The Shocking Truth About Jesus’ Baptism

This is the beginning of Jesus' [music] This is the beginning of Jesus' [music] ministry. ministry. ministry. >> And the Jordan River, the the beautiful >> And the Jordan River, the the beautiful >> And the Jordan River, the the beautiful pit uh bit where he was baptized, pit uh bit where he was baptized, pit uh bit where he was baptized, [music] you've got four pillars. And [music] you've got four pillars. And [music] you've got four pillars. And when the river runs in, and I think it's when the river runs in, and I think it's when the river runs in, and I think it's once a year, it forms a cross. And once a year, it forms a cross. And once a year, it forms a cross. And [snorts] that's a specific place where [snorts] that's a specific place where [snorts] that's a specific place where they believe [music] Jesus was baptized. they believe [music] Jesus was baptized. they believe [music] Jesus was baptized. The human self changes quite a lot when The human self changes quite a lot when The human self changes quite a lot when you see a 4-year-old child asking for you see a 4-year-old child asking for you see a 4-year-old child asking for money on the street. They only have the money on the street. They only have the money on the street. They only have the money [music] to feed half kids. If you money [music] to feed half kids. If you money [music] to feed half kids. If you look at the world, we got, you know, look at the world, we got, you know, look at the world, we got, you know, every minute we have babies that don't every minute we have babies that don't every minute we have babies that don't make it. Sam Harris [music] make it. Sam Harris [music] make it. Sam Harris [music] this incredible speech where he says, this incredible speech where he says, this incredible speech where he says, "God either sees that happen, doesn't do "God either sees that happen, doesn't do "God either sees that happen, doesn't do anything, [music] can do something, anything, [music] can do something, anything, [music] can do something, chooses not to, or let's say doesn't chooses not to, or let's say doesn't chooses not to, or let's say doesn't exist." How do you grapple with that? exist." How do you grapple with that? exist." How do you grapple with that? >> My father, he struggles with addiction. >> My father, he struggles with addiction. >> My father, he struggles with addiction. And it's generally one of the worst And it's generally one of the worst And it's generally one of the worst things I've [music] seen develop. things I've [music] seen develop. things I've [music] seen develop. >> You know, what's the thing that keeps >> You know, what's the thing that keeps >> You know, what's the thing that keeps you up at night? What's the thing that you up at night? What's the thing that you up at night? What's the thing that makes you think maybe Jesus wasn't who makes you think maybe Jesus wasn't who makes you think maybe Jesus wasn't who he says he is? Maybe God doesn't exist. he says he is? Maybe God doesn't exist. he says he is? Maybe God doesn't exist. Maybe there is no hope at the end of the Maybe there is no hope at the end of the Maybe there is no hope at the end of the tunnel. There is no light and the dark. tunnel. There is no light and the dark. tunnel. There is no light and the dark. What? What is that? [music] So, welcome ladies and gentlemen [music] So, welcome ladies and gentlemen to the first episode of the Open Faith to the first episode of the Open Faith to the first episode of the Open Faith podcast [music] where we're going to be podcast [music] where we're going to be podcast [music] where we're going to be talking to all sorts of people of all talking to all sorts of people of all talking to all sorts of people of all sorts of different faith, scholars, sorts of different faith, scholars, sorts of different faith, scholars, personal stories, all sorts about their personal stories, all sorts about their personal stories, all sorts about their spiritual faith journey and spiritual faith journey and spiritual faith journey and understanding what happened 2,000 years understanding what happened 2,000 years understanding what happened 2,000 years ago with Jesus of Nazareth. And today we ago with Jesus of Nazareth. And today we ago with Jesus of Nazareth. And today we are joined by a man who I'm friends with are joined by a man who I'm friends with are joined by a man who I'm friends with and a very very interesting smart man.

and a very very interesting smart man. and a very very interesting smart man. Got a lot of stories I'm sure it is, Got a lot of stories I'm sure it is, Got a lot of stories I'm sure it is, ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Alex Yates. ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Alex Yates. ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Alex Yates. How we doing? How we doing? How we doing? >> I'm doing very good. Thank you for >> I'm doing very good. Thank you for >> I'm doing very good. Thank you for having me on. I'm looking forward to having me on. I'm looking forward to having me on. I'm looking forward to this uh first episode and your launch of this uh first episode and your launch of this uh first episode and your launch of the podcast. the podcast. the podcast. >> So, so why don't we kick it off and >> So, so why don't we kick it off and >> So, so why don't we kick it off and speak about your favorite Bible verse, speak about your favorite Bible verse, speak about your favorite Bible verse, your favorite passage from the Bible and your favorite passage from the Bible and your favorite passage from the Bible and why that is the case. My favorite Bible why that is the case. My favorite Bible why that is the case. My favorite Bible verse is uh something that's uh I've verse is uh something that's uh I've verse is uh something that's uh I've experienced myself. It's the uh Matthew experienced myself. It's the uh Matthew experienced myself. It's the uh Matthew 3:13 and it's a story of Jesus being 3:13 and it's a story of Jesus being 3:13 and it's a story of Jesus being baptized by John the Baptist in the baptized by John the Baptist in the baptized by John the Baptist in the Jordan River. And when I say I've uh it Jordan River. And when I say I've uh it Jordan River. And when I say I've uh it is quite personal. I've been to the is quite personal. I've been to the is quite personal. I've been to the location where theologists believe that location where theologists believe that location where theologists believe that Jesus was actually baptized. And it it Jesus was actually baptized. And it it Jesus was actually baptized. And it it became my favorite verse once I had been became my favorite verse once I had been became my favorite verse once I had been to that place because I realized that to that place because I realized that to that place because I realized that that place has a uh a very strange that place has a uh a very strange that place has a uh a very strange energy to it. It's when you experience energy to it. It's when you experience energy to it. It's when you experience it, don't go wrong, you've got the heat, it, don't go wrong, you've got the heat, it, don't go wrong, you've got the heat, you've got the military buildup of the you've got the military buildup of the you've got the military buildup of the Jordanian military and the Israeli Jordanian military and the Israeli Jordanian military and the Israeli military. It's right on the border, but military. It's right on the border, but military. It's right on the border, but there's also there's a weird energy to there's also there's a weird energy to there's also there's a weird energy to it that I haven't experienced in any it that I haven't experienced in any it that I haven't experienced in any church.

church. church. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Or anywhere else. It's it's very weird. >> Or anywhere else. It's it's very weird. >> Or anywhere else. It's it's very weird. I'd recommend it to anyone. I'd recommend it to anyone. I'd recommend it to anyone. >> I I'd so love to go someday. Um but what >> I I'd so love to go someday. Um but what >> I I'd so love to go someday. Um but what for people listening because I'm sure for people listening because I'm sure for people listening because I'm sure loads of people won't know what actually loads of people won't know what actually loads of people won't know what actually is the verse. What is the passage? is the verse. What is the passage? is the verse. What is the passage? >> Um so Jesus came from Galilee to Jordan >> Um so Jesus came from Galilee to Jordan >> Um so Jesus came from Galilee to Jordan River to be baptized by John the River to be baptized by John the River to be baptized by John the Baptist. But John we know tried to stop Baptist. But John we know tried to stop Baptist. But John we know tried to stop him. He said I should be baptized by him. He said I should be baptized by him. He said I should be baptized by you. Why are you coming to me? Jesus you. Why are you coming to me? Jesus you. Why are you coming to me? Jesus answered let it happen for now. This is answered let it happen for now. This is answered let it happen for now. This is the right thing for us to do to obey God the right thing for us to do to obey God the right thing for us to do to obey God completely. So John agreed and baptized completely. So John agreed and baptized completely. So John agreed and baptized him. After Jesus was baptized, he came him. After Jesus was baptized, he came him. After Jesus was baptized, he came out out up out of the water. Suddenly out out up out of the water. Suddenly out out up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens opened and Jesus saw the the heavens opened and Jesus saw the the heavens opened and Jesus saw the spirit of God coming down like a dove spirit of God coming down like a dove spirit of God coming down like a dove and settling on him. And a voice from and settling on him. And a voice from and settling on him. And a voice from heaven said, "This is my son whom I love heaven said, "This is my son whom I love heaven said, "This is my son whom I love and I'm very pleased with him." and I'm very pleased with him." and I'm very pleased with him." >> Damn. Yeah. And I mean, what an >> Damn. Yeah. And I mean, what an >> Damn. Yeah. And I mean, what an incredible passage cuz this is this is incredible passage cuz this is this is incredible passage cuz this is this is the beginning of Jesus' ministry. And the beginning of Jesus' ministry. And the beginning of Jesus' ministry. And Yes. And it's very interesting with John Yes. And it's very interesting with John Yes. And it's very interesting with John the Baptist because a lot of people the Baptist because a lot of people the Baptist because a lot of people actually thought John the Baptist was actually thought John the Baptist was actually thought John the Baptist was the coming Messiah and there was a whole the coming Messiah and there was a whole the coming Messiah and there was a whole almost religion in a way around John the almost religion in a way around John the almost religion in a way around John the Baptist and it's very interesting that Baptist and it's very interesting that Baptist and it's very interesting that he was the man to baptize Jesus. But why he was the man to baptize Jesus. But why he was the man to baptize Jesus. But why why is this your favorite would you say?

why is this your favorite would you say? why is this your favorite would you say? Well, I think uh separated from the Well, I think uh separated from the Well, I think uh separated from the account that when I went to the account that when I went to the account that when I went to the location, but also it's uh it it removes location, but also it's uh it it removes location, but also it's uh it it removes the uh perfectness of Christianity the uh perfectness of Christianity the uh perfectness of Christianity itself where it it separates the per the itself where it it separates the per the itself where it it separates the per the the God himself who is based upon the the God himself who is based upon the the God himself who is based upon the main religion and it goes back to like main religion and it goes back to like main religion and it goes back to like the core essence of humanity where it's the core essence of humanity where it's the core essence of humanity where it's [snorts] the humbleness and it's uh not [snorts] the humbleness and it's uh not [snorts] the humbleness and it's uh not focused on how divine someone is, but focused on how divine someone is, but focused on how divine someone is, but just really focusing on the human just really focusing on the human just really focusing on the human itself. We know John the Baptist weren't itself. We know John the Baptist weren't itself. We know John the Baptist weren't um Jesus, but he was still able to um Jesus, but he was still able to um Jesus, but he was still able to baptize Jesus. And I think that goes to baptize Jesus. And I think that goes to baptize Jesus. And I think that goes to anyone cuz if you look at the especially anyone cuz if you look at the especially anyone cuz if you look at the especially if you look at the location of where the if you look at the location of where the if you look at the location of where the baptism site is, it's really in the baptism site is, it's really in the baptism site is, it's really in the wilderness in the in the middle of wilderness in the in the middle of wilderness in the in the middle of nowhere. And that that's how they nowhere. And that that's how they nowhere. And that that's how they discovered the area. And there was discovered the area. And there was discovered the area. And there was random churches there. There was steps random churches there. There was steps random churches there. There was steps built that I think it was uh the 4th built that I think it was uh the 4th built that I think it was uh the 4th century they were built in. century they were built in. century they were built in. And when you look at the location and And when you look at the location and And when you look at the location and you you look at the stories behind it, you you look at the stories behind it, you you look at the stories behind it, it was cave dwellers that lived in this it was cave dwellers that lived in this it was cave dwellers that lived in this area. And so if we compare John the area. And so if we compare John the area. And so if we compare John the Baptist to that, it's it's a really the Baptist to that, it's it's a really the Baptist to that, it's it's a really the humble people of society that baptized humble people of society that baptized humble people of society that baptized one of the well, God himself.

one of the well, God himself. one of the well, God himself. >> Yeah. No, it's it's a brilliant point >> Yeah. No, it's it's a brilliant point >> Yeah. No, it's it's a brilliant point because it it goes to show how God views because it it goes to show how God views because it it goes to show how God views everyone because I mean famously when it everyone because I mean famously when it everyone because I mean famously when it speaks about John the Baptist, he had speaks about John the Baptist, he had speaks about John the Baptist, he had locust and wild honey. Yeah. locust and wild honey. Yeah. locust and wild honey. Yeah. >> Um and the fact that God picked this >> Um and the fact that God picked this >> Um and the fact that God picked this bloke, this guy, you know, out in the bloke, this guy, you know, out in the bloke, this guy, you know, out in the wilderness who looks like complete wilderness who looks like complete wilderness who looks like complete nutter to to baptize the son of God is nutter to to baptize the son of God is nutter to to baptize the son of God is is absolutely incredible. And it's it's is absolutely incredible. And it's it's is absolutely incredible. And it's it's interesting because it's in Matthew and interesting because it's in Matthew and interesting because it's in Matthew and and I think this is a very clear part and I think this is a very clear part and I think this is a very clear part which shows Jesus's divinity or which shows Jesus's divinity or which shows Jesus's divinity or Christologology. Yeah. Um that's often Christologology. Yeah. Um that's often Christologology. Yeah. Um that's often when when people talk about that, they when when people talk about that, they when when people talk about that, they often use John as the example because often use John as the example because often use John as the example because it's the latest gospel. And that's often it's the latest gospel. And that's often it's the latest gospel. And that's often used as an argument basically about how used as an argument basically about how used as an argument basically about how >> um how how it was added in after because >> um how how it was added in after because >> um how how it was added in after because John was the latest gospel and they John was the latest gospel and they John was the latest gospel and they wanted to kind of create this narrative wanted to kind of create this narrative wanted to kind of create this narrative that he was who he says he was. He was that he was who he says he was. He was that he was who he says he was. He was >> Yes. But obviously this is Matthew. Um, >> Yes. But obviously this is Matthew. Um, >> Yes. But obviously this is Matthew. Um, and yeah, it's it's it's a great point I and yeah, it's it's it's a great point I and yeah, it's it's it's a great point I think because with Jesus we often feel think because with Jesus we often feel think because with Jesus we often feel he's very distant, but throughout the he's very distant, but throughout the he's very distant, but throughout the gospel narratives we see the people who gospel narratives we see the people who gospel narratives we see the people who are the outliers, the people who no one are the outliers, the people who no one are the outliers, the people who no one cares about, that's the people he goes cares about, that's the people he goes cares about, that's the people he goes for constantly.

for constantly. for constantly. >> Well, we know the type of people who sat >> Well, we know the type of people who sat >> Well, we know the type of people who sat around the table around the table around the table of Jesus was not your Pharisees. It was of Jesus was not your Pharisees. It was of Jesus was not your Pharisees. It was the imperfect within society, the people the imperfect within society, the people the imperfect within society, the people who didn't fit in. And John the Baptist who didn't fit in. And John the Baptist who didn't fit in. And John the Baptist is a prime example of that. And he was a is a prime example of that. And he was a is a prime example of that. And he was a man who baptized Jesus himself. So it's man who baptized Jesus himself. So it's man who baptized Jesus himself. So it's it just shows that the gatekeeping of it just shows that the gatekeeping of it just shows that the gatekeeping of Christianity is something we should all Christianity is something we should all Christianity is something we should all be against. And it's how no matter how be against. And it's how no matter how be against. And it's how no matter how imperfect someone is and sometimes the imperfect someone is and sometimes the imperfect someone is and sometimes the mistakes they may have made, it's to not mistakes they may have made, it's to not mistakes they may have made, it's to not gatekeep to allow people within the gatekeep to allow people within the gatekeep to allow people within the church, within the ministry because church, within the ministry because church, within the ministry because that's what Jesus done. and he let that's what Jesus done. and he let that's what Jesus done. and he let people sit at the table that the people people sit at the table that the people people sit at the table that the people of that time believed shouldn't be at of that time believed shouldn't be at of that time believed shouldn't be at that table. that table. that table. >> No, it's it's a fantastic point and also >> No, it's it's a fantastic point and also >> No, it's it's a fantastic point and also how the the how we can serve God and how the the how we can serve God and how the the how we can serve God and because I think often we feel Jesus or because I think often we feel Jesus or because I think often we feel Jesus or God is a very distant thing that's kind God is a very distant thing that's kind God is a very distant thing that's kind of in the ether but actually this brings of in the ether but actually this brings of in the ether but actually this brings it to the reality that we can actually it to the reality that we can actually it to the reality that we can actually >> you know love and and when we do love we >> you know love and and when we do love we >> you know love and and when we do love we are loving Jesus. Yeah. Um, so speak are loving Jesus. Yeah. Um, so speak are loving Jesus. Yeah. Um, so speak about why are you a Christian? Because about why are you a Christian? Because about why are you a Christian? Because obviously you are how old? 20.

obviously you are how old? 20. obviously you are how old? 20. >> 23. >> 23. >> 23. >> 23. So you're a young man. What brought >> 23. So you're a young man. What brought >> 23. So you're a young man. What brought you to the point where you you were you to the point where you you were you to the point where you you were believing that this man Jesus of believing that this man Jesus of believing that this man Jesus of Nazareth was the son of God? Nazareth was the son of God? Nazareth was the son of God? >> Well, it's a pretty uh it's a different >> Well, it's a pretty uh it's a different >> Well, it's a pretty uh it's a different story to I think most I I was raised story to I think most I I was raised story to I think most I I was raised atheist. Um my family are quite atheist, atheist. Um my family are quite atheist, atheist. Um my family are quite atheist, the majority of them. Uh I was never the majority of them. Uh I was never the majority of them. Uh I was never baptized. I went to a Church of England baptized. I went to a Church of England baptized. I went to a Church of England school. I never really enjoyed religion school. I never really enjoyed religion school. I never really enjoyed religion or religious studies. And then as I got or religious studies. And then as I got or religious studies. And then as I got a bit older, it's kind of a bit older, it's kind of a bit older, it's kind of you kind of seek to know more and I I you kind of seek to know more and I I you kind of seek to know more and I I always love physics. Uh trying to always love physics. Uh trying to always love physics. Uh trying to explore the sciences and don't I find it explore the sciences and don't I find it explore the sciences and don't I find it really interesting, but the more you really interesting, but the more you really interesting, but the more you look into science itself, the more you look into science itself, the more you look into science itself, the more you don't know. don't know. don't know. It's quite is is a big paradox really It's quite is is a big paradox really It's quite is is a big paradox really because the more you research something because the more you research something because the more you research something the less you know the more the less you know the more the less you know the more >> and it's quite fascinating. It's like >> and it's quite fascinating. It's like >> and it's quite fascinating. It's like that with religion itself. I believe the that with religion itself. I believe the that with religion itself. I believe the more you know about religion kind of the more you know about religion kind of the more you know about religion kind of the less you know as well because less you know as well because less you know as well because >> it's so complex. The story is timeless >> it's so complex. The story is timeless >> it's so complex. The story is timeless and it's if you look at many of the and it's if you look at many of the and it's if you look at many of the Bible passages it's very it gives you Bible passages it's very it gives you Bible passages it's very it gives you binary concepts to make you easily think binary concepts to make you easily think binary concepts to make you easily think about good and evil. uh light and dark about good and evil. uh light and dark about good and evil. uh light and dark uh Adam and Eve.

uh Adam and Eve. uh Adam and Eve. And when when you look at the binary And when when you look at the binary And when when you look at the binary concepts, it's to simplify it for you, I concepts, it's to simplify it for you, I concepts, it's to simplify it for you, I think, because think, because think, because the human mind can't really comprehend the human mind can't really comprehend the human mind can't really comprehend what God actually is because it's so far what God actually is because it's so far what God actually is because it's so far above comprehension. above comprehension. above comprehension. And I think when I was starting to look And I think when I was starting to look And I think when I was starting to look more into it, it just it interested me more into it, it just it interested me more into it, it just it interested me for one. And then I started looking more for one. And then I started looking more for one. And then I started looking more into the story of Jesus and it was just into the story of Jesus and it was just into the story of Jesus and it was just it just interested me. You had this this it just interested me. You had this this it just interested me. You had this this guy that came along preaching allowing guy that came along preaching allowing guy that came along preaching allowing people who shouldn't be sat at the table people who shouldn't be sat at the table people who shouldn't be sat at the table at his table and at his table and at his table and he could do these certain miracles that he could do these certain miracles that he could do these certain miracles that no one can explain. no one can explain. no one can explain. And then the Jews eventually And then the Jews eventually And then the Jews eventually uh crucified him. And you have these uh crucified him. And you have these uh crucified him. And you have these disciples who followed him until the disciples who followed him until the disciples who followed him until the very end and was scared to almost preach very end and was scared to almost preach very end and was scared to almost preach about him after he was crucified. Then about him after he was crucified. Then about him after he was crucified. Then all of a sudden all of a sudden all of a sudden supposedly he appears to them and then supposedly he appears to them and then supposedly he appears to them and then they are willing to be put to death for they are willing to be put to death for they are willing to be put to death for it. So when when I say I'm really it. So when when I say I'm really it. So when when I say I'm really interested in science, it's what interested in science, it's what interested in science, it's what happened between when he was crucified happened between when he was crucified happened between when he was crucified to him appearing to them in that short to him appearing to them in that short to him appearing to them in that short space of time. A human doesn't change space of time. A human doesn't change space of time. A human doesn't change that fast unless something extreme that fast unless something extreme that fast unless something extreme happens.

happens. happens. >> So where I I like looking at it from >> So where I I like looking at it from >> So where I I like looking at it from more of a scientific perspective. I more of a scientific perspective. I more of a scientific perspective. I believe something really strange believe something really strange believe something really strange happened then that science itself can't happened then that science itself can't happened then that science itself can't explain yet. And maybe we might get to a explain yet. And maybe we might get to a explain yet. And maybe we might get to a point where it can explain, but I point where it can explain, but I point where it can explain, but I believe something extremely weird believe something extremely weird believe something extremely weird happened on that occasion. And that's happened on that occasion. And that's happened on that occasion. And that's why I believe because humans don't go why I believe because humans don't go why I believe because humans don't go from hiding to being preaching like that from hiding to being preaching like that from hiding to being preaching like that and being crucified upside down or and being crucified upside down or and being crucified upside down or beheaded and going out and preaching the beheaded and going out and preaching the beheaded and going out and preaching the word word as loud as they can and being word word as loud as they can and being word word as loud as they can and being put to death for it without something put to death for it without something put to death for it without something happening in their life. happening in their life. happening in their life. >> Yeah. I mean it's a very compelling case >> Yeah. I mean it's a very compelling case >> Yeah. I mean it's a very compelling case you give there and I think one thing I you give there and I think one thing I you give there and I think one thing I think I've been thinking about recently think I've been thinking about recently think I've been thinking about recently a lot is I've been reading a book about a lot is I've been reading a book about a lot is I've been reading a book about um apparitions about Jesus appearing to um apparitions about Jesus appearing to um apparitions about Jesus appearing to people and very often we view it as a people and very often we view it as a people and very often we view it as a very distant 2,000 years ago but if you very distant 2,000 years ago but if you very distant 2,000 years ago but if you look at people in the 2000s people still look at people in the 2000s people still look at people in the 2000s people still today we are thousands of people across today we are thousands of people across today we are thousands of people across the world are having Jesus appear to the world are having Jesus appear to the world are having Jesus appear to them them them >> and it it seems too far I think to say >> and it it seems too far I think to say >> and it it seems too far I think to say that like something is going on. Why is that like something is going on. Why is that like something is going on. Why is there this man this random folk who there this man this random folk who there this man this random folk who spoke about love, kindness, help, you spoke about love, kindness, help, you spoke about love, kindness, help, you know, the downtrodd and the people no know, the downtrodd and the people no know, the downtrodd and the people no one cares about and he's still to this one cares about and he's still to this one cares about and he's still to this day people even self-d deluding that day people even self-d deluding that day people even self-d deluding that he's appearing like what is going on he's appearing like what is going on he's appearing like what is going on there? Um, and it is a good point there? Um, and it is a good point there? Um, and it is a good point because if you look at even even because if you look at even even because if you look at even even skeptical historians, they look at Paul skeptical historians, they look at Paul skeptical historians, they look at Paul for Saul who used to be Saul, the road for Saul who used to be Saul, the road for Saul who used to be Saul, the road to Damascus, this man who went around to Damascus, this man who went around to Damascus, this man who went around killing Christians, putting them in

killing Christians, putting them in killing Christians, putting them in prison, torturing them, absolutely hated prison, torturing them, absolutely hated prison, torturing them, absolutely hated him, all of a sudden goes to the same him, all of a sudden goes to the same him, all of a sudden goes to the same places and people like, "What the hell places and people like, "What the hell places and people like, "What the hell are you doing here?" Yeah. are you doing here?" Yeah. are you doing here?" Yeah. >> And he's actually converting people. And >> And he's actually converting people. And >> And he's actually converting people. And even historians like Tom Holland or or even historians like Tom Holland or or even historians like Tom Holland or or certain historians who don't have a certain historians who don't have a certain historians who don't have a faith, they still cannot explain why faith, they still cannot explain why faith, they still cannot explain why these things happened. Um, so I I guess these things happened. Um, so I I guess these things happened. Um, so I I guess my question is what did you what do you my question is what did you what do you my question is what did you what do you think happened? Do you think the gospel think happened? Do you think the gospel think happened? Do you think the gospel is accurate? How far how do you take the is accurate? How far how do you take the is accurate? How far how do you take the text? Like text? Like text? Like >> I mean for me I believe there is more >> I mean for me I believe there is more >> I mean for me I believe there is more evidence out there that's either evidence out there that's either evidence out there that's either destroyed or we've been yet to discover destroyed or we've been yet to discover destroyed or we've been yet to discover it. Um archaeologists have said this. Uh it. Um archaeologists have said this. Uh it. Um archaeologists have said this. Uh we know how much of the the gospels we know how much of the the gospels we know how much of the the gospels kind of were found and some of them kind of were found and some of them kind of were found and some of them destroyed uh accidentally obviously or destroyed uh accidentally obviously or destroyed uh accidentally obviously or on purpose. We don't know. And so it's on purpose. We don't know. And so it's on purpose. We don't know. And so it's like I believe there are more answers like I believe there are more answers like I believe there are more answers out there. And so when people say you out there. And so when people say you out there. And so when people say you should only follow the Christian should only follow the Christian should only follow the Christian Christianity that was written 2,000 Christianity that was written 2,000 Christianity that was written 2,000 years ago, no no Christianity is a is a years ago, no no Christianity is a is a years ago, no no Christianity is a is a living religion living religion living religion >> that should it can evolve it. We we can >> that should it can evolve it. We we can >> that should it can evolve it. We we can find out more. It's it's a pursuit of find out more. It's it's a pursuit of find out more. It's it's a pursuit of knowledge knowledge knowledge >> and yeah the pursuit of betterment I >> and yeah the pursuit of betterment I >> and yeah the pursuit of betterment I think of our understanding of what think of our understanding of what think of our understanding of what actually happened. And I believe in that actually happened. And I believe in that actually happened. And I believe in that small period of time where Jesus was small period of time where Jesus was small period of time where Jesus was crucified crucified crucified and then rose from the dead and appeared and then rose from the dead and appeared and then rose from the dead and appeared to people,

to people, to people, I I think it's incomprehensible to the I I think it's incomprehensible to the I I think it's incomprehensible to the human mind because we we don't really we human mind because we we don't really we human mind because we we don't really we don't know the science behind it. So don't know the science behind it. So don't know the science behind it. So it's it's it's it is quite hard to explain. But for me, it is quite hard to explain. But for me, it is quite hard to explain. But for me, I just believe something extremely I just believe something extremely I just believe something extremely strange strange strange >> that we've never really experienced >> that we've never really experienced >> that we've never really experienced before actually happened. And the reason before actually happened. And the reason before actually happened. And the reason people b it off is just because it's one people b it off is just because it's one people b it off is just because it's one of the well the rarest thing to ever of the well the rarest thing to ever of the well the rarest thing to ever happen on Earth. happen on Earth. happen on Earth. And but the more you start to look into And but the more you start to look into And but the more you start to look into certain stuff within science, within certain stuff within science, within certain stuff within science, within religion, religion, religion, there are extremely rare stuff that there are extremely rare stuff that there are extremely rare stuff that happens happens happens more than we think. We just don't look more than we think. We just don't look more than we think. We just don't look for it. for it. for it. >> That's interesting. I mean it's it's >> That's interesting. I mean it's it's >> That's interesting. I mean it's it's like a book I read by CS Lewis on like a book I read by CS Lewis on like a book I read by CS Lewis on miracles and he he speaks about how miracles and he he speaks about how miracles and he he speaks about how historians when they read passages so historians when they read passages so historians when they read passages so like let's say John or parts of the like let's say John or parts of the like let's say John or parts of the gospels where Jesus fulfills a prophecy gospels where Jesus fulfills a prophecy gospels where Jesus fulfills a prophecy or or or >> or performs a certain act or predicts >> or performs a certain act or predicts >> or performs a certain act or predicts his death they they look at that like a his death they they look at that like a his death they they look at that like a lot of scholars and there is bias to lot of scholars and there is bias to lot of scholars and there is bias to everything just like Christians they everything just like Christians they everything just like Christians they will automatically view that well that will automatically view that well that will automatically view that well that couldn't have been written before couldn't have been written before couldn't have been written before because because because >> well he he couldn't have predicted that >> well he he couldn't have predicted that >> well he he couldn't have predicted that and I I think that's a very good point and I I think that's a very good point and I I think that's a very good point of how biased we all are. And I think as of how biased we all are. And I think as of how biased we all are. And I think as a Christian as well, like some people a Christian as well, like some people a Christian as well, like some people say, oh, you know, the Bible's the word say, oh, you know, the Bible's the word say, oh, you know, the Bible's the word of God. And then it's like, well, at the of God. And then it's like, well, at the of God. And then it's like, well, at the council of NA, all the books they didn't council of NA, all the books they didn't council of NA, all the books they didn't include. Well, were they not the word of include. Well, were they not the word of include. Well, were they not the word of God? Was was um the Gospel of Judas, was

God? Was was um the Gospel of Judas, was God? Was was um the Gospel of Judas, was that the word of God? Like, that the word of God? Like, that the word of God? Like, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> there's a kind of there's a really big >> there's a kind of there's a really big >> there's a kind of there's a really big issue there. And you see um that takes a issue there. And you see um that takes a issue there. And you see um that takes a lot of people away from Christianity. lot of people away from Christianity. lot of people away from Christianity. Um, but I guess like what at it what was Um, but I guess like what at it what was Um, but I guess like what at it what was like the kind of turning point? Was it like the kind of turning point? Was it like the kind of turning point? Was it did you wake up one day and was like I did you wake up one day and was like I did you wake up one day and was like I believe was it like you know you saw a I believe was it like you know you saw a I believe was it like you know you saw a I don't know a apologist or like what what don't know a apologist or like what what don't know a apologist or like what what kind of was it? kind of was it? kind of was it? >> Uh the more I researched into it I think >> Uh the more I researched into it I think >> Uh the more I researched into it I think I'm I'm a big believer in the pursuit of I'm I'm a big believer in the pursuit of I'm I'm a big believer in the pursuit of knowledge and the more I looked into it knowledge and the more I looked into it knowledge and the more I looked into it the more I started to believe. So it was the more I started to believe. So it was the more I started to believe. So it was kind of like an evolving process and kind of like an evolving process and kind of like an evolving process and yeah there was some personal stuff in my yeah there was some personal stuff in my yeah there was some personal stuff in my life um that happened where you're kind life um that happened where you're kind life um that happened where you're kind of you're you're looking really deep of you're you're looking really deep of you're you're looking really deep with inside and you're with inside and you're with inside and you're >> not to me too could I ask what >> not to me too could I ask what >> not to me too could I ask what >> uh lots of family members >> uh lots of family members >> uh lots of family members uh kind of and as a young man growing up uh kind of and as a young man growing up uh kind of and as a young man growing up you you kind of want to fill you want to you you kind of want to fill you want to you you kind of want to fill you want to fill a void where you want some answers fill a void where you want some answers fill a void where you want some answers to something and you want to know where to something and you want to know where to something and you want to know where you're going and kind of what moral you're going and kind of what moral you're going and kind of what moral basis should you follow. And I think basis should you follow. And I think basis should you follow. And I think we're not really taught that anymore we're not really taught that anymore we're not really taught that anymore where the the lack of where the the lack of where the the lack of kind of support to young people.

kind of support to young people. kind of support to young people. I think that's going to cause one a I think that's going to cause one a I think that's going to cause one a massive Christian revival amongst young massive Christian revival amongst young massive Christian revival amongst young people like we saw in the United States people like we saw in the United States people like we saw in the United States uh many years ago when we saw the hippie uh many years ago when we saw the hippie uh many years ago when we saw the hippie culture and then all of a sudden a culture and then all of a sudden a culture and then all of a sudden a massive Christianity culture rise among massive Christianity culture rise among massive Christianity culture rise among young people. It's because they needed a young people. It's because they needed a young people. It's because they needed a void to be filled and that they the more void to be filled and that they the more void to be filled and that they the more they looked into it, the more they they looked into it, the more they they looked into it, the more they pursued pursued pursued to understand it, the more they to understand it, the more they to understand it, the more they believed. And so I think that goes for a believed. And so I think that goes for a believed. And so I think that goes for a lot of people where at first they might lot of people where at first they might lot of people where at first they might read it, they might skim the text and read it, they might skim the text and read it, they might skim the text and they might be like, "Oh no, I don't they might be like, "Oh no, I don't they might be like, "Oh no, I don't believe this could happen." But the more believe this could happen." But the more believe this could happen." But the more you actually research into the Bible and you actually research into the Bible and you actually research into the Bible and then texts that are not in the Bible and then texts that are not in the Bible and then texts that are not in the Bible and the the history of it, the what the the history of it, the what the the history of it, the what Capernium, what Galile, what Jerusalem Capernium, what Galile, what Jerusalem Capernium, what Galile, what Jerusalem would have been like in them times, the would have been like in them times, the would have been like in them times, the more you might actually start to more you might actually start to more you might actually start to believe. M believe. M believe. M >> and I think there's a great TV show that >> and I think there's a great TV show that >> and I think there's a great TV show that I I really enjoy that kind of helped me I I really enjoy that kind of helped me I I really enjoy that kind of helped me understand it more because it kind of understand it more because it kind of understand it more because it kind of visualized it for me. It was The Chosen.

visualized it for me. It was The Chosen. visualized it for me. It was The Chosen. I brilliant crowdfunded TV series I brilliant crowdfunded TV series I brilliant crowdfunded TV series and and and that kind of that kind of that kind of made it a bit more personal because you made it a bit more personal because you made it a bit more personal because you could you could put a picture like you could you could put a picture like you could you could put a picture like you could put a face to some of the could put a face to some of the could put a face to some of the disciples to Jesus himself and also just disciples to Jesus himself and also just disciples to Jesus himself and also just the the environment they were in. the the environment they were in. the the environment they were in. >> And these were just the disciples are >> And these were just the disciples are >> And these were just the disciples are just regular people. They they were the just regular people. They they were the just regular people. They they were the pe they're your neighbors. they they pe they're your neighbors. they they pe they're your neighbors. they they work colleagues. work colleagues. work colleagues. They they're just they're the ordinary They they're just they're the ordinary They they're just they're the ordinary folk within society. They they weren't folk within society. They they weren't folk within society. They they weren't the Pharisees. They weren't the the most the Pharisees. They weren't the the most the Pharisees. They weren't the the most knowing. And so I think that's really knowing. And so I think that's really knowing. And so I think that's really important to understand. It's just important to understand. It's just important to understand. It's just pursue more knowledge on this to pursue more knowledge on this to pursue more knowledge on this to understand it if you are seeking the understand it if you are seeking the understand it if you are seeking the knowledge. knowledge. knowledge. >> Yeah. I I think that's such a good point >> Yeah. I I think that's such a good point >> Yeah. I I think that's such a good point you you speak about there because the you you speak about there because the you you speak about there because the disciples also I mean some of them would disciples also I mean some of them would disciples also I mean some of them would have been probably teenagers. We don't have been probably teenagers. We don't have been probably teenagers. We don't know. And it the notion as well that know. And it the notion as well that know. And it the notion as well that that some like someone in a fishing boat that some like someone in a fishing boat that some like someone in a fishing boat would just give up everything he ever would just give up everything he ever would just give up everything he ever done.

done. done. >> We we can't even fathom it, can you? You >> We we can't even fathom it, can you? You >> We we can't even fathom it, can you? You can't even picture it. And I think it's can't even picture it. And I think it's can't even picture it. And I think it's so important to get in the mindset of a so important to get in the mindset of a so important to get in the mindset of a Jew back then because Jew back then because Jew back then because >> who they thought God would come >> who they thought God would come >> who they thought God would come >> and be was so different from what came. >> and be was so different from what came. >> and be was so different from what came. And that and it's the ultimate kind of And that and it's the ultimate kind of And that and it's the ultimate kind of story that makes the most sense. And we story that makes the most sense. And we story that makes the most sense. And we I always speak about it makes the most I always speak about it makes the most I always speak about it makes the most sense cuz we got it wrong. We thought sense cuz we got it wrong. We thought sense cuz we got it wrong. We thought God would be this, you know, this God would be this, you know, this God would be this, you know, this incredible figure when actually Jesus incredible figure when actually Jesus incredible figure when actually Jesus came, I came to serve, not to be served. came, I came to serve, not to be served. came, I came to serve, not to be served. >> And it's it it makes the most sense. And >> And it's it it makes the most sense. And >> And it's it it makes the most sense. And this the idea of love and how this the idea of love and how this the idea of love and how >> this thing he spoke about love still >> this thing he spoke about love still >> this thing he spoke about love still controls everything. It's why people controls everything. It's why people controls everything. It's why people hate themselves, why people love hate themselves, why people love hate themselves, why people love themselves too much. It's it's the heart themselves too much. It's it's the heart themselves too much. It's it's the heart of everything. Um I I guess a question I of everything. Um I I guess a question I of everything. Um I I guess a question I have within that is you speak about kind have within that is you speak about kind have within that is you speak about kind of this hunger, this longing for God and of this hunger, this longing for God and of this hunger, this longing for God and Jesus and Christianity. What like what Jesus and Christianity. What like what Jesus and Christianity. What like what do you say to someone who says do you say to someone who says do you say to someone who says >> that's all well and good but surely that >> that's all well and good but surely that >> that's all well and good but surely that has a massive sway over it being true or has a massive sway over it being true or has a massive sway over it being true or not because you you almost want it to not because you you almost want it to not because you you almost want it to be. you have this hunger to worship be. you have this hunger to worship be. you have this hunger to worship something or to and you know I don't something or to and you know I don't something or to and you know I don't know nature well but like his view of know nature well but like his view of know nature well but like his view of like like like that that is a kind of self delusion of that that is a kind of self delusion of that that is a kind of self delusion of of ourselves to want something to be of ourselves to want something to be of ourselves to want something to be true so we make it true but that doesn't true so we make it true but that doesn't true so we make it true but that doesn't mean it is true kind of thing what how mean it is true kind of thing what how mean it is true kind of thing what how would you respond to that you know let's would you respond to that you know let's would you respond to that you know let's say of Richard Dawkins or Christopher say of Richard Dawkins or Christopher say of Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens like like what do you say to Hitchens like like what do you say to Hitchens like like what do you say to that that that >> well we know they're they've said >> well we know they're they've said >> well we know they're they've said themselves that they're culturally themselves that they're culturally themselves that they're culturally Christian so when we look at the

Christian so when we look at the Christian so when we look at the culturally the reason they're saying it culturally the reason they're saying it culturally the reason they're saying it is because obviously They were raised um is because obviously They were raised um is because obviously They were raised um in a Christian lifestyle where be in a Christian lifestyle where be in a Christian lifestyle where be loving, be kind, be patient. loving, be kind, be patient. loving, be kind, be patient. And And And well, I think that that goes back to well, I think that that goes back to well, I think that that goes back to my my my core principle is just I my my my core principle is just I my my my core principle is just I pursued something and the more I read pursued something and the more I read pursued something and the more I read about it, the more I believed it to be about it, the more I believed it to be about it, the more I believed it to be true. And like I said with the the true. And like I said with the the true. And like I said with the the martyrdom theory where what happened in martyrdom theory where what happened in martyrdom theory where what happened in that short space of time for them to that short space of time for them to that short space of time for them to really believe that's what makes me really believe that's what makes me really believe that's what makes me believe it is true because young people believe it is true because young people believe it is true because young people who have can be quite impressionable who have can be quite impressionable who have can be quite impressionable don't just do that for no reason. Young don't just do that for no reason. Young don't just do that for no reason. Young people don't want to give up their lives people don't want to give up their lives people don't want to give up their lives for something they do not believe or for something they do not believe or for something they do not believe or know to be true. know to be true. know to be true. >> What do you say to someone who says well >> What do you say to someone who says well >> What do you say to someone who says well you know we're seeing young men go out you know we're seeing young men go out you know we're seeing young men go out to ISIS for instance. We we saw that to ISIS for instance. We we saw that to ISIS for instance. We we saw that happen in droves. Like what what's your happen in droves. Like what what's your happen in droves. Like what what's your response to that? people willing to blow response to that? people willing to blow response to that? people willing to blow themselves up in the name of believing themselves up in the name of believing themselves up in the name of believing something. How how do you square that? something. How how do you square that? something. How how do you square that? >> Well, I think it's difference between >> Well, I think it's difference between >> Well, I think it's difference between nurture and nature. Uh for me, I believe nurture and nature. Uh for me, I believe nurture and nature. Uh for me, I believe God is nature and you're inherently God is nature and you're inherently God is nature and you're inherently a bias towards a certain God. But how a bias towards a certain God. But how a bias towards a certain God. But how you're nurtured is how you act. So I you're nurtured is how you act. So I you're nurtured is how you act. So I believe the people that commit the believe the people that commit the believe the people that commit the certain acts like that and can be very certain acts like that and can be very certain acts like that and can be very awful people in society, awful people in society, awful people in society, they're nurtured to come like that. I I they're nurtured to come like that. I I they're nurtured to come like that. I I don't think God intended for them to be don't think God intended for them to be don't think God intended for them to be like that and I don't think he the God like that and I don't think he the God like that and I don't think he the God will ever ever will be. But how people

will ever ever will be. But how people will ever ever will be. But how people are nurtured is by humans themselves. We are nurtured is by humans themselves. We are nurtured is by humans themselves. We know certain Christians have committed know certain Christians have committed know certain Christians have committed >> evil atrocities. Um >> evil atrocities. Um >> evil atrocities. Um but it it still doesn't go back it it but it it still doesn't go back it it but it it still doesn't go back it it still doesn't blind you to what the core still doesn't blind you to what the core still doesn't blind you to what the core principle of what Jesus taught was to be principle of what Jesus taught was to be principle of what Jesus taught was to be loving, be kind, be patient. loving, be kind, be patient. loving, be kind, be patient. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so I think it's good to separate >> And so I think it's good to separate >> And so I think it's good to separate nature and nurture. People can be nature and nurture. People can be nature and nurture. People can be nurtured a certain way, but don't that nurtured a certain way, but don't that nurtured a certain way, but don't that don't remove them from the actual nature don't remove them from the actual nature don't remove them from the actual nature and the nature is God himself. and the nature is God himself. and the nature is God himself. >> Yeah, I I think that's a good point. I I >> Yeah, I I think that's a good point. I I >> Yeah, I I think that's a good point. I I mean the way I square it is the like the mean the way I square it is the like the mean the way I square it is the like the rise of ISIS stuff. There was a rise of ISIS stuff. There was a rise of ISIS stuff. There was a predisposition to a lot of it in the way predisposition to a lot of it in the way predisposition to a lot of it in the way the UK wrecked certain places in the the UK wrecked certain places in the the UK wrecked certain places in the world. There's obviously a hatred world. There's obviously a hatred world. There's obviously a hatred towards the west and a lot of ideals and towards the west and a lot of ideals and towards the west and a lot of ideals and then also then also then also there's a there's a predisposition of there's a there's a predisposition of there's a there's a predisposition of stretching certain passages to believe stretching certain passages to believe stretching certain passages to believe certain things. Now, people could argue certain things. Now, people could argue certain things. Now, people could argue how kind of how kind of how kind of common that is, but but for a Jew back common that is, but but for a Jew back common that is, but but for a Jew back then to believe that this guy who was then to believe that this guy who was then to believe that this guy who was called King of the Jews, who was spat called King of the Jews, who was spat called King of the Jews, who was spat at, beaten up, at, beaten up, at, beaten up, >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> was Lord and Messiah was so out of the >> was Lord and Messiah was so out of the >> was Lord and Messiah was so out of the question for a Jew. Like, they didn't question for a Jew. Like, they didn't question for a Jew. Like, they didn't believe it. When when if you read the believe it. When when if you read the believe it. When when if you read the Gospels, when Jesus predicts his death, Gospels, when Jesus predicts his death, Gospels, when Jesus predicts his death, they don't they kind of don't even they don't they kind of don't even they don't they kind of don't even >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like, they either think it's weird or >> Like, they either think it's weird or >> Like, they either think it's weird or whatever. And um I mean what I guess a whatever. And um I mean what I guess a whatever. And um I mean what I guess a question would be what do you struggle question would be what do you struggle question would be what do you struggle with the most out of your faith and with the most out of your faith and with the most out of your faith and believing? believing? believing? >> I think it's the church itself. Um I >> I think it's the church itself. Um I >> I think it's the church itself. Um I think we have a really think we have a really think we have a really uh almost like a we've kind of gone back uh almost like a we've kind of gone back uh almost like a we've kind of gone back to what Jesus preached against. It was to what Jesus preached against. It was to what Jesus preached against. It was people using their religion to people using their religion to people using their religion to infiltrate politics. And I think infiltrate politics. And I think infiltrate politics. And I think religion and politics need to stay religion and politics need to stay religion and politics need to stay separate because certain people do not separate because certain people do not separate because certain people do not want to live by that. And that I do want to live by that. And that I do want to live by that. And that I do believe on the individual. An individual believe on the individual. An individual believe on the individual. An individual is imperfect. No one is perfect. is imperfect. No one is perfect. is imperfect. No one is perfect. And to reject them from society just And to reject them from society just And to reject them from society just because of their imperfectness is because of their imperfectness is because of their imperfectness is exactly what Jesus preached against.

exactly what Jesus preached against. exactly what Jesus preached against. >> So it's quite a contradictory moment >> So it's quite a contradictory moment >> So it's quite a contradictory moment when people do that in their own when people do that in their own when people do that in their own politics. I mean, what you know, judge a politics. I mean, what you know, judge a politics. I mean, what you know, judge a man by his fruits, who he who he is, I man by his fruits, who he who he is, I man by his fruits, who he who he is, I >> I understand what you mean in the >> I understand what you mean in the >> I understand what you mean in the authoritarian sense about being a authoritarian sense about being a authoritarian sense about being a theocracy and forcing people into stuff, theocracy and forcing people into stuff, theocracy and forcing people into stuff, but can you really take the politics out but can you really take the politics out but can you really take the politics out of it because that is who Jesus was and of it because that is who Jesus was and of it because that is who Jesus was and how he he views I mean, he did say give how he he views I mean, he did say give how he he views I mean, he did say give Caesars's what Caesars's and you know, Caesars's what Caesars's and you know, Caesars's what Caesars's and you know, there's there's some points you can make there's there's some points you can make there's there's some points you can make about he he did clearly separate it, but about he he did clearly separate it, but about he he did clearly separate it, but the way he challenged authority and he the way he challenged authority and he the way he challenged authority and he did claim to be king of the Jews, which did claim to be king of the Jews, which did claim to be king of the Jews, which was an authoritative position. So, it's was an authoritative position. So, it's was an authoritative position. So, it's how how do you square that? how how do you square that? how how do you square that? >> Well, I think the majority of his >> Well, I think the majority of his >> Well, I think the majority of his message is he's focusing on the message is he's focusing on the message is he's focusing on the individual and I think yeah, we we can individual and I think yeah, we we can individual and I think yeah, we we can cherrypick obviously verses within the cherrypick obviously verses within the cherrypick obviously verses within the Bible um where he does claim to be a Bible um where he does claim to be a Bible um where he does claim to be a leader, but we also need to cherrypick leader, but we also need to cherrypick leader, but we also need to cherrypick the cases where he's focusing on the the cases where he's focusing on the the cases where he's focusing on the individual.

individual. individual. the miracles that he done with to the miracles that he done with to the miracles that he done with to individuals. individuals. individuals. He was baptized by one man. It was he He was baptized by one man. It was he He was baptized by one man. It was he had a small ministry. It was I I think had a small ministry. It was I I think had a small ministry. It was I I think it's more important with Christianity to it's more important with Christianity to it's more important with Christianity to focus on the individual, the the God focus on the individual, the the God focus on the individual, the the God with within themselves. with within themselves. with within themselves. >> I mean, I don't know. I I would >> I mean, I don't know. I I would >> I mean, I don't know. I I would completely disagree. [laughter] completely disagree. [laughter] completely disagree. [laughter] Like I I think the the key thing Jesus Like I I think the the key thing Jesus Like I I think the the key thing Jesus speaks about is not to view the speaks about is not to view the speaks about is not to view the individual well in the sense that you individual well in the sense that you individual well in the sense that you should view everyone the same. And the should view everyone the same. And the should view everyone the same. And the book of James I absolutely adore because book of James I absolutely adore because book of James I absolutely adore because that's that's one of the key messages. that's that's one of the key messages. that's that's one of the key messages. You know community is is pinnacle You know community is is pinnacle You know community is is pinnacle pivotal to Christianity because pivotal to Christianity because pivotal to Christianity because >> it was about you know the commune of >> it was about you know the commune of >> it was about you know the commune of bread um and you know feeding the 5000 bread um and you know feeding the 5000 bread um and you know feeding the 5000 feed feeding the 4,000 like the the feed feeding the 4,000 like the the feed feeding the 4,000 like the the theme of community I think is right theme of community I think is right theme of community I think is right throughout Jesus's ministry. Um and uh throughout Jesus's ministry. Um and uh throughout Jesus's ministry. Um and uh deatrich Bonhoffer the German theologian deatrich Bonhoffer the German theologian deatrich Bonhoffer the German theologian speaks about community of how that that speaks about community of how that that speaks about community of how that that truly is what it is to be a Christian.

truly is what it is to be a Christian. truly is what it is to be a Christian. You cannot be a Christian without You cannot be a Christian without You cannot be a Christian without communities because that is what Jesus communities because that is what Jesus communities because that is what Jesus calls us to be in. Um you know the calls us to be in. Um you know the calls us to be in. Um you know the wrestlership of not focusing on yourself wrestlership of not focusing on yourself wrestlership of not focusing on yourself but viewing your fellow brother and but viewing your fellow brother and but viewing your fellow brother and neighbor as more than yourself or you neighbor as more than yourself or you neighbor as more than yourself or you know in that because we're so know in that because we're so know in that because we're so individualistic. We're so selfish. We individualistic. We're so selfish. We individualistic. We're so selfish. We constantly think about ourselves. You constantly think about ourselves. You constantly think about ourselves. You know, even if you think about the best know, even if you think about the best know, even if you think about the best person ever, like there are some amazing person ever, like there are some amazing person ever, like there are some amazing people, Mother Theresa or some, you people, Mother Theresa or some, you people, Mother Theresa or some, you know, incredible people. I mean, like know, incredible people. I mean, like know, incredible people. I mean, like Bonhoffer or Adore or like even I mean I Bonhoffer or Adore or like even I mean I Bonhoffer or Adore or like even I mean I bang on about CS Lewis way too much, but bang on about CS Lewis way too much, but bang on about CS Lewis way too much, but CS Lewis, like these people are CS Lewis, like these people are CS Lewis, like these people are incredible, but chances are they were incredible, but chances are they were incredible, but chances are they were thinking of themselves 70% of the time. thinking of themselves 70% of the time. thinking of themselves 70% of the time. So, um I I guess the point I'm making is So, um I I guess the point I'm making is So, um I I guess the point I'm making is how how do you square the like when you how how do you square the like when you how how do you square the like when you speak about individual? Do you are you speak about individual? Do you are you speak about individual? Do you are you talking about the rights of the talking about the rights of the talking about the rights of the individual and the autonomy or are you individual and the autonomy or are you individual and the autonomy or are you talking about the goal? Because I would talking about the goal? Because I would talking about the goal? Because I would argue the goal like Jesus's message was argue the goal like Jesus's message was argue the goal like Jesus's message was very clear not to focus on the very clear not to focus on the very clear not to focus on the individual. But how how do you kind of individual. But how how do you kind of individual. But how how do you kind of >> see I'm talking about obviously more >> see I'm talking about obviously more >> see I'm talking about obviously more from a modern perspective. I don't want from a modern perspective. I don't want from a modern perspective. I don't want to we we live in such a diverse arena to we we live in such a diverse arena to we we live in such a diverse arena within our nation where to reject people within our nation where to reject people within our nation where to reject people I think it's inherently I think it's inherently I think it's inherently immoral. And that that's one thing I'm immoral. And that that's one thing I'm immoral. And that that's one thing I'm against that I I have my my Christianity against that I I have my my Christianity against that I I have my my Christianity and then I have my politics and it's I and then I have my politics and it's I and then I have my politics and it's I understand there are Christians not understand there are Christians not understand there are Christians not within our nation and that doesn't mean within our nation and that doesn't mean within our nation and that doesn't mean I do not accept them within the I do not accept them within the I do not accept them within the community. And I believe we are a community. And I believe we are a community. And I believe we are a community. It's called the United community. It's called the United community. It's called the United Kingdom. We also have a community called

Kingdom. We also have a community called Kingdom. We also have a community called the church. So it's like like like a the church. So it's like like like a the church. So it's like like like a Muslim will have the mosque. That's Muslim will have the mosque. That's Muslim will have the mosque. That's their community, but they're also still their community, but they're also still their community, but they're also still part of the community of the United part of the community of the United part of the community of the United Kingdom. And I don't want to see Kingdom. And I don't want to see Kingdom. And I don't want to see kind of laws kind of laws kind of laws be biased in a favor towards a certain be biased in a favor towards a certain be biased in a favor towards a certain church that disillusions church that disillusions church that disillusions a whole community in the United Kingdom. a whole community in the United Kingdom. a whole community in the United Kingdom. >> I I do agree with that. But I I would >> I I do agree with that. But I I would >> I I do agree with that. But I I would say to that like if you look at the say to that like if you look at the say to that like if you look at the welfare state for instance that used the welfare state for instance that used the welfare state for instance that used the church and people used to be that and I church and people used to be that and I church and people used to be that and I I think that's a great thing but because I think that's a great thing but because I think that's a great thing but because our kind of communitarian spirit and our kind of communitarian spirit and our kind of communitarian spirit and looking out for the neighbor the brother looking out for the neighbor the brother looking out for the neighbor the brother giving away tithing 10% that's been lost giving away tithing 10% that's been lost giving away tithing 10% that's been lost we then have replace that for the we then have replace that for the we then have replace that for the government. So if you could say if government. So if you could say if government. So if you could say if religion doesn't work in the political religion doesn't work in the political religion doesn't work in the political arena then we have to depend more on arena then we have to depend more on arena then we have to depend more on government and it does become a more government and it does become a more government and it does become a more separate entity which is what we have separate entity which is what we have separate entity which is what we have now and you could argue I mean I would now and you could argue I mean I would now and you could argue I mean I would say capitalism breeds this rampant say capitalism breeds this rampant say capitalism breeds this rampant individualistic view and that's why we individualistic view and that's why we individualistic view and that's why we have low birth rates I think that's why have low birth rates I think that's why have low birth rates I think that's why because it costs so much um and I mean because it costs so much um and I mean because it costs so much um and I mean what what's kind of how would you infer what what's kind of how would you infer what what's kind of how would you infer that?

that? that? >> Well I think you need to blend it. Um I >> Well I think you need to blend it. Um I >> Well I think you need to blend it. Um I I I when we obviously talk about I I when we obviously talk about I I when we obviously talk about politics and religion and philanthropy politics and religion and philanthropy politics and religion and philanthropy itself, it's itself, it's itself, it's philanthropy is done by the state now philanthropy is done by the state now philanthropy is done by the state now obviously with a welfare state and we obviously with a welfare state and we obviously with a welfare state and we need we need to focus on need we need to focus on need we need to focus on combining the two with philanthropy and combining the two with philanthropy and combining the two with philanthropy and the state and the individ well the state and the individ well the state and the individ well philanthropy the state and the philanthropy the state and the philanthropy the state and the individual where the state still does individual where the state still does individual where the state still does help. So when I'm talking about a single help. So when I'm talking about a single help. So when I'm talking about a single mother who has a child, I do believe the mother who has a child, I do believe the mother who has a child, I do believe the state should step in and help like state should step in and help like state should step in and help like funding nursery hours etc. because I funding nursery hours etc. because I funding nursery hours etc. because I don't believe the church has the funds don't believe the church has the funds don't believe the church has the funds to do that. But we pay tax into a system to do that. But we pay tax into a system to do that. But we pay tax into a system where we can do that because why? where we can do that because why? where we can do that because why? Because we're culturally Christian Because we're culturally Christian Because we're culturally Christian because our society is based upon that. because our society is based upon that. because our society is based upon that. >> But that doesn't mean we should favor >> But that doesn't mean we should favor >> But that doesn't mean we should favor that church. But but you could say to that church. But but you could say to that church. But but you could say to help that single mother, what is the help that single mother, what is the help that single mother, what is the basis of the morality if not basis of the morality if not basis of the morality if not Christianity? I mean people would say I Christianity? I mean people would say I Christianity? I mean people would say I guess on an evolutionary level or even guess on an evolutionary level or even guess on an evolutionary level or even on an economic level people could people on an economic level people could people on an economic level people could people could be a bit scummy say well that you could be a bit scummy say well that you could be a bit scummy say well that you know the sun's going to get into drugs know the sun's going to get into drugs know the sun's going to get into drugs then we're going to have to fund social then we're going to have to fund social then we're going to have to fund social care then we're going to have to invest care then we're going to have to invest care then we're going to have to invest more in education. You could I guess go more in education. You could I guess go more in education. You could I guess go through that lens, but through that lens, but through that lens, but like surely Christianity does play some like surely Christianity does play some like surely Christianity does play some realm and like can you really and Tom realm and like can you really and Tom realm and like can you really and Tom Holland speaks a lot as a historian like Holland speaks a lot as a historian like Holland speaks a lot as a historian like can you really take the Christianity out can you really take the Christianity out can you really take the Christianity out of our society when so much of the of our society when so much of the of our society when so much of the bedrock of of who we are like even like

bedrock of of who we are like even like bedrock of of who we are like even like innocent till proven guilty? I mean the innocent till proven guilty? I mean the innocent till proven guilty? I mean the the amount of roots that has in the the amount of roots that has in the the amount of roots that has in the Bible is unbelievable. Like can you Bible is unbelievable. Like can you Bible is unbelievable. Like can you really take it out? Would you? Uh I really take it out? Would you? Uh I really take it out? Would you? Uh I think it's all down to what actually think it's all down to what actually think it's all down to what actually happens in the state itself. We I mean happens in the state itself. We I mean happens in the state itself. We I mean we've seen in history when a certain we've seen in history when a certain we've seen in history when a certain empire has done extreme atrocities empire has done extreme atrocities empire has done extreme atrocities to their state to people and 20 years to their state to people and 20 years to their state to people and 20 years before that they were very Christian. before that they were very Christian. before that they were very Christian. Everyone was attending church. Everyone was attending church. Everyone was attending church. >> So it's like there can be a quick >> So it's like there can be a quick >> So it's like there can be a quick switch. switch. switch. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And it's very it can be very dangerous >> And it's very it can be very dangerous >> And it's very it can be very dangerous if it does happen. So potentially there if it does happen. So potentially there if it does happen. So potentially there can be a quick vacuum of uh culturally can be a quick vacuum of uh culturally can be a quick vacuum of uh culturally Christian. Christian. Christian. >> Now you are right. You are right because >> Now you are right. You are right because >> Now you are right. You are right because if if you look at slavery in America, if if you look at slavery in America, if if you look at slavery in America, you had you had you had >> I mean and people often talk about the >> I mean and people often talk about the >> I mean and people often talk about the Old Testament and there's a lot of Old Testament and there's a lot of Old Testament and there's a lot of horrific verse in there, but you had horrific verse in there, but you had horrific verse in there, but you had slave owners using some of the letters slave owners using some of the letters slave owners using some of the letters of Paul about what he says about slavery of Paul about what he says about slavery of Paul about what he says about slavery to endorse it. You you are right because to endorse it. You you are right because to endorse it. You you are right because humans are so fallible humans are so fallible humans are so fallible >> that we can't depend simply on >> that we can't depend simply on >> that we can't depend simply on interpretation to structure because this interpretation to structure because this interpretation to structure because this you know a Catholic and a Mormon or in you know a Catholic and a Mormon or in you know a Catholic and a Mormon or in different universes on different universes on different universes on >> she are right um and kind of shifting >> she are right um and kind of shifting >> she are right um and kind of shifting back to your own doubts about your back to your own doubts about your back to your own doubts about your faith. How what are because we we've faith. How what are because we we've faith. How what are because we we've kind of got carried away there but but kind of got carried away there but but kind of got carried away there but but what are you know what's the thing that what are you know what's the thing that what are you know what's the thing that keeps you up at night? What's the thing keeps you up at night? What's the thing keeps you up at night? What's the thing that makes you think maybe Jesus wasn't that makes you think maybe Jesus wasn't that makes you think maybe Jesus wasn't who he says he is? Maybe God doesn't who he says he is? Maybe God doesn't who he says he is? Maybe God doesn't exist. Maybe there is no hope at the end exist. Maybe there is no hope at the end exist. Maybe there is no hope at the end of the tunnel. There is no light and the

of the tunnel. There is no light and the of the tunnel. There is no light and the dark. What What is that? >> The thing that makes me doubt whether >> The thing that makes me doubt whether Jesus existed, well, we know the human Jesus existed, well, we know the human Jesus existed, well, we know the human himself existed, but whether he was God himself existed, but whether he was God himself existed, but whether he was God or not was Oh, it I mean, it's really or not was Oh, it I mean, it's really or not was Oh, it I mean, it's really hard to say. It's hard to say. It's hard to say. It's I I believe it's our lack of I I believe it's our lack of I I believe it's our lack of uh how do you say written texts. I I uh how do you say written texts. I I uh how do you say written texts. I I want to see more written texts. I want want to see more written texts. I want want to see more written texts. I want to see more archaeologists, more to see more archaeologists, more to see more archaeologists, more theologists delve into this and excavate theologists delve into this and excavate theologists delve into this and excavate where we believe there could be gospel where we believe there could be gospel where we believe there could be gospel texts and where we believe certain texts and where we believe certain texts and where we believe certain villages, certain towns, potential villages, certain towns, potential villages, certain towns, potential places in the ministry were. I want us places in the ministry were. I want us places in the ministry were. I want us to completely an archaeological dig. I to completely an archaeological dig. I to completely an archaeological dig. I want us to find more because as I said, want us to find more because as I said, want us to find more because as I said, I'm a man who pursues knowledge. I want I'm a man who pursues knowledge. I want I'm a man who pursues knowledge. I want to find out more about a subject. And so to find out more about a subject. And so to find out more about a subject. And so what keeps me up at night um and what keeps me up at night um and what keeps me up at night um and doubting is that sometimes I feel we doubting is that sometimes I feel we doubting is that sometimes I feel we don't know enough. And I believe we we don't know enough. And I believe we we don't know enough. And I believe we we need to know more. We need to strive to need to know more. We need to strive to need to know more. We need to strive to know more.

know more. know more. >> And at what point do you think that >> And at what point do you think that >> And at what point do you think that would be sufficient? because obviously would be sufficient? because obviously would be sufficient? because obviously we've we've done a lot of kind of we've we've done a lot of kind of we've we've done a lot of kind of archaeology discoveries and like um the archaeology discoveries and like um the archaeology discoveries and like um the Gospel of Luke, you know, his many Gospel of Luke, you know, his many Gospel of Luke, you know, his many scholars don't think Luke actually wrote scholars don't think Luke actually wrote scholars don't think Luke actually wrote that, but some do. [clears throat] that, but some do. [clears throat] that, but some do. [clears throat] >> I mean, who knows? I I I don't know. I >> I mean, who knows? I I I don't know. I >> I mean, who knows? I I I don't know. I haven't looked into it enough, but one haven't looked into it enough, but one haven't looked into it enough, but one thing's for certain, the person who thing's for certain, the person who thing's for certain, the person who wrote Luke was an incredible historian wrote Luke was an incredible historian wrote Luke was an incredible historian because the amount of discoveries that because the amount of discoveries that because the amount of discoveries that have been made that have corresponded have been made that have corresponded have been made that have corresponded with what he said in there is with what he said in there is with what he said in there is incredible. And there were even atheists incredible. And there were even atheists incredible. And there were even atheists who said like a certain place didn't who said like a certain place didn't who said like a certain place didn't exist and then it found out it did exist exist and then it found out it did exist exist and then it found out it did exist or there's there's incredible things or there's there's incredible things or there's there's incredible things there. But I guess what what would be there. But I guess what what would be there. But I guess what what would be enough enough enough >> for you to kind of suffice that doubt or >> for you to kind of suffice that doubt or >> for you to kind of suffice that doubt or would you say I mean a classic one like would you say I mean a classic one like would you say I mean a classic one like obviously to have faith you have to have obviously to have faith you have to have obviously to have faith you have to have doubt or it would just be you know the doubt or it would just be you know the doubt or it would just be you know the sun's bright. How how do you square that sun's bright. How how do you square that sun's bright. How how do you square that kind? kind? kind? >> I think you said it perfectly to have >> I think you said it perfectly to have >> I think you said it perfectly to have faith you will have doubt. faith you will have doubt. faith you will have doubt. Um, it's it's the the unknowing is Um, it's it's the the unknowing is Um, it's it's the the unknowing is sometimes extremely painful to humans, sometimes extremely painful to humans, sometimes extremely painful to humans, but that's what makes being human so but that's what makes being human so but that's what makes being human so great. It's you're pursuing excellence great. It's you're pursuing excellence great. It's you're pursuing excellence all the time. And all the time. And all the time. And when you're constantly evolving when you're constantly evolving when you're constantly evolving from when you're a child to when you're from when you're a child to when you're from when you're a child to when you're a teenager to when you're an adult, you a teenager to when you're an adult, you a teenager to when you're an adult, you should always be striving to be better, should always be striving to be better, should always be striving to be better, to pursue something. Even going into to pursue something. Even going into to pursue something. Even going into your later years, uh raising a family, your later years, uh raising a family, your later years, uh raising a family, rising up the corporate ladder, uh rising up the corporate ladder, uh rising up the corporate ladder, uh pursuing business interests, pursuing business interests, pursuing business interests, um starting a new hobby, you're pursuing

um starting a new hobby, you're pursuing um starting a new hobby, you're pursuing something that you really want to do. something that you really want to do. something that you really want to do. And I believe that's so important where And I believe that's so important where And I believe that's so important where you need to doubt yourself in order to you need to doubt yourself in order to you need to doubt yourself in order to strive for excellence. You need to strive for excellence. You need to strive for excellence. You need to think, "Oh, maybe I might not be able to think, "Oh, maybe I might not be able to think, "Oh, maybe I might not be able to do this, do this, do this, >> but I'm still going to try and smash >> but I'm still going to try and smash >> but I'm still going to try and smash it." it." it." >> And I believe that's so important. I >> And I believe that's so important. I >> And I believe that's so important. I believe that's the same with your believe that's the same with your believe that's the same with your religious beliefs is, yeah, I may doubt religious beliefs is, yeah, I may doubt religious beliefs is, yeah, I may doubt it, but I want to find out more about it, but I want to find out more about it, but I want to find out more about what happened in this period of time. what happened in this period of time. what happened in this period of time. And so, I'm going to read more. I'm And so, I'm going to read more. I'm And so, I'm going to read more. I'm going to go to church more. I'm going to going to go to church more. I'm going to going to go to church more. I'm going to discuss it with my friends more. discuss it with my friends more. discuss it with my friends more. And I believe that's the beauty of it. And I believe that's the beauty of it. And I believe that's the beauty of it. >> Yeah, it's it's a very good point. And >> Yeah, it's it's a very good point. And >> Yeah, it's it's a very good point. And not to bring Dear Bonhoffer back into not to bring Dear Bonhoffer back into not to bring Dear Bonhoffer back into it, but but he I mean he speaks about it, but but he I mean he speaks about it, but but he I mean he speaks about how we, you know, so many of us we how we, you know, so many of us we how we, you know, so many of us we expect to have such incredible faith, expect to have such incredible faith, expect to have such incredible faith, yet we aren't obedient. You know, we we yet we aren't obedient. You know, we we yet we aren't obedient. You know, we we lie. We, you know, we we're lustful. lie. We, you know, we we're lustful. lie. We, you know, we we're lustful. We're um gluttonous. Yet we expect We're um gluttonous. Yet we expect We're um gluttonous. Yet we expect somehow to have belief. Like the amount somehow to have belief. Like the amount somehow to have belief. Like the amount of people I speak to who they don't even of people I speak to who they don't even of people I speak to who they don't even read the Bible, yet they're expecting to read the Bible, yet they're expecting to read the Bible, yet they're expecting to have faith. And it's like, you don't have faith. And it's like, you don't have faith. And it's like, you don't even know who Jesus is. You don't even even know who Jesus is. You don't even even know who Jesus is. You don't even know who the historical Jesus of know who the historical Jesus of know who the historical Jesus of Nazareth, what he said, what he did. How Nazareth, what he said, what he did. How Nazareth, what he said, what he did. How the heck you meant to have faith? And the heck you meant to have faith? And the heck you meant to have faith? And and you know, if you look throughout and you know, if you look throughout and you know, if you look throughout history, you look at the guy who history, you look at the guy who history, you look at the guy who translated the Bible, William Tindle translated the Bible, William Tindle translated the Bible, William Tindle Tinddale, and what he went through, Tinddale, and what he went through, Tinddale, and what he went through, burnt at stake, or you look at um you burnt at stake, or you look at um you burnt at stake, or you look at um you you look at so many incredible people you look at so many incredible people you look at so many incredible people throughout history. you know, Thomas throughout history. you know, Thomas throughout history. you know, Thomas Aquinus, a man who devoted his life and Aquinus, a man who devoted his life and Aquinus, a man who devoted his life and at one point had this incredible at one point had this incredible at one point had this incredible revelation or, you know, some of the revelation or, you know, some of the revelation or, you know, some of the most incredible fantastical people in

most incredible fantastical people in most incredible fantastical people in history history history who who gave their lives to to look who who gave their lives to to look who who gave their lives to to look after one another. And there's a great after one another. And there's a great after one another. And there's a great sermon by a guy called Rome Williams sermon by a guy called Rome Williams sermon by a guy called Rome Williams called the go and gets tough who he's called the go and gets tough who he's called the go and gets tough who he's the exhibition of Canterbury and he the exhibition of Canterbury and he the exhibition of Canterbury and he speaks about how the some of the best speaks about how the some of the best speaks about how the some of the best theologians and um some of the kindest theologians and um some of the kindest theologians and um some of the kindest people like Mother Theresa and stuff if people like Mother Theresa and stuff if people like Mother Theresa and stuff if you look at their journals they had you look at their journals they had you look at their journals they had decades where their prayer was was very decades where their prayer was was very decades where their prayer was was very stale where they felt like they didn't stale where they felt like they didn't stale where they felt like they didn't have any connection with God. And I have any connection with God. And I have any connection with God. And I think you're you're so right there. I've think you're you're so right there. I've think you're you're so right there. I've got to admit I've never heard anyone in got to admit I've never heard anyone in got to admit I've never heard anyone in a positive light say climb the corporate a positive light say climb the corporate a positive light say climb the corporate ladder. [laughter] I've never ladder. [laughter] I've never ladder. [laughter] I've never like I've I've never like I've I've never like I've I've never >> but it's the majority of like like I say >> but it's the majority of like like I say >> but it's the majority of like like I say in the modern society that is what in the modern society that is what in the modern society that is what people do. So when I try and you have to people do. So when I try and you have to people do. So when I try and you have to put Christianity sometimes through a put Christianity sometimes through a put Christianity sometimes through a modern lens and you have to look at you modern lens and you have to look at you modern lens and you have to look at you you can't focus on extremely old you can't focus on extremely old you can't focus on extremely old traditions. You do have to evolve with traditions. You do have to evolve with traditions. You do have to evolve with society sometimes and in our society you society sometimes and in our society you society sometimes and in our society you have the corporate world like you said have the corporate world like you said have the corporate world like you said the capitalist world. So you do have to the capitalist world. So you do have to the capitalist world. So you do have to focus through them lenses.

focus through them lenses. focus through them lenses. >> I mean that that's one of the things I >> I mean that that's one of the things I >> I mean that that's one of the things I struggle with the most with struggle with the most with struggle with the most with Christianity. It's how like you know the Christianity. It's how like you know the Christianity. It's how like you know the purity of heart you know do but then you purity of heart you know do but then you purity of heart you know do but then you like you have to pay for a mortgage. If like you have to pay for a mortgage. If like you have to pay for a mortgage. If you want kids you have to put in some gr you want kids you have to put in some gr you want kids you have to put in some gr to get there. So it's to get there. So it's to get there. So it's >> like that's that's the thing I struggle >> like that's that's the thing I struggle >> like that's that's the thing I struggle with so much. And I think it's with so much. And I think it's with so much. And I think it's interesting you didn't say suffering interesting you didn't say suffering interesting you didn't say suffering because a lot of people say if you look because a lot of people say if you look because a lot of people say if you look at the world we got you know every at the world we got you know every at the world we got you know every minute we have babies that don't make it minute we have babies that don't make it minute we have babies that don't make it every like and Sam Harris you this every like and Sam Harris you this every like and Sam Harris you this incredible speech where he says and for incredible speech where he says and for incredible speech where he says and for me this is quite a powerful argument me this is quite a powerful argument me this is quite a powerful argument against God and suffering obviously is against God and suffering obviously is against God and suffering obviously is but he he speaks about how if you like but he he speaks about how if you like but he he speaks about how if you like every day we have like 10,000 people I every day we have like 10,000 people I every day we have like 10,000 people I think he said 10,000 people die in think he said 10,000 people die in think he said 10,000 people die in severe pain around the world right severe pain around the world right severe pain around the world right >> so and he makes the point God even sees >> so and he makes the point God even sees >> so and he makes the point God even sees that happen doesn't do anything can do that happen doesn't do anything can do that happen doesn't do anything can do something chooses not to or something chooses not to or something chooses not to or let's say doesn't exist. And it's it's a let's say doesn't exist. And it's it's a let's say doesn't exist. And it's it's a very compelling argument and kind of how very compelling argument and kind of how very compelling argument and kind of how do you grapple with that because there's do you grapple with that because there's do you grapple with that because there's so many kind of incredibly smart people so many kind of incredibly smart people so many kind of incredibly smart people like Richard Dawkins who is one of the like Richard Dawkins who is one of the like Richard Dawkins who is one of the world's best biologists on the planet.

world's best biologists on the planet. world's best biologists on the planet. How do you kind of grapple with some How do you kind of grapple with some How do you kind of grapple with some incredibly smart people coming up with incredibly smart people coming up with incredibly smart people coming up with amazing arguments against what you amazing arguments against what you amazing arguments against what you believe? believe? believe? >> What you say? Well, I think people can >> What you say? Well, I think people can >> What you say? Well, I think people can claim they know what God really is, but claim they know what God really is, but claim they know what God really is, but in reality it's in reality it's in reality it's we we we're very we we don't really we we we're very we we don't really we we we're very we we don't really know. Um we obviously know about Jesus, know. Um we obviously know about Jesus, know. Um we obviously know about Jesus, but what what is God? What what kind of but what what is God? What what kind of but what what is God? What what kind of entity is God? It's which dimension does entity is God? It's which dimension does entity is God? It's which dimension does God sit in? I think it's way more God sit in? I think it's way more God sit in? I think it's way more complex than to compare God to just your complex than to compare God to just your complex than to compare God to just your ordinary human being. It's I think it's ordinary human being. It's I think it's ordinary human being. It's I think it's way more complex than that. Um the way more complex than that. Um the way more complex than that. Um the universe is something incomprehensible. universe is something incomprehensible. universe is something incomprehensible. So I believe if that's incomprehensible, So I believe if that's incomprehensible, So I believe if that's incomprehensible, I believe God is even more I believe God is even more I believe God is even more incomprehensible. incomprehensible. incomprehensible. >> So I believe to say you truly know it, I >> So I believe to say you truly know it, I >> So I believe to say you truly know it, I think it's I think you're doing um a think it's I think you're doing um a think it's I think you're doing um a disservice to yourself.

disservice to yourself. disservice to yourself. >> Yeah. Interesting. And like if you look >> Yeah. Interesting. And like if you look >> Yeah. Interesting. And like if you look at also some of the scientific like for at also some of the scientific like for at also some of the scientific like for instance the big bang theory that was by instance the big bang theory that was by instance the big bang theory that was by a Catholic priest and it's very a Catholic priest and it's very a Catholic priest and it's very interesting actually a lot of scientific interesting actually a lot of scientific interesting actually a lot of scientific discoveries reinforce like genesis you discoveries reinforce like genesis you discoveries reinforce like genesis you know there are certain things that kind know there are certain things that kind know there are certain things that kind of reinforce faith but also it's how you of reinforce faith but also it's how you of reinforce faith but also it's how you look at it like I was speaking to an look at it like I was speaking to an look at it like I was speaking to an astrophysicist recently who spoke about astrophysicist recently who spoke about astrophysicist recently who spoke about how end times fit up with the world you how end times fit up with the world you how end times fit up with the world you know eventually it is going to come to a know eventually it is going to come to a know eventually it is going to come to a standstill we are [clears throat] going standstill we are [clears throat] going standstill we are [clears throat] going to be gone but that does fit in line to be gone but that does fit in line to be gone but that does fit in line with with with >> well if you look at the theory of >> well if you look at the theory of >> well if you look at the theory of relativity by Albert Einstein you could relativity by Albert Einstein you could relativity by Albert Einstein you could already say it's already happened already say it's already happened already say it's already happened >> can you expand on that >> can you expand on that >> can you expand on that >> well the past the present and the future >> well the past the present and the future >> well the past the present and the future has already happened if you look at has already happened if you look at has already happened if you look at spaceime and the curvature within it not spaceime and the curvature within it not spaceime and the curvature within it not to go into too much detail to go into too much detail to go into too much detail >> please >> please >> please >> but if you look at the the dimensional >> but if you look at the the dimensional >> but if you look at the the dimensional kind of scope they were talking about in kind of scope they were talking about in kind of scope they were talking about in the fear of relativity it's the past is the fear of relativity it's the past is the fear of relativity it's the past is happening Now it already has happened.

happening Now it already has happened. happening Now it already has happened. It's so incomprehensible. It's so smart. It's so incomprehensible. It's so smart. It's so incomprehensible. It's so smart. We know the the universe shrinks and it We know the the universe shrinks and it We know the the universe shrinks and it stretches. stretches. stretches. And if you look, I I suggest anyone And if you look, I I suggest anyone And if you look, I I suggest anyone going into looking into it. I'm not a going into looking into it. I'm not a going into looking into it. I'm not a physicist myself, but it's really physicist myself, but it's really physicist myself, but it's really fascinating even if you just look into fascinating even if you just look into fascinating even if you just look into the cusp of it that the cusp of it that the cusp of it that the the more you look into it, the more the the more you look into it, the more the the more you look into it, the more extremely complicated our universe is extremely complicated our universe is extremely complicated our universe is and and and how how how through spacetime through spacetime through spacetime the from another point in the universe the from another point in the universe the from another point in the universe if they look got a giant telescoped if they look got a giant telescoped if they look got a giant telescoped telescope and looked on Earth, dinosaurs telescope and looked on Earth, dinosaurs telescope and looked on Earth, dinosaurs would still be would still be would still be That's how that's how strange time That's how that's how strange time That's how that's how strange time really is. really is. really is. >> So when I say the end times have already >> So when I say the end times have already >> So when I say the end times have already happened, happened, happened, >> but in our minds, our minds focus on a >> but in our minds, our minds focus on a >> but in our minds, our minds focus on a linear progression, whereas in spaceime, linear progression, whereas in spaceime, linear progression, whereas in spaceime, nothing is truly linear nothing is truly linear nothing is truly linear >> that Yeah, it's it's >> that Yeah, it's it's >> that Yeah, it's it's >> it's mindblowing.

>> it's mindblowing. >> it's mindblowing. >> I mean, literally. >> I mean, literally. >> I mean, literally. >> Yeah. I mean, >> Yeah. I mean, >> Yeah. I mean, >> I would suggest anyone to look into it. >> I would suggest anyone to look into it. >> I would suggest anyone to look into it. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that type of stuff >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that type of stuff >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that type of stuff keeps me up at night. Like it's like try keeps me up at night. Like it's like try keeps me up at night. Like it's like try picture infinity. picture infinity. picture infinity. >> Like we we it's it's like I I think like >> Like we we it's it's like I I think like >> Like we we it's it's like I I think like we we're so caught up in the kind of we we're so caught up in the kind of we we're so caught up in the kind of confirmation of God, but I think it's confirmation of God, but I think it's confirmation of God, but I think it's like a radio frequency. Like we cannot like a radio frequency. Like we cannot like a radio frequency. Like we cannot picture infinity. picture infinity. picture infinity. >> So why can we picture God the person who >> So why can we picture God the person who >> So why can we picture God the person who created everything? It's a fair point. created everything? It's a fair point. created everything? It's a fair point. We like it's weird like it's like when We like it's weird like it's like when We like it's weird like it's like when we look at an ant or something and they we look at an ant or something and they we look at an ant or something and they they don't know what's going on. We're they don't know what's going on. We're they don't know what's going on. We're watching this TV show. We're like I I watching this TV show. We're like I I watching this TV show. We're like I I this is a ridiculous example, but we this is a ridiculous example, but we this is a ridiculous example, but we view that as like we're smarter than view that as like we're smarter than view that as like we're smarter than them, but we we can't picture infinity. them, but we we can't picture infinity. them, but we we can't picture infinity. So, I mean I mean it's quite a basic So, I mean I mean it's quite a basic So, I mean I mean it's quite a basic point and I failed my science GCSE so point and I failed my science GCSE so point and I failed my science GCSE so I'm not even going to go there but um I'm not even going to go there but um I'm not even going to go there but um what's what's kind of like your biggest what's what's kind of like your biggest what's what's kind of like your biggest um struggles you've faced in life which um struggles you've faced in life which um struggles you've faced in life which I mean I know that's a very I mean I know that's a very I mean I know that's a very >> um well I obviously like like many >> um well I obviously like like many >> um well I obviously like like many people uh grew up with single parent people uh grew up with single parent people uh grew up with single parent household uh raised by a brilliant household uh raised by a brilliant household uh raised by a brilliant mother um then stepdad obviously joined mother um then stepdad obviously joined mother um then stepdad obviously joined us a bit later um when I was about eight us a bit later um when I was about eight us a bit later um when I was about eight nine years nine years nine years And then money weren't perfect within And then money weren't perfect within And then money weren't perfect within our family, but we we we made do. And we our family, but we we we made do. And we our family, but we we we made do. And we always made sure we went on camping always made sure we went on camping always made sure we went on camping holidays, went and saw the UK. And I I I holidays, went and saw the UK. And I I I holidays, went and saw the UK. And I I I at the time I probably really disliked at the time I probably really disliked at the time I probably really disliked it cuz I had friends that were going it cuz I had friends that were going it cuz I had friends that were going abroad. But now I look back on it, I abroad. But now I look back on it, I abroad. But now I look back on it, I think it's brilliant. And the less of

think it's brilliant. And the less of think it's brilliant. And the less of the focus on the money itself and more the focus on the money itself and more the focus on the money itself and more of the spending time with family. And I of the spending time with family. And I of the spending time with family. And I think that's really I think what my think that's really I think what my think that's really I think what my parents were doing with that. parents were doing with that. parents were doing with that. And And And I I've lost quite close people to me. Um I I've lost quite close people to me. Um I I've lost quite close people to me. Um my father uh who don't get me wrong I've my father uh who don't get me wrong I've my father uh who don't get me wrong I've I haven't he's not passed away but I I haven't he's not passed away but I I haven't he's not passed away but I feel like I have lost him. Um he feel like I have lost him. Um he feel like I have lost him. Um he struggles with a lot of things himself. struggles with a lot of things himself. struggles with a lot of things himself. Uh we're not close. Um and there has Uh we're not close. Um and there has Uh we're not close. Um and there has been some instances where I've really been some instances where I've really been some instances where I've really struggled with that and yeah throughout struggled with that and yeah throughout struggled with that and yeah throughout life certain stuff has happened life certain stuff has happened life certain stuff has happened and and and yes so I think one of my main struggles yes so I think one of my main struggles yes so I think one of my main struggles is because because I was raised in a is because because I was raised in a is because because I was raised in a family that works very hard. family that works very hard. family that works very hard. They're always pursuing something better They're always pursuing something better They're always pursuing something better like a promotion at work um to go on the like a promotion at work um to go on the like a promotion at work um to go on the next holiday. It it's quite strange next holiday. It it's quite strange next holiday. It it's quite strange that's kind of been instilled into my that's kind of been instilled into my that's kind of been instilled into my mind where I always just want to achieve mind where I always just want to achieve mind where I always just want to achieve something more. I want to grab the next something more. I want to grab the next something more. I want to grab the next branch on the tree. Uh branch on the tree. Uh branch on the tree. Uh the the I want to drive on the next the the I want to drive on the next the the I want to drive on the next road. It's road. It's road. It's I I left school at 16 with barely any I I left school at 16 with barely any I I left school at 16 with barely any grades and probably could spell fudge grades and probably could spell fudge grades and probably could spell fudge with them. And then I got my electrical with them. And then I got my electrical with them. And then I got my electrical apprenticeship apprenticeship apprenticeship and pursued that. did really good and and pursued that. did really good and and pursued that. did really good and then obviously lockdown hit and then we then obviously lockdown hit and then we then obviously lockdown hit and then we were I I was still working through were I I was still working through were I I was still working through lockdown fortunately but lockdown hit lockdown fortunately but lockdown hit lockdown fortunately but lockdown hit and then I got qualified and then I I in

and then I got qualified and then I I in and then I got qualified and then I I in my apprentichip I was I can't wait for my apprentichip I was I can't wait for my apprentichip I was I can't wait for the day I'm qualified I I'm finally the day I'm qualified I I'm finally the day I'm qualified I I'm finally going to achieve what I wanted in life going to achieve what I wanted in life going to achieve what I wanted in life and I got to that qualification and then and I got to that qualification and then and I got to that qualification and then the the week after it I was a bit like the the week after it I was a bit like the the week after it I was a bit like well is this really what like is this well is this really what like is this well is this really what like is this what I want to do surely there's more to what I want to do surely there's more to what I want to do surely there's more to this M this M this M >> and there was I became a supervisor >> and there was I became a supervisor >> and there was I became a supervisor worked my way up trained apprentices worked my way up trained apprentices worked my way up trained apprentices which I thought was brilliant which I thought was brilliant which I thought was brilliant >> and I'd always been interested in >> and I'd always been interested in >> and I'd always been interested in politics and I was like well I thought politics and I was like well I thought politics and I was like well I thought why don't I go study it but I haven't why don't I go study it but I haven't why don't I go study it but I haven't got the university grades so for 6 got the university grades so for 6 got the university grades so for 6 months I studied in my evenings and on months I studied in my evenings and on months I studied in my evenings and on my weekends to get really good grades in my weekends to get really good grades in my weekends to get really good grades in order to get into university. order to get into university. order to get into university. But before I went to university, I But before I went to university, I But before I went to university, I wanted to go travel. I wanted to see the wanted to go travel. I wanted to see the wanted to go travel. I wanted to see the world a bit. And I thought, right, I'm world a bit. And I thought, right, I'm world a bit. And I thought, right, I'm going to take seven months off uh leave going to take seven months off uh leave going to take seven months off uh leave leave the company I was with uh fully leave the company I was with uh fully leave the company I was with uh fully leave the construction industry and go leave the construction industry and go leave the construction industry and go traveling for a while. And I went to traveling for a while. And I went to traveling for a while. And I went to East Africa, Tanzania specifically.

East Africa, Tanzania specifically. East Africa, Tanzania specifically. And I worked for an NGO and I really saw And I worked for an NGO and I really saw And I worked for an NGO and I really saw what poverty was. And but I also saw how what poverty was. And but I also saw how what poverty was. And but I also saw how strong people were within that. How strong people were within that. How strong people were within that. How little they have but how much they little they have but how much they little they have but how much they enjoyed the little things. And I found enjoyed the little things. And I found enjoyed the little things. And I found that brilliant. that brilliant. that brilliant. I saw I saw I saw where I think you you change where I think you you change where I think you you change the human self changes quite a lot when the human self changes quite a lot when the human self changes quite a lot when you see a 4-year-old child asking for you see a 4-year-old child asking for you see a 4-year-old child asking for money on the street money on the street money on the street wearing wearing wearing old awful clothes. And I think that's a old awful clothes. And I think that's a old awful clothes. And I think that's a real big eye opener is real big eye opener is real big eye opener is the school that I did a lot of outreach the school that I did a lot of outreach the school that I did a lot of outreach with that I helped in particular, they with that I helped in particular, they with that I helped in particular, they only had the money to feed half the only had the money to feed half the only had the money to feed half the kids. So half the kids would have to go kids. So half the kids would have to go kids. So half the kids would have to go hungry all day. And that's what kills hungry all day. And that's what kills hungry all day. And that's what kills me. And that's when I when we talk about me. And that's when I when we talk about me. And that's when I when we talk about capitalism, I I think we need to wo capitalism, I I think we need to wo capitalism, I I think we need to wo philanthropy with a bit of capitalism.

philanthropy with a bit of capitalism. philanthropy with a bit of capitalism. We do need to help some people We do need to help some people We do need to help some people >> and the woman. So obviously my >> and the woman. So obviously my >> and the woman. So obviously my experience in the construction industry experience in the construction industry experience in the construction industry um I worked on this house um and it was um I worked on this house um and it was um I worked on this house um and it was a widow and she lost her husband and her a widow and she lost her husband and her a widow and she lost her husband and her two children um in an unfortunate two children um in an unfortunate two children um in an unfortunate accident and her house was knocked down accident and her house was knocked down accident and her house was knocked down basically and we rebuilt the house for basically and we rebuilt the house for basically and we rebuilt the house for her her her and it was just every day I went to this and it was just every day I went to this and it was just every day I went to this one site and she was just sitting there. one site and she was just sitting there. one site and she was just sitting there. It was quite strange. She had this like It was quite strange. She had this like It was quite strange. She had this like pickaxe and what construction companies pickaxe and what construction companies pickaxe and what construction companies did for some reason is they would dump a did for some reason is they would dump a did for some reason is they would dump a bunch of rocks and they would pay bunch of rocks and they would pay bunch of rocks and they would pay someone just to smash them up all day. someone just to smash them up all day. someone just to smash them up all day. And I think for the two months I was And I think for the two months I was And I think for the two months I was working on that house every day she was working on that house every day she was working on that house every day she was laying there just hitting her with a laying there just hitting her with a laying there just hitting her with a pickaxe. pickaxe. pickaxe. And I I met this uh one child there cuz And I I met this uh one child there cuz And I I met this uh one child there cuz they they like you said the importance they they like you said the importance they they like you said the importance of community. They live in communities of community. They live in communities of community. They live in communities quite uh they fence them off have like a quite uh they fence them off have like a quite uh they fence them off have like a gate to the communities and he'll have gate to the communities and he'll have gate to the communities and he'll have like 10 families in really small houses like 10 families in really small houses like 10 families in really small houses and there was this one child that for and there was this one child that for and there was this one child that for some reason just kept on running up to some reason just kept on running up to some reason just kept on running up to me when I was working on his house and I me when I was working on his house and I me when I was working on his house and I got to know his story more and the got to know his story more and the got to know his story more and the father left when he was a baby. Um the father left when he was a baby. Um the father left when he was a baby. Um the child was still about one to two years child was still about one to two years child was still about one to two years old. mother was working I would say two old. mother was working I would say two old. mother was working I would say two jobs jobs jobs >> and >> and >> and I was like why isn't the child in

I was like why isn't the child in I was like why isn't the child in nursery and they were like the mother nursery and they were like the mother nursery and they were like the mother can't afford nursery and I was like what can't afford nursery and I was like what can't afford nursery and I was like what about school and they were like well we about school and they were like well we about school and they were like well we hope to put him in private school etc hope to put him in private school etc hope to put him in private school etc and it's just it is it's a big eye and it's just it is it's a big eye and it's just it is it's a big eye opener and I think that changed me opener and I think that changed me opener and I think that changed me massively as a human being on how I see massively as a human being on how I see massively as a human being on how I see certain stuff I think you really need to certain stuff I think you really need to certain stuff I think you really need to go to certain countries go to certain countries go to certain countries I think if you talk about politics and I think if you talk about politics and I think if you talk about politics and you talk about poverty, I think it's you talk about poverty, I think it's you talk about poverty, I think it's really important to see it firsthand really important to see it firsthand really important to see it firsthand >> and go to some of these places where >> and go to some of these places where >> and go to some of these places where it's still very common where they hit it's still very common where they hit it's still very common where they hit children and it's generally awful. It's children and it's generally awful. It's children and it's generally awful. It's I've seen I had two ch two twins join uh I've seen I had two ch two twins join uh I've seen I had two ch two twins join uh a school that I was helping out and it a school that I was helping out and it a school that I was helping out and it was a week after their mother and father was a week after their mother and father was a week after their mother and father died in a car crash died in a car crash died in a car crash >> and they were sent to live with their >> and they were sent to live with their >> and they were sent to live with their grandparents in Arouchia. They were from grandparents in Arouchia. They were from grandparents in Arouchia. They were from the Kilimanjara region and the Kilimanjara region and the Kilimanjara region and yeah, so it was it was it was some twins yeah, so it was it was it was some twins yeah, so it was it was it was some twins that was sent there and their story was that was sent there and their story was that was sent there and their story was so sad but it was it was nice to see as so sad but it was it was nice to see as so sad but it was it was nice to see as progression came along in the weeks I progression came along in the weeks I progression came along in the weeks I would sometimes visit the school and you would sometimes visit the school and you would sometimes visit the school and you just see him get a little bit happier just see him get a little bit happier just see him get a little bit happier >> and I think that is it's just to >> and I think that is it's just to >> and I think that is it's just to sometimes just keep going just keep sometimes just keep going just keep sometimes just keep going just keep going in life it's so important going in life it's so important going in life it's so important important to to stay true to the mission important to to stay true to the mission important to to stay true to the mission and yeah, like I say, yeah, keep

and yeah, like I say, yeah, keep and yeah, like I say, yeah, keep focusing on what you truly want to get focusing on what you truly want to get focusing on what you truly want to get to. And I think you will have people to. And I think you will have people to. And I think you will have people that tell you you can't do it, you're that tell you you can't do it, you're that tell you you can't do it, you're not smart enough, you're not good enough not smart enough, you're not good enough not smart enough, you're not good enough for certain things. But like I said, for certain things. But like I said, for certain things. But like I said, it's big focus on the individual. What it's big focus on the individual. What it's big focus on the individual. What do you truly want? And if you truly want do you truly want? And if you truly want do you truly want? And if you truly want something, strive to get it. And there something, strive to get it. And there something, strive to get it. And there will be people there for you eventually. will be people there for you eventually. will be people there for you eventually. >> Beautiful, mate. Absolutely beautiful. >> Beautiful, mate. Absolutely beautiful. >> Beautiful, mate. Absolutely beautiful. And can I ask like what drew you to And can I ask like what drew you to And can I ask like what drew you to that? Cuz like like from sound like that? Cuz like like from sound like that? Cuz like like from sound like obviously you came from like a pretty obviously you came from like a pretty obviously you came from like a pretty rough upbringing and like you didn't rough upbringing and like you didn't rough upbringing and like you didn't have it easy at all. have it easy at all. have it easy at all. >> No. >> No. >> No. >> So >> So >> So >> well my mother made it as easy as she >> well my mother made it as easy as she >> well my mother made it as easy as she could. could. could. >> Yeah. Which is like I mean m she must be >> Yeah. Which is like I mean m she must be >> Yeah. Which is like I mean m she must be an incredible woman. And what kind of an incredible woman. And what kind of an incredible woman. And what kind of drove you cuz there's a lot of people I drove you cuz there's a lot of people I drove you cuz there's a lot of people I think you know like I mean not to give a think you know like I mean not to give a think you know like I mean not to give a kind of a ridiculous example but like a kind of a ridiculous example but like a kind of a ridiculous example but like a rapper for instance there's certain rapper for instance there's certain rapper for instance there's certain people who come from certain background people who come from certain background people who come from certain background and then they just want to like acquire and then they just want to like acquire and then they just want to like acquire and gain like what was that hunger in and gain like what was that hunger in and gain like what was that hunger in you that wanted something else because I you that wanted something else because I you that wanted something else because I it's very interesting like you've come it's very interesting like you've come it's very interesting like you've come from this background but you you have from this background but you you have from this background but you you have this hunger to help the forgotten help this hunger to help the forgotten help this hunger to help the forgotten help people who need it like why why is that people who need it like why why is that people who need it like why why is that >> like is it because you you I mean like >> like is it because you you I mean like >> like is it because you you I mean like you as when Peter spoke to Jesus like you as when Peter spoke to Jesus like you as when Peter spoke to Jesus like when I was hungry he didn't feed when I when I was hungry he didn't feed when I when I was hungry he didn't feed when I was first he didn't you know give me was first he didn't you know give me was first he didn't you know give me shelter when I was in prison he didn't shelter when I was in prison he didn't shelter when I was in prison he didn't visit me and what he was saying was I visit me and what he was saying was I visit me and what he was saying was I was in everything and is that kind of was in everything and is that kind of was in everything and is that kind of your lens for the world almost your lens for the world almost your lens for the world almost >> well the experience I've had throughout >> well the experience I've had throughout >> well the experience I've had throughout my young life and going into adulthood my young life and going into adulthood my young life and going into adulthood I've dealt with the police I've dealt I've dealt with the police I've dealt I've dealt with the police I've dealt with social services

with social services with social services I know people who have used food banks I know people who have used food banks I know people who have used food banks I've met children where their parents I've met children where their parents I've met children where their parents can't afford them to to send them to can't afford them to to send them to can't afford them to to send them to nursery. Um, I've seen it firsthand and nursery. Um, I've seen it firsthand and nursery. Um, I've seen it firsthand and when you see it firsthand, it's you want when you see it firsthand, it's you want when you see it firsthand, it's you want to help. And I say to anyone that wants to help. And I say to anyone that wants to help. And I say to anyone that wants to strive to do to help people, don't do to strive to do to help people, don't do to strive to do to help people, don't do a halfass job. Go for it and smash it. I a halfass job. Go for it and smash it. I a halfass job. Go for it and smash it. I said, well, anyone, if you if you want said, well, anyone, if you if you want said, well, anyone, if you if you want to be a basketball player, don't do a to be a basketball player, don't do a to be a basketball player, don't do a halfass job. If you want to be an actor, halfass job. If you want to be an actor, halfass job. If you want to be an actor, the same rule applies. If you just want the same rule applies. If you just want the same rule applies. If you just want to be an engineer, go for it and smash to be an engineer, go for it and smash to be an engineer, go for it and smash it. Don't Don't flip-flop around it. it. Don't Don't flip-flop around it. it. Don't Don't flip-flop around it. Don't be worried about what people are Don't be worried about what people are Don't be worried about what people are going to think. Just do it. Cuz the only going to think. Just do it. Cuz the only going to think. Just do it. Cuz the only person that's going to usually make person that's going to usually make person that's going to usually make yourself better is yourself because you yourself better is yourself because you yourself better is yourself because you need to focus on yourself at times. But need to focus on yourself at times. But need to focus on yourself at times. But also once you get to that point, don't also once you get to that point, don't also once you get to that point, don't forget the people where you started that forget the people where you started that forget the people where you started that mission from what you what you believe mission from what you what you believe mission from what you what you believe in truly. And that is usually helping in truly. And that is usually helping in truly. And that is usually helping others. others. others. >> Amen. BR fantastic message and I I think >> Amen. BR fantastic message and I I think >> Amen. BR fantastic message and I I think that one of the saddest things to watch that one of the saddest things to watch that one of the saddest things to watch is is when someone can't help themsel is is when someone can't help themsel is is when someone can't help themsel and you know you can't help them because and you know you can't help them because and you know you can't help them because they need to help themselves.

they need to help themselves. they need to help themselves. >> Addiction. >> Addiction. >> Addiction. >> Yeah, it's devastating. >> Yeah, it's devastating. >> Yeah, it's devastating. >> It's ri I mean my father he struggles >> It's ri I mean my father he struggles >> It's ri I mean my father he struggles with addiction and it's generally one of with addiction and it's generally one of with addiction and it's generally one of the worst things I've seen develop and the worst things I've seen develop and the worst things I've seen develop and it's it's it's I I didn't realize it till I was late in I I didn't realize it till I was late in I I didn't realize it till I was late in my teenage years until uh early my teenage years until uh early my teenage years until uh early adulthood. And it's it's a progression adulthood. And it's it's a progression adulthood. And it's it's a progression within it that it rips people apart and within it that it rips people apart and within it that it rips people apart and it rips families apart and it's horrible it rips families apart and it's horrible it rips families apart and it's horrible to watch. to watch. to watch. But my brother who grew up with my But my brother who grew up with my But my brother who grew up with my father um he experienced it a lot worse father um he experienced it a lot worse father um he experienced it a lot worse than I did. Luckily I only visited my than I did. Luckily I only visited my than I did. Luckily I only visited my father on occasions father on occasions father on occasions and some of the stories I've been told and some of the stories I've been told and some of the stories I've been told are awful. And my brother was treated are awful. And my brother was treated are awful. And my brother was treated and beaten really badly. And he got out and beaten really badly. And he got out and beaten really badly. And he got out the house. He found his own place. He the house. He found his own place. He the house. He found his own place. He found a job. And now he smashed it. He found a job. And now he smashed it. He found a job. And now he smashed it. He works six days a week. And he's doing works six days a week. And he's doing works six days a week. And he's doing really good for himself. And that's why really good for himself. And that's why really good for himself. And that's why I say to anyone, don't feel like you're I say to anyone, don't feel like you're I say to anyone, don't feel like you're trapped. I even if you haven't been in trapped. I even if you haven't been in trapped. I even if you haven't been in that circumstance, it's that circumstance, it's that circumstance, it's if you're in a job and you feel trapped, if you're in a job and you feel trapped, if you're in a job and you feel trapped, >> you're you're not really trapped. You >> you're you're not really trapped. You >> you're you're not really trapped. You can make that jump. It's just going to can make that jump. It's just going to can make that jump. It's just going to be hard for a while.

be hard for a while. be hard for a while. >> But that is >> But that is >> But that is the core tenant of Christianity is it's the core tenant of Christianity is it's the core tenant of Christianity is it's being lost in the wilderness. being lost in the wilderness. being lost in the wilderness. >> Yeah. There's hope. There is. >> Yeah. There's hope. There is. >> Yeah. There's hope. There is. >> Yeah. The the you're striving to be >> Yeah. The the you're striving to be >> Yeah. The the you're striving to be better. But while you're in that better. But while you're in that better. But while you're in that striving period, you can be in the striving period, you can be in the striving period, you can be in the wilderness and it's perfectly fine. wilderness and it's perfectly fine. wilderness and it's perfectly fine. Jesus was baptized in the wilderness. Jesus was baptized in the wilderness. Jesus was baptized in the wilderness. >> Come on. Bringing it back. >> Come on. Bringing it back. >> Come on. Bringing it back. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yeah. By John the Baptist. Yeah. No, >> Yeah. By John the Baptist. Yeah. No, >> Yeah. By John the Baptist. Yeah. No, >> the the Jordan River. If anyone goes to >> the the Jordan River. If anyone goes to >> the the Jordan River. If anyone goes to it, you will realize it is in the middle it, you will realize it is in the middle it, you will realize it is in the middle of nowhere. And the wilderness is nature of nowhere. And the wilderness is nature of nowhere. And the wilderness is nature itself. And the Jordan River, the the itself. And the Jordan River, the the itself. And the Jordan River, the the beautiful pit uh bit where he was beautiful pit uh bit where he was beautiful pit uh bit where he was baptized, you've got four pillars. And baptized, you've got four pillars. And baptized, you've got four pillars. And when the river runs in, and I think it's when the river runs in, and I think it's when the river runs in, and I think it's once a year, once a year, once a year, >> it forms a cross. >> it forms a cross. >> it forms a cross. >> No. >> No. >> No. >> And the steps walk down to it. >> And the steps walk down to it. >> And the steps walk down to it. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> And they baptize people there >> And they baptize people there >> And they baptize people there occasionally. And that's a specific occasionally. And that's a specific occasionally. And that's a specific place where they believe Jesus was place where they believe Jesus was place where they believe Jesus was baptized. And it's it's it's truly in baptized. And it's it's it's truly in baptized. And it's it's it's truly in the wilderness. And a tour guide will the wilderness. And a tour guide will the wilderness. And a tour guide will tell you that himself tell you that himself tell you that himself >> because you drive to it and you're like, >> because you drive to it and you're like, >> because you drive to it and you're like, "Well, hang on. There's no towns or no "Well, hang on. There's no towns or no "Well, hang on. There's no towns or no cities near this place."

cities near this place." cities near this place." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So why here? >> So why here? >> So why here? What brought Jesus there? What brought Jesus there? What brought Jesus there? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And was it John the Baptist? I believe >> And was it John the Baptist? I believe >> And was it John the Baptist? I believe it was. it was. it was. >> Wow. Damn. And >> Wow. Damn. And >> Wow. Damn. And >> cuz it's so important to I believe every >> cuz it's so important to I believe every >> cuz it's so important to I believe every person needs to be lost in the person needs to be lost in the person needs to be lost in the wilderness at some point in their life. wilderness at some point in their life. wilderness at some point in their life. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> In order to truly find themselves. And >> In order to truly find themselves. And >> In order to truly find themselves. And if you get lost in the wilderness five if you get lost in the wilderness five if you get lost in the wilderness five times in your life, that's fine. But times in your life, that's fine. But times in your life, that's fine. But always have hope. always have hope. always have hope. >> Amen. The famous quote, God whispers in >> Amen. The famous quote, God whispers in >> Amen. The famous quote, God whispers in our pleasures, shouts in our pains to our pleasures, shouts in our pains to our pleasures, shouts in our pains to rouse a deaf world. And also just rouse a deaf world. And also just rouse a deaf world. And also just another quote about life in general and another quote about life in general and another quote about life in general and stuff is, you know, mankind is the long stuff is, you know, mankind is the long stuff is, you know, mankind is the long terrible journey of us trying to find terrible journey of us trying to find terrible journey of us trying to find anything other than God to make us anything other than God to make us anything other than God to make us happy. And the final question, ladies happy. And the final question, ladies happy. And the final question, ladies and gentlemen, and gentlemen, and gentlemen, >> if you met the man, the myth, the well, >> if you met the man, the myth, the well, >> if you met the man, the myth, the well, not the myth, the the the top G, not to not the myth, the the the top G, not to not the myth, the the the top G, not to use the worst. use the worst. use the worst. >> I could not be >> I could not be >> I could not be >> You look like Andrew Tate. >> You look like Andrew Tate. >> You look like Andrew Tate. >> I could not be degrading Jesus to that >> I could not be degrading Jesus to that >> I could not be degrading Jesus to that Um, but um, if you met Jesus, Alex Um, but um, if you met Jesus, Alex Um, but um, if you met Jesus, Alex Yates, what what's the first thing you'd Yates, what what's the first thing you'd Yates, what what's the first thing you'd say to him?

say to him? say to him? >> God, you are putting an absolute trumper >> God, you are putting an absolute trumper >> God, you are putting an absolute trumper on onto me. hell. Sorry. on onto me. hell. Sorry. on onto me. hell. Sorry. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> Yeah. Um, >> Yeah. Um, >> Yeah. Um, >> cheers, M. >> cheers, M. >> cheers, M. >> Yeah. Cheers, bro. [laughter] >> Yeah. I think a lot of people would say >> Yeah. I think a lot of people would say thank you. But I think in that moment of thank you. But I think in that moment of thank you. But I think in that moment of time, we don't know what's going to time, we don't know what's going to time, we don't know what's going to happen. We don't know what the happen. We don't know what the happen. We don't know what the experience is going to be like. So, it's experience is going to be like. So, it's experience is going to be like. So, it's it's really important to just embrace it it's really important to just embrace it it's really important to just embrace it at the time and not not to look too much at the time and not not to look too much at the time and not not to look too much into it, but when you do get to that into it, but when you do get to that into it, but when you do get to that point, embrace it. Don't be scared for point, embrace it. Don't be scared for point, embrace it. Don't be scared for it. Live for that moment, but also live it. Live for that moment, but also live it. Live for that moment, but also live in the present. in the present. in the present. >> If you had anything to say, what would >> If you had anything to say, what would >> If you had anything to say, what would you say? you say? you say? >> Well, I'd have I would have a lot of >> Well, I'd have I would have a lot of >> Well, I'd have I would have a lot of things to say. I I would ask lots of things to say. I I would ask lots of things to say. I I would ask lots of questions. questions. questions. My my pursuit of knowing, I would want My my pursuit of knowing, I would want My my pursuit of knowing, I would want to ask everything. I would want to know to ask everything. I would want to know to ask everything. I would want to know what happened in that period of uh him what happened in that period of uh him what happened in that period of uh him being crucified being crucified being crucified um to then speaking to the disciples. I um to then speaking to the disciples. I um to then speaking to the disciples. I want to know what in that period want to know what in that period want to know what in that period >> I want to know why he done certain >> I want to know why he done certain >> I want to know why he done certain things. I would want to know more about things. I would want to know more about things. I would want to know more about humans themselves. What what why why us?

humans themselves. What what why why us? humans themselves. What what why why us? What what what's What what what's What what what's why is it so special? What why is it so special? What why is it so special? What why that period of time? I I think I I why that period of time? I I think I I why that period of time? I I think I I would more just wanna I want to create would more just wanna I want to create would more just wanna I want to create my own encyclopedia within my head with my own encyclopedia within my head with my own encyclopedia within my head with all the questions I would want to ask. all the questions I would want to ask. all the questions I would want to ask. >> Yeah. I mean, God, imagine that. You >> Yeah. I mean, God, imagine that. You >> Yeah. I mean, God, imagine that. You can't even like it just be the best. can't even like it just be the best. can't even like it just be the best. >> Yeah. It's very incomprehensible. >> Yeah. It's very incomprehensible. >> Yeah. It's very incomprehensible. >> It is incompet. >> It is incompet. >> It is incompet. >> But do not fear that moment. Live for >> But do not fear that moment. Live for >> But do not fear that moment. Live for it. it. it. >> And you never know. We might be one of >> And you never know. We might be one of >> And you never know. We might be one of the people or you might be one of the the people or you might be one of the the people or you might be one of the people go, you know, God speaks to you people go, you know, God speaks to you people go, you know, God speaks to you in a certain moment and Jesus comes you. in a certain moment and Jesus comes you. in a certain moment and Jesus comes you. I'll give you the book I'm reading on I'll give you the book I'm reading on I'll give you the book I'm reading on Jesus Christ because it's like a it's a Jesus Christ because it's like a it's a Jesus Christ because it's like a it's a scientific study on people appearing. scientific study on people appearing. scientific study on people appearing. >> Um do >> Um do >> Um do >> Dr. Jeffrey Long, have you heard of him? >> Dr. Jeffrey Long, have you heard of him? >> Dr. Jeffrey Long, have you heard of him? >> No. >> No. >> No. >> Oh, he so he's a near-death experience >> Oh, he so he's a near-death experience >> Oh, he so he's a near-death experience researcher. researcher. researcher. >> Love that. um he is Christian himself >> Love that. um he is Christian himself >> Love that. um he is Christian himself but what he does he uses uh qualitative but what he does he uses uh qualitative but what he does he uses uh qualitative data data data um so personal accounts of when um so personal accounts of when um so personal accounts of when someone's heart stops uh their brain someone's heart stops uh their brain someone's heart stops uh their brain stops or when their stops or when their stops or when their someone is revived someone is revived someone is revived >> and basically what he does he try and >> and basically what he does he try and >> and basically what he does he try and gets their personal account of what they gets their personal account of what they gets their personal account of what they experienced experienced experienced and the data is and the data is and the data is generally generally generally It's [snorts] It's [snorts] It's [snorts] very interesting. It's how you've got very interesting. It's how you've got very interesting. It's how you've got people from different continents, people from different continents, people from different continents, different beliefs, and they're all different beliefs, and they're all different beliefs, and they're all similar accounts similar accounts similar accounts >> to what happens in the near-death >> to what happens in the near-death >> to what happens in the near-death experience. And they even go into experience. And they even go into experience. And they even go into children and they analyze children's uh

children and they analyze children's uh children and they analyze children's uh accounts and even young enough from accounts and even young enough from accounts and even young enough from where they where they can't be nurtured where they where they can't be nurtured where they where they can't be nurtured to be very biased towards Christianity to be very biased towards Christianity to be very biased towards Christianity with a moment like that. Right. with a moment like that. Right. with a moment like that. Right. >> And the the Chris children's themselves >> And the the Chris children's themselves >> And the the Chris children's themselves are very similar and it's it's very are very similar and it's it's very are very similar and it's it's very interesting. I'll say that. interesting. I'll say that. interesting. I'll say that. >> I got to get him on the show. That's >> I got to get him on the show. That's >> I got to get him on the show. That's >> Dr. Jeffrey Long. I recommend it's got I >> Dr. Jeffrey Long. I recommend it's got I >> Dr. Jeffrey Long. I recommend it's got I think it's called Near-Death Experience, think it's called Near-Death Experience, think it's called Near-Death Experience, right? right? right? >> Um brilliant book >> Um brilliant book >> Um brilliant book >> and uh >> and uh >> and uh >> yeah, I'd recommend it to anyone. But >> yeah, I'd recommend it to anyone. But >> yeah, I'd recommend it to anyone. But that's what a big thing for me. I like that's what a big thing for me. I like that's what a big thing for me. I like looking into the science of things. looking into the science of things. looking into the science of things. >> Yeah. and looking into the quantitative >> Yeah. and looking into the quantitative >> Yeah. and looking into the quantitative data and the qualitative data and data and the qualitative data and data and the qualitative data and combining the two to understand more combining the two to understand more combining the two to understand more about it. That's why I find it about it. That's why I find it about it. That's why I find it interesting where archaeological digs uh interesting where archaeological digs uh interesting where archaeological digs uh theological understanding of the text theological understanding of the text theological understanding of the text also psychologists also psychologists also psychologists >> when they try and look at the meaning of >> when they try and look at the meaning of >> when they try and look at the meaning of the words and try and analyze them. I the words and try and analyze them. I the words and try and analyze them. I think that's really good. think that's really good. think that's really good. >> Yeah. And historians and Yeah. It's >> Yeah. And historians and Yeah. It's >> Yeah. And historians and Yeah. It's absolutely exhilarating. I love it. I I absolutely exhilarating. I love it. I I absolutely exhilarating. I love it. I I just it gets me going. Um, but thank you just it gets me going. Um, but thank you just it gets me going. Um, but thank you so much for coming on. We'll definitely so much for coming on. We'll definitely so much for coming on. We'll definitely get you on again. Thank you for having get you on again. Thank you for having get you on again. Thank you for having cracking first episode. Alex Yates, cracking first episode. Alex Yates, cracking first episode. Alex Yates, ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, >> thank you. [music]