Dan Carlin’s Hardcore History 63 - Supernova in the East 2

what you're about to hear is part two of what you're about to hear is part two of a multi-part series on the wars in Asia a multi-part series on the wars in Asia a multi-part series on the wars in Asia and the Pacific involving the Imperial and the Pacific involving the Imperial and the Pacific involving the Imperial Japanese empire and many other countries Japanese empire and many other countries Japanese empire and many other countries and Powers if you enjoy context and and Powers if you enjoy context and and Powers if you enjoy context and don't want to get too frustrated with me don't want to get too frustrated with me don't want to get too frustrated with me referring back to things we talked about referring back to things we talked about referring back to things we talked about earlier please feel free to listen to earlier please feel free to listen to earlier please feel free to listen to part one and catch up if you don't care part one and catch up if you don't care part one and catch up if you don't care about those things of course or if about those things of course or if about those things of course or if you've already heard part one well you've already heard part one well you've already heard part one well please feel free to continue and please feel free to continue and please feel free to continue and hopefully enjoy part two of supernova in hopefully enjoy part two of supernova in hopefully enjoy part two of supernova in the east History why didn't Adolf Hitler and the History why didn't Adolf Hitler and the Nazis broadcast news and Nazis broadcast news and Nazis broadcast news and updates of what they were doing as part updates of what they were doing as part updates of what they were doing as part of the final solution while it was going of the final solution while it was going of the final solution while it was going on I mean why didn't they announce to on I mean why didn't they announce to on I mean why didn't they announce to the world through the Joseph gobl the world through the Joseph gobl the world through the Joseph gobl propaganda Ministry that we set up these propaganda Ministry that we set up these propaganda Ministry that we set up these industrial killing facilities but we'll industrial killing facilities but we'll industrial killing facilities but we'll work people to death first if they're work people to death first if they're work people to death first if they're strong and and explain listen last month strong and and explain listen last month strong and and explain listen last month we killed 100,000 more of these people we killed 100,000 more of these people we killed 100,000 more of these people and we won't stop till they're all and we won't stop till they're all and we won't stop till they're all gone why didn't they do gone why didn't they do gone why didn't they do that why didn't Stalin get up there and that why didn't Stalin get up there and that why didn't Stalin get up there and yell and shake his finger and threaten yell and shake his finger and threaten yell and shake his finger and threaten the Googs and then explain what the goog the Googs and then explain what the goog the Googs and then explain what the goog archipelago the whole system was and to archipelago the whole system was and to archipelago the whole system was and to starve you to death work you to death as starve you to death work you to death as starve you to death work you to death as part of a re-education campaign and all

part of a re-education campaign and all part of a re-education campaign and all you have to do is leave the country and you have to do is leave the country and you have to do is leave the country and come back for us to be suspicious enough come back for us to be suspicious enough come back for us to be suspicious enough that you've been corrupted to send you that you've been corrupted to send you that you've been corrupted to send you away I mean why didn't he get up there away I mean why didn't he get up there away I mean why didn't he get up there and say this is what's going to happen and say this is what's going to happen and say this is what's going to happen to you if you don't stay in I to you if you don't stay in I to you if you don't stay in I mean no one admitted it mean no one admitted it mean no one admitted it right why didn't the kameha Rouge take right why didn't the kameha Rouge take right why didn't the kameha Rouge take photographs as they wiped out the photographs as they wiped out the photographs as they wiped out the intellectual class of Cambodia because intellectual class of Cambodia because intellectual class of Cambodia because they thought people with glasses were they thought people with glasses were they thought people with glasses were intellectuals and that intellectual were intellectuals and that intellectual were intellectuals and that intellectual were a threat to their new world that they a threat to their new world that they a threat to their new world that they were creating where everyone was going were creating where everyone was going were creating where everyone was going to go live back on the land again why to go live back on the land again why to go live back on the land again why aren't there photos of that go check out aren't there photos of that go check out aren't there photos of that go check out The Killing Fields and you know what The Killing Fields and you know what The Killing Fields and you know what you'll find you'll find you'll find artwork why didn't they take photos full artwork why didn't they take photos full artwork why didn't they take photos full color blow them up and put them all color blow them up and put them all color blow them up and put them all around the town and send some to the around the town and send some to the around the town and send some to the foreign media Outlets too that's what an Assyrian king would too that's what an Assyrian king would have done back in the Iron have done back in the Iron have done back in the Iron Age get a guy like sakar rib going to Age get a guy like sakar rib going to Age get a guy like sakar rib going to level a place like Babylon and then he's level a place like Babylon and then he's level a place like Babylon and then he's going to make sure everyone knows about going to make sure everyone knows about going to make sure everyone knows about it in it in it in detail now a good historian of that era detail now a good historian of that era detail now a good historian of that era will point out that a lot of what the will point out that a lot of what the will point out that a lot of what the Assyrians carved into stone including Assyrians carved into stone including Assyrians carved into stone including you know their version of photos right you know their version of photos right you know their version of photos right artwork with commentary and statements artwork with commentary and statements artwork with commentary and statements by the king a lot of that stuff was a by the king a lot of that stuff was a by the king a lot of that stuff was a court style after a while in other words court style after a while in other words court style after a while in other words it was what everyone would expect it's it was what everyone would expect it's it was what everyone would expect it's why you still see Egyptian fashions in why you still see Egyptian fashions in why you still see Egyptian fashions in the New Kingdom that look you really the New Kingdom that look you really the New Kingdom that look you really familiar like Egyptian Fashions from the familiar like Egyptian Fashions from the familiar like Egyptian Fashions from the Old Old Old Kingdom there's a style that becomes the

Kingdom there's a style that becomes the Kingdom there's a style that becomes the style you use but what does it say about style you use but what does it say about style you use but what does it say about you if the style you use is to announce you if the style you use is to announce you if the style you use is to announce the atrocities that you commit and as the atrocities that you commit and as the atrocities that you commit and as close as possible replicate them on the close as possible replicate them on the close as possible replicate them on the walls of your waiting room in the walls of your waiting room in the walls of your waiting room in the embassies while people wait to talk to embassies while people wait to talk to embassies while people wait to talk to the Assyrian ruler I mean sarib the Assyrian ruler I mean sarib the Assyrian ruler I mean sarib destroyed Babylon and wrote about it destroyed Babylon and wrote about it destroyed Babylon and wrote about it here's what the scribes here's what the scribes here's what the scribes record the words of sonakar being again record the words of sonakar being again record the words of sonakar being again this is a court style this is a court style this is a court style also but what a style sonakar rib said also but what a style sonakar rib said also but what a style sonakar rib said of his leveling of one of the great of his leveling of one of the great of his leveling of one of the great cities maybe the greatest city of all cities maybe the greatest city of all cities maybe the greatest city of all time if you started a top 100 list time if you started a top 100 list time if you started a top 100 list Babylon and he leveled Babylon in the Babylon and he leveled Babylon in the Babylon and he leveled Babylon in the 600s BCE by the way 600s BCE by the way 600s BCE by the way quote like the oncoming of a storm I quote like the oncoming of a storm I quote like the oncoming of a storm I broke loose and overwhelmed it like a broke loose and overwhelmed it like a broke loose and overwhelmed it like a hurricane with their corpses I filled hurricane with their corpses I filled hurricane with their corpses I filled the city squares the city and its houses the city squares the city and its houses the city squares the city and its houses from its foundations to its top I from its foundations to its top I from its foundations to its top I destroyed I devastated I burned with destroyed I devastated I burned with destroyed I devastated I burned with fire the wall and outer wall temples and fire the wall and outer wall temples and fire the wall and outer wall temples and gods Temple towers of brick and Earth as gods Temple towers of brick and Earth as gods Temple towers of brick and Earth as many as there were I raised and dumped many as there were I raised and dumped many as there were I raised and dumped them into the atatu canal through the them into the atatu canal through the them into the atatu canal through the midst of that City I dug canals I midst of that City I dug canals I midst of that City I dug canals I flooded its sight with water and the flooded its sight with water and the flooded its sight with water and the Very foundations thereof I destroyed I Very foundations thereof I destroyed I Very foundations thereof I destroyed I made its destruction more complete than made its destruction more complete than made its destruction more complete than that by a flood that in days to come on that by a flood that in days to come on that by a flood that in days to come on the sight of that City and its temples the sight of that City and its temples the sight of that City and its temples and its Gods might not be remembered I

and its Gods might not be remembered I and its Gods might not be remembered I completely blotted it out with floods of completely blotted it out with floods of completely blotted it out with floods of water and made it like a meadow end quote all those later kings were quote all those later kings were probably trying to emulate the badass of probably trying to emulate the badass of probably trying to emulate the badass of them all Ashan nasar Paul II from you them all Ashan nasar Paul II from you them all Ashan nasar Paul II from you know a couple centuries before that know a couple centuries before that know a couple centuries before that time nonetheless you got to appreciate time nonetheless you got to appreciate time nonetheless you got to appreciate the Assyrians for owning it and using it the Assyrians for owning it and using it the Assyrians for owning it and using it their foreign Poli policy was based on their foreign Poli policy was based on their foreign Poli policy was based on scaring the hell out of people they scaring the hell out of people they scaring the hell out of people they didn't want you to rebel and the best didn't want you to rebel and the best didn't want you to rebel and the best way to do that was to punish anyone who way to do that was to punish anyone who way to do that was to punish anyone who did Rebel did Rebel did Rebel horribly now that was more the style of horribly now that was more the style of horribly now that was more the style of the times in the Iron Age though one the times in the Iron Age though one the times in the Iron Age though one could see that not playing particularly could see that not playing particularly could see that not playing particularly well in the 20th century but then let's well in the 20th century but then let's well in the 20th century but then let's ask ask ask why if you were to make a list of all why if you were to make a list of all why if you were to make a list of all the genocides and attempted genocides the genocides and attempted genocides the genocides and attempted genocides atrocities war crimes and all these atrocities war crimes and all these atrocities war crimes and all these things you know that would fall broadly things you know that would fall broadly things you know that would fall broadly under that heading and involve enough under that heading and involve enough under that heading and involve enough people to sort of make a list of the people to sort of make a list of the people to sort of make a list of the 20th and 21st 20th and 21st 20th and 21st centuries how many of the let's just centuries how many of the let's just centuries how many of the let's just call them accused perpetrators of these call them accused perpetrators of these call them accused perpetrators of these acts admit to it own acts admit to it own acts admit to it own it and if they do how many of them do so it and if they do how many of them do so it and if they do how many of them do so in an unqualified way because sometimes in an unqualified way because sometimes in an unqualified way because sometimes the evidence is so overwhelming that the evidence is so overwhelming that the evidence is so overwhelming that even you know deniers can't figure out even you know deniers can't figure out even you know deniers can't figure out how to wiggle out of the facts so they how to wiggle out of the facts so they how to wiggle out of the facts so they start rationalizing and they'll say well start rationalizing and they'll say well start rationalizing and they'll say well the numbers are inflated or there is the numbers are inflated or there is the numbers are inflated or there is mitigating circumstances or what have

mitigating circumstances or what have mitigating circumstances or what have you and here's what makes life so you and here's what makes life so you and here's what makes life so complicated sometimes they're complicated sometimes they're complicated sometimes they're right if you look at the history of the right if you look at the history of the right if you look at the history of the 20th century you will note that we start 20th century you will note that we start 20th century you will note that we start off relatively quickly with some of the off relatively quickly with some of the off relatively quickly with some of the more famous uh genocides or attempted more famous uh genocides or attempted more famous uh genocides or attempted genocides or alleged attempted genocides genocides or alleged attempted genocides genocides or alleged attempted genocides in history and we keep going from in history and we keep going from in history and we keep going from there we have spent more than 100 years there we have spent more than 100 years there we have spent more than 100 years now as a global Society trying to codify now as a global Society trying to codify now as a global Society trying to codify rules and laws and courts of rules and laws and courts of rules and laws and courts of adjudication and systems and adjudication and systems and adjudication and systems and organizations to help create rules about organizations to help create rules about organizations to help create rules about atrocities and War and genocides and atrocities and War and genocides and atrocities and War and genocides and killings and crimes against humanity killings and crimes against humanity killings and crimes against humanity right you could you could create a right you could you could create a right you could you could create a timeline I mean could start you could timeline I mean could start you could timeline I mean could start you could start before the hag conventions and start before the hag conventions and start before the hag conventions and things like that but but you go all the things like that but but you go all the things like that but but you go all the way through you know the the League of way through you know the the League of way through you know the the League of Nations creation you can get to the uh Nations creation you can get to the uh Nations creation you can get to the uh uh United Nations creation you can get uh United Nations creation you can get uh United Nations creation you can get to the uh nurenberg and Tokyo trials to the uh nurenberg and Tokyo trials to the uh nurenberg and Tokyo trials there's I mean there's all these sorts there's I mean there's all these sorts there's I mean there's all these sorts of things and now we have this extensive of things and now we have this extensive of things and now we have this extensive body in many of these Global body in many of these Global body in many of these Global organizations created in large part in organizations created in large part in organizations created in large part in reaction to horrible atrocities and reaction to horrible atrocities and reaction to horrible atrocities and genocides and things that must never genocides and things that must never genocides and things that must never happen happen happen again and yet let me ask you what you again and yet let me ask you what you again and yet let me ask you what you think would happen if it happened again think would happen if it happened again think would happen if it happened again I mean the we we've spent an enormous I mean the we we've spent an enormous I mean the we we've spent an enormous amount of time and human effort on on a amount of time and human effort on on a amount of time and human effort on on a fantastic cause right let's never have a fantastic cause right let's never have a fantastic cause right let's never have a final solution for for example happen final solution for for example happen final solution for for example happen again but what if it happened again but what if it happened again but what if it happened tomorrow and of course if this is going tomorrow and of course if this is going tomorrow and of course if this is going to be some sort of analogy that works we

to be some sort of analogy that works we to be some sort of analogy that works we have to imagine it happens in a in a have to imagine it happens in a in a have to imagine it happens in a in a powerful state if it happens in Albania powerful state if it happens in Albania powerful state if it happens in Albania uh there'll be no problem the bombing uh there'll be no problem the bombing uh there'll be no problem the bombing will start you know soon afterwards and will start you know soon afterwards and will start you know soon afterwards and there'll be an invasion if it involves there'll be an invasion if it involves there'll be an invasion if it involves if if this crime against humanity if if this crime against humanity if if this crime against humanity involves an important ethnic group involves an important ethnic group involves an important ethnic group that's in many country so that many that's in many country so that many that's in many country so that many countries have an interest in this uh countries have an interest in this uh countries have an interest in this uh Jewish folks are an example of that then Jewish folks are an example of that then Jewish folks are an example of that then it's going to be a different kind of it's going to be a different kind of it's going to be a different kind of situation if we're talking about a situation if we're talking about a situation if we're talking about a people that almost nobody really knows people that almost nobody really knows people that almost nobody really knows about in some Far Away place and they're about in some Far Away place and they're about in some Far Away place and they're being persecuted by a powerful State the being persecuted by a powerful State the being persecuted by a powerful State the ramifications of confronting you know ramifications of confronting you know ramifications of confronting you know would not be like Albania you'd be would not be like Albania you'd be would not be like Albania you'd be committing to some major stuff do you committing to some major stuff do you committing to some major stuff do you think we do anything different today if think we do anything different today if think we do anything different today if if Holocaust number two starts if Holocaust number two starts if Holocaust number two starts tomorrow if it's China or Russia tomorrow if it's China or Russia tomorrow if it's China or Russia apologies to both those Nations but I apologies to both those Nations but I apologies to both those Nations but I mean they're the obvious powerful mean they're the obvious powerful mean they're the obvious powerful choices if I'm not going to choose my choices if I'm not going to choose my choices if I'm not going to choose my own state if they start killing a own state if they start killing a own state if they start killing a million or two million of some unpop million or two million of some unpop million or two million of some unpop minority there that most of us in the minority there that most of us in the minority there that most of us in the rest of the world don't know a lot about rest of the world don't know a lot about rest of the world don't know a lot about don't have a whole lot of dog in that don't have a whole lot of dog in that don't have a whole lot of dog in that fight how well are all these wonderful fight how well are all these wonderful fight how well are all these wonderful organizations that we have created over organizations that we have created over organizations that we have created over more than a hundred years how well is more than a hundred years how well is more than a hundred years how well is this mechanism going to click into place this mechanism going to click into place this mechanism going to click into place and function to stop something like and function to stop something like and function to stop something like that the people at the time get quite a that the people at the time get quite a that the people at the time get quite a bit of blame for not doing more to stop bit of blame for not doing more to stop bit of blame for not doing more to stop the Holocaust or atrocities that the Holocaust or atrocities that the Holocaust or atrocities that happened all throughout the second world happened all throughout the second world happened all throughout the second world war on many major fronts but I think we war on many major fronts but I think we war on many major fronts but I think we sometimes forget how hard it is to do sometimes forget how hard it is to do sometimes forget how hard it is to do that we have many more mechanisms and that we have many more mechanisms and that we have many more mechanisms and you know tools that our disposal created

you know tools that our disposal created you know tools that our disposal created in many cases specifically for this in many cases specifically for this in many cases specifically for this purpose that I still think and remember purpose that I still think and remember purpose that I still think and remember I'm not a I'm not cautiously optimistic I'm not a I'm not cautiously optimistic I'm not a I'm not cautiously optimistic personality wise I'm cautiously personality wise I'm cautiously personality wise I'm cautiously pessimistic I'm not all hardcore cynical pessimistic I'm not all hardcore cynical pessimistic I'm not all hardcore cynical and pessimistic but I'm mildly both and and pessimistic but I'm mildly both and and pessimistic but I'm mildly both and I I think if the state is powerful I I think if the state is powerful I I think if the state is powerful enough we could have you know the weager enough we could have you know the weager enough we could have you know the weager version of the final solution happen version of the final solution happen version of the final solution happen over the next year and the world kind of over the next year and the world kind of over the next year and the world kind of sit around and look at each other most sit around and look at each other most sit around and look at each other most of the time going you know let's uh some of the time going you know let's uh some of the time going you know let's uh some sanctions maybe I mean what should we sanctions maybe I mean what should we sanctions maybe I mean what should we do I bring that up because we're coming do I bring that up because we're coming do I bring that up because we're coming to a part in the story where it's let's to a part in the story where it's let's to a part in the story where it's let's call it a milestone or a potential call it a milestone or a potential call it a milestone or a potential Milestone on that timeline that begins Milestone on that timeline that begins Milestone on that timeline that begins maybe you could say in the 20th century maybe you could say in the 20th century maybe you could say in the 20th century and keeps going to now um concerning and keeps going to now um concerning and keeps going to now um concerning these kinds of events and I mean look at these kinds of events and I mean look at these kinds of events and I mean look at your newspaper today we still haven't your newspaper today we still haven't your newspaper today we still haven't figured out how to deal with this we figured out how to deal with this we figured out how to deal with this we just had some problems in the Middle just had some problems in the Middle just had some problems in the Middle East where everybody was going you know East where everybody was going you know East where everybody was going you know how do we influence this humanitarian how do we influence this humanitarian how do we influence this humanitarian crisis we had it when the former crisis we had it when the former crisis we had it when the former Yugoslavia broke up you had a genocide Yugoslavia broke up you had a genocide Yugoslavia broke up you had a genocide in Rwanda going on and everybody looking in Rwanda going on and everybody looking in Rwanda going on and everybody looking at each other thinking to themselves at each other thinking to themselves at each other thinking to themselves what do we need to do here meanwhile you what do we need to do here meanwhile you what do we need to do here meanwhile you know the killings are every day and know the killings are every day and know the killings are every day and everybody's sort of deliberating and everybody's sort of deliberating and everybody's sort of deliberating and everybody's got to consider you know everybody's got to consider you know everybody's got to consider you know their own uh personal country strategic their own uh personal country strategic their own uh personal country strategic interests and you know real politique interests and you know real politique interests and you know real politique questions it's all understandable but it questions it's all understandable but it questions it's all understandable but it boils down to the same thing if this is boils down to the same thing if this is boils down to the same thing if this is 1943 and this is is how we're behaving 1943 and this is is how we're behaving 1943 and this is is how we're behaving more Jewish people and Gypsies and more Jewish people and Gypsies and more Jewish people and Gypsies and homosexuals and Polish people and homosexuals and Polish people and homosexuals and Polish people and Priests are dying every day and yet Priests are dying every day and yet Priests are dying every day and yet what's a responsible speed and what's a

what's a responsible speed and what's a what's a responsible speed and what's a responsible level of force we can expect responsible level of force we can expect responsible level of force we can expect nation states to employ in situations nation states to employ in situations nation states to employ in situations like this so as we ask ourselves that like this so as we ask ourselves that like this so as we ask ourselves that question and realize that the people in question and realize that the people in question and realize that the people in the in the pre Second World War era had the in the pre Second World War era had the in the pre Second World War era had less in the way of tools and less in the less in the way of tools and less in the less in the way of tools and less in the way of structure and probably less in way of structure and probably less in way of structure and probably less in the way of Leverage I mean we talking the way of Leverage I mean we talking the way of Leverage I mean we talking nuclear weapons now which changed the nuclear weapons now which changed the nuclear weapons now which changed the game completely and they're confronted game completely and they're confronted game completely and they're confronted with a similar sort of situation and by with a similar sort of situation and by with a similar sort of situation and by the way this is one we still deal with the way this is one we still deal with the way this is one we still deal with today and it is still controversial and today and it is still controversial and today and it is still controversial and that's why I brought up the point about that's why I brought up the point about that's why I brought up the point about denial or minimization or denial or minimization or denial or minimization or rationalization when it comes to rationalization when it comes to rationalization when it comes to questions of questions of questions of atrocities when last we spoke we were atrocities when last we spoke we were atrocities when last we spoke we were talking about the Battle of Shanghai a talking about the Battle of Shanghai a talking about the Battle of Shanghai a little known battle by the way in the little known battle by the way in the little known battle by the way in the west but as participants liked to point west but as participants liked to point west but as participants liked to point out by the time it's done and went on out by the time it's done and went on out by the time it's done and went on like three months something like that like three months something like that like three months something like that you have as many dead on the Chinese you have as many dead on the Chinese you have as many dead on the Chinese side as either side kind of a little side as either side kind of a little side as either side kind of a little less I think but but at the Battle of less I think but but at the Battle of less I think but but at the Battle of redun in the first world war a redun in the first world war a redun in the first world war a historically nasty battle that went on longer the strategy at the Battle of longer the strategy at the Battle of Shanghai was influenced by global public Shanghai was influenced by global public Shanghai was influenced by global public opinion or a desire to influence global opinion or a desire to influence global opinion or a desire to influence global public opinion Shanghai Sheek and the public opinion Shanghai Sheek and the public opinion Shanghai Sheek and the Chinese wanted to prove that the Chinese Chinese wanted to prove that the Chinese Chinese wanted to prove that the Chinese could put up a fight against the could put up a fight against the could put up a fight against the Japanese and they wanted to send a Japanese and they wanted to send a Japanese and they wanted to send a message to to the world that we're here message to to the world that we're here message to to the world that we're here we can resist if you want to help us we can resist if you want to help us we can resist if you want to help us it's a worthwhile investment and it's it's a worthwhile investment and it's it's a worthwhile investment and it's awful and you should help us there were awful and you should help us there were awful and you should help us there were photographs making it to the global photographs making it to the global photographs making it to the global media stories accounts from westerners media stories accounts from westerners media stories accounts from westerners Shanghai had quite a lot of westerners

Shanghai had quite a lot of westerners Shanghai had quite a lot of westerners in it and so the Chinese threw in all in it and so the Chinese threw in all in it and so the Chinese threw in all their best units stuff that they had their best units stuff that they had their best units stuff that they had stockpiled for a long time in other stockpiled for a long time in other stockpiled for a long time in other words they were going to shoot off all words they were going to shoot off all words they were going to shoot off all of their firworks at once to make the of their firworks at once to make the of their firworks at once to make the biggest bang they could make and see if biggest bang they could make and see if biggest bang they could make and see if they could attract Global attention they could attract Global attention they could attract Global attention while they did so the upside this is while they did so the upside this is while they did so the upside this is they did the downside of this is when they did the downside of this is when they did the downside of this is when it's gone it's gone and when the it's gone it's gone and when the it's gone it's gone and when the Japanese after several months of Japanese after several months of Japanese after several months of fighting launching amphibious Invasion fighting launching amphibious Invasion fighting launching amphibious Invasion and open up another front on the city of and open up another front on the city of and open up another front on the city of Shanghai that's the story in terms of Shanghai that's the story in terms of Shanghai that's the story in terms of resistance and the Chinese resistance resistance and the Chinese resistance resistance and the Chinese resistance collapses they've suffered a bazillion collapses they've suffered a bazillion collapses they've suffered a bazillion casualties they're out of stuff and they casualties they're out of stuff and they casualties they're out of stuff and they stream back sort of routing and trying stream back sort of routing and trying stream back sort of routing and trying to get their act together towards the to get their act together towards the to get their act together towards the capital at Nan King now Nan Jing capital at Nan King now Nan Jing capital at Nan King now Nan Jing the Japanese are close on their heels the Japanese are close on their heels the Japanese are close on their heels and as they chase them an atrocity and as they chase them an atrocity and as they chase them an atrocity begins to occur now let me back up here begins to occur now let me back up here begins to occur now let me back up here because I was fascinated and yet I got because I was fascinated and yet I got because I was fascinated and yet I got pulled down the rabbit hole reading pulled down the rabbit hole reading pulled down the rabbit hole reading about the various points of view on what about the various points of view on what about the various points of view on what history calls um some people call it the history calls um some people call it the history calls um some people call it the rape of Nan King other people call it rape of Nan King other people call it rape of Nan King other people call it the Nan King incident the N King the Nan King incident the N King the Nan King incident the N King atrocity and the reason there are all atrocity and the reason there are all atrocity and the reason there are all these different names is because it's these different names is because it's these different names is because it's very controversial in fact fact it's very controversial in fact fact it's very controversial in fact fact it's about as controversial as all those about as controversial as all those about as controversial as all those other genocides war crimes and other genocides war crimes and other genocides war crimes and atrocities that you will see on your atrocities that you will see on your atrocities that you will see on your list if you made a timeline as I said list if you made a timeline as I said list if you made a timeline as I said from the start of the 20th century go to from the start of the 20th century go to from the start of the 20th century go to the people accused of the crime and ask

the people accused of the crime and ask the people accused of the crime and ask them to admit it or ask them to talk them to admit it or ask them to talk them to admit it or ask them to talk about it you'll find a percentage always about it you'll find a percentage always about it you'll find a percentage always that will but most people reflexively that will but most people reflexively that will but most people reflexively get defensive let's understand this is a get defensive let's understand this is a get defensive let's understand this is a human thing and let's understand just human thing and let's understand just human thing and let's understand just how widespread it how widespread it how widespread it is every now and then but regularly you is every now and then but regularly you is every now and then but regularly you will see a news story involving the will see a news story involving the will see a news story involving the Japanese education system and the story Japanese education system and the story Japanese education system and the story is always the same the Japanese is always the same the Japanese is always the same the Japanese textbooks specifically the history textbooks specifically the history textbooks specifically the history textbooks are not are whitewashing is textbooks are not are whitewashing is textbooks are not are whitewashing is the way someone will always whitewashing the way someone will always whitewashing the way someone will always whitewashing downplaying covering up Japanese um downplaying covering up Japanese um downplaying covering up Japanese um atrocities during its aggressive period atrocities during its aggressive period atrocities during its aggressive period in the second world war and PRC World in the second world war and PRC World in the second world war and PRC World War era often times these complaints War era often times these complaints War era often times these complaints will come from people who suffered at will come from people who suffered at will come from people who suffered at the hands of Japanese aggression China the hands of Japanese aggression China the hands of Japanese aggression China the Philippines uh uh the entire area the Philippines uh uh the entire area the Philippines uh uh the entire area around Malaysia I mean there's a bunch around Malaysia I mean there's a bunch around Malaysia I mean there's a bunch of places that were in the Japanese of places that were in the Japanese of places that were in the Japanese orbit for a time and those are often the orbit for a time and those are often the orbit for a time and those are often the people that get angry when Japanese people that get angry when Japanese people that get angry when Japanese atrocities are atrocities are atrocities are downplayed the people that are sometimes downplayed the people that are sometimes downplayed the people that are sometimes the most angry are the Americans who the most angry are the Americans who the most angry are the Americans who fought in that War veterans from fought in that War veterans from fought in that War veterans from Australia Canada Great Australia Canada Great Australia Canada Great Britain all these people want the Britain all these people want the Britain all these people want the Japanese to confront what they did Japanese to confront what they did Japanese to confront what they did but here's the way I want to portray it but here's the way I want to portray it but here's the way I want to portray it in human terms we have similar textbook in human terms we have similar textbook in human terms we have similar textbook issues here in the United States and issues here in the United States and issues here in the United States and many other countries do too and they many other countries do too and they many other countries do too and they often revolve around history class for often revolve around history class for often revolve around history class for middle schoolers and junior high middle schoolers and junior high middle schoolers and junior high schoolers and high

schoolers the arguments are over how schoolers the arguments are over how your own country's bad periods are your own country's bad periods are your own country's bad periods are portrayed and in the United States we portrayed and in the United States we portrayed and in the United States we often have these controversies because often have these controversies because often have these controversies because the nasty things that happened in the the nasty things that happened in the the nasty things that happened in the past are downplayed or sometimes excised past are downplayed or sometimes excised past are downplayed or sometimes excised altogether and the more patriotic good altogether and the more patriotic good altogether and the more patriotic good things are played up now the Japanese things are played up now the Japanese things are played up now the Japanese will often come back with a similar sort will often come back with a similar sort will often come back with a similar sort of response I don't mean to get of response I don't mean to get of response I don't mean to get political but both of the right-wing political but both of the right-wing political but both of the right-wing extra Patriot sides of both countries extra Patriot sides of both countries extra Patriot sides of both countries actually have similar views about what actually have similar views about what actually have similar views about what they want portrayed in their textbooks they want portrayed in their textbooks they want portrayed in their textbooks they want their people they want their people they want their people portrayed portrayed portrayed positively creating a sense of positively creating a sense of positively creating a sense of citizenship pride in your heritage all citizenship pride in your heritage all citizenship pride in your heritage all that kind of stuff and appreciation for that kind of stuff and appreciation for that kind of stuff and appreciation for the things that make your people the things that make your people the things that make your people special and yet I do find it sort of special and yet I do find it sort of special and yet I do find it sort of ironic that if you went to the people in ironic that if you went to the people in ironic that if you went to the people in my country that feel that way and asked my country that feel that way and asked my country that feel that way and asked them about Japanese textbooks they would them about Japanese textbooks they would them about Japanese textbooks they would definitely want the Japanese in most definitely want the Japanese in most definitely want the Japanese in most cases to have to confront you know these cases to have to confront you know these cases to have to confront you know these sorts of things right we the the real sorts of things right we the the real sorts of things right we the the real Patriots in the United States are pretty Patriots in the United States are pretty Patriots in the United States are pretty aware of of Japanese conduct in the aware of of Japanese conduct in the aware of of Japanese conduct in the second world war against our troops and second world war against our troops and second world war against our troops and others and they want that shown but if others and they want that shown but if others and they want that shown but if you then tried to put the shoe on the you then tried to put the shoe on the you then tried to put the shoe on the other foot and say okay in our own other foot and say okay in our own other foot and say okay in our own history books when we're talking about history books when we're talking about history books when we're talking about the Vietnam War how much full color the Vietnam War how much full color the Vietnam War how much full color photography and witness account should photography and witness account should photography and witness account should we devote to something like the mili we devote to something like the mili we devote to something like the mili Massacre those of you who don't know Massacre those of you who don't know Massacre those of you who don't know about the mili Massacre shame uh 1968 about the mili Massacre shame uh 1968 about the mili Massacre shame uh 1968 Vietnam War American soldiers went into Vietnam War American soldiers went into Vietnam War American soldiers went into a hamlet or Village um and when they

a hamlet or Village um and when they a hamlet or Village um and when they came out 300 to 550 villagers men women came out 300 to 550 villagers men women came out 300 to 550 villagers men women and children were dead um rapes occurred and children were dead um rapes occurred and children were dead um rapes occurred I mean it was very very nasty very disol I mean it was very very nasty very disol I mean it was very very nasty very disol illusion in for I can speak from illusion in for I can speak from illusion in for I can speak from experience from in in the 10 years experience from in in the 10 years experience from in in the 10 years afterwards As Americans confronted the afterwards As Americans confronted the afterwards As Americans confronted the fact that we were actually just like fact that we were actually just like fact that we were actually just like everyone else we were not this special everyone else we were not this special everyone else we were not this special Lone Ranger come in save the world in a Lone Ranger come in save the world in a Lone Ranger come in save the world in a couple of world wars rebuild it couple of world wars rebuild it couple of world wars rebuild it afterwards with the Marshall Plan defend afterwards with the Marshall Plan defend afterwards with the Marshall Plan defend it during the Cold War I mean we were it during the Cold War I mean we were it during the Cold War I mean we were all those things all those things all those things too but if you had said to American too but if you had said to American too but if you had said to American people in the 30s or 40s that Americans people in the 30s or 40s that Americans people in the 30s or 40s that Americans would do a Meli type thing I think they would do a Meli type thing I think they would do a Meli type thing I think they would find it hard to believe I think would find it hard to believe I think would find it hard to believe I think what men in combat uh although you know what men in combat uh although you know what men in combat uh although you know I've only read it so take this with a I've only read it so take this with a I've only read it so take this with a grand of salt but I think what they grand of salt but I think what they grand of salt but I think what they would say is that in certain situations would say is that in certain situations would say is that in certain situations things can become very unpredictable and things can become very unpredictable and things can become very unpredictable and when there is a lack of strong when there is a lack of strong when there is a lack of strong leadership in those situations they can leadership in those situations they can leadership in those situations they can become deadly I'd like to draw a become deadly I'd like to draw a become deadly I'd like to draw a distinction between two kinds of distinction between two kinds of distinction between two kinds of atrocities here you saw both kinds in atrocities here you saw both kinds in atrocities here you saw both kinds in the second world war by the way and the second world war by the way and the second world war by the way and trying to link the two of them trying to link the two of them trying to link the two of them not only Twisted some of the post-war not only Twisted some of the post-war not only Twisted some of the post-war war crimes trials into knots but affects war crimes trials into knots but affects war crimes trials into knots but affects us even today the difference between a us even today the difference between a us even today the difference between a topdown atrocity of the sort for example topdown atrocity of the sort for example topdown atrocity of the sort for example that Hitler and the Nazis were doing that Hitler and the Nazis were doing that Hitler and the Nazis were doing with the final solution the kind and with the final solution the kind and with the final solution the kind and Assyrian king would do for a Babylonian

Assyrian king would do for a Babylonian Assyrian king would do for a Babylonian Final Solution a top- down order uh and Final Solution a top- down order uh and Final Solution a top- down order uh and if you're the guy on the ground you're if you're the guy on the ground you're if you're the guy on the ground you're killing people and executing people and killing people and executing people and killing people and executing people and committing an atrocity because you're committing an atrocity because you're committing an atrocity because you're ordered to ordered to ordered to or the kind that happens of the sort for or the kind that happens of the sort for or the kind that happens of the sort for example that the ancient Roman Latin example that the ancient Roman Latin example that the ancient Roman Latin historian TST says happened during a historian TST says happened during a historian TST says happened during a Roman Civil War at a city called Crona Roman Civil War at a city called Crona Roman Civil War at a city called Crona this was a scandal so he wrote about it this was a scandal so he wrote about it this was a scandal so he wrote about it and he's almost a contemporary and the and he's almost a contemporary and the and he's almost a contemporary and the story basically goes it it's a story story basically goes it it's a story story basically goes it it's a story about troops when they get their blood about troops when they get their blood about troops when they get their blood lust up and it reminds us that you know lust up and it reminds us that you know lust up and it reminds us that you know people can be venal too in large groups people can be venal too in large groups people can be venal too in large groups that can come out even in a more that can come out even in a more that can come out even in a more pronounced way and what made Crona so pronounced way and what made Crona so pronounced way and what made Crona so terrible is it's a sacking of a city terrible is it's a sacking of a city terrible is it's a sacking of a city which is what the destruction of Babylon which is what the destruction of Babylon which is what the destruction of Babylon was and what the destruction of the city was and what the destruction of the city was and what the destruction of the city of Nan Jing is going to of Nan Jing is going to of Nan Jing is going to be that would be Nan King back in the be that would be Nan King back in the be that would be Nan King back in the second world war it's a sacking of a second world war it's a sacking of a second world war it's a sacking of a city and tacitus says that these city and tacitus says that these city and tacitus says that these soldiers wanted to sack the city that soldiers wanted to sack the city that soldiers wanted to sack the city that they were worried that the city would they were worried that the city would they were worried that the city would surrender and if it surrendered to their surrender and if it surrendered to their surrender and if it surrendered to their Commander the Roman general well then he Commander the Roman general well then he Commander the Roman general well then he got the spoil so the Army tacitus says got the spoil so the Army tacitus says got the spoil so the Army tacitus says and he was a veteran by the way really and he was a veteran by the way really and he was a veteran by the way really wanted the city to not surrender so they wanted the city to not surrender so they wanted the city to not surrender so they could loot it the city did surrender it could loot it the city did surrender it could loot it the city did surrender it was a Roman city by the way and the was a Roman city by the way and the was a Roman city by the way and the citizens in it were Roman the Roman army citizens in it were Roman the Roman army citizens in it were Roman the Roman army outside the city still wanted to loot outside the city still wanted to loot outside the city still wanted to loot the city so they did for several

the city so they did for several the city so they did for several days the account is one of the really days the account is one of the really days the account is one of the really wicked accounts in the ancient world wicked accounts in the ancient world wicked accounts in the ancient world and it's funny though because if you and it's funny though because if you and it's funny though because if you took out the particulars it would took out the particulars it would took out the particulars it would probably work as a reasonable probably work as a reasonable probably work as a reasonable description of description of description of 10,000 sackings of cities in human 10,000 sackings of cities in human 10,000 sackings of cities in human history tacitus wrote about the history tacitus wrote about the history tacitus wrote about the destruction of Crona a Roman city by destruction of Crona a Roman city by destruction of Crona a Roman city by Roman soldiers after surrendering and he Roman soldiers after surrendering and he Roman soldiers after surrendering and he says quote 40,000 armed men forced their says quote 40,000 armed men forced their says quote 40,000 armed men forced their way into the way into the way into the city neither r nor years saved the city neither r nor years saved the city neither r nor years saved the victims from an indiscriminate orgy in victims from an indiscriminate orgy in victims from an indiscriminate orgy in which rape alternated with murder and which rape alternated with murder and which rape alternated with murder and murder with rape gray beards and frail murder with rape gray beards and frail murder with rape gray beards and frail old women who had no value as loot were old women who had no value as loot were old women who had no value as loot were dragged off to raise a laugh but any dragged off to raise a laugh but any dragged off to raise a laugh but any full-grown girl or good-look lad who full-grown girl or good-look lad who full-grown girl or good-look lad who crossed their path was pulled this way crossed their path was pulled this way crossed their path was pulled this way and that in a violent tug of war between and that in a violent tug of war between and that in a violent tug of war between the wbe the wbe the wbe captors a single looter trailing a horde captors a single looter trailing a horde captors a single looter trailing a horde of money or Temple offerings of massive of money or Temple offerings of massive of money or Temple offerings of massive gold was often cut to Pieces by others gold was often cut to Pieces by others gold was often cut to Pieces by others who were stronger and in their hands who were stronger and in their hands who were stronger and in their hands they held fire Brands which once they they held fire Brands which once they they held fire Brands which once they got their spoil away they wantonly flung got their spoil away they wantonly flung got their spoil away they wantonly flung into empty houses and rifle into empty houses and rifle into empty houses and rifle temples there was a diversity of wild temples there was a diversity of wild temples there was a diversity of wild desires differing conceptions of what desires differing conceptions of what desires differing conceptions of what was lawful and nothing barred Crona was lawful and nothing barred Crona was lawful and nothing barred Crona lasted them four lasted them four lasted them four days end days end days end quote we would be mistaken thinking that quote we would be mistaken thinking that quote we would be mistaken thinking that this is something particularly Roman or

this is something particularly Roman or this is something particularly Roman or particularly ancient there's something particularly ancient there's something particularly ancient there's something that goes on in certain situations and that goes on in certain situations and that goes on in certain situations and you can reliably see it again and you can reliably see it again and you can reliably see it again and again in December again in December again in December 1937 you see it in Nan King Nan King though is so much harder King Nan King though is so much harder to deal with than something like a Crona to deal with than something like a Crona to deal with than something like a Crona or the Iron Age destruction of Babylon or the Iron Age destruction of Babylon or the Iron Age destruction of Babylon because it's still a white hot it's because it's still a white hot it's because it's still a white hot it's incandescent in terms of how passionate incandescent in terms of how passionate incandescent in terms of how passionate and upset set and how visceral the and upset set and how visceral the and upset set and how visceral the arguments over it can get people get arguments over it can get people get arguments over it can get people get death threats death threats death threats regularly one of the books I bought for regularly one of the books I bought for regularly one of the books I bought for this subject and by the way we post all this subject and by the way we post all this subject and by the way we post all of the research materials in the show of the research materials in the show of the research materials in the show notes on the website for the shows notes on the website for the shows notes on the website for the shows encourage you to buy these books by the encourage you to buy these books by the encourage you to buy these books by the way especially if you like this stuff way especially if you like this stuff way especially if you like this stuff some of the Nan King stuff is positively some of the Nan King stuff is positively some of the Nan King stuff is positively Kennedy assassination Kennedy assassination Kennedy assassination esque in terms of the minutia and detail esque in terms of the minutia and detail esque in terms of the minutia and detail and how big points can often revolve and how big points can often revolve and how big points can often revolve around small little things you know around small little things you know around small little things you know think Magic think Magic think Magic Bullet but a lot of people love that Bullet but a lot of people love that Bullet but a lot of people love that stuff and and reading it uh one of them stuff and and reading it uh one of them stuff and and reading it uh one of them uh great book The Nan King atrocity uh great book The Nan King atrocity uh great book The Nan King atrocity 1937-38 complicating the picture has 1937-38 complicating the picture has 1937-38 complicating the picture has different Scholars writing each chapter different Scholars writing each chapter different Scholars writing each chapter from a wide you know range of people and from a wide you know range of people and from a wide you know range of people and one of the things that the Japanese one of the things that the Japanese one of the things that the Japanese editor of the book said in the editor of the book said in the editor of the book said in the introduction is that several of the introduction is that several of the introduction is that several of the contributors had had their lives contributors had had their lives contributors had had their lives threatened some of them face to face for threatened some of them face to face for threatened some of them face to face for their writings research uh teachings and

their writings research uh teachings and their writings research uh teachings and lectures on this lectures on this lectures on this stuff don't have a whole lot of people stuff don't have a whole lot of people stuff don't have a whole lot of people threatening bash your head in because of threatening bash your head in because of threatening bash your head in because of your views on Crona do your views on Crona do your views on Crona do you I'll give you an example of a you I'll give you an example of a you I'll give you an example of a problem that a history fan faces trying problem that a history fan faces trying problem that a history fan faces trying to talk about this if you wanted to make to talk about this if you wanted to make to talk about this if you wanted to make a graph of the range of opinions on what a graph of the range of opinions on what a graph of the range of opinions on what the death toll is in Nan King in the death toll is in Nan King in the death toll is in Nan King in December and onward for months on one December and onward for months on one December and onward for months on one side of the spectrum you have the side of the spectrum you have the side of the spectrum you have the Japanese people who fall into the um Japanese people who fall into the um Japanese people who fall into the um class that are known as The deniers Who class that are known as The deniers Who class that are known as The deniers Who consider everything that we're going to consider everything that we're going to consider everything that we're going to talk about here to be an illusion caused talk about here to be an illusion caused talk about here to be an illusion caused by a combination of contemporary wartime by a combination of contemporary wartime by a combination of contemporary wartime propaganda and a lot of marxist stuff propaganda and a lot of marxist stuff propaganda and a lot of marxist stuff especially by leftist Japanese Marxist especially by leftist Japanese Marxist especially by leftist Japanese Marxist teachers who are polluting the minds of teachers who are polluting the minds of teachers who are polluting the minds of their own children I mean it's a super their own children I mean it's a super their own children I mean it's a super Patriot Point of View with a tinge of Patriot Point of View with a tinge of Patriot Point of View with a tinge of conspiracy that would probably resonate conspiracy that would probably resonate conspiracy that would probably resonate in a bunch of different countries with in a bunch of different countries with in a bunch of different countries with that same group of people you know there that same group of people you know there that same group of people you know there probably all countries probably all countries probably all countries actually we said in the earlier com actually we said in the earlier com actually we said in the earlier com conversation that like the Jewish folks conversation that like the Jewish folks conversation that like the Jewish folks that this phrase was originally applied that this phrase was originally applied that this phrase was originally applied to the Japanese are really intense to the Japanese are really intense to the Japanese are really intense they're like everybody else only more so they're like everybody else only more so they're like everybody else only more so or just like anybody else only more so or just like anybody else only more so or just like anybody else only more so and I think you see it in the passions and I think you see it in the passions and I think you see it in the passions here too when people get so upset about here too when people get so upset about here too when people get so upset about you know Bing the reputation of the you know Bing the reputation of the you know Bing the reputation of the Imperial Japanese Army and the Imperial Japanese Army and the Imperial Japanese Army and the country they get angry as Patriots will country they get angry as Patriots will country they get angry as Patriots will do especially if they don't think it's

do especially if they don't think it's do especially if they don't think it's deserved and the people on one side of deserved and the people on one side of deserved and the people on one side of the spectrum here will claim that maybe the spectrum here will claim that maybe the spectrum here will claim that maybe 45 people died in this Nan King thing 45 people died in this Nan King thing 45 people died in this Nan King thing and those may have been Justified one and those may have been Justified one and those may have been Justified one way or way or way or another now on the far opposite end of another now on the far opposite end of another now on the far opposite end of the scale and the Spectrum you have the scale and the Spectrum you have the scale and the Spectrum you have Chinese historians and the Chinese Chinese historians and the Chinese Chinese historians and the Chinese official government official government official government line they've actually carved a number line they've actually carved a number line they've actually carved a number their number into a rock I saw a picture their number into a rock I saw a picture their number into a rock I saw a picture of it um it's a little like you know of it um it's a little like you know of it um it's a little like you know proverbially carving it into stone I proverbially carving it into stone I proverbially carving it into stone I guess that is what they're doing and the guess that is what they're doing and the guess that is what they're doing and the attempt is to create it pretty clear a attempt is to create it pretty clear a attempt is to create it pretty clear a number that has the same sort of number that has the same sort of number that has the same sort of intellectual resonance with the global intellectual resonance with the global intellectual resonance with the global population that the 6 million number has population that the 6 million number has population that the 6 million number has for the Holocaust I mean everybody knows for the Holocaust I mean everybody knows for the Holocaust I mean everybody knows six million okay where'd you come up six million okay where'd you come up six million okay where'd you come up with that number could have been six with that number could have been six with that number could have been six million and one I mean nobody knows million and one I mean nobody knows million and one I mean nobody knows right 5 million 7 million but you come right 5 million 7 million but you come right 5 million 7 million but you come up with a nice round number and up with a nice round number and up with a nice round number and eventually people go oh yeah the eventually people go oh yeah the eventually people go oh yeah the Holocaust about six million people died Holocaust about six million people died Holocaust about six million people died there the Chinese are trying to do this there the Chinese are trying to do this there the Chinese are trying to do this with the Nan King atrocity and the with the Nan King atrocity and the with the Nan King atrocity and the number that they've settled on is number that they've settled on is number that they've settled on is 300,000 Dead 3 100,000 300,000 Dead 3 100,000 300,000 Dead 3 100,000 dead and there are Chinese historians dead and there are Chinese historians dead and there are Chinese historians and let's acknowledge here maybe not and let's acknowledge here maybe not and let's acknowledge here maybe not operating with complete freedom in terms operating with complete freedom in terms operating with complete freedom in terms of being able to follow the historical of being able to follow the historical of being able to follow the historical evidence wherever it takes them but evidence wherever it takes them but evidence wherever it takes them but there are Chinese historians that will there are Chinese historians that will there are Chinese historians that will bump that number up bump that number up bump that number up considerably the 350,000 range is not considerably the 350,000 range is not considerably the 350,000 range is not unheard of at all if you want to go to unheard of at all if you want to go to unheard of at all if you want to go to Crazy Town and and find the very end of Crazy Town and and find the very end of Crazy Town and and find the very end of the spectrum what's the largest number the spectrum what's the largest number the spectrum what's the largest number you've ever seen what's the insane large you've ever seen what's the insane large you've ever seen what's the insane large 500,000 I saw a half million once not

500,000 I saw a half million once not 500,000 I saw a half million once not credible but that's what I saw 45 is not credible but that's what I saw 45 is not credible but that's what I saw 45 is not credible either on the other end but now credible either on the other end but now credible either on the other end but now on that scale are a bunch of different on that scale are a bunch of different on that scale are a bunch of different gradients of people's and their views on gradients of people's and their views on gradients of people's and their views on this subject that's why it's really this subject that's why it's really this subject that's why it's really difficult to talk about because it's not difficult to talk about because it's not difficult to talk about because it's not just an it didn't happen yes it did just an it didn't happen yes it did just an it didn't happen yes it did thing it's well sure it did but it only thing it's well sure it did but it only thing it's well sure it did but it only happened here or yes it did but it only happened here or yes it did but it only happened here or yes it did but it only happened to these people it's I mean happened to these people it's I mean happened to these people it's I mean just the lawyerly breakdown over the just the lawyerly breakdown over the just the lawyerly breakdown over the geographical boundaries where someone geographical boundaries where someone geographical boundaries where someone who dies in this you know quadrant who dies in this you know quadrant who dies in this you know quadrant counts as a Nan King atrocity casualty counts as a Nan King atrocity casualty counts as a Nan King atrocity casualty and someone who dies outside that and someone who dies outside that and someone who dies outside that quadrant doesn't I mean it gets silly quadrant doesn't I mean it gets silly quadrant doesn't I mean it gets silly like that the Chinese historians point like that the Chinese historians point like that the Chinese historians point out and supposedly this is why China out and supposedly this is why China out and supposedly this is why China didn't make a huge deal specifically didn't make a huge deal specifically didn't make a huge deal specifically over the Nan King situation in the first over the Nan King situation in the first over the Nan King situation in the first few decades after the war was because few decades after the war was because few decades after the war was because this was more par for the course than this was more par for the course than this was more par for the course than not and part of the way you get some of not and part of the way you get some of not and part of the way you get some of these really large number counts is the these really large number counts is the these really large number counts is the Chinese historians sometimes include the Chinese historians sometimes include the Chinese historians sometimes include the soldiers from the Battle of Shanghai who soldiers from the Battle of Shanghai who soldiers from the Battle of Shanghai who who died in part because the Japanese who died in part because the Japanese who died in part because the Japanese troops who took their surrender or who troops who took their surrender or who troops who took their surrender or who captured them or who found them wounded captured them or who found them wounded captured them or who found them wounded on the battlefield executed them on the battlefield executed them on the battlefield executed them there this is another part of the there this is another part of the there this is another part of the gradient in the discussion right who do gradient in the discussion right who do gradient in the discussion right who do you count if you're talking about you count if you're talking about you count if you're talking about soldiers do they count in the atrocity soldiers do they count in the atrocity soldiers do they count in the atrocity well what if you killed them after they well what if you killed them after they well what if you killed them after they surrendered as I said a bunch of surrendered as I said a bunch of surrendered as I said a bunch of different people have different opinions different people have different opinions different people have different opinions along the Spectrum now if you're looking

along the Spectrum now if you're looking along the Spectrum now if you're looking for a did range to try to get sort of a for a did range to try to get sort of a for a did range to try to get sort of a little ballast on this question a lot of little ballast on this question a lot of little ballast on this question a lot of the mainstream mainstream historians the mainstream mainstream historians the mainstream mainstream historians will range from like 100,000 dead to will range from like 100,000 dead to will range from like 100,000 dead to 250,000 dead and that is a huge number 250,000 dead and that is a huge number 250,000 dead and that is a huge number no matter which it no matter which it no matter which it is the other question that always comes is the other question that always comes is the other question that always comes up in a case like this and this is up in a case like this and this is up in a case like this and this is connected to the Nazi situation in connected to the Nazi situation in connected to the Nazi situation in Europe but is who's responsible where Europe but is who's responsible where Europe but is who's responsible where does the responsibility lie because you does the responsibility lie because you does the responsibility lie because you will often hear these situations and will often hear these situations and will often hear these situations and some sometimes it's valid compared to some sometimes it's valid compared to some sometimes it's valid compared to the sacking of Crona where you have the sacking of Crona where you have the sacking of Crona where you have troops you know a loss of institutional troops you know a loss of institutional troops you know a loss of institutional control maybe on the part of the leaders control maybe on the part of the leaders control maybe on the part of the leaders or a callous disregard for the plight of or a callous disregard for the plight of or a callous disregard for the plight of people you know that your lower level people you know that your lower level people you know that your lower level troops were despoiling whatever it might troops were despoiling whatever it might troops were despoiling whatever it might be you'll hear that some people would be you'll hear that some people would be you'll hear that some people would make the case that all of this is make the case that all of this is make the case that all of this is premeditated it might as well have been premeditated it might as well have been premeditated it might as well have been Nazi Nazi Nazi stuff and once again we get divided into stuff and once again we get divided into stuff and once again we get divided into separating soldiers from civilians but separating soldiers from civilians but separating soldiers from civilians but there's an interesting little bridge there's an interesting little bridge there's an interesting little bridge between the between the between the two and that's soldiers who dress up as two and that's soldiers who dress up as two and that's soldiers who dress up as civilians now before we get into this civilians now before we get into this civilians now before we get into this story you're entitled to know how I come story you're entitled to know how I come story you're entitled to know how I come to my thinking and if anything my own to my thinking and if anything my own to my thinking and if anything my own bias to me my normal approach is to put bias to me my normal approach is to put bias to me my normal approach is to put myself in other people's viewpoints to myself in other people's viewpoints to myself in other people's viewpoints to try to see their try to see their try to see their perspective but trying to see the perspective but trying to see the perspective but trying to see the perspective of the side that thinks perspective of the side that thinks perspective of the side that thinks there's 45 or 100 or 200 deaths here in

there's 45 or 100 or 200 deaths here in there's 45 or 100 or 200 deaths here in there explain a away a feels like trying there explain a away a feels like trying there explain a away a feels like trying to be a defender of a holocaust denier to be a defender of a holocaust denier to be a defender of a holocaust denier it's a really difficult position for me it's a really difficult position for me it's a really difficult position for me to put myself in uh I I think you should to put myself in uh I I think you should to put myself in uh I I think you should point it out I have a very hard time point it out I have a very hard time point it out I have a very hard time putting myself even if you were in putting myself even if you were in putting myself even if you were in debating class and they said you have to debating class and they said you have to debating class and they said you have to take this perspective and defend take this perspective and defend take this perspective and defend it I am usually open-minded enough to uh it I am usually open-minded enough to uh it I am usually open-minded enough to uh keep a lot of Doubt open though keep a lot of Doubt open though keep a lot of Doubt open though depending on the other circumstances depending on the other circumstances depending on the other circumstances involved for involved for involved for example if this was a very unusual example if this was a very unusual example if this was a very unusual incident in the second Sino Japanese war incident in the second Sino Japanese war incident in the second Sino Japanese war or the second World War I think I'd be or the second World War I think I'd be or the second World War I think I'd be inclined to say listen wartime inclined to say listen wartime inclined to say listen wartime propaganda I mean those people might propaganda I mean those people might propaganda I mean those people might have a point the problem is is that the have a point the problem is is that the have a point the problem is is that the Japanese Army and Navy to a degree but Japanese Army and Navy to a degree but Japanese Army and Navy to a degree but the Army certainly is a repeat offender the Army certainly is a repeat offender the Army certainly is a repeat offender in this war both the soo Japanese one in this war both the soo Japanese one in this war both the soo Japanese one and the second world war by by the way and the second world war by by the way and the second world war by by the way by 1937 a lot of people think that the by 1937 a lot of people think that the by 1937 a lot of people think that the second world war has started so it second world war has started so it second world war has started so it depends a lot of people when I was a kid depends a lot of people when I was a kid depends a lot of people when I was a kid always started it with the invasion of always started it with the invasion of always started it with the invasion of Poland but since then a lot of opinion Poland but since then a lot of opinion Poland but since then a lot of opinion has shifted and said you know really has shifted and said you know really has shifted and said you know really 1937 this the Japanese are in World War 1937 this the Japanese are in World War 1937 this the Japanese are in World War II the other powers just aren't in yet II the other powers just aren't in yet II the other powers just aren't in yet themselves the Chinese and the Japanese themselves the Chinese and the Japanese themselves the Chinese and the Japanese are starting the second world war and in are starting the second world war and in are starting the second world war and in this case the Japanese will behave this case the Japanese will behave this case the Japanese will behave toward the Chinese toward the Chinese toward the Chinese atrociously and you have to really write atrociously and you have to really write atrociously and you have to really write off a ton of evidence including your own off a ton of evidence including your own off a ton of evidence including your own soldiers and commanders diary

soldiers and commanders diary soldiers and commanders diary if you want to explain it away you also have to deal with the you away you also have to deal with the you know remembrances of combat know remembrances of combat know remembrances of combat veterans from pretty much every Power veterans from pretty much every Power veterans from pretty much every Power that fought the Japanese in the second that fought the Japanese in the second that fought the Japanese in the second world war where atrocious behavior and a world war where atrocious behavior and a world war where atrocious behavior and a certain brutal level of conduct was certain brutal level of conduct was certain brutal level of conduct was always remarked upon and that's after always remarked upon and that's after always remarked upon and that's after you factor out racism and hatred of the you factor out racism and hatred of the you factor out racism and hatred of the enemy who killed your buddies and all enemy who killed your buddies and all enemy who killed your buddies and all that other stuff I mean there's a ton of that other stuff I mean there's a ton of that other stuff I mean there's a ton of evidence and the questions over why and evidence and the questions over why and evidence and the questions over why and what's going on here have been ongoing what's going on here have been ongoing what's going on here have been ongoing and they sort of in a smaller way and they sort of in a smaller way and they sort of in a smaller way parallel the ones going on after the parallel the ones going on after the parallel the ones going on after the second world war with the Nazis where second world war with the Nazis where second world war with the Nazis where you had things like the mgrm experiment you had things like the mgrm experiment you had things like the mgrm experiment and all these other things where people and all these other things where people and all these other things where people were trying to figure out listen you were trying to figure out listen you were trying to figure out listen you know how do you get people to turn off know how do you get people to turn off know how do you get people to turn off their moral compass could we all be their moral compass could we all be their moral compass could we all be Nazis and it was trying to figure out Nazis and it was trying to figure out Nazis and it was trying to figure out motivations and how you you do that I motivations and how you you do that I motivations and how you you do that I mean in the second world war and mean in the second world war and mean in the second world war and afterwards and let's remember the afterwards and let's remember the afterwards and let's remember the Japanese public knew very little of this Japanese public knew very little of this Japanese public knew very little of this stuff although some of the stuff that stuff although some of the stuff that stuff although some of the stuff that they did know and sort of celebrate is they did know and sort of celebrate is they did know and sort of celebrate is once again a little weird by Western once again a little weird by Western once again a little weird by Western standards for example there's a famous standards for example there's a famous standards for example there's a famous incident in Nan King where two soldiers incident in Nan King where two soldiers incident in Nan King where two soldiers were having supposedly this is in the were having supposedly this is in the were having supposedly this is in the Japanese news media a contest a Chinese Japanese news media a contest a Chinese Japanese news media a contest a Chinese head shopping contest and the tally was head shopping contest and the tally was head shopping contest and the tally was being kept score regularly in the being kept score regularly in the being kept score regularly in the newspaper you know this this guy's up to newspaper you know this this guy's up to newspaper you know this this guy's up to 75 now oh but three heads today by the 75 now oh but three heads today by the 75 now oh but three heads today by the other guy and he takes the lead and it other guy and he takes the lead and it other guy and he takes the lead and it was always used as evidence of you know

was always used as evidence of you know was always used as evidence of you know you're looking for a sign that this you're looking for a sign that this you're looking for a sign that this brutality happened well my goodness they brutality happened well my goodness they brutality happened well my goodness they were celebrating in Japan's were celebrating in Japan's were celebrating in Japan's newspapers turns out most uh main newspapers turns out most uh main newspapers turns out most uh main mainstream excuse me but you know what I mainstream excuse me but you know what I mainstream excuse me but you know what I mean uh historians that I've been mean uh historians that I've been mean uh historians that I've been reading suggest that that never happened reading suggest that that never happened reading suggest that that never happened and that it was a figment of the press's and that it was a figment of the press's and that it was a figment of the press's desire to whip up an interesting story desire to whip up an interesting story desire to whip up an interesting story that got people reading which it did it that got people reading which it did it that got people reading which it did it does of course beg the question about an does of course beg the question about an does of course beg the question about an audience who thought that that was worth audience who thought that that was worth audience who thought that that was worth celebrating but there have been celebrating but there have been celebrating but there have been speculations forever and the the early speculations forever and the the early speculations forever and the the early ones during the war were always you know ones during the war were always you know ones during the war were always you know racist and cultural with this is just racist and cultural with this is just racist and cultural with this is just how the Japanese are since then there how the Japanese are since then there how the Japanese are since then there have been a lot of interesting ones have been a lot of interesting ones have been a lot of interesting ones including ones from Japan and just to including ones from Japan and just to including ones from Japan and just to give you an idea of one of them they'll give you an idea of one of them they'll give you an idea of one of them they'll talk about the brutality in the Japanese talk about the brutality in the Japanese talk about the brutality in the Japanese Army where apparently being punched in Army where apparently being punched in Army where apparently being punched in the face hard with a closed fist by your the face hard with a closed fist by your the face hard with a closed fist by your Superior was not uncommon and there's Superior was not uncommon and there's Superior was not uncommon and there's plenty of reports about people having to plenty of reports about people having to plenty of reports about people having to commit executions or the um the killing commit executions or the um the killing commit executions or the um the killing of Po W's as part of a sort of blooding of Po W's as part of a sort of blooding of Po W's as part of a sort of blooding you it's a very old-fashioned idea once you it's a very old-fashioned idea once you it's a very old-fashioned idea once again a lot of the things the Japanese again a lot of the things the Japanese again a lot of the things the Japanese are going to be in trouble for in the are going to be in trouble for in the are going to be in trouble for in the second world war are things that people second world war are things that people second world war are things that people didn't even bat an eyelash 500 years ago didn't even bat an eyelash 500 years ago didn't even bat an eyelash 500 years ago about in fact 500 years ago they about in fact 500 years ago they about in fact 500 years ago they wouldn't have known it ever happened wouldn't have known it ever happened wouldn't have known it ever happened outside of a very close geographical outside of a very close geographical outside of a very close geographical area that's another thing that's area that's another thing that's area that's another thing that's different about Nan King there's different about Nan King there's different about Nan King there's telegraphs there there's embassies telegraphs there there's embassies telegraphs there there's embassies there's westerners there's us and there's westerners there's us and there's westerners there's us and British both

British both British both ships in the yangi river the real world outside this area river the real world outside this area is going to hear about what's happening is going to hear about what's happening is going to hear about what's happening inside Nan King and they're going to inside Nan King and they're going to inside Nan King and they're going to hear about it while it's going hear about it while it's going hear about it while it's going on it's a Thoroughly Modern situation on it's a Thoroughly Modern situation on it's a Thoroughly Modern situation that we have seen over and over again that we have seen over and over again that we have seen over and over again since where there will be some terrible since where there will be some terrible since where there will be some terrible atrocity crisis humanitarian disaster atrocity crisis humanitarian disaster atrocity crisis humanitarian disaster genocide War crime going on somewhere in genocide War crime going on somewhere in genocide War crime going on somewhere in the world and unfolding in real time and the world and unfolding in real time and the world and unfolding in real time and all the great powers are kind of under all the great powers are kind of under all the great powers are kind of under the gun at that point when everybody the gun at that point when everybody the gun at that point when everybody says my goodness something has to be says my goodness something has to be says my goodness something has to be done or more people will die but the done or more people will die but the done or more people will die but the world global geopolitical Powers rarely world global geopolitical Powers rarely world global geopolitical Powers rarely react at speed on these kind of things react at speed on these kind of things react at speed on these kind of things but it's been a little bit of an but it's been a little bit of an but it's been a little bit of an unsolvable problem you see it in Nan unsolvable problem you see it in Nan unsolvable problem you see it in Nan King for sure because what's going to King for sure because what's going to King for sure because what's going to happen there will unfold over a period happen there will unfold over a period happen there will unfold over a period of of of weeks and the world will be put into a weeks and the world will be put into a weeks and the world will be put into a moral quandry over what what to do so picking up the story after the do so picking up the story after the battle of Shanghai the Chinese forces battle of Shanghai the Chinese forces battle of Shanghai the Chinese forces Retreat toward the capital Nan Jing Nan Retreat toward the capital Nan Jing Nan Retreat toward the capital Nan Jing Nan King I think it's like 140 150 miles King I think it's like 140 150 miles King I think it's like 140 150 miles west of Shanghai and during the retreat west of Shanghai and during the retreat west of Shanghai and during the retreat the Japanese lead elements are trying to the Japanese lead elements are trying to the Japanese lead elements are trying to surround the Chinese so this is a a surround the Chinese so this is a a surround the Chinese so this is a a flight with the Japanese in Hot flight with the Japanese in Hot flight with the Japanese in Hot Pursuit there are also civilians along Pursuit there are also civilians along Pursuit there are also civilians along the path there are aircraft strafing and the path there are aircraft strafing and the path there are aircraft strafing and bombing the roads bombing the roads bombing the roads you get this sense of chaos and bedum

you get this sense of chaos and bedum you get this sense of chaos and bedum and claustrophobia and panic and you and claustrophobia and panic and you and claustrophobia and panic and you know I've seen um you've seen war know I've seen um you've seen war know I've seen um you've seen war footage since that time that you really footage since that time that you really footage since that time that you really get a sense and the camera gives you a get a sense and the camera gives you a get a sense and the camera gives you a very good sense of a combination of very good sense of a combination of very good sense of a combination of things that must have been working on things that must have been working on things that must have been working on these people too the fluidity of the these people too the fluidity of the these people too the fluidity of the situation right everything is moving situation right everything is moving situation right everything is moving quickly and you're in the middle of it quickly and you're in the middle of it quickly and you're in the middle of it and also a complete lack of knowledge and also a complete lack of knowledge and also a complete lack of knowledge about what's going on outside your field about what's going on outside your field about what's going on outside your field of vision or whatever the person next to of vision or whatever the person next to of vision or whatever the person next to you can say you can say you can say the combination of those two things is the combination of those two things is the combination of those two things is panic panic panic inducing so imagine a sort of a bedum as inducing so imagine a sort of a bedum as inducing so imagine a sort of a bedum as these this this line of humanity pursued these this this line of humanity pursued these this this line of humanity pursued by the Japanese runs toward Nan King the by the Japanese runs toward Nan King the by the Japanese runs toward Nan King the Japanese arrive close on their heels and Japanese arrive close on their heels and Japanese arrive close on their heels and mostly surround the city and on December mostly surround the city and on December mostly surround the city and on December 9th they're outside this walled city of 9th they're outside this walled city of 9th they're outside this walled city of Nan King at looks like a sort of a Nan King at looks like a sort of a Nan King at looks like a sort of a European medieval city demanding its European medieval city demanding its European medieval city demanding its surrender there is a Chinese General in surrender there is a Chinese General in surrender there is a Chinese General in command of a hastily thrown together but command of a hastily thrown together but command of a hastily thrown together but relatively you know it's China large relatively you know it's China large relatively you know it's China large number of soldiers some of them green number of soldiers some of them green number of soldiers some of them green some of them old and reservist some of some of them old and reservist some of some of them old and reservist some of them from the battle that just was over them from the battle that just was over them from the battle that just was over in Shanghai and they're you know not fed in Shanghai and they're you know not fed in Shanghai and they're you know not fed they don't have their weapons they're uh they don't have their weapons they're uh they don't have their weapons they're uh maybe defeatist I mean it's it's a it's maybe defeatist I mean it's it's a it's maybe defeatist I mean it's it's a it's a bit of a mly crew but they're going to a bit of a mly crew but they're going to a bit of a mly crew but they're going to defend the city so for four days they defend the city so for four days they defend the city so for four days they hold out before that general orders a hold out before that general orders a hold out before that general orders a retreat he leaves the government Le Lees retreat he leaves the government Le Lees retreat he leaves the government Le Lees and you have now a city with hundreds of and you have now a city with hundreds of and you have now a city with hundreds of thousands of people including refugees

thousands of people including refugees thousands of people including refugees that's being bombed and no governmental that's being bombed and no governmental that's being bombed and no governmental services or anyone in charge the services or anyone in charge the services or anyone in charge the Japanese have yet to take over and it's Japanese have yet to take over and it's Japanese have yet to take over and it's one of the great stories by the way of one of the great stories by the way of one of the great stories by the way of this City's plight and that's that there this City's plight and that's that there this City's plight and that's that there were a group of westerners in the city were a group of westerners in the city were a group of westerners in the city most most of the westerners ran away as most most of the westerners ran away as most most of the westerners ran away as soon as the Japanese Army came but but a soon as the Japanese Army came but but a soon as the Japanese Army came but but a bunch of different people businessmen bunch of different people businessmen bunch of different people businessmen and others humanitarians doctors stayed and others humanitarians doctors stayed and others humanitarians doctors stayed and they weren't there to take care of and they weren't there to take care of and they weren't there to take care of all these people but when that fell into all these people but when that fell into all these people but when that fell into their lap they stepped up to do it their lap they stepped up to do it their lap they stepped up to do it there's a little ironic twist to the there's a little ironic twist to the there's a little ironic twist to the story too and they recently made a movie story too and they recently made a movie story too and they recently made a movie uh out of basically almost playing on uh out of basically almost playing on uh out of basically almost playing on that twist and it's that the guy that that twist and it's that the guy that that twist and it's that the guy that was sort of elected by this you know ad was sort of elected by this you know ad was sort of elected by this you know ad hoc group to be uh the leader was a Nazi hoc group to be uh the leader was a Nazi hoc group to be uh the leader was a Nazi an Ardent Nazi as the sources describe an Ardent Nazi as the sources describe an Ardent Nazi as the sources describe and a businessman John rabbe and part of and a businessman John rabbe and part of and a businessman John rabbe and part of the reason he gets the gig is because the reason he gets the gig is because the reason he gets the gig is because the Japanese government and the Nazi the Japanese government and the Nazi the Japanese government and the Nazi German government have been moving German government have been moving German government have been moving closer together and maybe he has a closer together and maybe he has a closer together and maybe he has a little bit more pull with the Japanese little bit more pull with the Japanese little bit more pull with the Japanese that are just about to take over the that are just about to take over the that are just about to take over the city than maybe a British or American or city than maybe a British or American or city than maybe a British or American or I think there was a Danish guy um maybe I think there was a Danish guy um maybe I think there was a Danish guy um maybe they don't have as much pull so this guy they don't have as much pull so this guy they don't have as much pull so this guy gets the gig and the movie I saw the gets the gig and the movie I saw the gets the gig and the movie I saw the tagline you know of the of the preview tagline you know of the of the preview tagline you know of the of the preview and I think it said something like you and I think it said something like you and I think it said something like you know he saved know he saved know he saved 250,000 lives and you see scenes of him 250,000 lives and you see scenes of him 250,000 lives and you see scenes of him with huddled Chinese refugees and he with huddled Chinese refugees and he with huddled Chinese refugees and he hides them from aircraft under a giant hides them from aircraft under a giant hides them from aircraft under a giant swastika flag so there's sort of that swastika flag so there's sort of that swastika flag so there's sort of that that playing with the idea that here you

that playing with the idea that here you that playing with the idea that here you have the evil Nazis and yet there's a have the evil Nazis and yet there's a have the evil Nazis and yet there's a good person mixed in it's a good person mixed in it's a good person mixed in it's a juxtaposition that you can hang a whole juxtaposition that you can hang a whole juxtaposition that you can hang a whole movie theme on I don't know about movie theme on I don't know about movie theme on I don't know about 250,000 lives in terms of the number I 250,000 lives in terms of the number I 250,000 lives in terms of the number I do know that this is 20 or 30 people do know that this is 20 or 30 people do know that this is 20 or 30 people there's women in the group uh doctors there's women in the group uh doctors there's women in the group uh doctors ministers businessmen and they save a ministers businessmen and they save a ministers businessmen and they save a ton of people and it's in large part ton of people and it's in large part ton of people and it's in large part because of the documents that they sent because of the documents that they sent because of the documents that they sent or the information that they kept track or the information that they kept track or the information that they kept track of that we have a lot of these of that we have a lot of these of that we have a lot of these accounts and when I wanted to spend accounts and when I wanted to spend accounts and when I wanted to spend three hours on it I was going to go three hours on it I was going to go three hours on it I was going to go through all of the letters let me through all of the letters let me through all of the letters let me encourage you to get another book if encourage you to get another book if encourage you to get another book if you're interested in this and it's one you're interested in this and it's one you're interested in this and it's one of the few I've ever read that should be of the few I've ever read that should be of the few I've ever read that should be dry as a bone but it's actually in its dry as a bone but it's actually in its dry as a bone but it's actually in its own way terrifying because it's it's own way terrifying because it's it's own way terrifying because it's it's chronological primary source documents chronological primary source documents chronological primary source documents so the cables and the telegrams and the so the cables and the telegrams and the so the cables and the telegrams and the letters and the pleas from these people letters and the pleas from these people letters and the pleas from these people John Rob and all these people who make John Rob and all these people who make John Rob and all these people who make up um the Nan King International safety up um the Nan King International safety up um the Nan King International safety zone folks as it's called and you can zone folks as it's called and you can zone folks as it's called and you can read every day these letters get more read every day these letters get more read every day these letters get more beseeching more terrified more outraged beseeching more terrified more outraged beseeching more terrified more outraged as the situation descends into monstrous Chaos on December 13th the Japanese Chaos on December 13th the Japanese enter Nan enter Nan enter Nan King there's a letter from John Rob King there's a letter from John Rob King there's a letter from John Rob saying thank thank you so much for not saying thank thank you so much for not saying thank thank you so much for not shelling our little International safety shelling our little International safety shelling our little International safety zone that we've created which by the way

zone that we've created which by the way zone that we've created which by the way is nothing more than a part of the city is nothing more than a part of the city is nothing more than a part of the city blocked off and on the sides of the blocked off and on the sides of the blocked off and on the sides of the streets where the border is they put streets where the border is they put streets where the border is they put international Flags I think it was international Flags I think it was international Flags I think it was December 1st that the Nang King mayor December 1st that the Nang King mayor December 1st that the Nang King mayor before fleeing the city tells all the before fleeing the city tells all the before fleeing the city tells all the civilians to run into the safety zone civilians to run into the safety zone civilians to run into the safety zone because they'll be safe there which because they'll be safe there which because they'll be safe there which allows the Japanese to then say that allows the Japanese to then say that allows the Japanese to then say that anybody who's not in the safety zone is anybody who's not in the safety zone is anybody who's not in the safety zone is ipof facto a bad ipof facto a bad ipof facto a bad guy and what begins to happen right away guy and what begins to happen right away guy and what begins to happen right away is the Japanese start searching for is the Japanese start searching for is the Japanese start searching for China soldiers because there's as we China soldiers because there's as we China soldiers because there's as we said a lot of them said a lot of them said a lot of them there another part of the atrocity here there another part of the atrocity here there another part of the atrocity here is if you are a Defender basically of is if you are a Defender basically of is if you are a Defender basically of the Japanese Army in this case do you the Japanese Army in this case do you the Japanese Army in this case do you count the killing of Chinese soldiers as count the killing of Chinese soldiers as count the killing of Chinese soldiers as a war crime right I mean officially a war crime right I mean officially a war crime right I mean officially there's no question but that allows some there's no question but that allows some there's no question but that allows some people to diverge here and say well we people to diverge here and say well we people to diverge here and say well we admit that these people who died Were admit that these people who died Were admit that these people who died Were Soldiers uh but I deny the civilian side Soldiers uh but I deny the civilian side Soldiers uh but I deny the civilian side of this in this case what happens is of this in this case what happens is of this in this case what happens is there's a river it's the yangi that runs there's a river it's the yangi that runs there's a river it's the yangi that runs behind Nan King and if you look at it it behind Nan King and if you look at it it behind Nan King and if you look at it it in order for Chinese troops to get out in order for Chinese troops to get out in order for Chinese troops to get out of nank King and get away from the of nank King and get away from the of nank King and get away from the oncoming Japanese they would have to oncoming Japanese they would have to oncoming Japanese they would have to cross the river sort of go over to the cross the river sort of go over to the cross the river sort of go over to the more Chinese side and keep going more Chinese side and keep going more Chinese side and keep going normally not a problem but of course you normally not a problem but of course you normally not a problem but of course you know they were trying to create a know they were trying to create a know they were trying to create a defensive Zone to thwart the Japanese so defensive Zone to thwart the Japanese so defensive Zone to thwart the Japanese so they've been blowing up the bridges and they've been blowing up the bridges and they've been blowing up the bridges and everything that would allow the Chinese everything that would allow the Chinese everything that would allow the Chinese to get away too and now they have to so to get away too and now they have to so to get away too and now they have to so there are these harrowing stories of there are these harrowing stories of there are these harrowing stories of Chinese troops just at the river bank Chinese troops just at the river bank Chinese troops just at the river bank waiting you know thousands and thousands waiting you know thousands and thousands waiting you know thousands and thousands of people waiting for one little boat of people waiting for one little boat of people waiting for one little boat that could carry three people like a that could carry three people like a that could carry three people like a canoe across the river and the Japanese canoe across the river and the Japanese canoe across the river and the Japanese are on the way and if there's one group are on the way and if there's one group are on the way and if there's one group of people that knows that the Japanese

of people that knows that the Japanese of people that knows that the Japanese are not taking Chinese prisoners it's are not taking Chinese prisoners it's are not taking Chinese prisoners it's Chinese soldiers so this sense of panic Chinese soldiers so this sense of panic Chinese soldiers so this sense of panic is palpable and uh let me turn to some is palpable and uh let me turn to some is palpable and uh let me turn to some of the sources now and I have a wide mix of the sources now and I have a wide mix of the sources now and I have a wide mix of them uh and my apologies as I said of them uh and my apologies as I said of them uh and my apologies as I said I'd like to do three hours and and I'd I'd like to do three hours and and I'd I'd like to do three hours and and I'd like to just read the documents to you like to just read the documents to you like to just read the documents to you because there are several that are like because there are several that are like because there are several that are like police blotter reports where they're police blotter reports where they're police blotter reports where they're trying to tell the jaanese Commander at trying to tell the jaanese Commander at trying to tell the jaanese Commander at this hour this woman was raped over here this hour this woman was raped over here this hour this woman was raped over here and the Japanese soldier spilled her and the Japanese soldier spilled her and the Japanese soldier spilled her sugar I mean it's literally like police sugar I mean it's literally like police sugar I mean it's literally like police reports but it's reports but it's reports but it's it's all I could think of when I was it's all I could think of when I was it's all I could think of when I was reading it is how unusual it was to have reading it is how unusual it was to have reading it is how unusual it was to have something like this and if you could something like this and if you could something like this and if you could have had a similar document it would have had a similar document it would have had a similar document it would apply equally well to the sack of apply equally well to the sack of apply equally well to the sack of Carthage by the Romans you know in Carthage by the Romans you know in Carthage by the Romans you know in ancient times I mean this is a ancient times I mean this is a ancient times I mean this is a modern-day account of something you just modern-day account of something you just modern-day account of something you just don't get a whole lot of but that's don't get a whole lot of but that's don't get a whole lot of but that's happened a lot of times in history seems happened a lot of times in history seems happened a lot of times in history seems woefully out of of place and time woefully out of of place and time woefully out of of place and time though here's the way fujiwara Akira though here's the way fujiwara Akira though here's the way fujiwara Akira contributor to um the Nan King atrocity contributor to um the Nan King atrocity contributor to um the Nan King atrocity complicating the picture said that the complicating the picture said that the complicating the picture said that the attack on Nan King was out of control attack on Nan King was out of control attack on Nan King was out of control from the start with all sorts of units from the start with all sorts of units from the start with all sorts of units that were Glory hungry and wanting to be that were Glory hungry and wanting to be that were Glory hungry and wanting to be the first inside the city and there's a the first inside the city and there's a the first inside the city and there's a sense of outof control troops such as sense of outof control troops such as sense of outof control troops such as the Battle of Crona with that psychology the Battle of Crona with that psychology the Battle of Crona with that psychology going on so here we get another gradient going on so here we get another gradient going on so here we get another gradient in the responsibility spe that we've in the responsibility spe that we've in the responsibility spe that we've been talking about do you blame Japan been talking about do you blame Japan been talking about do you blame Japan for what's about to happen here no it for what's about to happen here no it for what's about to happen here no it was a bunch of out of control troops and was a bunch of out of control troops and was a bunch of out of control troops and in some ways it

was Akira writes about the Japanese was Akira writes about the Japanese units finding out on December 13th that units finding out on December 13th that units finding out on December 13th that the Chinese were retreating and leaving the Chinese were retreating and leaving the Chinese were retreating and leaving and trying to get away and he writes and trying to get away and he writes and trying to get away and he writes quote Japanese units learned of this quote Japanese units learned of this quote Japanese units learned of this Retreat on the morning of the 13th Retreat on the morning of the 13th Retreat on the morning of the 13th skirmishes broke out in many areas as skirmishes broke out in many areas as skirmishes broke out in many areas as small groups of Chinese troops outside small groups of Chinese troops outside small groups of Chinese troops outside the city now lacking a chain of command the city now lacking a chain of command the city now lacking a chain of command desperately tried to slip past advancing desperately tried to slip past advancing desperately tried to slip past advancing Japanese forces then the surrendering Japanese forces then the surrendering Japanese forces then the surrendering began most of the Chinese troops still began most of the Chinese troops still began most of the Chinese troops still inside Nang King rushed to escape Helter inside Nang King rushed to escape Helter inside Nang King rushed to escape Helter Skelter through the Pang gate which led Skelter through the Pang gate which led Skelter through the Pang gate which led to the Shawan Warf area from shakwan to the Shawan Warf area from shakwan to the Shawan Warf area from shakwan they hop to cross the Yang SEI by boat they hop to cross the Yang SEI by boat they hop to cross the Yang SEI by boat by raft or by clinging desperately to by raft or by clinging desperately to by raft or by clinging desperately to scraps of lumber or they madly ran up scraps of lumber or they madly ran up scraps of lumber or they madly ran up and down the riverbank only to encounter and down the riverbank only to encounter and down the riverbank only to encounter Japanese forces sent to cut them off Japanese forces sent to cut them off Japanese forces sent to cut them off huge numbers of Chinese troops became huge numbers of Chinese troops became huge numbers of Chinese troops became prisoners of War on the 13th and 14th at prisoners of War on the 13th and 14th at prisoners of War on the 13th and 14th at shakwan mufan Chang tun gate and the shakwan mufan Chang tun gate and the shakwan mufan Chang tun gate and the shaa gate with no Avenue of Escape shaa gate with no Avenue of Escape shaa gate with no Avenue of Escape Chinese soldiers lost all will to fight Chinese soldiers lost all will to fight Chinese soldiers lost all will to fight despite trying to surrender in droves despite trying to surrender in droves despite trying to surrender in droves most were killed in the pel Mel of most were killed in the pel Mel of most were killed in the pel Mel of battle end battle end battle end quote he then quotes from the Diaries quote he then quotes from the Diaries quote he then quotes from the Diaries from December 13th from December 13th from December 13th 1937 of two Japanese Commanders uh 16th 1937 of two Japanese Commanders uh 16th 1937 of two Japanese Commanders uh 16th division commander and 30th Brigade division commander and 30th Brigade division commander and 30th Brigade Commander these are primary source Commander these are primary source Commander these are primary source documents and um 16th division Commander documents and um 16th division Commander documents and um 16th division Commander Nakajima chago's diary writes quote we

Nakajima chago's diary writes quote we Nakajima chago's diary writes quote we see prisoners everywhere so many that see prisoners everywhere so many that see prisoners everywhere so many that there's no way we can deal with them the there's no way we can deal with them the there's no way we can deal with them the general policy is accept no prisoners so general policy is accept no prisoners so general policy is accept no prisoners so we ended up having to take care of them we ended up having to take care of them we ended up having to take care of them lot Stock and Barrel but they came in lot Stock and Barrel but they came in lot Stock and Barrel but they came in hordes in units of thousands or 5 hordes in units of thousands or 5 hordes in units of thousands or 5 thousands so we couldn't even disarm thousands so we couldn't even disarm thousands so we couldn't even disarm them later I heard that the Sasaki unit them later I heard that the Sasaki unit them later I heard that the Sasaki unit alone disposed of about 1,500 a company alone disposed of about 1,500 a company alone disposed of about 1,500 a company Commander guarding taiping gate took Commander guarding taiping gate took Commander guarding taiping gate took care of another 1300 another 7,000 to care of another 1300 another 7,000 to care of another 1300 another 7,000 to 8,000 clustered at the shinho gate are 8,000 clustered at the shinho gate are 8,000 clustered at the shinho gate are still surrendering we need a really huge still surrendering we need a really huge still surrendering we need a really huge ditch to handle those 7,000 to 8,000 but ditch to handle those 7,000 to 8,000 but ditch to handle those 7,000 to 8,000 but we can't find one so someone suggested we can't find one so someone suggested we can't find one so someone suggested this plan now quoting someone else's this plan now quoting someone else's this plan now quoting someone else's plan divide them up into groups of 100 plan divide them up into groups of 100 plan divide them up into groups of 100 to 200 and then lure them to some to 200 and then lure them to some to 200 and then lure them to some suitable spot for finishing off end suitable spot for finishing off end suitable spot for finishing off end quote 30th Brigade Commander Major quote 30th Brigade Commander Major quote 30th Brigade Commander Major General Sasaki toichi wrote in his diary General Sasaki toichi wrote in his diary General Sasaki toichi wrote in his diary on the 13th of December quote the number on the 13th of December quote the number on the 13th of December quote the number of abandoned enemy bodies in our area of abandoned enemy bodies in our area of abandoned enemy bodies in our area today was 10,000 plus thousands more if today was 10,000 plus thousands more if today was 10,000 plus thousands more if we include those Chinese whose Escape we include those Chinese whose Escape we include those Chinese whose Escape rafts or boats on the yangsi were sunk rafts or boats on the yangsi were sunk rafts or boats on the yangsi were sunk by fire from our Armored Cars Plus PS by fire from our Armored Cars Plus PS by fire from our Armored Cars Plus PS killed by our units our Detachment alone killed by our units our Detachment alone killed by our units our Detachment alone must have taken care of over 20,000 we must have taken care of over 20,000 we must have taken care of over 20,000 we finished the mop up and secured our rear finished the mop up and secured our rear finished the mop up and secured our rear area at about 2 p.m. while grouping we area at about 2 p.m. while grouping we area at about 2 p.m. while grouping we Advanced to the hoping gate later the Advanced to the hoping gate later the Advanced to the hoping gate later the enemy surrendered in the thousands enemy surrendered in the thousands enemy surrendered in the thousands frenzied troops rebuffing efforts by frenzied troops rebuffing efforts by frenzied troops rebuffing efforts by superiors to restrain them finished off superiors to restrain them finished off superiors to restrain them finished off those PS one after another even if they those PS one after another even if they those PS one after another even if they aren't soldiers for example Medics or

aren't soldiers for example Medics or aren't soldiers for example Medics or priests men would yell kill the whole priests men would yell kill the whole priests men would yell kill the whole damn lot after recalling the past 10 damn lot after recalling the past 10 damn lot after recalling the past 10 days of bloody fighting in which so many days of bloody fighting in which so many days of bloody fighting in which so many buddies had shed so much blood end buddies had shed so much blood end buddies had shed so much blood end quote so right there you see another one quote so right there you see another one quote so right there you see another one of those lines that some people take of those lines that some people take of those lines that some people take with which is the superiors tried to with which is the superiors tried to with which is the superiors tried to restrain them but you know their buddies restrain them but you know their buddies restrain them but you know their buddies were killed and they were understandably were killed and they were understandably were killed and they were understandably upset enough to commit upset enough to commit upset enough to commit atrocities there's also a ton of atrocities there's also a ton of atrocities there's also a ton of evidence though that there was a take- evidence though that there was a take- evidence though that there was a take- no prisoners policy historian Herbert P no prisoners policy historian Herbert P no prisoners policy historian Herbert P bicks in his book on heroo his Pulitzer bicks in his book on heroo his Pulitzer bicks in his book on heroo his Pulitzer Prize winning book on heroo writes this Prize winning book on heroo writes this Prize winning book on heroo writes this quote there were no orders to rape in quote there were no orders to rape in quote there were no orders to rape in quotes Nan King nor did Imperial quotes Nan King nor did Imperial quotes Nan King nor did Imperial headquarters ever ordered the total headquarters ever ordered the total headquarters ever ordered the total extermination of the enemy as the extermination of the enemy as the extermination of the enemy as the ultimate goal of the Nang King ultimate goal of the Nang King ultimate goal of the Nang King encirclement campaign standing orders to encirclement campaign standing orders to encirclement campaign standing orders to take no prisoners did exist however and take no prisoners did exist however and take no prisoners did exist however and once Nang King fell Japanese soldiers once Nang King fell Japanese soldiers once Nang King fell Japanese soldiers began to execute and mass military began to execute and mass military began to execute and mass military prisoners of war and unarmed deserters prisoners of war and unarmed deserters prisoners of war and unarmed deserters who had surrendered they also went on an who had surrendered they also went on an who had surrendered they also went on an unprecedented and unplanned Rampage of unprecedented and unplanned Rampage of unprecedented and unplanned Rampage of arson pillage murder and rape the arson pillage murder and rape the arson pillage murder and rape the resulting Slaughter continued in the resulting Slaughter continued in the resulting Slaughter continued in the city and its six adjacent rural Villages city and its six adjacent rural Villages city and its six adjacent rural Villages for 3 months and far exceeded earlier for 3 months and far exceeded earlier for 3 months and far exceeded earlier atrocities committed during the Battle atrocities committed during the Battle atrocities committed during the Battle of Shanghai and along the Escape Routes of Shanghai and along the Escape Routes of Shanghai and along the Escape Routes to Nan King General Nakajima 16th to Nan King General Nakajima 16th to Nan King General Nakajima 16th division in just its first day in the division in just its first day in the division in just its first day in the capital killed approximately 30,000 capital killed approximately 30,000 capital killed approximately 30,000 Chinese prisoners of war and fleeing Chinese prisoners of war and fleeing Chinese prisoners of war and fleeing soldiers end

soldiers end soldiers end quote there are charges that these quote there are charges that these quote there are charges that these orders to kill all prisoners come from orders to kill all prisoners come from orders to kill all prisoners come from the highest up on the scene which by the the highest up on the scene which by the the highest up on the scene which by the 13th I believe is the Emperor hirohito's 13th I believe is the Emperor hirohito's 13th I believe is the Emperor hirohito's uncle there will be an execution or two uncle there will be an execution or two uncle there will be an execution or two after the war uh for what goes on in after the war uh for what goes on in after the war uh for what goes on in this city but trying to figure out who's this city but trying to figure out who's this city but trying to figure out who's responsible for it has been an ongoing responsible for it has been an ongoing responsible for it has been an ongoing part of the debate how high up the food part of the debate how high up the food part of the debate how high up the food chain do you blame this what it really chain do you blame this what it really chain do you blame this what it really seems to be is this combination of two seems to be is this combination of two seems to be is this combination of two things a ordered War crime from you know things a ordered War crime from you know things a ordered War crime from you know Western perspective the killing of Western perspective the killing of Western perspective the killing of surrendering or captured PS because surrendering or captured PS because surrendering or captured PS because after all you go look at the Soviet after all you go look at the Soviet after all you go look at the Soviet Union and the number of prisoners that Union and the number of prisoners that Union and the number of prisoners that fell into German hands after the June fell into German hands after the June fell into German hands after the June 1941 invasion in there and you know they 1941 invasion in there and you know they 1941 invasion in there and you know they would have these giant Kastle schlock would have these giant Kastle schlock would have these giant Kastle schlock these cauldron battles and they'd these cauldron battles and they'd these cauldron battles and they'd capture 250,000 people at a time and you capture 250,000 people at a time and you capture 250,000 people at a time and you have these photographs of huge crowds of have these photographs of huge crowds of have these photographs of huge crowds of people or long columns stretching off people or long columns stretching off people or long columns stretching off into the distance kicking up tons of into the distance kicking up tons of into the distance kicking up tons of dust and them trying to figure out how dust and them trying to figure out how dust and them trying to figure out how do we how do we barbwire these people in do we how do we barbwire these people in do we how do we barbwire these people in a pen and keep them and then how do we a pen and keep them and then how do we a pen and keep them and then how do we feed them you didn't see any of that in feed them you didn't see any of that in feed them you didn't see any of that in this part of the war between China and this part of the war between China and this part of the war between China and Japan because they're not taking Japan because they're not taking Japan because they're not taking prisoners and nobody knows that better prisoners and nobody knows that better prisoners and nobody knows that better than the Chinese troops so this sense of panic that's going on so this sense of panic that's going on in the city I was trying to think of an in the city I was trying to think of an in the city I was trying to think of an analogy it's a little like you know analogy it's a little like you know analogy it's a little like you know getting a 100,000 or more people in a getting a 100,000 or more people in a getting a 100,000 or more people in a soccer stadium and then having somebody soccer stadium and then having somebody soccer stadium and then having somebody tell you over the public address speaker tell you over the public address speaker tell you over the public address speaker that the doors out have been barred and

that the doors out have been barred and that the doors out have been barred and armed gunmen are coming in to kill all armed gunmen are coming in to kill all armed gunmen are coming in to kill all 100 or 150,000 people in the stadium I 100 or 150,000 people in the stadium I 100 or 150,000 people in the stadium I mean what is the mood like then well if mean what is the mood like then well if mean what is the mood like then well if it's panic stricking that would be it's panic stricking that would be it's panic stricking that would be understandable and this is when understandable and this is when understandable and this is when incidents begin happening in the story incidents begin happening in the story incidents begin happening in the story that become a sort of a hinge that become a sort of a hinge that become a sort of a hinge moment if we were talking about moment if we were talking about moment if we were talking about communicable diseases or an epidemic communicable diseases or an epidemic communicable diseases or an epidemic this is when it jumps species from this is when it jumps species from this is when it jumps species from merely affecting the merely affecting the merely affecting the soldiers and now affecting the soldiers and now affecting the soldiers and now affecting the civilians because in their panic and civilians because in their panic and civilians because in their panic and quite understandably so a lot of these quite understandably so a lot of these quite understandably so a lot of these Chinese troops and undetermined number Chinese troops and undetermined number Chinese troops and undetermined number of the these Chinese troops are going to of the these Chinese troops are going to of the these Chinese troops are going to throw off their uniforms and throw their throw off their uniforms and throw their throw off their uniforms and throw their weapons away and dress in any civilian weapons away and dress in any civilian weapons away and dress in any civilian clothing they can clothing they can clothing they can find they may be aided in this by the find they may be aided in this by the find they may be aided in this by the population because after all this is a population because after all this is a population because after all this is a Chinese City and these are Chinese Chinese City and these are Chinese Chinese City and these are Chinese troops but the Japanese start looking troops but the Japanese start looking troops but the Japanese start looking for Chinese troops that have thrown away for Chinese troops that have thrown away for Chinese troops that have thrown away their uniforms and are dressed to their uniforms and are dressed to their uniforms and are dressed to civilians and they start picking people civilians and they start picking people civilians and they start picking people out of crowds many of whom are civilians out of crowds many of whom are civilians out of crowds many of whom are civilians and executing them and executing them and executing them and then you have the part of the story and then you have the part of the story and then you have the part of the story that just takes this to unbelievable that just takes this to unbelievable that just takes this to unbelievable crazy levels which is what starts to crazy levels which is what starts to crazy levels which is what starts to happen to the civilians and this is happen to the civilians and this is happen to the civilians and this is where it looks like Crona because you where it looks like Crona because you where it looks like Crona because you have and it starts if you read the have and it starts if you read the have and it starts if you read the primary source material is it starts on primary source material is it starts on primary source material is it starts on the 13th and you start to get these the 13th and you start to get these the 13th and you start to get these these requests can you please put more

these requests can you please put more these requests can you please put more military police officers out on the military police officers out on the military police officers out on the streets because the soldiers are out of streets because the soldiers are out of streets because the soldiers are out of control the main thing they're out of control the main thing they're out of control the main thing they're out of control with although there's a lot of control with although there's a lot of control with although there's a lot of looting is right looting is right looting is right and it's crazy to read as I said I and it's crazy to read as I said I and it's crazy to read as I said I wanted to do three hours on this and wanted to do three hours on this and wanted to do three hours on this and just go go from one police blotter just go go from one police blotter just go go from one police blotter account to another because it gives you account to another because it gives you account to another because it gives you a real time in a way sense of what's a real time in a way sense of what's a real time in a way sense of what's going on all over the you know Nan King going on all over the you know Nan King going on all over the you know Nan King International safety zone where they International safety zone where they International safety zone where they were getting more than a thousand were getting more than a thousand were getting more than a thousand reports of rapes a night and as one of reports of rapes a night and as one of reports of rapes a night and as one of the humanitarians working there said the the humanitarians working there said the the humanitarians working there said the Japanese have turned the international Japanese have turned the international Japanese have turned the international safety zone into a public house meaning safety zone into a public house meaning safety zone into a public house meaning a wh a wh a wh house and they were often killing the house and they were often killing the house and they were often killing the women that they raped it's it's worth women that they raped it's it's worth women that they raped it's it's worth giving an account from the victims here giving an account from the victims here giving an account from the victims here the Chinese side and in one of the books the Chinese side and in one of the books the Chinese side and in one of the books that I have Nan King 1937 memory and that I have Nan King 1937 memory and that I have Nan King 1937 memory and healing they have a Chinese historian healing they have a Chinese historian healing they have a Chinese historian who's giving what is I I guess it's the who's giving what is I I guess it's the who's giving what is I I guess it's the recognized Chinese view of this thing recognized Chinese view of this thing recognized Chinese view of this thing and he pulls no punches he wants you to and he pulls no punches he wants you to and he pulls no punches he wants you to know how nasty it got and a person who know how nasty it got and a person who know how nasty it got and a person who says there were only 45 people who died says there were only 45 people who died says there were only 45 people who died in this whole incident would call the in this whole incident would call the in this whole incident would call the Chinese a liar or their government a Chinese a liar or their government a Chinese a liar or their government a bunch of people just wanting to hold bunch of people just wanting to hold bunch of people just wanting to hold this over Japan's head but here's what this over Japan's head but here's what this over Japan's head but here's what Chinese historian Chinese historian Chinese historian sanwe says happened in Nan King sanwe says happened in Nan King sanwe says happened in Nan King quote in general the massacre itself can quote in general the massacre itself can quote in general the massacre itself can be divided into two types of killings be divided into two types of killings be divided into two types of killings mass killings and sporadic killing mass killings and sporadic killing mass killings and sporadic killing incidents of mass killing ranged from incidents of mass killing ranged from incidents of mass killing ranged from the murder of 10 to 20 to the slaughter the murder of 10 to 20 to the slaughter the murder of 10 to 20 to the slaughter of tens of thousands of people with the

of tens of thousands of people with the of tens of thousands of people with the greatest number in any one incident greatest number in any one incident greatest number in any one incident reaching more than 50,000 sporadic reaching more than 50,000 sporadic reaching more than 50,000 sporadic killing included varying numbers of killing included varying numbers of killing included varying numbers of three to eight people people among the three to eight people people among the three to eight people people among the mass killings in addition to those who mass killings in addition to those who mass killings in addition to those who died by the sword and firing squad died by the sword and firing squad died by the sword and firing squad others were burned buried alive or others were burned buried alive or others were burned buried alive or drowned several after being soaked with drowned several after being soaked with drowned several after being soaked with gasoline were set on fire by gunshot gasoline were set on fire by gunshot gasoline were set on fire by gunshot causing the wounded person to lie causing the wounded person to lie causing the wounded person to lie covered in Flames rolling and writhing covered in Flames rolling and writhing covered in Flames rolling and writhing on the ground until finally dying a on the ground until finally dying a on the ground until finally dying a miserable death individual sporadic acts miserable death individual sporadic acts miserable death individual sporadic acts of torture and killing included of torture and killing included of torture and killing included splitting gutting slicing piercing alive splitting gutting slicing piercing alive splitting gutting slicing piercing alive and dog biting some were even burned and dog biting some were even burned and dog biting some were even burned with acid and then then left burning all with acid and then then left burning all with acid and then then left burning all over others were tortured to death two over others were tortured to death two over others were tortured to death two Japanese lieutenants amused themselves Japanese lieutenants amused themselves Japanese lieutenants amused themselves by having a killing contest the first by having a killing contest the first by having a killing contest the first one to reach 100 killed won the game one to reach 100 killed won the game one to reach 100 killed won the game then they raised the limit to 150 in then they raised the limit to 150 in then they raised the limit to 150 in addition to killing he writes the Nan addition to killing he writes the Nan addition to killing he writes the Nan King Massacre also involved rape arson King Massacre also involved rape arson King Massacre also involved rape arson theft and other violent crimes the theft and other violent crimes the theft and other violent crimes the Japanese troops who attacked Nan King Japanese troops who attacked Nan King Japanese troops who attacked Nan King raped tens of thousands of Chinese women raped tens of thousands of Chinese women raped tens of thousands of Chinese women many of whom were then murdered end many of whom were then murdered end many of whom were then murdered end quote anytime I find myself thinking quote anytime I find myself thinking quote anytime I find myself thinking that those numbers that the Chinese that those numbers that the Chinese that those numbers that the Chinese historians give are way too historians give are way too historians give are way too large I recall that according to tacitus large I recall that according to tacitus large I recall that according to tacitus the Roman legionaries completely picked the Roman legionaries completely picked the Roman legionaries completely picked Crona clean in 4 days Nan King is going Crona clean in 4 days Nan King is going Crona clean in 4 days Nan King is going to continue for to continue for to continue for months how much evil can you do in a

months how much evil can you do in a months how much evil can you do in a time frame like that and admittedly time frame like that and admittedly time frame like that and admittedly they're not ripping Nan King apart with they're not ripping Nan King apart with they're not ripping Nan King apart with quite the efficiency or rapacity as the quite the efficiency or rapacity as the quite the efficiency or rapacity as the Romans were ripping Crona apart but if Romans were ripping Crona apart but if Romans were ripping Crona apart but if you've got month to do it I imagine it's you've got month to do it I imagine it's you've got month to do it I imagine it's going to be pretty thorough now if you going to be pretty thorough now if you going to be pretty thorough now if you say that we have spent too much time say that we have spent too much time say that we have spent too much time focusing on a single atrocity when we're focusing on a single atrocity when we're focusing on a single atrocity when we're talking about a conflict that's going to talking about a conflict that's going to talking about a conflict that's going to go on to go on to go on to 1945 I would agree with you except that 1945 I would agree with you except that 1945 I would agree with you except that we're not going to spend a lot of time we're not going to spend a lot of time we're not going to spend a lot of time necessarily on all the atrocities necessarily on all the atrocities necessarily on all the atrocities between now and the end of the war that between now and the end of the war that between now and the end of the war that deserve attention what's more you look deserve attention what's more you look deserve attention what's more you look at the raw death totals that the Chinese at the raw death totals that the Chinese at the raw death totals that the Chinese are going to suffer between 1937 and are going to suffer between 1937 and are going to suffer between 1937 and 1945 alone and if you include the 1945 alone and if you include the 1945 alone and if you include the indirect causes of death because of the indirect causes of death because of the indirect causes of death because of the war things like famine and disease your war things like famine and disease your war things like famine and disease your numbers get to the 15 and 20 million numbers get to the 15 and 20 million numbers get to the 15 and 20 million people levels if you want to go just people levels if you want to go just people levels if you want to go just with with with directly caused by violence it gets down directly caused by violence it gets down directly caused by violence it gets down to maybe 12 million in a lot of sources to maybe 12 million in a lot of sources to maybe 12 million in a lot of sources 12 million two-thirds of which by the 12 million two-thirds of which by the 12 million two-thirds of which by the way are way are way are civilian where are their civilian where are their civilian where are their stories most of those people die stories most of those people die stories most of those people die individually or suffer in anonymity or individually or suffer in anonymity or individually or suffer in anonymity or are killed in small out of the way are killed in small out of the way are killed in small out of the way Villages or hamlets who speaks for Villages or hamlets who speaks for Villages or hamlets who speaks for them let's let the relatively and them let's let the relatively and them let's let the relatively and comparatively well attested to situation comparatively well attested to situation comparatively well attested to situation in Nan King allegations if you're a

in Nan King allegations if you're a in Nan King allegations if you're a denier but still well attested to denier but still well attested to denier but still well attested to allegations in the worst case scenario allegations in the worst case scenario allegations in the worst case scenario let's let those speak for all those let's let those speak for all those let's let those speak for all those other people whose stories didn't make other people whose stories didn't make other people whose stories didn't make it into the history it into the history it into the history books the second reason to focus perhaps books the second reason to focus perhaps books the second reason to focus perhaps inordinately on an atrocity like Nan inordinately on an atrocity like Nan inordinately on an atrocity like Nan King is that it's one of a bunch of King is that it's one of a bunch of King is that it's one of a bunch of pre-war atrocities and these will pre-war atrocities and these will pre-war atrocities and these will continue by the way during the conflict continue by the way during the conflict continue by the way during the conflict as well that seem to set up you know as well that seem to set up you know as well that seem to set up you know this era where you have these brutal this era where you have these brutal this era where you have these brutal totalitarian typee armies at least the totalitarian typee armies at least the totalitarian typee armies at least the way the Western liberal democracies look way the Western liberal democracies look way the Western liberal democracies look at these things that seem to be on the at these things that seem to be on the at these things that seem to be on the March and they seem to be the bad guys March and they seem to be the bad guys March and they seem to be the bad guys in the in the in the story now bad guys is an interesting story now bad guys is an interesting story now bad guys is an interesting thing to ponder because in most wars thing to ponder because in most wars thing to ponder because in most wars especially all the recent ones where you especially all the recent ones where you especially all the recent ones where you can get into the newspaper accounts and can get into the newspaper accounts and can get into the newspaper accounts and stuff like that pretty common to portray stuff like that pretty common to portray stuff like that pretty common to portray one's adversary in almost one's adversary in almost one's adversary in almost apocalyptically evil V terms in the apocalyptically evil V terms in the apocalyptically evil V terms in the first world war the Germans were called first world war the Germans were called first world war the Germans were called the Huns because Huns were about the the Huns because Huns were about the the Huns because Huns were about the nastiest thing British propaganda and nastiest thing British propaganda and nastiest thing British propaganda and others could think of in terms of others could think of in terms of others could think of in terms of slapping a label on them and they helped slapping a label on them and they helped slapping a label on them and they helped out all they could on the German side by out all they could on the German side by out all they could on the German side by doing things that have been named the doing things that have been named the doing things that have been named the rape of Belgium and stuff at the time rape of Belgium and stuff at the time rape of Belgium and stuff at the time shocking the Gentile 19th century shocking the Gentile 19th century shocking the Gentile 19th century sensibilities of the

sensibilities of the sensibilities of the age let the records show uh how expon age let the records show uh how expon age let the records show uh how expon itial that can grow in a mere generation itial that can grow in a mere generation itial that can grow in a mere generation because the outrage over the rape of because the outrage over the rape of because the outrage over the rape of Belgium involved about 6,000 people Belgium involved about 6,000 people Belgium involved about 6,000 people killed directly maybe those are the killed directly maybe those are the killed directly maybe those are the modern numbers and we've already talked modern numbers and we've already talked modern numbers and we've already talked about what the numbers are in about what the numbers are in about what the numbers are in China it's worth pointing out that if China it's worth pointing out that if China it's worth pointing out that if you take standard numbers for both world you take standard numbers for both world you take standard numbers for both world wars and compare them look at the wars and compare them look at the wars and compare them look at the difference in the ratio of Civilian to difference in the ratio of Civilian to difference in the ratio of Civilian to military casualties in the first world military casualties in the first world military casualties in the first world war a standard number you get get for war a standard number you get get for war a standard number you get get for soldiers kills about 10 million people soldiers kills about 10 million people soldiers kills about 10 million people about 7 million civilians in that war about 7 million civilians in that war about 7 million civilians in that war it's it's it's estimated in the second world war more estimated in the second world war more estimated in the second world war more like 20 to 25 million military deaths like 20 to 25 million military deaths like 20 to 25 million military deaths and more like 35 to 60 million civilian and more like 35 to 60 million civilian and more like 35 to 60 million civilian deaths so several times more civilian deaths so several times more civilian deaths so several times more civilian deaths in the second world war less deaths in the second world war less deaths in the second world war less civilian deaths in the first and that's civilian deaths in the first and that's civilian deaths in the first and that's the part that by the standards of most the part that by the standards of most the part that by the standards of most war crimes or just individual perception war crimes or just individual perception war crimes or just individual perception makes the second world war so much more makes the second world war so much more makes the second world war so much more atrocious a lot of people are willing to atrocious a lot of people are willing to atrocious a lot of people are willing to forgive all sorts of nastiness if it's forgive all sorts of nastiness if it's forgive all sorts of nastiness if it's done to soldiers women children old done to soldiers women children old done to soldiers women children old people the infirmed the sick the people the infirmed the sick the people the infirmed the sick the non-combatants it's much more harrowing non-combatants it's much more harrowing non-combatants it's much more harrowing and shocking when they're killed and and shocking when they're killed and and shocking when they're killed and here's the problem with the good and here's the problem with the good and here's the problem with the good and evil evil evil narrative do you think that the Japanese

narrative do you think that the Japanese narrative do you think that the Japanese textbooks are teaching their kids that textbooks are teaching their kids that textbooks are teaching their kids that they were on the evil side of this war they were on the evil side of this war they were on the evil side of this war the way the Western Democratic textbooks the way the Western Democratic textbooks the way the Western Democratic textbooks tend to frame the Japanese side of this tend to frame the Japanese side of this tend to frame the Japanese side of this obviously the Germans are soron uh but obviously the Germans are soron uh but obviously the Germans are soron uh but the Japanese are one of the powers that the Japanese are one of the powers that the Japanese are one of the powers that work with soron the haradrim the work with soron the haradrim the work with soron the haradrim the easterners one of those easterners one of those easterners one of those people one of the reasons that countries people one of the reasons that countries people one of the reasons that countries like China have problems with Japan's like China have problems with Japan's like China have problems with Japan's Tex bookus in their minds they're not Tex bookus in their minds they're not Tex bookus in their minds they're not confronting this fact that wait a minute confronting this fact that wait a minute confronting this fact that wait a minute let's acknowledge you were the evil side let's acknowledge you were the evil side let's acknowledge you were the evil side of this war of this war of this war good and evil is a strange thing though good and evil is a strange thing though good and evil is a strange thing though isn't it I had to think about this for a isn't it I had to think about this for a isn't it I had to think about this for a while because who says a particular while because who says a particular while because who says a particular behavior is evil you go talk to Jenis behavior is evil you go talk to Jenis behavior is evil you go talk to Jenis Khan about Good and Evil in the 13th Khan about Good and Evil in the 13th Khan about Good and Evil in the 13th century from the Mongol point of view century from the Mongol point of view century from the Mongol point of view and he may have I'm going to guess he and he may have I'm going to guess he and he may have I'm going to guess he has a different has a different has a different interpretation of what constitutes one interpretation of what constitutes one interpretation of what constitutes one or the other right this is a perception or the other right this is a perception or the other right this is a perception thing if the Nazis had somehow won the thing if the Nazis had somehow won the thing if the Nazis had somehow won the war and we were all having are concepts war and we were all having are concepts war and we were all having are concepts of Good and Evil framed under that of Good and Evil framed under that of Good and Evil framed under that regime how different do conduct for regime how different do conduct for regime how different do conduct for example that the Vermont carried out on example that the Vermont carried out on example that the Vermont carried out on Hitler's orders in the East after they Hitler's orders in the East after they Hitler's orders in the East after they invaded the Soviet Union and it was this invaded the Soviet Union and it was this invaded the Soviet Union and it was this you know no holds bar all laws thrown you know no holds bar all laws thrown you know no holds bar all laws thrown out the window kind of conflict how out the window kind of conflict how out the window kind of conflict how different does that look you think the different does that look you think the different does that look you think the Germans or the Nazis because it might be Germans or the Nazis because it might be Germans or the Nazis because it might be a pan Nordic sort of Empire do you think a pan Nordic sort of Empire do you think a pan Nordic sort of Empire do you think they frame that in Good and Evil terms

they frame that in Good and Evil terms they frame that in Good and Evil terms and if they do and if they do and if they do do you think they're framing their side do you think they're framing their side do you think they're framing their side is evil the perception thing is hard to is evil the perception thing is hard to is evil the perception thing is hard to get past isn't it because from the get past isn't it because from the get past isn't it because from the perspective of someone who grew up in perspective of someone who grew up in perspective of someone who grew up in what the post-war history books always what the post-war history books always what the post-war history books always called the Great liberal democracies the called the Great liberal democracies the called the Great liberal democracies the Western democracies you have Western democracies you have Western democracies you have concentration camps that are being used concentration camps that are being used concentration camps that are being used as genocide Factory assembly lines as genocide Factory assembly lines as genocide Factory assembly lines you've pretty much by our value system you've pretty much by our value system you've pretty much by our value system staked out where you are on the good staked out where you are on the good staked out where you are on the good evil side of the Divide pretty clearly evil side of the Divide pretty clearly evil side of the Divide pretty clearly the Japanese had something that reminds the Japanese had something that reminds the Japanese had something that reminds you of some of the Nazi Medical Science you of some of the Nazi Medical Science you of some of the Nazi Medical Science I put that in parentheses or quotes um I put that in parentheses or quotes um I put that in parentheses or quotes um they had a Unit 731 it was called in they had a Unit 731 it was called in they had a Unit 731 it was called in mansuria in northern China that mansuria in northern China that mansuria in northern China that conducted experiments on humans and had conducted experiments on humans and had conducted experiments on humans and had Viva sections and you know infected Viva sections and you know infected Viva sections and you know infected fleas with Bubonic plague and then fleas with Bubonic plague and then fleas with Bubonic plague and then dropped them by air over Chinese cities dropped them by air over Chinese cities dropped them by air over Chinese cities and recorded the data evil stuff like and recorded the data evil stuff like and recorded the data evil stuff like that from our Western liberal uh that from our Western liberal uh that from our Western liberal uh Enlightenment era based value system Enlightenment era based value system Enlightenment era based value system that's unrepented that's unrepented that's unrepented evil now if you take yourself out of evil now if you take yourself out of evil now if you take yourself out of those shoes though I went and read the those shoes though I went and read the those shoes though I went and read the arguments as anyone should that the arguments as anyone should that the arguments as anyone should that the people who defend other points of view people who defend other points of view people who defend other points of view on this make usually if they don't just on this make usually if they don't just on this make usually if they don't just deny the information outright as the deny the information outright as the deny the information outright as the deniers of the Nang King atrocity or of deniers of the Nang King atrocity or of deniers of the Nang King atrocity or of the Holocaust do they will say yes but the Holocaust do they will say yes but the Holocaust do they will say yes but yes we did these things and people are

yes we did these things and people are yes we did these things and people are terrible but you did terrible things too terrible but you did terrible things too terrible but you did terrible things too things that are often not uh admitted to things that are often not uh admitted to things that are often not uh admitted to or accepted by the liberal Democratic or accepted by the liberal Democratic or accepted by the liberal Democratic post Enlightenment side of this thing post Enlightenment side of this thing post Enlightenment side of this thing for example strategic for example strategic for example strategic bombing you talk to people in Japan or bombing you talk to people in Japan or bombing you talk to people in Japan or in Germany who lived uh the reality of in Germany who lived uh the reality of in Germany who lived uh the reality of their cities being bombed by sometimes their cities being bombed by sometimes their cities being bombed by sometimes hundreds of aircraft sometimes multiple hundreds of aircraft sometimes multiple hundreds of aircraft sometimes multiple times sometimes with atomic bombs and times sometimes with atomic bombs and times sometimes with atomic bombs and they have an interesting perspective Ive they have an interesting perspective Ive they have an interesting perspective Ive on it I'll never forget one of them on it I'll never forget one of them on it I'll never forget one of them saying to me if the same result had been saying to me if the same result had been saying to me if the same result had been achieved the oldfashioned way if you'd achieved the oldfashioned way if you'd achieved the oldfashioned way if you'd come in here and done with bayonets the come in here and done with bayonets the come in here and done with bayonets the functional equivalent of what you did functional equivalent of what you did functional equivalent of what you did with bombs from a distance how does it with bombs from a distance how does it with bombs from a distance how does it look look look then hard to get over the idea it looks then hard to get over the idea it looks then hard to get over the idea it looks a little like Nan King doesn't it here's a little like Nan King doesn't it here's a little like Nan King doesn't it here's the thing if you go to someone on the the thing if you go to someone on the the thing if you go to someone on the British end of things though that were British end of things though that were British end of things though that were on the receiving end of the Blitz the on the receiving end of the Blitz the on the receiving end of the Blitz the lft wafa bombing of London and Britain lft wafa bombing of London and Britain lft wafa bombing of London and Britain instead of saying yes that's how we felt instead of saying yes that's how we felt instead of saying yes that's how we felt too you'll often hear them say you know too you'll often hear them say you know too you'll often hear them say you know tough you started it what you got back tough you started it what you got back tough you started it what you got back was reaping what you was reaping what you was reaping what you sowed and that's an interesting argument sowed and that's an interesting argument sowed and that's an interesting argument and kind of understandable in human and kind of understandable in human and kind of understandable in human terms here's the problem there's always terms here's the problem there's always terms here's the problem there's always been an implication that the people that been an implication that the people that been an implication that the people that are being bombed somehow deserve it and are being bombed somehow deserve it and are being bombed somehow deserve it and I always try to remind myself if my I always try to remind myself if my I always try to remind myself if my country ever got into a war with someone

country ever got into a war with someone country ever got into a war with someone else and I got bombed by them would I else and I got bombed by them would I else and I got bombed by them would I somehow think I deserved it because of somehow think I deserved it because of somehow think I deserved it because of the role I played in supporting my the role I played in supporting my the role I played in supporting my country's policies or supporting my country's policies or supporting my country's policies or supporting my country or would I think that I was just country or would I think that I was just country or would I think that I was just a person caught in the gears of history a person caught in the gears of history a person caught in the gears of history that I had little control over what that I had little control over what that I had little control over what really happened and that there's really really happened and that there's really really happened and that there's really no good excuse for these bombs to fall no good excuse for these bombs to fall no good excuse for these bombs to fall on on on me the other argument you will sometimes me the other argument you will sometimes me the other argument you will sometimes get sometimes from other Asian people get sometimes from other Asian people get sometimes from other Asian people sometimes other Asian people who were sometimes other Asian people who were sometimes other Asian people who were also victims of the Japanese is they also victims of the Japanese is they also victims of the Japanese is they will bring in the question of will bring in the question of will bring in the question of colonialism and they will say something colonialism and they will say something colonialism and they will say something like sure the Western democracies were like sure the Western democracies were like sure the Western democracies were on their good behavior and did on their good behavior and did on their good behavior and did relatively well in terms of controlling relatively well in terms of controlling relatively well in terms of controlling their troops and behaving well their troops and behaving well their troops and behaving well militarily speaking during this militarily speaking during this militarily speaking during this conflict but look at the situation after conflict but look at the situation after conflict but look at the situation after the conflict and more importantly look the conflict and more importantly look the conflict and more importantly look at the situation beforehand with at the situation beforehand with at the situation beforehand with centuries of colonialism add up all that centuries of colonialism add up all that centuries of colonialism add up all that stuff and all those evils and put them stuff and all those evils and put them stuff and all those evils and put them on the balance scale too sure the on the balance scale too sure the on the balance scale too sure the Japanese were terrible but let's not Japanese were terrible but let's not Japanese were terrible but let's not pretend that we're only talking about pretend that we're only talking about pretend that we're only talking about the second world war here when we're the second world war here when we're the second world war here when we're adding up who's been terrible to whom adding up who's been terrible to whom adding up who's been terrible to whom when this is about walking a mile in the when this is about walking a mile in the when this is about walking a mile in the other person's moccasins and it's other person's moccasins and it's other person's moccasins and it's important to consider those important to consider those important to consider those points it is worth pointing out and many points it is worth pointing out and many points it is worth pointing out and many here in the west would that the terrible here in the west would that the terrible here in the west would that the terrible things done as part of the effort to win things done as part of the effort to win things done as part of the effort to win in the second world war comes after

in the second world war comes after in the second world war comes after these sorts of incidents that we're these sorts of incidents that we're these sorts of incidents that we're discussing here and maybe are necessary discussing here and maybe are necessary discussing here and maybe are necessary because of the kind of incidents we're because of the kind of incidents we're because of the kind of incidents we're talking about here that's why we spent talking about here that's why we spent talking about here that's why we spent so much time on this Nan King atrocity so much time on this Nan King atrocity so much time on this Nan King atrocity because it's hardly the only thing going because it's hardly the only thing going because it's hardly the only thing going on this would be an appropriate time to on this would be an appropriate time to on this would be an appropriate time to zoom out of the story here keep one part zoom out of the story here keep one part zoom out of the story here keep one part of your peripheral vision always on of your peripheral vision always on of your peripheral vision always on China though because the Japanese China though because the Japanese China though because the Japanese biggest fear of getting bogged down in biggest fear of getting bogged down in biggest fear of getting bogged down in an endless war in China is going to come an endless war in China is going to come an endless war in China is going to come true we compared it to an addiction true we compared it to an addiction true we compared it to an addiction earlier they're fully addicted they earlier they're fully addicted they earlier they're fully addicted they don't know how to get out and the more don't know how to get out and the more don't know how to get out and the more they conquer the worse their troubles they conquer the worse their troubles they conquer the worse their troubles are when the atomic bombs are dropped at are when the atomic bombs are dropped at are when the atomic bombs are dropped at the end of the war the Japanese are the end of the war the Japanese are the end of the war the Japanese are still bogged down in China I have this still bogged down in China I have this still bogged down in China I have this weird upside down backwards miror image weird upside down backwards miror image weird upside down backwards miror image Funhouse sort of view of the Strategic Funhouse sort of view of the Strategic Funhouse sort of view of the Strategic situation facing the Japanese and China situation facing the Japanese and China situation facing the Japanese and China it's like this weird turnaround of the it's like this weird turnaround of the it's like this weird turnaround of the United States strategic dilemma in the United States strategic dilemma in the United States strategic dilemma in the Vietnam War I mean there you had this Vietnam War I mean there you had this Vietnam War I mean there you had this giant Continental power the US bogged giant Continental power the US bogged giant Continental power the US bogged down and unable to extricate itself with down and unable to extricate itself with down and unable to extricate itself with any sort of Peace terms that it can live any sort of Peace terms that it can live any sort of Peace terms that it can live with in a place what would you say with in a place what would you say with in a place what would you say roughly just you know vaguely the size roughly just you know vaguely the size roughly just you know vaguely the size of something like of something like of something like California the California the California the Japanese in the Chinese version of this Japanese in the Chinese version of this Japanese in the Chinese version of this they're more like the size of California they're more like the size of California they're more like the size of California and they're bogged down in a gorilla war and they're bogged down in a gorilla war and they're bogged down in a gorilla war and not always a gorilla war in a

and not always a gorilla war in a and not always a gorilla war in a continental land mass the size of the US continental land mass the size of the US continental land mass the size of the US the first thing I'm thinking about if the first thing I'm thinking about if the first thing I'm thinking about if I'm in the Japanese leadership is I I'm in the Japanese leadership is I I'm in the Japanese leadership is I don't want any more trouble with anyone don't want any more trouble with anyone don't want any more trouble with anyone else I'm else I'm else I'm busy and the Japanese will continue to busy and the Japanese will continue to busy and the Japanese will continue to conquer city after city after City they conquer city after city after City they conquer city after city after City they will control the railway lines that will control the railway lines that will control the railway lines that connect these Cities the roads that connect these Cities the roads that connect these Cities the roads that connect these cities and the Chinese can connect these cities and the Chinese can connect these cities and the Chinese can just keep moving their Capital as far just keep moving their Capital as far just keep moving their Capital as far away as they need to go to be out of the away as they need to go to be out of the away as they need to go to be out of the Japanese you know range of the bombs Japanese you know range of the bombs Japanese you know range of the bombs although they do fall fall on the although they do fall fall on the although they do fall fall on the Chinese capital from time to time and Chinese capital from time to time and Chinese capital from time to time and the countryside is infested with the countryside is infested with the countryside is infested with nationalist armies communist armies nationalist armies communist armies nationalist armies communist armies guerillas insurgents warlord troops guerillas insurgents warlord troops guerillas insurgents warlord troops Bandits and there will be hundreds of Bandits and there will be hundreds of Bandits and there will be hundreds of thousands usually close to a million thousands usually close to a million thousands usually close to a million Japanese troops some of their best Japanese troops some of their best Japanese troops some of their best forces too all requiring supplies all forces too all requiring supplies all forces too all requiring supplies all the time in this theater for the entire the time in this theater for the entire the time in this theater for the entire War War War now as we said we have to zoom out at now as we said we have to zoom out at now as we said we have to zoom out at this point in the story because events this point in the story because events this point in the story because events elsewhere in the world are going to have elsewhere in the world are going to have elsewhere in the world are going to have more of an effect on what happens in more of an effect on what happens in more of an effect on what happens in this part of the world than anything this part of the world than anything this part of the world than anything that's happening in this part of the that's happening in this part of the that's happening in this part of the world I mean for example as as the world I mean for example as as the world I mean for example as as the Europeans begin to slide toward the Europeans begin to slide toward the Europeans begin to slide toward the second world war the Japanese are second world war the Japanese are second world war the Japanese are watching and as that war breaks out and watching and as that war breaks out and watching and as that war breaks out and gets underway they're paying attention gets underway they're paying attention gets underway they're paying attention to the results and reacting accordingly to the results and reacting accordingly to the results and reacting accordingly in other words like many Powers they're in other words like many Powers they're in other words like many Powers they're trying to read the lay of the land and trying to read the lay of the land and trying to read the lay of the land and as the second world war will break out

as the second world war will break out as the second world war will break out the lay of the land's going to change the lay of the land's going to change the lay of the land's going to change quickly tough to know which horse to bet quickly tough to know which horse to bet quickly tough to know which horse to bet on when things are so on when things are so on when things are so fluid the 1930s as we should point out fluid the 1930s as we should point out fluid the 1930s as we should point out and it is important to understand the and it is important to understand the and it is important to understand the context is a pretty crappy decade for context is a pretty crappy decade for context is a pretty crappy decade for most most most countries it is in the great depths of countries it is in the great depths of countries it is in the great depths of the Great Depression and it is hard to the Great Depression and it is hard to the Great Depression and it is hard to exaggerate what that means I mean people exaggerate what that means I mean people exaggerate what that means I mean people think of economic hard times but it think of economic hard times but it think of economic hard times but it opens the door to all sorts of political opens the door to all sorts of political opens the door to all sorts of political instability and problems um on every instability and problems um on every instability and problems um on every front and so people like Franklin front and so people like Franklin front and so people like Franklin Roosevelt in the United States and Roosevelt in the United States and Roosevelt in the United States and leaders everywhere had their hands full leaders everywhere had their hands full leaders everywhere had their hands full trying to pull out of this economic nose trying to pull out of this economic nose trying to pull out of this economic nose dive nobody was prepared to spend a lot dive nobody was prepared to spend a lot dive nobody was prepared to spend a lot of money or a lot of political capital of money or a lot of political capital of money or a lot of political capital or ask the country to give some great or ask the country to give some great or ask the country to give some great sacrifice for some around the world when sacrifice for some around the world when sacrifice for some around the world when you hardly could handle the problems you hardly could handle the problems you hardly could handle the problems that you know put people in soup lines that you know put people in soup lines that you know put people in soup lines in your in the streets of your major cities 1938 is the key year where things cities 1938 is the key year where things really spiral out of control although really spiral out of control although really spiral out of control although it's not always apparent that that's it's not always apparent that that's it's not always apparent that that's what's happening uh many people have what's happening uh many people have what's happening uh many people have suggested that it would have been very suggested that it would have been very suggested that it would have been very easy to imagine the second world war easy to imagine the second world war easy to imagine the second world war breaking out in 1938 I mean you have a breaking out in 1938 I mean you have a breaking out in 1938 I mean you have a lot of things happening you have the lot of things happening you have the lot of things happening you have the anelos where Germany anex is Austria you anelos where Germany anex is Austria you anelos where Germany anex is Austria you have the huge situation over have the huge situation over have the huge situation over Czechoslovakia and the Sudan lands and Czechoslovakia and the Sudan lands and Czechoslovakia and the Sudan lands and all that stuff uh you have the peace in

all that stuff uh you have the peace in all that stuff uh you have the peace in our time Munich agreement and I should our time Munich agreement and I should our time Munich agreement and I should point out something because it's and point out something because it's and point out something because it's and I'll try not to get on my soap box here I'll try not to get on my soap box here I'll try not to get on my soap box here but it drives me crazy um the Munich but it drives me crazy um the Munich but it drives me crazy um the Munich agreement of course is where the prime agreement of course is where the prime agreement of course is where the prime minister of Britain who had gone to a minister of Britain who had gone to a minister of Britain who had gone to a conference with her Hitler comes back conference with her Hitler comes back conference with her Hitler comes back gets off a plane and I've seen this you gets off a plane and I've seen this you gets off a plane and I've seen this you you can go see it in the museums over in you can go see it in the museums over in you can go see it in the museums over in Britain uh waves this document with his Britain uh waves this document with his Britain uh waves this document with his signature and Hitler's signature on it signature and Hitler's signature on it signature and Hitler's signature on it and declares is basically that this is and declares is basically that this is and declares is basically that this is peace in our time and people peace in our time and people peace in our time and people applaud Chamberlain is a reviled figure applaud Chamberlain is a reviled figure applaud Chamberlain is a reviled figure to most people today he's seen as a weak to most people today he's seen as a weak to most people today he's seen as a weak appeaser that should have confronted appeaser that should have confronted appeaser that should have confronted Hitler I mean there's there's a a Hitler I mean there's there's a a Hitler I mean there's there's a a million things we throw at all these million things we throw at all these million things we throw at all these people these um these weak need pre people these um these weak need pre people these um these weak need pre second world war political second world war political second world war political leaders totally forgetting two major leaders totally forgetting two major leaders totally forgetting two major things and about a thousand minor things things and about a thousand minor things things and about a thousand minor things let's go into the two major things the let's go into the two major things the let's go into the two major things the first one is these people had already first one is these people had already first one is these people had already lived through the worst war that they lived through the worst war that they lived through the worst war that they could ever imagine 20 years ago before could ever imagine 20 years ago before could ever imagine 20 years ago before the first world war nobody really knew the first world war nobody really knew the first world war nobody really knew what they were getting into in the 1930s what they were getting into in the 1930s what they were getting into in the 1930s everybody knows what they're getting everybody knows what they're getting everybody knows what they're getting they're getting the first world war only they're getting the first world war only they're getting the first world war only worse again and to many of these people worse again and to many of these people worse again and to many of these people they thought they saw their civilization they thought they saw their civilization they thought they saw their civilization nearly knocked out in that war if you're nearly knocked out in that war if you're nearly knocked out in that war if you're going to have another one and it's going going to have another one and it's going going to have another one and it's going to be worse and you're starting it from to be worse and you're starting it from to be worse and you're starting it from a the Great Depression levels of a the Great Depression levels of a the Great Depression levels of economic health economic health economic health what's the likelihood you're going to what's the likelihood you're going to what's the likelihood you're going to survive this time what's the proper survive this time what's the proper survive this time what's the proper price to pay to avoid that

outcome now what about the public outcome now what about the public support for any policy like that this is support for any policy like that this is support for any policy like that this is the other thing that is widely forgotten the other thing that is widely forgotten the other thing that is widely forgotten in a place like the United States in a place like the United States in a place like the United States especially people who we lawed for being especially people who we lawed for being especially people who we lawed for being ahead of the power curve on this guys ahead of the power curve on this guys ahead of the power curve on this guys like Winston Churchill who foresee all like Winston Churchill who foresee all like Winston Churchill who foresee all this sort of and and is screaming for this sort of and and is screaming for this sort of and and is screaming for confrontation and and more a more Bellic confrontation and and more a more Bellic confrontation and and more a more Bellic Co policy to ward off all this stuff Co policy to ward off all this stuff Co policy to ward off all this stuff that's that's is rationale right we we that's that's is rationale right we we that's that's is rationale right we we avoid this war if we're tougher now um avoid this war if we're tougher now um avoid this war if we're tougher now um the guy is like in the political the guy is like in the political the guy is like in the political Wilderness in this period and he's Wilderness in this period and he's Wilderness in this period and he's derided by many as a warmonger so he's derided by many as a warmonger so he's derided by many as a warmonger so he's sort of out of steps with the attitude sort of out of steps with the attitude sort of out of steps with the attitude of the of the of the times as we all know this war is going times as we all know this war is going times as we all know this war is going to break out in to break out in to break out in 1939 a month after it breaks out a month 1939 a month after it breaks out a month 1939 a month after it breaks out a month after it breaks out there's a public after it breaks out there's a public after it breaks out there's a public opinion poll of of Americans on the opinion poll of of Americans on the opinion poll of of Americans on the issue of the War uh it's quoted by issue of the War uh it's quoted by issue of the War uh it's quoted by Francis Pike in Hiro's War I think it's Francis Pike in Hiro's War I think it's Francis Pike in Hiro's War I think it's a Gallop poll but I'm not sure uh the a Gallop poll but I'm not sure uh the a Gallop poll but I'm not sure uh the poll taken had 84% of respondents saying poll taken had 84% of respondents saying poll taken had 84% of respondents saying that they wanted Britain and France to that they wanted Britain and France to that they wanted Britain and France to win the war only 2% wanted the Germans win the war only 2% wanted the Germans win the war only 2% wanted the Germans to win but to win but to win but 95% 95% 95% 95% wanted to stay out of the 95% wanted to stay out of the 95% wanted to stay out of the war well first of all this is more war well first of all this is more war well first of all this is more reflective of the America of that time reflective of the America of that time reflective of the America of that time period um much less interventionist period um much less interventionist period um much less interventionist throughout its entire history than now throughout its entire history than now throughout its entire history than now but when you think of those kind of but when you think of those kind of but when you think of those kind of overwhelming numbers in a system where overwhelming numbers in a system where overwhelming numbers in a system where the political leaders are elected what the political leaders are elected what the political leaders are elected what is it responsible to expect them to do

is it responsible to expect them to do is it responsible to expect them to do how many people are going to go against how many people are going to go against how many people are going to go against that kind of super majority what's more that kind of super majority what's more that kind of super majority what's more in a philosophical sense in a system in a philosophical sense in a system in a philosophical sense in a system where the people are supposed to sort of where the people are supposed to sort of where the people are supposed to sort of broadly decide the course of the nation broadly decide the course of the nation broadly decide the course of the nation if 95% of them wants to take a left turn if 95% of them wants to take a left turn if 95% of them wants to take a left turn at the fork in the road where's the at the fork in the road where's the at the fork in the road where's the moral Justice and the political leaders moral Justice and the political leaders moral Justice and the political leaders making a right making a right making a right instead so I think we judge these people instead so I think we judge these people instead so I think we judge these people harshly and assume you know that they harshly and assume you know that they harshly and assume you know that they had more ability to do what we want them had more ability to do what we want them had more ability to do what we want them to do than they did and of course let's to do than they did and of course let's to do than they did and of course let's remember the most important part remember the most important part remember the most important part whenever you do something like the whenever you do something like the whenever you do something like the Monday morning quarterbacking in history Monday morning quarterbacking in history Monday morning quarterbacking in history we know how things turn out they we know how things turn out they we know how things turn out they don't now that having been said famously don't now that having been said famously don't now that having been said famously the Munich agreement falls through the Munich agreement falls through the Munich agreement falls through uh Poland is invaded September 1st 1939 uh Poland is invaded September 1st 1939 uh Poland is invaded September 1st 1939 Poland had been given a guarantee by Poland had been given a guarantee by Poland had been given a guarantee by Britain and France because they'd Britain and France because they'd Britain and France because they'd finally had enough of Hitler's uh I finally had enough of Hitler's uh I finally had enough of Hitler's uh I don't want any more territory don't don't want any more territory don't don't want any more territory don't worry um and when the Nazis refus to worry um and when the Nazis refus to worry um and when the Nazis refus to leave Poland uh after it's demanded of leave Poland uh after it's demanded of leave Poland uh after it's demanded of them the war is on in Europe and the them the war is on in Europe and the them the war is on in Europe and the Japanese are Japanese are Japanese are watching now as we know Poland is watching now as we know Poland is watching now as we know Poland is overrun um overrun um overrun um quickly the post-war propaganda calls it quickly the post-war propaganda calls it quickly the post-war propaganda calls it Blitz what it really looks like is just Blitz what it really looks like is just Blitz what it really looks like is just the first world war tactics and strategy the first world war tactics and strategy the first world war tactics and strategy and philosophy developed over 20 and philosophy developed over 20 and philosophy developed over 20 years then there's this uh period That's years then there's this uh period That's years then there's this uh period That's sometimes called the phony War where sometimes called the phony War where sometimes called the phony War where nothing much is going on and then in nothing much is going on and then in nothing much is going on and then in April 1940 Germany invades Denmark and

April 1940 Germany invades Denmark and April 1940 Germany invades Denmark and Norway and conquers them pretty quickly Norway and conquers them pretty quickly Norway and conquers them pretty quickly and then a month later not even a month and then a month later not even a month and then a month later not even a month later I don't think um you know in May later I don't think um you know in May later I don't think um you know in May 1940 a bunch of things 1940 a bunch of things 1940 a bunch of things happen not necessarily in this order uh happen not necessarily in this order uh happen not necessarily in this order uh Winston Churchill becomes prime minister Winston Churchill becomes prime minister Winston Churchill becomes prime minister of Britain so now we have one of the of Britain so now we have one of the of Britain so now we have one of the major players in this story and sconed major players in this story and sconed major players in this story and sconed in power a decision maker a a famously in power a decision maker a a famously in power a decision maker a a famously pitbull likee in his pitbull likee in his pitbull likee in his bellicosity and yet at the same time bellicosity and yet at the same time bellicosity and yet at the same time seemingly the right man for the job seemingly the right man for the job seemingly the right man for the job because I mean if if Churchill was a bit because I mean if if Churchill was a bit because I mean if if Churchill was a bit of a an antagonist and a and a fighter of a an antagonist and a and a fighter of a an antagonist and a and a fighter that was a little bit embarrassing in that was a little bit embarrassing in that was a little bit embarrassing in more peaceful times he's exactly what more peaceful times he's exactly what more peaceful times he's exactly what you need now that the war is going isn't you need now that the war is going isn't you need now that the war is going isn't he but is also the month where the phony he but is also the month where the phony he but is also the month where the phony war ends on the Western Front the war ends on the Western Front the war ends on the Western Front the Germans blow through a couple of neutral Germans blow through a couple of neutral Germans blow through a couple of neutral countries and then into France now we countries and then into France now we countries and then into France now we should point out another reality during should point out another reality during should point out another reality during the time period That's often forgotten the time period That's often forgotten the time period That's often forgotten Now France is widely considered to be Now France is widely considered to be Now France is widely considered to be the strongest landow in the world at the strongest landow in the world at the strongest landow in the world at this time period many International this time period many International this time period many International calculations are based on this calculations are based on this calculations are based on this assumption this assumption will prove to assumption this assumption will prove to assumption this assumption will prove to be false quickly be false quickly be false quickly France will be defeated in a mere six France will be defeated in a mere six France will be defeated in a mere six weeks to put that in perspective and to weeks to put that in perspective and to weeks to put that in perspective and to understand how incredibly shocking that understand how incredibly shocking that understand how incredibly shocking that is for this time period you're talking is for this time period you're talking is for this time period you're talking about a country here that only 20 years about a country here that only 20 years about a country here that only 20 years previously had spent more than a million

previously had spent more than a million previously had spent more than a million of their soldiers lives holding off of their soldiers lives holding off of their soldiers lives holding off arguably the greatest army of the age arguably the greatest army of the age arguably the greatest army of the age the first world war German Army for more the first world war German Army for more the first world war German Army for more than four years and remember not only is France defeated and remember not only is France defeated here but the Dutch are defeated as part here but the Dutch are defeated as part here but the Dutch are defeated as part of the Germans blowing through this area of the Germans blowing through this area of the Germans blowing through this area and the British look like they're five and the British look like they're five and the British look like they're five minutes away from succumbing as well if minutes away from succumbing as well if minutes away from succumbing as well if you're making calculations based on you're making calculations based on you're making calculations based on world events in Japan all of a sudden world events in Japan all of a sudden world events in Japan all of a sudden all of these valuable areas in your neck all of these valuable areas in your neck all of these valuable areas in your neck of the woods that are controlled by the of the woods that are controlled by the of the woods that are controlled by the Dutch and the French and the British Dutch and the French and the British Dutch and the French and the British don't seem so formidably defended don't seem so formidably defended don't seem so formidably defended anymore and remember if you're Japan you anymore and remember if you're Japan you anymore and remember if you're Japan you might not even be looking at those might not even be looking at those might not even be looking at those places if you could just hold on to places if you could just hold on to places if you could just hold on to China and Conquer it and use its China and Conquer it and use its China and Conquer it and use its resources that's all they need really I resources that's all they need really I resources that's all they need really I mean it wouldn't give you everything you mean it wouldn't give you everything you mean it wouldn't give you everything you wanted but I mean if Japan's looking to wanted but I mean if Japan's looking to wanted but I mean if Japan's looking to be a great power and they think they be a great power and they think they be a great power and they think they have to suck up China to do it have to suck up China to do it have to suck up China to do it everything in their policy is based on everything in their policy is based on everything in their policy is based on being able to maintain that addiction being able to maintain that addiction being able to maintain that addiction they only start looking towards some of they only start looking towards some of they only start looking towards some of these other tempting areas like French these other tempting areas like French these other tempting areas like French Indo China modern day Vietnam Laos and Indo China modern day Vietnam Laos and Indo China modern day Vietnam Laos and Cambodia because some of the more Cambodia because some of the more Cambodia because some of the more obvious Avenues towards supplying your obvious Avenues towards supplying your obvious Avenues towards supplying your War Machine are being squeezed by other War Machine are being squeezed by other War Machine are being squeezed by other powers if you go look at the um economic

powers if you go look at the um economic powers if you go look at the um economic side of the second world war which is a side of the second world war which is a side of the second world war which is a a a very popular way to look at it a a very popular way to look at it a a very popular way to look at it lately and I find it very valuable in lately and I find it very valuable in lately and I find it very valuable in terms of understanding some of the terms of understanding some of the terms of understanding some of the deeper motivations all of the Axis deeper motivations all of the Axis deeper motivations all of the Axis powers were concerned with powers were concerned with powers were concerned with self-sufficiency autarchy is what it's self-sufficiency autarchy is what it's self-sufficiency autarchy is what it's called and this is actually playing into called and this is actually playing into called and this is actually playing into the global trade situation and involves the global trade situation and involves the global trade situation and involves economics in a way that kind of explains economics in a way that kind of explains economics in a way that kind of explains War motivation very well but the reason War motivation very well but the reason War motivation very well but the reason that countries like Germany for example that countries like Germany for example that countries like Germany for example wanted self-sufficiency was in part wanted self-sufficiency was in part wanted self-sufficiency was in part because they had been starved to death because they had been starved to death because they had been starved to death in the first world war when their in the first world war when their in the first world war when their shipping and trade was cut off by the shipping and trade was cut off by the shipping and trade was cut off by the British Navy these countries wanted the British Navy these countries wanted the British Navy these countries wanted the f ability to be relatively immune to f ability to be relatively immune to f ability to be relatively immune to other Count's economic other Count's economic other Count's economic pressure the Japanese wanted to do what pressure the Japanese wanted to do what pressure the Japanese wanted to do what they wanted to do in China and wanted to they wanted to do in China and wanted to they wanted to do in China and wanted to be able to flip the middle finger to be able to flip the middle finger to be able to flip the middle finger to countries that told them to stop countries that told them to stop countries that told them to stop unfortunately in this time period they unfortunately in this time period they unfortunately in this time period they depended on other countries too depended on other countries too depended on other countries too much historian James L mlan writes in a much historian James L mlan writes in a much historian James L mlan writes in a modern history of Japan modern history of Japan modern history of Japan quote to the regret of many Japanese quote to the regret of many Japanese quote to the regret of many Japanese economic planners in the late 1930s economic planners in the late 1930s economic planners in the late 1930s Japan still depended upon the United Japan still depended upon the United Japan still depended upon the United States for nearly onethird of its States for nearly onethird of its States for nearly onethird of its imports from cotton to scrap iron and imports from cotton to scrap iron and imports from cotton to scrap iron and oil and matters seem to be growing worse oil and matters seem to be growing worse oil and matters seem to be growing worse between 1929 and 1932 Japan purchased between 1929 and 1932 Japan purchased between 1929 and 1932 Japan purchased from the United States 36% of its scrap from the United States 36% of its scrap from the United States 36% of its scrap iron used to manufacture steel for iron used to manufacture steel for iron used to manufacture steel for Munitions and ships by 1938 American

Munitions and ships by 1938 American Munitions and ships by 1938 American sources were supplying 74% of Japan's sources were supplying 74% of Japan's sources were supplying 74% of Japan's scrap similarly in 1938 Japan received scrap similarly in 1938 Japan received scrap similarly in 1938 Japan received more than 60% of its imported machine more than 60% of its imported machine more than 60% of its imported machine tools and nearly all sophisticated tools and nearly all sophisticated tools and nearly all sophisticated Alloys such as vadium and malinam from Alloys such as vadium and malinam from Alloys such as vadium and malinam from the United States traditionally the United States traditionally the United States traditionally self-sufficient in Copper Japan in 1939 self-sufficient in Copper Japan in 1939 self-sufficient in Copper Japan in 1939 extracted 990,000 tons of that metal extracted 990,000 tons of that metal extracted 990,000 tons of that metal from its mines but industry was gobbling from its mines but industry was gobbling from its mines but industry was gobbling up so much for detonators and shell up so much for detonators and shell up so much for detonators and shell casings that the nation that year had to casings that the nation that year had to casings that the nation that year had to import 105,000 tons of copper 93% of it import 105,000 tons of copper 93% of it import 105,000 tons of copper 93% of it from the United States the situation for from the United States the situation for from the United States the situation for oil the most critical of all Commodities oil the most critical of all Commodities oil the most critical of all Commodities in the estimation of military planners in the estimation of military planners in the estimation of military planners was extremely desperate Japan relied on was extremely desperate Japan relied on was extremely desperate Japan relied on America for almost 80% of its Fuel and America for almost 80% of its Fuel and America for almost 80% of its Fuel and for special distillates dependence stood for special distillates dependence stood for special distillates dependence stood at more than 90% in the eyes of Economic at more than 90% in the eyes of Economic at more than 90% in the eyes of Economic and military strategists by the summer and military strategists by the summer and military strategists by the summer of 1940 Western colonies in Southeast of 1940 Western colonies in Southeast of 1940 Western colonies in Southeast Asia had come to represent a treasure Asia had come to represent a treasure Asia had come to represent a treasure Trove of raw materials whose possession Trove of raw materials whose possession Trove of raw materials whose possession would allow Japan to Vault into the would allow Japan to Vault into the would allow Japan to Vault into the ranks of the economic halves to recall ranks of the economic halves to recall ranks of the economic halves to recall one of their Prime Ministers phrases one of their Prime Ministers phrases one of their Prime Ministers phrases and thus to free itself from dependence and thus to free itself from dependence and thus to free itself from dependence upon an increasingly hostile west end upon an increasingly hostile west end upon an increasingly hostile west end quote you can see why a concept like quote you can see why a concept like quote you can see why a concept like National self-sufficiency might be National self-sufficiency might be National self-sufficiency might be attractive to someone like the Japanese attractive to someone like the Japanese attractive to someone like the Japanese who are dependent on these outside who are dependent on these outside who are dependent on these outside powers to sell them what they need powers to sell them what they need powers to sell them what they need especially what they need to keep the especially what they need to keep the especially what they need to keep the war machine war machine war machine running so what happens if the people

running so what happens if the people running so what happens if the people who sell you the stuff you need to keep who sell you the stuff you need to keep who sell you the stuff you need to keep them war machine running stop selling them war machine running stop selling them war machine running stop selling you the stuff you you the stuff you you the stuff you need and that becomes kind of the Crux need and that becomes kind of the Crux need and that becomes kind of the Crux of this story I know many of you are as of this story I know many of you are as of this story I know many of you are as fascinated As I Am by how Wars get fascinated As I Am by how Wars get fascinated As I Am by how Wars get started and there is no template I mean started and there is no template I mean started and there is no template I mean they're all different and the variables they're all different and the variables they're all different and the variables are never the same but you can see you are never the same but you can see you are never the same but you can see you know similar patterns in this particular know similar patterns in this particular know similar patterns in this particular case you see the pattern of a sort of case you see the pattern of a sort of case you see the pattern of a sort of inertia developing you saw this in the inertia developing you saw this in the inertia developing you saw this in the first World War II I believe I described first World War II I believe I described first World War II I believe I described it like someone pulling the out of a it like someone pulling the out of a it like someone pulling the out of a hand grenade but you could also think hand grenade but you could also think hand grenade but you could also think about it like a fuse being lit it's when about it like a fuse being lit it's when about it like a fuse being lit it's when events start to move towards collision events start to move towards collision events start to move towards collision and at a certain point it almost becomes and at a certain point it almost becomes and at a certain point it almost becomes easier to run into each other and have a easier to run into each other and have a easier to run into each other and have a conflict than to break out of the conflict than to break out of the conflict than to break out of the pattern and in this case it's going to pattern and in this case it's going to pattern and in this case it's going to be a question of feeding the Japanese be a question of feeding the Japanese be a question of feeding the Japanese war machine that gets this Dynamic war machine that gets this Dynamic war machine that gets this Dynamic going and I was trying to get into all going and I was trying to get into all going and I was trying to get into all the tit fortat things and it got very the tit fortat things and it got very the tit fortat things and it got very complicated because there's so many complicated because there's so many complicated because there's so many players and as we said earlier and it's players and as we said earlier and it's players and as we said earlier and it's important to remember that in the important to remember that in the important to remember that in the Japanese government just like the Japanese government just like the Japanese government just like the Western democracies there is no hive Western democracies there is no hive Western democracies there is no hive mind at work there are lots of different mind at work there are lots of different mind at work there are lots of different ideas over what the best foreign policy ideas over what the best foreign policy ideas over what the best foreign policy directions are to go and different directions are to go and different directions are to go and different factions favoring different things and factions favoring different things and factions favoring different things and based on events some factions are based on events some factions are based on events some factions are exalted and others are in exalted and others are in exalted and others are in Decline so there's no concerted foreign Decline so there's no concerted foreign Decline so there's no concerted foreign policy effort that is without fits and policy effort that is without fits and policy effort that is without fits and starts and a certain level of cha chaos

starts and a certain level of cha chaos starts and a certain level of cha chaos but in the case of the Japanese and we but in the case of the Japanese and we but in the case of the Japanese and we talked about this earlier in the story talked about this earlier in the story talked about this earlier in the story their governmental design is already their governmental design is already their governmental design is already not wonderful in terms of accountability not wonderful in terms of accountability not wonderful in terms of accountability and the lines of command and all these and the lines of command and all these and the lines of command and all these things when we start getting to a a things when we start getting to a a things when we start getting to a a moment where the stress level and the moment where the stress level and the moment where the stress level and the need for efficiency and clear thinking need for efficiency and clear thinking need for efficiency and clear thinking and clear lines of authority become and clear lines of authority become and clear lines of authority become really important this government's going really important this government's going really important this government's going to break down in such a way that if you to break down in such a way that if you to break down in such a way that if you are a Japanese citizen I you have every are a Japanese citizen I you have every are a Japanese citizen I you have every right to accuse them of some kind of right to accuse them of some kind of right to accuse them of some kind of criminal criminal criminal negligence because look where the negligence because look where the negligence because look where the Japanese are you know right around the Japanese are you know right around the Japanese are you know right around the time France Falls where they have a time France Falls where they have a time France Falls where they have a major war and commitment going on in major war and commitment going on in major war and commitment going on in China they're already rationing luxury China they're already rationing luxury China they're already rationing luxury goods and fuel at home the people are goods and fuel at home the people are goods and fuel at home the people are already already already grumbling and then what 18 months later grumbling and then what 18 months later grumbling and then what 18 months later when you add to that burden a war when you add to that burden a war when you add to that burden a war against the United States Great Britain against the United States Great Britain against the United States Great Britain France all their former Colonial France all their former Colonial France all their former Colonial dominions and Commonwealth Nations I dominions and Commonwealth Nations I dominions and Commonwealth Nations I mean how the hell does that mean how the hell does that mean how the hell does that happen well in a broad sense it happens happen well in a broad sense it happens happen well in a broad sense it happens because of a decision to stop the because of a decision to stop the because of a decision to stop the Japanese war Japanese war Japanese war machine if you look at it objectively machine if you look at it objectively machine if you look at it objectively that becomes the issue where there's no that becomes the issue where there's no that becomes the issue where there's no give and this is very controversial give and this is very controversial give and this is very controversial because everybody's argued forever what because everybody's argued forever what because everybody's argued forever what the cause of the Pacific you know war the cause of the Pacific you know war the cause of the Pacific you know war was and who at fault and but if you look was and who at fault and but if you look was and who at fault and but if you look at it it it it becomes pretty simple

at it it it it becomes pretty simple at it it it it becomes pretty simple that the Japanese priorities and the that the Japanese priorities and the that the Japanese priorities and the Americans and British the Americans and British the Americans and British the anglo-americans maybe we can call them anglo-americans maybe we can call them anglo-americans maybe we can call them priorities clash and the priorities have priorities clash and the priorities have priorities clash and the priorities have to do with what it is the Japanese are to do with what it is the Japanese are to do with what it is the Japanese are addicted to addicted to addicted to China the whole reason I liked the China the whole reason I liked the China the whole reason I liked the addiction analogy was because of where addiction analogy was because of where addiction analogy was because of where we're coming to now there's going to be we're coming to now there's going to be we're coming to now there's going to be the global equivalent of an intervention the global equivalent of an intervention the global equivalent of an intervention here and the Japanese are going to be here and the Japanese are going to be here and the Japanese are going to be told that they have to stop you told that they have to stop you told that they have to stop you inflating themselves on the steroids inflating themselves on the steroids inflating themselves on the steroids that are the Chinese resources and land that are the Chinese resources and land that are the Chinese resources and land mass and all that and if they don't stop mass and all that and if they don't stop mass and all that and if they don't stop they're going to get the means to that they're going to get the means to that they're going to get the means to that cut off the means are things like oil cut off the means are things like oil cut off the means are things like oil now worth pointing out because it's now worth pointing out because it's now worth pointing out because it's interesting from a military history interesting from a military history interesting from a military history standpoint the second world war is standpoint the second world war is standpoint the second world war is really the first big war where oil is really the first big war where oil is really the first big war where oil is this super important resource a this super important resource a this super important resource a war-winning or War losing resource at a war-winning or War losing resource at a war-winning or War losing resource at a certain point we all understand most certain point we all understand most certain point we all understand most wars throughout history not all wars of wars throughout history not all wars of wars throughout history not all wars of course but most wars have a component of course but most wars have a component of course but most wars have a component of resource involved some way or another resource involved some way or another resource involved some way or another now what's interesting is over the eras now what's interesting is over the eras now what's interesting is over the eras often the important resource that you often the important resource that you often the important resource that you need to have changes right during the need to have changes right during the need to have changes right during the you know late Bronze Age having the you know late Bronze Age having the you know late Bronze Age having the Monopoly on the making of iron and stuff Monopoly on the making of iron and stuff Monopoly on the making of iron and stuff like that that's a national security like that that's a national security like that that's a national security thing well iron is still important in thing well iron is still important in thing well iron is still important in the 20th century but something that the 20th century but something that the 20th century but something that wasn't all that important at all wasn't all that important at all wasn't all that important at all Petroleum in the Bronze Age is critical Petroleum in the Bronze Age is critical Petroleum in the Bronze Age is critical in this era I mean think about the need in this era I mean think about the need in this era I mean think about the need to have it for your Air Force if nothing to have it for your Air Force if nothing to have it for your Air Force if nothing else but also you know since the first else but also you know since the first else but also you know since the first world war and really before the first

world war and really before the first world war and really before the first world war they started changing over world war they started changing over world war they started changing over from coal to oil for the fuel for all of from coal to oil for the fuel for all of from coal to oil for the fuel for all of their ships all the major Powers well their ships all the major Powers well their ships all the major Powers well gee that creates a dependency you didn't gee that creates a dependency you didn't gee that creates a dependency you didn't have before and countries like Japan have before and countries like Japan have before and countries like Japan which didn't have a lot of oil to begin which didn't have a lot of oil to begin which didn't have a lot of oil to begin with let's just say almost none a little with let's just say almost none a little with let's just say almost none a little in the sacan islands up North but but in the sacan islands up North but but in the sacan islands up North but but almost none are in a bind if the people almost none are in a bind if the people almost none are in a bind if the people you normally buy oil from decide to you normally buy oil from decide to you normally buy oil from decide to squeeze squeeze squeeze you this is an interesting thing to look you this is an interesting thing to look you this is an interesting thing to look at because at because at because I remember as a kid growing up I lived I remember as a kid growing up I lived I remember as a kid growing up I lived through something that if you look in through something that if you look in through something that if you look in your history books now is a known your history books now is a known your history books now is a known historical event with longterm huge historical event with longterm huge historical event with longterm huge ramifications that we still live with ramifications that we still live with ramifications that we still live with today at the time we just called it the today at the time we just called it the today at the time we just called it the oil crisis when I was a kid in oil crisis when I was a kid in oil crisis when I was a kid in 1973 long story short a cartel of oil 1973 long story short a cartel of oil 1973 long story short a cartel of oil producing Nations who wanted to get the producing Nations who wanted to get the producing Nations who wanted to get the United States and friends to change United States and friends to change United States and friends to change their foreign policy priorities as they their foreign policy priorities as they their foreign policy priorities as they related to Israel because there was a related to Israel because there was a related to Israel because there was a war in the Middle East going on decided war in the Middle East going on decided war in the Middle East going on decided to squeeze the United States and Friends to squeeze the United States and Friends to squeeze the United States and Friends oil supply to get the price to rise to oil supply to get the price to rise to oil supply to get the price to rise to sort sort sort of Co might not be a strong enough word of Co might not be a strong enough word of Co might not be a strong enough word Petr blackmail is a word they sometimes Petr blackmail is a word they sometimes Petr blackmail is a word they sometimes use to get the United States to change use to get the United States to change use to get the United States to change its foreign its foreign its foreign policy the attitude that the US policy the attitude that the US policy the attitude that the US government had was completely government had was completely government had was completely understandable and predictable the understandable and predictable the understandable and predictable the attitude they have is no great power is attitude they have is no great power is attitude they have is no great power is going to let anybody dictate what their going to let anybody dictate what their going to let anybody dictate what their foreign policy priority should be and foreign policy priority should be and foreign policy priority should be and there were a few few people in the Nixon there were a few few people in the Nixon there were a few few people in the Nixon Administration that were basically

Administration that were basically Administration that were basically talking about you know listen if you talking about you know listen if you talking about you know listen if you don't sell the oil at a decent price don't sell the oil at a decent price don't sell the oil at a decent price we're going to come and take the oil you we're going to come and take the oil you we're going to come and take the oil you can't monopolize a world resource that can't monopolize a world resource that can't monopolize a world resource that everybody depends on like everybody depends on like everybody depends on like this so you can understand the idea of this so you can understand the idea of this so you can understand the idea of no great power is going to let another no great power is going to let another no great power is going to let another country dictate what its priority should country dictate what its priority should country dictate what its priority should be but during this period in time that's be but during this period in time that's be but during this period in time that's exactly what the anglo-american nations exactly what the anglo-american nations exactly what the anglo-american nations are going to do to the are going to do to the are going to do to the Japanese and in the same way it's hard Japanese and in the same way it's hard Japanese and in the same way it's hard to imagine the United States not in to imagine the United States not in to imagine the United States not in under to the under to the under to the demands of an oil cartel and changing demands of an oil cartel and changing demands of an oil cartel and changing its foreign policy it's hard to imagine its foreign policy it's hard to imagine its foreign policy it's hard to imagine the Japanese publicly with their tail the Japanese publicly with their tail the Japanese publicly with their tail between their legs completely altering between their legs completely altering between their legs completely altering more than a decade's worth of foreign more than a decade's worth of foreign more than a decade's worth of foreign policy and doing what the great power policy and doing what the great power policy and doing what the great power tells them to do otherwise they won't tells them to do otherwise they won't tells them to do otherwise they won't get any oil which they really needed to get any oil which they really needed to get any oil which they really needed to run the war machine in China which they run the war machine in China which they run the war machine in China which they wouldn't be in wouldn't be in wouldn't be in anymore but because it is so obviously anymore but because it is so obviously anymore but because it is so obviously something that might lead directly to something that might lead directly to something that might lead directly to war there has always been one side of war there has always been one side of war there has always been one side of the debate in the United States and the debate in the United States and the debate in the United States and elsewhere about how much what we're elsewhere about how much what we're elsewhere about how much what we're going to talk about now these economic going to talk about now these economic going to talk about now these economic embargos and sanctions and asset freezes embargos and sanctions and asset freezes embargos and sanctions and asset freezes and those kinds of things how much that and those kinds of things how much that and those kinds of things how much that was a nonviolent way to express the was a nonviolent way to express the was a nonviolent way to express the moral outrage of the public at the moral outrage of the public at the moral outrage of the public at the Japanese treatment of the Chinese and Japanese treatment of the Chinese and Japanese treatment of the Chinese and all this kind of stuff versus a shove in all this kind of stuff versus a shove in all this kind of stuff versus a shove in a direction that that the people in the a direction that that the people in the a direction that that the people in the know understood would lead directly to

know understood would lead directly to know understood would lead directly to war that's why we're going to deal with war that's why we're going to deal with war that's why we're going to deal with a couple different sides of the debate a couple different sides of the debate a couple different sides of the debate here because this is not settled here because this is not settled here because this is not settled stuff unless of course you're a very stuff unless of course you're a very stuff unless of course you're a very hard ideologue and believe what you hard ideologue and believe what you hard ideologue and believe what you believe but there are a number of believe but there are a number of believe but there are a number of different ways to look at different ways to look at different ways to look at it there's a place where power politics it there's a place where power politics it there's a place where power politics and moral outrage and moral outrage and moral outrage intersect and power politics you know intersect and power politics you know intersect and power politics you know real politique and moral outrage from a real politique and moral outrage from a real politique and moral outrage from a country like the United States or Great country like the United States or Great country like the United States or Great Britain or any of these Western Britain or any of these Western Britain or any of these Western democracies these things are usually at democracies these things are usually at democracies these things are usually at odds with each other I mean a lot of odds with each other I mean a lot of odds with each other I mean a lot of times you had people like National times you had people like National times you had people like National Security adviser Henry Kissinger who was Security adviser Henry Kissinger who was Security adviser Henry Kissinger who was Nixon's National Security adviser Nixon's National Security adviser Nixon's National Security adviser lamented the idea that he should be lamented the idea that he should be lamented the idea that he should be constrained by the public sort of weepy constrained by the public sort of weepy constrained by the public sort of weepy attitudes towards nation states when attitudes towards nation states when attitudes towards nation states when he's trying to you know create treaties he's trying to you know create treaties he's trying to you know create treaties that keep nuclear war from breaking out that keep nuclear war from breaking out that keep nuclear war from breaking out let's keep our eyes on the prize here let's keep our eyes on the prize here let's keep our eyes on the prize here you know Nations have interests right you know Nations have interests right you know Nations have interests right and yet it's at the same time how do you and yet it's at the same time how do you and yet it's at the same time how do you expect a public who's reading all this expect a public who's reading all this expect a public who's reading all this terrible stuff coming out of the War in terrible stuff coming out of the War in terrible stuff coming out of the War in China and babies being bombed and you China and babies being bombed and you China and babies being bombed and you know people being beheaded and rapes of know people being beheaded and rapes of know people being beheaded and rapes of cities about to happen any minute now in cities about to happen any minute now in cities about to happen any minute now in the story um how do you tell that public the story um how do you tell that public the story um how do you tell that public that they should just sit idly by and do that they should just sit idly by and do that they should just sit idly by and do nothing what's more what if your country nothing what's more what if your country nothing what's more what if your country is providing the means necessary for is providing the means necessary for is providing the means necessary for these events to even take place well these events to even take place well these events to even take place well it's certainly understandable that it's certainly understandable that it's certainly understandable that people might react in in fact you might people might react in in fact you might people might react in in fact you might worry about a country's population that

worry about a country's population that worry about a country's population that didn't in this case with a nation so didn't in this case with a nation so didn't in this case with a nation so against going to war what are the against going to war what are the against going to war what are the options that a president has in a options that a president has in a options that a president has in a situation like this right well this situation like this right well this situation like this right well this begins to become clear in October 1937 begins to become clear in October 1937 begins to become clear in October 1937 in a famous speech that the president of in a famous speech that the president of in a famous speech that the president of the United States Franklin delanor the United States Franklin delanor the United States Franklin delanor Roosevelt gives this is about a month or Roosevelt gives this is about a month or Roosevelt gives this is about a month or two before the Nang king massacre two before the Nang king massacre two before the Nang king massacre happened happens but it's on the horizon happened happens but it's on the horizon happened happens but it's on the horizon you the Battle of Shanghai all that's you the Battle of Shanghai all that's you the Battle of Shanghai all that's happened and Roosevelt gives this speech happened and Roosevelt gives this speech happened and Roosevelt gives this speech where he talks about aggressor where he talks about aggressor where he talks about aggressor Nations and he talks about their conduct Nations and he talks about their conduct Nations and he talks about their conduct being like a contagion like a disease being like a contagion like a disease being like a contagion like a disease that will spread and he Compares it to that will spread and he Compares it to that will spread and he Compares it to what you do when people have diseases what you do when people have diseases what you do when people have diseases you quarantine them right and he's you quarantine them right and he's you quarantine them right and he's suggesting that that's what should be suggesting that that's what should be suggesting that that's what should be done to these aggressor States here's a done to these aggressor States here's a done to these aggressor States here's a sample of the 1937 quarantine speech by sample of the 1937 quarantine speech by sample of the 1937 quarantine speech by president Franklin Del Roosevelt it president Franklin Del Roosevelt it president Franklin Del Roosevelt it seems to be unfortunately true that the seems to be unfortunately true that the seems to be unfortunately true that the epidemic of world lawlessness is epidemic of world lawlessness is epidemic of world lawlessness is spreading and Mark this well when an spreading and Mark this well when an spreading and Mark this well when an epidemic of physical disease starts to epidemic of physical disease starts to epidemic of physical disease starts to spread the community approves and joins spread the community approves and joins spread the community approves and joins in a in a in a quarantine of the patients in order to quarantine of the patients in order to quarantine of the patients in order to protect the health of the the community protect the health of the the community protect the health of the the community against the spread of the

disease it is my disease it is my determination to pursue a policy of determination to pursue a policy of determination to pursue a policy of Peace it is my determination to adopt Peace it is my determination to adopt Peace it is my determination to adopt every practicable measure to avoid every practicable measure to avoid every practicable measure to avoid involvement in war involvement in war involvement in war [Applause] [Applause] [Applause] it ought to be it ought to be it ought to be inconceivable that in this modern era inconceivable that in this modern era inconceivable that in this modern era and in the face of and in the face of and in the face of experience Any Nation could be so experience Any Nation could be so experience Any Nation could be so foolish and ruthless as to run the risk foolish and ruthless as to run the risk foolish and ruthless as to run the risk of plunging the whole world into war by of plunging the whole world into war by of plunging the whole world into war by invading and violating in contravention invading and violating in contravention invading and violating in contravention of solemn treaties the territory of of solemn treaties the territory of of solemn treaties the territory of other nations that have done them no other nations that have done them no other nations that have done them no real harm and which are too weak to real harm and which are too weak to real harm and which are too weak to protect themselves protect themselves protect themselves adequately yet the Peace of the world adequately yet the Peace of the world adequately yet the Peace of the world and the welfare and security of every and the welfare and security of every and the welfare and security of every nation including our own is today being nation including our own is today being nation including our own is today being threatened by that very thing now if threatened by that very thing now if threatened by that very thing now if this seems like a rather weak speech in this seems like a rather weak speech in this seems like a rather weak speech in terms of specifics and whatnot you terms of specifics and whatnot you terms of specifics and whatnot you wouldn't be the only person that said so wouldn't be the only person that said so wouldn't be the only person that said so I mean Francis Pike seems to indicate I mean Francis Pike seems to indicate I mean Francis Pike seems to indicate that Roosevelt kind of weak on all all that Roosevelt kind of weak on all all that Roosevelt kind of weak on all all this stuff for a while and he said that this stuff for a while and he said that this stuff for a while and he said that this speech was just you know Roosevelt this speech was just you know Roosevelt this speech was just you know Roosevelt sort of testing the waters but we gave sort of testing the waters but we gave sort of testing the waters but we gave some polling information earlier that some polling information earlier that some polling information earlier that gives you an idea about the attitude of gives you an idea about the attitude of gives you an idea about the attitude of the American electorate during this time the American electorate during this time the American electorate during this time period if the president of the United

period if the president of the United period if the president of the United States thinks that there's a very States thinks that there's a very States thinks that there's a very important direction that the country important direction that the country important direction that the country needs to go but the country doesn't want needs to go but the country doesn't want needs to go but the country doesn't want to go there what should the president of to go there what should the president of to go there what should the president of the United States the United States the United States do it's worth examining this Enigma that do it's worth examining this Enigma that do it's worth examining this Enigma that is President Franklin delanor Roosevelt is President Franklin delanor Roosevelt is President Franklin delanor Roosevelt for a minute because he's a key part of for a minute because he's a key part of for a minute because he's a key part of this story um he's unlike any other US this story um he's unlike any other US this story um he's unlike any other US president in history he was elected to president in history he was elected to president in history he was elected to twice as many terms as any other twice as many terms as any other twice as many terms as any other president in US history and they changed president in US history and they changed president in US history and they changed the Constitution after he left the scene the Constitution after he left the scene the Constitution after he left the scene so that that would never happen again so that that would never happen again so that that would never happen again but it gave him an unparalleled amount but it gave him an unparalleled amount but it gave him an unparalleled amount of actual practical hands-on experience of actual practical hands-on experience of actual practical hands-on experience with the levers of government with the levers of government with the levers of government nobody ever moved them any better than nobody ever moved them any better than nobody ever moved them any better than Franklin Roosevelt Franklin Roosevelt Franklin Roosevelt did Roosevelt and did Roosevelt and did Roosevelt and unusually hard to figure out US unusually hard to figure out US unusually hard to figure out US president you would think a guy that was president you would think a guy that was president you would think a guy that was on the scene as long as he was would on the scene as long as he was would on the scene as long as he was would have all sorts of information attached have all sorts of information attached have all sorts of information attached to you know his feelings about things to you know his feelings about things to you know his feelings about things but he died in office early into the but he died in office early into the but he died in office early into the fourth term by the way which meant we fourth term by the way which meant we fourth term by the way which meant we didn't get the normal run of didn't get the normal run of didn't get the normal run of presidential Memoirs and all that stuff presidential Memoirs and all that stuff presidential Memoirs and all that stuff afterwards because even if it's a Haack afterwards because even if it's a Haack afterwards because even if it's a Haack of lies or self- serving justifications of lies or self- serving justifications of lies or self- serving justifications historians have a way of using that to historians have a way of using that to historians have a way of using that to really flesh things out and compare them really flesh things out and compare them really flesh things out and compare them to other events and whatnot triangulate to other events and whatnot triangulate to other events and whatnot triangulate but you don't even get that from but you don't even get that from but you don't even get that from Roosevelt and he was a hardto read guy Roosevelt and he was a hardto read guy Roosevelt and he was a hardto read guy anyway almost by in his very

anyway almost by in his very anyway almost by in his very nature he still nature he still nature he still elicits extremely strong emotions in elicits extremely strong emotions in elicits extremely strong emotions in many directions I mean at the time there many directions I mean at the time there many directions I mean at the time there was a euphemism for him that people who was a euphemism for him that people who was a euphemism for him that people who hated his guts used us they wouldn't hated his guts used us they wouldn't hated his guts used us they wouldn't mention his name they'd call him that mention his name they'd call him that mention his name they'd call him that man in the White man in the White man in the White House conservative Americans often saw House conservative Americans often saw House conservative Americans often saw Roosevelt as damn near Roosevelt as damn near Roosevelt as damn near socialist a man who exploded the size of socialist a man who exploded the size of socialist a man who exploded the size of the American government put it in all the American government put it in all the American government put it in all sorts of areas where it had never stuck sorts of areas where it had never stuck sorts of areas where it had never stuck its nose in its nose in its nose in before transferred money from the before transferred money from the before transferred money from the wealthier classes to the poorer classes wealthier classes to the poorer classes wealthier classes to the poorer classes set up all kinds of agencies appeared to set up all kinds of agencies appeared to set up all kinds of agencies appeared to be doing all kinds of things spending be doing all kinds of things spending be doing all kinds of things spending all kinds of money but were there really all kinds of money but were there really all kinds of money but were there really any results changing America fundamentally there is a before Franklin fundamentally there is a before Franklin Roosevelt and after Franklin Roosevelt Roosevelt and after Franklin Roosevelt Roosevelt and after Franklin Roosevelt America he's arguably the most America he's arguably the most America he's arguably the most transformative president that's ever transformative president that's ever transformative president that's ever been Again part of it being how long he been Again part of it being how long he been Again part of it being how long he served but also because when you serve served but also because when you serve served but also because when you serve during such major events as the Great during such major events as the Great during such major events as the Great Depression followed by the second world Depression followed by the second world Depression followed by the second world war you're going to be around when all war you're going to be around when all war you're going to be around when all kind kinds of things are transformed and kind kinds of things are transformed and kind kinds of things are transformed and you're going to be trying to ride the you're going to be trying to ride the you're going to be trying to ride the storm you know as the captain of maybe storm you know as the captain of maybe storm you know as the captain of maybe maybe the most powerful ship in the maybe the most powerful ship in the maybe the most powerful ship in the world to a lot of Americans liberals world to a lot of Americans liberals world to a lot of Americans liberals certainly but a lot of poor destitute certainly but a lot of poor destitute certainly but a lot of poor destitute Americans in the Great Depression Americans in the Great Depression Americans in the Great Depression Roosevelt was a hero if he wasn't

Roosevelt was a hero if he wasn't Roosevelt was a hero if he wasn't achieving things it wasn't for lack of achieving things it wasn't for lack of achieving things it wasn't for lack of trying he was literally doing you know trying he was literally doing you know trying he was literally doing you know programs where people did all kinds of programs where people did all kinds of programs where people did all kinds of things that weren't even necessary and things that weren't even necessary and things that weren't even necessary and the government would hand them out a the government would hand them out a the government would hand them out a paycheck although they also did a ton of paycheck although they also did a ton of paycheck although they also did a ton of things that we still benefit from today things that we still benefit from today things that we still benefit from today all kinds of you know conservation cores all kinds of you know conservation cores all kinds of you know conservation cores and all these things that would put and all these things that would put and all these things that would put people to work simply to put them to people to work simply to put them to people to work simply to put them to work try to prime the pump of the work try to prime the pump of the work try to prime the pump of the American economic engine and get things American economic engine and get things American economic engine and get things going again there were a lot of going again there were a lot of going again there were a lot of Americans who had food on the table Americans who had food on the table Americans who had food on the table because of Franklin Roosevelt that'll because of Franklin Roosevelt that'll because of Franklin Roosevelt that'll make you pretty popular might even get make you pretty popular might even get make you pretty popular might even get you elected four you elected four you elected four times the Defenders would argue that if times the Defenders would argue that if times the Defenders would argue that if Roosevelt put in a lot of programs that Roosevelt put in a lot of programs that Roosevelt put in a lot of programs that conservatives thought of as socialist conservatives thought of as socialist conservatives thought of as socialist things like Social Security by the way things like Social Security by the way things like Social Security by the way or a Roosevelt New Deal or a Roosevelt New Deal or a Roosevelt New Deal program he was up against competition program he was up against competition program he was up against competition from other forms of government like from other forms of government like from other forms of government like bolshevism and fascism that took over in bolshevism and fascism that took over in bolshevism and fascism that took over in countries where political instability countries where political instability countries where political instability had taken hold due to horrible economic had taken hold due to horrible economic had taken hold due to horrible economic situations in situations in situations in part Defenders would argue that part Defenders would argue that part Defenders would argue that Roosevelt managed to steer the United Roosevelt managed to steer the United Roosevelt managed to steer the United States away from either one of those States away from either one of those States away from either one of those extremes and as one of my professors put extremes and as one of my professors put extremes and as one of my professors put it gave the country a little socialism it gave the country a little socialism it gave the country a little socialism to avoid having them demand a to avoid having them demand a to avoid having them demand a lot views on Roosevelt run the lot views on Roosevelt run the lot views on Roosevelt run the gamut Francis Pike in his book about the gamut Francis Pike in his book about the gamut Francis Pike in his book about the Pacific War hitto's war talks about

Pacific War hitto's war talks about Pacific War hitto's war talks about Roosevelt and points out that the guy is Roosevelt and points out that the guy is Roosevelt and points out that the guy is a hard man to figure out he writes a hard man to figure out he writes a hard man to figure out he writes quote at the best of times Franklin quote at the best of times Franklin quote at the best of times Franklin delanor Roosevelt was a difficult man to delanor Roosevelt was a difficult man to delanor Roosevelt was a difficult man to read Henry Wallace his former vice read Henry Wallace his former vice read Henry Wallace his former vice president said of him now Wallace president said of him now Wallace president said of him now Wallace speaking he doesn't know any man and no speaking he doesn't know any man and no speaking he doesn't know any man and no man knows him even his own family man knows him even his own family man knows him even his own family doesn't know anything about him now doesn't know anything about him now doesn't know anything about him now quoting Roosevelt I am like a cat he quoting Roosevelt I am like a cat he quoting Roosevelt I am like a cat he said about himself I make a stroke and said about himself I make a stroke and said about himself I make a stroke and then I then I then I relax Pike says quote loved and relax Pike says quote loved and relax Pike says quote loved and respected as a leader seemingly happiest respected as a leader seemingly happiest respected as a leader seemingly happiest in the company of women he was was an in the company of women he was was an in the company of women he was was an enigma detached enigmatic and ruthless enigma detached enigmatic and ruthless enigma detached enigmatic and ruthless while flying over Cairo Roosevelt while flying over Cairo Roosevelt while flying over Cairo Roosevelt glanced out the window and said ah my glanced out the window and said ah my glanced out the window and said ah my friend the Sphinx end friend the Sphinx end friend the Sphinx end quote former time editorinchief Hedley quote former time editorinchief Hedley quote former time editorinchief Hedley Donovan who had met like seven Donovan who had met like seven Donovan who had met like seven presidents personally knew Roosevelt presidents personally knew Roosevelt presidents personally knew Roosevelt Roosevelt was the first of the Roosevelt was the first of the Roosevelt was the first of the presidents that he knew and he then presidents that he knew and he then presidents that he knew and he then wrote a book about all these presidents wrote a book about all these presidents wrote a book about all these presidents and in it um he said about Roosevelt and in it um he said about Roosevelt and in it um he said about Roosevelt quote FDR could brilliantly quote FDR could brilliantly quote FDR could brilliantly oversimplify his best remembered single oversimplify his best remembered single oversimplify his best remembered single statement the only thing we have to fear statement the only thing we have to fear statement the only thing we have to fear is fear itself is patently absurd and is fear itself is patently absurd and is fear itself is patently absurd and was probably excellent tonic for a was probably excellent tonic for a was probably excellent tonic for a country whose banking system had country whose banking system had country whose banking system had collapsed but in the early and middle collapsed but in the early and middle collapsed but in the early and middle stages of decisionmaking before it was stages of decisionmaking before it was stages of decisionmaking before it was time to simplify and oversimplify time to simplify and oversimplify time to simplify and oversimplify Roosevelt could be impenetrable Rexford

Roosevelt could be impenetrable Rexford Roosevelt could be impenetrable Rexford tugwell one of the early New Deal brain tugwell one of the early New Deal brain tugwell one of the early New Deal brain trusters wrote now quoting tugwell no trusters wrote now quoting tugwell no trusters wrote now quoting tugwell no one could tell what he was thinking to one could tell what he was thinking to one could tell what he was thinking to say nothing of what he was feeling say nothing of what he was feeling say nothing of what he was feeling Donovan continues he clearly relished Donovan continues he clearly relished Donovan continues he clearly relished being hard to figure out he liked being hard to figure out he liked being hard to figure out he liked secrets and had a few he was often secrets and had a few he was often secrets and had a few he was often devious for good reason but could also devious for good reason but could also devious for good reason but could also be devious just for the fun of it be devious just for the fun of it be devious just for the fun of it general Douglas MacArthur who despised general Douglas MacArthur who despised general Douglas MacArthur who despised him said Roosevelt quoting MacArthur now him said Roosevelt quoting MacArthur now him said Roosevelt quoting MacArthur now would never tell the truth when a lie would never tell the truth when a lie would never tell the truth when a lie would serve him just as well Donovan would serve him just as well Donovan would serve him just as well Donovan continues quote this was considerable continues quote this was considerable continues quote this was considerable slander but FDR unquestionably did enjoy slander but FDR unquestionably did enjoy slander but FDR unquestionably did enjoy manipulation and maneuver for their own manipulation and maneuver for their own manipulation and maneuver for their own sake all part of the great game of sake all part of the great game of sake all part of the great game of politics and power but then he says he politics and power but then he says he politics and power but then he says he was also a man of deep convictions and was also a man of deep convictions and was also a man of deep convictions and dedication and unquenchable idealism he dedication and unquenchable idealism he dedication and unquenchable idealism he was firm and Serene in his religious was firm and Serene in his religious was firm and Serene in his religious faith and had a decent sense of privacy faith and had a decent sense of privacy faith and had a decent sense of privacy about it it is impossible to imagine him about it it is impossible to imagine him about it it is impossible to imagine him at a congressional prayer breakfast he at a congressional prayer breakfast he at a congressional prayer breakfast he was impatient with the abstract or was impatient with the abstract or was impatient with the abstract or theoretical in no sense profound but theoretical in no sense profound but theoretical in no sense profound but spacious in vision for America and spacious in vision for America and spacious in vision for America and ultimately all the nations he believed ultimately all the nations he believed ultimately all the nations he believed if not in the perfectability of man in a if not in the perfectability of man in a if not in the perfectability of man in a rather spectacular Improvement in man's rather spectacular Improvement in man's rather spectacular Improvement in man's behavior behavior behavior worldwide end quote this impenetrability worldwide end quote this impenetrability worldwide end quote this impenetrability of Roosevelts though has kind of worked of Roosevelts though has kind of worked of Roosevelts though has kind of worked against him in terms of his place in against him in terms of his place in against him in terms of his place in history because it leaves a lot of room

history because it leaves a lot of room history because it leaves a lot of room for people to speculate about his for people to speculate about his for people to speculate about his motives and often times it wrapped up motives and often times it wrapped up motives and often times it wrapped up with people's politics ideologies World with people's politics ideologies World with people's politics ideologies World Views and even conspiracy Views and even conspiracy Views and even conspiracy theories Roosevelt's everything from a theories Roosevelt's everything from a theories Roosevelt's everything from a well-meaning well-meaning well-meaning moral Crusader desperately trying to moral Crusader desperately trying to moral Crusader desperately trying to avoid war with Japan while still getting avoid war with Japan while still getting avoid war with Japan while still getting them to change their evil them to change their evil them to change their evil ways to on the very far side of the ways to on the very far side of the ways to on the very far side of the other spectrum of in conspiracy land other spectrum of in conspiracy land other spectrum of in conspiracy land Roosevelt is a man who Engineers this Roosevelt is a man who Engineers this Roosevelt is a man who Engineers this War years in advance War years in advance War years in advance organizes it pushes the Japanese into it organizes it pushes the Japanese into it organizes it pushes the Japanese into it knows about it in advance and then knows about it in advance and then knows about it in advance and then luckily orders the carriers out of Pearl luckily orders the carriers out of Pearl luckily orders the carriers out of Pearl Harbor just in time so they don't get Harbor just in time so they don't get Harbor just in time so they don't get hurt CU he's also aware that carriers hurt CU he's also aware that carriers hurt CU he's also aware that carriers are going to be you know the new are going to be you know the new are going to be you know the new battleships in the Modern Age which of battleships in the Modern Age which of battleships in the Modern Age which of course you know nobody quite knew yet course you know nobody quite knew yet course you know nobody quite knew yet but nonetheless runs the gamut so who is but nonetheless runs the gamut so who is but nonetheless runs the gamut so who is this Franklin Roosevelt guy right sneaky this Franklin Roosevelt guy right sneaky this Franklin Roosevelt guy right sneaky conniving but let's remember he was conniving but let's remember he was conniving but let's remember he was elected originally way back in elected originally way back in elected originally way back in 1932 to deal with the 1932 to deal with the 1932 to deal with the depression the things he did to deal depression the things he did to deal depression the things he did to deal with the depression were really with the depression were really with the depression were really effective at the time at least in making effective at the time at least in making effective at the time at least in making people feel like somebody was finally people feel like somebody was finally people feel like somebody was finally doing something he left behind a lot of doing something he left behind a lot of doing something he left behind a lot of legacies that people in the United legacies that people in the United legacies that people in the United States argue over everything from you States argue over everything from you States argue over everything from you know a bunch of different government know a bunch of different government know a bunch of different government departments to things like Social

departments to things like Social departments to things like Social Security Roosevelt looks to me like one Security Roosevelt looks to me like one Security Roosevelt looks to me like one of those people who has the reality of those people who has the reality of those people who has the reality Distortion field ability that was Distortion field ability that was Distortion field ability that was something Steve Jobs was supposed to something Steve Jobs was supposed to something Steve Jobs was supposed to have too have too have too supposedly a guy like jobs or maybe supposedly a guy like jobs or maybe supposedly a guy like jobs or maybe Roosevelt could convince you that a job Roosevelt could convince you that a job Roosevelt could convince you that a job that was really hard to imagine anybody that was really hard to imagine anybody that was really hard to imagine anybody doing anything about was totally doing anything about was totally doing anything about was totally possible and we're on the way maybe Elon possible and we're on the way maybe Elon possible and we're on the way maybe Elon Musk has that ability Musk has that ability Musk has that ability too but uh I read that Andy herzfeld was too but uh I read that Andy herzfeld was too but uh I read that Andy herzfeld was the one who said that the real the one who said that the real the one who said that the real Distortion field was a combination of Distortion field was a combination of Distortion field was a combination of charm bravado Charisma hyperbole charm bravado Charisma hyperbole charm bravado Charisma hyperbole marketing appeasement and marketing appeasement and marketing appeasement and persistence and that really sounds like persistence and that really sounds like persistence and that really sounds like a pretty good description of Roosevelt a pretty good description of Roosevelt a pretty good description of Roosevelt to me I always thought one of the best to me I always thought one of the best to me I always thought one of the best examples of the fact that Roosevelt examples of the fact that Roosevelt examples of the fact that Roosevelt possessed this ability was that while possessed this ability was that while possessed this ability was that while never not admitting and being open about never not admitting and being open about never not admitting and being open about the information he sort of made the the information he sort of made the the information he sort of made the country just forget that he was country just forget that he was country just forget that he was paralyzed below the waist he got polio paralyzed below the waist he got polio paralyzed below the waist he got polio as an adult he was confined to a as an adult he was confined to a as an adult he was confined to a wheelchair you didn't see pictures of wheelchair you didn't see pictures of wheelchair you didn't see pictures of that the pictures usually show him at that the pictures usually show him at that the pictures usually show him at lecturn or seated with other world lecturn or seated with other world lecturn or seated with other world leaders fully appearing completely leaders fully appearing completely leaders fully appearing completely able-bodied he didn't but he didn't hide able-bodied he didn't but he didn't hide able-bodied he didn't but he didn't hide it really I mean uh there was talk of it it really I mean uh there was talk of it it really I mean uh there was talk of it everybody knew but he could just make everybody knew but he could just make everybody knew but he could just make you forget nowadays it would be you forget nowadays it would be you forget nowadays it would be something that was celebrated and

something that was celebrated and something that was celebrated and exalted and used as an example right of exalted and used as an example right of exalted and used as an example right of the possibility don't let anything hold the possibility don't let anything hold the possibility don't let anything hold you back the president himself or you back the president himself or you back the president himself or herself uses a wheelchair right but I herself uses a wheelchair right but I herself uses a wheelchair right but I mean that's just Roosevelt was an mean that's just Roosevelt was an mean that's just Roosevelt was an interesting had an interesting sort of interesting had an interesting sort of interesting had an interesting sort of Steve jobish is not a bad description of Steve jobish is not a bad description of Steve jobish is not a bad description of him but if you didn't like his policies him but if you didn't like his policies him but if you didn't like his policies the reality Distortion field almost the reality Distortion field almost the reality Distortion field almost seems nefarious doesn't it now some of seems nefarious doesn't it now some of seems nefarious doesn't it now some of the people who thought Roosevelt most the people who thought Roosevelt most the people who thought Roosevelt most nefarious are the people who wanted to nefarious are the people who wanted to nefarious are the people who wanted to see the United States stay clear of this see the United States stay clear of this see the United States stay clear of this new world war that had broken out in new world war that had broken out in new world war that had broken out in Europe Europe you know by 1940 as we Europe Europe you know by 1940 as we Europe Europe you know by 1940 as we said you have the German Army blowing said you have the German Army blowing said you have the German Army blowing through France and occupying Western through France and occupying Western through France and occupying Western Europe and by the way the story is Europe and by the way the story is Europe and by the way the story is coming out from that what a harsh coming out from that what a harsh coming out from that what a harsh occupation how horrible it is is occupation how horrible it is is occupation how horrible it is is something that moves public opinion yet something that moves public opinion yet something that moves public opinion yet again it should be pointed out because again it should be pointed out because again it should be pointed out because it probably played into it in a major it probably played into it in a major it probably played into it in a major way that 1940 is a presidential election way that 1940 is a presidential election way that 1940 is a presidential election year in the United States and Roosevelt year in the United States and Roosevelt year in the United States and Roosevelt is running for an unprecedented third is running for an unprecedented third is running for an unprecedented third term I read one history that put it this term I read one history that put it this term I read one history that put it this way when they said that Roosevelt and way when they said that Roosevelt and way when they said that Roosevelt and his Republican opponent were vying to his Republican opponent were vying to his Republican opponent were vying to outdo each other with their promises outdo each other with their promises outdo each other with their promises that they would keep the country out of that they would keep the country out of that they would keep the country out of the European war in other words there the European war in other words there the European war in other words there was no opponent running that said that was no opponent running that said that was no opponent running that said that they would get them in the war it was a they would get them in the war it was a they would get them in the war it was a competition to see who could be most competition to see who could be most competition to see who could be most passionate about saying they would stay passionate about saying they would stay passionate about saying they would stay out of it and when Republican hopeful out of it and when Republican hopeful out of it and when Republican hopeful Wendell wilky charges that the president Wendell wilky charges that the president Wendell wilky charges that the president is secretly trying to get the us into is secretly trying to get the us into is secretly trying to get the us into the war or doing things that would get the war or doing things that would get the war or doing things that would get the us into the war Roosevelt issues a the us into the war Roosevelt issues a the us into the war Roosevelt issues a denial and then it becomes one of these

denial and then it becomes one of these denial and then it becomes one of these big planks they put it in the Democrat big planks they put it in the Democrat big planks they put it in the Democrat party platform and Roosevelt on the party platform and Roosevelt on the party platform and Roosevelt on the stump says it over and over again I mean stump says it over and over again I mean stump says it over and over again I mean this is from a campaign speech not long this is from a campaign speech not long this is from a campaign speech not long before the election given in October before the election given in October before the election given in October 1940 where Roosevelt references all the 1940 where Roosevelt references all the 1940 where Roosevelt references all the other times that he said it he says other times that he said it he says other times that he said it he says quote I have said this before but I quote I have said this before but I quote I have said this before but I shall say it again and again and shall say it again and again and shall say it again and again and again your boys are not going to be sent again your boys are not going to be sent again your boys are not going to be sent into any Foreign into any Foreign into any Foreign Wars end quote now quote now can you write that off as a campaign can you write that off as a campaign can you write that off as a campaign promise if he breaks it is this like you promise if he breaks it is this like you promise if he breaks it is this like you know I won't raise your taxes oh well I know I won't raise your taxes oh well I know I won't raise your taxes oh well I guess I have to after he wins there's a guess I have to after he wins there's a guess I have to after he wins there's a problem with this in the American system problem with this in the American system problem with this in the American system too because there's precious few ways too because there's precious few ways too because there's precious few ways for the public to weigh in on foreign for the public to weigh in on foreign for the public to weigh in on foreign policy in the country um the presidents policy in the country um the presidents policy in the country um the presidents or people who want to be the presidents or people who want to be the presidents or people who want to be the presidents often make promises about foreign policy often make promises about foreign policy often make promises about foreign policy if they break those promises what does if they break those promises what does if they break those promises what does that mean for the ability of the that mean for the ability of the that mean for the ability of the population to influence the country's population to influence the country's population to influence the country's foreign policy for example some of the foreign policy for example some of the foreign policy for example some of the people most upset with where Roosevelt people most upset with where Roosevelt people most upset with where Roosevelt is going are people that think that they is going are people that think that they is going are people that think that they can see through his lies they see them can see through his lies they see them can see through his lies they see them as lies right when he says I'm not as lies right when he says I'm not as lies right when he says I'm not trying to get the country into war trying to get the country into war trying to get the country into war they're looking at what's actually they're looking at what's actually they're looking at what's actually happening and Rosevelt is mimicking many happening and Rosevelt is mimicking many happening and Rosevelt is mimicking many of the same things that Democratic of the same things that Democratic of the same things that Democratic president woodro Wilson did the year president woodro Wilson did the year president woodro Wilson did the year before the US got into the first world before the US got into the first world before the US got into the first world war Wilson also promising by the way war Wilson also promising by the way war Wilson also promising by the way that he won't get our boys you know to that he won't get our boys you know to that he won't get our boys you know to give their blood in a European War what

give their blood in a European War what give their blood in a European War what is it 5 months after he wins the is it 5 months after he wins the is it 5 months after he wins the election they're election they're election they're there and Roosevelt won't be the last there and Roosevelt won't be the last there and Roosevelt won't be the last president in the 20th century to do president in the 20th century to do president in the 20th century to do it there was a very interesting argument it there was a very interesting argument it there was a very interesting argument though uh that I read by historian though uh that I read by historian though uh that I read by historian Campbell Craig and I hope I I get it Campbell Craig and I hope I I get it Campbell Craig and I hope I I get it right uh the spirit of it anyway but he right uh the spirit of it anyway but he right uh the spirit of it anyway but he was talking about American historian was talking about American historian was talking about American historian Charles Austin beard who had his Charles Austin beard who had his Charles Austin beard who had his reputation destroyed when after the reputation destroyed when after the reputation destroyed when after the second world war he wrote a book that second world war he wrote a book that second world war he wrote a book that treated Roosevelt a little like a treated Roosevelt a little like a treated Roosevelt a little like a criminal in a docket and he was the criminal in a docket and he was the criminal in a docket and he was the prosecuting attorney and what he was prosecuting attorney and what he was prosecuting attorney and what he was trying to prove was that Roosevelt was trying to prove was that Roosevelt was trying to prove was that Roosevelt was involved in a conspiracy to take the involved in a conspiracy to take the involved in a conspiracy to take the country into the European war against country into the European war against country into the European war against the will of the country and Craig had a the will of the country and Craig had a the will of the country and Craig had a very interesting argument he he said very interesting argument he he said very interesting argument he he said that some historians uh are mad at that some historians uh are mad at that some historians uh are mad at Charles Austin beard for saying that Charles Austin beard for saying that Charles Austin beard for saying that there was a conspiracy and Craig says there was a conspiracy and Craig says there was a conspiracy and Craig says but there are conspiracies in the US but there are conspiracies in the US but there are conspiracies in the US government all the time and he lists government all the time and he lists government all the time and he lists some he says the conspiracy is not the some he says the conspiracy is not the some he says the conspiracy is not the problem and the reason that beard was problem and the reason that beard was problem and the reason that beard was discredited beard was discredited discredited beard was discredited discredited beard was discredited because Roosevelt turned out to have because Roosevelt turned out to have because Roosevelt turned out to have done what the American people people done what the American people people done what the American people people afterwards decided they approved of so afterwards decided they approved of so afterwards decided they approved of so maybe you could compare him to the way maybe you could compare him to the way maybe you could compare him to the way we talked about Churchill in the era we talked about Churchill in the era we talked about Churchill in the era where Churchill was out of power his where Churchill was out of power his where Churchill was out of power his bellicose nature was out of touch with bellicose nature was out of touch with bellicose nature was out of touch with the tenor of of those times could the tenor of of those times could the tenor of of those times could Roosevelt be said to be more farseeing Roosevelt be said to be more farseeing Roosevelt be said to be more farseeing than the American public they may 95% of than the American public they may 95% of than the American public they may 95% of them say they don't want to get involved them say they don't want to get involved them say they don't want to get involved in this European War but maybe Roosevelt in this European War but maybe Roosevelt in this European War but maybe Roosevelt knows better and if I read Campbell knows better and if I read Campbell knows better and if I read Campbell Craig correctly he's saying that the Craig correctly he's saying that the Craig correctly he's saying that the public opinion polls after the war and public opinion polls after the war and public opinion polls after the war and the approval the people had for that and

the approval the people had for that and the approval the people had for that and the fact that a guy who didn't want to the fact that a guy who didn't want to the fact that a guy who didn't want to be in that war Charles Austin beard be in that war Charles Austin beard be in that war Charles Austin beard would have the public turn on him would have the public turn on him would have the public turn on him because it's such an unpopular attitude because it's such an unpopular attitude because it's such an unpopular attitude maybe the argument is FDR was maybe the argument is FDR was maybe the argument is FDR was right sometimes you have to lead from right sometimes you have to lead from right sometimes you have to lead from the front right and if the American the front right and if the American the front right and if the American public aren't ready yet I'm ahead of the public aren't ready yet I'm ahead of the public aren't ready yet I'm ahead of the curve they will agree with me when we curve they will agree with me when we curve they will agree with me when we get get get there although as we said it was an there although as we said it was an there although as we said it was an election year and if you want to read election year and if you want to read election year and if you want to read the polls a certain way you could argue the polls a certain way you could argue the polls a certain way you could argue that Roosevelt was doing exactly what that Roosevelt was doing exactly what that Roosevelt was doing exactly what the polling data seemed to want him to the polling data seemed to want him to the polling data seemed to want him to do right you have an overwhelming do right you have an overwhelming do right you have an overwhelming majority that do not want to send our majority that do not want to send our majority that do not want to send our boys over there to fight but you also boys over there to fight but you also boys over there to fight but you also have an overwhelming majority that want have an overwhelming majority that want have an overwhelming majority that want to see Britain and France Prevail so if to see Britain and France Prevail so if to see Britain and France Prevail so if those are the parameters what sort of those are the parameters what sort of those are the parameters what sort of room for maneuver do you have well many room for maneuver do you have well many room for maneuver do you have well many of the same things woodro Wilson did in of the same things woodro Wilson did in of the same things woodro Wilson did in the first world war for example you can the first world war for example you can the first world war for example you can help the help the help the Allies that's a bit of a problem when Allies that's a bit of a problem when Allies that's a bit of a problem when you're portraying yourself as a neutral you're portraying yourself as a neutral you're portraying yourself as a neutral country which is officially what the US country which is officially what the US country which is officially what the US was portraying itself in the first world was portraying itself in the first world was portraying itself in the first world war as too a neutral country and you get war as too a neutral country and you get war as too a neutral country and you get arguments again General Marine Corps arguments again General Marine Corps arguments again General Marine Corps General Smedley Butler I think he's General Smedley Butler I think he's General Smedley Butler I think he's still the most most decorated American still the most most decorated American still the most most decorated American Soldier could be wrong about that but I Soldier could be wrong about that but I Soldier could be wrong about that but I think so wrote a whole book small book think so wrote a whole book small book think so wrote a whole book small book but a whole book talking about how we but a whole book talking about how we but a whole book talking about how we were following the same pattern again were following the same pattern again were following the same pattern again and we're just going to run into the and we're just going to run into the and we're just going to run into the same kind of problems and that the same kind of problems and that the same kind of problems and that the people in power know this already people in power know this already people in power know this already Charles Austin beard himself eight years Charles Austin beard himself eight years Charles Austin beard himself eight years before the war predicted it would come before the war predicted it would come before the war predicted it would come from an incident or a provocation and from an incident or a provocation and from an incident or a provocation and then there you go well when you have then there you go well when you have then there you go well when you have German submarines torpedoing British German submarines torpedoing British German submarines torpedoing British Merchant ships 5 seconds after they Merchant ships 5 seconds after they Merchant ships 5 seconds after they leave the Eastern seaboards port leave the Eastern seaboards port leave the Eastern seaboards port maybe with some Americans on them isn't

maybe with some Americans on them isn't maybe with some Americans on them isn't that just setting up a provocation isn't that just setting up a provocation isn't that just setting up a provocation isn't that exactly like what happened in the that exactly like what happened in the that exactly like what happened in the first World War I think there's a Life first World War I think there's a Life first World War I think there's a Life Magazine photograph I think I remember Magazine photograph I think I remember Magazine photograph I think I remember showing uh the explosion of a tanker or showing uh the explosion of a tanker or showing uh the explosion of a tanker or something heading for Britain right off something heading for Britain right off something heading for Britain right off the US Shore and you can see the lights the US Shore and you can see the lights the US Shore and you can see the lights of like New Jersey boardwalk or of like New Jersey boardwalk or of like New Jersey boardwalk or something in the distance at night you something in the distance at night you something in the distance at night you got to be crazy to think that that's not got to be crazy to think that that's not got to be crazy to think that that's not going to lead to something that sucks a going to lead to something that sucks a going to lead to something that sucks a country into the war what's more country into the war what's more country into the war what's more Roosevelt's got an Undeclared sort of Roosevelt's got an Undeclared sort of Roosevelt's got an Undeclared sort of War going and it's understandable why War going and it's understandable why War going and it's understandable why you would sending US destroyers out to you would sending US destroyers out to you would sending US destroyers out to stalk those German submarines right the stalk those German submarines right the stalk those German submarines right the neutral country but Roosevelt could neutral country but Roosevelt could neutral country but Roosevelt could argue and a lot of Americans would agree argue and a lot of Americans would agree argue and a lot of Americans would agree hey hey hey we can't have you know hey hey hey we can't have you know hey hey hey we can't have you know submarines torpedoing people so close to submarines torpedoing people so close to submarines torpedoing people so close to us an argument can be made that us an argument can be made that us an argument can be made that Roosevelt was sort of following he said Roosevelt was sort of following he said Roosevelt was sort of following he said he was pushing it to the limits of the he was pushing it to the limits of the he was pushing it to the limits of the law but you can make an argument just law but you can make an argument just law but you can make an argument just like you can that he wanted the country like you can that he wanted the country like you can that he wanted the country into war that he every step of the way into war that he every step of the way into war that he every step of the way was doing the next logic iCal step in a was doing the next logic iCal step in a was doing the next logic iCal step in a progression and hoping it didn't go any progression and hoping it didn't go any progression and hoping it didn't go any farther certainly you can make a better farther certainly you can make a better farther certainly you can make a better argument for that in Asia and the argument for that in Asia and the argument for that in Asia and the Pacific Roosevelt is quoted in a couple Pacific Roosevelt is quoted in a couple Pacific Roosevelt is quoted in a couple of my history books as saying that he of my history books as saying that he of my history books as saying that he didn't want war in the Pacific because didn't want war in the Pacific because didn't want war in the Pacific because he only has one Navy and the implication he only has one Navy and the implication he only has one Navy and the implication is he's going to need it in the Atlantic is he's going to need it in the Atlantic is he's going to need it in the Atlantic against the Nazis but let's be honest against the Nazis but let's be honest against the Nazis but let's be honest with a guy like this that doesn't mean with a guy like this that doesn't mean with a guy like this that doesn't mean anything he's much more nuanced and anything he's much more nuanced and anything he's much more nuanced and layered than that some of the modern layered than that some of the modern layered than that some of the modern histories I've read on this have a very histories I've read on this have a very histories I've read on this have a very interesting Viewpoint that I hadn't interesting Viewpoint that I hadn't interesting Viewpoint that I hadn't considered which shows you the blind considered which shows you the blind considered which shows you the blind spot in the kind of histories we used to spot in the kind of histories we used to spot in the kind of histories we used to read the more modern histories point out

read the more modern histories point out read the more modern histories point out things from the other side that make things from the other side that make things from the other side that make clear things that we've forgotten and clear things that we've forgotten and clear things that we've forgotten and one of them is that debating whether or one of them is that debating whether or one of them is that debating whether or not Roosevelt wanted a war against Japan not Roosevelt wanted a war against Japan not Roosevelt wanted a war against Japan in the Pacific ignores the fact that he in the Pacific ignores the fact that he in the Pacific ignores the fact that he already has one it just doesn't involve already has one it just doesn't involve already has one it just doesn't involve US US US troops authors like Franco David Macker troops authors like Franco David Macker troops authors like Franco David Macker and others essentially refer to the War and others essentially refer to the War and others essentially refer to the War in China as a proxy war not just for the in China as a proxy war not just for the in China as a proxy war not just for the United States but for great Britain United States but for great Britain United States but for great Britain who's doing much of the same stuff and who's doing much of the same stuff and who's doing much of the same stuff and the Soviet Union all of whom have an the Soviet Union all of whom have an the Soviet Union all of whom have an interest in keeping Japan bogged interest in keeping Japan bogged interest in keeping Japan bogged down so all of them are at one time or down so all of them are at one time or down so all of them are at one time or another providing arms resources another providing arms resources another providing arms resources supplies some of the histories make a supplies some of the histories make a supplies some of the histories make a case that this becomes a wonderful uh case that this becomes a wonderful uh case that this becomes a wonderful uh thing that Japanese commanders who've thing that Japanese commanders who've thing that Japanese commanders who've been promising great victories and are been promising great victories and are been promising great victories and are failing can blame things on and you do failing can blame things on and you do failing can blame things on and you do once again see the similarities in the once again see the similarities in the once again see the similarities in the Vietnam War era where all of a sudden it Vietnam War era where all of a sudden it Vietnam War era where all of a sudden it all became about the hoochi men Trail all became about the hoochi men Trail all became about the hoochi men Trail and if we can just shut down that and if we can just shut down that and if we can just shut down that network of uh resupply roads uh down the network of uh resupply roads uh down the network of uh resupply roads uh down the outside powers like China and the Soviet outside powers like China and the Soviet outside powers like China and the Soviet Union who are supplying the North Union who are supplying the North Union who are supplying the North Vietnamese won't be able to get their Vietnamese won't be able to get their Vietnamese won't be able to get their stuff to them and we win in this case stuff to them and we win in this case stuff to them and we win in this case the Japanese become obsessed with the Japanese become obsessed with the Japanese become obsessed with shutting off the many I mean leaking shutting off the many I mean leaking shutting off the many I mean leaking like a Civ because it's about the like a Civ because it's about the like a Civ because it's about the geographical size of the us as we said geographical size of the us as we said geographical size of the us as we said the many resupply points that the the many resupply points that the the many resupply points that the Chinese have they have the Soviets in Chinese have they have the Soviets in Chinese have they have the Soviets in the north the British are leaking stuff the north the British are leaking stuff the north the British are leaking stuff over from Hong Kong the Burma Road over from Hong Kong the Burma Road over from Hong Kong the Burma Road there's stuff coming over from uh French

there's stuff coming over from uh French there's stuff coming over from uh French Indochina and the US is uh in fits and Indochina and the US is uh in fits and Indochina and the US is uh in fits and starts doing stuff too and they sell at starts doing stuff too and they sell at starts doing stuff too and they sell at below cost all kinds of things at one below cost all kinds of things at one below cost all kinds of things at one point the Soviets would deliver like 800 point the Soviets would deliver like 800 point the Soviets would deliver like 800 planes and the advisers to teach you how planes and the advisers to teach you how planes and the advisers to teach you how to fly them if you are the Japanese and to fly them if you are the Japanese and to fly them if you are the Japanese and you need a nice victory in China to free you need a nice victory in China to free you need a nice victory in China to free up you know this this is a food eating up you know this this is a food eating up you know this this is a food eating contest and the Japanese sat down to a contest and the Japanese sat down to a contest and the Japanese sat down to a giant plate of pancak giant plate of pancak giant plate of pancak and they're halfway through the pancakes and they're halfway through the pancakes and they're halfway through the pancakes now and they're starting to realize holy now and they're starting to realize holy now and they're starting to realize holy cow I'm not going to make it through cow I'm not going to make it through cow I'm not going to make it through this meanwhile other people are secretly this meanwhile other people are secretly this meanwhile other people are secretly the Soviet Union Great Britain the the Soviet Union Great Britain the the Soviet Union Great Britain the United States piling more Pancakes on United States piling more Pancakes on United States piling more Pancakes on the table when you're not looking and the table when you're not looking and the table when you're not looking and every time you turn around there's more every time you turn around there's more every time you turn around there's more pancakes you're already almost full by pancakes you're already almost full by pancakes you're already almost full by 1939 the Japanese want out of China it's 1939 the Japanese want out of China it's 1939 the Japanese want out of China it's like they're addicted to it but they got like they're addicted to it but they got like they're addicted to it but they got too much there was an old comic book too much there was an old comic book too much there was an old comic book episode once about that that you know episode once about that that you know episode once about that that you know you're going to steal Superman's power you're going to steal Superman's power you're going to steal Superman's power and you want it but then you couldn't and you want it but then you couldn't and you want it but then you couldn't you couldn't handle it all and you just you couldn't handle it all and you just you couldn't handle it all and you just overdosed on it well the Japanese are overdosed on it well the Japanese are overdosed on it well the Japanese are looking to figure out a way to have looking to figure out a way to have looking to figure out a way to have their cake and eat it too in China what their cake and eat it too in China what their cake and eat it too in China what that means is how do we get out but that means is how do we get out but that means is how do we get out but leave it in a circumstances where we leave it in a circumstances where we leave it in a circumstances where we control it right puppet governments control it right puppet governments control it right puppet governments things like that they want to replicate things like that they want to replicate things like that they want to replicate what they did in Manchuria you know now what they did in Manchuria you know now what they did in Manchuria you know now called manuo because it's a Japanese called manuo because it's a Japanese called manuo because it's a Japanese puppet state just like Korea is lot puppet state just like Korea is lot puppet state just like Korea is lot harder to do that in a place the size of harder to do that in a place the size of harder to do that in a place the size of China especially when you haven't China especially when you haven't China especially when you haven't defeated China yet and in 1939 the defeated China yet and in 1939 the defeated China yet and in 1939 the Chinese win a couple of battles against Chinese win a couple of battles against Chinese win a couple of battles against the Japanese boom they weren't ready for the Japanese boom they weren't ready for the Japanese boom they weren't ready for that what's more the Japanese who always that what's more the Japanese who always that what's more the Japanese who always amongst the Army had a huge contingent

amongst the Army had a huge contingent amongst the Army had a huge contingent of officers that really wanted to attack of officers that really wanted to attack of officers that really wanted to attack the Soviet Union got their wish the Soviet Union got their wish the Soviet Union got their wish unfortunately and a couple of things unfortunately and a couple of things unfortunately and a couple of things that were called incidents or clashes that were called incidents or clashes that were called incidents or clashes happened between the Red Army and the happened between the Red Army and the happened between the Red Army and the Japanese Army up there the guantang Army Japanese Army up there the guantang Army Japanese Army up there the guantang Army and the Japanese got their nose severely and the Japanese got their nose severely and the Japanese got their nose severely bloodied 177,000 casualties and one of bloodied 177,000 casualties and one of bloodied 177,000 casualties and one of these led to some reforms in the these led to some reforms in the these led to some reforms in the Japanese Army by the way but also Japanese Army by the way but also Japanese Army by the way but also blunted the enthusiasm that had been blunted the enthusiasm that had been blunted the enthusiasm that had been running in Japanese leadership circles running in Japanese leadership circles running in Japanese leadership circles for a crusade against the Soviet Union for a crusade against the Soviet Union for a crusade against the Soviet Union which also turned Japanese eyes into which also turned Japanese eyes into which also turned Japanese eyes into other directions where things might be other directions where things might be other directions where things might be gained at less of a cost this is what's gained at less of a cost this is what's gained at less of a cost this is what's known by the way as the north south known by the way as the north south known by the way as the north south debate during this time period in debate during this time period in debate during this time period in Japanese politics do we go north against Japanese politics do we go north against Japanese politics do we go north against the Soviet Union do we go south against the Soviet Union do we go south against the Soviet Union do we go south against those possessions that are not so well those possessions that are not so well those possessions that are not so well defended now by the colonial defended now by the colonial defended now by the colonial Masters the Japanese sources invariably Masters the Japanese sources invariably Masters the Japanese sources invariably focus on two things that we in the west focus on two things that we in the west focus on two things that we in the west don't focus on as much uh China and don't focus on as much uh China and don't focus on as much uh China and communism Saburo yanaga years ago was communism Saburo yanaga years ago was communism Saburo yanaga years ago was pointing out you know keep your eye on pointing out you know keep your eye on pointing out you know keep your eye on the prize the Japanese are this is all the prize the Japanese are this is all the prize the Japanese are this is all about China to them all these other about China to them all these other about China to them all these other things that happened including the war things that happened including the war things that happened including the war with the United States and all of this with the United States and all of this with the United States and all of this is an attempt to figure out how to solve is an attempt to figure out how to solve is an attempt to figure out how to solve their China war situation to their their China war situation to their their China war situation to their satisfaction and communism is the other satisfaction and communism is the other satisfaction and communism is the other thing that they focus on inordinately thing that they focus on inordinately thing that they focus on inordinately and in the west forget that too that and in the west forget that too that and in the west forget that too that it's fair I think to call Japan the most it's fair I think to call Japan the most it's fair I think to call Japan the most fervently large anti-communist country

fervently large anti-communist country fervently large anti-communist country in the world during this time period and in the world during this time period and in the world during this time period and that's really saying something in a age that's really saying something in a age that's really saying something in a age where Nazi Germany exists but the where Nazi Germany exists but the where Nazi Germany exists but the Japanese hate communism and they portray Japanese hate communism and they portray Japanese hate communism and they portray and they tell themselves and they use it and they tell themselves and they use it and they tell themselves and they use it in propaganda with their public and in propaganda with their public and in propaganda with their public and maybe there's even some truth to it that maybe there's even some truth to it that maybe there's even some truth to it that this war in China is in large part a war this war in China is in large part a war this war in China is in large part a war against against against communism they have their own version of communism they have their own version of communism they have their own version of what the West will have 10 or 20 years what the West will have 10 or 20 years what the West will have 10 or 20 years after this period where the West will be after this period where the West will be after this period where the West will be worried about the domino effect where worried about the domino effect where worried about the domino effect where communism spreads one country to another communism spreads one country to another communism spreads one country to another you know like dominoes the Japanese have you know like dominoes the Japanese have you know like dominoes the Japanese have their same sort of an attitude here it's their same sort of an attitude here it's their same sort of an attitude here it's going to move through China and then going to move through China and then going to move through China and then it's going to come to Japan so they're it's going to come to Japan so they're it's going to come to Japan so they're going to stop it over there before it going to stop it over there before it going to stop it over there before it comes over to the Homeland meanwhile comes over to the Homeland meanwhile comes over to the Homeland meanwhile they're telling themselves that they're they're telling themselves that they're they're telling themselves that they're paying all this money sacrificing all paying all this money sacrificing all paying all this money sacrificing all these lives in an effort to keep and these lives in an effort to keep and these lives in an effort to keep and protect the Chinese people who haven't protect the Chinese people who haven't protect the Chinese people who haven't fallen under communism sway free and fallen under communism sway free and fallen under communism sway free and even to roll back communism and free even to roll back communism and free even to roll back communism and free Chinese people who are the slaves of the Chinese people who are the slaves of the Chinese people who are the slaves of the Bolshevik and leninist thinkers you go Bolshevik and leninist thinkers you go Bolshevik and leninist thinkers you go talk to a Japanese parent who's lost a talk to a Japanese parent who's lost a talk to a Japanese parent who's lost a son in that fighting you're likely to son in that fighting you're likely to son in that fighting you're likely to hear some sort of rationale like that hear some sort of rationale like that hear some sort of rationale like that after all isn't that what you would like after all isn't that what you would like after all isn't that what you would like to think your son died for other to think your son died for other to think your son died for other people's freedoms it's a pretty people's freedoms it's a pretty people's freedoms it's a pretty high-minded cause a lot of people's Sons high-minded cause a lot of people's Sons high-minded cause a lot of people's Sons on all sides in a lot of Wars have died on all sides in a lot of Wars have died on all sides in a lot of Wars have died for things like for things like for things like that now China of course is going to that now China of course is going to that now China of course is going to come as we said like an intervention the come as we said like an intervention the come as we said like an intervention the big sticking point that it's hard to see big sticking point that it's hard to see big sticking point that it's hard to see anyone overcoming because the Japanese anyone overcoming because the Japanese anyone overcoming because the Japanese in their minds have to get some sort of

in their minds have to get some sort of in their minds have to get some sort of deal in China just like the US had to deal in China just like the US had to deal in China just like the US had to get some sort of deal in Vietnam where get some sort of deal in Vietnam where get some sort of deal in Vietnam where it it gets the boxes ticked off that it it it gets the boxes ticked off that it it it gets the boxes ticked off that it needs to get so it can leave in Japan's needs to get so it can leave in Japan's needs to get so it can leave in Japan's case those boxes really are control of case those boxes really are control of case those boxes really are control of China's resources this is not something China's resources this is not something China's resources this is not something that the Western powers are prepared to that the Western powers are prepared to that the Western powers are prepared to let them have so how do you how do you let them have so how do you how do you let them have so how do you how do you get around that well we had said that get around that well we had said that get around that well we had said that Japan was basically being confronted Japan was basically being confronted Japan was basically being confronted with an intervention by the with an intervention by the with an intervention by the anglo-american powers they pull if you anglo-american powers they pull if you anglo-american powers they pull if you want to look at it this way something want to look at it this way something want to look at it this way something more like a kobashi Maru from Star Trek more like a kobashi Maru from Star Trek more like a kobashi Maru from Star Trek you know like a third way you didn't you know like a third way you didn't you know like a third way you didn't know I had a third option right uh give know I had a third option right uh give know I had a third option right uh give up the drugs or we're going to cut off up the drugs or we're going to cut off up the drugs or we're going to cut off your money so you can't buy drugs well your money so you can't buy drugs well your money so you can't buy drugs well maybe I have maybe I have maybe I have friends after the Germans blow through friends after the Germans blow through friends after the Germans blow through Western Europe in 1940 right around the Western Europe in 1940 right around the Western Europe in 1940 right around the same time the Japanese sign an align same time the Japanese sign an align same time the Japanese sign an align iance with them it's called The iance with them it's called The iance with them it's called The tripartite Pact I think it was late tripartite Pact I think it was late tripartite Pact I think it was late September 1940 creates something called September 1940 creates something called September 1940 creates something called the axis and the Axis powers because the axis and the Axis powers because the axis and the Axis powers because Italy will join and some other fascist Italy will join and some other fascist Italy will join and some other fascist leaning countries smaller countries to leaning countries smaller countries to leaning countries smaller countries to be named be named be named later this is a unification of the later this is a unification of the later this is a unification of the outside countries in terms of the club outside countries in terms of the club outside countries in terms of the club all these countries want some sort of all these countries want some sort of all these countries want some sort of autarchy self-sufficiency and autarchy self-sufficiency and autarchy self-sufficiency and unfortunately for all of them none of unfortunately for all of them none of unfortunately for all of them none of them have oil when Romania leans that them have oil when Romania leans that them have oil when Romania leans that way that'll help a little way that'll help a little way that'll help a little but the Japanese joining the Axis powers but the Japanese joining the Axis powers but the Japanese joining the Axis powers is one of the Fatal missteps and is one of the Fatal missteps and is one of the Fatal missteps and terrible moves that leads to tragedy for terrible moves that leads to tragedy for terrible moves that leads to tragedy for everyone in

everyone in everyone in Asia and it's often pointed out that it Asia and it's often pointed out that it Asia and it's often pointed out that it should have been avoided had you had a should have been avoided had you had a should have been avoided had you had a different kind of government with a different kind of government with a different kind of government with a different system of making decisions you different system of making decisions you different system of making decisions you might have avoided the way things went might have avoided the way things went might have avoided the way things went because if you actually look at what because if you actually look at what because if you actually look at what people felt like including the emperor people felt like including the emperor people felt like including the emperor there were tons of people in the there were tons of people in the there were tons of people in the Japanese power structure that wanted Japanese power structure that wanted Japanese power structure that wanted nothing to do with a conflict with the nothing to do with a conflict with the nothing to do with a conflict with the United States and Britain avoid that at United States and Britain avoid that at United States and Britain avoid that at all costs so how do you end up all costs so how do you end up all costs so how do you end up there well there's a ton of missteps and there well there's a ton of missteps and there well there's a ton of missteps and miscommunication and misinterpretation miscommunication and misinterpretation miscommunication and misinterpretation and mistranslations how about the and mistranslations how about the and mistranslations how about the misread that happens when the Japanese misread that happens when the Japanese misread that happens when the Japanese foreign minister who signs this deal foreign minister who signs this deal foreign minister who signs this deal this AIS agreement how about his misread this AIS agreement how about his misread this AIS agreement how about his misread of how the United States would react of how the United States would react of how the United States would react this guy's name by the way is Matt sooka this guy's name by the way is Matt sooka this guy's name by the way is Matt sooka and he is prom ently portrayed in all and he is prom ently portrayed in all and he is prom ently portrayed in all the history books his importance and the history books his importance and the history books his importance and influence is sometimes debated but this influence is sometimes debated but this influence is sometimes debated but this is a guy who on his resume essentially is a guy who on his resume essentially is a guy who on his resume essentially calls himself the American calls himself the American calls himself the American expert he graduated from the University expert he graduated from the University expert he graduated from the University of Oregon he worked in the United States of Oregon he worked in the United States of Oregon he worked in the United States then goes back to Japan and he's the guy then goes back to Japan and he's the guy then goes back to Japan and he's the guy who thinks signing an agreement with who thinks signing an agreement with who thinks signing an agreement with Nazi Germany is going to help give you Nazi Germany is going to help give you Nazi Germany is going to help give you leverage against the United States that leverage against the United States that leverage against the United States that that's how they're going to that's how they're going to that's how they're going to react Japan was hoping for someone who react Japan was hoping for someone who react Japan was hoping for someone who would even up the scales a little bit in would even up the scales a little bit in would even up the scales a little bit in terms of its negotiating power against terms of its negotiating power against terms of its negotiating power against the West I mean when you read what they the West I mean when you read what they the West I mean when you read what they were hoping for including what the Prime were hoping for including what the Prime were hoping for including what the Prime Minister was hoping for they felt like Minister was hoping for they felt like Minister was hoping for they felt like they needed somebody on their side

they needed somebody on their side they needed somebody on their side otherwise you couldn't negotiate with otherwise you couldn't negotiate with otherwise you couldn't negotiate with the Americans from any sort of position the Americans from any sort of position the Americans from any sort of position of parity much less of parity much less of parity much less strength and I think you kind of have to strength and I think you kind of have to strength and I think you kind of have to call it about 50% effective when call it about 50% effective when call it about 50% effective when examining the results because it kind of examining the results because it kind of examining the results because it kind of did Scare the Americans and get their did Scare the Americans and get their did Scare the Americans and get their attention and force a response the 50% attention and force a response the 50% attention and force a response the 50% of the deal though that was not of the deal though that was not of the deal though that was not successful is it wasn't the response the successful is it wasn't the response the successful is it wasn't the response the Japanese were thinking they were going Japanese were thinking they were going Japanese were thinking they were going to to to get it didn't make the Americans back get it didn't make the Americans back get it didn't make the Americans back off and think maybe they'd better be off and think maybe they'd better be off and think maybe they'd better be more cautious here because otherwise more cautious here because otherwise more cautious here because otherwise maybe we'll be fighting the lft wafa in maybe we'll be fighting the lft wafa in maybe we'll be fighting the lft wafa in the Pacific and the Vermont will be the Pacific and the Vermont will be the Pacific and the Vermont will be defending some of these Japanese defense defending some of these Japanese defense defending some of these Japanese defense perimeter islands and well I mean the perimeter islands and well I mean the perimeter islands and well I mean the Japanese were certainly hoping that that Japanese were certainly hoping that that Japanese were certainly hoping that that might be the case and if you look at might be the case and if you look at might be the case and if you look at some of the promises the Nazis were some of the promises the Nazis were some of the promises the Nazis were making to the Japanese when trying to making to the Japanese when trying to making to the Japanese when trying to convince them to sign this agreement convince them to sign this agreement convince them to sign this agreement which they tried to do the year before which they tried to do the year before which they tried to do the year before apparently too they were sort of hinting apparently too they were sort of hinting apparently too they were sort of hinting that that's how it would be right I mean that that's how it would be right I mean that that's how it would be right I mean if you get into a war with the United if you get into a war with the United if you get into a war with the United States we'll be right States we'll be right States we'll be right there unfortunately for the Japanese there unfortunately for the Japanese there unfortunately for the Japanese that's a worst case scenario for the that's a worst case scenario for the that's a worst case scenario for the Americans too and a situation that maybe Americans too and a situation that maybe Americans too and a situation that maybe they could have looked the other way for they could have looked the other way for they could have looked the other way for a while and focused on Europe when it a while and focused on Europe when it a while and focused on Europe when it was just Japan which had a limited was just Japan which had a limited was just Japan which had a limited amount of ability to really threaten the amount of ability to really threaten the amount of ability to really threaten the United States looked a lot more like United States looked a lot more like United States looked a lot more like something that had to be dealt with something that had to be dealt with something that had to be dealt with right away when it's the Eastern wing of right away when it's the Eastern wing of right away when it's the Eastern wing of the axis Alliance and the tentacles are the axis Alliance and the tentacles are the axis Alliance and the tentacles are now stretching out over the Pacific and now stretching out over the Pacific and now stretching out over the Pacific and the US is facing a war on both fronts the US is facing a war on both fronts the US is facing a war on both fronts you don't walk away with your tail you don't walk away with your tail you don't walk away with your tail between your legs when that's the

between your legs when that's the between your legs when that's the situation you take it with an amount of situation you take it with an amount of situation you take it with an amount of deadly seriousness the amount of diplomatic seriousness the amount of diplomatic flexibility the Japanese are going to flexibility the Japanese are going to flexibility the Japanese are going to have after signing this agreement with have after signing this agreement with have after signing this agreement with the Nazis the Nazis the Nazis is severely limited compared to what it is severely limited compared to what it is severely limited compared to what it was before they they weren't ready for was before they they weren't ready for was before they they weren't ready for this fact that they were going to be this fact that they were going to be this fact that they were going to be lumped in now with people who had some lumped in now with people who had some lumped in now with people who had some of the worst press you can get in the of the worst press you can get in the of the worst press you can get in the western democracies I mean the Japanese western democracies I mean the Japanese western democracies I mean the Japanese PR uh wasn't good already we talked PR uh wasn't good already we talked PR uh wasn't good already we talked about the Life magazine photos of the about the Life magazine photos of the about the Life magazine photos of the babies being bombed in China and all babies being bombed in China and all babies being bombed in China and all these kinds of things and the rape of these kinds of things and the rape of these kinds of things and the rape of Nan King well now you hook yourselves up Nan King well now you hook yourselves up Nan King well now you hook yourselves up in the minds of the American public with in the minds of the American public with in the minds of the American public with people who are diametrically opposed to people who are diametrically opposed to people who are diametrically opposed to the Western values that are Trump ited the Western values that are Trump ited the Western values that are Trump ited and and and celebrated you know you can flip a coin celebrated you know you can flip a coin celebrated you know you can flip a coin who's more opposed the stalinists in the who's more opposed the stalinists in the who's more opposed the stalinists in the Soviet Union or the Nazis in Germany Soviet Union or the Nazis in Germany Soviet Union or the Nazis in Germany nonetheless I mean these people are book nonetheless I mean these people are book nonetheless I mean these people are book burners they persecute minorities and burners they persecute minorities and burners they persecute minorities and have government sanction programs like have government sanction programs like have government sanction programs like Crystal KNX they're against freedom of Crystal KNX they're against freedom of Crystal KNX they're against freedom of thought freedom of speech freedom of thought freedom of speech freedom of thought freedom of speech freedom of religion they don't have any due process religion they don't have any due process religion they don't have any due process they don't believe in equality under the they don't believe in equality under the they don't believe in equality under the law they have a harsh occupation they law they have a harsh occupation they law they have a harsh occupation they believe in Collective punishment they I believe in Collective punishment they I believe in Collective punishment they I mean the list goes on and mean the list goes on and mean the list goes on and on and the Japanese have now thrown in on and the Japanese have now thrown in on and the Japanese have now thrown in their lot in the eyes of the Americans their lot in the eyes of the Americans their lot in the eyes of the Americans with that crowd how much less willing to

with that crowd how much less willing to with that crowd how much less willing to come to sort of an accommodation with come to sort of an accommodation with come to sort of an accommodation with the Imperial Japanese government are the the Imperial Japanese government are the the Imperial Japanese government are the American people going to be now and how American people going to be now and how American people going to be now and how on Earth did a guy who graduated from on Earth did a guy who graduated from on Earth did a guy who graduated from the University of Oregon and worked in the University of Oregon and worked in the University of Oregon and worked in the United States get that one so the United States get that one so the United States get that one so wrong to be fair wrong to be fair wrong to be fair another aspect of this that we in the another aspect of this that we in the another aspect of this that we in the west don't always think about is the west don't always think about is the west don't always think about is the fact that the way the second world war fact that the way the second world war fact that the way the second world war looks to us is not necessarily the way looks to us is not necessarily the way looks to us is not necessarily the way it looked to a bunch of the rest of the it looked to a bunch of the rest of the it looked to a bunch of the rest of the world especially places like Asia in the world especially places like Asia in the world especially places like Asia in the west we see this as good versus evil in west we see this as good versus evil in west we see this as good versus evil in Asia in a lot of these countries that Asia in a lot of these countries that Asia in a lot of these countries that were under colonial rule at this time were under colonial rule at this time were under colonial rule at this time it's a lot more questionable if it's a it's a lot more questionable if it's a it's a lot more questionable if it's a good guy bad guy thing it might be two good guy bad guy thing it might be two good guy bad guy thing it might be two bad guys from their point of view bad guys from their point of view bad guys from their point of view historian John Tolland in a book that historian John Tolland in a book that historian John Tolland in a book that was written Way Back in 1970 but still was written Way Back in 1970 but still was written Way Back in 1970 but still has some value inside it despite being has some value inside it despite being has some value inside it despite being outdated in other respects including outdated in other respects including outdated in other respects including what we know about the emperor but I what we know about the emperor but I what we know about the emperor but I mean he has a whole part admittedly mean he has a whole part admittedly mean he has a whole part admittedly trying to look at this from the Asian trying to look at this from the Asian trying to look at this from the Asian perspective that points out that you perspective that points out that you perspective that points out that you know if you don't see the Western know if you don't see the Western know if you don't see the Western democracies as all that good and a lot democracies as all that good and a lot democracies as all that good and a lot of Asia had bought into the promises the of Asia had bought into the promises the of Asia had bought into the promises the high-minded sentiments from the first high-minded sentiments from the first high-minded sentiments from the first world war about self-determination and world war about self-determination and world war about self-determination and all these things that we fight for and all these things that we fight for and all these things that we fight for and people getting to have you know own people getting to have you know own people getting to have you know own States and I mean all that stuff was States and I mean all that stuff was States and I mean all that stuff was kind of believed and as several of the kind of believed and as several of the kind of believed and as several of the freedom fighters in these countries had freedom fighters in these countries had freedom fighters in these countries had pointed out a lot of the locals had died pointed out a lot of the locals had died pointed out a lot of the locals had died for those causes only to find out after for those causes only to find out after for those causes only to find out after the war that it didn't apply to them it the war that it didn't apply to them it the war that it didn't apply to them it was a racial thing and even in this

was a racial thing and even in this was a racial thing and even in this conflict there's going to be exceptions conflict there's going to be exceptions conflict there's going to be exceptions for Colonial peoples when the for Colonial peoples when the for Colonial peoples when the high-minded sentiments are trotted out high-minded sentiments are trotted out high-minded sentiments are trotted out again is the reason why we fight in this again is the reason why we fight in this again is the reason why we fight in this case as Tolen points out there were a case as Tolen points out there were a case as Tolen points out there were a lot of people in countries in Asia who lot of people in countries in Asia who lot of people in countries in Asia who were aren't happy to see anybody were aren't happy to see anybody were aren't happy to see anybody punching their colonial Masters in the punching their colonial Masters in the punching their colonial Masters in the face even if they didn't like those face even if they didn't like those face even if they didn't like those people so people so people so much if you wanted to look at this as a much if you wanted to look at this as a much if you wanted to look at this as a strategic War gamer you know the way I strategic War gamer you know the way I strategic War gamer you know the way I like to do these things and you try to like to do these things and you try to like to do these things and you try to figure out if you're Japan how you ever figure out if you're Japan how you ever figure out if you're Japan how you ever win I mean the victory conditions for win I mean the victory conditions for win I mean the victory conditions for Japan I mean only Italy of the major Japan I mean only Italy of the major Japan I mean only Italy of the major players seems harder to me but they hook players seems harder to me but they hook players seems harder to me but they hook their wag into Nazi Germany Japan's a their wag into Nazi Germany Japan's a their wag into Nazi Germany Japan's a long way away from anybody the only way long way away from anybody the only way long way away from anybody the only way they can win is to roll like a double they can win is to roll like a double they can win is to roll like a double zero on the percentile dice but a double zero on the percentile dice but a double zero on the percentile dice but a double zero is this weird possibility that the zero is this weird possibility that the zero is this weird possibility that the you know what they're calling the you know what they're calling the you know what they're calling the greater East Asia Co Prosperity sphere greater East Asia Co Prosperity sphere greater East Asia Co Prosperity sphere that that actually works even though a that that actually works even though a that that actually works even though a lot of the cynical people behind it you lot of the cynical people behind it you lot of the cynical people behind it you know don't even want it to work but in know don't even want it to work but in know don't even want it to work but in in this eye imagine if you could somehow in this eye imagine if you could somehow in this eye imagine if you could somehow free Asia and be sort of the boss people free Asia and be sort of the boss people free Asia and be sort of the boss people of it well all of a sudden you open up of it well all of a sudden you open up of it well all of a sudden you open up all kinds of possibilities that aren't all kinds of possibilities that aren't all kinds of possibilities that aren't there otherwise but this is why there otherwise but this is why there otherwise but this is why throughout this throughout this throughout this situation even when the Japanese are situation even when the Japanese are situation even when the Japanese are undercutting this message of Asia for undercutting this message of Asia for undercutting this message of Asia for the Asians by raping and pillaging and the Asians by raping and pillaging and the Asians by raping and pillaging and doing all kinds of horrible things to doing all kinds of horrible things to doing all kinds of horrible things to other Asians the idea has a lot of other Asians the idea has a lot of other Asians the idea has a lot of appeal and sometimes you will run into appeal and sometimes you will run into appeal and sometimes you will run into quotes from famous people uh Gandhi is

quotes from famous people uh Gandhi is quotes from famous people uh Gandhi is one of the mandes Gandhi that make him one of the mandes Gandhi that make him one of the mandes Gandhi that make him look like a Nazi sympathizer you know look like a Nazi sympathizer you know look like a Nazi sympathizer you know it's taken out of context the context it's taken out of context the context it's taken out of context the context that needs to be added back for to make that needs to be added back for to make that needs to be added back for to make some sense is this idea that oh yeah the some sense is this idea that oh yeah the some sense is this idea that oh yeah the Nazis are bad but we didn't see the Nazis are bad but we didn't see the Nazis are bad but we didn't see the colonial oppressor is all that great colonial oppressor is all that great colonial oppressor is all that great either and the really bad guy was doing either and the really bad guy was doing either and the really bad guy was doing something that weakened our local bad something that weakened our local bad something that weakened our local bad guy and that was a good you know the guy and that was a good you know the guy and that was a good you know the enemy of my enemy is my friend the point enemy of my enemy is my friend the point enemy of my enemy is my friend the point is is that there are other ways to look is is that there are other ways to look is is that there are other ways to look at this and if you're trying to look at at this and if you're trying to look at at this and if you're trying to look at it from a grand strategy point of view it from a grand strategy point of view it from a grand strategy point of view it's like what was always said about the it's like what was always said about the it's like what was always said about the great mistake and the inability of the great mistake and the inability of the great mistake and the inability of the Nazis to capitalize on some of these Nazis to capitalize on some of these Nazis to capitalize on some of these peoples that they took over eventually peoples that they took over eventually peoples that they took over eventually when War would break out in the Soviet when War would break out in the Soviet when War would break out in the Soviet Union Union Union because they could have come in there as because they could have come in there as because they could have come in there as liberators and they were welcomed by the liberators and they were welcomed by the liberators and they were welcomed by the locals as liberators they could have locals as liberators they could have locals as liberators they could have been the great freers of the people been the great freers of the people been the great freers of the people under communist domination but because under communist domination but because under communist domination but because of their racial theories and their of their racial theories and their of their racial theories and their harshness and whatnot they ended up harshness and whatnot they ended up harshness and whatnot they ended up turning a lot of those people against turning a lot of those people against turning a lot of those people against them the Japanese didn't have those them the Japanese didn't have those them the Japanese didn't have those theories theoretically standing in the theories theoretically standing in the theories theoretically standing in the way they could have freed Asia and what way they could have freed Asia and what way they could have freed Asia and what would that have allowed them to do their would that have allowed them to do their would that have allowed them to do their problem of course is that they sort of problem of course is that they sort of problem of course is that they sort of wanted to take Asia while freeing it wanted to take Asia while freeing it wanted to take Asia while freeing it burn down the village in order to save burn down the village in order to save burn down the village in order to save it uh keep China while somehow getting it uh keep China while somehow getting it uh keep China while somehow getting rid of the responsibility of fighting in rid of the responsibility of fighting in rid of the responsibility of fighting in it and policing it and expand into other it and policing it and expand into other it and policing it and expand into other territories even though we are totally territories even though we are totally territories even though we are totally tied down in China once again it boggles tied down in China once again it boggles tied down in China once again it boggles the mind looking at it from the

the mind looking at it from the the mind looking at it from the perspective of somebody sitting on the perspective of somebody sitting on the perspective of somebody sitting on the sidelines now but Japan obviously has sidelines now but Japan obviously has sidelines now but Japan obviously has its hands full and yet the real debate its hands full and yet the real debate its hands full and yet the real debate for it in 1940 is uh can we get for it in 1940 is uh can we get for it in 1940 is uh can we get something else and as we said all of a something else and as we said all of a something else and as we said all of a sudden the Soviet Union seems like a sudden the Soviet Union seems like a sudden the Soviet Union seems like a little bit too steep of a hill to climb little bit too steep of a hill to climb little bit too steep of a hill to climb right now so after they Ally with the right now so after they Ally with the right now so after they Ally with the Nazis or really right around the same Nazis or really right around the same Nazis or really right around the same time they're able to arm twist is a good time they're able to arm twist is a good time they're able to arm twist is a good way to put it leenon is another way the way to put it leenon is another way the way to put it leenon is another way the uh puppet French government that the uh puppet French government that the uh puppet French government that the Germans have put into place after they Germans have put into place after they Germans have put into place after they conquered France and move militarily conquered France and move militarily conquered France and move militarily into what's now Northern Vietnam a piece into what's now Northern Vietnam a piece into what's now Northern Vietnam a piece of French of French of French Indochina this is kind of the spark that Indochina this is kind of the spark that Indochina this is kind of the spark that starts the dynamic that leads now kind starts the dynamic that leads now kind starts the dynamic that leads now kind of very clearly and straightforwardly of very clearly and straightforwardly of very clearly and straightforwardly lead a war uh it's a chicken and an egg lead a war uh it's a chicken and an egg lead a war uh it's a chicken and an egg thing because uh you will get the thing because uh you will get the thing because uh you will get the Japanese folk who will say two things Japanese folk who will say two things Japanese folk who will say two things one uh this is just an attempt to shut one uh this is just an attempt to shut one uh this is just an attempt to shut down another one of these leaky areas down another one of these leaky areas down another one of these leaky areas where support is coming in for the where support is coming in for the where support is coming in for the Chinese and everybody wants us to wind Chinese and everybody wants us to wind Chinese and everybody wants us to wind up this War in China well we can't do up this War in China well we can't do up this War in China well we can't do that if these supplies keep coming in that if these supplies keep coming in that if these supplies keep coming in right we're just trying to do what you right we're just trying to do what you right we're just trying to do what you want us to do the other thing though is want us to do the other thing though is want us to do the other thing though is that if they're going to have their raw that if they're going to have their raw that if they're going to have their raw materials cut off they're looking for materials cut off they're looking for materials cut off they're looking for ways to supplement that and one of the ways to supplement that and one of the ways to supplement that and one of the ways is to take the ones that are nearby ways is to take the ones that are nearby ways is to take the ones that are nearby and unlike you know anything that might and unlike you know anything that might and unlike you know anything that might be up in the Soviet Union these are be up in the Soviet Union these are be up in the Soviet Union these are hardly well-defended at all and simply hardly well-defended at all and simply hardly well-defended at all and simply by by by using bullying diplomacy the Japanese using bullying diplomacy the Japanese using bullying diplomacy the Japanese occupy the northern part of French occupy the northern part of French occupy the northern part of French Indochina the reaction on the US and Indochina the reaction on the US and Indochina the reaction on the US and Britain and the Netherlands part is to Britain and the Netherlands part is to Britain and the Netherlands part is to ratchet up the

ratchet up the ratchet up the sanctions now the next big thing that sanctions now the next big thing that sanctions now the next big thing that happens that really influences this happens that really influences this happens that really influences this story is that uh just about a little bit story is that uh just about a little bit story is that uh just about a little bit over a year from when the world is over a year from when the world is over a year from when the world is turned upside down and the Germans take turned upside down and the Germans take turned upside down and the Germans take France and Western Europe the Germans France and Western Europe the Germans France and Western Europe the Germans turn the world upside down again and in turn the world upside down again and in turn the world upside down again and in an even more shocking fashion in June an even more shocking fashion in June an even more shocking fashion in June 1941 the Axis powers in Europe launch a 1941 the Axis powers in Europe launch a 1941 the Axis powers in Europe launch a surprise attack against the Soviet surprise attack against the Soviet surprise attack against the Soviet Union to say that sounds ridiculous Union to say that sounds ridiculous Union to say that sounds ridiculous because when you're launching an attack because when you're launching an attack because when you're launching an attack that is several times the size of that is several times the size of that is several times the size of Napoleon's invasion of Russia in the Napoleon's invasion of Russia in the Napoleon's invasion of Russia in the early 1800 with the Grand Army I think early 1800 with the Grand Army I think early 1800 with the Grand Army I think it was 500,000 guys in the Grand Army it was 500,000 guys in the Grand Army it was 500,000 guys in the Grand Army multiple Nations several times that and multiple Nations several times that and multiple Nations several times that and on a front that stretches from like the on a front that stretches from like the on a front that stretches from like the width of a continent how the hell does width of a continent how the hell does width of a continent how the hell does that stay secret well there were plenty that stay secret well there were plenty that stay secret well there were plenty of warnings but one way or another it of warnings but one way or another it of warnings but one way or another it had the same effect as a surprise attack had the same effect as a surprise attack had the same effect as a surprise attack and initially and very quickly the uh and initially and very quickly the uh and initially and very quickly the uh Vermont especially but the axis armies Vermont especially but the axis armies Vermont especially but the axis armies in general appear to be having the same in general appear to be having the same in general appear to be having the same kind of success that Germans had blowing kind of success that Germans had blowing kind of success that Germans had blowing through France the year before again and through France the year before again and through France the year before again and they are surrounding and annihilating they are surrounding and annihilating they are surrounding and annihilating not Red Army units but red not Red Army units but red not Red Army units but red armies and once again the rest of the armies and once again the rest of the armies and once again the rest of the world is looking on in shock and trying world is looking on in shock and trying world is looking on in shock and trying to reassess what the heck this to reassess what the heck this to reassess what the heck this means this is the last strand of

means this is the last strand of means this is the last strand of Japanese foreign policy we have to weave Japanese foreign policy we have to weave Japanese foreign policy we have to weave into this story because if you're a into this story because if you're a into this story because if you're a conservatively oriented person like I am conservatively oriented person like I am conservatively oriented person like I am and like many of the Japanese leaders and like many of the Japanese leaders and like many of the Japanese leaders were too they're looking just like I were too they're looking just like I were too they're looking just like I would be looking to thinking they have would be looking to thinking they have would be looking to thinking they have their hands full with China yet there's their hands full with China yet there's their hands full with China yet there's this impetus to not miss the bus as one this impetus to not miss the bus as one this impetus to not miss the bus as one of the sayings of the time were don't of the sayings of the time were don't of the sayings of the time were don't miss the bus a golden opportunity is the miss the bus a golden opportunity is the miss the bus a golden opportunity is the way another person put it that these way another person put it that these way another person put it that these changes in the global balance of power changes in the global balance of power changes in the global balance of power offer there's a decent case to be made offer there's a decent case to be made offer there's a decent case to be made that Japanese Forum policy since they that Japanese Forum policy since they that Japanese Forum policy since they rejoin the rest of the world in the rejoin the rest of the world in the rejoin the rest of the world in the latter part of the 19th century has latter part of the 19th century has latter part of the 19th century has always had a Keen Eye for opportunity I always had a Keen Eye for opportunity I always had a Keen Eye for opportunity I mean you never do any better than they mean you never do any better than they mean you never do any better than they did in the first world war that they did in the first world war that they did in the first world war that they gained so much for almost nothing but gained so much for almost nothing but gained so much for almost nothing but they were very opportunistic they were they were very opportunistic they were they were very opportunistic they were allied with the British and the Allies allied with the British and the Allies allied with the British and the Allies remember and they gained mightily but remember and they gained mightily but remember and they gained mightily but they're trying to figure out what the they're trying to figure out what the they're trying to figure out what the opportunistic play is here and they have opportunistic play is here and they have opportunistic play is here and they have a couple of different competing things a couple of different competing things a couple of different competing things going on competing thing number one we going on competing thing number one we going on competing thing number one we already mentioned there's quite a few already mentioned there's quite a few already mentioned there's quite a few people in the Japanese power structure people in the Japanese power structure people in the Japanese power structure that want no trouble at all with Britain that want no trouble at all with Britain that want no trouble at all with Britain and the United States traditionally it's and the United States traditionally it's and the United States traditionally it's the Navy that uh is most credited and the Navy that uh is most credited and the Navy that uh is most credited and Churchill often you know would almost Churchill often you know would almost Churchill often you know would almost sympathetically say the Navy didn't want sympathetically say the Navy didn't want sympathetically say the Navy didn't want this well the Navy didn't want it cuz this well the Navy didn't want it cuz this well the Navy didn't want it cuz the Navy was going to have to be the one the Navy was going to have to be the one the Navy was going to have to be the one fighting it and they knew that the fighting it and they knew that the fighting it and they knew that the British and the American fleets were the British and the American fleets were the British and the American fleets were the two largest fleets in the world and two largest fleets in the world and two largest fleets in the world and you'd be fighting them combined in a war you'd be fighting them combined in a war you'd be fighting them combined in a war the Army could puff out its chest and the Army could puff out its chest and the Army could puff out its chest and make all sorts of Brave statements all

make all sorts of Brave statements all make all sorts of Brave statements all it wanted to they weren't going to be it wanted to they weren't going to be it wanted to they weren't going to be handling a lot of the shooting action handling a lot of the shooting action handling a lot of the shooting action the Navy the Navy the Navy was but there's also the two other was but there's also the two other was but there's also the two other elements that we mentioned earlier that elements that we mentioned earlier that elements that we mentioned earlier that need to be pointed out are still in play need to be pointed out are still in play need to be pointed out are still in play here and it's crazy the first one is the here and it's crazy the first one is the here and it's crazy the first one is the mid-level Military Officers are still mid-level Military Officers are still mid-level Military Officers are still having an impact these Colonels and having an impact these Colonels and having an impact these Colonels and people of these sorts of rank who don't people of these sorts of rank who don't people of these sorts of rank who don't have any of the responsibility you know have any of the responsibility you know have any of the responsibility you know of having to live with the ramifications of having to live with the ramifications of having to live with the ramifications of the decisions they push they can just of the decisions they push they can just of the decisions they push they can just in an aggressive and almost pugnacious in an aggressive and almost pugnacious in an aggressive and almost pugnacious manner aggressively push forward with manner aggressively push forward with manner aggressively push forward with their policies and for some reason their their policies and for some reason their their policies and for some reason their superiors tend tend to be a little bit superiors tend tend to be a little bit superiors tend tend to be a little bit lenient or LAX or tend to defer it puts lenient or LAX or tend to defer it puts lenient or LAX or tend to defer it puts a lot of pressure though uh towards a lot of pressure though uh towards a lot of pressure though uh towards aggressive stances that shouldn't aggressive stances that shouldn't aggressive stances that shouldn't otherwise be there the other thing of otherwise be there the other thing of otherwise be there the other thing of course that's exerting an influence in course that's exerting an influence in course that's exerting an influence in that direction and that must play into that direction and that must play into that direction and that must play into the head of anybody that thinks wait a the head of anybody that thinks wait a the head of anybody that thinks wait a minute we need to back down now this is minute we need to back down now this is minute we need to back down now this is going in a very negative direction is going in a very negative direction is going in a very negative direction is the fact that recent Japanese history the fact that recent Japanese history the fact that recent Japanese history demonstrates that you're likely to get demonstrates that you're likely to get demonstrates that you're likely to get somebody killing you if you try a move somebody killing you if you try a move somebody killing you if you try a move like that didn't we say it was only a like that didn't we say it was only a like that didn't we say it was only a few years before some historians were few years before some historians were few years before some historians were describing the Japanese government as a describing the Japanese government as a describing the Japanese government as a government by assassination that's still government by assassination that's still government by assassination that's still a problem and if you're a problem and if you're a problem and if you're to well let's just say nons super to well let's just say nons super to well let's just say nons super Patriot you could find yourself shot or Patriot you could find yourself shot or Patriot you could find yourself shot or your head cut or any number of other your head cut or any number of other your head cut or any number of other things that were happening uh during things that were happening uh during things that were happening uh during this period and there were certainly this period and there were certainly this period and there were certainly lots of threats and and being anything

lots of threats and and being anything lots of threats and and being anything other than a super Patriot at this time other than a super Patriot at this time other than a super Patriot at this time period is to open yourself up to period is to open yourself up to period is to open yourself up to suspicion and maybe imprisonment so suspicion and maybe imprisonment so suspicion and maybe imprisonment so let's remember the climate these people let's remember the climate these people let's remember the climate these people people are operating in but even the people are operating in but even the people are operating in but even the Prime Minister of Japan during this time Prime Minister of Japan during this time Prime Minister of Japan during this time period uh you know he aggressively period uh you know he aggressively period uh you know he aggressively sometimes makes public statements but he sometimes makes public statements but he sometimes makes public statements but he does not want a war with Britain and the does not want a war with Britain and the does not want a war with Britain and the United States and France and the emperor United States and France and the emperor United States and France and the emperor apparently doesn't want that either so apparently doesn't want that either so apparently doesn't want that either so how do you get it again well this golden how do you get it again well this golden how do you get it again well this golden opportunity this don't miss the bus opportunity this don't miss the bus opportunity this don't miss the bus moment that this change in the global moment that this change in the global moment that this change in the global situation seems to have influenced now situation seems to have influenced now situation seems to have influenced now that the Vermont is um cutting through that the Vermont is um cutting through that the Vermont is um cutting through the Western regions of the Soviet Union the Western regions of the Soviet Union the Western regions of the Soviet Union is to maybe take the rest of French is to maybe take the rest of French is to maybe take the rest of French Indochina and start making a few public Indochina and start making a few public Indochina and start making a few public statements to the effect that you know statements to the effect that you know statements to the effect that you know maybe some deal is going to have to be maybe some deal is going to have to be maybe some deal is going to have to be reached for the supplies we need or we reached for the supplies we need or we reached for the supplies we need or we might have to you know maybe move South might have to you know maybe move South might have to you know maybe move South some more and so right around the time some more and so right around the time some more and so right around the time the Germans attack the Soviet Union the the Germans attack the Soviet Union the the Germans attack the Soviet Union the Japanese again not quite bloodlessly but Japanese again not quite bloodlessly but Japanese again not quite bloodlessly but mostly bloodlessly sort of move into the mostly bloodlessly sort of move into the mostly bloodlessly sort of move into the rest of French Indochina La Cambodia rest of French Indochina La Cambodia rest of French Indochina La Cambodia Vietnam and this is the Line in the Sand Vietnam and this is the Line in the Sand Vietnam and this is the Line in the Sand for places like the United States not for places like the United States not for places like the United States not just because they had been trying to get just because they had been trying to get just because they had been trying to get the Japanese to move in the other the Japanese to move in the other the Japanese to move in the other direction and it's like a slap in the direction and it's like a slap in the direction and it's like a slap in the face when they go the opposite way but face when they go the opposite way but face when they go the opposite way but also because as more modern historians also because as more modern historians also because as more modern historians have pointed out the raw materials that have pointed out the raw materials that have pointed out the raw materials that they're actually getting their hands on they're actually getting their hands on they're actually getting their hands on in this area are raw materials that in this area are raw materials that in this area are raw materials that places like the US need as well so now places like the US need as well so now places like the US need as well so now it's not just about cutting Japan off it's not just about cutting Japan off it's not just about cutting Japan off it's about Japan cutting the United

it's about Japan cutting the United it's about Japan cutting the United States off from things they need this is States off from things they need this is States off from things they need this is a a heavyduty rubber area for example so a a heavyduty rubber area for example so a a heavyduty rubber area for example so this is when the serus sanctions start this is when the serus sanctions start this is when the serus sanctions start and it's funny because the negotiating and it's funny because the negotiating and it's funny because the negotiating position originally starts somewhere in position originally starts somewhere in position originally starts somewhere in the area of you need to get out of the area of you need to get out of the area of you need to get out of French Indo China which is something French Indo China which is something French Indo China which is something that's kind of possible but eventually that's kind of possible but eventually that's kind of possible but eventually it will move into the area of no you it will move into the area of no you it will move into the area of no you need to tell us when you're getting out need to tell us when you're getting out need to tell us when you're getting out of China entirely and it's got to be of China entirely and it's got to be of China entirely and it's got to be relatively soon this sounds like a relatively soon this sounds like a relatively soon this sounds like a nuanced position but it's pretty easy to nuanced position but it's pretty easy to nuanced position but it's pretty easy to explain once again if you go back to our explain once again if you go back to our explain once again if you go back to our Vietnam War analogy and imagine that Vietnam War analogy and imagine that Vietnam War analogy and imagine that together the Soviet Union and China together the Soviet Union and China together the Soviet Union and China during that period the two other powers during that period the two other powers during that period the two other powers that might be considered to be great that might be considered to be great that might be considered to be great powers that could counterbalance us powers that could counterbalance us powers that could counterbalance us strength if they had said to the United strength if they had said to the United strength if they had said to the United States in 1967 you know when the Vietnam States in 1967 you know when the Vietnam States in 1967 you know when the Vietnam war is going I mean it's a long long war is going I mean it's a long long war is going I mean it's a long long slog towards even defeat at that point slog towards even defeat at that point slog towards even defeat at that point if they had said listen uh you got to if they had said listen uh you got to if they had said listen uh you got to get out of here give us a timetable for get out of here give us a timetable for get out of here give us a timetable for when you're getting out and the when you're getting out and the when you're getting out and the timetable can't be like forever uh maybe timetable can't be like forever uh maybe timetable can't be like forever uh maybe a year right if the United States leaves a year right if the United States leaves a year right if the United States leaves Vietnam in 1968 it's the same as saying Vietnam in 1968 it's the same as saying Vietnam in 1968 it's the same as saying you're giving up and losing the war you're giving up and losing the war you're giving up and losing the war because the war is far from Over the because the war is far from Over the because the war is far from Over the American position on China is we need a American position on China is we need a American position on China is we need a timetable for withdrawal and it's got to timetable for withdrawal and it's got to timetable for withdrawal and it's got to be soon doesn't have to be in five be soon doesn't have to be in five be soon doesn't have to be in five minutes we understand the Practical minutes we understand the Practical minutes we understand the Practical limitations but it's got to be soon it's limitations but it's got to be soon it's limitations but it's got to be soon it's it may be designed to be too soon for it may be designed to be too soon for it may be designed to be too soon for the Japanese to do anything that they the Japanese to do anything that they the Japanese to do anything that they would consider to be winning and then go would consider to be winning and then go would consider to be winning and then go home this is the intervention right get

home this is the intervention right get home this is the intervention right get out of China or we're going to cut off out of China or we're going to cut off out of China or we're going to cut off your ability to do what you're doing your ability to do what you're doing your ability to do what you're doing anymore anymore anymore more this is the fuse being lit now um more this is the fuse being lit now um more this is the fuse being lit now um you know Winston Churchill I'd like to you know Winston Churchill I'd like to you know Winston Churchill I'd like to quote Churchill for this story because quote Churchill for this story because quote Churchill for this story because he's a participant in the story he has he's a participant in the story he has he's a participant in the story he has his own way of viewing things and he's his own way of viewing things and he's his own way of viewing things and he's he's not unbiased by any stretch of the he's not unbiased by any stretch of the he's not unbiased by any stretch of the imagination but he's interesting on the imagination but he's interesting on the imagination but he's interesting on the Japanese because he kind of likes the Japanese because he kind of likes the Japanese because he kind of likes the Japanese and he admires their Marshal Japanese and he admires their Marshal Japanese and he admires their Marshal culture and when Churchill was sort of culture and when Churchill was sort of culture and when Churchill was sort of in his formative stages the British and in his formative stages the British and in his formative stages the British and the Japanese were allies also as a the Japanese were allies also as a the Japanese were allies also as a colonialist himself as a as a Empire guy colonialist himself as a as a Empire guy colonialist himself as a as a Empire guy himself he can understand the desire and himself he can understand the desire and himself he can understand the desire and the feel uh that colonies are not the feel uh that colonies are not the feel uh that colonies are not inherently an evil thing when he talks inherently an evil thing when he talks inherently an evil thing when he talks about the Japanese and of course he about the Japanese and of course he about the Japanese and of course he dictated or um recorded into a machine dictated or um recorded into a machine dictated or um recorded into a machine these histories that he wrote about the these histories that he wrote about the these histories that he wrote about the conflict so they sound like him they conflict so they sound like him they conflict so they sound like him they sound like Churchill talking to you but sound like Churchill talking to you but sound like Churchill talking to you but he sort of encapsulates what happens he sort of encapsulates what happens he sort of encapsulates what happens here in his own way uh with a little here in his own way uh with a little here in his own way uh with a little Sympathy for the Japanese Winston Sympathy for the Japanese Winston Sympathy for the Japanese Winston Churchill writes quote Churchill writes quote Churchill writes quote the DraStic application of economic the DraStic application of economic the DraStic application of economic sanctions in July sanctions in July sanctions in July 1941 brought to a head the internal 1941 brought to a head the internal 1941 brought to a head the internal crisis in Japanese politics conservative crisis in Japanese politics conservative crisis in Japanese politics conservative elements were shocked and the moderate elements were shocked and the moderate elements were shocked and the moderate leaders scared the domestic Prestige of leaders scared the domestic Prestige of leaders scared the domestic Prestige of the Japanese Army is a constitutional the Japanese Army is a constitutional the Japanese Army is a constitutional factor in shaping Japanese policy was factor in shaping Japanese policy was factor in shaping Japanese policy was already involved hither to the Navy had already involved hither to the Navy had already involved hither to the Navy had exerted its restraining Force but the exerted its restraining Force but the exerted its restraining Force but the embargos which the United States Britain

embargos which the United States Britain embargos which the United States Britain and Holland had enforced cut off from and Holland had enforced cut off from and Holland had enforced cut off from Japan all supplies of oil on which the Japan all supplies of oil on which the Japan all supplies of oil on which the Navy and indeed the whole war power of Navy and indeed the whole war power of Navy and indeed the whole war power of Japan depended the Japanese Navy was at Japan depended the Japanese Navy was at Japan depended the Japanese Navy was at once forced to live on its oil reserves once forced to live on its oil reserves once forced to live on its oil reserves and at the outbreak of the Pacific War and at the outbreak of the Pacific War and at the outbreak of the Pacific War had in fact consumed four out of had in fact consumed four out of had in fact consumed four out of 18months Supply it was evident that this 18months Supply it was evident that this 18months Supply it was evident that this was a strangle hold and that the choice was a strangle hold and that the choice was a strangle hold and that the choice before them was either for Japan to before them was either for Japan to before them was either for Japan to reach an agreement with the United reach an agreement with the United reach an agreement with the United States or go to war the American States or go to war the American States or go to war the American requirements involve Japanese withdrawal requirements involve Japanese withdrawal requirements involve Japanese withdrawal not only from their new aggression in not only from their new aggression in not only from their new aggression in Indochina but from China itself where Indochina but from China itself where Indochina but from China itself where they had already been fighting at heavy they had already been fighting at heavy they had already been fighting at heavy expense for so expense for so expense for so long this was he writes a rightful but a long this was he writes a rightful but a long this was he writes a rightful but a hard demand in these circumstances the hard demand in these circumstances the hard demand in these circumstances the Navy Associated itself with the Army in Navy Associated itself with the Army in Navy Associated itself with the Army in the policy of War if an acceptable the policy of War if an acceptable the policy of War if an acceptable diplomatic agreement could not be diplomatic agreement could not be diplomatic agreement could not be obtained end obtained end obtained end quote he puts forward the old idea by quote he puts forward the old idea by quote he puts forward the old idea by the way that the Navy doesn't want the the way that the Navy doesn't want the the way that the Navy doesn't want the war but because of the sanctions and the war but because of the sanctions and the war but because of the sanctions and the cutting off of fuel supply slowly but cutting off of fuel supply slowly but cutting off of fuel supply slowly but surely well maybe not even that slowly surely well maybe not even that slowly surely well maybe not even that slowly the Navy begins to move toward the Army the Navy begins to move toward the Army the Navy begins to move toward the Army position on these things a more Hardline position on these things a more Hardline position on these things a more Hardline anti- anglo-american anti- anglo-american anti- anglo-american position one Admiral points out to the position one Admiral points out to the position one Admiral points out to the government that the fleet is burning 400 government that the fleet is burning 400 government that the fleet is burning 400 tons of oil an hour the overall military tons of oil an hour the overall military tons of oil an hour the overall military need is something like 12,000 tons a day need is something like 12,000 tons a day need is something like 12,000 tons a day another official or Admiral it's another official or Admiral it's another official or Admiral it's disputed is supposed to have told the

disputed is supposed to have told the disputed is supposed to have told the government that this is like a patient government that this is like a patient government that this is like a patient who's going to die without surgery now who's going to die without surgery now who's going to die without surgery now he still may die even with the surgery he still may die even with the surgery he still may die even with the surgery but if you don't give him the surgery but if you don't give him the surgery but if you don't give him the surgery his Death is certain so in other words his Death is certain so in other words his Death is certain so in other words showing the position that some of the showing the position that some of the showing the position that some of the Japanese now think they find themselves Japanese now think they find themselves Japanese now think they find themselves in one of certain death unless risky and in one of certain death unless risky and in one of certain death unless risky and still you know potentially still you know potentially still you know potentially fatal counter measures are fatal counter measures are fatal counter measures are taken now I should point out that while taken now I should point out that while taken now I should point out that while some people say and uh Francis Pike is some people say and uh Francis Pike is some people say and uh Francis Pike is pretty vifer that every one of these pretty vifer that every one of these pretty vifer that every one of these Roosevelt people knew that once you put Roosevelt people knew that once you put Roosevelt people knew that once you put oil uh on the chopping block that this oil uh on the chopping block that this oil uh on the chopping block that this basically meant the Japanese were going basically meant the Japanese were going basically meant the Japanese were going to go to war but in his um a modern to go to war but in his um a modern to go to war but in his um a modern history of Japan historian James mlan history of Japan historian James mlan history of Japan historian James mlan says that Secretary of State Cordell says that Secretary of State Cordell says that Secretary of State Cordell Hull didn't see it that way he really Hull didn't see it that way he really Hull didn't see it that way he really thought you could get the Japanese to thought you could get the Japanese to thought you could get the Japanese to see reason through something like this see reason through something like this see reason through something like this in other words if true this was the in other words if true this was the in other words if true this was the peaceful attempt right between the two peaceful attempt right between the two peaceful attempt right between the two World Wars attitude sort of attempt to World Wars attitude sort of attempt to World Wars attitude sort of attempt to get another country to do the right get another country to do the right get another country to do the right thing and not just the right thing for thing and not just the right thing for thing and not just the right thing for you but in the long run the right thing you but in the long run the right thing you but in the long run the right thing for them mlan says for them mlan says for them mlan says quote as the situation in China worsened quote as the situation in China worsened quote as the situation in China worsened after after after 1937 Secretary of State Hull became the 1937 Secretary of State Hull became the 1937 Secretary of State Hull became the primary proponent of waging an economic primary proponent of waging an economic primary proponent of waging an economic Cold War against Japan in his view Cold War against Japan in his view Cold War against Japan in his view Japan's Reliance on the American market Japan's Reliance on the American market Japan's Reliance on the American market for strategic goods made the smaller

for strategic goods made the smaller for strategic goods made the smaller Nation particularly vulnerable to Nation particularly vulnerable to Nation particularly vulnerable to economic sanctions and the systematic economic sanctions and the systematic economic sanctions and the systematic application of ever greater amounts of application of ever greater amounts of application of ever greater amounts of pressure would at some point he believed pressure would at some point he believed pressure would at some point he believed bring the Japanese to their bring the Japanese to their bring the Japanese to their senses the Secretary of State realized senses the Secretary of State realized senses the Secretary of State realized that he had to be careful about his that he had to be careful about his that he had to be careful about his calibrations he did not wish to push calibrations he did not wish to push calibrations he did not wish to push Japan into a shooting war with the Japan into a shooting war with the Japan into a shooting war with the United States but he did mean to United States but he did mean to United States but he did mean to convince the country's leaders about the convince the country's leaders about the convince the country's leaders about the Folly of playing a high stakes game in Folly of playing a high stakes game in Folly of playing a high stakes game in which the United States could which the United States could which the United States could continually up the economic ante at some continually up the economic ante at some continually up the economic ante at some point Hull hoped moderates would return point Hull hoped moderates would return point Hull hoped moderates would return to power in Tokyo Japan would fold its to power in Tokyo Japan would fold its to power in Tokyo Japan would fold its hand and peace would be possible end hand and peace would be possible end hand and peace would be possible end quote this is why we had brought up quote this is why we had brought up quote this is why we had brought up though the history of Japan from before though the history of Japan from before though the history of Japan from before this era to sort of set up the context this era to sort of set up the context this era to sort of set up the context in let's just call it the national in let's just call it the national in let's just call it the national psyche of Japan during this time period psyche of Japan during this time period psyche of Japan during this time period and of course I don't pretend to know and of course I don't pretend to know and of course I don't pretend to know about it it's something that everybody about it it's something that everybody about it it's something that everybody talks about the fact that the Japanese talks about the fact that the Japanese talks about the fact that the Japanese have what did call have what did call have what did call it a Rainman like laundry list of it a Rainman like laundry list of it a Rainman like laundry list of grievances places where they think grievances places where they think grievances places where they think they've been shafted by the rest of the they've been shafted by the rest of the they've been shafted by the rest of the International Community where they feel International Community where they feel International Community where they feel like they've been treated second class like they've been treated second class like they've been treated second class and that some of this is racially and that some of this is racially and that some of this is racially oriented and in the minds of a lot of oriented and in the minds of a lot of oriented and in the minds of a lot of those people this just looks like the those people this just looks like the those people this just looks like the biggest baddest example of the same biggest baddest example of the same biggest baddest example of the same thing over again what are you supposed thing over again what are you supposed thing over again what are you supposed to do about that and certainly asking to do about that and certainly asking to do about that and certainly asking the Japanese to give up more more than

the Japanese to give up more more than the Japanese to give up more more than in any of these previous cases because in any of these previous cases because in any of these previous cases because this War in China has already cost this War in China has already cost this War in China has already cost something like 100,000 Japanese lives something like 100,000 Japanese lives something like 100,000 Japanese lives untold amounts of money effort the untold amounts of money effort the untold amounts of money effort the intense work of a generation of Japanese intense work of a generation of Japanese intense work of a generation of Japanese Statesmen what's the likelihood in Statesmen what's the likelihood in Statesmen what's the likelihood in reality of Japan choosing anything other reality of Japan choosing anything other reality of Japan choosing anything other than war in this situation that's why so than war in this situation that's why so than war in this situation that's why so many people have suggested that it's an many people have suggested that it's an many people have suggested that it's an ultimatum by the time the United States ultimatum by the time the United States ultimatum by the time the United States is talking about get out of China or is talking about get out of China or is talking about get out of China or were cutting off your raw materials and were cutting off your raw materials and were cutting off your raw materials and oil the Japanese certainly saw it that oil the Japanese certainly saw it that oil the Japanese certainly saw it that way um his story of Marius B Jensen way um his story of Marius B Jensen way um his story of Marius B Jensen though was interesting he pointed out though was interesting he pointed out though was interesting he pointed out that it's not true and it's not true that it's not true and it's not true that it's not true and it's not true because all of the ideas that made this because all of the ideas that made this because all of the ideas that made this look like an ultimatum were part of a of look like an ultimatum were part of a of look like an ultimatum were part of a of a Japanese a Japanese a Japanese construct they created this construct they created this construct they created this artificial time deadline that put them artificial time deadline that put them artificial time deadline that put them behind the eightball if you ignore the behind the eightball if you ignore the behind the eightball if you ignore the time deadline you could have months time deadline you could have months time deadline you could have months maybe even longer to negotiate but maybe even longer to negotiate but maybe even longer to negotiate but because you want to keep the option of because you want to keep the option of because you want to keep the option of going to war going to war going to war open there's as much of an artificial open there's as much of an artificial open there's as much of an artificial deadline limiting the time negotiators deadline limiting the time negotiators deadline limiting the time negotiators have to solve this problem some other have to solve this problem some other have to solve this problem some other way as they had in the first world war way as they had in the first world war way as they had in the first world war and the first world war was all about and the first world war was all about and the first world war was all about you know mobilization timetables and War you know mobilization timetables and War you know mobilization timetables and War plans that required precise you know plans that required precise you know plans that required precise you know troop movements and people getting on troop movements and people getting on troop movements and people getting on schedule to places otherwise the whole schedule to places otherwise the whole schedule to places otherwise the whole War could go down so you know that War could go down so you know that War could go down so you know that limited the time people had to do limited the time people had to do limited the time people had to do anything other than carry out the plans

anything other than carry out the plans anything other than carry out the plans in this conflict it's the fact that the in this conflict it's the fact that the in this conflict it's the fact that the Japanese Fleet is burning 400 tons of Japanese Fleet is burning 400 tons of Japanese Fleet is burning 400 tons of oil an hour and the fleet isn't the only oil an hour and the fleet isn't the only oil an hour and the fleet isn't the only part of the Japanese military or the part of the Japanese military or the part of the Japanese military or the larger Japanese society that needs fuel larger Japanese society that needs fuel larger Japanese society that needs fuel it's worse than that though and it's it's worse than that though and it's it's worse than that though and it's easy to forget Francis Pike describes easy to forget Francis Pike describes easy to forget Francis Pike describes something that sounds benign you know we something that sounds benign you know we something that sounds benign you know we can all understand the oil question but can all understand the oil question but can all understand the oil question but what about the the financial squeezing what about the the financial squeezing what about the the financial squeezing that's involved here and what does that that's involved here and what does that that's involved here and what does that mean he writes mean he writes mean he writes quote on the evening of 25th July 1941 quote on the evening of 25th July 1941 quote on the evening of 25th July 1941 Roosevelt signed executive order number Roosevelt signed executive order number Roosevelt signed executive order number 8832 which subjected all of Japanese 8832 which subjected all of Japanese 8832 which subjected all of Japanese monetary assets held in the United monetary assets held in the United monetary assets held in the United States to control by license the White States to control by license the White States to control by license the White House Press release stated that quote House Press release stated that quote House Press release stated that quote this measure in effect brings all this measure in effect brings all this measure in effect brings all financial and Import and Export trade financial and Import and Export trade financial and Import and Export trade transactions in which Japanese interests transactions in which Japanese interests transactions in which Japanese interests are involved under the control of the are involved under the control of the are involved under the control of the government and imposes criminal government and imposes criminal government and imposes criminal penalties for violation of the order end penalties for violation of the order end penalties for violation of the order end quote quote quote the order Pike writes extended to the order Pike writes extended to the order Pike writes extended to Japanese colonies including manuo and Japanese colonies including manuo and Japanese colonies including manuo and China to protect them from looting by China to protect them from looting by China to protect them from looting by Japan's puppet government installed in Japan's puppet government installed in Japan's puppet government installed in Nan King all assets owned 25% or more by Nan King all assets owned 25% or more by Nan King all assets owned 25% or more by Japanese interests were frozen when Wall Japanese interests were frozen when Wall Japanese interests were frozen when Wall Street opened for business on Monday Street opened for business on Monday Street opened for business on Monday 28th July the Foreign Exchange Market 28th July the Foreign Exchange Market 28th July the Foreign Exchange Market for Yen the Japanese currency simply for Yen the Japanese currency simply for Yen the Japanese currency simply disappeared Japanese dollar bonds disappeared Japanese dollar bonds disappeared Japanese dollar bonds crashed to 20 to 30% of their par value crashed to 20 to 30% of their par value crashed to 20 to 30% of their par value the Yokohama silk Exchange closed the

the Yokohama silk Exchange closed the the Yokohama silk Exchange closed the New York commodity exchange suspended New York commodity exchange suspended New York commodity exchange suspended silk Futures in effect the entire silk Futures in effect the entire silk Futures in effect the entire Japanese International payments system Japanese International payments system Japanese International payments system seized up Japan's gold held in America seized up Japan's gold held in America seized up Japan's gold held in America became immovable and unusable in South became immovable and unusable in South became immovable and unusable in South America modest amounts of gold and America modest amounts of gold and America modest amounts of gold and foreign exchange were similarly foreign exchange were similarly foreign exchange were similarly immobilized by governments that followed immobilized by governments that followed immobilized by governments that followed Roosevelt's lead caros destined for Roosevelt's lead caros destined for Roosevelt's lead caros destined for America remained stuck on Japanese Wars America remained stuck on Japanese Wars America remained stuck on Japanese Wars when Great Britain and Holland followed when Great Britain and Holland followed when Great Britain and Holland followed America's lead the Yen could only be America's lead the Yen could only be America's lead the Yen could only be used and traded within Japan's own used and traded within Japan's own used and traded within Japan's own Empire end Empire end Empire end quote another way to put that is quote another way to put that is quote another way to put that is catastrophic the Japanese are also well catastrophic the Japanese are also well catastrophic the Japanese are also well aware that this imbalance between the aware that this imbalance between the aware that this imbalance between the United States and Japan is growing every United States and Japan is growing every United States and Japan is growing every day not just because Japan's getting day not just because Japan's getting day not just because Japan's getting weaker every day but because the US is weaker every day but because the US is weaker every day but because the US is getting stronger every day in 1940 the getting stronger every day in 1940 the getting stronger every day in 1940 the US essentially starts its rearmament US essentially starts its rearmament US essentially starts its rearmament efforts and starts gearing up for war efforts and starts gearing up for war efforts and starts gearing up for war initiates the first peacetime draft in initiates the first peacetime draft in initiates the first peacetime draft in the country's history begins tripling the country's history begins tripling the country's history begins tripling budgets and spending all kinds of money budgets and spending all kinds of money budgets and spending all kinds of money that just the year before Congress would that just the year before Congress would that just the year before Congress would have laughed at the idea of have laughed at the idea of have laughed at the idea of appropriating you know with the Germans appropriating you know with the Germans appropriating you know with the Germans taking over Western Europe and being so taking over Western Europe and being so taking over Western Europe and being so dominant has a way of shocking Congress dominant has a way of shocking Congress dominant has a way of shocking Congress sometimes into making up for lost sometimes into making up for lost sometimes into making up for lost time the American system throughout most time the American system throughout most time the American system throughout most of its history just for clarification of its history just for clarification of its history just for clarification purposes has been one that's been purposes has been one that's been purposes has been one that's been somewhat suspicious of standing armies

somewhat suspicious of standing armies somewhat suspicious of standing armies and the lesson that the people who and the lesson that the people who and the lesson that the people who designed the Constitutional framework of designed the Constitutional framework of designed the Constitutional framework of the US believed that standing armies the US believed that standing armies the US believed that standing armies stood in opposition to long-term Liberty stood in opposition to long-term Liberty stood in opposition to long-term Liberty and so while the US Navy has always been and so while the US Navy has always been and so while the US Navy has always been something that's um been paid attention something that's um been paid attention something that's um been paid attention to obviously when you have two giant to obviously when you have two giant to obviously when you have two giant Moes surrounding your hemisphere it Moes surrounding your hemisphere it Moes surrounding your hemisphere it makes sense to pay attention to makes sense to pay attention to makes sense to pay attention to something that you have to spend some something that you have to spend some something that you have to spend some time in advance building you can't just time in advance building you can't just time in advance building you can't just say oh we have a war let's build a Navy say oh we have a war let's build a Navy say oh we have a war let's build a Navy usually you don't have the Navy in time usually you don't have the Navy in time usually you don't have the Navy in time to use if that's the case whereas armies to use if that's the case whereas armies to use if that's the case whereas armies in the old say Roman legion style of the in the old say Roman legion style of the in the old say Roman legion style of the Republic you can sort of build from a Republic you can sort of build from a Republic you can sort of build from a hardcore of veterans and that's what the hardcore of veterans and that's what the hardcore of veterans and that's what the US military the Army was traditionally US military the Army was traditionally US military the Army was traditionally like this these long service like this these long service like this these long service professionals but not very many of them professionals but not very many of them professionals but not very many of them that whenever war was going to happen that whenever war was going to happen that whenever war was going to happen all of a sudden you found yourself with all of a sudden you found yourself with all of a sudden you found yourself with all sorts of volunteers and dve Crocket all sorts of volunteers and dve Crocket all sorts of volunteers and dve Crocket types and Rough Riders and maybe even types and Rough Riders and maybe even types and Rough Riders and maybe even some French pirates from time to time some French pirates from time to time some French pirates from time to time whatever you needed to get the job done whatever you needed to get the job done whatever you needed to get the job done there are always enough Americans there are always enough Americans there are always enough Americans looking for a little action that you looking for a little action that you looking for a little action that you could raise enough troops without any could raise enough troops without any could raise enough troops without any sort of draft or sort of draft or sort of draft or whatever and of course when the war was whatever and of course when the war was whatever and of course when the war was over they all went home and Liberty is over they all went home and Liberty is over they all went home and Liberty is safe it should be pointed out that even safe it should be pointed out that even safe it should be pointed out that even though the United States's industrial though the United States's industrial though the United States's industrial capability had been hinted at in the capability had been hinted at in the capability had been hinted at in the first world war the US was still gearing first world war the US was still gearing first world war the US was still gearing up by the time the war ended and it was up by the time the war ended and it was up by the time the war ended and it was a us that was nowhere near as a us that was nowhere near as a us that was nowhere near as industrialized as the second world war

industrialized as the second world war industrialized as the second world war us was when Hitler and his you know us was when Hitler and his you know us was when Hitler and his you know staff people were given briefings on staff people were given briefings on staff people were given briefings on what this is a famous Story by the way what this is a famous Story by the way what this is a famous Story by the way were given briefings on the industrial were given briefings on the industrial were given briefings on the industrial capabilities of the US you know if and capabilities of the US you know if and capabilities of the US you know if and when it ramped up the numbers that they when it ramped up the numbers that they when it ramped up the numbers that they were given turned out to be low but they were given turned out to be low but they were given turned out to be low but they laughed at them figuring they were laughed at them figuring they were laughed at them figuring they were Fabrications so when you put yourself in Fabrications so when you put yourself in Fabrications so when you put yourself in the other side shoes and you say you the other side shoes and you say you the other side shoes and you say you know why the heck did they think they know why the heck did they think they know why the heck did they think they could pull off anything like this let's could pull off anything like this let's could pull off anything like this let's remember that they didn't quite remember that they didn't quite remember that they didn't quite understand and maybe even Americans understand and maybe even Americans understand and maybe even Americans didn't either the capabilities of the didn't either the capabilities of the didn't either the capabilities of the United States once fully mobilized for United States once fully mobilized for United States once fully mobilized for war and 1940 is the year the war and 1940 is the year the war and 1940 is the year the mobilization begins in Earnest and it's mobilization begins in Earnest and it's mobilization begins in Earnest and it's a catchup effort because the US is very a catchup effort because the US is very a catchup effort because the US is very far behind the powers that have been at far behind the powers that have been at far behind the powers that have been at War now for years in the case of Japan War now for years in the case of Japan War now for years in the case of Japan remember this Chinese incident started remember this Chinese incident started remember this Chinese incident started in 1937 in 1937 in 1937 the other Chinese Affair started in 1931 the other Chinese Affair started in 1931 the other Chinese Affair started in 1931 I mean their troops have been on the I mean their troops have been on the I mean their troops have been on the ground fighting for a long time and ground fighting for a long time and ground fighting for a long time and they've developed a lot of practical they've developed a lot of practical they've developed a lot of practical experience the US Army is a green force experience the US Army is a green force experience the US Army is a green force if there ever was if there ever was if there ever was one that's not to say that the US one that's not to say that the US one that's not to say that the US doesn't have some advantages in its back doesn't have some advantages in its back doesn't have some advantages in its back pocket take for example the fact that in pocket take for example the fact that in pocket take for example the fact that in many cases the US is reading the many cases the US is reading the many cases the US is reading the Japanese secret Japanese secret Japanese secret messages they continually messages they continually messages they continually despite the Japanese belief that this is despite the Japanese belief that this is despite the Japanese belief that this is impossible they continually break impossible they continually break impossible they continually break Japanese codes from you know the 1930s

Japanese codes from you know the 1930s Japanese codes from you know the 1930s all the way into the War years they all the way into the War years they all the way into the War years they don't always have all the codes broken don't always have all the codes broken don't always have all the codes broken so it's hard to understand why if they so it's hard to understand why if they so it's hard to understand why if they knew about a why didn't they know about knew about a why didn't they know about knew about a why didn't they know about be but for example they're reading a lot be but for example they're reading a lot be but for example they're reading a lot of the Diplomatic codes during this of the Diplomatic codes during this of the Diplomatic codes during this period so while the Japanese are period so while the Japanese are period so while the Japanese are negotiating with the Americans the negotiating with the Americans the negotiating with the Americans the Americans are often able to read the Americans are often able to read the Americans are often able to read the messages the Japanese send to each other messages the Japanese send to each other messages the Japanese send to each other and the ones they send over to the and the ones they send over to the and the ones they send over to the Germans and kind of gives you a little Germans and kind of gives you a little Germans and kind of gives you a little bit of an advantage in the negotiations bit of an advantage in the negotiations bit of an advantage in the negotiations doesn't doesn't doesn't it by the summer of 1941 negotiations it by the summer of 1941 negotiations it by the summer of 1941 negotiations are not going well at all positions seem are not going well at all positions seem are not going well at all positions seem to be to be to be hardened and you begin to see this hardened and you begin to see this hardened and you begin to see this Dynamic that we talked about earlier Dynamic that we talked about earlier Dynamic that we talked about earlier this the sliding towards War I always this the sliding towards War I always this the sliding towards War I always think about it like a car accident I think about it like a car accident I think about it like a car accident I once had on a sheet of ice in Colorado I once had on a sheet of ice in Colorado I once had on a sheet of ice in Colorado I was parked I released the emergency was parked I released the emergency was parked I released the emergency break and I watched my car just slowly break and I watched my car just slowly break and I watched my car just slowly slide down downhill picking up speed as slide down downhill picking up speed as slide down downhill picking up speed as it went until it smashed into another it went until it smashed into another it went until it smashed into another park car I watched it in slow motion but park car I watched it in slow motion but park car I watched it in slow motion but I could do nothing to stop it I was I could do nothing to stop it I was I could do nothing to stop it I was powerless and in some of the histories powerless and in some of the histories powerless and in some of the histories that's the way it looks like even the that's the way it looks like even the that's the way it looks like even the Japanese leadership feel in this Japanese leadership feel in this Japanese leadership feel in this situation right there's there's not many situation right there's there's not many situation right there's there's not many raw Rah people about the possibility of raw Rah people about the possibility of raw Rah people about the possibility of doing this and you wonder to yourself if doing this and you wonder to yourself if doing this and you wonder to yourself if there's such a sense of gloom and for there's such a sense of gloom and for there's such a sense of gloom and for boing why on Earth aren't they stopping boing why on Earth aren't they stopping boing why on Earth aren't they stopping it it it it's one of those questions that always it's one of those questions that always it's one of those questions that always comes into play about the emperor we comes into play about the emperor we comes into play about the emperor we mentioned it earlier the emperor mentioned it earlier the emperor mentioned it earlier the emperor supposedly has the power to stop a war supposedly has the power to stop a war supposedly has the power to stop a war like this before it starts I mean he

like this before it starts I mean he like this before it starts I mean he stopped the war eventually if he can do stopped the war eventually if he can do stopped the war eventually if he can do it then why can't he stop it before it it then why can't he stop it before it it then why can't he stop it before it starts these were questions after the starts these were questions after the starts these were questions after the war that he was put war that he was put war that he was put to in this case the guy who's the Prime to in this case the guy who's the Prime to in this case the guy who's the Prime Minister is perhaps the next best person Minister is perhaps the next best person Minister is perhaps the next best person to look at and say why didn't you do to look at and say why didn't you do to look at and say why didn't you do more well at this time period all of a more well at this time period all of a more well at this time period all of a sudden he decides to and it's a a little sudden he decides to and it's a a little sudden he decides to and it's a a little bit like trying to atone for past sins bit like trying to atone for past sins bit like trying to atone for past sins he's an interesting character who gets a he's an interesting character who gets a he's an interesting character who gets a lot of criticism he's a prince his last lot of criticism he's a prince his last lot of criticism he's a prince his last name is Cano and he was the Prime name is Cano and he was the Prime name is Cano and he was the Prime Minister twice earlier on he's this Minister twice earlier on he's this Minister twice earlier on he's this saber rattling pro-nazi guy as um saber rattling pro-nazi guy as um saber rattling pro-nazi guy as um historian Herbert P big says you know historian Herbert P big says you know historian Herbert P big says you know quote after the Manchurian Incident Cano quote after the Manchurian Incident Cano quote after the Manchurian Incident Cano had been vifer anti- anglo-american and had been vifer anti- anglo-american and had been vifer anti- anglo-american and pro-german on January 21st 1941 he pro-german on January 21st 1941 he pro-german on January 21st 1941 he declared firmly before a secret session declared firmly before a secret session declared firmly before a secret session of the diet that quote Germany will win of the diet that quote Germany will win of the diet that quote Germany will win end quote now he was just ass sure that end quote now he was just ass sure that end quote now he was just ass sure that Germany would lose and also sure that Germany would lose and also sure that Germany would lose and also sure that the senior officers of both Services the senior officers of both Services the senior officers of both Services could not promise a Japanese Victory end could not promise a Japanese Victory end could not promise a Japanese Victory end quote this guy all of a sudden seems to quote this guy all of a sudden seems to quote this guy all of a sudden seems to have like a crisis of confidence and have like a crisis of confidence and have like a crisis of confidence and this is what brings the human element this is what brings the human element this is what brings the human element back into the story if you see the slow back into the story if you see the slow back into the story if you see the slow motion car crash happening and it's motion car crash happening and it's motion car crash happening and it's going to kill lots of innocent people going to kill lots of innocent people going to kill lots of innocent people you know and you're the Prime Minister you know and you're the Prime Minister you know and you're the Prime Minister and you have half of a soul here what and you have half of a soul here what and you have half of a soul here what would you try to do Japanese historian would you try to do Japanese historian would you try to do Japanese historian arot describes a conversation he had

arot describes a conversation he had arot describes a conversation he had with another sort of member of the with another sort of member of the with another sort of member of the aristocracy supposedly the only kind of aristocracy supposedly the only kind of aristocracy supposedly the only kind of people he could show his true self to people he could show his true self to people he could show his true self to and he creates one of these figures and he creates one of these figures and he creates one of these figures where you kind of feel bad for the guy where you kind of feel bad for the guy where you kind of feel bad for the guy even though a lot of this is sort of his even though a lot of this is sort of his even though a lot of this is sort of his fault Cano is looking for a way out of fault Cano is looking for a way out of fault Cano is looking for a way out of this mess and he thinks if he can have a this mess and he thinks if he can have a this mess and he thinks if he can have a one-on-one conversation with President one-on-one conversation with President one-on-one conversation with President Roosevelt maybe they can solve this Roosevelt maybe they can solve this Roosevelt maybe they can solve this maybe they can stop the cars slowly maybe they can stop the cars slowly maybe they can stop the cars slowly sliding into the other parked Vehicles sliding into the other parked Vehicles sliding into the other parked Vehicles right can you avoid disaster can you right can you avoid disaster can you right can you avoid disaster can you repair the damage you caused and by the repair the damage you caused and by the repair the damage you caused and by the way she's talking about several of these way she's talking about several of these way she's talking about several of these Japanese aristocracy people so when I Japanese aristocracy people so when I Japanese aristocracy people so when I give you some names that's who they are give you some names that's who they are give you some names that's who they are she writes quote at that time Sanji was she writes quote at that time Sanji was she writes quote at that time Sanji was preoccupied with helping kenoi arrange a preoccupied with helping kenoi arrange a preoccupied with helping kenoi arrange a meeting with Roosevelt Sanji and many of meeting with Roosevelt Sanji and many of meeting with Roosevelt Sanji and many of his blue-blooded friends knew that a war his blue-blooded friends knew that a war his blue-blooded friends knew that a war with the West would be unwinable with the West would be unwinable with the West would be unwinable Matsumoto shiharu the Yale educated Matsumoto shiharu the Yale educated Matsumoto shiharu the Yale educated journalist who was a direct descendant journalist who was a direct descendant journalist who was a direct descendant of another illustrious Magi oligarch of another illustrious Magi oligarch of another illustrious Magi oligarch shared seong's concern quote I have made shared seong's concern quote I have made shared seong's concern quote I have made a big mistake on Japan's relations with a big mistake on Japan's relations with a big mistake on Japan's relations with China end quote canoe confided to him in China end quote canoe confided to him in China end quote canoe confided to him in a show of vulnerability displayed only a show of vulnerability displayed only a show of vulnerability displayed only to his social equals the prime minister to his social equals the prime minister to his social equals the prime minister went on to lament now quoting Cano here went on to lament now quoting Cano here went on to lament now quoting Cano here the former you know a pro-fascist the former you know a pro-fascist the former you know a pro-fascist pro-nazi guy quote I am so ashamed and pro-nazi guy quote I am so ashamed and pro-nazi guy quote I am so ashamed and cannot face up to my ancestors I do not cannot face up to my ancestors I do not cannot face up to my ancestors I do not want to repeat such a mistake and I want want to repeat such a mistake and I want want to repeat such a mistake and I want to avoid war with the United States at to avoid war with the United States at to avoid war with the United States at all costs if at all possible I want to

all costs if at all possible I want to all costs if at all possible I want to improve Sino Japanese relations as well improve Sino Japanese relations as well improve Sino Japanese relations as well I will give it my best shot so won't you I will give it my best shot so won't you I will give it my best shot so won't you help me end help me end help me end quote it's interesting to wonder about a quote it's interesting to wonder about a quote it's interesting to wonder about a guy in a position like that who sort of guy in a position like that who sort of guy in a position like that who sort of has a a moment where he wants to undo has a a moment where he wants to undo has a a moment where he wants to undo stuff and maybe Sees In A Flash or maybe stuff and maybe Sees In A Flash or maybe stuff and maybe Sees In A Flash or maybe a slowly developing realization the a slowly developing realization the a slowly developing realization the ramifications of what's involved ramifications of what's involved ramifications of what's involved here H describes a um Japanese life here H describes a um Japanese life here H describes a um Japanese life insurance sale to its people right insurance sale to its people right insurance sale to its people right during this time period as a way to make during this time period as a way to make during this time period as a way to make money right because they're encircled by money right because they're encircled by money right because they're encircled by all the other powers and she brings it all the other powers and she brings it all the other powers and she brings it all home though when she talks about all home though when she talks about all home though when she talks about well let me have her explain it she well let me have her explain it she well let me have her explain it she writes writes writes quote Japan's leaders let the Diplomatic quote Japan's leaders let the Diplomatic quote Japan's leaders let the Diplomatic crisis Brew meanwhile its people crisis Brew meanwhile its people crisis Brew meanwhile its people remained ignorant of such developments remained ignorant of such developments remained ignorant of such developments in a sweeping national campaign to raise in a sweeping national campaign to raise in a sweeping national campaign to raise money citizens were urged to buy money citizens were urged to buy money citizens were urged to buy National Life Insurance in mid July it National Life Insurance in mid July it National Life Insurance in mid July it was announced with great Fanfare that 50 was announced with great Fanfare that 50 was announced with great Fanfare that 50 million policies had been sold Japan's million policies had been sold Japan's million policies had been sold Japan's population was about 73 million raising population was about 73 million raising population was about 73 million raising 10 billion yen almost 40% of the 10 billion yen almost 40% of the 10 billion yen almost 40% of the country's gross national product for country's gross national product for country's gross national product for 1941 1941 1941 most of that money she writes went to most of that money she writes went to most of that money she writes went to purchase government bonds to fund purchase government bonds to fund purchase government bonds to fund Japan's War in China little did people Japan's War in China little did people Japan's War in China little did people know that their lives would become very know that their lives would become very know that their lives would become very cheap even worthless thanks to the cheap even worthless thanks to the cheap even worthless thanks to the government they so earnestly supported

government they so earnestly supported government they so earnestly supported with their hard-earned hard saved money with their hard-earned hard saved money with their hard-earned hard saved money end end end quote not just that but this is where quote not just that but this is where quote not just that but this is where the Uber patriotism of the Japanese come the Uber patriotism of the Japanese come the Uber patriotism of the Japanese come into play here as we said earlier like into play here as we said earlier like into play here as we said earlier like everyone else only more so I still feel everyone else only more so I still feel everyone else only more so I still feel like there was um a a New York Times uh like there was um a a New York Times uh like there was um a a New York Times uh uh article just before the war broke out uh article just before the war broke out uh article just before the war broke out it was quoted in John tolan's book um it was quoted in John tolan's book um it was quoted in John tolan's book um the Rising Sun where someone over in the Rising Sun where someone over in the Rising Sun where someone over in Asia is trying to explain to the Asia is trying to explain to the Asia is trying to explain to the American public you know not to downplay American public you know not to downplay American public you know not to downplay the Japanese national spirit and what the Japanese national spirit and what the Japanese national spirit and what they're willing to do it's funny because they're willing to do it's funny because they're willing to do it's funny because if you think of many other countries in if you think of many other countries in if you think of many other countries in a situation where they government gets a situation where they government gets a situation where they government gets them in an unwinable War where the costs them in an unwinable War where the costs them in an unwinable War where the costs will be everything to will be everything to will be everything to everyone they might overthrow that everyone they might overthrow that everyone they might overthrow that government rather than go to war the government rather than go to war the government rather than go to war the Japanese people are Japanese people are Japanese people are different if you could have shown the different if you could have shown the different if you could have shown the leadership a crystal ball that only leadership a crystal ball that only leadership a crystal ball that only showed five years into the future they'd showed five years into the future they'd showed five years into the future they'd have given up anything you'd have made have given up anything you'd have made have given up anything you'd have made any concessions in any sort of any concessions in any sort of any concessions in any sort of diplomatic deal but barring that they diplomatic deal but barring that they diplomatic deal but barring that they could count on the support of a people could count on the support of a people could count on the support of a people that takes that takes that takes patriotism to new patriotism to new patriotism to new levels literally the day before War levels literally the day before War levels literally the day before War breaks out there'll be a cable sent to breaks out there'll be a cable sent to breaks out there'll be a cable sent to the New York Times by one of their um the New York Times by one of their um the New York Times by one of their um people who is in Japan and understands

people who is in Japan and understands people who is in Japan and understands the situation there better his name is the situation there better his name is the situation there better his name is Otto Otto Otto tus and the cable says that the Japanese tus and the cable says that the Japanese tus and the cable says that the Japanese people are refusing to believe that people are refusing to believe that people are refusing to believe that they're just about to get into a war they're just about to get into a war they're just about to get into a war with four nations simultaneously think about how many governments would think about how many governments would be overthrown by their people if those be overthrown by their people if those be overthrown by their people if those governments got them in a situation that governments got them in a situation that governments got them in a situation that hopeless but the Japanese are a hopeless but the Japanese are a hopeless but the Japanese are a different class of folk and this writer different class of folk and this writer different class of folk and this writer is trying to point out to the New York is trying to point out to the New York is trying to point out to the New York Times readership exactly what things Times readership exactly what things Times readership exactly what things look like from the other side and don't look like from the other side and don't look like from the other side and don't underestimate these underestimate these underestimate these people after saying that the Japanese people after saying that the Japanese people after saying that the Japanese don't believe that they're about to face don't believe that they're about to face don't believe that they're about to face for Nations simultaneously he continues for Nations simultaneously he continues for Nations simultaneously he continues by saying quote but their instinctive by saying quote but their instinctive by saying quote but their instinctive hopes are daily contradicted by the hopes are daily contradicted by the hopes are daily contradicted by the evidence of their senses they listen to evidence of their senses they listen to evidence of their senses they listen to alarming statements by the highest alarming statements by the highest alarming statements by the highest government officials about the greatest government officials about the greatest government officials about the greatest crisis Japan has ever faced in her 2600e crisis Japan has ever faced in her 2600e crisis Japan has ever faced in her 2600e history they are called to mass meetings history they are called to mass meetings history they are called to mass meetings to hear denunciations of the enemy and to hear denunciations of the enemy and to hear denunciations of the enemy and they read a steady War clamor in the they read a steady War clamor in the they read a steady War clamor in the Press they see air shelters and water Press they see air shelters and water Press they see air shelters and water reservoirs being built everywhere in reservoirs being built everywhere in reservoirs being built everywhere in preparation for Air Raids they are being preparation for Air Raids they are being preparation for Air Raids they are being drilled in air raid defense especially drilled in air raid defense especially drilled in air raid defense especially in fighting fires the greatest dread of in fighting fires the greatest dread of in fighting fires the greatest dread of Japanese cities finally they see taxes Japanese cities finally they see taxes Japanese cities finally they see taxes and prices rising they know that all and prices rising they know that all and prices rising they know that all these things are not done for fun and these things are not done for fun and these things are not done for fun and that war real war which only a short that war real war which only a short that war real war which only a short time ago seemed so very far away is time ago seemed so very far away is time ago seemed so very far away is rapidly stretching out its fiery arms

rapidly stretching out its fiery arms rapidly stretching out its fiery arms towards nipon land of the Gods the cable towards nipon land of the Gods the cable towards nipon land of the Gods the cable continues quote the people do not want continues quote the people do not want continues quote the people do not want war but neither do they want to give up war but neither do they want to give up war but neither do they want to give up the fruits of the war that they have the fruits of the war that they have the fruits of the war that they have been fighting which has cost them such a been fighting which has cost them such a been fighting which has cost them such a lot of blood and treasure they have been lot of blood and treasure they have been lot of blood and treasure they have been told that this war is a war of told that this war is a war of told that this war is a war of self-defense to obtain Elbow Room for self-defense to obtain Elbow Room for self-defense to obtain Elbow Room for the Japanese people crowded into a few the Japanese people crowded into a few the Japanese people crowded into a few small islands with few national small islands with few national small islands with few national resources and to liberate 1,000 million resources and to liberate 1,000 million resources and to liberate 1,000 million of Oriental peoples from exploitation by of Oriental peoples from exploitation by of Oriental peoples from exploitation by the white races it would be a great the white races it would be a great the white races it would be a great mistake the cable continues to assume mistake the cable continues to assume mistake the cable continues to assume that the Japanese are so War weary that that the Japanese are so War weary that that the Japanese are so War weary that they would be reluctant to fight if War they would be reluctant to fight if War they would be reluctant to fight if War really came to their land or that their really came to their land or that their really came to their land or that their War potential is as small or as War potential is as small or as War potential is as small or as straightened as the outward picture straightened as the outward picture straightened as the outward picture might suggest might suggest might suggest as members of a Divine family state in as members of a Divine family state in as members of a Divine family state in which patriotism and religion merge they which patriotism and religion merge they which patriotism and religion merge they not merely say my country right or wrong not merely say my country right or wrong not merely say my country right or wrong but they're convinced with all the but they're convinced with all the but they're convinced with all the fervor of religious faith that their fervor of religious faith that their fervor of religious faith that their country is right whatever mistakes and country is right whatever mistakes and country is right whatever mistakes and tactics individual Statesmen may take tactics individual Statesmen may take tactics individual Statesmen may take end end end quote by the way it's this fervor quote by the way it's this fervor quote by the way it's this fervor something that's sometimes wrapped up something that's sometimes wrapped up something that's sometimes wrapped up into something the Japanese call the into something the Japanese call the into something the Japanese call the Yamato spirit that those optimists who Yamato spirit that those optimists who Yamato spirit that those optimists who are hoping for a positive outcome in any are hoping for a positive outcome in any are hoping for a positive outcome in any conflict with the West are sort of conflict with the West are sort of conflict with the West are sort of basing their hopes on right um if you basing their hopes on right um if you basing their hopes on right um if you look at 20th Century history by the way look at 20th Century history by the way look at 20th Century history by the way there's a lot of places that have tried there's a lot of places that have tried there's a lot of places that have tried to overcome industrial and material to overcome industrial and material to overcome industrial and material imbalances by saying things like well

imbalances by saying things like well imbalances by saying things like well we're tougher or our fighting Spirits we're tougher or our fighting Spirits we're tougher or our fighting Spirits better or what have you and the Japanese better or what have you and the Japanese better or what have you and the Japanese have no choice but to put their hopes in have no choice but to put their hopes in have no choice but to put their hopes in the same sort of rationals after all you the same sort of rationals after all you the same sort of rationals after all you know the government gets a meeting right know the government gets a meeting right know the government gets a meeting right around this time period where they're around this time period where they're around this time period where they're told that Japanese industrial told that Japanese industrial told that Japanese industrial capabilities even with all the steroids capabilities even with all the steroids capabilities even with all the steroids of the Chinese raw materials and of the Chinese raw materials and of the Chinese raw materials and everything else are 12 12th of the everything else are 12 12th of the everything else are 12 12th of the United States's abilities and by the way United States's abilities and by the way United States's abilities and by the way that number is a low projection as that number is a low projection as that number is a low projection as well so the Prime Minister Prince Cano well so the Prime Minister Prince Cano well so the Prime Minister Prince Cano puts his feelers forward and wants to puts his feelers forward and wants to puts his feelers forward and wants to have a meeting with Roosevelt in an have a meeting with Roosevelt in an have a meeting with Roosevelt in an attempt to it sounds like you know use attempt to it sounds like you know use attempt to it sounds like you know use this intricate Japanese guy governmental this intricate Japanese guy governmental this intricate Japanese guy governmental system in a way where he plays chess system in a way where he plays chess system in a way where he plays chess with the military officials and uses the with the military officials and uses the with the military officials and uses the emperor the nuclear bomb piece on the emperor the nuclear bomb piece on the emperor the nuclear bomb piece on the chessboard to sort of Checkmate this war chessboard to sort of Checkmate this war chessboard to sort of Checkmate this war that's coming in it he says he needs the that's coming in it he says he needs the that's coming in it he says he needs the agreement with Roosevelt he needs to agreement with Roosevelt he needs to agreement with Roosevelt he needs to come back with something so he proposes come back with something so he proposes come back with something so he proposes this agreement with Roosevelt Roosevelt this agreement with Roosevelt Roosevelt this agreement with Roosevelt Roosevelt can't come right away because he's can't come right away because he's can't come right away because he's meeting secretly with Winston Churchill meeting secretly with Winston Churchill meeting secretly with Winston Churchill on some Naval vessels in the Atlantic on some Naval vessels in the Atlantic on some Naval vessels in the Atlantic and they'll come out of it with and they'll come out of it with and they'll come out of it with something that's known to history as the something that's known to history as the something that's known to history as the Atlantic Charter a uh template for the Atlantic Charter a uh template for the Atlantic Charter a uh template for the governance of the postc world war world governance of the postc world war world governance of the postc world war world is the uh shorthand but there's a lot of is the uh shorthand but there's a lot of is the uh shorthand but there's a lot of high-minded woodro Wilson type stuff in high-minded woodro Wilson type stuff in high-minded woodro Wilson type stuff in it it it self-determination people should be able self-determination people should be able self-determination people should be able to elect their own governments a bunch to elect their own governments a bunch to elect their own governments a bunch of stuff that if you're the Japanese

of stuff that if you're the Japanese of stuff that if you're the Japanese looks like it's directed squarely at you looks like it's directed squarely at you looks like it's directed squarely at you we celebrated in the United States and we celebrated in the United States and we celebrated in the United States and high school textbooks here this is the high school textbooks here this is the high school textbooks here this is the kind of high-minded Western Democratic kind of high-minded Western Democratic kind of high-minded Western Democratic idealistic stuff that listen we we've idealistic stuff that listen we we've idealistic stuff that listen we we've lost a lot of human beings fighting Wars lost a lot of human beings fighting Wars lost a lot of human beings fighting Wars for those kind of values but if you're for those kind of values but if you're for those kind of values but if you're the Japanese and someone's saying that the Japanese and someone's saying that the Japanese and someone's saying that you know we're going to go to war to you know we're going to go to war to you know we're going to go to war to shut down Nations who won't let people shut down Nations who won't let people shut down Nations who won't let people choose their own governments well what choose their own governments well what choose their own governments well what does that say about China right they're does that say about China right they're does that say about China right they're not choosing the Japanese to govern them not choosing the Japanese to govern them not choosing the Japanese to govern them so it sounds like it's directed at them so it sounds like it's directed at them so it sounds like it's directed at them what's more it looks very hypocritical what's more it looks very hypocritical what's more it looks very hypocritical especially to peoples in Asia when the especially to peoples in Asia when the especially to peoples in Asia when the British are on board with this because British are on board with this because British are on board with this because the British are one of the great maybe the British are one of the great maybe the British are one of the great maybe the greatest of the colonial peoples and the greatest of the colonial peoples and the greatest of the colonial peoples and so are you saying that this Atlantic so are you saying that this Atlantic so are you saying that this Atlantic Charter applies to you too are you Charter applies to you too are you Charter applies to you too are you signing on the dotted line and saying signing on the dotted line and saying signing on the dotted line and saying that you're going to let the people in that you're going to let the people in that you're going to let the people in India vote if they want to have the India vote if they want to have the India vote if they want to have the British government have the role the British government have the role the British government have the role the British government has in India in the British government has in India in the British government has in India in the 1930s for example and Churchill goes on 1930s for example and Churchill goes on 1930s for example and Churchill goes on to clarify like a month or two later no to clarify like a month or two later no to clarify like a month or two later no no no we're talking about uh fascist and no no we're talking about uh fascist and no no we're talking about uh fascist and axis dominated lands here we're not axis dominated lands here we're not axis dominated lands here we're not talking about you know talking about you know talking about you know Singapore once again though to the Singapore once again though to the Singapore once again though to the peoples in Asia this looks a little like peoples in Asia this looks a little like peoples in Asia this looks a little like okay it's World War I all over again uh okay it's World War I all over again uh okay it's World War I all over again uh these high-minded sentiments don't apply these high-minded sentiments don't apply these high-minded sentiments don't apply to us and even though the Japanese are to us and even though the Japanese are to us and even though the Japanese are raping China as they conquer it they may raping China as they conquer it they may raping China as they conquer it they may not look as bad to Asians as they do to not look as bad to Asians as they do to not look as bad to Asians as they do to the people in the western the people in the western the people in the western democracies Roosevelt is apparently open democracies Roosevelt is apparently open democracies Roosevelt is apparently open to the idea of a meeting with the

to the idea of a meeting with the to the idea of a meeting with the Japanese prime minister when he hears Japanese prime minister when he hears Japanese prime minister when he hears about it but his advisor kind of shut it about it but his advisor kind of shut it about it but his advisor kind of shut it down the Japanese have just rejected the down the Japanese have just rejected the down the Japanese have just rejected the latest diplomatic proposals and the um latest diplomatic proposals and the um latest diplomatic proposals and the um advisor say say listen those need to be advisor say say listen those need to be advisor say say listen those need to be clarified before we meet now as we've clarified before we meet now as we've clarified before we meet now as we've just discussed though how long can you just discussed though how long can you just discussed though how long can you put this off when The Fleets bur in 400 put this off when The Fleets bur in 400 put this off when The Fleets bur in 400 tons of fuel an hour right so this tons of fuel an hour right so this tons of fuel an hour right so this becomes another one of the problems and becomes another one of the problems and becomes another one of the problems and I'm not going to get into all the many I'm not going to get into all the many I'm not going to get into all the many things that happened in the last six things that happened in the last six things that happened in the last six months it's a great era to look at if months it's a great era to look at if months it's a great era to look at if you are a fan of diplomatic history the you are a fan of diplomatic history the you are a fan of diplomatic history the tit fortat things that go on but also tit fortat things that go on but also tit fortat things that go on but also the many masss the many masss the many masss misinterpretations misreading misinterpretations misreading misinterpretations misreading and the mistranslations that happen I and the mistranslations that happen I and the mistranslations that happen I mean in a famous case there'll be some mean in a famous case there'll be some mean in a famous case there'll be some Christian missionaries in this story Christian missionaries in this story Christian missionaries in this story well-meaning folk who are trying to help well-meaning folk who are trying to help well-meaning folk who are trying to help everyone avert a catastrophe here that everyone avert a catastrophe here that everyone avert a catastrophe here that the Japanese think are working you know the Japanese think are working you know the Japanese think are working you know as a back channel for the US government as a back channel for the US government as a back channel for the US government but really aren't and this confuses but really aren't and this confuses but really aren't and this confuses matters for a while I mean it's one of matters for a while I mean it's one of matters for a while I mean it's one of these occasions where you wish you had these occasions where you wish you had these occasions where you wish you had what the Soviet Union and the United what the Soviet Union and the United what the Soviet Union and the United States had at one point in the Cold War States had at one point in the Cold War States had at one point in the Cold War the the bat phone the red phone the the the bat phone the red phone the the the bat phone the red phone the hotlines you could just call up the hotlines you could just call up the hotlines you could just call up the emperor the head of the Japanese emperor the head of the Japanese emperor the head of the Japanese government and talk to them directly government and talk to them directly government and talk to them directly with instant translation but you didn't with instant translation but you didn't with instant translation but you didn't have have have that but even if you did is there enough that but even if you did is there enough that but even if you did is there enough room on the core issues to compromise on room on the core issues to compromise on room on the core issues to compromise on any of this any of this any of this stuff one of the compromises that the stuff one of the compromises that the stuff one of the compromises that the Prime Minister had to make to even reach

Prime Minister had to make to even reach Prime Minister had to make to even reach out to Roosevelt was a deal apparently out to Roosevelt was a deal apparently out to Roosevelt was a deal apparently with the army that if the diplomacy with the army that if the diplomacy with the army that if the diplomacy didn't work he'd set a timetable for war didn't work he'd set a timetable for war didn't work he'd set a timetable for war well the diplom he didn't work well the diplom he didn't work well the diplom he didn't work apparently Keno who Bears a significant apparently Keno who Bears a significant apparently Keno who Bears a significant amount of responsibility for getting amount of responsibility for getting amount of responsibility for getting Japan into this mess didn't want to sign Japan into this mess didn't want to sign Japan into this mess didn't want to sign off on you know the ramifications of it off on you know the ramifications of it off on you know the ramifications of it and have his John Hancock on any War and have his John Hancock on any War and have his John Hancock on any War declarations or anything he didn't see declarations or anything he didn't see declarations or anything he didn't see any way out he said the emperor had any way out he said the emperor had any way out he said the emperor had basically gone over to the other side basically gone over to the other side basically gone over to the other side now um and so what's the point and uh now um and so what's the point and uh now um and so what's the point and uh resigns the emperor replaces him with resigns the emperor replaces him with resigns the emperor replaces him with one of the more hawkish figures out one of the more hawkish figures out one of the more hawkish figures out there the head of the war Ministry there the head of the war Ministry there the head of the war Ministry former General in the guantang Army a former General in the guantang Army a former General in the guantang Army a man whose nickname was the man whose nickname was the man whose nickname was the Razer his name is Hadi Tojo and now we Razer his name is Hadi Tojo and now we Razer his name is Hadi Tojo and now we have in place the entire leadership that have in place the entire leadership that have in place the entire leadership that you're normally dealing with when you you're normally dealing with when you you're normally dealing with when you talk about this conflict Tojo in the talk about this conflict Tojo in the talk about this conflict Tojo in the American war propaganda was simply American war propaganda was simply American war propaganda was simply turned into the figure that Americans turned into the figure that Americans turned into the figure that Americans could hate in the same way that they had could hate in the same way that they had could hate in the same way that they had Hitler and melini Hitler and melini Hitler and melini he's the dictator of Japan is the way he's the dictator of Japan is the way he's the dictator of Japan is the way it's it's it's portrayed and this continued for decades portrayed and this continued for decades portrayed and this continued for decades after the war because this became part after the war because this became part after the war because this became part of the propaganda that helped Shield the of the propaganda that helped Shield the of the propaganda that helped Shield the emperor from war crimes charges and by emperor from war crimes charges and by emperor from war crimes charges and by the way several modern historians think the way several modern historians think the way several modern historians think the emperor might have been executed for the emperor might have been executed for the emperor might have been executed for war crimes had those charges been war crimes had those charges been war crimes had those charges been allowed to happen but if you say the allowed to happen but if you say the allowed to happen but if you say the emperor is a puppet with no power and

emperor is a puppet with no power and emperor is a puppet with no power and you say he's a tool of the militarists you say he's a tool of the militarists you say he's a tool of the militarists and you say this General Tojo is the and you say this General Tojo is the and you say this General Tojo is the head of the militarists well then you've head of the militarists well then you've head of the militarists well then you've just transferred all the emperor's just transferred all the emperor's just transferred all the emperor's wartime responsibility to this other wartime responsibility to this other wartime responsibility to this other figure and that's what the American figure and that's what the American figure and that's what the American propaganda kind of did too Tojo looks propaganda kind of did too Tojo looks propaganda kind of did too Tojo looks like your typical Japanese hardliner like your typical Japanese hardliner like your typical Japanese hardliner General but not as far as some of those General but not as far as some of those General but not as far as some of those Imperial Way faction Imperial Way faction Imperial Way faction people you can't really say he's like a people you can't really say he's like a people you can't really say he's like a Hitler or a musolini or a Stalin because Hitler or a musolini or a Stalin because Hitler or a musolini or a Stalin because unlike them he has a unlike them he has a unlike them he has a boss a boss that it's likely that he saw boss a boss that it's likely that he saw boss a boss that it's likely that he saw as the living embodiment of a God that's as the living embodiment of a God that's as the living embodiment of a God that's a very different situation than someone a very different situation than someone a very different situation than someone like Stalin or Hitler for example it like Stalin or Hitler for example it like Stalin or Hitler for example it also means that he has to do what he's also means that he has to do what he's also means that he has to do what he's told there's a lot of theories on the told there's a lot of theories on the told there's a lot of theories on the emperor for all the reasons we've talked emperor for all the reasons we've talked emperor for all the reasons we've talked about but one of them is that this move about but one of them is that this move about but one of them is that this move to put this Army General in control is to put this Army General in control is to put this Army General in control is not what most people think it is most not what most people think it is most not what most people think it is most people think this is a sign that they've people think this is a sign that they've people think this is a sign that they've given in they're going to go to war and given in they're going to go to war and given in they're going to go to war and if they're going to go to war they want if they're going to go to war they want if they're going to go to war they want a general in charge but some people say a general in charge but some people say a general in charge but some people say that no this is actually the emperor's that no this is actually the emperor's that no this is actually the emperor's sneaky attempt to avoid sneaky attempt to avoid sneaky attempt to avoid war this is a minority point of view war this is a minority point of view war this is a minority point of view obviously but those who push this idea obviously but those who push this idea obviously but those who push this idea suggest suggest suggest that it's a Nixon goes to China kind of that it's a Nixon goes to China kind of that it's a Nixon goes to China kind of situation the old Switcheroo the emperor situation the old Switcheroo the emperor situation the old Switcheroo the emperor appoints one of the really big noisy appoints one of the really big noisy appoints one of the really big noisy Hawks to this position of prime minister Hawks to this position of prime minister Hawks to this position of prime minister he has all the respect of the other he has all the respect of the other he has all the respect of the other Hawks and militarists and then you the Hawks and militarists and then you the Hawks and militarists and then you the emperor someone this person sees emperor someone this person sees emperor someone this person sees potentially as a living God orders this potentially as a living God orders this potentially as a living God orders this Hawk to make peace somehow without war

Hawk to make peace somehow without war Hawk to make peace somehow without war and then he'll cover your rear end with and then he'll cover your rear end with and then he'll cover your rear end with the other militarist right cuz he's got the other militarist right cuz he's got the other militarist right cuz he's got total credibility it's an interesting total credibility it's an interesting total credibility it's an interesting Theory one thing that is for sure is Theory one thing that is for sure is Theory one thing that is for sure is that the emperor orders Tojo to pursue that the emperor orders Tojo to pursue that the emperor orders Tojo to pursue diplomacy until the last possible minute diplomacy until the last possible minute diplomacy until the last possible minute and he follows the emperor's orders but and he follows the emperor's orders but and he follows the emperor's orders but he's working with a deadline now and he's working with a deadline now and he's working with a deadline now and it's a deadline that changes a couple of it's a deadline that changes a couple of it's a deadline that changes a couple of times but eventually becomes a hard times but eventually becomes a hard times but eventually becomes a hard deadline where you have all over Asia deadline where you have all over Asia deadline where you have all over Asia now preparations in place men are on the now preparations in place men are on the now preparations in place men are on the Move shipping is being co-opted things Move shipping is being co-opted things Move shipping is being co-opted things are happening and preparations are are happening and preparations are are happening and preparations are underway unless something interven means underway unless something interven means underway unless something interven means to stop now this momentum things are to stop now this momentum things are to stop now this momentum things are going to happen you know as will be said going to happen you know as will be said going to happen you know as will be said in the future in the future in the future automatically the inertia we've been automatically the inertia we've been automatically the inertia we've been talking about for a while now is talking about for a while now is talking about for a while now is becoming almost Unstoppable and the becoming almost Unstoppable and the becoming almost Unstoppable and the final deadline now for some sort of final deadline now for some sort of final deadline now for some sort of diplomatic breakthrough is the end of diplomatic breakthrough is the end of diplomatic breakthrough is the end of November there's a lot of different November there's a lot of different November there's a lot of different interpretations about Hideki Tojo and interpretations about Hideki Tojo and interpretations about Hideki Tojo and the kind of guy he is one thing you the kind of guy he is one thing you the kind of guy he is one thing you never read about him though is any sort never read about him though is any sort never read about him though is any sort of suggestions that he was of suggestions that he was of suggestions that he was insane and yet that's basically what insane and yet that's basically what insane and yet that's basically what Winston Churchill is saying that any Winston Churchill is saying that any Winston Churchill is saying that any Japanese government that would allow Japanese government that would allow Japanese government that would allow their country to slip into a war with their country to slip into a war with their country to slip into a war with the anglo-americans at this point is the anglo-americans at this point is the anglo-americans at this point is crazy suicidal is the way I think he crazy suicidal is the way I think he crazy suicidal is the way I think he puts it Churchill writes you know right puts it Churchill writes you know right puts it Churchill writes you know right after the war after the war after the war quote it had seemed impossible that quote it had seemed impossible that quote it had seemed impossible that Japan would Court destruction by war

Japan would Court destruction by war Japan would Court destruction by war with Britain and the United States and with Britain and the United States and with Britain and the United States and probably Russia in the end a declaration probably Russia in the end a declaration probably Russia in the end a declaration of war by Japan could not be reconciled of war by Japan could not be reconciled of war by Japan could not be reconciled with reason I felt sure she would be with reason I felt sure she would be with reason I felt sure she would be ruined for a generation by such a plunge ruined for a generation by such a plunge ruined for a generation by such a plunge and this proved true but governments and and this proved true but governments and and this proved true but governments and peoples do not always take rational peoples do not always take rational peoples do not always take rational decisions sometimes they take mad decisions sometimes they take mad decisions sometimes they take mad decisions or one set of people get decisions or one set of people get decisions or one set of people get control who compel all others to obey control who compel all others to obey control who compel all others to obey and Aid them in Folly I have not and Aid them in Folly I have not and Aid them in Folly I have not hesitated to record repeatedly he writes hesitated to record repeatedly he writes hesitated to record repeatedly he writes my disbelief that Japan would go mad my disbelief that Japan would go mad my disbelief that Japan would go mad however sincerely we try to put however sincerely we try to put however sincerely we try to put ourselves in another person's position ourselves in another person's position ourselves in another person's position we cannot allow for processes of the we cannot allow for processes of the we cannot allow for processes of the human mind and Imagination to which human mind and Imagination to which human mind and Imagination to which reason offers no key he sums up though reason offers no key he sums up though reason offers no key he sums up though by saying quote Madness is however an by saying quote Madness is however an by saying quote Madness is however an Affliction which in war carries with it Affliction which in war carries with it Affliction which in war carries with it the advantage of the advantage of the advantage of surprise end surprise end surprise end quote the word surprise is italicized in quote the word surprise is italicized in quote the word surprise is italicized in the the the original in order to get a little original in order to get a little original in order to get a little background on how any surprise might background on how any surprise might background on how any surprise might take place when you're talking about take place when you're talking about take place when you're talking about powers that are so far away from each powers that are so far away from each powers that are so far away from each other you got to go back to 1940 we're other you got to go back to 1940 we're other you got to go back to 1940 we're in 1941 late 1941 in this story go back in 1941 late 1941 in this story go back in 1941 late 1941 in this story go back to 1940 when as part of the to 1940 when as part of the to 1940 when as part of the demonstrations of resolve and the public demonstrations of resolve and the public demonstrations of resolve and the public displays uh to sort of bolster diplomacy displays uh to sort of bolster diplomacy displays uh to sort of bolster diplomacy and whatnot the Roosevelt administration and whatnot the Roosevelt administration and whatnot the Roosevelt administration did a couple of big moves one of them did a couple of big moves one of them did a couple of big moves one of them was to reactivate general Douglas was to reactivate general Douglas was to reactivate general Douglas MacArthur US general who was acting his

MacArthur US general who was acting his MacArthur US general who was acting his Field Marshal the Philippine military I Field Marshal the Philippine military I Field Marshal the Philippine military I think at the time reactivate him in the think at the time reactivate him in the think at the time reactivate him in the Philippines and let him sort of publicly Philippines and let him sort of publicly Philippines and let him sort of publicly start consolidating and preparing just start consolidating and preparing just start consolidating and preparing just in case sending a message to Japan the in case sending a message to Japan the in case sending a message to Japan the other thing that was to demonstrate other thing that was to demonstrate other thing that was to demonstrate resolve and all that kind of stuff the resolve and all that kind of stuff the resolve and all that kind of stuff the Roosevelt administration did was they Roosevelt administration did was they Roosevelt administration did was they took the Pacific us Pacific Fleet which took the Pacific us Pacific Fleet which took the Pacific us Pacific Fleet which was normally based on the west coast of was normally based on the west coast of was normally based on the west coast of the United States and moved it to Hawaii the United States and moved it to Hawaii the United States and moved it to Hawaii what is still a 6our Jet Plane ride what is still a 6our Jet Plane ride what is still a 6our Jet Plane ride towards Asia from the US West Coast towards Asia from the US West Coast towards Asia from the US West Coast based it in Pearl Harbor but you know based it in Pearl Harbor but you know based it in Pearl Harbor but you know one man's intimidation move could be one man's intimidation move could be one man's intimidation move could be another man's another man's another man's opportunity but it takes a person who's opportunity but it takes a person who's opportunity but it takes a person who's almost a little bit crazy to see it that almost a little bit crazy to see it that almost a little bit crazy to see it that way sometimes that's what creative way sometimes that's what creative way sometimes that's what creative Geniuses Geniuses Geniuses are sometimes it just requires somebody are sometimes it just requires somebody are sometimes it just requires somebody willing to gamble farther than most willing to gamble farther than most willing to gamble farther than most people are willing to people are willing to people are willing to go enter Admiral isuku Yamamoto into the go enter Admiral isuku Yamamoto into the go enter Admiral isuku Yamamoto into the story if the name's familiar he's famous story if the name's familiar he's famous story if the name's familiar he's famous and he's famous for both being a and he's famous for both being a and he's famous for both being a creative military genius and a crazy creative military genius and a crazy creative military genius and a crazy Gambler if you met him in person you Gambler if you met him in person you Gambler if you met him in person you probably would not be very intimidated probably would not be very intimidated probably would not be very intimidated he stood about 5 fo three maybe he stood about 5 fo three maybe he stood about 5 fo three maybe 5'4 was missing several major fingers 5'4 was missing several major fingers 5'4 was missing several major fingers from one hand and walked with a limp from one hand and walked with a limp from one hand and walked with a limp because an entire chunk of his leg had because an entire chunk of his leg had because an entire chunk of his leg had been torn off along with those fingers been torn off along with those fingers been torn off along with those fingers by the way in probably the most famous by the way in probably the most famous by the way in probably the most famous naval battle in all Japanese history the naval battle in all Japanese history the naval battle in all Japanese history the I 1905 Battle of

I 1905 Battle of I 1905 Battle of sushima where the improbable almost near sushima where the improbable almost near sushima where the improbable almost near impossible happened when an Asian Fleet impossible happened when an Asian Fleet impossible happened when an Asian Fleet defeated a European Fleet and I mean defeated a European Fleet and I mean defeated a European Fleet and I mean resoundingly the as we had talked about resoundingly the as we had talked about resoundingly the as we had talked about earlier Japanese Fleet destroyed the earlier Japanese Fleet destroyed the earlier Japanese Fleet destroyed the Russian Fleet and Yamamoto was there as Russian Fleet and Yamamoto was there as Russian Fleet and Yamamoto was there as a young officer and badly wounded and a young officer and badly wounded and a young officer and badly wounded and almost lost his almost lost his almost lost his life that is one of the battles that life that is one of the battles that life that is one of the battles that will often be cited as an inspiration will often be cited as an inspiration will often be cited as an inspiration for yamamoto's for yamamoto's for yamamoto's idea idea idea here an idea that is so crazy and here an idea that is so crazy and here an idea that is so crazy and improbable and so much of a gamble that improbable and so much of a gamble that improbable and so much of a gamble that when he presents it to the other when he presents it to the other when he presents it to the other Admirals you know on the big decision Admirals you know on the big decision Admirals you know on the big decision board they reject board they reject board they reject it and it's a sign of how brilliant he it and it's a sign of how brilliant he it and it's a sign of how brilliant he was and this was recognized by his peers was and this was recognized by his peers was and this was recognized by his peers that when he threatened to resign if that when he threatened to resign if that when he threatened to resign if they rejected it they changed their they rejected it they changed their they rejected it they changed their minds they'd rather accept an idea that minds they'd rather accept an idea that minds they'd rather accept an idea that they thought was they thought was they thought was crazy then Lose the person who came up crazy then Lose the person who came up crazy then Lose the person who came up with it because they acknowledge what a with it because they acknowledge what a with it because they acknowledge what a creative military genius he creative military genius he creative military genius he is he didn't develop these plans by the is he didn't develop these plans by the is he didn't develop these plans by the way alone uh he had spent more than a way alone uh he had spent more than a way alone uh he had spent more than a year working with other notable people year working with other notable people year working with other notable people that are famous in this story but my that are famous in this story but my that are famous in this story but my favorite one of them is uh one historian favorite one of them is uh one historian favorite one of them is uh one historian described him as he's a military guy described him as he's a military guy described him as he's a military guy though but he's a Gandhi like figure who though but he's a Gandhi like figure who though but he's a Gandhi like figure who chain smokes and leaves Trails of Ashes chain smokes and leaves Trails of Ashes chain smokes and leaves Trails of Ashes behind him seems like a you know a

behind him seems like a you know a behind him seems like a you know a Einstein slash Archimedes SL Sheldon Einstein slash Archimedes SL Sheldon Einstein slash Archimedes SL Sheldon Cooper kind of figure uh doesn't bathe Cooper kind of figure uh doesn't bathe Cooper kind of figure uh doesn't bathe apparently or doesn't bathe very often apparently or doesn't bathe very often apparently or doesn't bathe very often locks himself in completely darkened locks himself in completely darkened locks himself in completely darkened rooms naked for inspiration and then rooms naked for inspiration and then rooms naked for inspiration and then when it comes writes things down really when it comes writes things down really when it comes writes things down really quickly on a pizza I mean he's this quickly on a pizza I mean he's this quickly on a pizza I mean he's this fascinating like wild character who can fascinating like wild character who can fascinating like wild character who can come up with an idea that is so crazy come up with an idea that is so crazy come up with an idea that is so crazy that the other side definitely doesn't that the other side definitely doesn't that the other side definitely doesn't see it coming and is so un usual and see it coming and is so un usual and see it coming and is so un usual and unexpected that I find it hard to even unexpected that I find it hard to even unexpected that I find it hard to even blame them for not seeing it coming I've blame them for not seeing it coming I've blame them for not seeing it coming I've said about the 9/11 attacks before that said about the 9/11 attacks before that said about the 9/11 attacks before that even though there were warnings about even though there were warnings about even though there were warnings about them it just seems so improbable and them it just seems so improbable and them it just seems so improbable and seems so dwarfed by other potential bad seems so dwarfed by other potential bad seems so dwarfed by other potential bad things that you're also getting warnings things that you're also getting warnings things that you're also getting warnings about that seem much more likely that about that seem much more likely that about that seem much more likely that it's only with hindsight that you look it's only with hindsight that you look it's only with hindsight that you look back and go God why weren't we more back and go God why weren't we more back and go God why weren't we more Vigilant why didn't we see this coming Vigilant why didn't we see this coming Vigilant why didn't we see this coming who would have seen a surprise attack on who would have seen a surprise attack on who would have seen a surprise attack on US territory US territory US territory that was coming from a power that was that was coming from a power that was that was coming from a power that was 4,000 miles 4,000 miles 4,000 miles away remember this is an era before away remember this is an era before away remember this is an era before cruise missiles before even airplanes cruise missiles before even airplanes cruise missiles before even airplanes that could get you know without a that could get you know without a that could get you know without a refueling stop from Japan to a place refueling stop from Japan to a place refueling stop from Japan to a place like Hawaii I don't think they could get like Hawaii I don't think they could get like Hawaii I don't think they could get all the way to certainly couldn't get to all the way to certainly couldn't get to all the way to certainly couldn't get to the West Coast certainly couldn't go the West Coast certainly couldn't go the West Coast certainly couldn't go round trip so if you're in a place like round trip so if you're in a place like round trip so if you're in a place like Hawaii how afraid are you that the Hawaii how afraid are you that the Hawaii how afraid are you that the Japanese are going to strike you Japanese are going to strike you Japanese are going to strike you especially since you know you don't even especially since you know you don't even especially since you know you don't even have a war and the answer is not very have a war and the answer is not very have a war and the answer is not very afraid Yamamoto and friends are going to

afraid Yamamoto and friends are going to afraid Yamamoto and friends are going to come up with an come up with an come up with an idea to win a war that he doesn't idea to win a war that he doesn't idea to win a war that he doesn't believe is believe is believe is winnable that's an interesting thing to winnable that's an interesting thing to winnable that's an interesting thing to task somebody with Yamamoto like a lot task somebody with Yamamoto like a lot task somebody with Yamamoto like a lot of these Japanese uh leaders especially of these Japanese uh leaders especially of these Japanese uh leaders especially in the Navy Yamamoto went to Harvard for in the Navy Yamamoto went to Harvard for in the Navy Yamamoto went to Harvard for a little while he has a famous line a little while he has a famous line a little while he has a famous line about you know until you've seen the about you know until you've seen the about you know until you've seen the factories of Detroit or the oil fields factories of Detroit or the oil fields factories of Detroit or the oil fields of Texas know you don't know what you're of Texas know you don't know what you're of Texas know you don't know what you're talking about when you want to make war talking about when you want to make war talking about when you want to make war against a country like the US so against a country like the US so against a country like the US so famously uh is let's just call him famously uh is let's just call him famously uh is let's just call him extremely realistic like a lot of guys extremely realistic like a lot of guys extremely realistic like a lot of guys in the Navy which is part of the reason in the Navy which is part of the reason in the Navy which is part of the reason the Navy was more against fighting the the Navy was more against fighting the the Navy was more against fighting the anglo-americans because as we said anglo-americans because as we said anglo-americans because as we said earlier they understand they're going to earlier they understand they're going to earlier they understand they're going to be doing most of the be doing most of the be doing most of the fighting historian AR ha has him talking fighting historian AR ha has him talking fighting historian AR ha has him talking to another Admiral and basically to another Admiral and basically to another Admiral and basically predicting the way the war is going to predicting the way the war is going to predicting the way the war is going to go y Moto tells Admiral Nagano quote if go y Moto tells Admiral Nagano quote if go y Moto tells Admiral Nagano quote if I might add it is evident that a US I might add it is evident that a US I might add it is evident that a US Japanese war is bound to be protracted Japanese war is bound to be protracted Japanese war is bound to be protracted the United States will not give up the United States will not give up the United States will not give up fighting as long as Japan has the upper fighting as long as Japan has the upper fighting as long as Japan has the upper hand the war will last for several years hand the war will last for several years hand the war will last for several years in the mean time Japan's resources will in the mean time Japan's resources will in the mean time Japan's resources will be depleted battleships and weaponry be depleted battleships and weaponry be depleted battleships and weaponry will be damaged replenishing materials will be damaged replenishing materials will be damaged replenishing materials will be impossible Japan will be will be impossible Japan will be will be impossible Japan will be impoverished he then famously concluded impoverished he then famously concluded impoverished he then famously concluded quote a war with so little chance of quote a war with so little chance of quote a war with so little chance of success should not be fought end success should not be fought end success should not be fought end quote but it was his job nonetheless to quote but it was his job nonetheless to quote but it was his job nonetheless to come up with a way to do it the plan has

come up with a way to do it the plan has come up with a way to do it the plan has been I mean there's a lot of accounts been I mean there's a lot of accounts been I mean there's a lot of accounts it's famous some people you know say it's famous some people you know say it's famous some people you know say it's inspired by a famous Samurai battle it's inspired by a famous Samurai battle it's inspired by a famous Samurai battle a long time ago some people say the a long time ago some people say the a long time ago some people say the Battle of tsushima that Yamamoto was at Battle of tsushima that Yamamoto was at Battle of tsushima that Yamamoto was at is the inspiration others point to is the inspiration others point to is the inspiration others point to something much more recent in something much more recent in something much more recent in 1940 a British task force in the 1940 a British task force in the 1940 a British task force in the Mediterranean with a single aircraft Mediterranean with a single aircraft Mediterranean with a single aircraft carrier and British aircraft carriers carrier and British aircraft carriers carrier and British aircraft carriers did not carry a lot of airplanes by did not carry a lot of airplanes by did not carry a lot of airplanes by Pacific standards and their airplanes Pacific standards and their airplanes Pacific standards and their airplanes are very outdated by Pacific standards are very outdated by Pacific standards are very outdated by Pacific standards launched an attack against the Italian launched an attack against the Italian launched an attack against the Italian Fleet which was anchored in Port at Fleet which was anchored in Port at Fleet which was anchored in Port at night these outdated B planes and there night these outdated B planes and there night these outdated B planes and there were I think between 20 and 30 of them were I think between 20 and 30 of them were I think between 20 and 30 of them overall but I mean at times you had like overall but I mean at times you had like overall but I mean at times you had like six of them attacking did a large amount six of them attacking did a large amount six of them attacking did a large amount of damage and put a bunch of these ships of damage and put a bunch of these ships of damage and put a bunch of these ships out of commission for quite a out of commission for quite a out of commission for quite a while the Japanese uh there was a while the Japanese uh there was a while the Japanese uh there was a Japanese uh Envoy or advisor or atache Japanese uh Envoy or advisor or atache Japanese uh Envoy or advisor or atache in Berlin who I guess came down to look in Berlin who I guess came down to look in Berlin who I guess came down to look at the effects at the harbor at Toronto at the effects at the harbor at Toronto at the effects at the harbor at Toronto the 1940 Battle of Toronto it's called the 1940 Battle of Toronto it's called the 1940 Battle of Toronto it's called and and sent that back to Japan so all and and sent that back to Japan so all and and sent that back to Japan so all of these things were studied and by of these things were studied and by of these things were studied and by January 1941 Yamamoto got a like mockup January 1941 Yamamoto got a like mockup January 1941 Yamamoto got a like mockup of Pearl Harbor in and out of the way of Pearl Harbor in and out of the way of Pearl Harbor in and out of the way place and he's got people sort of just place and he's got people sort of just place and he's got people sort of just planning for this and he's War gaming planning for this and he's War gaming planning for this and he's War gaming it and the challenges by the way are it and the challenges by the way are it and the challenges by the way are immense because the battlefield is immense because the battlefield is immense because the battlefield is immense this conflict which will be immense this conflict which will be immense this conflict which will be fought in the Pacific but will instantly fought in the Pacific but will instantly fought in the Pacific but will instantly suck in all the Asian warfare that's

suck in all the Asian warfare that's suck in all the Asian warfare that's been going on now for several years been going on now for several years been going on now for several years already this is a battlefield so large already this is a battlefield so large already this is a battlefield so large you could drop whole continents into it you could drop whole continents into it you could drop whole continents into it with room all around the with room all around the with room all around the edges Logistics you know getting the edges Logistics you know getting the edges Logistics you know getting the stuff that the armies and navies need to stuff that the armies and navies need to stuff that the armies and navies need to fight and operate where they need to be fight and operate where they need to be fight and operate where they need to be in the quantities you need to have them in the quantities you need to have them in the quantities you need to have them is going to be the sort of challenge is going to be the sort of challenge is going to be the sort of challenge that overhangs every operation and will that overhangs every operation and will that overhangs every operation and will in large part determine the success or in large part determine the success or in large part determine the success or failure of them for this entire conflict failure of them for this entire conflict failure of them for this entire conflict that's the overriding you know military that's the overriding you know military that's the overriding you know military challenge in this theater challenge in this theater challenge in this theater distance and to get an idea of the kind distance and to get an idea of the kind distance and to get an idea of the kind of distance we're talking about you know of distance we're talking about you know of distance we're talking about you know for comparison for comparison for comparison purposes at this same time where we are purposes at this same time where we are purposes at this same time where we are in the story you know October November in the story you know October November in the story you know October November in in in 1941 over in 1941 over in 1941 over in well I was going to say Europe but it's well I was going to say Europe but it's well I was going to say Europe but it's almost you know on the way to Asia almost you know on the way to Asia almost you know on the way to Asia outside the doors of Moscow the ver MO outside the doors of Moscow the ver MO outside the doors of Moscow the ver MO is fighting what they hope are going to is fighting what they hope are going to is fighting what they hope are going to be these climactic battles where the be these climactic battles where the be these climactic battles where the Soviet Union's capital is going to Soviet Union's capital is going to Soviet Union's capital is going to fall but they're facing all sorts of fall but they're facing all sorts of fall but they're facing all sorts of logistical trouble right their supply logistical trouble right their supply logistical trouble right their supply lines are famously stretched to the lines are famously stretched to the lines are famously stretched to the Limit the Germans are now relearning the Limit the Germans are now relearning the Limit the Germans are now relearning the lessons you could have asked earlier lessons you could have asked earlier lessons you could have asked earlier conquerors about Napoleon could have conquerors about Napoleon could have conquerors about Napoleon could have explain the whole problem while he was explain the whole problem while he was explain the whole problem while he was trying to deal with supply issues when trying to deal with supply issues when trying to deal with supply issues when taking Moscow heck you could go back to taking Moscow heck you could go back to taking Moscow heck you could go back to Charles I 12th of Sweden before Napoleon Charles I 12th of Sweden before Napoleon Charles I 12th of Sweden before Napoleon he could have told you the same

he could have told you the same he could have told you the same story that when you get that far away story that when you get that far away story that when you get that far away from your base of operations it's hard from your base of operations it's hard from your base of operations it's hard to get the troops at the head of the to get the troops at the head of the to get the troops at the head of the snake you know as it's called what they snake you know as it's called what they snake you know as it's called what they need to fight I mean Berlin to Moscow is need to fight I mean Berlin to Moscow is need to fight I mean Berlin to Moscow is Like A Thousand Miles about as the crow Like A Thousand Miles about as the crow Like A Thousand Miles about as the crow flies anyway a lot longer when you want flies anyway a lot longer when you want flies anyway a lot longer when you want you know go on those roads but for you know go on those roads but for you know go on those roads but for perspective Tokyo to aahu which is the perspective Tokyo to aahu which is the perspective Tokyo to aahu which is the first you know not to downplay anybody first you know not to downplay anybody first you know not to downplay anybody but I mean the first significant US but I mean the first significant US but I mean the first significant US Territory closest to Japan you know Guam Territory closest to Japan you know Guam Territory closest to Japan you know Guam there's some Alaskan Islands things like there's some Alaskan Islands things like there's some Alaskan Islands things like that but first significant one's aahoo that but first significant one's aahoo that but first significant one's aahoo that's 4,000 miles away four times the that's 4,000 miles away four times the that's 4,000 miles away four times the distance from Berlin to Moscow so if distance from Berlin to Moscow so if distance from Berlin to Moscow so if they're having problems keeping the Vero they're having problems keeping the Vero they're having problems keeping the Vero supplied over by Moscow think about what supplied over by Moscow think about what supplied over by Moscow think about what it takes to to transport everything you it takes to to transport everything you it takes to to transport everything you need to keep an army put together across need to keep an army put together across need to keep an army put together across the Pacific the Pacific the Pacific this is part of the war plans that the this is part of the war plans that the this is part of the war plans that the Japanese have had now for more than a Japanese have had now for more than a Japanese have had now for more than a decade everyone knows right that major decade everyone knows right that major decade everyone knows right that major militaries have War plans in the back of militaries have War plans in the back of militaries have War plans in the back of their Dusty files that cover almost any their Dusty files that cover almost any their Dusty files that cover almost any eventuality you can think of I mean you eventuality you can think of I mean you eventuality you can think of I mean you got to do something when you're not got to do something when you're not got to do something when you're not doing anything else and coming up with a doing anything else and coming up with a doing anything else and coming up with a plan for the United States to fight plan for the United States to fight plan for the United States to fight Canada if the Canadians get all up well Canada if the Canadians get all up well Canada if the Canadians get all up well you know that's just covering all your you know that's just covering all your you know that's just covering all your bases and by the way there was a plan bases and by the way there was a plan bases and by the way there was a plan like that I believe in like that I believe in like that I believe in 1940 in this case the Japanese plan for 1940 in this case the Japanese plan for 1940 in this case the Japanese plan for dealing with the United States involves dealing with the United States involves dealing with the United States involves the Philippines as sort of bait they the Philippines as sort of bait they the Philippines as sort of bait they were going to take the Philippines and were going to take the Philippines and were going to take the Philippines and then when the United States sent the then when the United States sent the then when the United States sent the fleet over to contest it they were going fleet over to contest it they were going fleet over to contest it they were going to have a trap set this trap was going

to have a trap set this trap was going to have a trap set this trap was going to be aided by they envisioned uh to be aided by they envisioned uh to be aided by they envisioned uh aircraft and submarines that would use aircraft and submarines that would use aircraft and submarines that would use Island bases farther out in the Pacific Island bases farther out in the Pacific Island bases farther out in the Pacific and that could sort of like gnats or and that could sort of like gnats or and that could sort of like gnats or mosquitoes weakening the us all along mosquitoes weakening the us all along mosquitoes weakening the us all along the way uh you know have them in a the way uh you know have them in a the way uh you know have them in a condition not feeling so excited about condition not feeling so excited about condition not feeling so excited about fighting and then they walk into a trap fighting and then they walk into a trap fighting and then they walk into a trap if you look at the way the Japanese Navy if you look at the way the Japanese Navy if you look at the way the Japanese Navy is put together it's designed especially is put together it's designed especially is put together it's designed especially like their newer units it's designed for like their newer units it's designed for like their newer units it's designed for this trap this trap this trap situation anyone who is a fan of the situation anyone who is a fan of the situation anyone who is a fan of the Japanese Navy in the second world war Japanese Navy in the second world war Japanese Navy in the second world war knows that it was constrained by knows that it was constrained by knows that it was constrained by treaties and other things and not treaties and other things and not treaties and other things and not allowed to be as big as the British allowed to be as big as the British allowed to be as big as the British Fleet or the US Fleet so what do you do Fleet or the US Fleet so what do you do Fleet or the US Fleet so what do you do if you're the Japanese and you've got if you're the Japanese and you've got if you're the Japanese and you've got those kind of constraints well they those kind of constraints well they those kind of constraints well they decided to go quality instead right if decided to go quality instead right if decided to go quality instead right if we can only have so many battleships we can only have so many battleships we can only have so many battleships let's make them really good battleships let's make them really good battleships let's make them really good battleships just as war is about to break out here just as war is about to break out here just as war is about to break out here the Japanese are finishing up the field the Japanese are finishing up the field the Japanese are finishing up the field Trials of the most powerful Battleship Trials of the most powerful Battleship Trials of the most powerful Battleship not just in the world the most powerful not just in the world the most powerful not just in the world the most powerful Battleship that will ever be Battleship that will ever be Battleship that will ever be built it's famous it's the Yamato the built it's famous it's the Yamato the built it's famous it's the Yamato the only other ship as powerful as the only other ship as powerful as the only other ship as powerful as the Yamato that will ever be built is its Yamato that will ever be built is its Yamato that will ever be built is its sister ship the moushi that's only a sister ship the moushi that's only a sister ship the moushi that's only a little bit behind the Yamato and then little bit behind the Yamato and then little bit behind the Yamato and then behind that is another one called the behind that is another one called the behind that is another one called the shinano all of these ships will outrange shinano all of these ships will outrange shinano all of these ships will outrange their American counterparts they have a their American counterparts they have a their American counterparts they have a an unbelievable amount of armor they are an unbelievable amount of armor they are an unbelievable amount of armor they are enormous their guns are 18.1 in uh the

enormous their guns are 18.1 in uh the enormous their guns are 18.1 in uh the nearest Naval competitor is 16inch guns nearest Naval competitor is 16inch guns nearest Naval competitor is 16inch guns uh an 18.1 inch gun just so you know and uh an 18.1 inch gun just so you know and uh an 18.1 inch gun just so you know and the Yamato has nine of them can fire a the Yamato has nine of them can fire a the Yamato has nine of them can fire a car uh in terms of weight 26 mil car uh in terms of weight 26 mil car uh in terms of weight 26 mil and when those shells landed the and when those shells landed the and when those shells landed the destruction was destruction was destruction was enormous the best battleships of Germany enormous the best battleships of Germany enormous the best battleships of Germany the bismar and interets the best the bismar and interets the best the bismar and interets the best battleships of the United States you battleships of the United States you battleships of the United States you know the Iowa class Missouri type know the Iowa class Missouri type know the Iowa class Missouri type battleships you write down the specs for battleships you write down the specs for battleships you write down the specs for them side by side with the Yamato class them side by side with the Yamato class them side by side with the Yamato class and there's no and there's no and there's no comparison these super battleships as comparison these super battleships as comparison these super battleships as they're often termed were going to be they're often termed were going to be they're often termed were going to be the major hammers that would come down the major hammers that would come down the major hammers that would come down on the American Fleet as it crossed the on the American Fleet as it crossed the on the American Fleet as it crossed the Pacific you know weakened by submarines Pacific you know weakened by submarines Pacific you know weakened by submarines and aircraft the entire way across and and aircraft the entire way across and and aircraft the entire way across and during the Ambush this is how they were during the Ambush this is how they were during the Ambush this is how they were going to be going to be going to be destroyed in this existing long-term destroyed in this existing long-term destroyed in this existing long-term Japanese war plan then what's Japanese war plan then what's Japanese war plan then what's interesting is the plan from that point interesting is the plan from that point interesting is the plan from that point on once you gain this big advantage over on once you gain this big advantage over on once you gain this big advantage over the American Fleet is to hunker down and the American Fleet is to hunker down and the American Fleet is to hunker down and sort of wait for the Armistice reminds sort of wait for the Armistice reminds sort of wait for the Armistice reminds you a little of how the Russo Japanese you a little of how the Russo Japanese you a little of how the Russo Japanese war ended right the mistake in this war ended right the mistake in this war ended right the mistake in this thinking and it will be the mistake in thinking and it will be the mistake in thinking and it will be the mistake in the thinking in the Second World War I the thinking in the Second World War I the thinking in the Second World War I is what if the other side refuses to do is what if the other side refuses to do is what if the other side refuses to do the armist this the armist this the armist this thing well Admiral Yamamoto is um a thing well Admiral Yamamoto is um a thing well Admiral Yamamoto is um a typical aggressive Commander there are typical aggressive Commander there are typical aggressive Commander there are very few commanders that like to allow very few commanders that like to allow very few commanders that like to allow the enemy to seize the initiative to

the enemy to seize the initiative to the enemy to seize the initiative to choose the place of battle to attack at choose the place of battle to attack at choose the place of battle to attack at the time of their choice I mean these the time of their choice I mean these the time of their choice I mean these are all standard military things and are all standard military things and are all standard military things and yamamoto's argument about the whole yamamoto's argument about the whole yamamoto's argument about the whole existing plan of this trap is what if existing plan of this trap is what if existing plan of this trap is what if the Americans don't take the bait what the Americans don't take the bait what the Americans don't take the bait what if they don't come across the Pacific if they don't come across the Pacific if they don't come across the Pacific when you want them to what if they stay when you want them to what if they stay when you want them to what if they stay home and build up their Fleet which home and build up their Fleet which home and build up their Fleet which they're doing already till it's they're doing already till it's they're doing already till it's supercharged and then come over what if supercharged and then come over what if supercharged and then come over what if they go around your trap I mean it's a they go around your trap I mean it's a they go around your trap I mean it's a whole lot of really good whole lot of really good whole lot of really good arguments yamamoto's proposing something arguments yamamoto's proposing something arguments yamamoto's proposing something different this is the audaciousness that different this is the audaciousness that different this is the audaciousness that we spoke about earlier this gambler but we spoke about earlier this gambler but we spoke about earlier this gambler but at the same time somebody who's a at the same time somebody who's a at the same time somebody who's a Visionary a Visionary is someone who Visionary a Visionary is someone who Visionary a Visionary is someone who sees something ahead of the crowd sees something ahead of the crowd sees something ahead of the crowd Yamamoto sees what there are other Yamamoto sees what there are other Yamamoto sees what there are other Visionaries who also see by the way the Visionaries who also see by the way the Visionaries who also see by the way the potential of aircraft carriers now we in potential of aircraft carriers now we in potential of aircraft carriers now we in the modern world have a hard time not the modern world have a hard time not the modern world have a hard time not seeing the potential of aircraft seeing the potential of aircraft seeing the potential of aircraft carriers they're the capital ships of carriers they're the capital ships of carriers they're the capital ships of our era and uh having one or not having our era and uh having one or not having our era and uh having one or not having one sort of differentiates first class one sort of differentiates first class one sort of differentiates first class navies from other class navies but navies from other class navies but navies from other class navies but remember it's going to be the second remember it's going to be the second remember it's going to be the second world war where these lessons are world war where these lessons are world war where these lessons are learned we should also point out that learned we should also point out that learned we should also point out that for the first more than two years of the for the first more than two years of the for the first more than two years of the war there's only one power that's really war there's only one power that's really war there's only one power that's really using aircraft carriers in combat so using aircraft carriers in combat so using aircraft carriers in combat so they're the only ones really learning they're the only ones really learning they're the only ones really learning and developing these techniques and and developing these techniques and and developing these techniques and that's the British by the way the that's the British by the way the that's the British by the way the Germans and the Italians their principal Germans and the Italians their principal Germans and the Italians their principal opponents during the two years before opponents during the two years before opponents during the two years before the Japanese and the Americans are in the Japanese and the Americans are in the Japanese and the Americans are in the war they don't have any aircraft the war they don't have any aircraft the war they don't have any aircraft carriers which means the British don't carriers which means the British don't carriers which means the British don't have to get into this um technological

have to get into this um technological have to get into this um technological race where they have to respond to the race where they have to respond to the race where they have to respond to the Innovations of the other side in carrier Innovations of the other side in carrier Innovations of the other side in carrier Warfare because the other side doesn't Warfare because the other side doesn't Warfare because the other side doesn't have any carriers and the British being have any carriers and the British being have any carriers and the British being the Quint essential Battleship Navy they the Quint essential Battleship Navy they the Quint essential Battleship Navy they see the use of these carriers as see the use of these carriers as see the use of these carriers as something that increases it's a force something that increases it's a force something that increases it's a force multiplier for their Naval task forces multiplier for their Naval task forces multiplier for their Naval task forces normally they'll put a carrier with a normally they'll put a carrier with a normally they'll put a carrier with a naval task force and then all of a naval task force and then all of a naval task force and then all of a sudden it has aerial capability which is sudden it has aerial capability which is sudden it has aerial capability which is of course awesome you can scout way of course awesome you can scout way of course awesome you can scout way ahead now the range of visibility now of ahead now the range of visibility now of ahead now the range of visibility now of these ships is increased once they spot these ships is increased once they spot these ships is increased once they spot an enemy Naval unit they can harass it an enemy Naval unit they can harass it an enemy Naval unit they can harass it and attack it and hopefully maybe you and attack it and hopefully maybe you and attack it and hopefully maybe you could [ __ ] it or slow it down so that could [ __ ] it or slow it down so that could [ __ ] it or slow it down so that when the rest of the fleet catches them when the rest of the fleet catches them when the rest of the fleet catches them they can destroy the naval units of the they can destroy the naval units of the they can destroy the naval units of the enemy with Naval gunfire and Torpedoes enemy with Naval gunfire and Torpedoes enemy with Naval gunfire and Torpedoes which by the way can be aided by which by the way can be aided by which by the way can be aided by spotting from the airplanes too so that spotting from the airplanes too so that spotting from the airplanes too so that it's this role where they are something it's this role where they are something it's this role where they are something that fits into British Naval Doctrine that fits into British Naval Doctrine that fits into British Naval Doctrine pretty well the attack at Toronto by the pretty well the attack at Toronto by the pretty well the attack at Toronto by the way is one of those areas where the way is one of those areas where the way is one of those areas where the Fleet air arm as it's called becomes Fleet air arm as it's called becomes Fleet air arm as it's called becomes extra useful because the rest of the extra useful because the rest of the extra useful because the rest of the Navy can't reach the Italian Fleet and Navy can't reach the Italian Fleet and Navy can't reach the Italian Fleet and do damage with na gunfire so what the do damage with na gunfire so what the do damage with na gunfire so what the heck you know it's a lowrisk venture heck you know it's a lowrisk venture heck you know it's a lowrisk venture send them in there and see what happens send them in there and see what happens send them in there and see what happens and everybody was astonished by how well and everybody was astonished by how well and everybody was astonished by how well the results turned out now a guy like the results turned out now a guy like the results turned out now a guy like Yamamoto is one of those people that Yamamoto is one of those people that Yamamoto is one of those people that allows you to jump several steps in the allows you to jump several steps in the allows you to jump several steps in the normal linear technological development normal linear technological development normal linear technological development you know instead of the normal and this you know instead of the normal and this you know instead of the normal and this is pretty typical in military circles is pretty typical in military circles is pretty typical in military circles you don't want to take too many chances

you don't want to take too many chances you don't want to take too many chances if you're doing one thing different than if you're doing one thing different than if you're doing one thing different than the last time they tried that's the last time they tried that's the last time they tried that's considered Innovation a guy like considered Innovation a guy like considered Innovation a guy like Yamamoto allows you to skip several Yamamoto allows you to skip several Yamamoto allows you to skip several steps here cuz he looks at the Toronto steps here cuz he looks at the Toronto steps here cuz he looks at the Toronto situation and basically says if they can situation and basically says if they can situation and basically says if they can do that with one carrier and 20 to 30 do that with one carrier and 20 to 30 do that with one carrier and 20 to 30 outmoded Banes What If instead of one outmoded Banes What If instead of one outmoded Banes What If instead of one carrier you had something like six carrier you had something like six carrier you had something like six aircraft carriers and what if instead of aircraft carriers and what if instead of aircraft carriers and what if instead of 20 or 30 outmoded biplanes you had more 20 or 30 outmoded biplanes you had more 20 or 30 outmoded biplanes you had more than 400 of the most modern than 400 of the most modern than 400 of the most modern technologically technologically technologically sophisticated aerial attack sophisticated aerial attack sophisticated aerial attack monoplanes also attacking by the way monoplanes also attacking by the way monoplanes also attacking by the way another Fleet tied up in another Fleet tied up in another Fleet tied up in Port Yamamoto doesn't see aircraft Port Yamamoto doesn't see aircraft Port Yamamoto doesn't see aircraft carriers as something that aids the carriers as something that aids the carriers as something that aids the strike force Yamamoto sees them as the strike force Yamamoto sees them as the strike force Yamamoto sees them as the strike force and instead of the naval strike force and instead of the naval strike force and instead of the naval gunfire being the setup to destroy the gunfire being the setup to destroy the gunfire being the setup to destroy the enemy ships which was part of the old enemy ships which was part of the old enemy ships which was part of the old Japanese trap plan too wasn't it he sees Japanese trap plan too wasn't it he sees Japanese trap plan too wasn't it he sees the planes from the carriers themselves the planes from the carriers themselves the planes from the carriers themselves as sinking the enemy ships it's hard not as sinking the enemy ships it's hard not as sinking the enemy ships it's hard not to see that as completely obvious with to see that as completely obvious with to see that as completely obvious with our modern mentality but not only is our modern mentality but not only is our modern mentality but not only is this a revolutionary and controversial this a revolutionary and controversial this a revolutionary and controversial idea without the data to really back it idea without the data to really back it idea without the data to really back it up think of what a gamble it is and up think of what a gamble it is and up think of what a gamble it is and Yamamoto says something at one point Yamamoto says something at one point Yamamoto says something at one point like if this plan fails we just need to like if this plan fails we just need to like if this plan fails we just need to give up well that shows you how much of give up well that shows you how much of give up well that shows you how much of a gamble it is and watching this whole a gamble it is and watching this whole a gamble it is and watching this whole thing take place is like watching a guy thing take place is like watching a guy thing take place is like watching a guy play a card game where the odds of play a card game where the odds of play a card game where the odds of winning are low and he's bet his winning are low and he's bet his winning are low and he's bet his family's lives on the

family's lives on the family's lives on the outcome in a lot of situations where you outcome in a lot of situations where you outcome in a lot of situations where you see big audacious gambles of the sort see big audacious gambles of the sort see big audacious gambles of the sort Young Moto's working with here it's Young Moto's working with here it's Young Moto's working with here it's because people are in relatively because people are in relatively because people are in relatively hopeless situations and it's better to hopeless situations and it's better to hopeless situations and it's better to take a chance because what's going to take a chance because what's going to take a chance because what's going to happen if you don't is worse in the case happen if you don't is worse in the case happen if you don't is worse in the case of like cities that are under siege or of like cities that are under siege or of like cities that are under siege or armies that are surrounded you know armies that are surrounded you know armies that are surrounded you know you're just going to die anyway so why you're just going to die anyway so why you're just going to die anyway so why not try a gamble here what have you got not try a gamble here what have you got not try a gamble here what have you got to lose in the case of Yamamoto the to lose in the case of Yamamoto the to lose in the case of Yamamoto the Japanese government and the Japanese Japanese government and the Japanese Japanese government and the Japanese nation state they have a lot to nation state they have a lot to nation state they have a lot to lose their people are for the most part lose their people are for the most part lose their people are for the most part speaking right now on a relative curve speaking right now on a relative curve speaking right now on a relative curve that your crystal ball would make clear that your crystal ball would make clear that your crystal ball would make clear if you could see 5 years in the future if you could see 5 years in the future if you could see 5 years in the future are are are safe relatively prosperous you want to safe relatively prosperous you want to safe relatively prosperous you want to talk about worst case scenarios here talk about worst case scenarios here talk about worst case scenarios here it's not what the American sanctions it's not what the American sanctions it's not what the American sanctions could do to you it's not what the could do to you it's not what the could do to you it's not what the anglo-american demands that you retract anglo-american demands that you retract anglo-american demands that you retract your Empire could do to you it's what your Empire could do to you it's what your Empire could do to you it's what losing in this metaphorical card game losing in this metaphorical card game losing in this metaphorical card game that yamamoto's playing could do to that yamamoto's playing could do to that yamamoto's playing could do to you CU he's betting with the lives of you CU he's betting with the lives of you CU he's betting with the lives of his people let's be honest he betting his people let's be honest he betting his people let's be honest he betting his cities is the way it's going to work his cities is the way it's going to work his cities is the way it's going to work out so what does he have to do to out so what does he have to do to out so what does he have to do to win well this offensive attack against win well this offensive attack against win well this offensive attack against the US Fleet in yamamoto's case is the US Fleet in yamamoto's case is the US Fleet in yamamoto's case is designed to do the same thing that the designed to do the same thing that the designed to do the same thing that the old trap was designed to do as we said old trap was designed to do as we said old trap was designed to do as we said get the fleet out of the way what's the get the fleet out of the way what's the get the fleet out of the way what's the fleet got to be out of the way for so fleet got to be out of the way for so fleet got to be out of the way for so that Japan could take over a huge chunk

that Japan could take over a huge chunk that Japan could take over a huge chunk of Asia and the Pacific and then Hunker of Asia and the Pacific and then Hunker of Asia and the Pacific and then Hunker down and beat off any efforts by the down and beat off any efforts by the down and beat off any efforts by the anglo-americans to win it back and anglo-americans to win it back and anglo-americans to win it back and within this core surrounded by a defense within this core surrounded by a defense within this core surrounded by a defense perimeter that is you know on the perimeter that is you know on the perimeter that is you know on the largest Battlefield in human history largest Battlefield in human history largest Battlefield in human history would be the resources that Japan needs would be the resources that Japan needs would be the resources that Japan needs for self-sufficiency so you grab the self-sufficiency so you grab the resources you need to continue being a resources you need to continue being a resources you need to continue being a first class power to continue to support first class power to continue to support first class power to continue to support your war effort you create a huge your war effort you create a huge your war effort you create a huge perimeter a long distance around that is perimeter a long distance around that is perimeter a long distance around that is defended and then you make the cost of defended and then you make the cost of defended and then you make the cost of taking it back higher than you think the taking it back higher than you think the taking it back higher than you think the other side is willing to pay this is other side is willing to pay this is other side is willing to pay this is where the rose-colored glasses start where the rose-colored glasses start where the rose-colored glasses start coming into things and according to coming into things and according to coming into things and according to writer Saburo yanaga he points out that writer Saburo yanaga he points out that writer Saburo yanaga he points out that in all the estimations that the military in all the estimations that the military in all the estimations that the military and government have to come up with here and government have to come up with here and government have to come up with here all the numbers that you're plugging in all the numbers that you're plugging in all the numbers that you're plugging in for the unknowables the x's and the wise for the unknowables the x's and the wise for the unknowables the x's and the wise are all sort of rosecolor glasses best are all sort of rosecolor glasses best are all sort of rosecolor glasses best case scenarios how do you beat the Ang case scenarios how do you beat the Ang case scenarios how do you beat the Ang Americans will you take over all this Americans will you take over all this Americans will you take over all this territory and then the Yamato Spirit of territory and then the Yamato Spirit of territory and then the Yamato Spirit of the Japanese warrior will Outlast the the Japanese warrior will Outlast the the Japanese warrior will Outlast the soft westerners and they won't be soft westerners and they won't be soft westerners and they won't be willing to pay the price that you have willing to pay the price that you have willing to pay the price that you have to take to do this so they will to take to do this so they will to take to do this so they will negotiate and we will have some sort of negotiate and we will have some sort of negotiate and we will have some sort of an armyus and Japan will come out ahead an armyus and Japan will come out ahead an armyus and Japan will come out ahead especially if you demoralize the especially if you demoralize the especially if you demoralize the Americans by decimating their Fleet at Americans by decimating their Fleet at Americans by decimating their Fleet at the the the outset and get a advantage on them now outset and get a advantage on them now outset and get a advantage on them now the Pearl Harbor attacks that are going the Pearl Harbor attacks that are going the Pearl Harbor attacks that are going to come out of this Americans have a

to come out of this Americans have a to come out of this Americans have a tendency to tunnel vision and I do this tendency to tunnel vision and I do this tendency to tunnel vision and I do this myself and forget that that is simply a myself and forget that that is simply a myself and forget that that is simply a means to an end the elimination of the means to an end the elimination of the means to an end the elimination of the American Fleet which is the goal of the American Fleet which is the goal of the American Fleet which is the goal of the Pearl Harbor attacks is merely meant to Pearl Harbor attacks is merely meant to Pearl Harbor attacks is merely meant to cover the rising son of Japan going cover the rising son of Japan going cover the rising son of Japan going Supernova and acquiring this defense Supernova and acquiring this defense Supernova and acquiring this defense perimeter and the raw materials perimeter and the raw materials perimeter and the raw materials resources and oil within resources and oil within resources and oil within it the scope of the plan for this is it the scope of the plan for this is it the scope of the plan for this is breathtaking in its hootspa I mean I breathtaking in its hootspa I mean I breathtaking in its hootspa I mean I keep running out of words to use keep running out of words to use keep running out of words to use audacity is the one I keep coming back audacity is the one I keep coming back audacity is the one I keep coming back to I mean remember this is a country to I mean remember this is a country to I mean remember this is a country that is tied down heavily already on the that is tied down heavily already on the that is tied down heavily already on the Asian Asian Asian mainland but here's what historian mainland but here's what historian mainland but here's what historian Ronald H Spectre describes as the plans Ronald H Spectre describes as the plans Ronald H Spectre describes as the plans here that are going to all kind of take here that are going to all kind of take here that are going to all kind of take place starting at the same time he place starting at the same time he place starting at the same time he writes writes writes quote the Japanese plann to seize and quote the Japanese plann to seize and quote the Japanese plann to seize and occupy a vast area including all of occupy a vast area including all of occupy a vast area including all of Southeast Asia they did not already hold Southeast Asia they did not already hold Southeast Asia they did not already hold Burma cam Malaya the Philippines and the Burma cam Malaya the Philippines and the Burma cam Malaya the Philippines and the Dutch East Indies Japan would occupy the Dutch East Indies Japan would occupy the Dutch East Indies Japan would occupy the American Island outposts of Guam and American Island outposts of Guam and American Island outposts of Guam and wake she would also destroy or at least wake she would also destroy or at least wake she would also destroy or at least neutralize the Pacific Fleet at Pearl neutralize the Pacific Fleet at Pearl neutralize the Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor on the first day of the war the Harbor on the first day of the war the Harbor on the first day of the war the Philippines in Malaya were to be hit by Philippines in Malaya were to be hit by Philippines in Malaya were to be hit by air attacks followed soon after by air attacks followed soon after by air attacks followed soon after by Invasion simultaneously he writes troops Invasion simultaneously he writes troops Invasion simultaneously he writes troops would occupy British Borneo and Hong would occupy British Borneo and Hong would occupy British Borneo and Hong Kong once the Philippines and the Malay

Kong once the Philippines and the Malay Kong once the Philippines and the Malay Peninsula with its important Fortress of Peninsula with its important Fortress of Peninsula with its important Fortress of Singapore had been taken the conquest of Singapore had been taken the conquest of Singapore had been taken the conquest of Burma and the Dutch East Indies would Burma and the Dutch East Indies would Burma and the Dutch East Indies would follow end follow end follow end quote now you can't hide quote now you can't hide quote now you can't hide preparations for operations on that preparations for operations on that preparations for operations on that scale and the British and the Americans scale and the British and the Americans scale and the British and the Americans figure out that something Big's figure out that something Big's figure out that something Big's happening they see troop ships moving happening they see troop ships moving happening they see troop ships moving they hear things in the codes that they they hear things in the codes that they they hear things in the codes that they broke and they're seeing the broke and they're seeing the broke and they're seeing the redeployment of forces it's a big thing redeployment of forces it's a big thing redeployment of forces it's a big thing and it takes months and months and they and it takes months and months and they and it takes months and months and they catch on to it ironically though it sort catch on to it ironically though it sort catch on to it ironically though it sort of attracts their attention in a way of attracts their attention in a way of attracts their attention in a way that diverts their attention from what's that diverts their attention from what's that diverts their attention from what's going on in the very northernmost going on in the very northernmost going on in the very northernmost islands of Japan which sort of stretch islands of Japan which sort of stretch islands of Japan which sort of stretch up towards Siberia in really Frozen up towards Siberia in really Frozen up towards Siberia in really Frozen foggy you know rainy conditions that foggy you know rainy conditions that foggy you know rainy conditions that just sort of hide big just sort of hide big just sort of hide big warships by the latter part of November warships by the latter part of November warships by the latter part of November the Japanese have quietly the Japanese have quietly the Japanese have quietly amassed the most powerful aircraft amassed the most powerful aircraft amassed the most powerful aircraft carrier Strike Force in world history up carrier Strike Force in world history up carrier Strike Force in world history up until that time in these Northern until that time in these Northern until that time in these Northern Harbors six aircraft carriers Harbors six aircraft carriers Harbors six aircraft carriers together couple of battle Cruisers bunch together couple of battle Cruisers bunch together couple of battle Cruisers bunch of oil tankers for resupplies destroyers of oil tankers for resupplies destroyers of oil tankers for resupplies destroyers and support ships shrouded in the fog and support ships shrouded in the fog and support ships shrouded in the fog and Mist up there in the north not and Mist up there in the north not and Mist up there in the north not coincidentally right around the same coincidentally right around the same coincidentally right around the same time that that time limit's expiring on time that that time limit's expiring on time that that time limit's expiring on the diplomacy has to work soon or else the diplomacy has to work soon or else the diplomacy has to work soon or else timetable on December first it's or else

timetable on December first it's or else timetable on December first it's or else time and in a famous meeting the time and in a famous meeting the time and in a famous meeting the Japanese emperor in what some historians Japanese emperor in what some historians Japanese emperor in what some historians refer to as a meaningless ceremony to refer to as a meaningless ceremony to refer to as a meaningless ceremony to confirm something already done others confirm something already done others confirm something already done others Infuse the uh event with some Infuse the uh event with some Infuse the uh event with some decision-making power nonetheless it's decision-making power nonetheless it's decision-making power nonetheless it's the official if the Japanese were going the official if the Japanese were going the official if the Japanese were going to have an official public declaration to have an official public declaration to have an official public declaration of war this would have been it but it's of war this would have been it but it's of war this would have been it but it's not public and nobody knows about it if not public and nobody knows about it if not public and nobody knows about it if you're not in on it but this is where you're not in on it but this is where you're not in on it but this is where the decisions made signed off on and by the decisions made signed off on and by the decisions made signed off on and by the time that the time that the time that happens that Fleet that had been sort of happens that Fleet that had been sort of happens that Fleet that had been sort of hiding in The Mists in the northern hiding in The Mists in the northern hiding in The Mists in the northern Harbors with the six carriers has Harbors with the six carriers has Harbors with the six carriers has already departed and is out to sea and already departed and is out to sea and already departed and is out to sea and is disappearing in the fog Banks of a is disappearing in the fog Banks of a is disappearing in the fog Banks of a northern route which avoids normal northern route which avoids normal northern route which avoids normal shipping lanes and at this point shipping lanes and at this point shipping lanes and at this point interestingly enough American interestingly enough American interestingly enough American intelligence which monitors where all intelligence which monitors where all intelligence which monitors where all the Japanese big ships are I found this the Japanese big ships are I found this the Japanese big ships are I found this fascinating before the second world war fascinating before the second world war fascinating before the second world war they already generally know the they already generally know the they already generally know the locations of the carriers and the locations of the carriers and the locations of the carriers and the battleships and all that through radio battleships and all that through radio battleships and all that through radio traffic traffic traffic they lose sight of them which leads to a they lose sight of them which leads to a they lose sight of them which leads to a famous Pearl Harbor related quote with famous Pearl Harbor related quote with famous Pearl Harbor related quote with one of the Admirals um on the island one of the Admirals um on the island one of the Admirals um on the island going do you mean the Japanese Fleet going do you mean the Japanese Fleet going do you mean the Japanese Fleet could be rounding Diamond Head right now could be rounding Diamond Head right now could be rounding Diamond Head right now and we wouldn't even know and we wouldn't even know and we wouldn't even know it but the Americans knew war was coming it but the Americans knew war was coming it but the Americans knew war was coming so did the British in fact there's no so did the British in fact there's no so did the British in fact there's no anticipation in terms of will it or anticipation in terms of will it or anticipation in terms of will it or won't it happen in the couple of weeks won't it happen in the couple of weeks won't it happen in the couple of weeks before it does the question is what's before it does the question is what's before it does the question is what's going to happen when it breaks out the going to happen when it breaks out the going to happen when it breaks out the Americans are pretty darn sure you're Americans are pretty darn sure you're Americans are pretty darn sure you're going to see moves to take over those

going to see moves to take over those going to see moves to take over those resources we talked about that the resources we talked about that the resources we talked about that the Japanese are going to strike in Japanese are going to strike in Japanese are going to strike in Southeast Asia maybe the Dutch East Southeast Asia maybe the Dutch East Southeast Asia maybe the Dutch East Indies probably the Philippines what Indies probably the Philippines what Indies probably the Philippines what they don't see coming is an attack they don't see coming is an attack they don't see coming is an attack across 4,000 miles of ocean at across 4,000 miles of ocean at across 4,000 miles of ocean at them in his very good book on Pearl them in his very good book on Pearl them in his very good book on Pearl Harbor called Pearl Harbor from infamy Harbor called Pearl Harbor from infamy Harbor called Pearl Harbor from infamy to Greatness author Craig Nelson quotes to Greatness author Craig Nelson quotes to Greatness author Craig Nelson quotes some of the wonderful pieces of dialogue some of the wonderful pieces of dialogue some of the wonderful pieces of dialogue that were extracted after the fact that that were extracted after the fact that that were extracted after the fact that look e prophetic or you know show some look e prophetic or you know show some look e prophetic or you know show some sort of vulnerability that was exploited sort of vulnerability that was exploited sort of vulnerability that was exploited by the surprise attack and in one of by the surprise attack and in one of by the surprise attack and in one of these conversations he has the various these conversations he has the various these conversations he has the various Admirals and military leaders in Hawaii Admirals and military leaders in Hawaii Admirals and military leaders in Hawaii right this is late November talking right this is late November talking right this is late November talking about sending planes to some of these about sending planes to some of these about sending planes to some of these islands that they're worried about the islands that they're worried about the islands that they're worried about the Japanese hitting and the Air Force Japanese hitting and the Air Force Japanese hitting and the Air Force Commander on Hawaii basically says don't Commander on Hawaii basically says don't Commander on Hawaii basically says don't send our planes away we have to defend send our planes away we have to defend send our planes away we have to defend Hawaii which kind of stuns Admiral Hawaii which kind of stuns Admiral Hawaii which kind of stuns Admiral Kimmel who basically says are you Kimmel who basically says are you Kimmel who basically says are you worried about Hawaii Hawaii Nelson worried about Hawaii Hawaii Nelson worried about Hawaii Hawaii Nelson writes writes writes quote the Hawaiian Air Force's Chief of quote the Hawaiian Air Force's Chief of quote the Hawaiian Air Force's Chief of Staff James Mollison returned to Short's Staff James Mollison returned to Short's Staff James Mollison returned to Short's original point and he's saying now our original point and he's saying now our original point and he's saying now our mission is to protect aahu and shipping mission is to protect aahu and shipping mission is to protect aahu and shipping out those Army planes will lessen our out those Army planes will lessen our out those Army planes will lessen our capability to do so Kimmel wanted capability to do so Kimmel wanted capability to do so Kimmel wanted details on his thinking why are you so details on his thinking why are you so details on his thinking why are you so worried about this do you think we are worried about this do you think we are worried about this do you think we are in danger of attack when Mollison in danger of attack when Mollison in danger of attack when Mollison replied the Japanese have such a replied the Japanese have such a replied the Japanese have such a capability the Admiral argued capability capability the Admiral argued capability capability the Admiral argued capability yes but yes but yes but possibility the author continues quote

possibility the author continues quote possibility the author continues quote Kimmel then asked his naval war plans Kimmel then asked his naval war plans Kimmel then asked his naval war plans officer rear Admiral Charles McMorris officer rear Admiral Charles McMorris officer rear Admiral Charles McMorris what do you think about the prospects of what do you think about the prospects of what do you think about the prospects of a Japanese Air Attack McMorris said none a Japanese Air Attack McMorris said none a Japanese Air Attack McMorris said none absolutely none end absolutely none end absolutely none end quote so it doesn't matter how often the quote so it doesn't matter how often the quote so it doesn't matter how often the American Administration gets a warning American Administration gets a warning American Administration gets a warning that Osama Bin Laden is bent on that Osama Bin Laden is bent on that Osama Bin Laden is bent on attacking the United States and is you attacking the United States and is you attacking the United States and is you know rumored to be thinking about using know rumored to be thinking about using know rumored to be thinking about using airplanes to run into buildings airplanes to run into buildings airplanes to run into buildings it doesn't seem real amongst all the it doesn't seem real amongst all the it doesn't seem real amongst all the other information that's out there until other information that's out there until other information that's out there until it happens and then after it happens you it happens and then after it happens you it happens and then after it happens you can go back and pick out those points can go back and pick out those points can go back and pick out those points and they stand out like sore and they stand out like sore and they stand out like sore thumbs just like the you know do you thumbs just like the you know do you thumbs just like the you know do you mean to say they could be rounding mean to say they could be rounding mean to say they could be rounding Diamond Head right now well here's what Diamond Head right now well here's what Diamond Head right now well here's what we know they don't have to round diamond we know they don't have to round diamond we know they don't have to round diamond head because that strike force that is head because that strike force that is head because that strike force that is indeed approaching you know the area indeed approaching you know the area indeed approaching you know the area north of Hawaii has aircraft carriers north of Hawaii has aircraft carriers north of Hawaii has aircraft carriers that can launch PL planes without ever that can launch PL planes without ever that can launch PL planes without ever getting that close to the Hawaiian getting that close to the Hawaiian getting that close to the Hawaiian islands and on the morning of December islands and on the morning of December islands and on the morning of December 7th early they begin to do 7th early they begin to do 7th early they begin to do that by this time in the plans unfolding that by this time in the plans unfolding that by this time in the plans unfolding the attack on Pearl Harbor you would the attack on Pearl Harbor you would the attack on Pearl Harbor you would have to say that they had been very have to say that they had been very have to say that they had been very fortunate some of the war gaming that fortunate some of the war gaming that fortunate some of the war gaming that they had done prepping for this event they had done prepping for this event they had done prepping for this event had had the United States discover them had had the United States discover them had had the United States discover them on the way and the Japanese Fleet having on the way and the Japanese Fleet having on the way and the Japanese Fleet having to fight its way within range of Hawaii to fight its way within range of Hawaii to fight its way within range of Hawaii to make its attack but they managed to to make its attack but they managed to to make its attack but they managed to get 220 Mi north of aahu without being

get 220 Mi north of aahu without being get 220 Mi north of aahu without being detected the planes start launching in a detected the planes start launching in a detected the planes start launching in a really rough Sea by the way at 550 a.m. really rough Sea by the way at 550 a.m. really rough Sea by the way at 550 a.m. by like 6:15 620 they got the first wave by like 6:15 620 they got the first wave by like 6:15 620 they got the first wave up in the sky and that's a lot of up in the sky and that's a lot of up in the sky and that's a lot of aircraft by the way and the efficiency aircraft by the way and the efficiency aircraft by the way and the efficiency is going to be notably is going to be notably is going to be notably Japanese this first wave by the way Japanese this first wave by the way Japanese this first wave by the way consists of 43 fighter planes 49 consists of 43 fighter planes 49 consists of 43 fighter planes 49 highlevel bombers 51 dive bombers and 40 highlevel bombers 51 dive bombers and 40 highlevel bombers 51 dive bombers and 40 torpedo torpedo torpedo planes at 620 it heads towards aahu the planes at 620 it heads towards aahu the planes at 620 it heads towards aahu the Japanese begin bringing up the next wave Japanese begin bringing up the next wave Japanese begin bringing up the next wave to go follow up and this gamble this to go follow up and this gamble this to go follow up and this gamble this huge audacious plan by Admiral Yamamoto huge audacious plan by Admiral Yamamoto huge audacious plan by Admiral Yamamoto and Company is underway ironically the and Company is underway ironically the and Company is underway ironically the commander of this operation a guy named commander of this operation a guy named commander of this operation a guy named nagumo not an audacious guy a much more nagumo not an audacious guy a much more nagumo not an audacious guy a much more sort of conservative commander who sort of conservative commander who sort of conservative commander who doesn't seem like he's got a whole lot doesn't seem like he's got a whole lot doesn't seem like he's got a whole lot of faith in this plan it's interesting of faith in this plan it's interesting of faith in this plan it's interesting that you'd have the the creative thinker that you'd have the the creative thinker that you'd have the the creative thinker who's really the Visionary come up with who's really the Visionary come up with who's really the Visionary come up with the idea and then put the implementation the idea and then put the implementation the idea and then put the implementation of it into the hands of somebody much of it into the hands of somebody much of it into the hands of somebody much less likely to well follow up in an less likely to well follow up in an less likely to well follow up in an aggressive way because it's not his aggressive way because it's not his aggressive way because it's not his nature but nonetheless those planes got nature but nonetheless those planes got nature but nonetheless those planes got off with great efficiency and when off with great efficiency and when off with great efficiency and when they're on their way to Hawaii Hawaii is they're on their way to Hawaii Hawaii is they're on their way to Hawaii Hawaii is sleeping there's a reason one of the sleeping there's a reason one of the sleeping there's a reason one of the most famous books ever written about the most famous books ever written about the most famous books ever written about the Pearl Harbor attacks was called at dawn Pearl Harbor attacks was called at dawn Pearl Harbor attacks was called at dawn we slept because not only is we slept because not only is we slept because not only is Hawaii um sleeping it's Sunday morning

Hawaii um sleeping it's Sunday morning Hawaii um sleeping it's Sunday morning everybody's sort of rousing a little bit everybody's sort of rousing a little bit everybody's sort of rousing a little bit late but it's a peaceful Island and I late but it's a peaceful Island and I late but it's a peaceful Island and I don't just mean in an environmental don't just mean in an environmental don't just mean in an environmental sense I mean in a diplomatic one as sense I mean in a diplomatic one as sense I mean in a diplomatic one as these aircraft are approaching you know these aircraft are approaching you know these aircraft are approaching you know what's going to be their attack targets what's going to be their attack targets what's going to be their attack targets the country they're going to attack the country they're going to attack the country they're going to attack isn't it war with them and there's a lot isn't it war with them and there's a lot isn't it war with them and there's a lot of controversy that has arisen ever of controversy that has arisen ever of controversy that has arisen ever since about whether it was supposed to since about whether it was supposed to since about whether it was supposed to be there seems little to no doubt that be there seems little to no doubt that be there seems little to no doubt that the attacks against British possessions the attacks against British possessions the attacks against British possessions in Asia were to be carried on without in Asia were to be carried on without in Asia were to be carried on without warning those were to be surprise warning those were to be surprise warning those were to be surprise attacks whether or not that was supposed attacks whether or not that was supposed attacks whether or not that was supposed to be the same situation against the us to be the same situation against the us to be the same situation against the us there are different points of view and there are different points of view and there are different points of view and I'm not qualified to pick among them for I'm not qualified to pick among them for I'm not qualified to pick among them for a long time uh the official Japanese a long time uh the official Japanese a long time uh the official Japanese point of view from their historians point of view from their historians point of view from their historians basically said it was a screw up on the basically said it was a screw up on the basically said it was a screw up on the part of their diplomatic people in part of their diplomatic people in part of their diplomatic people in Washington DC who didn't get the Washington DC who didn't get the Washington DC who didn't get the material to the right place at the right material to the right place at the right material to the right place at the right time and because of that what should time and because of that what should time and because of that what should have been there early enough to be sort have been there early enough to be sort have been there early enough to be sort of advanced warning didn't happen that of advanced warning didn't happen that of advanced warning didn't happen that way there's U there was a Japanese way there's U there was a Japanese way there's U there was a Japanese writer a couple years ago that is part writer a couple years ago that is part writer a couple years ago that is part of a minority school that suggests that of a minority school that suggests that of a minority school that suggests that that's all a cover that was always that's all a cover that was always that's all a cover that was always intended to be you know unofficially intended to be you know unofficially intended to be you know unofficially late by accident right wink late by accident right wink late by accident right wink wink I kind of like author Craig Nelson wink I kind of like author Craig Nelson wink I kind of like author Craig Nelson in his Pearl Harbor book I kind of like in his Pearl Harbor book I kind of like in his Pearl Harbor book I kind of like his point of view on it though because his point of view on it though because his point of view on it though because it it really does sound like what it it really does sound like what it it really does sound like what probably happened which was there there probably happened which was there there probably happened which was there there was going to be a very short window was going to be a very short window was going to be a very short window right uh here here's a declaration of right uh here here's a declaration of right uh here here's a declaration of war five minutes later boom bombs drop

war five minutes later boom bombs drop war five minutes later boom bombs drop actually 30 minutes later seems to be actually 30 minutes later seems to be actually 30 minutes later seems to be about what they were after he writes about what they were after he writes about what they were after he writes quote Oh and by the way plan Z means the quote Oh and by the way plan Z means the quote Oh and by the way plan Z means the plan to attack Pearl Harbor quote from plan to attack Pearl Harbor quote from plan to attack Pearl Harbor quote from the beginning Imperial Japanese army the beginning Imperial Japanese army the beginning Imperial Japanese army officers planed to invade Singapore officers planed to invade Singapore officers planed to invade Singapore without giving prior notice to Britain without giving prior notice to Britain without giving prior notice to Britain but the Imperial Japanese Navy felt very but the Imperial Japanese Navy felt very but the Imperial Japanese Navy felt very differently about the United States and differently about the United States and differently about the United States and operation Z after the Imperial operation Z after the Imperial operation Z after the Imperial conference on December 1st in fact the conference on December 1st in fact the conference on December 1st in fact the emperor told prime minister Hideki Tojo emperor told prime minister Hideki Tojo emperor told prime minister Hideki Tojo repeatedly that he was not to attack the repeatedly that he was not to attack the repeatedly that he was not to attack the United States without warning Naval United States without warning Naval United States without warning Naval atache yazur sahim matu explained the atache yazur sahim matu explained the atache yazur sahim matu explained the sense of Honor that was a Hallmark of sense of Honor that was a Hallmark of sense of Honor that was a Hallmark of Japanese military history this is um Japanese military history this is um Japanese military history this is um this officer explaining now quote this officer explaining now quote this officer explaining now quote Japanese warriors never tried to Japanese warriors never tried to Japanese warriors never tried to assassinate a person who was sleeping assassinate a person who was sleeping assassinate a person who was sleeping when they tried to kill him they first when they tried to kill him they first when they tried to kill him they first kicked the pillow and woke him up and kicked the pillow and woke him up and kicked the pillow and woke him up and then killed him the same princip then killed him the same princip then killed him the same princip principle applied to the attack the principle applied to the attack the principle applied to the attack the required time to wake America up would required time to wake America up would required time to wake America up would be approximately 30 minutes end be approximately 30 minutes end be approximately 30 minutes end quote now what Nelson says that really quote now what Nelson says that really quote now what Nelson says that really makes sense is that that's a really fine makes sense is that that's a really fine makes sense is that that's a really fine line to walk 30 minutes it doesn't allow line to walk 30 minutes it doesn't allow line to walk 30 minutes it doesn't allow for any kind of screw-ups at all and for any kind of screw-ups at all and for any kind of screw-ups at all and there's a bunch of things that have to there's a bunch of things that have to there's a bunch of things that have to happen and go well and it didn't regardless of which point of view didn't regardless of which point of view you adhere to uh it's clear that the you adhere to uh it's clear that the you adhere to uh it's clear that the people in Hawaii didn't know this was people in Hawaii didn't know this was people in Hawaii didn't know this was coming and the American people didn't coming and the American people didn't coming and the American people didn't know this was coming and because of that know this was coming and because of that know this was coming and because of that their wrath for this entire war will be their wrath for this entire war will be their wrath for this entire war will be visceral I mean it is interesting and

visceral I mean it is interesting and visceral I mean it is interesting and one historian I read did this he said he one historian I read did this he said he one historian I read did this he said he said wouldn't it be interesting to said wouldn't it be interesting to said wouldn't it be interesting to imagine how different the mood might imagine how different the mood might imagine how different the mood might have been had the Japanese said one day have been had the Japanese said one day have been had the Japanese said one day ahead of time we're at War and then ahead of time we're at War and then ahead of time we're at War and then struck interesting to speculate isn't struck interesting to speculate isn't struck interesting to speculate isn't it at the same time though if it's a it at the same time though if it's a it at the same time though if it's a minor miracle that the Japanese can get minor miracle that the Japanese can get minor miracle that the Japanese can get a strike force this close to Hawaii a strike force this close to Hawaii a strike force this close to Hawaii in peace time how much of a major in peace time how much of a major in peace time how much of a major Miracle would they have needed to pull Miracle would they have needed to pull Miracle would they have needed to pull off the same thing in war time you can off the same thing in war time you can off the same thing in war time you can make a case that yamamoto's plan really make a case that yamamoto's plan really make a case that yamamoto's plan really requires in order to be successful the requires in order to be successful the requires in order to be successful the kind of surprise that you only get in a kind of surprise that you only get in a kind of surprise that you only get in a diplomatic situation where War hasn't diplomatic situation where War hasn't diplomatic situation where War hasn't broken out yet you might need that for broken out yet you might need that for broken out yet you might need that for this plan to work and remember the this plan to work and remember the this plan to work and remember the stakes involved here are enormous so I stakes involved here are enormous so I stakes involved here are enormous so I always try to to imagine um you know always try to to imagine um you know always try to to imagine um you know what they must have felt like both in what they must have felt like both in what they must have felt like both in Tokyo the leadership the emperor all Tokyo the leadership the emperor all Tokyo the leadership the emperor all those people who know that this is about those people who know that this is about those people who know that this is about to happen you know looking at their to happen you know looking at their to happen you know looking at their watch wondering what's happening at this watch wondering what's happening at this watch wondering what's happening at this very moment to the leadership with the very moment to the leadership with the very moment to the leadership with the strike force nagumo and his staff I strike force nagumo and his staff I strike force nagumo and his staff I think they were on the aagi the aircraft think they were on the aagi the aircraft think they were on the aagi the aircraft carrier um to the leadership of the carrier um to the leadership of the carrier um to the leadership of the first wave Strike Force itself it's led first wave Strike Force itself it's led first wave Strike Force itself it's led by a guy named Fida by the way and he's by a guy named Fida by the way and he's by a guy named Fida by the way and he's been involved in the planning for this been involved in the planning for this been involved in the planning for this for a long time he's fully aware of the for a long time he's fully aware of the for a long time he's fully aware of the stakes uh he understands that what yam stakes uh he understands that what yam stakes uh he understands that what yam Oto said is true which is if this attack Oto said is true which is if this attack Oto said is true which is if this attack doesn't do what we needed to do we might doesn't do what we needed to do we might doesn't do what we needed to do we might have to give up the war and he have to give up the war and he have to give up the war and he understands what breaks they have to get understands what breaks they have to get understands what breaks they have to get to have a chance of the attack to have a chance of the attack to have a chance of the attack working the first break he needs is

working the first break he needs is working the first break he needs is surprise we have to achieve the surprise surprise we have to achieve the surprise surprise we have to achieve the surprise that we're after that we're after that we're after um there are a couple of famous things um there are a couple of famous things um there are a couple of famous things that happened on the morning of December that happened on the morning of December that happened on the morning of December 7th that could have blown the surprise 7th that could have blown the surprise 7th that could have blown the surprise out of the water and ruined the whole out of the water and ruined the whole out of the water and ruined the whole thing they famously didn't they're much thing they famously didn't they're much thing they famously didn't they're much investigated as you might imagine uh investigated as you might imagine uh investigated as you might imagine uh after the events and after the war cuz after the events and after the war cuz after the events and after the war cuz they're seen as failures and probably they're seen as failures and probably they're seen as failures and probably rightly so the first one was in the rightly so the first one was in the rightly so the first one was in the early morning hours like 3 4 a.m. uh early morning hours like 3 4 a.m. uh early morning hours like 3 4 a.m. uh before the attack planes even take off before the attack planes even take off before the attack planes even take off [ __ ] submarines are discovered in [ __ ] submarines are discovered in [ __ ] submarines are discovered in Pearl Harbor these almost let's call Pearl Harbor these almost let's call Pearl Harbor these almost let's call them suicide missions because that's them suicide missions because that's them suicide missions because that's what they turned out to be several what they turned out to be several what they turned out to be several Japanese [ __ ] submarines were part of Japanese [ __ ] submarines were part of Japanese [ __ ] submarines were part of this operation a couple were discovered this operation a couple were discovered this operation a couple were discovered um an alert was sent and destroyers are um an alert was sent and destroyers are um an alert was sent and destroyers are sort of agitated now and in the early sort of agitated now and in the early sort of agitated now and in the early morning hours there's activity stirred morning hours there's activity stirred morning hours there's activity stirred up in Pearl Harbor that wouldn't have up in Pearl Harbor that wouldn't have up in Pearl Harbor that wouldn't have been stirred up if those [ __ ] been stirred up if those [ __ ] been stirred up if those [ __ ] submarines hadn't been part of the plan submarines hadn't been part of the plan submarines hadn't been part of the plan Yamamoto was never for them by the Yamamoto was never for them by the Yamamoto was never for them by the way and then closer to the actual time way and then closer to the actual time way and then closer to the actual time of the attack as the more than a hundred of the attack as the more than a hundred of the attack as the more than a hundred planes are making their way towards aaho planes are making their way towards aaho planes are making their way towards aaho they're picked up on Hawaiian radar they're picked up on Hawaiian radar they're picked up on Hawaiian radar which is a you know new thing in this which is a you know new thing in this which is a you know new thing in this period had War already been declared period had War already been declared period had War already been declared it's hard to imagine that this would not it's hard to imagine that this would not it's hard to imagine that this would not have prompted a major response the fact have prompted a major response the fact have prompted a major response the fact that war is isn't existing yet kind of that war is isn't existing yet kind of that war is isn't existing yet kind of helped things to go the Japanese way helped things to go the Japanese way helped things to go the Japanese way also the fact that Hawaii is like a also the fact that Hawaii is like a also the fact that Hawaii is like a giant aircraft carrier all by itself giant aircraft carrier all by itself giant aircraft carrier all by itself with planes incoming and outgoing all with planes incoming and outgoing all with planes incoming and outgoing all the time makes it easier for the radar

the time makes it easier for the radar the time makes it easier for the radar operation people to rationalize the many operation people to rationalize the many operation people to rationalize the many many planes they all of a sudden see on many planes they all of a sudden see on many planes they all of a sudden see on their radar as something else for their radar as something else for their radar as something else for example they have some b7s some big example they have some b7s some big example they have some b7s some big heavy bombers doe in easy to confuse heavy bombers doe in easy to confuse heavy bombers doe in easy to confuse them with that maybe in hindsight it them with that maybe in hindsight it them with that maybe in hindsight it should have been seen for what it was should have been seen for what it was should have been seen for what it was but it wasn't and that makes the but it wasn't and that makes the but it wasn't and that makes the Japanese chances at Pearl Harbor at Japanese chances at Pearl Harbor at Japanese chances at Pearl Harbor at least now least now least now possible at about 7:40 a.m. the first possible at about 7:40 a.m. the first possible at about 7:40 a.m. the first wave of the Japanese attack planes break wave of the Japanese attack planes break wave of the Japanese attack planes break through the clouds over aahu they see through the clouds over aahu they see through the clouds over aahu they see Pearl Harbor and they don't see any Pearl Harbor and they don't see any Pearl Harbor and they don't see any anti-aircraft fire or anything like that anti-aircraft fire or anything like that anti-aircraft fire or anything like that they don't see much activity it's they don't see much activity it's they don't see much activity it's obvious that they have not been obvious that they have not been obvious that they have not been discovered and the surprise has been discovered and the surprise has been discovered and the surprise has been achieved what they don't see and this is achieved what they don't see and this is achieved what they don't see and this is the first piece of bad luck and the the first piece of bad luck and the the first piece of bad luck and the first bad break that the Japanese guys first bad break that the Japanese guys first bad break that the Japanese guys they don't see any aircraft carriers and they don't see any aircraft carriers and they don't see any aircraft carriers and a scout plane that had zoomed by here 10 a scout plane that had zoomed by here 10 a scout plane that had zoomed by here 10 15 20 minutes previously didn't see them 15 20 minutes previously didn't see them 15 20 minutes previously didn't see them either and no other Navy on the planet either and no other Navy on the planet either and no other Navy on the planet would have understood the potential would have understood the potential would have understood the potential value of an aircraft carrier more than value of an aircraft carrier more than value of an aircraft carrier more than this one obviously they probably would this one obviously they probably would this one obviously they probably would have traded a battleship for an aircraft have traded a battleship for an aircraft have traded a battleship for an aircraft carrier in terms of what they would have carrier in terms of what they would have carrier in terms of what they would have rather sunk but while they may not have rather sunk but while they may not have rather sunk but while they may not have any aircraft carriers they have a bunch any aircraft carriers they have a bunch any aircraft carriers they have a bunch of battleships just sitting there and of battleships just sitting there and of battleships just sitting there and fushida types out uh on his signal fushida types out uh on his signal fushida types out uh on his signal device the famous uh although there's device the famous uh although there's device the famous uh although there's some controversy about this now about some controversy about this now about some controversy about this now about whether it was meant the way it sounded whether it was meant the way it sounded whether it was meant the way it sounded and has been portrayed famously you know and has been portrayed famously you know and has been portrayed famously you know it'll be Torah Torah Torah which means it'll be Torah Torah Torah which means it'll be Torah Torah Torah which means tiger tiger tiger and this is supposed tiger tiger tiger and this is supposed tiger tiger tiger and this is supposed to be the message not just to the fleet

to be the message not just to the fleet to be the message not just to the fleet but it's picked up all the way but it's picked up all the way but it's picked up all the way miraculously uh the signal in Tokyo 2 miraculously uh the signal in Tokyo 2 miraculously uh the signal in Tokyo 2 telling everyone who's in the know that telling everyone who's in the know that telling everyone who's in the know that this is happening that surprise has been this is happening that surprise has been this is happening that surprise has been achieved I like the way um it's achieved I like the way um it's achieved I like the way um it's described in at dawn we slept when you described in at dawn we slept when you described in at dawn we slept when you think about the the unbelievable amount think about the the unbelievable amount think about the the unbelievable amount of tension someone like oh I don't know of tension someone like oh I don't know of tension someone like oh I don't know Admiral nagumo with the strike force Admiral nagumo with the strike force Admiral nagumo with the strike force would have felt a conservative guy would have felt a conservative guy would have felt a conservative guy doesn't have much faith in this plan doesn't have much faith in this plan doesn't have much faith in this plan anyway but realizes as everyone does anyway but realizes as everyone does anyway but realizes as everyone does just like Yamamoto had said and I'm just like Yamamoto had said and I'm just like Yamamoto had said and I'm paraphrasing but if this plan doesn't paraphrasing but if this plan doesn't paraphrasing but if this plan doesn't work we'll have to end the war um this work we'll have to end the war um this work we'll have to end the war um this is the gamble for everything and this is is the gamble for everything and this is is the gamble for everything and this is the call moment in the poker game here's the call moment in the poker game here's the call moment in the poker game here's the way author Gordon W praying the way author Gordon W praying the way author Gordon W praying describes it in at dawn we slept quote describes it in at dawn we slept quote describes it in at dawn we slept quote F's radio was still clicking when the F's radio was still clicking when the F's radio was still clicking when the first wave broke into its component first wave broke into its component first wave broke into its component parts fushida swung around Barber's parts fushida swung around Barber's parts fushida swung around Barber's point and sure beyond all possible doubt point and sure beyond all possible doubt point and sure beyond all possible doubt that they had indeed achieved maximum that they had indeed achieved maximum that they had indeed achieved maximum strategic surprise at 7:53 a.m. he sang strategic surprise at 7:53 a.m. he sang strategic surprise at 7:53 a.m. he sang out Torah Torah Torah tiger tiger tiger out Torah Torah Torah tiger tiger tiger out Torah Torah Torah tiger tiger tiger the code Words which told the entire the code Words which told the entire the code Words which told the entire Japanese Navy that they had caught the Japanese Navy that they had caught the Japanese Navy that they had caught the Pacific Fleet unawares aboard the air Pacific Fleet unawares aboard the air Pacific Fleet unawares aboard the air CFT carrier akagi kusaka was not in the CFT carrier akagi kusaka was not in the CFT carrier akagi kusaka was not in the least ashamed of the tears which coursed least ashamed of the tears which coursed least ashamed of the tears which coursed down his windburned cheeks impassive Zen down his windburned cheeks impassive Zen down his windburned cheeks impassive Zen Buddhist though he was Admiral nagumo Buddhist though he was Admiral nagumo Buddhist though he was Admiral nagumo could not have uttered a word had life could not have uttered a word had life could not have uttered a word had life and honor depended on it incredibly

and honor depended on it incredibly and honor depended on it incredibly miraculously they had brought off miraculously they had brought off miraculously they had brought off yamamoto's madcap Venture with silent yamamoto's madcap Venture with silent yamamoto's madcap Venture with silent Instinct each man stretched out his hand Instinct each man stretched out his hand Instinct each man stretched out his hand to the other and in their eyes were all to the other and in their eyes were all to the other and in their eyes were all the words they could not the words they could not the words they could not speak end quote speak end quote speak end quote all these planes begin to split up into all these planes begin to split up into all these planes begin to split up into their component parts this is all well their component parts this is all well their component parts this is all well rehearsed stuff everybody knows what rehearsed stuff everybody knows what rehearsed stuff everybody knows what they're supposed to they're supposed to they're supposed to do and many of these planes don't go do and many of these planes don't go do and many of these planes don't go anywhere near Pearl Harbor they go to anywhere near Pearl Harbor they go to anywhere near Pearl Harbor they go to airfields all over the island and they airfields all over the island and they airfields all over the island and they knock out uh not just the airfields but knock out uh not just the airfields but knock out uh not just the airfields but any planes that they find and any planes that they find and any planes that they find and unfortunately Americans were more unfortunately Americans were more unfortunately Americans were more concerned with sabotage during this concerned with sabotage during this concerned with sabotage during this period than something like this so they period than something like this so they period than something like this so they parked all the planes like wing tip to parked all the planes like wing tip to parked all the planes like wing tip to wing tip which is Mak makes them easier wing tip which is Mak makes them easier wing tip which is Mak makes them easier to guard but makes them you easy to to guard but makes them you easy to to guard but makes them you easy to shoot up from the air too so nagumo and shoot up from the air too so nagumo and shoot up from the air too so nagumo and the strike force of carriers the main the strike force of carriers the main the strike force of carriers the main worry that they have 200 and some miles worry that they have 200 and some miles worry that they have 200 and some miles north of Hawaii is that they're going to north of Hawaii is that they're going to north of Hawaii is that they're going to get hit with a Counterattack the only get hit with a Counterattack the only get hit with a Counterattack the only things Hawaii can Counterattack them things Hawaii can Counterattack them things Hawaii can Counterattack them with are ships and planes so the with are ships and planes so the with are ships and planes so the Japanese attack takes both of those into Japanese attack takes both of those into Japanese attack takes both of those into account and there will be planes seen account and there will be planes seen account and there will be planes seen all over the island and in fact in an all over the island and in fact in an all over the island and in fact in an event witnessed by tens of thousands of event witnessed by tens of thousands of event witnessed by tens of thousands of people in one way or another there are people in one way or another there are people in one way or another there are so many stories about what happens on so many stories about what happens on so many stories about what happens on this day some of which are obviously this day some of which are obviously this day some of which are obviously misremembered and exaggerated but a ton misremembered and exaggerated but a ton misremembered and exaggerated but a ton of them are firsthand accounts of people of them are firsthand accounts of people of them are firsthand accounts of people who witnessed something that they never who witnessed something that they never who witnessed something that they never forgot because it was the most momentous forgot because it was the most momentous forgot because it was the most momentous thing of their lives when they watched

thing of their lives when they watched thing of their lives when they watched this attack unfold I myself have a this attack unfold I myself have a this attack unfold I myself have a friend whose father as a kid was working friend whose father as a kid was working friend whose father as a kid was working on a um on a on a point that was higher on a um on a on a point that was higher on a um on a on a point that was higher up and a Japanese plane flew right past up and a Japanese plane flew right past up and a Japanese plane flew right past him and he and the pilot made eye him and he and the pilot made eye him and he and the pilot made eye contact there's a lot of stories like contact there's a lot of stories like contact there's a lot of stories like that by the way about seeing the gold that by the way about seeing the gold that by the way about seeing the gold teeth of the pilot or the pilot smiling teeth of the pilot or the pilot smiling teeth of the pilot or the pilot smiling or waving in fact as the planes approach or waving in fact as the planes approach or waving in fact as the planes approach Pearl Harbor one of the workers at Pearl Pearl Harbor one of the workers at Pearl Pearl Harbor one of the workers at Pearl Harbor says he waved to the Japanese Harbor says he waved to the Japanese Harbor says he waved to the Japanese pilot because the Japanese pilot was pilot because the Japanese pilot was pilot because the Japanese pilot was waving to waving to waving to him and in a remarkable coincidence that him and in a remarkable coincidence that him and in a remarkable coincidence that seems almost too Hollywood movie making seems almost too Hollywood movie making seems almost too Hollywood movie making style to be even true these Japanese style to be even true these Japanese style to be even true these Japanese attack planes swarm down on Pearl Harbor attack planes swarm down on Pearl Harbor attack planes swarm down on Pearl Harbor right as the flag raising ceremony that right as the flag raising ceremony that right as the flag raising ceremony that happens in the morning is happening and happens in the morning is happening and happens in the morning is happening and the bands like on the Nevada they've got the bands like on the Nevada they've got the bands like on the Nevada they've got the Nevada band and they're doing the the Nevada band and they're doing the the Nevada band and they're doing the star spangle Banner it's like out of star spangle Banner it's like out of star spangle Banner it's like out of Apocalypse Now you have explosions Apocalypse Now you have explosions Apocalypse Now you have explosions starting but the bands playing on and by starting but the bands playing on and by starting but the bands playing on and by the way the Nevada band would finish the the way the Nevada band would finish the the way the Nevada band would finish the Star Spangled Banner even though they Star Spangled Banner even though they Star Spangled Banner even though they were being strafed while they were doing were being strafed while they were doing were being strafed while they were doing it and the flag was full of bullet it and the flag was full of bullet it and the flag was full of bullet holes if you want to talk how unprepared holes if you want to talk how unprepared holes if you want to talk how unprepared people were for a war with Japan even people were for a war with Japan even people were for a war with Japan even after the bomb started falling American after the bomb started falling American after the bomb started falling American Sailors especially are looking at this Sailors especially are looking at this Sailors especially are looking at this and thinking it's just a screw up there and thinking it's just a screw up there and thinking it's just a screw up there was no US Air Force at this time so was no US Air Force at this time so was no US Air Force at this time so there was an Army Air cor and a navy there was an Army Air cor and a navy there was an Army Air cor and a navy aircore and the Navy people are looking aircore and the Navy people are looking aircore and the Navy people are looking at this thinking some army guy really

at this thinking some army guy really at this thinking some army guy really screwed up and put real bombs on these screwed up and put real bombs on these screwed up and put real bombs on these planes because they've been watching planes because they've been watching planes because they've been watching Army exercises for a long time and this Army exercises for a long time and this Army exercises for a long time and this just looks like a huge mistake although just looks like a huge mistake although just looks like a huge mistake although one of my favorite quotes that is in a one of my favorite quotes that is in a one of my favorite quotes that is in a lot of the history books is the one lot of the history books is the one lot of the history books is the one sailor who turns to his buddy even after sailor who turns to his buddy even after sailor who turns to his buddy even after the explosions have started and says the explosions have started and says the explosions have started and says quote this is the best goddamn drill the quote this is the best goddamn drill the quote this is the best goddamn drill the Army's ever put on end Army's ever put on end Army's ever put on end quote they'll know soon enough it's not quote they'll know soon enough it's not quote they'll know soon enough it's not a drill and when you look at the a drill and when you look at the a drill and when you look at the timeline from this encounter you'll timeline from this encounter you'll timeline from this encounter you'll notice that right after it starts the notice that right after it starts the notice that right after it starts the torpedo planes are honing in on the torpedo planes are honing in on the torpedo planes are honing in on the vulnerable battleships that are on the vulnerable battleships that are on the vulnerable battleships that are on the outside of some of these pairs outside of some of these pairs outside of some of these pairs that make up what's called Battleship that make up what's called Battleship that make up what's called Battleship row if you look at an actual diagram row if you look at an actual diagram row if you look at an actual diagram you'll notice that not all the you'll notice that not all the you'll notice that not all the battleships are in pairs but several of battleships are in pairs but several of battleships are in pairs but several of them are the ones that are in pairs them are the ones that are in pairs them are the ones that are in pairs means that the that one ship is on sort means that the that one ship is on sort means that the that one ship is on sort of the water side and the other ship is of the water side and the other ship is of the water side and the other ship is on the dock side so the ship that's on on the dock side so the ship that's on on the dock side so the ship that's on the dock side is protected by the the dock side is protected by the the dock side is protected by the outside ship those outside ships are outside ship those outside ships are outside ship those outside ships are going to take the Brun of the Torpedoes going to take the Brun of the Torpedoes going to take the Brun of the Torpedoes and the Torpedoes are ship and the Torpedoes are ship and the Torpedoes are ship Killers they've got like 500 lb of Killers they've got like 500 lb of Killers they've got like 500 lb of explosives they weigh over 1,000 lb explosives they weigh over 1,000 lb explosives they weigh over 1,000 lb they're 17 or 18 ft they're 17 or 18 ft they're 17 or 18 ft long a single plane will carry a single long a single plane will carry a single long a single plane will carry a single torpedo slung under it the plane will torpedo slung under it the plane will torpedo slung under it the plane will fly low real low to the water sometimes fly low real low to the water sometimes fly low real low to the water sometimes below the level of the height of the below the level of the height of the below the level of the height of the ship they're torpedoing drop the torpedo ship they're torpedoing drop the torpedo ship they're torpedoing drop the torpedo and then speed off these Torpedoes by

and then speed off these Torpedoes by and then speed off these Torpedoes by the way have been specially designed for the way have been specially designed for the way have been specially designed for Pearl Harbor because normally they dive Pearl Harbor because normally they dive Pearl Harbor because normally they dive so deep when you drop them that they so deep when you drop them that they so deep when you drop them that they would just embed themselves in the mud would just embed themselves in the mud would just embed themselves in the mud of the harbor the problem is one again of the harbor the problem is one again of the harbor the problem is one again that the Japanese designers here don't that the Japanese designers here don't that the Japanese designers here don't know if they're going to work so the know if they're going to work so the know if they're going to work so the very last major gamble of the entire very last major gamble of the entire very last major gamble of the entire operation here is do the ship killers operation here is do the ship killers operation here is do the ship killers work in this Harbor because if they work in this Harbor because if they work in this Harbor because if they don't you're don't you're don't you're screwed in his book Target Pearl Harbor screwed in his book Target Pearl Harbor screwed in his book Target Pearl Harbor author Michael author Michael author Michael slackman describes the opening of this slackman describes the opening of this slackman describes the opening of this attack and it's pretty clear that the attack and it's pretty clear that the attack and it's pretty clear that the Torpedoes Torpedoes Torpedoes work slackman writes work slackman writes work slackman writes quote as the attack again at 7:55 a.m. quote as the attack again at 7:55 a.m. quote as the attack again at 7:55 a.m. unbelieving Americans watched as bombs unbelieving Americans watched as bombs unbelieving Americans watched as bombs rain down on Hickam and Ford Island rain down on Hickam and Ford Island rain down on Hickam and Ford Island airfields while the low flying Kates airfields while the low flying Kates airfields while the low flying Kates those are planes released their those are planes released their those are planes released their Torpedoes against the ships on Ford Torpedoes against the ships on Ford Torpedoes against the ships on Ford Island's West Side Utah an old Island's West Side Utah an old Island's West Side Utah an old Battleship that was a Target ship now Battleship that was a Target ship now Battleship that was a Target ship now moed in the aircraft carrier moed in the aircraft carrier moed in the aircraft carrier Enterprise's usual place and possibly Enterprise's usual place and possibly Enterprise's usual place and possibly mistaken for a carrier by an mistaken for a carrier by an mistaken for a carrier by an inexperienced Japanese pilot took two inexperienced Japanese pilot took two inexperienced Japanese pilot took two Torpedoes another struck the cruiser Torpedoes another struck the cruiser Torpedoes another struck the cruiser rally mored in line ahead both ships rally mored in line ahead both ships rally mored in line ahead both ships began to list and the target ship began to list and the target ship began to list and the target ship capsized at 812 while Raleigh's crew capsized at 812 while Raleigh's crew capsized at 812 while Raleigh's crew saved the cruiser by heroic damage saved the cruiser by heroic damage saved the cruiser by heroic damage control efforts on the opposite shore of control efforts on the opposite shore of control efforts on the opposite shore of Ford Island he writes Torpedoes struck Ford Island he writes Torpedoes struck Ford Island he writes Torpedoes struck Nevada Arizona West Virginia Oklahoma Nevada Arizona West Virginia Oklahoma Nevada Arizona West Virginia Oklahoma and California Tennessee mored in Board

and California Tennessee mored in Board and California Tennessee mored in Board of West Virginia and Maryland in Board of West Virginia and Maryland in Board of West Virginia and Maryland in Board of Oklahoma escaped torpedo damage as of Oklahoma escaped torpedo damage as of Oklahoma escaped torpedo damage as did the fleet's flagship Pennsylvania in did the fleet's flagship Pennsylvania in did the fleet's flagship Pennsylvania in dry do 1 end dry do 1 end dry do 1 end quote the Oklahoma's going to be hit quote the Oklahoma's going to be hit quote the Oklahoma's going to be hit with a couple of torpedoes right when with a couple of torpedoes right when with a couple of torpedoes right when the attack begins at the attack begins at the attack begins at 7:56 she's going to be hit with another 7:56 she's going to be hit with another 7:56 she's going to be hit with another one four minutes later that penetrates one four minutes later that penetrates one four minutes later that penetrates where the first two already blew up and where the first two already blew up and where the first two already blew up and she'll start to roll over she'll get hit she'll start to roll over she'll get hit she'll start to roll over she'll get hit with two more while she's rolling over with two more while she's rolling over with two more while she's rolling over and within 12 minutes of being struck and within 12 minutes of being struck and within 12 minutes of being struck you can see her Underside and men are you can see her Underside and men are you can see her Underside and men are scurrying as she tips over to try not to scurrying as she tips over to try not to scurrying as she tips over to try not to you know fall into the sea you know fall into the sea you know fall into the sea those are the lucky ones because at those are the lucky ones because at those are the lucky ones because at least 400 Sailors are trapped below least 400 Sailors are trapped below least 400 Sailors are trapped below decks in the Oklahoma with water pouring decks in the Oklahoma with water pouring decks in the Oklahoma with water pouring in shells giant shells are getting in shells giant shells are getting in shells giant shells are getting dislodged and crushing men and the dislodged and crushing men and the dislodged and crushing men and the lights are going out and these people lights are going out and these people lights are going out and these people are trying to get out before they are trying to get out before they are trying to get out before they drowned on the West Virginia they're hit drowned on the West Virginia they're hit drowned on the West Virginia they're hit with something like six or seven with something like six or seven with something like six or seven Torpedoes a couple of bombs on top of Torpedoes a couple of bombs on top of Torpedoes a couple of bombs on top of that taboot and it's a nightmare over that taboot and it's a nightmare over that taboot and it's a nightmare over there one of the survivors described there one of the survivors described there one of the survivors described what it was like to be on the deck of what it was like to be on the deck of what it was like to be on the deck of one of these ships when it was hit by a one of these ships when it was hit by a one of these ships when it was hit by a torpedo and he says the torpedo throws torpedo and he says the torpedo throws torpedo and he says the torpedo throws up a mountain of water tons of liquid up a mountain of water tons of liquid up a mountain of water tons of liquid that goes up in the sky higher than the that goes up in the sky higher than the that goes up in the sky higher than the ship is tall that then crashes down on ship is tall that then crashes down on ship is tall that then crashes down on the deck slamming you and pinning you the deck slamming you and pinning you the deck slamming you and pinning you and making it difficult because the and making it difficult because the and making it difficult because the ship's decks are a wash in water for a ship's decks are a wash in water for a ship's decks are a wash in water for a bit afterwards to get off a ship that's

bit afterwards to get off a ship that's bit afterwards to get off a ship that's just been hit by a torpedo and you know just been hit by a torpedo and you know just been hit by a torpedo and you know is is exploding and burning and all that is is exploding and burning and all that is is exploding and burning and all that kind of stuff making it even more kind of stuff making it even more kind of stuff making it even more difficult to deal with what amounts to difficult to deal with what amounts to difficult to deal with what amounts to most of these men on these ships with most of these men on these ships with most of these men on these ships with something more like a natural disaster something more like a natural disaster something more like a natural disaster or an explosion at Sea that might not or an explosion at Sea that might not or an explosion at Sea that might not have anything to do with war there's have anything to do with war there's have anything to do with war there's very little of the combat side of this very little of the combat side of this very little of the combat side of this going on there are heroic Tales of men going on there are heroic Tales of men going on there are heroic Tales of men breaking into locked ammunition cabinets breaking into locked ammunition cabinets breaking into locked ammunition cabinets because everything is put away I mean because everything is put away I mean because everything is put away I mean the guns are sometimes on these planes the guns are sometimes on these planes the guns are sometimes on these planes for example still packed in the oil um for example still packed in the oil um for example still packed in the oil um so this is more an intentionally caused so this is more an intentionally caused so this is more an intentionally caused disaster and then the story of all these disaster and then the story of all these disaster and then the story of all these human beings trying to make their way to human beings trying to make their way to human beings trying to make their way to safety all sorts of heroism by the way safety all sorts of heroism by the way safety all sorts of heroism by the way and let's give props where they're and let's give props where they're and let's give props where they're deserved a US Navy that everyone noticed deserved a US Navy that everyone noticed deserved a US Navy that everyone noticed was behaving as well as you could was behaving as well as you could was behaving as well as you could possibly imagine under the circumstances possibly imagine under the circumstances possibly imagine under the circumstances there's not mass panic and screaming and there's not mass panic and screaming and there's not mass panic and screaming and yelling and people are even giving up yelling and people are even giving up yelling and people are even giving up their lives and dying in you know their lives and dying in you know their lives and dying in you know silence and resignation it's part of silence and resignation it's part of silence and resignation it's part of what makes everyone grit their teeth and what makes everyone grit their teeth and what makes everyone grit their teeth and get so angry about this afterwards if get so angry about this afterwards if get so angry about this afterwards if you're an American right I mean this is you're an American right I mean this is you're an American right I mean this is such bravery I mean you want to avenge such bravery I mean you want to avenge such bravery I mean you want to avenge people who die in such terrible people who die in such terrible people who die in such terrible circumstances as this and make no circumstances as this and make no circumstances as this and make no mistake about it I mean look what's mistake about it I mean look what's mistake about it I mean look what's going to happen on the Arizona because going to happen on the Arizona because going to happen on the Arizona because after the torpedo planes are done income after the torpedo planes are done income after the torpedo planes are done income the High Altitude bombers the dive

the High Altitude bombers the dive the High Altitude bombers the dive bombers are striking the airfields all bombers are striking the airfields all bombers are striking the airfields all over the place the fighters and we over the place the fighters and we over the place the fighters and we haven't even talked about this are haven't even talked about this are haven't even talked about this are strafing all these ships with machine strafing all these ships with machine strafing all these ships with machine gun bullets and the zero Fighters also gun bullets and the zero Fighters also gun bullets and the zero Fighters also have two 20 mm cannons which are very have two 20 mm cannons which are very have two 20 mm cannons which are very nasty when I used to war game second nasty when I used to war game second nasty when I used to war game second world war Naval battles we paid very world war Naval battles we paid very world war Naval battles we paid very little attention in the rules to the little attention in the rules to the little attention in the rules to the effects of strafing but it's clear from effects of strafing but it's clear from effects of strafing but it's clear from reading the Survivor accounts that it reading the Survivor accounts that it reading the Survivor accounts that it was massively effective in terms of was massively effective in terms of was massively effective in terms of sweeping the decks of human beings sweeping the decks of human beings sweeping the decks of human beings making it impossible to get stuff done making it impossible to get stuff done making it impossible to get stuff done creating chaos stopping people from creating chaos stopping people from creating chaos stopping people from getting off the ships or where they getting off the ships or where they getting off the ships or where they needed to go because what would happen needed to go because what would happen needed to go because what would happen is on these heavily armored warship is on these heavily armored warship is on these heavily armored warship there's still a bunch of stuff that's there's still a bunch of stuff that's there's still a bunch of stuff that's breakable and the bullets hit these breakable and the bullets hit these breakable and the bullets hit these ships creating tons of Sparks and they ships creating tons of Sparks and they ships creating tons of Sparks and they Ricochet everywhere and anything that's Ricochet everywhere and anything that's Ricochet everywhere and anything that's not nailed down or heavily armored goes not nailed down or heavily armored goes not nailed down or heavily armored goes flying the captain of I think it's the flying the captain of I think it's the flying the captain of I think it's the West Virginia will have his stomach torn West Virginia will have his stomach torn West Virginia will have his stomach torn out by some of this shrapnel and they out by some of this shrapnel and they out by some of this shrapnel and they will try to get him off the ship into will try to get him off the ship into will try to get him off the ship into safety he'll die trying and commanding safety he'll die trying and commanding safety he'll die trying and commanding the ship by the way and telling the ship by the way and telling the ship by the way and telling everybody not to not to bother with him everybody not to not to bother with him everybody not to not to bother with him another one of those many heroic stories another one of those many heroic stories another one of those many heroic stories out of Pearl out of Pearl out of Pearl Harbor these high altitude bombers Harbor these high altitude bombers Harbor these high altitude bombers though come in at 8,000 to 14,000 feet though come in at 8,000 to 14,000 feet though come in at 8,000 to 14,000 feet somewhere in there and these are not the somewhere in there and these are not the somewhere in there and these are not the best planes to attack ships with by the best planes to attack ships with by the best planes to attack ships with by the way uh it is very hard to hit a ship way uh it is very hard to hit a ship way uh it is very hard to hit a ship from that altitude uh obviously these from that altitude uh obviously these from that altitude uh obviously these are not moving ships so that helps and are not moving ships so that helps and are not moving ships so that helps and on Battleship row where you have these on Battleship row where you have these on Battleship row where you have these ships mored side by side next to each ships mored side by side next to each ships mored side by side next to each other it's almost like you've doubled other it's almost like you've doubled other it's almost like you've doubled the width of the ship so it makes it an the width of the ship so it makes it an the width of the ship so it makes it an easier Target nonetheless the hit ratio easier Target nonetheless the hit ratio easier Target nonetheless the hit ratio is nothing to be necessarily excited

is nothing to be necessarily excited is nothing to be necessarily excited about but when one of these bombs from about but when one of these bombs from about but when one of these bombs from these high altitude bombers and some of these high altitude bombers and some of these high altitude bombers and some of them are converted 16-in Naval shells by them are converted 16-in Naval shells by them are converted 16-in Naval shells by the way when one of them does hit the the way when one of them does hit the the way when one of them does hit the amount of damage is overwhelming and one amount of damage is overwhelming and one amount of damage is overwhelming and one of them hits the of them hits the of them hits the Arizona and and once again this is all Arizona and and once again this is all Arizona and and once again this is all happening very quickly when the Arizona happening very quickly when the Arizona happening very quickly when the Arizona gets hit this shell it is assumed it's gets hit this shell it is assumed it's gets hit this shell it is assumed it's difficult to conduct any sort of difficult to conduct any sort of difficult to conduct any sort of realistic Recreation of the wounds to realistic Recreation of the wounds to realistic Recreation of the wounds to the Arizona because she's so damaged but the Arizona because she's so damaged but the Arizona because she's so damaged but it's thought that this thing some people it's thought that this thing some people it's thought that this thing some people used to think it went down the Smoke used to think it went down the Smoke used to think it went down the Smoke Stack but it's thought that it it goes Stack but it's thought that it it goes Stack but it's thought that it it goes into the deck of the ship and penetrates into the deck of the ship and penetrates into the deck of the ship and penetrates and ignites the forward magazines where and ignites the forward magazines where and ignites the forward magazines where they keep all of the you know shells and they keep all of the you know shells and they keep all of the you know shells and ammunition and explosives Michael slackman says the explosives Michael slackman says the Arizona's magazines contain Arizona's magazines contain Arizona's magazines contain 384 in shells those are enormous and 384 in shells those are enormous and 384 in shells those are enormous and extremely heavy by the way uh 3500 5 in extremely heavy by the way uh 3500 5 in extremely heavy by the way uh 3500 5 in rounds those are standard land artillery rounds those are standard land artillery rounds those are standard land artillery size pieces right there nearly 5,000 size pieces right there nearly 5,000 size pieces right there nearly 5,000 cans of powder and more than 100,000 cans of powder and more than 100,000 cans of powder and more than 100,000 rounds of machine gun and Small Arms rounds of machine gun and Small Arms rounds of machine gun and Small Arms ammunition when that ignites survivors ammunition when that ignites survivors ammunition when that ignites survivors and there aren't many but the people on and there aren't many but the people on and there aren't many but the people on the ships all around the harbor saw it the ships all around the harbor saw it the ships all around the harbor saw it say it was less of a big boom but more a say it was less of a big boom but more a say it was less of a big boom but more a mighty whoosh they mighty whoosh they mighty whoosh they said another person described in said another person described in said another person described in slackman books that it was an awful

slackman books that it was an awful slackman books that it was an awful swish sort of swish sort of swish sort of sound he quotes Seaman artist here who sound he quotes Seaman artist here who sound he quotes Seaman artist here who saw the Arizona he says explode while he saw the Arizona he says explode while he saw the Arizona he says explode while he was on the nearby Nevada and says quote was on the nearby Nevada and says quote was on the nearby Nevada and says quote the ship he said seemed to jump at least the ship he said seemed to jump at least the ship he said seemed to jump at least 15 or 20 feet upward in the water and 15 or 20 feet upward in the water and 15 or 20 feet upward in the water and sort of break into end sort of break into end sort of break into end quote the explosion was so quote the explosion was so quote the explosion was so large that it blew out the flames on the large that it blew out the flames on the large that it blew out the flames on the ship next to the Arizona which was ship next to the Arizona which was ship next to the Arizona which was burning like a concussion would blow out burning like a concussion would blow out burning like a concussion would blow out a m a m a m match car engines on Ford Island stalled match car engines on Ford Island stalled match car engines on Ford Island stalled from the from the from the concussion it knocked everyone flat on concussion it knocked everyone flat on concussion it knocked everyone flat on some of the surrounding some of the surrounding some of the surrounding ships and the bomber that released the ships and the bomber that released the ships and the bomber that released the bomb felt the concussion shake the aircraft the amount of debris that aircraft the amount of debris that showered down on the ships next to the showered down on the ships next to the showered down on the ships next to the Arizona the Tennessee is right by it and Arizona the Tennessee is right by it and Arizona the Tennessee is right by it and gets hit with so much debris including gets hit with so much debris including gets hit with so much debris including body parts that It suffers more damage body parts that It suffers more damage body parts that It suffers more damage one author said from that than from the one author said from that than from the one author said from that than from the bombs that actually struck her the fuel bombs that actually struck her the fuel bombs that actually struck her the fuel oil that instantly goes out everywhere I oil that instantly goes out everywhere I oil that instantly goes out everywhere I mean all of these ships are gassed up mean all of these ships are gassed up mean all of these ships are gassed up and they carry hundreds of thousands and they carry hundreds of thousands and they carry hundreds of thousands close to half a million uh gallons of close to half a million uh gallons of close to half a million uh gallons of oil on them some of them more than half oil on them some of them more than half oil on them some of them more than half a million gallons oil and this stuff is a million gallons oil and this stuff is a million gallons oil and this stuff is heavy oil and it's it's instantly all in heavy oil and it's it's instantly all in heavy oil and it's it's instantly all in the water so as survivors jump in to try the water so as survivors jump in to try the water so as survivors jump in to try to escape the devastation in some places

to escape the devastation in some places to escape the devastation in some places this is 6 in thick of oil in the water this is 6 in thick of oil in the water this is 6 in thick of oil in the water water the aftermath of the Arizona water the aftermath of the Arizona water the aftermath of the Arizona explosion amid all this other explosion amid all this other explosion amid all this other destruction going on simultaneously is destruction going on simultaneously is destruction going on simultaneously is described by many maybe the most described by many maybe the most described by many maybe the most visceral account I've read is Craig visceral account I've read is Craig visceral account I've read is Craig Nelson's he starts by quoting a West Nelson's he starts by quoting a West Nelson's he starts by quoting a West Virginia sailor who described the scene Virginia sailor who described the scene Virginia sailor who described the scene quote ships on fire ships burning quote ships on fire ships burning quote ships on fire ships burning explosions going on all over the place I explosions going on all over the place I explosions going on all over the place I saw the Arizona blow up and she just saw the Arizona blow up and she just saw the Arizona blow up and she just rained Sailors and and of course those rained Sailors and and of course those rained Sailors and and of course those were the ones that were fortunate enough were the ones that were fortunate enough were the ones that were fortunate enough to live the ones that were blown off the to live the ones that were blown off the to live the ones that were blown off the ship Nelson continues quote burning ship Nelson continues quote burning ship Nelson continues quote burning Arizona crewman ran aft or into the Arizona crewman ran aft or into the Arizona crewman ran aft or into the water thinking they would find relief water thinking they would find relief water thinking they would find relief instead they found 6-in pools of fiery instead they found 6-in pools of fiery instead they found 6-in pools of fiery fuel oil covering the sea turning them fuel oil covering the sea turning them fuel oil covering the sea turning them into match sticks Clint Westbrook said into match sticks Clint Westbrook said into match sticks Clint Westbrook said quote all the oil tanks on all the quote all the oil tanks on all the quote all the oil tanks on all the battle wagons had been ruptured most of battle wagons had been ruptured most of battle wagons had been ruptured most of them and you could just about almost get them and you could just about almost get them and you could just about almost get out and walk on it it was that thick and out and walk on it it was that thick and out and walk on it it was that thick and around those ships that had fire on it around those ships that had fire on it around those ships that had fire on it it was on fire as well so a lot of these it was on fire as well so a lot of these it was on fire as well so a lot of these people jumping off the ships were people jumping off the ships were people jumping off the ships were jumping right into burning oil we had jumping right into burning oil we had jumping right into burning oil we had just loaded the day before cuz we were just loaded the day before cuz we were just loaded the day before cuz we were going back to the States for Christmas going back to the States for Christmas going back to the States for Christmas The Admiral had told us so we had filled The Admiral had told us so we had filled The Admiral had told us so we had filled the tank Saturday end the tank Saturday end the tank Saturday end quote Nelson quotes another witness who quote Nelson quotes another witness who quote Nelson quotes another witness who said quote these people were zombies said quote these people were zombies said quote these people were zombies they were burned completely white their they were burned completely white their they were burned completely white their skin was just as white as if you had skin was just as white as if you had skin was just as white as if you had taken a bucket of white wash and painted

taken a bucket of white wash and painted taken a bucket of white wash and painted it white their hair was burned off their it white their hair was burned off their it white their hair was burned off their eyebrows were burned off the pitiful eyebrows were burned off the pitiful eyebrows were burned off the pitiful remains of their uniforms in their remains of their uniforms in their remains of their uniforms in their crotch was a charred Remnant and the crotch was a charred Remnant and the crotch was a charred Remnant and the insoles of their shoes was about the insoles of their shoes was about the insoles of their shoes was about the only thing that was left on these bodies only thing that was left on these bodies only thing that was left on these bodies they were moving like robots their arms they were moving like robots their arms they were moving like robots their arms were out held away from their bodies and were out held away from their bodies and were out held away from their bodies and they were stumping along the decks end they were stumping along the decks end they were stumping along the decks end quote he then quotes another sailor who quote he then quotes another sailor who quote he then quotes another sailor who said that the decks looked like a said that the decks looked like a said that the decks looked like a Boneyard from all the body Boneyard from all the body Boneyard from all the body parts author Walter Lord in day of parts author Walter Lord in day of parts author Walter Lord in day of infamy describes the remembrance of of a infamy describes the remembrance of of a infamy describes the remembrance of of a Tennessee Survivor who explained what Tennessee Survivor who explained what Tennessee Survivor who explained what it's like to look up and see a bomb it's like to look up and see a bomb it's like to look up and see a bomb coming down right at you and then what coming down right at you and then what coming down right at you and then what happens afterwards he wrote quote Sean happens afterwards he wrote quote Sean happens afterwards he wrote quote Sean JP Burkholder looked out a port hole on JP Burkholder looked out a port hole on JP Burkholder looked out a port hole on the bridge just as one of the converted the bridge just as one of the converted the bridge just as one of the converted 16in shells crashed down on number two 16in shells crashed down on number two 16in shells crashed down on number two turret a few feet forward the port hole turret a few feet forward the port hole turret a few feet forward the port hole cover tore loose clobbered him on the cover tore loose clobbered him on the cover tore loose clobbered him on the head and sent him scurrying through the head and sent him scurrying through the head and sent him scurrying through the door outside he helped a wounded ensen door outside he helped a wounded ensen door outside he helped a wounded ensen but couldn't help one of his closest but couldn't help one of his closest but couldn't help one of his closest friends who was so far gone he only friends who was so far gone he only friends who was so far gone he only wanted Burk holder to shoot him another wanted Burk holder to shoot him another wanted Burk holder to shoot him another armor-piercing bomb burst through number armor-piercing bomb burst through number armor-piercing bomb burst through number three turret farther AF Seaman SF Bowen three turret farther AF Seaman SF Bowen three turret farther AF Seaman SF Bowen stationed there as a powder Carman was stationed there as a powder Carman was stationed there as a powder Carman was just dogging the hatch when the bomb hit just dogging the hatch when the bomb hit just dogging the hatch when the bomb hit it wasn't a shattering crash at all just it wasn't a shattering crash at all just it wasn't a shattering crash at all just a ball of fire about the size of a a ball of fire about the size of a a ball of fire about the size of a basketball appeared overhead and seemed basketball appeared overhead and seemed basketball appeared overhead and seemed to melt down on everyone it seemed to to melt down on everyone it seemed to to melt down on everyone it seemed to run down on his skin and there was no

run down on his skin and there was no run down on his skin and there was no way to stop it as as he crawled down to way to stop it as as he crawled down to way to stop it as as he crawled down to the deck below he noticed that his the deck below he noticed that his the deck below he noticed that his shoestrings were still on Fire end shoestrings were still on Fire end shoestrings were still on Fire end quote the tragedy is immeasurably made quote the tragedy is immeasurably made quote the tragedy is immeasurably made worse when the fuel oil that all these worse when the fuel oil that all these worse when the fuel oil that all these Sailors struggling in the water against Sailors struggling in the water against Sailors struggling in the water against catches catches catches fire the combination of sailors being fire the combination of sailors being fire the combination of sailors being stuck underwater and sailor's burning is stuck underwater and sailor's burning is stuck underwater and sailor's burning is about as nasty as you can get I mean about as nasty as you can get I mean about as nasty as you can get I mean there are reports of sailors jumping off there are reports of sailors jumping off there are reports of sailors jumping off the Arizona and sizzling when they hit the Arizona and sizzling when they hit the Arizona and sizzling when they hit the water and then of course the water the water and then of course the water the water and then of course the water catches on fire it's a nightmare um is catches on fire it's a nightmare um is catches on fire it's a nightmare um is that worse than the people that are that worse than the people that are that worse than the people that are trapped below decks and the many many trapped below decks and the many many trapped below decks and the many many stories of trying to escape the water as stories of trying to escape the water as stories of trying to escape the water as it climbs up and these little pockets of it climbs up and these little pockets of it climbs up and these little pockets of air and people will be cut out of these air and people will be cut out of these air and people will be cut out of these things for weeks afterwards the very things for weeks afterwards the very things for weeks afterwards the very belt armor that is supposed to make belt armor that is supposed to make belt armor that is supposed to make these ships a protective place for their these ships a protective place for their these ships a protective place for their Crews making it harder to cut into Crews making it harder to cut into Crews making it harder to cut into and there will also be people that don't and there will also be people that don't and there will also be people that don't get cut out of the ships in time and are get cut out of the ships in time and are get cut out of the ships in time and are found later sometimes much later dead found later sometimes much later dead found later sometimes much later dead inomed in their ships with calendars inomed in their ships with calendars inomed in their ships with calendars often marking each day that they were often marking each day that they were often marking each day that they were often in total darkness trapped under often in total darkness trapped under often in total darkness trapped under there to give you an idea of the speed there to give you an idea of the speed there to give you an idea of the speed of these attacks the big wigs in the of these attacks the big wigs in the of these attacks the big wigs in the military on the island can kind of see military on the island can kind of see military on the island can kind of see the smoke they have these wonderful

the smoke they have these wonderful the smoke they have these wonderful homes sometimes even overlooking the homes sometimes even overlooking the homes sometimes even overlooking the area around Pearl Harbor uh General area around Pearl Harbor uh General area around Pearl Harbor uh General Walter short sees this Admiral husband Walter short sees this Admiral husband Walter short sees this Admiral husband Kimmel sees this and um get a chance to Kimmel sees this and um get a chance to Kimmel sees this and um get a chance to watch some of this unfold as it happens watch some of this unfold as it happens watch some of this unfold as it happens um there's a famous story uh General um there's a famous story uh General um there's a famous story uh General short sees the smoke while he's having short sees the smoke while he's having short sees the smoke while he's having Sunday breakfast with his wife uh runs Sunday breakfast with his wife uh runs Sunday breakfast with his wife uh runs to his Center to ask what's going on uh to his Center to ask what's going on uh to his Center to ask what's going on uh ask Lieutenant Colonel George bnell ask Lieutenant Colonel George bnell ask Lieutenant Colonel George bnell what's going on out there and bnell says what's going on out there and bnell says what's going on out there and bnell says I'm not sure General but I just saw two I'm not sure General but I just saw two I'm not sure General but I just saw two battleships sunk battleships sunk battleships sunk and then short screams that's and then short screams that's and then short screams that's ridiculous Admiral Kimmel's having a ridiculous Admiral Kimmel's having a ridiculous Admiral Kimmel's having a similar experience and he'll get blamed similar experience and he'll get blamed similar experience and he'll get blamed for a lot of this after the war didn't for a lot of this after the war didn't for a lot of this after the war didn't put out the torpedo nets all kinds of put out the torpedo nets all kinds of put out the torpedo nets all kinds of things he's the one that asked his things he's the one that asked his things he's the one that asked his associate you know what the probability associate you know what the probability associate you know what the probability of a Japanese Air Attack was and the guy of a Japanese Air Attack was and the guy of a Japanese Air Attack was and the guy said none absolutely none and now he's said none absolutely none and now he's said none absolutely none and now he's watching in disbelief in real time you watching in disbelief in real time you watching in disbelief in real time you know what's going on out there and it's know what's going on out there and it's know what's going on out there and it's it's almost heartbreaking unless of it's almost heartbreaking unless of it's almost heartbreaking unless of course you know you blame him for the course you know you blame him for the course you know you blame him for the whole whole whole thing author Craig Nelson in Pearl thing author Craig Nelson in Pearl thing author Craig Nelson in Pearl Harbor from infamy to Greatness writes Harbor from infamy to Greatness writes Harbor from infamy to Greatness writes quote an officer phoned Admiral husband quote an officer phoned Admiral husband quote an officer phoned Admiral husband Kimmel at home with the news that Kimmel at home with the news that Kimmel at home with the news that Japanese planes were attacking his Fleet Japanese planes were attacking his Fleet Japanese planes were attacking his Fleet the Admiral was still buttoning his the Admiral was still buttoning his the Admiral was still buttoning his white uniform as he ran out of the house white uniform as he ran out of the house white uniform as he ran out of the house and onto the neighboring lawn of the and onto the neighboring lawn of the and onto the neighboring lawn of the district's Chief of Staff Captain John district's Chief of Staff Captain John district's Chief of Staff Captain John early which had a panoramic view of early which had a panoramic view of early which had a panoramic view of Battleship row Mrs early said later that Battleship row Mrs early said later that Battleship row Mrs early said later that Kimmel stood quote in utter disbelief Kimmel stood quote in utter disbelief Kimmel stood quote in utter disbelief and completely stunned his face as white

and completely stunned his face as white and completely stunned his face as white as the uniform he wore end as the uniform he wore end as the uniform he wore end quote now quoting Kimmel quote the sky quote now quoting Kimmel quote the sky quote now quoting Kimmel quote the sky was full of the enemy Kimmel said later was full of the enemy Kimmel said later was full of the enemy Kimmel said later he saw the Arizona quote lift out of the he saw the Arizona quote lift out of the he saw the Arizona quote lift out of the water then sink back down way down end water then sink back down way down end water then sink back down way down end quote Mrs early he writes saw a quote Mrs early he writes saw a quote Mrs early he writes saw a battleship capsize and said looks like battleship capsize and said looks like battleship capsize and said looks like they've got the Oklahoma yes I can see they've got the Oklahoma yes I can see they've got the Oklahoma yes I can see that they have the Admiral numbly resp that they have the Admiral numbly resp that they have the Admiral numbly resp responded Nelson responded Nelson responded Nelson writes other people encountered Kimmel writes other people encountered Kimmel writes other people encountered Kimmel right around the same right around the same right around the same time Kimmel and his associates send a time Kimmel and his associates send a time Kimmel and his associates send a message to the Pacific Fleet and back to message to the Pacific Fleet and back to message to the Pacific Fleet and back to Washington saying you know Pearl Washington saying you know Pearl Washington saying you know Pearl Harbor's under attack he orders that the Harbor's under attack he orders that the Harbor's under attack he orders that the enemy force be found and then one enemy force be found and then one enemy force be found and then one officer remembered and is quoted by officer remembered and is quoted by officer remembered and is quoted by Nelson as saying quote I ran over to my Nelson as saying quote I ran over to my Nelson as saying quote I ran over to my offices and I happened to be standing offices and I happened to be standing offices and I happened to be standing alongside the commander-in-chief himself alongside the commander-in-chief himself alongside the commander-in-chief himself at Admiral Kimmel we were glumly at Admiral Kimmel we were glumly at Admiral Kimmel we were glumly watching the Havoc the Carnage that was watching the Havoc the Carnage that was watching the Havoc the Carnage that was going on and suddenly he reached up and going on and suddenly he reached up and going on and suddenly he reached up and tore off his four star shoulder boards tore off his four star shoulder boards tore off his four star shoulder boards which indicated his Rank and title as which indicated his Rank and title as which indicated his Rank and title as commander-in-chief Pacific Fleet he commander-in-chief Pacific Fleet he commander-in-chief Pacific Fleet he stepped into his adjacent offices and stepped into his adjacent offices and stepped into his adjacent offices and realizing he was going to lose command realizing he was going to lose command realizing he was going to lose command dawned two star rear Admiral shoulder dawned two star rear Admiral shoulder dawned two star rear Admiral shoulder boards end quote and then uh Nelson boards end quote and then uh Nelson boards end quote and then uh Nelson relates uh his version of a famous story relates uh his version of a famous story relates uh his version of a famous story that's told a number of different ways that's told a number of different ways that's told a number of different ways but right

but right but right around that exact moment a bullet around that exact moment a bullet around that exact moment a bullet ricochets into the house it's a spent 50 ricochets into the house it's a spent 50 ricochets into the house it's a spent 50 caliber shell is what I read somewhere caliber shell is what I read somewhere caliber shell is what I read somewhere which would probably indicate that it which would probably indicate that it which would probably indicate that it was an American bullet um but it was so was an American bullet um but it was so was an American bullet um but it was so spent that it hit him in the chest and spent that it hit him in the chest and spent that it hit him in the chest and just bounced off and left a mark on his just bounced off and left a mark on his just bounced off and left a mark on his white uniform and U he's quoted as white uniform and U he's quoted as white uniform and U he's quoted as saying several things uh Nelson has him saying several things uh Nelson has him saying several things uh Nelson has him saying I wish it had killed me but the saying I wish it had killed me but the saying I wish it had killed me but the variations are such that it's sort of a variations are such that it's sort of a variations are such that it's sort of a ruul dark joke ruul dark joke ruul dark joke that that would have been better than that that would have been better than that that would have been better than what he's going to face now being what he's going to face now being what he's going to face now being responsible for this immense responsible for this immense responsible for this immense Carnage that is visible to him a Carnage Carnage that is visible to him a Carnage Carnage that is visible to him a Carnage that is described over and over in its that is described over and over in its that is described over and over in its unbelieva some of these people will come unbelieva some of these people will come unbelieva some of these people will come up from below decks on these ships that up from below decks on these ships that up from below decks on these ships that have settled into the mud of Pearl have settled into the mud of Pearl have settled into the mud of Pearl Harbor if they had been sunk by the way Harbor if they had been sunk by the way Harbor if they had been sunk by the way out at Sea they would have been lost out at Sea they would have been lost out at Sea they would have been lost forever but a bunch of these ships just forever but a bunch of these ships just forever but a bunch of these ships just sort of settle there are heroic efforts sort of settle there are heroic efforts sort of settle there are heroic efforts by the crews to counter flood them and by the crews to counter flood them and by the crews to counter flood them and save them but there's a lot of people save them but there's a lot of people save them but there's a lot of people trapped trapped trapped them and when they come up and they look them and when they come up and they look them and when they come up and they look around remember the world that they last around remember the world that they last around remember the world that they last Saw had blue skies and this marvelous Saw had blue skies and this marvelous Saw had blue skies and this marvelous glorious us Pacific Fleet and they come glorious us Pacific Fleet and they come glorious us Pacific Fleet and they come up from the water and there's bodies up from the water and there's bodies up from the water and there's bodies floating everywhere the ships are all floating everywhere the ships are all floating everywhere the ships are all falling apart and smoking and and you falling apart and smoking and and you falling apart and smoking and and you can't even see the sky through all the can't even see the sky through all the can't even see the sky through all the black smoke as the oil burns off the black smoke as the oil burns off the black smoke as the oil burns off the ocean their world has been ocean their world has been ocean their world has been transformed they've gone from a Pacific transformed they've gone from a Pacific transformed they've gone from a Pacific Paradise to a naval vers Paradise to a naval vers Paradise to a naval vers of Dante's

of Dante's of Dante's Inferno in a matter of Inferno in a matter of Inferno in a matter of minutes and all of this Carnage and all minutes and all of this Carnage and all minutes and all of this Carnage and all this damage and all this Destruction has this damage and all this Destruction has this damage and all this Destruction has been wrought by the first Japanese been wrought by the first Japanese been wrought by the first Japanese attack wave remember there's another attack wave remember there's another attack wave remember there's another attack wave not that far behind attack wave not that far behind attack wave not that far behind them and not long after the first wave them and not long after the first wave them and not long after the first wave departs the second one swoops departs the second one swoops departs the second one swoops in a couple of ships heroically a couple in a couple of ships heroically a couple in a couple of ships heroically a couple of Destroyers the Battleship Nevada of Destroyers the Battleship Nevada of Destroyers the Battleship Nevada heroically have managed Against All Odds heroically have managed Against All Odds heroically have managed Against All Odds to start moving making it look like you to start moving making it look like you to start moving making it look like you know we're back already I mean already know we're back already I mean already know we're back already I mean already you know 30 minutes 35 minutes 45 you know 30 minutes 35 minutes 45 you know 30 minutes 35 minutes 45 minutes after a surprise attack the minutes after a surprise attack the minutes after a surprise attack the American fleet's on the move and it was American fleet's on the move and it was American fleet's on the move and it was inspirational to all who could see it inspirational to all who could see it inspirational to all who could see it those ships attracted the specific those ships attracted the specific those ships attracted the specific attention of the second wave who goes attention of the second wave who goes attention of the second wave who goes after them with Vigor the Nevada will after them with Vigor the Nevada will after them with Vigor the Nevada will have to be beached in the sand to keep have to be beached in the sand to keep have to be beached in the sand to keep from from from sinking within 90 minutes it's all over sinking within 90 minutes it's all over sinking within 90 minutes it's all over from start to finish the planes fly off from start to finish the planes fly off from start to finish the planes fly off and Pearl Harbor is left a smoking and Pearl Harbor is left a smoking and Pearl Harbor is left a smoking Devastation with dead and wounded Devastation with dead and wounded Devastation with dead and wounded everywhere more than 2400 people die in everywhere more than 2400 people die in everywhere more than 2400 people die in this 90 minutes more than a thousand are this 90 minutes more than a thousand are this 90 minutes more than a thousand are wounded almost 200 planes are destroyed wounded almost 200 planes are destroyed wounded almost 200 planes are destroyed on the ground more than 150 are damaged on the ground more than 150 are damaged on the ground more than 150 are damaged and the entire Battleship complement of and the entire Battleship complement of and the entire Battleship complement of the US Pacific Fleet is rendered useless the US Pacific Fleet is rendered useless the US Pacific Fleet is rendered useless four ships sunk the others burning and

four ships sunk the others burning and four ships sunk the others burning and damaged the Japanese lose less than 30 damaged the Japanese lose less than 30 damaged the Japanese lose less than 30 planes there's no possible way if you planes there's no possible way if you planes there's no possible way if you are on the Japanese side to look at this are on the Japanese side to look at this are on the Japanese side to look at this and not see this as a huge Victory when and not see this as a huge Victory when and not see this as a huge Victory when you measure it you know from a cost to you measure it you know from a cost to you measure it you know from a cost to benefit standpoint right less than 30 benefit standpoint right less than 30 benefit standpoint right less than 30 planes and we did all that damage planes and we did all that damage planes and we did all that damage although there were Japanese at the time although there were Japanese at the time although there were Japanese at the time who noticed you know a silver line who noticed you know a silver line who noticed you know a silver line from the Americans Viewpoint from the Americans Viewpoint from the Americans Viewpoint anyway and that's that the battleships anyway and that's that the battleships anyway and that's that the battleships may have been destroyed and put out of may have been destroyed and put out of may have been destroyed and put out of commission but the carriers of the US commission but the carriers of the US commission but the carriers of the US Pacific Fleet which had been at Pearl Pacific Fleet which had been at Pearl Pacific Fleet which had been at Pearl Harbor not that long ago weren't there Harbor not that long ago weren't there Harbor not that long ago weren't there when the attack when the attack when the attack happened and that means that the weapon happened and that means that the weapon happened and that means that the weapon system that few Only The Visionaries had system that few Only The Visionaries had system that few Only The Visionaries had seen as the next big thing in Naval seen as the next big thing in Naval seen as the next big thing in Naval Warfare that means that right after the Warfare that means that right after the Warfare that means that right after the battle that just proved conclusively battle that just proved conclusively battle that just proved conclusively that aircraft carriers were the next big that aircraft carriers were the next big that aircraft carriers were the next big thing in Naval Warfare didn't get any of thing in Naval Warfare didn't get any of thing in Naval Warfare didn't get any of the enemy's aircraft carriers and the the enemy's aircraft carriers and the the enemy's aircraft carriers and the United States's carriers that managed to United States's carriers that managed to United States's carriers that managed to be away from Pearl Harbor on December be away from Pearl Harbor on December be away from Pearl Harbor on December 7th will be instrumental in avenging 7th will be instrumental in avenging 7th will be instrumental in avenging what was done what was done what was done there knocking out the battleship there knocking out the battleship there knocking out the battleship component of the Pacific Fleet is a big component of the Pacific Fleet is a big component of the Pacific Fleet is a big blow the human lives are blow the human lives are blow the human lives are irreplaceable but let's be honest these irreplaceable but let's be honest these irreplaceable but let's be honest these battleships were not even Cutting Edge battleships were not even Cutting Edge battleships were not even Cutting Edge battleships most of them dated back to battleships most of them dated back to battleships most of them dated back to the first world war some of them were

the first world war some of them were the first world war some of them were even older than that useful at a bunch even older than that useful at a bunch even older than that useful at a bunch of things surely but if you're someone of things surely but if you're someone of things surely but if you're someone like Winston like Winston like Winston Churchill the most useful thing these Churchill the most useful thing these Churchill the most useful thing these battleships maybe did in terms of battleships maybe did in terms of battleships maybe did in terms of helping win the war was exactly what helping win the war was exactly what helping win the war was exactly what they did do and he did not see the Pearl they did do and he did not see the Pearl they did do and he did not see the Pearl Harbor strike as a Harbor strike as a Harbor strike as a tragedy a better word might have been tragedy a better word might have been tragedy a better word might have been heroic a necessary sacrifice to get the heroic a necessary sacrifice to get the heroic a necessary sacrifice to get the United States to do something that from United States to do something that from United States to do something that from his point of view they should have his point of view they should have his point of view they should have already already already done it's probably not accurate it's done it's probably not accurate it's done it's probably not accurate it's probably a misquote but one of the lines probably a misquote but one of the lines probably a misquote but one of the lines attributed to Winston Churchill I always attributed to Winston Churchill I always attributed to Winston Churchill I always grew up hearing it was that you could grew up hearing it was that you could grew up hearing it was that you could always count on the Americans to do the always count on the Americans to do the always count on the Americans to do the right thing after all the other options right thing after all the other options right thing after all the other options had been had been had been exhausted in this case the attack on exhausted in this case the attack on exhausted in this case the attack on Pearl Harbor eliminated any other Pearl Harbor eliminated any other Pearl Harbor eliminated any other options it aroused a sleeping giant to a options it aroused a sleeping giant to a options it aroused a sleeping giant to a level of Wrath that would carry it level of Wrath that would carry it level of Wrath that would carry it forward through any misfortunes to an forward through any misfortunes to an forward through any misfortunes to an ending that a guy like Winston Churchill ending that a guy like Winston Churchill ending that a guy like Winston Churchill saw as saw as saw as inevitable the United States was shocked inevitable the United States was shocked inevitable the United States was shocked and saddened and emot Ally upset by the and saddened and emot Ally upset by the and saddened and emot Ally upset by the Pearl Harbor attacks a guy like Winston Pearl Harbor attacks a guy like Winston Pearl Harbor attacks a guy like Winston Churchill was elated because to him

Churchill was elated because to him Churchill was elated because to him December 7th December 7th December 7th 1941 was the day that the war was 1941 was the day that the war was 1941 was the day that the war was decided and Britain was going to be on decided and Britain was going to be on decided and Britain was going to be on The Winning Side after all he wrote The Winning Side after all he wrote The Winning Side after all he wrote after the war about his feelings at this after the war about his feelings at this after the war about his feelings at this moment and said moment and said moment and said quote no American will think it wrong of quote no American will think it wrong of quote no American will think it wrong of me if I proclaimed that to have the me if I proclaimed that to have the me if I proclaimed that to have the United States at our side was to me the United States at our side was to me the United States at our side was to me the greatest joy I could not foretell the greatest joy I could not foretell the greatest joy I could not foretell the course of events I do not pretend to course of events I do not pretend to course of events I do not pretend to have measured accurately the martial have measured accurately the martial have measured accurately the martial might of Japan but now at this very might of Japan but now at this very might of Japan but now at this very moment I knew the United States was in moment I knew the United States was in moment I knew the United States was in the war up to the neck and into the the war up to the neck and into the the war up to the neck and into the death so we had won after all yes after death so we had won after all yes after death so we had won after all yes after Dunkirk after the fall of France after Dunkirk after the fall of France after Dunkirk after the fall of France after the horrible episode of Iran after the the horrible episode of Iran after the the horrible episode of Iran after the threat of invasion when apart from the threat of invasion when apart from the threat of invasion when apart from the air and the Navy we were an almost air and the Navy we were an almost air and the Navy we were an almost unarmed people after the deadly struggle unarmed people after the deadly struggle unarmed people after the deadly struggle of the ubot war the first battle of the of the ubot war the first battle of the of the ubot war the first battle of the Atlantic gained by a hand's breath after Atlantic gained by a hand's breath after Atlantic gained by a hand's breath after 17 months of lonely fighting and 19 17 months of lonely fighting and 19 17 months of lonely fighting and 19 months of my own responsibility and dire months of my own responsibility and dire months of my own responsibility and dire stress we had won the war England would stress we had won the war England would stress we had won the war England would live Britain would live the Commonwealth live Britain would live the Commonwealth live Britain would live the Commonwealth of Nations and the Empire would live how of Nations and the Empire would live how of Nations and the Empire would live how long long the war would last or in what long long the war would last or in what long long the war would last or in what fashion it would end no man could tell fashion it would end no man could tell fashion it would end no man could tell nor did I at this moment care once again nor did I at this moment care once again nor did I at this moment care once again in our Long Island history we should

in our Long Island history we should in our Long Island history we should emerge however M or mutilated safe and emerge however M or mutilated safe and emerge however M or mutilated safe and Victorious we should not be wiped out Victorious we should not be wiped out Victorious we should not be wiped out our history would not come to an end we our history would not come to an end we our history would not come to an end we might not even have to die as might not even have to die as might not even have to die as individuals Hitler's fate was sealed individuals Hitler's fate was sealed individuals Hitler's fate was sealed melini's fate was sealed as for the melini's fate was sealed as for the melini's fate was sealed as for the Japanese they would be ground to Japanese they would be ground to Japanese they would be ground to powder end quote don't forget that all the older quote don't forget that all the older Hardcore History shows are available for Hardcore History shows are available for Hardcore History shows are available for purchase from iTunes or dancarlin.com if purchase from iTunes or dancarlin.com if purchase from iTunes or dancarlin.com if you think the show you just heard is you think the show you just heard is you think the show you just heard is worth a dollar Dan and Ben would love to worth a dollar Dan and Ben would love to worth a dollar Dan and Ben would love to have it go to dancarlin.com for have it go to dancarlin.com for have it go to dancarlin.com for information on how to donate to the show information on how to donate to the show information on how to donate to the show for the latest news and thoughts from for the latest news and thoughts from for the latest news and thoughts from Dan make sure to follow his history feed Dan make sure to follow his history feed Dan make sure to follow his history feed on Twitter the address is Hardcore on Twitter the address is Hardcore on Twitter the address is Hardcore History coming up while the Pearl Harbor History coming up while the Pearl Harbor History coming up while the Pearl Harbor attacks are going on pretty much attacks are going on pretty much attacks are going on pretty much simultaneously a Japanese Blitz creg is simultaneously a Japanese Blitz creg is simultaneously a Japanese Blitz creg is occurring in Asia and the Pacific the occurring in Asia and the Pacific the occurring in Asia and the Pacific the largest Battlefield in human history largest Battlefield in human history largest Battlefield in human history that will that will that will succeed in part because of the West's succeed in part because of the West's succeed in part because of the West's underestimation of Japanese capabilities underestimation of Japanese capabilities underestimation of Japanese capabilities and this is for all s of reasons and this is for all s of reasons and this is for all s of reasons including racial ones some of these including racial ones some of these including racial ones some of these Colonial powers do not believe and maybe Colonial powers do not believe and maybe Colonial powers do not believe and maybe a lot of Americans don't either that an a lot of Americans don't either that an a lot of Americans don't either that an Asian they would have said Oriental at Asian they would have said Oriental at Asian they would have said Oriental at the time people were capable of

the time people were capable of the time people were capable of something like what the Japanese are something like what the Japanese are something like what the Japanese are about to pull off but there's a reason about to pull off but there's a reason about to pull off but there's a reason we called this series Supernova in the we called this series Supernova in the we called this series Supernova in the East and this is where we see the East and this is where we see the East and this is where we see the Japanese Rising Sun explode and Conquer Japanese Rising Sun explode and Conquer Japanese Rising Sun explode and Conquer territories over a wide area and the territories over a wide area and the territories over a wide area and the United States angry United States angry United States angry roused but groggy is in no position to roused but groggy is in no position to roused but groggy is in no position to do anything about it right away for do anything about it right away for do anything about it right away for those of you who've been missing the those of you who've been missing the those of you who've been missing the combat element of this story and let's combat element of this story and let's combat element of this story and let's remember for a long time the histories remember for a long time the histories remember for a long time the histories of this story in the American history of this story in the American history of this story in the American history book started with Pearl Harbor we're book started with Pearl Harbor we're book started with Pearl Harbor we're eight hours into this series let the eight hours into this series let the eight hours into this series let the record show there's some context but record show there's some context but record show there's some context but this is the part of combat operations this is the part of combat operations this is the part of combat operations that most Pacific War Fishin AOS are that most Pacific War Fishin AOS are that most Pacific War Fishin AOS are familiar with and that's coming up along familiar with and that's coming up along familiar with and that's coming up along with all the other stuff of course all with all the other stuff of course all with all the other stuff of course all that more as we like to say in part that more as we like to say in part that more as we like to say in part three of supernova in the East due out three of supernova in the East due out three of supernova in the East due out in about 10 years given our current in about 10 years given our current in about 10 years given our current schedule but we try thanks for all the schedule but we try thanks for all the schedule but we try thanks for all the support