Startup Founders in Cars Getting Coffee: Founder Origins with Dr. Sherry Walling - MicroConf Remote

[Music] [Music] this is a 2017 this is a 2017 this is a 2017 volvo xc90 the xc90 is a mid-sized volvo xc90 the xc90 is a mid-sized volvo xc90 the xc90 is a mid-sized luxury suv manufactured and marketed by luxury suv manufactured and marketed by luxury suv manufactured and marketed by volvo cars since 2002 volvo cars since 2002 volvo cars since 2002 and now in its second generation both and now in its second generation both and now in its second generation both generations of the xc90 have won motor generations of the xc90 have won motor generations of the xc90 have won motor trends suv of the year award in their trends suv of the year award in their trends suv of the year award in their debuts debuts debuts this particular vehicle is rarely washed this particular vehicle is rarely washed this particular vehicle is rarely washed and comes fully loaded with cups and comes fully loaded with cups and comes fully loaded with cups books papers and other items long since books papers and other items long since books papers and other items long since abandoned by my children abandoned by my children abandoned by my children the xc90 has three rows of seats perfect the xc90 has three rows of seats perfect the xc90 has three rows of seats perfect for carrying a lot of gear for carrying a lot of gear for carrying a lot of gear a lot of kids or both the tachometer a lot of kids or both the tachometer a lot of kids or both the tachometer goes to 8000 rpm and the in-dash goes to 8000 rpm and the in-dash goes to 8000 rpm and the in-dash computer never fails to play the best computer never fails to play the best computer never fails to play the best crunch tunes of the 90s crunch tunes of the 90s crunch tunes of the 90s welcome to our remote edition of welcome to our remote edition of welcome to our remote edition of microcomp remote microcomp remote microcomp remote we're not live on set but we're actually we're not live on set but we're actually we're not live on set but we're actually driving around it's startup founders and driving around it's startup founders and driving around it's startup founders and cars getting coffee cars getting coffee cars getting coffee we're truly remote am i going to get we're truly remote am i going to get we're truly remote am i going to get coffee out of this no it was just an coffee out of this no it was just an coffee out of this no it was just an expression expression expression that's like such false advertising i that's like such false advertising i that's like such false advertising i thought you were actually just inviting thought you were actually just inviting thought you were actually just inviting me for coffee me for coffee me for coffee so i rented this maserati here this is so i rented this maserati here this is so i rented this maserati here this is your volvo your volvo your volvo so we could drive around paris yeah no so we could drive around paris yeah no so we could drive around paris yeah no this is great thanks so much for this is great thanks so much for this is great thanks so much for for joining me for a few minutes to chat for joining me for a few minutes to chat for joining me for a few minutes to chat about founder origin stories can i get about founder origin stories can i get about founder origin stories can i get like a rain check on the coffee like a rain check on the coffee like a rain check on the coffee rain check on the coffee rain check on rain check on the coffee rain check on rain check on the coffee rain check on driving around paris in a maserati driving around paris in a maserati driving around paris in a maserati you made big promises this is amazing you made big promises this is amazing you made big promises this is amazing and the entire microcomp community now and the entire microcomp community now and the entire microcomp community now has my back on those i hope can we add has my back on those i hope can we add has my back on those i hope can we add an editor can we cut that part out an editor can we cut that part out an editor can we cut that part out so this is my lovely wife dr sherry so this is my lovely wife dr sherry so this is my lovely wife dr sherry walling walling walling and she is the founder of zen founder and she is the founder of zen founder and she is the founder of zen founder she's host of she's host of she's host of the zen founder podcast and

the zen founder podcast and the zen founder podcast and she and i co-founded our family and she and i co-founded our family and she and i co-founded our family and co-wrote a book called the co-wrote a book called the co-wrote a book called the entrepreneur's guide entrepreneur's guide entrepreneur's guide to keeping your together and what to keeping your together and what to keeping your together and what we're going to talk about today is we're going to talk about today is we're going to talk about today is actually actually actually a piece about founder origin stories a piece about founder origin stories a piece about founder origin stories that made it into it really is the that made it into it really is the that made it into it really is the second chapter of the book second chapter of the book second chapter of the book understanding where you come from to understanding where you come from to understanding where you come from to optimize where you're optimize where you're optimize where you're going and i think to set the stage um going and i think to set the stage um going and i think to set the stage um you know as a clinical psychologist you know as a clinical psychologist you know as a clinical psychologist someone who who works with founders someone who who works with founders someone who who works with founders high performing executives ceos high performing executives ceos high performing executives ceos how does someone's story or their origin how does someone's story or their origin how does someone's story or their origin impact how they operate day to day and impact how they operate day to day and impact how they operate day to day and how they run companies how they run companies how they run companies and i think the real question is like and i think the real question is like and i think the real question is like why should a founder listening to this why should a founder listening to this why should a founder listening to this care care care about how they were brought up about how about how they were brought up about how about how they were brought up about how they were raised about their family they were raised about their family they were raised about their family system system system yeah i have a lot of conversations about yeah i have a lot of conversations about yeah i have a lot of conversations about this actually and i think this actually and i think this actually and i think because most of us who are entrepreneurs because most of us who are entrepreneurs because most of us who are entrepreneurs are so are so are so um either future oriented or very um either future oriented or very um either future oriented or very present oriented we kind of live in the present oriented we kind of live in the present oriented we kind of live in the moment we're planning for the future moment we're planning for the future moment we're planning for the future we're we're we're building something working towards building something working towards building something working towards something it can be easy for us to something it can be easy for us to something it can be easy for us to overlook the importance of reflecting overlook the importance of reflecting overlook the importance of reflecting back on our past back on our past back on our past but a lot of the science that's coming but a lot of the science that's coming but a lot of the science that's coming out really in the last 10 or 15 years out really in the last 10 or 15 years out really in the last 10 or 15 years really speaks to the importance of really speaks to the importance of really speaks to the importance of understanding how your early life understanding how your early life understanding how your early life narrative narrative narrative might shape things as simple as might shape things as simple as might shape things as simple as your relationships your capacity for your relationships your capacity for your relationships your capacity for trust or even the way that your body trust or even the way that your body trust or even the way that your body responds to stress responds to stress responds to stress the adverse childhood experiences study the adverse childhood experiences study the adverse childhood experiences study is was a really really large sales is was a really really large sales is was a really really large sales scale study conducted in the us that scale study conducted in the us that scale study conducted in the us that looked at like health data for something

looked at like health data for something looked at like health data for something like 17 000 people like 17 000 people like 17 000 people and found really really strong and found really really strong and found really really strong relationships between early life relationships between early life relationships between early life adversity and things like adversity and things like adversity and things like depression suicidality things that you depression suicidality things that you depression suicidality things that you would expect but also things like heart would expect but also things like heart would expect but also things like heart disease disease disease um a number of times and types of cancer um a number of times and types of cancer um a number of times and types of cancer diabetes obesity things like that so i diabetes obesity things like that so i diabetes obesity things like that so i guess guess guess um maybe a long-winded way of saying it um maybe a long-winded way of saying it um maybe a long-winded way of saying it is that your past matters a tremendous is that your past matters a tremendous is that your past matters a tremendous amount to amount to amount to your relationship to your body and to your relationship to your body and to your relationship to your body and to the way that you solve problems the way the way that you solve problems the way the way that you solve problems the way that you manage stress the way that you that you manage stress the way that you that you manage stress the way that you really really really respond to the life that you're living respond to the life that you're living respond to the life that you're living right now yeah and i think that holds right now yeah and i think that holds right now yeah and i think that holds certainly holds true for me certainly holds true for me certainly holds true for me i know that the way i was brought up in i know that the way i was brought up in i know that the way i was brought up in the way that i was taught to deal with the way that i was taught to deal with the way that i was taught to deal with conflict or adversity or conflict or adversity or conflict or adversity or manage anger or all that is or anxiety manage anger or all that is or anxiety manage anger or all that is or anxiety is something that i have to manage on a is something that i have to manage on a is something that i have to manage on a day-to-day basis right as a founder day-to-day basis right as a founder day-to-day basis right as a founder yeah and it's even it's even more um yeah and it's even it's even more um yeah and it's even it's even more um maybe nuanced than what you were taught maybe nuanced than what you were taught maybe nuanced than what you were taught or what you observed or what you observed or what you observed it's really what got encoded into your it's really what got encoded into your it's really what got encoded into your body and the way that your dna body and the way that your dna body and the way that your dna responded to the kinds of environment responded to the kinds of environment responded to the kinds of environment that you were exposed to as a kiddo that you were exposed to as a kiddo that you were exposed to as a kiddo right and so as part of zenfat the zen right and so as part of zenfat the zen right and so as part of zenfat the zen founder podcast which is what on episode founder podcast which is what on episode founder podcast which is what on episode is it 250 or something at this point is it 250 or something at this point is it 250 or something at this point like yeah more than that like yeah more than that like yeah more than that 254 255 something like that you know 254 255 something like that you know 254 255 something like that you know you did a series of interviews for that you did a series of interviews for that you did a series of interviews for that where where where you talked to us actually multiple you talked to us actually multiple you talked to us actually multiple rounds of interviews over the rounds of interviews over the rounds of interviews over the course of a couple years it was kind of course of a couple years it was kind of course of a couple years it was kind of my summer project yeah so over the my summer project yeah so over the my summer project yeah so over the course of the year we would put out new course of the year we would put out new course of the year we would put out new episodes during the year and then over episodes during the year and then over episodes during the year and then over the summer i would sort of do a bunch of the summer i would sort of do a bunch of the summer i would sort of do a bunch of interviews at once and then have them interviews at once and then have them interviews at once and then have them ready to ready to ready to release throughout the summer that they release throughout the summer that they release throughout the summer that they were all founder origin stories so i were all founder origin stories so i were all founder origin stories so i did a really deep dive into lots of

did a really deep dive into lots of did a really deep dive into lots of microcomp speakers actually microcomp speakers actually microcomp speakers actually sally fd patrick mckenzie jason cohen um sally fd patrick mckenzie jason cohen um sally fd patrick mckenzie jason cohen um lots of folks that we know well in the lots of folks that we know well in the lots of folks that we know well in the community community community and um shaw reuben gomez yeah yeah and um shaw reuben gomez yeah yeah and um shaw reuben gomez yeah yeah yeah they became really interesting yeah they became really interesting yeah they became really interesting conversations to just say hey tell me conversations to just say hey tell me conversations to just say hey tell me how you grew up like what were your how you grew up like what were your how you grew up like what were your first experiences of entrepreneurship first experiences of entrepreneurship first experiences of entrepreneurship what shaped you and what made it hard what shaped you and what made it hard what shaped you and what made it hard for you to get to where you are now for you to get to where you are now for you to get to where you are now yeah and and as part of that you pulled yeah and and as part of that you pulled yeah and and as part of that you pulled out out out four patterns or four kind of four patterns or four kind of four patterns or four kind of commonalities that a lot of the founders commonalities that a lot of the founders commonalities that a lot of the founders shared these ambitious shared these ambitious shared these ambitious um high-achieving founders who had um high-achieving founders who had um high-achieving founders who had achieved success and i'd love to run achieved success and i'd love to run achieved success and i'd love to run through those now through those now through those now and in addition i think one of the and in addition i think one of the and in addition i think one of the perhaps even the more interesting part perhaps even the more interesting part perhaps even the more interesting part is you then pulled out these four is you then pulled out these four is you then pulled out these four archetypes these founder archetypes archetypes these founder archetypes archetypes these founder archetypes um or would you call them founder um or would you call them founder um or would you call them founder archetypes sure yeah archetypes sure yeah archetypes sure yeah and it's it's they're pretty cool like and it's it's they're pretty cool like and it's it's they're pretty cool like to tease them it's like the golden child to tease them it's like the golden child to tease them it's like the golden child the loner the pleaser the survivor the loner the pleaser the survivor the loner the pleaser the survivor and so i'd love to dig into those in in and so i'd love to dig into those in in and so i'd love to dig into those in in just a second because just a second because just a second because you have some kind of risks or like pros you have some kind of risks or like pros you have some kind of risks or like pros and cons and how to if you fi if you and cons and how to if you fi if you and cons and how to if you fi if you find that you resonate with this like find that you resonate with this like find that you resonate with this like this is probably how you operate this is probably how you operate this is probably how you operate and and ways to kind of optimize you and and ways to kind of optimize you and and ways to kind of optimize you know who you are and how to know who you are and how to know who you are and how to how to get the most out of things right how to get the most out of things right how to get the most out of things right yeah i think one of the things that i yeah i think one of the things that i yeah i think one of the things that i really wanted to drive home really wanted to drive home really wanted to drive home in the course of doing these interviews in the course of doing these interviews in the course of doing these interviews and i didn't have to make the point the and i didn't have to make the point the and i didn't have to make the point the interviews made the point themselves is interviews made the point themselves is interviews made the point themselves is there are lots of ways there are lots of ways there are lots of ways to become an entrepreneur it's not like to become an entrepreneur it's not like to become an entrepreneur it's not like you have to have a certain kind of you have to have a certain kind of you have to have a certain kind of background or a certain type of life background or a certain type of life background or a certain type of life experience that makes you successful or experience that makes you successful or experience that makes you successful or not successful not successful not successful and so by by looking at the interviews and so by by looking at the interviews and so by by looking at the interviews um kind of thematically and pulling out um kind of thematically and pulling out um kind of thematically and pulling out different archetypes it different archetypes it different archetypes it i think it really helped me to see how

i think it really helped me to see how i think it really helped me to see how people can be successful and then people can be successful and then people can be successful and then also have you know have shadow sides or also have you know have shadow sides or also have you know have shadow sides or have risk factors have downsides to have risk factors have downsides to have risk factors have downsides to really whatever kind of upbringing they really whatever kind of upbringing they really whatever kind of upbringing they experienced cool so what were the experienced cool so what were the experienced cool so what were the before we get into the archetypes what before we get into the archetypes what before we get into the archetypes what were those four um were those four um were those four um patterns or commonalities that you found patterns or commonalities that you found patterns or commonalities that you found across a lot of the successful founders across a lot of the successful founders across a lot of the successful founders that you interviewed for this founder that you interviewed for this founder that you interviewed for this founder origin series origin series origin series yeah i found that um of the folks that i yeah i found that um of the folks that i yeah i found that um of the folks that i interviewed interviewed interviewed almost all of them had some kind of almost all of them had some kind of almost all of them had some kind of early life adversity early life adversity early life adversity um the death of a parent a big um the death of a parent a big um the death of a parent a big transition a big move maybe right when transition a big move maybe right when transition a big move maybe right when they're going into junior high some they're going into junior high some they're going into junior high some really big shift really big shift really big shift a parent with cancer um the loss of a a parent with cancer um the loss of a a parent with cancer um the loss of a sibling sibling sibling you know mental illness mental illness a you know mental illness mental illness a you know mental illness mental illness a parent with substance abuse parent with substance abuse parent with substance abuse so these are the things that might show so these are the things that might show so these are the things that might show up in that adverse childhood experiences up in that adverse childhood experiences up in that adverse childhood experiences study that i mentioned earlier things study that i mentioned earlier things study that i mentioned earlier things that really disrupt the trajectory of that really disrupt the trajectory of that really disrupt the trajectory of your childhood your childhood your childhood but in the case of these founders the but in the case of these founders the but in the case of these founders the key thing that we know key thing that we know key thing that we know really from the field of psychological really from the field of psychological really from the field of psychological research which really bore out research which really bore out research which really bore out in my conversations with entrepreneurs in my conversations with entrepreneurs in my conversations with entrepreneurs is that that high adversity was is that that high adversity was is that that high adversity was accompanied by accompanied by accompanied by a high level of support so there was a high level of support so there was a high level of support so there was someone in that someone in that someone in that kid's life who maybe it was a teacher kid's life who maybe it was a teacher kid's life who maybe it was a teacher maybe it was maybe it was maybe it was a parent an uncle an aunt someone a parent an uncle an aunt someone a parent an uncle an aunt someone who saw something and just encouraged who saw something and just encouraged who saw something and just encouraged and supported and helped and supported and helped and supported and helped make kind of a safe place for that young make kind of a safe place for that young make kind of a safe place for that young person to continue to develop person to continue to develop person to continue to develop so high adversity you know we tend to be so high adversity you know we tend to be so high adversity you know we tend to be okay we can tend to be resilient if we okay we can tend to be resilient if we okay we can tend to be resilient if we have have have a helpful supportive adult around so

a helpful supportive adult around so a helpful supportive adult around so that's what i found in a lot of the that's what i found in a lot of the that's what i found in a lot of the interviews was that trend interviews was that trend interviews was that trend um so high adversity but high support um so high adversity but high support um so high adversity but high support right that combination right that combination right that combination had to exist together and i definitely had to exist together and i definitely had to exist together and i definitely found found found totally true to the entrepreneurial totally true to the entrepreneurial totally true to the entrepreneurial story is that people just had an story is that people just had an story is that people just had an inherent need to blaze a trail like inherent need to blaze a trail like inherent need to blaze a trail like these were kids these were kids these were kids who these founders were children who who these founders were children who who these founders were children who weren't necessarily super content to weren't necessarily super content to weren't necessarily super content to just just just roll with the rules as they were roll with the rules as they were roll with the rules as they were presented to them they were people who presented to them they were people who presented to them they were people who were either trying to break the rules were either trying to break the rules were either trying to break the rules in sometimes like a pretty problematic in sometimes like a pretty problematic in sometimes like a pretty problematic way um you know dan martel tells some way um you know dan martel tells some way um you know dan martel tells some stories about stories about stories about breaking rules that got him in big breaking rules that got him in big breaking rules that got him in big trouble um trouble um trouble um but they were just people who weren't but they were just people who weren't but they were just people who weren't super content with the status quo and super content with the status quo and super content with the status quo and wanted to wanted to wanted to you know go off trail a little bit yeah you know go off trail a little bit yeah you know go off trail a little bit yeah and that and that and that pattern persisted even once or really pattern persisted even once or really pattern persisted even once or really began when they were young children began when they were young children began when they were young children the third is that these were folks who the third is that these were folks who the third is that these were folks who were self-taught were self-taught were self-taught and self-led like um patrick mckenzie i and self-led like um patrick mckenzie i and self-led like um patrick mckenzie i love the story about him love the story about him love the story about him he really was interested in coding he he really was interested in coding he he really was interested in coding he loved video games he wanted to write loved video games he wanted to write loved video games he wanted to write video games and make video games video games and make video games video games and make video games but he didn't have a computer so but he didn't have a computer so but he didn't have a computer so he went to the library and checked out he went to the library and checked out he went to the library and checked out library books about coding and started library books about coding and started library books about coding and started writing out code by hand writing out code by hand writing out code by hand so he learned to code from books and so he learned to code from books and so he learned to code from books and then would just do the mental exercise then would just do the mental exercise then would just do the mental exercise of coding of compiling i'm writing it of coding of compiling i'm writing it of coding of compiling i'm writing it despite longhand right despite longhand right despite longhand right so that's that's a unique trade and so that's that's a unique trade and so that's that's a unique trade and that's kind of the entrepreneurial that's kind of the entrepreneurial that's kind of the entrepreneurial secret sauce is somebody who can get secret sauce is somebody who can get secret sauce is somebody who can get themselves going is self-motivated and themselves going is self-motivated and themselves going is self-motivated and is going to teach themselves is going to teach themselves is going to teach themselves yeah i actually did that as well

yeah i actually did that as well yeah i actually did that as well although i had a computer but when my although i had a computer but when my although i had a computer but when my brother was coding brother was coding brother was coding i would write it out on binder paper i i would write it out on binder paper i i would write it out on binder paper i know it's like it was like when's my know it's like it was like when's my know it's like it was like when's my turn what's my turn turn what's my turn turn what's my turn time sharing you know when i didn't know time sharing you know when i didn't know time sharing you know when i didn't know what that meant so that was the third what that meant so that was the third what that meant so that was the third what's the fourth what's the fourth what's the fourth the last one in this one oh man was so the last one in this one oh man was so the last one in this one oh man was so important for me to reflect on as a important for me to reflect on as a important for me to reflect on as a parent parent parent um the last one is time all of the um the last one is time all of the um the last one is time all of the entrepreneurs that i talked to or entrepreneurs that i talked to or entrepreneurs that i talked to or the vast majority of them had extended the vast majority of them had extended the vast majority of them had extended periods of time periods of time periods of time to tinker um so one to tinker um so one to tinker um so one my favorite example of this is heath and my favorite example of this is heath and my favorite example of this is heath and shaw his dad would take him shaw his dad would take him shaw his dad would take him out as a physician he'd take him to the out as a physician he'd take him to the out as a physician he'd take him to the hospital in the evenings hospital in the evenings hospital in the evenings when he was doing paperwork or whatever when he was doing paperwork or whatever when he was doing paperwork or whatever and he'd basically and he'd basically and he'd basically had him a screwdriver and let him loose had him a screwdriver and let him loose had him a screwdriver and let him loose in the in the in the in the like it room like with all of the in the like it room like with all of the in the like it room like with all of the machines machines machines and just be like hey entertain yourself and just be like hey entertain yourself and just be like hey entertain yourself essentially essentially essentially so heathen had all of this time to just so heathen had all of this time to just so heathen had all of this time to just i mean frankly like probably take apart i mean frankly like probably take apart i mean frankly like probably take apart computers and look at circuits and computers and look at circuits and computers and look at circuits and just problem solve and and i think the just problem solve and and i think the just problem solve and and i think the thing that thing that thing that um you know is so dangerous for us maybe um you know is so dangerous for us maybe um you know is so dangerous for us maybe in our era of parenting is that in our era of parenting is that in our era of parenting is that a lot of kids that i know are really a lot of kids that i know are really a lot of kids that i know are really really structured their days are really really structured their days are really really structured their days are really full full full and they don't have this expansive time and they don't have this expansive time and they don't have this expansive time to just kind of mess around in the to just kind of mess around in the to just kind of mess around in the basement and tinker and basement and tinker and basement and tinker and write code by hand or listen to their write code by hand or listen to their write code by hand or listen to their own imaginations own imaginations own imaginations so i thought that was a really important so i thought that was a really important so i thought that was a really important take home about that take home about that take home about that that road to entrepreneurship involves that road to entrepreneurship involves that road to entrepreneurship involves time to just sort of mess around in time to just sort of mess around in time to just sort of mess around in anger anger anger the first is the golden child second is the first is the golden child second is the first is the golden child second is the loner and then there's the pleaser the loner and then there's the pleaser the loner and then there's the pleaser and the survivor and the survivor and the survivor you want to maybe talk through the the

you want to maybe talk through the the you want to maybe talk through the the golden child being mindful of time as golden child being mindful of time as golden child being mindful of time as our time is is our time is is our time is is running short but talk through that and running short but talk through that and running short but talk through that and like i don't know what you have like i don't know what you have like i don't know what you have advantages disadvantages things to watch advantages disadvantages things to watch advantages disadvantages things to watch out for whatever it is you want to add out for whatever it is you want to add out for whatever it is you want to add context to just what you know what the context to just what you know what the context to just what you know what the golden child kind of archetype is golden child kind of archetype is golden child kind of archetype is yeah so archetypes take a little bit yeah so archetypes take a little bit yeah so archetypes take a little bit more time to explain but i'll do my best more time to explain but i'll do my best more time to explain but i'll do my best um so as you're hearing this realize um so as you're hearing this realize um so as you're hearing this realize you're hearing this very sort of you're hearing this very sort of you're hearing this very sort of redacted version of this so forgive me redacted version of this so forgive me redacted version of this so forgive me if it feels over general there's a full if it feels over general there's a full if it feels over general there's a full book chapter too book chapter too book chapter too it's like four dollars on kindle the it's like four dollars on kindle the it's like four dollars on kindle the entrepreneur's guide to keeping your entrepreneur's guide to keeping your entrepreneur's guide to keeping your together chapter two together chapter two together chapter two is basically the expanded version of is basically the expanded version of is basically the expanded version of this if you want to dig in deeper this if you want to dig in deeper this if you want to dig in deeper so um in the course of these interviews so um in the course of these interviews so um in the course of these interviews i i i realize that a lot of people come to realize that a lot of people come to realize that a lot of people come to entrepreneurship and in different ways entrepreneurship and in different ways entrepreneurship and in different ways so one way is is this sort of golden so one way is is this sort of golden so one way is is this sort of golden child upbringing experience and this child upbringing experience and this child upbringing experience and this is like probably what all of us strive is like probably what all of us strive is like probably what all of us strive to provide our kids as parents to provide our kids as parents to provide our kids as parents lots of support lots of stability lots of support lots of stability lots of support lots of stability lots of um capacity to go deep lots of um capacity to go deep lots of um capacity to go deep in your own interests like these are the in your own interests like these are the in your own interests like these are the parents that are out on the soccer field parents that are out on the soccer field parents that are out on the soccer field like just cheering you on like just cheering you on like just cheering you on bringing the snacks like all invested in bringing the snacks like all invested in bringing the snacks like all invested in you and i think you and i think you and i think um this again highly supportive very um this again highly supportive very um this again highly supportive very enthusiastic lots of resources enthusiastic lots of resources enthusiastic lots of resources and this is great for people in their and this is great for people in their and this is great for people in their entrepreneurial journey because they entrepreneurial journey because they entrepreneurial journey because they really i think develop this deep sense really i think develop this deep sense really i think develop this deep sense of confidence of confidence of confidence this deep sense that uh what they think this deep sense that uh what they think this deep sense that uh what they think how they see the world that that matters how they see the world that that matters how they see the world that that matters and that it's something that's worth and that it's something that's worth and that it's something that's worth sharing or that people will generally be sharing or that people will generally be sharing or that people will generally be responsive to when they share it responsive to when they share it responsive to when they share it so that's one of the best um you know so that's one of the best um you know so that's one of the best um you know aspects aspects aspects if you're going into this sort of life

if you're going into this sort of life if you're going into this sort of life of entrepreneurship which can be pretty of entrepreneurship which can be pretty of entrepreneurship which can be pretty hard hard hard is that you know you have this great is that you know you have this great is that you know you have this great foundation of support and belief in foundation of support and belief in foundation of support and belief in yourself yourself yourself um the downside of this is that um the downside of this is that um the downside of this is that sometimes people just have very limited sometimes people just have very limited sometimes people just have very limited experience with failure experience with failure experience with failure i mean you think of the the it kid the i mean you think of the the it kid the i mean you think of the the it kid the student council president student council president student council president or the high school quarterback or the or the high school quarterback or the or the high school quarterback or the head of the cheerleading squad head of the cheerleading squad head of the cheerleading squad these are these are kids who really have these are these are kids who really have these are these are kids who really have a lot of support maybe a lot of coddling a lot of support maybe a lot of coddling a lot of support maybe a lot of coddling even and they just haven't had to fight even and they just haven't had to fight even and they just haven't had to fight super hard which can be a downside when super hard which can be a downside when super hard which can be a downside when you're an entrepreneur and you you're an entrepreneur and you you're an entrepreneur and you you know you have you have things that you know you have you have things that you know you have you have things that don't work well that you have to sort don't work well that you have to sort don't work well that you have to sort through through through right how about the second is the loaner right how about the second is the loaner right how about the second is the loaner yeah the loner is you know is maybe the yeah the loner is you know is maybe the yeah the loner is you know is maybe the kid who's in the library handwriting kid who's in the library handwriting kid who's in the library handwriting code code code this is someone whose way of seeing the this is someone whose way of seeing the this is someone whose way of seeing the world or their interests world or their interests world or their interests didn't necessarily align with a an didn't necessarily align with a an didn't necessarily align with a an obvious peer group maybe when they're obvious peer group maybe when they're obvious peer group maybe when they're teenagers teenagers teenagers and so much of the development of who and so much of the development of who and so much of the development of who they became they became they became and what they cared about happened and what they cared about happened and what they cared about happened within their own within their own within their own you know their own autonomous time okay you know their own autonomous time okay you know their own autonomous time okay there's someone in the middle of the there's someone in the middle of the there's someone in the middle of the road road road taking a picture of a baldy eagle in a taking a picture of a baldy eagle in a taking a picture of a baldy eagle in a tree so that's that's minnesota moment tree so that's that's minnesota moment tree so that's that's minnesota moment for you right now so if the camera for you right now so if the camera for you right now so if the camera catches and there is a bald eagle catches and there is a bald eagle catches and there is a bald eagle yeah okay so the loner i mean in some yeah okay so the loner i mean in some yeah okay so the loner i mean in some ways this is a great advantage ways this is a great advantage ways this is a great advantage because you're used to hearing your own because you're used to hearing your own because you're used to hearing your own voice you're used to cultivating your voice you're used to cultivating your voice you're used to cultivating your own ideas own ideas own ideas you spend a lot of time in your own head you spend a lot of time in your own head you spend a lot of time in your own head in a way that i think can really yield a in a way that i think can really yield a in a way that i think can really yield a lot of ingenuity lot of ingenuity lot of ingenuity and again a sense of confidence and a and again a sense of confidence and a and again a sense of confidence and a way of just knowing yourself well

way of just knowing yourself well way of just knowing yourself well and trusting your own creative process and trusting your own creative process and trusting your own creative process but of course this is a downside because but of course this is a downside because but of course this is a downside because as much as we as much as we as much as we like to think that we can be successful like to think that we can be successful like to think that we can be successful in a vacuum in a vacuum in a vacuum networking and our relationships and our networking and our relationships and our networking and our relationships and our connections connections connections are incredibly important no matter what are incredibly important no matter what are incredibly important no matter what we're doing as entrepreneurs we're doing as entrepreneurs we're doing as entrepreneurs so the downside potentially of the loner so the downside potentially of the loner so the downside potentially of the loner is that is that is that those early life skills in terms of how those early life skills in terms of how those early life skills in terms of how to really connect with to really connect with to really connect with other people um how to really build a other people um how to really build a other people um how to really build a network and as network and as network and as a sort of a bunch of different a sort of a bunch of different a sort of a bunch of different relationships may not be as intact or as relationships may not be as intact or as relationships may not be as intact or as well practiced well practiced well practiced it could be helpful and this is the one it could be helpful and this is the one it could be helpful and this is the one that resonates the most with me with my that resonates the most with me with my that resonates the most with me with my upbringing because we lived out in the upbringing because we lived out in the upbringing because we lived out in the middle of nowhere middle of nowhere middle of nowhere we had books and computers and with no we had books and computers and with no we had books and computers and with no internet because it was the 80s when i internet because it was the 80s when i internet because it was the 80s when i was growing up and was growing up and was growing up and i thought that my whole deal when i i thought that my whole deal when i i thought that my whole deal when i first started doing software right doing first started doing software right doing first started doing software right doing products was like i'm going to do it all products was like i'm going to do it all products was like i'm going to do it all on on on all i don't have to answer to anyone all i don't have to answer to anyone all i don't have to answer to anyone micro solo it was all about being a song micro solo it was all about being a song micro solo it was all about being a song no network i didn't build that and then no network i didn't build that and then no network i didn't build that and then at eventual areas i realized oh i was at eventual areas i realized oh i was at eventual areas i realized oh i was just never taught that skill and i i've just never taught that skill and i i've just never taught that skill and i i've learned that over the past 15 years but learned that over the past 15 years but learned that over the past 15 years but it was it was it was it was a detriment to me at the start it was a detriment to me at the start it was a detriment to me at the start for sure for sure for sure how about the third yeah the third um i how about the third yeah the third um i how about the third yeah the third um i call the pleaser call the pleaser call the pleaser and this is um this is the kiddo who's and this is um this is the kiddo who's and this is um this is the kiddo who's growing up in a context where maybe they growing up in a context where maybe they growing up in a context where maybe they have a pretty hard driving parent have a pretty hard driving parent have a pretty hard driving parent a parent that wants them you know to be a parent that wants them you know to be a parent that wants them you know to be that high school star athlete but that high school star athlete but that high school star athlete but they're really more of a chess playing they're really more of a chess playing they're really more of a chess playing kind of kid this is where you know you kind of kid this is where you know you kind of kid this is where you know you think of like the person who's think of like the person who's think of like the person who's kind of trying to overcompensate for kind of trying to overcompensate for kind of trying to overcompensate for that parent who pushed them really hard that parent who pushed them really hard that parent who pushed them really hard who maybe they felt like they were just who maybe they felt like they were just who maybe they felt like they were just never successful enough never successful enough never successful enough and i think this is in some ways it's a

and i think this is in some ways it's a and i think this is in some ways it's a tough upbringing but in some ways tough upbringing but in some ways tough upbringing but in some ways it really helps you develop these skills it really helps you develop these skills it really helps you develop these skills of learning to read of learning to read of learning to read what people need like this is a great what people need like this is a great what people need like this is a great customer skill right you're learning customer skill right you're learning customer skill right you're learning what your customers need and how to what your customers need and how to what your customers need and how to respond in ways that respond in ways that respond in ways that um really fit their needs this is the um really fit their needs this is the um really fit their needs this is the kind of entrepreneur who will over kind of entrepreneur who will over kind of entrepreneur who will over deliver deliver deliver who's somebody who really um kind of who's somebody who really um kind of who's somebody who really um kind of understands understands understands the emotional context of what people the emotional context of what people the emotional context of what people will pay for and what they want and what will pay for and what they want and what will pay for and what they want and what they need they need they need um but this is not necessarily someone um but this is not necessarily someone um but this is not necessarily someone who is able to set who is able to set who is able to set good boundaries for themselves for their good boundaries for themselves for their good boundaries for themselves for their family or for their business this might family or for their business this might family or for their business this might be the person who's always like yes yes be the person who's always like yes yes be the person who's always like yes yes yes but that drives themselves into the yes but that drives themselves into the yes but that drives themselves into the ground because they're not ground because they're not ground because they're not actually thinking about what's most actually thinking about what's most actually thinking about what's most important for them or for the growth and important for them or for the growth and important for them or for the growth and well-being of their business well-being of their business well-being of their business they're other oriented in a way that's they're other oriented in a way that's they're other oriented in a way that's both both both helpful and problematic the survivor is helpful and problematic the survivor is helpful and problematic the survivor is the last archetype that i came across the last archetype that i came across the last archetype that i came across and this is the kiddo who really dealt and this is the kiddo who really dealt and this is the kiddo who really dealt with a lot of with a lot of with a lot of maybe aggression violence instability maybe aggression violence instability maybe aggression violence instability chaos chaos chaos in their early life experience and this in their early life experience and this in their early life experience and this is somebody who is somebody who is somebody who has potentially lots of street smarts has potentially lots of street smarts has potentially lots of street smarts who really knows how to who really knows how to who really knows how to get what they need and provide for get what they need and provide for get what they need and provide for themselves even in really really themselves even in really really themselves even in really really sort of difficult situations um so great sort of difficult situations um so great sort of difficult situations um so great entrepreneurial skill and like this is entrepreneurial skill and like this is entrepreneurial skill and like this is the person who doesn't get up the person who doesn't get up the person who doesn't get up give up rather this is they don't give give up rather this is they don't give give up rather this is they don't give up they're a fighter there a strong up they're a fighter there a strong up they're a fighter there a strong strong sort of mental game um strong sort of mental game um strong sort of mental game um but this can be problematic in the sense but this can be problematic in the sense but this can be problematic in the sense that that that um this kind of upgrading tends to um this kind of upgrading tends to um this kind of upgrading tends to either either either lead to a path where people are pretty

lead to a path where people are pretty lead to a path where people are pretty shut down emotionally like they're just shut down emotionally like they're just shut down emotionally like they're just kind of machines kind of machines kind of machines or they're pretty reactive emotionally or they're pretty reactive emotionally or they're pretty reactive emotionally they may they may they may experience a lot of anger or not experience a lot of anger or not experience a lot of anger or not necessarily have necessarily have necessarily have had calming experiences that help their had calming experiences that help their had calming experiences that help their body body body regulate well when they're under a lot regulate well when they're under a lot regulate well when they're under a lot of stress of stress of stress or distress so again really hard driving or distress so again really hard driving or distress so again really hard driving forceful powerful forceful powerful forceful powerful but maybe not always know how to wield but maybe not always know how to wield but maybe not always know how to wield that power in that power in that power in helpful positive productive ways the helpful positive productive ways the helpful positive productive ways the bottom line is that no matter what bottom line is that no matter what bottom line is that no matter what upbringing you have there are strengths upbringing you have there are strengths upbringing you have there are strengths and there are liabilities and there are liabilities and there are liabilities in that so it's worth the time to just in that so it's worth the time to just in that so it's worth the time to just do a little bit of exploration do a little bit of exploration do a little bit of exploration around what you're coming to this point around what you're coming to this point around what you're coming to this point in your life with what are the lessons in your life with what are the lessons in your life with what are the lessons that that that your upbringing taught you what are the your upbringing taught you what are the your upbringing taught you what are the things that it maybe didn't teach you so things that it maybe didn't teach you so things that it maybe didn't teach you so well that you might need to supplement well that you might need to supplement well that you might need to supplement um and i give some more we give some um and i give some more we give some um and i give some more we give some more tips and tricks more tips and tricks more tips and tricks and strategies in the book if you're and strategies in the book if you're and strategies in the book if you're needing to needing to needing to just fill out your early life experience just fill out your early life experience just fill out your early life experience with some counterbalancing growth with some counterbalancing growth with some counterbalancing growth yeah i mean one of the biggest pivot yeah i mean one of the biggest pivot yeah i mean one of the biggest pivot points or changing points for me points or changing points for me points or changing points for me as an entrepreneur are when i started as an entrepreneur are when i started as an entrepreneur are when i started realizing my weaknesses and really honed realizing my weaknesses and really honed realizing my weaknesses and really honed in on in on in on on my upbringing but it was both my on my upbringing but it was both my on my upbringing but it was both my strengths and my weaknesses and how i strengths and my weaknesses and how i strengths and my weaknesses and how i handle stress and how i handle handle stress and how i handle handle stress and how i handle certain situations that was a big point certain situations that was a big point certain situations that was a big point of growth again of growth again of growth again probably about 15 years ago was when probably about 15 years ago was when probably about 15 years ago was when that started you know and really that started you know and really that started you know and really culminated maybe five years ago i'm culminated maybe five years ago i'm culminated maybe five years ago i'm sorry about 10 years ago where i was sorry about 10 years ago where i was sorry about 10 years ago where i was like okay like okay like okay you just finished growing at that point

you just finished growing at that point you just finished growing at that point no but i finished i i knew a lot more no but i finished i i knew a lot more no but i finished i i knew a lot more about myself like it was a dramatic about myself like it was a dramatic about myself like it was a dramatic you know increase so thank you i'm you know increase so thank you i'm you know increase so thank you i'm giving you a hard time but i do think giving you a hard time but i do think giving you a hard time but i do think it's helpful it's helpful it's helpful to realize that this kind of growth to realize that this kind of growth to realize that this kind of growth process is ongoing like you process is ongoing like you process is ongoing like you do some of the growth you do some early do some of the growth you do some early do some of the growth you do some early childhood stuff and then childhood stuff and then childhood stuff and then there are times when you have to revisit there are times when you have to revisit there are times when you have to revisit it because your perspective on it it because your perspective on it it because your perspective on it changes changes changes as you grow as your kids grow as as you grow as your kids grow as as you grow as your kids grow as different factors around your change different factors around your change different factors around your change sure thank you so much dr walling for sure thank you so much dr walling for sure thank you so much dr walling for joining us today joining us today joining us today you owe me a coffee oh you a coffee and you owe me a coffee oh you a coffee and you owe me a coffee oh you a coffee and a maserati it sounds like a maserati it sounds like a maserati it sounds like she is i'm sorry at zen founder on she is i'm sorry at zen founder on she is i'm sorry at zen founder on twitter and twitter and twitter and you host the zen founder podcast if you host the zen founder podcast if you host the zen founder podcast if folks want to uh folks want to uh folks want to uh to keep up with you all right have a to keep up with you all right have a to keep up with you all right have a great microconf y'all thanks so much for great microconf y'all thanks so much for great microconf y'all thanks so much for joining us joining us joining us founders and cars not getting coffee i founders and cars not getting coffee i founders and cars not getting coffee i enjoyed that enjoyed that enjoyed that if you're interested in the book we kept if you're interested in the book we kept if you're interested in the book we kept mentioning it's called the mentioning it's called the mentioning it's called the entrepreneur's guide to keeping your entrepreneur's guide to keeping your entrepreneur's guide to keeping your together and chapter two of this together and chapter two of this together and chapter two of this book book book is in essence an expanded version of the is in essence an expanded version of the is in essence an expanded version of the conversation that you just heard