SaaS is Hard Until You Learn These 4 Skills

If your SaaS is stuck, say you're doing If your SaaS is stuck, say you're doing five or ten thousand dollars a month, or five or ten thousand dollars a month, or five or ten thousand dollars a month, or maybe you can't even get to a thousand maybe you can't even get to a thousand maybe you can't even get to a thousand MRR, [music] MRR, [music] MRR, [music] and you can't figure out why it won't and you can't figure out why it won't and you can't figure out why it won't grow, odds are good that you're missing grow, odds are good that you're missing grow, odds are good that you're missing one of the core four SaaS skills. After one of the core four SaaS skills. After one of the core four SaaS skills. After working with thousands of founders and working with thousands of founders and working with thousands of founders and investing in more than 230 SaaS investing in more than 230 SaaS investing in more than 230 SaaS companies, I can tell you, miss even one companies, I can tell you, miss even one companies, I can tell you, miss even one of these and it becomes a ceiling on of these and it becomes a ceiling on of these and it becomes a ceiling on your entire business, no matter how good your entire business, no matter how good your entire business, no matter how good your market is or how smart your idea your market is or how smart your idea your market is or how smart your idea is. When most founders hear that, they is. When most founders hear that, they is. When most founders hear that, they think you can hire an agency for think you can hire an agency for think you can hire an agency for marketing, that you can find a marketing, that you can find a marketing, that you can find a freelancer for development, or you can freelancer for development, or you can freelancer for development, or you can get a co-founder to do whatever it is get a co-founder to do whatever it is get a co-founder to do whatever it is you don't know how to do. And almost you don't know how to do. And almost you don't know how to do. And almost every time, this doesn't work. So, in every time, this doesn't work. So, in every time, this doesn't work. So, in this video, I'm going to break down what this video, I'm going to break down what this video, I'm going to break down what the core four actually are, what to do the core four actually are, what to do the core four actually are, what to do if you don't have all of them right now, if you don't have all of them right now, if you don't have all of them right now, and when you can realistically start and when you can realistically start and when you can realistically start handing them off. Because you can, it's handing them off. Because you can, it's handing them off. Because you can, it's just a lot later than most founders want just a lot later than most founders want just a lot later than most founders want to. So, let's start with what the core to. So, let's start with what the core to. So, let's start with what the core four SaaS skills actually are. The first four SaaS skills actually are. The first four SaaS skills actually are. The first one, and these are in no particular one, and these are in no particular one, and these are in no particular order as I go through them, but the order as I go through them, but the order as I go through them, but the first one is product. It's the knowledge first one is product. It's the knowledge first one is product. It's the knowledge of what you should be building and how of what you should be building and how of what you should be building and how it should be built to a certain extent.

it should be built to a certain extent. it should be built to a certain extent. And I don't mean the underlying software And I don't mean the underlying software And I don't mean the underlying software architecture, that's more in architecture, that's more in architecture, that's more in development, but I mean how it's going development, but I mean how it's going development, but I mean how it's going to integrate into your existing to integrate into your existing to integrate into your existing application. And frankly, this skill, application. And frankly, this skill, application. And frankly, this skill, product, is the one that most people product, is the one that most people product, is the one that most people don't think about or they underestimate don't think about or they underestimate don't think about or they underestimate how hard it actually is. This is not how hard it actually is. This is not how hard it actually is. This is not project management where you are just project management where you are just project management where you are just moving things along. This is deciding moving things along. This is deciding moving things along. This is deciding what gets built, in what order, why, and what gets built, in what order, why, and what gets built, in what order, why, and how. It's about taking customer how. It's about taking customer how. It's about taking customer feedback, understanding your space, your feedback, understanding your space, your feedback, understanding your space, your industry, your niche, and iterating industry, your niche, and iterating industry, your niche, and iterating towards something that people want and towards something that people want and towards something that people want and are willing to pay for month after are willing to pay for month after are willing to pay for month after month. You can't build something people month. You can't build something people month. You can't build something people want by accident. This is the job of the want by accident. This is the job of the want by accident. This is the job of the founder, and that's why skill number one founder, and that's why skill number one founder, and that's why skill number one is product. Skill number two is is product. Skill number two is is product. Skill number two is development, and again, these are in no development, and again, these are in no development, and again, these are in no particular order for now. Development's particular order for now. Development's particular order for now. Development's not just writing code, it's the ability not just writing code, it's the ability not just writing code, it's the ability to ship fast and maintain a codebase to ship fast and maintain a codebase to ship fast and maintain a codebase that doesn't collapse, so that you don't that doesn't collapse, so that you don't that doesn't collapse, so that you don't build a ton of technical debt that build a ton of technical debt that build a ton of technical debt that screws you 12 months down the the screws you 12 months down the the screws you 12 months down the the Feature velocity in the early days is Feature velocity in the early days is Feature velocity in the early days is one of your only real advantages over one of your only real advantages over one of your only real advantages over bigger entrenched competitor. And the bigger entrenched competitor. And the bigger entrenched competitor. And the idea is that you ship features fast, but idea is that you ship features fast, but idea is that you ship features fast, but you don't introduce a bunch of tech you don't introduce a bunch of tech you don't introduce a bunch of tech debt. And you have no bureaucracy debt. And you have no bureaucracy debt. And you have no bureaucracy because you are so small. You can ship because you are so small. You can ship because you are so small. You can ship in days what takes big companies months.

in days what takes big companies months. in days what takes big companies months. Skill number three is marketing. Now, Skill number three is marketing. Now, Skill number three is marketing. Now, this is not posting on Twitter. It's not this is not posting on Twitter. It's not this is not posting on Twitter. It's not audience building. I've ranted about audience building. I've ranted about audience building. I've ranted about this before. Audience building is not a this before. Audience building is not a this before. Audience building is not a core SaaS skill. There are really three core SaaS skill. There are really three core SaaS skill. There are really three layers to marketing. It's execution, layers to marketing. It's execution, layers to marketing. It's execution, like the individual contributor pushing like the individual contributor pushing like the individual contributor pushing buttons in an ad console or writing the buttons in an ad console or writing the buttons in an ad console or writing the actual content that you're going to to actual content that you're going to to actual content that you're going to to use for SEO. The second layer is project use for SEO. The second layer is project use for SEO. The second layer is project management. This is keeping everything management. This is keeping everything management. This is keeping everything moving, reviewing things, keeping moving, reviewing things, keeping moving, reviewing things, keeping everyone accountable. And then there's everyone accountable. And then there's everyone accountable. And then there's marketing strategy. This is deciding marketing strategy. This is deciding marketing strategy. This is deciding which approaches to test and where to which approaches to test and where to which approaches to test and where to double down. Now, there are 20 B2B SaaS double down. Now, there are 20 B2B SaaS double down. Now, there are 20 B2B SaaS marketing approaches. I've talked about marketing approaches. I've talked about marketing approaches. I've talked about them on this channel, on my podcast, and them on this channel, on my podcast, and them on this channel, on my podcast, and in my book, The SaaS Playbook. And as in my book, The SaaS Playbook. And as in my book, The SaaS Playbook. And as I've said, just going and posting on I've said, just going and posting on I've said, just going and posting on social media is not what I'm talking social media is not what I'm talking social media is not what I'm talking about. With marketing, strategy is the about. With marketing, strategy is the about. With marketing, strategy is the one that matters most and is hardest to one that matters most and is hardest to one that matters most and is hardest to replace because that is deciding what to replace because that is deciding what to replace because that is deciding what to test and where to double down. And test and where to double down. And test and where to double down. And that's not something you can just that's not something you can just that's not something you can just outsource to an agency or ask ChatGPT to outsource to an agency or ask ChatGPT to outsource to an agency or ask ChatGPT to do for you. And the fourth skill is do for you. And the fourth skill is do for you. And the fourth skill is sales. This is having real conversations sales. This is having real conversations sales. This is having real conversations with prospects, understanding with prospects, understanding with prospects, understanding objections, closing deals, dealing with objections, closing deals, dealing with objections, closing deals, dealing with procurement, all the things it takes to procurement, all the things it takes to procurement, all the things it takes to sell your product. Now, not every SaaS sell your product. Now, not every SaaS sell your product. Now, not every SaaS needs this. If you are purely needs this. If you are purely needs this. If you are purely self-serve, you can skip it. But the self-serve, you can skip it. But the self-serve, you can skip it. But the fastest growing companies in my fastest growing companies in my fastest growing companies in my portfolio are almost inevitably doing portfolio are almost inevitably doing portfolio are almost inevitably doing some sales. So, I mentioned earlier that some sales. So, I mentioned earlier that some sales. So, I mentioned earlier that missing any one of the core four SaaS missing any one of the core four SaaS missing any one of the core four SaaS skills can put a ceiling on your skills can put a ceiling on your skills can put a ceiling on your business. Here's what I mean by that.

business. Here's what I mean by that. business. Here's what I mean by that. The way I think about the success of a The way I think about the success of a The way I think about the success of a company is a multiplier. It's the company is a multiplier. It's the company is a multiplier. It's the founder or founders times the product founder or founders times the product founder or founders times the product times the market. And you might say each times the market. And you might say each times the market. And you might say each one is on a one to 10 scale. And realize one is on a one to 10 scale. And realize one is on a one to 10 scale. And realize that they multiply, they don't add. that they multiply, they don't add. that they multiply, they don't add. That's very important here. So, if my That's very important here. So, if my That's very important here. So, if my founder score is a three because I'm founder score is a three because I'm founder score is a three because I'm missing sales and marketing, even a nine missing sales and marketing, even a nine missing sales and marketing, even a nine market and an eight product gives me market and an eight product gives me market and an eight product gives me 216. 216. 216. But if I'm a seven across all four with But if I'm a seven across all four with But if I'm a seven across all four with the same product and market, that comes the same product and market, that comes the same product and market, that comes out to 504, out to 504, out to 504, nearly two and a half times the outcome. nearly two and a half times the outcome. nearly two and a half times the outcome. And obviously, these numbers are not And obviously, these numbers are not And obviously, these numbers are not exact. They're just meant to be exact. They're just meant to be exact. They're just meant to be directions. But here's an example of WP directions. But here's an example of WP directions. But here's an example of WP Engine. Jason Cohen, who's got to be a Engine. Jason Cohen, who's got to be a Engine. Jason Cohen, who's got to be a nine or a or a 10 out of 10 founder, nine or a or a 10 out of 10 founder, nine or a or a 10 out of 10 founder, launching into a growing market with a launching into a growing market with a launching into a growing market with a smart product idea time. That's about as smart product idea time. That's about as smart product idea time. That's about as close to 10 * 10 * 10 as it gets. So, close to 10 * 10 * 10 as it gets. So, close to 10 * 10 * 10 as it gets. So, what does it actually look like when one what does it actually look like when one what does it actually look like when one of these core four is missing? There are of these core four is missing? There are of these core four is missing? There are four patterns or maybe archetypes that I four patterns or maybe archetypes that I four patterns or maybe archetypes that I see over and over. The first is the see over and over. The first is the see over and over. The first is the builder. Builders missing sales and builder. Builders missing sales and builder. Builders missing sales and marketing. And this is the most common marketing. And this is the most common marketing. And this is the most common pattern I see because I deal with a lot pattern I see because I deal with a lot pattern I see because I deal with a lot of developers. This is where you're a of developers. This is where you're a of developers. This is where you're a technical founder, you build good technical founder, you build good technical founder, you build good products or great products, but nobody products or great products, but nobody products or great products, but nobody ever knows that they exist. The builder ever knows that they exist. The builder ever knows that they exist. The builder thinks that the product should sell thinks that the product should sell thinks that the product should sell itself, or they think posting on social itself, or they think posting on social itself, or they think posting on social media counts as marketing. If you're media counts as marketing. If you're media counts as marketing. If you're really good at product and dev, but you really good at product and dev, but you really good at product and dev, but you just can't get anyone in the door, you just can't get anyone in the door, you just can't get anyone in the door, you can't get anyone to pay attention, then can't get anyone to pay attention, then can't get anyone to pay attention, then you might be falling into this trap of you might be falling into this trap of you might be falling into this trap of the builder. The second one is the the builder. The second one is the the builder. The second one is the marketer. This is where you're missing marketer. This is where you're missing marketer. This is where you're missing product. This is very common with info

product. This is very common with info product. This is very common with info marketers or audience-first founders who marketers or audience-first founders who marketers or audience-first founders who jump into SaaS. They can drive traffic, jump into SaaS. They can drive traffic, jump into SaaS. They can drive traffic, they can get sign-ups, but churn is they can get sign-ups, but churn is they can get sign-ups, but churn is through the roof. They don't know how to through the roof. They don't know how to through the roof. They don't know how to iterate on a product because in iterate on a product because in iterate on a product because in information or as a creator, the information or as a creator, the information or as a creator, the headline is what matters. People pay headline is what matters. People pay headline is what matters. People pay once, and if they never use the product, once, and if they never use the product, once, and if they never use the product, who cares? If they buy your course and who cares? If they buy your course and who cares? If they buy your course and they don't go through it, these folks they don't go through it, these folks they don't go through it, these folks don't care. SaaS is different. You have don't care. SaaS is different. You have don't care. SaaS is different. You have to build something people keep using and to build something people keep using and to build something people keep using and keep paying for month after month. And keep paying for month after month. And keep paying for month after month. And these founders, these marketers, can't these founders, these marketers, can't these founders, these marketers, can't figure out how to do that. They don't figure out how to do that. They don't figure out how to do that. They don't know what to build, they don't know how know what to build, they don't know how know what to build, they don't know how to take feedback and turn it into to take feedback and turn it into to take feedback and turn it into something better because they don't have something better because they don't have something better because they don't have product or development experience. Then product or development experience. Then product or development experience. Then we have the outsourcer. This is where we have the outsourcer. This is where we have the outsourcer. This is where you're missing development. So, I often you're missing development. So, I often you're missing development. So, I often see non-technical founders who hire an see non-technical founders who hire an see non-technical founders who hire an agency or freelancer to build their agency or freelancer to build their agency or freelancer to build their product and think that that freelancer product and think that that freelancer product and think that that freelancer is going to handle both product and is going to handle both product and is going to handle both product and development for them. And the number one development for them. And the number one development for them. And the number one struggle I see from these founders month struggle I see from these founders month struggle I see from these founders month after month, company after company, is after month, company after company, is after month, company after company, is they have too many bugs. The next agency they have too many bugs. The next agency they have too many bugs. The next agency they hire because they inevitably fire they hire because they inevitably fire they hire because they inevitably fire that person or that agency wants to that person or that agency wants to that person or that agency wants to rewrite the entire codebase. They can't rewrite the entire codebase. They can't rewrite the entire codebase. They can't ship fast enough. They have technical ship fast enough. They have technical ship fast enough. They have technical debt by the time they launch. And this debt by the time they launch. And this debt by the time they launch. And this becomes a permanent headwind for the becomes a permanent headwind for the becomes a permanent headwind for the business. In almost all of these cases, business. In almost all of these cases, business. In almost all of these cases, I believe that if you removed that I believe that if you removed that I believe that if you removed that headwind by having a developer headwind by having a developer headwind by having a developer co-founder or a founding engineer who co-founder or a founding engineer who co-founder or a founding engineer who really owned that codebase and kept the really owned that codebase and kept the really owned that codebase and kept the code quality up, it would be a code quality up, it would be a code quality up, it would be a significantly different business in significantly different business in significantly different business in almost every case. Now, there are almost every case. Now, there are almost every case. Now, there are exceptions to this, but they are in the exceptions to this, but they are in the exceptions to this, but they are in the the vast minority. Even across my entire the vast minority. Even across my entire the vast minority. Even across my entire portfolio, there's only about 10 or 15% portfolio, there's only about 10 or 15% portfolio, there's only about 10 or 15% of companies that I've invested in that of companies that I've invested in that of companies that I've invested in that don't have at least one technical

don't have at least one technical don't have at least one technical co-founder. But, as I said, there are co-founder. But, as I said, there are co-founder. But, as I said, there are exceptions. Craig Hewitt, the founder of exceptions. Craig Hewitt, the founder of exceptions. Craig Hewitt, the founder of Castos, has done it. And there are a Castos, has done it. And there are a Castos, has done it. And there are a handful of other Tiny Seeds that have handful of other Tiny Seeds that have handful of other Tiny Seeds that have accomplished it, but it's a small number accomplished it, but it's a small number accomplished it, but it's a small number and the pain is real and it's ongoing. and the pain is real and it's ongoing. and the pain is real and it's ongoing. And the fourth archetype is the vibe And the fourth archetype is the vibe And the fourth archetype is the vibe coder and this is where you fall into coder and this is where you fall into coder and this is where you fall into the no-code trap or maybe it's having AI the no-code trap or maybe it's having AI the no-code trap or maybe it's having AI just write all your code and ship it to just write all your code and ship it to just write all your code and ship it to production without review. This is a production without review. This is a production without review. This is a pattern that we're only seeing over the pattern that we're only seeing over the pattern that we're only seeing over the last, I don't know, 12, 18 months, so last, I don't know, 12, 18 months, so last, I don't know, 12, 18 months, so it's a it's a newly formed archetype. it's a it's a newly formed archetype. it's a it's a newly formed archetype. And these are products that are built on And these are products that are built on And these are products that are built on vibe code, no code, or third-party vibe code, no code, or third-party vibe code, no code, or third-party platforms and inevitably they need a platforms and inevitably they need a platforms and inevitably they need a complete rewrite at some point. They're complete rewrite at some point. They're complete rewrite at some point. They're not You're not going to build a not You're not going to build a not You're not going to build a seven-figure your business on these seven-figure your business on these seven-figure your business on these platforms. I've never seen it done as a platforms. I've never seen it done as a platforms. I've never seen it done as a true SaaS offering. I have seen some true SaaS offering. I have seen some true SaaS offering. I have seen some that are like services on top of that are like services on top of that are like services on top of software where the service is actually software where the service is actually software where the service is actually providing the real value. But, if you providing the real value. But, if you providing the real value. But, if you really want the software to compete on really want the software to compete on really want the software to compete on its own, everyone I've ever seen or its own, everyone I've ever seen or its own, everyone I've ever seen or invested in, which is just a handful, invested in, which is just a handful, invested in, which is just a handful, have needed a rewrite. Often, it's have needed a rewrite. Often, it's have needed a rewrite. Often, it's between, say, 5 and maybe 20K a month in between, say, 5 and maybe 20K a month in between, say, 5 and maybe 20K a month in revenue, the founder starts realizing revenue, the founder starts realizing revenue, the founder starts realizing this isn't going to scale. So, when you this isn't going to scale. So, when you this isn't going to scale. So, when you do that, when you rewrite it, that means do that, when you rewrite it, that means do that, when you rewrite it, that means you stand still for three, six, nine you stand still for three, six, nine you stand still for three, six, nine months, right when your advantage as a months, right when your advantage as a months, right when your advantage as a startup is speed. My analogy for this is startup is speed. My analogy for this is startup is speed. My analogy for this is if you and I got together with some if you and I got together with some if you and I got together with some tools and some lumber with no carpentry tools and some lumber with no carpentry tools and some lumber with no carpentry skills, we could build an outhouse or a skills, we could build an outhouse or a skills, we could build an outhouse or a small tool shed and it'd be fine. But small tool shed and it'd be fine. But small tool shed and it'd be fine. But the moment we tried to build a garage or the moment we tried to build a garage or the moment we tried to build a garage or a house or a skyscraper, it would fall a house or a skyscraper, it would fall a house or a skyscraper, it would fall over. And that's vibe coding. So, it's over. And that's vibe coding. So, it's over. And that's vibe coding. So, it's not a dead sense. We've actually funded

not a dead sense. We've actually funded not a dead sense. We've actually funded a couple several no-code tools. I hope a couple several no-code tools. I hope a couple several no-code tools. I hope we haven't funded any vibe completely we haven't funded any vibe completely we haven't funded any vibe completely vibe coded tools. We've funded a few of vibe coded tools. We've funded a few of vibe coded tools. We've funded a few of these at Tiny Seed, but it's a these at Tiny Seed, but it's a these at Tiny Seed, but it's a meaningful drag on your odds and we meaningful drag on your odds and we meaningful drag on your odds and we actually now ask up front if folks are actually now ask up front if folks are actually now ask up front if folks are vibe coding or using no-code in their vibe coding or using no-code in their vibe coding or using no-code in their tool so that we know how to rate that as tool so that we know how to rate that as tool so that we know how to rate that as we decide who to make offers to. And we decide who to make offers to. And we decide who to make offers to. And there are tradeoffs here because no-code there are tradeoffs here because no-code there are tradeoffs here because no-code and vibe coding can get you to an MVP and vibe coding can get you to an MVP and vibe coding can get you to an MVP quicker, but man, it's really hard to quicker, but man, it's really hard to quicker, but man, it's really hard to stand still for six months in the early stand still for six months in the early stand still for six months in the early days, you know, in that five to 20k MRR days, you know, in that five to 20k MRR days, you know, in that five to 20k MRR range when you really want to be range when you really want to be range when you really want to be responding to the market. So, if you're responding to the market. So, if you're responding to the market. So, if you're watching this and you recognize yourself watching this and you recognize yourself watching this and you recognize yourself in one of these archetypes I've laid in one of these archetypes I've laid in one of these archetypes I've laid out, here's what you can do about it. out, here's what you can do about it. out, here's what you can do about it. So, I'm going to lay out three paths So, I'm going to lay out three paths So, I'm going to lay out three paths that you can take in my order of that you can take in my order of that you can take in my order of preference. So, the first path and the preference. So, the first path and the preference. So, the first path and the one that I would recommend is to learn one that I would recommend is to learn one that I would recommend is to learn it yourself. This is my preferred path, it yourself. This is my preferred path, it yourself. This is my preferred path, especially for solo founders. You don't especially for solo founders. You don't especially for solo founders. You don't need to master all of the core four. You need to master all of the core four. You need to master all of the core four. You need to be just good enough to scrap and need to be just good enough to scrap and need to be just good enough to scrap and get by. There's a big difference between get by. There's a big difference between get by. There's a big difference between I need to already be an expert at all I need to already be an expert at all I need to already be an expert at all four and I'm going to take ownership and four and I'm going to take ownership and four and I'm going to take ownership and commit the time to getting good at all commit the time to getting good at all commit the time to getting good at all four. And the second one is what four. And the second one is what four. And the second one is what matters. As a founder, you're going to matters. As a founder, you're going to matters. As a founder, you're going to be a jack or Jill of all trades and a be a jack or Jill of all trades and a be a jack or Jill of all trades and a master of none. That is the job. Most master of none. That is the job. Most master of none. That is the job. Most successful solo founders I've seen have successful solo founders I've seen have successful solo founders I've seen have done exactly this. Second path is to done exactly this. Second path is to done exactly this. Second path is to constrain your idea. It's to use the constrain your idea. It's to use the constrain your idea. It's to use the stair-step method. So, if you don't have stair-step method. So, if you don't have stair-step method. So, if you don't have all four, pick a business that doesn't all four, pick a business that doesn't all four, pick a business that doesn't require all four. So, a step one require all four. So, a step one require all four. So, a step one business in my stair-step model is like business in my stair-step model is like business in my stair-step model is like a Shopify plugin or a tool built on any a Shopify plugin or a tool built on any a Shopify plugin or a tool built on any app marketplace. And of course, we have

app marketplace. And of course, we have app marketplace. And of course, we have a list of more than 80 on the MicroConf a list of more than 80 on the MicroConf a list of more than 80 on the MicroConf website. These step-one businesses need website. These step-one businesses need website. These step-one businesses need less development. Maybe they're no-code, less development. Maybe they're no-code, less development. Maybe they're no-code, maybe you vibe code them and they that maybe you vibe code them and they that maybe you vibe code them and they that actually works here in this case because actually works here in this case because actually works here in this case because it is like a tool shed. It's a small it is like a tool shed. It's a small it is like a tool shed. It's a small utility. These have built-in utility. These have built-in utility. These have built-in distribution because they're in an app distribution because they're in an app distribution because they're in an app marketplace. So you only need to learn marketplace. So you only need to learn marketplace. So you only need to learn one marketing channel, and they often one marketing channel, and they often one marketing channel, and they often don't require sales. Now, you limit your don't require sales. Now, you limit your don't require sales. Now, you limit your ceiling of how big it can grow, but you ceiling of how big it can grow, but you ceiling of how big it can grow, but you stay in the game and more importantly, stay in the game and more importantly, stay in the game and more importantly, you learn a ton of skills along the way. you learn a ton of skills along the way. you learn a ton of skills along the way. You build confidence, you get some You build confidence, you get some You build confidence, you get some revenue. This is why the stair-step revenue. This is why the stair-step revenue. This is why the stair-step approach works and why I've preached it approach works and why I've preached it approach works and why I've preached it for years. Path three is to find a for years. Path three is to find a for years. Path three is to find a co-founder, but you want to be specific. co-founder, but you want to be specific. co-founder, but you want to be specific. You don't want to look for a business You don't want to look for a business You don't want to look for a business co-founder. Like, what does that even co-founder. Like, what does that even co-founder. Like, what does that even mean? You want to find someone who fills mean? You want to find someone who fills mean? You want to find someone who fills the exact gap in your core four. The the exact gap in your core four. The the exact gap in your core four. The most valuable skills in a SaaS are sales most valuable skills in a SaaS are sales most valuable skills in a SaaS are sales and marketing, one and two. Sometimes and marketing, one and two. Sometimes and marketing, one and two. Sometimes it's marketing and sales, depending on it's marketing and sales, depending on it's marketing and sales, depending on what what niche you're in and your price what what niche you're in and your price what what niche you're in and your price points. Don't give away half the company points. Don't give away half the company points. Don't give away half the company to someone who can't actually execute in to someone who can't actually execute in to someone who can't actually execute in sales and marketing. Or if you're sales and marketing. Or if you're sales and marketing. Or if you're non-technical and you know sales and non-technical and you know sales and non-technical and you know sales and marketing, or you're willing to get marketing, or you're willing to get marketing, or you're willing to get really good at it, you need to find that really good at it, you need to find that really good at it, you need to find that dev who's not just a developer but also dev who's not just a developer but also dev who's not just a developer but also knows product. That's the thing to find knows product. That's the thing to find knows product. That's the thing to find out. What do we build, in what order, out. What do we build, in what order, out. What do we build, in what order, why, and how? Among the successful why, and how? Among the successful why, and how? Among the successful companies I'm invested in, the core four companies I'm invested in, the core four companies I'm invested in, the core four are sometimes spread across three are sometimes spread across three are sometimes spread across three co-founders, sometimes it's two, and co-founders, sometimes it's two, and co-founders, sometimes it's two, and occasionally you get one person who has occasionally you get one person who has occasionally you get one person who has all four. It's certainly rare, but it all four. It's certainly rare, but it all four. It's certainly rare, but it happens. Ruben Gomez is an example of happens. Ruben Gomez is an example of happens. Ruben Gomez is an example of this. He's the founder of SignWell. Iran this. He's the founder of SignWell. Iran this. He's the founder of SignWell. Iran Gabrin, who I've had on my podcast,

Gabrin, who I've had on my podcast, Gabrin, who I've had on my podcast, founder of Gymdesk, is also someone who founder of Gymdesk, is also someone who founder of Gymdesk, is also someone who was a developer who learned product and was a developer who learned product and was a developer who learned product and then learned how to do the other two. So then learned how to do the other two. So then learned how to do the other two. So next, I'm going to give you a high-level next, I'm going to give you a high-level next, I'm going to give you a high-level overview of when you can realistically overview of when you can realistically overview of when you can realistically start delegating each of these skills. start delegating each of these skills. start delegating each of these skills. And if you want my full thoughts on all And if you want my full thoughts on all And if you want my full thoughts on all of this, the core four plus more, you of this, the core four plus more, you of this, the core four plus more, you should check out my podcast, Startups should check out my podcast, Startups should check out my podcast, Startups for the Rest of Us. Specifically, for the Rest of Us. Specifically, for the Rest of Us. Specifically, episodes 807 and 811. I dive deeper into episodes 807 and 811. I dive deeper into episodes 807 and 811. I dive deeper into this framework and I answer some this framework and I answer some this framework and I answer some listener questions about it. And we'll listener questions about it. And we'll listener questions about it. And we'll link to those episodes in the show link to those episodes in the show link to those episodes in the show notes. So, let's say you got the core notes. So, let's say you got the core notes. So, let's say you got the core four covered, either yourself or across four covered, either yourself or across four covered, either yourself or across your founding team. The next question your founding team. The next question your founding team. The next question everyone asks is, "When can I stop doing everyone asks is, "When can I stop doing everyone asks is, "When can I stop doing all of this myself? When can I delegate all of this myself? When can I delegate all of this myself? When can I delegate it?" And the key principle up front is it?" And the key principle up front is it?" And the key principle up front is it's not really about a revenue number, it's not really about a revenue number, it's not really about a revenue number, but it's about repeatability and how but it's about repeatability and how but it's about repeatability and how standardized and certain you can make standardized and certain you can make standardized and certain you can make each of these core four. You've heard me each of these core four. You've heard me each of these core four. You've heard me talk about on this channel before, but talk about on this channel before, but talk about on this channel before, but as a founder, you should be working on as a founder, you should be working on as a founder, you should be working on the risky or the uncertain areas of the the risky or the uncertain areas of the the risky or the uncertain areas of the business. When something becomes more business. When something becomes more business. When something becomes more repeatable or more certain, that's when repeatable or more certain, that's when repeatable or more certain, that's when you can find someone to hand it off to.

you can find someone to hand it off to. you can find someone to hand it off to. And of course, don't make the common And of course, don't make the common And of course, don't make the common mistake. You want to delegate, not mistake. You want to delegate, not mistake. You want to delegate, not abdicate. So, you have to train someone abdicate. So, you have to train someone abdicate. So, you have to train someone up and look at their work and help them up and look at their work and help them up and look at their work and help them get better at it. Since people always get better at it. Since people always get better at it. Since people always ask me for ranges of revenue, like when ask me for ranges of revenue, like when ask me for ranges of revenue, like when you should do it, here's what I've seen. you should do it, here's what I've seen. you should do it, here's what I've seen. Development is usually the earliest and Development is usually the earliest and Development is usually the earliest and the easiest to delegate. You can hire a the easiest to delegate. You can hire a the easiest to delegate. You can hire a developer as early as I mean, 10K, 20, developer as early as I mean, 10K, 20, developer as early as I mean, 10K, 20, 30K MRR if you're technical yourself. 30K MRR if you're technical yourself. 30K MRR if you're technical yourself. So, with my last startup Drip, I had a So, with my last startup Drip, I had a So, with my last startup Drip, I had a contract developer who later became my contract developer who later became my contract developer who later became my co-founder. That was Derrick. Plus co-founder. That was Derrick. Plus co-founder. That was Derrick. Plus another junior dev by the time we were another junior dev by the time we were another junior dev by the time we were at about, maybe 10 or 15K MRR. But that at about, maybe 10 or 15K MRR. But that at about, maybe 10 or 15K MRR. But that specifically was a market that needed specifically was a market that needed specifically was a market that needed years of development just to get table years of development just to get table years of development just to get table stakes. There were hundreds of stakes. There were hundreds of stakes. There were hundreds of competitors in the email service competitors in the email service competitors in the email service provider or marketing automation space. provider or marketing automation space. provider or marketing automation space. If you're in a tighter vertical with If you're in a tighter vertical with If you're in a tighter vertical with less competition, maybe you hire a dev less competition, maybe you hire a dev less competition, maybe you hire a dev at 10, 20, 30K MRR and it's a huge at 10, 20, 30K MRR and it's a huge at 10, 20, 30K MRR and it's a huge weight off your shoulders, but keep your weight off your shoulders, but keep your weight off your shoulders, but keep your architectural decisions and the tech architectural decisions and the tech architectural decisions and the tech leadership on the founding team much leadership on the founding team much leadership on the founding team much longer. Delegating execution is very longer. Delegating execution is very longer. Delegating execution is very different from delegating direction. different from delegating direction. different from delegating direction. Now, let's talk about sales. This Now, let's talk about sales. This Now, let's talk about sales. This depends on complexity. So, if you have a depends on complexity. So, if you have a depends on complexity. So, if you have a simple, repeatable, one-call close, I simple, repeatable, one-call close, I simple, repeatable, one-call close, I think you can start delegating that at think you can start delegating that at think you can start delegating that at 20, 30K MRR. I handed off sales at Drip 20, 30K MRR. I handed off sales at Drip 20, 30K MRR. I handed off sales at Drip around that that range because the calls around that that range because the calls around that that range because the calls were very similar to each other. And I were very similar to each other. And I were very similar to each other. And I had our customer success person take had our customer success person take had our customer success person take over for sales. If you're doing over for sales. If you're doing over for sales. If you're doing enterprise sales, big ticket, 35,000 a enterprise sales, big ticket, 35,000 a enterprise sales, big ticket, 35,000 a year and more, going through year and more, going through year and more, going through procurement, I think you need to hold on procurement, I think you need to hold on procurement, I think you need to hold on to this at least past 500k, probably to this at least past 500k, probably to this at least past 500k, probably into seven figures. And if you have a

into seven figures. And if you have a into seven figures. And if you have a dual funnel, let's say you're at $500 a dual funnel, let's say you're at $500 a dual funnel, let's say you're at $500 a month and $5,000 a month, I would hand month and $5,000 a month, I would hand month and $5,000 a month, I would hand off the lower end deals first and I keep off the lower end deals first and I keep off the lower end deals first and I keep the high value ones to yourself. The key the high value ones to yourself. The key the high value ones to yourself. The key here is repeatability. If every call is here is repeatability. If every call is here is repeatability. If every call is different and complex, you're not ready. different and complex, you're not ready. different and complex, you're not ready. Now, in terms of marketing, there's Now, in terms of marketing, there's Now, in terms of marketing, there's three layers and so three timelines, three layers and so three timelines, three layers and so three timelines, right? First, you have marketing right? First, you have marketing right? First, you have marketing execution. This is the individual execution. This is the individual execution. This is the individual contributor who is actually running the contributor who is actually running the contributor who is actually running the ads, writing the articles, creating the ads, writing the articles, creating the ads, writing the articles, creating the videos. You can delegate this early to videos. You can delegate this early to videos. You can delegate this early to contractors and freelancers. It's a contractors and freelancers. It's a contractors and freelancers. It's a black box. Does it work or doesn't it? black box. Does it work or doesn't it? black box. Does it work or doesn't it? Marketing execution of individual tasks Marketing execution of individual tasks Marketing execution of individual tasks is actually quite easy to delegate and I is actually quite easy to delegate and I is actually quite easy to delegate and I recommend doing that early. Project recommend doing that early. Project recommend doing that early. Project management is to delegate when you have management is to delegate when you have management is to delegate when you have budget, right? This is keeping your budget, right? This is keeping your budget, right? This is keeping your campaigns and your people on track. But campaigns and your people on track. But campaigns and your people on track. But strategy, this is deciding what to test, strategy, this is deciding what to test, strategy, this is deciding what to test, analyzing what's working, where to analyzing what's working, where to analyzing what's working, where to double down. This is the hard one. The double down. This is the hard one. The double down. This is the hard one. The earliest I've ever seen successful earliest I've ever seen successful earliest I've ever seen successful founders bring someone in to even founders bring someone in to even founders bring someone in to even collaborate on strategy after seven collaborate on strategy after seven collaborate on strategy after seven figures. It's in the one to two million figures. It's in the one to two million figures. It's in the one to two million ARR range. And they didn't even hand it ARR range. And they didn't even hand it ARR range. And they didn't even hand it off. It was still collaborative. If off. It was still collaborative. If off. It was still collaborative. If you're at the zero to one phase and you're at the zero to one phase and you're at the zero to one phase and you're still figuring out which channels you're still figuring out which channels you're still figuring out which channels work, you cannot outsource this. And the work, you cannot outsource this. And the work, you cannot outsource this. And the fourth and final one is product and this fourth and final one is product and this fourth and final one is product and this is probably the last one you can let go.

is probably the last one you can let go. is probably the last one you can let go. Now, it depends on your product and your Now, it depends on your product and your Now, it depends on your product and your space, but usually I see folks, again, space, but usually I see folks, again, space, but usually I see folks, again, it's that maybe one and a half to three it's that maybe one and a half to three it's that maybe one and a half to three million ARR, two to three million if I'm million ARR, two to three million if I'm million ARR, two to three million if I'm if I'm being uh conservative. I can't if I'm being uh conservative. I can't if I'm being uh conservative. I can't think of a single company that I'm think of a single company that I'm think of a single company that I'm invested in across the hundreds I'm invested in across the hundreds I'm invested in across the hundreds I'm invested in that brought in outside invested in that brought in outside invested in that brought in outside product help before that. So, at Drip, product help before that. So, at Drip, product help before that. So, at Drip, the example I've used a few times in the example I've used a few times in the example I've used a few times in this video, my co-founder and I made this video, my co-founder and I made this video, my co-founder and I made every single product decision until I every single product decision until I every single product decision until I think we were doing five million a year. think we were doing five million a year. think we were doing five million a year. We didn't need to do that, but it it We didn't need to do that, but it it We didn't need to do that, but it it felt comfortable. And there were two of felt comfortable. And there were two of felt comfortable. And there were two of us heading it up. Then, we brought in a us heading it up. Then, we brought in a us heading it up. Then, we brought in a great product person and even then, it great product person and even then, it great product person and even then, it was still a three-person collaborative was still a three-person collaborative was still a three-person collaborative process. Good product people are very process. Good product people are very process. Good product people are very hard to find and they're very expensive. hard to find and they're very expensive. hard to find and they're very expensive. And this area is one where the slow burn And this area is one where the slow burn And this area is one where the slow burn approach matters most. If you've gotten approach matters most. If you've gotten approach matters most. If you've gotten value from this video, you should go value from this video, you should go value from this video, you should go subscribe to the new MicroConf YouTube subscribe to the new MicroConf YouTube subscribe to the new MicroConf YouTube channel. We host two in-person events channel. We host two in-person events channel. We host two in-person events each year with a highly curated main each year with a highly curated main each year with a highly curated main stage. Founders and operators who are stage. Founders and operators who are stage. Founders and operators who are deep experts in their field. The latest deep experts in their field. The latest deep experts in their field. The latest talks get posted over on the channel. talks get posted over on the channel. talks get posted over on the channel. And if you're working on building out And if you're working on building out And if you're working on building out your marketing skills specifically, your marketing skills specifically, your marketing skills specifically, check out this talk from Jesse Showberg check out this talk from Jesse Showberg check out this talk from Jesse Showberg that he gave at MicroConf Istanbul about that he gave at MicroConf Istanbul about that he gave at MicroConf Istanbul about getting your product mentioned in getting your product mentioned in getting your product mentioned in ChatGPT and other LLMs. He collected ChatGPT and other LLMs. He collected ChatGPT and other LLMs. He collected data across 2,000 websites and it's one data across 2,000 websites and it's one data across 2,000 websites and it's one of the most tactical talks we've had.

of the most tactical talks we've had. of the most tactical talks we've had. It's stuff you can start implementing It's stuff you can start implementing It's stuff you can start implementing right away. Thanks for watching and right away. Thanks for watching and right away. Thanks for watching and we'll see you next time.