Hardcore History Ep68 – (BLITZ) Human Resources

it's hardcore history it's hardcore history the blitz edition the blitz edition the blitz edition these shows that we do are improvised these shows that we do are improvised these shows that we do are improvised there's no script there's no script there's no script i'll usually come in the studio remember i'll usually come in the studio remember i'll usually come in the studio remember where we were the day before where we were the day before where we were the day before write down some thoughts that might have write down some thoughts that might have write down some thoughts that might have occurred to me in just sort of maybe occurred to me in just sort of maybe occurred to me in just sort of maybe bullet point form or whatever bullet point form or whatever bullet point form or whatever and then we improvise and then we improvise and then we improvise and if we don't like it we throw it away and if we don't like it we throw it away and if we don't like it we throw it away if we do like it strings together with if we do like it strings together with if we do like it strings together with the stuff we did previously but the the stuff we did previously but the the stuff we did previously but the reason that matters is reason that matters is reason that matters is i don't have a real road map or idea of i don't have a real road map or idea of i don't have a real road map or idea of how what we're about to start here is how what we're about to start here is how what we're about to start here is going to go going to go going to go we take this journey together we take this journey together we take this journey together and then you look at what you have and and then you look at what you have and and then you look at what you have and say oh what is that there's no chance to you know go over there's no chance to you know go over the script later double check things the script later double check things the script later double check things decide if this works or that doesn't you decide if this works or that doesn't you decide if this works or that doesn't you know time it out none of that is know time it out none of that is know time it out none of that is available to us available to us available to us and i think that's partially why it and i think that's partially why it and i think that's partially why it sounds kind of different than a lot of sounds kind of different than a lot of sounds kind of different than a lot of the similar productions but but this is the similar productions but but this is the similar productions but but this is part of how we've always done it right part of how we've always done it right part of how we've always done it right so i don't know how this is going to go so i don't know how this is going to go so i don't know how this is going to go the people that have advised me that the people that have advised me that the people that have advised me that i've divulged what i'm going to talk i've divulged what i'm going to talk i've divulged what i'm going to talk about today the people that i've i've about today the people that i've i've about today the people that i've i've talked to have told me it is not going talked to have told me it is not going talked to have told me it is not going to go well to go well to go well it doesn't matter what i do it's not it doesn't matter what i do it's not it doesn't matter what i do it's not going to go well um going to go well um going to go well um they said you should not touch this they said you should not touch this they said you should not touch this topic it is a no-win situation just go topic it is a no-win situation just go topic it is a no-win situation just go to you know go do one of the pleaser to you know go do one of the pleaser to you know go do one of the pleaser topics there's so many you know the topics there's so many you know the topics there's so many you know the people will love people will love people will love and i wrote down a quote and i wrote down a quote and i wrote down a quote uh that sort of summed up the problem uh that sort of summed up the problem uh that sort of summed up the problem and the reason that those people are and the reason that those people are and the reason that those people are saying that uh it's attributed i always

saying that uh it's attributed i always saying that uh it's attributed i always say that now because every quote is say that now because every quote is say that now because every quote is somehow debunked nobody ever said somehow debunked nobody ever said somehow debunked nobody ever said anything they're anything they're anything they're quoted as saying in history apparently quoted as saying in history apparently quoted as saying in history apparently but the ohio state but the ohio state but the ohio state university historian robert c davis is university historian robert c davis is university historian robert c davis is quoted as saying quoted as saying quoted as saying that history is often is not that history is often is not that history is often is not are present politics projected on to the are present politics projected on to the are present politics projected on to the past and you can see that easily i mean past and you can see that easily i mean past and you can see that easily i mean that is an obvious statement when you go that is an obvious statement when you go that is an obvious statement when you go and look at for example the brand new and look at for example the brand new and look at for example the brand new books that are coming out on certain books that are coming out on certain books that are coming out on certain historical things and and how they historical things and and how they historical things and and how they they'll tend to they'll tend to they'll tend to they'll tie it in it's something that they'll tie it in it's something that they'll tie it in it's something that the editors want right tie it into the the editors want right tie it into the the editors want right tie it into the current events i mean it's encouraged current events i mean it's encouraged current events i mean it's encouraged but the problem is is that that means a but the problem is is that that means a but the problem is is that that means a lot of the material that you might use lot of the material that you might use lot of the material that you might use to discuss this topic that everyone to discuss this topic that everyone to discuss this topic that everyone tells me not to discuss today um is tells me not to discuss today um is tells me not to discuss today um is going to be woven into the political you going to be woven into the political you going to be woven into the political you know anger of our current times right know anger of our current times right know anger of our current times right the zeitgeist the zeitgeist the zeitgeist and if there's one thing we've seen and if there's one thing we've seen and if there's one thing we've seen in our current times is a big part of in our current times is a big part of in our current times is a big part of the problem is that no one accepts the the problem is that no one accepts the the problem is that no one accepts the sources of the other side and that the sources of the other side and that the sources of the other side and that the first thing you say in any discussion is first thing you say in any discussion is first thing you say in any discussion is who are your sources and the minute you who are your sources and the minute you who are your sources and the minute you don't like them it's discussion over don't like them it's discussion over don't like them it's discussion over but this is one of those subjects but this is one of those subjects but this is one of those subjects that everyone should have that everyone should have that everyone should have as part of their sort of foundational as part of their sort of foundational as part of their sort of foundational knowledge as my mother always used to knowledge as my mother always used to knowledge as my mother always used to say she would say intelligent people say she would say intelligent people say she would say intelligent people know these things right so a certain know these things right so a certain know these things right so a certain bedrock of of a knowledge base and you bedrock of of a knowledge base and you bedrock of of a knowledge base and you might not get any higher than that for might not get any higher than that for might not get any higher than that for me because that's another reason that me because that's another reason that me because that's another reason that maybe you want to steer clear of the maybe you want to steer clear of the maybe you want to steer clear of the show like this is because it's show like this is because it's show like this is because it's monumentally huge and a person like monumentally huge and a person like monumentally huge and a person like yours truly is completely inadequate to yours truly is completely inadequate to yours truly is completely inadequate to dealing with it i always hope that i can

dealing with it i always hope that i can dealing with it i always hope that i can be one little tile in the giant mosaic be one little tile in the giant mosaic be one little tile in the giant mosaic that is the picture here that is the picture here that is the picture here and that that tile has something to and that that tile has something to and that that tile has something to offer that's unique offer that's unique offer that's unique so one of the things i thought so one of the things i thought so one of the things i thought anticipating the criticism here and anticipating the criticism here and anticipating the criticism here and wanting wanting wanting people people people if they don't already because many of if they don't already because many of if they don't already because many of you are going to know all of this stuff you are going to know all of this stuff you are going to know all of this stuff um wanting people to have this knowledge um wanting people to have this knowledge um wanting people to have this knowledge base is that i was going to steer clear base is that i was going to steer clear base is that i was going to steer clear of any of the controversial sources of any of the controversial sources of any of the controversial sources now you miss out when you do that you now you miss out when you do that you now you miss out when you do that you lose a lot of the cutting edge ideas you lose a lot of the cutting edge ideas you lose a lot of the cutting edge ideas you lose a lot of the pushing the envelope lose a lot of the pushing the envelope lose a lot of the pushing the envelope stuff some very interesting things at stuff some very interesting things at stuff some very interesting things at one point i thought maybe i'll do a one point i thought maybe i'll do a one point i thought maybe i'll do a compare and contrast sort of deal well compare and contrast sort of deal well compare and contrast sort of deal well that quickly became something that was a that quickly became something that was a that quickly became something that was a too high of an intellectual level for too high of an intellectual level for too high of an intellectual level for years truly also years truly also years truly also so i thought i'm going to approach this so i thought i'm going to approach this so i thought i'm going to approach this like a blitz show topic like a blitz show topic like a blitz show topic where we sort of dive in and dive out where we sort of dive in and dive out where we sort of dive in and dive out and i highlight things that i think are and i highlight things that i think are and i highlight things that i think are interesting or important it's not interesting or important it's not interesting or important it's not chronological it's not a history of chronological it's not a history of chronological it's not a history of but it's but it's but it's something that when i look at my archive something that when i look at my archive something that when i look at my archive seems like a glaring omission it's it's seems like a glaring omission it's it's seems like a glaring omission it's it's the discussion of the atlantic slave the discussion of the atlantic slave the discussion of the atlantic slave trade and trade and trade and um that period um that period um that period in history and some of the ideas that in history and some of the ideas that in history and some of the ideas that are out there and some of the thoughts are out there and some of the thoughts are out there and some of the thoughts that matter that matter that matter and some questions that i think are and some questions that i think are and some questions that i think are well i want to say that they're well i want to say that they're well i want to say that they're interesting but some of them i would i interesting but some of them i would i interesting but some of them i would i would say are almost would say are almost would say are almost the obvious things to ask and no one the obvious things to ask and no one the obvious things to ask and no one asks them which is you know maybe i'm asks them which is you know maybe i'm asks them which is you know maybe i'm the wrong in the wrong there maybe the wrong in the wrong there maybe the wrong in the wrong there maybe they're not that foundational otherwise they're not that foundational otherwise they're not that foundational otherwise other people would have asked them but other people would have asked them but other people would have asked them but you can be the judge of that you can be the judge of that you can be the judge of that assuming that without this script we assuming that without this script we assuming that without this script we ever get to that

ever get to that ever get to that now we did a show quite a while back now we did a show quite a while back now we did a show quite a while back called addicted to bondage called addicted to bondage called addicted to bondage that looked at the overall human that looked at the overall human that looked at the overall human institution of slavery going back you institution of slavery going back you institution of slavery going back you know to the very beginnings of know to the very beginnings of know to the very beginnings of civilization it wasn't as in-depth as civilization it wasn't as in-depth as civilization it wasn't as in-depth as that makes it sound but it was more of a that makes it sound but it was more of a that makes it sound but it was more of a holistic look at the uh slavery question holistic look at the uh slavery question holistic look at the uh slavery question than dealing and i think it specifically than dealing and i think it specifically than dealing and i think it specifically tried to avoid the more recent version tried to avoid the more recent version tried to avoid the more recent version that was specifically mostly african in that was specifically mostly african in that was specifically mostly african in nature to give a sense of how nature to give a sense of how nature to give a sense of how common this thing was in human history common this thing was in human history common this thing was in human history all over the world all over the world all over the world and then we examined the sorts of and then we examined the sorts of and then we examined the sorts of reasons that that might be reasons that that might be reasons that that might be and you get into these and you get into these and you get into these borderline upsetting um borderline upsetting um borderline upsetting um sorts of sorts of sorts of lenses to look at it but when i was a lenses to look at it but when i was a lenses to look at it but when i was a kid and this is what we said in the kid and this is what we said in the kid and this is what we said in the addicted bondage episode they were addicted bondage episode they were addicted bondage episode they were always promising the kitchen of tomorrow always promising the kitchen of tomorrow always promising the kitchen of tomorrow today today today all these labor-saving devices were all these labor-saving devices were all these labor-saving devices were gonna take all the drudgery of life away gonna take all the drudgery of life away gonna take all the drudgery of life away from you so you could go enjoy your golf from you so you could go enjoy your golf from you so you could go enjoy your golf game or whatever it was you know radar game or whatever it was you know radar game or whatever it was you know radar ranges stuff like that ranges stuff like that ranges stuff like that but as we had said and addicted to but as we had said and addicted to but as we had said and addicted to bondage bondage bondage the ancients and the people in earlier the ancients and the people in earlier the ancients and the people in earlier eras and the people in some places still eras and the people in some places still eras and the people in some places still today today today they have the kitchen of yesterday today they have the kitchen of yesterday today they have the kitchen of yesterday today and it's just as good but instead of and it's just as good but instead of and it's just as good but instead of labor saving devices that are mechanical labor saving devices that are mechanical labor saving devices that are mechanical they have people that do the same job they have people that do the same job they have people that do the same job slaves were one of the original labor slaves were one of the original labor slaves were one of the original labor saving devices saving devices saving devices and when you read the views of slave and when you read the views of slave and when you read the views of slave holders in slave societies they will holders in slave societies they will holders in slave societies they will often connect it to the highest often connect it to the highest often connect it to the highest you know aspirations of mankind as a

you know aspirations of mankind as a you know aspirations of mankind as a whole right it's people who do the slave whole right it's people who do the slave whole right it's people who do the slave type jobs that free up the people that type jobs that free up the people that type jobs that free up the people that push society forward and think and and push society forward and think and and push society forward and think and and write and come up with all these you write and come up with all these you write and come up with all these you know pieces of art that otherwise would know pieces of art that otherwise would know pieces of art that otherwise would not be available because they'd have to not be available because they'd have to not be available because they'd have to go to you know the grocery store in the go to you know the grocery store in the go to you know the grocery store in the morning morning morning the marketplace would probably be more the marketplace would probably be more the marketplace would probably be more apropos and pick up the stuff for apropos and pick up the stuff for apropos and pick up the stuff for tonight's dinner and then make it right tonight's dinner and then make it right tonight's dinner and then make it right and then clean up after it otherwise i and then clean up after it otherwise i and then clean up after it otherwise i mean how are we going to have time to mean how are we going to have time to mean how are we going to have time to write and read write and read write and read you'll see that all the way into you'll see that all the way into you'll see that all the way into post-colonial times in the united states post-colonial times in the united states post-colonial times in the united states right this is how societies push forward right this is how societies push forward right this is how societies push forward even even even you know famous athens in the era where you know famous athens in the era where you know famous athens in the era where it was democratic right it's sort of the it was democratic right it's sort of the it was democratic right it's sort of the the the the shining city on the democratic hill for shining city on the democratic hill for shining city on the democratic hill for people looking back at at the beginnings people looking back at at the beginnings people looking back at at the beginnings of things like democracy it was an of things like democracy it was an of things like democracy it was an enormous slave state enormous slave state enormous slave state nice chunk of its population was nice chunk of its population was nice chunk of its population was enslaved so so what was once referred to as a peculiar what was once referred to as a peculiar what was once referred to as a peculiar institution slavery is not institution slavery is not institution slavery is not we live in the strange time now a time we live in the strange time now a time we live in the strange time now a time where slavery is universally reviled now where slavery is universally reviled now where slavery is universally reviled now i did read i did read i did read that there were more than 40 million that there were more than 40 million that there were more than 40 million people classified as slaves right now in people classified as slaves right now in people classified as slaves right now in the world which if true the world which if true the world which if true would make it almost certainly would make it almost certainly would make it almost certainly this period in human history where there this period in human history where there this period in human history where there were the most slaves were the most slaves were the most slaves 40 million is a lot 40 million is a lot 40 million is a lot but sometimes the criteria is let's call but sometimes the criteria is let's call but sometimes the criteria is let's call it slavery on a sliding scale and that it slavery on a sliding scale and that it slavery on a sliding scale and that isn't meant to be

isn't meant to be isn't meant to be trite but there's all kinds of slavery trite but there's all kinds of slavery trite but there's all kinds of slavery and it's sort of on a gradient and it's sort of on a gradient and it's sort of on a gradient on one end you have things like on one end you have things like on one end you have things like um um um you know wage slavery as some people you know wage slavery as some people you know wage slavery as some people would say right people that are trapped would say right people that are trapped would say right people that are trapped in jobs that don't make them enough in jobs that don't make them enough in jobs that don't make them enough money to live but they get paid money to live but they get paid money to live but they get paid then you have things like bond slavery then you have things like bond slavery then you have things like bond slavery debt slavery which is really the same debt slavery which is really the same debt slavery which is really the same thing indentured servitude thing indentured servitude thing indentured servitude all the way down to the lowest level of all the way down to the lowest level of all the way down to the lowest level of slavery on the gradient chattel slavery slavery on the gradient chattel slavery slavery on the gradient chattel slavery chattel slavery is this is where we take chattel slavery is this is where we take chattel slavery is this is where we take human beings and we make them things maybe would be more uh apropos rather maybe would be more uh apropos rather than comparing them to a hammer than comparing them to a hammer than comparing them to a hammer or a chair to compare them to some sort or a chair to compare them to some sort or a chair to compare them to some sort of animal of animal of animal you'd find on a farm that's how because you'd find on a farm that's how because you'd find on a farm that's how because the the slave owners would often try to the the slave owners would often try to the the slave owners would often try to keep them healthy the same way you would keep them healthy the same way you would keep them healthy the same way you would try to keep some livestock healthy but try to keep some livestock healthy but try to keep some livestock healthy but it's you know you own them you can do it's you know you own them you can do it's you know you own them you can do whatever you want with them whatever you want with them whatever you want with them that's chattel slavery that's chattel slavery that's chattel slavery serfdom peasantry there's all kinds of serfdom peasantry there's all kinds of serfdom peasantry there's all kinds of these things that would fall somewhere these things that would fall somewhere these things that would fall somewhere in the category but chattel slavery is in the category but chattel slavery is in the category but chattel slavery is the lowest of the low and that's the the lowest of the low and that's the the lowest of the low and that's the kind of slavery kind of slavery kind of slavery uh that the world had going on uh that the world had going on uh that the world had going on when christopher columbus when christopher columbus when christopher columbus found the new world for the europeans in found the new world for the europeans in found the new world for the europeans in the old world how about that europeans the old world how about that europeans the old world how about that europeans isn't even the proper term because the isn't even the proper term because the isn't even the proper term because the old world um stretched from you know the old world um stretched from you know the old world um stretched from you know the edges of europe right ireland western edges of europe right ireland western edges of europe right ireland western france western spain and what's now france western spain and what's now france western spain and what's now portugal right those are the edges of portugal right those are the edges of portugal right those are the edges of the of europe the europe eurasian the of europe the europe eurasian the of europe the europe eurasian continent continent continent and you follow it all the way through

and you follow it all the way through and you follow it all the way through though and i mean china on the other though and i mean china on the other though and i mean china on the other side is connected to this pipeline and side is connected to this pipeline and side is connected to this pipeline and everything in between now there's not everything in between now there's not everything in between now there's not close contact but close contact but close contact but silk is making it one way money's making silk is making it one way money's making silk is making it one way money's making it the other it the other it the other in other words that there are things in other words that there are things in other words that there are things like um like um like um diseases diseases diseases foods foods foods um um um codes of conduct and morality codes of conduct and morality codes of conduct and morality that um are shared you know i mean the that um are shared you know i mean the that um are shared you know i mean the mongols alone mongols alone mongols alone in the 1300s 1200s would have been in the 1300s 1200s would have been in the 1300s 1200s would have been spreading a lot of this stuff against spreading a lot of this stuff against spreading a lot of this stuff against everybody else's will so when columbus rolls up so when columbus rolls up into the new world the so-called new into the new world the so-called new into the new world the so-called new world and lands world and lands world and lands the person that is landing there is a the person that is landing there is a the person that is landing there is a person from the middle ages person from the middle ages person from the middle ages and this is important to point out now and this is important to point out now and this is important to point out now columbus was a bad guy columbus was a bad guy columbus was a bad guy uh i think when you look at uh i think when you look at uh i think when you look at his conduct as judged by the people of his conduct as judged by the people of his conduct as judged by the people of his day his day his day at the same time at the same time at the same time it's hard to imagine it's hard to imagine it's hard to imagine somebody else showing up and all of a somebody else showing up and all of a somebody else showing up and all of a sudden behaving radically different sudden behaving radically different sudden behaving radically different right even if they were not as ruthless right even if they were not as ruthless right even if they were not as ruthless as someone like columbus as someone like columbus as someone like columbus how much different are they going to how much different are they going to how much different are they going to behave and how much different is that behave and how much different is that behave and how much different is that going to going to make everything that going to going to make everything that going to going to make everything that follows afterwards but the important follows afterwards but the important follows afterwards but the important thing to remember is if you look and i thing to remember is if you look and i thing to remember is if you look and i always do this if you look at when always do this if you look at when always do this if you look at when columbus was born in other words the columbus was born in other words the columbus was born in other words the world he was born into i think he was world he was born into i think he was world he was born into i think he was born in the 1450s born in the 1450s born in the 1450s the 1450s is like the war of the roses the 1450s is like the war of the roses the 1450s is like the war of the roses in england go look at a at a picture you

in england go look at a at a picture you in england go look at a at a picture you know painting um of what people were know painting um of what people were know painting um of what people were looking like in the wars of the roses looking like in the wars of the roses looking like in the wars of the roses era these are nights era these are nights era these are nights this is medieval combat this is medieval combat this is medieval combat we haven't even yet or we're just in we haven't even yet or we're just in we haven't even yet or we're just in columbus's day progressing to the point columbus's day progressing to the point columbus's day progressing to the point where we're getting into that period where we're getting into that period where we're getting into that period where you have the inquisition and where you have the inquisition and where you have the inquisition and people being burned i mean look at what people being burned i mean look at what people being burned i mean look at what life is like for these people life is like for these people life is like for these people in the world columbus was born into they in the world columbus was born into they in the world columbus was born into they break people on the wheel the executions break people on the wheel the executions break people on the wheel the executions are public i mean so what sort of person are public i mean so what sort of person are public i mean so what sort of person was going to show up in the new world was going to show up in the new world was going to show up in the new world and just and just and just by modern standards behave by modern standards behave by modern standards behave right that was an ugly world they were right that was an ugly world they were right that was an ugly world they were coming from and as i said not you know coming from and as i said not you know coming from and as i said not you know it's tempting these days people will it's tempting these days people will it's tempting these days people will blame it on europe but i mean this is blame it on europe but i mean this is blame it on europe but i mean this is this is the way it is in north africa this is the way it is in north africa this is the way it is in north africa what's now the middle east what's now the middle east what's now the middle east europe of course russia china the europe of course russia china the europe of course russia china the mongolian area india i mean this is a mongolian area india i mean this is a mongolian area india i mean this is a shared understanding of man's inhumanity shared understanding of man's inhumanity shared understanding of man's inhumanity to man and things like slavery to man and things like slavery to man and things like slavery well it's everywhere and it's an equal opportunity atrocity and it's an equal opportunity atrocity in columbus's day before he finds the in columbus's day before he finds the in columbus's day before he finds the so-called new world slavers were more likely to care about slavers were more likely to care about the slaves religious affiliation than the slaves religious affiliation than the slaves religious affiliation than their skin color their skin color their skin color the christians in spain would enslave the christians in spain would enslave the christians in spain would enslave the moors across the moors across the moors across into north africa the north african into north africa the north african into north africa the north african peoples who

peoples who peoples who are like moroccans and algerians today are like moroccans and algerians today are like moroccans and algerians today and those people would enslave the and those people would enslave the and those people would enslave the christians as well christians as well christians as well the turks had lots of slaves the arabs the turks had lots of slaves the arabs the turks had lots of slaves the arabs had lots of slaves the italians had had lots of slaves the italians had had lots of slaves the italians had slave markets the russians had slaves slave markets the russians had slaves slave markets the russians had slaves the mongols enslaved everyone the the mongols enslaved everyone the the mongols enslaved everyone the chinese had slaves the indians had chinese had slaves the indians had chinese had slaves the indians had slaves they had slavery in sub-saharan slaves they had slavery in sub-saharan slaves they had slavery in sub-saharan africa with so-called black africa africa with so-called black africa africa with so-called black africa and they had slavery in the americas and they had slavery in the americas and they had slavery in the americas before columbus even got there before columbus even got there before columbus even got there similar pattern to the rest of the world similar pattern to the rest of the world similar pattern to the rest of the world too some peoples had it some peoples too some peoples had it some peoples too some peoples had it some peoples didn't didn't didn't amongst the people that did practice amongst the people that did practice amongst the people that did practice slavery it was on the slavery gradient slavery it was on the slavery gradient slavery it was on the slavery gradient scale too scale too scale too i mean there were and you'll often hear i mean there were and you'll often hear i mean there were and you'll often hear people sort of try to defend these people sort of try to defend these people sort of try to defend these tribes as not really being tribes as not really being tribes as not really being uh slave owning tribes because the slave uh slave owning tribes because the slave uh slave owning tribes because the slave was more like was more like was more like a family member a family member a family member a family member who couldn't leave and a family member who couldn't leave and a family member who couldn't leave and had to do whatever they were told but had to do whatever they were told but had to do whatever they were told but that is a little different on the that is a little different on the that is a little different on the slavery gradient scale than slavery gradient scale than slavery gradient scale than someone who's captured in war and is a someone who's captured in war and is a someone who's captured in war and is a slave who's held as raw fodder slave who's held as raw fodder slave who's held as raw fodder for some human sacrificial religious for some human sacrificial religious for some human sacrificial religious event that is upcoming right event that is upcoming right event that is upcoming right you're going to be the star of the show you're going to be the star of the show you're going to be the star of the show and needless to say things like skin and needless to say things like skin and needless to say things like skin color did not play a role color did not play a role color did not play a role uh because the peoples of the americas uh because the peoples of the americas uh because the peoples of the americas were basically you know close to each were basically you know close to each were basically you know close to each other's skin color wasn't playing a other's skin color wasn't playing a other's skin color wasn't playing a large role at the time columbus arrived large role at the time columbus arrived large role at the time columbus arrived in the old world yet either anyone could in the old world yet either anyone could in the old world yet either anyone could become a slave as we'd said i mean become a slave as we'd said i mean become a slave as we'd said i mean anyone in columbus's crew anyone in columbus's crew anyone in columbus's crew could have found themselves on a ship

could have found themselves on a ship could have found themselves on a ship captured by pirates or slavers end up in captured by pirates or slavers end up in captured by pirates or slavers end up in some slave market on a mediterranean some slave market on a mediterranean some slave market on a mediterranean island find themselves auctioned off and island find themselves auctioned off and island find themselves auctioned off and a galley slave in the sultan's fleet or a galley slave in the sultan's fleet or a galley slave in the sultan's fleet or something like that white slavery as it something like that white slavery as it something like that white slavery as it was called the pulp comic books of the was called the pulp comic books of the was called the pulp comic books of the 20th century play on that a lot right 20th century play on that a lot right 20th century play on that a lot right especially the the women who ended up in especially the the women who ended up in especially the the women who ended up in the sultans harem the white women it was the sultans harem the white women it was the sultans harem the white women it was such a racial trope but during this time such a racial trope but during this time such a racial trope but during this time period there was some of that in the the period there was some of that in the the period there was some of that in the the turks had christian slave soldiers which turks had christian slave soldiers which turks had christian slave soldiers which is a different slave is a different slave is a different slave uh level on the slavery gradient scale uh level on the slavery gradient scale uh level on the slavery gradient scale too too too there could be some really powerful there could be some really powerful there could be some really powerful slaves slaves who owned lots of slaves i slaves slaves who owned lots of slaves i slaves slaves who owned lots of slaves i mean the slavery thing defies easy mean the slavery thing defies easy mean the slavery thing defies easy classification classification classification the bottom line though is is one of the the bottom line though is is one of the the bottom line though is is one of the things where you start to say okay now things where you start to say okay now things where you start to say okay now why did this happen the interesting why did this happen the interesting why did this happen the interesting questions that come into play is so how questions that come into play is so how questions that come into play is so how did this become a thing where all of a did this become a thing where all of a did this become a thing where all of a sudden sudden sudden a bunch of powers in the world were a bunch of powers in the world were a bunch of powers in the world were hooking black africans up hooking black africans up hooking black africans up to the to the to the you know the the proto or early you know the the proto or early you know the the proto or early capitalist globalized capitalist globalized capitalist globalized supply chain and logistically figuring supply chain and logistically figuring supply chain and logistically figuring out ways to start a pipeline of human out ways to start a pipeline of human out ways to start a pipeline of human beings beings beings from the african continent over to the from the african continent over to the from the african continent over to the americas americas americas and there's obviously no easy answer to and there's obviously no easy answer to and there's obviously no easy answer to this if there's any answer at all it's this if there's any answer at all it's this if there's any answer at all it's not a two plus two equals four kind of not a two plus two equals four kind of not a two plus two equals four kind of question certainly question certainly question certainly so i started writing down so i started writing down so i started writing down you know while scouring the history you know while scouring the history you know while scouring the history books a bunch of the different ideas

books a bunch of the different ideas books a bunch of the different ideas that were thrown out there as major that were thrown out there as major that were thrown out there as major influencing factors to this whole thing influencing factors to this whole thing influencing factors to this whole thing and as my list got longer and longer and and as my list got longer and longer and and as my list got longer and longer and longer i started to realize that this longer i started to realize that this longer i started to realize that this really isn't a list that's about slavery really isn't a list that's about slavery really isn't a list that's about slavery per se per se per se you could better describe this you could better describe this you could better describe this ever-lengthening list of influential ever-lengthening list of influential ever-lengthening list of influential factors discoveries uh events as factors discoveries uh events as factors discoveries uh events as something that tries to explain what something that tries to explain what something that tries to explain what reality was like in the so-called old reality was like in the so-called old reality was like in the so-called old world in the 15th and 16th centuries world in the 15th and 16th centuries world in the 15th and 16th centuries right what the zeitgeist was like what right what the zeitgeist was like what right what the zeitgeist was like what the economic system is like the economic system is like the economic system is like in other words what you can draw from in other words what you can draw from in other words what you can draw from that is that slavery is so that is that slavery is so that is that slavery is so interconnected in that world that you interconnected in that world that you interconnected in that world that you can't tease it out like a strand in a can't tease it out like a strand in a can't tease it out like a strand in a rope rope rope it touches everything it influences it touches everything it influences it touches everything it influences everything it's such a basic part of the everything it's such a basic part of the everything it's such a basic part of the makeup of things makeup of things makeup of things that it's impossible to talk about the that it's impossible to talk about the that it's impossible to talk about the influential factors in the slave trade influential factors in the slave trade influential factors in the slave trade without just talking about the without just talking about the without just talking about the influential factors in life influential factors in life influential factors in life the one thing that has always struck me the one thing that has always struck me the one thing that has always struck me about this era about this era about this era is because some of it especially is because some of it especially is because some of it especially economically begins to look like well economically begins to look like well economically begins to look like well there's a modernity to it it's not the there's a modernity to it it's not the there's a modernity to it it's not the kind of economic system we have now but kind of economic system we have now but kind of economic system we have now but we're clearly an evolved form of it we're clearly an evolved form of it we're clearly an evolved form of it right we're descendant from right we're descendant from right we're descendant from this system that's about to develop in this system that's about to develop in this system that's about to develop in the 1400s because it's the first truly the 1400s because it's the first truly the 1400s because it's the first truly globalized system right because it's the globalized system right because it's the globalized system right because it's the first time that the first time that the first time that the so-called old world and the so-called so-called old world and the so-called so-called old world and the so-called new world are new world are new world are aware of each other

aware of each other aware of each other first time they're included in the first time they're included in the first time they're included in the economy the first time you have a global economy the first time you have a global economy the first time you have a global economy right and yet the idea that you could take a and yet the idea that you could take a kind of a proto-capitalism kind of a proto-capitalism kind of a proto-capitalism and inject and inject and inject human bondage human bondage human bondage as one of the commodities as one of the commodities as one of the commodities that it works with the same way you that it works with the same way you that it works with the same way you would work with sugar would work with sugar would work with sugar or tobacco or oil today or tobacco or oil today or tobacco or oil today it's bizarre they seem to be from it's bizarre they seem to be from it's bizarre they seem to be from different eras different eras different eras like slavery should have already died like slavery should have already died like slavery should have already died out before we got to this level of out before we got to this level of out before we got to this level of ability to ability to ability to you know maximize you know maximize you know maximize mercantile operations right we already mercantile operations right we already mercantile operations right we already already decided that things like people already decided that things like people already decided that things like people shouldn't be the officially traded shouldn't be the officially traded shouldn't be the officially traded products on the new york stock exchange products on the new york stock exchange products on the new york stock exchange right right right and instead of and instead of and instead of you know these old ideas going away you know these old ideas going away you know these old ideas going away because they don't fit into a new modern because they don't fit into a new modern because they don't fit into a new modern paradigm what instead you see is a paradigm what instead you see is a paradigm what instead you see is a fusion don't you fusion don't you fusion don't you of this very ancient human institution of this very ancient human institution of this very ancient human institution of bondage of bondage of bondage mixing mixing mixing with with with the proto-modern economic system of the the proto-modern economic system of the the proto-modern economic system of the renaissance the first globalized you renaissance the first globalized you renaissance the first globalized you know sometimes you'll see history books know sometimes you'll see history books know sometimes you'll see history books call it a commercial revolution or a call it a commercial revolution or a call it a commercial revolution or a mercantilist revolution or trade mercantilist revolution or trade mercantilist revolution or trade revolution but an era where revolution but an era where revolution but an era where it would not be out of place and i'm it would not be out of place and i'm it would not be out of place and i'm sure it's been done and i feel like an sure it's been done and i feel like an sure it's been done and i feel like an idiot for not having checked it in idiot for not having checked it in idiot for not having checked it in advance but i mean i'm sure an economist advance but i mean i'm sure an economist advance but i mean i'm sure an economist could write this history in a way that could write this history in a way that could write this history in a way that it makes total sense as crazy as that

it makes total sense as crazy as that it makes total sense as crazy as that sounds right if you take the human being sounds right if you take the human being sounds right if you take the human being part out of this and you just focus on part out of this and you just focus on part out of this and you just focus on numbers and trade and profit and loss numbers and trade and profit and loss numbers and trade and profit and loss and well you can make all of this kind and well you can make all of this kind and well you can make all of this kind of work of work of work it's the moral part that screws up the it's the moral part that screws up the it's the moral part that screws up the whole slave trade thing and if you want to be a historical and if you want to be a historical optimist you can say that there were optimist you can say that there were optimist you can say that there were there were events on a historical there were events on a historical there were events on a historical slavery timeline that looked like slavery timeline that looked like slavery timeline that looked like there's progress happening here and there's progress happening here and there's progress happening here and there people will eliminate slavery and there people will eliminate slavery and there people will eliminate slavery and do away with slavery and make rules that do away with slavery and make rules that do away with slavery and make rules that uh further uh constrict slavery uh further uh constrict slavery uh further uh constrict slavery and i'm not saying they're not progress and i'm not saying they're not progress and i'm not saying they're not progress but when you make rules for example i but when you make rules for example i but when you make rules for example i believe there was one pope that said believe there was one pope that said believe there was one pope that said that um you know christians could be that um you know christians could be that um you know christians could be slave owners and christians could be slave owners and christians could be slave owners and christians could be slaves but here on after you can't have slaves but here on after you can't have slaves but here on after you can't have christian slaves owned by non-christian christian slaves owned by non-christian christian slaves owned by non-christian slave holders now slave holders now slave holders now anything is progress in the right anything is progress in the right anything is progress in the right direction but this to me sounds more direction but this to me sounds more direction but this to me sounds more like like like we don't really have a problem with the we don't really have a problem with the we don't really have a problem with the idea of slavery we just have a problem idea of slavery we just have a problem idea of slavery we just have a problem with people like us being enslaved but with people like us being enslaved but with people like us being enslaved but again not going to quibble with progress just going to point out that the just going to point out that the historical optimists who want to make a historical optimists who want to make a historical optimists who want to make a point can point to some things that point can point to some things that point can point to some things that often if you examine them on the ground often if you examine them on the ground often if you examine them on the ground with a critical eye with a critical eye with a critical eye look um again progress but look more look um again progress but look more look um again progress but look more like you're promoting the lowest people like you're promoting the lowest people like you're promoting the lowest people in your society a level or two up on the in your society a level or two up on the in your society a level or two up on the slavery gradient scale right maybe slavery gradient scale right maybe slavery gradient scale right maybe something something something from a chattel slave to a surf or from a from a chattel slave to a surf or from a from a chattel slave to a surf or from a surf to a peasant or from a peasant to surf to a peasant or from a peasant to surf to a peasant or from a peasant to an indentured servant you know i mean an indentured servant you know i mean an indentured servant you know i mean i'm not again saying it's not progress i'm not again saying it's not progress i'm not again saying it's not progress but um the historical pessimist would

but um the historical pessimist would but um the historical pessimist would come back with come back with come back with yes doesn't seem to mean that much yes doesn't seem to mean that much yes doesn't seem to mean that much when you look at how many new peoples when you look at how many new peoples when you look at how many new peoples are going to be enslaved and how this is are going to be enslaved and how this is are going to be enslaved and how this is going to be turned into a machine going to be turned into a machine going to be turned into a machine and perhaps you could compare the entire and perhaps you could compare the entire and perhaps you could compare the entire slave trade as it's always existed as a slave trade as it's always existed as a slave trade as it's always existed as a machine right go to the mediterranean machine right go to the mediterranean machine right go to the mediterranean those are old trade networks in people i those are old trade networks in people i those are old trade networks in people i mean take for example the black sea the mean take for example the black sea the mean take for example the black sea the black sea is like a tree a slave trading black sea is like a tree a slave trading black sea is like a tree a slave trading highway highway highway that you take them from the areas well a that you take them from the areas well a that you take them from the areas well a lot of times it was the step people the lot of times it was the step people the lot of times it was the step people the various tribes there would make a living various tribes there would make a living various tribes there would make a living raiding slavic villages stealing people raiding slavic villages stealing people raiding slavic villages stealing people and then selling them they'd be and then selling them they'd be and then selling them they'd be transported across the black sea a lot transported across the black sea a lot transported across the black sea a lot of times to constantinople and from of times to constantinople and from of times to constantinople and from there to the mediterranean i mean it's there to the mediterranean i mean it's there to the mediterranean i mean it's it's a trade network in people it's a trade network in people it's a trade network in people but you add the modern stuff to it but you add the modern stuff to it but you add the modern stuff to it and we have investors right and big and we have investors right and big and we have investors right and big firms and and uh firms and and uh firms and and uh it just again it could be told in the it just again it could be told in the it just again it could be told in the pages of the wall street journal this pages of the wall street journal this pages of the wall street journal this story if you make human beings a legal if you make human beings a legal commodity to trade i mean opium was that commodity to trade i mean opium was that commodity to trade i mean opium was that way for a while you just make it illegal way for a while you just make it illegal way for a while you just make it illegal come on then it is like sugar or tobacco come on then it is like sugar or tobacco come on then it is like sugar or tobacco or oil and the mind reels right and the mind reels right oil doesn't feel pain right oil doesn't oil doesn't feel pain right oil doesn't oil doesn't feel pain right oil doesn't suffer suffer suffer human beings do though right and yet supply and demand and yet supply and demand does as good of a job explaining some of does as good of a job explaining some of does as good of a job explaining some of this stuff as any other thing you can this stuff as any other thing you can this stuff as any other thing you can think of i mean look we've talked about think of i mean look we've talked about think of i mean look we've talked about it before i'm not a historian and it's

it before i'm not a historian and it's it before i'm not a historian and it's difficult to try to take the various difficult to try to take the various difficult to try to take the various strands in the story and rank them in a strands in the story and rank them in a strands in the story and rank them in a triage type of level of importance right triage type of level of importance right triage type of level of importance right this is what happened to them this was this is what happened to them this was this is what happened to them this was more important i can't do that but i can more important i can't do that but i can more important i can't do that but i can bring in some of the strands that were bring in some of the strands that were bring in some of the strands that were going on around this time period to going on around this time period to going on around this time period to provide the context right so let's go provide the context right so let's go provide the context right so let's go back to when we started about columbus's back to when we started about columbus's back to when we started about columbus's birth period because that's an birth period because that's an birth period because that's an interesting time and there's a lot of interesting time and there's a lot of interesting time and there's a lot of things that are happening during that things that are happening during that things that are happening during that same time period same time period same time period now start with the fact that there is now start with the fact that there is now start with the fact that there is the beginnings as we all know of the beginnings as we all know of the beginnings as we all know of something your history books called the something your history books called the something your history books called the renaissance renaissance means rebirth renaissance renaissance means rebirth renaissance renaissance means rebirth and it was always associated and it was always associated and it was always associated with with with new ideas or a better way to put it new ideas or a better way to put it new ideas or a better way to put it would be old ideas that were would be old ideas that were would be old ideas that were rediscovered the rediscovery of rediscovered the rediscovery of rediscovered the rediscovery of classical civilization was the way my classical civilization was the way my classical civilization was the way my old history book used to old history book used to old history book used to label it label it label it now modern histories do a better job of now modern histories do a better job of now modern histories do a better job of as i think i alluded to pointing out as i think i alluded to pointing out as i think i alluded to pointing out that the people in europe for example that the people in europe for example that the people in europe for example had gotten their hands on some of this had gotten their hands on some of this had gotten their hands on some of this ancient greek and roman stuff a couple ancient greek and roman stuff a couple ancient greek and roman stuff a couple of centuries earlier they were pouring of centuries earlier they were pouring of centuries earlier they were pouring through the scientific side of this through the scientific side of this through the scientific side of this stuff but at the renaissance they start stuff but at the renaissance they start stuff but at the renaissance they start getting and they become popular right getting and they become popular right getting and they become popular right these works never died out they were in these works never died out they were in these works never died out they were in small little enclaves of knowledge small little enclaves of knowledge small little enclaves of knowledge including you know in in the arabic including you know in in the arabic including you know in in the arabic language that gets retransmitted over language that gets retransmitted over language that gets retransmitted over but but it wasn't in wide but but it wasn't in wide but but it wasn't in wide general dissemination and then during general dissemination and then during general dissemination and then during the renaissance all of these ancient the renaissance all of these ancient the renaissance all of these ancient greek and roman pre-christian greek and roman pre-christian greek and roman pre-christian cultural and philosophical and artistic cultural and philosophical and artistic cultural and philosophical and artistic works sort of blow into the works sort of blow into the works sort of blow into the consciousness of the illiterate people consciousness of the illiterate people consciousness of the illiterate people in europe and it begins to change in europe and it begins to change in europe and it begins to change everything and to find a historical

everything and to find a historical everything and to find a historical analogy now is to tread into science analogy now is to tread into science analogy now is to tread into science fiction territory fiction territory fiction territory because this is a thousand years or more because this is a thousand years or more because this is a thousand years or more before the people of the renaissance can before the people of the renaissance can before the people of the renaissance can you imagine finding a book 1500 years you imagine finding a book 1500 years you imagine finding a book 1500 years old and it's got all this stuff we old and it's got all this stuff we old and it's got all this stuff we didn't know yet in it didn't know yet in it didn't know yet in it or calculations we didn't think about or or calculations we didn't think about or or calculations we didn't think about or philosophical ideas that we've never philosophical ideas that we've never philosophical ideas that we've never been exposed to been exposed to been exposed to and then this stuff reaches the internet and then this stuff reaches the internet and then this stuff reaches the internet high of mind and changes everything that's kind of the crazy stuff behind that's kind of the crazy stuff behind the renaissance rediscovery of classical the renaissance rediscovery of classical the renaissance rediscovery of classical civilization but what's funny is part of civilization but what's funny is part of civilization but what's funny is part of the reason that this is new to the the reason that this is new to the the reason that this is new to the people in europe at this time period is people in europe at this time period is people in europe at this time period is because they've been living because they've been living because they've been living with with with centuries of centuries of centuries of you know one sort of you know one sort of you know one sort of mental construct that they were working mental construct that they were working mental construct that they were working with which sort of excluded a lot of with which sort of excluded a lot of with which sort of excluded a lot of these these these pre their mental construct ideas right pre their mental construct ideas right pre their mental construct ideas right they lived in a very they lived in a very they lived in a very christian world one one professor christian world one one professor christian world one one professor professor of mine described it once as a professor of mine described it once as a professor of mine described it once as a fanatical steaming cup of coffee that fanatical steaming cup of coffee that fanatical steaming cup of coffee that all of a sudden gets an injection of all of a sudden gets an injection of all of a sudden gets an injection of pre-christian pre-christian pre-christian you know cream or half and half into the you know cream or half and half into the you know cream or half and half into the mix and you can imagine you know what mix and you can imagine you know what mix and you can imagine you know what that does the turbulence of the time that does the turbulence of the time that does the turbulence of the time period upcoming period upcoming period upcoming is in part is in part is in part um influenced by all of these ideas that um influenced by all of these ideas that um influenced by all of these ideas that a bunch of people who had a very very a bunch of people who had a very very a bunch of people who had a very very very very very very very very christian worldview and one that was christian worldview and one that was christian worldview and one that was enforced remember this was the kind of enforced remember this was the kind of enforced remember this was the kind of mental thing that if you deviated from mental thing that if you deviated from mental thing that if you deviated from it too much you would find yourself in it too much you would find yourself in it too much you would find yourself in dire dire dire straits dire dire dire straits dire dire dire straits you could find yourself burned in this you could find yourself burned in this you could find yourself burned in this period for having a world view too far

period for having a world view too far period for having a world view too far too far off the beaten path right so to too far off the beaten path right so to too far off the beaten path right so to all of a sudden bring in these people all of a sudden bring in these people all of a sudden bring in these people who were immune from punishment i mean who were immune from punishment i mean who were immune from punishment i mean you can't burn aristotle at the stake you can't burn aristotle at the stake you can't burn aristotle at the stake but all of a sudden people might read it but all of a sudden people might read it but all of a sudden people might read it aristotle by the way aristotle by the way aristotle by the way is not a bad person to pivot off of this is not a bad person to pivot off of this is not a bad person to pivot off of this because one of the things that the because one of the things that the because one of the things that the rediscovery of classical civilization rediscovery of classical civilization rediscovery of classical civilization did was expose the renaissance europeans did was expose the renaissance europeans did was expose the renaissance europeans to this idea that slavery's just fine to this idea that slavery's just fine to this idea that slavery's just fine right i mean if you're trending away right i mean if you're trending away right i mean if you're trending away from slavery but all of a sudden and i from slavery but all of a sudden and i from slavery but all of a sudden and i remember reading one historian who remember reading one historian who remember reading one historian who described the renaissance um described the renaissance um described the renaissance um love affair with the classical greeks love affair with the classical greeks love affair with the classical greeks and romans or an infatuation with them and romans or an infatuation with them and romans or an infatuation with them right and you're you're looking at this right and you're you're looking at this right and you're you're looking at this great civilization that was so great great civilization that was so great great civilization that was so great that you could actually read stuff from that you could actually read stuff from that you could actually read stuff from a thousand years ago that they created a thousand years ago that they created a thousand years ago that they created and it's better than your stuff or more and it's better than your stuff or more and it's better than your stuff or more interesting or different or stimulating interesting or different or stimulating interesting or different or stimulating or you hadn't thought of that right what or you hadn't thought of that right what or you hadn't thought of that right what accounts for such a great society and accounts for such a great society and accounts for such a great society and there's this little bit of you know there's this little bit of you know there's this little bit of you know wondering what the secret sauce of wondering what the secret sauce of wondering what the secret sauce of classical civilization is and the people classical civilization is and the people classical civilization is and the people in this time period couldn't help but in this time period couldn't help but in this time period couldn't help but notice that these societies whether notice that these societies whether notice that these societies whether you're talking about the ancient you're talking about the ancient you're talking about the ancient athenians or whether you're talking athenians or whether you're talking athenians or whether you're talking about the these are slave states about the these are slave states about the these are slave states maybe slavery's got something to do with maybe slavery's got something to do with maybe slavery's got something to do with and then you start reading some of the and then you start reading some of the and then you start reading some of the ancient greek ancient greek ancient greek justifications for slavery and some of justifications for slavery and some of justifications for slavery and some of the roman justifications for slavery and the roman justifications for slavery and the roman justifications for slavery and you can't help but notice that these you can't help but notice that these you can't help but notice that these will become like the standard will become like the standard will become like the standard justifications that you will hear all justifications that you will hear all justifications that you will hear all the way up into the way up into the way up into you know like the united states you know like the united states you know like the united states antebellum 1850 era or something you're antebellum 1850 era or something you're antebellum 1850 era or something you're still here in the the lines that listen still here in the the lines that listen still here in the the lines that listen slavery's good for the slaves slavery's good for the slaves slavery's good for the slaves what was that philosopher's line you

what was that philosopher's line you what was that philosopher's line you know better to be ruled by the reason of know better to be ruled by the reason of know better to be ruled by the reason of another than no reason at all another than no reason at all another than no reason at all right you'd be better off listening to right you'd be better off listening to right you'd be better off listening to your master's uh decisions on life your master's uh decisions on life your master's uh decisions on life because you'll be a happier person than because you'll be a happier person than because you'll be a happier person than if you made your own decisions because if you made your own decisions because if you made your own decisions because you're not rational the other idea that you're not rational the other idea that you're not rational the other idea that comes from the ancient greek comes from the ancient greek comes from the ancient greek philosophers this idea that you know philosophers this idea that you know philosophers this idea that you know some people are just born slaves right some people are just born slaves right some people are just born slaves right there's you know it's like created from there's you know it's like created from there's you know it's like created from birth the gods willed it or what have birth the gods willed it or what have birth the gods willed it or what have you you you yours you know some of you were born yours you know some of you were born yours you know some of you were born greek some of you born barbarians the greek some of you born barbarians the greek some of you born barbarians the barbarians are the slaves then there's that other idea from then there's that other idea from classical civilization which was classical civilization which was classical civilization which was absolutely adopted by later slave states absolutely adopted by later slave states absolutely adopted by later slave states and that's that slavery was good for and that's that slavery was good for and that's that slavery was good for everybody because it allowed everybody because it allowed everybody because it allowed society's cream of the crop i'm not sure society's cream of the crop i'm not sure society's cream of the crop i'm not sure what the right word to use for these what the right word to use for these what the right word to use for these people are but but society's best and people are but but society's best and people are but but society's best and brightest right the most enlightened brightest right the most enlightened brightest right the most enlightened thinkers and statesmen and paul you know thinkers and statesmen and paul you know thinkers and statesmen and paul you know whatever it might be it allows those whatever it might be it allows those whatever it might be it allows those people the time to concentrate on what people the time to concentrate on what people the time to concentrate on what only they can do only they can do only they can do freeze them because they're a slaves to freeze them because they're a slaves to freeze them because they're a slaves to do all the drudgery work right to make do all the drudgery work right to make do all the drudgery work right to make them the money on the farm whatever it them the money on the farm whatever it them the money on the farm whatever it might be freeze them to push society might be freeze them to push society might be freeze them to push society forward only by being a man of leisure forward only by being a man of leisure forward only by being a man of leisure could um you know these people play could um you know these people play could um you know these people play their role in society just like the their role in society just like the their role in society just like the slave plays their role in society and slave plays their role in society and slave plays their role in society and you can almost see a cosmic you know you can almost see a cosmic you know you can almost see a cosmic you know organization to it all can't you see how organization to it all can't you see how organization to it all can't you see how it all fits together the point being is you know in a time the point being is you know in a time period where maybe a historical optimist period where maybe a historical optimist period where maybe a historical optimist could see signs could see signs could see signs that um that um that um you know along with this new modern you know along with this new modern you know along with this new modern world maybe there'll be a more modern world maybe there'll be a more modern world maybe there'll be a more modern view of of human relations when it comes

view of of human relations when it comes view of of human relations when it comes to things like slavery and then all of a to things like slavery and then all of a to things like slavery and then all of a sudden you get this intellectual sudden you get this intellectual sudden you get this intellectual competition right a school of philosophy competition right a school of philosophy competition right a school of philosophy that kind of that kind of that kind of by way of example argues for just the by way of example argues for just the by way of example argues for just the opposite right well it didn't hurt opposite right well it didn't hurt opposite right well it didn't hurt greece or rome to have all those slaves you also begin to run into a terrible you also begin to run into a terrible you know this could be on the wall you know this could be on the wall you know this could be on the wall street journal pages too but a terrible street journal pages too but a terrible street journal pages too but a terrible supply and demand situation supply and demand situation supply and demand situation that various developments in this day that various developments in this day that various developments in this day and age and age and age seem to offer a resolution for so let me seem to offer a resolution for so let me seem to offer a resolution for so let me explain let's go back explain let's go back explain let's go back to columbus's birth again right so to columbus's birth again right so to columbus's birth again right so 1450-ish 1450-ish 1450-ish 51 52 right in there by this time 51 52 right in there by this time 51 52 right in there by this time there have been advances in european there have been advances in european there have been advances in european ocean-going travel that's a good way to ocean-going travel that's a good way to ocean-going travel that's a good way to put it right ocean-going exploration and put it right ocean-going exploration and put it right ocean-going exploration and this is of course one of the more this is of course one of the more this is of course one of the more interesting things in all your history interesting things in all your history interesting things in all your history books books books um to go from a situation where for the um to go from a situation where for the um to go from a situation where for the most part human beings would hug most part human beings would hug most part human beings would hug coastlines with naval vessels to going coastlines with naval vessels to going coastlines with naval vessels to going into the open ocean right venturing into the open ocean right venturing into the open ocean right venturing forth into the atlantic or the pacific forth into the atlantic or the pacific forth into the atlantic or the pacific or what have you the indian ocean or what have you the indian ocean or what have you the indian ocean now there and this is part of their um now there and this is part of their um now there and this is part of their um their charm and what blows you away their charm and what blows you away their charm and what blows you away about them polynesians in canoes about them polynesians in canoes about them polynesians in canoes vikings and long ships they they had vikings and long ships they they had vikings and long ships they they had famously done this stuff famously done this stuff famously done this stuff but there's a difference between some of but there's a difference between some of but there's a difference between some of that and the sort of regular ongoing that and the sort of regular ongoing that and the sort of regular ongoing commerce that will be initiated by commerce that will be initiated by commerce that will be initiated by you know man's you know man's you know man's venturing forth into the open oceans venturing forth into the open oceans venturing forth into the open oceans with big ships with big ships with big ships and when you go read the accounts from

and when you go read the accounts from and when you go read the accounts from when this first starts right so so go go when this first starts right so so go go when this first starts right so so go go to what's now portugal right kingdom of to what's now portugal right kingdom of to what's now portugal right kingdom of portugal kingdom of castile all these portugal kingdom of castile all these portugal kingdom of castile all these places sort of on the most western part places sort of on the most western part places sort of on the most western part of the european peninsula along with of the european peninsula along with of the european peninsula along with ireland ireland ireland and you read their early accounts of and you read their early accounts of and you read their early accounts of venturing forward with the ships venturing forward with the ships venturing forward with the ships if you look at a map it looks like if you look at a map it looks like if you look at a map it looks like they're going almost nowhere they're going almost nowhere they're going almost nowhere you want to say to yourself really you want to say to yourself really you want to say to yourself really that's a big deal going from you know that's a big deal going from you know that's a big deal going from you know the coast to portugal to that little the coast to portugal to that little the coast to portugal to that little island right there it's only a half inch island right there it's only a half inch island right there it's only a half inch on my map on my map on my map something like that something like that something like that but back in those days there was a very but back in those days there was a very but back in those days there was a very good chance if you went off into the good chance if you went off into the good chance if you went off into the open ocean even a short distance away open ocean even a short distance away open ocean even a short distance away you weren't coming home you weren't coming home you weren't coming home and it was the coming home with and it was the coming home with and it was the coming home with regularity part that changed everything regularity part that changed everything regularity part that changed everything and it was different ship designs and it was different ship designs and it was different ship designs different navigational tools different different navigational tools different different navigational tools different theories a bunch of really intrepid theories a bunch of really intrepid theories a bunch of really intrepid individuals who would go a little bit individuals who would go a little bit individuals who would go a little bit farther than last time and then a little farther than last time and then a little farther than last time and then a little bit farther than that you can go see a bit farther than that you can go see a bit farther than that you can go see a timeline of portuguese investigation off timeline of portuguese investigation off timeline of portuguese investigation off of their coasts of the islands nearby of their coasts of the islands nearby of their coasts of the islands nearby then the coast of africa and you know then the coast of africa and you know then the coast of africa and you know every year you can see they're like every year you can see they're like every year you can see they're like going a little bit farther down the west going a little bit farther down the west going a little bit farther down the west coast of africa then eventually around coast of africa then eventually around coast of africa then eventually around the tip go up the other side eventually the tip go up the other side eventually the tip go up the other side eventually across the indian ocean across the indian ocean across the indian ocean this does a whole lot of things this does a whole lot of things this does a whole lot of things obviously right the first thing it does obviously right the first thing it does obviously right the first thing it does though though though is open up a direct channel is open up a direct channel is open up a direct channel to central and southern africa so-called to central and southern africa so-called to central and southern africa so-called black africa right sub-saharan africa black africa right sub-saharan africa black africa right sub-saharan africa europeans and sub-saharan africa have europeans and sub-saharan africa have europeans and sub-saharan africa have always been connected just not directly always been connected just not directly always been connected just not directly right so if if africans from sub-saharan

right so if if africans from sub-saharan right so if if africans from sub-saharan africa move across africa move across africa move across uh uh their continent up to the uh uh their continent up to the uh uh their continent up to the mediterranean sea and get transported to mediterranean sea and get transported to mediterranean sea and get transported to slave markets in italy for example i slave markets in italy for example i slave markets in italy for example i mean that all happens mean that all happens mean that all happens but it's very different than having a but it's very different than having a but it's very different than having a direct you know european correspondence direct you know european correspondence direct you know european correspondence with the great african kingdom south of with the great african kingdom south of with the great african kingdom south of the sahara desert right the sahara desert right the sahara desert right and the sahara desert's one of the big and the sahara desert's one of the big and the sahara desert's one of the big reasons that that's not happened before reasons that that's not happened before reasons that that's not happened before this time it's this time it's this time it's what 75 80 days to travel across the what 75 80 days to travel across the what 75 80 days to travel across the sahara desert in this time period and sahara desert in this time period and sahara desert in this time period and it's a total death zone it's a total death zone it's a total death zone armies can't traverse it i mean there armies can't traverse it i mean there armies can't traverse it i mean there are some slave caravans and some trading are some slave caravans and some trading are some slave caravans and some trading caravans but by and large this is an caravans but by and large this is an caravans but by and large this is an enormous barrier enormous barrier enormous barrier and then above that if you look at a map and then above that if you look at a map and then above that if you look at a map north of the sahara desert if you're uh north of the sahara desert if you're uh north of the sahara desert if you're uh the europeans trying to have direct the europeans trying to have direct the europeans trying to have direct contact with so-called black africa you contact with so-called black africa you contact with so-called black africa you have another problem and it's it's have another problem and it's it's have another problem and it's it's powerful north african states powerful north african states powerful north african states right you have you have a barrier there right you have you have a barrier there right you have you have a barrier there so first you have a powerful north so first you have a powerful north so first you have a powerful north african state blocking you from central african state blocking you from central african state blocking you from central africa and then south of them you have africa and then south of them you have africa and then south of them you have the giant sahara desert you could see the giant sahara desert you could see the giant sahara desert you could see why why why the uh sub-saharan africans and the the uh sub-saharan africans and the the uh sub-saharan africans and the europeans required middlemen to do much europeans required middlemen to do much europeans required middlemen to do much interaction before this time period interaction before this time period interaction before this time period but what's so monumentally different but what's so monumentally different but what's so monumentally different about this era is eventually the about this era is eventually the about this era is eventually the portuguese making their way down the portuguese making their way down the portuguese making their way down the african coast get to the level that's african coast get to the level that's african coast get to the level that's south of where the sahara desert is in south of where the sahara desert is in south of where the sahara desert is in other words their ships make direct other words their ships make direct other words their ships make direct contact with sub-saharan african contact with sub-saharan african contact with sub-saharan african kingdoms kingdoms kingdoms and one of the first things that they do and one of the first things that they do and one of the first things that they do is grab some of the people that they see

is grab some of the people that they see is grab some of the people that they see on the coastline throw them in chains on the coastline throw them in chains on the coastline throw them in chains and take them back to portugal so they and take them back to portugal so they and take them back to portugal so they harbinger maybe of things to come harbinger maybe of things to come harbinger maybe of things to come this is what's happening like right this is what's happening like right this is what's happening like right around columbus's birth around columbus's birth around columbus's birth and then in 1453 and then in 1453 and then in 1453 something famously happens that once something famously happens that once something famously happens that once again in a supply and demand again in a supply and demand again in a supply and demand conversation about the global trading conversation about the global trading conversation about the global trading patterns and the price of uh investments patterns and the price of uh investments patterns and the price of uh investments and all these commodities um and all these commodities um and all these commodities um the in 1453 constantinople falls to the the in 1453 constantinople falls to the the in 1453 constantinople falls to the turks turks turks now if you go look at a map now if you go look at a map now if you go look at a map constantinople's modern-day istanbul constantinople's modern-day istanbul constantinople's modern-day istanbul writes old roman city that becomes a writes old roman city that becomes a writes old roman city that becomes a later roman city you would call a later roman city you would call a later roman city you would call a byzantine city maybe um and then in 1453 byzantine city maybe um and then in 1453 byzantine city maybe um and then in 1453 it gets taken finally by the turks it gets taken finally by the turks it gets taken finally by the turks and if you look at istanbul today you and if you look at istanbul today you and if you look at istanbul today you can see how it basically controls access can see how it basically controls access can see how it basically controls access to the black sea it's the nozzle on the to the black sea it's the nozzle on the to the black sea it's the nozzle on the wine skin bag that is the black sea wine skin bag that is the black sea wine skin bag that is the black sea and as we said earlier the black sea is and as we said earlier the black sea is and as we said earlier the black sea is a major major slave a major major slave a major major slave transport transport transport zone i mean this is how you get your zone i mean this is how you get your zone i mean this is how you get your your so-called white slaves from the your so-called white slaves from the your so-called white slaves from the slavic regions and all there um all the slavic regions and all there um all the slavic regions and all there um all the way down to the major slave markets and way down to the major slave markets and way down to the major slave markets and and when constantinople falls and when constantinople falls and when constantinople falls the ottoman turks cut off they divert the ottoman turks cut off they divert the ottoman turks cut off they divert the slaves that were coming the slaves that were coming the slaves that were coming from that area to the major slave from that area to the major slave from that area to the major slave markets in the mediterranean to their markets in the mediterranean to their markets in the mediterranean to their own areas the islamic areas in the own areas the islamic areas in the own areas the islamic areas in the middle east and places like that which had always had a lot of slaves which had always had a lot of slaves anyway anyway anyway but when they do this now in our supply but when they do this now in our supply but when they do this now in our supply and demand situation we have a supply

and demand situation we have a supply and demand situation we have a supply squeeze right squeeze right squeeze right what would any good business person do what would any good business person do what would any good business person do if all of a sudden your access to raw if all of a sudden your access to raw if all of a sudden your access to raw materials were cut off materials were cut off materials were cut off or reduced or reduced or reduced and that's a good way to look at this and that's a good way to look at this and that's a good way to look at this too because slavery even though it's too because slavery even though it's too because slavery even though it's like um like um like um currency basically i mean people are currency basically i mean people are currency basically i mean people are like money like money like money and you can get money for human beings and you can get money for human beings and you can get money for human beings so in a straight-up currency trade so in a straight-up currency trade so in a straight-up currency trade they're worth value that way but they're they're worth value that way but they're they're worth value that way but they're also if you consider it like a prime also if you consider it like a prime also if you consider it like a prime component of everybody else's business component of everybody else's business component of everybody else's business it's the same way if energy prices went it's the same way if energy prices went it's the same way if energy prices went up it ripples up and down everybody's up it ripples up and down everybody's up it ripples up and down everybody's life doesn't it affects everything the life doesn't it affects everything the life doesn't it affects everything the price of meat in this in the grocery price of meat in this in the grocery price of meat in this in the grocery stores everything stores everything stores everything so that's how this slave thing is too so that's how this slave thing is too so that's how this slave thing is too because everybody needs slaves there's a because everybody needs slaves there's a because everybody needs slaves there's a relatively constant demand and sometimes uh new and sometimes uh new uh enlightened policies end up making uh enlightened policies end up making uh enlightened policies end up making that situation even worse for example if that situation even worse for example if that situation even worse for example if you say something like well you know you say something like well you know you say something like well you know christians shouldn't be slaves anymore christians shouldn't be slaves anymore christians shouldn't be slaves anymore you just cut the market that's available you just cut the market that's available you just cut the market that's available you know in that raw materials category you know in that raw materials category you know in that raw materials category don't you so so this is a time period don't you so so this is a time period don't you so so this is a time period where there's a heavy-duty demand supply where there's a heavy-duty demand supply where there's a heavy-duty demand supply gets curtailed and anybody in their gets curtailed and anybody in their gets curtailed and anybody in their right mind is going to look for a new right mind is going to look for a new right mind is going to look for a new source of raw materials and it's right source of raw materials and it's right source of raw materials and it's right around the same time period that the around the same time period that the around the same time period that the europeans have made direct contact with europeans have made direct contact with europeans have made direct contact with sub-saharan africa which has always been sub-saharan africa which has always been sub-saharan africa which has always been a a big a a big a a big source of source of source of slaves not to the europeans slaves not to the europeans slaves not to the europeans to the islamic states for example there to the islamic states for example there to the islamic states for example there was a big big slave rebellion lasted

was a big big slave rebellion lasted was a big big slave rebellion lasted more than a decade killed a ton of more than a decade killed a ton of more than a decade killed a ton of people in what's now modern-day iraq led people in what's now modern-day iraq led people in what's now modern-day iraq led by the black african slaves 869 adc i by the black african slaves 869 adc i by the black african slaves 869 adc i believe right big rebellion believe right big rebellion believe right big rebellion but it shows you how long these trading but it shows you how long these trading but it shows you how long these trading patterns have been patterns have been patterns have been you know working i mean if you're an you know working i mean if you're an you know working i mean if you're an african ruler and you defeat your african ruler and you defeat your african ruler and you defeat your opponent in war you take the captives opponent in war you take the captives opponent in war you take the captives and you sell them and you sell them and you sell them or you make them your own slave right or you make them your own slave right or you make them your own slave right and this is not a universal thing it and this is not a universal thing it and this is not a universal thing it just happens a lot that's a good way to just happens a lot that's a good way to just happens a lot that's a good way to put anything right this is not universal put anything right this is not universal put anything right this is not universal it just happens a lot it just happens a lot it just happens a lot people could fall into slavery due to people could fall into slavery due to people could fall into slavery due to crimes and be punished by their own crimes and be punished by their own crimes and be punished by their own people the bottom line is that at a certain the bottom line is that at a certain point the europeans and when we say that point the europeans and when we say that point the europeans and when we say that now we really mean the portuguese i mean now we really mean the portuguese i mean now we really mean the portuguese i mean the english are not doing this yet for the english are not doing this yet for the english are not doing this yet for example but the portuguese start to example but the portuguese start to example but the portuguese start to realize that rather than steal your own realize that rather than steal your own realize that rather than steal your own men that man stealing is another term men that man stealing is another term men that man stealing is another term that they used to use for slavery man that they used to use for slavery man that they used to use for slavery man stealing rather than steal your own stealing rather than steal your own stealing rather than steal your own people you could just tap into the people you could just tap into the people you could just tap into the already existing trade network you know already existing trade network you know already existing trade network you know make deals with rulers in these areas make deals with rulers in these areas make deals with rulers in these areas and let them just cut you in for some of and let them just cut you in for some of and let them just cut you in for some of the slaves they're already capturing and the slaves they're already capturing and the slaves they're already capturing and selling to other people anyway a lot of people are going to make a lot a lot of people are going to make a lot of money during this time period of money during this time period of money during this time period and that's another thing that's worth and that's another thing that's worth and that's another thing that's worth dealing with is one of those dealing with is one of those dealing with is one of those strands to try to unpack here and it's a strands to try to unpack here and it's a strands to try to unpack here and it's a key reason why key reason why key reason why even people who had nothing to do with even people who had nothing to do with even people who had nothing to do with slavery ostensibly slavery ostensibly slavery ostensibly were impossible to disentangle from the were impossible to disentangle from the were impossible to disentangle from the slave trade because money touched

slave trade because money touched slave trade because money touched everything everything everything and connected everything and connected everything and connected everything and you never want to say that money is and you never want to say that money is and you never want to say that money is not important not important not important but in different time periods things but in different time periods things but in different time periods things like currency and trade are more like currency and trade are more like currency and trade are more important than others important than others important than others uh in the europe after uh rome fell uh in the europe after uh rome fell uh in the europe after uh rome fell there was i mean if you could see again there was i mean if you could see again there was i mean if you could see again the business graphs of historic the business graphs of historic the business graphs of historic performance and economic output over the performance and economic output over the performance and economic output over the eras i mean that's going to be a kind of eras i mean that's going to be a kind of eras i mean that's going to be a kind of a down period there were some places a down period there were some places a down period there were some places returned to more barter systems trade returned to more barter systems trade returned to more barter systems trade was curtailed um it was in the middle was curtailed um it was in the middle was curtailed um it was in the middle ages again the part that was percolating ages again the part that was percolating ages again the part that was percolating beneath the renaissance and then beneath the renaissance and then beneath the renaissance and then exploded where you started to see the exploded where you started to see the exploded where you started to see the merchant classes develop and it became merchant classes develop and it became merchant classes develop and it became so powerful and it made enough money so powerful and it made enough money so powerful and it made enough money that they wanted uh to be more like blue that they wanted uh to be more like blue that they wanted uh to be more like blue bloods in the nobility you started bloods in the nobility you started bloods in the nobility you started seeing the banking houses that would seeing the banking houses that would seeing the banking houses that would eventually be very powerful arise eventually be very powerful arise eventually be very powerful arise you started seeing trade increase in you started seeing trade increase in you started seeing trade increase in places like the baltic or the hanseatic places like the baltic or the hanseatic places like the baltic or the hanseatic league and all that and and the rise of league and all that and and the rise of league and all that and and the rise of the italian city-states uh even during the italian city-states uh even during the italian city-states uh even during the crusades that were financing these the crusades that were financing these the crusades that were financing these things right so you begin to see things right so you begin to see things right so you begin to see modern systems of investment right and modern systems of investment right and modern systems of investment right and shareholders and all sorts of things shareholders and all sorts of things shareholders and all sorts of things that look again very modern indeed that look again very modern indeed that look again very modern indeed you even see it affect everything you even see it affect everything you even see it affect everything like exploration and warfare so this is like exploration and warfare so this is like exploration and warfare so this is a time period in history a time period in history a time period in history where a lot of places will just hire where a lot of places will just hire where a lot of places will just hire their defense forces their defense forces their defense forces and usually they'll just like in italy and usually they'll just like in italy and usually they'll just like in italy they'll hire a general you know it's a they'll hire a general you know it's a they'll hire a general you know it's a condatieri and that's a word that can is condatieri and that's a word that can is condatieri and that's a word that can is connected to contract right so you hire connected to contract right so you hire connected to contract right so you hire him you sign a contract and they often him you sign a contract and they often him you sign a contract and they often come with their own armies everybody come with their own armies everybody come with their own armies everybody signs a contract for two years we will

signs a contract for two years we will signs a contract for two years we will uh be the army of this italian state uh be the army of this italian state uh be the army of this italian state and this approach to dealing with things and this approach to dealing with things and this approach to dealing with things actually actually actually is involved in the columbus explorations is involved in the columbus explorations is involved in the columbus explorations i mean this looks like a giant uh i mean this looks like a giant uh i mean this looks like a giant uh well-invested well-capitalized financial well-invested well-capitalized financial well-invested well-capitalized financial expedition it's it's entrepreneurial expedition it's it's entrepreneurial expedition it's it's entrepreneurial colonialism in a sense i mean columbus colonialism in a sense i mean columbus colonialism in a sense i mean columbus if you follow his career he went and if you follow his career he went and if you follow his career he went and gave presentations to potential gave presentations to potential gave presentations to potential investors it's like right out of a investors it's like right out of a investors it's like right out of a renaissance version of shark tank renaissance version of shark tank renaissance version of shark tank you know goes to these people and says i you know goes to these people and says i you know goes to these people and says i have a proposal i'm gonna go uh in the have a proposal i'm gonna go uh in the have a proposal i'm gonna go uh in the other direction other direction other direction and reach asia and we can open up our and reach asia and we can open up our and reach asia and we can open up our own direct trade channels right this is own direct trade channels right this is own direct trade channels right this is a trade deal this is a money-making a trade deal this is a money-making a trade deal this is a money-making thing thing thing he's going to be like pier 1 imports he's going to be like pier 1 imports he's going to be like pier 1 imports you know the 1492 style version of it you know the 1492 style version of it you know the 1492 style version of it and he gets put off and and the and he gets put off and and the and he gets put off and and the investors don't think he's got his investors don't think he's got his investors don't think he's got his calculations right but at one point the calculations right but at one point the calculations right but at one point the rulers of castile who will eventually rulers of castile who will eventually rulers of castile who will eventually become the spanish monarchy they decide become the spanish monarchy they decide become the spanish monarchy they decide they like his idea enough that they they like his idea enough that they they like his idea enough that they don't want him taking it elsewhere so don't want him taking it elsewhere so don't want him taking it elsewhere so they give him some money to sit tight on they give him some money to sit tight on they give him some money to sit tight on it it's almost like a renaissance it it's almost like a renaissance it it's almost like a renaissance version of a non-disclosure agreement or version of a non-disclosure agreement or version of a non-disclosure agreement or non-compete non-compete non-compete but when columbus eventually undertakes but when columbus eventually undertakes but when columbus eventually undertakes this expedition he's acting as an agent this expedition he's acting as an agent this expedition he's acting as an agent of the monarchy of castile right the of the monarchy of castile right the of the monarchy of castile right the spanish monarchy to be spanish monarchy to be spanish monarchy to be but he's not the spanish navy but he's not the spanish navy but he's not the spanish navy he's also getting a percentage deal he's also getting a percentage deal he's also getting a percentage deal um um um all right well a percentage deal doesn't all right well a percentage deal doesn't all right well a percentage deal doesn't sound like it's out of place when you're sound like it's out of place when you're sound like it's out of place when you're talking about establishing trade routes talking about establishing trade routes talking about establishing trade routes with already established great states in with already established great states in with already established great states in asia asia asia um um um since that was the plan it looks very

since that was the plan it looks very since that was the plan it looks very different indeed when you stumble upon different indeed when you stumble upon different indeed when you stumble upon lands that are not what you thought and lands that are not what you thought and lands that are not what you thought and have people on it who cannot militarily have people on it who cannot militarily have people on it who cannot militarily resist you then if you're columbus and you're then if you're columbus and you're getting a percent of whatever you find getting a percent of whatever you find getting a percent of whatever you find or put together or whatever this or put together or whatever this or put together or whatever this expedition turns out in terms of expedition turns out in terms of expedition turns out in terms of proceeds what are your proceeds when you proceeds what are your proceeds when you proceeds what are your proceeds when you land in modern day land in modern day land in modern day haiti or cuba haiti or cuba haiti or cuba well it gets a little bit dicey doesn't well it gets a little bit dicey doesn't well it gets a little bit dicey doesn't it it it and once again i think and once again i think and once again i think the angle i'd like to look at this from the angle i'd like to look at this from the angle i'd like to look at this from now and we're going to change this angle now and we're going to change this angle now and we're going to change this angle over the course of this discussion it over the course of this discussion it over the course of this discussion it will focus on different things at will focus on different things at will focus on different things at different times different times different times but i'm trying to get into the but i'm trying to get into the but i'm trying to get into the you know how impossible this is we're you know how impossible this is we're you know how impossible this is we're playing a game here right just little playing a game here right just little playing a game here right just little games to see if we can get a step closer games to see if we can get a step closer games to see if we can get a step closer to understanding things a little bit to understanding things a little bit to understanding things a little bit more in context with these people more in context with these people more in context with these people i mean if you take the human element out i mean if you take the human element out i mean if you take the human element out of this question i forget about of this question i forget about of this question i forget about suffering and injustice and death and suffering and injustice and death and suffering and injustice and death and torture and all the things that this torture and all the things that this torture and all the things that this involves and just think of it in you involves and just think of it in you involves and just think of it in you know a profit or loss sort of way know a profit or loss sort of way know a profit or loss sort of way um the story has it's interesting how as um the story has it's interesting how as um the story has it's interesting how as i said it sort of falls into place i said it sort of falls into place i said it sort of falls into place i mean take columbus to start with here i mean take columbus to start with here i mean take columbus to start with here for a second for a second for a second now i've read some stuff recently that now i've read some stuff recently that now i've read some stuff recently that suggests that maybe uh the traditional suggests that maybe uh the traditional suggests that maybe uh the traditional interpretation of what columbus was interpretation of what columbus was interpretation of what columbus was after may be wrong i still think those after may be wrong i still think those after may be wrong i still think those are really outlier things so i'm not are really outlier things so i'm not are really outlier things so i'm not going to go down that tangent but i going to go down that tangent but i going to go down that tangent but i wanted to acknowledge that you know he wanted to acknowledge that you know he wanted to acknowledge that you know he may have told his investors one thing

may have told his investors one thing may have told his investors one thing and had a different thing in mind but and had a different thing in mind but and had a different thing in mind but but the traditional um impression given but the traditional um impression given but the traditional um impression given by columbus himself by columbus himself by columbus himself apparently was that he was looking for apparently was that he was looking for apparently was that he was looking for another route to asia another route to asia another route to asia why would he want this money why would he want this money why would he want this money okay asia is where and asia in air okay asia is where and asia in air okay asia is where and asia in air quotes because these guys have like a quotes because these guys have like a quotes because these guys have like a marco polo level of uh of understanding marco polo level of uh of understanding marco polo level of uh of understanding of asia what's more it's like a time of asia what's more it's like a time of asia what's more it's like a time machine version i was reading that one machine version i was reading that one machine version i was reading that one of the uh people they were hoping to of the uh people they were hoping to of the uh people they were hoping to hook up with was the mongol khan um in hook up with was the mongol khan um in hook up with was the mongol khan um in order to make a sort of a trade deal order to make a sort of a trade deal order to make a sort of a trade deal with them but they don't know the mongol with them but they don't know the mongol with them but they don't know the mongol khan's not in charge of khan's not in charge of khan's not in charge of uh the area anymore right their uh the area anymore right their uh the area anymore right their information's like like seeing the light information's like like seeing the light information's like like seeing the light of a star from so far away you're seeing of a star from so far away you're seeing of a star from so far away you're seeing you know the past light of a star marco you know the past light of a star marco you know the past light of a star marco polo is the past light of what asia was polo is the past light of what asia was polo is the past light of what asia was but they know that's where the good but they know that's where the good but they know that's where the good spices and all that stuff come from spices and all that stuff come from spices and all that stuff come from right right right think of the money involved the spices think of the money involved the spices think of the money involved the spices and all the good stuff from asia in air and all the good stuff from asia in air and all the good stuff from asia in air quotes that stuff comes via a land route quotes that stuff comes via a land route quotes that stuff comes via a land route to the mediterranean european part of to the mediterranean european part of to the mediterranean european part of the world the world the world um caravans and all those sorts of um caravans and all those sorts of um caravans and all those sorts of things and generally you know merchant things and generally you know merchant things and generally you know merchant to merchant to merchant handoffs and we to merchant to merchant handoffs and we to merchant to merchant handoffs and we all know there's juice on each of those all know there's juice on each of those all know there's juice on each of those deals right deals right deals right so by the time that arrives in the um in so by the time that arrives in the um in so by the time that arrives in the um in the the the i don't know what we want to call it the i don't know what we want to call it the i don't know what we want to call it the euro mediterranean theater north africa euro mediterranean theater north africa euro mediterranean theater north africa that whole area um these spices are old that whole area um these spices are old that whole area um these spices are old so they're not exactly fresh and uh so they're not exactly fresh and uh so they're not exactly fresh and uh there have been a lot of markups along there have been a lot of markups along there have been a lot of markups along the way so they're very very expensive i the way so they're very very expensive i the way so they're very very expensive i mean what was the old television mean what was the old television mean what was the old television commercial with the crazy eddie guy you commercial with the crazy eddie guy you commercial with the crazy eddie guy you know um you know cut out the middlemen know um you know cut out the middlemen know um you know cut out the middlemen and save columbus really made it to asia

and save columbus really made it to asia and save columbus really made it to asia in air quotes uh the middleman's gone in air quotes uh the middleman's gone in air quotes uh the middleman's gone and the spices will arrive fresh and the spices will arrive fresh and the spices will arrive fresh and you can tap into a completely ripe and you can tap into a completely ripe and you can tap into a completely ripe and ready to go and already operating in and ready to go and already operating in and ready to go and already operating in a trading operation right all you have a trading operation right all you have a trading operation right all you have to do is make a deal and give them to do is make a deal and give them to do is make a deal and give them something and fill your ships with the something and fill your ships with the something and fill your ships with the good stuff and head back home good stuff and head back home good stuff and head back home everybody makes a fortune easy to everybody makes a fortune easy to everybody makes a fortune easy to calculate uh columbus's percentage then calculate uh columbus's percentage then calculate uh columbus's percentage then right columbus has stumbled upon a completely columbus has stumbled upon a completely different sort of business thing different sort of business thing different sort of business thing when he rolls up into the caribbean when he rolls up into the caribbean when he rolls up into the caribbean i had an investor once explained to me i had an investor once explained to me i had an investor once explained to me that he considers there to be two kinds that he considers there to be two kinds that he considers there to be two kinds of investments and he called them green of investments and he called them green of investments and he called them green bananas and yellow bananas bananas and yellow bananas bananas and yellow bananas yellow bananas are investments that are yellow bananas are investments that are yellow bananas are investments that are going to be ripe quickly that will pay going to be ripe quickly that will pay going to be ripe quickly that will pay off in the short term off in the short term off in the short term green bananas are the ones that require green bananas are the ones that require green bananas are the ones that require watering and fertilizing and pruning and watering and fertilizing and pruning and watering and fertilizing and pruning and maintenance and all sorts of investment maintenance and all sorts of investment maintenance and all sorts of investment to eventually turn into something that to eventually turn into something that to eventually turn into something that is paying off is paying off is paying off columbus was heading if the asia columbus was heading if the asia columbus was heading if the asia destination thing that we've always destination thing that we've always destination thing that we've always thought was true was true columbus was thought was true was true columbus was thought was true was true columbus was looking for a yellow banana deal and he looking for a yellow banana deal and he looking for a yellow banana deal and he stumbled into a green banana deal he has stumbled into a green banana deal he has stumbled into a green banana deal he has obviously found something valuable obviously found something valuable obviously found something valuable and he's got to be giddy don't you think and he's got to be giddy don't you think and he's got to be giddy don't you think this was a guy that if you were betting this was a guy that if you were betting this was a guy that if you were betting on it you were gonna bet he was gonna on it you were gonna bet he was gonna on it you were gonna bet he was gonna die die die somewhere on the way you know off the somewhere on the way you know off the somewhere on the way you know off the map to the west map to the west map to the west so just surviving is a victory not

so just surviving is a victory not so just surviving is a victory not having his crew mutiny because they having his crew mutiny because they having his crew mutiny because they think that they're never going to get to think that they're never going to get to think that they're never going to get to any destination you know throwing him any destination you know throwing him any destination you know throwing him overboard and then going home or taking overboard and then going home or taking overboard and then going home or taking the ship and himself going home and then the ship and himself going home and then the ship and himself going home and then living in you know shame and disrepute living in you know shame and disrepute living in you know shame and disrepute and embarrassment i mean so this is a and embarrassment i mean so this is a and embarrassment i mean so this is a victory no matter what but it's not what victory no matter what but it's not what victory no matter what but it's not what he was after apparently right he's after he was after apparently right he's after he was after apparently right he's after an instant payoff and he's arrived at an instant payoff and he's arrived at an instant payoff and he's arrived at something that's going to require some something that's going to require some something that's going to require some work the good news is the good news is there's a labor force when he gets to there's a labor force when he gets to there's a labor force when he gets to the new world and it's the indigenous the new world and it's the indigenous the new world and it's the indigenous people of the americas right there's people of the americas right there's people of the americas right there's millions of them millions of them millions of them we have already established we have already established we have already established the old world's attitudes about things the old world's attitudes about things the old world's attitudes about things like slavery and forced labor and all like slavery and forced labor and all like slavery and forced labor and all that kind of stuff so it won't be any that kind of stuff so it won't be any that kind of stuff so it won't be any problem um you know deciding how to problem um you know deciding how to problem um you know deciding how to employ the indigenous labor one way or employ the indigenous labor one way or employ the indigenous labor one way or the other but you've got people here to the other but you've got people here to the other but you've got people here to turn green bananas into yellow bananas turn green bananas into yellow bananas turn green bananas into yellow bananas right create cash cows out of these right create cash cows out of these right create cash cows out of these places extract all the places extract all the places extract all the the good juice that these islands can the good juice that these islands can the good juice that these islands can produce including sugar cane juice and a produce including sugar cane juice and a produce including sugar cane juice and a lot of them tobacco juice and other ones lot of them tobacco juice and other ones lot of them tobacco juice and other ones that's gross tobacco juice that's gross tobacco juice that's gross tobacco juice you can see by the way in the letters you can see by the way in the letters you can see by the way in the letters columbus writes back columbus writes back columbus writes back uh there's one you can read uh you can uh there's one you can read uh you can uh there's one you can read uh you can find online where i guess he's writing find online where i guess he's writing find online where i guess he's writing the treasurer or something these are the the treasurer or something these are the the treasurer or something these are the investor type people and he's basically investor type people and he's basically investor type people and he's basically explaining explaining explaining you know that we found great stuff and you know that we found great stuff and you know that we found great stuff and the potential's huge and there's as much the potential's huge and there's as much the potential's huge and there's as much gold as you want all this kind of stuff gold as you want all this kind of stuff gold as you want all this kind of stuff it just is going to require a little bit it just is going to require a little bit it just is going to require a little bit more money i mean this is this is fully more money i mean this is this is fully more money i mean this is this is fully stuff that looks like one of those

stuff that looks like one of those stuff that looks like one of those dot-com dot-com dot-com startup ceos telling his old-line startup ceos telling his old-line startup ceos telling his old-line investors uh yeah it's not exactly what investors uh yeah it's not exactly what investors uh yeah it's not exactly what we thought but this is maybe even better we thought but this is maybe even better we thought but this is maybe even better just need a little bit more money just need a little bit more money just need a little bit more money another round of financing another round of financing another round of financing but he's laying out all this stuff that but he's laying out all this stuff that but he's laying out all this stuff that this that this new this that this new this that this new find that he's claimed for his employers find that he's claimed for his employers find that he's claimed for his employers in spain you know all these ways it's in spain you know all these ways it's in spain you know all these ways it's going to pay off going to pay off going to pay off gold and the stuff that you can grab off gold and the stuff that you can grab off gold and the stuff that you can grab off the natives ears or trade or trade for the natives ears or trade or trade for the natives ears or trade or trade for their uh bracelets or other jewelry i their uh bracelets or other jewelry i their uh bracelets or other jewelry i mean that's movable wealth right now mean that's movable wealth right now mean that's movable wealth right now you have people which as we've already you have people which as we've already you have people which as we've already explained during this period is movable explained during this period is movable explained during this period is movable wealth wealth wealth and columbus will quickly do a couple of and columbus will quickly do a couple of and columbus will quickly do a couple of voyages back and forth across the voyages back and forth across the voyages back and forth across the atlantic and he'll take indigenous atlantic and he'll take indigenous atlantic and he'll take indigenous peoples back with him to spain kind of peoples back with him to spain kind of peoples back with him to spain kind of to show off listen these people make to show off listen these people make to show off listen these people make great slaves or whatever but great slaves or whatever but great slaves or whatever but they start dying quickly in large they start dying quickly in large they start dying quickly in large numbers numbers numbers and that's going to be the problem and that's going to be the problem and that's going to be the problem that crops up in this whole green banana that crops up in this whole green banana that crops up in this whole green banana long-term investment deal long-term investment deal long-term investment deal the indigenous peoples who are going to the indigenous peoples who are going to the indigenous peoples who are going to be the labor force here be the labor force here be the labor force here are dying like flies are dying like flies are dying like flies from multiple causes from multiple causes from multiple causes these causes are so these causes are so these causes are so fascinating extreme hardcore intense fascinating extreme hardcore intense fascinating extreme hardcore intense however you want to phrase it um however you want to phrase it um however you want to phrase it um that it takes every ounce of my strength that it takes every ounce of my strength that it takes every ounce of my strength without a script here to keep me without a script here to keep me without a script here to keep me anchored anchored anchored to to to resist the ouija board like pull resist the ouija board like pull resist the ouija board like pull of the storytelling towards the of the storytelling towards the of the storytelling towards the unbelievably fascinating nature

unbelievably fascinating nature unbelievably fascinating nature of shall we call it first contact of shall we call it first contact of shall we call it first contact fallout fallout fallout i did a couple of takes where it just i did a couple of takes where it just i did a couple of takes where it just went off forever i mean you would have went off forever i mean you would have went off forever i mean you would have been justifiable if you'd said something been justifiable if you'd said something been justifiable if you'd said something like i didn't like the show i thought it like i didn't like the show i thought it like i didn't like the show i thought it was supposed to be about something else was supposed to be about something else was supposed to be about something else so i'm trying to avoid doing that again so i'm trying to avoid doing that again so i'm trying to avoid doing that again but it's worth pointing out but it's worth pointing out but it's worth pointing out that what creates the situation that that what creates the situation that that what creates the situation that leads to the atlantic slave trade leads to the atlantic slave trade leads to the atlantic slave trade involves the fact involves the fact involves the fact that these indigenous peoples who that these indigenous peoples who that these indigenous peoples who otherwise would be the workforce aren't otherwise would be the workforce aren't otherwise would be the workforce aren't around anymore and around anymore and around anymore and the number one reason i don't know what the number one reason i don't know what the number one reason i don't know what two three four five six would be ranked two three four five six would be ranked two three four five six would be ranked but it's number one and then everything but it's number one and then everything but it's number one and then everything else the number one reason for this is else the number one reason for this is else the number one reason for this is the german tastrophe and the germ the german tastrophe and the germ the german tastrophe and the germ catastrophe is catastrophe is catastrophe is it's mind-boggling science fiction like it's mind-boggling science fiction like it's mind-boggling science fiction like twilight zone it's got all those twilight zone it's got all those twilight zone it's got all those elements that fascinate someone like me elements that fascinate someone like me elements that fascinate someone like me but there's a little guilt in the fact but there's a little guilt in the fact but there's a little guilt in the fact that it's a holocaust and for the most that it's a holocaust and for the most that it's a holocaust and for the most part it's a hidden holocaust the part it's a hidden holocaust the part it's a hidden holocaust the majority of the people affected and the majority of the people affected and the majority of the people affected and the victims of this are going to be in the victims of this are going to be in the victims of this are going to be in the interiors of the americas interiors of the americas interiors of the americas uh having caught these uh having caught these uh having caught these ailments from ailments from ailments from you know other indigenous peoples you know other indigenous peoples you know other indigenous peoples through the trade routes and everything through the trade routes and everything through the trade routes and everything that they have going and uh most of that they have going and uh most of that they have going and uh most of these places in the deep interiors of these places in the deep interiors of these places in the deep interiors of the far areas of the americas continent the far areas of the americas continent the far areas of the americas continent won't be discovered for a century or won't be discovered for a century or won't be discovered for a century or more more more when lewis and clark by the way finds when lewis and clark by the way finds when lewis and clark by the way finds the peoples and cultures of the the peoples and cultures of the the peoples and cultures of the northwest and places like that and then northwest and places like that and then northwest and places like that and then tells the people back in the eastern tells the people back in the eastern tells the people back in the eastern united states what these cultures are united states what these cultures are united states what these cultures are like he has no idea that he's looking at

like he has no idea that he's looking at like he has no idea that he's looking at remnants and survivors and remnants and survivors and remnants and survivors and rebuilders and people whose cultures rebuilders and people whose cultures rebuilders and people whose cultures have been skeletonized and whose numbers have been skeletonized and whose numbers have been skeletonized and whose numbers reduced reduced reduced by 80 to 95 percent by 80 to 95 percent by 80 to 95 percent there's never been anything like that there's never been anything like that there's never been anything like that in his book the slave trade author hugh in his book the slave trade author hugh in his book the slave trade author hugh thomas calls it a population collapse thomas calls it a population collapse thomas calls it a population collapse um i'm always um i'm always um i'm always fascinated with things like the black fascinated with things like the black fascinated with things like the black death in europe but 85 to 95 numbers is death in europe but 85 to 95 numbers is death in europe but 85 to 95 numbers is much worse than the black death and much worse than the black death and much worse than the black death and what's so fascinating about how europe what's so fascinating about how europe what's so fascinating about how europe and places affected by the black death and places affected by the black death and places affected by the black death or maybe you could even go back and say or maybe you could even go back and say or maybe you could even go back and say the justinian plague the justinian plague the justinian plague earlier than that is what they do to earlier than that is what they do to earlier than that is what they do to societies societies societies it's not just the number of people who it's not just the number of people who it's not just the number of people who die it's it it starts destroying the die it's it it starts destroying the die it's it it starts destroying the things the framework of societies um you things the framework of societies um you things the framework of societies um you know the the the religious bedrock sorts know the the the religious bedrock sorts know the the the religious bedrock sorts of elements the interaction between of elements the interaction between of elements the interaction between human beings the hierarchies i mean human beings the hierarchies i mean human beings the hierarchies i mean everything gets turned upside down and everything gets turned upside down and everything gets turned upside down and society's become unstable society's become unstable society's become unstable and the survivors are like and the survivors are like and the survivors are like traumatized sometimes for generations traumatized sometimes for generations traumatized sometimes for generations and then when it comes back again and and then when it comes back again and and then when it comes back again and takes out the survivors well takes out the survivors well takes out the survivors well as charles c mann had written about as charles c mann had written about as charles c mann had written about these diseases and i mean this is the these diseases and i mean this is the these diseases and i mean this is the closest you'll ever find to a literal closest you'll ever find to a literal closest you'll ever find to a literal version where you could use the term version where you could use the term version where you could use the term pandora's box pandora's box pandora's box and have it apply because when the and have it apply because when the and have it apply because when the europeans show up and it's not just the europeans show up and it's not just the europeans show up and it's not just the first you know crop of them i mean it's first you know crop of them i mean it's first you know crop of them i mean it's this establishing this regular back and this establishing this regular back and this establishing this regular back and forth is what really because the vikings

forth is what really because the vikings forth is what really because the vikings didn't spread a germ-tastrophe right didn't spread a germ-tastrophe right didn't spread a germ-tastrophe right when they were here in the 1020s but when they were here in the 1020s but when they were here in the 1020s but when it gets going it involves when it gets going it involves when it gets going it involves all the diseases against a population all the diseases against a population all the diseases against a population that's never had any of them that's never had any of them that's never had any of them charles c mann wrote quote it was as if charles c mann wrote quote it was as if charles c mann wrote quote it was as if the suffering these diseases had caused the suffering these diseases had caused the suffering these diseases had caused in eurasia over the past millennia were in eurasia over the past millennia were in eurasia over the past millennia were concentrated into the span of decades concentrated into the span of decades concentrated into the span of decades end quote end quote end quote in his book in human bondage a historian in his book in human bondage a historian in his book in human bondage a historian of slavery david breon davis of slavery david breon davis of slavery david breon davis puts it this way to give you a sense of puts it this way to give you a sense of puts it this way to give you a sense of i mean if this is a pandora's box of i mean if this is a pandora's box of i mean if this is a pandora's box of of um of um of um bad things that can happen to you what bad things that can happen to you what bad things that can happen to you what exactly are these bad things name you exactly are these bad things name you exactly are these bad things name you know what's in the box davis writes know what's in the box davis writes know what's in the box davis writes quote quote quote the amer indians throughout the the amer indians throughout the the amer indians throughout the hemisphere had little capacity for hemisphere had little capacity for hemisphere had little capacity for resisting imported diseases both resisting imported diseases both resisting imported diseases both temperate and tropical pathogens temperate and tropical pathogens temperate and tropical pathogens including smallpox malaria yellow fever including smallpox malaria yellow fever including smallpox malaria yellow fever influenza typhus and the plague given influenza typhus and the plague given influenza typhus and the plague given the previous isolation of the western the previous isolation of the western the previous isolation of the western hemisphere this disaster has been called hemisphere this disaster has been called hemisphere this disaster has been called a virgin soil pandemic even whites he a virgin soil pandemic even whites he a virgin soil pandemic even whites he writes suffered heavy mortality of the writes suffered heavy mortality of the writes suffered heavy mortality of the 2500 colonists who arrived in hispaniola 2500 colonists who arrived in hispaniola 2500 colonists who arrived in hispaniola in 1502 in 1502 in 1502 1000 died in a fairly short period of 1000 died in a fairly short period of 1000 died in a fairly short period of time time time but the spaniards were bewildered he but the spaniards were bewildered he but the spaniards were bewildered he writes and some even horrified as the writes and some even horrified as the writes and some even horrified as the indian population seemed to evaporate indian population seemed to evaporate indian population seemed to evaporate before their eyes before their eyes before their eyes end quote

end quote end quote he also writes that they couldn't just he also writes that they couldn't just he also writes that they couldn't just compensate for the disease deaths by compensate for the disease deaths by compensate for the disease deaths by increasing the birth rate because the increasing the birth rate because the increasing the birth rate because the people of childbearing years were as people of childbearing years were as people of childbearing years were as badly affected as the old and the young badly affected as the old and the young badly affected as the old and the young took out everybody took out everybody took out everybody in terms of numbers well because no one in terms of numbers well because no one in terms of numbers well because no one knows how many people knows how many people knows how many people were in the americas in the were in the americas in the were in the americas in the pre-columbian era and nobody has a good pre-columbian era and nobody has a good pre-columbian era and nobody has a good idea of numbers or percentages and some idea of numbers or percentages and some idea of numbers or percentages and some of this stuff i mean you keep your of this stuff i mean you keep your of this stuff i mean you keep your fingers crossed might be answered by fingers crossed might be answered by fingers crossed might be answered by dna type stuff in the future but dna type stuff in the future but dna type stuff in the future but davis writes quote davis writes quote davis writes quote while specialists differ with respect to while specialists differ with respect to while specialists differ with respect to numbers which are necessarily somewhat numbers which are necessarily somewhat numbers which are necessarily somewhat speculative we are clearly considering speculative we are clearly considering speculative we are clearly considering the greatest known population loss in the greatest known population loss in the greatest known population loss in human history that is mortality is a human history that is mortality is a human history that is mortality is a percentage of population the population percentage of population the population percentage of population the population of central mexico may well have fallen of central mexico may well have fallen of central mexico may well have fallen by almost 90 percent in 75 years by almost 90 percent in 75 years by almost 90 percent in 75 years estimates for peru and chile he writes estimates for peru and chile he writes estimates for peru and chile he writes where the diseases spread well before where the diseases spread well before where the diseases spread well before the arrival of europeans are almost as the arrival of europeans are almost as the arrival of europeans are almost as high the death rate was even worse in high the death rate was even worse in high the death rate was even worse in the caribbean he writes where pestilence the caribbean he writes where pestilence the caribbean he writes where pestilence coincided with the ecomienda system and coincided with the ecomienda system and coincided with the ecomienda system and much mass slaughter estimates of much mass slaughter estimates of much mass slaughter estimates of hispaniola's pre-columbian arawak and i hispaniola's pre-columbian arawak and i hispaniola's pre-columbian arawak and i believe it's taino believe it's taino believe it's taino indian population range from about 300 indian population range from about 300 indian population range from about 300 000 to half a million 000 to half a million 000 to half a million by the 1540s there were fewer than 500 by the 1540s there were fewer than 500 by the 1540s there were fewer than 500 survivors survivors survivors end quote end quote end quote now the thing about the germ-tastrophe now the thing about the germ-tastrophe now the thing about the germ-tastrophe is that for the most part i'm sure we

is that for the most part i'm sure we is that for the most part i'm sure we can quibble and there's ways you could can quibble and there's ways you could can quibble and there's ways you could argue that it would impact numbers one argue that it would impact numbers one argue that it would impact numbers one way but for the most part uh it wouldn't way but for the most part uh it wouldn't way but for the most part uh it wouldn't have mattered who showed up or what have mattered who showed up or what have mattered who showed up or what their values were to initiate first their values were to initiate first their values were to initiate first contact this germ-tastrophe holocaust contact this germ-tastrophe holocaust contact this germ-tastrophe holocaust is happening anyway is happening anyway is happening anyway the people who first showed up could the people who first showed up could the people who first showed up could have been angelic pacifists have been angelic pacifists have been angelic pacifists and you're still gonna lose let's and you're still gonna lose let's and you're still gonna lose let's pretend you can make it better by having pretend you can make it better by having pretend you can make it better by having a different relationship you're still a different relationship you're still a different relationship you're still gonna lose seven out of ten it's just gonna lose seven out of ten it's just gonna lose seven out of ten it's just it's a holocaust any way you look at it it's a holocaust any way you look at it it's a holocaust any way you look at it but of course but of course but of course the people that showed up to initiate the people that showed up to initiate the people that showed up to initiate first contact are not angelic pacifists first contact are not angelic pacifists first contact are not angelic pacifists they are in fact quite the opposite they are in fact quite the opposite they are in fact quite the opposite and there's a sense here and there's a sense here and there's a sense here part of it because columbus is lucky i part of it because columbus is lucky i part of it because columbus is lucky i mean if you believe the accounts he's mean if you believe the accounts he's mean if you believe the accounts he's he's landed in the garden of eden he's landed in the garden of eden he's landed in the garden of eden he could just as easily have landed in he could just as easily have landed in he could just as easily have landed in some island full of cannibals or you some island full of cannibals or you some island full of cannibals or you know he could have gotten really unlucky know he could have gotten really unlucky know he could have gotten really unlucky in land in one of those areas of the in land in one of those areas of the in land in one of those areas of the americas that have organized states with americas that have organized states with americas that have organized states with organized militaries and people ready to organized militaries and people ready to organized militaries and people ready to resist and fighting lots of them resist and fighting lots of them resist and fighting lots of them instead he lands into a place where the instead he lands into a place where the instead he lands into a place where the the native indigenous peoples there are the native indigenous peoples there are the native indigenous peoples there are almost almost almost hopelessly hopelessly hopelessly um um um tame and submissive and passive and tame and submissive and passive and tame and submissive and passive and friendly and sharing and open and friendly and sharing and open and friendly and sharing and open and curious and innocent curious and innocent curious and innocent look at the time period these people look at the time period these people look at the time period these people coming from the old world come from coming from the old world come from coming from the old world come from let's remember you know you would think let's remember you know you would think let's remember you know you would think that history would always be moving in that history would always be moving in that history would always be moving in one direction and we'd be getting less one direction and we'd be getting less one direction and we'd be getting less and less terrible to each other over and less terrible to each other over and less terrible to each other over time right time right time right surely things being done to each other

surely things being done to each other surely things being done to each other in this time period are not as bad as in this time period are not as bad as in this time period are not as bad as when we were practically animals in the when we were practically animals in the when we were practically animals in the very distant past but you'd be surprised very distant past but you'd be surprised very distant past but you'd be surprised those of you who know this period well those of you who know this period well those of you who know this period well know what i'm talking about i mean the know what i'm talking about i mean the know what i'm talking about i mean the area you you talk from like 1400 to 1700 area you you talk from like 1400 to 1700 area you you talk from like 1400 to 1700 it's brutal it's brutal it's brutal and people have been trying to figure and people have been trying to figure and people have been trying to figure out why forever what the the culprit out why forever what the the culprit out why forever what the the culprit that that is the usual suspect although that that is the usual suspect although that that is the usual suspect although you know people make arguments um is you know people make arguments um is you know people make arguments um is religion because this is when you have religion because this is when you have religion because this is when you have the great split in western christianity the great split in western christianity the great split in western christianity you know protestantism and catholicism you know protestantism and catholicism you know protestantism and catholicism and that sort of uh turns the fire up and that sort of uh turns the fire up and that sort of uh turns the fire up maybe literally um in in the intensity maybe literally um in in the intensity maybe literally um in in the intensity level in the philosophical wars and the level in the philosophical wars and the level in the philosophical wars and the worldview and the hatred for each other worldview and the hatred for each other worldview and the hatred for each other in the in the sense that the stakes are in the in the sense that the stakes are in the in the sense that the stakes are biblical in nature biblical in nature biblical in nature the point is go look at the way the the point is go look at the way the the point is go look at the way the spanish behave in the netherlands go spanish behave in the netherlands go spanish behave in the netherlands go look at how the turks behave in the look at how the turks behave in the look at how the turks behave in the balkans go look at the 30 years war and balkans go look at the 30 years war and balkans go look at the 30 years war and the the the apocalyptic scene that is go look at the apocalyptic scene that is go look at the apocalyptic scene that is go look at the english in ireland go look at i mean how english in ireland go look at i mean how english in ireland go look at i mean how about this a generation before about this a generation before about this a generation before columbus's birth tamer lanes running columbus's birth tamer lanes running columbus's birth tamer lanes running around just east of here and you know around just east of here and you know around just east of here and you know killing 15 to 20 million people killing 15 to 20 million people killing 15 to 20 million people these people come from the geopolitical these people come from the geopolitical these people come from the geopolitical equivalent of the serengeti plane equivalent of the serengeti plane equivalent of the serengeti plane you're gonna unleash them in the you're gonna unleash them in the you're gonna unleash them in the galapagos islands galapagos islands galapagos islands and the indigenous flora and fauna there and the indigenous flora and fauna there and the indigenous flora and fauna there are going to become endangered pretty are going to become endangered pretty are going to become endangered pretty quickly we obviously don't have the indigenous

we obviously don't have the indigenous people's account people's account people's account of these happenings but we do have of these happenings but we do have of these happenings but we do have the the the um um um accounts of people who were their accounts of people who were their accounts of people who were their defenders i mean i'm thinking of one defenders i mean i'm thinking of one defenders i mean i'm thinking of one dominican spanish friar in particular dominican spanish friar in particular dominican spanish friar in particular named bartolome de las casas who is named bartolome de las casas who is named bartolome de las casas who is known as the defender of the indians known as the defender of the indians known as the defender of the indians he's a he's a famous figure in places he's a he's a famous figure in places he's a he's a famous figure in places like south america even today like south america even today like south america even today uh in spanish circles he has a more uh in spanish circles he has a more uh in spanish circles he has a more mixed heritage because who's going to mixed heritage because who's going to mixed heritage because who's going to love a person that that paints the love a person that that paints the love a person that that paints the country in such a negative light there's something known as the black there's something known as the black legend legend legend which is a contention among some which is a contention among some which is a contention among some historians that the historians that the historians that the the enemies of spain be they the enemies of spain be they the enemies of spain be they geopolitical enemies like the english or geopolitical enemies like the english or geopolitical enemies like the english or the dutch or religious enemies like the the dutch or religious enemies like the the dutch or religious enemies like the protestants of all stripes conjured up protestants of all stripes conjured up protestants of all stripes conjured up this this terrible legend of spanish this this terrible legend of spanish this this terrible legend of spanish cruelty that isn't deserved cruelty that isn't deserved cruelty that isn't deserved and bartolome de las casas work is often and bartolome de las casas work is often and bartolome de las casas work is often cited as sort of the fountainhead right cited as sort of the fountainhead right cited as sort of the fountainhead right the origin of the black legend the origin of the black legend the origin of the black legend i was trying to research this a little i was trying to research this a little i was trying to research this a little bit and i i stumbled upon one historian bit and i i stumbled upon one historian bit and i i stumbled upon one historian who you know the minute i read her who you know the minute i read her who you know the minute i read her sort of um sort of um sort of um evaluation of the situation it sort of evaluation of the situation it sort of evaluation of the situation it sort of rang true to me so that what she had rang true to me so that what she had rang true to me so that what she had said was that the black legend itself said was that the black legend itself said was that the black legend itself in terms of the facts on the ground is in terms of the facts on the ground is in terms of the facts on the ground is probably true probably true probably true uh what's going on in the americas for uh what's going on in the americas for uh what's going on in the americas for example that people like bartolome de example that people like bartolome de example that people like bartolome de las casas talks about but that the las casas talks about but that the las casas talks about but that the reason it's unfair and sort of reason it's unfair and sort of reason it's unfair and sort of propagandistic propagandistic propagandistic is by singling out the spanish as

is by singling out the spanish as is by singling out the spanish as somehow unusually cruel and different somehow unusually cruel and different somehow unusually cruel and different these people these other countries that these people these other countries that these people these other countries that were often singling out the spanish were were often singling out the spanish were were often singling out the spanish were hiding the fact that they themselves hiding the fact that they themselves hiding the fact that they themselves have a history in the americas and have a history in the americas and have a history in the americas and amongst the slave trade and all these amongst the slave trade and all these amongst the slave trade and all these things that have every bit as dark things that have every bit as dark things that have every bit as dark moments and black marks as the spanish moments and black marks as the spanish moments and black marks as the spanish stuff so it's unfair to single them out stuff so it's unfair to single them out stuff so it's unfair to single them out for behavior all these european colonial for behavior all these european colonial for behavior all these european colonial powers will be engaged in one way or the powers will be engaged in one way or the powers will be engaged in one way or the other other other but de las casas talks about the spanish but de las casas talks about the spanish but de las casas talks about the spanish treatment of the natives um you know treatment of the natives um you know treatment of the natives um you know aside from the whole disease question aside from the whole disease question aside from the whole disease question and he basically portrays them just the and he basically portrays them just the and he basically portrays them just the way we suggested like way we suggested like way we suggested like predators used to fighting and dying predators used to fighting and dying predators used to fighting and dying over the waterhole over the waterhole over the waterhole in the serengeti who are unleashed upon in the serengeti who are unleashed upon in the serengeti who are unleashed upon people that people that people that de las casas refers to as gentle lambs de las casas refers to as gentle lambs de las casas refers to as gentle lambs always portrayed in a sort of a garden always portrayed in a sort of a garden always portrayed in a sort of a garden of eden light and maybe the beginnings of eden light and maybe the beginnings of eden light and maybe the beginnings of some of these ideas of the noble of some of these ideas of the noble of some of these ideas of the noble savage trope and de las casas says quote savage trope and de las casas says quote savage trope and de las casas says quote it was upon these gentle lambs imbued by it was upon these gentle lambs imbued by it was upon these gentle lambs imbued by their creator with all the qualities we their creator with all the qualities we their creator with all the qualities we have mentioned that from the very first have mentioned that from the very first have mentioned that from the very first day they clapped their eyes on them the day they clapped their eyes on them the day they clapped their eyes on them the spanish fell like ravening wolves upon spanish fell like ravening wolves upon spanish fell like ravening wolves upon the fold or like tigers and savage lions the fold or like tigers and savage lions the fold or like tigers and savage lions who have not eaten meat for days the who have not eaten meat for days the who have not eaten meat for days the pattern established at the outset he pattern established at the outset he pattern established at the outset he writes has remained unchanged to this writes has remained unchanged to this writes has remained unchanged to this day day day and the spaniards still do nothing save and the spaniards still do nothing save and the spaniards still do nothing save tear the natives to shreds murder them tear the natives to shreds murder them tear the natives to shreds murder them and inflict upon them untold misery

and inflict upon them untold misery and inflict upon them untold misery suffering and distress suffering and distress suffering and distress tormenting harrying and persecuting them tormenting harrying and persecuting them tormenting harrying and persecuting them mercilessly we shall in due course mercilessly we shall in due course mercilessly we shall in due course describe some of the many ingenious describe some of the many ingenious describe some of the many ingenious methods of torture that they've invented methods of torture that they've invented methods of torture that they've invented and refined for this purpose and refined for this purpose and refined for this purpose but one can get some idea of the but one can get some idea of the but one can get some idea of the effectiveness of their methods from the effectiveness of their methods from the effectiveness of their methods from the figures alone figures alone figures alone when the spanish first journeyed there when the spanish first journeyed there when the spanish first journeyed there he writes the indigenous population of he writes the indigenous population of he writes the indigenous population of the island of hispaniola stood at some 3 the island of hispaniola stood at some 3 the island of hispaniola stood at some 3 million today only 200 survive the million today only 200 survive the million today only 200 survive the island of cuba which extends for a island of cuba which extends for a island of cuba which extends for a distance almost as great as that distance almost as great as that distance almost as great as that separating valida lid from rome is now separating valida lid from rome is now separating valida lid from rome is now to all intents and purposes uninhabited to all intents and purposes uninhabited to all intents and purposes uninhabited and two other large beautiful and and two other large beautiful and and two other large beautiful and fertile islands puerto rico and jamaica fertile islands puerto rico and jamaica fertile islands puerto rico and jamaica have been similarly devastated not a have been similarly devastated not a have been similarly devastated not a living soul remains today on any of the living soul remains today on any of the living soul remains today on any of the islands in the bahamas he writes which islands in the bahamas he writes which islands in the bahamas he writes which lie to the north of hispaniola and cuba lie to the north of hispaniola and cuba lie to the north of hispaniola and cuba even though every single one of the 60 even though every single one of the 60 even though every single one of the 60 or so islands in the group as well as or so islands in the group as well as or so islands in the group as well as those known as the islands of giants and those known as the islands of giants and those known as the islands of giants and others in the area both large and small others in the area both large and small others in the area both large and small is more fertile and more beautiful than is more fertile and more beautiful than is more fertile and more beautiful than the royal gardens in seville and the the royal gardens in seville and the the royal gardens in seville and the climate is as healthy as anywhere on climate is as healthy as anywhere on climate is as healthy as anywhere on earth the native population which once earth the native population which once earth the native population which once numbered some five hundred thousand was numbered some five hundred thousand was numbered some five hundred thousand was wiped out by forcible expatriation to wiped out by forcible expatriation to wiped out by forcible expatriation to the island of hispaniola a policy the island of hispaniola a policy the island of hispaniola a policy adopted by the spanish in an endeavor to adopted by the spanish in an endeavor to adopted by the spanish in an endeavor to make up losses amongst the indigenous make up losses amongst the indigenous make up losses amongst the indigenous population of that island end quote

population of that island end quote population of that island end quote so what this dominican friar is saying so what this dominican friar is saying so what this dominican friar is saying is that is that is that already the spanish are trying to figure already the spanish are trying to figure already the spanish are trying to figure out workarounds to their labor issue as out workarounds to their labor issue as out workarounds to their labor issue as people disappear on some islands they go people disappear on some islands they go people disappear on some islands they go get them from other islands and bring get them from other islands and bring get them from other islands and bring them in which depopulates the old them in which depopulates the old them in which depopulates the old islands and then they die in the in the islands and then they die in the in the islands and then they die in the in the mines anyway mines anyway mines anyway so so so you know you can only keep that up for you know you can only keep that up for you know you can only keep that up for so long now the actual reading of de las casas now the actual reading of de las casas work work work is nightmarish is nightmarish is nightmarish i was going to include one of the really i was going to include one of the really i was going to include one of the really horrible scenes horrible scenes horrible scenes de las casas talks about uh you know de las casas talks about uh you know de las casas talks about uh you know he's very graphic it's it's einsatz he's very graphic it's it's einsatz he's very graphic it's it's einsatz group in level stuff i mean really group in level stuff i mean really group in level stuff i mean really horrible but you can't differentiate one horrible but you can't differentiate one horrible but you can't differentiate one from another from another from another and some of these things he saw himself and some of these things he saw himself and some of these things he saw himself and some he more hurt about but it's and some he more hurt about but it's and some he more hurt about but it's it's as bad as anything you can it's as bad as anything you can it's as bad as anything you can listen to listen to listen to and it completely helps explain why in and it completely helps explain why in and it completely helps explain why in addition to disease there would be less addition to disease there would be less addition to disease there would be less and less of the natives if not only are and less of the natives if not only are and less of the natives if not only are you killing them but you're scaring the you killing them but you're scaring the you killing them but you're scaring the heck out of them they're going to leave heck out of them they're going to leave heck out of them they're going to leave so these islands being depopulated is so these islands being depopulated is so these islands being depopulated is due to several things including these due to several things including these due to several things including these people fleeing people fleeing people fleeing you know who wouldn't flee you know who wouldn't flee you know who wouldn't flee but then you add to that the fact but then you add to that the fact but then you add to that the fact that when the spanish start using the that when the spanish start using the that when the spanish start using the indigenous peoples that they have left indigenous peoples that they have left indigenous peoples that they have left for the purposes that they have in mind for the purposes that they have in mind for the purposes that they have in mind right the creation of the uh you know right the creation of the uh you know right the creation of the uh you know processing plant that will turn these processing plant that will turn these processing plant that will turn these green bananas into usable yellow bananas

green bananas into usable yellow bananas green bananas into usable yellow bananas the work kills the natives the work kills the natives the work kills the natives and de las casas talks about that you and de las casas talks about that you and de las casas talks about that you know and he links it to know and he links it to know and he links it to these organized um these organized um these organized um butcheries because he will basically say butcheries because he will basically say butcheries because he will basically say that after the men are all killed the that after the men are all killed the that after the men are all killed the spanish will take what's left and those spanish will take what's left and those spanish will take what's left and those are the people that get put to work and are the people that get put to work and are the people that get put to work and de las casas says quote de las casas says quote de las casas says quote after the fighting was over and all the after the fighting was over and all the after the fighting was over and all the men had been killed the surviving men had been killed the surviving men had been killed the surviving natives usually that is natives usually that is natives usually that is the young boys women and the children the young boys women and the children the young boys women and the children were shared out between the victors one were shared out between the victors one were shared out between the victors one got thirty another forty a third as many got thirty another forty a third as many got thirty another forty a third as many as a hundred or even twice that number as a hundred or even twice that number as a hundred or even twice that number everything depended on how far one was everything depended on how far one was everything depended on how far one was in the good books of the despot who went in the good books of the despot who went in the good books of the despot who went by the title of governor the pretext by the title of governor the pretext by the title of governor the pretext under which the victims were parceled under which the victims were parceled under which the victims were parceled out in this way was that their new out in this way was that their new out in this way was that their new masters would then be in a position to masters would then be in a position to masters would then be in a position to teach them the truths of the christian teach them the truths of the christian teach them the truths of the christian faith and thus it came about that a host faith and thus it came about that a host faith and thus it came about that a host of cruel grasping and wicked men almost of cruel grasping and wicked men almost of cruel grasping and wicked men almost all of them pig ignorant were put in all of them pig ignorant were put in all of them pig ignorant were put in charge of these poor souls and they charge of these poor souls and they charge of these poor souls and they discharged this duty by sending the men discharged this duty by sending the men discharged this duty by sending the men down the mines where working conditions down the mines where working conditions down the mines where working conditions were appalling to dig for gold and were appalling to dig for gold and were appalling to dig for gold and putting the women to labor in the fields putting the women to labor in the fields putting the women to labor in the fields and on their masters estates to till the and on their masters estates to till the and on their masters estates to till the soil and raise the crops properly a task soil and raise the crops properly a task soil and raise the crops properly a task only for the toughest and strongest of only for the toughest and strongest of only for the toughest and strongest of men men men both women and men were given only wild both women and men were given only wild both women and men were given only wild grasses to eat and other unnutritious grasses to eat and other unnutritious grasses to eat and other unnutritious foodstuffs the mother of young children foodstuffs the mother of young children foodstuffs the mother of young children promptly saw their milk dry up and their

promptly saw their milk dry up and their promptly saw their milk dry up and their babies die and with the women and the babies die and with the women and the babies die and with the women and the men separated and never seeing each men separated and never seeing each men separated and never seeing each other no new children were born the men other no new children were born the men other no new children were born the men he writes he writes he writes died down in the mines from overwork and died down in the mines from overwork and died down in the mines from overwork and starvation and the same was true of the starvation and the same was true of the starvation and the same was true of the women who perished out on the estates women who perished out on the estates women who perished out on the estates the islanders previously so numerous he the islanders previously so numerous he the islanders previously so numerous he writes began to die out as would any writes began to die out as would any writes began to die out as would any nation subjected to such appalling nation subjected to such appalling nation subjected to such appalling treatment treatment treatment end quote end quote end quote in his book the slave trade author hugh in his book the slave trade author hugh in his book the slave trade author hugh thomas calls what's happening in the thomas calls what's happening in the thomas calls what's happening in the caribbean during this time period caribbean during this time period caribbean during this time period a population collapse a population collapse a population collapse and it warms the cockles of every and it warms the cockles of every and it warms the cockles of every humanist's heart to hear somebody humanist's heart to hear somebody humanist's heart to hear somebody screaming out about the injustice of it screaming out about the injustice of it screaming out about the injustice of it right into the right into the right into the pages of the history books to at least pages of the history books to at least pages of the history books to at least represent that there were good people represent that there were good people represent that there were good people out there that weren't ready to stand out there that weren't ready to stand out there that weren't ready to stand for something like this for something like this for something like this in the defense of good people by the way in the defense of good people by the way in the defense of good people by the way according to de las casas himself when according to de las casas himself when according to de las casas himself when he got to spain to inform the king of he got to spain to inform the king of he got to spain to inform the king of what was going on in the new world he what was going on in the new world he what was going on in the new world he was talking to spaniards on the street was talking to spaniards on the street was talking to spaniards on the street and people he knew and nobody had a clue and people he knew and nobody had a clue and people he knew and nobody had a clue that this was going on they were that this was going on they were that this was going on they were completely ignorant of it completely ignorant of it completely ignorant of it reminds you of stories you hear today reminds you of stories you hear today reminds you of stories you hear today about products that you like that are about products that you like that are about products that you like that are being made by virtual slave labor in being made by virtual slave labor in being made by virtual slave labor in some poor country and with us drowning some poor country and with us drowning some poor country and with us drowning in more media than you can shake a stick in more media than you can shake a stick in more media than you can shake a stick at we don't hear the story at we don't hear the story at we don't hear the story so not that hard to believe so not that hard to believe so not that hard to believe it is worth pointing out that de las it is worth pointing out that de las it is worth pointing out that de las casas views

casas views casas views on all this stuff will continue to on all this stuff will continue to on all this stuff will continue to evolve throughout his entire life evolve throughout his entire life evolve throughout his entire life and he'll start off as one person he'll and he'll start off as one person he'll and he'll start off as one person he'll evolve into a sort of a middle version evolve into a sort of a middle version evolve into a sort of a middle version of himself and then by the end of his of himself and then by the end of his of himself and then by the end of his life he will renounce some of the things life he will renounce some of the things life he will renounce some of the things uh that he believed in the middle uh that he believed in the middle uh that he believed in the middle version of his life he starts off as a version of his life he starts off as a version of his life he starts off as a guy who arrives in the new world his guy who arrives in the new world his guy who arrives in the new world his father was there like right after father was there like right after father was there like right after columbus brought delos casas as a kid columbus brought delos casas as a kid columbus brought delos casas as a kid who goes to the new world who goes to the new world who goes to the new world perfectly seemingly ready to become one perfectly seemingly ready to become one perfectly seemingly ready to become one of those colonists right he's going to of those colonists right he's going to of those colonists right he's going to own slaves i think he actually maybe did own slaves i think he actually maybe did own slaves i think he actually maybe did he's going to live that lifestyle then he's going to live that lifestyle then he's going to live that lifestyle then there's a couple of things that just there's a couple of things that just there's a couple of things that just change him change him change him one was he was an eyewitness to the one was he was an eyewitness to the one was he was an eyewitness to the conquest of the island of cuba which conquest of the island of cuba which conquest of the island of cuba which seems to have shaken him to his core seems to have shaken him to his core seems to have shaken him to his core he said something like he saw things he said something like he saw things he said something like he saw things there that no one should ever see there that no one should ever see there that no one should ever see and then he has a famous incident and i and then he has a famous incident and i and then he has a famous incident and i don't know how true any of this stuff is don't know how true any of this stuff is don't know how true any of this stuff is it they all have a sort of a george it they all have a sort of a george it they all have a sort of a george washington chopping down the cherry tree washington chopping down the cherry tree washington chopping down the cherry tree sort of ring to them sort of ring to them sort of ring to them at the same time it's it's it's often at the same time it's it's it's often at the same time it's it's it's often cited as the seminal moment in his life cited as the seminal moment in his life cited as the seminal moment in his life like when the light bulb goes off over like when the light bulb goes off over like when the light bulb goes off over his head and again whether or not that's his head and again whether or not that's his head and again whether or not that's true is questionable true is questionable true is questionable but i love it because it's another but i love it because it's another but i love it because it's another example of somebody even before de las example of somebody even before de las example of somebody even before de las casas speaking out sort of to the gods casas speaking out sort of to the gods casas speaking out sort of to the gods of history and leaving some example of a of history and leaving some example of a of history and leaving some example of a light in the darkness back then of light in the darkness back then of light in the darkness back then of somebody complaining about the somebody complaining about the somebody complaining about the inhumanity and injustice of the way inhumanity and injustice of the way inhumanity and injustice of the way people were being treated people were being treated people were being treated and it's recounted in the introduction and it's recounted in the introduction and it's recounted in the introduction to the penguin version i have of de las to the penguin version i have of de las to the penguin version i have of de las casas um casas um casas um a short account of the destruction of

a short account of the destruction of a short account of the destruction of the indies it's written by historian the indies it's written by historian the indies it's written by historian anthony pagdon and he writes quote anthony pagdon and he writes quote anthony pagdon and he writes quote the story is now a famous one the story is now a famous one the story is now a famous one that morning a recent arrival on the that morning a recent arrival on the that morning a recent arrival on the island the dominican antonio montecinos island the dominican antonio montecinos island the dominican antonio montecinos delivered a sermon in the church of delivered a sermon in the church of delivered a sermon in the church of santo domingo santo domingo santo domingo taking his text from saint john he drew taking his text from saint john he drew taking his text from saint john he drew an analogy between the natural desert in an analogy between the natural desert in an analogy between the natural desert in which the evangelist had chosen to spend which the evangelist had chosen to spend which the evangelist had chosen to spend his life and the human desert which the his life and the human desert which the his life and the human desert which the spaniards had made of the once fruitful spaniards had made of the once fruitful spaniards had made of the once fruitful quote and quote paradisical island of quote and quote paradisical island of quote and quote paradisical island of hispaniola hispaniola hispaniola he then turned upon the colonists now he then turned upon the colonists now he then turned upon the colonists now quoting the friar quote with what right quoting the friar quote with what right quoting the friar quote with what right he demanded of them and with what he demanded of them and with what he demanded of them and with what justice do you keep these poor indians justice do you keep these poor indians justice do you keep these poor indians in such cruel and horrible servitude in such cruel and horrible servitude in such cruel and horrible servitude by what authority have you made such by what authority have you made such by what authority have you made such detestable wars against these people who detestable wars against these people who detestable wars against these people who lived peacefully and gently on their own lived peacefully and gently on their own lived peacefully and gently on their own lands are these not men lands are these not men lands are these not men do they not have rational souls are you do they not have rational souls are you do they not have rational souls are you not obliged to love them as yourselves not obliged to love them as yourselves not obliged to love them as yourselves pagden then writes quote pagden then writes quote pagden then writes quote the last three questions were to become the last three questions were to become the last three questions were to become the reference of every subsequent the reference of every subsequent the reference of every subsequent struggle to defend the rights of the struggle to defend the rights of the struggle to defend the rights of the indigenous peoples of the americas indigenous peoples of the americas indigenous peoples of the americas for las casas in particular the third for las casas in particular the third for las casas in particular the third are you not obliged to love them as are you not obliged to love them as are you not obliged to love them as yourselves was to guide his actions for yourselves was to guide his actions for yourselves was to guide his actions for the rest of his life the rest of his life the rest of his life end quote now as i said de las casas views will

now as i said de las casas views will continue to evolve for the rest of his continue to evolve for the rest of his continue to evolve for the rest of his life and he won't believe at the end of life and he won't believe at the end of life and he won't believe at the end of his life what he believes in the middle his life what he believes in the middle his life what he believes in the middle of his life just like he didn't believe of his life just like he didn't believe of his life just like he didn't believe in the middle of his life what he in the middle of his life what he in the middle of his life what he believed earlier on believed earlier on believed earlier on in the middle of his life he thinks he in the middle of his life he thinks he in the middle of his life he thinks he has an answer has an answer has an answer to how to stop this population collapse to how to stop this population collapse to how to stop this population collapse and this injustice and this injustice and this injustice his answer is to bring in other people his answer is to bring in other people his answer is to bring in other people to do the work that is killing the to do the work that is killing the to do the work that is killing the indigenous people indigenous people indigenous people and the other people he thinks should be and the other people he thinks should be and the other people he thinks should be brought in to do this brought in to do this brought in to do this are africans from sub-sahara are africans from sub-sahara are africans from sub-sahara black africa black africa black africa a couple decades later in his life he a couple decades later in his life he a couple decades later in his life he will decide that no one should be slaves will decide that no one should be slaves will decide that no one should be slaves but during this time period he thinks but during this time period he thinks but during this time period he thinks that this is the humanitarian answer that this is the humanitarian answer that this is the humanitarian answer and what's so hard for us to get our and what's so hard for us to get our and what's so hard for us to get our minds around is that minds around is that minds around is that it actually probably is some sort of an it actually probably is some sort of an it actually probably is some sort of an advance advance advance but it's a 16th century version of a but it's a 16th century version of a but it's a 16th century version of a moral humanitarian advance moral humanitarian advance moral humanitarian advance which doesn't look like much of an which doesn't look like much of an which doesn't look like much of an advance to those of us in the 21st advance to those of us in the 21st advance to those of us in the 21st century century century there's also an element here of throwing there's also an element here of throwing there's also an element here of throwing one group of human beings under a bus in one group of human beings under a bus in one group of human beings under a bus in order to improve the humanitarian order to improve the humanitarian order to improve the humanitarian circumstances of another group of people circumstances of another group of people circumstances of another group of people i read something recently and i don't i read something recently and i don't i read something recently and i don't know if it was fernando cervantes's book know if it was fernando cervantes's book know if it was fernando cervantes's book um on conquistador as a new book he has um on conquistador as a new book he has um on conquistador as a new book he has out but it was talking about the extra out but it was talking about the extra out but it was talking about the extra responsibility that the portuguese and responsibility that the portuguese and responsibility that the portuguese and the spanish felt in this area the spanish felt in this area the spanish felt in this area because they were the ones who had to

because they were the ones who had to because they were the ones who had to write the original laws as compared to write the original laws as compared to write the original laws as compared to something like in africa where there was something like in africa where there was something like in africa where there was already an ongoing slave trade and they already an ongoing slave trade and they already an ongoing slave trade and they were just essentially customers so were just essentially customers so were just essentially customers so compared to a drug situation it's one compared to a drug situation it's one compared to a drug situation it's one thing to be buying uh drugs from the thing to be buying uh drugs from the thing to be buying uh drugs from the manufacturer or from a middle person manufacturer or from a middle person manufacturer or from a middle person it's another thing to be setting up your it's another thing to be setting up your it's another thing to be setting up your own meth labs and so some of this own meth labs and so some of this own meth labs and so some of this appears to be discussions over a appears to be discussions over a appears to be discussions over a different level of culpability here and different level of culpability here and different level of culpability here and a lack of laws on how you run things a lack of laws on how you run things a lack of laws on how you run things right it's not up to the spanish or the right it's not up to the spanish or the right it's not up to the spanish or the portuguese how the african rulers in portuguese how the african rulers in portuguese how the african rulers in africa handle the beginnings of the africa handle the beginnings of the africa handle the beginnings of the slave trade but here at ground zero in slave trade but here at ground zero in slave trade but here at ground zero in the caribbean it is you have to organize the caribbean it is you have to organize the caribbean it is you have to organize it from the get-go so things are a it from the get-go so things are a it from the get-go so things are a little bit different little bit different little bit different and you can if you look for them find and you can if you look for them find and you can if you look for them find clear evidence of trying to somehow be clear evidence of trying to somehow be clear evidence of trying to somehow be something like humanitarian something like humanitarian something like humanitarian a lot of the laws strike us as nibbling a lot of the laws strike us as nibbling a lot of the laws strike us as nibbling around the edges and get frustrating around the edges and get frustrating around the edges and get frustrating and a lot of times these laws that look and a lot of times these laws that look and a lot of times these laws that look like they're done for the welfare of the like they're done for the welfare of the like they're done for the welfare of the natives are in fact a sound business natives are in fact a sound business natives are in fact a sound business decision sometimes those two things decision sometimes those two things decision sometimes those two things dovetail for example keeping the natives dovetail for example keeping the natives dovetail for example keeping the natives healthy works in favor um of both the healthy works in favor um of both the healthy works in favor um of both the dominican friars who are advocating for dominican friars who are advocating for dominican friars who are advocating for their welfare their welfare their welfare and the business people who would like and the business people who would like and the business people who would like to see their product show up to market to see their product show up to market to see their product show up to market in good shape commanding the highest in good shape commanding the highest in good shape commanding the highest available price so when in 1513 the available price so when in 1513 the available price so when in 1513 the portuguese pass a rule saying uh that portuguese pass a rule saying uh that portuguese pass a rule saying uh that you can't have more than a certain you can't have more than a certain you can't have more than a certain number of slaves on a slave ship that is number of slaves on a slave ship that is number of slaves on a slave ship that is both a humanitarian benefit because if

both a humanitarian benefit because if both a humanitarian benefit because if you're on the slave ship you'll be glad you're on the slave ship you'll be glad you're on the slave ship you'll be glad you're not as packed tightly to your you're not as packed tightly to your you're not as packed tightly to your neighbor as you otherwise might be neighbor as you otherwise might be neighbor as you otherwise might be but it's a good business practice too i but it's a good business practice too i but it's a good business practice too i mean if we were talking about tomatoes mean if we were talking about tomatoes mean if we were talking about tomatoes here you'd rather have them show up to here you'd rather have them show up to here you'd rather have them show up to market unbruised and in the best shape market unbruised and in the best shape market unbruised and in the best shape right right right so sometimes what might appear to be so sometimes what might appear to be so sometimes what might appear to be humanitarian in nature might just be a humanitarian in nature might just be a humanitarian in nature might just be a money question too and it's not always money question too and it's not always money question too and it's not always easy to disentangle those things now there is a huge move made by the now there is a huge move made by the rulers in spain rulers in spain rulers in spain uh when they eliminate slavery in the uh when they eliminate slavery in the uh when they eliminate slavery in the new world make a rule no slavery so the new world make a rule no slavery so the new world make a rule no slavery so the people on the ground just come up with people on the ground just come up with people on the ground just come up with ways around it including the fact that ways around it including the fact that ways around it including the fact that there's exceptions to the rule i think there's exceptions to the rule i think there's exceptions to the rule i think it was queen isabella that said it was queen isabella that said it was queen isabella that said something like okay no slaves unless something like okay no slaves unless something like okay no slaves unless they're cannibals and so all of a sudden they're cannibals and so all of a sudden they're cannibals and so all of a sudden all these slaves that are working on all these slaves that are working on all these slaves that are working on these plantations in the caribbean just these plantations in the caribbean just these plantations in the caribbean just happen to be cannibals see how that happen to be cannibals see how that happen to be cannibals see how that works but it's affecting the labor pool works but it's affecting the labor pool works but it's affecting the labor pool nonetheless nonetheless nonetheless and people who are not humanitarians and people who are not humanitarians and people who are not humanitarians people that are worried only about the people that are worried only about the people that are worried only about the bottom line right the figures the bottom line right the figures the bottom line right the figures the profits uh the accounting profits uh the accounting profits uh the accounting those people notice right away too those people notice right away too those people notice right away too that we better be talking about that we better be talking about that we better be talking about replacement workers and those replacement workers and those replacement workers and those replacement workers are probably going replacement workers are probably going replacement workers are probably going to have to come from africa in his book to have to come from africa in his book to have to come from africa in his book the slave trade which is um heavily the slave trade which is um heavily the slave trade which is um heavily geared toward the economics of it all geared toward the economics of it all geared toward the economics of it all hugh thomas writes quote hugh thomas writes quote hugh thomas writes quote a philip to the african slave trade was a philip to the african slave trade was a philip to the african slave trade was naturally given by the trend towards the

naturally given by the trend towards the naturally given by the trend towards the outlawing of indian slavery in the outlawing of indian slavery in the outlawing of indian slavery in the americas as a result of the agitation of americas as a result of the agitation of americas as a result of the agitation of bartolome de las casas and other bartolome de las casas and other bartolome de las casas and other dominicans an indication of the mood in dominicans an indication of the mood in dominicans an indication of the mood in 1544 1544 1544 is shown by a letter of cristobal de is shown by a letter of cristobal de is shown by a letter of cristobal de benevente public prosecutor of the benevente public prosecutor of the benevente public prosecutor of the supreme court in mexico to the king now supreme court in mexico to the king now supreme court in mexico to the king now quoting the letter to the king quote quoting the letter to the king quote quoting the letter to the king quote every day the gold mines are giving less every day the gold mines are giving less every day the gold mines are giving less profit because of the lack of indian profit because of the lack of indian profit because of the lack of indian slaves in the end if your majesty slaves in the end if your majesty slaves in the end if your majesty abolishes local slavery wrote benevente abolishes local slavery wrote benevente abolishes local slavery wrote benevente there will be no alternative to allowing there will be no alternative to allowing there will be no alternative to allowing blacks into the land at least in the blacks into the land at least in the blacks into the land at least in the mines mines mines end quote end quote end quote now that's from mexico where now that's from mexico where now that's from mexico where there was a ton of movable wealth when there was a ton of movable wealth when there was a ton of movable wealth when the spanish conquered that area but once the spanish conquered that area but once the spanish conquered that area but once you take away all the stuff that's there you take away all the stuff that's there you take away all the stuff that's there i mean the gold that's sitting out in i mean the gold that's sitting out in i mean the gold that's sitting out in buildings and decorations i mean the buildings and decorations i mean the buildings and decorations i mean the movable wealth then it's all about okay movable wealth then it's all about okay movable wealth then it's all about okay how do we get the you know the wealth how do we get the you know the wealth how do we get the you know the wealth out of the land how do we turn the green out of the land how do we turn the green out of the land how do we turn the green bananas into yellow bananas and if bananas into yellow bananas and if bananas into yellow bananas and if there's not going to be natives there's not going to be natives there's not going to be natives somebody's got to do the work and as we somebody's got to do the work and as we somebody's got to do the work and as we had said it was only a generation before had said it was only a generation before had said it was only a generation before that the europeans have tapped into this that the europeans have tapped into this that the europeans have tapped into this african slave trade african slave trade african slave trade and the africans are an alternative for and the africans are an alternative for and the africans are an alternative for any number of reasons the first one and any number of reasons the first one and any number of reasons the first one and the most obvious is they're there right the most obvious is they're there right the most obvious is they're there right there's a there's a there's a huge demand explosion during this period huge demand explosion during this period huge demand explosion during this period and there's labor there and there's labor there and there's labor there so that might be the number one reason so that might be the number one reason so that might be the number one reason but there's a bunch of other reasons and but there's a bunch of other reasons and but there's a bunch of other reasons and it contributes to some very it contributes to some very it contributes to some very uncomfortable

uncomfortable uncomfortable realities including once again treating realities including once again treating realities including once again treating human beings as though they're non-human human beings as though they're non-human human beings as though they're non-human and having an exchange rate that reminds and having an exchange rate that reminds and having an exchange rate that reminds one of a currency exchange rate right one of a currency exchange rate right one of a currency exchange rate right how many dollars to the pound how many how many dollars to the pound how many how many dollars to the pound how many deutsche marks to the frank how many yen deutsche marks to the frank how many yen deutsche marks to the frank how many yen to the ruble how many indian slaves to to the ruble how many indian slaves to to the ruble how many indian slaves to the african slave the african slave the african slave this is like a land mine and i feel like this is like a land mine and i feel like this is like a land mine and i feel like we're going to encounter these all we're going to encounter these all we're going to encounter these all throughout this discussion and so i throughout this discussion and so i throughout this discussion and so i thought of how we should approach these thought of how we should approach these thought of how we should approach these cultural landmines these issues that can cultural landmines these issues that can cultural landmines these issues that can explode in our faces because they're a explode in our faces because they're a explode in our faces because they're a combination of um offensive we're combination of um offensive we're combination of um offensive we're dealing with people with a completely dealing with people with a completely dealing with people with a completely different mindset there's a bunch of different mindset there's a bunch of different mindset there's a bunch of things that go into this and i thought things that go into this and i thought things that go into this and i thought we're going to deal with it together we're going to deal with it together we're going to deal with it together we're going to go up to this land mine we're going to go up to this land mine we're going to go up to this land mine we're going to look at it we're going to we're going to look at it we're going to we're going to look at it we're going to look at it from all sides we're going to look at it from all sides we're going to look at it from all sides we're going to unravel and try to untangle what's going unravel and try to untangle what's going unravel and try to untangle what's going on here how do we untangle something on here how do we untangle something on here how do we untangle something like this like this like this uh famed historian of slavery david uh famed historian of slavery david uh famed historian of slavery david breon davis in inhuman bondage has this breon davis in inhuman bondage has this breon davis in inhuman bondage has this line and what this essentially is line and what this essentially is line and what this essentially is is something that historians can see is something that historians can see is something that historians can see written down this isn't anecdotal written down this isn't anecdotal written down this isn't anecdotal evidence this is the exchange rate the evidence this is the exchange rate the evidence this is the exchange rate the human exchange rate from one type of human exchange rate from one type of human exchange rate from one type of human with one color skin and from one human with one color skin and from one human with one color skin and from one culture to another type of human with culture to another type of human with culture to another type of human with another color skin from another culture another color skin from another culture another color skin from another culture davis writes quote davis writes quote davis writes quote throughout the new world colonists throughout the new world colonists throughout the new world colonists agreed that the labor of one black was agreed that the labor of one black was agreed that the labor of one black was worth that of several indians end quote worth that of several indians end quote worth that of several indians end quote now when davis says colonists in this now when davis says colonists in this now when davis says colonists in this case he means early first contact

case he means early first contact case he means early first contact colonists the spanish in the caribbean colonists the spanish in the caribbean colonists the spanish in the caribbean the portuguese in brazil the portuguese in brazil the portuguese in brazil um and the going rate is um and the going rate is um and the going rate is multiple indians for every african multiple indians for every african multiple indians for every african now in an earlier era now in an earlier era now in an earlier era people like the greeks and aristotle and people like the greeks and aristotle and people like the greeks and aristotle and whatnot might consider that a sign right whatnot might consider that a sign right whatnot might consider that a sign right there that you should be a slave there that you should be a slave there that you should be a slave obviously they're good at it they make obviously they're good at it they make obviously they're good at it they make good slaves that's a sign that they're good slaves that's a sign that they're good slaves that's a sign that they're they're in that class of people born to they're in that class of people born to they're in that class of people born to be slaves be slaves be slaves and if you go to like the antebellum and if you go to like the antebellum and if you go to like the antebellum south in maybe the 1820s 1830s 1840s south in maybe the 1820s 1830s 1840s south in maybe the 1820s 1830s 1840s they'll make it a totally racial they'll make it a totally racial they'll make it a totally racial question right well that's just how question right well that's just how question right well that's just how that's the ethnicity that's the genes that's the ethnicity that's the genes that's the ethnicity that's the genes and you can see it in the people and and you can see it in the people and and you can see it in the people and that's they're just born that way the concept of race as we understand it the concept of race as we understand it today develops during this era and if today develops during this era and if today develops during this era and if it's valuable to learn about this era if it's valuable to learn about this era if it's valuable to learn about this era if for no other reason than that for no other reason than that for no other reason than that considering the importance of the considering the importance of the considering the importance of the concept of race in our modern world concept of race in our modern world concept of race in our modern world before this time period it wasn't like before this time period it wasn't like before this time period it wasn't like people were all kumbaya and that they people were all kumbaya and that they people were all kumbaya and that they didn't notice you know the difference didn't notice you know the difference didn't notice you know the difference between us and them the them group was between us and them the them group was between us and them the them group was just a lot bigger and your skin color just a lot bigger and your skin color just a lot bigger and your skin color was only one of many things that played was only one of many things that played was only one of many things that played into it uh for an ancient greek someone into it uh for an ancient greek someone into it uh for an ancient greek someone who was black from africa they would who was black from africa they would who was black from africa they would call them ethiopians probably that was call them ethiopians probably that was call them ethiopians probably that was an uh in the ancient world the greeks an uh in the ancient world the greeks an uh in the ancient world the greeks would maybe thought of them as would maybe thought of them as would maybe thought of them as ethiopians sure they might have had some ethiopians sure they might have had some ethiopians sure they might have had some issues with them but just like they had issues with them but just like they had issues with them but just like they had issues with the scythians and the issues with the scythians and the issues with the scythians and the thracians and the epirates and the the thracians and the epirates and the the thracians and the epirates and the the persians i mean this difference in color persians i mean this difference in color persians i mean this difference in color that separates people of every that separates people of every that separates people of every nationality into groups of people that

nationality into groups of people that nationality into groups of people that are only are only are only designated by their skin tone that comes designated by their skin tone that comes designated by their skin tone that comes from this era from this era from this era modern historians have done a wonderful modern historians have done a wonderful modern historians have done a wonderful job though if we can job though if we can job though if we can deactivate this landmine in front of us deactivate this landmine in front of us deactivate this landmine in front of us explaining why explaining why explaining why you might pay more if you were a slave you might pay more if you were a slave you might pay more if you were a slave owner or might have to pay more for an owner or might have to pay more for an owner or might have to pay more for an african a sub-saharan african slave than african a sub-saharan african slave than african a sub-saharan african slave than a native american slave and it has to do a native american slave and it has to do a native american slave and it has to do with completely logical and with completely logical and with completely logical and understandable reasons that we would understandable reasons that we would understandable reasons that we would understand today in the free labor understand today in the free labor understand today in the free labor market simply based on the value simply based on the value to the employer that's what we'd say in to the employer that's what we'd say in to the employer that's what we'd say in the free labor market simply based on the free labor market simply based on the free labor market simply based on the value to the slaveholder what we'd the value to the slaveholder what we'd the value to the slaveholder what we'd say in the unfree market i mean consider say in the unfree market i mean consider say in the unfree market i mean consider this for example besides the fact that the labor is there besides the fact that the labor is there which is huge africans come from the old world africans come from the old world which means that a lot of the things which means that a lot of the things which means that a lot of the things that people take for granted amongst that people take for granted amongst that people take for granted amongst people of the old world includes the people of the old world includes the people of the old world includes the africans i mean they understand things africans i mean they understand things africans i mean they understand things that just come with the territory that that just come with the territory that that just come with the territory that everyone would be expected to know and everyone would be expected to know and everyone would be expected to know and if you didn't know them it would impede if you didn't know them it would impede if you didn't know them it would impede your ability to be a functional worker your ability to be a functional worker your ability to be a functional worker or slave i mean how about horses or slave i mean how about horses or slave i mean how about horses you go to the new world and remember you go to the new world and remember you go to the new world and remember they don't know about horses they don't they don't know about horses they don't they don't know about horses they don't know about cattle know about cattle know about cattle these are both things that are a very these are both things that are a very these are both things that are a very big deal i mean horses are cars and big deal i mean horses are cars and big deal i mean horses are cars and trucks and and planes and railroads all trucks and and planes and railroads all trucks and and planes and railroads all rolled into one in this period if you

rolled into one in this period if you rolled into one in this period if you had a worker or a slave who couldn't had a worker or a slave who couldn't had a worker or a slave who couldn't ride a horse couldn't care for a horse ride a horse couldn't care for a horse ride a horse couldn't care for a horse was scared of horses was scared of horses was scared of horses i mean that would make them a lot less i mean that would make them a lot less i mean that would make them a lot less valuable right there than someone from valuable right there than someone from valuable right there than someone from the old world and there were several uh the old world and there were several uh the old world and there were several uh african tribes sub-saharan african african tribes sub-saharan african african tribes sub-saharan african tribes that that were famous for dealing tribes that that were famous for dealing tribes that that were famous for dealing with horses with horses with horses well right there you'd pay more for well right there you'd pay more for well right there you'd pay more for someone who could deal with horses in someone who could deal with horses in someone who could deal with horses in the free market if you're running a the free market if you're running a the free market if you're running a ranch then someone who can't what about ranch then someone who can't what about ranch then someone who can't what about agriculture large-scale agribusiness agriculture large-scale agribusiness agriculture large-scale agribusiness in the new world they of course planted in the new world they of course planted in the new world they of course planted things and did farming but there was a things and did farming but there was a things and did farming but there was a lot of hunting and gathering going on it lot of hunting and gathering going on it lot of hunting and gathering going on it was a much it was a much less rigorous was a much it was a much less rigorous was a much it was a much less rigorous agribusiness kind of style and the agribusiness kind of style and the agribusiness kind of style and the people there didn't know what they were people there didn't know what they were people there didn't know what they were doing when you started to put them into doing when you started to put them into doing when you started to put them into giant teams of of workers under giant teams of of workers under giant teams of of workers under overseers i mean overseers i mean overseers i mean but in africa they had large-scale but in africa they had large-scale but in africa they had large-scale agribusiness and they grew all kinds of agribusiness and they grew all kinds of agribusiness and they grew all kinds of stuff in fact they grew things in africa stuff in fact they grew things in africa stuff in fact they grew things in africa that the europeans wanted to grow in the that the europeans wanted to grow in the that the europeans wanted to grow in the new world but didn't know how to grow new world but didn't know how to grow new world but didn't know how to grow very well in the new world so the very well in the new world so the very well in the new world so the africans showed them how africans showed them how africans showed them how rice was a perfect example so uh once rice was a perfect example so uh once rice was a perfect example so uh once again if you're talking about free labor again if you're talking about free labor again if you're talking about free labor here and you're trying to hire someone here and you're trying to hire someone here and you're trying to hire someone for your rice growing business do you for your rice growing business do you for your rice growing business do you hire someone who doesn't know how to hire someone who doesn't know how to hire someone who doesn't know how to grow rice has never worked in grow rice has never worked in grow rice has never worked in agribusiness or do you hire someone agribusiness or do you hire someone agribusiness or do you hire someone who's worked on many farms knows how to who's worked on many farms knows how to who's worked on many farms knows how to grow rice and knows how to grow rice so grow rice and knows how to grow rice so grow rice and knows how to grow rice so well they're going to show you how to well they're going to show you how to well they're going to show you how to grow it hmm grow it hmm grow it hmm all of a sudden it's not too hard to see all of a sudden it's not too hard to see all of a sudden it's not too hard to see why one african slave might be worth why one african slave might be worth why one african slave might be worth more than multiple indian slaves

more than multiple indian slaves more than multiple indian slaves there was another reason that was there was another reason that was there was another reason that was brought up to me that i hadn't thought brought up to me that i hadn't thought brought up to me that i hadn't thought about that was very interesting and i about that was very interesting and i about that was very interesting and i forgot i apologize i should have written forgot i apologize i should have written forgot i apologize i should have written down where i'd seen it but someone had down where i'd seen it but someone had down where i'd seen it but someone had made the point that when you're talking made the point that when you're talking made the point that when you're talking about original slaves we're not talking about original slaves we're not talking about original slaves we're not talking about second generation third generation about second generation third generation about second generation third generation you're talking about people who are you're talking about people who are you're talking about people who are captured in africa captured in africa captured in africa and um my thanks to brenda e and um my thanks to brenda e and um my thanks to brenda e stevenson the historian who wrote what stevenson the historian who wrote what stevenson the historian who wrote what is slavery where she reminds us is slavery where she reminds us is slavery where she reminds us that the trauma that is slavery starts that the trauma that is slavery starts that the trauma that is slavery starts much earlier in the process than we much earlier in the process than we much earlier in the process than we think it does the actual capture can be think it does the actual capture can be think it does the actual capture can be extremely traumatic and the time between extremely traumatic and the time between extremely traumatic and the time between capture and making it to the coast to capture and making it to the coast to capture and making it to the coast to get on the slave ship is often get on the slave ship is often get on the slave ship is often well more severe and traumatic than what well more severe and traumatic than what well more severe and traumatic than what most of us ever deal with in our lives most of us ever deal with in our lives most of us ever deal with in our lives and that's before they even get on the and that's before they even get on the and that's before they even get on the slave ship right which as we know is slave ship right which as we know is slave ship right which as we know is awful in its own right but the people awful in its own right but the people awful in its own right but the people that are being captured in africa are that are being captured in africa are that are being captured in africa are often being captured in wars and the often being captured in wars and the often being captured in wars and the people you are getting are often people you are getting are often people you are getting are often warriors these are soldiers warriors these are soldiers warriors these are soldiers and with that comes all kinds of things and with that comes all kinds of things and with that comes all kinds of things and as i was making a list of these and as i was making a list of these and as i was making a list of these things and as i was reading historians things and as i was reading historians things and as i was reading historians talking about them you couldn't help but talking about them you couldn't help but talking about them you couldn't help but notice there's a lot of crossover in notice there's a lot of crossover in notice there's a lot of crossover in what would make a valuable soldier to a what would make a valuable soldier to a what would make a valuable soldier to a commander and would what would make a commander and would what would make a commander and would what would make a valuable slave to a slave owner or a valuable slave to a slave owner or a valuable slave to a slave owner or a laborer to a free laborer to a free laborer to a free you know employer you know employer you know employer i mean take for example i mean take for example i mean take for example physical fitness physical fitness physical fitness these are people that have taken care of these are people that have taken care of these are people that have taken care of their bodies they've trained they've their bodies they've trained they've their bodies they've trained they've worked out they're in in good shape worked out they're in in good shape worked out they're in in good shape they're strong right they've probably

they're strong right they've probably they're strong right they've probably probably done calisthenics and exercises probably done calisthenics and exercises probably done calisthenics and exercises and all kinds of things that puts them and all kinds of things that puts them and all kinds of things that puts them in good shape to begin with in good shape to begin with in good shape to begin with then you talk about things like then you talk about things like then you talk about things like discipline and the ability to you know discipline and the ability to you know discipline and the ability to you know follow commands working groups follow commands working groups follow commands working groups efficiently uh command others like an efficiently uh command others like an efficiently uh command others like an officer officer officer and the ability to be tough and and the ability to be tough and and the ability to be tough and resilient i mean these are all qualities resilient i mean these are all qualities resilient i mean these are all qualities that work in soldiering and in a labor that work in soldiering and in a labor that work in soldiering and in a labor force free or slave and finally and finally the africans from sub-saharan africa the africans from sub-saharan africa the africans from sub-saharan africa have a superpower and there's no other have a superpower and there's no other have a superpower and there's no other way to put it way to put it way to put it a superpower that has served them well a superpower that has served them well a superpower that has served them well for millennia for millennia for millennia and now in a terrible nasty ironic twist and now in a terrible nasty ironic twist and now in a terrible nasty ironic twist makes them makes them makes them a better a better a better laborer in the new world also laborer in the new world also laborer in the new world also and i've always thought of it as sort of and i've always thought of it as sort of and i've always thought of it as sort of an invisible pathogenic an invisible pathogenic an invisible pathogenic force field over their entire force field over their entire force field over their entire region of africa region of africa region of africa and the diseases that this force field and the diseases that this force field and the diseases that this force field contains within it kills outsiders contains within it kills outsiders contains within it kills outsiders reliably i mean it keeps the riffraff reliably i mean it keeps the riffraff reliably i mean it keeps the riffraff out of central and southern africa if out of central and southern africa if out of central and southern africa if you're looking at it from a native you're looking at it from a native you're looking at it from a native who's had to live with these diseases who's had to live with these diseases who's had to live with these diseases from time immemorial from time immemorial from time immemorial now that doesn't mean now that doesn't mean now that doesn't mean central africans for example don't get central africans for example don't get central africans for example don't get malaria they do malaria they do malaria they do they just don't suffer as badly due to they just don't suffer as badly due to they just don't suffer as badly due to the you know inherited long-term

the you know inherited long-term the you know inherited long-term resistance that they've developed right resistance that they've developed right resistance that they've developed right this is standard medical stuff as we all this is standard medical stuff as we all this is standard medical stuff as we all know know know but it means that the natives are less but it means that the natives are less but it means that the natives are less affected by it than outsiders go look at affected by it than outsiders go look at affected by it than outsiders go look at your classic history of the pith helmet your classic history of the pith helmet your classic history of the pith helmet wearing white explorers going into wearing white explorers going into wearing white explorers going into deepest darkest africa and how lethal deepest darkest africa and how lethal deepest darkest africa and how lethal that is for them that is for them that is for them during this time period the portuguese during this time period the portuguese during this time period the portuguese are going to start setting up are going to start setting up are going to start setting up forts slash trading posts slash holding forts slash trading posts slash holding forts slash trading posts slash holding areas for slaves all up and down the areas for slaves all up and down the areas for slaves all up and down the african coast right off the right off african coast right off the right off african coast right off the right off the mainland and the people that are the mainland and the people that are the mainland and the people that are stationed there are going to die in stationed there are going to die in stationed there are going to die in droves also droves also droves also i actually remember an ongoing i actually remember an ongoing i actually remember an ongoing discussion back in college discussion back in college discussion back in college uh with the other history majors the uh with the other history majors the uh with the other history majors the history geekerati history geekerati history geekerati over whether or not alexander the great over whether or not alexander the great over whether or not alexander the great could have conquered central and could have conquered central and could have conquered central and southern africa southern africa southern africa i was on the side of the people who said i was on the side of the people who said i was on the side of the people who said that he could not that he could not that he could not because his whole army because his whole army because his whole army would have died from the disease was my would have died from the disease was my would have died from the disease was my argument argument argument forget the sahara i'm enough of an forget the sahara i'm enough of an forget the sahara i'm enough of an alexander fan to think he could have alexander fan to think he could have alexander fan to think he could have handled the logistical nightmare that handled the logistical nightmare that handled the logistical nightmare that that would have been but there is no that would have been but there is no that would have been but there is no logistical defense against you know logistical defense against you know logistical defense against you know malaria malaria malaria or or or you know i mean i mean the truth of the you know i mean i mean the truth of the you know i mean i mean the truth of the matter is if alexander's army and matter is if alexander's army and matter is if alexander's army and alexander had died from disease in alexander had died from disease in alexander had died from disease in africa alexander probably would have africa alexander probably would have africa alexander probably would have ended up dying then from the same thing ended up dying then from the same thing ended up dying then from the same thing that actually killed him in babylon that actually killed him in babylon that actually killed him in babylon which nobody knows what that is some which nobody knows what that is some which nobody knows what that is some people you know think it's poisonous and people you know think it's poisonous and people you know think it's poisonous and nefarious but if it wasn't it was

nefarious but if it wasn't it was nefarious but if it wasn't it was probably one of those diseases like probably one of those diseases like probably one of those diseases like malaria malaria malaria that would have destroyed a macedonian that would have destroyed a macedonian that would have destroyed a macedonian macedonian army had it ever made it macedonian army had it ever made it macedonian army had it ever made it to to to sub-saharan africa but the point being sub-saharan africa but the point being sub-saharan africa but the point being that when the africans are taken to the that when the africans are taken to the that when the africans are taken to the americas to the new world americas to the new world americas to the new world they don't die anywhere near as quickly they don't die anywhere near as quickly they don't die anywhere near as quickly as the native american the indigenous as the native american the indigenous as the native american the indigenous peoples do peoples do peoples do and they don't even die as quickly as and they don't even die as quickly as and they don't even die as quickly as the europeans do the europeans do the europeans do this is this is this is a a a super valuable commodity obviously if super valuable commodity obviously if super valuable commodity obviously if you own people you own people you own people because you'd rather have one that lived because you'd rather have one that lived because you'd rather have one that lived longer than one or two or three that longer than one or two or three that longer than one or two or three that didn't now is this going to work in the favor now is this going to work in the favor of the african slave heck no it's going of the african slave heck no it's going of the african slave heck no it's going to be to be to be something that actually prolonged the something that actually prolonged the something that actually prolonged the agony of slavery agony of slavery agony of slavery meant they got to live longer before meant they got to live longer before meant they got to live longer before they expired on the job they expired on the job they expired on the job in some of these places they were able in some of these places they were able in some of these places they were able to rationalize not even taking to rationalize not even taking to rationalize not even taking you know the investment money that would you know the investment money that would you know the investment money that would be used to make life a little easier on be used to make life a little easier on be used to make life a little easier on their slaves because since they were their slaves because since they were their slaves because since they were going to die anyway the investment going to die anyway the investment going to die anyway the investment wasn't even worth it just work them to wasn't even worth it just work them to wasn't even worth it just work them to death and they did so that's the very long-winded and so that's the very long-winded and multi-faceted multi-faceted multi-faceted examination of how the heck examination of how the heck examination of how the heck africans got stuck into this africans got stuck into this africans got stuck into this logistical supply line that was logistical supply line that was logistical supply line that was developing now between these two worlds developing now between these two worlds developing now between these two worlds that that that you know up until recently had not been you know up until recently had not been you know up until recently had not been connected or even known of each other's connected or even known of each other's connected or even known of each other's existences

now just because you have african labor now just because you have african labor in the americas starting doesn't mean in the americas starting doesn't mean in the americas starting doesn't mean native american slavery died out in fact native american slavery died out in fact native american slavery died out in fact there's going to be quite a bit of it there's going to be quite a bit of it there's going to be quite a bit of it they may not work well in the mines or they may not work well in the mines or they may not work well in the mines or the agri-business area but there's the agri-business area but there's the agri-business area but there's plenty plenty plenty uh if you're a an enslaver uh if you're a an enslaver uh if you're a an enslaver i read that word in one of the new i read that word in one of the new i read that word in one of the new histories in in it's being used in place histories in in it's being used in place histories in in it's being used in place of slave owner in slaver of slave owner in slaver of slave owner in slaver um it's a lot harsher but probably um it's a lot harsher but probably um it's a lot harsher but probably should be right i mean so so if you're should be right i mean so so if you're should be right i mean so so if you're an enslaver there's plenty of jobs on an enslaver there's plenty of jobs on an enslaver there's plenty of jobs on your farm or in your household or in your farm or in your household or in your farm or in your household or in your kitchen or your kitchen or your kitchen or who knows i mean we forget the element who knows i mean we forget the element who knows i mean we forget the element that the sort of the the hidden between that the sort of the the hidden between that the sort of the the hidden between the lines element of sex slavery in the the lines element of sex slavery in the the lines element of sex slavery in the whole slavery question but it's enormous whole slavery question but it's enormous whole slavery question but it's enormous so lots of things that um so lots of things that um so lots of things that um one would find the native population one would find the native population one would find the native population valuable for even if they couldn't do valuable for even if they couldn't do valuable for even if they couldn't do the sort of jobs the sort of jobs the sort of jobs that they're bringing in old world that they're bringing in old world that they're bringing in old world people to do people to do people to do and i think it's worth for a second and i think it's worth for a second and i think it's worth for a second examining the numbers a bit in what examining the numbers a bit in what examining the numbers a bit in what we're talking about here time to zoom we're talking about here time to zoom we're talking about here time to zoom out now that we've laid the foundation out now that we've laid the foundation out now that we've laid the foundation for how it got this way to what it is for how it got this way to what it is for how it got this way to what it is and and how it develops and and how it develops and and how it develops historian brenda a stevenson from ucla historian brenda a stevenson from ucla historian brenda a stevenson from ucla um um um whom we quoted earlier in her book what whom we quoted earlier in her book what whom we quoted earlier in her book what is slavery goes over the numbers a is slavery goes over the numbers a is slavery goes over the numbers a little bit little bit little bit and these are all difficult to figure and these are all difficult to figure and these are all difficult to figure out occasionally because uh sometimes out occasionally because uh sometimes out occasionally because uh sometimes the records are great and sometimes the records are great and sometimes the records are great and sometimes they're not they're not they're not but she says that most of the historians but she says that most of the historians but she says that most of the historians dealing with this subject now agree dealing with this subject now agree dealing with this subject now agree that some 28 million africans were that some 28 million africans were that some 28 million africans were enslaved and sold between

enslaved and sold between enslaved and sold between the 15th and 19th century so that's the the 15th and 19th century so that's the the 15th and 19th century so that's the 1400s and the 1800s 1400s and the 1800s 1400s and the 1800s and she says quote and she says quote and she says quote approximately 12.5 million left for the approximately 12.5 million left for the approximately 12.5 million left for the americas in the caribbean americas in the caribbean americas in the caribbean about 16 million purportedly were traded about 16 million purportedly were traded about 16 million purportedly were traded not across the atlantic but rather to not across the atlantic but rather to not across the atlantic but rather to north africa on the coast of the indian north africa on the coast of the indian north africa on the coast of the indian ocean and throughout the middle east but ocean and throughout the middle east but ocean and throughout the middle east but the 11 million or so who arrived in the the 11 million or so who arrived in the the 11 million or so who arrived in the americas did not account for the americas did not account for the americas did not account for the millions some believe at least four millions some believe at least four millions some believe at least four million who died as part of the slave million who died as part of the slave million who died as part of the slave raiding warfare during the forced raiding warfare during the forced raiding warfare during the forced marches to the slave trading coasts or marches to the slave trading coasts or marches to the slave trading coasts or who perished in the middle passage the who perished in the middle passage the who perished in the middle passage the ocean trip from africa to america as a ocean trip from africa to america as a ocean trip from africa to america as a result of scurvy and other diseases result of scurvy and other diseases result of scurvy and other diseases dehydration starvation harsh treatment dehydration starvation harsh treatment dehydration starvation harsh treatment or suicide or suicide or suicide nor does it measure she writes the nor does it measure she writes the nor does it measure she writes the millions who lost their homes and millions who lost their homes and millions who lost their homes and families and who were physically families and who were physically families and who were physically displaced as a result of the trade end displaced as a result of the trade end displaced as a result of the trade end quote quote quote and you can trace the development of all and you can trace the development of all and you can trace the development of all of this of this of this so so so economically as i said this is what economically as i said this is what economically as i said this is what makes the whole period seem like it's makes the whole period seem like it's makes the whole period seem like it's beyond its sell by date beyond its sell by date beyond its sell by date the mind sort of you have to shake your the mind sort of you have to shake your the mind sort of you have to shake your head out of the lethargy when you just head out of the lethargy when you just head out of the lethargy when you just assume we're talking about free labor assume we're talking about free labor assume we're talking about free labor here but you're not here but you're not here but you're not i mean i mean i mean you can see how the slave numbers go you can see how the slave numbers go you can see how the slave numbers go uh into orbit in terms of a growth curve uh into orbit in terms of a growth curve uh into orbit in terms of a growth curve as soon as some of these early places in

as soon as some of these early places in as soon as some of these early places in the new world start churning out the the new world start churning out the the new world start churning out the first really popular yellow bananas first really popular yellow bananas first really popular yellow bananas right the green bananas turn into the right the green bananas turn into the right the green bananas turn into the yellow bananas and the yellow banana in yellow bananas and the yellow banana in yellow bananas and the yellow banana in this case is probably this case is probably this case is probably sugar sugar sugar it is hard to get your mind around what it is hard to get your mind around what it is hard to get your mind around what a big deal a big deal a big deal sugar could be sugar could be sugar could be not a big deal now i mean it's just in not a big deal now i mean it's just in not a big deal now i mean it's just in everything everything everything it's ubiquitous you don't even think it's ubiquitous you don't even think it's ubiquitous you don't even think about it it's not that expensive about it it's not that expensive about it it's not that expensive but what if it was but what if it was but what if it was what if they only made it in a few what if they only made it in a few what if they only made it in a few places and what if there was no good places and what if there was no good places and what if there was no good alternatives alternatives alternatives can you imagine the value of this what can you imagine the value of this what can you imagine the value of this what would you pay right people would go to would you pay right people would go to would you pay right people would go to war over the i mean war over the i mean war over the i mean it's fascinating to think about it's fascinating to think about it's fascinating to think about something that it's like thinking about something that it's like thinking about something that it's like thinking about pepper in terms of value maybe just it pepper in terms of value maybe just it pepper in terms of value maybe just it doesn't even compute you have to think doesn't even compute you have to think doesn't even compute you have to think of oil of oil of oil you have to think of something that's you have to think of something that's you have to think of something that's really big in our world now the point is really big in our world now the point is really big in our world now the point is is all of a sudden there's a sugar boom is all of a sudden there's a sugar boom is all of a sudden there's a sugar boom when um when um when um you know europe and other places all of you know europe and other places all of you know europe and other places all of a sudden develop this huge appetite for a sudden develop this huge appetite for a sudden develop this huge appetite for something they didn't have a huge something they didn't have a huge something they didn't have a huge appetite for before they have to have it appetite for before they have to have it appetite for before they have to have it and it doesn't grow in a lot of places and it doesn't grow in a lot of places and it doesn't grow in a lot of places even before columbus makes his trip to even before columbus makes his trip to even before columbus makes his trip to the americas the um the americas the um the americas the um the spanish and the portuguese have some the spanish and the portuguese have some the spanish and the portuguese have some islands from the earlier uh age of islands from the earlier uh age of islands from the earlier uh age of discovery stuff that you know leads step discovery stuff that you know leads step discovery stuff that you know leads step by step to columbus and the ones that by step to columbus and the ones that by step to columbus and the ones that are out sort of off the african coast or are out sort of off the african coast or are out sort of off the african coast or out into the atlantic a bit can grow out into the atlantic a bit can grow out into the atlantic a bit can grow sugar and so they instantly start sugar and so they instantly start sugar and so they instantly start turning those places into you know turning those places into you know turning those places into you know little growth centers

but they're going to pale in comparison but they're going to pale in comparison to what's going to happen in the to what's going to happen in the to what's going to happen in the caribbean and in brazil where these caribbean and in brazil where these caribbean and in brazil where these places turn into places turn into places turn into sugar factories sugar factories sugar factories run by run by run by human labor human labor human labor and churning out wealth of the sort that and churning out wealth of the sort that and churning out wealth of the sort that can keep whole countries afloat can keep whole countries afloat can keep whole countries afloat but the demand for labor is never ending but the demand for labor is never ending but the demand for labor is never ending whereas in the americas you will have a whereas in the americas you will have a whereas in the americas you will have a very unique very unique very unique situation in north america during the situation in north america during the situation in north america during the famous american slave period where famous american slave period where famous american slave period where slaves slaves slaves are able to keep their population levels are able to keep their population levels are able to keep their population levels up through marriage and up through marriage and up through marriage and birth rate that happens in very few birth rate that happens in very few birth rate that happens in very few other places normally this is a one-way other places normally this is a one-way other places normally this is a one-way trip and children are not part of the trip and children are not part of the trip and children are not part of the deal historian david breon davis put it this historian david breon davis put it this way way way and this is his by the way it's a it's a and this is his by the way it's a it's a and this is his by the way it's a it's a little bit of a long quote but it's his little bit of a long quote but it's his little bit of a long quote but it's his way of describing the green banana way of describing the green banana way of describing the green banana yellow banana thing yellow banana thing yellow banana thing the coming in and taking the movable the coming in and taking the movable the coming in and taking the movable wealth first and then figuring out okay wealth first and then figuring out okay wealth first and then figuring out okay what's the long-term wealth in this what's the long-term wealth in this what's the long-term wealth in this place and how do we get to it and he place and how do we get to it and he place and how do we get to it and he writes quote writes quote writes quote while europeans settled each new world while europeans settled each new world while europeans settled each new world colony in a special and often fortuitous colony in a special and often fortuitous colony in a special and often fortuitous way we can also see a more general way we can also see a more general way we can also see a more general pattern being repeated from hispaniola pattern being repeated from hispaniola pattern being repeated from hispaniola and brazil in the 16th century to and brazil in the 16th century to and brazil in the 16th century to virginia and carolina in the 17th first virginia and carolina in the 17th first virginia and carolina in the 17th first he writes we note a strongly human he writes we note a strongly human he writes we note a strongly human element of greed a desire for instant element of greed a desire for instant element of greed a desire for instant wealth from gold and silver whether wealth from gold and silver whether wealth from gold and silver whether stolen from indians seized from the

stolen from indians seized from the stolen from indians seized from the spaniards by dutch british or french spaniards by dutch british or french spaniards by dutch british or french pirate ships or gained from forcing pirate ships or gained from forcing pirate ships or gained from forcing indians to work in the mines for mineral indians to work in the mines for mineral indians to work in the mines for mineral wealth wealth wealth he continues though and here's the green he continues though and here's the green he continues though and here's the green bananas quote bananas quote bananas quote in a second and usually later in a second and usually later in a second and usually later alternative colonial leaders turn to alternative colonial leaders turn to alternative colonial leaders turn to cash crops such as tobacco and cash crops such as tobacco and cash crops such as tobacco and especially sugar produced by slaves especially sugar produced by slaves especially sugar produced by slaves imported from africa after initial imported from africa after initial imported from africa after initial experiments with indian labor for experiments with indian labor for experiments with indian labor for reasons we will later examine the reasons we will later examine the reasons we will later examine the african workers could never come close african workers could never come close african workers could never come close to reproducing their numbers except in to reproducing their numbers except in to reproducing their numbers except in the chesapeake in the 1720s and in south the chesapeake in the 1720s and in south the chesapeake in the 1720s and in south carolina a half century later hence he carolina a half century later hence he carolina a half century later hence he writes the need for a continuing and writes the need for a continuing and writes the need for a continuing and growing stream of labor from africa to growing stream of labor from africa to growing stream of labor from africa to make up for the slave mortality and to make up for the slave mortality and to make up for the slave mortality and to clear new land clear new land clear new land and found new colonies for cultivation and found new colonies for cultivation and found new colonies for cultivation much of the new world then came to much of the new world then came to much of the new world then came to resemble the death furnace of the resemble the death furnace of the resemble the death furnace of the ancient god moloch consuming african ancient god moloch consuming african ancient god moloch consuming african slaves so increasing numbers of slaves so increasing numbers of slaves so increasing numbers of europeans and later white americans europeans and later white americans europeans and later white americans could consume sugar coffee rice and could consume sugar coffee rice and could consume sugar coffee rice and tobacco tobacco tobacco end quote end quote end quote that might sound harsh to some people that might sound harsh to some people that might sound harsh to some people but one could make the case that but one could make the case that but one could make the case that that still applies today that still applies today that still applies today we just have we just have we just have you know slave labor or close to slave you know slave labor or close to slave you know slave labor or close to slave labor in some places producing supplies labor in some places producing supplies labor in some places producing supplies that that that not just americans anymore but everybody not just americans anymore but everybody not just americans anymore but everybody uses and consumes uses and consumes uses and consumes we're still addicted to bondage the

we're still addicted to bondage the we're still addicted to bondage the terms may be a little different though terms may be a little different though terms may be a little different though and uh and uh and uh the benefits more the benefits more the benefits more spread out and this is a good time now that we've and this is a good time now that we've sort of laid the foundation for how did sort of laid the foundation for how did sort of laid the foundation for how did this even come to be this even come to be this even come to be to take a more blitz edition oriented to take a more blitz edition oriented to take a more blitz edition oriented approach here approach here approach here um because as i said i'm not qualified um because as i said i'm not qualified um because as i said i'm not qualified to give you the history of slavery but to give you the history of slavery but to give you the history of slavery but we could sure talk about some of the we could sure talk about some of the we could sure talk about some of the really interesting aspects of it really interesting aspects of it really interesting aspects of it and the first one here is and the first one here is and the first one here is this this this lack of an ability and maybe it's just lack of an ability and maybe it's just lack of an ability and maybe it's just me and maybe i lack the imagination but me and maybe i lack the imagination but me and maybe i lack the imagination but i'm sharing with you the fact i'm having i'm sharing with you the fact i'm having i'm sharing with you the fact i'm having a hard time seeing a hard time seeing a hard time seeing really plausible counterfactuals in this really plausible counterfactuals in this really plausible counterfactuals in this situation you know other alternative situation you know other alternative situation you know other alternative things that might have taken place things that might have taken place things that might have taken place as opposed to this nightmarish outcome as opposed to this nightmarish outcome as opposed to this nightmarish outcome because there's counterfactuals that are because there's counterfactuals that are because there's counterfactuals that are really easy to imagine the classic one really easy to imagine the classic one really easy to imagine the classic one we always play with in the united states we always play with in the united states we always play with in the united states uh maybe they do in britain too is what uh maybe they do in britain too is what uh maybe they do in britain too is what if the uh british had won the if the uh british had won the if the uh british had won the revolutionary war the american revolutionary war the american revolutionary war the american revolutionary war because that could revolutionary war because that could revolutionary war because that could easily have happened it's not that hard easily have happened it's not that hard easily have happened it's not that hard to imagine that's literally a sort of a to imagine that's literally a sort of a to imagine that's literally a sort of a turn of fortune kind of thing whereas turn of fortune kind of thing whereas turn of fortune kind of thing whereas something like imagining a significantly something like imagining a significantly something like imagining a significantly different unfolding of the new world different unfolding of the new world different unfolding of the new world um um um you know first century or two i mean you know first century or two i mean you know first century or two i mean that that to me looks more like a that that to me looks more like a that that to me looks more like a mudslide mudslide mudslide like a force of nature sort of deal like a force of nature sort of deal like a force of nature sort of deal where where where the best intentions the best intentions the best intentions of the most humanitarian of people in

of the most humanitarian of people in of the most humanitarian of people in any of these societies would be drowned any of these societies would be drowned any of these societies would be drowned out by the sheer crush of out by the sheer crush of out by the sheer crush of momentum of the time i mean you know we momentum of the time i mean you know we momentum of the time i mean you know we didn't even talk about it but it's only didn't even talk about it but it's only didn't even talk about it but it's only a little in a couple years i think after a little in a couple years i think after a little in a couple years i think after columbus finds columbus finds columbus finds um the caribbean thinking he's found um the caribbean thinking he's found um the caribbean thinking he's found the the the you know asia as he would have called it you know asia as he would have called it you know asia as he would have called it uh when somebody actually goes the other uh when somebody actually goes the other uh when somebody actually goes the other way vasco da gama around africa into the way vasco da gama around africa into the way vasco da gama around africa into the indian ocean and does find asia in air indian ocean and does find asia in air indian ocean and does find asia in air quotes quotes quotes precipitating precipitating precipitating what i think is probably i mean you have what i think is probably i mean you have what i think is probably i mean you have to adjust for inflation and all that to adjust for inflation and all that to adjust for inflation and all that sort of financial nonsense but uh i sort of financial nonsense but uh i sort of financial nonsense but uh i think you can easily say precipitating think you can easily say precipitating think you can easily say precipitating the greatest the greatest the greatest financial boom in the history of financial boom in the history of financial boom in the history of humankind humankind humankind globalization 1.0 right all of a sudden globalization 1.0 right all of a sudden globalization 1.0 right all of a sudden the whole world is connected with trade the whole world is connected with trade the whole world is connected with trade routes with regular shipping uh it had i routes with regular shipping uh it had i routes with regular shipping uh it had i mean the money that could be made and mean the money that could be made and mean the money that could be made and you're already as we said transitioning you're already as we said transitioning you're already as we said transitioning from a period where things like uh your from a period where things like uh your from a period where things like uh your name and your birth and your aristocracy name and your birth and your aristocracy name and your birth and your aristocracy and your blue blood and all that stuff and your blue blood and all that stuff and your blue blood and all that stuff really mattered as to whether or not you really mattered as to whether or not you really mattered as to whether or not you could participate in a lot of different could participate in a lot of different could participate in a lot of different things and that was being blown open uh things and that was being blown open uh things and that was being blown open uh by all kinds of things you know by all kinds of things you know by all kinds of things you know professors will tie it into the plague professors will tie it into the plague professors will tie it into the plague and population i mean there's bazillions and population i mean there's bazillions and population i mean there's bazillions of ways to try to of ways to try to of ways to try to untangle the rope that represents the untangle the rope that represents the untangle the rope that represents the zeitgeist in this era zeitgeist in this era zeitgeist in this era but money's not a bad way but money's not a bad way but money's not a bad way to sort of frame it to sort of frame it to sort of frame it i think where you can judge i think where you can judge i think where you can judge humanity is how quickly you bounce back humanity is how quickly you bounce back humanity is how quickly you bounce back if this is like an inevitable mudslide if this is like an inevitable mudslide if this is like an inevitable mudslide that's going to bury this

that's going to bury this that's going to bury this a lot of people in this first contact a lot of people in this first contact a lot of people in this first contact sort of period how long does it take you sort of period how long does it take you sort of period how long does it take you to to to morally in a humanitarian sort of morally in a humanitarian sort of morally in a humanitarian sort of collective sense collective sense collective sense to dig your way out of the mudslide to dig your way out of the mudslide to dig your way out of the mudslide right how long how long do you rebound right how long how long do you rebound right how long how long do you rebound from this from this from this tragedy that's a creation of forces that tragedy that's a creation of forces that tragedy that's a creation of forces that no one had ever seen before no one had ever seen before no one had ever seen before infused with mentalities that infused with mentalities that infused with mentalities that are only very recently are only very recently are only very recently having having having the middle ages the middle ages the middle ages reflected back to them in their reflected back to them in their reflected back to them in their historical rearview mirror historical rearview mirror historical rearview mirror but these kingdoms and empires and but these kingdoms and empires and but these kingdoms and empires and states are all in direct competition states are all in direct competition states are all in direct competition with each other in places like europe with each other in places like europe with each other in places like europe and when the americas are discovered the and when the americas are discovered the and when the americas are discovered the entire competition entire competition entire competition just just just seeps over the atlantic ocean into the seeps over the atlantic ocean into the seeps over the atlantic ocean into the new world and if the spanish and the new world and if the spanish and the new world and if the spanish and the portuguese thought they were going to portuguese thought they were going to portuguese thought they were going to keep the new world all to themselves keep the new world all to themselves keep the new world all to themselves just because they got there first just because they got there first just because they got there first they're crazy they're crazy they're crazy uh history geeks like yours truly always uh history geeks like yours truly always uh history geeks like yours truly always enjoy talking about the treaty of enjoy talking about the treaty of enjoy talking about the treaty of todacius the one where the pope brokers todacius the one where the pope brokers todacius the one where the pope brokers this deal where the the portuguese and this deal where the the portuguese and this deal where the the portuguese and the spanish get to divide the the spanish get to divide the the spanish get to divide the undiscovered planet undiscovered planet undiscovered planet into between them into between them into between them thinking that they're going to actually thinking that they're going to actually thinking that they're going to actually make this deal stick with the rest of make this deal stick with the rest of make this deal stick with the rest of the countries of the world is nuts the countries of the world is nuts the countries of the world is nuts it does have an effect though i mean the it does have an effect though i mean the it does have an effect though i mean the reason the portuguese kind of have a reason the portuguese kind of have a reason the portuguese kind of have a stranglehold on the african atlantic stranglehold on the african atlantic stranglehold on the african atlantic trade stuff is because they're the ones trade stuff is because they're the ones trade stuff is because they're the ones who get according to that treaty control who get according to that treaty control who get according to that treaty control of of the west african coast where

of of the west african coast where of of the west african coast where they're building all those forts slash they're building all those forts slash they're building all those forts slash holding pens holding pens holding pens so it has an effect but uh the english so it has an effect but uh the english so it has an effect but uh the english who will become the british in the early who will become the british in the early who will become the british in the early 1700s right as part of this changing 1700s right as part of this changing 1700s right as part of this changing from kingdoms into states uh they're not from kingdoms into states uh they're not from kingdoms into states uh they're not going to pay any attention to this and going to pay any attention to this and going to pay any attention to this and once there's the religious schism you once there's the religious schism you once there's the religious schism you know between catholicism and know between catholicism and know between catholicism and protestantism you know the people that protestantism you know the people that protestantism you know the people that leave catholicism don't pay any leave catholicism don't pay any leave catholicism don't pay any attention to anything the pope says attention to anything the pope says attention to anything the pope says anyway so they don't care we're not anyway so they don't care we're not anyway so they don't care we're not staying out of the americas right staying out of the americas right staying out of the americas right all these other countries are going to all these other countries are going to all these other countries are going to crash the american private party crash the american private party crash the american private party they're just going to be a little behind they're just going to be a little behind they're just going to be a little behind places like spain the whole time i mean places like spain the whole time i mean places like spain the whole time i mean spain will be in like uh california and spain will be in like uh california and spain will be in like uh california and texas you know in the not too distant texas you know in the not too distant texas you know in the not too distant future remember it's going to take future remember it's going to take future remember it's going to take hundreds of years to explore all this hundreds of years to explore all this hundreds of years to explore all this new country and the other european new country and the other european new country and the other european powers will be about 50 75 100 years powers will be about 50 75 100 years powers will be about 50 75 100 years behind them every step of the way so the behind them every step of the way so the behind them every step of the way so the spanish and the portuguese get this head spanish and the portuguese get this head spanish and the portuguese get this head start and then when the other countries start and then when the other countries start and then when the other countries arrive they have all these ways to make arrive they have all these ways to make arrive they have all these ways to make up for the lost time though like up for the lost time though like up for the lost time though like stealing the spanish stuff through stealing the spanish stuff through stealing the spanish stuff through piracy this is the great age when all piracy this is the great age when all piracy this is the great age when all the pirates are around the pirates are around the pirates are around really the period from about 1492 in really the period from about 1492 in really the period from about 1492 in columbus stumbles on the americas and columbus stumbles on the americas and columbus stumbles on the americas and about 1800 is the period um about 1800 is the period um about 1800 is the period um in which you look at this area and you in which you look at this area and you in which you look at this area and you see see see the giant risk board new world version the giant risk board new world version the giant risk board new world version and all these islands change hands and and all these islands change hands and and all these islands change hands and warfare happens and other settlements warfare happens and other settlements warfare happens and other settlements and the the french get involved the and the the french get involved the and the the french get involved the british get involved the dutch get british get involved the dutch get british get involved the dutch get involved uh you even see the danish and involved uh you even see the danish and involved uh you even see the danish and the norwegians get involved the the the norwegians get involved the the the norwegians get involved the the price for entry right in order to play price for entry right in order to play price for entry right in order to play this new world colonization game you

this new world colonization game you this new world colonization game you have to have a significant fleet right have to have a significant fleet right have to have a significant fleet right you have to be a naval power the you have to be a naval power the you have to be a naval power the countries that get locked out of this countries that get locked out of this countries that get locked out of this giant you know gold rush right the giant you know gold rush right the giant you know gold rush right the globalization 1.0 globalization 1.0 globalization 1.0 gold rush fever time are places like gold rush fever time are places like gold rush fever time are places like central european landlocked countries central european landlocked countries central european landlocked countries now there is no germany at this time now there is no germany at this time now there is no germany at this time right germany is a bunch of different right germany is a bunch of different right germany is a bunch of different states it won't coalesce states it won't coalesce states it won't coalesce for several hundred years but what that for several hundred years but what that for several hundred years but what that means is there's no giant german state means is there's no giant german state means is there's no giant german state with a german fleet that can send the with a german fleet that can send the with a german fleet that can send the german fleet out there to participate in german fleet out there to participate in german fleet out there to participate in all this why does this even matter all this why does this even matter all this why does this even matter well because you know in the early 1900s well because you know in the early 1900s well because you know in the early 1900s one of the complaints that led to the one of the complaints that led to the one of the complaints that led to the first world war was this idea that there first world war was this idea that there first world war was this idea that there were countries that had gotten there and were countries that had gotten there and were countries that had gotten there and the phrase was place in the sun and then the phrase was place in the sun and then the phrase was place in the sun and then there were these other countries that there were these other countries that there were these other countries that were left out when all that was taking were left out when all that was taking were left out when all that was taking place right the game of musical chairs place right the game of musical chairs place right the game of musical chairs started before they were even a country started before they were even a country started before they were even a country well the period where the well the period where the well the period where the enemies of the kaisers germany in the enemies of the kaisers germany in the enemies of the kaisers germany in the first world war were getting their place first world war were getting their place first world war were getting their place in the sun is this period in the sun is this period in the sun is this period and after the spanish and the portuguese and after the spanish and the portuguese and after the spanish and the portuguese take some of these places from the take some of these places from the take some of these places from the indigenous peoples the people from the indigenous peoples the people from the indigenous peoples the people from the old world come over and start taking it old world come over and start taking it old world come over and start taking it from the spanish and the portuguese it's from the spanish and the portuguese it's from the spanish and the portuguese it's like the the cheetahs were the first like the the cheetahs were the first like the the cheetahs were the first arrivals and they started eating all the arrivals and they started eating all the arrivals and they started eating all the peaceful furry plovers in hispaniola and peaceful furry plovers in hispaniola and peaceful furry plovers in hispaniola and then after a significant period of time then after a significant period of time then after a significant period of time but not that long but not that long but not that long the lions from the old world arrive and the lions from the old world arrive and the lions from the old world arrive and start pushing the cheetahs you know start pushing the cheetahs you know start pushing the cheetahs you know deeper into the interior deeper into the interior deeper into the interior you'll see these islands change hands

you'll see these islands change hands you'll see these islands change hands between the spanish and the french and between the spanish and the french and between the spanish and the french and the french and the british and it's a the french and the british and it's a the french and the british and it's a giant game of musical chairs for a giant game of musical chairs for a giant game of musical chairs for a couple centuries couple centuries couple centuries you'll also see the beginnings of you'll also see the beginnings of you'll also see the beginnings of settlements into places where the settlements into places where the settlements into places where the spanish didn't even go spanish didn't even go spanish didn't even go the spanish will be in places like the spanish will be in places like the spanish will be in places like florida for example but they won't be in florida for example but they won't be in florida for example but they won't be in places like massachusetts places like massachusetts places like massachusetts or virginia or what's now part of canada or virginia or what's now part of canada or virginia or what's now part of canada but the french and the english will but the french and the english will but the french and the english will the dutch will too i mean they settle the dutch will too i mean they settle the dutch will too i mean they settle new york originally right new amsterdam new york originally right new amsterdam new york originally right new amsterdam and all these different peoples are and all these different peoples are and all these different peoples are going to bring the general way of doing going to bring the general way of doing going to bring the general way of doing things the institutions and the culture things the institutions and the culture things the institutions and the culture from you know the european old world from you know the european old world from you know the european old world but because of the subtle differences but because of the subtle differences but because of the subtle differences between each of them right the english between each of them right the english between each of them right the english from the french the french from the from the french the french from the from the french the french from the spanish uh spanish uh spanish uh the development in all these places will the development in all these places will the development in all these places will be a little bit different be a little bit different be a little bit different treatment of the slaves for example a treatment of the slaves for example a treatment of the slaves for example a little bit different they'll even be one little bit different they'll even be one little bit different they'll even be one or two communities that won't even allow or two communities that won't even allow or two communities that won't even allow slavery in them in north america but by slavery in them in north america but by slavery in them in north america but by and large you get the the general and large you get the the general and large you get the the general consensus that labor is consensus that labor is consensus that labor is necessary and in short supply and what's also interesting is if you and what's also interesting is if you buy into the premise from the buy into the premise from the buy into the premise from the primary sources and i mean from multiple primary sources and i mean from multiple primary sources and i mean from multiple different nations cultures eras i mean different nations cultures eras i mean different nations cultures eras i mean over hundreds of years over hundreds of years over hundreds of years you can read you can read you can read plea after plea after plea from these plea after plea after plea from these plea after plea after plea from these people in the americas people in the americas people in the americas writing back to the old country saying writing back to the old country saying writing back to the old country saying if we don't have more slaves if we don't have more slaves if we don't have more slaves then we can't settle this place at all

then we can't settle this place at all then we can't settle this place at all and it didn't necessarily have to be and it didn't necessarily have to be and it didn't necessarily have to be african slaves i mean this is also the african slaves i mean this is also the african slaves i mean this is also the period where the famous indentured period where the famous indentured period where the famous indentured servitude servitude servitude era really takes off big era really takes off big era really takes off big but it doesn't appear that many of these but it doesn't appear that many of these but it doesn't appear that many of these people are talking about free labor in people are talking about free labor in people are talking about free labor in any way shape or form it's either going any way shape or form it's either going any way shape or form it's either going to be slaves or indentured servants or to be slaves or indentured servants or to be slaves or indentured servants or something like that and if you something like that and if you something like that and if you take their arguments at face value and i take their arguments at face value and i take their arguments at face value and i can't figure out if this is somehow can't figure out if this is somehow can't figure out if this is somehow sort of a lack of imagination sort of a lack of imagination sort of a lack of imagination or the blinders that are put on because or the blinders that are put on because or the blinders that are put on because these people come from a different era these people come from a different era these people come from a different era in a different economic system in a different economic system in a different economic system but if you take their arguments at face but if you take their arguments at face but if you take their arguments at face value it's as though they're saying value it's as though they're saying value it's as though they're saying that if the americas had been found that if the americas had been found that if the americas had been found you know with the modern eras sort of you know with the modern eras sort of you know with the modern eras sort of values in mind right where we pay people values in mind right where we pay people values in mind right where we pay people for work for work for work that it simply wouldn't be settled or that it simply wouldn't be settled or that it simply wouldn't be settled or that we'd still be stuck hundreds of that we'd still be stuck hundreds of that we'd still be stuck hundreds of years later on the eastern seaboard years later on the eastern seaboard years later on the eastern seaboard still trying to chop down the primeval still trying to chop down the primeval still trying to chop down the primeval forests in the east with paid labor i forests in the east with paid labor i forests in the east with paid labor i mean mean mean it's interesting to contemplate right it's interesting to contemplate right it's interesting to contemplate right the what ifs here and and what we're the what ifs here and and what we're the what ifs here and and what we're dealing with one thing you can say dealing with one thing you can say dealing with one thing you can say though though though is that the numbers are borderline is that the numbers are borderline is that the numbers are borderline shocking even for someone who should shocking even for someone who should shocking even for someone who should know better like yours truly know better like yours truly know better like yours truly and in human bondage david breon davis and in human bondage david breon davis and in human bondage david breon davis writes um writes um writes um gives you some statistics that show you gives you some statistics that show you gives you some statistics that show you the amount of people that are coming the amount of people that are coming the amount of people that are coming over from the old world to the new world over from the old world to the new world over from the old world to the new world and and and i all you can say is i should have known i all you can say is i should have known i all you can say is i should have known this listen to these numbers and tell me this listen to these numbers and tell me this listen to these numbers and tell me if this doesn't shock you if this doesn't shock you if this doesn't shock you davis writes quote davis writes quote davis writes quote in retrospect it appears that the entire in retrospect it appears that the entire in retrospect it appears that the entire new world enterprise depended on the new world enterprise depended on the new world enterprise depended on the enormous and expandable flow of slave

enormous and expandable flow of slave enormous and expandable flow of slave labor from africa though in 1495 labor from africa though in 1495 labor from africa though in 1495 columbus transported some 500 native columbus transported some 500 native columbus transported some 500 native american slaves to seville and dreamed american slaves to seville and dreamed american slaves to seville and dreamed of a profitable slave trade of american of a profitable slave trade of american of a profitable slave trade of american quote end quote indians to iberia italy quote end quote indians to iberia italy quote end quote indians to iberia italy sicily and the atlantic islands some sicily and the atlantic islands some sicily and the atlantic islands some african slaves arrived in the caribbean african slaves arrived in the caribbean african slaves arrived in the caribbean at least as early as 1501 at least as early as 1501 at least as early as 1501 by 1820 nearly 8.7 million slaves had by 1820 nearly 8.7 million slaves had by 1820 nearly 8.7 million slaves had departed from africa to the new world as departed from africa to the new world as departed from africa to the new world as opposed to only 2.6 million whites many opposed to only 2.6 million whites many opposed to only 2.6 million whites many of them convicts or indentured servants of them convicts or indentured servants of them convicts or indentured servants who had left europe thus he writes who had left europe thus he writes who had left europe thus he writes by 1820 by 1820 by 1820 african slaves constituted almost 77 african slaves constituted almost 77 african slaves constituted almost 77 of the enormous population that had of the enormous population that had of the enormous population that had sailed toward the americas and from 1760 sailed toward the americas and from 1760 sailed toward the americas and from 1760 to 1820 this emigrating flow included to 1820 this emigrating flow included to 1820 this emigrating flow included 5.6 african slaves for every european 5.6 african slaves for every european 5.6 african slaves for every european from 1820 to 1880 the african slave from 1820 to 1880 the african slave from 1820 to 1880 the african slave trade most of it now illegal trade most of it now illegal trade most of it now illegal continued to ship off from africa nearly continued to ship off from africa nearly continued to ship off from africa nearly 2.3 million more slaves mainly to brazil 2.3 million more slaves mainly to brazil 2.3 million more slaves mainly to brazil and cuba and cuba and cuba end quote end quote end quote that's an astounding number i mean that's an astounding number i mean that's an astounding number i mean the majority of people who emigrated to the majority of people who emigrated to the majority of people who emigrated to the americas until 1820 the americas until 1820 the americas until 1820 were black and it wasn't because and it wasn't because that's what everybody wanted in terms of that's what everybody wanted in terms of that's what everybody wanted in terms of a racial makeup in this new world a racial makeup in this new world a racial makeup in this new world it's because of the labor shortage and it's because of the labor shortage and it's because of the labor shortage and this was the way these people solved it

now i have no evidence to prove it handy now i have no evidence to prove it handy but i would assume this is probably the but i would assume this is probably the but i would assume this is probably the greatest labor shortage greatest labor shortage greatest labor shortage in global history in global history in global history and you can see changes in and you can see changes in and you can see changes in the market to fill it over the centuries the market to fill it over the centuries the market to fill it over the centuries i mean as we said the portuguese i mean as we said the portuguese i mean as we said the portuguese dominate the slave trade early build all dominate the slave trade early build all dominate the slave trade early build all kinds of forts and castles off the coast kinds of forts and castles off the coast kinds of forts and castles off the coast of africa become the initial people of africa become the initial people of africa become the initial people running this thing build the foundation running this thing build the foundation running this thing build the foundation build the infrastructure but then at build the infrastructure but then at build the infrastructure but then at some point the dutch will sort of some point the dutch will sort of some point the dutch will sort of supplant them and then after that the supplant them and then after that the supplant them and then after that the british will supplant the dutch in terms british will supplant the dutch in terms british will supplant the dutch in terms of dominating the slave trade and all of dominating the slave trade and all of dominating the slave trade and all these governments we should point out these governments we should point out these governments we should point out tax it right they tax the slave ships tax it right they tax the slave ships tax it right they tax the slave ships they tax the transaction so so the they tax the transaction so so the they tax the transaction so so the government is is making money directly government is is making money directly government is is making money directly off the slave trade and then they pour off the slave trade and then they pour off the slave trade and then they pour that into well everything you can think that into well everything you can think that into well everything you can think of including building the of including building the of including building the infrastructures of a lot of these cities infrastructures of a lot of these cities infrastructures of a lot of these cities in europe right and in the new world too in europe right and in the new world too in europe right and in the new world too but it gives them a vested interest in but it gives them a vested interest in but it gives them a vested interest in the slave trade doesn't it and over time the slave trade doesn't it and over time the slave trade doesn't it and over time you can see you can see you can see uh that the people who are being made uh that the people who are being made uh that the people who are being made slaves will change and the labor slaves will change and the labor slaves will change and the labor shortage will be handled by different shortage will be handled by different shortage will be handled by different groups i mean initially as we said groups i mean initially as we said groups i mean initially as we said around columbus's time period and soon around columbus's time period and soon around columbus's time period and soon afterwards the slave numbers are afterwards the slave numbers are afterwards the slave numbers are dominated by the natives the indigenous dominated by the natives the indigenous dominated by the natives the indigenous peoples peoples peoples and then by about the 1600s you see and then by about the 1600s you see and then by about the 1600s you see sort of a rough parody right sort of a rough parody right sort of a rough parody right uh native peoples forming maybe like a uh native peoples forming maybe like a uh native peoples forming maybe like a third and i'm just these are rough third and i'm just these are rough third and i'm just these are rough ballpark estimates but but the natives ballpark estimates but but the natives ballpark estimates but but the natives forming like a third of the slave forming like a third of the slave forming like a third of the slave numbers indentured servants from europe numbers indentured servants from europe numbers indentured servants from europe right people who are essentially right people who are essentially right people who are essentially temporary slaves forming

temporary slaves forming temporary slaves forming a third and africans forming about a a third and africans forming about a a third and africans forming about a third um frederick douglass who i've third um frederick douglass who i've third um frederick douglass who i've always considered to be sort of the always considered to be sort of the always considered to be sort of the black founding father he's a one of the black founding father he's a one of the black founding father he's a one of the more impressive human beings in american more impressive human beings in american more impressive human beings in american history if you've not read his history if you've not read his history if you've not read his autobiographies he's got more than one autobiographies he's got more than one autobiographies he's got more than one uh he's just wonderful and and he tells uh he's just wonderful and and he tells uh he's just wonderful and and he tells the story of uh encountering some irish the story of uh encountering some irish the story of uh encountering some irish guys when frederick douglass is a slave guys when frederick douglass is a slave guys when frederick douglass is a slave and he helps them with some labors that and he helps them with some labors that and he helps them with some labors that they're doing and after they're done they're doing and after they're done they're doing and after they're done moving some heavy stuff um you know the moving some heavy stuff um you know the moving some heavy stuff um you know the the irish guys find out that douglas is the irish guys find out that douglas is the irish guys find out that douglas is a slave or they knew it before but then a slave or they knew it before but then a slave or they knew it before but then they asked him a key question they asked him a key question they asked him a key question they say are ye a slave for life they say are ye a slave for life they say are ye a slave for life meaning that the irish people would meaning that the irish people would meaning that the irish people would probably have been uh familiar with the probably have been uh familiar with the probably have been uh familiar with the indentured servitude idea where you indentured servitude idea where you indentured servitude idea where you might be essentially a slave and you might be essentially a slave and you might be essentially a slave and you could be sold and all those kinds of could be sold and all those kinds of could be sold and all those kinds of things but there's a time limit on it things but there's a time limit on it things but there's a time limit on it and after that you're free and after that you're free and after that you're free convicts i think was usually double the convicts i think was usually double the convicts i think was usually double the time limit before you're free time limit before you're free time limit before you're free um um um as a sort of indentured servant and as a sort of indentured servant and as a sort of indentured servant and convicts have formed convicts have formed convicts have formed large chunks of many societies i mean large chunks of many societies i mean large chunks of many societies i mean australia had a lot of convicts the australia had a lot of convicts the australia had a lot of convicts the united states had a lot of convicts um united states had a lot of convicts um united states had a lot of convicts um you know as part of the early gene pools you know as part of the early gene pools you know as part of the early gene pools and douglas had to tell these people uh and douglas had to tell these people uh and douglas had to tell these people uh no that he was a slave for life and by no that he was a slave for life and by no that he was a slave for life and by that means not only are you is there no that means not only are you is there no that means not only are you is there no time limit on when you're automatically time limit on when you're automatically time limit on when you're automatically freed freed freed but your progeny your kids are slaves but your progeny your kids are slaves but your progeny your kids are slaves too too too which uh the indentured servants that's which uh the indentured servants that's which uh the indentured servants that's not a thing not a thing not a thing but after about the 1600s you can see but after about the 1600s you can see but after about the 1600s you can see the demographics change there will be the demographics change there will be the demographics change there will be native american slavery in some parts of

native american slavery in some parts of native american slavery in some parts of of the americas of the americas of the americas well some some people would argue you well some some people would argue you well some some people would argue you still have that but that's never going still have that but that's never going still have that but that's never going away per se but in the great cities of away per se but in the great cities of away per se but in the great cities of the american east that are starting to the american east that are starting to the american east that are starting to develop you're not going to see tons of develop you're not going to see tons of develop you're not going to see tons of native american slavery even in the native american slavery even in the native american slavery even in the areas around the caribbean it's going to areas around the caribbean it's going to areas around the caribbean it's going to start to be dominated by about the late start to be dominated by about the late start to be dominated by about the late 1600s early 1700s by the african slave 1600s early 1700s by the african slave 1600s early 1700s by the african slave trade trade trade and the and the and the companies that developed to fill this companies that developed to fill this companies that developed to fill this labor need i mean we weren't just sort labor need i mean we weren't just sort labor need i mean we weren't just sort of making a a fanciful comparison when of making a a fanciful comparison when of making a a fanciful comparison when we call this uh sort of early capitalism we call this uh sort of early capitalism we call this uh sort of early capitalism monarchical capitalism uh it's been monarchical capitalism uh it's been monarchical capitalism uh it's been described before i mean the company described before i mean the company described before i mean the company that's in britain that handles the that's in britain that handles the that's in britain that handles the majority of the slave trade it's called majority of the slave trade it's called majority of the slave trade it's called the royal african company so i mean the royal african company so i mean the royal african company so i mean these are these are these are slave trading companies slave trading companies slave trading companies and it's big business because the slaves and it's big business because the slaves and it's big business because the slaves are doing every kind of job you can are doing every kind of job you can are doing every kind of job you can think of in what is slavery historian think of in what is slavery historian think of in what is slavery historian brenda e stevenson says quote brenda e stevenson says quote brenda e stevenson says quote by the beginning of the 1600s the by the beginning of the 1600s the by the beginning of the 1600s the increase in the trade in slaves to increase in the trade in slaves to increase in the trade in slaves to accommodate sugar and tobacco production accommodate sugar and tobacco production accommodate sugar and tobacco production as well as gold and silver mining also as well as gold and silver mining also as well as gold and silver mining also meant an increase in the numbers of meant an increase in the numbers of meant an increase in the numbers of persons in africa europe and the persons in africa europe and the persons in africa europe and the americas involved in the trade and the americas involved in the trade and the americas involved in the trade and the numbers of new world locales where numbers of new world locales where numbers of new world locales where african workers arrived sugar alone she african workers arrived sugar alone she african workers arrived sugar alone she writes accounted for the labor of 70 writes accounted for the labor of 70 writes accounted for the labor of 70 percent of the african imported slave percent of the african imported slave percent of the african imported slave labor in the new world over the labor in the new world over the labor in the new world over the centuries end quote these islands have certainly gone from these islands have certainly gone from having the green bananas of columbus's

having the green bananas of columbus's having the green bananas of columbus's day day day to the to the to the fully sailable and very valuable yellow fully sailable and very valuable yellow fully sailable and very valuable yellow bananas in this era and um stevenson bananas in this era and um stevenson bananas in this era and um stevenson writes quote writes quote writes quote the expansion of sugar cultivation the expansion of sugar cultivation the expansion of sugar cultivation beyond brazil in the mid 17th century beyond brazil in the mid 17th century beyond brazil in the mid 17th century particularly to british and french particularly to british and french particularly to british and french islands in the caribbean was especially islands in the caribbean was especially islands in the caribbean was especially important in the development of this important in the development of this important in the development of this crop's dominance and the corresponding crop's dominance and the corresponding crop's dominance and the corresponding growth in the numbers of africans growth in the numbers of africans growth in the numbers of africans imported to cultivate it these locales imported to cultivate it these locales imported to cultivate it these locales she writes included jamaica and she writes included jamaica and she writes included jamaica and saint-domingue saint-domingue saint-domingue with planters who dominated the world with planters who dominated the world with planters who dominated the world market along with the british islands of market along with the british islands of market along with the british islands of barbados saint kitts and antigua and the barbados saint kitts and antigua and the barbados saint kitts and antigua and the french colonies of martinique and french colonies of martinique and french colonies of martinique and guadalupe guadalupe guadalupe other crops especially cacao in brazil other crops especially cacao in brazil other crops especially cacao in brazil and tobacco in barbados also fed this and tobacco in barbados also fed this and tobacco in barbados also fed this early agricultural boom early agricultural boom early agricultural boom by the 18th century coffee and indigo by the 18th century coffee and indigo by the 18th century coffee and indigo were also important slave produce were also important slave produce were also important slave produce exports exports exports end quote end quote end quote she then goes on to show some of the she then goes on to show some of the she then goes on to show some of the other jobs being done in places like other jobs being done in places like other jobs being done in places like brazil but you could say the same thing brazil but you could say the same thing brazil but you could say the same thing about north america we think of these about north america we think of these about north america we think of these large plantations an agricultural work large plantations an agricultural work large plantations an agricultural work but these people are doing everything but these people are doing everything but these people are doing everything stevenson says quote stevenson says quote stevenson says quote while agricultural work was what while agricultural work was what while agricultural work was what occupied most enslaved people they also occupied most enslaved people they also occupied most enslaved people they also worked in other sectors of the early worked in other sectors of the early worked in other sectors of the early colonial economies those in the first colonial economies those in the first colonial economies those in the first centuries of the atlantic trade who came centuries of the atlantic trade who came centuries of the atlantic trade who came to reside in brazil for example were to reside in brazil for example were to reside in brazil for example were also miners herders domestic servants

also miners herders domestic servants also miners herders domestic servants carpenters wheelwrights fishermen and carpenters wheelwrights fishermen and carpenters wheelwrights fishermen and lumbermen and ore performed other lumbermen and ore performed other lumbermen and ore performed other skilled or day labor work in skilled or day labor work in skilled or day labor work in spanish-speaking colonial america spanish-speaking colonial america spanish-speaking colonial america particularly mexico enslaved 16th particularly mexico enslaved 16th particularly mexico enslaved 16th century africans many like the acan i century africans many like the acan i century africans many like the acan i think it's akhan who were from the gold think it's akhan who were from the gold think it's akhan who were from the gold mining regions of ghana worked in gold mining regions of ghana worked in gold mining regions of ghana worked in gold and silver mines and silver mines and silver mines end quote end quote end quote now stevenson's talking about brazil now stevenson's talking about brazil now stevenson's talking about brazil there but you can say the same thing there but you can say the same thing there but you can say the same thing about north america before the american about north america before the american about north america before the american revolution revolution revolution because the northern territories had because the northern territories had because the northern territories had slaves back in those days too slaves back in those days too slaves back in those days too and they did all kinds of jobs and they did all kinds of jobs and they did all kinds of jobs and the funny thing about it is that and the funny thing about it is that and the funny thing about it is that what that does is preclude you from what that does is preclude you from what that does is preclude you from having some sort of example having some sort of example having some sort of example that applies to slavery in general that applies to slavery in general that applies to slavery in general because there is no i mean we used to because there is no i mean we used to because there is no i mean we used to think of it as a classically think of it as a classically think of it as a classically agricultural thing right picking cotton agricultural thing right picking cotton agricultural thing right picking cotton or harvesting sugar or god forbid for or harvesting sugar or god forbid for or harvesting sugar or god forbid for everybody i mean the minds were the everybody i mean the minds were the everybody i mean the minds were the worst right the romans in the ancient worst right the romans in the ancient worst right the romans in the ancient world if they sentenced the slaves to world if they sentenced the slaves to world if they sentenced the slaves to the minds it was almost a death sentence the minds it was almost a death sentence the minds it was almost a death sentence but frederick douglass in his but frederick douglass in his but frederick douglass in his autobiography talks about the first time autobiography talks about the first time autobiography talks about the first time he ever saw a slave in the big city you he ever saw a slave in the big city you he ever saw a slave in the big city you know which for him was baltimore he was know which for him was baltimore he was know which for him was baltimore he was from a rural plantation and he says when from a rural plantation and he says when from a rural plantation and he says when he got to baltimore and saw what slaves he got to baltimore and saw what slaves he got to baltimore and saw what slaves were like there he thought they were were like there he thought they were were like there he thought they were practically free men as far as he was practically free men as far as he was practically free men as far as he was concerned right no overseer with a whip concerned right no overseer with a whip concerned right no overseer with a whip watching everything they did watching everything they did watching everything they did and he blamed it on peer pressure the and he blamed it on peer pressure the and he blamed it on peer pressure the reason he said that slaves were treated reason he said that slaves were treated reason he said that slaves were treated better he says because none of the better he says because none of the better he says because none of the masters wanted to look like they

masters wanted to look like they masters wanted to look like they mistreated their slaves mistreated their slaves mistreated their slaves in front of everyone else in front of everyone else in front of everyone else you think about it more like a you think about it more like a you think about it more like a possession right if you have a fancy car possession right if you have a fancy car possession right if you have a fancy car uh you don't want it to get all run down uh you don't want it to get all run down uh you don't want it to get all run down and look shabby right and look shabby right and look shabby right it reflects badly on you and he was it reflects badly on you and he was it reflects badly on you and he was saying for example because he was always saying for example because he was always saying for example because he was always hungry it seemed like when i was reading hungry it seemed like when i was reading hungry it seemed like when i was reading um his writings back at home on the um his writings back at home on the um his writings back at home on the plantation and he said that uh no one plantation and he said that uh no one plantation and he said that uh no one would would would want to be accused in baltimore of want to be accused in baltimore of want to be accused in baltimore of starving their slaves and he thought starving their slaves and he thought starving their slaves and he thought that this peer pressure meant that the that this peer pressure meant that the that this peer pressure meant that the average slave had a better life than it average slave had a better life than it average slave had a better life than it had you know back on the plantation had you know back on the plantation had you know back on the plantation where no one can see what you're doing where no one can see what you're doing where no one can see what you're doing to your slaves to your slaves to your slaves which brings me to you know a part of which brings me to you know a part of which brings me to you know a part of the story that i keep the story that i keep the story that i keep i keep wanting to inject in here so i i keep wanting to inject in here so i i keep wanting to inject in here so i remember it myself if that makes sense remember it myself if that makes sense remember it myself if that makes sense but it's it's but it's it's but it's it's it's a kind of a hidden part but you can it's a kind of a hidden part but you can it's a kind of a hidden part but you can deduce it so easily right it's it's like deduce it so easily right it's it's like deduce it so easily right it's it's like when they find planets without actually when they find planets without actually when they find planets without actually seeing the planet but they can see that seeing the planet but they can see that seeing the planet but they can see that there must be a planet out there based there must be a planet out there based there must be a planet out there based on what's going on with the other ones i on what's going on with the other ones i on what's going on with the other ones i read an article read an article read an article um and it was a writer i don't remember um and it was a writer i don't remember um and it was a writer i don't remember if she was writing for if she was writing for if she was writing for the new york times or the atlantic or the new york times or the atlantic or the new york times or the atlantic or something like that but she'd made a something like that but she'd made a something like that but she'd made a comment about how comment about how comment about how every time she looked in the mirror she every time she looked in the mirror she every time she looked in the mirror she was reminded of was reminded of was reminded of a rape in her ancestral tree somewhere a rape in her ancestral tree somewhere a rape in her ancestral tree somewhere right her very skin color was a lasting right her very skin color was a lasting right her very skin color was a lasting legacy to slavery and it's the sexual legacy to slavery and it's the sexual legacy to slavery and it's the sexual assault question that we forget and assault question that we forget and assault question that we forget and that's not an african atlantic slave that's not an african atlantic slave that's not an african atlantic slave trade trade trade um um um issue that's a slavery issue going back

issue that's a slavery issue going back issue that's a slavery issue going back to the beginning of recorded history to the beginning of recorded history to the beginning of recorded history right right right this is i mean they buy slaves this is i mean they buy slaves this is i mean they buy slaves specifically for specifically for specifically for the concubine aspect of it in some the concubine aspect of it in some the concubine aspect of it in some places but even if that's not what you places but even if that's not what you places but even if that's not what you have them before the lack of have them before the lack of have them before the lack of legal protections and oversight and all legal protections and oversight and all legal protections and oversight and all that kind of stuff means you're going to that kind of stuff means you're going to that kind of stuff means you're going to get that anyway get that anyway get that anyway and what i mean by that is if is if and what i mean by that is if is if and what i mean by that is if is if you're one of those slaves in baltimore you're one of those slaves in baltimore you're one of those slaves in baltimore that looks like you're practically a that looks like you're practically a that looks like you're practically a free person to frederick douglass that free person to frederick douglass that free person to frederick douglass that doesn't protect you doesn't protect you doesn't protect you right if you're some um lady who works right if you're some um lady who works right if you're some um lady who works in the house where the enslaver lives in the house where the enslaver lives in the house where the enslaver lives and you cook for their family and you're and you cook for their family and you're and you cook for their family and you're practically a member of the household practically a member of the household practically a member of the household and uh and you know you you celebrate and uh and you know you you celebrate and uh and you know you you celebrate holidays with them and you know you're holidays with them and you know you're holidays with them and you know you're up in the in the privileged you know up in the in the privileged you know up in the in the privileged you know realms of the slave society as other realms of the slave society as other realms of the slave society as other slaves would view it that doesn't mean slaves would view it that doesn't mean slaves would view it that doesn't mean that when the lights go out at night that when the lights go out at night that when the lights go out at night you're not subjected to sexual assault you're not subjected to sexual assault you're not subjected to sexual assault all the time all the time all the time in other words without the legal in other words without the legal in other words without the legal protections just because you're you know protections just because you're you know protections just because you're you know outward situation seems so much more outward situation seems so much more outward situation seems so much more enviable no one knows what's really enviable no one knows what's really enviable no one knows what's really going on here except as that one woman going on here except as that one woman going on here except as that one woman had said you can tell by the color of had said you can tell by the color of had said you can tell by the color of her skin her skin her skin um and and the many writings that are um and and the many writings that are um and and the many writings that are made about the the fact that that made about the the fact that that made about the the fact that that everyone knew that the masters are everyone knew that the masters are everyone knew that the masters are sleeping with the slaves and everyone sleeping with the slaves and everyone sleeping with the slaves and everyone knew whose mixed-race child belonged to knew whose mixed-race child belonged to knew whose mixed-race child belonged to whom but everybody kind of discreetly whom but everybody kind of discreetly whom but everybody kind of discreetly kept their mouth shut about it kept their mouth shut about it kept their mouth shut about it well if they were talking to someone who well if they were talking to someone who well if they were talking to someone who might be uh the child's stepmother

might be uh the child's stepmother might be uh the child's stepmother anyway anyway anyway but needless to say you didn't have a but needless to say you didn't have a but needless to say you didn't have a lot of people lot of people lot of people writing accounts of this for the history writing accounts of this for the history writing accounts of this for the history books there's that's a problem with a books there's that's a problem with a books there's that's a problem with a lot of human suffering right if you want lot of human suffering right if you want lot of human suffering right if you want to have to have to have first-hand accounts of what it was like first-hand accounts of what it was like first-hand accounts of what it was like on the slave ship crossing the atlantic on the slave ship crossing the atlantic on the slave ship crossing the atlantic those are not easy to come by those are not easy to come by those are not easy to come by those people didn't publish a lot of those people didn't publish a lot of those people didn't publish a lot of books there are some there's a book i books there are some there's a book i books there are some there's a book i picked up because uh brenda stevenson picked up because uh brenda stevenson picked up because uh brenda stevenson was quoting from it was quoting from it was quoting from it called pioneers of the black atlantic called pioneers of the black atlantic called pioneers of the black atlantic which is uh several different slave which is uh several different slave which is uh several different slave narratives um narratives um narratives um but they're not always easily quotable but they're not always easily quotable but they're not always easily quotable kinds of things kinds of things kinds of things what they do show you though is is where what they do show you though is is where what they do show you though is is where you can't generalize about the slave you can't generalize about the slave you can't generalize about the slave experience experience experience of slaves in the americas you can make a of slaves in the americas you can make a of slaves in the americas you can make a distinction between those who were born distinction between those who were born distinction between those who were born in africa as free people in africa as free people in africa as free people and had to make the trip over and had to make the trip over and had to make the trip over and those who were born in the americas and those who were born in the americas and those who were born in the americas like frederick douglass is born in the like frederick douglass is born in the like frederick douglass is born in the americas he never was a free person americas he never was a free person americas he never was a free person before becoming a slave he never had to do that terrible uh ship he never had to do that terrible uh ship travel across the atlantic so there's travel across the atlantic so there's travel across the atlantic so there's certain things he he can't relate to certain things he he can't relate to certain things he he can't relate to uh and that other american-born slaves uh and that other american-born slaves uh and that other american-born slaves wouldn't have had to go through that wouldn't have had to go through that wouldn't have had to go through that would have been a shared experience that would have been a shared experience that would have been a shared experience that everyone who came from africa would have everyone who came from africa would have everyone who came from africa would have been able to relate to been able to relate to been able to relate to and one of the things that and one of the things that and one of the things that you know it you know it you know it sometimes you have to be reminded about sometimes you have to be reminded about sometimes you have to be reminded about things that after you hear about them things that after you hear about them things that after you hear about them seem obvious but you hadn't thought seem obvious but you hadn't thought seem obvious but you hadn't thought about them about them about them so brenda stevenson brings it up and

so brenda stevenson brings it up and so brenda stevenson brings it up and then after she says it i'm noticing it then after she says it i'm noticing it then after she says it i'm noticing it everywhere and it was about what these everywhere and it was about what these everywhere and it was about what these enslaved people go through before they enslaved people go through before they enslaved people go through before they even arrive even arrive even arrive at the ships to take them across the at the ships to take them across the at the ships to take them across the atlantic to the americas because in your atlantic to the americas because in your atlantic to the americas because in your mind's eye you think oh well it starts mind's eye you think oh well it starts mind's eye you think oh well it starts off they become slaves and then they get off they become slaves and then they get off they become slaves and then they get on their ships and that's horrible and on their ships and that's horrible and on their ships and that's horrible and then the whole thing starts no it starts then the whole thing starts no it starts then the whole thing starts no it starts long before then long before then long before then and what most of these people will and what most of these people will and what most of these people will experience between experience between experience between their capturing and the arrival at the their capturing and the arrival at the their capturing and the arrival at the coast to get on these ships coast to get on these ships coast to get on these ships any one of their experiences would be any one of their experiences would be any one of their experiences would be the worst experience most of us have the worst experience most of us have the worst experience most of us have ever had simply the branding alone would ever had simply the branding alone would ever had simply the branding alone would be something that would be in the be something that would be in the be something that would be in the forefront of your mind today had anybody forefront of your mind today had anybody forefront of your mind today had anybody ever taken a glowing hot piece of metal ever taken a glowing hot piece of metal ever taken a glowing hot piece of metal and stuck it on your skin for a and stuck it on your skin for a and stuck it on your skin for a significant period of time right and significant period of time right and significant period of time right and that's just one of the things they get that's just one of the things they get that's just one of the things they get to go through so stevenson talks about to go through so stevenson talks about to go through so stevenson talks about it though she talks about um the it though she talks about um the it though she talks about um the different ways these people could become different ways these people could become different ways these people could become enslaved and there's all sorts of enslaved and there's all sorts of enslaved and there's all sorts of different ways as i think we alluded to different ways as i think we alluded to different ways as i think we alluded to earlier earlier earlier and before we consider ourselves so and before we consider ourselves so and before we consider ourselves so morally advanced let's understand that morally advanced let's understand that morally advanced let's understand that if i couch it in the right framework if i couch it in the right framework if i couch it in the right framework many of you will agree that you'd many of you will agree that you'd many of you will agree that you'd support a kind of slavery under the support a kind of slavery under the support a kind of slavery under the right conditions and it's conditions right conditions and it's conditions right conditions and it's conditions that the africans enslaved people under that the africans enslaved people under that the africans enslaved people under too if i said that somebody committed too if i said that somebody committed too if i said that somebody committed some heinous crime some heinous crime some heinous crime and that for the rest of their life they and that for the rest of their life they and that for the rest of their life they were going to have to be involved in were going to have to be involved in were going to have to be involved in hard labor in order to pay society back hard labor in order to pay society back hard labor in order to pay society back a lot of people think that that was a a lot of people think that that was a a lot of people think that that was a just sentence just sentence just sentence and that was a kind of sentence that and that was a kind of sentence that and that was a kind of sentence that could get people put into slavery in

could get people put into slavery in could get people put into slavery in africa there were a bunch of other ones africa there were a bunch of other ones africa there were a bunch of other ones of course simply owing money could get of course simply owing money could get of course simply owing money could get you in trouble being a captive in war you in trouble being a captive in war you in trouble being a captive in war was a classic was a classic was a classic and my central african history is not and my central african history is not and my central african history is not good good good but i was reading that there was a a but i was reading that there was a a but i was reading that there was a a series of rather large wars between series of rather large wars between series of rather large wars between african rulers in the 17th and 18th african rulers in the 17th and 18th african rulers in the 17th and 18th centuries the byproduct of which is a centuries the byproduct of which is a centuries the byproduct of which is a lot of slaves to sell afterwards and so lot of slaves to sell afterwards and so lot of slaves to sell afterwards and so this was working out for everyone right this was working out for everyone right this was working out for everyone right we have uh ground zero production for we have uh ground zero production for we have uh ground zero production for this logistical supply chain that this logistical supply chain that this logistical supply chain that provides labor for the new world and as provides labor for the new world and as provides labor for the new world and as fate would have it we have a lot of wars fate would have it we have a lot of wars fate would have it we have a lot of wars creating a lot of product so creating a lot of product so creating a lot of product so get them while they're hot right all the get them while they're hot right all the get them while they're hot right all the african slaves you can transport and so african slaves you can transport and so african slaves you can transport and so stevenson talks about the stevenson talks about the stevenson talks about the the trip from the trip from the trip from initially becoming a slave to simply initially becoming a slave to simply initially becoming a slave to simply making it to the coast to get on the making it to the coast to get on the making it to the coast to get on the slave ships which is normally where we slave ships which is normally where we slave ships which is normally where we think the bad part starts well that think the bad part starts well that think the bad part starts well that would be wrong stevenson writes quote would be wrong stevenson writes quote would be wrong stevenson writes quote enslaved africans therefore entered the enslaved africans therefore entered the enslaved africans therefore entered the atlantic trade through numerous avenues atlantic trade through numerous avenues atlantic trade through numerous avenues as sold war captives kidnap victims as sold war captives kidnap victims as sold war captives kidnap victims social outcasts criminals as tribute social outcasts criminals as tribute social outcasts criminals as tribute payment were drawn from a pool of bonded payment were drawn from a pool of bonded payment were drawn from a pool of bonded laborers traditionally found in many laborers traditionally found in many laborers traditionally found in many western and central african societies western and central african societies western and central african societies some were sold from one local in africa some were sold from one local in africa some were sold from one local in africa to another and then eventually sold to to another and then eventually sold to to another and then eventually sold to europeans bound for the market in the europeans bound for the market in the europeans bound for the market in the americas the trips they took from their americas the trips they took from their americas the trips they took from their earlier places of residence or servitude

earlier places of residence or servitude earlier places of residence or servitude to the coast for embarkment to the to the coast for embarkment to the to the coast for embarkment to the caribbean or beyond could be hundreds of caribbean or beyond could be hundreds of caribbean or beyond could be hundreds of miles miles miles often she writes they were sold and often she writes they were sold and often she writes they were sold and resold along the way to the coast they resold along the way to the coast they resold along the way to the coast they marched in single or double file chained marched in single or double file chained marched in single or double file chained to each other with only the clothing to each other with only the clothing to each other with only the clothing they had on when taken eating and they had on when taken eating and they had on when taken eating and drinking only what their captors drinking only what their captors drinking only what their captors provided exhausted undernourished provided exhausted undernourished provided exhausted undernourished physically psychologically and sexually physically psychologically and sexually physically psychologically and sexually abused and often dehydrated as well abused and often dehydrated as well abused and often dehydrated as well some became ill others perished and rout some became ill others perished and rout some became ill others perished and rout it was only the beginning of their it was only the beginning of their it was only the beginning of their travails and their travels travails and their travels travails and their travels end quote end quote end quote she says then they get put in these she says then they get put in these she says then they get put in these giant sort of prison type facilities giant sort of prison type facilities giant sort of prison type facilities awaiting transport after they're sold awaiting transport after they're sold awaiting transport after they're sold and then the transport thing this also and then the transport thing this also and then the transport thing this also blew me away and i didn't think about blew me away and i didn't think about blew me away and i didn't think about this either because it's not something this either because it's not something this either because it's not something that occurs to you that occurs to you that occurs to you so so so james wolven in freedom points out that james wolven in freedom points out that james wolven in freedom points out that the key ingredient in terms of how nasty the key ingredient in terms of how nasty the key ingredient in terms of how nasty the transport was on these wooden ships the transport was on these wooden ships the transport was on these wooden ships from africa to the new world had to do from africa to the new world had to do from africa to the new world had to do with how long you had to be on the ships with how long you had to be on the ships with how long you had to be on the ships right the longer you were on it the right the longer you were on it the right the longer you were on it the worse it was because if you're being worse it was because if you're being worse it was because if you're being tortured the longer you're being tortured the longer you're being tortured the longer you're being tortured the worse it is right but then tortured the worse it is right but then tortured the worse it is right but then he says something that i didn't realize he says something that i didn't realize he says something that i didn't realize which is that these ships picked up which is that these ships picked up which is that these ships picked up cargo a little like the airport cargo a little like the airport cargo a little like the airport transport bus often does where instead transport bus often does where instead transport bus often does where instead of just picking you up and taking you to of just picking you up and taking you to of just picking you up and taking you to the airport it stops at many different the airport it stops at many different the airport it stops at many different stops until it has a full bus and then

stops until it has a full bus and then stops until it has a full bus and then it leaves for the airport so these ships it leaves for the airport so these ships it leaves for the airport so these ships are staying offshore are staying offshore are staying offshore in africa off the coast near the equator in africa off the coast near the equator in africa off the coast near the equator right so it's hot as hell right so it's hot as hell right so it's hot as hell with people below decks until they get with people below decks until they get with people below decks until they get enough people to leave enough people to leave enough people to leave for the new world and um wolven gives for the new world and um wolven gives for the new world and um wolven gives you a sense of how long it might take you a sense of how long it might take you a sense of how long it might take before the ship is filled up enough to before the ship is filled up enough to before the ship is filled up enough to leave leave leave with people below decks in chains with people below decks in chains with people below decks in chains in a coffin size amount of personal in a coffin size amount of personal in a coffin size amount of personal space and wolven writes quote space and wolven writes quote space and wolven writes quote africans often spent longer on board a africans often spent longer on board a africans often spent longer on board a slave ship anchored off the coast of slave ship anchored off the coast of slave ship anchored off the coast of africa than in crossing the atlantic the africa than in crossing the atlantic the africa than in crossing the atlantic the ships accumulated their human cargos ships accumulated their human cargos ships accumulated their human cargos slowly from place to place where there slowly from place to place where there slowly from place to place where there were no facilities for holding africans were no facilities for holding africans were no facilities for holding africans on shore the ship acted as a floating on shore the ship acted as a floating on shore the ship acted as a floating prison until the master decided that he prison until the master decided that he prison until the master decided that he had had enough enslaved people to set had had enough enslaved people to set had had enough enslaved people to set out across the atlantic out across the atlantic out across the atlantic some ships little more than hulks acted some ships little more than hulks acted some ships little more than hulks acted as permanent offshore prisons as permanent offshore prisons as permanent offshore prisons passing on their captives to other ships passing on their captives to other ships passing on their captives to other ships ready to sail in the 17th century he ready to sail in the 17th century he ready to sail in the 17th century he writes dutch ships spent an average of writes dutch ships spent an average of writes dutch ships spent an average of 120 days on the coast british ships 94.

120 days on the coast british ships 94. 120 days on the coast british ships 94. a century later the dutch spent an a century later the dutch spent an a century later the dutch spent an average of 200 days on the coast french average of 200 days on the coast french average of 200 days on the coast french ships 143 ships 143 ships 143 in the mid to late 18th century british in the mid to late 18th century british in the mid to late 18th century british ships spent 173 days on the african ships spent 173 days on the african ships spent 173 days on the african coast coast coast end quote end quote end quote he says that one fact that stands out he says that one fact that stands out he says that one fact that stands out from the wealth of information from the wealth of information from the wealth of information is that millions of africans spent is that millions of africans spent is that millions of africans spent months at sea before they even left for months at sea before they even left for months at sea before they even left for the americas the americas the americas and if the amount of time you're on and if the amount of time you're on and if the amount of time you're on board the ship board the ship board the ship is the key question in terms of whether is the key question in terms of whether is the key question in terms of whether you live or die or how long the torture you live or die or how long the torture you live or die or how long the torture continues you can see that the situation continues you can see that the situation continues you can see that the situation is worse than most of us originally is worse than most of us originally is worse than most of us originally thought thought thought the part of the story i'm a little more the part of the story i'm a little more the part of the story i'm a little more familiar with as most of us are is the familiar with as most of us are is the familiar with as most of us are is the horrors of the crossing itself because horrors of the crossing itself because horrors of the crossing itself because it is so infamous it's a little like the it is so infamous it's a little like the it is so infamous it's a little like the trips in the closed rail cars to the trips in the closed rail cars to the trips in the closed rail cars to the concentration camps and the holocaust concentration camps and the holocaust concentration camps and the holocaust where where where the suffering that goes on while in the suffering that goes on while in the suffering that goes on while in transit is so famous transit is so famous transit is so famous because it's so terrible because it's so terrible because it's so terrible people sort of marked by the experience people sort of marked by the experience people sort of marked by the experience wolven talks about how wolven talks about how wolven talks about how the slave ships were known to just smell the slave ships were known to just smell the slave ships were known to just smell terrible like cesspits and cesspools and terrible like cesspits and cesspools and terrible like cesspits and cesspools and you could smell them miles away downwind you could smell them miles away downwind you could smell them miles away downwind but to imagine what it must have been but to imagine what it must have been but to imagine what it must have been like to be chained into a space like to be chained into a space like to be chained into a space about the size of a coffin while um

about the size of a coffin while um about the size of a coffin while um everyone else is around you doing what everyone else is around you doing what everyone else is around you doing what everyone else does everyone else does everyone else does while just living and surviving uh while just living and surviving uh while just living and surviving uh for months i i the nightmarish side of for months i i the nightmarish side of for months i i the nightmarish side of this is hard to get your mind around and this is hard to get your mind around and this is hard to get your mind around and wolven points out something once again wolven points out something once again wolven points out something once again that i didn't even think of if you want that i didn't even think of if you want that i didn't even think of if you want to take the rosham on approach to all to take the rosham on approach to all to take the rosham on approach to all this and see it from every different this and see it from every different this and see it from every different side he was pointing out that the people side he was pointing out that the people side he was pointing out that the people who are the ones who run the slave ship who are the ones who run the slave ship who are the ones who run the slave ship itself itself itself they're often terrified too and you they're often terrified too and you they're often terrified too and you might have 400 slaves on a ship with 17 might have 400 slaves on a ship with 17 might have 400 slaves on a ship with 17 crew members and the 17 crew members can crew members and the 17 crew members can crew members and the 17 crew members can be terrified also i mean you're stuck be terrified also i mean you're stuck be terrified also i mean you're stuck there on board with a lot of desperate there on board with a lot of desperate there on board with a lot of desperate people and if you actually look at people and if you actually look at people and if you actually look at slave revolts as a thing which we'll do slave revolts as a thing which we'll do slave revolts as a thing which we'll do in a little while the vast majority of in a little while the vast majority of in a little while the vast majority of them happen on board ships within sight them happen on board ships within sight them happen on board ships within sight of the african coast because it's sort of the african coast because it's sort of the african coast because it's sort of the last chance for these people to of the last chance for these people to of the last chance for these people to get away before they're severed from get away before they're severed from get away before they're severed from their homeland and they understand once their homeland and they understand once their homeland and they understand once they're out of sight of land how much they're out of sight of land how much they're out of sight of land how much their chances drop of ever getting back their chances drop of ever getting back their chances drop of ever getting back home again home again home again but the accounts are legendary but the accounts are legendary but the accounts are legendary of what it's like in um of what it's like in um of what it's like in um in in the holds of these ships and uh i in in the holds of these ships and uh i in in the holds of these ships and uh i picked one out here picked one out here picked one out here from someone who went through it this from someone who went through it this from someone who went through it this isn't an author it's an eyewitness and isn't an author it's an eyewitness and isn't an author it's an eyewitness and when he describes what he calls the when he describes what he calls the when he describes what he calls the necessary tubs the necessary tubs are necessary tubs the necessary tubs are necessary tubs the necessary tubs are what passes for latrines in these what passes for latrines in these what passes for latrines in these shipboard situations another thing shipboard situations another thing shipboard situations another thing wolven points out that it's worth wolven points out that it's worth wolven points out that it's worth remembering is that remembering is that remembering is that to travel by ship during most of this to travel by ship during most of this to travel by ship during most of this time period is time period is time period is harrowing for people who pay for the

harrowing for people who pay for the harrowing for people who pay for the privilege much less what it's like for privilege much less what it's like for privilege much less what it's like for slaves and um slaves and um slaves and um in the book pioneers of the black in the book pioneers of the black in the book pioneers of the black atlantic which is a compilation of atlantic which is a compilation of atlantic which is a compilation of several different slave stories several different slave stories several different slave stories uh slave and i hope i pronounce his name uh slave and i hope i pronounce his name uh slave and i hope i pronounce his name correctly aladoue equiano correctly aladoue equiano correctly aladoue equiano points out what it was like below decks points out what it was like below decks points out what it was like below decks for him when he makes this famous middle for him when he makes this famous middle for him when he makes this famous middle passage crossing and he says quote passage crossing and he says quote passage crossing and he says quote the stench of the hold while we were on the stench of the hold while we were on the stench of the hold while we were on the coast was so intolerably loathsome the coast was so intolerably loathsome the coast was so intolerably loathsome that it was dangerous to remain there that it was dangerous to remain there that it was dangerous to remain there for any time and some of us had been for any time and some of us had been for any time and some of us had been permitted to stay on the deck for the permitted to stay on the deck for the permitted to stay on the deck for the fresh air but now that the whole ship's fresh air but now that the whole ship's fresh air but now that the whole ship's cargo were confined together it became cargo were confined together it became cargo were confined together it became absolutely pestilential the closeness of absolutely pestilential the closeness of absolutely pestilential the closeness of the place and the heat of the climate the place and the heat of the climate the place and the heat of the climate added to the number in the ship which added to the number in the ship which added to the number in the ship which was so crowded that each had scarcely was so crowded that each had scarcely was so crowded that each had scarcely room to turn himself almost suffocated room to turn himself almost suffocated room to turn himself almost suffocated us this produced copious perspirations us this produced copious perspirations us this produced copious perspirations so that the air soon became unfit for so that the air soon became unfit for so that the air soon became unfit for respiration from a variety of loathsome respiration from a variety of loathsome respiration from a variety of loathsome smells and brought on a sickness among smells and brought on a sickness among smells and brought on a sickness among the slaves of which many died thus the slaves of which many died thus the slaves of which many died thus falling victims to the improvement falling victims to the improvement falling victims to the improvement avarice as i may call it of their avarice as i may call it of their avarice as i may call it of their purchasers purchasers purchasers this wretched situation he says was this wretched situation he says was this wretched situation he says was again aggravated by the galling of the again aggravated by the galling of the again aggravated by the galling of the chains now become insupportable and the chains now become insupportable and the chains now become insupportable and the filth of the necessary tubs into which filth of the necessary tubs into which filth of the necessary tubs into which the children often fell and were almost the children often fell and were almost the children often fell and were almost suffocated the shrieks of the women and suffocated the shrieks of the women and suffocated the shrieks of the women and the groans of the dying rendered the

the groans of the dying rendered the the groans of the dying rendered the whole a scene of horror almost whole a scene of horror almost whole a scene of horror almost inconceivable inconceivable inconceivable end quote end quote end quote and it goes on and it goes on and it goes on for for for months months months slaves jump slaves jump slaves jump overboard to get away from it committing overboard to get away from it committing overboard to get away from it committing suicide some believing that they'll go suicide some believing that they'll go suicide some believing that they'll go back to africa after they die back to africa after they die back to africa after they die uh some refuse to eat and as a response uh some refuse to eat and as a response uh some refuse to eat and as a response are brutally flogged are brutally flogged are brutally flogged the person the slave i just quoted said the person the slave i just quoted said the person the slave i just quoted said that he saw that he saw that he saw a white sailor a white sailor a white sailor flogged so horribly that he died and flogged so horribly that he died and flogged so horribly that he died and that they threw him overboard basically that they threw him overboard basically that they threw him overboard basically pointing out that the people that were pointing out that the people that were pointing out that the people that were doing this to the slaves in his mind had doing this to the slaves in his mind had doing this to the slaves in his mind had no human feeling at all and would do no human feeling at all and would do no human feeling at all and would do this to each other which scared him even this to each other which scared him even this to each other which scared him even more and once again we have and once again we have the hidden part of the story which is the hidden part of the story which is the hidden part of the story which is the rape and the many insinuations of the rape and the many insinuations of the rape and the many insinuations of girls and female children and young male girls and female children and young male girls and female children and young male children being raped by the crew children being raped by the crew children being raped by the crew continuously continuously continuously across the whole journey so you have across the whole journey so you have across the whole journey so you have these people who are almost dying whose these people who are almost dying whose these people who are almost dying whose only time to get out of the hole and out only time to get out of the hole and out only time to get out of the hole and out of the chains is to be part of a sexual of the chains is to be part of a sexual of the chains is to be part of a sexual assault assault assault these stories are about these stories are about these stories are about trauma inflicted upon trauma trauma inflicted upon trauma trauma inflicted upon trauma in a way that one has in a way that one has in a way that one has a logical question that one can ask of a logical question that one can ask of a logical question that one can ask of something like this something like this something like this how long would it take a family how long would it take a family how long would it take a family to have the pain and effects of trauma

to have the pain and effects of trauma to have the pain and effects of trauma at this sort of a level at this sort of a level at this sort of a level melt away melt away melt away i mean would your children i mean would your children i mean would your children be able to pick out things in their life be able to pick out things in their life be able to pick out things in their life that are the result of the trauma that that are the result of the trauma that that are the result of the trauma that you went through in a situation like you went through in a situation like you went through in a situation like this what about your grandchildren in this what about your grandchildren in this what about your grandchildren in other words how long until this sort of other words how long until this sort of other words how long until this sort of pain and suffering how long till the pain and suffering how long till the pain and suffering how long till the ripples ripples ripples caused by it caused by it caused by it die out and that's assuming of course that these and that's assuming of course that these people live very long tons of them die people live very long tons of them die people live very long tons of them die on the journey and it's this real on the journey and it's this real on the journey and it's this real catch-22 if you're looking at this from catch-22 if you're looking at this from catch-22 if you're looking at this from a business sense because you have a a business sense because you have a a business sense because you have a vested interest in packing the ship as vested interest in packing the ship as vested interest in packing the ship as closely as you can to get as many pieces closely as you can to get as many pieces closely as you can to get as many pieces of cargo on there as you can because of of cargo on there as you can because of of cargo on there as you can because of course that means more to sell course that means more to sell course that means more to sell but there becomes a point where you're but there becomes a point where you're but there becomes a point where you're hurting your own cargo and they start hurting your own cargo and they start hurting your own cargo and they start dying at greater rates if you pack them dying at greater rates if you pack them dying at greater rates if you pack them too much like sardines so perhaps too much like sardines so perhaps too much like sardines so perhaps there's a there's a there's a you know it's funny when you start you know it's funny when you start you know it's funny when you start saying that the only protection these saying that the only protection these saying that the only protection these people have in terms of better people have in terms of better people have in terms of better living conditions is because of their living conditions is because of their living conditions is because of their worth as a commodity worth as a commodity worth as a commodity doesn't stop them from being thrown doesn't stop them from being thrown doesn't stop them from being thrown overboard in droves sometimes sometimes overboard in droves sometimes sometimes overboard in droves sometimes sometimes to collect the insurance money to collect the insurance money to collect the insurance money there's a reason that this middle there's a reason that this middle there's a reason that this middle passage has been so mythologized in the passage has been so mythologized in the passage has been so mythologized in the history of slavery history of slavery history of slavery because in terms of because in terms of because in terms of horrible experiences that people go horrible experiences that people go horrible experiences that people go through it is right up there near the through it is right up there near the through it is right up there near the top of the list able to

able to hold its own hold its own hold its own with many of the worst things that you with many of the worst things that you with many of the worst things that you can think of throughout history and we should point out once again and we should point out once again that this is something that happens to that this is something that happens to that this is something that happens to people who are on their way people who are on their way people who are on their way to becoming slaves this is sort of the to becoming slaves this is sort of the to becoming slaves this is sort of the welcoming experience to their new life one of the things that they do to you in one of the things that they do to you in debate class and i know a lot of you've debate class and i know a lot of you've debate class and i know a lot of you've gone through this too gone through this too gone through this too is to is to is to give you a side in a debate that you give you a side in a debate that you give you a side in a debate that you don't agree with and then force you to don't agree with and then force you to don't agree with and then force you to defend it defend it defend it and i imagine if we were in some cosmic and i imagine if we were in some cosmic and i imagine if we were in some cosmic court of law court of law court of law and you said that i had to be the and you said that i had to be the and you said that i had to be the attorney representing the past on this attorney representing the past on this attorney representing the past on this slavery question you know against the slavery question you know against the slavery question you know against the attorney representing the present attorney representing the present attorney representing the present i think i'd point out that there's all i think i'd point out that there's all i think i'd point out that there's all sorts of laws that i can name from sorts of laws that i can name from sorts of laws that i can name from multiple countries over multiple eras multiple countries over multiple eras multiple countries over multiple eras that are designed that are designed that are designed to make this situation better for the to make this situation better for the to make this situation better for the enslaved people enslaved people enslaved people i mean we'd mentioned one of them i mean we'd mentioned one of them i mean we'd mentioned one of them earlier with the problems columbus ran earlier with the problems columbus ran earlier with the problems columbus ran into trying to enslave the indigenous into trying to enslave the indigenous into trying to enslave the indigenous peoples of the americas when the queen peoples of the americas when the queen peoples of the americas when the queen of castile who all also happened to be of castile who all also happened to be of castile who all also happened to be the one funding his mission in that the one funding his mission in that the one funding his mission in that little piece of uh little piece of uh little piece of uh of uh monarchal capitalism said who is of uh monarchal capitalism said who is of uh monarchal capitalism said who is this who why is my admiral enslaving my this who why is my admiral enslaving my this who why is my admiral enslaving my subjects right well france had something subjects right well france had something subjects right well france had something called the code noir in the 1600s

called the code noir in the 1600s called the code noir in the 1600s britain had rules on slave ships and how britain had rules on slave ships and how britain had rules on slave ships and how many slaves you could put on the ship i many slaves you could put on the ship i many slaves you could put on the ship i mean the the attorney for the past mean the the attorney for the past mean the the attorney for the past defending defending defending history would say history would say history would say hey listen i can cite all kinds of hey listen i can cite all kinds of hey listen i can cite all kinds of laws measures debates and things that laws measures debates and things that laws measures debates and things that were done to address this very issue were done to address this very issue were done to address this very issue it's not our fault it didn't come far it's not our fault it didn't come far it's not our fault it didn't come far enough to meet your modern standards we enough to meet your modern standards we enough to meet your modern standards we didn't even know what those were and you didn't even know what those were and you didn't even know what those were and you wouldn't have gotten anywhere near them wouldn't have gotten anywhere near them wouldn't have gotten anywhere near them if we hadn't taken the early steps like if we hadn't taken the early steps like if we hadn't taken the early steps like code noir and the queen of castile and code noir and the queen of castile and code noir and the queen of castile and limitations on the number of slaves you limitations on the number of slaves you limitations on the number of slaves you can have on ships and eventually things can have on ships and eventually things can have on ships and eventually things like going after the slave trade like going after the slave trade like going after the slave trade it's hard though because it's hard though because it's hard though because the world is a what's the line from the world is a what's the line from the world is a what's the line from trixie from gollum in the in the lord of trixie from gollum in the in the lord of trixie from gollum in the in the lord of the rings it's trixie and you don't know the rings it's trixie and you don't know the rings it's trixie and you don't know exactly what the motivations are and you exactly what the motivations are and you exactly what the motivations are and you have to be careful i mean have to be careful i mean have to be careful i mean you know is is a limit on the size of um you know is is a limit on the size of um you know is is a limit on the size of um slave ship capacity something done for slave ship capacity something done for slave ship capacity something done for the benefit the benefit the benefit of the human beings that are the cargo of the human beings that are the cargo of the human beings that are the cargo or are you doing it to protect product you got to be careful right we're human you got to be careful right we're human beings beings beings um we're a little trixie um we're a little trixie um we're a little trixie but i think the attorney representing but i think the attorney representing but i think the attorney representing the interests and conduct of the past the interests and conduct of the past the interests and conduct of the past would say would say would say um that there are things that they can um that there are things that they can um that there are things that they can point to the show that they were trying point to the show that they were trying point to the show that they were trying if you wanted to critique if you wanted to critique if you wanted to critique that from the other side the lawyer that from the other side the lawyer that from the other side the lawyer representing modern times would say well representing modern times would say well representing modern times would say well your enforcement was terrible

your enforcement was terrible your enforcement was terrible when when did this ever when when did this ever when when did this ever work out in the favor of the people that work out in the favor of the people that work out in the favor of the people that the law was supposed to protect when did the law was supposed to protect when did the law was supposed to protect when did anybody ever have to pay any penalties anybody ever have to pay any penalties anybody ever have to pay any penalties when was anybody ever discovered when was anybody ever discovered when was anybody ever discovered investigated or investigated or investigated or um taken to task when did any slave um taken to task when did any slave um taken to task when did any slave owners go to jail or pay a fine owners go to jail or pay a fine owners go to jail or pay a fine for the treatment of the people they for the treatment of the people they for the treatment of the people they owned you see what i'm saying is that owned you see what i'm saying is that owned you see what i'm saying is that you can have all the laws on the books you can have all the laws on the books you can have all the laws on the books that doesn't mean anything actually that doesn't mean anything actually that doesn't mean anything actually happens but a lawyer representing the happens but a lawyer representing the happens but a lawyer representing the past would have some ammunition in past would have some ammunition in past would have some ammunition in saying saying saying that they did not totally ignore this that they did not totally ignore this that they did not totally ignore this issue but when you see what one of these slave but when you see what one of these slave markets are like when these people markets are like when these people markets are like when these people arrive on these ships to the americas arrive on these ships to the americas arrive on these ships to the americas it's just it's just it's just it's impossible not to be critical it's impossible not to be critical it's impossible not to be critical on how anyone could look at this and on how anyone could look at this and on how anyone could look at this and think it was okay i was reading one think it was okay i was reading one think it was okay i was reading one account on and it was a abraham lincoln account on and it was a abraham lincoln account on and it was a abraham lincoln who's an interesting figure when it who's an interesting figure when it who's an interesting figure when it comes to slavery too an abraham lincoln comes to slavery too an abraham lincoln comes to slavery too an abraham lincoln account that was written by someone who account that was written by someone who account that was written by someone who was with him once and this is in the was with him once and this is in the was with him once and this is in the 1850s so it's quite a bit of time before 1850s so it's quite a bit of time before 1850s so it's quite a bit of time before he becomes president and they said that he becomes president and they said that he becomes president and they said that they were walking through the city they were walking through the city they were walking through the city streets somewhere i'm going from memory streets somewhere i'm going from memory streets somewhere i'm going from memory here but that they had chanced upon a here but that they had chanced upon a here but that they had chanced upon a slave market where a sail was taking slave market where a sail was taking slave market where a sail was taking place and i think it was a a woman that place and i think it was a a woman that place and i think it was a a woman that was being sold and lincoln's friend said was being sold and lincoln's friend said was being sold and lincoln's friend said his his fists would just completely his his fists would just completely his his fists would just completely clench and unclench and his jaw would clench and unclench and his jaw would clench and unclench and his jaw would get tight and he was saying something to get tight and he was saying something to get tight and he was saying something to the effect that this was just so wrong the effect that this was just so wrong the effect that this was just so wrong on so many levels it makes one wonder how many people have it makes one wonder how many people have to have a sort of to have a sort of to have a sort of softening of the heart or a change in softening of the heart or a change in softening of the heart or a change in outlook

outlook outlook before that manifests in a change in before that manifests in a change in before that manifests in a change in society because you know you can you can society because you know you can you can society because you know you can you can blame anyone from the past you want for blame anyone from the past you want for blame anyone from the past you want for the conditions that existed then the the conditions that existed then the the conditions that existed then the defense could easily be i'm just one defense could easily be i'm just one defense could easily be i'm just one person what do you think i can do all by person what do you think i can do all by person what do you think i can do all by myself the same defense you would myself the same defense you would myself the same defense you would probably use of somebody 500 years from probably use of somebody 500 years from probably use of somebody 500 years from now now now you know we're critical of something in you know we're critical of something in you know we're critical of something in our era i mean how could you people our era i mean how could you people our era i mean how could you people drive cars as long as you did i'm just drive cars as long as you did i'm just drive cars as long as you did i'm just one person what am i going to shut down one person what am i going to shut down one person what am i going to shut down the car industry the car industry the car industry that's how people in the past might have that's how people in the past might have that's how people in the past might have responded to you saying how could you responded to you saying how could you responded to you saying how could you put up with these slave markets look at put up with these slave markets look at put up with these slave markets look at what this is these people are like what this is these people are like what this is these people are like pieces of meat and if it doesn't make pieces of meat and if it doesn't make pieces of meat and if it doesn't make you as mad as it made abraham lincoln you as mad as it made abraham lincoln you as mad as it made abraham lincoln what's wrong with you what's wrong with you what's wrong with you i mean listen to these sorts of i mean listen to these sorts of i mean listen to these sorts of uh eyewitness accounts of what the slave uh eyewitness accounts of what the slave uh eyewitness accounts of what the slave market was like it is market was like it is market was like it is fascinating so they often began fascinating so they often began fascinating so they often began at the sound of either a gun going off at the sound of either a gun going off at the sound of either a gun going off or a drum being sounded or a drum being sounded or a drum being sounded and people were sometimes nuts i mean it and people were sometimes nuts i mean it and people were sometimes nuts i mean it reminds you i mean if you're pardoned me reminds you i mean if you're pardoned me reminds you i mean if you're pardoned me reducing this to christmas shopping but reducing this to christmas shopping but reducing this to christmas shopping but like the craziness you see on television like the craziness you see on television like the craziness you see on television sometimes when people will wait outside sometimes when people will wait outside sometimes when people will wait outside a facility until midnight and then a facility until midnight and then a facility until midnight and then everybody goes in and they're you know everybody goes in and they're you know everybody goes in and they're you know ripping product from you know one person ripping product from you know one person ripping product from you know one person i mean i mean i mean sort of a crazed kind of thing right get sort of a crazed kind of thing right get sort of a crazed kind of thing right get the best before someone else does and the best before someone else does and the best before someone else does and when you let everybody in at once like when you let everybody in at once like when you let everybody in at once like that it's a free for all and this is a that it's a free for all and this is a that it's a free for all and this is a free for all free for all free for all you know of people buying people in his book slavery world history milton in his book slavery world history milton melzer describes um melzer describes um melzer describes um a sort of a typical slave market a sort of a typical slave market a sort of a typical slave market uh sale and says that sometimes the

uh sale and says that sometimes the uh sale and says that sometimes the affairs were done privately affairs were done privately affairs were done privately with an advanced sale that had been with an advanced sale that had been with an advanced sale that had been arranged ahead of time but normally it arranged ahead of time but normally it arranged ahead of time but normally it was the sort of you know doors open at was the sort of you know doors open at was the sort of you know doors open at noon at the sound of a gun noon at the sound of a gun noon at the sound of a gun you know um you know um you know um grab whatever you can kind of deal grab whatever you can kind of deal grab whatever you can kind of deal and he says the official name for it and he says the official name for it and he says the official name for it among some was the scramble and he among some was the scramble and he among some was the scramble and he writes quote writes quote writes quote after the walking skeletons had been after the walking skeletons had been after the walking skeletons had been disposed of he means they're really sick disposed of he means they're really sick disposed of he means they're really sick they were sold sort of in bulk right they were sold sort of in bulk right they were sold sort of in bulk right away get them out of the way less than a away get them out of the way less than a away get them out of the way less than a dollar a slave obviously he said because dollar a slave obviously he said because dollar a slave obviously he said because they often died and then you bring out they often died and then you bring out they often died and then you bring out the good product he said after the the good product he said after the the good product he said after the walking skeletons had been disposed of walking skeletons had been disposed of walking skeletons had been disposed of the healthy slaves came next sometimes the healthy slaves came next sometimes the healthy slaves came next sometimes they would be marched through the town they would be marched through the town they would be marched through the town behind bagpipes and drawn up for behind bagpipes and drawn up for behind bagpipes and drawn up for inspection by planters or their inspection by planters or their inspection by planters or their overseers in the public square if a west overseers in the public square if a west overseers in the public square if a west indian factor handled retail sales he indian factor handled retail sales he indian factor handled retail sales he took fifteen percent of the gross and took fifteen percent of the gross and took fifteen percent of the gross and another five percent of the net returns another five percent of the net returns another five percent of the net returns the quote end quote scramble however was the quote end quote scramble however was the quote end quote scramble however was the customary way of handling a sale the customary way of handling a sale the customary way of handling a sale by agreement with the buyers a fixed by agreement with the buyers a fixed by agreement with the buyers a fixed price was set for the four categories of price was set for the four categories of price was set for the four categories of slaves man woman boy and girl a day for slaves man woman boy and girl a day for slaves man woman boy and girl a day for the sale was advertised when the hour the sale was advertised when the hour the sale was advertised when the hour came a gun was fired the door to the came a gun was fired the door to the came a gun was fired the door to the slave yard was flung open and a horde of slave yard was flung open and a horde of slave yard was flung open and a horde of purchasers rushed in quote with all the purchasers rushed in quote with all the purchasers rushed in quote with all the ferocity of brutes end quote said a man ferocity of brutes end quote said a man ferocity of brutes end quote said a man named falconbridge a slave ship surgeon named falconbridge a slave ship surgeon named falconbridge a slave ship surgeon who witnessed several scrambles each who witnessed several scrambles each who witnessed several scrambles each buyer meltzer writes bent on getting his

buyer meltzer writes bent on getting his buyer meltzer writes bent on getting his pick of the pack tried to encircle the pick of the pack tried to encircle the pick of the pack tried to encircle the largest number of choice slaves by means largest number of choice slaves by means largest number of choice slaves by means of a rope the slaves helpless bewildered of a rope the slaves helpless bewildered of a rope the slaves helpless bewildered terrified were yanked about savagely terrified were yanked about savagely terrified were yanked about savagely torn by one buyer from another some were torn by one buyer from another some were torn by one buyer from another some were so panicked by one such scramble on the so panicked by one such scramble on the so panicked by one such scramble on the island of grenada that they hurled island of grenada that they hurled island of grenada that they hurled themselves over the wall and ran madly themselves over the wall and ran madly themselves over the wall and ran madly through the town through the town through the town once falcon bridge saw a scramble aboard once falcon bridge saw a scramble aboard once falcon bridge saw a scramble aboard a ship in kingston harbor when the a ship in kingston harbor when the a ship in kingston harbor when the buyers swooped in to seize their prey buyers swooped in to seize their prey buyers swooped in to seize their prey about 30 of the slaves leaped into the about 30 of the slaves leaped into the about 30 of the slaves leaped into the sea but all of them were soon fished out sea but all of them were soon fished out sea but all of them were soon fished out end quote end quote end quote he then points out that when the slaves he then points out that when the slaves he then points out that when the slaves were bought a second time the first time were bought a second time the first time were bought a second time the first time they're bought is on the coast of africa they're bought is on the coast of africa they're bought is on the coast of africa and they're branded then and he says now and they're branded then and he says now and they're branded then and he says now when they're bought again they're when they're bought again they're when they're bought again they're branded again the experience of being sold for the the experience of being sold for the africans arriving from africa africans arriving from africa africans arriving from africa is a little bit different than the is a little bit different than the is a little bit different than the experience of being sold experience of being sold experience of being sold for slaves who have already been in the for slaves who have already been in the for slaves who have already been in the americas the difference is usually americas the difference is usually americas the difference is usually one of close family relationships it was one of close family relationships it was one of close family relationships it was rare for the slaves from africa to be rare for the slaves from africa to be rare for the slaves from africa to be taken with family members and have their taken with family members and have their taken with family members and have their company and companionship the whole time company and companionship the whole time company and companionship the whole time so they weren't as often separated from so they weren't as often separated from so they weren't as often separated from close family members during the scramble close family members during the scramble close family members during the scramble kind of kind of kind of slave sale but once you get to where you slave sale but once you get to where you slave sale but once you get to where you have an inter internal slave trade where have an inter internal slave trade where have an inter internal slave trade where slaves who are born in the americas are slaves who are born in the americas are slaves who are born in the americas are being sold from one owner to another being sold from one owner to another being sold from one owner to another well now you have something that's part

well now you have something that's part well now you have something that's part of this human disaster here that is the of this human disaster here that is the of this human disaster here that is the breakup of families which is part of breakup of families which is part of breakup of families which is part of this huge huge this huge huge this huge huge lingering trauma from slavery as we said lingering trauma from slavery as we said lingering trauma from slavery as we said how long does it take for a family to how long does it take for a family to how long does it take for a family to have the ripples of um of pain go away have the ripples of um of pain go away have the ripples of um of pain go away well if your skin color is indicative of well if your skin color is indicative of well if your skin color is indicative of some of that pain that makes it very some of that pain that makes it very some of that pain that makes it very difficult difficult difficult and if you've had people in your family and if you've had people in your family and if you've had people in your family tree severed from their family that tree severed from their family that tree severed from their family that lasts a long time too frederick douglass lasts a long time too frederick douglass lasts a long time too frederick douglass talks about one of these sales where he talks about one of these sales where he talks about one of these sales where he was on a plantation that had been in in was on a plantation that had been in in was on a plantation that had been in in someone's hands for a while and then all someone's hands for a while and then all someone's hands for a while and then all of a sudden that person had to sell or of a sudden that person had to sell or of a sudden that person had to sell or they died i think and then you have this they died i think and then you have this they died i think and then you have this valuation how much of the slave's worth valuation how much of the slave's worth valuation how much of the slave's worth is part of the overall estate and then is part of the overall estate and then is part of the overall estate and then you liquidate you liquidate you liquidate you know the assets right and he says you know the assets right and he says you know the assets right and he says quote quote quote after the valuation then came the after the valuation then came the after the valuation then came the division i have no language to express division i have no language to express division i have no language to express the high excitement and deep anxiety the high excitement and deep anxiety the high excitement and deep anxiety which were felt amongst us poor slaves which were felt amongst us poor slaves which were felt amongst us poor slaves during this time during this time during this time our fate for life was now to be decided our fate for life was now to be decided our fate for life was now to be decided we had no more voice in that decision we had no more voice in that decision we had no more voice in that decision than the brutes amongst whom we were than the brutes amongst whom we were than the brutes amongst whom we were ranked a single word from the white men ranked a single word from the white men ranked a single word from the white men was enough against all our wishes was enough against all our wishes was enough against all our wishes prayers and entreaties to sunder forever prayers and entreaties to sunder forever prayers and entreaties to sunder forever the dearest friends dearest kindred and the dearest friends dearest kindred and the dearest friends dearest kindred and strongest ties known to human beings in strongest ties known to human beings in strongest ties known to human beings in addition to the pain of separation there addition to the pain of separation there addition to the pain of separation there was the horrid dread of falling into the was the horrid dread of falling into the was the horrid dread of falling into the hands of master andrew he was known to hands of master andrew he was known to hands of master andrew he was known to us all as being a most cruel wretch a

us all as being a most cruel wretch a us all as being a most cruel wretch a common drunkard who had by his reckless common drunkard who had by his reckless common drunkard who had by his reckless mismanagement and profligate dissipation mismanagement and profligate dissipation mismanagement and profligate dissipation already wasted a large portion of his already wasted a large portion of his already wasted a large portion of his father's property we all felt that we father's property we all felt that we father's property we all felt that we might as well be sold at once to the might as well be sold at once to the might as well be sold at once to the georgia traders as to pass into his georgia traders as to pass into his georgia traders as to pass into his hands hands hands for we knew that that would be our for we knew that that would be our for we knew that that would be our inevitable condition a condition held by inevitable condition a condition held by inevitable condition a condition held by us all in the utmost horror and dread i us all in the utmost horror and dread i us all in the utmost horror and dread i suffered more anxiety suffered more anxiety suffered more anxiety end quote end quote end quote one of the things that um one of the things that um one of the things that um i noticed while reading a bunch of i noticed while reading a bunch of i noticed while reading a bunch of different slave accounts different slave accounts different slave accounts is you tended you know there were is you tended you know there were is you tended you know there were certainly people that that met every certainly people that that met every certainly people that that met every sort of sort of sort of condition you can imagine but but it condition you can imagine but but it condition you can imagine but but it seemed to me there was a big division seemed to me there was a big division seemed to me there was a big division between the between the between the slaves that were rarely or never sold slaves that were rarely or never sold slaves that were rarely or never sold and so their whole lives is in one and so their whole lives is in one and so their whole lives is in one circumstance and the slaves that were circumstance and the slaves that were circumstance and the slaves that were sold over and over and over again uh sold over and over and over again uh sold over and over and over again uh douglas is one of those people where douglas is one of those people where douglas is one of those people where every time you're sold it's like a new every time you're sold it's like a new every time you're sold it's like a new chapter in the book that is your life chapter in the book that is your life chapter in the book that is your life and it's like rolling the dice and am i and it's like rolling the dice and am i and it's like rolling the dice and am i going to go to a sadistic sociopath now going to go to a sadistic sociopath now going to go to a sadistic sociopath now or am i going to go to somebody who or am i going to go to somebody who or am i going to go to somebody who graded on this on the slavery curve um graded on this on the slavery curve um graded on this on the slavery curve um isn't so bad isn't so bad isn't so bad as frederick douglass had said that he as frederick douglass had said that he as frederick douglass had said that he always measured the kindness of his always measured the kindness of his always measured the kindness of his master by the standards of the kindness master by the standards of the kindness master by the standards of the kindness set up amongst slave holders around them set up amongst slave holders around them set up amongst slave holders around them and so you know slavery is greater than and so you know slavery is greater than and so you know slavery is greater than the curve you take slavery as the the curve you take slavery as the the curve you take slavery as the condition that you have no control over condition that you have no control over condition that you have no control over and then you judge how well you're doing and then you judge how well you're doing and then you judge how well you're doing you know you know you know based on that compared to people in the

based on that compared to people in the based on that compared to people in the similar situation similar situation similar situation the point of the point of the point of what douglas was saying though that what douglas was saying though that what douglas was saying though that perhaps the africans see the africans perhaps the africans see the africans perhaps the africans see the africans had been severed from their families had been severed from their families had been severed from their families back in africa it's not that they don't back in africa it's not that they don't back in africa it's not that they don't have this pain is that it happened have this pain is that it happened have this pain is that it happened pre-voyage over um but the slaves who pre-voyage over um but the slaves who pre-voyage over um but the slaves who get to see their children sold away from get to see their children sold away from get to see their children sold away from them or their spouse or their parents them or their spouse or their parents them or their spouse or their parents well for some people you'd rather be well for some people you'd rather be well for some people you'd rather be dead wouldn't you so when we talk about dead wouldn't you so when we talk about dead wouldn't you so when we talk about the extremes of the human experience the extremes of the human experience the extremes of the human experience these are the kind of things these are the kind of things these are the kind of things um that all by themselves would be on um that all by themselves would be on um that all by themselves would be on the nasty list but when you realize that the nasty list but when you realize that the nasty list but when you realize that this atlantic slave trade combines this atlantic slave trade combines this atlantic slave trade combines numerous things that by themselves would numerous things that by themselves would numerous things that by themselves would be on your top 10 horrible list be on your top 10 horrible list be on your top 10 horrible list it's a cornucopia of atrocities and there was nothing we should point and there was nothing we should point out out out to prevent this incident this type of to prevent this incident this type of to prevent this incident this type of incident from happening over and over incident from happening over and over incident from happening over and over again again again during the course of a slave's lifetime during the course of a slave's lifetime during the course of a slave's lifetime right i mean right i mean right i mean you can have kids after your you can have kids after your you can have kids after your you know your parents were sold off and you know your parents were sold off and you know your parents were sold off and they can be sold off too or you could be they can be sold off too or you could be they can be sold off too or you could be sold i mean sold i mean sold i mean when you think of the power that this when you think of the power that this when you think of the power that this gives a slave holder over a slave gives a slave holder over a slave gives a slave holder over a slave it's an immense amount of leverage isn't it's an immense amount of leverage isn't it's an immense amount of leverage isn't it and it may help explain that most hard and it may help explain that most hard to to to get your mind around phenomenon that you get your mind around phenomenon that you get your mind around phenomenon that you you will run into with the primary you will run into with the primary you will run into with the primary sources of slavery which is what do you sources of slavery which is what do you sources of slavery which is what do you make make make of these slaves

of these slaves of these slaves uh and you'll see it for example in the uh and you'll see it for example in the uh and you'll see it for example in the primary sources in the united states primary sources in the united states primary sources in the united states later um what do you make of the slaves later um what do you make of the slaves later um what do you make of the slaves and it's a and it's a and it's a we should point out definitely a we should point out definitely a we should point out definitely a minority but who loved their masters or minority but who loved their masters or minority but who loved their masters or professed that they did is this the professed that they did is this the professed that they did is this the stockholm syndrome at work is this stockholm syndrome at work is this stockholm syndrome at work is this romanticizing the past when they were romanticizing the past when they were romanticizing the past when they were interviewed later is this um interviewed later is this um interviewed later is this um more like what frederick douglass was more like what frederick douglass was more like what frederick douglass was saying where you're grading this on sort saying where you're grading this on sort saying where you're grading this on sort of a slavery curve of a slavery curve of a slavery curve and if you had a master that would take and if you had a master that would take and if you had a master that would take into account your feelings about perhaps into account your feelings about perhaps into account your feelings about perhaps holding a sale where your children might holding a sale where your children might holding a sale where your children might be sold off and separated from you for be sold off and separated from you for be sold off and separated from you for life life life and an owner who wouldn't give a hoot and an owner who wouldn't give a hoot and an owner who wouldn't give a hoot about that about that about that well you might develop some sort of well you might develop some sort of well you might develop some sort of weird affection for weird affection for weird affection for your owner too i guess somebody who at your owner too i guess somebody who at your owner too i guess somebody who at least gave you the time of day in terms least gave you the time of day in terms least gave you the time of day in terms of of of humanitarian concerns humanitarian concerns humanitarian concerns but it is weird there's many aspects of but it is weird there's many aspects of but it is weird there's many aspects of slavery that are weird slavery that are weird slavery that are weird one thing though that we do need to sort one thing though that we do need to sort one thing though that we do need to sort of mentally understand and it's tough of mentally understand and it's tough of mentally understand and it's tough because you know when you're doing what because you know when you're doing what because you know when you're doing what i'm doing here and this has always been i'm doing here and this has always been i'm doing here and this has always been the problem with history since herodotus the problem with history since herodotus the problem with history since herodotus on is on is on is how do you pick examples and things to how do you pick examples and things to how do you pick examples and things to emphasize and how do you avoid cherry emphasize and how do you avoid cherry emphasize and how do you avoid cherry picking or making something look picking or making something look picking or making something look potentially worse or better than it potentially worse or better than it potentially worse or better than it really was because really was because really was because you know i can pick nasty horrific you know i can pick nasty horrific you know i can pick nasty horrific slavery story after nasty horrific slavery story after nasty horrific slavery story after nasty horrific slavery story and i'm not sure a slavery story and i'm not sure a slavery story and i'm not sure a chronicle of the bad things done to chronicle of the bad things done to chronicle of the bad things done to slaves over the eras illuminates us much slaves over the eras illuminates us much slaves over the eras illuminates us much more above the idea that we can really more above the idea that we can really more above the idea that we can really be awful to each other and the slavery

be awful to each other and the slavery be awful to each other and the slavery is one of those things that's horrifying is one of those things that's horrifying is one of those things that's horrifying so what do you get beyond that though so what do you get beyond that though so what do you get beyond that though well there's some interesting questions well there's some interesting questions well there's some interesting questions uh as i always say i'm not qualified to uh as i always say i'm not qualified to uh as i always say i'm not qualified to give answers but you know anyone can ask give answers but you know anyone can ask give answers but you know anyone can ask questions questions questions and a lot of my questions revolve around and a lot of my questions revolve around and a lot of my questions revolve around this idea of a society this idea of a society this idea of a society that figures out a way that figures out a way that figures out a way to transform a significant number of to transform a significant number of to transform a significant number of people into slaves and keep them in that people into slaves and keep them in that people into slaves and keep them in that condition condition condition because remember this is not one might because remember this is not one might because remember this is not one might compare this to business as we've been compare this to business as we've been compare this to business as we've been doing and entrepreneurship and trade and doing and entrepreneurship and trade and doing and entrepreneurship and trade and and all these kinds of things but at and all these kinds of things but at and all these kinds of things but at ground zero once slaves become slaves ground zero once slaves become slaves ground zero once slaves become slaves and end up where they're supposed to be and end up where they're supposed to be and end up where they're supposed to be you know in terms of uh final sale and you know in terms of uh final sale and you know in terms of uh final sale and you're working here and i own you you're working here and i own you you're working here and i own you how does this all how does this all how does this all keep people working keep people working keep people working in a free labor system you have in a free labor system you have in a free labor system you have carrots that you hold out to carrots that you hold out to carrots that you hold out to employees and if they don't do what you employees and if they don't do what you employees and if they don't do what you want you reduce or eliminate them right want you reduce or eliminate them right want you reduce or eliminate them right uh you don't do the kind of job i want uh you don't do the kind of job i want uh you don't do the kind of job i want i'm gonna lower your pay you don't do i'm gonna lower your pay you don't do i'm gonna lower your pay you don't do the kind of job i want over a long the kind of job i want over a long the kind of job i want over a long enough period of time i'm going to fire enough period of time i'm going to fire enough period of time i'm going to fire you you you but what if you're dealing with labor but what if you're dealing with labor but what if you're dealing with labor that doesn't want the job in the first that doesn't want the job in the first that doesn't want the job in the first place place place and isn't paid anything and isn't paid anything and isn't paid anything how do you get those people to work how do you get those people to work how do you get those people to work well that's where you move from carrots well that's where you move from carrots well that's where you move from carrots to sticks to sticks to sticks literally in some cases literally in some cases literally in some cases in the world that fear made historian in the world that fear made historian in the world that fear made historian jason t sharples jason t sharples jason t sharples describes this

describes this describes this system that's based on force system that's based on force system that's based on force and that is and that is and that is in a very real in a very real in a very real non-exaggerated sense a system of non-exaggerated sense a system of non-exaggerated sense a system of violence violence violence one that makes sure that slaves end up one that makes sure that slaves end up one that makes sure that slaves end up where they're supposed to go where they're supposed to go where they're supposed to go do the job that they're supposed to do do the job that they're supposed to do do the job that they're supposed to do when they get there if they dare to run when they get there if they dare to run when they get there if they dare to run away or escape that will find them away or escape that will find them away or escape that will find them return them to their place of origin in return them to their place of origin in return them to their place of origin in terms of ownership and then punish them terms of ownership and then punish them terms of ownership and then punish them and then an entire system devoted to and then an entire system devoted to and then an entire system devoted to preventing any sort of insurrection preventing any sort of insurrection preventing any sort of insurrection rebellion rising up or resistance it's a rebellion rising up or resistance it's a rebellion rising up or resistance it's a system right system right system right we americans like to we americans like to we americans like to uh poke fun when i was growing up we uh poke fun when i was growing up we uh poke fun when i was growing up we always used to use a fake german accent always used to use a fake german accent always used to use a fake german accent and poke fun at the gestapo question and poke fun at the gestapo question and poke fun at the gestapo question where they would ask a person in germany where they would ask a person in germany where they would ask a person in germany you know let me see your papers because you know let me see your papers because you know let me see your papers because in the united states of course being in the united states of course being in the united states of course being free people who could go wherever you free people who could go wherever you free people who could go wherever you wanted to wanted to wanted to that was something we made fun of except that was something we made fun of except that was something we made fun of except it didn't acknowledge the fact that it didn't acknowledge the fact that it didn't acknowledge the fact that there were lots of people that had to there were lots of people that had to there were lots of people that had to show their papers show their papers show their papers or not get in terrible trouble or be or not get in terrible trouble or be or not get in terrible trouble or be beaten or worse and they were slaves in beaten or worse and they were slaves in beaten or worse and they were slaves in the south when they were out at night the south when they were out at night the south when they were out at night part of the part of the part of the system of violence here and the system of violence here and the system of violence here and the controlling of forced labor required an controlling of forced labor required an controlling of forced labor required an entire entire entire edifice to be developed about this sort edifice to be developed about this sort edifice to be developed about this sort of things the slaves in the united of things the slaves in the united of things the slaves in the united states when you read the accounts they states when you read the accounts they states when you read the accounts they had a phrase that i kept running into had a phrase that i kept running into had a phrase that i kept running into and i didn't understand what it meant and i didn't understand what it meant and i didn't understand what it meant for the longest time and the phrase was for the longest time and the phrase was for the longest time and the phrase was sometimes they said patty rollers and sometimes they said patty rollers and sometimes they said patty rollers and sometimes they said patter rollers sometimes they said patter rollers sometimes they said patter rollers and it didn't make any sense to me until

and it didn't make any sense to me until and it didn't make any sense to me until i finally saw it again in context and it i finally saw it again in context and it i finally saw it again in context and it dawned on me they're saying patrollers dawned on me they're saying patrollers dawned on me they're saying patrollers now they didn't know what the term meant now they didn't know what the term meant now they didn't know what the term meant so they heard it and it became sort of a so they heard it and it became sort of a so they heard it and it became sort of a bastardized version of patroller paddy bastardized version of patroller paddy bastardized version of patroller paddy roller patter roller roller patter roller roller patter roller but the patter rollers were these people but the patter rollers were these people but the patter rollers were these people that were part of a system where in some that were part of a system where in some that were part of a system where in some of these places it was like jury duty of these places it was like jury duty of these places it was like jury duty every now and then you were required to every now and then you were required to every now and then you were required to serve as a person who went around serve as a person who went around serve as a person who went around checking slave passes hunting for checking slave passes hunting for checking slave passes hunting for runaway slaves all that kind of stuff runaway slaves all that kind of stuff runaway slaves all that kind of stuff it's a societal it's a societal it's a societal piece of the framework and structure piece of the framework and structure piece of the framework and structure that keeps a slave society running and that keeps a slave society running and that keeps a slave society running and it's all based on fear it's all based on fear it's all based on fear and violence and violence and violence and by the way sharple's uh first quotes and by the way sharple's uh first quotes and by the way sharple's uh first quotes slavery apologist is what he calls him slavery apologist is what he calls him slavery apologist is what he calls him brian edwards and who who said that brian edwards and who who said that brian edwards and who who said that force and violence was the only and the force and violence was the only and the force and violence was the only and the phrase he used was impulse to action phrase he used was impulse to action phrase he used was impulse to action um um um in which to which a slave person can in which to which a slave person can in which to which a slave person can respond right like i said you can't cut respond right like i said you can't cut respond right like i said you can't cut their wages you can't fire them their wages you can't fire them their wages you can't fire them and sharples writes and sharples writes and sharples writes that the violence at ground zero the that the violence at ground zero the that the violence at ground zero the bottom bottom bottom line when you're a slave on the line when you're a slave on the line when you're a slave on the plantation plantation plantation wherever you are is the whip the lash wherever you are is the whip the lash wherever you are is the whip the lash and he writes quote and he writes quote and he writes quote individual enslavers wielded the lash individual enslavers wielded the lash individual enslavers wielded the lash the most obvious instrument of attempted the most obvious instrument of attempted the most obvious instrument of attempted terror not to mechanically prod enslaved terror not to mechanically prod enslaved terror not to mechanically prod enslaved people so much as to inflict freshly people so much as to inflict freshly people so much as to inflict freshly stinging examples of what could befall stinging examples of what could befall stinging examples of what could befall them if they displeased an enslaver the them if they displeased an enslaver the them if they displeased an enslaver the historian edward baptiste has aptly historian edward baptiste has aptly historian edward baptiste has aptly characterized this as a system of

characterized this as a system of characterized this as a system of torture for compelling labor and outward torture for compelling labor and outward torture for compelling labor and outward obedience from enslaved people obedience from enslaved people obedience from enslaved people and a 17th century traveler also and a 17th century traveler also and a 17th century traveler also described this as a system of torments described this as a system of torments described this as a system of torments and excessive tortures those are quotes and excessive tortures those are quotes and excessive tortures those are quotes enslavers throughout the colonies enslavers throughout the colonies enslavers throughout the colonies sharples writes terrorized enslaved sharples writes terrorized enslaved sharples writes terrorized enslaved women and men with rape and its women and men with rape and its women and men with rape and its lingering trauma and they threaten them lingering trauma and they threaten them lingering trauma and they threaten them with the possibility of physical pain with the possibility of physical pain with the possibility of physical pain humiliation confinement or reassignment humiliation confinement or reassignment humiliation confinement or reassignment to difficult labor they also use the to difficult labor they also use the to difficult labor they also use the chattel principle to threaten to chattel principle to threaten to chattel principle to threaten to separate families through sale and they separate families through sale and they separate families through sale and they could send an individual to a new could send an individual to a new could send an individual to a new enslaver who was more sadistic or whose enslaver who was more sadistic or whose enslaver who was more sadistic or whose position in the economy involved a more position in the economy involved a more position in the economy involved a more grueling labor regime grueling labor regime grueling labor regime in wielding these instruments of fear in wielding these instruments of fear in wielding these instruments of fear sharples writes enslavers deliberately sharples writes enslavers deliberately sharples writes enslavers deliberately exploited people's human instinct to exploited people's human instinct to exploited people's human instinct to avoid doing whatever might lead to pain avoid doing whatever might lead to pain avoid doing whatever might lead to pain or loss or loss or loss coercion in slavery he says depended on coercion in slavery he says depended on coercion in slavery he says depended on fear of violence fear of violence fear of violence end quote frederick douglass explained it in an frederick douglass explained it in an interesting sense where he said he was interesting sense where he said he was interesting sense where he said he was kind of a troublesome slave and after kind of a troublesome slave and after kind of a troublesome slave and after he'd gone to baltimore and then returned he'd gone to baltimore and then returned he'd gone to baltimore and then returned to the plantation his master felt he'd to the plantation his master felt he'd to the plantation his master felt he'd sort of gotten unruly and some negative sort of gotten unruly and some negative sort of gotten unruly and some negative ideas and he wasn't anywhere near as ideas and he wasn't anywhere near as ideas and he wasn't anywhere near as valuable to him anymore so he was going valuable to him anymore so he was going valuable to him anymore so he was going to send him to a slave breaker to send him to a slave breaker to send him to a slave breaker to be broken to be broken to be broken and douglas describes this as a man who and douglas describes this as a man who and douglas describes this as a man who didn't even have much money but he was didn't even have much money but he was didn't even have much money but he was lucky lucky

lucky lucky lucky lucky because he was known as a person who because he was known as a person who because he was known as a person who could break slaves and because of that could break slaves and because of that could break slaves and because of that people with troublesome slaves would people with troublesome slaves would people with troublesome slaves would lend this man their slaves for a year so lend this man their slaves for a year so lend this man their slaves for a year so he got the free labor while he broke he got the free labor while he broke he got the free labor while he broke them so he benefited and then he would them so he benefited and then he would them so he benefited and then he would return the slaves back to the slave return the slaves back to the slave return the slaves back to the slave owners like a owners like a owners like a like a trained animal like a trained animal like a trained animal a broken a broken a broken dog and dog and dog and by the time he was done with this by the time he was done with this by the time he was done with this breaker of people breaker of people breaker of people douglas says he'd finally been turned douglas says he'd finally been turned douglas says he'd finally been turned into a slave transformed into a brute he into a slave transformed into a brute he into a slave transformed into a brute he said and it's a very famous passage and said and it's a very famous passage and said and it's a very famous passage and he writes quote he writes quote he writes quote if at any one time of my life more than if at any one time of my life more than if at any one time of my life more than another i was made to drink the another i was made to drink the another i was made to drink the bitterest dregs of slavery bitterest dregs of slavery bitterest dregs of slavery that time was during the first six that time was during the first six that time was during the first six months of my stay with mr covey he's the months of my stay with mr covey he's the months of my stay with mr covey he's the slave breaker slave breaker slave breaker we were worked in all weathers it was we were worked in all weathers it was we were worked in all weathers it was never too hot or too cold it could never never too hot or too cold it could never never too hot or too cold it could never rain blow hail or snow too hard for us rain blow hail or snow too hard for us rain blow hail or snow too hard for us to work in the field work work work was to work in the field work work work was to work in the field work work work was scarcely more the order of the day than scarcely more the order of the day than scarcely more the order of the day than of the night the longest days were too of the night the longest days were too of the night the longest days were too short for him and the shortest nights short for him and the shortest nights short for him and the shortest nights too long for him too long for him too long for him i was somewhat unmanageable when i first i was somewhat unmanageable when i first i was somewhat unmanageable when i first went there but a few months of this went there but a few months of this went there but a few months of this discipline tamed me discipline tamed me discipline tamed me mr covey succeeded in breaking me i was mr covey succeeded in breaking me i was mr covey succeeded in breaking me i was broken in body soul and spirit my broken in body soul and spirit my broken in body soul and spirit my natural elasticity was crushed my natural elasticity was crushed my natural elasticity was crushed my intellect languished the disposition to intellect languished the disposition to intellect languished the disposition to read departed read departed read departed and the cheerful spark that lingered and the cheerful spark that lingered and the cheerful spark that lingered about my eye died the dark night of

about my eye died the dark night of about my eye died the dark night of slavery closed in upon me and behold a slavery closed in upon me and behold a slavery closed in upon me and behold a man transformed into a brute man transformed into a brute man transformed into a brute sunday was my only leisure time he wrote sunday was my only leisure time he wrote sunday was my only leisure time he wrote i spent this in a sort of a beast-like i spent this in a sort of a beast-like i spent this in a sort of a beast-like stupor between sleep and wake under some stupor between sleep and wake under some stupor between sleep and wake under some large tree large tree large tree at times i would rise up a flash of at times i would rise up a flash of at times i would rise up a flash of energetic freedom would dart through my energetic freedom would dart through my energetic freedom would dart through my soul soul soul accompanied with a faint beam of hope accompanied with a faint beam of hope accompanied with a faint beam of hope that flickered for a moment and then that flickered for a moment and then that flickered for a moment and then vanished i sank down again vanished i sank down again vanished i sank down again mourning over my wretched condition i mourning over my wretched condition i mourning over my wretched condition i was sometimes prompted to take my life was sometimes prompted to take my life was sometimes prompted to take my life and that of kovi but was prevented by a and that of kovi but was prevented by a and that of kovi but was prevented by a combination of hope and fear combination of hope and fear combination of hope and fear my sufferings on this plantation seem my sufferings on this plantation seem my sufferings on this plantation seem now like a dream rather than a stern now like a dream rather than a stern now like a dream rather than a stern reality reality reality end quote in slavery world history milton meltzer in slavery world history milton meltzer has a firsthand account of an eyewitness has a firsthand account of an eyewitness has a firsthand account of an eyewitness observer that observer that observer that was in haiti in the period i'm sure it was in haiti in the period i'm sure it was in haiti in the period i'm sure it was a little before um was a little before um was a little before um this period that frederick douglass's this period that frederick douglass's this period that frederick douglass's quote i just did was taken quote i just did was taken quote i just did was taken and they describe what the slavery is and they describe what the slavery is and they describe what the slavery is like in haiti like in haiti like in haiti on these back-breaking sugar plantations on these back-breaking sugar plantations on these back-breaking sugar plantations and swiss traveler gerard chantron i and swiss traveler gerard chantron i and swiss traveler gerard chantron i believe it's pronounced described the believe it's pronounced described the believe it's pronounced described the slaves slaves slaves at work that he saw at work that he saw at work that he saw who went to the fields at daybreak and who went to the fields at daybreak and who went to the fields at daybreak and sometimes quit only at 10 at night and sometimes quit only at 10 at night and sometimes quit only at 10 at night and he said quote he said quote he said quote they were about a hundred men and women

they were about a hundred men and women they were about a hundred men and women of different ages all occupied in of different ages all occupied in of different ages all occupied in digging ditches in a cane field the digging ditches in a cane field the digging ditches in a cane field the majority of them naked or covered with majority of them naked or covered with majority of them naked or covered with rags the sun shone down with full force rags the sun shone down with full force rags the sun shone down with full force on their heads sweat rolled from all on their heads sweat rolled from all on their heads sweat rolled from all parts of their bodies their limbs parts of their bodies their limbs parts of their bodies their limbs weighed down by the heat fatigued with weighed down by the heat fatigued with weighed down by the heat fatigued with the weight of their picks by the the weight of their picks by the the weight of their picks by the resistance of the clayey soil baked hard resistance of the clayey soil baked hard resistance of the clayey soil baked hard enough to break their implements enough to break their implements enough to break their implements strained themselves to overcome every strained themselves to overcome every strained themselves to overcome every obstacle a mournful silence reigned obstacle a mournful silence reigned obstacle a mournful silence reigned exhaustion was stamped on every face but exhaustion was stamped on every face but exhaustion was stamped on every face but the hour of rest had not yet come the hour of rest had not yet come the hour of rest had not yet come the pitiless eye of the manager the pitiless eye of the manager the pitiless eye of the manager patrolled the gang and several foremen patrolled the gang and several foremen patrolled the gang and several foremen armed with long whips moved periodically armed with long whips moved periodically armed with long whips moved periodically between them giving stinging blows to between them giving stinging blows to between them giving stinging blows to all who worn out by fatigue were all who worn out by fatigue were all who worn out by fatigue were compelled to take a rest men or women compelled to take a rest men or women compelled to take a rest men or women young or old end quote now as we said earlier now as we said earlier if you study history and i know many of if you study history and i know many of if you study history and i know many of you do there's nothing shocking about you do there's nothing shocking about you do there's nothing shocking about this the condition of these people the this the condition of these people the this the condition of these people the circumstances or anything like that circumstances or anything like that circumstances or anything like that the part that begins to the part that begins to the part that begins to feel so wrong is the era that we're in feel so wrong is the era that we're in feel so wrong is the era that we're in where this is still happening as i said where this is still happening as i said where this is still happening as i said earlier this seems like an ancient earlier this seems like an ancient earlier this seems like an ancient institution that is out of place here institution that is out of place here institution that is out of place here and to have all of the modern techniques and to have all of the modern techniques and to have all of the modern techniques of commerce and business and logistics of commerce and business and logistics of commerce and business and logistics and supply and supply you know all these and supply and supply you know all these and supply and supply you know all these kinds of things kinds of things kinds of things applied to such a

applied to such a applied to such a seemingly outdated sort of entity seemingly outdated sort of entity seemingly outdated sort of entity it's somewhat jarring this is the it's somewhat jarring this is the it's somewhat jarring this is the strangest part to me of modern day strangest part to me of modern day strangest part to me of modern day slavery because you see the same sorts slavery because you see the same sorts slavery because you see the same sorts of stories in the past but they seem to of stories in the past but they seem to of stories in the past but they seem to belong in the distant past and you can belong in the distant past and you can belong in the distant past and you can see see see the effect it's having on some of the the effect it's having on some of the the effect it's having on some of the people who can be people who can be people who can be pretty introspective during this time pretty introspective during this time pretty introspective during this time period let's say late 1700s early 1800s period let's say late 1700s early 1800s period let's say late 1700s early 1800s i was reading a book called how the word i was reading a book called how the word i was reading a book called how the word is passed by clint smith and it's about is passed by clint smith and it's about is passed by clint smith and it's about sort of the legacies of american slavery sort of the legacies of american slavery sort of the legacies of american slavery that he can see when he travels around that he can see when he travels around that he can see when he travels around and he goes and he goes and he goes to thomas jefferson's home to thomas jefferson's home to thomas jefferson's home and engages with some tourists who are and engages with some tourists who are and engages with some tourists who are there going through a tour afterwards there going through a tour afterwards there going through a tour afterwards who were surprised to find out you know who were surprised to find out you know who were surprised to find out you know about jefferson's slave past and all about jefferson's slave past and all about jefferson's slave past and all that and that and that and smith has a very interesting smith has a very interesting smith has a very interesting line where because all of us who are line where because all of us who are line where because all of us who are thomas jefferson fans and if you like thomas jefferson fans and if you like thomas jefferson fans and if you like the idea that all men are created equal the idea that all men are created equal the idea that all men are created equal you know the the declaration of you know the the declaration of you know the the declaration of independent stuff i mean all of that is independent stuff i mean all of that is independent stuff i mean all of that is jefferson and jeffersonian jefferson and jeffersonian jefferson and jeffersonian and yet the guy is almost like and yet the guy is almost like and yet the guy is almost like a a a metaphor for the country as a whole and metaphor for the country as a whole and metaphor for the country as a whole and the weird sort of dichotomy that the the weird sort of dichotomy that the the weird sort of dichotomy that the united states is because he is at once united states is because he is at once united states is because he is at once this great proponent of liberty and this great proponent of liberty and this great proponent of liberty and freedom and all men are created equal freedom and all men are created equal freedom and all men are created equal who was also a slave owner and who was who was also a slave owner and who was who was also a slave owner and who was an intelligent enough and self-aware an intelligent enough and self-aware an intelligent enough and self-aware enough individual to realize that this enough individual to realize that this enough individual to realize that this is a contradiction is a contradiction is a contradiction and smith writes quote

and smith writes quote and smith writes quote what's fascinating about jefferson is what's fascinating about jefferson is what's fascinating about jefferson is that this is a flaw of which he was that this is a flaw of which he was that this is a flaw of which he was wholly cognizant in notes on the state wholly cognizant in notes on the state wholly cognizant in notes on the state of virginia he wrote quote these are of virginia he wrote quote these are of virginia he wrote quote these are jefferson's words jefferson's words jefferson's words there must doubtless be an unhappy there must doubtless be an unhappy there must doubtless be an unhappy influence on the manners of our people influence on the manners of our people influence on the manners of our people produced by the existence of slavery produced by the existence of slavery produced by the existence of slavery among us among us among us the whole commerce between master and the whole commerce between master and the whole commerce between master and slave is a perpetual exercise of the slave is a perpetual exercise of the slave is a perpetual exercise of the most boisterous passions the most most boisterous passions the most most boisterous passions the most unremitting despotism on the one part unremitting despotism on the one part unremitting despotism on the one part and degrading submission on the other and degrading submission on the other and degrading submission on the other our children see this he writes and our children see this he writes and our children see this he writes and learn to imitate it for man is an learn to imitate it for man is an learn to imitate it for man is an imitative animal imitative animal imitative animal the parent storms the child looks on the parent storms the child looks on the parent storms the child looks on catches the liniments of wrath puts on catches the liniments of wrath puts on catches the liniments of wrath puts on the same heirs in the circle of smaller the same heirs in the circle of smaller the same heirs in the circle of smaller slaves slaves slaves gives a loose to his worst of passions gives a loose to his worst of passions gives a loose to his worst of passions and thus nursed educated and daily and thus nursed educated and daily and thus nursed educated and daily exercised in tyranny cannot but be exercised in tyranny cannot but be exercised in tyranny cannot but be stamped by it with odious peculiarities stamped by it with odious peculiarities stamped by it with odious peculiarities the man must be a prodigy he writes who the man must be a prodigy he writes who the man must be a prodigy he writes who can retain his manners and morals can retain his manners and morals can retain his manners and morals undepraved by such circumstances undepraved by such circumstances undepraved by such circumstances end quote end quote end quote it's an interesting question to ponder it's an interesting question to ponder it's an interesting question to ponder isn't it the effect of slavery isn't it the effect of slavery isn't it the effect of slavery upon the slave owning group of people in upon the slave owning group of people in upon the slave owning group of people in the society the society the society jefferson saw the future too jefferson saw the future too jefferson saw the future too he's a very interesting figure he's a very interesting figure he's a very interesting figure he had a line he had a line he had a line in that same document notes on the state in that same document notes on the state in that same document notes on the state of virginia written 1781 1785

of virginia written 1781 1785 of virginia written 1781 1785 in between that area in between that area in between that area that points out that points out that points out that he sees the iniquities that he sees the iniquities that he sees the iniquities involved in slavery and he sees the end involved in slavery and he sees the end involved in slavery and he sees the end of it in the of it in the of it in the distance and he wrote quote distance and he wrote quote distance and he wrote quote for in a warm climate no man will labor for in a warm climate no man will labor for in a warm climate no man will labor for himself who can make another labor for himself who can make another labor for himself who can make another labor for him this is so true that of the for him this is so true that of the for him this is so true that of the proprietors of slaves a very small proprietors of slaves a very small proprietors of slaves a very small proportion indeed or even seen to labor proportion indeed or even seen to labor proportion indeed or even seen to labor and can the liberties of a nation be and can the liberties of a nation be and can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed thought secure when we have removed thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis a conviction in their only firm basis a conviction in their only firm basis a conviction in the minds of the people that these the minds of the people that these the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift of god that they liberties are a gift of god that they liberties are a gift of god that they are not to be violated are not to be violated are not to be violated but with his wrath but with his wrath but with his wrath indeed i tremble for my country when i indeed i tremble for my country when i indeed i tremble for my country when i reflect that god is just that his reflect that god is just that his reflect that god is just that his justice cannot sleep forever that justice cannot sleep forever that justice cannot sleep forever that considering numbers nature and natural considering numbers nature and natural considering numbers nature and natural means only a revolution of the wheel of means only a revolution of the wheel of means only a revolution of the wheel of fortune an exchange of situation is fortune an exchange of situation is fortune an exchange of situation is among possible events among possible events among possible events that it may become probable by that it may become probable by that it may become probable by supernatural interference exclamation supernatural interference exclamation supernatural interference exclamation point point point the almighty has no attribute which can the almighty has no attribute which can the almighty has no attribute which can take sides with us in such a contest take sides with us in such a contest take sides with us in such a contest i think a change already perceptible i think a change already perceptible i think a change already perceptible since the origin of the present since the origin of the present since the origin of the present revolution the spirit of the master is revolution the spirit of the master is revolution the spirit of the master is abating that of the slave rising from abating that of the slave rising from abating that of the slave rising from the dust his condition mollifying the the dust his condition mollifying the the dust his condition mollifying the way i hope preparing under the auspices way i hope preparing under the auspices way i hope preparing under the auspices of heaven for a total emancipation and of heaven for a total emancipation and of heaven for a total emancipation and that this is disposed in the order of

that this is disposed in the order of that this is disposed in the order of events to be with the consent of the events to be with the consent of the events to be with the consent of the masters rather than by their extirpation masters rather than by their extirpation masters rather than by their extirpation end quote end quote end quote jefferson is a man of science jefferson is a man of science jefferson is a man of science and he understood and he understood and he understood the basic ideas of someone like an isaac the basic ideas of someone like an isaac the basic ideas of someone like an isaac newton newton newton and one of newton's laws is that for and one of newton's laws is that for and one of newton's laws is that for every action there is an equal and every action there is an equal and every action there is an equal and opposite reaction and and that most that most that most basic of human emotions revenge basic of human emotions revenge basic of human emotions revenge would seem to be would seem to be would seem to be rather newtonian also wouldn't it rather newtonian also wouldn't it rather newtonian also wouldn't it and if you saw what were being done and if you saw what were being done and if you saw what were being done to these people all the time around you to these people all the time around you to these people all the time around you wouldn't you maybe tremble for your wouldn't you maybe tremble for your wouldn't you maybe tremble for your country when you realize that god is country when you realize that god is country when you realize that god is just just just and wouldn't you worry and wouldn't you worry and wouldn't you worry that if that if that if the masters don't the masters don't the masters don't end this slavery thing end this slavery thing end this slavery thing that the slaves may turn around and make that the slaves may turn around and make that the slaves may turn around and make them them them what if slavery in the united states what if slavery in the united states what if slavery in the united states did not end the way it did although it did not end the way it did although it did not end the way it did although it ended with the civil war so maybe that's ended with the civil war so maybe that's ended with the civil war so maybe that's jefferson's worst case scenario but what jefferson's worst case scenario but what jefferson's worst case scenario but what if instead of the civil war and the if instead of the civil war and the if instead of the civil war and the emancipation proclamation ending slavery emancipation proclamation ending slavery emancipation proclamation ending slavery the way it did the way it did the way it did what if that never happened what if that never happened what if that never happened we can presume as jefferson does there we can presume as jefferson does there we can presume as jefferson does there that at some point it goes away but how that at some point it goes away but how that at some point it goes away but how does that happen does that happen does that happen without the civil war and the without the civil war and the without the civil war and the emancipation proclamation i mean does it emancipation proclamation i mean does it emancipation proclamation i mean does it go out go out go out with a whimper

with a whimper with a whimper or does it go out with a bang or does it go out with a bang or does it go out with a bang and if you see something like that in and if you see something like that in and if you see something like that in the future the same way jefferson says the future the same way jefferson says the future the same way jefferson says he did right there what would you do to he did right there what would you do to he did right there what would you do to ward it off ward it off ward it off there's a very interesting there's a very interesting there's a very interesting debate that happens in the united states debate that happens in the united states debate that happens in the united states senate in 18 the year 1800 and and many senate in 18 the year 1800 and and many senate in 18 the year 1800 and and many of the people in of the people in of the people in um it's actually the congress not the um it's actually the congress not the um it's actually the congress not the center but many of this the people in center but many of this the people in center but many of this the people in congress at that time period these are congress at that time period these are congress at that time period these are original representatives because the original representatives because the original representatives because the constitution only becomes the law of the constitution only becomes the law of the constitution only becomes the law of the land in 1787 land in 1787 land in 1787 and they're having a debate over uh one and they're having a debate over uh one and they're having a debate over uh one of the many slave laws that was around of the many slave laws that was around of the many slave laws that was around um um um and and and one of the representatives a guy named one of the representatives a guy named one of the representatives a guy named george thatcher who's from maine but at george thatcher who's from maine but at george thatcher who's from maine but at the time he's representing massachusetts the time he's representing massachusetts the time he's representing massachusetts he get it gets up there and you can go he get it gets up there and you can go he get it gets up there and you can go read this in the congressional record read this in the congressional record read this in the congressional record and he talks about and he talks about and he talks about essentially disarming this hand grenade essentially disarming this hand grenade essentially disarming this hand grenade that the country was born with right that the country was born with right that the country was born with right slavery is a pre-existing condition in slavery is a pre-existing condition in slavery is a pre-existing condition in the united states right um been here for the united states right um been here for the united states right um been here for hundreds of years by the time the united hundreds of years by the time the united hundreds of years by the time the united states is formed states is formed states is formed and as part of the deal and as part of the deal and as part of the deal for all these states to join together for all these states to join together for all these states to join together right because it was a kind of a deal right because it was a kind of a deal right because it was a kind of a deal there were a lot of slavery uh dependent there were a lot of slavery uh dependent there were a lot of slavery uh dependent states that made this a condition for states that made this a condition for states that made this a condition for entry so if you're going to talk about entry so if you're going to talk about entry so if you're going to talk about getting rid of slavery we're not even getting rid of slavery we're not even getting rid of slavery we're not even going to be involved in fact we don't going to be involved in fact we don't going to be involved in fact we don't even consider that to be something the even consider that to be something the even consider that to be something the federal government has a role in talking federal government has a role in talking federal government has a role in talking about and this debate in 1800 was was a about and this debate in 1800 was was a about and this debate in 1800 was was a little over that where the guys like little over that where the guys like little over that where the guys like george thatcher who was sort of an early george thatcher who was sort of an early george thatcher who was sort of an early abolitionist saying yes the federal abolitionist saying yes the federal abolitionist saying yes the federal government does have a role in this

government does have a role in this government does have a role in this slavery question because it's a slavery question because it's a slavery question because it's a political evil and they were debating political evil and they were debating political evil and they were debating over things like is it a political evil over things like is it a political evil over things like is it a political evil is it a moral evil is it a moral evil is it a moral evil and i went out and got a hold of a book and i went out and got a hold of a book and i went out and got a hold of a book written in the south right the written in the south right the written in the south right the university of north carolina in 1935 so university of north carolina in 1935 so university of north carolina in 1935 so i wanted to get away remember i was i wanted to get away remember i was i wanted to get away remember i was going to be very careful about sources i going to be very careful about sources i going to be very careful about sources i wanted to be very careful about getting wanted to be very careful about getting wanted to be very careful about getting things that seemed things that seemed things that seemed acceptable to everyone and it's written acceptable to everyone and it's written acceptable to everyone and it's written by a professor at north carolina i by a professor at north carolina i by a professor at north carolina i believe he was william sumner jenkins believe he was william sumner jenkins believe he was william sumner jenkins and the book is called pro-slavery and the book is called pro-slavery and the book is called pro-slavery thought in the old south and he talks thought in the old south and he talks thought in the old south and he talks about this about this about this sort of back and forth between a very sort of back and forth between a very sort of back and forth between a very early sort of american abolitionist early sort of american abolitionist early sort of american abolitionist representative and someone from georgia representative and someone from georgia representative and someone from georgia named james jones named james jones named james jones and and and basically what's being argued about here basically what's being argued about here basically what's being argued about here is is is george thatcher is saying either we get george thatcher is saying either we get george thatcher is saying either we get a handle on this hand grenade or it's a handle on this hand grenade or it's a handle on this hand grenade or it's going to explode and blow us all up going to explode and blow us all up going to explode and blow us all up and jones from georgia james jones he and jones from georgia james jones he and jones from georgia james jones he doesn't disagree with him but he doesn't disagree with him but he doesn't disagree with him but he disagrees with the whole premise of disagrees with the whole premise of disagrees with the whole premise of everything else everything else everything else and william sumner jenkins writes quote and william sumner jenkins writes quote and william sumner jenkins writes quote at the turn of the century from 1799 to at the turn of the century from 1799 to at the turn of the century from 1799 to 1800 sparring again took place in 1800 sparring again took place in 1800 sparring again took place in congress on the slavery issue congress on the slavery issue congress on the slavery issue thatcher of massachusetts asserted that thatcher of massachusetts asserted that thatcher of massachusetts asserted that congress had the power to legislate on congress had the power to legislate on congress had the power to legislate on the subject because slavery was a the subject because slavery was a the subject because slavery was a political evil end quote now using a political evil end quote now using a political evil end quote now using a term that the romans term that the romans term that the romans also used that slaves were enemies right also used that slaves were enemies right also used that slaves were enemies right there were enemies within jenkins there were enemies within jenkins there were enemies within jenkins continues quote he meaning thatcher continues quote he meaning thatcher continues quote he meaning thatcher declared the seven hundred thousand

declared the seven hundred thousand declared the seven hundred thousand slaves were public enemies and now slaves were public enemies and now slaves were public enemies and now quoting thatcher quote a greater evil quoting thatcher quote a greater evil quoting thatcher quote a greater evil than the very principle could not exist than the very principle could not exist than the very principle could not exist it was a cancer of immense magnitude it was a cancer of immense magnitude it was a cancer of immense magnitude that would sometimes destroy the body that would sometimes destroy the body that would sometimes destroy the body politic except a proper legislation politic except a proper legislation politic except a proper legislation should prevent the evil should prevent the evil should prevent the evil end quote end quote end quote so he's saying either we write the right so he's saying either we write the right so he's saying either we write the right laws to have a soft landing from this laws to have a soft landing from this laws to have a soft landing from this you know disarm this hand grenade or it you know disarm this hand grenade or it you know disarm this hand grenade or it blows up and kills everybody and the blows up and kills everybody and the blows up and kills everybody and the representative from georgia disagrees representative from georgia disagrees representative from georgia disagrees with him that slavery is even a bad with him that slavery is even a bad with him that slavery is even a bad thing and then says if these people are thing and then says if these people are thing and then says if these people are public enemies why on earth would you public enemies why on earth would you public enemies why on earth would you let them go let them go let them go james jones of georgia replies to james jones of georgia replies to james jones of georgia replies to thatcher of massachusetts by saying thatcher of massachusetts by saying thatcher of massachusetts by saying quote the gentleman farther says that quote the gentleman farther says that quote the gentleman farther says that seven hundred thousand men are in seven hundred thousand men are in seven hundred thousand men are in bondage i asked him how he would remedy bondage i asked him how he would remedy bondage i asked him how he would remedy this evil as he calls it but i do not this evil as he calls it but i do not this evil as he calls it but i do not think it is an evil would he have these think it is an evil would he have these think it is an evil would he have these people turned out in the united states people turned out in the united states people turned out in the united states to ravage murder and commit every to ravage murder and commit every to ravage murder and commit every species of crimes species of crimes species of crimes i believe it might have been happy for i believe it might have been happy for i believe it might have been happy for the united states if these people had the united states if these people had the united states if these people had never been introduced amongst us but i never been introduced amongst us but i never been introduced amongst us but i do believe they've immensely benefited do believe they've immensely benefited do believe they've immensely benefited by coming amongst us by coming amongst us by coming amongst us end quote end quote end quote so he's basically saying so he's basically saying so he's basically saying uh this was a pre-existing condition uh this was a pre-existing condition uh this was a pre-existing condition might have been better had they never might have been better had they never might have been better had they never been here but been here but been here but thanks you know to god on their part thanks you know to god on their part thanks you know to god on their part that they were because they've benefited that they were because they've benefited that they were because they've benefited immensely i mean that's pretty cheeky immensely i mean that's pretty cheeky immensely i mean that's pretty cheeky right they're so lucky they ran into us right they're so lucky they ran into us right they're so lucky they ran into us so they could be our slaves and we could so they could be our slaves and we could so they could be our slaves and we could civilize them civilize them civilize them although humankind has a long history of

although humankind has a long history of although humankind has a long history of that rationale being employed doesn't it that rationale being employed doesn't it that rationale being employed doesn't it but what both these men are seeing is a but what both these men are seeing is a but what both these men are seeing is a disaster in the future they just have disaster in the future they just have disaster in the future they just have different sorts of attitudes about the different sorts of attitudes about the different sorts of attitudes about the best way to handle that best way to handle that best way to handle that but knowing but knowing but knowing that for every action there's an equal that for every action there's an equal that for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction and opposite reaction and opposite reaction would you be okay sleeping on a would you be okay sleeping on a would you be okay sleeping on a plantation with slave labor plantation with slave labor plantation with slave labor yourself yourself yourself would you feel safe doing that there's a would you feel safe doing that there's a would you feel safe doing that there's a much much much used quote from a woman who's she was used quote from a woman who's she was used quote from a woman who's she was anti-slavery but i think she married anti-slavery but i think she married anti-slavery but i think she married into a pro-slavery family or whatever um into a pro-slavery family or whatever um into a pro-slavery family or whatever um she was an actress named fanny kemble she was an actress named fanny kemble she was an actress named fanny kemble and in the 1800s she's had to sleep on and in the 1800s she's had to sleep on and in the 1800s she's had to sleep on this this this at this plantation in this town it was at this plantation in this town it was at this plantation in this town it was charleston i believe and she pointed out charleston i believe and she pointed out charleston i believe and she pointed out that the town itself we had said that that the town itself we had said that that the town itself we had said that you have to have sort of a a system of you have to have sort of a a system of you have to have sort of a a system of violence in place a system to keep these violence in place a system to keep these violence in place a system to keep these public enemies these enemies within public enemies these enemies within public enemies these enemies within under control and she talks about that under control and she talks about that under control and she talks about that and then talks about how and then talks about how and then talks about how weird it is to think that you have these weird it is to think that you have these weird it is to think that you have these enemies within but they're within your enemies within but they're within your enemies within but they're within your house and she wrote in her diary i house and she wrote in her diary i house and she wrote in her diary i believe it was quote believe it was quote believe it was quote a most ominous tolling of bells and a most ominous tolling of bells and a most ominous tolling of bells and beating of drums of the first evening of beating of drums of the first evening of beating of drums of the first evening of my arrival in charleston made me almost my arrival in charleston made me almost my arrival in charleston made me almost fancy myself in one of those old fancy myself in one of those old fancy myself in one of those old fortified frontier towns of the fortified frontier towns of the fortified frontier towns of the continent meaning europe where the toxin continent meaning europe where the toxin continent meaning europe where the toxin is sounded and the evening drum beaten is sounded and the evening drum beaten is sounded and the evening drum beaten and the guards set as regularly every and the guards set as regularly every and the guards set as regularly every night as if invasion were expected in

night as if invasion were expected in night as if invasion were expected in charleston however she writes it is not charleston however she writes it is not charleston however she writes it is not the dread of foreign invasion but of the dread of foreign invasion but of the dread of foreign invasion but of domestic insurrection which occasions domestic insurrection which occasions domestic insurrection which occasions these nightly precautions these nightly precautions these nightly precautions of course she writes it is very of course she writes it is very of course she writes it is very necessary where a large class of persons necessary where a large class of persons necessary where a large class of persons exists in the very bosom of a community exists in the very bosom of a community exists in the very bosom of a community whose interests are known to be at whose interests are known to be at whose interests are known to be at variance and incompatible with those of variance and incompatible with those of variance and incompatible with those of its other members and no doubt these its other members and no doubt these its other members and no doubt these daily and nightly precautions are but daily and nightly precautions are but daily and nightly precautions are but trifling drawbacks upon the manifold trifling drawbacks upon the manifold trifling drawbacks upon the manifold blessings of slavery blessings of slavery blessings of slavery still she writes i should prefer going still she writes i should prefer going still she writes i should prefer going to sleep without the apprehension of my to sleep without the apprehension of my to sleep without the apprehension of my servants cutting my throat in my bed servants cutting my throat in my bed servants cutting my throat in my bed even to having a guard provided to even to having a guard provided to even to having a guard provided to prevent their doing so prevent their doing so prevent their doing so end quote end quote end quote there's a there's a there's a primary source primary source primary source letter i believe it was that's recounted letter i believe it was that's recounted letter i believe it was that's recounted in in in melcher's book slavery world history uh melcher's book slavery world history uh melcher's book slavery world history uh and it's from a french family and it's from a french family and it's from a french family that is living in that is living in that is living in haiti i believe it is um and it's just haiti i believe it is um and it's just haiti i believe it is um and it's just the family right there's nobody else but the family right there's nobody else but the family right there's nobody else but the mom the dad the kids the mom the dad the kids the mom the dad the kids and there's five of them and there's five of them and there's five of them and they live with 200 and they live with 200 and they live with 200 slaves africans or african descendants slaves africans or african descendants slaves africans or african descendants meltzer says that the french meltzer says that the french meltzer says that the french colonists in haiti colonists in haiti colonists in haiti that they didn't like it that they didn't like it that they didn't like it and and and expressing expressing expressing you know how they feel and i just want you know how they feel and i just want you know how they feel and i just want to point out if you're scared of your to point out if you're scared of your to point out if you're scared of your slaves because you understand that slaves because you understand that slaves because you understand that things have been done to them that would

things have been done to them that would things have been done to them that would give them grievances how much more give them grievances how much more give them grievances how much more scared are you going to be with a ratio scared are you going to be with a ratio scared are you going to be with a ratio of 200 to 5 of 200 to 5 of 200 to 5 and by the way note that this slave and by the way note that this slave and by the way note that this slave holding family is asking for pity holding family is asking for pity holding family is asking for pity because they're stuck with all these because they're stuck with all these because they're stuck with all these slaves that they own quote slaves that they own quote slaves that they own quote have pity for an existence which must be have pity for an existence which must be have pity for an existence which must be eked out far from the world of our own eked out far from the world of our own eked out far from the world of our own people we hear number five whites my people we hear number five whites my people we hear number five whites my father my mother my two brothers and father my mother my two brothers and father my mother my two brothers and myself surrounded by more than two myself surrounded by more than two myself surrounded by more than two hundred slaves the number of our negroes hundred slaves the number of our negroes hundred slaves the number of our negroes who are domestics alone coming almost to who are domestics alone coming almost to who are domestics alone coming almost to 30. 30. 30. from morning to night wherever we turn from morning to night wherever we turn from morning to night wherever we turn their faces meet our eyes no matter how their faces meet our eyes no matter how their faces meet our eyes no matter how early we awaken they are at our bedsides early we awaken they are at our bedsides early we awaken they are at our bedsides and the custom which obtains here not to and the custom which obtains here not to and the custom which obtains here not to make the least move without the help of make the least move without the help of make the least move without the help of one of these negro servants brings it one of these negro servants brings it one of these negro servants brings it about about about not only that we live in their society not only that we live in their society not only that we live in their society the greater portion of the day but also the greater portion of the day but also the greater portion of the day but also that they are involved in the least that they are involved in the least that they are involved in the least important events of our daily life important events of our daily life important events of our daily life should we go outside our house to the should we go outside our house to the should we go outside our house to the workshops we are still subject to this workshops we are still subject to this workshops we are still subject to this strange pro-pinquity strange pro-pinquity strange pro-pinquity add to this the fact that our add to this the fact that our add to this the fact that our conversation has almost entirely to do conversation has almost entirely to do conversation has almost entirely to do with the health of our slaves their with the health of our slaves their with the health of our slaves their needs which must be cared for the manner needs which must be cared for the manner needs which must be cared for the manner in which they are to be distributed in which they are to be distributed in which they are to be distributed about the estate and their attempts to about the estate and their attempts to about the estate and their attempts to revolt and you will come to understand revolt and you will come to understand revolt and you will come to understand that our entire life is so closely that our entire life is so closely that our entire life is so closely identified with that of these identified with that of these identified with that of these unfortunates that in the end unfortunates that in the end unfortunates that in the end it is the same as theirs and despite it is the same as theirs and despite it is the same as theirs and despite whatever pleasure may come from that

whatever pleasure may come from that whatever pleasure may come from that almost complete dominance which has almost complete dominance which has almost complete dominance which has given us to exercise over them given us to exercise over them given us to exercise over them what regrets do not assail us daily what regrets do not assail us daily what regrets do not assail us daily because of our inability to have contact because of our inability to have contact because of our inability to have contact and correspondence with others than and correspondence with others than and correspondence with others than these unfortunates so far removed from these unfortunates so far removed from these unfortunates so far removed from us in point of view customs and us in point of view customs and us in point of view customs and education education education end quote end quote end quote david breon davis has this great david breon davis has this great david breon davis has this great question it's just the kind of questions question it's just the kind of questions question it's just the kind of questions that we would ask too that we would ask too that we would ask too where he asks where he asks where he asks and he says no matter what your skill and he says no matter what your skill and he says no matter what your skill set set set or your or your or your training he says can you imagine trying training he says can you imagine trying training he says can you imagine trying to be the person whose job it is to keep to be the person whose job it is to keep to be the person whose job it is to keep 150 or he says even 50 150 or he says even 50 150 or he says even 50 slaves in line slaves in line slaves in line make sure they work all the time at make sure they work all the time at make sure they work all the time at maximum speed punish them for any um maximum speed punish them for any um maximum speed punish them for any um getting out of line he then goes on to tell a story about he then goes on to tell a story about his own time many years ago in the navy his own time many years ago in the navy his own time many years ago in the navy being intimidated by a bunch of african being intimidated by a bunch of african being intimidated by a bunch of african american sailors that as an 18 year old american sailors that as an 18 year old american sailors that as an 18 year old he'd been told to go order around he'd been told to go order around he'd been told to go order around not so easy to do necessarily and not so easy to do necessarily and not so easy to do necessarily and the job requires the sort of treatment the job requires the sort of treatment the job requires the sort of treatment of people that today we would think only of people that today we would think only of people that today we would think only some sort of sociopath would be willing some sort of sociopath would be willing some sort of sociopath would be willing to do and yet it was common this does to do and yet it was common this does to do and yet it was common this does sort of hearken back to the thomas sort of hearken back to the thomas sort of hearken back to the thomas jefferson idea that it somehow jefferson idea that it somehow jefferson idea that it somehow coarsens society because it would be

coarsens society because it would be coarsens society because it would be difficult for us to imagine a person difficult for us to imagine a person difficult for us to imagine a person that would be comfortable that would be comfortable that would be comfortable meeting out the sort of punishment that meeting out the sort of punishment that meeting out the sort of punishment that was absolutely common and ubiquitous in was absolutely common and ubiquitous in was absolutely common and ubiquitous in the slave societies could you beat a the slave societies could you beat a the slave societies could you beat a person with a whip person with a whip person with a whip could you do it for a half hour could could you do it for a half hour could could you do it for a half hour could you do it with them screaming the whole you do it with them screaming the whole you do it with them screaming the whole time could you do it to a if you're a if time could you do it to a if you're a if time could you do it to a if you're a if you're a guy could you do it to a to a you're a guy could you do it to a to a you're a guy could you do it to a to a female female female if you're a female could you do it to a if you're a female could you do it to a if you're a female could you do it to a child i mean you see what i'm saying child i mean you see what i'm saying child i mean you see what i'm saying here frederick douglass has one of here frederick douglass has one of here frederick douglass has one of those um you know and he's he's a great those um you know and he's he's a great those um you know and he's he's a great eyewitness for some of these things eyewitness for some of these things eyewitness for some of these things because because because he's so good at telling you he's so good at telling you he's so good at telling you how it made him feel how it made him feel how it made him feel and watching somebody and watching somebody and watching somebody it could be i mean again imagine it could be i mean again imagine it could be i mean again imagine watching this happen to a total stranger watching this happen to a total stranger watching this happen to a total stranger okay could you go do that today watch okay could you go do that today watch okay could you go do that today watch somebody being beaten with a whip somebody being beaten with a whip somebody being beaten with a whip for a half hour could you watch that for a half hour could you watch that for a half hour could you watch that okay now imagine it's not a total okay now imagine it's not a total okay now imagine it's not a total stranger it's your daughter stranger it's your daughter stranger it's your daughter or your spouse or your parent you see or your spouse or your parent you see or your spouse or your parent you see what i'm saying here because that's what what i'm saying here because that's what what i'm saying here because that's what it was for douglas it was for douglas it was for douglas and you had no choice you got to watch and you had no choice you got to watch and you had no choice you got to watch this and stand there bawling up your this and stand there bawling up your this and stand there bawling up your fists clenching and unclenching fists clenching and unclenching fists clenching and unclenching clenching your jaw looking at everyone clenching your jaw looking at everyone clenching your jaw looking at everyone else as you all watch this scene else as you all watch this scene else as you all watch this scene together and letting the thoughts run together and letting the thoughts run together and letting the thoughts run through your head i mean what can you through your head i mean what can you through your head i mean what can you imagine what would be running through imagine what would be running through imagine what would be running through your head your head your head if somebody's beating my spouse or if somebody's beating my spouse or if somebody's beating my spouse or daughter i'm thinking that this is so daughter i'm thinking that this is so daughter i'm thinking that this is so intolerable intolerable intolerable i'm just going to kill them now and live i'm just going to kill them now and live i'm just going to kill them now and live with the consequences with the consequences with the consequences and i read story after story of how

and i read story after story of how and i read story after story of how these overseers deal with those sorts of these overseers deal with those sorts of these overseers deal with those sorts of situations because these sorts of uh situations because these sorts of uh situations because these sorts of uh incidents where somebody's gotten pushed incidents where somebody's gotten pushed incidents where somebody's gotten pushed too far and most of the time it's not an too far and most of the time it's not an too far and most of the time it's not an attack the the establishment sort of attack the the establishment sort of attack the the establishment sort of thing it's it's non-compliance thing it's it's non-compliance thing it's it's non-compliance and the stories often have these and the stories often have these and the stories often have these overseers that they'll ask three times overseers that they'll ask three times overseers that they'll ask three times and then they just shoot you in front of and then they just shoot you in front of and then they just shoot you in front of everyone else and they have to everyone else and they have to everyone else and they have to to maintain control of everyone else to maintain control of everyone else to maintain control of everyone else frederick douglass was asked once in a frederick douglass was asked once in a frederick douglass was asked once in a crowd of um crowd of um crowd of um fans of his who were white folks but who fans of his who were white folks but who fans of his who were white folks but who didn't understand how these revolutions didn't understand how these revolutions didn't understand how these revolutions didn't happen we wouldn't take them why didn't happen we wouldn't take them why didn't happen we wouldn't take them why did you just overthrow these people you did you just overthrow these people you did you just overthrow these people you outnumbered them and douglas was trying outnumbered them and douglas was trying outnumbered them and douglas was trying to find to find to find how he could explain to these people how he could explain to these people how he could explain to these people that did not grow up under slavery that did not grow up under slavery that did not grow up under slavery how how how that sounds so easy to them but they that sounds so easy to them but they that sounds so easy to them but they don't understand don't understand don't understand i mean imagine being in douglas a i mean imagine being in douglas a i mean imagine being in douglas a situation when he sees his situation when he sees his situation when he sees his aunt aunt aunt whipped by the master this isn't even whipped by the master this isn't even whipped by the master this isn't even the overseer because he was saying the the overseer because he was saying the the overseer because he was saying the overseer was an absolute sociopath but overseer was an absolute sociopath but overseer was an absolute sociopath but but he says that the master was but he says that the master was but he says that the master was was not particularly wonderful either was not particularly wonderful either was not particularly wonderful either even if he wasn't a sociopath and this even if he wasn't a sociopath and this even if he wasn't a sociopath and this is what makes me wonder about how many is what makes me wonder about how many is what makes me wonder about how many people could do this today people could do this today people could do this today this guy was not this guy was not this guy was not unusual and this is what he did as unusual and this is what he did as unusual and this is what he did as frederick douglass and everyone else frederick douglass and everyone else frederick douglass and everyone else around him had to watch around him had to watch around him had to watch douglas writes quote douglas writes quote douglas writes quote i have often been awakened at the dawn i have often been awakened at the dawn i have often been awakened at the dawn of day by the most heart-rending shrieks of day by the most heart-rending shrieks of day by the most heart-rending shrieks of an own ant of mine whom he the master

of an own ant of mine whom he the master of an own ant of mine whom he the master used to tie up to a joist and whip upon used to tie up to a joist and whip upon used to tie up to a joist and whip upon her naked back till she was literally her naked back till she was literally her naked back till she was literally covered with blood covered with blood covered with blood no words no tears no prayers from his no words no tears no prayers from his no words no tears no prayers from his gory victim seemed to move his iron gory victim seemed to move his iron gory victim seemed to move his iron heart from its bloody purpose the louder heart from its bloody purpose the louder heart from its bloody purpose the louder she screamed the harder he whipped and she screamed the harder he whipped and she screamed the harder he whipped and where the blood ran fastest there he where the blood ran fastest there he where the blood ran fastest there he whipped longest whipped longest whipped longest he would whip her to make her scream and he would whip her to make her scream and he would whip her to make her scream and whip her to make her hush and not until whip her to make her hush and not until whip her to make her hush and not until overcome by fatigue would he cease to overcome by fatigue would he cease to overcome by fatigue would he cease to swing the blood-clotted cow skin swing the blood-clotted cow skin swing the blood-clotted cow skin i remember he says the first time i ever i remember he says the first time i ever i remember he says the first time i ever witnessed this horrible exhibition i was witnessed this horrible exhibition i was witnessed this horrible exhibition i was quite a child but i well remember it i quite a child but i well remember it i quite a child but i well remember it i shall never forget it wilt i remember shall never forget it wilt i remember shall never forget it wilt i remember anything it was the first of a long anything it was the first of a long anything it was the first of a long series of such outrages of which i was series of such outrages of which i was series of such outrages of which i was doomed to be a witness and a participant doomed to be a witness and a participant doomed to be a witness and a participant it struck me with awful force it was the it struck me with awful force it was the it struck me with awful force it was the blood-stained gate the entrance to the blood-stained gate the entrance to the blood-stained gate the entrance to the hell of slavery through which i was hell of slavery through which i was hell of slavery through which i was about to pass about to pass about to pass it was a most terrible spectacle i wish it was a most terrible spectacle i wish it was a most terrible spectacle i wish i could commit to paper the feeling with i could commit to paper the feeling with i could commit to paper the feeling with which i beheld it which i beheld it which i beheld it end quote wanting to kill the person doing it wanting to kill the person doing it is not an unusual feeling there was a is not an unusual feeling there was a is not an unusual feeling there was a wonderful book called voices from wonderful book called voices from wonderful book called voices from slavery and it's one of several that's slavery and it's one of several that's slavery and it's one of several that's been produced been produced been produced with um with um with um original primary source remembrances of original primary source remembrances of original primary source remembrances of slaves so during the great depression

slaves so during the great depression slaves so during the great depression there was a some people would call it a there was a some people would call it a there was a some people would call it a make work program but it shows you how a make work program but it shows you how a make work program but it shows you how a make work program during you know a make work program during you know a make work program during you know a terrible economic crisis can end up terrible economic crisis can end up terrible economic crisis can end up benefiting all of us because uh these benefiting all of us because uh these benefiting all of us because uh these people that were hired by the government people that were hired by the government people that were hired by the government went around and got all of these went around and got all of these went around and got all of these surviving slaves to surviving slaves to surviving slaves to tell some stories that they could put in tell some stories that they could put in tell some stories that they could put in the archives so they'd be available for the archives so they'd be available for the archives so they'd be available for all of us today now they come with all all of us today now they come with all all of us today now they come with all of the problems that firsthand accounts of the problems that firsthand accounts of the problems that firsthand accounts that are that are given you know decades that are that are given you know decades that are that are given you know decades after the events always have but they're after the events always have but they're after the events always have but they're still priceless still priceless still priceless and i was reading one where and i was reading one where and i was reading one where the slave that was being interviewed he the slave that was being interviewed he the slave that was being interviewed he was 87 years old at the time and this was 87 years old at the time and this was 87 years old at the time and this was the 1930s i think where he was being was the 1930s i think where he was being was the 1930s i think where he was being interviewed he talked about watching a interviewed he talked about watching a interviewed he talked about watching a relative who was nine months pregnant uh relative who was nine months pregnant uh relative who was nine months pregnant uh being beaten by the overseer and the being beaten by the overseer and the being beaten by the overseer and the overseer dug a special hole for her overseer dug a special hole for her overseer dug a special hole for her stomach to fit in so she could lay down stomach to fit in so she could lay down stomach to fit in so she could lay down and have a place for the stomach while and have a place for the stomach while and have a place for the stomach while he hit her with a whip he hit her with a whip he hit her with a whip for a half hour for a half hour for a half hour and she ended up giving birth during the and she ended up giving birth during the and she ended up giving birth during the process and he said this the ex-slave process and he said this the ex-slave process and he said this the ex-slave had said had said had said that he wanted to he was wanted to hunt that he wanted to he was wanted to hunt that he wanted to he was wanted to hunt the man down and kill him the man down and kill him the man down and kill him on the overseer just to show you how on the overseer just to show you how on the overseer just to show you how complicated these stories are in real complicated these stories are in real complicated these stories are in real life as opposed to the two-dimensional life as opposed to the two-dimensional life as opposed to the two-dimensional way we simplify them for history writing way we simplify them for history writing way we simplify them for history writing the overseer who did this that the the overseer who did this that the the overseer who did this that the ex-slave wanted to kill was himself ex-slave wanted to kill was himself ex-slave wanted to kill was himself black in our little mental experiment to try in our little mental experiment to try to to to view things from all sides the roshaman view things from all sides the roshaman view things from all sides the roshaman approach hard enough to view it from the approach hard enough to view it from the approach hard enough to view it from the side of the

side of the side of the overseer you know lashing the poor black overseer you know lashing the poor black overseer you know lashing the poor black slave to begin with isn't it slave to begin with isn't it slave to begin with isn't it now try the mind now try the mind now try the mind flip that it's going to be if you happen flip that it's going to be if you happen flip that it's going to be if you happen to be a black person and a slave perhaps to be a black person and a slave perhaps to be a black person and a slave perhaps too right beating another person of your too right beating another person of your too right beating another person of your own color in your own standing for the own color in your own standing for the own color in your own standing for the person that owns you both i mean person that owns you both i mean person that owns you both i mean wow wow wow that is so wrong and yet the question that is so wrong and yet the question that is so wrong and yet the question that is so intriguing that is so intriguing that is so intriguing in this story that actually pushed me in this story that actually pushed me in this story that actually pushed me over the edge this time to finally over the edge this time to finally over the edge this time to finally you know brave you know brave you know brave the enormity of the subject matter and the enormity of the subject matter and the enormity of the subject matter and dive in here dive in here dive in here is is is when we decided it was so wrong obviously when these people are being obviously when these people are being whipped uh in these two eyewitness whipped uh in these two eyewitness whipped uh in these two eyewitness accounts that i mentioned this is accounts that i mentioned this is accounts that i mentioned this is between the 1830s and the 1850s between the 1830s and the 1850s between the 1830s and the 1850s it was okay because it happened it was okay because it happened it was okay because it happened but if you'd had done it but if you'd had done it but if you'd had done it 40 or 50 years later it wouldn't have 40 or 50 years later it wouldn't have 40 or 50 years later it wouldn't have been so what's the difference and it been so what's the difference and it been so what's the difference and it brings me back to a phrase and i don't brings me back to a phrase and i don't brings me back to a phrase and i don't remember where i first encountered it remember where i first encountered it remember where i first encountered it but i i ran into it but i i ran into it but i i ran into it about events during the same time period about events during the same time period about events during the same time period where things changed in the slave where things changed in the slave where things changed in the slave outlook let's call it the outlook let's call it the outlook let's call it the um attitudes and it had to do with um attitudes and it had to do with um attitudes and it had to do with public executions which had for public executions which had for public executions which had for several hundred years one might say several hundred years one might say several hundred years one might say forever but specifically for for several forever but specifically for for several forever but specifically for for several hundred years previously been public hundred years previously been public hundred years previously been public spectacles spectacles spectacles of of of intentional torturing and suffering

intentional torturing and suffering intentional torturing and suffering broke people broken on the wheel uh uh broke people broken on the wheel uh uh broke people broken on the wheel uh uh having hot irons um having hot irons um having hot irons um you know stuck on them i mean just you know stuck on them i mean just you know stuck on them i mean just public torturing and and and for public torturing and and and for public torturing and and and for spectacle sport fun entertainment spectacle sport fun entertainment spectacle sport fun entertainment amusement and you know practical lessons amusement and you know practical lessons amusement and you know practical lessons but in the same era but in the same era but in the same era it was dying out and somebody had it was dying out and somebody had it was dying out and somebody had referred to it as part of a revolution referred to it as part of a revolution referred to it as part of a revolution in sensibilities we today might say something like we today might say something like humankind during the humankind during the humankind during the 1700s was developing more of a modern 1700s was developing more of a modern 1700s was developing more of a modern view view view of something like humanity and how one of something like humanity and how one of something like humanity and how one should treat one another but you can see should treat one another but you can see should treat one another but you can see it across a wide range of things and it across a wide range of things and it across a wide range of things and over and over in these stories you will over and over in these stories you will over and over in these stories you will see these historians point out that we see these historians point out that we see these historians point out that we need to take into account when you hear need to take into account when you hear need to take into account when you hear how terribly these slaves were treated how terribly these slaves were treated how terribly these slaves were treated that we shouldn't judge this on the that we shouldn't judge this on the that we shouldn't judge this on the modern scale we should judge it on the modern scale we should judge it on the modern scale we should judge it on the scale of how poor people scale of how poor people scale of how poor people criminals all kinds of different people criminals all kinds of different people criminals all kinds of different people were being treated in these societies were being treated in these societies were being treated in these societies that had nothing to do with slaves or that had nothing to do with slaves or that had nothing to do with slaves or race right so so the benchmark of humane race right so so the benchmark of humane race right so so the benchmark of humane treatment was at a lower level anyway treatment was at a lower level anyway treatment was at a lower level anyway and in the 1700s you can start to see and in the 1700s you can start to see and in the 1700s you can start to see some as i said changes in sensibilities some as i said changes in sensibilities some as i said changes in sensibilities and slavery is one of the main issues and slavery is one of the main issues and slavery is one of the main issues that this becomes that this becomes that this becomes um something that um something that um something that makes i mean the voices that rise up makes i mean the voices that rise up makes i mean the voices that rise up by the late 1700s that are anti-slavery by the late 1700s that are anti-slavery by the late 1700s that are anti-slavery are for all intents and purposes missing are for all intents and purposes missing are for all intents and purposes missing 100 years before 100 years before 100 years before and james wolven in the very first

and james wolven in the very first and james wolven in the very first paragraph of his book explains paragraph of his book explains paragraph of his book explains let's use it again the flipping of the let's use it again the flipping of the let's use it again the flipping of the zeitgeist zeitgeist zeitgeist and how quickly not just and how quickly not just and how quickly not just attitudes but the actual attitudes but the actual attitudes but the actual structure of the world that required structure of the world that required structure of the world that required those attitudes those attitudes those attitudes not to change not to change not to change were forced to change when the attitudes were forced to change when the attitudes were forced to change when the attitudes did and wolven writes quote did and wolven writes quote did and wolven writes quote on the eve of the french revolution all on the eve of the french revolution all on the eve of the french revolution all of europe's major maritime powers and a of europe's major maritime powers and a of europe's major maritime powers and a number of thriving colonies in the number of thriving colonies in the number of thriving colonies in the americas were keen to have a share of americas were keen to have a share of americas were keen to have a share of the transatlantic business of slavery the transatlantic business of slavery the transatlantic business of slavery shipping africans to the americas and shipping africans to the americas and shipping africans to the americas and using them and their offspring to labor using them and their offspring to labor using them and their offspring to labor mainly in agricultural work was a mainly in agricultural work was a mainly in agricultural work was a lucrative concern which no one seemed lucrative concern which no one seemed lucrative concern which no one seemed able to resist able to resist able to resist a century later he writes those same a century later he writes those same a century later he writes those same nations had banned the slave trade had nations had banned the slave trade had nations had banned the slave trade had freed all their former slaves and were freed all their former slaves and were freed all their former slaves and were now vehemently opposed to slavery not now vehemently opposed to slavery not now vehemently opposed to slavery not only was there antipathy expressed in only was there antipathy expressed in only was there antipathy expressed in the upper echelons of power informal the upper echelons of power informal the upper echelons of power informal politics government and diplomacy but it politics government and diplomacy but it politics government and diplomacy but it also caught the imagination of millions also caught the imagination of millions also caught the imagination of millions of ordinary people people who were of ordinary people people who were of ordinary people people who were increasingly well informed via the increasingly well informed via the increasingly well informed via the explosion of literacy and the world of explosion of literacy and the world of explosion of literacy and the world of cheap print cheap print cheap print to make the point more crudely he writes to make the point more crudely he writes to make the point more crudely he writes in the late 18th century most atlantic in the late 18th century most atlantic in the late 18th century most atlantic slave owners and slave traders felt slave owners and slave traders felt slave owners and slave traders felt confident that they could ride out any confident that they could ride out any confident that they could ride out any criticism of slavery by the late 19th criticism of slavery by the late 19th criticism of slavery by the late 19th century they had all vanished and only century they had all vanished and only century they had all vanished and only an eccentric would have felt confident

an eccentric would have felt confident an eccentric would have felt confident to defend slavery publicly in the west to defend slavery publicly in the west to defend slavery publicly in the west end quote i always have to hold back the reigns a i always have to hold back the reigns a little bit when i little bit when i little bit when i find periods in history like this find periods in history like this find periods in history like this because the danger is that you'll fall because the danger is that you'll fall because the danger is that you'll fall into wiggish history thinking w-h-i-g into wiggish history thinking w-h-i-g into wiggish history thinking w-h-i-g uh the more modern academic term would uh the more modern academic term would uh the more modern academic term would be to say that you were thinking in a be to say that you were thinking in a be to say that you were thinking in a teleological sense this idea teleological sense this idea teleological sense this idea that um the best way to describe it is that um the best way to describe it is that um the best way to describe it is that great quote always attributed to that great quote always attributed to that great quote always attributed to martin luther king but i don't think he martin luther king but i don't think he martin luther king but i don't think he was the first to say it that the ark of was the first to say it that the ark of was the first to say it that the ark of the moral universe is long but it bends the moral universe is long but it bends the moral universe is long but it bends towards justice towards justice towards justice that's sort of the wig view of history that's sort of the wig view of history that's sort of the wig view of history that we're making progress and it may be that we're making progress and it may be that we're making progress and it may be you know two steps forward one step back you know two steps forward one step back you know two steps forward one step back bunny hop kind of progress but it's bunny hop kind of progress but it's bunny hop kind of progress but it's moving in a direction that's getting moving in a direction that's getting moving in a direction that's getting more humane you know better for more humane you know better for more humane you know better for everybody more inclusive you know everybody more inclusive you know everybody more inclusive you know whatever you want to say and these days whatever you want to say and these days whatever you want to say and these days most historians don't think that way and most historians don't think that way and most historians don't think that way and it might be a dangerous delusion to it might be a dangerous delusion to it might be a dangerous delusion to think that way because there might be a think that way because there might be a think that way because there might be a little complacency in this idea there's little complacency in this idea there's little complacency in this idea there's don't worry it's all going to work out don't worry it's all going to work out don't worry it's all going to work out the arc of the moral universe bends the arc of the moral universe bends the arc of the moral universe bends towards justice towards justice towards justice you know unless it doesn't you know unless it doesn't you know unless it doesn't also let's not forget also let's not forget also let's not forget that one person's justice could be that one person's justice could be that one person's justice could be another person's manson-like another person's manson-like another person's manson-like murderous atrocity so you never know murderous atrocity so you never know murderous atrocity so you never know with that kind of thing i think the one with that kind of thing i think the one with that kind of thing i think the one aspect of this though that makes me aspect of this though that makes me aspect of this though that makes me come away with a net positive is look at come away with a net positive is look at come away with a net positive is look at what was accomplished look what's what was accomplished look what's what was accomplished look what's possible that's what this history possible that's what this history possible that's what this history experience here teaches us right it experience here teaches us right it experience here teaches us right it doesn't teach lessons it's an example

doesn't teach lessons it's an example doesn't teach lessons it's an example look at how much change towards our look at how much change towards our look at how much change towards our modern point of view would be a good way modern point of view would be a good way modern point of view would be a good way to put it that you see in what amounts to put it that you see in what amounts to put it that you see in what amounts to one long human lifespan here to one long human lifespan here to one long human lifespan here and you know we're not talking about and you know we're not talking about and you know we're not talking about global public opinion deciding they want global public opinion deciding they want global public opinion deciding they want a different sweetener in their tea a different sweetener in their tea a different sweetener in their tea as we've been saying this is the legacy as we've been saying this is the legacy as we've been saying this is the legacy system of all legacy systems it's system of all legacy systems it's system of all legacy systems it's slavery slavery slavery centuries old in the atlantic slave centuries old in the atlantic slave centuries old in the atlantic slave trade form millennia old ancient in the trade form millennia old ancient in the trade form millennia old ancient in the institution form institution form institution form wrapped up in the economies the wrapped up in the economies the wrapped up in the economies the lifestyles the downstream profits of lifestyles the downstream profits of lifestyles the downstream profits of everybody i mean woven into the fabric everybody i mean woven into the fabric everybody i mean woven into the fabric of society entrenched of society entrenched of society entrenched and if they can flip that iceberg and if they can flip that iceberg and if they can flip that iceberg they prove it can be done right that they prove it can be done right that they prove it can be done right that icebergs can be flipped and the reason icebergs can be flipped and the reason icebergs can be flipped and the reason we should take heart is we have a few we should take heart is we have a few we should take heart is we have a few icebergs in our future that may have to icebergs in our future that may have to icebergs in our future that may have to be flipped under similar sorts of be flipped under similar sorts of be flipped under similar sorts of constraints constraints constraints financial institutional woven into the financial institutional woven into the financial institutional woven into the fabric of our society money i read that at the start of the civil i read that at the start of the civil war war war the value of the american slaves in the the value of the american slaves in the the value of the american slaves in the south was estimated to be 48 times the south was estimated to be 48 times the south was estimated to be 48 times the annual spending of the american annual spending of the american annual spending of the american government government government obviously the american government spent obviously the american government spent obviously the american government spent a lot less then but nonetheless that a lot less then but nonetheless that a lot less then but nonetheless that that's a challenge right there if that's a challenge right there if that's a challenge right there if everyone decided overnight everyone decided overnight everyone decided overnight that they had an epiphany in history and that they had an epiphany in history and that they had an epiphany in history and history had shown that slavery was wrong history had shown that slavery was wrong history had shown that slavery was wrong and we're going to get rid of it and we're going to get rid of it and we're going to get rid of it you're still going to have these you're still going to have these you're still going to have these practical matters afterwards about who

practical matters afterwards about who practical matters afterwards about who has to pay has to pay has to pay for this for this for this you know leveling up on the humanitarian you know leveling up on the humanitarian you know leveling up on the humanitarian scale scale scale who gets left holding the bag right when who gets left holding the bag right when who gets left holding the bag right when property turns back into people different countries will have different different countries will have different solutions for that particular problem solutions for that particular problem solutions for that particular problem when they freed their slaves when they freed their slaves when they freed their slaves but the point is is that they worked it but the point is is that they worked it but the point is is that they worked it out now the pessimist on my shoulder out now the pessimist on my shoulder out now the pessimist on my shoulder wants to make sure i i emphasize that wants to make sure i i emphasize that wants to make sure i i emphasize that this was no this was no this was no rainbows and unicorns kumbaya rainbows and unicorns kumbaya rainbows and unicorns kumbaya period in history right when humanity period in history right when humanity period in history right when humanity went from here to there on the slavery went from here to there on the slavery went from here to there on the slavery question i mean it's more like question i mean it's more like question i mean it's more like a birthing thing i mean it's really a birthing thing i mean it's really a birthing thing i mean it's really bloody it's it's transformative and bloody it's it's transformative and bloody it's it's transformative and history when it is transformative history when it is transformative history when it is transformative is often nightmarish i mean you're gonna is often nightmarish i mean you're gonna is often nightmarish i mean you're gonna have multiple revolutions you're going have multiple revolutions you're going have multiple revolutions you're going to have bloody slave revolts you could to have bloody slave revolts you could to have bloody slave revolts you could have reigns of terror civil wars global have reigns of terror civil wars global have reigns of terror civil wars global wars of conquest wars of conquest wars of conquest but you know the but you know the but you know the whig historians amongst my listenership whig historians amongst my listenership whig historians amongst my listenership would say something like what you you would say something like what you you would say something like what you you know that's just the know that's just the know that's just the one step backwards on that bunny hot one step backwards on that bunny hot one step backwards on that bunny hot progress that's just you gotta progress that's just you gotta progress that's just you gotta break a few eggs to make a historical break a few eggs to make a historical break a few eggs to make a historical omelet and just be just be glad you're omelet and just be just be glad you're omelet and just be just be glad you're not one of those eggs yet not one of those eggs yet not one of those eggs yet all of those sorts of events the civil all of those sorts of events the civil all of those sorts of events the civil wars the slave revolts the revolutions wars the slave revolts the revolutions wars the slave revolts the revolutions are going to have profound implications are going to have profound implications are going to have profound implications for the slavery question and in yet another example of how the

and in yet another example of how the pen proves to be mightier than the sword pen proves to be mightier than the sword pen proves to be mightier than the sword or or or at least deadlier in some cases at least deadlier in some cases at least deadlier in some cases you can see that you can see that you can see that so much of what's going on in the 17s so much of what's going on in the 17s so much of what's going on in the 17s 60s 70s i mean this is weaponized 60s 70s i mean this is weaponized 60s 70s i mean this is weaponized philosophy philosophy philosophy this is the age of enlightenment this is the age of enlightenment this is the age of enlightenment thinkers thinkers thinkers having their ideas having their ideas having their ideas um made actionable and you'll see this um made actionable and you'll see this um made actionable and you'll see this in other areas too i mean what is karl in other areas too i mean what is karl in other areas too i mean what is karl marx if not a marx if not a marx if not a weaponized philosophy or maybe weaponized philosophy or maybe weaponized philosophy or maybe weaponized economics weaponized economics weaponized economics these are all thinkers right in these are all thinkers right in these are all thinkers right in lecturers and writers who have their lecturers and writers who have their lecturers and writers who have their classroom theories put into practice classroom theories put into practice classroom theories put into practice by people by people by people pointing guns at one another pointing guns at one another pointing guns at one another the funny thing about it is that the the funny thing about it is that the the funny thing about it is that the ideas of things like the american ideas of things like the american ideas of things like the american revolution do not sound radical to revolution do not sound radical to revolution do not sound radical to people today how could they people today how could they people today how could they those ideas and the ideas of the french those ideas and the ideas of the french those ideas and the ideas of the french revolution and those revolution and those revolution and those ideas from some of these guys and the ideas from some of these guys and the ideas from some of these guys and the enlightenment form the basis for you enlightenment form the basis for you enlightenment form the basis for you know our concepts of things like human know our concepts of things like human know our concepts of things like human rights and everything today rights and everything today rights and everything today but when they first showed up there are but when they first showed up there are but when they first showed up there are a lot of places where you start talking a lot of places where you start talking a lot of places where you start talking about that stuff openly and they will about that stuff openly and they will about that stuff openly and they will kill you they'll execute you in a lot of kill you they'll execute you in a lot of kill you they'll execute you in a lot of these societies that have czars or holy these societies that have czars or holy these societies that have czars or holy roman emperors or absolute rulers heck roman emperors or absolute rulers heck roman emperors or absolute rulers heck there's a lot of places you'll get there's a lot of places you'll get there's a lot of places you'll get killed in the 21st century world killed in the 21st century world killed in the 21st century world spouting the ideas of spouting the ideas of spouting the ideas of thomas jefferson for example thomas jefferson for example thomas jefferson for example you can see you can see you can see movement on the attitudes toward the

movement on the attitudes toward the movement on the attitudes toward the slavery question before the american slavery question before the american slavery question before the american revolution breaks out because you'll revolution breaks out because you'll revolution breaks out because you'll start to see the start to see the start to see the really tiny but just starting really tiny but just starting really tiny but just starting abolitionist movement gain some traction abolitionist movement gain some traction abolitionist movement gain some traction there's a famous 1772 decision in there's a famous 1772 decision in there's a famous 1772 decision in britain britain britain over a slave who runs away from his over a slave who runs away from his over a slave who runs away from his master while they're in britain master while they're in britain master while they're in britain and then gets recaptured then the court and then gets recaptured then the court and then gets recaptured then the court rules hey you know we don't have to rules hey you know we don't have to rules hey you know we don't have to follow the law wherever you were made a follow the law wherever you were made a follow the law wherever you were made a slave which i think was boston slave which i think was boston slave which i think was boston so you're free here and that had so you're free here and that had so you're free here and that had ramifications but then when you get ramifications but then when you get ramifications but then when you get the american revolution what you see is the american revolution what you see is the american revolution what you see is the the the great hypocrisy begin and it's the kind great hypocrisy begin and it's the kind great hypocrisy begin and it's the kind of hypocrisy of hypocrisy of hypocrisy that just over the course of time is that just over the course of time is that just over the course of time is unsustainable unsustainable unsustainable a chasm is created that can be widened a chasm is created that can be widened a chasm is created that can be widened by people by people by people on the anti-slavery side of things the hypocrisy is the the hypocrisy is the lead in the declaration of independence lead in the declaration of independence lead in the declaration of independence and by that i mean in the journalistic and by that i mean in the journalistic and by that i mean in the journalistic sense right you're never supposed to sense right you're never supposed to sense right you're never supposed to bury the lead put it right at the top bury the lead put it right at the top bury the lead put it right at the top um um um all men are created equal right all men are created equal right all men are created equal right what do you do with that in a slave what do you do with that in a slave what do you do with that in a slave society society society right the declaration says we hold these right the declaration says we hold these right the declaration says we hold these truths to be self-evident truths to be self-evident truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal that all men are created equal that all men are created equal endowed by their creator with certain endowed by their creator with certain endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights unalienable rights unalienable rights among which are life liberty and the among which are life liberty and the among which are life liberty and the pursuit of happiness

pursuit of happiness pursuit of happiness what do you do if you live in a slave what do you do if you live in a slave what do you do if you live in a slave society but you actively believe that society but you actively believe that society but you actively believe that david breon davis david breon davis david breon davis says this is the greatest says this is the greatest says this is the greatest weapon in the arsenal of american weapon in the arsenal of american weapon in the arsenal of american abolitionists the ability to hold a abolitionists the ability to hold a abolitionists the ability to hold a mirror up mirror up mirror up to people and say hey to people and say hey to people and say hey your whole country is about this how can your whole country is about this how can your whole country is about this how can you stand you stand you stand for this hypocrisy he writes quote for this hypocrisy he writes quote for this hypocrisy he writes quote the strongest card in the hands of the strongest card in the hands of the strongest card in the hands of american abolitionists was their ability american abolitionists was their ability american abolitionists was their ability to indict the entire american nation for to indict the entire american nation for to indict the entire american nation for what appeared to be the most what appeared to be the most what appeared to be the most hypocritical contradiction in all human hypocritical contradiction in all human hypocritical contradiction in all human history history history a nation conceived in liberty and a nation conceived in liberty and a nation conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all dedicated to the proposition that all dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal men are created equal men are created equal happened also to be the nation by the happened also to be the nation by the happened also to be the nation by the mid-19th century with the largest number mid-19th century with the largest number mid-19th century with the largest number of slaves in the western hemisphere of slaves in the western hemisphere of slaves in the western hemisphere end quote end quote end quote to show that the slaves to show that the slaves to show that the slaves instantly picked up on this instantly picked up on this instantly picked up on this hypocrisy there's a great story i'd hypocrisy there's a great story i'd hypocrisy there's a great story i'd never encountered it before but i saw it never encountered it before but i saw it never encountered it before but i saw it in several sources when i was reading in several sources when i was reading in several sources when i was reading for this conversation and it involved for this conversation and it involved for this conversation and it involved one of these protests that happened in one of these protests that happened in one of these protests that happened in the early periods of of sort of the the the early periods of of sort of the the the early periods of of sort of the the bubbling of the cauldron of the american bubbling of the cauldron of the american bubbling of the cauldron of the american revolution before the shooting war broke revolution before the shooting war broke revolution before the shooting war broke out so 1765 i think it was in south out so 1765 i think it was in south out so 1765 i think it was in south carolina and a bunch of the colonists carolina and a bunch of the colonists carolina and a bunch of the colonists were going to the town square where were going to the town square where were going to the town square where everybody sort of was to protest i everybody sort of was to protest i everybody sort of was to protest i believe it was the stamp act it was one believe it was the stamp act it was one believe it was the stamp act it was one of those and they're yelling all of the

of those and they're yelling all of the of those and they're yelling all of the rhetoric of the revolution you know rhetoric of the revolution you know rhetoric of the revolution you know liberty liberty uh we will not let king liberty liberty uh we will not let king liberty liberty uh we will not let king george enslave us all these kinds of george enslave us all these kinds of george enslave us all these kinds of things and i guess things and i guess things and i guess watching all this along with everyone watching all this along with everyone watching all this along with everyone else is a bunch of actual real black else is a bunch of actual real black else is a bunch of actual real black slaves in south carolina slaves in south carolina slaves in south carolina and the sources were not clear on and the sources were not clear on and the sources were not clear on whether or not this spontaneously whether or not this spontaneously whether or not this spontaneously happened right at that moment which happened right at that moment which happened right at that moment which would have been cinematic and that's how would have been cinematic and that's how would have been cinematic and that's how i hope it went down or if it happened a i hope it went down or if it happened a i hope it went down or if it happened a couple of days later but apparently the couple of days later but apparently the couple of days later but apparently the slaves picked up on the hypocrisy and slaves picked up on the hypocrisy and slaves picked up on the hypocrisy and started started started shouting the same slogans in the town shouting the same slogans in the town shouting the same slogans in the town square square square appalling the residents and basically appalling the residents and basically appalling the residents and basically giving them a clear idea that they faced giving them a clear idea that they faced giving them a clear idea that they faced what david breon davis referred to as a what david breon davis referred to as a what david breon davis referred to as a revolution within a revolution revolution within a revolution revolution within a revolution if they're not careful when they decide if they're not careful when they decide if they're not careful when they decide to break away from the king critics and enemies and adversaries of critics and enemies and adversaries of the united states also used this obvious the united states also used this obvious the united states also used this obvious contradiction between the marketing contradiction between the marketing contradiction between the marketing material material material and facts on the ground to ridicule the and facts on the ground to ridicule the and facts on the ground to ridicule the new country british writer samuel new country british writer samuel new country british writer samuel johnson and i'm going from memory here johnson and i'm going from memory here johnson and i'm going from memory here but it's a famous quote he said but it's a famous quote he said but it's a famous quote he said something like you know how is it we something like you know how is it we something like you know how is it we hear the loudest yelps of liberty hear the loudest yelps of liberty hear the loudest yelps of liberty from the drivers of negroes from the drivers of negroes from the drivers of negroes and you almost get the feel when you and you almost get the feel when you and you almost get the feel when you read the founding documents read the founding documents read the founding documents that there was a bit of wincing on the that there was a bit of wincing on the that there was a bit of wincing on the part of some of the founders over the part of some of the founders over the part of some of the founders over the issue i mean perhaps that explains why issue i mean perhaps that explains why issue i mean perhaps that explains why you don't see the word slave openly

you don't see the word slave openly you don't see the word slave openly very often very often very often i'm trying to think of any times you see i'm trying to think of any times you see i'm trying to think of any times you see it and of course slavery is written into it and of course slavery is written into it and of course slavery is written into the constitution it's written in other the constitution it's written in other the constitution it's written in other documents it's mentioned in the documents it's mentioned in the documents it's mentioned in the declaration but not by name declaration but not by name declaration but not by name is there a reason for that and if there is there a reason for that and if there is there a reason for that and if there is what would it be i'm gonna say is what would it be i'm gonna say is what would it be i'm gonna say uh some of these people might have uh some of these people might have uh some of these people might have noticed the contradiction we already noticed the contradiction we already noticed the contradiction we already used the quote from clint smith's book used the quote from clint smith's book used the quote from clint smith's book where he points out jefferson was aware where he points out jefferson was aware where he points out jefferson was aware and so he has such a hand in this and so he has such a hand in this and so he has such a hand in this writing maybe he just decides certain writing maybe he just decides certain writing maybe he just decides certain inconsistencies don't need to have inconsistencies don't need to have inconsistencies don't need to have attention drawn to them i'm just attention drawn to them i'm just attention drawn to them i'm just guessing guessing guessing the french of course will have a the french of course will have a the french of course will have a revolution right after the american one revolution right after the american one revolution right after the american one there's a lot of cross pollination early there's a lot of cross pollination early there's a lot of cross pollination early on people don't always know this but the on people don't always know this but the on people don't always know this but the french helped the american revolution a french helped the american revolution a french helped the american revolution a lot lot lot a guy named lafayette was famously a a guy named lafayette was famously a a guy named lafayette was famously a frenchman that um that we held close to frenchman that um that we held close to frenchman that um that we held close to our hearts and then when the french our hearts and then when the french our hearts and then when the french revolution started 1789 which is the revolution started 1789 which is the revolution started 1789 which is the year the u.s constitution signed in 1787 year the u.s constitution signed in 1787 year the u.s constitution signed in 1787 goes into effect so they're close behind goes into effect so they're close behind goes into effect so they're close behind uh thomas jefferson's in france helping uh thomas jefferson's in france helping uh thomas jefferson's in france helping lafayette draft things like the lafayette draft things like the lafayette draft things like the declaration of the rights of man and the declaration of the rights of man and the declaration of the rights of man and the citizen i mean these are citizen i mean these are citizen i mean these are to the french what these declaration of to the french what these declaration of to the french what these declaration of independence and constitutions are to independence and constitutions are to independence and constitutions are to the united states and the united states and the united states and guess what thomas jefferson's got a hand guess what thomas jefferson's got a hand guess what thomas jefferson's got a hand in both of them when you read them this in both of them when you read them this in both of them when you read them this sounds like humanity taking a step sounds like humanity taking a step sounds like humanity taking a step forward but jefferson is all by himself a but jefferson is all by himself a perfect

perfect perfect as we've said symbol of as we've said symbol of as we've said symbol of the hypocrisy the hypocrisy the hypocrisy here's a man who's got a hand in writing here's a man who's got a hand in writing here's a man who's got a hand in writing two of the most influential two of the most influential two of the most influential bedrock foundational documents and bedrock foundational documents and bedrock foundational documents and statements and coming up with the statements and coming up with the statements and coming up with the language and the approach and everything language and the approach and everything language and the approach and everything for for for what modern human rights are all sort of what modern human rights are all sort of what modern human rights are all sort of based on based on based on and he owns hundreds of people and he owns hundreds of people and he owns hundreds of people and yet he becomes a powerful voice in and yet he becomes a powerful voice in and yet he becomes a powerful voice in the early american republic the early american republic the early american republic for for for curtailing and eliminating the slave curtailing and eliminating the slave curtailing and eliminating the slave trade i mean what do you make of a guy trade i mean what do you make of a guy trade i mean what do you make of a guy like this there's a lot of historical like this there's a lot of historical like this there's a lot of historical figures like this by the way right these figures like this by the way right these figures like this by the way right these ones who maybe are um responsible for ones who maybe are um responsible for ones who maybe are um responsible for things that we all consider to be good things that we all consider to be good things that we all consider to be good things today things today things today but who when you examine their but who when you examine their but who when you examine their individual lives make them hard to root individual lives make them hard to root individual lives make them hard to root for for for a lot of heroes are that way the whole a lot of heroes are that way the whole a lot of heroes are that way the whole process of heroization process of heroization process of heroization requires that we you know sand off those requires that we you know sand off those requires that we you know sand off those rough edges and squash them into the rough edges and squash them into the rough edges and squash them into the two-dimensional convenience store two-dimensional convenience store two-dimensional convenience store cardboard cut out figures cardboard cut out figures cardboard cut out figures so that we can use them for a purpose so that we can use them for a purpose so that we can use them for a purpose right right right to celebrate a message or one of our to celebrate a message or one of our to celebrate a message or one of our finer stand-up moments in history be finer stand-up moments in history be finer stand-up moments in history be like that person if you're going to say like that person if you're going to say like that person if you're going to say be like thomas jefferson you don't want be like thomas jefferson you don't want be like thomas jefferson you don't want to talk about all the weird stuff and to talk about all the weird stuff and to talk about all the weird stuff and there's some other weird stuff which is there's some other weird stuff which is there's some other weird stuff which is it's not just a thomas jefferson thing it's not just a thomas jefferson thing it's not just a thomas jefferson thing it's a it's a sign of their times thing it's a it's a sign of their times thing it's a it's a sign of their times thing and it's bizarre and there's a pathos and it's bizarre and there's a pathos and it's bizarre and there's a pathos there that must be connected certainly there that must be connected certainly there that must be connected certainly to the atlantic black slavery thing but to the atlantic black slavery thing but to the atlantic black slavery thing but maybe slavery forever but it's above my maybe slavery forever but it's above my maybe slavery forever but it's above my pay grade to try to psychoanalyze what's pay grade to try to psychoanalyze what's pay grade to try to psychoanalyze what's going on here but maybe you can

going on here but maybe you can going on here but maybe you can so i'll just explain it to you real so i'll just explain it to you real so i'll just explain it to you real quickly because it says something i quickly because it says something i quickly because it says something i don't know what it says but it says don't know what it says but it says don't know what it says but it says something so we all probably heard that something so we all probably heard that something so we all probably heard that thomas jefferson had a slave that he was thomas jefferson had a slave that he was thomas jefferson had a slave that he was sleeping with her name was sally sleeping with her name was sally sleeping with her name was sally hemmings hemmings hemmings and for a long time there were jefferson and for a long time there were jefferson and for a long time there were jefferson supporters who denied that that he supporters who denied that that he supporters who denied that that he really did father six children with her really did father six children with her really did father six children with her but recent dna tests would seem to but recent dna tests would seem to but recent dna tests would seem to settle that matter settle that matter settle that matter now that's not the strange part as we've now that's not the strange part as we've now that's not the strange part as we've hinted at before and you know i didn't hinted at before and you know i didn't hinted at before and you know i didn't know how to even handle the slave rape know how to even handle the slave rape know how to even handle the slave rape thing thing thing i mean you could do a whole i mean you could do a whole i mean you could do a whole just nothing but story i mean you don't just nothing but story i mean you don't just nothing but story i mean you don't know where to draw the line and the know where to draw the line and the know where to draw the line and the horrificness of slavery right it could horrificness of slavery right it could horrificness of slavery right it could just be example after example and the just be example after example and the just be example after example and the rape thing's a perfect example but the rape thing's a perfect example but the rape thing's a perfect example but the sally hemings thing is weirder right sally hemings thing is weirder right sally hemings thing is weirder right because i can i can understand the because i can i can understand the because i can i can understand the sadistic lust filled slave owner sadistic lust filled slave owner sadistic lust filled slave owner scenario jefferson's is different so scenario jefferson's is different so scenario jefferson's is different so let's start with the weirdness here let's start with the weirdness here let's start with the weirdness here jefferson's wife dies at 33 years old jefferson's wife dies at 33 years old jefferson's wife dies at 33 years old leaving him you know grief stricken leaving him you know grief stricken leaving him you know grief stricken apparently because she didn't want her apparently because she didn't want her apparently because she didn't want her children to have a stepmother she made children to have a stepmother she made children to have a stepmother she made him promise that he'd never marry again him promise that he'd never marry again him promise that he'd never marry again and he said he won't and he said he won't and he said he won't so he ends up taking so he ends up taking so he ends up taking i think she was 14 when they traveled to i think she was 14 when they traveled to i think she was 14 when they traveled to paris together who knows when anything paris together who knows when anything paris together who knows when anything was consummated uh young sally hemmings was consummated uh young sally hemmings was consummated uh young sally hemmings young sally hemmings is a slave young sally hemmings is a slave young sally hemmings is a slave she happens to be there's no photos but she happens to be there's no photos but she happens to be there's no photos but when you read descriptions she's when you read descriptions she's when you read descriptions she's described as someone you know in the described as someone you know in the described as someone you know in the parlance of the southern slave holding parlance of the southern slave holding parlance of the southern slave holding language at the time who could pass for language at the time who could pass for language at the time who could pass for white light skin white light skin white light skin long chestnut hair if i recall long chestnut hair if i recall long chestnut hair if i recall well it shouldn't surprise any anybody

well it shouldn't surprise any anybody well it shouldn't surprise any anybody about this because sally hemmings is about this because sally hemmings is about this because sally hemmings is only one quarter black she's a she's a only one quarter black she's a she's a only one quarter black she's a she's a three-quarters white slave but the rules three-quarters white slave but the rules three-quarters white slave but the rules of the time dictated that she was now of the time dictated that she was now of the time dictated that she was now that's not even the really that's not even the really that's not even the really pathos-oriented part the fact that she's pathos-oriented part the fact that she's pathos-oriented part the fact that she's the half-sister of jefferson's now dead the half-sister of jefferson's now dead the half-sister of jefferson's now dead wife is because jefferson's now dead wife is because jefferson's now dead wife is because jefferson's now dead wife's father had his wife die on him wife's father had his wife die on him wife's father had his wife die on him too just like thomas jefferson and he too just like thomas jefferson and he too just like thomas jefferson and he took a slave concubine just like thomas took a slave concubine just like thomas took a slave concubine just like thomas jefferson it was sally hemings mother jefferson it was sally hemings mother jefferson it was sally hemings mother who was also biracial i think she was who was also biracial i think she was who was also biracial i think she was half white half white half white and so when they have children together and so when they have children together and so when they have children together right jefferson's white right jefferson's white right jefferson's white wife's father wife's father wife's father uh and his slave uh and his slave uh and his slave they are one quarter black and three they are one quarter black and three they are one quarter black and three quarter white quarter white quarter white now this isn't even the part that blows now this isn't even the part that blows now this isn't even the part that blows my mind yet my mind yet my mind yet jefferson of course and sally hemmings i jefferson of course and sally hemmings i jefferson of course and sally hemmings i guess have six children what that means guess have six children what that means guess have six children what that means is that those six children are is that those six children are is that those six children are one-eighth black and seven eighths white one-eighth black and seven eighths white one-eighth black and seven eighths white and yet due to the and yet due to the and yet due to the absolutely bizarre rules of the time absolutely bizarre rules of the time absolutely bizarre rules of the time period they're slaves period they're slaves period they're slaves and they work on jefferson's plantation and they work on jefferson's plantation and they work on jefferson's plantation for jefferson their father for jefferson their father for jefferson their father i mean the whole thing i mean the whole thing i mean the whole thing is bizarre is bizarre is bizarre and it involves these elements where you and it involves these elements where you and it involves these elements where you go now wait a minute you're still their go now wait a minute you're still their go now wait a minute you're still their dad wouldn't you feel any dad wouldn't you feel any dad wouldn't you feel any family sort of connection and it's i family sort of connection and it's i family sort of connection and it's i don't even know how to begin to don't even know how to begin to don't even know how to begin to psychoanalyze that psychoanalyze that psychoanalyze that but it is but it is but it is twisted twisted twisted and strange and

and strange and and strange and um you don't know how to measure that um you don't know how to measure that um you don't know how to measure that next to the obvious contributions the next to the obvious contributions the next to the obvious contributions the guy made guy made guy made to the cause of to the cause of to the cause of human freedom and the language that is human freedom and the language that is human freedom and the language that is so important and you the reason you know so important and you the reason you know so important and you the reason you know it's so important is even slaves will be it's so important is even slaves will be it's so important is even slaves will be using it one of my favorite stories of a using it one of my favorite stories of a using it one of my favorite stories of a slave revolt in the early united states slave revolt in the early united states slave revolt in the early united states happens the same year that congressional happens the same year that congressional happens the same year that congressional conversation that we quoted earlier conversation that we quoted earlier conversation that we quoted earlier right between thatcher of massachusetts right between thatcher of massachusetts right between thatcher of massachusetts and jones of georgia um that's 1800 and and jones of georgia um that's 1800 and and jones of georgia um that's 1800 and in 1800 there was a rebellion called uh in 1800 there was a rebellion called uh in 1800 there was a rebellion called uh gabriel's rebellion i think it's known gabriel's rebellion i think it's known gabriel's rebellion i think it's known as now like so many of the north as now like so many of the north as now like so many of the north american rebellions it's nothing in american rebellions it's nothing in american rebellions it's nothing in terms of size i mean this these things terms of size i mean this these things terms of size i mean this these things rarely take off they rarely involve a rarely take off they rarely involve a rarely take off they rarely involve a lot of people in north america and lot of people in north america and lot of people in north america and there's a lot of reasons for that but there's a lot of reasons for that but there's a lot of reasons for that but when the slave revolt is crushed and when the slave revolt is crushed and when the slave revolt is crushed and they they do the you know after action they they do the you know after action they they do the you know after action report the interrogations right it's report the interrogations right it's report the interrogations right it's like forest fires you always want to like forest fires you always want to like forest fires you always want to find out now how did this thing get find out now how did this thing get find out now how did this thing get started started started the stories that come out of this and the stories that come out of this and the stories that come out of this and this is sometimes you know let's be this is sometimes you know let's be this is sometimes you know let's be honest i mean these people are sometimes honest i mean these people are sometimes honest i mean these people are sometimes being tortured for information they'll being tortured for information they'll being tortured for information they'll say whatever the torturers want to hear say whatever the torturers want to hear say whatever the torturers want to hear so you have no way to know what's real so you have no way to know what's real so you have no way to know what's real and what's not but it's interesting that and what's not but it's interesting that and what's not but it's interesting that one of the slaves said that they were one of the slaves said that they were one of the slaves said that they were going to have a flag that they would going to have a flag that they would going to have a flag that they would carry from plantation to plantation as carry from plantation to plantation as carry from plantation to plantation as the rebellion was going to spread and the rebellion was going to spread and the rebellion was going to spread and the flag was going to have the words the flag was going to have the words the flag was going to have the words death or liberty on it death or liberty on it death or liberty on it this of course is just a variation of this of course is just a variation of this of course is just a variation of the patrick henry line give me liberty the patrick henry line give me liberty the patrick henry line give me liberty or give me death which these slaves all or give me death which these slaves all or give me death which these slaves all would have known would have known would have known what's more when one of the slaves is what's more when one of the slaves is what's more when one of the slaves is captured and interrogated he's supposed

captured and interrogated he's supposed captured and interrogated he's supposed to have said to the interrogators i have to have said to the interrogators i have to have said to the interrogators i have nothing more to tell you than what nothing more to tell you than what nothing more to tell you than what george washington would tell his captors george washington would tell his captors george washington would tell his captors were he seized by the british were he seized by the british were he seized by the british that is the hypocrisy thrown right in that is the hypocrisy thrown right in that is the hypocrisy thrown right in your face isn't it your face isn't it your face isn't it by the time this gabriel's rebellion is by the time this gabriel's rebellion is by the time this gabriel's rebellion is thwarted in 1800 thwarted in 1800 thwarted in 1800 or the thatcher jones debate is taking or the thatcher jones debate is taking or the thatcher jones debate is taking place in congress place in congress place in congress something interesting is happening something interesting is happening something interesting is happening in the history of slavery in the history of slavery in the history of slavery it is both about to get it is both about to get it is both about to get much better much better much better and much worse much better because the and much worse much better because the and much worse much better because the forces forces forces of of of anti-slavery thought anti-slavery thought anti-slavery thought are beginning to coalesce and and become are beginning to coalesce and and become are beginning to coalesce and and become powerful powerful powerful besides public opinion that is spurred besides public opinion that is spurred besides public opinion that is spurred on by pamphlets and magazines and on by pamphlets and magazines and on by pamphlets and magazines and editorials and newspapers and all this editorials and newspapers and all this editorials and newspapers and all this kind of stuff that is the sort of public kind of stuff that is the sort of public kind of stuff that is the sort of public opinion shaping opinion shaping opinion shaping um you know they'd call it activist um you know they'd call it activist um you know they'd call it activist journalism maybe today journalism maybe today journalism maybe today all of that's having an impact all of that's having an impact all of that's having an impact david breon davis gives some statistics david breon davis gives some statistics david breon davis gives some statistics and there's like data points is a good and there's like data points is a good and there's like data points is a good way to look at it but he says that the way to look at it but he says that the way to look at it but he says that the first first first national abolitionist national abolitionist national abolitionist petition campaign to end the slave trade petition campaign to end the slave trade petition campaign to end the slave trade in britain in britain in britain kicked off in 1788 kicked off in 1788 kicked off in 1788 and the year before in liverpool they'd and the year before in liverpool they'd and the year before in liverpool they'd asked people to sign a petition to end asked people to sign a petition to end asked people to sign a petition to end the slave trade and in this the slave trade and in this the slave trade and in this industrial industrial industrial working class northern british city

working class northern british city working class northern british city that was a shipping town that benefited that was a shipping town that benefited that was a shipping town that benefited directly from slavery directly from slavery directly from slavery the first time they had a chance to do the first time they had a chance to do the first time they had a chance to do so more than 10 000 people so more than 10 000 people so more than 10 000 people signed the petition and you think okay signed the petition and you think okay signed the petition and you think okay that's interesting that's interesting that's interesting but it's trends we're looking for right but it's trends we're looking for right but it's trends we're looking for right the very next year those ten thousand or the very next year those ten thousand or the very next year those ten thousand or so people so people so people had mushroomed to a hundred thousand four years later an estimated 400 000 in four years later an estimated 400 000 in britain signed the similar petition britain signed the similar petition britain signed the similar petition so you see this growth rate where you're so you see this growth rate where you're so you see this growth rate where you're just wondering just wondering just wondering what the heck's going on here right this what the heck's going on here right this what the heck's going on here right this is a this is a swing is a this is a swing is a this is a swing in public opinion in public opinion in public opinion davis has a line in here where he points davis has a line in here where he points davis has a line in here where he points out out out that this swing in public opinion caught that this swing in public opinion caught that this swing in public opinion caught the slave owners the slave owners the slave owners by surprise and in britain the uh by surprise and in britain the uh by surprise and in britain the uh their equivalent to the american south their equivalent to the american south their equivalent to the american south are what they sometimes call the west are what they sometimes call the west are what they sometimes call the west indian interests those are the people in indian interests those are the people in indian interests those are the people in like jamaica and barbados and those like jamaica and barbados and those like jamaica and barbados and those places places places and um davis writes quote in 1792 and um davis writes quote in 1792 and um davis writes quote in 1792 the government meaning the british the government meaning the british the government meaning the british government received 519 government received 519 government received 519 anti-slave trade or anti-slavery anti-slave trade or anti-slavery anti-slave trade or anti-slavery petitions containing some 390 000 petitions containing some 390 000 petitions containing some 390 000 signatures the west indian interests signatures the west indian interests signatures the west indian interests were stunned as the press began were stunned as the press began were stunned as the press began promoting the cause and a popular promoting the cause and a popular promoting the cause and a popular movement arose to boycott slave-grown movement arose to boycott slave-grown movement arose to boycott slave-grown sugar much as the north american sugar much as the north american sugar much as the north american colonies had earlier boycotted british colonies had earlier boycotted british colonies had earlier boycotted british imports end quote

we keep saying that slavery seems like we keep saying that slavery seems like an ancient institution out of place in a an ancient institution out of place in a an ancient institution out of place in a world this modern world this modern world this modern well doesn't this sound like a very well doesn't this sound like a very well doesn't this sound like a very modern sort of response so this is all stuff where you could say so this is all stuff where you could say hey hey hey this is real progress things are this is real progress things are this is real progress things are you know changing and they're changing you know changing and they're changing you know changing and they're changing fast i mean in what is slavery brenda e fast i mean in what is slavery brenda e fast i mean in what is slavery brenda e stevenson runs down the list of stevenson runs down the list of stevenson runs down the list of uh abolitionist and um and black uh abolitionist and um and black uh abolitionist and um and black assistant societies that crop up assistant societies that crop up assistant societies that crop up and she announces one of the early ones and she announces one of the early ones and she announces one of the early ones in 1775 and then goes down this whole in 1775 and then goes down this whole in 1775 and then goes down this whole list list list you know through 1794 so just you know you know through 1794 so just you know you know through 1794 so just you know 19 years 19 years 19 years and from basically little or nothing to and from basically little or nothing to and from basically little or nothing to they're coming out every year with a new they're coming out every year with a new they're coming out every year with a new one one one so you can clearly see that there's this so you can clearly see that there's this so you can clearly see that there's this demand and this fervor towards this and demand and this fervor towards this and demand and this fervor towards this and religion is becoming a huge part of this religion is becoming a huge part of this religion is becoming a huge part of this the quakers are going to have it be the quakers are going to have it be the quakers are going to have it be an enduring part of their an enduring part of their an enduring part of their um sort of identity now and they they um sort of identity now and they they um sort of identity now and they they started out with slaves too and they had started out with slaves too and they had started out with slaves too and they had to figure out in a microchasm way what to figure out in a microchasm way what to figure out in a microchasm way what society they have to figure out later on society they have to figure out later on society they have to figure out later on is what do we do with the people who own is what do we do with the people who own is what do we do with the people who own slaves how do we work this out but once slaves how do we work this out but once slaves how do we work this out but once they did they did they did they have a fervor they have a fervor they have a fervor and they will they will communicate with and they will they will communicate with and they will they will communicate with their religious brethren on both sides their religious brethren on both sides their religious brethren on both sides of the atlantic as will these abolition of the atlantic as will these abolition of the atlantic as will these abolition societies you begin to see britain societies you begin to see britain societies you begin to see britain leading the way but the united states leading the way but the united states leading the way but the united states not far behind but what this does is it not far behind but what this does is it not far behind but what this does is it begins to create a pushback if you will begins to create a pushback if you will begins to create a pushback if you will the places that are much more the places that are much more the places that are much more addicted to slavery begin to go from uh

addicted to slavery begin to go from uh addicted to slavery begin to go from uh mildly sort of resigned and saying yes mildly sort of resigned and saying yes mildly sort of resigned and saying yes it's a terrible institution but what are it's a terrible institution but what are it's a terrible institution but what are you gonna do you gonna do you gonna do um to active actively becoming defensive um to active actively becoming defensive um to active actively becoming defensive about it and in some cases touting about it and in some cases touting about it and in some cases touting the fact that the uh anti-slavery people the fact that the uh anti-slavery people the fact that the uh anti-slavery people have it all wrong this is positively have it all wrong this is positively have it all wrong this is positively good for everyone right but but that will create a divide but but that will create a divide between the places where between the places where between the places where uh public opinion is beginning to be uh public opinion is beginning to be uh public opinion is beginning to be changed and the places that changed and the places that changed and the places that dig in their heels and say you know hell dig in their heels and say you know hell dig in their heels and say you know hell no we won't go to your anti-slavery no we won't go to your anti-slavery no we won't go to your anti-slavery world world world and and and party you know you have to look at the party you know you have to look at the party you know you have to look at the human element of this too it's not just human element of this too it's not just human element of this too it's not just everyone leveling up in a humanitarian everyone leveling up in a humanitarian everyone leveling up in a humanitarian sense but the economics of it all are sense but the economics of it all are sense but the economics of it all are changing free labor in the united states changing free labor in the united states changing free labor in the united states especially in the north is becoming much especially in the north is becoming much especially in the north is becoming much more important and it cares about more important and it cares about more important and it cares about slavery for a lot of reasons including slavery for a lot of reasons including slavery for a lot of reasons including the fact that you know even if they the fact that you know even if they the fact that you know even if they don't care anything a wit about what's don't care anything a wit about what's don't care anything a wit about what's happening to the slaves if it impacts happening to the slaves if it impacts happening to the slaves if it impacts the paycheck at the end of the week that the paycheck at the end of the week that the paycheck at the end of the week that they feed their family with they feed their family with they feed their family with they may hate slavery just because it they may hate slavery just because it they may hate slavery just because it depresses wages or takes jobs depresses wages or takes jobs depresses wages or takes jobs you also have to note and because it's a you also have to note and because it's a you also have to note and because it's a it we would be fools not to that this it we would be fools not to that this it we would be fools not to that this amazing turnaround on the slave trade amazing turnaround on the slave trade amazing turnaround on the slave trade especially in north america uh can stem especially in north america uh can stem especially in north america uh can stem from racism you know a lot of people from racism you know a lot of people from racism you know a lot of people just not thinking that we need any more just not thinking that we need any more just not thinking that we need any more africans in this you know wonderful gods africans in this you know wonderful gods africans in this you know wonderful gods country country country it can stem from it can stem from it can stem from an overabundance of slaves the americas an overabundance of slaves the americas an overabundance of slaves the americas are going to have uh something happen are going to have uh something happen are going to have uh something happen north america is going to have something north america is going to have something north america is going to have something happen that didn't happen in a lot of

happen that didn't happen in a lot of happen that didn't happen in a lot of other places the birth rate is going to other places the birth rate is going to other places the birth rate is going to increase so you don't need to increase so you don't need to increase so you don't need to continually refresh the supply line from continually refresh the supply line from continually refresh the supply line from africa necessarily the way you do in africa necessarily the way you do in africa necessarily the way you do in places where they just work them to places where they just work them to places where they just work them to death and then bring in replacements but we be fools not to notice that but we be fools not to notice that you're seeing sort of an alliance you're seeing sort of an alliance you're seeing sort of an alliance between between between uh black activists and frederick uh black activists and frederick uh black activists and frederick douglass is a perfect example he'll go douglass is a perfect example he'll go douglass is a perfect example he'll go speak to all these groups as a living speak to all these groups as a living speak to all these groups as a living example you know you want some empathy example you know you want some empathy example you know you want some empathy for these people who are for these people who are for these people who are are so different from you and live in are so different from you and live in are so different from you and live in such strange conditions compared to you such strange conditions compared to you such strange conditions compared to you well here's frederick douglass dressed well here's frederick douglass dressed well here's frederick douglass dressed in the suit and tie um to speak to you in the suit and tie um to speak to you in the suit and tie um to speak to you about his life and what he went through about his life and what he went through about his life and what he went through and it just becomes and it just becomes and it just becomes a phenomenon a phenomenon a phenomenon brenda e stevenson and what is slavery brenda e stevenson and what is slavery brenda e stevenson and what is slavery rights quote rights quote rights quote revolutionary era blacks slave and free revolutionary era blacks slave and free revolutionary era blacks slave and free hardly relinquish the legal fight to end hardly relinquish the legal fight to end hardly relinquish the legal fight to end the trade or the institution of slavery the trade or the institution of slavery the trade or the institution of slavery to whites to whites to whites as early as the first years of the 1770s as early as the first years of the 1770s as early as the first years of the 1770s they began individually and in small they began individually and in small they began individually and in small groups to petition legislatures and sue groups to petition legislatures and sue groups to petition legislatures and sue in courts for their freedom in courts for their freedom in courts for their freedom most of their efforts were however most of their efforts were however most of their efforts were however undergirded by religious philosophical undergirded by religious philosophical undergirded by religious philosophical meaning the enlightenment she says and meaning the enlightenment she says and meaning the enlightenment she says and legal arguments that aligned with the legal arguments that aligned with the legal arguments that aligned with the ideals of the american revolution their ideals of the american revolution their ideals of the american revolution their efforts therefore were supported in part efforts therefore were supported in part efforts therefore were supported in part by nascent but growing anti-slavery by nascent but growing anti-slavery by nascent but growing anti-slavery sentiments held by whites sentiments held by whites sentiments held by whites the lack of economic incentive for slave the lack of economic incentive for slave the lack of economic incentive for slave holding in many of the northern states

holding in many of the northern states holding in many of the northern states also contributed to these complementary also contributed to these complementary also contributed to these complementary efforts efforts efforts the results of the combination of the results of the combination of the results of the combination of advocacy from blacks and whites were advocacy from blacks and whites were advocacy from blacks and whites were tremendous leading to the gradual tremendous leading to the gradual tremendous leading to the gradual regional isolation of the institution regional isolation of the institution regional isolation of the institution end quote the gradual end quote the gradual end quote the gradual regional isolation of the institution regional isolation of the institution regional isolation of the institution was places where was places where was places where slavery was still slavery was still slavery was still unbelievably valuable so it's going to unbelievably valuable so it's going to unbelievably valuable so it's going to last in brazil even longer than it does last in brazil even longer than it does last in brazil even longer than it does in the united states in the united states something happens in the united states something happens in the 1790s in the 1790s in the 1790s that will completely change the equation that will completely change the equation that will completely change the equation it's almost as if it's almost as if it's almost as if right when it seems like it would right when it seems like it would right when it seems like it would probably be in everyone's best interest probably be in everyone's best interest probably be in everyone's best interest to sort of jump on this we're phasing to sort of jump on this we're phasing to sort of jump on this we're phasing you know slavery out it's soft landing you know slavery out it's soft landing you know slavery out it's soft landing from slavery it's almost like you know from slavery it's almost like you know from slavery it's almost like you know the the gods of history say well what if the the gods of history say well what if the the gods of history say well what if we throw a little bit more money on the we throw a little bit more money on the we throw a little bit more money on the other side of the scale you know it's other side of the scale you know it's other side of the scale you know it's almost like it's to tempt humanity right almost like it's to tempt humanity right almost like it's to tempt humanity right oh you think slavery is a bad thing now oh you think slavery is a bad thing now oh you think slavery is a bad thing now or what if i give you more or what if i give you more or what if i give you more money in this middle 1790s a guy named money in this middle 1790s a guy named money in this middle 1790s a guy named eli whitney eli whitney eli whitney invents the cotton gin invents the cotton gin invents the cotton gin and the economic situation in the and the economic situation in the and the economic situation in the american south american south american south explodes explodes explodes and there's very little like it hugh and there's very little like it hugh and there's very little like it hugh thomas in the slave trade writes quote thomas in the slave trade writes quote thomas in the slave trade writes quote in 1790 slavery in north america as in 1790 slavery in north america as in 1790 slavery in north america as opposed to north american participation opposed to north american participation opposed to north american participation in the slave trade to cuba and elsewhere

in the slave trade to cuba and elsewhere in the slave trade to cuba and elsewhere seem to be in decline but eli whitney's seem to be in decline but eli whitney's seem to be in decline but eli whitney's fateful invention of the cotton gin on fateful invention of the cotton gin on fateful invention of the cotton gin on mrs nathaniel green's plantation at mrs nathaniel green's plantation at mrs nathaniel green's plantation at savannah georgia during the spring of savannah georgia during the spring of savannah georgia during the spring of 1793 and the realization that with the 1793 and the realization that with the 1793 and the realization that with the removal of this great hindrance hitherto removal of this great hindrance hitherto removal of this great hindrance hitherto to the large-scale cultivation of cotton to the large-scale cultivation of cotton to the large-scale cultivation of cotton and he says that's the taking of the and he says that's the taking of the and he says that's the taking of the lynch from the seeds that used to hold lynch from the seeds that used to hold lynch from the seeds that used to hold them back them back them back he says he then quotes a contemporary he says he then quotes a contemporary he says he then quotes a contemporary source that says that one negro their source that says that one negro their source that says that one negro their words could produce 50 pounds of cleaned words could produce 50 pounds of cleaned words could produce 50 pounds of cleaned cotton a day cotton a day cotton a day then he gives statistics and you know then he gives statistics and you know then he gives statistics and you know you can see similar statistics in other you can see similar statistics in other you can see similar statistics in other books but the like is hard to find books but the like is hard to find books but the like is hard to find elsewhere elsewhere elsewhere he says that the year before the he says that the year before the he says that the year before the invention of the cotton gin that's 1792 invention of the cotton gin that's 1792 invention of the cotton gin that's 1792 a mere well it's basically 139 000 a mere well it's basically 139 000 a mere well it's basically 139 000 pounds of cotton pounds of cotton pounds of cotton was was was exported by the united states exported by the united states exported by the united states which is the same amount he says as uh which is the same amount he says as uh which is the same amount he says as uh guyana guyana guyana in 1794 so that's two years later right in 1794 so that's two years later right in 1794 so that's two years later right he says the figure had left now remember he says the figure had left now remember he says the figure had left now remember it was 139 000 pounds to a million 600 it was 139 000 pounds to a million 600 it was 139 000 pounds to a million 600 000 pounds 000 pounds 000 pounds in in in 1800 that's six years after that she 1800 that's six years after that she 1800 that's six years after that she exported almost i'm just rounding off exported almost i'm just rounding off exported almost i'm just rounding off here 18 here 18 here 18 million pounds million pounds million pounds and in 1820 cotton exports he writes and in 1820 cotton exports he writes and in 1820 cotton exports he writes reached 35 million pounds so let me do that again 1792 it's 140

so let me do that again 1792 it's 140 000 pounds 1794. it's a million six 000 pounds 1794. it's a million six 000 pounds 1794. it's a million six hundred thousand pounds in 1800 it's 18 hundred thousand pounds in 1800 it's 18 hundred thousand pounds in 1800 it's 18 million pounds and in 1820 it's 35 million pounds and in 1820 it's 35 million pounds and in 1820 it's 35 million pounds million pounds million pounds and it is and it is and it is the fiber of the industrial revolution and fiber of the industrial revolution and the american south is supporting the american south is supporting the american south is supporting you know the industrial world you know the industrial world you know the industrial world the money is incredible james wolven says that at the outbreak james wolven says that at the outbreak of the civil war of the civil war of the civil war cotton was worth more than all the other cotton was worth more than all the other cotton was worth more than all the other us exports put together us exports put together us exports put together so the the north is industrializing and so the the north is industrializing and so the the north is industrializing and you'll often hear that before the civil you'll often hear that before the civil you'll often hear that before the civil war that we have an industrialized north war that we have an industrialized north war that we have an industrialized north and an agricultural south and it makes and an agricultural south and it makes and an agricultural south and it makes it sound like the south can't hold their it sound like the south can't hold their it sound like the south can't hold their own economically at all own economically at all own economically at all well they don't have the diversity of well they don't have the diversity of well they don't have the diversity of products and they don't have the products and they don't have the products and they don't have the industry that the north has they don't industry that the north has they don't industry that the north has they don't know the manufacturing the north has but know the manufacturing the north has but know the manufacturing the north has but they have they have they have the oil the oil the oil the yellow bananas that is cotton the yellow bananas that is cotton the yellow bananas that is cotton and there's nothing else like it now and there's nothing else like it now and there's nothing else like it now it's the new sugar right it's the new sugar right it's the new sugar right and with this potential new gold rush and with this potential new gold rush and with this potential new gold rush comes a brand new comes a brand new comes a brand new amazingly huge need for slaves amazingly huge need for slaves amazingly huge need for slaves and you can chart the growth in the and you can chart the growth in the and you can chart the growth in the numbers of us slaves numbers of us slaves numbers of us slaves from the from the from the cotton gins cotton gins cotton gins invention onward and it's a straight-up

invention onward and it's a straight-up invention onward and it's a straight-up graph graph graph this is where the us finally becomes a this is where the us finally becomes a this is where the us finally becomes a major slave player because in 1800 as major slave player because in 1800 as major slave player because in 1800 as we'd said there'd been about 700 000 we'd said there'd been about 700 000 we'd said there'd been about 700 000 slaves that number is going to explode slaves that number is going to explode slaves that number is going to explode both from exports from other you know both from exports from other you know both from exports from other you know countries africa mainly countries africa mainly countries africa mainly but also internal slave trade and but also internal slave trade and but also internal slave trade and internal population growth and hugh internal population growth and hugh internal population growth and hugh thomas rights quote in 1790 there were thomas rights quote in 1790 there were thomas rights quote in 1790 there were only half a million well acclimatized only half a million well acclimatized only half a million well acclimatized slaves in the united states most of them slaves in the united states most of them slaves in the united states most of them of the second or third generation he of the second or third generation he of the second or third generation he means out of africa means out of africa means out of africa between 1800 and 1810 slaves within the between 1800 and 1810 slaves within the between 1800 and 1810 slaves within the united states increased by a third and united states increased by a third and united states increased by a third and there was an increase of nearly another there was an increase of nearly another there was an increase of nearly another third in the next 10 years to 1820 by third in the next 10 years to 1820 by third in the next 10 years to 1820 by 1825 he writes 1825 he writes 1825 he writes the slaves in the united states numbered the slaves in the united states numbered the slaves in the united states numbered over a third of all slaves in the over a third of all slaves in the over a third of all slaves in the americas this trend would continue americas this trend would continue americas this trend would continue end quote end quote end quote so more slaves making more money so more slaves making more money so more slaves making more money right at the same time you have an right at the same time you have an right at the same time you have an unprecedented growing abolition movement unprecedented growing abolition movement unprecedented growing abolition movement that's fervent these two things are on a collision these two things are on a collision course aren't they and it doesn't look course aren't they and it doesn't look course aren't they and it doesn't look like it's going to end all that well like it's going to end all that well like it's going to end all that well and of course there is a third force and of course there is a third force and of course there is a third force involved here involved here involved here that kind of plays into the abolitionist that kind of plays into the abolitionist that kind of plays into the abolitionist argument a little bit which is argument a little bit which is argument a little bit which is basically let's just say do the right basically let's just say do the right basically let's just say do the right thing right do the right thing because thing right do the right thing because thing right do the right thing because it's the right thing

it's the right thing it's the right thing and then there's this veiled sort of and then there's this veiled sort of and then there's this veiled sort of threat that if you don't do the right threat that if you don't do the right threat that if you don't do the right thing because it's the right thing bad thing because it's the right thing bad thing because it's the right thing bad things will happen to you it's almost things will happen to you it's almost things will happen to you it's almost karmic karmic karmic they're the carrot right uh encouraging they're the carrot right uh encouraging they're the carrot right uh encouraging us to rise to our better natures us to rise to our better natures us to rise to our better natures the stick is provided by the captive the stick is provided by the captive the stick is provided by the captive people themselves people themselves people themselves what did we say earlier the fuse on a what did we say earlier the fuse on a what did we say earlier the fuse on a bomb bomb bomb well sometimes bombs have to go off well sometimes bombs have to go off well sometimes bombs have to go off for the potential of an explosion to be for the potential of an explosion to be for the potential of an explosion to be realized realized realized interestingly enough though when bombs interestingly enough though when bombs interestingly enough though when bombs do go off metaphorically speaking uh the do go off metaphorically speaking uh the do go off metaphorically speaking uh the anti-slave crowd will say see this is anti-slave crowd will say see this is anti-slave crowd will say see this is what could happen this is why you have what could happen this is why you have what could happen this is why you have to move on abolition and the pro-slavery to move on abolition and the pro-slavery to move on abolition and the pro-slavery people would say see this is what people would say see this is what people would say see this is what happens when abolitionists stir up happens when abolitionists stir up happens when abolitionists stir up trouble again a recognizably modern dynamic again a recognizably modern dynamic there right but it's not an idle threat on the part but it's not an idle threat on the part of the abolitionists to say hey of the abolitionists to say hey of the abolitionists to say hey let's level up in our humanitarian level let's level up in our humanitarian level let's level up in our humanitarian level or face the consequences because the or face the consequences because the or face the consequences because the consequences are well known to everyone consequences are well known to everyone consequences are well known to everyone slave revolts don't happen as often as slave revolts don't happen as often as slave revolts don't happen as often as we might think they should in history we might think they should in history we might think they should in history given the circumstances and what we given the circumstances and what we given the circumstances and what we might think we would do in the same might think we would do in the same might think we would do in the same situation situation situation but that's because all these societies but that's because all these societies but that's because all these societies are very aware of how precarious things are very aware of how precarious things are very aware of how precarious things could get could get could get and it's not really paranoia if they are and it's not really paranoia if they are and it's not really paranoia if they are out to get you as the saying goes out to get you as the saying goes out to get you as the saying goes and the slave-owning societies and the slave-owning societies and the slave-owning societies especially on the ground in the places especially on the ground in the places especially on the ground in the places where slaves are a big part of life are

where slaves are a big part of life are where slaves are a big part of life are well aware well aware well aware of the grievances that are building up of the grievances that are building up of the grievances that are building up on a people right that newtonian on a people right that newtonian on a people right that newtonian revenge idea for every action there's an revenge idea for every action there's an revenge idea for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction and if you equal and opposite reaction and if you equal and opposite reaction and if you are the slave owning society you are are the slave owning society you are are the slave owning society you are going to try to protect yourself from going to try to protect yourself from going to try to protect yourself from the equal and opposite reaction and in the equal and opposite reaction and in the equal and opposite reaction and in some of these places if you have black some of these places if you have black some of these places if you have black skin it might as well be the equivalent skin it might as well be the equivalent skin it might as well be the equivalent of a totalitarian mid 20th century state of a totalitarian mid 20th century state of a totalitarian mid 20th century state show me your papers show me your papers show me your papers the point is is that that often explains the point is is that that often explains the point is is that that often explains why you don't see this as much as you why you don't see this as much as you why you don't see this as much as you know we would think it would happen know we would think it would happen know we would think it would happen every week every week every week that in the fact that the penalties to that in the fact that the penalties to that in the fact that the penalties to those who are involved in these things those who are involved in these things those who are involved in these things and sometimes everyone around them and sometimes everyone around them and sometimes everyone around them including a nice swath of innocent including a nice swath of innocent including a nice swath of innocent people just to make sure you clear out people just to make sure you clear out people just to make sure you clear out the whole cancer is unbelievably the whole cancer is unbelievably the whole cancer is unbelievably gruesome gruesome gruesome the lynchings and hangings in the 19th the lynchings and hangings in the 19th the lynchings and hangings in the 19th century are probably the best things century are probably the best things century are probably the best things that could happen to you it could get a that could happen to you it could get a that could happen to you it could get a lot worse and it's intended to be as lot worse and it's intended to be as lot worse and it's intended to be as gruesome as possible they'll cut the gruesome as possible they'll cut the gruesome as possible they'll cut the heads off these people put them up on heads off these people put them up on heads off these people put them up on pikes in you know the streets where pikes in you know the streets where pikes in you know the streets where people could see them in the modern era people could see them in the modern era people could see them in the modern era basically basically basically it's supposed to send a message right it's supposed to send a message right it's supposed to send a message right the more gruesome the more the message the more gruesome the more the message the more gruesome the more the message is sent i mean take for example is sent i mean take for example is sent i mean take for example what's going on what's going on what's going on on a place like the island of on a place like the island of on a place like the island of saint-domingue which is a french colony saint-domingue which is a french colony saint-domingue which is a french colony that will be known as haiti later in that will be known as haiti later in that will be known as haiti later in history history history um the records were combed by a marxist um the records were combed by a marxist um the records were combed by a marxist historian historian historian from trinidad

from trinidad from trinidad his name was c.l.r james and he's quoted his name was c.l.r james and he's quoted his name was c.l.r james and he's quoted in slavery of world history by milton in slavery of world history by milton in slavery of world history by milton meltzer and james went through the meltzer and james went through the meltzer and james went through the official reports of what was being official reports of what was being official reports of what was being told to officials was going on told to officials was going on told to officials was going on and clr james writes quote there was no and clr james writes quote there was no and clr james writes quote there was no ingenuity that fear or depraved ingenuity that fear or depraved ingenuity that fear or depraved imagination could devise which was not imagination could devise which was not imagination could devise which was not employed to break their spirit the slave employed to break their spirit the slave employed to break their spirit the slave spirit and satisfy the lusts and spirit and satisfy the lusts and spirit and satisfy the lusts and resentment of their owners and guardians resentment of their owners and guardians resentment of their owners and guardians irons on the hands and feet blocks of irons on the hands and feet blocks of irons on the hands and feet blocks of wood that the slaves had to drag behind wood that the slaves had to drag behind wood that the slaves had to drag behind them wherever they went them wherever they went them wherever they went the tin plate mask designed to prevent the tin plate mask designed to prevent the tin plate mask designed to prevent the slaves eating the sugar cane the the slaves eating the sugar cane the the slaves eating the sugar cane the iron collar iron collar iron collar whipping was interrupted in order to whipping was interrupted in order to whipping was interrupted in order to pass a piece of hot wood on the buttocks pass a piece of hot wood on the buttocks pass a piece of hot wood on the buttocks of the victim salt pepper citron cinders of the victim salt pepper citron cinders of the victim salt pepper citron cinders aloes and hot ashes were poured into the aloes and hot ashes were poured into the aloes and hot ashes were poured into the bleeding wounds bleeding wounds bleeding wounds mutilations were common limbs ears and mutilations were common limbs ears and mutilations were common limbs ears and sometimes the private parts to deprive sometimes the private parts to deprive sometimes the private parts to deprive them of the pleasures which they could them of the pleasures which they could them of the pleasures which they could indulge in without expense indulge in without expense indulge in without expense their masters he writes poured burning their masters he writes poured burning their masters he writes poured burning wax on their arms and hands and wax on their arms and hands and wax on their arms and hands and shoulders shoulders shoulders emptied the boiling cane sugar over emptied the boiling cane sugar over emptied the boiling cane sugar over their heads burned them alive roasted their heads burned them alive roasted their heads burned them alive roasted them on slow fires filled them with gun them on slow fires filled them with gun them on slow fires filled them with gun powder and blew them up with a match powder and blew them up with a match powder and blew them up with a match buried them up to the neck and smeared buried them up to the neck and smeared buried them up to the neck and smeared their heads with sugar that the flies their heads with sugar that the flies their heads with sugar that the flies might devour them fasten them near to

might devour them fasten them near to might devour them fasten them near to nests of ants or wasps made them eat nests of ants or wasps made them eat nests of ants or wasps made them eat their excrement drink their urine and their excrement drink their urine and their excrement drink their urine and lick the saliva of other slaves lick the saliva of other slaves lick the saliva of other slaves end quote meltzer meltzer says that these were not the mad acts of says that these were not the mad acts of says that these were not the mad acts of crazed colonists crazed colonists crazed colonists but says that james asserts that these but says that james asserts that these but says that james asserts that these were the normal features of slave life if those were the features if those were the features of your life what would you do about of your life what would you do about of your life what would you do about that that that what lengths would you be willing to go what lengths would you be willing to go what lengths would you be willing to go to change that situation to change that situation to change that situation and what would you do to the people that and what would you do to the people that and what would you do to the people that put and kept you there if you had a put and kept you there if you had a put and kept you there if you had a chance to get your hands on them as they say in the television as they say in the television commercials results may vary commercials results may vary commercials results may vary but no one would be surprised if a but no one would be surprised if a but no one would be surprised if a bloodbath happened and there were people bloodbath happened and there were people bloodbath happened and there were people prophesizing it in 1770 french prophesizing it in 1770 french prophesizing it in 1770 french enlightenment writer enlightenment writer enlightenment writer guillaume reinau almost sounds like guillaume reinau almost sounds like guillaume reinau almost sounds like he's saying either you get your act he's saying either you get your act he's saying either you get your act together european society or you're together european society or you're together european society or you're gonna get what's coming to you and no gonna get what's coming to you and no gonna get what's coming to you and no one will feel sorry one will feel sorry one will feel sorry and if things happen badly and if things happen badly and if things happen badly who you gonna blame and he says that who you gonna blame and he says that who you gonna blame and he says that it's time to stop maybe appealing to the it's time to stop maybe appealing to the it's time to stop maybe appealing to the humanity of the slave owners humanity of the slave owners humanity of the slave owners and start appealing to their and start appealing to their and start appealing to their self-interest self-interest self-interest and he wrote quote

and he wrote quote and he wrote quote let the ineffectual calls of humanity be let the ineffectual calls of humanity be let the ineffectual calls of humanity be no longer pleaded with the people and no longer pleaded with the people and no longer pleaded with the people and their masters their masters their masters perhaps they've never been attended to perhaps they've never been attended to perhaps they've never been attended to in any public transactions in any public transactions in any public transactions if then ye nations of europe interest if then ye nations of europe interest if then ye nations of europe interest alone can exert its influence over you alone can exert its influence over you alone can exert its influence over you listen to me once more listen to me once more listen to me once more your slaves stand in no need either of your slaves stand in no need either of your slaves stand in no need either of your generosity or your councils in your generosity or your councils in your generosity or your councils in order to break the sacrilegious yoke of order to break the sacrilegious yoke of order to break the sacrilegious yoke of their oppression their oppression their oppression nature speaks a more powerful language nature speaks a more powerful language nature speaks a more powerful language than philosophy or interests than philosophy or interests than philosophy or interests end quote end quote end quote he then points out that there are slave he then points out that there are slave he then points out that there are slave societies that have already lost a bunch societies that have already lost a bunch societies that have already lost a bunch of slaves to something known as maroon of slaves to something known as maroon of slaves to something known as maroon age which means they run away and create age which means they run away and create age which means they run away and create their own societies uh and start to their own societies uh and start to their own societies uh and start to create communities and and so he says create communities and and so he says create communities and and so he says that you've already got a couple of that you've already got a couple of that you've already got a couple of these these these and then he says this is sort of these and then he says this is sort of these and then he says this is sort of these are the little indications of the big are the little indications of the big are the little indications of the big earthquake coming he says quote earthquake coming he says quote earthquake coming he says quote these are so many indications of the these are so many indications of the these are so many indications of the impending storm and the negroes only impending storm and the negroes only impending storm and the negroes only want a chief sufficiently courageous to want a chief sufficiently courageous to want a chief sufficiently courageous to lead them on to vengeance and slaughter lead them on to vengeance and slaughter lead them on to vengeance and slaughter where is this great man he writes whom where is this great man he writes whom where is this great man he writes whom nature owes to her afflicted oppressed nature owes to her afflicted oppressed nature owes to her afflicted oppressed and tormented children where is he and tormented children where is he and tormented children where is he he will undoubtedly appear he will show he will undoubtedly appear he will show he will undoubtedly appear he will show himself he will lift up the sacred himself he will lift up the sacred himself he will lift up the sacred standard of liberty standard of liberty standard of liberty end quote end quote end quote this is weaponized philosophy isn't it this is weaponized philosophy isn't it this is weaponized philosophy isn't it and he's warning and he's warning and he's warning about what'll happen if you don't pay

about what'll happen if you don't pay about what'll happen if you don't pay attention to it attention to it attention to it and you can see how dangerous something and you can see how dangerous something and you can see how dangerous something like this would look to slaveholders like this would look to slaveholders like this would look to slaveholders because when reynald's sacred standard because when reynald's sacred standard because when reynald's sacred standard of liberty is raised of liberty is raised of liberty is raised all the downtroddens see their all the downtroddens see their all the downtroddens see their opportunity at the same time to throw opportunity at the same time to throw opportunity at the same time to throw off their yoke of slavery right off their yoke of slavery right off their yoke of slavery right what screws up slave revolts most of the what screws up slave revolts most of the what screws up slave revolts most of the time is small little groups of people time is small little groups of people time is small little groups of people revolt and they're crushed what if revolt and they're crushed what if revolt and they're crushed what if everybody did it at the same time under everybody did it at the same time under everybody did it at the same time under coordinated leadership coordinated leadership coordinated leadership reynolds basically saying you better reynolds basically saying you better reynolds basically saying you better find a soft landing from slavery before find a soft landing from slavery before find a soft landing from slavery before that happens or it's going to be a that happens or it's going to be a that happens or it's going to be a bloodbath bloodbath bloodbath he says that the signal itself will he says that the signal itself will he says that the signal itself will precipitate precipitate precipitate a massive response quote this venerable a massive response quote this venerable a massive response quote this venerable signal will collect around him the signal will collect around him the signal will collect around him the companions of his misfortunes companions of his misfortunes companions of his misfortunes they will rush on with more impetuosity they will rush on with more impetuosity they will rush on with more impetuosity than torrents than torrents than torrents they will leave behind them in all parts they will leave behind them in all parts they will leave behind them in all parts indelible traces of their just indelible traces of their just indelible traces of their just resentment resentment resentment spaniards portuguese english french spaniards portuguese english french spaniards portuguese english french dutch all their tyrants will become the dutch all their tyrants will become the dutch all their tyrants will become the victims of fire and sword victims of fire and sword victims of fire and sword the plains of america will suck up with the plains of america will suck up with the plains of america will suck up with transport the blood which they have so transport the blood which they have so transport the blood which they have so long expected and the bones of so many long expected and the bones of so many long expected and the bones of so many wretches heaped upon one another during wretches heaped upon one another during wretches heaped upon one another during the course of many centuries will be the course of many centuries will be the course of many centuries will be bound for joy bound for joy bound for joy the old world will join its plaudits to the old world will join its plaudits to the old world will join its plaudits to those of the new those of the new those of the new in all parts the name of the hero who in all parts the name of the hero who in all parts the name of the hero who shall have restored the rights of the shall have restored the rights of the shall have restored the rights of the human species will be blessed in all

human species will be blessed in all human species will be blessed in all parts trophies will be erected to his parts trophies will be erected to his parts trophies will be erected to his glory glory glory end quote what reino is saying here is that what reino is saying here is that inevitably some great black leader is inevitably some great black leader is inevitably some great black leader is going to arise that can unite these going to arise that can unite these going to arise that can unite these people and coordinate their activities people and coordinate their activities people and coordinate their activities and then it's game over and then it's game over and then it's game over especially in these places where the especially in these places where the especially in these places where the slaves outnumber the slaveholders eight slaves outnumber the slaveholders eight slaves outnumber the slaveholders eight nine ten to one nine ten to one nine ten to one now in fairness r these may not be now in fairness r these may not be now in fairness r these may not be reyno's words he had several reyno's words he had several reyno's words he had several contributors working on this work that i contributors working on this work that i contributors working on this work that i just quoted from and it may be one of just quoted from and it may be one of just quoted from and it may be one of the contributors words but where i know the contributors words but where i know the contributors words but where i know he's gonna get the majority of the blame he's gonna get the majority of the blame he's gonna get the majority of the blame or the credit depending on which way or the credit depending on which way or the credit depending on which way you view this there's going to be in the writings to there's going to be in the writings to this real sense of once this happens this real sense of once this happens this real sense of once this happens it's going to be turnabout is fair play it's going to be turnabout is fair play it's going to be turnabout is fair play time time time and the writer rayno i'm going to assume and the writer rayno i'm going to assume and the writer rayno i'm going to assume but not sure but not sure but not sure says that the black codes these gestapo says that the black codes these gestapo says that the black codes these gestapo like codes like codes like codes that black folks are living under in that black folks are living under in that black folks are living under in some of these places are going to be some of these places are going to be some of these places are going to be replaced by the white codes replaced by the white codes replaced by the white codes and the white codes if they're only as and the white codes if they're only as and the white codes if they're only as bad to white folks as the black codes bad to white folks as the black codes bad to white folks as the black codes were to black folks are going to be were to black folks are going to be were to black folks are going to be terrible terrible terrible you didn't have to be an enlightenment you didn't have to be an enlightenment you didn't have to be an enlightenment genius to know that the slave revolts genius to know that the slave revolts genius to know that the slave revolts were coming he talked about some of were coming he talked about some of were coming he talked about some of these maroon societies but they've these maroon societies but they've these maroon societies but they've always been slave revolts it comes with always been slave revolts it comes with always been slave revolts it comes with the territory if you're going to have the territory if you're going to have the territory if you're going to have slaves they're either going to try to slaves they're either going to try to slaves they're either going to try to run away which is the number one way run away which is the number one way run away which is the number one way that they sort of revolt or they're that they sort of revolt or they're that they sort of revolt or they're going to band together and try to take

going to band together and try to take going to band together and try to take their freedom their freedom their freedom the vast vast majority of those who took the vast vast majority of those who took the vast vast majority of those who took this option this option this option died died died the lucky ones quickly maybe like a the lucky ones quickly maybe like a the lucky ones quickly maybe like a fighter in spartacus's army that loses fighter in spartacus's army that loses fighter in spartacus's army that loses their life fighting against the roman their life fighting against the roman their life fighting against the roman legions that would be a good death legions that would be a good death legions that would be a good death compared to what happens compared to what happens compared to what happens to slaves who fall back into the hands to slaves who fall back into the hands to slaves who fall back into the hands of their enslavers after revolt of their enslavers after revolt of their enslavers after revolt the punishments that those people get i the punishments that those people get i the punishments that those people get i mean they're legendary and they're meant mean they're legendary and they're meant mean they're legendary and they're meant to be to be to be almost theatrical sometimes in terms of almost theatrical sometimes in terms of almost theatrical sometimes in terms of display because it's sending a message display because it's sending a message display because it's sending a message to the slaves that are still around to the slaves that are still around to the slaves that are still around don't try this again look at what don't try this again look at what don't try this again look at what happened to these people who did try so happened to these people who did try so happened to these people who did try so everyone's aware of the odds right the best case scenario is uh visible you the best case scenario is uh visible you can see it in the americas all during can see it in the americas all during can see it in the americas all during this period it's connected to that word this period it's connected to that word this period it's connected to that word i used earlier maroons or maroon age i used earlier maroons or maroon age i used earlier maroons or maroon age those are people who've created who've those are people who've created who've those are people who've created who've run away from their enslavers in places run away from their enslavers in places run away from their enslavers in places like jamaica for example and they run like jamaica for example and they run like jamaica for example and they run off into what the australians would call off into what the australians would call off into what the australians would call the bush the bush the bush and they meet up with other people and they meet up with other people and they meet up with other people who've run away oftentimes indigenous who've run away oftentimes indigenous who've run away oftentimes indigenous people in these places are also a part people in these places are also a part people in these places are also a part of the story and slowly but surely as of the story and slowly but surely as of the story and slowly but surely as their numbers grow they create their numbers grow they create their numbers grow they create communities that can start to defend communities that can start to defend communities that can start to defend themselves a little bit and most of all themselves a little bit and most of all themselves a little bit and most of all provide a place for the people who are provide a place for the people who are provide a place for the people who are still enslaved to figure out how to get still enslaved to figure out how to get still enslaved to figure out how to get to i mean the number one question has to to i mean the number one question has to to i mean the number one question has to be when you run away is what's the first be when you run away is what's the first be when you run away is what's the first thing i do which direction do i go thing i do which direction do i go thing i do which direction do i go well this provides an answer to that well this provides an answer to that well this provides an answer to that question you go towards that direction

question you go towards that direction question you go towards that direction and you try to find the maroon community and you try to find the maroon community and you try to find the maroon community and they're going to be looking for you and they're going to be looking for you and they're going to be looking for you and maybe they'll even be able to help and maybe they'll even be able to help and maybe they'll even be able to help ward off your pursuers if you can get to ward off your pursuers if you can get to ward off your pursuers if you can get to them these things could get very big by them these things could get very big by them these things could get very big by the way and become very important in the the way and become very important in the the way and become very important in the 1600s in brazil enough of the slaves 1600s in brazil enough of the slaves 1600s in brazil enough of the slaves managed to run away for a big community managed to run away for a big community managed to run away for a big community to develop and this involved both the to develop and this involved both the to develop and this involved both the dutch and the portuguese and they'd be dutch and the portuguese and they'd be dutch and the portuguese and they'd be fighting with regular troops at one fighting with regular troops at one fighting with regular troops at one point a 5 000 estimated 5 000 person point a 5 000 estimated 5 000 person point a 5 000 estimated 5 000 person community was was destroyed only to have community was was destroyed only to have community was was destroyed only to have another one a rise i think that was another one a rise i think that was another one a rise i think that was between 15 and 20 000 people and the between 15 and 20 000 people and the between 15 and 20 000 people and the portuguese had to attack it and when portuguese had to attack it and when portuguese had to attack it and when they eventually steamrolled it they eventually steamrolled it they eventually steamrolled it after a while the leaders of that um after a while the leaders of that um after a while the leaders of that um maroon community i think committed maroon community i think committed maroon community i think committed suicide rather than subject themselves suicide rather than subject themselves suicide rather than subject themselves to what happens to people after slave to what happens to people after slave to what happens to people after slave revolts revolts revolts but through the 1700s you'll see these but through the 1700s you'll see these but through the 1700s you'll see these maroon communities pop up maroon communities pop up maroon communities pop up so if the choices in a slave revolt are so if the choices in a slave revolt are so if the choices in a slave revolt are losing your life losing your life losing your life or becoming part of a maroon community or becoming part of a maroon community or becoming part of a maroon community it's a no-brainer right the maroon it's a no-brainer right the maroon it's a no-brainer right the maroon community is a best-case scenario but community is a best-case scenario but community is a best-case scenario but after the french revolution a door opens after the french revolution a door opens after the french revolution a door opens to to to a potentially a potentially a potentially better case scenario if you're looking better case scenario if you're looking better case scenario if you're looking at this at this at this from a slave point of view if you're from a slave point of view if you're from a slave point of view if you're looking at it from a slave owner point looking at it from a slave owner point looking at it from a slave owner point of view it is the worst case scenario what if the slaves what if the slaves won won won what if instead of what if instead of what if instead of the choices being a loss

the choices being a loss the choices being a loss or a stalemate in a maroon community or a stalemate in a maroon community or a stalemate in a maroon community what if the slaves were victorious what if the slaves were victorious what if the slaves were victorious that's got to be the worst nightmare the that's got to be the worst nightmare the that's got to be the worst nightmare the worst case scenario for a slave owner worst case scenario for a slave owner worst case scenario for a slave owner and the best case scenario for a slave i and the best case scenario for a slave i and the best case scenario for a slave i would think would think would think but when has that ever happened but when has that ever happened but when has that ever happened i mean go look at your history books i mean go look at your history books i mean go look at your history books successful slave revolts especially successful slave revolts especially successful slave revolts especially large successful slave revolts are large successful slave revolts are large successful slave revolts are really few and far between really few and far between really few and far between a slave in the caribbean for example the a slave in the caribbean for example the a slave in the caribbean for example the americas anywhere in the 1700s americas anywhere in the 1700s americas anywhere in the 1700s what do they have to look at that would what do they have to look at that would what do they have to look at that would give them any hope at all give them any hope at all give them any hope at all any long shot chance at all any long shot chance at all any long shot chance at all i mean there are a couple of notable i mean there are a couple of notable i mean there are a couple of notable slave rebellions in the 1700s before the slave rebellions in the 1700s before the slave rebellions in the 1700s before the french revolution there's one in jamaica french revolution there's one in jamaica french revolution there's one in jamaica called taki's war and there's another called taki's war and there's another called taki's war and there's another in the dutch colony of berbice in 1763 i in the dutch colony of berbice in 1763 i in the dutch colony of berbice in 1763 i think think think and both of those involved i think it and both of those involved i think it and both of those involved i think it was hundreds in jamaica a few thousand was hundreds in jamaica a few thousand was hundreds in jamaica a few thousand in berbice in berbice in berbice they were both crushed uh although they they were both crushed uh although they they were both crushed uh although they had both had leaders um which is an had both had leaders um which is an had both had leaders um which is an interesting little twist that's gonna interesting little twist that's gonna interesting little twist that's gonna come back come back come back and surprise uh the colonizers who are and surprise uh the colonizers who are and surprise uh the colonizers who are pretty sure that these people that pretty sure that these people that pretty sure that these people that they've enslaved are in in some cases they've enslaved are in in some cases they've enslaved are in in some cases incapable of producing intelligent incapable of producing intelligent incapable of producing intelligent leadership more on that in a second leadership more on that in a second leadership more on that in a second but when the but when the but when the uh jamaican uh rebellion taci's war is uh jamaican uh rebellion taci's war is uh jamaican uh rebellion taci's war is crushed and when the

crushed and when the crushed and when the rebellion in barbies is crushed the rebellion in barbies is crushed the rebellion in barbies is crushed the british in jamaica and the dutch in british in jamaica and the dutch in british in jamaica and the dutch in burbees are brutal burbees are brutal burbees are brutal i mean they'll burn to death a bunch of i mean they'll burn to death a bunch of i mean they'll burn to death a bunch of the people the people the people who were involved in the revolt there who were involved in the revolt there who were involved in the revolt there was a execution that i hadn't even heard was a execution that i hadn't even heard was a execution that i hadn't even heard of that the british are said to have of that the british are said to have of that the british are said to have used in jamaica where they chain up a used in jamaica where they chain up a used in jamaica where they chain up a prisoner and starve them to death prisoner and starve them to death prisoner and starve them to death and it said it took like a week to die and it said it took like a week to die and it said it took like a week to die which must mean that they don't give him which must mean that they don't give him which must mean that they don't give him any water either and i never even heard any water either and i never even heard any water either and i never even heard of that i don't think of that i don't think of that i don't think but it shows you but it shows you but it shows you no successful slave revolts for slaves no successful slave revolts for slaves no successful slave revolts for slaves to look at as inspiration consequences to look at as inspiration consequences to look at as inspiration consequences that are through the roof when the that are through the roof when the that are through the roof when the inevitable happens inevitable happens inevitable happens so so so these slave rebellions that have these slave rebellions that have these slave rebellions that have happened have happened where the people happened have happened where the people happened have happened where the people have no hope have no hope have no hope what on god's green earth will happen if what on god's green earth will happen if what on god's green earth will happen if you give them hope you give them hope you give them hope and of course as we've been talking and of course as we've been talking and of course as we've been talking about it's sort of ironic that the about it's sort of ironic that the about it's sort of ironic that the people that end up providing people that end up providing people that end up providing this outlet to hope might be a good way this outlet to hope might be a good way this outlet to hope might be a good way to put it are a bunch of to put it are a bunch of to put it are a bunch of mostly wealthy mostly wealthy mostly wealthy white males of property white males of property white males of property some of that property being slaves some of that property being slaves some of that property being slaves in north america in north america in north america in the seventeen seventies right so in the seventeen seventies right so in the seventeen seventies right so tacky's worse in 1760 the barbies revolt tacky's worse in 1760 the barbies revolt tacky's worse in 1760 the barbies revolt 1763 so you miss that by 1763 so you miss that by 1763 so you miss that by like a decade or a dozen years and all like a decade or a dozen years and all like a decade or a dozen years and all of a sudden the rationales change of a sudden the rationales change of a sudden the rationales change and you have this and you have this and you have this hypocritical situation that can be hypocritical situation that can be hypocritical situation that can be exploited in the language and when the exploited in the language and when the exploited in the language and when the american revolution happens the

american revolution happens the american revolution happens the pandora's box of intellectual contagions pandora's box of intellectual contagions pandora's box of intellectual contagions has opened the french revolution a few has opened the french revolution a few has opened the french revolution a few years later years later years later manages to create even more virulent manages to create even more virulent manages to create even more virulent strains of this dangerous intellectual strains of this dangerous intellectual strains of this dangerous intellectual idea idea idea and spread it even farther and spread it even farther and spread it even farther and there's a lot of ambiguity in the and there's a lot of ambiguity in the and there's a lot of ambiguity in the language of both the american and french language of both the american and french language of both the american and french versions of these enlightenment versions of these enlightenment versions of these enlightenment documents i mean for example when documents i mean for example when documents i mean for example when the declaration of independence says all the declaration of independence says all the declaration of independence says all men are created equal what's the status men are created equal what's the status men are created equal what's the status of women in that line of women in that line of women in that line or when the declaration of the rights of or when the declaration of the rights of or when the declaration of the rights of man and the citizen says all men are man and the citizen says all men are man and the citizen says all men are free and equal does that include slaves free and equal does that include slaves free and equal does that include slaves non-white folk it's non-white folk it's non-white folk it's well it's just begging for clarification well it's just begging for clarification well it's just begging for clarification isn't it and in 1790 isn't it and in 1790 isn't it and in 1790 some representatives from the french some representatives from the french some representatives from the french caribbean where the french have lots of caribbean where the french have lots of caribbean where the french have lots of slaves slaves slaves come to paris to talk about their status come to paris to talk about their status come to paris to talk about their status uh and how it relates to the language uh and how it relates to the language uh and how it relates to the language coming out of paris you know all this coming out of paris you know all this coming out of paris you know all this high falutin marketing material high falutin marketing material high falutin marketing material about equal rights and freedom and all about equal rights and freedom and all about equal rights and freedom and all that so these gentlemen show up in paris that so these gentlemen show up in paris that so these gentlemen show up in paris and ask for theirs and ask for theirs and ask for theirs their equal rights these men are from the french colony of these men are from the french colony of saint-domingue we mentioned it earlier saint-domingue we mentioned it earlier saint-domingue we mentioned it earlier it's haiti now it's haiti now it's haiti now it is the it is the it is the richest of all the french colonies and richest of all the french colonies and richest of all the french colonies and these men are being discriminated these men are being discriminated these men are being discriminated against because of their african against because of their african against because of their african heritage heritage heritage and i say african heritage because and i say african heritage because and i say african heritage because you don't have to have very much african you don't have to have very much african you don't have to have very much african heritage at all

heritage at all heritage at all in a place like san deming in the 1700s in a place like san deming in the 1700s in a place like san deming in the 1700s to be discriminated against to be discriminated against to be discriminated against and a term that we would use for these and a term that we would use for these and a term that we would use for these men today maybe you would say that they men today maybe you would say that they men today maybe you would say that they were biracial were biracial were biracial would be woefully inadequate as seen would be woefully inadequate as seen would be woefully inadequate as seen from the people of a place like from the people of a place like from the people of a place like saint-domingue who would require saint-domingue who would require saint-domingue who would require much greater levels of specificity as to much greater levels of specificity as to much greater levels of specificity as to the percentages involved in the racial the percentages involved in the racial the percentages involved in the racial mix mix mix biracial wouldn't tell them enough about biracial wouldn't tell them enough about biracial wouldn't tell them enough about your background they're going to want to your background they're going to want to your background they're going to want to use words and i had to look this one up use words and i had to look this one up use words and i had to look this one up i was so fascinated with the the word i i was so fascinated with the the word i i was so fascinated with the the word i looked it up i hope it's not offensive looked it up i hope it's not offensive looked it up i hope it's not offensive but but but almost all of them are going to be the almost all of them are going to be the almost all of them are going to be the word was quadroon word was quadroon word was quadroon and a quadroon is somebody who is a and a quadroon is somebody who is a and a quadroon is somebody who is a quarter block when you live in a society quarter block when you live in a society quarter block when you live in a society where it's important enough to have where it's important enough to have where it's important enough to have words to denote that level of ancestry words to denote that level of ancestry words to denote that level of ancestry you know you live in a race obsessed you know you live in a race obsessed you know you live in a race obsessed place and sandoming is race obsessed historian jeremy d popkin in his book historian jeremy d popkin in his book facing racial revolution which is a book facing racial revolution which is a book facing racial revolution which is a book of primary sources so he's reading the of primary sources so he's reading the of primary sources so he's reading the mail of these people uh in sandoming mail of these people uh in sandoming mail of these people uh in sandoming during this era that we're about to get during this era that we're about to get during this era that we're about to get into and he says the first thing that into and he says the first thing that into and he says the first thing that they mention about anybody that they they mention about anybody that they they mention about anybody that they talk about in the in the letters is talk about in the in the letters is talk about in the in the letters is their racial makeup their racial makeup their racial makeup so that this is the primary so that this is the primary so that this is the primary lens through which they view the world lens through which they view the world lens through which they view the world so we have to view it through that a so we have to view it through that a so we have to view it through that a little bit ourselves little bit ourselves little bit ourselves there has always been there has always been there has always been bigotry bigotry bigotry there has always been prejudice there there has always been prejudice there there has always been prejudice there has always been ethnocentrism in human

has always been ethnocentrism in human has always been ethnocentrism in human history that's just humanity go read history that's just humanity go read history that's just humanity go read your ancient greek right how many of your ancient greek right how many of your ancient greek right how many of those authors divide the world into two those authors divide the world into two those authors divide the world into two kinds of people greeks and barbarians kinds of people greeks and barbarians kinds of people greeks and barbarians that's not unusual at all how many that's not unusual at all how many that's not unusual at all how many indigenous peoples name for themselves indigenous peoples name for themselves indigenous peoples name for themselves are the people or just people are the people or just people are the people or just people what does that mean everybody else is so what does that mean everybody else is so what does that mean everybody else is so this is not abnormal at all but it's not this is not abnormal at all but it's not this is not abnormal at all but it's not the same thing as modern the same thing as modern the same thing as modern racism racism racism which you see really developing in forms which you see really developing in forms which you see really developing in forms that look familiar to us in the 1600s that look familiar to us in the 1600s that look familiar to us in the 1600s and 1700s so that's pretty recent in the and 1700s so that's pretty recent in the and 1700s so that's pretty recent in the old days everybody discriminated against old days everybody discriminated against old days everybody discriminated against everybody except for those wonderful everybody except for those wonderful everybody except for those wonderful societies that mess up the curve societies that mess up the curve societies that mess up the curve a couple of these polynesian places some a couple of these polynesian places some a couple of these polynesian places some other societies where they're just you other societies where they're just you other societies where they're just you know like sickeningly welcoming and know like sickeningly welcoming and know like sickeningly welcoming and trustworthy but otherwise most humanity trustworthy but otherwise most humanity trustworthy but otherwise most humanity is um is um is um a little standoffish a little standoffish a little standoffish but that's not the same as racism where but that's not the same as racism where but that's not the same as racism where it's based on skin color it's uh it's based on skin color it's uh it's based on skin color it's uh supposedly connected to you know the supposedly connected to you know the supposedly connected to you know the ingrained biology of the people involved ingrained biology of the people involved ingrained biology of the people involved and one group is inherently inferior and and one group is inherently inferior and and one group is inherently inferior and that all dates from this era in fact i that all dates from this era in fact i that all dates from this era in fact i was reading was reading was reading popkin's book that we just referenced popkin's book that we just referenced popkin's book that we just referenced and he was talking about the fact that and he was talking about the fact that and he was talking about the fact that the island uh colony where these people the island uh colony where these people the island uh colony where these people who come to paris in october 1790 where who come to paris in october 1790 where who come to paris in october 1790 where they come from is is ground zero in like they come from is is ground zero in like they come from is is ground zero in like the birth of the pseudoscientific side the birth of the pseudoscientific side the birth of the pseudoscientific side of racism this is sort of the darker of racism this is sort of the darker of racism this is sort of the darker side of the enlightenment we've been side of the enlightenment we've been side of the enlightenment we've been praising the liberty and equality and praising the liberty and equality and praising the liberty and equality and freedom side of things but it also comes freedom side of things but it also comes freedom side of things but it also comes with this side which is really sort of with this side which is really sort of with this side which is really sort of the early building blocks of modern the early building blocks of modern the early building blocks of modern science so i suppose we don't get to

science so i suppose we don't get to science so i suppose we don't get to where we are today without these people where we are today without these people where we are today without these people uh laying the brickwork for it but at uh laying the brickwork for it but at uh laying the brickwork for it but at the same time you get these outrageous the same time you get these outrageous the same time you get these outrageous sorts of sorts of sorts of seemingly you know scientifically proven seemingly you know scientifically proven seemingly you know scientifically proven ideas like you know some races are ideas like you know some races are ideas like you know some races are inferior and others are superior i mean inferior and others are superior i mean inferior and others are superior i mean popkin writes quote popkin writes quote popkin writes quote revolutionary saint domingue was one of revolutionary saint domingue was one of revolutionary saint domingue was one of the birthplaces of modern the birthplaces of modern the birthplaces of modern pseudo-scientific racism in 1790 the pseudo-scientific racism in 1790 the pseudo-scientific racism in 1790 the baron de beauvoir a member of the royal baron de beauvoir a member of the royal baron de beauvoir a member of the royal academy of sciences and arts in cap academy of sciences and arts in cap academy of sciences and arts in cap francais which is in saint-domingue francais which is in saint-domingue francais which is in saint-domingue became one of the first authors to became one of the first authors to became one of the first authors to assert unequivocally that blacks were an assert unequivocally that blacks were an assert unequivocally that blacks were an inherently inferior species of humanity inherently inferior species of humanity inherently inferior species of humanity quote now quoting the baron different quote now quoting the baron different quote now quoting the baron different from the white race physically and from the white race physically and from the white race physically and morally their faculties so to speak morally their faculties so to speak morally their faculties so to speak non-existent non-existent non-existent end quote uh then popkin points out that end quote uh then popkin points out that end quote uh then popkin points out that none of the letter writers that he was none of the letter writers that he was none of the letter writers that he was looking you know whose rate mail he was looking you know whose rate mail he was looking you know whose rate mail he was reading um endorsed such a view he says reading um endorsed such a view he says reading um endorsed such a view he says although they all accepted the notion although they all accepted the notion although they all accepted the notion that whites represented a higher level that whites represented a higher level that whites represented a higher level of civilization than blacks in what is slavery historian brenda e in what is slavery historian brenda e stevenson says the same thing about the stevenson says the same thing about the stevenson says the same thing about the american founding fathers that basically american founding fathers that basically american founding fathers that basically none of them considered blacks they're none of them considered blacks they're none of them considered blacks they're equal but what this tells you is how equal but what this tells you is how equal but what this tells you is how commonplace this view uh is at the time commonplace this view uh is at the time commonplace this view uh is at the time and think about what a worldview that is and think about what a worldview that is and think about what a worldview that is right if that's your reality and you right if that's your reality and you right if that's your reality and you judge everything through that prism judge everything through that prism judge everything through that prism think about how that changes your think about how that changes your think about how that changes your decision making the way you evaluate

decision making the way you evaluate decision making the way you evaluate situations now going hand in hand with these kinds now going hand in hand with these kinds of scientific pronouncements and of scientific pronouncements and of scientific pronouncements and attitudes attitudes attitudes are changes in the law on the ground so are changes in the law on the ground so are changes in the law on the ground so the people that become troublesome for the people that become troublesome for the people that become troublesome for societies like sandoming are not the societies like sandoming are not the societies like sandoming are not the slaves because they know their place slaves because they know their place slaves because they know their place because they're kept in their place because they're kept in their place because they're kept in their place through force and violence through force and violence through force and violence it's the people it's the people it's the people who have african blood in other words who have african blood in other words who have african blood in other words whose ancestors had been slaves who are whose ancestors had been slaves who are whose ancestors had been slaves who are now free now free now free and whose status in the society is sort and whose status in the society is sort and whose status in the society is sort of floating what happens if some of of floating what happens if some of of floating what happens if some of these people who have these people who have these people who have black ancestry become black ancestry become black ancestry become very rich running plantations does that very rich running plantations does that very rich running plantations does that make them the make them the make them the you know the the local superior in the you know the the local superior in the you know the the local superior in the hierarchy to poor white artisans hierarchy to poor white artisans hierarchy to poor white artisans and you're going to begin to see laws and you're going to begin to see laws and you're going to begin to see laws written to make sure written to make sure written to make sure that everyone keeps their place no that everyone keeps their place no that everyone keeps their place no matter how well they start to be doing matter how well they start to be doing matter how well they start to be doing in society in society in society and you'll see laws like this throughout and you'll see laws like this throughout and you'll see laws like this throughout the americas in in different slave the americas in in different slave the americas in in different slave states and it'll all be different as we states and it'll all be different as we states and it'll all be different as we said before the experience is different said before the experience is different said before the experience is different in all these different slave societies in all these different slave societies in all these different slave societies based on you know who the mother country based on you know who the mother country based on you know who the mother country is what the dominant religion is the way is what the dominant religion is the way is what the dominant religion is the way slavery develops the crops involved so slavery develops the crops involved so slavery develops the crops involved so so there's no unanimity but this is a so there's no unanimity but this is a so there's no unanimity but this is a good example of the trend good example of the trend good example of the trend so saint domingue for example is one of so saint domingue for example is one of so saint domingue for example is one of these areas because it's a part of these areas because it's a part of these areas because it's a part of france that covered by the code noir france that covered by the code noir france that covered by the code noir which was uh the 1600s era rules which was uh the 1600s era rules which was uh the 1600s era rules governing how slaves could be treated governing how slaves could be treated governing how slaves could be treated and why not so so setting maybe minimum

and why not so so setting maybe minimum and why not so so setting maybe minimum standards you could say standards you could say standards you could say which was never well enforced and which was never well enforced and which was never well enforced and everything else so um everything else so um everything else so um laurent dubois author of avengers of the laurent dubois author of avengers of the laurent dubois author of avengers of the new world rights quote the code noir new world rights quote the code noir new world rights quote the code noir stipulations about emancipation however stipulations about emancipation however stipulations about emancipation however like those regarding the treatment of like those regarding the treatment of like those regarding the treatment of slaves were steadily undermined during slaves were steadily undermined during slaves were steadily undermined during the 18th century attempting to counter the 18th century attempting to counter the 18th century attempting to counter the increasing size and power of the increasing size and power of the increasing size and power of communities of free people of color communities of free people of color communities of free people of color colonial administrators required masters colonial administrators required masters colonial administrators required masters who freed their slaves to pay liberty who freed their slaves to pay liberty who freed their slaves to pay liberty taxes and they gradually made african taxes and they gradually made african taxes and they gradually made african ancestry a legal liability end quote in ancestry a legal liability end quote in ancestry a legal liability end quote in other words they were getting tired of other words they were getting tired of other words they were getting tired of slaves being freed and turning into slaves being freed and turning into slaves being freed and turning into these kind of people so they were going these kind of people so they were going these kind of people so they were going to charge slave owners money if they to charge slave owners money if they to charge slave owners money if they wanted to free their slaves the liberty wanted to free their slaves the liberty wanted to free their slaves the liberty tax tax tax and then he references the seven years and then he references the seven years and then he references the seven years war which came war which came war which came not that long before the american not that long before the american not that long before the american revolution was between britain and revolution was between britain and revolution was between britain and france and he writes quote france and he writes quote france and he writes quote in the wake of the seven years war in the wake of the seven years war in the wake of the seven years war scattered discriminatory legislation scattered discriminatory legislation scattered discriminatory legislation against free people of color was against free people of color was against free people of color was systematized and expanded a 1764 royal systematized and expanded a 1764 royal systematized and expanded a 1764 royal decree forbade people of african descent decree forbade people of african descent decree forbade people of african descent to practice medicine surgery or pharmacy to practice medicine surgery or pharmacy to practice medicine surgery or pharmacy the next year another decree excluded the next year another decree excluded the next year another decree excluded them from working in legal professions them from working in legal professions them from working in legal professions or in the offices of notaries a 1773 law or in the offices of notaries a 1773 law or in the offices of notaries a 1773 law made it illegal for them to take the made it illegal for them to take the made it illegal for them to take the names of their masters or white names of their masters or white names of their masters or white relatives on the ground that such a relatives on the ground that such a relatives on the ground that such a practice destroyed the there are several practice destroyed the there are several practice destroyed the there are several quotes here from the original document

quotes here from the original document quotes here from the original document the insurmountable barrier which public the insurmountable barrier which public the insurmountable barrier which public opinion had placed between the two opinion had placed between the two opinion had placed between the two communities which government had wisely communities which government had wisely communities which government had wisely preserved end quote preserved end quote preserved end quote there are more attempts to make sure there are more attempts to make sure there are more attempts to make sure that the lines between the various that the lines between the various that the lines between the various communities are more definitively drawn communities are more definitively drawn communities are more definitively drawn he says naming conventions were required he says naming conventions were required he says naming conventions were required so that you couldn't name your child a so that you couldn't name your child a so that you couldn't name your child a name that confused somebody as to maybe name that confused somebody as to maybe name that confused somebody as to maybe their uh their genetic heritage their uh their genetic heritage their uh their genetic heritage and then you couldn't start getting and then you couldn't start getting and then you couldn't start getting uppity he writes quote uppity he writes quote uppity he writes quote a 1779 regulation made it illegal for a 1779 regulation made it illegal for a 1779 regulation made it illegal for free people of color to quote free people of color to quote free people of color to quote affect the dress hairstyles style or affect the dress hairstyles style or affect the dress hairstyles style or bearing of white's end quote and some bearing of white's end quote and some bearing of white's end quote and some local ordinances dubois said forbade local ordinances dubois said forbade local ordinances dubois said forbade them to ride in carriages or to own them to ride in carriages or to own them to ride in carriages or to own certain home furnishings by the time of certain home furnishings by the time of certain home furnishings by the time of the revolution free coloreds he writes the revolution free coloreds he writes the revolution free coloreds he writes were subjected to a variety of laws that were subjected to a variety of laws that were subjected to a variety of laws that discriminated against them solely on the discriminated against them solely on the discriminated against them solely on the basis of race end quote basis of race end quote basis of race end quote doesn't that remind you of like doesn't that remind you of like doesn't that remind you of like sumptuary laws sumptuary laws sumptuary laws you saw this in europe during the period you saw this in europe during the period you saw this in europe during the period where wealthy but non-blue-blooded where wealthy but non-blue-blooded where wealthy but non-blue-blooded merchants were starting to make more merchants were starting to make more merchants were starting to make more money than some of the blue blood money than some of the blue blood money than some of the blue blood nobility back when you know europe was nobility back when you know europe was nobility back when you know europe was so class conscious based on birth and it so class conscious based on birth and it so class conscious based on birth and it was so upsetting to society they was so upsetting to society they was so upsetting to society they sometimes made these rules that just sometimes made these rules that just sometimes made these rules that just said it doesn't matter how much money said it doesn't matter how much money said it doesn't matter how much money these merchants have you're not allowed these merchants have you're not allowed these merchants have you're not allowed to wear this fabric that's just for to wear this fabric that's just for to wear this fabric that's just for people like us so no matter what you do people like us so no matter what you do people like us so no matter what you do no matter how much money you have you're no matter how much money you have you're no matter how much money you have you're not going to be able to wear this kind not going to be able to wear this kind not going to be able to wear this kind of fur around your neck that kind of

of fur around your neck that kind of of fur around your neck that kind of thing thing thing so what they're saying here is no matter so what they're saying here is no matter so what they're saying here is no matter how many plantations you may own no how many plantations you may own no how many plantations you may own no matter how much money you make no matter matter how much money you make no matter matter how much money you make no matter how many sugar cane fields you harvest how many sugar cane fields you harvest how many sugar cane fields you harvest and no matter how many slaves you own and no matter how many slaves you own and no matter how many slaves you own yes these free people of color own yes these free people of color own yes these free people of color own something like a hundred thousand something like a hundred thousand something like a hundred thousand of san diming slaves which is weird but of san diming slaves which is weird but of san diming slaves which is weird but the white colonists are saying you still the white colonists are saying you still the white colonists are saying you still won't be equal to a poor white artisan won't be equal to a poor white artisan won't be equal to a poor white artisan on this island on this island on this island and what all these laws on and what all these laws on and what all these laws on saint-domingue and all the ones that are saint-domingue and all the ones that are saint-domingue and all the ones that are part of the same trend in the 1700s in part of the same trend in the 1700s in part of the same trend in the 1700s in other places in the americas what other places in the americas what other places in the americas what they're doing they're doing they're doing is creating is creating is creating a permanent hereditary caste system a permanent hereditary caste system a permanent hereditary caste system based on based on based on well ethnicity racial origin well ethnicity racial origin well ethnicity racial origin background skin color all these sorts of background skin color all these sorts of background skin color all these sorts of things things things something by the way we still live with something by the way we still live with something by the way we still live with today when i was born the decade i was today when i was born the decade i was today when i was born the decade i was born this caste system was still legally born this caste system was still legally born this caste system was still legally maintained in many u.s states where an maintained in many u.s states where an maintained in many u.s states where an african-american could try to get into a african-american could try to get into a african-american could try to get into a hotel room and there might be a sign in hotel room and there might be a sign in hotel room and there might be a sign in the door that said whites only and that the door that said whites only and that the door that said whites only and that was legal was legal was legal so we're so we're so we're less than a generation away from that less than a generation away from that less than a generation away from that time period and that stuff begins during time period and that stuff begins during time period and that stuff begins during this era because before this era say this era because before this era say this era because before this era say several hundred years before in the several hundred years before in the several hundred years before in the mediterranean for example you might have mediterranean for example you might have mediterranean for example you might have seen all this same sort of bigotry and seen all this same sort of bigotry and seen all this same sort of bigotry and prejudice and laws directed against prejudice and laws directed against prejudice and laws directed against certain kinds of people certain kinds of people certain kinds of people but it likely would have been for but it likely would have been for but it likely would have been for different reasons wouldn't have different reasons wouldn't have different reasons wouldn't have surprised anybody for example in 1400 or surprised anybody for example in 1400 or surprised anybody for example in 1400 or 1500 in the mediterranean to see this

1500 in the mediterranean to see this 1500 in the mediterranean to see this kind of stuff over one's religious kind of stuff over one's religious kind of stuff over one's religious affiliation affiliation affiliation right christians muslims jews all this right christians muslims jews all this right christians muslims jews all this kind of stuff this is the skin color kind of stuff this is the skin color kind of stuff this is the skin color aspect though in the 1700s that we live aspect though in the 1700s that we live aspect though in the 1700s that we live with today where this becomes an with today where this becomes an with today where this becomes an important issue and you have all these important issue and you have all these important issue and you have all these rationales and all of a sudden you have rationales and all of a sudden you have rationales and all of a sudden you have you know aristotle's old slavery ideas you know aristotle's old slavery ideas you know aristotle's old slavery ideas dressed up in a powdered wig dressed up in a powdered wig dressed up in a powdered wig and colored with early enlightenment and colored with early enlightenment and colored with early enlightenment science and poof you get this science and poof you get this science and poof you get this brand new era that these brand new era that these brand new era that these biracial gentlemen in paris are biracial gentlemen in paris are biracial gentlemen in paris are protesting and who wouldn't protesting and who wouldn't protesting and who wouldn't i believe i said i believe i said i believe i said that they got there in 1790 but these that they got there in 1790 but these that they got there in 1790 but these people got there at different times and people got there at different times and people got there at different times and it's the 1790 and 1791 national it's the 1790 and 1791 national it's the 1790 and 1791 national assemblies that they're assemblies that they're assemblies that they're that they're trying to get on their side that they're trying to get on their side that they're trying to get on their side and and and in fairness to the french national in fairness to the french national in fairness to the french national assembly during this time period of assembly during this time period of assembly during this time period of which i am nothing like an expert which i am nothing like an expert which i am nothing like an expert it's a turbulent time they're in the it's a turbulent time they're in the it's a turbulent time they're in the middle of the french revolution so if middle of the french revolution so if middle of the french revolution so if the the the people from saint-domingue who are people from saint-domingue who are people from saint-domingue who are complaining about the hypocrisy of these complaining about the hypocrisy of these complaining about the hypocrisy of these ideas and demanding redress of ideas and demanding redress of ideas and demanding redress of grievances don't get what they're after grievances don't get what they're after grievances don't get what they're after maybe it's just a sign of the times maybe it's just a sign of the times maybe it's just a sign of the times after all there are going to be kings after all there are going to be kings after all there are going to be kings and beheadings and guillotines and and beheadings and guillotines and and beheadings and guillotines and reigns of terror in the not too distant reigns of terror in the not too distant reigns of terror in the not too distant future future future but a disaster in the not too distant but a disaster in the not too distant but a disaster in the not too distant future is exactly what these future is exactly what these future is exactly what these representatives these biracial representatives these biracial representatives these biracial representatives from saint domingue are representatives from saint domingue are representatives from saint domingue are warning about warning about warning about a speech in 1789 in paris vincent o'jay a speech in 1789 in paris vincent o'jay a speech in 1789 in paris vincent o'jay who is a wealthy planter from who is a wealthy planter from who is a wealthy planter from saint-domingue he's mixed race i believe

saint-domingue he's mixed race i believe saint-domingue he's mixed race i believe he's a quadroon i'm not sure that would he's a quadroon i'm not sure that would he's a quadroon i'm not sure that would make him a quarter black but he owns a make him a quarter black but he owns a make him a quarter black but he owns a lot of slaves himself he's one of the lot of slaves himself he's one of the lot of slaves himself he's one of the wealthiest free people of color wealthiest free people of color wealthiest free people of color um in the colony and he tells this um in the colony and he tells this um in the colony and he tells this parisian audience parisian audience parisian audience that that that you better do something quickly and i you better do something quickly and i you better do something quickly and i have a proposal but if we don't do have a proposal but if we don't do have a proposal but if we don't do something disaster will strike something disaster will strike something disaster will strike and he said and he said and he said if the most prompt and effective if the most prompt and effective if the most prompt and effective measures are not taken if firmness measures are not taken if firmness measures are not taken if firmness courage and consistency do not animate courage and consistency do not animate courage and consistency do not animate us all if we do not quickly bundle us all if we do not quickly bundle us all if we do not quickly bundle together all our abilities our means and together all our abilities our means and together all our abilities our means and our effort if we sleep for an instant on our effort if we sleep for an instant on our effort if we sleep for an instant on the edge of the abyss the edge of the abyss the edge of the abyss let us tremble at the moment of our let us tremble at the moment of our let us tremble at the moment of our waking waking waking blood will flow blood will flow blood will flow our property will be invaded the fruits our property will be invaded the fruits our property will be invaded the fruits of our labor destroyed and our homes of our labor destroyed and our homes of our labor destroyed and our homes burned burned burned our neighbors our friends our wives and our neighbors our friends our wives and our neighbors our friends our wives and children will be slaughtered and children will be slaughtered and children will be slaughtered and mutilated the slave will have raised the mutilated the slave will have raised the mutilated the slave will have raised the standard of revolt the islands will be standard of revolt the islands will be standard of revolt the islands will be no more than a vast and fateful inferno no more than a vast and fateful inferno no more than a vast and fateful inferno with commerce destroyed with commerce destroyed with commerce destroyed france will receive a mortal wound and a france will receive a mortal wound and a france will receive a mortal wound and a multitude of decent citizens will be multitude of decent citizens will be multitude of decent citizens will be impoverished ruined we will have lost impoverished ruined we will have lost impoverished ruined we will have lost everything everything everything but gentlemen he said but gentlemen he said but gentlemen he said there is still time to avert the there is still time to avert the there is still time to avert the disaster disaster disaster if the assembly wishes to admit me if it if the assembly wishes to admit me if it if the assembly wishes to admit me if it authorizes me to draw up and submit to authorizes me to draw up and submit to authorizes me to draw up and submit to it my plan it my plan it my plan i will do so with pleasure and even i will do so with pleasure and even i will do so with pleasure and even gratitude and perhaps i will be able to

gratitude and perhaps i will be able to gratitude and perhaps i will be able to contribute to the warding off the storm contribute to the warding off the storm contribute to the warding off the storm that rumbles above our heads that rumbles above our heads that rumbles above our heads end quote if you're at this speech by vincent if you're at this speech by vincent o'jay and you're in the audience and o'jay and you're in the audience and o'jay and you're in the audience and there's a revolution going on and we there's a revolution going on and we there's a revolution going on and we should point out a lot of these should point out a lot of these should point out a lot of these revolutions can also be called civil revolutions can also be called civil revolutions can also be called civil wars wars wars because they're not all the people on because they're not all the people on because they're not all the people on one side so you might be a royalist and one side so you might be a royalist and one side so you might be a royalist and not be interested in this conversation not be interested in this conversation not be interested in this conversation all but assuming that you support the all but assuming that you support the all but assuming that you support the early revolution and the government and early revolution and the government and early revolution and the government and the national assembly and you're the national assembly and you're the national assembly and you're listening to oj say that this terrible listening to oj say that this terrible listening to oj say that this terrible uh disasters on the horizon if we don't uh disasters on the horizon if we don't uh disasters on the horizon if we don't give free people of color what all of give free people of color what all of give free people of color what all of our our our you know materials are saying are you know materials are saying are you know materials are saying are our principles why wouldn't you just do our principles why wouldn't you just do our principles why wouldn't you just do it it seems like a win-win doesn't it it it seems like a win-win doesn't it it it seems like a win-win doesn't it but that's because you have to take into but that's because you have to take into but that's because you have to take into account the other interests that are account the other interests that are account the other interests that are always in play always in play always in play and in the past you know especially the and in the past you know especially the and in the past you know especially the distant past a lot of the little nuances distant past a lot of the little nuances distant past a lot of the little nuances involved in the yes we're going to say involved in the yes we're going to say involved in the yes we're going to say it again zeitgeist of any time period it again zeitgeist of any time period it again zeitgeist of any time period gets squashed and eliminated but look at gets squashed and eliminated but look at gets squashed and eliminated but look at your own life now your own life now your own life now and how many little influences and and how many little influences and and how many little influences and strands of reality are playing and strands of reality are playing and strands of reality are playing and pinging off one another it's like that pinging off one another it's like that pinging off one another it's like that in the past too and a lot of the strands in the past too and a lot of the strands in the past too and a lot of the strands are the same ones that we deal with are the same ones that we deal with are the same ones that we deal with today how about money today how about money today how about money sandoming is worth so much money sandoming is worth so much money sandoming is worth so much money and there are people in paris in 1789 and there are people in paris in 1789 and there are people in paris in 1789 going to similar groups that vincent going to similar groups that vincent going to similar groups that vincent dojie and james raymond are going to dojie and james raymond are going to dojie and james raymond are going to right with they're going with this brand right with they're going with this brand right with they're going with this brand new small fledgling abolitionist group

new small fledgling abolitionist group new small fledgling abolitionist group in france called the friend of the in france called the friend of the in france called the friend of the blacks and they're going around you know blacks and they're going around you know blacks and they're going around you know trying to make their case that this trying to make their case that this trying to make their case that this needs to be needs to be needs to be improved in saint domingue but you also improved in saint domingue but you also improved in saint domingue but you also have representatives of the very wealthy have representatives of the very wealthy have representatives of the very wealthy class and the people making tons of class and the people making tons of class and the people making tons of money on san diming doing the same thing money on san diming doing the same thing money on san diming doing the same thing imagine washington dc today with all the imagine washington dc today with all the imagine washington dc today with all the lobbyists lobbyists lobbyists but sandoming's worth so much money and but sandoming's worth so much money and but sandoming's worth so much money and there's so much clout in that i mean there's so much clout in that i mean there's so much clout in that i mean let's start with the fact that it is let's start with the fact that it is let's start with the fact that it is the dream of every columbus era explorer the dream of every columbus era explorer the dream of every columbus era explorer when they looked at this place and when they looked at this place and when they looked at this place and thought what it could be someday when thought what it could be someday when thought what it could be someday when the yellow bananas are ripe imagine what the yellow bananas are ripe imagine what the yellow bananas are ripe imagine what you could achieve here saint-domingue is you could achieve here saint-domingue is you could achieve here saint-domingue is a colony that shares a colony that shares a colony that shares an island with another colony in the an island with another colony in the an island with another colony in the spanish santo domingo as we said spanish santo domingo as we said spanish santo domingo as we said but san diming itself is about the size but san diming itself is about the size but san diming itself is about the size of vermont of vermont of vermont and it controls and it controls and it controls half the world's approximately half the half the world's approximately half the half the world's approximately half the world's coffee and half the world sugar world's coffee and half the world sugar world's coffee and half the world sugar during this time period how much would a during this time period how much would a during this time period how much would a country be country be country be profiting today if they controlled half profiting today if they controlled half profiting today if they controlled half the world's supply of sugar and coffee the world's supply of sugar and coffee the world's supply of sugar and coffee and at this time period it was actually and at this time period it was actually and at this time period it was actually more valuable because with all the more valuable because with all the more valuable because with all the competition we have now it's not as it's competition we have now it's not as it's competition we have now it's not as it's not as a unique a commodity but at this not as a unique a commodity but at this not as a unique a commodity but at this time period sandoming's control of those time period sandoming's control of those time period sandoming's control of those two commodities makes it one of the most two commodities makes it one of the most two commodities makes it one of the most profitable colonies in the world it is profitable colonies in the world it is profitable colonies in the world it is france's most profitable colony france's most profitable colony france's most profitable colony represents 40 percent of france's represents 40 percent of france's represents 40 percent of france's foreign trade foreign trade foreign trade it produces a ton of other things that it produces a ton of other things that it produces a ton of other things that don't dominate the world market to the don't dominate the world market to the don't dominate the world market to the 50 level 50 level 50 level indigo tobacco cotton the the port is indigo tobacco cotton the the port is indigo tobacco cotton the the port is thriving and bustling and busy all the thriving and bustling and busy all the thriving and bustling and busy all the time

time time i read one author that said that the i read one author that said that the i read one author that said that the profitability of san diming during this profitability of san diming during this profitability of san diming during this time period is is greater than brazil time period is is greater than brazil time period is is greater than brazil and mexico put together equal to the and mexico put together equal to the and mexico put together equal to the original us-13 colonies combined original us-13 colonies combined original us-13 colonies combined so you get an idea of this i mean it's so you get an idea of this i mean it's so you get an idea of this i mean it's it's a giant oil well on a little island it's a giant oil well on a little island it's a giant oil well on a little island and and and the planters are in france saying um do the planters are in france saying um do the planters are in france saying um do you really want to tinker you really want to tinker you really want to tinker with this system that's producing this with this system that's producing this with this system that's producing this kind of wealth but here's the thing that kind of wealth but here's the thing that kind of wealth but here's the thing that system system system involves things that are that are direct involves things that are that are direct involves things that are that are direct contradictions to the declaration of the contradictions to the declaration of the contradictions to the declaration of the rights of man and citizen and stuff like rights of man and citizen and stuff like rights of man and citizen and stuff like that author james wolvin in freedom that author james wolvin in freedom that author james wolvin in freedom explains where all this wealth comes explains where all this wealth comes explains where all this wealth comes from quote from quote from quote the entire system depended of course on the entire system depended of course on the entire system depended of course on african slave labor african slave labor african slave labor by 1789 about six hundred thousand were by 1789 about six hundred thousand were by 1789 about six hundred thousand were at work in the colony over the previous at work in the colony over the previous at work in the colony over the previous century some eight hundred thousand century some eight hundred thousand century some eight hundred thousand africans were landed there in recent africans were landed there in recent africans were landed there in recent years africans had been arriving in huge years africans had been arriving in huge years africans had been arriving in huge numbers almost a quarter of a million in numbers almost a quarter of a million in numbers almost a quarter of a million in the six years between 1784 and 1790.

the six years between 1784 and 1790. the six years between 1784 and 1790. sometimes 30 000 or 40 000 africans sometimes 30 000 or 40 000 africans sometimes 30 000 or 40 000 africans disembarked in a single year disembarked in a single year disembarked in a single year large numbers of them were young men and large numbers of them were young men and large numbers of them were young men and many had been prisoners of war in africa many had been prisoners of war in africa many had been prisoners of war in africa i.e they had military experience i.e they had military experience i.e they had military experience slaves now greatly outnumbered the slaves now greatly outnumbered the slaves now greatly outnumbered the french troops based in the colony and it french troops based in the colony and it french troops based in the colony and it was the european military their offshore was the european military their offshore was the european military their offshore navies and their colonial garrisons that navies and their colonial garrisons that navies and their colonial garrisons that formed the ultimate guarantee of formed the ultimate guarantee of formed the ultimate guarantee of security against dangers posed by the security against dangers posed by the security against dangers posed by the enslaved enslaved enslaved end quote end quote end quote well it wasn't just enslaved workers well it wasn't just enslaved workers well it wasn't just enslaved workers though hundreds of thousands of free though hundreds of thousands of free though hundreds of thousands of free workers in france depended on workers in france depended on workers in france depended on these sand doming exports for their these sand doming exports for their these sand doming exports for their livelihood and if you're a brand new livelihood and if you're a brand new livelihood and if you're a brand new fledgling unstable revolutionary fledgling unstable revolutionary fledgling unstable revolutionary government you sure as heck better care government you sure as heck better care government you sure as heck better care what hundreds of thousands of the people what hundreds of thousands of the people what hundreds of thousands of the people whose support you are championing and whose support you are championing and whose support you are championing and hoping for and relying on you better hoping for and relying on you better hoping for and relying on you better hope they keep their jobs too hope they keep their jobs too hope they keep their jobs too but this kind of explains the other but this kind of explains the other but this kind of explains the other forces at work that might keep the forces at work that might keep the forces at work that might keep the reforms from happening reforms from happening reforms from happening that you know you need to do to keep that you know you need to do to keep that you know you need to do to keep this storm from breaking this storm from breaking this storm from breaking so so so it's too complicated and i don't it's too complicated and i don't it's too complicated and i don't understand it all for me to get into all understand it all for me to get into all understand it all for me to get into all the ins and outs of the affairs of san the ins and outs of the affairs of san the ins and outs of the affairs of san doming and the revolutionary government doming and the revolutionary government doming and the revolutionary government and the things that it does or doesn't and the things that it does or doesn't and the things that it does or doesn't do do do suffice it to say that a lot of times it suffice it to say that a lot of times it suffice it to say that a lot of times it tries to walk a tightrope and remember tries to walk a tightrope and remember tries to walk a tightrope and remember this is an unstable government there's this is an unstable government there's this is an unstable government there's going to be all kinds of things in the going to be all kinds of things in the going to be all kinds of things in the future here as we said that that future here as we said that that future here as we said that that threaten this government and make them threaten this government and make them threaten this government and make them keep their eyes right on what's in front keep their eyes right on what's in front keep their eyes right on what's in front of them as opposed to something going on

of them as opposed to something going on of them as opposed to something going on in a faraway colony even when as in a faraway colony even when as in a faraway colony even when as valuable as san doming valuable as san doming valuable as san doming but they have to pay attention but they have to pay attention but they have to pay attention when when when you know the horrible affairs that look you know the horrible affairs that look you know the horrible affairs that look bad go down and one of those horrible bad go down and one of those horrible bad go down and one of those horrible affairs is going to happen in 1790 and affairs is going to happen in 1790 and affairs is going to happen in 1790 and 1791 when vincent oger upset with the 1791 when vincent oger upset with the 1791 when vincent oger upset with the sort of tightrope walking that the sort of tightrope walking that the sort of tightrope walking that the national assembly is doing national assembly is doing national assembly is doing manages maybe to go to the united states manages maybe to go to the united states manages maybe to go to the united states and get a bunch of weapons then go back and get a bunch of weapons then go back and get a bunch of weapons then go back to saint-domingue and launch an to saint-domingue and launch an to saint-domingue and launch an insurrection insurrection insurrection this is not an insurrection designed to this is not an insurrection designed to this is not an insurrection designed to get slavery overturned because after all get slavery overturned because after all get slavery overturned because after all oj and others are slave owners oj and others are slave owners oj and others are slave owners it is a an insurrection to demand it is a an insurrection to demand it is a an insurrection to demand an end to discrimination an end to discrimination an end to discrimination it will not be a particularly heavy duty it will not be a particularly heavy duty it will not be a particularly heavy duty insurrection insurrection insurrection and it will get crushed and oge and and it will get crushed and oge and and it will get crushed and oge and the other leaders of the insurrection the other leaders of the insurrection the other leaders of the insurrection will take refuge on the other side of will take refuge on the other side of will take refuge on the other side of the island in santo domingo but the the island in santo domingo but the the island in santo domingo but the spanish authorities will end up turning spanish authorities will end up turning spanish authorities will end up turning them over to the french colonial them over to the french colonial them over to the french colonial authorities who will kill them authorities who will kill them authorities who will kill them they'll hang i couldn't find the right they'll hang i couldn't find the right they'll hang i couldn't find the right number it's something like 19 20 21 of number it's something like 19 20 21 of number it's something like 19 20 21 of the top leaders but vincent oge and the top leaders but vincent oge and the top leaders but vincent oge and another man another man another man are going to get the sort of treatment are going to get the sort of treatment are going to get the sort of treatment that they're they don't do in france that they're they don't do in france that they're they don't do in france anymore anymore anymore and uh and that certainly has passed its and uh and that certainly has passed its and uh and that certainly has passed its sell-by date in terms of what people are sell-by date in terms of what people are sell-by date in terms of what people are willing to put up with willing to put up with willing to put up with they're going to break vincent ogie on a they're going to break vincent ogie on a they're going to break vincent ogie on a wheel those of you who know about the history those of you who know about the history of executions yes it's a very of executions yes it's a very of executions yes it's a very specialized field

specialized field specialized field know that one of the things that they know that one of the things that they know that one of the things that they did in the french revolution and this is did in the french revolution and this is did in the french revolution and this is again again again the humanitarian baseline is sometimes the humanitarian baseline is sometimes the humanitarian baseline is sometimes so low that what sounds like so low that what sounds like so low that what sounds like improvements are strange sometimes but improvements are strange sometimes but improvements are strange sometimes but the french revolution's famous symbol the french revolution's famous symbol the french revolution's famous symbol that's often associated with it is the that's often associated with it is the that's often associated with it is the guillotine right the beheading machine guillotine right the beheading machine guillotine right the beheading machine the guillotine is designed to be a the guillotine is designed to be a the guillotine is designed to be a humanitarian improvement to what was humanitarian improvement to what was humanitarian improvement to what was commonly done before the guillotine commonly done before the guillotine commonly done before the guillotine what's going to happen to vincent oger what's going to happen to vincent oger what's going to happen to vincent oger in early 1791 as part of his punishment in early 1791 as part of his punishment in early 1791 as part of his punishment for leading this insurrection is exactly for leading this insurrection is exactly for leading this insurrection is exactly what the guillotine was invented to be what the guillotine was invented to be what the guillotine was invented to be an improvement over the breaking on the an improvement over the breaking on the an improvement over the breaking on the wheel is horrific i have not found a wheel is horrific i have not found a wheel is horrific i have not found a first-hand account of oge's particular first-hand account of oge's particular first-hand account of oge's particular version of it i did though in david version of it i did though in david version of it i did though in david gages book the haitian revolution find gages book the haitian revolution find gages book the haitian revolution find the actual sentencing the actual sentencing the actual sentencing and the reason it's important is because and the reason it's important is because and the reason it's important is because to be broken on the wheel can happen all to be broken on the wheel can happen all to be broken on the wheel can happen all sorts of different ways and the sentence sorts of different ways and the sentence sorts of different ways and the sentence determines the way it's done determines the way it's done determines the way it's done sometimes they can kill you first and sometimes they can kill you first and sometimes they can kill you first and then break your body after you're dead then break your body after you're dead then break your body after you're dead but that's pretty merciful normally but that's pretty merciful normally but that's pretty merciful normally that's not how it is and that's not how that's not how it is and that's not how that's not how it is and that's not how it apparently was in oge's case but they it apparently was in oge's case but they it apparently was in oge's case but they take him to the town square and they do take him to the town square and they do take him to the town square and they do this in front of everyone this in front of everyone this in front of everyone the first part of the sentencing the first part of the sentencing the first part of the sentencing statement lays out the charges and what statement lays out the charges and what statement lays out the charges and what they're accused of and found guilty of they're accused of and found guilty of they're accused of and found guilty of the next thing it says as as part of the next thing it says as as part of the next thing it says as as part of making amends for that and this is this making amends for that and this is this making amends for that and this is this goes back to sort of renaissance era goes back to sort of renaissance era goes back to sort of renaissance era executions they have to go carry a

executions they have to go carry a executions they have to go carry a candle and ask amends and say they were candle and ask amends and say they were candle and ask amends and say they were wicked and that sort of thing so they wicked and that sort of thing so they wicked and that sort of thing so they debase you and make you say that debase you and make you say that debase you and make you say that everything that all your friends died everything that all your friends died everything that all your friends died for and everything else was wrong and for and everything else was wrong and for and everything else was wrong and meaningless meaningless meaningless and then they kill you the sentence says and then they kill you the sentence says and then they kill you the sentence says after they have to do the carrying the after they have to do the carrying the after they have to do the carrying the candle around part quote candle around part quote candle around part quote thereafter they shall be led to the main thereafter they shall be led to the main thereafter they shall be led to the main square of this town square of this town square of this town where on the side opposite the one used where on the side opposite the one used where on the side opposite the one used for the execution of whites they shall for the execution of whites they shall for the execution of whites they shall have their arms shins thighs and pelvis have their arms shins thighs and pelvis have their arms shins thighs and pelvis bone broken while alive on a scaffold bone broken while alive on a scaffold bone broken while alive on a scaffold erected for this purpose the high erected for this purpose the high erected for this purpose the high executioner should then place them on a executioner should then place them on a executioner should then place them on a cartwheel with their faces turned toward cartwheel with their faces turned toward cartwheel with their faces turned toward the heaven for however long it pleases the heaven for however long it pleases the heaven for however long it pleases god to maintain their lives thereafter god to maintain their lives thereafter god to maintain their lives thereafter their heads shall be cut off and exposed their heads shall be cut off and exposed their heads shall be cut off and exposed on stakes on stakes on stakes end end end quote in 1791 quote in 1791 quote in 1791 when this is carried out this is a when this is carried out this is a when this is carried out this is a horrific barbaric horrific barbaric horrific barbaric deliberately deliberately deliberately spectacular sort of event it sends a spectacular sort of event it sends a spectacular sort of event it sends a message by saying we're going to do this message by saying we're going to do this message by saying we're going to do this to you to you to you did you notice also did you notice also did you notice also that part of what was supposed to make that part of what was supposed to make that part of what was supposed to make it so debasing is a is it sounds like it so debasing is a is it sounds like it so debasing is a is it sounds like they have dual execution sites and they they have dual execution sites and they they have dual execution sites and they even have a different one for blacks and even have a different one for blacks and even have a different one for blacks and whites to be killed on and you have to whites to be killed on and you have to whites to be killed on and you have to go to the one for black so i mean this go to the one for black so i mean this go to the one for black so i mean this whole thing is full of symbolism whole thing is full of symbolism whole thing is full of symbolism this is meant to intimidate

this is meant to intimidate this is meant to intimidate it is meant to deter it is meant to deter it is meant to deter and it is meant to send a message but and it is meant to send a message but and it is meant to send a message but the question that's interesting in this the question that's interesting in this the question that's interesting in this whole sand domain whole sand domain whole sand domain discussion discussion discussion is is is who's the target of this message who's the target of this message who's the target of this message i mean what is what is the message i mean what is what is the message i mean what is what is the message trying to convey other than the obvious trying to convey other than the obvious trying to convey other than the obvious right if you launch an insurrection this right if you launch an insurrection this right if you launch an insurrection this could happen to you but are they could happen to you but are they could happen to you but are they targeting the mixed race people targeting the mixed race people targeting the mixed race people maybe they're targeting maybe they're targeting maybe they're targeting everybody everybody everybody because what the french revolution is because what the french revolution is because what the french revolution is doing to san doming doing to san doming doing to san doming soon to be haiti soon to be haiti soon to be haiti is tearing it along its already existing is tearing it along its already existing is tearing it along its already existing fracture lines fracture lines fracture lines and that's what makes what's going to and that's what makes what's going to and that's what makes what's going to happen so complicated happen so complicated happen so complicated author james wolven described it as a author james wolven described it as a author james wolven described it as a witch's brew witch's brew witch's brew anarchy is sometimes thrown out there anarchy is sometimes thrown out there anarchy is sometimes thrown out there but i had been looking for a short pithy but i had been looking for a short pithy but i had been looking for a short pithy description of just how description of just how description of just how many sided and divided this place is and many sided and divided this place is and many sided and divided this place is and i didn't run across anything that was i didn't run across anything that was i didn't run across anything that was just right in any of the books that i just right in any of the books that i just right in any of the books that i read and i stumbled upon a quote online read and i stumbled upon a quote online read and i stumbled upon a quote online by french historian paul fragosi i did by french historian paul fragosi i did by french historian paul fragosi i did not read his book i'm sorry to say not read his book i'm sorry to say not read his book i'm sorry to say but the setting up of the situation is but the setting up of the situation is but the setting up of the situation is brilliant brilliant brilliant and gives you a real idea of what kind and gives you a real idea of what kind and gives you a real idea of what kind of fractures we're talking about of fractures we're talking about of fractures we're talking about for gosie writes quote for gosie writes quote for gosie writes quote whites mulattos and blacks loathed each whites mulattos and blacks loathed each whites mulattos and blacks loathed each other the poor whites couldn't stand the other the poor whites couldn't stand the other the poor whites couldn't stand the rich whites the rich whites despised the

rich whites the rich whites despised the rich whites the rich whites despised the poor whites the middle-class whites were poor whites the middle-class whites were poor whites the middle-class whites were jealous of the aristocratic whites the jealous of the aristocratic whites the jealous of the aristocratic whites the whites born in france looked down upon whites born in france looked down upon whites born in france looked down upon the locally born whites mulattos envied the locally born whites mulattos envied the locally born whites mulattos envied the whites despised the blacks and were the whites despised the blacks and were the whites despised the blacks and were despised by the whites free negroes despised by the whites free negroes despised by the whites free negroes brutalized those who were still slaves brutalized those who were still slaves brutalized those who were still slaves haitian-born blacks regarded those from haitian-born blacks regarded those from haitian-born blacks regarded those from africa as savages everyone quite rightly africa as savages everyone quite rightly africa as savages everyone quite rightly lived in terror of everyone else haiti lived in terror of everyone else haiti lived in terror of everyone else haiti was hell but haiti was rich was hell but haiti was rich was hell but haiti was rich end quote end quote end quote so you get an idea here so you get an idea here so you get an idea here that what's about to happen is going to that what's about to happen is going to that what's about to happen is going to be a lot more complicated than just one be a lot more complicated than just one be a lot more complicated than just one group of people like the mixed race group of people like the mixed race group of people like the mixed race people fighting the white plantation people fighting the white plantation people fighting the white plantation owners owners owners it's going to be a seething cauldron of it's going to be a seething cauldron of it's going to be a seething cauldron of changing sides and alliances and i mean changing sides and alliances and i mean changing sides and alliances and i mean think about this one aspect alone if think about this one aspect alone if think about this one aspect alone if there's going to be something like a there's going to be something like a there's going to be something like a race war in san doming race war in san doming race war in san doming which side do the mixed race people join which side do the mixed race people join which side do the mixed race people join see how complicated that might be and see how complicated that might be and see how complicated that might be and what if you had family on both sides we what if you had family on both sides we what if you had family on both sides we always like to say in the united states always like to say in the united states always like to say in the united states about the u.s civil war that it was about the u.s civil war that it was about the u.s civil war that it was brother against brother and you can find brother against brother and you can find brother against brother and you can find examples where that's true examples where that's true examples where that's true but in haiti the mixed race population but in haiti the mixed race population but in haiti the mixed race population there is dealing with it as often as not there is dealing with it as often as not there is dealing with it as often as not family on both sides right in that family on both sides right in that family on both sides right in that little colony little colony little colony and which side do you join and which side do you join and which side do you join now this isn't an issue until august now this isn't an issue until august now this isn't an issue until august 1791 and remember osha is executed in

1791 and remember osha is executed in 1791 and remember osha is executed in february of that same year because until february of that same year because until february of that same year because until then it's just a question between the then it's just a question between the then it's just a question between the whites on the island and the mixed race whites on the island and the mixed race whites on the island and the mixed race folks the slaves as one of my histories folks the slaves as one of my histories folks the slaves as one of my histories put it are on the sidelines watching put it are on the sidelines watching put it are on the sidelines watching until they're not until they're not until they're not and when you have thirty to forty and when you have thirty to forty and when you have thirty to forty thousand whites on the island and thirty thousand whites on the island and thirty thousand whites on the island and thirty to forty thousand free people of color to forty thousand free people of color to forty thousand free people of color on the island when the four hundred on the island when the four hundred on the island when the four hundred thousand to six hundred thousand thousand to six hundred thousand thousand to six hundred thousand enslaved people on the island decide enslaved people on the island decide enslaved people on the island decide that they're going to get involved they that they're going to get involved they that they're going to get involved they become the major player right away become the major player right away become the major player right away and leaders emerge which shock and leaders emerge which shock and leaders emerge which shock the um the um the um the whites on the island many of whom the whites on the island many of whom the whites on the island many of whom refuse to believe that this isn't refuse to believe that this isn't refuse to believe that this isn't somehow white led abolitionists or somehow white led abolitionists or somehow white led abolitionists or priests or people dressed up with priests or people dressed up with priests or people dressed up with charcoal darkened skin leading and charcoal darkened skin leading and charcoal darkened skin leading and organizing everyone here because organizing everyone here because organizing everyone here because their racists world views will not allow their racists world views will not allow their racists world views will not allow them to imagine them to imagine them to imagine that they're and by the way this is not that they're and by the way this is not that they're and by the way this is not me saying this this is in the me saying this this is in the me saying this this is in the the writing write their letters home i the writing write their letters home i the writing write their letters home i mean they sound like conspiracy theories mean they sound like conspiracy theories mean they sound like conspiracy theories but they refuse to believe that the but they refuse to believe that the but they refuse to believe that the people that they knew as slaves are people that they knew as slaves are people that they knew as slaves are capable of doing what they start doing capable of doing what they start doing capable of doing what they start doing on the 21st of august 1791 and one of on the 21st of august 1791 and one of on the 21st of august 1791 and one of the first early leaders to emerge is a the first early leaders to emerge is a the first early leaders to emerge is a is a person known to history as bookman is a person known to history as bookman is a person known to history as bookman sometimes called duddy bookman sometimes called duddy bookman sometimes called duddy bookman and um and um and um laurent dubois in avengers of the new laurent dubois in avengers of the new laurent dubois in avengers of the new world world world describes him this way saying quote describes him this way saying quote describes him this way saying quote the most visible leader during the first the most visible leader during the first the most visible leader during the first days of the insurrection was bookman who

days of the insurrection was bookman who days of the insurrection was bookman who had worked first as a driver and then as had worked first as a driver and then as had worked first as a driver and then as a coachman a coachman a coachman bookman was it is believed a religious bookman was it is believed a religious bookman was it is believed a religious leader a role that would have earned him leader a role that would have earned him leader a role that would have earned him respect among many slaves end quote respect among many slaves end quote respect among many slaves end quote he then says that there's this religious he then says that there's this religious he then says that there's this religious ceremony that happens i've read other ceremony that happens i've read other ceremony that happens i've read other accounts and it sounds positively accounts and it sounds positively accounts and it sounds positively cinematic if it actually went down this cinematic if it actually went down this cinematic if it actually went down this way way way slaves are meeting at night in a sacred slaves are meeting at night in a sacred slaves are meeting at night in a sacred spot with the thunder and the lightning spot with the thunder and the lightning spot with the thunder and the lightning going and the rain pouring down and going and the rain pouring down and going and the rain pouring down and that's supposedly seen as a good omen that's supposedly seen as a good omen that's supposedly seen as a good omen and bookman is there dubois says other accounts describe him dubois says other accounts describe him officiating alongside an old african officiating alongside an old african officiating alongside an old african woman and he describes it from a primary woman and he describes it from a primary woman and he describes it from a primary source or a secondary source saying source or a secondary source saying source or a secondary source saying quote with strange eyes and bristling quote with strange eyes and bristling quote with strange eyes and bristling hair end quote or else he says a hair end quote or else he says a hair end quote or else he says a green-eyed woman of african and corsican green-eyed woman of african and corsican green-eyed woman of african and corsican descent named cecile fatiman descent named cecile fatiman descent named cecile fatiman and then he says quote at the ceremony and then he says quote at the ceremony and then he says quote at the ceremony bookman apparently proclaimed now bookman apparently proclaimed now bookman apparently proclaimed now quoting bookman the god of the white man quoting bookman the god of the white man quoting bookman the god of the white man calls him to commit crimes our god asks calls him to commit crimes our god asks calls him to commit crimes our god asks only good works of us only good works of us only good works of us but this god who is so good orders but this god who is so good orders but this god who is so good orders revenge revenge revenge he will direct our hands he will aid us he will direct our hands he will aid us he will direct our hands he will aid us throw away the image of the god of the throw away the image of the god of the throw away the image of the god of the whites who thirsts for our tears whites who thirsts for our tears whites who thirsts for our tears and listen to the voice of liberty that and listen to the voice of liberty that and listen to the voice of liberty that speaks in the heart of all of us speaks in the heart of all of us speaks in the heart of all of us end quote dubois continues quote those end quote dubois continues quote those end quote dubois continues quote those assembled took an oath of secrecy and

assembled took an oath of secrecy and assembled took an oath of secrecy and revenge sealed by drinking the blood of revenge sealed by drinking the blood of revenge sealed by drinking the blood of a black pig sacrificed before them a black pig sacrificed before them a black pig sacrificed before them it was a form of pact he writes probably it was a form of pact he writes probably it was a form of pact he writes probably derived from the traditions of west derived from the traditions of west derived from the traditions of west africa africa africa end quote end quote end quote we don't have accounts from the slaves we don't have accounts from the slaves we don't have accounts from the slaves who are part of the hit teams that then who are part of the hit teams that then who are part of the hit teams that then take off take off take off in in in search of search of search of plantation owners plantation owners plantation owners overseers overseers overseers anyone really that they run into as they anyone really that they run into as they anyone really that they run into as they go from plantation to plantation go from plantation to plantation go from plantation to plantation killing almost everybody they run into killing almost everybody they run into killing almost everybody they run into and destroying and destroying and destroying the abodes the refineries and then the abodes the refineries and then the abodes the refineries and then setting the sugarcane fields a light setting the sugarcane fields a light setting the sugarcane fields a light we do have accounts and you have to be we do have accounts and you have to be we do have accounts and you have to be careful careful careful because these are the accounts that are because these are the accounts that are because these are the accounts that are going to be used in the american south going to be used in the american south going to be used in the american south to justify all sorts of uh of to justify all sorts of uh of to justify all sorts of uh of restrictions on restrictions on restrictions on people of color to begin with but slaves people of color to begin with but slaves people of color to begin with but slaves also um it's also going to be something also um it's also going to be something also um it's also going to be something that has and this happens in every that has and this happens in every that has and this happens in every uh heavy duty slave revolt one has a way uh heavy duty slave revolt one has a way uh heavy duty slave revolt one has a way because you're reading the accounts of because you're reading the accounts of because you're reading the accounts of the victims who were earlier the the victims who were earlier the the victims who were earlier the victimizers of having sympathy for the victimizers of having sympathy for the victimizers of having sympathy for the people who are on the unjust side of people who are on the unjust side of people who are on the unjust side of this you'll see this in the second world this you'll see this in the second world this you'll see this in the second world war all the time right where when war all the time right where when war all the time right where when atrocious things are done by the morally atrocious things are done by the morally atrocious things are done by the morally superior side seeking morally superior superior side seeking morally superior superior side seeking morally superior outcomes and yet innocents are caught up outcomes and yet innocents are caught up outcomes and yet innocents are caught up in the gears all the time and there are in the gears all the time and there are in the gears all the time and there are plenty of debates about how innocent

plenty of debates about how innocent plenty of debates about how innocent women or children are in a slave society women or children are in a slave society women or children are in a slave society if they've been a part of it if they've been a part of it if they've been a part of it so these first-hand accounts are tough so these first-hand accounts are tough so these first-hand accounts are tough but if they're all you have sometimes but if they're all you have sometimes but if they're all you have sometimes well well well abolitionists will use this kind of abolitionists will use this kind of abolitionists will use this kind of material to argue that this is exactly material to argue that this is exactly material to argue that this is exactly why we have to get rid of slavery asap why we have to get rid of slavery asap why we have to get rid of slavery asap and and and slave proponents will use these sorts of slave proponents will use these sorts of slave proponents will use these sorts of first-hand accounts or alleged first-hand accounts or alleged first-hand accounts or alleged first-hand accounts or rumors of first-hand accounts or rumors of first-hand accounts or rumors of first-hand accounts as ways to say are first-hand accounts as ways to say are first-hand accounts as ways to say are you kidding me this is exactly why we you kidding me this is exactly why we you kidding me this is exactly why we can't lighten up one bit and by the way can't lighten up one bit and by the way can't lighten up one bit and by the way all this happens because of you all this happens because of you all this happens because of you abolitionists stirring up trouble in the abolitionists stirring up trouble in the abolitionists stirring up trouble in the first place and you'll see a lot of first place and you'll see a lot of first place and you'll see a lot of blame for the rights of man and the blame for the rights of man and the blame for the rights of man and the citizen and all these kinds of citizen and all these kinds of citizen and all these kinds of enlightenment ideas philosophies they'll enlightenment ideas philosophies they'll enlightenment ideas philosophies they'll say with a sneer corrupting all these say with a sneer corrupting all these say with a sneer corrupting all these people and accounts of finding you know people and accounts of finding you know people and accounts of finding you know pamphlets with the declaration of rights pamphlets with the declaration of rights pamphlets with the declaration of rights of man and the citizen in the in the of man and the citizen in the in the of man and the citizen in the in the pockets of assassins on the island pockets of assassins on the island pockets of assassins on the island there's an anonymous account of an there's an anonymous account of an there's an anonymous account of an author who was asleep uh in his abode on author who was asleep uh in his abode on author who was asleep uh in his abode on the night of the 22nd of august which is the night of the 22nd of august which is the night of the 22nd of august which is uh you know really when the the accounts uh you know really when the the accounts uh you know really when the the accounts are just getting going and this are just getting going and this are just getting going and this anonymous author anonymous author anonymous author said that said that said that he was awoken quote at the sound of a he was awoken quote at the sound of a he was awoken quote at the sound of a gunshot my dog who was laying in the gunshot my dog who was laying in the gunshot my dog who was laying in the gallery near my bedroom started to bark gallery near my bedroom started to bark gallery near my bedroom started to bark loud enough to wake me loud enough to wake me loud enough to wake me wrongly irritated by this continual wrongly irritated by this continual wrongly irritated by this continual barking i got up to quiet him down and barking i got up to quiet him down and barking i got up to quiet him down and then went back to sleep 15 minutes later then went back to sleep 15 minutes later then went back to sleep 15 minutes later the poor dog started up again even more the poor dog started up again even more the poor dog started up again even more insistently but alas it was too late to insistently but alas it was too late to insistently but alas it was too late to wonder what was happening the blacks had

wonder what was happening the blacks had wonder what was happening the blacks had already taken over all the paths around already taken over all the paths around already taken over all the paths around the french word for the plantation the french word for the plantation the french word for the plantation owner's house owner's house owner's house hearing the noise they were making i hearing the noise they were making i hearing the noise they were making i jumped out of my bed and shouted who jumped out of my bed and shouted who jumped out of my bed and shouted who goes there a voice like thunder answered goes there a voice like thunder answered goes there a voice like thunder answered me it is death me it is death me it is death at the same time i heard a considerable at the same time i heard a considerable at the same time i heard a considerable number of gunshots and the voice of a number of gunshots and the voice of a number of gunshots and the voice of a horde of blacks who filled the house horde of blacks who filled the house horde of blacks who filled the house with these terrible words kill with these terrible words kill with these terrible words kill kill kill kill seeing what was happening and having no seeing what was happening and having no seeing what was happening and having no way to escape i ran to get my pistols way to escape i ran to get my pistols way to escape i ran to get my pistols luckily for me they were not loaded i luckily for me they were not loaded i luckily for me they were not loaded i say luckily because if they had been i say luckily because if they had been i say luckily because if they had been i would have defended myself i would have would have defended myself i would have would have defended myself i would have killed some of these assailants and killed some of these assailants and killed some of these assailants and would not have been able to escape would not have been able to escape would not have been able to escape succumbing to their blows succumbing to their blows succumbing to their blows end quote the fact that that author the fact that that author survived survived survived and was able to give us an accounting of and was able to give us an accounting of and was able to give us an accounting of what he experienced is remarkable what he experienced is remarkable what he experienced is remarkable i got his account by the way out of i got his account by the way out of i got his account by the way out of jeremy d popkin's book jeremy d popkin's book jeremy d popkin's book facing racial revolution facing racial revolution facing racial revolution and when you read his account there are and when you read his account there are and when you read his account there are echoes and vibes that sort of remind me echoes and vibes that sort of remind me echoes and vibes that sort of remind me of reading about the of reading about the of reading about the early early early you know weeks of the cambodian genocide you know weeks of the cambodian genocide you know weeks of the cambodian genocide the killing fields in the 1970s the killing fields in the 1970s the killing fields in the 1970s this feeling of complete this feeling of complete this feeling of complete unsafeness unsafeness unsafeness you know a lack of safety amongst the you know a lack of safety amongst the you know a lack of safety amongst the rank and file like any of these regular rank and file like any of these regular rank and file like any of these regular poor soldiers who were slaves five poor soldiers who were slaves five poor soldiers who were slaves five minutes ago they all want to see you minutes ago they all want to see you minutes ago they all want to see you dead they could kill you at any moment

dead they could kill you at any moment dead they could kill you at any moment and sometimes the only thing and sometimes the only thing and sometimes the only thing keeping you alive is an officer that keeping you alive is an officer that keeping you alive is an officer that says don't kill him in this case says don't kill him in this case says don't kill him in this case the anonymous author of this account the anonymous author of this account the anonymous author of this account says that the person who says that the person who says that the person who told the underlings not to torture and told the underlings not to torture and told the underlings not to torture and kill him kill him kill him was bookman was bookman was bookman the very slave who allegedly conducted the very slave who allegedly conducted the very slave who allegedly conducted the ceremony and the thunder in the the ceremony and the thunder in the the ceremony and the thunder in the lightning and the rain and got this lightning and the rain and got this lightning and the rain and got this thing started thing started thing started saying according to the anonymous author saying according to the anonymous author saying according to the anonymous author himself who knew himself who knew himself who knew bookman bookman bookman that he came in and said this is a good that he came in and said this is a good that he came in and said this is a good white man don't kill him bookman himself will not make it very bookman himself will not make it very far into this slave revolt before far into this slave revolt before far into this slave revolt before he becomes a casualty and they will he becomes a casualty and they will he becomes a casualty and they will parade his parade his parade his head head head cut off and attached to a pike the white cut off and attached to a pike the white cut off and attached to a pike the white colonists will colonists will colonists will thinking that surely this must crush the thinking that surely this must crush the thinking that surely this must crush the revolt at this one really unusual revolt at this one really unusual revolt at this one really unusual leader's done away with but the white leader's done away with but the white leader's done away with but the white colonists are going to be horrified to colonists are going to be horrified to colonists are going to be horrified to find out exactly how many good leaders find out exactly how many good leaders find out exactly how many good leaders the black slave class can produce and the black slave class can produce and the black slave class can produce and the mixed race people on saint-domingue the mixed race people on saint-domingue the mixed race people on saint-domingue can as well the revolt by the way the revolt by the way starts off with um you know believe starts off with um you know believe starts off with um you know believe these numbers or not they're more these numbers or not they're more these numbers or not they're more indicative of trends probably than indicative of trends probably than indicative of trends probably than numbers but it's supposed to start off numbers but it's supposed to start off numbers but it's supposed to start off on the first 24 hours with like 2 000 on the first 24 hours with like 2 000 on the first 24 hours with like 2 000 slaves who will go from plantation to slaves who will go from plantation to slaves who will go from plantation to plantation to plantation picking up more plantation to plantation picking up more plantation to plantation picking up more slaves along the way and perhaps slaves along the way and perhaps slaves along the way and perhaps uh even forcing choices on the other uh even forcing choices on the other uh even forcing choices on the other slaves who might think okay i don't want slaves who might think okay i don't want slaves who might think okay i don't want to get broken on a wheel i'm just going

to get broken on a wheel i'm just going to get broken on a wheel i'm just going to stay here with my family in some of to stay here with my family in some of to stay here with my family in some of these cases they may not be given those these cases they may not be given those these cases they may not be given those choices and that's very revolutionary choices and that's very revolutionary choices and that's very revolutionary like also right you're not allowed to be like also right you're not allowed to be like also right you're not allowed to be neutral pick a side and if it's not our neutral pick a side and if it's not our neutral pick a side and if it's not our side you die here and now so who knows side you die here and now so who knows side you die here and now so who knows but we go from 2 000 in the first 24 but we go from 2 000 in the first 24 but we go from 2 000 in the first 24 hours to an estimated 10 000 in four or hours to an estimated 10 000 in four or hours to an estimated 10 000 in four or five days five days five days to a hundred thousand being the number to a hundred thousand being the number to a hundred thousand being the number you most often see you most often see you most often see i don't know if i believe that but let's i don't know if i believe that but let's i don't know if i believe that but let's say it's 70. say it's 70. say it's 70. uh i don't really believe the roman uh i don't really believe the roman uh i don't really believe the roman slave revolt numbers either because who slave revolt numbers either because who slave revolt numbers either because who believes any of that kind of stuff so believes any of that kind of stuff so believes any of that kind of stuff so you don't know what the largest slave you don't know what the largest slave you don't know what the largest slave revolt is in history but i feel pretty revolt is in history but i feel pretty revolt is in history but i feel pretty comfortable saying that if this isn't comfortable saying that if this isn't comfortable saying that if this isn't the largest slave revolt ever its top the largest slave revolt ever its top the largest slave revolt ever its top three three three and that's going to create an entirely and that's going to create an entirely and that's going to create an entirely different situation than the other slave different situation than the other slave different situation than the other slave revolts that have happened revolts that have happened revolts that have happened uh well since the roman era or maybe uh well since the roman era or maybe uh well since the roman era or maybe since that one in the 800s in since that one in the 800s in since that one in the 800s in the middle east the middle east the middle east i mean if you have a problem if taki's i mean if you have a problem if taki's i mean if you have a problem if taki's war makes the history books with a with war makes the history books with a with war makes the history books with a with a few hundred or several hundred slaves a few hundred or several hundred slaves a few hundred or several hundred slaves in jamaica and the one in burbeast with in jamaica and the one in burbeast with in jamaica and the one in burbeast with three or five thousand slaves is notable three or five thousand slaves is notable three or five thousand slaves is notable what happens when you have a hundred what happens when you have a hundred what happens when you have a hundred thousand and a hundred thousand that thousand and a hundred thousand that thousand and a hundred thousand that outnumber the white colonists outnumber the white colonists outnumber the white colonists uh uh uh it's it's going to be a bloodbath and it's it's going to be a bloodbath and it's it's going to be a bloodbath and it's going to be that sort of pressure it's going to be that sort of pressure it's going to be that sort of pressure that creates concessions that creates concessions that creates concessions that one could never have expected to that one could never have expected to that one could never have expected to have happen then that's what's going to have happen then that's what's going to have happen then that's what's going to change the history of slavery change the history of slavery change the history of slavery if you're on the ground by the way if you're on the ground by the way if you're on the ground by the way though when this you know first couple

though when this you know first couple though when this you know first couple of weeks of this thing starts what of weeks of this thing starts what of weeks of this thing starts what you're seeing is something that everyone you're seeing is something that everyone you're seeing is something that everyone fears in history and thinks about but it fears in history and thinks about but it fears in history and thinks about but it rarely happens it's a race war rarely happens it's a race war rarely happens it's a race war and i'm fascinated by the extremes of and i'm fascinated by the extremes of and i'm fascinated by the extremes of the human experience i think being a the human experience i think being a the human experience i think being a slave in saint-domingue is one of the slave in saint-domingue is one of the slave in saint-domingue is one of the extremes of the human experience but so extremes of the human experience but so extremes of the human experience but so is being a white colonist maybe you're a is being a white colonist maybe you're a is being a white colonist maybe you're a ten-year-old boy and you're in the north ten-year-old boy and you're in the north ten-year-old boy and you're in the north of sandoming when this whole thing of sandoming when this whole thing of sandoming when this whole thing breaks out that's breaks out that's breaks out that's terrifying right terrifying right terrifying right terrifying to be a slave before this terrifying to be a slave before this terrifying to be a slave before this revolt terrifying to be a white colonist revolt terrifying to be a white colonist revolt terrifying to be a white colonist afterwards and let's be honest when you afterwards and let's be honest when you afterwards and let's be honest when you read the accounts terrifying to be a read the accounts terrifying to be a read the accounts terrifying to be a slave insurgent terrified to be amazed i slave insurgent terrified to be amazed i slave insurgent terrified to be amazed i mean there's going to be massacres mean there's going to be massacres mean there's going to be massacres committed in this next 12 or 14-year committed in this next 12 or 14-year committed in this next 12 or 14-year affair by all sides right whites mixed affair by all sides right whites mixed affair by all sides right whites mixed race and slave side race and slave side race and slave side and they're going to be and they're going to be and they're going to be victims on all those sides of massacres victims on all those sides of massacres victims on all those sides of massacres it's horrific there's an account that jeremy d popkin there's an account that jeremy d popkin includes in his facing racial revolution includes in his facing racial revolution includes in his facing racial revolution uh called mon odyssey it's another one uh called mon odyssey it's another one uh called mon odyssey it's another one of these ones that's um of these ones that's um of these ones that's um ostensibly anonymous and this person ostensibly anonymous and this person ostensibly anonymous and this person talks about arriving in san dimay having talks about arriving in san dimay having talks about arriving in san dimay having a wonderful lunch and you can imagine a wonderful lunch and you can imagine a wonderful lunch and you can imagine that the white colonial uh that the white colonial uh that the white colonial uh clothes and and enjoying themselves you clothes and and enjoying themselves you clothes and and enjoying themselves you know while they're being served tea and know while they're being served tea and know while they're being served tea and whatnot and then they this guy says who whatnot and then they this guy says who whatnot and then they this guy says who wrote this account that he gets a wrote this account that he gets a wrote this account that he gets a message that the slaves are in revolt up message that the slaves are in revolt up message that the slaves are in revolt up at the north where they have their at the north where they have their at the north where they have their plantation so they go rush up there and plantation so they go rush up there and plantation so they go rush up there and you get a firsthand account of what's you get a firsthand account of what's you get a firsthand account of what's going on in the inferno going on in the inferno going on in the inferno this is disasterville and the account this is disasterville and the account this is disasterville and the account picks up with all the locals while the

picks up with all the locals while the picks up with all the locals while the fires rage around them and the slaves fires rage around them and the slaves fires rage around them and the slaves are tearing stuff up and destroying are tearing stuff up and destroying are tearing stuff up and destroying things and hacking people to death they things and hacking people to death they things and hacking people to death they all join on on this family's plantation all join on on this family's plantation all join on on this family's plantation and he writes quote and he writes quote and he writes quote the frightened families among our the frightened families among our the frightened families among our neighbors met together at our plantation neighbors met together at our plantation neighbors met together at our plantation the men armed to face the storm the the men armed to face the storm the the men armed to face the storm the mother's wives sisters were lamenting mother's wives sisters were lamenting mother's wives sisters were lamenting and gathering in all haste a few and gathering in all haste a few and gathering in all haste a few precious effects precious effects precious effects desolation and fear were painted on all desolation and fear were painted on all desolation and fear were painted on all faces faces faces the sky seemed on fire the sky seemed on fire the sky seemed on fire guns could be heard from afar and the guns could be heard from afar and the guns could be heard from afar and the bells of the plantations were sounding bells of the plantations were sounding bells of the plantations were sounding the alarm the danger increased the the alarm the danger increased the the alarm the danger increased the flames at each moment were approaching flames at each moment were approaching flames at each moment were approaching and enclosing about us there was no time and enclosing about us there was no time and enclosing about us there was no time to lose we fled to lose we fled to lose we fled he continues and this is probably both he continues and this is probably both he continues and this is probably both reality reality reality and yet also a trope this is what this and yet also a trope this is what this and yet also a trope this is what this revolution's gonna have to live down in revolution's gonna have to live down in revolution's gonna have to live down in terms of atrocities terms of atrocities terms of atrocities um um um this supposed eyewitness this supposed eyewitness this supposed eyewitness but trying to whip up you know hatred but trying to whip up you know hatred but trying to whip up you know hatred and loathing back in places like france and loathing back in places like france and loathing back in places like france for the slave class here for the slave class here for the slave class here writes quote writes quote writes quote the victims who escaped at swords point the victims who escaped at swords point the victims who escaped at swords point came to swell the number of fugitives came to swell the number of fugitives came to swell the number of fugitives and recounted to us the horrors which and recounted to us the horrors which and recounted to us the horrors which they had witnessed they had seen they had witnessed they had seen they had witnessed they had seen unbelievable tortures to which they unbelievable tortures to which they unbelievable tortures to which they testified many women young beautiful and testified many women young beautiful and testified many women young beautiful and virtuous perished beneath the infamous virtuous perished beneath the infamous virtuous perished beneath the infamous caresses of the brigands among the caresses of the brigands among the caresses of the brigands among the cadavers of their fathers and husbands

cadavers of their fathers and husbands cadavers of their fathers and husbands bodies still palpitating were dragged bodies still palpitating were dragged bodies still palpitating were dragged through the roads with atrocious through the roads with atrocious through the roads with atrocious acclimations acclimations acclimations young children transfixed upon the point young children transfixed upon the point young children transfixed upon the point of bayonets were the bleeding flags of bayonets were the bleeding flags of bayonets were the bleeding flags which followed the troop of cannibals which followed the troop of cannibals which followed the troop of cannibals these pictures were not exaggerated and these pictures were not exaggerated and these pictures were not exaggerated and i more than once saw the sorrowful i more than once saw the sorrowful i more than once saw the sorrowful spectacle spectacle spectacle end quote end quote end quote these images are going to be picked up these images are going to be picked up these images are going to be picked up by the mass media of the time they are by the mass media of the time they are by the mass media of the time they are going to horrify uh the societies of going to horrify uh the societies of going to horrify uh the societies of north america south america europe i north america south america europe i north america south america europe i mean this is going to be mean this is going to be mean this is going to be such a scandal that some of the such a scandal that some of the such a scandal that some of the abolitionists are even going to look at abolitionists are even going to look at abolitionists are even going to look at this and say well you know maybe you this and say well you know maybe you this and say well you know maybe you deserve to be in chains then deserve to be in chains then deserve to be in chains then if you can't separate the guilty in the if you can't separate the guilty in the if you can't separate the guilty in the innocent innocent innocent it's gonna be held up as an example it's gonna be held up as an example it's gonna be held up as an example especially by the pro-slavery people of especially by the pro-slavery people of especially by the pro-slavery people of the savagery here look at these these the savagery here look at these these the savagery here look at these these are monsters that deserve slavery but are monsters that deserve slavery but are monsters that deserve slavery but it's never quite addressed it's never quite addressed it's never quite addressed that the very things or the functional that the very things or the functional that the very things or the functional equivalent of the very things that these equivalent of the very things that these equivalent of the very things that these slave slave slave rioters are doing in hot blood during an rioters are doing in hot blood during an rioters are doing in hot blood during an insurrection with all the pent-up insurrection with all the pent-up insurrection with all the pent-up revenge and everything else you know revenge and everything else you know revenge and everything else you know going on right a moment going on right a moment going on right a moment it's never quite pointed out that the it's never quite pointed out that the it's never quite pointed out that the functional equivalent of what they're functional equivalent of what they're functional equivalent of what they're doing here doing here doing here was done to them right before this was done to them right before this was done to them right before this revolution started revolution started revolution started i mean let's remember the list of things i mean let's remember the list of things i mean let's remember the list of things that the historian from trinidad that the historian from trinidad that the historian from trinidad clr james had said right being smeared clr james had said right being smeared clr james had said right being smeared with sugar and devoured by the ants with sugar and devoured by the ants with sugar and devoured by the ants being roasted on spits i mean there's a

being roasted on spits i mean there's a being roasted on spits i mean there's a couple of stories that make the rounds couple of stories that make the rounds couple of stories that make the rounds here here here one of a carpenter being one of a carpenter being one of a carpenter being sawed into with a saw sawed into with a saw sawed into with a saw another of some colonists being nailed another of some colonists being nailed another of some colonists being nailed or something to the door or of his barn or something to the door or of his barn or something to the door or of his barn and then having his limbs chopped off and then having his limbs chopped off and then having his limbs chopped off one by one with axes by the slave one by one with axes by the slave one by one with axes by the slave rioters rioters rioters well my goodness it was just back in well my goodness it was just back in well my goodness it was just back in february which is only months ago february which is only months ago february which is only months ago that the legally that the legally that the legally you know entrusted authority of these you know entrusted authority of these you know entrusted authority of these colonies colonies colonies sentenced sentenced sentenced vincent oj and another guy to be broken vincent oj and another guy to be broken vincent oj and another guy to be broken on the wheel legally in public i mean on the wheel legally in public i mean on the wheel legally in public i mean it's the functional equivalent it's the functional equivalent it's the functional equivalent but the sympathy comes when these sorts but the sympathy comes when these sorts but the sympathy comes when these sorts of things are happening to people who of things are happening to people who of things are happening to people who look like the people that are reading look like the people that are reading look like the people that are reading the mass media about it very quickly the colonists are pulling very quickly the colonists are pulling out uh cannon they are arming the out uh cannon they are arming the out uh cannon they are arming the citizens they are making rules that says citizens they are making rules that says citizens they are making rules that says every ship that is in the harbor has to every ship that is in the harbor has to every ship that is in the harbor has to stay there all the sailors have to take stay there all the sailors have to take stay there all the sailors have to take their arms and come on on land to defend their arms and come on on land to defend their arms and come on on land to defend the enclaves of white colonists and just the enclaves of white colonists and just the enclaves of white colonists and just in case save those ships in case we all in case save those ships in case we all in case save those ships in case we all need to evacuate need to evacuate need to evacuate the first-hand accounts talk about the the first-hand accounts talk about the the first-hand accounts talk about the entire area being cordoned off and entire area being cordoned off and entire area being cordoned off and anytime any black people fall into the anytime any black people fall into the anytime any black people fall into the hands of the white colonists during hands of the white colonists during hands of the white colonists during these early stages they are interrogated these early stages they are interrogated these early stages they are interrogated tortured sometimes a wheel is put up tortured sometimes a wheel is put up tortured sometimes a wheel is put up just for that purpose uh one of the just for that purpose uh one of the just for that purpose uh one of the people inside the white enclave says and people inside the white enclave says and people inside the white enclave says and then lined up against a wall and then lined up against a wall and then lined up against a wall and executed executed executed prisoners are not being taken very often

prisoners are not being taken very often prisoners are not being taken very often and the side that takes the most of all and the side that takes the most of all and the side that takes the most of all believe it or not are the slaves because believe it or not are the slaves because believe it or not are the slaves because they'll be talk about trading white they'll be talk about trading white they'll be talk about trading white prisoners for concessions prisoners for concessions prisoners for concessions the situation though quickly becomes the situation though quickly becomes the situation though quickly becomes uh nasty in the extreme uh nasty in the extreme uh nasty in the extreme the black slaves go from using farm the black slaves go from using farm the black slaves go from using farm implements and things like machetes to implements and things like machetes to implements and things like machetes to using the weapons that they capture and using the weapons that they capture and using the weapons that they capture and then over time becoming very good with then over time becoming very good with then over time becoming very good with them them them they go from fighting as a rabble to they go from fighting as a rabble to they go from fighting as a rabble to fighting as fighting as fighting as organized troops in a sort of a skirmish organized troops in a sort of a skirmish organized troops in a sort of a skirmish ambush kind of formation ambush kind of formation ambush kind of formation and and and the the the sorts of scenes you begin to see sorts of scenes you begin to see sorts of scenes you begin to see are are are well what you might expect well what you might expect well what you might expect in a violent race war laurent dubois avengers of the new world laurent dubois avengers of the new world quote some contemporary sources about quote some contemporary sources about quote some contemporary sources about you know what's going on he says that you know what's going on he says that you know what's going on he says that both sides were at a gory stalemate at a both sides were at a gory stalemate at a both sides were at a gory stalemate at a certain point now quoting sources from certain point now quoting sources from certain point now quoting sources from the the the scene quote scene quote scene quote the country is filled with dead bodies the country is filled with dead bodies the country is filled with dead bodies which lie unburied the negroes have left which lie unburied the negroes have left which lie unburied the negroes have left the whites with stakes driven through the whites with stakes driven through the whites with stakes driven through them into the ground and the white them into the ground and the white them into the ground and the white troops who now take no prisoners but troops who now take no prisoners but troops who now take no prisoners but kill everything black or yellow leave kill everything black or yellow leave kill everything black or yellow leave the negroes dead upon the field end the negroes dead upon the field end the negroes dead upon the field end quote dubois then quotes another quote dubois then quotes another quote dubois then quotes another contemporary source who says quote the contemporary source who says quote the contemporary source who says quote the heads of white prisoners placed on heads of white prisoners placed on heads of white prisoners placed on stakes surrounded the camps of the stakes surrounded the camps of the stakes surrounded the camps of the blacks and the corpses of black

blacks and the corpses of black blacks and the corpses of black prisoners were hung from the trees and prisoners were hung from the trees and prisoners were hung from the trees and bushes along the roads that led to the bushes along the roads that led to the bushes along the roads that led to the positions of the whites end quote this seems to me to be the very this seems to me to be the very definition definition definition and the epitome of a race war and the epitome of a race war and the epitome of a race war and a huge component of this is revenge and a huge component of this is revenge and a huge component of this is revenge revenge to a degree which i can't revenge to a degree which i can't revenge to a degree which i can't imagine imagine imagine and you see it and you see it and you see it when you know when you know when you know the the the haitian revolt or this slave insurgency haitian revolt or this slave insurgency haitian revolt or this slave insurgency is going to go through multiple is going to go through multiple is going to go through multiple different stages for the next 12 to 14 different stages for the next 12 to 14 different stages for the next 12 to 14 years years years this first initial stage is where this this first initial stage is where this this first initial stage is where this rage is just exhibited to a degree it rage is just exhibited to a degree it rage is just exhibited to a degree it never goes away but you can see the never goes away but you can see the never goes away but you can see the enjoyment of having the tables turned enjoyment of having the tables turned enjoyment of having the tables turned jeremy d popkin relates a famous account jeremy d popkin relates a famous account jeremy d popkin relates a famous account one of the most famous first-hand one of the most famous first-hand one of the most famous first-hand accounts of the early parts of the slave accounts of the early parts of the slave accounts of the early parts of the slave revolt by a frenchman name i think the revolt by a frenchman name i think the revolt by a frenchman name i think the last name is pronounced gross last name is pronounced gross last name is pronounced gross and he falls into the hands and he falls into the hands and he falls into the hands of i guess you could call him sort of a of i guess you could call him sort of a of i guess you could call him sort of a mid-level commander mid-level commander mid-level commander he's the boss of a group of slave he's the boss of a group of slave he's the boss of a group of slave insurgents and they throw a bunch of the insurgents and they throw a bunch of the insurgents and they throw a bunch of the colonists they capture including this colonists they capture including this colonists they capture including this fellow named gross into a dungeon fellow named gross into a dungeon fellow named gross into a dungeon and then they proceed to brutalize some and then they proceed to brutalize some and then they proceed to brutalize some of his compatriots and the way that they of his compatriots and the way that they of his compatriots and the way that they do it is reminiscent of the very things do it is reminiscent of the very things do it is reminiscent of the very things that were done to slaves so at one point that were done to slaves so at one point that were done to slaves so at one point gross is in this dungeon and he says gross is in this dungeon and he says gross is in this dungeon and he says they take a man out and they throw a they take a man out and they throw a they take a man out and they throw a carcass back in later

carcass back in later carcass back in later and ask if they recognize their friend and ask if they recognize their friend and ask if they recognize their friend and he'd been given hundreds of lashes and he'd been given hundreds of lashes and he'd been given hundreds of lashes with a whip and then with a whip and then with a whip and then he said gunpowder inserted into every he said gunpowder inserted into every he said gunpowder inserted into every orifice in his his body and then blown orifice in his his body and then blown orifice in his his body and then blown up which up which up which if you recall the historian from if you recall the historian from if you recall the historian from trinidad's account is an exact thing trinidad's account is an exact thing trinidad's account is an exact thing that was supposedly done to the slaves that was supposedly done to the slaves that was supposedly done to the slaves but there's a certain but there's a certain but there's a certain you know we would call it sadistic but you know we would call it sadistic but you know we would call it sadistic but when it's a payback thing i'm not sure when it's a payback thing i'm not sure when it's a payback thing i'm not sure the normal the normal the normal labels apply quite the same way and this labels apply quite the same way and this labels apply quite the same way and this mid-level slave's name slave commander's mid-level slave's name slave commander's mid-level slave's name slave commander's name is johnny that's the anglified name is johnny that's the anglified name is johnny that's the anglified version of the name and gross relates version of the name and gross relates version of the name and gross relates what happens and it sounds like what happens and it sounds like what happens and it sounds like something out of a 1950s pulp comic book something out of a 1950s pulp comic book something out of a 1950s pulp comic book you know where the white explorers are you know where the white explorers are you know where the white explorers are about to be thrown into some big black about to be thrown into some big black about to be thrown into some big black kettle to be eaten by the natives it's kettle to be eaten by the natives it's kettle to be eaten by the natives it's that kind of that kind of that kind of horrificness but this is real stuff so gross says they don't know what's so gross says they don't know what's going to happen to them until they see going to happen to them until they see going to happen to them until they see this johnny showing up with a hangman this johnny showing up with a hangman this johnny showing up with a hangman and a bodyguard he says of negros and a bodyguard he says of negros and a bodyguard he says of negros mulattos who conduct themselves into mulattos who conduct themselves into mulattos who conduct themselves into their presence their presence their presence and then and then and then as soon as he sees the hangman he knows as soon as he sees the hangman he knows as soon as he sees the hangman he knows that they're in trouble and he writes that they're in trouble and he writes that they're in trouble and he writes quote quote quote our fate then we thought no longer our fate then we thought no longer our fate then we thought no longer dubious as it was four of our miserable dubious as it was four of our miserable dubious as it was four of our miserable companions were unshackled and conducted companions were unshackled and conducted companions were unshackled and conducted to the bottom of the scaffold where he to the bottom of the scaffold where he to the bottom of the scaffold where he johnny had them tied like so many johnny had them tied like so many johnny had them tied like so many victims to exercise his vengeance with

victims to exercise his vengeance with victims to exercise his vengeance with the greater relish this inhuman monster the greater relish this inhuman monster the greater relish this inhuman monster measured out the ground and the hangman measured out the ground and the hangman measured out the ground and the hangman dared not lift the destructive weapon dared not lift the destructive weapon dared not lift the destructive weapon without his order which by a watch in without his order which by a watch in without his order which by a watch in his hand was given every quarter of an his hand was given every quarter of an his hand was given every quarter of an hour when these poor afflicted wretches hour when these poor afflicted wretches hour when these poor afflicted wretches were at gasp of death were at gasp of death were at gasp of death we beheld johnny the mulatto deleli and we beheld johnny the mulatto deleli and we beheld johnny the mulatto deleli and the negro goddard amidst these horrid the negro goddard amidst these horrid the negro goddard amidst these horrid torments torments torments cutting piecemeal two of those whom they cutting piecemeal two of those whom they cutting piecemeal two of those whom they had thus butchered trusting the other had thus butchered trusting the other had thus butchered trusting the other two like a foul ready prepared for the two like a foul ready prepared for the two like a foul ready prepared for the spit toad fashion and drinking their spit toad fashion and drinking their spit toad fashion and drinking their blood blood blood end quote end quote end quote the author gross says that he and his the author gross says that he and his the author gross says that he and his compatriots were forced to help do all compatriots were forced to help do all compatriots were forced to help do all this right there's some psychological this right there's some psychological this right there's some psychological twistedness there twistedness there twistedness there the idea of making everybody wait the idea of making everybody wait the idea of making everybody wait exactly 15 minutes for the next exactly 15 minutes for the next exactly 15 minutes for the next act to happen can you imagine act to happen can you imagine act to happen can you imagine sitting there waiting for it to happen sitting there waiting for it to happen sitting there waiting for it to happen and looking at each other and in your and looking at each other and in your and looking at each other and in your head trying to figure i mean head trying to figure i mean head trying to figure i mean it's it's it's diabolical so the next day they take out more of so the next day they take out more of the prisoners and they have to do all the prisoners and they have to do all the prisoners and they have to do all this again and gross rights quote this again and gross rights quote this again and gross rights quote a repetition of the same tragic a repetition of the same tragic a repetition of the same tragic barbarity succeeded the next day and so barbarity succeeded the next day and so barbarity succeeded the next day and so on bear shea our commander was doomed to on bear shea our commander was doomed to on bear shea our commander was doomed to another torture johnny immediately another torture johnny immediately another torture johnny immediately caused one of his hands to be severed caused one of his hands to be severed caused one of his hands to be severed and then extended him upon a ladder and then extended him upon a ladder and then extended him upon a ladder where he received 200 lashes they

where he received 200 lashes they where he received 200 lashes they afterwards conveyed him in a cart to the afterwards conveyed him in a cart to the afterwards conveyed him in a cart to the town of grand riviere where he was town of grand riviere where he was town of grand riviere where he was suspended from a stake fixed in the suspended from a stake fixed in the suspended from a stake fixed in the ground by a hook that pierced him under ground by a hook that pierced him under ground by a hook that pierced him under the chin the chin the chin this unfortunate man living in this this unfortunate man living in this this unfortunate man living in this condition six and thirty hours and at condition six and thirty hours and at condition six and thirty hours and at the time johnny had him taken down he the time johnny had him taken down he the time johnny had him taken down he still palpitated this monster whose still palpitated this monster whose still palpitated this monster whose thirst for human blood could not be laid thirst for human blood could not be laid thirst for human blood could not be laid invented a fresh torture which was that invented a fresh torture which was that invented a fresh torture which was that of roasting the remainder of the of roasting the remainder of the of roasting the remainder of the prisoners alive on a spit end quote prisoners alive on a spit end quote prisoners alive on a spit end quote but this is the part of but this is the part of but this is the part of the piece that then is also interesting the piece that then is also interesting the piece that then is also interesting before he can kill all these people before he can kill all these people before he can kill all these people a group of slaves and a commander shows a group of slaves and a commander shows a group of slaves and a commander shows up up up assesses the situation talks to the assesses the situation talks to the assesses the situation talks to the people involved ties johnny up to a tree people involved ties johnny up to a tree people involved ties johnny up to a tree and has him shot and has him shot and has him shot and then apologizes and then apologizes and then apologizes and asked if they needed anything that and asked if they needed anything that and asked if they needed anything that he could get them he could get them he could get them right the the mind reels but what you're right the the mind reels but what you're right the the mind reels but what you're seeing here seeing here seeing here is the is the is the transition from the moment of sheer transition from the moment of sheer transition from the moment of sheer hot-blooded revenge and cruelty and all hot-blooded revenge and cruelty and all hot-blooded revenge and cruelty and all that is payback to something more stable that is payback to something more stable that is payback to something more stable where you begin to see where you begin to see where you begin to see um an attempt to control all this so um an attempt to control all this so um an attempt to control all this so that's why a lot of historians will that's why a lot of historians will that's why a lot of historians will divide what's called the haitian divide what's called the haitian divide what's called the haitian revolution into multiple chunks because revolution into multiple chunks because revolution into multiple chunks because each chunk represents a changing in the each chunk represents a changing in the each chunk represents a changing in the way things are in the global situation way things are in the global situation way things are in the global situation and remember this is tied to the hip to and remember this is tied to the hip to and remember this is tied to the hip to the french revolution so very soon the the french revolution so very soon the the french revolution so very soon the french revolution is going to veer off

french revolution is going to veer off french revolution is going to veer off in other directions and san diming's in other directions and san diming's in other directions and san diming's going to go with it going to go with it going to go with it i mean the next phase in all this is i mean the next phase in all this is i mean the next phase in all this is going to be going to be going to be when france goes to war with most of when france goes to war with most of when france goes to war with most of europe europe europe it's famous for you know the it's famous for you know the it's famous for you know the revolutionary period but one of their revolutionary period but one of their revolutionary period but one of their enemies is going to be britain enemies is going to be britain enemies is going to be britain and one of the battlefields is going to and one of the battlefields is going to and one of the battlefields is going to be this whole caribbean area and san be this whole caribbean area and san be this whole caribbean area and san domingo gets swept up in this domingo gets swept up in this domingo gets swept up in this but what that means is but what that means is but what that means is that the french government this that the french government this that the french government this revolutionary government that is going revolutionary government that is going revolutionary government that is going to go from uh relatively liberal and to go from uh relatively liberal and to go from uh relatively liberal and enlightenment-like right with jefferson enlightenment-like right with jefferson enlightenment-like right with jefferson and lafayette and those people to and lafayette and those people to and lafayette and those people to increasingly radical and then it'll go increasingly radical and then it'll go increasingly radical and then it'll go conservative after that period and then conservative after that period and then conservative after that period and then napoleon will get in charge so there's napoleon will get in charge so there's napoleon will get in charge so there's lots of stages of the french revolution lots of stages of the french revolution lots of stages of the french revolution too and sand doming isn't just the race too and sand doming isn't just the race too and sand doming isn't just the race war war war issue going on there they're part of the issue going on there they're part of the issue going on there they're part of the french revolution too you've got rich french revolution too you've got rich french revolution too you've got rich white planters who are with the royalist white planters who are with the royalist white planters who are with the royalist side and poor white artisans who have uh side and poor white artisans who have uh side and poor white artisans who have uh sympathy for the ideas of the revolution sympathy for the ideas of the revolution sympathy for the ideas of the revolution so it's going to get very complicated so it's going to get very complicated so it's going to get very complicated but san doming is a target and it's a but san doming is a target and it's a but san doming is a target and it's a target because of its wealth target because of its wealth target because of its wealth it's also a target because this um slave it's also a target because this um slave it's also a target because this um slave revolt here that's going on month after revolt here that's going on month after revolt here that's going on month after month after month now month after month now month after month now is a bad influence on all the other is a bad influence on all the other is a bad influence on all the other slave societies nearby right so the slave societies nearby right so the slave societies nearby right so the british would like to get that taken british would like to get that taken british would like to get that taken care of so that their slave societies in care of so that their slave societies in care of so that their slave societies in places like jamaica that's very close places like jamaica that's very close places like jamaica that's very close don't start getting don't start getting don't start getting you know as upset as the french colonies you know as upset as the french colonies you know as upset as the french colonies are and and after a certain number of are and and after a certain number of are and and after a certain number of months months months in san doming it does spread to other in san doming it does spread to other in san doming it does spread to other french colonies french colonies french colonies the reason all this matters though is

the reason all this matters though is the reason all this matters though is because the french government is going because the french government is going because the french government is going to be forced to make concessions during to be forced to make concessions during to be forced to make concessions during this whole affair that they probably this whole affair that they probably this whole affair that they probably wouldn't have made otherwise because wouldn't have made otherwise because wouldn't have made otherwise because they're going to be faced with choices they're going to be faced with choices they're going to be faced with choices like make this concession or lose the like make this concession or lose the like make this concession or lose the entire island entire island entire island and all of a sudden the kind of things and all of a sudden the kind of things and all of a sudden the kind of things that vincent oger that vincent oger that vincent oger died trying to achieve and couldn't died trying to achieve and couldn't died trying to achieve and couldn't manage to manage to manage to become very negotiable once the question become very negotiable once the question become very negotiable once the question is well what if what if you're going to is well what if what if you're going to is well what if what if you're going to lose everything how about you uh how lose everything how about you uh how lose everything how about you uh how about you make peace with those about you make peace with those about you make peace with those mixed race individuals this is one of mixed race individuals this is one of mixed race individuals this is one of the things that for example happens make the things that for example happens make the things that for example happens make peace with the mixed race people get peace with the mixed race people get peace with the mixed race people get them on your side so that the white them on your side so that the white them on your side so that the white colonists and the mixed race colonists and the mixed race colonists and the mixed race folk can together folk can together folk can together you know stop this slave revolt and all you know stop this slave revolt and all you know stop this slave revolt and all of a sudden because of the threat to the of a sudden because of the threat to the of a sudden because of the threat to the island and everything else um the french island and everything else um the french island and everything else um the french government in paris will grant and government in paris will grant and government in paris will grant and really enforce the equal rights that really enforce the equal rights that really enforce the equal rights that vincent o'jay had died trying to achieve vincent o'jay had died trying to achieve vincent o'jay had died trying to achieve the french will send a 28 year old see the french will send a 28 year old see the french will send a 28 year old see to me i look at it now i go 28 year old to me i look at it now i go 28 year old to me i look at it now i go 28 year old this is a kid a 28 year old commander this is a kid a 28 year old commander this is a kid a 28 year old commander and 6 000 troops and then 6 000 more and 6 000 troops and then 6 000 more and 6 000 troops and then 6 000 more troops to sort of enforce all this sort troops to sort of enforce all this sort troops to sort of enforce all this sort of stuff of stuff of stuff and this guy and this guy and this guy and i can i can hardly believe this but and i can i can hardly believe this but and i can i can hardly believe this but remember there's there's a long distance remember there's there's a long distance remember there's there's a long distance and there's no telegraph or anything and there's no telegraph or anything and there's no telegraph or anything like that for instant communication like that for instant communication like that for instant communication between san doming and paris so this 28 between san doming and paris so this 28 between san doming and paris so this 28 year old sometimes has to make command year old sometimes has to make command year old sometimes has to make command decisions on the ground and he's going decisions on the ground and he's going decisions on the ground and he's going to be confronted with these kinds of to be confronted with these kinds of to be confronted with these kinds of choices choices choices and at a certain point

and at a certain point and at a certain point he's going to decide first at one part he's going to decide first at one part he's going to decide first at one part of the island and then in the island in of the island and then in the island in of the island and then in the island in its entirety to free the slaves its entirety to free the slaves its entirety to free the slaves because if he doesn't they're going to because if he doesn't they're going to because if he doesn't they're going to lose the island to either the british or lose the island to either the british or lose the island to either the british or the spanish next door the spanish next door the spanish next door and when this 28 year old does this and when this 28 year old does this and when this 28 year old does this and then representatives from san and then representatives from san and then representatives from san domingo and talk to the increasingly domingo and talk to the increasingly domingo and talk to the increasingly radical uh revolutionary french radical uh revolutionary french radical uh revolutionary french government the increasingly radical government the increasingly radical government the increasingly radical revolutionary french government decides revolutionary french government decides revolutionary french government decides to back up this 28 year old and sort of to back up this 28 year old and sort of to back up this 28 year old and sort of own it like they meant to do it all the own it like they meant to do it all the own it like they meant to do it all the time time time and if you want to get one of the best and if you want to get one of the best and if you want to get one of the best examples of the duality of this right examples of the duality of this right examples of the duality of this right it's both living up to our marketing it's both living up to our marketing it's both living up to our marketing messages and oh it's a brilliant messages and oh it's a brilliant messages and oh it's a brilliant geopolitical ideological coup geopolitical ideological coup geopolitical ideological coup listen to the remarks listen to the remarks listen to the remarks that george denton of the revolution that george denton of the revolution that george denton of the revolution right one of these french right one of these french right one of these french revolutionaries who would like so many revolutionaries who would like so many revolutionaries who would like so many of them will end up a victim of the of them will end up a victim of the of them will end up a victim of the french revolution and get his head cut french revolution and get his head cut french revolution and get his head cut off he will stand up in front of the off he will stand up in front of the off he will stand up in front of the national convention national convention national convention and basically say and basically say and basically say you know this is something we should you know this is something we should you know this is something we should have done a long time ago and it's going have done a long time ago and it's going have done a long time ago and it's going to screw the english he said quote to screw the english he said quote to screw the english he said quote representatives of the french people representatives of the french people representatives of the french people until now our decrees of liberty have until now our decrees of liberty have until now our decrees of liberty have been selfish and only for ourselves but been selfish and only for ourselves but been selfish and only for ourselves but today today today we proclaim it to the universe we proclaim it to the universe we proclaim it to the universe and generations to come will glory in and generations to come will glory in and generations to come will glory in this decree this decree this decree we are proclaiming universal liberty we are proclaiming universal liberty we are proclaiming universal liberty we are working for future generations we are working for future generations we are working for future generations let us launch liberty into the colonies

let us launch liberty into the colonies let us launch liberty into the colonies the english are dead today the english are dead today the english are dead today end quote end quote end quote and that's not just hyperbole because and that's not just hyperbole because and that's not just hyperbole because there will come a point in this whole there will come a point in this whole there will come a point in this whole haitian revolution thing haitian revolution thing haitian revolution thing where the british will come and try to where the british will come and try to where the british will come and try to sort of conquer sandoming sort of conquer sandoming sort of conquer sandoming that's what prompts moves like this and that's what prompts moves like this and that's what prompts moves like this and what the french government is what the french government is what the french government is essentially saying to the slaves of essentially saying to the slaves of essentially saying to the slaves of saint domingue hey saint domingue hey saint domingue hey uh you're free now by this government's uh you're free now by this government's uh you're free now by this government's decree decree decree if the british win and take over the if the british win and take over the if the british win and take over the island they're going to re-enslave you island they're going to re-enslave you island they're going to re-enslave you and put your masters back in charge of and put your masters back in charge of and put your masters back in charge of things because that's what they're doing things because that's what they're doing things because that's what they're doing in their islands um so you better fight in their islands um so you better fight in their islands um so you better fight for our collective freedom right so you for our collective freedom right so you for our collective freedom right so you were gonna lose the island entirely well were gonna lose the island entirely well were gonna lose the island entirely well sure we'll grant sure we'll grant sure we'll grant you know freedom to the slaves right you know freedom to the slaves right you know freedom to the slaves right what's more what the french have done what's more what the french have done what's more what the french have done here is is declare themselves in here is is declare themselves in here is is declare themselves in solidarity with every slave society solidarity with every slave society solidarity with every slave society around the world around the world around the world right and portray their enemies like the right and portray their enemies like the right and portray their enemies like the british and the spaniards as the as the british and the spaniards as the as the british and the spaniards as the as the protectors of the slave system it's protectors of the slave system it's protectors of the slave system it's brilliant while all this is going on and you know while all this is going on and you know we're not getting into real detail about we're not getting into real detail about we're not getting into real detail about the intricacies of the of the haitian the intricacies of the of the haitian the intricacies of the of the haitian revolution but but some of the leaders revolution but but some of the leaders revolution but but some of the leaders that are going to be produced by this that are going to be produced by this that are going to be produced by this thing are going to be some of the more thing are going to be some of the more thing are going to be some of the more interesting uh people in the history the interesting uh people in the history the interesting uh people in the history the region i mean there's going to be a guy region i mean there's going to be a guy region i mean there's going to be a guy who's like the george washington of who's like the george washington of who's like the george washington of haiti uh toussaint louverture who's haiti uh toussaint louverture who's haiti uh toussaint louverture who's going to come to the fore during this going to come to the fore during this going to come to the fore during this period he's going to be a fantastic period he's going to be a fantastic period he's going to be a fantastic leader of soldiers and he's going to be leader of soldiers and he's going to be leader of soldiers and he's going to be the one who actually outmaneuvers the one who actually outmaneuvers the one who actually outmaneuvers multiple different empires right the multiple different empires right the multiple different empires right the british the spanish and even the french british the spanish and even the french british the spanish and even the french to win the freedom of this island

to win the freedom of this island to win the freedom of this island eventually he's going to have to work eventually he's going to have to work eventually he's going to have to work all kinds of angles and isolate people i all kinds of angles and isolate people i all kinds of angles and isolate people i mean it's brilliant chess playing mean it's brilliant chess playing mean it's brilliant chess playing and it's going to take and it's going to take and it's going to take one of the greatest one of the greatest one of the greatest geopolitical figures in all human geopolitical figures in all human geopolitical figures in all human history history history to put an end to his maneuvers to create to put an end to his maneuvers to create to put an end to his maneuvers to create a free society and an equal society in a free society and an equal society in a free society and an equal society in san doming san doming san doming napoleon bonaparte what happens that involves bonaparte what happens that involves napoleon is eventually of course napoleon is eventually of course napoleon is eventually of course napoleon in 1799 1800 gets control of napoleon in 1799 1800 gets control of napoleon in 1799 1800 gets control of france france france he's this most interesting of characters he's this most interesting of characters he's this most interesting of characters he's an emperor who will be an autocrat he's an emperor who will be an autocrat he's an emperor who will be an autocrat and who personally will demand you know and who personally will demand you know and who personally will demand you know the kind of obedience autocrats do but the kind of obedience autocrats do but the kind of obedience autocrats do but he's able because of the way he rose to he's able because of the way he rose to he's able because of the way he rose to power to sort of wrap himself in the power to sort of wrap himself in the power to sort of wrap himself in the clothing of the revolution clothing of the revolution clothing of the revolution and somehow portray himself when he and somehow portray himself when he and somehow portray himself when he wants to as the defender of the rights wants to as the defender of the rights wants to as the defender of the rights of man and all those kinds of things of man and all those kinds of things of man and all those kinds of things but that also hamstrings him he can't but that also hamstrings him he can't but that also hamstrings him he can't just go crush you know liberty movements just go crush you know liberty movements just go crush you know liberty movements he's got to be a little bit more careful he's got to be a little bit more careful he's got to be a little bit more careful than that but when he looks at the than that but when he looks at the than that but when he looks at the situation in san diming he wants his situation in san diming he wants his situation in san diming he wants his gold mine oil well back he wants the gold mine oil well back he wants the gold mine oil well back he wants the yellow bananas to produce again and the yellow bananas to produce again and the yellow bananas to produce again and the wealth of that island has been destroyed wealth of that island has been destroyed wealth of that island has been destroyed by the uprising so napoleon's going to by the uprising so napoleon's going to by the uprising so napoleon's going to send one of his generals happens to be send one of his generals happens to be send one of his generals happens to be his brother-in-law a guy named leclerc his brother-in-law a guy named leclerc his brother-in-law a guy named leclerc back to the island this is sort of the back to the island this is sort of the back to the island this is sort of the last phase last phase last phase um um um of the fight for saint domingue he's of the fight for saint domingue he's of the fight for saint domingue he's going to send leclerc as the guy's name going to send leclerc as the guy's name going to send leclerc as the guy's name back to the island with troops and their

back to the island with troops and their back to the island with troops and their job's going to be to you know job's going to be to you know job's going to be to you know outmaneuver all the various leaders the outmaneuver all the various leaders the outmaneuver all the various leaders the mixed race leaders uh toussaint mixed race leaders uh toussaint mixed race leaders uh toussaint louvature all those kind of people louvature all those kind of people louvature all those kind of people isolate them promise them things like isolate them promise them things like isolate them promise them things like hey you can have your freedom and you hey you can have your freedom and you hey you can have your freedom and you can have money you can have all this can have money you can have all this can have money you can have all this just let's abandon this whole thing and just let's abandon this whole thing and just let's abandon this whole thing and crush the people they can't the clerk's crush the people they can't the clerk's crush the people they can't the clerk's gonna have like 26 000 french soldiers gonna have like 26 000 french soldiers gonna have like 26 000 french soldiers and they're going to get their rear ends and they're going to get their rear ends and they're going to get their rear ends handed to them first of all you have to understand it first of all you have to understand it if if the russians can have things like if if the russians can have things like if if the russians can have things like general winter which is one of their the general winter which is one of their the general winter which is one of their the sayings right when the winter comes it's sayings right when the winter comes it's sayings right when the winter comes it's practically a general for them or practically a general for them or practically a general for them or general mud when the when the thaws general mud when the when the thaws general mud when the when the thaws happen and the whole place is immovable happen and the whole place is immovable happen and the whole place is immovable quicksand well then the haitians and the quicksand well then the haitians and the quicksand well then the haitians and the people of sandoming can have field people of sandoming can have field people of sandoming can have field marshall fever can't they marshall fever can't they marshall fever can't they sounds like something out of wkrp in sounds like something out of wkrp in sounds like something out of wkrp in cincinnati but i'm thinking more cincinnati but i'm thinking more cincinnati but i'm thinking more about samson and the bible and how about samson and the bible and how about samson and the bible and how samson had you know the strength with samson had you know the strength with samson had you know the strength with his hair and then his enemies got a hold his hair and then his enemies got a hold his hair and then his enemies got a hold of him and cut the hair off and he was of him and cut the hair off and he was of him and cut the hair off and he was abused by them for a while but then the abused by them for a while but then the abused by them for a while but then the hair grew back and with it came you know hair grew back and with it came you know hair grew back and with it came you know his powers his powers his powers well if central and southern africa had well if central and southern africa had well if central and southern africa had had that pathogenic had that pathogenic had that pathogenic defense shield that had kept out all the defense shield that had kept out all the defense shield that had kept out all the non-central and southern african ravel non-central and southern african ravel non-central and southern african ravel for for so long but it turned against for for so long but it turned against for for so long but it turned against you know african interests because it you know african interests because it you know african interests because it made them the better choice for slaves made them the better choice for slaves made them the better choice for slaves in the new world right because they they in the new world right because they they in the new world right because they they had some resistance to these things that had some resistance to these things that had some resistance to these things that killed the indigenous people the killed the indigenous people the killed the indigenous people the europeans you know sort of worked europeans you know sort of worked europeans you know sort of worked against them in an ironic sort of sense against them in an ironic sort of sense against them in an ironic sort of sense for so long but here in sandoming

for so long but here in sandoming for so long but here in sandoming the pathogenic defense shield defends the pathogenic defense shield defends the pathogenic defense shield defends the revolution the revolution the revolution and the deaths and the deaths and the deaths from the diseases of the european from the diseases of the european from the diseases of the european military forces military forces military forces is as bad as any i've ever seen at any is as bad as any i've ever seen at any is as bad as any i've ever seen at any time time time it's it's absolutely astounding first of it's it's absolutely astounding first of it's it's absolutely astounding first of all the british in 1796 1797 1798 are all the british in 1796 1797 1798 are all the british in 1796 1797 1798 are trying to reconquer uh the the areas in trying to reconquer uh the the areas in trying to reconquer uh the the areas in the caribbean that have had revolts and the caribbean that have had revolts and the caribbean that have had revolts and everything they will send out the everything they will send out the everything they will send out the largest expedition largest expedition largest expedition uh i think during this time period from uh i think during this time period from uh i think during this time period from a naval sense because the british don't a naval sense because the british don't a naval sense because the british don't tend to put very very large armies into tend to put very very large armies into tend to put very very large armies into the field but they'll send like 200 the field but they'll send like 200 the field but they'll send like 200 ships 30 000 40 000 guys to these ships 30 000 40 000 guys to these ships 30 000 40 000 guys to these islands islands islands and the disease will crush them they will start calling the west indies they will start calling the west indies a cemetery they will have revolts by a cemetery they will have revolts by a cemetery they will have revolts by troops in ireland who are at the port troops in ireland who are at the port troops in ireland who are at the port who don't want to go it's a death who don't want to go it's a death who don't want to go it's a death sentence sentence sentence and if you're not dying from the disease and if you're not dying from the disease and if you're not dying from the disease you have to deal with the rebels and the you have to deal with the rebels and the you have to deal with the rebels and the slaves and these people who are now slaves and these people who are now slaves and these people who are now getting very organized and fighting very getting very organized and fighting very getting very organized and fighting very well and i mean louvature and friends well and i mean louvature and friends well and i mean louvature and friends has created an army has created an army has created an army that will drag you out into the that will drag you out into the that will drag you out into the hinterlands and kill you like a north hinterlands and kill you like a north hinterlands and kill you like a north vietnamese regiment vietnamese regiment vietnamese regiment right right right some of my favorite stories though some of my favorite stories though some of my favorite stories though because they are because they are because they are absolutely horror show moments come from absolutely horror show moments come from absolutely horror show moments come from this time period because uh napoleon's this time period because uh napoleon's this time period because uh napoleon's general leclerc who by the way will general leclerc who by the way will general leclerc who by the way will himself die of yellow fever which is one himself die of yellow fever which is one himself die of yellow fever which is one of the prime killers yellow fever is

of the prime killers yellow fever is of the prime killers yellow fever is absolutely horrific and it it'll absolutely horrific and it it'll absolutely horrific and it it'll probably kill the majority but you have probably kill the majority but you have probably kill the majority but you have malaria you have a ton of right the malaria you have a ton of right the malaria you have a ton of right the pathogenic defense force field is uh pathogenic defense force field is uh pathogenic defense force field is uh devastating the clerk will die from it devastating the clerk will die from it devastating the clerk will die from it too as i said but not before he's able too as i said but not before he's able too as i said but not before he's able to write accounts and some of these to write accounts and some of these to write accounts and some of these accounts are crazy so for example the accounts are crazy so for example the accounts are crazy so for example the clerk actually owns a plantation in clerk actually owns a plantation in clerk actually owns a plantation in san sandoming one of the ones in the san sandoming one of the ones in the san sandoming one of the ones in the area that's been scoured by insurgents area that's been scoured by insurgents area that's been scoured by insurgents and he writes an account of going back and he writes an account of going back and he writes an account of going back there there there and it is and it is and it is i don't know what the adjective is so i don't know what the adjective is so i don't know what the adjective is so let me read you the account let me read you the account let me read you the account and and again with all these accounts is and and again with all these accounts is and and again with all these accounts is it true is it not true i don't know but it true is it not true i don't know but it true is it not true i don't know but i've heard things in history that sound i've heard things in history that sound i've heard things in history that sound similar i mean one is reminded of when similar i mean one is reminded of when similar i mean one is reminded of when the romans were able to get back to the the romans were able to get back to the the romans were able to get back to the battlefield at the tutor burger vault battlefield at the tutor burger vault battlefield at the tutor burger vault right the tuderberg forest after the right the tuderberg forest after the right the tuderberg forest after the german tribe has been destroyed them german tribe has been destroyed them german tribe has been destroyed them there and saw what the german tribesmen there and saw what the german tribesmen there and saw what the german tribesmen had left for them to find well there's had left for them to find well there's had left for them to find well there's echoes of that in the clerk's writing so echoes of that in the clerk's writing so echoes of that in the clerk's writing so the clerk takes you with him the clerk takes you with him the clerk takes you with him with his soldiers and a bunch of these with his soldiers and a bunch of these with his soldiers and a bunch of these people who owned land up in this people who owned land up in this people who owned land up in this territory as they march back in force to territory as they march back in force to territory as they march back in force to the burned out the burned out the burned out area and the clerk says quote area and the clerk says quote area and the clerk says quote from a distance it looked like universal from a distance it looked like universal from a distance it looked like universal desolation our ruin was complete desolation our ruin was complete desolation our ruin was complete one person hardly recognized the site of one person hardly recognized the site of one person hardly recognized the site of his own plantation the other plantation his own plantation the other plantation his own plantation the other plantation of a friend he sought in vain of a friend he sought in vain of a friend he sought in vain what the fire had spared hands even more what the fire had spared hands even more what the fire had spared hands even more destructive than the flames had reduced

destructive than the flames had reduced destructive than the flames had reduced to dust we felt as though we were to dust we felt as though we were to dust we felt as though we were marching on the ruins of the world marching on the ruins of the world marching on the ruins of the world sad playthings of fate the plantation sad playthings of fate the plantation sad playthings of fate the plantation owners mixed in with the main body of owners mixed in with the main body of owners mixed in with the main body of the army dragged themselves along lost the army dragged themselves along lost the army dragged themselves along lost in contemplation of their misery in contemplation of their misery in contemplation of their misery soldiers and civilians all shared our soldiers and civilians all shared our soldiers and civilians all shared our sufferings no black no animal no living sufferings no black no animal no living sufferings no black no animal no living creature interrupted the silence of creature interrupted the silence of creature interrupted the silence of these deserts broken only by the these deserts broken only by the these deserts broken only by the rumbling of the cannon and the slow rumbling of the cannon and the slow rumbling of the cannon and the slow measured pace of the troops measured pace of the troops measured pace of the troops end quote the clerk says the clerk says that they see that they see that they see scaffolds stained with blood ruins ashes scaffolds stained with blood ruins ashes scaffolds stained with blood ruins ashes trees hung with the heads trees hung with the heads trees hung with the heads of of of colonists already putrefying colonists already putrefying colonists already putrefying and then says and then says and then says they saw something even worse quote they saw something even worse quote they saw something even worse quote as they advanced they came across a as they advanced they came across a as they advanced they came across a horrible sight horrible sight horrible sight oh what an abomination oh inventive oh what an abomination oh inventive oh what an abomination oh inventive genius of cannibals what did we see genius of cannibals what did we see genius of cannibals what did we see white hands from the wrist up coming out white hands from the wrist up coming out white hands from the wrist up coming out of the ground with the fingers pointing of the ground with the fingers pointing of the ground with the fingers pointing upward we stood petrified upward we stood petrified upward we stood petrified did they belong to bodies buried here did they belong to bodies buried here did they belong to bodies buried here had parasital hands torn them from had parasital hands torn them from had parasital hands torn them from living victims living victims living victims these hands that i must have held in my these hands that i must have held in my these hands that i must have held in my own own own ah they no doubt belong to a father a ah they no doubt belong to a father a ah they no doubt belong to a father a friend a mother they might have just friend a mother they might have just friend a mother they might have just signed the manumissions of some of these

signed the manumissions of some of these signed the manumissions of some of these monsters who had insulted them in their monsters who had insulted them in their monsters who had insulted them in their agony who had made killing a game agony who had made killing a game agony who had made killing a game these whites had been torn apart their these whites had been torn apart their these whites had been torn apart their sufferings were over what a terrifying sufferings were over what a terrifying sufferings were over what a terrifying rest their shades hovered over our heads rest their shades hovered over our heads rest their shades hovered over our heads end quote end quote end quote and he means they're ghosts at one point and this story is again one at one point and this story is again one of those where you think okay is this of those where you think okay is this of those where you think okay is this believable or is this hyperbole i don't believable or is this hyperbole i don't believable or is this hyperbole i don't know but it's wonderful le clerc says he know but it's wonderful le clerc says he know but it's wonderful le clerc says he gets to his own plantation but his house gets to his own plantation but his house gets to his own plantation but his house is gone the place is level but there's is gone the place is level but there's is gone the place is level but there's two buildings standing because slaves two buildings standing because slaves two buildings standing because slaves were living there or something and he were living there or something and he were living there or something and he says he went into one of them that says he went into one of them that says he went into one of them that contained his library and it's untouched contained his library and it's untouched contained his library and it's untouched and pristine and he walks up to his copy and pristine and he walks up to his copy and pristine and he walks up to his copy of reynolds book which he owns which is of reynolds book which he owns which is of reynolds book which he owns which is the book we quoted from that had said the book we quoted from that had said the book we quoted from that had said you know if only the you know if only the you know if only the uh um uh um uh um blacks can overthrow the the whites and blacks can overthrow the the whites and blacks can overthrow the the whites and it's coming and the great leader is it's coming and the great leader is it's coming and the great leader is going to be you know uh raising the going to be you know uh raising the going to be you know uh raising the standard of liberty and and then standard of liberty and and then standard of liberty and and then eventually you know what are now the eventually you know what are now the eventually you know what are now the black codes will be turned around and black codes will be turned around and black codes will be turned around and become the white codes and the clerks as become the white codes and the clerks as become the white codes and the clerks as he comes into his study and that book is he comes into his study and that book is he comes into his study and that book is open to that page open to that page open to that page in other words he's suggesting that the in other words he's suggesting that the in other words he's suggesting that the people who burned down his plantation people who burned down his plantation people who burned down his plantation were very aware of reynolds writing saw were very aware of reynolds writing saw were very aware of reynolds writing saw the book spared the room opened it up to the book spared the room opened it up to the book spared the room opened it up to the page so that when the people came the page so that when the people came the page so that when the people came and found what they had done and found what they had done and found what they had done they would see the reason

they would see the reason they would see the reason in print in print in print written by a frenchman he thinks that sounds just a little too he thinks that sounds just a little too nicely wrapped up in a bow story wise to nicely wrapped up in a bow story wise to nicely wrapped up in a bow story wise to be believed but it's the way le clerc be believed but it's the way le clerc be believed but it's the way le clerc wanted to frame it wanted to frame it wanted to frame it that's interesting isn't it and the fact that's interesting isn't it and the fact that's interesting isn't it and the fact that the very next lines are about how that the very next lines are about how that the very next lines are about how he absolves reynolds sort of of any he absolves reynolds sort of of any he absolves reynolds sort of of any guilt in this saying that you know evil guilt in this saying that you know evil guilt in this saying that you know evil beings can twist any ideas into beings can twist any ideas into beings can twist any ideas into evil ones but evil ones but evil ones but what's so interesting and hypocritical what's so interesting and hypocritical what's so interesting and hypocritical about all this about all this about all this is leclerc is himself twisting reynolds is leclerc is himself twisting reynolds is leclerc is himself twisting reynolds enlightenment ideas enlightenment ideas enlightenment ideas in a way to do something that has to be in a way to do something that has to be in a way to do something that has to be on the on the on the on the short list of the of the worst on the short list of the of the worst on the short list of the of the worst things you can do to anyone his job things you can do to anyone his job things you can do to anyone his job there and it's a secret mission there and it's a secret mission there and it's a secret mission essentially essentially essentially is to re is to re is to re institute slavery in a place where it's institute slavery in a place where it's institute slavery in a place where it's been done away with been done away with been done away with imagine being a slave getting your imagine being a slave getting your imagine being a slave getting your freedom and then having somebody come in freedom and then having somebody come in freedom and then having somebody come in from the outside and changing their mind from the outside and changing their mind from the outside and changing their mind the clerk understands and so does the clerk understands and so does the clerk understands and so does napoleon that this has to be a secret napoleon that this has to be a secret napoleon that this has to be a secret mission otherwise there's gonna be a ton mission otherwise there's gonna be a ton mission otherwise there's gonna be a ton of pushback of pushback of pushback they know they have to get to san luis they know they have to get to san luis they know they have to get to san luis or out of the way though he's too or out of the way though he's too or out of the way though he's too formidable uh in 1801 which is right formidable uh in 1801 which is right formidable uh in 1801 which is right before you know the clerk arrives uh before you know the clerk arrives uh before you know the clerk arrives uh louvature louvature louvature gets a constitution passed for saint gets a constitution passed for saint gets a constitution passed for saint domingue it makes him leader for life domingue it makes him leader for life domingue it makes him leader for life but it also does some things that are but it also does some things that are but it also does some things that are astounding when we think about how far astounding when we think about how far astounding when we think about how far we've come since 1492 right i mean

we've come since 1492 right i mean we've come since 1492 right i mean louverture's 1801 constitution louverture's 1801 constitution louverture's 1801 constitution says quote says quote says quote there cannot exist slaves on this there cannot exist slaves on this there cannot exist slaves on this territory servitude is therein forever territory servitude is therein forever territory servitude is therein forever abolished all men are born live and die abolished all men are born live and die abolished all men are born live and die free and french free and french free and french end quote so you see he's not saying end quote so you see he's not saying end quote so you see he's not saying we're not a part of france anymore he's we're not a part of france anymore he's we're not a part of france anymore he's saying that those ideas of the saying that those ideas of the saying that those ideas of the revolution that you've been uh saying revolution that you've been uh saying revolution that you've been uh saying well we're putting them in our well we're putting them in our well we're putting them in our constitution too just to be safe constitution too just to be safe constitution too just to be safe he also said in the constitution quote he also said in the constitution quote he also said in the constitution quote all men regardless of color are eligible all men regardless of color are eligible all men regardless of color are eligible to all employment to all employment to all employment end quote end quote end quote he says also quote there shall exist no he says also quote there shall exist no he says also quote there shall exist no distinction other than those based on distinction other than those based on distinction other than those based on virtue and talent another superiority virtue and talent another superiority virtue and talent another superiority afforded by law in the exercise of afforded by law in the exercise of afforded by law in the exercise of public function the law is the same for public function the law is the same for public function the law is the same for all whether in punishment or in all whether in punishment or in all whether in punishment or in protection protection protection end quote end quote end quote it is right after this constitution it is right after this constitution it is right after this constitution is adopted that napoleon sends leclerc is adopted that napoleon sends leclerc is adopted that napoleon sends leclerc over to sandoming on his secret mission over to sandoming on his secret mission over to sandoming on his secret mission to basically overturn everything in it to basically overturn everything in it to basically overturn everything in it and the clerk's job is to do it sort of and the clerk's job is to do it sort of and the clerk's job is to do it sort of by hook and by crook and the one thing by hook and by crook and the one thing by hook and by crook and the one thing that can't happen because it will that can't happen because it will that can't happen because it will completely ruin the whole plan is if it completely ruin the whole plan is if it completely ruin the whole plan is if it gets out that his job is to reinstate gets out that his job is to reinstate gets out that his job is to reinstate slavery slavery slavery because then you're going to have a because then you're going to have a because then you're going to have a revolt by the ex-slaves on your hand and revolt by the ex-slaves on your hand and revolt by the ex-slaves on your hand and you can't let the mixed race people know you can't let the mixed race people know you can't let the mixed race people know that you know what what will happen that you know what what will happen that you know what what will happen there will essentially create a caste there will essentially create a caste there will essentially create a caste system based on racial makeup again system based on racial makeup again system based on racial makeup again right or they'll revolt

right or they'll revolt right or they'll revolt got to get rid of tucson louverture got to get rid of tucson louverture got to get rid of tucson louverture because he's not going to stand for because he's not going to stand for because he's not going to stand for you know the reimposition of slavery you know the reimposition of slavery you know the reimposition of slavery he's no angel by the way but nobody that he's no angel by the way but nobody that he's no angel by the way but nobody that comes uh to power in a war of racial comes uh to power in a war of racial comes uh to power in a war of racial exterminations going to be angelic exterminations going to be angelic exterminations going to be angelic but he will be but he will be but he will be outmaneuvered by even friendly allies outmaneuvered by even friendly allies outmaneuvered by even friendly allies there's a lot of side changing all the there's a lot of side changing all the there's a lot of side changing all the way through this whole thing where way through this whole thing where way through this whole thing where allies will all of a sudden become allies will all of a sudden become allies will all of a sudden become enemies but he'll end up seized by the enemies but he'll end up seized by the enemies but he'll end up seized by the french thrown on a ship sent back to french thrown on a ship sent back to french thrown on a ship sent back to france dies france dies france dies in a cold french in a cold french in a cold french jail under potentially mysterious jail under potentially mysterious jail under potentially mysterious circumstances but as leclerc says in a circumstances but as leclerc says in a circumstances but as leclerc says in a letter back to france uh deporting him letter back to france uh deporting him letter back to france uh deporting him is not going to do anything there's 2 is not going to do anything there's 2 is not going to do anything there's 2 000 leaders of this thing you'd have to 000 leaders of this thing you'd have to 000 leaders of this thing you'd have to deport only a little bit before he will die of only a little bit before he will die of yellow fever the clerk will write yellow fever the clerk will write yellow fever the clerk will write a note to the a note to the a note to the navy minister i have it dated on navy minister i have it dated on navy minister i have it dated on september 13 1802 and it's reprinted in september 13 1802 and it's reprinted in september 13 1802 and it's reprinted in david gages's the haitian revolution david gages's the haitian revolution david gages's the haitian revolution and it gives you a sense of how things and it gives you a sense of how things and it gives you a sense of how things are going and he writes quote to give are going and he writes quote to give are going and he writes quote to give you an idea of my losses the seventh you an idea of my losses the seventh you an idea of my losses the seventh regiment arrived here with regiment arrived here with regiment arrived here with 1395 men 1395 men 1395 men it has it present 83 sickly and 107 in it has it present 83 sickly and 107 in it has it present 83 sickly and 107 in the hospital the rest have perished the the hospital the rest have perished the the hospital the rest have perished the 11th light infantry arrived with 1 900 11th light infantry arrived with 1 900 11th light infantry arrived with 1 900 men it has 163 men in service and 201 in

men it has 163 men in service and 201 in men it has 163 men in service and 201 in the hospital the 71st which received the hospital the 71st which received the hospital the 71st which received about a thousand men has 19 serving the about a thousand men has 19 serving the about a thousand men has 19 serving the colors and 133 in hospital colors and 133 in hospital colors and 133 in hospital he continues he continues he continues it is the same with the rest of the army it is the same with the rest of the army it is the same with the rest of the army try and imagine then my position in a try and imagine then my position in a try and imagine then my position in a country that has been in civil war for country that has been in civil war for country that has been in civil war for ten years and where the rebels are ten years and where the rebels are ten years and where the rebels are convinced that we want to reduce them to convinced that we want to reduce them to convinced that we want to reduce them to slavery slavery slavery end quote end quote end quote he's not suggesting they don't he's he's not suggesting they don't he's he's not suggesting they don't he's suggesting they know the plan now and suggesting they know the plan now and suggesting they know the plan now and they're fighting with enthusiasm renewed they're fighting with enthusiasm renewed they're fighting with enthusiasm renewed enthusiasm and renewed hatred this is enthusiasm and renewed hatred this is enthusiasm and renewed hatred this is along with the very first part of the along with the very first part of the along with the very first part of the saint-domingue uprising right the saint-domingue uprising right the saint-domingue uprising right the initial uh massacres at the very initial uh massacres at the very initial uh massacres at the very beginning this is going to be the beginning this is going to be the beginning this is going to be the cold-blooded maybe even more disturbing cold-blooded maybe even more disturbing cold-blooded maybe even more disturbing side of the whole thing and it's not side of the whole thing and it's not side of the whole thing and it's not gratuitous to get into the violence gratuitous to get into the violence gratuitous to get into the violence because we need to understand this is because we need to understand this is because we need to understand this is the sort of news making the rounds and the sort of news making the rounds and the sort of news making the rounds and it is influencing people and influencing it is influencing people and influencing it is influencing people and influencing them you know through their own prism of them you know through their own prism of them you know through their own prism of perception right they all draw different perception right they all draw different perception right they all draw different conclusions from what they're seeing conclusions from what they're seeing conclusions from what they're seeing here but the stories are absolutely here but the stories are absolutely here but the stories are absolutely sent to chill up your spine type stuff sent to chill up your spine type stuff sent to chill up your spine type stuff and on both sides and on both sides and on both sides so one of the things so one of the things so one of the things in gages primary source book the haitian in gages primary source book the haitian in gages primary source book the haitian revolution is he has a revolution is he has a revolution is he has a witness account from a french officer witness account from a french officer witness account from a french officer sort of near the end of this thing when sort of near the end of this thing when sort of near the end of this thing when things are getting really bad and at the things are getting really bad and at the things are getting really bad and at the end of course the british now end of course the british now end of course the british now are on the other side again and they're are on the other side again and they're are on the other side again and they're helping the rebels in san doming and the

helping the rebels in san doming and the helping the rebels in san doming and the generals are switching sides and and the generals are switching sides and and the generals are switching sides and and the power is shifting you know precariously power is shifting you know precariously power is shifting you know precariously and then against the french quickly and and then against the french quickly and and then against the french quickly and atrocities are happening and gages um atrocities are happening and gages um atrocities are happening and gages um prints the account of a french officer prints the account of a french officer prints the account of a french officer named beshaw named beshaw named beshaw who first describes how the french who first describes how the french who first describes how the french soldiers deal soldiers deal soldiers deal with the blacks and he says quote with the blacks and he says quote with the blacks and he says quote drowning is the usual way of putting to drowning is the usual way of putting to drowning is the usual way of putting to death black prisoners i've been told death black prisoners i've been told death black prisoners i've been told that on several occasions thousands were that on several occasions thousands were that on several occasions thousands were drowned at the same time and their drowned at the same time and their drowned at the same time and their bodies were often seen floating onto the bodies were often seen floating onto the bodies were often seen floating onto the shore shore shore humanity is a casualty here those who humanity is a casualty here those who humanity is a casualty here those who are caught in the town secretly plotting are caught in the town secretly plotting are caught in the town secretly plotting against the french are hanged those who against the french are hanged those who against the french are hanged those who have done most harm as leaders or have done most harm as leaders or have done most harm as leaders or otherwise are burned or devoured by dogs otherwise are burned or devoured by dogs otherwise are burned or devoured by dogs the commander-in-chief has brought many the commander-in-chief has brought many the commander-in-chief has brought many large dogs from havana for this purpose large dogs from havana for this purpose large dogs from havana for this purpose end quote end quote end quote but as we've said right but as we've said right but as we've said right revenge is positively newtonian for revenge is positively newtonian for revenge is positively newtonian for every action there's an equal and every action there's an equal and every action there's an equal and opposite reaction and this french opposite reaction and this french opposite reaction and this french officer describes the equal and opposite officer describes the equal and opposite officer describes the equal and opposite reaction and says quote thus we are no reaction and says quote thus we are no reaction and says quote thus we are no longer surprised to learn that the least longer surprised to learn that the least longer surprised to learn that the least of the tortures our prisoners endure is of the tortures our prisoners endure is of the tortures our prisoners endure is to be grilled or barbecued sawn between to be grilled or barbecued sawn between to be grilled or barbecued sawn between two planks have their eyes torn out with two planks have their eyes torn out with two planks have their eyes torn out with the bale hook and then be slashed with the bale hook and then be slashed with the bale hook and then be slashed with the cutlass and be hauled up under the the cutlass and be hauled up under the the cutlass and be hauled up under the armpits to expire under the blows of a armpits to expire under the blows of a armpits to expire under the blows of a cudgel or be given the burning ankles cudgel or be given the burning ankles cudgel or be given the burning ankles torture or others to be made to reveal torture or others to be made to reveal torture or others to be made to reveal information

information information in short he writes every violence that in short he writes every violence that in short he writes every violence that the most refined cruelty could invent to the most refined cruelty could invent to the most refined cruelty could invent to be shot is a favor be shot is a favor be shot is a favor what a war good god the fiercest days of what a war good god the fiercest days of what a war good god the fiercest days of combat in europe do not expose the combat in europe do not expose the combat in europe do not expose the soldier to the suffering that the soldier to the suffering that the soldier to the suffering that the smallest skirmish or ambush here can smallest skirmish or ambush here can smallest skirmish or ambush here can lead to lead to lead to end quote end quote end quote how are you if you're the french ever how are you if you're the french ever how are you if you're the french ever going to going to going to you know you know you know push these kinds of people that have push these kinds of people that have push these kinds of people that have been resisting for a decade or more like been resisting for a decade or more like been resisting for a decade or more like this this this back into bondage how are you going to back into bondage how are you going to back into bondage how are you going to reduce them to the level of chattel reduce them to the level of chattel reduce them to the level of chattel slaves once they've slaves once they've slaves once they've you know had this level of commitment you know had this level of commitment you know had this level of commitment to to to being free right and then and have been being free right and then and have been being free right and then and have been experiencing it for as long as they have experiencing it for as long as they have experiencing it for as long as they have the french understand the problem the french understand the problem the french understand the problem these people have been corrupted with these people have been corrupted with these people have been corrupted with the intellectual contagion of liberty the intellectual contagion of liberty the intellectual contagion of liberty and that makes for bad slaves now maybe and that makes for bad slaves now maybe and that makes for bad slaves now maybe you can you can you can deprogram some of these people would be deprogram some of these people would be deprogram some of these people would be the modern word the modern word the modern word ideologically ideologically ideologically uh reboot them so that they can be uh reboot them so that they can be uh reboot them so that they can be subservient again subservient again subservient again and uh put up with all of the and uh put up with all of the and uh put up with all of the degradations of slavery degradations of slavery degradations of slavery once they've been freed from that right once they've been freed from that right once they've been freed from that right had that spirit that frederick douglass had that spirit that frederick douglass had that spirit that frederick douglass said came out when he contemplated said came out when he contemplated said came out when he contemplated freedom shoved back into the bottle like freedom shoved back into the bottle like freedom shoved back into the bottle like the genie in the lamp but for those but for those that are irredeemable that are irredeemable that are irredeemable you're going to have to kill them

you're going to have to kill them you're going to have to kill them and if it's all of them then you're and if it's all of them then you're and if it's all of them then you're going to have to kill all of them david going to have to kill all of them david going to have to kill all of them david breon davis writes quote breon davis writes quote breon davis writes quote and by the way davis is going to and by the way davis is going to and by the way davis is going to introduce introduce introduce some people into this story that we some people into this story that we some people into this story that we haven't talked about yet some more on haven't talked about yet some more on haven't talked about yet some more on that in a second that in a second that in a second and he writes quote and he writes quote and he writes quote in the fall of 1802 when leclerc died of in the fall of 1802 when leclerc died of in the fall of 1802 when leclerc died of yellow fever while pleading to napoleon yellow fever while pleading to napoleon yellow fever while pleading to napoleon for more troops kristoff and desolene for more troops kristoff and desolene for more troops kristoff and desolene two of saint-domingue's generals two of saint-domingue's generals two of saint-domingue's generals deserted the french leclerc successor deserted the french leclerc successor deserted the french leclerc successor general roshambo then resorted to a general roshambo then resorted to a general roshambo then resorted to a policy of at least partial genocide policy of at least partial genocide policy of at least partial genocide the french concluded that sandoming the french concluded that sandoming the french concluded that sandoming could be pacified only by exterminating could be pacified only by exterminating could be pacified only by exterminating most of the existing black emulator most of the existing black emulator most of the existing black emulator population which could later be replaced population which could later be replaced population which could later be replaced by african slaves by african slaves by african slaves end quote end quote end quote he then says that this racial war this he then says that this racial war this he then says that this racial war this stage in the haitian revolution of 1802 stage in the haitian revolution of 1802 stage in the haitian revolution of 1802 1803 carried profound implications he 1803 carried profound implications he 1803 carried profound implications he said for everybody said for everybody said for everybody black and mulatto specifically and then black and mulatto specifically and then black and mulatto specifically and then says quote says quote says quote napoleon's reversal of french policy napoleon's reversal of french policy napoleon's reversal of french policy showed that a white nation could showed that a white nation could showed that a white nation could reinstitute slavery strip the free reinstitute slavery strip the free reinstitute slavery strip the free descendants of slaves of their rights descendants of slaves of their rights descendants of slaves of their rights and kill even children of the and kill even children of the and kill even children of the stigmatized race if their families had stigmatized race if their families had stigmatized race if their families had been contaminated with ideas of liberty been contaminated with ideas of liberty been contaminated with ideas of liberty end quote end quote end quote he then points out basically he then points out basically he then points out basically that the french are never going to get that the french are never going to get that the french are never going to get the chance to do this because they're the chance to do this because they're the chance to do this because they're going to lose

going to lose going to lose the disease combined with very large the disease combined with very large the disease combined with very large armies commanded by multiple haitian armies commanded by multiple haitian armies commanded by multiple haitian it's still not officially haiti now but it's still not officially haiti now but it's still not officially haiti now but you don't know what to call them they're you don't know what to call them they're you don't know what to call them they're not really the slaves of saint domingue not really the slaves of saint domingue not really the slaves of saint domingue anymore and they're commanding large anymore and they're commanding large anymore and they're commanding large armies 30 40 000 maybe 50 000 people armies 30 40 000 maybe 50 000 people armies 30 40 000 maybe 50 000 people and the british are helping because the and the british are helping because the and the british are helping because the you know war the perennial war between you know war the perennial war between you know war the perennial war between the british and the french is ongoing the british and the french is ongoing the british and the french is ongoing and sometimes british interests will and sometimes british interests will and sometimes british interests will change and french interests will change change and french interests will change change and french interests will change if if it helps hurt the other side and if if it helps hurt the other side and if if it helps hurt the other side and in this case the british are sort of in this case the british are sort of in this case the british are sort of helping the haitian revolution and when helping the haitian revolution and when helping the haitian revolution and when the french have to leave the french have to leave the french have to leave in in in disgrace in like 1803 they'll flee to disgrace in like 1803 they'll flee to disgrace in like 1803 they'll flee to their great arch enemy britain ships in their great arch enemy britain ships in their great arch enemy britain ships in order to be taken off the island so they order to be taken off the island so they order to be taken off the island so they won't be won't be won't be massacred this means that haitian massacred this means that haitian massacred this means that haitian leaders had defeated at one time or leaders had defeated at one time or leaders had defeated at one time or another in this whole affair spanish another in this whole affair spanish another in this whole affair spanish armies british armies french armies armies british armies french armies armies british armies french armies royalist armies royalist armies royalist armies and the guy who's calling the shots by and the guy who's calling the shots by and the guy who's calling the shots by the time all this is over the time all this is over the time all this is over um um um he's a ferocious character is all i can he's a ferocious character is all i can he's a ferocious character is all i can say and don't picture some slave in rags say and don't picture some slave in rags say and don't picture some slave in rags these are people who are dressing like these are people who are dressing like these are people who are dressing like black versions of george washington black versions of george washington black versions of george washington or napoleon or the duke of wellington i or napoleon or the duke of wellington i or napoleon or the duke of wellington i mean they're in those kind of napoleonic mean they're in those kind of napoleonic mean they're in those kind of napoleonic uniforms and the and the hats and the uniforms and the and the hats and the uniforms and the and the hats and the feathers and the whole thing right feathers and the whole thing right feathers and the whole thing right bright colorful outfits but they look bright colorful outfits but they look bright colorful outfits but they look like they're africans like they're africans like they're africans because they are because they are because they are and as soon as this war with the french and as soon as this war with the french and as soon as this war with the french for sandoming is over this ferocious

for sandoming is over this ferocious for sandoming is over this ferocious jean jacques desolene wants to make sure jean jacques desolene wants to make sure jean jacques desolene wants to make sure that the island and its population that the island and its population that the island and its population becomes entirely african and stays that becomes entirely african and stays that becomes entirely african and stays that way way way he'll order an infamous he'll order an infamous he'll order an infamous culling of all of the whites culling of all of the whites culling of all of the whites in sandoming once he takes over an in sandoming once he takes over an in sandoming once he takes over an absolute white genocide absolute white genocide absolute white genocide it is some of the most it is some of the most it is some of the most scary stuff you'll ever read because in scary stuff you'll ever read because in scary stuff you'll ever read because in uh early 1804 he will issue a uh early 1804 he will issue a uh early 1804 he will issue a declaration of independence that sets up declaration of independence that sets up declaration of independence that sets up this this this retaliatory genocide is the way i read retaliatory genocide is the way i read retaliatory genocide is the way i read one account put it write a genocide one account put it write a genocide one account put it write a genocide uh in response to another genocide right uh in response to another genocide right uh in response to another genocide right that one the french were going to do to that one the french were going to do to that one the french were going to do to clean them up all ideologically and and clean them up all ideologically and and clean them up all ideologically and and rid the population of the intellectual rid the population of the intellectual rid the population of the intellectual contagion by burning out those infected contagion by burning out those infected contagion by burning out those infected with it well you know two sides can play with it well you know two sides can play with it well you know two sides can play at that game and the sort of things that at that game and the sort of things that at that game and the sort of things that this zhenjak this zhenjak this zhenjak desaline says desaline says desaline says in the declaration of independence for in the declaration of independence for in the declaration of independence for haiti and then the subsequent haiti and then the subsequent haiti and then the subsequent announcement of several months later announcement of several months later announcement of several months later which is really sort of a which is really sort of a which is really sort of a uh justification for the genocide that uh justification for the genocide that uh justification for the genocide that he's going to inflict are he's going to inflict are he's going to inflict are well there are few things like it in well there are few things like it in well there are few things like it in history and most of the things like it history and most of the things like it history and most of the things like it come from a really long time ago not come from a really long time ago not come from a really long time ago not relatively recently relatively recently relatively recently but not only is it frightful and scary but not only is it frightful and scary but not only is it frightful and scary and intimidating one author i read and intimidating one author i read and intimidating one author i read called it seething called it seething called it seething it's meant to be it's meant to be it's meant to be in the same way that you know the french

in the same way that you know the french in the same way that you know the french colonists wanted their spectacular colonists wanted their spectacular colonists wanted their spectacular executions to send a message and be executions to send a message and be executions to send a message and be horrible and talked about and high horrible and talked about and high horrible and talked about and high profile profile profile jean-jacques desolene feels the same way jean-jacques desolene feels the same way jean-jacques desolene feels the same way and says so and says so and says so the lines from his declaration of the lines from his declaration of the lines from his declaration of independence when you've when you know independence when you've when you know independence when you've when you know what's going to happen next what's going to happen next what's going to happen next are are are frightful frightful frightful i mean he says for example quote i mean he says for example quote i mean he says for example quote for 14 years we have been the victims of for 14 years we have been the victims of for 14 years we have been the victims of our own gullibility and tolerance our own gullibility and tolerance our own gullibility and tolerance defeated not by french arms but by the defeated not by french arms but by the defeated not by french arms but by the pitiful eloquence of their official pitiful eloquence of their official pitiful eloquence of their official proclamations proclamations proclamations when therefore shall we tire of when therefore shall we tire of when therefore shall we tire of breathing the same air as they do breathing the same air as they do breathing the same air as they do what do we have in common with this what do we have in common with this what do we have in common with this murderous nation its cruelty compared to murderous nation its cruelty compared to murderous nation its cruelty compared to our evident moderation it's color unlike our evident moderation it's color unlike our evident moderation it's color unlike our own the wide seas that separate us our own the wide seas that separate us our own the wide seas that separate us our avenging climate all tell us that our avenging climate all tell us that our avenging climate all tell us that they are not our brothers and never will they are not our brothers and never will they are not our brothers and never will be be be if they find refuge among us they will if they find refuge among us they will if they find refuge among us they will again seek to cause trouble and to again seek to cause trouble and to again seek to cause trouble and to divide us divide us divide us end quote end quote end quote he then says you know where are all of he then says you know where are all of he then says you know where are all of your loved ones and he mentions you your loved ones and he mentions you your loved ones and he mentions you sisters brothers children and then he sisters brothers children and then he sisters brothers children and then he says these people these vultures ate says these people these vultures ate says these people these vultures ate them them them what are you gonna do about that i mean what are you gonna do about that i mean what are you gonna do about that i mean there's a lot of implied things here there's a lot of implied things here there's a lot of implied things here and his speech and his speech and his speech after some of this genocide has been after some of this genocide has been after some of this genocide has been carried out delivered a proclamation carried out delivered a proclamation carried out delivered a proclamation delivered at the end of april 1804 and delivered at the end of april 1804 and delivered at the end of april 1804 and written by his secretary because um you written by his secretary because um you written by his secretary because um you know this sort of flowing language

know this sort of flowing language know this sort of flowing language doesn't necessarily uh roll off the doesn't necessarily uh roll off the doesn't necessarily uh roll off the tongue of this former slave he's more of tongue of this former slave he's more of tongue of this former slave he's more of a doer not a talker but his secretary a doer not a talker but his secretary a doer not a talker but his secretary puts some words into his mouth that will puts some words into his mouth that will puts some words into his mouth that will frighten every slave society still on frighten every slave society still on frighten every slave society still on the planet that reads it the planet that reads it the planet that reads it and he connects and he connects and he connects this this this unbelievable bloodletting and the unbelievable bloodletting and the unbelievable bloodletting and the stories are insane i mean 40 foot pools stories are insane i mean 40 foot pools stories are insane i mean 40 foot pools of blood that people have to walk around of blood that people have to walk around of blood that people have to walk around because you know stacks of hundreds and because you know stacks of hundreds and because you know stacks of hundreds and hundreds of white bodies are are on both hundreds of white bodies are are on both hundreds of white bodies are are on both sides of the street just terrible sides of the street just terrible sides of the street just terrible terrible stuff terrible stuff terrible stuff and um and um and um by the way by the way by the way notice notice notice how how how this this this murderous human being murderous human being murderous human being is tying his ideas to the ideas of the is tying his ideas to the ideas of the is tying his ideas to the ideas of the enlightenment right he is the employer enlightenment right he is the employer enlightenment right he is the employer of the weaponized philosophy of the weaponized philosophy of the weaponized philosophy and and and as with everything else as with everything else as with everything else that sounds relatively innocuous and that sounds relatively innocuous and that sounds relatively innocuous and maybe even high-minded moral sentiment maybe even high-minded moral sentiment maybe even high-minded moral sentiment when written on the page and read by the when written on the page and read by the when written on the page and read by the audience sometimes looks a little bit audience sometimes looks a little bit audience sometimes looks a little bit different in practice than in theory different in practice than in theory different in practice than in theory doesn't mean it's wrong doesn't mean it's wrong doesn't mean it's wrong just means just means just means reality is a lot more reality is a lot more reality is a lot more messy messy messy and here we have a person and here we have a person and here we have a person who institutes genocide who institutes genocide who institutes genocide connecting it to you know human rights connecting it to you know human rights connecting it to you know human rights and the preservation of and the preservation of and the preservation of such things such things such things and comparing himself and comparing himself and comparing himself to to to the

the the avenging angel of the entire continent avenging angel of the entire continent avenging angel of the entire continent and all of the indigenous peoples for and all of the indigenous peoples for and all of the indigenous peoples for hundreds of years hundreds of years hundreds of years this is a guy by the way who wanted to this is a guy by the way who wanted to this is a guy by the way who wanted to call his army at one point his army of call his army at one point his army of call his army at one point his army of slaves and free colored people the army slaves and free colored people the army slaves and free colored people the army of the incas so you know where he was of the incas so you know where he was of the incas so you know where he was thinking he thought about calling it the thinking he thought about calling it the thinking he thought about calling it the sons of the son sons of the son sons of the son and he announces and he announces and he announces in in in late april 1804 late april 1804 late april 1804 that you know justice that you know justice that you know justice is being enacted and he says quote is being enacted and he says quote is being enacted and he says quote finally the hour of vengeance has struck finally the hour of vengeance has struck finally the hour of vengeance has struck and the implacable enemies of the rights and the implacable enemies of the rights and the implacable enemies of the rights of man have received the punishment of man have received the punishment of man have received the punishment their crimes deserved i raised over their crimes deserved i raised over their crimes deserved i raised over their guilty heads my arm that for too their guilty heads my arm that for too their guilty heads my arm that for too long had been restrained long had been restrained long had been restrained at this signal ordained by a just god at this signal ordained by a just god at this signal ordained by a just god your hands divinely armed set the axe to your hands divinely armed set the axe to your hands divinely armed set the axe to the ancient tree of slavery and the ancient tree of slavery and the ancient tree of slavery and prejudice prejudice prejudice in vain had time and still more the in vain had time and still more the in vain had time and still more the diabolical politics of the europeans diabolical politics of the europeans diabolical politics of the europeans encased it in triple armor you stripped encased it in triple armor you stripped encased it in triple armor you stripped away this armor and placed it on your away this armor and placed it on your away this armor and placed it on your own breasts own breasts own breasts becoming like your natural enemies cruel becoming like your natural enemies cruel becoming like your natural enemies cruel and pitiless and pitiless and pitiless like an overflowing torrent that roars like an overflowing torrent that roars like an overflowing torrent that roars uproots and carries all before it your uproots and carries all before it your uproots and carries all before it your avenging passion has swept away avenging passion has swept away avenging passion has swept away everything in its impetuous path everything in its impetuous path everything in its impetuous path may thus perish all who tyrannize the may thus perish all who tyrannize the may thus perish all who tyrannize the innocent all oppressors of the human innocent all oppressors of the human innocent all oppressors of the human race yes we have rendered unto these

race yes we have rendered unto these race yes we have rendered unto these true cannibals true cannibals true cannibals war for war crime for crime outrage for war for war crime for crime outrage for war for war crime for crime outrage for outrage outrage outrage yes i have saved my country yes i have saved my country yes i have saved my country i have avenged america i have avenged america i have avenged america end quote this ruler is the one who will rename this ruler is the one who will rename the whole place haiti the whole place haiti the whole place haiti after an indigenous name for the place after an indigenous name for the place after an indigenous name for the place at least that's what i read at least that's what i read at least that's what i read and go on to proclaim himself emperor and go on to proclaim himself emperor and go on to proclaim himself emperor for life for life for life will do what tucson louvature also did will do what tucson louvature also did will do what tucson louvature also did before him reinstate a form of labor before him reinstate a form of labor before him reinstate a form of labor that if it's not slavery sort of looks a that if it's not slavery sort of looks a that if it's not slavery sort of looks a lot like it lot like it lot like it the implication being the implication being the implication being that somehow some kind of forced labor that somehow some kind of forced labor that somehow some kind of forced labor is required to get this economic engine is required to get this economic engine is required to get this economic engine started again the whole area of started again the whole area of started again the whole area of saint-domingue is just devastated and saint-domingue is just devastated and saint-domingue is just devastated and not producing anything like what it used not producing anything like what it used not producing anything like what it used to produce and everyone would love to to produce and everyone would love to to produce and everyone would love to have a gold mine working for them so have a gold mine working for them so have a gold mine working for them so he's going to do that and then within he's going to do that and then within he's going to do that and then within about two three years he's going to be about two three years he's going to be about two three years he's going to be assassinated but what haiti is going to be in the but what haiti is going to be in the history of the slave trade is the knife history of the slave trade is the knife history of the slave trade is the knife at the throat of the slaving nations at the throat of the slaving nations at the throat of the slaving nations the warning that like reynolds said if the warning that like reynolds said if the warning that like reynolds said if we can't we can't we can't appeal to your humanitarian nature appeal to your humanitarian nature appeal to your humanitarian nature well how does it feel to have well how does it feel to have well how does it feel to have a sharp blade pressing up against your a sharp blade pressing up against your a sharp blade pressing up against your skin metaphorically speaking in 1807 skin metaphorically speaking in 1807 skin metaphorically speaking in 1807 within about a week of each other within about a week of each other within about a week of each other and that's only a couple years after and that's only a couple years after and that's only a couple years after those quotes we just read from

those quotes we just read from those quotes we just read from jean-jacques desolene jean-jacques desolene jean-jacques desolene both the united states and britain with both the united states and britain with both the united states and britain with britain about a week ahead of time but britain about a week ahead of time but britain about a week ahead of time but apparently no consultation between the apparently no consultation between the apparently no consultation between the two are both going to prohibit the two are both going to prohibit the two are both going to prohibit the atlantic slave trade and not just for atlantic slave trade and not just for atlantic slave trade and not just for themselves but eventually for everyone themselves but eventually for everyone themselves but eventually for everyone britain will go from britain will go from britain will go from being the greatest being the greatest being the greatest slave trading nation on the high seas to slave trading nation on the high seas to slave trading nation on the high seas to seizing every slave ship that they can seizing every slave ship that they can seizing every slave ship that they can find find find the united states the united states the united states on the very first day that the united on the very first day that the united on the very first day that the united states is allowed to under the united states is allowed to under the united states is allowed to under the united states constitution there was a 20-year states constitution there was a 20-year states constitution there was a 20-year prohibition on the federal government of prohibition on the federal government of prohibition on the federal government of the united states prohibiting the slave the united states prohibiting the slave the united states prohibiting the slave trade the day that they're allowed to trade the day that they're allowed to trade the day that they're allowed to which is january 1st 1808 they do let's not get all let's not get all um rainbows and unicorns about this um rainbows and unicorns about this um rainbows and unicorns about this there's lots of reasons for this some of there's lots of reasons for this some of there's lots of reasons for this some of which are very high minded and once which are very high minded and once which are very high minded and once again when you read thomas jefferson's again when you read thomas jefferson's again when you read thomas jefferson's um stringent arguments for this and um stringent arguments for this and um stringent arguments for this and he'll be the one that signs the whole he'll be the one that signs the whole he'll be the one that signs the whole thing into law thing into law thing into law he sounds like the greatest anti-slave he sounds like the greatest anti-slave he sounds like the greatest anti-slave person you've ever heard in your life he person you've ever heard in your life he person you've ever heard in your life he did so hard to get your mind around the did so hard to get your mind around the did so hard to get your mind around the man um you could literally cut and paste man um you could literally cut and paste man um you could literally cut and paste what he said and put it on an what he said and put it on an what he said and put it on an anti-slavery flag anti-slavery flag anti-slavery flag but you don't know why all these people but you don't know why all these people but you don't know why all these people are doing this and in jefferson's terms are doing this and in jefferson's terms are doing this and in jefferson's terms you can read his writing though and you can read his writing though and you can read his writing though and realize he's a bit of a nostradamus and realize he's a bit of a nostradamus and realize he's a bit of a nostradamus and he figures out before the genocide in he figures out before the genocide in he figures out before the genocide in haiti ever even begins way back in 1797

haiti ever even begins way back in 1797 haiti ever even begins way back in 1797 that the fuse is lit now and he has this that the fuse is lit now and he has this that the fuse is lit now and he has this phrase that just sticks into my head but phrase that just sticks into my head but phrase that just sticks into my head but this is what the knife to the throat this is what the knife to the throat this is what the knife to the throat means he says we're going to be the means he says we're going to be the means he says we're going to be the murderers of our own children and he murderers of our own children and he murderers of our own children and he wrote a letter wrote a letter wrote a letter to george tucker on august 28 1797 and in it he said talking about santo and in it he said talking about santo domingo which was their name for san domingo which was their name for san domingo which was their name for san doming which will become haiti doming which will become haiti doming which will become haiti and he says we're going to have to have and he says we're going to have to have and he says we're going to have to have a soft landing from this and it's going a soft landing from this and it's going a soft landing from this and it's going to have to be sooner than to have to be sooner than to have to be sooner than than we thought than we thought than we thought jefferson is already suggesting that it jefferson is already suggesting that it jefferson is already suggesting that it may be too late for a soft landing from may be too late for a soft landing from may be too late for a soft landing from slavery slavery slavery but there's a lot of important questions but there's a lot of important questions but there's a lot of important questions that would have to be figured out that would have to be figured out that would have to be figured out and he says that this first chapter and he says that this first chapter and he says that this first chapter which has begun he says in san domingo which has begun he says in san domingo which has begun he says in san domingo and the next succeeding ones he said and the next succeeding ones he said and the next succeeding ones he said which will show how the whites are going which will show how the whites are going which will show how the whites are going to be driven out from all the other to be driven out from all the other to be driven out from all the other islands he says that should prepare our islands he says that should prepare our islands he says that should prepare our minds for thinking about this minds for thinking about this minds for thinking about this and then says quote and then says quote and then says quote and the sooner we put some plan underway and the sooner we put some plan underway and the sooner we put some plan underway the greater hope there is that it may be the greater hope there is that it may be the greater hope there is that it may be permitted to proceed peaceably to its permitted to proceed peaceably to its permitted to proceed peaceably to its ultimate effect ultimate effect ultimate effect but if something is not done and soon but if something is not done and soon but if something is not done and soon done we shall be the murderers of our done we shall be the murderers of our done we shall be the murderers of our own children own children own children he then quotes he then quotes he then quotes a latin phrase which means the breezes a latin phrase which means the breezes a latin phrase which means the breezes warning the sailors of the coming gale warning the sailors of the coming gale warning the sailors of the coming gale and then continues has already reached and then continues has already reached and then continues has already reached us the revolutionary storm now sweeping us the revolutionary storm now sweeping us the revolutionary storm now sweeping the globe will be upon us and happy if

the globe will be upon us and happy if the globe will be upon us and happy if we make timely provision to give it an we make timely provision to give it an we make timely provision to give it an easy passage over our land easy passage over our land easy passage over our land from the present state of things in from the present state of things in from the present state of things in europe and america he wrote the day europe and america he wrote the day europe and america he wrote the day which begins our combustion must be near which begins our combustion must be near which begins our combustion must be near at hand and only a single spark is at hand and only a single spark is at hand and only a single spark is wanting to make that day tomorrow wanting to make that day tomorrow wanting to make that day tomorrow if we had begun sooner we might probably if we had begun sooner we might probably if we had begun sooner we might probably have allowed a lengthier operation to have allowed a lengthier operation to have allowed a lengthier operation to clear ourselves but every day's delay clear ourselves but every day's delay clear ourselves but every day's delay lessens the time we may take for lessens the time we may take for lessens the time we may take for emancipation emancipation emancipation end quote end quote end quote he's scared he's scared he's scared this isn't high-minded enlightenment this isn't high-minded enlightenment this isn't high-minded enlightenment ideals he's seeing the murder of his own ideals he's seeing the murder of his own ideals he's seeing the murder of his own children children children maybe he's seeing the u.s civil war maybe he's seeing the u.s civil war maybe he's seeing the u.s civil war and maybe he's seeing haiti and i'm sure there are people and i'm sure there are people intelligent and intelligent and intelligent and knowledgeable enough to tease out the knowledgeable enough to tease out the knowledgeable enough to tease out the importance of all the individual strands importance of all the individual strands importance of all the individual strands that make up reality in the story you that make up reality in the story you that make up reality in the story you know everything from know everything from know everything from the impact of the abolitionist movement the impact of the abolitionist movement the impact of the abolitionist movement that's grown around the world that's grown around the world that's grown around the world the effect of the effect of the effect of changing economics which incentivize changing economics which incentivize changing economics which incentivize different things different things different things in more modern times than they did in more modern times than they did in more modern times than they did earlier earlier earlier the the the leveling up maybe of global leveling up maybe of global leveling up maybe of global morays and attitudes towards morality morays and attitudes towards morality morays and attitudes towards morality the impact of religion which is also the impact of religion which is also the impact of religion which is also tied up with the abolitionist movement i tied up with the abolitionist movement i tied up with the abolitionist movement i don't know don't know don't know what value any of those things should what value any of those things should what value any of those things should have in relation to anything else and of have in relation to anything else and of have in relation to anything else and of course slave revolts and the threat of

course slave revolts and the threat of course slave revolts and the threat of violence as well violence as well violence as well i will say that i will say that i will say that in 1893 which is 90 years it's the in 1893 which is 90 years it's the in 1893 which is 90 years it's the 90-year anniversary of the haitian 90-year anniversary of the haitian 90-year anniversary of the haitian revolution and it is also 30 years since revolution and it is also 30 years since revolution and it is also 30 years since the emancipation proclamation freed the the emancipation proclamation freed the the emancipation proclamation freed the slaves in the united states a very slaves in the united states a very slaves in the united states a very elderly and not that far away from death elderly and not that far away from death elderly and not that far away from death frederick douglass will give a speech in frederick douglass will give a speech in frederick douglass will give a speech in chicago chicago chicago um sort of like the kicking off of the um sort of like the kicking off of the um sort of like the kicking off of the world's fair there's an exhibit there world's fair there's an exhibit there world's fair there's an exhibit there that's going to involve haiti and he's that's going to involve haiti and he's that's going to involve haiti and he's been a representative to haiti for the been a representative to haiti for the been a representative to haiti for the united states and so he's invited to united states and so he's invited to united states and so he's invited to speak to a crowd that is um speak to a crowd that is um speak to a crowd that is um called by a contemporary source quote called by a contemporary source quote called by a contemporary source quote fifteen hundred of the best citizens of fifteen hundred of the best citizens of fifteen hundred of the best citizens of chicago end quote so think rich powerful chicago end quote so think rich powerful chicago end quote so think rich powerful white white white the eighteen nineties are no kumbaya the eighteen nineties are no kumbaya the eighteen nineties are no kumbaya time for black folks there's lots of time for black folks there's lots of time for black folks there's lots of lynchings going on um no equal rights at lynchings going on um no equal rights at lynchings going on um no equal rights at all i mean it's it's nothing to look all i mean it's it's nothing to look all i mean it's it's nothing to look back on as some sort of rainbows and back on as some sort of rainbows and back on as some sort of rainbows and unicorns era for racial harmony but it's unicorns era for racial harmony but it's unicorns era for racial harmony but it's interesting to note interesting to note interesting to note the reaction of this crowd to the speech the reaction of this crowd to the speech the reaction of this crowd to the speech because the speech is one because the speech is one because the speech is one that praises what happened 90 years that praises what happened 90 years that praises what happened 90 years previously in haiti previously in haiti previously in haiti a a a race war where both sides were race war where both sides were race war where both sides were exterminating each other and the worst exterminating each other and the worst exterminating each other and the worst atrocities imaginable were going on atrocities imaginable were going on atrocities imaginable were going on and when frederick douglass says and when frederick douglass says and when frederick douglass says things about the revolution that are things about the revolution that are things about the revolution that are uber positive the crowd applauds

uber positive the crowd applauds uber positive the crowd applauds when he decries the fact that a haitian when he decries the fact that a haitian when he decries the fact that a haitian person coming to the united states you person coming to the united states you person coming to the united states you know a haitian person that will be know a haitian person that will be know a haitian person that will be treated you know very well in the same treated you know very well in the same treated you know very well in the same all over the world will be discriminated all over the world will be discriminated all over the world will be discriminated against and treated unfairly and it against and treated unfairly and it against and treated unfairly and it shouldn't be that way the crowd applauds shouldn't be that way the crowd applauds shouldn't be that way the crowd applauds i mean this is not an audience of i mean this is not an audience of i mean this is not an audience of black folks black folks black folks or white radicals this is the power or white radicals this is the power or white radicals this is the power structure structure structure and this is a famous speech by frederick and this is a famous speech by frederick and this is a famous speech by frederick douglass where he points out you know douglass where he points out you know douglass where he points out you know his his his maybe maybe maybe two cents on the question of how much two cents on the question of how much two cents on the question of how much did all these different things did all these different things did all these different things abolitionism economics morals slave abolitionism economics morals slave abolitionism economics morals slave revolts revolts revolts how much did each of them play in the how much did each of them play in the how much did each of them play in the whole thing whole thing whole thing he said and i have the transcript so the he said and i have the transcript so the he said and i have the transcript so the applause is mentioned when it happens applause is mentioned when it happens applause is mentioned when it happens quote in just vindication of haiti i can quote in just vindication of haiti i can quote in just vindication of haiti i can go one step further go one step further go one step further i can speak of her not only words of i can speak of her not only words of i can speak of her not only words of admiration but words of gratitude as admiration but words of gratitude as admiration but words of gratitude as well well well she has grandly served the cause of she has grandly served the cause of she has grandly served the cause of universal human liberty universal human liberty universal human liberty we should not forget that the freedom we should not forget that the freedom we should not forget that the freedom you and i enjoy today you and i enjoy today you and i enjoy today that the freedom that eight hundred that the freedom that eight hundred that the freedom that eight hundred thousand colored people enjoy in the thousand colored people enjoy in the thousand colored people enjoy in the british west indies british west indies british west indies the freedom that has come to the colored the freedom that has come to the colored the freedom that has come to the colored race the world over race the world over race the world over is largely due to the brave stand taken is largely due to the brave stand taken is largely due to the brave stand taken by the black sons of haiti 90 years ago by the black sons of haiti 90 years ago by the black sons of haiti 90 years ago when they struck for freedom he said when they struck for freedom he said when they struck for freedom he said they builded better than they knew they builded better than they knew they builded better than they knew their swords were not drawn and could

their swords were not drawn and could their swords were not drawn and could not be drawn simply for themselves alone not be drawn simply for themselves alone not be drawn simply for themselves alone they were linked and interlinked with they were linked and interlinked with they were linked and interlinked with their race and striking for their their race and striking for their their race and striking for their freedom they struck for the freedom of freedom they struck for the freedom of freedom they struck for the freedom of every black man in the world end quote every black man in the world end quote every black man in the world end quote and then my transcript says and then my transcript says and then my transcript says prolonged applause well i'm not going to argue with well i'm not going to argue with frederick douglass about what he thinks frederick douglass about what he thinks frederick douglass about what he thinks the most important strands of all this the most important strands of all this the most important strands of all this change in the zeitgeist were change in the zeitgeist were change in the zeitgeist were i'm just going to say that the fact that i'm just going to say that the fact that i'm just going to say that the fact that that audience in that era that audience in that era that audience in that era comprised of those particular people comprised of those particular people comprised of those particular people applauding like that and the applause is applauding like that and the applause is applauding like that and the applause is over and over and over again over and over and over again over and over and over again is a sign that there was something else is a sign that there was something else is a sign that there was something else at work too a pinging between at work too a pinging between at work too a pinging between you know changes in our attitudes you know changes in our attitudes you know changes in our attitudes and demands that our attitudes change that story that we just ended the that story that we just ended the conversation with the one where conversation with the one where conversation with the one where frederick douglass was being interrupted frederick douglass was being interrupted frederick douglass was being interrupted by wave after wave of applause by the by wave after wave of applause by the by wave after wave of applause by the best citizens in air quotes in chicago best citizens in air quotes in chicago best citizens in air quotes in chicago it's not worthy that that is a northern it's not worthy that that is a northern it's not worthy that that is a northern state state state and that in the 1890s had that speech and that in the 1890s had that speech and that in the 1890s had that speech been given been given been given in a place like atlanta it might have in a place like atlanta it might have in a place like atlanta it might have been received quite differently and i'm been received quite differently and i'm been received quite differently and i'm sort of fascinated by the reasons that sort of fascinated by the reasons that sort of fascinated by the reasons that might be might be might be because because because we ended this story because the story

we ended this story because the story we ended this story because the story was about the atlantic slave trade was about the atlantic slave trade was about the atlantic slave trade specifically specifically specifically in the middle as far as a lot of people in the middle as far as a lot of people in the middle as far as a lot of people are concerned right we still don't get are concerned right we still don't get are concerned right we still don't get the last 60 70 years of slavery in the last 60 70 years of slavery in the last 60 70 years of slavery in places like brazil and cuba and the places like brazil and cuba and the places like brazil and cuba and the southern united states right the big southern united states right the big southern united states right the big last holdouts in the americas last holdouts in the americas last holdouts in the americas maybe that's for another day and if so maybe that's for another day and if so maybe that's for another day and if so my entire life's work on the question of my entire life's work on the question of my entire life's work on the question of bondage will be a three-part series bondage will be a three-part series bondage will be a three-part series right the first one was about the right the first one was about the right the first one was about the institution as a whole worldwide this institution as a whole worldwide this institution as a whole worldwide this current one was about the logistical current one was about the logistical current one was about the logistical part of the of the atlantic slave trade part of the of the atlantic slave trade part of the of the atlantic slave trade and maybe the last part someday will be and maybe the last part someday will be and maybe the last part someday will be about how it ended in places like the about how it ended in places like the about how it ended in places like the united states but it's worth pointing united states but it's worth pointing united states but it's worth pointing out that it ended differently in some of out that it ended differently in some of out that it ended differently in some of these holdout places and maybe these holdout places and maybe these holdout places and maybe there's some interesting there's some interesting there's some interesting stuff to mine from that and i'll leave stuff to mine from that and i'll leave stuff to mine from that and i'll leave it to more intelligent people than yours it to more intelligent people than yours it to more intelligent people than yours truly i can pose the question maybe you truly i can pose the question maybe you truly i can pose the question maybe you have the answer but have the answer but have the answer but we've been comparing this we've been comparing this we've been comparing this to an addiction the whole time right to an addiction the whole time right to an addiction the whole time right addicted to bondage addicted to bondage addicted to bondage is there a difference between an addict is there a difference between an addict is there a difference between an addict deciding that they have had enough of deciding that they have had enough of deciding that they have had enough of what they're doing or that it's bad for what they're doing or that it's bad for what they're doing or that it's bad for them or that it's wrong or any number of them or that it's wrong or any number of them or that it's wrong or any number of things where they might decide for things where they might decide for things where they might decide for themselves that it is time for me to themselves that it is time for me to themselves that it is time for me to stop this behavior that i that i do too stop this behavior that i that i do too stop this behavior that i that i do too often and that is not good for me long often and that is not good for me long often and that is not good for me long term versus someone who simply has an term versus someone who simply has an term versus someone who simply has an outside authority come in and say outside authority come in and say outside authority come in and say okay you're not doing this anymore we're okay you're not doing this anymore we're okay you're not doing this anymore we're taking this stuff that you have a habit taking this stuff that you have a habit taking this stuff that you have a habit for that you're hooked to and we're for that you're hooked to and we're for that you're hooked to and we're going to prohibit you from using again going to prohibit you from using again going to prohibit you from using again so those people didn't come to their own so those people didn't come to their own so those people didn't come to their own conclusion that what they were doing conclusion that what they were doing conclusion that what they were doing needed to stop somebody just stopped it

needed to stop somebody just stopped it needed to stop somebody just stopped it i mean the u.s south for example and you i mean the u.s south for example and you i mean the u.s south for example and you know when you make these statements it's know when you make these statements it's know when you make these statements it's like saying the germans in the second like saying the germans in the second like saying the germans in the second world war well the germans in the second world war well the germans in the second world war well the germans in the second world war might have had a whole lot of world war might have had a whole lot of world war might have had a whole lot of different ideas they're not one group of different ideas they're not one group of different ideas they're not one group of people so we're generalizing but the people so we're generalizing but the people so we're generalizing but the american south never came to the american south never came to the american south never came to the conclusion as a whole that slavery was conclusion as a whole that slavery was conclusion as a whole that slavery was wrong that they should get rid of it wrong that they should get rid of it wrong that they should get rid of it that it was an abomination that it was an abomination that it was an abomination that it was past its historical cell by that it was past its historical cell by that it was past its historical cell by date those things were never a part of date those things were never a part of date those things were never a part of the equation the equation the equation right and we'd asked earlier i believe right and we'd asked earlier i believe right and we'd asked earlier i believe you know how long would it have taken you know how long would it have taken you know how long would it have taken the south to eliminate slavery on its the south to eliminate slavery on its the south to eliminate slavery on its own had there not been a u.s civil war own had there not been a u.s civil war own had there not been a u.s civil war and an emancipation proclamation i mean and an emancipation proclamation i mean and an emancipation proclamation i mean cuba did it in 1886 which is the year cuba did it in 1886 which is the year cuba did it in 1886 which is the year geronimo surrenders in the american geronimo surrenders in the american geronimo surrenders in the american indian wars as they were called then um indian wars as they were called then um indian wars as they were called then um sort of officially end battle of wounded sort of officially end battle of wounded sort of officially end battle of wounded knees still going to happen that's more knees still going to happen that's more knees still going to happen that's more of a massacre of a massacre of a massacre but brazil doesn't officially abolish but brazil doesn't officially abolish but brazil doesn't officially abolish slavery until 1888 that's almost the slavery until 1888 that's almost the slavery until 1888 that's almost the 20th century so these last holdouts who have a ton of so these last holdouts who have a ton of slaves left are seeing slaves left are seeing slaves left are seeing their individual stories end differently their individual stories end differently their individual stories end differently than sort of the global version than sort of the global version than sort of the global version they did not participate in this they did not participate in this they did not participate in this uh sort of leveling up of public opinion uh sort of leveling up of public opinion uh sort of leveling up of public opinion and the turning of the iceberg during and the turning of the iceberg during and the turning of the iceberg during the time it turned the time it turned the time it turned they're like the last smokers in a world they're like the last smokers in a world they're like the last smokers in a world that's moved past cigarettes that's moved past cigarettes that's moved past cigarettes i wonder if that changes how subsequent i wonder if that changes how subsequent i wonder if that changes how subsequent history went the other thing that's kind history went the other thing that's kind history went the other thing that's kind of worth pointing out is that you will of worth pointing out is that you will of worth pointing out is that you will often hear people talk about how slavery often hear people talk about how slavery often hear people talk about how slavery ended more than 100 years ago and people

ended more than 100 years ago and people ended more than 100 years ago and people need to get over it but they're ignoring need to get over it but they're ignoring need to get over it but they're ignoring the fact that it didn't really end 100 the fact that it didn't really end 100 the fact that it didn't really end 100 years ago because once the united states years ago because once the united states years ago because once the united states civil war to just use the american civil war to just use the american civil war to just use the american example only ended example only ended example only ended many of the same many of the same many of the same elements from slavery are put back into elements from slavery are put back into elements from slavery are put back into place not all of them but many of the place not all of them but many of the place not all of them but many of the same elements including the one element same elements including the one element same elements including the one element that we still live with today that we still live with today that we still live with today this this this inherited inherited inherited skin color based cast system skin color based cast system skin color based cast system which probably would have died out by which probably would have died out by which probably would have died out by now if it hadn't been around even when i now if it hadn't been around even when i now if it hadn't been around even when i was a kid legally was a kid legally was a kid legally as we said in the south it was legal for as we said in the south it was legal for as we said in the south it was legal for places to say that they were only going places to say that they were only going places to say that they were only going to have white stay in their hotels or to have white stay in their hotels or to have white stay in their hotels or whites eat in their restaurant there's whites eat in their restaurant there's whites eat in their restaurant there's famous photographs of dr martin luther famous photographs of dr martin luther famous photographs of dr martin luther king being handcuffed at a lunch counter king being handcuffed at a lunch counter king being handcuffed at a lunch counter in a southern restaurant simply for in a southern restaurant simply for in a southern restaurant simply for having the audacity as a black man to having the audacity as a black man to having the audacity as a black man to sit there sit there sit there rosa parks on the bus i mean these are rosa parks on the bus i mean these are rosa parks on the bus i mean these are famous stories that happen famous stories that happen famous stories that happen not that long ago not that long ago not that long ago so it's not quite slavery but it's not so it's not quite slavery but it's not so it's not quite slavery but it's not quite freedom either quite freedom either quite freedom either and even after the 1960s and even after the 1960s and even after the 1960s this caste system still lives in the this caste system still lives in the this caste system still lives in the minds and hearts of many people minds and hearts of many people minds and hearts of many people i don't know what a natural amount of i don't know what a natural amount of i don't know what a natural amount of time time time to estimate it would take for that to to estimate it would take for that to to estimate it would take for that to die out die out die out but i do think we have to remember but i do think we have to remember but i do think we have to remember that if something like that looks like that if something like that looks like that if something like that looks like really

really really retrograde retrograde retrograde or backwards kind of thinking or backwards kind of thinking or backwards kind of thinking that it is connected to an era that it is connected to an era that it is connected to an era where the people who came up with this where the people who came up with this where the people who came up with this thing thing thing still had still had still had the middle ages reflected back at them the middle ages reflected back at them the middle ages reflected back at them in their historical rear-view mirror be sure to follow us on twitter the be sure to follow us on twitter the addresses at hardcore history addresses at hardcore history addresses at hardcore history for hardcore history t-shirts or other for hardcore history t-shirts or other for hardcore history t-shirts or other merchandise go to dan carlin.com if you merchandise go to dan carlin.com if you merchandise go to dan carlin.com if you think the show you just heard is worth a think the show you just heard is worth a think the show you just heard is worth a dollar dan and ben would love to have it dollar dan and ben would love to have it dollar dan and ben would love to have it a buck a show it's all we ask a buck a show it's all we ask a buck a show it's all we ask go to dan carlin.com for information on go to dan carlin.com for information on go to dan carlin.com for information on how to donate to the show hey everyone how to donate to the show hey everyone how to donate to the show hey everyone back for one quick second to talk again back for one quick second to talk again back for one quick second to talk again about battle guide virtual tours you may about battle guide virtual tours you may about battle guide virtual tours you may have heard me bring them up before have heard me bring them up before have heard me bring them up before um i i hooked up with these guys during um i i hooked up with these guys during um i i hooked up with these guys during the first bit of covit when they were the first bit of covit when they were the first bit of covit when they were doing live tours doing live tours doing live tours of places like battlefields in france of places like battlefields in france of places like battlefields in france and everything and all of a sudden were and everything and all of a sudden were and everything and all of a sudden were shut down and this is the way they shut down and this is the way they shut down and this is the way they figured out how to pivot from that as so figured out how to pivot from that as so figured out how to pivot from that as so many other business owners have had to many other business owners have had to many other business owners have had to figure out what to do in the same figure out what to do in the same figure out what to do in the same circumstances and i love the way these circumstances and i love the way these circumstances and i love the way these guys did it they converted guys did it they converted guys did it they converted the battlefield tours into virtual the battlefield tours into virtual the battlefield tours into virtual things and it allowed them to utilize a things and it allowed them to utilize a things and it allowed them to utilize a bunch of different elements that bunch of different elements that bunch of different elements that obviously wouldn't have been obviously wouldn't have been obviously wouldn't have been available in a live situation and i'm

available in a live situation and i'm available in a live situation and i'm not saying this is superior to a live not saying this is superior to a live not saying this is superior to a live situation they both have their strengths situation they both have their strengths situation they both have their strengths and weaknesses what i am saying is if and weaknesses what i am saying is if and weaknesses what i am saying is if you save up all the money as an american you save up all the money as an american you save up all the money as an american to go to northern france and walk these to go to northern france and walk these to go to northern france and walk these battlefields first of all there will be battlefields first of all there will be battlefields first of all there will be things missing that you won't understand things missing that you won't understand things missing that you won't understand you'll have to come home and read about you'll have to come home and read about you'll have to come home and read about later which you get as part of these later which you get as part of these later which you get as part of these battle guide virtual tours when you do battle guide virtual tours when you do battle guide virtual tours when you do those but how likely are you next week those but how likely are you next week those but how likely are you next week after you get home from what would be an after you get home from what would be an after you get home from what would be an expensive and long trip to france to do expensive and long trip to france to do expensive and long trip to france to do this to want to go to russia and visit this to want to go to russia and visit this to want to go to russia and visit stalingrad right stalingrad right stalingrad right but you do that in a virtual sense you but you do that in a virtual sense you but you do that in a virtual sense you can go on a different can go on a different can go on a different you know battlefield tour every day you know battlefield tour every day you know battlefield tour every day there's different ways to access them by there's different ways to access them by there's different ways to access them by the way there's a live version which you the way there's a live version which you the way there's a live version which you can be a part of it online when they're can be a part of it online when they're can be a part of it online when they're doing it live and the historian is there doing it live and the historian is there doing it live and the historian is there and you can ask questions and all kinds and you can ask questions and all kinds and you can ask questions and all kinds of things like that of things like that of things like that so that's a real time thing but then so that's a real time thing but then so that's a real time thing but then that goes you know into the archives and that goes you know into the archives and that goes you know into the archives and is available for you to download anytime is available for you to download anytime is available for you to download anytime anywhere right as the as a sort of a anywhere right as the as a sort of a anywhere right as the as a sort of a hard copy version hard copy version hard copy version and you can buy those individually you and you can buy those individually you and you can buy those individually you can sign up for a subscription service can sign up for a subscription service can sign up for a subscription service and access all of them and they have new and access all of them and they have new and access all of them and they have new ones all the time i just think if you're ones all the time i just think if you're ones all the time i just think if you're a military history fan uh this is a this a military history fan uh this is a this a military history fan uh this is a this is a gimme kind of kind of thing and is a gimme kind of kind of thing and is a gimme kind of kind of thing and especially for a gift for people that especially for a gift for people that especially for a gift for people that you may know who are also a military you may know who are also a military you may know who are also a military history fans uh this is a fun thing and history fans uh this is a fun thing and history fans uh this is a fun thing and it's worth trying and if you'd like to it's worth trying and if you'd like to it's worth trying and if you'd like to just try and get 50 off you can go just try and get 50 off you can go just try and get 50 off you can go to battleguide dot co dot uk forward to battleguide dot co dot uk forward to battleguide dot co dot uk forward slash dan hyphen carlin slash dan hyphen carlin slash dan hyphen carlin that's that's that's battleguy.co.uk forward slash dan hyphen

battleguy.co.uk forward slash dan hyphen battleguy.co.uk forward slash dan hyphen carlin and you'll get 50 off any one of carlin and you'll get 50 off any one of carlin and you'll get 50 off any one of the currently up on the archive tours the currently up on the archive tours the currently up on the archive tours see what it's all about but we're see what it's all about but we're see what it's all about but we're talking about something that combines talking about something that combines talking about something that combines you know technology like drone images you know technology like drone images you know technology like drone images 360 and satellite imagery on the ground 360 and satellite imagery on the ground 360 and satellite imagery on the ground video veteran accounts period footage video veteran accounts period footage video veteran accounts period footage photographs it's an interesting mix of photographs it's an interesting mix of photographs it's an interesting mix of things that if you are things that if you are things that if you are interested in this kind of stuff manages interested in this kind of stuff manages interested in this kind of stuff manages to illuminate the complexity of these to illuminate the complexity of these to illuminate the complexity of these battlefields in ways that is difficult battlefields in ways that is difficult battlefields in ways that is difficult to conceptualize to conceptualize to conceptualize in any other situation those of you out in any other situation those of you out in any other situation those of you out there who've read books who've looked at there who've read books who've looked at there who've read books who've looked at maps who've seen movies you try to get a maps who've seen movies you try to get a maps who've seen movies you try to get a mental image of things this is one of mental image of things this is one of mental image of things this is one of the best ways i've ever discovered to do the best ways i've ever discovered to do the best ways i've ever discovered to do it i hope you'll check it out go to it i hope you'll check it out go to it i hope you'll check it out go to battle guide dot co dot uk forward slash battle guide dot co dot uk forward slash battle guide dot co dot uk forward slash dan hyphen karlin get 50 off and see dan hyphen karlin get 50 off and see dan hyphen karlin get 50 off and see what i'm talking about