The Value of Mentorship for SaaS Founders with John Knox

calling calling all sas heroes we've got the cheat code all sas heroes we've got the cheat code all sas heroes we've got the cheat code for early stage sas founders for early stage sas founders for early stage sas founders to help you find your first customers to help you find your first customers to help you find your first customers we'll be focusing on four unique we'll be focusing on four unique we'll be focusing on four unique strategies and giving you the tools you strategies and giving you the tools you strategies and giving you the tools you need need need to have a successful launch and spark to have a successful launch and spark to have a successful launch and spark early growth early growth early growth if you have less than 500 customers if you have less than 500 customers if you have less than 500 customers you'll want to power on and level up you'll want to power on and level up you'll want to power on and level up your sas your sas your sas join us march 23rd through the 25th from join us march 23rd through the 25th from join us march 23rd through the 25th from 11 a.m 11 a.m 11 a.m to 12 30 p.m eastern time each day to 12 30 p.m eastern time each day to 12 30 p.m eastern time each day explore the world map of microconf explore the world map of microconf explore the world map of microconf remote visit the power-up lounge remote visit the power-up lounge remote visit the power-up lounge and explore the community of vendors who and explore the community of vendors who and explore the community of vendors who will help you beat will help you beat will help you beat the final boss register the final boss register the final boss register at microconf remote dot com and we are live welcome to this week's and we are live welcome to this week's episode of microconfig air with the episode of microconfig air with the episode of microconfig air with the eerie theme music i dig it eerie theme music i dig it eerie theme music i dig it producer xander doing the 8-bit producer xander doing the 8-bit producer xander doing the 8-bit kind of minor theme i'm trying to kind of minor theme i'm trying to kind of minor theme i'm trying to there's the one game where you were in there's the one game where you were in there's the one game where you were in the graveyard on the nes the graveyard on the nes the graveyard on the nes it's that's groovin man welcome to it's that's groovin man welcome to it's that's groovin man welcome to today's episode of microconf on air i'm today's episode of microconf on air i'm today's episode of microconf on air i'm your host rob walling your host rob walling your host rob walling every other wednesday at 1 p.m eastern

every other wednesday at 1 p.m eastern every other wednesday at 1 p.m eastern 10 a.m pacific we live stream for 30 10 a.m pacific we live stream for 30 10 a.m pacific we live stream for 30 minutes minutes minutes to this awesome theme music and we cover to this awesome theme music and we cover to this awesome theme music and we cover topics related to building and growing topics related to building and growing topics related to building and growing ambitious sas startups ambitious sas startups ambitious sas startups to bring us freedom and purpose and to bring us freedom and purpose and to bring us freedom and purpose and allow us to value and maintain healthy allow us to value and maintain healthy allow us to value and maintain healthy relationships relationships relationships we focus on relentless execution with a we focus on relentless execution with a we focus on relentless execution with a long-term mindset long-term mindset long-term mindset we think in terms of years not months we think in terms of years not months we think in terms of years not months and as such we don't burn ourselves out and as such we don't burn ourselves out and as such we don't burn ourselves out by working crazy hours sacrificing our by working crazy hours sacrificing our by working crazy hours sacrificing our health or health or health or our relationships thanks so much for our relationships thanks so much for our relationships thanks so much for joining me this week we're covering a joining me this week we're covering a joining me this week we're covering a topic that is near and dear to my heart topic that is near and dear to my heart topic that is near and dear to my heart it is mentorship it is mentorship it is mentorship for founders and specifically mentorship for founders and specifically mentorship for founders and specifically mentorship for sas founders this is something that for sas founders this is something that for sas founders this is something that i think i think i think you know 16 years ago i think back to you know 16 years ago i think back to you know 16 years ago i think back to 2005 when i started my blog 2005 when i started my blog 2005 when i started my blog i would have been a little skeptical of i would have been a little skeptical of i would have been a little skeptical of it because it because it because when i would read magazines or listen to when i would read magazines or listen to when i would read magazines or listen to interviews or read books interviews or read books interviews or read books the mentorship was always this grandiose the mentorship was always this grandiose the mentorship was always this grandiose um silicon v silicon valley i mean i um silicon v silicon valley i mean i um silicon v silicon valley i mean i grew up in the east bay grew up in the east bay grew up in the east bay of the bay area so i hate to you know of the bay area so i hate to you know of the bay area so i hate to you know paint all the brush but it was the paint all the brush but it was the paint all the brush but it was the venture scale venture scale venture scale you need a mentor because you're going you need a mentor because you're going you need a mentor because you're going to build a billion dollar company and to build a billion dollar company and to build a billion dollar company and it's hard and i always felt like it's hard and i always felt like it's hard and i always felt like i feel like i can build just a great i feel like i can build just a great i feel like i can build just a great million 10 20 million dollar company and million 10 20 million dollar company and million 10 20 million dollar company and i don't need i don't need i don't need advice i'm just going to do it on my own advice i'm just going to do it on my own advice i'm just going to do it on my own and a big part of that and a big part of that and a big part of that was because there was no one else around was because there was no one else around was because there was no one else around doing what i wanted to do which was to doing what i wanted to do which was to doing what i wanted to do which was to build these build these build these this you know ambitious startup that this you know ambitious startup that this you know ambitious startup that didn't necessarily try to shoot didn't necessarily try to shoot didn't necessarily try to shoot for unicorn or bust and what i for unicorn or bust and what i for unicorn or bust and what i eventually realized is that there are eventually realized is that there are eventually realized is that there are folks out there folks out there folks out there who are are just enough ahead of you who are are just enough ahead of you who are are just enough ahead of you they can be six months they can be a they can be six months they can be a they can be six months they can be a year they can be five years they maybe year they can be five years they maybe year they can be five years they maybe they've just seen they've just seen they've just seen 20 or 30 sas companies start and grow

20 or 30 sas companies start and grow 20 or 30 sas companies start and grow and so mentorship is something that i and so mentorship is something that i and so mentorship is something that i have since become a firm believer in as have since become a firm believer in as have since become a firm believer in as you can tell by you can tell by you can tell by you know microconf just connecting folks you know microconf just connecting folks you know microconf just connecting folks one another to have those those one another to have those those one another to have those those interactions mastermind groups are a interactions mastermind groups are a interactions mastermind groups are a form of mentorship form of mentorship form of mentorship if you think about it uh the podcast if you think about it uh the podcast if you think about it uh the podcast microconf on air is a form of maybe it's microconf on air is a form of maybe it's microconf on air is a form of maybe it's not direct one-on-one mentorship but not direct one-on-one mentorship but not direct one-on-one mentorship but it's definitely it's definitely it's definitely sharing lessons learned to you know to a sharing lessons learned to you know to a sharing lessons learned to you know to a lot of folks at once lot of folks at once lot of folks at once and today's guest is john knox he's at and today's guest is john knox he's at and today's guest is john knox he's at wind wind wind addict on twitter and john knox addict on twitter and john knox addict on twitter and john knox is a sas angel investor he's been in the is a sas angel investor he's been in the is a sas angel investor he's been in the micro conf and the sas micro conf and the sas micro conf and the sas circles for many years he's an investor circles for many years he's an investor circles for many years he's an investor in in in the tiny seed funds one and two he's an the tiny seed funds one and two he's an the tiny seed funds one and two he's an active member of our slack channel and active member of our slack channel and active member of our slack channel and he chimes in and helps a lot of our our he chimes in and helps a lot of our our he chimes in and helps a lot of our our portfolio companies portfolio companies portfolio companies he's an investor in one second every day he's an investor in one second every day he's an investor in one second every day in peterson's branch that is now turning in peterson's branch that is now turning in peterson's branch that is now turning into into into uh reform he is investor matt winsting's uh reform he is investor matt winsting's uh reform he is investor matt winsting's summit summit summit david heller's reimbi app and he is a david heller's reimbi app and he is a david heller's reimbi app and he is a avid windsurfer avid windsurfer avid windsurfer he's also working on a book called he's also working on a book called he's also working on a book called wealth for founders you can find that at wealth for founders you can find that at wealth for founders you can find that at wealthforfounders.com because wealthforfounders.com because wealthforfounders.com because like me he is a personal finance and like me he is a personal finance and like me he is a personal finance and investing nerd and he and i have investing nerd and he and i have investing nerd and he and i have shared many a great conversation over shared many a great conversation over shared many a great conversation over talking about talking about talking about high-yield vanguard mutual funds high-yield vanguard mutual funds high-yield vanguard mutual funds during the day he's a medical device ios during the day he's a medical device ios during the day he's a medical device ios developer so a man he's a renaissance developer so a man he's a renaissance developer so a man he's a renaissance man a man of many man a man of many man a man of many many talents and many experiences i'm many talents and many experiences i'm many talents and many experiences i'm gonna dive into gonna dive into gonna dive into mentorship with john as i welcome him to

mentorship with john as i welcome him to mentorship with john as i welcome him to the show if you have any questions the show if you have any questions the show if you have any questions for john or myself around personal for john or myself around personal for john or myself around personal finance building wealth finance building wealth finance building wealth uh mentorship you know ios development uh mentorship you know ios development uh mentorship you know ios development frankly anything else that you'd love to frankly anything else that you'd love to frankly anything else that you'd love to hear john talk about please hear john talk about please hear john talk about please post them in the microkuff on-air post them in the microkuff on-air post them in the microkuff on-air channel at microconf connect channel at microconf connect channel at microconf connect and we will get right to them mr knox and we will get right to them mr knox and we will get right to them mr knox thank you so much for joining me on thank you so much for joining me on thank you so much for joining me on microconfig on air today microconfig on air today microconfig on air today hi rob thanks great to have you man hi rob thanks great to have you man hi rob thanks great to have you man you're coming to us from you're coming to us from you're coming to us from sunny yet cold just north of minneapolis sunny yet cold just north of minneapolis sunny yet cold just north of minneapolis minnesota am i right minnesota am i right minnesota am i right that's right it's a little overcast but that's right it's a little overcast but that's right it's a little overcast but uh uh uh i think it'll be better soon that's i think it'll be better soon that's i think it'll be better soon that's great and i'll be back so i'm in great and i'll be back so i'm in great and i'll be back so i'm in california for about another california for about another california for about another i don't even know 10 days 11 days and i don't even know 10 days 11 days and i don't even know 10 days 11 days and then i'm heading back so i'll be joining then i'm heading back so i'll be joining then i'm heading back so i'll be joining you then you then you then they're in early april hopefully as the they're in early april hopefully as the they're in early april hopefully as the veil of covid lifts we will veil of covid lifts we will veil of covid lifts we will be able to once again resume remember we be able to once again resume remember we be able to once again resume remember we used to do happy hours sean we would used to do happy hours sean we would used to do happy hours sean we would hang out and talk about things like in hang out and talk about things like in hang out and talk about things like in person person person it seems like a dream at this point it it seems like a dream at this point it it seems like a dream at this point it really does it's the before time really does it's the before time really does it's the before time so i wanna i wanna dive in john to this so i wanna i wanna dive in john to this so i wanna i wanna dive in john to this topic mentorship for sas founders topic mentorship for sas founders topic mentorship for sas founders you know when we asked you to come on you know when we asked you to come on you know when we asked you to come on the show we know you have a variety of the show we know you have a variety of the show we know you have a variety of experiences you could have chosen to experiences you could have chosen to experiences you could have chosen to really to talk about any of them really to talk about any of them really to talk about any of them why why choose mentorship for sas why why choose mentorship for sas why why choose mentorship for sas founders and why is that important to founders and why is that important to founders and why is that important to you personally yeah i think mentorship is yeah i think mentorship is both underrated and overrated um i think both underrated and overrated um i think both underrated and overrated um i think some people think of mentorship they some people think of mentorship they some people think of mentorship they imagine that it's you know imagine that it's you know imagine that it's you know somebody's gonna tell you how to do somebody's gonna tell you how to do somebody's gonna tell you how to do everything and it's magic and you don't everything and it's magic and you don't everything and it's magic and you don't actually have to do any work

actually have to do any work actually have to do any work and i don't think that's really true but and i don't think that's really true but and i don't think that's really true but on the other hand on the other hand on the other hand uh you can basically uh uh you can basically uh uh you can basically uh become aware of things you wouldn't become aware of things you wouldn't become aware of things you wouldn't otherwise become aware of through otherwise become aware of through otherwise become aware of through mentorship mentorship mentorship right if uh you have a problem with right if uh you have a problem with right if uh you have a problem with you know ios have a lot of experience in you know ios have a lot of experience in you know ios have a lot of experience in ios and there's a good chance that ios and there's a good chance that ios and there's a good chance that i can help you at least uh find out you i can help you at least uh find out you i can help you at least uh find out you know where where to look deeper where to know where where to look deeper where to know where where to look deeper where to dig deeper dig deeper dig deeper in whatever problem you're having um in whatever problem you're having um in whatever problem you're having um same thing for same thing for same thing for personal finance or whatever like maybe personal finance or whatever like maybe personal finance or whatever like maybe um you know help for me might just be um you know help for me might just be um you know help for me might just be a comment in slack or it could be a 30 a comment in slack or it could be a 30 a comment in slack or it could be a 30 minute phone call minute phone call minute phone call and maybe me just finding the right and maybe me just finding the right and maybe me just finding the right person for you to talk to person for you to talk to person for you to talk to so it can be pretty easy on my side but so it can be pretty easy on my side but so it can be pretty easy on my side but pretty maybe valuable for the other side pretty maybe valuable for the other side pretty maybe valuable for the other side if it ends up working out if it ends up working out if it ends up working out doesn't always work out but it can doesn't always work out but it can doesn't always work out but it can really unlock a lot of value quickly really unlock a lot of value quickly really unlock a lot of value quickly for you know for you know for you know but actually both sides because i end up but actually both sides because i end up but actually both sides because i end up learning quite a lot from it as well so learning quite a lot from it as well so learning quite a lot from it as well so that's kind of good yeah i think the key that's kind of good yeah i think the key that's kind of good yeah i think the key piece you know the one piece you know the one piece you know the one phrase you said was unlock a lot of phrase you said was unlock a lot of phrase you said was unlock a lot of value quickly value quickly value quickly and something that that i could have and something that that i could have and something that that i could have come to realize was over the last over come to realize was over the last over come to realize was over the last over the last maybe 11 years total but the last maybe 11 years total but the last maybe 11 years total but really it was only maybe four or five really it was only maybe four or five really it was only maybe four or five years was a point that click years was a point that click years was a point that click it clicked with me where it's like wait it clicked with me where it's like wait it clicked with me where it's like wait a minute me actually a minute me actually a minute me actually um introducing a founder to someone who um introducing a founder to someone who um introducing a founder to someone who either winds up investing in them or either winds up investing in them or either winds up investing in them or winds up winds up winds up uh becoming a business development uh becoming a business development uh becoming a business development relationship relationship relationship winds up doing an integration winds up

winds up doing an integration winds up winds up doing an integration winds up working for them just an working for them just an working for them just an intro can often be worth you know intro can often be worth you know intro can often be worth you know hundreds of hours of work right because hundreds of hours of work right because hundreds of hours of work right because if you post your indeed if you post your indeed if you post your indeed job description and you promote that and job description and you promote that and job description and you promote that and you go through all the resumes and you you go through all the resumes and you you go through all the resumes and you get to this candidate in the end i mean get to this candidate in the end i mean get to this candidate in the end i mean that can literally be thousands of that can literally be thousands of that can literally be thousands of dollars hundreds of hours dollars hundreds of hours dollars hundreds of hours versus if i know a candidate and i know versus if i know a candidate and i know versus if i know a candidate and i know you're they're a perfect fit for you you're they're a perfect fit for you you're they're a perfect fit for you and they decide that they want to come and they decide that they want to come and they decide that they want to come work for you that intro can be work for you that intro can be work for you that intro can be incredibly time saving um just like you incredibly time saving um just like you incredibly time saving um just like you you know you know you know similar to what you're saying with with similar to what you're saying with with similar to what you're saying with with ios development if there's a technical ios development if there's a technical ios development if there's a technical thing that you thing that you thing that you have learned that someone else hasn't have learned that someone else hasn't have learned that someone else hasn't it's shortcuts right it's it's shortcuts right it's it's shortcuts right it's it's cheat i had to use the phrase cheat it's cheat i had to use the phrase cheat it's cheat i had to use the phrase cheat codes um because uh we're using it for codes um because uh we're using it for codes um because uh we're using it for microconf remote next year next week so microconf remote next year next week so microconf remote next year next week so i'm stealing it from producer xander a i'm stealing it from producer xander a i'm stealing it from producer xander a little bit but little bit but little bit but it really is like you said it doesn't it really is like you said it doesn't it really is like you said it doesn't work in every case work in every case work in every case right there's not cheat codes for right there's not cheat codes for right there's not cheat codes for everything but when it works it it is everything but when it works it it is everything but when it works it it is uh amazing do you have a recent uh amazing do you have a recent uh amazing do you have a recent story or example of some advice that you story or example of some advice that you story or example of some advice that you gave a founder in the past few months gave a founder in the past few months gave a founder in the past few months where you feel like you really unlock where you feel like you really unlock where you feel like you really unlock something for them in a in a short something for them in a in a short something for them in a in a short amount of time amount of time amount of time uh yeah i won't go into too many details uh yeah i won't go into too many details uh yeah i won't go into too many details but but but uh basically someone was having an issue uh basically someone was having an issue uh basically someone was having an issue with a with a with a popular cloud provider and popular cloud provider and popular cloud provider and i did a little research and i looked at i did a little research and i looked at i did a little research and i looked at my linkedin and i realized that my linkedin and i realized that my linkedin and i realized that i met someone i'm pretty sure at a i met someone i'm pretty sure at a i met someone i'm pretty sure at a uh entrepreneurial conference not unlike uh entrepreneurial conference not unlike uh entrepreneurial conference not unlike microconf microconf microconf maybe it was microconf actually who maybe it was microconf actually who maybe it was microconf actually who worked at this cloud fighter and was one worked at this cloud fighter and was one worked at this cloud fighter and was one of the of the of the principal engineers on their cloud principal engineers on their cloud principal engineers on their cloud services and services and services and i sent that person a quick note and said

i sent that person a quick note and said i sent that person a quick note and said hey hey hey friends problem friends problem friends problem uh do you have any advice for them you uh do you have any advice for them you uh do you have any advice for them you have any pointers uh have any pointers uh have any pointers uh on on where they should dig into uh this on on where they should dig into uh this on on where they should dig into uh this issue they're having issue they're having issue they're having and they immediately got back to me and and they immediately got back to me and and they immediately got back to me and you know basically allowed me to do an you know basically allowed me to do an you know basically allowed me to do an email introduction between the two email introduction between the two email introduction between the two uh the founder and him and uh they had a uh the founder and him and uh they had a uh the founder and him and uh they had a conversation which i i think uh was conversation which i i think uh was conversation which i i think uh was valuable to them valuable to them valuable to them yeah that's great introductions are one yeah that's great introductions are one yeah that's great introductions are one i think technical issues are another i i think technical issues are another i i think technical issues are another i think think think um a founder the other day um a founder the other day um a founder the other day was thinking through whether or not to was thinking through whether or not to was thinking through whether or not to do a big do a big do a big certain type of promotion that could be certain type of promotion that could be certain type of promotion that could be risky for them it could mean a lot of risky for them it could mean a lot of risky for them it could mean a lot of money and a lot of exposure but it could money and a lot of exposure but it could money and a lot of exposure but it could also also also you know maybe make their existing you know maybe make their existing you know maybe make their existing customers pretty angry and not only did customers pretty angry and not only did customers pretty angry and not only did i know geez and i know geez and i know geez and my mics are about that not only do i my mics are about that not only do i my mics are about that not only do i know two founders who have well i guess know two founders who have well i guess know two founders who have well i guess there's three who've done it in the past there's three who've done it in the past there's three who've done it in the past couple years couple years couple years but i had done this a few times myself but i had done this a few times myself but i had done this a few times myself and so there was just a ton of like and so there was just a ton of like and so there was just a ton of like you know in a 30 minute conversation to you know in a 30 minute conversation to you know in a 30 minute conversation to your point earlier your point earlier your point earlier we could cover something that maybe you we could cover something that maybe you we could cover something that maybe you just you couldn't get just you couldn't get just you couldn't get anywhere else you know or maybe he would anywhere else you know or maybe he would anywhere else you know or maybe he would have had to do cold outreach on linkedin have had to do cold outreach on linkedin have had to do cold outreach on linkedin to find someone else who had done it you to find someone else who had done it you to find someone else who had done it you know i mean it just becomes this know i mean it just becomes this know i mean it just becomes this this thing where you've either been this thing where you've either been this thing where you've either been through it yourself or you know the through it yourself or you know the through it yourself or you know the people who've been through it and you people who've been through it and you people who've been through it and you can can can you know quickly leapfrog them i'm you know quickly leapfrog them i'm you know quickly leapfrog them i'm curious for the purposes of our curious for the purposes of our curious for the purposes of our conversation conversation conversation um when you think of mentorship versus um when you think of mentorship versus um when you think of mentorship versus advising do you feel like they're advising do you feel like they're advising do you feel like they're you know perhaps synonymous it's like

you know perhaps synonymous it's like you know perhaps synonymous it's like being there to be a backstop and to being there to be a backstop and to being there to be a backstop and to to um give advice when when folks need to um give advice when when folks need to um give advice when when folks need it it it yeah i think they're yeah it's kind of yeah i think they're yeah it's kind of yeah i think they're yeah it's kind of hard to maybe hard to maybe hard to maybe to pick those apart at least in my mind to pick those apart at least in my mind to pick those apart at least in my mind um i think some of it is also um i think some of it is also um i think some of it is also um being there to think through a um being there to think through a um being there to think through a problem from a different perspective problem from a different perspective problem from a different perspective than maybe the founder has than maybe the founder has than maybe the founder has because you know a lot of times we all because you know a lot of times we all because you know a lot of times we all have kind of a default perspective about have kind of a default perspective about have kind of a default perspective about approaching a problem approaching a problem approaching a problem just think about anything and you know just think about anything and you know just think about anything and you know in ios there's people who like think in ios there's people who like think in ios there's people who like think about everything through about everything through about everything through you know mvc patterns and then people you know mvc patterns and then people you know mvc patterns and then people want to do the want to do the want to do the viper thing and there's all these viper thing and there's all these viper thing and there's all these different ways of approaching a different ways of approaching a different ways of approaching a technical problem technical problem technical problem same thing with business problems um but same thing with business problems um but same thing with business problems um but people kind of have their defaults their people kind of have their defaults their people kind of have their defaults their favorite thing to go to and sometimes favorite thing to go to and sometimes favorite thing to go to and sometimes you know it's just like well what if you you know it's just like well what if you you know it's just like well what if you did this what what would that look like did this what what would that look like did this what what would that look like for you how that changed things and for you how that changed things and for you how that changed things and bring a different perspective bring a different perspective bring a different perspective even if it's not necessarily advice even if it's not necessarily advice even if it's not necessarily advice because you know the founder is going to because you know the founder is going to because you know the founder is going to know more than i do about their know more than i do about their know more than i do about their situation situation situation that's see that's a big thing that i that's see that's a big thing that i that's see that's a big thing that i think some if you've never had an think some if you've never had an think some if you've never had an advisor a mentor i want to call back to advisor a mentor i want to call back to advisor a mentor i want to call back to one of the first things you said in this one of the first things you said in this one of the first things you said in this conversation which was conversation which was conversation which was an advisor isn't going to know ever well an advisor isn't going to know ever well an advisor isn't going to know ever well you just said advisor isn't going to you just said advisor isn't going to you just said advisor isn't going to know everything and that's true and the know everything and that's true and the know everything and that's true and the founder is actually going to know their founder is actually going to know their founder is actually going to know their situation situation situation better and the advisor is not a magic better and the advisor is not a magic better and the advisor is not a magic silver bullet that's going to fix silver bullet that's going to fix silver bullet that's going to fix impossible situations impossible situations impossible situations nor are they going to sometimes they see

nor are they going to sometimes they see nor are they going to sometimes they see things you don't things you don't things you don't but oftentimes when i because i i give but oftentimes when i because i i give but oftentimes when i because i i give a lot of advice i'm a mentor to a lot of a lot of advice i'm a mentor to a lot of a lot of advice i'm a mentor to a lot of founders and founders and founders and oftentimes i'm trying to push into them oftentimes i'm trying to push into them oftentimes i'm trying to push into them to get more information out and almost to get more information out and almost to get more information out and almost get them to unpack it get them to unpack it get them to unpack it and get them to see it in a new way and get them to see it in a new way and get them to see it in a new way i so again sometimes i have unique i so again sometimes i have unique i so again sometimes i have unique insights because it's like oh i've seen insights because it's like oh i've seen insights because it's like oh i've seen this before this before this before and i can just pattern match on top of and i can just pattern match on top of and i can just pattern match on top of it of the options there's only three it of the options there's only three it of the options there's only three options here boom boom boom here's how options here boom boom boom here's how options here boom boom boom here's how to negotiate that or whatever but to negotiate that or whatever but to negotiate that or whatever but oftentimes it's helping if it's pulling oftentimes it's helping if it's pulling oftentimes it's helping if it's pulling it out of the founder you know it's it out of the founder you know it's it out of the founder you know it's not just a sanity check but a little bit not just a sanity check but a little bit not just a sanity check but a little bit mini therapist almost of asking i ask mini therapist almost of asking i ask mini therapist almost of asking i ask more questions more questions more questions than i than i talk in in advice than i than i talk in in advice than i than i talk in in advice sessions because i'm trying to get info sessions because i'm trying to get info sessions because i'm trying to get info for me to think about but also for the for me to think about but also for the for me to think about but also for the founder to come to their own founder to come to their own founder to come to their own realizations often do you find that realizations often do you find that realizations often do you find that similar with with your work similar with with your work similar with with your work definitely and not just mentoring but definitely and not just mentoring but definitely and not just mentoring but like like like being a manager or a team lead or being a manager or a team lead or being a manager or a team lead or whatever like whatever like whatever like if you just tell somebody that they need if you just tell somebody that they need if you just tell somebody that they need to do x y and z to do x y and z to do x y and z they're not going to necessarily they're not going to necessarily they're not going to necessarily understand why or understand why or understand why or what you're thinking is so it's far what you're thinking is so it's far what you're thinking is so it's far better to better to better to get them to think through the get them to think through the get them to think through the implications of of your implications of of your implications of of your reasoning and you know like i said it's reasoning and you know like i said it's reasoning and you know like i said it's quite possible they'll come to a quite possible they'll come to a quite possible they'll come to a different conclusion than different conclusion than different conclusion than you know what i'm thinking because they you know what i'm thinking because they you know what i'm thinking because they know more about the situation know more about the situation know more about the situation and you know frankly more about their and you know frankly more about their and you know frankly more about their own skill sets and uh own skill sets and uh own skill sets and uh what they're willing to do so yeah what they're willing to do so yeah what they're willing to do so yeah asking questions a lot of times is

asking questions a lot of times is asking questions a lot of times is way more valuable than giving answers i way more valuable than giving answers i way more valuable than giving answers i think because think because think because right sometimes it'll prompt them to be right sometimes it'll prompt them to be right sometimes it'll prompt them to be more creative and more creative and more creative and they'll think of something that neither they'll think of something that neither they'll think of something that neither of us had thought about before of us had thought about before of us had thought about before yep we have a question from the audience yep we have a question from the audience yep we have a question from the audience from pablo fernandez he says from pablo fernandez he says from pablo fernandez he says do you follow up with people with the do you follow up with people with the do you follow up with people with the people you help people you help people you help with a specific problem to see how it with a specific problem to see how it with a specific problem to see how it went and to find went and to find went and to find further opportunities to help how do you further opportunities to help how do you further opportunities to help how do you organize this organize this organize this i have some thoughts but yeah why don't i have some thoughts but yeah why don't i have some thoughts but yeah why don't you start you start you start well i don't know if i'm well i don't know if i'm well i don't know if i'm super organized about it but i i super organized about it but i i super organized about it but i i generally try to generally try to generally try to to follow up afterwards and and see how to follow up afterwards and and see how to follow up afterwards and and see how things are going things are going things are going but um you know if somebody's come to me but um you know if somebody's come to me but um you know if somebody's come to me with a with a with a problem before i don't think i need to problem before i don't think i need to problem before i don't think i need to prompt for them you know to give me more prompt for them you know to give me more prompt for them you know to give me more problems problems problems um i usually have enough to do um i usually have enough to do um i usually have enough to do and i'm confident if they ask me about and i'm confident if they ask me about and i'm confident if they ask me about one they'll ask me about the next one one they'll ask me about the next one one they'll ask me about the next one yeah what we've seen anecdotally i don't yeah what we've seen anecdotally i don't yeah what we've seen anecdotally i don't have have have concrete data on this but just in my concrete data on this but just in my concrete data on this but just in my experience is that founders who reach experience is that founders who reach experience is that founders who reach out and ask for help when they have a out and ask for help when they have a out and ask for help when they have a problem and then are coachable problem and then are coachable problem and then are coachable and not that they necessarily need to do and not that they necessarily need to do and not that they necessarily need to do exactly what a mentor or an advisor says exactly what a mentor or an advisor says exactly what a mentor or an advisor says but they at least are willing to weigh but they at least are willing to weigh but they at least are willing to weigh that with their own opinions that with their own opinions that with their own opinions those founders tend to progress faster those founders tend to progress faster those founders tend to progress faster and and be more successful and i say and and be more successful and i say and and be more successful and i say that as someone who resisted that as someone who resisted that as someone who resisted advice and mentorship for years until advice and mentorship for years until advice and mentorship for years until i mean really it was only over the past i mean really it was only over the past i mean really it was only over the past let's say eight or ten years that i let's say eight or ten years that i let's say eight or ten years that i started making myself more and more open

started making myself more and more open started making myself more and more open to that to that to that um and i think that can be a natural um and i think that can be a natural um and i think that can be a natural maybe a natural feeling in some of us to maybe a natural feeling in some of us to maybe a natural feeling in some of us to think i'm gonna do this alone or think i'm gonna do this alone or think i'm gonna do this alone or you know i know how to do this on my own you know i know how to do this on my own you know i know how to do this on my own but um but um but um i've yeah i found that founders who i've yeah i found that founders who i've yeah i found that founders who reach out with problems will reach out reach out with problems will reach out reach out with problems will reach out with the next one with the next one with the next one um there are also certain founders that um there are also certain founders that um there are also certain founders that i have a lot of touch points with i have a lot of touch points with i have a lot of touch points with obviously obviously obviously you know in terms of tiny seed there's a you know in terms of tiny seed there's a you know in terms of tiny seed there's a lot of lot of lot of founders who have um talked to probably founders who have um talked to probably founders who have um talked to probably twice a month three times a month and twice a month three times a month and twice a month three times a month and those ones are easy because those ones are easy because those ones are easy because when they start talking the next time i when they start talking the next time i when they start talking the next time i remember what we talked about last time remember what we talked about last time remember what we talked about last time and i'm able to ask and follow up so and i'm able to ask and follow up so and i'm able to ask and follow up so i'll have to write that down i'll have to write that down i'll have to write that down then there are angel investments i've then there are angel investments i've then there are angel investments i've made that where i don't have regular made that where i don't have regular made that where i don't have regular contact with folks contact with folks contact with folks and for those folks when they ask for and for those folks when they ask for and for those folks when they ask for advice or thoughts i give them the advice or thoughts i give them the advice or thoughts i give them the thoughts and i i let it go and thoughts and i i let it go and thoughts and i i let it go and usually they circle back with a text a usually they circle back with a text a usually they circle back with a text a few weeks later oh this is how it went few weeks later oh this is how it went few weeks later oh this is how it went or sometimes it's six months and i'll be or sometimes it's six months and i'll be or sometimes it's six months and i'll be like hey remember that situation we like hey remember that situation we like hey remember that situation we talked about whatever happened with that talked about whatever happened with that talked about whatever happened with that since i'm only brought in to talk about since i'm only brought in to talk about since i'm only brought in to talk about like pretty big like pretty big like pretty big things it's almost like we're going to things it's almost like we're going to things it's almost like we're going to get bought we're going to acquire a get bought we're going to acquire a get bought we're going to acquire a company we're going to you know do company we're going to you know do company we're going to you know do something larger something larger something larger at least with my angel investments those at least with my angel investments those at least with my angel investments those ones are big and they tend to ones are big and they tend to ones are big and they tend to i do tend to hear how they end um i i do tend to hear how they end um i i do tend to hear how they end um i think there are obviously some smaller think there are obviously some smaller think there are obviously some smaller you know a lot of smaller issues going you know a lot of smaller issues going you know a lot of smaller issues going on with with tiny seed folks on with with tiny seed folks on with with tiny seed folks um there's a follow-up cool there's two um there's a follow-up cool there's two um there's a follow-up cool there's two more questions actually this is great more questions actually this is great more questions actually this is great please keep keep them coming follow up please keep keep them coming follow up please keep keep them coming follow up from pablo he says any recommendations from pablo he says any recommendations from pablo he says any recommendations on how to become on how to become on how to become more coachable ooh that's a good one you more coachable ooh that's a good one you more coachable ooh that's a good one you have any thoughts on that john

that's that's hard i think going back to that's that's hard i think going back to what you said earlier about being what you said earlier about being what you said earlier about being reluctant to take reluctant to take reluctant to take you know advice from other people uh i you know advice from other people uh i you know advice from other people uh i definitely had definitely had definitely had i probably still have that problem uh i probably still have that problem uh i probably still have that problem uh it's it's hard because it's it's hard because it's it's hard because at least i feel like you go through at least i feel like you go through at least i feel like you go through school and there's uh school and there's uh school and there's uh schools don't like cheat codes right schools don't like cheat codes right schools don't like cheat codes right they want you to they want you to they want you to they want you to do all the work they want you to do all the work they want you to do all the work yourself and the group projects tends to yourself and the group projects tends to yourself and the group projects tends to be be be you know one person doing all the work you know one person doing all the work you know one person doing all the work and that sort of stuff and that sort of stuff and that sort of stuff and so i think you and so i think you and so i think you you really need to to be an entrepreneur you really need to to be an entrepreneur you really need to to be an entrepreneur you'll benefit from trying to let go of you'll benefit from trying to let go of you'll benefit from trying to let go of that intentionally and that intentionally and that intentionally and you know even personal finance i know a you know even personal finance i know a you know even personal finance i know a lot of people who lot of people who lot of people who want to do their own taxes and i'm like want to do their own taxes and i'm like want to do their own taxes and i'm like you're crazy pay the 200 you're crazy pay the 200 you're crazy pay the 200 and let somebody else do that work for and let somebody else do that work for and let somebody else do that work for you what are you what are you doing you what are you what are you doing you what are you what are you doing um same thing for entrepreneurship you um same thing for entrepreneurship you um same thing for entrepreneurship you don't need to figure out everything you don't need to figure out everything you don't need to figure out everything you don't need to figure out your sales don't need to figure out your sales don't need to figure out your sales funnel you don't need to figure out your funnel you don't need to figure out your funnel you don't need to figure out your whole marketing thing whole marketing thing whole marketing thing i you're allowed to ask for help and i you're allowed to ask for help and i you're allowed to ask for help and try out other people's ideas you don't try out other people's ideas you don't try out other people's ideas you don't have to own it you should understand have to own it you should understand have to own it you should understand you know why you're doing it as best as you know why you're doing it as best as you know why you're doing it as best as you can but you can but you can but you don't need to do everything yourself you don't need to do everything yourself you don't need to do everything yourself is not cheating to get somebody to help is not cheating to get somebody to help is not cheating to get somebody to help you out you out you out yeah and i think my thoughts on that on yeah and i think my thoughts on that on yeah and i think my thoughts on that on recommendations to become more coachable recommendations to become more coachable recommendations to become more coachable i can say from my perspective of i can say from my perspective of i can say from my perspective of experiencing it firsthand it was experiencing it firsthand it was experiencing it firsthand it was i struggled to find the people that i i struggled to find the people that i i struggled to find the people that i wanted to listen to in the early days wanted to listen to in the early days wanted to listen to in the early days and i felt like founders

and i felt like founders and i felt like founders i i when i was wanted to be a founder i i i when i was wanted to be a founder i i i when i was wanted to be a founder i wanted to take advice from founders wanted to take advice from founders wanted to take advice from founders whether that's right or wrong that was whether that's right or wrong that was whether that's right or wrong that was how i wanted someone who had started a how i wanted someone who had started a how i wanted someone who had started a company who had been in my shoes company who had been in my shoes company who had been in my shoes to give me the advice in addition i had to give me the advice in addition i had to give me the advice in addition i had i really struggled to find successful i really struggled to find successful i really struggled to find successful bootstrap founders bootstrap founders bootstrap founders because it was like at the time because it was like at the time because it was like at the time mailchimp right and i'm sorry it was uh mailchimp right and i'm sorry it was uh mailchimp right and i'm sorry it was uh it was base camp and mailchimp actually it was base camp and mailchimp actually it was base camp and mailchimp actually came a few years later came a few years later came a few years later and i didn't necessarily agree with all and i didn't necessarily agree with all and i didn't necessarily agree with all the stuff base camp was saying at the the stuff base camp was saying at the the stuff base camp was saying at the time either time either time either so i really struggled to find anyone so i really struggled to find anyone so i really struggled to find anyone once i did and once i started seeing once i did and once i started seeing once i did and once i started seeing people people people where i was like they want to be where i was like they want to be where i was like they want to be ambitious but they're also not going to ambitious but they're also not going to ambitious but they're also not going to destroy their personal lives destroy their personal lives destroy their personal lives and they're willing to to hold funding and they're willing to to hold funding and they're willing to to hold funding and bootstrapping intention it's not and bootstrapping intention it's not and bootstrapping intention it's not this big dichotomy i would never do this this big dichotomy i would never do this this big dichotomy i would never do this i would always do this i would always do this i would always do this people like a heat and sha you know and people like a heat and sha you know and people like a heat and sha you know and jason cohen um jason cohen um jason cohen um i'm trying to think like you know steli i'm trying to think like you know steli i'm trying to think like you know steli fd more on sales i mean there's a lot of fd more on sales i mean there's a lot of fd more on sales i mean there's a lot of people that i just have a people that i just have a people that i just have a pretty deep respect for in terms of of pretty deep respect for in terms of of pretty deep respect for in terms of of how they run companies how they run companies how they run companies that's when i started realizing oh i can that's when i started realizing oh i can that's when i started realizing oh i can open up to them and say hey i'm open up to them and say hey i'm open up to them and say hey i'm struggling with this thing right now struggling with this thing right now struggling with this thing right now what do you think what do you think what do you think and just get advice and that was the and just get advice and that was the and just get advice and that was the first step for me was just to ask first step for me was just to ask first step for me was just to ask because they shared your values yeah because they shared your values yeah because they shared your values yeah that's the thing i think is a big thing that's the thing i think is a big thing that's the thing i think is a big thing is is is finding people that where it's like i finding people that where it's like i finding people that where it's like i kind of want to be more like you maybe i kind of want to be more like you maybe i kind of want to be more like you maybe i don't you know jason cohen now runs wp don't you know jason cohen now runs wp don't you know jason cohen now runs wp engine which engine which engine which i don't have inside of information i'm i don't have inside of information i'm i don't have inside of information i'm guessing that thing's got to be worth a guessing that thing's got to be worth a guessing that thing's got to be worth a billion dollars right now because when i billion dollars right now because when i billion dollars right now because when i got cashed out it was worth replacing got cashed out it was worth replacing got cashed out it was worth replacing that that that so so i don't and i don't want to do so so i don't and i don't want to do so so i don't and i don't want to do that i don't have the desire myself to that i don't have the desire myself to that i don't have the desire myself to do it but i do like the way he do it but i do like the way he do it but i do like the way he approaches problems and thinks about approaches problems and thinks about approaches problems and thinks about things and again you know things and again you know things and again you know everything do i want to be jason cohen everything do i want to be jason cohen everything do i want to be jason cohen in every way no i don't but do i want in every way no i don't but do i want in every way no i don't but do i want would i take advice from him because i

would i take advice from him because i would i take advice from him because i think he's smart and i think he's been think he's smart and i think he's been think he's smart and i think he's been there i would there i would there i would and i also think he doesn't see the and i also think he doesn't see the and i also think he doesn't see the world as oh be a unicorn or go home world as oh be a unicorn or go home world as oh be a unicorn or go home right it's someone who can give me right it's someone who can give me right it's someone who can give me reasonable advice so i think a big part reasonable advice so i think a big part reasonable advice so i think a big part of that is finding those folks who are of that is finding those folks who are of that is finding those folks who are you know just enough ahead of you and you know just enough ahead of you and you know just enough ahead of you and then being willing to weigh their then being willing to weigh their then being willing to weigh their advice with to let it challenge your advice with to let it challenge your advice with to let it challenge your beliefs like i'm so beliefs like i'm so beliefs like i'm so here's a good example i'm working on my here's a good example i'm working on my here's a good example i'm working on my next book i've talked a little bit about next book i've talked a little bit about next book i've talked a little bit about this this this it's like tentative titles like the sas it's like tentative titles like the sas it's like tentative titles like the sas playbook playbook playbook um looking at building some like a um looking at building some like a um looking at building some like a million dollar sass app right how to get million dollar sass app right how to get million dollar sass app right how to get from zero to seven figures from zero to seven figures from zero to seven figures and i have been so much more open in and i have been so much more open in and i have been so much more open in this writing process than any prior this writing process than any prior this writing process than any prior so i have taken the table of contents so i have taken the table of contents so i have taken the table of contents and yesterday i sent it to and yesterday i sent it to and yesterday i sent it to four founders whom i trust um four founders whom i trust um four founders whom i trust um and like ruben gomez is one right derek and like ruben gomez is one right derek and like ruben gomez is one right derek rymer these are people that i have long rymer these are people that i have long rymer these are people that i have long like decade-long relationships with and like decade-long relationships with and like decade-long relationships with and i trust that their opinion i trust that their opinion i trust that their opinion is not some flippant thing they're not is not some flippant thing they're not is not some flippant thing they're not going to send me off on a rabbit trail going to send me off on a rabbit trail going to send me off on a rabbit trail but they're going to give me they're but they're going to give me they're but they're going to give me they're going to be pretty honest going to be pretty honest going to be pretty honest with what they say and i see that as a with what they say and i see that as a with what they say and i see that as a form of maybe it's not mentorship but form of maybe it's not mentorship but form of maybe it's not mentorship but it's certainly it's certainly it's certainly being open to feedback and advice and i being open to feedback and advice and i being open to feedback and advice and i said this is a table of contents i love said this is a table of contents i love said this is a table of contents i love this this this tell me what you don't like about it you tell me what you don't like about it you tell me what you don't like about it you know and then i was able to pretty know and then i was able to pretty know and then i was able to pretty quickly quickly quickly pivot and give feedback um based on that pivot and give feedback um based on that pivot and give feedback um based on that so so so hopefully that's helpful pablo on on you hopefully that's helpful pablo on on you hopefully that's helpful pablo on on you know becoming more coachable know becoming more coachable know becoming more coachable we have another we have two more we have another we have two more we have another we have two more questions another one uh or this is from questions another one uh or this is from questions another one uh or this is from chris willow from microcomp chris willow from microcomp chris willow from microcomp connect he says can you talk about what connect he says can you talk about what connect he says can you talk about what what's what's what's in it for the mentor if they're not in it for the mentor if they're not in it for the mentor if they're not an investor and that's an interesting an investor and that's an interesting an investor and that's an interesting question to you john question to you john question to you john are you a mentor to our advisor to are you a mentor to our advisor to are you a mentor to our advisor to any founders where you you have not

any founders where you you have not any founders where you you have not written a check written a check written a check hmm hmm hmm [Music] [Music] [Music] yeah i'm pretty sure like you know not yeah i'm pretty sure like you know not yeah i'm pretty sure like you know not not formal but almost none of them are not formal but almost none of them are not formal but almost none of them are formal like i'm your mentor formal like i'm your mentor formal like i'm your mentor relationships relationships relationships um definitely i've talked to um definitely i've talked to um definitely i've talked to countless people hit you know microconf countless people hit you know microconf countless people hit you know microconf and and and talk through all sorts of different talk through all sorts of different talk through all sorts of different stuff from personal finance to technical stuff from personal finance to technical stuff from personal finance to technical stuff to business stuff and stuff to business stuff and stuff to business stuff and um someone was just shooting the breeze um someone was just shooting the breeze um someone was just shooting the breeze but some of it was but some of it was but some of it was you know thinking uh about what you know thinking uh about what you know thinking uh about what other companies and civil positions have other companies and civil positions have other companies and civil positions have done in their their situation done in their their situation done in their their situation and given them some ideas on that so and given them some ideas on that so and given them some ideas on that so yeah i don't think i don't feel it's any yeah i don't think i don't feel it's any yeah i don't think i don't feel it's any different uh different uh different uh except for the fact that you know if except for the fact that you know if except for the fact that you know if you're a random person you're probably you're a random person you're probably you're a random person you're probably not going to have not going to have not going to have access to reach me unless i see you at access to reach me unless i see you at access to reach me unless i see you at microconf microconf microconf or right some other hallway yeah yeah or right some other hallway yeah yeah or right some other hallway yeah yeah exactly and so what's exactly and so what's exactly and so what's so what's in it for you in that respect so what's in it for you in that respect so what's in it for you in that respect then you know why would you give spend then you know why would you give spend then you know why would you give spend your time to give a thought and advice your time to give a thought and advice your time to give a thought and advice well because well because well because it's fun and educational i usually end it's fun and educational i usually end it's fun and educational i usually end up learning something up learning something up learning something especially with the microconf crowd who especially with the microconf crowd who especially with the microconf crowd who you know they're extremely sharp you know they're extremely sharp you know they're extremely sharp people and you'll get a lot of oh okay people and you'll get a lot of oh okay people and you'll get a lot of oh okay that's interesting that's interesting that's interesting but what about this and then you learn a but what about this and then you learn a but what about this and then you learn a new detail and you're like oh that's a new detail and you're like oh that's a new detail and you're like oh that's a good question i don't know and then good question i don't know and then good question i don't know and then somebody else will chime in and you end somebody else will chime in and you end somebody else will chime in and you end up up up you always end up learning something new you always end up learning something new you always end up learning something new or at least getting a new perspective or at least getting a new perspective or at least getting a new perspective or um i mean like things like

or um i mean like things like or um i mean like things like marketing techniques and tactics they're marketing techniques and tactics they're marketing techniques and tactics they're always changing right because always changing right because always changing right because what's available is always changing so what's available is always changing so what's available is always changing so you know i will you know i will you know i will inevitably learn something about like inevitably learn something about like inevitably learn something about like you know i've heard about this new crazy you know i've heard about this new crazy you know i've heard about this new crazy clubhouse thing clubhouse thing clubhouse thing and how you advertise on that oh okay and how you advertise on that oh okay and how you advertise on that oh okay interesting interesting interesting yep and that's something i think um i guess again i'll come from my i guess again i'll come from my perspective of why perspective of why perspective of why was i giving advice why have i given was i giving advice why have i given was i giving advice why have i given advice to founders advice to founders advice to founders if i don't own part of the company and if i don't own part of the company and if i don't own part of the company and i'll say a couple things if you want i'll say a couple things if you want i'll say a couple things if you want advice from a mentor or an advisor long advice from a mentor or an advisor long advice from a mentor or an advisor long term term term and you do think they'll be extremely and you do think they'll be extremely and you do think they'll be extremely valuable then they should get some valuable then they should get some valuable then they should get some advisor shares advisor shares advisor shares usually it's between a quarter of a usually it's between a quarter of a usually it's between a quarter of a percent up to percent up to percent up to man it's about a half percent to one man it's about a half percent to one man it's about a half percent to one percent of the company that's typical percent of the company that's typical percent of the company that's typical silicon valley silicon valley silicon valley uh numbers and even the typical i've uh numbers and even the typical i've uh numbers and even the typical i've seen some bootstrap founders do that seen some bootstrap founders do that seen some bootstrap founders do that give away half a percent give away half a percent give away half a percent that vests over let's say two or three that vests over let's say two or three that vests over let's say two or three years assuming that the advisor is years assuming that the advisor is years assuming that the advisor is giving giving giving advice and what you know certainly some advice and what you know certainly some advice and what you know certainly some advisors advice is advisors advice is advisors advice is well worth that plus um well worth that plus um well worth that plus um however i have also given advice to i however i have also given advice to i however i have also given advice to i would say hundreds of founders i mean if would say hundreds of founders i mean if would say hundreds of founders i mean if you don't if you count you don't if you count you don't if you count individual advice via email and calls individual advice via email and calls individual advice via email and calls it's got to be hundreds and hundreds it's got to be hundreds and hundreds it's got to be hundreds and hundreds since since since you know i started doing it in let's say you know i started doing it in let's say you know i started doing it in let's say 2008 probably seven 2008 probably seven 2008 probably seven and if you count the mass advice you and if you count the mass advice you and if you count the mass advice you know imagine like how many questions know imagine like how many questions know imagine like how many questions we've answered on startups for the rest we've answered on startups for the rest we've answered on startups for the rest of us where of us where of us where it's not a direct mentorship um it's not a direct mentorship um it's not a direct mentorship um relationship or a direct one-on-one call relationship or a direct one-on-one call relationship or a direct one-on-one call but oftentimes we will dig into but oftentimes we will dig into but oftentimes we will dig into someone's problem and they'll come back someone's problem and they'll come back someone's problem and they'll come back and say well i hadn't even thought that

and say well i hadn't even thought that and say well i hadn't even thought that and that completely changed and that completely changed and that completely changed the way so you might ask well why do the way so you might ask well why do the way so you might ask well why do that like why would i spend my time that like why would i spend my time that like why would i spend my time doing that doing that doing that and i think similar to you john a it's and i think similar to you john a it's and i think similar to you john a it's it's fun it's interesting to think about it's fun it's interesting to think about it's fun it's interesting to think about solving problems solving problems solving problems it's if i have expertise in something i it's if i have expertise in something i it's if i have expertise in something i i guess i feel a little bit of an i guess i feel a little bit of an i guess i feel a little bit of an obligation to share it and to help other obligation to share it and to help other obligation to share it and to help other people i've always had that people i've always had that people i've always had that kind of built in and i think yeah i kind of built in and i think yeah i kind of built in and i think yeah i guess guess guess i guess maybe that's it so i definitely i guess maybe that's it so i definitely i guess maybe that's it so i definitely think it's easier if someone's an think it's easier if someone's an think it's easier if someone's an investor investor investor or like getting you know some type of of or like getting you know some type of of or like getting you know some type of of equity to get ongoing equity to get ongoing equity to get ongoing help because that's something that i help because that's something that i help because that's something that i don't commit to anymore of like i'm don't commit to anymore of like i'm don't commit to anymore of like i'm going to give you advice on a monthly going to give you advice on a monthly going to give you advice on a monthly basis basis basis you know just because like that's just you know just because like that's just you know just because like that's just not something i can do but there are a not something i can do but there are a not something i can do but there are a lot of folks who lot of folks who lot of folks who might be willing to dip their toe if might be willing to dip their toe if might be willing to dip their toe if they haven't been an advisor yet and they haven't been an advisor yet and they haven't been an advisor yet and they're trying to kind of work their way they're trying to kind of work their way they're trying to kind of work their way up and figure it out i do think there up and figure it out i do think there up and figure it out i do think there there's some opportunities it's just not there's some opportunities it's just not there's some opportunities it's just not going to be the going to be the going to be the um you know busy people don't have time um you know busy people don't have time um you know busy people don't have time for that unless they have to justify it for that unless they have to justify it for that unless they have to justify it somehow right somehow right somehow right but folks who are maybe just getting but folks who are maybe just getting but folks who are maybe just getting into advising might into advising might into advising might all right i'm going to since we're all right i'm going to since we're all right i'm going to since we're running short on time i'm going to dip running short on time i'm going to dip running short on time i'm going to dip into our next question into our next question into our next question spencer paulie from youtube he says how spencer paulie from youtube he says how spencer paulie from youtube he says how formal formal formal are the mentorships or advising are the mentorships or advising are the mentorships or advising relationships you're talking about is relationships you're talking about is relationships you're talking about is there an equity split there an equity split there an equity split consistent scheduled meetings or is it consistent scheduled meetings or is it consistent scheduled meetings or is it more informal more informal more informal what do you think john mine are a what do you think john mine are a what do you think john mine are a hundred percent hundred percent hundred percent informal that that's i don't informal that that's i don't informal that that's i don't generally have time to do it otherwise i generally have time to do it otherwise i generally have time to do it otherwise i you know if i was getting equity split you know if i was getting equity split you know if i was getting equity split i'd certainly consider it but i'd certainly consider it but i'd certainly consider it but yeah that's that's my situation yeah and

yeah that's that's my situation yeah and yeah that's that's my situation yeah and mine mine mine mine is split um i think that i've had a mine is split um i think that i've had a mine is split um i think that i've had a few few few so i to give you context i have i think so i to give you context i have i think so i to give you context i have i think it's like 16 angel investments now it's like 16 angel investments now it's like 16 angel investments now sherry and i have made sherry and i have made sherry and i have made and those have been over the past 10 and those have been over the past 10 and those have been over the past 10 years and then tiny seed is about once years and then tiny seed is about once years and then tiny seed is about once we close batch we close batch we close batch three here in the next month or so we'll three here in the next month or so we'll three here in the next month or so we'll have four um have four um have four um 40 around 40 41.42 so totally 40 around 40 41.42 so totally 40 around 40 41.42 so totally total i'm approaching like 60 companies total i'm approaching like 60 companies total i'm approaching like 60 companies that i'm i'm invested in and thus that i'm i'm invested in and thus that i'm i'm invested in and thus advising and i would say that obviously advising and i would say that obviously advising and i would say that obviously the ones in a current tiny c batch are the ones in a current tiny c batch are the ones in a current tiny c batch are more formal because they're scheduled more formal because they're scheduled more formal because they're scheduled the ones outside of that do tend to be the ones outside of that do tend to be the ones outside of that do tend to be more informal but i have had some more informal but i have had some more informal but i have had some founders say look especially early on i founders say look especially early on i founders say look especially early on i would love to chat with you once a month would love to chat with you once a month would love to chat with you once a month for 30 minutes just for 30 minutes just for 30 minutes just or even an hour to like dump everything or even an hour to like dump everything or even an hour to like dump everything on you and have you sanity check in on you and have you sanity check in on you and have you sanity check in feedback and so that has been something feedback and so that has been something feedback and so that has been something we've done i found that it hasn't lasted we've done i found that it hasn't lasted we've done i found that it hasn't lasted very long very long very long usually after a few months the founder usually after a few months the founder usually after a few months the founder gets their feet under them and they feel gets their feet under them and they feel gets their feet under them and they feel better about it they get their footing better about it they get their footing better about it they get their footing and then they you know they're kind of and then they you know they're kind of and then they you know they're kind of kind of taken off with it kind of taken off with it kind of taken off with it um our next question is oh look it's um our next question is oh look it's um our next question is oh look it's like an advice question john this is not like an advice question john this is not like an advice question john this is not about advising about advising about advising it's a direct question about how to it's a direct question about how to it's a direct question about how to speed up growth so it's speed up growth so it's speed up growth so it's kenny and from youtube he says i'm at kenny and from youtube he says i'm at kenny and from youtube he says i'm at the mvp stage the mvp stage the mvp stage and i'm in the process of promoting my and i'm in the process of promoting my and i'm in the process of promoting my sas app it's going slow sas app it's going slow sas app it's going slow due to lack of budget any thoughts on due to lack of budget any thoughts on due to lack of budget any thoughts on how to speed up growth how to speed up growth how to speed up growth on a budget you have any thoughts before on a budget you have any thoughts before on a budget you have any thoughts before i weigh in well yeah it really is going to depend

well yeah it really is going to depend on on on on your market if you can do something on your market if you can do something on your market if you can do something cheap like a publicity stunt then cheap like a publicity stunt then cheap like a publicity stunt then that could be a way to do it um but you that could be a way to do it um but you that could be a way to do it um but you know some markets that's not gonna work know some markets that's not gonna work know some markets that's not gonna work um you need to figure out basically um you need to figure out basically um you need to figure out basically cheap ways to get coverage that cheap ways to get coverage that cheap ways to get coverage that you know don't require an advertising you know don't require an advertising you know don't require an advertising budget perhaps budget perhaps budget perhaps that's it yep so you got you have to that's it yep so you got you have to that's it yep so you got you have to look at what are the expensive ways to look at what are the expensive ways to look at what are the expensive ways to promote promote promote often the expensive ways are very often the expensive ways are very often the expensive ways are very scalable right hiring a sales team scalable right hiring a sales team scalable right hiring a sales team hiring sdrs to do outbound reach uh hiring sdrs to do outbound reach uh hiring sdrs to do outbound reach uh outreach outreach outreach uh pay-per-click advertising those are uh pay-per-click advertising those are uh pay-per-click advertising those are expensive but they're usually really expensive but they're usually really expensive but they're usually really scalable scalable scalable the ones that and there are some that the ones that and there are some that the ones that and there are some that are the opposite or that are that are are the opposite or that are that are are the opposite or that are that are cheap and scalable they're just hard cheap and scalable they're just hard cheap and scalable they're just hard like search engine optimization so like search engine optimization so like search engine optimization so organic rankings in any of the search organic rankings in any of the search organic rankings in any of the search engines like a google engines like a google engines like a google a youtube an app store um a youtube an app store um a youtube an app store um or what was the other one organic oh or or what was the other one organic oh or or what was the other one organic oh or just straight up content marketing just straight up content marketing just straight up content marketing trying to go on trying to go on trying to go on for the viral pop right of trying to get for the viral pop right of trying to get for the viral pop right of trying to get the the articles that get to the top of the the articles that get to the top of the the articles that get to the top of hacker news hacker news hacker news um top of what indie hackers um top of what indie hackers um top of what indie hackers growthhackers.com you know it's it's growthhackers.com you know it's it's growthhackers.com you know it's it's going for that and then long term you going for that and then long term you going for that and then long term you want the want the want the or a reddit sorry that's another one and or a reddit sorry that's another one and or a reddit sorry that's another one and the longer term you want the seo so the longer term you want the seo so the longer term you want the seo so that's what you have to do is go through that's what you have to do is go through that's what you have to do is go through the book traction by um the book traction by um the book traction by um gabriel weinberg and justin maris and gabriel weinberg and justin maris and gabriel weinberg and justin maris and you got to split out which of these are you got to split out which of these are you got to split out which of these are expensive expensive expensive and which of these are cheap in addition and which of these are cheap in addition and which of these are cheap in addition next week there's a conference you know next week there's a conference you know next week there's a conference you know there's a conference online john there's a conference online john there's a conference online john it's called microconf remote and oh wow

it's called microconf remote and oh wow it's called microconf remote and oh wow it yeah it's cheat codes for early stage it yeah it's cheat codes for early stage it yeah it's cheat codes for early stage marketing marketing marketing and we're covering at least four maybe and we're covering at least four maybe and we're covering at least four maybe five five five in-depth early stage marketing in-depth early stage marketing in-depth early stage marketing approaches and we're going to have approaches and we're going to have approaches and we're going to have founders or subject matter experts come founders or subject matter experts come founders or subject matter experts come on to talk numbers about very specific on to talk numbers about very specific on to talk numbers about very specific launches or or tactics that they did in launches or or tactics that they did in launches or or tactics that they did in the early days to get let's say their the early days to get let's say their the early days to get let's say their first hundred or first first hundred or first first hundred or first 500 customers and so ruben gomez with 500 customers and so ruben gomez with 500 customers and so ruben gomez with doc sketch he's going to talk through doc sketch he's going to talk through doc sketch he's going to talk through his um appsumo deal that he ran last his um appsumo deal that he ran last his um appsumo deal that he ran last year derek reimer with year derek reimer with year derek reimer with savvycal is going to talk through his um savvycal is going to talk through his um savvycal is going to talk through his um product hunt launch that he did in product hunt launch that he did in product hunt launch that he did in january and again lay out the numbers january and again lay out the numbers january and again lay out the numbers this is what we did this is the this is what we did this is the this is what we did this is the screenshot of what we you know this is screenshot of what we you know this is screenshot of what we you know this is approach we took approach we took approach we took and we got this many thousands of of you and we got this many thousands of of you and we got this many thousands of of you know unique visitors and on and on so know unique visitors and on and on so know unique visitors and on and on so we're it's very we're it's very we're it's very these are 20 minute sessions plus q a these are 20 minute sessions plus q a these are 20 minute sessions plus q a and it's aimed at folks who are pre and it's aimed at folks who are pre and it's aimed at folks who are pre let's say 10k mrr who are trying these let's say 10k mrr who are trying these let's say 10k mrr who are trying these are not super ultimate scalable you're are not super ultimate scalable you're are not super ultimate scalable you're going to going to going to get traffic forever but do you just need get traffic forever but do you just need get traffic forever but do you just need to get to to roman profitable or to to get to to roman profitable or to to get to to roman profitable or to you know default to live that's what you know default to live that's what you know default to live that's what remote is focused on next week and with that sir that's our time can and with that sir that's our time can you believe it it goes so quick you believe it it goes so quick you believe it it goes so quick doesn't it it felt like nothing doesn't it it felt like nothing doesn't it it felt like nothing it felt like nothing thank you to pablo it felt like nothing thank you to pablo it felt like nothing thank you to pablo and and and chris and spencer and kenny for asking chris and spencer and kenny for asking chris and spencer and kenny for asking your questions it was awesome your questions it was awesome your questions it was awesome kept john and i rolling on this topic of kept john and i rolling on this topic of kept john and i rolling on this topic of uh of mentorship uh of mentorship uh of mentorship and john you're at windaddict on twitter and john you're at windaddict on twitter and john you're at windaddict on twitter love it if folks would love it if folks would love it if folks would go connect with you it's been uh you go connect with you it's been uh you go connect with you it's been uh you know great knowing you've been working know great knowing you've been working know great knowing you've been working with you over these past several years with you over these past several years with you over these past several years and uh

and uh and uh look forward to seeing you in the tiny look forward to seeing you in the tiny look forward to seeing you in the tiny seed slack here thanks for joining me seed slack here thanks for joining me seed slack here thanks for joining me absolutely all right let's wrap it today absolutely all right let's wrap it today absolutely all right let's wrap it today so microcomp remote i just mentioned it so microcomp remote i just mentioned it so microcomp remote i just mentioned it cheat codes for early stage task cheat codes for early stage task cheat codes for early stage task marketing head to microcomp remote dot marketing head to microcomp remote dot marketing head to microcomp remote dot com com com and you can get your ticket you'll want and you can get your ticket you'll want and you can get your ticket you'll want to get that in advance to get that in advance to get that in advance there's a video game interactive there's a video game interactive there's a video game interactive environment it is awesome environment it is awesome environment it is awesome uh producer sander and i tooled around uh producer sander and i tooled around uh producer sander and i tooled around in there so that's the in there so that's the in there so that's the i think there's a like a 75 ticket to i think there's a like a 75 ticket to i think there's a like a 75 ticket to have have have that whole thing it's the video uh oh that whole thing it's the video uh oh that whole thing it's the video uh oh there's a video only access pass that's there's a video only access pass that's there's a video only access pass that's less expensive but the less expensive but the less expensive but the interactive environment is pretty sweet interactive environment is pretty sweet interactive environment is pretty sweet so thanks everyone for joining us today so thanks everyone for joining us today so thanks everyone for joining us today i'll see you next week at remote [Music]

[Music] you