Spud Cell: Synthetic Cell and the Intelligence Problem

>> I >> I want to start off by heaping a little want to start off by heaping a little want to start off by heaping a little bit of praise on on these authors here bit of praise on on these authors here bit of praise on on these authors here because not only because they're from my because not only because they're from my because not only because they're from my hometown here in Minnesota hometown here in Minnesota hometown here in Minnesota and my wife is also a professor of and my wife is also a professor of and my wife is also a professor of engineering there at the University of engineering there at the University of engineering there at the University of Minnesota, but um Minnesota, but um Minnesota, but um they did some genuinely ingenious and they did some genuinely ingenious and they did some genuinely ingenious and creative work in a very difficult area creative work in a very difficult area creative work in a very difficult area to work upon. Um we're going to go to work upon. Um we're going to go to work upon. Um we're going to go through a lot of the details, but uh through a lot of the details, but uh through a lot of the details, but uh when you see all the optimization effort when you see all the optimization effort when you see all the optimization effort and we're talking about nano scale and we're talking about nano scale and we're talking about nano scale manipulation of manipulation of manipulation of of molecules in order to get some of of molecules in order to get some of of molecules in order to get some of these results. It's really quite these results. It's really quite these results. It's really quite impressive. impressive. impressive. Um Um Um I know Ancel, you've you've looked at I know Ancel, you've you've looked at I know Ancel, you've you've looked at this too with some glaring eyes, yeah? this too with some glaring eyes, yeah? this too with some glaring eyes, yeah? >> Yeah, I think when I first looked at it >> Yeah, I think when I first looked at it >> Yeah, I think when I first looked at it and and and it's just really impressive. Lots of, it's just really impressive. Lots of, it's just really impressive. Lots of, you know, the engineer in me is like, you know, the engineer in me is like, you know, the engineer in me is like, "Wow, that that was very clever." Lots "Wow, that that was very clever." Lots "Wow, that that was very clever." Lots of very of very of very uh uh uh clever and smart uh hacks and tricks to clever and smart uh hacks and tricks to clever and smart uh hacks and tricks to pull together, you know, pull together, you know, pull together, you know, a handful of existing synthetic cell a handful of existing synthetic cell a handful of existing synthetic cell ideas and like composing them in a new ideas and like composing them in a new ideas and like composing them in a new way, composing them in a new way that I way, composing them in a new way that I way, composing them in a new way that I think does yield some really interesting think does yield some really interesting think does yield some really interesting new results. And I think to their new results. And I think to their new results. And I think to their credit, you know, credit, you know, credit, you know, maybe they've added a little bit to the maybe they've added a little bit to the maybe they've added a little bit to the hype that we've all been experiencing by hype that we've all been experiencing by hype that we've all been experiencing by sort of making this more of a media sort of making this more of a media sort of making this more of a media event before it got published. Um but uh event before it got published. Um but uh event before it got published. Um but uh I think in their words, by and large, I think in their words, by and large, I think in their words, by and large, they've been reasonably reserved uh they've been reasonably reserved uh they've been reasonably reserved uh about the claims they're making and about the claims they're making and about the claims they're making and they're not they're not really pushing they're not they're not really pushing they're not they're not really pushing too hard into the the hype narrative too hard into the the hype narrative too hard into the the hype narrative we've been hearing, but uh yeah, I think we've been hearing, but uh yeah, I think we've been hearing, but uh yeah, I think from an engineering point of view, it's from an engineering point of view, it's from an engineering point of view, it's it's really it's really quite something it's really it's really quite something it's really it's really quite something and so I'm excited to dig into the

and so I'm excited to dig into the and so I'm excited to dig into the details together. details together. details together. >> It's also interesting to note that we're >> It's also interesting to note that we're >> It's also interesting to note that we're in kind of a new world where this is in kind of a new world where this is in kind of a new world where this is Note that this is not a peer-reviewed Note that this is not a peer-reviewed Note that this is not a peer-reviewed paper we're showing here. This is a it's paper we're showing here. This is a it's paper we're showing here. This is a it's a pre-review paper, which used to be a pre-review paper, which used to be a pre-review paper, which used to be that you couldn't create any hype before that you couldn't create any hype before that you couldn't create any hype before publication, but now we're in a new publication, but now we're in a new publication, but now we're in a new world, which is kind of weird. Um this world, which is kind of weird. Um this world, which is kind of weird. Um this is a bioRxiv paper and there's a lot of is a bioRxiv paper and there's a lot of is a bioRxiv paper and there's a lot of hype about it. So, I wanted to step back hype about it. So, I wanted to step back hype about it. So, I wanted to step back and look at the really big picture here, and look at the really big picture here, and look at the really big picture here, the really grand picture of how people the really grand picture of how people the really grand picture of how people are trying to study how life began and are trying to study how life began and are trying to study how life began and trying to see what is the requirements trying to see what is the requirements trying to see what is the requirements for life, help us to define what life is for life, help us to define what life is for life, help us to define what life is and what it isn't. And here's a way of and what it isn't. And here's a way of and what it isn't. And here's a way of looking at it. If we just put complexity looking at it. If we just put complexity looking at it. If we just put complexity on this axis, you know, things that are on this axis, you know, things that are on this axis, you know, things that are more complex move to the top. There are more complex move to the top. There are more complex move to the top. There are people who are studying this problem people who are studying this problem people who are studying this problem with with more of a top-down approach, with with more of a top-down approach, with with more of a top-down approach, meaning that they're taking existing meaning that they're taking existing meaning that they're taking existing life, you know, even the simplest kinds life, you know, even the simplest kinds life, you know, even the simplest kinds of existing life and then working to try of existing life and then working to try of existing life and then working to try to dumb them down, strip out things that to dumb them down, strip out things that to dumb them down, strip out things that aren't necessary to try to reach this aren't necessary to try to reach this aren't necessary to try to reach this boundary of what is life and what isn't boundary of what is life and what isn't boundary of what is life and what isn't life. life. life. And the most famous example of that is And the most famous example of that is And the most famous example of that is from Craig Venter's group.

from Craig Venter's group. from Craig Venter's group. May he rest in peace, but Craig Venter May he rest in peace, but Craig Venter May he rest in peace, but Craig Venter passed away about a month ago. But he passed away about a month ago. But he passed away about a month ago. But he took um took um took um Mycoplasma mycoides, which is a really Mycoplasma mycoides, which is a really Mycoplasma mycoides, which is a really simple simple simple bacteria, very very simple bacteria. It bacteria, very very simple bacteria. It bacteria, very very simple bacteria. It only has like 985 genes. only has like 985 genes. only has like 985 genes. And it's only found in the in ruminants. And it's only found in the in ruminants. And it's only found in the in ruminants. Uh it lives uh it basically causes Uh it lives uh it basically causes Uh it lives uh it basically causes pneumonia. And uh so it's kind of a pneumonia. And uh so it's kind of a pneumonia. And uh so it's kind of a parasite, you know, it needs some other parasite, you know, it needs some other parasite, you know, it needs some other living organism to live and it's quite living organism to live and it's quite living organism to live and it's quite simple. But Craig Venter's group simple. But Craig Venter's group simple. But Craig Venter's group worked quite hard to strip it down and worked quite hard to strip it down and worked quite hard to strip it down and they took it down to what they call JCVI they took it down to what they call JCVI they took it down to what they call JCVI Syn3A. Syn3A. Syn3A. And that organism has only 493 genes. And that organism has only 493 genes. And that organism has only 493 genes. So, that's quite an impressive So, that's quite an impressive So, that's quite an impressive simplification. Most of what's left is simplification. Most of what's left is simplification. Most of what's left is essential and some of what's left they essential and some of what's left they essential and some of what's left they still don't understand what it does, still don't understand what it does, still don't understand what it does, which is really interesting. But this which is really interesting. But this which is really interesting. But this organism is is really simple. It can organism is is really simple. It can organism is is really simple. It can really live only in the lab because it really live only in the lab because it really live only in the lab because it requires this kind of coddled requires this kind of coddled requires this kind of coddled environment. It's kind of like an environment. It's kind of like an environment. It's kind of like an intensive care unit kind of support intensive care unit kind of support intensive care unit kind of support system because you have to give it system because you have to give it system because you have to give it exactly the food that it needs in the exactly the food that it needs in the exactly the food that it needs in the right concentration, the right pH, and right concentration, the right pH, and right concentration, the right pH, and you have to clean up its waste you have to clean up its waste you have to clean up its waste um and do all the work for it, um and do all the work for it, um and do all the work for it, basically. Now, contrast that basically. Now, contrast that basically. Now, contrast that with a very robust organism. Uh this one with a very robust organism. Uh this one with a very robust organism. Uh this one I pull out is called Desulfurudis audax I pull out is called Desulfurudis audax I pull out is called Desulfurudis audax viator. Uh this was found 2.8 km viator. Uh this was found 2.8 km viator. Uh this was found 2.8 km underground in a in a mine.

underground in a in a mine. underground in a in a mine. And it is said to be the only known And it is said to be the only known And it is said to be the only known organism that lives in its own ecosystem organism that lives in its own ecosystem organism that lives in its own ecosystem all by itself. And it's got 2,157 genes. all by itself. And it's got 2,157 genes. all by itself. And it's got 2,157 genes. So this is an analogy. You would say So this is an analogy. You would say So this is an analogy. You would say this is like a contestant on the on the this is like a contestant on the on the this is like a contestant on the on the TV series Alone. TV series Alone. TV series Alone. It has to live completely alone in its It has to live completely alone in its It has to live completely alone in its own environment and take care of own environment and take care of own environment and take care of everything for itself. You know, very everything for itself. You know, very everything for itself. You know, very robust, very resilient, very resourceful robust, very resilient, very resourceful robust, very resilient, very resourceful kind of organism. And as we as we look kind of organism. And as we as we look kind of organism. And as we as we look at how stripping things down, you know, at how stripping things down, you know, at how stripping things down, you know, this JCVI-syn3A this JCVI-syn3A this JCVI-syn3A is more analogous to like a 90-year-old is more analogous to like a 90-year-old is more analogous to like a 90-year-old who's in intensive care unit on who's in intensive care unit on who's in intensive care unit on dialysis. dialysis. dialysis. You know, with various machines hooked You know, with various machines hooked You know, with various machines hooked up to it trying to keep it alive. It's up to it trying to keep it alive. It's up to it trying to keep it alive. It's quite different from this very quite different from this very quite different from this very complicated organism. So we can kind of complicated organism. So we can kind of complicated organism. So we can kind of I hope we can all agree that the number I hope we can all agree that the number I hope we can all agree that the number of requirements placed on the organism of requirements placed on the organism of requirements placed on the organism is being simplified here as we try to is being simplified here as we try to is being simplified here as we try to dumb it down and try to find a boundary dumb it down and try to find a boundary dumb it down and try to find a boundary of where life is. of where life is. of where life is. But what you don't often hear about and But what you don't often hear about and But what you don't often hear about and I've never actually seen anyone discuss I've never actually seen anyone discuss I've never actually seen anyone discuss this, but as you reduce the requirements this, but as you reduce the requirements this, but as you reduce the requirements on the organism, all you're doing is on the organism, all you're doing is on the organism, all you're doing is actually dumping those requirements onto actually dumping those requirements onto actually dumping those requirements onto the environment.

the environment. the environment. You see down here the environment has to You see down here the environment has to You see down here the environment has to do everything for this organism, do everything for this organism, do everything for this organism, providing just the right food, just the providing just the right food, just the providing just the right food, just the right pH, the right concentrations, right pH, the right concentrations, right pH, the right concentrations, clean up the waste. You know, whereas up clean up the waste. You know, whereas up clean up the waste. You know, whereas up here there's very few requirements here there's very few requirements here there's very few requirements placed on the organism. placed on the organism. placed on the organism. So it's not like requirements go away. So it's not like requirements go away. So it's not like requirements go away. It's just that they get displaced and It's just that they get displaced and It's just that they get displaced and and put over here onto the environment. and put over here onto the environment. and put over here onto the environment. So there is So there is So there is um a boundary here that is not well um a boundary here that is not well um a boundary here that is not well defined because people aren't we're not defined because people aren't we're not defined because people aren't we're not really able to define exactly what life really able to define exactly what life really able to define exactly what life is. So this is fuzzy, not so clear. is. So this is fuzzy, not so clear. is. So this is fuzzy, not so clear. But we can say that at some point you'll But we can say that at some point you'll But we can say that at some point you'll reach this boundary where life itself reach this boundary where life itself reach this boundary where life itself can't exist [snorts] or isn't can't exist [snorts] or isn't can't exist [snorts] or isn't sustainable anymore. sustainable anymore. sustainable anymore. And to have sustaining life, you know, And to have sustaining life, you know, And to have sustaining life, you know, it has to be self-replicating, has to it has to be self-replicating, has to it has to be self-replicating, has to have a metabolism. have a metabolism. have a metabolism. And to think about it in thermodynamic And to think about it in thermodynamic And to think about it in thermodynamic terms, you know, everything up here is terms, you know, everything up here is terms, you know, everything up here is able to exist perpetually in a state able to exist perpetually in a state able to exist perpetually in a state that is far from thermodynamic that is far from thermodynamic that is far from thermodynamic equilibrium. It's in a highly organized, equilibrium. It's in a highly organized, equilibrium. It's in a highly organized, high-energy state. Whereas we go below high-energy state. Whereas we go below high-energy state. Whereas we go below the line, the line, the line, you know, it everything is moving toward you know, it everything is moving toward you know, it everything is moving toward thermodynamic equilibrium. You could say thermodynamic equilibrium. You could say thermodynamic equilibrium. You could say it's returning to dust. Everything is it's returning to dust. Everything is it's returning to dust. Everything is falling apart.

falling apart. falling apart. Um Um Um That's one way to try to define the That's one way to try to define the That's one way to try to define the boundary. Probably not the best way. boundary. Probably not the best way. boundary. Probably not the best way. Now, there are people who are Now, there are people who are Now, there are people who are approaching this challenge the other approaching this challenge the other approaching this challenge the other way, from the bottom up. And that's what way, from the bottom up. And that's what way, from the bottom up. And that's what today's paper is about. So, they're today's paper is about. So, they're today's paper is about. So, they're trying to take basic chemicals, trying to take basic chemicals, trying to take basic chemicals, work on things in a lab, build up the work on things in a lab, build up the work on things in a lab, build up the chemicals to try to move towards chemicals to try to move towards chemicals to try to move towards something that could be called living. something that could be called living. something that could be called living. And progress is being made there. And I And progress is being made there. And I And progress is being made there. And I would say, you know, this is all would say, you know, this is all would say, you know, this is all relative and cartoonish here in the relative and cartoonish here in the relative and cartoonish here in the diagram, but I would say the Spud cell diagram, but I would say the Spud cell diagram, but I would say the Spud cell is is is the Spud cell is the cell we're talking the Spud cell is the cell we're talking the Spud cell is the cell we're talking about, the synthetic cell. They came up about, the synthetic cell. They came up about, the synthetic cell. They came up with this cute name, Spud cell, for it. with this cute name, Spud cell, for it. with this cute name, Spud cell, for it. But it has 36 genes. And Roy is going to But it has 36 genes. And Roy is going to But it has 36 genes. And Roy is going to give us all the details of how you have give us all the details of how you have give us all the details of how you have to try to keep it moving. to try to keep it moving. to try to keep it moving. Uh but it basically is falling apart Uh but it basically is falling apart Uh but it basically is falling apart over time. And that's very clear. No one over time. And that's very clear. No one over time. And that's very clear. No one is claiming that this thing is alive. is claiming that this thing is alive. is claiming that this thing is alive. And we'll go through a lot of the And we'll go through a lot of the And we'll go through a lot of the limitations of it. But one thing that limitations of it. But one thing that limitations of it. But one thing that I'd like to point out here, and this is I'd like to point out here, and this is I'd like to point out here, and this is probably a little controversial, is that probably a little controversial, is that probably a little controversial, is that in order to get to the Spud cell, we in order to get to the Spud cell, we in order to get to the Spud cell, we need a lots of intelligence and lots of need a lots of intelligence and lots of need a lots of intelligence and lots of technology. And as we advance, we try to technology. And as we advance, we try to technology. And as we advance, we try to push forward, we're going to see more push forward, we're going to see more push forward, we're going to see more and more of that. And I believe, and I and more of that. And I believe, and I and more of that. And I believe, and I think the evidence really strongly think the evidence really strongly think the evidence really strongly supports this, supports this, supports this, that the amount of intelligence that's that the amount of intelligence that's that the amount of intelligence that's going to be required to advance is going going to be required to advance is going going to be required to advance is going to be explosive. It's going to go up to be explosive. It's going to go up to be explosive. It's going to go up exponentially, if not more than exponentially, if not more than exponentially, if not more than exponentially.

exponentially. exponentially. And that's because as you go from like And that's because as you go from like And that's because as you go from like 36 genes of complexity up to something 36 genes of complexity up to something 36 genes of complexity up to something like 400, 500, the complexity kind of like 400, 500, the complexity kind of like 400, 500, the complexity kind of gets factorial because of the gets factorial because of the gets factorial because of the interactome, because of the regulatory interactome, because of the regulatory interactome, because of the regulatory requirements, all the all the requirements, all the all the requirements, all the all the interactions that these different interactions that these different interactions that these different components can have that could be components can have that could be components can have that could be detrimental detrimental detrimental uh uh uh more easily than they are uh beneficial. more easily than they are uh beneficial. more easily than they are uh beneficial. So, congratulate I'm not trying to say So, congratulate I'm not trying to say So, congratulate I'm not trying to say this group has low intelligence here. this group has low intelligence here. this group has low intelligence here. Don't don't read that. There's a ton of Don't don't read that. There's a ton of Don't don't read that. There's a ton of intelligence and technology going into intelligence and technology going into intelligence and technology going into spud cell, but there is a vast in spud cell, but there is a vast in spud cell, but there is a vast in increase in that that's on the horizon increase in that that's on the horizon increase in that that's on the horizon if they want to do approach you know, if they want to do approach you know, if they want to do approach you know, something toward life. My own thinking, something toward life. My own thinking, something toward life. My own thinking, my own bias is that they will never get my own bias is that they will never get my own bias is that they will never get to a living a true living organism, but to a living a true living organism, but to a living a true living organism, but that's yet to be determined. And that's that's yet to be determined. And that's that's yet to be determined. And that's kind of why I draw the curve kind of why I draw the curve kind of why I draw the curve in this regard. One thing that surprises in this regard. One thing that surprises in this regard. One thing that surprises me the most about all of this me the most about all of this me the most about all of this is that the people working on it, like is that the people working on it, like is that the people working on it, like the authors we'll talk about today the authors we'll talk about today the authors we'll talk about today they are working very hard with all of they are working very hard with all of they are working very hard with all of their intelligence, all the technology their intelligence, all the technology their intelligence, all the technology and yet somehow seem very willing to and yet somehow seem very willing to and yet somehow seem very willing to believe that life did begin originally believe that life did begin originally believe that life did begin originally from purely natural processes from purely natural processes from purely natural processes that chemistry and physics and random that chemistry and physics and random that chemistry and physics and random mutations mutations mutations ended up producing life. And that that's ended up producing life. And that that's ended up producing life. And that that's so surprising to me because of how much so surprising to me because of how much so surprising to me because of how much intelligence they are putting into this.

intelligence they are putting into this. intelligence they are putting into this. And I want to put a few quotes here. We And I want to put a few quotes here. We And I want to put a few quotes here. We can we can have a discussion then, but can we can have a discussion then, but can we can have a discussion then, but um um um there's a lot of hype from the media we there's a lot of hype from the media we there's a lot of hype from the media we mentioned, but there's also some hype mentioned, but there's also some hype mentioned, but there's also some hype from scientists themselves. This is from from scientists themselves. This is from from scientists themselves. This is from Cyberin Auto who is a well-known origin Cyberin Auto who is a well-known origin Cyberin Auto who is a well-known origin of life of life of life researcher and he says researcher and he says researcher and he says this is a big step forward to the holy this is a big step forward to the holy this is a big step forward to the holy grail of making a living thing out of grail of making a living thing out of grail of making a living thing out of dead components. It's not completely dead components. It's not completely dead components. It's not completely there yet, but it's definitely getting there yet, but it's definitely getting there yet, but it's definitely getting quite close. quite close. quite close. And Royal's going to help us to see how And Royal's going to help us to see how And Royal's going to help us to see how close or not close it it actually is, close or not close it it actually is, close or not close it it actually is, but there's some there's some real hype but there's some there's some real hype but there's some there's some real hype there. there. there. And then from the the real the author of And then from the the real the author of And then from the the real the author of the paper, Kate the paper, Kate the paper, Kate uh we've replicated in chemistry what uh we've replicated in chemistry what uh we've replicated in chemistry what only used to be possible in biology, the only used to be possible in biology, the only used to be possible in biology, the complete set of behaviors of a cell. complete set of behaviors of a cell. complete set of behaviors of a cell. It proves that the most fundamental It proves that the most fundamental It proves that the most fundamental functions of life like growth and functions of life like growth and functions of life like growth and replication do not need a mysterious replication do not need a mysterious replication do not need a mysterious magical spark. magical spark. magical spark. And I'm not sure how she would define And I'm not sure how she would define And I'm not sure how she would define mysterious magical spark, but the amount mysterious magical spark, but the amount mysterious magical spark, but the amount of intelligence and technology that they of intelligence and technology that they of intelligence and technology that they have put into their work, I think, is have put into their work, I think, is have put into their work, I think, is already already already beyond what natural processes are going beyond what natural processes are going beyond what natural processes are going to accomplish, and somehow she doesn't to accomplish, and somehow she doesn't to accomplish, and somehow she doesn't want to want to want to give credit to their their own give credit to their their own give credit to their their own intelligence in doing that. So, intelligence in doing that. So, intelligence in doing that. So, discussion, anybody um discussion, anybody um discussion, anybody um want to jump in and and give some want to jump in and and give some want to jump in and and give some perspective to this?

perspective to this? perspective to this? >> I I like your comment, Rob, about um >> I I like your comment, Rob, about um >> I I like your comment, Rob, about um the the intelligence. It it is clear the the intelligence. It it is clear the the intelligence. It it is clear that their approach was a holistic that their approach was a holistic that their approach was a holistic top-down top-down top-down a concept. They knew what they had to a concept. They knew what they had to a concept. They knew what they had to accomplish. They knew they needed accomplish. They knew they needed accomplish. They knew they needed subsystems, and they had to figure out subsystems, and they had to figure out subsystems, and they had to figure out how to put each of the things together how to put each of the things together how to put each of the things together independently. So, yeah, clever and independently. So, yeah, clever and independently. So, yeah, clever and everything else. everything else. everything else. Far, far from what life does, Far, far from what life does, Far, far from what life does, but it's pointing very clearly uh in the but it's pointing very clearly uh in the but it's pointing very clearly uh in the direction that real life could not have direction that real life could not have direction that real life could not have ever arisen by itself. ever arisen by itself. ever arisen by itself. >> Yeah, I think it it you know, what these >> Yeah, I think it it you know, what these >> Yeah, I think it it you know, what these things tell us and teach us repeatedly things tell us and teach us repeatedly things tell us and teach us repeatedly is is is the amount of control that you need to the amount of control that you need to the amount of control that you need to bring to the table in order to put bring to the table in order to put bring to the table in order to put something like this together is is something like this together is is something like this together is is profound. Um and you're constantly as profound. Um and you're constantly as profound. Um and you're constantly as Royal's going to dig into, we'll see Royal's going to dig into, we'll see Royal's going to dig into, we'll see lots and lots of examples of this, but lots and lots of examples of this, but lots and lots of examples of this, but you're constantly having to fight uh you're constantly having to fight uh you're constantly having to fight uh yeah, entropy, right? The thing wants to yeah, entropy, right? The thing wants to yeah, entropy, right? The thing wants to fall apart, and you're you're working fall apart, and you're you're working fall apart, and you're you're working hard to uh orchestrate the putting hard to uh orchestrate the putting hard to uh orchestrate the putting together of it. Um I wonder if if the together of it. Um I wonder if if the together of it. Um I wonder if if the mysterious magical spark comment is less mysterious magical spark comment is less mysterious magical spark comment is less about about about how that first life gets made and more how that first life gets made and more how that first life gets made and more about more a statement about you know, about more a statement about you know, about more a statement about you know, the ongoing operation of life, you know, the ongoing operation of life, you know, the ongoing operation of life, you know, being like a small machine, like a being like a small machine, like a being like a small machine, like a material process that doesn't need material process that doesn't need material process that doesn't need constant external intervention, right?

constant external intervention, right? constant external intervention, right? Um which I I would say, yeah, that Um which I I would say, yeah, that Um which I I would say, yeah, that that's fine. Uh, that's fine. Uh, that's fine. Uh, not a problem there. It's just uh, how not a problem there. It's just uh, how not a problem there. It's just uh, how did you get that first ongoing uh, did you get that first ongoing uh, did you get that first ongoing uh, self-driving thing and how do you self-driving thing and how do you self-driving thing and how do you continue to refine it? Those are the continue to refine it? Those are the continue to refine it? Those are the open questions that we're wondering open questions that we're wondering open questions that we're wondering about. about. about. >> So, many of us here have made claims, >> So, many of us here have made claims, >> So, many of us here have made claims, you know, that um, you know, that um, you know, that um, building a cell from chemistry, building building a cell from chemistry, building building a cell from chemistry, building a cell even with the greatest of a cell even with the greatest of a cell even with the greatest of chemists and so forth, chemists and so forth, chemists and so forth, is is so so far away that we and the is is so so far away that we and the is is so so far away that we and the goalposts keep moving further that it's goalposts keep moving further that it's goalposts keep moving further that it's hard to imagine it will ever happen. hard to imagine it will ever happen. hard to imagine it will ever happen. And when this paper came out, there was And when this paper came out, there was And when this paper came out, there was you know, all this media shock and you know, all this media shock and you know, all this media shock and stuff, but we stuff, but we stuff, but we we as a team, I don't think have felt we as a team, I don't think have felt we as a team, I don't think have felt like anything has changed in our like anything has changed in our like anything has changed in our thinking as a result of this. Even more thinking as a result of this. Even more thinking as a result of this. Even more so because of the intelligence they've so because of the intelligence they've so because of the intelligence they've put into this and we see how far they put into this and we see how far they put into this and we see how far they are from actual life. I think it gives are from actual life. I think it gives are from actual life. I think it gives more credibility to our [music] more credibility to our [music] more credibility to our [music] thinking. thinking. thinking. >> Thank you for joining me today. If you >> Thank you for joining me today. If you >> Thank you for joining me today. If you could give us a like, share, or podcast could give us a like, share, or podcast could give us a like, share, or podcast review, we would appreciate [music] it. review, we would appreciate [music] it. review, we would appreciate [music] it. If you have any questions, you could If you have any questions, you could If you have any questions, you could send them to [email protected] send them to [email protected] send them to [email protected] [music] [music] [music] and we'll try to answer some of those and we'll try to answer some of those and we'll try to answer some of those questions in an upcoming video. And if questions in an upcoming video. And if questions in an upcoming video. And if you do not believe in the physical you do not believe in the physical you do not believe in the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ [music] and resurrection of Jesus Christ [music] and resurrection of Jesus Christ [music] and you want to hear about why I believe, you want to hear about why I believe, you want to hear about why I believe, send me an email to [email protected] send me an email to [email protected] send me an email to [email protected] [music] [music] and we'll get together by Zoom and I'll and we'll get together by Zoom and I'll share with [music] you why I embrace the share with [music] you why I embrace the share with [music] you why I embrace the resurrection of Jesus Christ.