EP7 Hardcore History On Fire

it's hardcore it's hardcore history so in this hardcore history addendum so in this hardcore history addendum we're going to have a friend of mine on we're going to have a friend of mine on we're going to have a friend of mine on the program and it's going to be kind of the program and it's going to be kind of the program and it's going to be kind of a cross a cross a cross cast between his show and mine cast between his show and mine cast between his show and mine and i hope you pardon me i have a cold and i hope you pardon me i have a cold and i hope you pardon me i have a cold right now so things are a little right now so things are a little right now so things are a little less than perfect um his name is less than perfect um his name is less than perfect um his name is danielle bolelli by the way you may know danielle bolelli by the way you may know danielle bolelli by the way you may know him because he's a famous history him because he's a famous history him because he's a famous history podcaster does history on fire podcaster does history on fire podcaster does history on fire uh he has another podcast uh called the uh he has another podcast uh called the uh he has another podcast uh called the drunken daoist and drunken daoist and drunken daoist and we've been friends for a long time and we've been friends for a long time and we've been friends for a long time and uh he's wonderful that wonderful lyrical uh he's wonderful that wonderful lyrical uh he's wonderful that wonderful lyrical voice of his and the way he looks at the voice of his and the way he looks at the voice of his and the way he looks at the past past past and we had been talking about doing a and we had been talking about doing a and we had been talking about doing a program together for a while and the program together for a while and the program together for a while and the stars just kind of aligned stars just kind of aligned stars just kind of aligned this was recorded a couple of weeks ago this was recorded a couple of weeks ago this was recorded a couple of weeks ago actually um actually um actually um which is good because like i said i have which is good because like i said i have which is good because like i said i have a cold now um but danielle came on he a cold now um but danielle came on he a cold now um but danielle came on he had a couple of things he wanted to talk had a couple of things he wanted to talk had a couple of things he wanted to talk about and so that's sort of the um about and so that's sort of the um about and so that's sort of the um the gist for how the show kind of went the gist for how the show kind of went the gist for how the show kind of went in the direction it did in the direction it did in the direction it did i'll have a few thoughts afterwards i'll have a few thoughts afterwards i'll have a few thoughts afterwards because you know because you know because you know as it always seems to happen right i as it always seems to happen right i as it always seems to happen right i thought of a good point or two or thought of a good point or two or thought of a good point or two or something i should have brought up something i should have brought up something i should have brought up during the during the during the discussion and didn't so we'll call that discussion and didn't so we'll call that discussion and didn't so we'll call that a footnote to the show you're about to a footnote to the show you're about to a footnote to the show you're about to hear the crosscast between hear the crosscast between hear the crosscast between uh yours truly and uh my friend the uh yours truly and uh my friend the uh yours truly and uh my friend the great danielle bulelli okay then let's get playing one okay then let's get playing one topic that i found fascinating as of topic that i found fascinating as of topic that i found fascinating as of late late late i'm seeing a lot on social media some i'm seeing a lot on social media some i'm seeing a lot on social media some efforts to efforts to efforts to kind of redefine terms this is mostly kind of redefine terms this is mostly kind of redefine terms this is mostly happening in u.s i don't know if this is

happening in u.s i don't know if this is happening in u.s i don't know if this is a discussion that's really happening in a discussion that's really happening in a discussion that's really happening in other parts of the world but in us i'm other parts of the world but in us i'm other parts of the world but in us i'm seeing a lot of discussion regarding the seeing a lot of discussion regarding the seeing a lot of discussion regarding the political spectrum what's left-wing political spectrum what's left-wing political spectrum what's left-wing what's right-wing what's right-wing what's right-wing where phenomena like fascism and nazism where phenomena like fascism and nazism where phenomena like fascism and nazism fit into the spectrum and you know fit into the spectrum and you know fit into the spectrum and you know personally i find the whole left-wing personally i find the whole left-wing personally i find the whole left-wing right-wing discussion right-wing discussion right-wing discussion almost intellectually lazy because to me almost intellectually lazy because to me almost intellectually lazy because to me is like i'm not even an is like i'm not even an is like i'm not even an interest in if it's an idea it comes interest in if it's an idea it comes interest in if it's an idea it comes from the left wing or a right wing to me from the left wing or a right wing to me from the left wing or a right wing to me an idea is either a good idea or a bad an idea is either a good idea or a bad an idea is either a good idea or a bad idea who cares where it comes from idea who cares where it comes from idea who cares where it comes from so even thinking in those terms to me so even thinking in those terms to me so even thinking in those terms to me and encore just factionalism and encore just factionalism and encore just factionalism however having said that if we insist on however having said that if we insist on however having said that if we insist on using these terms like left wing right using these terms like left wing right using these terms like left wing right wing then we should probably use them wing then we should probably use them wing then we should probably use them correctly correctly correctly and what i'm seeing these days is and what i'm seeing these days is and what i'm seeing these days is [Music] [Music] [Music] a major attempt to change a major attempt to change a major attempt to change the way the terms have been used the way the terms have been used the way the terms have been used historically kind of reminds me of the historically kind of reminds me of the historically kind of reminds me of the princess bride you know when they say princess bride you know when they say princess bride you know when they say you keep using this word you keep using this word you keep using this word i don't think it means what you think it i don't think it means what you think it i don't think it means what you think it means means means that's sort of the feeling i'm getting that's sort of the feeling i'm getting that's sort of the feeling i'm getting in this discussion in this discussion in this discussion so i would love to get your take on so i would love to get your take on so i would love to get your take on uh and you know we can jump into a whole uh and you know we can jump into a whole uh and you know we can jump into a whole discussion on this thing regarding the discussion on this thing regarding the discussion on this thing regarding the political spectrum where political spectrum where political spectrum where how it's changing the meaning of it what how it's changing the meaning of it what how it's changing the meaning of it what it used to mean it used to mean it used to mean historically and all of that well i historically and all of that well i historically and all of that well i think a little background probably makes think a little background probably makes think a little background probably makes sense before we get started because sense before we get started because sense before we get started because sure i think we should acknowledge one sure i think we should acknowledge one sure i think we should acknowledge one thing right off the top and that's that thing right off the top and that's that thing right off the top and that's that the idea of the political spectrum is a the idea of the political spectrum is a the idea of the political spectrum is a human created thing human created thing human created thing um and so and so and not just a human

um and so and so and not just a human um and so and so and not just a human created thing but something that created thing but something that created thing but something that sort of developed organically in sort of developed organically in sort of developed organically in revolutionary era france revolutionary era france revolutionary era france that was then sort of morphed into that was then sort of morphed into that was then sort of morphed into something that was used ever since and something that was used ever since and something that was used ever since and and ever since people have been trying and ever since people have been trying and ever since people have been trying to figure out how you make it better to figure out how you make it better to figure out how you make it better because it's such an imperfect way to because it's such an imperfect way to because it's such an imperfect way to describe political positions describe political positions describe political positions um so as you and i both know but let's um so as you and i both know but let's um so as you and i both know but let's review um review um review um in in pre-revolutionary early in in pre-revolutionary early in in pre-revolutionary early revolutionary france you have revolutionary france you have revolutionary france you have an assembly where all the the people an assembly where all the the people an assembly where all the the people meet and and from the meet and and from the meet and and from the speaker's platform on the assembly the speaker's platform on the assembly the speaker's platform on the assembly the people who were the honored aristocratic people who were the honored aristocratic people who were the honored aristocratic movers and shakers movers and shakers movers and shakers blue bloods in that society sat on the blue bloods in that society sat on the blue bloods in that society sat on the right side of the assembly right side of the assembly right side of the assembly and the bourgeois we were today called and the bourgeois we were today called and the bourgeois we were today called the middle class or upper middle class the middle class or upper middle class the middle class or upper middle class the businessman all the the merchants the businessman all the the merchants the businessman all the the merchants they sat on the left and then that they sat on the left and then that they sat on the left and then that became you know the beginnings of where became you know the beginnings of where became you know the beginnings of where people would say you know a man on the people would say you know a man on the people would say you know a man on the left or a man of the right left or a man of the right left or a man of the right and so that's where that initially comes and so that's where that initially comes and so that's where that initially comes from and then that became sort of the from and then that became sort of the from and then that became sort of the shorthand shorthand shorthand that was transposed onto later political that was transposed onto later political that was transposed onto later political systems forever afterwards whether or systems forever afterwards whether or systems forever afterwards whether or not not not it was a really good description of it was a really good description of it was a really good description of other societies other countries other societies other countries other societies other countries political political political systems and places far removed from systems and places far removed from systems and places far removed from revolutionary france so revolutionary france so revolutionary france so that's how it starts and then from there that's how it starts and then from there that's how it starts and then from there on what we have here is a human created on what we have here is a human created on what we have here is a human created system that is designed to try to system that is designed to try to system that is designed to try to provide a shorthand if you will for provide a shorthand if you will for provide a shorthand if you will for people's political persuasions people's political persuasions people's political persuasions and ever since people have realized how and ever since people have realized how and ever since people have realized how inadequate inadequate inadequate it is to describe you know something as it is to describe you know something as it is to describe you know something as complex as people's political beliefs

complex as people's political beliefs complex as people's political beliefs and that's why ever since there have and that's why ever since there have and that's why ever since there have been been been attempts to three-dimensionalize it or attempts to three-dimensionalize it or attempts to three-dimensionalize it or create another axis create another axis create another axis to measure other things that the to measure other things that the to measure other things that the left-right political spectrum doesn't left-right political spectrum doesn't left-right political spectrum doesn't measure measure measure and so in in that case what we have here and so in in that case what we have here and so in in that case what we have here now is a now is a now is a um a spectrum which doesn't resemble the um a spectrum which doesn't resemble the um a spectrum which doesn't resemble the one that you and i grew up with i'm 53 one that you and i grew up with i'm 53 one that you and i grew up with i'm 53 uh you're younger than i am but both of uh you're younger than i am but both of uh you're younger than i am but both of us grew up in an era where this us grew up in an era where this us grew up in an era where this the original traditional let's call it the original traditional let's call it the original traditional let's call it traditional for lack of a better word traditional for lack of a better word traditional for lack of a better word political spectrum was in force and in political spectrum was in force and in political spectrum was in force and in that spectrum just so that we have a that spectrum just so that we have a that spectrum just so that we have a benchmark from where we can have this benchmark from where we can have this benchmark from where we can have this conversation from uh speaking as an conversation from uh speaking as an conversation from uh speaking as an american you grew up in a different american you grew up in a different american you grew up in a different environment environment environment but in the united states we were taught but in the united states we were taught but in the united states we were taught when i was a kid when i was a kid when i was a kid that the united states and other western that the united states and other western that the united states and other western democracies fell somewhere in the middle democracies fell somewhere in the middle democracies fell somewhere in the middle of the spectrum and that both ends of of the spectrum and that both ends of of the spectrum and that both ends of the spectrum either the far left or the the spectrum either the far left or the the spectrum either the far left or the far far far right represented extremist philosophies right represented extremist philosophies right represented extremist philosophies different kinds of extremist different kinds of extremist different kinds of extremist philosophies but extremist philosophies philosophies but extremist philosophies philosophies but extremist philosophies and and so that's where it started so and and so that's where it started so and and so that's where it started so the far left when we were growing up was the far left when we were growing up was the far left when we were growing up was always always always communism the far right was always communism the far right was always communism the far right was always fascism fascism fascism and so that's why you and i are confused and so that's why you and i are confused and so that's why you and i are confused when we hear people today when we hear people today when we hear people today speak about for example the nazis being speak about for example the nazis being speak about for example the nazis being on the left side of the spectrum because on the left side of the spectrum because on the left side of the spectrum because on the traditional one on the traditional one on the traditional one it was always the right side of the it was always the right side of the it was always the right side of the spectrum right now i should point out spectrum right now i should point out spectrum right now i should point out that i had a political science professor that i had a political science professor that i had a political science professor in the 1980s in college and this was the in the 1980s in college and this was the in the 1980s in college and this was the first time i ever heard anybody say this first time i ever heard anybody say this first time i ever heard anybody say this who said that who said that who said that really maybe we should think of that really maybe we should think of that really maybe we should think of that linear political spectrum as more of a linear political spectrum as more of a linear political spectrum as more of a circle circle circle and that the two halves the two extremes

and that the two halves the two extremes and that the two halves the two extremes actually have actually have actually have many things in common so maybe they many things in common so maybe they many things in common so maybe they touch on the other end touch on the other end touch on the other end but so so when we have this discussion but so so when we have this discussion but so so when we have this discussion let's remember that this is the spectrum let's remember that this is the spectrum let's remember that this is the spectrum you and i you and i you and i were operating from and that most people were operating from and that most people were operating from and that most people from our era and before from our era and before from our era and before understood so now let's let's let's go understood so now let's let's let's go understood so now let's let's let's go from there so why don't you start by from there so why don't you start by from there so why don't you start by explaining what you're seeing out there explaining what you're seeing out there explaining what you're seeing out there that is so discomforting that is so discomforting that is so discomforting well start like to throw a wrench into well start like to throw a wrench into well start like to throw a wrench into into that political spectrum which by into that political spectrum which by into that political spectrum which by the way it's exactly the way it's exactly the way it's exactly correct right that's exactly how we grew correct right that's exactly how we grew correct right that's exactly how we grew up that's how it was always defined up that's how it was always defined up that's how it was always defined but take something like anarchism but take something like anarchism but take something like anarchism anarchism traditionally was considered anarchism traditionally was considered anarchism traditionally was considered an extreme left position and here you an extreme left position and here you an extreme left position and here you have you know communism and fascism or have you know communism and fascism or have you know communism and fascism or communism and nazism being one communism and nazism being one communism and nazism being one consider extreme right and one extreme consider extreme right and one extreme consider extreme right and one extreme left but they are both share the fact left but they are both share the fact left but they are both share the fact that they are totalitarian systems that they are totalitarian systems that they are totalitarian systems anarchism on the other hand by going anarchism on the other hand by going anarchism on the other hand by going radically against the very idea of the radically against the very idea of the radically against the very idea of the state state state seems to be at the opposite end of seems to be at the opposite end of seems to be at the opposite end of totalitarianism totalitarianism totalitarianism and yet he was never defined in any way and yet he was never defined in any way and yet he was never defined in any way shape or form as a right wing concept he shape or form as a right wing concept he shape or form as a right wing concept he was considered was considered was considered ultra extreme left so what i find weird ultra extreme left so what i find weird ultra extreme left so what i find weird in this in this in this is plugging is plugging is plugging certain movements that you know they certain movements that you know they certain movements that you know they have defined themselves as conservative have defined themselves as conservative have defined themselves as conservative right wing right wing right wing their opponents define them as their opponents define them as their opponents define them as conservative right wing conservative right wing conservative right wing everyone involved was very clear about everyone involved was very clear about everyone involved was very clear about who they were and what was who they were and what was who they were and what was up and now kind of trying to completely up and now kind of trying to completely up and now kind of trying to completely change the meaning of what used to be change the meaning of what used to be change the meaning of what used to be something that something that something that was pretty much understood by everybody was pretty much understood by everybody was pretty much understood by everybody i mean to me it's like it's funny

i mean to me it's like it's funny i mean to me it's like it's funny because because because growing up in italy i'm growing up in italy i'm growing up in italy i'm i've been very familiar with lots of i've been very familiar with lots of i've been very familiar with lots of people who are fascists people who are fascists people who are fascists i've been in conversation with people i've been in conversation with people i've been in conversation with people who are neo-nazis who are neo-nazis who are neo-nazis so to me this is not even like a so to me this is not even like a so to me this is not even like a theoretical debate these are actual theoretical debate these are actual theoretical debate these are actual flesh and blood people who have spoken flesh and blood people who have spoken flesh and blood people who have spoken to and if you tell these people that to and if you tell these people that to and if you tell these people that they are left-wing they are left-wing they are left-wing you don't want to see the consequences you don't want to see the consequences you don't want to see the consequences because they hate because they hate because they hate anything to do with the term left-wing anything to do with the term left-wing anything to do with the term left-wing already make them go berserk and they already make them go berserk and they already make them go berserk and they hate that so hate that so hate that so the feather today in usmc in this the feather today in usmc in this the feather today in usmc in this redefining of the spectrum that redefining of the spectrum that redefining of the spectrum that basically places basically places basically places all of the totalitarian movements from all of the totalitarian movements from all of the totalitarian movements from communists communists communists which everybody argue they are left which everybody argue they are left which everybody argue they are left wings there's no disagreement there wings there's no disagreement there wings there's no disagreement there but from fascists and nazis who are but from fascists and nazis who are but from fascists and nazis who are traditionally considered traditionally considered traditionally considered right-wing suddenly plugging the mold as right-wing suddenly plugging the mold as right-wing suddenly plugging the mold as left-wing phenomenon left-wing phenomenon left-wing phenomenon i find that really bizarre like to me it i find that really bizarre like to me it i find that really bizarre like to me it seemed like a post-modernist attempt to seemed like a post-modernist attempt to seemed like a post-modernist attempt to redefine to rewrite the dictionary redefine to rewrite the dictionary redefine to rewrite the dictionary well now let me interrupt you because well now let me interrupt you because well now let me interrupt you because that's exactly what it is uh that's exactly what it is uh that's exactly what it is uh but the and here's the thing the people but the and here's the thing the people but the and here's the thing the people who did this redefining were very open who did this redefining were very open who did this redefining were very open about it this wasn't a secret about it this wasn't a secret about it this wasn't a secret the problem is is that many of the the problem is is that many of the the problem is is that many of the people who quote them or who people who quote them or who people who quote them or who or who or who um who who ascribe to the or who or who um who who ascribe to the or who or who um who who ascribe to the same theory same theory same theory don't realize that it's a redefinition don't realize that it's a redefinition don't realize that it's a redefinition so for example so for example so for example i i said in our little introduction that i i said in our little introduction that i i said in our little introduction that there have been many attempts since there have been many attempts since there have been many attempts since since we were kids to try to figure out since we were kids to try to figure out since we were kids to try to figure out a better way a better way a better way to define people's political positions to define people's political positions to define people's political positions other than this very limiting linear way

other than this very limiting linear way other than this very limiting linear way well there's one of the examples out well there's one of the examples out well there's one of the examples out there that was done is a person who there that was done is a person who there that was done is a person who decided to make decided to make decided to make the question of freedom the defining the question of freedom the defining the question of freedom the defining force so right so the political spectrum force so right so the political spectrum force so right so the political spectrum kind of plugs in x and y what you want kind of plugs in x and y what you want kind of plugs in x and y what you want and they can end up and they can end up and they can end up showing what you want to find depending showing what you want to find depending showing what you want to find depending on the parameters you choose on the parameters you choose on the parameters you choose so if you decide that freedom is going so if you decide that freedom is going so if you decide that freedom is going to be the basis for what moves the to be the basis for what moves the to be the basis for what moves the needle on your spectrum needle on your spectrum needle on your spectrum well then yes one direction might go in well then yes one direction might go in well then yes one direction might go in the direction of more free in another the direction of more free in another the direction of more free in another direction and less free direction and less free direction and less free in which case all the totalitarian in which case all the totalitarian in which case all the totalitarian systems regardless of their economic systems regardless of their economic systems regardless of their economic viewpoints or whatever viewpoints or whatever viewpoints or whatever belong on one end and as you said belong on one end and as you said belong on one end and as you said anarchism probably belongs on the other anarchism probably belongs on the other anarchism probably belongs on the other far extreme far extreme far extreme i don't have any problem with people i don't have any problem with people i don't have any problem with people redefining the political spectrum as redefining the political spectrum as redefining the political spectrum as long as they understand that that's what long as they understand that that's what long as they understand that that's what they've done they've done they've done well and also not using the wrong well and also not using the wrong well and also not using the wrong terminology because if we're using terminology because if we're using terminology because if we're using freedom i completely agree you can put freedom i completely agree you can put freedom i completely agree you can put an orgasm on one extreme you can put an orgasm on one extreme you can put an orgasm on one extreme you can put totalitarian totalitarian totalitarian ideologies at the other extreme but ideologies at the other extreme but ideologies at the other extreme but there's nothing left or right about this there's nothing left or right about this there's nothing left or right about this this is just a new way of looking at this is just a new way of looking at this is just a new way of looking at things so we shouldn't probably use the things so we shouldn't probably use the things so we shouldn't probably use the terms terms terms left wing right wing which traditionally left wing right wing which traditionally left wing right wing which traditionally a completely different meaning a completely different meaning a completely different meaning and plug them into a spectrum that just and plug them into a spectrum that just and plug them into a spectrum that just is something else entirely is something else entirely is something else entirely one let's understand too um a little bit one let's understand too um a little bit one let's understand too um a little bit about what the about what the about what the the differences of this always were sure the differences of this always were sure the differences of this always were sure um um um so for example when you go back to the so for example when you go back to the so for example when you go back to the original french version i mean those original french version i mean those original french version i mean those people that were sitting on the right people that were sitting on the right people that were sitting on the right side of the assembly those are side of the assembly those are side of the assembly those are monarchists right so monarchists right so monarchists right so so the extremes in the original system so the extremes in the original system so the extremes in the original system we're talking about here are people that we're talking about here are people that we're talking about here are people that support support support the church the aristocracy the monarchy

the church the aristocracy the monarchy the church the aristocracy the monarchy and the status quo the people on the and the status quo the people on the and the status quo the people on the left side until you got you know the the left side until you got you know the the left side until you got you know the the jacobins and all that jacobins and all that jacobins and all that were actually the equality liberty were actually the equality liberty were actually the equality liberty uh uh for laissez faire capitalism maybe uh uh for laissez faire capitalism maybe uh uh for laissez faire capitalism maybe you know take that with a grain of salt you know take that with a grain of salt you know take that with a grain of salt but by the standards of the time but by the standards of the time but by the standards of the time um and those things change with the um and those things change with the um and those things change with the times i mean certainly if we were going times i mean certainly if we were going times i mean certainly if we were going to talk about what left wing and right to talk about what left wing and right to talk about what left wing and right wing were in the 1930s it's going to be wing were in the 1930s it's going to be wing were in the 1930s it's going to be very different than what they were in very different than what they were in very different than what they were in the 1790s the 1790s the 1790s but i mean from that basis there are but i mean from that basis there are but i mean from that basis there are there are fundamental differences there are fundamental differences there are fundamental differences between between between um you know the views of the i mean let um you know the views of the i mean let um you know the views of the i mean let me give you an example sure so me give you an example sure so me give you an example sure so so when you look at the um the nazis one so when you look at the um the nazis one so when you look at the um the nazis one of the things that catches people up in of the things that catches people up in of the things that catches people up in the united states is the name the united states is the name the united states is the name the national socialist german workers the national socialist german workers the national socialist german workers party right so party right so party right so so for everyone out there who doesn't so for everyone out there who doesn't so for everyone out there who doesn't know it um if know it um if know it um if if we asked what the what kind of a if we asked what the what kind of a if we asked what the what kind of a government the north korean government government the north korean government government the north korean government of today was of today was of today was it's a hereditary dictatorship isn't it it's a hereditary dictatorship isn't it it's a hereditary dictatorship isn't it it's what it is right this is the guy in it's what it is right this is the guy in it's what it is right this is the guy in charge there is the third generation charge there is the third generation charge there is the third generation uh father-son grandfather of a uh father-son grandfather of a uh father-son grandfather of a dictatorial regime that that dictatorial regime that that dictatorial regime that that brooks no opposition and and has no has brooks no opposition and and has no has brooks no opposition and and has no has no legislative body with any power at no legislative body with any power at no legislative body with any power at all all all yet the official name of that country is yet the official name of that country is yet the official name of that country is the democratic people's republic the democratic people's republic the democratic people's republic of north korea that is marketing yeah of north korea that is marketing yeah of north korea that is marketing yeah right that is right that is right that is that is marketing that is exactly what that is marketing that is exactly what that is marketing that is exactly what the national social the national social the national social the german workers party is i mean to the german workers party is i mean to the german workers party is i mean to hitler and and his hitler and and his hitler and and his people the the nazi party of that early people the the nazi party of that early people the the nazi party of that early era era era workers was the same as voters and this

workers was the same as voters and this workers was the same as voters and this was a was a was a a political marketing attempt to try to a political marketing attempt to try to a political marketing attempt to try to swing voters and by the way swing voters and by the way swing voters and by the way the centrist party of germany in that the centrist party of germany in that the centrist party of germany in that time period had workers in their name so time period had workers in their name so time period had workers in their name so this is not an unusual thing this is not an unusual thing this is not an unusual thing and so that but that but americans get and so that but that but americans get and so that but that but americans get get so get so get so hyped up when they see the word hyped up when they see the word hyped up when they see the word socialist uh or workers socialist uh or workers socialist uh or workers that they automatically assume okay what that they automatically assume okay what that they automatically assume okay what we have here are bolsheviks which is we have here are bolsheviks which is we have here are bolsheviks which is nothing of the sword as a matter of fact nothing of the sword as a matter of fact nothing of the sword as a matter of fact i can't think of anyone more opposed to i can't think of anyone more opposed to i can't think of anyone more opposed to bolsheviks bolsheviks bolsheviks than nazis yeah i mean hitler blamed than nazis yeah i mean hitler blamed than nazis yeah i mean hitler blamed them them them you know built his whole platform in you know built his whole platform in you know built his whole platform in absolute opposition to communism absolute opposition to communism absolute opposition to communism he was he blamed socialist for he was he blamed socialist for he was he blamed socialist for contributing to germany losing world war contributing to germany losing world war contributing to germany losing world war one one one he you know or if you look at when he he you know or if you look at when he he you know or if you look at when he took power took power took power he got rid of the more left-leaning he got rid of the more left-leaning he got rid of the more left-leaning element where sympathizing with the nazi element where sympathizing with the nazi element where sympathizing with the nazi movement movement movement squashed them all with the knight of the squashed them all with the knight of the squashed them all with the knight of the long knives long knives long knives some of the first people he sent to some of the first people he sent to some of the first people he sent to labor camps were socialists so i mean labor camps were socialists so i mean labor camps were socialists so i mean it seemed like there's enough evidence it seemed like there's enough evidence it seemed like there's enough evidence there that there that there that the little market employing the name the little market employing the name the little market employing the name should be should be should be pretty obvious to everybody well and for pretty obvious to everybody well and for pretty obvious to everybody well and for those of you there are german scholars those of you there are german scholars those of you there are german scholars out there who realize i mean out there who realize i mean out there who realize i mean it's known as strasserism otto strasser it's known as strasserism otto strasser it's known as strasserism otto strasser was was was was part of the very early nazi parties was part of the very early nazi parties was part of the very early nazi parties uh uh uh let's just call it the philosophical let's just call it the philosophical let's just call it the philosophical wing for lack of a better word wing for lack of a better word wing for lack of a better word and he would have been more what and he would have been more what and he would have been more what americans think of when they americans think of when they americans think of when they accuse the nazis of being a socialist accuse the nazis of being a socialist accuse the nazis of being a socialist movement but he was purged movement but he was purged movement but he was purged uh early on i mean so that side of it i

uh early on i mean so that side of it i uh early on i mean so that side of it i mean hitler took over mean hitler took over mean hitler took over we would call it today a corporate shell we would call it today a corporate shell we would call it today a corporate shell he went in he went in he went in saw a a group of people who already were saw a a group of people who already were saw a a group of people who already were meeting i think there were like 20 of meeting i think there were like 20 of meeting i think there were like 20 of them he said in mein kampf them he said in mein kampf them he said in mein kampf and he went in there and stole their and he went in there and stole their and he went in there and stole their movement and and got rid of the things movement and and got rid of the things movement and and got rid of the things he didn't like but the name he didn't like but the name he didn't like but the name stuck um you know i have minecomp stuck um you know i have minecomp stuck um you know i have minecomp sitting here in front of me and you know sitting here in front of me and you know sitting here in front of me and you know i read it for our little conversation i read it for our little conversation i read it for our little conversation here for like the 15th time here for like the 15th time here for like the 15th time i always feel like people that call the i always feel like people that call the i always feel like people that call the nazis left wing have never read this nazis left wing have never read this nazis left wing have never read this book because hitler book because hitler book because hitler actually slams the left by name the left actually slams the left by name the left actually slams the left by name the left over and over and over again he says over and over and over again he says over and over and over again he says they chose red they chose red they chose red for the nazi flag colors just to piss for the nazi flag colors just to piss for the nazi flag colors just to piss off the [ __ ] off the [ __ ] off the [ __ ] right i mean we're stealing their stuff right i mean we're stealing their stuff right i mean we're stealing their stuff and we're rubbing it in their faces and we're rubbing it in their faces and we're rubbing it in their faces yeah it's like it literally if you open yeah it's like it literally if you open yeah it's like it literally if you open minecraft and read minecraft and read minecraft and read five pages it would all be clear right five pages it would all be clear right five pages it would all be clear right it wouldn't even be an issue so i it wouldn't even be an issue so i it wouldn't even be an issue so i again i find like some of these part of again i find like some of these part of again i find like some of these part of the reason why it bugs me a little is the reason why it bugs me a little is the reason why it bugs me a little is because i feel that it is a because i feel that it is a because i feel that it is a disingenuous attempt like that some of disingenuous attempt like that some of disingenuous attempt like that some of the people who have been pushing this the people who have been pushing this the people who have been pushing this notion notion notion are doing so not because they actually are doing so not because they actually are doing so not because they actually believe it but because it's a slander to believe it but because it's a slander to believe it but because it's a slander to call somebody a nazi or a fascist in the call somebody a nazi or a fascist in the call somebody a nazi or a fascist in the modern political climate so modern political climate so modern political climate so the idea becomes let's uh let's paint the idea becomes let's uh let's paint the idea becomes let's uh let's paint those guys as the nazis and fascists those guys as the nazis and fascists those guys as the nazis and fascists because then because then because then you know we score a point over them more you know we score a point over them more you know we score a point over them more because they actually believe it because because they actually believe it because because they actually believe it because if you actually believe it now you got a if you actually believe it now you got a if you actually believe it now you got a serious problem with really serious problem with really serious problem with really comprehension because it really doesn't comprehension because it really doesn't comprehension because it really doesn't take much to see the difference take much to see the difference take much to see the difference you know it's like well you see you you know it's like well you see you you know it's like well you see you jumped in front of where i was

jumped in front of where i was jumped in front of where i was i was going to set that whole cui bono i was going to set that whole cui bono i was going to set that whole cui bono thing up here like it because the more thing up here like it because the more thing up here like it because the more interesting question isn't interesting question isn't interesting question isn't were the nazis left winger right wing were the nazis left winger right wing were the nazis left winger right wing it's why does anybody care it's why does anybody care it's why does anybody care right right i mean wha what's the right right i mean wha what's the right right i mean wha what's the practical practical practical i mean you know we have arguments over i mean you know we have arguments over i mean you know we have arguments over this today and you go why this today and you go why this today and you go why i mean this is a a 75 year old issue the i mean this is a a 75 year old issue the i mean this is a a 75 year old issue the only reason it matters is how it applies only reason it matters is how it applies only reason it matters is how it applies to the modern political situation so to the modern political situation so to the modern political situation so there's a reason there's a reason there's a reason that tarring one side or the other with that tarring one side or the other with that tarring one side or the other with this label is important now this label is important now this label is important now to get back to our political spectrum to get back to our political spectrum to get back to our political spectrum when we were a kid in the united states when we were a kid in the united states when we were a kid in the united states again i can't speak for italy because again i can't speak for italy because again i can't speak for italy because when i went to italy as a kid when i went to italy as a kid when i went to italy as a kid they were they had a a red flag with a they were they had a a red flag with a they were they had a a red flag with a hammer and sickle on some of the hammer and sickle on some of the hammer and sickle on some of the buildings in rome so buildings in rome so buildings in rome so yeah there was like 30 percent of the yeah there was like 30 percent of the yeah there was like 30 percent of the country was communist or something country was communist or something country was communist or something exactly a little different than what i exactly a little different than what i exactly a little different than what i grew up with but but in this country grew up with but but in this country grew up with but but in this country the reason that we were taught that that the reason that we were taught that that the reason that we were taught that that the two extremes of the political system the two extremes of the political system the two extremes of the political system were bad was because you know this was were bad was because you know this was were bad was because you know this was to to teach us first to to teach us first to to teach us first let me back up in 1964 barry goldwater a let me back up in 1964 barry goldwater a let me back up in 1964 barry goldwater a senator from arizona ran for president senator from arizona ran for president senator from arizona ran for president against lyndon johnson against lyndon johnson against lyndon johnson uh barry goldwater is often labeled as uh barry goldwater is often labeled as uh barry goldwater is often labeled as the father of the modern conservative the father of the modern conservative the father of the modern conservative movement so where you get away from the movement so where you get away from the movement so where you get away from the country club republicans country club republicans country club republicans and you get down to the ronald reagan and you get down to the ronald reagan and you get down to the ronald reagan kind of republicans a very different kind of republicans a very different kind of republicans a very different sort of breed sort of breed sort of breed yeah those guys um you know uh yeah those guys um you know uh yeah those guys um you know uh um goldwater had famously said that um goldwater had famously said that um goldwater had famously said that extremism in the defense of liberty is extremism in the defense of liberty is extremism in the defense of liberty is no no no vice he's the kind of guy that would vice he's the kind of guy that would vice he's the kind of guy that would have approved of a political spectrum have approved of a political spectrum have approved of a political spectrum where liberty was what moved the needle

where liberty was what moved the needle where liberty was what moved the needle one way or the other one way or the other one way or the other um in in a case like goldwater um in in a case like goldwater um in in a case like goldwater um the idea that we can um the idea that we can um the idea that we can look at different movements in the look at different movements in the look at different movements in the united states as extreme united states as extreme united states as extreme it was a warning right don't go too far it was a warning right don't go too far it was a warning right don't go too far to the left because to the left because to the left because if you do you take the left leaning if you do you take the left leaning if you do you take the left leaning ideas that form something like ideas that form something like ideas that form something like liberalism liberalism liberalism and you take them to the extreme and you and you take them to the extreme and you and you take them to the extreme and you get to a dangerous territory like get to a dangerous territory like get to a dangerous territory like communism communism communism and if you take the right-wing views and if you take the right-wing views and if you take the right-wing views which you know would be a conservative which you know would be a conservative which you know would be a conservative political viewpoint america and you take political viewpoint america and you take political viewpoint america and you take them to extremes them to extremes them to extremes you end up with fascism well in the you end up with fascism well in the you end up with fascism well in the modern i mean i remember jonah goldberg modern i mean i remember jonah goldberg modern i mean i remember jonah goldberg wrote a book called liberal fascism and wrote a book called liberal fascism and wrote a book called liberal fascism and he's he's he's he he along with others try to trace a he he along with others try to trace a he he along with others try to trace a development development development that links liberalism to nazism as a way that links liberalism to nazism as a way that links liberalism to nazism as a way to to to warn you about the dangers of liberalism warn you about the dangers of liberalism warn you about the dangers of liberalism right this these people are on the road right this these people are on the road right this these people are on the road to nazism because nazism is the worst to nazism because nazism is the worst to nazism because nazism is the worst thing we can think of thing we can think of thing we can think of it's also a way you know to to to say it's also a way you know to to to say it's also a way you know to to to say that you know if you move farther and that you know if you move farther and that you know if you move farther and farther to the right farther to the right farther to the right there's no bad thing on the edge of that there's no bad thing on the edge of that there's no bad thing on the edge of that right in the old days you would say hey right in the old days you would say hey right in the old days you would say hey don't go too far to the right don't go too far to the right don't go too far to the right or it's bad for everybody well if you or it's bad for everybody well if you or it's bad for everybody well if you redefine the political spectrum so that redefine the political spectrum so that redefine the political spectrum so that the right has no connection to nasty the right has no connection to nasty the right has no connection to nasty political political political outcomes well then hey just moving outcomes well then hey just moving outcomes well then hey just moving farther to the right is always good farther to the right is always good farther to the right is always good right so there is right so there is right so there is you know i used to say to right wingers you know i used to say to right wingers you know i used to say to right wingers if we go farther to the right if we go farther to the right if we go farther to the right what happens that's bad does it ever what happens that's bad does it ever what happens that's bad does it ever reach a point that's negative reach a point that's negative reach a point that's negative and i think that's the qui bono part and i think that's the qui bono part and i think that's the qui bono part that there are people trying to redefine that there are people trying to redefine that there are people trying to redefine the idea the idea the idea that going to the extremes to the right that going to the extremes to the right that going to the extremes to the right side of the political spectrum have any

side of the political spectrum have any side of the political spectrum have any bad bad bad outcome at all um that to me is the outcome at all um that to me is the outcome at all um that to me is the problem so when problem so when problem so when when when goldwater said extremism and when when goldwater said extremism and when when goldwater said extremism and the defense of liberty is no vice the defense of liberty is no vice the defense of liberty is no vice this is the attitude that if you go to this is the attitude that if you go to this is the attitude that if you go to the extreme right the extreme right the extreme right there's nothing bad about that because there's nothing bad about that because there's nothing bad about that because we're going to get more free yeah we're going to get more free yeah we're going to get more free yeah no you're absolutely correct and i think no you're absolutely correct and i think no you're absolutely correct and i think that's exactly the issue with that's exactly the issue with that's exactly the issue with uh framing it as a left-right thing as uh framing it as a left-right thing as uh framing it as a left-right thing as opposed to totalitarianism versus opposed to totalitarianism versus opposed to totalitarianism versus freedom freedom freedom i understand totalitarianism versus i understand totalitarianism versus i understand totalitarianism versus individual rights that make perfect individual rights that make perfect individual rights that make perfect sense to me sense to me sense to me but don't plug it into a political model but don't plug it into a political model but don't plug it into a political model that doesn't reflect that at all because that doesn't reflect that at all because that doesn't reflect that at all because traditionally there have been traditionally there have been traditionally there have been extremely totalitarian left-wing extremely totalitarian left-wing extremely totalitarian left-wing movement and extremely totalitarian movement and extremely totalitarian movement and extremely totalitarian right-wing movement what makes them right-wing movement what makes them right-wing movement what makes them left-wing a right-wing left-wing a right-wing left-wing a right-wing is not how powerful the state is because is not how powerful the state is because is not how powerful the state is because again both sides did it again both sides did it again both sides did it it's other issues like for example in it's other issues like for example in it's other issues like for example in the case of the nazis the case of the nazis the case of the nazis a few of the things that clearly would a few of the things that clearly would a few of the things that clearly would mark them more on the right wing side of mark them more on the right wing side of mark them more on the right wing side of things and why things and why things and why people were more conservative supported people were more conservative supported people were more conservative supported them them them you had the desire to crash labor unions you had the desire to crash labor unions you had the desire to crash labor unions was a key thing that helped them was a key thing that helped them was a key thing that helped them be popular with some of the be popular with some of the be popular with some of the industrialist in germany industrialist in germany industrialist in germany the desire to go against minimum wage the desire to go against minimum wage the desire to go against minimum wage also big in terms of culture wars you also big in terms of culture wars you also big in terms of culture wars you know there was a whole wave of know there was a whole wave of know there was a whole wave of gay rights feminism more open sexuality gay rights feminism more open sexuality gay rights feminism more open sexuality that was sweeping in germany that was sweeping in germany that was sweeping in germany and that nazism was strongly preaching and that nazism was strongly preaching and that nazism was strongly preaching against against against so taking a more conservative attitude

so taking a more conservative attitude so taking a more conservative attitude in terms of uh even in terms of uh even in terms of uh even issues that would be recognized today as issues that would be recognized today as issues that would be recognized today as part of the culture wars so you know to part of the culture wars so you know to part of the culture wars so you know to me those are the things that stan that's me those are the things that stan that's me those are the things that stan that's what makes somebody what makes somebody what makes somebody in the in that case that and also sorry in the in that case that and also sorry in the in that case that and also sorry one thing that i forgot and that's one thing that i forgot and that's one thing that i forgot and that's probably the most important one of all probably the most important one of all probably the most important one of all is that the base of the whole nazi is that the base of the whole nazi is that the base of the whole nazi movement was built on nationalism and movement was built on nationalism and movement was built on nationalism and race race race whereas traditionally the other extreme whereas traditionally the other extreme whereas traditionally the other extreme you know the communists were all about you know the communists were all about you know the communists were all about the more international global the more international global the more international global perspective perspective perspective and class exactly you know the one was and class exactly you know the one was and class exactly you know the one was about class the other one was not the about class the other one was not the about class the other one was not the other one the focus was on other one the focus was on other one the focus was on race and nation one was hierarchical race and nation one was hierarchical race and nation one was hierarchical one was at least theoretically of course one was at least theoretically of course one was at least theoretically of course not in reality but at least theoretical not in reality but at least theoretical not in reality but at least theoretical in favor of equality in favor of equality in favor of equality one was heavily embedded with the one was heavily embedded with the one was heavily embedded with the traditional religious institutions the traditional religious institutions the traditional religious institutions the other one was a taste other one was a taste other one was a taste or pushing them or liberation theology or pushing them or liberation theology or pushing them or liberation theology if they ever flirted with religious if they ever flirted with religious if they ever flirted with religious ideas ideas ideas so i mean when you look at it in those so i mean when you look at it in those so i mean when you look at it in those terms they couldn't be more different terms they couldn't be more different terms they couldn't be more different despite the fact that they were both despite the fact that they were both despite the fact that they were both totalitarians who wanted a strong state totalitarians who wanted a strong state totalitarians who wanted a strong state well look at the company they keep well look at the company they keep well look at the company they keep that's always what what i i mean for that's always what what i i mean for that's always what what i i mean for domestically as you pointed out i mean domestically as you pointed out i mean domestically as you pointed out i mean the nazis were taking the nazis were taking the nazis were taking donations from big business i mean that donations from big business i mean that donations from big business i mean that the whole idea behind socialism is that the whole idea behind socialism is that the whole idea behind socialism is that the people on the means of production the people on the means of production the people on the means of production well i mean my goodness the the germans well i mean my goodness the the germans well i mean my goodness the the germans of the 1940s of the 1940s of the 1940s had companies like crop and had companies like crop and had companies like crop and messerschmitt and porsha and henschel messerschmitt and porsha and henschel messerschmitt and porsha and henschel and and i mean you know uh ig farben i and and i mean you know uh ig farben i and and i mean you know uh ig farben i mean the mean the mean the and those guys didn't go away uh that's

and those guys didn't go away uh that's and those guys didn't go away uh that's not at all like what you would see not at all like what you would see not at all like what you would see in a communist country and look at the in a communist country and look at the in a communist country and look at the allies that the germans had i mean allies that the germans had i mean allies that the germans had i mean you mentioned the italians but let's you mentioned the italians but let's you mentioned the italians but let's look at the the japanese look at the the japanese look at the the japanese i mean you could never spin the japanese i mean you could never spin the japanese i mean you could never spin the japanese as a left-wing regime as a left-wing regime as a left-wing regime under any system i mean that's a divine under any system i mean that's a divine under any system i mean that's a divine emperor system emperor system emperor system right um and you know i mean for these right um and you know i mean for these right um and you know i mean for these people that say that that people that say that that people that say that that dictatorships and that kind of lack of dictatorships and that kind of lack of dictatorships and that kind of lack of freedom is is left-wing freedom is is left-wing freedom is is left-wing well what was the czar of russia before well what was the czar of russia before well what was the czar of russia before the communists took over the communists took over the communists took over right i mean that is the ultimate right i mean that is the ultimate right i mean that is the ultimate right-wing regime by any stretch of the right-wing regime by any stretch of the right-wing regime by any stretch of the i mean that's that's right-wing by the i mean that's that's right-wing by the i mean that's that's right-wing by the french assembly definition of right wing french assembly definition of right wing french assembly definition of right wing right right right those are those are authoritarian those are those are authoritarian those are those are authoritarian monarchists monarchists monarchists the japanese are not going to ally with the japanese are not going to ally with the japanese are not going to ally with a left-wing regime a left-wing regime a left-wing regime look at francisco francisco franco look look at francisco francisco franco look look at francisco francisco franco look at all of the people that that at all of the people that that at all of the people that that fall into the the um the fascist orbit fall into the the um the fascist orbit fall into the the um the fascist orbit even you know juan peron even you know juan peron even you know juan peron in places like argentina later none of in places like argentina later none of in places like argentina later none of these people these people these people fit the socialist model even if the name fit the socialist model even if the name fit the socialist model even if the name national socialist seems to imply that national socialist seems to imply that national socialist seems to imply that that's what they are that's what they are that's what they are absolutely and i think that's what uh absolutely and i think that's what uh absolutely and i think that's what uh i find upsetting also i think for me i find upsetting also i think for me i find upsetting also i think for me there's a little bit of a personal there's a little bit of a personal there's a little bit of a personal element because you know when i think element because you know when i think element because you know when i think about about about just not long ago when i think about just not long ago when i think about just not long ago when i think about family history family history family history you know my grandmother was literally you know my grandmother was literally you know my grandmother was literally placing bomb to blow up fascists placing bomb to blow up fascists placing bomb to blow up fascists my you know there's a whole without even my you know there's a whole without even my you know there's a whole without even going into the whole family biography going into the whole family biography going into the whole family biography there's enough there where these were there's enough there where these were there's enough there where these were things that people things that people things that people felt very strongly about where it wasn't

felt very strongly about where it wasn't felt very strongly about where it wasn't like some like some like some academic philosophical debates about academic philosophical debates about academic philosophical debates about terminology and terminology and terminology and it was very real in terms of who your it was very real in terms of who your it was very real in terms of who your enemies are and who they aren't enemies are and who they aren't enemies are and who they aren't and so this effort to muddle the waters and so this effort to muddle the waters and so this effort to muddle the waters i find it uh i find it uh i find it uh really insulting ultimately because it's really insulting ultimately because it's really insulting ultimately because it's kind of like changing history to suit kind of like changing history to suit kind of like changing history to suit the ones or need the ones or need the ones or need in the present it's not unusual either i in the present it's not unusual either i in the present it's not unusual either i remember when i was on the radio in the remember when i was on the radio in the remember when i was on the radio in the 1990s here in oregon 1990s here in oregon 1990s here in oregon um there was a group called the oregon um there was a group called the oregon um there was a group called the oregon citizens alliance and they were an citizens alliance and they were an citizens alliance and they were an anti-gay group i don't even know if anti-gay group i don't even know if anti-gay group i don't even know if they're still around but they're still around but they're still around but but one of their members wrote a book but one of their members wrote a book but one of their members wrote a book called the pink swastika called the pink swastika called the pink swastika and the whole point was the same thing and the whole point was the same thing and the whole point was the same thing you're seeing in the modern day world you're seeing in the modern day world you're seeing in the modern day world where people are trying to link nazism where people are trying to link nazism where people are trying to link nazism to uh to the to the current american to uh to the to the current american to uh to the to the current american left as a way to left as a way to left as a way to uh tar and feather them in this case uh tar and feather them in this case uh tar and feather them in this case this anti-gay group was trying to link this anti-gay group was trying to link this anti-gay group was trying to link nazism to gay rights as a way to tar and nazism to gay rights as a way to tar and nazism to gay rights as a way to tar and feather them i mean the nazis have feather them i mean the nazis have feather them i mean the nazis have become the wonderful and i use them in become the wonderful and i use them in become the wonderful and i use them in my own show this way because they are my own show this way because they are my own show this way because they are the benchmark for evil the benchmark for evil the benchmark for evil right but i mean i mean like for example right but i mean i mean like for example right but i mean i mean like for example i have a quote here from from a story i have a quote here from from a story i have a quote here from from a story that i that i that i that i uh printed out for this that i uh printed out for this that i uh printed out for this discussion today and uh it's from some discussion today and uh it's from some discussion today and uh it's from some historians who are talking about the historians who are talking about the historians who are talking about the same thing we're talking about same thing we're talking about same thing we're talking about and they were explaining let me read the and they were explaining let me read the and they were explaining let me read the the the post because it the the post because it the the post because it they're talking about all these they're talking about all these they're talking about all these different right wing writers that have different right wing writers that have different right wing writers that have tried to redefine tried to redefine tried to redefine nazism as a movement of the left as a nazism as a movement of the left as a nazism as a movement of the left as a way to tar and feather modern way to tar and feather modern way to tar and feather modern people on the left and they wrote as a people on the left and they wrote as a people on the left and they wrote as a concluding line this concluding line this concluding line this they wrote herewith we come to the they wrote herewith we come to the they wrote herewith we come to the effect if not the point

effect if not the point effect if not the point of the revisionist exposition it is not of the revisionist exposition it is not of the revisionist exposition it is not only to transfer the stigma of the only to transfer the stigma of the only to transfer the stigma of the second world wars genocidal violence second world wars genocidal violence second world wars genocidal violence from the right from the right from the right to the left so that criticisms of to the left so that criticisms of to the left so that criticisms of radicalized populism can be dismissed as radicalized populism can be dismissed as radicalized populism can be dismissed as leftist fascism leftist fascism leftist fascism it's also to suggest that the war was a it's also to suggest that the war was a it's also to suggest that the war was a crusade against state collectivism of crusade against state collectivism of crusade against state collectivism of all types all types all types including the welfare state for which including the welfare state for which including the welfare state for which many westerners in fact many westerners in fact many westerners in fact fought they reasoned by means of a fought they reasoned by means of a fought they reasoned by means of a simplistic simplistic simplistic ahistorical syllogism since socialism is ahistorical syllogism since socialism is ahistorical syllogism since socialism is statism slash collectivism statism slash collectivism statism slash collectivism like public health and public transport like public health and public transport like public health and public transport and nazism was statist and collectivist and nazism was statist and collectivist and nazism was statist and collectivist and promoted public health and public and promoted public health and public and promoted public health and public transport social democratic public transport social democratic public transport social democratic public health health health and public transport measures must be and public transport measures must be and public transport measures must be fascist fascist fascist in other words if if you have a and we in other words if if you have a and we in other words if if you have a and we have a have a have a you're all a right um and and that to me you're all a right um and and that to me you're all a right um and and that to me is what is what is what is what is what is what becomes a sneaky little debating trick becomes a sneaky little debating trick becomes a sneaky little debating trick is the best way to put it because is the best way to put it because is the best way to put it because anybody who's read minecomp anybody who's read minecomp anybody who's read minecomp and thinks that hitler would put up with and thinks that hitler would put up with and thinks that hitler would put up with being called leftist being called leftist being called leftist hasn't really read the book very hasn't really read the book very hasn't really read the book very carefully absolutely carefully absolutely carefully absolutely and i think and i think it really boils and i think and i think it really boils and i think and i think it really boils down to i believe that there are people down to i believe that there are people down to i believe that there are people who honestly read these things today and who honestly read these things today and who honestly read these things today and believe it believe it believe it probably because they haven't really probably because they haven't really probably because they haven't really read enough before read enough before read enough before but i think a lot of the people who are but i think a lot of the people who are but i think a lot of the people who are putting this stuff out are doing so putting this stuff out are doing so putting this stuff out are doing so in a very disingenuous matter not in a very disingenuous matter not in a very disingenuous matter not because they believe it but purely as a because they believe it but purely as a because they believe it but purely as a political weapon to use political weapon to use political weapon to use in their political fights today and in their political fights today and in their political fights today and and again you know if we want to throw and again you know if we want to throw and again you know if we want to throw out completely left-wing

out completely left-wing out completely left-wing right-wing i'm all for it because i right-wing i'm all for it because i right-wing i'm all for it because i agree i'm interested in policies that agree i'm interested in policies that agree i'm interested in policies that increase the degree of individual increase the degree of individual increase the degree of individual freedom and increase ultimately freedom and increase ultimately freedom and increase ultimately interesting policy that help the quality interesting policy that help the quality interesting policy that help the quality of human life of human life of human life i don't care where they come from you i don't care where they come from you i don't care where they come from you know so if you want to throw that out know so if you want to throw that out know so if you want to throw that out completely completely completely i have no problems with it but not i have no problems with it but not i have no problems with it but not redefining existing terms according to redefining existing terms according to redefining existing terms according to what benefits somebody in terms of their what benefits somebody in terms of their what benefits somebody in terms of their own political fights because that just own political fights because that just own political fights because that just dishonest that's something else entirely dishonest that's something else entirely dishonest that's something else entirely well and you know it's worth bringing up well and you know it's worth bringing up well and you know it's worth bringing up what i think is a key ingredient in the what i think is a key ingredient in the what i think is a key ingredient in the whole thing that isn't talked about whole thing that isn't talked about whole thing that isn't talked about enough and that's the fact that enough and that's the fact that enough and that's the fact that you know much of the comparison between you know much of the comparison between you know much of the comparison between the nazis the nazis the nazis and the communist involves joseph stalin and the communist involves joseph stalin and the communist involves joseph stalin he's a bit of a white you know in other he's a bit of a white you know in other he's a bit of a white you know in other words instead of bolshevism we're words instead of bolshevism we're words instead of bolshevism we're getting a little deep into the woods getting a little deep into the woods getting a little deep into the woods here but you have stalinism here but you have stalinism here but you have stalinism there's a decent number of historians there's a decent number of historians there's a decent number of historians that think that joseph stalin wasn't that think that joseph stalin wasn't that think that joseph stalin wasn't really a communist that he hid behind really a communist that he hid behind really a communist that he hid behind the communist the communist the communist sort of um uh uh doctrine but was and sort of um uh uh doctrine but was and sort of um uh uh doctrine but was and i'm quoting here an old style i'm quoting here an old style i'm quoting here an old style oriental despot in which case oriental despot in which case oriental despot in which case that makes him yes more like a hitler or that makes him yes more like a hitler or that makes him yes more like a hitler or a mussolini a mussolini a mussolini but you can't call him a communist then but you can't call him a communist then but you can't call him a communist then right he's just an old style dictator right he's just an old style dictator right he's just an old style dictator right right with a facade of communism right right with a facade of communism right right with a facade of communism because communism because communism because communism for all its faults was not supposed to for all its faults was not supposed to for all its faults was not supposed to be a dictatorship there was going to be be a dictatorship there was going to be be a dictatorship there was going to be a dictatorship of the proletariat stage a dictatorship of the proletariat stage a dictatorship of the proletariat stage but decisions weren't supposed to be in but decisions weren't supposed to be in but decisions weren't supposed to be in the hands of one guy who like hitler the hands of one guy who like hitler the hands of one guy who like hitler called called called every shot now the fact that it actually

every shot now the fact that it actually every shot now the fact that it actually works out that way in works out that way in works out that way in soviet union in red china in uh soviet union in red china in uh soviet union in red china in uh in the the khmer rouge in cambodia in the the khmer rouge in cambodia in the the khmer rouge in cambodia yeah that's a different that's an actual yeah that's a different that's an actual yeah that's a different that's an actual interesting point of its own interesting point of its own interesting point of its own but that's not what it's supposed to be but that's not what it's supposed to be but that's not what it's supposed to be like and so those who say that communism like and so those who say that communism like and so those who say that communism and nazism are very similar and nazism are very similar and nazism are very similar it might be less because hitler's like a it might be less because hitler's like a it might be less because hitler's like a communist and more because stalin's like communist and more because stalin's like communist and more because stalin's like a nazi a nazi a nazi right no in fact and i think that's right no in fact and i think that's right no in fact and i think that's where that's where the whole where that's where the whole where that's where the whole conversation gets interesting where the conversation gets interesting where the conversation gets interesting where the examples examples examples are and i think that the one you brought are and i think that the one you brought are and i think that the one you brought up is a very interesting one in its own up is a very interesting one in its own up is a very interesting one in its own and maybe another time we can explore it and maybe another time we can explore it and maybe another time we can explore it you know the you know the you know the why an ideology that in theory is why an ideology that in theory is why an ideology that in theory is preaching this radical equality preaching this radical equality preaching this radical equality turns out to be monstrously hierarchical turns out to be monstrously hierarchical turns out to be monstrously hierarchical despite saying no no we are all equal despite saying no no we are all equal despite saying no no we are all equal when obviously you know anybody can see when obviously you know anybody can see when obviously you know anybody can see through it it was crap it was just through it it was crap it was just through it it was crap it was just something to hide behind something to hide behind something to hide behind that that becomes in fact one of the that that becomes in fact one of the that that becomes in fact one of the contradictions in that movement that's contradictions in that movement that's contradictions in that movement that's interesting to explore and i love interesting to explore and i love interesting to explore and i love churchill's line about the churchill's line about the churchill's line about the the equalization of misery yeah right the equalization of misery yeah right the equalization of misery yeah right exactly exactly exactly and and then it's even that like that and and then it's even that like that and and then it's even that like that clearly would not be a good scenario but clearly would not be a good scenario but clearly would not be a good scenario but even that's not real because it's not even that's not real because it's not even that's not real because it's not really equal you know the guy really equal you know the guy really equal you know the guy the last guy in the soviet union and the last guy in the soviet union and the last guy in the soviet union and stalin are gonna have a very different stalin are gonna have a very different stalin are gonna have a very different lifestyles you know they are not in the lifestyles you know they are not in the lifestyles you know they are not in the same boat at all same boat at all same boat at all so yeah fascinating and i guess one so yeah fascinating and i guess one so yeah fascinating and i guess one thing i wanna i don't know if thing i wanna i don't know if thing i wanna i don't know if you wanna add anything to this or do you you wanna add anything to this or do you you wanna add anything to this or do you mind if i mind if i mind if i switch slightly in the conversation i switch slightly in the conversation i switch slightly in the conversation i know but but it's worth pointing out one

know but but it's worth pointing out one know but but it's worth pointing out one thing and you brought it up earlier and thing and you brought it up earlier and thing and you brought it up earlier and that's this question of equality that's this question of equality that's this question of equality um whether or not it's possible and um whether or not it's possible and um whether or not it's possible and whether or not that's actually what the whether or not that's actually what the whether or not that's actually what the bolsheviks bolsheviks bolsheviks or the red chinese or the khmer rouge or the red chinese or the khmer rouge or the red chinese or the khmer rouge were actually out to do were actually out to do were actually out to do that is a key plank in the the that is a key plank in the the that is a key plank in the the communist socialist uh world view communist socialist uh world view communist socialist uh world view whereas the nazis did not believe in whereas the nazis did not believe in whereas the nazis did not believe in equality they specifically believed in equality they specifically believed in equality they specifically believed in the opposite the opposite the opposite the ubermensch concept basically that the ubermensch concept basically that the ubermensch concept basically that there there are master people and there there there are master people and there there there are master people and there are subject people are subject people are subject people what's more communism and socialism have what's more communism and socialism have what's more communism and socialism have this you know you remember the phrase this you know you remember the phrase this you know you remember the phrase right workers of the world right workers of the world right workers of the world unite right every everybody who wasn't unite right every everybody who wasn't unite right every everybody who wasn't of the ruling class around the world of the ruling class around the world of the ruling class around the world was part of the potential convert pool was part of the potential convert pool was part of the potential convert pool the nazis are race oriented to them the nazis are race oriented to them the nazis are race oriented to them being part of the convert pool had being part of the convert pool had being part of the convert pool had nothing to do with your ideology nothing to do with your ideology nothing to do with your ideology it had to do with your blood and so i it had to do with your blood and so i it had to do with your blood and so i mean this this mean this this mean this this the idea this is a problem americans the idea this is a problem americans the idea this is a problem americans have with terminology and that's why i have with terminology and that's why i have with terminology and that's why i use the the people's republic the use the the people's republic the use the the people's republic the democratic people's republic of north democratic people's republic of north democratic people's republic of north korea korea korea to start with you got to get past the to start with you got to get past the to start with you got to get past the national national national you know socialist uh workers party name you know socialist uh workers party name you know socialist uh workers party name in the nazis in the nazis in the nazis party i mean the national socialist party i mean the national socialist party i mean the national socialist thing too many people buy that at face thing too many people buy that at face thing too many people buy that at face value value value if you took that out of the equation and if you took that out of the equation and if you took that out of the equation and you just looked at the beliefs you just looked at the beliefs you just looked at the beliefs this is how you know so many people are this is how you know so many people are this is how you know so many people are just parroting what they hear from let's just parroting what they hear from let's just parroting what they hear from let's call them call them call them influencers rather than doing their own influencers rather than doing their own influencers rather than doing their own research because research because research because it really doesn't stand up to historical it really doesn't stand up to historical it really doesn't stand up to historical scrutiny and it's hard to find a lot of scrutiny and it's hard to find a lot of scrutiny and it's hard to find a lot of historians who'll back you up on the historians who'll back you up on the historians who'll back you up on the idea of the nazis

idea of the nazis idea of the nazis as a left-wing group and as we said if as a left-wing group and as we said if as a left-wing group and as we said if they're a left-wing group what the heck they're a left-wing group what the heck they're a left-wing group what the heck are they hanging out with all these are they hanging out with all these are they hanging out with all these right-wing countries yeah exactly right-wing countries yeah exactly right-wing countries yeah exactly it's just yeah that's why it really it's just yeah that's why it really it's just yeah that's why it really makes no sense on makes no sense on makes no sense on every level and i'm glad to chat with every level and i'm glad to chat with every level and i'm glad to chat with you about it to sort of you about it to sort of you about it to sort of help clarify because i'm sure there are help clarify because i'm sure there are help clarify because i'm sure there are a lot of very nice sweet listeners a lot of very nice sweet listeners a lot of very nice sweet listeners who have bought into it because they who have bought into it because they who have bought into it because they have just heard it enough times have just heard it enough times have just heard it enough times uh so that's why i think laying down uh so that's why i think laying down uh so that's why i think laying down some actual some actual some actual facts you know laying down some actual facts you know laying down some actual facts you know laying down some actual evidence in that regard is very evidence in that regard is very evidence in that regard is very important because otherwise this is uh important because otherwise this is uh important because otherwise this is uh oh god sir well i was just going to say oh god sir well i was just going to say oh god sir well i was just going to say here's what's interesting to me though here's what's interesting to me though here's what's interesting to me though to wrap this conversation up we started to wrap this conversation up we started to wrap this conversation up we started with the qui bono idea that you know the with the qui bono idea that you know the with the qui bono idea that you know the who benefits right who benefits right who benefits right i'm i'd be interested in who's angry i'm i'd be interested in who's angry i'm i'd be interested in who's angry that we're pushing this point of view that we're pushing this point of view that we're pushing this point of view right and why are they angry right and why are they angry right and why are they angry um so so i mean to me it arguing about um so so i mean to me it arguing about um so so i mean to me it arguing about where the nazis stood in the political where the nazis stood in the political where the nazis stood in the political spectrum is 75 year old news spectrum is 75 year old news spectrum is 75 year old news having somebody get angry at you today having somebody get angry at you today having somebody get angry at you today because of where you say the nazis are because of where you say the nazis are because of where you say the nazis are in the political spectrums much more in the political spectrums much more in the political spectrums much more interesting to me interesting to me interesting to me that that's that gets deep into the that that's that gets deep into the that that's that gets deep into the psyche of not just psyche of not just psyche of not just american politics right now but let's american politics right now but let's american politics right now but let's call it politics in the entire western call it politics in the entire western call it politics in the entire western world world world well and that reminds me this is well and that reminds me this is well and that reminds me this is actually funny because you got into it actually funny because you got into it actually funny because you got into it as well i remember a few months ago as well i remember a few months ago as well i remember a few months ago i tweeted this image that i found i tweeted this image that i found i tweeted this image that i found scaringly chilling where there was this scaringly chilling where there was this scaringly chilling where there was this image of these image of these image of these guards at auschwitz having a picnic and guards at auschwitz having a picnic and guards at auschwitz having a picnic and all all all laughing all happily and so you see

laughing all happily and so you see laughing all happily and so you see these people and they all seem like these people and they all seem like these people and they all seem like sweet nice young german people and then sweet nice young german people and then sweet nice young german people and then you remember that they are the guards at you remember that they are the guards at you remember that they are the guards at outfits so outfits so outfits so you know the ultimate image to display you know the ultimate image to display you know the ultimate image to display the banality of evil the banality of evil the banality of evil now you would figure that that would be now you would figure that that would be now you would figure that that would be a relatively uncontroversial thing in a relatively uncontroversial thing in a relatively uncontroversial thing in the sense that we understand that yeah the sense that we understand that yeah the sense that we understand that yeah ordinary people do horrible stuff we ordinary people do horrible stuff we ordinary people do horrible stuff we understand understand understand yes the nazis did horrible things clear yes the nazis did horrible things clear yes the nazis did horrible things clear enough right we're talking about 1945 enough right we're talking about 1945 enough right we're talking about 1945 not and sadly there was a whole storm of not and sadly there was a whole storm of not and sadly there was a whole storm of angry people about why aren't you angry people about why aren't you angry people about why aren't you showing the showing the showing the the communist guards if you show these the communist guards if you show these the communist guards if you show these why aren't you and he was just like whoa why aren't you and he was just like whoa why aren't you and he was just like whoa whoa whoa where does this even come from whoa whoa where does this even come from whoa whoa where does this even come from and you know and it was clearly an and you know and it was clearly an and you know and it was clearly an effort of uh you know we need to score a effort of uh you know we need to score a effort of uh you know we need to score a point for our team kind of thing point for our team kind of thing point for our team kind of thing even though if you ask them nobody would even though if you ask them nobody would even though if you ask them nobody would say no i'm defending the nazis but say no i'm defending the nazis but say no i'm defending the nazis but that's kind of where he was he was still that's kind of where he was he was still that's kind of where he was he was still framed in a left-wing right-wing fashion framed in a left-wing right-wing fashion framed in a left-wing right-wing fashion and he's weird because i mean i get the and he's weird because i mean i get the and he's weird because i mean i get the feeling that your feeling that your feeling that your hiatus from common sense has a bit to do hiatus from common sense has a bit to do hiatus from common sense has a bit to do with the with the with the modern political situation where if you modern political situation where if you modern political situation where if you say that the sun is out say that the sun is out say that the sun is out immediately you're gonna have people immediately you're gonna have people immediately you're gonna have people from all sorts of sights yelling at you from all sorts of sights yelling at you from all sorts of sights yelling at you that that that how dare you say that the sun is out the how dare you say that the sun is out the how dare you say that the sun is out the sun is not out what are you talking sun is not out what are you talking sun is not out what are you talking about about about and that there's such a degree of and that there's such a degree of and that there's such a degree of functionalism in modern politics functionalism in modern politics functionalism in modern politics that you cannot say even the most that you cannot say even the most that you cannot say even the most obvious thing the stuff that's like obvious thing the stuff that's like obvious thing the stuff that's like saying two and two equal four saying two and two equal four saying two and two equal four you can barely say that without it being you can barely say that without it being you can barely say that without it being perceived as either promoting

perceived as either promoting perceived as either promoting one camp or another which automatically one camp or another which automatically one camp or another which automatically means that 50 percent of the other means that 50 percent of the other means that 50 percent of the other 50 of the people are gonna hit your guts 50 of the people are gonna hit your guts 50 of the people are gonna hit your guts well let me even take it one step well let me even take it one step well let me even take it one step farther in the contradiction if the farther in the contradiction if the farther in the contradiction if the people that said that to you really people that said that to you really people that said that to you really believe the nazis are a left-wing believe the nazis are a left-wing believe the nazis are a left-wing movement and they're coming at this from movement and they're coming at this from movement and they're coming at this from a right-wing point of view a right-wing point of view a right-wing point of view why on earth would they care right i why on earth would they care right i why on earth would they care right i mean theoretically you're just making mean theoretically you're just making mean theoretically you're just making their point for them right the nazis are their point for them right the nazis are their point for them right the nazis are evil that's right those left-wing nazis evil that's right those left-wing nazis evil that's right those left-wing nazis are evil are evil are evil but those are people who think the nazis but those are people who think the nazis but those are people who think the nazis are on the left but get mad when you're are on the left but get mad when you're are on the left but get mad when you're not giving equal time to the crimes of not giving equal time to the crimes of not giving equal time to the crimes of the bolsheviks the bolsheviks the bolsheviks that doesn't make sense right there so that doesn't make sense right there so that doesn't make sense right there so if you say why did dan give up his if you say why did dan give up his if you say why did dan give up his current event show temporarily maybe current event show temporarily maybe current event show temporarily maybe um it's because if how do you even deal um it's because if how do you even deal um it's because if how do you even deal with such basic contradictions that the with such basic contradictions that the with such basic contradictions that the people who are making them don't see people who are making them don't see people who are making them don't see i i don't know how to have a i i don't know how to have a i i don't know how to have a conversation with people who don't conversation with people who don't conversation with people who don't recognize recognize recognize such a basic contradiction and i think such a basic contradiction and i think such a basic contradiction and i think that's the problem that's the problem that's the problem that um it's hard to that um it's hard to that um it's hard to to even have a public discourse and i to even have a public discourse and i to even have a public discourse and i mean social media doesn't help because mean social media doesn't help because mean social media doesn't help because of course you're not sitting in front of of course you're not sitting in front of of course you're not sitting in front of somebody where you can pick up body somebody where you can pick up body somebody where you can pick up body language and other things or that language and other things or that language and other things or that are more likely to make you less are more likely to make you less are more likely to make you less aggressive aggressive aggressive but still the point being we hear this but still the point being we hear this but still the point being we hear this uh it's very hard to have any kind of uh it's very hard to have any kind of uh it's very hard to have any kind of conversation when immediately people conversation when immediately people conversation when immediately people start yelling at each other and are just start yelling at each other and are just start yelling at each other and are just looking looking looking for a reason to score a point for their for a reason to score a point for their for a reason to score a point for their team team team and it doesn't even apply to politics and it doesn't even apply to politics and it doesn't even apply to politics almost it seems to apply like almost it seems to apply like almost it seems to apply like any topic seems good enough to start a any topic seems good enough to start a any topic seems good enough to start a fight about

fight about fight about and i'm not sure if this is a result of and i'm not sure if this is a result of and i'm not sure if this is a result of alienation of people not seeing each alienation of people not seeing each alienation of people not seeing each other face to face other face to face other face to face if it's i'm not sure what it is a result if it's i'm not sure what it is a result if it's i'm not sure what it is a result of and i would be of and i would be of and i would be curious to hear your opinion but i curious to hear your opinion but i curious to hear your opinion but i definitely see it and i can see why definitely see it and i can see why definitely see it and i can see why doing a show like common sense may not doing a show like common sense may not doing a show like common sense may not seem seem seem like the happiest prospect in the world like the happiest prospect in the world like the happiest prospect in the world for you for you for you when anything you're gonna say you're when anything you're gonna say you're when anything you're gonna say you're gonna get yelled at gonna get yelled at gonna get yelled at well you know it is interesting to me well you know it is interesting to me well you know it is interesting to me that that that that that that in these particular times that we live in these particular times that we live in these particular times that we live in in in to to be someone who tries to see both to to be someone who tries to see both to to be someone who tries to see both sides sides sides is seen by both sides as somehow is seen by both sides as somehow is seen by both sides as somehow validating or enabling evil on the other validating or enabling evil on the other validating or enabling evil on the other side right side right side right if you aren't 100 condemning the other if you aren't 100 condemning the other if you aren't 100 condemning the other side you're part of the problem side you're part of the problem side you're part of the problem well that's not the world i inhabit well that's not the world i inhabit well that's not the world i inhabit right we started that program as a way right we started that program as a way right we started that program as a way to find things that we had in common to find things that we had in common to find things that we had in common so that we could solve common problems so that we could solve common problems so that we could solve common problems that both the right and the left would that both the right and the left would that both the right and the left would agree upon things like you know agree upon things like you know agree upon things like you know a need for government corruption reform a need for government corruption reform a need for government corruption reform stuff like that stuff like that stuff like that you know i will say though let me push you know i will say though let me push you know i will say though let me push back a little on this idea about back a little on this idea about back a little on this idea about division division division or uh the anger or the lack of ability or uh the anger or the lack of ability or uh the anger or the lack of ability to have a civil conversation because at to have a civil conversation because at to have a civil conversation because at least in the united states i think we least in the united states i think we least in the united states i think we have a long history of that have a long history of that have a long history of that um you know i don't i don't i don't um you know i don't i don't i don't um you know i don't i don't i don't think there was some golden age where we think there was some golden age where we think there was some golden age where we could have these wonderful calm could have these wonderful calm could have these wonderful calm discussions about politics people always discussions about politics people always discussions about politics people always would get would get would get i mean there's a reason that they say i mean there's a reason that they say i mean there's a reason that they say there's a few things you shouldn't there's a few things you shouldn't there's a few things you shouldn't discuss at dinner religion sex politics discuss at dinner religion sex politics discuss at dinner religion sex politics right um so i mean i think people have right um so i mean i think people have right um so i mean i think people have always gotten worked up over that always gotten worked up over that always gotten worked up over that but if you go back and you look at the

but if you go back and you look at the but if you go back and you look at the kind of arguments and once again kind of arguments and once again kind of arguments and once again you know the average folks in the middle you know the average folks in the middle you know the average folks in the middle of the country uh of the country uh of the country uh weren't writing long uh intelligentsia weren't writing long uh intelligentsia weren't writing long uh intelligentsia sort of college type treaties on this sort of college type treaties on this sort of college type treaties on this but it does seem to my but it does seem to my but it does seem to my naked eye that the conversations were naked eye that the conversations were naked eye that the conversations were held held held one on a higher plane so that you're one on a higher plane so that you're one on a higher plane so that you're really discussing really discussing really discussing issues as opposed to the the hyperbole issues as opposed to the the hyperbole issues as opposed to the the hyperbole and name calling we do now and name calling we do now and name calling we do now i also think and you know this is i also think and you know this is i also think and you know this is another topic too i think we miss having another topic too i think we miss having another topic too i think we miss having a common sense a common sense a common sense a common common a common framework of a common common a common framework of a common common a common framework of reference let's let's call it truth reference let's let's call it truth reference let's let's call it truth while understanding that there never was while understanding that there never was while understanding that there never was any truth any truth any truth um but to be able to cite sources in an um but to be able to cite sources in an um but to be able to cite sources in an argument used to be argument used to be argument used to be really valuable whether or not we really really valuable whether or not we really really valuable whether or not we really believe the sources believe the sources believe the sources nowadays i mean the media is in such nowadays i mean the media is in such nowadays i mean the media is in such disarray the disarray the disarray the the the people who you used to rely on the the people who you used to rely on the the people who you used to rely on to provide at least some window to provide at least some window to provide at least some window even if it was a flawed window into even if it was a flawed window into even if it was a flawed window into reality are so reality are so reality are so disorganized disoriented and um and disorganized disoriented and um and disorganized disoriented and um and let's let you know i mean totally let's let you know i mean totally let's let you know i mean totally uh uh their reputations are in tatters uh uh their reputations are in tatters uh uh their reputations are in tatters that that leaves nothing to a that that leaves nothing to a that that leaves nothing to a conversation but conversation but conversation but name-calling and and whatnot i mean what name-calling and and whatnot i mean what name-calling and and whatnot i mean what facts would you argue with you have your facts would you argue with you have your facts would you argue with you have your facts and i have my facts and they never facts and i have my facts and they never facts and i have my facts and they never come come come you know they never they never cross you know they never they never cross you know they never they never cross over you know yeah what was that uh rudy over you know yeah what was that uh rudy over you know yeah what was that uh rudy giuliani's line giuliani's line giuliani's line through is not true no what is that he through is not true no what is that he through is not true no what is that he said something along those lines that said something along those lines that said something along those lines that was like the most was like the most was like the most postmodern statement i've ever heard postmodern statement i've ever heard postmodern statement i've ever heard where he was just where he was just where he was just and it's a knowledge in the fact that and it's a knowledge in the fact that and it's a knowledge in the fact that yes there basically is no agreement on

yes there basically is no agreement on yes there basically is no agreement on objective truth objective truth objective truth that uh the death of investigative that uh the death of investigative that uh the death of investigative journalism because that's what you know journalism because that's what you know journalism because that's what you know as many as many as many amazing things as internet has brought amazing things as internet has brought amazing things as internet has brought has also brought to that of has also brought to that of has also brought to that of investigative journalism because investigative journalism because investigative journalism because you know nobody has the money to spend you know nobody has the money to spend you know nobody has the money to spend to make it happen to make it happen to make it happen in an environment where people are in an environment where people are in an environment where people are reading stuff online and are not buying reading stuff online and are not buying reading stuff online and are not buying newspapers anymore and all of that newspapers anymore and all of that newspapers anymore and all of that there is no commonly agreed set of facts there is no commonly agreed set of facts there is no commonly agreed set of facts it's all uh it's all that that's why it's all uh it's all that that's why it's all uh it's all that that's why people can people can people can i mean people have always made a i mean people have always made a i mean people have always made a propaganda but there was a little bit of propaganda but there was a little bit of propaganda but there was a little bit of fat checking going on fat checking going on fat checking going on now i think anything you quote now i think anything you quote now i think anything you quote automatically people are going to say automatically people are going to say automatically people are going to say that's not a good source screw it that's not a good source screw it that's not a good source screw it i'm not going to listen to it that just i'm not going to listen to it that just i'm not going to listen to it that just no no no no no no no no no i have my fingers in my ears that's just i have my fingers in my ears that's just i have my fingers in my ears that's just a bad source a bad source a bad source or at least you could quote somebody who or at least you could quote somebody who or at least you could quote somebody who you read right you may say i don't agree you read right you may say i don't agree you read right you may say i don't agree with what you're saying because with what you're saying because with what you're saying because you know i was just reading this book by you know i was just reading this book by you know i was just reading this book by so-and-so and he said i mean the so-and-so and he said i mean the so-and-so and he said i mean the discussions don't happen discussions don't happen discussions don't happen at that level um it's you know it's at that level um it's you know it's at that level um it's you know it's funny because when i was in talk radio funny because when i was in talk radio funny because when i was in talk radio they used to say that you can't ever they used to say that you can't ever they used to say that you can't ever delve any lower beneath the surface than delve any lower beneath the surface than delve any lower beneath the surface than the very surface issues because you have the very surface issues because you have the very surface issues because you have to assume your audience to assume your audience to assume your audience is turning over all the time people are is turning over all the time people are is turning over all the time people are getting in and out of their cars and getting in and out of their cars and getting in and out of their cars and whatnot so you always have to keep the whatnot so you always have to keep the whatnot so you always have to keep the conversation at the introductory level conversation at the introductory level conversation at the introductory level because because because new people are joining it all the time i new people are joining it all the time i new people are joining it all the time i almost feel like almost feel like almost feel like that's become the way the national that's become the way the national that's become the way the national conversation and the international conversation and the international conversation and the international conversation has gone now where nothing conversation has gone now where nothing conversation has gone now where nothing gets below gets below gets below the surface level because once you get the surface level because once you get the surface level because once you get below the surface level either people

below the surface level either people below the surface level either people are incapable of having a conversation are incapable of having a conversation are incapable of having a conversation at that level at that level at that level or i mean it's you know if i come up or i mean it's you know if i come up or i mean it's you know if i come up with facts against with facts against with facts against somebody and they say well you're just a somebody and they say well you're just a somebody and they say well you're just a fill in the blank i mean already the fill in the blank i mean already the fill in the blank i mean already the conversation is over so there isn't a conversation is over so there isn't a conversation is over so there isn't a conversation conversation conversation yeah and in a functioning you know there yeah and in a functioning you know there yeah and in a functioning you know there used to be a line that in a used to be a line that in a used to be a line that in a in a democracy or a republic an informed in a democracy or a republic an informed in a democracy or a republic an informed citizenry citizenry citizenry is what's required could you call our is what's required could you call our is what's required could you call our citizenry informed and if you said no citizenry informed and if you said no citizenry informed and if you said no is it their fault i don't know right no is it their fault i don't know right no is it their fault i don't know right no i agree i think it's uh i agree i think it's uh i agree i think it's uh that's why it's a really messy situation that's why it's a really messy situation that's why it's a really messy situation which is why i see which is why i see which is why i see the tremendous appeal not just in us but the tremendous appeal not just in us but the tremendous appeal not just in us but around the world around the world around the world of really kind of like the strong of really kind of like the strong of really kind of like the strong man authoritarian type who's gonna tell man authoritarian type who's gonna tell man authoritarian type who's gonna tell you i will take care of it all because you i will take care of it all because you i will take care of it all because people people people are confused people are scared there's are confused people are scared there's are confused people are scared there's so much so much so much so much contradictory information so so much contradictory information so so much contradictory information so much quick change happening much quick change happening much quick change happening at a incredibly fast pace that people at a incredibly fast pace that people at a incredibly fast pace that people feel like feel like feel like the ground underneath them is not as the ground underneath them is not as the ground underneath them is not as solid as it used to be solid as it used to be solid as it used to be and so the appeal of the strong man was and so the appeal of the strong man was and so the appeal of the strong man was going to going to going to fix it all seemed to be very popular fix it all seemed to be very popular fix it all seemed to be very popular pretty much i wouldn't say all over the pretty much i wouldn't say all over the pretty much i wouldn't say all over the world but in many many many different world but in many many many different world but in many many many different parts parts parts i'll tell you what reading mind conf i'll tell you what reading mind conf i'll tell you what reading mind conf again uh for the first time again uh for the first time again uh for the first time you know probably in two years three you know probably in two years three you know probably in two years three years i read it for a show a while back years i read it for a show a while back years i read it for a show a while back but i'm reading it and and it's funny but i'm reading it and and it's funny but i'm reading it and and it's funny because obviously the situations between because obviously the situations between because obviously the situations between you know post-first world war germany you know post-first world war germany you know post-first world war germany and where we are now is totally and where we are now is totally and where we are now is totally different we're not in a defeat period

different we're not in a defeat period different we're not in a defeat period we haven't had just we haven't had just we haven't had just you know the the great depression all you know the the great depression all you know the the great depression all these other things but when you're these other things but when you're these other things but when you're reading what hitler is saying you're reading what hitler is saying you're reading what hitler is saying you're going wow going wow going wow a lot of this would apply to now in a lot of this would apply to now in a lot of this would apply to now in terms of you know he's slamming the terms of you know he's slamming the terms of you know he's slamming the parliamentarians parliamentarians parliamentarians and he's talking about how they come out and he's talking about how they come out and he's talking about how they come out to talk to the voters right around to talk to the voters right around to talk to the voters right around election time promise them every i mean election time promise them every i mean election time promise them every i mean it's the same sort of um anger it's the same sort of um anger it's the same sort of um anger that would play very well in the current that would play very well in the current that would play very well in the current society and i have to say listen i don't society and i have to say listen i don't society and i have to say listen i don't have a nazistic bone have a nazistic bone have a nazistic bone or really a bolshevistic bone in my body or really a bolshevistic bone in my body or really a bolshevistic bone in my body but i get it but i get it but i get it but i mean i get the frustration when but i mean i get the frustration when but i mean i get the frustration when you see government slowly but surely not you see government slowly but surely not you see government slowly but surely not functioning at all and certainly not functioning at all and certainly not functioning at all and certainly not functioning for the common people functioning for the common people functioning for the common people but what's funny is how often i don't but what's funny is how often i don't but what's funny is how often i don't know if you want to call it cyclical or know if you want to call it cyclical or know if you want to call it cyclical or whatever whatever whatever but how how you know the very things but how how you know the very things but how how you know the very things that hitler's saying in mind comp that hitler's saying in mind comp that hitler's saying in mind comp specifically to appeal let's remember specifically to appeal let's remember specifically to appeal let's remember that that book was not to be that that book was not to be that that book was not to be this great historical document so we this great historical document so we this great historical document so we could read it now it was meant for could read it now it was meant for could read it now it was meant for a political treatise for himself in that a political treatise for himself in that a political treatise for himself in that era how well that would play today era how well that would play today era how well that would play today you know i mean i think people would be you know i mean i think people would be you know i mean i think people would be scared if i said go read mein kampf to scared if i said go read mein kampf to scared if i said go read mein kampf to find out where hitler is on the find out where hitler is on the find out where hitler is on the political spectrum political spectrum political spectrum because i think they would think don't because i think they would think don't because i think they would think don't tell people to do that because tell people to do that because tell people to do that because they might like it absolutely i think is they might like it absolutely i think is they might like it absolutely i think is i mean i mean i mean has been done time and time again the has been done time and time again the has been done time and time again the whole uh quoting from minecraft whole uh quoting from minecraft whole uh quoting from minecraft not saying that it's hitler in front of not saying that it's hitler in front of not saying that it's hitler in front of cheering crowds who go this is great and cheering crowds who go this is great and cheering crowds who go this is great and then you tell them by the way that was then you tell them by the way that was then you tell them by the way that was hitler and people flip out hitler and people flip out hitler and people flip out you know it's like there's a reason for you know it's like there's a reason for you know it's like there's a reason for it is people it is people it is people as much as it's not very popular thing as much as it's not very popular thing as much as it's not very popular thing to say people like that stuff to say people like that stuff to say people like that stuff oh let me give you the converse one that

oh let me give you the converse one that oh let me give you the converse one that upset me so much i remember i was on the upset me so much i remember i was on the upset me so much i remember i was on the radio in the 1990s i was always talking radio in the 1990s i was always talking radio in the 1990s i was always talking about freedom and liberty about freedom and liberty about freedom and liberty and the this america that was and the this america that was and the this america that was disappearing disappearing disappearing and right around the time i was doing and right around the time i was doing and right around the time i was doing this i remember i was coming home from this i remember i was coming home from this i remember i was coming home from work and i'm listening to the radio and work and i'm listening to the radio and work and i'm listening to the radio and there was a story there was a story there was a story and it was some democrats who had re and it was some democrats who had re and it was some democrats who had re i'm going from memory here but they had i'm going from memory here but they had i'm going from memory here but they had sort of rewritten the bill of rights sort of rewritten the bill of rights sort of rewritten the bill of rights in modern day english so that it didn't in modern day english so that it didn't in modern day english so that it didn't look like the original and then look like the original and then look like the original and then submitted it i forgot what this was i submitted it i forgot what this was i submitted it i forgot what this was i want to say it was the house of want to say it was the house of want to say it was the house of representatives representatives representatives and a bunch of republicans came forward and a bunch of republicans came forward and a bunch of republicans came forward and said that it was awful that it would and said that it was awful that it would and said that it was awful that it would destroy destroy destroy you know in other words just really we you know in other words just really we you know in other words just really we can't have this kind of stuff and then can't have this kind of stuff and then can't have this kind of stuff and then of course they sprung the trap on them of course they sprung the trap on them of course they sprung the trap on them and said oh it's the bill of rights and and said oh it's the bill of rights and and said oh it's the bill of rights and you would have voted against it you would have voted against it you would have voted against it um i i you know i mean i think there's a um i i you know i mean i think there's a um i i you know i mean i think there's a little of that too where you turn around little of that too where you turn around little of that too where you turn around go there's a lot of and this is another go there's a lot of and this is another go there's a lot of and this is another reason that i think my current event reason that i think my current event reason that i think my current event show has a problem right now is that show has a problem right now is that show has a problem right now is that it's hard for me to relate to a current it's hard for me to relate to a current it's hard for me to relate to a current um generation of americans um generation of americans um generation of americans that very well might look at the bill of that very well might look at the bill of that very well might look at the bill of rights and say way way way i don't agree rights and say way way way i don't agree rights and say way way way i don't agree with one four with one four with one four seven and you know i mean i i'm i feel seven and you know i mean i i'm i feel seven and you know i mean i i'm i feel like a dinosaur like a dinosaur like a dinosaur politically and so having discussions politically and so having discussions politically and so having discussions with people along the lines that we used with people along the lines that we used with people along the lines that we used to consider to be to consider to be to consider to be normal you know 20 30 years ago elicits normal you know 20 30 years ago elicits normal you know 20 30 years ago elicits responses that surprise me and not just responses that surprise me and not just responses that surprise me and not just from from from you know young liberal americans but you know young liberal americans but you know young liberal americans but from young conservative americans too from young conservative americans too from young conservative americans too here is one thing though that i'm here is one thing though that i'm here is one thing though that i'm getting a lot getting a lot getting a lot when i bring this up with people is that when i bring this up with people is that when i bring this up with people is that i always got the feedback of don't i always got the feedback of don't i always got the feedback of don't listen to those people listen to those people listen to those people just go ahead and and this applies just go ahead and and this applies just go ahead and and this applies probably to you more than to

probably to you more than to probably to you more than to than to me but like many people miss than to me but like many people miss than to me but like many people miss your point of view many people miss the your point of view many people miss the your point of view many people miss the the presence the presence the presence of a voice that's not ultra that doesn't of a voice that's not ultra that doesn't of a voice that's not ultra that doesn't push this ultra functionalism all the push this ultra functionalism all the push this ultra functionalism all the time time time a voice that's actually trying to make a voice that's actually trying to make a voice that's actually trying to make sense out of the current scenario not sense out of the current scenario not sense out of the current scenario not through not through particular through not through particular through not through particular ideological lenses ideological lenses ideological lenses you know and it's a pain because you know and it's a pain because you know and it's a pain because inevitably if you do that you will get inevitably if you do that you will get inevitably if you do that you will get the hatred from multiple sides the hatred from multiple sides the hatred from multiple sides but at the same time there probably is a but at the same time there probably is a but at the same time there probably is a need for it precisely because the times need for it precisely because the times need for it precisely because the times are so ugly in that sense are so ugly in that sense are so ugly in that sense on the other hand is better this is a on the other hand is better this is a on the other hand is better this is a secret secret danielle bolelli secret secret danielle bolelli secret secret danielle bolelli attempt to try to find the [ __ ] in my attempt to try to find the [ __ ] in my attempt to try to find the [ __ ] in my armor to get me to go do that again i armor to get me to go do that again i armor to get me to go do that again i know what you're up to well know what you're up to well know what you're up to well i mean no and you know it well and we i mean no and you know it well and we i mean no and you know it well and we agree but also agree but also agree but also let's look at what i'm doing is very let's look at what i'm doing is very let's look at what i'm doing is very easy for me to tell you to do it right easy for me to tell you to do it right easy for me to tell you to do it right he's like he's like he's like dan this is a really important thing dan this is a really important thing dan this is a really important thing that somebody should do it that somebody should do it that somebody should do it wink wink why don't you do it he's like wink wink why don't you do it he's like wink wink why don't you do it he's like well yes that's great well yes that's great well yes that's great except that that means you have to deal except that that means you have to deal except that that means you have to deal with all the with all the with all the annoying aspects that that would not annoying aspects that that would not annoying aspects that that would not entail so entail so entail so and as much as i'm pushing you in that and as much as i'm pushing you in that and as much as i'm pushing you in that direction i also acknowledge that i'm direction i also acknowledge that i'm direction i also acknowledge that i'm not the best of friend in this because not the best of friend in this because not the best of friend in this because i'm telling you to do something that i'm i'm telling you to do something that i'm i'm telling you to do something that i'm not doing not doing not doing so you know no well speaking of that let so you know no well speaking of that let so you know no well speaking of that let me shift this a little bit me shift this a little bit me shift this a little bit because no no i don't like it because because no no i don't like it because because no no i don't like it because we've spoken of of this specific we've spoken of of this specific we've spoken of of this specific american milieu here which is where i american milieu here which is where i american milieu here which is where i live live live right and i don't mean live like like right and i don't mean live like like right and i don't mean live like like geographically i mean

geographically i mean geographically i mean i am i am i am a product of this right i am i am i am a product of this right i am i am i am a product of this right it's a very american uh point of view it's a very american uh point of view it's a very american uh point of view and a very american attitude and i and a very american attitude and i and a very american attitude and i realize my realize my realize my my my blind spots and my blinders and my my blind spots and my blinders and my my blind spots and my blinders and when i talk about you know the national when i talk about you know the national when i talk about you know the national socialism and people talking about the socialism and people talking about the socialism and people talking about the loss all of these are such american loss all of these are such american loss all of these are such american phenomenon but the united states is of phenomenon but the united states is of phenomenon but the united states is of course course course but one part of the planet let me ask but one part of the planet let me ask but one part of the planet let me ask you you go you you go you you go home to the old country a lot sure how home to the old country a lot sure how home to the old country a lot sure how does how does does how does does how does how do these trends that we're talking how do these trends that we're talking how do these trends that we're talking about here in the states how much is about here in the states how much is about here in the states how much is this internationalized and tell me this internationalized and tell me this internationalized and tell me what do you think we'll talk about what do you think we'll talk about what do you think we'll talk about european youth in general but let's talk european youth in general but let's talk european youth in general but let's talk about maybe about maybe about maybe uh mediterranean youth or italian youth uh mediterranean youth or italian youth uh mediterranean youth or italian youth specifically if you have any connection specifically if you have any connection specifically if you have any connection to them at all to them at all to them at all how much of this is is apparent how much how much of this is is apparent how much how much of this is is apparent how much do the situations match and in what ways do the situations match and in what ways do the situations match and in what ways do you see differences do you see differences do you see differences i mean other than the damn discussion i mean other than the damn discussion i mean other than the damn discussion about nazism fascism left-wing about nazism fascism left-wing about nazism fascism left-wing right-wing that kind of thing and i mean right-wing that kind of thing and i mean right-wing that kind of thing and i mean them in a sense that we have established them in a sense that we have established them in a sense that we have established it's based on no historical evidence it's based on no historical evidence it's based on no historical evidence whatsoever that whatsoever that whatsoever that stuff probably because people have lived stuff probably because people have lived stuff probably because people have lived through it is not really up for through it is not really up for through it is not really up for discussion in italy discussion in italy discussion in italy but everything else applies you know but everything else applies you know but everything else applies you know everything else is the same degree of everything else is the same degree of everything else is the same degree of extreme brutal angry functionalism extreme brutal angry functionalism extreme brutal angry functionalism the same lack of solution from one side the same lack of solution from one side the same lack of solution from one side that then push people into voting the that then push people into voting the that then push people into voting the other side only to find out that the other side only to find out that the other side only to find out that the other side is equally clueless other side is equally clueless other side is equally clueless so then you swim back to i think these so then you swim back to i think these so then you swim back to i think these are are are i don't want to say universal trends i don't want to say universal trends i don't want to say universal trends because what do i know about every because what do i know about every because what do i know about every country in the world but i country in the world but i country in the world but i if we stick the discussion to at least

if we stick the discussion to at least if we stick the discussion to at least italy yeah i do see the same italy yeah i do see the same italy yeah i do see the same dynamics at play okay can we call this dynamics at play okay can we call this dynamics at play okay can we call this a um you know that for every action a um you know that for every action a um you know that for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction there's an equal and opposite reaction there's an equal and opposite reaction could we suggest that this is a natural could we suggest that this is a natural could we suggest that this is a natural um attitude you know populism being the um attitude you know populism being the um attitude you know populism being the response response response to uh a a government that to uh a a government that to uh a a government that is uh deaf or that or that is ins is uh deaf or that or that is ins is uh deaf or that or that is ins working for someone else i mean another working for someone else i mean another working for someone else i mean another one of the reports came out again you one of the reports came out again you one of the reports came out again you know know know backing up what everybody already knows backing up what everybody already knows backing up what everybody already knows which is the people that influence which is the people that influence which is the people that influence policy at least in the united states policy at least in the united states policy at least in the united states uh are are people with tons of money and uh are are people with tons of money and uh are are people with tons of money and the people that have almost no say over the people that have almost no say over the people that have almost no say over policy are the great mass of people policy are the great mass of people policy are the great mass of people um how much you know i would say that in um how much you know i would say that in um how much you know i would say that in my mind populism whether you want to say my mind populism whether you want to say my mind populism whether you want to say populism of the left or the right or populism of the left or the right or populism of the left or the right or wherever wherever wherever is a is a natural reaction perhaps to is a is a natural reaction perhaps to is a is a natural reaction perhaps to a government that is deaf absolutely or a government that is deaf absolutely or a government that is deaf absolutely or unresponsive unresponsive unresponsive or or seemingly working for someone else or or seemingly working for someone else or or seemingly working for someone else and and i think you could say in in the and and i think you could say in in the and and i think you could say in in the global sense i mean look at the reaction global sense i mean look at the reaction global sense i mean look at the reaction to the eu in europe and some of the to the eu in europe and some of the to the eu in europe and some of the critiques against it sound an awful lot critiques against it sound an awful lot critiques against it sound an awful lot like critiques against washington dc by like critiques against washington dc by like critiques against washington dc by americans here americans here americans here yeah and i think that's the problem that yeah and i think that's the problem that yeah and i think that's the problem that you know our the human mind is very you know our the human mind is very you know our the human mind is very binary you know we are used to binary you know we are used to binary you know we are used to good and evil black and white if these good and evil black and white if these good and evil black and white if these ordered ordered ordered no realizing that often the solution is no realizing that often the solution is no realizing that often the solution is a mix of different a mix of different a mix of different impulses it's not a one extreme or impulses it's not a one extreme or impulses it's not a one extreme or another which doesn't mean it's in the another which doesn't mean it's in the another which doesn't mean it's in the center either because the center is also center either because the center is also center either because the center is also a stack position

a stack position a stack position the solution is dynamic it's constantly the solution is dynamic it's constantly the solution is dynamic it's constantly changing and you have to find the right changing and you have to find the right changing and you have to find the right balance in the right situation now balance in the right situation now balance in the right situation now that's not the way our minds work that's not the way our minds work that's not the way our minds work most people feel if faction a most people feel if faction a most people feel if faction a is doing something that clearly is not is doing something that clearly is not is doing something that clearly is not working if the government is not working working if the government is not working working if the government is not working following this philosophy then faction b following this philosophy then faction b following this philosophy then faction b will be the solution if uh the powers will be the solution if uh the powers will be the solution if uh the powers that be in washington are screwed up that be in washington are screwed up that be in washington are screwed up then some populists to show up will be then some populists to show up will be then some populists to show up will be the solution or vice versa the solution or vice versa the solution or vice versa and what i see is just a ping pong game and what i see is just a ping pong game and what i see is just a ping pong game between between between stupid ideas where you know it's like stupid ideas where you know it's like stupid ideas where you know it's like the opposite of a the opposite of a the opposite of a supposed to be b but b yeah they talk a supposed to be b but b yeah they talk a supposed to be b but b yeah they talk a different game but in terms of result is different game but in terms of result is different game but in terms of result is they are equally poor and rather than they are equally poor and rather than they are equally poor and rather than realizing okay realizing okay realizing okay face doesn't deliver results if b face doesn't deliver results if b face doesn't deliver results if b doesn't deliver results maybe we could doesn't deliver results maybe we could doesn't deliver results maybe we could try something try something try something else i just see the ping pong game going else i just see the ping pong game going else i just see the ping pong game going back and forth forever and i'm just like back and forth forever and i'm just like back and forth forever and i'm just like really this is the game we're stuck on really this is the game we're stuck on really this is the game we're stuck on this is like this is like this is like do we really not think that there are do we really not think that there are do we really not think that there are maybe more out there than just these two maybe more out there than just these two maybe more out there than just these two supposedly different alternatives except supposedly different alternatives except supposedly different alternatives except that they deliver that they deliver that they deliver similarly bad results that's the part similarly bad results that's the part similarly bad results that's the part that i find frustrating that i find that i find frustrating that i find that i find frustrating that i find is not even about modern us or modern is not even about modern us or modern is not even about modern us or modern italy or even the left right political italy or even the left right political italy or even the left right political spectrum i find that like a virus of the spectrum i find that like a virus of the spectrum i find that like a virus of the human mind that we think human mind that we think human mind that we think in these binary opposites that very in these binary opposites that very in these binary opposites that very rarely rarely rarely actually match reality let me propose

actually match reality let me propose actually match reality let me propose another idea um there's a a wonderful another idea um there's a a wonderful another idea um there's a a wonderful punk rock singer john lyden he used to punk rock singer john lyden he used to punk rock singer john lyden he used to be called johnny rotten he wrote a be called johnny rotten he wrote a be called johnny rotten he wrote a wonderful book and the title wonderful book and the title wonderful book and the title is wonderful called anger is an energy is wonderful called anger is an energy is wonderful called anger is an energy um um um and and i would i would propose that and and and i would i would propose that and and and i would i would propose that and i'm speaking for the united states here i'm speaking for the united states here i'm speaking for the united states here specifically i would i would suggest specifically i would i would suggest specifically i would i would suggest that most americans in that most americans in that most americans in normal times don't care that much about normal times don't care that much about normal times don't care that much about politics politics politics but when it's apparent that life is but when it's apparent that life is but when it's apparent that life is getting getting getting difficult and that and that the difficult and that and that the difficult and that and that the situation appears to be extremely situation appears to be extremely situation appears to be extremely unfair that the anger rises and all of a unfair that the anger rises and all of a unfair that the anger rises and all of a sudden sudden sudden people who are not normally interested people who are not normally interested people who are not normally interested in politics are interested because it in politics are interested because it in politics are interested because it affects them so for example i've said affects them so for example i've said affects them so for example i've said forever forever forever uh that if if the united states can't uh that if if the united states can't uh that if if the united states can't figure out a way to do better figure out a way to do better figure out a way to do better for poor people and lower middle class for poor people and lower middle class for poor people and lower middle class people that those people that those people that those people will make the rest of us feel people will make the rest of us feel people will make the rest of us feel their pain eventually right they will their pain eventually right they will their pain eventually right they will only put up with it only put up with it only put up with it for a certain period of time and there's for a certain period of time and there's for a certain period of time and there's a tipping point if there get to be too a tipping point if there get to be too a tipping point if there get to be too many of those people many of those people many of those people no matter how much you want to justify no matter how much you want to justify no matter how much you want to justify and i'm just you know parroting a line and i'm just you know parroting a line and i'm just you know parroting a line here right the united states is this here right the united states is this here right the united states is this great capitalist system where you know great capitalist system where you know great capitalist system where you know if you've got what it takes you will if you've got what it takes you will if you've got what it takes you will make it and if you don't you won't make it and if you don't you won't make it and if you don't you won't uh that sounds great on paper but if uh that sounds great on paper but if uh that sounds great on paper but if enough people fall into the we don't enough people fall into the we don't enough people fall into the we don't make it category make it category make it category they're going to decide that that system they're going to decide that that system they're going to decide that that system is unsustainable and they're going to is unsustainable and they're going to is unsustainable and they're going to change it whether or not on paper this change it whether or not on paper this change it whether or not on paper this is the right philosophical system is the right philosophical system is the right philosophical system um that to me is the is where you get um that to me is the is where you get um that to me is the is where you get populism where people are just saying populism where people are just saying populism where people are just saying uh the system as constructed is not uh the system as constructed is not uh the system as constructed is not working there are people who are doing working there are people who are doing working there are people who are doing very well and then they convert very well and then they convert very well and then they convert doing very well into uh influencing the

doing very well into uh influencing the doing very well into uh influencing the government with their cash government with their cash government with their cash which you know even doubles down on the which you know even doubles down on the which you know even doubles down on the situation it makes it worse eventually situation it makes it worse eventually situation it makes it worse eventually you get populist anger on all sides uh you get populist anger on all sides uh you get populist anger on all sides uh if those people could ever unite if those people could ever unite if those people could ever unite you'd have a real interesting i mean you'd have a real interesting i mean you'd have a real interesting i mean that that is a little bit where you that that is a little bit where you that that is a little bit where you wonder if this isn't the shiny wonder if this isn't the shiny wonder if this isn't the shiny object uh being used by our typical object uh being used by our typical object uh being used by our typical politicians to keep us from uniting politicians to keep us from uniting politicians to keep us from uniting against them right against them right against them right fight against each other and don't fight against each other and don't fight against each other and don't notice what's going on behind the notice what's going on behind the notice what's going on behind the curtain curtain curtain but i i think what you may see now but i i think what you may see now but i i think what you may see now globally is if you get enough people globally is if you get enough people globally is if you get enough people that can't feed their kids or can't that can't feed their kids or can't that can't feed their kids or can't afford any health care and they're sick afford any health care and they're sick afford any health care and they're sick and there's enough of them they're not and there's enough of them they're not and there's enough of them they're not going to put up with it i mean history going to put up with it i mean history going to put up with it i mean history shows they're not going to put up with shows they're not going to put up with shows they're not going to put up with it forever it forever it forever so i don't know why we should be so i don't know why we should be so i don't know why we should be surprised when they don't and as surprised when they don't and as surprised when they don't and as everybody everybody everybody knows you have two choices when they knows you have two choices when they knows you have two choices when they flip out flip out flip out either you get into some radical changes either you get into some radical changes either you get into some radical changes or you crack or you crack or you crack down on them which leads to a more down on them which leads to a more down on them which leads to a more repressive state which nobody in this repressive state which nobody in this repressive state which nobody in this country wants country wants country wants absolutely and i think that's i think absolutely and i think that's i think absolutely and i think that's i think you really you really you really hit the nail on the head on that one hit the nail on the head on that one hit the nail on the head on that one because as much as i'm not a big because as much as i'm not a big because as much as i'm not a big believer in conspiracy theories and i believer in conspiracy theories and i believer in conspiracy theories and i tend tend tend to think that those usually are based on to think that those usually are based on to think that those usually are based on very lazy thinking very lazy thinking very lazy thinking but you can't tell to think that but you can't tell to think that but you can't tell to think that when there are real major issues at play when there are real major issues at play when there are real major issues at play that are ever discussed where the that are ever discussed where the that are ever discussed where the spotlight is hardly ever shown there spotlight is hardly ever shown there spotlight is hardly ever shown there where the real business is happening where the real business is happening where the real business is happening closed doors and in the meantime they closed doors and in the meantime they closed doors and in the meantime they have you fighting about transgender have you fighting about transgender have you fighting about transgender bathrooms or something that i don't mean bathrooms or something that i don't mean bathrooms or something that i don't mean to trivialize but really in terms of the to trivialize but really in terms of the to trivialize but really in terms of the great scheme of things

great scheme of things great scheme of things not quite as big of an issue as let's not quite as big of an issue as let's not quite as big of an issue as let's say say say where we are going today in terms of the where we are going today in terms of the where we are going today in terms of the sustainability of our relationship with sustainability of our relationship with sustainability of our relationship with the planet of the planet of the planet of sources of energy of you know ten sources of energy of you know ten sources of energy of you know ten thousand other things that are thousand other things that are thousand other things that are at the key of whether the human race is at the key of whether the human race is at the key of whether the human race is a future or not a future or not a future or not i can't tell but think that there may be i can't tell but think that there may be i can't tell but think that there may be an element of destruction i played there an element of destruction i played there an element of destruction i played there that is like yeah get them to fight that is like yeah get them to fight that is like yeah get them to fight along ideological lines about along ideological lines about along ideological lines about completely relevant topics to the to the completely relevant topics to the to the completely relevant topics to the to the real business not irrelevant to real business not irrelevant to real business not irrelevant to any single individual life of course any single individual life of course any single individual life of course it's relevant to some individual life it's relevant to some individual life it's relevant to some individual life but i'm talking irrelevant in terms of but i'm talking irrelevant in terms of but i'm talking irrelevant in terms of what the real business is about what the what the real business is about what the what the real business is about what the big decisions got to be made of big decisions got to be made of big decisions got to be made of and that way we still get to do business and that way we still get to do business and that way we still get to do business as usual behind closed doors while the as usual behind closed doors while the as usual behind closed doors while the idiots are fighting each other over idiots are fighting each other over idiots are fighting each other over something something something something else oh we are very something else oh we are very something else oh we are very manipulatable and this isn't a manipulatable and this isn't a manipulatable and this isn't a conspiracy theory this is conspiracy theory this is conspiracy theory this is this is how politics works i mean you this is how politics works i mean you this is how politics works i mean you can't call that conspiracies when can't call that conspiracies when can't call that conspiracies when when the political systems understood when the political systems understood when the political systems understood how to do this forever i mean a perfect how to do this forever i mean a perfect how to do this forever i mean a perfect example is i used to interview example is i used to interview example is i used to interview politicians all the time on the radio politicians all the time on the radio politicians all the time on the radio and some of them became good friends of and some of them became good friends of and some of them became good friends of mine and they were very upfront about mine and they were very upfront about mine and they were very upfront about how things work i mean for example how things work i mean for example how things work i mean for example they would talk about the problem of they would talk about the problem of they would talk about the problem of fundraising when you would get fundraising when you would get fundraising when you would get between elections so when you would get between elections so when you would get between elections so when you would get to this dead zone that was quite a to this dead zone that was quite a to this dead zone that was quite a distance between maybe call it an equal distance between maybe call it an equal distance between maybe call it an equal distance between two elections and it distance between two elections and it distance between two elections and it was hard to raise funds was hard to raise funds was hard to raise funds they would go and agree the to the they would go and agree the to the they would go and agree the to the republicans and the democrats republicans and the democrats republicans and the democrats to bring up a bill affecting one of to bring up a bill affecting one of to bring up a bill affecting one of those issues that just gets money those issues that just gets money those issues that just gets money pouring into the coffers on both sides

pouring into the coffers on both sides pouring into the coffers on both sides abortion or guns or whatever as a abortion or guns or whatever as a abortion or guns or whatever as a this this was a bipartisan effort to fan this this was a bipartisan effort to fan this this was a bipartisan effort to fan and whip up the base so that they and whip up the base so that they and whip up the base so that they started you know so you had something to started you know so you had something to started you know so you had something to go back and ask for contributions for go back and ask for contributions for go back and ask for contributions for that's not a conspiracy that's politics that's not a conspiracy that's politics that's not a conspiracy that's politics exactly um exactly um exactly um so so i mean if people get upset with so so i mean if people get upset with so so i mean if people get upset with that i understand the populist anger that i understand the populist anger that i understand the populist anger because you know because you know because you know as problems that we all see around us as problems that we all see around us as problems that we all see around us get worse you become more and more get worse you become more and more get worse you become more and more frustrated frustrated frustrated with the lack of attention to them now with the lack of attention to them now with the lack of attention to them now this kind of leads into another subject this kind of leads into another subject this kind of leads into another subject you wanted to talk about you wanted to talk about you wanted to talk about you wanted to talk about if not these you wanted to talk about if not these you wanted to talk about if not these political leaders political leaders political leaders who and i'll let you set that up yeah i who and i'll let you set that up yeah i who and i'll let you set that up yeah i was playing with the was playing with the was playing with the dan carlin time machine concept and so dan carlin time machine concept and so dan carlin time machine concept and so if you if you if you had to pick one past u.s president which had to pick one past u.s president which had to pick one past u.s president which of course is crazy because one past us of course is crazy because one past us of course is crazy because one past us president wouldn't have the knowledge of president wouldn't have the knowledge of president wouldn't have the knowledge of the modern war that we have but the modern war that we have but the modern war that we have but in a more you know let's say you give in a more you know let's say you give in a more you know let's say you give them a few years to catch up to what's them a few years to catch up to what's them a few years to catch up to what's going on today personality wise going on today personality wise going on today personality wise if there was one past u.s president that if there was one past u.s president that if there was one past u.s president that you wouldn't mind you wouldn't mind you wouldn't mind seeing in the white house today is there seeing in the white house today is there seeing in the white house today is there anybody anybody anybody if there's anybody who would that be if there's anybody who would that be if there's anybody who would that be well you sort of screwed up my answer well you sort of screwed up my answer well you sort of screwed up my answer too because you issued the disclaimer too because you issued the disclaimer too because you issued the disclaimer that i was going to throw out initially that i was going to throw out initially that i was going to throw out initially which is which is which is um i don't think you could bring back um i don't think you could bring back um i don't think you could bring back any 19th century presidents and bring any 19th century presidents and bring any 19th century presidents and bring them up to speed them up to speed them up to speed with the america of today so that they with the america of today so that they with the america of today so that they could operate that's because could operate that's because could operate that's because that's because i know you too well and i that's because i know you too well and i that's because i know you too well and i closed the way out of the quest you know closed the way out of the quest you know closed the way out of the quest you know i was like i know where he's gonna go so i was like i know where he's gonna go so i was like i know where he's gonna go so let me close that way out it just

let me close that way out it just let me close that way out it just it limits the choices that's all it it limits the choices that's all it it limits the choices that's all it would do would do would do you know it's funny because it this is a you know it's funny because it this is a you know it's funny because it this is a question that gets to one's own question that gets to one's own question that gets to one's own political beliefs because political beliefs because political beliefs because obviously i'm going to pick the obviously i'm going to pick the obviously i'm going to pick the president that solves the things that i president that solves the things that i president that solves the things that i believe believe believe are problems which may not be what other are problems which may not be what other are problems which may not be what other people believe are problems um people believe are problems um people believe are problems um i thought about this a little bit um to i thought about this a little bit um to i thought about this a little bit um to me me me i i think i got to bring back somebody i i think i got to bring back somebody i i think i got to bring back somebody who's going to figure out how to who's going to figure out how to who's going to figure out how to uh give the united states a soft landing uh give the united states a soft landing uh give the united states a soft landing from where we are now and there are from where we are now and there are from where we are now and there are going to be people that don't believe we going to be people that don't believe we going to be people that don't believe we need a soft landing or any kind of need a soft landing or any kind of need a soft landing or any kind of landing but what i mean by that is landing but what i mean by that is landing but what i mean by that is if you look and this is again my if you look and this is again my if you look and this is again my personal opinion if you look at where personal opinion if you look at where personal opinion if you look at where the united states is now let's call it the united states is now let's call it the united states is now let's call it what it is what it is what it is it's an empire and it's not just an it's an empire and it's not just an it's an empire and it's not just an empire i always blow people's minds when empire i always blow people's minds when empire i always blow people's minds when i point this out i point this out i point this out it's the most powerful empire in global it's the most powerful empire in global it's the most powerful empire in global history history history okay and it's not even close so when you okay and it's not even close so when you okay and it's not even close so when you say that you know americans are so say that you know americans are so say that you know americans are so are so conditioned to believe that are so conditioned to believe that are so conditioned to believe that they're not an empire that that simply they're not an empire that that simply they're not an empire that that simply strikes them strikes them strikes them incorrectly it feels right it feels like incorrectly it feels right it feels like incorrectly it feels right it feels like you're making a political statement by you're making a political statement by you're making a political statement by even saying that even saying that even saying that right because we're not like nazi right because we're not like nazi right because we're not like nazi germany we're not like the mongols germany we're not like the mongols germany we're not like the mongols no we're a commercial empire think no we're a commercial empire think no we're a commercial empire think athens right or athens right or athens right or or or something like that right think or or something like that right think or or something like that right think carthage um carthage um carthage um that's what we're like and we and we we that's what we're like and we and we we that's what we're like and we and we we exert a very light exert a very light exert a very light touch uh with with client states and touch uh with with client states and touch uh with with client states and friendly states and alliance systems friendly states and alliance systems friendly states and alliance systems uh we have a navy that controls the seas uh we have a navy that controls the seas uh we have a navy that controls the seas protects the trade routes all these kind

protects the trade routes all these kind protects the trade routes all these kind of things of things of things um but that to me is unsustainable right um but that to me is unsustainable right um but that to me is unsustainable right whatever it is six whatever it is six whatever it is six 800 bases whatever it is around the 800 bases whatever it is around the 800 bases whatever it is around the world i mean if that's not an empire i world i mean if that's not an empire i world i mean if that's not an empire i don't know what is don't know what is don't know what is um so so i always say to people how do um so so i always say to people how do um so so i always say to people how do you think that's going to turn out you think that's going to turn out you think that's going to turn out long term right in other words project long term right in other words project long term right in other words project 100 years from now 100 years from now 100 years from now whereas the american empire project 200 whereas the american empire project 200 whereas the american empire project 200 years from now if it's not there 200 years from now if it's not there 200 years from now if it's not there 200 years from now what happened to it years from now what happened to it years from now what happened to it right um my attitude is is that this is right um my attitude is is that this is right um my attitude is is that this is unsustainable unsustainable unsustainable but i think the people in the united but i think the people in the united but i think the people in the united states government and the halls of power states government and the halls of power states government and the halls of power and many americans and many americans and many americans assume that the conditions we have now assume that the conditions we have now assume that the conditions we have now u.s global dominance or the word we'd u.s global dominance or the word we'd u.s global dominance or the word we'd like to use like to use like to use is global leadership that this is is global leadership that this is is global leadership that this is ever-present ever-present ever-present and unending that this is the status quo and unending that this is the status quo and unending that this is the status quo for the rest of history moving for the rest of history moving for the rest of history moving forward which is ridiculous and as we forward which is ridiculous and as we forward which is ridiculous and as we all understand from what was it foreign all understand from what was it foreign all understand from what was it foreign policy 101 the balance of power policy 101 the balance of power policy 101 the balance of power principles principles principles it naturally when you have one it naturally when you have one it naturally when you have one overriding power it naturally overriding power it naturally overriding power it naturally uh creates an interest for other global uh creates an interest for other global uh creates an interest for other global powers to coalesce to counterbalance it powers to coalesce to counterbalance it powers to coalesce to counterbalance it uh which leads to either terrible wars uh which leads to either terrible wars uh which leads to either terrible wars uh eventually or eventually some country uh eventually or eventually some country uh eventually or eventually some country bankrupting itself trying to keep the bankrupting itself trying to keep the bankrupting itself trying to keep the status quo um so when you ask me which status quo um so when you ask me which status quo um so when you ask me which president i would bring back president i would bring back president i would bring back i would bring back somebody who both i would bring back somebody who both i would bring back somebody who both recognized that recognized that recognized that and would be in a position to do and would be in a position to do and would be in a position to do something about it and it would take a something about it and it would take a something about it and it would take a very special kind of person very special kind of person very special kind of person um so i always go to eisenhower um so i always go to eisenhower um so i always go to eisenhower uh disclaimer general slash president uh disclaimer general slash president uh disclaimer general slash president eisenhower uh did a lot of things that i eisenhower uh did a lot of things that i eisenhower uh did a lot of things that i think were awful and that got the think were awful and that got the think were awful and that got the country into worse situations for country into worse situations for country into worse situations for example he was a fervent user of like

example he was a fervent user of like example he was a fervent user of like the cia the cia the cia to undermine countries and all these to undermine countries and all these to undermine countries and all these kind of things but but i would suggest kind of things but but i would suggest kind of things but but i would suggest that that is part of that that is part of that that is part of the era he lived in and certain the era he lived in and certain the era he lived in and certain challenges from that 1950s challenges from that 1950s challenges from that 1950s um you know war against communism that um you know war against communism that um you know war against communism that um um um that i would give him a little bit of a that i would give him a little bit of a that i would give him a little bit of a pass on what i would say about pass on what i would say about pass on what i would say about eisenhower though and why i would choose eisenhower though and why i would choose eisenhower though and why i would choose him over those 19th century guys is he's him over those 19th century guys is he's him over those 19th century guys is he's a guy who a guy who a guy who straddled the divide he was born in one straddled the divide he was born in one straddled the divide he was born in one america america america and he was president of another america and he was president of another america and he was president of another america and he remembered what the old america and he remembered what the old america and he remembered what the old america was like was like was like right what you know what i always get right what you know what i always get right what you know what i always get angry at with when americans will talk angry at with when americans will talk angry at with when americans will talk to me about my political beliefs on on to me about my political beliefs on on to me about my political beliefs on on the empire thing they will always say to the empire thing they will always say to the empire thing they will always say to me well you're an isolationist me well you're an isolationist me well you're an isolationist and i will say i'm not at isolations i and i will say i'm not at isolations i and i will say i'm not at isolations i wanted the american foreign policy that wanted the american foreign policy that wanted the american foreign policy that existed from the beginning of the existed from the beginning of the existed from the beginning of the country country country to about the second world war i don't if to about the second world war i don't if to about the second world war i don't if that's isolationist you know that's isolationist you know that's isolationist you know i'm sure the mexicans and the native i'm sure the mexicans and the native i'm sure the mexicans and the native americans americans americans and the canadians and a bunch of other and the canadians and a bunch of other and the canadians and a bunch of other people would go well it doesn't seem people would go well it doesn't seem people would go well it doesn't seem very isolationist to me very isolationist to me very isolationist to me um but but my point is that eisenhower um but but my point is that eisenhower um but but my point is that eisenhower was born was born was born in a norman rockwell upbringing and in a norman rockwell upbringing and in a norman rockwell upbringing and understood that that's the america that understood that that's the america that understood that that's the america that if we could get back to that if we could get back to that if we could get back to that we should and when you look at his we should and when you look at his we should and when you look at his comments he understood comments he understood comments he understood totally that it was an unsustainable and totally that it was an unsustainable and totally that it was an unsustainable and temporary situation temporary situation temporary situation that we were in in the post-second world that we were in in the post-second world that we were in in the post-second world war world and he was looking for war world and he was looking for war world and he was looking for ways out right when can we get out of ways out right when can we get out of ways out right when can we get out of europe and let the europeans resume europe and let the europeans resume europe and let the europeans resume you know their normal operations and you know their normal operations and you know their normal operations and they control their area and they defend they control their area and they defend they control their area and they defend their area their area their area he was looking for landing zones right

he was looking for landing zones right he was looking for landing zones right how do we get out of these commitments how do we get out of these commitments how do we get out of these commitments in a way in a way in a way uh that's safe right he didn't want to uh that's safe right he didn't want to uh that's safe right he didn't want to leave anybody in the lurch he realized leave anybody in the lurch he realized leave anybody in the lurch he realized that you know you had to be careful that you know you had to be careful that you know you had to be careful but that's why he gave that but that's why he gave that but that's why he gave that military-industrial complex speech at military-industrial complex speech at military-industrial complex speech at the end of his presidency because he the end of his presidency because he the end of his presidency because he realized that this is not sustainable realized that this is not sustainable realized that this is not sustainable nor is it healthy long-term nor is it healthy long-term nor is it healthy long-term but it is profitable for some people so but it is profitable for some people so but it is profitable for some people so you have to be careful because you have to be careful because you have to be careful because eventually that profitability for some eventually that profitability for some eventually that profitability for some people people people becomes addictive and it's funny that so becomes addictive and it's funny that so becomes addictive and it's funny that so many of the people that many of the people that many of the people that decry u.s social programs don't realize decry u.s social programs don't realize decry u.s social programs don't realize that the number one that the number one that the number one transfer of wealth that i can think of transfer of wealth that i can think of transfer of wealth that i can think of especially if you're talking about the especially if you're talking about the especially if you're talking about the discretionary part of the us budget discretionary part of the us budget discretionary part of the us budget is from the american taxpayer to a bunch is from the american taxpayer to a bunch is from the american taxpayer to a bunch of companies that make military hardware of companies that make military hardware of companies that make military hardware i mean that that is military keynesia i mean that that is military keynesia i mean that that is military keynesia ism right there ism right there ism right there um so so when you ask what president i um so so when you ask what president i um so so when you ask what president i would get you need a president that can would get you need a president that can would get you need a president that can one one one see the unsustainability i think see the unsustainability i think see the unsustainability i think eisenhower pointed that out eisenhower pointed that out eisenhower pointed that out when it was a lot less bad than it is when it was a lot less bad than it is when it was a lot less bad than it is now by the way now by the way now by the way i also think he understood what america i also think he understood what america i also think he understood what america really was because he grew up in it really was because he grew up in it really was because he grew up in it so so in his mind's eye he would like to so so in his mind's eye he would like to so so in his mind's eye he would like to as much as you can you know given the as much as you can you know given the as much as you can you know given the realities of the 20th century get back realities of the 20th century get back realities of the 20th century get back to that to that to that and he remembers what the road back and he remembers what the road back and he remembers what the road back looked like finally looked like finally looked like finally i think the fact that the guy was a i think the fact that the guy was a i think the fact that the guy was a general general general makes a huge difference because in our makes a huge difference because in our makes a huge difference because in our country it is so easy country it is so easy country it is so easy to tar and feather a civilian when they to tar and feather a civilian when they to tar and feather a civilian when they start talking about start talking about start talking about changing you know the global military changing you know the global military changing you know the global military balance of power and all this whereas balance of power and all this whereas balance of power and all this whereas eisenhower knew all those generals air eisenhower knew all those generals air eisenhower knew all those generals air force guys and force guys and force guys and and admirals by name personally he

and admirals by name personally he and admirals by name personally he played bridge with them played bridge with them played bridge with them right he he did not fear them he could right he he did not fear them he could right he he did not fear them he could go right up to them and say you know bob go right up to them and say you know bob go right up to them and say you know bob this is ridiculous the country can't this is ridiculous the country can't this is ridiculous the country can't afford it or whatever afford it or whatever afford it or whatever and no american person is going to think and no american person is going to think and no american person is going to think he's soft on defense he's soft on defense he's soft on defense um so when you talk about what dan um so when you talk about what dan um so when you talk about what dan carlin thinks the country should have to carlin thinks the country should have to carlin thinks the country should have to get back on an even keel get back on an even keel get back on an even keel this is my own personal you know bias this is my own personal you know bias this is my own personal you know bias you're going to take in my you're going to take in my you're going to take in my mind a guy like eisenhower is going to mind a guy like eisenhower is going to mind a guy like eisenhower is going to be required to do it now did he do a lot be required to do it now did he do a lot be required to do it now did he do a lot of things i don't like he absolutely did of things i don't like he absolutely did of things i don't like he absolutely did but i don't have any presidents who are but i don't have any presidents who are but i don't have any presidents who are perfect were there 19th century guys i would were there 19th century guys i would like sure but they're not going to be like sure but they're not going to be like sure but they're not going to be able to con i mean if you put them in able to con i mean if you put them in able to con i mean if you put them in the white house even if you tried to the white house even if you tried to the white house even if you tried to bring them up to speed bring them up to speed bring them up to speed the country that they're going to be the country that they're going to be the country that they're going to be dealing with doesn't even resemble dealing with doesn't even resemble dealing with doesn't even resemble not the one that they came from so to me not the one that they came from so to me not the one that they came from so to me it's got to be somebody who at least it's got to be somebody who at least it's got to be somebody who at least existed in a time where the country had existed in a time where the country had existed in a time where the country had some semblance of what some semblance of what some semblance of what it's like now in order to adequately you it's like now in order to adequately you it's like now in order to adequately you know contend with the problem so i'm know contend with the problem so i'm know contend with the problem so i'm picking eisenhower do you have a picking eisenhower do you have a picking eisenhower do you have a person you would pick well i mean as you person you would pick well i mean as you person you would pick well i mean as you said said said there are no perfect guys and in some there are no perfect guys and in some there are no perfect guys and in some cases we are really just looking at cases we are really just looking at cases we are really just looking at very different degrees of imperfection very different degrees of imperfection very different degrees of imperfection because some of their downsides are very because some of their downsides are very because some of their downsides are very heavy heavy heavy but one guy i like i can't help but in but one guy i like i can't help but in but one guy i like i can't help but in personality probably because it's a personality probably because it's a personality probably because it's a little mental in the range which seems little mental in the range which seems little mental in the range which seems to be one of the characteristics i to be one of the characteristics i to be one of the characteristics i i resonate well with but um i resonate well with but um i resonate well with but um i did this three-part series until the i did this three-part series until the i did this three-part series until the roosevelt and roosevelt and roosevelt and as much okay let's start with the as much okay let's start with the as much okay let's start with the negatives roosevelt never saw war he negatives roosevelt never saw war he negatives roosevelt never saw war he didn't like

didn't like didn't like he was ridiculously impulsive he was ridiculously impulsive he was ridiculously impulsive very hawkish in terms of foreign policy very hawkish in terms of foreign policy very hawkish in terms of foreign policy all stuff that i'm not particularly fond all stuff that i'm not particularly fond all stuff that i'm not particularly fond of of of so what is that i like about the and so what is that i like about the and so what is that i like about the and just to clarify just to clarify just to clarify again theodore roosevelt very different again theodore roosevelt very different again theodore roosevelt very different from franklin delano roosevelt so just from franklin delano roosevelt so just from franklin delano roosevelt so just as a reminder as a reminder as a reminder but theodore roosevelt one of the things but theodore roosevelt one of the things but theodore roosevelt one of the things that i did is that i did is that i did is um two concepts one his environmental um two concepts one his environmental um two concepts one his environmental policies i thought they were awesome policies i thought they were awesome policies i thought they were awesome you know he's the one guy that i've ever you know he's the one guy that i've ever you know he's the one guy that i've ever seen who pushed the best environmental seen who pushed the best environmental seen who pushed the best environmental policies in terms of a president policies in terms of a president policies in terms of a president and i think that to me something that and i think that to me something that and i think that to me something that should be a bipartisan issue should be should be a bipartisan issue should be should be a bipartisan issue should be something that everybody goes behind something that everybody goes behind something that everybody goes behind because because because it doesn't matter where you fit it doesn't matter where you fit it doesn't matter where you fit ideologically if you have uh ideologically if you have uh ideologically if you have uh poison in your water or in the air you poison in your water or in the air you poison in your water or in the air you breathe breathe breathe so somebody who made that a priority is so somebody who made that a priority is so somebody who made that a priority is important to me important to me important to me and also i really like his willingness and also i really like his willingness and also i really like his willingness to challenge the corruption to challenge the corruption to challenge the corruption in both parties you know he's to this in both parties you know he's to this in both parties you know he's to this day he's the best day he's the best day he's the best third-party effort ever in modern times third-party effort ever in modern times third-party effort ever in modern times he he was very open about he he was very open about he he was very open about going hard against the people in his going hard against the people in his going hard against the people in his party as well as people in party as well as people in party as well as people in other parties you know there's a court other parties you know there's a court other parties you know there's a court office that i really love that and office that i really love that and office that i really love that and granted you know quotes are easy to granted you know quotes are easy to granted you know quotes are easy to stuff is easy to say every politician stuff is easy to say every politician stuff is easy to say every politician can deliver a good speech and then not can deliver a good speech and then not can deliver a good speech and then not follow up but in terms of the way he did follow up but in terms of the way he did follow up but in terms of the way he did follow follow follow up on some of these issues something i up on some of these issues something i up on some of these issues something i like but there's this quote where he like but there's this quote where he like but there's this quote where he goes goes goes political parties exist to secure

political parties exist to secure political parties exist to secure responsible government responsible government responsible government and to execute the will of the people and to execute the will of the people and to execute the will of the people from these great tasks both of the old from these great tasks both of the old from these great tasks both of the old parties have turned aside parties have turned aside parties have turned aside instead of instruments to promote the instead of instruments to promote the instead of instruments to promote the general welfare general welfare general welfare they have become the tools of corrupt they have become the tools of corrupt they have become the tools of corrupt interests which use them impartially interests which use them impartially interests which use them impartially to serve their selfish purposes behind to serve their selfish purposes behind to serve their selfish purposes behind ostensible government seats and thrown ostensible government seats and thrown ostensible government seats and thrown an invisible government an invisible government an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no owing no allegiance and acknowledging no owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people responsibility to the people responsibility to the people to destroy this invisible government to to destroy this invisible government to to destroy this invisible government to dissolve the unholy alliance between dissolve the unholy alliance between dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics corrupt business and corrupt politics corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statementship is the first task of the statementship is the first task of the statementship of the day of the day of the day i don't disagree with a coma in there i don't disagree with a coma in there i don't disagree with a coma in there you know it's like you know it's like you know it's like everything is that on and i found that everything is that on and i found that everything is that on and i found that his actions in terms of cracking down on his actions in terms of cracking down on his actions in terms of cracking down on corruption were corruption were corruption were particularly needed so when you put particularly needed so when you put particularly needed so when you put those two together you know his those two together you know his those two together you know his environmental policies and his attitude environmental policies and his attitude environmental policies and his attitude in terms of in terms of in terms of factionalism slash corruption those are factionalism slash corruption those are factionalism slash corruption those are characteristics that i think are characteristics that i think are characteristics that i think are extremely important to this day extremely important to this day extremely important to this day you know i always was fascinated with you know i always was fascinated with you know i always was fascinated with the you know if you talk about like life the you know if you talk about like life the you know if you talk about like life lessons lessons lessons it would have it would have been it would have it would have been it would have it would have been interesting had roosevelt gone through interesting had roosevelt gone through interesting had roosevelt gone through in my opinion i mean one of the things i in my opinion i mean one of the things i in my opinion i mean one of the things i find interesting about the guy is he find interesting about the guy is he find interesting about the guy is he he's a very uh for those who don't he's a very uh for those who don't he's a very uh for those who don't remember remember remember or know roosevelt was um and i i always or know roosevelt was um and i i always or know roosevelt was um and i i always called him an adrenaline junkie called him an adrenaline junkie called him an adrenaline junkie yeah i always think about teddy yeah i always think about teddy yeah i always think about teddy roosevelt in terms of

roosevelt in terms of roosevelt in terms of how what kind of a present he would have how what kind of a present he would have how what kind of a present he would have been more been more been more at the end of his life than when he at the end of his life than when he at the end of his life than when he actually was because actually was because actually was because when he was president in some ways he when he was president in some ways he when he was president in some ways he reminded me of my grandfather who i reminded me of my grandfather who i reminded me of my grandfather who i always thought was like batman and teddy always thought was like batman and teddy always thought was like batman and teddy roosevelt always wanted to be like roosevelt always wanted to be like roosevelt always wanted to be like batman and when i was a kid i loved batman and when i was a kid i loved batman and when i was a kid i loved teddy roosevelt teddy roosevelt teddy roosevelt because he was like a big kid who played because he was like a big kid who played because he was like a big kid who played with toy soldiers and thought all that with toy soldiers and thought all that with toy soldiers and thought all that would i mean would i mean would i mean yeah i mean that to me that that's yeah i mean that to me that that's yeah i mean that to me that that's that's i liked that as a present but as that's i liked that as a present but as that's i liked that as a present but as i got older i thought okay this is a i got older i thought okay this is a i got older i thought okay this is a dangerous guy who thinks war dangerous guy who thinks war dangerous guy who thinks war is wonderful and heroic and grand but is wonderful and heroic and grand but is wonderful and heroic and grand but but here's the thing but here's the thing but here's the thing you know he goes through it and and by you know he goes through it and and by you know he goes through it and and by the way his experience as we all know the way his experience as we all know the way his experience as we all know when he was fighting when he was fighting when he was fighting uh in the spanish-american war in his uh in the spanish-american war in his uh in the spanish-american war in his mind was glorious at grant and he had a mind was glorious at grant and he had a mind was glorious at grant and he had a great time and it was wonderful you know great time and it was wonderful you know great time and it was wonderful you know war was a game war was a game war was a game then but then you get to the first world then but then you get to the first world then but then you get to the first world war which he actively wanted to get into war which he actively wanted to get into war which he actively wanted to get into and he loses kids right his kids and he loses kids right his kids and he loses kids right his kids die in the war um and it changed him die in the war um and it changed him die in the war um and it changed him you know i mean and and that is the you know i mean and and that is the you know i mean and and that is the roosevelt roosevelt roosevelt that happens after that happens that happens after that happens that happens after that happens might have been in my mind a more might have been in my mind a more might have been in my mind a more well-rounded figure well-rounded figure well-rounded figure than the guy who was actually in the than the guy who was actually in the than the guy who was actually in the white house um white house um white house um so so in that sense i think in a weird so so in that sense i think in a weird so so in that sense i think in a weird way and it sounds like way and it sounds like way and it sounds like like uh disrespectful to say so but i like uh disrespectful to say so but i like uh disrespectful to say so but i mean i feel like the guy mean i feel like the guy mean i feel like the guy grew up uh in a way that would have made grew up uh in a way that would have made grew up uh in a way that would have made him him him uh like you said i mean a president who uh like you said i mean a president who uh like you said i mean a president who fights corruption and he was known as fights corruption and he was known as fights corruption and he was known as the trust buster i mean he would have the trust buster i mean he would have the trust buster i mean he would have gone in gone in gone in and taken on some of the big and taken on some of the big and taken on some of the big corporations today which you know what i corporations today which you know what i corporations today which you know what i always argue by the way this is on the always argue by the way this is on the always argue by the way this is on the side but what i always argue these

side but what i always argue these side but what i always argue these americans who want a tiny tiny tiny americans who want a tiny tiny tiny americans who want a tiny tiny tiny little government little government little government is then who's going to protect us is then who's going to protect us is then who's going to protect us against the giant giant giant against the giant giant giant against the giant giant giant corporations right there's corporations right there's corporations right there's there's a balance there and teddy there's a balance there and teddy there's a balance there and teddy roosevelt understood roosevelt understood roosevelt understood that the government needs to be like a that the government needs to be like a that the government needs to be like a fire which is what an a fire which is what an a fire which is what an a early american uh writer once said a early american uh writer once said a early american uh writer once said a president once said the government is president once said the government is president once said the government is like fire uh that you know if you don't like fire uh that you know if you don't like fire uh that you know if you don't have it you freeze to death but if it have it you freeze to death but if it have it you freeze to death but if it gets out of control it burns everything gets out of control it burns everything gets out of control it burns everything around it but what that means it is it around it but what that means it is it around it but what that means it is it needs to be tended needs to be tended needs to be tended at just the right level just the right at just the right level just the right at just the right level just the right level is one that could protect the level is one that could protect the level is one that could protect the people from something like people from something like people from something like a giant international corporation that a giant international corporation that a giant international corporation that runs roughshod over our rights and runs roughshod over our rights and runs roughshod over our rights and freedoms freedoms freedoms but not so large that it runs roughshod but not so large that it runs roughshod but not so large that it runs roughshod over our rights and freedoms over our rights and freedoms over our rights and freedoms so uh yeah i get it it's interesting so uh yeah i get it it's interesting so uh yeah i get it it's interesting that both you and i picked republican that both you and i picked republican that both you and i picked republican presidents isn't it presidents isn't it presidents isn't it i know it's fine well i mean even the i know it's fine well i mean even the i know it's fine well i mean even the definition of that's why you know definition of that's why you know definition of that's why you know democrat republican to me is like democrat republican to me is like democrat republican to me is like especially when you go far back in time especially when you go far back in time especially when you go far back in time you know that's why you know that's why you know that's why eventually roosevelt didn't fit in with eventually roosevelt didn't fit in with eventually roosevelt didn't fit in with anybody you know he didn't fit in with anybody you know he didn't fit in with anybody you know he didn't fit in with the republican party he didn't fit in the republican party he didn't fit in the republican party he didn't fit in with the democratic party he was his own with the democratic party he was his own with the democratic party he was his own thing thing thing because he upset them all you know he because he upset them all you know he because he upset them all you know he did things that the powers that be did things that the powers that be did things that the powers that be didn't like on didn't like on didn't like on in any direction and in some way in any direction and in some way in any direction and in some way ideologically he would be considered ideologically he would be considered ideologically he would be considered very right-wing and in some ways very right-wing and in some ways very right-wing and in some ways ideologically would be considered very ideologically would be considered very ideologically would be considered very left-wing left-wing left-wing that's another thing that i dig about that's another thing that i dig about that's another thing that i dig about him the fact that he didn't seem to be a him the fact that he didn't seem to be a him the fact that he didn't seem to be a slave to an ideology always going with slave to an ideology always going with slave to an ideology always going with the playbook of his party but very much the playbook of his party but very much the playbook of his party but very much making up his mind as he went making up his mind as he went making up his mind as he went not feeling the need to constantly

not feeling the need to constantly not feeling the need to constantly fit in with what's considered acceptable fit in with what's considered acceptable fit in with what's considered acceptable by his voters which i think was kind of by his voters which i think was kind of by his voters which i think was kind of what made him fun what made him fun what made him fun you didn't know what he was going to you didn't know what he was going to you didn't know what he was going to argue before he jumped in argue before he jumped in argue before he jumped in well and maybe we could put a wonderful well and maybe we could put a wonderful well and maybe we could put a wonderful bow tie on the whole conversation here bow tie on the whole conversation here bow tie on the whole conversation here because you had mentioned that the because you had mentioned that the because you had mentioned that the you know to talk about democrats and you know to talk about democrats and you know to talk about democrats and republicans uh before the modern era is republicans uh before the modern era is republicans uh before the modern era is to talk about parties that were so to talk about parties that were so to talk about parties that were so different that the comparisons don't different that the comparisons don't different that the comparisons don't even work anymore even work anymore even work anymore um a perfect example of that is when i um a perfect example of that is when i um a perfect example of that is when i was uh looking for roosevelt franklin was uh looking for roosevelt franklin was uh looking for roosevelt franklin delano roosevelt speeches for the latest delano roosevelt speeches for the latest delano roosevelt speeches for the latest hardcore history show hardcore history show hardcore history show i was listening to some of the campaign i was listening to some of the campaign i was listening to some of the campaign speeches speeches speeches uh of that era so we're talking about uh of that era so we're talking about uh of that era so we're talking about the 1940 the 1940 the 1940 presidential campaign so roosevelt's presidential campaign so roosevelt's presidential campaign so roosevelt's opponent was a guy named wendell wilkie opponent was a guy named wendell wilkie opponent was a guy named wendell wilkie who was a a businessman who was a a businessman who was a a businessman the republican and he's giving speeches the republican and he's giving speeches the republican and he's giving speeches and if you went and looked and you can and if you went and looked and you can and if you went and looked and you can find them online find them online find them online to his speech or his conversation to the to his speech or his conversation to the to his speech or his conversation to the camera i don't think it was an official camera i don't think it was an official camera i don't think it was an official speech it was more like a speech it was more like a speech it was more like a a um what would you call it a filmed a um what would you call it a filmed a um what would you call it a filmed campaign commercial maybe by that campaign commercial maybe by that campaign commercial maybe by that standards of that era you can see how standards of that era you can see how standards of that era you can see how much the united states has moved to the much the united states has moved to the much the united states has moved to the right right right totally because if i if i played totally because if i if i played totally because if i if i played wilkie's speech today and i didn't wilkie's speech today and i didn't wilkie's speech today and i didn't identify what it was identify what it was identify what it was there is not a person who would hear it there is not a person who would hear it there is not a person who would hear it who would think that it was anything but who would think that it was anything but who would think that it was anything but a leftist speech a leftist speech a leftist speech but remember that this is the guy to the but remember that this is the guy to the but remember that this is the guy to the right of the guy right of the guy right of the guy who's gonna crush him in the election who's gonna crush him in the election who's gonna crush him in the election right so uh right so uh right so uh so to me that you know we talked about so to me that you know we talked about so to me that you know we talked about goldwater being the real person who goldwater being the real person who goldwater being the real person who changed changed changed the american conservative movement uh the american conservative movement uh the american conservative movement uh from where it was to where it is which from where it was to where it is which from where it was to where it is which was a hard move to the right and then

was a hard move to the right and then was a hard move to the right and then what reagan did who supposedly what reagan did who supposedly what reagan did who supposedly you know goldwater laid the the you know goldwater laid the the you know goldwater laid the the foundation for reagan who 15 foundation for reagan who 15 foundation for reagan who 15 14 years later you know comes to 14 years later you know comes to 14 years later you know comes to fruition reagan moved the democratic fruition reagan moved the democratic fruition reagan moved the democratic party party party to the right both parties are to the to the right both parties are to the to the right both parties are to the right of where they were right of where they were right of where they were in 1940 which if you said to somebody in 1940 which if you said to somebody in 1940 which if you said to somebody who wants to make america great who wants to make america great who wants to make america great were we great in 1940 they would were we great in 1940 they would were we great in 1940 they would probably say well probably say well probably say well greater than we are today go look at the greater than we are today go look at the greater than we are today go look at the campaign speeches from both the campaign speeches from both the campaign speeches from both the democratic and republican presidential democratic and republican presidential democratic and republican presidential hopefuls in 1940 hopefuls in 1940 hopefuls in 1940 and see if you could agree with either and see if you could agree with either and see if you could agree with either one of those if you're on the one of those if you're on the one of those if you're on the conservative side of things now conservative side of things now conservative side of things now yeah that's one of the funny things yeah that's one of the funny things yeah that's one of the funny things about looking at it historically and not about looking at it historically and not about looking at it historically and not just being stuck in the present that just being stuck in the present that just being stuck in the present that yeah you do see these changes and you yeah you do see these changes and you yeah you do see these changes and you can't help can't help can't help but smile at it because yes there would but smile at it because yes there would but smile at it because yes there would be a shock to a lot of people be a shock to a lot of people be a shock to a lot of people well listen as you know i'm not saying well listen as you know i'm not saying well listen as you know i'm not saying that this is right or wrong that this is right or wrong that this is right or wrong i'm simply this is not fake news i mean i'm simply this is not fake news i mean i'm simply this is not fake news i mean people can go check this out for people can go check this out for people can go check this out for themselves you may say thank goodness themselves you may say thank goodness themselves you may say thank goodness the united states the united states the united states and the world has moved to the right and the world has moved to the right and the world has moved to the right politically politically politically or you may say it's a tragedy but it's or you may say it's a tragedy but it's or you may say it's a tragedy but it's fascinating fascinating fascinating that we have and that things i mean the that we have and that things i mean the that we have and that things i mean the republican presidential hopeful republican presidential hopeful republican presidential hopeful in 1940 is talking about expanding in 1940 is talking about expanding in 1940 is talking about expanding social programs that today social programs that today social programs that today people on the right side of the ledger people on the right side of the ledger people on the right side of the ledger want to get rid of totally so it's it want to get rid of totally so it's it want to get rid of totally so it's it again you know when we talk about going again you know when we talk about going again you know when we talk about going back to another america back to another america back to another america i don't think people understand what the i don't think people understand what the i don't think people understand what the other america was other america was other america was and this is why i have such a hard time and this is why i have such a hard time and this is why i have such a hard time doing my current event show now because

doing my current event show now because doing my current event show now because that was always what i was suggesting that was always what i was suggesting that was always what i was suggesting that we need to get back to that we need to get back to that we need to get back to some of the foundational ideas that when some of the foundational ideas that when some of the foundational ideas that when i was a kid nobody would have argued i was a kid nobody would have argued i was a kid nobody would have argued with you might have argued over with you might have argued over with you might have argued over um if i said we need to get more liberty um if i said we need to get more liberty um if i said we need to get more liberty because we've been reducing our personal because we've been reducing our personal because we've been reducing our personal freedom and all that a lot of people say freedom and all that a lot of people say freedom and all that a lot of people say yeah yeah yeah yeah but then when you get down to the yeah but then when you get down to the yeah but then when you get down to the specifics might argue with oh i don't specifics might argue with oh i don't specifics might argue with oh i don't mean that or i don't mean this mean that or i don't mean this mean that or i don't mean this but today when i say things like that i but today when i say things like that i but today when i say things like that i get pushback from young people on both get pushback from young people on both get pushback from young people on both sides of the political spectrum sides of the political spectrum sides of the political spectrum in other words i as an old-fashioned in other words i as an old-fashioned in other words i as an old-fashioned american american american am so out of touch with today's am so out of touch with today's am so out of touch with today's political political political world because they're not like that world because they're not like that world because they're not like that so i so i have a hard time i mean in the so i so i have a hard time i mean in the so i so i have a hard time i mean in the old days you used to be able to base an old days you used to be able to base an old days you used to be able to base an argument argument argument on certain fundamental truths that on certain fundamental truths that on certain fundamental truths that everyone agreed with and now no one everyone agreed with and now no one everyone agreed with and now no one agrees with those truths so agrees with those truths so agrees with those truths so even something like liberty that's a bad even something like liberty that's a bad even something like liberty that's a bad word in some circles now and when you word in some circles now and when you word in some circles now and when you use it in the circles that use it and use it in the circles that use it and use it in the circles that use it and like it they don't mean it the way i like it they don't mean it the way i like it they don't mean it the way i mean it mean it mean it absolutely i think that's one of the absolutely i think that's one of the absolutely i think that's one of the things that i've always noticed like things that i've always noticed like things that i've always noticed like when i argue with some people who are when i argue with some people who are when i argue with some people who are pushing pushing pushing it's all about freedom freedom freedom it's all about freedom freedom freedom it's all about freedom freedom freedom i'm like i get it i like freedom freedom i'm like i get it i like freedom freedom i'm like i get it i like freedom freedom is a cool thing so i'm assuming you are is a cool thing so i'm assuming you are is a cool thing so i'm assuming you are in favor of ending the war on drugs in favor of ending the war on drugs in favor of ending the war on drugs legalizing prostitution and legalizing legalizing prostitution and legalizing legalizing prostitution and legalizing euthanasia and they're like euthanasia and they're like euthanasia and they're like no no no that's not what i meant i'm no no no that's not what i meant i'm no no no that's not what i meant i'm like okay then probably we should have a like okay then probably we should have a like okay then probably we should have a dictionary talk first dictionary talk first dictionary talk first about what you mean when you say things about what you mean when you say things about what you mean when you say things like freedom because to me that's like freedom because to me that's like freedom because to me that's individual rights you know you have the individual rights you know you have the individual rights you know you have the right to put whatever you want in your right to put whatever you want in your right to put whatever you want in your body as long as you're not body as long as you're not body as long as you're not affecting somebody else if people want affecting somebody else if people want affecting somebody else if people want to sell sex to sell sex to sell sex as long as nobody's being forced they

as long as nobody's being forced they as long as nobody's being forced they have the right to do so have the right to do so have the right to do so and they have the right to die as they and they have the right to die as they and they have the right to die as they wish you know and i'm not even saying wish you know and i'm not even saying wish you know and i'm not even saying that's a good or a bad thing i'm just that's a good or a bad thing i'm just that's a good or a bad thing i'm just saying if you are gonna scream freedom saying if you are gonna scream freedom saying if you are gonna scream freedom probably that would be a consistent way probably that would be a consistent way probably that would be a consistent way to go about it to go about it to go about it but often as you say what people mean but often as you say what people mean but often as you say what people mean by certain words is not really by certain words is not really by certain words is not really it's not really the same meaning that it's not really the same meaning that it's not really the same meaning that everybody see and and that's why i think everybody see and and that's why i think everybody see and and that's why i think certain words are certain words are certain words are poison like we should the less we use poison like we should the less we use poison like we should the less we use them the better because them the better because them the better because they are so hopelessly vague they are so hopelessly vague they are so hopelessly vague that everybody project their own that everybody project their own that everybody project their own meanings on it you know meanings on it you know meanings on it you know when's the last time you were a when's the last time you were a when's the last time you were a candidate anywhere saying that they are candidate anywhere saying that they are candidate anywhere saying that they are against freedom against freedom against freedom that yeah we hate freedom and we need to that yeah we hate freedom and we need to that yeah we hate freedom and we need to squash freedom or squash freedom or squash freedom or when is it that we are you know terms when is it that we are you know terms when is it that we are you know terms even like even like even like left-wing right-wing as we started with left-wing right-wing as we started with left-wing right-wing as we started with are so vague are so vague are so vague terms like socialism communism there are terms like socialism communism there are terms like socialism communism there are all things that are like all things that are like all things that are like you can have a discussion going on for you can have a discussion going on for you can have a discussion going on for hours with somebody hours with somebody hours with somebody never realizing that you were not never realizing that you were not never realizing that you were not talking about the same thing in the talking about the same thing in the talking about the same thing in the first place because you assigned first place because you assigned first place because you assigned different meanings to those concepts different meanings to those concepts different meanings to those concepts and i think this is amplified on social and i think this is amplified on social and i think this is amplified on social media where you don't have the time to media where you don't have the time to media where you don't have the time to go hey wait stop a second what did you go hey wait stop a second what did you go hey wait stop a second what did you mean by that mean by that mean by that and so this discussion go on forever and so this discussion go on forever and so this discussion go on forever where where where really there's not even an agreement really there's not even an agreement really there's not even an agreement about what it is they are talking about about what it is they are talking about about what it is they are talking about except that you're using the same word except that you're using the same word except that you're using the same word well it's like what we had said when i well it's like what we had said when i well it's like what we had said when i said that there was that uh translation said that there was that uh translation said that there was that uh translation of the bill of rights into common of the bill of rights into common of the bill of rights into common language and people were against it language and people were against it language and people were against it uh there was a famous quote i forgot who

uh there was a famous quote i forgot who uh there was a famous quote i forgot who said it but it was it was years ago so said it but it was it was years ago so said it but it was it was years ago so it shows you how it shows you how it shows you how how little in some ways things have how little in some ways things have how little in some ways things have changed where i think it was a political changed where i think it was a political changed where i think it was a political figure may not have been who said the figure may not have been who said the figure may not have been who said the bill of rights would not even get out of bill of rights would not even get out of bill of rights would not even get out of committee committee committee if you tried to pass it today people if you tried to pass it today people if you tried to pass it today people today today today adhere to a bunch of marketing slogans adhere to a bunch of marketing slogans adhere to a bunch of marketing slogans like when you say like when you say like when you say uh uh the national anthem or the pledge uh uh the national anthem or the pledge uh uh the national anthem or the pledge of allegiance or any of these things and of allegiance or any of these things and of allegiance or any of these things and all these wonderful words come out uh uh all these wonderful words come out uh uh all these wonderful words come out uh uh and we cherish them and we almost treat and we cherish them and we almost treat and we cherish them and we almost treat them with a sort of a religious them with a sort of a religious them with a sort of a religious devotion but never delve into what they devotion but never delve into what they devotion but never delve into what they mean mean mean nor talk about you know what when you nor talk about you know what when you nor talk about you know what when you say something of liberty what is the say something of liberty what is the say something of liberty what is the practical meaning of that right practical meaning of that right practical meaning of that right and this is where you get into the and this is where you get into the and this is where you get into the devils in the details question devils in the details question devils in the details question but if i was in charge of the school but if i was in charge of the school but if i was in charge of the school curriculum these are the kind of things curriculum these are the kind of things curriculum these are the kind of things we would be asking right what do we mean we would be asking right what do we mean we would be asking right what do we mean are we talking about just are we talking about just are we talking about just political rights which is in one time political rights which is in one time political rights which is in one time period what they were period what they were period what they were talking about because in you know 1787 talking about because in you know 1787 talking about because in you know 1787 you had a lot of states that felt just you had a lot of states that felt just you had a lot of states that felt just fine cracking down on people's morals fine cracking down on people's morals fine cracking down on people's morals and didn't think about that as an and didn't think about that as an and didn't think about that as an infringement on their liberty at all infringement on their liberty at all infringement on their liberty at all but you go to the 1960s and there was a but you go to the 1960s and there was a but you go to the 1960s and there was a whole new generation of americans that whole new generation of americans that whole new generation of americans that were saying wait a minute we believe in were saying wait a minute we believe in were saying wait a minute we believe in liberty too but liberty liberty too but liberty liberty too but liberty means my right to do what i want as long means my right to do what i want as long means my right to do what i want as long as it doesn't hurt someone else what was as it doesn't hurt someone else what was as it doesn't hurt someone else what was that justice oliver wendell holmes said that justice oliver wendell holmes said that justice oliver wendell holmes said the right to swing my fist the right to swing my fist the right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins ends where the other man's nose begins ends where the other man's nose begins well what i've said is we live in an era well what i've said is we live in an era well what i've said is we live in an era where everybody's noses are growing where everybody's noses are growing where everybody's noses are growing euphemistically longer right and so so i euphemistically longer right and so so i euphemistically longer right and so so i mean mean mean if you if you change what constitutes if you if you change what constitutes if you if you change what constitutes harm that's the equivalent of being

harm that's the equivalent of being harm that's the equivalent of being pinocchio and it becomes pinocchio and it becomes pinocchio and it becomes a time period where now nobody can swing a time period where now nobody can swing a time period where now nobody can swing their fist without contacting someone's their fist without contacting someone's their fist without contacting someone's ever elongated nose ever elongated nose ever elongated nose which means that our liberty is all which means that our liberty is all which means that our liberty is all being is all being constrained being is all being constrained being is all being constrained because now we hurt people with comments because now we hurt people with comments because now we hurt people with comments on twitter on twitter on twitter right as opposed to uh the real right as opposed to uh the real right as opposed to uh the real infringement on liberty is telling infringement on liberty is telling infringement on liberty is telling somebody somebody somebody no you can't walk on this side of town no you can't walk on this side of town no you can't walk on this side of town that's an infringement on liberty that that's an infringement on liberty that that's an infringement on liberty that everybody everybody everybody 50 years ago would have understood 50 years ago would have understood 50 years ago would have understood didn't mean that they were going to let didn't mean that they were going to let didn't mean that they were going to let black folks cross over the tracks and go black folks cross over the tracks and go black folks cross over the tracks and go to their side of town but they would to their side of town but they would to their side of town but they would have have have understood it um in this day and age understood it um in this day and age understood it um in this day and age we're we're we're so easily hurt and if that becomes the so easily hurt and if that becomes the so easily hurt and if that becomes the oliver wendell holmes point at which we oliver wendell holmes point at which we oliver wendell holmes point at which we can restrict people's behavior and can restrict people's behavior and can restrict people's behavior and liberty liberty liberty we aren't going to be able to do we aren't going to be able to do we aren't going to be able to do anything yeah and that's a funny thing anything yeah and that's a funny thing anything yeah and that's a funny thing that that that everybody and this is across the everybody and this is across the everybody and this is across the political spectrum political spectrum political spectrum everybody seemed to love playing the everybody seemed to love playing the everybody seemed to love playing the victim the people who scream about victim the people who scream about victim the people who scream about how everybody else is playing the victim how everybody else is playing the victim how everybody else is playing the victim or often are doing it in a can you or often are doing it in a can you or often are doing it in a can you believe what they are doing to us kind believe what they are doing to us kind believe what they are doing to us kind of way of way of way there's this culture of victimhood there's this culture of victimhood there's this culture of victimhood that's that's that's people it's almost like you're scoring a people it's almost like you're scoring a people it's almost like you're scoring a point point point if you are the beaten underdog and if you are the beaten underdog and if you are the beaten underdog and people seem to really thrive on it like people seem to really thrive on it like people seem to really thrive on it like it seemed to be a popular concept today it seemed to be a popular concept today it seemed to be a popular concept today let me ask a question because i don't let me ask a question because i don't let me ask a question because i don't know the answer but i wonder about it a know the answer but i wonder about it a know the answer but i wonder about it a lot lot lot i'd be curious on your view sure i i i'd be curious on your view sure i i i'd be curious on your view sure i i can't decide can't decide can't decide if americans today and when i say if americans today and when i say if americans today and when i say americans today i'm talking about the americans today i'm talking about the americans today i'm talking about the grand hole but i think when we're grand hole but i think when we're grand hole but i think when we're talking about technology being the way

talking about technology being the way talking about technology being the way we've we figured this out we're probably we've we figured this out we're probably we've we figured this out we're probably skewing young skewing young skewing young on that right um are americans today on that right um are americans today on that right um are americans today just more jerks than they used to be just more jerks than they used to be just more jerks than they used to be or are we more able to express or are we more able to express or are we more able to express ourselves and so we see that americans ourselves and so we see that americans ourselves and so we see that americans and i'm saying americans but and i'm saying americans but and i'm saying americans but this is a global phenomenon um is this a this is a global phenomenon um is this a this is a global phenomenon um is this a culture where culture where culture where we're just trolls to each other we're just trolls to each other we're just trolls to each other all the time or is this all the time or is this all the time or is this because of our ability to express because of our ability to express because of our ability to express ourselves has become democratized with ourselves has become democratized with ourselves has become democratized with social media and everything social media and everything social media and everything that we're just seeing how americans and that we're just seeing how americans and that we're just seeing how americans and other people around the world would have other people around the world would have other people around the world would have been been been 50 years ago had they had the tools i 50 years ago had they had the tools i 50 years ago had they had the tools i mean had had nazi germany been on mean had had nazi germany been on mean had had nazi germany been on twitter twitter twitter with uh with with uh uh chamberlain's with uh with with uh uh chamberlain's with uh with with uh uh chamberlain's britain britain britain and france of the time period and and france of the time period and and france of the time period and imperial japan i mean can we imagine imperial japan i mean can we imagine imperial japan i mean can we imagine the 1940s world with our social media the 1940s world with our social media the 1940s world with our social media now would we have been any nicer to each now would we have been any nicer to each now would we have been any nicer to each other or is this other or is this other or is this in other words i guess i'm asking is in other words i guess i'm asking is in other words i guess i'm asking is this a human phenomenon or are we seeing this a human phenomenon or are we seeing this a human phenomenon or are we seeing a change in people's attitudes that is a a change in people's attitudes that is a a change in people's attitudes that is a result of the interplay between social result of the interplay between social result of the interplay between social media media media and our political situation i think my and our political situation i think my and our political situation i think my feel on it is that it's 80 human nature feel on it is that it's 80 human nature feel on it is that it's 80 human nature and 20 some social conditions that have and 20 some social conditions that have and 20 some social conditions that have changed partially because of technology changed partially because of technology changed partially because of technology but also just loneliness and alienation but also just loneliness and alienation but also just loneliness and alienation you know it's very different if you're you know it's very different if you're you know it's very different if you're having discussions having discussions having discussions if there's a community that you're part if there's a community that you're part if there's a community that you're part of if you have discussions face to face of if you have discussions face to face of if you have discussions face to face if you are used to mediating in their if you are used to mediating in their if you are used to mediating in their regard regard regard or if you are in your lonely four walls

or if you are in your lonely four walls or if you are in your lonely four walls and one roof and and one roof and and one roof and you don't need to have that kind of you don't need to have that kind of you don't need to have that kind of you don't grow that muscle that allow you don't grow that muscle that allow you don't grow that muscle that allow you to mediate with other people on a you to mediate with other people on a you to mediate with other people on a regular basis because you don't have to regular basis because you don't have to regular basis because you don't have to and so your communication is going to be and so your communication is going to be and so your communication is going to be inevitably much more abrupt and inevitably much more abrupt and inevitably much more abrupt and harsh i think both fact i i tend to say harsh i think both fact i i tend to say harsh i think both fact i i tend to say human nature is human nature it doesn't human nature is human nature it doesn't human nature is human nature it doesn't change radically change radically change radically but i do think that uh online but i do think that uh online but i do think that uh online communication communication communication and and heavy loneliness that most and and heavy loneliness that most and and heavy loneliness that most people feel by people feel by people feel by not really being part of something not really being part of something not really being part of something larger than often what's going on within larger than often what's going on within larger than often what's going on within their own four walls their own four walls their own four walls that contributes to not developing that that contributes to not developing that that contributes to not developing that ability ability ability to have more nuance or metal to have more nuance or metal to have more nuance or metal conversations with other human beings conversations with other human beings conversations with other human beings let me tie in something that may or may let me tie in something that may or may let me tie in something that may or may not be relevant but it's interesting not be relevant but it's interesting not be relevant but it's interesting because as you say that i'm thinking because as you say that i'm thinking because as you say that i'm thinking about about about something i was discussing with somebody something i was discussing with somebody something i was discussing with somebody just the other day and it has to do with just the other day and it has to do with just the other day and it has to do with several articles i've been reading several articles i've been reading several articles i've been reading about young people not dating as much as about young people not dating as much as about young people not dating as much as they used to they used to they used to uh not having i mean in other words not uh not having i mean in other words not uh not having i mean in other words not going out to clubs to meet each other going out to clubs to meet each other going out to clubs to meet each other the way we used to when i was a kid in the way we used to when i was a kid in the way we used to when i was a kid in other words other words other words if you think of young people as having a if you think of young people as having a if you think of young people as having a constant sort of a constant sort of a constant sort of a temperament throughout most of history temperament throughout most of history temperament throughout most of history right we're going to go out we're going right we're going to go out we're going right we're going to go out we're going to meet some girls we're going to go out to meet some girls we're going to go out to meet some girls we're going to go out you know i mean all these things that we you know i mean all these things that we you know i mean all these things that we used to consider to be just normal human used to consider to be just normal human used to consider to be just normal human things when we were kids things when we were kids things when we were kids fast forward to now where we've fast forward to now where we've fast forward to now where we've introduced a variable introduced a variable introduced a variable uh the technology right something that uh the technology right something that uh the technology right something that had never been a part of the debate had never been a part of the debate had never been a part of the debate before before before and now we're seeing a generation of

and now we're seeing a generation of and now we're seeing a generation of people and again broad generalizations people and again broad generalizations people and again broad generalizations here but i mean i've got two kids who here but i mean i've got two kids who here but i mean i've got two kids who are teenagers myself are teenagers myself are teenagers myself they don't date as much as we did they they don't date as much as we did they they don't date as much as we did they they don't they don't they don't have face-to-face conversations they have face-to-face conversations they have face-to-face conversations they don't know how to walk up to somebody don't know how to walk up to somebody don't know how to walk up to somebody that makes them nervous that makes them nervous that makes them nervous and ask them out i mean maybe and ask them out i mean maybe and ask them out i mean maybe this is something that's a variable that this is something that's a variable that this is something that's a variable that changes an equation that used to be changes an equation that used to be changes an equation that used to be pretty consistent pretty consistent pretty consistent throughout most of human history because throughout most of human history because throughout most of human history because we were dealing with human beings and we were dealing with human beings and we were dealing with human beings and they can be pretty consistent they can be pretty consistent they can be pretty consistent you know across a variable spectrum but you know across a variable spectrum but you know across a variable spectrum but but but you add this social media thing but but you add this social media thing but but you add this social media thing and and i say social media but it's the and and i say social media but it's the and and i say social media but it's the whole thing right social media whole thing right social media whole thing right social media encompassing everything including encompassing everything including encompassing everything including texting i mean everything texting i mean everything texting i mean everything um and you have an entire uh um and you have an entire uh um and you have an entire uh maybe generation and it's going to be maybe generation and it's going to be maybe generation and it's going to be interesting when they're the parents interesting when they're the parents interesting when they're the parents raising the next generation raising the next generation raising the next generation of people who interact with each other of people who interact with each other of people who interact with each other in very different ways and so in very different ways and so in very different ways and so maybe you know in the same way that i maybe you know in the same way that i maybe you know in the same way that i would have thought it would be much would have thought it would be much would have thought it would be much easier to ask a girl out on a date just easier to ask a girl out on a date just easier to ask a girl out on a date just by texting her than having to walk up in by texting her than having to walk up in by texting her than having to walk up in front of her and deal with the front of her and deal with the front of her and deal with the the embarrassment of being shot down in the embarrassment of being shot down in the embarrassment of being shot down in person if that happens maybe it's easier person if that happens maybe it's easier person if that happens maybe it's easier to call somebody a jerk to call somebody a jerk to call somebody a jerk or maybe it's easier to say you know to or maybe it's easier to say you know to or maybe it's easier to say you know to pick a fight or call people names when pick a fight or call people names when pick a fight or call people names when you don't have to do it face to face you don't have to do it face to face you don't have to do it face to face maybe that's a maybe that's a maybe that's a function of the technology absolutely function of the technology absolutely function of the technology absolutely and i think that and i think that and i think that is uh i mean we're changing the rules of is uh i mean we're changing the rules of is uh i mean we're changing the rules of human communication in human communication in human communication in within a couple of decades and within a couple of decades and within a couple of decades and we have no blueprint for how to do it we have no blueprint for how to do it we have no blueprint for how to do it you know it's kind of like somebody who

you know it's kind of like somebody who you know it's kind of like somebody who gathered the wheel of a car gathered the wheel of a car gathered the wheel of a car and has never known anybody who drove a and has never known anybody who drove a and has never known anybody who drove a car never drawn a car car never drawn a car car never drawn a car they don't have any user manual they don't have any user manual they don't have any user manual and it's just like go ahead let's see and it's just like go ahead let's see and it's just like go ahead let's see what happens kind of thing what happens kind of thing what happens kind of thing we are playing a dangerous game it's a we are playing a dangerous game it's a we are playing a dangerous game it's a health in some ways a beautiful game health in some ways a beautiful game health in some ways a beautiful game because so many amazing things have because so many amazing things have because so many amazing things have happened in the last 20 years because of happened in the last 20 years because of happened in the last 20 years because of technological innovation so by no means technological innovation so by no means technological innovation so by no means the the the back in my days before this evil back in my days before this evil back in my days before this evil technology screwed us all up that's not technology screwed us all up that's not technology screwed us all up that's not what i'm saying at all what i'm saying at all what i'm saying at all but there are clearly some issues that but there are clearly some issues that but there are clearly some issues that we haven't really figured out how to we haven't really figured out how to we haven't really figured out how to deal with deal with deal with that are as much as they are that are as much as they are that are as much as they are contributing to creating more contributing to creating more contributing to creating more opportunities and some amazing stuff opportunities and some amazing stuff opportunities and some amazing stuff they're also contributing to some they're also contributing to some they're also contributing to some serious problems that we have no serious problems that we have no serious problems that we have no solution to solution to solution to i think that leads into the last thing i think that leads into the last thing i think that leads into the last thing we were thinking about discussing today we were thinking about discussing today we were thinking about discussing today the the the the trends and forces and the ability of the trends and forces and the ability of the trends and forces and the ability of an individual an individual an individual uh to make a difference in an era where uh to make a difference in an era where uh to make a difference in an era where it seems like there's so much it seems like there's so much it seems like there's so much um uh uh how would you describe it um uh uh how would you describe it um uh uh how would you describe it danielle i mean we always used to just danielle i mean we always used to just danielle i mean we always used to just call it trends and forces call it trends and forces call it trends and forces uh versus individual initiative but i uh versus individual initiative but i uh versus individual initiative but i mean in this social media thing i mean i mean in this social media thing i mean i mean in this social media thing i mean i was just uh was just uh was just uh i was reading a review of a book by uh i was reading a review of a book by uh i was reading a review of a book by uh shashana shashana shashana zubov it's called surveillance zubov it's called surveillance zubov it's called surveillance capitalism and it's just another one in capitalism and it's just another one in capitalism and it's just another one in a long line of books that's explaining a long line of books that's explaining a long line of books that's explaining how how how we're being diced and and and we're being diced and and and we're being diced and and and categorized and categorized and categorized and files are essentially being kept on all files are essentially being kept on all files are essentially being kept on all of us based on browsing histories and of us based on browsing histories and of us based on browsing histories and all these kind of things all these kind of things all these kind of things and how dangerous this is if you think and how dangerous this is if you think and how dangerous this is if you think about

about about you know what's going to happen down the you know what's going to happen down the you know what's going to happen down the road with all of this and yet road with all of this and yet road with all of this and yet how passive so many of the younger how passive so many of the younger how passive so many of the younger generation are about this and passive generation are about this and passive generation are about this and passive not so much because not so much because not so much because maybe they don't see that it might be maybe they don't see that it might be maybe they don't see that it might be bad but passive because they feel bad but passive because they feel bad but passive because they feel powerless powerless powerless it what are you gonna do right are you it what are you gonna do right are you it what are you gonna do right are you not gonna participate in the modern not gonna participate in the modern not gonna participate in the modern world just because everybody world just because everybody world just because everybody is is putting together uh uh predictive is is putting together uh uh predictive is is putting together uh uh predictive technologies that will begin to be able technologies that will begin to be able technologies that will begin to be able to to to to know where you're going to be next to know where you're going to be next to know where you're going to be next week ahead of time um week ahead of time um week ahead of time um maybe let's let's introduce this topic maybe let's let's introduce this topic maybe let's let's introduce this topic because it was the last thing we wanted because it was the last thing we wanted because it was the last thing we wanted to discuss today but the question of to discuss today but the question of to discuss today but the question of of how much individual initiative can of how much individual initiative can of how much individual initiative can play a role play a role play a role versus the trends and forces that are versus the trends and forces that are versus the trends and forces that are we're all operating in we're all operating in we're all operating in and i think that is the problem sometime and i think that is the problem sometime and i think that is the problem sometime with slow moving catastrophes with slow moving catastrophes with slow moving catastrophes you know you see where it's going you you know you see where it's going you you know you see where it's going you can tell can tell can tell way ahead that the direction is not a way ahead that the direction is not a way ahead that the direction is not a healthy one healthy one healthy one and yet there is nothing you can do to and yet there is nothing you can do to and yet there is nothing you can do to steer it or at least you don't feel like steer it or at least you don't feel like steer it or at least you don't feel like think like things like uh you know your think like things like uh you know your think like things like uh you know your series that you did on the fall of the series that you did on the fall of the series that you did on the fall of the roman republic for example roman republic for example roman republic for example it's very clear that the trends you it's very clear that the trends you it's very clear that the trends you analyze don't happen overnight they analyze don't happen overnight they analyze don't happen overnight they don't happen in one year or in 10 or in don't happen in one year or in 10 or in don't happen in one year or in 10 or in 50. you can see them from like 200 years 50. you can see them from like 200 years 50. you can see them from like 200 years before this process is beginning before this process is beginning before this process is beginning and many people are seeing it along the and many people are seeing it along the and many people are seeing it along the way way way they scream and shout saying we need to they scream and shout saying we need to they scream and shout saying we need to do something about it and clearly nobody do something about it and clearly nobody do something about it and clearly nobody is able to course correct for real and is able to course correct for real and is able to course correct for real and avoid where the whole scenario is going avoid where the whole scenario is going avoid where the whole scenario is going sometime you know there is something to

sometime you know there is something to sometime you know there is something to be said about be said about be said about you don't want to say oh throw up your you don't want to say oh throw up your you don't want to say oh throw up your arms and say we're all powerless forget arms and say we're all powerless forget arms and say we're all powerless forget it let's just have fun while we can it let's just have fun while we can it let's just have fun while we can because it's all going in a bad because it's all going in a bad because it's all going in a bad direction anyway direction anyway direction anyway but at the same time sometimes you but at the same time sometimes you but at the same time sometimes you wonder how much as an individual you wonder how much as an individual you wonder how much as an individual you have an impact on major historical have an impact on major historical have an impact on major historical forces i think you know in history we forces i think you know in history we forces i think you know in history we have examples of both have examples of both have examples of both we have examples of individuals who have we have examples of individuals who have we have examples of individuals who have managed to make a humongous difference managed to make a humongous difference managed to make a humongous difference but we have even more examples of times but we have even more examples of times but we have even more examples of times where you see where things are going where you see where things are going where you see where things are going without the ability to do something without the ability to do something without the ability to do something about it i mean about it i mean about it i mean i mentioned earlier since something like i mentioned earlier since something like i mentioned earlier since something like environmental issues environmental issues environmental issues the fact that we live on a society the fact that we live on a society the fact that we live on a society that's essentially that's essentially that's essentially polluting the very food we eat or the polluting the very food we eat or the polluting the very food we eat or the air we breathe air we breathe air we breathe and we we all know it we all understand and we we all know it we all understand and we we all know it we all understand that that's a problem nobody likes it that that's a problem nobody likes it that that's a problem nobody likes it and yet we're not able to make a switch and yet we're not able to make a switch and yet we're not able to make a switch or you know if we are able we're taking or you know if we are able we're taking or you know if we are able we're taking very small steps very small steps very small steps when something is moving faster and more when something is moving faster and more when something is moving faster and more action is needed action is needed action is needed that tells you a lot about this scene that tells you a lot about this scene that tells you a lot about this scene and you know you can look at basically and you know you can look at basically and you know you can look at basically every major civilization that has every major civilization that has every major civilization that has collapsed collapsed collapsed usually the warning signs were there usually the warning signs were there usually the warning signs were there long before they did collapse it didn't long before they did collapse it didn't long before they did collapse it didn't happen in one day happen in one day happen in one day and yet despite the fact that there were and yet despite the fact that there were and yet despite the fact that there were probably very smart people living in probably very smart people living in probably very smart people living in those places those places those places didn't help being able to fix it didn't help being able to fix it didn't help being able to fix it so i'm not sure whether i have a so i'm not sure whether i have a so i'm not sure whether i have a pessimistic or optimistic view of things pessimistic or optimistic view of things pessimistic or optimistic view of things in this because i in this because i in this because i can't think of examples where occasional

can't think of examples where occasional can't think of examples where occasional individuals have made a big difference individuals have made a big difference individuals have made a big difference but i also get your but i also get your but i also get your i kind of see it as the same discussion i kind of see it as the same discussion i kind of see it as the same discussion as you do in common sense where you feel as you do in common sense where you feel as you do in common sense where you feel like like like easy really worth it am i making a easy really worth it am i making a easy really worth it am i making a difference is these difference is these difference is these uh can these really impact things uh can these really impact things uh can these really impact things or not i look at you know for me or not i look at you know for me or not i look at you know for me i think some of this problem i have a i think some of this problem i have a i think some of this problem i have a hard time with it because you know i've hard time with it because you know i've hard time with it because you know i've just spent just spent just spent some of this conversation talking about some of this conversation talking about some of this conversation talking about how much i believe in how much i believe in how much i believe in uh liberty and freedom and and and uh liberty and freedom and and and uh liberty and freedom and and and people and all these kinds of things and people and all these kinds of things and people and all these kinds of things and yet there are certain yet there are certain yet there are certain uh kinds of problems that don't lend uh kinds of problems that don't lend uh kinds of problems that don't lend itself itself itself it seems to me and again i could be it seems to me and again i could be it seems to me and again i could be wrong about this i think we're watching wrong about this i think we're watching wrong about this i think we're watching it unfold and i'm trying to it unfold and i'm trying to it unfold and i'm trying to to learn as we see it also but i mean to learn as we see it also but i mean to learn as we see it also but i mean there are certain kinds of issues that there are certain kinds of issues that there are certain kinds of issues that it seems like uh um it seems like uh um it seems like uh um ap instead of democracy because some of ap instead of democracy because some of ap instead of democracy because some of them are republic some of them are them are republic some of them are them are republic some of them are parliamentarians i mean people get hung parliamentarians i mean people get hung parliamentarians i mean people get hung up over words up over words up over words uh but we'll call it a voter driven uh but we'll call it a voter driven uh but we'll call it a voter driven system maybe system maybe system maybe there are some problems that seem to be there are some problems that seem to be there are some problems that seem to be difficult for a voter driven difficult for a voter driven difficult for a voter driven system to deal with and usually they are system to deal with and usually they are system to deal with and usually they are long-term problems there's only one long-term problems there's only one long-term problems there's only one aspect of the um of the totalitarian aspect of the um of the totalitarian aspect of the um of the totalitarian systems that i've ever been systems that i've ever been systems that i've ever been jealous of and that is their ability to jealous of and that is their ability to jealous of and that is their ability to plan plan plan long term so the the the communists used long term so the the the communists used long term so the the the communists used to have to have to have in the soviet union five-year plans and in the soviet union five-year plans and in the soviet union five-year plans and 10-year plans 10-year plans 10-year plans i'm jealous of those because to me i'm jealous of those because to me i'm jealous of those because to me something like that would be something like that would be something like that would be unsustainable because we'd elect a unsustainable because we'd elect a unsustainable because we'd elect a different president if we didn't like

different president if we didn't like different president if we didn't like the plan the plan the plan and we change course but but so many of and we change course but but so many of and we change course but but so many of these problems require trade-offs these problems require trade-offs these problems require trade-offs between the now and the later between the now and the later between the now and the later uh and people i mean for example if you uh and people i mean for example if you uh and people i mean for example if you said to me listen dan said to me listen dan said to me listen dan we're gonna have to make changes because we're gonna have to make changes because we're gonna have to make changes because of the environmental situation that will of the environmental situation that will of the environmental situation that will hurt you and your family hurt you and your family hurt you and your family now but will benefit countless now but will benefit countless now but will benefit countless generations into the future generations into the future generations into the future that is a hard pill for people to that is a hard pill for people to that is a hard pill for people to swallow who are trying to keep their swallow who are trying to keep their swallow who are trying to keep their heads above water heads above water heads above water now right um think about i always think now right um think about i always think now right um think about i always think about superman if you go back and you about superman if you go back and you about superman if you go back and you read the superman origin story read the superman origin story read the superman origin story it seems terribly prophetic for now it seems terribly prophetic for now it seems terribly prophetic for now right krypton's gonna explode right krypton's gonna explode right krypton's gonna explode uh superman's dad goes and tells the uh superman's dad goes and tells the uh superman's dad goes and tells the people on the council listen we have to people on the council listen we have to people on the council listen we have to plan for this it's gonna happen and they plan for this it's gonna happen and they plan for this it's gonna happen and they laugh at him and of course we know what laugh at him and of course we know what laugh at him and of course we know what happens right happens right happens right um there's something to that now where i um there's something to that now where i um there's something to that now where i mean look at what happened in france mean look at what happened in france mean look at what happened in france where where where uh the government there tries to uh the government there tries to uh the government there tries to implement implement implement climate change protocols and disagree climate change protocols and disagree climate change protocols and disagree with them or agree with the specific with them or agree with the specific with them or agree with the specific plans they chose doesn't matter but the plans they chose doesn't matter but the plans they chose doesn't matter but the people then rebel because they're the people then rebel because they're the people then rebel because they're the ones who are going to have to pay ones who are going to have to pay ones who are going to have to pay the tax for that now you know people who the tax for that now you know people who the tax for that now you know people who aren't making enough money to make ends aren't making enough money to make ends aren't making enough money to make ends meet meet meet now and so they rebel against that it now and so they rebel against that it now and so they rebel against that it you kind of go god you kind of go god you kind of go god i don't want to live in a system where i don't want to live in a system where i don't want to live in a system where the only way we're going to make the the only way we're going to make the the only way we're going to make the world survive world survive world survive is to overthrow the will of the voters is to overthrow the will of the voters is to overthrow the will of the voters because the will of the voters can't because the will of the voters can't because the will of the voters can't possibly sacrifice now possibly sacrifice now possibly sacrifice now for generations yet unborn and yet that for generations yet unborn and yet that for generations yet unborn and yet that seems to me to be seems to me to be seems to me to be you know a [ __ ] in our armor in in a you know a [ __ ] in our armor in in a you know a [ __ ] in our armor in in a democracy or a parliamentary system or a democracy or a parliamentary system or a democracy or a parliamentary system or a republic any thoughts on that republic any thoughts on that republic any thoughts on that i think that plays into the trends and i think that plays into the trends and i think that plays into the trends and forces thing because i think

forces thing because i think forces thing because i think i think if the trends are bad long term i think if the trends are bad long term i think if the trends are bad long term and they require us to all sacrifice and they require us to all sacrifice and they require us to all sacrifice maybe sacrifice for our lives now for maybe sacrifice for our lives now for maybe sacrifice for our lives now for you know children yet unborn i think you know children yet unborn i think you know children yet unborn i think that's really difficult that's really difficult that's really difficult for us to imagine doing and then you for us to imagine doing and then you for us to imagine doing and then you throw in the corruption throw in the corruption throw in the corruption where there are people who are going where there are people who are going where there are people who are going heck i'm making money now heck i'm making money now heck i'm making money now this isn't i'm not going to not cut this isn't i'm not going to not cut this isn't i'm not going to not cut these trees down now i won't these trees down now i won't these trees down now i won't live to benefit from these the money live to benefit from these the money live to benefit from these the money these trees will make these trees will make these trees will make you know 100 years from now 200 years you know 100 years from now 200 years you know 100 years from now 200 years and i certainly won't benefit from using and i certainly won't benefit from using and i certainly won't benefit from using them as a carbon sink them as a carbon sink them as a carbon sink i think the system works against us i think the system works against us i think the system works against us solving those kind of long-term problems solving those kind of long-term problems solving those kind of long-term problems and if the long-term problems are and if the long-term problems are and if the long-term problems are existential existential existential then what does that mean yeah there was then what does that mean yeah there was then what does that mean yeah there was a great line of uh congressmen debating a great line of uh congressmen debating a great line of uh congressmen debating with theodore roosevelt back in the day with theodore roosevelt back in the day with theodore roosevelt back in the day about environmental policies about environmental policies about environmental policies and the guy said i kid you not posterity and the guy said i kid you not posterity and the guy said i kid you not posterity what has posterity ever done for me what has posterity ever done for me what has posterity ever done for me well and listen and it's more than that well and listen and it's more than that well and listen and it's more than that because everybody likes to focus on the because everybody likes to focus on the because everybody likes to focus on the climate change question because it's climate change question because it's climate change question because it's right in our face and we get into the right in our face and we get into the right in our face and we get into the question of is there or isn't there and question of is there or isn't there and question of is there or isn't there and blah blah blah blah blah blah to me once again that's the shiny object to me once again that's the shiny object to me once again that's the shiny object because there are because there are because there are even if you want to say that we must do even if you want to say that we must do even if you want to say that we must do something about that okay have that something about that okay have that something about that okay have that debate elsewhere debate elsewhere debate elsewhere but who's against clean water right i but who's against clean water right i but who's against clean water right i mean there's there's a number of these mean there's there's a number of these mean there's there's a number of these pollution issues where you're going pollution issues where you're going pollution issues where you're going really can't we agree on let's not really can't we agree on let's not really can't we agree on let's not pollute the fresh water pollute the fresh water pollute the fresh water but we fight this pretty basic exactly but we fight this pretty basic exactly but we fight this pretty basic exactly it's like it should be it's like it should be it's like it should be is clean water a republican democratic is clean water a republican democratic is clean water a republican democratic that's crazy but it's that same that's crazy but it's that same that's crazy but it's that same short-term long-term deal yeah it is and

short-term long-term deal yeah it is and short-term long-term deal yeah it is and i think that's precisely the problem i think that's precisely the problem i think that's precisely the problem that you know as long as uh that you know as long as uh that you know as long as uh short-term special interests are ruling short-term special interests are ruling short-term special interests are ruling the conversation it's very hard to have the conversation it's very hard to have the conversation it's very hard to have any kind of long-term discussion about any kind of long-term discussion about any kind of long-term discussion about what benefits humanity as a whole for what benefits humanity as a whole for what benefits humanity as a whole for sure sure sure well and how does it how does it fare well and how does it how does it fare well and how does it how does it fare into the imperial debate i mean there into the imperial debate i mean there into the imperial debate i mean there was a wonderful 60-minute story a while was a wonderful 60-minute story a while was a wonderful 60-minute story a while back back back that was talking about tanks you know that was talking about tanks you know that was talking about tanks you know armored vehicles right armored vehicles right armored vehicles right and uh congress was voting on should we and uh congress was voting on should we and uh congress was voting on should we or shouldn't we build more tanks and the or shouldn't we build more tanks and the or shouldn't we build more tanks and the military military military came to congress and said we don't need came to congress and said we don't need came to congress and said we don't need any more tanks we have them all sitting any more tanks we have them all sitting any more tanks we have them all sitting on lots they're all covered up on lots they're all covered up on lots they're all covered up we have more than we need and yet they we have more than we need and yet they we have more than we need and yet they voted for more tanks because the people voted for more tanks because the people voted for more tanks because the people in the districts of the representatives in the districts of the representatives in the districts of the representatives make make make a living building stuff for tanks so in a living building stuff for tanks so in a living building stuff for tanks so in other words it's the tail wagging the other words it's the tail wagging the other words it's the tail wagging the dog there dog there dog there and we have a system where we're going and we have a system where we're going and we have a system where we're going to continue this imperial sort of thing to continue this imperial sort of thing to continue this imperial sort of thing for what eisenhower talked about right for what eisenhower talked about right for what eisenhower talked about right the military-industrial complex the military-industrial complex the military-industrial complex not just because it benefits the big fat not just because it benefits the big fat not just because it benefits the big fat cats in the in the cats in the in the cats in the in the in the corporations that make this stuff in the corporations that make this stuff in the corporations that make this stuff but because it benefits the workers but because it benefits the workers but because it benefits the workers themselves who are trying to feed their themselves who are trying to feed their themselves who are trying to feed their family and put food on the table family and put food on the table family and put food on the table absolutely and i think that's where absolutely and i think that's where absolutely and i think that's where sometimes the clash of sometimes the clash of sometimes the clash of interest is what leads to decisions that interest is what leads to decisions that interest is what leads to decisions that seem to make no sense seem to make no sense seem to make no sense well let me just for the sake of not well let me just for the sake of not well let me just for the sake of not bumming everybody out let me bumming everybody out let me bumming everybody out let me try to throw a light-hearted one on you try to throw a light-hearted one on you try to throw a light-hearted one on you that we can maybe wrap things up on that we can maybe wrap things up on that we can maybe wrap things up on the don carlin time machine forget the don carlin time machine forget the don carlin time machine forget bringing back u.s bringing back u.s bringing back u.s presidents forget i know there are presidents forget i know there are presidents forget i know there are places where you would like to be a fly places where you would like to be a fly places where you would like to be a fly on a wall in terms of on a wall in terms of on a wall in terms of historical curiosity you know being at historical curiosity you know being at historical curiosity you know being at the battle of canada would be

the battle of canada would be the battle of canada would be fascinating in many ways would probably fascinating in many ways would probably fascinating in many ways would probably not be not be not be fun right it would not be like a happy fun right it would not be like a happy fun right it would not be like a happy occasion it would be a occasion it would be a occasion it would be a what would be a happy one what would be what would be a happy one what would be what would be a happy one what would be you know if you do have your you know if you do have your you know if you do have your don caroline time machine a place where don caroline time machine a place where don caroline time machine a place where you wouldn't mind hanging out for a you wouldn't mind hanging out for a you wouldn't mind hanging out for a while while while for fun not for wow i wonder what it for fun not for wow i wonder what it for fun not for wow i wonder what it would be like to see that live would be like to see that live would be like to see that live but for no i think i could have a good but for no i think i could have a good but for no i think i could have a good time there for at least a couple of time there for at least a couple of time there for at least a couple of hours hours hours oh you know i think of silly things that oh you know i think of silly things that oh you know i think of silly things that that gets kind of personal where i'm that gets kind of personal where i'm that gets kind of personal where i'm sitting here going you know i want to sitting here going you know i want to sitting here going you know i want to see a boxing match between see a boxing match between see a boxing match between you know jack dempsey between jack you know jack dempsey between jack you know jack dempsey between jack dempsey dempsey dempsey i want to see i want to see things that i want to see i want to see things that i want to see i want to see things that were happening before i was born that were happening before i was born that were happening before i was born that i'm interested in i'm interested in i'm interested in so instead of a real giant historical so instead of a real giant historical so instead of a real giant historical event like you know the signing of the event like you know the signing of the event like you know the signing of the declaration of independence i get down declaration of independence i get down declaration of independence i get down to silly little personal things like to silly little personal things like to silly little personal things like i i want to see this or i want to see i i want to see this or i want to see i i want to see this or i want to see you know i'd i you know i you know i'd i you know i you know i'd i you know i there's a movie and you know it field of there's a movie and you know it field of there's a movie and you know it field of dreams right uh where where the uh dreams right uh where where the uh dreams right uh where where the uh the guy goes back and gets to play the guy goes back and gets to play the guy goes back and gets to play baseball with his dad baseball with his dad baseball with his dad uh in in a sort of a ghostly sort of uh in in a sort of a ghostly sort of uh in in a sort of a ghostly sort of sense and sense and sense and i get personal with that like i'd like i get personal with that like i'd like i get personal with that like i'd like to go meet my grandfather when he was to go meet my grandfather when he was to go meet my grandfather when he was 30 years old and pal around with him i 30 years old and pal around with him i 30 years old and pal around with him i mean so that's mean so that's mean so that's that's not really like global history that's not really like global history that's not really like global history that's personal history that's personal history that's personal history of course so that's what makes it fun of course so that's what makes it fun of course so that's what makes it fun sometime but that but those are the kind sometime but that but those are the kind sometime but that but those are the kind of things that of things that of things that that fill up like the top 10 list of that fill up like the top 10 list of that fill up like the top 10 list of things that like things that like things that like to go back to i'd have to get down to to go back to i'd have to get down to to go back to i'd have to get down to number 20 number 30 number 40 on the number 20 number 30 number 40 on the number 20 number 30 number 40 on the list before i'm at these giant list before i'm at these giant list before i'm at these giant political events unless you're talking

political events unless you're talking political events unless you're talking about the dark stuff and then i get you about the dark stuff and then i get you about the dark stuff and then i get you know know know i mean when you talked about wanting to i mean when you talked about wanting to i mean when you talked about wanting to see the battle of uh of kenny or any of see the battle of uh of kenny or any of see the battle of uh of kenny or any of those kinds of things those those kinds of things those those kinds of things those those are because i don't know the those are because i don't know the those are because i don't know the answers so uh and a lot of people don't answers so uh and a lot of people don't answers so uh and a lot of people don't know this but nobody has any idea what know this but nobody has any idea what know this but nobody has any idea what ancient warfare was like ancient warfare was like ancient warfare was like and you can't reconstruct it and there's and you can't reconstruct it and there's and you can't reconstruct it and there's been a lot of attempts to do so so of been a lot of attempts to do so so of been a lot of attempts to do so so of course you know course you know course you know my mind says i want to be suspended in a my mind says i want to be suspended in a my mind says i want to be suspended in a hot air balloon hot air balloon hot air balloon 150 feet above that battle so i can see 150 feet above that battle so i can see 150 feet above that battle so i can see exactly what the physics of you know exactly what the physics of you know exactly what the physics of you know ancient combat looked like right of ancient combat looked like right of ancient combat looked like right of course um so those are course um so those are course um so those are and those really aren't about history and those really aren't about history and those really aren't about history they're about answering long-standing they're about answering long-standing they're about answering long-standing questions that i've had questions that i've had questions that i've had uh so i but what about you let me let me uh so i but what about you let me let me uh so i but what about you let me let me return return return to and turn the question around me where to and turn the question around me where to and turn the question around me where would you like to be would you like to be would you like to be um and again where i would like to be um and again where i would like to be um and again where i would like to be probably for two hours because before probably for two hours because before probably for two hours because before modern medicine the lack of modern modern medicine the lack of modern modern medicine the lack of modern medicine kicks in and all of that medicine kicks in and all of that medicine kicks in and all of that is a whole different scenario but uh i is a whole different scenario but uh i is a whole different scenario but uh i am am am absolutely fascinated with pre-state absolutely fascinated with pre-state absolutely fascinated with pre-state societies societies societies so even going way back in the day like so even going way back in the day like so even going way back in the day like what is life like what is life like what is life like in a hunting and gathering tribe like in a hunting and gathering tribe like in a hunting and gathering tribe like the way we have lived for the way we have lived for the way we have lived for most of human history uh 10 000 years most of human history uh 10 000 years most of human history uh 10 000 years ago as ago as ago as the last ice age is the last ice age is the last ice age is giving away and a new world is coming giving away and a new world is coming giving away and a new world is coming into being what would that feel like now into being what would that feel like now into being what would that feel like now again i give myself two hours because by again i give myself two hours because by again i give myself two hours because by then you know i feel like then you know i feel like then you know i feel like between predators hitting me and the between predators hitting me and the between predators hitting me and the tribe next door clapping me on the head tribe next door clapping me on the head tribe next door clapping me on the head or things like that may get unpleasant or things like that may get unpleasant or things like that may get unpleasant really fast

really fast really fast but that would be one that fascinates me but that would be one that fascinates me but that would be one that fascinates me quite a bit i was reading some quite a bit i was reading some quite a bit i was reading some interesting books on some of the um interesting books on some of the um interesting books on some of the um some of the studies that were done in some of the studies that were done in some of the studies that were done in the early and mid 20th century by some the early and mid 20th century by some the early and mid 20th century by some of these of these of these people that were trying to to recreate people that were trying to to recreate people that were trying to to recreate as best they could exactly what you were as best they could exactly what you were as best they could exactly what you were talking about so they were going to the talking about so they were going to the talking about so they were going to the last few societies on the planet last few societies on the planet last few societies on the planet that still basically functioned as they that still basically functioned as they that still basically functioned as they used to so new guinea was one of the used to so new guinea was one of the used to so new guinea was one of the places that they used to go to places that they used to go to places that they used to go to and there are photographs of these and there are photographs of these and there are photographs of these tribes in new guinea that are fighting tribes in new guinea that are fighting tribes in new guinea that are fighting each other each other each other that the archaeologist or it's an that the archaeologist or it's an that the archaeologist or it's an anthropologist the the anthropologist anthropologist the the anthropologist anthropologist the the anthropologist took photos of took photos of took photos of and then tried to extrapolate what you and then tried to extrapolate what you and then tried to extrapolate what you learned from watching those tribes learned from watching those tribes learned from watching those tribes to every other pre-industrial state to every other pre-industrial state to every other pre-industrial state throughout history i mean throughout history i mean throughout history i mean to me that's the closest you can come to to me that's the closest you can come to to me that's the closest you can come to a time machine a time machine a time machine to try to see what it was that you to try to see what it was that you to try to see what it was that you wanted to see and you know it's it's a wanted to see and you know it's it's a wanted to see and you know it's it's a little sad it's a little like little sad it's a little like little sad it's a little like the extinction of an animal species but the extinction of an animal species but the extinction of an animal species but it would be a lot harder to do that it would be a lot harder to do that it would be a lot harder to do that today if you wanted to you might have to today if you wanted to you might have to today if you wanted to you might have to go invade some of those few islands off go invade some of those few islands off go invade some of those few islands off the coast of india or whatever where the coast of india or whatever where the coast of india or whatever where there are still there are still there are still although although that could be although although that could be although although that could be dangerous too yeah as we have seen dangerous too yeah as we have seen dangerous too yeah as we have seen exactly exactly exactly see i have to turn it dark somehow at see i have to turn it dark somehow at see i have to turn it dark somehow at the end i know man i was trying to go the end i know man i was trying to go the end i know man i was trying to go for the lighthearted one but for the lighthearted one but for the lighthearted one but no no this is proprietary daniela we no no this is proprietary daniela we no no this is proprietary daniela we leave it on the dark side leave it on the dark side leave it on the dark side i see okay that's that's the way it goes i see okay that's that's the way it goes i see okay that's that's the way it goes cool man well thank you so much for the cool man well thank you so much for the cool man well thank you so much for the conversation thank conversation thank conversation thank you you too buddy

my thanks to danielle for coming on the my thanks to danielle for coming on the program or program or program or did i go on his well probably little of did i go on his well probably little of did i go on his well probably little of both uh both uh both uh i enjoyed talking with him as always i i enjoyed talking with him as always i i enjoyed talking with him as always i talked with him more than you hear me talked with him more than you hear me talked with him more than you hear me talk with him so this was just one of talk with him so this was just one of talk with him so this was just one of those times where we you know those times where we you know those times where we you know let you all listen in um i did have an let you all listen in um i did have an let you all listen in um i did have an addendum addendum addendum as i said to hardcore history addendum as i said to hardcore history addendum as i said to hardcore history addendum um um um after that discussion i thought of after that discussion i thought of after that discussion i thought of something i should have brought up when something i should have brought up when something i should have brought up when we were talking about the nazis and the we were talking about the nazis and the we were talking about the nazis and the company they keep company they keep company they keep and how this should somehow be factored and how this should somehow be factored and how this should somehow be factored into where you want to place them on any into where you want to place them on any into where you want to place them on any political spectrum political spectrum political spectrum we neglected we the royal we me all by we neglected we the royal we me all by we neglected we the royal we me all by myself neglected to myself neglected to myself neglected to bring up the groups in germany after the bring up the groups in germany after the bring up the groups in germany after the first world war first world war first world war that were associated with the nazis in that were associated with the nazis in that were associated with the nazis in other words other words other words um we had talked about countries that um we had talked about countries that um we had talked about countries that wouldn't have associated themselves with wouldn't have associated themselves with wouldn't have associated themselves with leftists but what about leftists but what about leftists but what about elements in german society i mean how do elements in german society i mean how do elements in german society i mean how do i i i forget to bring up the paramilitary forget to bring up the paramilitary forget to bring up the paramilitary groups like the stall helm and the frei groups like the stall helm and the frei groups like the stall helm and the frei corps right these corps right these corps right these these groups that um were formed mostly these groups that um were formed mostly these groups that um were formed mostly of disgruntled and maybe rootless and of disgruntled and maybe rootless and of disgruntled and maybe rootless and lost lost lost veterans after the war who signed up to veterans after the war who signed up to veterans after the war who signed up to police police police you know germany's streets and root out you know germany's streets and root out you know germany's streets and root out and and and beat up or kill communists um beat up or kill communists um beat up or kill communists um these are people who fought for the these are people who fought for the these are people who fought for the emperor they are emperor they are emperor they are people whom um people whom um people whom um there's no leftism attached to them at there's no leftism attached to them at there's no leftism attached to them at all i mean these are people that all i mean these are people that all i mean these are people that that wanted a monarch and were fiercely that wanted a monarch and were fiercely that wanted a monarch and were fiercely anti-communist and anti-marxist and anti-communist and anti-marxist and anti-communist and anti-marxist and think that those people stabbed them think that those people stabbed them think that those people stabbed them in the back remember that phrase and in the back remember that phrase and in the back remember that phrase and that that's how they lost the first

that that's how they lost the first that that's how they lost the first world war world war world war the person that will begin to associate the person that will begin to associate the person that will begin to associate himself with the nazis early on they himself with the nazis early on they himself with the nazis early on they will break over competing weird will break over competing weird will break over competing weird conspiratorial beliefs but early on conspiratorial beliefs but early on conspiratorial beliefs but early on is general ludendorff eric ludendorff is general ludendorff eric ludendorff is general ludendorff eric ludendorff you remember him right guy who commanded you remember him right guy who commanded you remember him right guy who commanded the entire german army for a bunch of the entire german army for a bunch of the entire german army for a bunch of the war the war the war and um was basically one half of a and um was basically one half of a and um was basically one half of a military dictatorship that commanded military dictatorship that commanded military dictatorship that commanded germany over the last couple of years germany over the last couple of years germany over the last couple of years of the first world war this is an ardent of the first world war this is an ardent of the first world war this is an ardent anti-leftist this is a monarch i mean anti-leftist this is a monarch i mean anti-leftist this is a monarch i mean why would ludendorff be taking pictures why would ludendorff be taking pictures why would ludendorff be taking pictures with hitler and associating himself with with hitler and associating himself with with hitler and associating himself with the nazis and by the way the nazis and by the way the nazis and by the way during hitler's great march you know during hitler's great march you know during hitler's great march you know they're trying to take over the they're trying to take over the they're trying to take over the government the one he ended up in jail government the one he ended up in jail government the one he ended up in jail for where they got for where they got for where they got shot at by police and hermann goring shot at by police and hermann goring shot at by police and hermann goring took a bullet in the groin took a bullet in the groin took a bullet in the groin um one guy supposedly didn't fall to the um one guy supposedly didn't fall to the um one guy supposedly didn't fall to the ground ground ground when the rifles went off and that was when the rifles went off and that was when the rifles went off and that was ludendorff marching in the front with ludendorff marching in the front with ludendorff marching in the front with everybody everybody everybody he supposedly walks right up to the to he supposedly walks right up to the to he supposedly walks right up to the to the police holding the rifles who just the police holding the rifles who just the police holding the rifles who just shot down shot down shot down a bunch of people including his own a bunch of people including his own a bunch of people including his own butler uh and ludeng george just moves butler uh and ludeng george just moves butler uh and ludeng george just moves the rifle to one side and walks past him the rifle to one side and walks past him the rifle to one side and walks past him this guy is not going to associate this guy is not going to associate this guy is not going to associate himself with you know himself with you know himself with you know marxist leninist revolutionaries marxist leninist revolutionaries marxist leninist revolutionaries you know the old line from the french you know the old line from the french you know the old line from the french king holds true here be this guy king holds true here be this guy king holds true here be this guy is the virtual representation of the old is the virtual representation of the old is the virtual representation of the old state state state and the old regime and the old regime and the old regime this is everything that the leftists this is everything that the leftists this is everything that the leftists were fighting against were fighting against were fighting against why on earth would he associate himself

why on earth would he associate himself why on earth would he associate himself with the nazis and why would groups like with the nazis and why would groups like with the nazis and why would groups like the frey corps and the stall helm do the frey corps and the stall helm do the frey corps and the stall helm do that that that if they thought the nazis were anything if they thought the nazis were anything if they thought the nazis were anything like the leftists that they loathed like the leftists that they loathed like the leftists that they loathed and that they blamed for the stab in the and that they blamed for the stab in the and that they blamed for the stab in the back theory back theory back theory i mean it just as i said there's a lot i mean it just as i said there's a lot i mean it just as i said there's a lot of ways to create a political spectrum of ways to create a political spectrum of ways to create a political spectrum as something to graft the political as something to graft the political as something to graft the political beliefs of people and there's no beliefs of people and there's no beliefs of people and there's no question that the one i grew up with the question that the one i grew up with the question that the one i grew up with the traditional one is traditional one is traditional one is extremely limited but as we said if extremely limited but as we said if extremely limited but as we said if you're going to you're going to you're going to change this then we ought to acknowledge change this then we ought to acknowledge change this then we ought to acknowledge that and there are people that you'll that and there are people that you'll that and there are people that you'll see that will make other people out to see that will make other people out to see that will make other people out to be idiots because they don't realize be idiots because they don't realize be idiots because they don't realize nazis are on the left nazis are on the left nazis are on the left um no that makes the person who says um no that makes the person who says um no that makes the person who says that maybe that maybe that maybe look like they don't know that the rules look like they don't know that the rules look like they don't know that the rules have been changed have been changed have been changed as i said there's nothing wrong with as i said there's nothing wrong with as i said there's nothing wrong with that but you kind of have to say that that but you kind of have to say that that but you kind of have to say that you you you changed what you know you put in the changed what you know you put in the changed what you know you put in the equation for x or y equation for x or y equation for x or y when you you know slam somebody for when you you know slam somebody for when you you know slam somebody for getting a different answer than you got getting a different answer than you got getting a different answer than you got especially if they were using the old especially if they were using the old especially if they were using the old math stay safe everyone