something to fights before and so had something to fights before and so had something to compare it to how often they would say I compare it to how often they would say I compare it to how often they would say I can't even describe it to you it was can't even describe it to you it was can't even describe it to you it was like nothing I'd ever like nothing I'd ever like nothing I'd ever seen there's a few of these in U Patrick seen there's a few of these in U Patrick seen there's a few of these in U Patrick K O'Donnell's fine book into the Rising K O'Donnell's fine book into the Rising K O'Donnell's fine book into the Rising Sun where he interviews veterans I'm Sun where he interviews veterans I'm Sun where he interviews veterans I'm Mark a couple of Mark a couple of Mark a couple of them Mike vinich from the fifth Marine them Mike vinich from the fifth Marine them Mike vinich from the fifth Marine Division said quote I can't hardly even Division said quote I can't hardly even Division said quote I can't hardly even describe it to you the misery and the describe it to you the misery and the describe it to you the misery and the difference between this and all the difference between this and all the difference between this and all the other Island fighting I'd experienced other Island fighting I'd experienced other Island fighting I'd experienced coming to EO was a different kind of coming to EO was a different kind of coming to EO was a different kind of fight end fight end fight end quote uh he has the remembrances of the quote uh he has the remembrances of the quote uh he has the remembrances of the last surviving person who was on the last surviving person who was on the last surviving person who was on the flag raising team on Mount cachi a flag raising team on Mount cachi a flag raising team on Mount cachi a famous incident famous incident famous incident uh won all sorts of awards maybe the uh won all sorts of awards maybe the uh won all sorts of awards maybe the most famous photograph taken in the most famous photograph taken in the most famous photograph taken in the Pacific War of these people on Mount Pacific War of these people on Mount Pacific War of these people on Mount cachi uh Charles Lindberg and he said of cachi uh Charles Lindberg and he said of cachi uh Charles Lindberg and he said of the uh Island quote iima was a massacre the uh Island quote iima was a massacre the uh Island quote iima was a massacre I never expected anything like that I never expected anything like that I never expected anything like that people were dying left and right

people were dying left and right people were dying left and right Japanese were in caves and bunkers you Japanese were in caves and bunkers you Japanese were in caves and bunkers you had to Route them out end had to Route them out end had to Route them out end quote Dean void of the fifth Marine quote Dean void of the fifth Marine quote Dean void of the fifth Marine Division said quote e would gima was as Division said quote e would gima was as Division said quote e would gima was as close to hell as you could get I can't close to hell as you could get I can't close to hell as you could get I can't even begin to describe it to you it was even begin to describe it to you it was even begin to describe it to you it was always hot meaning active gunfire all always hot meaning active gunfire all always hot meaning active gunfire all the time and explosions going off people the time and explosions going off people the time and explosions going off people getting killed left and right end quote we should remind ourselves that quote we should remind ourselves that these people had been to other places these people had been to other places these people had been to other places that are considered to be very bad that are considered to be very bad that are considered to be very bad fights as well so when they're saying fights as well so when they're saying fights as well so when they're saying that eima is on another level clearly it that eima is on another level clearly it that eima is on another level clearly it is the Japanese had eight months to is the Japanese had eight months to is the Japanese had eight months to prepare for this and this does go back I prepare for this and this does go back I prepare for this and this does go back I mean you know in many ways everyone's mean you know in many ways everyone's mean you know in many ways everyone's critical of Japanese strategy during the critical of Japanese strategy during the critical of Japanese strategy during the war and many other things but they kind war and many other things but they kind war and many other things but they kind of did Keep Their Eyes on the goal of of of did Keep Their Eyes on the goal of of of did Keep Their Eyes on the goal of of making the Allies have to take these making the Allies have to take these making the Allies have to take these islands position to position to position islands position to position to position islands position to position to position and take huge casualties doing it in the and take huge casualties doing it in the and take huge casualties doing it in the hopes that they'd get tired of it after hopes that they'd get tired of it after hopes that they'd get tired of it after all how many Americans even could find all how many Americans even could find all how many Americans even could find ewo gima on a map how many American boys ewo gima on a map how many American boys ewo gima on a map how many American boys is it worth to take a place like that is it worth to take a place like that is it worth to take a place like that especially if the people back home especially if the people back home especially if the people back home aren't thinking of many of the larger aren't thinking of many of the larger aren't thinking of many of the larger strategic implications I mean iima is strategic implications I mean iima is strategic implications I mean iima is halfway between saan and Tokyo great halfway between saan and Tokyo great halfway between saan and Tokyo great place for an Airfield lots of reasons place for an Airfield lots of reasons place for an Airfield lots of reasons you might want it how many boys is it

you might want it how many boys is it you might want it how many boys is it worth the Marines are going to give more worth the Marines are going to give more worth the Marines are going to give more than they thought they would have to and than they thought they would have to and than they thought they would have to and that's partly why it that's partly why it that's partly why it becomes this great great battle in their becomes this great great battle in their becomes this great great battle in their history it's a history it's a history it's a crucible the island has more than crucible the island has more than crucible the island has more than 800 positions pill boxes bunkers gun imp 800 positions pill boxes bunkers gun imp 800 positions pill boxes bunkers gun imp placements um the tunnels on this island placements um the tunnels on this island placements um the tunnels on this island stretch from Miles underground and I've stretch from Miles underground and I've stretch from Miles underground and I've read different accounts I've it's three read different accounts I've it's three read different accounts I've it's three miles 7 miles 10 miles 16 miles I have miles 7 miles 10 miles 16 miles I have miles 7 miles 10 miles 16 miles I have no idea which of those is true but some no idea which of those is true but some no idea which of those is true but some of them are big enough to drive a fully of them are big enough to drive a fully of them are big enough to drive a fully loaded truck loaded truck loaded truck into the commanders is 75 feet deep has into the commanders is 75 feet deep has into the commanders is 75 feet deep has electric electric electric lights is completely protected from all lights is completely protected from all lights is completely protected from all those giant Battlefield shells and his those giant Battlefield shells and his those giant Battlefield shells and his plan is to let the Americans get on the plan is to let the Americans get on the plan is to let the Americans get on the beaches with their three divisions and beaches with their three divisions and beaches with their three divisions and something like 70,000 plus men and then something like 70,000 plus men and then something like 70,000 plus men and then when everything was crammed and crowded when everything was crammed and crowded when everything was crammed and crowded into what would become one of the most into what would become one of the most into what would become one of the most congested battlefields in world history congested battlefields in world history congested battlefields in world history if you look at the numbers right how if you look at the numbers right how if you look at the numbers right how many people are on an island 8 m Square many people are on an island 8 m Square many people are on an island 8 m Square um then you start dropping Giant mortar um then you start dropping Giant mortar um then you start dropping Giant mortar rounds on these crowded rounds on these crowded rounds on these crowded beaches which have sand so fine and beaches which have sand so fine and beaches which have sand so fine and Volcanic that no one can dig in it to Volcanic that no one can dig in it to Volcanic that no one can dig in it to give themselves a little shelter and you give themselves a little shelter and you give themselves a little shelter and you start tearing up the people on the start tearing up the people on the start tearing up the people on the beaches I mean it's something like 2,000 beaches I mean it's something like 2,000 beaches I mean it's something like 2,000 casualties right away casualties right away casualties right away bam the Marines are going to suffer bam the Marines are going to suffer bam the Marines are going to suffer 8,000 casualties in the first week

8,000 casualties in the first week 8,000 casualties in the first week remember casualties means uh wounded remember casualties means uh wounded remember casualties means uh wounded missing killed prisoners right all of it missing killed prisoners right all of it missing killed prisoners right all of it here's the thing it's easy to sort of here's the thing it's easy to sort of here's the thing it's easy to sort of forget the whole wounded thing until you forget the whole wounded thing until you forget the whole wounded thing until you start reading these accounts of these start reading these accounts of these start reading these accounts of these veterans and you realize how long ago veterans and you realize how long ago veterans and you realize how long ago they're talking about when they talk they're talking about when they talk they're talking about when they talk about being wounded in a place like iima about being wounded in a place like iima about being wounded in a place like iima and yet they're still blind or they're and yet they're still blind or they're and yet they're still blind or they're still in a wheelchair or whatever the still in a wheelchair or whatever the still in a wheelchair or whatever the injury back then did to them they've injury back then did to them they've injury back then did to them they've lived with the rest of their lives so lived with the rest of their lives so lived with the rest of their lives so whereas one might think about killed and whereas one might think about killed and whereas one might think about killed and wounded on a very different level and wounded on a very different level and wounded on a very different level and whereas wounded might mean anything from whereas wounded might mean anything from whereas wounded might mean anything from slightly wounded grievously wounded we slightly wounded grievously wounded we slightly wounded grievously wounded we should recall the toll that that takes should recall the toll that that takes should recall the toll that that takes on people's lives forever afterwards on people's lives forever afterwards on people's lives forever afterwards also and in addition to that and I mean also and in addition to that and I mean also and in addition to that and I mean needless to say when you think about it needless to say when you think about it needless to say when you think about it for two seconds but combat produces all for two seconds but combat produces all for two seconds but combat produces all sorts of sorts of sorts of injuries from the physical to the injuries from the physical to the injuries from the physical to the emotional to the emotional to the emotional to the spiritual and often all of them together spiritual and often all of them together spiritual and often all of them together in Patrick K donal's into the Rising Sun in Patrick K donal's into the Rising Sun in Patrick K donal's into the Rising Sun he quotes eima veteran from the fifth he quotes eima veteran from the fifth he quotes eima veteran from the fifth Marine Division Dean Winters who talks Marine Division Dean Winters who talks Marine Division Dean Winters who talks about some fighting that goes on and about some fighting that goes on and about some fighting that goes on and then he begins to talk about the next then he begins to talk about the next then he begins to talk about the next day and he says quote the next day we day and he says quote the next day we day and he says quote the next day we were attacked again losing several men were attacked again losing several men were attacked again losing several men killed or wounded every hundred yards killed or wounded every hundred yards killed or wounded every hundred yards there was another Canyon where you had there was another Canyon where you had there was another Canyon where you had to dig the enemy out one of our comrades to dig the enemy out one of our comrades to dig the enemy out one of our comrades was captured by the Japanese and pulled

was captured by the Japanese and pulled was captured by the Japanese and pulled into a cave where they tortured him by into a cave where they tortured him by into a cave where they tortured him by splitting his finger webs up to his splitting his finger webs up to his splitting his finger webs up to his wrists he was screaming uncontrollably wrists he was screaming uncontrollably wrists he was screaming uncontrollably our Lieutenant got so angry he went in our Lieutenant got so angry he went in our Lieutenant got so angry he went in after him and was killed in the process after him and was killed in the process after him and was killed in the process there was hardly any of us left in the there was hardly any of us left in the there was hardly any of us left in the entire company for me I was HIIT on entire company for me I was HIIT on entire company for me I was HIIT on March 14th my hip joint was shot all to March 14th my hip joint was shot all to March 14th my hip joint was shot all to pieces four Marines from the Marine pieces four Marines from the Marine pieces four Marines from the Marine Corps band were moving me to the rear Corps band were moving me to the rear Corps band were moving me to the rear and one of the men was killed in the and one of the men was killed in the and one of the men was killed in the process since the war he says I've been process since the war he says I've been process since the war he says I've been confined to a wheelchair and have tried confined to a wheelchair and have tried confined to a wheelchair and have tried to live a good life however I relive the to live a good life however I relive the to live a good life however I relive the war every day war every day war every day end quote that's an example of what the quote that's an example of what the wounded in action statistic often boils wounded in action statistic often boils wounded in action statistic often boils down to worth bearing in down to worth bearing in down to worth bearing in mind that's a man who thinks about the mind that's a man who thinks about the mind that's a man who thinks about the war a war from 70 plus years ago every war a war from 70 plus years ago every war a war from 70 plus years ago every single day right when he wakes up if you read a lot about these various up if you read a lot about these various battles in the Pacific as many of you battles in the Pacific as many of you battles in the Pacific as many of you have I know you begin to notice have I know you begin to notice have I know you begin to notice similarities and differences and the similarities and differences and the similarities and differences and the differences begin to stand out so you differences begin to stand out so you differences begin to stand out so you can differentiate one battle from can differentiate one battle from can differentiate one battle from another at EO it's interesting how many another at EO it's interesting how many another at EO it's interesting how many of the people on both sides talk about of the people on both sides talk about of the people on both sides talk about how terrible the wounds are and how how terrible the wounds are and how how terrible the wounds are and how unlike many of these other Island unlike many of these other Island unlike many of these other Island battles they were uh and I've seen all

battles they were uh and I've seen all battles they were uh and I've seen all sorts of reasons uh suggesting why that sorts of reasons uh suggesting why that sorts of reasons uh suggesting why that might be a lot of mortars used for might be a lot of mortars used for might be a lot of mortars used for example in the Japanese were using these example in the Japanese were using these example in the Japanese were using these massive ones I mean a lot of times massive ones I mean a lot of times massive ones I mean a lot of times mortars are like 60 mm mortars which are mortars are like 60 mm mortars which are mortars are like 60 mm mortars which are they're kind of light mortars these they're kind of light mortars these they're kind of light mortars these Japanese are using ones that are like 12 Japanese are using ones that are like 12 Japanese are using ones that are like 12 in mortars shooting in mortars shooting in mortars shooting 750 lb um projectiles that have been 750 lb um projectiles that have been 750 lb um projectiles that have been decl Ash cans flying Ash cans is the way decl Ash cans flying Ash cans is the way decl Ash cans flying Ash cans is the way one veteran described them mini one veteran described them mini one veteran described them mini refrigerators going so slow as they Arc refrigerators going so slow as they Arc refrigerators going so slow as they Arc up in the air you can see them and watch up in the air you can see them and watch up in the air you can see them and watch them and then when they blow up they them and then when they blow up they them and then when they blow up they leave a giant hole on the ground and uh leave a giant hole on the ground and uh leave a giant hole on the ground and uh whatever was anywhere nearby is whatever was anywhere nearby is whatever was anywhere nearby is gone and there's no place to hide on an gone and there's no place to hide on an gone and there's no place to hide on an island this small everything's within island this small everything's within island this small everything's within range at no time does the commander range at no time does the commander range at no time does the commander allow although there are some people who allow although there are some people who allow although there are some people who do it anyway the suicidal charges that do it anyway the suicidal charges that do it anyway the suicidal charges that the Japanese have launched all the Japanese have launched all the Japanese have launched all throughout the war that use up so much throughout the war that use up so much throughout the war that use up so much of their Manpower for no good reason of their Manpower for no good reason of their Manpower for no good reason he's keeping his people hiding and he's keeping his people hiding and he's keeping his people hiding and they're job is to kill Americans not to they're job is to kill Americans not to they're job is to kill Americans not to get killed charging get killed charging get killed charging them they have to be methodically taken them they have to be methodically taken them they have to be methodically taken out um one Japanese Survivor had said out um one Japanese Survivor had said out um one Japanese Survivor had said that it was like watching people try to that it was like watching people try to that it was like watching people try to exterminate insects it was just exterminate insects it was just exterminate insects it was just methodical and if you ever watch film I methodical and if you ever watch film I methodical and if you ever watch film I was going to say video film of this was going to say video film of this was going to say video film of this stuff that's what it looks like it looks stuff that's what it looks like it looks stuff that's what it looks like it looks like workmen a lot of the time uh

like workmen a lot of the time uh like workmen a lot of the time uh sealing up caves blowing up stuff lots sealing up caves blowing up stuff lots sealing up caves blowing up stuff lots and lots of flamethrower rower usage um and lots of flamethrower rower usage um and lots of flamethrower rower usage um which turned out to be very important which turned out to be very important which turned out to be very important for this because a lot of the time you for this because a lot of the time you for this because a lot of the time you couldn't get the Japanese out any other couldn't get the Japanese out any other couldn't get the Japanese out any other way but the wounds caused by all this way but the wounds caused by all this way but the wounds caused by all this equipment are terrible and remarked Upon equipment are terrible and remarked Upon equipment are terrible and remarked Upon A Life Magazine reporter Bob sherro had A Life Magazine reporter Bob sherro had A Life Magazine reporter Bob sherro had said and he's quoted in many of my said and he's quoted in many of my said and he's quoted in many of my sources Ian W tol adds some context sources Ian W tol adds some context sources Ian W tol adds some context though when he writes a though when he writes a though when he writes a quote in the first 5 days of the battle quote in the first 5 days of the battle quote in the first 5 days of the battle the Marines suffered an average of more the Marines suffered an average of more the Marines suffered an average of more than 1,200 casual uales per day the than 1,200 casual uales per day the than 1,200 casual uales per day the beaches and the flat terrain around the beaches and the flat terrain around the beaches and the flat terrain around the airfields were strewn with dead shell airfields were strewn with dead shell airfields were strewn with dead shell craters left records of direct hits some craters left records of direct hits some craters left records of direct hits some contained the mashed up remains of 10 or contained the mashed up remains of 10 or contained the mashed up remains of 10 or 12 Marines exploring The Terraces above 12 Marines exploring The Terraces above 12 Marines exploring The Terraces above red Beach Bob sherro observed quote red Beach Bob sherro observed quote red Beach Bob sherro observed quote nowhere in the Pacific War had I seen nowhere in the Pacific War had I seen nowhere in the Pacific War had I seen such badly mangled bodies many were cut such badly mangled bodies many were cut such badly mangled bodies many were cut squarely in half legs and arms lay 50 ft squarely in half legs and arms lay 50 ft squarely in half legs and arms lay 50 ft away from any body in one spot on the away from any body in one spot on the away from any body in one spot on the sand far from the nearest cluster of sand far from the nearest cluster of sand far from the nearest cluster of dead I saw a string of guts 15 ft long dead I saw a string of guts 15 ft long dead I saw a string of guts 15 ft long end end end quote another sherro narrative or the quote another sherro narrative or the quote another sherro narrative or the same one later I don't know is picked up same one later I don't know is picked up same one later I don't know is picked up by um Francis Pike in hirohito's by um Francis Pike in hirohito's by um Francis Pike in hirohito's war Francis Pike's account by the way uh war Francis Pike's account by the way uh war Francis Pike's account by the way uh picks up after the Marines get off the picks up after the Marines get off the picks up after the Marines get off the beach on the first day and start moving

beach on the first day and start moving beach on the first day and start moving Inland and uh Pike used a word I'd never Inland and uh Pike used a word I'd never Inland and uh Pike used a word I'd never seen before so I looked it up and I'm seen before so I looked it up and I'm seen before so I looked it up and I'm substituting the uh the more commonly substituting the uh the more commonly substituting the uh the more commonly used term let's put it that way um and used term let's put it that way um and used term let's put it that way um and Pike gives his own version of context on Pike gives his own version of context on Pike gives his own version of context on the first day and writes a the first day and writes a the first day and writes a quote advancing towards Chidori airport quote advancing towards Chidori airport quote advancing towards Chidori airport the leading Marines were suddenly cut the leading Marines were suddenly cut the leading Marines were suddenly cut down by concealed underground positions down by concealed underground positions down by concealed underground positions General kuray ASI's death machine roared General kuray ASI's death machine roared General kuray ASI's death machine roared into action it turned into a battle like into action it turned into a battle like into action it turned into a battle like no other in World War II Japan's no other in World War II Japan's no other in World War II Japan's Defenders had the advantage over Defenders had the advantage over Defenders had the advantage over attackers Mobility which characterized attackers Mobility which characterized attackers Mobility which characterized the advantage usually afforded the the advantage usually afforded the the advantage usually afforded the attacker in this situation was entirely attacker in this situation was entirely attacker in this situation was entirely nullified in a fight that had to be won nullified in a fight that had to be won nullified in a fight that had to be won whole BYO pillbox by pillbox and Cave by whole BYO pillbox by pillbox and Cave by whole BYO pillbox by pillbox and Cave by cave by the end of the first day of cave by the end of the first day of cave by the end of the first day of fighting 600 Americans lay dead and a fighting 600 Americans lay dead and a fighting 600 Americans lay dead and a further 2,000 more had been wounded further 2,000 more had been wounded further 2,000 more had been wounded unusually some of the highest casualties unusually some of the highest casualties unusually some of the highest casualties were engineers of the 133rd cabbs the were engineers of the 133rd cabbs the were engineers of the 133rd cabbs the Western beaches he writes were strewn Western beaches he writes were strewn Western beaches he writes were strewn with wrecked machines body parts and with wrecked machines body parts and with wrecked machines body parts and mangled bodies at 5:00 p.m. a sickened mangled bodies at 5:00 p.m. a sickened mangled bodies at 5:00 p.m. a sickened Keith wheeler told Robert sherod of Life Keith wheeler told Robert sherod of Life Keith wheeler told Robert sherod of Life magazine quote there's more hell in magazine quote there's more hell in magazine quote there's more hell in there than I've seen in the rest of the there than I've seen in the rest of the there than I've seen in the rest of the war put together end quote the noise was war put together end quote the noise was war put together end quote the noise was almost unbearable sherod noted now almost unbearable sherod noted now almost unbearable sherod noted now quoting sherod who was an eyewitness to quoting sherod who was an eyewitness to quoting sherod who was an eyewitness to this quote as the shells burst as they

this quote as the shells burst as they this quote as the shells burst as they crashed and shrieked one of the Wounded crashed and shrieked one of the Wounded crashed and shrieked one of the Wounded Rose from his stretcher he rose slowly Rose from his stretcher he rose slowly Rose from his stretcher he rose slowly bending at the waist his head was Bare bending at the waist his head was Bare bending at the waist his head was Bare and his arms were straight and rigid at and his arms were straight and rigid at and his arms were straight and rigid at his side he sat mouth open and screamed his side he sat mouth open and screamed his side he sat mouth open and screamed oh my God my God good God Almighty the oh my God my God good God Almighty the oh my God my God good God Almighty the Corporal sobbed into the dirt end Corporal sobbed into the dirt end Corporal sobbed into the dirt end quote in the book a tomb called iima by quote in the book a tomb called iima by quote in the book a tomb called iima by Dan King uh he quotes a Japanese veteran Dan King uh he quotes a Japanese veteran Dan King uh he quotes a Japanese veteran named named named omagari who comments on the fact that omagari who comments on the fact that omagari who comments on the fact that the Marines named one part of iojima the the Marines named one part of iojima the the Marines named one part of iojima the meat grinder and King says that omagari meat grinder and King says that omagari meat grinder and King says that omagari could easily understand why the marines could easily understand why the marines could easily understand why the marines called it that saying quote men didn't called it that saying quote men didn't called it that saying quote men didn't just die on iima they were ripped apart just die on iima they were ripped apart just die on iima they were ripped apart torn to shreds and Scattered I saw torn to shreds and Scattered I saw torn to shreds and Scattered I saw torsos with no limbs dismembered legs torsos with no limbs dismembered legs torsos with no limbs dismembered legs arms and hands and internal organs arms and hands and internal organs arms and hands and internal organs splashed onto the splashed onto the splashed onto the Rocks end quote the author then says Rocks end quote the author then says Rocks end quote the author then says Captain Fred Haynes later Major General Captain Fred Haynes later Major General Captain Fred Haynes later Major General Fred Haynes the operations officer for Fred Haynes the operations officer for Fred Haynes the operations officer for the 28th combat team uh he says he may the 28th combat team uh he says he may the 28th combat team uh he says he may have summed it up best when he said have summed it up best when he said have summed it up best when he said quote each day we learn new ways to die quote each day we learn new ways to die quote each day we learn new ways to die end end end quote these are the American accounts quote these are the American accounts quote these are the American accounts the Japanese accounts are of people who the Japanese accounts are of people who the Japanese accounts are of people who are living and this is the word you'll are living and this is the word you'll are living and this is the word you'll see so often like see so often like see so often like trites underground with virtually no

trites underground with virtually no trites underground with virtually no water the island has virtually no water water the island has virtually no water water the island has virtually no water people who know they're going to die are people who know they're going to die are people who know they're going to die are living amongst the dead and are dealing living amongst the dead and are dealing living amongst the dead and are dealing with anytime they come out of their with anytime they come out of their with anytime they come out of their holes just absolutely overwhelming holes just absolutely overwhelming holes just absolutely overwhelming Firepower but their job we should recall Firepower but their job we should recall Firepower but their job we should recall was always to die and victory or defeat was always to die and victory or defeat was always to die and victory or defeat will be measured by how many Americans will be measured by how many Americans will be measured by how many Americans they're able to take with they're able to take with they're able to take with them and they take enough Americans with them and they take enough Americans with them and they take enough Americans with them to influence public opinion back in them to influence public opinion back in them to influence public opinion back in the United states which was a large part the United states which was a large part the United states which was a large part of their goal right to get the home of their goal right to get the home of their goal right to get the home front asking the questions of whether or front asking the questions of whether or front asking the questions of whether or not all this is worth it it reminds me not all this is worth it it reminds me not all this is worth it it reminds me of the Ted offensive in the Vietnam war of the Ted offensive in the Vietnam war of the Ted offensive in the Vietnam war that wasn't intended to have some that wasn't intended to have some that wasn't intended to have some stunning victory over South Vietnamese stunning victory over South Vietnamese stunning victory over South Vietnamese and US forces in the field it was and US forces in the field it was and US forces in the field it was intended to influence public opinion intended to influence public opinion intended to influence public opinion back on the home front to tell those back on the home front to tell those back on the home front to tell those people that you've been told the war is people that you've been told the war is people that you've been told the war is almost over well you've been lied to almost over well you've been lied to almost over well you've been lied to otherwise how could we do this still otherwise how could we do this still otherwise how could we do this still the Japanese are kind of sending the the Japanese are kind of sending the the Japanese are kind of sending the same message back to the United States same message back to the United States same message back to the United States and the Americans on the home front are and the Americans on the home front are and the Americans on the home front are hearing it loud and clear the Americans take almost 29,000 clear the Americans take almost 29,000 casualties and need more than a month to casualties and need more than a month to casualties and need more than a month to take an island that's 4 and a half miles take an island that's 4 and a half miles take an island that's 4 and a half miles long and 2 miles wide that most long and 2 miles wide that most long and 2 miles wide that most Americans don't even know where it Americans don't even know where it Americans don't even know where it is the Japanese of course as is their

is the Japanese of course as is their is the Japanese of course as is their trademark now and that something that no trademark now and that something that no trademark now and that something that no one else does on a regular basis lose one else does on a regular basis lose one else does on a regular basis lose almost everyone again they had between almost everyone again they had between almost everyone again they had between 21 and 22,000 guys on the island 21 and 22,000 guys on the island 21 and 22,000 guys on the island slightly over 200 uh will be taken slightly over 200 uh will be taken slightly over 200 uh will be taken prisoner and most of those as usual are prisoner and most of those as usual are prisoner and most of those as usual are Korean and Taiwanese workers who are Korean and Taiwanese workers who are Korean and Taiwanese workers who are generally impressed into service and generally impressed into service and generally impressed into service and don't want to be there to begin with so here we are with the war with so here we are with the war seemingly you know certainly in the end seemingly you know certainly in the end seemingly you know certainly in the end stages here right we're approaching stages here right we're approaching stages here right we're approaching Japan proper and yet the fighting is Japan proper and yet the fighting is Japan proper and yet the fighting is getting getting getting harder and the people back home notice harder and the people back home notice harder and the people back home notice and they want and they want and they want answers in the wonderful book implacable answers in the wonderful book implacable answers in the wonderful book implacable foes historians Waldo Henrik and Mark foes historians Waldo Henrik and Mark foes historians Waldo Henrik and Mark aikio write this aikio write this aikio write this quote the tollen lives lost on eima quote the tollen lives lost on eima quote the tollen lives lost on eima produced a strong reaction at home and produced a strong reaction at home and produced a strong reaction at home and weighed heavily on the minds of those weighed heavily on the minds of those weighed heavily on the minds of those who directed the war on March 15th in who directed the war on March 15th in who directed the war on March 15th in the midst of the battle the Navy the midst of the battle the Navy the midst of the battle the Navy released an anguished letter it had released an anguished letter it had released an anguished letter it had received from an unidentified woman received from an unidentified woman received from an unidentified woman pleading quote please for God's sake pleading quote please for God's sake pleading quote please for God's sake stop sending our finest youth to be stop sending our finest youth to be stop sending our finest youth to be murdered on places like iojima she murdered on places like iojima she murdered on places like iojima she continued in the letter quote it is too continued in the letter quote it is too continued in the letter quote it is too much for boys to stand she wrote too much for boys to stand she wrote too much for boys to stand she wrote too much for mothers and homes to take it is much for mothers and homes to take it is much for mothers and homes to take it is driving some mothers crazy why can't driving some mothers crazy why can't driving some mothers crazy why can't objectives be taken in some other way it objectives be taken in some other way it objectives be taken in some other way it is most inhuman and awful

is most inhuman and awful is most inhuman and awful stop stop stop stop end stop end stop end quote it's interesting that the Navy quote it's interesting that the Navy quote it's interesting that the Navy released that isn't it but according to released that isn't it but according to released that isn't it but according to these historians and others uh a lot of these historians and others uh a lot of these historians and others uh a lot of it has to do with an effort to begin to it has to do with an effort to begin to it has to do with an effort to begin to gird the public for what is to come they are starting to almost come they are starting to almost celebrate in advance because the war in celebrate in advance because the war in celebrate in advance because the war in Europe against Nazi Germany is clearly Europe against Nazi Germany is clearly Europe against Nazi Germany is clearly winding up right and the defeat is winding up right and the defeat is winding up right and the defeat is imminent over there so the tendency is imminent over there so the tendency is imminent over there so the tendency is to think yeah Victory is near and we can to think yeah Victory is near and we can to think yeah Victory is near and we can celebrate and we can stop all this celebrate and we can stop all this celebrate and we can stop all this rationing and the boys can come home and rationing and the boys can come home and rationing and the boys can come home and the killing can stop and all that not so fast the Japanese just inflicted 29,000 fast the Japanese just inflicted 29,000 casualties for tiny little volcanic rock casualties for tiny little volcanic rock casualties for tiny little volcanic rock in the middle of nowhere and they're not in the middle of nowhere and they're not in the middle of nowhere and they're not showing any signs of being willing to showing any signs of being willing to showing any signs of being willing to surrender and uh Henrik and Galia right surrender and uh Henrik and Galia right surrender and uh Henrik and Galia right quote and by the way uh forestal is the quote and by the way uh forestal is the quote and by the way uh forestal is the secretary of the Navy quote forest's secretary of the Navy quote forest's secretary of the Navy quote forest's willingness to publish the unidentified willingness to publish the unidentified willingness to publish the unidentified woman's letter and his acknowledgement woman's letter and his acknowledgement woman's letter and his acknowledgement that many others like it had been that many others like it had been that many others like it had been received suggests that he and his received suggests that he and his received suggests that he and his advisers recognized that they were advisers recognized that they were advisers recognized that they were reaching a critical moment in the war as reaching a critical moment in the war as reaching a critical moment in the war as the letters made clear a significant the letters made clear a significant the letters made clear a significant segment of the public was beginning to segment of the public was beginning to segment of the public was beginning to find the war's cost intolerable just as find the war's cost intolerable just as find the war's cost intolerable just as American forces were drawing closer to American forces were drawing closer to American forces were drawing closer to Japan harder fighting lay ahead and that Japan harder fighting lay ahead and that Japan harder fighting lay ahead and that reality had to be confronted directly reality had to be confronted directly reality had to be confronted directly Forest seemed to say towards that end

Forest seemed to say towards that end Forest seemed to say towards that end they write the armed forces were aiding they write the armed forces were aiding they write the armed forces were aiding News Real companies in producing more News Real companies in producing more News Real companies in producing more realistic reports of the fighting in realistic reports of the fighting in realistic reports of the fighting in Europe and the Pacific during the battle Europe and the Pacific during the battle Europe and the Pacific during the battle for iima raw footage was dispatched back for iima raw footage was dispatched back for iima raw footage was dispatched back to the newsreal companies in New York to the newsreal companies in New York to the newsreal companies in New York and was ready for distribution within and was ready for distribution within and was ready for distribution within two weeks of the initial Landings the two weeks of the initial Landings the two weeks of the initial Landings the news reels produced from the film news reels produced from the film news reels produced from the film displayed the horror of war with displayed the horror of war with displayed the horror of war with disturbing cander Bosley Crowther a disturbing cander Bosley Crowther a disturbing cander Bosley Crowther a writer for the New York Times observed writer for the New York Times observed writer for the New York Times observed that quote the news reels thank heaven that quote the news reels thank heaven that quote the news reels thank heaven are getting tougher they're letting us are getting tougher they're letting us are getting tougher they're letting us have it right between the eyes end have it right between the eyes end have it right between the eyes end quote and the historians finish by quote and the historians finish by quote and the historians finish by saying saying saying quote of particular note Crowther added quote of particular note Crowther added quote of particular note Crowther added was Pacific Fury the name of a film a was Pacific Fury the name of a film a was Pacific Fury the name of a film a forthcoming film on the capture of pelo forthcoming film on the capture of pelo forthcoming film on the capture of pelo and nearby anguar I think it's Angar and nearby anguar I think it's Angar and nearby anguar I think it's Angar that looked closely into the faces of that looked closely into the faces of that looked closely into the faces of the men who fought these battles and the men who fought these battles and the men who fought these battles and thus person analyz The Strain and thus person analyz The Strain and thus person analyz The Strain and suffering they endured end suffering they endured end suffering they endured end quote that was a long quote and I quote that was a long quote and I quote that was a long quote and I apologize for that but I wanted to get apologize for that but I wanted to get apologize for that but I wanted to get the the the historians um to weigh in on this historians um to weigh in on this historians um to weigh in on this because trying to gauge uh what a public because trying to gauge uh what a public because trying to gauge uh what a public mood might have been like at a time uh mood might have been like at a time uh mood might have been like at a time uh like this is something that historians like this is something that historians like this is something that historians are particularly well suited to do and are particularly well suited to do and are particularly well suited to do and um you know it's funny how this dovet um you know it's funny how this dovet um you know it's funny how this dovet Tales though to the original Japanese Tales though to the original Japanese Tales though to the original Japanese concept here when you factored it down concept here when you factored it down concept here when you factored it down to the B basic question of who was going to the B basic question of who was going to the B basic question of who was going to win the war it was going to be

to win the war it was going to be to win the war it was going to be whoever was willing to suck up more whoever was willing to suck up more whoever was willing to suck up more casualties for a bunch of places that casualties for a bunch of places that casualties for a bunch of places that really didn't mean that much to really didn't mean that much to really didn't mean that much to Americans it's not like we're talking Americans it's not like we're talking Americans it's not like we're talking about the Japanese conquering a US state about the Japanese conquering a US state about the Japanese conquering a US state in North America right you're going to in North America right you're going to in North America right you're going to fight to the death for that but do fight to the death for that but do fight to the death for that but do Americans care about uima that much Americans care about uima that much Americans care about uima that much because the Japanese care for it a lot because the Japanese care for it a lot because the Japanese care for it a lot but it's a lot closer to them isn't it but it's a lot closer to them isn't it but it's a lot closer to them isn't it not only is it the American public by not only is it the American public by not only is it the American public by the way who's starting to fume a little the way who's starting to fume a little the way who's starting to fume a little bit about this and and get a little bit about this and and get a little bit about this and and get a little impatient especially amongst people impatient especially amongst people impatient especially amongst people who've lost people or people who are who've lost people or people who are who've lost people or people who are going to lose people in the future if going to lose people in the future if going to lose people in the future if this continues uh you're starting to see this continues uh you're starting to see this continues uh you're starting to see Discord being sown by some of the media Discord being sown by some of the media Discord being sown by some of the media Outlets I mean the San Francisco Outlets I mean the San Francisco Outlets I mean the San Francisco Examiner a newspaper that's owned by Examiner a newspaper that's owned by Examiner a newspaper that's owned by William Randolph Hurst makes the William Randolph Hurst makes the William Randolph Hurst makes the predictable criticism here that this is predictable criticism here that this is predictable criticism here that this is bad leadership right it's a little bad leadership right it's a little bad leadership right it's a little Monday morning quarterbacking where Monday morning quarterbacking where Monday morning quarterbacking where they're saying if MacArthur was in they're saying if MacArthur was in they're saying if MacArthur was in charge of this this would to happen charge of this this would to happen charge of this this would to happen right he's a genius he's known for right he's a genius he's known for right he's a genius he's known for saving his troops lives if he was here saving his troops lives if he was here saving his troops lives if he was here you know in other words sort of casting you know in other words sort of casting you know in other words sort of casting blame on this idea that command should blame on this idea that command should blame on this idea that command should have been divided at all and that have been divided at all and that have been divided at all and that anybody but MacArthur should have been anybody but MacArthur should have been anybody but MacArthur should have been in command now we should point out in command now we should point out in command now we should point out though Hurst is a guy who would probably though Hurst is a guy who would probably though Hurst is a guy who would probably gladly support Douglas MacArthur for the gladly support Douglas MacArthur for the gladly support Douglas MacArthur for the Republican nomination for president in Republican nomination for president in Republican nomination for president in the next election so this is maybe not the next election so this is maybe not the next election so this is maybe not all it appears to be on the surface but all it appears to be on the surface but all it appears to be on the surface but it's a sign it's a sign that people it's a sign it's a sign that people it's a sign it's a sign that people aren't happy with the level of aren't happy with the level of aren't happy with the level of casualties that are being taken and casualties that are being taken and casualties that are being taken and people are wondering whether or not it's people are wondering whether or not it's people are wondering whether or not it's worth it either we're not fighting it worth it either we're not fighting it worth it either we're not fighting it right or maybe we shouldn't be fighting right or maybe we shouldn't be fighting right or maybe we shouldn't be fighting it at all this is a worrying sign for a it at all this is a worrying sign for a it at all this is a worrying sign for a country about to see a skyrocketing in country about to see a skyrocketing in country about to see a skyrocketing in the amount of casualties that you have

the amount of casualties that you have the amount of casualties that you have to have in this theater to get this over to have in this theater to get this over to have in this theater to get this over with look at what the Russians are with look at what the Russians are with look at what the Russians are starting to take um the Soviets in their starting to take um the Soviets in their starting to take um the Soviets in their last push towards Berlin it's last push towards Berlin it's last push towards Berlin it's horrifying and what the Germans take you horrifying and what the Germans take you horrifying and what the Germans take you know in the process as well that's what know in the process as well that's what know in the process as well that's what those numbers we started off this those numbers we started off this those numbers we started off this segment were all about it's a meat segment were all about it's a meat segment were all about it's a meat grinder and um and they're getting it grinder and um and they're getting it grinder and um and they're getting it done in the European theater a couple of done in the European theater a couple of done in the European theater a couple of months before it's going to happen here months before it's going to happen here months before it's going to happen here in the Pacific in the Pacific in the Pacific is there a way out of hell here well is there a way out of hell here well is there a way out of hell here well maybe maybe is the key word here because maybe maybe is the key word here because maybe maybe is the key word here because there are different views on ways that there are different views on ways that there are different views on ways that the war can be shortened but because the war can be shortened but because the war can be shortened but because there's not enough data for one side or there's not enough data for one side or there's not enough data for one side or another to whip out there in support of another to whip out there in support of another to whip out there in support of their argument that it becomes sort of a their argument that it becomes sort of a their argument that it becomes sort of a he said she said wartime situation he said she said wartime situation he said she said wartime situation there's a group of people who believe there's a group of people who believe there's a group of people who believe that a weapon already exists that would that a weapon already exists that would that a weapon already exists that would make the dreaded 1946 invasion of Japan make the dreaded 1946 invasion of Japan make the dreaded 1946 invasion of Japan scenario go up in a puff of smoke become scenario go up in a puff of smoke become scenario go up in a puff of smoke become moot instantly and you wouldn't have to moot instantly and you wouldn't have to moot instantly and you wouldn't have to have any more those eimas this is the have any more those eimas this is the have any more those eimas this is the sort of weapon that the mother writing sort of weapon that the mother writing sort of weapon that the mother writing that we couldn't take anymore of sending that we couldn't take anymore of sending that we couldn't take anymore of sending our flower of our youth to go die for our flower of our youth to go die for our flower of our youth to go die for these meaningless places well what if these meaningless places well what if these meaningless places well what if you had a way around that problem right you had a way around that problem right you had a way around that problem right what would that be worth to you or to what would that be worth to you or to what would that be worth to you or to your country or to the your country or to the your country or to the Allies there are people who are Allies there are people who are Allies there are people who are proponents of the idea that bombing from proponents of the idea that bombing from proponents of the idea that bombing from the air can be decisive in a war the

the air can be decisive in a war the the air can be decisive in a war the theory can go either way it's got theory can go either way it's got theory can go either way it's got proponents and opponents but the best proponents and opponents but the best proponents and opponents but the best short anunciation of the hypothesis I've short anunciation of the hypothesis I've short anunciation of the hypothesis I've ever seen I ran across in Gwen Dyer's ever seen I ran across in Gwen Dyer's ever seen I ran across in Gwen Dyer's book War and he quotes the British uh book War and he quotes the British uh book War and he quotes the British uh head of bomber command Sir Arthur Harris head of bomber command Sir Arthur Harris head of bomber command Sir Arthur Harris who said during the war quote there are who said during the war quote there are who said during the war quote there are a lot of people who say that bombing can a lot of people who say that bombing can a lot of people who say that bombing can never win a war well my answer to that never win a war well my answer to that never win a war well my answer to that is that it has never been tried yet and is that it has never been tried yet and is that it has never been tried yet and we shall see end we shall see end we shall see end quote aerial theorists in multiple quote aerial theorists in multiple quote aerial theorists in multiple countries both axis and Allied have been countries both axis and Allied have been countries both axis and Allied have been thinking about this sort of stuff for a thinking about this sort of stuff for a thinking about this sort of stuff for a while now in Germany you're starting to while now in Germany you're starting to while now in Germany you're starting to finally see bombing make a difference it finally see bombing make a difference it finally see bombing make a difference it kind of looks in the statistics and kind of looks in the statistics and kind of looks in the statistics and these arguments are still ongoing too these arguments are still ongoing too these arguments are still ongoing too that the bombing was sort of something that the bombing was sort of something that the bombing was sort of something that was a pin prick for Germany for a that was a pin prick for Germany for a that was a pin prick for Germany for a long time or that they could work around long time or that they could work around long time or that they could work around and then all of a sudden late 194 4 and then all of a sudden late 194 4 and then all of a sudden late 194 4 early 1945 you reach like all of us a early 1945 you reach like all of us a early 1945 you reach like all of us a capsized moment where it starts to be capsized moment where it starts to be capsized moment where it starts to be having a huge impact on things which having a huge impact on things which having a huge impact on things which let's be fair there were other things let's be fair there were other things let's be fair there were other things happening to the German military uh that happening to the German military uh that happening to the German military uh that that also would have played into what that also would have played into what that also would have played into what turns out to be like a you know systemic turns out to be like a you know systemic turns out to be like a you know systemic failure at a certain point but let's failure at a certain point but let's failure at a certain point but let's remember for contextual reasons what remember for contextual reasons what remember for contextual reasons what aerial Weaponry is doing to Germany late aerial Weaponry is doing to Germany late aerial Weaponry is doing to Germany late in the in the in the war in the book choices Under Fire moral war in the book choices Under Fire moral war in the book choices Under Fire moral dimensions of World War II historian dimensions of World War II historian dimensions of World War II historian Michael Bess writes Michael Bess writes Michael Bess writes quote on February 3rd

quote on February 3rd quote on February 3rd 1945 the us8 Air Force sent 937 bombers 1945 the us8 Air Force sent 937 bombers 1945 the us8 Air Force sent 937 bombers and 613 escorting Fighters over Berlin and 613 escorting Fighters over Berlin and 613 escorting Fighters over Berlin they leveled large parts of the city and they leveled large parts of the city and they leveled large parts of the city and killed some 25,000 persons on February killed some 25,000 persons on February killed some 25,000 persons on February 14th and 15th 800 British and 400 14th and 15th 800 British and 400 14th and 15th 800 British and 400 American bombers flew in over Dresden American bombers flew in over Dresden American bombers flew in over Dresden igniting a firestorm that burned for a igniting a firestorm that burned for a igniting a firestorm that burned for a weak and killed at least 60,000 weak and killed at least 60,000 weak and killed at least 60,000 non-combatants end non-combatants end non-combatants end quote now I've seen a much lower quote now I've seen a much lower quote now I've seen a much lower casualty figure for Dresden than that casualty figure for Dresden than that casualty figure for Dresden than that but even if it only killed 25,000 only but even if it only killed 25,000 only but even if it only killed 25,000 only 25,000 and this in a country that has 25,000 and this in a country that has 25,000 and this in a country that has relatively sophisticated civil defense relatively sophisticated civil defense relatively sophisticated civil defense um facilities I mean these people are um facilities I mean these people are um facilities I mean these people are mostly in bomb shelters and you get mostly in bomb shelters and you get mostly in bomb shelters and you get those kind of casualties how horrible those kind of casualties how horrible those kind of casualties how horrible would they be they were running out in would they be they were running out in would they be they were running out in the the the open Germany's getting hit multiple open Germany's getting hit multiple open Germany's getting hit multiple times a week and by the end of the war I times a week and by the end of the war I times a week and by the end of the war I believe heidleberg is the only mid to believe heidleberg is the only mid to believe heidleberg is the only mid to large-sized German city that is not large-sized German city that is not large-sized German city that is not decimated by the bomb damage or really decimated by the bomb damage or really decimated by the bomb damage or really completely wiped off the map go look at completely wiped off the map go look at completely wiped off the map go look at photos it is photos it is photos it is shocking you are not seeing those kinds shocking you are not seeing those kinds shocking you are not seeing those kinds of results in the Pacific Asia theater of results in the Pacific Asia theater of results in the Pacific Asia theater yet this is how Total War turns things yet this is how Total War turns things yet this is how Total War turns things morally Topsy Turvy right is that the uh morally Topsy Turvy right is that the uh morally Topsy Turvy right is that the uh people who are running the b29 super people who are running the b29 super people who are running the b29 super fortresses out of the maranis island fortresses out of the maranis island fortresses out of the maranis island since 1944 bombing Japan they're in

since 1944 bombing Japan they're in since 1944 bombing Japan they're in trouble for not doing the sort of damage trouble for not doing the sort of damage trouble for not doing the sort of damage that we just mentioned in Europe but that we just mentioned in Europe but that we just mentioned in Europe but today people look on that as today people look on that as today people look on that as horrifying but in a war if you had a I horrifying but in a war if you had a I horrifying but in a war if you had a I mean I guarantee you when the Allied mean I guarantee you when the Allied mean I guarantee you when the Allied populations woke up in their newspaper populations woke up in their newspaper populations woke up in their newspaper and read about those bombing raids in and read about those bombing raids in and read about those bombing raids in Germany that I just quoted from Michael Germany that I just quoted from Michael Germany that I just quoted from Michael bess's book those are good things to bess's book those are good things to bess's book those are good things to them not bad things there's a difference them not bad things there's a difference them not bad things there's a difference between you know they say In Cold Blood between you know they say In Cold Blood between you know they say In Cold Blood or in hot blood with murders and crimes or in hot blood with murders and crimes or in hot blood with murders and crimes uh war is hot blood us today trying to uh war is hot blood us today trying to uh war is hot blood us today trying to make sense of their decision- making is make sense of their decision- making is make sense of their decision- making is done in Cold Blood and it's a very done in Cold Blood and it's a very done in Cold Blood and it's a very different different different thing the idea that the commanders of thing the idea that the commanders of thing the idea that the commanders of the American Air assets and the Marianas the American Air assets and the Marianas the American Air assets and the Marianas are in trouble for not doing more damage are in trouble for not doing more damage are in trouble for not doing more damage to Japan not being more effective gives to Japan not being more effective gives to Japan not being more effective gives you an idea though of what the you an idea though of what the you an idea though of what the priorities are and in January 1945 they priorities are and in January 1945 they priorities are and in January 1945 they bring in new leadership to see if they bring in new leadership to see if they bring in new leadership to see if they can you know shake up the results here can you know shake up the results here can you know shake up the results here and the guy who comes in to do that is and the guy who comes in to do that is and the guy who comes in to do that is one of the famous proponents of aerial one of the famous proponents of aerial one of the famous proponents of aerial bombing he is a guy who is much who is bombing he is a guy who is much who is bombing he is a guy who is much who is as much of a caricature as uh MacArthur as much of a caricature as uh MacArthur as much of a caricature as uh MacArthur is or General Patton is and he's a lot is or General Patton is and he's a lot is or General Patton is and he's a lot like Patton the kind of guy who has like Patton the kind of guy who has like Patton the kind of guy who has those sort of can do um almost heartless those sort of can do um almost heartless those sort of can do um almost heartless toward the enemy uh sorts of attitudes toward the enemy uh sorts of attitudes toward the enemy uh sorts of attitudes in Wartime and then when we go from hot in Wartime and then when we go from hot in Wartime and then when we go from hot blood to Cold Blood they look horribly blood to Cold Blood they look horribly blood to Cold Blood they look horribly out of place uh there are a couple of out of place uh there are a couple of out of place uh there are a couple of figures is in the famous movie Doctor figures is in the famous movie Doctor figures is in the famous movie Doctor Strange Love where if you mash them Strange Love where if you mash them Strange Love where if you mash them together you get one General Curtis lame together you get one General Curtis lame together you get one General Curtis lame and that's who gets brought in to shake

and that's who gets brought in to shake and that's who gets brought in to shake things up with the b29 super fortresses things up with the b29 super fortresses things up with the b29 super fortresses oh incidentally the most expensive oh incidentally the most expensive oh incidentally the most expensive weapon the weapon the weapon the US paid for for this War I mean it's the US paid for for this War I mean it's the US paid for for this War I mean it's the most exp expensive weapons program and most exp expensive weapons program and most exp expensive weapons program and you'll win a trivia contest against you'll win a trivia contest against you'll win a trivia contest against people with a line like that but that people with a line like that but that people with a line like that but that puts a lot of pressure on the people puts a lot of pressure on the people puts a lot of pressure on the people that were out there risking their that were out there risking their that were out there risking their reputations to promote this thing right reputations to promote this thing right reputations to promote this thing right this is going to this is going to have a this is going to this is going to have a this is going to this is going to have a decisive impact on the war well in a decisive impact on the war well in a decisive impact on the war well in a couple of months of bombing Japan it couple of months of bombing Japan it couple of months of bombing Japan it hasn't done squat lame said after he took over the squat lame said after he took over the air Assets in the Maran quote this air Assets in the Maran quote this air Assets in the Maran quote this outfit has been getting a lot of outfit has been getting a lot of outfit has been getting a lot of publicity without having really publicity without having really publicity without having really accomplished a hell of a lot in bombing accomplished a hell of a lot in bombing accomplished a hell of a lot in bombing results end results end results end quote so he changes strategies adopts quote so he changes strategies adopts quote so he changes strategies adopts doctrines and ideas that have been doctrines and ideas that have been doctrines and ideas that have been percolating in the US um air thinking be percolating in the US um air thinking be percolating in the US um air thinking be a good way to put it for years now all a good way to put it for years now all a good way to put it for years now all the way back to 1939 they were noticing the way back to 1939 they were noticing the way back to 1939 they were noticing that Japan might be extra vulnerable to that Japan might be extra vulnerable to that Japan might be extra vulnerable to the setting of fires from the air uh the setting of fires from the air uh the setting of fires from the air uh they do experiments in 1943 where they they do experiments in 1943 where they they do experiments in 1943 where they build mockup cities of both German and build mockup cities of both German and build mockup cities of both German and Japanese cities so they can test stuff Japanese cities so they can test stuff Japanese cities so they can test stuff out L had spent some time in Indochina out L had spent some time in Indochina out L had spent some time in Indochina with another American um air General with another American um air General with another American um air General named Chenal who was a proponent of named Chenal who was a proponent of named Chenal who was a proponent of incendiaries right using mixing incendiaries right using mixing incendiaries right using mixing incendiaries in your in your bomb loads incendiaries in your in your bomb loads incendiaries in your in your bomb loads which is a pretty common thing for most which is a pretty common thing for most which is a pretty common thing for most countries to do by the way okay uh and countries to do by the way okay uh and countries to do by the way okay uh and they burned down the Chinese city of they burned down the Chinese city of they burned down the Chinese city of Hana to deny it to the Japanese and uh Hana to deny it to the Japanese and uh Hana to deny it to the Japanese and uh and learned quite a bit about how the uh and learned quite a bit about how the uh and learned quite a bit about how the uh Asian

Asian Asian construction materials like lots of wood construction materials like lots of wood construction materials like lots of wood for example how they could best be set for example how they could best be set for example how they could best be set on fire so when lame gets to the maranas on fire so when lame gets to the maranas on fire so when lame gets to the maranas and sees the meager results and the high and sees the meager results and the high and sees the meager results and the high casualty rates that they've been casualty rates that they've been casualty rates that they've been suffering on these raids to Japan he suffering on these raids to Japan he suffering on these raids to Japan he changes things up and he he puts a bunch changes things up and he he puts a bunch changes things up and he he puts a bunch of different things in place some his of different things in place some his of different things in place some his own sorts of ideas others that he grabed own sorts of ideas others that he grabed own sorts of ideas others that he grabed from years of thinking about this from years of thinking about this from years of thinking about this amongst American amongst American amongst American thinkers and he launched uh a couple of thinkers and he launched uh a couple of thinkers and he launched uh a couple of preliminary raids using these new preliminary raids using these new preliminary raids using these new methods and then he puts it together methods and then he puts it together methods and then he puts it together looks at the data from those um smaller looks at the data from those um smaller looks at the data from those um smaller raids and then launches one in raids and then launches one in raids and then launches one in March that is what nightmares are made of it was called operation Meeting House of it was called operation Meeting House March 9th March 9th March 9th 1945 about 3 330 some b29 super 1945 about 3 330 some b29 super 1945 about 3 330 some b29 super fortresses take off from the Marianas fortresses take off from the Marianas fortresses take off from the Marianas Islands heading for Tokyo they carry a Islands heading for Tokyo they carry a Islands heading for Tokyo they carry a bomb load that it would take a thousand bomb load that it would take a thousand bomb load that it would take a thousand B17 flying fortresses the big American B17 flying fortresses the big American B17 flying fortresses the big American bomber that flew over Europe it would bomber that flew over Europe it would bomber that flew over Europe it would take a thousand of them to carry the take a thousand of them to carry the take a thousand of them to carry the bomb load of these 330 is bomb load of these 330 is bomb load of these 330 is b29 and the bomb load has been tweaked a b29 and the bomb load has been tweaked a b29 and the bomb load has been tweaked a lot more incendiaries added uh certain lot more incendiaries added uh certain lot more incendiaries added uh certain particular incendiaries with Napalm particular incendiaries with Napalm particular incendiaries with Napalm which is a relatively new development which is a relatively new development which is a relatively new development certainly in terms of deployment I think certainly in terms of deployment I think certainly in terms of deployment I think they discovered it back in they discovered it back in they discovered it back in 1942 but it's jellied gasoline kind of

1942 but it's jellied gasoline kind of 1942 but it's jellied gasoline kind of and uh like so many of the incendiaries and uh like so many of the incendiaries and uh like so many of the incendiaries used by the major powers in the second used by the major powers in the second used by the major powers in the second world war um if it splashes on you it world war um if it splashes on you it world war um if it splashes on you it just continues to burn phosphorus is just continues to burn phosphorus is just continues to burn phosphorus is like that too you can't put it out very like that too you can't put it out very like that too you can't put it out very difficult so these planes are going to difficult so these planes are going to difficult so these planes are going to come in low which is against everything come in low which is against everything come in low which is against everything they were designed to do this is a they were designed to do this is a they were designed to do this is a fantastically highlevel bomber the fantastically highlevel bomber the fantastically highlevel bomber the b29 that offers protection and all kinds b29 that offers protection and all kinds b29 that offers protection and all kinds of other benefits to bring them in low of other benefits to bring them in low of other benefits to bring them in low is to go against the design ideas but is to go against the design ideas but is to go against the design ideas but the winds over Japan are crazy the cloud the winds over Japan are crazy the cloud the winds over Japan are crazy the cloud cover is almost constant and if the cover is almost constant and if the cover is almost constant and if the plane's going at 5,000 ft instead of plane's going at 5,000 ft instead of plane's going at 5,000 ft instead of 25,000 ft you avoid all those 25,000 ft you avoid all those 25,000 ft you avoid all those problems the Americans had learned um problems the Americans had learned um problems the Americans had learned um that it is suicidal to do that in a that it is suicidal to do that in a that it is suicidal to do that in a place like Germany with their air place like Germany with their air place like Germany with their air defenses but lame believes you can do it defenses but lame believes you can do it defenses but lame believes you can do it in in in Japan especially if you do it at night Japan especially if you do it at night Japan especially if you do it at night cuz the Japanese air defenses at night cuz the Japanese air defenses at night cuz the Japanese air defenses at night are significantly worse than they are in are significantly worse than they are in are significantly worse than they are in the daytime the problem with going in at the daytime the problem with going in at the daytime the problem with going in at night is you kind of expose the fallacy night is you kind of expose the fallacy night is you kind of expose the fallacy of the basic idea that Americans of the basic idea that Americans of the basic idea that Americans celebrate with their bombing Doctrine celebrate with their bombing Doctrine celebrate with their bombing Doctrine the Americans are a Precision bomber the Americans are a Precision bomber the Americans are a Precision bomber country they have these great bomb sites country they have these great bomb sites country they have these great bomb sites and Optics and these tactics that have and Optics and these tactics that have and Optics and these tactics that have been developed to try to hit been developed to try to hit been developed to try to hit installations and factories and Railway installations and factories and Railway installations and factories and Railway yards and infrastructure and things that yards and infrastructure and things that yards and infrastructure and things that help the war effort but not Target help the war effort but not Target help the war effort but not Target civilians not bomb indiscriminately over civilians not bomb indiscriminately over civilians not bomb indiscriminately over whole areas but in the mid 20th century

whole areas but in the mid 20th century whole areas but in the mid 20th century Precision bombing in the daytime is Hit Precision bombing in the daytime is Hit Precision bombing in the daytime is Hit or Miss if you'll pardon the pun at or Miss if you'll pardon the pun at or Miss if you'll pardon the pun at night you're just kidding yourself I night you're just kidding yourself I night you're just kidding yourself I mean you're not even trying it's an area mean you're not even trying it's an area mean you're not even trying it's an area attack at night and to use incendiaries attack at night and to use incendiaries attack at night and to use incendiaries in an area attack at night is to decide in an area attack at night is to decide in an area attack at night is to decide that you want to burn down a city how do that you want to burn down a city how do that you want to burn down a city how do you measure the effectiveness what's a you measure the effectiveness what's a you measure the effectiveness what's a good outcome for you if you launch a good outcome for you if you launch a good outcome for you if you launch a bombing raid on a city with the goal of bombing raid on a city with the goal of bombing raid on a city with the goal of burning it burning it burning it down you get congratulated if you burn down you get congratulated if you burn down you get congratulated if you burn it down and there's not a country in the it down and there's not a country in the it down and there's not a country in the war that would use in their propaganda war that would use in their propaganda war that would use in their propaganda or their public statements the idea that or their public statements the idea that or their public statements the idea that they're deliberately trying to kill they're deliberately trying to kill they're deliberately trying to kill civilians so everybody has um you know a civilians so everybody has um you know a civilians so everybody has um you know a sort of a a rationale a logical Insanity sort of a a rationale a logical Insanity sort of a a rationale a logical Insanity I think we call I think we call I think we call for um why they do what they do and what for um why they do what they do and what for um why they do what they do and what they're targeting uh the Americans never they're targeting uh the Americans never they're targeting uh the Americans never ever waver from the public pronouncement ever waver from the public pronouncement ever waver from the public pronouncement that they're going after military that they're going after military that they're going after military targets and they can defend that in targets and they can defend that in targets and they can defend that in Japan because the military targets have Japan because the military targets have Japan because the military targets have all been um decentralized I mean they all been um decentralized I mean they all been um decentralized I mean they have a lot of little workshops aiding have a lot of little workshops aiding have a lot of little workshops aiding the defense effort mixed all over Tokyo the defense effort mixed all over Tokyo the defense effort mixed all over Tokyo One author that I read had called the One author that I read had called the One author that I read had called the bombing raid uh Target a classic mixed bombing raid uh Target a classic mixed bombing raid uh Target a classic mixed Target meaning that you had Target meaning that you had Target meaning that you had infrastructure industry and civilians infrastructure industry and civilians infrastructure industry and civilians with homes and schools and hospitals all with homes and schools and hospitals all with homes and schools and hospitals all mixed together but in a flammable City mixed together but in a flammable City mixed together but in a flammable City if you can set it on fire and burn if you can set it on fire and burn if you can set it on fire and burn everything down you'll get all those

everything down you'll get all those everything down you'll get all those military targets but you get everything military targets but you get everything military targets but you get everything else else else too the March 9th which will continue too the March 9th which will continue too the March 9th which will continue into March 10th almost three-hour raid into March 10th almost three-hour raid into March 10th almost three-hour raid by these more than 300 bombers takes out by these more than 300 bombers takes out by these more than 300 bombers takes out 16 square miles of Tokyo 16 square miles of Tokyo 16 square miles of Tokyo remember this is an remember this is an remember this is an experiment uh wondering how this is all experiment uh wondering how this is all experiment uh wondering how this is all going to work I mean for all L knows going to work I mean for all L knows going to work I mean for all L knows he's going to get tons of planes shot he's going to get tons of planes shot he's going to get tons of planes shot down and when the results come back in down and when the results come back in down and when the results come back in everyone's Overjoyed because this is the everyone's Overjoyed because this is the everyone's Overjoyed because this is the most effect these b29 have been able to most effect these b29 have been able to most effect these b29 have been able to have so far I think in all the raids up have so far I think in all the raids up have so far I think in all the raids up till now they'd killed less than 2,000 till now they'd killed less than 2,000 till now they'd killed less than 2,000 people in Tokyo but in this three hour people in Tokyo but in this three hour people in Tokyo but in this three hour less than three-h hour raid they kill a less than three-h hour raid they kill a less than three-h hour raid they kill a 100,000 the US strategic bombing survey said the US strategic bombing survey said that quote probably more persons lost that quote probably more persons lost that quote probably more persons lost their lives by fire in Tokyo in a 6-hour their lives by fire in Tokyo in a 6-hour their lives by fire in Tokyo in a 6-hour period than at any equivalent period of period than at any equivalent period of period than at any equivalent period of time in the history of time in the history of time in the history of man end quote let that sink in for a man end quote let that sink in for a man end quote let that sink in for a minute the worst military attack ever minute the worst military attack ever minute the worst military attack ever the most costly the most damaging and the most costly the most damaging and the most costly the most damaging and that 100,000 number is an estimate that 100,000 number is an estimate that 100,000 number is an estimate Marius B Jensen thinks it's closer to Marius B Jensen thinks it's closer to Marius B Jensen thinks it's closer to 120,000 no one knows the very records 120,000 no one knows the very records 120,000 no one knows the very records that might help shed some light on that that might help shed some light on that that might help shed some light on that burned up in the very fire that took all burned up in the very fire that took all burned up in the very fire that took all those lives uh the number of official

those lives uh the number of official those lives uh the number of official injuries of people seeking help and injuries of people seeking help and injuries of people seeking help and documented was over 40,000 many of the documented was over 40,000 many of the documented was over 40,000 many of the statistical surveys I was looking at statistical surveys I was looking at statistical surveys I was looking at triple that triple that triple that number and if you look at photographs of number and if you look at photographs of number and if you look at photographs of the 16 square miles something like 40% % the 16 square miles something like 40% % the 16 square miles something like 40% % of Tokyo's main area it's Ash I mean you of Tokyo's main area it's Ash I mean you of Tokyo's main area it's Ash I mean you have brick and stone and metal buildings have brick and stone and metal buildings have brick and stone and metal buildings sprinkled here and there and you can see sprinkled here and there and you can see sprinkled here and there and you can see the outlines of the roads but everything the outlines of the roads but everything the outlines of the roads but everything else looks like the bottom of your else looks like the bottom of your else looks like the bottom of your barbecue including the people the people inside those buildings people the people inside those buildings by the way did not find Sanctuary those by the way did not find Sanctuary those by the way did not find Sanctuary those buildings turned into buildings turned into buildings turned into ovens and the accounts that are um aail ovens and the accounts that are um aail ovens and the accounts that are um aail ailable are it I mean it sounds like ailable are it I mean it sounds like ailable are it I mean it sounds like gratuitous stuff to even mention it uh gratuitous stuff to even mention it uh gratuitous stuff to even mention it uh I've always wondered about what I always I've always wondered about what I always I've always wondered about what I always like to call the worst places to be in like to call the worst places to be in like to call the worst places to be in the world at any given time right this the world at any given time right this the world at any given time right this battlefield that disaster site whatever battlefield that disaster site whatever battlefield that disaster site whatever it might be and I always you know Darkly it might be and I always you know Darkly it might be and I always you know Darkly joke that the worst place to be is like joke that the worst place to be is like joke that the worst place to be is like a tie for a hundred different incidents a tie for a hundred different incidents a tie for a hundred different incidents but how is this not on it in his biography of General Curtis L it in his biography of General Curtis L author Warren k Zach gives you the author Warren k Zach gives you the author Warren k Zach gives you the rundown of how this goes and the weapons rundown of how this goes and the weapons rundown of how this goes and the weapons and the technical side of this right cuz and the technical side of this right cuz and the technical side of this right cuz remember the Americans are trying to remember the Americans are trying to remember the Americans are trying to figure out how to be effective with this figure out how to be effective with this figure out how to be effective with this weapon system they're trying out weapon system they're trying out weapon system they're trying out different uh mixes of Things Different

different uh mixes of Things Different different uh mixes of Things Different tactics strategies altitudes um bomb tactics strategies altitudes um bomb tactics strategies altitudes um bomb loads and and the composition thereof loads and and the composition thereof loads and and the composition thereof and kak writes quote each plane would and kak writes quote each plane would and kak writes quote each plane would fly individually in three staggered fly individually in three staggered fly individually in three staggered lines between 5,000 and 7,000 ,000 ft lines between 5,000 and 7,000 ,000 ft lines between 5,000 and 7,000 ,000 ft the first planes to take off would fly the first planes to take off would fly the first planes to take off would fly at slower speeds in order for the later at slower speeds in order for the later at slower speeds in order for the later planes to catch up it would be unlike planes to catch up it would be unlike planes to catch up it would be unlike anything yet seen in the war three long anything yet seen in the war three long anything yet seen in the war three long lines of bombers coming in at very low lines of bombers coming in at very low lines of bombers coming in at very low altitude the bombadiers job would be altitude the bombadiers job would be altitude the bombadiers job would be greatly simplified because a small group greatly simplified because a small group greatly simplified because a small group of planes coming from a different of planes coming from a different of planes coming from a different direction would drop incendiaries in the direction would drop incendiaries in the direction would drop incendiaries in the front and back of the target Zone before front and back of the target Zone before front and back of the target Zone before the lines of bombers arrived similar to the lines of bombers arrived similar to the lines of bombers arrived similar to lighting up both ends of a football lighting up both ends of a football lighting up both ends of a football field at night the planes coming after field at night the planes coming after field at night the planes coming after them from another direction would see them from another direction would see them from another direction would see the fires that the lead bombers had set the fires that the lead bombers had set the fires that the lead bombers had set and then bomb the area in between the and then bomb the area in between the and then bomb the area in between the plan he writes was brilliant in its plan he writes was brilliant in its plan he writes was brilliant in its Simplicity the human cost he says would Simplicity the human cost he says would Simplicity the human cost he says would be determined later end quote he be determined later end quote he be determined later end quote he continues continues continues quote lame decided to drop E46 clusters quote lame decided to drop E46 clusters quote lame decided to drop E46 clusters meaning cluster bomblets the witnesses meaning cluster bomblets the witnesses meaning cluster bomblets the witnesses said they look like um bananas all said they look like um bananas all said they look like um bananas all clustered on a tree and then when they clustered on a tree and then when they clustered on a tree and then when they were dropped they would all the bananas were dropped they would all the bananas were dropped they would all the bananas would split off separately I'm sorry he would split off separately I'm sorry he would split off separately I'm sorry he says lame decided to drop E46 clusters says lame decided to drop E46 clusters says lame decided to drop E46 clusters that would explode at 2,000 ft above the that would explode at 2,000 ft above the that would explode at 2,000 ft above the ground each cluster would release 38 ground each cluster would release 38 ground each cluster would release 38 incendiary bombs of Napalm and

incendiary bombs of Napalm and incendiary bombs of Napalm and phosphorus creating a rain of fire over phosphorus creating a rain of fire over phosphorus creating a rain of fire over the city in all the city in all the city in all 8,519 clusters would be dropped 8,519 clusters would be dropped 8,519 clusters would be dropped releasing releasing releasing 496 th000 individual cylinders weighing 496 th000 individual cylinders weighing 496 th000 individual cylinders weighing 6.2 lb each resulting in 6.2 lb each resulting in 6.2 lb each resulting in 1665 tons of incendiaries to be dropped 1665 tons of incendiaries to be dropped 1665 tons of incendiaries to be dropped on Tokyo that night end on Tokyo that night end on Tokyo that night end quote if there's one thing that has been quote if there's one thing that has been quote if there's one thing that has been learned about strategic bombing to this learned about strategic bombing to this learned about strategic bombing to this point in the war is that sometimes you point in the war is that sometimes you point in the war is that sometimes you get lucky or unlucky depending on whose get lucky or unlucky depending on whose get lucky or unlucky depending on whose point of view we're looking at this from point of view we're looking at this from point of view we're looking at this from sometimes the climatic conditions are sometimes the climatic conditions are sometimes the climatic conditions are perfect sometimes you have some wind in perfect sometimes you have some wind in perfect sometimes you have some wind in the region if everything were to the region if everything were to the region if everything were to conspire against the civilians in the conspire against the civilians in the conspire against the civilians in the city the bombs mixed with the wind mixed city the bombs mixed with the wind mixed city the bombs mixed with the wind mixed with the climate and all that could with the climate and all that could with the climate and all that could create something called a create something called a create something called a firestorm this happened in Germany firestorm this happened in Germany firestorm this happened in Germany several times Dresden we just mentioned several times Dresden we just mentioned several times Dresden we just mentioned hamburg's a famous one and what that hamburg's a famous one and what that hamburg's a famous one and what that does is um take the casualties from does is um take the casualties from does is um take the casualties from something that might be a 6,000 or an something that might be a 6,000 or an something that might be a 6,000 or an 8,000 or a 12,000 dead civilian Knight 8,000 or a 12,000 dead civilian Knight 8,000 or a 12,000 dead civilian Knight which sounds horrible and converted into which sounds horrible and converted into which sounds horrible and converted into something amplify it into something like something amplify it into something like something amplify it into something like a 25,000 30 or 35,000 dead civilian a 25,000 30 or 35,000 dead civilian a 25,000 30 or 35,000 dead civilian Knight in his book War military

Knight in his book War military Knight in his book War military historian gwy Dyer had said that if the historian gwy Dyer had said that if the historian gwy Dyer had said that if the British bomber command could reliably British bomber command could reliably British bomber command could reliably create these firestorms you know create these firestorms you know create these firestorms you know whenever they wanted to the war would be whenever they wanted to the war would be whenever they wanted to the war would be over in six months over in six months over in six months that sounds like an opinion to me but uh that sounds like an opinion to me but uh that sounds like an opinion to me but uh it's an interesting idea being able to it's an interesting idea being able to it's an interesting idea being able to create these equivalents of a natural create these equivalents of a natural create these equivalents of a natural disaster right a a global weather disaster right a a global weather disaster right a a global weather oriented disaster for example a flood um oriented disaster for example a flood um oriented disaster for example a flood um a volcanic eruption a tsunami something a volcanic eruption a tsunami something a volcanic eruption a tsunami something like that right a freeze whatever it like that right a freeze whatever it like that right a freeze whatever it might be um to be able to do this as a might be um to be able to do this as a might be um to be able to do this as a weapon of weapon of weapon of War well it's interesting to speculate War well it's interesting to speculate War well it's interesting to speculate what that might mean for the war effort what that might mean for the war effort what that might mean for the war effort and that's exactly what people and that's exactly what people and that's exactly what people do I mean how do you order a raid that do I mean how do you order a raid that do I mean how do you order a raid that might kill a 100,000 might kill a 100,000 might kill a 100,000 people how does one live with people how does one live with people how does one live with oneself the way you do it though is by oneself the way you do it though is by oneself the way you do it though is by telling yourself that you saved even telling yourself that you saved even telling yourself that you saved even more than more than more than that now as an aside here I've done more that now as an aside here I've done more that now as an aside here I've done more than 10 hours of talking about The than 10 hours of talking about The than 10 hours of talking about The Logical Logical Logical Insanity uh the more moral logic of Insanity uh the more moral logic of Insanity uh the more moral logic of strategic bombing as the proponents of strategic bombing as the proponents of strategic bombing as the proponents of that theory see it and I would suggest that theory see it and I would suggest that theory see it and I would suggest that the jury is still out uh nothing that the jury is still out uh nothing that the jury is still out uh nothing has been decided yet on whether the has been decided yet on whether the has been decided yet on whether the people who suggest that a shorter war people who suggest that a shorter war people who suggest that a shorter war that is nastier is actually more that is nastier is actually more that is nastier is actually more merciful in humanitarian than a longer merciful in humanitarian than a longer merciful in humanitarian than a longer war that isn't right the the idea being

war that isn't right the the idea being war that isn't right the the idea being throwing the monkey wrench into the throwing the monkey wrench into the throwing the monkey wrench into the human being lawnmower right that human being lawnmower right that human being lawnmower right that anything that short circuits the uh ever anything that short circuits the uh ever anything that short circuits the uh ever functioning conveyor belt of death here functioning conveyor belt of death here functioning conveyor belt of death here is the greater good in the minds of is the greater good in the minds of is the greater good in the minds of people who can manage to sleep at night people who can manage to sleep at night people who can manage to sleep at night ordering the deaths of that many ordering the deaths of that many ordering the deaths of that many people lame said over and over as did a people lame said over and over as did a people lame said over and over as did a lot of the people he worked with that lot of the people he worked with that lot of the people he worked with that this was going to shorten the war and this was going to shorten the war and this was going to shorten the war and that shortening the war was the most that shortening the war was the most that shortening the war was the most important important important thing it is so hard to not judge this thing it is so hard to not judge this thing it is so hard to not judge this sort of action by the standards of sort of action by the standards of sort of action by the standards of now but what I constantly try to remind now but what I constantly try to remind now but what I constantly try to remind myself is that myself is that myself is that 1945 by then they're not operating by 1945 by then they're not operating by 1945 by then they're not operating by our moral standards anymore there's six our moral standards anymore there's six our moral standards anymore there's six years into Total War a war of survival years into Total War a war of survival years into Total War a war of survival extermination the the very highest extermination the the very highest extermination the the very highest possible stakes and all sorts of possible stakes and all sorts of possible stakes and all sorts of terrible things done up until this point terrible things done up until this point terrible things done up until this point I mean how do you order to burn a I mean how do you order to burn a I mean how do you order to burn a 100,000 people well you know a little at 100,000 people well you know a little at 100,000 people well you know a little at a time you work your way up to it we a time you work your way up to it we a time you work your way up to it we shouldn't forget that the side that's shouldn't forget that the side that's shouldn't forget that the side that's being bombed here were some of the Earth being bombed here were some of the Earth being bombed here were some of the Earth early proponents of bombing cities I early proponents of bombing cities I early proponents of bombing cities I mean the Germans did it to Warsaw they mean the Germans did it to Warsaw they mean the Germans did it to Warsaw they did it to Rotterdam they did it to did it to Rotterdam they did it to did it to Rotterdam they did it to Britain for nine solid heavy months and Britain for nine solid heavy months and Britain for nine solid heavy months and killed more than 40,000 non-combatants killed more than 40,000 non-combatants killed more than 40,000 non-combatants in Britain earlier in the war in 1945 in Britain earlier in the war in 1945 in Britain earlier in the war in 1945 they're launching V2 rockets at Britain they're launching V2 rockets at Britain they're launching V2 rockets at Britain killing more than or some somewhere killing more than or some somewhere killing more than or some somewhere around 10,000 people with the V2s add

around 10,000 people with the V2s add around 10,000 people with the V2s add the v1s it is more than 10,000 people so the v1s it is more than 10,000 people so the v1s it is more than 10,000 people so nothing has stopped the Japanese were nothing has stopped the Japanese were nothing has stopped the Japanese were bombing Chinese cities and killing bombing Chinese cities and killing bombing Chinese cities and killing civilians before the second world war civilians before the second world war civilians before the second world war even started for most countries even started for most countries even started for most countries they were dropping let's remember I mean they were dropping let's remember I mean they were dropping let's remember I mean this is a war where the Japanese are are this is a war where the Japanese are are this is a war where the Japanese are are infecting fleas with the plague VI the infecting fleas with the plague VI the infecting fleas with the plague VI the plague basilis and then dropping that on plague basilis and then dropping that on plague basilis and then dropping that on Chinese cities from the air to see what Chinese cities from the air to see what Chinese cities from the air to see what happens when someone says how can you happens when someone says how can you happens when someone says how can you drop incendiaries that kill 100,000 drop incendiaries that kill 100,000 drop incendiaries that kill 100,000 civilians you say you work up to civilians you say you work up to civilians you say you work up to it by it by it by 1945 uh the war is at a kind of an 1945 uh the war is at a kind of an 1945 uh the war is at a kind of an insane sort of level but nobody feels insane sort of level but nobody feels insane sort of level but nobody feels that all of a sudden killing a 100,000 that all of a sudden killing a 100,000 that all of a sudden killing a 100,000 people in Tokyo is you know tons worse people in Tokyo is you know tons worse people in Tokyo is you know tons worse than killing 60,000 in Hamburg or 35,000 than killing 60,000 in Hamburg or 35,000 than killing 60,000 in Hamburg or 35,000 in Dresden see what happens when when it in Dresden see what happens when when it in Dresden see what happens when when it gets insane we're in Crazy territory by gets insane we're in Crazy territory by gets insane we're in Crazy territory by 1945 it's easy to forget too that these 1945 it's easy to forget too that these 1945 it's easy to forget too that these numbers which are impossible to numbers which are impossible to numbers which are impossible to conceptualize involve real people with conceptualize involve real people with conceptualize involve real people with human experiences on the ground of the human experiences on the ground of the human experiences on the ground of the sort that are unimaginable listen to the sort that are unimaginable listen to the sort that are unimaginable listen to the eyewitness accounts or what the eyewitness accounts or what the eyewitness accounts or what the historians have to historians have to historians have to say historian Conrad C Crane in his book say historian Conrad C Crane in his book say historian Conrad C Crane in his book bombs cities and civilians writes about bombs cities and civilians writes about bombs cities and civilians writes about operation Meeting House the March 9th operation Meeting House the March 9th operation Meeting House the March 9th 10th Raid on Japan and says 10th Raid on Japan and says 10th Raid on Japan and says quote the selected zone of attack quote the selected zone of attack quote the selected zone of attack covered six important industrial targets covered six important industrial targets covered six important industrial targets and numerous smaller factories railroad

and numerous smaller factories railroad and numerous smaller factories railroad yards home Industries and cable plants yards home Industries and cable plants yards home Industries and cable plants but it also included one of the most but it also included one of the most but it also included one of the most densely populated areas in the world and densely populated areas in the world and densely populated areas in the world and quote he goes on to say quote he goes on to say quote he goes on to say 135,000 people per square mile he 135,000 people per square mile he 135,000 people per square mile he continues quote before operation meeting continues quote before operation meeting continues quote before operation meeting house was over between 90,000 and house was over between 90,000 and house was over between 90,000 and 100,000 people had been killed most died 100,000 people had been killed most died 100,000 people had been killed most died horribly as intense heat from The horribly as intense heat from The horribly as intense heat from The Firestorm consumed the oxygen boiled Firestorm consumed the oxygen boiled Firestorm consumed the oxygen boiled water in canals and sent liquid glass water in canals and sent liquid glass water in canals and sent liquid glass rolling down the streets thousands rolling down the streets thousands rolling down the streets thousands suffocated in shelters or Parks panicked suffocated in shelters or Parks panicked suffocated in shelters or Parks panicked crowds crushed victims who had fallen in crowds crushed victims who had fallen in crowds crushed victims who had fallen in the streets as they surged towards the streets as they surged towards the streets as they surged towards waterways to escape the Flames perhaps waterways to escape the Flames perhaps waterways to escape the Flames perhaps the most terrible incident he writes the most terrible incident he writes the most terrible incident he writes came when one b29 dropped seven tons of came when one b29 dropped seven tons of came when one b29 dropped seven tons of incendiaries on and around the crowded I incendiaries on and around the crowded I incendiaries on and around the crowded I believe it is cocoy Bridge hundreds of believe it is cocoy Bridge hundreds of believe it is cocoy Bridge hundreds of people were turned into fiery torches people were turned into fiery torches people were turned into fiery torches and quote splashed into the river Below and quote splashed into the river Below and quote splashed into the river Below in sizzling hisses end quote that's from in sizzling hisses end quote that's from in sizzling hisses end quote that's from an eyewitness one writer crane says an eyewitness one writer crane says an eyewitness one writer crane says described the falling bodies as resem described the falling bodies as resem described the falling bodies as resem resembling tent caterpillars that had resembling tent caterpillars that had resembling tent caterpillars that had been burned out of a tree tail Gunners been burned out of a tree tail Gunners been burned out of a tree tail Gunners crane says were sickened by the sight of crane says were sickened by the sight of crane says were sickened by the sight of hundreds of people burning to death in hundreds of people burning to death in hundreds of people burning to death in flaming Napalm on the surface of the flaming Napalm on the surface of the flaming Napalm on the surface of the sumida river a doctor who observed the sumida river a doctor who observed the sumida river a doctor who observed the Carnage there later said quote you Carnage there later said quote you Carnage there later said quote you couldn't even tell if the objects couldn't even tell if the objects couldn't even tell if the objects floating by were arms and legs or pieces

floating by were arms and legs or pieces floating by were arms and legs or pieces of burnt wood end quote crane then says of burnt wood end quote crane then says of burnt wood end quote crane then says quote b29 Crews fought super heated up quote b29 Crews fought super heated up quote b29 Crews fought super heated up drafts that destroyed at least 10 drafts that destroyed at least 10 drafts that destroyed at least 10 aircraft and wore oxygen masks to avoid aircraft and wore oxygen masks to avoid aircraft and wore oxygen masks to avoid vomiting from the stench of burning vomiting from the stench of burning vomiting from the stench of burning flesh by the time the attack had ended flesh by the time the attack had ended flesh by the time the attack had ended almost 16 square miles of Tokyo were almost 16 square miles of Tokyo were almost 16 square miles of Tokyo were burned out and over 1 million people burned out and over 1 million people burned out and over 1 million people were were were homeless end homeless end homeless end quote Gwen Dyer had quoted an eyewitness quote Gwen Dyer had quoted an eyewitness quote Gwen Dyer had quoted an eyewitness of one of the fire storms in uh Germany of one of the fire storms in uh Germany of one of the fire storms in uh Germany who had said that the sound that you who had said that the sound that you who had said that the sound that you hear during it was like a an old church hear during it was like a an old church hear during it was like a an old church organ that was very loud and playing all organ that was very loud and playing all organ that was very loud and playing all the notes at the notes at the notes at once as we said generally the conditions once as we said generally the conditions once as we said generally the conditions um have to contribute to create these um have to contribute to create these um have to contribute to create these sorts of sorts of sorts of firestorms uh and there was already firestorms uh and there was already firestorms uh and there was already something like a 30 gusting maybe to 40 something like a 30 gusting maybe to 40 something like a 30 gusting maybe to 40 m hour wind in Tokyo uh when this m hour wind in Tokyo uh when this m hour wind in Tokyo uh when this happens so that makes it a fire danger happens so that makes it a fire danger happens so that makes it a fire danger already and Tokyo was known as a city already and Tokyo was known as a city already and Tokyo was known as a city prone to fires and Japan had a problem prone to fires and Japan had a problem prone to fires and Japan had a problem with that Tokyo had a very specific with that Tokyo had a very specific with that Tokyo had a very specific problem with that that's why the US had problem with that that's why the US had problem with that that's why the US had identified it years before as prone to identified it years before as prone to identified it years before as prone to incendiaries and it really incendiaries and it really incendiaries and it really Burns it creates its own weather uh just Burns it creates its own weather uh just Burns it creates its own weather uh just like the firestorms in Dresden and in like the firestorms in Dresden and in like the firestorms in Dresden and in Hamburg where the winds start turning Hamburg where the winds start turning Hamburg where the winds start turning into almost a tornado and you read into almost a tornado and you read into almost a tornado and you read account after account of people being

account after account of people being account after account of people being Swept Away by an invisible hand of wind Swept Away by an invisible hand of wind Swept Away by an invisible hand of wind that just pulls them away and it's it's that just pulls them away and it's it's that just pulls them away and it's it's so bad that you can't see anything so bad that you can't see anything so bad that you can't see anything because it's blowing Pebbles and rocks because it's blowing Pebbles and rocks because it's blowing Pebbles and rocks into your face the accounts from uh some of these face the accounts from uh some of these German attacks talk about the asphalt German attacks talk about the asphalt German attacks talk about the asphalt melting and that happens everywhere so melting and that happens everywhere so melting and that happens everywhere so you try to run down the streets and you you try to run down the streets and you you try to run down the streets and you find yourself sinking in molten asphalt find yourself sinking in molten asphalt find yourself sinking in molten asphalt uh they talk about the wind uh sucking uh they talk about the wind uh sucking uh they talk about the wind uh sucking all the oxygen out of things you'll find all the oxygen out of things you'll find all the oxygen out of things you'll find these um air raid shelters in Germany these um air raid shelters in Germany these um air raid shelters in Germany where everybody's just suffocated where everybody's just suffocated where everybody's just suffocated the temperature reaches 1,800 the temperature reaches 1,800 the temperature reaches 1,800 de in the center of some of this fire de in the center of some of this fire de in the center of some of this fire area and people just start exploding in area and people just start exploding in area and people just start exploding in flame you'll read over and over about flame you'll read over and over about flame you'll read over and over about people just like match sticks explode a people just like match sticks explode a people just like match sticks explode a lot of people who found them their their lot of people who found them their their lot of people who found them their their Avenue of Escape cut off in every Avenue of Escape cut off in every Avenue of Escape cut off in every direction just sat down in the street um direction just sat down in the street um direction just sat down in the street um one of my sources said faced uh the one of my sources said faced uh the one of my sources said faced uh the Imperial Palace and waited to die and Imperial Palace and waited to die and Imperial Palace and waited to die and were found there the photographs were found there the photographs were found there the photographs are there are not many but it and the are there are not many but it and the are there are not many but it and the photographs to be honest the photographs photographs to be honest the photographs photographs to be honest the photographs of the bombing uh bodies in in Europe of the bombing uh bodies in in Europe of the bombing uh bodies in in Europe too are hard to handle we're talking too are hard to handle we're talking too are hard to handle we're talking about large piles of bodies and in the about large piles of bodies and in the about large piles of bodies and in the Tokyo raid they're they're all burned Tokyo raid they're they're all burned Tokyo raid they're they're all burned carbonized in the rising son author John carbonized in the rising son author John carbonized in the rising son author John Tolen follows one person who lived Tolen follows one person who lived Tolen follows one person who lived through this a father bundles his four through this a father bundles his four through this a father bundles his four children and his wife up in uh something

children and his wife up in uh something children and his wife up in uh something that he hopes will protect them from the that he hopes will protect them from the that he hopes will protect them from the fire and they take off trying to get fire and they take off trying to get fire and they take off trying to get away and to writes quote they pushed away and to writes quote they pushed away and to writes quote they pushed their way across the bridge to escape their way across the bridge to escape their way across the bridge to escape the Roaring Blaze that was pursuing them the Roaring Blaze that was pursuing them the Roaring Blaze that was pursuing them quote endquote like a wild animal a quote endquote like a wild animal a quote endquote like a wild animal a strong wind sucked into the Flames swept strong wind sucked into the Flames swept strong wind sucked into the Flames swept a stinging storm of Pebbles into their a stinging storm of Pebbles into their a stinging storm of Pebbles into their faces they turned back to the Gale and faces they turned back to the Gale and faces they turned back to the Gale and plotted slowly away from the plotted slowly away from the plotted slowly away from the conflagration fascinated at the sight of conflagration fascinated at the sight of conflagration fascinated at the sight of oil drums rocketing through the roof of oil drums rocketing through the roof of oil drums rocketing through the roof of a cable Factory near the river and a cable Factory near the river and a cable Factory near the river and exploding into Balls of Fire 100 feet in exploding into Balls of Fire 100 feet in exploding into Balls of Fire 100 feet in the air the center of Tokyo he writes the air the center of Tokyo he writes the air the center of Tokyo he writes was as incandescent as the sun billowing was as incandescent as the sun billowing was as incandescent as the sun billowing clouds of smoke surged up illuminated clouds of smoke surged up illuminated clouds of smoke surged up illuminated below by orange Flames thousands below by orange Flames thousands below by orange Flames thousands crouched terrified in their wooden crouched terrified in their wooden crouched terrified in their wooden shelters where they would be roasted shelters where they would be roasted shelters where they would be roasted alive end alive end alive end quote an author whose name I absolutely quote an author whose name I absolutely quote an author whose name I absolutely can't pronounce in a thousand apologies can't pronounce in a thousand apologies can't pronounce in a thousand apologies I couldn't find anything online hoo I couldn't find anything online hoo I couldn't find anything online hoo Edwin I'm going to go with uh he wrote a Edwin I'm going to go with uh he wrote a Edwin I'm going to go with uh he wrote a book um the night Tokyo burned many book um the night Tokyo burned many book um the night Tokyo burned many years ago where he took some eyewitness years ago where he took some eyewitness years ago where he took some eyewitness accounts and put them together uh of accounts and put them together uh of accounts and put them together uh of people who have visualized something people who have visualized something people who have visualized something that I don't think any of us can that I don't think any of us can that I don't think any of us can imagine it's both fascinating and imagine it's both fascinating and imagine it's both fascinating and repellent at the same time so he has one eyewitness time so he has one eyewitness encountered by a captain um the author encountered by a captain um the author encountered by a captain um the author says they had just gone to this bridge says they had just gone to this bridge says they had just gone to this bridge to check out conditions there uh because to check out conditions there uh because to check out conditions there uh because people were running towards water people were running towards water people were running towards water wherever they could find it and the

wherever they could find it and the wherever they could find it and the author says quote and there they were author says quote and there they were author says quote and there they were stunned by by the sight of countless stunned by by the sight of countless stunned by by the sight of countless dead bodies that lay everywhere around dead bodies that lay everywhere around dead bodies that lay everywhere around they were in a forest of corpses in they were in a forest of corpses in they were in a forest of corpses in every direction bodies were crumpled so every direction bodies were crumpled so every direction bodies were crumpled so closely together that they must have closely together that they must have closely together that they must have been touching when they died they lay been touching when they died they lay been touching when they died they lay there now mute evidence of the fury of there now mute evidence of the fury of there now mute evidence of the fury of the American attack on Tokyo's civil the American attack on Tokyo's civil the American attack on Tokyo's civil population the captain looked out over population the captain looked out over population the captain looked out over the ichido river and shook his head what the ichido river and shook his head what the ichido river and shook his head what a pitiful situation it was so appalling a pitiful situation it was so appalling a pitiful situation it was so appalling that it exceeded the imagination's that it exceeded the imagination's that it exceeded the imagination's ability to deal with it what could ability to deal with it what could ability to deal with it what could Rescuers do in a situation like this Rescuers do in a situation like this Rescuers do in a situation like this there was no one to rescue touch one of there was no one to rescue touch one of there was no one to rescue touch one of the roasted bodies and the flesh would the roasted bodies and the flesh would the roasted bodies and the flesh would crumble in the hand Humanity reduced to crumble in the hand Humanity reduced to crumble in the hand Humanity reduced to the essential turned into carbon end the essential turned into carbon end the essential turned into carbon end quote the account continues and this is quote the account continues and this is quote the account continues and this is not to be gratuitous this is to give us not to be gratuitous this is to give us not to be gratuitous this is to give us an an an idea of exactly what Mankind's idea of exactly what Mankind's idea of exactly what Mankind's capabilities what our human capabilities what our human capabilities what our human capabilities have capabilities have capabilities have finally achieved what levels now of finally achieved what levels now of finally achieved what levels now of damage we can do this is the sort of damage we can do this is the sort of damage we can do this is the sort of thing you read about after a giant you thing you read about after a giant you thing you read about after a giant you know Act of God natural disaster type know Act of God natural disaster type know Act of God natural disaster type thing not something that someone thing not something that someone thing not something that someone targeted at targeted at targeted at someone he then talks about the captain someone he then talks about the captain someone he then talks about the captain looking at the bank of the river and looking at the bank of the river and looking at the bank of the river and seeing how the waves that had been wind seeing how the waves that had been wind seeing how the waves that had been wind driven had pushed all of the corpses he

driven had pushed all of the corpses he driven had pushed all of the corpses he says tens of thousands of of them up says tens of thousands of of them up says tens of thousands of of them up against the beach and stacked them like against the beach and stacked them like against the beach and stacked them like cordwood it was this weird sight when you read the sight when you read the accounts of operation meeting house and accounts of operation meeting house and accounts of operation meeting house and the result afterwards it sounds like uh the result afterwards it sounds like uh the result afterwards it sounds like uh The American Secretary of War Henry The American Secretary of War Henry The American Secretary of War Henry Stimson and the general uh of the army Stimson and the general uh of the army Stimson and the general uh of the army George Marshall were both quite bothered George Marshall were both quite bothered George Marshall were both quite bothered by the civilian casualties and the by the civilian casualties and the by the civilian casualties and the bombings in Europe and the bombings in Europe and the bombings in Europe and the Pacific but they seem to be among a very Pacific but they seem to be among a very Pacific but they seem to be among a very small group of people who small group of people who small group of people who are not only is this considered to be a are not only is this considered to be a are not only is this considered to be a better than expected result but lame better than expected result but lame better than expected result but lame will turn the bombers around two days will turn the bombers around two days will turn the bombers around two days later and do it again and then turn him later and do it again and then turn him later and do it again and then turn him around a couple days after that and do around a couple days after that and do around a couple days after that and do him again and will continue to firebomb him again and will continue to firebomb him again and will continue to firebomb Japanese cities until he runs out of Japanese cities until he runs out of Japanese cities until he runs out of incendiaries to use on them and there's incendiaries to use on them and there's incendiaries to use on them and there's a temporary lull while they try to you a temporary lull while they try to you a temporary lull while they try to you know get more to his Planes they had know get more to his Planes they had know get more to his Planes they had underestimated how many bombing runs underestimated how many bombing runs underestimated how many bombing runs that he could do but he's a task master that he could do but he's a task master that he could do but he's a task master and he's a guy who gets things and he's a guy who gets things and he's a guy who gets things done but he's also very blunt about what done but he's also very blunt about what done but he's also very blunt about what war especially Modern War mid 20th war especially Modern War mid 20th war especially Modern War mid 20th century War boils down century War boils down century War boils down to and he's um again I said earlier a to and he's um again I said earlier a to and he's um again I said earlier a caricature but not a caricature like a caricature but not a caricature like a caricature but not a caricature like a cartoon character a caricature like a cartoon character a caricature like a cartoon character a caricature like a two-dimensional figure that doesn't seem

two-dimensional figure that doesn't seem two-dimensional figure that doesn't seem like a fully fled out human being like a fully fled out human being like a fully fled out human being because the caricature isn't but the because the caricature isn't but the because the caricature isn't but the caricature said about the bombing in caricature said about the bombing in caricature said about the bombing in Tokyo Tokyo Tokyo quote this is quoted in Conrad Crane's quote this is quoted in Conrad Crane's quote this is quoted in Conrad Crane's book by the way quote we were going book by the way quote we were going book by the way quote we were going after military targets no point in after military targets no point in after military targets no point in slaughtering civilians for the mere sake slaughtering civilians for the mere sake slaughtering civilians for the mere sake of Slaughter of course there's a pretty of Slaughter of course there's a pretty of Slaughter of course there's a pretty thin veneer in Japan but the veneer was thin veneer in Japan but the veneer was thin veneer in Japan but the veneer was there it was their system of dispersal there it was their system of dispersal there it was their system of dispersal of Industry all you had to do was visit of Industry all you had to do was visit of Industry all you had to do was visit one of those targets after we'd roasted one of those targets after we'd roasted one of those targets after we'd roasted it and see the ruins of a multitude of it and see the ruins of a multitude of it and see the ruins of a multitude of tiny houses with a drill press sticking tiny houses with a drill press sticking tiny houses with a drill press sticking up through the wreckage of every home up through the wreckage of every home up through the wreckage of every home the entire population got into the act the entire population got into the act the entire population got into the act and worked to make those airplanes or and worked to make those airplanes or and worked to make those airplanes or Munitions of war men women children we Munitions of war men women children we Munitions of war men women children we knew we were going to kill a lot of knew we were going to kill a lot of knew we were going to kill a lot of women and kids when we burned that town women and kids when we burned that town women and kids when we burned that town had to be done end had to be done end had to be done end quote so how do people that order those quote so how do people that order those quote so how do people that order those kind of things done sleep at night kind of things done sleep at night kind of things done sleep at night well maybe if they have a problem well maybe if they have a problem well maybe if they have a problem sleeping at night if they don't figure sleeping at night if they don't figure sleeping at night if they don't figure out some way to end this whole thing by out some way to end this whole thing by out some way to end this whole thing by throwing a monkey wrench into the throwing a monkey wrench into the throwing a monkey wrench into the assembly line of death in Warren kak's assembly line of death in Warren kak's assembly line of death in Warren kak's biography L he describes a letter that biography L he describes a letter that biography L he describes a letter that lame described in his Memoirs a sticking lame described in his Memoirs a sticking lame described in his Memoirs a sticking in his head something he thought about in his head something he thought about in his head something he thought about and uh kak says quote in his Memoirs and uh kak says quote in his Memoirs and uh kak says quote in his Memoirs lame makes more than one reference to a lame makes more than one reference to a lame makes more than one reference to a letter that continually weighed on him

letter that continually weighed on him letter that continually weighed on him now quoting the letter quote dear now quoting the letter quote dear now quoting the letter quote dear General this is the anniversary of my General this is the anniversary of my General this is the anniversary of my son Nikki being killed over Hamburg son Nikki being killed over Hamburg son Nikki being killed over Hamburg Berlin Tokyo you killed him General I Berlin Tokyo you killed him General I Berlin Tokyo you killed him General I just wanted to remind you of it I'm just wanted to remind you of it I'm just wanted to remind you of it I'm going to send you a letter each year on going to send you a letter each year on going to send you a letter each year on the same date the anniversary of his the same date the anniversary of his the same date the anniversary of his death to remind you end quote kak then death to remind you end quote kak then death to remind you end quote kak then says this quote L's only way to stop says this quote L's only way to stop says this quote L's only way to stop these types of letters from coming was these types of letters from coming was these types of letters from coming was to end the war he rationalized the to end the war he rationalized the to end the war he rationalized the potentially significant loss of Japanese potentially significant loss of Japanese potentially significant loss of Japanese life on the ground with the following life on the ground with the following life on the ground with the following logic Marines were suffering horrendous logic Marines were suffering horrendous logic Marines were suffering horrendous casualties on eima in a slow agonizing casualties on eima in a slow agonizing casualties on eima in a slow agonizing fighting evidence that the Japanese were fighting evidence that the Japanese were fighting evidence that the Japanese were becoming even more ferocious the closer becoming even more ferocious the closer becoming even more ferocious the closer Americans came to the home islands and Americans came to the home islands and Americans came to the home islands and unlike the us or German industry which unlike the us or German industry which unlike the us or German industry which was Factory centered Japanese was Factory centered Japanese was Factory centered Japanese manufacturing was greatly decentralized manufacturing was greatly decentralized manufacturing was greatly decentralized individual parts for airplanes tanks and individual parts for airplanes tanks and individual parts for airplanes tanks and bombs were produced in homes and in bombs were produced in homes and in bombs were produced in homes and in backyard guards quote this is L talking backyard guards quote this is L talking backyard guards quote this is L talking now no matter how you slice it you're now no matter how you slice it you're now no matter how you slice it you're going to kill an awful lot of civilians going to kill an awful lot of civilians going to kill an awful lot of civilians thousands and thousands but if you don't thousands and thousands but if you don't thousands and thousands but if you don't destroy Japan's capacity to wage war destroy Japan's capacity to wage war destroy Japan's capacity to wage war we're going to have to invade Japan and we're going to have to invade Japan and we're going to have to invade Japan and how many Americans will be killed in an how many Americans will be killed in an how many Americans will be killed in an invasion of Japan 500,000 seems to be invasion of Japan 500,000 seems to be invasion of Japan 500,000 seems to be the lowest estimate some say a million the lowest estimate some say a million the lowest estimate some say a million we're at war with Japan we were attacked we're at war with Japan we were attacked we're at war with Japan we were attacked by Japan end quote

1939 pretty much every major country in 1939 pretty much every major country in the second world war decried the idea of the second world war decried the idea of the second world war decried the idea of bombing bombing bombing civilians by civilians by civilians by 1945 none of those countries have a 1945 none of those countries have a 1945 none of those countries have a moral leg to stand on anymore because moral leg to stand on anymore because moral leg to stand on anymore because either they've already done it either they've already done it either they've already done it themselves or they've done things you themselves or they've done things you themselves or they've done things you might even see and call might even see and call might even see and call worse now it is unfair to judge the worse now it is unfair to judge the worse now it is unfair to judge the moral sensibilities of a guy like Curtis moral sensibilities of a guy like Curtis moral sensibilities of a guy like Curtis lame lame lame in a vacuum I mean you have to really in a vacuum I mean you have to really in a vacuum I mean you have to really try to figure out where he was on the try to figure out where he was on the try to figure out where he was on the scale of his age and day how did the scale of his age and day how did the scale of his age and day how did the general public in the United States feel general public in the United States feel general public in the United States feel about about about this they overwhelmingly supported it this they overwhelmingly supported it this they overwhelmingly supported it just like the British public just like the British public just like the British public overwhelmingly supported their bombing overwhelmingly supported their bombing overwhelmingly supported their bombing campaigns just like the German public campaigns just like the German public campaigns just like the German public overwhelmingly supported their bombing overwhelmingly supported their bombing overwhelmingly supported their bombing campaigns just like the Japanese public campaigns just like the Japanese public campaigns just like the Japanese public overwhelmingly supported their bombing overwhelmingly supported their bombing overwhelmingly supported their bombing campaigns all of these populations of course are all of these populations of course are having their information constantly having their information constantly having their information constantly pruned and redacted and um filtered so pruned and redacted and um filtered so pruned and redacted and um filtered so that they just get what the government that they just get what the government that they just get what the government wants them to see and they're being wants them to see and they're being wants them to see and they're being heavily propagandized to feel a certain heavily propagandized to feel a certain heavily propagandized to feel a certain way and adopt a certain view that's way and adopt a certain view that's way and adopt a certain view that's uniform it's it's happening in every uniform it's it's happening in every uniform it's it's happening in every country for example the hundreds of country for example the hundreds of country for example the hundreds of newspapers in the United States that newspapers in the United States that newspapers in the United States that celebrate and tout this firebombing of celebrate and tout this firebombing of celebrate and tout this firebombing of Japan they don't show mounds of charred

Japan they don't show mounds of charred Japan they don't show mounds of charred human corpses they don't play that side human corpses they don't play that side human corpses they don't play that side of it up they may not even know how many of it up they may not even know how many of it up they may not even know how many people died it's all about how many people died it's all about how many people died it's all about how many structures were burned uh how much structures were burned uh how much structures were burned uh how much damage was done to the war effort and damage was done to the war effort and damage was done to the war effort and all those kind how many of our own all those kind how many of our own all those kind how many of our own planes got home safe this is exactly how planes got home safe this is exactly how planes got home safe this is exactly how other countries would portray a similar other countries would portray a similar other countries would portray a similar situation involving their forces what's more we have to recall the forces what's more we have to recall the amount of propaganda out there making amount of propaganda out there making amount of propaganda out there making sure that people were prepared prepared sure that people were prepared prepared sure that people were prepared prepared for this level of commitment and um for this level of commitment and um for this level of commitment and um nastiness in his book bombs cities and nastiness in his book bombs cities and nastiness in his book bombs cities and civilians Conrad crane quotes a little civilians Conrad crane quotes a little civilians Conrad crane quotes a little bit of the dialogue from one of these bit of the dialogue from one of these bit of the dialogue from one of these movies they made in 1944 that's one of movies they made in 1944 that's one of movies they made in 1944 that's one of those partnership deals between those partnership deals between those partnership deals between Hollywood and and the government right Hollywood and and the government right Hollywood and and the government right these are propaganda films or films that these are propaganda films or films that these are propaganda films or films that have a message that bolsters up the you have a message that bolsters up the you have a message that bolsters up the you know home front and it involved a film know home front and it involved a film know home front and it involved a film with Dana Andrews who was playing a with Dana Andrews who was playing a with Dana Andrews who was playing a doitt pilot one of those Pilots that doitt pilot one of those Pilots that doitt pilot one of those Pilots that symbolically bombed Japan back in 1942 symbolically bombed Japan back in 1942 symbolically bombed Japan back in 1942 got captured and was going to be got captured and was going to be got captured and was going to be executed and so they put these words executed and so they put these words executed and so they put these words into his mouth just before they're into his mouth just before they're into his mouth just before they're leading him away to have I guess his leading him away to have I guess his leading him away to have I guess his head cut off um the film by the way was head cut off um the film by the way was head cut off um the film by the way was called The Purple Heart and this is the called The Purple Heart and this is the called The Purple Heart and this is the kind of dialogue that preps one for an kind of dialogue that preps one for an kind of dialogue that preps one for an air campaign like this quote it's true air campaign like this quote it's true air campaign like this quote it's true we Americans don't know very much about we Americans don't know very much about we Americans don't know very much about you Japanese and never did and now I you Japanese and never did and now I you Japanese and never did and now I realize you know even less about us you

realize you know even less about us you realize you know even less about us you can kill us all of us or part of us but can kill us all of us or part of us but can kill us all of us or part of us but if you think that's going to put the if you think that's going to put the if you think that's going to put the fear of God into the United States of fear of God into the United States of fear of God into the United States of America and stop them from sending other America and stop them from sending other America and stop them from sending other flyers to bomb you you're wrong dead flyers to bomb you you're wrong dead flyers to bomb you you're wrong dead wrong they'll blacken your skies and wrong they'll blacken your skies and wrong they'll blacken your skies and burn down your cities to the ground and burn down your cities to the ground and burn down your cities to the ground and make you get down on your knees and beg make you get down on your knees and beg make you get down on your knees and beg for mercy this is your War you wanted it for mercy this is your War you wanted it for mercy this is your War you wanted it you asked for it and now you're going to you asked for it and now you're going to you asked for it and now you're going to get it and it won't be finished until get it and it won't be finished until get it and it won't be finished until your dirty little Empire is wiped off your dirty little Empire is wiped off your dirty little Empire is wiped off the face of the earth end the face of the earth end the face of the earth end quote and then they lead the hero off quote and then they lead the hero off quote and then they lead the hero off execute him make you feel extra angry execute him make you feel extra angry execute him make you feel extra angry and you're ready to go burn down some and you're ready to go burn down some and you're ready to go burn down some Japanese cities Japanese cities Japanese cities yourself those who actually had to do yourself those who actually had to do yourself those who actually had to do that though are to be that though are to be that though are to be pied uh there are a lot you know you pied uh there are a lot you know you pied uh there are a lot you know you never get the stories of people who never get the stories of people who never get the stories of people who returned just fine never thought another returned just fine never thought another returned just fine never thought another day about it and and moved on but you do day about it and and moved on but you do day about it and and moved on but you do hear the stories of those who were hear the stories of those who were hear the stories of those who were traumatized by it lots of tales of traumatized by it lots of tales of traumatized by it lots of tales of people returning back to their base with people returning back to their base with people returning back to their base with their clothes smelling like burnt human their clothes smelling like burnt human their clothes smelling like burnt human flesh pilots and crew members turning in flesh pilots and crew members turning in flesh pilots and crew members turning in after action reports with shaking after action reports with shaking after action reports with shaking hands um in Matthew a Roselle's book The hands um in Matthew a Roselle's book The hands um in Matthew a Roselle's book The Things our fathers saw one of the crew Things our fathers saw one of the crew Things our fathers saw one of the crew members said this quote we had to kill members said this quote we had to kill members said this quote we had to kill in order to end the war we heard about in order to end the war we heard about in order to end the war we heard about the thousands of people we killed the the thousands of people we killed the the thousands of people we killed the Japanese wives the children and the Japanese wives the children and the Japanese wives the children and the elderly that was war but I know every

elderly that was war but I know every elderly that was war but I know every b29 air crewman for the next two or b29 air crewman for the next two or b29 air crewman for the next two or three years would wake up at night and three years would wake up at night and three years would wake up at night and start shaking yes the raids were start shaking yes the raids were start shaking yes the raids were successful but horribly so and successful but horribly so and successful but horribly so and quote General Lum and the aircore quote General Lum and the aircore quote General Lum and the aircore position here is basically that we are position here is basically that we are position here is basically that we are going to continue to do this to you and going to continue to do this to you and going to continue to do this to you and you can't stop it until you say you've you can't stop it until you say you've you can't stop it until you say you've had enough and you end the had enough and you end the had enough and you end the war and yet as crazy as it war and yet as crazy as it war and yet as crazy as it sounds as bad as things already are for sounds as bad as things already are for sounds as bad as things already are for Japan they're not going to end the Japan they're not going to end the Japan they're not going to end the war and Herbert P Bick historian Herbert war and Herbert P Bick historian Herbert war and Herbert P Bick historian Herbert P Bix writes in P Bix writes in P Bix writes in Hirohito and the making of modern Hirohito and the making of modern Hirohito and the making of modern Japan Japan Japan quote two days after Emperor hirohito's quote two days after Emperor hirohito's quote two days after Emperor hirohito's inspection of bomb damage AG in the inspection of bomb damage AG in the inspection of bomb damage AG in the capital that means after the big Tokyo capital that means after the big Tokyo capital that means after the big Tokyo firebombing no less a person than firebombing no less a person than firebombing no less a person than retired former Minister shidara kijo retired former Minister shidara kijo retired former Minister shidara kijo once the very symbol of cooperation with once the very symbol of cooperation with once the very symbol of cooperation with Britain and the United States gave Britain and the United States gave Britain and the United States gave expression to a feeling that was widely expression to a feeling that was widely expression to a feeling that was widely held by Japan's ruling Elites at this held by Japan's ruling Elites at this held by Japan's ruling Elites at this time namely Japan had to be patient and time namely Japan had to be patient and time namely Japan had to be patient and resist surrender no matter what shidara resist surrender no matter what shidara resist surrender no matter what shidara had earlier advised foreign minister had earlier advised foreign minister had earlier advised foreign minister shitsu that the people would gradually shitsu that the people would gradually shitsu that the people would gradually get used to being bombed daily in time get used to being bombed daily in time get used to being bombed daily in time unity and resolve would grow stronger

unity and resolve would grow stronger unity and resolve would grow stronger and this would allow the diplomats quote and this would allow the diplomats quote and this would allow the diplomats quote room to devise plans for saving the room to devise plans for saving the room to devise plans for saving the country in this time of unprecedented country in this time of unprecedented country in this time of unprecedented crisis end crisis end crisis end quote Bix then goes on to quote a letter quote Bix then goes on to quote a letter quote Bix then goes on to quote a letter from the same foreign minister 10 days from the same foreign minister 10 days from the same foreign minister 10 days after the Tokyo fire bombing which said after the Tokyo fire bombing which said after the Tokyo fire bombing which said quote if we continue to fight back quote if we continue to fight back quote if we continue to fight back bravely even if hundreds of thousands of bravely even if hundreds of thousands of bravely even if hundreds of thousands of non-combatants are killed injured or non-combatants are killed injured or non-combatants are killed injured or starved even if millions of buildings starved even if millions of buildings starved even if millions of buildings are destroyed or burned and then Bix are destroyed or burned and then Bix are destroyed or burned and then Bix finishes his thought by saying there finishes his thought by saying there finishes his thought by saying there would be room to produce a more would be room to produce a more would be room to produce a more advantageous International situation for advantageous International situation for advantageous International situation for Japan end Japan end Japan end quote that's the same line we've been quote that's the same line we've been quote that's the same line we've been hearing for a long time now isn't it hearing for a long time now isn't it hearing for a long time now isn't it that if we can just shift the momentum that if we can just shift the momentum that if we can just shift the momentum here change our luck a little bit get here change our luck a little bit get here change our luck a little bit get lucky uh have one Victory we can go to lucky uh have one Victory we can go to lucky uh have one Victory we can go to the negotiating table then the negotiating table then the negotiating table then and not be without something to use to and not be without something to use to and not be without something to use to bargain with right but way back in bargain with right but way back in bargain with right but way back in February some of the people who um it's February some of the people who um it's February some of the people who um it's very hard to Define who was really for very hard to Define who was really for very hard to Define who was really for peace and who wasn't but some of the peace and who wasn't but some of the peace and who wasn't but some of the people that are often credited with people that are often credited with people that are often credited with being more in the peace faction had being more in the peace faction had being more in the peace faction had tried to sway the hardliners knowing tried to sway the hardliners knowing tried to sway the hardliners knowing that the hardliners biggest fear over that the hardliners biggest fear over that the hardliners biggest fear over any eventuality was communism by saying any eventuality was communism by saying any eventuality was communism by saying if this keeps up you're going to get the if this keeps up you're going to get the if this keeps up you're going to get the people overthrowing the government and people overthrowing the government and people overthrowing the government and and the emperor and everything else and and the emperor and everything else and and the emperor and everything else and that'll be worse than what the Allies that'll be worse than what the Allies that'll be worse than what the Allies would do to us if we

would do to us if we would do to us if we surrendered and even with all that surrendered and even with all that surrendered and even with all that hanging over the um heads of the hanging over the um heads of the hanging over the um heads of the Japanese leadership and the elite here Japanese leadership and the elite here Japanese leadership and the elite here like a Sword of like a Sword of like a Sword of Damocles with more Damocles with more Damocles with more firebombings you know to firebombings you know to firebombings you know to continue Japan fights continue Japan fights continue Japan fights on and on April 1st Allied troops land on and on April 1st Allied troops land on and on April 1st Allied troops land on Japanese soil on the island of on Japanese soil on the island of on Japanese soil on the island of okanawa and not only the Americans are okanawa and not only the Americans are okanawa and not only the Americans are in on it this time but elements of the in on it this time but elements of the in on it this time but elements of the British Navy the British Pacific Fleet British Navy the British Pacific Fleet British Navy the British Pacific Fleet are there now I mean Germany's almost are there now I mean Germany's almost are there now I mean Germany's almost had it no reason to keep the fleet in had it no reason to keep the fleet in had it no reason to keep the fleet in the Mediterranean Italy's out of the war the Mediterranean Italy's out of the war the Mediterranean Italy's out of the war no reason to keep it in the North Sea or no reason to keep it in the North Sea or no reason to keep it in the North Sea or the Atlantic bring it here into the the Atlantic bring it here into the the Atlantic bring it here into the Pacific with those aircraft carriers Pacific with those aircraft carriers Pacific with those aircraft carriers with the armored flight decks that'll be with the armored flight decks that'll be with the armored flight decks that'll be useful against kamakazi attacks and help useful against kamakazi attacks and help useful against kamakazi attacks and help us take the first of the Japanese home us take the first of the Japanese home us take the first of the Japanese home Islands although it's you know iffy Islands although it's you know iffy Islands although it's you know iffy whether you would consider okanawa one whether you would consider okanawa one whether you would consider okanawa one of the home Islands some of the okon of the home Islands some of the okon of the home Islands some of the okon aans wouldn't consider it one of the aans wouldn't consider it one of the aans wouldn't consider it one of the home Islands but it turns out to be a home Islands but it turns out to be a home Islands but it turns out to be a battle that acts as a preview a version battle that acts as a preview a version battle that acts as a preview a version in miniature of what the Allies can in miniature of what the Allies can in miniature of what the Allies can expect as they continue to move toward expect as they continue to move toward expect as they continue to move toward Japan and um you know islands like hushu Japan and um you know islands like hushu Japan and um you know islands like hushu right right right right okanawa has something similar to right okanawa has something similar to right okanawa has something similar to Japan also that the Allies will have to

Japan also that the Allies will have to Japan also that the Allies will have to deal with lots and lots of deal with lots and lots of deal with lots and lots of non-combatants non-combatants non-combatants civilians and they're not running off to civilians and they're not running off to civilians and they're not running off to some refugee camp they're not fleeing to some refugee camp they're not fleeing to some refugee camp they're not fleeing to another part of the country they're another part of the country they're another part of the country they're stuck there on an island 60 Mi long but stuck there on an island 60 Mi long but stuck there on an island 60 Mi long but only about 10 to 12 miles wide in some only about 10 to 12 miles wide in some only about 10 to 12 miles wide in some spots and you're talking hundreds of spots and you're talking hundreds of spots and you're talking hundreds of thousands of people thousands of people thousands of people more than 100,000 Japanese soldiers more more than 100,000 Japanese soldiers more more than 100,000 Japanese soldiers more than 100,000 American than 100,000 American than 100,000 American troops okau is going to troops okau is going to troops okau is going to produce the highest casualties of the produce the highest casualties of the produce the highest casualties of the Pacific War and some of the worst Pacific War and some of the worst Pacific War and some of the worst casualty rates in American military casualty rates in American military casualty rates in American military history and by the end of the ordeal of history and by the end of the ordeal of history and by the end of the ordeal of okanawa both the okanawa both the okanawa both the Japanese and the US military will be Japanese and the US military will be Japanese and the US military will be showing crack in their psychological showing crack in their psychological showing crack in their psychological facades at first it goes better than facades at first it goes better than facades at first it goes better than anyone on the Allied side has a right to anyone on the Allied side has a right to anyone on the Allied side has a right to expect the invasion as we said kicks off expect the invasion as we said kicks off expect the invasion as we said kicks off April 1st and there is seemingly little April 1st and there is seemingly little April 1st and there is seemingly little to no to no to no resistance you still have the big uh resistance you still have the big uh resistance you still have the big uh American bombardment of the beaches the American bombardment of the beaches the American bombardment of the beaches the entire choreographed military ballet entire choreographed military ballet entire choreographed military ballet goes the way it has for several islands goes the way it has for several islands goes the way it has for several islands now but the Japanese are in the interior now but the Japanese are in the interior now but the Japanese are in the interior staying away from where the big guns can staying away from where the big guns can staying away from where the big guns can hurt you and are planning to let the hurt you and are planning to let the hurt you and are planning to let the Americans come to them and then they're

Americans come to them and then they're Americans come to them and then they're going to take as many of them with them going to take as many of them with them going to take as many of them with them as they as they as they can but for four or five days the can but for four or five days the can but for four or five days the Americans don't run into anyone by and Americans don't run into anyone by and Americans don't run into anyone by and large I mean the Marines will sweep up large I mean the Marines will sweep up large I mean the Marines will sweep up toward the north of the island and take toward the north of the island and take toward the north of the island and take a little few of the smaller Islands just a little few of the smaller Islands just a little few of the smaller Islands just offshore of okanawa the army units for offshore of okanawa the army units for offshore of okanawa the army units for the most part will sweep South and it's the most part will sweep South and it's the most part will sweep South and it's not until like the 4th or the 5ifth of not until like the 4th or the 5ifth of not until like the 4th or the 5ifth of April till they run into the prepared April till they run into the prepared April till they run into the prepared defenses on both ends of the island defenses on both ends of the island defenses on both ends of the island especially the especially the especially the South and around the time they do is South and around the time they do is South and around the time they do is when the big when the big when the big Japanese suicide air and Naval suicide Japanese suicide air and Naval suicide Japanese suicide air and Naval suicide attack that's meant to be the answer the attack that's meant to be the answer the attack that's meant to be the answer the response to this US okan invasion hits response to this US okan invasion hits response to this US okan invasion hits you get a chance to see um how things you get a chance to see um how things you get a chance to see um how things are going to be Amplified as you get are going to be Amplified as you get are going to be Amplified as you get closer to the Japanese Homeland Which is closer to the Japanese Homeland Which is closer to the Japanese Homeland Which is less than 400 miles away from okanawa by less than 400 miles away from okanawa by less than 400 miles away from okanawa by the way and what was a trickle for the way and what was a trickle for the way and what was a trickle for example of suicide planes earlier in the example of suicide planes earlier in the example of suicide planes earlier in the war when they first showed up becomes an war when they first showed up becomes an war when they first showed up becomes an absolute flood at okanawa and there's absolute flood at okanawa and there's absolute flood at okanawa and there's all kinds of suicide things ready at all kinds of suicide things ready at all kinds of suicide things ready at okanawa the Americans find several okanawa the Americans find several okanawa the Americans find several hundred speed boats loaded with hundred speed boats loaded with hundred speed boats loaded with explosives before they can be used explosives before they can be used explosives before they can be used against the Americans the Japanese will against the Americans the Japanese will against the Americans the Japanese will be using a guided bomb um where a person be using a guided bomb um where a person be using a guided bomb um where a person guides the bomb after they drop it from guides the bomb after they drop it from guides the bomb after they drop it from a giant aircraft in this encounter but a giant aircraft in this encounter but a giant aircraft in this encounter but but the main assault and damage is going but the main assault and damage is going but the main assault and damage is going to be carried out by your standard to be carried out by your standard to be carried out by your standard kamakazi playes and the new tactic is kamakazi playes and the new tactic is kamakazi playes and the new tactic is going to be or the tactic I'm not sure going to be or the tactic I'm not sure going to be or the tactic I'm not sure how new it is to mix kamakazi planes in

how new it is to mix kamakazi planes in how new it is to mix kamakazi planes in with planes that are doing conventional with planes that are doing conventional with planes that are doing conventional attacks you know normal bombers and so attacks you know normal bombers and so attacks you know normal bombers and so if you're an American anti-aircraft if you're an American anti-aircraft if you're an American anti-aircraft Gunner how do you know the difference Gunner how do you know the difference Gunner how do you know the difference and who do you shoot at it becomes and who do you shoot at it becomes and who do you shoot at it becomes confusing and there's going to be I confusing and there's going to be I confusing and there's going to be I think 10 fullon kamakazi assaults during think 10 fullon kamakazi assaults during think 10 fullon kamakazi assaults during the whole okan campaign but in between the whole okan campaign but in between the whole okan campaign but in between the big assaults you have a single the big assaults you have a single the big assaults you have a single kamakazi here or there or a couple of kamakazi here or there or a couple of kamakazi here or there or a couple of them attacking and in 40-day Period the them attacking and in 40-day Period the them attacking and in 40-day Period the US Fleet will be hit by some kamakazi US Fleet will be hit by some kamakazi US Fleet will be hit by some kamakazi attack every single day can't relax for attack every single day can't relax for attack every single day can't relax for one one one minute and it's hard not to look at this minute and it's hard not to look at this minute and it's hard not to look at this as perhaps the first real test of what as perhaps the first real test of what as perhaps the first real test of what modern Naval combat's going to look like modern Naval combat's going to look like modern Naval combat's going to look like cuz there hasn't been modern Naval cuz there hasn't been modern Naval cuz there hasn't been modern Naval Combat between two First Rate Naval Combat between two First Rate Naval Combat between two First Rate Naval Powers since the second world war the Powers since the second world war the Powers since the second world war the little bits that you've gotten have little bits that you've gotten have little bits that you've gotten have shown how important missiles are going shown how important missiles are going shown how important missiles are going to be in Naval Combat well we haven't to be in Naval Combat well we haven't to be in Naval Combat well we haven't had a war where where hundreds of Naval had a war where where hundreds of Naval had a war where where hundreds of Naval missiles have been launched at fleets of missiles have been launched at fleets of missiles have been launched at fleets of ships the closest comparison you can ships the closest comparison you can ships the closest comparison you can find is what's going on you know off the find is what's going on you know off the find is what's going on you know off the coast of okanawa when sometimes hundreds coast of okanawa when sometimes hundreds coast of okanawa when sometimes hundreds of kamakazi mixed in with hundreds of of kamakazi mixed in with hundreds of of kamakazi mixed in with hundreds of bombers will show up and attempt to get bombers will show up and attempt to get bombers will show up and attempt to get through the American defensive screen through the American defensive screen through the American defensive screen and sink American and sink American and sink American ships they have far more success setting ships they have far more success setting ships they have far more success setting them on fire than outright sinking them them on fire than outright sinking them them on fire than outright sinking them but they begin to whittle down the but they begin to whittle down the but they begin to whittle down the American strength and not in a way where American strength and not in a way where American strength and not in a way where you have a danger of the whole Fleet you have a danger of the whole Fleet you have a danger of the whole Fleet being sunk or anything like that but

being sunk or anything like that but being sunk or anything like that but it's costing a lot of sailors Lives who it's costing a lot of sailors Lives who it's costing a lot of sailors Lives who are getting horribly burned the ones who are getting horribly burned the ones who are getting horribly burned the ones who survive it's taking out a lot of smaller survive it's taking out a lot of smaller survive it's taking out a lot of smaller ship and a bunch of American carriers ship and a bunch of American carriers ship and a bunch of American carriers end up getting injured enough to go back end up getting injured enough to go back end up getting injured enough to go back for for for repairs I read one Observer who was repairs I read one Observer who was repairs I read one Observer who was comparing the fact that the most comparing the fact that the most comparing the fact that the most countries have wooden flight decks countries have wooden flight decks countries have wooden flight decks including the Japanese and theer including the Japanese and theer including the Japanese and theer Americans but the British who we had Americans but the British who we had Americans but the British who we had just mentioned had shown up here with just mentioned had shown up here with just mentioned had shown up here with their Fleet or one of their fleets their their Fleet or one of their fleets their their Fleet or one of their fleets their Pacific Fleet and their uh aircraft Pacific Fleet and their uh aircraft Pacific Fleet and their uh aircraft carriers have armored flight decks which carriers have armored flight decks which carriers have armored flight decks which cuts down I guess on the number of cuts down I guess on the number of cuts down I guess on the number of aircraft you can keep on board so that's aircraft you can keep on board so that's aircraft you can keep on board so that's a downside but when the kamakazi hit it a downside but when the kamakazi hit it a downside but when the kamakazi hit it the Observer had said that if this the Observer had said that if this the Observer had said that if this happens to an American vessel it's back happens to an American vessel it's back happens to an American vessel it's back to port for six months of repair if it to port for six months of repair if it to port for six months of repair if it happens to an English British vessel you happens to an English British vessel you happens to an English British vessel you just call the sweeper Squad in right just call the sweeper Squad in right just call the sweeper Squad in right come on and just hose off the deck here come on and just hose off the deck here come on and just hose off the deck here and uh send this kamakazi what's left of and uh send this kamakazi what's left of and uh send this kamakazi what's left of this kamakazi plane right into the this kamakazi plane right into the this kamakazi plane right into the ocean the Japanese will lose thousands ocean the Japanese will lose thousands ocean the Japanese will lose thousands upon thousands of aircraft in the okwan upon thousands of aircraft in the okwan upon thousands of aircraft in the okwan campaign I've seen numbers all over the campaign I've seen numbers all over the campaign I've seen numbers all over the map and uh just going by the map and uh just going by the map and uh just going by the Encyclopedia of military history though Encyclopedia of military history though Encyclopedia of military history though they claim somewhere north of 7,000 they claim somewhere north of 7,000 they claim somewhere north of 7,000 somewhere south of 8,000 aircraft chewed somewhere south of 8,000 aircraft chewed somewhere south of 8,000 aircraft chewed up in this up in this up in this campaign but they also manage to sink 36 campaign but they also manage to sink 36 campaign but they also manage to sink 36 of the US fifth fets ships and damage of the US fifth fets ships and damage of the US fifth fets ships and damage another 368 more that is not another 368 more that is not another 368 more that is not insignificant and we should recall that insignificant and we should recall that insignificant and we should recall that the Japanese are stockpiling all these

the Japanese are stockpiling all these the Japanese are stockpiling all these kind of things on the home islands for kind of things on the home islands for kind of things on the home islands for future assaults there was a surface component assaults there was a surface component That was supposed to work with these That was supposed to work with these That was supposed to work with these kamakazi attacks and the interesting kamakazi attacks and the interesting kamakazi attacks and the interesting aspect of that is that it involved the aspect of that is that it involved the aspect of that is that it involved the super battleship Yamato whose sister super battleship Yamato whose sister super battleship Yamato whose sister ship was sunk a few battles ago the ship was sunk a few battles ago the ship was sunk a few battles ago the Masashi and neither ship having done Masashi and neither ship having done Masashi and neither ship having done much in this war both ships had every much in this war both ships had every much in this war both ships had every right to be the queen of the Seas when right to be the queen of the Seas when right to be the queen of the Seas when they were launched and commissioned only they were launched and commissioned only they were launched and commissioned only the technological Wheel of Fortune had the technological Wheel of Fortune had the technological Wheel of Fortune had passed them by and over the course of passed them by and over the course of passed them by and over the course of several hours the American aircraft several hours the American aircraft several hours the American aircraft sometimes a hundred at a time will sink sometimes a hundred at a time will sink sometimes a hundred at a time will sink her just as easily as they sunk her her just as easily as they sunk her her just as easily as they sunk her sistership to moushi lots of bombs lots sistership to moushi lots of bombs lots sistership to moushi lots of bombs lots of torpedoes but there was nothing to it of torpedoes but there was nothing to it of torpedoes but there was nothing to it the Americans lose between 10 and 15 the Americans lose between 10 and 15 the Americans lose between 10 and 15 aircraft sinking not just the Amato but aircraft sinking not just the Amato but aircraft sinking not just the Amato but the cruiser and the Destroyers with it the cruiser and the Destroyers with it the cruiser and the Destroyers with it it's it's it's nothing you look at the disparity nothing you look at the disparity nothing you look at the disparity between what those 10 or 15 aircraft between what those 10 or 15 aircraft between what those 10 or 15 aircraft cost the United States in time labor cost the United States in time labor cost the United States in time labor resources opportunity cost everything resources opportunity cost everything resources opportunity cost everything else versus what the Yamato cost the else versus what the Yamato cost the else versus what the Yamato cost the Japanese technology has a way doesn't it Japanese technology has a way doesn't it Japanese technology has a way doesn't it of taking something that was very of taking something that was very of taking something that was very valuable not that long ago and making it valuable not that long ago and making it valuable not that long ago and making it practically worthless now on April 12th just as things are really on April 12th just as things are really starting to get nasty on okanawa itself starting to get nasty on okanawa itself starting to get nasty on okanawa itself in the land in the land in the land combat the American president who has

combat the American president who has combat the American president who has served more time in office than any served more time in office than any served more time in office than any other president in American other president in American other president in American history dies in that office Roosevelt was famously trying to office Roosevelt was famously trying to get a little of his strength back in get a little of his strength back in get a little of his strength back in Warm Springs Georgia when he's having Warm Springs Georgia when he's having Warm Springs Georgia when he's having his portrait painting his portrait painting his portrait painting and uh tells the people in the room that and uh tells the people in the room that and uh tells the people in the room that he's got a terrible headache and he's got a terrible headache and he's got a terrible headache and succumbs very quickly to a cerebral succumbs very quickly to a cerebral succumbs very quickly to a cerebral hemorrhage stroke type hemorrhage stroke type hemorrhage stroke type incident this is not a surprise to incident this is not a surprise to incident this is not a surprise to anyone who was around the man at all you anyone who was around the man at all you anyone who was around the man at all you read account after account after account read account after account after account read account after account after account for a good year before his death that he for a good year before his death that he for a good year before his death that he looks like death is at his door a lot of looks like death is at his door a lot of looks like death is at his door a lot of people thought it was irresponsible for people thought it was irresponsible for people thought it was irresponsible for the man to run for his fourth term in the man to run for his fourth term in the man to run for his fourth term in office as sick as he obviously office as sick as he obviously office as sick as he obviously was what's more if you're in the middle was what's more if you're in the middle was what's more if you're in the middle of a war especially and you're a world of a war especially and you're a world of a war especially and you're a world leader and you know how sick you are leader and you know how sick you are leader and you know how sick you are wouldn't you be really concerned with wouldn't you be really concerned with wouldn't you be really concerned with who your successor is that's part of the who your successor is that's part of the who your successor is that's part of the interesting angle here the president of interesting angle here the president of interesting angle here the president of the United States has only recently the United States has only recently the United States has only recently picked a new vice president so a guy picked a new vice president so a guy picked a new vice president so a guy who's in office for four terms so long who's in office for four terms so long who's in office for four terms so long that most of the soldiers on the ground that most of the soldiers on the ground that most of the soldiers on the ground have no memory of any other president in have no memory of any other president in have no memory of any other president in their lives um he's got a new vice their lives um he's got a new vice their lives um he's got a new vice president as of January 1945 so it's president as of January 1945 so it's president as of January 1945 so it's April something like 82 or 83 days he's April something like 82 or 83 days he's April something like 82 or 83 days he's had this guy and he's not someone that had this guy and he's not someone that had this guy and he's not someone that really anyone knows his name is Harry

really anyone knows his name is Harry really anyone knows his name is Harry Truman it's interesting isn't it that of Truman it's interesting isn't it that of Truman it's interesting isn't it that of the socalled big three Allied commanders the socalled big three Allied commanders the socalled big three Allied commanders in the war you know Allied Leaders in the war you know Allied Leaders in the war you know Allied Leaders Roosevelt Churchill and Stalin only Roosevelt Churchill and Stalin only Roosevelt Churchill and Stalin only Stalin is still in power at the end of Stalin is still in power at the end of Stalin is still in power at the end of the war Churchill famously gets uh well the war Churchill famously gets uh well the war Churchill famously gets uh well he loses the election in July he loses the election in July he loses the election in July 1945 so he has to give up power and 1945 so he has to give up power and 1945 so he has to give up power and Roosevelt dies and so Harry Truman who Roosevelt dies and so Harry Truman who Roosevelt dies and so Harry Truman who was said to have cried on someone's was said to have cried on someone's was said to have cried on someone's shoulder saying you know that he's not shoulder saying you know that he's not shoulder saying you know that he's not big enough for the job when he hears big enough for the job when he hears big enough for the job when he hears that it is his job he'll he'll say to that it is his job he'll he'll say to that it is his job he'll he'll say to Elanor Roosevelt Franklin's Widow is Elanor Roosevelt Franklin's Widow is Elanor Roosevelt Franklin's Widow is there anything I can do for you and she there anything I can do for you and she there anything I can do for you and she says is there anything I can do for you says is there anything I can do for you says is there anything I can do for you you're the one in trouble now and Truman you're the one in trouble now and Truman you're the one in trouble now and Truman himself has written that when he found himself has written that when he found himself has written that when he found out he was President it felt like the out he was President it felt like the out he was President it felt like the whole world stars moon and un I fell on whole world stars moon and un I fell on whole world stars moon and un I fell on top of top of top of him this is a guy who in his 82 or 83 him this is a guy who in his 82 or 83 him this is a guy who in his 82 or 83 days as Vice President of the United days as Vice President of the United days as Vice President of the United States met alone with the president of States met alone with the president of States met alone with the president of the United States a mere two times and the United States a mere two times and the United States a mere two times and oh yeah that guy the guy dying where oh yeah that guy the guy dying where oh yeah that guy the guy dying where everyone knew he was dying didn't even everyone knew he was dying didn't even everyone knew he was dying didn't even mention to the vice president that mention to the vice president that mention to the vice president that they've been working on a secret weapon they've been working on a secret weapon they've been working on a secret weapon that he might now that he might now that he might now inherit it's borderline negligent and Truman is no Roosevelt if negligent and Truman is no Roosevelt if you're going to take over in Wartime and you're going to take over in Wartime and you're going to take over in Wartime and especially if you're going to take over especially if you're going to take over especially if you're going to take over at this kind of a critical moment in at this kind of a critical moment in at this kind of a critical moment in Wartime you'd like to think you have Wartime you'd like to think you have Wartime you'd like to think you have some really August figure and

some really August figure and some really August figure and Truman's opponents and and people who Truman's opponents and and people who Truman's opponents and and people who didn't like him would often call him a didn't like him would often call him a didn't like him would often call him a failed habit daser he is not someone failed habit daser he is not someone failed habit daser he is not someone that when you look at him you think okay that when you look at him you think okay that when you look at him you think okay this is going to be one of the really this is going to be one of the really this is going to be one of the really powerful August um movers and shakers powerful August um movers and shakers powerful August um movers and shakers but it's going to be up to him on what but it's going to be up to him on what but it's going to be up to him on what to do for the rest of the war and to do for the rest of the war and to do for the rest of the war and there's going to be some pretty darn big there's going to be some pretty darn big there's going to be some pretty darn big decisions as you can decisions as you can decisions as you can imagine actually the end stages of the imagine actually the end stages of the imagine actually the end stages of the second world war not a good time to be second world war not a good time to be second world war not a good time to be one of the leaders in the second world one of the leaders in the second world one of the leaders in the second world war on either war on either war on either side and as we said Churchill loses an side and as we said Churchill loses an side and as we said Churchill loses an election he's gone from Power Roosevelt election he's gone from Power Roosevelt election he's gone from Power Roosevelt dies musolini will be executed by dies musolini will be executed by dies musolini will be executed by partisans on April ail 28th Hitler will partisans on April ail 28th Hitler will partisans on April ail 28th Hitler will die um in early May and Germany will die um in early May and Germany will die um in early May and Germany will surrender by the way in early May May surrender by the way in early May May surrender by the way in early May May 7th May 8th in there May 8th 7th May 8th in there May 8th 7th May 8th in there May 8th really so things are clearly winding really so things are clearly winding really so things are clearly winding down but what this means is in the down but what this means is in the down but what this means is in the middle of the Oka now in battle Japan middle of the Oka now in battle Japan middle of the Oka now in battle Japan becomes um the only one still fighting becomes um the only one still fighting becomes um the only one still fighting the only major power still on the axis the only major power still on the axis the only major power still on the axis side fighting and the fighting is getting more vicious and the fighting is getting more vicious all the time the Japanese have several all the time the Japanese have several all the time the Japanese have several lines uh cut across the width of the lines uh cut across the width of the lines uh cut across the width of the island and they're forcing the Americans island and they're forcing the Americans island and they're forcing the Americans to take them on headon and you begin to

to take them on headon and you begin to to take them on headon and you begin to see the kind of combat that reminds one see the kind of combat that reminds one see the kind of combat that reminds one more of the first world war than the more of the first world war than the more of the first world war than the second in fact I think it wasw to that second in fact I think it wasw to that second in fact I think it wasw to that referred to okanawa as a Pacific verun if you look at a picture of the if you look at a picture of the okan campaign especially one taken over okan campaign especially one taken over okan campaign especially one taken over at the shy line in the south after the at the shy line in the south after the at the shy line in the south after the fighting's been going on for a while fighting's been going on for a while fighting's been going on for a while you'd be hard pressed to say that wasn't you'd be hard pressed to say that wasn't you'd be hard pressed to say that wasn't a first World War a first World War a first World War battlefield and it just looks like giant battlefield and it just looks like giant battlefield and it just looks like giant piles of dirt with some roads cut piles of dirt with some roads cut piles of dirt with some roads cut through it I mean there's nothing green through it I mean there's nothing green through it I mean there's nothing green left anywhere no trees no stumps no left anywhere no trees no stumps no left anywhere no trees no stumps no grass no nothing holes in the ground grass no nothing holes in the ground grass no nothing holes in the ground where the troops are trying desperately where the troops are trying desperately where the troops are trying desperately to not be killed K by mortars or to not be killed K by mortars or to not be killed K by mortars or artillery artillery artillery shells and just like the first world war shells and just like the first world war shells and just like the first world war because the situation is so dangerous because the situation is so dangerous because the situation is so dangerous that people can't go about their that people can't go about their that people can't go about their business including things like going to business including things like going to business including things like going to the latrine in the rear area everything the latrine in the rear area everything the latrine in the rear area everything stays where it is excrement trash bodies stays where it is excrement trash bodies stays where it is excrement trash bodies and that contributes to something which and that contributes to something which and that contributes to something which well in the first world war it shattered well in the first world war it shattered well in the first world war it shattered the sensibilities of a lot of the people the sensibilities of a lot of the people the sensibilities of a lot of the people forced to live in those circumstances forced to live in those circumstances forced to live in those circumstances and um in with the old breed at pelalu and um in with the old breed at pelalu and um in with the old breed at pelalu in okanawa uh EB Sledge Eugene Sledge in okanawa uh EB Sledge Eugene Sledge in okanawa uh EB Sledge Eugene Sledge was at okanawa and describes just what was at okanawa and describes just what was at okanawa and describes just what it was like over on the shuy line and it was like over on the shuy line and it was like over on the shuy line and remember sometime in this conflict the

remember sometime in this conflict the remember sometime in this conflict the rain starts and makes everything worse rain starts and makes everything worse rain starts and makes everything worse if you're already living in a latrine if you're already living in a latrine if you're already living in a latrine what happens when you add water right what happens when you add water right what happens when you add water right and sledge writes quote everywhere lay and sledge writes quote everywhere lay and sledge writes quote everywhere lay Japanese Corpses killed in the heavy Japanese Corpses killed in the heavy Japanese Corpses killed in the heavy fighting infantry equipment of every fighting infantry equipment of every fighting infantry equipment of every type us and Japanese was scattered about type us and Japanese was scattered about type us and Japanese was scattered about helmets rifles BS packs cartridge belts helmets rifles BS packs cartridge belts helmets rifles BS packs cartridge belts canteen shoes ammo boxes shell cases canteen shoes ammo boxes shell cases canteen shoes ammo boxes shell cases machine gun ammo belts all were strewn machine gun ammo belts all were strewn machine gun ammo belts all were strewn around us up to and all over half moon around us up to and all over half moon around us up to and all over half moon that's one of the battle areas he says that's one of the battle areas he says that's one of the battle areas he says quote the mud was kneee in some places quote the mud was kneee in some places quote the mud was kneee in some places probably deeper in others if one dared probably deeper in others if one dared probably deeper in others if one dared Venture there for several feet around Venture there for several feet around Venture there for several feet around every corpse maggots crawled about in every corpse maggots crawled about in every corpse maggots crawled about in the muck and then were washed away by the muck and then were washed away by the muck and then were washed away by the runoff of the rain there wasn't a the runoff of the rain there wasn't a the runoff of the rain there wasn't a tree or bush left all was Open Country tree or bush left all was Open Country tree or bush left all was Open Country shells had torn up the turf so shells had torn up the turf so shells had torn up the turf so completely he writes that ground cover completely he writes that ground cover completely he writes that ground cover was non-existent the rain poured down on was non-existent the rain poured down on was non-existent the rain poured down on us as evening approached the scene was us as evening approached the scene was us as evening approached the scene was nothing but mud shellfire flooded nothing but mud shellfire flooded nothing but mud shellfire flooded craters with their silent pathetic craters with their silent pathetic craters with their silent pathetic rotting occupants knocked out tanks and rotting occupants knocked out tanks and rotting occupants knocked out tanks and am TRS and discarded equipment utter am TRS and discarded equipment utter am TRS and discarded equipment utter desolation the stench of death he writes desolation the stench of death he writes desolation the stench of death he writes was was was overpowering end overpowering end overpowering end quote how does one deal with that well quote how does one deal with that well quote how does one deal with that well Sledge says quote I existed from moment Sledge says quote I existed from moment Sledge says quote I existed from moment to moment sometimes thinking death would to moment sometimes thinking death would to moment sometimes thinking death would have been preferable we were in the

have been preferable we were in the have been preferable we were in the depths of the Abyss the ultimate horror depths of the Abyss the ultimate horror depths of the Abyss the ultimate horror of war during the fighting around umer of war during the fighting around umer of war during the fighting around umer brogal pocket on pelo I had been brogal pocket on pelo I had been brogal pocket on pelo I had been depressed by the wastage of human lives depressed by the wastage of human lives depressed by the wastage of human lives but in the mud and driving rain before but in the mud and driving rain before but in the mud and driving rain before shy we were surrounded by maggots and shy we were surrounded by maggots and shy we were surrounded by maggots and Decay men struggled and fought and bled Decay men struggled and fought and bled Decay men struggled and fought and bled in an environment so degrading I in an environment so degrading I in an environment so degrading I believed we had been flung into hell's believed we had been flung into hell's believed we had been flung into hell's own own own Cesspool end Cesspool end Cesspool end quote Sledge also describes what happens quote Sledge also describes what happens quote Sledge also describes what happens when they're out there killing lots of when they're out there killing lots of when they're out there killing lots of Japanese which they were and then the Japanese which they were and then the Japanese which they were and then the shells come in and chew up the bodies shells come in and chew up the bodies shells come in and chew up the bodies that were laying on the ground which is that were laying on the ground which is that were laying on the ground which is the environment that the Marines and the the environment that the Marines and the the environment that the Marines and the Army troops have to actually live in and Army troops have to actually live in and Army troops have to actually live in and he writes quote the situation was bad he writes quote the situation was bad he writes quote the situation was bad enough but when enemy artillery shells enough but when enemy artillery shells enough but when enemy artillery shells exploded in the area the eruptions of exploded in the area the eruptions of exploded in the area the eruptions of soil and mud uncovered previously buried soil and mud uncovered previously buried soil and mud uncovered previously buried Japanese dead and Scattered chunks of Japanese dead and Scattered chunks of Japanese dead and Scattered chunks of corpses like the area around our gun corpses like the area around our gun corpses like the area around our gun pits the ridge was a stinking compost pits the ridge was a stinking compost pits the ridge was a stinking compost pile if a marine slipped and slid down pile if a marine slipped and slid down pile if a marine slipped and slid down the back slope of the muddy Ridge he the back slope of the muddy Ridge he the back slope of the muddy Ridge he writes he was apt to reach the bottom writes he was apt to reach the bottom writes he was apt to reach the bottom vomiting I saw more than one man lose vomiting I saw more than one man lose vomiting I saw more than one man lose his footing and slip and slide all the his footing and slip and slide all the his footing and slip and slide all the way to the bottom only to stand up way to the bottom only to stand up way to the bottom only to stand up horror stricken as he watched in horror stricken as he watched in horror stricken as he watched in disbelief while fat maggots tumbled out disbelief while fat maggots tumbled out disbelief while fat maggots tumbled out of his muddy Dungy Pockets cartridge of his muddy Dungy Pockets cartridge of his muddy Dungy Pockets cartridge belt leggings lacings and the like then belt leggings lacings and the like then belt leggings lacings and the like then he and a buddy would shake or scrape he and a buddy would shake or scrape he and a buddy would shake or scrape them away with a piece of ammo box or a them away with a piece of ammo box or a them away with a piece of ammo box or a knife blade we didn't talk about such

knife blade we didn't talk about such knife blade we didn't talk about such things they were too horrible and things they were too horrible and things they were too horrible and obscene even for hardened veterans the obscene even for hardened veterans the obscene even for hardened veterans the conditions taxed the toughest I knew conditions taxed the toughest I knew conditions taxed the toughest I knew almost to the point of screaming nor do almost to the point of screaming nor do almost to the point of screaming nor do authors normally write about such vess authors normally write about such vess authors normally write about such vess unless they've seen it with their own unless they've seen it with their own unless they've seen it with their own eyes it is too Preposterous to think eyes it is too Preposterous to think eyes it is too Preposterous to think that men could actually live and fight that men could actually live and fight that men could actually live and fight for days and nights on end under such for days and nights on end under such for days and nights on end under such terrible conditions and not be driven terrible conditions and not be driven terrible conditions and not be driven insane but I saw much of it there on insane but I saw much of it there on insane but I saw much of it there on okanawa and to me the war was okanawa and to me the war was okanawa and to me the war was Insanity end Insanity end Insanity end quote the actual fighting and trying to quote the actual fighting and trying to quote the actual fighting and trying to get people out of caves and defensive get people out of caves and defensive get people out of caves and defensive positions if you weren't Act AC L positions if you weren't Act AC L positions if you weren't Act AC L involved in the kind of combat Sledge involved in the kind of combat Sledge involved in the kind of combat Sledge was just talking about was a kind of was just talking about was a kind of was just talking about was a kind of horrific and extremely dangerous horrific and extremely dangerous horrific and extremely dangerous tediousness and ianw tol says tediousness and ianw tol says tediousness and ianw tol says quote it was slow bloody treacherous quote it was slow bloody treacherous quote it was slow bloody treacherous work involving flamethrowers grenades work involving flamethrowers grenades work involving flamethrowers grenades satchel charges Small Arms bayonets and satchel charges Small Arms bayonets and satchel charges Small Arms bayonets and even knives and bare hands General even knives and bare hands General even knives and bare hands General Buckner the American Commander referred Buckner the American Commander referred Buckner the American Commander referred to these tactics as the blow toward and to these tactics as the blow toward and to these tactics as the blow toward and Corkscrew method end Corkscrew method end Corkscrew method end quote he then goes on to talk about how quote he then goes on to talk about how quote he then goes on to talk about how unbelievably Brave and tenacious both unbelievably Brave and tenacious both unbelievably Brave and tenacious both sides were in fighting for things like sides were in fighting for things like sides were in fighting for things like High Ground positions which would often High Ground positions which would often High Ground positions which would often change hands then change hands again change hands then change hands again change hands then change hands again then change hands again sometimes 10 12 then change hands again sometimes 10 12 then change hands again sometimes 10 12 times tol writes quote Naval gunfire and

times tol writes quote Naval gunfire and times tol writes quote Naval gunfire and air support were valuable on okanawa but air support were valuable on okanawa but air support were valuable on okanawa but they never superseded The Bravery they never superseded The Bravery they never superseded The Bravery initiative and grit of individual initiative and grit of individual initiative and grit of individual infantry units in the end the soldiers infantry units in the end the soldiers infantry units in the end the soldiers and Marines had to dig their enemies out and Marines had to dig their enemies out and Marines had to dig their enemies out of the ground and kill them there was no of the ground and kill them there was no of the ground and kill them there was no other way rarely could they gain an other way rarely could they gain an other way rarely could they gain an advantage through flanking Maneuvers on advantage through flanking Maneuvers on advantage through flanking Maneuvers on the constricted terrain Around The shury the constricted terrain Around The shury the constricted terrain Around The shury Ridges each Battalion was wedged into a Ridges each Battalion was wedged into a Ridges each Battalion was wedged into a densely populated section of the line on densely populated section of the line on densely populated section of the line on average a th000 troops for every 600 average a th000 troops for every 600 average a th000 troops for every 600 yards and the only way to hit the enemy yards and the only way to hit the enemy yards and the only way to hit the enemy was by frontal assault they might was by frontal assault they might was by frontal assault they might briefly seize control of the top of a briefly seize control of the top of a briefly seize control of the top of a facing Ridge but then be driven back by facing Ridge but then be driven back by facing Ridge but then be driven back by Heavy Artillery fire from positions Heavy Artillery fire from positions Heavy Artillery fire from positions farther south or by Japanese infantry farther south or by Japanese infantry farther south or by Japanese infantry counterattacks in Superior force that counterattacks in Superior force that counterattacks in Superior force that was a recurring pattern on okanawa The was a recurring pattern on okanawa The was a recurring pattern on okanawa The High Ground often changed hands in a High Ground often changed hands in a High Ground often changed hands in a succession of attacks and counterattacks succession of attacks and counterattacks succession of attacks and counterattacks sometimes as many as a dozen times sometimes as many as a dozen times sometimes as many as a dozen times American and Japanese dead he writes American and Japanese dead he writes American and Japanese dead he writes were sped side by side on the were sped side by side on the were sped side by side on the battlefield all foliage had been blasted battlefield all foliage had been blasted battlefield all foliage had been blasted or burned away from the once verdant or burned away from the once verdant or burned away from the once verdant land ESC cape and the zones between the land ESC cape and the zones between the land ESC cape and the zones between the opposing lines were scarred and denuded opposing lines were scarred and denuded opposing lines were scarred and denuded Wasteland artillery and mortar shells Wasteland artillery and mortar shells Wasteland artillery and mortar shells fell relentlessly shaking the walls of fell relentlessly shaking the walls of fell relentlessly shaking the walls of the trenches and foxholes Japanese the trenches and foxholes Japanese the trenches and foxholes Japanese infiltration attacks were a nightly infiltration attacks were a nightly infiltration attacks were a nightly horror more than on any previous Pacific horror more than on any previous Pacific horror more than on any previous Pacific Battlefield infantrymen suffered Battlefield infantrymen suffered Battlefield infantrymen suffered psychotic breaks and had to be evacuated psychotic breaks and had to be evacuated psychotic breaks and had to be evacuated as quote and quote psycho cases the war

as quote and quote psycho cases the war as quote and quote psycho cases the war correspondent John lardner saw a soldier correspondent John lardner saw a soldier correspondent John lardner saw a soldier LED away from the front line by two LED away from the front line by two LED away from the front line by two medical cormen he was uninjured but medical cormen he was uninjured but medical cormen he was uninjured but wide-eyed and shrieking they'll get wide-eyed and shrieking they'll get wide-eyed and shrieking they'll get every one of you they'll get every one every one of you they'll get every one every one of you they'll get every one of you end of you end of you end quote but it's not just the conditions quote but it's not just the conditions quote but it's not just the conditions that would drive you crazy here I mean that would drive you crazy here I mean that would drive you crazy here I mean the soldiers are put in the kind of the soldiers are put in the kind of the soldiers are put in the kind of positions that I remember and I think positions that I remember and I think positions that I remember and I think I've mentioned before the the Vietnam I've mentioned before the the Vietnam I've mentioned before the the Vietnam class which was all the rage when I was class which was all the rage when I was class which was all the rage when I was in college they were taught on a lot of in college they were taught on a lot of in college they were taught on a lot of campuses and they would bring in these campuses and they would bring in these campuses and they would bring in these Vietnam veterans to to talk to uh US Vietnam veterans to to talk to uh US Vietnam veterans to to talk to uh US military history major we military military history major we military military history major we military history majors and I'll never forget how history majors and I'll never forget how history majors and I'll never forget how often the problems happened when the often the problems happened when the often the problems happened when the soldiers were forced to deal with soldiers were forced to deal with soldiers were forced to deal with civilians or people that did not fit the civilians or people that did not fit the civilians or people that did not fit the mold of what one is preparing themselves mold of what one is preparing themselves mold of what one is preparing themselves to fight in boot camp and all these to fight in boot camp and all these to fight in boot camp and all these other things right an enemy soldier other things right an enemy soldier other things right an enemy soldier killer be killed it's different when the killer be killed it's different when the killer be killed it's different when the enemy soldier is 12 years old or a enemy soldier is 12 years old or a enemy soldier is 12 years old or a woman and the hundreds of thousands of woman and the hundreds of thousands of woman and the hundreds of thousands of civilians on okanawa made it absolutely civilians on okanawa made it absolutely civilians on okanawa made it absolutely impossible to avoid hurting these impossible to avoid hurting these impossible to avoid hurting these people and IID said earlier that there people and IID said earlier that there people and IID said earlier that there was nowhere to run that they hadn't been was nowhere to run that they hadn't been was nowhere to run that they hadn't been evacuated actually some had been evacuated actually some had been evacuated actually some had been evacuated some something like 80,000 had evacuated some something like 80,000 had evacuated some something like 80,000 had been evacuated uh there had been others been evacuated uh there had been others been evacuated uh there had been others moved to other parts of the island uh by moved to other parts of the island uh by moved to other parts of the island uh by the Japanese considered to be safer but the Japanese considered to be safer but the Japanese considered to be safer but several hundred thousand were still in several hundred thousand were still in several hundred thousand were still in the way and in caves and trying to stay the way and in caves and trying to stay the way and in caves and trying to stay away from the combat others had been

away from the combat others had been away from the combat others had been drafted by the Japanese CU remember as drafted by the Japanese CU remember as drafted by the Japanese CU remember as far as they're concerned okanawa has far as they're concerned okanawa has far as they're concerned okanawa has been under Japanese control for a been under Japanese control for a been under Japanese control for a generation so they impress people into generation so they impress people into generation so they impress people into the sort of the hom the sort of the hom the sort of the hom guard they have a calling them Hitler guard they have a calling them Hitler guard they have a calling them Hitler Youth is perhaps not right but they have Youth is perhaps not right but they have Youth is perhaps not right but they have sort of a militant Youth Organization sort of a militant Youth Organization sort of a militant Youth Organization that has boys 14 to 17 years old in it that has boys 14 to 17 years old in it that has boys 14 to 17 years old in it they get thrown into things girls 14 to they get thrown into things girls 14 to they get thrown into things girls 14 to 17 year old who are nurses nursing 17 year old who are nurses nursing 17 year old who are nurses nursing students get thrown into this and students get thrown into this and students get thrown into this and everybody's going to take everybody's going to take everybody's going to take casualties in his book The Battle for casualties in his book The Battle for casualties in his book The Battle for okanawa Survivor and uh and higher okanawa Survivor and uh and higher okanawa Survivor and uh and higher command official Colonel hamii command official Colonel hamii command official Colonel hamii Yahara describes running into some of Yahara describes running into some of Yahara describes running into some of these and girls is the young women I these and girls is the young women I these and girls is the young women I don't know what you would call somebody don't know what you would call somebody don't know what you would call somebody 14 15 16 running into them uh who are 14 15 16 running into them uh who are 14 15 16 running into them uh who are doing work in one of these caves all of doing work in one of these caves all of doing work in one of these caves all of them very aware that they're probably on them very aware that they're probably on them very aware that they're probably on a kind of a suicide mission a kind of a suicide mission a kind of a suicide mission here and Colonel Yahara writes quote here and Colonel Yahara writes quote here and Colonel Yahara writes quote during the construction meaning of one during the construction meaning of one during the construction meaning of one of these places I often visited of these places I often visited of these places I often visited sucan to encourage the workers young sucan to encourage the workers young sucan to encourage the workers young civilians including many boys and girls civilians including many boys and girls civilians including many boys and girls had been conscripted to work on the had been conscripted to work on the had been conscripted to work on the tunnels and the Airfield deep in the tunnels and the Airfield deep in the tunnels and the Airfield deep in the tunnel on one of my visits I found tunnel on one of my visits I found tunnel on one of my visits I found several girls repairing a water leak several girls repairing a water leak several girls repairing a water leak when I praised their effort one girl when I praised their effort one girl when I praised their effort one girl stood and said sweetly quote we'll do stood and said sweetly quote we'll do stood and said sweetly quote we'll do our best until the end end quote I was our best until the end end quote I was our best until the end end quote I was deeply touched he writes by their deeply touched he writes by their deeply touched he writes by their Devotion to

Devotion to Devotion to duty the end of course means when they duty the end of course means when they duty the end of course means when they all die all die all die a lot of those people will end up being a lot of those people will end up being a lot of those people will end up being killed by being stuck in the killed by being stuck in the killed by being stuck in the crossfire just like the soldiers right crossfire just like the soldiers right crossfire just like the soldiers right dying from artillery or mortars uh they dying from artillery or mortars uh they dying from artillery or mortars uh they will sometimes be trapped in caves with will sometimes be trapped in caves with will sometimes be trapped in caves with military people and so everyone dies military people and so everyone dies military people and so everyone dies sometimes they will be trapped in caves sometimes they will be trapped in caves sometimes they will be trapped in caves and too afraid the civilian population and too afraid the civilian population and too afraid the civilian population is absolutely terrified just like the is absolutely terrified just like the is absolutely terrified just like the people on sipan were of the Americans people on sipan were of the Americans people on sipan were of the Americans they've been fed uh this idea that they've been fed uh this idea that they've been fed uh this idea that they're going to be tortured and raped they're going to be tortured and raped they're going to be tortured and raped and killed in the most horrible ways and and killed in the most horrible ways and and killed in the most horrible ways and so they're trying not to surrender to so they're trying not to surrender to so they're trying not to surrender to the Americans but that means that when the Americans but that means that when the Americans but that means that when some American calls out into a cave and some American calls out into a cave and some American calls out into a cave and says you know come on out with your says you know come on out with your says you know come on out with your hands up and no one does they throw a hands up and no one does they throw a hands up and no one does they throw a grenade into the cave and keep grenade into the cave and keep grenade into the cave and keep going a lot of people die that way but going a lot of people die that way but going a lot of people die that way but the worst is when the uh civilians the worst is when the uh civilians the worst is when the uh civilians sometimes with Japanese using them as sometimes with Japanese using them as sometimes with Japanese using them as human Shields sometimes with the human Shields sometimes with the human Shields sometimes with the Japanese dressed up as civilians trying Japanese dressed up as civilians trying Japanese dressed up as civilians trying to get away in a crowd of civilians will to get away in a crowd of civilians will to get away in a crowd of civilians will usually at Night Rush American lines and usually at Night Rush American lines and usually at Night Rush American lines and these soldiers had orders not to let these soldiers had orders not to let these soldiers had orders not to let anybody do that for obvious reasons you anybody do that for obvious reasons you anybody do that for obvious reasons you might be able to live with yourself for might be able to live with yourself for might be able to live with yourself for a long time knowing that you killed an a long time knowing that you killed an a long time knowing that you killed an enemy soldier who was trying to kill you enemy soldier who was trying to kill you enemy soldier who was trying to kill you it's a lot harder as I said about the it's a lot harder as I said about the it's a lot harder as I said about the Vietnam veterans when it's someone Vietnam veterans when it's someone Vietnam veterans when it's someone you're not ready to ever think of you're not ready to ever think of you're not ready to ever think of yourself having participated in snuffing yourself having participated in snuffing yourself having participated in snuffing the lives out of it's one of the things the lives out of it's one of the things the lives out of it's one of the things that creates the extra that creates the extra that creates the extra tragedy in Patrick hey O'Donnell's book

tragedy in Patrick hey O'Donnell's book tragedy in Patrick hey O'Donnell's book into the Rising Sun he interviews a into the Rising Sun he interviews a into the Rising Sun he interviews a bunch of marine veterans who talk about bunch of marine veterans who talk about bunch of marine veterans who talk about these incidents that they remember and these incidents that they remember and these incidents that they remember and you can just see how the killing of you can just see how the killing of you can just see how the killing of civilians can sometimes um get through civilians can sometimes um get through civilians can sometimes um get through the psychological defenses that these the psychological defenses that these the psychological defenses that these soldiers have that might have protected soldiers have that might have protected soldiers have that might have protected them had they been able to say uh you them had they been able to say uh you them had they been able to say uh you know it was it was me against the other know it was it was me against the other know it was it was me against the other Soldier fair fight it's a little Soldier fair fight it's a little Soldier fair fight it's a little different when something like what different when something like what different when something like what happened to Joe mamera from the uh sixth happened to Joe mamera from the uh sixth happened to Joe mamera from the uh sixth Marine Division happens and he's quoted Marine Division happens and he's quoted Marine Division happens and he's quoted in the book as saying quote one night in the book as saying quote one night in the book as saying quote one night there was a bunch of firing they passed there was a bunch of firing they passed there was a bunch of firing they passed the word be alert they're coming through the word be alert they're coming through the word be alert they're coming through the lines the next morning we found out the lines the next morning we found out the lines the next morning we found out it was the civilians that had tried to it was the civilians that had tried to it was the civilians that had tried to come through the lines and they were out come through the lines and they were out come through the lines and they were out in this open field all killed Jesus in this open field all killed Jesus in this open field all killed Jesus Christ dead children women old men they Christ dead children women old men they Christ dead children women old men they said there were Japanese among them said there were Japanese among them said there were Japanese among them forcing them to go we were putting out forcing them to go we were putting out forcing them to go we were putting out pamphlets every day telling them the pamphlets every day telling them the pamphlets every day telling them the okan civilians to stay on the main roads okan civilians to stay on the main roads okan civilians to stay on the main roads and not to come through our lines there and not to come through our lines there and not to come through our lines there were a lot of them killed it was were a lot of them killed it was were a lot of them killed it was horrifying to see dead babies dead horrifying to see dead babies dead horrifying to see dead babies dead children we didn't have anything to do children we didn't have anything to do children we didn't have anything to do with it another group accidentally did with it another group accidentally did with it another group accidentally did it just the thought of all those people it just the thought of all those people it just the thought of all those people you try to get them the civilians out of you try to get them the civilians out of you try to get them the civilians out of the caves also as we were advancing we the caves also as we were advancing we the caves also as we were advancing we knew they were in there and we tried to knew they were in there and we tried to knew they were in there and we tried to get them out if we couldn't we didn't get them out if we couldn't we didn't get them out if we couldn't we didn't know if there were soldiers in there and know if there were soldiers in there and know if there were soldiers in there and tossed in hand grenades in a cave you tossed in hand grenades in a cave you tossed in hand grenades in a cave you don't know who's in there or what don't know who's in there or what don't know who's in there or what they're doing end they're doing end they're doing end quote Elmer Mapes of the sixth Mar

quote Elmer Mapes of the sixth Mar quote Elmer Mapes of the sixth Mar divisions also quoted similar situation divisions also quoted similar situation divisions also quoted similar situation says that they told the people from says that they told the people from says that they told the people from okanawa stay away from the lines you're okanawa stay away from the lines you're okanawa stay away from the lines you're going to get hurt but he says that the going to get hurt but he says that the going to get hurt but he says that the Japanese would put on civilian clothes Japanese would put on civilian clothes Japanese would put on civilian clothes and try to blend in with the crowds or and try to blend in with the crowds or and try to blend in with the crowds or use them as human Shields as we said and use them as human Shields as we said and use them as human Shields as we said and he says quote things were quiet for a he says quote things were quiet for a he says quote things were quiet for a while when all of a sudden just while when all of a sudden just while when all of a sudden just everything started machine guns rifles everything started machine guns rifles everything started machine guns rifles you could hear the screams I wasn't you could hear the screams I wasn't you could hear the screams I wasn't right next to it I was in a foxhole 20 right next to it I was in a foxhole 20 right next to it I was in a foxhole 20 yards or so away after everything yards or so away after everything yards or so away after everything quieted down there was a solitary baby quieted down there was a solitary baby quieted down there was a solitary baby crying just a little tiny baby no other crying just a little tiny baby no other crying just a little tiny baby no other sound the baby was crying in the night sound the baby was crying in the night sound the baby was crying in the night everyone was dead except this poor everyone was dead except this poor everyone was dead except this poor little baby there the mother was little baby there the mother was little baby there the mother was probably probably probably dead end dead end dead end quote Patrick almond is also quoted and quote Patrick almond is also quoted and quote Patrick almond is also quoted and also remembered that same also remembered that same also remembered that same baby you can see how something like that baby you can see how something like that baby you can see how something like that might pierce the normal psychological might pierce the normal psychological might pierce the normal psychological defenses that anyone who has to face defenses that anyone who has to face defenses that anyone who has to face another soldier in combat may have put another soldier in combat may have put another soldier in combat may have put up right it has a way to get through up right it has a way to get through up right it has a way to get through your emotional your emotional your emotional armor one of the things almond said armor one of the things almond said armor one of the things almond said though was running into a sniper who was though was running into a sniper who was though was running into a sniper who was just a child and he says quote the only just a child and he says quote the only just a child and he says quote the only thing I really vividly remember was this thing I really vividly remember was this thing I really vividly remember was this particular sniper he killed three or particular sniper he killed three or particular sniper he killed three or four of my men we located him by the four of my men we located him by the four of my men we located him by the sound of the bolt on his rifle they sound of the bolt on his rifle they sound of the bolt on his rifle they flushed him out with a grenade he was a flushed him out with a grenade he was a flushed him out with a grenade he was a 12-year-old boy his Magazine spring was 12-year-old boy his Magazine spring was 12-year-old boy his Magazine spring was broken so he was only able to slowly broken so he was only able to slowly broken so he was only able to slowly fire one shot at a time he was damn good

fire one shot at a time he was damn good fire one shot at a time he was damn good shot odonnell says he sigh now and then shot odonnell says he sigh now and then shot odonnell says he sigh now and then says the range was only 50 ft the says the range was only 50 ft the says the range was only 50 ft the Japanese had left him there and he did Japanese had left him there and he did Japanese had left him there and he did what they left him to do we shot him what they left him to do we shot him what they left him to do we shot him right there end right there end right there end quote how does one deal with this I was quote how does one deal with this I was quote how does one deal with this I was trying to figure out how I would deal trying to figure out how I would deal trying to figure out how I would deal with it and then while I was reading with it and then while I was reading with it and then while I was reading soldiers soldiers soldiers remembrances of the situation I came remembrances of the situation I came remembrances of the situation I came across one who basically said he had to across one who basically said he had to across one who basically said he had to to to to drink he couldn't continue drink he couldn't continue drink he couldn't continue to exist like this and kill like this to exist like this and kill like this to exist like this and kill like this without something to numb his emotions without something to numb his emotions without something to numb his emotions and in uh the mammoth book of eyewitness and in uh the mammoth book of eyewitness and in uh the mammoth book of eyewitness World War World War World War II edited by John E Lewis he quotes John II edited by John E Lewis he quotes John II edited by John E Lewis he quotes John Garcia from the seventh division of the Garcia from the seventh division of the Garcia from the seventh division of the US infantry so this is an Army soldier US infantry so this is an Army soldier US infantry so this is an Army soldier by the way he's talking about the by the way he's talking about the by the way he's talking about the Japanese General who had committed Japanese General who had committed Japanese General who had committed suicide by the time the fighting is over suicide by the time the fighting is over suicide by the time the fighting is over and he writes quote We buried General and he writes quote We buried General and he writes quote We buried General USI Jima USI Jima USI Jima and his men inside a cave this was the and his men inside a cave this was the and his men inside a cave this was the worst part of the war which I didn't worst part of the war which I didn't worst part of the war which I didn't like about okanawa they were hiding in like about okanawa they were hiding in like about okanawa they were hiding in caves all the time women children caves all the time women children caves all the time women children soldiers we get up on a cliff and lower soldiers we get up on a cliff and lower soldiers we get up on a cliff and lower down barrels of gasoline and then shoot down barrels of gasoline and then shoot down barrels of gasoline and then shoot at it it would explode and just bury at it it would explode and just bury at it it would explode and just bury them to death he continues quote I them to death he continues quote I them to death he continues quote I personally shot one Japanese woman personally shot one Japanese woman personally shot one Japanese woman because she was coming across a field at because she was coming across a field at because she was coming across a field at night we kept dropping leaflets not to night we kept dropping leaflets not to night we kept dropping leaflets not to cross the field at night because we cross the field at night because we cross the field at night because we couldn't hell if they were soldiers we

couldn't hell if they were soldiers we couldn't hell if they were soldiers we would set up a perimeter anything in would set up a perimeter anything in would set up a perimeter anything in front we'd shoot at it this one night I front we'd shoot at it this one night I front we'd shoot at it this one night I shot and when it came daylight it was a shot and when it came daylight it was a shot and when it came daylight it was a woman there and a baby tied to her back woman there and a baby tied to her back woman there and a baby tied to her back the bullet had gone through her and out the bullet had gone through her and out the bullet had gone through her and out the baby's back that still bothers me the baby's back that still bothers me the baby's back that still bothers me that hounds me I still feel I committed that hounds me I still feel I committed that hounds me I still feel I committed murder you see a figure in the dark it's murder you see a figure in the dark it's murder you see a figure in the dark it's stooped over you don't know if it's a stooped over you don't know if it's a stooped over you don't know if it's a soldier or a civilian end quote he soldier or a civilian end quote he soldier or a civilian end quote he continues right from that point point continues right from that point point continues right from that point point quote I was drinking about a fifth and a quote I was drinking about a fifth and a quote I was drinking about a fifth and a half of whiskey every day sometimes half of whiskey every day sometimes half of whiskey every day sometimes homemade sometimes what I could buy it homemade sometimes what I could buy it homemade sometimes what I could buy it was the only way I could kill I had was the only way I could kill I had was the only way I could kill I had friends who were Japanese and I kept friends who were Japanese and I kept friends who were Japanese and I kept thinking every time I pulled a trigger thinking every time I pulled a trigger thinking every time I pulled a trigger on a man or pushed a flamethrower down on a man or pushed a flamethrower down on a man or pushed a flamethrower down into a hole what is this person's family into a hole what is this person's family into a hole what is this person's family going to say when he doesn't come back going to say when he doesn't come back going to say when he doesn't come back he's got a wife he's got children he's got a wife he's got children he's got a wife he's got children somebody end somebody end somebody end quote he continues quote Oh I still lose quote he continues quote Oh I still lose quote he continues quote Oh I still lose nights of sleep because of that woman I nights of sleep because of that woman I nights of sleep because of that woman I shot I still lose a lot of sleep I still shot I still lose a lot of sleep I still shot I still lose a lot of sleep I still dream about her I dreamed about it dream about her I dreamed about it dream about her I dreamed about it perhaps two weeks ago end perhaps two weeks ago end perhaps two weeks ago end quote and then the uh interviewer says quote and then the uh interviewer says quote and then the uh interviewer says he let out a deep breath something more he let out a deep breath something more he let out a deep breath something more turbulent than a turbulent than a turbulent than a sigh those are the remembrances of a sigh those are the remembrances of a sigh those are the remembrances of a man who may have come home with no man who may have come home with no man who may have come home with no visible wounds on his visible wounds on his visible wounds on his body but is clearly bearing some scar body but is clearly bearing some scar body but is clearly bearing some scar STS for the rest of his

STS for the rest of his STS for the rest of his days how many more of those people are days how many more of those people are days how many more of those people are you going to have when you have to you going to have when you have to you going to have when you have to invade the Japanese home islands and invade the Japanese home islands and invade the Japanese home islands and maybe a better question to ask although maybe a better question to ask although maybe a better question to ask although I'm not sure is what is an invasion of I'm not sure is what is an invasion of I'm not sure is what is an invasion of the home Islands going to do to the the home Islands going to do to the the home Islands going to do to the civilians because when you look at what civilians because when you look at what civilians because when you look at what it did to them on okanawa you stand back it did to them on okanawa you stand back it did to them on okanawa you stand back and the hair on the back of your neck and the hair on the back of your neck and the hair on the back of your neck stands stands stands up no one knows how many died by the the up no one knows how many died by the the up no one knows how many died by the the way I mean okanawa has got slightly less way I mean okanawa has got slightly less way I mean okanawa has got slightly less than half a million people during this than half a million people during this than half a million people during this time period and there may have been as time period and there may have been as time period and there may have been as many as 150,000 of them killed the Lan many as 150,000 of them killed the Lan many as 150,000 of them killed the Lan numbers are way down by 30,000 so that numbers are way down by 30,000 so that numbers are way down by 30,000 so that shows you the range here but so many of shows you the range here but so many of shows you the range here but so many of them die in circumstances that them die in circumstances that them die in circumstances that absolutely break your heart and if you absolutely break your heart and if you absolutely break your heart and if you want to read a very disturbing book in want to read a very disturbing book in want to read a very disturbing book in the early 1980s that's my audience right the early 1980s that's my audience right the early 1980s that's my audience right want to read a very disturbing book yes want to read a very disturbing book yes want to read a very disturbing book yes of course we do um in the early 80s a an of course we do um in the early 80s a an of course we do um in the early 80s a an okan nowan newspaper went around and okan nowan newspaper went around and okan nowan newspaper went around and collected the stories of survivors um collected the stories of survivors um collected the stories of survivors um sort of piecing together little bits of sort of piecing together little bits of sort of piecing together little bits of the Mosaic that is this whole affair on the Mosaic that is this whole affair on the Mosaic that is this whole affair on a memory by memory basis and the results a memory by memory basis and the results a memory by memory basis and the results are are are horrific and every story its own horrific and every story its own horrific and every story its own personal Readers Digest survival or not personal Readers Digest survival or not personal Readers Digest survival or not story uh the story of the nurses 14 15 story uh the story of the nurses 14 15 story uh the story of the nurses 14 15 16 years old nursing students and what 16 years old nursing students and what 16 years old nursing students and what they went through and how many of them they went through and how many of them they went through and how many of them died and the horror of that died and the horror of that died and the horror of that the killing of their own wounded which

the killing of their own wounded which the killing of their own wounded which was happening on a widespread basis and was happening on a widespread basis and was happening on a widespread basis and again maybe that's a little glimpse of again maybe that's a little glimpse of again maybe that's a little glimpse of the future here when the Japanese home the future here when the Japanese home the future here when the Japanese home islands are invaded one of the survivors islands are invaded one of the survivors islands are invaded one of the survivors um one of these nurses quoted uh talks um one of these nurses quoted uh talks um one of these nurses quoted uh talks about one of those incidents and in the about one of those incidents and in the about one of those incidents and in the book it says book it says book it says quote the American artillery bombardment quote the American artillery bombardment quote the American artillery bombardment continued throughout April and May so at continued throughout April and May so at continued throughout April and May so at the end of May the naval units moved the end of May the naval units moved the end of May the naval units moved temporarily down south there were many temporarily down south there were many temporarily down south there were many seriously wounded men in the shelter and seriously wounded men in the shelter and seriously wounded men in the shelter and those who were unable to move by those who were unable to move by those who were unable to move by themselves were euthanized with themselves were euthanized with themselves were euthanized with potassium potassium potassium cyanide at the start it was mixed in cyanide at the start it was mixed in cyanide at the start it was mixed in with their food the wounded just lay with their food the wounded just lay with their food the wounded just lay there writhing in agony after one of the there writhing in agony after one of the there writhing in agony after one of the group ate some of the food and died none group ate some of the food and died none group ate some of the food and died none of the others would eat it so the next of the others would eat it so the next of the others would eat it so the next method they tried was injection many men method they tried was injection many men method they tried was injection many men dying from what were passed off as dying from what were passed off as dying from what were passed off as injections for quote the good of your injections for quote the good of your injections for quote the good of your health end quote after watching one of health end quote after watching one of health end quote after watching one of the Wounded men die from his injection the Wounded men die from his injection the Wounded men die from his injection the other patients struggled violently the other patients struggled violently the other patients struggled violently and were held down by several staff and were held down by several staff and were held down by several staff while they were given their while they were given their while they were given their injections toshiko who's one of the injections toshiko who's one of the injections toshiko who's one of the nurses who witnessed all this talked nurses who witnessed all this talked nurses who witnessed all this talked about this as the most horrific of her about this as the most horrific of her about this as the most horrific of her War experiences quote they died almost War experiences quote they died almost War experiences quote they died almost immediately after the injection they immediately after the injection they immediately after the injection they just let out a little sigh or groan just let out a little sigh or groan just let out a little sigh or groan before both hands started to twist and before both hands started to twist and before both hands started to twist and contort end contort end contort end quote this was happening all over the quote this was happening all over the quote this was happening all over the island and in other circumstances the island and in other circumstances the island and in other circumstances the soldiers are being recorded Ed as being soldiers are being recorded Ed as being soldiers are being recorded Ed as being resigned to this

resigned to this resigned to this fate but the part that if you're looking fate but the part that if you're looking fate but the part that if you're looking at okanawa as a preview of the Japanese at okanawa as a preview of the Japanese at okanawa as a preview of the Japanese home islands that most takes your breath home islands that most takes your breath home islands that most takes your breath away it's the group suicides and I away it's the group suicides and I away it's the group suicides and I should point out that you can find should point out that you can find should point out that you can find examples of this I mean there's a lot of examples of this I mean there's a lot of examples of this I mean there's a lot of people in Germany killing themselves uh people in Germany killing themselves uh people in Germany killing themselves uh as the Red Army approaches their as the Red Army approaches their as the Red Army approaches their territories and there's whole books on territories and there's whole books on territories and there's whole books on that but the experience in the Pacific that but the experience in the Pacific that but the experience in the Pacific is different those respond spontaneous is different those respond spontaneous is different those respond spontaneous things in the Pacific it's not always things in the Pacific it's not always things in the Pacific it's not always clear whether this is what the people clear whether this is what the people clear whether this is what the people who are killing themselves want to do who are killing themselves want to do who are killing themselves want to do whether they feel compelled to but would whether they feel compelled to but would whether they feel compelled to but would rather live whether they've been uh fed rather live whether they've been uh fed rather live whether they've been uh fed a bunch of propaganda that makes them a bunch of propaganda that makes them a bunch of propaganda that makes them think they have no think they have no think they have no choice but one of the most horrific choice but one of the most horrific choice but one of the most horrific things I've ever read in my life things I've ever read in my life things I've ever read in my life involves one of these caves where these involves one of these caves where these involves one of these caves where these civilians are Hol Up the Japanese civilians are Hol Up the Japanese civilians are Hol Up the Japanese soldiers give them all a bunch of soldiers give them all a bunch of soldiers give them all a bunch of grenades to kill themselves but there's grenades to kill themselves but there's grenades to kill themselves but there's not enough grenades and and a bunch of not enough grenades and and a bunch of not enough grenades and and a bunch of the ones they they get are duds so they the ones they they get are duds so they the ones they they get are duds so they have to figure out a way without any have to figure out a way without any have to figure out a way without any weapons how they're all going to kill weapons how they're all going to kill weapons how they're all going to kill each other and they're all relate these each other and they're all relate these each other and they're all relate these are family are family are family members and just to make matters worse members and just to make matters worse members and just to make matters worse by the way as soon as the first grenades by the way as soon as the first grenades by the way as soon as the first grenades do go off and these people start do go off and these people start do go off and these people start committing suicide Americans outside the committing suicide Americans outside the committing suicide Americans outside the cave think that they're being attacked cave think that they're being attacked cave think that they're being attacked so they start shooting into the cave so so they start shooting into the cave so so they start shooting into the cave so the civilians are caught between people the civilians are caught between people the civilians are caught between people blowing themselves up in one part of the blowing themselves up in one part of the blowing themselves up in one part of the cave and Americans shooting into the cave and Americans shooting into the cave and Americans shooting into the cave thinking that they're being cave thinking that they're being cave thinking that they're being attacked attacked attacked the man's name by the way is kjo who's the man's name by the way is kjo who's the man's name by the way is kjo who's having this memory and he says that

having this memory and he says that having this memory and he says that between the American shooting from one between the American shooting from one between the American shooting from one side and people blowing themselves up side and people blowing themselves up side and people blowing themselves up from the other he was sort of in a State from the other he was sort of in a State from the other he was sort of in a State of shock but then as his eyes clear he of shock but then as his eyes clear he of shock but then as his eyes clear he notices um a former official who had notices um a former official who had notices um a former official who had picked up a piece of wood and who had picked up a piece of wood and who had picked up a piece of wood and who had started bashing his wife and children started bashing his wife and children started bashing his wife and children with with with it saying that the bizarre suicidal it saying that the bizarre suicidal it saying that the bizarre suicidal environment in that cave had obviously environment in that cave had obviously environment in that cave had obviously turned that man into a mad man man that turned that man into a mad man man that turned that man into a mad man man that he would bash his own wife and children he would bash his own wife and children he would bash his own wife and children to death with a piece of wood but then to death with a piece of wood but then to death with a piece of wood but then they all realize that they need they all realize that they need they all realize that they need something if they don't have a grenade something if they don't have a grenade something if they don't have a grenade to kill themselves and their loved ones to kill themselves and their loved ones to kill themselves and their loved ones with and this is where it gets with and this is where it gets with and this is where it gets mindboggling I mean can you imagine mindboggling I mean can you imagine mindboggling I mean can you imagine having to kill your family members can having to kill your family members can having to kill your family members can you imagine having to do it by hand can you imagine having to do it by hand can you imagine having to do it by hand can you imagine how hard it would be if they you imagine how hard it would be if they you imagine how hard it would be if they just sat there told you they loved you just sat there told you they loved you just sat there told you they loved you and then waited patiently for you to do and then waited patiently for you to do and then waited patiently for you to do it quoting from the account in descent it quoting from the account in descent it quoting from the account in descent into hell now quote into hell now quote into hell now quote those people who had not been able to those people who had not been able to those people who had not been able to take their own lives with grenades were take their own lives with grenades were take their own lives with grenades were worried about being Left Alive they had worried about being Left Alive they had worried about being Left Alive they had to find other ways to kill themselves to find other ways to kill themselves to find other ways to kill themselves and the former Ward Chairman's Behavior and the former Ward Chairman's Behavior and the former Ward Chairman's Behavior the guy who bashed his family had set the guy who bashed his family had set the guy who bashed his family had set the example some used SS and razor the example some used SS and razor the example some used SS and razor blades to slash themselves while others blades to slash themselves while others blades to slash themselves while others strangled themselves with lengths of strangled themselves with lengths of strangled themselves with lengths of rope as the Mayhem unfolded they found rope as the Mayhem unfolded they found rope as the Mayhem unfolded they found all sorts of ways to kill including all sorts of ways to kill including all sorts of ways to kill including bashing others to death with rocks and bashing others to death with rocks and bashing others to death with rocks and sticks many bashed their wives and sticks many bashed their wives and sticks many bashed their wives and parents bashed their children young parents bashed their children young parents bashed their children young people killed the elderly and the strong

people killed the elderly and the strong people killed the elderly and the strong killed the weak what they all felt in killed the weak what they all felt in killed the weak what they all felt in common was the belief that they were common was the belief that they were common was the belief that they were doing this out of love and compassion doing this out of love and compassion doing this out of love and compassion end end end quote then kinjo and his brother have to quote then kinjo and his brother have to quote then kinjo and his brother have to do the same thing to their family do the same thing to their family do the same thing to their family members quote kjo and his elder brother members quote kjo and his elder brother members quote kjo and his elder brother also had to fulfill their role also had to fulfill their role also had to fulfill their role everything that was happening around everything that was happening around everything that was happening around them made them understand understand them made them understand understand them made them understand understand that they had to carry out their Duty as that they had to carry out their Duty as that they had to carry out their Duty as well kjo said quote I think it was our well kjo said quote I think it was our well kjo said quote I think it was our mother we hit first and quote as he and mother we hit first and quote as he and mother we hit first and quote as he and his brother began bashing her in the his brother began bashing her in the his brother began bashing her in the head kinjo screamed out until she became head kinjo screamed out until she became head kinjo screamed out until she became a blur through the tears flowing from a blur through the tears flowing from a blur through the tears flowing from his own eyes for the first time in his his own eyes for the first time in his his own eyes for the first time in his life he wept uncontrollably quote I have life he wept uncontrollably quote I have life he wept uncontrollably quote I have never wailed like that sense end never wailed like that sense end never wailed like that sense end quote the account then says quote the quote the account then says quote the quote the account then says quote the brothers used sticks to R blow after brothers used sticks to R blow after brothers used sticks to R blow after blow on their mother watching her from blow on their mother watching her from blow on their mother watching her from behind as their pounding sent her step behind as their pounding sent her step behind as their pounding sent her step by step towards her death is still a by step towards her death is still a by step towards her death is still a vivid image in kenjo's mind however it vivid image in kenjo's mind however it vivid image in kenjo's mind however it says he has no recollection of what he says he has no recollection of what he says he has no recollection of what he did to his sister and brother after that did to his sister and brother after that did to his sister and brother after that end end end quote imagine finding yourself in a quote imagine finding yourself in a quote imagine finding yourself in a situation like situation like situation like that and now think about how many more that and now think about how many more that and now think about how many more people are going to find themselves in people are going to find themselves in people are going to find themselves in that situation are we to believe that that situation are we to believe that that situation are we to believe that this is going to somehow end on

this is going to somehow end on this is going to somehow end on okanawa or is this a Nostradamus like okanawa or is this a Nostradamus like okanawa or is this a Nostradamus like view of what's still to come for view of what's still to come for view of what's still to come for everyone I was fascinated by some everyone I was fascinated by some everyone I was fascinated by some comments in hamii yara's book The Battle comments in hamii yara's book The Battle comments in hamii yara's book The Battle for okanawa he was a colonel and he in for okanawa he was a colonel and he in for okanawa he was a colonel and he in the book started to ask real the book started to ask real the book started to ask real angry questions about Japan's leadership angry questions about Japan's leadership angry questions about Japan's leadership and how they can let this happen and all and how they can let this happen and all and how they can let this happen and all throughout this series we've been throughout this series we've been throughout this series we've been talking about that too this idea of the talking about that too this idea of the talking about that too this idea of the leadership as just immune sometimes to leadership as just immune sometimes to leadership as just immune sometimes to the suffering of their own people their the suffering of their own people their the suffering of their own people their own own own soldiers Yahara talks about how this soldiers Yahara talks about how this soldiers Yahara talks about how this idea of the Japanese not surrendering idea of the Japanese not surrendering idea of the Japanese not surrendering but killing themselves instead but killing themselves instead but killing themselves instead developed and then says by the second developed and then says by the second developed and then says by the second world war the greater East Asia War as world war the greater East Asia War as world war the greater East Asia War as they call it um this was sort of they call it um this was sort of they call it um this was sort of ingrained and you were ordered to not be ingrained and you were ordered to not be ingrained and you were ordered to not be taken prisoner but he's asking what the taken prisoner but he's asking what the taken prisoner but he's asking what the point is and he writes point is and he writes point is and he writes quote Japan had never lost a war we had quote Japan had never lost a war we had quote Japan had never lost a war we had also never waged a war in which large also never waged a war in which large also never waged a war in which large forces were isolated from Mainland forces were isolated from Mainland forces were isolated from Mainland support thus not to be taken prisoner support thus not to be taken prisoner support thus not to be taken prisoner became a fixed principle part of our became a fixed principle part of our became a fixed principle part of our military education since the middle of military education since the middle of military education since the middle of the greater East Asia War Most Japanese the greater East Asia War Most Japanese the greater East Asia War Most Japanese garrisons in the Pacific Islands ad aded garrisons in the Pacific Islands ad aded garrisons in the Pacific Islands ad aded to this supreme Japanese principle Never to this supreme Japanese principle Never to this supreme Japanese principle Never surrender to the enemy officers and Men surrender to the enemy officers and Men surrender to the enemy officers and Men he writes usually committed suicide as a he writes usually committed suicide as a he writes usually committed suicide as a last resort to avoid the ultimate shame

last resort to avoid the ultimate shame last resort to avoid the ultimate shame of capture our 32nd Army was now faced of capture our 32nd Army was now faced of capture our 32nd Army was now faced with this situation must 100,000 with this situation must 100,000 with this situation must 100,000 soldiers die because of tradition from soldiers die because of tradition from soldiers die because of tradition from this point on he writes it was but a this point on he writes it was but a this point on he writes it was but a battle to kill the remaining Japanese battle to kill the remaining Japanese battle to kill the remaining Japanese soldiers for nothing we could cause the soldiers for nothing we could cause the soldiers for nothing we could cause the enemy little damage that they could walk enemy little damage that they could walk enemy little damage that they could walk freely on the field of battle the war of freely on the field of battle the war of freely on the field of battle the war of attrition was over and we would simply attrition was over and we would simply attrition was over and we would simply be asking the enemy to use his be asking the enemy to use his be asking the enemy to use his formidable power to kill us all indeed formidable power to kill us all indeed formidable power to kill us all indeed he writes it is a high ideal to fight to he writes it is a high ideal to fight to he writes it is a high ideal to fight to the end to maintain National morale but the end to maintain National morale but the end to maintain National morale but were our leaders worth the sacrifice of were our leaders worth the sacrifice of were our leaders worth the sacrifice of an entire an entire an entire people with the end of the war in sight people with the end of the war in sight people with the end of the war in sight they shout at us millions of people must they shout at us millions of people must they shout at us millions of people must die for our nation why are they really die for our nation why are they really die for our nation why are they really aware of the entire War aware of the entire War aware of the entire War situation it was foolish he writes to situation it was foolish he writes to situation it was foolish he writes to force everyone to die simply because force everyone to die simply because force everyone to die simply because Japan had never before lost a war end Japan had never before lost a war end Japan had never before lost a war end quote he says the decision to surrender quote he says the decision to surrender quote he says the decision to surrender should have been made as quickly as should have been made as quickly as should have been made as quickly as possible he says at least before okanawa possible he says at least before okanawa possible he says at least before okanawa was was was lost Colonel Yahara also mentions the lost Colonel Yahara also mentions the lost Colonel Yahara also mentions the American propaganda efforts the uh American propaganda efforts the uh American propaganda efforts the uh attempts to get owans and Japanese to attempts to get owans and Japanese to attempts to get owans and Japanese to surrender to con Vince them that you surrender to con Vince them that you surrender to con Vince them that you know that the Americans are not the know that the Americans are not the know that the Americans are not the terrible monsters they've been told to terrible monsters they've been told to terrible monsters they've been told to be that everyone will be be that everyone will be be that everyone will be safe you may recall that these efforts safe you may recall that these efforts safe you may recall that these efforts were done on were done on were done on sipan and uh they're going to be stepped

sipan and uh they're going to be stepped sipan and uh they're going to be stepped up here enw toll says more than on any up here enw toll says more than on any up here enw toll says more than on any other previous Pacific Battlefield the other previous Pacific Battlefield the other previous Pacific Battlefield the Americans are trying to persuade their Americans are trying to persuade their Americans are trying to persuade their enemies to give up the fight he says enemies to give up the fight he says enemies to give up the fight he says they'll drop tons of leaflets 30,000 in they'll drop tons of leaflets 30,000 in they'll drop tons of leaflets 30,000 in one day one day one day alone that they will mount loudspeak alone that they will mount loudspeak alone that they will mount loudspeak speakers on Jeeps trucks Patrol boats speakers on Jeeps trucks Patrol boats speakers on Jeeps trucks Patrol boats they'll drop loudspeakers with they'll drop loudspeakers with they'll drop loudspeakers with parachutes hoping that the broadcast parachutes hoping that the broadcast parachutes hoping that the broadcast before it hits the ground will before it hits the ground will before it hits the ground will reach people in reach people in reach people in caves he even says uh that they're using caves he even says uh that they're using caves he even says uh that they're using American Japanese citizens to create American Japanese citizens to create American Japanese citizens to create really good translations they're using really good translations they're using really good translations they're using cultural sensitivities to realize how cultural sensitivities to realize how cultural sensitivities to realize how the word surrender might be a sort of a the word surrender might be a sort of a the word surrender might be a sort of a trigger might be the modern term for it trigger might be the modern term for it trigger might be the modern term for it so they don't use the word so they don't use the word so they don't use the word surrender and Colonel y writes quote surrender and Colonel y writes quote surrender and Colonel y writes quote American propaganda was transmitted from American propaganda was transmitted from American propaganda was transmitted from small craft offshore there were daily small craft offshore there were daily small craft offshore there were daily broadcasts INF fluent Japanese now he's broadcasts INF fluent Japanese now he's broadcasts INF fluent Japanese now he's quoting the broadcast okano and quoting the broadcast okano and quoting the broadcast okano and civilians we will guarantee your lives civilians we will guarantee your lives civilians we will guarantee your lives we will give you food and medicine we will give you food and medicine we will give you food and medicine please move toward minoga before it is please move toward minoga before it is please move toward minoga before it is too late alternatively Japanese soldiers too late alternatively Japanese soldiers too late alternatively Japanese soldiers you fought well and proudly for the you fought well and proudly for the you fought well and proudly for the cause of Japan but now the issue of cause of Japan but now the issue of cause of Japan but now the issue of Victory or defeat has been decided to Victory or defeat has been decided to Victory or defeat has been decided to continue the battle is meaningless we continue the battle is meaningless we continue the battle is meaningless we will guarantee your lives please come will guarantee your lives please come will guarantee your lives please come down to the beach and swim out to us end down to the beach and swim out to us end down to the beach and swim out to us end quote Yahara continues by quote Yahara continues by quote Yahara continues by saying thus the enemy struck not only

saying thus the enemy struck not only saying thus the enemy struck not only with broadcasts and shells but also with with broadcasts and shells but also with with broadcasts and shells but also with countless propaganda leaflets dropped countless propaganda leaflets dropped countless propaganda leaflets dropped from the sky none of it showed the from the sky none of it showed the from the sky none of it showed the viciousness so typical of propaganda viciousness so typical of propaganda viciousness so typical of propaganda they said candidly that Japan's defeat they said candidly that Japan's defeat they said candidly that Japan's defeat was inevitable they spoke of Japan's was inevitable they spoke of Japan's was inevitable they spoke of Japan's leader and their indifference to the leader and their indifference to the leader and their indifference to the lives of subordinates end lives of subordinates end lives of subordinates end quote and perhaps one could argue that quote and perhaps one could argue that quote and perhaps one could argue that on on on okanawa they're working at least by the okanawa they're working at least by the okanawa they're working at least by the really tough standards the Japanese have really tough standards the Japanese have really tough standards the Japanese have set for the first time you're going to set for the first time you're going to set for the first time you're going to see a decent number of Japanese soldiers see a decent number of Japanese soldiers see a decent number of Japanese soldiers surrendering and sometimes as units this surrendering and sometimes as units this surrendering and sometimes as units this is unheard of in the Pacific War is unheard of in the Pacific War is unheard of in the Pacific War I think it's something like 11,000 or so I think it's something like 11,000 or so I think it's something like 11,000 or so Japanese surrender but as usual a nice Japanese surrender but as usual a nice Japanese surrender but as usual a nice proportion of those are really Korean proportion of those are really Korean proportion of those are really Korean and Taiwanese laborers impressed into and Taiwanese laborers impressed into and Taiwanese laborers impressed into service but it's like 7,000 Japanese service but it's like 7,000 Japanese service but it's like 7,000 Japanese soldiers which is significant and you soldiers which is significant and you soldiers which is significant and you want to say that this is a sign that as want to say that this is a sign that as want to say that this is a sign that as we've pointed out the Japanese are like we've pointed out the Japanese are like we've pointed out the Japanese are like everyone else only more so it took them everyone else only more so it took them everyone else only more so it took them longer to get to the point of morale longer to get to the point of morale longer to get to the point of morale collapse but here it is but other collapse but here it is but other collapse but here it is but other historians will point out that maybe historians will point out that maybe historians will point out that maybe that's the backwards way of looking at that's the backwards way of looking at that's the backwards way of looking at it rather than and noticing how many you it rather than and noticing how many you it rather than and noticing how many you managed to get to surrender look how managed to get to surrender look how managed to get to surrender look how many many many didn't the Japanese suffer something didn't the Japanese suffer something didn't the Japanese suffer something like 110,000 casualties in okanawa and like 110,000 casualties in okanawa and like 110,000 casualties in okanawa and 100,000 of those are people that either 100,000 of those are people that either 100,000 of those are people that either fought to the death or took their own

fought to the death or took their own fought to the death or took their own lives at the end that's terrifying if lives at the end that's terrifying if lives at the end that's terrifying if you're trying to extrapolate data on you're trying to extrapolate data on you're trying to extrapolate data on what an invasion of Japan's casualty what an invasion of Japan's casualty what an invasion of Japan's casualty rate might look like maybe you think to yourself that like maybe you think to yourself that you don't care what the enemy's casualty you don't care what the enemy's casualty you don't care what the enemy's casualty rate is well what about the rate is well what about the rate is well what about the civilians the numbers of Okana aans who civilians the numbers of Okana aans who civilians the numbers of Okana aans who died range anywhere from died range anywhere from died range anywhere from 30,000 to I've seen 150 160,000 is 30,000 to I've seen 150 160,000 is 30,000 to I've seen 150 160,000 is numbers thrown out there extrapolate that out for Japanese there extrapolate that out for Japanese civilians and maybe you say well listen civilians and maybe you say well listen civilians and maybe you say well listen once again uh this is the enemy side I'm once again uh this is the enemy side I'm once again uh this is the enemy side I'm not going to worry too much about their not going to worry too much about their not going to worry too much about their people okay what about your people okay what about your people okay what about your people and I don't know how many non people and I don't know how many non people and I don't know how many non Americans were going to participate in a Americans were going to participate in a Americans were going to participate in a eventual invasion of Japan but the eventual invasion of Japan but the eventual invasion of Japan but the American casualties on okanawa are American casualties on okanawa are American casualties on okanawa are frightful the worst in the Pacific War frightful the worst in the Pacific War frightful the worst in the Pacific War so far 50,000 casualties so far 50,000 casualties so far 50,000 casualties basically almost 13,000 dead 5,000 basically almost 13,000 dead 5,000 basically almost 13,000 dead 5,000 Sailors Sailors Sailors dead author Richard B Frank had said dead author Richard B Frank had said dead author Richard B Frank had said that the Navy and Marine losses at that the Navy and Marine losses at that the Navy and Marine losses at okanawa by themselves constituted about okanawa by themselves constituted about okanawa by themselves constituted about 177% of all the casualties sustained by 177% of all the casualties sustained by 177% of all the casualties sustained by the Navy and the Marines for the whole the Navy and the Marines for the whole the Navy and the Marines for the whole War so there's an idea of how nasty War so there's an idea of how nasty War so there's an idea of how nasty things things things are oh yeah another sign maybe of sort

are oh yeah another sign maybe of sort are oh yeah another sign maybe of sort of War fatigue is that you can see the of War fatigue is that you can see the of War fatigue is that you can see the casualties the psychological casualties casualties the psychological casualties casualties the psychological casualties on the US side on the US side on the US side Spike I've heard all sorts of uh Spike I've heard all sorts of uh Spike I've heard all sorts of uh possible reasons for this some saying possible reasons for this some saying possible reasons for this some saying that the battlefield in okara was that the battlefield in okara was that the battlefield in okara was sometimes so like a first World War sometimes so like a first World War sometimes so like a first World War battlefield that you started to see a battlefield that you started to see a battlefield that you started to see a lot of the same sort of um combat lot of the same sort of um combat lot of the same sort of um combat fatigue battle fatigue uh psychological fatigue battle fatigue uh psychological fatigue battle fatigue uh psychological casualties that they saw in the first casualties that they saw in the first casualties that they saw in the first world war I've seen others blame it on world war I've seen others blame it on world war I've seen others blame it on the flood of replacement soldiers that the flood of replacement soldiers that the flood of replacement soldiers that the terrible casualties uh necessitated the terrible casualties uh necessitated the terrible casualties uh necessitated I mean the stories are legendary if you I mean the stories are legendary if you I mean the stories are legendary if you read them about how quickly those people read them about how quickly those people read them about how quickly those people tend to die when they arrive in battle tend to die when they arrive in battle tend to die when they arrive in battle the first time they haven't acquired the the first time they haven't acquired the the first time they haven't acquired the skills necessary to survive they always skills necessary to survive they always skills necessary to survive they always remind me when you read the stories of remind me when you read the stories of remind me when you read the stories of those of those sea turtles that have to those of those sea turtles that have to those of those sea turtles that have to hatch on the shore and then run the hatch on the shore and then run the hatch on the shore and then run the gauntlet of predators and threats to gauntlet of predators and threats to gauntlet of predators and threats to make it to the safety of the sea well make it to the safety of the sea well make it to the safety of the sea well those replacement soldiers if they if those replacement soldiers if they if those replacement soldiers if they if they can last a little bit in combat they can last a little bit in combat they can last a little bit in combat will develop the skills necessary to will develop the skills necessary to will develop the skills necessary to survive but combat is so unforgiving survive but combat is so unforgiving survive but combat is so unforgiving that tons of them get wiped out you know that tons of them get wiped out you know that tons of them get wiped out you know very quickly and the old Soldiers don't very quickly and the old Soldiers don't very quickly and the old Soldiers don't ever want to get to know them very well ever want to get to know them very well ever want to get to know them very well because they die so because they die so because they die so fast but it's not just in a military fast but it's not just in a military fast but it's not just in a military sense at all that you're starting to see sense at all that you're starting to see sense at all that you're starting to see the the psychological tension mounting the the psychological tension mounting the the psychological tension mounting um earlier we quoted a letter from a um earlier we quoted a letter from a um earlier we quoted a letter from a mother that Navy secretary forestal had mother that Navy secretary forestal had mother that Navy secretary forestal had released to the public which you know it released to the public which you know it released to the public which you know it cuts right through the emotion of a cuts right through the emotion of a cuts right through the emotion of a personal letter like that cuts right personal letter like that cuts right personal letter like that cuts right through the names and dates and places

through the names and dates and places through the names and dates and places and and uh all the other narrative uh and and uh all the other narrative uh and and uh all the other narrative uh and somehow reestablishes a little bit and somehow reestablishes a little bit and somehow reestablishes a little bit of the emotional connection to the story of the emotional connection to the story of the emotional connection to the story and in uh implacable foes uh historians and in uh implacable foes uh historians and in uh implacable foes uh historians Waldo Henrik and Mark galico do the same Waldo Henrik and Mark galico do the same Waldo Henrik and Mark galico do the same thing they use a a letter as part of thing they use a a letter as part of thing they use a a letter as part of trying to give a sense of how done with trying to give a sense of how done with trying to give a sense of how done with this the American people are I mean this the American people are I mean this the American people are I mean okanawa comes after iima which comes okanawa comes after iima which comes okanawa comes after iima which comes after pelalu I mean these are after pelalu I mean these are after pelalu I mean these are um body blows in terms of a war that um body blows in terms of a war that um body blows in terms of a war that listen if you'd ever been through a listen if you'd ever been through a listen if you'd ever been through a pandemic and you're just ready to take pandemic and you're just ready to take pandemic and you're just ready to take the mask off and go back to normal uh the mask off and go back to normal uh the mask off and go back to normal uh and not have a lot of deaths that's how and not have a lot of deaths that's how and not have a lot of deaths that's how Americans and a lot of people in the Americans and a lot of people in the Americans and a lot of people in the rest of the world are feeling by rest of the world are feeling by rest of the world are feeling by 1945 and Henrik and galico writing this 1945 and Henrik and galico writing this 1945 and Henrik and galico writing this by the way while the okan battle is by the way while the okan battle is by the way while the okan battle is still going on right still going on right still going on right quote the battle for okanawa dragged on quote the battle for okanawa dragged on quote the battle for okanawa dragged on as the casualties mounted so did the as the casualties mounted so did the as the casualties mounted so did the questioning of American strategy in questioning of American strategy in questioning of American strategy in miday following one of his daily War miday following one of his daily War miday following one of his daily War Journal broadcasts radio commentator Journal broadcasts radio commentator Journal broadcasts radio commentator Martin agronsky received an angry letter Martin agronsky received an angry letter Martin agronsky received an angry letter from a Mrs from a Mrs from a Mrs cjh the mother of a soldier on okanawa cjh the mother of a soldier on okanawa cjh the mother of a soldier on okanawa asking why the army war department and asking why the army war department and asking why the army war department and American leaders generally were not American leaders generally were not American leaders generally were not being held accountable for quote all being held accountable for quote all being held accountable for quote all this Slaughter of American boys end this Slaughter of American boys end this Slaughter of American boys end quote an anguished string of questions quote an anguished string of questions quote an anguished string of questions followed now quoting the questions from followed now quoting the questions from followed now quoting the questions from the letter quote why haven't the letter quote why haven't the letter quote why haven't reinforcements reached those boys on

reinforcements reached those boys on reinforcements reached those boys on okanawa why must the same troops fight okanawa why must the same troops fight okanawa why must the same troops fight for 45 days why only six divisions in for 45 days why only six divisions in for 45 days why only six divisions in the first place why must every battle in the first place why must every battle in the first place why must every battle in the Pacific be blooded the Pacific be blooded the Pacific be blooded it was bloody teraa bloody sipan bloody it was bloody teraa bloody sipan bloody it was bloody teraa bloody sipan bloody pelalu bloody Ley bloody iima bloody pelalu bloody Ley bloody iima bloody pelalu bloody Ley bloody iima bloody okanawa bloody minda now all of three okanawa bloody minda now all of three okanawa bloody minda now all of three divisions there she writes bloody Luzon divisions there she writes bloody Luzon divisions there she writes bloody Luzon not finished and it will be bloody not finished and it will be bloody not finished and it will be bloody Borneo doesn't it ever enter anyone's Borneo doesn't it ever enter anyone's Borneo doesn't it ever enter anyone's mind that we are paying a needless too mind that we are paying a needless too mind that we are paying a needless too high a price in human blood in the high a price in human blood in the high a price in human blood in the Pacific end Pacific end Pacific end quote and once again you get the quote and once again you get the quote and once again you get the questions over strategy over the which questions over strategy over the which questions over strategy over the which leader should be in leader should be in leader should be in charge people go after uh General charge people go after uh General charge people go after uh General Buckner and his decision to go head on Buckner and his decision to go head on Buckner and his decision to go head on into the defenses of the Japanese at into the defenses of the Japanese at into the defenses of the Japanese at okanawa rather than try an amphibious okanawa rather than try an amphibious okanawa rather than try an amphibious assault around the flanks but Buckner assault around the flanks but Buckner assault around the flanks but Buckner can't much really respond to that can't much really respond to that can't much really respond to that because he becomes the highest uh because he becomes the highest uh because he becomes the highest uh American general in the war to die in American general in the war to die in American general in the war to die in combat when he's killed uh in an combat when he's killed uh in an combat when he's killed uh in an artillery artillery artillery attack and of course the Japanese attack and of course the Japanese attack and of course the Japanese generals die too they all kill generals die too they all kill generals die too they all kill themselves themselves themselves before the fighting on before the fighting on before the fighting on okanawa is even okanawa is even okanawa is even completed the brand new American completed the brand new American completed the brand new American president still on the job for less than president still on the job for less than president still on the job for less than two months at this point gives a speech two months at this point gives a speech two months at this point gives a speech to the news to the news to the news media you can tell that he seems media you can tell that he seems media you can tell that he seems uncomfortable at this point still with

uncomfortable at this point still with uncomfortable at this point still with scripted announcements and scripted announcements and scripted announcements and cameras and as we recalled earlier I cameras and as we recalled earlier I cameras and as we recalled earlier I mean he's the first American President mean he's the first American President mean he's the first American President without the initials FDR that anyone's without the initials FDR that anyone's without the initials FDR that anyone's experienced in a dozen experienced in a dozen experienced in a dozen years but he gives a warning to Japan years but he gives a warning to Japan years but he gives a warning to Japan the Japanese people in fact the entire the Japanese people in fact the entire the Japanese people in fact the entire world that if you don't want to have the world that if you don't want to have the world that if you don't want to have the same thing happen to you that happened same thing happen to you that happened same thing happen to you that happened to Germany give up to Germany give up to Germany give up now there can be no peace in the world now there can be no peace in the world now there can be no peace in the world until the military power of Japan is until the military power of Japan is until the military power of Japan is destroyed with the same completeness as destroyed with the same completeness as destroyed with the same completeness as was the power of the European was the power of the European was the power of the European dictators to do that we are now engag dictators to do that we are now engag dictators to do that we are now engag engaged in the process of deploying engaged in the process of deploying engaged in the process of deploying millions of our Armed Forces against millions of our Armed Forces against millions of our Armed Forces against Japan in a mass movement of troops and Japan in a mass movement of troops and Japan in a mass movement of troops and supplies and weapons over 14,000 miles a supplies and weapons over 14,000 miles a supplies and weapons over 14,000 miles a military and Naval feet unequaled in all military and Naval feet unequaled in all military and Naval feet unequaled in all history substantial portions of Japan's history substantial portions of Japan's history substantial portions of Japan's key industrial centers have been leveled key industrial centers have been leveled key industrial centers have been leveled to the ground in a series of record to the ground in a series of record to the ground in a series of record incendiary incendiary incendiary raids what has already happened to Tokyo raids what has already happened to Tokyo raids what has already happened to Tokyo will happen to every Japanese City whose will happen to every Japanese City whose will happen to every Japanese City whose Industries feed the Japanese war Industries feed the Japanese war Industries feed the Japanese war machine if the Japanese insist on machine if the Japanese insist on machine if the Japanese insist on continuing resistance beyond the point continuing resistance beyond the point continuing resistance beyond the point of Reason their country will suffer the of Reason their country will suffer the of Reason their country will suffer the same destruction as same destruction as same destruction as Germany our blows will destroy their Germany our blows will destroy their Germany our blows will destroy their whole modern industrial plant and

whole modern industrial plant and whole modern industrial plant and organization which they have built up organization which they have built up organization which they have built up during the past Century and which they during the past Century and which they during the past Century and which they are now devoting to a hopeless are now devoting to a hopeless are now devoting to a hopeless cause we have no desire desire or cause we have no desire desire or cause we have no desire desire or intention to destroy or enslave the intention to destroy or enslave the intention to destroy or enslave the Japanese Japanese Japanese people but only surrender can prevent people but only surrender can prevent people but only surrender can prevent the kind of Ruin which they have seen the kind of Ruin which they have seen the kind of Ruin which they have seen come to Germany as a result of continued come to Germany as a result of continued come to Germany as a result of continued useless resistance the whole situation useless resistance the whole situation useless resistance the whole situation in Germany is creating all sorts of very in Germany is creating all sorts of very in Germany is creating all sorts of very interesting societal and economic interesting societal and economic interesting societal and economic problems around the world and especially problems around the world and especially problems around the world and especially in the United States I mean when you in the United States I mean when you in the United States I mean when you have a war ending in Europe with have a war ending in Europe with have a war ending in Europe with millions of men underarms there what millions of men underarms there what millions of men underarms there what happens to them happens to them happens to them do some fight the Japanese do some get do some fight the Japanese do some get do some fight the Japanese do some get demobilized and what happens to all the demobilized and what happens to all the demobilized and what happens to all the domestic political concerns and labor domestic political concerns and labor domestic political concerns and labor and management issues and all these and management issues and all these and management issues and all these things that have been put on hold as things that have been put on hold as things that have been put on hold as part of the unifying efforts that the part of the unifying efforts that the part of the unifying efforts that the country and many countries did the same country and many countries did the same country and many countries did the same thing put together for the war effort a thing put together for the war effort a thing put together for the war effort a lot of this stuff is starting to rise up lot of this stuff is starting to rise up lot of this stuff is starting to rise up to the surface again before the to the surface again before the to the surface again before the Americans and the Allies have reached Americans and the Allies have reached Americans and the Allies have reached the war's Finish Line here right just the war's Finish Line here right just the war's Finish Line here right just because Germany's defeated doesn't mean because Germany's defeated doesn't mean because Germany's defeated doesn't mean Japan is and as we've said earlier The Japan is and as we've said earlier The Japan is and as we've said earlier The Americans really have to G themselves Americans really have to G themselves Americans really have to G themselves for what's to come because the plans for for what's to come because the plans for for what's to come because the plans for the invasion of Japan are the invasion of Japan are the invasion of Japan are harrowing slated to start in late 1945 harrowing slated to start in late 1945 harrowing slated to start in late 1945 move to the um to the more important move to the um to the more important move to the um to the more important Islands were places like Tokyo are by Islands were places like Tokyo are by Islands were places like Tokyo are by 1946 and the casualty estimates are

1946 and the casualty estimates are 1946 and the casualty estimates are horrific I'm not sure what the proper horrific I'm not sure what the proper horrific I'm not sure what the proper adjective to use is when the high adjective to use is when the high adjective to use is when the high numbers begin to look like a million men numbers begin to look like a million men numbers begin to look like a million men maybe will be casualties maybe will be casualties maybe will be casualties worth pointing out though that even worth pointing out though that even worth pointing out though that even today we argue over what the casualty today we argue over what the casualty today we argue over what the casualty numbers would have been no one knew numbers would have been no one knew numbers would have been no one knew what's more the tendency in the Pacific what's more the tendency in the Pacific what's more the tendency in the Pacific on the Allies part has been to on the Allies part has been to on the Allies part has been to underestimate the casualties that underestimate the casualties that underestimate the casualties that they'll suffer so no one they'll suffer so no one they'll suffer so no one knows the basic plans though that are knows the basic plans though that are knows the basic plans though that are being batted around boil down to two being batted around boil down to two being batted around boil down to two main ideas some people want to blockade main ideas some people want to blockade main ideas some people want to blockade the country which is already under a the country which is already under a the country which is already under a naval blockade to some degree but naval blockade to some degree but naval blockade to some degree but tighten that have ships just keep tighten that have ships just keep tighten that have ships just keep everything from coming in fuel medicine everything from coming in fuel medicine everything from coming in fuel medicine food everything starve them to food everything starve them to food everything starve them to death and then keep bombing them the way death and then keep bombing them the way death and then keep bombing them the way you're bombing them this may sound by you're bombing them this may sound by you're bombing them this may sound by the way like a merciful strategy the way like a merciful strategy the way like a merciful strategy blockades often do sound like the lesser blockades often do sound like the lesser blockades often do sound like the lesser of two evils but ask anyone who's ever of two evils but ask anyone who's ever of two evils but ask anyone who's ever lived through one um when you start lived through one um when you start lived through one um when you start denying food and medicine to people you denying food and medicine to people you denying food and medicine to people you have a horrific have a horrific have a horrific circumstance without any bombs circumstance without any bombs circumstance without any bombs exploding and in the blockade and exploding and in the blockade and exploding and in the blockade and bombing scenario you're still going to bombing scenario you're still going to bombing scenario you're still going to have Japanese cities burned out have Japanese cities burned out have Japanese cities burned out the other idea is to bomb them the way the other idea is to bomb them the way the other idea is to bomb them the way you're bombing them and then invade both you're bombing them and then invade both you're bombing them and then invade both of those ideas have huge downsides uh of those ideas have huge downsides uh of those ideas have huge downsides uh the Navy certainly understands after the Navy certainly understands after the Navy certainly understands after okanawa that they're going to be facing okanawa that they're going to be facing okanawa that they're going to be facing constant and withering attacks from constant and withering attacks from constant and withering attacks from kamakazi when they invade the home kamakazi when they invade the home kamakazi when they invade the home Islands right they had 40 straight days Islands right they had 40 straight days Islands right they had 40 straight days at one point on okanawa that's going to at one point on okanawa that's going to at one point on okanawa that's going to be something that whittles down strength

be something that whittles down strength be something that whittles down strength and kills a lot of sailors over a long and kills a lot of sailors over a long and kills a lot of sailors over a long period of period of period of time but an invasion with ground time but an invasion with ground time but an invasion with ground troops this this is a terrifying concept troops this this is a terrifying concept troops this this is a terrifying concept and no one knows how many people might and no one knows how many people might and no one knows how many people might die in something like die in something like die in something like that in July 1945 a bunch of things that in July 1945 a bunch of things that in July 1945 a bunch of things happened that change the situation happened that change the situation happened that change the situation somewhat and clarify it somewhat and clarify it somewhat and clarify it somewhat two of these things overlap by somewhat two of these things overlap by somewhat two of these things overlap by the way there's going to be a very big the way there's going to be a very big the way there's going to be a very big conference in poam outside of Berlin in conference in poam outside of Berlin in conference in poam outside of Berlin in Germany that now you know in Ruins Germany that now you know in Ruins Germany that now you know in Ruins Germany where the leaders of the Allied Germany where the leaders of the Allied Germany where the leaders of the Allied Camp Stalin uh Truman now and his first Camp Stalin uh Truman now and his first Camp Stalin uh Truman now and his first one of these things and uh Churchill in one of these things and uh Churchill in one of these things and uh Churchill in his last one he'll actually lose the his last one he'll actually lose the his last one he'll actually lose the election during it and be replaced by election during it and be replaced by election during it and be replaced by his successor Midway through the his successor Midway through the his successor Midway through the conference they had this conference conference they had this conference conference they had this conference that's mostly about what we do in Europe that's mostly about what we do in Europe that's mostly about what we do in Europe what's the post-war situation look like what's the post-war situation look like what's the post-war situation look like oh yeah and what about the Japanese who oh yeah and what about the Japanese who oh yeah and what about the Japanese who are still are still are still fighting when the conference is ongoing fighting when the conference is ongoing fighting when the conference is ongoing something happens back in the United something happens back in the United something happens back in the United States that changes the whole equation States that changes the whole equation States that changes the whole equation and Churchill has to be informed about and Churchill has to be informed about and Churchill has to be informed about this uh the Manhattan Project proves to this uh the Manhattan Project proves to this uh the Manhattan Project proves to be successful in an atomic bomb test in be successful in an atomic bomb test in be successful in an atomic bomb test in New Mexico New Mexico New Mexico goes off without a goes off without a goes off without a hitch and the world enters into the hitch and the world enters into the hitch and the world enters into the nuclear ERA with very very few human nuclear ERA with very very few human nuclear ERA with very very few human beings on the planet Earth realizing it beings on the planet Earth realizing it beings on the planet Earth realizing it Churchill finds out afterwards that the Churchill finds out afterwards that the Churchill finds out afterwards that the test which no one knew how it was going test which no one knew how it was going test which no one knew how it was going to turn out how it went and he wrote to turn out how it went and he wrote to turn out how it went and he wrote about it in his history of the Second about it in his history of the Second about it in his history of the Second World War and said this quote the

World War and said this quote the World War and said this quote the president meaning Truman invited me to president meaning Truman invited me to president meaning Truman invited me to confer with him forthwith he had with confer with him forthwith he had with confer with him forthwith he had with him General Marshall and Admiral Ley up him General Marshall and Admiral Ley up him General Marshall and Admiral Ley up to this moment we had shaped our ideas to this moment we had shaped our ideas to this moment we had shaped our ideas towards an assault upon the homeland of towards an assault upon the homeland of towards an assault upon the homeland of Japan by terrific air bombing and by the Japan by terrific air bombing and by the Japan by terrific air bombing and by the invasion of very large armies we had invasion of very large armies we had invasion of very large armies we had contemplated the desperate resistance of contemplated the desperate resistance of contemplated the desperate resistance of the Japanese fighting to the death with the Japanese fighting to the death with the Japanese fighting to the death with Samurai devotion not only in pitched Samurai devotion not only in pitched Samurai devotion not only in pitched battles but in every cave and Dugout I battles but in every cave and Dugout I battles but in every cave and Dugout I had in my mind he writes the spectacle had in my mind he writes the spectacle had in my mind he writes the spectacle of okanawa Island where many thousands of okanawa Island where many thousands of okanawa Island where many thousands of Japanese rather than surrender had of Japanese rather than surrender had of Japanese rather than surrender had drawn up in line and destroyed drawn up in line and destroyed drawn up in line and destroyed themselves by hand grenades after their themselves by hand grenades after their themselves by hand grenades after their leaders had solemnly performed the right leaders had solemnly performed the right leaders had solemnly performed the right of suicide is what he means to quell the of suicide is what he means to quell the of suicide is what he means to quell the Japanese resistance Man by man and Japanese resistance Man by man and Japanese resistance Man by man and conquer the country yard by yard might conquer the country yard by yard might conquer the country yard by yard might well require the loss of a million well require the loss of a million well require the loss of a million American lives and half that number of American lives and half that number of American lives and half that number of British or more if we could get them British or more if we could get them British or more if we could get them there for we were resolved to share the there for we were resolved to share the there for we were resolved to share the agony now all this nightmare picture had agony now all this nightmare picture had agony now all this nightmare picture had vanished in its place was the vision vanished in its place was the vision vanished in its place was the vision fair and bright indeed it seemed of the fair and bright indeed it seemed of the fair and bright indeed it seemed of the end of the whole war in one or two end of the whole war in one or two end of the whole war in one or two violent shocks I thought immediately violent shocks I thought immediately violent shocks I thought immediately myself of how the Japanese people whose myself of how the Japanese people whose myself of how the Japanese people whose courage I had always admired might find courage I had always admired might find courage I had always admired might find in The Apparition of this almost in The Apparition of this almost in The Apparition of this almost supernatural weapon an excuse which supernatural weapon an excuse which supernatural weapon an excuse which would save their honor and release them would save their honor and release them would save their honor and release them from their obligation of being killed to

from their obligation of being killed to from their obligation of being killed to the last Fighting Man end quote the last Fighting Man end quote the last Fighting Man end quote I have a hard time here in the 21st I have a hard time here in the 21st I have a hard time here in the 21st century squaring the moral Circle century squaring the moral Circle century squaring the moral Circle between the idea of a fair and Bright between the idea of a fair and Bright between the idea of a fair and Bright Vision as Churchill terms it and Vision as Churchill terms it and Vision as Churchill terms it and dropping atomic bombs on dropping atomic bombs on dropping atomic bombs on people but people but people but perhaps this should be taken into perhaps this should be taken into perhaps this should be taken into account that I'm not living in a world account that I'm not living in a world account that I'm not living in a world where cities are being bombed and where cities are being bombed and where cities are being bombed and incinerated multiple times a week and incinerated multiple times a week and incinerated multiple times a week and Churchill and these Allied Leaders Churchill and these Allied Leaders Churchill and these Allied Leaders making these decisions making these decisions making these decisions are what to them might seem a an are what to them might seem a an are what to them might seem a an incremental Step Up in nastiness to us incremental Step Up in nastiness to us incremental Step Up in nastiness to us seems like something that should never seems like something that should never seems like something that should never ever ever be ever ever be ever ever be done now someone might say we're done now someone might say we're done now someone might say we're reacting to this emotionally and in the reacting to this emotionally and in the reacting to this emotionally and in the time period where they're operating time period where they're operating time period where they're operating they're using logic right this is the they're using logic right this is the they're using logic right this is the human being lawnmower logic isn't it the human being lawnmower logic isn't it the human being lawnmower logic isn't it the idea that anything that puts a halt to idea that anything that puts a halt to idea that anything that puts a halt to the conveyor belt of death and saves the conveyor belt of death and saves the conveyor belt of death and saves more lives long term is the greater more lives long term is the greater more lives long term is the greater moral moral moral good but you got to do some really good but you got to do some really good but you got to do some really horrific things to get there I mean look horrific things to get there I mean look horrific things to get there I mean look how it perverts the entire goals of this how it perverts the entire goals of this how it perverts the entire goals of this atomic bomb I mean in a way if the goal atomic bomb I mean in a way if the goal atomic bomb I mean in a way if the goal here and it is is to shock a stubborn here and it is is to shock a stubborn here and it is is to shock a stubborn Japanese leadership into finally seeing Japanese leadership into finally seeing Japanese leadership into finally seeing the light here that they've lost the war the light here that they've lost the war the light here that they've lost the war a little like slapping a hysterical a little like slapping a hysterical a little like slapping a hysterical patient you know to get them to calm patient you know to get them to calm patient you know to get them to calm down enough to take in reality you want

down enough to take in reality you want down enough to take in reality you want this bomb to be as horrible and terrible this bomb to be as horrible and terrible this bomb to be as horrible and terrible as possible the worse it is the more as possible the worse it is the more as possible the worse it is the more likely it is that it's going to do its likely it is that it's going to do its likely it is that it's going to do its job of being a monkey wrench into the job of being a monkey wrench into the job of being a monkey wrench into the gears of this conveyor belt of gears of this conveyor belt of gears of this conveyor belt of death it's a really weird place that The death it's a really weird place that The death it's a really weird place that The Logical chain of thinking can get you to Logical chain of thinking can get you to Logical chain of thinking can get you to arrive at isn't it we called it logical arrive at isn't it we called it logical arrive at isn't it we called it logical Insanity in the shows that we did on Insanity in the shows that we did on Insanity in the shows that we did on this evolution of the logic of things this evolution of the logic of things this evolution of the logic of things like strategic bombing but this is a lot like strategic bombing but this is a lot like strategic bombing but this is a lot bigger than that this goes to The Human bigger than that this goes to The Human bigger than that this goes to The Human Experience on so many levels I mean Gwen Experience on so many levels I mean Gwen Experience on so many levels I mean Gwen died in his book War said that what's died in his book War said that what's died in his book War said that what's being done with things like atomic being done with things like atomic being done with things like atomic bombings and fire bombings that this is bombings and fire bombings that this is bombings and fire bombings that this is just the natural extension of what human just the natural extension of what human just the natural extension of what human beings have always done the weapons are beings have always done the weapons are beings have always done the weapons are just a lot more horrific than they used just a lot more horrific than they used just a lot more horrific than they used to to to be but I can't stop thinking about the be but I can't stop thinking about the be but I can't stop thinking about the idea about personal experience all these idea about personal experience all these idea about personal experience all these people making these decisions are doing people making these decisions are doing people making these decisions are doing so from a theoretical background as far so from a theoretical background as far so from a theoretical background as far as I know none of them have ever lived as I know none of them have ever lived as I know none of them have ever lived through a firebombing or God forbid an through a firebombing or God forbid an through a firebombing or God forbid an atomic atomic atomic attack what if they had would they still attack what if they had would they still attack what if they had would they still feel like this was the right decision to feel like this was the right decision to feel like this was the right decision to make would they still feel like this was make would they still feel like this was make would they still feel like this was a bright and fair a bright and fair a bright and fair [Music] [Music] [Music] vision and I can hear people saying well vision and I can hear people saying well vision and I can hear people saying well you know then you're just making you know then you're just making you know then you're just making decisions from emotion rather than logic decisions from emotion rather than logic decisions from emotion rather than logic but look where logic has gotten us the but look where logic has gotten us the but look where logic has gotten us the emotional reactions to something like an emotional reactions to something like an emotional reactions to something like an atomic bombing when you read them today

atomic bombing when you read them today atomic bombing when you read them today they're the the ones that sound sane they're the the ones that sound sane they're the the ones that sound sane it's The Logical decisions that seem it's The Logical decisions that seem it's The Logical decisions that seem crazy historian Michael best in his book crazy historian Michael best in his book crazy historian Michael best in his book choices Under Fire moral dimensions of choices Under Fire moral dimensions of choices Under Fire moral dimensions of World War II reminds us not to forget World War II reminds us not to forget World War II reminds us not to forget the equivalent of being on the ground the equivalent of being on the ground the equivalent of being on the ground rather than making this too intellectual rather than making this too intellectual rather than making this too intellectual of a discussion and he writes quote of a discussion and he writes quote of a discussion and he writes quote sometimes as we engage in the sometimes as we engage in the sometimes as we engage in the intellectual exercise of trying to intellectual exercise of trying to intellectual exercise of trying to understand the complexities of the war understand the complexities of the war understand the complexities of the war we can become inur to the underlying we can become inur to the underlying we can become inur to the underlying realities this psychological distancing realities this psychological distancing realities this psychological distancing from our subject no doubt reflects in a from our subject no doubt reflects in a from our subject no doubt reflects in a small way the manner in which the small way the manner in which the small way the manner in which the wartime leaders themselves gradually wartime leaders themselves gradually wartime leaders themselves gradually became callous to the Dreadful acts that became callous to the Dreadful acts that became callous to the Dreadful acts that were being perpetrated all around them were being perpetrated all around them were being perpetrated all around them and that they themselves were and that they themselves were and that they themselves were perpetrating as we analyze the wartime perpetrating as we analyze the wartime perpetrating as we analyze the wartime decisions we catch ourselves to our decisions we catch ourselves to our decisions we catch ourselves to our shock tossing around numbers of dead shock tossing around numbers of dead shock tossing around numbers of dead human beings 10,000 here 100,000 there human beings 10,000 here 100,000 there human beings 10,000 here 100,000 there almost as unfeelingly as the almost as unfeelingly as the almost as unfeelingly as the participants themselves this tendency participants themselves this tendency participants themselves this tendency towards psychological numbing is towards psychological numbing is towards psychological numbing is understandable and perhaps unavoidable understandable and perhaps unavoidable understandable and perhaps unavoidable but we need to resist it as vigorously but we need to resist it as vigorously but we need to resist it as vigorously as we can we must keep reminding as we can we must keep reminding as we can we must keep reminding ourselves what it really means in ourselves what it really means in ourselves what it really means in practice to speak the words Firestorm or practice to speak the words Firestorm or practice to speak the words Firestorm or Hiroshima for hidden beneath the Hiroshima for hidden beneath the Hiroshima for hidden beneath the abstraction of the words words grown abstraction of the words words grown abstraction of the words words grown customary from heavy use lie the

customary from heavy use lie the customary from heavy use lie the unimaginable cruelty and Madness of what unimaginable cruelty and Madness of what unimaginable cruelty and Madness of what actually happened end actually happened end actually happened end quote Ian W toll in his book Twilight of quote Ian W toll in his book Twilight of quote Ian W toll in his book Twilight of the Gods gives one of the better overall the Gods gives one of the better overall the Gods gives one of the better overall descriptions of this when on August 6th descriptions of this when on August 6th descriptions of this when on August 6th 1945 the first atomic bombing attack in 1945 the first atomic bombing attack in 1945 the first atomic bombing attack in human history occurs and he writes human history occurs and he writes human history occurs and he writes quote little boy the uranium bomb quote little boy the uranium bomb quote little boy the uranium bomb dropped on Hiroshima that's the nickname dropped on Hiroshima that's the nickname dropped on Hiroshima that's the nickname little boy exploded at 8:16 a.m. 1870 ft little boy exploded at 8:16 a.m. 1870 ft little boy exploded at 8:16 a.m. 1870 ft above the ground only 550 ft wide of its above the ground only 550 ft wide of its above the ground only 550 ft wide of its aiming point the nuclear Chain Reaction aiming point the nuclear Chain Reaction aiming point the nuclear Chain Reaction it triggered created a core temperature it triggered created a core temperature it triggered created a core temperature of about 1 million de C igniting the air of about 1 million de C igniting the air of about 1 million de C igniting the air around it to a diameter of nearly a around it to a diameter of nearly a around it to a diameter of nearly a kilometer the fireball engulfed the kilometer the fireball engulfed the kilometer the fireball engulfed the center of the city vaporizing about center of the city vaporizing about center of the city vaporizing about 20,000 people on the ground thermal and 20,000 people on the ground thermal and 20,000 people on the ground thermal and ionizing radiation killed virtually all ionizing radiation killed virtually all ionizing radiation killed virtually all people within a kilometer of the surface people within a kilometer of the surface people within a kilometer of the surface of the fireball burning them to death or of the fireball burning them to death or of the fireball burning them to death or rupturing their internal organs farther rupturing their internal organs farther rupturing their internal organs farther out in successive concentric circles out in successive concentric circles out in successive concentric circles around the epicenter people were exposed around the epicenter people were exposed around the epicenter people were exposed to gamma rays Neutron radiation flash to gamma rays Neutron radiation flash to gamma rays Neutron radiation flash burns the blast wave and burns the blast wave and burns the blast wave and firestorms the initial shock wave he firestorms the initial shock wave he firestorms the initial shock wave he writes raced away from the epicenter at writes raced away from the epicenter at writes raced away from the epicenter at greater than the speed of sound some 984 greater than the speed of sound some 984 greater than the speed of sound some 984 mph to street cars were lifted from

mph to street cars were lifted from mph to street cars were lifted from their tracks and Scattered like toys their tracks and Scattered like toys their tracks and Scattered like toys clothing was torn from bodies nearly all clothing was torn from bodies nearly all clothing was torn from bodies nearly all wooden buildings within 2.3 km were wooden buildings within 2.3 km were wooden buildings within 2.3 km were completely leveled and about half of all completely leveled and about half of all completely leveled and about half of all such buildings to a radius of 3.2 kilm such buildings to a radius of 3.2 kilm such buildings to a radius of 3.2 kilm later investigators found the shadows of later investigators found the shadows of later investigators found the shadows of people caught within the inner radius people caught within the inner radius people caught within the inner radius around the hypo Center they had been around the hypo Center they had been around the hypo Center they had been vaporized but their bodies had left vaporized but their bodies had left vaporized but their bodies had left faint silhouettes on the pavement or on faint silhouettes on the pavement or on faint silhouettes on the pavement or on nearby walls end nearby walls end nearby walls end quote basically the atomic attack quote basically the atomic attack quote basically the atomic attack combined the bad side of the firestorms combined the bad side of the firestorms combined the bad side of the firestorms because the fires um from the because the fires um from the because the fires um from the superheated everything exploded very superheated everything exploded very superheated everything exploded very quickly with horrific concussive blast quickly with horrific concussive blast quickly with horrific concussive blast damage like you would have in major damage like you would have in major damage like you would have in major bombings and then added just as a bombings and then added just as a bombings and then added just as a sprinkling of extra specialness on top sprinkling of extra specialness on top sprinkling of extra specialness on top horrible dispersion of horrible dispersion of horrible dispersion of radioactivity the stories all sound like radioactivity the stories all sound like radioactivity the stories all sound like people who are living through a natural people who are living through a natural people who are living through a natural disaster but now human beings can create disaster but now human beings can create disaster but now human beings can create the equivalent of natural the equivalent of natural the equivalent of natural disasters the effects of the bomb manag disasters the effects of the bomb manag disasters the effects of the bomb manag to take out most of the First Responders to take out most of the First Responders to take out most of the First Responders the hospitals the doctors the the hospitals the doctors the the hospitals the doctors the firefighters everyone who might actually firefighters everyone who might actually firefighters everyone who might actually go out and improve the situation which go out and improve the situation which go out and improve the situation which leaves the people in a horrific leaves the people in a horrific leaves the people in a horrific situation for weeks situation for weeks situation for weeks afterwards as they die from radiation afterwards as they die from radiation afterwards as they die from radiation and the heartbreaking stories this is and the heartbreaking stories this is and the heartbreaking stories this is what I mean about if you could take what I mean about if you could take what I mean about if you could take these people who saw this as such a

these people who saw this as such a these people who saw this as such a wonderful logical way to get the wonderful logical way to get the wonderful logical way to get the Japanese to end the war if you could Japanese to end the war if you could Japanese to end the war if you could have put Winston Churchill on the ground have put Winston Churchill on the ground have put Winston Churchill on the ground there and let him watch the scene going there and let him watch the scene going there and let him watch the scene going on as people trapped in burning on as people trapped in burning on as people trapped in burning buildings with their loved ones trying buildings with their loved ones trying buildings with their loved ones trying to get them out had to be abandoned cuz to get them out had to be abandoned cuz to get them out had to be abandoned cuz the Flames were coming one of the most the Flames were coming one of the most the Flames were coming one of the most horrific stories connected with the horrific stories connected with the horrific stories connected with the hirosima bombing involves kids who are hirosima bombing involves kids who are hirosima bombing involves kids who are caught in the rubble as the fires caught in the rubble as the fires caught in the rubble as the fires approach and the parents don't even know approach and the parents don't even know approach and the parents don't even know what what to do I mean there's the what what to do I mean there's the what what to do I mean there's the theoretical understanding what it means theoretical understanding what it means theoretical understanding what it means to drop a bomb on a city and then to drop a bomb on a city and then to drop a bomb on a city and then there's the reality of something like there's the reality of something like there's the reality of something like this in the book hibakusha survivors of this in the book hibakusha survivors of this in the book hibakusha survivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki which is just Hiroshima and Nagasaki which is just Hiroshima and Nagasaki which is just remembrances by people one of these remembrances by people one of these remembrances by people one of these survivors Shiga hiratsuka talks about survivors Shiga hiratsuka talks about survivors Shiga hiratsuka talks about the bomb the bomb the bomb exploding and says quote just then a exploding and says quote just then a exploding and says quote just then a brilliant flash like lightning appeared brilliant flash like lightning appeared brilliant flash like lightning appeared in the thunderous Roar of an explosion in the thunderous Roar of an explosion in the thunderous Roar of an explosion reverberated around us in a moment our reverberated around us in a moment our reverberated around us in a moment our house collapsed and we found ourselves house collapsed and we found ourselves house collapsed and we found ourselves buried in its Rubble as my husband and I buried in its Rubble as my husband and I buried in its Rubble as my husband and I worked frantically to free ourselves I worked frantically to free ourselves I worked frantically to free ourselves I heard a cry for help from the woman next heard a cry for help from the woman next heard a cry for help from the woman next door I called back to her if we get out door I called back to her if we get out door I called back to her if we get out before you we'll come and help you when before you we'll come and help you when before you we'll come and help you when we did finally pull ourselves free we we did finally pull ourselves free we we did finally pull ourselves free we saw the city of Hiroshima in Ruins saw the city of Hiroshima in Ruins saw the city of Hiroshima in Ruins around us nowhere was a building left around us nowhere was a building left around us nowhere was a building left intact and in several places tongues of intact and in several places tongues of intact and in several places tongues of fire had begin licking outward suddenly fire had begin licking outward suddenly fire had begin licking outward suddenly panic stricken and completely forgetting panic stricken and completely forgetting panic stricken and completely forgetting about our neighbor I began searching for

about our neighbor I began searching for about our neighbor I began searching for my children she continues as I was my children she continues as I was my children she continues as I was calling their names a voice emerged from calling their names a voice emerged from calling their names a voice emerged from a spot 2 or three meters away help mommy a spot 2 or three meters away help mommy a spot 2 or three meters away help mommy help it was my six-year-old daughter help it was my six-year-old daughter help it was my six-year-old daughter kazuko hurrying to the spot I found her kazuko hurrying to the spot I found her kazuko hurrying to the spot I found her tightly wedged from the chest down by tightly wedged from the chest down by tightly wedged from the chest down by Fallen plaster and Timber I screamed to Fallen plaster and Timber I screamed to Fallen plaster and Timber I screamed to my husband to come quickly and do my husband to come quickly and do my husband to come quickly and do something he however could hardly move something he however could hardly move something he however could hardly move being badly bruised and bleeding from being badly bruised and bleeding from being badly bruised and bleeding from the shoulder he had no strength left it the shoulder he had no strength left it the shoulder he had no strength left it was all he could do to walk she was all he could do to walk she was all he could do to walk she continues and once again I imagine continues and once again I imagine continues and once again I imagine Winston Churchill and all the other Winston Churchill and all the other Winston Churchill and all the other decision makers standing to the side decision makers standing to the side decision makers standing to the side watching this unfold quote my daughter watching this unfold quote my daughter watching this unfold quote my daughter kept calling to me it hurts mommy my kept calling to me it hurts mommy my kept calling to me it hurts mommy my legs hurt I can't move hurry and get me legs hurt I can't move hurry and get me legs hurt I can't move hurry and get me out I tugged at her but could not move out I tugged at her but could not move out I tugged at her but could not move her no matter how desperately I tried I her no matter how desperately I tried I her no matter how desperately I tried I just could not free her the fires were just could not free her the fires were just could not free her the fires were moving closer and closer we would not be moving closer and closer we would not be moving closer and closer we would not be able to stay there much longer finally able to stay there much longer finally able to stay there much longer finally when the Flames began to lap around when the Flames began to lap around when the Flames began to lap around around us we were stirred into moving no around us we were stirred into moving no around us we were stirred into moving no longer able to stand the intense heat I longer able to stand the intense heat I longer able to stand the intense heat I realized I was afraid to die I could not realized I was afraid to die I could not realized I was afraid to die I could not let myself be burned alive tears let myself be burned alive tears let myself be burned alive tears streaming from my eyes I placed my hands streaming from my eyes I placed my hands streaming from my eyes I placed my hands together as if in prayer and asked my together as if in prayer and asked my together as if in prayer and asked my daughter to forgive me Kazu I am a bad daughter to forgive me Kazu I am a bad daughter to forgive me Kazu I am a bad mother to you but please forgive me you mother to you but please forgive me you mother to you but please forgive me you don't want to die either I know Mommy don't want to die either I know Mommy don't want to die either I know Mommy isn't brave enough to stay here and die isn't brave enough to stay here and die isn't brave enough to stay here and die with you I'm afraid of the fire Kazu with you I'm afraid of the fire Kazu with you I'm afraid of the fire Kazu forgive me forgive me then I chose an forgive me forgive me then I chose an forgive me forgive me then I chose an area that seemed to be safe safe from area that seemed to be safe safe from area that seemed to be safe safe from fire and fled towards it pulling my fire and fled towards it pulling my fire and fled towards it pulling my husband Along by the hand I kept looking

husband Along by the hand I kept looking husband Along by the hand I kept looking back at the ruins of our house as if I back at the ruins of our house as if I back at the ruins of our house as if I were being dragged by the hair from were being dragged by the hair from were being dragged by the hair from behind there had been no time to rescue behind there had been no time to rescue behind there had been no time to rescue our other child either end our other child either end our other child either end quote she spent the rest of the evening quote she spent the rest of the evening quote she spent the rest of the evening uttering apologies to her dead uttering apologies to her dead uttering apologies to her dead children and then her husband children and then her husband children and then her husband died this is one of many I always died this is one of many I always died this is one of many I always describe it as a mosaic right and describe it as a mosaic right and describe it as a mosaic right and everybody's individual story of how they everybody's individual story of how they everybody's individual story of how they dealt with this human-caused version of dealt with this human-caused version of dealt with this human-caused version of a natural disaster when you put them a natural disaster when you put them a natural disaster when you put them together into the Mosaic you get a together into the Mosaic you get a together into the Mosaic you get a picture it's a lot of individual stories picture it's a lot of individual stories picture it's a lot of individual stories but look at the stories and imagine if but look at the stories and imagine if but look at the stories and imagine if maybe emotion could have maybe emotion could have maybe emotion could have stirred the decision makers rather than stirred the decision makers rather than stirred the decision makers rather than logic but once again to what end to logic but once again to what end to logic but once again to what end to allow a blockade to happen to starve allow a blockade to happen to starve allow a blockade to happen to starve people to allow an invasion to happen people to allow an invasion to happen people to allow an invasion to happen where the citizens of Japan are killed where the citizens of Japan are killed where the citizens of Japan are killed in house-to house in house-to house in house-to house fighting what you're really getting here fighting what you're really getting here fighting what you're really getting here if we wanted to look at this through the if we wanted to look at this through the if we wanted to look at this through the long-term long-term long-term lens is a vision of a future to be avoided in that same book avoided in that same book hibakusha Akira nagasaka is quoted he hibakusha Akira nagasaka is quoted he hibakusha Akira nagasaka is quoted he tries to go back home and find his house tries to go back home and find his house tries to go back home and find his house and his relatives after the bombing and and his relatives after the bombing and and his relatives after the bombing and describes what is not that hard to describes what is not that hard to describes what is not that hard to imagine our future looking like if imagine our future looking like if imagine our future looking like if everything goes poorly and he writes

everything goes poorly and he writes everything goes poorly and he writes quote the area around urakami cathedral quote the area around urakami cathedral quote the area around urakami cathedral was completely burned out and the heat was completely burned out and the heat was completely burned out and the heat prevented me from approaching it was not prevented me from approaching it was not prevented me from approaching it was not until early the next morning that I made until early the next morning that I made until early the next morning that I made my way to what appeared to be the ruins my way to what appeared to be the ruins my way to what appeared to be the ruins of our house the whole area was a fire of our house the whole area was a fire of our house the whole area was a fire blackened desolation there was not even blackened desolation there was not even blackened desolation there was not even a charred remnant of the huge camper a charred remnant of the huge camper a charred remnant of the huge camper tree that had stood behind our house all tree that had stood behind our house all tree that had stood behind our house all around me were strewn skeletons around me were strewn skeletons around me were strewn skeletons scattered bones and torsos of ebony Ash scattered bones and torsos of ebony Ash scattered bones and torsos of ebony Ash I sank down exhausted when I'd recovered I sank down exhausted when I'd recovered I sank down exhausted when I'd recovered somewhat I began looking for my mother somewhat I began looking for my mother somewhat I began looking for my mother or rather her bones all I had to go by or rather her bones all I had to go by or rather her bones all I had to go by was the fact that she had gold teeth I was the fact that she had gold teeth I was the fact that she had gold teeth I held skull after skull in my hands and held skull after skull in my hands and held skull after skull in my hands and peered into the jaw area I wonder how peered into the jaw area I wonder how peered into the jaw area I wonder how many people's skulls I picked up during many people's skulls I picked up during many people's skulls I picked up during my search I continued searching my search I continued searching my search I continued searching frantically there were times when frantically there were times when frantically there were times when squatting I even raised fire blackened squatting I even raised fire blackened squatting I even raised fire blackened heads to look at the teeth I spent that heads to look at the teeth I spent that heads to look at the teeth I spent that whole day the 10th picking up skulls and whole day the 10th picking up skulls and whole day the 10th picking up skulls and putting them down putting them down putting them down again end again end again end quote it is absolutely obvious that it quote it is absolutely obvious that it quote it is absolutely obvious that it is impossible for us to conceptualize is impossible for us to conceptualize is impossible for us to conceptualize what this is really what this is really what this is really like you can make movies about it and like you can make movies about it and like you can make movies about it and people have you can read Survivor people have you can read Survivor people have you can read Survivor accounts and I've read a ton of those accounts and I've read a ton of those accounts and I've read a ton of those and yet there's this distance between and yet there's this distance between and yet there's this distance between what they experienced and what you can what they experienced and what you can what they experienced and what you can glean from it just by hearing about it glean from it just by hearing about it glean from it just by hearing about it and when you read the accounts of and when you read the accounts of and when you read the accounts of survivors they'll often refer to that survivors they'll often refer to that survivors they'll often refer to that one way or another that there's no way

one way or another that there's no way one way or another that there's no way for you sitting here in a peaceful room for you sitting here in a peaceful room for you sitting here in a peaceful room to understand what I'm to understand what I'm to understand what I'm saying this is why I think I'm so saying this is why I think I'm so saying this is why I think I'm so attracted to the idea of bringing in you attracted to the idea of bringing in you attracted to the idea of bringing in you know the leaders who will have to decide know the leaders who will have to decide know the leaders who will have to decide to use these weapons and I'd like to add to use these weapons and I'd like to add to use these weapons and I'd like to add to the group The Leaders on the Japanese to the group The Leaders on the Japanese to the group The Leaders on the Japanese side who are resistant to surrendering side who are resistant to surrendering side who are resistant to surrendering when it's clearly over in this war I'd when it's clearly over in this war I'd when it's clearly over in this war I'd like to bring them too and in an ebene like to bring them too and in an ebene like to bring them too and in an ebene or Scrooge like Ghost of Christmas Past or Scrooge like Ghost of Christmas Past or Scrooge like Ghost of Christmas Past present or future Observer Tour allow present or future Observer Tour allow present or future Observer Tour allow them to see what we're really talking them to see what we're really talking them to see what we're really talking about here and I remember in Reading about here and I remember in Reading about here and I remember in Reading Michael bess's book choices Under Fire Michael bess's book choices Under Fire Michael bess's book choices Under Fire that even with all this stuff that I've that even with all this stuff that I've that even with all this stuff that I've read and even with the hours we've read and even with the hours we've read and even with the hours we've talked about these questions that talked about these questions that talked about these questions that there's always something you didn't there's always something you didn't there's always something you didn't think about like he mentions uh about think about like he mentions uh about think about like he mentions uh about the other things that are destroyed when the other things that are destroyed when the other things that are destroyed when the bomb goes off and he says the bomb goes off and he says the bomb goes off and he says quote at the same same instant meaning quote at the same same instant meaning quote at the same same instant meaning when the bomb went off birds ignited in when the bomb went off birds ignited in when the bomb went off birds ignited in midair mosquitoes and flies squirrels midair mosquitoes and flies squirrels midair mosquitoes and flies squirrels family pets crackled and were gone end family pets crackled and were gone end family pets crackled and were gone end quote it's obvious but I didn't think quote it's obvious but I didn't think quote it's obvious but I didn't think about all the insect life instantly about all the insect life instantly about all the insect life instantly being wiped out it's a crazy kind of being wiped out it's a crazy kind of being wiped out it's a crazy kind of weapon isn't it and while there's weapon isn't it and while there's weapon isn't it and while there's burning corpses in the foreground it is burning corpses in the foreground it is burning corpses in the foreground it is absolutely understandable that you would absolutely understandable that you would absolutely understandable that you would miss the things in the background that miss the things in the background that miss the things in the background that you might have lost but those are you might have lost but those are you might have lost but those are considerable and when somebody starts considerable and when somebody starts considerable and when somebody starts rattling off what you lose in an attack rattling off what you lose in an attack rattling off what you lose in an attack like this a nuclear explosion well one

like this a nuclear explosion well one like this a nuclear explosion well one history Professor who was on the ground history Professor who was on the ground history Professor who was on the ground at Hiroshima and just marveled at the at Hiroshima and just marveled at the at Hiroshima and just marveled at the fact that the city was just gone he said fact that the city was just gone he said fact that the city was just gone he said of the atomic bomb that such a weapon of the atomic bomb that such a weapon of the atomic bomb that such a weapon has the power to make everything into has the power to make everything into has the power to make everything into nothing well what's everything Richard nothing well what's everything Richard nothing well what's everything Richard rhs uh quoted by beess who had a study rhs uh quoted by beess who had a study rhs uh quoted by beess who had a study on this very subject tried to sum up on this very subject tried to sum up on this very subject tried to sum up some of the things besides the obvious some of the things besides the obvious some of the things besides the obvious things of burning corpses in the things of burning corpses in the things of burning corpses in the foreground and he wrote quote destroyed foreground and he wrote quote destroyed foreground and he wrote quote destroyed that is were not only men women and that is were not only men women and that is were not only men women and thousands of children but also thousands of children but also thousands of children but also restaurants and ins laundries theater restaurants and ins laundries theater restaurants and ins laundries theater groups sports clubs sewing clubs boys groups sports clubs sewing clubs boys groups sports clubs sewing clubs boys clubs Girls Clubs love affairs trees and clubs Girls Clubs love affairs trees and clubs Girls Clubs love affairs trees and Gardens grass Gates gravestones temples Gardens grass Gates gravestones temples Gardens grass Gates gravestones temples and shrines family heirlooms radio and shrines family heirlooms radio and shrines family heirlooms radio classmates books courts of law pets classmates books courts of law pets classmates books courts of law pets groceries and markets telephones groceries and markets telephones groceries and markets telephones personal letters automobiles bicycles personal letters automobiles bicycles personal letters automobiles bicycles horses 120 war horses he points out horses 120 war horses he points out horses 120 war horses he points out musical instruments medicines and musical instruments medicines and musical instruments medicines and medical equipment life savings medical equipment life savings medical equipment life savings eyeglasses City Records sidewalks family eyeglasses City Records sidewalks family eyeglasses City Records sidewalks family scrapbooks monuments engagements scrapbooks monuments engagements scrapbooks monuments engagements marriages employees clocks and watches marriages employees clocks and watches marriages employees clocks and watches public transportation street signs public transportation street signs public transportation street signs parents works of parents works of parents works of part end part end part end quote such a weapon has the power to quote such a weapon has the power to quote such a weapon has the power to make everything into make everything into make everything into nothing and still does by the way the

nothing and still does by the way the nothing and still does by the way the nuclear sort of Damocles that hangs over nuclear sort of Damocles that hangs over nuclear sort of Damocles that hangs over our heads now starts our heads now starts our heads now starts then it is perhaps a sign of something then it is perhaps a sign of something then it is perhaps a sign of something that even after This ferocious attack at that even after This ferocious attack at that even after This ferocious attack at Hiroshima the Japanese government still Hiroshima the Japanese government still Hiroshima the Japanese government still isn't ready to surrender isn't ready to surrender isn't ready to surrender and before they can even come up with and before they can even come up with and before they can even come up with some decent conversation about the some decent conversation about the some decent conversation about the matter they get hit with another Hammer matter they get hit with another Hammer matter they get hit with another Hammer blow two days later when the Soviet blow two days later when the Soviet blow two days later when the Soviet Union declares war on Union declares war on Union declares war on Japan this is extra nasty because the Japan this is extra nasty because the Japan this is extra nasty because the Japanese hardliners were living in this Japanese hardliners were living in this Japanese hardliners were living in this fantasy world where they thought they fantasy world where they thought they fantasy world where they thought they could use the Soviets as a way to get a could use the Soviets as a way to get a could use the Soviets as a way to get a better deal from the Allies but when the better deal from the Allies but when the better deal from the Allies but when the Soviets declare war on you well hard to Soviets declare war on you well hard to Soviets declare war on you well hard to deny that that deal is now dead and then deny that that deal is now dead and then deny that that deal is now dead and then the day after that while the Japanese the day after that while the Japanese the day after that while the Japanese government is still figuring out how to government is still figuring out how to government is still figuring out how to respond to these you know we have an respond to these you know we have an respond to these you know we have an atomic bomb dropped on us and two days atomic bomb dropped on us and two days atomic bomb dropped on us and two days later the Soviet Union declares war on later the Soviet Union declares war on later the Soviet Union declares war on us and then on August 9th we get hit us and then on August 9th we get hit us and then on August 9th we get hit with another atomic bomb attack at with another atomic bomb attack at with another atomic bomb attack at Nagasaki if you get 100,000 80 to Nagasaki if you get 100,000 80 to Nagasaki if you get 100,000 80 to 100,000 people killed in Hiroshima the 100,000 people killed in Hiroshima the 100,000 people killed in Hiroshima the numbers at Nagasaki are lower because of numbers at Nagasaki are lower because of numbers at Nagasaki are lower because of the way the terrain is laid out and some the way the terrain is laid out and some the way the terrain is laid out and some other things but you know 45 to other things but you know 45 to other things but you know 45 to 65,000 these are not insignificant 65,000 these are not insignificant 65,000 these are not insignificant numbers needless to say numbers needless to say numbers needless to say and even after Nagasaki you can't get and even after Nagasaki you can't get and even after Nagasaki you can't get the Army ministers on board to surrender the Army ministers on board to surrender the Army ministers on board to surrender unless they can have four conditions and

unless they can have four conditions and unless they can have four conditions and all four conditions are unacceptable to all four conditions are unacceptable to all four conditions are unacceptable to the Allies I mean they're things like the Allies I mean they're things like the Allies I mean they're things like you can't uh occupy Japan we'll try our you can't uh occupy Japan we'll try our you can't uh occupy Japan we'll try our own war criminals you know all kinds of own war criminals you know all kinds of own war criminals you know all kinds of I mean it wasn't going to happen but I mean it wasn't going to happen but I mean it wasn't going to happen but they're not going to surrender till it they're not going to surrender till it they're not going to surrender till it does and the US and the Allies are not does and the US and the Allies are not does and the US and the Allies are not going to stop attacking until they do in going to stop attacking until they do in going to stop attacking until they do in fact they're are bombing raids launched fact they're are bombing raids launched fact they're are bombing raids launched on Japan after the two atomic bombs are on Japan after the two atomic bombs are on Japan after the two atomic bombs are dropped because nothing is going to stop dropped because nothing is going to stop dropped because nothing is going to stop until the surrender happens and finally until the surrender happens and finally until the surrender happens and finally and famously and in a way that's hard to and famously and in a way that's hard to and famously and in a way that's hard to figure out what really happened because figure out what really happened because figure out what really happened because the Cold War made it in the interest of the Cold War made it in the interest of the Cold War made it in the interest of certain countries like the United States certain countries like the United States certain countries like the United States to maybe hide some of the emperor's to maybe hide some of the emperor's to maybe hide some of the emperor's decisionmaking in the second world war decisionmaking in the second world war decisionmaking in the second world war but the emperor steps in and famously but the emperor steps in and famously but the emperor steps in and famously says we have to endure the unendurable says we have to endure the unendurable says we have to endure the unendurable and breaks the tie uh between the and breaks the tie uh between the and breaks the tie uh between the officials and says we're going to officials and says we're going to officials and says we're going to surrender the moment the emperor steps surrender the moment the emperor steps surrender the moment the emperor steps in is one of those times that a lot of in is one of those times that a lot of in is one of those times that a lot of people have focused on ever since people have focused on ever since people have focused on ever since understandably because it brings up all understandably because it brings up all understandably because it brings up all sorts of questions first one is is is if sorts of questions first one is is is if sorts of questions first one is is is if the emperor had this kind of power all the emperor had this kind of power all the emperor had this kind of power all along why did he wait till now to use it along why did he wait till now to use it along why did he wait till now to use it Ian did things have to get this bad Ian did things have to get this bad Ian did things have to get this bad before he exercised before he exercised before he exercised it the Japanese system as we've said all it the Japanese system as we've said all it the Japanese system as we've said all along as everyone says is a a government along as everyone says is a a government along as everyone says is a a government that's opaque by design that decision that's opaque by design that decision that's opaque by design that decision making is veiled and sort of you know making is veiled and sort of you know making is veiled and sort of you know seen through a Gauzy lens and isn't seen through a Gauzy lens and isn't seen through a Gauzy lens and isn't always following you know the Western

always following you know the Western always following you know the Western idea of written down rules and for every idea of written down rules and for every idea of written down rules and for every I mean some there's there's some there's I mean some there's there's some there's I mean some there's there's some there's a vibe to it there's a feel to it a vibe to it there's a feel to it a vibe to it there's a feel to it there's protocol and stuff that's deeply there's protocol and stuff that's deeply there's protocol and stuff that's deeply embedded in Japanese cultural traditions embedded in Japanese cultural traditions embedded in Japanese cultural traditions and Imperial Traditions hard for and Imperial Traditions hard for and Imperial Traditions hard for Outsiders to Outsiders to Outsiders to grasp and then there's also the hardcore grasp and then there's also the hardcore grasp and then there's also the hardcore real politique Machiavellian people who real politique Machiavellian people who real politique Machiavellian people who will say things like if the emperor does will say things like if the emperor does will say things like if the emperor does something that we don't like we'll just something that we don't like we'll just something that we don't like we'll just get rid of him and get another get rid of him and get another get rid of him and get another Emperor this is the same government that Emperor this is the same government that Emperor this is the same government that not long ago had been referred to as a not long ago had been referred to as a not long ago had been referred to as a government by assassination there are government by assassination there are government by assassination there are Japanese higher government officials Japanese higher government officials Japanese higher government officials right now right in this room with the right now right in this room with the right now right in this room with the Emperor who carry uh bullets in their Emperor who carry uh bullets in their Emperor who carry uh bullets in their bodies from being assassination bodies from being assassination bodies from being assassination attempted assassination victims for attempted assassination victims for attempted assassination victims for policy decisions that were not policy decisions that were not policy decisions that were not nationalist or right-wing enough not nationalist or right-wing enough not nationalist or right-wing enough not super patriotic super patriotic super patriotic enough one of the people who's key to enough one of the people who's key to enough one of the people who's key to this whole thing one of the people who's this whole thing one of the people who's this whole thing one of the people who's involved in the standoff is a general involved in the standoff is a general involved in the standoff is a general Nam anami and he says Francis Pike Nam anami and he says Francis Pike Nam anami and he says Francis Pike mentioned it mentions it in his book mentioned it mentions it in his book mentioned it mentions it in his book hereo War he's contemplating maybe the hereo War he's contemplating maybe the hereo War he's contemplating maybe the alternate reality from surrender and he alternate reality from surrender and he alternate reality from surrender and he says quote would it not be wondrous for says quote would it not be wondrous for says quote would it not be wondrous for the whole nation to be destroyed like a the whole nation to be destroyed like a the whole nation to be destroyed like a beautiful flower end beautiful flower end beautiful flower end quote that's like like a quote that's like like a quote that's like like a samurai romance poem ending there right samurai romance poem ending there right samurai romance poem ending there right we all die and it's beautiful do it seem we all die and it's beautiful do it seem we all die and it's beautiful do it seem beautiful at Hiroshima with the beautiful at Hiroshima with the beautiful at Hiroshima with the descriptions there or Nagasaki or

descriptions there or Nagasaki or descriptions there or Nagasaki or Tokyo but if that's the kind of cultural Tokyo but if that's the kind of cultural Tokyo but if that's the kind of cultural blinders you're working with here on a blinders you're working with here on a blinders you're working with here on a certain segment of the military certain segment of the military certain segment of the military community in Japan and they have a veto community in Japan and they have a veto community in Japan and they have a veto power over power over power over policy that's a kind of tragedy sort of policy that's a kind of tragedy sort of policy that's a kind of tragedy sort of when you look at how it turned when you look at how it turned when you look at how it turned out and it is with out and it is with out and it is with almost a sense of almost a sense of almost a sense of resignation that when the emperor resignation that when the emperor resignation that when the emperor decides that we're going to finally give decides that we're going to finally give decides that we're going to finally give in here and surrender a coup is in here and surrender a coup is in here and surrender a coup is attempted by the same mid-level military attempted by the same mid-level military attempted by the same mid-level military guys who've had an inordinate amount of guys who've had an inordinate amount of guys who've had an inordinate amount of impact over policy all along right we impact over policy all along right we impact over policy all along right we talked about them these Lieutenant talked about them these Lieutenant talked about them these Lieutenant Colonels and these midlevel guys who Colonels and these midlevel guys who Colonels and these midlevel guys who actually bully and scare their superiors actually bully and scare their superiors actually bully and scare their superiors decide they're not to stand for this decide they're not to stand for this decide they're not to stand for this they try to attempt a coup they want to they try to attempt a coup they want to they try to attempt a coup they want to get their hands on the emperor's message get their hands on the emperor's message get their hands on the emperor's message to the public announcing that they're to the public announcing that they're to the public announcing that they're going to surrender before it can be going to surrender before it can be going to surrender before it can be broadcast people will die uh the coup broadcast people will die uh the coup broadcast people will die uh the coup plotters will eventually realize they've plotters will eventually realize they've plotters will eventually realize they've failed they'll try to take over a radio failed they'll try to take over a radio failed they'll try to take over a radio station just so they won't to be able to station just so they won't to be able to station just so they won't to be able to explain their motives it's denied explain their motives it's denied explain their motives it's denied they'll kill themselves some other they'll kill themselves some other they'll kill themselves some other people will commit suicide but you see people will commit suicide but you see people will commit suicide but you see the last gasp of these people trying to the last gasp of these people trying to the last gasp of these people trying to make a play for things to prevent this make a play for things to prevent this make a play for things to prevent this surrender which they've had a large and surrender which they've had a large and surrender which they've had a large and in delaying to this point and there are in delaying to this point and there are in delaying to this point and there are generals we should point out on the generals we should point out on the generals we should point out on the mainland who've been beating the Chinese mainland who've been beating the Chinese mainland who've been beating the Chinese who are going to look at this idea that who are going to look at this idea that who are going to look at this idea that they have to surrender is crazy we're they have to surrender is crazy we're they have to surrender is crazy we're going to have to go over and surrender going to have to go over and surrender going to have to go over and surrender to the people whose butt we've been

to the people whose butt we've been to the people whose butt we've been kicking I don't think so don't forget kicking I don't think so don't forget kicking I don't think so don't forget hiru onoda and a ton of other Japanese hiru onoda and a ton of other Japanese hiru onoda and a ton of other Japanese troops on these Pacific Islands aren't troops on these Pacific Islands aren't troops on these Pacific Islands aren't going to go anywhere for decades no going to go anywhere for decades no going to go anywhere for decades no matter what the emperor does here matter what the emperor does here matter what the emperor does here no other Army had the phenomenon of no other Army had the phenomenon of no other Army had the phenomenon of their soldiers thousands of them their soldiers thousands of them their soldiers thousands of them fighting for years and years after the fighting for years and years after the fighting for years and years after the war was over either because they were war was over either because they were war was over either because they were such true believers they were never such true believers they were never such true believers they were never going to surrender regardless of what going to surrender regardless of what going to surrender regardless of what the truth of the situation happened to the truth of the situation happened to the truth of the situation happened to be or because they were such True be or because they were such True be or because they were such True Believers that they refused to believe Believers that they refused to believe Believers that they refused to believe the truth of the situation was the truth of the situation was the truth of the situation was true but you didn't see this phenomenon true but you didn't see this phenomenon true but you didn't see this phenomenon in any of the other major armies in the in any of the other major armies in the in any of the other major armies in the second world war and it's rare to see it second world war and it's rare to see it second world war and it's rare to see it in any War in any War in any War ever it is a relic of the Japanese ever it is a relic of the Japanese ever it is a relic of the Japanese Imperial period which ends When The War Imperial period which ends When The War Imperial period which ends When The War does on September 2nd 1945 interestingly enough it coincides 1945 interestingly enough it coincides and is interconnected with the dawn of and is interconnected with the dawn of and is interconnected with the dawn of the next age in history and most of the the next age in history and most of the the next age in history and most of the time these eras in history aren't easy time these eras in history aren't easy time these eras in history aren't easy to pin down when they happen most people to pin down when they happen most people to pin down when they happen most people live living through them whether it's live living through them whether it's live living through them whether it's the Agricultural Revolution or the age the Agricultural Revolution or the age the Agricultural Revolution or the age of Discovery or the industrial era can't of Discovery or the industrial era can't of Discovery or the industrial era can't put their finger on exactly you know put their finger on exactly you know put their finger on exactly you know when it began or where they are in the when it began or where they are in the when it began or where they are in the um historical

um historical um historical moment but the nuclear age while moment but the nuclear age while moment but the nuclear age while everyone paying attention to current everyone paying attention to current everyone paying attention to current events knew exactly when it started and events knew exactly when it started and events knew exactly when it started and everyone figured it out at exactly the everyone figured it out at exactly the everyone figured it out at exactly the same same same time and because of what the Japanese time and because of what the Japanese time and because of what the Japanese people went through at h and people went through at h and people went through at h and Nagasaki the door is opened to a third Nagasaki the door is opened to a third Nagasaki the door is opened to a third world war which would be civilization world war which would be civilization world war which would be civilization transformative as Albert Einstein is transformative as Albert Einstein is transformative as Albert Einstein is supposed to have supposed to have supposed to have said that he didn't know with what said that he didn't know with what said that he didn't know with what weapons World War II would be weapons World War II would be weapons World War II would be fought but World War I he said would be fought but World War I he said would be fought but World War I he said would be fought with sticks and stones [Music] [Music] by the time the human being lawnmower by the time the human being lawnmower by the time the human being lawnmower grinds to a halt in grinds to a halt in grinds to a halt in 1945 the death totals are some of the 1945 the death totals are some of the 1945 the death totals are some of the worst in recorded worst in recorded worst in recorded history if you just take the Asia history if you just take the Asia history if you just take the Asia Pacific Theater Pacific Theater Pacific Theater alone between 25 and 30 million Allied alone between 25 and 30 million Allied alone between 25 and 30 million Allied civilians are civilians are civilians are dead the second world war is one of dead the second world war is one of dead the second world war is one of those rare Wars where civilian

those rare Wars where civilian those rare Wars where civilian casualties vastly outnumbered military casualties vastly outnumbered military casualties vastly outnumbered military casualties in the first world war wasn't casualties in the first world war wasn't casualties in the first world war wasn't that way at that way at that way at all but military casualties are all but military casualties are all but military casualties are significant too just in that theater the significant too just in that theater the significant too just in that theater the Allies lose 4 million Alli dead a lot of Allies lose 4 million Alli dead a lot of Allies lose 4 million Alli dead a lot of those Chinese we forget that the Chinese those Chinese we forget that the Chinese those Chinese we forget that the Chinese play the role in the asia-pacific play the role in the asia-pacific play the role in the asia-pacific theater that the Soviets play in the theater that the Soviets play in the theater that the Soviets play in the European European European one ones who suck up the majority of the one ones who suck up the majority of the one ones who suck up the majority of the damage and keep the enemy damage and keep the enemy damage and keep the enemy occupied of those Forces 2 and a half occupied of those Forces 2 and a half occupied of those Forces 2 and a half million Japanese military deaths million Japanese military deaths million Japanese military deaths approximately and a million civilian approximately and a million civilian approximately and a million civilian ones these are the kind of death ones these are the kind of death ones these are the kind of death totals that will stick with you for a totals that will stick with you for a totals that will stick with you for a while and it's hard for me not to notice while and it's hard for me not to notice while and it's hard for me not to notice that we haven't had that we haven't had that we haven't had a great war between the great powers in a great war between the great powers in a great war between the great powers in the 75 years since the second world war the 75 years since the second world war the 75 years since the second world war ended of course there might be another ended of course there might be another ended of course there might be another reason for that and I can't help but reason for that and I can't help but reason for that and I can't help but notice that we haven't used nuclear notice that we haven't used nuclear notice that we haven't used nuclear weapons on human beings since weapons on human beings since weapons on human beings since either the human being lawnmower does either the human being lawnmower does either the human being lawnmower does not stay quiet for long because the not stay quiet for long because the not stay quiet for long because the death and destruction will kick up in death and destruction will kick up in death and destruction will kick up in the wake of of the second world war in the wake of of the second world war in the wake of of the second world war in large part because of the structures and large part because of the structures and large part because of the structures and changes that were created by the Second changes that were created by the Second changes that were created by the Second World War I mean uh when the Japanese World War I mean uh when the Japanese World War I mean uh when the Japanese are thrown out of places like Korea what

are thrown out of places like Korea what are thrown out of places like Korea what moves into that vacuum or do the Koreans moves into that vacuum or do the Koreans moves into that vacuum or do the Koreans just take just take just take over the next 15 to 25 years are going over the next 15 to 25 years are going over the next 15 to 25 years are going to be all of these areas having to be all of these areas having to be all of these areas having Independence movements nationalist Independence movements nationalist Independence movements nationalist movements communist insurgencies and all movements communist insurgencies and all movements communist insurgencies and all kinds of things that can be tied kinds of things that can be tied kinds of things that can be tied directly to uh them having a soft or Not directly to uh them having a soft or Not directly to uh them having a soft or Not So Soft Landing from their colonial eras So Soft Landing from their colonial eras So Soft Landing from their colonial eras and a lot of um historians can can draw and a lot of um historians can can draw and a lot of um historians can can draw direct connections between the Japanese direct connections between the Japanese direct connections between the Japanese throwing out the colonial overlords when throwing out the colonial overlords when throwing out the colonial overlords when they initially took over those areas and they initially took over those areas and they initially took over those areas and the amplification and acceleration of the amplification and acceleration of the amplification and acceleration of Trends toward Independence that were Trends toward Independence that were Trends toward Independence that were already underway in most of these places already underway in most of these places already underway in most of these places and if they weren't they were by the and if they weren't they were by the and if they weren't they were by the time the Allies tried to retake control time the Allies tried to retake control time the Allies tried to retake control of the from the Japanese at the end of of the from the Japanese at the end of of the from the Japanese at the end of the war I mean the Indians were going to the war I mean the Indians were going to the war I mean the Indians were going to get independence pretty soon no matter get independence pretty soon no matter get independence pretty soon no matter what they were well on their way and what they were well on their way and what they were well on their way and it's only a couple of years after the it's only a couple of years after the it's only a couple of years after the second world war that they get second world war that they get second world war that they get independence but you're going to have independence but you're going to have independence but you're going to have things with Korea and Malaysia and um things with Korea and Malaysia and um things with Korea and Malaysia and um Vietnam and the rest of Indo China I Vietnam and the rest of Indo China I Vietnam and the rest of Indo China I mean this is all going to be shaking out mean this is all going to be shaking out mean this is all going to be shaking out that will be contributing to the death that will be contributing to the death that will be contributing to the death and destruction and the human being and destruction and the human being and destruction and the human being conveyor belt of death you know the conveyor belt of death you know the conveyor belt of death you know the subsidiary second world war version for subsidiary second world war version for subsidiary second world war version for decades to decades to decades to come here's the the part though that I come here's the the part though that I come here's the the part though that I try to reconcile and I never have which try to reconcile and I never have which try to reconcile and I never have which is if the end result is something that is if the end result is something that is if the end result is something that people celebrate right if if a a people celebrate right if if a a people celebrate right if if a a nation's independence from Outsiders for nation's independence from Outsiders for nation's independence from Outsiders for example is dependent on all these example is dependent on all these example is dependent on all these terrible things happening is it worth

terrible things happening is it worth terrible things happening is it worth it can you put a price in lives and it can you put a price in lives and it can you put a price in lives and destruction on political or national destruction on political or national destruction on political or national Independence that may be something Independence that may be something Independence that may be something that the answer differs depending on who that the answer differs depending on who that the answer differs depending on who you you you ask but what it does do is raise all ask but what it does do is raise all ask but what it does do is raise all sorts of questions that will lead you sorts of questions that will lead you sorts of questions that will lead you into moral Quagmire after moral Quagmire into moral Quagmire after moral Quagmire into moral Quagmire after moral Quagmire I mean start with the idea that either I mean start with the idea that either I mean start with the idea that either inadvertently or by Design does this inadvertently or by Design does this inadvertently or by Design does this mean that the Japanese propaganda that mean that the Japanese propaganda that mean that the Japanese propaganda that portrayed their armies in these panasian portrayed their armies in these panasian portrayed their armies in these panasian terms these East Asia co-prosperity terms these East Asia co-prosperity terms these East Asia co-prosperity driven terms does that mean that their driven terms does that mean that their driven terms does that mean that their army actually was the military tip of army actually was the military tip of army actually was the military tip of the Spear of the nonwhite world you know the Spear of the nonwhite world you know the Spear of the nonwhite world you know playing its role in doing what none of playing its role in doing what none of playing its role in doing what none of these Colonial oppressed societies could these Colonial oppressed societies could these Colonial oppressed societies could do militarily defeat the colonial do militarily defeat the colonial do militarily defeat the colonial overlords I mean is there some truth to overlords I mean is there some truth to overlords I mean is there some truth to that and if there is how does that that and if there is how does that that and if there is how does that change the morality of the overall change the morality of the overall change the morality of the overall situation right if you say that you situation right if you say that you situation right if you say that you can't put a price on National or can't put a price on National or can't put a price on National or political Independence what if you're political Independence what if you're political Independence what if you're the Chinese the Chinese the Chinese and it cost you 20 million civilians to and it cost you 20 million civilians to and it cost you 20 million civilians to get yours and the people that killed get yours and the people that killed get yours and the people that killed those people are the Japanese are you those people are the Japanese are you those people are the Japanese are you thankful to them for that it's it'll tie thankful to them for that it's it'll tie thankful to them for that it's it'll tie you up into moral knots won't it how you up into moral knots won't it how you up into moral knots won't it how about another one because if you play about another one because if you play about another one because if you play that game you know by taking the first

that game you know by taking the first that game you know by taking the first step and wondering if the Japanese are step and wondering if the Japanese are step and wondering if the Japanese are the tip of the SP or freeing all these the tip of the SP or freeing all these the tip of the SP or freeing all these other people well could you make the other people well could you make the other people well could you make the argument that the Allies are the argument that the Allies are the argument that the Allies are the equivalent of the democratic tip of the equivalent of the democratic tip of the equivalent of the democratic tip of the spear doing the same thing for the spear doing the same thing for the spear doing the same thing for the Japanese people that they were doing for Japanese people that they were doing for Japanese people that they were doing for other Asian peoples elsewhere I mean other Asian peoples elsewhere I mean other Asian peoples elsewhere I mean freeing them from an oppressive freeing them from an oppressive freeing them from an oppressive authoritarian authoritarian authoritarian totalitarian um pseudo fascist totalitarian um pseudo fascist totalitarian um pseudo fascist state in his book embracing defeat state in his book embracing defeat state in his book embracing defeat historian John Da looks at the post-war historian John Da looks at the post-war historian John Da looks at the post-war situation in Japan and one of the situation in Japan and one of the situation in Japan and one of the elements that he focuses on is how some elements that he focuses on is how some elements that he focuses on is how some Japanese viewed it that Japanese viewed it that Japanese viewed it that way usually the people who had been most way usually the people who had been most way usually the people who had been most oppressed under the old regime artists oppressed under the old regime artists oppressed under the old regime artists freethinkers liberals Communists freethinkers liberals Communists freethinkers liberals Communists socialists leftists of all kinds people socialists leftists of all kinds people socialists leftists of all kinds people who would end up in prison or tortured who would end up in prison or tortured who would end up in prison or tortured or censured or watched victims of the or censured or watched victims of the or censured or watched victims of the secret police in the state they often in secret police in the state they often in secret police in the state they often in DA's um book look like people who view DA's um book look like people who view DA's um book look like people who view themselves as having been freed by an themselves as having been freed by an themselves as having been freed by an alliance of other countries which is the alliance of other countries which is the alliance of other countries which is the way the United States will often portray way the United States will often portray way the United States will often portray its interventionist activities after the its interventionist activities after the its interventionist activities after the second world war right we don't have a second world war right we don't have a second world war right we don't have a problem with the people of this place problem with the people of this place problem with the people of this place it's their government their government's it's their government their government's it's their government their government's not free we're going to come in there not free we're going to come in there not free we're going to come in there defeat their military give them the defeat their military give them the defeat their military give them the freedom that they didn't have before let freedom that they didn't have before let freedom that they didn't have before let them run their own did it in Japan and them run their own did it in Japan and them run their own did it in Japan and we did it in we did it in we did it in Japan a revolution as a gift was the way

Japan a revolution as a gift was the way Japan a revolution as a gift was the way some of these Japanese portrayed it in some of these Japanese portrayed it in some of these Japanese portrayed it in in his book da reprints a cartoon from in his book da reprints a cartoon from in his book da reprints a cartoon from Japanese cartoonist Kato atsuro where he Japanese cartoonist Kato atsuro where he Japanese cartoonist Kato atsuro where he portrays the Japanese as an individual portrays the Japanese as an individual portrays the Japanese as an individual in the foreground of one of these pieces in the foreground of one of these pieces in the foreground of one of these pieces of art a human being whose hands had of art a human being whose hands had of art a human being whose hands had been tied behind his back and then he been tied behind his back and then he been tied behind his back and then he has just had the bonds severed by a has just had the bonds severed by a has just had the bonds severed by a giant pair of scissors that is over his giant pair of scissors that is over his giant pair of scissors that is over his head in the piece of artwork and the head in the piece of artwork and the head in the piece of artwork and the scissors are sort of clothed in the scissors are sort of clothed in the scissors are sort of clothed in the stars and stripes garbs you get the idea stars and stripes garbs you get the idea stars and stripes garbs you get the idea that the scissors represent the United that the scissors represent the United that the scissors represent the United States the Japanese person who had been States the Japanese person who had been States the Japanese person who had been in bondage represents Japan and in the in bondage represents Japan and in the in bondage represents Japan and in the distance running away from the scene of distance running away from the scene of distance running away from the scene of the crime you can see the two figures the crime you can see the two figures the crime you can see the two figures one who is dressed as a military one who is dressed as a military one who is dressed as a military highlevel muckety muck representing the highlevel muckety muck representing the highlevel muckety muck representing the militarists the other looks like Mr militarists the other looks like Mr militarists the other looks like Mr Monopoly from your Monopoly game and he Monopoly from your Monopoly game and he Monopoly from your Monopoly game and he represents the fat cat uh Rich Elites represents the fat cat uh Rich Elites represents the fat cat uh Rich Elites who are the Puppet Masters in the who are the Puppet Masters in the who are the Puppet Masters in the society and now the outside Powers led society and now the outside Powers led society and now the outside Powers led by the United States in this case have by the United States in this case have by the United States in this case have freed the Japanese people and handed freed the Japanese people and handed freed the Japanese people and handed democracy back to them and I mean it's democracy back to them and I mean it's democracy back to them and I mean it's interesting to contemplate because a lot interesting to contemplate because a lot interesting to contemplate because a lot of societies if evolve politically of societies if evolve politically of societies if evolve politically through Bloodshed I mean how many through Bloodshed I mean how many through Bloodshed I mean how many countries get independence from other countries get independence from other countries get independence from other countries through Bloodshed how many get countries through Bloodshed how many get countries through Bloodshed how many get independence from their own oppressive independence from their own oppressive independence from their own oppressive governments by political revolution governments by political revolution governments by political revolution right the American Revolution the French right the American Revolution the French right the American Revolution the French Revolution bloody Affairs there's just a Revolution bloody Affairs there's just a Revolution bloody Affairs there's just a different vibe isn't there when it's different vibe isn't there when it's different vibe isn't there when it's people from outside your country who

people from outside your country who people from outside your country who have to kill your soldiers your have to kill your soldiers your have to kill your soldiers your civilians destroy your cities occupy civilians destroy your cities occupy civilians destroy your cities occupy your territory in order to give you your territory in order to give you your territory in order to give you these good things it's just fascinating these good things it's just fascinating these good things it's just fascinating to think about and like so much of The to think about and like so much of The to think about and like so much of The Frayed Ends of a rope at the end of the Frayed Ends of a rope at the end of the Frayed Ends of a rope at the end of the second world war how many Loose Ends second world war how many Loose Ends second world war how many Loose Ends Here leave us wondering about moral Here leave us wondering about moral Here leave us wondering about moral questions I mean how about the number questions I mean how about the number questions I mean how about the number one question that often comes out of one question that often comes out of one question that often comes out of this time period the morality of the this time period the morality of the this time period the morality of the dropping of the atomic dropping of the atomic dropping of the atomic bomb now I am on record as saying that I bomb now I am on record as saying that I bomb now I am on record as saying that I think this is one of the most important think this is one of the most important think this is one of the most important ethical sorts of circumstances one can ethical sorts of circumstances one can ethical sorts of circumstances one can ask themselves about something that the ask themselves about something that the ask themselves about something that the entire potential future of humanity entire potential future of humanity entire potential future of humanity could rest on and its importance becomes could rest on and its importance becomes could rest on and its importance becomes clear anytime the issue actually raises clear anytime the issue actually raises clear anytime the issue actually raises its ugly head like in the middle of the its ugly head like in the middle of the its ugly head like in the middle of the Cuban Missile Crisis everyone instantly Cuban Missile Crisis everyone instantly Cuban Missile Crisis everyone instantly understood the import of this you know understood the import of this you know understood the import of this you know moral issue known as nuclear weapons and moral issue known as nuclear weapons and moral issue known as nuclear weapons and this almost Shakespearean question of to this almost Shakespearean question of to this almost Shakespearean question of to atomic bomb or to not atomic atomic bomb or to not atomic atomic bomb or to not atomic bomb what is not helpful useful bomb what is not helpful useful bomb what is not helpful useful satisfying or uh in any way instructive satisfying or uh in any way instructive satisfying or uh in any way instructive for the next time we might consider for the next time we might consider for the next time we might consider using such a weapon is to take it out of using such a weapon is to take it out of using such a weapon is to take it out of the context of the the context of the the context of the times because you end up creating a times because you end up creating a times because you end up creating a moral choice that never really existed moral choice that never really existed moral choice that never really existed for the people who had to make it and

for the people who had to make it and for the people who had to make it and then judging them on that it's as though then judging them on that it's as though then judging them on that it's as though you have a plan a drop atomic weapons on you have a plan a drop atomic weapons on you have a plan a drop atomic weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki or Plan B don't Hiroshima and Nagasaki or Plan B don't Hiroshima and Nagasaki or Plan B don't drop atomic weapons on them and they can drop atomic weapons on them and they can drop atomic weapons on them and they can live happily ever after but that was live happily ever after but that was live happily ever after but that was never plan never plan never plan B Plan B is the one that makes plan a B Plan B is the one that makes plan a B Plan B is the one that makes plan a something that people would consider something that people would consider something that people would consider Plan B is not to drop the atomic bomb Plan B is not to drop the atomic bomb Plan B is not to drop the atomic bomb but to continue with the firebombing but to continue with the firebombing but to continue with the firebombing which continued after the atomic bombs which continued after the atomic bombs which continued after the atomic bombs were dropped as well historically were dropped as well historically were dropped as well historically continue with the continue with the continue with the firebombing tighten the blockade on firebombing tighten the blockade on firebombing tighten the blockade on Japan and they're already dropping sea Japan and they're already dropping sea Japan and they're already dropping sea mines from the air on Japan's Harbors so mines from the air on Japan's Harbors so mines from the air on Japan's Harbors so get that to a point where millions are get that to a point where millions are get that to a point where millions are dying from starvation or lack of dying from starvation or lack of dying from starvation or lack of medicine and then have the inevitable medicine and then have the inevitable medicine and then have the inevitable land Invasion against a bunch of land Invasion against a bunch of land Invasion against a bunch of civilians who are training with bamboo civilians who are training with bamboo civilians who are training with bamboo Spears in Spears in Spears in 1945 that was the ethical choice and it 1945 that was the ethical choice and it 1945 that was the ethical choice and it becomes a lot more murky when those are becomes a lot more murky when those are becomes a lot more murky when those are the plan a and plan B the plan a and plan B the plan a and plan B choices what should be pointed out choices what should be pointed out choices what should be pointed out though sometimes is that our views on though sometimes is that our views on though sometimes is that our views on these things things have been colored by these things things have been colored by these things things have been colored by the intervening history and when you the intervening history and when you the intervening history and when you read what historical participants on the read what historical participants on the read what historical participants on the Allied side saw these weapons like Allied side saw these weapons like Allied side saw these weapons like sometimes you might compare them to sometimes you might compare them to sometimes you might compare them to xcaliber a super weapon that is fallen xcaliber a super weapon that is fallen xcaliber a super weapon that is fallen into the hands of people who see into the hands of people who see into the hands of people who see themselves as King Arthur and a weapon themselves as King Arthur and a weapon themselves as King Arthur and a weapon like Xcalibur in the hands of an

like Xcalibur in the hands of an like Xcalibur in the hands of an individual like King Arthur is a individual like King Arthur is a individual like King Arthur is a potential awesome Force for good potential awesome Force for good potential awesome Force for good see how see how see how murky and morally I mean this is this is murky and morally I mean this is this is murky and morally I mean this is this is the ethical dilemma of sauron's ring the ethical dilemma of sauron's ring the ethical dilemma of sauron's ring right in The Lord of the Rings isn't right in The Lord of the Rings isn't right in The Lord of the Rings isn't it I hope you will forgive me for once it I hope you will forgive me for once it I hope you will forgive me for once again somehow with my cynical nature again somehow with my cynical nature again somehow with my cynical nature seeing a silver lining to the Dark Cloud seeing a silver lining to the Dark Cloud seeing a silver lining to the Dark Cloud that is the atomic bombings of Japan and that is the atomic bombings of Japan and that is the atomic bombings of Japan and it's a similar Silver Lining to the one it's a similar Silver Lining to the one it's a similar Silver Lining to the one I see for the Holocaust I see for the Holocaust I see for the Holocaust I think that after the Holocaust the I think that after the Holocaust the I think that after the Holocaust the fact that there was a holocaust saved a fact that there was a holocaust saved a fact that there was a holocaust saved a lot of lives I think those who died in lot of lives I think those who died in lot of lives I think those who died in concentration camps probably created concentration camps probably created concentration camps probably created such an international historical shock I such an international historical shock I such an international historical shock I don't know how long it lasts but it don't know how long it lasts but it don't know how long it lasts but it certainly lasted pretty strongly since certainly lasted pretty strongly since certainly lasted pretty strongly since that created an international moral Line that created an international moral Line that created an international moral Line in the Sand that has been violated many in the Sand that has been violated many in the Sand that has been violated many times since I mean look at Rwanda for times since I mean look at Rwanda for times since I mean look at Rwanda for example but that has created a situation example but that has created a situation example but that has created a situation where it is where it is where it is radioactive to commit genocide on radioactive to commit genocide on radioactive to commit genocide on people the weager not withstanding people the weager not withstanding people the weager not withstanding perhaps I think the genocides that would perhaps I think the genocides that would perhaps I think the genocides that would have happened had the Holocaust not have happened had the Holocaust not have happened had the Holocaust not happened haven't happened and therefore happened haven't happened and therefore happened haven't happened and therefore I think the Holocaust saves some lives I I think the Holocaust saves some lives I I think the Holocaust saves some lives I feel the same way about the atomic feel the same way about the atomic feel the same way about the atomic bombings I I don't know if Humanity ever

bombings I I don't know if Humanity ever bombings I I don't know if Humanity ever collectively learns lessons but if we do collectively learns lessons but if we do collectively learns lessons but if we do I often think it comes with the I often think it comes with the I often think it comes with the equivalent of us you know touching equivalent of us you know touching equivalent of us you know touching history's hot stove and in this case in history's hot stove and in this case in history's hot stove and in this case in 1945 maybe the hot stove was an 1945 maybe the hot stove was an 1945 maybe the hot stove was an atomically heated atomically heated atomically heated one and had we not had an one and had we not had an one and had we not had an example of what these weapons do to example of what these weapons do to example of what these weapons do to people and to our societies and the people and to our societies and the people and to our societies and the things that we build you know the the things that we build you know the the things that we build you know the the power as that one historian said to turn power as that one historian said to turn power as that one historian said to turn everything into nothing everything into nothing everything into nothing that's a theoretical power until you see that's a theoretical power until you see that's a theoretical power until you see it and seeing it is shocking and the it and seeing it is shocking and the it and seeing it is shocking and the shock of it may have prevented us maybe shock of it may have prevented us maybe shock of it may have prevented us maybe from thinking we ever had to try to use from thinking we ever had to try to use from thinking we ever had to try to use these weapons again I mean think about these weapons again I mean think about these weapons again I mean think about had the weapon been delayed another year had the weapon been delayed another year had the weapon been delayed another year and the war ended before nuclear weapons and the war ended before nuclear weapons and the war ended before nuclear weapons were ever were ever were ever used do you think given what you know used do you think given what you know used do you think given what you know about how we are that we wouldn't have about how we are that we wouldn't have about how we are that we wouldn't have used them in the interim just to see see used them in the interim just to see see used them in the interim just to see see what they do we were tempted many times what they do we were tempted many times what they do we were tempted many times and it was always Hiroshima and Nagasaki and it was always Hiroshima and Nagasaki and it was always Hiroshima and Nagasaki example that created if not a feeling on example that created if not a feeling on example that created if not a feeling on the parts of the military or the the parts of the military or the the parts of the military or the political leaders maybe as strongly as political leaders maybe as strongly as political leaders maybe as strongly as we wanted certainly a feeling on the we wanted certainly a feeling on the we wanted certainly a feeling on the parts of of global humanitarian public parts of of global humanitarian public parts of of global humanitarian public opinion and the pressures you know opinion and the pressures you know opinion and the pressures you know exerted by them and the images that were exerted by them and the images that were exerted by them and the images that were certainly for example cascading through

certainly for example cascading through certainly for example cascading through President Kennedy's brain as he President Kennedy's brain as he President Kennedy's brain as he contemplated the decisions he was making contemplated the decisions he was making contemplated the decisions he was making in the 1962 Cuban missile crisis when he in the 1962 Cuban missile crisis when he in the 1962 Cuban missile crisis when he was looking at 6 or 700 million people was looking at 6 or 700 million people was looking at 6 or 700 million people dying you know in a few dying you know in a few dying you know in a few days is it days is it days is it possible that humanity and the Japanese possible that humanity and the Japanese possible that humanity and the Japanese specifically specifically specifically suffered suffered suffered 1502 200,000 1502 200,000 1502 200,000 250,000 deaths from a couple of 10 250,000 deaths from a couple of 10 250,000 deaths from a couple of 10 kiloton atomic bombs maybe a 15 kiloton kiloton atomic bombs maybe a 15 kiloton kiloton atomic bombs maybe a 15 kiloton one in Nagasaki one in Nagasaki one in Nagasaki case to teach us not to case to teach us not to case to teach us not to use dozens or hundreds of 30 Megaton use dozens or hundreds of 30 Megaton use dozens or hundreds of 30 Megaton ones I ones I ones I mean if that's the mean if that's the mean if that's the case is this the atomic age beginning case is this the atomic age beginning case is this the atomic age beginning nightmarishly so that it doesn't have to nightmarishly so that it doesn't have to nightmarishly so that it doesn't have to end that way someday so that we don't end that way someday so that we don't end that way someday so that we don't have to have you know the war after the have to have you know the war after the have to have you know the war after the next War occur with our very best next War occur with our very best next War occur with our very best technological technological technological capabilities and those being Sticks and capabilities and those being Sticks and capabilities and those being Sticks and [Music] Stones hi everyone Dan here with just a Stones hi everyone Dan here with just a couple of quick words before we leave couple of quick words before we leave couple of quick words before we leave you the first one is if you were you the first one is if you were you the first one is if you were interested enough in the ideas interested enough in the ideas interested enough in the ideas surrounding strategic bombing that's the surrounding strategic bombing that's the surrounding strategic bombing that's the bombing of cities or the early history

bombing of cities or the early history bombing of cities or the early history development use theories uh trying to development use theories uh trying to development use theories uh trying to come to grips with its potential come to grips with its potential come to grips with its potential destructive power of atomic and nuclear destructive power of atomic and nuclear destructive power of atomic and nuclear weapons we do have past shows on both of weapons we do have past shows on both of weapons we do have past shows on both of those subjects uh one is still in the those subjects uh one is still in the those subjects uh one is still in the free feed as of this recording anyway free feed as of this recording anyway free feed as of this recording anyway and that is the destroyer of worlds and that is the destroyer of worlds and that is the destroyer of worlds that's about six hours on that subject that's about six hours on that subject that's about six hours on that subject so maybe wait for a long car drive uh so maybe wait for a long car drive uh so maybe wait for a long car drive uh but we also have in the um pay for but we also have in the um pay for but we also have in the um pay for archives off of our website they're like archives off of our website they're like archives off of our website they're like two or three bucks I think um logical two or three bucks I think um logical two or three bucks I think um logical Insanity the title of which we Insanity the title of which we Insanity the title of which we referenced in the past show you just referenced in the past show you just referenced in the past show you just heard uh twice maybe and also logical heard uh twice maybe and also logical heard uh twice maybe and also logical Insanity extra for the stuff that didn't Insanity extra for the stuff that didn't Insanity extra for the stuff that didn't fit into logical insanity and those are fit into logical insanity and those are fit into logical insanity and those are um available on the website if that um available on the website if that um available on the website if that sounds interesting to you uh once again sounds interesting to you uh once again sounds interesting to you uh once again I want to thank you for being the most I want to thank you for being the most I want to thank you for being the most patient audience on the planet and we patient audience on the planet and we patient audience on the planet and we appreciate it it allows us to do the appreciate it it allows us to do the appreciate it it allows us to do the work with the way we want to do work with the way we want to do work with the way we want to do it also another announcement for those it also another announcement for those it also another announcement for those of you who didn't get to see and want to of you who didn't get to see and want to of you who didn't get to see and want to see our first world war immersive see our first world war immersive see our first world war immersive experience exhibit War remains just want experience exhibit War remains just want experience exhibit War remains just want to let you know that it is um now now a to let you know that it is um now now a to let you know that it is um now now a part of the national World War I Museum part of the national World War I Museum part of the national World War I Museum and Memorial in Kansas City Missouri and and Memorial in Kansas City Missouri and and Memorial in Kansas City Missouri and you can go see it there uh this is the you can go see it there uh this is the you can go see it there uh this is the full set by the way we're talking I mean full set by the way we're talking I mean full set by the way we're talking I mean there's a home version of this but it there's a home version of this but it there's a home version of this but it doesn't have the the actual set it doesn't have the the actual set it doesn't have the the actual set it doesn't have the giant speakers under doesn't have the giant speakers under doesn't have the giant speakers under your feet to make the sound of things your feet to make the sound of things your feet to make the sound of things like shells vibrate through your spinal like shells vibrate through your spinal like shells vibrate through your spinal column there's a whole bunch of things column there's a whole bunch of things column there's a whole bunch of things that the actual we we said it combined that the actual we we said it combined that the actual we we said it combined like virtual reality and a haunted house like virtual reality and a haunted house like virtual reality and a haunted house when you were a kid in terms of you know when you were a kid in terms of you know when you were a kid in terms of you know you can reach out and touch things and you can reach out and touch things and you can reach out and touch things and they're there right wire rats Everything

they're there right wire rats Everything they're there right wire rats Everything feels just the way it should um the feels just the way it should um the feels just the way it should um the people at mwm and at flight school and people at mwm and at flight school and people at mwm and at flight school and at Skywalker sound um they outdid at Skywalker sound um they outdid at Skywalker sound um they outdid themselves with this and if you have the themselves with this and if you have the themselves with this and if you have the home Edition that's great too but home Edition that's great too but home Edition that's great too but there's nothing like standing on those there's nothing like standing on those there's nothing like standing on those speakers and just having it you know speakers and just having it you know speakers and just having it you know knock your socks off so if you find knock your socks off so if you find knock your socks off so if you find yourself in Kansas City Missouri and yourself in Kansas City Missouri and yourself in Kansas City Missouri and you'd like to experience it head over to you'd like to experience it head over to you'd like to experience it head over to the National World War I Museum in the National World War I Museum in the National World War I Museum in Memorial and check it out would you tell Memorial and check it out would you tell Memorial and check it out would you tell them I sent you support us with patreon by going to support us with patreon by going to patreon.com dancarlin or go to our patreon.com dancarlin or go to our patreon.com dancarlin or go to our donate page at dancarlin.com donate page at dancarlin.com donate page at dancarlin.com dc- donate