Founder Spotlight + Live Mentoring Session with Phil McCarty, PPC Prophet

we are live dander producer Xander we are live dander producer Xander caught me off guard today welcome to caught me off guard today welcome to caught me off guard today welcome to today's episode of microcom on air I today's episode of microcom on air I today's episode of microcom on air I your host Rob Walling I'm used to the your host Rob Walling I'm used to the your host Rob Walling I'm used to the background music playing we're we're background music playing we're we're background music playing we're we're switching it up shortening the intro so switching it up shortening the intro so switching it up shortening the intro so every other Wednesday at 1 pm Eastern every other Wednesday at 1 pm Eastern every other Wednesday at 1 pm Eastern 10: a.m. Pacific we live stream for 10: a.m. Pacific we live stream for 10: a.m. Pacific we live stream for about 30 minutes and we cover topics about 30 minutes and we cover topics about 30 minutes and we cover topics related to building and growing related to building and growing related to building and growing ambitious SAS startups that bring us ambitious SAS startups that bring us ambitious SAS startups that bring us freedom and purpose and allow us to freedom and purpose and allow us to freedom and purpose and allow us to maintain healthy relationships thanks so maintain healthy relationships thanks so maintain healthy relationships thanks so much for joining me again much for joining me again much for joining me again today um we are going to be diving into today um we are going to be diving into today um we are going to be diving into a Founder Spotlight with Phil mccardy a Founder Spotlight with Phil mccardy a Founder Spotlight with Phil mccardy he's the founder of PPC profit and I he's the founder of PPC profit and I he's the founder of PPC profit and I will be getting some background he's a will be getting some background he's a will be getting some background he's a member of microf connect a member of the member of microf connect a member of the member of microf connect a member of the microf community and so we're going to microf community and so we're going to microf community and so we're going to learn more about what he's up to and I'm learn more about what he's up to and I'm learn more about what he's up to and I'm also going to go into um you know advice also going to go into um you know advice also going to go into um you know advice mode uh to get out of Phill you know mode uh to get out of Phill you know mode uh to get out of Phill you know where he wants to take the business and where he wants to take the business and where he wants to take the business and and offer kind of if I were in his shoes and offer kind of if I were in his shoes and offer kind of if I were in his shoes here's what I would do next um type type here's what I would do next um type type here's what I would do next um type type of stuff so Phil has been making of stuff so Phil has been making of stuff so Phil has been making software for Amazon sellers for the past software for Amazon sellers for the past software for Amazon sellers for the past five years he's a founder of PPC profit five years he's a founder of PPC profit five years he's a founder of PPC profit and I should have asked him for and I should have asked him for and I should have asked him for pronunciation of this one um amete which pronunciation of this one um amete which pronunciation of this one um amete which I'm assuming is Amazon machete amete so I'm assuming is Amazon machete amete so I'm assuming is Amazon machete amete so PPC profit is current uh focus and as PPC profit is current uh focus and as PPC profit is current uh focus and as far as he knows he was the first person far as he knows he was the first person far as he knows he was the first person to generate accurate sales data for to generate accurate sales data for to generate accurate sales data for Amazon Japan he spent the last three Amazon Japan he spent the last three Amazon Japan he spent the last three years developing PPC profit having years developing PPC profit having years developing PPC profit having attended a few events and learned that attended a few events and learned that attended a few events and learned that his target market wasn't really looking his target market wasn't really looking his target market wasn't really looking for the solution he was building so he for the solution he was building so he for the solution he was building so he launched the current iteration launched the current iteration launched the current iteration of his product earlier this year of his product earlier this year of his product earlier this year focusing on agency clients and he has

focusing on agency clients and he has focusing on agency clients and he has been slowly ramping it up since then so been slowly ramping it up since then so been slowly ramping it up since then so with that let me welcome Phil mccardy on with that let me welcome Phil mccardy on with that let me welcome Phil mccardy on Twitter welcome him to the show how's it Twitter welcome him to the show how's it Twitter welcome him to the show how's it going today Phil great how's it going going today Phil great how's it going going today Phil great how's it going Rob it's good man yeah it's good to have Rob it's good man yeah it's good to have Rob it's good man yeah it's good to have you on the show thanks for joining me you on the show thanks for joining me you on the show thanks for joining me such a nice intro as you're going to I such a nice intro as you're going to I such a nice intro as you're going to I was like this Phil guy sounds like was like this Phil guy sounds like was like this Phil guy sounds like someone I should know he sounds I really someone I should know he sounds I really someone I should know he sounds I really want to be friends with this guy exactly want to be friends with this guy exactly want to be friends with this guy exactly and thus the thus the founder Spotlight and thus the thus the founder Spotlight and thus the thus the founder Spotlight because when people see you in microcom because when people see you in microcom because when people see you in microcom Connect or if they see you you know once Connect or if they see you you know once Connect or if they see you you know once we're back doing inperson microc confs we're back doing inperson microc confs we're back doing inperson microc confs they can come up and say I know you and they can come up and say I know you and they can come up and say I know you and I want to talk about PPC profit and I'll I want to talk about PPC profit and I'll I want to talk about PPC profit and I'll say have we met do I all do that awkward say have we met do I all do that awkward say have we met do I all do that awkward thing where I can't remember their name thing where I can't remember their name thing where I can't remember their name and it'll be it'll be great yep and and it'll be it'll be great yep and and it'll be it'll be great yep and that's why whenever I meet anyone out in that's why whenever I meet anyone out in that's why whenever I meet anyone out in the wild I say it's a pleasure to see the wild I say it's a pleasure to see the wild I say it's a pleasure to see you because you because you because that because if I say meet you and I that because if I say meet you and I that because if I say meet you and I mess that we met before and if I say see mess that we met before and if I say see mess that we met before and if I say see you again that it's great to see you and you again that it's great to see you and you again that it's great to see you and it's like it covers both bases Tak notes it's like it covers both bases Tak notes it's like it covers both bases Tak notes already this is a great great advising already this is a great great advising already this is a great great advising session already awesome so um talk to me session already awesome so um talk to me session already awesome so um talk to me about PPC profit and what it does about PPC profit and what it does about PPC profit and what it does describe for me the the the workings of describe for me the the the workings of describe for me the the the workings of it and the value it it and the value it it and the value it provides okay absolutely um so uh if you provides okay absolutely um so uh if you provides okay absolutely um so uh if you are a person who manages um advertising are a person who manages um advertising are a person who manages um advertising spent on Amazon for other people spent on Amazon for other people spent on Amazon for other people primarily which there are a number of primarily which there are a number of primarily which there are a number of these people who knew um a good portion these people who knew um a good portion these people who knew um a good portion of your day will be spent essentially of your day will be spent essentially of your day will be spent essentially converting the data that they are

converting the data that they are converting the data that they are generating in their business and either generating in their business and either generating in their business and either managing it for them and or presenting managing it for them and or presenting managing it for them and or presenting it to them right or kind of keeping an it to them right or kind of keeping an it to them right or kind of keeping an eye on it so like monitoring managing eye on it so like monitoring managing eye on it so like monitoring managing whatever right uh PBC profit is a whatever right uh PBC profit is a whatever right uh PBC profit is a platform which is built to facilitate platform which is built to facilitate platform which is built to facilitate those three kind of like job tasks right those three kind of like job tasks right those three kind of like job tasks right it's to help you spend less time doing it's to help you spend less time doing it's to help you spend less time doing kind of like the things that computers kind of like the things that computers kind of like the things that computers are built for um not in this repetitive are built for um not in this repetitive are built for um not in this repetitive things like generating reports or things like generating reports or things like generating reports or keeping an eye on ad spend or um you keeping an eye on ad spend or um you keeping an eye on ad spend or um you know monitoring acost performance or know monitoring acost performance or know monitoring acost performance or identifying potential oh is this two in identifying potential oh is this two in identifying potential oh is this two in the woods weeds weeds and woods is this the woods weeds weeds and woods is this the woods weeds weeds and woods is this two in the the wood weedy Woods do I two in the the wood weedy Woods do I two in the the wood weedy Woods do I need to kind like back out and explain need to kind like back out and explain need to kind like back out and explain Amazon advertising on a large no Amazon Amazon advertising on a large no Amazon Amazon advertising on a large no Amazon advertising is fine that mean that's for advertising is fine that mean that's for advertising is fine that mean that's for people who want to they have a physical people who want to they have a physical people who want to they have a physical product I actually run advert Amazon product I actually run advert Amazon product I actually run advert Amazon advertising for my book start small stay advertising for my book start small stay advertising for my book start small stay small and it's just me right I'm not an small and it's just me right I'm not an small and it's just me right I'm not an agency so I think people get that so it agency so I think people get that so it agency so I think people get that so it sounds like creating reports for because sounds like creating reports for because sounds like creating reports for because you you focus on agencies who run Amazon you you focus on agencies who run Amazon you you focus on agencies who run Amazon PPC for other for other people who pay PPC for other for other people who pay PPC for other for other people who pay them to do it and so reports is one them to do it and so reports is one them to do it and so reports is one element of it element of it element of it [Music] [Music] [Music] um uh do you is it the second piece is um uh do you is it the second piece is um uh do you is it the second piece is monitoring ad spend and is the third monitoring ad spend and is the third monitoring ad spend and is the third piece like the research and the actual piece like the research and the actual piece like the research and the actual you know the keyword research piece of you know the keyword research piece of you know the keyword research piece of it I'm technically I guess you say this it I'm technically I guess you say this it I'm technically I guess you say this four part so yes um the keyword research four part so yes um the keyword research four part so yes um the keyword research because it's sort of impossible to because it's sort of impossible to because it's sort of impossible to manually monitor all the kind of manually monitor all the kind of manually monitor all the kind of different opportunities that H that different opportunities that H that different opportunities that H that arise as result of your success or arise as result of your success or arise as result of your success or failure in your PBC uh maintenance and failure in your PBC uh maintenance and failure in your PBC uh maintenance and the we also do an automated automation I

the we also do an automated automation I the we also do an automated automation I say we because I'm used to trying to say we because I'm used to trying to say we because I'm used to trying to sound bigger than like I uh we also do sound bigger than like I uh we also do sound bigger than like I uh we also do an automation kind of rules based thing an automation kind of rules based thing an automation kind of rules based thing to automate the management of campaigns to automate the management of campaigns to automate the management of campaigns so it's it's four pieces technically so it's it's four pieces technically so it's it's four pieces technically okay cool and the team is just you that okay cool and the team is just you that okay cool and the team is just you that right just me solo fully bootstrapped right just me solo fully bootstrapped right just me solo fully bootstrapped and you are are you willing to talk and you are are you willing to talk and you are are you willing to talk about revenue or can we give a a range about revenue or can we give a a range about revenue or can we give a a range of where you are yeah absolutely uh well of where you are yeah absolutely uh well of where you are yeah absolutely uh well hold on let me before I answer the hold on let me before I answer the hold on let me before I answer the question is there as a person who's question is there as a person who's question is there as a person who's giving me advice now is there a good giving me advice now is there a good giving me advice now is there a good reason not reason not reason not to I don't think so um especially at to I don't think so um especially at to I don't think so um especially at this point given how early you are I this point given how early you are I this point given how early you are I don't think it's going to it's not like don't think it's going to it's not like don't think it's going to it's not like everyone who you're trying to sell to is everyone who you're trying to sell to is everyone who you're trying to sell to is watching this I mean the only the only watching this I mean the only the only watching this I mean the only the only reason not to do it usually is if you're reason not to do it usually is if you're reason not to do it usually is if you're killing it you'll invite competition and killing it you'll invite competition and killing it you'll invite competition and if you're not killing it then and your if you're not killing it then and your if you're not killing it then and your potential customers are watching it they potential customers are watching it they potential customers are watching it they think oh maybe he's going to go out of think oh maybe he's going to go out of think oh maybe he's going to go out of business right those are usually the big business right those are usually the big business right those are usually the big drawbacks I don't think either of those drawbacks I don't think either of those drawbacks I don't think either of those is going to happen on this is going to happen on this is going to happen on this okay okay right on that sounds good okay okay right on that sounds good okay okay right on that sounds good sounds reasonable to me um yeah we're sounds reasonable to me um yeah we're sounds reasonable to me um yeah we're still so early that it's too hard to say still so early that it's too hard to say still so early that it's too hard to say whether wait I gotta stop doing that I whether wait I gotta stop doing that I whether wait I gotta stop doing that I am still so early it's it's an am still so early it's it's an am still so early it's it's an interesting pivot I'm still so early interesting pivot I'm still so early interesting pivot I'm still so early that I'm not uh it's too hard to say but that I'm not uh it's too hard to say but that I'm not uh it's too hard to say but uh soft launch in March and uh uh soft launch in March and uh uh soft launch in March and uh essentially from one Facebook post in a essentially from one Facebook post in a essentially from one Facebook post in a group of about 100 people about 10 or group of about 100 people about 10 or group of about 100 people about 10 or people signed up from that group post people signed up from that group post people signed up from that group post and I'm currently doing just around and I'm currently doing just around and I'm currently doing just around 3,000 a month in recurring Revenue cool 3,000 a month in recurring Revenue cool 3,000 a month in recurring Revenue cool good for you one post yeah have you had good for you one post yeah have you had good for you one post yeah have you had much have you had much turn zero turn much have you had much turn zero turn much have you had much turn zero turn zero turn okay and do you have any other

zero turn okay and do you have any other zero turn okay and do you have any other marketing um going on or anything on marketing um going on or anything on marketing um going on or anything on your radar that you're going to your radar that you're going to your radar that you're going to start no well not yet so um after that start no well not yet so um after that start no well not yet so um after that you know that soft launch and we got you know that soft launch and we got you know that soft launch and we got like you know a ton of users um with an like you know a ton of users um with an like you know a ton of users um with an average you know um price for user of average you know um price for user of average you know um price for user of 300 about a month um I discovered a 300 about a month um I discovered a 300 about a month um I discovered a number of things that kind of made those number of things that kind of made those number of things that kind of made those first 10 sort of high touch clients first 10 sort of high touch clients first 10 sort of high touch clients right like I had to like answer right like I had to like answer right like I had to like answer questions and and in kind of like questions and and in kind of like questions and and in kind of like logging the friction points and the pain logging the friction points and the pain logging the friction points and the pain points um I just got a text message from points um I just got a text message from points um I just got a text message from a friend saying that I need to speak a friend saying that I need to speak a friend saying that I need to speak louder thanks friend uh thank you Joey louder thanks friend uh thank you Joey louder thanks friend uh thank you Joey uh learned that uh essentially there's a uh learned that uh essentially there's a uh learned that uh essentially there's a lot of documentation that needs to take lot of documentation that needs to take lot of documentation that needs to take place I need to there are a few features place I need to there are a few features place I need to there are a few features that if I don't document them a little that if I don't document them a little that if I don't document them a little more efficiently um the next 20 users more efficiently um the next 20 users more efficiently um the next 20 users would drown me so uh Xander asked in our would drown me so uh Xander asked in our would drown me so uh Xander asked in our initial meeting like you know how many initial meeting like you know how many initial meeting like you know how many users do you want to pick up in June and users do you want to pick up in June and users do you want to pick up in June and I was like n absolutely zero I don't I was like n absolutely zero I don't I was like n absolutely zero I don't want any new users because I need to want any new users because I need to want any new users because I need to sort of like patch up the holes in this sort of like patch up the holes in this sort of like patch up the holes in this ship a little bit put the brakes on a ship a little bit put the brakes on a ship a little bit put the brakes on a bit yeah that makes sense onboarding and bit yeah that makes sense onboarding and bit yeah that makes sense onboarding and and Early Access stuff is always such a and Early Access stuff is always such a and Early Access stuff is always such a huge learning um such a huge learning huge learning um such a huge learning huge learning um such a huge learning curve are there any major features right curve are there any major features right curve are there any major features right now that you've left out that or left now that you've left out that or left now that you've left out that or left out is not the right phrasing but that out is not the right phrasing but that out is not the right phrasing but that that are not in PPC profit that you feel that are not in PPC profit that you feel that are not in PPC profit that you feel like need to be in as soon as possible like need to be in as soon as possible like need to be in as soon as possible or for now is it onboarding then get or for now is it onboarding then get or for now is it onboarding then get more people and build those as as you more people and build those as as you more people and build those as as you have time um I'd say onboarding is more have time um I'd say onboarding is more have time um I'd say onboarding is more important than any additional features important than any additional features important than any additional features and the reason I say this is because I and the reason I say this is because I and the reason I say this is because I spent uh the better part of the last few

spent uh the better part of the last few spent uh the better part of the last few years kind of like feature creeping years kind of like feature creeping years kind of like feature creeping myself um if I were a boss I'd be the myself um if I were a boss I'd be the myself um if I were a boss I'd be the worst boss ever I would constantly give worst boss ever I would constantly give worst boss ever I would constantly give myself new features to like um you know myself new features to like um you know myself new features to like um you know hide behind like oh we can't launch hide behind like oh we can't launch hide behind like oh we can't launch until this um that said there's probably until this um that said there's probably until this um that said there's probably you know there I have a kind of a clear you know there I have a kind of a clear you know there I have a kind of a clear road map of what the next couple road map of what the next couple road map of what the next couple features are and the next one without features are and the next one without features are and the next one without going too deep into it uh right now it going too deep into it uh right now it going too deep into it uh right now it is fairly difficult to see the the value is fairly difficult to see the the value is fairly difficult to see the the value of the platform I don't know I put of the platform I don't know I put of the platform I don't know I put quotes on it it's actually value no quotes on it it's actually value no quotes on it it's actually value no quotes to see the value of the platform quotes to see the value of the platform quotes to see the value of the platform without actually linking your accounts without actually linking your accounts without actually linking your accounts and bringing your customers accounts and and bringing your customers accounts and and bringing your customers accounts and blah there is an easier less friction blah there is an easier less friction blah there is an easier less friction value of that where a person kind of value of that where a person kind of value of that where a person kind of drag and drop some of the existing data drag and drop some of the existing data drag and drop some of the existing data points that Amazon provides in a file points that Amazon provides in a file points that Amazon provides in a file and you could see sort of like a this is and you could see sort of like a this is and you could see sort of like a this is what it would look like if you were what it would look like if you were what it would look like if you were using this platform and it would be nice using this platform and it would be nice using this platform and it would be nice to give people that are not quite ready to give people that are not quite ready to give people that are not quite ready to go through the process of like to go through the process of like to go through the process of like syncing up their Amazon AP blah blah syncing up their Amazon AP blah blah syncing up their Amazon AP blah blah blah where they can just of like in 30 blah where they can just of like in 30 blah where they can just of like in 30 seconds say like I do or don't like this seconds say like I do or don't like this seconds say like I do or don't like this do you know what I mean I think yeah do you know what I mean I think yeah do you know what I mean I think yeah that would be help that's you know that would be help that's you know that would be help that's you know that's the feature I feel like I would that's the feature I feel like I would that's the feature I feel like I would want to do next yep okay that makes want to do next yep okay that makes want to do next yep okay that makes sense all right so I want to drop into sense all right so I want to drop into sense all right so I want to drop into advice mode a little bit so for f if you advice mode a little bit so for f if you advice mode a little bit so for f if you want to view the website it's get PPC want to view the website it's get PPC want to view the website it's get PPC profit P p.com get PPC profit.com profit P p.com get PPC profit.com profit P p.com get PPC profit.com um so when I go to this website I know um so when I go to this website I know um so when I go to this website I know what Amazon sponsored ads are what Amazon sponsored ads are what Amazon sponsored ads are and I am I don't think I can share my and I am I don't think I can share my and I am I don't think I can share my screen let me see oh no this is going to screen let me see oh no this is going to screen let me see oh no this is going to be a landing page gutting I didn't plan be a landing page gutting I didn't plan be a landing page gutting I didn't plan for this I don't think so terrible it's

for this I don't think so terrible it's for this I don't think so terrible it's not it's not even that yeah so first of not it's not even that yeah so first of not it's not even that yeah so first of all yeah I I do think the landing page all yeah I I do think the landing page all yeah I I do think the landing page could communicate it better but I think could communicate it better but I think could communicate it better but I think the bigger issue is not the copy or the the bigger issue is not the copy or the the bigger issue is not the copy or the structure of the landing page the bigger structure of the landing page the bigger structure of the landing page the bigger issue is it it looks to me like you have issue is it it looks to me like you have issue is it it looks to me like you have three separate products is that right three separate products is that right three separate products is that right yeah three separate products three yeah three separate products three yeah three separate products three separate subscriptions separate subscriptions separate subscriptions yeah essentially that's yeah essentially that's yeah essentially that's right that's that feels like yeah that right that's that feels like yeah that right that's that feels like yeah that feels like a red flag to me um like for feels like a red flag to me um like for feels like a red flag to me um like for example if you applied to Tiny Seed example if you applied to Tiny Seed example if you applied to Tiny Seed today the the first thing I would tell today the the first thing I would tell today the the first thing I would tell you is either combine them into one you is either combine them into one you is either combine them into one product or get rid of the two that product or get rid of the two that product or get rid of the two that aren't making money and just focus on aren't making money and just focus on aren't making money and just focus on one just dump two of them or merge them one just dump two of them or merge them one just dump two of them or merge them all into the same code base and have all into the same code base and have all into the same code base and have this be feature gating so you have a this be feature gating so you have a this be feature gating so you have a single subscription you know and people single subscription you know and people single subscription you know and people can be at different tiers based usage or can be at different tiers based usage or can be at different tiers based usage or based on feature based on feature based on feature needs okay I mean essentially that's needs okay I mean essentially that's needs okay I mean essentially that's what I'm aiming for because yeah I I what I'm aiming for because yeah I I what I'm aiming for because yeah I I agree that there there's I just realized agree that there there's I just realized agree that there there's I just realized I was doing the thing where a person I was doing the thing where a person I was doing the thing where a person hears feedback and they instantly go hears feedback and they instantly go hears feedback and they instantly go yeah yeah but and I don't want to do yeah yeah but and I don't want to do yeah yeah but and I don't want to do that yeah know um I'm that's what I'm that yeah know um I'm that's what I'm that yeah know um I'm that's what I'm actually trying to implement on some actually trying to implement on some actually trying to implement on some level is because in the marketplace level is because in the marketplace level is because in the marketplace there's a you know a lot of our there's a you know a lot of our there's a you know a lot of our competitors my competitors I will never competitors my competitors I will never competitors my competitors I will never stop doing that a lot of my competitors stop doing that a lot of my competitors stop doing that a lot of my competitors uh they've got kind of like highly uh they've got kind of like highly uh they've got kind of like highly inflated prices right like it's $1,000 a inflated prices right like it's $1,000 a inflated prices right like it's $1,000 a month or 5% of your revenue or that kind month or 5% of your revenue or that kind month or 5% of your revenue or that kind of thing so I thought an interesting way of thing so I thought an interesting way of thing so I thought an interesting way to sort of compete would be to build to sort of compete would be to build to sort of compete would be to build sort of a modular platform right so and sort of a modular platform right so and sort of a modular platform right so and I guess it'd be interesting to hear your I guess it'd be interesting to hear your I guess it'd be interesting to hear your take on what's the difference between a take on what's the difference between a take on what's the difference between a modular platform and a platform with modular platform and a platform with modular platform and a platform with tiers um but the idea would be that you

tiers um but the idea would be that you tiers um but the idea would be that you know if you want feature X you can know if you want feature X you can know if you want feature X you can subscribe to this if you want feature y subscribe to this if you want feature y subscribe to this if you want feature y you can subscribe to fature Y you don't you can subscribe to fature Y you don't you can subscribe to fature Y you don't have to do them all together and I guess have to do them all together and I guess have to do them all together and I guess on some level you could tier them but on some level you could tier them but on some level you could tier them but for me the idea of a tier it gives me for me the idea of a tier it gives me for me the idea of a tier it gives me the impression that you have this as a the impression that you have this as a the impression that you have this as a foundational feature set and you stack foundational feature set and you stack foundational feature set and you stack on tiered as opposed to kind of a more on tiered as opposed to kind of a more on tiered as opposed to kind of a more um individually um segmented plans where um individually um segmented plans where um individually um segmented plans where you can like a or b or c as opposed to A you can like a or b or c as opposed to A you can like a or b or c as opposed to A and B and C right right um and right now and B and C right right um and right now and B and C right right um and right now in my user base it's pretty evenly split in my user base it's pretty evenly split in my user base it's pretty evenly split you know like there's some people that you know like there's some people that you know like there's some people that want a and some people want B and want a and some people want B and want a and some people want B and there's a lot of people that don't that there's a lot of people that don't that there's a lot of people that don't that definitely don't want all of the above definitely don't want all of the above definitely don't want all of the above if that makes sense yep and my most if that makes sense yep and my most if that makes sense yep and my most recent client oh go ahead Xander you recent client oh go ahead Xander you recent client oh go ahead Xander you were showing the screen there but that were showing the screen there but that were showing the screen there but that was one of the landing pages for an was one of the landing pages for an was one of the landing pages for an individual product if you go back to the individual product if you go back to the individual product if you go back to the route of get ppcc you'll see it's three route of get ppcc you'll see it's three route of get ppcc you'll see it's three separate um cards in essence that and as separate um cards in essence that and as separate um cards in essence that and as you click on each one it feels like you you click on each one it feels like you you click on each one it feels like you go to three different SAS apps with go to three different SAS apps with go to three different SAS apps with three different pricing models and three three different pricing models and three three different pricing models and three different I'm assuming is it three different I'm assuming is it three different I'm assuming is it three different stripe accounts or if I've different stripe accounts or if I've different stripe accounts or if I've signed up for one is it just one click signed up for one is it just one click signed up for one is it just one click to activate the other yeah just one to activate the other yeah just one to activate the other yeah just one stripe account and and you know because stripe account and and you know because stripe account and and you know because stripe was nice enough to kind of create stripe was nice enough to kind of create stripe was nice enough to kind of create a make it easier to have different plans a make it easier to have different plans a make it easier to have different plans or products in your subscription so it or products in your subscription so it or products in your subscription so it would be one one strip bill for all would be one one strip bill for all would be one one strip bill for all three of the things you've signed up three of the things you've signed up three of the things you've signed up for got it so I think the challenge that for got it so I think the challenge that for got it so I think the challenge that I'm seeing is the the something that I'm seeing is the the something that I'm seeing is the the something that kills entrepreneurs or kills their

kills entrepreneurs or kills their kills entrepreneurs or kills their products is lack of focus and the products is lack of focus and the products is lack of focus and the approach you're taking here means you're approach you're taking here means you're approach you're taking here means you're trying to Market three separate things trying to Market three separate things trying to Market three separate things so if you go out and try to do SEO and so if you go out and try to do SEO and so if you go out and try to do SEO and try to do content marketing and try to try to do content marketing and try to try to do content marketing and try to do whatever social media marketing what do whatever social media marketing what do whatever social media marketing what what ter we have split our terms across what ter we have split our terms across what ter we have split our terms across three separate Tools in three separate Tools in three separate Tools in essence am I reading that right yeah and essence am I reading that right yeah and essence am I reading that right yeah and that's when it that's when so I've seen that's when it that's when so I've seen that's when it that's when so I've seen folks here I'll give you an example and folks here I'll give you an example and folks here I'll give you an example and you're not doing this exactly but um a you're not doing this exactly but um a you're not doing this exactly but um a friend of mine runs a SAS app and he friend of mine runs a SAS app and he friend of mine runs a SAS app and he built this uh feature that they're going built this uh feature that they're going built this uh feature that they're going to use internally it's it's its own to use internally it's it's its own to use internally it's it's its own little app and he said well I might as little app and he said well I might as little app and he said well I might as well just start selling this because well just start selling this because well just start selling this because we're using it internally and I said so we're using it internally and I said so we're using it internally and I said so if you do that now you need a separate if you do that now you need a separate if you do that now you need a separate domain he said yeah and I said so now domain he said yeah and I said so now domain he said yeah and I said so now you need to build SEO domain Authority you need to build SEO domain Authority you need to build SEO domain Authority on that now you need to write copy for on that now you need to write copy for on that now you need to write copy for that now you need to have someone that now you need to have someone that now you need to have someone support that you need to have someone support that you need to have someone support that you need to have someone sell it you need documentation for it sell it you need documentation for it sell it you need documentation for it you need a maybe a chat widget you need you need a maybe a chat widget you need you need a maybe a chat widget you need on and on and on and on and selling a on and on and on and on and selling a on and on and on and on and selling a you know selling a SAS app for 100 bucks you know selling a SAS app for 100 bucks you know selling a SAS app for 100 bucks is not so hard but all the stuff around is not so hard but all the stuff around is not so hard but all the stuff around it that we don't think about and then it that we don't think about and then it that we don't think about and then the maintenance and then the add-ons and the maintenance and then the add-ons and the maintenance and then the add-ons and then they found a bug and then the API then they found a bug and then the API then they found a bug and then the API you're using brakes and and da d d so you're using brakes and and da d d so you're using brakes and and da d d so you're not doing that but it is a common you're not doing that but it is a common you're not doing that but it is a common thing for folks to think thing for folks to think thing for folks to think um having separate things is a challenge um having separate things is a challenge um having separate things is a challenge is what I'll say and it's an is what I'll say and it's an is what I'll say and it's an anti-pattern to like I you know I don't anti-pattern to like I you know I don't anti-pattern to like I you know I don't I can't think even like intercom which I can't think even like intercom which I can't think even like intercom which is you know what a billion dollar

is you know what a billion dollar is you know what a billion dollar valuation several billion dollar valuation several billion dollar valuation several billion dollar valuation huge with thousands of valuation huge with thousands of valuation huge with thousands of customers they don't have three separate customers they don't have three separate customers they don't have three separate they they kind of have three separate they they kind of have three separate they they kind of have three separate products like this finally now they're a products like this finally now they're a products like this finally now they're a sweet but they didn't start that way you sweet but they didn't start that way you sweet but they didn't start that way you know back in the day intercom started as know back in the day intercom started as know back in the day intercom started as this very um small thing and we see a this very um small thing and we see a this very um small thing and we see a lot of companies that get to these you lot of companies that get to these you lot of companies that get to these you know hundreds of millions in revenue and know hundreds of millions in revenue and know hundreds of millions in revenue and they are like you know think about Moz they are like you know think about Moz they are like you know think about Moz which is like a kind of a suite of SEO which is like a kind of a suite of SEO which is like a kind of a suite of SEO tools I mean it does you know it has tools I mean it does you know it has tools I mean it does you know it has functionality similar like you have a functionality similar like you have a functionality similar like you have a you you're like a suite right now but you you're like a suite right now but you you're like a suite right now but you've broken those into separate you've broken those into separate you've broken those into separate products and or or it feels like products and or or it feels like products and or or it feels like separate products with separate separate products with separate separate products with separate subscriptions and I think in my opinion subscriptions and I think in my opinion subscriptions and I think in my opinion that that's um that's going to not treat that that's um that's going to not treat that that's um that's going to not treat you well in the long term I haven't seen you well in the long term I haven't seen you well in the long term I haven't seen anyone do this anyone do this anyone do this successfully okay this early so okay and successfully okay this early so okay and successfully okay this early so okay and so in your mind if I were to stack them so in your mind if I were to stack them so in your mind if I were to stack them as like a tiered like you have feature a as like a tiered like you have feature a as like a tiered like you have feature a no matter what you pay feature B cost no matter what you pay feature B cost no matter what you pay feature B cost you why more feature C but it's all just you why more feature C but it's all just you why more feature C but it's all just presented as the same tool that would be presented as the same tool that would be presented as the same tool that would be same app that be same app that be same app that be substantially yep that's what I would substantially yep that's what I would substantially yep that's what I would think about and I'm trying to I'm trying think about and I'm trying to I'm trying think about and I'm trying to I'm trying to think of an example like if HRS does to think of an example like if HRS does to think of an example like if HRS does this where this where this where yeah like if you go to ahs.com I mean yeah like if you go to ahs.com I mean yeah like if you go to ahs.com I mean they have a they have a site Explorer they have a they have a site Explorer they have a they have a site Explorer they have a keyword Explorer they have they have a keyword Explorer they have they have a keyword Explorer they have side audit they have rank tracker they side audit they have rank tracker they side audit they have rank tracker they have content explor those are their have content explor those are their have content explor those are their tools but they have those in just a tools but they have those in just a tools but they have those in just a tools menu on their homepage and it it

tools menu on their homepage and it it tools menu on their homepage and it it you know all goes down the side and I you know all goes down the side and I you know all goes down the side and I would have to look that's just in terms would have to look that's just in terms would have to look that's just in terms of the marketing in terms of the actual of the marketing in terms of the actual of the marketing in terms of the actual pricing let me see if they pricing let me see if they pricing let me see if they tier their pricing is tier their pricing is tier their pricing is actually yeah they have feature gating actually yeah they have feature gating actually yeah they have feature gating 99179 3.99 and then the agency plan is a 99179 3.99 and then the agency plan is a 99179 3.99 and then the agency plan is a th000 a month so they are doing more of th000 a month so they are doing more of th000 a month so they are doing more of what I'm saying but to your point what I'm saying but to your point what I'm saying but to your point earlier earlier earlier of I'm I'm trying to now think through of I'm I'm trying to now think through of I'm I'm trying to now think through we have these you have these three kind we have these you have these three kind we have these you have these three kind of tools or feature sets right you have of tools or feature sets right you have of tools or feature sets right you have automation for single sellers which that automation for single sellers which that automation for single sellers which that isn't for agencies correct yeah that's a isn't for agencies correct yeah that's a isn't for agencies correct yeah that's a future that's a future okay so for me future that's a future okay so for me future that's a future okay so for me that would be your base whether it's a that would be your base whether it's a that would be your base whether it's a that's your low cost plan right is like that's your low cost plan right is like that's your low cost plan right is like hey you're Rob Walling you're I'm hey you're Rob Walling you're I'm hey you're Rob Walling you're I'm running ads myself for start small stay running ads myself for start small stay running ads myself for start small stay small and I'm will I spend as much as I small and I'm will I spend as much as I small and I'm will I spend as much as I can and it's like hundreds of dollars a can and it's like hundreds of dollars a can and it's like hundreds of dollars a month it's not very much money because I month it's not very much money because I month it's not very much money because I the just the category itself doesn't the just the category itself doesn't the just the category itself doesn't spend that much so am I willing to pay spend that much so am I willing to pay spend that much so am I willing to pay $200 a month for a tool to help me with $200 a month for a tool to help me with $200 a month for a tool to help me with it no because I'm not spending that much it no because I'm not spending that much it no because I'm not spending that much but I'd be willing to pay 30 bucks 40 50 but I'd be willing to pay 30 bucks 40 50 but I'd be willing to pay 30 bucks 40 50 in that range right to help me and that in that range right to help me and that in that range right to help me and that I think could be your solo plan on your I think could be your solo plan on your I think could be your solo plan on your pricing plan and then the next one up pricing plan and then the next one up pricing plan and then the next one up you know is like the small micro agency you know is like the small micro agency you know is like the small micro agency the small agency plan and then there's the small agency plan and then there's the small agency plan and then there's the big agency plan right and these go the big agency plan right and these go the big agency plan right and these go to 200 bucks and 500 or 900 or whatever to 200 bucks and 500 or 900 or whatever to 200 bucks and 500 or 900 or whatever you decide on you know whatever you you decide on you know whatever you you decide on you know whatever you decide on the pricing um

decide on the pricing um decide on the pricing um I and I think from there so that's how I I and I think from there so that's how I I and I think from there so that's how I would think about it right and whether would think about it right and whether would think about it right and whether like tell me like tell me like tell me though because I get I get your your though because I get I get your your though because I get I get your your thinking of I don't want it to climb I thinking of I don't want it to climb I thinking of I don't want it to climb I wanted people to be able to add on as wanted people to be able to add on as wanted people to be able to add on as desired add a module add this module desired add a module add this module desired add a module add this module right so you could have but right so you could have but right so you could have but is and what I say what I'm saying is is and what I say what I'm saying is is and what I say what I'm saying is counter to that right I'm saying you do counter to that right I'm saying you do counter to that right I'm saying you do build in steps where like maybe you build in steps where like maybe you build in steps where like maybe you don't get the reports until the big don't get the reports until the big don't get the reports until the big agency right you get the PPC agency right you get the PPC agency right you get the PPC software uh on that middle tier but the software uh on that middle tier but the software uh on that middle tier but the the top tier is the only one with the top tier is the only one with the top tier is the only one with reports or something like that um what reports or something like that um what reports or something like that um what do you think about that do you think about that do you think about that uh I'm sort of as I'm sort of mentally uh I'm sort of as I'm sort of mentally uh I'm sort of as I'm sort of mentally doing the math on like what my current doing the math on like what my current doing the math on like what my current like monthly Revenue would be if I did a like monthly Revenue would be if I did a like monthly Revenue would be if I did a version of that and it would be lower version of that and it would be lower version of that and it would be lower right and so it's hard to it's hard to right and so it's hard to it's hard to right and so it's hard to it's hard to reconcile that like I know in theory reconcile that like I know in theory reconcile that like I know in theory that that advice is you know you when that that advice is you know you when that that advice is you know you when you say it's anti pattern 100% uh I you say it's anti pattern 100% uh I you say it's anti pattern 100% uh I think the the problem I have is that in think the the problem I have is that in think the the problem I have is that in a lot of the tiered platforms that I you a lot of the tiered platforms that I you a lot of the tiered platforms that I you know that I subscrib to there is a clear know that I subscrib to there is a clear know that I subscrib to there is a clear linear progression like you know the linear progression like you know the linear progression like you know the size of your business you definitely size of your business you definitely size of your business you definitely want thing be more the more you grow and want thing be more the more you grow and want thing be more the more you grow and things see right like you want if you things see right like you want if you things see right like you want if you got a family you probably want a a twoo got a family you probably want a a twoo got a family you probably want a a twoo car and then a three door car and then a car and then a three door car and then a car and then a three door car and then a minivan I don't know how many kids minivan I don't know how many kids minivan I don't know how many kids you're having right whereas these you're having right whereas these you're having right whereas these features they don't have a there's not a features they don't have a there's not a features they don't have a there's not a clear um there's not a clear sense of clear um there's not a clear sense of clear um there's not a clear sense of value across the potential clients like

value across the potential clients like value across the potential clients like some people you say hey we can do some people you say hey we can do some people you say hey we can do automation BL like I have no interest in automation BL like I have no interest in automation BL like I have no interest in that it's just a non-starter so to make that it's just a non-starter so to make that it's just a non-starter so to make that the second level tier is like well that the second level tier is like well that the second level tier is like well now uh there's they will have a level of now uh there's they will have a level of now uh there's they will have a level of dissatisfaction if they have to pay dissatisfaction if they have to pay dissatisfaction if they have to pay one tier past that to get the the one tier past that to get the the one tier past that to get the the monitoring or you know that sort of monitoring or you know that sort of monitoring or you know that sort of thing um it's just it's a harder I I thing um it's just it's a harder I I thing um it's just it's a harder I I hear your point I think that I could hear your point I think that I could hear your point I think that I could definitely do it better um it's definitely do it better um it's definitely do it better um it's just since there's not a clear you know just since there's not a clear you know just since there's not a clear you know equal sense of like valuation on the equal sense of like valuation on the equal sense of like valuation on the feature set in that Marketplace it would feature set in that Marketplace it would feature set in that Marketplace it would be hard for me to find a way to sequence be hard for me to find a way to sequence be hard for me to find a way to sequence the cheering in a way that would work um the cheering in a way that would work um the cheering in a way that would work um for everybody and I think what I'd end for everybody and I think what I'd end for everybody and I think what I'd end up with is people paying for things they up with is people paying for things they up with is people paying for things they don't want which is you know don't want which is you know don't want which is you know rough yes but that is that's sass right rough yes but that is that's sass right rough yes but that is that's sass right I mean like that's just the way it works I mean like that's just the way it works I mean like that's just the way it works like someone's always paying for I mean like someone's always paying for I mean like someone's always paying for I mean we had tear uh when I ran an email we had tear uh when I ran an email we had tear uh when I ran an email service provider called drip and up you service provider called drip and up you service provider called drip and up you know up to 2500 subscribers was $50 and know up to 2500 subscribers was $50 and know up to 2500 subscribers was $50 and up to 5,000 subscribers was $100 so when up to 5,000 subscribers was $100 so when up to 5,000 subscribers was $100 so when someone hit someone hit someone hit 251 they were paying $100 so they were 251 they were paying $100 so they were 251 they were paying $100 so they were paying for subscribers they weren't paying for subscribers they weren't paying for subscribers they weren't using in essence but that's SAS like using in essence but that's SAS like using in essence but that's SAS like that's just how this model Works um I that's just how this model Works um I that's just how this model Works um I would be careful not to try to over would be careful not to try to over would be careful not to try to over optimize I like what you're I like how optimize I like what you're I like how optimize I like what you're I like how you're thinking about it um but I think you're thinking about it um but I think you're thinking about it um but I think it's I think longer term it's just not it's I think longer term it's just not it's I think longer term it's just not going to matter and I think you need I I going to matter and I think you need I I going to matter and I think you need I I think in your shoes I would lean in think in your shoes I would lean in think in your shoes I would lean in towards trying to I think the

towards trying to I think the towards trying to I think the simplification of your platform and your simplification of your platform and your simplification of your platform and your pricing is worth more than trying to pricing is worth more than trying to pricing is worth more than trying to make sure no one's paying for um then make sure no one's paying for um then make sure no one's paying for um then you know trying to make sure no one's you know trying to make sure no one's you know trying to make sure no one's paying for any feature they aren't using paying for any feature they aren't using paying for any feature they aren't using because all of us are used to using because all of us are used to using because all of us are used to using feeds I'm sorry I'm reading Xander's feeds I'm sorry I'm reading Xander's feeds I'm sorry I'm reading Xander's audio feedus live thing but all of us audio feedus live thing but all of us audio feedus live thing but all of us are used to using sass apps where we are used to using sass apps where we are used to using sass apps where we just don't use some of the features I just don't use some of the features I just don't use some of the features I certainly am the other thing I want to certainly am the other thing I want to certainly am the other thing I want to say is I think you could I've never seen say is I think you could I've never seen say is I think you could I've never seen this done so it's unorthodox but what this done so it's unorthodox but what this done so it's unorthodox but what you could do is go back to where I had you could do is go back to where I had you could do is go back to where I had your um first second and third uh you your um first second and third uh you your um first second and third uh you have the solo plan micro agency and have the solo plan micro agency and have the solo plan micro agency and agency maybe you do the solo plan which agency maybe you do the solo plan which agency maybe you do the solo plan which is your you know your um well it's your is your you know your um well it's your is your you know your um well it's your solo tool then you have two middle tiers solo tool then you have two middle tiers solo tool then you have two middle tiers that that that are effectively close to the same price are effectively close to the same price are effectively close to the same price um or they use your existing pricing and um or they use your existing pricing and um or they use your existing pricing and it's one tier is only reports one tier it's one tier is only reports one tier it's one tier is only reports one tier is is the PPC software itself and then is is the PPC software itself and then is is the PPC software itself and then you have a fourth tier that is you have a fourth tier that is you have a fourth tier that is everything and that's the most expensive everything and that's the most expensive everything and that's the most expensive so if you if you really want to do again so if you if you really want to do again so if you if you really want to do again I haven't seen someone do that because I haven't seen someone do that because I haven't seen someone do that because then it's not a progression from left to then it's not a progression from left to then it's not a progression from left to right right right um it's kind of an add-on thing I I'd be um it's kind of an add-on thing I I'd be um it's kind of an add-on thing I I'd be interested I you know what I mean you interested I you know what I mean you interested I you know what I mean you could still have the price the same yeah could still have the price the same yeah could still have the price the same yeah yeah no that seems clearer and I think yeah no that seems clearer and I think yeah no that seems clearer and I think yeah I mean your point is 100% spot on I yeah I mean your point is 100% spot on I yeah I mean your point is 100% spot on I think there's a lack of clarity there is think there's a lack of clarity there is think there's a lack of clarity there is going to be a problem for potential for going to be a problem for potential for going to be a problem for potential for clients and also supporting three wholly

clients and also supporting three wholly clients and also supporting three wholly functional separate things would be functional separate things would be functional separate things would be funky in the future yeah no that's a funky in the future yeah no that's a funky in the future yeah no that's a great great note that's the thing and great great note that's the thing and great great note that's the thing and the the code is this a single code base the the code is this a single code base the the code is this a single code base though yes okay good because that makes though yes okay good because that makes though yes okay good because that makes it it it easier so I my gut feel is that longer easier so I my gut feel is that longer easier so I my gut feel is that longer term but I'm curious to hear your term but I'm curious to hear your term but I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this my gut is that longer thoughts on this my gut is that longer thoughts on this my gut is that longer term one or two of these will win term one or two of these will win term one or two of these will win out and out and out and that that that one or two one or two that that that one or two one or two that that that one or two one or two aspects of this product will become the aspects of this product will become the aspects of this product will become the need like that every the need that need like that every the need that need like that every the need that everything everybody's trying to fill everything everybody's trying to fill everything everybody's trying to fill and turn on that will be low you'll have and turn on that will be low you'll have and turn on that will be low you'll have a lot of pricing power ter of being able a lot of pricing power ter of being able a lot of pricing power ter of being able to charge more for it and it will just to charge more for it and it will just to charge more for it and it will just become the obvious leader um usually become the obvious leader um usually become the obvious leader um usually it's it's unusual for a company to have it's it's unusual for a company to have it's it's unusual for a company to have multiple products or multiple kind of multiple products or multiple kind of multiple products or multiple kind of main features like this and not have one main features like this and not have one main features like this and not have one of them be 70 or 80% of the revenue and of them be 70 or 80% of the revenue and of them be 70 or 80% of the revenue and thus really requiring you know should thus really requiring you know should thus really requiring you know should get 70 or 80% of the effort but right get 70 or 80% of the effort but right get 70 or 80% of the effort but right now I think you said of these two the now I think you said of these two the now I think you said of these two the reports and the the PPC software are reports and the the PPC software are reports and the the PPC software are they effectively they effectively they effectively even yeah well so so the reports are even yeah well so so the reports are even yeah well so so the reports are overwhelming or they're the largest overwhelming or they're the largest overwhelming or they're the largest Chunk on some level per client but this Chunk on some level per client but this Chunk on some level per client but this third feature which isn't even on the third feature which isn't even on the third feature which isn't even on the landing page yet um which I only landing page yet um which I only landing page yet um which I only recently sort of sort of selling to recently sort of sort of selling to recently sort of sort of selling to clients as they you know onboarded is clients as they you know onboarded is clients as they you know onboarded is now 50% of the revenue right so like two now 50% of the revenue right so like two now 50% of the revenue right so like two people have heard about it and my last people have heard about it and my last people have heard about it and my last client signed on it $1,300 a month client signed on it $1,300 a month client signed on it $1,300 a month because that feature which is you know

because that feature which is you know because that feature which is you know which is the monitoring essentially um which is the monitoring essentially um which is the monitoring essentially um was compelling enough for him um so by was compelling enough for him um so by was compelling enough for him um so by Revenue the third feature is you know Revenue the third feature is you know Revenue the third feature is you know 33% of the revenue if only 10% of the 33% of the revenue if only 10% of the 33% of the revenue if only 10% of the clients are using it if that makes sense clients are using it if that makes sense clients are using it if that makes sense yep yeah and revenue is you know is yep yeah and revenue is you know is yep yeah and revenue is you know is what's important in that respect so what's important in that respect so what's important in that respect so that's a that's a fourth item then that's a that's a fourth item then that's a that's a fourth item then that's the monitoring it's yes correct that's the monitoring it's yes correct that's the monitoring it's yes correct correct cool yeah and again if you go correct cool yeah and again if you go correct cool yeah and again if you go back to my the way I would I would back to my the way I would I would back to my the way I would I would approach it would be that monitoring approach it would be that monitoring approach it would be that monitoring would be the highest tier if people are would be the highest tier if people are would be the highest tier if people are paying 1300 bucks a month for it they paying 1300 bucks a month for it they paying 1300 bucks a month for it they should probably get everything else you should probably get everything else you should probably get everything else you know and it's a high tier that includes know and it's a high tier that includes know and it's a high tier that includes all the all the other stuff I'm trying all the all the other stuff I'm trying all the all the other stuff I'm trying to think of a model to think of a model to think of a model though because I'm trying to think of though because I'm trying to think of though because I'm trying to think of any examples who truly do at add-on the any examples who truly do at add-on the any examples who truly do at add-on the way you're talking about which is come way you're talking about which is come way you're talking about which is come in and just pick and choose and I I in and just pick and choose and I I in and just pick and choose and I I can't think of anyone who's done that can't think of anyone who's done that can't think of anyone who's done that can can you think of a sasap yeah the can can you think of a sasap yeah the can can you think of a sasap yeah the one that I actually saw from it's it's one that I actually saw from it's it's one that I actually saw from it's it's an app I use I consume one of their apis an app I use I consume one of their apis an app I use I consume one of their apis they're not a huge app they have um I they're not a huge app they have um I they're not a huge app they have um I think it's called HTML to PDF so can you think it's called HTML to PDF so can you think it's called HTML to PDF so can you know they have got like two or three know they have got like two or three know they have got like two or three different apis you can subscribe to and different apis you can subscribe to and different apis you can subscribe to and you pay differently uh for whichever app you pay differently uh for whichever app you pay differently uh for whichever app you're whichever one you're subscribed you're whichever one you're subscribed you're whichever one you're subscribed to essentially and it was using their to essentially and it was using their to essentially and it was using their web page I was like oh that's a good way web page I was like oh that's a good way web page I was like oh that's a good way to like bring the price down essentially to like bring the price down essentially to like bring the price down essentially and give people what they need and and give people what they need and and give people what they need and that's who I'm that's who I'm that's who I'm [Music] [Music] [Music] mirroring and I'm trying to look for mirroring and I'm trying to look for mirroring and I'm trying to look for them but of course it's impossible to them but of course it's impossible to them but of course it's impossible to find yeah yeah I would be careful to I

find yeah yeah I would be careful to I find yeah yeah I would be careful to I would be careful copying someone like would be careful copying someone like would be careful copying someone like that um who is not uh I guess I'll say that um who is not uh I guess I'll say that um who is not uh I guess I'll say the design patterns of doing these the design patterns of doing these the design patterns of doing these things is is pretty well trodden and um things is is pretty well trodden and um things is is pretty well trodden and um the fact that we can't think of anyone the fact that we can't think of anyone the fact that we can't think of anyone else except for HDML the PDF is is is else except for HDML the PDF is is is else except for HDML the PDF is is is risky it's not the name of it what's the risky it's not the name of it what's the risky it's not the name of it what's the name of this API I'll have you find it name of this API I'll have you find it name of this API I'll have you find it in a second but yeah yeah yeah no yeah I in a second but yeah yeah yeah no yeah I in a second but yeah yeah yeah no yeah I and you know Xander will tell you I've and you know Xander will tell you I've and you know Xander will tell you I've made every mistake uh in the process of made every mistake uh in the process of made every mistake uh in the process of building this so we all do building this so we all do building this so we all do man you're not supposed to be doing this man you're not supposed to be doing this man you're not supposed to be doing this perfect I mean she still making big perfect I mean she still making big perfect I mean she still making big mistakes these days yeah so okay I I mistakes these days yeah so okay I I mistakes these days yeah so okay I I mean I like what you got here and the mean I like what you got here and the mean I like what you got here and the fact that people are willing to pay fact that people are willing to pay fact that people are willing to pay you know I see your like lowest price is you know I see your like lowest price is you know I see your like lowest price is like 99 a month and then 1,300 a month I like 99 a month and then 1,300 a month I like 99 a month and then 1,300 a month I mean you're you've obviously tapped into mean you're you've obviously tapped into mean you're you've obviously tapped into something that is of real value I think something that is of real value I think something that is of real value I think as you start to Market this because as you start to Market this because as you start to Market this because onboarding is a big deal and I agree you onboarding is a big deal and I agree you onboarding is a big deal and I agree you should dig in get that fixed so that you should dig in get that fixed so that you should dig in get that fixed so that you can you don't want it to be a problem can you don't want it to be a problem can you don't want it to be a problem when new customers you know want to when new customers you know want to when new customers you know want to start a trial or want to hang out start a trial or want to hang out start a trial or want to hang out um and um and um and then I think you've built something then I think you've built something then I think you've built something really interesting already and you've really interesting already and you've really interesting already and you've built something that people want built something that people want built something that people want already I would encourage you to stop already I would encourage you to stop already I would encourage you to stop building and start marketing and selling building and start marketing and selling building and start marketing and selling yeah you know what I mean unless you yeah you know what I mean unless you yeah you know what I mean unless you really really really unless it's like you you are if you have unless it's like you you are if you have unless it's like you you are if you have people not churning and using this um people not churning and using this um people not churning and using this um because you're a developer because you're a developer because you're a developer right yeah and and to us every every right yeah and and to us every every right yeah and and to us every every nail is a is a CO is a piece of code

nail is a is a CO is a piece of code nail is a is a CO is a piece of code right we can fix everything with code um right we can fix everything with code um right we can fix everything with code um do you feel like resistant you know a do you feel like resistant you know a do you feel like resistant you know a lot of developers I talked developer too lot of developers I talked developer too lot of developers I talked developer too right I haven't written production code right I haven't written production code right I haven't written production code in like eight years but I still think in like eight years but I still think in like eight years but I still think everything should be solved by building everything should be solved by building everything should be solved by building features and it's just not the it's not features and it's just not the it's not features and it's just not the it's not the right way to do it do you feel the right way to do it do you feel the right way to do it do you feel resistant to wanting to Market and resistant to wanting to Market and resistant to wanting to Market and spread the word and like putting putting spread the word and like putting putting spread the word and like putting putting you know hanging up your coding boots you know hanging up your coding boots you know hanging up your coding boots for a month at a time I did before for a month at a time I did before for a month at a time I did before before the first person started paying before the first person started paying before the first person started paying essentially and I think the initial sort essentially and I think the initial sort essentially and I think the initial sort of like when and I you know when people of like when and I you know when people of like when and I you know when people started using the the the L word like I started using the the the L word like I started using the the the L word like I love this like it was like oh the love this like it was like oh the love this like it was like oh the validation that comes from that became validation that comes from that became validation that comes from that became sort of intoxic for lack of a better sort of intoxic for lack of a better sort of intoxic for lack of a better word um and so now there is a part of me word um and so now there is a part of me word um and so now there is a part of me that you know it's like oh hearing that you know it's like oh hearing that you know it's like oh hearing people love what you've toiled over for people love what you've toiled over for people love what you've toiled over for months and months um it makes it easier months and months um it makes it easier months and months um it makes it easier but before that first kind of like pivot but before that first kind of like pivot but before that first kind of like pivot point of like going from an idea to a point of like going from an idea to a point of like going from an idea to a real business I was definitely resistant real business I was definitely resistant real business I was definitely resistant there still I still have a hint of there still I still have a hint of there still I still have a hint of resistance because it's not as you know resistance because it's not as you know resistance because it's not as you know the nail metaphor like it's as a the nail metaphor like it's as a the nail metaphor like it's as a developer when something's broken you developer when something's broken you developer when something's broken you know exactly what to do more or less know exactly what to do more or less know exactly what to do more or less you're like okay this is what I need to you're like okay this is what I need to you're like okay this is what I need to do to execute this marketing still has a do to execute this marketing still has a do to execute this marketing still has a little bit of a I don't know um if a little bit of a I don't know um if a little bit of a I don't know um if a clear yeah and so the ambiguity clear yeah and so the ambiguity clear yeah and so the ambiguity surrounding that makes it less appealing surrounding that makes it less appealing surrounding that makes it less appealing but yep um making money makes it more but yep um making money makes it more but yep um making money makes it more feeling that's I was gonna say it'll feeling that's I was gonna say it'll feeling that's I was gonna say it'll always I mean it's always experiments always I mean it's always experiments always I mean it's always experiments right I mean we have we have companies right I mean we have we have companies right I mean we have we have companies coming into Tiny Seed doing the range is coming into Tiny Seed doing the range is coming into Tiny Seed doing the range is big but let's say 15 20 30,000 a month big but let's say 15 20 30,000 a month big but let's say 15 20 30,000 a month who are still like I kind of have one

who are still like I kind of have one who are still like I kind of have one marketing approach that's kind of marketing approach that's kind of marketing approach that's kind of working and things are starting to work working and things are starting to work working and things are starting to work you know so I mean it's and as you get you know so I mean it's and as you get you know so I mean it's and as you get bigger and try to discover new that that bigger and try to discover new that that bigger and try to discover new that that second approach and that third approach second approach and that third approach second approach and that third approach then build those flywheels it there's then build those flywheels it there's then build those flywheels it there's always that ambiguity so I would I would always that ambiguity so I would I would always that ambiguity so I would I would really really encourage you um you know really really encourage you um you know really really encourage you um you know first you have to build something people first you have to build something people first you have to build something people want and that solves a problem and that want and that solves a problem and that want and that solves a problem and that they're willing to pay for and that is they're willing to pay for and that is they're willing to pay for and that is so hard and as you know you've been so hard and as you know you've been so hard and as you know you've been trying to do it for years it sounds like trying to do it for years it sounds like trying to do it for years it sounds like and you've seems like seems to me based and you've seems like seems to me based and you've seems like seems to me based on what I'm hearing with zero turn and on what I'm hearing with zero turn and on what I'm hearing with zero turn and people paying 100 to 1300 a month and at people paying 100 to 1300 a month and at people paying 100 to 1300 a month and at 3K Mr R you know after I guess it's 90 3K Mr R you know after I guess it's 90 3K Mr R you know after I guess it's 90 days March April mid June yeah you've days March April mid June yeah you've days March April mid June yeah you've been live about three been live about three been live about three months that's really an interesting months that's really an interesting months that's really an interesting April March March 31st so April I just April March March 31st so April I just April March March 31st so April I just don't like saying April 1 because it don't like saying April 1 because it don't like saying April 1 because it feels spooky to say like I feels spooky to say like I feels spooky to say like I like but I mean that I would be looking like but I mean that I would be looking like but I mean that I would be looking at how can I get you know once at how can I get you know once at how can I get you know once onboarding is fixed right how can I get onboarding is fixed right how can I get onboarding is fixed right how can I get more people through the door and that's more people through the door and that's more people through the door and that's going to be marketing and sales but you going to be marketing and sales but you going to be marketing and sales but you built a great you've gotten to the point built a great you've gotten to the point built a great you've gotten to the point where um it's pretty hard to get to where um it's pretty hard to get to where um it's pretty hard to get to right I have no idea I have no frame of right I have no idea I have no frame of right I have no idea I have no frame of reference so like I don't know if I reference so like I don't know if I reference so like I don't know if I should be like pumping my fist or like should be like pumping my fist or like should be like pumping my fist or like slitting my wrist I don't know where I'm slitting my wrist I don't know where I'm slitting my wrist I don't know where I'm at on that scale I feel like with if at on that scale I feel like with if at on that scale I feel like with if churn is that low and people are saying churn is that low and people are saying churn is that low and people are saying they love it that is unusual uh this they love it that is unusual uh this they love it that is unusual uh this early usually people come in and say oh early usually people come in and say oh early usually people come in and say oh I should did more well I see I can kind I should did more well I see I can kind I should did more well I see I can kind of use this other tool for that why of use this other tool for that why of use this other tool for that why would I pay this much for this um would I pay this much for this um would I pay this much for this um because I can hack male chimp and because I can hack male chimp and because I can hack male chimp and zappier to I mean that's usually what

zappier to I mean that's usually what zappier to I mean that's usually what happens and you get a small trickle who happens and you get a small trickle who happens and you get a small trickle who stick around until you hit that point stick around until you hit that point stick around until you hit that point where people say holy crap this is where people say holy crap this is where people say holy crap this is really cool and it sounds like you may really cool and it sounds like you may really cool and it sounds like you may have stumbled upon the holy crap really have stumbled upon the holy crap really have stumbled upon the holy crap really cool a lot earlier than than cool a lot earlier than than cool a lot earlier than than most yeah yeah no that's I mean early if most yeah yeah no that's I mean early if most yeah yeah no that's I mean early if you started from 2021 you started from 2021 you started from 2021 later it just depends five years to later it just depends five years to later it just depends five years to overnight success yeah exactly yeah overnight success yeah exactly yeah overnight success yeah exactly yeah exactly exactly awesome well Phil thank exactly exactly awesome well Phil thank exactly exactly awesome well Phil thank we're at time thank you so much for we're at time thank you so much for we're at time thank you so much for joining I want to I have to say I have joining I want to I have to say I have joining I want to I have to say I have to say something uh it's actually super to say something uh it's actually super to say something uh it's actually super important to me I wanted to say at the important to me I wanted to say at the important to me I wanted to say at the top so I have to thank you I don't know top so I have to thank you I don't know top so I have to thank you I don't know if you're aware of this um if you go to if you're aware of this um if you go to if you're aware of this um if you go to YouTube and type in interviews with SAS YouTube and type in interviews with SAS YouTube and type in interviews with SAS Founders or SAS talks or whatever the Founders or SAS talks or whatever the Founders or SAS talks or whatever the number of pages you have to scroll down number of pages you have to scroll down number of pages you have to scroll down to see a black person or a woman or any to see a black person or a woman or any to see a black person or a woman or any of the kind of historically excluded or of the kind of historically excluded or of the kind of historically excluded or underrepresented however you want to underrepresented however you want to underrepresented however you want to phrase it groups you have to go page and phrase it groups you have to go page and phrase it groups you have to go page and page and page and page you have spoken page and page and page you have spoken page and page and page you have spoken to a number of people that fall into to a number of people that fall into to a number of people that fall into that category right and it is so that category right and it is so that category right and it is so refreshing and it is like so nice refreshing and it is like so nice refreshing and it is like so nice because as a person who is like if I get because as a person who is like if I get because as a person who is like if I get asked a question by a person on the asked a question by a person on the asked a question by a person on the street it is not about my onboarding street it is not about my onboarding street it is not about my onboarding strategy it is like do you know where I strategy it is like do you know where I strategy it is like do you know where I can get some weed and maybe I do but can get some weed and maybe I do but can get some weed and maybe I do but that's not the question I want to be that's not the question I want to be that's not the question I want to be known for right you are breaking like known for right you are breaking like known for right you are breaking like you are you are you're like the NAACP of you are you are you're like the NAACP of you are you are you're like the NAACP of SAS interviews it is so refreshing and SAS interviews it is so refreshing and SAS interviews it is so refreshing and you are doing like good work in that you are doing like good work in that you are doing like good work in that space whether or not you're consciously space whether or not you're consciously space whether or not you're consciously aware of it you are absolutely doing it aware of it you are absolutely doing it aware of it you are absolutely doing it so like if nothing else I want to thank so like if nothing else I want to thank so like if nothing else I want to thank you personally for that it was a you

you personally for that it was a you you personally for that it was a you know you had courland on you had John on know you had courland on you had John on know you had courland on you had John on you had you know you had asan you had me you had you know you had asan you had me you had you know you had asan you had me it's you know it's it's really nice so it's you know it's it's really nice so it's you know it's it's really nice so thank you really appreciate that it is thank you really appreciate that it is thank you really appreciate that it is um definitely a team effort producer um definitely a team effort producer um definitely a team effort producer Xander is heavily involved and we have Xander is heavily involved and we have Xander is heavily involved and we have been for about a decade uh well I guess been for about a decade uh well I guess been for about a decade uh well I guess it was 2012 yeah when we realized wait it was 2012 yeah when we realized wait it was 2012 yeah when we realized wait why is everybody in the room uh why are why is everybody in the room uh why are why is everybody in the room uh why are there no people of color why are there there no people of color why are there there no people of color why are there no women you know our first microcom 100 no women you know our first microcom 100 no women you know our first microcom 100 people there were three women we're like people there were three women we're like people there were three women we're like this is a problem so it it is deliberate this is a problem so it it is deliberate this is a problem so it it is deliberate uh the focus of trying to do it we made uh the focus of trying to do it we made uh the focus of trying to do it we made progress we're certainly not where we progress we're certainly not where we progress we're certainly not where we want to want to be yet but um I really want to want to be yet but um I really want to want to be yet but um I really appreciate you bringing that up because appreciate you bringing that up because appreciate you bringing that up because it's absolutely something that we spend it's absolutely something that we spend it's absolutely something that we spend a lot of time thinking about yeah I'm a lot of time thinking about yeah I'm a lot of time thinking about yeah I'm happy to because it's it'd be a hard happy to because it's it'd be a hard happy to because it's it'd be a hard thing for you to like bring up right thing for you to like bring up right thing for you to like bring up right like hey guys I don't know if you know like hey guys I don't know if you know like hey guys I don't know if you know this but we he microv like you can't do this but we he microv like you can't do this but we he microv like you can't do that so I'm happy to do that for you so that so I'm happy to do that for you so that so I'm happy to do that for you so awesome thank you yeah that's great and awesome thank you yeah that's great and awesome thank you yeah that's great and thank you sir so you are Phil McCarthy thank you sir so you are Phil McCarthy thank you sir so you are Phil McCarthy on Twitter I'm Rob Walling thanks on Twitter I'm Rob Walling thanks on Twitter I'm Rob Walling thanks everybody for joining us today and I'll everybody for joining us today and I'll everybody for joining us today and I'll see you again in a couple see you again in a couple see you again in a couple weeks mus weeks mus weeks mus rocket we thank you as rocket we thank you as rocket we thank you as always always always right andri on Twitter if you haven't right andri on Twitter if you haven't right andri on Twitter if you haven't already head to youtube.com Microsoft already head to youtube.com Microsoft already head to youtube.com Microsoft hit the like subcribe button and get hit the like subcribe button and get hit the like subcribe button and get notified about our future live notified about our future live notified about our future live videos next time in just two weeks we videos next time in just two weeks we videos next time in just two weeks we have another guest on the show I don't have another guest on the show I don't have another guest on the show I don't think we have anyone booked yet so uh think we have anyone booked yet so uh think we have anyone booked yet so uh thanks again to handstrip and thank you

thanks again to handstrip and thank you thanks again to handstrip and thank you for joining us for joining us for joining us [Music]