MicroConf On Air + Software Social Podcast Crossover Episode

we we are live welcome to this week's episode are live welcome to this week's episode are live welcome to this week's episode of microcomp of microcomp of microcomp on air i'm your host rob walling and as on air i'm your host rob walling and as on air i'm your host rob walling and as always always always every other wednesday 1 p.m eastern 10 every other wednesday 1 p.m eastern 10 every other wednesday 1 p.m eastern 10 a.m pacific a.m pacific a.m pacific we live stream for about 30 minutes we we live stream for about 30 minutes we we live stream for about 30 minutes we cover topics related to building cover topics related to building cover topics related to building and growing ambitious sas startups that and growing ambitious sas startups that and growing ambitious sas startups that bring us freedom bring us freedom bring us freedom to purpose and allow us to maintain and to purpose and allow us to maintain and to purpose and allow us to maintain and value healthy value healthy value healthy relationships we know that uh the relationships we know that uh the relationships we know that uh the silicon valley way silicon valley way silicon valley way is to raise buckets and buckets of money is to raise buckets and buckets of money is to raise buckets and buckets of money and go big or go home and go big or go home and go big or go home but we believe in bootstrapped and but we believe in bootstrapped and but we believe in bootstrapped and mostly bootstrap founders who are mostly bootstrap founders who are mostly bootstrap founders who are making a change in their lives maybe not making a change in their lives maybe not making a change in their lives maybe not changing the world but at least changing changing the world but at least changing changing the world but at least changing their their their little corner of it thanks for joining little corner of it thanks for joining little corner of it thanks for joining me welcome back me welcome back me welcome back i am excited today to talk about i am excited today to talk about i am excited today to talk about uh to talk about software social it's a uh to talk about software social it's a uh to talk about software social it's a podcast if you're not listening to it podcast if you're not listening to it podcast if you're not listening to it you should be you should be you should be it got nominated for the best podcast in it got nominated for the best podcast in it got nominated for the best podcast in the best podcast category the best podcast category the best podcast category in the microconf sas podcast awards in the microconf sas podcast awards in the microconf sas podcast awards and i have the pleasure of having the and i have the pleasure of having the and i have the pleasure of having the co-host of that podcast co-host of that podcast co-host of that podcast on the show today and we'll be talking on the show today and we'll be talking on the show today and we'll be talking about i have some questions for them about i have some questions for them about i have some questions for them about about about getting started and the benefits they've getting started and the benefits they've getting started and the benefits they've received uh you know from podcasting and received uh you know from podcasting and received uh you know from podcasting and and that kind of stuff but if you are and that kind of stuff but if you are and that kind of stuff but if you are watching this please chime in with your watching this please chime in with your watching this please chime in with your own own own questions uh we love to have the questions uh we love to have the questions uh we love to have the listener engagement listener engagement listener engagement and that's why well the and that's why and that's why well the and that's why and that's why well the and that's why we do we do we do live events like this except just uh live events like this except just uh live events like this except just uh doing them asynchronously through a doing them asynchronously through a doing them asynchronously through a podcast feed podcast feed podcast feed before we dive in i want to mention before we dive in i want to mention before we dive in i want to mention microconf microconf microconf remote which it happens at the end of

remote which it happens at the end of remote which it happens at the end of the month march 23rd 24th 25th it's the month march 23rd 24th 25th it's the month march 23rd 24th 25th it's going to be going to be going to be a pretty amazing event producer xander a pretty amazing event producer xander a pretty amazing event producer xander is um is um is um really outdoing himself on this one so really outdoing himself on this one so really outdoing himself on this one so microcomppromote.com microcomppromote.com microcomppromote.com if you want to get on the list for that if you want to get on the list for that if you want to get on the list for that and and and we'll we'll be putting tickets up for we'll we'll be putting tickets up for we'll we'll be putting tickets up for sale here in the next few days sale here in the next few days sale here in the next few days it's an early stage event and it's aimed it's an early stage event and it's aimed it's an early stage event and it's aimed at folks at folks at folks trying to get they're really their first trying to get they're really their first trying to get they're really their first hundred customers and it's gonna dive hundred customers and it's gonna dive hundred customers and it's gonna dive deep into four specific early stage deep into four specific early stage deep into four specific early stage marketing tactics and we're going to marketing tactics and we're going to marketing tactics and we're going to have folks on who have have folks on who have have folks on who have done a specific tactic to get uh early done a specific tactic to get uh early done a specific tactic to get uh early stage traction and so stage traction and so stage traction and so you know example appsumo or posting on you know example appsumo or posting on you know example appsumo or posting on product hunt and we're going to have a product hunt and we're going to have a product hunt and we're going to have a founder or subject matter expert on founder or subject matter expert on founder or subject matter expert on who has done that very thing and will who has done that very thing and will who has done that very thing and will share as many numbers with us share as many numbers with us share as many numbers with us um as they can so it's gonna be a real um as they can so it's gonna be a real um as they can so it's gonna be a real barn burner especially if you're barn burner especially if you're barn burner especially if you're early stage and i look forward to seeing early stage and i look forward to seeing early stage and i look forward to seeing you there here towards the end of the you there here towards the end of the you there here towards the end of the month month month with that let's dive into software with that let's dive into software with that let's dive into software social social social my two guests today are michelle hansen my two guests today are michelle hansen my two guests today are michelle hansen she's a co-founder of she's a co-founder of she's a co-founder of geopodio and you might remember her from geopodio and you might remember her from geopodio and you might remember her from startups for the rest of us episode 524 startups for the rest of us episode 524 startups for the rest of us episode 524 called bootstrapping a commodity sas called bootstrapping a commodity sas called bootstrapping a commodity sas when she and her husband matthias when she and her husband matthias when she and her husband matthias came on and spoke to me about their came on and spoke to me about their came on and spoke to me about their journey growing journey growing journey growing geocodio to a pretty amazing bootstrap geocodio to a pretty amazing bootstrap geocodio to a pretty amazing bootstrap business business business so um they started that company in 2014 so um they started that company in 2014 so um they started that company in 2014 as a side project as a side project as a side project she went full time in 2017 and as i've she went full time in 2017 and as i've she went full time in 2017 and as i've said she's co-host of the software said she's co-host of the software said she's co-host of the software social podcast which was nominated social podcast which was nominated social podcast which was nominated in several categories for microconf 2020 in several categories for microconf 2020 in several categories for microconf 2020 sas podcast awards sas podcast awards sas podcast awards she also recently launched a free

she also recently launched a free she also recently launched a free newsletter about customer newsletter about customer newsletter about customer research for bootstrappers so check her research for bootstrappers so check her research for bootstrappers so check her out at out at out at mjw hanson on twitter if uh if if you mjw hanson on twitter if uh if if you mjw hanson on twitter if uh if if you want to link to that want to link to that want to link to that and her co-host is calling colleen and her co-host is calling colleen and her co-host is calling colleen schnetler schnetler schnetler who is leni burger on twitter she's a who is leni burger on twitter she's a who is leni burger on twitter she's a ruby on rails consultant she's spoken at ruby on rails consultant she's spoken at ruby on rails consultant she's spoken at both railsconf and rubyconf and loves both railsconf and rubyconf and loves both railsconf and rubyconf and loves being part of the dev community being part of the dev community being part of the dev community she recently launched her first product she recently launched her first product she recently launched her first product simple file upload simple file upload simple file upload excuse me which is in the heroku app excuse me which is in the heroku app excuse me which is in the heroku app marketplace marketplace marketplace if you haven't been following their if you haven't been following their if you haven't been following their story it's super cool to hear story it's super cool to hear story it's super cool to hear this going from zero to 360 mrr this going from zero to 360 mrr this going from zero to 360 mrr in the span of about a month with this in the span of about a month with this in the span of about a month with this file uploader app so again software file uploader app so again software file uploader app so again software social podcast if you want to check that social podcast if you want to check that social podcast if you want to check that out out out and let's see she calling me as a mother and let's see she calling me as a mother and let's see she calling me as a mother and a military spouse and loves chatting and a military spouse and loves chatting and a military spouse and loves chatting about all things about all things about all things software and business ladies welcome to software and business ladies welcome to software and business ladies welcome to the show thanks for joining me today the show thanks for joining me today the show thanks for joining me today hi thanks for having us yeah it's great hi thanks for having us yeah it's great hi thanks for having us yeah it's great great to have issues uh great at you great to have issues uh great at you great to have issues uh great at you sanders it's great to have you here sanders it's great to have you here sanders it's great to have you here as i read the outline where xander says as i read the outline where xander says as i read the outline where xander says the internet is causing uh the internet is causing uh the internet is causing uh causing issues so let me start with this causing issues so let me start with this causing issues so let me start with this before i before i before i try to figure out if i have to try to figure out if i have to try to figure out if i have to troubleshoot my internet or or whatever troubleshoot my internet or or whatever troubleshoot my internet or or whatever it is but um i want to start with this it is but um i want to start with this it is but um i want to start with this question of question of question of when did you start your podcast and when did you start your podcast and when did you start your podcast and what made you decide to do it what made you decide to do it what made you decide to do it so i have actually been on michelle so i have actually been on michelle so i have actually been on michelle for a while like i had been you know for a while like i had been you know for a while like i had been you know asked michelle asked michelle asked michelle for a while if she was interested in for a while if she was interested in for a while if she was interested in starting a podcast

starting a podcast starting a podcast because michelle and i used to always because michelle and i used to always because michelle and i used to always kind of casually meet about once a week kind of casually meet about once a week kind of casually meet about once a week to talk business and i was in that to talk business and i was in that to talk business and i was in that really really really hard idea generation phase where it just hard idea generation phase where it just hard idea generation phase where it just feels like you're just slamming up feels like you're just slamming up feels like you're just slamming up against brick walls like you have a against brick walls like you have a against brick walls like you have a great idea and then great idea and then great idea and then you know you just can't get any traction you know you just can't get any traction you know you just can't get any traction or you can't ship it or you can't find or you can't ship it or you can't find or you can't ship it or you can't find someone to purchase it someone to purchase it someone to purchase it and so we were already meeting and that and so we were already meeting and that and so we were already meeting and that was that was great was that was great was that was great but then covet hit and she moved but then covet hit and she moved but then covet hit and she moved across the ocean you want to take it from there michelle you want to take it from there michelle yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah um so it i think it came out of it um so it i think it came out of it um so it i think it came out of it because because because we wanted to stay connected to each we wanted to stay connected to each we wanted to stay connected to each other and we had other and we had other and we had um some friends in the bootstrap um some friends in the bootstrap um some friends in the bootstrap community community community who had kind of prodded us about it and who had kind of prodded us about it and who had kind of prodded us about it and had said um you know hey like you know had said um you know hey like you know had said um you know hey like you know you guys should have you should have a you guys should have you should have a you guys should have you should have a podcast podcast podcast um and so we're like you know what we'll um and so we're like you know what we'll um and so we're like you know what we'll just we'll just take the conversations just we'll just take the conversations just we'll just take the conversations we're already having we're already having we're already having um and worst case it just like forces us um and worst case it just like forces us um and worst case it just like forces us to keep meeting to keep meeting to keep meeting every week and i think during covid every week and i think during covid every week and i think during covid that's been um that's been um that's been um really helpful to have to schedule in uh really helpful to have to schedule in uh really helpful to have to schedule in uh interaction with other people interaction with other people interaction with other people um and so it really just started as um and so it really just started as um and so it really just started as something that we were kind of doing for something that we were kind of doing for something that we were kind of doing for ourselves and ourselves and ourselves and i think we've sort of joked that we i think we've sort of joked that we i think we've sort of joked that we expected that we would just have like a expected that we would just have like a expected that we would just have like a couple of pity listeners like our couple of pity listeners like our couple of pity listeners like our husbands and some friends of ours and

husbands and some friends of ours and husbands and some friends of ours and it would just sort of just be this thing it would just sort of just be this thing it would just sort of just be this thing we did for each other um we did for each other um we did for each other um so it's it's been really fun so it's it's been really fun so it's it's been really fun yeah i think for me what happened was i yeah i think for me what happened was i yeah i think for me what happened was i was trying to stay motivated was trying to stay motivated was trying to stay motivated and i was searching the internet for you and i was searching the internet for you and i was searching the internet for you know know know bootstrap founder podcast and there's bootstrap founder podcast and there's bootstrap founder podcast and there's you know thousands of bootstrap founder you know thousands of bootstrap founder you know thousands of bootstrap founder podcasts podcasts podcasts but i was listening to one show and i but i was listening to one show and i but i was listening to one show and i distinctly remember distinctly remember distinctly remember the guy was talking about like how he the guy was talking about like how he the guy was talking about like how he got in his car got in his car got in his car and drove to california and he was in and drove to california and he was in and drove to california and he was in just such a different place in his life just such a different place in his life just such a different place in his life like like like i was like where are the parents like i was like where are the parents like i was like where are the parents like the mothers and the mothers and the mothers and you know the people who are trying to you know the people who are trying to you know the people who are trying to build sustainable businesses build sustainable businesses build sustainable businesses while raising a young family and while while raising a young family and while while raising a young family and while working a job like i was looking for working a job like i was looking for working a job like i was looking for an approach that that was would fit more an approach that that was would fit more an approach that that was would fit more like in our life and i didn't feel like like in our life and i didn't feel like like in our life and i didn't feel like a lot of people were podcasting about a lot of people were podcasting about a lot of people were podcasting about that that that yeah i love it and that's that's really yeah i love it and that's that's really yeah i love it and that's that's really why a lot of us i think why a lot of us i think why a lot of us i think start it is we start a podcast or even start it is we start a podcast or even start it is we start a podcast or even why we started microconf was why we started microconf was why we started microconf was that we looked around for other people that we looked around for other people that we looked around for other people trying to do what we wanted to do in the trying to do what we wanted to do in the trying to do what we wanted to do in the way we way we way we we wanted to do it and i like colleen we wanted to do it and i like colleen we wanted to do it and i like colleen you just said you just said you just said i want to start a startup or i want to i want to start a startup or i want to i want to start a startup or i want to start a product that fits around start a product that fits around start a product that fits around my life and not the other way around i'm my life and not the other way around i'm my life and not the other way around i'm not going to be able to not going to be able to not going to be able to i have three kids and a mortgage i'm not i have three kids and a mortgage i'm not i have three kids and a mortgage i'm not gonna be able to hop in a car gonna be able to hop in a car gonna be able to hop in a car and drive to california and and sleep and drive to california and and sleep and drive to california and and sleep you know you know you know on this you know on the side of the road on this you know on the side of the road on this you know on the side of the road in santa clara like in santa clara like in santa clara like some people do it makes a great story some people do it makes a great story some people do it makes a great story but that's not a lot of our reality but that's not a lot of our reality but that's not a lot of our reality and that's frankly the the name of my

and that's frankly the the name of my and that's frankly the the name of my podcast podcast podcast is startups for the rest of us and we is startups for the rest of us and we is startups for the rest of us and we named it that because named it that because named it that because we were we this is 2010 and we wanted we were we this is 2010 and we wanted we were we this is 2010 and we wanted to talk about building ambitious but to talk about building ambitious but to talk about building ambitious but like ambitious startups but that also like ambitious startups but that also like ambitious startups but that also worked with our goals in our life and it worked with our goals in our life and it worked with our goals in our life and it was for the rest of us for all of us who was for the rest of us for all of us who was for the rest of us for all of us who can't can't can't uh you know uproot and and sign up for uh you know uproot and and sign up for uh you know uproot and and sign up for white combinator and maybe move to san white combinator and maybe move to san white combinator and maybe move to san francisco for three months because francisco for three months because francisco for three months because that's just has never been that's just has never been that's just has never been a reality uh for me so i mean i love a reality uh for me so i mean i love a reality uh for me so i mean i love that i love that you guys started it that i love that you guys started it that i love that you guys started it um because a we need more bootstrapping um because a we need more bootstrapping um because a we need more bootstrapping podcasts and b podcasts and b podcasts and b i i just love to see more diverse voices i i just love to see more diverse voices i i just love to see more diverse voices coming into the space it has been coming into the space it has been coming into the space it has been uh you know it's something i talk about uh you know it's something i talk about uh you know it's something i talk about every state of independent sas it's every state of independent sas it's every state of independent sas it's something we focus on with microcomps something we focus on with microcomps something we focus on with microcomps again in terms of again in terms of again in terms of of getting more attendees and more of getting more attendees and more of getting more attendees and more speakers who are you know just speakers who are you know just speakers who are you know just underrepresented um and so i love i love underrepresented um and so i love i love underrepresented um and so i love i love you started and i've been listening to you started and i've been listening to you started and i've been listening to it since since i first heard about it it since since i first heard about it it since since i first heard about it i'm curious have you been doing this i'm curious have you been doing this i'm curious have you been doing this podcast now for how long podcast now for how long podcast now for how long since early august july since early august july since early august july okay that sounds like seven i think okay that sounds like seven i think okay that sounds like seven i think early august was when we first launched early august was when we first launched early august was when we first launched yeah yeah yeah i'm curious maybe start with michelle i'm curious maybe start with michelle i'm curious maybe start with michelle like what benefits if any have you like what benefits if any have you like what benefits if any have you received from the podcast or has it received from the podcast or has it received from the podcast or has it really just been really just been really just been we wanted accountability and have some we wanted accountability and have some we wanted accountability and have some fun or do you feel like fun or do you feel like fun or do you feel like yeah i guess what benefits have have yeah i guess what benefits have have yeah i guess what benefits have have come your way because of it something that's really important to me something that's really important to me as a person as a person as a person is that when i go through something is that when i go through something is that when i go through something difficult that i make it easier

difficult that i make it easier difficult that i make it easier for the people who come after me um for the people who come after me um for the people who come after me um it's just kind of just something that's it's just kind of just something that's it's just kind of just something that's always guided my life and so always guided my life and so always guided my life and so by doing the podcast i feel like i'm by doing the podcast i feel like i'm by doing the podcast i feel like i'm i think we sort of have this goal of i think we sort of have this goal of i think we sort of have this goal of sort of demystifying it sort of demystifying it sort of demystifying it right so a lot of people want to start a right so a lot of people want to start a right so a lot of people want to start a company company company they want a bootstrap company they don't they want a bootstrap company they don't they want a bootstrap company they don't really know where to start they're really know where to start they're really know where to start they're in that exact situation that colleen in that exact situation that colleen in that exact situation that colleen was in not in anymore but wasn't was in not in anymore but wasn't was in not in anymore but wasn't um of you know kind of spinning their um of you know kind of spinning their um of you know kind of spinning their wheels and wheels and wheels and trying to stop consulting and just trying to stop consulting and just trying to stop consulting and just um it's a really frustrating place but a um it's a really frustrating place but a um it's a really frustrating place but a lot of people are in it and so lot of people are in it and so lot of people are in it and so i think there's kind of this opportunity i think there's kind of this opportunity i think there's kind of this opportunity to to just to to just to to just i don't know show people that it's i don't know show people that it's i don't know show people that it's normal to struggle normal to struggle normal to struggle and just normalize that i think and it's just normalize that i think and it's been fun been fun been fun right so fun plus the benefit or the right so fun plus the benefit or the right so fun plus the benefit or the value you get out of it is value you get out of it is value you get out of it is feeling it's like purpose almost i would feeling it's like purpose almost i would feeling it's like purpose almost i would if i would just look at freedom yeah yeah that makes sense how about you yeah yeah that makes sense how about you colleen colleen colleen i've gotten tremendous benefit out of it i've gotten tremendous benefit out of it i've gotten tremendous benefit out of it i mean part of the reason i wanted to i mean part of the reason i wanted to i mean part of the reason i wanted to start it was so i didn't start it was so i didn't start it was so i didn't quit and i actually launched something quit and i actually launched something quit and i actually launched something why is it so hard to launch something why is it so hard to launch something why is it so hard to launch something anyway part of the reason i wanted to anyway part of the reason i wanted to anyway part of the reason i wanted to start it was just to get over the finish start it was just to get over the finish start it was just to get over the finish line line line and keep chatting with michelle since we and keep chatting with michelle since we and keep chatting with michelle since we couldn't see each other in person couldn't see each other in person couldn't see each other in person anymore

anymore anymore but i feel like it's been tremendously but i feel like it's been tremendously but i feel like it's been tremendously beneficial in terms of beneficial in terms of beneficial in terms of weekly accountability in terms of weekly accountability in terms of weekly accountability in terms of like just more interaction with people like just more interaction with people like just more interaction with people on the internet on the internet on the internet there's been like this whole community there's been like this whole community there's been like this whole community of people i didn't know existed of people i didn't know existed of people i didn't know existed something i noticed when i was listening something i noticed when i was listening something i noticed when i was listening to all these other bootstrap podcasts to all these other bootstrap podcasts to all these other bootstrap podcasts they'd always talk about their they'd always talk about their they'd always talk about their they had some word for them they're like they had some word for them they're like they had some word for them they're like they're mentor groups they have a better they're mentor groups they have a better they're mentor groups they have a better word word word what do they call themselves those what do they call themselves those what do they call themselves those groups yes that's it groups yes that's it groups yes that's it i was like why is everyone in a i was like why is everyone in a i was like why is everyone in a mastermind where's my mastermind mastermind where's my mastermind mastermind where's my mastermind and so i found michelle and she's like and so i found michelle and she's like and so i found michelle and she's like she and the random people on twitter she and the random people on twitter she and the random people on twitter have become like have become like have become like my mastermind group and it's spectacular my mastermind group and it's spectacular my mastermind group and it's spectacular it's been so much fun it's been so much fun it's been so much fun yeah yeah i like i like what you call yeah yeah i like i like what you call yeah yeah i like i like what you call that out there i i have this phrase i that out there i i have this phrase i that out there i i have this phrase i say with doing things in public creates say with doing things in public creates say with doing things in public creates opportunity opportunity opportunity and whether that's publishing blog posts and whether that's publishing blog posts and whether that's publishing blog posts or starting a podcast or just shipping or starting a podcast or just shipping or starting a podcast or just shipping shipping some code shipping an add-on to shipping some code shipping an add-on to shipping some code shipping an add-on to whatever whatever whatever um it has never ceased to amaze me the um it has never ceased to amaze me the um it has never ceased to amaze me the number of people that i have met number of people that i have met number of people that i have met because they start shipping things and because they start shipping things and because they start shipping things and a lot of it is podcasting i look at a a lot of it is podcasting i look at a a lot of it is podcasting i look at a lot of the early lot of the early lot of the early um just the early friends that i made um just the early friends that i made um just the early friends that i made were through microconf and then people were through microconf and then people were through microconf and then people starting their podcast starting their podcast starting their podcast a lot of the early like angel a lot of the early like angel a lot of the early like angel investments when i first started angel investments when i first started angel investments when i first started angel investing where people was like jordan investing where people was like jordan investing where people was like jordan gaul with kart hook because he had gaul with kart hook because he had gaul with kart hook because he had bootstrapped web bootstrapped web bootstrapped web there was justin mcgill with lead fuse there was justin mcgill with lead fuse there was justin mcgill with lead fuse because he had zero to scale i believe because he had zero to scale i believe because he had zero to scale i believe their podcast was their podcast was their podcast was um i don't know there's just something um i don't know there's just something um i don't know there's just something about it that it feels about it that it feels about it that it feels when you're listening i think it always when you're listening i think it always when you're listening i think it always feels feels feels it always felt to me like will i ever be

it always felt to me like will i ever be it always felt to me like will i ever be able to to able to to able to to to do this or it's like this coveted to do this or it's like this coveted to do this or it's like this coveted spot and then once you start doing it spot and then once you start doing it spot and then once you start doing it you're like wow i'm kind of in the in you're like wow i'm kind of in the in you're like wow i'm kind of in the in crew already it was way crew already it was way crew already it was way it was way less work and way easier i it was way less work and way easier i it was way less work and way easier i think than think than think than than i thought because there just aren't than i thought because there just aren't than i thought because there just aren't that many people who are doing what the that many people who are doing what the that many people who are doing what the two of you do two of you do two of you do which is to get on the mic every week which is to get on the mic every week which is to get on the mic every week and to do it you know even eight months and to do it you know even eight months and to do it you know even eight months most people don't last that long most people don't last that long most people don't last that long and so um you know i think you should and so um you know i think you should and so um you know i think you should kind of pat yourselves on the back for kind of pat yourselves on the back for kind of pat yourselves on the back for for making it this far i am curious for making it this far i am curious for making it this far i am curious colleen you're sharing revenue right now colleen you're sharing revenue right now colleen you're sharing revenue right now and you're sharing progress and the and you're sharing progress and the and you're sharing progress and the transparencies transparencies transparencies is awesome because it allows you to is awesome because it allows you to is awesome because it allows you to really follow your story really follow your story really follow your story what i've seen i've seen a pattern where what i've seen i've seen a pattern where what i've seen i've seen a pattern where folks are transparent to a point and folks are transparent to a point and folks are transparent to a point and then when they hit they usually hit 10 then when they hit they usually hit 10 then when they hit they usually hit 10 or 20k and then it's like or 20k and then it's like or 20k and then it's like i don't think i'm going to do this i don't think i'm going to do this i don't think i'm going to do this anymore you know i i'm going to kind of anymore you know i i'm going to kind of anymore you know i i'm going to kind of shut it down have you given any shut it down have you given any shut it down have you given any thought to that about whether whether thought to that about whether whether thought to that about whether whether you'll continue to share perpetually you'll continue to share perpetually you'll continue to share perpetually whether you'll decide when as you get whether you'll decide when as you get whether you'll decide when as you get there or whether there is a mark where there or whether there is a mark where there or whether there is a mark where it's like well i want to start hiring it's like well i want to start hiring it's like well i want to start hiring employees and people are employees and people are employees and people are if you end up doing that you know or if you end up doing that you know or if you end up doing that you know or once i'm making my full-time living off once i'm making my full-time living off once i'm making my full-time living off of this it's it's of this it's it's of this it's it's perhaps too dangerous may invite perhaps too dangerous may invite perhaps too dangerous may invite competition whatever reason have you competition whatever reason have you competition whatever reason have you given any thought to uh long given any thought to uh long given any thought to uh long longer term what that transparency might longer term what that transparency might longer term what that transparency might look like so i have not look like so i have not look like so i have not but as you bring up the question it but as you bring up the question it but as you bring up the question it seems to me there's probably not a lot seems to me there's probably not a lot seems to me there's probably not a lot of of of benefit to sharing past a certain point benefit to sharing past a certain point benefit to sharing past a certain point i mean michelle has i mean michelle has i mean michelle has deliberately chosen not to share so she deliberately chosen not to share so she deliberately chosen not to share so she could you know kind of could you know kind of could you know kind of tell us why they made that choice but it tell us why they made that choice but it tell us why they made that choice but it seems like it's so great to share in seems like it's so great to share in seems like it's so great to share in these early days these early days these early days because you get so much bad press because you get so much bad press because you get so much bad press on the internet saying like you're going on the internet saying like you're going on the internet saying like you're going to get 10 000 mrr your first month

to get 10 000 mrr your first month to get 10 000 mrr your first month and that's just not the reality so i and that's just not the reality so i and that's just not the reality so i love being in love being in love being in or sharing their like small mrr growth or sharing their like small mrr growth or sharing their like small mrr growth um but i definitely think there's going um but i definitely think there's going um but i definitely think there's going to be a point where where there's you to be a point where where there's you to be a point where where there's you know it's not value added to the know it's not value added to the know it's not value added to the community anymore community anymore community anymore yeah we have a listener or a yeah we have a listener or a yeah we have a listener or a viewer question from pablo and maybe viewer question from pablo and maybe viewer question from pablo and maybe i'll throw this to michelle i'll throw this to michelle i'll throw this to michelle first and calling you can you can add first and calling you can you can add first and calling you can you can add any additional thoughts any additional thoughts any additional thoughts how much time and or money do you how much time and or money do you how much time and or money do you dedicate to the podcast dedicate to the podcast dedicate to the podcast outside of the time spent on air outside of the time spent on air outside of the time spent on air that's such a good question so um that's such a good question so um that's such a good question so um i guess we'll start at the beginning so i guess we'll start at the beginning so i guess we'll start at the beginning so every week every week every week we record um and we try we record um and we try we record um and we try to keep it to 30 minutes intentionally to keep it to 30 minutes intentionally to keep it to 30 minutes intentionally so that somebody can listen while so that somebody can listen while so that somebody can listen while they're they're they're you know driving to and from the grocery you know driving to and from the grocery you know driving to and from the grocery store or walking the dog or whatever store or walking the dog or whatever store or walking the dog or whatever that is that is that is we block off an hour for that um and we block off an hour for that um and we block off an hour for that um and that includes us like chit chatting that includes us like chit chatting that includes us like chit chatting um like like what people don't hear is um like like what people don't hear is um like like what people don't hear is that like colleen and i having social that like colleen and i having social that like colleen and i having social hour after we get off recording hour after we get off recording hour after we get off recording right um we actually don't prep for the right um we actually don't prep for the right um we actually don't prep for the podcast podcast podcast we did initially and we would like both we did initially and we would like both we did initially and we would like both come into it with something we wanted to come into it with something we wanted to come into it with something we wanted to say and say and say and plan to each talk for 15 minutes and plan to each talk for 15 minutes and plan to each talk for 15 minutes and we found that we were both kind of we found that we were both kind of we found that we were both kind of talking in paragraphs and sounded very talking in paragraphs and sounded very talking in paragraphs and sounded very stilted and something that has been stilted and something that has been stilted and something that has been important to us is that it sounds important to us is that it sounds important to us is that it sounds conversational and and social and conversational and and social and conversational and and social and um and so we found that that that sort

um and so we found that that that sort um and so we found that that that sort of imposing that structure was of imposing that structure was of imposing that structure was inhibiting that um and then so there's inhibiting that um and then so there's inhibiting that um and then so there's editing time and i'll let colleen go editing time and i'll let colleen go editing time and i'll let colleen go into that because she has been handling into that because she has been handling into that because she has been handling that so i'm gonna start that so i'm gonna start that so i'm gonna start um handling that in a few weeks um um handling that in a few weeks um um handling that in a few weeks um and then um there's also the posting and then um there's also the posting and then um there's also the posting time so we have transcripts made time so we have transcripts made time so we have transcripts made from otter.ai which is super fast but from otter.ai which is super fast but from otter.ai which is super fast but like you need to clean it up a little like you need to clean it up a little like you need to clean it up a little bit bit bit but i do a pre-listen uh before we but i do a pre-listen uh before we but i do a pre-listen uh before we publish anyway and it's publish anyway and it's publish anyway and it's you know it it's not nothing i can't do you know it it's not nothing i can't do you know it it's not nothing i can't do in that time i'm listening in that time i'm listening in that time i'm listening um so i don't know that that probably um so i don't know that that probably um so i don't know that that probably takes me about takes me about takes me about an hour 45 minutes or an hour total an hour 45 minutes or an hour total an hour 45 minutes or an hour total um and then in terms of costs um and then in terms of costs um and then in terms of costs we have a subscription to transistor we have a subscription to transistor we have a subscription to transistor um and i think that's what twenty um and i think that's what twenty um and i think that's what twenty dollars a month or something like that dollars a month or something like that dollars a month or something like that yeah it takes me about an hour to edit i yeah it takes me about an hour to edit i yeah it takes me about an hour to edit i was slower in the beginning was slower in the beginning was slower in the beginning um because i didn't know what i was um because i didn't know what i was um because i didn't know what i was doing but i would say probably an hour doing but i would say probably an hour doing but i would say probably an hour for each of us outside of the hour we for each of us outside of the hour we for each of us outside of the hour we spend to record spend to record spend to record so it's really low you know it's low so it's really low you know it's low so it's really low you know it's low maintenance yeah that's that's been my experience yeah that's that's been my experience too and in fact we too and in fact we too and in fact we when we started serbs for the rest of us when we started serbs for the rest of us when we started serbs for the rest of us we edited the first i think 15 or 20 we edited the first i think 15 or 20 we edited the first i think 15 or 20 episodes and then we found an episodes and then we found an episodes and then we found an editor on upwork which is called what editor on upwork which is called what editor on upwork which is called what was it called back then was it called back then was it called back then remember elance yeah elance no eat remember elance yeah elance no eat remember elance yeah elance no eat lantern lantern lantern oh death oh man oh desk thank you that's oh death oh man oh desk thank you that's oh death oh man oh desk thank you that's called odesk yeah called odesk yeah called odesk yeah oh my goodness yeah anyways upwork um 15 oh my goodness yeah anyways upwork um 15 oh my goodness yeah anyways upwork um 15 bucks an hour

bucks an hour bucks an hour this was before podcast motor right this this was before podcast motor right this this was before podcast motor right this was before the productized you know was before the productized you know was before the productized you know editing editing editing services or we would have just gone with services or we would have just gone with services or we would have just gone with with them um with them um with them um so i think similar to to you guys so i think similar to to you guys so i think similar to to you guys or to similar to the two of you um or to similar to the two of you um or to similar to the two of you um i spend time on the mic and then and i spend time on the mic and then and i spend time on the mic and then and for me it's only about i made an for me it's only about i made an for me it's only about i made an additional half hour of prep because additional half hour of prep because additional half hour of prep because i pay for all the other stuff you know i pay for all the other stuff you know i pay for all the other stuff you know and and pot to give you an example and and pot to give you an example and and pot to give you an example because um because um because um pablo said you know i have a friend i pablo said you know i have a friend i pablo said you know i have a friend i have a similar regular conversation with have a similar regular conversation with have a similar regular conversation with similar to software social and i've been similar to software social and i've been similar to software social and i've been thinking of turning it into a podcast thinking of turning it into a podcast thinking of turning it into a podcast too too too so he's kind of trying to think through so he's kind of trying to think through so he's kind of trying to think through yeah so it's not yeah so it's not yeah so it's not you know if you have a bit of budget you you know if you have a bit of budget you you know if you have a bit of budget you can throw it at at 75 bucks an episode can throw it at at 75 bucks an episode can throw it at at 75 bucks an episode for like podcast motor to do your for like podcast motor to do your for like podcast motor to do your editing and posting editing and posting editing and posting uh or you can do it you know on your own uh or you can do it you know on your own uh or you can do it you know on your own like like like like colleen and michelle are doing but like colleen and michelle are doing but like colleen and michelle are doing but it i don't feel like it's the it i don't feel like it's the it i don't feel like it's the insurmountable amount of work especially insurmountable amount of work especially insurmountable amount of work especially if you do keep the episode shorter if you do keep the episode shorter if you do keep the episode shorter start going to 45 or a minute or an hour start going to 45 or a minute or an hour start going to 45 or a minute or an hour episodes episodes episodes it can it can get a little more it can it can get a little more it can it can get a little more cumbersome but cumbersome but cumbersome but honestly the thing that takes the most honestly the thing that takes the most honestly the thing that takes the most time is talking to people time is talking to people time is talking to people on twitter the day when an episode goes on twitter the day when an episode goes on twitter the day when an episode goes live live live and that's also the most fun part about and that's also the most fun part about and that's also the most fun part about it too it too it too is just chatting with people about what is just chatting with people about what is just chatting with people about what they thought and what it made them think they thought and what it made them think they thought and what it made them think of and of and of and questions they have like that's that's questions they have like that's that's questions they have like that's that's one of the best parts as colleen one of the best parts as colleen one of the best parts as colleen mentioned earlier when you so the day it mentioned earlier when you so the day it mentioned earlier when you so the day it goes live you you tweet the episode out goes live you you tweet the episode out goes live you you tweet the episode out and then do folks respond and say hey and then do folks respond and say hey and then do folks respond and say hey this this helped me like do you have a

this this helped me like do you have a this this helped me like do you have a cool example in the past cool example in the past cool example in the past month or something of someone like month or something of someone like month or something of someone like bringing something up specific that you bringing something up specific that you bringing something up specific that you felt like felt like felt like our work here is done achievement our work here is done achievement our work here is done achievement unlocked unlocked unlocked yeah i mean all the time pretty much yeah i mean all the time pretty much yeah i mean all the time pretty much every episode we're getting positive every episode we're getting positive every episode we're getting positive comments from people comments from people comments from people on twitter just yesterday we had someone on twitter just yesterday we had someone on twitter just yesterday we had someone send us an email send us an email send us an email um thanking us for for doing it um um thanking us for for doing it um um thanking us for for doing it um it's i have been so moved by it's i have been so moved by it's i have been so moved by how willing people are to how willing people are to how willing people are to uh show us that they enjoy it it's it's uh show us that they enjoy it it's it's uh show us that they enjoy it it's it's so nice now correct me if i'm wrong michelle i now correct me if i'm wrong michelle i don't think you've had any guests on don't think you've had any guests on don't think you've had any guests on yet um wait did you ever plan to yet um wait did you ever plan to yet um wait did you ever plan to have you who came on so we had alex have you who came on so we had alex have you who came on so we had alex hillman on hillman on hillman on in september and then in september and then in september and then we had um michelle pencic from we had um michelle pencic from we had um michelle pencic from squared away which is going to be that squared away which is going to be that squared away which is going to be that does military spouse virtual assistants does military spouse virtual assistants does military spouse virtual assistants and then um and then um and then um we also had danielle simpson co-founder we also had danielle simpson co-founder we also had danielle simpson co-founder of feedback panda on of feedback panda on of feedback panda on a couple of months ago um about a month a couple of months ago um about a month a couple of months ago um about a month ago and then we have another guest ago and then we have another guest ago and then we have another guest coming up in a few weeks coming up in a few weeks coming up in a few weeks um calling us moving and so um and this um calling us moving and so um and this um calling us moving and so um and this time i'm really excited time i'm really excited time i'm really excited um it's a listener who's joining us and um it's a listener who's joining us and um it's a listener who's joining us and we're going to workshop we're going to workshop we're going to workshop their business um that's cool so their business um that's cool so their business um that's cool so so i'm really excited yeah we're we're so i'm really excited yeah we're we're so i'm really excited yeah we're we're very deliberate very deliberate very deliberate about how we do guests i get pitches for about how we do guests i get pitches for about how we do guests i get pitches for guests guests guests all the time um and

all the time um and all the time um and we are only bringing people on when we we are only bringing people on when we we are only bringing people on when we feel like it's something that really feel like it's something that really feel like it's something that really aligns with our aligns with our aligns with our mission for the podcast um mission for the podcast um mission for the podcast um which is which is really fun like we which is which is really fun like we which is which is really fun like we bring people on because we think they bring people on because we think they bring people on because we think they need more visibility or because they're need more visibility or because they're need more visibility or because they're saying something that saying something that saying something that people need to hear um it's people need to hear um it's people need to hear um it's it's it's been really fun when we've had it's it's been really fun when we've had it's it's been really fun when we've had guests on and can be so deliberate about guests on and can be so deliberate about guests on and can be so deliberate about it it it that's the thing it's nice that the way that's the thing it's nice that the way that's the thing it's nice that the way you're you've set up your format you're you've set up your format you're you've set up your format is the two of you can just talk every is the two of you can just talk every is the two of you can just talk every week and so you have the luxury of just week and so you have the luxury of just week and so you have the luxury of just only hand picking the guests that you only hand picking the guests that you only hand picking the guests that you want on that really have something to want on that really have something to want on that really have something to say at the moment you want them to say say at the moment you want them to say say at the moment you want them to say it and it and it and i that's something that i've enjoyed um i that's something that i've enjoyed um i that's something that i've enjoyed um with with with my podcast as well is that we didn't my podcast as well is that we didn't my podcast as well is that we didn't have guests on for a few hundred have guests on for a few hundred have guests on for a few hundred episodes and then we had a bunch of episodes and then we had a bunch of episodes and then we had a bunch of guests on and i didn't really like guests on and i didn't really like guests on and i didn't really like either of those extremes either of those extremes either of those extremes and and being able to maybe have a guest and and being able to maybe have a guest and and being able to maybe have a guest on every you know once a month or twice on every you know once a month or twice on every you know once a month or twice a month i think is is a nice a month i think is is a nice a month i think is is a nice is a nice balance oh okay we're having is a nice balance oh okay we're having is a nice balance oh okay we're having uh having some uh having some uh having some questions and comments coming in from questions and comments coming in from questions and comments coming in from the audience i wanna the audience i wanna the audience i wanna and i think colleen's gonna be so hey and i think colleen's gonna be so hey and i think colleen's gonna be so hey okay thanks for thanks for joining us okay thanks for thanks for joining us okay thanks for thanks for joining us again yeah again yeah again yeah um so maybe we'll maybe we'll start with um so maybe we'll maybe we'll start with um so maybe we'll maybe we'll start with colleen on on this one since i just colleen on on this one since i just colleen on on this one since i just asked of michelle asked of michelle asked of michelle uh james takulski he says i believe uh james takulski he says i believe uh james takulski he says i believe producer xander is at his quote as well producer xander is at his quote as well producer xander is at his quote as well he says i heart he says i heart he says i heart software social exclamation mark so a software social exclamation mark so a software social exclamation mark so a little little bit of left word there little little bit of left word there little little bit of left word there and then and then he says how do and then and then he says how do and then and then he says how do or how did you foster a growth mindset

or how did you foster a growth mindset or how did you foster a growth mindset how did you develop the mindset to ship how did you develop the mindset to ship how did you develop the mindset to ship things without the need for immediate things without the need for immediate things without the need for immediate payoff philosophy like it payoff philosophy like it payoff philosophy like it that's tough i mean when he says that that's tough i mean when he says that that's tough i mean when he says that i'm like wait do i have a i'm like wait do i have a i'm like wait do i have a is that can i do that yeah exactly is that can i do that yeah exactly is that can i do that yeah exactly um man i have struggled to ship um man i have struggled to ship um man i have struggled to ship something and so i think something and so i think something and so i think like i mean social accountability helps like i mean social accountability helps like i mean social accountability helps a lot like when i learned i'm a lot like when i learned i'm a lot like when i learned i'm a career changer so i'm self-taught when a career changer so i'm self-taught when a career changer so i'm self-taught when i learned a code i did 100 days of code i learned a code i did 100 days of code i learned a code i did 100 days of code and i got involved in as many and i got involved in as many and i got involved in as many coding communities as i could because coding communities as i could because coding communities as i could because like that social accountability really like that social accountability really like that social accountability really makes a difference and i feel like makes a difference and i feel like makes a difference and i feel like shipping a product it's been the same shipping a product it's been the same shipping a product it's been the same thing thing thing i hadn't really found a good community i hadn't really found a good community i hadn't really found a good community um um um although i had been trying so michelle although i had been trying so michelle although i had been trying so michelle and i i don't want to say we started one and i i don't want to say we started one and i i don't want to say we started one but it kind of feels that way because but it kind of feels that way because but it kind of feels that way because now i have michelle who i talk to every now i have michelle who i talk to every now i have michelle who i talk to every week week week that's been very successful and can keep that's been very successful and can keep that's been very successful and can keep me motivated then i have this also this me motivated then i have this also this me motivated then i have this also this random group of people on random group of people on random group of people on on the internet um who tweet about their on the internet um who tweet about their on the internet um who tweet about their success and their mrr and success and their mrr and success and their mrr and they're all building in public and so they're all building in public and so they're all building in public and so i'm building in public so just like i'm building in public so just like i'm building in public so just like seeing that has really helped me ship seeing that has really helped me ship seeing that has really helped me ship and not just ship right because this is and not just ship right because this is and not just ship right because this is the developer problem is we ship the developer problem is we ship the developer problem is we ship something and we think we're done something and we think we're done something and we think we're done so it's like ship and now you know so it's like ship and now you know so it's like ship and now you know market i i think uh you know something with you

i i think uh you know something with you can see with colleen's story and with can see with colleen's story and with can see with colleen's story and with ours is that we started with things we ours is that we started with things we ours is that we started with things we needed ourselves needed ourselves needed ourselves and i find that motivation is so much and i find that motivation is so much and i find that motivation is so much easier to come by easier to come by easier to come by when you're not building something for when you're not building something for when you're not building something for other people but really you're just other people but really you're just other people but really you're just building it because it's a pain point building it because it's a pain point building it because it's a pain point that you have in your own life that you have in your own life that you have in your own life and worse comes to worst nobody and worse comes to worst nobody and worse comes to worst nobody uses it but you use it and you have uses it but you use it and you have uses it but you use it and you have solved a pain in your life whether solved a pain in your life whether solved a pain in your life whether that's something that took you five that's something that took you five that's something that took you five minutes or five days minutes or five days minutes or five days um you have removed that frustration um you have removed that frustration um you have removed that frustration from your life and so maybe this product from your life and so maybe this product from your life and so maybe this product is something that becomes something that is something that becomes something that is something that becomes something that other people other people other people use and you grow it or maybe you've just use and you grow it or maybe you've just use and you grow it or maybe you've just removed frustration from your life and removed frustration from your life and removed frustration from your life and that frees you up to think that frees you up to think that frees you up to think about something else you could improve about something else you could improve about something else you could improve and maybe that will become and maybe that will become and maybe that will become something that other people will use something that other people will use something that other people will use yeah and the only thing i want to add yeah and the only thing i want to add yeah and the only thing i want to add there was don't i mean there was don't i mean there was don't i mean there's so much information and advice there's so much information and advice there's so much information and advice on the internet that is 100 in conflict on the internet that is 100 in conflict on the internet that is 100 in conflict like people told me do not solve your like people told me do not solve your like people told me do not solve your own problem i kept hearing that over and own problem i kept hearing that over and own problem i kept hearing that over and over they were like go do the whole over they were like go do the whole over they were like go do the whole pre-sales and the marketing and i don't pre-sales and the marketing and i don't pre-sales and the marketing and i don't i mean that's great i just didn't know i mean that's great i just didn't know i mean that's great i just didn't know how to do that how to do that how to do that and maybe my next product i'll do that and maybe my next product i'll do that and maybe my next product i'll do that and then michelle was like yeah and then michelle was like yeah and then michelle was like yeah that's cool you should just make the that's cool you should just make the that's cool you should just make the thing you want and then if no one buys thing you want and then if no one buys thing you want and then if no one buys it you have the thing you want it you have the thing you want it you have the thing you want and that for me the pre-sale thing just and that for me the pre-sale thing just and that for me the pre-sale thing just didn't work for me i couldn't wrap my didn't work for me i couldn't wrap my didn't work for me i couldn't wrap my brain around how to do that brain around how to do that brain around how to do that and so if i had just continued to follow and so if i had just continued to follow and so if i had just continued to follow that advice i probably wouldn't have that advice i probably wouldn't have that advice i probably wouldn't have gotten anywhere gotten anywhere gotten anywhere so i think different advice is so i think different advice is so i think different advice is appropriate for different people and appropriate for different people and appropriate for different people and different skill sets too

different skill sets too different skill sets too yeah wholeheartedly agree that's yeah wholeheartedly agree that's yeah wholeheartedly agree that's something i've been i've been harping on something i've been i've been harping on something i've been i've been harping on for years for years for years is don't listen to everyone who's is don't listen to everyone who's is don't listen to everyone who's talking about how to talking about how to talking about how to do what you want to do how to start a do what you want to do how to start a do what you want to do how to start a successful saf app or you know software successful saf app or you know software successful saf app or you know software product product product find the one or two maybe three tops who find the one or two maybe three tops who find the one or two maybe three tops who really resonate with you and who you really resonate with you and who you really resonate with you and who you feel like their approach feel like their approach feel like their approach matches with you or like they're where matches with you or like they're where matches with you or like they're where you want to be you want to be you want to be i have um some i'll call them i have um some i'll call them i have um some i'll call them virtual mentors or people who i look up virtual mentors or people who i look up virtual mentors or people who i look up to to to people like jason koa and heaton sean people like jason koa and heaton sean people like jason koa and heaton sean says but when i look at like i don't says but when i look at like i don't says but when i look at like i don't jason cohen runs uh wp engine or you jason cohen runs uh wp engine or you jason cohen runs uh wp engine or you know he's go found out know he's go found out know he's go found out i don't have the the desire to build uh i don't have the the desire to build uh i don't have the the desire to build uh essentially what is going to soon be a essentially what is going to soon be a essentially what is going to soon be a billion literally a billion dollar billion literally a billion dollar billion literally a billion dollar business with business with business with 500 employees already and you know 500 employees already and you know 500 employees already and you know they've taken enormous capital they've taken enormous capital they've taken enormous capital that's what he wants to do and he's that's what he wants to do and he's that's what he wants to do and he's doing an amazing job at it doing an amazing job at it doing an amazing job at it and but i don't particularly have that and but i don't particularly have that and but i don't particularly have that desire myself desire myself desire myself now i can take and choose some of the now i can take and choose some of the now i can take and choose some of the stuff when he talks about bootstrapping stuff when he talks about bootstrapping stuff when he talks about bootstrapping you know and use that in my own you know and use that in my own you know and use that in my own portfolio or in my own kind of mental portfolio or in my own kind of mental portfolio or in my own kind of mental models models models but in addition i think finding someone but in addition i think finding someone but in addition i think finding someone who who who who who who has done it hopefully done it a couple has done it hopefully done it a couple has done it hopefully done it a couple times because times because times because often times it's um well you have to often times it's um well you have to often times it's um well you have to determine whether you know determine whether you know determine whether you know did they did they have a lot of luck or did they did they have a lot of luck or did they did they have a lot of luck or do they do they really have the um do they do they really have the um do they do they really have the um you know the chops and have they you you know the chops and have they you you know the chops and have they you know have they really executed on this know have they really executed on this know have they really executed on this for a long time and finding some someone for a long time and finding some someone for a long time and finding some someone that resonates with you and and someone that resonates with you and and someone that resonates with you and and someone that i think you respect that i think you respect that i think you respect i think the other like i've heard folks i think the other like i've heard folks i think the other like i've heard folks idolize you know idolize you know idolize you know whoever you want you know whoever you

whoever you want you know whoever you whoever you want you know whoever you want to say who's a business person who want to say who's a business person who want to say who's a business person who maybe maybe maybe some some people might not like an elon some some people might not like an elon some some people might not like an elon musk or jeff bezos musk or jeff bezos musk or jeff bezos and it's like if you're not willing to and it's like if you're not willing to and it's like if you're not willing to do what they were willing to do to get do what they were willing to do to get do what they were willing to do to get where they are where they are where they are then maybe that's not the path you want then maybe that's not the path you want then maybe that's not the path you want to travel either right maybe they're not to travel either right maybe they're not to travel either right maybe they're not the folks to idolize if you want to the folks to idolize if you want to the folks to idolize if you want to build build build a you know 500 000 million dollar a you know 500 000 million dollar a you know 500 000 million dollar bootstrap startup should i really be bootstrap startup should i really be bootstrap startup should i really be listening to listening to listening to either of them even though yeah arguably either of them even though yeah arguably either of them even though yeah arguably they're great they're great business they're great they're great business they're great they're great business people um people um people um and they've built amazing empires it and they've built amazing empires it and they've built amazing empires it just doesn't feel like it necessarily just doesn't feel like it necessarily just doesn't feel like it necessarily uh fits so i i like what you're saying uh fits so i i like what you're saying uh fits so i i like what you're saying about there are about there are about there are at any given time there are a thousand at any given time there are a thousand at any given time there are a thousand people telling you how to start your app people telling you how to start your app people telling you how to start your app and who how are you gonna narrow it down and who how are you gonna narrow it down and who how are you gonna narrow it down you know how are you gonna figure out you know how are you gonna figure out you know how are you gonna figure out who resonates with you and what what who resonates with you and what what who resonates with you and what what advice to take do you guys have other i advice to take do you guys have other i advice to take do you guys have other i mean michelle do you have mean michelle do you have mean michelle do you have other thoughts on that topic of like how other thoughts on that topic of like how other thoughts on that topic of like how you know how you you know how you you know how you uh maybe filter advice that that you uh maybe filter advice that that you uh maybe filter advice that that you take or how to um narrow it down to who take or how to um narrow it down to who take or how to um narrow it down to who the folks are that you really listen to the folks are that you really listen to the folks are that you really listen to and trust and trust and trust uh on the internet it's funny i don't uh on the internet it's funny i don't uh on the internet it's funny i don't actually read a lot of the actually read a lot of the actually read a lot of the the kind of advice that colleen does the kind of advice that colleen does the kind of advice that colleen does like i'm kind of trying to think about like i'm kind of trying to think about like i'm kind of trying to think about you know who so who are my like business you know who so who are my like business you know who so who are my like business heroes and i think of like daniel heroes and i think of like daniel heroes and i think of like daniel kahneman kahneman kahneman the author of thinking fast and slow the author of thinking fast and slow the author of thinking fast and slow like i tend to gravitate towards like i tend to gravitate towards like i tend to gravitate towards books that give me frameworks and mental books that give me frameworks and mental books that give me frameworks and mental models for models for models for thinking um and finding out how to make thinking um and finding out how to make thinking um and finding out how to make better decisions better decisions better decisions um and i i do read a lot of books on um and i i do read a lot of books on um and i i do read a lot of books on customer research um because i'm always customer research um because i'm always customer research um because i'm always trying to improve my

trying to improve my trying to improve my my chops there um but yeah i mean my chops there um but yeah i mean my chops there um but yeah i mean colleen and i are so opposite on that colleen and i are so opposite on that colleen and i are so opposite on that but i think but i think but i think um i think we're now both in agreement um i think we're now both in agreement um i think we're now both in agreement that that hustle porn is pretty toxic that that hustle porn is pretty toxic that that hustle porn is pretty toxic uh and that there's a lot of people out uh and that there's a lot of people out uh and that there's a lot of people out there who are as you're saying selling there who are as you're saying selling there who are as you're saying selling advice that doesn't necessarily advice that doesn't necessarily advice that doesn't necessarily relate to the bootstrap founder no i think i think one of the things no i think i think one of the things michelle mentioned michelle mentioned michelle mentioned is she consumes a lot of books is she consumes a lot of books is she consumes a lot of books and originally when i started i would and originally when i started i would and originally when i started i would just read a lot of blogs and they're just read a lot of blogs and they're just read a lot of blogs and they're both useful ways to get information both useful ways to get information both useful ways to get information but you know thanks to her but you know thanks to her but you know thanks to her recommendation i've been reading some of recommendation i've been reading some of recommendation i've been reading some of these books she's recommended and i these books she's recommended and i these books she's recommended and i think that think that think that you know those those have really you know those those have really you know those those have really resonated with me resonated with me resonated with me a little bit more i think when you start a little bit more i think when you start a little bit more i think when you start to feel like you're never gonna make it to feel like you're never gonna make it to feel like you're never gonna make it you start to get on the internet and you start to get on the internet and you start to get on the internet and read things on the internet read things on the internet read things on the internet and uh that can lead you down maybe not and uh that can lead you down maybe not and uh that can lead you down maybe not the most productive path the most productive path the most productive path here here i agree colleen and michelle here here i agree colleen and michelle here here i agree colleen and michelle thank you so much for joining me today thank you so much for joining me today thank you so much for joining me today and thanks for starting software social and thanks for starting software social and thanks for starting software social i'm being nominated for the best podcast i'm being nominated for the best podcast i'm being nominated for the best podcast in micro confess podcast awards after uh in micro confess podcast awards after uh in micro confess podcast awards after uh what six seven months on on the air is what six seven months on on the air is what six seven months on on the air is uh it's pretty cool uh it's pretty cool uh it's pretty cool so folks again wanna find you on twitter so folks again wanna find you on twitter so folks again wanna find you on twitter um um um at mjw hanson with an e and at at mjw hanson with an e and at at mjw hanson with an e and at lea burger thanks for joining me

lea burger thanks for joining me lea burger thanks for joining me thanks for having us and with that we'll wrap up for the day and with that we'll wrap up for the day oh oh oh yeah am i still live guys i'm having an yeah am i still live guys i'm having an yeah am i still live guys i'm having an internet problem sorry about that internet problem sorry about that internet problem sorry about that um again microconf remote.com cheat um again microconf remote.com cheat um again microconf remote.com cheat codes for early stage codes for early stage codes for early stage marketing strategies we have an marketing strategies we have an marketing strategies we have an interactive video game video game interactive video game video game interactive video game video game environment environment environment that is pretty dang cool um that is pretty dang cool um that is pretty dang cool um so i would encourage you to go check it so i would encourage you to go check it so i would encourage you to go check it out out out uh micrographconnect.com you'll see the uh micrographconnect.com you'll see the uh micrographconnect.com you'll see the dates on the screen it's march 23rd dates on the screen it's march 23rd dates on the screen it's march 23rd through 25th through 25th through 25th 11 a.m to 12 30 eastern time 11 a.m to 12 30 eastern time 11 a.m to 12 30 eastern time there is also there's an interactive there is also there's an interactive there is also there's an interactive pass and then there's a video only pass and then there's a video only pass and then there's a video only passed if you just want to do the live passed if you just want to do the live passed if you just want to do the live stream but i really you stream but i really you stream but i really you you should check out this thing we've i you should check out this thing we've i you should check out this thing we've i think again producer sander has kind of think again producer sander has kind of think again producer sander has kind of outdone himself on this one outdone himself on this one outdone himself on this one microphone mastermind applications are microphone mastermind applications are microphone mastermind applications are open again open again open again periodically so every several months we periodically so every several months we periodically so every several months we open them so microcomp masterminds.com open them so microcomp masterminds.com open them so microcomp masterminds.com if you want to be paired up in a if you want to be paired up in a if you want to be paired up in a mastermind and thanks again to hey mastermind and thanks again to hey mastermind and thanks again to hey and stripe as always for being our and stripe as always for being our and stripe as always for being our headline headline headline partners for the year thank you so much partners for the year thank you so much partners for the year thank you so much i'll see you in two weeks