State of Independent SaaS Planning Chat with Rob Walling

welcome to today's episode of microconf welcome to today's episode of microconf on air i'm your host rob walling usually on air i'm your host rob walling usually on air i'm your host rob walling usually every other wednesday at 1 pm eastern 10 every other wednesday at 1 pm eastern 10 every other wednesday at 1 pm eastern 10 a.m pacific we live stream for about 30 a.m pacific we live stream for about 30 a.m pacific we live stream for about 30 minutes we haven't been minutes we haven't been minutes we haven't been live streaming for about the past five live streaming for about the past five live streaming for about the past five weeks i think because of microconfs we weeks i think because of microconfs we weeks i think because of microconfs we had four in-person events in four had four in-person events in four had four in-person events in four different cities which is pretty pretty different cities which is pretty pretty different cities which is pretty pretty amazing but on the show we cover topics amazing but on the show we cover topics amazing but on the show we cover topics related to building and growing related to building and growing related to building and growing ambitious sas startups that bring us ambitious sas startups that bring us ambitious sas startups that bring us freedom and purpose and allow us to freedom and purpose and allow us to freedom and purpose and allow us to maintain healthy relationships so maintain healthy relationships so maintain healthy relationships so welcome back i'm excited to be here it's welcome back i'm excited to be here it's welcome back i'm excited to be here it's uh it's fun to be uh it's fun to be uh it's fun to be back on the microphone today i'm going back on the microphone today i'm going back on the microphone today i'm going to be talking about a state of to be talking about a state of to be talking about a state of independence independence independence the state of independent sas we're going the state of independent sas we're going the state of independent sas we're going to to to talk about how we're planning um talk about how we're planning um talk about how we're planning um for it and frankly for it and frankly for it and frankly ask for thoughts from you the the live ask for thoughts from you the the live ask for thoughts from you the the live stream listeners slash audience stream listeners slash audience stream listeners slash audience um about what we should do differently um about what we should do differently um about what we should do differently and and and you know maybe things that we've done you know maybe things that we've done you know maybe things that we've done well and things that we could improve or well and things that we could improve or well and things that we could improve or just questions that you have that you'd just questions that you have that you'd just questions that you have that you'd like to see answered like to see answered like to see answered in the state of independent sas because in the state of independent sas because in the state of independent sas because we created this we created this we created this two years ago well three years ago now two years ago well three years ago now two years ago well three years ago now so we've done two of these state of so we've done two of these state of so we've done two of these state of independence sas surveys and reports independence sas surveys and reports independence sas surveys and reports if you go to state of indie sas.com if you go to state of indie sas.com if you go to state of indie sas.com you can view the full report you can view the full report you can view the full report and download it and see i mean i think and download it and see i mean i think and download it and see i mean i think it's 75 80 pages it's several hundred it's 75 80 pages it's several hundred it's 75 80 pages it's several hundred person hours to do this um and we don't person hours to do this um and we don't person hours to do this um and we don't charge for it we don't charge to charge for it we don't charge to charge for it we don't charge to download it i believe maybe there's an download it i believe maybe there's an download it i believe maybe there's an email gate on it but we don't charge email gate on it but we don't charge email gate on it but we don't charge people who take it we don't charge for people who take it we don't charge for people who take it we don't charge for the data this truly is

the data this truly is the data this truly is something that we wanted to put together something that we wanted to put together something that we wanted to put together for the bootstrap and mostly bootstrap for the bootstrap and mostly bootstrap for the bootstrap and mostly bootstrap sas community that we we put all of that sas community that we we put all of that sas community that we we put all of that that cumbersome phrase bootstrapped that cumbersome phrase bootstrapped that cumbersome phrase bootstrapped mostly bootstrap under independent right mostly bootstrap under independent right mostly bootstrap under independent right so independent task companies are those so independent task companies are those so independent task companies are those that um either are fully bootstrapped that um either are fully bootstrapped that um either are fully bootstrapped maybe have raised a small amount of maybe have raised a small amount of maybe have raised a small amount of funding but really funding but really funding but really haven't gone on the venture track where haven't gone on the venture track where haven't gone on the venture track where suddenly um you usually find yourself suddenly um you usually find yourself suddenly um you usually find yourself not being as in control of your of your not being as in control of your of your not being as in control of your of your company or your trajectory or your company or your trajectory or your company or your trajectory or your destination right destination right destination right so so so we have had a great response to this um we have had a great response to this um we have had a great response to this um i believe we've had i believe we've had i believe we've had more than across the two reports we've more than across the two reports we've more than across the two reports we've had more than 2000 sas companies had more than 2000 sas companies had more than 2000 sas companies respond and give data our data analysts respond and give data our data analysts respond and give data our data analysts have told us that by the time you get up have told us that by the time you get up have told us that by the time you get up even to i think it was like 500 to 800 even to i think it was like 500 to 800 even to i think it was like 500 to 800 like you have really statistically like you have really statistically like you have really statistically significant um information and significant um information and significant um information and so that's why we put it together and we so that's why we put it together and we so that's why we put it together and we put it together really to help because put it together really to help because put it together really to help because there's a ton of these for there's a ton of these for there's a ton of these for venture-backed startups and i frankly venture-backed startups and i frankly venture-backed startups and i frankly and me and the rest of the microcof team and me and the rest of the microcof team and me and the rest of the microcof team kind of got tired of opening a report kind of got tired of opening a report kind of got tired of opening a report and then saying yeah this doesn't apply and then saying yeah this doesn't apply and then saying yeah this doesn't apply to me though like this doesn't apply to to me though like this doesn't apply to to me though like this doesn't apply to independent sas companies bootstrap sas independent sas companies bootstrap sas independent sas companies bootstrap sas companies um the numbers are all companies um the numbers are all companies um the numbers are all different when you have 10 million in different when you have 10 million in different when you have 10 million in the bank the market sizes are different the bank the market sizes are different the bank the market sizes are different you know the the head counts just all you know the the head counts just all you know the the head counts just all that stuff it's it's it's so different that stuff it's it's it's so different that stuff it's it's it's so different um you know they're 70 the same maybe 80 um you know they're 70 the same maybe 80 um you know they're 70 the same maybe 80 but like this covers but like this covers but like this covers all of it and gives you an idea of of all of it and gives you an idea of of all of it and gives you an idea of of um um um of that so of that so of that so we the the survey itself if you haven't

we the the survey itself if you haven't we the the survey itself if you haven't taken it um we're going to be you know taken it um we're going to be you know taken it um we're going to be you know launching it here in the next couple launching it here in the next couple launching it here in the next couple weeks we really appreciate if you have a weeks we really appreciate if you have a weeks we really appreciate if you have a sas company doing at least one dollar in sas company doing at least one dollar in sas company doing at least one dollar in mrr we'd love for you to take the survey mrr we'd love for you to take the survey mrr we'd love for you to take the survey and um that helps us get good data that and um that helps us get good data that and um that helps us get good data that we can then distribute and help all of we can then distribute and help all of we can then distribute and help all of us understand this space a little better us understand this space a little better us understand this space a little better so so so if you are interested certainly if you if you are interested certainly if you if you are interested certainly if you have questions post them in the slack have questions post them in the slack have questions post them in the slack producer xander is is in there taking producer xander is is in there taking producer xander is is in there taking notes um if you want to come on the show notes um if you want to come on the show notes um if you want to come on the show right now the live stream and you know right now the live stream and you know right now the live stream and you know come on as a video with your video and come on as a video with your video and come on as a video with your video and just ask me a quick question or we can just ask me a quick question or we can just ask me a quick question or we can talk for a minute or two about it um talk for a minute or two about it um talk for a minute or two about it um well i'd like to keep it on topic you well i'd like to keep it on topic you well i'd like to keep it on topic you know of the state of independence as know of the state of independence as know of the state of independence as report uh please feel free to if you report uh please feel free to if you report uh please feel free to if you post in slack i think xander can post in slack i think xander can post in slack i think xander can dm you a link to get into uh stream yard dm you a link to get into uh stream yard dm you a link to get into uh stream yard here which is what we're using for this here which is what we're using for this here which is what we're using for this um um um i have some good comments coming in from i have some good comments coming in from i have some good comments coming in from youtube youtube youtube so so so we have let's see we've had a couple we have let's see we've had a couple we have let's see we've had a couple comments from the slack already and then comments from the slack already and then comments from the slack already and then i'll keep talking about why we do it and i'll keep talking about why we do it and i'll keep talking about why we do it and what's what's in the report and such but what's what's in the report and such but what's what's in the report and such but um um um tony asked who is using code versus no tony asked who is using code versus no tony asked who is using code versus no code code code that would be an interesting question to that would be an interesting question to that would be an interesting question to ask i'm ask i'm ask i'm i'll think about that i'm concerned that i'll think about that i'm concerned that i'll think about that i'm concerned that you know it's like one percent no code you know it's like one percent no code you know it's like one percent no code and because that's probably gonna be a and because that's probably gonna be a and because that's probably gonna be a really small number um of sas companies really small number um of sas companies really small number um of sas companies but i i am curious and so if we can fit but i i am curious and so if we can fit but i i am curious and so if we can fit it in it's always about we always wind it in it's always about we always wind it in it's always about we always wind up cutting i don't know 10 to 15 up cutting i don't know 10 to 15 up cutting i don't know 10 to 15 questions right at the end things that questions right at the end things that questions right at the end things that we do want to know but we just don't we we do want to know but we just don't we we do want to know but we just don't we don't want to have everyone spend 20 don't want to have everyone spend 20 don't want to have everyone spend 20 minutes filling out a survey right most minutes filling out a survey right most minutes filling out a survey right most people get it done in about eight people get it done in about eight people get it done in about eight minutes if you know your numbers five

minutes if you know your numbers five minutes if you know your numbers five five to eight minutes um and if you have five to eight minutes um and if you have five to eight minutes um and if you have to look some stuff up maybe it's 10 to to look some stuff up maybe it's 10 to to look some stuff up maybe it's 10 to 12 but we like to keep it under that 10 12 but we like to keep it under that 10 12 but we like to keep it under that 10 minute mark so minute mark so minute mark so i like that it's it's a topical thing i like that it's it's a topical thing i like that it's it's a topical thing and that's something producer sandra and and that's something producer sandra and and that's something producer sandra and i've been talking about i've been talking about i've been talking about is is is what are the things that have changed in what are the things that have changed in what are the things that have changed in the last year or two the last year or two the last year or two that wouldn't have been on the surveys that wouldn't have been on the surveys that wouldn't have been on the surveys and no code is one right because that's and no code is one right because that's and no code is one right because that's like a new like a new like a new it's a newer it's been around for a long it's a newer it's been around for a long it's a newer it's been around for a long time but it's a newer named movement time but it's a newer named movement time but it's a newer named movement that people are getting behind and so i that people are getting behind and so i that people are getting behind and so i could see that being pretty helpful to could see that being pretty helpful to could see that being pretty helpful to know know know uh spencer asked or he indicated i'd uh spencer asked or he indicated i'd uh spencer asked or he indicated i'd like to see where founders are located like to see where founders are located like to see where founders are located on a map view i agree on a map view i agree on a map view i agree i would love to do this so we tried to i would love to do this so we tried to i would love to do this so we tried to do it the first year and there were 342 do it the first year and there were 342 do it the first year and there were 342 different cities different cities different cities and so and so and so it got really muddy and complicated um it got really muddy and complicated um it got really muddy and complicated um it's not like that's one thing like with it's not like that's one thing like with it's not like that's one thing like with venture capital venture capital venture capital i think it's like 80 of venture capital i think it's like 80 of venture capital i think it's like 80 of venture capital in the united states is in like four in the united states is in like four in the united states is in like four four cities or five cities or something four cities or five cities or something four cities or five cities or something and that's not how independent sas is and that's not how independent sas is and that's not how independent sas is we're distributed all around the world we're distributed all around the world we're distributed all around the world and the you know there's 340 something and the you know there's 340 something and the you know there's 340 something cities where people are located and the cities where people are located and the cities where people are located and the number one city number one city number one city had less than had like four percent of had less than had like four percent of had less than had like four percent of the company so it isn't even like it's a the company so it isn't even like it's a the company so it isn't even like it's a it's truly a long tail and there's no it's truly a long tail and there's no it's truly a long tail and there's no fat head is the expression there's no fat head is the expression there's no fat head is the expression there's no it's not like the top one has 80 and it's not like the top one has 80 and it's not like the top one has 80 and then it's it's distributed it's like top then it's it's distributed it's like top then it's it's distributed it's like top one at four percent i mean it's just all one at four percent i mean it's just all one at four percent i mean it's just all over the place so it makes it a bit over the place so it makes it a bit over the place so it makes it a bit challenging to have a map view but challenging to have a map view but challenging to have a map view but we did we did we did then

then then i think we did the top 30 or something i think we did the top 30 or something i think we did the top 30 or something and we plotted them on a map and that and we plotted them on a map and that and we plotted them on a map and that was manageable um but it's kind of weird was manageable um but it's kind of weird was manageable um but it's kind of weird to cut it off so anyways all that said i to cut it off so anyways all that said i to cut it off so anyways all that said i want to see that too and i'm hoping that want to see that too and i'm hoping that want to see that too and i'm hoping that this year uh that we can make that this year uh that we can make that this year uh that we can make that happen in some form or fashion happen in some form or fashion happen in some form or fashion i also wanted to call out producer i also wanted to call out producer i also wanted to call out producer xander just reminded me we hit 10 000 xander just reminded me we hit 10 000 xander just reminded me we hit 10 000 subscribers on our youtube channel subscribers on our youtube channel subscribers on our youtube channel youtube.com youtube.com youtube.com microconf if you are not subscribed you microconf if you are not subscribed you microconf if you are not subscribed you should hit that bell should hit that bell should hit that bell and we are putting out live streams and we are putting out live streams and we are putting out live streams couple times a month we're putting out couple times a month we're putting out couple times a month we're putting out uh you know new talk videos um i'm going uh you know new talk videos um i'm going uh you know new talk videos um i'm going to be recording some short tutorial to be recording some short tutorial to be recording some short tutorial videos it's all kinds of cool stuff that videos it's all kinds of cool stuff that videos it's all kinds of cool stuff that we're putting there so youtube.com we're putting there so youtube.com we're putting there so youtube.com congratulations uh to us on hitting 10 congratulations uh to us on hitting 10 congratulations uh to us on hitting 10 000 subscribers we launched it in 000 subscribers we launched it in 000 subscribers we launched it in february of 2020. february of 2020. february of 2020. right before right before right before covet hit so it was kind of fortuitous covet hit so it was kind of fortuitous covet hit so it was kind of fortuitous anyways because then people had a bunch anyways because then people had a bunch anyways because then people had a bunch of time to be able to watch videos and of time to be able to watch videos and of time to be able to watch videos and that was um in 18 months to get there that was um in 18 months to get there that was um in 18 months to get there i feel pretty good about that i feel pretty good about that i feel pretty good about that all right all right all right do you have other questions do you have other questions do you have other questions feel free to post them otherwise i'm feel free to post them otherwise i'm feel free to post them otherwise i'm going to be talking about state of going to be talking about state of going to be talking about state of independence as report because this is independence as report because this is independence as report because this is something that i had wanted to do for something that i had wanted to do for something that i had wanted to do for probably six or seven years but it i probably six or seven years but it i probably six or seven years but it i wanted to do it well right it's it's wanted to do it well right it's it's wanted to do it well right it's it's like i said hundreds of person hours and like i said hundreds of person hours and like i said hundreds of person hours and so we needed budget to be able to so we needed budget to be able to so we needed budget to be able to uh construct the the survey itself um uh construct the the survey itself um uh construct the the survey itself um we needed a good enough distribution we we needed a good enough distribution we we needed a good enough distribution we did a big enough list which microcof now did a big enough list which microcof now did a big enough list which microcof now has but it really didn't have five years has but it really didn't have five years has but it really didn't have five years ago um to be able to to get enough ago um to be able to to get enough ago um to be able to to get enough founders to make it founders to make it founders to make it significant because if you get if you significant because if you get if you significant because if you get if you get 70 founders to respond it's it's

get 70 founders to respond it's it's get 70 founders to respond it's it's just kind of weak data you know i think just kind of weak data you know i think just kind of weak data you know i think uh uh uh probably well i don't know what the probably well i don't know what the probably well i don't know what the number is maybe 3 400 is probably the number is maybe 3 400 is probably the number is maybe 3 400 is probably the you know the smallest i would want to um you know the smallest i would want to um you know the smallest i would want to um to have to have to have um statistically significant um statistically significant um statistically significant uh information uh information uh information so some of the things that we ask about so some of the things that we ask about so some of the things that we ask about that i think are pretty interesting if that i think are pretty interesting if that i think are pretty interesting if you're a you're a you're a um sas founder it's questions like um sas founder it's questions like um sas founder it's questions like people ask you know should i have a people ask you know should i have a people ask you know should i have a credit card up front um should i have a credit card up front um should i have a credit card up front um should i have a free trial should i have a freemium free trial should i have a freemium free trial should i have a freemium model model model how long should i how long should i how long should i expect for my expect for my expect for my adwords or my pay-per-click to pay back adwords or my pay-per-click to pay back adwords or my pay-per-click to pay back right how many months right how many months right how many months and those are the kinds of things that and those are the kinds of things that and those are the kinds of things that we're asking and so you can go in and we're asking and so you can go in and we're asking and so you can go in and you can see how what percentage of sas you can see how what percentage of sas you can see how what percentage of sas companies independent sas companies have companies independent sas companies have companies independent sas companies have a free trial have a freemium plan um a free trial have a freemium plan um a free trial have a freemium plan um uh you know ask for credit card upfront uh you know ask for credit card upfront uh you know ask for credit card upfront and what we've seen actually it's cool and what we've seen actually it's cool and what we've seen actually it's cool to have two years now and we're gonna to have two years now and we're gonna to have two years now and we're gonna have a third year is we're starting to have a third year is we're starting to have a third year is we're starting to see see see changes over that time where changes over that time where changes over that time where more companies are having they're moving more companies are having they're moving more companies are having they're moving the free line more companies went the free line more companies went the free line more companies went freebie freebie freebie fewer companies were asking for credit fewer companies were asking for credit fewer companies were asking for credit card than the year before more companies card than the year before more companies card than the year before more companies have a free trial and so you know i have a free trial and so you know i have a free trial and so you know i think as things become more and more think as things become more and more think as things become more and more competitive competitive competitive you want to own the lead earlier right you want to own the lead earlier right you want to own the lead earlier right you want to own the lead sooner um that you want to own the lead sooner um that you want to own the lead sooner um that winds up i think that's what's driving winds up i think that's what's driving winds up i think that's what's driving that but i'm curious to see we only have that but i'm curious to see we only have that but i'm curious to see we only have two data points now and two data points now and two data points now and as you know as you know as you know uh you know through the more the more uh you know through the more the more uh you know through the more the more years that we can watch this um years that we can watch this um years that we can watch this um you know we can figure out if this lines you know we can figure out if this lines you know we can figure out if this lines up kind of with up kind of with up kind of with my intuition or rule of thumb because

my intuition or rule of thumb because my intuition or rule of thumb because there were there was a bunch of stuff i there were there was a bunch of stuff i there were there was a bunch of stuff i remember remember remember people used to say how many people at people used to say how many people at people used to say how many people at microconf have raised some type of microconf have raised some type of microconf have raised some type of funding even if it's 50 grand or a funding even if it's 50 grand or a funding even if it's 50 grand or a couple hundred grand couple hundred grand couple hundred grand and i would always say i think it's like and i would always say i think it's like and i would always say i think it's like 10 or 15 percent well it turns out that 10 or 15 percent well it turns out that 10 or 15 percent well it turns out that number was happened to be correct it was number was happened to be correct it was number was happened to be correct it was just a gut feel for me but we were able just a gut feel for me but we were able just a gut feel for me but we were able to validate that in independent sas um to validate that in independent sas um to validate that in independent sas um you know obviously which a large portion you know obviously which a large portion you know obviously which a large portion of that is captured here uh with of that is captured here uh with of that is captured here uh with microconf that in independent sas microconf that in independent sas microconf that in independent sas there's it's about 10 or 15 percent um there's it's about 10 or 15 percent um there's it's about 10 or 15 percent um that that have raised funding if you that that have raised funding if you that that have raised funding if you wanna see the full wanna see the full wanna see the full findings from last year's report we have findings from last year's report we have findings from last year's report we have a a youtube live stream where i present a a youtube live stream where i present a a youtube live stream where i present well isn't the full findings but it is well isn't the full findings but it is well isn't the full findings but it is the majority uh it's a lot of the kind the majority uh it's a lot of the kind the majority uh it's a lot of the kind of notable things that we pulled out i of notable things that we pulled out i of notable things that we pulled out i did a 30-minute live stream did a 30-minute live stream did a 30-minute live stream back in january obviously you can back in january obviously you can back in january obviously you can download the report and look through it download the report and look through it download the report and look through it it has our commentary and thoughts on it has our commentary and thoughts on it has our commentary and thoughts on notable surprises you know both notable surprises you know both notable surprises you know both surprises surprises surprises well it surprises both good and bad well it surprises both good and bad well it surprises both good and bad right things that we thought would be right things that we thought would be right things that we thought would be higher or lower um and then things that higher or lower um and then things that higher or lower um and then things that we expected we expected we expected to happen right the way we had the rule to happen right the way we had the rule to happen right the way we had the rule of thumb of oh i thought it would be of thumb of oh i thought it would be of thumb of oh i thought it would be that 10 or 15 and it wound up you know that 10 or 15 and it wound up you know that 10 or 15 and it wound up you know being being being that so um i won't go through a bunch of that so um i won't go through a bunch of that so um i won't go through a bunch of the the pages here but the the pages here but the the pages here but um i think xander is post yeah there he i think xander is post yeah there he goes there's a link to 2021 so that live goes there's a link to 2021 so that live goes there's a link to 2021 so that live stream was was actually kind of fun stream was was actually kind of fun stream was was actually kind of fun to uh to uh to uh to um send i was going to say to record to um send i was going to say to record to um send i was going to say to record but of course we didn't record it but of course we didn't record it but of course we didn't record it um yeah you should watch back at that if um yeah you should watch back at that if um yeah you should watch back at that if you want to find out more just get a

you want to find out more just get a you want to find out more just get a high level overview or look through the high level overview or look through the high level overview or look through the report itself report itself report itself all yeah yeah call for questions call for questions call for questions if you have a question post it in the if you have a question post it in the if you have a question post it in the slack or you can obviously come on and slack or you can obviously come on and slack or you can obviously come on and do a video question i think i want to do a video question i think i want to do a video question i think i want to circle back to the circle back to the circle back to the kind of why of why we do this um kind of why of why we do this um kind of why of why we do this um obviously you know there's a lot of obviously you know there's a lot of obviously you know there's a lot of reports for the venture capital crowd reports for the venture capital crowd reports for the venture capital crowd and that's what the majority i mean we and that's what the majority i mean we and that's what the majority i mean we are essentially a subculture of startups are essentially a subculture of startups are essentially a subculture of startups right startups is this huge umbrella right startups is this huge umbrella right startups is this huge umbrella that includes that includes that includes you know biotech you know biotech you know biotech and and and physical you know making drones and physical you know making drones and physical you know making drones and making physical products and all that making physical products and all that making physical products and all that stuff and then if you go down to say stuff and then if you go down to say stuff and then if you go down to say software software software is a subset of that is a subset of that is a subset of that and even that includes and even that includes and even that includes software that you know that run the software that you know that run the software that you know that run the facebook games they used to have um facebook games they used to have um facebook games they used to have um remember when farmville was a big deal remember when farmville was a big deal remember when farmville was a big deal mobile apps and there's all types of mobile apps and there's all types of mobile apps and there's all types of software so then a subset of that is sas software so then a subset of that is sas software so then a subset of that is sas subscription software b2b sas and then subscription software b2b sas and then subscription software b2b sas and then within b2b sas the prevailing narrative within b2b sas the prevailing narrative within b2b sas the prevailing narrative is venture capital right it's that to do is venture capital right it's that to do is venture capital right it's that to do it it it you um you um you um you know that you need to you know that you need to you know that you need to raise venture capital in order to do it raise venture capital in order to do it raise venture capital in order to do it and then we are itself are as you know a and then we are itself are as you know a and then we are itself are as you know a subset of that but what i've noticed subset of that but what i've noticed subset of that but what i've noticed actually i almost sent this tweet out actually i almost sent this tweet out actually i almost sent this tweet out which was a it's a graph of the number which was a it's a graph of the number which was a it's a graph of the number of of of i believe it's the number of funded i believe it's the number of funded i believe it's the number of funded startups in crunchbase startups in crunchbase startups in crunchbase is decreasing and it might even be the is decreasing and it might even be the is decreasing and it might even be the number funded sas startups i forget but

number funded sas startups i forget but number funded sas startups i forget but the graph is the graph is the graph is dropping every year since like 2014 dropping every year since like 2014 dropping every year since like 2014 and what we've seen with microconf is and what we've seen with microconf is and what we've seen with microconf is the number of bootstrap or independent the number of bootstrap or independent the number of bootstrap or independent sas companies sas companies sas companies is growing every year is growing every year is growing every year and and and i don't think that's a coincidence i i don't think that's a coincidence i i don't think that's a coincidence i think people are tired of the narrative think people are tired of the narrative think people are tired of the narrative and wanted like the reason that everyone and wanted like the reason that everyone and wanted like the reason that everyone was raising venture capital to do b2b was raising venture capital to do b2b was raising venture capital to do b2b sass because that was the only way they sass because that was the only way they sass because that was the only way they knew how right and that's what the big knew how right and that's what the big knew how right and that's what the big narrative is um narrative is um narrative is um and and and we have been trying to we have been trying to we have been trying to to change that right to shift the to change that right to shift the to change that right to shift the narrative to be like no this is another narrative to be like no this is another narrative to be like no this is another option and for most people for most option and for most people for most option and for most people for most companies it's actually a better companies it's actually a better companies it's actually a better approach to basically bootstrap or approach to basically bootstrap or approach to basically bootstrap or mostly bootstrap your company mostly bootstrap your company mostly bootstrap your company venture capital has its place and venture capital has its place and venture capital has its place and venture capital is venture capital is venture capital is obviously it's successful monetarily obviously it's successful monetarily obviously it's successful monetarily and and and it is needed for certain types of it is needed for certain types of it is needed for certain types of companies and in certain situations and companies and in certain situations and companies and in certain situations and i would never tell someone to not raise i would never tell someone to not raise i would never tell someone to not raise venture capital i would just say know venture capital i would just say know venture capital i would just say know what you're getting into and 99 of what you're getting into and 99 of what you're getting into and 99 of companies don't need it right one companies don't need it right one companies don't need it right one percent of maybe of tech startups or of percent of maybe of tech startups or of percent of maybe of tech startups or of sas startups sas startups sas startups maybe need vc and we're maybe need vc and we're maybe need vc and we're we're the other 99 right we're the other 99 right we're the other 99 right that's what microcom's been about that's that's what microcom's been about that's that's what microcom's been about that's what tiny seeds about is funding and what tiny seeds about is funding and what tiny seeds about is funding and education education education and and community for the other and and community for the other and and community for the other 99 all right all right i am going to talk about some i am going to talk about some i am going to talk about some bootstrapper news because we don't have bootstrapper news because we don't have bootstrapper news because we don't have any questions i guess the uh the state any questions i guess the uh the state any questions i guess the uh the state of independence sas report of independence sas report of independence sas report is so amazing already xander and i will

is so amazing already xander and i will is so amazing already xander and i will be making changes too by the way we'll be making changes too by the way we'll be making changes too by the way we'll we'll i appreciate your suggestion so we'll i appreciate your suggestion so we'll i appreciate your suggestion so far and uh we've been looking through far and uh we've been looking through far and uh we've been looking through um um um looking through it to figure out what looking through it to figure out what looking through it to figure out what changes you want to make i'm look i have changes you want to make i'm look i have changes you want to make i'm look i have a couple topics and i wanted to dang it a couple topics and i wanted to dang it a couple topics and i wanted to dang it where are those looking through my where are those looking through my where are those looking through my trello board here trello board here trello board here oh no i know i put it in the outline oh no i know i put it in the outline oh no i know i put it in the outline all right well see i already talked all right well see i already talked all right well see i already talked about the microconf sale a microcom cell about the microconf sale a microcom cell about the microconf sale a microcom cell the mailchimp sale sorry i had an the mailchimp sale sorry i had an the mailchimp sale sorry i had an abbreviation that confused me um oh i abbreviation that confused me um oh i abbreviation that confused me um oh i did want to let folks know if you did want to let folks know if you did want to let folks know if you haven't heard haven't heard haven't heard um you know tiny seed is um you know tiny seed is um you know tiny seed is a fund you've probably heard of it but a fund you've probably heard of it but a fund you've probably heard of it but it's a fund that we started out of it's a fund that we started out of it's a fund that we started out of microconf when we saw the need that microconf when we saw the need that microconf when we saw the need that folks wanted to not go on the venture folks wanted to not go on the venture folks wanted to not go on the venture track but they wanted to raise just track but they wanted to raise just track but they wanted to raise just enough funding and have just enough enough funding and have just enough enough funding and have just enough mentorship and advice to basically grow mentorship and advice to basically grow mentorship and advice to basically grow faster and so tiny seed writes checks faster and so tiny seed writes checks faster and so tiny seed writes checks between you know 120k for the first between you know 120k for the first between you know 120k for the first founder and then uh you know founder and then uh you know founder and then uh you know 180 for two and 220 for three 180 for two and 220 for three 180 for two and 220 for three and we provide a year-long remote and we provide a year-long remote and we provide a year-long remote accelerator accelerator accelerator and and and we've raised two funds in the u.s we've raised two funds in the u.s we've raised two funds in the u.s totaling north of 31 million and we've totaling north of 31 million and we've totaling north of 31 million and we've funded we're going to about to write our funded we're going to about to write our funded we're going to about to write our i think our 60th check i think our 60th check i think our 60th check with our fourth batch with our fourth batch with our fourth batch but we have struggled um but we have struggled um but we have struggled um i'll say this it's very hard to support i'll say this it's very hard to support i'll say this it's very hard to support companies that are located around the companies that are located around the companies that are located around the world because the laws are so cumbersome world because the laws are so cumbersome world because the laws are so cumbersome every country is different every country is different every country is different finding legal representation everywhere finding legal representation everywhere finding legal representation everywhere is expensive and even just figuring out is expensive and even just figuring out is expensive and even just figuring out what the tax implications are very what the tax implications are very what the tax implications are very expensive so expensive so expensive so um what we've done is we have our u.s

um what we've done is we have our u.s um what we've done is we have our u.s funds and then we are just starting to funds and then we are just starting to funds and then we are just starting to raise our europe fund and it's going to raise our europe fund and it's going to raise our europe fund and it's going to be the europe time zone so not only is be the europe time zone so not only is be the europe time zone so not only is it you know from the uk all the way um it you know from the uk all the way um it you know from the uk all the way um east through europe but it goes south east through europe but it goes south east through europe but it goes south through uh middle east and africa and through uh middle east and africa and through uh middle east and africa and such so such so such so i'm pretty excited about this we are i'm pretty excited about this we are i'm pretty excited about this we are we've got a lot of interest from we've got a lot of interest from we've got a lot of interest from investors um so our tiny seed europe investors um so our tiny seed europe investors um so our tiny seed europe fund is doing well obviously if you're fund is doing well obviously if you're fund is doing well obviously if you're interested if you're accredited and interested if you're accredited and interested if you're accredited and interested investing in um b2b sas interested investing in um b2b sas interested investing in um b2b sas companies in europe companies in europe companies in europe that you should get in touch head to that you should get in touch head to that you should get in touch head to tinyce.com invest or if you're a founder tinyce.com invest or if you're a founder tinyce.com invest or if you're a founder in europe we're gonna be able to support in europe we're gonna be able to support in europe we're gonna be able to support at least one hopefully two you know that at least one hopefully two you know that at least one hopefully two you know that we don't know the number yet but we don't know the number yet but we don't know the number yet but um european entities right so there's um european entities right so there's um european entities right so there's each country unfortunate i wish there each country unfortunate i wish there each country unfortunate i wish there was an eu or a european entity but it's was an eu or a european entity but it's was an eu or a european entity but it's not right germany has their own and uk not right germany has their own and uk not right germany has their own and uk has their own luxembourg and this and has their own luxembourg and this and has their own luxembourg and this and that and so that and so that and so um um um we're going to be looking at which one we're going to be looking at which one we're going to be looking at which one or two that we will be able to support or two that we will be able to support or two that we will be able to support such that people don't have to convert such that people don't have to convert such that people don't have to convert to a u.s entity we've wanted to do this to a u.s entity we've wanted to do this to a u.s entity we've wanted to do this since the start since the start since the start and it's you know it's just something and it's you know it's just something and it's you know it's just something that takes time right you can't do that takes time right you can't do that takes time right you can't do everything all at once so everything all at once so everything all at once so i am excited about that um i am excited about that um i am excited about that um we are oh there's some questions coming we are oh there's some questions coming we are oh there's some questions coming in i'll jump to in just a second but let in i'll jump to in just a second but let in i'll jump to in just a second but let me wrap this up so we are also me wrap this up so we are also me wrap this up so we are also talking uh uh we're hiring a program talking uh uh we're hiring a program talking uh uh we're hiring a program manager who is gonna manager who is gonna manager who is gonna work with tracy who you've probably work with tracy who you've probably work with tracy who you've probably heard heard heard on um on um on um on startups to the rest of us and may on startups to the rest of us and may on startups to the rest of us and may have seen her at microkoff but she's our have seen her at microkoff but she's our have seen her at microkoff but she's our program director for tinyseed and you'd program director for tinyseed and you'd program director for tinyseed and you'd work with her to basically run

work with her to basically run work with her to basically run the european accelerator so if you want the european accelerator so if you want the european accelerator so if you want to work with to work with to work with awesome ambitious mostly bootstrap sass awesome ambitious mostly bootstrap sass awesome ambitious mostly bootstrap sass founders and work with me and anar and founders and work with me and anar and founders and work with me and anar and tracy you should head to tracy you should head to tracy you should head to tinycea.com and there's a jobs link at tinycea.com and there's a jobs link at tinycea.com and there's a jobs link at the bottom if you want to see what a the bottom if you want to see what a the bottom if you want to see what a program manager does program manager does program manager does all right all right all right a question do you guys have plans to a question do you guys have plans to a question do you guys have plans to have an awards and certification in the have an awards and certification in the have an awards and certification in the future just like michelin did for their future just like michelin did for their future just like michelin did for their restaurant michelin stars from eli restaurant michelin stars from eli restaurant michelin stars from eli odrilag odrilag odrilag um um um you know you know you know we have we haven't talked about that we we have we haven't talked about that we we have we haven't talked about that we did an awards thing for podcast right did an awards thing for podcast right did an awards thing for podcast right the sas podcast awards the sas podcast awards the sas podcast awards and i believe you can head to and i believe you can head to and i believe you can head to sasspodcastawards.com to find a list of sasspodcastawards.com to find a list of sasspodcastawards.com to find a list of the 50 50 that were nominated and then the 50 50 that were nominated and then the 50 50 that were nominated and then we had a winner in a few categories and we had a winner in a few categories and we had a winner in a few categories and that was great fun last december that was great fun last december that was great fun last december um um um we have discussed potentially having we have discussed potentially having we have discussed potentially having company awards but it's almost like what company awards but it's almost like what company awards but it's almost like what would that be like would that be like would that be like you know i i guess we could have you know i i guess we could have you know i i guess we could have different categories you'd have to think different categories you'd have to think different categories you'd have to think about it we could have a top 100 list about it we could have a top 100 list about it we could have a top 100 list based on people that have to disclose based on people that have to disclose based on people that have to disclose revenue you know there's like the inc revenue you know there's like the inc revenue you know there's like the inc 500 right you have to qualify for it 500 right you have to qualify for it 500 right you have to qualify for it based on growth so we could do something based on growth so we could do something based on growth so we could do something like that the microconf 100.

like that the microconf 100. like that the microconf 100. um i'm not sure i understand this um i'm not sure i understand this um i'm not sure i understand this certification piece um eli maybe you can certification piece um eli maybe you can certification piece um eli maybe you can post that back and zander can relay that post that back and zander can relay that post that back and zander can relay that but but but what would you be getting certified in what would you be getting certified in what would you be getting certified in you know would we say that stamp of you know would we say that stamp of you know would we say that stamp of approval like this is a founder who approval like this is a founder who approval like this is a founder who knows what they're doing or would we say knows what they're doing or would we say knows what they're doing or would we say you're certified in that you know you're certified in that you know you're certified in that you know marketing or would we say your company marketing or would we say your company marketing or would we say your company is somehow certified and that uh your is somehow certified and that uh your is somehow certified and that uh your metrics are good or something like that metrics are good or something like that metrics are good or something like that so i'm not sure what what we do there so i'm not sure what what we do there so i'm not sure what what we do there um um um question from spencer he said how did question from spencer he said how did question from spencer he said how did the microconf yeah let's just make this the microconf yeah let's just make this the microconf yeah let's just make this an ama at this point right we have 10 an ama at this point right we have 10 an ama at this point right we have 10 more minutes just ask about anything more minutes just ask about anything more minutes just ask about anything doesn't he doesn't need to be on topic doesn't he doesn't need to be on topic doesn't he doesn't need to be on topic um he's asking how did the microconf um he's asking how did the microconf um he's asking how did the microconf in-person events go did the one day in-person events go did the one day in-person events go did the one day local event model work well that's a local event model work well that's a local event model work well that's a great question actually so the events great question actually so the events great question actually so the events were super fun we have not done an event were super fun we have not done an event were super fun we have not done an event in two years and um in two years and um in two years and um sorry sorry sorry two years and we did four events in four two years and we did four events in four two years and we did four events in four weeks we had i believe north of 300 weeks we had i believe north of 300 weeks we had i believe north of 300 people at those events people at those events people at those events social distance uh you know social distance uh you know social distance uh you know everyone was vaccinated um hand everyone was vaccinated um hand everyone was vaccinated um hand sanitizer all over the place masked and sanitizer all over the place masked and sanitizer all over the place masked and most of them it wound up being really most of them it wound up being really most of them it wound up being really fun even in spite of like the coveted fun even in spite of like the coveted fun even in spite of like the coveted fears fears fears the numbers were smaller than we would the numbers were smaller than we would the numbers were smaller than we would have had without covid um like i said we have had without covid um like i said we have had without covid um like i said we had about 300 people across those events had about 300 people across those events had about 300 people across those events and i think at capacity and i think at capacity and i think at capacity if it was non-coveted i think there if it was non-coveted i think there if it was non-coveted i think there would have been 450 or 500 people across would have been 450 or 500 people across would have been 450 or 500 people across them so um but it was still totally them so um but it was still totally them so um but it was still totally worth doing worth doing worth doing and and and the interesting part was that to your the interesting part was that to your the interesting part was that to your question of the one day locals like did question of the one day locals like did question of the one day locals like did the format work format absolutely worked

the format work format absolutely worked the format work format absolutely worked it was great we started at like 10 or 10 it was great we started at like 10 or 10 it was great we started at like 10 or 10 30. there was a a talk and then a short 30. there was a a talk and then a short 30. there was a a talk and then a short session and then lunch session and then lunch session and then lunch and then we did some stuff in the and then we did some stuff in the and then we did some stuff in the afternoon then there was a happy hour afternoon then there was a happy hour afternoon then there was a happy hour tons of time and there was an hour tons of time and there was an hour tons of time and there was an hour morning for people to connect and that morning for people to connect and that morning for people to connect and that was a big piece of it is we we of course was a big piece of it is we we of course was a big piece of it is we we of course had the education but the education and had the education but the education and had the education but the education and the the talks from folks like myself and the the talks from folks like myself and the the talks from folks like myself and and asia arangio and jordan gall um and asia arangio and jordan gall um and asia arangio and jordan gall um those are an excuse for us all to get those are an excuse for us all to get those are an excuse for us all to get together in a room and then you're together in a room and then you're together in a room and then you're sitting in boston or portland or oregon sitting in boston or portland or oregon sitting in boston or portland or oregon or croatia and you're saying or croatia and you're saying or croatia and you're saying you know who around i guess the one day you know who around i guess the one day you know who around i guess the one day formats who around me lives in this city formats who around me lives in this city formats who around me lives in this city right and who should why don't we start right and who should why don't we start right and who should why don't we start hanging out once a month um because hanging out once a month um because hanging out once a month um because you're other micro conference and to be you're other micro conference and to be you're other micro conference and to be honest we thought it would be a lot of honest we thought it would be a lot of honest we thought it would be a lot of early stage folks we were gearing it early stage folks we were gearing it early stage folks we were gearing it towards early stage turns out that towards early stage turns out that towards early stage turns out that wasn't that wasn't what happened there wasn't that wasn't what happened there wasn't that wasn't what happened there were definitely some early stage folks were definitely some early stage folks were definitely some early stage folks but there were a lot of folks who were but there were a lot of folks who were but there were a lot of folks who were further along there were six and seven further along there were six and seven further along there were six and seven figure businesses um and they just figure businesses um and they just figure businesses um and they just wanted to come for the community and wanted to come for the community and wanted to come for the community and because it was easy it's in their town because it was easy it's in their town because it was easy it's in their town right and you can drive 30 minutes or right and you can drive 30 minutes or right and you can drive 30 minutes or whatever and pay whatever and pay whatever and pay you know 100 200 bucks to go to an event you know 100 200 bucks to go to an event you know 100 200 bucks to go to an event so i thought the format worked very well so i thought the format worked very well so i thought the format worked very well um um um and and and i think people got a lot of value out of i think people got a lot of value out of i think people got a lot of value out of it then you know our it then you know our it then you know our surveys at the end um show a very high surveys at the end um show a very high surveys at the end um show a very high nps right which means a lot of people nps right which means a lot of people nps right which means a lot of people would recommend it to a friend would recommend it to a friend would recommend it to a friend and so i think overall it was a lot of and so i think overall it was a lot of and so i think overall it was a lot of logistics producer xander did a great logistics producer xander did a great logistics producer xander did a great job of pulling all that together and it job of pulling all that together and it job of pulling all that together and it was a lot of travel i think the doing of was a lot of travel i think the doing of was a lot of travel i think the doing of four weeks in a row was not ideal um we four weeks in a row was not ideal um we four weeks in a row was not ideal um we wanted to do a road show and it sounded wanted to do a road show and it sounded wanted to do a road show and it sounded like fun but like fun but like fun but by the time we were at our third or

by the time we were at our third or by the time we were at our third or fourth event we were pretty tired so i fourth event we were pretty tired so i fourth event we were pretty tired so i think next year think next year think next year uh in 2022 we will wind up spacing them uh in 2022 we will wind up spacing them uh in 2022 we will wind up spacing them out you know having whether we do one a out you know having whether we do one a out you know having whether we do one a month or whatever month or whatever month or whatever we want some space between them so that we want some space between them so that we want some space between them so that we're not constantly on the road is how we're not constantly on the road is how we're not constantly on the road is how it felt it felt it felt but i think we'll make some minor tweaks but i think we'll make some minor tweaks but i think we'll make some minor tweaks but um but um but um to locals to locals to locals but i think uh overall but i think uh overall but i think uh overall the experiment worked you know it the experiment worked you know it the experiment worked you know it succeeded and yeah just so you know like succeeded and yeah just so you know like succeeded and yeah just so you know like the next we now have a nice break which the next we now have a nice break which the next we now have a nice break which is good to let kovitz settle down our is good to let kovitz settle down our is good to let kovitz settle down our next event is in minneapolis it's micro next event is in minneapolis it's micro next event is in minneapolis it's micro cup growth in april and so if you cup growth in april and so if you cup growth in april and so if you haven't gotten a ticket to that it's haven't gotten a ticket to that it's haven't gotten a ticket to that it's gonna be gonna be amazing i mean gonna be gonna be amazing i mean gonna be gonna be amazing i mean assuming you know knock on wood assuming assuming you know knock on wood assuming assuming you know knock on wood assuming kovid's gone it'll be a nice 250 270 kovid's gone it'll be a nice 250 270 kovid's gone it'll be a nice 250 270 person event you know like back and back person event you know like back and back person event you know like back and back in the before times and those are our in the before times and those are our in the before times and those are our that's our flagship uh event all right all right in addition i was trying to think of any in addition i was trying to think of any in addition i was trying to think of any i had the microcup in person yeah and i had the microcup in person yeah and i had the microcup in person yeah and you know at a certain point like i was you know at a certain point like i was you know at a certain point like i was wondering was this worth the wondering was this worth the wondering was this worth the you know i always ask myself is this the you know i always ask myself is this the you know i always ask myself is this the best thing we can be spending our time best thing we can be spending our time best thing we can be spending our time on right because we we can only do we on right because we we can only do we on right because we we can only do we only have so much bandwidth um and i only have so much bandwidth um and i only have so much bandwidth um and i feel like getting people together in a feel like getting people together in a feel like getting people together in a room room room was super valuable you know i think that was super valuable you know i think that was super valuable you know i think that there was a lot of a lot of value both there was a lot of a lot of value both there was a lot of a lot of value both between the attendees and um between the attendees and um between the attendees and um and for us to be in front it reminded me and for us to be in front it reminded me and for us to be in front it reminded me just how real this is right how just how real this is right how just how real this is right how there are so many amazing founders boots there are so many amazing founders boots there are so many amazing founders boots trapping around the world who are trapping around the world who are trapping around the world who are ambitious and want to get it done and it ambitious and want to get it done and it ambitious and want to get it done and it was fun to to see folks and

was fun to to see folks and was fun to to see folks and and fist bump and fist bump and fist bump i don't because of covet right so fist i don't because of covet right so fist i don't because of covet right so fist bumping bumping bumping trying to think of what else to say trying to think of what else to say trying to think of what else to say about that xander was producer xander was reminding xander was producer xander was reminding me that we are gearing up for our next me that we are gearing up for our next me that we are gearing up for our next remote event we call it microcomp remote remote event we call it microcomp remote remote event we call it microcomp remote it's a virtual event and we did one back it's a virtual event and we did one back it's a virtual event and we did one back in march in march in march and we do it it's about 90 minutes a day and we do it it's about 90 minutes a day and we do it it's about 90 minutes a day over three days over three days over three days and and and with last theme was early stage with last theme was early stage with last theme was early stage marketing approaches marketing approaches marketing approaches so we covered product hunt and um we had so we covered product hunt and um we had so we covered product hunt and um we had you know case studies of people who did you know case studies of people who did you know case studies of people who did derek reimer did a product hunt launch derek reimer did a product hunt launch derek reimer did a product hunt launch we had someone who did like a bunch of we had someone who did like a bunch of we had someone who did like a bunch of stuff on quora and had gotten you know stuff on quora and had gotten you know stuff on quora and had gotten you know talked through exactly how they did it talked through exactly how they did it talked through exactly how they did it we are working on the theme we are working on the theme we are working on the theme for our for our for our december december december microconf remote microconf remote microconf remote and pretty sure we're going to do no and pretty sure we're going to do no and pretty sure we're going to do no code so that actually is relevant to code so that actually is relevant to code so that actually is relevant to tony's question earlier tony's question earlier tony's question earlier there's a lot around it right and it's there's a lot around it right and it's there's a lot around it right and it's not just no code for building mvps which not just no code for building mvps which not just no code for building mvps which i think is what a lot of people think i think is what a lot of people think i think is what a lot of people think about but you can use no code to about but you can use no code to about but you can use no code to you know cobble together a support you know cobble together a support you know cobble together a support process you can use no code for process you can use no code for process you can use no code for marketing you can build a no code tool marketing you can build a no code tool marketing you can build a no code tool as lead gen you can build a no code tool as lead gen you can build a no code tool as lead gen you can build a no code tool to do seo you can build uh no code tools to do seo you can build uh no code tools to do seo you can build uh no code tools to do a lot of things i mean i will say to do a lot of things i mean i will say to do a lot of things i mean i will say even even even microconf tinyseed is not a software microconf tinyseed is not a software microconf tinyseed is not a software company right but we use a bunch of no company right but we use a bunch of no company right but we use a bunch of no code type stuff we call you know cobble code type stuff we call you know cobble code type stuff we call you know cobble together reform um and and savvycal was

together reform um and and savvycal was together reform um and and savvycal was zappier to do automations uh i believe zappier to do automations uh i believe zappier to do automations uh i believe producers andrew uses airtable for um producers andrew uses airtable for um producers andrew uses airtable for um you know some the mastermind matching you know some the mastermind matching you know some the mastermind matching which is going on right now that's which is going on right now that's which is going on right now that's another thing i should mention but um another thing i should mention but um another thing i should mention but um and we use notion which you know for and we use notion which you know for and we use notion which you know for both the podcast and and a bunch of both the podcast and and a bunch of both the podcast and and a bunch of internal tiny sea stuff so there internal tiny sea stuff so there internal tiny sea stuff so there there's just a place for it and i think there's just a place for it and i think there's just a place for it and i think that the founders these days should be that the founders these days should be that the founders these days should be aware of it so we'll be um aware of it so we'll be um aware of it so we'll be um looking for some awesome speakers for looking for some awesome speakers for looking for some awesome speakers for that if you happen to be you know if you that if you happen to be you know if you that if you happen to be you know if you if you've done something super if you've done something super if you've done something super interesting kind of in this bootstrap interesting kind of in this bootstrap interesting kind of in this bootstrap sas world with no code whether you built sas world with no code whether you built sas world with no code whether you built your mvp with it whether you've used it your mvp with it whether you've used it your mvp with it whether you've used it you know any of the examples i've said you know any of the examples i've said you know any of the examples i've said um or order something else you think um or order something else you think um or order something else you think might be interesting might be interesting might be interesting uh you should apply to speak and we will uh you should apply to speak and we will uh you should apply to speak and we will uh uh uh we'll be getting that going soon we'll be getting that going soon we'll be getting that going soon obviously head to microcomp.com if you obviously head to microcomp.com if you obviously head to microcomp.com if you want to be on the list to uh want to be on the list to uh want to be on the list to uh to learn about when that happens to learn about when that happens to learn about when that happens last thing and then i think i'll sign last thing and then i think i'll sign last thing and then i think i'll sign off well there's two things i do want to off well there's two things i do want to off well there's two things i do want to thank hay and stripe there are headline thank hay and stripe there are headline thank hay and stripe there are headline partners partners partners um um um you know in 2020 they were in 2020 they you know in 2020 they were in 2020 they you know in 2020 they were in 2020 they were in 2021 and were in 2021 and were in 2021 and and onward to 2022 and and they've just and onward to 2022 and and they've just and onward to 2022 and and they've just been big supporters of everything we're been big supporters of everything we're been big supporters of everything we're doing uh doing uh doing uh with microconf and the long-time with microconf and the long-time with microconf and the long-time supporters and the founders have been supporters and the founders have been supporters and the founders have been um so micro have attended microconf and um so micro have attended microconf and um so micro have attended microconf and they've just seen the value of the they've just seen the value of the they've just seen the value of the community and and really the quality of community and and really the quality of community and and really the quality of the the folks who attend so i want to the the folks who attend so i want to the the folks who attend so i want to thank them thank them thank them oh two more questions all right any oh two more questions all right any oh two more questions all right any opinions on blockchain app startups i opinions on blockchain app startups i opinions on blockchain app startups i like the blockchain i like crypto we

like the blockchain i like crypto we like the blockchain i like crypto we have yet to see a b2b have yet to see a b2b have yet to see a b2b sas sas sas um offering that uh i would say from the offering that uh i would say from the tiny seed perspective we have not funded tiny seed perspective we have not funded tiny seed perspective we have not funded one yet but just because no one's one yet but just because no one's one yet but just because no one's applied that has fit you know has made applied that has fit you know has made applied that has fit you know has made sense but sense but sense but it's a it's a quickly expanding place um it's a it's a quickly expanding place um it's a it's a quickly expanding place um the blockchain nfts crypto um i if i the blockchain nfts crypto um i if i the blockchain nfts crypto um i if i were starting one a startup today i were starting one a startup today i were starting one a startup today i would at least consider it would at least consider it would at least consider it my big concern with it though would be my big concern with it though would be my big concern with it though would be am i going to make something b2c am i going to make something b2c am i going to make something b2c and am i and am i and am i you don't you don't want to build a you don't you don't want to build a you don't you don't want to build a solution in search of a problem right solution in search of a problem right solution in search of a problem right it's like just because there's new it's like just because there's new it's like just because there's new technology doesn't necessarily mean you technology doesn't necessarily mean you technology doesn't necessarily mean you should go build on it it's like what should go build on it it's like what should go build on it it's like what problem you're gonna solve i would start problem you're gonna solve i would start problem you're gonna solve i would start there and then i would think how can i there and then i would think how can i there and then i would think how can i go backwards and how can i how much can go backwards and how can i how much can go backwards and how can i how much can you validate this right you validate this right you validate this right so so so i like it though i like it though i like it though let's see another question wondering if let's see another question wondering if let's see another question wondering if i should use drip user i should use drip user i should use drip user or convertkit for my pre-sale product or convertkit for my pre-sale product or convertkit for my pre-sale product fit survey landing page fit survey landing page fit survey landing page um i would you could use mailchimp too um i would you could use mailchimp too um i would you could use mailchimp too which is free which is free which is free i don't i would say i don't i would say i don't i would say you know send fox is pretty good and you know send fox is pretty good and you know send fox is pretty good and inexpensive um inexpensive um inexpensive um mailer light mailer light mailer light l-i-t-e l-i-t-e l-i-t-e if you just want something super simple if you just want something super simple if you just want something super simple those are the two that i hear people those are the two that i hear people those are the two that i hear people using these days that are just a lot using these days that are just a lot using these days that are just a lot simpler than what you said now you am a simpler than what you said now you am a simpler than what you said now you am a fan of of user list absolutely drip as fan of of user list absolutely drip as fan of of user list absolutely drip as well um i have not used convertkit but

well um i have not used convertkit but well um i have not used convertkit but uh i think for your pre-sell product uh i think for your pre-sell product uh i think for your pre-sell product market fit landing page drip is drip and market fit landing page drip is drip and market fit landing page drip is drip and convertkit are both too heavy um heavy convertkit are both too heavy um heavy convertkit are both too heavy um heavy duty duty duty and user list certainly is something and user list certainly is something and user list certainly is something that i that i would recommend someone that i that i would recommend someone that i that i would recommend someone wants to come join me for a minute all wants to come join me for a minute all wants to come join me for a minute all right right right let's get him on let's get him on let's get him on get him on get him on get him on the camera someone asked me about see the camera someone asked me about see the camera someone asked me about see well he's getting hooked up any secrets well he's getting hooked up any secrets well he's getting hooked up any secrets you want to share about 2022 you want to share about 2022 you want to share about 2022 i don't know i think i'm trying to think i don't know i think i'm trying to think i don't know i think i'm trying to think if we have any secrets if we have any secrets if we have any secrets oh that's xander's question that's funny oh that's xander's question that's funny oh that's xander's question that's funny i don't i don't i don't it's like we're still planning it and so it's like we're still planning it and so it's like we're still planning it and so i don't really have any big reveals i don't really have any big reveals i don't really have any big reveals we're still working on like where is we're still working on like where is we're still working on like where is microcomp europe going to be how many microcomp europe going to be how many microcomp europe going to be how many locals are we going to host is there locals are we going to host is there locals are we going to host is there anything new you know we'll do the state anything new you know we'll do the state anything new you know we'll do the state of independence ask because we do that of independence ask because we do that of independence ask because we do that every year every year every year but i can't think offhand of any big but i can't think offhand of any big but i can't think offhand of any big big secrets that'll be coming concierge or landing page mvp concierge or landing page mvp question mark i don't think that's a question mark i don't think that's a question mark i don't think that's a full question i gotta tell you it was fun to be in a i gotta tell you it was fun to be in a room with room with room with startup founders again to be honest ah startup founders again to be honest ah startup founders again to be honest ah there we go there we go there we go all right question would you recommend all right question would you recommend all right question would you recommend offering a service that caters to where offering a service that caters to where offering a service that caters to where your crowd segment is in their life your crowd segment is in their life your crowd segment is in their life career now or build for they where they

career now or build for they where they career now or build for they where they will be in the future will be in the future will be in the future it's an interesting question it feels it's an interesting question it feels it's an interesting question it feels like i need more context i'm going to be like i need more context i'm going to be like i need more context i'm going to be honest um honest um honest um because i just there's new there it's because i just there's new there it's because i just there's new there it's kind of like it depends on what exactly kind of like it depends on what exactly kind of like it depends on what exactly you're talking about you're talking about you're talking about i would tend to build something someone i would tend to build something someone i would tend to build something someone needs to use today not that they're needs to use today not that they're needs to use today not that they're going to need in a year but if i'm going to need in a year but if i'm going to need in a year but if i'm building courses to educate i'm going to building courses to educate i'm going to building courses to educate i'm going to be trying to build those be trying to build those be trying to build those to get people where they want to be in to get people where they want to be in to get people where they want to be in the future if that makes sense but most the future if that makes sense but most the future if that makes sense but most sas apps are sas apps are sas apps are you know it's a need someone has today you know it's a need someone has today you know it's a need someone has today that would be my loose rule of thumb all right all right producer xander you know i'm gonna wrap producer xander you know i'm gonna wrap producer xander you know i'm gonna wrap it up microconf local london yeah yeah microconf local london yeah yeah microsoft local london is in may of next microsoft local london is in may of next microsoft local london is in may of next year may 18th keep that on your radar uh year may 18th keep that on your radar uh year may 18th keep that on your radar uh microconf.com obviously if you want to microconf.com obviously if you want to microconf.com obviously if you want to be on the list and you can indicate be on the list and you can indicate be on the list and you can indicate you're in london then then we'll or you're in london then then we'll or you're in london then then we'll or you're in you know in the uk and then we you're in you know in the uk and then we you're in you know in the uk and then we can can can hit you up hit you up hit you up um when that happens because i do um when that happens because i do um when that happens because i do believe we're going to believe we're going to believe we're going to once covet's done we're going to sell once covet's done we're going to sell once covet's done we're going to sell these locals out because it's just not a these locals out because it's just not a these locals out because it's just not a ton of capacity we're trying to keep ton of capacity we're trying to keep ton of capacity we're trying to keep them small intentionally and we have a them small intentionally and we have a them small intentionally and we have a you know pretty big audience in these you know pretty big audience in these you know pretty big audience in these uh local cities lastly microconf uh local cities lastly microconf uh local cities lastly microconf mastermind matching mastermind matching mastermind matching is open had to mac microconf is open had to mac microconf is open had to mac microconf masterminds.com masterminds.com masterminds.com and that's something that we do a few

and that's something that we do a few and that's something that we do a few times a year and we've matched times a year and we've matched times a year and we've matched i love these numbers xander pulled it's i love these numbers xander pulled it's i love these numbers xander pulled it's like we've matched more than six more like we've matched more than six more like we've matched more than six more than 600 successful matches more than than 600 successful matches more than than 600 successful matches more than 150 million in mrr or an aor 150 million in mrr or an aor 150 million in mrr or an aor and um and um and um i don't remember the other thing oh it's i don't remember the other thing oh it's i don't remember the other thing oh it's like like like 50 countries i mean it's just a real 50 countries i mean it's just a real 50 countries i mean it's just a real you know real pretty amazing effort and you know real pretty amazing effort and you know real pretty amazing effort and we've only been doing it we've been we've only been doing it we've been we've only been doing it we've been doing it for like a year doing it for like a year doing it for like a year um but you head to microsoft um but you head to microsoft um but you head to microsoft masterminds.com you enter your masterminds.com you enter your masterminds.com you enter your you answer a quick survey basically and you answer a quick survey basically and you answer a quick survey basically and you pay a fee based on your arr and then you pay a fee based on your arr and then you pay a fee based on your arr and then you get matched up with other you know i you get matched up with other you know i you get matched up with other you know i say microconf quality say microconf quality say microconf quality bootstrapped and mostly bootstrap bootstrapped and mostly bootstrap bootstrapped and mostly bootstrap founders so it's a great place for founders so it's a great place for founders so it's a great place for longest time we had folks saying i want longest time we had folks saying i want longest time we had folks saying i want a mastermind how do i get matched up and a mastermind how do i get matched up and a mastermind how do i get matched up and it was always like well go post in the it was always like well go post in the it was always like well go post in the slack or whatever but like this is the slack or whatever but like this is the slack or whatever but like this is the way to really way to really way to really get matched up and you know with with get matched up and you know with with get matched up and you know with with folks who are you know at your stage folks who are you know at your stage folks who are you know at your stage maybe a little ahead who are within your maybe a little ahead who are within your maybe a little ahead who are within your time zone you know i forget all the all time zone you know i forget all the all time zone you know i forget all the all the criteria we use but it's stuff that the criteria we use but it's stuff that the criteria we use but it's stuff that we have from years of experience seeing we have from years of experience seeing we have from years of experience seeing successful masterminds run so successful masterminds run so successful masterminds run so with that i guess uh we had someone who with that i guess uh we had someone who with that i guess uh we had someone who was going to come on but looks like was going to come on but looks like was going to come on but looks like we're having some technical difficulties we're having some technical difficulties we're having some technical difficulties so we are at time so we are at time so we are at time and i think we're gonna i'm gonna take and i think we're gonna i'm gonna take and i think we're gonna i'm gonna take us out so thanks for joining us again us out so thanks for joining us again us out so thanks for joining us again today um we'll be back again in two today um we'll be back again in two today um we'll be back again in two weeks with our regularly scheduled live weeks with our regularly scheduled live weeks with our regularly scheduled live stream and i hope you have a good rest stream and i hope you have a good rest stream and i hope you have a good rest of your week