8 B2B Marketing Strategies That Got My Startup to $10 Million (and 1 that FAILED)

finding marketing strategies that finding marketing strategies that actually move the needle when you're actually move the needle when you're actually move the needle when you're trying to grow a B2B startup can feel trying to grow a B2B startup can feel trying to grow a B2B startup can feel impossibly hard it's really easy to impossibly hard it's really easy to impossibly hard it's really easy to waste a ton of money and time chasing waste a ton of money and time chasing waste a ton of money and time chasing channels that don't work so in this channels that don't work so in this channels that don't work so in this video I'm chatting with Greg Deno about video I'm chatting with Greg Deno about video I'm chatting with Greg Deno about nine of the almost 20 strategies I list nine of the almost 20 strategies I list nine of the almost 20 strategies I list in the SAS Playbook he and his team used in the SAS Playbook he and his team used in the SAS Playbook he and his team used these strategies to drive growth at time these strategies to drive growth at time these strategies to drive growth at time doctor to over 10 million in annual doctor to over 10 million in annual doctor to over 10 million in annual recurring Revenue we talked nitty-gritty recurring Revenue we talked nitty-gritty recurring Revenue we talked nitty-gritty about how he applied the strategies and about how he applied the strategies and about how he applied the strategies and at what stage of the business as well as at what stage of the business as well as at what stage of the business as well as get his advice on what he sees working get his advice on what he sees working get his advice on what he sees working today and where you should start if today and where you should start if today and where you should start if you're early stage if you stick around you're early stage if you stick around you're early stage if you stick around till the end Greg tells us about the one till the end Greg tells us about the one till the end Greg tells us about the one strategy that didn't work and that he strategy that didn't work and that he strategy that didn't work and that he would avoid at all cost unless you're would avoid at all cost unless you're would avoid at all cost unless you're swimming in cash Greg thanks for joining swimming in cash Greg thanks for joining swimming in cash Greg thanks for joining me on the channel so just to set the me on the channel so just to set the me on the channel so just to set the table a bit can you tell us about time table a bit can you tell us about time table a bit can you tell us about time doctor and the role you played there doctor and the role you played there doctor and the role you played there yeah so I was uh the third marketing yeah so I was uh the third marketing yeah so I was uh the third marketing person in at the company and uh the person in at the company and uh the person in at the company and uh the funny thing about that was um I didn't funny thing about that was um I didn't funny thing about that was um I didn't really have a role other than get users really have a role other than get users really have a role other than get users and uh it was it was honestly kind of and uh it was it was honestly kind of and uh it was it was honestly kind of the most fun I've had in my entire the most fun I've had in my entire the most fun I've had in my entire career like you it was like we had no career like you it was like we had no career like you it was like we had no money we had no limits it was just the money we had no limits it was just the money we had no limits it was just the only limit was everything we had to do only limit was everything we had to do only limit was everything we had to do had to be free because we couldn't spend had to be free because we couldn't spend had to be free because we couldn't spend anything and um yeah so it's just go get anything and um yeah so it's just go get anything and um yeah so it's just go get users and that was it and it was a lot users and that was it and it was a lot users and that was it and it was a lot of it was a blast it's so it sounds like of it was a blast it's so it sounds like of it was a blast it's so it sounds like you tried a lot of marketing strategies you tried a lot of marketing strategies you tried a lot of marketing strategies and you know I have a I have a book and you know I have a I have a book and you know I have a I have a book called The SAS Playbook and I have 20 called The SAS Playbook and I have 20 called The SAS Playbook and I have 20 marketing strategies that uh that I marketing strategies that uh that I marketing strategies that uh that I include in there and I tend to bucket

include in there and I tend to bucket include in there and I tend to bucket them or categorize them based on three them or categorize them based on three them or categorize them based on three factors like the speed how how fast they factors like the speed how how fast they factors like the speed how how fast they work like so like cold outbound is often work like so like cold outbound is often work like so like cold outbound is often faster than SEO for example and there's faster than SEO for example and there's faster than SEO for example and there's the the cost whether it's purely the the cost whether it's purely the the cost whether it's purely Financial or the time it takes Y and Financial or the time it takes Y and Financial or the time it takes Y and then scalability because some things then scalability because some things then scalability because some things like a product launch you can only do like a product launch you can only do like a product launch you can only do once versus SEO and content is like once versus SEO and content is like once versus SEO and content is like highly highly scalable yep so with that highly highly scalable yep so with that highly highly scalable yep so with that framework in mine I'd love to walk framework in mine I'd love to walk framework in mine I'd love to walk through your list of approaches that you through your list of approaches that you through your list of approaches that you tried and then talk briefly about you tried and then talk briefly about you tried and then talk briefly about you know the tactics and and maybe put those know the tactics and and maybe put those know the tactics and and maybe put those three factors uh the three vectors over three factors uh the three vectors over three factors uh the three vectors over those so talk us through the first one those so talk us through the first one those so talk us through the first one like where did you get started we like where did you get started we like where did you get started we stumbled into uh SEO uh we kind of wrote stumbled into uh SEO uh we kind of wrote stumbled into uh SEO uh we kind of wrote one of those like traditional one of those like traditional one of those like traditional alternative posts that you see like uh alternative posts that you see like uh alternative posts that you see like uh toggle was one of our key competitors so toggle was one of our key competitors so toggle was one of our key competitors so we wrote like toggle Alternatives and um we wrote like toggle Alternatives and um we wrote like toggle Alternatives and um within a couple of weeks it was pretty within a couple of weeks it was pretty within a couple of weeks it was pretty quick we were like oh wow this post got quick we were like oh wow this post got quick we were like oh wow this post got us a user and then it was like oh this us a user and then it was like oh this us a user and then it was like oh this post got us two users because we ranked post got us two users because we ranked post got us two users because we ranked it higher it ranked higher and so on and it higher it ranked higher and so on and it higher it ranked higher and so on and so forth so we just basically kept so forth so we just basically kept so forth so we just basically kept rewriting these Alternatives posts we rewriting these Alternatives posts we rewriting these Alternatives posts we didn't know any better like they weren't didn't know any better like they weren't didn't know any better like they weren't all that exciting they weren't like all that exciting they weren't like all that exciting they weren't like going to Brand us as thought leaders or going to Brand us as thought leaders or going to Brand us as thought leaders or anything but they just printed money so anything but they just printed money so anything but they just printed money so every time we'd write one we'd get two every time we'd write one we'd get two every time we'd write one we'd get two three users a month like if you're if three users a month like if you're if three users a month like if you're if you're at like let's say a thousand you're at like let's say a thousand you're at like let's say a thousand users like getting one user is probably users like getting one user is probably users like getting one user is probably you're you're not going to care but if you're you're not going to care but if you're you're not going to care but if you're at like 10 20 30 users getting you're at like 10 20 30 users getting you're at like 10 20 30 users getting that one user is probably fast for you that one user is probably fast for you that one user is probably fast for you so like it it takes weeks it does not so like it it takes weeks it does not so like it it takes weeks it does not take long at all if you if you are able take long at all if you if you are able take long at all if you if you are able to like kind of write it well structure to like kind of write it well structure to like kind of write it well structure it well well build a couple links it well well build a couple links it well well build a couple links through guest posting or whatever and

through guest posting or whatever and through guest posting or whatever and then um yeah you could get start getting then um yeah you could get start getting then um yeah you could get start getting a couple users in weeks that's really a couple users in weeks that's really a couple users in weeks that's really nice so the speed is a lot shorter than nice so the speed is a lot shorter than nice so the speed is a lot shorter than someone might think and it sounds like someone might think and it sounds like someone might think and it sounds like the cost wasn't tremendous because it the cost wasn't tremendous because it the cost wasn't tremendous because it was time but it was time to write time was time but it was time to write time was time but it was time to write time to write the post and time to write a to write the post and time to write a to write the post and time to write a couple guest posts and that's it yep couple guest posts and that's it yep couple guest posts and that's it yep right right and the scalability would be right right and the scalability would be right right and the scalability would be high on that yeah we wrote We if you go high on that yeah we wrote We if you go high on that yeah we wrote We if you go on the time Dr blog there's 50 60 of on the time Dr blog there's 50 60 of on the time Dr blog there's 50 60 of these posts because they're just they're these posts because they're just they're these posts because they're just they're just money makers yep and so talk about just money makers yep and so talk about just money makers yep and so talk about how I believe that then LED you into how I believe that then LED you into how I believe that then LED you into link building yeah so we would hire link link building yeah so we would hire link link building yeah so we would hire link Builders as fast as possible because we Builders as fast as possible because we Builders as fast as possible because we knew that every time uh we hired a link knew that every time uh we hired a link knew that every time uh we hired a link Builder it meant our contact was going Builder it meant our contact was going Builder it meant our contact was going to rank faster so you like we had like a to rank faster so you like we had like a to rank faster so you like we had like a flywheel like we didn't call it a flywheel like we didn't call it a flywheel like we didn't call it a flywheel then because this was like 2015 flywheel then because this was like 2015 flywheel then because this was like 2015 and I don't know if the term flywheel and I don't know if the term flywheel and I don't know if the term flywheel was a big thing then but like our was a big thing then but like our was a big thing then but like our flywheel would be like higher link flywheel would be like higher link flywheel would be like higher link Builder get users higher link Builder Builder get users higher link Builder Builder get users higher link Builder and that was like our that was our and that was like our that was our and that was like our that was our flywheel for a while um you know and flywheel for a while um you know and flywheel for a while um you know and then it was like get users hire content then it was like get users hire content then it was like get users hire content writer hire link Builder get more users writer hire link Builder get more users writer hire link Builder get more users and like that was it for and we did that and like that was it for and we did that and like that was it for and we did that for for years and you at some point you for for years and you at some point you for for years and you at some point you had six or eight people who just had six or eight people who just had six or eight people who just building links that's crazy yeah and and building links that's crazy yeah and and building links that's crazy yeah and and so because and they were each I I so because and they were each I I so because and they were each I I believe you you talked about like each believe you you talked about like each believe you you talked about like each link Builder could get 10 or 15 links link Builder could get 10 or 15 links link Builder could get 10 or 15 links per month so it sounds very time per month so it sounds very time per month so it sounds very time intensive if you had full-time people intensive if you had full-time people intensive if you had full-time people only you know I say only in my head link only you know I say only in my head link only you know I say only in my head link building is is a lot more complicated building is is a lot more complicated building is is a lot more complicated than it used to to be right yes it is than it used to to be right yes it is than it used to to be right yes it is now for sure it was like when we started

now for sure it was like when we started now for sure it was like when we started it wasn't as complicated but it got it wasn't as complicated but it got it wasn't as complicated but it got complic more and more complicated over complic more and more complicated over complic more and more complicated over time and the link Builders had kpis that time and the link Builders had kpis that time and the link Builders had kpis that they had to reach not only in terms of they had to reach not only in terms of they had to reach not only in terms of like number quantity of links but also like number quantity of links but also like number quantity of links but also quality of links so we had like metrics quality of links so we had like metrics quality of links so we had like metrics to determine how how good is this link to determine how how good is this link to determine how how good is this link so like it was very much a well-run so like it was very much a well-run so like it was very much a well-run organization just within that because we organization just within that because we organization just within that because we just valued it so highly when I left in just valued it so highly when I left in just valued it so highly when I left in 2021 it was 400,000 visitors a month 2021 it was 400,000 visitors a month 2021 it was 400,000 visitors a month yeah unbelievable so obviously massively yeah unbelievable so obviously massively yeah unbelievable so obviously massively scal if we go back to my you know speed scal if we go back to my you know speed scal if we go back to my you know speed cost and scalability massively scalable cost and scalability massively scalable cost and scalability massively scalable when I left we were spending 40,000 a when I left we were spending 40,000 a when I left we were spending 40,000 a month in SEO content got it but you had month in SEO content got it but you had month in SEO content got it but you had built up to that yeah yeah for sure we built up to that yeah yeah for sure we built up to that yeah yeah for sure we started at one article a month or one started at one article a month or one started at one article a month or one article a week and then with two to article a week and then with two to article a week and then with two to three links a month like and then it three links a month like and then it three links a month like and then it built up just built it built up I think built up just built it built up I think built up just built it built up I think of it like so I have this thing called of it like so I have this thing called of it like so I have this thing called the stairstep method of Entrepreneurship the stairstep method of Entrepreneurship the stairstep method of Entrepreneurship where you kind of build one product and where you kind of build one product and where you kind of build one product and then you take the revenue from that to then you take the revenue from that to then you take the revenue from that to build the next to build the next in build the next to build the next in build the next to build the next in essence you were stair stepping your way essence you were stair stepping your way essence you were stair stepping your way up in terms of marketing spend yeah for up in terms of marketing spend yeah for up in terms of marketing spend yeah for sure absolutely yep so that was content sure absolutely yep so that was content sure absolutely yep so that was content and Link building uh you also I know did and Link building uh you also I know did and Link building uh you also I know did a lot of integration Partnerships can a lot of integration Partnerships can a lot of integration Partnerships can you tell us like how that worked so we you tell us like how that worked so we you tell us like how that worked so we would do a couple things we would do the would do a couple things we would do the would do a couple things we would do the Integrations with that had to be there Integrations with that had to be there Integrations with that had to be there so for instance we had to do a a base so for instance we had to do a a base so for instance we had to do a a base camp integration because our users camp integration because our users camp integration because our users expected a base camp integration but if expected a base camp integration but if expected a base camp integration but if you do a base camp integration they you do a base camp integration they you do a base camp integration they actually don't really care like if I actually don't really care like if I actually don't really care like if I were to email Jason freed if like like were to email Jason freed if like like were to email Jason freed if like like hey we did a base camp integration You' hey we did a base camp integration You' hey we did a base camp integration You' be like oh that's so cute thanks be like oh that's so cute thanks be like oh that's so cute thanks whatever but then like you if you could

whatever but then like you if you could whatever but then like you if you could play this more strategically and you do play this more strategically and you do play this more strategically and you do an integration with a company who's an integration with a company who's an integration with a company who's about your size so we did one with a a about your size so we did one with a a about your size so we did one with a a company called workflow Max a great company called workflow Max a great company called workflow Max a great company but at the time they were about company but at the time they were about company but at the time they were about our size we actually worked with them our size we actually worked with them our size we actually worked with them with their marketing team with their Dev with their marketing team with their Dev with their marketing team with their Dev team in order to build one a more team in order to build one a more team in order to build one a more comprehensive integration but two a just comprehensive integration but two a just comprehensive integration but two a just a a like a marketing launch with them a a like a marketing launch with them a a like a marketing launch with them and um so we did both and um so we did both and um so we did both um workflow Max in terms of like do um workflow Max in terms of like do um workflow Max in terms of like do people actually use the time doctor people actually use the time doctor people actually use the time doctor workflow Max maybe maybe not I don't workflow Max maybe maybe not I don't workflow Max maybe maybe not I don't know but we got a lot of users because know but we got a lot of users because know but we got a lot of users because of that integration and because of that of that integration and because of that of that integration and because of that partnership got it that's perfect so I I partnership got it that's perfect so I I partnership got it that's perfect so I I talk a lot about uh I coin this phrase talk a lot about uh I coin this phrase talk a lot about uh I coin this phrase integration marketing which is not that integration marketing which is not that integration marketing which is not that it's a pretty generic phrase but it's it's a pretty generic phrase but it's it's a pretty generic phrase but it's the idea your Integrations not only can the idea your Integrations not only can the idea your Integrations not only can serve your existing customers but they serve your existing customers but they serve your existing customers but they can be marketable events and I first saw can be marketable events and I first saw can be marketable events and I first saw Ruben Gomez doing this with bid sketch Ruben Gomez doing this with bid sketch Ruben Gomez doing this with bid sketch years ago he's now the found a Sewell years ago he's now the found a Sewell years ago he's now the found a Sewell and the first time I did integration and the first time I did integration and the first time I did integration marketing myself I believe was either marketing myself I believe was either marketing myself I believe was either 2011 or 2012 and it was with a sasap I 2011 or 2012 and it was with a sasap I 2011 or 2012 and it was with a sasap I had called Hit tail and I I came to the had called Hit tail and I I came to the had called Hit tail and I I came to the exact same conclusion you did is that if exact same conclusion you did is that if exact same conclusion you did is that if integration partner was a lot larger integration partner was a lot larger integration partner was a lot larger they didn't care and if they were they didn't care and if they were they didn't care and if they were approximately the same and they could be approximately the same and they could be approximately the same and they could be smaller they could be a little bigger smaller they could be a little bigger smaller they could be a little bigger right a little smaller a little bigger right a little smaller a little bigger right a little smaller a little bigger within like 20% like they were usually within like 20% like they were usually within like 20% like they were usually pretty in terms of user growth not not pretty in terms of user growth not not pretty in terms of user growth not not necessarily mrr but in terms of like necessarily mrr but in terms of like necessarily mrr but in terms of like users they they cared yeah for sure users they they cared yeah for sure users they they cared yeah for sure right and and the idea is you want to right and and the idea is you want to right and and the idea is you want to get mentioned on their integration page get mentioned on their integration page get mentioned on their integration page or an app Marketplace whatever they have

or an app Marketplace whatever they have or an app Marketplace whatever they have get a try to get a guest post on their get a try to get a guest post on their get a try to get a guest post on their site C try to do a joint announcement site C try to do a joint announcement site C try to do a joint announcement via email maybe a webinar these yeah so via email maybe a webinar these yeah so via email maybe a webinar these yeah so we would so we would do all that we we would so we would do all that we we would so we would do all that we would do webinar we would do a email would do webinar we would do a email would do webinar we would do a email blast to like we would email like blast to like we would email like blast to like we would email like workflow Max would email about time workflow Max would email about time workflow Max would email about time doctor we'd email about workflow Max we doctor we'd email about workflow Max we doctor we'd email about workflow Max we be on the workflow Max integration page be on the workflow Max integration page be on the workflow Max integration page that which would drive some signups uh that which would drive some signups uh that which would drive some signups uh but you know not too many but you know but you know not too many but you know but you know not too many but you know it was it was enough at the time where it was it was enough at the time where it was it was enough at the time where it was like this is kind of moving the it was like this is kind of moving the it was like this is kind of moving the needle and we just kind of stacked these needle and we just kind of stacked these needle and we just kind of stacked these little winds over and over and over little winds over and over and over little winds over and over and over again and that's the way to think about again and that's the way to think about again and that's the way to think about it I've done a lot of integration it I've done a lot of integration it I've done a lot of integration marketing because with my last startup marketing because with my last startup marketing because with my last startup drip I think we did 30 something 35 drip I think we did 30 something 35 drip I think we did 30 something 35 Integrations in the span of about 18 Integrations in the span of about 18 Integrations in the span of about 18 months and a big part of that was that months and a big part of that was that months and a big part of that was that it became kind of a flywheel for us and it became kind of a flywheel for us and it became kind of a flywheel for us and everything you said that you asked for everything you said that you asked for everything you said that you asked for we did in addition we would asked for we did in addition we would asked for we did in addition we would asked for like there was you know some people have like there was you know some people have like there was you know some people have inap announcements of like here's a new inap announcements of like here's a new inap announcements of like here's a new feature we'd ask for that we'd ask for a feature we'd ask for that we'd ask for a feature we'd ask for that we'd ask for a KB article and we would reciprocate you KB article and we would reciprocate you KB article and we would reciprocate you know it's anything that the two of you know it's anything that the two of you know it's anything that the two of you can reciprocate we weren't smart enough can reciprocate we weren't smart enough can reciprocate we weren't smart enough to ask for inapp announcements and to ask for inapp announcements and to ask for inapp announcements and things like that at the time we just things like that at the time we just things like that at the time we just yeah it was we didn't know better and yeah it was we didn't know better and yeah it was we didn't know better and you also mentioned webinars in there as you also mentioned webinars in there as you also mentioned webinars in there as a potential with integration Partners a potential with integration Partners a potential with integration Partners did you use those solely within did you use those solely within did you use those solely within Integrations or did you do webinars with Integrations or did you do webinars with Integrations or did you do webinars with just thirdparty folks as well who might just thirdparty folks as well who might just thirdparty folks as well who might have a complimentary audience we both uh have a complimentary audience we both uh have a complimentary audience we both uh we did them a lot with third parties we did them a lot with third parties we did them a lot with third parties with complimentary audiences yeah it with complimentary audiences yeah it with complimentary audiences yeah it kind of goes into like more partnership kind of goes into like more partnership kind of goes into like more partnership so people go to like somebody like tral so people go to like somebody like tral so people go to like somebody like tral or something like that and we would do or something like that and we would do or something like that and we would do an email blast with tral like again they an email blast with tral like again they an email blast with tral like again they we they they had a complimentary remote we they they had a complimentary remote we they they had a complimentary remote work audience uh but we didn't have to

work audience uh but we didn't have to work audience uh but we didn't have to build an integration which was nice build an integration which was nice build an integration which was nice because the dev team was happy with that because the dev team was happy with that because the dev team was happy with that uh less work for them but we would just uh less work for them but we would just uh less work for them but we would just go to them and be like hey do you want go to them and be like hey do you want go to them and be like hey do you want to do this email blast to your audience to do this email blast to your audience to do this email blast to your audience we'll do it to our audience and then hey we'll do it to our audience and then hey we'll do it to our audience and then hey do you want to do a webinar this month do you want to do a webinar this month do you want to do a webinar this month with them and they be like yeah sure the with them and they be like yeah sure the with them and they be like yeah sure the the email blast work great let's do the the email blast work great let's do the the email blast work great let's do the webinar and so yeah we would just webinar and so yeah we would just webinar and so yeah we would just combine all these like again stack these combine all these like again stack these combine all these like again stack these just Partnerships up yeah I actually just Partnerships up yeah I actually just Partnerships up yeah I actually group in in the SAS Playbook I group group in in the SAS Playbook I group group in in the SAS Playbook I group Integrations and Partnerships as kind of Integrations and Partnerships as kind of Integrations and Partnerships as kind of one marketing approach because a one marketing approach because a one marketing approach because a partnership doesn't need an integration partnership doesn't need an integration partnership doesn't need an integration but if you add the integration on but but if you add the integration on but but if you add the integration on but it's all it's it's about the JV aspect it's all it's it's about the JV aspect it's all it's it's about the JV aspect of it right the joint venture for sure of it right the joint venture for sure of it right the joint venture for sure and I think one of the biggest mistakes and I think one of the biggest mistakes and I think one of the biggest mistakes is that that I see SAS companies make is is that that I see SAS companies make is is that that I see SAS companies make is like they do the first part they'll like like they do the first part they'll like like they do the first part they'll like they'll do the integration partnership they'll do the integration partnership they'll do the integration partnership and then the end the relationship but and then the end the relationship but and then the end the relationship but like that's just the start of the like that's just the start of the like that's just the start of the relationship and like three four you relationship and like three four you relationship and like three four you could could rehash these Partnerships could could rehash these Partnerships could could rehash these Partnerships three every 3 to six months whatever three every 3 to six months whatever three every 3 to six months whatever your Cadence is is up to you and the your Cadence is is up to you and the your Cadence is is up to you and the partner but it's that's just like once partner but it's that's just like once partner but it's that's just like once you build the integration that's just you build the integration that's just you build the integration that's just the start of it or once you do that the start of it or once you do that the start of it or once you do that first email blast that's just a start first email blast that's just a start first email blast that's just a start you just keep Recycling and and keep you just keep Recycling and and keep you just keep Recycling and and keep making friends with these people like making friends with these people like making friends with these people like it's extremely scalable because you're it's extremely scalable because you're it's extremely scalable because you're just as they're growing and you're just as they're growing and you're just as they're growing and you're growing you guys grow together you don't growing you guys grow together you don't growing you guys grow together you don't have to constantly keep finding new have to constantly keep finding new have to constantly keep finding new partners you just find 10 15 20 of them partners you just find 10 15 20 of them partners you just find 10 15 20 of them and and you're good for years I know I and and you're good for years I know I and and you're good for years I know I mean we're kind of hinting at leveraging mean we're kind of hinting at leveraging mean we're kind of hinting at leveraging other people's audiences right or other other people's audiences right or other other people's audiences right or other companies audiences and and doing these companies audiences and and doing these companies audiences and and doing these joint ventures and I know that in joint ventures and I know that in joint ventures and I know that in addition to webinars that you did uh you

addition to webinars that you did uh you addition to webinars that you did uh you leveraged them through email leveraged them through email leveraged them through email Partnerships and podcasts you want to Partnerships and podcasts you want to Partnerships and podcasts you want to talk through how those two worked uh so talk through how those two worked uh so talk through how those two worked uh so the email Partnerships are we would just the email Partnerships are we would just the email Partnerships are we would just say very quickly like hey train just say very quickly like hey train just say very quickly like hey train just email about time doctor we'll email email about time doctor we'll email email about time doctor we'll email about trainual and that's it and then we about trainual and that's it and then we about trainual and that's it and then we just write quick Copy email and and they just write quick Copy email and and they just write quick Copy email and and they send it to their users we'll send it to send it to their users we'll send it to send it to their users we'll send it to their users and you can get like a their users and you can get like a their users and you can get like a significant number of Trials um I don't significant number of Trials um I don't significant number of Trials um I don't want to say I forgot if I don't want to want to say I forgot if I don't want to want to say I forgot if I don't want to say 10% cuz that sounds way high but I say 10% cuz that sounds way high but I say 10% cuz that sounds way high but I forgot the exact but we would get like forgot the exact but we would get like forgot the exact but we would get like 5% of their users to become trials now 5% of their users to become trials now 5% of their users to become trials now whether they converted into clients or whether they converted into clients or whether they converted into clients or users is uh paid members is a different users is uh paid members is a different users is uh paid members is a different story um but we would get a significant story um but we would get a significant story um but we would get a significant number of Trials very quickly and then number of Trials very quickly and then number of Trials very quickly and then with with with with with with podcasts uh so we had Liam uh our our podcasts uh so we had Liam uh our our podcasts uh so we had Liam uh our our co-founder CMO he was on a podcast like co-founder CMO he was on a podcast like co-founder CMO he was on a podcast like once a day for nine months it was it was once a day for nine months it was it was once a day for nine months it was it was crazy stupid and uh he burnt out but crazy stupid and uh he burnt out but crazy stupid and uh he burnt out but what we saw was what we saw was brand what we saw was what we saw was brand what we saw was what we saw was brand mentions going up um I don't know how mentions going up um I don't know how mentions going up um I don't know how that relates to oh we increased user our that relates to oh we increased user our that relates to oh we increased user our user base by x i I don't think that was user base by x i I don't think that was user base by x i I don't think that was there's any real metric there that we there's any real metric there that we there's any real metric there that we could have attested to it but we did see could have attested to it but we did see could have attested to it but we did see like you know more people searching for like you know more people searching for like you know more people searching for time doctor as as he was doing more more time doctor as as he was doing more more time doctor as as he was doing more more podcasts yeah podcast can be hard to podcasts yeah podcast can be hard to podcasts yeah podcast can be hard to attribute but I've seen similar results attribute but I've seen similar results attribute but I've seen similar results especially here's the thing it's hard especially here's the thing it's hard especially here's the thing it's hard with SAS because especially if you have with SAS because especially if you have with SAS because especially if you have a high volume SAS you don't see the you a high volume SAS you don't see the you a high volume SAS you don't see the you know the the bump I see it more with know the the bump I see it more with know the the bump I see it more with again I sell I have written four books again I sell I have written four books again I sell I have written four books and some of my books like the start

and some of my books like the start and some of my books like the start small stay small that's 15 years old it small stay small that's 15 years old it small stay small that's 15 years old it only it sells 100 200 copies a month only it sells 100 200 copies a month only it sells 100 200 copies a month right now so if there's a blip I see it right now so if there's a blip I see it right now so if there's a blip I see it I mean even if there's like a 20 you I mean even if there's like a 20 you I mean even if there's like a 20 you know if a podcast comes out I'll see oh know if a podcast comes out I'll see oh know if a podcast comes out I'll see oh I sold like 30 copies of a book that day I sold like 30 copies of a book that day I sold like 30 copies of a book that day SAS playbooks a little harder cuz it's SAS playbooks a little harder cuz it's SAS playbooks a little harder cuz it's still still like 1,200 a month so it's still still like 1,200 a month so it's still still like 1,200 a month so it's the blip has to be pretty hefty but the blip has to be pretty hefty but the blip has to be pretty hefty but podcast being mentioned on YouTube podcast being mentioned on YouTube podcast being mentioned on YouTube channels uh I'll see a viral tweet go channels uh I'll see a viral tweet go channels uh I'll see a viral tweet go you know recommending my book or you know recommending my book or you know recommending my book or whatever it's a little easier to see but whatever it's a little easier to see but whatever it's a little easier to see but there just cuz you can't attribute it there just cuz you can't attribute it there just cuz you can't attribute it doesn't mean it's not moving the needle doesn't mean it's not moving the needle doesn't mean it's not moving the needle and this is a hard thing as a marketer and this is a hard thing as a marketer and this is a hard thing as a marketer it's just it's just so hard yeah it's it's just it's just so hard yeah it's it's just it's just so hard yeah it's hard to it's hard to yeah it's just hard to it's hard to yeah it's just hard to it's hard to yeah it's just really hard to understand like how it really hard to understand like how it really hard to understand like how it works in terms of like the mechanism works in terms of like the mechanism works in terms of like the mechanism that says you know is somebody listening that says you know is somebody listening that says you know is somebody listening to Lam about remote work and being or to Lam about remote work and being or to Lam about remote work and being or you about your book and be like oh let's you about your book and be like oh let's you about your book and be like oh let's go find the SAS play book I don't know go find the SAS play book I don't know go find the SAS play book I don't know but but you know they've probably seen but but you know they've probably seen but but you know they've probably seen emails about it and then they've seen emails about it and then they've seen emails about it and then they've seen other people tweet about it and they've other people tweet about it and they've other people tweet about it and they've probably heard it someplace else and probably heard it someplace else and probably heard it someplace else and then it's like oh you know what I hear then it's like oh you know what I hear then it's like oh you know what I hear this book all the time let's go buy it this book all the time let's go buy it this book all the time let's go buy it or I hear this app about this app all or I hear this app about this app all or I hear this app about this app all the time let's see what it's about right the time let's see what it's about right the time let's see what it's about right and that's the balance as a marketer is and that's the balance as a marketer is and that's the balance as a marketer is like I'm much more of a direct response like I'm much more of a direct response like I'm much more of a direct response marketer I think you are as well where I marketer I think you are as well where I marketer I think you are as well where I want to see results and be able to want to see results and be able to want to see results and be able to attribute as much as I can it's just attribute as much as I can it's just attribute as much as I can it's just harder and harder these days and so I harder and harder these days and so I harder and harder these days and so I take a balance with like look I'm not take a balance with like look I'm not take a balance with like look I'm not going to do all brand marketing like going to do all brand marketing like going to do all brand marketing like Coca-Cola and bror right it's not going Coca-Cola and bror right it's not going Coca-Cola and bror right it's not going to work for startups like us for to work for startups like us for to work for startups like us for bootstrappers but I also can't be so bootstrappers but I also can't be so bootstrappers but I also can't be so hung up on attribution that everything hung up on attribution that everything hung up on attribution that everything needs to be 100% attributed or I don't needs to be 100% attributed or I don't needs to be 100% attributed or I don't do it and this is an example of of one do it and this is an example of of one do it and this is an example of of one of those so in a minute I want to talk

of those so in a minute I want to talk of those so in a minute I want to talk about where you would start today if you about where you would start today if you about where you would start today if you were starting over from scratch but were starting over from scratch but were starting over from scratch but before we do that I want to cover the before we do that I want to cover the before we do that I want to cover the last two strategies which are among the last two strategies which are among the last two strategies which are among the most common that I see Founders most common that I see Founders most common that I see Founders leveraging and these are paid ads and leveraging and these are paid ads and leveraging and these are paid ads and cold Outreach or outbound sales talk us cold Outreach or outbound sales talk us cold Outreach or outbound sales talk us through how you use those all right So through how you use those all right So through how you use those all right So Paid ads just they're hard they're a lot Paid ads just they're hard they're a lot Paid ads just they're hard they're a lot harder than you think and it's not harder than you think and it's not harder than you think and it's not because you can't get users to sign up because you can't get users to sign up because you can't get users to sign up the hard part is um getting the what are the hard part is um getting the what are the hard part is um getting the what are the cool kids calling it a row ads today the cool kids calling it a row ads today the cool kids calling it a row ads today the hard part is getting return on ad the hard part is getting return on ad the hard part is getting return on ad spend yeah return on ad spend uh instead spend yeah return on ad spend uh instead spend yeah return on ad spend uh instead of Roi but like in a in back getting of Roi but like in a in back getting of Roi but like in a in back getting that payback in in a short amount of that payback in in a short amount of that payback in in a short amount of time so so if you're if you're getting time so so if you're if you're getting time so so if you're if you're getting your payback in six or eight months as a your payback in six or eight months as a your payback in six or eight months as a bootstrapped entrepreneur you're you're bootstrapped entrepreneur you're you're bootstrapped entrepreneur you're you're going to be out of business very quickly going to be out of business very quickly going to be out of business very quickly um you just can't keep spending ads so um you just can't keep spending ads so um you just can't keep spending ads so uh the hard part is getting that payback uh the hard part is getting that payback uh the hard part is getting that payback to be two months maybe three at the most to be two months maybe three at the most to be two months maybe three at the most your my Ruth th for True bootstrappers your my Ruth th for True bootstrappers your my Ruth th for True bootstrappers is 2 to four months and if they have if is 2 to four months and if they have if is 2 to four months and if they have if they're kind of tiny seat funded they they're kind of tiny seat funded they they're kind of tiny seat funded they have a bit of money in the bank let's have a bit of money in the bank let's have a bit of money in the bank let's say low six figures 100 200 Grand I say say low six figures 100 200 Grand I say say low six figures 100 200 Grand I say you can get out to about six or seven you can get out to about six or seven you can get out to about six or seven that's where I got with with drip cuz I that's where I got with with drip cuz I that's where I got with with drip cuz I knew our numbers so well but you're knew our numbers so well but you're knew our numbers so well but you're right if you're bootstrapped you're right if you're bootstrapped you're right if you're bootstrapped you're trying to get six or eight months of trying to get six or eight months of trying to get six or eight months of payback oo it wrecks that wrecks your payback oo it wrecks that wrecks your payback oo it wrecks that wrecks your cash flow so we didn't go hardcore in cash flow so we didn't go hardcore in cash flow so we didn't go hardcore in ads until we we were 78 million ARR like ads until we we were 78 million ARR like ads until we we were 78 million ARR like we we were playing around with it uh in we we were playing around with it uh in we we were playing around with it uh in the low seven figures but until we got the low seven figures but until we got the low seven figures but until we got to like but we didn't turn them on until to like but we didn't turn them on until to like but we didn't turn them on until 78 because we need we knew we were going 78 because we need we knew we were going 78 because we need we knew we were going to spend half a million dollars just to

to spend half a million dollars just to to spend half a million dollars just to get that just to dial in that spend to get that just to dial in that spend to get that just to dial in that spend to get to two three like two three months get to two three like two three months get to two three like two three months um it's that's how it just takes a while um it's that's how it just takes a while um it's that's how it just takes a while with the between the creative and the with the between the creative and the with the between the creative and the the paying Google and Facebook and all the paying Google and Facebook and all the paying Google and Facebook and all that uh just an expensive uh Venture uh that uh just an expensive uh Venture uh that uh just an expensive uh Venture uh the other thing we did try we took thing the other thing we did try we took thing the other thing we did try we took thing from uh what's what's the click is it from uh what's what's the click is it from uh what's what's the click is it clickfunnels so we tried to do the thing clickfunnels so we tried to do the thing clickfunnels so we tried to do the thing where it was like oh we're going to run where it was like oh we're going to run where it was like oh we're going to run ads to a course and then upsell the ads to a course and then upsell the ads to a course and then upsell the product after that uh we did not get product after that uh we did not get product after that uh we did not get that to work I don't I think you should that to work I don't I think you should that to work I don't I think you should try it but it was just something that we try it but it was just something that we try it but it was just something that we didn't get to work we found the turn to didn't get to work we found the turn to didn't get to work we found the turn to be super high uh from those folks so we be super high uh from those folks so we be super high uh from those folks so we we abandon that but um but yeah so it's we abandon that but um but yeah so it's we abandon that but um but yeah so it's definitely something where where will definitely something where where will definitely something where where will offset to spend as um for you yeah we've offset to spend as um for you yeah we've offset to spend as um for you yeah we've had a tiny SE company try that and also had a tiny SE company try that and also had a tiny SE company try that and also not able to make it work similar results not able to make it work similar results not able to make it work similar results the people who were buying the course the people who were buying the course the people who were buying the course were like super aspirational Y like and were like super aspirational Y like and were like super aspirational Y like and then but we want the people with a then but we want the people with a then but we want the people with a minimum of 10 uh companies with a minimum of 10 uh companies with a minimum of 10 uh companies with a minimum of like five to 10 seats right minimum of like five to 10 seats right minimum of like five to 10 seats right and so they're less likely to buy a and so they're less likely to buy a and so they're less likely to buy a course exactly those those folks are not course exactly those those folks are not course exactly those those folks are not buying a course like the CEO founder of buying a course like the CEO founder of buying a course like the CEO founder of a five even a five person company just a five even a five person company just a five even a five person company just doesn't have time to sit through a doesn't have time to sit through a doesn't have time to sit through a two-hour course sure and so talk to me two-hour course sure and so talk to me two-hour course sure and so talk to me about cold Outreach outbound sales did about cold Outreach outbound sales did about cold Outreach outbound sales did that come later that was doing 10 to 20 that come later that was doing 10 to 20 that come later that was doing 10 to 20 to maybe even 40 seats per company to 2 to maybe even 40 seats per company to 2 to maybe even 40 seats per company to 2 to 400 seats which is a very different to 400 seats which is a very different to 400 seats which is a very different it's a very different type of company it's a very different type of company it's a very different type of company with like account managers and things with like account managers and things with like account managers and things like that we didn't have that like that we didn't have that like that we didn't have that infrastructure and the reason is like infrastructure and the reason is like infrastructure and the reason is like like if your your ACV isn't let's say

like if your your ACV isn't let's say like if your your ACV isn't let's say 30,000 a year 20,000 a year at minimum I 30,000 a year 20,000 a year at minimum I 30,000 a year 20,000 a year at minimum I don't know if it's worth doing outbound don't know if it's worth doing outbound don't know if it's worth doing outbound sales um just as you scale like as a sales um just as you scale like as a sales um just as you scale like as a Founder as an early seed yeah absolutely Founder as an early seed yeah absolutely Founder as an early seed yeah absolutely do outbound sales and do the Outreach do outbound sales and do the Outreach do outbound sales and do the Outreach but as you get uh bigger uh I think your but as you get uh bigger uh I think your but as you get uh bigger uh I think your ACV has to be in that 20 30,000 just for ACV has to be in that 20 30,000 just for ACV has to be in that 20 30,000 just for it to make sense uh long sales Cycles it to make sense uh long sales Cycles it to make sense uh long sales Cycles things like that so yeah so that's so we things like that so yeah so that's so we things like that so yeah so that's so we so that came after and then we had an so that came after and then we had an so that came after and then we had an entire organization around that sdrs to entire organization around that sdrs to entire organization around that sdrs to closers and things like that so so Greg closers and things like that so so Greg closers and things like that so so Greg if you were going to start over today if you were going to start over today if you were going to start over today and build a sass from scratch you were and build a sass from scratch you were and build a sass from scratch you were early stage what marketing approach early stage what marketing approach early stage what marketing approach would you start with I would be doing would you start with I would be doing would you start with I would be doing alternative posts I would 10 to 15 of alternative posts I would 10 to 15 of alternative posts I would 10 to 15 of them and then the second then as soon as them and then the second then as soon as them and then the second then as soon as I had 10 20 users I had 10 20 users I had 10 20 users I would be doing Partnerships just email I would be doing Partnerships just email I would be doing Partnerships just email partnership over and over again I partnership over and over again I partnership over and over again I mentioned in the opening that there was mentioned in the opening that there was mentioned in the opening that there was one strategy Greg said he would avoid at one strategy Greg said he would avoid at one strategy Greg said he would avoid at all costs before we get to that I want all costs before we get to that I want all costs before we get to that I want to invite you to join microcom for to invite you to join microcom for to invite you to join microcom for connect Greg originally posted this list connect Greg originally posted this list connect Greg originally posted this list of marketing strategies in our marketing of marketing strategies in our marketing of marketing strategies in our marketing channel within microcom connect microcom channel within microcom connect microcom channel within microcom connect microcom connect has more than 7,000 highly connect has more than 7,000 highly connect has more than 7,000 highly motivated bootstrapped and mostly motivated bootstrapped and mostly motivated bootstrapped and mostly bootstrapped SAS Founders connect is bootstrapped SAS Founders connect is bootstrapped SAS Founders connect is private it's vetted it's highly engaged private it's vetted it's highly engaged private it's vetted it's highly engaged and highly moderated if you want and highly moderated if you want and highly moderated if you want Community with other amazing Community with other amazing Community with other amazing bootstrapped Founders apply to join at bootstrapped Founders apply to join at bootstrapped Founders apply to join at micron.com micron.com micron.com connect so Greg in your post you connect so Greg in your post you connect so Greg in your post you mentioned one strategy that you were mentioned one strategy that you were mentioned one strategy that you were never able to make profitable what was

never able to make profitable what was never able to make profitable what was it uh conferences and you mean attending it uh conferences and you mean attending it uh conferences and you mean attending conferences or hosting no hosting a conferences or hosting no hosting a conferences or hosting no hosting a conference putting on a conference uh so conference putting on a conference uh so conference putting on a conference uh so we got this brilliant idea to run a we got this brilliant idea to run a we got this brilliant idea to run a conference called Running remote it was conference called Running remote it was conference called Running remote it was at one point and I don't know if it at one point and I don't know if it at one point and I don't know if it still is but it was at one point the still is but it was at one point the still is but it was at one point the world's biggest remote work conference world's biggest remote work conference world's biggest remote work conference um I mean we would get 5 600 people to um I mean we would get 5 600 people to um I mean we would get 5 600 people to come to go to like Bali for a remote come to go to like Bali for a remote come to go to like Bali for a remote work conference it was it was really work conference it was it was really work conference it was it was really cool the problem is is uh as you know cool the problem is is uh as you know cool the problem is is uh as you know conferences are they're not a marketing conferences are they're not a marketing conferences are they're not a marketing channel they're an entirely separate channel they're an entirely separate channel they're an entirely separate business and we didn't know that we were business and we didn't know that we were business and we didn't know that we were we we we had no idea what we were we we we had no idea what we were we we we had no idea what we were getting into um so so we put this on WE getting into um so so we put this on WE getting into um so so we put this on WE it's still going on it's still running it's still going on it's still running it's still going on it's still running and so it's while it's not profitable in and so it's while it's not profitable in and so it's while it's not profitable in itself it does it does leverage it does itself it does it does leverage it does itself it does it does leverage it does other things however like if you're other things however like if you're other things however like if you're thinking about oh let's start this thinking about oh let's start this thinking about oh let's start this conference and we're going to you know conference and we're going to you know conference and we're going to you know talk about our bootstrap stas and talk about our bootstrap stas and talk about our bootstrap stas and everything like that um yeah don't do everything like that um yeah don't do everything like that um yeah don't do that it's a lot of work at least wait that it's a lot of work at least wait that it's a lot of work at least wait until you have yeah at least wait until until you have yeah at least wait until until you have yeah at least wait until you have 10 million in revenue and you you have 10 million in revenue and you you have 10 million in revenue and you could hire literally an event planner could hire literally an event planner could hire literally an event planner with an event planning team and yeah with an event planning team and yeah with an event planning team and yeah that's how to do it it's yes for sure that's how to do it it's yes for sure that's how to do it it's yes for sure like it it's it should not be founder like it it's it should not be founder like it it's it should not be founder co-founder Le in any way shape or form co-founder Le in any way shape or form co-founder Le in any way shape or form right and now now in terms of right and now now in terms of right and now now in terms of conferences did you also try attending conferences did you also try attending conferences did you also try attending other conferences whether as a sponsor other conferences whether as a sponsor other conferences whether as a sponsor or as an attendee and did you feel like or as an attendee and did you feel like or as an attendee and did you feel like those maybe were more worth it we spoke those maybe were more worth it we spoke those maybe were more worth it we spoke at a lot of conferences Liam spoke at a at a lot of conferences Liam spoke at a at a lot of conferences Liam spoke at a couple conferences I spoke at a couple couple conferences I spoke at a couple couple conferences I spoke at a couple conferences a couple other folks spoke conferences a couple other folks spoke conferences a couple other folks spoke at conferences so um I don't know if

at conferences so um I don't know if at conferences so um I don't know if that was worth it again maybe maybe we that was worth it again maybe maybe we that was worth it again maybe maybe we met some people it was probably worth it met some people it was probably worth it met some people it was probably worth it to uh build the Partnerships up like to uh build the Partnerships up like to uh build the Partnerships up like like if we spoke do I think we got a bum like if we spoke do I think we got a bum like if we spoke do I think we got a bum do do I think we added 10 new users I do do I think we added 10 new users I do do I think we added 10 new users I don't know but if we spoke at something don't know but if we spoke at something don't know but if we spoke at something and then we met people and then we were and then we met people and then we were and then we met people and then we were like hey let's do a let's do a webinar like hey let's do a let's do a webinar like hey let's do a let's do a webinar together that's where it was worth it together that's where it was worth it together that's where it was worth it for sure yeah Greg it's been amazing for sure yeah Greg it's been amazing for sure yeah Greg it's been amazing having you thanks for coming on and having you thanks for coming on and having you thanks for coming on and sharing all your knowledge thanks so sharing all your knowledge thanks so sharing all your knowledge thanks so much where can people find you on the much where can people find you on the much where can people find you on the internet where they can keep up with internet where they can keep up with internet where they can keep up with what you're doing yeah so um I spend what you're doing yeah so um I spend what you're doing yeah so um I spend most of my time on LinkedIn these days most of my time on LinkedIn these days most of my time on LinkedIn these days uh Greg Dao um and content copy.com is uh Greg Dao um and content copy.com is uh Greg Dao um and content copy.com is my site awesome thanks again for joining my site awesome thanks again for joining my site awesome thanks again for joining me thank you so much Rob thanks again to me thank you so much Rob thanks again to me thank you so much Rob thanks again to Greg for joining me if you enjoyed this Greg for joining me if you enjoyed this Greg for joining me if you enjoyed this please please like And subscribe Greg please please like And subscribe Greg please please like And subscribe Greg shared that SEO and content marketing shared that SEO and content marketing shared that SEO and content marketing were the foundation of time doctor's were the foundation of time doctor's were the foundation of time doctor's success and I've seen many startups go success and I've seen many startups go success and I've seen many startups go this route often Founders have a hard this route often Founders have a hard this route often Founders have a hard time deciding which type of content to time deciding which type of content to time deciding which type of content to create first so I made a whole video create first so I made a whole video create first so I made a whole video about where to get started with your about where to get started with your about where to get started with your content marketing strategy you should content marketing strategy you should content marketing strategy you should give it a look and we'll see you next give it a look and we'll see you next give it a look and we'll see you next time