From Atheist to Christian: "I didn't want it to be TRUE"

2013 2013 when she first came to me with that that when she first came to me with that that when she first came to me with that that statement that she said, "I feel like statement that she said, "I feel like statement that she said, "I feel like Jesus is calling me back." And Jesus is calling me back." And Jesus is calling me back." And I remember when she took me to the I remember when she took me to the I remember when she took me to the church, one of the things she wanted us church, one of the things she wanted us church, one of the things she wanted us to go to in the church was their to go to in the church was their to go to in the church was their marriage class. marriage class. marriage class. Because this was getting ready for Because this was getting ready for Because this was getting ready for marriage. And I I went to the class and marriage. And I I went to the class and marriage. And I I went to the class and I was like, "Sure, I mean I'll I'll I was like, "Sure, I mean I'll I'll I was like, "Sure, I mean I'll I'll see." And I remember thinking, I was see." And I remember thinking, I was see." And I remember thinking, I was like, "Oh, there's some good principles like, "Oh, there's some good principles like, "Oh, there's some good principles here. Yeah, this kind of this stuff kind here. Yeah, this kind of this stuff kind here. Yeah, this kind of this stuff kind of makes sense." of makes sense." of makes sense." Um Um Um but we we we got married and it it but we we we got married and it it but we we we got married and it it wasn't really until after we were wasn't really until after we were wasn't really until after we were married when my journey officially married when my journey officially married when my journey officially started though because started though because started though because when I was hitting her with the hard when I was hitting her with the hard when I was hitting her with the hard questions that I was hitting every other questions that I was hitting every other questions that I was hitting every other Christian with, Christian with, Christian with, she wasn't backing down. Even though she she wasn't backing down. Even though she she wasn't backing down. Even though she didn't know the answers, she still was didn't know the answers, she still was didn't know the answers, she still was adamant that it was true. And she even adamant that it was true. And she even adamant that it was true. And she even went to the extent of buying me a Bible, went to the extent of buying me a Bible, went to the extent of buying me a Bible, writing my name in it, and giving it to writing my name in it, and giving it to writing my name in it, and giving it to me. And I remember I opened the Bible, I me. And I remember I opened the Bible, I me. And I remember I opened the Bible, I looked through it, I'm like, "Six days looked through it, I'm like, "Six days looked through it, I'm like, "Six days in Genesis, this is nonsense." Closed in Genesis, this is nonsense." Closed in Genesis, this is nonsense." Closed the Bible and pushed it away. the Bible and pushed it away. the Bible and pushed it away. Um but there was one particular moment Um but there was one particular moment Um but there was one particular moment that really piqued my curiosity and got that really piqued my curiosity and got that really piqued my curiosity and got me to take a deeper look at all this me to take a deeper look at all this me to take a deeper look at all this Christian stuff. And it was a YouTube Christian stuff. And it was a YouTube Christian stuff. And it was a YouTube video that popped up on my feed by Hugh video that popped up on my feed by Hugh video that popped up on my feed by Hugh Ross, Ross, Ross, going over his perspective of the going over his perspective of the going over his perspective of the creation days.

creation days. creation days. And that one video And that one video And that one video after I finished it, I said, "You know, after I finished it, I said, "You know, after I finished it, I said, "You know, maybe there is something to this." maybe there is something to this." maybe there is something to this." And so I kind of went and then I started And so I kind of went and then I started And so I kind of went and then I started looking through Genesis again in light looking through Genesis again in light looking through Genesis again in light of what he had had had covered from his of what he had had had covered from his of what he had had had covered from his that uh interpretation or the old earth that uh interpretation or the old earth that uh interpretation or the old earth interpretation of of scripture. interpretation of of scripture. interpretation of of scripture. And it all started to kind of line up And it all started to kind of line up And it all started to kind of line up and I'm like, "Okay, well then now I'm and I'm like, "Okay, well then now I'm and I'm like, "Okay, well then now I'm going to I'm curious." So I kind of went going to I'm curious." So I kind of went going to I'm curious." So I kind of went from a state of like aggressiveness from a state of like aggressiveness from a state of like aggressiveness towards Christianity, I softened up, towards Christianity, I softened up, towards Christianity, I softened up, went to the church with my wife, but went to the church with my wife, but went to the church with my wife, but then I kind of I started to get really then I kind of I started to get really then I kind of I started to get really curious. Okay, let me jump in here. How curious. Okay, let me jump in here. How curious. Okay, let me jump in here. How how old are you when this curious stage how old are you when this curious stage how old are you when this curious stage starts? Um I was starts? Um I was starts? Um I was 26, around 26. 26, around 26. 26, around 26. >> Okay, so about years after saying you're >> Okay, so about years after saying you're >> Okay, so about years after saying you're an atheist, living that out, now your an atheist, living that out, now your an atheist, living that out, now your your attention has been gotten and your attention has been gotten and your attention has been gotten and you're curiously seeking more evidence you're curiously seeking more evidence you're curiously seeking more evidence and you're married at this stage. and you're married at this stage. and you're married at this stage. Exactly. Okay, keep going. Yeah. Okay. Exactly. Okay, keep going. Yeah. Okay. Exactly. Okay, keep going. Yeah. Okay. Um and then once once I really started Um and then once once I really started Um and then once once I really started to become curious, that's when I started to become curious, that's when I started to become curious, that's when I started buying books. Haha, now you're investing buying books. Haha, now you're investing buying books. Haha, now you're investing money, let's go. Right. [laughter] money, let's go. Right. [laughter] money, let's go. Right. [laughter] And keep in mind, prior to this, I had And keep in mind, prior to this, I had And keep in mind, prior to this, I had never finished a book my entire life. I never finished a book my entire life. I never finished a book my entire life. I went through high school. I would watch went through high school. I would watch went through high school. I would watch the the movies of the books that they the the movies of the books that they the the movies of the books that they were reading just to kind of slide by to were reading just to kind of slide by to were reading just to kind of slide by to pass the tests. And I I never I I I just pass the tests. And I I never I I I just pass the tests. And I I never I I I just didn't like to read. I liked film, I didn't like to read. I liked film, I didn't like to read. I liked film, I liked cinema, I liked movies. Yeah.

liked cinema, I liked movies. Yeah. liked cinema, I liked movies. Yeah. >> Um but I >> Um but I >> Um but I I don't even know how many books I went I don't even know how many books I went I don't even know how many books I went through through this period. This was through through this period. This was through through this period. This was about a 3-year in journey about a 3-year in journey about a 3-year in journey from the moment that she said that from the moment that she said that from the moment that she said that statement uh to the moment I gave my statement uh to the moment I gave my statement uh to the moment I gave my life to Christ. And I read uh Timothy life to Christ. And I read uh Timothy life to Christ. And I read uh Timothy Keller's Reasons for God. Yeah. Keller's Reasons for God. Yeah. Keller's Reasons for God. Yeah. >> through Hugh Ross's book Why the >> through Hugh Ross's book Why the >> through Hugh Ross's book Why the Universe Is the Way It Is in a matter of Universe Is the Way It Is in a matter of Universe Is the Way It Is in a matter of days. days. days. Um I went through um you guys's book uh Um I went through um you guys's book uh Um I went through um you guys's book uh The More Than a Carpenter. Great. The More Than a Carpenter. Great. The More Than a Carpenter. Great. >> Um there there were just one after >> Um there there were just one after >> Um there there were just one after another and I was I realized another and I was I realized another and I was I realized that there are a lot of good arguments that there are a lot of good arguments that there are a lot of good arguments out there. Like there's a lot of out there. Like there's a lot of out there. Like there's a lot of evidence that shows that God exists. evidence that shows that God exists. evidence that shows that God exists. And it was at the end of the 3-year And it was at the end of the 3-year And it was at the end of the 3-year journey after I had kind of been looking journey after I had kind of been looking journey after I had kind of been looking into all of this. into all of this. into all of this. Then I I started asking my wife Then I I started asking my wife Then I I started asking my wife questions about angels and demons and questions about angels and demons and questions about angels and demons and stuff in scripture. stuff in scripture. stuff in scripture. And she finally was like, you know, I And she finally was like, you know, I And she finally was like, you know, I don't know. I don't know how to answer don't know. I don't know how to answer don't know. I don't know how to answer the questions you're trying to ask me, the questions you're trying to ask me, the questions you're trying to ask me, but um my mom has a friend in the family but um my mom has a friend in the family but um my mom has a friend in the family that you can go and have a conversation that you can go and have a conversation that you can go and have a conversation with. He's a theologian. I said, "Okay, with. He's a theologian. I said, "Okay, with. He's a theologian. I said, "Okay, great. great. great. So I wrote down five pages full of So I wrote down five pages full of So I wrote down five pages full of questions. I'm just ready to hand to questions. I'm just ready to hand to questions. I'm just ready to hand to this guy.

this guy. this guy. I walked in. Okay, can I I'm so sorry to I walked in. Okay, can I I'm so sorry to I walked in. Okay, can I I'm so sorry to interrupt. I'm really trying So interrupt. I'm really trying So interrupt. I'm really trying So at this stage it sounds like you believe at this stage it sounds like you believe at this stage it sounds like you believe God exists. You're leaning towards the God exists. You're leaning towards the God exists. You're leaning towards the Christian God, but there's theological Christian God, but there's theological Christian God, but there's theological and biblical barriers before you'd make and biblical barriers before you'd make and biblical barriers before you'd make that commitment. Am I understanding that commitment. Am I understanding that commitment. Am I understanding where you're at? You're exactly right. where you're at? You're exactly right. where you're at? You're exactly right. Okay, keep going. Okay, keep going. Okay, keep going. >> I and I had looked through other >> I and I had looked through other >> I and I had looked through other religions and belief systems at this religions and belief systems at this religions and belief systems at this point, too. It was a lot of of digging point, too. It was a lot of of digging point, too. It was a lot of of digging in during that 3 years. in during that 3 years. in during that 3 years. Um but once I walk in the door to talk Um but once I walk in the door to talk Um but once I walk in the door to talk with this theologian, with this theologian, with this theologian, I remember I just went down the list and I remember I just went down the list and I remember I just went down the list and I was asking him a question and a I was asking him a question and a I was asking him a question and a question. I remember specifically question. I remember specifically question. I remember specifically every question, he went to the every question, he went to the every question, he went to the scriptures and he was answering it using scriptures and he was answering it using scriptures and he was answering it using the scriptures. the scriptures. the scriptures. >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> And at the end of the conversation, I >> And at the end of the conversation, I >> And at the end of the conversation, I went through the last question went through the last question went through the last question and he looked up at me and he said, "So, and he looked up at me and he said, "So, and he looked up at me and he said, "So, do you believe it?" do you believe it?" do you believe it?" Wow. Wow. Wow. >> to myself, "Well, >> to myself, "Well, >> to myself, "Well, I don't have any more objections at this I don't have any more objections at this I don't have any more objections at this point." point." point." >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> And I said, "Yeah, I I think so." >> And I said, "Yeah, I I think so." >> And I said, "Yeah, I I think so." But it didn't really sink in at that But it didn't really sink in at that But it didn't really sink in at that moment. It was actually the drive home, moment. It was actually the drive home, moment. It was actually the drive home, on the way home, on the way home, on the way home, is when I really thought to myself, "I is when I really thought to myself, "I is when I really thought to myself, "I actually think that this is true. So, actually think that this is true. So, actually think that this is true. So, why why don't I just why why don't I just why why don't I just believe it?"

believe it?" believe it?" And that's when I realized it wasn't the And that's when I realized it wasn't the And that's when I realized it wasn't the evidence that was holding me back. It evidence that was holding me back. It evidence that was holding me back. It was the fact that I didn't want it to be was the fact that I didn't want it to be was the fact that I didn't want it to be true. true. true. Ooh. And when I realized that, I thought Ooh. And when I realized that, I thought Ooh. And when I realized that, I thought to myself, "Well, that's not a good to myself, "Well, that's not a good to myself, "Well, that's not a good reason." reason." reason." And so, I said, "All right, Jesus, And so, I said, "All right, Jesus, And so, I said, "All right, Jesus, what's next?" And that was me giving my what's next?" And that was me giving my what's next?" And that was me giving my life to to Christ. And life to to Christ. And life to to Christ. And I don't normally talk about this part of I don't normally talk about this part of I don't normally talk about this part of it because this is the experiential part it because this is the experiential part it because this is the experiential part and I tend to lean more towards the and I tend to lean more towards the and I tend to lean more towards the evidential base for for evidential base for for evidential base for for belief. However, I did have an belief. However, I did have an belief. However, I did have an experience in that moment as well. It experience in that moment as well. It experience in that moment as well. It was almost like was almost like was almost like I had a a fog over my mind my entire I had a a fog over my mind my entire I had a a fog over my mind my entire life life life and it was like the fog finally left and and it was like the fog finally left and and it was like the fog finally left and I could finally see reality for the way I could finally see reality for the way I could finally see reality for the way that it actually is. Mhm. Which is that it actually is. Mhm. Which is that it actually is. Mhm. Which is ironic because as an atheist, I always ironic because as an atheist, I always ironic because as an atheist, I always looked at Christians as being looked at Christians as being looked at Christians as being narrow-minded. Mhm. But I realized in narrow-minded. Mhm. But I realized in narrow-minded. Mhm. But I realized in that moment I was being narrow-minded as that moment I was being narrow-minded as that moment I was being narrow-minded as as an atheist. as an atheist. as an atheist. And I went from a state of believing And I went from a state of believing And I went from a state of believing that it's true to knowing that it's that it's true to knowing that it's that it's true to knowing that it's true.

true. true. Wow. Wow. Wow. What an amazing testimony. And I will we What an amazing testimony. And I will we What an amazing testimony. And I will we will show much more there, but I think will show much more there, but I think will show much more there, but I think it goes back to C.S. Lewis' famous quote it goes back to C.S. Lewis' famous quote it goes back to C.S. Lewis' famous quote where he says, you know, if I if we find where he says, you know, if I if we find where he says, you know, if I if we find ourselves with a desire that not this ourselves with a desire that not this ourselves with a desire that not this world can satisfy, the only possible world can satisfy, the only possible world can satisfy, the only possible explanation is that we were made for explanation is that we were made for explanation is that we were made for another world. And I think that hunger another world. And I think that hunger another world. And I think that hunger and that longing and that longing and that longing Christianity does clinch it. Christianity does clinch it. Christianity does clinch it. I I I I find whenever I look at any worldview, I find whenever I look at any worldview, I find whenever I look at any worldview, whenever I look into anything, the the whenever I look into anything, the the whenever I look into anything, the the thing I always go back to and the thing thing I always go back to and the thing thing I always go back to and the thing that that that ever quenches that hunger in my heart is ever quenches that hunger in my heart is ever quenches that hunger in my heart is Christianity. Christianity. Christianity. Now, you could say, well, that's a Now, you could say, well, that's a Now, you could say, well, that's a reason it's probably not true then reason it's probably not true then reason it's probably not true then because you want it to be true and it's because you want it to be true and it's because you want it to be true and it's something that has a satisfying something that has a satisfying something that has a satisfying explanation. And the truth is of the explanation. And the truth is of the explanation. And the truth is of the world and the universe it's not it's not world and the universe it's not it's not world and the universe it's not it's not um um um you know, satisfying. It's not something you know, satisfying. It's not something you know, satisfying. It's not something that kind of tickles your satisfaction that kind of tickles your satisfaction that kind of tickles your satisfaction of intellect. It's something that it's of intellect. It's something that it's of intellect. It's something that it's so complex, it's so massive that we so complex, it's so massive that we so complex, it's so massive that we don't know. And you know, when you do don't know. And you know, when you do don't know. And you know, when you do look at certain animals and the cruelty look at certain animals and the cruelty look at certain animals and the cruelty in the natural order of things within in the natural order of things within in the natural order of things within you know, naturalism or whatever you you know, naturalism or whatever you you know, naturalism or whatever you want to call it, it does make you wonder want to call it, it does make you wonder want to call it, it does make you wonder like, oh my goodness, you know, did a like, oh my goodness, you know, did a like, oh my goodness, you know, did a good creator exist? But then you also good creator exist? But then you also good creator exist? But then you also see absolute beauty. You see mountains, see absolute beauty. You see mountains, see absolute beauty. You see mountains, you see skies, you see rivers, you see you see skies, you see rivers, you see you see skies, you see rivers, you see the most radical acts of kindness as, the most radical acts of kindness as, the most radical acts of kindness as, you know, Francis Collins speaks about.

you know, Francis Collins speaks about. you know, Francis Collins speaks about. One of the biggest reasons he converted One of the biggest reasons he converted One of the biggest reasons he converted from atheism from atheism from atheism to Christianity. And he was, you know, to Christianity. And he was, you know, to Christianity. And he was, you know, one of the top scientists of our day and one of the top scientists of our day and one of the top scientists of our day and ex-director of the National Institute of ex-director of the National Institute of ex-director of the National Institute of Health in America. It was, he said, he Health in America. It was, he said, he Health in America. It was, he said, he cannot explain a biological reason why cannot explain a biological reason why cannot explain a biological reason why someone would jump out in front of a someone would jump out in front of a someone would jump out in front of a train to save someone. Why someone would train to save someone. Why someone would train to save someone. Why someone would do the most radical acts of kindness do the most radical acts of kindness do the most radical acts of kindness humanly possible that make no biological humanly possible that make no biological humanly possible that make no biological sense. sense. sense. And there is a magic, there is a And there is a magic, there is a And there is a magic, there is a mysticism to Christianity. You know, we mysticism to Christianity. You know, we mysticism to Christianity. You know, we don't know all the answers. There's don't know all the answers. There's don't know all the answers. There's reasons why people like Sam Harris, the reasons why people like Sam Harris, the reasons why people like Sam Harris, the new atheist movement, do have certain new atheist movement, do have certain new atheist movement, do have certain weight when it comes to suffering. You weight when it comes to suffering. You weight when it comes to suffering. You know, how could God let this happen? But know, how could God let this happen? But know, how could God let this happen? But there's also so many answers they can't there's also so many answers they can't there's also so many answers they can't answer. And I think as Christians, we answer. And I think as Christians, we answer. And I think as Christians, we need to really, you know, be honest. need to really, you know, be honest. need to really, you know, be honest. That's what I always talk about on this That's what I always talk about on this That's what I always talk about on this channel, just honest. Honesty. Like, if channel, just honest. Honesty. Like, if channel, just honest. Honesty. Like, if there's a good argument against there's a good argument against there's a good argument against Christianity, if there's things about Christianity, if there's things about Christianity, if there's things about suffering that we can't answer, we say suffering that we can't answer, we say suffering that we can't answer, we say we don't know. we don't know. we don't know. You know, when we act like we know the You know, when we act like we know the You know, when we act like we know the answers to the universe, we know the answers to the universe, we know the answers to the universe, we know the answers to suffering, that's where we answers to suffering, that's where we answers to suffering, that's where we lose people. When we're not coming from lose people. When we're not coming from lose people. When we're not coming from that honest heart, you know? It's like that honest heart, you know? It's like that honest heart, you know? It's like Mormonism. I've done some videos on Mormonism. I've done some videos on Mormonism. I've done some videos on Mormonism with their Mormonism with their Mormonism with their you know, eight eyewitness testimonies you know, eight eyewitness testimonies you know, eight eyewitness testimonies and, you know, obviously closer evidence and, you know, obviously closer evidence and, you know, obviously closer evidence than 2,000 years ago with with the than 2,000 years ago with with the than 2,000 years ago with with the gospels and Jesus and um you know, gospels and Jesus and um you know, gospels and Jesus and um you know, manuscripts of manuscripts and manuscripts of manuscripts and manuscripts of manuscripts and eyewitnesses of eyewitnesses and eyewitnesses of eyewitnesses and eyewitnesses of eyewitnesses and um um um you know, you look at that and you could you know, you look at that and you could you know, you look at that and you could say, "Well, you know, Mormonism blah say, "Well, you know, Mormonism blah say, "Well, you know, Mormonism blah blah blah."

blah blah." blah blah." It's not um It's not um It's not um it's not true because of this, who it's not true because of this, who it's not true because of this, who Joseph Smith was, or that maybe there's Joseph Smith was, or that maybe there's Joseph Smith was, or that maybe there's an inherency with with the, you know, an inherency with with the, you know, an inherency with with the, you know, appearances of the plates and stuff. But appearances of the plates and stuff. But appearances of the plates and stuff. But if we're going to use the argument of if we're going to use the argument of if we're going to use the argument of eyewitnesses, we've got to be honest. eyewitnesses, we've got to be honest. eyewitnesses, we've got to be honest. And I always I know I'm kind of going in And I always I know I'm kind of going in And I always I know I'm kind of going in circles here with what I'm saying, but I circles here with what I'm saying, but I circles here with what I'm saying, but I just think honesty is the most important just think honesty is the most important just think honesty is the most important thing. And if one thing brings people thing. And if one thing brings people thing. And if one thing brings people away from being Christians, it is people away from being Christians, it is people away from being Christians, it is people who aren't honest. And that does not who aren't honest. And that does not who aren't honest. And that does not mean you are going against God. You mean you are going against God. You mean you are going against God. You really think God, who made the universe, really think God, who made the universe, really think God, who made the universe, who who knows our hearts, who knows our who who knows our hearts, who knows our who who knows our hearts, who knows our minds, who made every, you know, formed minds, who made every, you know, formed minds, who made every, you know, formed us in the womb, us in the womb, us in the womb, you know, you think he really cares if you know, you think he really cares if you know, you think he really cares if we we you know, he wants us to live in we we you know, he wants us to live in we we you know, he wants us to live in blissful ignorance and to ignore blissful ignorance and to ignore blissful ignorance and to ignore arguments or arguments or arguments or bits of knowledge we don't like or don't bits of knowledge we don't like or don't bits of knowledge we don't like or don't fit with our worldview. I I don't think fit with our worldview. I I don't think fit with our worldview. I I don't think that's the case with Mormonism. And I that's the case with Mormonism. And I that's the case with Mormonism. And I get a lot of get a lot of get a lot of negative comments, people saying, negative comments, people saying, negative comments, people saying, "You're lost in your Christianity. "You're lost in your Christianity. "You're lost in your Christianity. You're lost in your faith. You need to You're lost in your faith. You need to You're lost in your faith. You need to have more trust in the Bible." But I'm have more trust in the Bible." But I'm have more trust in the Bible." But I'm doing this because I'm I'm just being doing this because I'm I'm just being doing this because I'm I'm just being honest. You know, if I don't know honest. You know, if I don't know honest. You know, if I don't know something, I'll say I don't know it. And something, I'll say I don't know it. And something, I'll say I don't know it. And and I I that's so important that all of and I I that's so important that all of and I I that's so important that all of us Christians need to do and it brings us Christians need to do and it brings us Christians need to do and it brings people to the faith cuz the truth will people to the faith cuz the truth will people to the faith cuz the truth will set you free. I do believe if you look set you free. I do believe if you look set you free. I do believe if you look for the truth hard enough and long for the truth hard enough and long for the truth hard enough and long enough, you do stumble upon Jesus with a enough, you do stumble upon Jesus with a enough, you do stumble upon Jesus with a pure and genuine heart, you know, not a pure and genuine heart, you know, not a pure and genuine heart, you know, not a biased heart, not a prideful heart, a biased heart, not a prideful heart, a biased heart, not a prideful heart, a honest heart because nobody owns the honest heart because nobody owns the honest heart because nobody owns the truth. That is the beauty of the truth.

truth. That is the beauty of the truth. truth. That is the beauty of the truth. It is It's the unraveling of the It is It's the unraveling of the It is It's the unraveling of the universe. That's why I find like the, universe. That's why I find like the, universe. That's why I find like the, you know, you know, you know, the fine-tuning argument so fascinating the fine-tuning argument so fascinating the fine-tuning argument so fascinating cuz we cuz we cuz we like within the universe, we are we're like within the universe, we are we're like within the universe, we are we're finding out an order of things finding out an order of things finding out an order of things about the universe. And we're, you know, about the universe. And we're, you know, about the universe. And we're, you know, the fact that there is some any order to the fact that there is some any order to the fact that there is some any order to universe is incredible. And, you know, universe is incredible. And, you know, universe is incredible. And, you know, John Lennox speaks about that with maths John Lennox speaks about that with maths John Lennox speaks about that with maths and the, you know, unprob- the and the, you know, unprob- the and the, you know, unprob- the improbability of the universe come from improbability of the universe come from improbability of the universe come from nothing telling. But anyway, I'm going nothing telling. But anyway, I'm going nothing telling. But anyway, I'm going to completely ramble. Yeah, we'll hear to completely ramble. Yeah, we'll hear to completely ramble. Yeah, we'll hear more from more from more from from us. from us. from us. And from then on, then my journey went And from then on, then my journey went And from then on, then my journey went to try and do help others see the to try and do help others see the to try and do help others see the evidence that that convinced me that it evidence that that convinced me that it evidence that that convinced me that it was true. was true. was true. You know, if Christianity is true, then You know, if Christianity is true, then You know, if Christianity is true, then atheists are narrow-minded because they atheists are narrow-minded because they atheists are narrow-minded because they only believe in material things or only believe in material things or only believe in material things or things that spawn out of or depend upon things that spawn out of or depend upon things that spawn out of or depend upon material things. material things. material things. So, it seemed to me a Christian wouldn't So, it seemed to me a Christian wouldn't So, it seemed to me a Christian wouldn't be narrow-minded. A Christian would be be narrow-minded. A Christian would be be narrow-minded. A Christian would be gullible and just believe in things that gullible and just believe in things that gullible and just believe in things that aren't evidenced. So, you can make a aren't evidenced. So, you can make a aren't evidenced. So, you can make a critique on either side, but you're critique on either side, but you're critique on either side, but you're right, the question is what is reality right, the question is what is reality right, the question is what is reality and where does the evidence point? Now, and where does the evidence point? Now, and where does the evidence point? Now, I got to lean into a couple of things I got to lean into a couple of things I got to lean into a couple of things you said. You said I didn't you said. You said I didn't you said. You said I didn't want it to be true.

want it to be true. want it to be true. Tell me about that. Tell me about that. Tell me about that. So, one of the biggest objections that I So, one of the biggest objections that I So, one of the biggest objections that I had um and I even expressed this to my had um and I even expressed this to my had um and I even expressed this to my wife. wife. wife. I said, "I can't believe in a God I said, "I can't believe in a God I said, "I can't believe in a God who could send me to an eternal who could send me to an eternal who could send me to an eternal punishment punishment punishment just because I have a little bit of just because I have a little bit of just because I have a little bit of trouble believing in him." trouble believing in him." trouble believing in him." So, that was one of my main objections, So, that was one of my main objections, So, that was one of my main objections, but my my other reason for not wanting but my my other reason for not wanting but my my other reason for not wanting it to be true is because I didn't want it to be true is because I didn't want it to be true is because I didn't want to be held accountable to anybody. to be held accountable to anybody. to be held accountable to anybody. I want to be in control of my own life. I want to be in control of my own life. I want to be in control of my own life. I want to do what I want to do. And I want to do what I want to do. And I want to do what I want to do. And there's a lot of um rules and things in there's a lot of um rules and things in there's a lot of um rules and things in my mind that you had to to to to to my mind that you had to to to to to my mind that you had to to to to to adopt when giving your life or becoming adopt when giving your life or becoming adopt when giving your life or becoming a Christian. a Christian. a Christian. And then even the title itself like And then even the title itself like And then even the title itself like revolts me. I didn't like the title revolts me. I didn't like the title revolts me. I didn't like the title Christian. Christian. Christian. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Just because I knew what kind of baggage >> Just because I knew what kind of baggage >> Just because I knew what kind of baggage came with that. came with that. came with that. >> Yeah. [snorts] >> Yeah. [snorts] >> Yeah. [snorts] Um but I but ultimately I think looking Um but I but ultimately I think looking Um but I but ultimately I think looking back at it it it came down to the fact back at it it it came down to the fact back at it it it came down to the fact that I just I wanted to be in control. that I just I wanted to be in control. that I just I wanted to be in control. And if it's actually true then I'm not And if it's actually true then I'm not And if it's actually true then I'm not in control of anything.

in control of anything. in control of anything. >> Mhm. Uh that is such a honest answer, >> Mhm. Uh that is such a honest answer, >> Mhm. Uh that is such a honest answer, you know. I think that's why the start you know. I think that's why the start you know. I think that's why the start of Proverbs it speaks about, you know, of Proverbs it speaks about, you know, of Proverbs it speaks about, you know, "Fear the Lord is the beginning of all "Fear the Lord is the beginning of all "Fear the Lord is the beginning of all wisdom." And there's so much truth in wisdom." And there's so much truth in wisdom." And there's so much truth in that. In the sense that you know, when that. In the sense that you know, when that. In the sense that you know, when you come with that childlike heart as you come with that childlike heart as you come with that childlike heart as Jesus speaks about in the Gospels, you Jesus speaks about in the Gospels, you Jesus speaks about in the Gospels, you know, "Come to me as a child." You know, know, "Come to me as a child." You know, know, "Come to me as a child." You know, that that that purity, that wonder. You that that that purity, that wonder. You that that that purity, that wonder. You know, the the more we live life, the know, the the more we live life, the know, the the more we live life, the more that gets battered out of us. It's more that gets battered out of us. It's more that gets battered out of us. It's like I love I I swear my life was but like I love I I swear my life was but like I love I I swear my life was but Lucy and Narnia it goes back to the Lucy and Narnia it goes back to the Lucy and Narnia it goes back to the Great Divorce with as I always bang on Great Divorce with as I always bang on Great Divorce with as I always bang on about C.S. Lewis, you know, when he about C.S. Lewis, you know, when he about C.S. Lewis, you know, when he speaks about most people would prefer to speaks about most people would prefer to speaks about most people would prefer to you know, live in misery that they you know, live in misery that they you know, live in misery that they control than to live in joy that they control than to live in joy that they control than to live in joy that they don't control. I think there's so much don't control. I think there's so much don't control. I think there's so much truth in that. People would prefer to truth in that. People would prefer to truth in that. People would prefer to live in a place It's like love, you live in a place It's like love, you live in a place It's like love, you know, that vulnerability, that giving know, that vulnerability, that giving know, that vulnerability, that giving yourself to someone. You know, the fruit yourself to someone. You know, the fruit yourself to someone. You know, the fruit and the blossoming of love and joy and and the blossoming of love and joy and and the blossoming of love and joy and risk and risk and risk and proper proper proper community and oneness, you know, it can community and oneness, you know, it can community and oneness, you know, it can only be possible with the risk. The risk only be possible with the risk. The risk only be possible with the risk. The risk that they're going to reject you, the that they're going to reject you, the that they're going to reject you, the risk that they're going to turn their risk that they're going to turn their risk that they're going to turn their back on you, the risk that maybe they'll back on you, the risk that maybe they'll back on you, the risk that maybe they'll go, "Actually, I don't like who you go, "Actually, I don't like who you go, "Actually, I don't like who you are." You know, that risk showing the are." You know, that risk showing the are." You know, that risk showing the worst parts parts of yourself to your worst parts parts of yourself to your worst parts parts of yourself to your fellow loved one.

fellow loved one. fellow loved one. You know, you you can decide not to do You know, you you can decide not to do You know, you you can decide not to do that, but you're not going to you're not that, but you're not going to you're not that, but you're not going to you're not going to then enjoy the fruits of what going to then enjoy the fruits of what going to then enjoy the fruits of what love is. And how often do we reject love is. And how often do we reject love is. And how often do we reject reject things in life? I I know I reject things in life? I I know I reject things in life? I I know I certainly do. They're good for us. certainly do. They're good for us. certainly do. They're good for us. They're really will make our lives They're really will make our lives They're really will make our lives better. We reject it because of control, better. We reject it because of control, better. We reject it because of control, because of ego, because oh no, we we because of ego, because oh no, we we because of ego, because oh no, we we want to do it. We want to be in control. want to do it. We want to be in control. want to do it. We want to be in control. We we know what's best, you know. I give We we know what's best, you know. I give We we know what's best, you know. I give the example of um the example of um the example of um even fighting a bit. Like if you look at even fighting a bit. Like if you look at even fighting a bit. Like if you look at um um um you know, martial arts and stuff. And you know, martial arts and stuff. And you know, martial arts and stuff. And I've I've started doing a bit of jujitsu I've I've started doing a bit of jujitsu I've I've started doing a bit of jujitsu and stuff like a lot of people and stuff like a lot of people and stuff like a lot of people don't like that because that they don't don't like that because that they don't don't like that because that they don't like the ego of being beaten. You know, like the ego of being beaten. You know, like the ego of being beaten. You know, when you go into a jujitsu gym and when you go into a jujitsu gym and when you go into a jujitsu gym and there's a black belt there or there's there's a black belt there or there's there's a black belt there or there's somebody who's a purple belt or even a somebody who's a purple belt or even a somebody who's a purple belt or even a white belt, right? Who you're facing and white belt, right? Who you're facing and white belt, right? Who you're facing and you're new, they're probably going to you're new, they're probably going to you're new, they're probably going to choke you out and they're probably going choke you out and they're probably going choke you out and they're probably going to beat you. And you have to accept that to beat you. And you have to accept that to beat you. And you have to accept that they are better than you at that. And they are better than you at that. And they are better than you at that. And they can completely destroy you. You're they can completely destroy you. You're they can completely destroy you. You're a you're a little toy to them, right? Um a you're a little toy to them, right? Um a you're a little toy to them, right? Um and and and I think a lot of people don't like that.

I think a lot of people don't like that. I think a lot of people don't like that. They don't like the drowning of an ego They don't like the drowning of an ego They don't like the drowning of an ego like that. But the the way you get to like that. But the the way you get to like that. But the the way you get to the place where you're good is from the place where you're good is from the place where you're good is from going through that, going through that, going through that, being lost, not knowing. being lost, not knowing. being lost, not knowing. Um and it keeps you in check. And I Um and it keeps you in check. And I Um and it keeps you in check. And I think there's so much honesty in what think there's so much honesty in what think there's so much honesty in what he's saying here. Just, you know, he's saying here. Just, you know, he's saying here. Just, you know, how much is someone's lack of belief how much is someone's lack of belief how much is someone's lack of belief that they don't want it to be true? that they don't want it to be true? that they don't want it to be true? Because if it's not true, then not Because if it's not true, then not Because if it's not true, then not everything is, everything is, everything is, you know, you know, you know, my truth. There are things that are my truth. There are things that are my truth. There are things that are actually true. There are things that actually true. There are things that actually true. There are things that aren't true. There are things that are aren't true. There are things that are aren't true. There are things that are actually good or not good. You know, actually good or not good. You know, actually good or not good. You know, people don't want that. People do not people don't want that. People do not people don't want that. People do not want that. And one of one of the one of want that. And one of one of the one of want that. And one of one of the one of the things I struggle with most about the things I struggle with most about the things I struggle with most about Christianity is I do want it to be true Christianity is I do want it to be true Christianity is I do want it to be true because the level of suffering, the because the level of suffering, the because the level of suffering, the level of agony on the world I find so level of agony on the world I find so level of agony on the world I find so unbearable that if this bloke called unbearable that if this bloke called unbearable that if this bloke called Jesus from Nazareth is not God, is not Jesus from Nazareth is not God, is not Jesus from Nazareth is not God, is not Lord, is not Messiah, then Lord, is not Messiah, then Lord, is not Messiah, then what happens to all these people who what happens to all these people who what happens to all these people who have suffered years and years, who lived have suffered years and years, who lived have suffered years and years, who lived their lives in misery? Where is the their lives in misery? Where is the their lives in misery? Where is the redemption? Where is the solace for redemption? Where is the solace for redemption? Where is the solace for these people?

these people? these people? It's nowhere to be found. And the the It's nowhere to be found. And the the It's nowhere to be found. And the the notion that this is it for those people, notion that this is it for those people, notion that this is it for those people, I find I find I find so [snorts] my heart bleeds for them. So so [snorts] my heart bleeds for them. So so [snorts] my heart bleeds for them. So I want it to be true cuz I want that I want it to be true cuz I want that I want it to be true cuz I want that redemption. I want that justice. I want redemption. I want that justice. I want redemption. I want that justice. I want that um the unfairness of life to one that um the unfairness of life to one that um the unfairness of life to one day it be fair, the downtrodden, the day it be fair, the downtrodden, the day it be fair, the downtrodden, the hurting hurting hurting are lifted up. You know, I I want that are lifted up. You know, I I want that are lifted up. You know, I I want that to be true and part of me goes to be true and part of me goes to be true and part of me goes I have such bias in saying it's true I have such bias in saying it's true I have such bias in saying it's true because I want that to be true and I'll because I want that to be true and I'll because I want that to be true and I'll be honest, you know. Um but be honest, you know. Um but be honest, you know. Um but it's what I've stumbled across and it's it's what I've stumbled across and it's it's what I've stumbled across and it's what I believe to be true, so. what I believe to be true, so. what I believe to be true, so. Um and I think in my mind I just I Um and I think in my mind I just I Um and I think in my mind I just I wanted to keep that control over my wanted to keep that control over my wanted to keep that control over my life. life. life. And so this isn't you just looking back And so this isn't you just looking back And so this isn't you just looking back at that moment you really realized, "Oh, at that moment you really realized, "Oh, at that moment you really realized, "Oh, I'm giving up control." Like that was I'm giving up control." Like that was I'm giving up control." Like that was you had full awareness of that in the you had full awareness of that in the you had full awareness of that in the moment. moment. moment. >> Oh, yeah. Because I I realized like like >> Oh, yeah. Because I I realized like like >> Oh, yeah. Because I I realized like like this is actually true, this is actually true, this is actually true, that means I need to give my life to that means I need to give my life to that means I need to give my life to Christ. Christ. Christ. And And And everything he claimed about himself is everything he claimed about himself is everything he claimed about himself is true. true. true. Everything he says about reality is Everything he says about reality is Everything he says about reality is true.

true. true. And And And this whole time I was I was scared to to this whole time I was I was scared to to this whole time I was I was scared to to relinquish that control. And I think relinquish that control. And I think relinquish that control. And I think afterwards though, when I did give my afterwards though, when I did give my afterwards though, when I did give my life to Christ, it was like this the life to Christ, it was like this the life to Christ, it was like this the freest feeling ever. It it was It was freest feeling ever. It it was It was freest feeling ever. It it was It was not as though like releasing that not as though like releasing that not as though like releasing that control of my life was it was a freeing control of my life was it was a freeing control of my life was it was a freeing feeling. feeling. feeling. And then I just became And then I just became And then I just became extremely excited, extremely curious extremely excited, extremely curious extremely excited, extremely curious because now that I know all of this is because now that I know all of this is because now that I know all of this is true, I want to know more about it. I true, I want to know more about it. I true, I want to know more about it. I want to know more about him. And that's want to know more about him. And that's want to know more about him. And that's when I really started to just dive into when I really started to just dive into when I really started to just dive into the scriptures and and and read and the scriptures and and and read and the scriptures and and and read and study and become more involved with the study and become more involved with the study and become more involved with the church and learn as much as I can and church and learn as much as I can and church and learn as much as I can and study apologetics and try to be able to study apologetics and try to be able to study apologetics and try to be able to defend my faith and have a conversations defend my faith and have a conversations defend my faith and have a conversations with people. with people. with people. And it was actually funny because And it was actually funny because And it was actually funny because when I gave my life to Christ, when I gave my life to Christ, when I gave my life to Christ, even though I had those conversations even though I had those conversations even though I had those conversations with Christians that couldn't give me with Christians that couldn't give me with Christians that couldn't give me good responses. Yeah. In in my mind, good responses. Yeah. In in my mind, good responses. Yeah. In in my mind, this was just kind of the process this was just kind of the process this was just kind of the process everybody took. People followed the everybody took. People followed the everybody took. People followed the evidence, they gave their life to Jesus, evidence, they gave their life to Jesus, evidence, they gave their life to Jesus, and then they started their journey.

and then they started their journey. and then they started their journey. But it after giving my life to Christ But it after giving my life to Christ But it after giving my life to Christ and going to the church, I realized that and going to the church, I realized that and going to the church, I realized that 90% of believers, 90% of believers, 90% of believers, they were they that wasn't the case. they were they that wasn't the case. they were they that wasn't the case. They had grown up in the church. This is They had grown up in the church. This is They had grown up in the church. This is just kind of what they believed their just kind of what they believed their just kind of what they believed their entire life. They never seemed to really entire life. They never seemed to really entire life. They never seemed to really question it. I'm sure they had question it. I'm sure they had question it. I'm sure they had objections, but they never had the the objections, but they never had the the objections, but they never had the the kind of kind of kind of um um um doubts that I had. And so, because of doubts that I had. And so, because of doubts that I had. And so, because of that, they had no idea what apologetics that, they had no idea what apologetics that, they had no idea what apologetics even was. They had no idea there was an even was. They had no idea there was an even was. They had no idea there was an entire um ministry of defending the entire um ministry of defending the entire um ministry of defending the faith. faith. faith. And so, I went to the pastor and I said, And so, I went to the pastor and I said, And so, I went to the pastor and I said, "What like, what can we do to kind of "What like, what can we do to kind of "What like, what can we do to kind of help this?" And he said, "Why don't you help this?" And he said, "Why don't you help this?" And he said, "Why don't you start up an apologetic study?" And And start up an apologetic study?" And And start up an apologetic study?" And And so, then I started equipping people in so, then I started equipping people in so, then I started equipping people in the church and helping them to defend the church and helping them to defend the church and helping them to defend their faith. So, there's such wisdom I their faith. So, there's such wisdom I their faith. So, there's such wisdom I think in what this guy says, and he think in what this guy says, and he think in what this guy says, and he clearly doesn't have a massive ego. He's clearly doesn't have a massive ego. He's clearly doesn't have a massive ego. He's going here from a genuine place. And I going here from a genuine place. And I going here from a genuine place. And I think one thing I hold on to is that think one thing I hold on to is that think one thing I hold on to is that there are people, there are people, there are people, you know, Thomas Aquinas or like you know, Thomas Aquinas or like you know, Thomas Aquinas or like the likes of the apostles. Like, there's the likes of the apostles. Like, there's the likes of the apostles. Like, there's people so much smarter than us, of so so people so much smarter than us, of so so people so much smarter than us, of so so much more intellect, who are on a much more intellect, who are on a much more intellect, who are on a different level, different level, different level, who really do believe that Jesus was who really do believe that Jesus was who really do believe that Jesus was Lord. Dietrich Bonhoeffer, you know, the Lord. Dietrich Bonhoeffer, you know, the Lord. Dietrich Bonhoeffer, you know, the the the people throughout history who the the people throughout history who the the people throughout history who are so incredible and so in tune with are so incredible and so in tune with are so incredible and so in tune with science and the world and philosophy.

science and the world and philosophy. science and the world and philosophy. You know, often we don't know, but there You know, often we don't know, but there You know, often we don't know, but there are so many people who do know so much are so many people who do know so much are so many people who do know so much about this. And I think that's one thing about this. And I think that's one thing about this. And I think that's one thing to hold on to when you're, you know, to hold on to when you're, you know, to hold on to when you're, you know, bewildered by information is that there bewildered by information is that there bewildered by information is that there are people far far smarter than you who are people far far smarter than you who are people far far smarter than you who really devoted their lives to finding really devoted their lives to finding really devoted their lives to finding out what was true, what wasn't true, and out what was true, what wasn't true, and out what was true, what wasn't true, and they came to the conclusion that the they came to the conclusion that the they came to the conclusion that the Nazarene 2,000 years ago Nazarene 2,000 years ago Nazarene 2,000 years ago really was divine and is still moving really was divine and is still moving really was divine and is still moving today. And I think that's something today. And I think that's something today. And I think that's something incredible. If you look at Nobel Prize incredible. If you look at Nobel Prize incredible. If you look at Nobel Prize winners, how many of them are winners, how many of them are winners, how many of them are Christians? And I mean, you could say, Christians? And I mean, you could say, Christians? And I mean, you could say, "Well, there's a bias in the West. What "Well, there's a bias in the West. What "Well, there's a bias in the West. What percentage of people are Christians percentage of people are Christians percentage of people are Christians proportionally is that?" You can make proportionally is that?" You can make proportionally is that?" You can make that argument, but I do think it's that argument, but I do think it's that argument, but I do think it's incredible how many Nobel Prize winners incredible how many Nobel Prize winners incredible how many Nobel Prize winners have been Christian. It's bonkers. But have been Christian. It's bonkers. But have been Christian. It's bonkers. But yeah, I love you all um and I hope you yeah, I love you all um and I hope you yeah, I love you all um and I hope you do enjoy this video. And also, you'll do enjoy this video. And also, you'll do enjoy this video. And also, you'll probably be interested in these two probably be interested in these two probably be interested in these two videos just here, so give them a watch. videos just here, so give them a watch. videos just here, so give them a watch. But yeah, I love you all. Take it easy. But yeah, I love you all. Take it easy. But yeah, I love you all. Take it easy. I hope you got a bit of I hope you got a bit of I hope you got a bit of impact from this like it did for me. Um impact from this like it did for me. Um impact from this like it did for me. Um but yeah, love you all. I'll see you on but yeah, love you all. I'll see you on but yeah, love you all. I'll see you on the next one very soon. Peace.