Scripting Sales with John Ndege

we we are live welcome to today's episode of are live welcome to today's episode of are live welcome to today's episode of microconf on air microconf on air microconf on air i'm your host rob wallen it's pleasure i'm your host rob wallen it's pleasure i'm your host rob wallen it's pleasure to be here again with this week i really to be here again with this week i really to be here again with this week i really dug the uh that dug the uh that dug the uh that updated visuals producer xander brought updated visuals producer xander brought updated visuals producer xander brought in during that intro i hadn't seen those in during that intro i hadn't seen those in during that intro i hadn't seen those so every other wednesday at 1 p.m so every other wednesday at 1 p.m so every other wednesday at 1 p.m eastern 10 a.m pacific we live stream eastern 10 a.m pacific we live stream eastern 10 a.m pacific we live stream for 30 minutes for 30 minutes for 30 minutes and we cover topics related to building and we cover topics related to building and we cover topics related to building and growing ambitious sas startups that and growing ambitious sas startups that and growing ambitious sas startups that bring us freedom and purpose bring us freedom and purpose bring us freedom and purpose and allow us to value and maintain and allow us to value and maintain and allow us to value and maintain healthy relationships healthy relationships healthy relationships we don't ask for permission to start we don't ask for permission to start we don't ask for permission to start companies we build and sell real companies we build and sell real companies we build and sell real products to real customers who pay us products to real customers who pay us products to real customers who pay us real money it's the startups for the real money it's the startups for the real money it's the startups for the rest of us ethos the microconf ethos rest of us ethos the microconf ethos rest of us ethos the microconf ethos microconf on air it's good to have you microconf on air it's good to have you microconf on air it's good to have you back today back today back today we're going to be diving in to a topic we're going to be diving in to a topic we're going to be diving in to a topic that is that is that is it's interesting it's near and dear to it's interesting it's near and dear to it's interesting it's near and dear to my heart even though i don't like doing my heart even though i don't like doing my heart even though i don't like doing it but it's sales it but it's sales it but it's sales and what i love about both sales and and what i love about both sales and and what i love about both sales and marketing is that marketing is that marketing is that a lot of people when you're on the a lot of people when you're on the a lot of people when you're on the outside of this if you've never you know outside of this if you've never you know outside of this if you've never you know been a been a been a salesperson never tried to sell anything salesperson never tried to sell anything salesperson never tried to sell anything you've never tried to market anything you've never tried to market anything you've never tried to market anything especially if you're a developer a especially if you're a developer a especially if you're a developer a technical person you think that these technical person you think that these technical person you think that these things things things are um i don't know that there's some are um i don't know that there's some are um i don't know that there's some type of type of type of of someone waves a magic wand and of someone waves a magic wand and of someone waves a magic wand and convinces someone to buy someone or you convinces someone to buy someone or you convinces someone to buy someone or you think of the the used car salesman you think of the the used car salesman you think of the the used car salesman you know you just think of it as being this know you just think of it as being this know you just think of it as being this kind of skeezy thing kind of skeezy thing kind of skeezy thing but once you get into it and you realize but once you get into it and you realize but once you get into it and you realize oh it's oh it's oh it's it's not about forcing someone or it's not about forcing someone or it's not about forcing someone or persuading something someone to do persuading something someone to do persuading something someone to do something they don't want to do something they don't want to do something they don't want to do sales especially is about being uh as in sales especially is about being uh as in sales especially is about being uh as in our vulset tells me it's like our vulset tells me it's like our vulset tells me it's like you're an unpaid but like highly you're an unpaid but like highly you're an unpaid but like highly valuable valuable valuable in highly valuable consultant in essence

in highly valuable consultant in essence in highly valuable consultant in essence and you're trying to and you're trying to and you're trying to help someone find the right solution for help someone find the right solution for help someone find the right solution for them and that was a big nice mental them and that was a big nice mental them and that was a big nice mental switch for me several years back switch for me several years back switch for me several years back as we were you know starting to do as we were you know starting to do as we were you know starting to do higher touch sales stuff higher touch sales stuff higher touch sales stuff with drip that it was never me with drip that it was never me with drip that it was never me convincing someone to use it it was convincing someone to use it it was convincing someone to use it it was always what are your needs and are we always what are your needs and are we always what are your needs and are we the best the best the best platform for this or should i just refer platform for this or should i just refer platform for this or should i just refer you out which we would do as well and so you out which we would do as well and so you out which we would do as well and so i i i i just think the the importance of sales i just think the the importance of sales i just think the the importance of sales is is is you know often forgotten i don't think you know often forgotten i don't think you know often forgotten i don't think it's talked about enough i it's talked about enough i it's talked about enough i want to have more people in our space want to have more people in our space want to have more people in our space who are thinking about it who are thinking about it who are thinking about it talking about it and you know bring talking about it and you know bring talking about it and you know bring expertise in sales expertise in sales expertise in sales and marketing to the table so today i and marketing to the table so today i and marketing to the table so today i have the pleasure have the pleasure have the pleasure of welcoming john endegay to the show of welcoming john endegay to the show of welcoming john endegay to the show john currently works in sales at amazon john currently works in sales at amazon john currently works in sales at amazon web services web services web services but he and i got to know each other when but he and i got to know each other when but he and i got to know each other when he was running he was running he was running he founded and launched a sas app called he founded and launched a sas app called he founded and launched a sas app called pocket risk he ran that from pocket risk he ran that from pocket risk he ran that from 2012 to 2017 when he 2012 to 2017 when he 2012 to 2017 when he sold it and he and i of course you know sold it and he and i of course you know sold it and he and i of course you know he was a single founder he was a single founder he was a single founder small sas niche sas app and uh he and i small sas niche sas app and uh he and i small sas niche sas app and uh he and i got to know each other through got to know each other through got to know each other through microconfig and he went up speaking at microconfig and he went up speaking at microconfig and he went up speaking at microcom europe in 2015 microcom europe in 2015 microcom europe in 2015 um and yeah it's really good to have um and yeah it's really good to have um and yeah it's really good to have john back he was john back he was john back he was he was running a digital marketing he was running a digital marketing he was running a digital marketing consultancy for the past few years in consultancy for the past few years in consultancy for the past few years in the crypto space the crypto space the crypto space but he's back talking to us small but he's back talking to us small but he's back talking to us small startup founders and hanging out and he startup founders and hanging out and he startup founders and hanging out and he is john n is john n is john n luna wait a minute yeah okay john

luna wait a minute yeah okay john luna wait a minute yeah okay john n-d-e-g-e n-d-e-g-e n-d-e-g-e john endeague on twitter john welcome to john endeague on twitter john welcome to john endeague on twitter john welcome to microconfig air microconfig air microconfig air thank you very much it's great to be thank you very much it's great to be thank you very much it's great to be here yeah man it's great to have you so here yeah man it's great to have you so here yeah man it's great to have you so i want to kick us off today i didn't i want to kick us off today i didn't i want to kick us off today i didn't prep you for this but prep you for this but prep you for this but the first question is a tough one star the first question is a tough one star the first question is a tough one star wars or star trek wars or star trek wars or star trek star trek hands down all right which uh star trek hands down all right which uh star trek hands down all right which uh the origin the origin the origin the original series the next generation the original series the next generation the original series the next generation the movies what's your what's your bag the movies what's your what's your bag the movies what's your what's your bag this is controversial for some people this is controversial for some people this is controversial for some people but i think my favorite was but i think my favorite was but i think my favorite was deep space nine actually okay yeah deep space nine actually okay yeah deep space nine actually okay yeah that's not the usual fan favorite that i that's not the usual fan favorite that i that's not the usual fan favorite that i hear hear hear so i i watched star trek the original so i i watched star trek the original so i i watched star trek the original series i never did watch the next series i never did watch the next series i never did watch the next generation but i feel like i need to dig generation but i feel like i need to dig generation but i feel like i need to dig into that at some point into that at some point into that at some point um cool so we you know you have a lot of um cool so we you know you have a lot of um cool so we you know you have a lot of experience with sales experience with sales experience with sales uh both on on your sas app pocket risk uh both on on your sas app pocket risk uh both on on your sas app pocket risk you were doing a lot of one-on-one you were doing a lot of one-on-one you were doing a lot of one-on-one conversations high-touch sales working conversations high-touch sales working conversations high-touch sales working with financial planners and advisors if with financial planners and advisors if with financial planners and advisors if i recall i recall i recall obviously i'm sure you did a ton of obviously i'm sure you did a ton of obviously i'm sure you did a ton of sales at your digital marketing sales at your digital marketing sales at your digital marketing consultancy renowned and co consultancy renowned and co consultancy renowned and co and now you know you're continuing that and now you know you're continuing that and now you know you're continuing that thread um thread um thread um at aws so the at aws so the at aws so the i think the title of this session is i think the title of this session is i think the title of this session is scripting sales scripting sales scripting sales and i would love to hear what you mean and i would love to hear what you mean and i would love to hear what you mean by that like why should you do you mean by that like why should you do you mean by that like why should you do you mean creating a script for your sales calls creating a script for your sales calls creating a script for your sales calls and and why should someone think about and and why should someone think about and and why should someone think about doing that doing that doing that sure so when people think about starting sure so when people think about starting sure so when people think about starting a sas a sas a sas app or some kind of software it's app or some kind of software it's app or some kind of software it's natural to create natural to create natural to create a product or a feature and test it over

a product or a feature and test it over a product or a feature and test it over time so you want to put it out there in time so you want to put it out there in time so you want to put it out there in the marketplace the marketplace the marketplace see what customers think about it and see what customers think about it and see what customers think about it and iterate over time iterate over time iterate over time but often people don't have the same but often people don't have the same but often people don't have the same mindset when it comes to sales so you mindset when it comes to sales so you mindset when it comes to sales so you can actually have can actually have can actually have a script or a playbook or like a demo a script or a playbook or like a demo a script or a playbook or like a demo that you go through of customers that you go through of customers that you go through of customers and iterate on that over time and and iterate on that over time and and iterate on that over time and actually improve the way you communicate actually improve the way you communicate actually improve the way you communicate the value that your app creates the value that your app creates the value that your app creates and i think if people had more of that and i think if people had more of that and i think if people had more of that mindset they'll get better at cell that mindset they'll get better at cell that mindset they'll get better at cell that they thought of it as an iterative they thought of it as an iterative they thought of it as an iterative process process process where you actually test it and eb test where you actually test it and eb test where you actually test it and eb test it effectively against customers or it effectively against customers or it effectively against customers or prospects prospects prospects then they'll come up with a way to then they'll come up with a way to then they'll come up with a way to communicate the value of their app communicate the value of their app communicate the value of their app which really resonates with customers which really resonates with customers which really resonates with customers and they'll see their their sales and they'll see their their sales and they'll see their their sales actually actually actually uh improve they'll also get to hear uh improve they'll also get to hear uh improve they'll also get to hear about of course the objections and the about of course the objections and the about of course the objections and the challenges customers have with the app challenges customers have with the app challenges customers have with the app in a way which they wouldn't otherwise in a way which they wouldn't otherwise in a way which they wouldn't otherwise hear so that's why i believe in having hear so that's why i believe in having hear so that's why i believe in having this this this sales script and how tightly is it sales script and how tightly is it sales script and how tightly is it scripted scripted scripted it it it seems to me if it was just a it it it seems to me if it was just a it it it seems to me if it was just a monologue that i'm reading it's going to monologue that i'm reading it's going to monologue that i'm reading it's going to feel stilted is it more like bullet feel stilted is it more like bullet feel stilted is it more like bullet points points points it's bullet points um i mean the basic it's bullet points um i mean the basic it's bullet points um i mean the basic sales script is uh sales script is uh sales script is uh in an introduction where you say to in an introduction where you say to in an introduction where you say to someone hello how's your day you know someone hello how's your day you know someone hello how's your day you know usually humans like to start off with usually humans like to start off with usually humans like to start off with something personal you don't go something personal you don't go something personal you don't go launch straight into the sales script launch straight into the sales script launch straight into the sales script you know you talk about the customer's you know you talk about the customer's you know you talk about the customer's problems there's a reason why they're problems there's a reason why they're problems there's a reason why they're why they're taking the time to speak to why they're taking the time to speak to why they're taking the time to speak to you you you and then you start to talk about you and then you start to talk about you and then you start to talk about you know how they solve the problem today know how they solve the problem today know how they solve the problem today any kind of challenges they have any kind of challenges they have any kind of challenges they have you starting about asking them what's you starting about asking them what's you starting about asking them what's their ideal solution and then you see if their ideal solution and then you see if their ideal solution and then you see if there's a bridge between what you have there's a bridge between what you have there's a bridge between what you have and their problem and can the solution and their problem and can the solution and their problem and can the solution that you've created that you've created that you've created can it solve their problem so yes this

can it solve their problem so yes this can it solve their problem so yes this is kind of like bullet points what is kind of like bullet points what is kind of like bullet points what happens is that happens is that happens is that after maybe doing 30 or so calls it after maybe doing 30 or so calls it after maybe doing 30 or so calls it stops being stops being stops being almost scripted at all or there's almost scripted at all or there's almost scripted at all or there's there's no bullet points because it there's no bullet points because it there's no bullet points because it becomes natural becomes natural becomes natural um but usually just the first like 30 or um but usually just the first like 30 or um but usually just the first like 30 or so calls when you've got a new app or so calls when you've got a new app or so calls when you've got a new app or new product new product new product and you're unsure what the market thinks and you're unsure what the market thinks and you're unsure what the market thinks about it it's good to actually have about it it's good to actually have about it it's good to actually have a script and you'll find with each call a script and you'll find with each call a script and you'll find with each call you you deviate from the script more and you you deviate from the script more and you you deviate from the script more and more as you get feedback from the market more as you get feedback from the market more as you get feedback from the market and learn as you go and you start and learn as you go and you start and learn as you go and you start imagining you start adjusting the script imagining you start adjusting the script imagining you start adjusting the script and editing it such that if you were to and editing it such that if you were to and editing it such that if you were to hire other salespeople you can pass it hire other salespeople you can pass it hire other salespeople you can pass it along to them along to them along to them exactly cool do you have an example of exactly cool do you have an example of exactly cool do you have an example of this this this you know whether on on your blog or just you know whether on on your blog or just you know whether on on your blog or just on the interwebs that you you know we on the interwebs that you you know we on the interwebs that you you know we could potentially refer people to could potentially refer people to could potentially refer people to i actually don't have one well actually i actually don't have one well actually i actually don't have one well actually you know what i actually created you know what i actually created you know what i actually created a um a short video on youtube if you if a um a short video on youtube if you if a um a short video on youtube if you if you you you search my name on youtube where i talk search my name on youtube where i talk search my name on youtube where i talk about um if you have a problem about um if you have a problem about um if you have a problem selling software this is kind of the selling software this is kind of the selling software this is kind of the solution and it talks a little bit about solution and it talks a little bit about solution and it talks a little bit about sales groups so that could help sales groups so that could help sales groups so that could help um okay i'll also recommend a book uh by um okay i'll also recommend a book uh by um okay i'll also recommend a book uh by neil rachman called spin selling neil rachman called spin selling neil rachman called spin selling which is a very good book on sales um which is a very good book on sales um which is a very good book on sales um and that gives you the general kind of and that gives you the general kind of and that gives you the general kind of format for how to think about creating a format for how to think about creating a format for how to think about creating a script it's a fairly long book i think script it's a fairly long book i think script it's a fairly long book i think it's like three or four hundred pages it's like three or four hundred pages it's like three or four hundred pages but but but actually if you just google the summary actually if you just google the summary actually if you just google the summary on um you'll find some summaries online on um you'll find some summaries online on um you'll find some summaries online and that'll give you a lot of the and that'll give you a lot of the and that'll give you a lot of the information but actually it's probably information but actually it's probably information but actually it's probably good to read the book just to good to read the book just to good to read the book just to fully digest what you're what you're fully digest what you're what you're fully digest what you're what you're trying to learn trying to learn trying to learn very good yeah i often google the

very good yeah i often google the very good yeah i often google the summaries before i read a business book summaries before i read a business book summaries before i read a business book because it's not like there's spoilers because it's not like there's spoilers because it's not like there's spoilers in it right in it right in it right and a lot of business books i find and a lot of business books i find and a lot of business books i find really should just have been the summary really should just have been the summary really should just have been the summary there should have been an article there should have been an article there should have been an article instead of 300 but instead of 300 but instead of 300 but if you i've read it's been selling if you i've read it's been selling if you i've read it's been selling probably 15 20 years ago i don't probably 15 20 years ago i don't probably 15 20 years ago i don't remember it very well but um you know remember it very well but um you know remember it very well but um you know it's one of those that's it's one of those that's it's one of those that's that's recommended uh i forgot to do a that's recommended uh i forgot to do a that's recommended uh i forgot to do a call call call for questions at the top of our for questions at the top of our for questions at the top of our conversation so you know most folks know conversation so you know most folks know conversation so you know most folks know the drill by now the drill by now the drill by now um that obviously we're recording this um that obviously we're recording this um that obviously we're recording this live it's a live stream and one of the live it's a live stream and one of the live it's a live stream and one of the huge benefits of that is that you know huge benefits of that is that you know huge benefits of that is that you know the audience is able to the audience is able to the audience is able to uh ask questions so actually it looks uh ask questions so actually it looks uh ask questions so actually it looks like we do thank you pablo like we do thank you pablo like we do thank you pablo we have a question already even uh you we have a question already even uh you we have a question already even uh you know i had announced it know i had announced it know i had announced it so pablo asks how long are these so pablo asks how long are these so pablo asks how long are these scripts generally yes so typically they can take as long yes so typically they can take as long as as as 30 minutes to go through maybe 45 30 minutes to go through maybe 45 30 minutes to go through maybe 45 but the key thing with sales is the best but the key thing with sales is the best but the key thing with sales is the best calls usually calls usually calls usually is when the customer is speaking more is when the customer is speaking more is when the customer is speaking more than you are than you are than you are and you are leading the conversation so and you are leading the conversation so and you are leading the conversation so really you want the customer the really you want the customer the really you want the customer the prospect to speak prospect to speak prospect to speak uh much more than you do so they're more uh much more than you do so they're more uh much more than you do so they're more like prompts but it's very hard to like prompts but it's very hard to like prompts but it's very hard to i see to communicate the value of a i see to communicate the value of a i see to communicate the value of a piece of software piece of software piece of software in less than 30 minutes because there's in less than 30 minutes because there's in less than 30 minutes because there's the preamble there's understanding their the preamble there's understanding their the preamble there's understanding their problems it can take a long time problems it can take a long time problems it can take a long time most sas apps will have at least three most sas apps will have at least three most sas apps will have at least three or four main features that you have to or four main features that you have to or four main features that you have to go through and connect to their problems go through and connect to their problems go through and connect to their problems you know the person might turn up a few you know the person might turn up a few you know the person might turn up a few minutes late to the call and then you minutes late to the call and then you minutes late to the call and then you need to have time to wrap up so need to have time to wrap up so need to have time to wrap up so that always takes at least 30 minutes

that always takes at least 30 minutes that always takes at least 30 minutes that makes sense and then in terms of that makes sense and then in terms of that makes sense and then in terms of i'm not sure if he's asking about length i'm not sure if he's asking about length i'm not sure if he's asking about length of of of uh you know duration which 30 minutes is uh you know duration which 30 minutes is uh you know duration which 30 minutes is is good to hear that you think that's is good to hear that you think that's is good to hear that you think that's standard standard standard um or if he's asking how long are the um or if he's asking how long are the um or if he's asking how long are the physical scripts you know is it physical scripts you know is it physical scripts you know is it we talked about it being bullet points we talked about it being bullet points we talked about it being bullet points is it eight bullet points is it eight bullet points is it eight bullet points ten bullet points have you i mean a half ten bullet points have you i mean a half ten bullet points have you i mean a half a page what what do you normally see two pages oh one pages of bullet points two pages oh one pages of bullet points yeah okay so it's a lot so you really yeah okay so it's a lot so you really yeah okay so it's a lot so you really are it's i mean are it's i mean are it's i mean if you think about a page of bullet if you think about a page of bullet if you think about a page of bullet points might be what 20 or 30 bullets points might be what 20 or 30 bullets points might be what 20 or 30 bullets maybe more and so if you think about a maybe more and so if you think about a maybe more and so if you think about a 30 minute call i mean you're you have a 30 minute call i mean you're you have a 30 minute call i mean you're you have a bullet for every bullet for every bullet for every you know 15 wait 30 seconds give or take you know 15 wait 30 seconds give or take you know 15 wait 30 seconds give or take exactly because the challenges will exactly because the challenges will exactly because the challenges will happen is that you'll have a question happen is that you'll have a question happen is that you'll have a question and then you'll see common responses so and then you'll see common responses so and then you'll see common responses so then you need to write down the response then you need to write down the response then you need to write down the response for the common response so then you end for the common response so then you end for the common response so then you end up getting longer and longer up getting longer and longer up getting longer and longer yes so to choose your own adventure a yes so to choose your own adventure a yes so to choose your own adventure a bit because you don't go through it line bit because you don't go through it line bit because you don't go through it line by line you say if they ask this by line you say if they ask this by line you say if they ask this question if they have this objection question if they have this objection question if they have this objection got it very interesting you know it's a got it very interesting you know it's a got it very interesting you know it's a trip and all the years trip and all the years trip and all the years of hearing sales you know of hearing sales you know of hearing sales you know leaders talk like steli fd and um you leaders talk like steli fd and um you leaders talk like steli fd and um you know damian thompson know damian thompson know damian thompson they've both been on on uh startups they've both been on on uh startups they've both been on on uh startups arrest fest and arrest fest and arrest fest and um you know steli spoken at micrograph um you know steli spoken at micrograph um you know steli spoken at micrograph many many times i haven't heard much many many times i haven't heard much many many times i haven't heard much about scripting sales calls so i'm about scripting sales calls so i'm about scripting sales calls so i'm actually pretty fascinated by this actually pretty fascinated by this actually pretty fascinated by this this it makes a lot of sense why you this it makes a lot of sense why you this it makes a lot of sense why you would do that and i can imagine would do that and i can imagine would do that and i can imagine especially early on you hire a new sales especially early on you hire a new sales especially early on you hire a new sales person you don't want them to sit down

person you don't want them to sit down person you don't want them to sit down you know with a blank page and having you know with a blank page and having you know with a blank page and having some type of script for them to some type of script for them to some type of script for them to write i've heard of like truly like um write i've heard of like truly like um write i've heard of like truly like um outbound telemarketing outbound telemarketing outbound telemarketing scripts where they are literally reading scripts where they are literally reading scripts where they are literally reading from it but this that's not really what from it but this that's not really what from it but this that's not really what you're saying you know you're saying you're saying you know you're saying you're saying you know you're saying it's like an it's like an it's like an outline it's like the sales call outline outline it's like the sales call outline outline it's like the sales call outline with right and with right and with right and i'm i'm intrigued by this idea so there's one important point to make is there's one important point to make is that sometimes on the court it can be that sometimes on the court it can be that sometimes on the court it can be difficult to ask difficult to ask difficult to ask difficult questions and when you have it difficult questions and when you have it difficult questions and when you have it written down in front of your system written down in front of your system written down in front of your system you want to ask the customer a difficult you want to ask the customer a difficult you want to ask the customer a difficult question it could be a simple thing like question it could be a simple thing like question it could be a simple thing like um how much are you paying for your you um how much are you paying for your you um how much are you paying for your you know existing software some people might know existing software some people might know existing software some people might feel uncomfortable asking that feel uncomfortable asking that feel uncomfortable asking that to a customer but you have it written to a customer but you have it written to a customer but you have it written down it forces you to down it forces you to down it forces you to ask the questions the uncomfortable ask the questions the uncomfortable ask the questions the uncomfortable question is you don't ask question is you don't ask question is you don't ask but you sometimes you have to ask those but you sometimes you have to ask those but you sometimes you have to ask those questions to the customer for them to questions to the customer for them to questions to the customer for them to realize realize realize okay this is the value i'm going to get okay this is the value i'm going to get okay this is the value i'm going to get from what you're producing from what you're producing from what you're producing right asking questions what's your right asking questions what's your right asking questions what's your budget what's your timeline budget what's your timeline budget what's your timeline what how many people what other people what how many people what other people what how many people what other people need to make a decision you know these need to make a decision you know these need to make a decision you know these are are are questions that can feel to some like questions that can feel to some like questions that can feel to some like you're prying or something but you kind you're prying or something but you kind you're prying or something but you kind of need that information and so having of need that information and so having of need that information and so having those written down those written down those written down i agree would be helpful so okay so i agree would be helpful so okay so i agree would be helpful so okay so let's say i'm a i'm a let's say i'm a i'm a let's say i'm a i'm a founder of a small b2b sas bootstrapped founder of a small b2b sas bootstrapped founder of a small b2b sas bootstrapped or mostly bootstrapped or mostly bootstrapped or mostly bootstrapped i don't have a sales team and i'm i don't have a sales team and i'm i don't have a sales team and i'm running my own sales calls running my own sales calls running my own sales calls in terms of structuring that it does it in terms of structuring that it does it in terms of structuring that it does it come back to what you are what you said come back to what you are what you said come back to what you are what you said at the top i mean the first question i at the top i mean the first question i at the top i mean the first question i asked was what's the script like and you asked was what's the script like and you asked was what's the script like and you kind of ran through the high level

kind of ran through the high level kind of ran through the high level bullets of bullets of bullets of you know it's it's it's a welcome and you know it's it's it's a welcome and you know it's it's it's a welcome and then it's a finding out their problem then it's a finding out their problem then it's a finding out their problem and then it's time and then it's time and then it's time is that your structure yeah that's is that your structure yeah that's is that your structure yeah that's exactly the structure and just to repeat exactly the structure and just to repeat exactly the structure and just to repeat for those who have missed that yes it's for those who have missed that yes it's for those who have missed that yes it's you know an introduction an introduction you know an introduction an introduction you know an introduction an introduction so you know hello how are you how's your so you know hello how are you how's your so you know hello how are you how's your day day day keep it short and sweet you don't need keep it short and sweet you don't need keep it short and sweet you don't need to ask lots of information about that to ask lots of information about that to ask lots of information about that but just some general pleasantries but just some general pleasantries but just some general pleasantries um and then you go into asking you know um and then you go into asking you know um and then you go into asking you know what's their problem like why are they what's their problem like why are they what's their problem like why are they there on the on the call you know there on the on the call you know there on the on the call you know there's a reason why someone has taken there's a reason why someone has taken there's a reason why someone has taken time to sit down with you time to sit down with you time to sit down with you to do a phone call or video call to do a phone call or video call to do a phone call or video call whatever um so whatever um so whatever um so find out what they what that issue is find out what they what that issue is find out what they what that issue is find out how they solve the problem find out how they solve the problem find out how they solve the problem today that's the third point so today that's the third point so today that's the third point so usually there's some kind of hack usually there's some kind of hack usually there's some kind of hack they're putting together to solve the they're putting together to solve the they're putting together to solve the problem today problem today problem today if they're not looking for any other if they're not looking for any other if they're not looking for any other kind of solution and they're just living kind of solution and they're just living kind of solution and they're just living without a without a without a without a solution today then you have without a solution today then you have without a solution today then you have to wonder is this really a problem for to wonder is this really a problem for to wonder is this really a problem for them them them maybe it's not a very big problem if maybe it's not a very big problem if maybe it's not a very big problem if they can just live without a solution they can just live without a solution they can just live without a solution so that can be insight for that part um so that can be insight for that part um so that can be insight for that part um then it's uh it can be useful to hear then it's uh it can be useful to hear then it's uh it can be useful to hear what their ideal solution is customers what their ideal solution is customers what their ideal solution is customers are usually quite bad at knowing what are usually quite bad at knowing what are usually quite bad at knowing what this this this the solution they want but at least they the solution they want but at least they the solution they want but at least they can say general topics like can say general topics like can say general topics like they want it to be fast or they want it they want it to be fast or they want it they want it to be fast or they want it to to to integrate with some other software you integrate with some other software you integrate with some other software you know general high level stuff which is know general high level stuff which is know general high level stuff which is useful for you useful for you useful for you because that lets you know what other because that lets you know what other because that lets you know what other parts of your application uh parts of your application uh parts of your application uh can really add value to them and so if can really add value to them and so if can really add value to them and so if you if you don't if you skip that part you if you don't if you skip that part you if you don't if you skip that part you might end up talking about one part you might end up talking about one part you might end up talking about one part of of of your application that has nothing to do your application that has nothing to do your application that has nothing to do with that problem so it's useful to with that problem so it's useful to with that problem so it's useful to figure out what's the ideal solution figure out what's the ideal solution figure out what's the ideal solution then you present your solution then you present your solution then you present your solution one by one this is dangerous though you one by one this is dangerous though you one by one this is dangerous though you can go into monologue for 15 minutes

can go into monologue for 15 minutes can go into monologue for 15 minutes just talking about your features just talking about your features just talking about your features you don't want to do that you always you don't want to do that you always you don't want to do that you always have to type back to their problem oh have to type back to their problem oh have to type back to their problem oh you said integrating was important you said integrating was important you said integrating was important here's our api feature can you see how here's our api feature can you see how here's our api feature can you see how it works on the screen for example it works on the screen for example it works on the screen for example does this look like it will solve the does this look like it will solve the does this look like it will solve the problem you mentioned five minutes ago problem you mentioned five minutes ago problem you mentioned five minutes ago they say yes or no they say yes or no they say yes or no at the end if they said yes to you know at the end if they said yes to you know at the end if they said yes to you know your five future solves their five your five future solves their five your five future solves their five problems problems problems then they've said yes five times about then they've said yes five times about then they've said yes five times about your solution working for them your solution working for them your solution working for them and then you can go into the close and and then you can go into the close and and then you can go into the close and ask for the sale or ask for the sale or ask for the sale or so on and so forth yeah that makes sense so on and so forth yeah that makes sense so on and so forth yeah that makes sense and if are you blogging these days and if are you blogging these days and if are you blogging these days are you publishing essays not much are you publishing essays not much are you publishing essays not much as i tweet a little bit but not much as i tweet a little bit but not much as i tweet a little bit but not much yeah the reason i ask is because yeah the reason i ask is because yeah the reason i ask is because what you just said there that two-minute what you just said there that two-minute what you just said there that two-minute uh you know monologue with the outline uh you know monologue with the outline uh you know monologue with the outline would just make an amazing would just make an amazing would just make an amazing blog post you know an amazing or even a blog post you know an amazing or even a blog post you know an amazing or even a youtube video if you put it you know youtube video if you put it you know youtube video if you put it you know directly just walk through that and then directly just walk through that and then directly just walk through that and then put the put the put the the bullets in the um you know the the bullets in the um you know the the bullets in the um you know the description for the youtube video below description for the youtube video below description for the youtube video below i know you're doing some stuff on i know you're doing some stuff on i know you're doing some stuff on youtube these days do you have a short youtube these days do you have a short youtube these days do you have a short ur ur ur url for your youtube channel that people url for your youtube channel that people url for your youtube channel that people can can find you or what's the easiest can can find you or what's the easiest can can find you or what's the easiest way way way just search for my name johnny dega will just search for my name johnny dega will just search for my name johnny dega will come up first on youtube there's not come up first on youtube there's not come up first on youtube there's not many of us in the world i think like yep um and yeah i'll do i'll do a video yep um and yeah i'll do i'll do a video on that no problem on that no problem on that no problem okay sounds good um looks like we have okay sounds good um looks like we have okay sounds good um looks like we have another another another question from the uh the listeners i question from the uh the listeners i question from the uh the listeners i usually say from the audience usually say from the audience usually say from the audience every sales call i receive let's see every sales call i receive let's see every sales call i receive let's see every sales call every sales call every sales call i receive introduced their product first

i receive introduced their product first i receive introduced their product first i see every sales call i've been on as a i see every sales call i've been on as a i see every sales call i've been on as a potential customer potential customer potential customer introduced their product first they introduced their product first they introduced their product first they didn't ask me about my problem didn't ask me about my problem didn't ask me about my problem are they all doing it wrong if the person receiving the call has if the person receiving the call has opted into something and it's very opted into something and it's very opted into something and it's very clear this is something you want then i clear this is something you want then i clear this is something you want then i think it's okay to think it's okay to think it's okay to get to the products quickly but i think get to the products quickly but i think get to the products quickly but i think that's the wrong way to go about even if that's the wrong way to go about even if that's the wrong way to go about even if you say you say you say um give me a call about insurance still um give me a call about insurance still um give me a call about insurance still when the person calls you they need to when the person calls you they need to when the person calls you they need to confirm okay confirm okay confirm okay what type of insurance home insurance what type of insurance home insurance what type of insurance home insurance car insurance and then their car car insurance and then their car car insurance and then their car insurance what is your car insurance what is your car insurance what is your car you know so there's still information you know so there's still information you know so there's still information that will never be communicated fully that will never be communicated fully that will never be communicated fully through a form or through a form or through a form or even a even um a pre-call so yes i think even a even um a pre-call so yes i think even a even um a pre-call so yes i think that is a mistake to start with the that is a mistake to start with the that is a mistake to start with the product you should always start with product you should always start with product you should always start with customers problems next question what is the best way to next question what is the best way to prepare for prepare for prepare for a sales call and when i think about this a sales call and when i think about this a sales call and when i think about this question question question i think about you know if i have a i think about you know if i have a i think about you know if i have a prospect do i should i research them prospect do i should i research them prospect do i should i research them should i go to the company should i go to the company should i go to the company website do i look them up on crunchbase website do i look them up on crunchbase website do i look them up on crunchbase do i look the do i look the do i look the individual up on linkedin i don't know individual up on linkedin i don't know individual up on linkedin i don't know what what else how else would you what what else how else would you what what else how else would you prepare for this prepare for this prepare for this yeah so usually up to 30 minutes before yeah so usually up to 30 minutes before yeah so usually up to 30 minutes before the call the call the call as you get better maybe 15 or even 10 as you get better maybe 15 or even 10 as you get better maybe 15 or even 10 minutes before the call yeah i look up minutes before the call yeah i look up minutes before the call yeah i look up the person see if we've got anything in the person see if we've got anything in the person see if we've got anything in common see there's anything interesting common see there's anything interesting common see there's anything interesting usually linkedin is sufficient just usually linkedin is sufficient just usually linkedin is sufficient just google searches google searches google searches you might find some interesting things you might find some interesting things you might find some interesting things they're from the same town as you

they're from the same town as you they're from the same town as you or they went to the same college or you or they went to the same college or you or they went to the same college or you know little things like that that know little things like that that know little things like that that might come up or you might realize um might come up or you might realize um might come up or you might realize um that they previously worked with a that they previously worked with a that they previously worked with a competitor or some kind of competitor or some kind of competitor or some kind of little tidbit of information that might little tidbit of information that might little tidbit of information that might help so you're not going in blind you help so you're not going in blind you help so you're not going in blind you should definitely research the company should definitely research the company should definitely research the company just have a general idea of just have a general idea of just have a general idea of who is this person what is their role who is this person what is their role who is this person what is their role how big is the company how big is the company how big is the company you know you can even assess things like you know you can even assess things like you know you can even assess things like do they have the budget just from do they have the budget just from do they have the budget just from looking at their website and that gives looking at their website and that gives looking at their website and that gives you you you the ability to frame um the questions the ability to frame um the questions the ability to frame um the questions you're about to ask you're about to ask you're about to ask yeah and i have a question for you are yeah and i have a question for you are yeah and i have a question for you are you living in a bomb shelter because you you living in a bomb shelter because you you living in a bomb shelter because you have a lot of boxes behind you have a lot of boxes behind you have a lot of boxes behind you i just moved into a new house and we i just moved into a new house and we i just moved into a new house and we hired this uh crazy interior designer hired this uh crazy interior designer hired this uh crazy interior designer who who who convinced us to get these leopards on convinced us to get these leopards on convinced us to get these leopards on the wall here so um the wall here so um the wall here so um yeah pretty much a bomb shelter with yeah pretty much a bomb shelter with yeah pretty much a bomb shelter with leopards on the wall leopards on the wall leopards on the wall for now yeah until that's put it away i for now yeah until that's put it away i for now yeah until that's put it away i just wanted i wanted to call it out in just wanted i wanted to call it out in just wanted i wanted to call it out in case people are watching and thinking case people are watching and thinking case people are watching and thinking why is john surrounded by all these why is john surrounded by all these why is john surrounded by all these boxes filled with random stuff boxes filled with random stuff boxes filled with random stuff so you touched a little bit on spin so you touched a little bit on spin so you touched a little bit on spin selling earlier selling earlier selling earlier as a resource and of course your youtube as a resource and of course your youtube as a resource and of course your youtube channel channel channel a question that we get a lot is i'm a a question that we get a lot is i'm a a question that we get a lot is i'm a solo founder solo founder solo founder or i'm on a small team of three or four or i'm on a small team of three or four or i'm on a small team of three or four people and we want to learn more about people and we want to learn more about people and we want to learn more about selling and it seems like the tactics of selling and it seems like the tactics of selling and it seems like the tactics of today are you know pretty today are you know pretty today are you know pretty different than even what we learned a different than even what we learned a different than even what we learned a few years ago so few years ago so few years ago so are there any other in addition to spin are there any other in addition to spin are there any other in addition to spin selling are there any courses any other selling are there any courses any other selling are there any courses any other books books books you know people like yourself uh you you know people like yourself uh you you know people like yourself uh you know other kind of online mentors or know other kind of online mentors or know other kind of online mentors or whatever that you would recommend people

whatever that you would recommend people whatever that you would recommend people follow or check out um follow or check out um follow or check out um unfortunately this at this juncture i unfortunately this at this juncture i unfortunately this at this juncture i just have to be honest and say the best just have to be honest and say the best just have to be honest and say the best way to lend sales is to do sales calls way to lend sales is to do sales calls way to lend sales is to do sales calls learning and reading books around will learning and reading books around will learning and reading books around will you know give you a little bit of you know give you a little bit of you know give you a little bit of information information information but you just need to do it that's how but you just need to do it that's how but you just need to do it that's how you're going to learn and within you're going to learn and within you're going to learn and within 10 calls you'll have the confidence to 10 calls you'll have the confidence to 10 calls you'll have the confidence to speak to people pretty consistently speak to people pretty consistently speak to people pretty consistently uh within 20 calls you'll know your uh within 20 calls you'll know your uh within 20 calls you'll know your scripts and be comfortable that within scripts and be comfortable that within scripts and be comfortable that within 30 calls you'll be able to sell your 30 calls you'll be able to sell your 30 calls you'll be able to sell your product hands down no issues it usually product hands down no issues it usually product hands down no issues it usually just takes 30 calls just takes 30 calls just takes 30 calls so you just need to set yourself that so you just need to set yourself that so you just need to set yourself that goal let me just get through 30 calls goal let me just get through 30 calls goal let me just get through 30 calls it's like it's like it's like when you haven't been working out for a when you haven't been working out for a when you haven't been working out for a while and you want to get back in shape while and you want to get back in shape while and you want to get back in shape you know you just need to go and work you know you just need to go and work you know you just need to go and work out whatever six or seven times and then out whatever six or seven times and then out whatever six or seven times and then you get your you get your you get your momentum and your flow it's just that's momentum and your flow it's just that's momentum and your flow it's just that's just the hump just the hump just the hump and that's the best way to um to prepare and that's the best way to um to prepare and that's the best way to um to prepare and to learn and to get good is just to and to learn and to get good is just to and to learn and to get good is just to do it do it do it yeah yeah i would definitely agree i yeah yeah i would definitely agree i yeah yeah i would definitely agree i always found it always found it always found it really hard it just isn't in my really hard it just isn't in my really hard it just isn't in my personality personality personality i think to do a lot of sales calls um or i think to do a lot of sales calls um or i think to do a lot of sales calls um or not to do a lot of them but just not to do a lot of them but just not to do a lot of them but just sales is not something that comes sales is not something that comes sales is not something that comes naturally to me but i did have to do it naturally to me but i did have to do it naturally to me but i did have to do it on a on a on a few different products frankly um and few different products frankly um and few different products frankly um and i've definitely found the more i did it i've definitely found the more i did it i've definitely found the more i did it the more comfortable i felt and the more the more comfortable i felt and the more the more comfortable i felt and the more the less the less the less i guess on the spot i felt that was my i guess on the spot i felt that was my i guess on the spot i felt that was my problem originally is it was like i need problem originally is it was like i need problem originally is it was like i need all the answers and i i'm all the answers and i i'm all the answers and i i'm i feel like i'm you know messing up the i feel like i'm you know messing up the i feel like i'm you know messing up the call if i don't call if i don't call if i don't uh basically have all the answers to uh basically have all the answers to uh basically have all the answers to have all the recommendations or have all the recommendations or have all the recommendations or you know if we don't have all the you know if we don't have all the you know if we don't have all the features they want then somehow i have features they want then somehow i have features they want then somehow i have failed it and i think that once i did

failed it and i think that once i did failed it and i think that once i did 10 calls 15 calls and started being able 10 calls 15 calls and started being able 10 calls 15 calls and started being able to just answer like oh well here you to just answer like oh well here you to just answer like oh well here you know think about this do you really need know think about this do you really need know think about this do you really need that or maybe we're not a fit for you or that or maybe we're not a fit for you or that or maybe we're not a fit for you or you know we actually do have all of it you know we actually do have all of it you know we actually do have all of it it just you know gave me a comfort level it just you know gave me a comfort level it just you know gave me a comfort level that i didn't have early on and of that i didn't have early on and of that i didn't have early on and of course getting a customer course getting a customer course getting a customer is great once you get one two three is great once you get one two three is great once you get one two three customers then you know you have customers then you know you have customers then you know you have something and then you just keep going something and then you just keep going something and then you just keep going right yeah it builds confidence another right yeah it builds confidence another right yeah it builds confidence another question from question from question from the viewers for sales calls do you have the viewers for sales calls do you have the viewers for sales calls do you have an opinion on whether to do an opinion on whether to do an opinion on whether to do video or audio only is this changing video or audio only is this changing video or audio only is this changing that's a really good question actually that's a really good question actually that's a really good question actually that's a very good question so i always that's a very good question so i always that's a very good question so i always used to do audio only because i believe used to do audio only because i believe used to do audio only because i believe that people get distracted by that people get distracted by that people get distracted by visual cues what speak in people's visual cues what speak in people's visual cues what speak in people's backgrounds or you know different things backgrounds or you know different things backgrounds or you know different things so i've always been audio only so i've always been audio only so i've always been audio only but now with kovid people don't have the but now with kovid people don't have the but now with kovid people don't have the um there's more of an expectation to um there's more of an expectation to um there's more of an expectation to have video on now because it's become a have video on now because it's become a have video on now because it's become a trust builder trust builder trust builder and you know if someone just does audio and you know if someone just does audio and you know if someone just does audio you start to wonder can i you start to wonder can i you start to wonder can i trust this person you know who you know trust this person you know who you know trust this person you know who you know is just the sound coming through the is just the sound coming through the is just the sound coming through the computer science so i think computer science so i think computer science so i think i would now do video calls reluctantly i would now do video calls reluctantly i would now do video calls reluctantly but i would make sure that i have a but i would make sure that i have a but i would make sure that i have a clean background nothing crazy you know clean background nothing crazy you know clean background nothing crazy you know going on around me and just trying to going on around me and just trying to going on around me and just trying to focus focus focus the conversation on the topics also the conversation on the topics also the conversation on the topics also people don't like people don't like people don't like answering difficult questions when they answering difficult questions when they answering difficult questions when they can see people's faces like you know can see people's faces like you know can see people's faces like you know um if you ask hard questions you know um if you ask hard questions you know um if you ask hard questions you know people squirm and they feel people squirm and they feel people squirm and they feel uncomfortable in there so uncomfortable in there so uncomfortable in there so i would always try and go to audio if

i would always try and go to audio if i would always try and go to audio if you can you can you can yeah audio is my default i'm not doing yeah audio is my default i'm not doing yeah audio is my default i'm not doing sales calls but like just my default sales calls but like just my default sales calls but like just my default communication communication communication i much more enjoy audio um i like that i much more enjoy audio um i like that i much more enjoy audio um i like that like you said there's no distraction like you said there's no distraction like you said there's no distraction when i record podcasts you know we use when i record podcasts you know we use when i record podcasts you know we use squadcast and squadcast and squadcast and they have video on by default and before they have video on by default and before they have video on by default and before i hit record i i hit record i i hit record i i turn mine off and i ask the guest to i turn mine off and i ask the guest to i turn mine off and i ask the guest to turn those off we do pure audio only turn those off we do pure audio only turn those off we do pure audio only because that's the medium everyone will because that's the medium everyone will because that's the medium everyone will hear hear hear you know and there's something about it you know and there's something about it you know and there's something about it being more relaxed and to your point being more relaxed and to your point being more relaxed and to your point if i if i do have to ask i don't ask if i if i do have to ask i don't ask if i if i do have to ask i don't ask like really awkward questions but like really awkward questions but like really awkward questions but sometimes i have to ask tough questions sometimes i have to ask tough questions sometimes i have to ask tough questions about something you know decision about something you know decision about something you know decision someone made or someone made or someone made or um there there can be you know a moment um there there can be you know a moment um there there can be you know a moment of pushback of like well what you know i of pushback of like well what you know i of pushback of like well what you know i dig deeper and everything and i feel dig deeper and everything and i feel dig deeper and everything and i feel like with audio it is uh there's just a like with audio it is uh there's just a like with audio it is uh there's just a deeper comfort level all right any other questions from the all right any other questions from the audience if not i am going audience if not i am going audience if not i am going to um i want to dig in a little more to um i want to dig in a little more to um i want to dig in a little more i mean i feel like we've covered scripts i mean i feel like we've covered scripts i mean i feel like we've covered scripts pretty well if there's anything else you pretty well if there's anything else you pretty well if there's anything else you feel like we haven't dug into feel like we haven't dug into feel like we haven't dug into specifically with scripts please specifically with scripts please specifically with scripts please please chime in um but i please chime in um but i please chime in um but i i'm good yeah one thing i would mention i'm good yeah one thing i would mention i'm good yeah one thing i would mention that you mentioned this earlier but that you mentioned this earlier but that you mentioned this earlier but one thing that's helped me a lot in one thing that's helped me a lot in one thing that's helped me a lot in cells which is nothing to do with cells which is nothing to do with cells which is nothing to do with scripts scripts scripts is um it's kind of is um it's kind of is um it's kind of getting your body in shape now this getting your body in shape now this getting your body in shape now this sounds a bit weird to talk about sounds a bit weird to talk about sounds a bit weird to talk about health and well-being so to speak but if health and well-being so to speak but if health and well-being so to speak but if i start the morning with a run maybe i start the morning with a run maybe i start the morning with a run maybe listen to some upbeat music and then i listen to some upbeat music and then i listen to some upbeat music and then i start my work day i find i have much

start my work day i find i have much start my work day i find i have much more productive days more productive days more productive days than when you know i've gone to bed hey than when you know i've gone to bed hey than when you know i've gone to bed hey i clay i'm a little bit lethargic i clay i'm a little bit lethargic i clay i'm a little bit lethargic it sounds silly but just the rhythm of it sounds silly but just the rhythm of it sounds silly but just the rhythm of your body can have a huge your body can have a huge your body can have a huge impact on how your sales calls go so i impact on how your sales calls go so i impact on how your sales calls go so i recommend starting with recommend starting with recommend starting with maybe a little bit of music in the maybe a little bit of music in the maybe a little bit of music in the shower before you start your day maybe shower before you start your day maybe shower before you start your day maybe doing some exercise doing some exercise doing some exercise you'll get better results hands down awesome yeah i like that oh we got a awesome yeah i like that oh we got a question question question uh what's the threshold for sas in terms uh what's the threshold for sas in terms uh what's the threshold for sas in terms of pricing of pricing of pricing that at what point do sales calls make that at what point do sales calls make that at what point do sales calls make sense sense sense for example 500 a month and up for example 500 a month and up for example 500 a month and up so i would just couch this john before so i would just couch this john before so i would just couch this john before you answer i think i don't think of it you answer i think i don't think of it you answer i think i don't think of it as as as as monthly pricing i think of it as as monthly pricing i think of it as as monthly pricing i think of it as lifetime value lifetime value lifetime value you know or at least what you get maybe you know or at least what you get maybe you know or at least what you get maybe out of the first year out of the first year out of the first year but usually if your lifetime value um but usually if your lifetime value um but usually if your lifetime value um is well let's let's answer it in terms is well let's let's answer it in terms is well let's let's answer it in terms of that i'm curious to hear your of that i'm curious to hear your of that i'm curious to hear your thoughts thoughts thoughts and then i'll i'll check in yeah sure so and then i'll i'll check in yeah sure so and then i'll i'll check in yeah sure so i've heard lots of i've heard lots of i've heard lots of there's lots of information about this there's lots of information about this there's lots of information about this on the on the internet but on the on the internet but on the on the internet but generally speaking i'm happy to do sales generally speaking i'm happy to do sales generally speaking i'm happy to do sales calls i think up to 50 customers because calls i think up to 50 customers because calls i think up to 50 customers because the first customers you just need to the first customers you just need to the first customers you just need to learn what the hell is going on what do learn what the hell is going on what do learn what the hell is going on what do people think people think people think so i'll just speak to as many people as so i'll just speak to as many people as so i'll just speak to as many people as i can in the early days i can in the early days i can in the early days um if you read online they'll say it's um if you read online they'll say it's um if you read online they'll say it's very difficult to have a inside sales very difficult to have a inside sales very difficult to have a inside sales team if you're charging less than 250 team if you're charging less than 250 team if you're charging less than 250 a month um simply because you a month um simply because you a month um simply because you you know you need to pay people at least you know you need to pay people at least you know you need to pay people at least 80 000 a year and if they're living in a 80 000 a year and if they're living in a 80 000 a year and if they're living in a western country they need a certain western country they need a certain western country they need a certain salary salary salary they'll have a certain close rate and so

they'll have a certain close rate and so they'll have a certain close rate and so forth that has been my experience forth that has been my experience forth that has been my experience actually that it's quite hard to have actually that it's quite hard to have actually that it's quite hard to have a sas business with a sales team not a sas business with a sales team not a sas business with a sales team not just the founders doing the odd call but just the founders doing the odd call but just the founders doing the odd call but an actual sales team an actual sales team an actual sales team with uh less than you know 250 dollars a with uh less than you know 250 dollars a with uh less than you know 250 dollars a month so if you're selling for less than month so if you're selling for less than month so if you're selling for less than 250 250 250 a month then you need to do inbound a month then you need to do inbound a month then you need to do inbound marketing pretty much to acquire marketing pretty much to acquire marketing pretty much to acquire uh the bulk of your customers which is uh the bulk of your customers which is uh the bulk of your customers which is possible you just have to have a possible you just have to have a possible you just have to have a remarkable product that's the hard part remarkable product that's the hard part remarkable product that's the hard part yep exactly yeah that was something yep exactly yeah that was something yep exactly yeah that was something so you know in the early days of drip so you know in the early days of drip so you know in the early days of drip we especially in the early days we we especially in the early days we we especially in the early days we talked to anyone who would pay us talked to anyone who would pay us talked to anyone who would pay us a hundred dollars a month or more and a hundred dollars a month or more and a hundred dollars a month or more and it's to your point of we just wanted to it's to your point of we just wanted to it's to your point of we just wanted to have a bunch of conversations have a bunch of conversations have a bunch of conversations you know we were trying to to do that you know we were trying to to do that you know we were trying to to do that and i did it at first and then i handed and i did it at first and then i handed and i did it at first and then i handed it to our customer success person it to our customer success person it to our customer success person um but pretty quickly we realized it was um but pretty quickly we realized it was um but pretty quickly we realized it was we moved that up to 200 we moved that up to 200 we moved that up to 200 and then it it became 250 and then i and then it it became 250 and then i and then it it became 250 and then i believe we actually believe we actually believe we actually raised that later i don't remember i raised that later i don't remember i raised that later i don't remember i think if they would pay annually think if they would pay annually think if they would pay annually we would do 250 and if they um were we would do 250 and if they um were we would do 250 and if they um were going to be monthly it was like going to be monthly it was like going to be monthly it was like somewhere between three and 500 a month somewhere between three and 500 a month somewhere between three and 500 a month where and for us it was a subscriber where and for us it was a subscriber where and for us it was a subscriber count right once they're at count right once they're at count right once they're at xd 000 subscribers per month xd 000 subscribers per month xd 000 subscribers per month that's when it made sense and in my mind that's when it made sense and in my mind that's when it made sense and in my mind again in the early days if you're again in the early days if you're again in the early days if you're scratching and clawing scratching and clawing scratching and clawing and the you know your lifetime value is and the you know your lifetime value is and the you know your lifetime value is is three thousand is three thousand is three thousand uh you know so that's the total number uh you know so that's the total number uh you know so that's the total number they would months they would stick they would months they would stick they would months they would stick around times the monthly price they around times the monthly price they around times the monthly price they would pay you would pay you would pay you um that feels kind of reasonable but um that feels kind of reasonable but um that feels kind of reasonable but that makes no sense later on that makes no sense later on that makes no sense later on you know it that's just not enough money you know it that's just not enough money you know it that's just not enough money to as you know like you're saying to to as you know like you're saying to to as you know like you're saying to compensate sales people and build a full compensate sales people and build a full compensate sales people and build a full team out

team out team out at that point you got to be thinking at that point you got to be thinking at that point you got to be thinking about you know 10 10 000 about you know 10 10 000 about you know 10 10 000 25 000 lifetime values at a minimum to 25 000 lifetime values at a minimum to 25 000 lifetime values at a minimum to you know to really build this stuff out you know to really build this stuff out you know to really build this stuff out and i've also had a metric that i like and i've also had a metric that i like and i've also had a metric that i like is uh is uh is uh founders should be involved in selling founders should be involved in selling founders should be involved in selling at least until you're doing like a at least until you're doing like a at least until you're doing like a million dollars a year in sales or million dollars a year in sales or million dollars a year in sales or eighty thousand dollars a month for eighty thousand dollars a month for eighty thousand dollars a month for recurring revenue recurring revenue recurring revenue and which i i met kind of kind of and which i i met kind of kind of and which i i met kind of kind of resonates well with me that resonates well with me that resonates well with me that because until then you're still learning because until then you're still learning because until then you're still learning even the way up to a million dollars even the way up to a million dollars even the way up to a million dollars this is still so much learning even this is still so much learning even this is still so much learning even beyond that of course but beyond that of course but beyond that of course but really need to be in it for the for a really need to be in it for the for a really need to be in it for the for a while while while yeah how do you feel do you have any yeah how do you feel do you have any yeah how do you feel do you have any thoughts on sales compensation because thoughts on sales compensation because thoughts on sales compensation because that's often that's often that's often you know a question that i get it's like you know a question that i get it's like you know a question that i get it's like i'm hiring my first sales person i'm hiring my first sales person i'm hiring my first sales person and even if i take the advice and i hire and even if i take the advice and i hire and even if i take the advice and i hire two you know two you know two you know when i you know let's say i run a sas when i you know let's say i run a sas when i you know let's say i run a sas app and it's 250 a month for the bottom app and it's 250 a month for the bottom app and it's 250 a month for the bottom plan and then it's 500 and it's a plan and then it's 500 and it's a plan and then it's 500 and it's a thousand and there's no setup fee thousand and there's no setup fee thousand and there's no setup fee like how how do you how would you think like how how do you how would you think like how how do you how would you think about a v1 about a v1 about a v1 um of that as as we wrap up we have um of that as as we wrap up we have um of that as as we wrap up we have maybe just a couple couple more minutes maybe just a couple couple more minutes maybe just a couple couple more minutes left left left sure so the plans for early that well sure so the plans for early that well sure so the plans for early that well the early stage i've seen the early stage i've seen the early stage i've seen work uh 50 50 split so like a 50 work uh 50 50 split so like a 50 work uh 50 50 split so like a 50 kind of it's just a base monthly salary kind of it's just a base monthly salary kind of it's just a base monthly salary like a normal employer get and then 50 like a normal employer get and then 50 like a normal employer get and then 50 commission um i've seen that work commission um i've seen that work commission um i've seen that work relatively well as a company gets more relatively well as a company gets more relatively well as a company gets more mature you might want to change that mature you might want to change that mature you might want to change that commission percentage to like commission percentage to like commission percentage to like 30 or something like that uh the 30 or something like that uh the 30 or something like that uh the commission i've seen it vary but it commission i've seen it vary but it commission i've seen it vary but it might be as much might be as much might be as much as you know as you know as you know a third man not a third probably 20 of

a third man not a third probably 20 of a third man not a third probably 20 of their lifetime value or their lifetime value or their lifetime value or something like that or 20 or they can do something like that or 20 or they can do something like that or 20 or they can do 20 of the monthly recurring just paid 20 of the monthly recurring just paid 20 of the monthly recurring just paid on a rolling basis as long as the on a rolling basis as long as the on a rolling basis as long as the customer is with the business also that customer is with the business also that customer is with the business also that provides incentive for customer success provides incentive for customer success provides incentive for customer success and kind of you know the long-term and kind of you know the long-term and kind of you know the long-term health of the customer as well health of the customer as well health of the customer as well so that's the just the general the so that's the just the general the so that's the just the general the general numbers i've seen work well general numbers i've seen work well general numbers i've seen work well when you say 50 50 you mean if i was when you say 50 50 you mean if i was when you say 50 50 you mean if i was gonna if i wanted to pay a gonna if i wanted to pay a gonna if i wanted to pay a person a total of 72 000 a year person a total of 72 000 a year person a total of 72 000 a year that they would their base salary would that they would their base salary would that they would their base salary would be 36 000 and then they would have the be 36 000 and then they would have the be 36 000 and then they would have the opportunity to make up to 36 opportunity to make up to 36 opportunity to make up to 36 000 in sales commission exactly yeah 000 in sales commission exactly yeah 000 in sales commission exactly yeah but in reality if there's no cap which but in reality if there's no cap which but in reality if there's no cap which you probably shouldn't do in the early you probably shouldn't do in the early you probably shouldn't do in the early stage to incentivize then they could get stage to incentivize then they could get stage to incentivize then they could get more than that yeah more than that yeah more than that yeah right but it's kind of it's real it's right but it's kind of it's real it's right but it's kind of it's real it's pretty realistic pretty realistic pretty realistic that they can make um i'm just trying to that they can make um i'm just trying to that they can make um i'm just trying to do well it's 36. do well it's 36. do well it's 36. yeah it's pretty realistic they can make yeah it's pretty realistic they can make yeah it's pretty realistic they can make 3 dollars a month in commission 3 dollars a month in commission 3 dollars a month in commission they should hit that more often than not they should hit that more often than not they should hit that more often than not type thing okay type thing okay type thing okay well sir it's been great having you well sir it's been great having you well sir it's been great having you we're at the uh we're at the uh we're at the uh half hour mark as well i really half hour mark as well i really half hour mark as well i really appreciate everyone's participation and appreciate everyone's participation and appreciate everyone's participation and the questions coming in the questions coming in the questions coming in um folks can find you at um folks can find you at um folks can find you at john endegay on twitter john endegay on twitter john endegay on twitter and obviously youtube.com searching for and obviously youtube.com searching for and obviously youtube.com searching for your name your name your name anywhere else you want to plug no anywhere else you want to plug no anywhere else you want to plug no that's it good luck all right thanks that's it good luck all right thanks that's it good luck all right thanks john john john thanks for coming on today all right thanks for coming on today all right thanks for coming on today all right and as we head out i want to let you and as we head out i want to let you and as we head out i want to let you know microcomp remote that we did

know microcomp remote that we did know microcomp remote that we did last month you can get access to the last month you can get access to the last month you can get access to the video recordings at microconf video recordings at microconf video recordings at microconf remote dot com if you have a ticket remote dot com if you have a ticket remote dot com if you have a ticket uh if you had a ticket to remote those uh if you had a ticket to remote those uh if you had a ticket to remote those are included if you did not there is a are included if you did not there is a are included if you did not there is a small fee small fee small fee save the date for microconf europe save the date for microconf europe save the date for microconf europe october 3rd october 3rd october 3rd through 5th in dubrovnik croatia fingers through 5th in dubrovnik croatia fingers through 5th in dubrovnik croatia fingers crossed that we'll be able to do that i crossed that we'll be able to do that i crossed that we'll be able to do that i actually am about to have my second actually am about to have my second actually am about to have my second shot here in the next few weeks so shot here in the next few weeks so shot here in the next few weeks so thanks thanks thanks to so hopefully other folks you know to so hopefully other folks you know to so hopefully other folks you know will have shots by then and will have shots by then and will have shots by then and you know you can read on our you know you can read on our you know you can read on our microconf.com site microconf.com site microconf.com site all about um you know all about um you know all about um you know the precautions and such where we're the precautions and such where we're the precautions and such where we're taking around that event taking around that event taking around that event and we will uh adjust as we go thanks as and we will uh adjust as we go thanks as and we will uh adjust as we go thanks as always to hey always to hey always to hey and stripe that make everything we do and stripe that make everything we do and stripe that make everything we do just a little easier just a little easier just a little easier thanks so much for joining us today i'll thanks so much for joining us today i'll thanks so much for joining us today i'll see you see you see you in two weeks same time same place