Why is this Dividing the Church? (HOMOSEXUALITY)

So, an issue that has been divided in So, an issue that has been divided in the Church of England and Christians the Church of England and Christians the Church of England and Christians around the world is the issue of around the world is the issue of around the world is the issue of homosexuality. Is being gay a sin? Is homosexuality. Is being gay a sin? Is homosexuality. Is being gay a sin? Is indulging in homosexuality a sin and indulging in homosexuality a sin and indulging in homosexuality a sin and everything in between? And ladies and everything in between? And ladies and everything in between? And ladies and gentlemen, we're going to be watching a gentlemen, we're going to be watching a gentlemen, we're going to be watching a really good debate. I think a good back really good debate. I think a good back really good debate. I think a good back and forth. and forth. and forth. >> Can you please define damage and >> Can you please define damage and >> Can you please define damage and suffering for me in this context? suffering for me in this context? suffering for me in this context? >> So, gay kids are 8 to 12 times more >> So, gay kids are 8 to 12 times more >> So, gay kids are 8 to 12 times more likely to commit suicide, especially if likely to commit suicide, especially if likely to commit suicide, especially if they come from religious homes. And it's they come from religious homes. And it's they come from religious homes. And it's because they have no way to express. And because they have no way to express. And because they have no way to express. And I know we keep talking about sex, right? I know we keep talking about sex, right? I know we keep talking about sex, right? But I I what the conversation piece that But I I what the conversation piece that But I I what the conversation piece that I think is always missing is that it's I think is always missing is that it's I think is always missing is that it's more than just sex. It's about love. more than just sex. It's about love. more than just sex. It's about love. It's who you love with. It's the way It's who you love with. It's the way It's who you love with. It's the way that you're wired. And I know we'll that you're wired. And I know we'll that you're wired. And I know we'll disagree with this, but I really feel disagree with this, but I really feel disagree with this, but I really feel that in my mother's womb, God designed that in my mother's womb, God designed that in my mother's womb, God designed me this way. I'm not just born in the me this way. I'm not just born in the me this way. I'm not just born in the same principle this way. It's the way same principle this way. It's the way same principle this way. It's the way that I'm designed. It's the way that I that I'm designed. It's the way that I that I'm designed. It's the way that I kind of see the world. And I don't want kind of see the world. And I don't want kind of see the world. And I don't want to affirm a lot of stereotypes, but to affirm a lot of stereotypes, but to affirm a lot of stereotypes, but there's markers. You can tell when there's markers. You can tell when there's markers. You can tell when someone's gay. You don't have to watch someone's gay. You don't have to watch someone's gay. You don't have to watch them having sex, right? So there's them having sex, right? So there's them having sex, right? So there's different ways that you can spot a gay different ways that you can spot a gay different ways that you can spot a gay person. And I think there's a reason for person. And I think there's a reason for person. And I think there's a reason for that. And I've noticed so many pastors that. And I've noticed so many pastors that. And I've noticed so many pastors kids come out as gay. And I really feel kids come out as gay. And I really feel kids come out as gay. And I really feel like there's this movement and when you like there's this movement and when you like there's this movement and when you were talking about how there was the, were talking about how there was the, were talking about how there was the, you know, the abolitionists who use the you know, the abolitionists who use the you know, the abolitionists who use the same Bible to come against slavery, same Bible to come against slavery, same Bible to come against slavery, there's also an affirming movement where there's also an affirming movement where there's also an affirming movement where the same people that love like me love the same people that love like me love the same people that love like me love the Bible, rever the Bible, are using the Bible, rever the Bible, are using the Bible, rever the Bible, are using that same Bible to say, "Hey, maybe that same Bible to say, "Hey, maybe that same Bible to say, "Hey, maybe we've misunderstood something. Maybe we we've misunderstood something. Maybe we we've misunderstood something. Maybe we were condemning samesex behavior because were condemning samesex behavior because were condemning samesex behavior because in those circumstances, it absolutely in those circumstances, it absolutely in those circumstances, it absolutely was idolatrous, abusive, right? It was idolatrous, abusive, right? It was idolatrous, abusive, right? It wasn't about them being in committed, wasn't about them being in committed, wasn't about them being in committed, monogous, covenantal relationships." And monogous, covenantal relationships." And monogous, covenantal relationships." And the whole totality of scripture tells us the whole totality of scripture tells us the whole totality of scripture tells us that if you love God with everything.

that if you love God with everything. that if you love God with everything. >> So it's very interesting what he says >> So it's very interesting what he says >> So it's very interesting what he says there about how there's now an affirming there about how there's now an affirming there about how there's now an affirming movement about homosexuality. And it's movement about homosexuality. And it's movement about homosexuality. And it's very interesting because if you look at very interesting because if you look at very interesting because if you look at the slave trade, let's say, you got the slave trade, let's say, you got the slave trade, let's say, you got Leviticus, you got the letters of Paul Leviticus, you got the letters of Paul Leviticus, you got the letters of Paul that do obviously I don't agree with it, that do obviously I don't agree with it, that do obviously I don't agree with it, but they do endorse, you could make an but they do endorse, you could make an but they do endorse, you could make an argument slavery and because of argument slavery and because of argument slavery and because of historical contact context in historical contact context in historical contact context in theological interpretation of what Paul theological interpretation of what Paul theological interpretation of what Paul was saying and what it said in Leviticus was saying and what it said in Leviticus was saying and what it said in Leviticus kind of the old covenant, we now kind of the old covenant, we now kind of the old covenant, we now obviously view slavery in a different obviously view slavery in a different obviously view slavery in a different light. And it was Christians who were light. And it was Christians who were light. And it was Christians who were key in abolishing slavery. But let's not key in abolishing slavery. But let's not key in abolishing slavery. But let's not get mistaken, ladies and gentlemen. It get mistaken, ladies and gentlemen. It get mistaken, ladies and gentlemen. It was plantation owners literally using was plantation owners literally using was plantation owners literally using the Bible to justify slavery. And if you the Bible to justify slavery. And if you the Bible to justify slavery. And if you are being honest with scripture, you are being honest with scripture, you are being honest with scripture, you could make the argument there's more to could make the argument there's more to could make the argument there's more to support endorsing slavery than there is support endorsing slavery than there is support endorsing slavery than there is to condemn homosexuality. But why is to condemn homosexuality. But why is to condemn homosexuality. But why is there such a focus on homosexuality? Um, there such a focus on homosexuality? Um, there such a focus on homosexuality? Um, and I think that's a it's it's always and I think that's a it's it's always and I think that's a it's it's always important to be honest, I think, how we important to be honest, I think, how we important to be honest, I think, how we interpret scripture. Now, some people interpret scripture. Now, some people interpret scripture. Now, some people could say that that's that's a could say that that's that's a could say that that's that's a completely wrong view. And there's way completely wrong view. And there's way completely wrong view. And there's way more to show that homosexuality is more to show that homosexuality is more to show that homosexuality is wrong. The way Jesus affirms male and wrong. The way Jesus affirms male and wrong. The way Jesus affirms male and female partnerships, that's an female partnerships, that's an female partnerships, that's an interesting view. Whenever he speaks interesting view. Whenever he speaks interesting view. Whenever he speaks about it, well, he doesn't specify. He about it, well, he doesn't specify. He about it, well, he doesn't specify. He he only affirms male and woman he only affirms male and woman he only affirms male and woman relationships. However, you could also relationships. However, you could also relationships. However, you could also say if Jesus was to affirm say if Jesus was to affirm say if Jesus was to affirm homosexuality, one, homosexuality didn't homosexuality, one, homosexuality didn't homosexuality, one, homosexuality didn't the word didn't exist, the view of what

the word didn't exist, the view of what the word didn't exist, the view of what homosexuality is today didn't exist. homosexuality is today didn't exist. homosexuality is today didn't exist. Second of all, what if he did that, Second of all, what if he did that, Second of all, what if he did that, people would then, you could say, make people would then, you could say, make people would then, you could say, make the stretch that Jesus was endorsing, the stretch that Jesus was endorsing, the stretch that Jesus was endorsing, you know, um, male on young boys you know, um, male on young boys you know, um, male on young boys sex, which would be very disturbing sex, which would be very disturbing sex, which would be very disturbing obviously, um, if the son of God is obviously, um, if the son of God is obviously, um, if the son of God is endorsing something, you know, vile like endorsing something, you know, vile like endorsing something, you know, vile like that. Um because what that. Um because what that. Um because what what was homosexual back then was a what was homosexual back then was a what was homosexual back then was a either a view of excess or it was a either a view of excess or it was a either a view of excess or it was a dominant thing. So like you know young dominant thing. So like you know young dominant thing. So like you know young servants and their masters it was viewed servants and their masters it was viewed servants and their masters it was viewed that excess led to these homosexuality that excess led to these homosexuality that excess led to these homosexuality these samesex attractions and people these samesex attractions and people these samesex attractions and people would indulge in it and there's very would indulge in it and there's very would indulge in it and there's very kind of different historical takes on kind of different historical takes on kind of different historical takes on that and I need to learn more but it's that and I need to learn more but it's that and I need to learn more but it's it's interesting what he's saying and it's interesting what he's saying and it's interesting what he's saying and also how he's flipped on its head where also how he's flipped on its head where also how he's flipped on its head where he says he loves the Bible he affirms he says he loves the Bible he affirms he says he loves the Bible he affirms the Bible he you know and that kind of the Bible he you know and that kind of the Bible he you know and that kind of counters a view often we say where counters a view often we say where counters a view often we say where someone's like oh well if they view this someone's like oh well if they view this someone's like oh well if they view this they're postmodern they're liberal they they're postmodern they're liberal they they're postmodern they're liberal they don't believe in anything when he's don't believe in anything when he's don't believe in anything when he's actually saying, "No, I love the Bible.

actually saying, "No, I love the Bible. actually saying, "No, I love the Bible. I love what it says, but if there's room I love what it says, but if there's room I love what it says, but if there's room for evolving, if there's room to come to for evolving, if there's room to come to for evolving, if there's room to come to a kind of newer understanding of of a kind of newer understanding of of a kind of newer understanding of of slavery and things of this, why cannot slavery and things of this, why cannot slavery and things of this, why cannot we entertain the issue of we entertain the issue of we entertain the issue of homosexuality?" So, it'll be interesting homosexuality?" So, it'll be interesting homosexuality?" So, it'll be interesting to see what she responded. to see what she responded. to see what she responded. >> Your heart, your mind, your strength, >> Your heart, your mind, your strength, >> Your heart, your mind, your strength, your soul, everything, and you love your your soul, everything, and you love your your soul, everything, and you love your neighbor as yourself. You are keeping neighbor as yourself. You are keeping neighbor as yourself. You are keeping the whole law. Which is why when Jesus the whole law. Which is why when Jesus the whole law. Which is why when Jesus healed people on the Sabbath, they healed people on the Sabbath, they healed people on the Sabbath, they thought he was breaking the law. But thought he was breaking the law. But thought he was breaking the law. But see, he went full circle and said, "You see, he went full circle and said, "You see, he went full circle and said, "You don't understand. The law is made to don't understand. The law is made to don't understand. The law is made to show us how to love." And so I think show us how to love." And so I think show us how to love." And so I think what really hurts me when I see myself, what really hurts me when I see myself, what really hurts me when I see myself, I see gay people, they want to fall in I see gay people, they want to fall in I see gay people, they want to fall in love. They want to be in love. They're love. They want to be in love. They're love. They want to be in love. They're terrified to tell their parents about terrified to tell their parents about terrified to tell their parents about what it is that I'm going through as a what it is that I'm going through as a what it is that I'm going through as a gay person to say, "Well, you just need gay person to say, "Well, you just need gay person to say, "Well, you just need to stay single." Because if you act on to stay single." Because if you act on to stay single." Because if you act on it, if you love someone, you're going to it, if you love someone, you're going to it, if you love someone, you're going to want to have sex with him. And if you want to have sex with him. And if you want to have sex with him. And if you have sex with him, that's evil and have sex with him, that's evil and have sex with him, that's evil and wicked and you're going to hell. When I wicked and you're going to hell. When I wicked and you're going to hell. When I see the LGBT community sometimes kind see the LGBT community sometimes kind see the LGBT community sometimes kind of, you know, if you can't beat them, of, you know, if you can't beat them, of, you know, if you can't beat them, join them, kind of getting really, join them, kind of getting really, join them, kind of getting really, really rebellious. I kind of envision really rebellious. I kind of envision really rebellious. I kind of envision like the the good Christians that are like the the good Christians that are like the the good Christians that are all heterosexual are kind of guarding all heterosexual are kind of guarding all heterosexual are kind of guarding the well. And we all have a God-shaped the well. And we all have a God-shaped the well. And we all have a God-shaped hole in our heart. We're all thirsty for hole in our heart. We're all thirsty for hole in our heart. We're all thirsty for something. And if you're saying, "You something. And if you're saying, "You something. And if you're saying, "You can't drink here with me because you're can't drink here with me because you're can't drink here with me because you're wicked." Well, they have to satisfy that wicked." Well, they have to satisfy that wicked." Well, they have to satisfy that thirst somehow. So, they're going to go thirst somehow. So, they're going to go thirst somehow. So, they're going to go out and, well, I can drink this. It's, out and, well, I can drink this. It's, out and, well, I can drink this. It's, you know, a deserted pool water or you know, a deserted pool water or you know, a deserted pool water or sewage or whatever it is. And I'm not sewage or whatever it is. And I'm not sewage or whatever it is. And I'm not trying to shade the gay community, but trying to shade the gay community, but trying to shade the gay community, but some people are like, you know, Gilbert, some people are like, you know, Gilbert, some people are like, you know, Gilbert, I don't care. I don't care if I go to I don't care. I don't care if I go to I don't care. I don't care if I go to hell. I welcome going to hell because I hell. I welcome going to hell because I hell. I welcome going to hell because I have no healthy outlet. I can't wait have no healthy outlet. I can't wait have no healthy outlet. I can't wait until marriage because I could never until marriage because I could never until marriage because I could never even get married. And I think that that even get married. And I think that that even get married. And I think that that pushes people into promiscuity.

pushes people into promiscuity. pushes people into promiscuity. >> Okay. Well, thank you so much for >> Okay. Well, thank you so much for >> Okay. Well, thank you so much for explaining all of that. And first I want explaining all of that. And first I want explaining all of that. And first I want to acknowledge that for people who are to acknowledge that for people who are to acknowledge that for people who are not attracted to the same sex that it not attracted to the same sex that it not attracted to the same sex that it could be very difficult to understand could be very difficult to understand could be very difficult to understand the pain that someone would feel to the pain that someone would feel to the pain that someone would feel to hear, "Hey, it is not biblical for you hear, "Hey, it is not biblical for you hear, "Hey, it is not biblical for you to get married. It is not biblical for to get married. It is not biblical for to get married. It is not biblical for you to be in a relationship. It's not you to be in a relationship. It's not you to be in a relationship. It's not biblical for you to love in that way." I biblical for you to love in that way." I biblical for you to love in that way." I imagine that that is extremely imagine that that is extremely imagine that that is extremely difficult, extremely confusing, difficult, extremely confusing, difficult, extremely confusing, extremely distressing from an early age, extremely distressing from an early age, extremely distressing from an early age, especially if you are raised in a home especially if you are raised in a home especially if you are raised in a home that says, "Hey, this is what the Bible that says, "Hey, this is what the Bible that says, "Hey, this is what the Bible says about marriage and sexuality, and says about marriage and sexuality, and says about marriage and sexuality, and it's not that." So, I think we should it's not that." So, I think we should it's not that." So, I think we should acknowledge that while also acknowledge that while also acknowledge that while also acknowledging that each and every one of acknowledging that each and every one of acknowledging that each and every one of us sins. So fair play to her for kind of us sins. So fair play to her for kind of us sins. So fair play to her for kind of acknowledging that because while she acknowledging that because while she acknowledging that because while she obviously has a different view on it, obviously has a different view on it, obviously has a different view on it, it's great that she has compassion, it's great that she has compassion, it's great that she has compassion, empathy in that sense and can understand empathy in that sense and can understand empathy in that sense and can understand the hurt and pain down the years over the hurt and pain down the years over the hurt and pain down the years over that which I think is very important that which I think is very important that which I think is very important wherever you sit. If as Christians, if wherever you sit. If as Christians, if wherever you sit. If as Christians, if someone is hurting, if someone's in someone is hurting, if someone's in someone is hurting, if someone's in pain, if someone or a community does pain, if someone or a community does pain, if someone or a community does feel hurt, whatever you view that, our feel hurt, whatever you view that, our feel hurt, whatever you view that, our hearts should go out to them because hearts should go out to them because hearts should go out to them because we're Christians, you know, we we must we're Christians, you know, we we must we're Christians, you know, we we must do everything in love. As Paul writes in do everything in love. As Paul writes in do everything in love. As Paul writes in Corinthians, um Corinthians, um Corinthians, um that's what makes the world go round and that's what makes the world go round and that's what makes the world go round and we should always have love whatever, you we should always have love whatever, you we should always have love whatever, you know, whatever view. If someone has a know, whatever view. If someone has a know, whatever view. If someone has a wacky view, we should try and understand wacky view, we should try and understand wacky view, we should try and understand why they get to that view. Um because why they get to that view. Um because why they get to that view. Um because the heart of every single thing we the heart of every single thing we the heart of every single thing we should do should always be love.

should do should always be love. should do should always be love. >> Each and every one of us has a >> Each and every one of us has a >> Each and every one of us has a disordered desire. Each and every one of disordered desire. Each and every one of disordered desire. Each and every one of us has a feeling that is not in us has a feeling that is not in us has a feeling that is not in congruence with scripture. And God does congruence with scripture. And God does congruence with scripture. And God does not say, "Hey, well, you know what? If not say, "Hey, well, you know what? If not say, "Hey, well, you know what? If that feeling that you have, whether it's that feeling that you have, whether it's that feeling that you have, whether it's homosexual desire or whether it's desire homosexual desire or whether it's desire homosexual desire or whether it's desire to have sex with someone outside of to have sex with someone outside of to have sex with someone outside of marriage, if that feeling is strong marriage, if that feeling is strong marriage, if that feeling is strong enough, then you can just go ahead and enough, then you can just go ahead and enough, then you can just go ahead and do it." He asks us to do really do it." He asks us to do really do it." He asks us to do really difficult things. He literally asks us difficult things. He literally asks us difficult things. He literally asks us to take up a cross, which is a form of to take up a cross, which is a form of to take up a cross, which is a form of execution. So, it's interesting what she execution. So, it's interesting what she execution. So, it's interesting what she says. They're disordered. And I think says. They're disordered. And I think says. They're disordered. And I think this is, and my mom actually said this, this is, and my mom actually said this, this is, and my mom actually said this, who is a very affirming Christian, she who is a very affirming Christian, she who is a very affirming Christian, she said to me, how can a gay person almost said to me, how can a gay person almost said to me, how can a gay person almost not entertain self-hatred or view not entertain self-hatred or view not entertain self-hatred or view themselves as wrong if their natural themselves as wrong if their natural themselves as wrong if their natural monogous consent instinct is viewed as monogous consent instinct is viewed as monogous consent instinct is viewed as disordered? Because it's like let's say disordered? Because it's like let's say disordered? Because it's like let's say we when we lust we viewed our whole we when we lust we viewed our whole we when we lust we viewed our whole selves as disordered. We heterosexual selves as disordered. We heterosexual selves as disordered. We heterosexual people could then get to the point where people could then get to the point where people could then get to the point where they think well I hate who I am. My they think well I hate who I am. My they think well I hate who I am. My natural impulse is completely wrong. Now natural impulse is completely wrong. Now natural impulse is completely wrong. Now the Christian view on lust is it's not a the Christian view on lust is it's not a the Christian view on lust is it's not a natural impulse in a sense and I think natural impulse in a sense and I think natural impulse in a sense and I think that's where Christians go wrong in this that's where Christians go wrong in this that's where Christians go wrong in this sense. they view um I mean you know sense. they view um I mean you know sense. they view um I mean you know Clyde Staples Lewis the man myth the Clyde Staples Lewis the man myth the Clyde Staples Lewis the man myth the legend speaks about legend speaks about legend speaks about um you know for years and years and um you know for years and years and um you know for years and years and years sexuality and what it means has years sexuality and what it means has years sexuality and what it means has become more and more open and spoken become more and more open and spoken become more and more open and spoken about yet we seem to be in more and more about yet we seem to be in more and more about yet we seem to be in more and more of a mess.

of a mess. of a mess. Um so it's either you know Christian's Um so it's either you know Christian's Um so it's either you know Christian's view on sexual ethics is wrong or um view on sexual ethics is wrong or um view on sexual ethics is wrong or um we've I have butchered that we've gone we've I have butchered that we've gone we've I have butchered that we've gone wrong. I have absolutely butchered that. wrong. I have absolutely butchered that. wrong. I have absolutely butchered that. Sorry about that. But the point he's Sorry about that. But the point he's Sorry about that. But the point he's making is basically our human selves are making is basically our human selves are making is basically our human selves are not something wrong or to be frowned not something wrong or to be frowned not something wrong or to be frowned upon frowned upon. I mean if you look at upon frowned upon. I mean if you look at upon frowned upon. I mean if you look at the great divorce fantastic book about the great divorce fantastic book about the great divorce fantastic book about heaven and hell by CS Lewis he speaks heaven and hell by CS Lewis he speaks heaven and hell by CS Lewis he speaks about you know the blades of grass were about you know the blades of grass were about you know the blades of grass were so sharp they could almost pierce my so sharp they could almost pierce my so sharp they could almost pierce my feet. And he was talking about heaven. feet. And he was talking about heaven. feet. And he was talking about heaven. And why was he talking about that? And why was he talking about that? And why was he talking about that? Because he was making the very profound Because he was making the very profound Because he was making the very profound point that to truly be human is to feel point that to truly be human is to feel point that to truly be human is to feel the most human. To feel the most the most human. To feel the most the most human. To feel the most emotion. Like humans want to feel. emotion. Like humans want to feel. emotion. Like humans want to feel. That's all we want to do. You know, it's That's all we want to do. You know, it's That's all we want to do. You know, it's look why why do people do drugs? Why do look why why do people do drugs? Why do look why why do people do drugs? Why do people do roller coasters? Why do people people do roller coasters? Why do people people do roller coasters? Why do people take risks? Why do people start take risks? Why do people start take risks? Why do people start businesses? Why do you know, we want to businesses? Why do you know, we want to businesses? Why do you know, we want to feel. We really, really want to feel. feel. We really, really want to feel. feel. We really, really want to feel. And that's sometimes the alluring thing And that's sometimes the alluring thing And that's sometimes the alluring thing about self-pity because we we go to a about self-pity because we we go to a about self-pity because we we go to a place where all we want to do is feel place where all we want to do is feel place where all we want to do is feel like the feeling of numbness and the like the feeling of numbness and the like the feeling of numbness and the feeling of disconnect is is the thing we feeling of disconnect is is the thing we feeling of disconnect is is the thing we don't really crave in our hearts and um don't really crave in our hearts and um don't really crave in our hearts and um you know when you look at who we are as you know when you look at who we are as you know when you look at who we are as humans when we have these lustful humans when we have these lustful humans when we have these lustful feelings like the Christian view and feelings like the Christian view and feelings like the Christian view and entity writer famous historian speaks entity writer famous historian speaks entity writer famous historian speaks about this that is not a Christian about this that is not a Christian about this that is not a Christian feeling and I think the big damage gets feeling and I think the big damage gets feeling and I think the big damage gets done in the church is when we view our done in the church is when we view our done in the church is when we view our our biological selves as wrong. So, you

our biological selves as wrong. So, you our biological selves as wrong. So, you know, making love our sexuality that know, making love our sexuality that know, making love our sexuality that passion we have is is a beautiful passion we have is is a beautiful passion we have is is a beautiful wonderful thing. And when we really wonderful thing. And when we really wonderful thing. And when we really embrace it in all its might, it's just embrace it in all its might, it's just embrace it in all its might, it's just the best thing ever and euphoria. And we the best thing ever and euphoria. And we the best thing ever and euphoria. And we feel the most human because our human feel the most human because our human feel the most human because our human selves is us connecting closest in a way selves is us connecting closest in a way selves is us connecting closest in a way to God. And that's why, you know, to God. And that's why, you know, to God. And that's why, you know, Christians do believe wait until Christians do believe wait until Christians do believe wait until marriage is important because when we're marriage is important because when we're marriage is important because when we're in that union, we can really experience in that union, we can really experience in that union, we can really experience the full fruit of what it means to love the full fruit of what it means to love the full fruit of what it means to love and to have sex and to, you know, never and to have sex and to, you know, never and to have sex and to, you know, never leave that person and to become one leave that person and to become one leave that person and to become one flesh. And when we do just have sex on flesh. And when we do just have sex on flesh. And when we do just have sex on the whim or just have some, we don't the whim or just have some, we don't the whim or just have some, we don't actually feel the fruit and the euphoria actually feel the fruit and the euphoria actually feel the fruit and the euphoria of all it could be. Um but the the of all it could be. Um but the the of all it could be. Um but the the distorted view would be that like you distorted view would be that like you distorted view would be that like you know sex is wrong and that's not the know sex is wrong and that's not the know sex is wrong and that's not the case. So when she speaks about case. So when she speaks about case. So when she speaks about disordered, I can understand why he's disordered, I can understand why he's disordered, I can understand why he's come from a place where he's like, come from a place where he's like, come from a place where he's like, "Well, how can that not be hurtful? If "Well, how can that not be hurtful? If "Well, how can that not be hurtful? If our natural self, our natural consent our natural self, our natural consent our natural self, our natural consent and monogous self is wrong, then how can and monogous self is wrong, then how can and monogous self is wrong, then how can how can we not hate ourselves?" And it's how can we not hate ourselves?" And it's how can we not hate ourselves?" And it's it's a very very good point, I think, it's a very very good point, I think, it's a very very good point, I think, and I still haven't seen a very good and I still haven't seen a very good and I still haven't seen a very good rebuttal to this, but who knows? We'll rebuttal to this, but who knows? We'll rebuttal to this, but who knows? We'll see what she says. Comment below what see what she says. Comment below what see what she says. Comment below what what your thoughts on that. to carry it.

what your thoughts on that. to carry it. what your thoughts on that. to carry it. And I know Christians who lived openly And I know Christians who lived openly And I know Christians who lived openly as gay for a long time. And I'm not as gay for a long time. And I'm not as gay for a long time. And I'm not giving you some trit pray the gay away giving you some trit pray the gay away giving you some trit pray the gay away motto here, but people who truly have motto here, but people who truly have motto here, but people who truly have said, "I am living in repentance because said, "I am living in repentance because said, "I am living in repentance because everywhere I see holy sexuality everywhere I see holy sexuality everywhere I see holy sexuality described in scripture. It's between one described in scripture. It's between one described in scripture. It's between one man and one woman. I see the man and one woman. I see the man and one woman. I see the condemnation of homosexuality." And they condemnation of homosexuality." And they condemnation of homosexuality." And they have chosen painfully yet joyfully to have chosen painfully yet joyfully to have chosen painfully yet joyfully to take up that cross and deny themselves take up that cross and deny themselves take up that cross and deny themselves and to follow Christ. And that is what and to follow Christ. And that is what and to follow Christ. And that is what we are all called to. we are all called to. we are all called to. >> But they're still gay. >> But they're still gay. >> But they're still gay. >> I don't define people as that. I would >> I don't define people as that. I would >> I don't define people as that. I would say that they are Christians. Maybe they say that they are Christians. Maybe they say that they are Christians. Maybe they struggle with samesex attraction and struggle with samesex attraction and struggle with samesex attraction and they may the word samesex attraction, it they may the word samesex attraction, it they may the word samesex attraction, it really is a way out of this conversation really is a way out of this conversation really is a way out of this conversation because it's erasing everything else because it's erasing everything else because it's erasing everything else that goes with you. that goes with you. that goes with you. >> I think being having your identity tied >> I think being having your identity tied >> I think being having your identity tied to whom you want to have sex with is to whom you want to have sex with is to whom you want to have sex with is wrong. And I think that wrong. And I think that wrong. And I think that >> so so that's a so that's a very good >> so so that's a so that's a very good >> so so that's a so that's a very good point she makes there because in our you point she makes there because in our you point she makes there because in our you know 21st century selves our sexuality know 21st century selves our sexuality know 21st century selves our sexuality is so vital to who we are is, you know, is so vital to who we are is, you know, is so vital to who we are is, you know, it's what people obsess about. It's it's what people obsess about. It's it's what people obsess about. It's every film, sex, every perfume, after every film, sex, every perfume, after every film, sex, every perfume, after shave, clothes, whatever it is. So much shave, clothes, whatever it is. So much shave, clothes, whatever it is. So much of who we are is built upon our sexual of who we are is built upon our sexual of who we are is built upon our sexual desire and that's a complete perversion desire and that's a complete perversion desire and that's a complete perversion of it. You know, I mean to bring Clive of it. You know, I mean to bring Clive of it. You know, I mean to bring Clive Staples Lewis back into it when he Staples Lewis back into it when he Staples Lewis back into it when he speaks about society and he says, you speaks about society and he says, you speaks about society and he says, you know, if you went to a society that had know, if you went to a society that had know, if you went to a society that had food and they loved food and they all food and they loved food and they all food and they loved food and they all sat around and watch a strip tease of sat around and watch a strip tease of sat around and watch a strip tease of them undressing a food with them licking them undressing a food with them licking them undressing a food with them licking their lips and stomachs and you know their lips and stomachs and you know their lips and stomachs and you know gluttonous for it, you'd think something gluttonous for it, you'd think something gluttonous for it, you'd think something has gone horribly wrong. And he makes

has gone horribly wrong. And he makes has gone horribly wrong. And he makes the point that's what's happened to sex. the point that's what's happened to sex. the point that's what's happened to sex. If you look at the way we worship sex, If you look at the way we worship sex, If you look at the way we worship sex, it's fair to say something has gone it's fair to say something has gone it's fair to say something has gone horribly wrong here. Why is there's this horribly wrong here. Why is there's this horribly wrong here. Why is there's this crazy obsession with it. It's the thing crazy obsession with it. It's the thing crazy obsession with it. It's the thing that makes everything sell. Um, so it's that makes everything sell. Um, so it's that makes everything sell. Um, so it's it's a good point she's making that kind it's a good point she's making that kind it's a good point she's making that kind of postmodern view that, you know, so of postmodern view that, you know, so of postmodern view that, you know, so much of identity is these immutable much of identity is these immutable much of identity is these immutable characteristics and that's completely characteristics and that's completely characteristics and that's completely wrong. you know, it's it's what's wrong wrong. you know, it's it's what's wrong wrong. you know, it's it's what's wrong with the kind of woke side of um you with the kind of woke side of um you with the kind of woke side of um you know, white privilege and all that, but know, white privilege and all that, but know, white privilege and all that, but also on on the kind of more um also on on the kind of more um also on on the kind of more um right-wing side of kind of right-wing side of kind of right-wing side of kind of ethnationalism where you base people's ethnationalism where you base people's ethnationalism where you base people's identity and worth on immutable identity and worth on immutable identity and worth on immutable characteristics. You're going down a a characteristics. You're going down a a characteristics. You're going down a a place of hair almost. place of hair almost. place of hair almost. >> I agree that it's not the mentality of >> I agree that it's not the mentality of >> I agree that it's not the mentality of who you are, but it's part of you. who you are, but it's part of you. who you are, but it's part of you. You're heterosexual, I'm assuming. You're heterosexual, I'm assuming. You're heterosexual, I'm assuming. Right. Is that part of who you are? It Right. Is that part of who you are? It Right. Is that part of who you are? It is part of who you are. The same way is part of who you are. The same way is part of who you are. The same way that my being gay is part of who I am. that my being gay is part of who I am. that my being gay is part of who I am. It's not all of me, but it is part of me It's not all of me, but it is part of me It's not all of me, but it is part of me and it will not change. So, I don't and it will not change. So, I don't and it will not change. So, I don't think that I'm making it my identity to think that I'm making it my identity to think that I'm making it my identity to just stress, hey, there's something just stress, hey, there's something just stress, hey, there's something going on with me that I want to talk going on with me that I want to talk going on with me that I want to talk about because it's not just me ignoring about because it's not just me ignoring about because it's not just me ignoring something. And again, the whole exgay something. And again, the whole exgay something. And again, the whole exgay movement, the reason why that has even movement, the reason why that has even movement, the reason why that has even gone somewhere is because they've been gone somewhere is because they've been gone somewhere is because they've been successfully culturally able to redefine successfully culturally able to redefine successfully culturally able to redefine what gay means. It doesn't just mean, what gay means. It doesn't just mean, what gay means. It doesn't just mean, you know, that's why I have an issue you know, that's why I have an issue you know, that's why I have an issue with samesex attraction. They're saying with samesex attraction. They're saying with samesex attraction. They're saying that if we redefine what gay is and make that if we redefine what gay is and make that if we redefine what gay is and make it about behavior, then we don't have to it about behavior, then we don't have to it about behavior, then we don't have to deal with the orientation part. That's I deal with the orientation part. That's I deal with the orientation part. That's I feel what the bigger issue is the or feel what the bigger issue is the or feel what the bigger issue is the or >> so that's that's a very interesting >> so that's that's a very interesting >> so that's that's a very interesting argument where he speaks about how argument where he speaks about how argument where he speaks about how there's been a massive shift from there's been a massive shift from there's been a massive shift from conversion therapy from praying the gay conversion therapy from praying the gay conversion therapy from praying the gay away from exorisms and all this thing

away from exorisms and all this thing away from exorisms and all this thing are viewing that we can kind of get rid are viewing that we can kind of get rid are viewing that we can kind of get rid of gayness like we can just get rid of of gayness like we can just get rid of of gayness like we can just get rid of it and it's clear the stats show that it and it's clear the stats show that it and it's clear the stats show that that doesn't work. Um so therefore that doesn't work. Um so therefore that doesn't work. Um so therefore what's happened had to happen is we we what's happened had to happen is we we what's happened had to happen is we we then the church has then become well then the church has then become well then the church has then become well it's the act of being gay. There's been it's the act of being gay. There's been it's the act of being gay. There's been an even on you could say the more an even on you could say the more an even on you could say the more conservative side there's been a an conservative side there's been a an conservative side there's been a an evolution of how they view same sex evolution of how they view same sex evolution of how they view same sex attraction simply because of what's been attraction simply because of what's been attraction simply because of what's been uncovered in the truth of all that which uncovered in the truth of all that which uncovered in the truth of all that which is very interesting I think what you is very interesting I think what you is very interesting I think what you saying there saying there saying there >> part >> part >> part all of us are oriented towards sin in all of us are oriented towards sin in all of us are oriented towards sin in one way or another but then we have one way or another but then we have one way or another but then we have people who I'm not saying that these people who I'm not saying that these people who I'm not saying that these people who I'm talking about I'm people who I'm talking about I'm people who I'm talking about I'm thinking of Rosario Butterfield and thinking of Rosario Butterfield and thinking of Rosario Butterfield and Christopher Yuan and Becket Cook and you Christopher Yuan and Becket Cook and you Christopher Yuan and Becket Cook and you know I don't know where all of them know I don't know where all of them know I don't know where all of them stand when it comes to their own stand when it comes to their own stand when it comes to their own feelings and they wouldn't say feelings and they wouldn't say feelings and they wouldn't say necessarily that those feelings are necessarily that those feelings are necessarily that those feelings are going to go away in the same way that my going to go away in the same way that my going to go away in the same way that my desire to sin in other ways may never go desire to sin in other ways may never go desire to sin in other ways may never go away until glory but we're saying that away until glory but we're saying that away until glory but we're saying that following Jesus even when it's difficult following Jesus even when it's difficult following Jesus even when it's difficult is worth it and it might mean designing is worth it and it might mean designing is worth it and it might mean designing something that denying something that we something that denying something that we something that denying something that we really want really want really want >> I agree with you that we should avoid >> I agree with you that we should avoid >> I agree with you that we should avoid sin but see again there's I don't sin but see again there's I don't sin but see again there's I don't believe it's a sin to be gay believe it's a sin to be gay believe it's a sin to be gay >> how do you define sin and where do you >> how do you define sin and where do you >> how do you define sin and where do you get that definition get that definition get that definition >> right so if we want to talk about the >> right so if we want to talk about the >> right so if we want to talk about the word abomination which a lot of people word abomination which a lot of people word abomination which a lot of people use for Leviticus to which is to go use for Leviticus to which is to go use for Leviticus to which is to go against ritual right and then the words against ritual right and then the words against ritual right and then the words is it h I can't pronounce Hebrew just to is it h I can't pronounce Hebrew just to is it h I can't pronounce Hebrew just to miss the mark. Right. Right. Right. So miss the mark. Right. Right. Right. So miss the mark. Right. Right. Right. So the difference I believe that sin is to the difference I believe that sin is to the difference I believe that sin is to commit something that is unloving.

commit something that is unloving. commit something that is unloving. Right. To go against God's will. And Right. To go against God's will. And Right. To go against God's will. And >> how do you define love? >> how do you define love? >> how do you define love? >> That's a great question. Um well love is >> That's a great question. Um well love is >> That's a great question. Um well love is an action. Love is a choice. Love is a an action. Love is a choice. Love is a an action. Love is a choice. Love is a decision. Right. I love you. I just met decision. Right. I love you. I just met decision. Right. I love you. I just met you but I love you. Um I don't really you but I love you. Um I don't really you but I love you. Um I don't really know that any really anybody really has know that any really anybody really has know that any really anybody really has a strong definition. It can be a strong definition. It can be a strong definition. It can be different. different. different. >> God. So God is love. 1 John 48 when he >> God. So God is love. 1 John 48 when he >> God. So God is love. 1 John 48 when he says that first Corinth in 1 Corinthians says that first Corinth in 1 Corinthians says that first Corinth in 1 Corinthians 13:6 that love never rejoices in 13:6 that love never rejoices in 13:6 that love never rejoices in wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth. wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth. wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth. And when we see in separate parts of And when we see in separate parts of And when we see in separate parts of scripture that he calls homosexuality scripture that he calls homosexuality scripture that he calls homosexuality wrongdoing, it seems to me, well, he wrongdoing, it seems to me, well, he wrongdoing, it seems to me, well, he does in Romans 1 and 1 Corinthians 6. does in Romans 1 and 1 Corinthians 6. does in Romans 1 and 1 Corinthians 6. >> In Romans 1, they men were straight. >> In Romans 1, they men were straight. >> In Romans 1, they men were straight. They they abandoned their wives to be They they abandoned their wives to be They they abandoned their wives to be >> We don't see that. I don't see that. >> We don't see that. I don't see that. >> We don't see that. I don't see that. >> It literally says that they abandon >> It literally says that they abandon >> It literally says that they abandon their women. Straight men don't have or their women. Straight men don't have or their women. Straight men don't have or gay men don't have women. gay men don't have women. gay men don't have women. >> They abandon natural relations with >> They abandon natural relations with >> They abandon natural relations with women. It didn't say natural relations, women. It didn't say natural relations, women. It didn't say natural relations, natural relationships inflamed with lust natural relationships inflamed with lust natural relationships inflamed with lust for one another for one another. Lust is for one another for one another. Lust is for one another for one another. Lust is not love. They were inflamed with lust not love. They were inflamed with lust not love. They were inflamed with lust for one another. It goes on to say that for one another. It goes on to say that for one another. It goes on to say that they were god-hating, that they uh were they were god-hating, that they uh were they were god-hating, that they uh were murderers, that they were god right a murderers, that they were god right a murderers, that they were god right a lot about disorders. lot about disorders. lot about disorders. That's why Romans gay people. That's my That's why Romans gay people. That's my That's why Romans gay people. That's my whole point. You're reading Sodom and whole point. You're reading Sodom and whole point. You're reading Sodom and Gomorrah and you think that gay people Gomorrah and you think that gay people Gomorrah and you think that gay people all want to gang bang each other and all want to gang bang each other and all want to gang bang each other and rape each other. Yes, rape each other. Yes, rape each other. Yes, >> I've never said that. >> I've never said that. >> I've never said that. >> But so do you think that Sodom and >> But so do you think that Sodom and >> But so do you think that Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because of Gomorrah was destroyed because of Gomorrah was destroyed because of homosexuality?

homosexuality? homosexuality? >> Well, let me read you Jude. Is it >> Well, let me read you Jude. Is it >> Well, let me read you Jude. Is it >> So that's very interesting. So he speaks >> So that's very interesting. So he speaks >> So that's very interesting. So he speaks about how when Paul refers to about how when Paul refers to about how when Paul refers to homosexuality, he's not referring to a homosexuality, he's not referring to a homosexuality, he's not referring to a monogous consenting monogous consenting monogous consenting relationship. And it's a fair point to relationship. And it's a fair point to relationship. And it's a fair point to say that that was out of the paradox of say that that was out of the paradox of say that that was out of the paradox of what a Jew or Gentile would have thought what a Jew or Gentile would have thought what a Jew or Gentile would have thought of homosexuality back then. So he's of homosexuality back then. So he's of homosexuality back then. So he's making the point about making the point about making the point about the view was that excess consumption led the view was that excess consumption led the view was that excess consumption led to homosexuality, not the natural to homosexuality, not the natural to homosexuality, not the natural inclination of it. And also with Sodom inclination of it. And also with Sodom inclination of it. And also with Sodom and Gomorrah famously, they did indulge and Gomorrah famously, they did indulge and Gomorrah famously, they did indulge in samesex relations, but it was the in samesex relations, but it was the in samesex relations, but it was the type of relation they had. It wasn't type of relation they had. It wasn't type of relation they had. It wasn't monogous. It wasn't consented. And monogous. It wasn't consented. And monogous. It wasn't consented. And whenever it's referred to Sodom and whenever it's referred to Sodom and whenever it's referred to Sodom and Gomorrah, it doesn't affirm that that's Gomorrah, it doesn't affirm that that's Gomorrah, it doesn't affirm that that's why they were killed, it refers to that why they were killed, it refers to that why they were killed, it refers to that because of hospitality or um people say because of hospitality or um people say because of hospitality or um people say I mean there's so many nuances to it and I mean there's so many nuances to it and I mean there's so many nuances to it and but it's it's a very interesting point but it's it's a very interesting point but it's it's a very interesting point he makes and that's why history and the he makes and that's why history and the he makes and that's why history and the truth is so important because she's truth is so important because she's truth is so important because she's saying no Romans 8 ref or 28 I can't saying no Romans 8 ref or 28 I can't saying no Romans 8 ref or 28 I can't even remember refers to the condemnation even remember refers to the condemnation even remember refers to the condemnation of samesexuality and he said, "Well, no, of samesexuality and he said, "Well, no, of samesexuality and he said, "Well, no, if you actually look into it, what was if you actually look into it, what was if you actually look into it, what was viewed as samesex attraction had a viewed as samesex attraction had a viewed as samesex attraction had a completely different meaning to what it completely different meaning to what it completely different meaning to what it does now." So, it would have been crazy does now." So, it would have been crazy does now." So, it would have been crazy for Paul back then to endorse it or to for Paul back then to endorse it or to for Paul back then to endorse it or to because one, he wouldn't have really because one, he wouldn't have really because one, he wouldn't have really even known about that and second of all, even known about that and second of all, even known about that and second of all, the interpretation of people he was the interpretation of people he was the interpretation of people he was writing to like in Corinth would have writing to like in Corinth would have writing to like in Corinth would have been completely different. So,

been completely different. So, been completely different. So, it's an interesting argument, but again, it's an interesting argument, but again, it's an interesting argument, but again, if you have a completely different view if you have a completely different view if you have a completely different view and you have some kind of historicity and you have some kind of historicity and you have some kind of historicity about all this, then chuck in the about all this, then chuck in the about all this, then chuck in the comments. I'd love to love to see what comments. I'd love to love to see what comments. I'd love to love to see what you have to say. But you have to say. But you have to say. But >> I know that they're comparable but with >> I know that they're comparable but with >> I know that they're comparable but with respect, a lot of people do. respect, a lot of people do. respect, a lot of people do. >> Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding >> Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding >> Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in cities, which likewise indulged in cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural sexual immorality and pursued unnatural sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by desire, serve as an example by desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire. undergoing a punishment of eternal fire. undergoing a punishment of eternal fire. So actually we read in the New Testament So actually we read in the New Testament So actually we read in the New Testament that Sodom and Gomorrah were actually that Sodom and Gomorrah were actually that Sodom and Gomorrah were actually because of that they were exceedingly because of that they were exceedingly because of that they were exceedingly wicked. You think if you're exceeding wicked. You think if you're exceeding wicked. You think if you're exceeding wicked you're like we'll do everything wicked you're like we'll do everything wicked you're like we'll do everything but have weird sex. They but have weird sex. They but have weird sex. They >> Why do you think that God called that >> Why do you think that God called that >> Why do you think that God called that out? out? out? >> Because what are you calling weird sex? >> Because what are you calling weird sex? >> Because what are you calling weird sex? >> Rape. That's pretty weird. >> Rape. That's pretty weird. >> Rape. That's pretty weird. >> Yeah. I mean of course that's more >> Yeah. I mean of course that's more >> Yeah. I mean of course that's more trying to rape people is weird. trying to rape people is weird. trying to rape people is weird. >> But they're intentionally calling out >> But they're intentionally calling out >> But they're intentionally calling out the homosexuality and that's not calling the homosexuality and that's not calling the homosexuality and that's not calling out homosexuality desire there. Okay. I out homosexuality desire there. Okay. I out homosexuality desire there. Okay. I Okay, we'll disagree on that part. Okay. Okay, we'll disagree on that part. Okay. Okay, we'll disagree on that part. Okay. >> But and I will >> But and I will >> But and I will >> so what's interesting that they didn't >> so what's interesting that they didn't >> so what's interesting that they didn't really come to a conclusion, but again really come to a conclusion, but again really come to a conclusion, but again it that's why history matters so much it that's why history matters so much it that's why history matters so much and that's why I'm kind of very and that's why I'm kind of very and that's why I'm kind of very interested in I mean even archaeology interested in I mean even archaeology interested in I mean even archaeology discoveries or finding out about this discoveries or finding out about this discoveries or finding out about this you know that's why I love NT right Tom you know that's why I love NT right Tom you know that's why I love NT right Tom Holland and you know Barman even. Um, Holland and you know Barman even. Um, Holland and you know Barman even. Um, like I love hearing about these like I love hearing about these like I love hearing about these different perspectives from Christian different perspectives from Christian different perspectives from Christian and non-Christian and non-Christian and non-Christian about how they view homosexuality cuz about how they view homosexuality cuz about how they view homosexuality cuz it's such a um, it's such a um, it's such a um, you know, complex issue.

you know, complex issue. you know, complex issue. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> I will say that on Romans 1, I really >> I will say that on Romans 1, I really >> I will say that on Romans 1, I really find it offensive that people think that find it offensive that people think that find it offensive that people think that that of gay people that we all are we that of gay people that we all are we that of gay people that we all are we hate faith, we hate our parents, we're hate faith, we hate our parents, we're hate faith, we hate our parents, we're murderers, we're gossip. Somebody sat me murderers, we're gossip. Somebody sat me murderers, we're gossip. Somebody sat me down and told me that. They're like, down and told me that. They're like, down and told me that. They're like, "Look, Gilbert, this is this is you." I "Look, Gilbert, this is this is you." I "Look, Gilbert, this is this is you." I said, "Really? That's do you think that said, "Really? That's do you think that said, "Really? That's do you think that I'm this person, right? Cuz Paul's I'm this person, right? Cuz Paul's I'm this person, right? Cuz Paul's describing who this kind of person is. describing who this kind of person is. describing who this kind of person is. And I think that you know And I think that you know And I think that you know >> earlier you were talking to somebody who >> earlier you were talking to somebody who >> earlier you were talking to somebody who uh you allowed context, right, about uh you allowed context, right, about uh you allowed context, right, about slavery. slavery. slavery. >> I would hope that the church would be >> I would hope that the church would be >> I would hope that the church would be more open to hearing context about why more open to hearing context about why more open to hearing context about why these sameex behaviors were condemned these sameex behaviors were condemned these sameex behaviors were condemned and not just think it was because they and not just think it was because they and not just think it was because they were the same sex. were the same sex. were the same sex. >> Can I ask you a question that actually >> Can I ask you a question that actually >> Can I ask you a question that actually doesn't have to do with that? Do you doesn't have to do with that? Do you doesn't have to do with that? Do you believe that Jesus is the believe that Jesus is the believe that Jesus is the >> So that's a very good point he makes >> So that's a very good point he makes >> So that's a very good point he makes there because and I think this is the there because and I think this is the there because and I think this is the strongest argument wherever you sit on strongest argument wherever you sit on strongest argument wherever you sit on it. Why is the church breaking up? And it. Why is the church breaking up? And it. Why is the church breaking up? And it kind of concludes stuff. Why are the it kind of concludes stuff. Why are the it kind of concludes stuff. Why are the church breaking up over homosexuality? church breaking up over homosexuality? church breaking up over homosexuality? Because hypocrisy, pride, selfishness, Because hypocrisy, pride, selfishness, Because hypocrisy, pride, selfishness, lack of generosity, lack of generosity, lack of generosity, you know, purity of heart. These are you know, purity of heart. These are you know, purity of heart. These are issues that are reiterated throughout issues that are reiterated throughout issues that are reiterated throughout the whole of scripture. every story, the the whole of scripture. every story, the the whole of scripture. every story, the gospels, you know, this is the heart of gospels, you know, this is the heart of gospels, you know, this is the heart of I mean quite literally the heart of I mean quite literally the heart of I mean quite literally the heart of everything. So why are people not everything. So why are people not everything. So why are people not breaking up over that? Why why is there breaking up over that? Why why is there breaking up over that? Why why is there not this split up about that? Like for not this split up about that? Like for not this split up about that? Like for instance, kindness. That's the way instance, kindness. That's the way instance, kindness. That's the way someone defines kindness and what it someone defines kindness and what it someone defines kindness and what it means to be kind. It would be means to be kind. It would be means to be kind. It would be understandable if the church split on understandable if the church split on understandable if the church split on something like that. If a bunch of something like that. If a bunch of something like that. If a bunch of people were like, you know, tithing is

people were like, you know, tithing is people were like, you know, tithing is not important or um, you know, the way not important or um, you know, the way not important or um, you know, the way you give should be this way and then you give should be this way and then you give should be this way and then some other Christians like, no, it some other Christians like, no, it some other Christians like, no, it should be like this. It'd be should be like this. It'd be should be like this. It'd be understandable if that separated stuff understandable if that separated stuff understandable if that separated stuff in the sense that that's so pivotal to in the sense that that's so pivotal to in the sense that that's so pivotal to what Jesus spoke about. So, fair enough what Jesus spoke about. So, fair enough what Jesus spoke about. So, fair enough them kind of going their separate ways them kind of going their separate ways them kind of going their separate ways over that. Um, even if it would be sad over that. Um, even if it would be sad over that. Um, even if it would be sad to break up over that, but it's to break up over that, but it's to break up over that, but it's interesting point that like there's such interesting point that like there's such interesting point that like there's such focus on homosexuality focus on homosexuality focus on homosexuality when there's so many other verses in when there's so many other verses in when there's so many other verses in scripture because it's not even scripture because it's not even scripture because it's not even referenced a lot in scripture, the whole referenced a lot in scripture, the whole referenced a lot in scripture, the whole Bible. Um, Bible. Um, Bible. Um, why is there this division and fixation why is there this division and fixation why is there this division and fixation on it? It doesn't quite make sense. Um, on it? It doesn't quite make sense. Um, on it? It doesn't quite make sense. Um, and it's, I think, very sad because and it's, I think, very sad because and it's, I think, very sad because whatever your view is on this, the fact whatever your view is on this, the fact whatever your view is on this, the fact that this can be the thing that that this can be the thing that that this can be the thing that separates Christians, separates Christians, separates Christians, I I don't see how this could be it. you I I don't see how this could be it. you I I don't see how this could be it. you know, it really seems too petty and um know, it really seems too petty and um know, it really seems too petty and um not right because like you know, I'm a not right because like you know, I'm a not right because like you know, I'm a heterosexual man who has attraction to heterosexual man who has attraction to heterosexual man who has attraction to females and I don't find if whatever my females and I don't find if whatever my females and I don't find if whatever my view is, I don't find a gay person has view is, I don't find a gay person has view is, I don't find a gay person has any kind of any kind of any kind of degrading to my love for a woman. I degrading to my love for a woman. I degrading to my love for a woman. I really don't. Um yeah, we we'll see what really don't. Um yeah, we we'll see what really don't. Um yeah, we we'll see what she says here anyway.

she says here anyway. she says here anyway. >> Only way to heaven. I absolutely do. >> Only way to heaven. I absolutely do. >> Only way to heaven. I absolutely do. >> You do. You believe in John 14:6 that >> You do. You believe in John 14:6 that >> You do. You believe in John 14:6 that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the Jesus is the way, the truth, and the Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. That no one goes to heaven%. Yes. life. That no one goes to heaven%. Yes. life. That no one goes to heaven%. Yes. >> I'm so glad that we agree on that. So >> I'm so glad that we agree on that. So >> I'm so glad that we agree on that. So often I see when people deny Genesis often I see when people deny Genesis often I see when people deny Genesis 1:27 or they deny Romans 1, they also 1:27 or they deny Romans 1, they also 1:27 or they deny Romans 1, they also end up denying John 14:6. And so I'm end up denying John 14:6. And so I'm end up denying John 14:6. And so I'm glad that we agree on that because I glad that we agree on that because I glad that we agree on that because I know people will read this be like, know people will read this be like, know people will read this be like, "Wow, Gilbert, I didn't know you felt "Wow, Gilbert, I didn't know you felt "Wow, Gilbert, I didn't know you felt this way." Um, it's because you won't this way." Um, it's because you won't this way." Um, it's because you won't have a savior. We're all going to be have a savior. We're all going to be have a savior. We're all going to be judged at the end of our life. And it's judged at the end of our life. And it's judged at the end of our life. And it's not that you're being punished for not not that you're being punished for not not that you're being punished for not believing in Jesus. It's you just won't believing in Jesus. It's you just won't believing in Jesus. It's you just won't have a savior. We're all going to be have a savior. We're all going to be have a savior. We're all going to be judged. So that's what it is. I want to judged. So that's what it is. I want to judged. So that's what it is. I want to have a savior. I I had to learn what have a savior. I I had to learn what have a savior. I I had to learn what that was about. So, I don't want people that was about. So, I don't want people that was about. So, I don't want people to think that I'm just being like, "Oh, to think that I'm just being like, "Oh, to think that I'm just being like, "Oh, Jesus will punish you for not believing Jesus will punish you for not believing Jesus will punish you for not believing him." It's because you won't have him." It's because you won't have him." It's because you won't have somebody on the final day to vouch for somebody on the final day to vouch for somebody on the final day to vouch for you. you. you. >> Well, I think that's an interesting an >> Well, I think that's an interesting an >> Well, I think that's an interesting an interesting way to say it, and I'm glad interesting way to say it, and I'm glad interesting way to say it, and I'm glad that we agree on John 14:6. That's that we agree on John 14:6. That's that we agree on John 14:6. That's really, really important. So, thank you really, really important. So, thank you really, really important. So, thank you so much. so much. so much. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. >> We did it. >> We did it. >> We did it. >> We did. Yes. >> We did. Yes. >> We did. Yes. >> Good job. >> Good job. >> Good job. >> Thank you. Good to have you. >> Thank you. Good to have you. >> Thank you. Good to have you. >> So, I thought that was a very sweet >> So, I thought that was a very sweet >> So, I thought that was a very sweet interaction. And it's it's good that interaction. And it's it's good that interaction. And it's it's good that they had love and compassion for each they had love and compassion for each they had love and compassion for each other there at the end. And even if they other there at the end. And even if they other there at the end. And even if they disagreed, they did it in a wholesome, disagreed, they did it in a wholesome, disagreed, they did it in a wholesome, good kind of Jesus way. Um, so there we good kind of Jesus way. Um, so there we good kind of Jesus way. Um, so there we go. There we go. Ladies and gentlemen, go. There we go. Ladies and gentlemen, go. There we go. Ladies and gentlemen, the issue that's breaking up the church.

the issue that's breaking up the church. the issue that's breaking up the church. I'm going to be doing many more, many I'm going to be doing many more, many I'm going to be doing many more, many more videos on this. I'm actually more videos on this. I'm actually more videos on this. I'm actually reading a book called The Gay Christian. reading a book called The Gay Christian. reading a book called The Gay Christian. It's by someone who kind of comes from a It's by someone who kind of comes from a It's by someone who kind of comes from a very interesting place where he says very interesting place where he says very interesting place where he says basically the conservative take should basically the conservative take should basically the conservative take should actually be to affirm homosexuality, actually be to affirm homosexuality, actually be to affirm homosexuality, which is very interesting. And I'm I'm which is very interesting. And I'm I'm which is very interesting. And I'm I'm going to read all sides and I'm dipping going to read all sides and I'm dipping going to read all sides and I'm dipping my toes in the water about this issue, my toes in the water about this issue, my toes in the water about this issue, but let me know in the comments what you but let me know in the comments what you but let me know in the comments what you guys think. Um, and thank you so much guys think. Um, and thank you so much guys think. Um, and thank you so much for watching and I hope you all have a for watching and I hope you all have a for watching and I hope you all have a blessed, wonderful day and I'm going to blessed, wonderful day and I'm going to blessed, wonderful day and I'm going to be doing videos every day. I'm going to be doing videos every day. I'm going to be doing videos every day. I'm going to start uploading a lot. But, um, yeah, start uploading a lot. But, um, yeah, start uploading a lot. But, um, yeah, love you all. God bless and I'll catch love you all. God bless and I'll catch love you all. God bless and I'll catch you all in the next one. Love you soon.