EP12 Wolf Pack Hunting with Hanks

it's hardcore history attention we told it's hardcore history attention we told you when we first unveiled the hardcore you when we first unveiled the hardcore you when we first unveiled the hardcore history addendum feed that this was history addendum feed that this was history addendum feed that this was going to be the everything else feed going to be the everything else feed going to be the everything else feed anything that didn't belong in the main anything that didn't belong in the main anything that didn't belong in the main hardcore history feed for one reason or hardcore history feed for one reason or hardcore history feed for one reason or another will end up here another will end up here another will end up here we knew there would be interview shows we knew there would be interview shows we knew there would be interview shows because compared to what we normally do because compared to what we normally do because compared to what we normally do the big hardcore history shows interview the big hardcore history shows interview the big hardcore history shows interview shows are simple so we knew that there'd shows are simple so we knew that there'd shows are simple so we knew that there'd be quite a few of those and that we be quite a few of those and that we be quite a few of those and that we would try to switch him up and do them would try to switch him up and do them would try to switch him up and do them differently like the one we did recently differently like the one we did recently differently like the one we did recently were I was the one who got interviewed were I was the one who got interviewed were I was the one who got interviewed and then we knew there'd be some funky and then we knew there'd be some funky and then we knew there'd be some funky kind of shows that probably would have kind of shows that probably would have kind of shows that probably would have set some people on the main feed but set some people on the main feed but set some people on the main feed but that some people would really like a that some people would really like a that some people would really like a like our Caesar at Hastings show which like our Caesar at Hastings show which like our Caesar at Hastings show which we put on this feed and then sometimes we put on this feed and then sometimes we put on this feed and then sometimes it's what probably could easily pass for it's what probably could easily pass for it's what probably could easily pass for a hardcore history show but for one a hardcore history show but for one a hardcore history show but for one reason or another it's not the right reason or another it's not the right reason or another it's not the right time or place we have the one that we time or place we have the one that we time or place we have the one that we did on alexander the great's mother that did on alexander the great's mother that did on alexander the great's mother that had we put it out on the main feed it had we put it out on the main feed it had we put it out on the main feed it would have interrupted an ongoing series would have interrupted an ongoing series would have interrupted an ongoing series so we put it out on this feed so I hope so we put it out on this feed so I hope so we put it out on this feed so I hope that over time when you look at the that over time when you look at the that over time when you look at the archives of the hardcore history archives of the hardcore history archives of the hardcore history addendums show offerings you know in addendums show offerings you know in addendums show offerings you know in Mass you will have an eclectic grab-bag Mass you will have an eclectic grab-bag Mass you will have an eclectic grab-bag of potential offerings you know that of potential offerings you know that of potential offerings you know that looks pretty varied we I'd hate to fall looks pretty varied we I'd hate to fall looks pretty varied we I'd hate to fall into any ruts case in point today is into any ruts case in point today is into any ruts case in point today is offering there's a new movie out that offering there's a new movie out that offering there's a new movie out that touches my heart in all the right places touches my heart in all the right places touches my heart in all the right places as you know it's about second world war as you know it's about second world war as you know it's about second world war naval history so it's right up my alley naval history so it's right up my alley naval history so it's right up my alley has to do with a commander of one of has to do with a commander of one of has to do with a commander of one of these escort ships guarding merchant men these escort ships guarding merchant men these escort ships guarding merchant men across the Atlantic during the Battle of across the Atlantic during the Battle of across the Atlantic during the Battle of the Atlantic and trying to keep the

the Atlantic and trying to keep the the Atlantic and trying to keep the u-boats off of them u-boats off of them u-boats off of them it's called Greyhound by the way it's on it's called Greyhound by the way it's on it's called Greyhound by the way it's on Apple TV plus stars Tom Hanks who's done Apple TV plus stars Tom Hanks who's done Apple TV plus stars Tom Hanks who's done a lot of World War two history movies or a lot of World War two history movies or a lot of World War two history movies or who's been involved in producing him or who's been involved in producing him or who's been involved in producing him or executive producing him he's a history executive producing him he's a history executive producing him he's a history fan I think and by the way I think he fan I think and by the way I think he fan I think and by the way I think he even did the screenplay of the movie even did the screenplay of the movie even did the screenplay of the movie it's great you'll like it you should it's great you'll like it you should it's great you'll like it you should check it out and in an unusual move I check it out and in an unusual move I check it out and in an unusual move I think that I hope will be part of that think that I hope will be part of that think that I hope will be part of that eclectic grab bag of offerings when you eclectic grab bag of offerings when you eclectic grab bag of offerings when you look at our archives over time you'll look at our archives over time you'll look at our archives over time you'll notice hey they notice hey they notice hey they hardcore history addendum with Tom Hanks hardcore history addendum with Tom Hanks hardcore history addendum with Tom Hanks and we did and here it is and by the way and we did and here it is and by the way and we did and here it is and by the way if you don't know who Tom Hanks is um if you don't know who Tom Hanks is um if you don't know who Tom Hanks is um well I don't know where you've been well I don't know where you've been well I don't know where you've been hiding but maybe Google that in any case hiding but maybe Google that in any case hiding but maybe Google that in any case ladies and gentlemen Tom Hanks mr. Hanks ladies and gentlemen Tom Hanks mr. Hanks ladies and gentlemen Tom Hanks mr. Hanks can you hear me okay this is Dan I can can you hear me okay this is Dan I can can you hear me okay this is Dan I can indeed Dan you can call me Tom and it is indeed Dan you can call me Tom and it is indeed Dan you can call me Tom and it is a thrill to hear your voice on something a thrill to hear your voice on something a thrill to hear your voice on something other than one of the many podcasts you other than one of the many podcasts you other than one of the many podcasts you you sir are as big as Bruce Springsteen you sir are as big as Bruce Springsteen you sir are as big as Bruce Springsteen in our house I'm not quite sure how to in our house I'm not quite sure how to in our house I'm not quite sure how to react to that well the man who's been react to that well the man who's been react to that well the man who's been watching since bosom buddy did a the we watching since bosom buddy did a the we watching since bosom buddy did a the we were just we just drove from Los Angeles were just we just drove from Los Angeles were just we just drove from Los Angeles myself and two of my kids we drove from myself and two of my kids we drove from myself and two of my kids we drove from Los Angeles to Twin Falls Idaho during Los Angeles to Twin Falls Idaho during Los Angeles to Twin Falls Idaho during which we listened to the entirety of

which we listened to the entirety of which we listened to the entirety of ghosts of the host front which was just ghosts of the host front which was just ghosts of the host front which was just one of oh my lord they I've learned so one of oh my lord they I've learned so one of oh my lord they I've learned so much from you and have been in your much from you and have been in your much from you and have been in your Android thrilled by you for a million Android thrilled by you for a million Android thrilled by you for a million hours so thank you for your passion and hours so thank you for your passion and hours so thank you for your passion and thank you for your output and it's a thank you for your output and it's a thank you for your output and it's a pleasure as a pleasure to be speaking to pleasure as a pleasure to be speaking to pleasure as a pleasure to be speaking to you now you know as a guy who remembers you now you know as a guy who remembers you now you know as a guy who remembers pulling out my hair at like 25 going pulling out my hair at like 25 going pulling out my hair at like 25 going what the hell are you doing with your what the hell are you doing with your what the hell are you doing with your career at this point to hear you say career at this point to hear you say career at this point to hear you say he's saying that is wonderful I'm I'm he's saying that is wonderful I'm I'm he's saying that is wonderful I'm I'm sure you know cuz I was doing my sure you know cuz I was doing my sure you know cuz I was doing my research let me let me start with this research let me let me start with this research let me let me start with this um as a guy who would have thought of um as a guy who would have thought of um as a guy who would have thought of you as the great comic genius coming up you as the great comic genius coming up you as the great comic genius coming up during the era when I was growing up if during the era when I was growing up if during the era when I was growing up if you had told me back in 1980 that you you had told me back in 1980 that you you had told me back in 1980 that you were going to be one of the great were going to be one of the great were going to be one of the great dramatic actors of our time and if you dramatic actors of our time and if you dramatic actors of our time and if you were going to have an IMDB page that were going to have an IMDB page that were going to have an IMDB page that looked like you were an overachiever looked like you were an overachiever looked like you were an overachiever with some sort of some sort of with some sort of some sort of with some sort of some sort of inefficiency a attitude go I mean I look inefficiency a attitude go I mean I look inefficiency a attitude go I mean I look at what you've been doing and you don't at what you've been doing and you don't at what you've been doing and you don't look like you've lived long enough to do look like you've lived long enough to do look like you've lived long enough to do all those things I want to ask you all those things I want to ask you all those things I want to ask you someday what the hell an executive someday what the hell an executive someday what the hell an executive producer does because you've been you've producer does because you've been you've producer does because you've been you've been an executive you tell me I can been an executive you tell me I can been an executive you tell me I can answer that yeah yeah okay there is a answer that yeah yeah okay there is a answer that yeah yeah okay there is a there's a big there's a distinctive there's a big there's a distinctive there's a big there's a distinctive difference difference difference an executive producer on a motion an executive producer on a motion an executive producer on a motion picture which is literally a powerless picture which is literally a powerless picture which is literally a powerless title that doesn't even require your title that doesn't even require your title that doesn't even require your presence to be an executive producer on presence to be an executive producer on presence to be an executive producer on a television series in which you get to

a television series in which you get to a television series in which you get to impact the final product as much as you impact the final product as much as you impact the final product as much as you wish to you can get involved in the wish to you can get involved in the wish to you can get involved in the writing you can get involved in the writing you can get involved in the writing you can get involved in the casting in the shooting you get involved casting in the shooting you get involved casting in the shooting you get involved in the editing you actually can run as in the editing you actually can run as in the editing you actually can run as long as you're the executive producer of long as you're the executive producer of long as you're the executive producer of a TV series anything on television TV a TV series anything on television TV a TV series anything on television TV miniseries series you you get to run the miniseries series you you get to run the miniseries series you you get to run the quality assurance of that of that show quality assurance of that of that show quality assurance of that of that show you are you are literally what you are you are you are literally what you are you are you are literally what you are probably the you get to be the big boss probably the you get to be the big boss probably the you get to be the big boss man if you decide to do so man if you decide to do so man if you decide to do so meaning that you know you can if you meaning that you know you can if you meaning that you know you can if you think something is running off the rails think something is running off the rails think something is running off the rails you go in and put it back on or if you go in and put it back on or if you go in and put it back on or if there's something running incredibly there's something running incredibly there's something running incredibly smoothly you just call up and tell smoothly you just call up and tell smoothly you just call up and tell everybody they're doing a slam-bang job everybody they're doing a slam-bang job everybody they're doing a slam-bang job and keep an eye on it so two very and keep an eye on it so two very and keep an eye on it so two very different things so the thing that I different things so the thing that I different things so the thing that I have been executive producer on on have been executive producer on on have been executive producer on on television television television particularly the miniseries I've had particularly the miniseries I've had particularly the miniseries I've had I've had I've had a hand in the way I I've had I've had a hand in the way I I've had I've had a hand in the way I put it is assuring we're literally put it is assuring we're literally put it is assuring we're literally running to Quality Assurance opposed on running to Quality Assurance opposed on running to Quality Assurance opposed on motion pictures it doesn't mean anything motion pictures it doesn't mean anything motion pictures it doesn't mean anything well let's talk about your choices then well let's talk about your choices then well let's talk about your choices then because like I said as a guy who thought because like I said as a guy who thought because like I said as a guy who thought you were gonna be this great comic you were gonna be this great comic you were gonna be this great comic leader of a movement basically in our leader of a movement basically in our leader of a movement basically in our time period I thought I thought it was a time period I thought I thought it was a time period I thought I thought it was a brand-new kind of comedy to watch you brand-new kind of comedy to watch you brand-new kind of comedy to watch you choose the kind of topics that I would choose the kind of topics that I would choose the kind of topics that I would choose for a history show you know we choose for a history show you know we choose for a history show you know we made this show originally with history made this show originally with history made this show originally with history fans in mind I feel like a history fan fans in mind I feel like a history fan fans in mind I feel like a history fan can can recognize one of his own you are

can can recognize one of his own you are can can recognize one of his own you are a true fan of history aren't you I mean a true fan of history aren't you I mean a true fan of history aren't you I mean in your own private time and your own in your own private time and your own in your own private time and your own choice of reading materials tell me a choice of reading materials tell me a choice of reading materials tell me a little about what Tom reads a home I little about what Tom reads a home I little about what Tom reads a home I I read history for pleasure now that I read history for pleasure now that I read history for pleasure now that being said I'm not I'm not a scholarly being said I'm not I'm not a scholarly being said I'm not I'm not a scholarly reader I don't I don't read tomes reader I don't I don't read tomes reader I don't I don't read tomes I I have a confession to make I've never I I have a confession to make I've never I I have a confession to make I've never been able to make it too deep into the been able to make it too deep into the been able to make it too deep into the rise and fall of the Third Reich just rise and fall of the Third Reich just rise and fall of the Third Reich just because the numbers because the numbers because the numbers the math start driving me nuts I I don't the math start driving me nuts I I don't the math start driving me nuts I I don't think I need to invest in the wheat think I need to invest in the wheat think I need to invest in the wheat productions from Saxony during it it productions from Saxony during it it productions from Saxony during it it ends up kind of like burying me when I ends up kind of like burying me when I ends up kind of like burying me when I started reading history I ended up started reading history I ended up started reading history I ended up reading historical novels like Mila 18 reading historical novels like Mila 18 reading historical novels like Mila 18 or Armageddon things by Leon URIs that or Armageddon things by Leon URIs that or Armageddon things by Leon URIs that were you know turgid melodrama in a lot were you know turgid melodrama in a lot were you know turgid melodrama in a lot of ways but also ripped right out of the of ways but also ripped right out of the of ways but also ripped right out of the history books and so I ended up finding history books and so I ended up finding history books and so I ended up finding finding out and being enthralled by eras finding out and being enthralled by eras finding out and being enthralled by eras and moments and periods of history I you and moments and periods of history I you and moments and periods of history I you know I read a lot of Don Miller's work know I read a lot of Don Miller's work know I read a lot of Don Miller's work the building of the Supreme City for the building of the Supreme City for the building of the Supreme City for example which is about architecture in example which is about architecture in example which is about architecture in New York I have read an awful lot of an New York I have read an awful lot of an New York I have read an awful lot of an awful lot of world war ii stuff i read awful lot of world war ii stuff i read awful lot of world war ii stuff i read an awful lot about communism created an awful lot about communism created an awful lot about communism created awful lot about East Germany and I'm awful lot about East Germany and I'm awful lot about East Germany and I'm currently I'm going to tell you this currently I'm going to tell you this currently I'm going to tell you this I've currently picked up finally I've I've currently picked up finally I've I've currently picked up finally I've had a copy of it for a long time but

had a copy of it for a long time but had a copy of it for a long time but Howard Zinn's a people's history of the Howard Zinn's a people's history of the Howard Zinn's a people's history of the United States of America because as a United States of America because as a United States of America because as a guy who has been reading history for guy who has been reading history for guy who has been reading history for pleasure and enlightenment and pleasure and enlightenment and pleasure and enlightenment and entertainment entertainment entertainment I'm 64 I've been doing I've been reading I'm 64 I've been doing I've been reading I'm 64 I've been doing I've been reading and like that really since I was like 13 and like that really since I was like 13 and like that really since I was like 13 14 years old when I started reading for 14 years old when I started reading for 14 years old when I started reading for pleasure I was reading history I was not pleasure I was reading history I was not pleasure I was reading history I was not aware Dan of the Tulsa black Wall Street aware Dan of the Tulsa black Wall Street aware Dan of the Tulsa black Wall Street destruction in 1921 oh yeah okay yeah destruction in 1921 oh yeah okay yeah destruction in 1921 oh yeah okay yeah yeah I had never been taught that in yeah I had never been taught that in yeah I had never been taught that in American history I had never heard about American history I had never heard about American history I had never heard about it I literally learned of it just last it I literally learned of it just last it I literally learned of it just last May in an article in the New York Times May in an article in the New York Times May in an article in the New York Times and I thought this is a huge gap this is and I thought this is a huge gap this is and I thought this is a huge gap this is a this is a massive with a Miss of a this is a massive with a Miss of a this is a massive with a Miss of something that would have altered my something that would have altered my something that would have altered my conscious or something let me go back conscious or something let me go back conscious or something let me go back just a little bit farther when we when just a little bit farther when we when just a little bit farther when we when we took on doing David McCullough's John we took on doing David McCullough's John we took on doing David McCullough's John Adams Adams Adams yes for HBO Graham Yost who I'd worked yes for HBO Graham Yost who I'd worked yes for HBO Graham Yost who I'd worked with on to two previous miniseries he with on to two previous miniseries he with on to two previous miniseries he called up is it look I can't do this but called up is it look I can't do this but called up is it look I can't do this but you might want to take a look at this you might want to take a look at this you might want to take a look at this because I think there's a miniseries in because I think there's a miniseries in because I think there's a miniseries in this really John Adams with what the Tea this really John Adams with what the Tea this really John Adams with what the Tea Party and the three corner hats and the

Party and the three corner hats and the Party and the three corner hats and the buckles on their shoes how do we seen buckles on their shoes how do we seen buckles on their shoes how do we seen this stuff before it had just read it this stuff before it had just read it this stuff before it had just read it just read it just reads it said okay so just read it just reads it said okay so just read it just reads it said okay so I read it when I got up to the to the I read it when I got up to the to the I read it when I got up to the to the place where as as an attorney and the place where as as an attorney and the place where as as an attorney and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts Commonwealth of Massachusetts Commonwealth of Massachusetts John Adams took on the case of defending John Adams took on the case of defending John Adams took on the case of defending the British soldiers that fired on the the British soldiers that fired on the the British soldiers that fired on the mob that became known as the Boston mob that became known as the Boston mob that became known as the Boston Massacre and nobody wanted that gig by Massacre and nobody wanted that gig by Massacre and nobody wanted that gig by the way nobody wanted to gig nobody the way nobody wanted to gig nobody the way nobody wanted to gig nobody wanted to take it wanted to take it wanted to take it it was unpopular and everybody hated the it was unpopular and everybody hated the it was unpopular and everybody hated the lobster backs lobster backs lobster backs I love that term right John Adams said I love that term right John Adams said I love that term right John Adams said if we let the MOG rule we're doomed that if we let the MOG rule we're doomed that if we let the MOG rule we're doomed that is not the bet that that is the very is not the bet that that is the very is not the bet that that is the very rule of law is based on certain respects rule of law is based on certain respects rule of law is based on certain respects for each other among other for authority for each other among other for authority for each other among other for authority but but it is the opposite of letting a but but it is the opposite of letting a but but it is the opposite of letting a mob decide what goes on so he takes on mob decide what goes on so he takes on mob decide what goes on so he takes on that case I'm gonna say there's a dozen that case I'm gonna say there's a dozen that case I'm gonna say there's a dozen lots of British soldiers who just wanna lots of British soldiers who just wanna lots of British soldiers who just wanna excuse me they just want to go they just excuse me they just want to go they just excuse me they just want to go they just they just want to go home this cold they just want to go home this cold they just want to go home this cold miserable country where everybody hates miserable country where everybody hates miserable country where everybody hates them can we please go can't we please go them can we please go can't we please go them can we please go can't we please go home home home not only does John Adams defend them but not only does John Adams defend them but not only does John Adams defend them but he he wins their acquittal by way of the he he wins their acquittal by way of the he he wins their acquittal by way of the rule of law if I had been told somewhere

rule of law if I had been told somewhere rule of law if I had been told somewhere I think the first time I American I think the first time I American I think the first time I American history was a subject that we had to history was a subject that we had to history was a subject that we had to take a requirement I believe I was 10 in take a requirement I believe I was 10 in take a requirement I believe I was 10 in fifth grade and then again in eighth fifth grade and then again in eighth fifth grade and then again in eighth grade at any other time and the course grade at any other time and the course grade at any other time and the course between between then and now if I had between between then and now if I had between between then and now if I had been told the future second President of been told the future second President of been told the future second President of the United States the future first the United States the future first the United States the future first President of the United States one of President of the United States one of President of the United States one of the authors of the deck the authors of the deck the authors of the deck raishin of Independence had defended raishin of Independence had defended raishin of Independence had defended British soldiers for firing upon moneth British soldiers for firing upon moneth British soldiers for firing upon moneth for being response for the Boston for being response for the Boston for being response for the Boston Massacre and proved there approved the Massacre and proved there approved the Massacre and proved there approved the the circumstances that led to their the circumstances that led to their the circumstances that led to their acquittal and being sent home my head acquittal and being sent home my head acquittal and being sent home my head would have exploded it would have been would have exploded it would have been would have exploded it would have been it would have been it would have been an it would have been it would have been an it would have been it would have been an example dezirae ssin of the very very example dezirae ssin of the very very example dezirae ssin of the very very reason why certain things are written reason why certain things are written reason why certain things are written down on parchment and accepted as these down on parchment and accepted as these down on parchment and accepted as these truths that we hold to be self-evident truths that we hold to be self-evident truths that we hold to be self-evident that the the workings of We the People that the the workings of We the People that the the workings of We the People in order to make a more perfect union in order to make a more perfect union in order to make a more perfect union it would have met it would have been it would have met it would have been it would have met it would have been fluence me in a huge way and perhaps it fluence me in a huge way and perhaps it fluence me in a huge way and perhaps it would have been pissed off hey wait a would have been pissed off hey wait a would have been pissed off hey wait a minute minute minute British were they bad guys right how British were they bad guys right how British were they bad guys right how come we're how come we're getting there come we're how come we're getting there come we're how come we're getting there why would we celebrate them getting why would we celebrate them getting why would we celebrate them getting because it's a rule of law all right because it's a rule of law all right because it's a rule of law all right take two well they did talk about their take two well they did talk about their take two well they did talk about their separate take two the representative the separate take two the representative the separate take two the representative the United States of America first United States of America first United States of America first ambassador to the court of st. James a ambassador to the court of st. James a ambassador to the court of st. James a place where if things had been different place where if things had been different place where if things had been different he would have been brought in changed he would have been brought in changed he would have been brought in changed and hung by the king of England he now

and hung by the king of England he now and hung by the king of England he now has to John Adams future vice president has to John Adams future vice president has to John Adams future vice president United States co-author of the United States co-author of the United States co-author of the Declaration father of another US Declaration father of another US Declaration father of another US president father of another US president president father of another US president president father of another US president both of them one termers thank you very both of them one termers thank you very both of them one termers thank you very much much much Hey no because because we are no longer Hey no because because we are no longer Hey no because because we are no longer in English colony and protected not only in English colony and protected not only in English colony and protected not only by the crown but also by the Crown's in by the crown but also by the Crown's in by the crown but also by the Crown's in empirical Navy the big Empire of the empirical Navy the big Empire of the empirical Navy the big Empire of the Navy America now has to go and they Navy America now has to go and they Navy America now has to go and they essentially negotiate all the deals that essentially negotiate all the deals that essentially negotiate all the deals that were already made by England because now were already made by England because now were already made by England because now they're their own country so one of the they're their own country so one of the they're their own country so one of the things he has to do is go talk to the things he has to do is go talk to the things he has to do is go talk to the Barbary pirates who have enslaved American sailors that they take it on American sailors that they take it on issue in North Africa not yes in North issue in North Africa not yes in North issue in North Africa not yes in North Africa that's why they did things they Africa that's why they did things they Africa that's why they did things they kidnapped a bunch of people that got kidnapped a bunch of people that got kidnapped a bunch of people that got tribute and that's how they make money tribute and that's how they make money tribute and that's how they make money the Delvin hostages they had built-in the Delvin hostages they had built-in the Delvin hostages they had built-in kidnapping and the john adams goes and kidnapping and the john adams goes and kidnapping and the john adams goes and speaks to the Emir of of Moorish North speaks to the Emir of of Moorish North speaks to the Emir of of Moorish North Africa Africa Africa and it says and he sizes it look we're a and it says and he sizes it look we're a and it says and he sizes it look we're a poor country your your gracious is we poor country your your gracious is we poor country your your gracious is we can't afford to keep buying our sailors can't afford to keep buying our sailors can't afford to keep buying our sailors out of your your kidnapping bondage so out of your your kidnapping bondage so out of your your kidnapping bondage so you you're going to have to we got to you you're going to have to we got to you you're going to have to we got to work something out here and the Emir work something out here and the Emir work something out here and the Emir says there's nothing to work out here says there's nothing to work out here says there's nothing to work out here you pay us the money and Jonathan says you pay us the money and Jonathan says you pay us the money and Jonathan says we as I said once again we cannot afford

we as I said once again we cannot afford we as I said once again we cannot afford it and secondly we do not want to get it and secondly we do not want to get it and secondly we do not want to get into a fight with you into a fight with you into a fight with you and the Emir of the Barbary pirate says and the Emir of the Barbary pirate says and the Emir of the Barbary pirate says oh listen dude you do not want to get oh listen dude you do not want to get oh listen dude you do not want to get into a fight with us because we don't into a fight with us because we don't into a fight with us because we don't play by your rules play by your rules play by your rules we don't take prisoners we don't we don't take prisoners we don't we don't take prisoners we don't negotiate we don't surrender we don't negotiate we don't surrender we don't negotiate we don't surrender we don't sign a piece of paper that says we're sign a piece of paper that says we're sign a piece of paper that says we're done let's stop the fighting you win we done let's stop the fighting you win we done let's stop the fighting you win we we don't do that we'll just keep killing we don't do that we'll just keep killing we don't do that we'll just keep killing you and terrorizing you till the cows you and terrorizing you till the cows you and terrorizing you till the cows come home and the end result of course come home and the end result of course come home and the end result of course is from the halls of Montezuma to the is from the halls of Montezuma to the is from the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli yeah they did have to shores of Tripoli yeah they did have to shores of Tripoli yeah they did have to mix it up those two boys to the lessons mix it up those two boys to the lessons mix it up those two boys to the lessons alone by the way you know what they were alone by the way you know what they were alone by the way you know what they were you know what they were enjoying at the you know what they were enjoying at the you know what they were enjoying at the time of that conversation between the time of that conversation between the time of that conversation between the ambassador of the United States and the ambassador of the United States and the ambassador of the United States and the Emir of Tunisia the Boers I don't do it Emir of Tunisia the Boers I don't do it Emir of Tunisia the Boers I don't do it they were having a nice cup of coffee they were having a nice cup of coffee they were having a nice cup of coffee they were enjoy they were enjoying them they were enjoy they were enjoying them they were enjoy they were enjoying them fine tobacco products from the state of fine tobacco products from the state of fine tobacco products from the state of Virginia they were enjoying the bounty Virginia they were enjoying the bounty Virginia they were enjoying the bounty of the New World of the New World of the New World right there between the two of them over right there between the two of them over right there between the two of them over that brand of branded diplomacy so that brand of branded diplomacy so that brand of branded diplomacy so that's the you know you read that kind that's the you know you read that kind that's the you know you read that kind of stuff and everything comes alive and of stuff and everything comes alive and of stuff and everything comes alive and it has absolutely nothing to do with the it has absolutely nothing to do with the it has absolutely nothing to do with the the the bushels of wheat that was pulled the the bushels of wheat that was pulled the the bushels of wheat that was pulled out of Saxony during the Weimar Republic out of Saxony during the Weimar Republic out of Saxony during the Weimar Republic it's got some other stuff no but I think it's got some other stuff no but I think it's got some other stuff no but I think what you're saying is and and don't let what you're saying is and and don't let what you're saying is and and don't let me put words in your mouth but I think me put words in your mouth but I think me put words in your mouth but I think it applies to all of us who are fans of it applies to all of us who are fans of it applies to all of us who are fans of history is that you know you grow up

history is that you know you grow up history is that you know you grow up with a two-dimensional version of with a two-dimensional version of with a two-dimensional version of history especially with our heroes we history especially with our heroes we history especially with our heroes we shrink them into into cardboard cutouts shrink them into into cardboard cutouts shrink them into into cardboard cutouts we sand off all the rough edges and all we sand off all the rough edges and all we sand off all the rough edges and all the unpalatable stuff and turn them into the unpalatable stuff and turn them into the unpalatable stuff and turn them into symbols and then when you are able like symbols and then when you are able like symbols and then when you are able like adding water to restore them again to adding water to restore them again to adding water to restore them again to their three-dimensional Hume their three-dimensional Hume their three-dimensional Hume qualities they become so much more qualities they become so much more qualities they become so much more relatable and interesting and the the relatable and interesting and the the relatable and interesting and the the fact that and you know this is the most fact that and you know this is the most fact that and you know this is the most obvious part that's still the part that obvious part that's still the part that obvious part that's still the part that you have to remember the fact that they you have to remember the fact that they you have to remember the fact that they don't know how it's gonna turn out is oh don't know how it's gonna turn out is oh don't know how it's gonna turn out is oh yeah you know and the fact for us it's yeah you know and the fact for us it's yeah you know and the fact for us it's such a safe thing we know there's a such a safe thing we know there's a such a safe thing we know there's a happy ending we know he becomes John happy ending we know he becomes John happy ending we know he becomes John Adams at the end of this story Adams at the end of this story Adams at the end of this story story would have ended differently had story would have ended differently had story would have ended differently had he been taken prisoner you know and and he been taken prisoner you know and and he been taken prisoner you know and and beheaded by the by the head of the beheaded by the by the head of the beheaded by the by the head of the Barbary pirates I mean and he doesn't Barbary pirates I mean and he doesn't Barbary pirates I mean and he doesn't know that's not going to happen know that's not going to happen know that's not going to happen um so for me I think you know it's um um so for me I think you know it's um um so for me I think you know it's um there's a great line I wrote it down and there's a great line I wrote it down and there's a great line I wrote it down and I every time I quote anything on the I every time I quote anything on the I every time I quote anything on the program I have to be careful because program I have to be careful because program I have to be careful because someone will say something like that's someone will say something like that's someone will say something like that's actually not a real quote so I had to actually not a real quote so I had to actually not a real quote so I had to but but I wrote it down and it's a Latin but but I wrote it down and it's a Latin but but I wrote it down and it's a Latin line from from ancient times it says it line from from ancient times it says it line from from ancient times it says it will give you pleasure to look back on will give you pleasure to look back on will give you pleasure to look back on this scene of suffering and it's a this scene of suffering and it's a this scene of suffering and it's a reminder to me that it would be very reminder to me that it would be very reminder to me that it would be very interesting to go back and talk to interesting to go back and talk to interesting to go back and talk to somebody say from the Second World War somebody say from the Second World War somebody say from the Second World War say a refugee and go to them and say say a refugee and go to them and say say a refugee and go to them and say listen you have no idea how many tickets listen you have no idea how many tickets listen you have no idea how many tickets we're gonna be able to sell to the movie we're gonna be able to sell to the movie we're gonna be able to sell to the movie about the experiences you're going about the experiences you're going about the experiences you're going through right now you know I mean I through right now you know I mean I through right now you know I mean I think there's almost an obscene aspect think there's almost an obscene aspect think there's almost an obscene aspect to that right we're going to be to that right we're going to be to that right we're going to be entertained by the most traumatic entertained by the most traumatic entertained by the most traumatic terrible thing you've ever gone through terrible thing you've ever gone through terrible thing you've ever gone through and the only thing that makes me feel and the only thing that makes me feel and the only thing that makes me feel like we can get away with it is that like we can get away with it is that like we can get away with it is that those people themselves were fascinated

those people themselves were fascinated those people themselves were fascinated by stories from earlier times that were by stories from earlier times that were by stories from earlier times that were based of the same sorts of components based of the same sorts of components based of the same sorts of components you know humans dealing with struggle you know humans dealing with struggle you know humans dealing with struggle and overcoming the many things that were and overcoming the many things that were and overcoming the many things that were thrown that way not knowing how it's thrown that way not knowing how it's thrown that way not knowing how it's going to turn out and it is exactly going to turn out and it is exactly going to turn out and it is exactly rooted in today's behavior history shows rooted in today's behavior history shows rooted in today's behavior history shows us the human condition as as we can us the human condition as as we can us the human condition as as we can observe it right now across the street observe it right now across the street observe it right now across the street the great novelist Allen first who I lie the great novelist Allen first who I lie the great novelist Allen first who I lie bred he writes essentially World War 2 bred he writes essentially World War 2 bred he writes essentially World War 2 era espionage books fascinating great era espionage books fascinating great era espionage books fascinating great stuff novels stuff novels stuff novels okay but set firmly rooted in real okay but set firmly rooted in real okay but set firmly rooted in real places real gates real times real real places real gates real times real real places real gates real times real real upheaval all of his books I'm saying all upheaval all of his books I'm saying all upheaval all of his books I'm saying all I may not be 100 but the the ones that I may not be 100 but the the ones that I may not be 100 but the the ones that I've read it it they're all set prior to I've read it it they're all set prior to I've read it it they're all set prior to the Battle of Stalingrad why I heard him the Battle of Stalingrad why I heard him the Battle of Stalingrad why I heard him say this on the radio and it made me say this on the radio and it made me say this on the radio and it made me jump up and down in my car which I don't jump up and down in my car which I don't jump up and down in my car which I don't men but he said why are all your a liar men but he said why are all your a liar men but he said why are all your a liar all your books set before the Battle of all your books set before the Battle of all your books set before the Battle of Stalingrad and he said until the Nazis Stalingrad and he said until the Nazis Stalingrad and he said until the Nazis gave up the ghost in Stalingrad and this gave up the ghost in Stalingrad and this gave up the ghost in Stalingrad and this is why your your ghost of the ghost is why your your ghost of the ghost is why your your ghost of the ghost front really kicked my butt in all the front really kicked my butt in all the front really kicked my butt in all the 114 hours of you talk that's one of the 114 hours of you talk that's one of the 114 hours of you talk that's one of the shorter series to imagine you had killed shorter series to imagine you had killed shorter series to imagine you had killed it until the Nazis rich began their

it until the Nazis rich began their it until the Nazis rich began their retreat and and were captured there at retreat and and were captured there at retreat and and were captured there at Stalingrad no one had any idea that they Stalingrad no one had any idea that they Stalingrad no one had any idea that they were beatable they had they had taken were beatable they had they had taken were beatable they had they had taken over their half of the world with over their half of the world with over their half of the world with relative ease and with constant terror relative ease and with constant terror relative ease and with constant terror so you tell me so you tell me so you tell me Stalingrad they retreated from Stalingrad they retreated from Stalingrad they retreated from Stalingrad in 1942 43 I think by the end Stalingrad in 1942 43 I think by the end Stalingrad in 1942 43 I think by the end of it yeah but 42 it'll happen yeah of it yeah but 42 it'll happen yeah of it yeah but 42 it'll happen yeah absolutely all right okay so not until absolutely all right okay so not until absolutely all right okay so not until 1943 so from September of 1939 and 1943 so from September of 1939 and 1943 so from September of 1939 and actually prior to that until that moment actually prior to that until that moment actually prior to that until that moment the Nazi war machine was invincible the Nazi war machine was invincible the Nazi war machine was invincible so until until you get a sense of hey so until until you get a sense of hey so until until you get a sense of hey wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute they've lost there and I'm looking at they've lost there and I'm looking at they've lost there and I'm looking at the I'm looking at the map and I'm the I'm looking at the map and I'm the I'm looking at the map and I'm looking the way things are going holy looking the way things are going holy looking the way things are going holy cow they could actually lose this thing cow they could actually lose this thing cow they could actually lose this thing and they are defeatable as a matter of and they are defeatable as a matter of and they are defeatable as a matter of fact they're they're they're losing fact they're they're they're losing fact they're they're they're losing ground like crazy you know what it might ground like crazy you know what it might ground like crazy you know what it might only be a matter of time until Nazi only be a matter of time until Nazi only be a matter of time until Nazi Germany has wiped off the map destroyed Germany has wiped off the map destroyed Germany has wiped off the map destroyed Wow Wow Wow there's actually hope until that moment there's actually hope until that moment there's actually hope until that moment came a human being particularly in that came a human being particularly in that came a human being particularly in that sphere of the world had three options of sphere of the world had three options of sphere of the world had three options of how to conduct their lives they could how to conduct their lives they could how to conduct their lives they could either be a hero they could be a villain either be a hero they could be a villain either be a hero they could be a villain or they could be a coward a bystander or they could be a coward a bystander or they could be a coward a bystander and I always whenever I'm in the in the

and I always whenever I'm in the in the and I always whenever I'm in the in the midst of any of these sagas in any of midst of any of these sagas in any of midst of any of these sagas in any of the mitts of these journeys of history the mitts of these journeys of history the mitts of these journeys of history and enlightenment I always ask myself and enlightenment I always ask myself and enlightenment I always ask myself well would I be hero villain coward well would I be hero villain coward well would I be hero villain coward Wow I'm not so sure of look I have Wow I'm not so sure of look I have Wow I'm not so sure of look I have hubris but I'm not so sure of it the end hubris but I'm not so sure of it the end hubris but I'm not so sure of it the end of their that push comes to shove am I of their that push comes to shove am I of their that push comes to shove am I going to say hey look these are the going to say hey look these are the going to say hey look these are the rules now guys they took over we got a rules now guys they took over we got a rules now guys they took over we got a you know do we become a member of the you know do we become a member of the you know do we become a member of the Vichy French or we do one of the we Vichy French or we do one of the we Vichy French or we do one of the we become one of those kids that suddenly become one of those kids that suddenly become one of those kids that suddenly wakes up one day the French Republic is wakes up one day the French Republic is wakes up one day the French Republic is collapsed and you have either an option collapsed and you have either an option collapsed and you have either an option to stay or run down to the beach get in to stay or run down to the beach get in to stay or run down to the beach get in a rowboat and and cross the English a rowboat and and cross the English a rowboat and and cross the English Channel and keep the fight going on that Channel and keep the fight going on that Channel and keep the fight going on that we all face moments like that every we all face moments like that every we all face moments like that every single day of our lives we we have some single day of our lives we we have some single day of our lives we we have some you know maybe take into a ridiculous you know maybe take into a ridiculous you know maybe take into a ridiculous extreme or maybe not to an extreme at extreme or maybe not to an extreme at extreme or maybe not to an extreme at all of that choice between what our all of that choice between what our all of that choice between what our actions are going to going to be and actions are going to going to be and actions are going to going to be and what how we're going to view it in years what how we're going to view it in years what how we're going to view it in years to come you know someday we'll be all to come you know someday we'll be all to come you know someday we'll be all laugh about this I'm not then it could laugh about this I'm not then it could laugh about this I'm not then it could be that someday we never talk about any be that someday we never talk about any be that someday we never talk about any of this because we don't want the of this because we don't want the of this because we don't want the secrets to come or it's too painful a secrets to come or it's too painful a secrets to come or it's too painful a memory you know I used to say that when memory you know I used to say that when memory you know I used to say that when I talk to veterans you can almost tell I talk to veterans you can almost tell I talk to veterans you can almost tell how much combat in action they saw by how much combat in action they saw by how much combat in action they saw by how unwilling they are to get into it how unwilling they are to get into it how unwilling they are to get into it with you I wonder how much our with you I wonder how much our with you I wonder how much our fascination with these sorts of fascination with these sorts of fascination with these sorts of incidences would be different had we incidences would be different had we incidences would be different had we actually experienced the incidences actually experienced the incidences actually experienced the incidences themselves I mean if Tom Hanks had themselves I mean if Tom Hanks had themselves I mean if Tom Hanks had actually fought in the Second World War

actually fought in the Second World War actually fought in the Second World War as you have in in more than one film how as you have in in more than one film how as you have in in more than one film how different then is Tom Hanks's portrait different then is Tom Hanks's portrait different then is Tom Hanks's portrait in other words how much is Tom Hanks in other words how much is Tom Hanks in other words how much is Tom Hanks exploring a subject that he's interested exploring a subject that he's interested exploring a subject that he's interested in because there is no answer right we in because there is no answer right we in because there is no answer right we don't know how Tom behaves in the second don't know how Tom behaves in the second don't know how Tom behaves in the second world war versus and and I think you world war versus and and I think you world war versus and and I think you know I was trying to think you know know I was trying to think you know know I was trying to think you know ahead of time it's funny not to change ahead of time it's funny not to change ahead of time it's funny not to change the subject at all but I was going the subject at all but I was going the subject at all but I was going trying to do my research for this trying to do my research for this trying to do my research for this program and I went and saw interviews program and I went and saw interviews program and I went and saw interviews with you that you've done in the past with you that you've done in the past with you that you've done in the past where you talked about the celebrity where you talked about the celebrity where you talked about the celebrity mule train and all that all the mule train and all that all the mule train and all that all the questions you normally get asked and so questions you normally get asked and so questions you normally get asked and so I wrote them all down and thought it I wrote them all down and thought it I wrote them all down and thought it would be funny to just go through every would be funny to just go through every would be funny to just go through every one of those questions but but it's one of those questions but but it's one of those questions but but it's funny because how many of them get into funny because how many of them get into funny because how many of them get into this thing about what's so interesting this thing about what's so interesting this thing about what's so interesting about this topic that you continue about this topic that you continue about this topic that you continue because people ask me my wife says to me because people ask me my wife says to me because people ask me my wife says to me all the time you can't even I have to all the time you can't even I have to all the time you can't even I have to walk out of the there was the Jeffrey walk out of the there was the Jeffrey walk out of the there was the Jeffrey Epstein series was on the other day on Epstein series was on the other day on Epstein series was on the other day on Netflix or whatever and she's watching Netflix or whatever and she's watching Netflix or whatever and she's watching and I have to and I have to and I have to out of the room every two seconds cuz I out of the room every two seconds cuz I out of the room every two seconds cuz I can't handle what they're talking about can't handle what they're talking about can't handle what they're talking about and she says how is a guy who talks and she says how is a guy who talks and she says how is a guy who talks about war all day long but you can't you about war all day long but you can't you about war all day long but you can't you can't you can't stay in the room during can't you can't stay in the room during can't you can't stay in the room during this I said I don't know what the this I said I don't know what the this I said I don't know what the difference is but I think it has difference is but I think it has difference is but I think it has something to do with unanswered something to do with unanswered something to do with unanswered questions about how we would be maybe in questions about how we would be maybe in questions about how we would be maybe in those situations you used to read about those situations you used to read about those situations you used to read about the veterans who always wondered about the veterans who always wondered about the veterans who always wondered about okay okay okay how will I behave will I be a coward how will I behave will I be a coward how will I behave will I be a coward when the bullets first start how how how when the bullets first start how how how when the bullets first start how how how will that crucible in my life be when I will that crucible in my life be when I will that crucible in my life be when I hit the beach had Tom Hanks been in hit the beach had Tom Hanks been in hit the beach had Tom Hanks been in these situations for real as many of the these situations for real as many of the these situations for real as many of the Second World War era actors were who Second World War era actors were who Second World War era actors were who then came back and had to portray you then came back and had to portray you then came back and had to portray you know the sands of Iwo Jima or whatever

know the sands of Iwo Jima or whatever know the sands of Iwo Jima or whatever how much do you think your portrayal how much do you think your portrayal how much do you think your portrayal would be different and how much would would be different and how much would would be different and how much would you be still interested in exploring you be still interested in exploring you be still interested in exploring these questions do you think it's an these questions do you think it's an these questions do you think it's an unknowable question but you know uh unknowable question but you know uh unknowable question but you know uh there's a I'll tell you a story that there's a I'll tell you a story that there's a I'll tell you a story that that which I don't know because again that which I don't know because again that which I don't know because again it's a combination of hubris and desire it's a combination of hubris and desire it's a combination of hubris and desire you know I would like to I would like to you know I would like to I would like to you know I would like to I would like to seduce everybody by saying oh I know seduce everybody by saying oh I know seduce everybody by saying oh I know exactly what I had no idea but here's exactly what I had no idea but here's exactly what I had no idea but here's here's a great story and I here's a great story and I here's a great story and I some of it is apocryphal I'm sorry to some of it is apocryphal I'm sorry to some of it is apocryphal I'm sorry to say but this is a fact my friend Ron say but this is a fact my friend Ron say but this is a fact my friend Ron Howard was was in a movie with Lee Howard was was in a movie with Lee Howard was was in a movie with Lee Marvin and there was gunplay involved Marvin and there was gunplay involved Marvin and there was gunplay involved Lee Marvin was a great guy he was he was Lee Marvin was a great guy he was he was Lee Marvin was a great guy he was he was hilarious use of gregarious he got the hilarious use of gregarious he got the hilarious use of gregarious he got the drill he knew that it was you know part drill he knew that it was you know part drill he knew that it was you know part leaning into the truth and part a racket leaning into the truth and part a racket leaning into the truth and part a racket you know the movie the movie biz but he you know the movie the movie biz but he you know the movie the movie biz but he was a great guy was a great guy was a great guy until the night gunfire scene came and until the night gunfire scene came and until the night gunfire scene came and he was not the same man perhaps because he was not the same man perhaps because he was not the same man perhaps because he had been drinking but he was not the he had been drinking but he was not the he had been drinking but he was not the same man when it came down to shooting same man when it came down to shooting same man when it came down to shooting this stuff the gunfight the muzzle this stuff the gunfight the muzzle this stuff the gunfight the muzzle flashes they bang I got you because he flashes they bang I got you because he flashes they bang I got you because he says oh you're all pretending here says oh you're all pretending here says oh you're all pretending here you're all pretending with your little you're all pretending with your little you're all pretending with your little guns now that's one story that I know guns now that's one story that I know guns now that's one story that I know for I heard that from the horse's mouth for I heard that from the horse's mouth for I heard that from the horse's mouth here's a story that I've heard and and here's a story that I've heard and and here's a story that I've heard and and happenstance and I'm just going to

happenstance and I'm just going to happenstance and I'm just going to assume that it's true all right assume that it's true all right assume that it's true all right Lee Marvin is Lee Marvin is Lee Marvin is The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson right yeah and you know he's funny and right yeah and you know he's funny and right yeah and you know he's funny and he's Lee Marvin and he's intimidating he's Lee Marvin and he's intimidating he's Lee Marvin and he's intimidating and he's all bet and he's been in The and he's all bet and he's been in The and he's all bet and he's been in The Dirty Dozen and he's been in all these Dirty Dozen and he's been in all these Dirty Dozen and he's been in all these other films to me grin won all of those other films to me grin won all of those other films to me grin won all of those he's Lee goddamn Marvin alright so he's Lee goddamn Marvin alright so he's Lee goddamn Marvin alright so Johnny mentioned something about being a Johnny mentioned something about being a Johnny mentioned something about being a hero you know hero you know hero you know somehow the word hero is mentioned somehow the word hero is mentioned somehow the word hero is mentioned Johnny Carson says well you're a hero Johnny Carson says well you're a hero Johnny Carson says well you're a hero Lee you're a war hero you served in the Lee you're a war hero you served in the Lee you're a war hero you served in the Marines and he says haha I'm not a I'm Marines and he says haha I'm not a I'm Marines and he says haha I'm not a I'm not a war hero Johnny I'm a guy who got not a war hero Johnny I'm a guy who got not a war hero Johnny I'm a guy who got shot in the ass but I will tell you who shot in the ass but I will tell you who shot in the ass but I will tell you who is a war hero I believe it was Iwo Jima is a war hero I believe it was Iwo Jima is a war hero I believe it was Iwo Jima forgive me if I'm wrong let's just say forgive me if I'm wrong let's just say forgive me if I'm wrong let's just say it's you Jima because it can stand in it's you Jima because it can stand in it's you Jima because it can stand in for Peleliu Guadalcanal Okinawa piñon for Peleliu Guadalcanal Okinawa piñon for Peleliu Guadalcanal Okinawa piñon Kwajalein it could stand in for all of Kwajalein it could stand in for all of Kwajalein it could stand in for all of those island battles in world war ii but those island battles in world war ii but those island battles in world war ii but he was a marine and he did get wounded he was a marine and he did get wounded he was a marine and he did get wounded he did get shot he got a Purple Heart he did get shot he got a Purple Heart he did get shot he got a Purple Heart etc in combat and he said I'll tell you etc in combat and he said I'll tell you etc in combat and he said I'll tell you who's a hero the beachmaster II would who's a hero the beachmaster II would who's a hero the beachmaster II would Jima was a hero that was a man who was Jima was a hero that was a man who was Jima was a hero that was a man who was unarmed and his job was a stand-up on unarmed and his job was a stand-up on unarmed and his job was a stand-up on the beach under fire from from the the beach under fire from from the the beach under fire from from the defending Japanese forces waving red defending Japanese forces waving red defending Japanese forces waving red flags in order to guide the landing flags in order to guide the landing flags in order to guide the landing craft in to their appropriate landing

craft in to their appropriate landing craft in to their appropriate landing sites so that the invasion could sites so that the invasion could sites so that the invasion could continuing their attacking my range and continuing their attacking my range and continuing their attacking my range and then going to his job as the beach then going to his job as the beach then going to his job as the beach master was to communicate with signal master was to communicate with signal master was to communicate with signal flags with semaphores to the pilots of flags with semaphores to the pilots of flags with semaphores to the pilots of these small boats all under fire so now these small boats all under fire so now these small boats all under fire so now that man was a hero and that man's name that man was a hero and that man's name that man was a hero and that man's name was Sergeant Bob keeshan do you know who was Sergeant Bob keeshan do you know who was Sergeant Bob keeshan do you know who Bob keeshan is you know Captain Kangaroo Bob keeshan is you know Captain Kangaroo Bob keeshan is you know Captain Kangaroo he was Captain Kangaroo he was Clarabel the clown on Howdy Doody he was Clarabel the clown on Howdy Doody oh my gosh that's some therapy working oh my gosh that's some therapy working oh my gosh that's some therapy working itself out after the war right there itself out after the war right there itself out after the war right there isn't it well it is it is some aspect of isn't it well it is it is some aspect of isn't it well it is it is some aspect of that generation that generation that generation says hey first of all we all signed up says hey first of all we all signed up says hey first of all we all signed up first for the duration plus six months first for the duration plus six months first for the duration plus six months there were a bajillion of us secondly there were a bajillion of us secondly there were a bajillion of us secondly all of us saw if you were in combat you all of us saw if you were in combat you all of us saw if you were in combat you all went through something you all saw all went through something you all saw all went through something you all saw something that said and thirdly there's something that said and thirdly there's something that said and thirdly there's that great there's that great line from that great there's that great line from that great there's that great line from the best years of our lives when Dana the best years of our lives when Dana the best years of our lives when Dana Andrews has been pulled down out of the Andrews has been pulled down out of the Andrews has been pulled down out of the derelict b-17 that's being demolished derelict b-17 that's being demolished derelict b-17 that's being demolished and turned into material for model homes and turned into material for model homes and turned into material for model homes and the guy says hey you get down from and the guy says hey you get down from and the guy says hey you get down from there and Dana Dana Andrews guns I was there and Dana Dana Andrews guns I was there and Dana Dana Andrews guns I was just reliving it oh yeah well when you just reliving it oh yeah well when you just reliving it oh yeah well when you fly boys are up there doing is that I fly boys are up there doing is that I fly boys are up there doing is that I was down on the ground in the tanks and

was down on the ground in the tanks and was down on the ground in the tanks and data Andrew said hey listen brother I'd data Andrew said hey listen brother I'd data Andrew said hey listen brother I'd love to hear your war stories if I have love to hear your war stories if I have love to hear your war stories if I have that if I ever have the time they all that if I ever have the time they all that if I ever have the time they all had war stories and there's word no had war stories and there's word no had war stories and there's word no different than others and those guys different than others and those guys different than others and those guys that did indeed that did indeed that did indeed you know faced it you know I don't want you know faced it you know I don't want you know faced it you know I don't want to mention any names but I I know I know to mention any names but I I know I know to mention any names but I I know I know of actors veteran actors had passed away of actors veteran actors had passed away of actors veteran actors had passed away who killed the enemy with their bare who killed the enemy with their bare who killed the enemy with their bare hands in foxholes because they had to hands in foxholes because they had to hands in foxholes because they had to keep moving how do you go through that keep moving how do you go through that keep moving how do you go through that and then come back and either tell about and then come back and either tell about and then come back and either tell about it or laugh about it or view it as some it or laugh about it or view it as some it or laugh about it or view it as some sort of anecdote that is that is from sort of anecdote that is that is from sort of anecdote that is that is from the pet is just or an entertainment the pet is just or an entertainment the pet is just or an entertainment vehicle right a crowd-pleaser an vehicle right a crowd-pleaser an vehicle right a crowd-pleaser an audience applause a prompter you know audience applause a prompter you know audience applause a prompter you know that's one of the things and I was that's one of the things and I was that's one of the things and I was having a hard time coming up with having a hard time coming up with having a hard time coming up with specific questions about your wonderful specific questions about your wonderful specific questions about your wonderful film Greyhound because I didn't want to film Greyhound because I didn't want to film Greyhound because I didn't want to give away any spoilers and everything I give away any spoilers and everything I give away any spoilers and everything I was gonna ask about sort of led to a was gonna ask about sort of led to a was gonna ask about sort of led to a spoiler I do want to say though one of spoiler I do want to say though one of spoiler I do want to say though one of the things that really grabbed ahold of the things that really grabbed ahold of the things that really grabbed ahold of me and that I got right away was because me and that I got right away was because me and that I got right away was because and you just alluded to it was there you and you just alluded to it was there you and you just alluded to it was there you know we celebrated always have the guys know we celebrated always have the guys know we celebrated always have the guys who hit the beaches at Iwo Jima and who hit the beaches at Iwo Jima and who hit the beaches at Iwo Jima and everything but but you know always in everything but but you know always in everything but but you know always in war they talked about the snake right war they talked about the snake right war they talked about the snake right the head of the snake are the combat the head of the snake are the combat the head of the snake are the combat troops the tail of the snake are all the troops the tail of the snake are all the troops the tail of the snake are all the people that it takes to keep the combat people that it takes to keep the combat people that it takes to keep the combat troops you know with bullets and food troops you know with bullets and food troops you know with bullets and food and all the things that they need to do and all the things that they need to do and all the things that they need to do their jobs and the more modern the their jobs and the more modern the their jobs and the more modern the warfare the longer the tail of the snake warfare the longer the tail of the snake warfare the longer the tail of the snake gets the number of PEEP

gets the number of PEEP gets the number of PEEP that it took to get the Second World War that it took to get the Second World War that it took to get the Second World War soldiers to where they could fight and soldiers to where they could fight and soldiers to where they could fight and be the head of the snake you're playing be the head of the snake you're playing be the head of the snake you're playing the role of one of these people that the role of one of these people that the role of one of these people that essentially is for lack of a better word essentially is for lack of a better word essentially is for lack of a better word one of the many millions and millions of one of the many millions and millions of one of the many millions and millions of functionaries who kept the I mean on the functionaries who kept the I mean on the functionaries who kept the I mean on the book that the movie is based on the book that the movie is based on the book that the movie is based on the novel is called The Good Shepherd and novel is called The Good Shepherd and novel is called The Good Shepherd and that's what the destroyer escorts are that's what the destroyer escorts are that's what the destroyer escorts are for these convoys they are Shepherds for these convoys they are Shepherds for these convoys they are Shepherds they are people who guard the logistical they are people who guard the logistical they are people who guard the logistical supply train and they're not the people supply train and they're not the people supply train and they're not the people you normally think of as hitting the you normally think of as hitting the you normally think of as hitting the beach at Iwo Jima it's a different kind beach at Iwo Jima it's a different kind beach at Iwo Jima it's a different kind of heroism isn't it yeah it is it's of heroism isn't it yeah it is it's of heroism isn't it yeah it is it's delivering the mail through yes through delivering the mail through yes through delivering the mail through yes through through a maelstrom that you that could through a maelstrom that you that could through a maelstrom that you that could take your life that you you make the take your life that you you make the take your life that you you make the wrong turn you make the wrong decision wrong turn you make the wrong decision wrong turn you make the wrong decision you make a wrong assumption if you're if you make a wrong assumption if you're if you make a wrong assumption if you're if you if you're so foolish is to live by you if you're so foolish is to live by you if you're so foolish is to live by assumptions guess what you have made the assumptions guess what you have made the assumptions guess what you have made the critical mistake of your life of that it critical mistake of your life of that it critical mistake of your life of that it now our movie is set in 1942 there is now our movie is set in 1942 there is now our movie is set in 1942 there is there is a couple of major buys in it there is a couple of major buys in it there is a couple of major buys in it one of them being that there's a there's one of them being that there's a there's one of them being that there's a there's a there's an ocean liner that's been a there's an ocean liner that's been a there's an ocean liner that's been converted and there's five thousand you converted and there's five thousand you converted and there's five thousand you know fresh troops to it and this is know fresh troops to it and this is know fresh troops to it and this is historical that happened a lot yeah yeah historical that happened a lot yeah yeah historical that happened a lot yeah yeah yeah it did and at any given moment yeah it did and at any given moment yeah it did and at any given moment there would be forty convoys crossing there would be forty convoys crossing there would be forty convoys crossing the North Atlantic not just one not just the North Atlantic not just one not just the North Atlantic not just one not just two they didn't have all their eggs in two they didn't have all their eggs in two they didn't have all their eggs in one basket they were all different sizes

one basket they were all different sizes one basket they were all different sizes made up of ships from all the Allied made up of ships from all the Allied made up of ships from all the Allied navies the poles the Norwegians the the navies the poles the Norwegians the the navies the poles the Norwegians the the Canadians anybody led a ship that you Canadians anybody led a ship that you Canadians anybody led a ship that you could load up with anything from could load up with anything from could load up with anything from bayonets to raw iron ingots coal cans a bayonets to raw iron ingots coal cans a bayonets to raw iron ingots coal cans a tent beef screwdrivers socks anything tent beef screwdrivers socks anything tent beef screwdrivers socks anything that was desperately needed not just by that was desperately needed not just by that was desperately needed not just by the populace of Great Britain but by the the populace of Great Britain but by the the populace of Great Britain but by the soldiers that were going to at Sunday soldiers that were going to at Sunday soldiers that were going to at Sunday take on take on the Nazi courts take on take on the Nazi courts take on take on the Nazi courts themselves was delivered there by these themselves was delivered there by these themselves was delivered there by these ships slow rust-bucket e ships I think I ships slow rust-bucket e ships I think I ships slow rust-bucket e ships I think I think your tops be you could only go as think your tops be you could only go as think your tops be you could only go as fast as a slower ship in your convoy fast as a slower ship in your convoy fast as a slower ship in your convoy captain Krauss and Greyhound or protect captain Krauss and Greyhound or protect captain Krauss and Greyhound or protect ding 37 ships in a cotton the slowest of ding 37 ships in a cotton the slowest of ding 37 ships in a cotton the slowest of them can probably only manage about 14 them can probably only manage about 14 them can probably only manage about 14 knots so that's the speed which which knots so that's the speed which which knots so that's the speed which which they are crossing the North Atlantic they are crossing the North Atlantic they are crossing the North Atlantic heavy seas wintertime night time 24 heavy seas wintertime night time 24 heavy seas wintertime night time 24 hours a day hours a day hours a day zig zagging in order to hopefully either zig zagging in order to hopefully either zig zagging in order to hopefully either to not be not be found out or to evade to not be not be found out or to evade to not be not be found out or to evade the Nazi submarines of which there are the Nazi submarines of which there are the Nazi submarines of which there are dozens and dozens and dozens out there dozens and dozens and dozens out there dozens and dozens and dozens out there looking looking for targets in order to looking looking for targets in order to looking looking for targets in order to see every time they think any ship it's see every time they think any ship it's see every time they think any ship it's a plus for them strength sink a ship a plus for them strength sink a ship a plus for them strength sink a ship with with troops great sink a ship with with with troops great sink a ship with with with troops great sink a ship with a jeeps great sink a ship with tires or a jeeps great sink a ship with tires or a jeeps great sink a ship with tires or barrels of castor oil whatever great barrels of castor oil whatever great barrels of castor oil whatever great that's a that that's a win so the guys

that's a that that's a win so the guys that's a that that's a win so the guys who are in charge of that are over on who are in charge of that are over on who are in charge of that are over on board that the cook onboard that one of board that the cook onboard that one of board that the cook onboard that one of those ships the the guy who does the those ships the the guy who does the those ships the the guy who does the laundry the african-american messmates laundry the african-american messmates laundry the african-american messmates who because of a segregation are who because of a segregation are who because of a segregation are relegated to those duties except when relegated to those duties except when relegated to those duties except when General Quarters our sound sounded and General Quarters our sound sounded and General Quarters our sound sounded and then they run off in bandar posts all then they run off in bandar posts all then they run off in bandar posts all those all those guys are literally those all those guys are literally those all those guys are literally floating potential casualties that could floating potential casualties that could floating potential casualties that could disappear in the wink of an eye drowned disappear in the wink of an eye drowned disappear in the wink of an eye drowned be you know be blown up never be seen be you know be blown up never be seen be you know be blown up never be seen ever again and what have they been doing ever again and what have they been doing ever again and what have they been doing for how did they serve in the war daddy for how did they serve in the war daddy for how did they serve in the war daddy well I made sure that there was enough well I made sure that there was enough well I made sure that there was enough potatoes to our crew if the Seas allowed potatoes to our crew if the Seas allowed potatoes to our crew if the Seas allowed us to boil them in hot water which often us to boil them in hot water which often us to boil them in hot water which often was not the case that bad guy look I'm was not the case that bad guy look I'm was not the case that bad guy look I'm never usually when I get something from never usually when I get something from never usually when I get something from the marketing department they say oh the marketing department they say oh the marketing department they say oh here's the tagline for a-- for your here's the tagline for a-- for your here's the tagline for a-- for your movie I kind of go okay alright that's movie I kind of go okay alright that's movie I kind of go okay alright that's there's a little hyperbole in there guys there's a little hyperbole in there guys there's a little hyperbole in there guys I think you I think you're ratcheting it I think you I think you're ratcheting it I think you I think you're ratcheting it up a little but not in this case you up a little but not in this case you up a little but not in this case you know it is it was let's not the you can know it is it was let's not the you can know it is it was let's not the you can argue more dangerous than the front argue more dangerous than the front argue more dangerous than the front let's just say as dangerous as a front let's just say as dangerous as a front let's just say as dangerous as a front your your the odds your your the odds your your the odds of you dying at sea just being a guy on of you dying at sea just being a guy on of you dying at sea just being a guy on a boat whose job it is to protect a a boat whose job it is to protect a a boat whose job it is to protect a bunch of other slow-moving boats was the

bunch of other slow-moving boats was the bunch of other slow-moving boats was the same it's somewhere somewhere between same it's somewhere somewhere between same it's somewhere somewhere between wildly out of your favor and possibly in wildly out of your favor and possibly in wildly out of your favor and possibly in your safe you're not a combat soldier your safe you're not a combat soldier your safe you're not a combat soldier until you are in that situation right so until you are in that situation right so until you are in that situation right so so let me talk a little bit about the so let me talk a little bit about the so let me talk a little bit about the screenplay because you wrote that um and screenplay because you wrote that um and screenplay because you wrote that um and and let me say as a guy who my dad used and let me say as a guy who my dad used and let me say as a guy who my dad used to say he could he could always know how to say he could he could always know how to say he could he could always know how the movie was gonna go cuz he could tell the movie was gonna go cuz he could tell the movie was gonna go cuz he could tell how it was cut and there's always how it was cut and there's always how it was cut and there's always there's always a Madlib quality to these there's always a Madlib quality to these there's always a Madlib quality to these kind of films where you could almost kind of films where you could almost kind of films where you could almost write a template for how they're gonna write a template for how they're gonna write a template for how they're gonna go and yours wasn't like that you caught go and yours wasn't like that you caught go and yours wasn't like that you caught me off guard several times one thing me off guard several times one thing me off guard several times one thing when I was trying to learn how to write when I was trying to learn how to write when I was trying to learn how to write columns once upon a time they used to columns once upon a time they used to columns once upon a time they used to talk about how you should take out every talk about how you should take out every talk about how you should take out every word that you didn't need and that by word that you didn't need and that by word that you didn't need and that by the end you had this very tight sort of the end you had this very tight sort of the end you had this very tight sort of thing that says everything you want to thing that says everything you want to thing that says everything you want to say doesn't diminish the story at all say doesn't diminish the story at all say doesn't diminish the story at all but is is as few words as possible I but is is as few words as possible I but is is as few words as possible I thought this was an amazingly snappy thought this was an amazingly snappy thought this was an amazingly snappy script I remember when it ended I turned script I remember when it ended I turned script I remember when it ended I turned around said wow I couldn't believe that around said wow I couldn't believe that around said wow I couldn't believe that we'd already gone through it didn't drag we'd already gone through it didn't drag we'd already gone through it didn't drag for a second and if this was a wine and for a second and if this was a wine and for a second and if this was a wine and you were talking about the notes of you were talking about the notes of you were talking about the notes of chocolate and a little bit of oak I mean chocolate and a little bit of oak I mean chocolate and a little bit of oak I mean this was this had overtones of sink the this was this had overtones of sink the this was this had overtones of sink the Bismarck to me and some of you know run Bismarck to me and some of you know run Bismarck to me and some of you know run silent run deep but also some of some silent run deep but also some of some silent run deep but also some of some jaws mixed with some of this idea I mean jaws mixed with some of this idea I mean jaws mixed with some of this idea I mean you were able and this is what I thought you were able and this is what I thought you were able and this is what I thought was so snappy you were able to take me was so snappy you were able to take me was so snappy you were able to take me into these and we loved doing this on into these and we loved doing this on into these and we loved doing this on this this history show to where we'll this this history show to where we'll this this history show to where we'll talk about the moral quandary xand and talk about the moral quandary xand and talk about the moral quandary xand and and awful choices that people are put and awful choices that people are put and awful choices that people are put into because they're just sort of into because they're just sort of into because they're just sort of trapped in the gears of history normally

trapped in the gears of history normally trapped in the gears of history normally there takes a lot of setup to really get there takes a lot of setup to really get there takes a lot of setup to really get to that moment and you put me in that to that moment and you put me in that to that moment and you put me in that moment three or four times in this film moment three or four times in this film moment three or four times in this film and I found myself in it without any and I found myself in it without any and I found myself in it without any setup at all I mean the genius of being setup at all I mean the genius of being setup at all I mean the genius of being able to write it so I was in this moral able to write it so I was in this moral able to write it so I was in this moral quandary and all you had to give me was quandary and all you had to give me was quandary and all you had to give me was look in the distance your character sees look in the distance your character sees look in the distance your character sees something in the distance we look into something in the distance we look into something in the distance we look into your eyes it would have taken me 15 your eyes it would have taken me 15 your eyes it would have taken me 15 minutes of conversation and thousands of minutes of conversation and thousands of minutes of conversation and thousands of words to set up that same scene um do words to set up that same scene um do words to set up that same scene um do you enjoy the screenplay parts because you enjoy the screenplay parts because you enjoy the screenplay parts because I'm getting tired of all of your talent I'm getting tired of all of your talent I'm getting tired of all of your talent actors creeping back in it but I mean it actors creeping back in it but I mean it actors creeping back in it but I mean it was you took this from a novel was you took this from a novel was you took this from a novel not to steal one of your four questions not to steal one of your four questions not to steal one of your four questions from the celebrity mule train list but from the celebrity mule train list but from the celebrity mule train list but tell me a little about coming up with tell me a little about coming up with tell me a little about coming up with this and deciding you wanted to write this and deciding you wanted to write this and deciding you wanted to write the screenplay I mean was a novel right the screenplay I mean was a novel right the screenplay I mean was a novel right a/cs forest or piece yes I I purchased I a/cs forest or piece yes I I purchased I a/cs forest or piece yes I I purchased I purchased the novel from a bookstore purchased the novel from a bookstore purchased the novel from a bookstore this has since got out of business on this has since got out of business on this has since got out of business on Madison Avenue because it was it was a Madison Avenue because it was it was a Madison Avenue because it was it was a used bookstore and got a used bookstore used bookstore and got a used bookstore used bookstore and got a used bookstore but it had collectibles you know in the but it had collectibles you know in the but it had collectibles you know in the front window and I saw this thing he is front window and I saw this thing he is front window and I saw this thing he is Forester I was aware of from Horatio Forester I was aware of from Horatio Forester I was aware of from Horatio horn right okay which I never read any horn right okay which I never read any horn right okay which I never read any Horatio horn was it oh that's a guy who Horatio horn was it oh that's a guy who Horatio horn was it oh that's a guy who are out for a shot and the the the it are out for a shot and the the the it are out for a shot and the the the it was the original cover and it was a was the original cover and it was a was the original cover and it was a painting a drawing of this very old painting a drawing of this very old painting a drawing of this very old gray-haired guy on the railing of a ship gray-haired guy on the railing of a ship gray-haired guy on the railing of a ship with his tie askew the wind blowing in with his tie askew the wind blowing in with his tie askew the wind blowing in his face his jacket undone he just looks his face his jacket undone he just looks his face his jacket undone he just looks bent beaten on the horizon behind him a

bent beaten on the horizon behind him a bent beaten on the horizon behind him a ship is tilting up smoking and sinking ship is tilting up smoking and sinking ship is tilting up smoking and sinking beside him was a some formulas figure in beside him was a some formulas figure in beside him was a some formulas figure in a helmet that is sending out a signal on a helmet that is sending out a signal on a helmet that is sending out a signal on a signal lamp and I I said who's that a signal lamp and I I said who's that a signal lamp and I I said who's that who's that guy who is that guy I'm used who's that guy who is that guy I'm used who's that guy who is that guy I'm used to that the you know the trope of the to that the you know the trope of the to that the you know the trope of the some cop some some form be somewhere some cop some some form be somewhere some cop some some form be somewhere between Don Ameche and Robert Mitchum as between Don Ameche and Robert Mitchum as between Don Ameche and Robert Mitchum as being the guy in command yes being the guy in command yes being the guy in command yes some battle between Burt Lancaster and some battle between Burt Lancaster and some battle between Burt Lancaster and Clark Gable you know I'm used to that Clark Gable you know I'm used to that Clark Gable you know I'm used to that that that I've never seen some old that that I've never seen some old that that I've never seen some old silver haired guy who looks like he silver haired guy who looks like he silver haired guy who looks like he shouldn't friggin be there so picked it shouldn't friggin be there so picked it shouldn't friggin be there so picked it up as a page to I in mesh in foresters up as a page to I in mesh in foresters up as a page to I in mesh in foresters book that tells the tale of these of book that tells the tale of these of book that tells the tale of these of these the sequence of days from inside these the sequence of days from inside these the sequence of days from inside Ernie Krauss his head all of his Ernie Krauss his head all of his Ernie Krauss his head all of his thoughts the math that he does in his thoughts the math that he does in his thoughts the math that he does in his head the geometry the the the the head the geometry the the the the head the geometry the the the the sensibility of when he sensibility of when he sensibility of when he asked to call off the General Quarters asked to call off the General Quarters asked to call off the General Quarters so that sailors who have been in their so that sailors who have been in their so that sailors who have been in their posts for the last five hours can go to posts for the last five hours can go to posts for the last five hours can go to the bathroom maybe get some rest have the bathroom maybe get some rest have the bathroom maybe get some rest have some hot food if it's possible to serve some hot food if it's possible to serve some hot food if it's possible to serve huh what it means as far as the time

huh what it means as far as the time huh what it means as far as the time goes how much time do they have to goes how much time do they have to goes how much time do they have to straighten up the column because not all straighten up the column because not all straighten up the column because not all those ships can make the zigzags at the those ships can make the zigzags at the those ships can make the zigzags at the same time do you know when when when the same time do you know when when when the same time do you know when when when the convoys but the convoys were were told convoys but the convoys were were told convoys but the convoys were were told when to make a zigzag either by a when to make a zigzag either by a when to make a zigzag either by a prescribed moment of time or by seeing prescribed moment of time or by seeing prescribed moment of time or by seeing the certain proper signal flags rise up the certain proper signal flags rise up the certain proper signal flags rise up on the mast of the Commodores ship on the mast of the Commodores ship on the mast of the Commodores ship that's how they weren't said okay a that's how they weren't said okay a that's how they weren't said okay a convoy time to make the turn that did convoy time to make the turn that did convoy time to make the turn that did not happen they just understood that oh not happen they just understood that oh not happen they just understood that oh we have to make the turn now so 37 ships we have to make the turn now so 37 ships we have to make the turn now so 37 ships making a turn to the left or the right making a turn to the left or the right making a turn to the left or the right by a certain number of degrees is a by a certain number of degrees is a by a certain number of degrees is a recipe for chaos it has literally sheep recipe for chaos it has literally sheep recipe for chaos it has literally sheep in a field following the cue of each in a field following the cue of each in a field following the cue of each other and on the periphery are the dogs other and on the periphery are the dogs other and on the periphery are the dogs that keep them in in order the good chef that keep them in in order the good chef that keep them in in order the good chef tells the good shepherd so all tells the good shepherd so all tells the good shepherd so all everything that happened in it's right everything that happened in it's right everything that happened in it's right down to the quality of a cup of coffee down to the quality of a cup of coffee down to the quality of a cup of coffee or the frustration that he doesn't get or the frustration that he doesn't get or the frustration that he doesn't get to have a full bite of what his to have a full bite of what his to have a full bite of what his sandwiches or of his wolfing down a meal sandwiches or of his wolfing down a meal sandwiches or of his wolfing down a meal in a matter of three minutes because he in a matter of three minutes because he in a matter of three minutes because he knows that if he doesn't have the knows that if he doesn't have the knows that if he doesn't have the calories in his body he's not going to calories in his body he's not going to calories in his body he's not going to be able to think clearly and when the be able to think clearly and when the be able to think clearly and when the time comes up he won't be able to do the time comes up he won't be able to do the time comes up he won't be able to do the math or respond along with that came math or respond along with that came math or respond along with that came comes the fact that we know hey we know comes the fact that we know hey we know comes the fact that we know hey we know we won the war right yes and we have

we won the war right yes and we have we won the war right yes and we have seen many many times a showman our guy seen many many times a showman our guy seen many many times a showman our guy saying wait a minute what is it I think saying wait a minute what is it I think saying wait a minute what is it I think I hear something I hear something I hear something or radar coming on going bloop bloop or radar coming on going bloop bloop or radar coming on going bloop bloop bloop that's showing us where something bloop that's showing us where something bloop that's showing us where something is radar at particularly 1942 is radar at particularly 1942 is radar at particularly 1942 ridiculously complicated and and punchy ridiculously complicated and and punchy ridiculously complicated and and punchy but yeah but yeah but yeah sometimes sometimes all you saw was sometimes sometimes all you saw was sometimes sometimes all you saw was crest of the waves the 20-foot waves on crest of the waves the 20-foot waves on crest of the waves the 20-foot waves on your radar screen you saw nothing else your radar screen you saw nothing else your radar screen you saw nothing else except patterns of these waves even down except patterns of these waves even down except patterns of these waves even down to the depth charges that in 1942 were to the depth charges that in 1942 were to the depth charges that in 1942 were bulky nearly boxing they were not bulky nearly boxing they were not bulky nearly boxing they were not streamed lined so each one of them sank streamed lined so each one of them sank streamed lined so each one of them sank at a very slow rate later on at a very slow rate later on at a very slow rate later on they had streamlined depth charges they they had streamlined depth charges they they had streamlined depth charges they had hedgehogs and all these other all had hedgehogs and all these other all had hedgehogs and all these other all these other weaponry but in 1942 they these other weaponry but in 1942 they these other weaponry but in 1942 they had essentially they were dumping had essentially they were dumping had essentially they were dumping explosive garbage cans into the water explosive garbage cans into the water explosive garbage cans into the water waiting for them to float down to a waiting for them to float down to a waiting for them to float down to a certain depth and then exploding and certain depth and then exploding and certain depth and then exploding and maybe damaging something that could be maybe damaging something that could be maybe damaging something that could be there could not be there I've listened there could not be there I've listened there could not be there I've listened to sonar recordings training training to sonar recordings training training to sonar recordings training training records literally 45 records that you records literally 45 records that you records literally 45 records that you put a needle on for and the front from put a needle on for and the front from put a needle on for and the front from the air and it sounds something like the air and it sounds something like the air and it sounds something like this this this hmm example 6a engine running at 14 hmm example 6a engine running at 14 hmm example 6a engine running at 14 knots school noises example seven

knots school noises example seven knots school noises example seven torpedo on approach you're going to tell torpedo on approach you're going to tell torpedo on approach you're going to tell me that in primitive 1942 headphones me that in primitive 1942 headphones me that in primitive 1942 headphones earbuds Allah you know FDR's era but earbuds Allah you know FDR's era but earbuds Allah you know FDR's era but you're going to be able to figure out you're going to be able to figure out you're going to be able to figure out what that is over a over a hydrophone what that is over a over a hydrophone what that is over a over a hydrophone that's also fighting waves and and that's also fighting waves and and that's also fighting waves and and what-have-you what-have-you what-have-you the inaccuracy of all of this stuff the inaccuracy of all of this stuff the inaccuracy of all of this stuff prayed on Colonel on the Ernie Krause's prayed on Colonel on the Ernie Krause's prayed on Colonel on the Ernie Krause's mind and he had to take it all into mind and he had to take it all into mind and he had to take it all into account so in the book there was so account so in the book there was so account so in the book there was so adapting it was a fever dream for me I adapting it was a fever dream for me I adapting it was a fever dream for me I just said okay I'm only doing this for just said okay I'm only doing this for just said okay I'm only doing this for myself because dammit no one else would myself because dammit no one else would myself because dammit no one else would take the job very frustrated I don't take the job very frustrated I don't take the job very frustrated I don't want to do this homework you know I want to do this homework you know I want to do this homework you know I don't have to sit around and do all this don't have to sit around and do all this don't have to sit around and do all this I was hoping I was going to get one of I was hoping I was going to get one of I was hoping I was going to get one of my you know great writer pals to take my you know great writer pals to take my you know great writer pals to take one look at it and just say Oh turn me one look at it and just say Oh turn me one look at it and just say Oh turn me loose first of all nobody wants to do loose first of all nobody wants to do loose first of all nobody wants to do anybody else's work but their own and no anybody else's work but their own and no anybody else's work but their own and no one wants to be in the bylaws they don't one wants to be in the bylaws they don't one wants to be in the bylaws they don't want to be locked into the procedure of want to be locked into the procedure of want to be locked into the procedure of adapting something that you have to stay adapting something that you have to stay adapting something that you have to stay pretty adhere to so on I ended up taking pretty adhere to so on I ended up taking pretty adhere to so on I ended up taking out and I said I am going to pick every out and I said I am going to pick every out and I said I am going to pick every cherry off this tree that I'm in love cherry off this tree that I'm in love cherry off this tree that I'm in love with I'm gonna put it down here on paper with I'm gonna put it down here on paper with I'm gonna put it down here on paper and it was thick and it was thick and it was thick it had animation it had mind's eye it had animation it had mind's eye it had animation it had mind's eye demonstrations I wanted to try to demonstrations I wanted to try to demonstrations I wanted to try to communicate somehow that Kraus was

communicate somehow that Kraus was communicate somehow that Kraus was thinking about where these submarines thinking about where these submarines thinking about where these submarines could possibly be could possibly be could possibly be by having swastikas dancing on the waves by having swastikas dancing on the waves by having swastikas dancing on the waves of where he thought they might be oh of where he thought they might be oh of where he thought they might be oh that's interesting now the problem with that's interesting now the problem with that's interesting now the problem with that is is first of all it blows the that is is first of all it blows the that is is first of all it blows the budget up because that's a special hour budget up because that's a special hour budget up because that's a special hour special effects budget here you know special effects budget here you know special effects budget here you know what when you're trying to make all what when you're trying to make all what when you're trying to make all these ships in the sea and everything these ships in the sea and everything these ships in the sea and everything look like photo reality that requires a look like photo reality that requires a look like photo reality that requires a fidelity that a cheat so that was one fidelity that a cheat so that was one fidelity that a cheat so that was one aspect of it but becoming also into aspect of it but becoming also into aspect of it but becoming also into anybody else who read it to me it was anybody else who read it to me it was anybody else who read it to me it was like don't you see that's like that like don't you see that's like that like don't you see that's like that that's like the imagining that's what that's like the imagining that's what that's like the imagining that's what that's what that's what's haunting that's what that's what's haunting that's what that's what's haunting Krauss himself and almost to a to it to Krauss himself and almost to a to it to Krauss himself and almost to a to it to him to a person everybody who read it him to a person everybody who read it him to a person everybody who read it down at the office as well as Aaron down at the office as well as Aaron down at the office as well as Aaron Schneider who was the director director Schneider who was the director director Schneider who was the director director of it he he said this you're giving it of it he he said this you're giving it of it he he said this you're giving it away you're showing the shark yeah yeah away you're showing the shark yeah yeah away you're showing the shark yeah yeah totally totally totally and I went damn you to hell yeah with and I went damn you to hell yeah with and I went damn you to hell yeah with your logic of all this so there was that your logic of all this so there was that your logic of all this so there was that there was an awful lot of things and and there was an awful lot of things and and there was an awful lot of things and and the pairing away of all those things is the pairing away of all those things is the pairing away of all those things is what is required when you're making the what is required when you're making the what is required when you're making the leap I went I adapted a book and put it leap I went I adapted a book and put it leap I went I adapted a book and put it in into a hundred and twenty some odd in into a hundred and twenty some odd in into a hundred and twenty some odd page screenplay that remains only a page screenplay that remains only a page screenplay that remains only a blueprint for what has to be the blueprint for what has to be the blueprint for what has to be the cinematic narrative that is visual and cinematic narrative that is visual and cinematic narrative that is visual and then has to be I was lucky and that we

then has to be I was lucky and that we then has to be I was lucky and that we got to be as cryptic as we are because got to be as cryptic as we are because got to be as cryptic as we are because the uninitiated unless you call that the uninitiated unless you call that the uninitiated unless you call that let's call the uninitiated any executive let's call the uninitiated any executive let's call the uninitiated any executive at the studio who sees them at the studio who sees them at the studio who sees them we'll say can you help us understand a we'll say can you help us understand a we'll say can you help us understand a little bit of what the danger is here little bit of what the danger is here little bit of what the danger is here what the stakes are and on course you what the stakes are and on course you what the stakes are and on course you know I have to bite my tongue Shane do know I have to bite my tongue Shane do know I have to bite my tongue Shane do you honestly not understand what this you honestly not understand what this you honestly not understand what this takes well we just want to know what takes well we just want to know what takes well we just want to know what what what the Jeopardy really is here what what the Jeopardy really is here what what the Jeopardy really is here can you flesh it out a little bit more can you flesh it out a little bit more can you flesh it out a little bit more can you can you give us some hints as to can you can you give us some hints as to can you can you give us some hints as to what the conflict is this war is it a what the conflict is this war is it a what the conflict is this war is it a big thing this is a big war right we're big thing this is a big war right we're big thing this is a big war right we're talking yeah yeah so I would yeah I said talking yeah yeah so I would yeah I said talking yeah yeah so I would yeah I said oh yeah you know what we're gonna add a oh yeah you know what we're gonna add a oh yeah you know what we're gonna add a we're gonna add a line so that one of we're gonna add a line so that one of we're gonna add a line so that one of the lookouts will say this captain the lookouts will say this captain the lookouts will say this captain there's a u-boat on the surface they there's a u-boat on the surface they there's a u-boat on the surface they might be trying to sink us with one of might be trying to sink us with one of might be trying to sink us with one of their torpedoes and I said okay we're their torpedoes and I said okay we're their torpedoes and I said okay we're not going to have those kind of lines we not going to have those kind of lines we not going to have those kind of lines we had you know I was schooled in a lot had you know I was schooled in a lot had you know I was schooled in a lot about this stuff by other directors that about this stuff by other directors that about this stuff by other directors that I worked with Anne and Ronnie Howard on I worked with Anne and Ronnie Howard on I worked with Anne and Ronnie Howard on on Apollo 13 when we were putting it all on Apollo 13 when we were putting it all on Apollo 13 when we were putting it all together there's this concept of gimbal together there's this concept of gimbal together there's this concept of gimbal lock gimbal lock you do not you do not lock gimbal lock you do not you do not lock gimbal lock you do not you do not want the command module on the way to want the command module on the way to want the command module on the way to the moon to experience gimbal lock it's the moon to experience gimbal lock it's the moon to experience gimbal lock it's a really bad thing it essentially a really bad thing it essentially a really bad thing it essentially negates all of your navigating you can't negates all of your navigating you can't negates all of your navigating you can't tell where you are if the three gimble's tell where you are if the three gimble's tell where you are if the three gimble's lock gimbal lock bad thing ronson how

lock gimbal lock bad thing ronson how lock gimbal lock bad thing ronson how are we gonna know that's a bad thing and are we gonna know that's a bad thing and are we gonna know that's a bad thing and we said because we're going to say it in we said because we're going to say it in we said because we're going to say it in a real serious manner Hey a real serious manner Hey a real serious manner Hey do anything make sure you don't make do anything make sure you don't make do anything make sure you don't make sure you'll go in the gimbal lock that's sure you'll go in the gimbal lock that's sure you'll go in the gimbal lock that's all you need all you need all you need we don't have to talk about the three we don't have to talk about the three we don't have to talk about the three gyros that handle the X the Y and the Z gyros that handle the X the Y and the Z gyros that handle the X the Y and the Z actually we don't have to go through all actually we don't have to go through all actually we don't have to go through all we don't have to go with the breakdown we don't have to go with the breakdown we don't have to go with the breakdown dude show schematics of the navigational dude show schematics of the navigational dude show schematics of the navigational propulsion system in the Commandant so propulsion system in the Commandant so propulsion system in the Commandant so we were able to enjoy the same sort of we were able to enjoy the same sort of we were able to enjoy the same sort of faith in in in in being cryptic as well faith in in in in being cryptic as well faith in in in in being cryptic as well as letting the nomenclature and the as letting the nomenclature and the as letting the nomenclature and the procedure define itself as we went along procedure define itself as we went along procedure define itself as we went along the truth is about the pilothouse under the truth is about the pilothouse under the truth is about the pilothouse under these circumstances is the only two these circumstances is the only two these circumstances is the only two people that move around on who are people that move around on who are people that move around on who are permanently on watch is permanently on watch is permanently on watch is the commander the captain and the talker the commander the captain and the talker the commander the captain and the talker who follows him everywhere the talker who follows him everywhere the talker who follows him everywhere the talker communicating by the most primitive form communicating by the most primitive form communicating by the most primitive form of electronics imaginable he plugs in of electronics imaginable he plugs in of electronics imaginable he plugs in his headset into an outlet wherever he his headset into an outlet wherever he his headset into an outlet wherever he is standing and it stands right next to is standing and it stands right next to is standing and it stands right next to the captain to repeat everything he the captain to repeat everything he the captain to repeat everything he hears over his headphones and then to hears over his headphones and then to hears over his headphones and then to repeat into the headphones anything the repeat into the headphones anything the repeat into the headphones anything the captain says to him now that means captain says to him now that means captain says to him now that means you'll end up hearing stuff from sonar you'll end up hearing stuff from sonar you'll end up hearing stuff from sonar you end up hearing stuff from the radar you end up hearing stuff from the radar you end up hearing stuff from the radar even appearing stuff from all over the even appearing stuff from all over the even appearing stuff from all over the ship that comes out of the voice and the ship that comes out of the voice and the ship that comes out of the voice and the face of the actor who was playing the face of the actor who was playing the face of the actor who was playing the talker everybody else stand Stockstill

talker everybody else stand Stockstill talker everybody else stand Stockstill the helmsman does not move away from the helmsman does not move away from the helmsman does not move away from that steering wheel the telegraph that steering wheel the telegraph that steering wheel the telegraph operator the guy who operates the operator the guy who operates the operator the guy who operates the engines as soon as it you know forward engines as soon as it you know forward engines as soon as it you know forward back speed all ahead two-thirds he back speed all ahead two-thirds he back speed all ahead two-thirds he stands right next to the engine stands right next to the engine stands right next to the engine Telegraph the the guy who writes down Telegraph the the guy who writes down Telegraph the the guy who writes down the plot who keeps the wreck nobody the plot who keeps the wreck nobody the plot who keeps the wreck nobody moves for four hours at a time and the moves for four hours at a time and the moves for four hours at a time and the nomenclature that goes off the dialogue nomenclature that goes off the dialogue nomenclature that goes off the dialogue that goes back they said how could how that goes back they said how could how that goes back they said how could how come how do we know what a con is how come how do we know what a con is how come how do we know what a con is how can they cop can they cop can they cop how can they keep saying I have a con how can they keep saying I have a con how can they keep saying I have a con you have a con what does that mean they you have a con what does that mean they you have a con what does that mean they said you will you will figure out over said you will you will figure out over said you will you will figure out over time that one of the most important time that one of the most important time that one of the most important things for everybody to know on the things for everybody to know on the things for everybody to know on the bridge is who's in charge of steering bridge is who's in charge of steering bridge is who's in charge of steering the boat so when someone comes on when the boat so when someone comes on when the boat so when someone comes on when the captain comes on and says mr. the captain comes on and says mr. the captain comes on and says mr. Harbach I have the con that means they Harbach I have the con that means they Harbach I have the con that means they don't listen to anybody else except the don't listen to anybody else except the don't listen to anybody else except the captain and when the captain says mr. captain and when the captain says mr. captain and when the captain says mr. Harbach you have the con mr. Harvard Harbach you have the con mr. Harvard Harbach you have the con mr. Harvard says yes sir says yes sir says yes sir I have the con so everybody knows you I have the con so everybody knows you I have the con so everybody knows you listen to mr. Harbach for all those listen to mr. Harbach for all those listen to mr. Harbach for all those right so there's never a question and right so there's never a question and right so there's never a question and that's the kind of stuff that becomes that's the kind of stuff that becomes that's the kind of stuff that becomes number one the language of it number one the language of it number one the language of it III harken it back to seeing like the III harken it back to seeing like the III harken it back to seeing like the Seven Samurai Kurosawa the Seven Samurai Seven Samurai Kurosawa the Seven Samurai Seven Samurai Kurosawa the Seven Samurai in the original Japanese and you're in the original Japanese and you're in the original Japanese and you're reading the subtitles but about three reading the subtitles but about three reading the subtitles but about three minutes and you think you're hearing the minutes and you think you're hearing the minutes and you think you're hearing the Japanese you know you think you speak Japanese you know you think you speak Japanese you know you think you speak Japanese now because it's all it's all Japanese now because it's all it's all Japanese now because it's all it's all matched up superbly it's the same thing matched up superbly it's the same thing matched up superbly it's the same thing with this if you you figure out that oh

with this if you you figure out that oh with this if you you figure out that oh I oh I actually understand the rules I oh I actually understand the rules I oh I actually understand the rules a little bit better what's going on a little bit better what's going on a little bit better what's going on outside of that god bless cs4 store he outside of that god bless cs4 store he outside of that god bless cs4 store he had absolutely no backstory whatsoever had absolutely no backstory whatsoever had absolutely no backstory whatsoever he did not go and he doesn't go to the he did not go and he doesn't go to the he did not go and he doesn't go to the Admiralty to show those people pushing Admiralty to show those people pushing Admiralty to show those people pushing around the little model boats as they around the little model boats as they around the little model boats as they take you know messages from all around take you know messages from all around take you know messages from all around there's no scene in Washington DC there's no scene in Washington DC there's no scene in Washington DC there's not even a scene on the there's not even a scene on the there's not even a scene on the Commodores boat or on one of the Commodores boat or on one of the Commodores boat or on one of the submarines it all takes place if not in submarines it all takes place if not in submarines it all takes place if not in Krauss's head on board be the bridge and Krauss's head on board be the bridge and Krauss's head on board be the bridge and the decks inside of the Greyhound itself the decks inside of the Greyhound itself the decks inside of the Greyhound itself which is actually a code name for a ship which is actually a code name for a ship which is actually a code name for a ship called the USS Kealing but you'd be called the USS Kealing but you'd be called the USS Kealing but you'd be amazed at how troublesome it can be to amazed at how troublesome it can be to amazed at how troublesome it can be to refer to the one ship in your movie by refer to the one ship in your movie by refer to the one ship in your movie by two different names so it all just they two different names so it all just they two different names so it all just they all just became code names all just became code names all just became code names this is disagree one of the one of the this is disagree one of the one of the this is disagree one of the one of the great things that I did not know I did great things that I did not know I did great things that I did not know I did not know this until I read it was we not know this until I read it was we not know this until I read it was we talk between ships you don't want to talk between ships you don't want to talk between ships you don't want to talk on the radio when you're when talk on the radio when you're when talk on the radio when you're when you're at sea like this you don't want you're at sea like this you don't want you're at sea like this you don't want to be constantly getting on the radio to be constantly getting on the radio to be constantly getting on the radio say hey I got a problem with this and say hey I got a problem with this and say hey I got a problem with this and can you hurry up and get to me there and can you hurry up and get to me there and can you hurry up and get to me there and where are you don't want to do that where are you don't want to do that where are you don't want to do that because the enemy is listening to because the enemy is listening to because the enemy is listening to anything that comes in but how do you anything that comes in but how do you anything that comes in but how do you have that instantaneous conversation have that instantaneous conversation have that instantaneous conversation between the four Shepherd's the four between the four Shepherd's the four between the four Shepherd's the four ships that are that are tasked with as ships that are that are tasked with as ships that are that are tasked with as well it was a little thing called talk well it was a little thing called talk well it was a little thing called talk between ships yes which was it which was

between ships yes which was it which was between ships yes which was it which was a radio very short-range there it was a a radio very short-range there it was a a radio very short-range there it was a VHF line-of-sight meaning that if a ship VHF line-of-sight meaning that if a ship VHF line-of-sight meaning that if a ship was on the other side of the horizon you was on the other side of the horizon you was on the other side of the horizon you couldn't talk to it so you got on very couldn't talk to it so you got on very couldn't talk to it so you got on very quickly you spoke in a more or less an quickly you spoke in a more or less an quickly you spoke in a more or less an abbreviated code go back to station what abbreviated code go back to station what abbreviated code go back to station what is your status things like that so that is your status things like that so that is your status things like that so that even if and by the way the Nazis were even if and by the way the Nazis were even if and by the way the Nazis were listening they were sitting around on listening they were sitting around on listening they were sitting around on their radios when they were up on the their radios when they were up on the their radios when they were up on the service just going back and forth across service just going back and forth across service just going back and forth across the VHF spectrum to find a wavelength the VHF spectrum to find a wavelength the VHF spectrum to find a wavelength that the talk between ships was using that the talk between ships was using that the talk between ships was using and then they'd land on that listen in and then they'd land on that listen in and then they'd land on that listen in for as long as they could and then they for as long as they could and then they for as long as they could and then they would periodically change in order to in would periodically change in order to in would periodically change in order to in order just to in order to come order just to in order to come order just to in order to come monkey around in order to make put in monkey around in order to make put in monkey around in order to make put in some some guests way I didn't know that some some guests way I didn't know that some some guests way I didn't know that I thought it was just a you know Dan we I thought it was just a you know Dan we I thought it was just a you know Dan we the average American knows most of its the average American knows most of its the average American knows most of its naval terminology and and strategy from naval terminology and and strategy from naval terminology and and strategy from watching episodes of starch Oh weird you watching episodes of starch Oh weird you watching episodes of starch Oh weird you said that I almost brought that up I said that I almost brought that up I said that I almost brought that up I said there's a little bit of Star Trek said there's a little bit of Star Trek said there's a little bit of Star Trek in this one of the real combat II in this one of the real combat II in this one of the real combat II episodes heck you know hailing episodes heck you know hailing episodes heck you know hailing frequencies mr. Chekov Romulans coming frequencies mr. Chekov Romulans coming frequencies mr. Chekov Romulans coming yes yes yes Romulans uh we have this you know there Romulans uh we have this you know there Romulans uh we have this you know there Spock over it his little blue light Spock over it his little blue light Spock over it his little blue light visor thing saying mmm he's got the visor thing saying mmm he's got the visor thing saying mmm he's got the sonar and the radar reports saying it sonar and the radar reports saying it sonar and the radar reports saying it might be this it might be that they might be this it might be that they might be this it might be that they might be over here the Romulans use a

might be over here the Romulans use a might be over here the Romulans use a cloaking device we're not sure where cloaking device we're not sure where cloaking device we're not sure where they are they are they are here's another here's another and this here's another here's another and this here's another here's another and this is again nobody knows this stuff because is again nobody knows this stuff because is again nobody knows this stuff because we we have been accepting the tropes of we we have been accepting the tropes of we we have been accepting the tropes of the the cinema of this in which is just the the cinema of this in which is just the the cinema of this in which is just too hard to explain something as basic too hard to explain something as basic too hard to explain something as basic as this except for a probably Wolfgang as this except for a probably Wolfgang as this except for a probably Wolfgang Petersen's das book which is really Petersen's das book which is really Petersen's das book which is really added which was a grant granddaddy of added which was a grant granddaddy of added which was a grant granddaddy of all these things you watch das boat you all these things you watch das boat you all these things you watch das boat you realize it oh my god and they had to realize it oh my god and they had to realize it oh my god and they had to take all that food with him at any given take all that food with him at any given take all that food with him at any given time one of the toilets was filled up time one of the toilets was filled up time one of the toilets was filled up with bread and sausages that's right with bread and sausages that's right with bread and sausages that's right they did not have a lot of room in this they did not have a lot of room in this they did not have a lot of room in this place one of the things that we that is place one of the things that we that is place one of the things that we that is so hard to communicate was incredibly so hard to communicate was incredibly so hard to communicate was incredibly important is that when a Nazi submarine important is that when a Nazi submarine important is that when a Nazi submarine went down under went under the water it went down under went under the water it went down under went under the water it slowed down to to only six knots slowed down to to only six knots slowed down to to only six knots they couldn't manage much more than six they couldn't manage much more than six they couldn't manage much more than six or seven knots so on the surface they or seven knots so on the surface they or seven knots so on the surface they can keep up with the ship they can keep can keep up with the ship they can keep can keep up with the ship they can keep up with the convoy they just got to stay up with the convoy they just got to stay up with the convoy they just got to stay out of sight they just got to stay on out of sight they just got to stay on out of sight they just got to stay on the other side they got to stay muted the other side they got to stay muted the other side they got to stay muted hidden anytime they go underwater they hidden anytime they go underwater they hidden anytime they go underwater they can only go about a third as as fast as can only go about a third as as fast as can only go about a third as as fast as they could on the surface nobody knows they could on the surface nobody knows they could on the surface nobody knows that everybody thinks are they just you that everybody thinks are they just you that everybody thinks are they just you know that's how they got there they went know that's how they got there they went know that's how they got there they went underwater and they found no no once underwater and they found no no once underwater and they found no no once they sighted them then they started they sighted them then they started they sighted them then they started going back up and down and they could going back up and down and they could going back up and down and they could not stay underwater for very long why not stay underwater for very long why not stay underwater for very long why because their engines were powered by because their engines were powered by because their engines were powered by batteries they were the batteries they were the batteries they were the you know there's a sub famous submarine you know there's a sub famous submarine you know there's a sub famous submarine plant in the United States it's called

plant in the United States it's called plant in the United States it's called the electric boat company because they the electric boat company because they the electric boat company because they were electric boats when they went were electric boats when they went were electric boats when they went underwater batteries electricity powered underwater batteries electricity powered underwater batteries electricity powered their screws and drills them through the their screws and drills them through the their screws and drills them through the water batteries go dead especially you water batteries go dead especially you water batteries go dead especially you know World War 2 era Nazi batteries from know World War 2 era Nazi batteries from know World War 2 era Nazi batteries from 1939 I'm not you know I don't know how 1939 I'm not you know I don't know how 1939 I'm not you know I don't know how long they could tune in the rate long they could tune in the rate long they could tune in the rate eventually they'd have to be recharged eventually they'd have to be recharged eventually they'd have to be recharged and the only way to recharge them is to and the only way to recharge them is to and the only way to recharge them is to go back up to the surface where your go back up to the surface where your go back up to the surface where your exhaust from your diesel engines can not exhaust from your diesel engines can not exhaust from your diesel engines can not only power your boat but also power the only power your boat but also power the only power your boat but also power the generators that recharge your batteries generators that recharge your batteries generators that recharge your batteries it ends up becoming such a convoluted it ends up becoming such a convoluted it ends up becoming such a convoluted thing that if you want to ignore it you thing that if you want to ignore it you thing that if you want to ignore it you can but you're cheating the authenticity can but you're cheating the authenticity can but you're cheating the authenticity of all the the serendipity of the one of all the the serendipity of the one of all the the serendipity of the one damn thing after another aspect of the damn thing after another aspect of the damn thing after another aspect of the drama so there's what what could we drama so there's what what could we drama so there's what what could we throw into the mix their dialog wise throw into the mix their dialog wise throw into the mix their dialog wise that would communicate somehow that that would communicate somehow that that would communicate somehow that submarines when they go underwater have submarines when they go underwater have submarines when they go underwater have to go really slow there's one line that to go really slow there's one line that to go really slow there's one line that Aaron and I and Stephen Graham came up Aaron and I and Stephen Graham came up Aaron and I and Stephen Graham came up with when we were doing it when we were with when we were doing it when we were with when we were doing it when we were mapping out how do we communicate this mapping out how do we communicate this mapping out how do we communicate this stuff and the Ernie crowd says to stuff and the Ernie crowd says to stuff and the Ernie crowd says to Charlie you know can you plot a course Charlie you know can you plot a course Charlie you know can you plot a course on this heading at six knots and give us on this heading at six knots and give us on this heading at six knots and give us a point of intersection all right this a point of intersection all right this a point of intersection all right this much time going this then going this much time going this then going this much time going this then going this speed us going our speed we should be speed us going our speed we should be speed us going our speed we should be able to find them in you know like six able to find them in you know like six able to find them in you know like six miles wow that's a lot of map if you

miles wow that's a lot of map if you miles wow that's a lot of map if you really had to explain it outside of a really had to explain it outside of a really had to explain it outside of a couple of visuals you know we show couple of visuals you know we show couple of visuals you know we show literally a grease pencil and a literally a grease pencil and a literally a grease pencil and a protractor and a ruler on a map if you protractor and a ruler on a map if you protractor and a ruler on a map if you had to really get into it my gosh it had to really get into it my gosh it had to really get into it my gosh it would just take absolutely forever so I would just take absolutely forever so I would just take absolutely forever so I said we we do it and the audience the said we we do it and the audience the said we we do it and the audience the audience will catch up I'll tell you audience will catch up I'll tell you audience will catch up I'll tell you what you kicked my rear end and it's what you kicked my rear end and it's what you kicked my rear end and it's it's not a place that it would have it's not a place that it would have it's not a place that it would have kicked my rear end if I was watching kicked my rear end if I was watching kicked my rear end if I was watching platoon in the 1980s and I was a 20 year platoon in the 1980s and I was a 20 year platoon in the 1980s and I was a 20 year old right you kicked my rear end when old right you kicked my rear end when old right you kicked my rear end when I'm watching it and the the captain of I'm watching it and the the captain of I'm watching it and the the captain of course is almost a father figure but course is almost a father figure but course is almost a father figure but this the sailors on this ship so many of this the sailors on this ship so many of this the sailors on this ship so many of them them them like kids you really Cap'n what was like kids you really Cap'n what was like kids you really Cap'n what was great about that is after it punched me great about that is after it punched me great about that is after it punched me in the gut and I was thinking to myself in the gut and I was thinking to myself in the gut and I was thinking to myself I still want to know where my 18 year I still want to know where my 18 year I still want to know where my 18 year old is you know at midnight I want a old is you know at midnight I want a old is you know at midnight I want a phone call and these people on this ship phone call and these people on this ship phone call and these people on this ship are no older than that and you're are no older than that and you're are no older than that and you're looking at them like as a dad going if looking at them like as a dad going if looking at them like as a dad going if that's my kid and you know it was like that's my kid and you know it was like that's my kid and you know it was like like flying with the world war two guys like flying with the world war two guys like flying with the world war two guys they're all like 23 years old if you they're all like 23 years old if you they're all like 23 years old if you told my pilot on my on my Delta flight told my pilot on my on my Delta flight told my pilot on my on my Delta flight today is 23 years old I'm not going on today is 23 years old I'm not going on today is 23 years old I'm not going on that flight and I'm watching this that flight and I'm watching this that flight and I'm watching this captain and he is like these these captain and he is like these these captain and he is like these these children who turned out to be our children who turned out to be our children who turned out to be our grandparents you know 45 years later are grandparents you know 45 years later are grandparents you know 45 years later are they're on this ship and they're looking they're on this ship and they're looking they're on this ship and they're looking to this one guy who's on his first to this one guy who's on his first to this one guy who's on his first mission across with the convoy to mission across with the convoy to mission across with the convoy to protect them and to make the right protect them and to make the right protect them and to make the right decisions when he caught between a rock decisions when he caught between a rock decisions when he caught between a rock and a hard place and a hard place and a hard place that's almost the transcendent and that's almost the transcendent and that's almost the transcendent and that's the historical experience right that's the historical experience right that's the historical experience right there of people putting the crux of the

there of people putting the crux of the there of people putting the crux of the moment isn't it where there's no good moment isn't it where there's no good moment isn't it where there's no good decisions and they're worried they decisions and they're worried they decisions and they're worried they screwed up and when they screwed up screwed up and when they screwed up screwed up and when they screwed up people died not to quote that Jack people died not to quote that Jack people died not to quote that Jack Nicholson line but but I mean that to me Nicholson line but but I mean that to me Nicholson line but but I mean that to me in that movie made made that person that in that movie made made that person that in that movie made made that person that captain of that ship the everyman for me captain of that ship the everyman for me captain of that ship the everyman for me and and this could be you and what would and and this could be you and what would and and this could be you and what would you do in this situation and how many you do in this situation and how many you do in this situation and how many times would you replay it in your head times would you replay it in your head times would you replay it in your head for the rest of your days you know you for the rest of your days you know you for the rest of your days you know you really made me feel that be that really made me feel that be that really made me feel that be that gray-haired old man that I saw on the gray-haired old man that I saw on the gray-haired old man that I saw on the cover of the book is what Xie Forrester cover of the book is what Xie Forrester cover of the book is what Xie Forrester wrote Ernie Krauts graduated from the wrote Ernie Krauts graduated from the wrote Ernie Krauts graduated from the United States Naval Academy in the early United States Naval Academy in the early United States Naval Academy in the early 1920s when there was no war he has been 1920s when there was no war he has been 1920s when there was no war he has been in the Navy ever since and he is in the Navy ever since and he is in the Navy ever since and he is endeavor risen above pitted and retained endeavor risen above pitted and retained endeavor risen above pitted and retained that that's what every one of his that that's what every one of his that that's what every one of his promotional ratings have been well promotional ratings have been well promotional ratings have been well here's the good news you're staying in here's the good news you're staying in here's the good news you're staying in the Navy the bad news is you're fitted the Navy the bad news is you're fitted the Navy the bad news is you're fitted and retained meaning you're not getting and retained meaning you're not getting and retained meaning you're not getting an extra stripe you're not jumping up a an extra stripe you're not jumping up a an extra stripe you're not jumping up a pay grade pay grade pay grade you're staying exactly where you are so you're staying exactly where you are so you're staying exactly where you are so Ernie Kraus has written a desk carried a Ernie Kraus has written a desk carried a Ernie Kraus has written a desk carried a briefcase to him served on maybe some briefcase to him served on maybe some briefcase to him served on maybe some ships but not in a wartime capacity he ships but not in a wartime capacity he ships but not in a wartime capacity he was probably in charge of keeping track was probably in charge of keeping track was probably in charge of keeping track of an awful lot of things so it of an awful lot of things so it of an awful lot of things so it top of the the top of the movie we do top of the the top of the movie we do top of the the top of the movie we do have we do have a one quote unquote have we do have a one quote unquote have we do have a one quote unquote flashback scene which is right after flashback scene which is right after flashback scene which is right after Pearl Harbor a guy who is on his way out

Pearl Harbor a guy who is on his way out Pearl Harbor a guy who is on his way out of the Navy probably because of lack of of the Navy probably because of lack of of the Navy probably because of lack of need as well as a lack of opportunity need as well as a lack of opportunity need as well as a lack of opportunity instead is suddenly one of the most instead is suddenly one of the most instead is suddenly one of the most important men in uniform he's got he's important men in uniform he's got he's important men in uniform he's got he's got close to 20 years of naval got close to 20 years of naval got close to 20 years of naval experience as well as rank so he is now experience as well as rank so he is now experience as well as rank so he is now going to be given his own ship because going to be given his own ship because going to be given his own ship because they need a guy in charge of it he's they need a guy in charge of it he's they need a guy in charge of it he's going to have to go and drill a crew in going to have to go and drill a crew in going to have to go and drill a crew in training tactics a bunch of other people training tactics a bunch of other people training tactics a bunch of other people who but other kids who have just signed who but other kids who have just signed who but other kids who have just signed up they signed up the day after Monday up they signed up the day after Monday up they signed up the day after Monday December 8th 1941 they went in and and December 8th 1941 they went in and and December 8th 1941 they went in and and joined up in the Navy they're all kids joined up in the Navy they're all kids joined up in the Navy they're all kids he is in you know I'm on let me just say he is in you know I'm on let me just say he is in you know I'm on let me just say this I I play somebody who's like 48 this I I play somebody who's like 48 this I I play somebody who's like 48 alright he is not just say if you want alright he is not just say if you want alright he is not just say if you want 28 years old in the Armed Services in in 28 years old in the Armed Services in in 28 years old in the Armed Services in in World War 2 you know what they called World War 2 you know what they called World War 2 you know what they called you old man yep they called you pop yes so when they're making references to the so when they're making references to the old man onboard Greyhound they are old man onboard Greyhound they are old man onboard Greyhound they are literally talking about an old man and literally talking about an old man and literally talking about an old man and not only is he old and he's an old man not only is he old and he's an old man not only is he old and he's an old man who's never done this before who's never done this before who's never done this before all of this stuff has only been theory all of this stuff has only been theory all of this stuff has only been theory in his head theory in school work in his head theory in school work in his head theory in school work classroom work book works he's been at classroom work book works he's been at classroom work book works he's been at sea to a degree but not like this and sea to a degree but not like this and sea to a degree but not like this and and not not charge like that and not not charge like that and not not charge like that Aaron Snyder the director would that the Aaron Snyder the director would that the Aaron Snyder the director would that the conversations we always had was we

conversations we always had was we conversations we always had was we wanted to have I wanted to have four wanted to have I wanted to have four wanted to have I wanted to have four different watches we had three because I different watches we had three because I different watches we had three because I believe it was a watch was made up of believe it was a watch was made up of believe it was a watch was made up of everybody who was crewing their position everybody who was crewing their position everybody who was crewing their position for four hours four hours on eight hours for four hours four hours on eight hours for four hours four hours on eight hours off four hours on eight hours off four off four hours on eight hours off four off four hours on eight hours off four hours on eight hours off and so we hours on eight hours off and so we hours on eight hours off and so we needed fresh faces to help communicate needed fresh faces to help communicate needed fresh faces to help communicate number one how how much time has passed number one how how much time has passed number one how how much time has passed but number two to escape that Star Trek but number two to escape that Star Trek but number two to escape that Star Trek trope of every time Captain Kirk walked trope of every time Captain Kirk walked trope of every time Captain Kirk walked on the bridge it was always the same on the bridge it was always the same on the bridge it was always the same crew who roll and you know instant check crew who roll and you know instant check crew who roll and you know instant check up we needed guys who looked different up we needed guys who looked different up we needed guys who looked different like the faces of the stalkers than like the faces of the stalkers than like the faces of the stalkers than themselves we have but I think we have themselves we have but I think we have themselves we have but I think we have two or three different stalkers the guys two or three different stalkers the guys two or three different stalkers the guys who are the helmsman who said we needed who are the helmsman who said we needed who are the helmsman who said we needed a parade parade and they were all look I a parade parade and they were all look I a parade parade and they were all look I don't know how old they actually are but don't know how old they actually are but don't know how old they actually are but they all look like they were 13 they did they all look like they were 13 they did they all look like they were 13 they did this is and and that is accurate I think this is and and that is accurate I think this is and and that is accurate I think there's you know a Rob Morgan who plays there's you know a Rob Morgan who plays there's you know a Rob Morgan who plays George Cleveland one of the masts mates George Cleveland one of the masts mates George Cleveland one of the masts mates he is a career Navy man he is he is a career Navy man he is he is a career Navy man he is african-american who's been in the Navy african-american who's been in the Navy african-american who's been in the Navy probably four you know he's probably probably four you know he's probably probably four you know he's probably going for if he doesn't have his 20 going for if he doesn't have his 20 going for if he doesn't have his 20 years already he's gonna stay in it years already he's gonna stay in it years already he's gonna stay in it because it's a great job because it's a great job because it's a great job you know Charlie Cole my executive you know Charlie Cole my executive you know Charlie Cole my executive officer he's older he's a career Navy officer he's older he's a career Navy officer he's older he's a career Navy man and and probably the doctor you know man and and probably the doctor you know man and and probably the doctor you know the ship's doctor you know he went the ship's doctor you know he went the ship's doctor you know he went through medical school so he's an older through medical school so he's an older through medical school so he's an older fella but everybody else on board the

fella but everybody else on board the fella but everybody else on board the ship is probably average age has got to ship is probably average age has got to ship is probably average age has got to be 24 years old and that could be as be 24 years old and that could be as be 24 years old and that could be as young as 80 or even as young as 17 for young as 80 or even as young as 17 for young as 80 or even as young as 17 for somebody who cheated on their enlistment somebody who cheated on their enlistment somebody who cheated on their enlistment which a lot of people did yes listen man which a lot of people did yes listen man which a lot of people did yes listen man it's it's what a joy arm if I appreciate it's it's what a joy arm if I appreciate it's it's what a joy arm if I appreciate you coming on and it's a great movie and you coming on and it's a great movie and you coming on and it's a great movie and if we could ever help you promote if we could ever help you promote if we could ever help you promote anything again or or for whatever reason anything again or or for whatever reason anything again or or for whatever reason keep my key my contact handy in the keep my key my contact handy in the keep my key my contact handy in the rolodex the old digital rolodex would rolodex the old digital rolodex would rolodex the old digital rolodex would you I will do that indeed thank you so you I will do that indeed thank you so you I will do that indeed thank you so much for having this first-time caller much for having this first-time caller much for having this first-time caller on your show I really enjoy take care of on your show I really enjoy take care of on your show I really enjoy take care of yourself and thank you so much yourself and thank you so much yourself and thank you so much take care Dan bye-bye my thanks to Tom Hanks for coming on the my thanks to Tom Hanks for coming on the program program program he really does sort of live up to his he really does sort of live up to his he really does sort of live up to his reputation as the nicest guy in reputation as the nicest guy in reputation as the nicest guy in Hollywood and the movies great Greyhound Hollywood and the movies great Greyhound Hollywood and the movies great Greyhound you can catch it on Apple TV Plus and you can catch it on Apple TV Plus and you can catch it on Apple TV Plus and you can follow us by the way at at you can follow us by the way at at you can follow us by the way at at hardcore history on Twitter we'll keep hardcore history on Twitter we'll keep hardcore history on Twitter we'll keep you updated anytime we release any you updated anytime we release any you updated anytime we release any history content and you know hope y'all history content and you know hope y'all history content and you know hope y'all stay safe in these wonderfully uncertain stay safe in these wonderfully uncertain stay safe in these wonderfully uncertain times we're living in thanks for times we're living in thanks for times we're living in thanks for listening listening listening wrath of the cons Punic nightmares wrath of the cons Punic nightmares wrath of the cons Punic nightmares Apache tears and of course ghosts of the Apache tears and of course ghosts of the Apache tears and of course ghosts of the austere on just a few of the classic austere on just a few of the classic austere on just a few of the classic hardcore history titles available from hardcore history titles available from hardcore history titles available from dan Karlin com every true fan has heard dan Karlin com every true fan has heard dan Karlin com every true fan has heard these favorites these favorites these favorites hey they make great gifts too