The AppSumo Treasure Trove with Ruben Gamez

So we're going to kick the day off with So we're going to kick the day off with a talk from Ruben Gomez. It's a a talk from Ruben Gomez. It's a a talk from Ruben Gomez. It's a conversation between he and I about his conversation between he and I about his conversation between he and I about his app Sumo Deal. Ruben is such a He's such app Sumo Deal. Ruben is such a He's such app Sumo Deal. Ruben is such a He's such a good um framework thinker. He's so a good um framework thinker. He's so a good um framework thinker. He's so deliberate with his decisions that uh deliberate with his decisions that uh deliberate with his decisions that uh you know, yeah, I really, really wanted you know, yeah, I really, really wanted you know, yeah, I really, really wanted him to be part of MicroConf Remote and him to be part of MicroConf Remote and him to be part of MicroConf Remote and to talk about how um really how he to talk about how um really how he to talk about how um really how he decided to do an AppSumo deal, to talk decided to do an AppSumo deal, to talk decided to do an AppSumo deal, to talk about maybe when to think about not about maybe when to think about not about maybe when to think about not doing an AppSumo deal, and then he goes doing an AppSumo deal, and then he goes doing an AppSumo deal, and then he goes through all the numbers, the revenue, through all the numbers, the revenue, through all the numbers, the revenue, the number of sign-ups, number of the number of sign-ups, number of the number of sign-ups, number of support requests. It really wound up support requests. It really wound up support requests. It really wound up being good. being good. being good. I think we will dive in. So, let me I think we will dive in. So, let me I think we will dive in. So, let me welcome Ruben Gomez from both BidSketch welcome Ruben Gomez from both BidSketch welcome Ruben Gomez from both BidSketch and now these days he's focused on and now these days he's focused on and now these days he's focused on DocSketch, his electronic signature app. DocSketch, his electronic signature app. DocSketch, his electronic signature app. And let's roll. And let's roll. And let's roll. Ruben Gomez, thank you so much for Ruben Gomez, thank you so much for Ruben Gomez, thank you so much for joining me here today at MicroConf joining me here today at MicroConf joining me here today at MicroConf Remote. Remote. Remote. Happy to be here. Thanks. Happy to be here. Thanks. Happy to be here. Thanks. So for folks who don't know, you are a So for folks who don't know, you are a So for folks who don't know, you are a multi-time SaaS founder. You still have multi-time SaaS founder. You still have multi-time SaaS founder. You still have BidSketch, which is proposal software, BidSketch, which is proposal software, BidSketch, which is proposal software, and then DocSketch is what you're and then DocSketch is what you're and then DocSketch is what you're working on these days, and that is working on these days, and that is working on these days, and that is electronic signature app. So folks, you electronic signature app. So folks, you electronic signature app. So folks, you know, who have used DocuSign or know, who have used DocuSign or know, who have used DocuSign or HelloSign will have a pretty good idea HelloSign will have a pretty good idea HelloSign will have a pretty good idea of what DocSketch Obviously, you have of what DocSketch Obviously, you have of what DocSketch Obviously, you have some differentiators from from those some differentiators from from those some differentiators from from those tools, but that's that's the gist.

tools, but that's that's the gist. tools, but that's that's the gist. Yep. Uh exactly right. Yep. Uh exactly right. Yep. Uh exactly right. And you ran an AppSumo deal. And you ran an AppSumo deal. And you ran an AppSumo deal. Um when was it? Um when was it? Um when was it? So I was looking at that. It was uh So I was looking at that. It was uh So I was looking at that. It was uh May 2019. May 2019. May 2019. So almost 2 years. So almost 2 years. So almost 2 years. Okay. Couple years ago, yep. And um Okay. Couple years ago, yep. And um Okay. Couple years ago, yep. And um what's been cool is you've been super what's been cool is you've been super what's been cool is you've been super transparent with um a lot of the stuff transparent with um a lot of the stuff transparent with um a lot of the stuff around that AppSumo deal, and probably around that AppSumo deal, and probably around that AppSumo deal, and probably most importantly, rather than I mean, most importantly, rather than I mean, most importantly, rather than I mean, we're going to cover all the numbers and we're going to cover all the numbers and we're going to cover all the numbers and the ins and outs, but you've been the ins and outs, but you've been the ins and outs, but you've been transparent with your thought process of transparent with your thought process of transparent with your thought process of when you should consider what you you when you should consider what you you when you should consider what you you know, the pros and the cons, and here know, the pros and the cons, and here know, the pros and the cons, and here are things I might do differently, and are things I might do differently, and are things I might do differently, and you know, you and I spoke on Startups you know, you and I spoke on Startups you know, you and I spoke on Startups For The Rest Of Us about it and then For The Rest Of Us about it and then For The Rest Of Us about it and then you've actually given some advice to, you've actually given some advice to, you've actually given some advice to, you know, some mutual friends that that you know, some mutual friends that that you know, some mutual friends that that you and I have, some TinySeed batchmates you and I have, some TinySeed batchmates you and I have, some TinySeed batchmates as well, when they are considering as well, when they are considering as well, when they are considering AppSumo deals, you know, what to what to AppSumo deals, you know, what to what to AppSumo deals, you know, what to what to think through. And so, that's really think through. And so, that's really think through. And so, that's really what we want to capture today is the what we want to capture today is the what we want to capture today is the thought process of, you know, things to thought process of, you know, things to thought process of, you know, things to think about, what it actually looked think about, what it actually looked think about, what it actually looked like for you, you know, how many like for you, you know, how many like for you, you know, how many sign-ups did you receive and what amount sign-ups did you receive and what amount sign-ups did you receive and what amount of time, what were the support what was of time, what were the support what was of time, what were the support what was the support burn like, how did you the support burn like, how did you the support burn like, how did you handle that and and how much money you handle that and and how much money you handle that and and how much money you made.

made. made. A lifetime AppSumo deal. So, this is A lifetime AppSumo deal. So, this is A lifetime AppSumo deal. So, this is your decision process and kind of some your decision process and kind of some your decision process and kind of some things that you think about, uh you things that you think about, uh you things that you think about, uh you know, on assuming um know, on assuming um know, on assuming um I know you've you and I have both done I know you've you and I have both done I know you've you and I have both done uh multiple AppSumo deals, I believe. uh multiple AppSumo deals, I believe. uh multiple AppSumo deals, I believe. So, what are your criteria and what So, what are your criteria and what So, what are your criteria and what what's your thought process around this? what's your thought process around this? what's your thought process around this? Yeah, I've uh done two with Bitscorch Yeah, I've uh done two with Bitscorch Yeah, I've uh done two with Bitscorch and one with Docksketch. So, I was and one with Docksketch. So, I was and one with Docksketch. So, I was already pretty comfortable with doing already pretty comfortable with doing already pretty comfortable with doing AppSumo deals. Um AppSumo deals. Um AppSumo deals. Um I there were a few things that I had to I there were a few things that I had to I there were a few things that I had to think through and I and I ended up think through and I and I ended up think through and I and I ended up researching just to make sure that it researching just to make sure that it researching just to make sure that it was the right thing for Docksketch. Uh was the right thing for Docksketch. Uh was the right thing for Docksketch. Uh but AppSumo's changed a lot. So, it's but AppSumo's changed a lot. So, it's but AppSumo's changed a lot. So, it's much more community and uh there are much more community and uh there are much more community and uh there are just certain aspects that are a much just certain aspects that are a much just certain aspects that are a much bigger deal than they used to be. So, um bigger deal than they used to be. So, um bigger deal than they used to be. So, um nowadays, I mean, the main thing that I nowadays, I mean, the main thing that I nowadays, I mean, the main thing that I looked at was looked at was looked at was uh what are we going to get out of it uh what are we going to get out of it uh what are we going to get out of it versus what could we, you know, what versus what could we, you know, what versus what could we, you know, what could end up hurting us long-term or, could end up hurting us long-term or, could end up hurting us long-term or, you know, be tough for us to deal uh you know, be tough for us to deal uh you know, be tough for us to deal uh with long-term. with long-term. with long-term. Um obviously, the money when I talked to Um obviously, the money when I talked to Um obviously, the money when I talked to AppSumo, they they told me that on AppSumo, they they told me that on AppSumo, they they told me that on average, so this has changed too, you average, so this has changed too, you average, so this has changed too, you make more money on the AppSumo deals now make more money on the AppSumo deals now make more money on the AppSumo deals now nowadays, which is pretty cool. Um I nowadays, which is pretty cool. Um I nowadays, which is pretty cool. Um I guess their list is bigger and they go guess their list is bigger and they go guess their list is bigger and they go for a longer period of time. So, they for a longer period of time. So, they for a longer period of time. So, they said that um said that um said that um for us, basically, you know, depends on for us, basically, you know, depends on for us, basically, you know, depends on how much you're charging for the deal.

how much you're charging for the deal. how much you're charging for the deal. Uh it's pretty standard what you get uh Uh it's pretty standard what you get uh Uh it's pretty standard what you get uh for for each I think I was 30% but for for each I think I was 30% but for for each I think I was 30% but nowadays they're doing 25% or something nowadays they're doing 25% or something nowadays they're doing 25% or something like that and then it can change uh like that and then it can change uh like that and then it can change uh after that. after that. after that. But it was basically turned out to be But it was basically turned out to be But it was basically turned out to be about 20 to 50,000 was the average deal. about 20 to 50,000 was the average deal. about 20 to 50,000 was the average deal. You know, in revenue based off based off You know, in revenue based off based off You know, in revenue based off based off they didn't give me that number in they didn't give me that number in they didn't give me that number in revenue. They just give me give me the revenue. They just give me give me the revenue. They just give me give me the number in buys number in buys number in buys and based off of like what we would be and based off of like what we would be and based off of like what we would be charging in our cut and all that stuff. charging in our cut and all that stuff. charging in our cut and all that stuff. That's around what I figured. Okay, if That's around what I figured. Okay, if That's around what I figured. Okay, if we you know, fall in that average will we you know, fall in that average will we you know, fall in that average will will get something like that. will get something like that. will get something like that. And that is net revenue to you. And that is net revenue to you. And that is net revenue to you. Right. Correct. Right. Correct. Right. Correct. That number, right. That number, right. That number, right. Yep. Yep. Yep. Uh Uh Uh then the other thing that we were then the other thing that we were then the other thing that we were thinking about was just like of course thinking about was just like of course thinking about was just like of course the reach. They have a really big list. the reach. They have a really big list. the reach. They have a really big list. There's a lot of buzz going on when There's a lot of buzz going on when There's a lot of buzz going on when you're doing the deal. A lot of people you're doing the deal. A lot of people you're doing the deal. A lot of people see see the deal see your product. They see see the deal see your product. They see see the deal see your product. They try it out. Um you know, helps word of try it out. Um you know, helps word of try it out. Um you know, helps word of mouth, helps other marketing efforts, mouth, helps other marketing efforts, mouth, helps other marketing efforts, things like that. Um exposure also to to things like that. Um exposure also to to things like that. Um exposure also to to other segments and we have a very other segments and we have a very other segments and we have a very horizontal product. So we'd been talking horizontal product. So we'd been talking horizontal product. So we'd been talking to a lot of different segments in the to a lot of different segments in the to a lot of different segments in the market. Talked a little bit to real market. Talked a little bit to real market. Talked a little bit to real estate. More business estate. More business estate. More business offices like accountants, lawyers, offices like accountants, lawyers, offices like accountants, lawyers, things like that.

things like that. things like that. The their deal really just brought The their deal really just brought The their deal really just brought everybody from all sorts of industries. everybody from all sorts of industries. everybody from all sorts of industries. So that was really interesting and So that was really interesting and So that was really interesting and actually way more useful than I thought actually way more useful than I thought actually way more useful than I thought it was going to be. So that was that was it was going to be. So that was that was it was going to be. So that was that was one of the good things. The the bad and one of the good things. The the bad and one of the good things. The the bad and the the reason why a lot of people don't the the reason why a lot of people don't the the reason why a lot of people don't want to want to want to do the deal and I wouldn't even say it's do the deal and I wouldn't even say it's do the deal and I wouldn't even say it's bad as long as you're thinking about it bad as long as you're thinking about it bad as long as you're thinking about it the right way the right way the right way is is is just life it's a lifetime deal. They pay just life it's a lifetime deal. They pay just life it's a lifetime deal. They pay once and then that's it. So then support once and then that's it. So then support once and then that's it. So then support for lifetime, right? The best way that I for lifetime, right? The best way that I for lifetime, right? The best way that I that I've learned to think about that is that I've learned to think about that is that I've learned to think about that is just to think of those as free users. So just to think of those as free users. So just to think of those as free users. So if you're okay with doing having free if you're okay with doing having free if you're okay with doing having free users or doing a free plan for a short users or doing a free plan for a short users or doing a free plan for a short period of time period of time period of time but keeping those users around then um but keeping those users around then um but keeping those users around then um then you'll probably be okay. And that then you'll probably be okay. And that then you'll probably be okay. And that means that means that means that there's there isn't a high cost to there's there isn't a high cost to there's there isn't a high cost to support these users. So, uh that's a support these users. So, uh that's a support these users. So, uh that's a that's a really big deal. You don't want that's a really big deal. You don't want that's a really big deal. You don't want it to be super high touch, right? You it to be super high touch, right? You it to be super high touch, right? You get 3,000 people that you have to get 3,000 people that you have to get 3,000 people that you have to onboard. Uh and you have to set up these onboard. Uh and you have to set up these onboard. Uh and you have to set up these calls to onboard them properly, or else calls to onboard them properly, or else calls to onboard them properly, or else they're going to have a really bad they're going to have a really bad they're going to have a really bad experience.

experience. experience. Um ongoing support is really low. So, Um ongoing support is really low. So, Um ongoing support is really low. So, you know, it's it's not costing you you know, it's it's not costing you you know, it's it's not costing you money in some other way, you know, money in some other way, you know, money in some other way, you know, support or for every support or for every support or for every uh like core action that they take for uh like core action that they take for uh like core action that they take for us, it's sending documents and getting us, it's sending documents and getting us, it's sending documents and getting those signed. There is a tiny tiny tiny those signed. There is a tiny tiny tiny those signed. There is a tiny tiny tiny cost there because we use uh some third cost there because we use uh some third cost there because we use uh some third parties to help with that. parties to help with that. parties to help with that. But it's uh totally okay because we have But it's uh totally okay because we have But it's uh totally okay because we have a viral component. And that's another a viral component. And that's another a viral component. And that's another thing that could be really useful. If thing that could be really useful. If thing that could be really useful. If you have a viral component, then the you have a viral component, then the you have a viral component, then the more people use it, that's why a more people use it, that's why a more people use it, that's why a freemium plan works really well for us, freemium plan works really well for us, freemium plan works really well for us, the better it is. Even without without the better it is. Even without without the better it is. Even without without um um um a free plan or even without uh the viral a free plan or even without uh the viral a free plan or even without uh the viral component, like it's still component, like it's still component, like it's still uh the word of mouth that you could get uh the word of mouth that you could get uh the word of mouth that you could get from that, the buzz, and all that stuff from that, the buzz, and all that stuff from that, the buzz, and all that stuff can be worth it. So, I wouldn't say that can be worth it. So, I wouldn't say that can be worth it. So, I wouldn't say that it's uh necessary, but we weighed all it's uh necessary, but we weighed all it's uh necessary, but we weighed all that out and just decided that it was a that out and just decided that it was a that out and just decided that it was a good good good thing for us to do. good good good thing for us to do. good good good thing for us to do. Right. So, it sounds like some of your Right. So, it sounds like some of your Right. So, it sounds like some of your pros are you do get an influx of cash, pros are you do get an influx of cash, pros are you do get an influx of cash, and for a bootstrapped or mostly and for a bootstrapped or mostly and for a bootstrapped or mostly bootstrapped company, you know, netting bootstrapped company, you know, netting bootstrapped company, you know, netting 20 to 50 grand for 4 weeks of of work, 20 to 50 grand for 4 weeks of of work, 20 to 50 grand for 4 weeks of of work, uh it can it can allow you to hire uh it can it can allow you to hire uh it can it can allow you to hire someone. It can allow you to invest in someone. It can allow you to invest in someone. It can allow you to invest in ads or whatever.

ads or whatever. ads or whatever. Um so, there's there's a benefit there. Um so, there's there's a benefit there. Um so, there's there's a benefit there. The exposure both to the AppSumo The exposure both to the AppSumo The exposure both to the AppSumo audience and also to the broader world audience and also to the broader world audience and also to the broader world can bring in It can It can give you uh can bring in It can It can give you uh can bring in It can It can give you uh backlinks for SEO. It can also bring in backlinks for SEO. It can also bring in backlinks for SEO. It can also bring in I mean, in my experience, there were I mean, in my experience, there were I mean, in my experience, there were folks who signed up outside of the folks who signed up outside of the folks who signed up outside of the AppSumo deal during this time that I AppSumo deal during this time that I AppSumo deal during this time that I really they couldn't attribute like just really they couldn't attribute like just really they couldn't attribute like just the direct traffic went up. I'm not sure the direct traffic went up. I'm not sure the direct traffic went up. I'm not sure if that's still the case these days. if that's still the case these days. if that's still the case these days. It didn't didn't really happen for us on It didn't didn't really happen for us on It didn't didn't really happen for us on uh on uh DocSketch. We did launch uh on uh DocSketch. We did launch uh on uh DocSketch. We did launch shortly after that, and then closed it shortly after that, and then closed it shortly after that, and then closed it back down. But, uh definitely less of an back down. But, uh definitely less of an back down. But, uh definitely less of an effect with BitSketch, that that effect with BitSketch, that that effect with BitSketch, that that happened. happened. happened. That was a big deal. That was a big deal. That was a big deal. And then, you know, in it sounds like in And then, you know, in it sounds like in And then, you know, in it sounds like in thinking about it, thinking about it, thinking about it, if your if your app has heavy onboarding if your if your app has heavy onboarding if your if your app has heavy onboarding at the front or maybe a long time for at the front or maybe a long time for at the front or maybe a long time for people to get value out of it people to get value out of it people to get value out of it and and they're either expensive to and and they're either expensive to and and they're either expensive to onboard or support or there's an onboard or support or there's an onboard or support or there's an incremental cost. And of course, I incremental cost. And of course, I incremental cost. And of course, I always bring up the example of of Drip always bring up the example of of Drip always bring up the example of of Drip where every email we sent was a where every email we sent was a where every email we sent was a particular cost. And onboarding, you particular cost. And onboarding, you particular cost. And onboarding, you know, to truly onboard into a marketing know, to truly onboard into a marketing know, to truly onboard into a marketing automation platform is pretty automation platform is pretty automation platform is pretty time-intensive. So, the Drip would time-intensive. So, the Drip would time-intensive. So, the Drip would probably have been a less probably have been a less probably have been a less Drip is marketing automation software, Drip is marketing automation software, Drip is marketing automation software, obviously. Would have perhaps been a obviously. Would have perhaps been a obviously. Would have perhaps been a less ideal candidate than DocSketch.

less ideal candidate than DocSketch. less ideal candidate than DocSketch. Yep. Yeah, I would have Yep. Yeah, I would have Yep. Yeah, I would have if I had a product like Drip, it would if I had a product like Drip, it would if I had a product like Drip, it would have been have been have been really tough to do a deal, I think, really tough to do a deal, I think, really tough to do a deal, I think, because it's because it's because it's you have to think of it the same way as you have to think of it the same way as you have to think of it the same way as doing freemium, right? Like doing freemium, right? Like doing freemium, right? Like you did you you did freemium, I think, you did you you did freemium, I think, you did you you did freemium, I think, after the acquisition, right? Yep. after the acquisition, right? Yep. after the acquisition, right? Yep. Because Because Because there's a lot to it if you can do there's a lot to it if you can do there's a lot to it if you can do freemium. freemium. freemium. was too expensive to do up front. Cool. was too expensive to do up front. Cool. was too expensive to do up front. Cool. So, then talk to me about So, then talk to me about So, then talk to me about preparing for 800,000 people to check preparing for 800,000 people to check preparing for 800,000 people to check check out your deal. How do you even check out your deal. How do you even check out your deal. How do you even mentally go about that? mentally go about that? mentally go about that? Yeah, that was Yeah, that was Yeah, that was um um um that was the list size of the list at that was the list size of the list at that was the list size of the list at the time, and I know that they trimmed the time, and I know that they trimmed the time, and I know that they trimmed the list and all that stuff, so I don't the list and all that stuff, so I don't the list and all that stuff, so I don't know, you know, if it's more now. But know, you know, if it's more now. But know, you know, if it's more now. But there's there's a lot of people checking there's there's a lot of people checking there's there's a lot of people checking out your deal, signing up, you know, out your deal, signing up, you know, out your deal, signing up, you know, looking for support. So, one of the looking for support. So, one of the looking for support. So, one of the things that I did was just research. things that I did was just research. things that I did was just research. Just, you know, it was a much bigger Just, you know, it was a much bigger Just, you know, it was a much bigger list than than I used to. So, I wanted list than than I used to. So, I wanted list than than I used to. So, I wanted to get a feel for what the deals were to get a feel for what the deals were to get a feel for what the deals were like, and I talked to other founders like, and I talked to other founders like, and I talked to other founders that had done deals. You introduced me that had done deals. You introduced me that had done deals. You introduced me to to somebody from Lead Pages to to somebody from Lead Pages to to somebody from Lead Pages who had done deal. I reached out to who had done deal. I reached out to who had done deal. I reached out to people in AppSumo Slack. They invite you people in AppSumo Slack. They invite you people in AppSumo Slack. They invite you to a Slack so you could just, you know, to a Slack so you could just, you know, to a Slack so you could just, you know, direct message people. And what I did direct message people. And what I did direct message people. And what I did was just look at SaaS tools that were was just look at SaaS tools that were was just look at SaaS tools that were kind of similar as as similar as they kind of similar as as similar as they kind of similar as as similar as they could be to, you know, to our tool. Uh could be to, you know, to our tool. Uh could be to, you know, to our tool. Uh cuz I figured that they might have a cuz I figured that they might have a cuz I figured that they might have a more similar experience that they could more similar experience that they could more similar experience that they could share. So, I learned a lot that way.

share. So, I learned a lot that way. share. So, I learned a lot that way. That was cool. And then I just looked at That was cool. And then I just looked at That was cool. And then I just looked at I asked the AppSumo team, "What are some I asked the AppSumo team, "What are some I asked the AppSumo team, "What are some deals that went really well?" Uh they deals that went really well?" Uh they deals that went really well?" Uh they gave me a like three and I just checked gave me a like three and I just checked gave me a like three and I just checked the comments, the reviews, like uh try the comments, the reviews, like uh try the comments, the reviews, like uh try to figure out what they were doing that to figure out what they were doing that to figure out what they were doing that was different than the other ones, was different than the other ones, was different than the other ones, compared them to the other ones. compared them to the other ones. compared them to the other ones. I found things like they were just more I found things like they were just more I found things like they were just more responsive. Their uh the answers to the responsive. Their uh the answers to the responsive. Their uh the answers to the questions and to the uh feature requests questions and to the uh feature requests questions and to the uh feature requests were better. were better. were better. Uh you know, so I just like stole a Uh you know, so I just like stole a Uh you know, so I just like stole a little bit from you know, little bit from you know, little bit from you know, uh what little bit of everything that I uh what little bit of everything that I uh what little bit of everything that I just liked so I was doing the research. just liked so I was doing the research. just liked so I was doing the research. The AppSumo community um does tend to The AppSumo community um does tend to The AppSumo community um does tend to favor certain things a lot too. Like um favor certain things a lot too. Like um favor certain things a lot too. Like um white labeling is a really big thing for white labeling is a really big thing for white labeling is a really big thing for them. them. them. And one person told me beforehand to And one person told me beforehand to And one person told me beforehand to um they open it up for a few days to um they open it up for a few days to um they open it up for a few days to people to uh customers, AppSumo people to uh customers, AppSumo people to uh customers, AppSumo customers that pay for like a special customers that pay for like a special customers that pay for like a special tier or something like that. And uh one tier or something like that. And uh one tier or something like that. And uh one of those uh people was really useful. of those uh people was really useful. of those uh people was really useful. She gave me um some links to Facebook She gave me um some links to Facebook She gave me um some links to Facebook groups. That was another thing that I groups. That was another thing that I groups. That was another thing that I did. Uh I I did. Uh I I did. Uh I I uh uh uh joined some Facebook groups of people joined some Facebook groups of people joined some Facebook groups of people that like to buy these deals and uh that like to buy these deals and uh that like to buy these deals and uh there there there there's several of them and they have a there's several of them and they have a there's several of them and they have a lot of people in there lot of people in there lot of people in there and they do talk and when your deal is and they do talk and when your deal is and they do talk and when your deal is going on, you want to go be in there going on, you want to go be in there going on, you want to go be in there answering questions and all that stuff.

answering questions and all that stuff. answering questions and all that stuff. Uh it's helpful because they do drive a Uh it's helpful because they do drive a Uh it's helpful because they do drive a lot of buys. Yeah. lot of buys. Yeah. lot of buys. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's not something I would Yeah. Yeah, that's not something I would Yeah. Yeah, that's not something I would have I would have thought about. I hired somebody part-time I hired somebody part-time for support for support for support because it was going to be a lot of a because it was going to be a lot of a because it was going to be a lot of a lot of support and we were still kind of lot of support and we were still kind of lot of support and we were still kind of is super early. We were building out is super early. We were building out is super early. We were building out features. features. features. Um in in digging up some of the like Um in in digging up some of the like Um in in digging up some of the like numbers and all that stuff for this um numbers and all that stuff for this um numbers and all that stuff for this um and looking at some of the comments I and looking at some of the comments I and looking at some of the comments I really There was something that I saw in really There was something that I saw in really There was something that I saw in there that there that there that I I didn't I was like, "What? Is this I I didn't I was like, "What? Is this I I didn't I was like, "What? Is this right?" Uh, right?" Uh, right?" Uh, it was, uh, that we were missing like it was, uh, that we were missing like it was, uh, that we were missing like the audit page feature. the audit page feature. the audit page feature. So, we were super basic at that point So, we were super basic at that point So, we were super basic at that point when we when we did the deal. Uh, and when we when we did the deal. Uh, and when we when we did the deal. Uh, and people were like, "They don't even have, people were like, "They don't even have, people were like, "They don't even have, uh, uh, uh, they don't even have like, you know, they don't even have like, you know, they don't even have like, you know, blah blah blah, this stuff." And I'm blah blah blah, this stuff." And I'm blah blah blah, this stuff." And I'm like, like, like, "That can't be right. What's my answer "That can't be right. What's my answer "That can't be right. What's my answer to that?" And I was just like, "Oh, it's to that?" And I was just like, "Oh, it's to that?" And I was just like, "Oh, it's coming, blah blah, you know." I was coming, blah blah, you know." I was coming, blah blah, you know." I was like, "Whoa, we didn't even have that." like, "Whoa, we didn't even have that." like, "Whoa, we didn't even have that." Um, Um, Um, but I was just kind of looking to see, but I was just kind of looking to see, but I was just kind of looking to see, uh, and trying to figure out like what uh, and trying to figure out like what uh, and trying to figure out like what are some of our answers going to be. Um, are some of our answers going to be. Um, are some of our answers going to be. Um, so I So, um, when the time came and I so I So, um, when the time came and I so I So, um, when the time came and I have all these different, um, questions have all these different, um, questions have all these different, um, questions to answer, I'm not trying to trying to to answer, I'm not trying to trying to to answer, I'm not trying to trying to think, uh, on the spot. You know, you think, uh, on the spot. You know, you think, uh, on the spot. You know, you have to do that a little bit, but I'm have to do that a little bit, but I'm have to do that a little bit, but I'm I'm basically better able to come up I'm basically better able to come up I'm basically better able to come up with with some answers that that, uh, with with some answers that that, uh, with with some answers that that, uh, people like. The first day I told the people like. The first day I told the people like. The first day I told the person, um, not to answer any of the person, um, not to answer any of the person, um, not to answer any of the questions, uh, at least for the first questions, uh, at least for the first questions, uh, at least for the first part of the day. And what I did was just part of the day. And what I did was just part of the day. And what I did was just go in there myself and answer to a whole go in there myself and answer to a whole go in there myself and answer to a whole bunch of questions because I didn't

bunch of questions because I didn't bunch of questions because I didn't really know exactly what they were going really know exactly what they were going really know exactly what they were going to ask. Uh, but that helped this person to ask. Uh, but that helped this person to ask. Uh, but that helped this person see how I was answering those questions. see how I was answering those questions. see how I was answering those questions. And then I just told her like, "Hey, And then I just told her like, "Hey, And then I just told her like, "Hey, when you feel comfortable and you when when you feel comfortable and you when when you feel comfortable and you when you see when how I'm answering, go ahead you see when how I'm answering, go ahead you see when how I'm answering, go ahead and start answering some of those and start answering some of those and start answering some of those questions." Then I just took a bunch of questions." Then I just took a bunch of questions." Then I just took a bunch of those questions, put them in a Google those questions, put them in a Google those questions, put them in a Google Doc, nothing fancy, just copy and paste, Doc, nothing fancy, just copy and paste, Doc, nothing fancy, just copy and paste, with my answers, and then did like a with my answers, and then did like a with my answers, and then did like a really quick like FAQ, and added to it. really quick like FAQ, and added to it. really quick like FAQ, and added to it. And, uh, over the next couple of days And, uh, over the next couple of days And, uh, over the next couple of days after that, she was just able to answer, after that, she was just able to answer, after that, she was just able to answer, you know, most of the questions, almost you know, most of the questions, almost you know, most of the questions, almost all of them. all of them. all of them. Um, I still went in there and and, you Um, I still went in there and and, you Um, I still went in there and and, you know, know, know, uh, answered questions myself. So, that uh, answered questions myself. So, that uh, answered questions myself. So, that was that was one thing. The other thing was that was one thing. The other thing was that was one thing. The other thing for the support stuff is that a lot of for the support stuff is that a lot of for the support stuff is that a lot of people worry that they'll do a deal and, people worry that they'll do a deal and, people worry that they'll do a deal and, um, they'll get support and it'll just um, they'll get support and it'll just um, they'll get support and it'll just be never never ending, right? And so, be never never ending, right? And so, be never never ending, right? And so, you can see here on the Yeah, yeah, you you can see here on the Yeah, yeah, you you can see here on the Yeah, yeah, you can see here the definitely there was a can see here the definitely there was a can see here the definitely there was a big spike, but then big spike, but then big spike, but then after the deal, like it just goes down after the deal, like it just goes down after the deal, like it just goes down and there's definitely more support and there's definitely more support and there's definitely more support before after than before. That's because before after than before. That's because before after than before. That's because we weren't, you know, we weren't we weren't, you know, we weren't we weren't, you know, we weren't launched yet before. Uh but it's nothing launched yet before. Uh but it's nothing launched yet before. Uh but it's nothing crazy. It's completely manageable.

crazy. It's completely manageable. crazy. It's completely manageable. Um Um Um but it does go back to I think one of but it does go back to I think one of but it does go back to I think one of the things that I that I hadn't when I the things that I that I hadn't when I the things that I that I hadn't when I talk when I spoken to people before talk when I spoken to people before talk when I spoken to people before about doing the AppSumo deal that I about doing the AppSumo deal that I about doing the AppSumo deal that I hadn't until recently thought too much hadn't until recently thought too much hadn't until recently thought too much about was like the mindset part of it. about was like the mindset part of it. about was like the mindset part of it. Not until somebody who's thinking about Not until somebody who's thinking about Not until somebody who's thinking about doing the deal um doing the deal um doing the deal um uh sort of brought up as a factor for them. sort of brought up as a factor for them. And basically And basically And basically if you're going to have if you're going to have if you're going to have if if mentally you have a tough time if if mentally you have a tough time if if mentally you have a tough time with somebody, let's say 2 years later, with somebody, let's say 2 years later, with somebody, let's say 2 years later, still using the product and sending in still using the product and sending in still using the product and sending in support support support then you're going to have tough time then you're going to have tough time then you're going to have tough time with this. Um as long as you're thinking with this. Um as long as you're thinking with this. Um as long as you're thinking it's going to bother you it's going to bother you it's going to bother you It's going to be a nagging thing of like It's going to be a nagging thing of like It's going to be a nagging thing of like you see an AppSumo or you see a support you see an AppSumo or you see a support you see an AppSumo or you see a support request come in, you know they're an request come in, you know they're an request come in, you know they're an AppSumo customer by whatever means. AppSumo customer by whatever means. AppSumo customer by whatever means. And you're saying if that's going to And you're saying if that's going to And you're saying if that's going to bother you every time you see it, maybe bother you every time you see it, maybe bother you every time you see it, maybe it's not maybe it's not worth doing, it's not maybe it's not worth doing, it's not maybe it's not worth doing, right? Cuz you get life's too short. right? Cuz you get life's too short. right? Cuz you get life's too short. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um as long as you frame it right, Um as long as you frame it right, Um as long as you frame it right, whenever I see that coming in, it's like whenever I see that coming in, it's like whenever I see that coming in, it's like okay, these are people who are okay, these are people who are okay, these are people who are incentivized to recommend us to they're incentivized to recommend us to they're incentivized to recommend us to they're using the product, they're exposing using the product, they're exposing using the product, they're exposing other people to the product.

other people to the product. other people to the product. Uh so I I'm totally okay with it and I Uh so I I'm totally okay with it and I Uh so I I'm totally okay with it and I don't have a problem with that. don't have a problem with that. don't have a problem with that. Right? And again, I think of them as Right? And again, I think of them as Right? And again, I think of them as free same as free you users. free same as free you users. free same as free you users. Right. And that is something that we Right. And that is something that we Right. And that is something that we didn't call out earlier, but you do have didn't call out earlier, but you do have didn't call out earlier, but you do have that or you called it out, but I didn't that or you called it out, but I didn't that or you called it out, but I didn't call it out specifically is you do have call it out specifically is you do have call it out specifically is you do have that viral component where your that viral component where your that viral component where your electronic signature so every person electronic signature so every person electronic signature so every person that uses it, whether they're free or that uses it, whether they're free or that uses it, whether they're free or not or only paid once, they are if not or only paid once, they are if not or only paid once, they are if they're using it, they're sending out they're using it, they're sending out they're using it, they're sending out these document requests. And so other these document requests. And so other these document requests. And so other people are being exposed and that can people are being exposed and that can people are being exposed and that can spread the word and that's a another spread the word and that's a another spread the word and that's a another thing you can thing you can thing you can a way of thinking about it. I know a way of thinking about it. I know a way of thinking about it. I know somebody that has a product that's very somebody that has a product that's very somebody that has a product that's very similar that has a viral component similar that has a viral component similar that has a viral component um um um and they did a deal uh a while back and and they did a deal uh a while back and and they did a deal uh a while back and they regret it they regret it they regret it because they think of it because it just because they think of it because it just because they think of it because it just they think of it differently and it bugs they think of it differently and it bugs they think of it differently and it bugs them. Reviews are really important. You start Reviews are really important. You start to get uh reviews on the AppSumo page to get uh reviews on the AppSumo page to get uh reviews on the AppSumo page and other people look at those to sort and other people look at those to sort and other people look at those to sort of the decide whether or not they're of the decide whether or not they're of the decide whether or not they're going to buy just like anything, right?

going to buy just like anything, right? going to buy just like anything, right? And we basically had to help make those we basically had to help make those reviews better. We had an automation uh reviews better. We had an automation uh reviews better. We had an automation uh on day two on day two on day two um for anybody that um for anybody that um for anybody that that uh had an AppSumo coupon that they that uh had an AppSumo coupon that they that uh had an AppSumo coupon that they redeemed in their account on on the redeemed in their account on on the redeemed in their account on on the second day we sent out an email that second day we sent out an email that second day we sent out an email that basically just said that basically just said that basically just said that you know, we're a small team out of you know, we're a small team out of you know, we're a small team out of Portland, Oregon. We're uh excited about Portland, Oregon. We're uh excited about Portland, Oregon. We're uh excited about uh you know, them signing up, improving uh you know, them signing up, improving uh you know, them signing up, improving the product for them and one of the ways the product for them and one of the ways the product for them and one of the ways they can help make the product better is they can help make the product better is they can help make the product better is by helping us grow by helping us grow by helping us grow uh and uh one of the ways that that uh and uh one of the ways that that uh and uh one of the ways that that happens is, you know, they basically happens is, you know, they basically happens is, you know, they basically just uh help us with reviews on on just uh help us with reviews on on just uh help us with reviews on on AppSumo. So, uh we did that and that AppSumo. So, uh we did that and that AppSumo. So, uh we did that and that helped move that score up there. We did helped move that score up there. We did helped move that score up there. We did that for not the entire time, but we did that for not the entire time, but we did that for not the entire time, but we did that for a little bit and I wanted to that for a little bit and I wanted to that for a little bit and I wanted to use use use uh uh uh you know you know you know like they're most excited, the people like they're most excited, the people like they're most excited, the people that are buying this deal right when that are buying this deal right when that are buying this deal right when they sign up. So, I wanted to you to they sign up. So, I wanted to you to they sign up. So, I wanted to you to like use that to also help us on the like use that to also help us on the like use that to also help us on the review on other review sites, not just review on other review sites, not just review on other review sites, not just AppSumo. So, uh like Capterra, G2 Crowd AppSumo. So, uh like Capterra, G2 Crowd AppSumo. So, uh like Capterra, G2 Crowd um um um just change the link and change a little just change the link and change a little just change the link and change a little bit of the wording uh after after like a bit of the wording uh after after like a bit of the wording uh after after like a few days and had them sort of like go few days and had them sort of like go few days and had them sort of like go back and forth between the different back and forth between the different back and forth between the different sites and contribute reviews there, sites and contribute reviews there, sites and contribute reviews there, which has been really helpful for us.

The revenue was 41,145 The revenue was 41,145 from this. from this. from this. Uh almost 2,800 buys. So, 2,799 Uh almost 2,800 buys. So, 2,799 Uh almost 2,800 buys. So, 2,799 people bought. And uh interestingly people bought. And uh interestingly people bought. And uh interestingly enough, there were enough, there were enough, there were 292 refunds. Uh so, two the 2,800 number 292 refunds. Uh so, two the 2,800 number 292 refunds. Uh so, two the 2,800 number is after the refunds, right? is after the refunds, right? is after the refunds, right? Um Um Um Hm. So, it was like 30 3,100 Hm. So, it was like 30 3,100 Hm. So, it was like 30 3,100 total buys, is that right? total buys, is that right? total buys, is that right? Yep. Yep. Yep. Or Oh, wow. Okay. Or Oh, wow. Okay. Or Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And And And so, that's A, 41,000 is always For some so, that's A, 41,000 is always For some so, that's A, 41,000 is always For some reason, I always think you made like 32 reason, I always think you made like 32 reason, I always think you made like 32 or 35. I don't know what that number is or 35. I don't know what that number is or 35. I don't know what that number is in my head, but in my head, but in my head, but so, too. I I've actually said that, but so, too. I I've actually said that, but so, too. I I've actually said that, but then then then I dug up the numbers and it was 41,000. I dug up the numbers and it was 41,000. I dug up the numbers and it was 41,000. It's 40 grand. I mean, that's not It's 40 grand. I mean, that's not It's 40 grand. I mean, that's not Yeah, that's not a That's not a bad take Yeah, that's not a That's not a bad take Yeah, that's not a That's not a bad take for this. Um for this. Um for this. Um and so, why do you think I mean, that's and so, why do you think I mean, that's and so, why do you think I mean, that's like 10% 10% refunds? Do you know if like 10% 10% refunds? Do you know if like 10% 10% refunds? Do you know if that's normal? that's normal? that's normal? I think it's kind of it's kind of I think it's kind of it's kind of I think it's kind of it's kind of normal. Um I think it's also a little normal. Um I think it's also a little normal. Um I think it's also a little bit high. bit high. bit high. Um I think it's normal to to see a Um I think it's normal to to see a Um I think it's normal to to see a higher higher higher That's the way that I'd say it. It's a That's the way that I'd say it. It's a That's the way that I'd say it. It's a normal to see a higher refund rate than normal to see a higher refund rate than normal to see a higher refund rate than what you would normally expect from what you would normally expect from what you would normally expect from people who, you know, buy your product people who, you know, buy your product people who, you know, buy your product because a lot of people just want to um because a lot of people just want to um because a lot of people just want to um they'll buy without even really they'll buy without even really they'll buy without even really evaluating your product.

evaluating your product. evaluating your product. Right. Right. Right. They'll buy and then they log in and They'll buy and then they log in and They'll buy and then they log in and then then then Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, we had a couple things that were And so, we had a couple things that were And so, we had a couple things that were confusing people. Some people thought confusing people. Some people thought confusing people. Some people thought that we were like a contract generation that we were like a contract generation that we were like a contract generation sort of tool. sort of tool. sort of tool. Hm. Hm. Hm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh and that was just some of the wording Uh and that was just some of the wording Uh and that was just some of the wording uh just seeing the link on our nav that uh just seeing the link on our nav that uh just seeing the link on our nav that just said contract templates. So, some just said contract templates. So, some just said contract templates. So, some people would go there and be like, "Oh, people would go there and be like, "Oh, people would go there and be like, "Oh, okay, they offer contracts." okay, they offer contracts." okay, they offer contracts." Um Um Um and some of the wording on one of the and some of the wording on one of the and some of the wording on one of the first emails that went out to the app, first emails that went out to the app, first emails that went out to the app, which, you know, and on the landing which, you know, and on the landing which, you know, and on the landing page. We changed that to clarify. So, I page. We changed that to clarify. So, I page. We changed that to clarify. So, I think uh that was partly causing that. think uh that was partly causing that. think uh that was partly causing that. Also, we were just super early. Right? Also, we were just super early. Right? Also, we were just super early. Right? We didn't have some of the basic We didn't have some of the basic We didn't have some of the basic features. So, features. So, features. So, yeah, I I think um people can expect yeah, I I think um people can expect yeah, I I think um people can expect uh uh uh some refunds, but maybe not this many. some refunds, but maybe not this many. some refunds, but maybe not this many. Yep. Very cool. And so, I think in Yep. Very cool. And so, I think in Yep. Very cool. And so, I think in conclusion, conclusion, conclusion, yay or nay? Like, are you happy? Do you yay or nay? Like, are you happy? Do you yay or nay? Like, are you happy? Do you have regrets? You got your money out of have regrets? You got your money out of have regrets? You got your money out of the deal? the deal? the deal? No, it's No, it's No, it's uh uh uh I'm really happy that we did the deal. I'm really happy that we did the deal. I'm really happy that we did the deal. It helped uh you know, on several It helped uh you know, on several It helped uh you know, on several fronts. Like, a little bit of revenue, fronts. Like, a little bit of revenue, fronts. Like, a little bit of revenue, it helped uh on the marketing side, just it helped uh on the marketing side, just it helped uh on the marketing side, just exposure, uh customer development, um exposure, uh customer development, um exposure, uh customer development, um really on on really on on really on on we and we earned uh we got some big we and we earned uh we got some big we and we earned uh we got some big bigger deals that we wouldn't have, I bigger deals that we wouldn't have, I bigger deals that we wouldn't have, I know for sure we wouldn't have gotten if know for sure we wouldn't have gotten if know for sure we wouldn't have gotten if we uh outside of this, just bigger teams we uh outside of this, just bigger teams we uh outside of this, just bigger teams uh signing up. So, it's super useful.

uh signing up. So, it's super useful. uh signing up. So, it's super useful. Very cool. I know AppSumo and again, Very cool. I know AppSumo and again, Very cool. I know AppSumo and again, we're not saying you should do an we're not saying you should do an we're not saying you should do an AppSumo deal, but obviously it worked AppSumo deal, but obviously it worked AppSumo deal, but obviously it worked for you and we try to point out some for you and we try to point out some for you and we try to point out some pros and cons if some folks out there pros and cons if some folks out there pros and cons if some folks out there maybe maybe shouldn't do it. I know maybe maybe shouldn't do it. I know maybe maybe shouldn't do it. I know AppSumo is is booked out several months AppSumo is is booked out several months AppSumo is is booked out several months uh cuz I know a couple other people uh cuz I know a couple other people uh cuz I know a couple other people still talking, you know, also talking to still talking, you know, also talking to still talking, you know, also talking to them about deals. Um but certainly easy them about deals. Um but certainly easy them about deals. Um but certainly easy enough to to reach out to AppSumo if enough to to reach out to AppSumo if enough to to reach out to AppSumo if you feel like this if you're watching you feel like this if you're watching you feel like this if you're watching this and feel like it's of interest. this and feel like it's of interest. this and feel like it's of interest. Ruben, man, thanks so much for coming on Ruben, man, thanks so much for coming on Ruben, man, thanks so much for coming on the show and uh you know, sharing your the show and uh you know, sharing your the show and uh you know, sharing your knowledge, dropping the wisdom, and knowledge, dropping the wisdom, and knowledge, dropping the wisdom, and sharing all the numbers. I'm sure there sharing all the numbers. I'm sure there sharing all the numbers. I'm sure there are some folks in the uh in the audience are some folks in the uh in the audience are some folks in the uh in the audience here today that will get a lot of value here today that will get a lot of value here today that will get a lot of value out of it. out of it. out of it. Cool. Uh happy to share. Thank you. Cool. Uh happy to share. Thank you. Cool. Uh happy to share. Thank you. Thanks again to Ruben for uh for joining Thanks again to Ruben for uh for joining Thanks again to Ruben for uh for joining us today. And if you have any questions us today. And if you have any questions us today. And if you have any questions for me um about Ruben's AppSumo deal or for me um about Ruben's AppSumo deal or for me um about Ruben's AppSumo deal or any of the numbers or thinking through any of the numbers or thinking through any of the numbers or thinking through it, you can, you know, post it. I'm I'm it, you can, you know, post it. I'm I'm it, you can, you know, post it. I'm I'm looking at the MicroConf Remote channel looking at the MicroConf Remote channel looking at the MicroConf Remote channel over here in Slack. Um is it is it bad over here in Slack. Um is it is it bad over here in Slack. Um is it is it bad that I that I that I kind of wanted producer Xander to run kind of wanted producer Xander to run kind of wanted producer Xander to run that video at 1.5x? I really Here's is I that video at 1.5x? I really Here's is I that video at 1.5x? I really Here's is I want to do. I want to do like a virtual want to do. I want to do like a virtual want to do. I want to do like a virtual summit, and I want to call it the 1.5 x summit, and I want to call it the 1.5 x summit, and I want to call it the 1.5 x summit because if you're going to have summit because if you're going to have summit because if you're going to have some pre-recorded again, I I'm I'm some pre-recorded again, I I'm I'm some pre-recorded again, I I'm I'm poking a little fun at some of the other poking a little fun at some of the other poking a little fun at some of the other summits I've been part of, but if you're summits I've been part of, but if you're summits I've been part of, but if you're going to have pre-recorded anyways, why going to have pre-recorded anyways, why going to have pre-recorded anyways, why not get a little more information per not get a little more information per not get a little more information per minute?

minute? minute? So, So, So, if there are no questions, then I will if there are no questions, then I will if there are no questions, then I will torture you with jokes and force you to torture you with jokes and force you to torture you with jokes and force you to ask questions. So, one joke example, why ask questions. So, one joke example, why ask questions. So, one joke example, why shouldn't you take a broken spear into a shouldn't you take a broken spear into a shouldn't you take a broken spear into a fight? fight? fight? It's pointless. It's pointless. It's pointless. Yep. That That's about as good as it Yep. That That's about as good as it Yep. That That's about as good as it gets there, y'all. Um gets there, y'all. Um gets there, y'all. Um Can you imagine if one day Microsoft Can you imagine if one day Microsoft Can you imagine if one day Microsoft acquired WeWork and named it Microsoft acquired WeWork and named it Microsoft acquired WeWork and named it Microsoft Office? Office? Office? I think Mike may have invented that one. I think Mike may have invented that one. I think Mike may have invented that one. Okay. Oh, look, this is great. We have a Okay. Oh, look, this is great. We have a Okay. Oh, look, this is great. We have a question. Someone Someone says, "I give question. Someone Someone says, "I give question. Someone Someone says, "I give up." So, deep asks, "Are AppSumo deals up." So, deep asks, "Are AppSumo deals up." So, deep asks, "Are AppSumo deals good for B2C apps, too?" good for B2C apps, too?" good for B2C apps, too?" And yeah, if you look The cool part is And yeah, if you look The cool part is And yeah, if you look The cool part is you can go to appsumo.com and you can you can go to appsumo.com and you can you can go to appsumo.com and you can sift through sift through sift through all the deals. They don't just have one all the deals. They don't just have one all the deals. They don't just have one deal. It used to be an exclusive kind of deal. It used to be an exclusive kind of deal. It used to be an exclusive kind of deal-a-day type thing, deal-a-day type thing, deal-a-day type thing, uh but now they have a whole marketplace uh but now they have a whole marketplace uh but now they have a whole marketplace of them. of them. of them. And you can flip through And you can flip through And you can flip through and and you know, their list is is and and you know, their list is is and and you know, their list is is it's aspiring entrepreneurs and it's it's aspiring entrepreneurs and it's it's aspiring entrepreneurs and it's like Ruben said, it's people who run like Ruben said, it's people who run like Ruben said, it's people who run you know, who are realtors. So, like you know, who are realtors. So, like you know, who are realtors. So, like very VSMBs, like very small businesses, very VSMBs, like very small businesses, very VSMBs, like very small businesses, very small to medium businesses.

very small to medium businesses. very small to medium businesses. Um Um Um And so, there I there are folks who, you And so, there I there are folks who, you And so, there I there are folks who, you know, to-do list apps or things that know, to-do list apps or things that know, to-do list apps or things that would normally be thought of as kind of would normally be thought of as kind of would normally be thought of as kind of really broad B2C that I think can work really broad B2C that I think can work really broad B2C that I think can work there. there. there. Um I think if you have Um I think if you have Um I think if you have a B2C app that's also in a niche, I a B2C app that's also in a niche, I a B2C app that's also in a niche, I think that's tougher sell, but the best think that's tougher sell, but the best think that's tougher sell, but the best thing to do is to reach out to AppSumo. thing to do is to reach out to AppSumo. thing to do is to reach out to AppSumo. Like they have staff there who can Like they have staff there who can Like they have staff there who can evaluate and they've been doing this now evaluate and they've been doing this now evaluate and they've been doing this now for for for I think the first AppSumo deal was it I think the first AppSumo deal was it I think the first AppSumo deal was it had to be 10 years ago cuz I remember had to be 10 years ago cuz I remember had to be 10 years ago cuz I remember it. So, Noah Kagan found started this it. So, Noah Kagan found started this it. So, Noah Kagan found started this and and and um the first AppSumo deal we listed in um the first AppSumo deal we listed in um the first AppSumo deal we listed in in our online membership site. At the in our online membership site. At the in our online membership site. At the time, it was called Micropreneur time, it was called Micropreneur time, it was called Micropreneur Academy. And I think like 20% or 25% of Academy. And I think like 20% or 25% of Academy. And I think like 20% or 25% of the purchases came from from our our the purchases came from from our our the purchases came from from our our listener base or I'm sorry, our listener base or I'm sorry, our listener base or I'm sorry, our membership base. membership base. membership base. Which was really the precursor of Which was really the precursor of Which was really the precursor of MicroConf itself. MicroConf itself. MicroConf itself. And so he and I got on the phone early And so he and I got on the phone early And so he and I got on the phone early on and that had to have been, you know, on and that had to have been, you know, on and that had to have been, you know, probably a decade ago or so. probably a decade ago or so. probably a decade ago or so. Justin Kistner asks, are there ways to Justin Kistner asks, are there ways to Justin Kistner asks, are there ways to limit the downside risk of a lifetime limit the downside risk of a lifetime limit the downside risk of a lifetime subscription? subscription? subscription? I mean, yes, there are. There's there's I mean, yes, there are. There's there's I mean, yes, there are. There's there's a real there's a needle you have to a real there's a needle you have to a real there's a needle you have to thread here because you can't just like thread here because you can't just like thread here because you can't just like the AppSumo both AppSumo folks who work the AppSumo both AppSumo folks who work the AppSumo both AppSumo folks who work there um and we're actually going to there um and we're actually going to there um and we're actually going to hear from from Chris in a minute. He's hear from from Chris in a minute. He's hear from from Chris in a minute. He's he he works at AppSumo and he's going to he he works at AppSumo and he's going to he he works at AppSumo and he's going to talk us through some of the nuances of talk us through some of the nuances of talk us through some of the nuances of this. But this. But this. But there's both the folks who work at there's both the folks who work at there's both the folks who work at AppSumo and also the people who are AppSumo and also the people who are AppSumo and also the people who are buying the deals are are they're pretty buying the deals are are they're pretty buying the deals are are they're pretty savvy, right? And they know they've seen savvy, right? And they know they've seen savvy, right? And they know they've seen people try to kind of get around to people try to kind of get around to people try to kind of get around to skirt around it and be like, well, this skirt around it and be like, well, this skirt around it and be like, well, this is the AppSumo plan and we're not going is the AppSumo plan and we're not going is the AppSumo plan and we're not going to add any new features to the AppSumo to add any new features to the AppSumo to add any new features to the AppSumo plan. And that's not going to fly cuz plan. And that's not going to fly cuz plan. And that's not going to fly cuz you're going to make people mad. Or um

you're going to make people mad. Or um you're going to make people mad. Or um we're going to like severely limit this, we're going to like severely limit this, we're going to like severely limit this, you know, this plan to where the the app you know, this plan to where the the app you know, this plan to where the the app is not almost not usable. So I don't is not almost not usable. So I don't is not almost not usable. So I don't think you want to go down that road. I think you want to go down that road. I think you want to go down that road. I think the thing to think about is if you think the thing to think about is if you think the thing to think about is if you do have any type of viral component or do have any type of viral component or do have any type of viral component or if you can build that in a powered by if you can build that in a powered by if you can build that in a powered by link, anything like that um to have into link, anything like that um to have into link, anything like that um to have into your lower price plans in your AppSumo your lower price plans in your AppSumo your lower price plans in your AppSumo deal, I think that's a big win. I think deal, I think that's a big win. I think deal, I think that's a big win. I think uh if you if your app by its nature does uh if you if your app by its nature does uh if you if your app by its nature does have um have um have um a cost with each new person that signs a cost with each new person that signs a cost with each new person that signs up, up, up, that's probably that's a pretty tough that's probably that's a pretty tough that's probably that's a pretty tough sell for me, you know? I I just don't sell for me, you know? I I just don't sell for me, you know? I I just don't know that there's a way to work around know that there's a way to work around know that there's a way to work around that. As Ruben said and as I've I've that. As Ruben said and as I've I've that. As Ruben said and as I've I've heard from a few other folks who who've heard from a few other folks who who've heard from a few other folks who who've done these deals is there is a lot of done these deals is there is a lot of done these deals is there is a lot of support up front for the month and maybe support up front for the month and maybe support up front for the month and maybe for a week or two after and then it it for a week or two after and then it it for a week or two after and then it it really does die down. So unless you feel really does die down. So unless you feel really does die down. So unless you feel like A, you're going to cannibalize a like A, you're going to cannibalize a like A, you're going to cannibalize a lot of your revenue or B, there's going lot of your revenue or B, there's going lot of your revenue or B, there's going to be a lot of either ongoing support or to be a lot of either ongoing support or to be a lot of either ongoing support or cost, I I do think this is something cost, I I do think this is something cost, I I do think this is something that's um you know, it it it it can work that's um you know, it it it it can work that's um you know, it it it it can work for a lot of apps that are in that for a lot of apps that are in that for a lot of apps that are in that position. position. position. Uh looks like there's one more person Uh looks like there's one more person Uh looks like there's one more person typing and then so I'm going to talk a typing and then so I'm going to talk a typing and then so I'm going to talk a little bit little bit little bit about Oh, yeah. So after about Oh, yeah. So after about Oh, yeah. So after um um um Oh, there'll be some Let's see.

Oh, there'll be some Let's see. Oh, there'll be some Let's see. Microspace conversations in pods A and Microspace conversations in pods A and Microspace conversations in pods A and B. B. B. Pod A is going to have your most Pod A is going to have your most Pod A is going to have your most successful marketing campaign. And pod B successful marketing campaign. And pod B successful marketing campaign. And pod B is share your SaaS. Use the screen share is share your SaaS. Use the screen share is share your SaaS. Use the screen share function to give a short demo of your function to give a short demo of your function to give a short demo of your product. And so, as as we wrap up here, product. And so, as as we wrap up here, product. And so, as as we wrap up here, there's there's an optional session with there's there's an optional session with there's there's an optional session with I'm about to intro him Chris Scheltema. I'm about to intro him Chris Scheltema. I'm about to intro him Chris Scheltema. And I believe Gennady Batrakov is And I believe Gennady Batrakov is And I believe Gennady Batrakov is supposed to join him as well. He's a supposed to join him as well. He's a supposed to join him as well. He's a founder of Blogely. And Chris works for founder of Blogely. And Chris works for founder of Blogely. And Chris works for AppSumo. So, he's going to have a AppSumo. So, he's going to have a AppSumo. So, he's going to have a conversation behind the scenes conversation behind the scenes conversation behind the scenes conversation about AppSumo and how it conversation about AppSumo and how it conversation about AppSumo and how it works, showcase the platform. And works, showcase the platform. And works, showcase the platform. And that'll be here, you know, it'll stream that'll be here, you know, it'll stream that'll be here, you know, it'll stream on YouTube even if you don't have the on YouTube even if you don't have the on YouTube even if you don't have the all access. all access. all access. You'll see that in just a minute. You'll see that in just a minute. You'll see that in just a minute. Yeah, cool. And then John Golding from Yeah, cool. And then John Golding from Yeah, cool. And then John Golding from trot.to, he posted he said there's also trot.to, he posted he said there's also trot.to, he posted he said there's also a good startup so the rest of this a good startup so the rest of this a good startup so the rest of this episode where Reuben Rob talked to episode where Reuben Rob talked to episode where Reuben Rob talked to Reuben about the deal. It's episode 456. Reuben about the deal. It's episode 456. Reuben about the deal. It's episode 456. Um Um Um And so, And so, And so, that's something you can also dig into that's something you can also dig into that's something you can also dig into if you want to hear more. if you want to hear more. if you want to hear more. All right. What did users All right. What did users All right. What did users get Okay, yeah. So, there's some get Okay, yeah. So, there's some get Okay, yeah. So, there's some questions producers Andrew's passing me.

questions producers Andrew's passing me. questions producers Andrew's passing me. What did users get in the deal? Was it What did users get in the deal? Was it What did users get in the deal? Was it for a fixed period of time? So, with for a fixed period of time? So, with for a fixed period of time? So, with with I believe most AppSumo deals now with I believe most AppSumo deals now with I believe most AppSumo deals now are lifetime deals. And the users got a are lifetime deals. And the users got a are lifetime deals. And the users got a lifetime you know, the cheapest plan lifetime you know, the cheapest plan lifetime you know, the cheapest plan pricing tier pricing tier pricing tier of of Doc Sketch I believe is what it of of Doc Sketch I believe is what it of of Doc Sketch I believe is what it was. was. was. And then Trevor asked, "What percentage And then Trevor asked, "What percentage And then Trevor asked, "What percentage of people became active users versus of people became active users versus of people became active users versus unused accounts? Thinking about services unused accounts? Thinking about services unused accounts? Thinking about services you pay for and how the cost ratio plays you pay for and how the cost ratio plays you pay for and how the cost ratio plays out with active inactive AppSumo users." out with active inactive AppSumo users." out with active inactive AppSumo users." I don't actually know that number to be I don't actually know that number to be I don't actually know that number to be honest. I was tossing this around honest. I was tossing this around honest. I was tossing this around hypothetically with another founder the hypothetically with another founder the hypothetically with another founder the other day who's evaluating whether or other day who's evaluating whether or other day who's evaluating whether or not to do one. not to do one. not to do one. And I was guessing I was like, "I think And I was guessing I was like, "I think And I was guessing I was like, "I think on the low end you're probably get 20 to on the low end you're probably get 20 to on the low end you're probably get 20 to to to to active. And on the very high end it active. And on the very high end it active. And on the very high end it feels to me like it's maybe a 60 feels to me like it's maybe a 60 feels to me like it's maybe a 60 you know, 60% like I can't imagine more you know, 60% like I can't imagine more you know, 60% like I can't imagine more than 60 70% of AppSumo deals actually than 60 70% of AppSumo deals actually than 60 70% of AppSumo deals actually becoming active. I mean, how many becoming active. I mean, how many becoming active. I mean, how many AppSumo deals do I have that I've I've AppSumo deals do I have that I've I've AppSumo deals do I have that I've I've activated so that the activated so that the activated so that the the um the um the um coupon code or whatever, you know, the coupon code or whatever, you know, the coupon code or whatever, you know, the AppSumo code works and I get it and then AppSumo code works and I get it and then AppSumo code works and I get it and then I just I haven't actually used it. So, I I just I haven't actually used it. So, I I just I haven't actually used it. So, I know I'm I'm one of those folks who's know I'm I'm one of those folks who's know I'm I'm one of those folks who's who's guilty about that.

who's guilty about that. who's guilty about that. What is small too early or too pre What is small too early or too pre What is small too early or too pre product market fit for this approach? product market fit for this approach? product market fit for this approach? What is too small too early? What is too small too early? What is too small too early? That's I mean, that's a good question That's I mean, that's a good question That's I mean, that's a good question for Chris who's about to come on to be for Chris who's about to come on to be for Chris who's about to come on to be honest. Um but in my opinion, yeah, if honest. Um but in my opinion, yeah, if honest. Um but in my opinion, yeah, if you don't have some people using your you don't have some people using your you don't have some people using your Like if you have zero users, I would not Like if you have zero users, I would not Like if you have zero users, I would not go to an AppSumo deal because you're go to an AppSumo deal because you're go to an AppSumo deal because you're going to run into scaling issues really going to run into scaling issues really going to run into scaling issues really quickly. Um I would want to be at a quickly. Um I would want to be at a quickly. Um I would want to be at a minimum in early access and frankly they minimum in early access and frankly they minimum in early access and frankly they they like you to be launched. Like they they like you to be launched. Like they they like you to be launched. Like they don't want you to be uh don't want you to be uh don't want you to be uh what's it called? Just under, you know, what's it called? Just under, you know, what's it called? Just under, you know, any any mail and get an invite. Like any any mail and get an invite. Like any any mail and get an invite. Like invite They don't want you in invite invite They don't want you in invite invite They don't want you in invite only mode um to be to be running with only mode um to be to be running with only mode um to be to be running with this. So, this. So, this. So, All right. Uh Cool. Cool. Did you allow AppSumo to bid Cool. Cool. Did you allow AppSumo to bid on your branded keywords for ad spend? on your branded keywords for ad spend? on your branded keywords for ad spend? Also, did you have them no index the Also, did you have them no index the Also, did you have them no index the deal page? We're launching in April 8th. deal page? We're launching in April 8th. deal page? We're launching in April 8th. We're launching April 8th. Um We're launching April 8th. Um We're launching April 8th. Um I don't actually know about that. That's I don't actually know about that. That's I don't actually know about that. That's an interesting question. And I think an interesting question. And I think an interesting question. And I think that maybe maybe that's one that you can that maybe maybe that's one that you can that maybe maybe that's one that you can ask Chris if that's a common thing ask Chris if that's a common thing ask Chris if that's a common thing because I haven't um you know, the because I haven't um you know, the because I haven't um you know, the AppSumo deal runs for a matter of weeks, AppSumo deal runs for a matter of weeks, AppSumo deal runs for a matter of weeks, right? It's like three or four weeks.

right? It's like three or four weeks. right? It's like three or four weeks. So, I guess they could bid on the So, I guess they could bid on the So, I guess they could bid on the branded term during that time, but to me branded term during that time, but to me branded term during that time, but to me it's all it's all a negotiation, right? it's all it's all a negotiation, right? it's all it's all a negotiation, right? It's saying, "Hey, I want to include It's saying, "Hey, I want to include It's saying, "Hey, I want to include this in in the the contract." Or else this in in the the contract." Or else this in in the the contract." Or else figure out what's a deal breaker for you figure out what's a deal breaker for you figure out what's a deal breaker for you and and talk to them about it.