The Habits of Successful Entrepreneurs with Sherry Walling

and we're live welcome to today's and we're live welcome to today's episode of microconf on air i'm your episode of microconf on air i'm your episode of microconf on air i'm your host rob wallen i'm excited to be here host rob wallen i'm excited to be here host rob wallen i'm excited to be here today every other wednesday at 1 pm today every other wednesday at 1 pm today every other wednesday at 1 pm eastern 10 a.m pacific we live stream eastern 10 a.m pacific we live stream eastern 10 a.m pacific we live stream for 30 minutes and we cover topics for 30 minutes and we cover topics for 30 minutes and we cover topics related to building and growing related to building and growing related to building and growing ambitious sas startups that bring us ambitious sas startups that bring us ambitious sas startups that bring us freedom and purpose and allow us to freedom and purpose and allow us to freedom and purpose and allow us to maintain healthy relationships thank you maintain healthy relationships thank you maintain healthy relationships thank you for joining me again today it's been a for joining me again today it's been a for joining me again today it's been a couple weeks since we've been on the couple weeks since we've been on the couple weeks since we've been on the live stream live stream live stream and i'm really excited to be talking and i'm really excited to be talking and i'm really excited to be talking today with dr sherry walling she'll be today with dr sherry walling she'll be today with dr sherry walling she'll be joining me in just a couple minutes and joining me in just a couple minutes and joining me in just a couple minutes and i think she's joining me in that that i think she's joining me in that that i think she's joining me in that that photo right behind me she's there with photo right behind me she's there with photo right behind me she's there with our with our two boys if casey guessed our with our two boys if casey guessed our with our two boys if casey guessed it not a coincidence we have the same it not a coincidence we have the same it not a coincidence we have the same last name um she's actually in this room last name um she's actually in this room last name um she's actually in this room right behind me over here so we're going right behind me over here so we're going right behind me over here so we're going to talk about habits of successful to talk about habits of successful to talk about habits of successful entrepreneurs entrepreneurs entrepreneurs she calling from her experience uh as a she calling from her experience uh as a she calling from her experience uh as a psychologist a speaker a consultant a psychologist a speaker a consultant a psychologist a speaker a consultant a ceo coach ceo coach ceo coach and a podcaster and a podcaster and a podcaster and me of course you know relying on my and me of course you know relying on my and me of course you know relying on my experience of working with founders and experience of working with founders and experience of working with founders and being a founder for the past um however being a founder for the past um however being a founder for the past um however many years it depends on how you count many years it depends on how you count many years it depends on how you count 17 years ish 17 years ish 17 years ish um um um i i i yeah if you haven't heard of sherry yeah if you haven't heard of sherry yeah if you haven't heard of sherry walling she as i said she's a walling she as i said she's a walling she as i said she's a psychologist speaker podcaster she does psychologist speaker podcaster she does psychologist speaker podcaster she does yoga she yoga she yoga she it says yoga teacher yeah in the bio and it says yoga teacher yeah in the bio and it says yoga teacher yeah in the bio and she runs zen founder which provides she runs zen founder which provides she runs zen founder which provides mental wellness resources to leaders and mental wellness resources to leaders and mental wellness resources to leaders and entrepreneurs as they navigate entrepreneurs as they navigate entrepreneurs as they navigate transition loss conflict or any manner transition loss conflict or any manner transition loss conflict or any manner of complex human experience she has of complex human experience she has of complex human experience she has written a best-selling book um called written a best-selling book um called written a best-selling book um called the entrepreneur's guide to keeping your the entrepreneur's guide to keeping your the entrepreneur's guide to keeping your [ __ ] together it's available in audio [ __ ] together it's available in audio [ __ ] together it's available in audio format on audible kindle uh anything on

format on audible kindle uh anything on format on audible kindle uh anything on amazon paperback as well amazon paperback as well amazon paperback as well and that's been it's a it's an evergreen and that's been it's a it's an evergreen and that's been it's a it's an evergreen book about how hard it is to be an book about how hard it is to be an book about how hard it is to be an entrepreneur and then she's releasing entrepreneur and then she's releasing entrepreneur and then she's releasing her next book touching two worlds which her next book touching two worlds which her next book touching two worlds which explores new strategies for finding explores new strategies for finding explores new strategies for finding wholeness in the aftermath of loss um wholeness in the aftermath of loss um wholeness in the aftermath of loss um that comes out in july but you can that comes out in july but you can that comes out in july but you can pre-order it today if you head to pre-order it today if you head to pre-order it today if you head to touching2worlds.com so before i bring on the show we dive so before i bring on the show we dive into our into our into our six habits of six habits of six habits of highly effective entrepreneurs kind of highly effective entrepreneurs kind of highly effective entrepreneurs kind of kind of what it's going to wind up being kind of what it's going to wind up being kind of what it's going to wind up being um i wanted to we have kind of a cool um i wanted to we have kind of a cool um i wanted to we have kind of a cool announcement that pipe pipe.com announcement that pipe pipe.com announcement that pipe pipe.com uh is we don't have a partnership with uh is we don't have a partnership with uh is we don't have a partnership with microconf so pipe is alternative microconf so pipe is alternative microconf so pipe is alternative financing and if you want to learn more financing and if you want to learn more financing and if you want to learn more about them and how they allow you to about them and how they allow you to about them and how they allow you to return they allow sas companies to treat return they allow sas companies to treat return they allow sas companies to treat their recurring revenue streams as an their recurring revenue streams as an their recurring revenue streams as an asset asset asset head to microconf.com head to microconf.com head to microconf.com pipe and we'll be diving more into that pipe and we'll be diving more into that pipe and we'll be diving more into that in the coming weeks and months you'll be in the coming weeks and months you'll be in the coming weeks and months you'll be hearing more hearing more hearing more about pipe and our partnership and with about pipe and our partnership and with about pipe and our partnership and with that that that i'd love to welcome dr sherry walling to i'd love to welcome dr sherry walling to i'd love to welcome dr sherry walling to the show the show the show well how's it going hey i love that you well how's it going hey i love that you well how's it going hey i love that you had to read my bio well not cool i had to read my bio well not cool i had to read my bio well not cool i didn't have to but he does yoga i know didn't have to but he does yoga i know didn't have to but he does yoga i know it's like it says yoga in her bio so i it's like it says yoga in her bio so i it's like it says yoga in her bio so i feel like i need to say it and i wonder feel like i need to say it and i wonder feel like i need to say it and i wonder if if if did your mic pick that up did your mic pick that up did your mic pick that up all right my books on my book super all right my books on my book super all right my books on my book super annoying so i uh it's always great to annoying so i uh it's always great to annoying so i uh it's always great to chat with you i know that we had the chat with you i know that we had the chat with you i know that we had the conversation about conversation about conversation about habits of breakfast and got the kids on habits of breakfast and got the kids on habits of breakfast and got the kids on the bus and all that um successful

the bus and all that um successful the bus and all that um successful entrepreneurs we had this conversation entrepreneurs we had this conversation entrepreneurs we had this conversation at the microcomp locals and so here we at the microcomp locals and so here we at the microcomp locals and so here we are to revisit did you realize that any are to revisit did you realize that any are to revisit did you realize that any of the things um would you have the of the things um would you have the of the things um would you have the realization that any of your your three realization that any of your your three realization that any of your your three or four or four or four habits are no longer valid were they not habits are no longer valid were they not habits are no longer valid were they not evergreen did they change once daylight evergreen did they change once daylight evergreen did they change once daylight savings time happened savings time happened savings time happened daylight savings screwed them up daylight savings screwed them up daylight savings screwed them up yeah no i think the things that make yeah no i think the things that make yeah no i think the things that make people performers and help them to be people performers and help them to be people performers and help them to be focused as entrepreneurs are pretty focused as entrepreneurs are pretty focused as entrepreneurs are pretty consistent so uh consistent so uh consistent so uh although the world ebbs and flows and although the world ebbs and flows and although the world ebbs and flows and different challenges arise these are different challenges arise these are different challenges arise these are really about being flexible in light of really about being flexible in light of really about being flexible in light of the changing sort of landscape of the the changing sort of landscape of the the changing sort of landscape of the world around you world around you world around you so should i jump right in well said yeah so should i jump right in well said yeah so should i jump right in well said yeah my first one my first one my first one so when i think about so when i think about so when i think about habits or ways of being that um really habits or ways of being that um really habits or ways of being that um really determine how successful someone will be determine how successful someone will be determine how successful someone will be or habits of successful entrepreneurs is or habits of successful entrepreneurs is or habits of successful entrepreneurs is the first one that i came up with is the first one that i came up with is the first one that i came up with is having a sense of intentionality and how having a sense of intentionality and how having a sense of intentionality and how you work you work you work and for me this means and for me this means and for me this means being mindful and planful in thinking being mindful and planful in thinking being mindful and planful in thinking through through through how you organize your days and your time how you organize your days and your time how you organize your days and your time to avoid the trap of being reactive to avoid the trap of being reactive to avoid the trap of being reactive so i think um one habit that is not so i think um one habit that is not so i think um one habit that is not helpful helpful helpful is you know jumping into your email is you know jumping into your email is you know jumping into your email first thing in the day and that that first thing in the day and that that first thing in the day and that that then determines your to-do list that then determines your to-do list that then determines your to-do list that determines what you do in a day but i determines what you do in a day but i determines what you do in a day but i think entrepreneurs who are really think entrepreneurs who are really think entrepreneurs who are really effective in using their effort and effective in using their effort and effective in using their effort and their time well are very intentional so their time well are very intentional so their time well are very intentional so maybe they have seasons where they are maybe they have seasons where they are maybe they have seasons where they are sprinting where they're working really

sprinting where they're working really sprinting where they're working really hard focused on a launch putting in long hard focused on a launch putting in long hard focused on a launch putting in long hours but then they have a season where hours but then they have a season where hours but then they have a season where there's relative rest where they're there's relative rest where they're there's relative rest where they're thinking about maintaining processes or thinking about maintaining processes or thinking about maintaining processes or doing big picture planning so having a doing big picture planning so having a doing big picture planning so having a thoughtful strategy around what thoughtful strategy around what thoughtful strategy around what kind of work is kind of work is kind of work is required on any given day and any required on any given day and any required on any given day and any different sort of point different sort of point different sort of point of your business i think is really of your business i think is really of your business i think is really really helpful really helpful really helpful yeah and it sounds like it's a fractal yeah and it sounds like it's a fractal yeah and it sounds like it's a fractal where where where it's you're talking about in an hour or it's you're talking about in an hour or it's you're talking about in an hour or a day but then also a day but then also a day but then also being intentional in a week and also being intentional in a week and also being intentional in a week and also being intentional in a year right of being intentional in a year right of being intentional in a year right of having i mean i think seasons is having i mean i think seasons is having i mean i think seasons is something that we've talked about quite something that we've talked about quite something that we've talked about quite a bit of a bit of a bit of sometimes i'm going to have a season of sometimes i'm going to have a season of sometimes i'm going to have a season of 60-hour weeks i don't do that so much 60-hour weeks i don't do that so much 60-hour weeks i don't do that so much anymore but i remember when i bought hit anymore but i remember when i bought hit anymore but i remember when i bought hit tail and i said i'm gonna have about two tail and i said i'm gonna have about two tail and i said i'm gonna have about two months three months here where it's months three months here where it's months three months here where it's gonna be nights and weekends plus full gonna be nights and weekends plus full gonna be nights and weekends plus full days but i'm not gonna do that forever days but i'm not gonna do that forever days but i'm not gonna do that forever right yeah and it was and that i think i right yeah and it was and that i think i right yeah and it was and that i think i was very intentional about that right was very intentional about that right was very intentional about that right and we spoke and we spoke and we spoke about that versus sometimes it catches about that versus sometimes it catches about that versus sometimes it catches you off guard and i think the real the you off guard and i think the real the you off guard and i think the real the times when i've been reactive to things times when i've been reactive to things times when i've been reactive to things are the times when i like my work the are the times when i like my work the are the times when i like my work the least usually that's actually when i get least usually that's actually when i get least usually that's actually when i get really stressed out really stressed out really stressed out it's important to be able to sort of it's important to be able to sort of it's important to be able to sort of pick your head up from any given task pick your head up from any given task pick your head up from any given task and know what you're doing and why and and know what you're doing and why and and know what you're doing and why and how it fits into the larger goal and how it fits into the larger goal and how it fits into the larger goal and intention for your business intention for your business intention for your business yeah so that's i like the word intention yeah so that's i like the word intention yeah so that's i like the word intention because it's not so much about like because it's not so much about like because it's not so much about like having a miracle morning habit or doing having a miracle morning habit or doing having a miracle morning habit or doing this task at this time in the day

this task at this time in the day this task at this time in the day um but it's it's just really being able um but it's it's just really being able um but it's it's just really being able to hold that bigger picture of what your to hold that bigger picture of what your to hold that bigger picture of what your effort means and why you're allocating effort means and why you're allocating effort means and why you're allocating it in the way that you are at a given it in the way that you are at a given it in the way that you are at a given time time time yeah i think that's well said and i i yeah i think that's well said and i i yeah i think that's well said and i i feel like having we'll probably touch on feel like having we'll probably touch on feel like having we'll probably touch on this again but like this again but like this again but like having a co-founder or a having a co-founder or a having a co-founder or a partner or a mastermind or like those partner or a mastermind or like those partner or a mastermind or like those folks can help with this not to keep you folks can help with this not to keep you folks can help with this not to keep you accountable but i think to accountable but i think to accountable but i think to a lot of us you know have the a lot of us you know have the a lot of us you know have the entrepreneurial add and i think having entrepreneurial add and i think having entrepreneurial add and i think having intentionality and sticking to something intentionality and sticking to something intentionality and sticking to something um um um is is is challenging and i think some of us do challenging and i think some of us do challenging and i think some of us do need accountability it actually leads need accountability it actually leads need accountability it actually leads into my first habit of successful into my first habit of successful into my first habit of successful entrepreneurs is focus entrepreneurs is focus entrepreneurs is focus shiny object syndrome is is a big thing shiny object syndrome is is a big thing shiny object syndrome is is a big thing with entrepreneurs a lot of us are with entrepreneurs a lot of us are with entrepreneurs a lot of us are ambitious motivated we want to get a ambitious motivated we want to get a ambitious motivated we want to get a bunch of stuff done bunch of stuff done bunch of stuff done but a lot of us but a lot of us but a lot of us wind up being wind up being wind up being distracted and i've seen folks with a distracted and i've seen folks with a distracted and i've seen folks with a lot of it depends on your personality so lot of it depends on your personality so lot of it depends on your personality so know thyself but uh you know some folks know thyself but uh you know some folks know thyself but uh you know some folks who i see have kind of middling success who i see have kind of middling success who i see have kind of middling success in their startup in their startup in their startup start like bouncing around instead of start like bouncing around instead of start like bouncing around instead of focusing on the hard stuff like putting focusing on the hard stuff like putting focusing on the hard stuff like putting in the hard work on on the grind in the hard work on on the grind in the hard work on on the grind of cranking out the seo the next article of cranking out the seo the next article of cranking out the seo the next article or the next thing that's kind of working or the next thing that's kind of working or the next thing that's kind of working and doubling down on that it's like well and doubling down on that it's like well and doubling down on that it's like well i'm gonna go try this new thing i'm i'm gonna go try this new thing i'm i'm gonna go try this new thing i'm gonna translate my app into another gonna translate my app into another gonna translate my app into another language well i'm gonna and it's just language well i'm gonna and it's just language well i'm gonna and it's just like bounce back bounce bounce and those like bounce back bounce bounce and those like bounce back bounce bounce and those are more high level things but i think are more high level things but i think are more high level things but i think even in a given day i don't know if even in a given day i don't know if even in a given day i don't know if you've ever sat next to someone who you've ever sat next to someone who you've ever sat next to someone who can't sit and focus long enough to just can't sit and focus long enough to just can't sit and focus long enough to just get through email maybe maybe our 15

get through email maybe maybe our 15 get through email maybe maybe our 15 year old year old year old thinking about i'm like do one thing thinking about i'm like do one thing thinking about i'm like do one thing yep yep i i do think that that that yep yep i i do think that that that yep yep i i do think that that that challenge with focus is is the shadow challenge with focus is is the shadow challenge with focus is is the shadow side of a great entrepreneurial strength side of a great entrepreneurial strength side of a great entrepreneurial strength so most entrepreneurs are really capable so most entrepreneurs are really capable so most entrepreneurs are really capable of divergent thinking you know they of divergent thinking you know they of divergent thinking you know they don't necessarily think in linear ways don't necessarily think in linear ways don't necessarily think in linear ways they're capable of like jumping in they're capable of like jumping in they're capable of like jumping in and and and and being really intrigued by a new and being really intrigued by a new and being really intrigued by a new problem so there's a lot of curiosity problem so there's a lot of curiosity problem so there's a lot of curiosity that goes along with entrepreneur sort that goes along with entrepreneur sort that goes along with entrepreneur sort of mentality or mindset and so i think of mentality or mindset and so i think of mentality or mindset and so i think those things are really important but those things are really important but those things are really important but the downside of it is the downside of it is the downside of it is sometimes it's just lots and lots of sometimes it's just lots and lots of sometimes it's just lots and lots of distractions so being able to honor that distractions so being able to honor that distractions so being able to honor that your brain is capable of maybe a lot of your brain is capable of maybe a lot of your brain is capable of maybe a lot of hopping from one thing to another but hopping from one thing to another but hopping from one thing to another but it's not always helpful for your it's not always helpful for your it's not always helpful for your business business business yeah and the hard part is there is some yeah and the hard part is there is some yeah and the hard part is there is some judgment involved right there are judgment involved right there are judgment involved right there are i do know some entrepreneurs who i do know some entrepreneurs who i do know some entrepreneurs who have been working on a problem and their have been working on a problem and their have been working on a problem and their product is doing okay product is doing okay product is doing okay and an opportunity comes along that's and an opportunity comes along that's and an opportunity comes along that's tangential to it or related to it or tangential to it or related to it or tangential to it or related to it or they discovered it because they're they discovered it because they're they discovered it because they're working on this problem and it's a much working on this problem and it's a much working on this problem and it's a much bigger and actually objectively better bigger and actually objectively better bigger and actually objectively better opportunity but it's hard to see that at opportunity but it's hard to see that at opportunity but it's hard to see that at the time but in retrospect it is the time but in retrospect it is the time but in retrospect it is but for me it's like but for me it's like but for me it's like 95 98 out of 100 that's not a good idea 95 98 out of 100 that's not a good idea 95 98 out of 100 that's not a good idea like most i think most people just want like most i think most people just want like most i think most people just want to give up too early and want to bounce to give up too early and want to bounce to give up too early and want to bounce from the one to the next to the next to from the one to the next to the next to from the one to the next to the next to the next and you have this string of ten the next and you have this string of ten the next and you have this string of ten failures that you put six to twelve failures that you put six to twelve failures that you put six to twelve months in each instead of like one of months in each instead of like one of months in each instead of like one of those probably would have worked you those probably would have worked you those probably would have worked you know know know um but there are edge cases and that's um but there are edge cases and that's um but there are edge cases and that's where the judgment comes in it's not a

where the judgment comes in it's not a where the judgment comes in it's not a 100 of the time you should always 100 of the time you should always 100 of the time you should always continue on this and that's continue on this and that's continue on this and that's the the challenge of entrepreneurship is the the challenge of entrepreneurship is the the challenge of entrepreneurship is making hard decisions with incomplete making hard decisions with incomplete making hard decisions with incomplete information information information right and no good advice ever includes right and no good advice ever includes right and no good advice ever includes the words always and never period the words always and never period the words always and never period never it never includes the word that never it never includes the word that never it never includes the word that was great i was waiting for that it was great i was waiting for that it was great i was waiting for that it really met a level with you um and i really met a level with you um and i really met a level with you um and i think that's another place where think that's another place where think that's another place where um a coach a mastermind just a safe um a coach a mastermind just a safe um a coach a mastermind just a safe trust and sounding board who has a sense trust and sounding board who has a sense trust and sounding board who has a sense of your business can be really helpful of your business can be really helpful of your business can be really helpful here and in trying to discern whether it here and in trying to discern whether it here and in trying to discern whether it is an exception to the focus rule or you is an exception to the focus rule or you is an exception to the focus rule or you know whether it's something that you know whether it's something that you know whether it's something that you need to just slog through need to just slog through need to just slog through yeah i forgot to mention at the top of yeah i forgot to mention at the top of yeah i forgot to mention at the top of the show if you're watching this live the show if you're watching this live the show if you're watching this live you should drop any questions you have you should drop any questions you have you should drop any questions you have for us in the microconf connect slack for us in the microconf connect slack for us in the microconf connect slack micro comp on air channel or you can micro comp on air channel or you can micro comp on air channel or you can head to youtube and there are there's a head to youtube and there are there's a head to youtube and there are there's a chat there and producer xander will chat there and producer xander will chat there and producer xander will bring those questions for us bring those questions for us bring those questions for us what's your number two what's your number two what's your number two uh my number two tactic or strategy for uh my number two tactic or strategy for uh my number two tactic or strategy for successful entrepreneurs is really to successful entrepreneurs is really to successful entrepreneurs is really to invest in relationships invest in relationships invest in relationships and i think for some this can feel a and i think for some this can feel a and i think for some this can feel a little bit um counterintuitive you know little bit um counterintuitive you know little bit um counterintuitive you know i think people think about building i think people think about building i think people think about building certainly a sas company and they think certainly a sas company and they think certainly a sas company and they think about like the tech and the strategy and about like the tech and the strategy and about like the tech and the strategy and the product market fit and all those the product market fit and all those the product market fit and all those things but things but things but most people who have really most people who have really most people who have really found that next level of success have found that next level of success have found that next level of success have done that because they have had done that because they have had done that because they have had mentors they've been a mentor they have mentors they've been a mentor they have mentors they've been a mentor they have super fans they have a community that super fans they have a community that super fans they have a community that really believes in them really believes in them really believes in them and so taking the time throughout the

and so taking the time throughout the and so taking the time throughout the development of your business to really development of your business to really development of your business to really nurture relationships both with people nurture relationships both with people nurture relationships both with people who can help you and people who you can who can help you and people who you can who can help you and people who you can help who then become your super fans and help who then become your super fans and help who then become your super fans and you know are people that you've invested you know are people that you've invested you know are people that you've invested in in in tends to be i think a great great tends to be i think a great great tends to be i think a great great investment that some entrepreneurs can investment that some entrepreneurs can investment that some entrepreneurs can overlook um overlook um overlook um to their detriment to their detriment to their detriment yeah which i did yeah which i did yeah which i did from 2005 to 2011 probably from 2005 to 2011 probably from 2005 to 2011 probably right i mean i was right i mean i was right i mean i was i was the the person who you know didn't i was the the person who you know didn't i was the the person who you know didn't want to work with anybody right because want to work with anybody right because want to work with anybody right because i didn't like working days because i didn't like working days because i didn't like working days because humans because humans because i had humans because humans because i had humans because humans because i had co-workers who didn't like co-workers who didn't like co-workers who didn't like so i figured well i guess i don't need so i figured well i guess i don't need so i figured well i guess i don't need co-workers right but that was it was a co-workers right but that was it was a co-workers right but that was it was a mistake um and in fact mistake um and in fact mistake um and in fact while i had enough success that i was while i had enough success that i was while i had enough success that i was able to quit my day job during those able to quit my day job during those able to quit my day job during those years i didn't move very quickly and i i years i didn't move very quickly and i i years i didn't move very quickly and i i could have got there faster i think i could have got there faster i think i could have got there faster i think i could have had you know more success could have had you know more success could have had you know more success however i would have defined that however i would have defined that however i would have defined that if i'd had if i'd had if i'd had more people around you know and it was more people around you know and it was more people around you know and it was i think it was 20 i think it was 20 i think it was 20 10 2011 right around the time 10 2011 right around the time 10 2011 right around the time that i real that i realized like i that i real that i realized like i that i real that i realized like i started a mastermind actually i started started a mastermind actually i started started a mastermind actually i started two masterminds around then uh we two masterminds around then uh we two masterminds around then uh we started microconf we already had the started microconf we already had the started microconf we already had the podcast and that was where i realized oh podcast and that was where i realized oh podcast and that was where i realized oh these relationships they really these relationships they really these relationships they really there really is something there really is something there really is something to to having a network and having uh you to to having a network and having uh you to to having a network and having uh you know know know a group of people that know you and that a group of people that know you and that a group of people that know you and that you can reach out to whether it's for you can reach out to whether it's for you can reach out to whether it's for favors or whether it's for help when you favors or whether it's for help when you favors or whether it's for help when you need it accountability opinions advice

need it accountability opinions advice need it accountability opinions advice you know you think about tiny seed and you know you think about tiny seed and you know you think about tiny seed and how quickly how quickly how quickly that came together like the our mentor that came together like the our mentor that came together like the our mentor page was filled within a week with like page was filled within a week with like page was filled within a week with like world-class sas experts and founders why world-class sas experts and founders why world-class sas experts and founders why is that well it's because i i didn't is that well it's because i i didn't is that well it's because i i didn't cold email steli efti and heaton shaw cold email steli efti and heaton shaw cold email steli efti and heaton shaw and you know who all the other people on and you know who all the other people on and you know who all the other people on that page laura roder i didn't cold that page laura roder i didn't cold that page laura roder i didn't cold email them like they had spoken at a email them like they had spoken at a email them like they had spoken at a microconf right or we had met at a microconf right or we had met at a microconf right or we had met at a microconf and there was a relationship microconf and there was a relationship microconf and there was a relationship there and so there and so there and so they don't the people on that page don't they don't the people on that page don't they don't the people on that page don't do things for anyone right they do things for anyone right they do things for anyone right they specifically said i don't know somebody specifically said i don't know somebody specifically said i don't know somebody said i don't normally do this but i'll said i don't normally do this but i'll said i don't normally do this but i'll do it because it's your thing and it's do it because it's your thing and it's do it because it's your thing and it's like well why did they say that well like well why did they say that well like well why did they say that well because they knew me and because they'd because they knew me and because they'd because they knew me and because they'd been to my you know it's like we had been to my you know it's like we had been to my you know it's like we had that prior relationship that prior relationship that prior relationship yeah i think one of my friends and yeah i think one of my friends and yeah i think one of my friends and mentors jason gaynard talks about how mentors jason gaynard talks about how mentors jason gaynard talks about how every business is community made even every business is community made even every business is community made even though there's one or two founders at though there's one or two founders at though there's one or two founders at the at the forefront the at the forefront the at the forefront every business that's successful is made every business that's successful is made every business that's successful is made by a group of people and i think if by a group of people and i think if by a group of people and i think if you're listening to this and you you you're listening to this and you you you're listening to this and you you don't know who your community is that's don't know who your community is that's don't know who your community is that's making your business with you then it be making your business with you then it be making your business with you then it be a good thing to think through because a good thing to think through because a good thing to think through because all of us all of us all of us are successful because you know people are successful because you know people are successful because you know people buy from us people believe in us people buy from us people believe in us people buy from us people believe in us people trust us trust us trust us and all of that is is a is relational and all of that is is a is relational and all of that is is a is relational capital capital capital we have a good question from the we have a good question from the we have a good question from the audience mushdah on youtube says any audience mushdah on youtube says any audience mushdah on youtube says any recommendations on how to turn off after recommendations on how to turn off after recommendations on how to turn off after the work day like mentally turn off it's the work day like mentally turn off it's the work day like mentally turn off it's hard to sleep well with so many business hard to sleep well with so many business hard to sleep well with so many business related thoughts racing related thoughts racing related thoughts racing um

um um great question i'm going to save that great question i'm going to save that great question i'm going to save that for my next tip because it's part of it for my next tip because it's part of it for my next tip because it's part of it so if i don't so if i don't so if i don't um answer it satisfactorily i'll you um answer it satisfactorily i'll you um answer it satisfactorily i'll you know prompts me again but that's part of know prompts me again but that's part of know prompts me again but that's part of my next uh next piece so what why don't my next uh next piece so what why don't my next uh next piece so what why don't you just roll right into that let's go you just roll right into that let's go you just roll right into that let's go for it okay for it okay for it okay so my other strategy that i think really so my other strategy that i think really so my other strategy that i think really helps to support success among helps to support success among helps to support success among entrepreneurs entrepreneurs entrepreneurs maybe somewhat surprisingly is that they maybe somewhat surprisingly is that they maybe somewhat surprisingly is that they have something else that they care about have something else that they care about have something else that they care about as you are identifying all business all as you are identifying all business all as you are identifying all business all the time is not helpful it's not helpful the time is not helpful it's not helpful the time is not helpful it's not helpful because our brains aren't meant to use because our brains aren't meant to use because our brains aren't meant to use the same neurological circuitry over and the same neurological circuitry over and the same neurological circuitry over and over and over so if you think about your over and over so if you think about your over and over so if you think about your brain as you know as an organ it's like brain as you know as an organ it's like brain as you know as an organ it's like powered by these electrical connections powered by these electrical connections powered by these electrical connections between neurons if we use the same ones between neurons if we use the same ones between neurons if we use the same ones over and over and over then we risk um over and over and over then we risk um over and over and over then we risk um you know venturing into burnout which you know venturing into burnout which you know venturing into burnout which i'm starting to think of as like a i'm starting to think of as like a i'm starting to think of as like a repetitive stress injury of our brain repetitive stress injury of our brain repetitive stress injury of our brain like we're just using the same thing like we're just using the same thing like we're just using the same thing over and over so if you really want to over and over so if you really want to over and over so if you really want to offset the danger that your brain will offset the danger that your brain will offset the danger that your brain will become overworked and you will keep become overworked and you will keep become overworked and you will keep thinking about the same things in thinking about the same things in thinking about the same things in patterns ad nauseam it is important to patterns ad nauseam it is important to patterns ad nauseam it is important to create other things in your life that create other things in your life that create other things in your life that are really important to you so for many are really important to you so for many are really important to you so for many that can be your relationships but it's that can be your relationships but it's that can be your relationships but it's also really important to have something also really important to have something also really important to have something else that you do another hobby else that you do another hobby else that you do another hobby a sport a sport a sport something that you do that uses really something that you do that uses really something that you do that uses really different circuitry within your brain different circuitry within your brain different circuitry within your brain that's important for neurological health

that's important for neurological health that's important for neurological health and it's important for creativity for and it's important for creativity for and it's important for creativity for divergent thinking for your brain being divergent thinking for your brain being divergent thinking for your brain being healthy over the long term of your life healthy over the long term of your life healthy over the long term of your life it is also helpful for you to be able to it is also helpful for you to be able to it is also helpful for you to be able to kind of easily easily change the kind of easily easily change the kind of easily easily change the channels in your brain if you will channels in your brain if you will channels in your brain if you will so as you are so as you are so as you are going through your days having other going through your days having other going through your days having other things that you care about super helpful things that you care about super helpful things that you care about super helpful specifically as you think about specifically as you think about specifically as you think about transitioning away from business transitioning away from business transitioning away from business thinking into other kinds of thinking thinking into other kinds of thinking thinking into other kinds of thinking like you know maybe you're getting ready like you know maybe you're getting ready like you know maybe you're getting ready for bed and all of those to do's are for bed and all of those to do's are for bed and all of those to do's are circulating in your mind and it's hard circulating in your mind and it's hard circulating in your mind and it's hard to rest and get ready to sleep to rest and get ready to sleep to rest and get ready to sleep it's really helpful to just keep a it's really helpful to just keep a it's really helpful to just keep a journal beside your bed and get all of journal beside your bed and get all of journal beside your bed and get all of those thoughts out get all your to do those thoughts out get all your to do those thoughts out get all your to do list everything that's circulating in list everything that's circulating in list everything that's circulating in your brain that's business related and your brain that's business related and your brain that's business related and you might be writing for a while i you might be writing for a while i you might be writing for a while i understand understand understand but write it down get it out so that but write it down get it out so that but write it down get it out so that your brain is satisfied that those your brain is satisfied that those your brain is satisfied that those thoughts have a landing place and your thoughts have a landing place and your thoughts have a landing place and your brain is not worried about repeating brain is not worried about repeating brain is not worried about repeating them over and over so you'll remember them over and over so you'll remember them over and over so you'll remember them them them so those are two tricks one make sure so those are two tricks one make sure so those are two tricks one make sure you have something else you care about you have something else you care about you have something else you care about the second is keep a notebook by your the second is keep a notebook by your the second is keep a notebook by your bed so that you can kind of purge your bed so that you can kind of purge your bed so that you can kind of purge your mind of those thoughts uh so you can mind of those thoughts uh so you can mind of those thoughts uh so you can sleep well sleep well sleep well very nice very nice very nice good advice doctor good advice doctor good advice doctor my second tip is my second tip is my second tip is it's kind of almost my second and third it's kind of almost my second and third it's kind of almost my second and third are so similar the second one is are so similar the second one is are so similar the second one is willingness to make mistakes it's the willingness to make mistakes it's the willingness to make mistakes it's the ability to take risks and try things ability to take risks and try things ability to take risks and try things that aren't going to work out

that aren't going to work out that aren't going to work out i think the fear of failure keeps us i think the fear of failure keeps us i think the fear of failure keeps us from trying ambitious things often doing from trying ambitious things often doing from trying ambitious things often doing that price increase that you should that price increase that you should that price increase that you should really should do to improve the business really should do to improve the business really should do to improve the business or making this taking the sales calls or making this taking the sales calls or making this taking the sales calls doing live sales demos aren't that fun doing live sales demos aren't that fun doing live sales demos aren't that fun but they can really push your business but they can really push your business but they can really push your business forward but it's like what if i say forward but it's like what if i say forward but it's like what if i say something stupid what if i don't close something stupid what if i don't close something stupid what if i don't close the sale what the fear of rejection the sale what the fear of rejection the sale what the fear of rejection and and and often these things are what you need to often these things are what you need to often these things are what you need to push into push into push into you know the things that i fear or or you know the things that i fear or or you know the things that i fear or or don't want to do day to day i always don't want to do day to day i always don't want to do day to day i always question is it because it's boring and i question is it because it's boring and i question is it because it's boring and i should hire someone to do it or is it should hire someone to do it or is it should hire someone to do it or is it something i should actually lean into as something i should actually lean into as something i should actually lean into as an entrepreneur and is that going to be an entrepreneur and is that going to be an entrepreneur and is that going to be my area of growth and is that going to my area of growth and is that going to my area of growth and is that going to be how i break through because do you be how i break through because do you be how i break through because do you know entrepreneurship is a lot about know entrepreneurship is a lot about know entrepreneurship is a lot about doing hard things that are complex um doing hard things that are complex um doing hard things that are complex um what do you think on that what do you think on that what do you think on that yeah i think yeah i think yeah i think as an entrepreneur you you are always in as an entrepreneur you you are always in as an entrepreneur you you are always in some margin of growth like you're always some margin of growth like you're always some margin of growth like you're always in a place that you haven't been before in a place that you haven't been before in a place that you haven't been before if your business is growing then you're if your business is growing then you're if your business is growing then you're learning how to run a business of a learning how to run a business of a learning how to run a business of a certain size or run a team of a certain certain size or run a team of a certain certain size or run a team of a certain size or manage revenue of a certain size size or manage revenue of a certain size size or manage revenue of a certain size if your business is not growing if it's if your business is not growing if it's if your business is not growing if it's struggling then you're solving different struggling then you're solving different struggling then you're solving different problems so i think problems so i think problems so i think any point in your life as an any point in your life as an any point in your life as an entrepreneur you're in a place of entrepreneur you're in a place of entrepreneur you're in a place of of uncertainty where you don't have of uncertainty where you don't have of uncertainty where you don't have perfect competence and that's a hard perfect competence and that's a hard perfect competence and that's a hard reality it's a hard sort of emotional reality it's a hard sort of emotional reality it's a hard sort of emotional space to live in where mistakes are space to live in where mistakes are space to live in where mistakes are always possible where failure is always always possible where failure is always always possible where failure is always possible because you're just not possible because you're just not possible because you're just not perfectly competent in that particular perfectly competent in that particular perfectly competent in that particular challenge challenge challenge and i think that that's a big part of

and i think that that's a big part of and i think that that's a big part of the emotional battle of entrepreneurship the emotional battle of entrepreneurship the emotional battle of entrepreneurship is just getting comfortable there is just getting comfortable there is just getting comfortable there where where where you're tolerant of your own mistakes and you're tolerant of your own mistakes and you're tolerant of your own mistakes and you're okay to take thoughtful risks in you're okay to take thoughtful risks in you're okay to take thoughtful risks in these directions where you haven't these directions where you haven't these directions where you haven't developed your competence yet developed your competence yet developed your competence yet yep yep yep and you know there's a question and you know there's a question and you know there's a question from the audience regarding willingness from the audience regarding willingness from the audience regarding willingness to be wrong where do you draw that line to be wrong where do you draw that line to be wrong where do you draw that line in terms of risk in terms of risk in terms of risk and this is always that that one i have and this is always that that one i have and this is always that that one i have where it does depend on your personality where it does depend on your personality where it does depend on your personality on your place in life but i think if on your place in life but i think if on your place in life but i think if you're putting things on the line that you're putting things on the line that you're putting things on the line that you know have a have a decent chance of you know have a have a decent chance of you know have a have a decent chance of being detrimental to your life like not being detrimental to your life like not being detrimental to your life like not making like losing a house or having making like losing a house or having making like losing a house or having fifty thousand dollars in credit card fifty thousand dollars in credit card fifty thousand dollars in credit card debt to me that's just that's debt to me that's just that's debt to me that's just that's irresponsible levels of risk now you'll irresponsible levels of risk now you'll irresponsible levels of risk now you'll hear some founders do this and they get hear some founders do this and they get hear some founders do this and they get successful and so successful and so successful and so should you do that but i to me nine should you do that but i to me nine should you do that but i to me nine times out of ten times out of ten times out of ten that's not gonna work out and i i think that's not gonna work out and i i think that's not gonna work out and i i think that's i often gauge things that's i often gauge things that's i often gauge things on on on if this doesn't work out what are the if this doesn't work out what are the if this doesn't work out what are the long-term detrimental effects right i long-term detrimental effects right i long-term detrimental effects right i mean i spent thirty thousand dollars to mean i spent thirty thousand dollars to mean i spent thirty thousand dollars to buy hit tail buy hit tail buy hit tail in 2011. the upside to that was in 2011. the upside to that was in 2011. the upside to that was substantial right it made substantial right it made substantial right it made hundreds and hundreds of thousands of hundreds and hundreds of thousands of hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars for us over the long term dollars for us over the long term dollars for us over the long term but the downside was that i lost thirty but the downside was that i lost thirty but the downside was that i lost thirty thousand dollars that i had in the bank thousand dollars that i had in the bank thousand dollars that i had in the bank my dui had earned in the business my dui had earned in the business my dui had earned in the business so the risk was there was risk but it so the risk was there was risk but it so the risk was there was risk but it wasn't i wasn't taking out a mortgage on wasn't i wasn't taking out a mortgage on wasn't i wasn't taking out a mortgage on the house that then i couldn't make a the house that then i couldn't make a the house that then i couldn't make a house payment on right it's different house payment on right it's different house payment on right it's different different risk and i think different risk and i think different risk and i think even in the the smaller risks you can

even in the the smaller risks you can even in the the smaller risks you can control control control your preparation you can control your your preparation you can control your your preparation you can control your practice you can control practice you can control practice you can control you know the number of times that you you know the number of times that you you know the number of times that you think it through like think it through like think it through like i think that risk should not be confused i think that risk should not be confused i think that risk should not be confused with like with like with like sloppy half-assed effort sloppy half-assed effort sloppy half-assed effort um risk is very thoughtful and um risk is very thoughtful and um risk is very thoughtful and intentional it's you know i think about intentional it's you know i think about intentional it's you know i think about it so if i could tell a trapeze story in it so if i could tell a trapeze story in it so if i could tell a trapeze story in my side life i'm a circus artist and my side life i'm a circus artist and my side life i'm a circus artist and i've been working a lot on the flying i've been working a lot on the flying i've been working a lot on the flying trapeze which is a very risky sport um trapeze which is a very risky sport um trapeze which is a very risky sport um it's you know spinal cord injuries are it's you know spinal cord injuries are it's you know spinal cord injuries are sort of sort of sort of easy to get um and so with it's a lot easy to get um and so with it's a lot easy to get um and so with it's a lot about calculating risk and i have to about calculating risk and i have to about calculating risk and i have to think how many times have i practiced think how many times have i practiced think how many times have i practiced this trick before i try to do it outside this trick before i try to do it outside this trick before i try to do it outside of safety lines or how many times do i of safety lines or how many times do i of safety lines or how many times do i drill the basics of my swing so that i drill the basics of my swing so that i drill the basics of my swing so that i know that i am in control of my body and know that i am in control of my body and know that i am in control of my body and safe as safe as i can be and so those safe as safe as i can be and so those safe as safe as i can be and so those basics being in place basics being in place basics being in place is really really important on any risk is really really important on any risk is really really important on any risk that you're taking and and that's that's that you're taking and and that's that's that you're taking and and that's that's controllable by you that's something controllable by you that's something controllable by you that's something that you can that you can that you can you know put the work in to make sure you know put the work in to make sure you know put the work in to make sure that your your risks are as thoughtful that your your risks are as thoughtful that your your risks are as thoughtful as possible as possible as possible and that makes it a little safer to make and that makes it a little safer to make and that makes it a little safer to make mistakes mistakes mistakes before i dive into my third and final before i dive into my third and final before i dive into my third and final habit of successful entrepreneurs habit of successful entrepreneurs habit of successful entrepreneurs i want to let you know that if you want i want to let you know that if you want i want to let you know that if you want to see sherry and i in person in about to see sherry and i in person in about to see sherry and i in person in about two weeks two and a half weeks april two weeks two and a half weeks april two weeks two and a half weeks april third through that soon yeah whoa

third through that soon yeah whoa third through that soon yeah whoa we both have to write talks for that so we both have to write talks for that so we both have to write talks for that so sherry is speaking a biker of clothes sherry is speaking a biker of clothes sherry is speaking a biker of clothes here no well here no well here no well yeah i don't i yeah i don't i yeah i don't i the good thing xander's not listening to the good thing xander's not listening to the good thing xander's not listening to this and doesn't know you haven't this and doesn't know you haven't this and doesn't know you haven't written and built a single slide written and built a single slide written and built a single slide um why are you outing me neither have um why are you outing me neither have um why are you outing me neither have you you you i know but that's that's how i roll i know but that's that's how i roll i know but that's that's how i roll though right i do it every time april though right i do it every time april though right i do it every time april third through fifth microcomp growth you third through fifth microcomp growth you third through fifth microcomp growth you can add to microcontroller.com growth can add to microcontroller.com growth can add to microcontroller.com growth there are still a few tickets available there are still a few tickets available there are still a few tickets available but you are talking about a super but you are talking about a super but you are talking about a super interesting topic you want to give folks interesting topic you want to give folks interesting topic you want to give folks like a one sentence summary of uh what like a one sentence summary of uh what like a one sentence summary of uh what you'll be talking about about the you'll be talking about about the you'll be talking about about the psychology of exiting psychology of exiting psychology of exiting um um um which is surprisingly like a really which is surprisingly like a really which is surprisingly like a really important topic that i don't think gets important topic that i don't think gets important topic that i don't think gets addressed much it shows up in my addressed much it shows up in my addressed much it shows up in my consulting work all the time as founders consulting work all the time as founders consulting work all the time as founders are considering an exit or in the middle are considering an exit or in the middle are considering an exit or in the middle of an exit or our post exit and all of a of an exit or our post exit and all of a of an exit or our post exit and all of a sudden they find that their sudden they find that their sudden they find that their psychological well-being can take a psychological well-being can take a psychological well-being can take a nosedive so we're going to talk about nosedive so we're going to talk about nosedive so we're going to talk about that and i'll give you some tips to try that and i'll give you some tips to try that and i'll give you some tips to try to prevent some of the to prevent some of the to prevent some of the the challenge that can go along with an the challenge that can go along with an the challenge that can go along with an exit yep ever like i say everyone sells exit yep ever like i say everyone sells exit yep ever like i say everyone sells everyone exits at some point and everyone exits at some point and everyone exits at some point and i say it a little facetiously because i say it a little facetiously because i say it a little facetiously because that's an always or never but i didn't that's an always or never but i didn't that's an always or never but i didn't think mailchimp was gonna sell i didn't think mailchimp was gonna sell i didn't think mailchimp was gonna sell i didn't think i didn't know that drip was gonna think i didn't know that drip was gonna think i didn't know that drip was gonna sell i never thought like barometrics sell i never thought like barometrics sell i never thought like barometrics with there's all these companies that i with there's all these companies that i with there's all these companies that i can list and it's like oh they sold like can list and it's like oh they sold like can list and it's like oh they sold like i fully expect you know maybe base i fully expect you know maybe base i fully expect you know maybe base camp's the one that will never sell but camp's the one that will never sell but camp's the one that will never sell but you know it's gonna i mean at some point you know it's gonna i mean at some point you know it's gonna i mean at some point there will be some there will be some there will be some version of an ending though unless version of an ending though unless version of an ending though unless unless we think dhh and jason are gonna unless we think dhh and jason are gonna unless we think dhh and jason are gonna live forever right so what do you mean live forever right so what do you mean live forever right so what do you mean so

so so cryo cryo cryo sleep because that's not living yeah i sleep because that's not living yeah i sleep because that's not living yeah i don't know we're off on a weird tangent don't know we're off on a weird tangent don't know we're off on a weird tangent but anyways uh microcom.com growth if but anyways uh microcom.com growth if but anyways uh microcom.com growth if you want to come you want to come you want to come see us in person my sixth and well i see us in person my sixth and well i see us in person my sixth and well i guess it's my third but our sixth and guess it's my third but our sixth and guess it's my third but our sixth and final habit of successful entrepreneurs final habit of successful entrepreneurs final habit of successful entrepreneurs is successful entrepreneurs is successful entrepreneurs is successful entrepreneurs move quickly move quickly move quickly they get a lot of things done and they they get a lot of things done and they they get a lot of things done and they take action instead of waiting in take action instead of waiting in take action instead of waiting in indecision indecision indecision and this one's an interesting one and this one's an interesting one and this one's an interesting one because it's because it's because it's i s i s i s this ties into the other one i said this ties into the other one i said this ties into the other one i said about um you know willingness to make about um you know willingness to make about um you know willingness to make mistakes right i think that fear of mistakes right i think that fear of mistakes right i think that fear of mistakes can cause you to move slowly mistakes can cause you to move slowly mistakes can cause you to move slowly because you over deliberate things and a because you over deliberate things and a because you over deliberate things and a lot of the successful founders i see a lot of the successful founders i see a lot of the successful founders i see a are willing to make that mistake but b are willing to make that mistake but b are willing to make that mistake but b they will make quick decisions they they will make quick decisions they they will make quick decisions they don't need to um they'll make quick don't need to um they'll make quick don't need to um they'll make quick decisions on the two-way doors on the decisions on the two-way doors on the decisions on the two-way doors on the things that they can go back things that they can go back things that they can go back you know go back from basically that can you know go back from basically that can you know go back from basically that can undo undo undo decisions like selling your company or decisions like selling your company or decisions like selling your company or taking investment like these are kind of taking investment like these are kind of taking investment like these are kind of mostly undoable decisions so those you mostly undoable decisions so those you mostly undoable decisions so those you obviously need to give a lot of thought obviously need to give a lot of thought obviously need to give a lot of thought about about about but things like getting a marketing site but things like getting a marketing site but things like getting a marketing site up getting these seo articles done up getting these seo articles done up getting these seo articles done hiring someone you know these are all hiring someone you know these are all hiring someone you know these are all undoable decisions and undoable decisions and undoable decisions and some people i see take some people i see take some people i see take two days to do one of those and a two days to do one of those and a two days to do one of those and a different person can take 30 days to do different person can take 30 days to do different person can take 30 days to do one of those because they deliberate or one of those because they deliberate or one of those because they deliberate or they move slowly or they get distracted they move slowly or they get distracted they move slowly or they get distracted or whatever it is or whatever it is or whatever it is and the folks who i see moving quickly and the folks who i see moving quickly and the folks who i see moving quickly as long as they're not flailing because as long as they're not flailing because as long as they're not flailing because you can also just do a bunch of floppy

you can also just do a bunch of floppy you can also just do a bunch of floppy right it's not churn like you're just right it's not churn like you're just right it's not churn like you're just churning around you know burning through churning around you know burning through churning around you know burning through time as long as it's not that that this time as long as it's not that that this time as long as it's not that that this is definitely a i think a factor in is definitely a i think a factor in is definitely a i think a factor in being a successful entrepreneur being a successful entrepreneur being a successful entrepreneur and it's that balance between being and it's that balance between being and it's that balance between being intentional and focused and then also in intentional and focused and then also in intentional and focused and then also in motion like moving motion like moving motion like moving so i think you know there's obviously so i think you know there's obviously so i think you know there's obviously some nuance when you combine these some nuance when you combine these some nuance when you combine these different different different elements that we've talked about today elements that we've talked about today elements that we've talked about today but i do think that people who really but i do think that people who really but i do think that people who really languish in indecision or uncertainty languish in indecision or uncertainty languish in indecision or uncertainty first of all they're just first of all they're just first of all they're just they're suffering like it doesn't feel they're suffering like it doesn't feel they're suffering like it doesn't feel good to be there and i think that can good to be there and i think that can good to be there and i think that can make the psychological experience of make the psychological experience of make the psychological experience of being an entrepreneur much harder and so being an entrepreneur much harder and so being an entrepreneur much harder and so so much more satisfying and helpful to so much more satisfying and helpful to so much more satisfying and helpful to do a bunch of little experiments right do a bunch of little experiments right do a bunch of little experiments right to collect to try a thing collect some to collect to try a thing collect some to collect to try a thing collect some data try a thing collect some data don't data try a thing collect some data don't data try a thing collect some data don't worry so much about the mistakes worry so much about the mistakes worry so much about the mistakes especially when these are smaller or especially when these are smaller or especially when these are smaller or reversible decisions reversible decisions reversible decisions yeah yeah yeah that's good advice we have a couple that's good advice we have a couple that's good advice we have a couple questions coming in questions coming in questions coming in from pablo on youtube he says from pablo on youtube he says from pablo on youtube he says should different roles in a startup like should different roles in a startup like should different roles in a startup like tech sales and marketing work on tech sales and marketing work on tech sales and marketing work on developing different habits developing different habits developing different habits what do you think what do you think what do you think i mean i think different humans need i mean i think different humans need i mean i think different humans need different habits right no brain no two different habits right no brain no two different habits right no brain no two brains are the same brains are the same brains are the same no two set of superpowers are the same no two set of superpowers are the same no two set of superpowers are the same so having flexibility so having flexibility so having flexibility for each individual around what kinds of for each individual around what kinds of for each individual around what kinds of habits and patterns are most conducive habits and patterns are most conducive habits and patterns are most conducive to their

to their to their optimal workflow optimal workflow optimal workflow is important in every business for all is important in every business for all is important in every business for all people people people yeah and yeah and yeah and i used to example i used to keep all my i used to example i used to keep all my i used to example i used to keep all my to-do's in a notebook and then i didn't to-do's in a notebook and then i didn't to-do's in a notebook and then i didn't like that i couldn't access it if i like that i couldn't access it if i like that i couldn't access it if i didn't have my notebook with me and i'm didn't have my notebook with me and i'm didn't have my notebook with me and i'm worried about losing my notebook all the worried about losing my notebook all the worried about losing my notebook all the time so eventually i transitioned to time so eventually i transitioned to time so eventually i transitioned to trello trello trello and i recommend to some people that they and i recommend to some people that they and i recommend to some people that they should use trello for their to-do and should use trello for their to-do and should use trello for their to-do and some people it just doesn't work you some people it just doesn't work you some people it just doesn't work you know and then tracy uses a totally know and then tracy uses a totally know and then tracy uses a totally different piece of software and is different piece of software and is different piece of software and is recommended to me and it's like oh yeah recommended to me and it's like oh yeah recommended to me and it's like oh yeah i don't that doesn't fit the way i think i don't that doesn't fit the way i think i don't that doesn't fit the way i think right or the way i work i mean that's a right or the way i work i mean that's a right or the way i work i mean that's a small example small example small example but i also think like some people get in but i also think like some people get in but i also think like some people get in the habit of getting up at 5 a.m every the habit of getting up at 5 a.m every the habit of getting up at 5 a.m every day like you and and getting a bunch of day like you and and getting a bunch of day like you and and getting a bunch of work that i'm going to do in my day is work that i'm going to do in my day is work that i'm going to do in my day is done before 10 a.m yep versus me done before 10 a.m yep versus me done before 10 a.m yep versus me i get up i move slowly i don't know i i get up i move slowly i don't know i i get up i move slowly i don't know i don't do much work don't do much work don't do much work onboarding around 11am your brains are onboarding around 11am your brains are onboarding around 11am your brains are working yeah well maybe like 9 30. don't working yeah well maybe like 9 30. don't working yeah well maybe like 9 30. don't exaggerate but yeah exaggerate but yeah exaggerate but yeah yeah exactly no that's 10 30. but you yeah exactly no that's 10 30. but you yeah exactly no that's 10 30. but you know there's just like different but know there's just like different but know there's just like different but i've learned and i've also learned like i've learned and i've also learned like i've learned and i've also learned like i am i am i am forgetful is not the right word but forgetful is not the right word but forgetful is not the right word but maybe i i need systems like i have maybe i i need systems like i have maybe i i need systems like i have calendar reminders i have you know calendar reminders i have you know calendar reminders i have you know trello board that i keep everything like trello board that i keep everything like trello board that i keep everything like i can't keep it all in my head some i can't keep it all in my head some i can't keep it all in my head some people can so it's like figuring out people can so it's like figuring out people can so it's like figuring out it's knowing yourself and then figuring it's knowing yourself and then figuring it's knowing yourself and then figuring out where am i failing over and over out where am i failing over and over out where am i failing over and over what mistakes am i making that are what mistakes am i making that are what mistakes am i making that are easily solvable by things like software easily solvable by things like software easily solvable by things like software reminders to-do's you know that kind of reminders to-do's you know that kind of reminders to-do's you know that kind of stuff good good question pablo another stuff good good question pablo another stuff good good question pablo another question from helen on youtube it says

question from helen on youtube it says question from helen on youtube it says what's your advice for getting sleep what's your advice for getting sleep what's your advice for getting sleep quality getting good sleep quality when quality getting good sleep quality when quality getting good sleep quality when your schedule or routine demand you to your schedule or routine demand you to your schedule or routine demand you to be flexible i'm a founder and a be flexible i'm a founder and a be flexible i'm a founder and a co-caregiver co-caregiver co-caregiver yeah i mean i think that's always a yeah i mean i think that's always a yeah i mean i think that's always a tricky one and sleep is often the first tricky one and sleep is often the first tricky one and sleep is often the first to go when we've got lots of things to go when we've got lots of things to go when we've got lots of things going on in our lives um a couple quick going on in our lives um a couple quick going on in our lives um a couple quick tips are tips are tips are really really limiting alcohol intake really really limiting alcohol intake really really limiting alcohol intake and i say this you know i love a good and i say this you know i love a good and i say this you know i love a good glass of wine and a good cocktail like glass of wine and a good cocktail like glass of wine and a good cocktail like everybody else but that's one of those everybody else but that's one of those everybody else but that's one of those things that's super disruptive to sleep things that's super disruptive to sleep things that's super disruptive to sleep because it prevents us from dropping because it prevents us from dropping because it prevents us from dropping into deep sleep into deep sleep into deep sleep so sleep quality is much improved when so sleep quality is much improved when so sleep quality is much improved when we abstain from alcohol we abstain from alcohol we abstain from alcohol also getting that exercise in to help also getting that exercise in to help also getting that exercise in to help your body be really tired your body be really tired your body be really tired can be really helpful can be really helpful can be really helpful not doing it right before bedtime not doing it right before bedtime not doing it right before bedtime but timing that out so that by the time but timing that out so that by the time but timing that out so that by the time bedtime rolls around your body is really bedtime rolls around your body is really bedtime rolls around your body is really ready to lay down ready to lay down ready to lay down so um there's some really great articles so um there's some really great articles so um there's some really great articles about sleep hygiene and i can about sleep hygiene and i can about sleep hygiene and i can uh send those if people are interested uh send those if people are interested uh send those if people are interested but also a good google search is helpful but also a good google search is helpful but also a good google search is helpful too too too but it's it's a it's a challenge and i but it's it's a it's a challenge and i but it's it's a it's a challenge and i think sleep is really one of our most think sleep is really one of our most think sleep is really one of our most important assets as entrepreneurs it's important assets as entrepreneurs it's important assets as entrepreneurs it's it's a place where our brain does all it's a place where our brain does all it's a place where our brain does all the really good important stuff the really good important stuff the really good important stuff and it's so important that i've read two and it's so important that i've read two and it's so important that i've read two books on it one's called why we sleep books on it one's called why we sleep books on it one's called why we sleep that i recommend they're both i listen that i recommend they're both i listen that i recommend they're both i listen to them on audible but one's called why to them on audible but one's called why to them on audible but one's called why we sleep and the other is called i we sleep and the other is called i we sleep and the other is called i believe it's the science of sleep they believe it's the science of sleep they believe it's the science of sleep they both said a lot of the same things but both said a lot of the same things but both said a lot of the same things but what was interesting they talk about what was interesting they talk about what was interesting they talk about sleep types and there's like three sleep types and there's like three sleep types and there's like three you know different human body types in you know different human body types in you know different human body types in terms of sleep they've done all these

terms of sleep they've done all these terms of sleep they've done all these maybe it's four maybe it's four maybe it's four um so it's like figure out you figure um so it's like figure out you figure um so it's like figure out you figure yours out are you a morning person are yours out are you a morning person are yours out are you a morning person are you an evening there's all this stuff um you an evening there's all this stuff um you an evening there's all this stuff um what was the other thing oh it was like what was the other thing oh it was like what was the other thing oh it was like i didn't realize a big thing was keeping i didn't realize a big thing was keeping i didn't realize a big thing was keeping your room you want it like a cave your room you want it like a cave your room you want it like a cave you want it cold dark and quiet and you want it cold dark and quiet and you want it cold dark and quiet and really dark like even like one light really dark like even like one light really dark like even like one light they would blindfold people they would they would blindfold people they would they would blindfold people they would go to sleep and they would tape a blue go to sleep and they would tape a blue go to sleep and they would tape a blue light to the back of their knee and they light to the back of their knee and they light to the back of their knee and they would get lower sleep quality would get lower sleep quality would get lower sleep quality then yeah that like our body reacts to then yeah that like our body reacts to then yeah that like our body reacts to light not just our eyes so like i like i light not just our eyes so like i like i light not just our eyes so like i like i cover every light in the you know in our cover every light in the you know in our cover every light in the you know in our room and i also then where like i get up room and i also then where like i get up room and i also then where like i get up in the middle of the night and i put a in the middle of the night and i put a in the middle of the night and i put a sleep mask on um so it's like stuff like sleep mask on um so it's like stuff like sleep mask on um so it's like stuff like that like keeping it that like keeping it that like keeping it more quiet than i think uh you know more more quiet than i think uh you know more more quiet than i think uh you know more quiet more cold and and um dark darker quiet more cold and and um dark darker quiet more cold and and um dark darker than you think it needs to be i think than you think it needs to be i think than you think it needs to be i think was a big realization when i read those was a big realization when i read those was a big realization when i read those books books books your cave your cave your cave it's hard yep it's hard yep it's hard yep yep yep last question startupman on yep yep last question startupman on yep yep last question startupman on youtube he asks he or she asks can you youtube he asks he or she asks can you youtube he asks he or she asks can you talk about perfectionism and how to talk about perfectionism and how to talk about perfectionism and how to forgive yourself i tend to spiral if i forgive yourself i tend to spiral if i forgive yourself i tend to spiral if i miss a goal which i believe is rooted in miss a goal which i believe is rooted in miss a goal which i believe is rooted in perfectionism yeah perfectionism yeah perfectionism yeah yeah it's a great question and we yeah it's a great question and we yeah it's a great question and we actually talk a lot about this in our actually talk a lot about this in our actually talk a lot about this in our book which i'll do like a really book which i'll do like a really book which i'll do like a really obnoxious little plug for because i have obnoxious little plug for because i have obnoxious little plug for because i have it right here it right here it right here the book um the book um the book um one of the things that can can be at one of the things that can can be at one of the things that can can be at play there is play there is play there is how rigid you are in your thinking and how rigid you are in your thinking and how rigid you are in your thinking and your thought process and in your

your thought process and in your your thought process and in your adherence to your expectations of adherence to your expectations of adherence to your expectations of yourself yourself yourself so when our thinking is really rigid so when our thinking is really rigid so when our thinking is really rigid like this is the one way for me to be like this is the one way for me to be like this is the one way for me to be successful or the one thing that successful or the one thing that successful or the one thing that i need as an outcome i need as an outcome i need as an outcome then when that doesn't happen whether then when that doesn't happen whether then when that doesn't happen whether it's within our control or not we can it's within our control or not we can it's within our control or not we can really spiral really spiral really spiral so so so understanding that um understanding that um understanding that um the more flexible you are in your the more flexible you are in your the more flexible you are in your thinking and the more flexible you are thinking and the more flexible you are thinking and the more flexible you are in the ways that you celebrate your in the ways that you celebrate your in the ways that you celebrate your accomplishments accomplishments accomplishments the better the better the better so so so you know i think you know i think you know i think i don't know i don't know i don't know it's all it's all it's all it's all it's all it's all a struggle a struggle a struggle and often our success isn't fully in our and often our success isn't fully in our and often our success isn't fully in our control and so being willing to control and so being willing to control and so being willing to do a deep dive into what didn't work why do a deep dive into what didn't work why do a deep dive into what didn't work why it didn't work it didn't work it didn't work what you learned what you learned what you learned and what you need to let go of is again and what you need to let go of is again and what you need to let go of is again this sort of very intentional practice this sort of very intentional practice this sort of very intentional practice of how you're tending and taking care of of how you're tending and taking care of of how you're tending and taking care of your thought process so this is there's your thought process so this is there's your thought process so this is there's like a lot i have to say about this so like a lot i have to say about this so like a lot i have to say about this so definitely check out the book and you definitely check out the book and you definitely check out the book and you know we can have more dialogue in the know we can have more dialogue in the know we can have more dialogue in the future if it's helpful to you but it's future if it's helpful to you but it's future if it's helpful to you but it's it's a tough one when you want something it's a tough one when you want something it's a tough one when you want something very badly and you're working very hard very badly and you're working very hard very badly and you're working very hard to make it happen and then it doesn't to make it happen and then it doesn't to make it happen and then it doesn't work work work yep i know that feeling yep i know that feeling yep i know that feeling thank you so much for joining us on the thank you so much for joining us on the thank you so much for joining us on the show today if you folks want to follow show today if you folks want to follow show today if you folks want to follow you on twitter you are at sherry walling you on twitter you are at sherry walling you on twitter you are at sherry walling and folks should again go to and folks should again go to and folks should again go to touching2worlds.com if they want to

touching2worlds.com if they want to touching2worlds.com if they want to check out your upcoming book check out your upcoming book check out your upcoming book and maybe buy a ticket to a circus show and maybe buy a ticket to a circus show and maybe buy a ticket to a circus show here in minneapolis here in minneapolis here in minneapolis circus show circus thanks again for circus show circus thanks again for circus show circus thanks again for joining me joining me joining me yeah i'll see you in two minutes on the yeah i'll see you in two minutes on the yeah i'll see you in two minutes on the other side of that yeah i'll see you other side of that yeah i'll see you other side of that yeah i'll see you guys oh no oh no let's see let's see let's see register you should register for the register you should register for the register you should register for the state of independence sas where this is state of independence sas where this is state of independence sas where this is our third report that we're releasing so our third report that we're releasing so our third report that we're releasing so it's kind of cool we have trends in data it's kind of cool we have trends in data it's kind of cool we have trends in data now um i'm going to be giving a now um i'm going to be giving a now um i'm going to be giving a presentation from the microcomp growth presentation from the microcomp growth presentation from the microcomp growth stage and we will be live streaming that stage and we will be live streaming that stage and we will be live streaming that direct to any device that you choose direct to any device that you choose direct to any device that you choose it's going to be 10 15 a.m to 10 45 a.m it's going to be 10 15 a.m to 10 45 a.m it's going to be 10 15 a.m to 10 45 a.m central time central time central time on april 4th stateofindys.com on april 4th stateofindys.com on april 4th stateofindys.com pay what you can and if you use promo pay what you can and if you use promo pay what you can and if you use promo code sois2022 code sois2022 code sois2022 then it is free there are still a few then it is free there are still a few then it is free there are still a few tickets left to microsoft growth as i tickets left to microsoft growth as i tickets left to microsoft growth as i teased earlier microconf.com teased earlier microconf.com teased earlier microconf.com growth growth growth and as always thanks to hay and stripe and as always thanks to hay and stripe and as always thanks to hay and stripe for being our headline partners in 2020 for being our headline partners in 2020 for being our headline partners in 2020 2021 and now again in 2022 they make 2021 and now again in 2022 they make 2021 and now again in 2022 they make everything we do just a little easier everything we do just a little easier everything we do just a little easier and there are and there are and there are you know great companies that are you know great companies that are you know great companies that are aligned with uh the microconf ethos and aligned with uh the microconf ethos and aligned with uh the microconf ethos and have been longtime supporters of have been longtime supporters of have been longtime supporters of microcomp so thanks again for joining me microcomp so thanks again for joining me microcomp so thanks again for joining me and i'll see you back again in two weeks and i'll see you back again in two weeks and i'll see you back again in two weeks same time same place